WEBVTT - Kurt Anderson & Randi Weingarten 0:00:00.680 --> 0:00:04.160 Hi, I'm Molly John Fast and This is Fast Politics, 0:00:04.400 --> 0:00:07.160 where we discussed the top political headlines with some of 0:00:07.200 --> 0:00:12.920 today's best minds and Elon Musk's own AI labels him 0:00:13.039 --> 0:00:18.560 one of the most significant spreaders of misinformation on X 0:00:18.840 --> 0:00:23.560 Kurt Anderson stops by to talk about the fantasy land 0:00:23.680 --> 0:00:26.960 that we're in now. Then we'll talk to Randy Weingarten, 0:00:27.080 --> 0:00:30.479 president of the American Federation of Teachers. He's going to 0:00:30.520 --> 0:00:35.920 give us her reaction to Donald Trump's attack on America's 0:00:36.000 --> 0:00:40.479 education system. We don't have news today because it's just 0:00:40.560 --> 0:00:45.920 too much snakes and we needed to take a tiny break. 0:00:46.720 --> 0:00:52.680 We will be back on Monday with lots of news 0:00:52.720 --> 0:00:57.600 and lots of fuckory, and sometimes we just have to 0:00:57.640 --> 0:01:00.319 take a tiny break. So we love you guys, and 0:01:00.360 --> 0:01:02.720 we know how hard this is, and we hope that 0:01:02.800 --> 0:01:06.640 you'll spend the weekend watching movies and eating cookies and 0:01:07.319 --> 0:01:17.040 trying to regroup because January is coming. Kurt Anderson is 0:01:17.080 --> 0:01:21.279 the author of Evil Geniuses and the co creator of Commandsy. Kurt, 0:01:21.319 --> 0:01:24.399 thank you so much for joining me today. You know, 0:01:24.480 --> 0:01:27.399 there was only one person who I wanted to talk 0:01:27.480 --> 0:01:30.480 to about the fantasy land that we now live in 0:01:30.600 --> 0:01:34.200 and that was Kurt Anderson. So true. 0:01:34.640 --> 0:01:36.640 Hi, Mollie, it's so good to be here. 0:01:38.080 --> 0:01:41.520 I'm sorry Court Anderson for asking you to record so 0:01:41.640 --> 0:01:44.679 early in the morning, but I'm going to Washington, so 0:01:44.800 --> 0:01:46.760 I had to get you when I could get you. 0:01:47.160 --> 0:01:49.440 Well, you know, it was of all the weeks and 0:01:49.560 --> 0:01:53.600 all the special day periods, this one seemed up my alley. 0:01:53.680 --> 0:01:57.000 So thank you for seeing. I'm a chronicler of madness. 0:01:57.080 --> 0:02:00.000 Yeah, as an author of a book called Fantasy Lane, 0:02:00.600 --> 0:02:03.480 and the fact that we are now across the rubicon 0:02:03.800 --> 0:02:06.920 into what is going to be four years of at 0:02:06.960 --> 0:02:11.360 best fantasy Land and at worst dystopia Land, which would 0:02:11.400 --> 0:02:13.200 just technically be dystopia. 0:02:13.280 --> 0:02:16.079 Well, and my other book that's kind of a companion 0:02:16.120 --> 0:02:18.000 to it, of course, is called Evil Geniuses. So you 0:02:18.080 --> 0:02:20.600 got your Fantasy Land and you got your Evil Geniuses in. 0:02:20.639 --> 0:02:24.720 The What's so interesting to me about round two of 0:02:24.760 --> 0:02:28.480 this is that we have all of this sort of 0:02:28.560 --> 0:02:33.160 earnestness of Round one, where we were like, these are institutions, 0:02:33.200 --> 0:02:36.520 this cannot happen, is gone, and now we have gone 0:02:36.639 --> 0:02:40.480 full into this sort of nihilism that is the nineteen nineties. 0:02:41.000 --> 0:02:43.280 Absolutely, I don't know if it's the nineteen nineties. What 0:02:43.400 --> 0:02:47.079 I realized actually thinking about this the last boy for 0:02:47.160 --> 0:02:52.079 hours is that it's the forty seven ad to an 0:02:52.080 --> 0:02:54.200 extreme degree. I mean, people in the past, I think 0:02:54.200 --> 0:02:57.120 it said, oh, Trump is like Nero. Trump is like Caligula, 0:02:57.200 --> 0:03:01.520 the Caligula thing, where these appointments of Tulca Gabbard and 0:03:01.560 --> 0:03:05.799 Matt Gates and Pete tag Seth, it's just so beyond. 0:03:05.960 --> 0:03:09.600 I mean, the first national security people he announced were 0:03:09.639 --> 0:03:13.040 just you know, second tier conservative Republicans, quasi ormy, okay, 0:03:13.120 --> 0:03:15.239 like let's soften everybody up. And lots of friends of 0:03:15.320 --> 0:03:17.480 mine said, oh, this is kind of reassuring. This is 0:03:17.520 --> 0:03:18.240 not bad, right. 0:03:18.360 --> 0:03:22.080 Democracy will not end with Marco Rubio appointment. 0:03:22.360 --> 0:03:25.320 Let's not forget Robert F. Kennedy junior my freshman year 0:03:25.360 --> 0:03:28.359 in college. Drug dealer, a coped dealer. But Trump has 0:03:28.400 --> 0:03:31.799 been successful because he's not like a conventional politician. From 0:03:31.840 --> 0:03:34.560 the beginning, he's anti establishment to the max. Well, this 0:03:34.680 --> 0:03:37.320 is not anti establishment in the way that I don't 0:03:37.320 --> 0:03:40.640 know John Fetterman is or Bernie Sanders is or those 0:03:40.720 --> 0:03:45.120 kinds of people. It is mocking all expertise and experience 0:03:45.200 --> 0:03:48.920 and judgment and seriousness and virtue and making a travesty 0:03:48.960 --> 0:03:50.920 of it and saying it doesn't matter, and saying you're 0:03:51.000 --> 0:03:54.800 all full of shit, you people who actually have careers 0:03:54.840 --> 0:03:58.720 and know things, and if any things, this is I mean, 0:03:58.720 --> 0:04:02.920 if anybody's ever seen the various movies John Herger, other 0:04:03.000 --> 0:04:08.400 actors playing Calicula, he was this this corrupt, unstable, cruel, 0:04:09.000 --> 0:04:13.200 extravagant sexual freak and love spectacle. And he was mister 0:04:13.360 --> 0:04:16.680 Gladiator and probably nuts and you had to worship him, 0:04:16.720 --> 0:04:20.720 and at least allegedly at least joked about making his 0:04:20.880 --> 0:04:22.760 horse a senator. It was he going to be as 0:04:22.800 --> 0:04:25.279 good as senator as you, and made the senators Roman 0:04:25.320 --> 0:04:29.159 senators grovel literally grovel, didn't kiss his feet. So here 0:04:29.160 --> 0:04:29.480 we are. 0:04:29.600 --> 0:04:29.760 Man. 0:04:29.839 --> 0:04:33.320 You got a literary, metaphorical thing. It's it. 0:04:33.640 --> 0:04:36.120 Well, you know what I was so struck by is 0:04:36.160 --> 0:04:41.800 that in twenty sixteen, right Republicans refused to stand up 0:04:41.800 --> 0:04:44.080 to Trump. They felt they didn't need to, or they 0:04:44.080 --> 0:04:46.400 didn't want to, or you know, it wasn't worth. The 0:04:46.440 --> 0:04:49.719 calculus was like, I don't want death threats, I don't 0:04:49.760 --> 0:04:52.400 want to be booed at the airport. I just want to, 0:04:52.640 --> 0:04:56.279 like tow the line and not to make my life difficult. 0:04:56.440 --> 0:05:00.400 And even like Mitch McConnell, could have ended this whole 0:05:00.480 --> 0:05:03.560 thing by saying to Republicans that they could vote to 0:05:03.600 --> 0:05:07.039 convict Dan Trump would have been ineligible to run for 0:05:07.120 --> 0:05:11.160 president again, and that would have been done complete. But instead, 0:05:11.440 --> 0:05:14.680 here we are. There are four seats that Democrats would 0:05:14.760 --> 0:05:19.280 need to swing to tank any of these nominations. Trump really, 0:05:19.400 --> 0:05:21.760 I think, has made many overtures that he would like 0:05:21.800 --> 0:05:25.200 to make these reciss appointments. I'm not sure if he'll 0:05:25.200 --> 0:05:27.440 be able to, but maybe he will. You know, if 0:05:27.520 --> 0:05:30.520 I've learned anything, it's underestimate Trump at your own peril. 0:05:30.640 --> 0:05:33.280 Right, No, absolutely, And you know, and we look for 0:05:33.360 --> 0:05:36.600 these gloomers of hope. Well it's John Foon instead of 0:05:36.880 --> 0:05:40.560 somebody worse as the Senate majority leader. So maybe he's 0:05:40.600 --> 0:05:44.039 more of an institutionalist than a normal fellow. Maybe he'll 0:05:44.040 --> 0:05:48.479 do the right thing. We'll see, Yeah, betting on the 0:05:48.520 --> 0:05:52.920 Republicans electeds in Washington doing the right thing obviously ausing bet, yes, 0:05:53.160 --> 0:05:53.440 has not. 0:05:53.520 --> 0:05:54.960 I've been fruitful. 0:05:54.600 --> 0:05:57.440 Freight ear well, see I did get pleasure and not 0:05:57.520 --> 0:06:01.600 just shutting freud, but like, okay, when the various senators, 0:06:01.760 --> 0:06:05.160 especially Republican senators as well as Republican House members, came 0:06:05.200 --> 0:06:09.320 out about Matt Gates just saying, are you fucking kidding me? 0:06:09.760 --> 0:06:12.719 This guy is this ex trafficker? This guy can't be 0:06:13.040 --> 0:06:17.000 you know. So there is more at this Roseveldt date, 0:06:17.120 --> 0:06:22.839 and with these extreme egregious human nominations, some at least 0:06:23.279 --> 0:06:27.600 rhetorical emission of the truth of the horror of this 0:06:28.200 --> 0:06:33.840 idiocracy animal house unqualified madness that he's proposing. 0:06:34.160 --> 0:06:37.200 Idiocracy is a really good word for what we're about 0:06:37.240 --> 0:06:39.760 to embark on if we talk about the Senate and 0:06:39.800 --> 0:06:41.920 the House too, But it's not quite the same. The 0:06:41.960 --> 0:06:46.039 Senate built on the idea that these people, at least 0:06:46.040 --> 0:06:48.880 the thing that they are these moral pillars. 0:06:48.960 --> 0:06:49.120 Right. 0:06:49.279 --> 0:06:51.360 The thing about the Senate is it's a lot of 0:06:51.360 --> 0:06:53.599 work to get there and quite a bit of work 0:06:53.600 --> 0:06:56.320 to stay there. It would be easier just to go 0:06:56.400 --> 0:07:00.360 into investment banking. So these people have kept these jobs 0:07:00.560 --> 0:07:04.360 because on some level or not, maybe hypocritically whatever, but 0:07:04.400 --> 0:07:08.240 they think they care about American government. So here we 0:07:08.279 --> 0:07:11.640 are now in a moment where it doesn't matter, right, 0:07:11.720 --> 0:07:16.160 these people have to pretend that this is normal or 0:07:16.400 --> 0:07:17.120 something else. 0:07:17.120 --> 0:07:19.240 Well, yes, that is the thing. And of course the 0:07:19.280 --> 0:07:22.000 Senate has always been. It was in the Constitution, was 0:07:22.080 --> 0:07:24.160 as the framers were framing it, talked about the center 0:07:24.280 --> 0:07:26.960 versus the house as being this place that would you know, 0:07:27.120 --> 0:07:29.920 cool the tea cup of the house, where it was 0:07:29.960 --> 0:07:32.640 all nutty and crazy, all and hot all the time. 0:07:32.800 --> 0:07:35.160 That was this the thing. And of course the US 0:07:35.200 --> 0:07:39.520 Senate and therefore senators are all about this. We are 0:07:39.560 --> 0:07:42.920 the dignified people in Washington. We look down on the House, 0:07:43.000 --> 0:07:46.960 and so occasionally, like now and in the last eight years, 0:07:47.120 --> 0:07:50.040 that dignity has called to be more than just how 0:07:50.080 --> 0:07:53.120 they act and look and dress. And yeah, Mitt Romney, 0:07:53.120 --> 0:07:56.760 you look, you'll identify your central casting. But like dudes, 0:07:57.000 --> 0:08:00.400 now's the time to really hump, try to do the 0:08:00.480 --> 0:08:03.600 right thing and not let this go into this decadent 0:08:03.880 --> 0:08:07.520 imperial rome thing that he's he's really trying to take 0:08:07.560 --> 0:08:10.240 us to. No, we'll see. You know, you only need 0:08:10.560 --> 0:08:17.160 Susan Collins again, betting on Susan Colly as well, or Rakowski. 0:08:17.400 --> 0:08:19.760 You need you say four, I guess you need four 0:08:19.800 --> 0:08:21.480 people to say no, I'm not doing this. 0:08:21.840 --> 0:08:28.520 Cornyan, maybe Langford, maybe Mitch McConnell. Maybe I mean, well. 0:08:28.560 --> 0:08:32.120 Mis McConnell is retiring in two years and is gone, 0:08:32.320 --> 0:08:35.840 Like yeah, okay, it's time to atone a little bit guy. 0:08:36.080 --> 0:08:40.320 And don't sleep on Tom Taylus because Tom Taylus is 0:08:40.360 --> 0:08:43.600 in a rapidly purple in state. But again, like this 0:08:43.640 --> 0:08:47.040 is such wish casting. Like even in twenty sixteen, like 0:08:47.080 --> 0:08:49.199 if we just step back from minut in twenty sixteen, 0:08:49.360 --> 0:08:52.600 you had some Republicans who were actually less insane and 0:08:52.600 --> 0:08:55.560 they were chased out of the party. And again, insane 0:08:55.920 --> 0:08:58.120 is relative, but they had more of a sort of 0:08:58.200 --> 0:09:02.360 sense of what all, you know what. The previous generation 0:09:02.520 --> 0:09:05.560 had a certain like traditionalism. So I'm talking about Jeff 0:09:05.600 --> 0:09:09.720 Blake or you know. But again, it's hard for me 0:09:09.880 --> 0:09:13.600 to imagine that it's hard to imagine that this ends 0:09:13.640 --> 0:09:14.720 up being Okay. 0:09:14.600 --> 0:09:17.640 No, I hear you, And I again, I'm not going 0:09:17.720 --> 0:09:22.320 to be the you know, my habitual temperamental fifty one percentist, 0:09:22.440 --> 0:09:26.800 which I've all that is the thing, like okay, barely optimist. Okay, 0:09:26.920 --> 0:09:29.199 it doesn't necessarily work, and I you know, you don't 0:09:29.200 --> 0:09:31.959 want to be Charlie Brown and is having the ball 0:09:32.080 --> 0:09:33.040 kicked out, having a your. 0:09:33.320 --> 0:09:35.360 But you also want you can't give up, and you 0:09:35.400 --> 0:09:36.520 can't give into despair. 0:09:36.720 --> 0:09:40.960 No exactly. Again, my hopeful view perhaps is that, yeah, 0:09:41.200 --> 0:09:44.240 the Jeff flakes at all have been kicked out. I 0:09:44.240 --> 0:09:48.280 mean think did not entirely capitulate for a year, right, 0:09:48.360 --> 0:09:52.360 I mean it wasn't just immediately on in January twenty seventeen. Okay, 0:09:52.400 --> 0:09:56.200 whatever the guy says, I'll do, I'll suck whatever is required. 0:09:56.520 --> 0:09:59.120 So we'll see it is eight years later and they 0:09:59.160 --> 0:10:01.720 do know him no longer like wow, this guy won, 0:10:01.840 --> 0:10:05.960 I got whoh oh, So that they are aware, and 0:10:06.200 --> 0:10:09.240 some of them are leaving soon, some of all of 0:10:09.280 --> 0:10:12.800 them in six years. So he is not yet going 0:10:12.880 --> 0:10:14.520 to be called a lame duck, that is to say, 0:10:14.520 --> 0:10:16.319 Donald Trump. And you can come back and say, well, 0:10:16.360 --> 0:10:18.880 he may try to serve another term, let's leave that aside. 0:10:19.040 --> 0:10:20.679 He's gonna be a lame duck. He's gonna be out 0:10:20.720 --> 0:10:23.000 of there in four years, and in certainly in two years, 0:10:23.320 --> 0:10:25.120 people are going to start calling him lame duck. And 0:10:25.520 --> 0:10:28.240 here we are less than two weeks after the election, 0:10:28.720 --> 0:10:33.160 and the clown train is already going toward the cliff 0:10:33.320 --> 0:10:37.320 who We're barely there. So if this is a preface 0:10:37.640 --> 0:10:40.880 foreshadowing of what the administration going to be like. There's 0:10:40.880 --> 0:10:43.480 no reason to think it isn't this is not going 0:10:43.559 --> 0:10:46.120 to go well, and all these things that we thought, 0:10:46.320 --> 0:10:49.160 I mean, the story of thing phenomenon is, oh, this 0:10:49.200 --> 0:10:51.040 is going to kill him. Oh he said this about McCain. 0:10:51.080 --> 0:10:53.760 All's Oh this pen never does it never does. But 0:10:54.000 --> 0:10:57.920 we'll see if enough of them have enough courage to 0:10:58.160 --> 0:11:00.800 do this very very simple and obvious. I think in 0:11:00.840 --> 0:11:05.320 these three or four worst appointments, for instance, just for starters. 0:11:05.120 --> 0:11:07.640 Right, I mean I would also add, you know, for 0:11:07.720 --> 0:11:11.840 the people who are listening, who are like me, do 0:11:11.960 --> 0:11:16.800 not despair. Right. The federal government is an enormous entity. 0:11:17.200 --> 0:11:20.000 It has never been known for changing quickly. 0:11:20.520 --> 0:11:20.680 You know. 0:11:20.760 --> 0:11:23.800 My one bright spot here, believe it or not, is 0:11:23.840 --> 0:11:27.640 that these three appointments are so crazy because he is 0:11:27.720 --> 0:11:30.880 signaling that nothing here is going to be normal. Give 0:11:30.920 --> 0:11:33.480 me this thought experiment for a minute. Okay, if Trump 0:11:33.559 --> 0:11:38.280 had nominated Marco Rubio and then more normal Republicans but 0:11:38.320 --> 0:11:42.800 then quietly bullied them into doing insane things, it would 0:11:42.800 --> 0:11:46.000 have been much much harder to make the case that 0:11:46.040 --> 0:11:50.920 this stuff was insane. Like RFK junior taking over ATSs, Like, 0:11:51.240 --> 0:11:53.479 this is a person who does not believe in vaccines. 0:11:53.760 --> 0:11:58.120 Now he's taking over government science, right, Like this is 0:11:58.200 --> 0:12:02.000 going to be a thing that is very clearly what 0:12:02.120 --> 0:12:04.640 it is and not you know, like I go back 0:12:04.640 --> 0:12:09.080 to Justice Roberts. Right, Roberts cuts away at things in 0:12:09.240 --> 0:12:12.080 order to undermine them. Right, he says, you know, he 0:12:12.400 --> 0:12:17.560 undermines Citizens United, he undermines Roe v. Wade, he undermines 0:12:17.600 --> 0:12:20.160 you know, ultimately ends up. You can give as much 0:12:20.200 --> 0:12:22.960 money as you want to candidates, you know, so we 0:12:23.040 --> 0:12:27.400 have billion dollar presidential campaigns, and also we have Roe v. 0:12:27.520 --> 0:12:30.520 Wade eventually gets overturned. So that kind of stuff is 0:12:30.640 --> 0:12:35.680 much harder to explain to the American people than stuff 0:12:35.760 --> 0:12:38.439 like this guy doesn't believe in vaccines and now he's 0:12:38.480 --> 0:12:39.640 running government science. 0:12:39.880 --> 0:12:42.559 No, one hundred percent. And of course that is because 0:12:43.000 --> 0:12:46.440 several reasons, I mean, less consequentially is he likes the 0:12:46.480 --> 0:12:49.000 show he Donald Trump, So this is going to control 0:12:49.200 --> 0:12:53.000 the world. They're going to let's do it walls. There's that, 0:12:53.240 --> 0:12:55.959 but it's also really it is like Caligula saying to 0:12:56.000 --> 0:12:59.320 the center is no, literally, lick my feet, get down there, 0:12:59.520 --> 0:13:01.640 lick my feet. It's so much about that. And like 0:13:01.840 --> 0:13:04.360 Bobby Kennedy, who I have known for you know, fifty 0:13:04.440 --> 0:13:07.640 years and followed and written about for ten about his 0:13:07.840 --> 0:13:11.600 descent into conspiracy theory and vaccines are evil all that, 0:13:11.800 --> 0:13:14.000 I'll move on from him. But he has said many times, 0:13:14.000 --> 0:13:17.120 as he was being the anti vaccine guy the last 0:13:17.200 --> 0:13:22.040 twenty five years, that people like the Fauci's, the leading pediatricians, 0:13:22.160 --> 0:13:26.320 the leading vaccinologists, immunologists in America, should be behind bar 0:13:26.679 --> 0:13:29.160 and he said that's not hyperble, I mean it. They 0:13:29.160 --> 0:13:32.000 should be in throw away the keys, talking like Trump, 0:13:32.120 --> 0:13:34.880 you know, long before Trump was around as a president. 0:13:35.160 --> 0:13:37.160 And then last year, of course he says COVID nineteen 0:13:37.320 --> 0:13:40.960 was targeted to attack black people and Caucasians and that ALEXH. Konazzi, 0:13:41.040 --> 0:13:45.199 Jews and Chinese are are immute. This guy really making 0:13:45.240 --> 0:13:47.600 in charge of this shit anyway. The other thing I 0:13:47.640 --> 0:13:52.160 realized this week is the just brilliant, enduring truth of 0:13:52.200 --> 0:13:55.280 the maybe the two most famous lines as well that 0:13:55.520 --> 0:13:57.640 came out as he was running for president before he 0:13:57.640 --> 0:14:01.080 was president. But one is, of course, when you're a star, 0:14:01.480 --> 0:14:04.120 they let you do it. Well, he's showing that again. 0:14:04.440 --> 0:14:07.400 I'm a star, they let me do it. I can 0:14:07.440 --> 0:14:10.840 appoint Tulca Gabbert and Matt Gates and Pete Hegzeth and 0:14:10.880 --> 0:14:15.520 Bobby Kennedy to these jobs, these important crucial jobs in 0:14:15.559 --> 0:14:19.240 the American government, for which they are obviously and plainly 0:14:19.280 --> 0:14:21.320 not qualified, And I can stay in the middle of 0:14:21.400 --> 0:14:23.240 fifth I don't shoot somebody, and I wouldn't get loser 0:14:23.280 --> 0:14:26.200 the voters. It's well, he says, So these are the 0:14:26.200 --> 0:14:28.960 explanatory things, and he is never I mean again and 0:14:29.000 --> 0:14:31.600 again we say yep, uh huh, yep. This is a new, 0:14:31.680 --> 0:14:34.000 next level version of that. 0:14:34.400 --> 0:14:39.640 No exactly, and I think that is ultimately how we 0:14:39.800 --> 0:14:42.640 got here, right. I've been thinking a lot about like 0:14:42.800 --> 0:14:45.160 what I got wrong, you know, when I was like, 0:14:45.400 --> 0:14:47.880 she's gonna win with a mandate. One of the things 0:14:47.880 --> 0:14:51.240 that I think I got so wrong was this idea 0:14:51.800 --> 0:14:54.880 like Trump, he spends one hundred and eighty percent of 0:14:54.920 --> 0:14:58.800 his time doing pr right, so he's outward facing, he's 0:14:58.840 --> 0:15:02.120 doing interviews. Again, he's saying insane stuff, but it doesn't 0:15:02.120 --> 0:15:07.000 necessarily matter. And then Democrats elect a guy who does 0:15:07.120 --> 0:15:12.920 almost no interviews for whom boringness is the defense, and 0:15:13.000 --> 0:15:16.080 then he is unable to get coverage for all of 0:15:16.120 --> 0:15:21.520 the really I think great accomplishments of his administration. It 0:15:21.640 --> 0:15:23.800 just was sort of a snowball, like if you're going 0:15:23.840 --> 0:15:27.160 to run against Trump and again, hopefully Trump decides that 0:15:27.240 --> 0:15:30.320 his second term is the end of it and that 0:15:30.480 --> 0:15:32.280 he does not try to run for a third term, 0:15:32.280 --> 0:15:34.880 which you could certainly see him trying to do. I 0:15:34.960 --> 0:15:37.280 hate that I just said that, but you know that 0:15:37.400 --> 0:15:39.880 I'm really I mean, I hate that, but I do 0:15:40.160 --> 0:15:45.520 think Democrats right now have to start messaging members of Congress, 0:15:45.640 --> 0:15:48.640 senators need to get on. You know. Part of the 0:15:48.680 --> 0:15:53.320 only thing left that standing between us and total autocracy 0:15:54.080 --> 0:15:58.120 is these Democrats who don't have control of the federal government, 0:15:58.400 --> 0:16:00.360 but do have the ability to go on. 0:16:00.440 --> 0:16:03.760 Joe Rogan, Yes, exactly. Well, and the thing about, as 0:16:03.760 --> 0:16:07.000 you starkily put it, and it's true about Biden and 0:16:07.080 --> 0:16:12.080 the Democratic generally, the Democratic machines, for whatever sort of reasons, 0:16:12.280 --> 0:16:16.240 ineffectiveness at getting out look at what we've done. Look 0:16:16.280 --> 0:16:19.560 how great this is, as opposed to him being the 0:16:19.560 --> 0:16:21.840 news and doing whatever it takes to be you know, 0:16:22.080 --> 0:16:25.040 the story every day. It is the problem or one 0:16:25.040 --> 0:16:29.560 of the problems of how we've been and how especially. 0:16:29.680 --> 0:16:31.680 I mean, maybe maybe it will change it, Maybe that 0:16:31.760 --> 0:16:33.840 will change now because of the results of the selection 0:16:34.120 --> 0:16:36.120 that you understand. You have to be a friend. My 0:16:36.200 --> 0:16:39.920 brilliant wife, Van Kramer, when Biden actually became president four 0:16:40.040 --> 0:16:43.760 years ago, wrote a brilliant long memo to a good 0:16:43.760 --> 0:16:46.800 friend of ours who had been in the Obama administration 0:16:47.280 --> 0:16:50.480 in a very very high, you know, deputy cabinet position, saying, 0:16:50.600 --> 0:16:53.200 here's what they have to do. Trump knows how to 0:16:53.200 --> 0:16:55.200 make a show. We're not saying just you know, do 0:16:55.400 --> 0:16:58.520 crazy stuff, but like, here's some ways. You know, she 0:16:58.680 --> 0:17:01.960 was in television, no show business, and he said, yeah, 0:17:02.000 --> 0:17:04.119 this is brilliant, this is great. They're never going to 0:17:04.200 --> 0:17:08.240 do anything like this because they're basically still living in 0:17:08.240 --> 0:17:11.080 the nineteen nineties as though it's normal town. 0:17:11.280 --> 0:17:11.480 Right. 0:17:11.880 --> 0:17:14.040 That's one of the things that they have to figure 0:17:14.080 --> 0:17:16.640 out and get right, and maybe maybe now they will. 0:17:16.680 --> 0:17:19.720 The other thing you mentioned mandate is your mistakenness about 0:17:19.720 --> 0:17:21.719 that Kama Harris will be elected with the mandate. And 0:17:21.840 --> 0:17:23.720 you know, as I say about so many things, it 0:17:23.800 --> 0:17:27.720 was pretty to think. So the hyperbole of describing Trump's 0:17:27.840 --> 0:17:29.840 win lass to be ratchet out. He got it out 0:17:29.880 --> 0:17:32.520 of control. Yes, it's Donald Trump being lenched again. Oh 0:17:32.600 --> 0:17:37.440 my god. Sure. But in terms of historical margins of victory, 0:17:37.520 --> 0:17:40.159 which is his is now in the popular vote, or 0:17:40.200 --> 0:17:44.280 as we would call it any other country, the vote, 0:17:44.920 --> 0:17:46.840 it's one and a half percent and drop it. We'll 0:17:46.840 --> 0:17:49.359 see when the final million and a half votes in 0:17:49.400 --> 0:17:52.119 California how that goes. But where is that in the 0:17:52.240 --> 0:17:55.960 rank of all presidents who've ever won the popular vote, 0:17:55.960 --> 0:17:59.119 of whom they're fifty five, number fifty. That's where it is, 0:17:59.280 --> 0:18:02.760 number fifty to fifty five. Even in the electoral college margin, 0:18:02.880 --> 0:18:06.520 where of course Republicans including him are get this kick 0:18:06.800 --> 0:18:09.280 you know, this bonus still low. It's still in the 0:18:09.359 --> 0:18:13.760 lowest quarter of those ever. So it ate a landslide. 0:18:13.800 --> 0:18:17.080 It's bad, and he's bad and all that. I'm not no, 0:18:17.119 --> 0:18:19.919 but it's not a mandate. It's just important not to 0:18:19.960 --> 0:18:22.520 get that into our heads that, oh the Americans oken 0:18:22.600 --> 0:18:26.280 in this is it? No, it's two percent? You know, No. 0:18:26.440 --> 0:18:29.760 I agree, And that's a really good point, and I 0:18:29.800 --> 0:18:33.120 really appreciate you saying that, probably the most important point 0:18:33.160 --> 0:18:36.280 we have going for us part Anderson, if we don't 0:18:36.320 --> 0:18:39.960 get sent to Gitmo, will you please come back on 0:18:40.000 --> 0:18:40.840 my podcast. 0:18:41.040 --> 0:18:44.240 Well, whenever I have enough of a head of steam 0:18:44.560 --> 0:18:48.439 and things and do nothing doins me more than getting 0:18:48.520 --> 0:18:50.080 up at five point thirty in the morning, coming on. 0:18:50.280 --> 0:18:53.760 You're sorry, by the way, let the record show we 0:18:53.800 --> 0:18:55.680 started at eight o'clock. 0:18:56.680 --> 0:18:59.000 Well Pacific time, though, even though I'm in New York. 0:18:59.080 --> 0:19:02.800 Yeah, yes, you're right, you're at five am Pacific. 0:19:03.040 --> 0:19:05.480 I'm always delighted. And no, it's good for me because 0:19:05.520 --> 0:19:08.080 then I can have a whole work day now and 0:19:08.440 --> 0:19:10.080 instead of having coffee, I talk to you. 0:19:10.480 --> 0:19:13.119 Yes, all right, it's you and Lawrence are not early 0:19:13.160 --> 0:19:15.439 morning people. But let the record show I have pen 0:19:15.520 --> 0:19:18.439 up since six am. I really appreciate you. Thank you, 0:19:18.480 --> 0:19:20.400 Kurt Anderson. Please come back soon. 0:19:20.240 --> 0:19:20.840 My pleasure. 0:19:23.680 --> 0:19:27.440 Randy Winingarten is the president of the American Federation of Teachers. 0:19:28.080 --> 0:19:31.680 Welcome back to Fast Politics, Randy Winmarten. 0:19:32.080 --> 0:19:34.800 How are you holding up, my dear Mollie. 0:19:36.200 --> 0:19:36.880 I am in a. 0:19:36.880 --> 0:19:40.879 Period of quiet reflection or because it's me, loud reflection 0:19:41.680 --> 0:19:44.159 where I'm trying to figure out what I got wrong 0:19:44.760 --> 0:19:50.760 and try to figure out how to make sense of 0:19:51.240 --> 0:19:54.320 the stuff that I got wrong, learn from what you 0:19:54.320 --> 0:19:56.840 know my blind spots were, and just take as much 0:19:56.920 --> 0:19:59.119 information as possible. 0:19:59.440 --> 0:20:03.120 What about you, I'm doing the same thing. I mean, 0:20:03.119 --> 0:20:07.520 I was hoping against hope that Harris would win, but 0:20:08.119 --> 0:20:13.800 in diving into all of what happened, this was my fear. 0:20:14.400 --> 0:20:17.560 I want to make sure that we learned the right 0:20:17.960 --> 0:20:22.760 lessons out of it, as opposed to the finger pointing 0:20:23.000 --> 0:20:26.920 and the recriminations that one is seen. And I do 0:20:27.000 --> 0:20:32.240 feel like there's a lot of lessons learned that would 0:20:32.280 --> 0:20:37.560 actually be helpful not only in saving and then strengthening 0:20:37.600 --> 0:20:45.200 our democracy, but also in listening to what people were 0:20:45.320 --> 0:20:49.880 actually saying about their lives. And I think it is 0:20:50.119 --> 0:20:55.159 both a clarion call for not only both political parties, 0:20:55.520 --> 0:21:01.560 but for the civic leadership, the business leadership in the 0:21:01.840 --> 0:21:06.359 country and in the world about what work and families 0:21:06.440 --> 0:21:09.359 really need. And obviously I don't feel great about the 0:21:09.359 --> 0:21:13.439 results and about the chaos and everything that's about to 0:21:13.480 --> 0:21:16.200 happen to people and people's rights, but I do think 0:21:16.240 --> 0:21:19.640 that there is more and more and more. I am 0:21:19.760 --> 0:21:23.520 starting to see a through line that actually can be 0:21:23.640 --> 0:21:28.119 explained by a couple of the economic charts that I 0:21:28.119 --> 0:21:31.480 have seen in the last few days, including two of them. 0:21:31.760 --> 0:21:34.119 One was the Steve Ratner chart that he did in 0:21:34.200 --> 0:21:36.119 warning Joe you may have been on at the time. 0:21:36.280 --> 0:21:38.239 And the other is a chart that I think I 0:21:38.280 --> 0:21:42.040 saw from EPI or from Robert Rechent, not quite sure 0:21:42.080 --> 0:21:45.879 what the sources anymore. That chart basically said that the 0:21:46.520 --> 0:21:50.280 people who earned the least in this country voted for 0:21:50.359 --> 0:21:53.159 Donald Trump. And then the second chart, which I thought 0:21:53.280 --> 0:21:57.640 was equally both heartbreaking but also as instructive, is that 0:21:58.080 --> 0:22:02.040 people no longer make more more than their parents made. 0:22:02.080 --> 0:22:05.480 The promise of America, you know, has always been an 0:22:05.480 --> 0:22:09.000 economic one, much more than almost anything else. You know, 0:22:09.040 --> 0:22:12.119 It's been about freedom, but it's really been that. You know, 0:22:12.200 --> 0:22:15.480 you think America is going to be a country that 0:22:15.600 --> 0:22:20.080 has such great economic engines that every succeeding generation is 0:22:20.119 --> 0:22:22.520 going to do better than the one before it. And 0:22:22.800 --> 0:22:28.280 that promise has been broken. And I think that that frankly, 0:22:28.640 --> 0:22:31.959 the first party that actually is going to be able 0:22:32.440 --> 0:22:36.440 to both get fairness and growth, right, you know, economic 0:22:36.480 --> 0:22:38.200 fairness and economic growth. 0:22:38.280 --> 0:22:42.959 Right. There's a race between that success and whether or not, 0:22:43.359 --> 0:22:46.080