WEBVTT - Selects: Are good samaritan laws effective? 0:00:00.760 --> 0:00:03.880 Hey, everybody, it's me Josh, And for this week's selects, 0:00:03.920 --> 0:00:08.760 I've chosen how Good Samaritan Laws work. We dive into 0:00:08.840 --> 0:00:15.240 the weird, wacky, wild, extremely patchwork world of good Samaritan laws, 0:00:15.400 --> 0:00:18.120 laws that are meant to protect people who lend aid 0:00:18.280 --> 0:00:21.200 or help to other people in need. Sometimes as people 0:00:21.239 --> 0:00:23.239 in need are not too happy with the help that 0:00:23.280 --> 0:00:25.840 they get, and it creates all sorts of problems. So 0:00:25.920 --> 0:00:34.400 check out this really interesting episode and this week's select enjoy. 0:00:35.400 --> 0:00:38.199 Welcome to Stuff You Should Know, a production of I 0:00:38.320 --> 0:00:47.800 Heart Radio. Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh Clark, 0:00:47.840 --> 0:00:50.720 and there's Charles w. Chuck Bryant, and there's Jerry over there. 0:00:50.800 --> 0:00:54.040 And this is Stuff you should Know. Just a trio 0:00:54.240 --> 0:00:57.720 of helpful types who like to go around the world 0:00:57.760 --> 0:01:04.600 and escort people through crosswalks and get sued for it. 0:01:04.880 --> 0:01:08.640 Escorting someone to a busy intersection against the light right, 0:01:08.680 --> 0:01:10.199 and then you get to the other side and hold 0:01:10.200 --> 0:01:13.440 out your hand, say lay some bread on me, sucker. 0:01:13.760 --> 0:01:18.240 All these are bad ideas, they really are, they really are. 0:01:18.440 --> 0:01:20.720 But I mean we're full of those, aren't we, Chuck, Yeah, 0:01:21.280 --> 0:01:24.080 I mean just brimming with them. That's our log line 0:01:24.120 --> 0:01:28.040 to ten plus years of bad ideas, all right, or 0:01:28.400 --> 0:01:31.039 oh god, you've been listening to us this whole time? 0:01:31.080 --> 0:01:35.880 Are you crazy? Oh boy, So you're feeling pretty good 0:01:35.880 --> 0:01:39.960 about this one, because I gotta tell you I am. Yeah. 0:01:40.000 --> 0:01:45.240 I mean, if folks listen to our I think, dare 0:01:45.280 --> 0:01:48.640 I say it was a good episode on the very 0:01:48.680 --> 0:01:52.000 sad case of Kitty Genovese in New York. That was 0:01:52.040 --> 0:01:53.920 a good episode. You can go back and listen to that. 0:01:54.040 --> 0:01:57.400 And that's a pretty good setup because in that, just 0:01:57.440 --> 0:02:00.560 to recap very quickly, in the mid sixties, a young 0:02:00.600 --> 0:02:04.440 woman was was raped and killed in a very busy 0:02:04.800 --> 0:02:07.320 area of New York City, and uh, it was very 0:02:07.320 --> 0:02:11.400 famous because many many people um supposedly heard the attack, 0:02:11.600 --> 0:02:15.120 watched the attack, perhaps didn't do anything, made the news, 0:02:15.240 --> 0:02:18.680 and created something that they study still today. And uh 0:02:18.720 --> 0:02:22.520 in psychology classes called the bystander effect. Yeah, this this 0:02:22.720 --> 0:02:25.960 idea of responsibility diffusion where if you have a bunch 0:02:25.960 --> 0:02:30.079 of people standing around no one, everybody just assumed somebody 0:02:30.120 --> 0:02:33.040 else will help, and they don't help. Yeah, Joshua Clark 0:02:33.120 --> 0:02:36.520 or some help. Sure, leave it up to him. And 0:02:36.560 --> 0:02:39.040 I'm sitting there like, well, obviously Chuck's gonna help. He's 0:02:39.040 --> 0:02:41.920 a better person than me, and then we're both just 0:02:41.919 --> 0:02:44.600 staying there and do nothing. Yeah, in the meantime, Jerry's 0:02:44.639 --> 0:02:49.280 just laying there with like a jolly rancher in her throat, right, 0:02:49.840 --> 0:02:52.400 But everybody knows she can't talk anyway, so she can't 0:02:52.400 --> 0:02:54.359 call for help. It's very hard to tell sometimes that 0:02:54.480 --> 0:02:57.840 Jerry's in need of assistance, or if she's just being Jerry, right, 0:02:57.960 --> 0:03:02.880 or if she even exists. However, article says that, um, 0:03:02.919 --> 0:03:05.600 the bystander effect in this case in particular, led to 0:03:05.600 --> 0:03:08.200 the first good Samaritan laws in our country. Yeah, that 0:03:08.280 --> 0:03:11.079 is not true, because two years before that, right here 0:03:11.080 --> 0:03:13.880 in Georgia, our first laws went into effect. Yeah. The 0:03:14.320 --> 0:03:16.720 one I found that was the earliest was in nineteen 0:03:16.800 --> 0:03:20.760 fifty nine, five years before Kitty Geneviz was murdered, and 0:03:20.760 --> 0:03:24.280 that was in California, and that protected doctors who were 0:03:24.400 --> 0:03:29.560 administering aid in emergency situations. Hippie liberal elitist out there 0:03:29.880 --> 0:03:34.680 right the left coast. But but it's a weird thing 0:03:34.720 --> 0:03:39.040 to tie together the bystander effect and good Samaritan laws 0:03:39.080 --> 0:03:43.080 because they don't actually go together. They're not that you 0:03:43.240 --> 0:03:45.200 like you want them to fit together, but when you 0:03:45.280 --> 0:03:47.240 lay them side by side, you're like, oh, these are 0:03:47.680 --> 0:03:49.839 these are two different types of sea monkeys. I thought 0:03:49.840 --> 0:03:52.880 they were husband and wife, but they're not. Oh I 0:03:52.960 --> 0:03:56.400 see the correlation. I want to. My brain just won't 0:03:56.440 --> 0:04:00.280 quite make the the connection. Like if someone had race 0:04:00.400 --> 0:04:05.440 down to help Kitty Genevise and render her aid and 0:04:05.520 --> 0:04:07.800 not been a bystander, then they could You know that 0:04:07.920 --> 0:04:12.800 falls into the good Samaritan laws. It does, but really 0:04:12.840 --> 0:04:15.880 it falls more under like the duty to act laws, 0:04:15.960 --> 0:04:18.320 like you'll get in trouble if you if you are 0:04:18.440 --> 0:04:21.039 just a bystander if you don't do something, whereas a 0:04:21.080 --> 0:04:25.120 good Samaritan law basically says, if you do do something 0:04:25.560 --> 0:04:28.960 and you help Kitty Genevise or somebody who's in trouble 0:04:29.480 --> 0:04:34.440 and you make their situation worse, you can't be sued 0:04:34.560 --> 0:04:38.520 for for rendering eight because you were acting in good faith. 0:04:39.320 --> 0:04:41.839 So it's kind of there, but it's not quite. It 0:04:41.880 --> 0:04:45.200 doesn't click. I got you, you know what I'm saying. 0:04:45.360 --> 0:04:48.080 I hear you, all right, Okay, I just really wanted 0:04:48.080 --> 0:04:51.080 to get that off of my chest. Well, uh so, yeah, 0:04:51.160 --> 0:04:53.200 you just kind of said it like those those laws 0:04:53.200 --> 0:04:57.680 are in place now as protections generally, um, for American 0:04:57.800 --> 0:04:59.640 that they happened all over the world. We'll talk about 0:04:59.680 --> 0:05:01.680 a few of the laws here and there, but uh, 0:05:02.120 --> 0:05:05.719 all fifty states and Washington, d C. The the District 0:05:05.720 --> 0:05:08.360 of Columbia have some sort of laws on the books, 0:05:09.240 --> 0:05:14.680 uh that that you can basically be protected potentially and 0:05:14.760 --> 0:05:19.240 not held responsible for your actions even if they cause harm. 0:05:19.360 --> 0:05:24.080 But because it's state law if you're not American, I'm 0:05:24.080 --> 0:05:26.360 not sure how it works in all countries, but they 0:05:26.520 --> 0:05:29.000 the laws and from states to state on the same 0:05:29.040 --> 0:05:32.359 thing can vary wildly. Yeah, and certainly in this case, 0:05:32.600 --> 0:05:35.320 it's what they call a patchwork of state laws in 0:05:35.400 --> 0:05:38.839 need of a federal law for sure. Yeah, for sure. 0:05:39.279 --> 0:05:42.240 So because there's so many different laws in so many 0:05:42.279 --> 0:05:46.600 different states. Um, you know, if the actions that you 0:05:46.600 --> 0:05:49.400 you perform in one state might get you you know, 0:05:49.960 --> 0:05:51.760 you might get your mug on the front page of 0:05:51.760 --> 0:05:55.040 the paper being celebrated, and in another state your mugs 0:05:55.040 --> 0:05:56.880 on the front page of the paper because you just 0:05:56.920 --> 0:06:00.560 got sued, you know. So we'll we'll dive into that 0:06:00.600 --> 0:06:02.320 a little more. But first let's talk about where the 0:06:02.720 --> 0:06:05.800 name for the laws come from. Chalk. Yeah, I remember 0:06:05.839 --> 0:06:08.479 this story from my church going days as a kid. 0:06:09.520 --> 0:06:13.760 That really stood out to me back then, because uh, 0:06:13.839 --> 0:06:16.840 well it's in Luke and the story is is that 0:06:17.520 --> 0:06:21.400 a Jewish man was assaulted and robbed on the road 0:06:22.120 --> 0:06:26.160 and left for dead basically, and some people passed by 0:06:26.320 --> 0:06:32.040 without rendering aid. A Jewish priest and a levite, which 0:06:32.040 --> 0:06:34.839 is an assistant priest basically assistant to the priest. Do 0:06:34.920 --> 0:06:37.200 you have the impression that the priest and the levite 0:06:37.200 --> 0:06:39.880 were together, or that the priests passed and then at 0:06:39.920 --> 0:06:42.400 some point later on the levite passed. You know what 0:06:42.480 --> 0:06:45.440 this is going back a lot of years, dude. But 0:06:45.640 --> 0:06:49.280 if my memory is telling me that they were two 0:06:49.360 --> 0:06:53.040 separate things, Okay, I knew that question would pay you all. 0:06:54.160 --> 0:06:57.200 But I might be wrong, But my my old I 0:06:57.200 --> 0:06:59.720 still have some old church memories rattling around in this 0:07:00.520 --> 0:07:04.320 dusty noggin. He just saw like smoke come out of 0:07:04.320 --> 0:07:07.520 my ears. I thought that was a flower. Oh sure, well, 0:07:07.520 --> 0:07:12.320 I'm gluten free though, Oh are you? No, Emily is so, 0:07:12.400 --> 0:07:14.640 But by default I sometimes I am right, sure, No, 0:07:14.720 --> 0:07:17.840 I know what you mean. You know that goes. But finally, 0:07:18.360 --> 0:07:21.200 as the story goes, a Samaritan. Um, that is, a 0:07:21.240 --> 0:07:25.320 person from Samaria who were bitter enemies of the Jews, 0:07:26.080 --> 0:07:30.440 came by, and what did he do? He said, Hey, buddy, 0:07:30.640 --> 0:07:32.760 you look like you're having a pretty rotten day. Let 0:07:32.760 --> 0:07:35.040 me help you out, that's right. And he did. He 0:07:35.400 --> 0:07:38.400 not only said here, let me let me pick you 0:07:38.480 --> 0:07:41.520 up and get you out of this dusty road. Um, 0:07:42.160 --> 0:07:44.520 I'm gonna take you to an inn. And not only 0:07:44.560 --> 0:07:46.600 am I gonna do that, I'm gonna pay for your 0:07:46.680 --> 0:07:49.400 room at the end. And then I'm gonna say it, 0:07:49.440 --> 0:07:53.600 bid you a good day and good health. Audios enemy. 0:07:53.720 --> 0:07:57.880 And he did. Imagine this chuck this good Samaritan story. 0:07:58.360 --> 0:08:01.480 It's entirely possible that the actually took place, That this 0:08:01.560 --> 0:08:03.840 is a real story that happened, right, it's not just 0:08:04.080 --> 0:08:08.480 a parable. Imagine if you were that guy, that Samaritan 0:08:08.560 --> 0:08:12.360 who did this thing, this act of goodwill, and two 0:08:12.440 --> 0:08:16.200 thousand years later, people around the world are still talking 0:08:16.200 --> 0:08:19.840 about it. How great would that happy? You know? Yeah, 0:08:19.880 --> 0:08:23.400 like twenty minutes after our show ends, no one's going 0:08:23.480 --> 0:08:27.400 to talk about it, right, you know, just like all 0:08:27.400 --> 0:08:30.520 of this the talk shows, we've been on the kiss 0:08:30.520 --> 0:08:34.880 of death that we have, Uh, but yeah, for sure. 0:08:34.920 --> 0:08:37.000 I mean every even if you are like the most 0:08:37.679 --> 0:08:41.240 atheistic agnostic human on earth. You've heard of the story 0:08:41.240 --> 0:08:42.960 of the Good Samaritan. It's just one of those things 0:08:43.040 --> 0:08:46.880 that is is transcended religion into pop culture. Yeah, and 0:08:46.920 --> 0:08:48.880 I had never known that at the time. Like you said, 0:08:48.920 --> 0:08:52.040 the Jews and the Samaritans hated each other um And 0:08:52.080 --> 0:08:55.120 apparently I looked it up. They really really did not 0:08:55.240 --> 0:08:57.640 like each other. It wasn't just like over religious stuff, 0:08:57.640 --> 0:09:01.160 it was over political stuff too, and how those things intertwined. 0:09:01.200 --> 0:09:03.840 So they really did not get along. So not only 0:09:04.120 --> 0:09:06.800 did this guy help somebody in need, he helped an 0:09:06.920 --> 0:09:10.200 an enemy in need. So I think he does deserve 0:09:10.240 --> 0:09:14.319 to be to be commemorated for eons over that. Sure, 0:09:14.920 --> 0:09:16.760 But that's where the name of the law comes from. 0:09:16.920 --> 0:09:20.240 Good Samaritan laws are when you stop and help somebody, 0:09:20.240 --> 0:09:22.880 whether it's your enemy or your friend, um, in an 0:09:22.880 --> 0:09:27.720 emergency situation, typically you are you should not be penalized 0:09:28.280 --> 0:09:34.360 if your good intentions cause further harm, right, which seems 0:09:34.520 --> 0:09:38.440 very much like a no brainer, But it is complicated. 0:09:39.600 --> 0:09:42.760 The more you read into this stuff, the more you're like, man, 0:09:42.800 --> 0:09:45.880 there's a lot of nuance to to the variations of 0:09:46.120 --> 0:09:48.320 these laws. Yeah, the more you read into it, the 0:09:48.360 --> 0:09:50.520 more you're like, I am going to end up second 0:09:50.520 --> 0:09:54.000 guessing myself the next time I'm faced with an emergency situation. 0:09:54.440 --> 0:09:56.800 Like I hadn't thought about it before, but it's like, yeah, 0:09:56.840 --> 0:09:59.960 you could totally get sued for helping somebody out, depending 0:10:00.040 --> 0:10:03.319 on where you are. Yeah, I've never come across this, 0:10:03.600 --> 0:10:10.079 not even close. What an emergency situation I have I have, Yeah, 0:10:10.240 --> 0:10:12.800 it was. I was one of many at an accident. 0:10:12.840 --> 0:10:14.640 I witnessed the accident. It was like one of those 0:10:14.640 --> 0:10:16.760 things where you see it happening, you just see it 0:10:16.800 --> 0:10:20.080 in slow motion and you're just like trying to will 0:10:20.120 --> 0:10:22.240 it to stop with your body and it doesn't work. 0:10:22.640 --> 0:10:25.040 It was a man who got tebowed by another car 0:10:25.120 --> 0:10:29.080 that he didn't see coming. Um and uh. I was 0:10:29.120 --> 0:10:31.240 one of the people on the scene kind of helping out. 0:10:31.840 --> 0:10:34.640 It didn't even occur to me that that that that 0:10:34.720 --> 0:10:36.960 man could be Like these people hurt me, you know, 0:10:37.160 --> 0:10:39.680 in in helping I didn't touch the guy or anything 0:10:39.720 --> 0:10:43.240 like that, but I mean other people were, and um, 0:10:43.280 --> 0:10:45.040 you know, we called for help and all that, so 0:10:45.200 --> 0:10:47.680 I think we did it about as good as you can, 0:10:48.360 --> 0:10:52.120 but nothing about the situation was like, well I need 0:10:52.160 --> 0:10:54.480 to I need to watch out for my legal exposure here, 0:10:55.240 --> 0:10:59.320 like something real quick, right where what state in my end? 0:10:59.400 --> 0:11:02.040 Let me just check out what's going on as this, 0:11:02.200 --> 0:11:05.400 like you know, person is bleeding in the street right exactly, 0:11:05.720 --> 0:11:08.280 But it is nuanced and and after reading some of 0:11:08.280 --> 0:11:10.720 these examples, I I you know, I get both sides 0:11:11.000 --> 0:11:14.440 of the coin for sure. So I mean, for example, 0:11:14.520 --> 0:11:18.200 like there are a couple of things that all of 0:11:18.240 --> 0:11:22.559 this patchwork of of um of Good Samaritan laws will 0:11:22.600 --> 0:11:26.199 will have in common basically two as this article states. 0:11:26.760 --> 0:11:30.200 One is that you can't be compensated for helping out. 0:11:31.040 --> 0:11:33.120 And that's a pretty literal reading of the law. I 0:11:33.120 --> 0:11:38.240 think it's meant to exempt emergency workers, paramedics, doctors, like 0:11:38.280 --> 0:11:41.160 they they've got their their whole own set of laws 0:11:41.320 --> 0:11:44.720 governing their actions or inactions, right, so to keep them 0:11:44.760 --> 0:11:48.800 from giving preferential treatment. I think it's mostly to say 0:11:48.880 --> 0:11:51.280 this is meant to um. This is this is my 0:11:51.320 --> 0:11:54.480 interpretation of it, UM. But from what I've seen with 0:11:54.520 --> 0:11:57.560 Good Samaritan laws, it's it's totally in the eye of 0:11:57.559 --> 0:12:01.120 the beholder. But the the that's to say, like, this 0:12:01.280 --> 0:12:05.600 covers non medical professionals, is who we're talking about, And 0:12:05.640 --> 0:12:08.840 to to define that, they're saying this is this covers 0:12:08.840 --> 0:12:11.800 somebody who isn't compensated for their assistance, and that's been 0:12:11.840 --> 0:12:16.280 transmuted into you can't be compensated for your assistance or 0:12:16.320 --> 0:12:20.080 else that that leaves you exposed to legal action later. 0:12:20.480 --> 0:12:23.120 So when you were sort of kidding around at the beginning, though, 0:12:23.120 --> 0:12:25.800 but if you saved, Let's say you perform the Heimli 0:12:25.920 --> 0:12:29.440 at a restaurant and the persons like, man, you just 0:12:29.440 --> 0:12:33.760 save my life. Here's a here's a finsky. Don't take 0:12:33.840 --> 0:12:36.560 that five dollar bill and also throw it back in 0:12:36.600 --> 0:12:38.560 their face and say this is what your life is worth, 0:12:38.760 --> 0:12:43.000 right exactly? And they say, yeah, I don't really love myself. Well, 0:12:43.320 --> 0:12:46.120 then then you introduced them to a good analyst and 0:12:46.360 --> 0:12:50.280 go about your day. Analysts. What is that? What do 0:12:50.440 --> 0:12:53.440 I New Yorker in the seventies, You sound like Carrie Green. 0:12:53.720 --> 0:12:56.800 Nobody says analyst anymore. It was weird. And I think 0:12:56.800 --> 0:13:01.920 that's what Bob Newhart was, was he? I think I 0:13:01.960 --> 0:13:04.720 think yeah, he did consider himself as an analyst. That 0:13:04.760 --> 0:13:08.080 seems like an antiquated term. Though, yes, now it's therapist, 0:13:08.240 --> 0:13:12.280 right or shrink Yeah yeah, shrink head shrinker, I think 0:13:12.360 --> 0:13:15.160 is the preferred term. Yeah, I don't know, I would 0:13:15.160 --> 0:13:18.640 have been in a while. Oh yeah, years. It's good. 0:13:18.920 --> 0:13:20.839 It's good. Good to go talk to people, you know 0:13:20.880 --> 0:13:22.440 what I mean? Like, yeah, but I got it all 0:13:22.559 --> 0:13:25.440 figured out now. Oh well, that's good. You're cured is 0:13:25.480 --> 0:13:27.600 what they call that. They cured me. I hope they 0:13:27.640 --> 0:13:30.360 gave your shrinking award. Do you know what the cure is? 0:13:30.800 --> 0:13:34.320 What is not really thinking about things too much? Yeah, 0:13:34.320 --> 0:13:37.240 that's a good, that's good advice. Now, I'm just kidding 0:13:37.240 --> 0:13:39.840 because people have real problems, but I never have had 0:13:39.880 --> 0:13:42.360 the real problems. Yeah yeah, yeah, but I think like 0:13:42.440 --> 0:13:44.880 even if you don't have like real problems, if you 0:13:44.920 --> 0:13:47.600 don't have like, you know, some sort of chemical imbalance 0:13:47.720 --> 0:13:51.320 or diagnosable condition, just about anybody can benefit from time 0:13:51.320 --> 0:13:55.160 to time to go just talk. It's not even necessarily 0:13:55.160 --> 0:13:58.040 the counselor helping us. Just being in a situation where 0:13:58.080 --> 0:14:01.360 you're talking out loud and walking through your problems to 0:14:01.400 --> 0:14:04.640 find out what you actually think. It's very helpful. Yeah, 0:14:04.640 --> 0:14:06.199 I mean I do that at my doctor and my 0:14:06.280 --> 0:14:09.440 dentist and they're like, dude, we don't want to hear this. 0:14:09.480 --> 0:14:12.440 Go see see an analyst. You're like, well, I know 0:14:12.520 --> 0:14:17.120 I'm knocking out two birds of once time. So uh 0:14:17.280 --> 0:14:18.880 all right, let's go over just a couple of these. 0:14:18.920 --> 0:14:21.240 I mean, like we said, they're they're different everywhere. But 0:14:22.800 --> 0:14:25.400 there was one other thing, chuck, Okay, So I said 0:14:25.440 --> 0:14:27.160 that there were two things in common, and one of 0:14:27.200 --> 0:14:30.320 them as you can't be competition. The other one, almost 0:14:30.320 --> 0:14:33.160 across the board with any any law you're gonna find 0:14:33.360 --> 0:14:38.360 is that you can't act recklessly, recklessly negligently. Wow, that's 0:14:38.360 --> 0:14:41.520 tough to get out. You would not hold up in court. 0:14:44.120 --> 0:14:46.240 I'd be like, give me my five dollars as your lawyer, 0:14:46.400 --> 0:14:48.160 or maybe that's your defense. You're like your honor, I 0:14:48.160 --> 0:14:54.000 can't even says and nigluch um. Yeah, those are two 0:14:54.000 --> 0:14:57.240 important uh factors for these laws for sure. Yeah, Like 0:14:57.400 --> 0:14:59.560 that's that's what they all have in common generally, right, 0:14:59.760 --> 0:15:03.080 that's right. But from there, like if you go to Oklahoma, 0:15:03.160 --> 0:15:10.560 let's say, you're only um given protection if you are untrained, 0:15:12.200 --> 0:15:15.600 Like you're just a regular person, right, You're not a 0:15:15.600 --> 0:15:19.320 a medic let's say, or a doctor, and only if 0:15:19.320 --> 0:15:23.400 you're giving CPR or trying to stop blood laws. Right, 0:15:23.520 --> 0:15:27.240 that's weirdly specific. I've seen that, like, um, that that's 0:15:27.080 --> 0:15:29.280 that's you could say that that was the third thing 0:15:29.320 --> 0:15:31.720 that they all have in common, Like, if you're administering 0:15:31.760 --> 0:15:36.000 CPR or something really basic that any person would want 0:15:36.040 --> 0:15:39.320 to do or try to do, Um, you're probably protected 0:15:39.320 --> 0:15:42.680 by a good Samaritan law. Yeah, and defribrillators are covered 0:15:42.720 --> 0:15:45.360 in a lot of these laws. Since those have really 0:15:45.400 --> 0:15:48.640 gotten I guess just more common, like the you know, 0:15:48.720 --> 0:15:51.400 the and I looked into buying one of those. They're 0:15:51.400 --> 0:15:56.280 expensive though, Yeah, you looked into buying one. Yeah, just 0:15:56.360 --> 0:15:58.880 carry around with you, No, not to carry around, but 0:15:58.960 --> 0:16:04.280 to to have of like not in my car. I 0:16:04.320 --> 0:16:06.640 got you. Um, so you could yeah, I mean you 0:16:06.640 --> 0:16:08.400 could help somebody stranding on the side of the road 0:16:08.400 --> 0:16:10.920 with a jumper cable or get their ticket going. Again. 0:16:11.640 --> 0:16:14.280 The key I've heard is that when you're when you're 0:16:14.320 --> 0:16:17.040 setting them up to be defibrillated, you have to shout 0:16:17.040 --> 0:16:21.240 hot stuff right before you engage it. I thought they 0:16:21.280 --> 0:16:23.640 would be like three or four hundred bucks. How much 0:16:23.640 --> 0:16:26.400 are they? I don't I mean thousands of dollars. I 0:16:26.400 --> 0:16:29.080 can't remember how many thousands, but it was enough to 0:16:29.080 --> 0:16:32.120 where I just kind of closed the browser and went 0:16:33.440 --> 0:16:35.720 and a coold News or something. Well, you know, God 0:16:35.720 --> 0:16:39.040 bless those malls in America having them every ten feet 0:16:39.040 --> 0:16:41.920 and keeping us all safe. Sure, I'm sure their insurance 0:16:42.200 --> 0:16:46.520 helps pay for that. I guess you, cynic Uh. Here's 0:16:46.520 --> 0:16:50.680 another one in Vermont. You can be fined actually if 0:16:50.760 --> 0:16:53.920 you are a bystander and don't do anything. I kind 0:16:53.920 --> 0:16:56.440 of love this one. Yeah, this is this is what 0:16:56.560 --> 0:16:59.680 I think the law should be. You know, get a 0:16:59.680 --> 0:17:02.800 penalty unless you're jumping in there. Yeah, and I mean 0:17:02.840 --> 0:17:06.200 obviously not putting your own life in jeopardy. Like this 0:17:06.240 --> 0:17:08.560 is not like if you see somebody getting mugged you 0:17:08.680 --> 0:17:11.240 have to go wrestle the gun away from the guy, 0:17:11.640 --> 0:17:15.240 or jumping into the frozen Potomac River. Sure, but that 0:17:15.359 --> 0:17:17.560 if you see someone in need and you just keep 0:17:17.600 --> 0:17:20.840 walking by, you should you should suffer some sort of 0:17:20.880 --> 0:17:24.400 consequence for that. You should act um that. I mean, 0:17:25.000 --> 0:17:28.040 this is a this is a very slippery slope right here, 0:17:28.080 --> 0:17:32.040 because compelling people to act, that's that's a big that's 0:17:32.040 --> 0:17:35.360 a big infringement on personal liberty. But at the same time, 0:17:35.400 --> 0:17:38.439 it's kind of like, come on, you know, if you 0:17:38.480 --> 0:17:41.480 have to invigorate somebody's humanity with a little bit of 0:17:41.560 --> 0:17:45.040 law here there, I'm kind of in favor of the UM. 0:17:45.080 --> 0:17:47.560 One of my favorite stories that I can ever see 0:17:47.640 --> 0:17:51.600 on any news program is when you see a group 0:17:51.640 --> 0:17:55.600 of people coming together to like, and saving people is 0:17:55.600 --> 0:17:57.359 great too, but like to pull a goat out of 0:17:57.359 --> 0:17:59.879 a river or something, and there's like the guy with 0:17:59.880 --> 0:18:02.240 the truck and another guy's like, I got rope, and 0:18:02.320 --> 0:18:06.240 this lady comes up and it's like I'm a goat whisperer. Uh, 0:18:06.280 --> 0:18:08.280 and they all like you see like six or eight 0:18:08.320 --> 0:18:11.480 strangers come together to to rescue like an animal. Yeah, 0:18:11.720 --> 0:18:13.840 but they tied the best, they tied the not too 0:18:13.840 --> 0:18:16.239 tight and accidentally pull the goat in two and then 0:18:16.280 --> 0:18:20.440 they got susy. That's how it goes. Uh. And then 0:18:20.520 --> 0:18:25.040 Michigan just forget about it, like it is so convoluted 0:18:25.080 --> 0:18:31.400 and weird. In Michigan, UM, they protect people who declined 0:18:31.400 --> 0:18:37.159 to offer assistance, but then they also protect like what 0:18:37.280 --> 0:18:42.160 is it ski patrol um? What else? There's like three 0:18:42.280 --> 0:18:46.120 very weirdly specific If you're a block parent, which means 0:18:46.440 --> 0:18:49.080 you your house is designated as a safe place. You know, 0:18:49.119 --> 0:18:51.480 the safe place signs that you see on seven elevens 0:18:51.480 --> 0:18:53.920 and stuff. I never noticed. It's if you're a little 0:18:54.000 --> 0:18:56.720 kid and you some some stranger, danger guy in a 0:18:56.760 --> 0:18:59.040 trench coat is following you, you can run into a 0:18:59.080 --> 0:19:02.280 thing that has a safe ace and they will protect 0:19:02.359 --> 0:19:05.640 you and all the cops and call your parents. In Michigan, 0:19:05.680 --> 0:19:08.800 I guess you can volunteer as a person whose house 0:19:08.880 --> 0:19:12.360 is a safe place and you're you're exempted through Good 0:19:12.400 --> 0:19:15.359 Samaritan laws, right, but you show up and they're like, 0:19:15.800 --> 0:19:18.880 you're in a house state fan, right, you can't come 0:19:18.880 --> 0:19:24.720 in uh so potential as sisters, medical personnel block parent 0:19:24.840 --> 0:19:29.240 volunteers and National Ski Patrol in Michigan, or if you're 0:19:29.240 --> 0:19:33.800 giving CPR or using an emergency defibrillator. Again, I think 0:19:33.840 --> 0:19:36.800 that's pretty well. That's like covered almost across the board. 0:19:37.000 --> 0:19:38.800 That's like the one area that they just want to 0:19:38.800 --> 0:19:42.320 make sure that everyone once you know, we would jump 0:19:42.359 --> 0:19:44.280 in on. Yeah, I think so. And I think that's 0:19:44.320 --> 0:19:46.280 one of the reasons why they make them so prominent 0:19:46.440 --> 0:19:48.720 in in public. I mean, it's not like you have 0:19:48.760 --> 0:19:51.000 to break glass and there's like a fire hose that 0:19:51.040 --> 0:19:52.600 you have to know how to get off and turn 0:19:52.640 --> 0:19:54.760 the thing on, like it's meant for the public to 0:19:54.800 --> 0:19:58.480 go grab and use, not just for emergency personnel, because 0:19:58.800 --> 0:20:02.800 using a defibrillator in a in a timely manner has 0:20:02.840 --> 0:20:05.359 such an impact on on the survival rate from a 0:20:05.359 --> 0:20:08.520 heart attack that you want people walking around knowing how 0:20:08.560 --> 0:20:10.760 to use one and ready to use one in in 0:20:10.760 --> 0:20:15.760 an emergency situation. Argentina, this is tricky. Yeah, you could 0:20:15.920 --> 0:20:18.720 uh face jail time for either putting a person in 0:20:18.800 --> 0:20:22.720 jeopardy or abandoning a person to their fate. It's a 0:20:22.760 --> 0:20:26.600 real fine line, it is, for sure. Like I think 0:20:26.640 --> 0:20:29.439 if you yeah, it is a tricky one. I went 0:20:29.480 --> 0:20:31.359 back and rewad it too, and I'm like, nope, that's 0:20:31.640 --> 0:20:34.560 it's a tricky one. But I'd like the idea of 0:20:34.600 --> 0:20:38.160 abandoning to them to their fate if they need help, 0:20:38.520 --> 0:20:41.320 like somebody on a mountain or something like that, and 0:20:41.440 --> 0:20:44.679 just being like sorry, chump and walking along. I like 0:20:44.800 --> 0:20:47.400 that idea that you you have to do something for them, 0:20:48.400 --> 0:20:51.359 you're saying, right, You like the idea of just saying, well, 0:20:51.400 --> 0:20:54.280 it's kind of in God's hands. Now. That's Michigan, Michigan 0:20:54.320 --> 0:20:58.160 protects that. Right. Should we take a break, Yeah, it's 0:20:58.480 --> 0:21:00.160 all right. Let's take a break, and we're gonna talk 0:21:00.200 --> 0:21:04.640 about a very interesting case from California about fifteen years 0:21:04.640 --> 0:21:29.160 ago right after this. All right, dude, we're back and 0:21:29.400 --> 0:21:32.240 we're in California And during the ad break we got 0:21:32.240 --> 0:21:35.800 in the way back machine and it's two thousand four. Yeah, 0:21:36.320 --> 0:21:39.200 oh wait, I was still living there. Oh yeah, we're 0:21:39.240 --> 0:21:41.520 gonna run into you. I've arranged it. I just didn't 0:21:41.520 --> 0:21:43.240 know you. I'm like, who's that guy? I got in 0:21:43.320 --> 0:21:45.680 touch with past Chuck and I said, you're gonna want 0:21:45.720 --> 0:21:49.080 to meet somebody special. You're like, just wait for that beard. 0:21:49.119 --> 0:21:51.720 You're gonna have one day a right, Like what, I 0:21:51.760 --> 0:21:54.719 don't know, I can't grow beard. Yeah, and he'll be like, 0:21:54.920 --> 0:21:57.120 well at least I got all my teeth. That checks out. 0:22:00.520 --> 0:22:04.080 Oh the salad days. Um. All right, So this case 0:22:04.200 --> 0:22:08.719 is really interesting. Uh. Lisa Torti and Alexandra Van Horne 0:22:08.960 --> 0:22:14.840 were makeup artists that worked together. Um, friendly acquaintances as 0:22:14.920 --> 0:22:17.399 co workers, but I didn't get the picture that they 0:22:17.400 --> 0:22:20.280 were like best buddies or anything. Yeah, we guess the 0:22:20.359 --> 0:22:24.720 lawsuit implies that they wanted so they went out as 0:22:24.720 --> 0:22:26.879 a as a group of not just those two, but 0:22:26.920 --> 0:22:28.760 a bunch of people from work went out for some 0:22:28.840 --> 0:22:33.480 drinks in the l A area. One of them, Alexandra 0:22:33.520 --> 0:22:37.960 Van Horn, was headed back and crashed her car pretty 0:22:37.960 --> 0:22:42.760 bad crash. I think it's like fort into a telephone bowl. Yeah. Yeah, 0:22:43.280 --> 0:22:47.679 she's like all the air bags deployed. Uh. Lisa Torti 0:22:47.960 --> 0:22:51.399 was I saw this, got out of her car, saw smoke, 0:22:51.520 --> 0:22:54.640 saw liquid and was like, I think this, this car 0:22:54.720 --> 0:22:57.840 might explode. I need to do something quick, and pulled 0:22:58.359 --> 0:23:02.879 Alexandra Van Horn from the car, which seems like it 0:23:03.080 --> 0:23:05.879 had a hand in in paralyzing her. Yeah. I mean 0:23:05.920 --> 0:23:08.119