1 00:00:08,480 --> 00:00:11,440 Speaker 1: Hey, Orgey, did you ever think about the odds of 2 00:00:11,600 --> 00:00:18,960 Speaker 1: you existing? My existence is pretty odd. So well, I'm 3 00:00:19,000 --> 00:00:21,600 Speaker 1: sure that you exist right now, but you know, go 4 00:00:21,680 --> 00:00:24,799 Speaker 1: back a hundred years. What are the chances that everything 5 00:00:24,840 --> 00:00:28,480 Speaker 1: would align to make or hey, oh man, I I 6 00:00:28,720 --> 00:00:33,040 Speaker 1: think I'm pretty special, so probably pretty low. Exactly, so 7 00:00:33,080 --> 00:00:35,879 Speaker 1: many things had to happen in just the right way 8 00:00:36,000 --> 00:00:39,879 Speaker 1: for you to be here, right It seems astronomical that 9 00:00:39,960 --> 00:00:42,800 Speaker 1: I would be here, Yes, and yet you are here. 10 00:00:42,880 --> 00:00:47,600 Speaker 1: So sometimes unlikely things actually do happen. Maybe a hundred 11 00:00:47,680 --> 00:00:50,400 Speaker 1: years from now, you'll be listening to David and Juan 12 00:00:50,560 --> 00:01:09,480 Speaker 1: explain the universe instead. I am more Hammond cartoonists and 13 00:01:09,480 --> 00:01:12,840 Speaker 1: the creator of PhD comics. Hi, I'm Daniel. I'm a 14 00:01:12,880 --> 00:01:16,920 Speaker 1: particle physicist, and I like to think about really unlikely events. 15 00:01:16,920 --> 00:01:20,760 Speaker 1: Oh yeah, like us getting a podcast. Yeah, or two 16 00:01:20,760 --> 00:01:24,240 Speaker 1: protons colliding to make a Higgs boson, which happens like 17 00:01:24,360 --> 00:01:27,680 Speaker 1: one in a trillion collisions. But those are important, right, 18 00:01:27,840 --> 00:01:30,560 Speaker 1: Like when it happens, it's a pretty big deal. Exactly 19 00:01:30,600 --> 00:01:33,679 Speaker 1: when it happens, it's exciting. It teaches us something about 20 00:01:33,720 --> 00:01:36,880 Speaker 1: the universe, and also thinking about these rare things, thinking 21 00:01:36,920 --> 00:01:40,959 Speaker 1: about the extremely unlikely events tells us something about like 22 00:01:41,000 --> 00:01:44,440 Speaker 1: the nature of the universe, what's possible and what's actually 23 00:01:44,840 --> 00:01:47,800 Speaker 1: zero percent possible? Does it also sort of teach a 24 00:01:47,840 --> 00:01:51,880 Speaker 1: little bit about perseverance, like if you try enough times, 25 00:01:52,080 --> 00:01:54,720 Speaker 1: you should eventually be able to do anything. Yeah, And 26 00:01:54,760 --> 00:01:57,880 Speaker 1: it helps to persevere because our collider operates at like 27 00:01:58,000 --> 00:02:00,200 Speaker 1: millions of times a second, so you don't have to 28 00:02:00,240 --> 00:02:03,240 Speaker 1: wait that long to get a trillion tries. Are you 29 00:02:03,240 --> 00:02:07,280 Speaker 1: saying that your collider misses several million times a second? No, 30 00:02:07,440 --> 00:02:10,400 Speaker 1: it makes collisions every time. It's just those collisions are 31 00:02:10,480 --> 00:02:14,880 Speaker 1: usually boring. Not much exciting happens on your average collision 32 00:02:14,919 --> 00:02:17,600 Speaker 1: at the LHC. I see, so it basically it has 33 00:02:17,639 --> 00:02:20,000 Speaker 1: like a zero point zero zero zero zero zero zero 34 00:02:20,280 --> 00:02:25,040 Speaker 1: one RBI. Yeah, exactly. We actually throw away most of 35 00:02:25,080 --> 00:02:27,560 Speaker 1: the data from the large age on collider because it's boring. 36 00:02:28,080 --> 00:02:31,440 Speaker 1: But anyways, welcome to our Unlikely podcast. Daniel and Jorge 37 00:02:31,520 --> 00:02:34,520 Speaker 1: Explain the Universe, a collection of I Heart Radio in 38 00:02:34,520 --> 00:02:36,919 Speaker 1: which we focus on that tiny little bit of the 39 00:02:37,000 --> 00:02:41,400 Speaker 1: universe that's amazing, that's exciting, that's wondrous, that's confusing. We 40 00:02:41,440 --> 00:02:43,000 Speaker 1: talk about all the things that are out there in 41 00:02:43,040 --> 00:02:45,680 Speaker 1: the universe that you want to fit into your brain. 42 00:02:46,000 --> 00:02:48,800 Speaker 1: You'd like to understand how neutron stars work, you want 43 00:02:48,840 --> 00:02:51,200 Speaker 1: to know how the galaxy formed. You want to understand 44 00:02:51,240 --> 00:02:55,440 Speaker 1: it from particles all the way up to superclusters of galaxies. 45 00:02:55,639 --> 00:02:57,639 Speaker 1: So you've come to the right place because we take 46 00:02:57,680 --> 00:03:00,639 Speaker 1: the entire universe and explain all of it to you. 47 00:03:00,760 --> 00:03:03,680 Speaker 1: Because it is a pretty huge universe. I mean, it's fast, 48 00:03:03,800 --> 00:03:06,240 Speaker 1: and it's full of stuff in it and energy, and 49 00:03:06,320 --> 00:03:09,960 Speaker 1: it seems like there are amazing things happening and existing 50 00:03:10,160 --> 00:03:13,080 Speaker 1: all over the place, and makes you wonder how likely 51 00:03:13,160 --> 00:03:16,400 Speaker 1: it is for them to be there or not. Yeah, exactly, 52 00:03:16,440 --> 00:03:18,720 Speaker 1: And we can't go to all those places, and we 53 00:03:18,760 --> 00:03:22,200 Speaker 1: can't even see all of those places, so sometimes we're 54 00:03:22,240 --> 00:03:25,960 Speaker 1: limited to like mental explorations, to take journeys in our 55 00:03:25,960 --> 00:03:28,480 Speaker 1: mind and wonder, like, is it possible that somewhere out 56 00:03:28,480 --> 00:03:31,200 Speaker 1: there there's another planet with similar kinds of people on it, 57 00:03:31,280 --> 00:03:34,800 Speaker 1: listening to a even funnier podcast, and wonder what their 58 00:03:34,880 --> 00:03:37,400 Speaker 1: names are? But yeah, it's sort of like taking a 59 00:03:37,400 --> 00:03:40,160 Speaker 1: mental vacation, except you actually do it for work. It's 60 00:03:40,160 --> 00:03:43,360 Speaker 1: like you take a mental work trip. Yeah, it's called 61 00:03:43,360 --> 00:03:47,960 Speaker 1: the thought experiment. How do you expense that in your accounting? Unfortunately, 62 00:03:47,960 --> 00:03:50,680 Speaker 1: they're mostly free, right, there's no plane tickets, there's no 63 00:03:50,800 --> 00:03:53,120 Speaker 1: risk of catching a virus. It's a great way to 64 00:03:53,200 --> 00:03:55,320 Speaker 1: do some work. Can you fly first class? Though? Is 65 00:03:55,320 --> 00:03:57,720 Speaker 1: that allowed in your government grant? They have to say 66 00:03:57,720 --> 00:04:00,360 Speaker 1: it uncomfortably while you have your thought experiments. Oh, that's 67 00:04:00,400 --> 00:04:02,440 Speaker 1: the best part is that it looks exactly like you're 68 00:04:02,440 --> 00:04:04,720 Speaker 1: taking a nap. So if I remember caught by my 69 00:04:04,800 --> 00:04:07,200 Speaker 1: department chair napping on my couch, I'll just say no, No, 70 00:04:07,280 --> 00:04:10,080 Speaker 1: I was doing thought experiments. I was working. I was 71 00:04:10,160 --> 00:04:16,400 Speaker 1: having physics dreams. I guess that counts rights work for you. No, No, 72 00:04:16,520 --> 00:04:18,559 Speaker 1: it's a real privilege to get to like think about 73 00:04:18,600 --> 00:04:21,880 Speaker 1: the nature of the universe for your job. So I 74 00:04:21,960 --> 00:04:24,880 Speaker 1: definitely religion enjoy that. Well, it is a crazy universe, 75 00:04:24,880 --> 00:04:28,279 Speaker 1: which I guess requires some crazy thinking to understand it, 76 00:04:28,360 --> 00:04:32,800 Speaker 1: explore it, and come up with interesting explanations for it. Absolutely, 77 00:04:32,920 --> 00:04:35,240 Speaker 1: we like to do these crazy thought experiments. And you know, 78 00:04:35,279 --> 00:04:37,839 Speaker 1: I was thinking about the kinds of things we think 79 00:04:37,880 --> 00:04:41,120 Speaker 1: about happening in the universe, crazy shock waves and all 80 00:04:41,160 --> 00:04:43,600 Speaker 1: sorts of bizarre stuff. And I got an email from 81 00:04:43,600 --> 00:04:47,160 Speaker 1: a listener just yesterday who asked me this funny related question. 82 00:04:47,440 --> 00:04:50,960 Speaker 1: This is Dev Candlewall, and he says, what do you 83 00:04:51,000 --> 00:04:54,840 Speaker 1: think is the scariest thought in the universe? So I 84 00:04:54,839 --> 00:04:58,000 Speaker 1: was wondering what you thought about that whorehead the scariest 85 00:04:58,360 --> 00:05:02,480 Speaker 1: thought in the universe? Ah, like the one that would 86 00:05:02,480 --> 00:05:05,640 Speaker 1: shock people the most. Yeah, exactly what did you reply? 87 00:05:06,800 --> 00:05:09,040 Speaker 1: I said, I would ask Korge next time we record 88 00:05:09,040 --> 00:05:12,640 Speaker 1: a podcast. Let's see, let's see that the universe will 89 00:05:12,720 --> 00:05:16,680 Speaker 1: run out of bananas, a zero banana universe. I don't 90 00:05:16,680 --> 00:05:19,440 Speaker 1: think that's possible quantum mechanically. Well, there you have it. 91 00:05:19,520 --> 00:05:21,880 Speaker 1: I can sleep easier at night, or I can take 92 00:05:22,000 --> 00:05:24,640 Speaker 1: naps much more comfortably now, all right, So there you go, Dev, 93 00:05:24,720 --> 00:05:27,960 Speaker 1: you don't have to worry about scary universes. Quantum mechanics 94 00:05:27,960 --> 00:05:30,840 Speaker 1: protects the number of bananas in the universe. So we 95 00:05:30,960 --> 00:05:33,560 Speaker 1: got another interesting question from a listener, this time about 96 00:05:33,600 --> 00:05:37,560 Speaker 1: a pretty crazy thought experiment. Yeah, that's right. We're always 97 00:05:37,600 --> 00:05:41,320 Speaker 1: getting questions from listeners who are thinking themselves about crazy 98 00:05:41,360 --> 00:05:43,520 Speaker 1: stuff in the universe and wanted to hear us chat 99 00:05:43,560 --> 00:05:46,360 Speaker 1: about it. So here's a really fun question we got 100 00:05:46,440 --> 00:05:50,919 Speaker 1: from Roselle Santos hiding and I have a question about 101 00:05:51,000 --> 00:05:54,799 Speaker 1: Boltzmann brains. I read that there are hypothetical self aware 102 00:05:54,839 --> 00:05:58,440 Speaker 1: disembodied brings floating around in the universe. But why would 103 00:05:58,480 --> 00:06:02,680 Speaker 1: serious physicists hype the size about disembodied breeds floating around 104 00:06:02,760 --> 00:06:06,120 Speaker 1: in the universe. It sounds both shocking and absurd to 105 00:06:06,240 --> 00:06:08,600 Speaker 1: me that I'm excited to know more about it. I 106 00:06:08,720 --> 00:06:14,240 Speaker 1: love the pod. Thank you. Wow, that was a pretty 107 00:06:14,360 --> 00:06:18,560 Speaker 1: interesting question. There so much the pokemon a physicists, I know. 108 00:06:18,600 --> 00:06:21,440 Speaker 1: I love that she assumes that there are serious physicists 109 00:06:21,480 --> 00:06:26,360 Speaker 1: out there. Yeah, there's a difference. Like there's two kinds, right, 110 00:06:26,400 --> 00:06:29,159 Speaker 1: There's the clowney kind, and then there's the serious kind. 111 00:06:29,400 --> 00:06:31,359 Speaker 1: You know, the kind of words both ties and the 112 00:06:31,440 --> 00:06:34,280 Speaker 1: kinds of were both ties with colors in it, right, 113 00:06:34,360 --> 00:06:36,080 Speaker 1: the kind of do actual work and the kind of 114 00:06:36,120 --> 00:06:40,960 Speaker 1: just do podcast with cartoonists. It's now, those are the 115 00:06:41,120 --> 00:06:44,599 Speaker 1: seriously cool physicists, right. That's why I'm wearing my clown 116 00:06:44,640 --> 00:06:47,160 Speaker 1: shoes over here. But thank you roself for sending in 117 00:06:47,200 --> 00:06:49,520 Speaker 1: this question, and thank you to all our listeners who 118 00:06:49,560 --> 00:06:53,600 Speaker 1: send those questions. So it's cool to get ideas from you. Absolutely, 119 00:06:53,680 --> 00:06:57,320 Speaker 1: and this sounds like a ridiculous and absurd idea, but 120 00:06:57,360 --> 00:07:01,039 Speaker 1: it's actually a very useful and powerful tool in cosmology. 121 00:07:01,160 --> 00:07:05,720 Speaker 1: Thinking about this question about brains forming in space, I 122 00:07:05,800 --> 00:07:09,600 Speaker 1: see it's a serious question. It's a serious question about 123 00:07:09,600 --> 00:07:13,360 Speaker 1: a silly idea. That's my favorite kind. So to be 124 00:07:13,440 --> 00:07:20,680 Speaker 1: on the program, we'll be asking the question can a 125 00:07:20,760 --> 00:07:27,720 Speaker 1: brain spontaneously form out in space? What? What does this 126 00:07:27,840 --> 00:07:31,040 Speaker 1: even mean? Like a brain just suddenly appears completely out 127 00:07:31,040 --> 00:07:33,280 Speaker 1: of the blue. Well, you can't just like violate the 128 00:07:33,360 --> 00:07:35,680 Speaker 1: laws of physics and just like appear out of nothing. 129 00:07:36,040 --> 00:07:38,280 Speaker 1: You have to find a way in the laws of 130 00:07:38,320 --> 00:07:41,680 Speaker 1: physics for a brain to like self assemble out of 131 00:07:41,680 --> 00:07:45,280 Speaker 1: the stuff that already exists, or for particles to fluctuate 132 00:07:45,280 --> 00:07:47,440 Speaker 1: out of the vacuum and come together into a brain. 133 00:07:47,640 --> 00:07:50,280 Speaker 1: I agree with Rosel, this sounds both shocking and absurd 134 00:07:50,360 --> 00:07:52,880 Speaker 1: to me. How can you be serious about this? You 135 00:07:52,920 --> 00:07:55,800 Speaker 1: can quantify it, right, you can lay down exactly the 136 00:07:55,800 --> 00:07:58,440 Speaker 1: probability for this to happen or not happen. All right, 137 00:07:58,480 --> 00:08:01,000 Speaker 1: So the idea is that as the kind it's called 138 00:08:01,000 --> 00:08:03,880 Speaker 1: the Boltzman brain. Yeah, it's the Boltsman brain. Is named 139 00:08:03,880 --> 00:08:07,840 Speaker 1: after Ludwig Boltzman. Who first thought about weird probabilities, because 140 00:08:07,840 --> 00:08:10,560 Speaker 1: he was one of the pioneers of statistical mechanics, which 141 00:08:10,760 --> 00:08:14,000 Speaker 1: thought about entropy in terms of like microscopic little particles. 142 00:08:14,320 --> 00:08:16,480 Speaker 1: So it's not his brain. It's like he came up 143 00:08:16,520 --> 00:08:20,440 Speaker 1: with this idea of hypothetical brain. He actually didn't come 144 00:08:20,480 --> 00:08:24,160 Speaker 1: up with this specific idea of Folks later realized that 145 00:08:24,200 --> 00:08:26,840 Speaker 1: this is an outcome of some of his arguments. But 146 00:08:26,920 --> 00:08:29,160 Speaker 1: yet all goes back to the question of, like, what 147 00:08:29,320 --> 00:08:31,960 Speaker 1: universe do we live in? Do we understand it is 148 00:08:32,000 --> 00:08:34,400 Speaker 1: the universe that we're looking at, one that we expect 149 00:08:34,440 --> 00:08:37,080 Speaker 1: to see, how unlikely is it? And if the universe 150 00:08:37,160 --> 00:08:39,800 Speaker 1: is unlikely, does that mean that we're totally wrong about 151 00:08:39,840 --> 00:08:43,320 Speaker 1: what we're actually looking at. Wow, some pretty big ideas 152 00:08:43,360 --> 00:08:47,720 Speaker 1: there to be fit into a little brain. So I 153 00:08:47,720 --> 00:08:50,280 Speaker 1: guess the basic concept is that you know, the universe 154 00:08:50,360 --> 00:08:52,880 Speaker 1: is crazy. There are things popping into existence all the 155 00:08:52,920 --> 00:08:55,840 Speaker 1: time and forming and bumping into each other, and so 156 00:08:55,960 --> 00:08:59,000 Speaker 1: what are the chances that suddenly things would just form 157 00:08:59,080 --> 00:09:01,600 Speaker 1: a brain out and space? Right? That's right, like for 158 00:09:01,640 --> 00:09:04,560 Speaker 1: a long time, for momentarily or does it matter, Yeah, 159 00:09:04,559 --> 00:09:06,680 Speaker 1: it would be momentarily. And then the question of you know. 160 00:09:06,760 --> 00:09:09,560 Speaker 1: How long it survived depends on you know it. Does 161 00:09:09,600 --> 00:09:12,240 Speaker 1: it also fluctuate in new existence with the body around 162 00:09:12,280 --> 00:09:14,240 Speaker 1: it and with a planet around it? Or is it 163 00:09:14,320 --> 00:09:17,360 Speaker 1: just like literally a brain out in space, which, as 164 00:09:17,360 --> 00:09:20,760 Speaker 1: you suspect, wouldn't last very long. He would turn into 165 00:09:20,760 --> 00:09:24,120 Speaker 1: brainsical pretty quickly there. Unless it forms in the middle 166 00:09:24,120 --> 00:09:27,480 Speaker 1: of a sun. That would be tragic, roasted toasted brain. 167 00:09:27,520 --> 00:09:30,080 Speaker 1: Maybe that's the scariest thought in the universe. Oh man, 168 00:09:30,080 --> 00:09:33,040 Speaker 1: that your brain, like who exists for a second in 169 00:09:33,040 --> 00:09:38,040 Speaker 1: the sun before you do? And that start it's pretty bright. Actually, 170 00:09:38,360 --> 00:09:41,680 Speaker 1: well it's a pretty crazy question, pretty serious but crazy question. 171 00:09:41,880 --> 00:09:44,120 Speaker 1: And we were wondering, as usual, how many people out 172 00:09:44,120 --> 00:09:47,680 Speaker 1: there had heard of this idea, this hypothetical brain, or 173 00:09:47,760 --> 00:09:50,640 Speaker 1: even think that it is likely. So, as usual, Daniel 174 00:09:50,679 --> 00:09:53,680 Speaker 1: went out there into the internet to ask people what 175 00:09:53,800 --> 00:09:58,280 Speaker 1: are the chances that a brain would spontaneously form in space? 176 00:09:59,080 --> 00:10:02,320 Speaker 1: And so, as usual will I'm deeply, deeply grateful to 177 00:10:02,400 --> 00:10:06,000 Speaker 1: those of you who volunteered to answer random questions and 178 00:10:06,120 --> 00:10:10,000 Speaker 1: lend your unprepared thoughts to the podcast. If you'd like 179 00:10:10,000 --> 00:10:12,599 Speaker 1: to volunteer in the future, please I encourage you. You 180 00:10:12,640 --> 00:10:15,320 Speaker 1: get to hear your own voice on the podcast, and 181 00:10:15,520 --> 00:10:18,600 Speaker 1: trust me, it's fun. So right to me two questions 182 00:10:18,640 --> 00:10:21,679 Speaker 1: at Daniel and Jorge dot com. There's a whole protocol, right, 183 00:10:21,679 --> 00:10:24,000 Speaker 1: like you ask people to not read the question, but 184 00:10:24,120 --> 00:10:26,360 Speaker 1: start recording, and then you ask them to read the 185 00:10:26,440 --> 00:10:28,960 Speaker 1: question right, and then they have to answer yeah, exactly, 186 00:10:29,000 --> 00:10:31,800 Speaker 1: no googling. I'm trying to capture the same energy and 187 00:10:31,840 --> 00:10:33,760 Speaker 1: spirit that we had when I was just walking around 188 00:10:33,800 --> 00:10:36,160 Speaker 1: campus at you see ir run before the world sort 189 00:10:36,160 --> 00:10:38,199 Speaker 1: of shut down and those folks didn't get like a 190 00:10:38,280 --> 00:10:40,199 Speaker 1: chance to look on their phones to go think about 191 00:10:40,240 --> 00:10:42,640 Speaker 1: it or ask their favorite physicists. Because the goal here 192 00:10:42,720 --> 00:10:44,319 Speaker 1: is just to get a sense for like, hey, what 193 00:10:44,360 --> 00:10:47,400 Speaker 1: do people know? What do people understand already? Because you know, 194 00:10:47,440 --> 00:10:49,720 Speaker 1: we're trying to teach this stuff to you guys out there, 195 00:10:49,760 --> 00:10:51,880 Speaker 1: and we want to get a sense for what level 196 00:10:51,920 --> 00:10:53,880 Speaker 1: to pitch it at the people run away from you. 197 00:10:53,920 --> 00:10:59,320 Speaker 1: Also on internet, do they call campus police? Also, they 198 00:10:59,360 --> 00:11:01,440 Speaker 1: don't give me as many weird looks on the internet 199 00:11:01,440 --> 00:11:03,000 Speaker 1: as they did in real life, which is kind of 200 00:11:03,000 --> 00:11:07,720 Speaker 1: surprising that you know, of they're probably rolling their eyes, 201 00:11:08,000 --> 00:11:10,200 Speaker 1: you never know. Well, I hope they have fun with it. 202 00:11:10,240 --> 00:11:12,040 Speaker 1: At least. But anyways, think about it for a second. 203 00:11:12,080 --> 00:11:15,240 Speaker 1: Do you think a brain could spontaneously form out in space? 204 00:11:15,840 --> 00:11:19,439 Speaker 1: Here's what people have to say. That's a really interesting question. 205 00:11:19,520 --> 00:11:21,760 Speaker 1: I think I've heard of it before. It's maybe the 206 00:11:21,800 --> 00:11:28,400 Speaker 1: Boltzmann brain. My understanding is that if the universe is infinite, 207 00:11:28,440 --> 00:11:33,440 Speaker 1: then such a brain has to form somewhere at some time. 208 00:11:33,760 --> 00:11:37,360 Speaker 1: But I still find that really hard to believe. I 209 00:11:37,400 --> 00:11:42,520 Speaker 1: don't know how many random atsoms if there's like an 210 00:11:42,520 --> 00:11:47,160 Speaker 1: infinite supply, then well, it also depends on what type 211 00:11:47,200 --> 00:11:52,040 Speaker 1: of brain. So I have had something um less complex, 212 00:11:52,120 --> 00:11:56,880 Speaker 1: like the brain of an aunt. I'm guessing maybe one 213 00:11:56,920 --> 00:11:59,960 Speaker 1: in ten to the five, but it was more sophisticated. 214 00:12:00,000 --> 00:12:04,400 Speaker 1: It like a human rain. Maybe you wanted into the fifty. Um. 215 00:12:04,559 --> 00:12:08,880 Speaker 1: I don't have a real basis for these gisses, so 216 00:12:09,120 --> 00:12:13,199 Speaker 1: I think that the chances of a brain spontaneously forming 217 00:12:13,280 --> 00:12:17,600 Speaker 1: from random atoms is not that low. I could totally 218 00:12:17,640 --> 00:12:22,280 Speaker 1: see it happening because atoms are the building blocks for matter. 219 00:12:22,880 --> 00:12:26,960 Speaker 1: So um, if it didn't happen already, I could definitely 220 00:12:27,000 --> 00:12:33,400 Speaker 1: see it happening in the future. Oh my god. Uh well, 221 00:12:33,600 --> 00:12:39,640 Speaker 1: I would never say that absolutely, there's no chance for 222 00:12:39,800 --> 00:12:45,000 Speaker 1: that to happen. But even if it would happen, where 223 00:12:45,080 --> 00:12:52,520 Speaker 1: would this form and how long would last? Um? But 224 00:12:53,320 --> 00:13:01,319 Speaker 1: it's interesting. Chances are I don't think it matters, uh 225 00:13:01,840 --> 00:13:06,280 Speaker 1: to calculate the chances, but for sure there are some chances. 226 00:13:07,160 --> 00:13:09,280 Speaker 1: I finally got a question I know the answer to. 227 00:13:09,960 --> 00:13:12,840 Speaker 1: I just finished reading Brian Green's Until the End of Time, 228 00:13:13,240 --> 00:13:16,960 Speaker 1: and I know that a Boltzman brain could form within 229 00:13:17,160 --> 00:13:22,199 Speaker 1: ten to the ten to something years, which is at 230 00:13:22,280 --> 00:13:26,480 Speaker 1: least less than the amount of time left in the universe. 231 00:13:27,120 --> 00:13:30,120 Speaker 1: So people are pretty skeptical. Well, I was surprised a 232 00:13:30,160 --> 00:13:32,440 Speaker 1: lot of people knew what you were talking about. They're like, oh, yeah, 233 00:13:32,440 --> 00:13:36,360 Speaker 1: the Boltzman brain. Of course, who doesn't know about the 234 00:13:36,360 --> 00:13:39,920 Speaker 1: Boltzman brain. Well, we got smart, well educated listeners, and 235 00:13:39,960 --> 00:13:42,200 Speaker 1: you know, Boltzman brain is a thing that's been sort 236 00:13:42,200 --> 00:13:45,559 Speaker 1: of bouncing around for quite a few decades. And people 237 00:13:45,559 --> 00:13:48,000 Speaker 1: seem pretty open to the idea, right, Like they didn't 238 00:13:48,000 --> 00:13:50,400 Speaker 1: think like, no way, Yeah, they're more open to it 239 00:13:50,440 --> 00:13:52,120 Speaker 1: than you or when you heard about it a minute ago. 240 00:13:54,000 --> 00:13:57,440 Speaker 1: I am maybe odd about these odds. All right, So 241 00:13:57,480 --> 00:14:00,280 Speaker 1: it's a pretty interesting idea. So tell us an, you know, 242 00:14:00,440 --> 00:14:03,040 Speaker 1: what are the chances that a brain would spontaneously appear, 243 00:14:03,880 --> 00:14:06,520 Speaker 1: and how would it happen? Yeah, well, the odds are 244 00:14:07,000 --> 00:14:12,200 Speaker 1: very very very very very very small, but technically not zero. 245 00:14:12,840 --> 00:14:16,560 Speaker 1: You know, there is the possibility for particles in space 246 00:14:16,640 --> 00:14:21,400 Speaker 1: to sort of bump into each other and assemble into atoms, 247 00:14:21,480 --> 00:14:24,480 Speaker 1: and those atoms could assemble into molecules, which could assemble 248 00:14:24,480 --> 00:14:27,920 Speaker 1: into cells, which could assemble into a brain. Like, there's 249 00:14:27,960 --> 00:14:31,800 Speaker 1: nothing in the laws of physics actually preventing that from happening, 250 00:14:31,840 --> 00:14:35,160 Speaker 1: which means the probability is non zero, but of course 251 00:14:35,640 --> 00:14:38,240 Speaker 1: very unlikely. Do you need the atoms to have been 252 00:14:38,320 --> 00:14:40,640 Speaker 1: formed already, Like do you need carbon atoms or are 253 00:14:40,680 --> 00:14:43,240 Speaker 1: you talking about particles at the like the cork level, 254 00:14:43,280 --> 00:14:47,280 Speaker 1: Like corks suddenly become you know, protons and neutrons just 255 00:14:47,360 --> 00:14:49,840 Speaker 1: the right you know, ratio, and then those become carbon 256 00:14:49,920 --> 00:14:54,000 Speaker 1: and potassium and oxygen and and suddenly everything like just 257 00:14:54,040 --> 00:14:56,640 Speaker 1: poofs into existence. Or do you do you mean like assembled, Well, 258 00:14:56,640 --> 00:14:59,400 Speaker 1: I guess you could actually just poof into existence. That 259 00:15:00,040 --> 00:15:02,680 Speaker 1: been less likely, right, all that stuff to just like 260 00:15:02,760 --> 00:15:06,760 Speaker 1: fluctuate out of the vacuum instantaneously. I think it's more 261 00:15:06,840 --> 00:15:10,440 Speaker 1: likely for you to fluctuate the essential components out of 262 00:15:10,440 --> 00:15:12,960 Speaker 1: the vacuum, you know, for a photon to turn into 263 00:15:13,320 --> 00:15:16,000 Speaker 1: a pair of quarks and anti quark, or for photon 264 00:15:16,040 --> 00:15:19,640 Speaker 1: to turn into electron oppositron, and for those particles to 265 00:15:19,720 --> 00:15:24,440 Speaker 1: assemble into atoms and then molecules and then cells. So 266 00:15:24,480 --> 00:15:27,880 Speaker 1: I think that's probably more likely than the actual massive 267 00:15:27,960 --> 00:15:30,760 Speaker 1: quantum fluctuation of a whole brain. But don't you need 268 00:15:30,800 --> 00:15:33,720 Speaker 1: like a supernova sometimes to assemble some of these particles 269 00:15:33,800 --> 00:15:36,560 Speaker 1: or do me like they maybe come into existence with 270 00:15:36,600 --> 00:15:39,080 Speaker 1: that kind of energy. Yeah, well, you can build these 271 00:15:39,120 --> 00:15:42,320 Speaker 1: things out of anything. Typically they are made, you know, 272 00:15:42,440 --> 00:15:45,680 Speaker 1: in the cores of suns or in supernovas or neutron 273 00:15:45,760 --> 00:15:48,040 Speaker 1: star collisions. But that's not the only way you can 274 00:15:48,160 --> 00:15:50,160 Speaker 1: make them, right. We can also make them here on 275 00:15:50,240 --> 00:15:53,360 Speaker 1: Earth in collisions of particles. So yeah, you can make 276 00:15:53,400 --> 00:15:56,040 Speaker 1: them in other ways. There's no law of physics requiring 277 00:15:56,160 --> 00:15:59,119 Speaker 1: you to have a supernova in order to make uranium 278 00:15:59,200 --> 00:16:01,960 Speaker 1: or phosphorus or whatever it is. So like you're saying, 279 00:16:02,000 --> 00:16:03,720 Speaker 1: like it's not just a brain, then it could be 280 00:16:03,760 --> 00:16:06,840 Speaker 1: anything like a cow or a perfect diamond could just 281 00:16:07,200 --> 00:16:10,280 Speaker 1: suddenly poof out of existence, Yeah, exactly, or you know, 282 00:16:10,360 --> 00:16:12,800 Speaker 1: like a banana the size of a school bus or whatever. 283 00:16:13,360 --> 00:16:15,720 Speaker 1: Could a million dollars just suddenly appear in my hands, 284 00:16:15,760 --> 00:16:18,600 Speaker 1: and instead of you know, admitting that I stole it, 285 00:16:18,720 --> 00:16:20,960 Speaker 1: I could just say that it was a quantum fluctuation. 286 00:16:21,600 --> 00:16:26,040 Speaker 1: I'm just you know, hypothetically speaking, it's called the Boltsmann heist, 287 00:16:26,240 --> 00:16:29,480 Speaker 1: the Boltzmann alibi. I think technically speaking, that's well beyond 288 00:16:29,680 --> 00:16:33,400 Speaker 1: reasonable doubt. But it's not impossible. Yes, absolutely you should 289 00:16:33,400 --> 00:16:35,320 Speaker 1: try that defense, and then I'll come visit you in 290 00:16:35,360 --> 00:16:38,360 Speaker 1: prison and bring you some bananas. But what if I 291 00:16:38,400 --> 00:16:43,240 Speaker 1: bring a serious physicist with me to testify. I don't 292 00:16:43,240 --> 00:16:46,720 Speaker 1: know any song, so I can't recommend one for you. 293 00:16:47,960 --> 00:16:50,280 Speaker 1: I only know the podcasting kind, all right, So let's 294 00:16:50,320 --> 00:16:52,600 Speaker 1: put my legal troubles aside here. So that's how it 295 00:16:52,600 --> 00:16:55,000 Speaker 1: would happen. It would happen like you know, particles would 296 00:16:55,040 --> 00:16:58,000 Speaker 1: appear out of the vacuum or get transformed from light 297 00:16:58,120 --> 00:17:01,080 Speaker 1: or something, and then they would has happened to assemble 298 00:17:01,200 --> 00:17:04,080 Speaker 1: into a brain with like thoughts and a personality in 299 00:17:04,119 --> 00:17:06,720 Speaker 1: it already, or like a blank brain with thoughts and 300 00:17:06,840 --> 00:17:11,080 Speaker 1: a personality and memories, right, because your memories are just 301 00:17:11,160 --> 00:17:14,240 Speaker 1: a reflection of the sort of physical state of your brain. 302 00:17:14,800 --> 00:17:18,000 Speaker 1: And so for example, somebody who thinks they are you 303 00:17:18,440 --> 00:17:21,360 Speaker 1: could assemble out there in space. Right, you could make 304 00:17:21,400 --> 00:17:23,720 Speaker 1: a whorehe brain out there which would have thought that 305 00:17:23,760 --> 00:17:26,520 Speaker 1: it lived your whole life. It is that like, maybe 306 00:17:26,800 --> 00:17:29,800 Speaker 1: I am a Boltzmann brain, maybe you are a Boltzman 307 00:17:29,880 --> 00:17:33,040 Speaker 1: brain exactly. And so we use this as a probe 308 00:17:33,080 --> 00:17:37,600 Speaker 1: to like think about the likelihood of various cosmological theories 309 00:17:37,600 --> 00:17:41,760 Speaker 1: of the universe. And one standard is like, does your 310 00:17:41,800 --> 00:17:45,720 Speaker 1: theory predict that there are more Boltzmann brains than actual 311 00:17:45,880 --> 00:17:49,119 Speaker 1: real people out there, you know, thinking and breathing. So 312 00:17:49,160 --> 00:17:50,960 Speaker 1: it sort of is a way for us to think 313 00:17:51,040 --> 00:17:54,560 Speaker 1: about the origins of the universe. And you know what's 314 00:17:54,680 --> 00:17:57,399 Speaker 1: likely and unlikely to have happened. And you know, we 315 00:17:57,400 --> 00:18:00,840 Speaker 1: can actually put a number on this probability, probability to 316 00:18:01,400 --> 00:18:04,919 Speaker 1: have a brain assemble out there in space. Really you 317 00:18:04,960 --> 00:18:08,919 Speaker 1: can quantify this crazy probability. Well, people have quantified it, 318 00:18:08,960 --> 00:18:11,080 Speaker 1: you know, they've gone through the argument and thought about 319 00:18:11,200 --> 00:18:13,600 Speaker 1: how many particles and what are the chances for this 320 00:18:13,640 --> 00:18:15,560 Speaker 1: to happen and that to happen for them to assemble, 321 00:18:16,040 --> 00:18:17,960 Speaker 1: And you know, the point is you get a number 322 00:18:18,000 --> 00:18:20,520 Speaker 1: which is really really small. It says that it should 323 00:18:20,560 --> 00:18:24,919 Speaker 1: happened about once every ten to the ten to the 324 00:18:25,080 --> 00:18:28,520 Speaker 1: fifty years. That means if you wait a number of years, 325 00:18:28,520 --> 00:18:31,679 Speaker 1: which is ten with ten to the fifty zeros in 326 00:18:31,720 --> 00:18:34,280 Speaker 1: front of it, you should get a Boltsman brain. That's insane. 327 00:18:34,320 --> 00:18:37,840 Speaker 1: It's like ten to the zeros to tend to be 328 00:18:38,560 --> 00:18:41,720 Speaker 1: ten with fifty zero's past it. Wow, that is a 329 00:18:41,760 --> 00:18:44,240 Speaker 1: really big number and much older than the age of 330 00:18:44,240 --> 00:18:46,080 Speaker 1: the universe, right, like the age of the universe, it 331 00:18:46,200 --> 00:18:49,640 Speaker 1: just tend to the eight or nine. Yeah, exactly, we're 332 00:18:49,720 --> 00:18:52,639 Speaker 1: fourteen billion years so, like you know, tend to the ten. 333 00:18:52,920 --> 00:18:56,000 Speaker 1: So basically, it's a pretty low probability for one to 334 00:18:56,080 --> 00:18:59,960 Speaker 1: have happened so far in our universe if the universe 335 00:19:00,200 --> 00:19:03,080 Speaker 1: is only fourteen billion years old, if you believe that, 336 00:19:03,160 --> 00:19:05,639 Speaker 1: if that's true, or if the universe is only going 337 00:19:05,680 --> 00:19:07,440 Speaker 1: to be fourteen billion years old, but I who knows, 338 00:19:07,480 --> 00:19:10,679 Speaker 1: maybe it will have a long, crazy life exactly. And 339 00:19:10,680 --> 00:19:13,639 Speaker 1: so the point is that it's very very unlikely. But 340 00:19:13,680 --> 00:19:15,600 Speaker 1: it's sort of like a standard, like your theory the 341 00:19:15,680 --> 00:19:18,800 Speaker 1: universe should not predict something like this happening because that 342 00:19:18,880 --> 00:19:21,600 Speaker 1: seems pretty absurd and unlikely, but I guess the point 343 00:19:21,640 --> 00:19:25,080 Speaker 1: is that the probably is not zero, Like it's possible 344 00:19:25,119 --> 00:19:27,360 Speaker 1: for a brain to appear out of the blue, even 345 00:19:27,400 --> 00:19:30,240 Speaker 1: if the probability is small, Like you can roll a 346 00:19:30,280 --> 00:19:33,320 Speaker 1: pair of snake eyes on a pair of dye. It's unlikely, 347 00:19:33,400 --> 00:19:36,280 Speaker 1: but it does. It could happen on your first roll. Yeah, exactly, 348 00:19:36,640 --> 00:19:40,320 Speaker 1: and in some way, like everything that is happening was 349 00:19:40,480 --> 00:19:45,320 Speaker 1: very unlikely, like the chances of me existing are almost zero. 350 00:19:45,359 --> 00:19:47,800 Speaker 1: In the same way, so many things have to happen 351 00:19:47,960 --> 00:19:50,880 Speaker 1: just right for me to exist, and yet here I am. 352 00:19:51,080 --> 00:19:55,240 Speaker 1: I do exist. So some things, even though they're vastly improbable, 353 00:19:55,440 --> 00:19:58,320 Speaker 1: do actually happen. All right, Well, let's think about why 354 00:19:58,480 --> 00:20:01,560 Speaker 1: we think about this crazy scenario and what it has 355 00:20:01,600 --> 00:20:05,160 Speaker 1: to do with the Big Bang and explaining what happened. 356 00:20:05,560 --> 00:20:21,080 Speaker 1: But first, let's take a quick break. All right, we're 357 00:20:21,080 --> 00:20:25,280 Speaker 1: talking about Boltman's brains and big bangs, about of bees today. 358 00:20:27,320 --> 00:20:34,000 Speaker 1: Boltsman sounds like an ad for I don't know, a 359 00:20:34,119 --> 00:20:37,359 Speaker 1: mattress store by your space brains. Come on down to 360 00:20:37,520 --> 00:20:43,199 Speaker 1: Boltsman's brains and you're bananas. All right, Well, this is 361 00:20:43,280 --> 00:20:45,399 Speaker 1: a crazy scenario. The idea that you know, a brain 362 00:20:45,440 --> 00:20:49,600 Speaker 1: could spontaneously form out in space out of random particles 363 00:20:49,600 --> 00:20:53,200 Speaker 1: popping into existence. They could assemble into something that thinks 364 00:20:53,280 --> 00:20:56,840 Speaker 1: and has the exact same memories as you, and that 365 00:20:56,920 --> 00:20:59,480 Speaker 1: could maybe, for like a second, think that it is you, right, 366 00:20:59,560 --> 00:21:02,040 Speaker 1: because this brain would be alive for you know, a 367 00:21:02,080 --> 00:21:04,960 Speaker 1: little bit of time, right, Yeah, exactly. The brain would 368 00:21:04,960 --> 00:21:08,120 Speaker 1: survive for a little bit of time long enough to think, Wow, look, 369 00:21:08,160 --> 00:21:11,159 Speaker 1: I'm a brain. I think I understand the universe, or 370 00:21:11,320 --> 00:21:13,919 Speaker 1: I'm gonna go get a banana or whatever. And you know, 371 00:21:14,200 --> 00:21:16,520 Speaker 1: if you're living in the moment right now, you don't 372 00:21:16,600 --> 00:21:19,560 Speaker 1: know that you're not a Boltzman brain, you know, then 373 00:21:19,680 --> 00:21:22,840 Speaker 1: and about to disintegrate, you could be right, like everything 374 00:21:22,880 --> 00:21:24,600 Speaker 1: that's happened to you before it could just be an 375 00:21:24,600 --> 00:21:28,480 Speaker 1: implanted memory. Yeah exactly, Nothing that you have fought in 376 00:21:28,480 --> 00:21:31,720 Speaker 1: the past could be real. Wow, all right, Well this 377 00:21:31,800 --> 00:21:35,159 Speaker 1: is super highly unlikely to the tune of one intent 378 00:21:35,240 --> 00:21:37,879 Speaker 1: to the tent to the fifty. But it's not zero 379 00:21:38,320 --> 00:21:41,080 Speaker 1: the probability, which means that if the universe is infinite, 380 00:21:41,480 --> 00:21:43,840 Speaker 1: it's happening all the time now right there are brains 381 00:21:43,840 --> 00:21:47,840 Speaker 1: popping out into existence everywhere. Yeah, exactly. If the universe 382 00:21:48,000 --> 00:21:51,600 Speaker 1: is infinite in extent, right, spatially infinite, it goes on 383 00:21:51,680 --> 00:21:56,080 Speaker 1: forever with an infinite amount of stuff and totally random 384 00:21:56,080 --> 00:22:00,840 Speaker 1: initial conditions, and then everything that is possible is happening, 385 00:22:01,280 --> 00:22:03,720 Speaker 1: even if it's very very unlikely. So that means that 386 00:22:03,880 --> 00:22:06,960 Speaker 1: somewhere out there right now, if the universe is infinite 387 00:22:07,160 --> 00:22:09,760 Speaker 1: and totally random and the initial conditions, there is a 388 00:22:09,800 --> 00:22:12,840 Speaker 1: Boltman brain appearing and thinking that it's me. And so 389 00:22:13,119 --> 00:22:15,919 Speaker 1: this whole wild idea has a lot to do it. 390 00:22:15,920 --> 00:22:19,000 Speaker 1: As you were saying, thinking about probability in the universe 391 00:22:19,040 --> 00:22:22,200 Speaker 1: and what are the chances of things happening, and specifically 392 00:22:22,280 --> 00:22:24,760 Speaker 1: kind of like how you compare that to the Big Bang, 393 00:22:25,080 --> 00:22:28,600 Speaker 1: because the Big Bang is also pretty unlikely. The Big 394 00:22:28,600 --> 00:22:31,960 Speaker 1: Bang is very unlikely exactly. And you know, the current thinking, 395 00:22:31,960 --> 00:22:35,000 Speaker 1: of course, is that the universe started about fourteen billion 396 00:22:35,080 --> 00:22:37,119 Speaker 1: years ago, and we think that because we look at 397 00:22:37,160 --> 00:22:39,520 Speaker 1: the expansion of the universe and we track it back 398 00:22:39,560 --> 00:22:42,040 Speaker 1: and we look at like the oldest things in the 399 00:22:42,160 --> 00:22:44,639 Speaker 1: universe and they seem to be about that age, and 400 00:22:44,680 --> 00:22:47,160 Speaker 1: so there seems to have been this special moment early 401 00:22:47,240 --> 00:22:49,399 Speaker 1: in the universe. But you know, we don't know what 402 00:22:49,560 --> 00:22:52,920 Speaker 1: comes before the Big Bang. We don't know what caused 403 00:22:53,040 --> 00:22:55,280 Speaker 1: the Big Bang. So while our universe seems to have 404 00:22:55,440 --> 00:22:58,920 Speaker 1: come from a very special state fourteen billion years ago, 405 00:22:59,280 --> 00:23:02,080 Speaker 1: we really know very very little about the origins of 406 00:23:02,080 --> 00:23:05,520 Speaker 1: that state, what created it, what caused it, if anything, 407 00:23:05,560 --> 00:23:08,439 Speaker 1: if it even means anything to say this something before 408 00:23:08,480 --> 00:23:10,879 Speaker 1: the Big Bang. You know, we have lots of different theories, 409 00:23:10,880 --> 00:23:13,119 Speaker 1: and some of them say that there is nothing before 410 00:23:13,119 --> 00:23:15,440 Speaker 1: the Big Bang, that's face in time, didn't even exist, 411 00:23:15,760 --> 00:23:18,040 Speaker 1: and other theories that say, you know, maybe there was 412 00:23:18,119 --> 00:23:20,639 Speaker 1: something before the Big Bang. We talked about pen roses 413 00:23:20,840 --> 00:23:24,960 Speaker 1: conformal cosmology that talked about the universe continuing to expand 414 00:23:25,000 --> 00:23:28,080 Speaker 1: like flower pedals upon flower pedals. So the point is 415 00:23:28,080 --> 00:23:30,199 Speaker 1: we don't know it all about what happened before the 416 00:23:30,200 --> 00:23:33,159 Speaker 1: Big Bang, which means that the universe could have existed 417 00:23:33,200 --> 00:23:36,879 Speaker 1: before it could have gone on basically infinitely into the past, 418 00:23:37,000 --> 00:23:40,000 Speaker 1: or a very long time into the past, or maybe 419 00:23:40,040 --> 00:23:42,720 Speaker 1: I guess the interesting and alternative is that maybe the 420 00:23:42,800 --> 00:23:45,760 Speaker 1: universe just popped out of existence out of the blue, 421 00:23:45,880 --> 00:23:48,960 Speaker 1: just like one of these Boltzmann brains. Right, that's one idea, 422 00:23:49,160 --> 00:23:51,320 Speaker 1: and this is sort of the direction that Boltzman was 423 00:23:51,359 --> 00:23:55,240 Speaker 1: going when he was thinking about entropy and probability. As 424 00:23:55,240 --> 00:23:58,320 Speaker 1: he was developing his theories in the late eighteen hundreds, 425 00:23:58,640 --> 00:24:01,640 Speaker 1: he realized that the second law of thermodynamics that tells 426 00:24:01,640 --> 00:24:04,879 Speaker 1: you that entropy is always increasing, that things basically tend 427 00:24:04,920 --> 00:24:09,280 Speaker 1: towards equilibrium, that our universe is sort of tending towards 428 00:24:09,280 --> 00:24:11,720 Speaker 1: a state where everything is going to be equally spread out, 429 00:24:11,760 --> 00:24:14,160 Speaker 1: and they call this the heat death of the universe. 430 00:24:14,280 --> 00:24:16,639 Speaker 1: He realized that if the universe goes on for a 431 00:24:16,760 --> 00:24:19,199 Speaker 1: very very long time, and this is sort of the 432 00:24:19,240 --> 00:24:21,880 Speaker 1: eventual end of the universe, that the universe would spend 433 00:24:22,160 --> 00:24:25,080 Speaker 1: most of its time as the heat death universe. Like, 434 00:24:25,160 --> 00:24:27,479 Speaker 1: eventually you get to the equilibrium, and then you just 435 00:24:27,520 --> 00:24:30,359 Speaker 1: stay there forever and ever and ever for the whole 436 00:24:30,400 --> 00:24:33,280 Speaker 1: life cycle of the universe. And so he realized that 437 00:24:33,600 --> 00:24:36,680 Speaker 1: it's kind of weird to not be at that point. 438 00:24:36,760 --> 00:24:40,240 Speaker 1: It's sort of strange and very unlikely, almost vanishingly unlikely, 439 00:24:40,480 --> 00:24:43,720 Speaker 1: that we're in a moment that's not at maximal entropy, right. 440 00:24:43,800 --> 00:24:45,680 Speaker 1: It's it's like, it's weird that there was so much 441 00:24:45,720 --> 00:24:48,480 Speaker 1: stuff kind of condensed in one place that would eventually 442 00:24:48,920 --> 00:24:53,160 Speaker 1: expand and explode into planets and people and bananas. Yeah, exactly. 443 00:24:53,400 --> 00:24:56,600 Speaker 1: And so his solution to this sort of paradox to 444 00:24:56,720 --> 00:25:00,560 Speaker 1: thinking like, if the universe just trends towards maximum entropy 445 00:25:00,600 --> 00:25:02,560 Speaker 1: all the time, then it should basically always be a 446 00:25:02,640 --> 00:25:05,480 Speaker 1: maxim of entropy. His solution was like, well, maybe there 447 00:25:05,480 --> 00:25:08,919 Speaker 1: are fluctuations. Maybe you can get the universe into this 448 00:25:09,040 --> 00:25:12,399 Speaker 1: like totally smooth state, but then randomly in some corner 449 00:25:12,480 --> 00:25:16,040 Speaker 1: or the universe, boom, it fluctuates to a lower entropy situation. 450 00:25:16,440 --> 00:25:20,320 Speaker 1: And so in his thinking, because entropy was statistical, it's 451 00:25:20,359 --> 00:25:22,439 Speaker 1: it's like property that came out of the motion of 452 00:25:22,480 --> 00:25:25,480 Speaker 1: the little particles inside it, not absolute that you could 453 00:25:25,480 --> 00:25:29,080 Speaker 1: get like little deviations, little moments when you break this 454 00:25:29,240 --> 00:25:31,240 Speaker 1: second law of Thuring dynamics, where things get a little 455 00:25:31,280 --> 00:25:34,600 Speaker 1: bit lower entropy. So, for example, he imagined, maybe the 456 00:25:34,720 --> 00:25:37,400 Speaker 1: universe is this vast pool that's in the heat death. 457 00:25:37,440 --> 00:25:41,280 Speaker 1: It's totally in equilibrium, but then a galaxy fluctuates out 458 00:25:41,280 --> 00:25:44,280 Speaker 1: of existence, and that's us. So he imagined that our 459 00:25:44,440 --> 00:25:49,960 Speaker 1: entire existence might be this like fluctuation out of equilibrium 460 00:25:50,160 --> 00:25:53,199 Speaker 1: of an otherwise like vast universe that's just sort of 461 00:25:53,200 --> 00:25:56,320 Speaker 1: like smooth and featureless, like you're a bubble in your 462 00:25:56,359 --> 00:26:02,359 Speaker 1: peanut butter or something. Well, that's a very humble analogy 463 00:26:02,440 --> 00:26:06,280 Speaker 1: for our entire galaxy. But we're not just one galaxy. 464 00:26:06,280 --> 00:26:08,520 Speaker 1: We can count trillings of galaxies out there. So it's 465 00:26:08,520 --> 00:26:10,600 Speaker 1: the idea that all of those streelings of galaxies are 466 00:26:10,680 --> 00:26:13,000 Speaker 1: just like a again, like a bubble in a in 467 00:26:13,000 --> 00:26:15,919 Speaker 1: a jar of peanut butter. Well, Boltzman was thinking about 468 00:26:15,920 --> 00:26:19,320 Speaker 1: this before we really understood the context of our universe 469 00:26:19,359 --> 00:26:21,720 Speaker 1: at all. This is the late eighteen hundreds, before people 470 00:26:21,760 --> 00:26:24,640 Speaker 1: even understood that there were other galaxies. That wasn't until 471 00:26:24,760 --> 00:26:27,600 Speaker 1: later when Hubbles saw those galaxies and realized while the 472 00:26:27,680 --> 00:26:31,720 Speaker 1: universe is much bigger than we ever imagined, and it's expanding. 473 00:26:31,960 --> 00:26:35,000 Speaker 1: So it makes Boltsman's strategy that's like, well we could 474 00:26:35,000 --> 00:26:38,800 Speaker 1: just fluctuate a galaxy out of equilibrium much more difficult 475 00:26:38,800 --> 00:26:41,520 Speaker 1: because now you have to fluctuate like the whole universe. 476 00:26:41,600 --> 00:26:44,399 Speaker 1: You have to take like the Big Bang and say 477 00:26:44,440 --> 00:26:47,760 Speaker 1: this entire Big bang, this like moment of crazy high density, 478 00:26:47,760 --> 00:26:50,399 Speaker 1: which led to, as you say, our entire universe with 479 00:26:50,440 --> 00:26:55,240 Speaker 1: galaxies and superclusters. That whole thing was a fluctuation, And 480 00:26:55,280 --> 00:26:58,080 Speaker 1: that's when the problem of Boltzmann brains arose because people realized, 481 00:26:58,119 --> 00:27:01,040 Speaker 1: you know what, that seems pretty unlikely. It's much more 482 00:27:01,160 --> 00:27:05,359 Speaker 1: likely to just fluctuate a brain. I mean, now, fluctuating 483 00:27:05,359 --> 00:27:09,359 Speaker 1: a whole universe out of equilibrium seems much much less 484 00:27:09,359 --> 00:27:12,200 Speaker 1: likely than just fluctuating one brain, which seems like pretty 485 00:27:12,200 --> 00:27:15,280 Speaker 1: reasonable in comparison. Is the idea that, like the universe 486 00:27:15,320 --> 00:27:18,399 Speaker 1: as we see it now suddenly appeared, or that the 487 00:27:18,440 --> 00:27:21,879 Speaker 1: Big Bang initially is one of these bubbles in the 488 00:27:21,880 --> 00:27:24,119 Speaker 1: peanut butter, you know what I mean? Like, is the 489 00:27:24,160 --> 00:27:26,840 Speaker 1: idea that we sort of like popped into existence the 490 00:27:26,880 --> 00:27:29,080 Speaker 1: way it is now with the galaxies moving at just 491 00:27:29,160 --> 00:27:33,560 Speaker 1: the right speeds and everything moving away from each other coincidentally, 492 00:27:34,240 --> 00:27:36,960 Speaker 1: Or is the idea that the maybe the Big Bang 493 00:27:37,119 --> 00:27:40,199 Speaker 1: was sort of the this bubble forming. The idea is 494 00:27:40,280 --> 00:27:42,840 Speaker 1: that the Big Bang was this bubble forming, right. That's 495 00:27:42,880 --> 00:27:46,000 Speaker 1: the concept of this kind of cosmology. It's not that 496 00:27:46,040 --> 00:27:48,920 Speaker 1: we're all being fooled and thinking that the universe existed 497 00:27:49,240 --> 00:27:52,080 Speaker 1: and then it just actually popped into existence right now 498 00:27:52,119 --> 00:27:55,240 Speaker 1: with this apparent history. It's that the Big Bang itself 499 00:27:55,560 --> 00:27:58,760 Speaker 1: was a fluctuation that the vaster universe is this ocean 500 00:27:58,840 --> 00:28:02,879 Speaker 1: of equilibrium at of which fluctuated this crazy condition, this 501 00:28:03,119 --> 00:28:06,600 Speaker 1: crazy low entropy state, which was the Big Bang, And 502 00:28:06,640 --> 00:28:09,240 Speaker 1: then physics sort of rolls forward the way we expected 503 00:28:09,280 --> 00:28:11,679 Speaker 1: and the way we've observed, and all of our experiments 504 00:28:11,720 --> 00:28:15,320 Speaker 1: are honest and actually have measured the history of the universe. 505 00:28:15,560 --> 00:28:18,479 Speaker 1: But this is an argument that's used to criticize that idea, 506 00:28:18,680 --> 00:28:22,000 Speaker 1: say that idea is so ridiculous and so absurd and 507 00:28:22,080 --> 00:28:24,919 Speaker 1: so unlikely, that it's more likely that you have this 508 00:28:25,040 --> 00:28:28,199 Speaker 1: other absurd scenario that we're all just Boltsman brains floating 509 00:28:28,200 --> 00:28:30,800 Speaker 1: in space. I guess you're saying that the universe is 510 00:28:30,920 --> 00:28:35,520 Speaker 1: so unlikely that it's more likely then that we are 511 00:28:35,560 --> 00:28:40,200 Speaker 1: all just all came into existence yesterday. That's the Boltsman 512 00:28:40,280 --> 00:28:43,400 Speaker 1: brain argument exactly. Says that if you believe that, then 513 00:28:43,440 --> 00:28:47,120 Speaker 1: you should also accept the possibility of Boltzmann brains. And 514 00:28:47,200 --> 00:28:49,720 Speaker 1: in an universe that has lived for a very very 515 00:28:49,760 --> 00:28:52,640 Speaker 1: long time, there'll be lots of Bolsman brains, and the 516 00:28:52,640 --> 00:28:55,280 Speaker 1: probability that you're not a Boltsman brain but like an 517 00:28:55,320 --> 00:28:59,920 Speaker 1: actual brain, seems very vanishing lee small, and so they're 518 00:29:00,000 --> 00:29:02,800 Speaker 1: for most likely we're all boltspan brains. Daniel, Are you 519 00:29:02,800 --> 00:29:05,480 Speaker 1: saying that there's a possibility that the Bible is right 520 00:29:07,000 --> 00:29:10,840 Speaker 1: and that actually it's more likely than your current theories 521 00:29:10,840 --> 00:29:14,600 Speaker 1: of physics? Is that what you're saying, Daniel? Can I 522 00:29:14,640 --> 00:29:17,200 Speaker 1: get you on the record to say that. You cannot 523 00:29:17,200 --> 00:29:18,920 Speaker 1: get me on the record to say that. You know, 524 00:29:19,000 --> 00:29:21,920 Speaker 1: this is one method that's used to sort of critique 525 00:29:22,280 --> 00:29:26,240 Speaker 1: this kind of cosmology, this particular idea that the Big 526 00:29:26,240 --> 00:29:30,920 Speaker 1: Bang was a low entropy fluctuation. It can be criticized 527 00:29:30,920 --> 00:29:32,640 Speaker 1: by this kind of argument. But you know, as we 528 00:29:32,680 --> 00:29:35,560 Speaker 1: can dig into in a minute, there also criticisms of 529 00:29:35,600 --> 00:29:38,360 Speaker 1: this argument, like you know, the boltspen brain argument itself, 530 00:29:38,400 --> 00:29:41,200 Speaker 1: like does it really hold up as a way to 531 00:29:41,320 --> 00:29:45,640 Speaker 1: evaluate the likelihood of the Big Bang as a fluctuation? Oh? 532 00:29:45,720 --> 00:29:48,400 Speaker 1: I see, we're still in thought experiment mode. It's not 533 00:29:48,520 --> 00:29:51,480 Speaker 1: that just because the Big Band is less likely that 534 00:29:51,680 --> 00:29:54,480 Speaker 1: than the idea that we're all just made yesterday. That's 535 00:29:54,520 --> 00:29:57,560 Speaker 1: not a good argument. We're still in thought mode. Yeah, 536 00:29:57,560 --> 00:29:59,960 Speaker 1: we're still in thought mode. And you know, just being 537 00:30:00,120 --> 00:30:04,479 Speaker 1: unlikely is in devastating. As we said, unlikely things do happen, 538 00:30:04,560 --> 00:30:07,880 Speaker 1: and so it certainly is possible that something unlikely happened, 539 00:30:07,880 --> 00:30:11,400 Speaker 1: and we're here anyway, that the reason, for example, that 540 00:30:11,480 --> 00:30:14,280 Speaker 1: we are here asking questions about why this unlikely thing 541 00:30:14,280 --> 00:30:17,440 Speaker 1: happened is because the unlikely thing happened, and otherwise they 542 00:30:17,440 --> 00:30:20,280 Speaker 1: wouldn't be anybody to ask these questions. So that's, for example, 543 00:30:20,680 --> 00:30:23,760 Speaker 1: one way out of this predicament. All right, well, let's 544 00:30:23,800 --> 00:30:27,200 Speaker 1: dig into what is wrong with this argument and why 545 00:30:27,520 --> 00:30:31,560 Speaker 1: it's maybe not possible for brains to spontaneously form out 546 00:30:31,560 --> 00:30:34,560 Speaker 1: of the blue, and most important, what does it all mean. 547 00:30:34,760 --> 00:30:50,280 Speaker 1: But first, let's take another quick break. All right, we're 548 00:30:50,280 --> 00:30:54,320 Speaker 1: talking about spontaneous brains, and sometimes I have spontaneous thoughts. 549 00:30:54,400 --> 00:30:58,200 Speaker 1: That's not the same thing, Daniel. Right now, all your 550 00:30:58,240 --> 00:31:01,320 Speaker 1: spontaneous thoughts are gold. The Boltzman brains are just brains 551 00:31:01,440 --> 00:31:03,640 Speaker 1: goles out there in space. That's right. That's what I'm 552 00:31:03,640 --> 00:31:08,120 Speaker 1: doing when I'm napping. I'm just making gold. It's called cartoons. 553 00:31:08,640 --> 00:31:10,760 Speaker 1: And you know, people out there might be thinking, hold 554 00:31:10,760 --> 00:31:14,320 Speaker 1: on a second, I'm pretty sure I'm not a Boltzman brain. 555 00:31:14,400 --> 00:31:16,480 Speaker 1: How can these folks be telling me I'm likely to 556 00:31:16,560 --> 00:31:19,080 Speaker 1: be a Boltzmann brain? Because like you look down and 557 00:31:19,160 --> 00:31:21,920 Speaker 1: you have arms, right, and legs and how could that 558 00:31:22,040 --> 00:31:25,640 Speaker 1: possibly be a Boltzman brain? But you only have memories 559 00:31:25,760 --> 00:31:28,400 Speaker 1: and electrical impulsis in your brain telling you that you 560 00:31:28,400 --> 00:31:30,760 Speaker 1: have arms and legs. But maybe those formed out of 561 00:31:30,760 --> 00:31:33,760 Speaker 1: the bluetooth. Yeah, maybe they did. And you know, you 562 00:31:33,800 --> 00:31:35,560 Speaker 1: can take that direction, you can say, well, you only 563 00:31:35,600 --> 00:31:37,760 Speaker 1: have memories of them. But you can also go the 564 00:31:37,800 --> 00:31:40,360 Speaker 1: other direction, and you could say, well, you know, let's 565 00:31:40,360 --> 00:31:43,880 Speaker 1: just not consider only Boltman brains. Let's consider Boltzmann people. 566 00:31:44,240 --> 00:31:45,920 Speaker 1: You know, like, if you're gonna fluctuate a brain out 567 00:31:45,960 --> 00:31:49,000 Speaker 1: of the vacuum, and it is basically almost impossibly unlikely, 568 00:31:49,040 --> 00:31:51,360 Speaker 1: why don't you just go whole hog and make a 569 00:31:51,400 --> 00:31:54,560 Speaker 1: whole person, you know, arms and legs and everything, Well, 570 00:31:54,680 --> 00:31:59,640 Speaker 1: the full Boltzman. Think of Boltzmann booties and it's full 571 00:31:59,720 --> 00:32:05,520 Speaker 1: fund a bolt and a Boltzman elbows, right, yeah, And 572 00:32:05,840 --> 00:32:08,000 Speaker 1: you know this is all in comparison to fluctuate in 573 00:32:08,280 --> 00:32:11,520 Speaker 1: entire universe out of the vacuum, and so compared to that, 574 00:32:11,600 --> 00:32:14,080 Speaker 1: like everything is basically free. Even if you add like 575 00:32:14,120 --> 00:32:17,840 Speaker 1: a Boltzman room around your Boltsman body, even a Boltzman town, 576 00:32:17,960 --> 00:32:21,760 Speaker 1: it's still much more likely than fluctuating the entire universe. Really, 577 00:32:22,280 --> 00:32:24,480 Speaker 1: like and you can expand that to the Earth, like 578 00:32:24,760 --> 00:32:28,640 Speaker 1: the whole Earth produced profit existence with photons coming out 579 00:32:28,640 --> 00:32:30,680 Speaker 1: of just the right way for us to think that 580 00:32:30,720 --> 00:32:34,960 Speaker 1: there's a larger universe. Yes, yes, exactly, And that's still 581 00:32:35,000 --> 00:32:37,360 Speaker 1: more likely than the Big Bang. That's more likely than 582 00:32:37,360 --> 00:32:39,800 Speaker 1: fluctuating the whole Big Bang. And this was the criticism 583 00:32:39,880 --> 00:32:43,480 Speaker 1: of Boltzman's arguments. You know, Boltzman's like, just fluctuated galaxy, 584 00:32:43,560 --> 00:32:46,320 Speaker 1: No big deal, folks, and people like, actually, that is 585 00:32:46,360 --> 00:32:49,000 Speaker 1: a pretty big deal. Fluctuating a brain is unlikely, and 586 00:32:49,040 --> 00:32:51,000 Speaker 1: that's much more likely. And so you know, as a 587 00:32:51,040 --> 00:32:54,200 Speaker 1: way to critique either fluctuating like a Boltzmann galaxy out 588 00:32:54,200 --> 00:32:57,040 Speaker 1: of the vacuum or fluctuating the whole universe, this is 589 00:32:57,080 --> 00:32:59,920 Speaker 1: just a way to point out that that's all seems really, 590 00:33:00,080 --> 00:33:03,200 Speaker 1: really really unlikely. But I guess the core argument, though, 591 00:33:03,400 --> 00:33:06,120 Speaker 1: is still valid. Isn't it that it is more likely 592 00:33:06,480 --> 00:33:09,680 Speaker 1: for us to have suddenly appeared six thousand years ago 593 00:33:09,840 --> 00:33:12,920 Speaker 1: than through a big bang fourteen billion years ago if 594 00:33:12,920 --> 00:33:14,640 Speaker 1: you think that the Big Bank comes from a low 595 00:33:14,760 --> 00:33:17,720 Speaker 1: entropy fluctuation. Yeah, and again we're not just talking about 596 00:33:17,760 --> 00:33:20,080 Speaker 1: like the creation of the universe in general. We're talking 597 00:33:20,120 --> 00:33:24,440 Speaker 1: about this one idea that the Big Bang is this fluctuation, right. 598 00:33:24,480 --> 00:33:26,680 Speaker 1: There are other ideas of how the Big Bank came 599 00:33:26,720 --> 00:33:29,280 Speaker 1: about or how the universe was formed that are not 600 00:33:29,440 --> 00:33:33,240 Speaker 1: this one particular cosmology, But this one is susceptible to 601 00:33:33,400 --> 00:33:36,640 Speaker 1: this criticism of Boltzmann brains. It's only if you think 602 00:33:36,640 --> 00:33:39,720 Speaker 1: that the universe itself fluctuated out of the blue. But 603 00:33:39,800 --> 00:33:43,120 Speaker 1: there's other ideas. Maybe the universe didn't fluctuate out of 604 00:33:43,120 --> 00:33:46,280 Speaker 1: the blue, maybe it came from something else. Yeah, exactly. 605 00:33:46,320 --> 00:33:48,840 Speaker 1: There are lots of other theories for where the universe 606 00:33:48,880 --> 00:33:51,520 Speaker 1: came from, you know, and like they're all improbable and 607 00:33:51,600 --> 00:33:54,760 Speaker 1: probably wrong. We talked about them on the podcast before. 608 00:33:55,120 --> 00:33:57,560 Speaker 1: You know, maybe there was a whole universe before and 609 00:33:57,600 --> 00:34:01,080 Speaker 1: there was a big crunch, or maybe base just started 610 00:34:01,360 --> 00:34:03,640 Speaker 1: at that moment and we don't understand how and why 611 00:34:03,680 --> 00:34:06,080 Speaker 1: and it doesn't even make any sense to ask that question. 612 00:34:06,360 --> 00:34:10,520 Speaker 1: Or maybe there's an inflating eternal universe where this sort 613 00:34:10,560 --> 00:34:13,840 Speaker 1: of weird infloton field then decays into the kind of 614 00:34:13,840 --> 00:34:16,400 Speaker 1: stuff which can create a big Bang. So, you know, 615 00:34:16,480 --> 00:34:18,880 Speaker 1: none of these things are like well formed theories that 616 00:34:18,960 --> 00:34:21,480 Speaker 1: anybody really believes. They're all just sort of still at 617 00:34:21,480 --> 00:34:24,480 Speaker 1: the level of intellectual playgrounds, because we're at that point 618 00:34:24,520 --> 00:34:26,919 Speaker 1: where were like throwing stuff off the wall and see 619 00:34:26,960 --> 00:34:29,640 Speaker 1: which brains stick to it. You know, which peanut butter 620 00:34:29,840 --> 00:34:35,160 Speaker 1: makes any sense at all? Maybe the universe is almond butter, right, 621 00:34:35,440 --> 00:34:38,359 Speaker 1: or it's got a peanut allergy. But yeah, right, and 622 00:34:38,400 --> 00:34:40,320 Speaker 1: that's been the problem the whole time. You know, I 623 00:34:40,360 --> 00:34:43,040 Speaker 1: guess what you're saying is that there might be other explanations, 624 00:34:43,080 --> 00:34:45,799 Speaker 1: but for them to be scientific, wouldn't they at the 625 00:34:45,880 --> 00:34:50,319 Speaker 1: core be sort of random events? Right? Otherwise, what what 626 00:34:50,440 --> 00:34:55,000 Speaker 1: else is there besides a random event? Sorry? Are you 627 00:34:55,040 --> 00:34:57,400 Speaker 1: saying that every idea is just a random event? I 628 00:34:57,440 --> 00:35:00,080 Speaker 1: mean you can't actually like think hard about things and 629 00:35:00,160 --> 00:35:02,279 Speaker 1: come up with good ideas well in terms of the 630 00:35:02,320 --> 00:35:05,160 Speaker 1: origin of the universe, right, like, maybe the universe came 631 00:35:05,160 --> 00:35:07,319 Speaker 1: from another universe, but where did that universe come from? 632 00:35:07,360 --> 00:35:10,560 Speaker 1: And then at infinitum and eventually you sort of come 633 00:35:10,640 --> 00:35:14,279 Speaker 1: to a probability argument, right, Well, maybe, I mean you 634 00:35:14,400 --> 00:35:18,480 Speaker 1: might come to a single possibility. It could be that 635 00:35:18,520 --> 00:35:21,400 Speaker 1: you discover that the laws of physics can only work 636 00:35:21,520 --> 00:35:24,480 Speaker 1: in one way, and the universe could have only started 637 00:35:24,480 --> 00:35:27,400 Speaker 1: in one way and be self consistent. It certainly is 638 00:35:27,440 --> 00:35:31,000 Speaker 1: possible to reveal that the universe has to be a 639 00:35:31,040 --> 00:35:33,960 Speaker 1: certain way because the laws only work. For example, if 640 00:35:34,000 --> 00:35:36,200 Speaker 1: that happens, and that that, I think is sort of 641 00:35:36,239 --> 00:35:38,279 Speaker 1: the hope and the goal that we'll get back to 642 00:35:38,320 --> 00:35:40,680 Speaker 1: the very beginning of stuff and we'll realize, oh, this 643 00:35:40,760 --> 00:35:43,160 Speaker 1: is the only way that makes sense, and so that 644 00:35:43,280 --> 00:35:45,600 Speaker 1: must be why it is this way. But we have 645 00:35:45,680 --> 00:35:49,080 Speaker 1: no guarantee. It could be an infinite ladder of questions 646 00:35:49,160 --> 00:35:52,080 Speaker 1: leading to questions leading to questions. We have no guarantee 647 00:35:52,120 --> 00:35:54,080 Speaker 1: we're ever going to make sense of it. That's making 648 00:35:54,120 --> 00:35:57,399 Speaker 1: my bols my brain hurt a little bit, and that's 649 00:35:57,400 --> 00:35:59,120 Speaker 1: not just because I'm in the middle of the sun 650 00:35:59,280 --> 00:36:02,840 Speaker 1: or days. So I guess. Then let's get back to 651 00:36:02,880 --> 00:36:05,279 Speaker 1: this question. Then are we a Boltzman brain and my 652 00:36:05,440 --> 00:36:07,799 Speaker 1: Bolthman brain? How can I be sure that I'm not? 653 00:36:08,200 --> 00:36:11,080 Speaker 1: You can't actually be sure that you're not a Boltman brain, 654 00:36:11,480 --> 00:36:14,040 Speaker 1: But you can use your brain to sort of reason 655 00:36:14,080 --> 00:36:17,040 Speaker 1: your way out of it, right. You can make arguments 656 00:36:17,160 --> 00:36:20,400 Speaker 1: that convince you that you're probably not a Boltzmann brain. 657 00:36:20,880 --> 00:36:23,279 Speaker 1: And this is you know, some good arguments out there. 658 00:36:23,560 --> 00:36:26,960 Speaker 1: One of my favorites comes from Sean Carrol. Right, Sean 659 00:36:27,040 --> 00:36:29,880 Speaker 1: Carroll thinks about this stuff pretty deeply, and you know, 660 00:36:30,040 --> 00:36:33,000 Speaker 1: he points out that if you're a Bolthman brain, that 661 00:36:33,080 --> 00:36:36,520 Speaker 1: means that most of the things you think are not 662 00:36:36,600 --> 00:36:40,160 Speaker 1: based in reality. They're like false memories that are implanted 663 00:36:40,160 --> 00:36:42,920 Speaker 1: in your brain when your Boltman brain assembled. Right, you 664 00:36:42,920 --> 00:36:46,719 Speaker 1: didn't actually go to that elementary school, you didn't actually 665 00:36:47,120 --> 00:36:51,360 Speaker 1: marry that person. That's all just fake memories. Right. Wait, wait, wait, wait, 666 00:36:51,360 --> 00:36:54,080 Speaker 1: he's saying that we are that or we're not that. 667 00:36:54,400 --> 00:36:56,799 Speaker 1: He's saying if you're a Boltzman brain, then all of 668 00:36:56,800 --> 00:36:59,399 Speaker 1: your memories and all of your thoughts are false right there, 669 00:36:59,440 --> 00:37:03,600 Speaker 1: just assembled randomly. They're not based on real experiences, real 670 00:37:03,719 --> 00:37:07,760 Speaker 1: inside into a real universe. And that includes the idea 671 00:37:07,840 --> 00:37:11,680 Speaker 1: of Boltzmann brains. So if you're a Bolsman brain, then 672 00:37:11,719 --> 00:37:14,680 Speaker 1: you shouldn't trust any of your ideas, including the idea 673 00:37:14,760 --> 00:37:19,120 Speaker 1: of Boldsman brains. What that's not right? Just because I'm 674 00:37:19,239 --> 00:37:22,839 Speaker 1: dreaming or because I'm an illusion doesn't mean that there 675 00:37:22,880 --> 00:37:25,799 Speaker 1: aren't real things that could exist outside of me. Right, 676 00:37:26,080 --> 00:37:29,479 Speaker 1: that's right. Yeah, but your thought about Boltzmann brains could 677 00:37:29,480 --> 00:37:32,160 Speaker 1: have not come from a careful analysis of the universe 678 00:37:32,200 --> 00:37:34,799 Speaker 1: and it's likelihood. It could just be like I'm made 679 00:37:34,880 --> 00:37:38,000 Speaker 1: up crazy idea and planting your brain because you know, 680 00:37:38,040 --> 00:37:40,000 Speaker 1: it just happened to come that way when the particles 681 00:37:40,040 --> 00:37:43,200 Speaker 1: assembled themselves out there near Alpha Centauri. It could have. 682 00:37:43,400 --> 00:37:46,040 Speaker 1: But it also could be the opposite, right. It could 683 00:37:46,080 --> 00:37:48,399 Speaker 1: be that it is true. It could be that it's true, right, 684 00:37:48,520 --> 00:37:50,680 Speaker 1: but you have no basis for believing that it's true 685 00:37:50,960 --> 00:37:53,399 Speaker 1: just because you're thinking it, right, I mean, he says, 686 00:37:53,680 --> 00:37:56,840 Speaker 1: if you reason yourself into believing that you live in 687 00:37:56,960 --> 00:37:59,960 Speaker 1: such universe with Bolsman brains, you have to conclude the 688 00:38:00,040 --> 00:38:04,000 Speaker 1: have no justification for accepting your own reasoning because the 689 00:38:04,040 --> 00:38:08,000 Speaker 1: reasoning and Boltman brains is by definition unreliable. They're not 690 00:38:08,040 --> 00:38:10,800 Speaker 1: doing any reasoning, they just like have ideas. And I 691 00:38:10,880 --> 00:38:13,960 Speaker 1: think you're saying that the argument against this crazy idea 692 00:38:14,120 --> 00:38:16,600 Speaker 1: is that if you are like a spontaneous brain that 693 00:38:16,760 --> 00:38:19,920 Speaker 1: formed with all these crazy thoughts in it, then you 694 00:38:19,960 --> 00:38:22,799 Speaker 1: can't really say anything about reality, Like maybe all of 695 00:38:22,800 --> 00:38:25,040 Speaker 1: what you think are the laws of physics could just 696 00:38:25,080 --> 00:38:28,600 Speaker 1: be some kind of sort of bogus random assembly of 697 00:38:28,840 --> 00:38:31,279 Speaker 1: molecules in your head. Yeah, you can't like at the 698 00:38:31,360 --> 00:38:34,240 Speaker 1: same time, conclude that you live in like a randomly 699 00:38:34,239 --> 00:38:37,719 Speaker 1: fluctuating universe creating brains, and believe that you have good 700 00:38:37,719 --> 00:38:40,440 Speaker 1: reason for listening to those brains. Well you could, but 701 00:38:40,520 --> 00:38:43,719 Speaker 1: you just wouldn't be a serious train. You'd be a 702 00:38:43,760 --> 00:38:47,040 Speaker 1: brain cast exactly. So he says that the whole idea 703 00:38:47,160 --> 00:38:50,520 Speaker 1: is what he calls cognitively unstable, that if you believe 704 00:38:50,560 --> 00:38:53,279 Speaker 1: in it, that gives you reason to not believe in it. Right, 705 00:38:53,320 --> 00:38:55,480 Speaker 1: And so it says the whole thing sort of falls apart. Well, 706 00:38:55,480 --> 00:38:58,719 Speaker 1: it doesn't fall apart, it just makes it questionable, right, 707 00:38:58,760 --> 00:39:01,360 Speaker 1: but it's good still be true, right, you have anything 708 00:39:01,400 --> 00:39:03,640 Speaker 1: could still be true. That's a low standard. Remember we're 709 00:39:03,719 --> 00:39:06,480 Speaker 1: using this idea is a way like probe the likelihood 710 00:39:06,760 --> 00:39:09,759 Speaker 1: of a cosmological theory, of saying could the universe be 711 00:39:09,920 --> 00:39:12,560 Speaker 1: this way? And the argument is if your theory the 712 00:39:12,640 --> 00:39:15,399 Speaker 1: universe suggests there are more Boltman brains than not, then 713 00:39:15,400 --> 00:39:17,239 Speaker 1: you're not really going to believe in it. And this 714 00:39:17,360 --> 00:39:19,520 Speaker 1: is just a way of saying, you know, okay, Bollsman 715 00:39:19,600 --> 00:39:21,960 Speaker 1: brains are bad, but you know, you can be pretty 716 00:39:21,960 --> 00:39:24,320 Speaker 1: confident that you're not a Boltswin brain. If you're forming 717 00:39:24,360 --> 00:39:27,680 Speaker 1: like well thought out, coherent ideas. What if Einstein was 718 00:39:27,719 --> 00:39:32,200 Speaker 1: a Baltzmann brain and he happened to be right? Yeah? Maybe? 719 00:39:32,400 --> 00:39:34,560 Speaker 1: And you know you have to also wonder, like, should 720 00:39:34,600 --> 00:39:37,360 Speaker 1: you listen to your own ideas? Right? If the universe 721 00:39:37,440 --> 00:39:40,280 Speaker 1: is filled with bullspin brains, probably more of those Bollsman 722 00:39:40,320 --> 00:39:44,200 Speaker 1: brains are not very clever. Then there are Bollsman brains 723 00:39:44,200 --> 00:39:47,480 Speaker 1: that are like Einstein, right, Which means that you're probably 724 00:39:47,560 --> 00:39:51,239 Speaker 1: not Einstein, which makes you wonder, life, should you be 725 00:39:51,320 --> 00:39:53,680 Speaker 1: listening to your own thoughts about the universe. I don't know. 726 00:39:53,719 --> 00:39:56,520 Speaker 1: It's the most insulting thing I've heard from me, Daniel. 727 00:39:56,680 --> 00:39:59,920 Speaker 1: You still, I'm probably not Einstein. I mean, Einstein was 728 00:40:00,000 --> 00:40:02,160 Speaker 1: and smart enough to come up with your peanut butter analogy. 729 00:40:02,480 --> 00:40:05,759 Speaker 1: I got that on him. Yet, maybe I'm smarter than Einstein. 730 00:40:06,360 --> 00:40:10,680 Speaker 1: Maybe you're right, Maybe I'm not Einstein. Maybe I'm better 731 00:40:10,719 --> 00:40:13,440 Speaker 1: at cartooning than eight Stein. Yeah, I'm sure that's true. 732 00:40:13,680 --> 00:40:15,799 Speaker 1: This is part of that counterpoint that you were talking 733 00:40:15,840 --> 00:40:18,479 Speaker 1: about that you mentioned, is this idea that there could 734 00:40:18,480 --> 00:40:21,920 Speaker 1: be Boltman brain, but there may not necessarily be smart 735 00:40:22,000 --> 00:40:25,120 Speaker 1: Boltzmann brains. Yeah, exactly, So we could be a bunch 736 00:40:25,160 --> 00:40:28,000 Speaker 1: of Bolsman brains, so to fool on ourselves into believing 737 00:40:28,080 --> 00:40:30,640 Speaker 1: some silly argument about the origin the universe because we're 738 00:40:30,640 --> 00:40:34,759 Speaker 1: not a wave, so we could be Boltman brains foolishly 739 00:40:34,760 --> 00:40:39,799 Speaker 1: thinking that bolts when brains are possible. Yes, but then 740 00:40:39,840 --> 00:40:43,520 Speaker 1: we would be right if that's true. You might have 741 00:40:43,600 --> 00:40:45,839 Speaker 1: to be a dumb Boltmann brain to believe the dumb 742 00:40:45,840 --> 00:40:51,320 Speaker 1: Boltman brain idea doesn't make any sense. You just proved yourself. 743 00:40:51,920 --> 00:40:55,200 Speaker 1: Oh man, it's confusing, all right, Well, then what's the 744 00:40:55,239 --> 00:40:58,239 Speaker 1: other alternative? I guess if the universe is not a 745 00:40:58,320 --> 00:41:02,160 Speaker 1: random fluctuation, you know, there are sort of two other alternatives. 746 00:41:02,600 --> 00:41:05,319 Speaker 1: One is to accept that maybe the universe was a 747 00:41:05,440 --> 00:41:10,880 Speaker 1: really unusual, unlikely fluctuation, and then just to say that's okay, Like, 748 00:41:10,960 --> 00:41:15,319 Speaker 1: sometimes really rare things do happen, even like unfathomably rare, 749 00:41:15,360 --> 00:41:18,960 Speaker 1: like an entire big bang coming into existence out of 750 00:41:19,000 --> 00:41:22,120 Speaker 1: thermal equilibrium. Sometimes they do happen. And this is what 751 00:41:22,160 --> 00:41:24,600 Speaker 1: we were talking about before. It's the anthropic principle. It 752 00:41:24,680 --> 00:41:28,799 Speaker 1: says that it's okay for unlikely things to happen if 753 00:41:28,840 --> 00:41:31,920 Speaker 1: they're necessary for you to be here to ask questions 754 00:41:31,960 --> 00:41:35,960 Speaker 1: about how unlikely they are. Maybe the universe is infinite 755 00:41:36,360 --> 00:41:39,319 Speaker 1: and this kind of stuff almost never happens. But in 756 00:41:39,320 --> 00:41:42,439 Speaker 1: the places where it's not happening, there's nobody noticing. There's 757 00:41:42,440 --> 00:41:44,560 Speaker 1: nobody asking like, hey, how come we didn't get a 758 00:41:44,560 --> 00:41:47,000 Speaker 1: big bang over here. It's only in the places where 759 00:41:47,040 --> 00:41:49,200 Speaker 1: you do have a big bang and then people to 760 00:41:49,239 --> 00:41:51,680 Speaker 1: ask these questions that you ask these questions. So it's 761 00:41:51,719 --> 00:41:55,680 Speaker 1: like me saying, what's the probability of me existing? I 762 00:41:55,719 --> 00:41:58,520 Speaker 1: can't rule out my own existence by arguing that I'm 763 00:41:58,600 --> 00:42:01,719 Speaker 1: unlikely because I did happen. Right. It's like you're a 764 00:42:01,760 --> 00:42:04,399 Speaker 1: pair of snake eyes and a pair of die right, 765 00:42:04,480 --> 00:42:07,080 Speaker 1: Like you're two ones, and you're thinking, like, oh my god, 766 00:42:07,320 --> 00:42:09,879 Speaker 1: what that's crazy that I exist? But you don't know 767 00:42:10,080 --> 00:42:13,840 Speaker 1: if the universe, you know, through the paradise bazillion times 768 00:42:13,840 --> 00:42:17,440 Speaker 1: before you existed. Yeah, exactly. And I don't really like 769 00:42:17,520 --> 00:42:19,680 Speaker 1: that argument that much. It feels to me like sort 770 00:42:19,719 --> 00:42:22,560 Speaker 1: of a cop out. It says, there's no answer. Stop 771 00:42:22,640 --> 00:42:26,000 Speaker 1: asking questions. You know, there's no reason for this very 772 00:42:26,080 --> 00:42:29,680 Speaker 1: unlikely thing. And in science it might be true. But 773 00:42:29,760 --> 00:42:32,160 Speaker 1: in science we've made a lot of good progress by 774 00:42:32,239 --> 00:42:35,319 Speaker 1: looking at weird stuff and going hmm, that's weird. I 775 00:42:35,400 --> 00:42:38,240 Speaker 1: wonder if there's more to the story, And that's usually 776 00:42:38,320 --> 00:42:41,080 Speaker 1: the way we pull on threads and unravel something deep 777 00:42:41,120 --> 00:42:43,960 Speaker 1: and true and interesting about the universe. So can't disprove 778 00:42:43,960 --> 00:42:46,040 Speaker 1: the anthropic argument. But it's sort of like it doesn't 779 00:42:46,040 --> 00:42:49,120 Speaker 1: give you anywhere else to go. There's nothing deeper you 780 00:42:49,120 --> 00:42:51,920 Speaker 1: can do after you answer a question that way, So 781 00:42:52,000 --> 00:42:54,839 Speaker 1: it's not really very satisfying. I'd like to keep digging. Well, 782 00:42:54,880 --> 00:42:57,239 Speaker 1: you could keep asking like who through the die right, 783 00:42:58,080 --> 00:43:00,520 Speaker 1: or like how does the die throwing work? That would 784 00:43:00,640 --> 00:43:04,160 Speaker 1: explain and and it'd be interesting to look into. Yeah, absolutely, 785 00:43:04,320 --> 00:43:06,680 Speaker 1: but it doesn't answer the question of like, why is 786 00:43:06,719 --> 00:43:10,960 Speaker 1: our seemingly impossibly unlikely universe exists? He says, well, it 787 00:43:11,040 --> 00:43:12,960 Speaker 1: just kind of does. Well, I think that's a perfectly 788 00:43:12,960 --> 00:43:14,399 Speaker 1: good reason. I mean, I tell it to my kids 789 00:43:14,440 --> 00:43:17,640 Speaker 1: all the time, just because why can't you watch more TV? 790 00:43:18,480 --> 00:43:21,680 Speaker 1: Just because because Daddy needs you to go to bed? 791 00:43:22,280 --> 00:43:26,560 Speaker 1: Because my Baltzman brain says so, because my baltmonan gratest tired. 792 00:43:27,000 --> 00:43:29,480 Speaker 1: I guess the idea is that maybe our universe did 793 00:43:29,560 --> 00:43:32,360 Speaker 1: come out of this super crazy, unlikely event, But that 794 00:43:32,480 --> 00:43:34,960 Speaker 1: doesn't mean that within it you can have these crazy 795 00:43:35,040 --> 00:43:37,640 Speaker 1: Balthman brains floating in it. Yeah, And I think the 796 00:43:37,640 --> 00:43:40,759 Speaker 1: other sort of category of answers is to say, all right, 797 00:43:40,880 --> 00:43:44,640 Speaker 1: you're right Boltzmann brains suggest that the universe as a 798 00:43:44,719 --> 00:43:48,759 Speaker 1: low entropy fluctuation is super unlikely. So let's focus on 799 00:43:48,920 --> 00:43:52,120 Speaker 1: other cosmologies, other ideas for how the universe started that 800 00:43:52,239 --> 00:43:56,000 Speaker 1: don't require it to have existed forever and then fluctuate 801 00:43:56,280 --> 00:43:59,000 Speaker 1: into a big bang. Things that where the universe actually 802 00:43:59,040 --> 00:44:02,080 Speaker 1: did start for billion years ago, or there's some other 803 00:44:02,200 --> 00:44:05,600 Speaker 1: mechanism for creating the Big Bang other than it's just 804 00:44:05,640 --> 00:44:09,560 Speaker 1: like weird random, super low entropy fluctuation. All right, I 805 00:44:09,600 --> 00:44:12,440 Speaker 1: guess maybe we just have to keep our fingers crossed. 806 00:44:12,440 --> 00:44:14,719 Speaker 1: Then it's that kind of the general approach here that 807 00:44:15,160 --> 00:44:17,319 Speaker 1: there's a lot we don't know, and we don't know 808 00:44:17,400 --> 00:44:20,200 Speaker 1: what these actual probabilities are. Yeah, and this is just 809 00:44:20,239 --> 00:44:23,280 Speaker 1: a fun way to sort of like explore these ideas 810 00:44:23,280 --> 00:44:25,960 Speaker 1: and to think about the consequences. You know, we have 811 00:44:26,160 --> 00:44:29,720 Speaker 1: such an incredible lack of knowledge about the early universe 812 00:44:29,760 --> 00:44:33,320 Speaker 1: and such an incredible variety of kind of bonkers ideas 813 00:44:33,320 --> 00:44:36,200 Speaker 1: for how it could have come about that it's useful 814 00:44:36,200 --> 00:44:38,400 Speaker 1: to like come up with these arguments to evaluate them, 815 00:44:38,400 --> 00:44:40,680 Speaker 1: because we can't like go back in time and see 816 00:44:40,680 --> 00:44:43,440 Speaker 1: what actually happened, or journey around the whole universe and 817 00:44:43,480 --> 00:44:45,759 Speaker 1: gather the data we need. So until then we just 818 00:44:45,840 --> 00:44:48,440 Speaker 1: are stuck here on Earth in our brains, whites and 819 00:44:48,480 --> 00:44:52,000 Speaker 1: brains or cham brains or Boltsman brains, thinking about the 820 00:44:52,000 --> 00:44:54,839 Speaker 1: origin of the universe and convincing ourselves that maybe we're 821 00:44:54,840 --> 00:45:00,640 Speaker 1: making progress. Yeah, that's a good point, David, you just 822 00:45:00,640 --> 00:45:02,200 Speaker 1: woke me up from my nap. I was doing some 823 00:45:02,239 --> 00:45:06,640 Speaker 1: thought experiments. David and Klan nap their way through the universe. 824 00:45:06,719 --> 00:45:09,680 Speaker 1: We could replace ourselves and none of the other Bolsman 825 00:45:09,719 --> 00:45:13,040 Speaker 1: brains would notice the difference. Maybe our Bolzman listeners would notice. 826 00:45:13,560 --> 00:45:15,759 Speaker 1: All right, Well, we hope that gave you as much 827 00:45:15,760 --> 00:45:18,680 Speaker 1: of a Boltzmann headache and it did for me, and 828 00:45:18,760 --> 00:45:21,640 Speaker 1: that it maybe helped you think about what's like the 829 00:45:21,680 --> 00:45:23,919 Speaker 1: out there in the universe and whether or not it's 830 00:45:24,000 --> 00:45:27,480 Speaker 1: all even real. Thanks for joining us, See you next time. 831 00:45:35,400 --> 00:45:38,280 Speaker 1: Thanks for listening, and remember that Daniel and Jorge explained. 832 00:45:38,280 --> 00:45:41,279 Speaker 1: The Universe is a production of I Heart Radio or 833 00:45:41,320 --> 00:45:44,239 Speaker 1: more podcast for my Heart Radio, visit the I heart 834 00:45:44,320 --> 00:45:47,919 Speaker 1: Radio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you listen to your 835 00:45:47,960 --> 00:45:48,720 Speaker 1: favorite shows.