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Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff to Blow Your Mind from How Stuff

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Speaker 1: Works dot Com. Hey, you welcome to Stuff to Blow

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Speaker 1: your Mind. My name is Robert Lamb, I'm Christian Sea,

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Speaker 1: and I'm Joe McCormick. In today, we're coming at you

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Speaker 1: with some listener mail. That's right, Carney, our mail bot

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Speaker 1: is currently go undergoing routine self virus scanning, so he's

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Speaker 1: kind of in a dormant state, but he's still able

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Speaker 1: to print out listener mails, your listener mails first to

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Speaker 1: sort through and read. So he's just continuing to to

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Speaker 1: sport out this massive pile of a dot Matrix printer.

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Speaker 1: And guys, I know this is an inconvenience, but it

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Speaker 1: really does make sense because when Carney gets infected with malware,

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Speaker 1: it is a bad scene. Yeah. I actually heard that

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Speaker 1: somebody hacked into Carney through the Internet of Things in

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Speaker 1: order to commit a di DOS attack. Really yeah, against

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Speaker 1: what against what I believe is the targets Stuff to

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Speaker 1: Blow your Mind dot com. Yeah, they turned our own

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Speaker 1: listener mail robot against us. That's vile. Yeah, it's just

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Speaker 1: real despicable guys, these hackers, and not quite as well

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Speaker 1: as the people who sees the baby monitors but it's close,

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Speaker 1: all right. Well, well, without further ado, let's see what

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Speaker 1: we've got here. We haven't done one of these in

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Speaker 1: a few months, and we've received a lot of listener mail,

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Speaker 1: a ton, yeah, of some wonderful stuff, and sadly, you know,

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Speaker 1: we're not gonna be able to get to all of

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Speaker 1: it here, and we're not able to directly respond to

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Speaker 1: a lot of it. But we do appreciate all the

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Speaker 1: wonderful takes, all the wonderful tidbits, all the wonderful bits

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Speaker 1: of feedback that you send in on each and every week. Okay,

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Speaker 1: And first off, our listener, Kelly writes to us on

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Speaker 1: Facebook in response to our episode about being eaten by

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Speaker 1: a giant spider, And just a note on that episode,

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Speaker 1: We did have to publish that one twice because first

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Speaker 1: time it came out maybe that was during our di

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Speaker 1: Dos attack. I don't know, Uh, something happened with the publishing.

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Speaker 1: And so if you saw that episode show up twice, uh,

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Speaker 1: or if you had a problem with it the first time,

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Speaker 1: you might want to check that that second version of

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Speaker 1: it anyway, right, Uh, So, Kelly writes, Hi, guys, I

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Speaker 1: just listened to your giant spider episode. I was never

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Speaker 1: skittish with spiders. My friend even had the sweetest tarantula

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Speaker 1: that like to cuddle more than a puppy. Somehow I

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Speaker 1: doubt that, but okay, I was always the designated quote

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Speaker 1: spider remover of our family because I thought we had

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Speaker 1: a great symbiotic relationship. And Kelly, you are exactly right.

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Speaker 1: Humans and spiders peas in a pod. The we're friends.

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Speaker 1: They're not our enemies. But Kelly, Kelly does have a

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Speaker 1: little case of friendly fire to mention to us. Here,

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Speaker 1: Kelly writes about a decade ago, I woke up with

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Speaker 1: the left side of my face so swollen. Just by

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Speaker 1: looking out the corner of my eye, I could see

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Speaker 1: my cheek. I sleep stumbled into the bathroom to find

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Speaker 1: huge bloody sores from my forehead down to my nose.

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Speaker 1: I got an appointment of my doctors that day. He

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Speaker 1: informed me that I'd been attacked by a brown recluse

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Speaker 1: in my sleep, and also let me know that if

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Speaker 1: I hadn't come in so quickly, the venom would have

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Speaker 1: likely eaten through my skin and muscle and started to

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Speaker 1: ulcerate my skull. Wow, that sounds horrible. Months of medication later,

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Speaker 1: plus a few glycolic face peels to soften the scarring

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Speaker 1: from ulceration. I'm almost normal. I do refer to myself

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Speaker 1: as Scarface to give myself more street cred. By the way,

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Speaker 1: and we get some pictures, you can still see my

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Speaker 1: spider scars on my forehead and nose, although they're blessedly

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Speaker 1: just a fraction of the original sizes. Well, I hope

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Speaker 1: you out there listening will not take this as justification

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Speaker 1: for global spider panic. We still stand firmly against spider panic.

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Speaker 1: But if you can avoid being bitten on the face

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Speaker 1: by a brown recluse, that is something to to do.

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Speaker 1: I grew up in New England and that the brown

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Speaker 1: recluse was like always the um the scariest thing that

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Speaker 1: you could run into up there. Like we don't have

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Speaker 1: scorpions or you know, poisonous snakes or anything like that,

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Speaker 1: but about like a New Hampshire county with a shotgun.

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Speaker 1: Well those, yeah, I mean I guess technically, yeah, I

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Speaker 1: was always on the lookout with more than two legs?

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Speaker 1: Is the scar Yeah, is a brand reclusive problem down

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Speaker 1: here in the sound? Yeah, yeah, you could brown problem

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Speaker 1: if they do exist down here. Well, one, it only

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Speaker 1: takes one to be a problem, right, It really gets

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Speaker 1: in that whole scenario, like to to what extent is

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Speaker 1: it an actual problem, just to the perceived threat of

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Speaker 1: the brown. Yeah. For example, I I follow on Twitter

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Speaker 1: a spider researcher who named Catherine who I believe she

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Speaker 1: works out of Canada. But she does a whole thing

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Speaker 1: on Twitter that I've seen never do before, which is

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Speaker 1: just like hashtag not a brown recluse, which is going

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Speaker 1: through people's pictures that they put on Twitter and say, look,

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Speaker 1: I found a brown recluse in my house. And she's like,

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Speaker 1: that's a wolf spider. So you know, it's easy to

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Speaker 1: to get too worked up about a spider that's basically brown. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: I thought you were going to say, I follow spider

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Speaker 1: on Twitter. That would be great. I would love to

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Speaker 1: see a spider's Twitter account. It's just like it's all

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Speaker 1: fake news exactly. Okay, what else has Carney got for us? Well,

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Speaker 1: we received an awful lot of email related to our

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Speaker 1: Only Child Syndrome podcast episode. Yeah, we got there was

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Speaker 1: a lot of mails, So thank you all for sending that.

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Speaker 1: A lot of people telling us their experiences being an

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Speaker 1: only child, or being a parent of an only child.

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Speaker 1: There were so many that we couldn't possibly read them all,

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Speaker 1: but we did pull one or two for today's episode. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and this one that I'm about to read actually comes

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Speaker 1: from someone who has some experience with the one child

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Speaker 1: policy in China. Okay, so this bit of listener mail

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Speaker 1: here is from Betty. Betty rights in and says, Hi, guys,

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Speaker 1: just listen to the Only Child Syndrome podcast, which was great,

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Speaker 1: and I thought i'd share some experiences from growing up

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Speaker 1: in China as an only child in the nineties. Growing up,

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Speaker 1: we all knew the one child policy was out of

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Speaker 1: the norm from a global and historical standpoint, but since

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Speaker 1: almost every kid we ever met was an only child,

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Speaker 1: not having siblings just felt like the norm and very

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Speaker 1: few people found it weird. And of course, my friends

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Speaker 1: and acquaintances from school ranged in personalities just like everyone

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Speaker 1: else in the world. I can't speak for other only children,

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Speaker 1: but I was raised in a way that would have

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Speaker 1: been pretty difficult to result in spoiled bratness. I had

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Speaker 1: to do many household chores every day from age six

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Speaker 1: to moving out of college. I was a default laborer

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Speaker 1: for all home reno and home improvement projects. Renovation not

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Speaker 1: not going to reno. Uh. If I wanted to buy

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Speaker 1: anything like toys or games, it was limited to my

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Speaker 1: Chinese New Year money, which was like ten to twenty

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Speaker 1: bucks a year, or I had to do extra chores

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Speaker 1: to earn it. When I turned six, team my parents

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Speaker 1: also told me to get a job. In addition, it

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Speaker 1: was mandatory to do well in school. Of course, at

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Speaker 1: the time, I did not appreciate doing all those things,

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Speaker 1: but in retrospect it kind of worked out. By the

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Speaker 1: time I moved out for college, I knew how to cook, clean, dow, laundry,

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Speaker 1: and all kinds of other household tests. I knew how

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Speaker 1: to get a job, got a job, and already had

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Speaker 1: money saved up from it. And I was the go

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Speaker 1: to handy person my dorm because I was one of

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Speaker 1: the only few, one of the few people who knew

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Speaker 1: how to use power tools and fixed broken equipment. I

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Speaker 1: live in Canada now, but whenever anyone discovers that I

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Speaker 1: am an only child, their first reaction is, oh, I

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Speaker 1: would have never guessed. But from what I can tell,

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Speaker 1: it's nearly impossible to guess if a person as an

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Speaker 1: only child anyway, since who they are largely depends on

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Speaker 1: how they were raised and what kind of environment they

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Speaker 1: grew up in with things have been different if I

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Speaker 1: had siblings, It's possible, but my parents wanted to raise

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Speaker 1: me as a capable, hard working, independent person, and there's

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Speaker 1: no reason they wouldn't have wanted the same for all

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Speaker 1: their children if they had had the opportunity to do more.

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Speaker 1: Thanks again for the great podcast, Betty. Yeah, that definitely

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Speaker 1: thank you, first of all, Betty for sharing the experience

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Speaker 1: with us. But that seems to line up with what

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Speaker 1: we uh, the conclusions we came to in that episode,

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Speaker 1: which is it seems like only child syndrome is not

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Speaker 1: a psychological issue. Uh, it's more of like a sociological

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Speaker 1: factors how you were raised, what type of home you're

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Speaker 1: raised in, what tree you were raised in, what the

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Speaker 1: norms were there. You know, everybody I know who fits

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Speaker 1: the stereotype of the only child is actually an oldest child. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: I don't think I mentioned that on that episode, but yeah,

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Speaker 1: I have the same experience. Yeah, yeah, the the episode.

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Speaker 1: In the episode, we explore the idea that only children

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Speaker 1: are spoiled or they're lonely. I mean all the various ideas,

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Speaker 1: they just won't go away culturally despite all of the

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Speaker 1: evidence to the contrary for like over a hundred years now,

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Speaker 1: because of just that one guys bad methodology and a

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Speaker 1: psychological report. Yeah, but this is a great bit of

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Speaker 1: listener feedback though, because it it highlighted both the just

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Speaker 1: just the the only child aspect as well as the

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Speaker 1: one child's policy a bit. I think it's always interesting

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Speaker 1: to get a different perspective on that. Yeah. So this

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Speaker 1: next letter comes from someone who wants to talk to

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Speaker 1: us about an episode from I think it's over a

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Speaker 1: year go, but this is a really interesting message, so

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Speaker 1: I wanted to address it now. It's from the episode

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Speaker 1: that Robert and I did on the Unlanguaged Mine and

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Speaker 1: Feral Children. Uh, and if you haven't heard that, please

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Speaker 1: go back and listen to it. We had I wouldn't

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Speaker 1: say fun with that episode, but it was very educational

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Speaker 1: for us learning about this sort of history behind that,

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Speaker 1: and we got a lot of good feedback about Yeah. Yeah, so, uh,

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Speaker 1: she says, Hello, Robert and Christian. My name is Candice.

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Speaker 1: I just recently discovered your podcast and have been going

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Speaker 1: through the archives. I stumbled upon and listened to the

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Speaker 1: two episodes titled The un Language Mind. I found the

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Speaker 1: information you presented and your perspectives fascinating. Those two episodes

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Speaker 1: resonated with me because I am a teacher of the

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Speaker 1: deaf and heart of hearing and have come into contact

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Speaker 1: with Unfortunately, multiple students born into hearing homes without access

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Speaker 1: to American Sign language. Several of these students resulted in developmental, social, behavioral,

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Speaker 1: and academic delays because of the lack of language. One

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Speaker 1: student in particular, who I have been working with for

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Speaker 1: the past three years, is the closest I have come

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Speaker 1: to a feral child. He was not locked away in

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Speaker 1: a room, but he did miss the critical periods for

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Speaker 1: learning language. When he entered the school system in kindergarten,

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Speaker 1: it was clear that he had no language, no respect

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Speaker 1: for social norms or rules, or any desire to communicate

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Speaker 1: with other humans in a truly meaningful way. To communicate

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Speaker 1: his needs, he resorted to pointing, mimicking, gesturing, and violence.

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Speaker 1: Multiple other team members and myself have been punched, kicked,

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Speaker 1: cut bitten, scratched, and had our hair pulled by this student.

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Speaker 1: He has thrown feces at our staff and urinated on

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Speaker 1: classroom floors intentionally. However, with intense language, academic, and social intervention,

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Speaker 1: the student has improved and matured by leaps and bounds.

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Speaker 1: He is now functioning in a classroom with typically hearing

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Speaker 1: peers while using an a s L interpreter. He is

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Speaker 1: still learning to express himself in a s L and

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Speaker 1: is using two to four word phrases. He now values

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Speaker 1: relationships with adults and peers and under dance how to

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Speaker 1: nurture and keep those relationships, and is currently eight years old.

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Speaker 1: Thank you for shedding light on this difficult subject and

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Speaker 1: informing the public of a humans dire need for language.

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Speaker 1: So that's really interesting to me because I know it's

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Speaker 1: been a while since we did those episodes, but I

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Speaker 1: don't remember coming across specific examples of children, uh, in

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Speaker 1: present day scenarios where they were they unless they were

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Speaker 1: like totally neglected, but in this situation because they're deaf,

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Speaker 1: it makes it even more difficult. Yeah, it's been a

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Speaker 1: long time since we we looked at the research to

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Speaker 1: data there, but yeah, I don't remember a specific case

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Speaker 1: like that. Yeah, but this was really fascinating. Thank you

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Speaker 1: for sharing it with this Candice and I'm really glad

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Speaker 1: to hear that this this kid is is getting so

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Speaker 1: it sounds like world class treatment and help so that

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Speaker 1: he can adapt better with his peers. It is amazing.

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Speaker 1: You know. One thing I actually recently was thinking about

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Speaker 1: your episode on The Unlanguaged Mind because of a movie

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Speaker 1: I just saw. They came out. Did y'all see Arrival yet? Yes?

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Speaker 1: In Arrival they we're not talking about the one with

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Speaker 1: was it with the Sheen in it? Right? Not? Martin.

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Speaker 1: Charlie Sheen was in a movie called The Arrival. I

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Speaker 1: know you're talking about heron silver in it that I've seen.

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Speaker 1: There's actually two of those. Those are about the aliens

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Speaker 1: with the backward legs. This is just Arrival without of

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Speaker 1: the in front of right, the one with Amy Adams Whittaker. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it's about It's a movie about language in a lot

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Speaker 1: of ways. And they discussed the sapire warf hypothesis, which

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Speaker 1: actually plays into the plot. I don't want to give

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Speaker 1: anything away, but they talked about the sapiar warf hypothesis

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Speaker 1: and I was like, oh, yes, the un language Mind.

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Speaker 1: Arrival is a movie that I feel like is made

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Speaker 1: for us and for listeners who like stuff to blow

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Speaker 1: your mind. Like it's like such a great sci fi

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Speaker 1: movie that really latches onto real world concepts and we're

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Speaker 1: dealing with ideas, Yeah, and works them really well into

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Speaker 1: the story. I really enjoyed it was. Yeah, I was

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Speaker 1: so impressed. The one based on the novel by Ted Sang. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it's a short story, I think, yes, yeah, yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: you'd love it. You gotta check it out. Cool, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it's on our on our list, So I will, I will.

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Speaker 1: I definitely look forward to seeing that one because I

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Speaker 1: actually I am just finishing reading finally The Three Body Problem,

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Speaker 1: which which deals with some similar themes, you know, communication

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Speaker 1: with an alien uh species and what the what what

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Speaker 1: the what the the the ramifications of that communication might be.

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Speaker 1: In the meantime, we should all go back and watch

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Speaker 1: those Charlie Sheen movies. I didn't realize there's more than one.

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Speaker 1: Should we watched The Wraith? Did that have Charlie Sheen

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Speaker 1: in it? I don't know, but that is but The Arrival, Wow,

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Speaker 1: that movie had an effect on me. Yes, The Wraith,

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Speaker 1: it does have Charlie Sheen and I just looked it up. Okay,

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Speaker 1: he plays like a guy. I think he gets killed

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Speaker 1: in a drag racing accident or something, and he comes

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Speaker 1: back for it. Is it Soultaker? Essentially? It sounds very

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Speaker 1: soul Taker. Soul Taker might be a remake of the

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Speaker 1: Wraith sense like, we need to do some coverage on

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Speaker 1: both of these. This this reminds me, Actually, it's a

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Speaker 1: good opportunity to point out casually that we've been doing

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Speaker 1: some Facebook Live experiments where we've been showing movie trailers

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Speaker 1: of movies related to the episodes that we're doing that week.

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Speaker 1: So if you're on Facebook and you have time to

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Speaker 1: watch Facebook Live, you can hear us talk. You guys

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Speaker 1: did one about spiders, right, Giant spider movies. That was

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Speaker 1: the the second one. And we're a bit disrupted by

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Speaker 1: various holiday occurrence is right now, but we'll hopefully get

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Speaker 1: right back into the back of the regular routain with that. Yeah, Okay,

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Speaker 1: we're gonna take a quick break and when we come back,

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Speaker 1: we will hear from our listener Jen. With the holidays

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Speaker 1: almost here, you don't have time to go to the

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Speaker 1: post office traffic parking. It's gonna be packed and everyone's

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Speaker 1: gonna be mailing off gifts and packages, so you need

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Speaker 1: to do what we do. You need to go to

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Speaker 1: stamps dot com instead. Go with stamps dot com. You

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Speaker 1: can avoid all the hassle of going to the post

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Speaker 1: office during the busy holiday season. Everything you can do

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Speaker 1: desk instead. By in print Official you US postage using

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Speaker 1: your own printer and computer print postage for any letter

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Speaker 1: or package the instant you need it, and then the

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Speaker 1: mail person just picks it up and you're good to go.

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Speaker 1: It's easy and it's convenient. Here at how stuff works

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Speaker 1: to send out the odd bit of merchandise or correspondence,

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Speaker 1: and we want you to try it out as well.

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Speaker 1: So right now, go to stamps dot com and use

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Speaker 1: our promo code stuff That's Stuff. For this special offer,

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Speaker 1: So don't wait. Go to stamps dot com right now

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Speaker 1: before you do anything else, click on the microphone at

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Speaker 1: the top of the homepage and type in stuff that

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Speaker 1: stamps dot com inter stuff and start mailing things. So

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Speaker 1: our listener Jin got in touch with us over Facebook,

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Speaker 1: and she's responding to our episode. The episode Robert and

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Speaker 1: I did a while back about Undead Jenes, so brief

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Speaker 1: refresher from that episode. Some researchers made public a paper

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Speaker 1: on a pre publication server claiming to show that some

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Speaker 1: certain genes in the bodies of dead animals were still

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Speaker 1: transcribe being RNA after the organisms died, meaning that you'd

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Speaker 1: have whole body death right organismal death. The organism is dead,

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Speaker 1: but on the molecular level, some life, or some version

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Speaker 1: of life is still going on. The genes are still

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Speaker 1: encoding for for RNA. And so Jen gets in touch

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Speaker 1: with us about this. She says, hey, guys, I love

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Speaker 1: your podcast and finally had time to listen to last

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Speaker 1: week's Undead Jeans episode. As a molecular biologist, I was

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Speaker 1: really excited for an episode right in my wheelhouse. There

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Speaker 1: were a couple of things that stuck out to me

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Speaker 1: while listening that made me go hunt down the paper.

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Speaker 1: I assume you left out some detail to keep things

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Speaker 1: more accessible to amateur nerds versus those of us who

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Speaker 1: do things for a living. But I noticed in the

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Speaker 1: paper that they have left some glaring holes. I'd even

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Speaker 1: venture to guess that these holes could be the reason

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Speaker 1: while we're reading the article from a depository depository and

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Speaker 1: not a high impact journal. But I digress. The main

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Speaker 1: point I wanted to make, while acknowledging that you, as

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Speaker 1: the host, may already be aware, is that RNA is

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Speaker 1: a extremely sensitive to degradation. The notion that you can

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Speaker 1: plunge a fish into an icy death pool and then

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Speaker 1: just PLoP it back into some normal seventy ish degree

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Speaker 1: fahrenheit tank and then come back days later and get

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Speaker 1: good quality RNA is literally unbelievable to me. Have you

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Speaker 1: ever had a fish go belly up and not noticed

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Speaker 1: right away? I don't know if I remember fish going

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Speaker 1: belly up? Do you guys keep fish tanks right now?

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Speaker 1: But luckily, so far, so good, nothing's died. So I

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Speaker 1: had that experience as a kid. Yeah, Jen says, it

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Speaker 1: gets stink stinky fast. Do you agree? Yeah, my dad

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Speaker 1: collected like exotic fish in a tank. Yeah, she's right,

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Speaker 1: all right. So she says, of course, the authors did

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Speaker 1: not give any data about the RNA integrity, and she

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Speaker 1: says a standard thing would be a one to tend

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Speaker 1: scoring system. So she says, my guess is that what

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Speaker 1: they are seeing as an upregulation, and that was their

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Speaker 1: term of, you know, RNA transcription appearing to take place.

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Speaker 1: So my guess is what they're seeing is as an

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Speaker 1: upregulation of new genes. May actually be transcripts that are

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Speaker 1: for some reason fairly stable but in low abundance, so

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Speaker 1: they're missed in freshly dead samples but seem to appear

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Speaker 1: in longer dead samples only because more abundant transcripts have

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Speaker 1: fallen away due to degradation. So does that make sense

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Speaker 1: what she's saying, Like, there's all this RNA there, some

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Speaker 1: are not very common but fairly stable. When you test

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Speaker 1: the organism right after death, you don't see a bunch

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Speaker 1: of these. But then when all the other RNA decays

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Speaker 1: and these fairly stable RNA molecules are left, that's what

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Speaker 1: you have left. And it makes it look like more

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Speaker 1: of this is being created after death. So it sounds

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Speaker 1: like more research is required. Yes, uh, And she says

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Speaker 1: it could be that or some other factors she hasn't considered,

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Speaker 1: but anyway, she says, I know that their claim is

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Speaker 1: that these are truly new RNA molecules, so degradation is

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Speaker 1: not a factor. But that is a huge leap for

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Speaker 1: which they do not provide support. I just wanted to

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Speaker 1: add a large dose of skepticism on top of the

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Speaker 1: healthy bit we should always have. This concept is still fascinating,

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Speaker 1: but the study is too flawed to add to the

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Speaker 1: conversation in a meaningful way. Anyway, Love what you guys

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Speaker 1: are doing, and always look forward to what you have

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Speaker 1: in store next. Have a great day, Jen, Thank you

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Speaker 1: so much. Jen. This is the kind of email I

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Speaker 1: love to get because it's from an actual expert who

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Speaker 1: has some some direct knowledge of the kinds of research

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Speaker 1: that we covered in the episode. So uh, those of

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Speaker 1: you out there who heard that episode, please take Jen's

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Speaker 1: considerations into into consideration. I wasn't when when thinking about

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Speaker 1: this research. I wasn't on that episode, but I I

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Speaker 1: love UH messages like this because I think it's so

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Speaker 1: important for us to critically evaluate the um the sources

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Speaker 1: that we're bringing into the episodes that we do and

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Speaker 1: and some people have asked us this before, and it's

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Speaker 1: worth reminding we are not experts in these fields that

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Speaker 1: we talk about, right. We we do the research, we

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Speaker 1: immerse ourselves in it, and we try to bring it

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Speaker 1: to you the listener in the best most accessible way possible.

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Speaker 1: But we're not always able to, for instance, like a

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Speaker 1: judge whether or not the r N a methodology of

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Speaker 1: this study. Right, we don't have the knowledge of a

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Speaker 1: working microbiology exactly. Yeah, and so I really like to

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Speaker 1: hear that kind of feedback. All right. We have another

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Speaker 1: bit of listener mail here. This one comes to us

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Speaker 1: from Kristen and she is responding to our episode on

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Speaker 1: a Chinese practice of ghost marriages though the right of

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Speaker 1: minghome that we discussed. Yeah, yeah, that was an interesting episode. Uh,

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Speaker 1: Chinese and also sometimes Japanese practice. We we got a

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Speaker 1: lot of email about it. Uh. One in particular that

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Speaker 1: I remember that's not on here was from a man

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Speaker 1: in Taiwan letting us know that the red envelope practice

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Speaker 1: that we mentioned, he was totally unaware of it, yet

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Speaker 1: his wife, who was also Taiwanese, was aware of it. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: We also heard from a few different people who are

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Speaker 1: in the Church of Latter day Saints because we discussed

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Speaker 1: the celestial marriage practice a little bit and its comparisons

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Speaker 1: to this, uh, this Chinese practice of ghost marriages. And

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Speaker 1: that's where this particular listener comes in. She writes it

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Speaker 1: and says, I really love the recent episode about the

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Speaker 1: Chinese practice of ghost marriages. The entire time, I listener

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Speaker 1: was absolutely fascinated. When I got to the end of

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Speaker 1: the podcast and you mentioned, uh, the Church of Latter

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Speaker 1: Day Say It's my eyes almost rolled out of my head.

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Speaker 1: I'm a recent transplant to Salt Lake City from Washington,

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Speaker 1: d C. I'm Jewish, and it has been incredibly difficult

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Speaker 1: to adjust a living in the city that is the

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Speaker 1: seat of the letter the Church of Latter Day Saints.

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Speaker 1: So the uh the writer here Christian. She goes on

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Speaker 1: to talk about how essentially by thinking about this uh,

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Speaker 1: this Chinese model and then the and the some of

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Speaker 1: the ideas wrapped up in UH in the in the

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Speaker 1: right of man hun, it forced her to reconsider these

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Speaker 1: practices that were much more immediate and some of the

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Speaker 1: belief systems who were much more immediate um in utah uh.

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Speaker 1: She she summarized and says, when I got to the

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Speaker 1: part of the podcast discuss saying uh the LDS, I

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Speaker 1: initially rolled my eyes and scoffed. I began to write

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Speaker 1: it off as quote, just some other weird things that

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Speaker 1: Mormons do unquote and as the podcast ended, well it

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00:22:10,000 --> 00:22:13,199
Speaker 1: struck me. I sat there an hour, fascinated, open minded,

429
00:22:13,440 --> 00:22:16,720
Speaker 1: and ultimately understood the purpose of ghost marriages and had

430
00:22:16,800 --> 00:22:18,760
Speaker 1: a respect for the practice. But as soon as the

431
00:22:19,119 --> 00:22:22,560
Speaker 1: word Mormon was mentioned, I became dismissive and closed minded,

432
00:22:22,800 --> 00:22:25,120
Speaker 1: ready to let my own bias get in the way

433
00:22:25,240 --> 00:22:29,320
Speaker 1: of furthering my understanding. And I really analyzed, analyzed why

434
00:22:29,480 --> 00:22:32,840
Speaker 1: that was an inappropriate reaction to have. How could I

435
00:22:32,960 --> 00:22:35,080
Speaker 1: sit there and listen to the entire show with an

436
00:22:35,119 --> 00:22:38,679
Speaker 1: open mind but justify being so dismissive at the end.

437
00:22:39,160 --> 00:22:41,199
Speaker 1: I appreciate that you do a podcast that is all

438
00:22:41,200 --> 00:22:43,520
Speaker 1: about information, and you do a great job of pushing

439
00:22:43,560 --> 00:22:46,000
Speaker 1: your audience to open their minds and hearts to other

440
00:22:46,119 --> 00:22:49,800
Speaker 1: cultures and beliefs. I believe you guys initiated and epiphany

441
00:22:49,880 --> 00:22:53,480
Speaker 1: in me I really needed to have and ultimately will

442
00:22:53,560 --> 00:22:55,879
Speaker 1: help help me as I continue to learn about the

443
00:22:56,000 --> 00:22:58,840
Speaker 1: ld S faith and enjoy living in this beautiful melting

444
00:22:58,880 --> 00:23:00,960
Speaker 1: pot of a city. That again, for the great show

445
00:23:01,080 --> 00:23:04,000
Speaker 1: and for leading by example on being open minded. High

446
00:23:04,080 --> 00:23:08,320
Speaker 1: fives Kristen. I really appreciate that. Um I especially I

447
00:23:08,480 --> 00:23:11,040
Speaker 1: guess like something that's worth highlighting for the listeners is like,

448
00:23:11,320 --> 00:23:14,560
Speaker 1: sometimes we approach these episodes and maybe have our own

449
00:23:15,080 --> 00:23:19,399
Speaker 1: either misconceptions about cultures or we're just totally unfamiliar with

450
00:23:19,440 --> 00:23:23,360
Speaker 1: them because their lifestyles outside of our territory. I guess

451
00:23:23,359 --> 00:23:25,040
Speaker 1: it's the best way to put it. And for this

452
00:23:25,200 --> 00:23:28,080
Speaker 1: episode in particular, I was really fortunate in that I

453
00:23:28,480 --> 00:23:31,920
Speaker 1: have a friend who is who is Mormon, who's a

454
00:23:31,960 --> 00:23:34,480
Speaker 1: member of the Church of Latter day Saints. He really

455
00:23:34,600 --> 00:23:37,359
Speaker 1: role modeled for me that there were a lot of

456
00:23:37,480 --> 00:23:41,120
Speaker 1: misconceptions about that faith, and so when we approached this episode,

457
00:23:41,160 --> 00:23:42,560
Speaker 1: I just thought of him in the back of my

458
00:23:42,680 --> 00:23:45,200
Speaker 1: head the whole time, and and and how he would

459
00:23:45,200 --> 00:23:47,399
Speaker 1: approach talking to me about it, and that was very

460
00:23:47,440 --> 00:23:49,760
Speaker 1: helpful to me. So it's always it's always nice to

461
00:23:49,800 --> 00:23:51,760
Speaker 1: have people in your life like that. But then again,

462
00:23:51,800 --> 00:23:54,680
Speaker 1: when we approach episodes like this another one we're gonna

463
00:23:54,680 --> 00:23:56,800
Speaker 1: talk about later, we Robert and I did the episode

464
00:23:56,840 --> 00:24:00,040
Speaker 1: on combat stems in the military. I don't have of

465
00:24:00,119 --> 00:24:03,880
Speaker 1: any experience in the military, and it's it's completely outside

466
00:24:03,920 --> 00:24:09,080
Speaker 1: of my uh lifestyle experience, but it was really nice

467
00:24:09,119 --> 00:24:11,560
Speaker 1: to hear that people who were in the military and

468
00:24:12,040 --> 00:24:15,719
Speaker 1: did have experiences using these drugs in the field. Uh,

469
00:24:15,920 --> 00:24:18,640
Speaker 1: seemed to resonate with what we what we talked about

470
00:24:18,640 --> 00:24:21,320
Speaker 1: in that episode. Yes, so much of what we cover here,

471
00:24:21,480 --> 00:24:24,680
Speaker 1: especially when it is a psychological or cultural in nature.

472
00:24:24,800 --> 00:24:27,920
Speaker 1: You know, it's it's about it's about putting trying to

473
00:24:27,960 --> 00:24:31,880
Speaker 1: put ourselves in another person's worldview and another person since

474
00:24:31,960 --> 00:24:35,320
Speaker 1: experience and uh, and that can that can be challenging

475
00:24:35,320 --> 00:24:37,040
Speaker 1: at times. But I also think that's that's one of

476
00:24:37,160 --> 00:24:40,000
Speaker 1: the core mission statements of the show, right, But it's

477
00:24:40,080 --> 00:24:46,000
Speaker 1: about finding ways to open ourselves up to alternate modes

478
00:24:46,600 --> 00:24:51,560
Speaker 1: of of sense experience and of end of reality perception. Um.

479
00:24:52,040 --> 00:24:55,760
Speaker 1: You know, we're a science podcast, but uh, but but

480
00:24:55,840 --> 00:24:57,760
Speaker 1: I feel like that's a core aspect. Ever, Like, if

481
00:24:58,280 --> 00:25:00,480
Speaker 1: you know, we're called stuff to Blow the Mind, Blow

482
00:25:00,560 --> 00:25:02,919
Speaker 1: your Mind, I feel like if I could change the title,

483
00:25:02,960 --> 00:25:05,959
Speaker 1: it would probably be more like stuff to expand your

484
00:25:06,000 --> 00:25:08,919
Speaker 1: mind or a slow motion explosion of the mind, rather

485
00:25:09,000 --> 00:25:11,680
Speaker 1: than just sort of the the pop that the name implies.

486
00:25:12,200 --> 00:25:15,920
Speaker 1: I definitely agree. Um, And to that point. Actually, we

487
00:25:16,080 --> 00:25:19,920
Speaker 1: received another email that's related to that episode about ghost marriages,

488
00:25:20,000 --> 00:25:22,840
Speaker 1: and this time it was from somebody who belongs to

489
00:25:22,920 --> 00:25:25,960
Speaker 1: the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. His

490
00:25:26,080 --> 00:25:27,560
Speaker 1: name is Michael, and he says, hey, guys, I just

491
00:25:27,640 --> 00:25:29,720
Speaker 1: finished listening to the episode on ghost marriages, and I

492
00:25:29,760 --> 00:25:32,840
Speaker 1: found it fascinating. I've never heard of this practice before

493
00:25:32,880 --> 00:25:35,400
Speaker 1: your episode. I belong to the Church of Jesus Christ

494
00:25:35,400 --> 00:25:37,320
Speaker 1: of Latter Day Saints, and I want to applaud your

495
00:25:37,359 --> 00:25:41,720
Speaker 1: accurate description of celestial marriages. An interesting point about ceilings

496
00:25:41,880 --> 00:25:44,320
Speaker 1: is that they are only performed in elds temples like

497
00:25:44,400 --> 00:25:47,800
Speaker 1: the one near you. He means, us in Sandy Springs, Georgia.

498
00:25:47,920 --> 00:25:50,280
Speaker 1: So for those of you who aren't from the Atlanta era,

499
00:25:50,400 --> 00:25:53,520
Speaker 1: Sandy Springs is a suburb that's what north of the

500
00:25:53,600 --> 00:25:56,359
Speaker 1: city by about thirty minutes, he says. A temple is

501
00:25:56,400 --> 00:25:59,200
Speaker 1: a building that is not open for worship on Sunday.

502
00:25:59,320 --> 00:26:01,840
Speaker 1: It is only open during specific hours of the week.

503
00:26:02,080 --> 00:26:04,960
Speaker 1: And we believe that ordinances may be performed for those

504
00:26:05,000 --> 00:26:08,000
Speaker 1: who have died as well as the living. We believe

505
00:26:08,119 --> 00:26:10,480
Speaker 1: that those who have died then have the opportunity to

506
00:26:10,560 --> 00:26:13,200
Speaker 1: accept the ordinance performed on their behalf by those who

507
00:26:13,240 --> 00:26:15,480
Speaker 1: are alive. That is a reason that our church is

508
00:26:15,560 --> 00:26:19,280
Speaker 1: big on doing family history and provide services such as

509
00:26:19,359 --> 00:26:21,719
Speaker 1: He lists a website here called family search dot org

510
00:26:21,960 --> 00:26:24,920
Speaker 1: in order to learn about our ancestors and perform ordinances

511
00:26:25,000 --> 00:26:27,439
Speaker 1: for all who did not have an opportunity to perform

512
00:26:27,480 --> 00:26:29,680
Speaker 1: them in this life. It's an amazing topic. I would

513
00:26:29,720 --> 00:26:31,760
Speaker 1: be happy to answer any questions that you have about

514
00:26:31,840 --> 00:26:34,080
Speaker 1: this practice. I enjoy the show. Thank you for the

515
00:26:34,119 --> 00:26:36,200
Speaker 1: information that you are able to beam to my mind

516
00:26:36,280 --> 00:26:39,119
Speaker 1: as I commute to and from work. If only we

517
00:26:39,200 --> 00:26:42,480
Speaker 1: could literally use beams, well, we might get there soon.

518
00:26:42,640 --> 00:26:44,959
Speaker 1: I don't know. It's some new Uh. Can we use

519
00:26:45,040 --> 00:26:47,520
Speaker 1: em drives? Now that that's been announced, can we start

520
00:26:47,560 --> 00:26:50,960
Speaker 1: beaming information to people's brains with them drives? Speaking of

521
00:26:51,080 --> 00:26:54,280
Speaker 1: being critical of research, that's the thing that I ever

522
00:26:54,400 --> 00:26:56,720
Speaker 1: end up talking about that. I'll be very curious to

523
00:26:56,760 --> 00:26:59,159
Speaker 1: say what skeptical scientists say in response. So, now that

524
00:26:59,240 --> 00:27:02,320
Speaker 1: the md I have paper has been published, Yeah, well,

525
00:27:02,640 --> 00:27:05,440
Speaker 1: I just wanted to thank Michael um I think for

526
00:27:05,560 --> 00:27:07,200
Speaker 1: both Robert and I going into that. I mean, we

527
00:27:07,359 --> 00:27:11,120
Speaker 1: researched that practice, but certainly we had not experienced it before,

528
00:27:11,200 --> 00:27:13,119
Speaker 1: so we were doing our best to try to represent it.

529
00:27:13,200 --> 00:27:18,439
Speaker 1: And it's encouraging to hear that we we didn't offend anybody. Yeah, alright,

530
00:27:18,440 --> 00:27:20,600
Speaker 1: we're gonna take a second break, and when we come back,

531
00:27:20,680 --> 00:27:24,840
Speaker 1: we're going to dive into more listener mail riches. Brought

532
00:27:24,880 --> 00:27:29,680
Speaker 1: to us, of course by Carney. Hi. I'm Lauren Vogelbauma,

533
00:27:29,720 --> 00:27:33,280
Speaker 1: host of the new House to works Now podcast. Every week,

534
00:27:33,359 --> 00:27:35,960
Speaker 1: I'll be bringing you three stories from our team about

535
00:27:36,000 --> 00:27:39,440
Speaker 1: the weird and wondrous developments we've seen in science, technology,

536
00:27:39,520 --> 00:27:43,720
Speaker 1: and culture. Fresh episodes will be out every Monday on iTunes, Spotify,

537
00:27:43,920 --> 00:27:51,960
Speaker 1: Google Play Music, and everywhere else that fine podcasts are found. Carney,

538
00:27:52,000 --> 00:27:57,760
Speaker 1: what have you got for us next? Oh? Well, it

539
00:27:57,880 --> 00:28:01,440
Speaker 1: looks like we are getting some of the massive mail

540
00:28:01,480 --> 00:28:04,080
Speaker 1: bag that we got in response to the episode Robert

541
00:28:04,119 --> 00:28:07,640
Speaker 1: and I did on Fire. Oh yes, yes, World before Fire.

542
00:28:07,720 --> 00:28:09,639
Speaker 1: So Robert and I did a couple of episodes on

543
00:28:09,800 --> 00:28:13,119
Speaker 1: Fire about how sort of the conditions on Earth, the

544
00:28:13,160 --> 00:28:17,040
Speaker 1: geological conditions and atmospheric conditions that make Earth the fire

545
00:28:17,200 --> 00:28:20,160
Speaker 1: planet and as far as we know, uniquely the fire planet.

546
00:28:20,200 --> 00:28:22,720
Speaker 1: When you guys were researching, did you only listen to

547
00:28:22,880 --> 00:28:25,520
Speaker 1: Ngay Momstein's Fire and Ice. I don't know what you're

548
00:28:25,560 --> 00:28:29,240
Speaker 1: talking about, but just a continuous loop of of what

549
00:28:29,440 --> 00:28:34,760
Speaker 1: Metallica's fight fire with nice? Nice? Okay, that's better. Oh man,

550
00:28:34,880 --> 00:28:37,880
Speaker 1: I remember that one. You know, my favorite Metallica song

551
00:28:37,960 --> 00:28:42,480
Speaker 1: back in the day was four Horsemen. Yeah we're really

552
00:28:42,800 --> 00:28:44,800
Speaker 1: and yeah I love Master Ofpuppets. I don't know where

553
00:28:44,840 --> 00:28:49,480
Speaker 1: we're going with this, but okay, okay, uh yeah. So anyway,

554
00:28:49,520 --> 00:28:51,640
Speaker 1: we we heard from several people, and I'm gonna try

555
00:28:51,640 --> 00:28:54,600
Speaker 1: to get a few messages about this couple of episodes

556
00:28:54,600 --> 00:28:57,000
Speaker 1: because we got a ton. But we heard from Julian

557
00:28:57,240 --> 00:29:00,280
Speaker 1: one who said, hey, there, Robert and Joe might ears

558
00:29:00,360 --> 00:29:03,200
Speaker 1: just had the awesome pleasure of being completely enveloped and

559
00:29:03,320 --> 00:29:07,400
Speaker 1: soothed by your latest episode. That's embarrassing but also doing

560
00:29:07,520 --> 00:29:11,840
Speaker 1: some um some SMR. I hope not. But okay, So

561
00:29:12,040 --> 00:29:15,120
Speaker 1: Julian says the episode was a world without fire. Uh

562
00:29:15,240 --> 00:29:19,120
Speaker 1: please excuse my strange intro. Somewhere in this episode you

563
00:29:19,200 --> 00:29:23,080
Speaker 1: mentioned that wildfires can occur outside of hot, dry climates

564
00:29:23,360 --> 00:29:26,080
Speaker 1: like the jungle. I figured i'd write in and fill

565
00:29:26,120 --> 00:29:28,320
Speaker 1: you in on a recent fire we had here. I

566
00:29:28,440 --> 00:29:31,720
Speaker 1: live in Belize in Central America, and last year we

567
00:29:31,800 --> 00:29:34,720
Speaker 1: had a hurricane passed just south of us. The jungles

568
00:29:34,760 --> 00:29:37,360
Speaker 1: here are too lush in the atmosphere too humid to

569
00:29:37,440 --> 00:29:41,280
Speaker 1: have a wildfire from an unchecked camp fire or spark. However,

570
00:29:41,440 --> 00:29:44,600
Speaker 1: when this hurricane passed over, it did some damage to

571
00:29:44,680 --> 00:29:48,200
Speaker 1: the vast jungles. Although never strong enough to completely knock

572
00:29:48,280 --> 00:29:52,000
Speaker 1: down everything, hurricanes do damage to the canopy, breaking off

573
00:29:52,080 --> 00:29:55,280
Speaker 1: the tops of trees and high branches and leaving a

574
00:29:55,400 --> 00:29:59,360
Speaker 1: blanket of dead foliage on the canopy. And this is

575
00:29:59,400 --> 00:30:03,320
Speaker 1: what happened last year. After several weeks, the dead foliage dried,

576
00:30:03,520 --> 00:30:06,160
Speaker 1: and it is believed that a lightning strike ignited this,

577
00:30:06,440 --> 00:30:10,080
Speaker 1: causing a forest fire on top of the jungle. A

578
00:30:10,200 --> 00:30:12,960
Speaker 1: strange and scary event, indeed, but it does happen, and

579
00:30:13,040 --> 00:30:15,440
Speaker 1: this sort of connects to I definitely didn't see it

580
00:30:15,480 --> 00:30:17,320
Speaker 1: in the jungles, but we talked about the ideas of

581
00:30:17,520 --> 00:30:20,680
Speaker 1: crown fires, right, the fires that become very hot and

582
00:30:20,760 --> 00:30:24,680
Speaker 1: spread from the tops of trees. Picking up with Julian's email,

583
00:30:24,800 --> 00:30:27,200
Speaker 1: another thought that came to my mind during this episode

584
00:30:27,240 --> 00:30:29,800
Speaker 1: came after you guys mentioned how a civilization or life

585
00:30:29,880 --> 00:30:34,480
Speaker 1: form would ever be able to advance without fire for cooking, smelting,

586
00:30:34,680 --> 00:30:38,320
Speaker 1: metal works, etcetera. I immediately thought to myself, we have

587
00:30:38,520 --> 00:30:41,200
Speaker 1: fire to thank for our advancement as a species. But

588
00:30:41,440 --> 00:30:44,200
Speaker 1: is there an element? Is there a substance or a

589
00:30:44,280 --> 00:30:48,240
Speaker 1: certain reaction like fire that another species on another planet

590
00:30:48,280 --> 00:30:51,120
Speaker 1: has used and thanked for its advancements that we have

591
00:30:51,280 --> 00:30:54,239
Speaker 1: yet to discover or may never discover at all due

592
00:30:54,280 --> 00:30:58,120
Speaker 1: to differing planetary and atmospheric conditions. Uh. This is sort

593
00:30:58,120 --> 00:31:01,080
Speaker 1: of one of the questions we talked out, and so

594
00:31:01,240 --> 00:31:02,920
Speaker 1: Julian says, really wish I could have gotten this to

595
00:31:03,040 --> 00:31:05,000
Speaker 1: you in time for your second episode on the topic.

596
00:31:05,120 --> 00:31:07,480
Speaker 1: Thanks for the great podcast you guys do. I know

597
00:31:07,600 --> 00:31:09,400
Speaker 1: you must hear this plenty, but I have to mention

598
00:31:09,480 --> 00:31:12,280
Speaker 1: it as well. You guys do amazing work. It's always

599
00:31:12,280 --> 00:31:16,600
Speaker 1: a joy listening to you. And also, Julian ads that

600
00:31:16,920 --> 00:31:19,480
Speaker 1: we must pass on the praise to Christian. Oh that's

601
00:31:19,560 --> 00:31:24,640
Speaker 1: thank you, Julian. I hope that my voice also soothes Julian,

602
00:31:25,720 --> 00:31:28,600
Speaker 1: you are you are incredibly soothing. I try. I was

603
00:31:28,640 --> 00:31:31,040
Speaker 1: just going to mention in relation to this, uh, this

604
00:31:31,280 --> 00:31:34,920
Speaker 1: letter that we here in Georgia have been what is

605
00:31:34,920 --> 00:31:37,320
Speaker 1: the terminology that they're using, like red alert or we've

606
00:31:37,320 --> 00:31:42,040
Speaker 1: had smoke conditions. So just last week we were in Atlanta,

607
00:31:42,320 --> 00:31:44,880
Speaker 1: the city was enveloped in smoke. Yeah, you couldn't even

608
00:31:44,920 --> 00:31:47,200
Speaker 1: really walk outside. It was like a beautiful day, dude.

609
00:31:47,240 --> 00:31:48,320
Speaker 1: That was the thing. I was gonna work on my

610
00:31:48,400 --> 00:31:52,040
Speaker 1: front porch. But you go outside and it's just breathing

611
00:31:52,120 --> 00:31:55,360
Speaker 1: in this yeah awful fume. Yeah yeah. And uh and

612
00:31:55,480 --> 00:31:59,520
Speaker 1: this apparently came from fires up in northern Georgia. There

613
00:31:59,560 --> 00:32:03,240
Speaker 1: were forest fires because it's been so dry, so very

614
00:32:03,480 --> 00:32:05,840
Speaker 1: very much related to what he was talking about in Belize.

615
00:32:05,880 --> 00:32:08,760
Speaker 1: It sounds like, uh, well different there because it's not

616
00:32:08,960 --> 00:32:11,840
Speaker 1: naturally dry there, but that the dead foliage can become

617
00:32:11,960 --> 00:32:13,920
Speaker 1: dry if it gets all ripped off of the trees

618
00:32:14,040 --> 00:32:18,200
Speaker 1: due to a hurricane. So quick personal aside on this.

619
00:32:18,920 --> 00:32:21,680
Speaker 1: Uh So, they've been telling us here in Georgia that

620
00:32:21,760 --> 00:32:24,200
Speaker 1: we should be, you know, concerned about the possibility of

621
00:32:24,280 --> 00:32:26,920
Speaker 1: fires just starting in like your yard or something like that.

622
00:32:27,440 --> 00:32:30,800
Speaker 1: It's not the weekend to have a bonfire. I have. Um,

623
00:32:31,080 --> 00:32:33,520
Speaker 1: there's a house that's empty behind me. You guys know this.

624
00:32:33,600 --> 00:32:36,040
Speaker 1: I think I've told you, and there's been some people

625
00:32:36,160 --> 00:32:39,320
Speaker 1: squatting in it. Just the other night they started a

626
00:32:39,400 --> 00:32:43,040
Speaker 1: bonfire in the backyard of this house. And I was

627
00:32:43,160 --> 00:32:45,360
Speaker 1: really worried, like I don't want to rat out on

628
00:32:45,440 --> 00:32:47,480
Speaker 1: these folks, you know, like they it's cold out, they

629
00:32:47,560 --> 00:32:49,320
Speaker 1: need a place to stay. But at the same time,

630
00:32:49,360 --> 00:32:50,960
Speaker 1: I also don't want them to start a fire that

631
00:32:51,080 --> 00:32:53,360
Speaker 1: burns the neighborhood down. I mean, put that it, put

632
00:32:53,440 --> 00:32:56,200
Speaker 1: it in a barrel. That's why we have barrels, right,

633
00:32:56,800 --> 00:32:59,800
Speaker 1: steel drum. Yeah, yeah, but this is like a like

634
00:33:00,320 --> 00:33:03,640
Speaker 1: concern for a lot of people in the area right now. Yeah, Okay,

635
00:33:03,680 --> 00:33:05,440
Speaker 1: Like I said, we've got a bunch of email about

636
00:33:05,480 --> 00:33:08,680
Speaker 1: the fire episodes because we asked. We asked the listeners, like,

637
00:33:09,120 --> 00:33:13,400
Speaker 1: could you think of another chemical reaction alternative to fire

638
00:33:13,480 --> 00:33:15,400
Speaker 1: that could take place on one of these worlds where

639
00:33:15,480 --> 00:33:19,440
Speaker 1: fire is not permitted? That pops into my mind is plasma?

640
00:33:19,560 --> 00:33:21,760
Speaker 1: Did you guys talk about that at all? Well? Plasmas?

641
00:33:22,280 --> 00:33:23,600
Speaker 1: What do you mean? I mean, like, plasma is a

642
00:33:23,640 --> 00:33:27,400
Speaker 1: phase of matter. But how would you create um? Couldn't

643
00:33:27,440 --> 00:33:29,960
Speaker 1: you use plasma for some of the same things that

644
00:33:30,000 --> 00:33:32,640
Speaker 1: you use fire for? How would you create it? That's

645
00:33:32,680 --> 00:33:34,680
Speaker 1: the problem. Yeah, But I guess you'd have to imagine

646
00:33:34,720 --> 00:33:36,960
Speaker 1: an alien civilization where they have access to it, And

647
00:33:37,120 --> 00:33:38,920
Speaker 1: that's the that's the one of the problems is that

648
00:33:39,040 --> 00:33:43,480
Speaker 1: increasingly you have to employ a rather robust imagination factor

649
00:33:43,560 --> 00:33:46,640
Speaker 1: to fill in the gaps, uh, to make up for

650
00:33:46,680 --> 00:33:49,760
Speaker 1: the lack of fire. But anyway, we postulated that the idea.

651
00:33:49,840 --> 00:33:51,840
Speaker 1: We don't know that it's true, but we said, you know,

652
00:33:51,960 --> 00:33:55,600
Speaker 1: it could be that you can't have advanced civilization in

653
00:33:55,720 --> 00:33:58,800
Speaker 1: this universe without a planet that allows for fire. And

654
00:33:59,160 --> 00:34:02,560
Speaker 1: we talked about one paper where a guy makes this case. Um,

655
00:34:02,800 --> 00:34:05,239
Speaker 1: and so one listener got in touch with us. Our

656
00:34:05,320 --> 00:34:09,000
Speaker 1: listener named Tapan got in touch with us to say

657
00:34:09,120 --> 00:34:13,440
Speaker 1: that essentially this idea that you might need fire as

658
00:34:13,520 --> 00:34:17,239
Speaker 1: a necessary pre requisite to advance technology. And the main

659
00:34:17,360 --> 00:34:19,399
Speaker 1: idea we had there is that you can't create metal

660
00:34:19,480 --> 00:34:22,759
Speaker 1: tools without fire as far as we know. Uh. Tapan says,

661
00:34:22,800 --> 00:34:25,560
Speaker 1: we essentially should be more open minded. So I so

662
00:34:26,520 --> 00:34:29,000
Speaker 1: I sent to Pan a list of modern technologies and

663
00:34:29,120 --> 00:34:31,319
Speaker 1: was like, okay, well, I want to see your imagination.

664
00:34:31,719 --> 00:34:33,800
Speaker 1: How could you come up with these things without fire

665
00:34:34,000 --> 00:34:38,320
Speaker 1: or metal tools? And to Pan's responses were interesting to me.

666
00:34:38,760 --> 00:34:43,680
Speaker 1: So for instant long distance communication, the suggestion was sound

667
00:34:43,760 --> 00:34:46,439
Speaker 1: travels through all solids, not just metal. So I'm trying

668
00:34:46,480 --> 00:34:51,000
Speaker 1: to imagine like wooden or stone telephone wires. I don't know,

669
00:34:51,280 --> 00:34:54,480
Speaker 1: but maybe okay. But then I said, what about rapid

670
00:34:54,680 --> 00:34:59,879
Speaker 1: land transportation? Japan says, wouldn't spring catapults with landing pair

671
00:35:00,120 --> 00:35:06,200
Speaker 1: shoots like woven out of natural materials? Okay? I was like, okay,

672
00:35:06,239 --> 00:35:09,399
Speaker 1: what about video recording and playback? That's got you gotta

673
00:35:09,440 --> 00:35:12,440
Speaker 1: have metal tools for that, right Uh? And to Pan

674
00:35:12,520 --> 00:35:17,840
Speaker 1: suggests a record movement using a fast solidifying semi solid Oh. Okay,

675
00:35:17,880 --> 00:35:22,719
Speaker 1: so like gel type materials. Maybe maybe so the the

676
00:35:23,160 --> 00:35:27,080
Speaker 1: if you're recording, say a roadrunner running across the street,

677
00:35:27,640 --> 00:35:29,279
Speaker 1: you would have to have it run through the gel

678
00:35:29,360 --> 00:35:32,200
Speaker 1: and then you would have like this gel material I

679
00:35:32,239 --> 00:35:36,400
Speaker 1: don't know what we're using, vast would only playback if

680
00:35:36,440 --> 00:35:40,200
Speaker 1: you were within proximity of the gel. Okay. So uh.

681
00:35:40,440 --> 00:35:43,480
Speaker 1: For aviation, the suggestion was, of course a hang glider,

682
00:35:43,600 --> 00:35:46,440
Speaker 1: but of course a hang glider doesn't gain altitude on

683
00:35:46,520 --> 00:35:50,880
Speaker 1: its own. Um. For optics and astronomy, to Pan suggested,

684
00:35:50,920 --> 00:35:53,759
Speaker 1: I thought this was smart water lenses. That's actually I

685
00:35:53,840 --> 00:35:58,399
Speaker 1: could see that being a possibility. Um maybe maybe who knows.

686
00:35:59,160 --> 00:36:04,040
Speaker 1: For radio depends suggest loudspeakers, I don't know about that one. Uh.

687
00:36:04,600 --> 00:36:08,840
Speaker 1: For computers, we get the suggestion of a difference engine

688
00:36:08,880 --> 00:36:12,640
Speaker 1: built with wood, which you could build. I guess the

689
00:36:12,719 --> 00:36:15,160
Speaker 1: question there would just be size, Like you could build

690
00:36:15,239 --> 00:36:19,800
Speaker 1: a giant wooden structure that works to essentially be a

691
00:36:19,960 --> 00:36:24,320
Speaker 1: binary difference engine computer. I think to do that, you know,

692
00:36:24,760 --> 00:36:27,560
Speaker 1: to make even a simple computer, you might need a

693
00:36:27,680 --> 00:36:30,239
Speaker 1: structure the size of a state or something. I mean,

694
00:36:30,280 --> 00:36:33,799
Speaker 1: it would be gigantic. In the three body problem, it's

695
00:36:33,880 --> 00:36:36,440
Speaker 1: it's brought up at one point that you could you

696
00:36:36,480 --> 00:36:39,320
Speaker 1: could have a computer where it's basically individuals setting around

697
00:36:39,360 --> 00:36:43,880
Speaker 1: waving flags. Yeah, I mean, any any anything you can

698
00:36:44,000 --> 00:36:47,600
Speaker 1: use in nature to create a consequential series of on

699
00:36:47,760 --> 00:36:51,719
Speaker 1: off switches could be turned into a computer. Giant Turing machine. Yeah,

700
00:36:51,800 --> 00:36:54,480
Speaker 1: it's just gonna be so big. You know the thing

701
00:36:54,520 --> 00:36:58,400
Speaker 1: about semiconductors, as you can pack them into this tiny space. Uh.

702
00:36:58,480 --> 00:37:01,120
Speaker 1: And then of course with district needed power grids, I

703
00:37:01,200 --> 00:37:03,200
Speaker 1: was like, how would you get that? Well, Japan reminds

704
00:37:03,239 --> 00:37:07,719
Speaker 1: me any container with electrolyte will transmit electrons, So maybe

705
00:37:07,760 --> 00:37:10,920
Speaker 1: you could have like a salt water pipe based power

706
00:37:11,000 --> 00:37:13,080
Speaker 1: grid or something like Well, this came up in our

707
00:37:13,120 --> 00:37:17,799
Speaker 1: Frankenstein episode to talking about voltaic batteries. Yeah, um huh, yeah,

708
00:37:17,840 --> 00:37:21,560
Speaker 1: that's interesting. Uh So anyway, I I'm not buying it yet.

709
00:37:21,680 --> 00:37:24,120
Speaker 1: I'm not I'm not convinced that you can get to

710
00:37:24,200 --> 00:37:27,759
Speaker 1: advance technologies without fire and metal tools. But but I

711
00:37:27,960 --> 00:37:31,319
Speaker 1: really really admire the imagination in these responses. I think

712
00:37:31,360 --> 00:37:35,480
Speaker 1: they're very smart, even if maybe implausible. Well, this is

713
00:37:35,520 --> 00:37:38,239
Speaker 1: how we get cool movies like Arrival, right, is like

714
00:37:38,760 --> 00:37:42,319
Speaker 1: these thought experiments. All right, So this next one comes

715
00:37:42,400 --> 00:37:46,720
Speaker 1: to us from Chris, who works at the JPL for NASA,

716
00:37:47,080 --> 00:37:50,560
Speaker 1: and this is related to our episode about the Osiris

717
00:37:50,680 --> 00:37:54,680
Speaker 1: REX mission that recently launched. Chris says, Hi, gentlemen, while

718
00:37:54,719 --> 00:37:57,160
Speaker 1: listening to your recent episode on the Ossiris REX mission,

719
00:37:57,400 --> 00:37:59,600
Speaker 1: I was thrilled to hear you mentioned the three sites

720
00:37:59,680 --> 00:38:03,560
Speaker 1: gold Stone, Canberra, and Madrid. I know I'm pronouncing Canberra

721
00:38:03,600 --> 00:38:06,440
Speaker 1: around because we got got emails about that. In the

722
00:38:06,520 --> 00:38:11,040
Speaker 1: fire episode, I mentioned Canbra. Is that Yeah, it's Canbra,

723
00:38:11,280 --> 00:38:15,440
Speaker 1: Canbra all right, sorry, but I pronounced it Canberra Okay.

724
00:38:16,040 --> 00:38:18,920
Speaker 1: That will be receiving signals and data. These three sites

725
00:38:19,080 --> 00:38:21,960
Speaker 1: make up the Deep Space Network d s N, which

726
00:38:22,040 --> 00:38:25,680
Speaker 1: is a system of thirteen antenna's managed by NASA's Jet

727
00:38:25,719 --> 00:38:28,920
Speaker 1: Propulsion Laboratory. The cool thing about the DSN is that

728
00:38:29,160 --> 00:38:34,160
Speaker 1: every spacecraft American or otherwise otherwise further away than the

729
00:38:34,280 --> 00:38:39,319
Speaker 1: Moon talks to the Earth through these antennas. Voyager phones home,

730
00:38:39,800 --> 00:38:42,680
Speaker 1: it's calling the d s N. Juno sends a picture

731
00:38:43,000 --> 00:38:45,239
Speaker 1: through the d s N. The d s N is

732
00:38:45,400 --> 00:38:48,920
Speaker 1: one of NASA's oldest continuous programs, but it doesn't get

733
00:38:48,960 --> 00:38:51,440
Speaker 1: a lot of love because it's like the cup holder

734
00:38:51,480 --> 00:38:53,640
Speaker 1: in your car. You're so used to it being there,

735
00:38:53,680 --> 00:38:57,200
Speaker 1: you don't really notice it unless it stops working. But

736
00:38:57,400 --> 00:39:01,000
Speaker 1: really it's fascinating and exciting, both for its storied history

737
00:39:01,200 --> 00:39:04,320
Speaker 1: they supported the Apollo program and it's importance to modern

738
00:39:04,400 --> 00:39:07,520
Speaker 1: day space exploration. I do have one correction to make.

739
00:39:08,080 --> 00:39:11,719
Speaker 1: You said that the antenna can talk to spacecraft up

740
00:39:11,800 --> 00:39:15,239
Speaker 1: to the size of a pizza box box. That fact,

741
00:39:15,239 --> 00:39:18,719
Speaker 1: TOID is actually as small as a pizza box, and

742
00:39:18,800 --> 00:39:21,840
Speaker 1: it's meant to illustrate how powerful and precisest equipment is.

743
00:39:22,160 --> 00:39:26,360
Speaker 1: Imagine aiming at something that small just one mile away,

744
00:39:26,920 --> 00:39:31,240
Speaker 1: let alone a billion. Our DSN operators do that twenty

745
00:39:31,360 --> 00:39:33,919
Speaker 1: four hours a day, three d and sixty five days

746
00:39:33,960 --> 00:39:37,479
Speaker 1: a year. Anyways, thanks for the fantastic podcast for making

747
00:39:37,520 --> 00:39:39,920
Speaker 1: me a little smarter every day and for mentioning one

748
00:39:39,960 --> 00:39:42,799
Speaker 1: of my favorite NASA projects. I would love to hear

749
00:39:42,840 --> 00:39:45,960
Speaker 1: a future podcast on the DSN itself, because I think

750
00:39:46,000 --> 00:39:49,200
Speaker 1: there's lots of good material there, or even the history

751
00:39:49,239 --> 00:39:52,680
Speaker 1: of the Jet Propulsion Lab, which is, in my humble opinion,

752
00:39:52,880 --> 00:39:56,560
Speaker 1: the coolest NASA center. Keep up the great work. Is

753
00:39:56,600 --> 00:40:00,520
Speaker 1: there really a coolest NASA center? So all cool? In

754
00:40:00,600 --> 00:40:03,120
Speaker 1: my heart? They do yeah, and and we at how

755
00:40:03,160 --> 00:40:06,360
Speaker 1: stuff works. Just have a general fondness I think for

756
00:40:06,520 --> 00:40:09,600
Speaker 1: NASA and and love doing stories related to it. I

757
00:40:09,719 --> 00:40:12,719
Speaker 1: will say Robert and I are looking into doing an

758
00:40:12,760 --> 00:40:16,160
Speaker 1: episode related to the history of the Jet Propulsion Laboratory

759
00:40:16,520 --> 00:40:19,480
Speaker 1: because we're talking about doing an episode on Jack Parsons,

760
00:40:19,560 --> 00:40:24,000
Speaker 1: who was instrumental in starting the JPL and coincidentally thought

761
00:40:24,080 --> 00:40:28,520
Speaker 1: himself to be a magician occultist. Have you not heard

762
00:40:28,560 --> 00:40:30,799
Speaker 1: of Jack Parsons? No, I don't know anything about this. Yeah,

763
00:40:31,080 --> 00:40:33,560
Speaker 1: this is awesome, a lot of fun uh in there,

764
00:40:33,680 --> 00:40:35,800
Speaker 1: we're we're talking about to put it together, right. So

765
00:40:36,000 --> 00:40:38,239
Speaker 1: he was interested in getting in touch with the outer

766
00:40:38,400 --> 00:40:41,640
Speaker 1: horrors through space exploration. So I don't know if he

767
00:40:42,080 --> 00:40:45,080
Speaker 1: and he had a really interesting history parallel to l

768
00:40:45,200 --> 00:40:48,120
Speaker 1: Ron Hubbard. Yeah, I guess the question we're sort of

769
00:40:48,160 --> 00:40:50,680
Speaker 1: asking is, at this point, do we want to do

770
00:40:50,800 --> 00:40:56,040
Speaker 1: an episode just on Jack Parsons, his science and his

771
00:40:56,600 --> 00:41:01,200
Speaker 1: uh extra scientific beliefs, or is it something in which

772
00:41:01,239 --> 00:41:04,319
Speaker 1: he is a part if we're like looking at more

773
00:41:04,440 --> 00:41:08,400
Speaker 1: of connections between modern scientific investigations and sort of new

774
00:41:08,480 --> 00:41:11,759
Speaker 1: age ideas. So we're still figuring that one out if

775
00:41:11,800 --> 00:41:14,839
Speaker 1: you're interested in the meantime. Once upon a time, when

776
00:41:14,880 --> 00:41:17,040
Speaker 1: I first started at How Stuff Works, I think my

777
00:41:17,239 --> 00:41:19,600
Speaker 1: first video I ever did here for our Stuff of

778
00:41:19,680 --> 00:41:22,960
Speaker 1: Genius channel was all about Jack Parsons. So I did

779
00:41:22,960 --> 00:41:25,839
Speaker 1: a little four minute Jack Parsons video. I'm sure if

780
00:41:25,840 --> 00:41:30,640
Speaker 1: you google Stuff of Genius Jack Parsons that should come up, alright. So,

781
00:41:31,320 --> 00:41:34,600
Speaker 1: in discussing our episode on combat Stems combat steems better

782
00:41:34,880 --> 00:41:38,200
Speaker 1: Warriors through Chemistry, we discussed how you know, so often

783
00:41:38,239 --> 00:41:41,920
Speaker 1: in our video games there's all this horrific violence, military

784
00:41:42,000 --> 00:41:45,359
Speaker 1: combat going on, and to them, for the most part,

785
00:41:45,400 --> 00:41:49,160
Speaker 1: you don't have to deal with the psychological effects. Uh.

786
00:41:49,280 --> 00:41:51,240
Speaker 1: You know, sometimes, like in a game like x COM,

787
00:41:51,520 --> 00:41:53,839
Speaker 1: you can have characters that end up panicking and they

788
00:41:53,920 --> 00:41:57,200
Speaker 1: run off or they there's a friendly fire incidents something

789
00:41:57,280 --> 00:42:00,080
Speaker 1: like that, but for the most part it's easily dealt with.

790
00:42:00,200 --> 00:42:02,560
Speaker 1: So we reached out to all of our gamer listeners

791
00:42:02,640 --> 00:42:04,680
Speaker 1: and said, hey, do you have any examples of games

792
00:42:04,760 --> 00:42:08,000
Speaker 1: that actually take PTSD into account in any way, shape

793
00:42:08,080 --> 00:42:10,279
Speaker 1: or form, and we heard back from some people. So

794
00:42:10,480 --> 00:42:13,399
Speaker 1: this one came to us from Matt listener. Matt writes

795
00:42:13,440 --> 00:42:15,520
Speaker 1: and it says, Hi, Robert and Christian love the podcast.

796
00:42:15,560 --> 00:42:17,560
Speaker 1: It keeps me company and informed on the way to

797
00:42:17,640 --> 00:42:20,200
Speaker 1: work on your combat STEMS episode. You wondered if there

798
00:42:20,200 --> 00:42:23,399
Speaker 1: are video games, specifically shooters to deal with PTSD. I'm

799
00:42:23,400 --> 00:42:25,439
Speaker 1: not sure about shooters, but there is an excellent game

800
00:42:25,480 --> 00:42:29,760
Speaker 1: called Darkest Dungeon where the toll the that the horrors

801
00:42:29,920 --> 00:42:32,760
Speaker 1: of adventuring take on your mind is just as dangerous

802
00:42:32,760 --> 00:42:35,719
Speaker 1: as the monsters. Based on discussions on past episodes, I

803
00:42:35,840 --> 00:42:38,120
Speaker 1: feel this game is right up your alley. Picture a

804
00:42:38,280 --> 00:42:41,279
Speaker 1: side scrolling dungeon crawl said in a love crafty in

805
00:42:41,440 --> 00:42:44,160
Speaker 1: Hamlet and drawn in the style of the hell Boy comics.

806
00:42:44,560 --> 00:42:47,760
Speaker 1: Stress comes into play during each mission and between missions,

807
00:42:48,320 --> 00:42:51,879
Speaker 1: your characters developed quirks, agrophobia, I fear of the dark,

808
00:42:51,960 --> 00:42:55,000
Speaker 1: fear of blood, holy ravings that need to be addressed.

809
00:42:55,360 --> 00:42:58,000
Speaker 1: You keep a stable of about fifteen adventures on hand,

810
00:42:58,280 --> 00:43:01,279
Speaker 1: but if you run out of gold for treatments, sometimes

811
00:43:01,600 --> 00:43:04,560
Speaker 1: you find you've got to send in a group of paranoid,

812
00:43:04,600 --> 00:43:07,480
Speaker 1: abusive drunks, send them into a dungeon and hope for

813
00:43:07,560 --> 00:43:11,359
Speaker 1: the best. Enjoy and keep up the awesome work. Matt

814
00:43:11,640 --> 00:43:14,840
Speaker 1: in Toronto And uh, yeah this. I have not played this,

815
00:43:15,120 --> 00:43:17,240
Speaker 1: but I had to look it up after receive the email,

816
00:43:17,640 --> 00:43:20,200
Speaker 1: and it came out from It was published by Red

817
00:43:20,239 --> 00:43:26,160
Speaker 1: Hook Studios and it looks like it's available for Windows, H, Linux, UM,

818
00:43:27,080 --> 00:43:31,120
Speaker 1: PlayStation four and PlayStation Vita. If anyone out there has

819
00:43:31,160 --> 00:43:35,440
Speaker 1: those systems I do not. Yeah. And also in relation

820
00:43:35,520 --> 00:43:38,600
Speaker 1: to that, we received I would say a good dozen

821
00:43:38,760 --> 00:43:41,880
Speaker 1: emails of people recommending a game to us called spec

822
00:43:41,920 --> 00:43:46,080
Speaker 1: Ops the line, which apparently also incorporates in some way

823
00:43:46,200 --> 00:43:51,640
Speaker 1: or another dealing with PTSD in battle. But almost all

824
00:43:51,719 --> 00:43:53,800
Speaker 1: of our listeners who recommended this to us said that

825
00:43:53,880 --> 00:43:56,560
Speaker 1: it's like a it's a really important twist as part

826
00:43:56,600 --> 00:43:58,360
Speaker 1: of the games story, so they didn't want to reveal

827
00:43:58,440 --> 00:44:01,960
Speaker 1: to us how it played into it. They all recommended

828
00:44:02,280 --> 00:44:04,040
Speaker 1: the game entirely they said. They said that it was

829
00:44:04,120 --> 00:44:07,000
Speaker 1: really great, So, yeah, that maybe something that I'll looked

830
00:44:07,040 --> 00:44:09,000
Speaker 1: to play down the lip. Yeah, I looked this one up.

831
00:44:09,000 --> 00:44:13,080
Speaker 1: It came out, and it sounds like it was probably

832
00:44:13,120 --> 00:44:15,480
Speaker 1: maybe a little ahead of its time, or you know,

833
00:44:15,600 --> 00:44:17,840
Speaker 1: maybe it's it's it's trying to make So what is

834
00:44:17,920 --> 00:44:20,080
Speaker 1: it a shooter? It is. It is a shooter. It's

835
00:44:20,120 --> 00:44:23,560
Speaker 1: a third person shooter and it was developed by Yeager

836
00:44:23,680 --> 00:44:28,360
Speaker 1: Development for two K games. Uh to Interact make a

837
00:44:28,560 --> 00:44:34,320
Speaker 1: Battle Born and u uh Borderlands. Yeah, so it it

838
00:44:34,440 --> 00:44:37,120
Speaker 1: sounds to me from materials I was looking at about

839
00:44:37,200 --> 00:44:39,120
Speaker 1: it and I have not played it that yeah, that

840
00:44:39,239 --> 00:44:41,840
Speaker 1: it was just maybe a little to advance for what

841
00:44:42,000 --> 00:44:44,719
Speaker 1: people really want to I guess people wanted the escapist

842
00:44:45,200 --> 00:44:48,239
Speaker 1: call of duty and shoot everything without consequences kind of

843
00:44:48,280 --> 00:44:52,439
Speaker 1: game point play, and this was developing something a little

844
00:44:52,480 --> 00:44:54,920
Speaker 1: more deeper and maybe maybe a little less fun in

845
00:44:54,960 --> 00:44:56,880
Speaker 1: the process. Well that was what we were asking for.

846
00:44:57,040 --> 00:44:59,200
Speaker 1: I don't know about the less fun part, but what

847
00:44:59,320 --> 00:45:00,880
Speaker 1: I was saying in the episode was I would think

848
00:45:00,880 --> 00:45:04,480
Speaker 1: it would be a more immersive storyline and so and

849
00:45:04,600 --> 00:45:06,759
Speaker 1: it it definitely sounds like from everybody who's played this

850
00:45:06,920 --> 00:45:08,839
Speaker 1: that they think so, so it sounds like it's worth

851
00:45:08,960 --> 00:45:11,160
Speaker 1: checking out. Yeah, you guys might have mentioned this in

852
00:45:11,200 --> 00:45:13,880
Speaker 1: the episode, but it does certainly make me think that

853
00:45:15,000 --> 00:45:17,800
Speaker 1: exactly that concept runs counter to what I think a

854
00:45:17,880 --> 00:45:19,680
Speaker 1: lot of people are trying to get out of a

855
00:45:19,800 --> 00:45:21,880
Speaker 1: video game experience. I mean, I think a lot of

856
00:45:21,960 --> 00:45:25,959
Speaker 1: people are like they want a rush without actually having

857
00:45:26,040 --> 00:45:29,680
Speaker 1: to experience any lasting trauma or anything. It's kind of

858
00:45:29,719 --> 00:45:31,360
Speaker 1: the same way as like a horror movie or a

859
00:45:31,480 --> 00:45:34,800
Speaker 1: roller coaster or something like that, something to to, you know,

860
00:45:35,040 --> 00:45:39,160
Speaker 1: give you adrenaline, focus and get the get the high,

861
00:45:39,239 --> 00:45:42,120
Speaker 1: get the experience, get the relaxation benefits you get out

862
00:45:42,160 --> 00:45:44,960
Speaker 1: of that, but without actually having to do anything dangerous

863
00:45:45,120 --> 00:45:47,520
Speaker 1: or scary. It's funny that you mentioned this because I

864
00:45:47,760 --> 00:45:51,600
Speaker 1: was thinking about the episode that you guys did on Tetris. Yeah,

865
00:45:51,719 --> 00:45:55,239
Speaker 1: that came up. Yeah, And and uh, I've been uh

866
00:45:55,560 --> 00:45:59,160
Speaker 1: lately playing a lot of the shooter game Destiny. I

867
00:45:59,200 --> 00:46:02,960
Speaker 1: don't know if you guys have played this before. Uh no, No,

868
00:46:03,120 --> 00:46:06,880
Speaker 1: it's like an mm O slash first person shooter. This

869
00:46:06,960 --> 00:46:09,160
Speaker 1: is the one whatever. It has like weird faceless film

870
00:46:09,200 --> 00:46:13,320
Speaker 1: its yeah, okay, yeah, yeah, uh and I have found

871
00:46:13,520 --> 00:46:15,960
Speaker 1: that even though I'm kind of bored with the game

872
00:46:16,000 --> 00:46:19,800
Speaker 1: itself in the storyline, that I'm just repetitively playing it,

873
00:46:20,239 --> 00:46:22,160
Speaker 1: almost like I would play like a puzzle game like

874
00:46:22,239 --> 00:46:26,839
Speaker 1: Tetris solely just to kind of calm down. Like I'll

875
00:46:26,880 --> 00:46:29,759
Speaker 1: play it for like thirty or forty minutes. It's totally mindless.

876
00:46:30,200 --> 00:46:32,839
Speaker 1: I don't really get anything, Like, I don't even get

877
00:46:32,920 --> 00:46:35,200
Speaker 1: like any adrenaline high out of it. It's just kind

878
00:46:35,239 --> 00:46:38,719
Speaker 1: of like put the bullets in the heads, it's flow. Yeah,

879
00:46:39,280 --> 00:46:41,640
Speaker 1: that's the whole thing with with Tetris. I mean, suppose

880
00:46:41,760 --> 00:46:44,520
Speaker 1: we talked about this in our episode. Is creating a

881
00:46:44,719 --> 00:46:49,080
Speaker 1: state of a task that's um that's just challenging enough

882
00:46:49,160 --> 00:46:52,160
Speaker 1: to keep you engaged, but also easy enough that it

883
00:46:52,239 --> 00:46:58,320
Speaker 1: never becomes frustratingly simplified reality too one with definite definite goals,

884
00:46:58,440 --> 00:47:02,840
Speaker 1: definite limits, clear clear goals, clear achievable goals that you

885
00:47:02,960 --> 00:47:06,359
Speaker 1: can just essentially a set of parameters where you can

886
00:47:06,440 --> 00:47:10,760
Speaker 1: just continually achieve success over and over without it becoming

887
00:47:10,840 --> 00:47:13,960
Speaker 1: too easy to be boring. Yeah, and certainly, as we

888
00:47:14,040 --> 00:47:17,359
Speaker 1: discussed in those episodes, Tetris is a game that never

889
00:47:17,480 --> 00:47:21,560
Speaker 1: becomes too easy and inevitably becomes too hard. I think

890
00:47:21,600 --> 00:47:24,040
Speaker 1: that that's probably what I think. Bungee are the developers

891
00:47:24,080 --> 00:47:26,520
Speaker 1: of this game, and that's kind of how they've figured

892
00:47:26,640 --> 00:47:28,360
Speaker 1: out to keep you addicted to it, you know what

893
00:47:28,440 --> 00:47:31,800
Speaker 1: I mean. It's like there's always some like next stage

894
00:47:31,920 --> 00:47:33,799
Speaker 1: to get to with it, and there's not too much

895
00:47:33,880 --> 00:47:36,480
Speaker 1: thinking involved. The thing that's weird to me is like

896
00:47:37,000 --> 00:47:38,800
Speaker 1: it you know, we talked about this in the Combat

897
00:47:38,840 --> 00:47:41,879
Speaker 1: Stems episode that like you and I, mainly if we're

898
00:47:41,880 --> 00:47:44,360
Speaker 1: playing shooters, we don't we like them to be fantastic

899
00:47:44,480 --> 00:47:46,560
Speaker 1: or sci fi, and this is like very sci fi

900
00:47:47,160 --> 00:47:50,279
Speaker 1: aliens people don't really die that can reincarnate as like

901
00:47:50,400 --> 00:47:54,280
Speaker 1: digital forms of their bodies. But like there's something inherently

902
00:47:54,320 --> 00:47:58,080
Speaker 1: weird about like calming down while just like blowing away

903
00:47:58,239 --> 00:48:00,759
Speaker 1: like fifty year sixty aliens. You know, I don't know

904
00:48:00,800 --> 00:48:03,440
Speaker 1: about you, guys. I I fail to see the appeal

905
00:48:03,600 --> 00:48:07,360
Speaker 1: of these military shooter again. I know they're very popular,

906
00:48:07,520 --> 00:48:10,799
Speaker 1: but I cannot see what's all that fun. A lot

907
00:48:10,880 --> 00:48:13,400
Speaker 1: of people love them. My brother really likes playing them,

908
00:48:13,480 --> 00:48:15,360
Speaker 1: but like we said in the episode, for for me

909
00:48:15,520 --> 00:48:19,840
Speaker 1: personally has to be some kind of uh fantastic element

910
00:48:20,040 --> 00:48:22,839
Speaker 1: involved in it for me to not feel like I'm

911
00:48:22,880 --> 00:48:26,560
Speaker 1: just replicating like horrific real world violence. Yeah, I do

912
00:48:26,640 --> 00:48:28,560
Speaker 1: have to say that I haven't played one in a while,

913
00:48:28,600 --> 00:48:32,319
Speaker 1: but I used used to really enjoy playing World War

914
00:48:32,480 --> 00:48:37,279
Speaker 1: two aviation simulators with my dad. Uh And but I

915
00:48:37,320 --> 00:48:38,879
Speaker 1: wonder if that has more to do with your love

916
00:48:38,920 --> 00:48:40,880
Speaker 1: of planes. I think so, Well, the thing is too

917
00:48:41,000 --> 00:48:43,520
Speaker 1: they're the planes, and then there's that distance from the

918
00:48:43,600 --> 00:48:47,000
Speaker 1: human reality because it's ultimately it was ultimately like these

919
00:48:47,239 --> 00:48:52,040
Speaker 1: breathtaking digital models of planes interacting with each other. And yes,

920
00:48:52,760 --> 00:48:56,080
Speaker 1: it's representing encounters that would end we end in human

921
00:48:56,200 --> 00:49:00,799
Speaker 1: deaths and casualties and sometimes bombing incidents. But but still

922
00:49:00,880 --> 00:49:02,160
Speaker 1: there was a there was a it was a little

923
00:49:02,160 --> 00:49:05,520
Speaker 1: more removed. Um that being said, I know we have

924
00:49:05,680 --> 00:49:08,080
Speaker 1: some listeners out there who play an early end of

925
00:49:08,120 --> 00:49:10,560
Speaker 1: these military stimulation games, So I would I would love

926
00:49:10,640 --> 00:49:12,320
Speaker 1: to hear you guys. I don't want to, you know,

927
00:49:12,440 --> 00:49:16,200
Speaker 1: just completely judge you guys, and you're the games you're into.

928
00:49:16,200 --> 00:49:18,040
Speaker 1: I'd love to hear your feedback on it and how

929
00:49:18,160 --> 00:49:19,960
Speaker 1: you think about it. There's got to be something to

930
00:49:20,080 --> 00:49:22,359
Speaker 1: it that that I feel like I'm missing because they're

931
00:49:22,400 --> 00:49:26,080
Speaker 1: so incredibly popular. But also related to that episode, we

932
00:49:26,200 --> 00:49:29,880
Speaker 1: got a letter from Joseph and he has personal experience

933
00:49:29,920 --> 00:49:33,000
Speaker 1: in the military and wanted to weigh in on what

934
00:49:33,120 --> 00:49:35,800
Speaker 1: we talked about with combat stimulants and other drugs in

935
00:49:35,840 --> 00:49:38,840
Speaker 1: the military. He says, I'm writing in response to your

936
00:49:38,920 --> 00:49:41,960
Speaker 1: questions posed at the end of Combat Stems is a

937
00:49:42,040 --> 00:49:44,120
Speaker 1: four year veteran of the Marine Corps. I found it

938
00:49:44,239 --> 00:49:47,040
Speaker 1: extremely interesting. First off, I'd like to say that I

939
00:49:47,160 --> 00:49:50,040
Speaker 1: loved your fallout references and that you approached the subject

940
00:49:50,080 --> 00:49:53,800
Speaker 1: of PTSD, killing, etcetera very well and I think everyone

941
00:49:53,880 --> 00:49:56,200
Speaker 1: will be happy with it. My experience with drugs in

942
00:49:56,239 --> 00:49:59,080
Speaker 1: the military, specifically the Marine Corps, is one of deep

943
00:49:59,120 --> 00:50:02,120
Speaker 1: involvement in at every marine I ever knew was part

944
00:50:02,200 --> 00:50:04,759
Speaker 1: of it. Drugs are in the culture. We promote heavy

945
00:50:04,840 --> 00:50:08,160
Speaker 1: drinking and even heavier use of stimulants. One drug you

946
00:50:08,280 --> 00:50:11,240
Speaker 1: didn't cover was nicotine, which I think has an impact

947
00:50:11,360 --> 00:50:13,719
Speaker 1: second only to caffeine. That's a really good point. I

948
00:50:13,719 --> 00:50:16,440
Speaker 1: didn't even think about that during the episode. Possibly a

949
00:50:16,560 --> 00:50:19,200
Speaker 1: third of all Marines I ever met smoked or dipped,

950
00:50:19,480 --> 00:50:23,000
Speaker 1: and during deployments or training operations that grew to easily

951
00:50:23,080 --> 00:50:27,960
Speaker 1: half and not without good reason. Deployments and training operations

952
00:50:28,000 --> 00:50:32,200
Speaker 1: are exhausting. Hell, even normal days in state side are exhausting.

953
00:50:32,520 --> 00:50:34,759
Speaker 1: An average day would begin at oh five hundred, waking

954
00:50:34,840 --> 00:50:37,880
Speaker 1: up than exercising with the platoon at oh six hundred.

955
00:50:38,080 --> 00:50:40,160
Speaker 1: After that we would work until often as late as

956
00:50:40,200 --> 00:50:42,600
Speaker 1: seventeen thirty, but it could go longer. That's roughly a

957
00:50:42,640 --> 00:50:44,799
Speaker 1: twelve hour day, and doing that five days a week

958
00:50:44,920 --> 00:50:48,279
Speaker 1: is exhausting to cope with. Even that, Caffeine is impossible

959
00:50:48,280 --> 00:50:51,040
Speaker 1: to avoid, and nicotine is hard to say no to. Hell,

960
00:50:51,160 --> 00:50:54,240
Speaker 1: I dare to say I owe my life to Copenhagen

961
00:50:54,600 --> 00:50:57,600
Speaker 1: twenty four hours, no sleep, driving thirty five miles per

962
00:50:57,640 --> 00:51:00,759
Speaker 1: hour on a desert road, with more than a little

963
00:51:00,800 --> 00:51:03,560
Speaker 1: more than candlelight, no exaggeration to see the vehicle in

964
00:51:03,640 --> 00:51:06,680
Speaker 1: front of me. It's impossible without nicotine and caffeine. A

965
00:51:06,800 --> 00:51:10,120
Speaker 1: common breakfast among the Marines was something called an m

966
00:51:10,239 --> 00:51:14,040
Speaker 1: R E, a cigarette and a can of Monster. Of course,

967
00:51:14,120 --> 00:51:16,920
Speaker 1: if you could get it, which I could, Adderall was

968
00:51:16,960 --> 00:51:19,320
Speaker 1: a godsend. We did talk about Adderall in that episode.

969
00:51:19,560 --> 00:51:21,400
Speaker 1: I don't know if it's clear from the message, but

970
00:51:21,560 --> 00:51:24,400
Speaker 1: does that mean does that mean sanctioned by the military

971
00:51:24,440 --> 00:51:27,399
Speaker 1: authorities or illicit use of adderall. So we talked about

972
00:51:27,400 --> 00:51:30,520
Speaker 1: this in the episode. It depends. I think for pilots

973
00:51:31,360 --> 00:51:36,200
Speaker 1: it may be sanctioned, but adderall for marines I don't

974
00:51:36,200 --> 00:51:39,640
Speaker 1: think would be right. It's I think what you're encountering

975
00:51:39,680 --> 00:51:42,239
Speaker 1: here is is likely similar to what you're encountering in

976
00:51:42,680 --> 00:51:45,399
Speaker 1: so many lines of work that are not even military based.

977
00:51:45,480 --> 00:51:47,680
Speaker 1: Is that you have you know, individuals within these uh

978
00:51:48,080 --> 00:51:50,320
Speaker 1: these lines of work that have access to it, and

979
00:51:50,400 --> 00:51:53,880
Speaker 1: then that access is shared, and ultimately you're talking about

980
00:51:53,920 --> 00:51:58,360
Speaker 1: a brain boosting power up that that improves focus, that

981
00:51:58,400 --> 00:52:02,960
Speaker 1: improves energy. Uh yeah, it's gonna get used. Uh yeah.

982
00:52:03,120 --> 00:52:05,560
Speaker 1: And so maybe like a culture of permission, even if

983
00:52:05,600 --> 00:52:10,399
Speaker 1: it's not explicitly on the situation. Yeah. Um. And going

984
00:52:10,480 --> 00:52:12,719
Speaker 1: back to what he says, he says with that with adderall,

985
00:52:12,840 --> 00:52:16,200
Speaker 1: one could easily work eighteen hours days, pass out and

986
00:52:16,400 --> 00:52:19,279
Speaker 1: keep going. Personally, I could keep this up for a

987
00:52:19,480 --> 00:52:22,520
Speaker 1: week before I began to feel tired. Now I was

988
00:52:22,600 --> 00:52:25,200
Speaker 1: no pilot, he says, just a dumb guy. You don't

989
00:52:25,200 --> 00:52:27,560
Speaker 1: sound like a dumb guy from this message, man, But

990
00:52:27,760 --> 00:52:31,000
Speaker 1: uppers are the savior of the modern military. Painkillers are

991
00:52:31,040 --> 00:52:33,960
Speaker 1: also very commonplace. There's a running joke that the longer

992
00:52:34,000 --> 00:52:36,240
Speaker 1: you're in the more pain killers you take in the morning.

993
00:52:36,680 --> 00:52:39,560
Speaker 1: Concerning steroids, I know a few guys who were on them,

994
00:52:39,640 --> 00:52:42,120
Speaker 1: but it wasn't to make them better killers. They just

995
00:52:42,400 --> 00:52:45,560
Speaker 1: like to look big. Did it help in fights, absolutely,

996
00:52:45,680 --> 00:52:48,560
Speaker 1: but it wasn't the purpose because they were illegal under

997
00:52:48,600 --> 00:52:51,680
Speaker 1: the Uniform Code of Military Justice. I didn't partake, but

998
00:52:52,040 --> 00:52:55,120
Speaker 1: if I could have legally, I definitely would have, because

999
00:52:55,200 --> 00:52:59,560
Speaker 1: not being extremely strong is not something your buddies take well. Okay,

1000
00:52:59,600 --> 00:53:01,480
Speaker 1: so Joe a stuff. Actually there's a lot more to

1001
00:53:01,640 --> 00:53:03,719
Speaker 1: his letter here, but I don't think we have time

1002
00:53:03,800 --> 00:53:05,719
Speaker 1: for it in this episode to read the whole thing.

1003
00:53:05,920 --> 00:53:08,400
Speaker 1: Suffice to say, he provides us a look at a

1004
00:53:08,480 --> 00:53:10,680
Speaker 1: day in the life of a marine. He also talks

1005
00:53:10,680 --> 00:53:14,560
Speaker 1: about PTSD and and uh. He liked our reference to

1006
00:53:14,880 --> 00:53:19,280
Speaker 1: minimaxing again video game terminology in terms of being in service.

1007
00:53:20,120 --> 00:53:22,800
Speaker 1: I also want to throw in here that we received

1008
00:53:23,080 --> 00:53:25,960
Speaker 1: some feedback from few listeners who pointed out some World

1009
00:53:26,000 --> 00:53:29,680
Speaker 1: War Two era uses of meth amphetamine. In particular, I

1010
00:53:29,800 --> 00:53:34,600
Speaker 1: think Panza's chocolade came up, as well as a stucco tabletin,

1011
00:53:34,960 --> 00:53:37,120
Speaker 1: and those were on the German side of Yeah, and there,

1012
00:53:37,239 --> 00:53:40,000
Speaker 1: but there are some other examples from World War Two

1013
00:53:40,040 --> 00:53:41,800
Speaker 1: as well, So that's something we might come back and

1014
00:53:41,880 --> 00:53:44,439
Speaker 1: look at in more detail at some point. Uh really

1015
00:53:44,480 --> 00:53:49,040
Speaker 1: look at sort of the the the World War chemical

1016
00:53:49,200 --> 00:53:52,920
Speaker 1: rise of methamphetamines. It might also be interesting to look

1017
00:53:52,960 --> 00:53:55,200
Speaker 1: at drugs at the top of the Nazi chain. I

1018
00:53:55,280 --> 00:53:58,080
Speaker 1: know there's a lot of interesting stuff now about about

1019
00:53:58,160 --> 00:54:00,759
Speaker 1: like Hitler and top Nazi commander is in their and

1020
00:54:00,840 --> 00:54:04,560
Speaker 1: their drug use habits. Yeah, yeah, Herman Goring pills and uh,

1021
00:54:06,000 --> 00:54:10,680
Speaker 1: I seem to recall talk of intravenous methem fetamine used

1022
00:54:10,760 --> 00:54:14,359
Speaker 1: by Adolf Hitler. Is that right? I I can't vow

1023
00:54:14,440 --> 00:54:16,799
Speaker 1: for the better remember seeing some speculation on that at

1024
00:54:16,840 --> 00:54:20,120
Speaker 1: least worth revisiting in the future. Okay, we got one

1025
00:54:20,200 --> 00:54:22,879
Speaker 1: more for you, and it is one coming in from

1026
00:54:22,960 --> 00:54:26,120
Speaker 1: our listener Stephanie, in response to the episode we did

1027
00:54:26,200 --> 00:54:28,760
Speaker 1: way back, Christian and I did a two parter about

1028
00:54:29,080 --> 00:54:31,640
Speaker 1: the failings of forensic science. Yeah, a lot of people

1029
00:54:31,680 --> 00:54:35,319
Speaker 1: wrote into us and actually asked for more, So maybe

1030
00:54:35,400 --> 00:54:37,960
Speaker 1: that's something will revisit in the future. But if you

1031
00:54:38,280 --> 00:54:41,160
Speaker 1: recall that was a while ago. The basic idea was

1032
00:54:41,400 --> 00:54:44,279
Speaker 1: that um that there is a lot of research now

1033
00:54:44,400 --> 00:54:49,440
Speaker 1: indicating that some of the major uses of forensic science

1034
00:54:49,680 --> 00:54:52,759
Speaker 1: in the justice system in the United States have been

1035
00:54:53,200 --> 00:54:57,680
Speaker 1: not so great that sometimes in valid methodologies. Yeah, like

1036
00:54:58,120 --> 00:55:02,280
Speaker 1: some methods used to produce evidence that supposedly scientifically solid

1037
00:55:02,320 --> 00:55:05,200
Speaker 1: evidence to defend people or convict people is actually just

1038
00:55:05,480 --> 00:55:09,320
Speaker 1: based on you know, mythology of the culture of the

1039
00:55:09,440 --> 00:55:12,600
Speaker 1: fire investigator or something like that. So there's a bunch

1040
00:55:12,640 --> 00:55:14,399
Speaker 1: of stuff like that, and that's what we talked about

1041
00:55:14,440 --> 00:55:15,920
Speaker 1: in the episode. There's a bunch more we could have

1042
00:55:15,960 --> 00:55:19,480
Speaker 1: talked about, but anyway, here's where Stephanie comes in. She says, Hi, Fellas,

1043
00:55:20,440 --> 00:55:22,520
Speaker 1: I'm catching up on your recent podcasts, and the ones

1044
00:55:22,600 --> 00:55:27,200
Speaker 1: regarding forensic failings caught my attention. I'm an experimental psychologist

1045
00:55:27,280 --> 00:55:30,080
Speaker 1: and I graduated from the University of Wyoming with an

1046
00:55:30,120 --> 00:55:33,360
Speaker 1: emphasis in psychology and law. Needless to say, it is

1047
00:55:33,400 --> 00:55:36,600
Speaker 1: a fascinating and fruitful area of research, some of which

1048
00:55:36,680 --> 00:55:40,239
Speaker 1: focused specifically on the failures of eye witness memory. And

1049
00:55:40,360 --> 00:55:42,440
Speaker 1: we did mention that in the episode. How bad eye

1050
00:55:42,440 --> 00:55:46,240
Speaker 1: witness memory is, She says, since you mentioned the Innocence

1051
00:55:46,320 --> 00:55:49,680
Speaker 1: Project and that's a uh an advocacy group that we

1052
00:55:49,800 --> 00:55:52,400
Speaker 1: mentioned in the episode. She says, since you mentioned the

1053
00:55:52,440 --> 00:55:55,320
Speaker 1: Innocence Project, I'm sure you already know that over seventy

1054
00:55:55,800 --> 00:56:00,319
Speaker 1: of their exonorees were originally incriminated using eyewitness test money.

1055
00:56:00,640 --> 00:56:04,120
Speaker 1: If you haven't already, I recommend reading quote Picking Cotton

1056
00:56:04,320 --> 00:56:08,680
Speaker 1: by Jennifer Thompson, a rape victim who misidentified her attacker

1057
00:56:08,920 --> 00:56:12,279
Speaker 1: and Ronald Cotton, the man she misidentified and who spent

1058
00:56:12,400 --> 00:56:16,040
Speaker 1: roughly eleven years in prison while innocent. To be fair,

1059
00:56:16,160 --> 00:56:19,280
Speaker 1: there are some procedures that may assist in lowering systemic

1060
00:56:19,360 --> 00:56:23,320
Speaker 1: causes of misidentification. Some of these, and again the Innocence Project,

1061
00:56:23,400 --> 00:56:27,759
Speaker 1: has a website containing great information, include the following lineups.

1062
00:56:28,200 --> 00:56:31,600
Speaker 1: Selecting fillers for lineups that actually match the description of

1063
00:56:31,680 --> 00:56:34,840
Speaker 1: the eye witness. There are cases where people of different

1064
00:56:35,040 --> 00:56:38,480
Speaker 1: races were used as fillers, which only serve to highlight

1065
00:56:38,560 --> 00:56:41,920
Speaker 1: the suspect. Also, having the lineup administered by someone who

1066
00:56:42,000 --> 00:56:45,080
Speaker 1: do who does not know who the suspect is as

1067
00:56:45,160 --> 00:56:49,080
Speaker 1: having verbal and nonverbal clues, may lead the eyewitness to

1068
00:56:49,160 --> 00:56:52,439
Speaker 1: an individual. The instructions given during a lineup are also

1069
00:56:52,560 --> 00:56:55,439
Speaker 1: crucial and eye witness her victim, as in the case

1070
00:56:55,520 --> 00:56:58,200
Speaker 1: of Jennifer Thompson, is under a great deal of pressure

1071
00:56:58,239 --> 00:57:01,560
Speaker 1: to identify the attacker. Saying something as simple as the

1072
00:57:01,640 --> 00:57:04,720
Speaker 1: perpetrator may not be in the lineup can help relieve

1073
00:57:04,880 --> 00:57:07,680
Speaker 1: that pressure and give the eye witness permission to not

1074
00:57:07,920 --> 00:57:12,719
Speaker 1: select someone. The Innocence Project also suggests getting confident statements

1075
00:57:13,120 --> 00:57:16,160
Speaker 1: from the eye witnesses having him her rate his or

1076
00:57:16,240 --> 00:57:19,720
Speaker 1: her level of confidence in the selection of the individual

1077
00:57:19,880 --> 00:57:23,520
Speaker 1: from the lineup. However, research indicates that the confidence one

1078
00:57:23,680 --> 00:57:27,520
Speaker 1: feels does not always positively correlate with accuracy. This holds

1079
00:57:27,560 --> 00:57:29,400
Speaker 1: up from a lot of stuff I've read where people

1080
00:57:29,440 --> 00:57:34,480
Speaker 1: will sometimes misidentify someone in eye witness testimony and say, yep,

1081
00:57:34,760 --> 00:57:37,640
Speaker 1: that was him, I know it. And also we've done

1082
00:57:38,080 --> 00:57:41,760
Speaker 1: brain stuff episodes on how confident people think they are

1083
00:57:42,000 --> 00:57:45,200
Speaker 1: about things, and they often report themselves as feeling very

1084
00:57:45,280 --> 00:57:48,120
Speaker 1: confident in things when they have the least amount of

1085
00:57:48,480 --> 00:57:52,880
Speaker 1: expertise or actual confidence participating those I forget. There's a

1086
00:57:53,200 --> 00:57:55,600
Speaker 1: terminology for are you talking about the dunning Kruger Effe's

1087
00:57:56,000 --> 00:57:58,440
Speaker 1: dunning cruer. Yeah, that has to do with like, the

1088
00:57:58,600 --> 00:58:01,760
Speaker 1: lower your level of skill in a particular task is

1089
00:58:01,920 --> 00:58:04,720
Speaker 1: the higher you rate your skill I could see your

1090
00:58:04,760 --> 00:58:07,960
Speaker 1: relation here. Possibly you don't know how little you know

1091
00:58:08,160 --> 00:58:11,840
Speaker 1: about how to do it, but anyway, uh So, continuing

1092
00:58:11,880 --> 00:58:16,880
Speaker 1: with Stephanie's email, she also mentions photographs. Photographic lineups, she

1093
00:58:16,960 --> 00:58:19,760
Speaker 1: says should also follow the same suggested procedure as in

1094
00:58:19,880 --> 00:58:24,120
Speaker 1: person lineups. Additionally, however, the pictures should be shown consecutively

1095
00:58:24,280 --> 00:58:27,600
Speaker 1: rather than concurrently as we often see on TV. This

1096
00:58:27,760 --> 00:58:31,040
Speaker 1: reduces the chance that the eyewitness will make a relative judgment,

1097
00:58:31,160 --> 00:58:34,960
Speaker 1: meaning one individual looks the most like the perpetrator, so

1098
00:58:35,160 --> 00:58:39,080
Speaker 1: that must be the guy. As an aside, my dissertation,

1099
00:58:39,160 --> 00:58:41,640
Speaker 1: which I hope to publish soon, was on the accuracy

1100
00:58:41,840 --> 00:58:45,200
Speaker 1: or inaccuracy as I found, of memory in the elderly.

1101
00:58:45,640 --> 00:58:49,520
Speaker 1: It was formatted after Steve Chechi's famous mouse trap study

1102
00:58:49,560 --> 00:58:52,720
Speaker 1: in response to the daycare scandals of the nineteen eighties,

1103
00:58:53,040 --> 00:58:55,840
Speaker 1: in which he asked children simple questions, some of which

1104
00:58:55,920 --> 00:58:59,439
Speaker 1: were implausible. Over the course of many weeks, he found

1105
00:58:59,480 --> 00:59:02,200
Speaker 1: that children would start to form memories of the events

1106
00:59:02,240 --> 00:59:06,360
Speaker 1: specified in the questions. Similarly, I found that after only

1107
00:59:06,440 --> 00:59:08,520
Speaker 1: a few weeks of asking those over the age of

1108
00:59:08,600 --> 00:59:11,880
Speaker 1: sixty five similar questions, I had them telling me their

1109
00:59:11,960 --> 00:59:15,200
Speaker 1: memories of events that did not actually happen to them,

1110
00:59:15,560 --> 00:59:18,240
Speaker 1: e g. They were struck by lightning while riding a

1111
00:59:18,320 --> 00:59:22,000
Speaker 1: bike in a rainstorm. So this ties into the Satanic

1112
00:59:22,040 --> 00:59:25,160
Speaker 1: Panic episodes that we did well back. But both that

1113
00:59:25,360 --> 00:59:28,720
Speaker 1: and our episodes where we've been recently talking about how

1114
00:59:28,840 --> 00:59:32,320
Speaker 1: memories are formed and how we're every time we're recalling

1115
00:59:32,360 --> 00:59:35,080
Speaker 1: a memory, we're rewriting that memory. I also have read

1116
00:59:35,200 --> 00:59:38,720
Speaker 1: separately about totally different research along these lines, where the

1117
00:59:38,840 --> 00:59:42,400
Speaker 1: experiments where if you can just get people to say

1118
00:59:42,560 --> 00:59:45,440
Speaker 1: they did something, over time, they will start to remember

1119
00:59:45,600 --> 00:59:49,120
Speaker 1: having actually done it. So you get some students to say, like,

1120
00:59:49,680 --> 00:59:53,280
Speaker 1: just read these prepared statements, you know, I have fallen

1121
00:59:53,320 --> 00:59:57,560
Speaker 1: in love with a dictionary. Um, And then later you

1122
00:59:57,720 --> 00:59:59,800
Speaker 1: ask them like do you remember falling in love with

1123
00:59:59,840 --> 01:00:02,720
Speaker 1: the dictionary? And they'll be like, yeah, yeah, that I

1124
01:00:02,800 --> 01:00:05,880
Speaker 1: guess that did happen. It's heartbreaking. Did you guys watch

1125
01:00:06,000 --> 01:00:09,760
Speaker 1: Making a Murderer? Yes? No I didn't. I don't want

1126
01:00:09,800 --> 01:00:11,680
Speaker 1: to say anything, but it's related to that. Well. Yeah,

1127
01:00:11,760 --> 01:00:14,080
Speaker 1: so anyway that the whole thing is Yet again, this

1128
01:00:14,320 --> 01:00:16,360
Speaker 1: comes up over and over on the show. Our memories

1129
01:00:16,400 --> 01:00:18,360
Speaker 1: are just not as good as we think they are.

1130
01:00:18,480 --> 01:00:24,200
Speaker 1: We're really really prone to to false memory implantation and recall. Um.

1131
01:00:24,360 --> 01:00:28,560
Speaker 1: But anyway, so Stephanie continues evidence that protocols must be

1132
01:00:28,640 --> 01:00:31,280
Speaker 1: put in place to prevent, to the best of our abilities,

1133
01:00:31,280 --> 01:00:35,760
Speaker 1: faulty eyewitness identification. I could go on. There are many suggestions,

1134
01:00:35,800 --> 01:00:39,200
Speaker 1: including areas such as interviews and even protecting eye witnesses

1135
01:00:39,280 --> 01:00:42,240
Speaker 1: from the suspecting court. I'd be happy to assist should

1136
01:00:42,240 --> 01:00:45,200
Speaker 1: you want to do an episode on eyewitness memory. Keep

1137
01:00:45,240 --> 01:00:48,560
Speaker 1: up the good work. So thank you, Stephanie. UH and

1138
01:00:48,840 --> 01:00:51,480
Speaker 1: that is that was an awesome message. Yeah, this is

1139
01:00:51,560 --> 01:00:55,560
Speaker 1: certainly a topic that we're interested in, and I think

1140
01:00:55,600 --> 01:00:58,160
Speaker 1: that there's going to be more and more research coming

1141
01:00:58,200 --> 01:01:02,040
Speaker 1: out in contemporary academic glitter nature. That's finding newer and

1142
01:01:02,160 --> 01:01:06,400
Speaker 1: better ways to do forensic science, but also that's evaluating

1143
01:01:06,440 --> 01:01:09,360
Speaker 1: the methodologies that are currently in place. Sure, hopefully we'll

1144
01:01:09,400 --> 01:01:12,120
Speaker 1: return to it in the future. All right, Well, you know,

1145
01:01:12,440 --> 01:01:15,040
Speaker 1: I don't want to cause any alarm here, but Carney

1146
01:01:15,080 --> 01:01:18,720
Speaker 1: appears to have finished his self virus scan. He appears

1147
01:01:18,720 --> 01:01:22,120
Speaker 1: to have rebooted and may have rebooted in uh in

1148
01:01:22,280 --> 01:01:25,080
Speaker 1: combat mode, So we might need to clear out of here.

1149
01:01:25,280 --> 01:01:27,360
Speaker 1: What are these pop ups saying we have to import

1150
01:01:27,440 --> 01:01:30,720
Speaker 1: a credit card number before we can properly load the

1151
01:01:30,760 --> 01:01:34,240
Speaker 1: operating system. Who. I wouldn't argue with him right now though,

1152
01:01:34,640 --> 01:01:37,240
Speaker 1: better better pull out to either of you have some

1153
01:01:37,440 --> 01:01:40,840
Speaker 1: jet that I can take. Um, I think Carney has

1154
01:01:40,920 --> 01:01:43,160
Speaker 1: some jet, but I don't know if you want him

1155
01:01:43,160 --> 01:01:47,440
Speaker 1: to administer it. I don't know, Psycho Jetta. All right, Hey,

1156
01:01:47,800 --> 01:01:49,600
Speaker 1: if you want to check out the episodes that we

1157
01:01:49,680 --> 01:01:54,000
Speaker 1: talked about here, look up old episodes, new episodes, etcetera.

1158
01:01:54,200 --> 01:01:56,240
Speaker 1: Head on over to stuff of All your Mind dot com.

1159
01:01:56,360 --> 01:01:58,520
Speaker 1: That is the mothership. That's where you'll find all the

1160
01:01:58,680 --> 01:02:01,360
Speaker 1: podcast episodes we've evercord it. You will find videos, you'll

1161
01:02:01,360 --> 01:02:03,120
Speaker 1: find blog posts, and you will find links out to

1162
01:02:03,160 --> 01:02:05,880
Speaker 1: our varied social media accounts. Yeah. In fact, those social

1163
01:02:05,920 --> 01:02:08,120
Speaker 1: media accounts are where some of these letters that we

1164
01:02:08,240 --> 01:02:10,360
Speaker 1: read today come from. So if you want to reach

1165
01:02:10,400 --> 01:02:13,640
Speaker 1: out to us on those that's your uh, your your poison.

1166
01:02:14,400 --> 01:02:17,920
Speaker 1: Reach out to us on Facebook, Twitter, Tumbler or I

1167
01:02:17,960 --> 01:02:19,360
Speaker 1: don't know. It would be tough to write us a

1168
01:02:19,400 --> 01:02:22,080
Speaker 1: long letter on Instagram, but you can give it a try. Uh.

1169
01:02:22,320 --> 01:02:25,160
Speaker 1: We are available on all those platforms as Blow the Mind,

1170
01:02:25,520 --> 01:02:26,920
Speaker 1: And if you want to get in touch with us

1171
01:02:26,960 --> 01:02:29,920
Speaker 1: directly by email. As always, you can hit us directly.

1172
01:02:30,240 --> 01:02:32,919
Speaker 1: I just said directly, you can email us. That blow

1173
01:02:33,000 --> 01:02:44,560
Speaker 1: the mind. At how stuff Works on dot com for

1174
01:02:44,720 --> 01:02:47,000
Speaker 1: more on this and thousands of other topics. Is it

1175
01:02:47,080 --> 01:03:04,600
Speaker 1: how stuff works dot com? Many is jointed or part

1176
01:03:04,760 --> 01:03:05,480
Speaker 1: prop