1 00:00:04,240 --> 00:00:07,920 Speaker 1: This is Alec Baldwin. And here's the thing. Ed Rollins 2 00:00:08,560 --> 00:00:11,720 Speaker 1: could have been a contender. He was a boxing phenom 3 00:00:12,280 --> 00:00:15,400 Speaker 1: until an injury forced him out. But it wasn't long 4 00:00:15,480 --> 00:00:19,040 Speaker 1: until this fighter got his first gig in politics, working 5 00:00:19,120 --> 00:00:24,079 Speaker 1: as a campaign coordinator for Robert Kennedy in California. Eventually 6 00:00:24,160 --> 00:00:27,840 Speaker 1: he was running Ronald Reagan's re election effort in four, 7 00:00:28,440 --> 00:00:32,160 Speaker 1: Ross Perot's campaign in nine two that lasted two months, 8 00:00:32,720 --> 00:00:36,320 Speaker 1: and Mike Huckabee is in two thousand seven. Ed Rollins 9 00:00:36,360 --> 00:00:40,080 Speaker 1: has worked on six presidential campaigns. He's one of the 10 00:00:40,120 --> 00:00:42,400 Speaker 1: guys in the back room, coming up with a strategy, 11 00:00:42,720 --> 00:00:46,640 Speaker 1: making deals and telling candidates wind to duck and wind 12 00:00:46,640 --> 00:00:50,400 Speaker 1: a jab. Rollins is known for being honest and direct, 13 00:00:50,720 --> 00:00:55,560 Speaker 1: which brings him admiration and trouble, sometimes big trouble. Just 14 00:00:55,800 --> 00:00:59,520 Speaker 1: over a week after helping Christine Todd Whitman win election 15 00:00:59,600 --> 00:01:04,240 Speaker 1: as govern of New Jersey, Rollins himself claimed the campaign 16 00:01:04,760 --> 00:01:09,240 Speaker 1: had paid black ministers to suppress black turnout. Later, the 17 00:01:09,280 --> 00:01:12,800 Speaker 1: straight Shooter explained his remarks by saying, quote, I was 18 00:01:12,840 --> 00:01:18,000 Speaker 1: talking trash fifteen years ago. Ed Rollins declared enough, no 19 00:01:18,120 --> 00:01:21,760 Speaker 1: more politics for him. He wrote his memoir thirty years 20 00:01:21,800 --> 00:01:24,920 Speaker 1: in the business, he had a baby daughter. He wanted 21 00:01:25,120 --> 00:01:29,520 Speaker 1: a different life, but something kept pulling ed Rollins back in. 22 00:01:30,319 --> 00:01:32,920 Speaker 1: He's worked from Mike Huckabee and two months ago he 23 00:01:33,000 --> 00:01:38,200 Speaker 1: left Michelle Backman's campaign. Today, Rollins says, the political landscape 24 00:01:38,240 --> 00:01:41,960 Speaker 1: is entirely different. But when he started, once a primary 25 00:01:42,080 --> 00:01:44,720 Speaker 1: was over, even if it was an ideological difference, which 26 00:01:44,760 --> 00:01:47,280 Speaker 1: has always been kind of an establishment art in the 27 00:01:47,280 --> 00:01:50,480 Speaker 1: conservative element of the party, the operatives got together, you know, 28 00:01:50,480 --> 00:01:53,480 Speaker 1: winning was important. You didn't carry grudges. You know, you 29 00:01:53,600 --> 00:01:56,280 Speaker 1: basically put it together, where Democrats obviously had the big 30 00:01:56,320 --> 00:01:59,520 Speaker 1: ideological fights and and uh never came together. And now 31 00:01:59,520 --> 00:02:02,279 Speaker 1: the republic can tell the ideological we have the ideological fights. 32 00:02:02,600 --> 00:02:05,840 Speaker 1: The other thing that's changed dramatically is the role of 33 00:02:05,880 --> 00:02:08,920 Speaker 1: the consultants versus the role of the party in yours 34 00:02:08,919 --> 00:02:11,240 Speaker 1: so well, in your lifetime, in my lifetime, if you 35 00:02:11,280 --> 00:02:14,800 Speaker 1: wanted to run for office, you basically hire someone like me. 36 00:02:14,880 --> 00:02:17,880 Speaker 1: They can run a campaign, and I in turn hire 37 00:02:17,880 --> 00:02:19,920 Speaker 1: a media person that can do your television, and I 38 00:02:20,000 --> 00:02:22,600 Speaker 1: hire a fundraiser that can go raising. That what's happening more, 39 00:02:22,639 --> 00:02:24,800 Speaker 1: that's that's absolutely what's happening is. I mean, people always 40 00:02:24,840 --> 00:02:26,880 Speaker 1: say to me, well, why don't the party bosses step 41 00:02:26,880 --> 00:02:28,400 Speaker 1: in here? All there's no party boss. When did that 42 00:02:28,480 --> 00:02:32,080 Speaker 1: start to change? Probably in the seventies, uh and maybe 43 00:02:32,080 --> 00:02:34,400 Speaker 1: even the late sixties. And the people who would run 44 00:02:34,520 --> 00:02:38,680 Speaker 1: Nixon's campaign and had run Kennedy's campaign were all their pals. 45 00:02:38,720 --> 00:02:41,080 Speaker 1: They were people who had been their aids on the hill. 46 00:02:41,680 --> 00:02:46,000 Speaker 1: They weren't professionals. There were people who basically wrote Kennedy's speeches, 47 00:02:46,120 --> 00:02:49,360 Speaker 1: ran Nixon's office. They didn't make a living doing this. 48 00:02:49,440 --> 00:02:52,080 Speaker 1: They basically believed in the man. And then they went 49 00:02:52,120 --> 00:02:55,400 Speaker 1: somewhere in the government worked. Then it started changing somewhat. 50 00:02:55,440 --> 00:02:58,800 Speaker 1: And of course the big change was the money. After 51 00:02:58,880 --> 00:03:03,040 Speaker 1: the seventy two camp pin where you know, Nixon smashed 52 00:03:03,120 --> 00:03:06,360 Speaker 1: McGovern spent over two hundred million dollars, probably a hundred 53 00:03:06,400 --> 00:03:08,680 Speaker 1: million of it illegal. He knuked him, He knuked him, 54 00:03:08,680 --> 00:03:11,160 Speaker 1: he deliberately knuked him. After that, you know, you saw 55 00:03:11,160 --> 00:03:13,640 Speaker 1: the development of a lot more of the operatives, and 56 00:03:14,440 --> 00:03:17,120 Speaker 1: you know it's now thousands of operatives across the country. 57 00:03:17,120 --> 00:03:18,839 Speaker 1: Every time you turn on the TV set, you see 58 00:03:18,880 --> 00:03:21,760 Speaker 1: you know, Republican strategist, Democrats strategist, and I've been in 59 00:03:21,760 --> 00:03:24,560 Speaker 1: the game for four decades, um one of eight members 60 00:03:24,560 --> 00:03:27,440 Speaker 1: of the Political Consultants Hall of Fame. I've seen them all, 61 00:03:27,480 --> 00:03:28,960 Speaker 1: but I don't even know what these people are. You know, 62 00:03:28,960 --> 00:03:31,560 Speaker 1: what do you think that there are? Are they ideologically 63 00:03:31,760 --> 00:03:35,040 Speaker 1: or in terms of party affiliation? Is that they're call 64 00:03:35,120 --> 00:03:37,440 Speaker 1: to duty or are they really just mercenaries in there 65 00:03:37,440 --> 00:03:39,560 Speaker 1: for high They're not mercenary. Very few people really make 66 00:03:39,600 --> 00:03:42,000 Speaker 1: money in the business. The media guys make some money, 67 00:03:42,000 --> 00:03:44,400 Speaker 1: and they're about the only ones that do. Most people 68 00:03:44,440 --> 00:03:46,880 Speaker 1: go into it because they sort of believe in somebody 69 00:03:46,960 --> 00:03:49,360 Speaker 1: or something. But you pretty much stay one party of 70 00:03:49,440 --> 00:03:51,400 Speaker 1: the other. You stay at Democratic, you stay a Republican. 71 00:03:51,480 --> 00:03:54,200 Speaker 1: You see very little cross over. The only time is 72 00:03:54,720 --> 00:03:59,040 Speaker 1: crossed over. I crossed over. But I just think, I mean, 73 00:03:59,160 --> 00:04:01,040 Speaker 1: very early on when you were did you know? I did? Uh? 74 00:04:02,800 --> 00:04:04,200 Speaker 1: You know from what kind of house? I grew up 75 00:04:04,200 --> 00:04:06,839 Speaker 1: in a Boston Irish Catholic household. My father had moved 76 00:04:06,880 --> 00:04:09,000 Speaker 1: to California and the station there briefly in the war. 77 00:04:09,640 --> 00:04:14,920 Speaker 1: We went to California and uh town again, town called Valeo, 78 00:04:14,960 --> 00:04:17,400 Speaker 1: which is just north of San Francisco. UH and it's 79 00:04:17,440 --> 00:04:20,360 Speaker 1: a blue collar shipyard town was a wonderful place to 80 00:04:20,400 --> 00:04:22,600 Speaker 1: grow up because everybody's old man worked in the shipyard. 81 00:04:22,839 --> 00:04:25,160 Speaker 1: Anybody who had any money had been bootleggers, would run 82 00:04:25,160 --> 00:04:27,120 Speaker 1: the whorehouses during the war. You know, it was just 83 00:04:27,279 --> 00:04:31,000 Speaker 1: everybody else. You know, it was the west. Where was 84 00:04:31,040 --> 00:04:33,960 Speaker 1: a house? Where's your old man work? You know, works 85 00:04:33,960 --> 00:04:35,520 Speaker 1: in the shipyard, you know, And they built all this 86 00:04:35,640 --> 00:04:38,320 Speaker 1: public housing so you live next to African Americans and 87 00:04:38,520 --> 00:04:40,720 Speaker 1: played ball with him in Mexicans. And it was a 88 00:04:40,720 --> 00:04:44,400 Speaker 1: classless society. So for me, it was a wonderful uh. 89 00:04:44,440 --> 00:04:48,200 Speaker 1: You know, my friends are every color, and every city 90 00:04:48,240 --> 00:04:50,599 Speaker 1: had never thought any of it. But it was all Democrats. 91 00:04:50,640 --> 00:04:52,320 Speaker 1: There was no I mean, I think there weren't ten 92 00:04:52,360 --> 00:04:55,360 Speaker 1: Republicans of the entire town. So needless to say, it 93 00:04:55,440 --> 00:04:59,640 Speaker 1: was an experience. When I became a prominent Republican nineteen 94 00:04:59,680 --> 00:05:03,040 Speaker 1: seventy two, I shifted kind of a you know, it's 95 00:05:03,160 --> 00:05:05,960 Speaker 1: the war was a variety of things, uh, and I 96 00:05:06,000 --> 00:05:08,640 Speaker 1: just felt that the Democratic Party was too left for 97 00:05:08,680 --> 00:05:12,120 Speaker 1: me at that point in time. I had real guilt 98 00:05:12,160 --> 00:05:14,800 Speaker 1: feelings about the war. Travis Air Force Base, with ever 99 00:05:14,880 --> 00:05:17,680 Speaker 1: bringing the Vietnam kids back the bodies, you know, it's 100 00:05:17,680 --> 00:05:21,000 Speaker 1: ten miles from my house. I broke my back playing football, 101 00:05:21,080 --> 00:05:22,839 Speaker 1: and so I tried to go the service, couldn't go, 102 00:05:22,960 --> 00:05:25,680 Speaker 1: and so I had these real heavy pangs of guilt 103 00:05:25,720 --> 00:05:28,479 Speaker 1: where I saw friends go and some die and some 104 00:05:28,600 --> 00:05:31,000 Speaker 1: be mangled. At that point in my life, I thought 105 00:05:31,600 --> 00:05:33,760 Speaker 1: those guys and Warsing are smart guys. You know, they 106 00:05:33,760 --> 00:05:37,640 Speaker 1: know what they're doing. Having spent twenty five years in 107 00:05:37,640 --> 00:05:40,400 Speaker 1: Washington and highest levels, I now know they don't, you know, 108 00:05:40,680 --> 00:05:42,680 Speaker 1: But at that point in time, I thought they did. 109 00:05:42,839 --> 00:05:44,680 Speaker 1: The Nixon was the first campaign I worked on at 110 00:05:44,760 --> 00:05:49,919 Speaker 1: seventy two. I've done a Bobby Kennedy man in probably 111 00:05:49,960 --> 00:05:51,680 Speaker 1: if he would have lived, I probably would have stayed 112 00:05:51,680 --> 00:05:55,359 Speaker 1: a Democrat. And then when I became a Republican, I 113 00:05:55,440 --> 00:05:57,960 Speaker 1: tried to change the Republican Party and make it a 114 00:05:57,960 --> 00:06:00,919 Speaker 1: working people's party. I was sort of architect of the 115 00:06:00,960 --> 00:06:03,240 Speaker 1: Reagan Democrat, which was sort of what I grew up 116 00:06:03,240 --> 00:06:05,200 Speaker 1: and sort of what you grew up. So that switched 117 00:06:05,200 --> 00:06:09,200 Speaker 1: for you. Kennedy's assassinated in sixty eight and Nixon becomes president. 118 00:06:09,600 --> 00:06:11,719 Speaker 1: You weren't signed on to Nixon, so to speak. I 119 00:06:11,760 --> 00:06:15,480 Speaker 1: was not signed on sixty eight at all. Now, uh, 120 00:06:15,960 --> 00:06:19,360 Speaker 1: How does your association with Bachmann begin? What's the genesis 121 00:06:19,360 --> 00:06:20,680 Speaker 1: of that? How does that work? Did they call you? 122 00:06:20,720 --> 00:06:24,240 Speaker 1: They they call you. You You know, I don't run campaigns 123 00:06:24,279 --> 00:06:26,480 Speaker 1: for a living. I sort of do friends from time 124 00:06:26,480 --> 00:06:28,400 Speaker 1: to time, or I try and be a change agent 125 00:06:28,440 --> 00:06:31,440 Speaker 1: for the party. I'll take on an African American candidate 126 00:06:31,440 --> 00:06:33,960 Speaker 1: who doesn't have any resources to broaden the base, or 127 00:06:34,000 --> 00:06:36,800 Speaker 1: woman candidate. I was going to do my Cuckabees campaign. 128 00:06:36,839 --> 00:06:39,240 Speaker 1: I had run his campaign four years ago, and I 129 00:06:39,240 --> 00:06:40,640 Speaker 1: thought I had a real shot at it, and so 130 00:06:40,680 --> 00:06:43,240 Speaker 1: I spent six eight months with him trying to get 131 00:06:43,240 --> 00:06:45,840 Speaker 1: a real campaign together for him on like the one 132 00:06:45,880 --> 00:06:48,320 Speaker 1: we had last time. So when he made a determination 133 00:06:48,360 --> 00:06:49,960 Speaker 1: not to run, you know, I'd sort of put a 134 00:06:49,960 --> 00:06:53,240 Speaker 1: team together, put a strategy together a little bit, and 135 00:06:53,240 --> 00:06:54,960 Speaker 1: and I was trying to think, Okay, is there anybody 136 00:06:54,960 --> 00:06:57,960 Speaker 1: else they could fit that model? And Bachman came to 137 00:06:58,000 --> 00:07:00,040 Speaker 1: me several times, came to me. I didn't have a 138 00:07:00,080 --> 00:07:03,279 Speaker 1: good first initial reaction to her. There's a little high 139 00:07:03,279 --> 00:07:06,480 Speaker 1: strong house members, very difficult to you know, it's I mean, 140 00:07:06,480 --> 00:07:09,200 Speaker 1: it's not I've done Katherine Harris's campaign when she ran 141 00:07:09,240 --> 00:07:10,880 Speaker 1: for the Senate, and there was. There was too much 142 00:07:10,960 --> 00:07:14,200 Speaker 1: similarity there. So I turned her down and I said 143 00:07:14,240 --> 00:07:15,800 Speaker 1: to her, you know, the only way I'll do a 144 00:07:15,840 --> 00:07:18,400 Speaker 1: campaign at this point in my life is and you'll 145 00:07:18,440 --> 00:07:22,080 Speaker 1: understand this totally. Ronald Reagan was the best candidate ever. 146 00:07:22,200 --> 00:07:24,200 Speaker 1: And Ronald Reagan once said to me, you have to 147 00:07:24,240 --> 00:07:27,960 Speaker 1: understand you're my director. He knew what his part was. 148 00:07:28,000 --> 00:07:30,560 Speaker 1: He knew, you know, he understood that someone had hit 149 00:07:30,680 --> 00:07:32,880 Speaker 1: the mark. Someone has to see the whole picture as 150 00:07:32,880 --> 00:07:35,400 Speaker 1: opposed to you know, you do it, You're you're concentrating 151 00:07:35,440 --> 00:07:37,560 Speaker 1: on your part, but someone has to see them all 152 00:07:37,600 --> 00:07:40,200 Speaker 1: the other elements of it. And so ever since then, 153 00:07:40,560 --> 00:07:42,840 Speaker 1: I've always said that I'm the director. I've done this 154 00:07:43,040 --> 00:07:45,800 Speaker 1: a lot of times. So I said, there the only 155 00:07:45,800 --> 00:07:47,760 Speaker 1: way I'll do this is if I can pick my team. 156 00:07:48,040 --> 00:07:50,640 Speaker 1: It's your campaign. Obviously, won't do anything you're not happy with, 157 00:07:51,000 --> 00:07:52,480 Speaker 1: but at the end of the day, I gotta run it. 158 00:07:52,560 --> 00:07:53,920 Speaker 1: If you want to run it, then find you go 159 00:07:54,040 --> 00:07:56,120 Speaker 1: run it, you know, and I'll go back home. So, 160 00:07:56,240 --> 00:07:58,000 Speaker 1: you know, she came back to me and she said, 161 00:07:58,040 --> 00:07:59,680 Speaker 1: it's yours, you run it. You do whatever you want 162 00:07:59,680 --> 00:08:01,240 Speaker 1: to do with that was that was pretty good for 163 00:08:01,240 --> 00:08:03,760 Speaker 1: about six or eight weeks and then uh, you know, 164 00:08:03,800 --> 00:08:08,480 Speaker 1: obviously we won the straw poll and no time in 165 00:08:08,560 --> 00:08:11,680 Speaker 1: Iowa and I when she came back again, what changed? 166 00:08:12,400 --> 00:08:15,560 Speaker 1: What changed I think was partly she had become a 167 00:08:15,640 --> 00:08:19,080 Speaker 1: national figure and so everyone wanted her to go to 168 00:08:19,160 --> 00:08:22,480 Speaker 1: Florida and South Carolina. And at the end of the day, 169 00:08:22,800 --> 00:08:25,280 Speaker 1: what I kept trying to tell her, your ticket out 170 00:08:25,320 --> 00:08:28,239 Speaker 1: is Iowa. Romney's the front runner at that point in time, 171 00:08:28,600 --> 00:08:30,520 Speaker 1: and they'll be a chaser, and the chaser will come 172 00:08:30,520 --> 00:08:34,280 Speaker 1: out of Iowa or normally New Hampshire, but Romney is 173 00:08:34,280 --> 00:08:36,000 Speaker 1: gonna win to Hampshire. So the only place for you 174 00:08:36,040 --> 00:08:38,280 Speaker 1: to get your ticket out, sort of like the the 175 00:08:38,320 --> 00:08:41,080 Speaker 1: Final sixty four basketball about how great your team is. 176 00:08:41,400 --> 00:08:43,840 Speaker 1: You gotta win every week, and I was the first week. 177 00:08:43,920 --> 00:08:46,880 Speaker 1: And the Giuliani example four years ago was the perfect example. 178 00:08:47,440 --> 00:08:50,000 Speaker 1: Leading in every pole, decides I'm gonna skip everything and 179 00:08:50,040 --> 00:08:53,079 Speaker 1: go to Florida and got nothing. Fred Thompson the same way, 180 00:08:53,200 --> 00:08:55,280 Speaker 1: got nothing. What's happened? Do you think? To Bockman During 181 00:08:55,320 --> 00:08:57,760 Speaker 1: the race, there were all these questions about, you know, 182 00:08:57,800 --> 00:09:00,480 Speaker 1: her provenance and these schools she went doing, her teachers 183 00:09:00,520 --> 00:09:02,800 Speaker 1: and their religious use and so forth. None of that 184 00:09:02,840 --> 00:09:07,120 Speaker 1: bothered you. None of that As an ideological Christian conservative. 185 00:09:07,120 --> 00:09:08,960 Speaker 1: I'm a Catholic. I'm like you, you know, and I 186 00:09:08,960 --> 00:09:10,760 Speaker 1: get to struggle with my own faith every day, and 187 00:09:10,760 --> 00:09:16,280 Speaker 1: I'm very private. It's very room exactly, and that's the 188 00:09:16,280 --> 00:09:17,760 Speaker 1: way it is. You know. I had a little bit 189 00:09:17,800 --> 00:09:20,120 Speaker 1: of experience with it last time with Huckabee. You know, 190 00:09:20,200 --> 00:09:22,040 Speaker 1: he was a Baptist minister, and he would go in 191 00:09:22,120 --> 00:09:25,280 Speaker 1: the churches on Sunday and just flick a switch. The 192 00:09:25,320 --> 00:09:28,360 Speaker 1: politics of the week shut down on Sundays. He could 193 00:09:28,400 --> 00:09:31,559 Speaker 1: go in there and give this extraordinary sermon and then 194 00:09:31,559 --> 00:09:34,000 Speaker 1: the switch went back on. He never took the sermon 195 00:09:34,000 --> 00:09:37,240 Speaker 1: out of the church into the politics. And in her 196 00:09:37,320 --> 00:09:39,520 Speaker 1: particular case, what I said to her early on, as 197 00:09:39,559 --> 00:09:42,560 Speaker 1: I said, okay, everybody in this race is against Obama. Okay, 198 00:09:42,800 --> 00:09:45,600 Speaker 1: so saying you're against Obama against Obamacare all arrest. It's 199 00:09:45,600 --> 00:09:47,679 Speaker 1: all fine, well and good, except it doesn't move you forward. 200 00:09:48,000 --> 00:09:50,199 Speaker 1: What you have to say is I want to abolish Obamacare, 201 00:09:50,200 --> 00:09:51,440 Speaker 1: and here's what I want to put in his place. 202 00:09:51,720 --> 00:09:54,400 Speaker 1: And I could never get to that hurdle. She liked 203 00:09:54,400 --> 00:09:57,440 Speaker 1: the applause lines the Tea Party type stuff, and and 204 00:09:57,480 --> 00:09:59,920 Speaker 1: I think part of it was she just wasn't wee 205 00:10:00,080 --> 00:10:02,800 Speaker 1: the campaign together very quickly. These things take a year 206 00:10:02,840 --> 00:10:05,920 Speaker 1: of preparation, and we didn't have that. What happened with Huckaby? 207 00:10:06,040 --> 00:10:09,240 Speaker 1: Do you think I think he basically he had come 208 00:10:09,320 --> 00:10:11,280 Speaker 1: right out of the governorship. It was sort of like 209 00:10:11,320 --> 00:10:13,959 Speaker 1: the next thing to do. Not that anybody gets heart 210 00:10:14,640 --> 00:10:16,560 Speaker 1: at this time. His heart wasn't in it, you know, 211 00:10:16,600 --> 00:10:18,560 Speaker 1: my senses. He'd have been a great candidate. I was 212 00:10:18,600 --> 00:10:20,280 Speaker 1: convinced it was going to be a duel between Huckaby 213 00:10:20,280 --> 00:10:21,960 Speaker 1: and Round. It would have been, I'm telling you would 214 00:10:21,960 --> 00:10:24,360 Speaker 1: about it would have been Mono and Mono, and I 215 00:10:24,440 --> 00:10:28,240 Speaker 1: had it all strategized, and that's what that us. That's 216 00:10:28,240 --> 00:10:31,680 Speaker 1: why I had it. And I knew that my game, 217 00:10:31,720 --> 00:10:34,439 Speaker 1: and I had spent two years thinking about it, you know. 218 00:10:34,559 --> 00:10:36,959 Speaker 1: But as I said to him, I can't want it 219 00:10:37,040 --> 00:10:39,839 Speaker 1: more than you want it. Good point. And do you 220 00:10:39,920 --> 00:10:42,959 Speaker 1: find sometimes you do? I love the game. But it's 221 00:10:42,960 --> 00:10:46,400 Speaker 1: amazing how you said that, to say you're against Obamacare 222 00:10:46,480 --> 00:10:49,480 Speaker 1: and not step up and uh and offer your alternative. 223 00:10:49,800 --> 00:10:52,839 Speaker 1: It's amazing how many politicians on both sides of the 224 00:10:52,920 --> 00:10:56,360 Speaker 1: aisle underestimate it just doesn't do enough for you to say, 225 00:10:56,920 --> 00:10:59,040 Speaker 1: you know, kill Obama, so to speak to his administration. 226 00:10:59,320 --> 00:11:01,120 Speaker 1: You made a come and in an interview you were 227 00:11:01,160 --> 00:11:03,439 Speaker 1: giving which as you said, you know, was Kane a 228 00:11:03,559 --> 00:11:06,560 Speaker 1: serious guy or was he just an entertainer? And then 229 00:11:06,640 --> 00:11:09,319 Speaker 1: you said, does he have the temperament to be president? 230 00:11:09,880 --> 00:11:11,800 Speaker 1: Is that in your mind one of the key elements 231 00:11:11,840 --> 00:11:13,800 Speaker 1: of the temperament of being president is being able to 232 00:11:13,920 --> 00:11:17,000 Speaker 1: create policy and have ideas well, it's it's I worked 233 00:11:17,040 --> 00:11:19,920 Speaker 1: for four presidents, uh, and I've spent you know, eight 234 00:11:20,000 --> 00:11:21,679 Speaker 1: ten years of my life in a White House in 235 00:11:21,760 --> 00:11:23,640 Speaker 1: twenty five years of my life around and go through 236 00:11:23,679 --> 00:11:25,520 Speaker 1: all four and describe how they were in terms of 237 00:11:25,600 --> 00:11:29,480 Speaker 1: their own authorship of public policy. Nixon was brilliant, very 238 00:11:29,520 --> 00:11:31,839 Speaker 1: aggressive mentally and and gets a great credit on the 239 00:11:31,840 --> 00:11:33,800 Speaker 1: foreign policy arena, but he did great things on the 240 00:11:33,840 --> 00:11:36,199 Speaker 1: domestic He created an e p A. You know, Ford 241 00:11:36,360 --> 00:11:38,760 Speaker 1: was been a decent house leader. You know, it was 242 00:11:38,800 --> 00:11:41,040 Speaker 1: sort of an accident. Not the temperament for the president's 243 00:11:41,280 --> 00:11:42,760 Speaker 1: not the big picture he was not. He was not 244 00:11:42,840 --> 00:11:45,959 Speaker 1: a big big picture guy. You know. Carter obviously was 245 00:11:46,360 --> 00:11:48,480 Speaker 1: was not someone I worked for, but I got to 246 00:11:48,520 --> 00:11:51,559 Speaker 1: watch him up close, and I he problem. You know, 247 00:11:51,640 --> 00:11:53,719 Speaker 1: he was a micromanager. He was an engineer, and he 248 00:11:53,800 --> 00:11:56,120 Speaker 1: wanted he wanted to manage everything. And the reality of 249 00:11:56,240 --> 00:11:59,560 Speaker 1: the president isn't a management job. The president is an 250 00:11:59,600 --> 00:12:03,000 Speaker 1: inspire rational job, and he sets a direction. He has 251 00:12:03,160 --> 00:12:06,360 Speaker 1: four or five big decisions to make every day. If 252 00:12:06,400 --> 00:12:09,520 Speaker 1: you have an inability to make decisions, then they basically 253 00:12:09,640 --> 00:12:11,439 Speaker 1: stack up on you. And he thought Carter was weak 254 00:12:11,480 --> 00:12:13,640 Speaker 1: on that. I thought Carter was a micromanager. I thought 255 00:12:13,679 --> 00:12:16,880 Speaker 1: Bill Clinton overthought it. Bill Clinton had an ongoing seminar, 256 00:12:17,040 --> 00:12:18,920 Speaker 1: but he was viewed as a very decisive guy. You 257 00:12:18,960 --> 00:12:22,400 Speaker 1: think that that's an unfair Uh, let me just say this. 258 00:12:22,679 --> 00:12:25,720 Speaker 1: I think Bill Clinton became a much better president as 259 00:12:25,800 --> 00:12:27,840 Speaker 1: time went on, and I think as we reflect back 260 00:12:28,000 --> 00:12:31,199 Speaker 1: on his presidency, there's not many people in America who 261 00:12:31,200 --> 00:12:33,679 Speaker 1: wouldn't rather have him than who we have today. And 262 00:12:33,800 --> 00:12:36,120 Speaker 1: that doesn't mean he wouldn't be a very viable candidate again. 263 00:12:36,920 --> 00:12:38,400 Speaker 1: You know, he was a charming man. He had a 264 00:12:38,400 --> 00:12:41,439 Speaker 1: great ability to make people feel good about themselves. You 265 00:12:41,480 --> 00:12:44,040 Speaker 1: know Reagan, who I worked for and was closest to. Uh, 266 00:12:44,400 --> 00:12:47,760 Speaker 1: you know, Reagan had a core of beliefs that he 267 00:12:47,840 --> 00:12:51,240 Speaker 1: had like you, In addition to having a career, he 268 00:12:51,440 --> 00:12:55,040 Speaker 1: basically was interested in politics for thirty years. He thought 269 00:12:55,120 --> 00:12:59,560 Speaker 1: on paper people underestimated his intelligence. He read, he wrote, 270 00:13:00,480 --> 00:13:04,119 Speaker 1: He knew who he was, and he had three major principles, 271 00:13:04,280 --> 00:13:06,120 Speaker 1: four major principles of things that he wanted to do. 272 00:13:06,840 --> 00:13:10,200 Speaker 1: One is he was been fighting communists since his days 273 00:13:10,200 --> 00:13:12,760 Speaker 1: in all I would so he made a gigantic investment 274 00:13:12,880 --> 00:13:15,360 Speaker 1: to rebuild the defenses the country so that the Soviets 275 00:13:15,400 --> 00:13:19,679 Speaker 1: would treat us with respect, just to throw for for 276 00:13:19,840 --> 00:13:22,760 Speaker 1: arguments like the liberal side to this, I've seen this 277 00:13:22,840 --> 00:13:26,680 Speaker 1: going cycles where you have a lull crisis of the spirit, 278 00:13:26,760 --> 00:13:28,559 Speaker 1: so to speak, after the Vietnam War, and we do 279 00:13:28,720 --> 00:13:32,120 Speaker 1: collapse defense spending, and that's a mistake. But then Reagan 280 00:13:32,200 --> 00:13:34,559 Speaker 1: comes and starts to ramp up defense spending again. For 281 00:13:34,720 --> 00:13:37,040 Speaker 1: my money, we probably would have less of a swing 282 00:13:37,120 --> 00:13:39,360 Speaker 1: of the penduluman if the wars themselves weren't such a 283 00:13:39,400 --> 00:13:42,120 Speaker 1: waste of time. My question for you is did you 284 00:13:42,240 --> 00:13:45,160 Speaker 1: think that the Vietnam War amounted to anything? Certainly not today. 285 00:13:45,240 --> 00:13:47,280 Speaker 1: I mean, what what had amount to is that fifty 286 00:13:47,840 --> 00:13:50,719 Speaker 1: plus men were killed and we divided this country. What 287 00:13:50,760 --> 00:13:52,720 Speaker 1: impact did it have on our lives at all? It had. 288 00:13:52,840 --> 00:13:55,719 Speaker 1: It had a terrible impact because it divided America, and 289 00:13:55,840 --> 00:13:57,679 Speaker 1: I think to a certain extent as you'd reflect back, 290 00:13:57,760 --> 00:14:01,800 Speaker 1: and I was very pro Vietnam War because my father 291 00:14:01,920 --> 00:14:04,240 Speaker 1: had been in the service. Everybody around me was in 292 00:14:04,320 --> 00:14:06,960 Speaker 1: the service. So it was a real basic my country 293 00:14:07,080 --> 00:14:09,920 Speaker 1: right around, my country, my country right or wrong. Absolutely, 294 00:14:10,400 --> 00:14:12,240 Speaker 1: And at the end of the day, you know, my 295 00:14:12,480 --> 00:14:15,839 Speaker 1: sense is I'm very close to military people. I have 296 00:14:16,040 --> 00:14:19,600 Speaker 1: great affection for them. Both my brother and my father 297 00:14:19,720 --> 00:14:23,720 Speaker 1: were servicemen. But I saw that the tragic stuff that 298 00:14:23,840 --> 00:14:26,200 Speaker 1: happened at the end of the day, I like the 299 00:14:26,280 --> 00:14:30,800 Speaker 1: pile doctrine. Cap Weinberger basically asked the flag officers who 300 00:14:30,840 --> 00:14:33,040 Speaker 1: had been the captains and the majors in Vietnam to 301 00:14:33,120 --> 00:14:36,200 Speaker 1: give us rules. Tell us what are the rules of engagement? 302 00:14:36,640 --> 00:14:39,800 Speaker 1: Those four things I remember exactly. Don't ever go to 303 00:14:39,880 --> 00:14:42,560 Speaker 1: war where the US doesn't have a real interest, Don't 304 00:14:42,600 --> 00:14:45,080 Speaker 1: ever go to war unless we have American support behind it. 305 00:14:45,680 --> 00:14:48,400 Speaker 1: Always go with overwhelming force so that our troops did 306 00:14:48,400 --> 00:14:50,440 Speaker 1: not put a disadvantage. And always have an exit strategy. 307 00:14:50,840 --> 00:14:52,880 Speaker 1: Have we had that in these last two wars? No, 308 00:14:53,040 --> 00:14:55,080 Speaker 1: we did not. We had it in the first Iraq 309 00:14:55,560 --> 00:14:59,840 Speaker 1: the Kuwait War. We went with overwhelming force. We yeah 310 00:15:00,080 --> 00:15:02,960 Speaker 1: going in Afghanistan. Giving that government the opportunity to give 311 00:15:03,040 --> 00:15:05,560 Speaker 1: up the bin Laden, getting the Taliban out of there 312 00:15:05,640 --> 00:15:08,800 Speaker 1: was a worthwhile effort. In hindsight, who cared about Iraq? 313 00:15:08,880 --> 00:15:11,160 Speaker 1: It didn't matter. You know. We look at these two 314 00:15:11,240 --> 00:15:12,960 Speaker 1: wars and I think to myself, if I was the president, 315 00:15:13,040 --> 00:15:16,280 Speaker 1: forget about Iraq, I would have assassinated Saddam Hussein later 316 00:15:16,360 --> 00:15:18,680 Speaker 1: on somehow, or taken him prisoner and put him on trial. 317 00:15:19,080 --> 00:15:21,160 Speaker 1: But I would have built the mother of all military 318 00:15:21,200 --> 00:15:24,520 Speaker 1: basis right because Pakistan is the enemy. Pakistan is the 319 00:15:24,840 --> 00:15:26,880 Speaker 1: most dangerous country. I would build the mother of all 320 00:15:26,960 --> 00:15:30,600 Speaker 1: military basis right on the Pakistani board of But while 321 00:15:30,640 --> 00:15:32,280 Speaker 1: I was doing that, I would fly around the world 322 00:15:32,320 --> 00:15:34,400 Speaker 1: and I would get the leaders of the most reliable 323 00:15:34,440 --> 00:15:36,600 Speaker 1: allies who had some funds, and I'd say to them, 324 00:15:36,840 --> 00:15:39,360 Speaker 1: you must give us something. We're gonna have a coalition 325 00:15:39,400 --> 00:15:41,480 Speaker 1: of twelve or fourteen countries, and if you don't, I'm 326 00:15:41,520 --> 00:15:44,840 Speaker 1: gonna make your life miserable. I wanted to have half 327 00:15:44,880 --> 00:15:47,880 Speaker 1: a million men on the ground in Afghanistan. You know, 328 00:15:48,040 --> 00:15:50,280 Speaker 1: leaflet the whole place, say get out, We're coming and 329 00:15:50,440 --> 00:15:52,280 Speaker 1: drawing them, and if they make one move, we don't 330 00:15:52,320 --> 00:15:54,960 Speaker 1: like we go when we just crushed Pakistan with five people. 331 00:15:55,080 --> 00:15:57,520 Speaker 1: What do you think of that idea? Uh, it's for 332 00:15:57,760 --> 00:16:01,760 Speaker 1: Hollywood liberals, it's pretty darn good. But I know, I 333 00:16:01,840 --> 00:16:05,720 Speaker 1: know that's where terrorism that is there. I think I 334 00:16:05,760 --> 00:16:08,240 Speaker 1: think the battle against terrorism is an ongoing war, and 335 00:16:08,320 --> 00:16:10,400 Speaker 1: I think to a certain extent, we need to continue it. Uh. 336 00:16:11,000 --> 00:16:14,280 Speaker 1: My fear of this whole thing. And you know, as 337 00:16:14,320 --> 00:16:17,480 Speaker 1: you look in the future as a strategist, you alway, 338 00:16:17,480 --> 00:16:20,160 Speaker 1: I always try and look to the future, the next region. 339 00:16:20,240 --> 00:16:21,960 Speaker 1: We all focus right now in them at least, But 340 00:16:22,040 --> 00:16:24,280 Speaker 1: the Pacific is really the big region. I mean, it's 341 00:16:24,360 --> 00:16:28,400 Speaker 1: the China, but China, you know, Japan, Vietnam, all these 342 00:16:28,480 --> 00:16:32,000 Speaker 1: all these emerging countries. And I have a Chinese daughter. 343 00:16:32,240 --> 00:16:34,880 Speaker 1: I adopted a child from China, and China twenty times. 344 00:16:34,920 --> 00:16:38,560 Speaker 1: I love China. China is not a military threat to 345 00:16:38,680 --> 00:16:41,440 Speaker 1: us at this point in time. China is building submarines 346 00:16:41,480 --> 00:16:44,120 Speaker 1: to protect their assets. They've never been an invading country. 347 00:16:44,160 --> 00:16:46,760 Speaker 1: They're a country that basically, you know, in the absurdity 348 00:16:46,800 --> 00:16:49,960 Speaker 1: of US was talking about the emerging China. China has 349 00:16:50,000 --> 00:16:53,120 Speaker 1: been there for five thousand years, you know, right and 350 00:16:53,280 --> 00:16:55,120 Speaker 1: and or any place else say that they have watched 351 00:16:55,200 --> 00:16:56,840 Speaker 1: us emerged. They have not watched, you know, and they 352 00:16:56,920 --> 00:16:59,960 Speaker 1: watched many countries come and fall. My sense is every 353 00:17:00,040 --> 00:17:02,400 Speaker 1: time China build an aircraft carrier, we don't have to 354 00:17:02,440 --> 00:17:05,159 Speaker 1: go nuts and worry about going to war. You know. 355 00:17:05,280 --> 00:17:08,639 Speaker 1: For me, it's my country, right or wrong, but never unfunded. 356 00:17:09,320 --> 00:17:11,760 Speaker 1: And that is that the problem in our society today 357 00:17:11,880 --> 00:17:13,720 Speaker 1: is that we need to raise taxes. Do you believe 358 00:17:13,760 --> 00:17:15,720 Speaker 1: we need to raise taxes. I believe we need to 359 00:17:15,840 --> 00:17:19,199 Speaker 1: raise revenue. So beyond taxes. However we raise revene, well 360 00:17:19,200 --> 00:17:21,120 Speaker 1: you get people back to work. No one has come 361 00:17:21,240 --> 00:17:24,320 Speaker 1: forth with a plan to me to show me how 362 00:17:24,840 --> 00:17:27,119 Speaker 1: raising taxes basically does any of the rest of it, 363 00:17:27,720 --> 00:17:29,560 Speaker 1: you know. I mean I find it appalling today when 364 00:17:29,560 --> 00:17:31,879 Speaker 1: you read in the in the New York Post. You know, 365 00:17:31,960 --> 00:17:34,480 Speaker 1: all the major corporations that you know are not paying taxes. 366 00:17:34,520 --> 00:17:35,920 Speaker 1: I mean, they got all the loopholes in the world. 367 00:17:36,000 --> 00:17:38,320 Speaker 1: So to me, I'd eliminate all the loopholes, I would, 368 00:17:38,480 --> 00:17:40,200 Speaker 1: you know, I don't think everybody's going to pay something. 369 00:17:40,440 --> 00:17:42,840 Speaker 1: Everybody has to pay something, and and and I think 370 00:17:42,880 --> 00:17:45,640 Speaker 1: every well, I think every American would want to pay something, 371 00:17:45,720 --> 00:17:47,959 Speaker 1: even if it's fifty or a hundred buck minimum at 372 00:17:48,000 --> 00:17:49,639 Speaker 1: the end of at the end of your bill, I mean, 373 00:17:49,680 --> 00:17:52,000 Speaker 1: you can't have the taxes the corporations are not paying 374 00:17:52,119 --> 00:17:56,399 Speaker 1: is merely going towards executive pay, which has become Ye, 375 00:17:56,560 --> 00:17:58,919 Speaker 1: it's it's you know, it's it's it's obscene. And at 376 00:17:58,920 --> 00:18:01,000 Speaker 1: the end of the day, I mean the idea that 377 00:18:01,320 --> 00:18:04,080 Speaker 1: I teach it houstro These young kids that are that 378 00:18:04,160 --> 00:18:06,320 Speaker 1: are great kids. You know, your your neck of the 379 00:18:06,320 --> 00:18:08,959 Speaker 1: woods out there, you know, blue collar kids going out 380 00:18:08,960 --> 00:18:12,119 Speaker 1: of school can't find jobs. That eliminates hope. And somehow 381 00:18:12,160 --> 00:18:14,400 Speaker 1: we have to we have to fix that. You asked 382 00:18:14,400 --> 00:18:18,199 Speaker 1: me about Reagan earlier. Reagan leaved deeply in this country, 383 00:18:18,320 --> 00:18:20,680 Speaker 1: and he inspired this country, and he made Americans feel 384 00:18:20,680 --> 00:18:23,239 Speaker 1: good about themselves again. He was proud of America, got 385 00:18:23,320 --> 00:18:25,760 Speaker 1: up every day, was proud of America. To me, Reagan, 386 00:18:26,040 --> 00:18:27,520 Speaker 1: because I have a very different view of Reagan than 387 00:18:27,560 --> 00:18:30,320 Speaker 1: you do. He was a failed actor who in my business, 388 00:18:30,359 --> 00:18:32,720 Speaker 1: what happened. You become ripe and you fall from that 389 00:18:32,920 --> 00:18:35,000 Speaker 1: tree and you go and he went into this other 390 00:18:35,040 --> 00:18:36,760 Speaker 1: field because it was a role for him to play. 391 00:18:37,040 --> 00:18:39,720 Speaker 1: But more importantly, when you say Reagan made people feel 392 00:18:39,760 --> 00:18:42,879 Speaker 1: good about themselves, I except where some people see that. 393 00:18:43,160 --> 00:18:46,000 Speaker 1: But what Reagan said to our society was, if it's 394 00:18:46,000 --> 00:18:48,880 Speaker 1: your choice between you having a swimming pool and you've 395 00:18:48,880 --> 00:18:52,720 Speaker 1: worked really really hard and some poor person getting some 396 00:18:53,280 --> 00:18:55,800 Speaker 1: public entitlement or going to school, what have you? Damn 397 00:18:55,840 --> 00:18:58,040 Speaker 1: it all, you should have your swimming pool. The government's 398 00:18:58,080 --> 00:19:01,360 Speaker 1: making that choice for you. And Reagan seduced a whole 399 00:19:01,440 --> 00:19:04,000 Speaker 1: generation of Americans into believing you should have what you 400 00:19:04,119 --> 00:19:05,560 Speaker 1: want more than they should have what they need, and 401 00:19:05,560 --> 00:19:08,000 Speaker 1: don't feel guilty. Well I think that's yeah, I think 402 00:19:08,000 --> 00:19:10,480 Speaker 1: that's overstated. I mean, obviously you're entitled your point of view. 403 00:19:10,760 --> 00:19:13,600 Speaker 1: Reagan grew up in the generation as did I. I'm 404 00:19:14,000 --> 00:19:16,800 Speaker 1: sixty eight. My old man said, you're going to college. 405 00:19:16,840 --> 00:19:18,480 Speaker 1: I don't care what you made your and but you're 406 00:19:18,520 --> 00:19:20,639 Speaker 1: going to college. And when I had that education, my 407 00:19:20,760 --> 00:19:22,440 Speaker 1: life was going to be better than my father's life. 408 00:19:22,800 --> 00:19:25,200 Speaker 1: And obviously it has been. Uh, and that was the 409 00:19:25,320 --> 00:19:28,200 Speaker 1: dream and and uh, you know, I mean I get changed, 410 00:19:28,240 --> 00:19:31,120 Speaker 1: it's changed, and and that's and that's the scary part 411 00:19:31,240 --> 00:19:34,000 Speaker 1: today you have a daughter. I have a daughter. I 412 00:19:34,119 --> 00:19:36,520 Speaker 1: look in the eyes of my daughter at the world, 413 00:19:37,040 --> 00:19:39,040 Speaker 1: and I once said, when she was an infant, I said, 414 00:19:39,040 --> 00:19:41,040 Speaker 1: I hope somedays she doesn't regret the fact that we 415 00:19:41,119 --> 00:19:42,840 Speaker 1: took her out of China. You know. And at that 416 00:19:42,920 --> 00:19:45,320 Speaker 1: time it was a ridiculous statement to make, because China 417 00:19:45,440 --> 00:19:48,520 Speaker 1: was never gonna be anything Johnas did an extraordinary country. 418 00:19:48,560 --> 00:19:51,520 Speaker 1: You might have been better off the oortunity opportunities she's 419 00:19:51,520 --> 00:19:55,399 Speaker 1: she's taking Chinese, uh, but she can state college right 420 00:19:56,080 --> 00:19:57,479 Speaker 1: at the end of the day, you know. I mean, 421 00:19:57,520 --> 00:19:59,200 Speaker 1: she's lived a great life and she's a one old 422 00:19:59,680 --> 00:20:01,880 Speaker 1: she's Si Steam and she's the joy of my life. 423 00:20:01,920 --> 00:20:04,159 Speaker 1: But it just, I guess the thing that bothers me 424 00:20:04,280 --> 00:20:07,159 Speaker 1: the most. I first went to Warston in February nineteen 425 00:20:07,240 --> 00:20:11,000 Speaker 1: seventy three. When I went there, there was plenty partisan 426 00:20:11,880 --> 00:20:13,800 Speaker 1: but there was a social environment to it. You don't 427 00:20:13,840 --> 00:20:18,159 Speaker 1: you didn't hate each other, and and and and you know, 428 00:20:18,440 --> 00:20:22,119 Speaker 1: Teddy Kennedy and and and and you shook hands, you 429 00:20:22,119 --> 00:20:24,119 Speaker 1: went on yet to drink. Chris Matthew is a perfect example. 430 00:20:24,119 --> 00:20:26,640 Speaker 1: He was Tip O'Neil's press secretary. You know, I yelled 431 00:20:26,640 --> 00:20:28,320 Speaker 1: at him four or five times. On the course. Today 432 00:20:28,359 --> 00:20:30,080 Speaker 1: we'd go and have a drink with great friends today. 433 00:20:30,119 --> 00:20:35,520 Speaker 1: You know, today there's a bitterness, there's a hatred, you know. 434 00:20:35,640 --> 00:20:37,679 Speaker 1: I think part of it is going to the too. Uh. 435 00:20:38,720 --> 00:20:42,120 Speaker 1: Nixon was part of its impeachment. I think the ugliness 436 00:20:42,240 --> 00:20:45,680 Speaker 1: began more. It started then, and then it became the 437 00:20:45,720 --> 00:20:48,439 Speaker 1: combination of the gym rights and the and the new gingrich. 438 00:20:48,560 --> 00:20:50,399 Speaker 1: That was the real battle, and not just knocking out 439 00:20:50,440 --> 00:20:53,520 Speaker 1: of president. We knocked out a speaker on a BS deal. 440 00:20:53,680 --> 00:20:55,480 Speaker 1: Wasn't like he was taking hundreds of thousands of dollars 441 00:20:55,520 --> 00:20:58,480 Speaker 1: of stupid book deal, petty theft at best, and not 442 00:20:58,600 --> 00:21:01,480 Speaker 1: even theft. Then what happened as they started drawing the 443 00:21:01,600 --> 00:21:05,120 Speaker 1: lines in a way that basically you couldn't have competition. 444 00:21:05,160 --> 00:21:07,440 Speaker 1: So now that's become an industry, hasn't it? This kind 445 00:21:07,440 --> 00:21:10,480 Speaker 1: of this kind of intel which brings us to Kane. 446 00:21:11,160 --> 00:21:14,280 Speaker 1: You know, with this particular primary season for the Republicans, 447 00:21:14,800 --> 00:21:16,800 Speaker 1: you've got a guy or a woman for that matter, 448 00:21:16,840 --> 00:21:19,200 Speaker 1: who are really they're at the top and they're looking good, 449 00:21:19,240 --> 00:21:21,639 Speaker 1: and then it's a bright shining day for them, and 450 00:21:21,720 --> 00:21:24,320 Speaker 1: then within a week or two they're gone like Kane. 451 00:21:25,080 --> 00:21:28,400 Speaker 1: Is this the condition for all people in your profession? 452 00:21:28,520 --> 00:21:31,840 Speaker 1: The political advisor you're working with someone you know, everybody's 453 00:21:31,840 --> 00:21:34,359 Speaker 1: got something in their closets. Do you think Cane's people 454 00:21:34,440 --> 00:21:37,159 Speaker 1: they obviously knew about this restaurant. He doesn't have a 455 00:21:37,240 --> 00:21:39,400 Speaker 1: real campaign, can get in this kind of on a lark. 456 00:21:39,480 --> 00:21:41,359 Speaker 1: He never expected to be a front runner. He never 457 00:21:41,440 --> 00:21:43,640 Speaker 1: expected he's weighing it. He's weighing it, and he's winging 458 00:21:43,680 --> 00:21:45,960 Speaker 1: it on substance. Uh, he didn't put the time in. 459 00:21:46,040 --> 00:21:48,119 Speaker 1: He doesn't have a team. His team is second tier 460 00:21:48,480 --> 00:21:50,720 Speaker 1: at best. Where you know, I mean the hat. He 461 00:21:50,760 --> 00:21:53,720 Speaker 1: had an advisor, a legit operation and advisor, as you 462 00:21:53,720 --> 00:21:55,880 Speaker 1: would understand that they might have done this. The first 463 00:21:55,960 --> 00:21:57,720 Speaker 1: the first thing I do in every campaign, and started 464 00:21:57,720 --> 00:22:00,240 Speaker 1: when I was running assembly races in California where you do. 465 00:22:00,440 --> 00:22:02,439 Speaker 1: I would sit down and I'd say, Alex, you want 466 00:22:02,480 --> 00:22:04,040 Speaker 1: to run for the Assembly. I want to check for 467 00:22:04,119 --> 00:22:07,399 Speaker 1: five thousand dollars printiple don't call me Alex, excuse me, okay, 468 00:22:08,640 --> 00:22:12,840 Speaker 1: mayor Baldwin mayor Bowen, Uh, Mr Bowen. The first thing 469 00:22:12,920 --> 00:22:14,840 Speaker 1: I do is ask you for five thousand dollars. And 470 00:22:14,920 --> 00:22:18,080 Speaker 1: I'd say what, I'm gonna hire a private detective and 471 00:22:18,160 --> 00:22:20,440 Speaker 1: I'm gonna go find out everything I can about you. 472 00:22:20,680 --> 00:22:22,440 Speaker 1: And I have Kennedy said, wellhy are you gonna do that? 473 00:22:22,520 --> 00:22:24,480 Speaker 1: So I'm gonna do it on him too. But at 474 00:22:24,520 --> 00:22:25,600 Speaker 1: the end of the day, all he has to do 475 00:22:25,640 --> 00:22:28,200 Speaker 1: is right at check, I have to come after. The 476 00:22:28,240 --> 00:22:30,000 Speaker 1: first thing I do is I sit down and I say, 477 00:22:30,040 --> 00:22:32,520 Speaker 1: pretend I'm your priest. You confess all your confess all 478 00:22:32,560 --> 00:22:35,040 Speaker 1: your sent I will tell you what their mortal of you. 479 00:22:35,119 --> 00:22:37,920 Speaker 1: You're not capable of making drink for your own good. 480 00:22:37,960 --> 00:22:39,399 Speaker 1: I've heard it all, you know, I don't care. Just 481 00:22:39,560 --> 00:22:46,120 Speaker 1: it's a and they always lie, yeah, and they always lie. 482 00:22:46,400 --> 00:22:48,480 Speaker 1: And when then it does come out, they go, you know, 483 00:22:48,480 --> 00:22:51,120 Speaker 1: I never thought that was gonna happen. Now, how could 484 00:22:51,160 --> 00:22:53,520 Speaker 1: you be a CEO of a trade? This is not 485 00:22:53,600 --> 00:22:56,720 Speaker 1: the Pentagon, This is not a gigantic organization. And you 486 00:22:56,800 --> 00:23:00,320 Speaker 1: have to not one but two and you're part and 487 00:23:00,400 --> 00:23:02,879 Speaker 1: probably other things that were you know, uh didn't even 488 00:23:02,880 --> 00:23:04,800 Speaker 1: come to charge and and and you wouldn't say the 489 00:23:04,880 --> 00:23:07,040 Speaker 1: first thing you would say, hey, can we check this 490 00:23:07,200 --> 00:23:09,960 Speaker 1: out or can we go look at it? So it's 491 00:23:09,960 --> 00:23:12,040 Speaker 1: amateur our I mean, obviously he's not going to be 492 00:23:12,119 --> 00:23:13,639 Speaker 1: the nominee of the party, and it wasn't even if 493 00:23:13,680 --> 00:23:16,240 Speaker 1: this hadn't come about. It's a sad thing for the party, 494 00:23:16,320 --> 00:23:18,400 Speaker 1: sad thing for him at the end of the day. 495 00:23:18,400 --> 00:23:20,520 Speaker 1: I mean, I mean, an articulate African American is a 496 00:23:20,600 --> 00:23:22,600 Speaker 1: very important thing for the Republican Party because we don't 497 00:23:22,640 --> 00:23:24,520 Speaker 1: have any. And I think at the end of the day, 498 00:23:25,080 --> 00:23:28,840 Speaker 1: you know, he may survive this trauma, but he's not 499 00:23:28,880 --> 00:23:30,440 Speaker 1: going to survive this in the sense of being a 500 00:23:30,520 --> 00:23:32,920 Speaker 1: viable candidate. Do you think that Perry has any shot 501 00:23:33,000 --> 00:23:36,000 Speaker 1: of the nomination? Right? If I was perry strategist, Perry 502 00:23:36,080 --> 00:23:40,080 Speaker 1: has twenty million dollars at least sitting there who's doing 503 00:23:40,119 --> 00:23:41,920 Speaker 1: well with money, doing well with money. But he's still 504 00:23:41,920 --> 00:23:44,480 Speaker 1: a Texas governor. But all he has to do is 505 00:23:44,640 --> 00:23:47,840 Speaker 1: win two states. He has to win ioways to win 506 00:23:47,920 --> 00:23:49,560 Speaker 1: South Can you think he will? Who? Do you pretty 507 00:23:49,560 --> 00:23:52,840 Speaker 1: well win South Carolina? Whoever wins Iowa? Or do you 508 00:23:52,920 --> 00:23:54,520 Speaker 1: think they'll go hand to him? They do? I think 509 00:23:54,800 --> 00:23:57,200 Speaker 1: you do? Think so? Do they always? They sometimes not? 510 00:23:57,800 --> 00:24:00,040 Speaker 1: Sometimes they don't. I think that Romney will win I 511 00:24:00,280 --> 00:24:02,800 Speaker 1: and Perry woman suck if Romney wins which which he 512 00:24:02,840 --> 00:24:06,440 Speaker 1: could he could. He's got great strength there. He wins that, 513 00:24:06,560 --> 00:24:17,080 Speaker 1: he wins New Hampshire. He's on his way. This is 514 00:24:17,080 --> 00:24:20,560 Speaker 1: Alec Baldwin and you're listening to here's the thing. More 515 00:24:20,680 --> 00:24:33,280 Speaker 1: from my conversation with Ed Rollins in a minute. This 516 00:24:33,440 --> 00:24:36,680 Speaker 1: is Alec Baldwin. You're listening to. Here's the thing I'm 517 00:24:36,760 --> 00:24:41,680 Speaker 1: talking with Ed Rollins. Obviously, in the in the Whitman campaign, 518 00:24:41,720 --> 00:24:43,600 Speaker 1: there was the voter suppression issue that you had to 519 00:24:43,680 --> 00:24:45,680 Speaker 1: deal with, And I'm wondering what did you learn from 520 00:24:45,680 --> 00:24:48,480 Speaker 1: that experience and how do you think that's played out now? 521 00:24:48,720 --> 00:24:50,239 Speaker 1: Meaning do you think that's still an issue when race 522 00:24:50,320 --> 00:24:53,480 Speaker 1: is now well walking around? Money is still an issue. 523 00:24:53,560 --> 00:24:55,159 Speaker 1: My mistake there was not that I had done to 524 00:24:55,200 --> 00:24:57,560 Speaker 1: describe that mistake. What had happened is with the public 525 00:24:57,600 --> 00:25:00,280 Speaker 1: finance race. Florida did not have good relations. Ships was 526 00:25:00,320 --> 00:25:02,600 Speaker 1: the Floria was running against Whitman. He was that he 527 00:25:02,680 --> 00:25:05,120 Speaker 1: was the Democratic coming to governor. He had run out 528 00:25:05,119 --> 00:25:06,719 Speaker 1: of money. What happened to him? He was a good 529 00:25:06,800 --> 00:25:09,720 Speaker 1: governor from a Democrat perspective, but he wasn't very charismatic. 530 00:25:10,040 --> 00:25:12,840 Speaker 1: So what happened is we had money to go into 531 00:25:12,880 --> 00:25:15,720 Speaker 1: the community and basically have walking around money. And the 532 00:25:15,840 --> 00:25:19,160 Speaker 1: differences when Democrats go out and basically say I want 533 00:25:19,200 --> 00:25:21,679 Speaker 1: you to turn out your churches, your bus drivers, all 534 00:25:21,680 --> 00:25:23,560 Speaker 1: the rest of it. We go out and say here's 535 00:25:23,560 --> 00:25:25,840 Speaker 1: the pay day you would normally get just you know, 536 00:25:26,240 --> 00:25:28,720 Speaker 1: don't turn your vote out. Uh. How did you feel 537 00:25:28,760 --> 00:25:31,160 Speaker 1: about the paying people not to vote? I didn't feel 538 00:25:31,160 --> 00:25:32,920 Speaker 1: I was paying people not to vote. I felt I 539 00:25:33,040 --> 00:25:37,000 Speaker 1: was paying people who always get a check on election day, uh, 540 00:25:37,080 --> 00:25:39,640 Speaker 1: not to do their job. If people wanted to go vote, 541 00:25:39,640 --> 00:25:42,119 Speaker 1: they could go vote. I'm always for people voting. You know, 542 00:25:42,160 --> 00:25:44,399 Speaker 1: I've spent my life and I believe in democracy and 543 00:25:44,480 --> 00:25:46,320 Speaker 1: I think, you know, the bottom line is just whoever 544 00:25:46,440 --> 00:25:49,159 Speaker 1: votes votes. But in this particular case that there was 545 00:25:49,200 --> 00:25:51,480 Speaker 1: an opportunity. It was very close election. I was doing 546 00:25:51,520 --> 00:25:53,840 Speaker 1: a press briefing two weeks after, nothing to do with 547 00:25:53,920 --> 00:25:56,720 Speaker 1: the Whitman race. A reporter asked me, how did she 548 00:25:56,760 --> 00:25:59,080 Speaker 1: get the vote? And how how do we have to 549 00:25:59,160 --> 00:26:00,960 Speaker 1: get out the vote? Uh? And I explained to it. 550 00:26:01,320 --> 00:26:04,760 Speaker 1: It became a big story because we because it did 551 00:26:04,840 --> 00:26:06,960 Speaker 1: look like you were paying people and we were not. 552 00:26:07,400 --> 00:26:10,120 Speaker 1: But Carvel and Begala, those guys in the in the clowns, 553 00:26:10,640 --> 00:26:14,480 Speaker 1: they pounced on it, and they basically hammered me. It's 554 00:26:14,480 --> 00:26:16,240 Speaker 1: a it's a tough game. And at the end of 555 00:26:16,320 --> 00:26:18,440 Speaker 1: the day, you know, my own party hammered me a 556 00:26:18,480 --> 00:26:20,119 Speaker 1: little bit. I had gone off and done paro and 557 00:26:20,520 --> 00:26:22,360 Speaker 1: so I was sort of the trader who came back 558 00:26:22,560 --> 00:26:25,240 Speaker 1: and uh, and I was not close to Bush at 559 00:26:25,280 --> 00:26:27,200 Speaker 1: the end because I had been Jack Kemp's can you 560 00:26:27,240 --> 00:26:29,159 Speaker 1: know a lot of little stuff that came into it. Uh. 561 00:26:29,240 --> 00:26:31,479 Speaker 1: You know, you got women elected. I got women elected. 562 00:26:31,800 --> 00:26:33,440 Speaker 1: I know the game. I know how to make it work. 563 00:26:33,480 --> 00:26:35,399 Speaker 1: And part of the reason I know the game is 564 00:26:35,600 --> 00:26:37,760 Speaker 1: I was trained as a Democrat. I was I started 565 00:26:37,800 --> 00:26:40,639 Speaker 1: in the coalitional politics by Jess underw you know, and 566 00:26:40,880 --> 00:26:43,920 Speaker 1: and uh and Jess under who ran all the campaigns 567 00:26:43,920 --> 00:26:46,440 Speaker 1: in California, and Kennedy. It was Kennedy's guy in California 568 00:26:47,040 --> 00:26:49,560 Speaker 1: told me there were three things that matter, and he said, 569 00:26:49,680 --> 00:26:52,080 Speaker 1: it sounds very simple, but it's not very simple. You 570 00:26:52,200 --> 00:26:54,400 Speaker 1: find your voter, you communicate with your voter, you get 571 00:26:54,440 --> 00:26:56,920 Speaker 1: into the polls. If you're doing anything else besides those 572 00:26:56,960 --> 00:26:59,080 Speaker 1: three things, you're wasting your time. When I watch you 573 00:26:59,200 --> 00:27:00,840 Speaker 1: on TV, and you're I mean, you seem like a 574 00:27:00,960 --> 00:27:03,920 Speaker 1: tough guy, and you seem like a very, very capable guy. 575 00:27:04,400 --> 00:27:06,520 Speaker 1: At the same time, you don't seem to me like 576 00:27:06,640 --> 00:27:09,960 Speaker 1: you're in some line with at water and row. I'm not. 577 00:27:10,080 --> 00:27:11,800 Speaker 1: Why do I feel that way about it? I'm not. 578 00:27:12,400 --> 00:27:15,200 Speaker 1: You know, I have a different history. I call it 579 00:27:15,320 --> 00:27:17,440 Speaker 1: the way I see it. My mouth has got me 580 00:27:17,480 --> 00:27:19,080 Speaker 1: in a lot of trouble over the years because I 581 00:27:19,160 --> 00:27:21,640 Speaker 1: have been too honest. And you asked me a question, 582 00:27:21,680 --> 00:27:23,480 Speaker 1: I'm gonna give you the best answer I can. You know, 583 00:27:24,000 --> 00:27:26,400 Speaker 1: But at the end of the day, I'm an American. 584 00:27:26,480 --> 00:27:27,879 Speaker 1: You know, I get up every day. I don't think 585 00:27:27,880 --> 00:27:30,000 Speaker 1: of myself as a Republican. That's not the first thing. 586 00:27:30,040 --> 00:27:32,119 Speaker 1: I think of myself as a father, And then the 587 00:27:32,160 --> 00:27:34,399 Speaker 1: second thing, I think of myself as a husband. And 588 00:27:34,440 --> 00:27:37,399 Speaker 1: no matter how diametrically opposed you and I, maybe if 589 00:27:37,440 --> 00:27:39,560 Speaker 1: we really sat here for hours, we would enjoy each 590 00:27:39,600 --> 00:27:41,920 Speaker 1: other's company, and at the end of the day, we'd 591 00:27:41,960 --> 00:27:44,080 Speaker 1: get up and we'd go try and make America better place. 592 00:27:44,480 --> 00:27:46,600 Speaker 1: That's how I got into politics. Those are the kinds 593 00:27:46,640 --> 00:27:49,200 Speaker 1: of people I was Asham. At the end of the day, 594 00:27:49,240 --> 00:27:50,800 Speaker 1: you know, I was a fighter. I was. I was 595 00:27:51,040 --> 00:27:52,800 Speaker 1: been a fighter all my life. I've never been a hater. 596 00:27:53,160 --> 00:27:58,000 Speaker 1: I'm not a hater. You and I will probably both 597 00:27:58,080 --> 00:28:00,720 Speaker 1: go to the grave disagreeing about Ronald Ray, which is okay, 598 00:28:01,000 --> 00:28:02,600 Speaker 1: but I wanted to say thank you so much. I 599 00:28:02,960 --> 00:28:06,720 Speaker 1: get to heaven, he'll be did agree. Oh God, I 600 00:28:06,800 --> 00:28:11,040 Speaker 1: hope I have a private cabin. Then this is Alec 601 00:28:11,119 --> 00:28:13,400 Speaker 1: Baldwin and you're listening to here's the thing.