WEBVTT - Ed Rollins 0:00:04.240 --> 0:00:07.920 This is Alec Baldwin. And here's the thing. Ed Rollins 0:00:08.560 --> 0:00:11.720 could have been a contender. He was a boxing phenom 0:00:12.280 --> 0:00:15.400 until an injury forced him out. But it wasn't long 0:00:15.480 --> 0:00:19.040 until this fighter got his first gig in politics, working 0:00:19.120 --> 0:00:24.079 as a campaign coordinator for Robert Kennedy in California. Eventually 0:00:24.160 --> 0:00:27.840 he was running Ronald Reagan's re election effort in four, 0:00:28.440 --> 0:00:32.160 Ross Perot's campaign in nine two that lasted two months, 0:00:32.720 --> 0:00:36.320 and Mike Huckabee is in two thousand seven. Ed Rollins 0:00:36.360 --> 0:00:40.080 has worked on six presidential campaigns. He's one of the 0:00:40.120 --> 0:00:42.400 guys in the back room, coming up with a strategy, 0:00:42.720 --> 0:00:46.640 making deals and telling candidates wind to duck and wind 0:00:46.640 --> 0:00:50.400 a jab. Rollins is known for being honest and direct, 0:00:50.720 --> 0:00:55.560 which brings him admiration and trouble, sometimes big trouble. Just 0:00:55.800 --> 0:00:59.520 over a week after helping Christine Todd Whitman win election 0:00:59.600 --> 0:01:04.240 as govern of New Jersey, Rollins himself claimed the campaign 0:01:04.760 --> 0:01:09.240 had paid black ministers to suppress black turnout. Later, the 0:01:09.280 --> 0:01:12.800 straight Shooter explained his remarks by saying, quote, I was 0:01:12.840 --> 0:01:18.000 talking trash fifteen years ago. Ed Rollins declared enough, no 0:01:18.120 --> 0:01:21.760 more politics for him. He wrote his memoir thirty years 0:01:21.800 --> 0:01:24.920 in the business, he had a baby daughter. He wanted 0:01:25.120 --> 0:01:29.520 a different life, but something kept pulling ed Rollins back in. 0:01:30.319 --> 0:01:32.920 He's worked from Mike Huckabee and two months ago he 0:01:33.000 --> 0:01:38.200 left Michelle Backman's campaign. Today, Rollins says, the political landscape 0:01:38.240 --> 0:01:41.960 is entirely different. But when he started, once a primary 0:01:42.080 --> 0:01:44.720 was over, even if it was an ideological difference, which 0:01:44.760 --> 0:01:47.280 has always been kind of an establishment art in the 0:01:47.280 --> 0:01:50.480 conservative element of the party, the operatives got together, you know, 0:01:50.480 --> 0:01:53.480 winning was important. You didn't carry grudges. You know, you 0:01:53.600 --> 0:01:56.280 basically put it together, where Democrats obviously had the big 0:01:56.320 --> 0:01:59.520 ideological fights and and uh never came together. And now 0:01:59.520 --> 0:02:02.279 the republic can tell the ideological we have the ideological fights. 0:02:02.600 --> 0:02:05.840 The other thing that's changed dramatically is the role of 0:02:05.880 --> 0:02:08.920 the consultants versus the role of the party in yours 0:02:08.919 --> 0:02:11.240 so well, in your lifetime, in my lifetime, if you 0:02:11.280 --> 0:02:14.800 wanted to run for office, you basically hire someone like me. 0:02:14.880 --> 0:02:17.880 They can run a campaign, and I in turn hire 0:02:17.880 --> 0:02:19.920 a media person that can do your television, and I 0:02:20.000 --> 0:02:22.600 hire a fundraiser that can go raising. That what's happening more, 0:02:22.639 --> 0:02:24.800 that's that's absolutely what's happening is. I mean, people always 0:02:24.840 --> 0:02:26.880 say to me, well, why don't the party bosses step 0:02:26.880 --> 0:02:28.400 in here? All there's no party boss. When did that 0:02:28.480 --> 0:02:32.080 start to change? Probably in the seventies, uh and maybe 0:02:32.080 --> 0:02:34.400 even the late sixties. And the people who would run 0:02:34.520 --> 0:02:38.680 Nixon's campaign and had run Kennedy's campaign were all their pals. 0:02:38.720 --> 0:02:41.080 They were people who had been their aids on the hill. 0:02:41.680 --> 0:02:46.000 They weren't professionals. There were people who basically wrote Kennedy's speeches, 0:02:46.120 --> 0:02:49.360 ran Nixon's office. They didn't make a living doing this. 0:02:49.440 --> 0:02:52.080 They basically believed in the man. And then they went 0:02:52.120 --> 0:02:55.400 somewhere in the government worked. Then it started changing somewhat. 0:02:55.440 --> 0:02:58.800 And of course the big change was the money. After 0:02:58.880 --> 0:03:03.040 the seventy two camp pin where you know, Nixon smashed 0:03:03.120 --> 0:03:06.360 McGovern spent over two hundred million dollars, probably a hundred 0:03:06.400 --> 0:03:08.680 million of it illegal. He knuked him, He knuked him, 0:03:08.680 --> 0:03:11.160 he deliberately knuked him. After that, you know, you saw 0:03:11.160 --> 0:03:13.640 the development of a lot more of the operatives, and 0:03:14.440 --> 0:03:17.120 you know it's now thousands of operatives across the country. 0:03:17.120 --> 0:03:18.839 Every time you turn on the TV set, you see 0:03:18.880 --> 0:03:21.760 you know, Republican strategist, Democrats strategist, and I've been in 0:03:21.760 --> 0:03:24.560 the game for four decades, um one of eight members 0:03:24.560 --> 0:03:27.440 of the Political Consultants Hall of Fame. I've seen them all, 0:03:27.480 --> 0:03:28.960 but I don't even know what these people are. You know, 0:03:28.960 --> 0:03:31.560 what do you think that there are? Are they ideologically 0:03:31.760 --> 0:03:35.040 or in terms of party affiliation? Is that they're call 0:03:35.120 --> 0:03:37.440 to duty or are they really just mercenaries in there 0:03:37.440 --> 0:03:39.560 for high They're not mercenary. Very few people really make 0:03:39.600 --> 0:03:42.000 money in the business. The media guys make some money, 0:03:42.000 --> 0:03:44.400 and they're about the only ones that do. Most people 0:03:44.440 --> 0:03:46.880 go into it because they sort of believe in somebody 0:03:46.960 --> 0:03:49.360 or something. But you pretty much stay one party of 0:03:49.440 --> 0:03:51.400 the other. You stay at Democratic, you stay a Republican. 0:03:51.480 --> 0:03:54.200 You see very little cross over. The only time is 0:03:54.720 --> 0:03:59.040 crossed over. I crossed over. But I just think, I mean, 0:03:59.160 --> 0:04:01.040 very early on when you were did you know? I did? Uh? 0:04:02.800 --> 0:04:04.200 You know from what kind of house? I grew up 0:04:04.200 --> 0:04:06.839 in a Boston Irish Catholic household. My father had moved 0:04:06.880 --> 0:04:09.000 to California and the station there briefly in the war. 0:04:09.640 --> 0:04:14.920 We went to California and uh town again, town called Valeo, 0:04:14.960 --> 0:04:17.400 which is just north of San Francisco. UH and it's 0:04:17.440 --> 0:04:20.360 a blue collar shipyard town was a wonderful place to 0:04:20.400 --> 0:04:22.600 grow up because everybody's old man worked in the shipyard. 0:04:22.839 --> 0:04:25.160 Anybody who had any money had been bootleggers, would run 0:04:25.160 --> 0:04:27.120 the whorehouses during the war. You know, it was just 0:04:27.279 --> 0:04:31.000 everybody else. You know, it was the west. Where was 0:04:31.040 --> 0:04:33.960 a house? Where's your old man work? You know, works 0:04:33.960 --> 0:04:35.520 in the shipyard, you know, And they built all this 0:04:35.640 --> 0:04:38.320 public housing so you live next to African Americans and 0:04:38.520 --> 0:04:40.720 played ball with him in Mexicans. And it was a 0:04:40.720 --> 0:04:44.400 classless society. So for me, it was a wonderful uh. 0:04:44.440 --> 0:04:48.200 You know, my friends are every color, and every city 0:04:48.240 --> 0:04:50.599 had never thought any of it. But it was all Democrats. 0:04:50.640 --> 0:04:52.320 There was no I mean, I think there weren't ten 0:04:52.360 --> 0:04:55.360 Republicans of the entire town. So needless to say, it 0:04:55.440 --> 0:04:59.640 was an experience. When I became a prominent Republican nineteen 0:04:59.680 --> 0:05:03.040 seventy two, I shifted kind of a you know, it's 0:05:03.160 --> 0:05:05.960 the war was a variety of things, uh, and I 0:05:06.000 --> 0:05:08.640 just felt that the Democratic Party was too left for 0:05:08.680 --> 0:05:12.120 me at that point in time. I had real guilt 0:05:12.160 --> 0:05:14.800 feelings about the war. Travis Air Force Base, with ever 0:05:14.880 --> 0:05:17.680 bringing the Vietnam kids back the bodies, you know, it's 0:05:17.680 --> 0:05:21.000 ten miles from my house. I broke my back playing football, 0:05:21.080 --> 0:05:22.839 and so I tried to go the service, couldn't go, 0:05:22.960 --> 0:05:25.680 and so I had these real heavy pangs of guilt 0:05:25.720 --> 0:05:28.479 where I saw friends go and some die and some 0:05:28.600 --> 0:05:31.000 be mangled. At that point in my life, I thought 0:05:31.600 --> 0:05:33.760 those guys and Warsing are smart guys. You know, they 0:05:33.760 --> 0:05:37.640 know what they're doing. Having spent twenty five years in 0:05:37.640 --> 0:05:40.400 Washington and highest levels, I now know they don't, you know, 0:05:40.680 --> 0:05:42.680 But at that point in time, I thought they did. 0:05:42.839 --> 0:05:44.680 The Nixon was the first campaign I worked on at 0:05:44.760 --> 0:05:49.919 seventy two. I've done a Bobby Kennedy man in probably 0:05:49.960 --> 0:05:51.680 if he would have lived, I probably would have stayed 0:05:51.680 --> 0:05:55.359 a Democrat. And then when I became a Republican, I 0:05:55.440 --> 0:05:57.960 tried to change the Republican Party and make it a 0:05:57.960 --> 0:06:00.919 working people's party. I was sort of architect of the 0:06:00.960 --> 0:06:03.240 Reagan Democrat, which was sort of what I grew up 0:06:03.240 --> 0:06:05.200 and sort of what you grew up. So that switched 0:06:05.200 --> 0:06:09.200 for you. Kennedy's assassinated in sixty eight and Nixon becomes president. 0:06:09.600 --> 0:06:11.719 You weren't signed on to Nixon, so to speak. I 0:06:11.760 --> 0:06:15.480 was not signed on sixty eight at all. Now, uh, 0:06:15.960 --> 0:06:19.360 How does your association with Bachmann begin? What's the genesis 0:06:19.360 --> 0:06:20.680 of that? How does that work? Did they call you? 0:06:20.720 --> 0:06:24.240 They they call you. You You know, I don't run campaigns 0:06:24.279 --> 0:06:26.480 for a living. I sort of do friends from time 0:06:26.480 --> 0:06:28.400 to time, or I try and be a change agent 0:06:28.440 --> 0:06:31.440 for the party. I'll take on an African American candidate 0:06:31.440 --> 0:06:33.960 who doesn't have any resources to broaden the base, or 0:06:34.000 --> 0:06:36.800 woman candidate. I was going to do my Cuckabees campaign. 0:06:36.839 --> 0:06:39.240 I had run his campaign four years ago, and I 0:06:39.240 --> 0:06:40.640 thought I had a real shot at it, and so 0:06:40.680 --> 0:06:43.240 I spent six eight months with him trying to get 0:06:43.240 --> 0:06:45.840 a real campaign together for him on like the one 0:06:45.880 --> 0:06:48.320 we had last time. So when he made a determination 0:06:48.360 --> 0:06:49.960 not to run, you know, I'd sort of put a 0:06:49.960 --> 0:06:53.240 team together, put a strategy together a little bit, and 0:06:53.240 --> 0:06:54.960 and I was trying to think, Okay, is there anybody 0:06:54.960 --> 0:06:57.960 else they could fit that model? And Bachman came to 0:06:58.000 --> 0:07:00.040 me several times, came to me. I didn't have a 0:07:00.080 --> 0:07:03.279 good first initial reaction to her. There's a little high 0:07:03.279 --> 0:07:06.480 strong house members, very difficult to you know, it's I mean, 0:07:06.480 --> 0:07:09.200 it's not I've done Katherine Harris's campaign when she ran 0:07:09.240 --> 0:07:10.880 for the Senate, and there was. There was too much 0:07:10.960 --> 0:07:14.200 similarity there. So I turned her down and I said 0:07:14.240 --> 0:07:15.800 to her, you know, the only way I'll do a 0:07:15.840 --> 0:07:18.400 campaign at this point in my life is and you'll 0:07:18.440 --> 0:07:22.080 understand this totally. Ronald Reagan was the best candidate ever. 0:07:22.200 --> 0:07:24.200 And Ronald Reagan once said to me, you have to 0:07:24.240 --> 0:07:27.960 understand you're my director. He knew what his part was. 0:07:28.000 --> 0:07:30.560 He knew, you know, he understood that someone had hit 0:07:30.680 --> 0:07:32.880 the mark. Someone has to see the whole picture as 0:07:32.880 --> 0:07:35.400 opposed to you know, you do it, You're you're concentrating 0:07:35.440 --> 0:07:37.560 on your part, but someone has to see them all 0:07:37.600 --> 0:07:40.200 the other elements of it. And so ever since then, 0:07:40.560 --> 0:07:42.840 I've always said that I'm the director. I've done this 0:07:43.040 --> 0:07:45.800 a lot of times. So I said, there the only 0:07:45.800 --> 0:07:47.760 way I'll do this is if I can pick my team. 0:07:48.040 --> 0:07:50.640 It's your campaign. Obviously, won't do anything you're not happy with, 0:07:51.000 --> 0:07:52.480 but at the end of the day, I gotta run it. 0:07:52.560 --> 0:07:53.920 If you want to run it, then find you go 0:07:54.040 --> 0:07:56.120 run it, you know, and I'll go back home. So, 0:07:56.240 --> 0:07:58.000 you know, she came back to me and she said, 0:07:58.040 --> 0:07:59.680 it's yours, you run it. You do whatever you want 0:07:59.680 --> 0:08:01.240 to do with that was that was pretty good for 0:08:01.240 --> 0:08:03.760 about six or eight weeks and then uh, you know, 0:08:03.800 --> 0:08:08.480 obviously we won the straw poll and no time in 0:08:08.560 --> 0:08:11.680 Iowa and I when she came back again, what changed? 0:08:12.400 --> 0:08:15.560 What changed I think was partly she had become a 0:08:15.640 --> 0:08:19.080 national figure and so everyone wanted her to go to 0:08:19.160 --> 0:08:22.480 Florida and South Carolina. And at the end of the day, 0:08:22.800 --> 0:08:25.280 what I kept trying to tell her, your ticket out 0:08:25.320 --> 0:08:28.239 is Iowa. Romney's the front runner at that point in time, 0:08:28.600 --> 0:08:30.520 and they'll be a chaser, and the chaser will come 0:08:30.520 --> 0:08:34.280 out of Iowa or normally New Hampshire, but Romney is 0:08:34.280 --> 0:08:36.000 gonna win to Hampshire. So the only place for you 0:08:36.040 --> 0:08:38.280 to get your ticket out, sort of like the the 0:08:38.320 --> 0:08:41.080 Final sixty four basketball about how great your team is. 0:08:41.400 --> 0:08:43.840 You gotta win every week, and I was the first week. 0:08:43.920 --> 0:08:46.880 And the Giuliani example four years ago was the perfect example. 0:08:47.440 --> 0:08:50.000 Leading in every pole, decides I'm gonna skip everything and 0:08:50.040 --> 0:08:53.079 go to Florida and got nothing. Fred Thompson the same way, 0:08:53.200 --> 0:08:55.280 got nothing. What's happened? Do you think? To Bockman During 0:08:55.320 --> 0:08:57.760 the race, there were all these questions about, you know, 0:08:57.800 --> 0:09:00.480 her provenance and these schools she went doing, her teachers 0:09:00.520 --> 0:09:02.800 and their religious use and so forth. None of that 0:09:02.840 --> 0:09:07.120 bothered you. None of that As an ideological Christian conservative. 0:09:07.120 --> 0:09:08.960 I'm a Catholic. I'm like you, you know, and I 0:09:08.960 --> 0:09:10.760 get to struggle with my own faith every day, and 0:09:10.760 --> 0:09:16.280 I'm very private. It's very room exactly, and that's the 0:09:16.280 --> 0:09:17.760 way it is. You know. I had a little bit 0:09:17.800 --> 0:09:20.120 of experience with it last time with Huckabee. You know, 0:09:20.200 --> 0:09:22.040 he was a Baptist minister, and he would go in 0:09:22.120 --> 0:09:25.280 the churches on Sunday and just flick a switch. The 0:09:25.320 --> 0:09:28.360 politics of the week shut down on Sundays. He could 0:09:28.400 --> 0:09:31.559 go in there and give this extraordinary sermon and then 0:09:31.559 --> 0:09:34.000 the switch went back on. He never took the sermon 0:09:34.000 --> 0:09:37.240 out of the church into the politics. And in her 0:09:37.320 --> 0:09:39.520 particular case, what I said to her early on, as 0:09:39.559 --> 0:09:42.560 I said, okay, everybody in this race is against Obama. Okay, 0:09:42.800 --> 0:09:45.600 so saying you're against Obama against Obamacare all arrest. It's 0:09:45.600 --> 0:09:47.679 all fine, well and good, except it doesn't move you forward. 0:09:48.000 --> 0:09:50.199 What you have to say is I want to abolish Obamacare, 0:09:50.200 --> 0:09:51.440 and here's what I want to put in his place. 0:09:51.720 --> 0:09:54.400 And I could never get to that hurdle. She liked 0:09:54.400 --> 0:09:57.440 the applause lines the Tea Party type stuff, and and 0:09:57.480 --> 0:09:59.920 I think part of it was she just wasn't wee 0:10:00.080 --> 0:10:02.800 the campaign together very quickly. These things take a year 0:10:02.840 --> 0:10:05.920 of preparation, and we didn't have that. What happened with Huckaby? 0:10:06.040 --> 0:10:09.240 Do you think I think he basically he had come 0:10:09.320 --> 0:10:11.280 right out of the governorship. It was sort of like 0:10:11.320 --> 0:10:13.959 the next thing to do. Not that anybody gets heart 0:10:14.640 --> 0:10:16.560 at this time. His heart wasn't in it, you know, 0:10:16.600 --> 0:10:18.560 my senses. He'd have been a great candidate. I was 0:10:18.600 --> 0:10:20.280 convinced it was going to be a duel between Huckaby 0:10:20.280 --> 0:10:21.960 and Round. It would have been, I'm telling you would 0:10:21.960 --> 0:10:24.360 about it would have been Mono and Mono, and I 0:10:24.440 --> 0:10:28.240 had it all strategized, and that's what that us. That's 0:10:28.240 --> 0:10:31.680 why I had it. And I knew that my game, 0:10:31.720 --> 0:10:34.439 and I had spent two years thinking about it, you know. 0:10:34.559 --> 0:10:36.959 But as I said to him, I can't want it 0:10:37.040 --> 0:10:39.839 more than you want it. Good point. And do you 0:10:39.920 --> 0:10:42.959 find sometimes you do? I love the game. But it's 0:10:42.960 --> 0:10:46.400 amazing how you said that, to say you're against Obamacare 0:10:46.480 --> 0:10:49.480 and not step up and uh and offer your alternative. 0:10:49.800 --> 0:10:52.839 It's amazing how many politicians on both sides of the 0:10:52.920 --> 0:10:56.360 aisle underestimate it just doesn't do enough for you to say, 0:10:56.920 --> 0:10:59.040 you know, kill Obama, so to speak to his administration. 0:10:59.320 --> 0:11:01.120 You made a come and in an interview you were 0:11:01.160 --> 0:11:03.439 giving which as you said, you know, was Kane a 0:11:03.559 --> 0:11:06.560 serious guy or was he just an entertainer? And then 0:11:06.640 --> 0:11:09.319 you said, does he have the temperament to be president? 0:11:09.880 --> 0:11:11.800 Is that in your mind one of the key elements 0:11:11.840 --> 0:11:13.800 of the temperament of being president is being able to 0:11:13.920 --> 0:11:17.000 create policy and have ideas well, it's it's I worked 0:11:17.040 --> 0:11:19.920 for four presidents, uh, and I've spent you know, eight 0:11:20.000 --> 0:11:21.679 ten years of my life in a White House in 0:11:21.760 --> 0:11:23.640 twenty five years of my life around and go through 0:11:23.679 --> 0:11:25.520 all four and describe how they were in terms of 0:11:25.600 --> 0:11:29.480 their own authorship of public policy. Nixon was brilliant, very 0:11:29.520 --> 0:11:31.839 aggressive mentally and and gets a great credit on the 0:11:31.840 --> 0:11:33.800 foreign policy arena, but he did great things on the 0:11:33.840 --> 0:11:36.199 domestic He created an e p A. You know, Ford 0:11:36.360 --> 0:11:38.760 was been a decent house leader. You know, it was 0:11:38.800 --> 0:11:41.040 sort of an accident. Not the temperament for the president's 0:11:41.280 --> 0:11:42.760 not the big picture he was not. He was not 0:11:42.840 --> 0:11:45.959 a big big picture guy. You know. Carter obviously was 0:11:46.360 --> 0:11:48.480 was not someone I worked for, but I got to 0:11:48.520 --> 0:11:51.559 watch him up close, and I he problem. You know, 0:11:51.640 --> 0:11:53.719 he was a micromanager. He was an engineer, and he 0:11:53.800 --> 0:11:56.120 wanted he wanted to manage everything. And the reality of 0:11:56.240 --> 0:11:59.560 the president isn't a management job. The president is an 0:11:59.600 --> 0:12:03.000 inspire rational job, and he sets a direction. He has 0:12:03.160 --> 0:12:06.360 four or five big decisions to make every day. If 0:12:06.400 --> 0:12:09.520 you have an inability to make decisions, then they basically 0:12:09.640 --> 0:12:11.439 stack up on you. And he thought Carter was weak 0:12:11.480 --> 0:12:13.640 on that. I thought Carter was a micromanager. I thought 0:12:13.679 --> 0:12:16.880 Bill Clinton overthought it. Bill Clinton had an ongoing seminar, 0:12:17.040 --> 0:12:18.920 but he was viewed as a very decisive guy. You 0:12:18.960 --> 0:12:22.400 think that that's an unfair Uh, let me just say this. 0:12:22.679 --> 0:12:25.720 I think Bill Clinton became a much better president as 0:12:25.800 --> 0:12:27.840 time went on, and I think as we reflect back 0:12:28.000 --> 0:12:31.199 on his presidency, there's not many people in America who 0:12:31.200 --> 0:12:33.679 wouldn't rather have him than who we have today. And 0:12:33.800 --> 0:12:36.120 that doesn't mean he wouldn't be a very viable candidate again. 0:12:36.920 --> 0:12:38.400 You know, he was a charming man. He had a 0:12:38.400 --> 0:12:41.439 great ability to make people feel good about themselves. You 0:12:41.480 --> 0:12:44.040 know Reagan, who I worked for and was closest to. Uh, 0:12:44.400 --> 0:12:47.760 you know, Reagan had a core of beliefs that he 0:12:47.840 --> 0:12:51.240 had like you, In addition to having a career, he 0:12:51.440 --> 0:12:55.040 basically was interested in politics for thirty years. He thought 0:12:55.120 --> 0:12:59.560 on paper people underestimated his intelligence. He read, he wrote, 0:13:00.480 --> 0:13:04.119 He knew who he was, and he had three major principles, 0:13:04.280 --> 0:13:06.120 four major principles of things that he wanted to do. 0:13:06.840 --> 0:13:10.200 One is he was been fighting communists since his days 0:13:10.200 --> 0:13:12.760 in all I would so he made a gigantic investment 0:13:12.880 --> 0:13:15.360 to rebuild the defenses the country so that the Soviets 0:13:15.400 --> 0:13:19.679 would treat us with respect, just to throw for for 0:13:19.840 --> 0:13:22.760 arguments like the liberal side to this, I've seen this 0:13:22.840 --> 0:13:26.680 going cycles where you have a lull crisis of the spirit, 0:13:26.760 --> 0:13:28.559 so to speak, after the Vietnam War, and we do 0:13:28.720 --> 0:13:32.120 collapse defense spending, and that's a mistake. But then Reagan 0:13:32.200 --> 0:13:34.559 comes and starts to ramp up defense spending again. For 0:13:34.720 --> 0:13:37.040 my money, we probably would have less of a swing 0:13:37.120 --> 0:13:39.360 of the penduluman if the wars themselves weren't such a 0:13:39.400 --> 0:13:42.120 waste of time. My question for you is did you 0:13:42.240 --> 0:13:45.160 think that the Vietnam War amounted to anything? Certainly not today. 0:13:45.240 --> 0:13:47.280 I mean, what what had amount to is that fifty 0:13:47.840 --> 0:13:50.719 plus men were killed and we divided this country. What 0:13:50.760 --> 0:13:52.720 impact did it have on our lives at all? It had. 0:13:52.840 --> 0:13:55.719 It had a terrible impact because it divided America, and 0:13:55.840 --> 0:13:57.679 I think to a certain extent as you'd reflect back, 0:13:57.760 --> 0:14:01.800 and I was very pro Vietnam War because my father 0:14:01.920 --> 0:14:04.240 had been in the service. Everybody around me was in 0:14:04.320 --> 0:14:06.960 the service. So it was a real basic my country 0:14:07.080 --> 0:14:09.920 right around, my country, my country right or wrong. Absolutely, 0:14:10.400 --> 0:14:12.240 And at the end of the day, you know, my 0:14:12.480 --> 0:14:15.839 sense is I'm very close to military people. I have 0:14:16.040 --> 0:14:19.600 great affection for them. Both my brother and my father 0:14:19.720 --> 0:14:23.720 were servicemen. But I saw that the tragic stuff that 0:14:23.840 --> 0:14:26.200 happened at the end of the day, I like the 0:14:26.280 --> 0:14:30.800 pile doctrine. Cap Weinberger basically asked the flag officers who 0:14:30.840 --> 0:14:33.040 had been the captains and the majors in Vietnam to 0:14:33.120 --> 0:14:36.200 give us rules. Tell us what are the rules of engagement? 0:14:36.640 --> 0:14:39.800 Those four things I remember exactly. Don't ever go to 0:14:39.880 --> 0:14:42.560 war where the US doesn't have a real interest, Don't 0:14:42.600 --> 0:14:45.080 ever go to war unless we have American support behind it. 0:14:45.680 --> 0:14:48.400 Always go with overwhelming force so that our troops did 0:14:48.400 --> 0:14:50.440 not put a disadvantage. And always have an exit strategy. 0:14:50.840 --> 0:14:52.880 Have we had that in these last two wars? No, 0:14:53.040 --> 0:14:55.080 we did not. We had it in the first Iraq 0:14:55.560 --> 0:14:59.840 the Kuwait War. We went with overwhelming force. We yeah 0:15:00.080 --> 0:15:02.960 going in Afghanistan. Giving that government the opportunity to give 0:15:03.040 --> 0:15:05.560 up the bin Laden, getting the Taliban out of there 0:15:05.640 --> 0:15:08.800 was a worthwhile effort. In hindsight, who cared about Iraq? 0:15:08.880 --> 0:15:11.160 It didn't matter. You know. We look at these two 0:15:11.240 --> 0:15:12.960 wars and I think to myself, if I was the president, 0:15:13.040 --> 0:15:16.280 forget about Iraq, I would have assassinated Saddam Hussein later 0:15:16.360 --> 0:15:18.680 on somehow, or taken him prisoner and put him on trial. 0:15:19.080 --> 0:15:21.160 But I would have built the mother of all military 0:15:21.200 --> 0:15:24.520 basis right because Pakistan is the enemy. Pakistan is the 0:15:24.840 --> 0:15:26.880 most dangerous country. I would build the mother of all 0:15:26.960 --> 0:15:30.600 military basis right on the Pakistani board of But while 0:15:30.640 --> 0:15:32.280 I was doing that, I would fly around the world 0:15:32.320 --> 0:15:34.400 and I would get the leaders of the most reliable 0:15:34.440 --> 0:15:36.600 allies who had some funds, and I'd say to them, 0:15:36.840 --> 0:15:39.360 you must give us something. We're gonna have a coalition 0:15:39.400 --> 0:15:41.480 of twelve or fourteen countries, and if you don't, I'm 0:15:41.520 --> 0:15:44.840 gonna make your life miserable. I wanted to have half 0:15:44.880 --> 0:15:47.880 a million men on the ground in Afghanistan. You know, 0:15:48.040 --> 0:15:50.280 leaflet the whole place, say get out, We're coming and 0:15:50.440 --> 0:15:52.280 drawing them, and if they make one move, we don't 0:15:52.320 --> 0:15:54.960 like we go when we just crushed Pakistan with five people. 0:15:55.080 --> 0:15:57.520 What do you think of that idea? Uh, it's for 0:15:57.760 --> 0:16:01.760 Hollywood liberals, it's pretty darn good. But I know, I 0:16:01.840 --> 0:16:05.720 know that's where terrorism that is there. I think I 0:16:05.760 --> 0:16:08.240 think the battle against terrorism is an ongoing war, and 0:16:08.320 --> 0:16:10.400 I think to a certain extent, we need to continue it. Uh. 0:16:11.000 --> 0:16:14.280 My fear of this whole thing. And you know, as 0:16:14.320 --> 0:16:17.480 you look in the future as a strategist, you alway, 0:16:17.480 --> 0:16:20.160 I always try and look to the future, the next region. 0:16:20.240 --> 0:16:21.960 We all focus right now in them at least, But 0:16:22.040 --> 0:16:24.280 the Pacific is really the big region. I mean, it's 0:16:24.360 --> 0:16:28.400 the China, but China, you know, Japan, Vietnam, all these 0:16:28.480 --> 0:16:32.000 all these emerging countries. And I have a Chinese daughter. 0:16:32.240 --> 0:16:34.880 I adopted a child from China, and China twenty times. 0:16:34.920 --> 0:16:38.560 I love China. China is not a military threat to 0:16:38.680 --> 0:16:41.440 us at this point in time. China is building submarines 0:16:41.480 --> 0:16:44.120 to protect their assets. They've never been an invading country. 0:16:44.160 --> 0:16:46.760 They're a country that basically, you know, in the absurdity 0:16:46.800 --> 0:16:49.960 of US was talking about the emerging China. China has 0:16:50.000 --> 0:16:53.120 been there for five thousand years, you know, right and 0:16:53.280 --> 0:16:55.120 and or any place else say that they have watched 0:16:55.200 --> 0:16:56.840 us emerged. They have not watched, you know, and they 0:16:56.920 --> 0:16:59.960 watched many countries come and fall. My sense is every 0:17:00.040 --> 0:17:02.400 time China build an aircraft carrier, we don't have to 0:17:02.440 --> 0:17:05.159 go nuts and worry about going to war. You know. 0:17:05.280 --> 0:17:08.639 For me, it's my country, right or wrong, but never unfunded. 0:17:09.320 --> 0:17:11.760 And that is that the problem in our society today 0:17:11.880 --> 0:17:13.720 is that we need to raise taxes. Do you believe 0:17:13.760 --> 0:17:15.720 we need to raise taxes. I believe we need to 0:17:15.840 --> 0:17:19.199 raise revenue. So beyond taxes. However we raise revene, well 0:17:19.200 --> 0:17:21.120 you get people back to work. No one has come 0:17:21.240 --> 0:17:24.320 forth with a plan to me to show me how 0:17:24.840 --> 0:17:27.119 raising taxes basically does any of the rest of it, 0:17:27.720 --> 0:17:29.560 you know. I mean I find it appalling today when 0:17:29.560 --> 0:17:31.879 you read in the in the New York Post. You know, 0:17:31.960 --> 0:17:34.480 all the major corporations that you know are not paying taxes. 0:17:34.520 --> 0:17:35.920 I mean, they got all the loopholes in the world. 0:17:36.000 --> 0:17:38.320 So to me, I'd eliminate all the loopholes, I would, 0:17:38.480 --> 0:17:40.200 you know, I don't think everybody's going to pay something. 0:17:40.440 --> 0:17:42.840 Everybody has to pay something, and and and I think 0:17:42.880 --> 0:17:45.640 every well, I think every American would want to pay something, 0:17:45.720 --> 0:17:47.959 even if it's fifty or a hundred buck minimum at 0:17:48.000 --> 0:17:49.639 the end of at the end of your bill, I mean, 0:17:49.680 --> 0:17:52.000 you can't have the taxes the corporations are not paying 0:17:52.119 --> 0:17:56.399 is merely going towards executive pay, which has become Ye, 0:17:56.560 --> 0:17:58.919 it's it's you know, it's it's it's obscene. And at 0:17:58.920 --> 0:18:01.000 the end of the day, I mean the idea that 0:18:01.320 --> 0:18:04.080 I teach it houstro These young kids that are that 0:18:04.160 --> 0:18:06.320 are great kids. You know, your your neck of the 0:18:06.320 --> 0:18:08.959 woods out there, you know, blue collar kids going out 0:18:08.960 --> 0:18:12.119 of school can't find jobs. That eliminates hope. And somehow 0:18:12.160 --> 0:18:14.400 we have to we have to fix that. You asked 0:18:14.400 --> 0:18:18.199 me about Reagan earlier. Reagan leaved deeply in this country, 0:18:18.320 --> 0:18:20.680 and he inspired this country, and he made Americans feel 0:18:20.680 --> 0:18:23.239 good about themselves again. He was proud of America, got 0:18:23.320 --> 0:18:25.760 up every day, was proud of America. To me, Reagan, 0:18:26.040 --> 0:18:27.520 because I have a very different view of Reagan than 0:18:27.560 --> 0:18:30.320 you do. He was a failed actor who in my business, 0:18:30.359 --> 0:18:32.720 what happened. You become ripe and you fall from that 0:18:32.920 --> 0:18:35.000 tree and you go and he went into this other 0:18:35.040 --> 0:18:36.760 field because it was a role for him to play. 0:18:37.040 --> 0:18:39.720 But more importantly, when you say Reagan made people feel 0:18:39.760 --> 0:18:42.879 good about themselves, I except where some people see that. 0:18:43.160 --> 0:18:46.000 But what Reagan said to our society was, if it's 0:18:46.000 --> 0:18:48.880 your choice between you having a swimming pool and you've 0:18:48.880 --> 0:18:52.720 worked really really hard and some poor person getting some 0:18:53.280 --> 0:18:55.800 public entitlement or going to school, what have you? Damn 0:18:55.840 --> 0:18:58.040 it all, you should have your swimming pool. The government's 0:18:58.080 --> 0:19:01.360 making that choice for you. And Reagan seduced a whole 0:19:01.440 --> 0:19:04.000 generation of Americans into believing you should have what you 0:19:04.119 --> 0:19:05.560 want more than they should have what they need, and 0:19:05.560 --> 0:19:08.000