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Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff you should know, a production of iHeartRadio.

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Speaker 2: Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh and there's

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Speaker 2: Chuck and we're just goose stepping to Jerry's orders like

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Speaker 2: usual here on stuff you should do. Oh no, no, no,

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Speaker 2: thank you. I'm glad you cleared that up for the

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Speaker 2: new listeners who are like, oh, these guys are Nazis.

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Speaker 2: They hadn't realized.

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Speaker 1: No, this is I really enjoyed studying this one because I,

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Speaker 1: as you know, am not the biggest student of war,

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Speaker 1: so I never like sat around and watched the History Channel,

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Speaker 1: and this one is very much a History Channel type

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Speaker 1: of episode. So I feel like I have a much

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Speaker 1: better understanding of the lead up to World War Two.

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Speaker 1: And also it's amazing how much this reflects modern times

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Speaker 1: and what's going on with Russia and Ukraine for real,

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Speaker 1: for real, I kept going like, oh, oh, oh.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean it's there's a very clear line you

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Speaker 2: can draw between what the Allies did to a peace

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Speaker 2: Hitler and what a lot of people are concerned that

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Speaker 2: the West is doing to appease Putin right now. And

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Speaker 2: you can also see, though, I think there's another lesson

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Speaker 2: to be learned too, where once you kind of understand

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Speaker 2: what the Allies did pre World War Two, why they

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Speaker 2: were trying to appease Hitler, which in retrospect from our

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Speaker 2: position here in history, seems like the dumbest, most cowardly

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Speaker 2: thing you could have done. Yeah, if you understand what

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Speaker 2: their actual reasoning was for that, and also that they

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Speaker 2: didn't have the benefit of hinde in sight, yeah, then

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Speaker 2: you can kind of understand a little more like what

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Speaker 2: a weird position we're in right now, you know, or

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Speaker 2: why people would even consider doing that to putin.

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Speaker 1: Now, Yeah for sure. Yeah, so I guess broadly we

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Speaker 1: should just say that appeasement was an official policy leading

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Speaker 1: up to World War or you know, they didn't know

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Speaker 1: there was going to be a World War Two. But

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Speaker 1: looking back once again, leading up to World War Two

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Speaker 1: that the Western Allies took where in a nutshell they

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Speaker 1: were basically like, you know what, let's sort of let Germany,

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Speaker 1: and we need to point out we're going to over

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Speaker 1: and over that they did not know Hitler was the madman.

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Speaker 1: We know him now, but.

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Speaker 2: No, they mistook him terribly.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, they were like, let's let Germany. I think Hitler

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Speaker 1: just wants to kind of get Germany back on footing

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Speaker 1: after World War One and after the Treaty of Versailles

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Speaker 1: kind of wrecked Germany, and we need a strong Germany

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Speaker 1: in Europe, and like, let's give him what he wants

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Speaker 1: and he says he'll stop there, and we believe him.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, And like you said, they took Hitler to be

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Speaker 2: just like any other statesman leading a European power, which

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Speaker 2: was that he was a patrician colonizer who at the

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Speaker 2: end of the day answered to the aristocracy of his country. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: and that really he was more a threat to other people,

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Speaker 2: lesser people throughout the world whose lands he wanted to

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Speaker 2: turn into colonies. And we just needed to bring him

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Speaker 2: into the normal European way of doing things and Germany

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Speaker 2: will be back on its feet again. What was the

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Speaker 2: kind of the darker explanation of appeasement. Another explanation was

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Speaker 2: they had just been through World War One, yeah, a

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Speaker 2: dozen years before when all this really kind of started,

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Speaker 2: and no one was in the mood for a second

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Speaker 2: World war. So appeasement was the official policy by the

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Speaker 2: UK and France and then some of their supporters over

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Speaker 2: time that said, if we give you the stuff, you're

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Speaker 2: asking for now, we're hoping that eventually you're going to

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Speaker 2: reach your limit, you're going to get what you wanted,

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Speaker 2: and you're just going to be calm and everything's going

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Speaker 2: to be cool. From that point on, we won't have

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Speaker 2: to get in your way militarily, thus will avoid war.

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Speaker 2: So let's try this instead. So ultimately it was a

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Speaker 2: way to prevent World War Two. That was the entire

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Speaker 2: point of appeasement really from the outset.

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Speaker 1: Well, yeah, because I mean, at the time, like you said,

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Speaker 1: after World War One, none of these countries what would

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Speaker 1: end up being the Western Allies were in a great position.

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Speaker 1: They were still trying to build up armaments, some slower

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Speaker 1: than others. A Germany wasn't in a great position. So

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Speaker 1: it's kind of interesting. At the end, we're going to

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Speaker 1: go over a couple of like alternate histories of different

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Speaker 1: tacks that could have played out, or different plans that

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Speaker 1: they could have taken, and who knows how it would

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Speaker 1: have worked out. But I guess we should start with

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Speaker 1: the Treaty of Versailles, right, Yeah, for sure. So this

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Speaker 1: was after World War One and the Treaty of Versailles

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Speaker 1: came along and was signed, and it really it really

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Speaker 1: pounded Germany, and some historians even say like it went

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Speaker 1: too far as far as being punitive. Germany had to

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Speaker 1: reduce their army from one point nine million troops to

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Speaker 1: one hundred thousand, They had to get rid of most

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Speaker 1: of their navy, and they had to hand back territories

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Speaker 1: that it had taken over the last hundred years and

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Speaker 1: then pay hundreds of billion dollars in reparations.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. So not only was it like financially strapping them,

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Speaker 2: remember this is the time when German hyper reinflation happened

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Speaker 2: during the Weimar Republic, which is allion World War one

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Speaker 2: and two. This is why. And then also it was

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Speaker 2: like demoralizing. It was meant to basically smack Germany down

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Speaker 2: and be like you're lesser. Now we're punishing you. And

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Speaker 2: so I saw a quote I forgot to send it

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Speaker 2: to you. I don't remember who said it, but essentially

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Speaker 2: they said, this is not a treaty, this is an

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Speaker 2: armistice for twenty years. And it was somebody who looked

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Speaker 2: at this in nineteen nineteen and twenty years later World

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Speaker 2: War two broke out. Because it was so punidle, there

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Speaker 2: was no way that the German people were not going

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Speaker 2: to eventually rise up in retaliation for this, and we

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Speaker 2: were going to have a second World War. So a

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Speaker 2: lot of people point to that treaty as being the

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Speaker 2: thing that didn't necessarily directly lead to World War two,

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Speaker 2: but it laid all the groundwork to create a populace

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Speaker 2: that was in a vengeful mood, that would be willing

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Speaker 2: to support somebody with such nationalistic fervor as Hitler.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and that's what Hitler was cooking up from the beginning.

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Speaker 1: He was basically like, Hey, we want to get Germany

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Speaker 1: back together. We need to get all of our rightful

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Speaker 1: lands basically where any Germanic peoples are and where anybody

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Speaker 1: is speaking German. And also, as we'll see, help out

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Speaker 1: any German minorities to our east, you know, which is

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Speaker 1: Russia and the Soviet Union at the time, because they're

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Speaker 1: going to come into play. And he whipped up this

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Speaker 1: nationalistic fervor that everyone in Germany got behind, and that's

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Speaker 1: you know what eventually would of course lead to World

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Speaker 1: War Two. But I guess we should take it sort

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Speaker 1: of chronologically, because there were a series of appeasements starting

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Speaker 1: in nineteen thirty five, kind of one after the other

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Speaker 1: until finally, you know, they could take no more.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and just bear this in mind. Well, you're hearing

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Speaker 2: all of these like high points of how we moved

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Speaker 2: toward World War two thanks to Germany. Hitler followed this awareness,

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Speaker 2: or this belief by the UK in France that what

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Speaker 2: Germany really wanted to do was climb back out of

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Speaker 2: from under the Treaty of Versacience, just get back to

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Speaker 2: where they were before. So Hiller followed that to a t.

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Speaker 2: All of his demands, all of the aggressions that he

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Speaker 2: made were based on the Treaty of Versailles. And yet

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Speaker 2: in retrospect now we realize now these were he was

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Speaker 2: always going to try to go way further than that.

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Speaker 2: He was just playing upon the suppositions of the Allies

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Speaker 2: at the time.

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Speaker 1: Oh god, I mean, after studying all the stuff, he

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Speaker 1: played them for such suckers he did.

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Speaker 2: And what makes it a little worse though, too, is

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Speaker 2: he wrote all this stuff out in nineteen twenty five,

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Speaker 2: and top it's all laid out that push to the

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Speaker 2: east you're talking about where he wants to make more

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Speaker 2: room for German nationals that are outside of Germany, the

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Speaker 2: lebens Schrom, which basically says we're going to Russia eventually,

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Speaker 2: Like they knew this for ten years before he really

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Speaker 2: became a huge problem, and everybody just ignored it.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, oh yeah, he's like I wrote a book about it,

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Speaker 1: and I guess you guys don't read German because I

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Speaker 1: basically said what I was going to do, right, all right.

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Speaker 1: So nineteen thirty five was the first sort of wave

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Speaker 1: of appeasement, and this was the Anglo German Naval Agreement,

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Speaker 1: basically where Britain said, you know what, we know that

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Speaker 1: you're breaking the Treaty of Versailles because we know you're

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Speaker 1: building up your navy even though you were supposed to

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Speaker 1: scuttle your navy and go ahead and build a new fleet.

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Speaker 1: A lot of people saw that as just sort of

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Speaker 1: an initial surrender to what Hitler wanted. But Britain knew

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Speaker 1: that they were cheating already. They had six on the ground,

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Speaker 1: specifically an agent named Carl Krueger in their U boat

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Speaker 1: design office, which was a secret program at the time,

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Speaker 1: and they thought, hey, maybe we can get them to

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Speaker 1: build fewer U boats by endorsing them building these really big,

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Speaker 1: expensive battleships. It costs a lot of money and a

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Speaker 1: lot of raw materials, and it'll kind of kill their

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Speaker 1: U boat program. It didn't exactly work. They were supposed

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Speaker 1: to build seventy two submarines and ended up building fifty four.

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Speaker 1: But I don't know if they were like hooray about that.

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Speaker 2: So yeah, that in and of itself is a problem.

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Speaker 2: Like this grand policy of like making them spend resources,

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Speaker 2: it really didn't lead to that big of a reduction

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Speaker 2: politically speaking. It basically said the UK was endorsing now

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Speaker 2: Germany breaking the Treaty of Versailles by agreeing with them

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Speaker 2: that Germany could build its navy back up. Yeah, there

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Speaker 2: was also another thing that had nothing to do with Germany,

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Speaker 2: but really played into this later on. France was led

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Speaker 2: by a couple of different appeasement pro appeasement prime ministers

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Speaker 2: or premiers during this time, and they were good friends

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Speaker 2: with Italy, and Italy invaded Ethiopia, as you'll remember from

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Speaker 2: our Holly Selassie episode in nineteen thirty five, and France said,

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Speaker 2: you know what, go with it, Italy, we don't care

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Speaker 2: about that. Just promise us that if things go down,

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Speaker 2: if the S hits the Fan or le S hits

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Speaker 2: Lifhan you will be on our side against Germany, and

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Speaker 2: Italy said, yes, definitely, you got it one hundred percent,

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Speaker 2: and then they just went and ravaged Ethiopia.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and we all know how that turned out in the.

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Speaker 2: End, exactly.

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Speaker 1: That was those first two were thirty five. In nineteen

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Speaker 1: thirty six, Germans west the Rhineland. They wanted to remilitarize

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Speaker 1: that area. That again went against the Treaty of Versailles,

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Speaker 1: because that was supposed to be a buffer zone the

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Speaker 1: western part of Germany. And they had there was a

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Speaker 1: chance here to force fully respond here because they had

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Speaker 1: Czechoslovakia and Romania saying like, hey, you know, we got

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Speaker 1: your back if you want to do anything, but France

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Speaker 1: had Britain basically did nothing.

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Speaker 2: No Again, Frances kind of said, nah, we're kind of

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Speaker 2: busy with our own stuff, as we'll see, right, And

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Speaker 2: a lot of people also and who were heading the

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Speaker 2: politics in Western Europe at the time, were like, yeah,

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Speaker 2: good on them. Germany. They got that taken away from

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Speaker 2: him in the Treaty of Versailles. Let him have it back.

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Speaker 2: That's Germany, you know.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: There was also the Anschluss, which was a different category

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Speaker 2: after the remilitarization of the Rhineland because this was where

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Speaker 2: they annexed Austria. Austria was a sovereign it was not

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Speaker 2: a part of Germany before World War One as far

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Speaker 2: as I know, Please God, don't let me be wrong

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Speaker 2: about that one. And Germany just said, Austria, you're now

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Speaker 2: part of Germany. You guys are Germanic by heritage, so

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Speaker 2: you're just part of Germany now. And the world just

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Speaker 2: turned their heads and said, yeah, I guess that's fine too.

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Speaker 2: You know, Germany's doing it's Germanic thing.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and you know, we're going to talk a little

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Speaker 1: bit about public opinion here and there. But at the time,

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Speaker 1: this was March nineteen thirty eight, and this was Nebel

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Speaker 1: Chamberlain as PM in Britain, and the Bridge didn't want

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Speaker 1: to get involved. There was about a twenty five percent

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Speaker 1: in a survey were in favor of, you know, a

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Speaker 1: determinate policy, so you know, I guess that's not aggression,

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Speaker 1: but determine.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, most people were in favor of continuing to just

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Speaker 2: kind of go along with Germany restabilizing or regaining what

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Speaker 2: it had before the Treaty of Versailles. Because again, this

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Speaker 2: is what people are thinking. But if you'll notice, we

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Speaker 2: started to pick up speed a little bit here, like

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Speaker 2: bigger things are so var to happen. That was March

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Speaker 2: of nineteen thirty eight when they took over Austria, and

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Speaker 2: then in September Hitler had been basically making speeches where

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Speaker 2: he was saying, hey, there's this part. He called it

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Speaker 2: the rump of Czechoslovakia that butts up against Germany. That's

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Speaker 2: really actually Germany. It's called the Sudan Land, and it's

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Speaker 2: just basically this mountain range. Czechoslovakia doesn't care about it,

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Speaker 2: but we care about it because we're reuniting Germany again.

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Speaker 2: So we want that and we're going to go take it,

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Speaker 2: whether you want us to or not. And Neville, Chamberlain

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Speaker 2: and PM Edouard de Dalier all ran to Mudich to

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Speaker 2: meet with Hitler on his own ground and said here,

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Speaker 2: what do you want. Well, let's make a deal.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, And Hitler said, well, I've told you what I want.

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Speaker 1: I want this northwestern part of Czechoslovakia. We call it

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Speaker 1: the Sudetan Land. And they said, all right, you can

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Speaker 1: have that, but you got to promise, like, you know,

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Speaker 1: put your hand on this Bible, raise your right hand,

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Speaker 1: and you got to promise you to do anything else.

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Speaker 1: In Czechoslovakia. That's it. It stops there. And this is

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Speaker 1: where things are really I feel like echoing what's going

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Speaker 1: on in Ukraine like a putin. You know, eventually you're

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Speaker 1: going to get this stuff that you've conquered, but you're

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Speaker 1: going to stop there, right, And that's what happened back then.

255
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Speaker 1: The Czechs were an ally to France. In Britain at

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Speaker 1: the time, they were not even invited to the summit,

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Speaker 1: again echoing things that we see going on today. And

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Speaker 1: at the time there were even some German generals that thought,

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Speaker 1: like early on in September thirty eight when this happened,

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Speaker 1: they were like, hey, listen, if the Allies get behind

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Speaker 1: Czechoslovakia here, we could be in trouble. So there was

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Speaker 1: some kind of bluff calling happening basically, but Britain kind

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Speaker 1: of said no, let's let them do this, and they

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Speaker 1: steered France to do the same and pressure Czechoslovakia to submit,

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Speaker 1: and that's what happened.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and Czechoslovakia is like, fine, they can have the

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Speaker 2: sue date and land. We weren't even invited but we'll

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Speaker 2: go along with it because our ally, France is telling

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Speaker 2: us to keep in mind, an ally is not just

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Speaker 2: like we're friends with you, we think you're pretty cool,

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Speaker 2: and ally means like you usually have some sort of

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Speaker 2: documents or treaties saying, Okay, somebody tries to take part

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Speaker 2: of your country, we're going to come back you up militarily.

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Speaker 2: And when the Chips came down, France said no because

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Speaker 2: Great Britain was steering them. And one other point about

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Speaker 2: all this that's kind of hidden in there. Great Britain

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Speaker 2: was in a position to steer France because you could

278
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Speaker 2: make an argument that it was still the world's superpower.

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Speaker 2: The Empire was on the wane, but still by the thirties,

280
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Speaker 2: twenty five percent of the global population and twenty percent

281
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Speaker 2: of the earth's land masks were under British control. So

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Speaker 2: Britain was in a global position to basically set the

283
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Speaker 2: stage of how to deal with Germany, and the UK

284
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Speaker 2: decided appeasement was the way to go, so everybody else

285
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Speaker 2: kind of follow it along.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, all right, So that's September of thirty eight. They

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Speaker 1: give them the you know, they say you can have

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Speaker 1: this portion of Czechoslovaki as long as you promise not

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Speaker 1: to go in seven months later in March of nineteen

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Speaker 1: thirty nine, and he went into the rest of Czechoslovakia

291
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Speaker 1: just like he wrote in his book basically, so you know,

292
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Speaker 1: Hitler renigged on that promise of course to leave Czechoslovakia

293
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Speaker 1: the rest of it alone. And that was like the

294
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Speaker 1: real decisive moment because I think I feel like that's

295
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Speaker 1: when Hitler was probably like, man, these guys are are

296
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Speaker 1: cowards and they're letting me do whatever I want. And

297
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Speaker 1: very quickly thereafter that was March of thirty nine. September

298
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Speaker 1: of thirty nine is when he invaded Poland, and then

299
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Speaker 1: it was on.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and even before he invaded Poland, once he renegged

301
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Speaker 2: on the Czechoslovakian deal, the Munich Agreement, he showed the

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Speaker 2: world like you like I'll tell you whatever you want

303
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Speaker 2: to hear, I'm not going to back it up. So

304
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Speaker 2: he immediately destroyed the policy of appeasement. Like appeasement policy

305
00:15:46,640 --> 00:15:50,960
Speaker 2: had about as much traction as like yesterday's non winning

306
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Speaker 2: lotto ticket that you'd find in the gutter, covered in

307
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Speaker 2: gum and maybe a little bit of blood from somewhere Yeah,

308
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Speaker 2: like that was appeasement. After we'll put after the invasion

309
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Speaker 2: in Czechoslovakia, I got there eventually.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, but you know, Poland was invaded, and that's really

311
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Speaker 1: what kicked off. Like the beginnings of World War two.

312
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Speaker 1: Hitler tried to provoke war with Poland by saying, hey,

313
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Speaker 1: I want Danzig, not the band, no, but still the

314
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Speaker 1: city of Danzig and Prussian territory that was granted to

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Speaker 1: you in nineteen nineteen after World War One. We feel

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Speaker 1: like it is ours. And Britain and France, you know,

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Speaker 1: they made guarantees to Poland at the time. But in August,

318
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Speaker 1: it was pretty shocking at the time, the Nazis and

319
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Speaker 1: the Soviets signed a pact to partition Poland out and

320
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Speaker 1: basically said you come in from the east, we'll come

321
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Speaker 1: in from the west, and Poland is ours. And two

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Speaker 1: days later, Britain and France declared war on Germany.

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Speaker 2: Yep, and I think that is a great place to stop.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, boy, what a robust set up.

325
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Speaker 2: We'll be right back, So chuck where we left off.

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Speaker 2: Hitler had just invaded Poland and the UK and France

327
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Speaker 2: declared war on Germany. It took a lot what that

328
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Speaker 2: showed everybody was that appiasement was dead. The whole policy

329
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Speaker 2: had just shifted down to either containment or out and

330
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Speaker 2: out war now that they had had declared war. But

331
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Speaker 2: this was like there was a lot of reasons for

332
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Speaker 2: appeasement to have been tried. We talked about some of them,

333
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Speaker 2: but a big one was the UK was really holding

334
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Speaker 2: on to that that world's greatest superpower status as hard

335
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Speaker 2: as they could, and another world war put that in

336
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Speaker 2: like real Shepard put him in a precarious position.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean they were, you know, everybody was trying

338
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Speaker 1: to rearm themselves, like I said earlier, since World War One.

339
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Speaker 1: Some a little quicker than others. I think the United States,

340
00:18:12,160 --> 00:18:15,600
Speaker 1: as will learn, wasn't making the greatest rearmament effort because

341
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Speaker 1: Congress is kind of chilling the purse strings back when

342
00:18:19,760 --> 00:18:23,879
Speaker 1: they could do stuff like that. But the writing was

343
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Speaker 1: on the wall for the UK. They were like, we

344
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Speaker 1: were not in any position, even though we're supposedly the

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Speaker 1: world's greatest superpower to fight Germany, Japan and Italy all

346
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Speaker 1: at the same time to prevent them from expanding their territories.

347
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Speaker 1: Like that's just not a possibility. And we might have

348
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Speaker 1: to enter an alliance with the US. If worst comes

349
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Speaker 1: to worse, we might have to enter into an alliance

350
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Speaker 1: with the USSR. And that's just gonna make them, I mean,

351
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Speaker 1: that's gonna lessen their their their stance and their power

352
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Speaker 1: worldwide if they have to do stuff like that.

353
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Speaker 2: Yeah, and with their their prestige or power lessened like

354
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Speaker 2: on world stage, that's the kind of thing that can

355
00:19:02,880 --> 00:19:07,080
Speaker 2: spark decolonization movements. So they were worried about Jamaica, they

356
00:19:07,080 --> 00:19:09,639
Speaker 2: were worried about India, they were worried about Nigeria. All

357
00:19:09,680 --> 00:19:12,720
Speaker 2: of a sudden, being like the UK has overextended itself,

358
00:19:12,760 --> 00:19:15,960
Speaker 2: now's the time to declare independence from the UK. And

359
00:19:16,119 --> 00:19:18,359
Speaker 2: not just the prestige that was lost, but more to

360
00:19:18,400 --> 00:19:21,359
Speaker 2: the point, the resources or aw materials, all the stuff

361
00:19:21,400 --> 00:19:25,359
Speaker 2: that Great Britain extracted from these colonies that would be

362
00:19:25,400 --> 00:19:28,199
Speaker 2: lost as well. So what Great Britain wanted was no

363
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Speaker 2: war please, at least in part to preserve its empire.

364
00:19:33,240 --> 00:19:36,359
Speaker 2: Other people who were in the British Parliament and the

365
00:19:36,400 --> 00:19:39,840
Speaker 2: government basically said, we're going to have to go to war,

366
00:19:39,920 --> 00:19:43,960
Speaker 2: it's inevitable, but we're supporting appeasement right now because we

367
00:19:44,040 --> 00:19:46,399
Speaker 2: need to stall for time to rearm ourselves, like you

368
00:19:46,440 --> 00:19:47,159
Speaker 2: were saying.

369
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Speaker 1: Right, which, as we'll see, also allowed Germany to do

370
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Speaker 1: the same yea, either through rearmament by building things or

371
00:19:54,000 --> 00:19:56,919
Speaker 1: by storming Czechoslovakia and all of a sudden they had

372
00:19:56,960 --> 00:20:02,080
Speaker 1: all their stuff. But appeasement was popular for a long time.

373
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Speaker 1: Throughout most of the nineteen thirties. The public didn't want

374
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Speaker 1: to go to war again. They were shaking off of

375
00:20:08,720 --> 00:20:12,040
Speaker 1: World War One hangover. Still, no one wanted to go

376
00:20:12,080 --> 00:20:14,879
Speaker 1: to a war that was more technologically advanced, like pretty

377
00:20:14,960 --> 00:20:17,200
Speaker 1: rapidly since World War At the end of World War One,

378
00:20:17,680 --> 00:20:21,320
Speaker 1: for a second World War, I think in nineteen thirty seven,

379
00:20:21,520 --> 00:20:24,760
Speaker 1: sixty two percent of British men said they wouldn't volunteer

380
00:20:24,800 --> 00:20:27,359
Speaker 1: and seventy eight percent of women said they would not

381
00:20:27,520 --> 00:20:30,720
Speaker 1: urge their husbands to go fight mm hm. And even

382
00:20:30,760 --> 00:20:34,440
Speaker 1: after the Munich Agreement, when Czechoslovakia was left hanging out

383
00:20:34,480 --> 00:20:39,040
Speaker 1: to dry, seventy five percent still approved of appeasement in

384
00:20:39,119 --> 00:20:39,760
Speaker 1: Great Britain.

385
00:20:40,520 --> 00:20:43,280
Speaker 2: Yes, and so there was like a lot of anti

386
00:20:43,320 --> 00:20:47,600
Speaker 2: war anxiety. Apparently people had died by suicide, there were

387
00:20:47,680 --> 00:20:52,680
Speaker 2: mental health problems. All of the appeasement pro appeasement sentiment

388
00:20:52,800 --> 00:20:55,480
Speaker 2: was also bolstered by the Times and I believe the

389
00:20:55,480 --> 00:20:58,600
Speaker 2: BBC two, which portrayed Hitler as a moderate, basically saying

390
00:20:58,640 --> 00:21:00,960
Speaker 2: like it could get way worse than that, let's just

391
00:21:01,000 --> 00:21:04,000
Speaker 2: deal with this guy. And then the reason why this

392
00:21:04,119 --> 00:21:07,959
Speaker 2: matters is because at the time Britain had recently enfranchised

393
00:21:08,000 --> 00:21:10,719
Speaker 2: it's women, like more and more people were voting, so

394
00:21:10,800 --> 00:21:14,240
Speaker 2: the public opinion about stuff mattered more and more to

395
00:21:14,280 --> 00:21:17,320
Speaker 2: the people calling the shots politically. And we'll also see

396
00:21:17,359 --> 00:21:22,119
Speaker 2: that also turned the politician's views against appeasement as public

397
00:21:22,119 --> 00:21:23,760
Speaker 2: opinion changed on appeasement. Two.

398
00:21:24,440 --> 00:21:27,080
Speaker 1: Yeah, for sure, and you know there was a string

399
00:21:27,119 --> 00:21:30,040
Speaker 1: of pms that were all for it. Neville Chamberlain was

400
00:21:30,080 --> 00:21:34,000
Speaker 1: the third British PM. He was in there from thirty

401
00:21:34,040 --> 00:21:36,879
Speaker 1: seven to forty during this time of appeasement, so it

402
00:21:36,920 --> 00:21:40,720
Speaker 1: wasn't just Chamberlain. I think he's kind of There's two

403
00:21:40,720 --> 00:21:43,160
Speaker 1: things I feel like from Great Britain that are remembered

404
00:21:43,240 --> 00:21:46,160
Speaker 1: is and you know, it depends on how you want

405
00:21:46,160 --> 00:21:47,119
Speaker 1: to look at it, but I think a lot of

406
00:21:47,119 --> 00:21:52,360
Speaker 1: people eventually framed Neville Chamberlain as a coward and Winston

407
00:21:52,440 --> 00:21:55,159
Speaker 1: Churchill as a hero because he was one of the

408
00:21:55,200 --> 00:21:58,720
Speaker 1: only ones that was like this guy Hitler, like, I

409
00:21:58,760 --> 00:22:00,680
Speaker 1: don't think you guys see the right on the wall here,

410
00:22:00,720 --> 00:22:03,040
Speaker 1: He's not going to stop and this appeasement thing is

411
00:22:03,080 --> 00:22:03,400
Speaker 1: no good.

412
00:22:03,800 --> 00:22:05,919
Speaker 2: Yeah. And he also, I mean he still alone basically

413
00:22:05,960 --> 00:22:09,760
Speaker 2: in his party. The conservatives were like, yeah, we're all

414
00:22:09,800 --> 00:22:11,840
Speaker 2: pro appeasement at least at the time. So he definitely

415
00:22:11,840 --> 00:22:16,560
Speaker 2: stood on his own in France. France also had lost

416
00:22:16,680 --> 00:22:19,520
Speaker 2: a lot of people and a lot of money in

417
00:22:19,600 --> 00:22:22,359
Speaker 2: World War One and was not very eager to do

418
00:22:23,160 --> 00:22:27,159
Speaker 2: a redo of it. But they were still anti Germany.

419
00:22:26,600 --> 00:22:29,880
Speaker 2: Like France was not a friend of Germany. They did

420
00:22:29,920 --> 00:22:31,880
Speaker 2: not want to be friends of Germany. Their alliances were

421
00:22:31,920 --> 00:22:36,159
Speaker 2: against Germany. But ultimately, and this is what's crazy to me,

422
00:22:37,119 --> 00:22:41,440
Speaker 2: it was racked by far right and far left internal

423
00:22:41,480 --> 00:22:42,520
Speaker 2: political conflict.

424
00:22:42,560 --> 00:22:44,919
Speaker 1: Yeah at the time, yeah, yeah, they were kind of

425
00:22:44,960 --> 00:22:48,240
Speaker 1: in an inter stalemate almost, right.

426
00:22:48,040 --> 00:22:50,000
Speaker 2: And so they were whether they wanted to be or not.

427
00:22:50,080 --> 00:22:55,840
Speaker 2: They were fairly drawn into domestic affairs rather than foreign affairs,

428
00:22:56,600 --> 00:23:00,840
Speaker 2: and it wasn't until Edouard d' laudier became Prime minister

429
00:23:00,920 --> 00:23:04,000
Speaker 2: that they really started to branch back out into foreign affairs.

430
00:23:04,000 --> 00:23:06,960
Speaker 2: But even then they were pretty pro appeasement, so they

431
00:23:07,000 --> 00:23:09,240
Speaker 2: didn't really have much of a stomach for going into

432
00:23:09,280 --> 00:23:11,960
Speaker 2: a second World War, understandably, but they didn't feel like

433
00:23:12,040 --> 00:23:15,840
Speaker 2: they were in a place to do anything, so essentially

434
00:23:15,880 --> 00:23:18,600
Speaker 2: they just went on the defense. They did not they

435
00:23:18,640 --> 00:23:21,080
Speaker 2: weren't going to go into a policy of containment or

436
00:23:21,080 --> 00:23:21,920
Speaker 2: anything like that.

437
00:23:22,560 --> 00:23:25,480
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, as far as the US goes, at the time,

438
00:23:25,600 --> 00:23:28,919
Speaker 1: we had FDR in there, Roosevelt was in there, and

439
00:23:29,160 --> 00:23:34,320
Speaker 1: he endorsed appeasement, like officially, he endorsed the Munich Agreement.

440
00:23:35,119 --> 00:23:37,760
Speaker 1: They were into isolationism at the time and trying to

441
00:23:37,800 --> 00:23:41,560
Speaker 1: stay neutral. And we were also in no position militarily because,

442
00:23:41,600 --> 00:23:44,040
Speaker 1: like I mentioned, we were kind of you know, we

443
00:23:44,040 --> 00:23:46,000
Speaker 1: were also depleted by World War One and moving along

444
00:23:46,000 --> 00:23:49,399
Speaker 1: a little slower than even other eventual Allied countries because

445
00:23:50,200 --> 00:23:52,520
Speaker 1: Congress was kind of pulling those purse strings a little

446
00:23:52,560 --> 00:23:54,560
Speaker 1: tight as far as building the military back up.

447
00:23:54,680 --> 00:23:56,320
Speaker 2: Yeah, and I think that you can make a case

448
00:23:56,359 --> 00:23:58,760
Speaker 2: that any country that was involved in World War One

449
00:23:59,000 --> 00:24:03,080
Speaker 2: really lost its appetite for war after that, like, yeah,

450
00:24:03,160 --> 00:24:07,360
Speaker 2: to an amazing degree, understandably for sure. And then there

451
00:24:07,400 --> 00:24:12,760
Speaker 2: was another group of pro appeasers who was the Britain's aristocracy,

452
00:24:13,400 --> 00:24:15,479
Speaker 2: and the reason why is because they wanted things to

453
00:24:15,520 --> 00:24:17,879
Speaker 2: just basically, let's just go back to where we colonize

454
00:24:17,880 --> 00:24:21,080
Speaker 2: other places. And really it's the aristocracy running things. And

455
00:24:21,119 --> 00:24:23,320
Speaker 2: we're all related, and I'm your cousin, you're my cousin,

456
00:24:23,359 --> 00:24:26,359
Speaker 2: and we're all three somehow married, but we all run everything.

457
00:24:26,440 --> 00:24:30,440
Speaker 2: We're all just crazy rich let's keep doing that. And

458
00:24:30,560 --> 00:24:33,760
Speaker 2: they saw Hitler as somebody who could help keep that

459
00:24:33,840 --> 00:24:36,480
Speaker 2: kind of status quo or get back to that kind

460
00:24:36,480 --> 00:24:39,880
Speaker 2: of status quo. The group that was opposed to Hitler though,

461
00:24:40,600 --> 00:24:44,879
Speaker 2: they were the Soviets, and they were communists, and the aristocrats,

462
00:24:44,880 --> 00:24:50,360
Speaker 2: who enjoy wealth inequality do not typically like communism more communists,

463
00:24:50,400 --> 00:24:52,960
Speaker 2: so they wanted to steer Britain away from any kind

464
00:24:52,960 --> 00:24:56,679
Speaker 2: of alliances with the USSR that could support communists or

465
00:24:56,720 --> 00:25:00,000
Speaker 2: socialists in Britain and their causes, and more towards Hitler

466
00:25:00,200 --> 00:25:04,359
Speaker 2: because Hitler's policies kind of jobbed with the aristocracy's views

467
00:25:04,359 --> 00:25:05,000
Speaker 2: a little more.

468
00:25:05,480 --> 00:25:07,800
Speaker 1: Yeah, And I mean they were sort of actively courting

469
00:25:07,800 --> 00:25:11,440
Speaker 1: one another because they saw Hitler as somebody who could

470
00:25:11,880 --> 00:25:13,760
Speaker 1: you know, like you were saying, kind of let them

471
00:25:13,800 --> 00:25:17,000
Speaker 1: keep their their lifestyle in check right and Hitler in

472
00:25:17,040 --> 00:25:20,040
Speaker 1: Germany did nothing to make them think otherwise. You know,

473
00:25:20,080 --> 00:25:22,520
Speaker 1: they were playing on those peers of communism for sure.

474
00:25:22,600 --> 00:25:23,920
Speaker 1: They're like, you know, you got a lot of dough.

475
00:25:24,400 --> 00:25:27,040
Speaker 1: You know what happens when communism happens, And that, you know,

476
00:25:27,080 --> 00:25:29,760
Speaker 1: sent a chill through the British aristocratic scene.

477
00:25:29,880 --> 00:25:32,280
Speaker 2: Yeah. They were known to say, croiky.

478
00:25:32,560 --> 00:25:37,920
Speaker 1: Right, break time or shall we go on with Churchill?

479
00:25:38,240 --> 00:25:40,359
Speaker 2: Give me a break, Chuck, break me off a piece

480
00:25:40,400 --> 00:25:44,160
Speaker 2: of that ad break bar, Oh.

481
00:25:44,000 --> 00:26:10,120
Speaker 1: Boy, we'll be right back all right. So that might

482
00:26:10,160 --> 00:26:11,800
Speaker 1: have been the best ad segue ever.

483
00:26:12,920 --> 00:26:13,399
Speaker 2: With the R.

484
00:26:13,760 --> 00:26:17,800
Speaker 1: So I just I didn't see an allusion to kit

485
00:26:17,920 --> 00:26:19,760
Speaker 1: kat oh in this episode.

486
00:26:19,880 --> 00:26:21,479
Speaker 2: Thanks all right.

487
00:26:21,520 --> 00:26:24,760
Speaker 1: So we mentioned Churchill sort of briefly before. Churchill was like,

488
00:26:24,800 --> 00:26:30,280
Speaker 1: we said, one of the sort of few outspoken dudes

489
00:26:30,320 --> 00:26:32,399
Speaker 1: that was like, no, we can't do this. He visited

490
00:26:32,440 --> 00:26:34,919
Speaker 1: Germany in nineteen thirty two and he was like, these

491
00:26:35,000 --> 00:26:37,200
Speaker 1: Nazis mean business. I don't think you guys understand what's

492
00:26:37,200 --> 00:26:39,520
Speaker 1: happening here. And he said, if we can see to Hitler,

493
00:26:41,040 --> 00:26:42,600
Speaker 1: things are going to get much worse. We have to

494
00:26:42,640 --> 00:26:45,840
Speaker 1: re arm ourselves, you know, quicker and get those factories

495
00:26:45,840 --> 00:26:48,359
Speaker 1: to work. But you know, that's the kind of thing

496
00:26:48,359 --> 00:26:51,120
Speaker 1: that can wreckon economy. So that's if people are wondering, like, well,

497
00:26:51,160 --> 00:26:53,440
Speaker 1: why didn't they all just rearm as fast as they could,

498
00:26:53,680 --> 00:26:56,119
Speaker 1: it's because it costs a ton of money and people.

499
00:26:56,200 --> 00:26:58,600
Speaker 1: So it's not great for the economy to have to

500
00:26:58,600 --> 00:27:01,159
Speaker 1: build that war machine backup. But he was founding the

501
00:27:01,200 --> 00:27:01,959
Speaker 1: drum to do so.

502
00:27:02,240 --> 00:27:06,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, and his whole take on Hitler, including the Munich Agreement,

503
00:27:06,080 --> 00:27:09,240
Speaker 2: which he called a total and unmitigated defeat. This is

504
00:27:09,240 --> 00:27:11,560
Speaker 2: where the Allies went to Hitler and said, we'll let

505
00:27:11,600 --> 00:27:14,560
Speaker 2: you have part of Czechoslovakia, just don't invade the rest

506
00:27:14,600 --> 00:27:18,679
Speaker 2: of Czechoslovakia. He like, when Neville Chamberlain came back to

507
00:27:18,720 --> 00:27:21,959
Speaker 2: the UK, he was like basically waiving the agreement and

508
00:27:22,000 --> 00:27:25,400
Speaker 2: saying he had negotiated a peace for our time that essentially,

509
00:27:25,840 --> 00:27:28,040
Speaker 2: like aggression from Germany was done. We were all going

510
00:27:28,119 --> 00:27:30,440
Speaker 2: to live in peace again. And it lasted a year

511
00:27:30,520 --> 00:27:32,680
Speaker 2: before we were at war with Germany. So it made

512
00:27:32,760 --> 00:27:36,400
Speaker 2: Chamberlain look pretty bad. It made Churchill look like very

513
00:27:36,440 --> 00:27:39,280
Speaker 2: foresightful and exactly the kind of guy that you would

514
00:27:39,359 --> 00:27:42,439
Speaker 2: want to fight Hitler. So essentially, after they got rid

515
00:27:42,520 --> 00:27:46,600
Speaker 2: of Chamberlain, the UK went to Churchill and said, you

516
00:27:46,680 --> 00:27:49,760
Speaker 2: don't like Hitler. We understand that we don't like Hitler

517
00:27:49,800 --> 00:27:52,840
Speaker 2: anymore now and so Europe.

518
00:27:53,680 --> 00:27:55,639
Speaker 1: Yeah, and you know a lot of people said that

519
00:27:55,720 --> 00:27:58,320
Speaker 1: was his aim, was to increase his political profile, and

520
00:27:58,600 --> 00:28:00,720
Speaker 1: you know who knows it. That was his aim, but

521
00:28:00,760 --> 00:28:04,000
Speaker 1: it worked. He took overs PM in nineteen forty after Chamberlain,

522
00:28:04,080 --> 00:28:09,199
Speaker 1: like you said, and he wanted he basically later on

523
00:28:09,359 --> 00:28:11,359
Speaker 1: was like, hey, if we would have had a policy

524
00:28:11,400 --> 00:28:14,600
Speaker 1: of deterrence instead of appeasement, we might have prevented this

525
00:28:14,640 --> 00:28:18,040
Speaker 1: war to begin with. You know, Britain and France should

526
00:28:18,040 --> 00:28:21,720
Speaker 1: have strengthened our relationship, and that was our best hope

527
00:28:21,760 --> 00:28:23,680
Speaker 1: was maybe to form what he called a grand alliance

528
00:28:23,960 --> 00:28:28,119
Speaker 1: with the Soviet Union, even in eastern European countries. But

529
00:28:28,520 --> 00:28:30,200
Speaker 1: the Soviet you know, there was a lot of distrust

530
00:28:30,240 --> 00:28:33,920
Speaker 1: of the Soviet Union, especially you know, like we mentioned

531
00:28:33,960 --> 00:28:38,400
Speaker 1: the aristocracy who wanted to hang on to their pounds,

532
00:28:38,480 --> 00:28:41,000
Speaker 1: and of course what Stalin was doing, you know, they

533
00:28:41,040 --> 00:28:43,880
Speaker 1: didn't trust that either. So he was not going to

534
00:28:43,920 --> 00:28:48,520
Speaker 1: get support from the British or the French to sort

535
00:28:48,520 --> 00:28:49,120
Speaker 1: of be tougher.

536
00:28:49,400 --> 00:28:51,680
Speaker 2: No, but as we'll see later, it was not a

537
00:28:51,720 --> 00:28:55,480
Speaker 2: bad plan. Could have changed things dramatically. Yeah. One of

538
00:28:55,560 --> 00:28:58,959
Speaker 2: the other things that made Churchill such a strident voice

539
00:28:59,000 --> 00:29:03,040
Speaker 2: about opposing Germany is that he had intelligence. I guess

540
00:29:03,040 --> 00:29:07,360
Speaker 2: as a Minister of Parliament, he had men on the inside. Yeah,

541
00:29:07,400 --> 00:29:10,200
Speaker 2: and he had an intelligence report from somebody in Germany

542
00:29:10,240 --> 00:29:14,400
Speaker 2: saying that Germany had a mean spirit of revenge, brutality,

543
00:29:14,440 --> 00:29:18,600
Speaker 2: amounting in many cases to best reality and complete ruthlessness.

544
00:29:19,160 --> 00:29:23,160
Speaker 2: And this is at a time when Chamberlain and Daladier

545
00:29:23,560 --> 00:29:26,320
Speaker 2: are basically saying, like, Hitler's our friend, we just need

546
00:29:26,360 --> 00:29:29,480
Speaker 2: to keep keep negotiating with him. He's getting reports about

547
00:29:29,520 --> 00:29:32,920
Speaker 2: how they're just brutal and ruthless, and those panned out

548
00:29:32,960 --> 00:29:33,440
Speaker 2: to be true.

549
00:29:34,200 --> 00:29:37,760
Speaker 1: Yeah. Uh. We mentioned FDR in the US earlier that

550
00:29:37,960 --> 00:29:41,840
Speaker 1: officially they supported a peacement because they would not, you know,

551
00:29:42,040 --> 00:29:44,520
Speaker 1: sign any kind of formal agreement with the UK or France.

552
00:29:44,560 --> 00:29:48,280
Speaker 1: But on the inside, the administration was definitely trying to

553
00:29:49,120 --> 00:29:51,880
Speaker 1: kind of say, hey, UK, you gotta you got to

554
00:29:51,920 --> 00:29:54,400
Speaker 1: change your stance here. You gotta, like Hitler means business

555
00:29:54,400 --> 00:29:58,200
Speaker 1: and only your military can can deter this guy. At

556
00:29:58,200 --> 00:30:01,400
Speaker 1: this point, but on the outside they were, you know, officially, like, hey,

557
00:30:01,440 --> 00:30:04,720
Speaker 1: we're not involved. This appeasement sounds pretty good to us.

558
00:30:05,640 --> 00:30:08,040
Speaker 1: And like we said, you know, the people of Britain

559
00:30:08,040 --> 00:30:11,280
Speaker 1: were largely for it, and most of the people were

560
00:30:11,840 --> 00:30:14,680
Speaker 1: didn't want to go back to war until the Crystal

561
00:30:14,760 --> 00:30:18,600
Speaker 1: Knacht on November nineteen thirty eight. That's when Germany, you know,

562
00:30:18,640 --> 00:30:22,000
Speaker 1: for the first time, attacked its own citizens and destroyed

563
00:30:22,080 --> 00:30:26,080
Speaker 1: Jewish businesses and synagogues, killed about one hundred Jews and

564
00:30:26,160 --> 00:30:30,400
Speaker 1: arrested about one hundred thousand. And that's when the public

565
00:30:30,440 --> 00:30:33,400
Speaker 1: at large, kind of all around the world was like, oh, okay,

566
00:30:33,520 --> 00:30:36,200
Speaker 1: that's what this guy's about. This cannot stand right.

567
00:30:36,320 --> 00:30:39,400
Speaker 2: And remember now with the UK having all of these

568
00:30:39,440 --> 00:30:44,040
Speaker 2: new voters, their opinion mattered, so that helped change things too.

569
00:30:45,040 --> 00:30:48,120
Speaker 1: Yeah, I wish I knew how to say too late

570
00:30:48,720 --> 00:30:49,200
Speaker 1: in German.

571
00:30:49,960 --> 00:30:51,840
Speaker 2: You don't. You didn't learn that in high school.

572
00:30:53,080 --> 00:30:54,200
Speaker 1: No. I was trying to think of I.

573
00:30:54,120 --> 00:30:56,080
Speaker 2: Can think, can you sound it out letter by letter?

574
00:30:57,120 --> 00:30:57,239
Speaker 1: No?

575
00:30:57,360 --> 00:30:58,880
Speaker 2: Oh wait, you'd have to know the word to do that.

576
00:30:59,560 --> 00:31:02,240
Speaker 1: No. I remember what Canuts in the Mouse did and

577
00:31:03,400 --> 00:31:06,680
Speaker 1: at Hans Peter's house because I remember reading that chapter

578
00:31:06,800 --> 00:31:07,600
Speaker 1: over and over and over.

579
00:31:08,040 --> 00:31:09,040
Speaker 2: What did he do?

580
00:31:10,400 --> 00:31:13,840
Speaker 1: I really don't remember, but that the my friend Rad

581
00:31:13,960 --> 00:31:17,520
Speaker 1: and the cartographer in Montana. He'll be the only person

582
00:31:17,520 --> 00:31:20,040
Speaker 1: in the world that gets that joke, because it was

583
00:31:20,160 --> 00:31:22,040
Speaker 1: just a lot of stuff about canuts in the mouse

584
00:31:22,080 --> 00:31:24,840
Speaker 1: and his owner Hans Peter, who was you know that

585
00:31:25,160 --> 00:31:26,240
Speaker 1: German textbook stuff?

586
00:31:26,320 --> 00:31:29,800
Speaker 2: Okay? Was that like the German high school classes equivalent

587
00:31:29,960 --> 00:31:34,400
Speaker 2: of the Little Prince in the French Probably gotcha, I

588
00:31:34,480 --> 00:31:35,960
Speaker 2: understand exactly what you mean.

589
00:31:36,280 --> 00:31:37,800
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's fun on a big show like this to

590
00:31:37,840 --> 00:31:39,120
Speaker 1: make a joke for one human.

591
00:31:38,960 --> 00:31:43,760
Speaker 2: So why not. So there's one other group, chuck that

592
00:31:43,800 --> 00:31:46,640
Speaker 2: we didn't talk about what they thought of a peace man.

593
00:31:46,720 --> 00:31:50,720
Speaker 2: That was the Nazis themselves in Hitler, and they loved it. Yeah,

594
00:31:50,840 --> 00:31:53,280
Speaker 2: probably not a big surprise. They saw it as a

595
00:31:53,320 --> 00:31:57,680
Speaker 2: clear sign of weakness by the world's leading powers, that

596
00:31:57,800 --> 00:32:01,400
Speaker 2: they that Hitler in Germany could do whatever it wanted

597
00:32:01,760 --> 00:32:04,920
Speaker 2: and France and the UK were just gonna bow their

598
00:32:05,040 --> 00:32:08,360
Speaker 2: knees and their heads in front of Hitler and the

599
00:32:08,840 --> 00:32:12,440
Speaker 2: people of the of Germany itself also picked up on

600
00:32:12,480 --> 00:32:15,400
Speaker 2: this too, like Hitler had, remember, he had taken power.

601
00:32:16,040 --> 00:32:19,800
Speaker 2: It wasn't like you know he wasn't fully supported yet.

602
00:32:19,840 --> 00:32:22,120
Speaker 2: There was like a courtship period that was still things

603
00:32:22,160 --> 00:32:24,520
Speaker 2: were up in the air. But when he came back

604
00:32:24,920 --> 00:32:27,560
Speaker 2: and said, I got back the Rhineland, I got back

605
00:32:27,600 --> 00:32:33,000
Speaker 2: to dayton Land, I got us Austria. What's next, you know?

606
00:32:33,160 --> 00:32:36,840
Speaker 2: And I did it all without a single shot fired. Yeah,

607
00:32:36,920 --> 00:32:38,920
Speaker 2: these guys just gave it back to us because that's

608
00:32:38,920 --> 00:32:41,080
Speaker 2: what they think of Germany. With me leading it, the

609
00:32:41,120 --> 00:32:44,680
Speaker 2: German people just went nuts. And Hitler was was the guy.

610
00:32:44,800 --> 00:32:45,720
Speaker 1: He was Derfer.

611
00:32:46,200 --> 00:32:48,440
Speaker 2: That was the day Hitler became der Feurer.

612
00:32:50,520 --> 00:32:52,680
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's it, man, You just walked off of a

613
00:32:52,720 --> 00:32:55,440
Speaker 1: History Channel show. You dropped the mic in the sound

614
00:32:55,440 --> 00:32:58,440
Speaker 1: studio and left. One thing we can say is that

615
00:32:58,520 --> 00:33:02,240
Speaker 1: appeasement did achieve the aim of rearmament. That was kind

616
00:33:02,240 --> 00:33:04,000
Speaker 1: of one of the goals, Like we said a few times,

617
00:33:04,080 --> 00:33:05,640
Speaker 1: is that, you know, everyone was trying to put this

618
00:33:05,720 --> 00:33:08,400
Speaker 1: off so they could build back up their war stock

619
00:33:08,520 --> 00:33:12,520
Speaker 1: or whatever, and that happened. Britain spent less on arms

620
00:33:12,800 --> 00:33:15,520
Speaker 1: than Germany did from nineteen thirty five to nineteen thirty nine,

621
00:33:15,600 --> 00:33:19,240
Speaker 1: but they had the highest proportion of their GDP devoted

622
00:33:19,600 --> 00:33:24,400
Speaker 1: to building up their armaments in nineteen forty, and in

623
00:33:24,480 --> 00:33:26,760
Speaker 1: nineteen thirty they rebuilt the navy to the you know,

624
00:33:26,800 --> 00:33:29,800
Speaker 1: once again the world's strongest navy. Shout out to British Seapower,

625
00:33:29,880 --> 00:33:34,360
Speaker 1: one of my favorite bands. And early on, you know,

626
00:33:34,480 --> 00:33:37,480
Speaker 1: they had outpaced Germany. And you know, we're going to

627
00:33:37,560 --> 00:33:40,400
Speaker 1: talk about the alternate histories here shortly, like what if

628
00:33:40,400 --> 00:33:42,800
Speaker 1: they had done something. They're in a pretty good position.

629
00:33:42,880 --> 00:33:46,080
Speaker 1: They between Britain and France. Their coalition had a five

630
00:33:46,120 --> 00:33:51,960
Speaker 1: to one armament superiority over Germany early on and France.

631
00:33:52,640 --> 00:33:55,320
Speaker 1: The fallow of France in nineteen forty apparently, and I

632
00:33:55,360 --> 00:33:57,680
Speaker 1: don't know enough about this stuff, but from what I've read,

633
00:33:58,040 --> 00:34:01,160
Speaker 1: it wasn't because they were unprepared and didn't have enough

634
00:34:01,200 --> 00:34:03,800
Speaker 1: bombs and things. Apparently it was about poor leadership at

635
00:34:03,800 --> 00:34:04,120
Speaker 1: that point.

636
00:34:04,200 --> 00:34:06,760
Speaker 2: Yeah. I couldn't find enough by that myself to speak

637
00:34:06,800 --> 00:34:09,080
Speaker 2: confidently on it. All I know is that France did

638
00:34:09,080 --> 00:34:11,040
Speaker 2: not put up much of a fight from what I

639
00:34:11,120 --> 00:34:14,839
Speaker 2: remember from the history books. Yeah, well, let's talk about that, Chuck,

640
00:34:14,880 --> 00:34:17,799
Speaker 2: Let's talk about those alternate histories, especially with the view

641
00:34:17,800 --> 00:34:22,040
Speaker 2: of armament. Because Neville Chamberlain, when he basically couldn't get

642
00:34:22,040 --> 00:34:24,920
Speaker 2: a coalition government together anymore after Hitler rinegg Don the

643
00:34:25,000 --> 00:34:28,080
Speaker 2: Munich agreement, and he was replaced like we saw with

644
00:34:28,160 --> 00:34:32,640
Speaker 2: by Winston Churchill in nineteen forty. That same year he

645
00:34:32,719 --> 00:34:36,720
Speaker 2: died of cancer after Chamberlain was removed. But he spent

646
00:34:36,800 --> 00:34:40,840
Speaker 2: that time basically saying like I bought us time. Appeasement

647
00:34:40,880 --> 00:34:44,080
Speaker 2: bought us time to rearm. And he's right, like you

648
00:34:44,160 --> 00:34:47,279
Speaker 2: showed like Britain did have a chance to rearm. But

649
00:34:47,360 --> 00:34:50,360
Speaker 2: there was a really critical window that we know about

650
00:34:50,360 --> 00:34:56,320
Speaker 2: now where that policy of appeasing in order to rearm

651
00:34:56,840 --> 00:35:00,239
Speaker 2: didn't make sense, and that was about nineteen thirty to

652
00:35:00,360 --> 00:35:04,080
Speaker 2: nineteen thirty nine. And the reason was is because France

653
00:35:04,200 --> 00:35:06,680
Speaker 2: and the UK were rearming at a rate close to

654
00:35:06,760 --> 00:35:09,520
Speaker 2: Germany and were actually even overtaking it a little bit,

655
00:35:09,840 --> 00:35:13,280
Speaker 2: and they could have put up a fight against Germany

656
00:35:13,320 --> 00:35:17,600
Speaker 2: and probably one especially together combining their stuff in nineteen

657
00:35:17,640 --> 00:35:21,000
Speaker 2: thirty eight. By nineteen thirty nine things had changed. Germany

658
00:35:21,000 --> 00:35:24,480
Speaker 2: had gone even further overdrive into war production, but more

659
00:35:24,520 --> 00:35:29,239
Speaker 2: to the point, they had taken over Czechoslovakia. Czechoslovakia had

660
00:35:29,280 --> 00:35:32,400
Speaker 2: all sorts of munitions factories. Czechoslovakia had all sorts of

661
00:35:32,400 --> 00:35:36,480
Speaker 2: people you could could script into free labor aka slave labor.

662
00:35:37,640 --> 00:35:39,839
Speaker 2: There's all sorts of stuff that happened when they took

663
00:35:39,880 --> 00:35:44,440
Speaker 2: over Czechoslovakia and it tipped the balance whipped way up

664
00:35:44,480 --> 00:35:47,640
Speaker 2: in favor of Germany's military after that. So that period

665
00:35:47,760 --> 00:35:50,360
Speaker 2: nineteen thirty eight to nineteen thirty nine, appeasement did the

666
00:35:50,400 --> 00:35:53,640
Speaker 2: exact opposite, and it made the war way worse than

667
00:35:53,640 --> 00:35:56,080
Speaker 2: it would have been had the UK and France said

668
00:35:56,360 --> 00:35:57,759
Speaker 2: this is as good as going to get we gotta

669
00:35:57,800 --> 00:35:58,200
Speaker 2: go now.

670
00:35:59,000 --> 00:36:03,440
Speaker 1: Well yeah, and you know, it also possibly made the

671
00:36:03,440 --> 00:36:05,280
Speaker 1: war worst and a lot of people say it definitely

672
00:36:05,280 --> 00:36:07,800
Speaker 1: made the war worse than it would have been because

673
00:36:07,920 --> 00:36:11,440
Speaker 1: in nineteen forty Britain's holding out against Germany and they're

674
00:36:11,480 --> 00:36:15,160
Speaker 1: both seeking resources all around the world that you needed

675
00:36:15,200 --> 00:36:19,480
Speaker 1: to get to win a world war, and that just

676
00:36:19,600 --> 00:36:21,960
Speaker 1: expanded the war basically made it into a global thing,

677
00:36:22,000 --> 00:36:24,040
Speaker 1: a much larger thing than it might have been otherwise. Right,

678
00:36:25,280 --> 00:36:27,680
Speaker 1: deterrence might have avoided all of that if they would

679
00:36:27,719 --> 00:36:31,359
Speaker 1: have formed a grand alliance and bonded their powers early on.

680
00:36:32,800 --> 00:36:35,600
Speaker 1: You know, because I mentioned earlier there were even generals

681
00:36:35,640 --> 00:36:38,719
Speaker 1: within Germany's it's kind of a bluffing game. Like, hey,

682
00:36:38,760 --> 00:36:41,839
Speaker 1: if these guys get together, like, we're not the best

683
00:36:41,880 --> 00:36:44,560
Speaker 1: position right now. And so while they were buying time,

684
00:36:44,760 --> 00:36:48,880
Speaker 1: it helped Germany increase their war chest. And yeah, that's

685
00:36:49,280 --> 00:36:50,800
Speaker 1: the rest is history.

686
00:36:50,600 --> 00:36:54,600
Speaker 2: Right, But speaking of alternate histories, there were other options

687
00:36:54,719 --> 00:36:58,440
Speaker 2: that the UK had on the table, and now speaking

688
00:36:58,480 --> 00:37:02,080
Speaker 2: about them, like in retrospect, it's mind boggling to even think.

689
00:37:02,760 --> 00:37:05,880
Speaker 2: But the first one's a little more understandable or palatable.

690
00:37:06,239 --> 00:37:09,520
Speaker 2: Had the UK simply just not declared war after Germany

691
00:37:09,560 --> 00:37:12,120
Speaker 2: invaded Poland, that was an option to them on the table.

692
00:37:12,360 --> 00:37:14,879
Speaker 2: They didn't have to do it. France had already set

693
00:37:14,920 --> 00:37:17,960
Speaker 2: the precedent of not backing up Czechoslovakia when it was

694
00:37:18,000 --> 00:37:21,560
Speaker 2: taken over by Germany. The UK could have just not

695
00:37:21,640 --> 00:37:24,440
Speaker 2: done that too. And one thing that could have backed

696
00:37:24,440 --> 00:37:28,640
Speaker 2: this up, that could have supported actually that position in

697
00:37:28,680 --> 00:37:30,560
Speaker 2: the UK just sit back and let it play out

698
00:37:30,560 --> 00:37:34,600
Speaker 2: on its own, because it was inevitable essentially for the

699
00:37:35,120 --> 00:37:40,560
Speaker 2: USSR in Germany to clash because of that Lebenschrom policy.

700
00:37:40,600 --> 00:37:43,719
Speaker 2: That policy of the East actually belongs to Germany and

701
00:37:43,760 --> 00:37:45,000
Speaker 2: we're going to go take it right.

702
00:37:46,239 --> 00:37:50,000
Speaker 1: Yeah, And you know that played out by eventually with

703
00:37:50,120 --> 00:37:53,520
Speaker 1: Operation Barbarossa with the invasion of the Soviet Union in

704
00:37:53,600 --> 00:37:57,640
Speaker 1: June nineteen forty one. Some people say like, and you know,

705
00:37:57,640 --> 00:38:00,839
Speaker 1: of course this sounds completely ridiculou to think up now

706
00:38:00,920 --> 00:38:03,879
Speaker 1: with hindsight. But some people are like, you know, the

707
00:38:03,960 --> 00:38:08,960
Speaker 1: UK could have allied with Germany early on. They I mean,

708
00:38:09,239 --> 00:38:11,600
Speaker 1: I think one of the reasons they didn't. It's not

709
00:38:11,719 --> 00:38:13,759
Speaker 1: because they knew this Hitler guy was a madman. Again,

710
00:38:13,800 --> 00:38:16,040
Speaker 1: that came later. It was because of the colonies that

711
00:38:16,040 --> 00:38:17,880
Speaker 1: you were talking about that they had all over the world, right,

712
00:38:18,640 --> 00:38:22,120
Speaker 1: Germany also had colonies all over the world, and they

713
00:38:22,160 --> 00:38:27,719
Speaker 1: had a conflict. I think Britain wasn't gonna say here,

714
00:38:28,040 --> 00:38:30,360
Speaker 1: why don't you, why don't you take our African colonies?

715
00:38:30,800 --> 00:38:34,520
Speaker 1: And Germany definitely didn't like the way Britain looked at race.

716
00:38:35,160 --> 00:38:37,719
Speaker 1: They had a pretty different idea on that. And so

717
00:38:38,480 --> 00:38:40,360
Speaker 1: if they had any kind of alliance, they would have

718
00:38:40,400 --> 00:38:46,200
Speaker 1: had surrendered their liberal imperialism and they really weakened their

719
00:38:46,239 --> 00:38:48,120
Speaker 1: status as in international superpower.

720
00:38:48,200 --> 00:38:49,840
Speaker 2: Yeah, they would have had to fall in line with

721
00:38:49,920 --> 00:38:53,440
Speaker 2: basically the way Germany viewed the world. Yeah, just wrapping

722
00:38:53,480 --> 00:38:55,880
Speaker 2: your mind around that is not easy to do. Like

723
00:38:55,920 --> 00:38:59,640
Speaker 2: the UK doing that, and Kyle, who's our man on

724
00:38:59,680 --> 00:39:00,680
Speaker 2: the end in the.

725
00:39:00,640 --> 00:39:03,600
Speaker 1: UK, right, Yeah, he's right in I six agent exactly.

726
00:39:03,719 --> 00:39:06,240
Speaker 2: He pointed something out that I thought was pretty interesting

727
00:39:06,280 --> 00:39:08,440
Speaker 2: too that he basically said, the fact that Crystal knocked

728
00:39:08,880 --> 00:39:11,480
Speaker 2: and the news of what the Germany had done to

729
00:39:11,520 --> 00:39:14,960
Speaker 2: its own Jewish citizens, Yeah, how that turned British public

730
00:39:15,000 --> 00:39:18,719
Speaker 2: opinion just basically showed like, even if Britain did try

731
00:39:18,760 --> 00:39:21,719
Speaker 2: to allie with Germany, it was never going to work out. Yeah,

732
00:39:21,719 --> 00:39:23,640
Speaker 2: it was probably the least likely of all of it.

733
00:39:23,920 --> 00:39:26,560
Speaker 2: And then also, Chuck, you can't help us being Americans

734
00:39:26,560 --> 00:39:29,719
Speaker 2: to wonder could America have sat out World War two?

735
00:39:30,400 --> 00:39:34,680
Speaker 1: Yeah, you know, we declared war after Pearl Harbor on

736
00:39:34,840 --> 00:39:39,759
Speaker 1: Imperial Japan. That followed or following that, Germany declared war

737
00:39:39,760 --> 00:39:43,560
Speaker 1: on US in December nineteen forty one, and you know,

738
00:39:43,800 --> 00:39:48,319
Speaker 1: maybe we could have evaded getting involved in the European theater.

739
00:39:49,320 --> 00:39:52,440
Speaker 1: We definitely got mired in the Pacific theater with Japan.

740
00:39:53,520 --> 00:39:55,640
Speaker 1: We weren't really It's not like the US wasn't on

741
00:39:55,680 --> 00:39:58,200
Speaker 1: the Nazis radar, but we weren't really a big part

742
00:39:58,239 --> 00:40:00,640
Speaker 1: of their foreign policy in the nineteen thirties. Yet right,

743
00:40:01,280 --> 00:40:04,120
Speaker 1: because again, isolationism was kind of our bag at the time.

744
00:40:04,560 --> 00:40:07,120
Speaker 1: Our army wasn't very big. We had in nineteen forty

745
00:40:07,120 --> 00:40:09,560
Speaker 1: we had five divisions compared to Germany's one hundred and

746
00:40:09,560 --> 00:40:14,319
Speaker 1: forty one. And Congress definitely was not going to like

747
00:40:14,320 --> 00:40:18,439
Speaker 1: get behind Roosevelt entering the European theater at the time.

748
00:40:18,480 --> 00:40:21,560
Speaker 1: So there were a lot of reasons why it looked

749
00:40:21,600 --> 00:40:24,080
Speaker 1: like the US maybe could have avoided that mess.

750
00:40:24,560 --> 00:40:29,799
Speaker 2: Yeah, but historians say probably we were going to get

751
00:40:29,840 --> 00:40:32,000
Speaker 2: drawn in one way or another, because, like you said,

752
00:40:32,480 --> 00:40:36,080
Speaker 2: Germany did declare war on the US essentially to show

753
00:40:36,160 --> 00:40:38,200
Speaker 2: Japan like, hey, we're in this together. You guys, just

754
00:40:38,239 --> 00:40:40,759
Speaker 2: handle the US. So that was going to happen, whether

755
00:40:40,800 --> 00:40:43,120
Speaker 2: we tried to stay out of it or not. And

756
00:40:43,160 --> 00:40:46,960
Speaker 2: then he also knew that we were a threat and

757
00:40:47,360 --> 00:40:51,120
Speaker 2: that we would eventually be online armament wise to really

758
00:40:51,160 --> 00:40:54,960
Speaker 2: make a significant contribution. He predicted by nineteen forty two.

759
00:40:55,040 --> 00:40:57,560
Speaker 2: I think we started before then. And then even more

760
00:40:57,600 --> 00:41:02,000
Speaker 2: than that, Roosevelt was already giving permission for US battleships

761
00:41:02,000 --> 00:41:06,160
Speaker 2: to shoot and destroy U boats that were operating in

762
00:41:06,200 --> 00:41:09,719
Speaker 2: the Atlantic because they had started targeting American shipping and

763
00:41:09,800 --> 00:41:12,439
Speaker 2: Hitler was not very happy about that, So the US

764
00:41:12,520 --> 00:41:14,680
Speaker 2: was probably not going to be able to stay out

765
00:41:14,719 --> 00:41:15,479
Speaker 2: of World War two.

766
00:41:15,920 --> 00:41:16,640
Speaker 1: Yeah, for sure.

767
00:41:17,239 --> 00:41:21,600
Speaker 2: The alternate history, I guess that gets meatchuck is was

768
00:41:21,760 --> 00:41:26,680
Speaker 2: the earliest when Germany remilitarized the Rhineland and flagrant violation

769
00:41:26,800 --> 00:41:31,680
Speaker 2: of the Treaty of Versailles. Had the UK and France intervened,

770
00:41:32,160 --> 00:41:35,239
Speaker 2: this is nineteen thirty six. I mean, imagine if they

771
00:41:35,239 --> 00:41:38,840
Speaker 2: had just done something then and contained Hitler then, and

772
00:41:39,160 --> 00:41:42,759
Speaker 2: remember there was this courtship period or whatever, where you know,

773
00:41:42,920 --> 00:41:46,080
Speaker 2: Germany hadn't really wasn't really sure about Hitler at the time.

774
00:41:46,280 --> 00:41:49,280
Speaker 2: Had he been undermined that thoroughly on the international stage,

775
00:41:49,480 --> 00:41:52,320
Speaker 2: who knows would have happened to him as the leader

776
00:41:52,360 --> 00:41:55,960
Speaker 2: of Germany, right, And they could have done something because

777
00:41:56,120 --> 00:41:59,239
Speaker 2: at the time France had one hundred thousand troops near

778
00:41:59,280 --> 00:42:03,200
Speaker 2: the border with Ryanland. Germany only moved thirty five thousand

779
00:42:03,280 --> 00:42:07,040
Speaker 2: troops into the area. Prints could easily repel that and

780
00:42:07,520 --> 00:42:09,480
Speaker 2: been like, it's your move, Germany, what are you gonna do?

781
00:42:09,960 --> 00:42:12,879
Speaker 2: And Germany might not have done anything. And even if

782
00:42:13,080 --> 00:42:17,480
Speaker 2: Hitler had done something, it probably would have been against

783
00:42:17,840 --> 00:42:21,840
Speaker 2: the advice of his military advisors. So now he would

784
00:42:21,840 --> 00:42:24,759
Speaker 2: have personally been taking Germany to war. That's a lot

785
00:42:24,760 --> 00:42:28,719
Speaker 2: to seek your reputation on. And that one thing in

786
00:42:28,800 --> 00:42:32,640
Speaker 2: nineteen thirty six could have completely avoided the death of

787
00:42:32,880 --> 00:42:36,399
Speaker 2: tens of millions of people and it didn't do it

788
00:42:36,640 --> 00:42:40,239
Speaker 2: because of internal left right politics.

789
00:42:40,760 --> 00:42:44,680
Speaker 1: Wow, oh man, that that was good stuff. Like this

790
00:42:44,719 --> 00:42:46,239
Speaker 1: is my favorite kind of stuff. You should know when

791
00:42:46,640 --> 00:42:50,240
Speaker 1: forty five minutes later, like I know, probably one hundred

792
00:42:50,239 --> 00:42:52,279
Speaker 1: percent more than I knew before about World War Two.

793
00:42:52,640 --> 00:42:55,400
Speaker 2: Very nice, Chuck. Yeah, I didn't know almost any of

794
00:42:55,400 --> 00:42:58,359
Speaker 2: this either. I love that stuff too. And I know

795
00:42:58,400 --> 00:43:00,479
Speaker 2: we just talked about the US and in the UK

796
00:43:00,680 --> 00:43:03,560
Speaker 2: and France's alternate history. But if you want to come

797
00:43:03,640 --> 00:43:05,680
Speaker 2: up with an alternate history of for World War Two

798
00:43:05,719 --> 00:43:09,160
Speaker 2: in your country, let us know, hit the history textbooks

799
00:43:09,160 --> 00:43:11,439
Speaker 2: and come back with what you got. And we'd love

800
00:43:11,480 --> 00:43:13,520
Speaker 2: to get that kind of thing. In the meantime, while

801
00:43:13,520 --> 00:43:16,800
Speaker 2: we're waiting for your listener mail, we'll listen to Chuck

802
00:43:16,960 --> 00:43:18,520
Speaker 2: with a new listener mail.

803
00:43:20,880 --> 00:43:23,560
Speaker 1: Yeah, somebody just sends this man in the High Castle

804
00:43:24,760 --> 00:43:27,919
Speaker 1: no plagars and please, which I never saw or read.

805
00:43:28,200 --> 00:43:30,319
Speaker 2: I didn't either, but it's supposed to be pretty good.

806
00:43:30,520 --> 00:43:32,239
Speaker 1: Yeah, maybe I'll check that out at some point. It

807
00:43:32,239 --> 00:43:33,520
Speaker 1: sounds like it'd be right up my own.

808
00:43:33,520 --> 00:43:35,960
Speaker 2: It's too depressing for me, that kind of stuff. That Yeah,

809
00:43:36,080 --> 00:43:39,640
Speaker 2: and like things that normalize billionaires, I can't take it anymore.

810
00:43:41,280 --> 00:43:45,880
Speaker 1: Like d Snyder, All right, what is this? This is

811
00:43:46,040 --> 00:43:49,560
Speaker 1: from Chris? Oh yeah, this is just a nice thing. Hey, guys,

812
00:43:49,600 --> 00:43:53,000
Speaker 1: wanted to write in for a while now. First of all,

813
00:43:53,080 --> 00:43:55,160
Speaker 1: I always appreciate the wide variety of topics you cover,

814
00:43:55,760 --> 00:43:58,160
Speaker 1: especially the ones born of your own natural curiosities. As

815
00:43:58,160 --> 00:44:00,560
Speaker 1: a former middle school science teacher, I saw my primary

816
00:44:00,640 --> 00:44:03,400
Speaker 1: role as instilling curiosity in my students and modeling for

817
00:44:03,440 --> 00:44:06,399
Speaker 1: them how to chase those curiosities, and your approach really

818
00:44:06,560 --> 00:44:09,120
Speaker 1: resonates with me. But the one thing I didn't pay

819
00:44:09,160 --> 00:44:10,880
Speaker 1: enough attention to back when I was in the classroom

820
00:44:10,920 --> 00:44:13,239
Speaker 1: was the art of communication that you guys display in

821
00:44:13,280 --> 00:44:16,280
Speaker 1: every episode. If I still had a classroom full of students,

822
00:44:16,320 --> 00:44:18,280
Speaker 1: I would use your show not only for the content,

823
00:44:18,840 --> 00:44:22,120
Speaker 1: but also for lessons in respectful communication. So much discourse

824
00:44:22,120 --> 00:44:24,600
Speaker 1: we hear today is loud and angry and doesn't give

825
00:44:24,600 --> 00:44:27,239
Speaker 1: people space to express themselves without being interrupted, mocked, or

826
00:44:27,480 --> 00:44:31,400
Speaker 1: refuted somehow, you guys seamlessly pass the baton of communication

827
00:44:32,040 --> 00:44:34,799
Speaker 1: to one another without speaking over one another, contradicting each

828
00:44:34,840 --> 00:44:39,520
Speaker 1: other's in complete thoughts or negotiating the communication flow through

829
00:44:39,520 --> 00:44:42,319
Speaker 1: general awkwardness. Even when one of you have a follow

830
00:44:42,400 --> 00:44:45,080
Speaker 1: up comment that may provide a differing or correcting perspective,

831
00:44:45,480 --> 00:44:47,200
Speaker 1: you always give space for the other to finish their

832
00:44:47,239 --> 00:44:49,879
Speaker 1: thought before weighing in, and the follow up comments are

833
00:44:50,000 --> 00:44:54,520
Speaker 1: thoughtfully delivered and received. Thanks so much for all you do.

834
00:44:54,560 --> 00:44:58,000
Speaker 1: I appreciate your authentic, respectful delivery of interesting content. You

835
00:44:58,080 --> 00:45:00,880
Speaker 1: guys keep my brain awake and smiling. And that is

836
00:45:00,920 --> 00:45:05,879
Speaker 1: from Chris Christine Sewell in Bloomington, Illinois And Chris. One

837
00:45:05,880 --> 00:45:09,880
Speaker 1: of the reasons is because we almost always agree with

838
00:45:09,920 --> 00:45:12,600
Speaker 1: each other on this stuff. I disagree, so it makes

839
00:45:12,640 --> 00:45:13,680
Speaker 1: it kind of easy.

840
00:45:14,320 --> 00:45:17,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, no, for sure. And that's something that still kind

841
00:45:17,080 --> 00:45:20,440
Speaker 2: of surprises me to this day, where like just our

842
00:45:20,640 --> 00:45:25,560
Speaker 2: common view is so in step with one another. Where

843
00:45:25,600 --> 00:45:28,200
Speaker 2: I mean, like there's so many things that are different

844
00:45:28,239 --> 00:45:31,080
Speaker 2: about It's like our personalities are pretty different.

845
00:45:31,280 --> 00:45:31,960
Speaker 1: Bladly different.

846
00:45:32,120 --> 00:45:34,840
Speaker 2: Yeah, I would say, will we sure, I'll go with that, Okay,

847
00:45:34,880 --> 00:45:37,000
Speaker 2: But when you come down to like, what do you

848
00:45:37,000 --> 00:45:38,360
Speaker 2: think about this? What do you think about this? What

849
00:45:38,400 --> 00:45:41,040
Speaker 2: do you think about that? It's generally in the same

850
00:45:41,480 --> 00:45:43,640
Speaker 2: not even ballpark, in the same hot dog stand of

851
00:45:43,680 --> 00:45:44,480
Speaker 2: the same ballpark.

852
00:45:44,920 --> 00:45:46,480
Speaker 1: Yeah, I don't think the show would have worked for

853
00:45:46,520 --> 00:45:48,520
Speaker 1: so long if you and I just were sort of

854
00:45:48,560 --> 00:45:50,719
Speaker 1: at odds over every little thing. And I think that

855
00:45:50,840 --> 00:45:53,960
Speaker 1: stuff that Christine is talking about too is so much

856
00:45:54,000 --> 00:45:56,360
Speaker 1: of media today is set up to do that because

857
00:45:56,400 --> 00:45:59,200
Speaker 1: that gets ratings, I guess. So they'll put people that

858
00:45:59,239 --> 00:46:01,320
Speaker 1: they know have different viewpoints and put them down in

859
00:46:01,400 --> 00:46:03,080
Speaker 1: chairs next to each other and that's just like.

860
00:46:03,200 --> 00:46:07,000
Speaker 2: The Yeah, but it's like the Simpsons taught us, if

861
00:46:07,040 --> 00:46:10,480
Speaker 2: you just don't look, it'll eventually go away. So you

862
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Speaker 2: don't like that kind of media, just don't watch it.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, agreed.

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Speaker 2: Well, thank you Chris. That was really really nice. We'd

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Speaker 2: love hearing that kind of stuff. That's just a really

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Speaker 2: kind email, and we thank you for it. If you

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Speaker 2: want to be like Chris and send us a kind email,

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Speaker 2: we are always open to receiving one of those. You

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Speaker 2: can send it off to Stuff Podcasts at iHeartRadio dot com.

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Speaker 1: Stuff you Should Know is a production of iHeartRadio. For

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Speaker 1: more podcasts, My heart Radio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcasts,

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Speaker 1: or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.