Speaker 1: I miss a green, for example, I'm already upset. When
Speaker 1: I find my ball in the bunker, I'm really upset.
Speaker 1: And when I find my ball in a frid Egg
Speaker 1: Friday Egg, the dreaded Friday Egg, Friday, Frida Frida Egg
Speaker 1: Bride Egg Lie, I'm about ready to run off the
Speaker 1: golf course.
Speaker 2: Ladies and gentlemen, Welcome back to another edition of the
Speaker 2: Frida Egg Podcast. Today, I'm joined by Kyle Nathan and
Speaker 2: we'd like to welcome on Golf Channel personality former PGA
Speaker 2: Tour winner and author of The Anatomy of Greatness, Brandal
Speaker 2: Chamblie Brandle. How's it going today, I'm fabulous. Nice to
Speaker 2: join you guys, Kyle Andy. I follow you guys on Twitter.
Speaker 2: I enjoy your work, So it's nice sit down and
Speaker 2: talk a little golf with you guys.
Speaker 3: Absolutely, thanks for stopping by.
Speaker 1: Yeah, real pleasure. I'm sure you're happy to get out
Speaker 1: of Chicago and come up here to the PGA Merchandise
Speaker 1: Show this week. It's like the whole world of golf
Speaker 1: is descended upon this spot. So it's a it's a
Speaker 1: it's an entertaining and vibrant week.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's there's an eclectic group of people out on
Speaker 2: that floor.
Speaker 1: Yes, there is everybody from last year when I went.
Speaker 1: You know, you run into every sort of entrepreneur you
Speaker 1: you could you could imagine, you know, and they'd all
Speaker 1: have some gadget that they'd spent ten years on, and
Speaker 1: you know, you try it and you're like, yeah, there's
Speaker 1: absolutely validity to this. You know, you know a way
Speaker 1: to go and you know, next thing, you know, ten
Speaker 1: of a merchant house, and the next thing ten just like,
Speaker 1: oh my gosh, I wouldn't have time to try all
Speaker 1: these things out. But it's there's so much energy there
Speaker 1: and you realize that, you know, the world of golf,
Speaker 1: you know, there's so much invested in it, time, resources, money, passion,
Speaker 1: and everybody with any sort of pass is here this week.
Speaker 1: It's there's two places where the world of golf really congregates,
Speaker 1: maybe three here this week, PGA Merchandise Show, Augusta and
Speaker 1: the Open Championship. Seems like everybody in the world goes
Speaker 1: to those three events.
Speaker 2: I think something that is often overlooked with golf, and
Speaker 2: it is shown here through all like these gadgets, is
Speaker 2: that golf's unlike any other sport where you have an
Speaker 2: inverse relationship between like PGA Tour fans. So you figure
Speaker 2: there's probably like three million, four million people that regularly
Speaker 2: watch the PGA Tour, but twenty five million golfers. But
Speaker 2: if you look at the NBA, you have hundreds of
Speaker 2: millions of fans and there's probably only about a million
Speaker 2: people that actually play basketball regularly.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's a good point. You know, same thing is
Speaker 1: probably true with football. I mean, who plays football once
Speaker 1: you get out of high school? And yet you know
Speaker 1: it's you know, as they said in the movie, that
Speaker 1: they've got a day of the week. You know, golf
Speaker 1: is different. You know, to play it is is wonderful
Speaker 1: because you get to get outdoors and you get to
Speaker 1: know people, even your own family, in a way you
Speaker 1: don't befoor. But to watch it on TV, well it's
Speaker 1: it's not loud, nobody's running into each other, it's not violent.
Speaker 1: You know, when I've fallen asleep more times than you know,
Speaker 1: watching golf telecast is what I do not anymore because
Speaker 1: I have to pay attention to it and to talk
Speaker 1: specifically about it. But you go home, you put the
Speaker 1: golf on, you'd fall asleep somewhere in the front nine.
Speaker 1: You'd wake up when they're on fourteen or fifteen, you
Speaker 1: go get a play to nachos, and you come back
Speaker 1: and watch the end of it. It was like, what was
Speaker 1: better than that? You know, you can't fall asleep to
Speaker 1: a football game.
Speaker 2: That's something I always say. It's one of my favorite
Speaker 2: things is how you can just fall asleep on the
Speaker 2: couch and wake back up and you're.
Speaker 1: Like, are they're still make three birdies? Exactly? But now
Speaker 1: now I can go back and see how they made it.
Speaker 1: Before I go, I have no idea. I've been asleep
Speaker 1: for an hour and a half. How the hell that
Speaker 1: guy make three birdies in a row? Now you know,
Speaker 1: I have shot link on my computer, So I go back.
Speaker 1: I'm like, oh god, he did, so where is that shot?
Speaker 1: I got to see it? Then of course you can
Speaker 1: go to Twitter and find it because somebody will post it.
Speaker 2: Yeah. So to kick things off, we had a big
Speaker 2: week on professional golf with three big name Euros winning
Speaker 2: and would love to if the Ryder Cup was played today,
Speaker 2: who would you pick to win?
Speaker 1: Well, it was played today in Paris, I'd probably pick Europe. Ye.
Speaker 1: I was driving around the other day and you know,
Speaker 1: something came on the radio about the US was going
Speaker 1: to dominate, and look, I mean, they've got an unprecedented
Speaker 1: number of young players. But you start to think about Europe,
Speaker 1: John Rahm and Tommy Fleetwood and Roy mackerel and Sergio Garcia,
Speaker 1: John Peters, mean Rose, justin Rose. It looks like Paul
Speaker 1: Casey's going to play on that, you know, I mean,
Speaker 1: nobody would be surprised if Paul Casey made the team.
Speaker 1: And I mean those are just off the top of
Speaker 1: our head, you know. If you start to go down
Speaker 1: a little further, like, oh gosh, she's the hell of
Speaker 1: a player, and you think they're going to be in Paris,
Speaker 1: they haven't won there since. They have won on four
Speaker 1: and solo of the US since nineteen ninety three. So
Speaker 1: I'd pick Europe, you know, I would, you know, I
Speaker 1: you know, I don't think it's a borgone conclusion that
Speaker 1: the competition is over. I don't even know where those
Speaker 1: thoughts come from. I think they're preposterous.
Speaker 3: I tend to agree with you. I would think I
Speaker 3: give him the choice. Personally, I would take Europe today,
Speaker 3: and you know, one of their leaders is obviously going
Speaker 3: to be John Rahm, who Andy has been a personal
Speaker 3: fan favorite of for about a year now. How long
Speaker 3: until we start talking about John Rahm as the best
Speaker 3: player in the world.
Speaker 1: Well, it's it's coming. You know, I can't imagine that
Speaker 1: he's going to topple Dustin Johnson off at the top
Speaker 1: spot for a while. But John Rom's in his early twenties.
Speaker 1: Dustin Johnson is sneaking up to his mid thirties, so
Speaker 1: you know, he has a sort of a shelf life there.
Speaker 1: His skills will start to deteriorate soon. You know, within
Speaker 1: a year or two, he'll he'll lose a little something
Speaker 1: off his fastball, and you know, it's just happens. And
Speaker 1: John ram is, you know, he's got another decade in
Speaker 1: his prime and he's got everything. You know, he really does.
Speaker 1: He's got everything. He's got the sort of savoy fair
Speaker 1: he's got the the arrogance which is so important, and
Speaker 1: the moment doesn't freeze him. You know, he didn't need
Speaker 1: an apprenticeship in the game of golf, which is so rare.
Speaker 1: It seems like we're getting more and more of that though.
Speaker 1: You know, Jordan Speth didn't need an apprenticeship. Roy McRoy
Speaker 1: didn't need an apprenticeship. Those are you know, that's three
Speaker 1: in the last seven years that have just come out
Speaker 1: of nowhere and immediately looked like they were world class players.
Speaker 1: You know, that's that's rare. Those players don't come along
Speaker 1: very often. That's why we were blown away at Tiger
Speaker 1: and Phil. So John Romill be the number one player
Speaker 1: in the world at some point would surprise nobody.
Speaker 3: Andy and I talked about yesterday about the level of
Speaker 3: consistency he's played with, which I mean he's in the
Speaker 3: top ten fifteen literally every single week, and who the
Speaker 3: last player to be as consistent as he has been,
Speaker 3: And the only name we really could come up with
Speaker 3: was Tiger.
Speaker 1: Well that's about right. Yeah, I mean if you look
Speaker 1: at if you look at his ascendency to where he's
Speaker 1: at in the world rankings. It's of course when you
Speaker 1: start out, you don't have points falling off because you
Speaker 1: haven't played any so you're just gaining them in the
Speaker 1: world rankings. But yeah, you're right, I mean, not like Tiger,
Speaker 1: nobody like Tiger, but more like Tiger than Justin Thomas,
Speaker 1: you know, I mean, even just Thomas was a heck
Speaker 1: of a player, but nobody. You just don't see someone
Speaker 1: come along like a John Rahm. Yeah, you know. I
Speaker 1: always look at what intrigues me is where these players
Speaker 1: come from and how they play. It's not so much
Speaker 1: what they do, it's how they do it. And so
Speaker 1: when I look at Saya John Rahm and you think,
Speaker 1: how did he get here? How did he arrive on
Speaker 1: the on the scene with such it's not unprecedented. It's
Speaker 1: precocious really, because you're just not supposed to do those things.
Speaker 1: We saw it come up with Tiger, but generally you're
Speaker 1: just not supposed to do those things. There's been thirty
Speaker 1: one players that have ascended to the number one spot
Speaker 1: in the world. I am in the rankings, every one
Speaker 1: of them. You'd look at them and you go wow.
Speaker 1: You know. I go back and I've read about every
Speaker 1: one of those players, every single one of them. The
Speaker 1: very first one was Richie Ramsey back in two thousand
Speaker 1: and seven. And you go back and you read and there,
Speaker 1: can't miss, can't miss, He's number one of the world.
Speaker 1: Can't miss, no way he's going to miss. But of
Speaker 1: those thirty one, there are only nine that have managed
Speaker 1: to win PGA Tour events. Roy McRoy, Jordan Speth, Ricky Fowler,
Speaker 1: Danny Willett, Michael Thompson, Danny Lee, Hadeki Matsiyama, Patrick Cantley,
Speaker 1: and John Rumm. Now, of those nine, most of them,
Speaker 1: with the exception of Danny Willett, well, all of them,
Speaker 1: with the exception of Danny Willett, were either taught themselves
Speaker 1: to play, or they learned to play with just some
Speaker 1: local teacher around their area, and they never deviated from that.
Speaker 1: So and I'm not saying, and here's the fine point
Speaker 1: of it, I'm not saying that the information that everybody
Speaker 1: else is getting is bad at all. It's good information.
Speaker 1: I go back and I look at it, and I
Speaker 1: read it. It's good information. But we're in an age
Speaker 1: where there is so much information that it blows the
Speaker 1: circuits of players. I was involved in the very very
Speaker 1: same thing. I see it. I see a player, he
Speaker 1: comes out, he's the best player in the world, and
Speaker 1: he's got all this information, he got all this access.
Speaker 1: He changes coaches, he changes coaches, he changes coaches, he
Speaker 1: changes coaches, and the next thing you know, they're nowhere
Speaker 1: near the player that they were. So here's John Rohm.
Speaker 1: No one would teach that golf swing. No one just
Speaker 1: came out of nowhere, and he doesn't play with the
Speaker 1: sort of timidity that somebody does who's constantly looking at
Speaker 1: a screen and feeling like he needs to change something.
Speaker 1: So there is you know that I pay attention to that.
Speaker 1: That matters to me because how do you get the
Speaker 1: best out of an athlete? How do they play their best?
Speaker 1: Is it with information or is it with freedom? More
Speaker 1: times than not, it's with freedom.
Speaker 3: That's really interesting. It sounds like feel and I think
Speaker 3: maybe the ability to adapt because you know your own
Speaker 3: swing so well sounds so important.
Speaker 1: Well that's true, but you know, if you're think about it,
Speaker 1: it doesn't matter. You pick the player. We go look
Speaker 1: at a video screen. With the exception of Adam Scott,
Speaker 1: you can find a fault in their golf swing very quickly.
Speaker 1: It doesn't matter wherever they're at. You'll find a fault
Speaker 1: with their grip, their takeaway, some point in their backswing,
Speaker 1: their transition. I can pick it apart, so can every
Speaker 1: other teacher. Okay, we can pick it apart. We can
Speaker 1: find fault with it. Now, if you're looking for perfection, swing, perfection, everything,
Speaker 1: perf we're gonna get perfect. There's this, there's this, there's this,
Speaker 1: and you sit there and you're like, well, you're not
Speaker 1: quite there yet. You're not quite there yet. And every
Speaker 1: time you look at that video, you're reminded of something
Speaker 1: that's inadequate about your move. In time, that timidity grows,
Speaker 1: you lose your confidence and you're seeking, you know, perfection.
Speaker 1: If when you see perfection, you're literally seeking something that
Speaker 1: does not exist. You're chasing something that doesn't exist. John
Speaker 1: Ram is not chasing perfection. He's chasing wins. He's going
Speaker 1: somewhere with his game. A lot of people are trying
Speaker 1: to go somewhere with their golf swing. And that's the
Speaker 1: fine point of it.
Speaker 3: So in your own golf game, I know you're, you know,
Speaker 3: about as knowledgeable about the swing as anybody. Did you
Speaker 3: find yourself trying to perfect the swing too much?
Speaker 1: I did? You know? I was a great player in college,
Speaker 1: one of the two or three best players in the country.
Speaker 1: You know, I was extraordinary. I could hit it far,
Speaker 1: I could hit it long, high, straight, curve it any direction.
Speaker 1: I was amazing. But when I, for whatever reason, when
Speaker 1: I got out onto where, all of a sudden, you're
Speaker 1: surrounded by people that have great knowledge of the golf swing,
Speaker 1: and and they're just there, They're around you constantly, and
Speaker 1: inevitably you start talking to them, and then what they
Speaker 1: say makes sense. You know, that makes sense, So you
Speaker 1: try it, and then you try it and it doesn't work,
Speaker 1: or it does work, and then you try it and
Speaker 1: the next thing, you know, the golf swing I played
Speaker 1: on the tour with for a better part of fifteen
Speaker 1: years looked nothing like the swing I had in college.
Speaker 1: You know, I didn't even I go back now. I
Speaker 1: look at my swing in college, and I look at
Speaker 1: the swing I was playing on the tour with them,
Speaker 1: like they're not even the same person. I'm I now
Speaker 1: swing like I did in college, and I swing that
Speaker 1: way only because I know now that that is the
Speaker 1: way to swing a golf club. That all the things
Speaker 1: that I was being taught were wrong. I mean, if
Speaker 1: they were doctors, they should be sued from malpractice. They
Speaker 1: were just wrong, out of their minds wrong. So I
Speaker 1: I you know, I lived it. You know, I went
Speaker 1: to many of the top one hundred teachers, there's many
Speaker 1: of them, studied their ideas and then took them out
Speaker 1: and tried to make them work. And I'm I was
Speaker 1: an athlete. I could do anything. I could make anything work.
Speaker 1: And that's what I see. If you get out on tour,
Speaker 1: if you're good enough to get out on tour, you're extraordinary.
Speaker 1: You're an extraordinary athlete. You can do anything. You take
Speaker 1: me to a fair, we walk away with all the
Speaker 1: big toys, you know, and every tour players that way.
Speaker 1: They can throw balls, they can catch balls, they can
Speaker 1: move any So I can make anything work, and so
Speaker 1: can tour players. So you know, you're convinced through your
Speaker 1: own athleticism and your ability to do things, that there
Speaker 1: might be merit to whatever it is you're trying. You know,
Speaker 1: with me, it was rotate the face, keep the club
Speaker 1: head outside your hands, resist with the turn, squat down
Speaker 1: in the right leg, feel the tension in the right leg,
Speaker 1: you know, snap, drag the club on the way back,
Speaker 1: and then quickly change direction. All these things. Next thing,
Speaker 1: you know, I'd go play with my buddies and they'd say, well,
Speaker 1: you're a change of direction is quick. Your backswing's not
Speaker 1: as long. Slow it down, And You're like, well, yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: I guess it is because I'm not turning, because I'm
Speaker 1: being told time and time again that I can hit
Speaker 1: it further without a turn because I build tension, you
Speaker 1: know that. And that's why I wrote and continue to
Speaker 1: write about that topic, is because it still pervades in
Speaker 1: the game of golf. It's still everywhere in the game
Speaker 1: of golf. I watched TV and I just see players
Speaker 1: restricting their turns, and I think it's just at some
Speaker 1: point they'll figure it out in their lives. It's wrong,
Speaker 1: but the thought still pervades the game of golf.
Speaker 2: It's funny. I'm not really I don't think about my
Speaker 2: golf swing that much. But since I started going to
Speaker 2: an instructor like eight years ago. He's a young guy,
Speaker 2: he's a buddy of a buddy, and I go there.
Speaker 2: I see him like a couple times a year. But
Speaker 2: we've got just a few things we work on. I
Speaker 2: never look at my swing on video and I'm playing
Speaker 2: the best golf of my life.
Speaker 1: Well that I mean that. That is a great teacher,
Speaker 1: you know, and they're don't get me wrong. There are
Speaker 1: a lot of great teachers out there, a lot and
Speaker 1: the genius of a great teachers that they can take
Speaker 1: everything they know and boil it down to something very simple,
Speaker 1: like you go get a lesson. They're not trying to
Speaker 1: show you how smart they are. They're just trying to
Speaker 1: help you become a better golfer. And you know, it
Speaker 1: can be as simple as you know, fill your hands
Speaker 1: on your right shoulder going back and on your left
Speaker 1: shoulder going to That could do it. You know, it's
Speaker 1: just as simple as that. Anything. You know, they don't
Speaker 1: they don't need to elaborate anymore. And then they certainly
Speaker 1: don't need to put your golf swing on video. Hank
Speaker 1: Haney told me the entire time he worked with Tiger Woods,
Speaker 1: I was had from two thousand and four to six
Speaker 1: seven years, six years, he only put his golf swing
Speaker 1: on the video. A handful of times they didn't. They
Speaker 1: didn't use video as a general rule. They would just
Speaker 1: talk about shots, you know, and and having a fluency
Speaker 1: of what Hank calls the nine shots.
Speaker 2: It's uh, do you think that track man has you know,
Speaker 2: diminished the naturalness of golf?
Speaker 1: Well, you know, track Man is is interesting. I have
Speaker 1: it in the past, called it a toy, and you know,
Speaker 1: the more accurate word is a luxury. It was a luxury.
Speaker 1: I would say it came about. You know, it started
Speaker 1: being pervasive on the PGA Tour in two thousand and six,
Speaker 1: and it's gone from being a luxury to being a necessity,
Speaker 1: you know, like your computer and your cell phone in
Speaker 1: a microwave and a TV. Initially they were luxuries, luxuries
Speaker 1: and now they're necessities. And I get it. If you're
Speaker 1: building equipment, there's a need for precision, the precision that
Speaker 1: you get from track Man, and I get it from
Speaker 1: a scientific standpoint of trying to understand exactly what's going on.
Speaker 1: That precision is needed. You need that, okay, and track
Speaker 1: Man gives you that. But the disconnect starts to happen
Speaker 1: when what is what a teacher needs it for precision
Speaker 1: in understanding what's happening in the golf swing, but it's
Speaker 1: not essential to a player. It has not been demonstrated
Speaker 1: to me that it has improved play on the PGA
Speaker 1: Tour if you go back and look in two thousand
Speaker 1: and six, when track Man first arrived on the PGA
Speaker 1: Tour twenty seventeen, so over a decade, players are more
Speaker 1: inaccurate off of the tee. They hit it further away
Speaker 1: from the hull. You know, scoring average has improved point
Speaker 1: two percent of a shot, so two tents of a shot.
Speaker 1: But most of that improvement, almost all of it is
Speaker 1: from their improvement on the greens. It's not from what
Speaker 1: the agronomy exactly. You're breeding my mind and better strokes agronomy.
Speaker 1: But what they're doing tee to green is not better,
Speaker 1: it's worse. They are hitting it further, no question about that.
Speaker 1: And maybe that's due to the observation that launch angle,
Speaker 1: optimizing launch angle and spin rate, and the idea that
Speaker 1: when you get on track man, people will talk about
Speaker 1: maximizing your length. Say to maximize your link, you have
Speaker 1: to hit up on it. Okay, that's in any video
Speaker 1: you'll watch on track Man, they'll talk to They'll say,
Speaker 1: in order to maximize your link, you need to hit
Speaker 1: on it. And I think that's important to amateur golfers,
Speaker 1: no question about it. You know most of them can
Speaker 1: hit up on it and pick up ten twenty thirty
Speaker 1: yards just like that. But in professional golf, you won't
Speaker 1: hear anybody say to maximize accuracy, you need to hit
Speaker 1: down on it slightly with your driver. Nobody will say that.
Speaker 1: They won't go there. But if one is true, shouldn't
Speaker 1: the opposite hold true. So, and the reason they won't
Speaker 1: is because there's no doubt on that they don't know.
Speaker 1: They don't know if hitting one degree down on or
Speaker 1: two degrees down on it actually does make you hit
Speaker 1: it straighter. But in my mind it does. So I
Speaker 1: think across the board you have people trying to hit
Speaker 1: it as far as they can by hitting it high
Speaker 1: with little spin. So they're three yards longer over a decade,
Speaker 1: but they hit it more in the rough, a fair
Speaker 1: amount rough, and they're further away from the hole, so
Speaker 1: they're not It's not essential that a player use it
Speaker 1: to get better because it hasn't made them better. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and we're talking we're not talking about one or two years.
Speaker 1: Here were over a decade. Four hundred professionals are carrying
Speaker 1: track man's with them right now. Four hundred carried around
Speaker 1: with them, and you know, it's not clear that it's
Speaker 1: made them better.
Speaker 2: Matt Fitzpatrick was on the No Laying Up podcast last
Speaker 2: week and he actually talked about how in the middle
Speaker 2: of last year he was chasing, trying to really get
Speaker 2: the most out of his distance, and the performance like
Speaker 2: he had a string of bad, really bad performances and
Speaker 2: he went back to, you know, hitting fairways. He realized
Speaker 2: how important it was for him to hit faaraways. And
Speaker 2: I think that's something that gets overlooked with guys that
Speaker 2: aren't mega long, is it's so important for them to
Speaker 2: hit fairaways because that's they get there's such a disadvantage
Speaker 2: in the rough they missed the fairway.
Speaker 1: So true, and you know, a fine point there for
Speaker 1: everybody is that when you get on track man inevitably
Speaker 1: the video goes, well you could hit it further if
Speaker 1: you hit it higher, Well, how do you hit it higher?
Speaker 1: You can just move the ball up a little bit.
Speaker 1: But inevitably it goes with either leaning your hips towards
Speaker 1: you know, moving your hips towards the target and changing
Speaker 1: your acess tilt where your you know, your your upper
Speaker 1: body leans backwards, or you change your release pattern. Either
Speaker 1: way you're changing something for a few extra yards. And
Speaker 1: if you don't have the power to hit it three ten,
Speaker 1: three twenty, it's very important. And Matthew Fitzpatrick doesn't need
Speaker 1: you need to find fairways. Again, you don't hear I
Speaker 1: don't hear many people and I go online and I
Speaker 1: watch them all. I watch their lessons. All these teachers,
Speaker 1: I just click on their lessons and I watch them
Speaker 1: and I listen to them, and I take notes, and
Speaker 1: I don't hear them talking about maximizing accuracy. I hear
Speaker 1: them talking a lot about maximizing distance, and then you know,
Speaker 1: obsessing about path and face angle. And they they will say,
Speaker 1: you go listen to them. They'll say, these are new
Speaker 1: ball flight laws. Like nobody knew this stuff before. Paul
Speaker 1: Runyon was a heck of a player back in the
Speaker 1: thirties and forties. He wrote a book and in that
Speaker 1: book he talks about if the club's going down the
Speaker 1: path is to the right, if the club's going up
Speaker 1: path is to the left. He knew it eighty years ago.
Speaker 1: He wrote about it eighty years ago. You know, I
Speaker 1: don't need to spend twenty five thousand dollars on a
Speaker 1: machine that's going to tell me that if I'm descending,
Speaker 1: my path is going to the right. You know what
Speaker 1: I used to do when I hit punch shots, I
Speaker 1: aimed left. I aimed left because when I hit punches
Speaker 1: they would go to the right. I've pretty much figured
Speaker 1: that because I was steeper hitting a punch shot, the
Speaker 1: path was to the right, so I aimed left. Do
Speaker 1: you know why most golfers in the history of the
Speaker 1: PGA Tour have aimed left off of the t because
Speaker 1: they're hitting one degree down on it. Generally speaking, a
Speaker 1: lot of them are hitting it, hitting more up on
Speaker 1: it now for distance, but they were hitting down on it,
Speaker 1: and they knew that they were hitting down on it.
Speaker 1: I mean maybe they didn't use those words, but they
Speaker 1: knew that when they tried to aim straight, the ball
Speaker 1: would start right, so they just opened up.
Speaker 2: I remember watching a pregame show where you said most
Speaker 2: of the great ball strikers and golf aimed left off
Speaker 2: the tee especially, and it's always stuck with me. And
Speaker 2: since I started aiming left, I've driven the ball a
Speaker 2: lot better.
Speaker 1: Well. Aim and left is it allows you to do
Speaker 1: so many things. You know, it allows you to build
Speaker 1: a nice brace into your right side going back and
Speaker 1: push off you know, your right leg, but it also
Speaker 1: allows you to clear faster and open up, which which
Speaker 1: holds off your release, and it gives you a more
Speaker 1: stable release through the ball. But all those things tor
Speaker 1: pros used to do instinctively.
Speaker 3: So speaking of technology and track man, obviously technology is
Speaker 3: a hot topic, not only this we in Orlando, but
Speaker 3: all across the PGA Tour. Where do you see the
Speaker 3: game evolving from here and with you know, obviously the
Speaker 3: golf ball and the clubs getting stronger and more powerful.
Speaker 3: Will PGA Tour courses be able to hold up over
Speaker 3: the testimony?
Speaker 1: Well, the line in the sand has been drawn. You know,
Speaker 1: there's something known as the rebound effect in the face.
Speaker 1: The drivers, you guys would know what it's called. Cor
Speaker 1: that line is drawn, you cannot have a face with
Speaker 1: any more rebound in it going forward. The volume of
Speaker 1: a head, the line in the sand is drawn, it
Speaker 1: can't get any bigger than four to sixty ccs. The
Speaker 1: moi then can't get any more. The moment of inertia
Speaker 1: can't get anymore. The length of a driver can't get anymore,
Speaker 1: the speed of a golf ball can't get any more. So,
Speaker 1: for the first time ever in the history of golf,
Speaker 1: the parameters for distance have been set. They're set in
Speaker 1: stone and they're not going to change. So, for the
Speaker 1: first time ever, any improvements in driving distance or accuracy,
Speaker 1: or greens and regulation or score can be rightly attributed
Speaker 1: to the athlete. You know, for the last twenty thirty years,
Speaker 1: every single time someone hit it further or there was
Speaker 1: a better scoring and it was always the equipment. Blame
Speaker 1: the ball, blame the clubs. And now you can actually
Speaker 1: look at the athlete and go wow. You know, I
Speaker 1: think since nineteen eighty to now, tour pros are thirty
Speaker 1: six yards longer thirty six yards, and there's a lot
Speaker 1: that makes up that thirty six yards. It's not just
Speaker 1: the ball. It's the rebound effect in the driver. It's
Speaker 1: the length of the driver, it's the forgiveness in the
Speaker 1: head which encourage you to just swing harder. It's the agronomy.
Speaker 1: And then finally it's the athlete. You know, you look
Speaker 1: at them, I mean they look like you know, Olympic athletes.
Speaker 1: They used to look like plumbers, and you know, they
Speaker 1: hit the ball further because of it. A lot of
Speaker 1: those factors. So now going forward, we're going to see
Speaker 1: cool stuff. They're going to have to figure out how
Speaker 1: to stabilize the face. Taylor mate's got a new driver,
Speaker 1: Calloway's got a new driver. You look at them and
Speaker 1: there's arts for both of them. They're really cool, but
Speaker 1: they're not about speed. They're about strength or about accuracy. More.
Speaker 2: Do you say the PGA tour folded tomorrow and you
Speaker 2: are the commissioner of a brand new tour, what would
Speaker 2: equipment look like?
Speaker 1: Oh, I wouldn't. I wouldn't change equipment. I wouldn't at all.
Speaker 1: I wouldn't roll back the equipment. I wouldn't roll back
Speaker 1: the ball. I'm you know. The the thing that was
Speaker 1: missed in equipment was originally there was supposed to be
Speaker 1: no rebound in the face, but drivers were made in
Speaker 1: the early nineties with rebound and the USGA didn't call
Speaker 1: kings X on the deal, and so the horse literally
Speaker 1: was out of the barn. And because they got a
Speaker 1: nice run, they felt like, for whatever reason, they weren't
Speaker 1: gonna retroactively disallow them. So I'm quite happy. But if
Speaker 1: I were the one thing I would do, if I
Speaker 1: were the commissioner of the PGA tours, I would implore
Speaker 1: the u s GA or rewrite the anchoring rule. You know,
Speaker 1: it's very vague, it is poorly applied, and it's caused
Speaker 1: a lot of acrimony, and you know, it's it's it's
Speaker 1: it's not fun to watch. So I would definitely have
Speaker 1: that I would either allow it or disallow it properly,
Speaker 1: with proper language.
Speaker 2: Yeah, like the I use the arm locked for a while,
Speaker 2: and I know Bryson uses it, Kutre uses it. How
Speaker 2: is that different than using like a belly putter.
Speaker 1: Well, yeah, I mean I hear that, you know. You know,
Speaker 1: my my response to that would be, is that the
Speaker 1: butt end of the club when you when you use
Speaker 1: a belly putter, you've you've created a folk rum when
Speaker 1: you when you lock your putter against your arm. Yeah,
Speaker 1: there is benefits to that, no question about it, but
Speaker 1: you you haven't created a full crumble. What I would
Speaker 1: argue is that and you know, look, I don't know.
Speaker 1: Maybe the answer is is that is that you have
Speaker 1: to have both hands on the club. You know, you
Speaker 1: have to have both hands on the putter. But then again,
Speaker 1: I've seen people put one handed, you know. Have you
Speaker 1: seen all these schnyder Dans do that? Have you seen him,
Speaker 1: I mean takes it back with two hands, hits it
Speaker 1: with one hand. You know, Mike Hulbert putted one handed
Speaker 1: for a while on the PGA tour. So you know,
Speaker 1: I would definitely address and talk to all the governing
Speaker 1: bodies about the clearing up the ambiguity and big Euwey
Speaker 1: ambiguous nature. Excuse me of the ruling on the anchored putter.
Speaker 3: So there's no question in your mind right now that
Speaker 3: there are people that are anchoring.
Speaker 1: Well, there's no question in my mind that they look
Speaker 1: like they're answered. You know, what they're doing is legal
Speaker 1: because you know they've looked quite closely at it, and
Speaker 1: those that are doing it explain it to those that
Speaker 1: are looking closely at it, and those that are in
Speaker 1: charge of making the rules say there is you know,
Speaker 1: there's nothing wrong here. It just looks like there is.
Speaker 1: I would argue, and I do argue, that if it
Speaker 1: touches your shirt, that that provides a soft anchor, it's
Speaker 1: well within the rules. So what they're doing is legal.
Speaker 1: I'm not saying it's not. But in my mind, if
Speaker 1: you touch your shirt, then I have some spatial awareness
Speaker 1: of where the fulcrum is, and I think personally that's
Speaker 1: an advantage. Billy Casper did the same thing. You know,
Speaker 1: he touched his left leg when he putt it. You know,
Speaker 1: it wasn't illegal then nobody even talked about it. It
Speaker 1: was just a stroke that was peculiar to him, and
Speaker 1: he was one of the great putters of all time.
Speaker 1: I'm writing a book right now on short game and putting,
Speaker 1: and Billy Casper will certainly be in it, no question
Speaker 1: about it, you know, because I love the way his
Speaker 1: putter had worked. But you know, at various times he
Speaker 1: touched his left leg with his putter, and to you
Speaker 1: know that that gives you spatial awareness where the full
Speaker 1: crum is. And it's difficult to write a rule that
Speaker 1: disallows somebody touching their clothes because at some point when
Speaker 1: you swing, say, if you've got a jacket on, it's
Speaker 1: going to touch your clothes, right if it's windy. I
Speaker 1: get the difficulty in the language and the ambiguity with
Speaker 1: the language. I get that, but I would make it
Speaker 1: a priority and then try to figure out how to
Speaker 1: because you know, in my mind it does provide a
Speaker 1: soft anchor, and that's what I call it. Again, they're
Speaker 1: well within their rules to do it. I tell the
Speaker 1: players that are doing it, it's clearly it's legal. Keep
Speaker 1: on at it. But if I were the commission of
Speaker 1: the tour, I would change that.
Speaker 3: I've definitely seen more close up of Longer's chest that
Speaker 3: I need to see for a whole.
Speaker 1: Right. It's like, you know, we've got this bizarre right,
Speaker 1: and that's because of the rule. We shouldn't be focusing
Speaker 1: on that. But the whole world of golf is because
Speaker 1: anytime you see you know, there's several players out there,
Speaker 1: it's not just Langer that are doing that. Your attention
Speaker 1: goes right to that spot and it takes away from
Speaker 1: what they're doing otherwise.
Speaker 2: So if you could take any of today's great players
Speaker 2: and pit them against a player of another generation, for
Speaker 2: like in their prime, for a live TV match, who
Speaker 2: what would the match be?
Speaker 1: Well, that's pretty easy.
Speaker 2: You know.
Speaker 1: Tiger two thousand against Jack sixty.
Speaker 2: Five today, player today, Oh.
Speaker 1: Player today right now against somebody? Oh well, Jordan Speaeth
Speaker 1: twenty fifteen against Tiger two thousand.
Speaker 3: You know, do you think that's comparable.
Speaker 1: No, there'll never be another Tiger ever. Tiger was shakes beer.
Speaker 1: You know, five hundred years from now, for the species survives,
Speaker 1: they'll be talking about Tiger Woods. You know, as the
Speaker 1: by far the greatest golfer of all time. You know,
Speaker 1: there's no bigger Jack Nicholas fan in the world than me,
Speaker 1: not only as a father and a the way he
Speaker 1: handled himself in the game and the way he played it.
Speaker 1: I never thought i'd see anything like him. But from
Speaker 1: just a purely golf standpoint, when I'm around people that
Speaker 1: say Jack was the better player, I'm like, well, you
Speaker 1: really haven't looked at it. Then Tiger's win percentage was double,
Speaker 1: his average margin of victory was double. You know, his
Speaker 1: wins five shots or more was a double. You know,
Speaker 1: you start running up against this at double twice as good.
Speaker 1: That's twice as good as Jack. A lot. When you
Speaker 1: start looking at Tiger and Jack twice as good, twice
Speaker 1: as good, twice as good, it pops up over and
Speaker 1: over and over.
Speaker 3: It And what we mentioned the athletes have you know,
Speaker 3: evolved for time to be better?
Speaker 1: Yes, I mean Jack was one hell of an athlete,
Speaker 1: no question about it. And Jack is and that look
Speaker 1: it's you say you can't compare errors. I hear it
Speaker 1: all the time. It's like, no, everybody does. You can.
Speaker 1: It's inconvenient because somebody's general gets demoted to corporal, you know,
Speaker 1: but you know you can. And I think it's important
Speaker 1: to study the best because it's like whatever worked is
Speaker 1: what does work? You know, what did Tiger did? What
Speaker 1: made him so good. I'd love to see that, you know,
Speaker 1: Rory McRoy at his best against Tiger or Jack or Hogan,
Speaker 1: you know, if you know, I'd love to see Tiger
Speaker 1: at his best, you know, Tiger two thousand against Hogan
Speaker 1: fifty three. You know, I'd give anything to see that,
Speaker 1: you know, you know, or the best would be you know,
Speaker 1: Bobby Jones in thirty, Jack sixty five or seventy two.
Speaker 1: Take your pick, Hogan fifty three, Tiger two thousand. You
Speaker 1: get those four, and that's that's the greatest golf that's
Speaker 1: ever been played. You know, there are a lot of
Speaker 1: good players in the game right now, but we were
Speaker 1: blessed to have been able to watch Tiger Woods. Absolutely. Yeah.
Speaker 3: Speaking of some of the you know, great classic swings,
Speaker 3: who's on your mount rushmore of golf swings.
Speaker 1: Well, Sam Snead, you know, there's you know, there are
Speaker 1: a lot of different ways to do that. I'm writing
Speaker 1: a book right now in the short game, but I'm
Speaker 1: halfway through a book that'll come out right after that.
Speaker 1: The third book, all right, is just the one hundred
Speaker 1: greatest swings of all time? Who had it, what they did?
Speaker 1: And so when you discuss that. Is it from an
Speaker 1: aesthetic standpoint? Is it from a success standpoint? You know
Speaker 1: what makes a great golf swing. But Calvin Pete will
Speaker 1: certainly be in there. You know, Calvin Pete is the
Speaker 1: straightest hitters ever played the game. And you know, I
Speaker 1: hear it over and over again when I say Calvin
Speaker 1: Pete's the straightest hitters ever play the game, and people
Speaker 1: are like, yeah because of his broken left arm, Like no, no,
Speaker 1: it is so quick. It doesn't matter. You choose a player,
Speaker 1: and it doesn't matter who it is, John Day, Bubba Watson.
Speaker 1: The way the world dismisses what they do is by
Speaker 1: calling them a freak or attributing their success to some
Speaker 1: idio secrecy, because I don't know why. People are just
Speaker 1: uncomfortable dealing with the move. The move they made is
Speaker 1: what made him a straight hitter. And Calvin Pete's move
Speaker 1: was very similar to Ben Hogan's. Now if we if
Speaker 1: they had statistics back then, I have no doubt that
Speaker 1: Ben Hogan would have hit it. You know, he'd have
Speaker 1: been in Calvin Pete's neighborhood, very very similar body motions.
Speaker 1: Hogan would have been longer because Hogan was a phenomenal athlete,
Speaker 1: so Ben Hogan, Sam's need Tiger Woods two thousand. You know,
Speaker 1: those those are the Mount Rushmore of golf swings.
Speaker 3: We have a golf gambling at game at all. You know,
Speaker 3: the guy in the middle plays the guy on the
Speaker 3: left and the guy on the right, and we call
Speaker 3: it the Calvin Peak game.
Speaker 1: Seriously, no kidding, Yeah, well, I mean, I'm just I'm
Speaker 1: amazed at how little people talk about his golf swing.
Speaker 1: You think about it. I'm around people all the time
Speaker 1: talking about golf swings, and they'll never ever bring up
Speaker 1: Calvin Pete's golf swing. Here's a guy that led driving
Speaker 1: accuracy ten years in a row. Whoever led driving accuracy
Speaker 1: last year, I'm trying to remember who it was. Anyway,
Speaker 1: whoever it was, I wrote it down, I forgot it.
Speaker 1: But they won't lead it this year, you know. And
Speaker 1: whoever let it five years ago didn't lead it the
Speaker 1: next year. You know. You know, Fred Funk had a
Speaker 1: nice run in there, Jerry Kelly, Joe Durant, Mike Read.
Speaker 1: You know, they very straight hitters, no question about it.
Speaker 1: But only one person to ten years in a row,
Speaker 1: ten in a row, and also led greens and regulation.
Speaker 3: That's crazy.
Speaker 1: And you know, you look at his golf swing. If
Speaker 1: I put it face to face right and I put
Speaker 1: Ben Hogan right beside him and they start to make
Speaker 1: their move into the backswing, you will see that they
Speaker 1: both they both move right. They both very early straighten
Speaker 1: the right leg and it's not rigid. It's not locked,
Speaker 1: I'm not saying that, but it straightens. It's straight in
Speaker 1: to where when you're looking at it face on, it
Speaker 1: looks like a ruler straight and then they turn their
Speaker 1: hips against that and then they use that pressure to
Speaker 1: push into their left side and they move latterly and
Speaker 1: then they extend and they rotate, and that move is
Speaker 1: not resisting with the lower body. It's not keeping flexing
Speaker 1: the right leg. But you go out on a range
Speaker 1: right now and there'll be somebody out there teaching keep
Speaker 1: the flexing the right leg and resist lower body. Meanwhile,
Speaker 1: the person who had it straighter and anybody ever has
Speaker 1: ever didn't do that, and nor did Ben Hogan.
Speaker 2: So with today's game, in the last two years, we've
Speaker 2: seen and the a correlation between driving distance and the
Speaker 2: top fifteen twenty players in the world, and players like
Speaker 2: Zach Johnson Jim Furrea, Kluke Donald tumble down in the
Speaker 2: world rankings. Are we in an era where distance is
Speaker 2: becoming almost a prerequisite for greatness?
Speaker 1: No, I don't think so. You know, it's always been
Speaker 1: that way. If you go back and you look at
Speaker 1: the players that have won the Varden Trophy more times
Speaker 1: than not, they were, you know, costly long off the tee.
Speaker 1: Having said that, now, cal Pete did win the Varden Trophy,
Speaker 1: but Byron Nelson. You know, Jack would have won it
Speaker 1: almost every year he played. He just didn't play enough events.
Speaker 1: So I count Jack lowest scoring average, Ben Hogan. You
Speaker 1: know Tiger Woods, you know, you go back, and distance
Speaker 1: had something to do with it. There was an era,
Speaker 1: you know that where we had dominant with short hitters.
Speaker 1: You know, Nick Faldo wasn't a long hitter. He had
Speaker 1: some dominant Certainly, Lee Trevino had some success. He wasn't
Speaker 1: a long hitter. But Tom Watson was long, very very long.
Speaker 1: Jack was long, Miller was long, Wisecoff was long, Palmer
Speaker 1: was long. You know, Gary player was certainly not short,
Speaker 1: you know, and he's still long. He's still long, right,
Speaker 1: guy hits it further than I do, you know, he's uh,
Speaker 1: you know, I watch him and I think, God, you
Speaker 1: know that is you know a lot of people have
Speaker 1: probably rolled their eyes at Gary over the years. You know,
Speaker 1: his his incessant chirping about fitness. But wouldn't you all,
Speaker 1: I mean, we would all love to be him when
Speaker 1: we're eighty some odd years old. The guy just lit
Speaker 1: up like a Roman candle. And when he comes on TV. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean, every eighty year old man is entitled to
Speaker 1: just drone on about something ridiculous that is is is
Speaker 1: of interest to them. But but my god, and shouldn't
Speaker 1: we all have that kind of passion at eighty plus
Speaker 1: years of age? And he and his wife they just
Speaker 1: celebrated their sixty first wedding anniversary. They met when they
Speaker 1: were both teenagers. And I mean, the story's amazing. And
Speaker 1: he's a I mean, look, he's eighty seven years old.
Speaker 1: He's a good looking man. I mean, he looks like
Speaker 1: he could be in he could be He's like George
Speaker 1: Clooney of eighty year old men. He's just you know,
Speaker 1: he looks like he could be a movie star. So
Speaker 1: I have my marvel at Gary. Uh, you know, and
Speaker 1: in this era we've had let's see. You know, Matt
Speaker 1: Coocher tremendous success, not a long hitter, Jordan Speed, you know,
Speaker 1: Jeorge Speth is he's.
Speaker 2: Above average though he's in the top half of the
Speaker 2: PGA Tour. What I'm saying is like, yeah, is are
Speaker 2: we going to see a world number one that's not
Speaker 2: in the top half of the PGA Tour and driving?
Speaker 1: It's you know, we're in a I mean, it's gonna
Speaker 1: be tough because there are so many good athletes. Now
Speaker 1: it's it's it's you know, Luke Donald did it. You know,
Speaker 1: he got to be number one, and Luke didn't hit
Speaker 1: it long, and he didn't hit it particularly streight. But Luke, Luke,
Speaker 1: you know, he had a phenomenal year that with a
Speaker 1: year of desirons, No question, his irons were great. But
Speaker 1: Luke is you know, we marveled at Ben Hogan his
Speaker 1: ability to hit a golf ball, But Luke Donald is
Speaker 1: Ben Hogan of the short game. You know, I mean,
Speaker 1: in the same way we marveled Ben, we should be
Speaker 1: marveling at Luke Donald and Steve Stricker. You know, the
Speaker 1: way they chipped the ball, pitch the ball, hit bunker
Speaker 1: shots and putt. You know, Luke Donald was able to
Speaker 1: overcome disadvantages of not being long or straight. For crying
Speaker 1: out loud that I mean, then you can't eve get
Speaker 1: on tour one long or straight and he became a
Speaker 1: number one player. Well, I love watching Luke Donald play
Speaker 1: the game.
Speaker 3: And we so we've talked about Faldo before and I'm curious.
Speaker 3: You know, he's won six majors, six six would he
Speaker 3: be able to win a major in today's Oh?
Speaker 1: Yeah, absolutely. You know the things that made Nick great,
Speaker 1: you know. I mean, look, Nick was playing against longer hitters,
Speaker 1: Greg Norman. You know he schooled Norman. Norman was much
Speaker 1: much longer than him. You know, he played against Nick Price.
Speaker 1: Nick Price was only Ian Woosno, Ian Woos was really long.
Speaker 2: So a question is what about the technology has completely changed?
Speaker 2: The ball doesn't spend as much. Could that have a factor?
Speaker 1: Well, you know, you say it doesn't spend. I mean,
Speaker 1: you know, the average driving distance is two hundred and
Speaker 1: ninety plus yards. You know, guys are not hitting long
Speaker 1: clubs into greens anymore. Doesn't spin as much, but it
Speaker 1: lands at a much steeper angle. You know, distance is
Speaker 1: always going to be a huge advantage. It always has
Speaker 1: been it always. You start to look at the players
Speaker 1: that have dominated, you know, top ten of all time.
Speaker 1: There's not a short hitter in there, you know, I
Speaker 1: mean there's not. I mean Bobby Jones long, Tiger Woods long,
Speaker 1: crazy long, Nicholas crazy long, Byron Nelson, you know, he
Speaker 1: wasn't he wasn't Sam Sneed long, but he was long.
Speaker 1: Walter Hagen. You know, you go down the list and
Speaker 1: you'd get to Gene Saracen. But if you ever watched
Speaker 1: Geene saras and hit a golf well, no, he wasn't
Speaker 1: the longest, but he wasn't short. You know, Palmer long.
Speaker 1: You know, distance has always dominated, and the hardest thing
Speaker 1: to do in golf is hit it long and straight.
Speaker 1: So that's the thing that interests me the most. So
Speaker 1: I'm always on the lookout for any any player, any method,
Speaker 1: any idea that demonstrates an ability to hit the ball
Speaker 1: long and straight. That's what keeps me up at night,
Speaker 1: you know, is who hits it the furthest and who
Speaker 1: hits it the straightest.
Speaker 2: So who's your favorite player or like, who are you
Speaker 2: most bullish on of a player that's outside the top
Speaker 2: fifty in the world rankings right now, if you had
Speaker 2: to pick one, Oh, I don't know.
Speaker 1: Dylan, for Telly is amazing. You know, what he's been
Speaker 1: able to do in the game so quickly certainly gets
Speaker 1: my attention. There's no question about that. You know. He
Speaker 1: pops up and you're like, oh geez, this kid is
Speaker 1: you know, consistently winning. This The kid that's number one
Speaker 1: in the world right now in the amateur rankings, Neeman Newman.
Speaker 2: I think he just ran He's hat sixty three in
Speaker 2: the LA the Latin America right right.
Speaker 1: I mean, you know, he's from Chile. You know, I'm amazed.
Speaker 1: I think one of the most amazing you know, we're
Speaker 1: talking about men's golf, but one of the most amazing
Speaker 1: things in the last fifteen years of golf is the
Speaker 1: number of good players to come from South Korea and
Speaker 1: good good golf swings. I was talking to a coach
Speaker 1: from Korea yesterday and I, you know, I asked him
Speaker 1: that question because I spent a lot of time thinking
Speaker 1: about that question, and there are no teaching academies in Korea.
Speaker 1: There's really no there's no teaching so it's like a
Speaker 1: hold on a second what's going on here. And you know,
Speaker 1: golf is a pastime over there. Kids have clubs in
Speaker 1: their hands by the time they're four, and they're out swinging,
Speaker 1: you know, on the playgrounds, and you know they're they're
Speaker 1: coming to these the game early when your ability to
Speaker 1: imitate is you know, at its peak, and they you know,
Speaker 1: they bring a work ethic to the game. But there's
Speaker 1: not a lot of instruction in South Korea. And yet
Speaker 1: we see great swing after great swing because they're going
Speaker 1: on YouTube, they're watching and they're imitating.
Speaker 3: That's amazing. That speaks to your homegrown you know.
Speaker 1: You know who's the best swing of golf right now?
Speaker 1: Adam Scott. Yeah, okay, you know Adam Scott's teacher is
Speaker 1: Adam Scott. Who's the greatest swing of all time? Sam Sneat.
Speaker 1: You know who Sam Sneed's teacher was, Sam Snead. Ben Hogan.
Speaker 1: You know who Ben Hogan's teacher was, Ben Hogan. So
Speaker 1: you know, now, Tiger and Jack were taught by teachers.
Speaker 1: I'm not saying that teachers don't have their place. They do.
Speaker 1: I I'm not I'm not at all insinuation, and I'm
Speaker 1: just saying that you are quite capable on your own
Speaker 1: of creating a great move, you know, and if you're
Speaker 1: lucky enough to find a good instructor, then well fortunate.
Speaker 1: You're fortunate because there are far more tragedies and instruction
Speaker 1: at the professional rank than there is successes.
Speaker 2: So Tiger recently announced he's, you know, he's splitting with
Speaker 2: Como and he's kind of going with just himself. Where's
Speaker 2: Tiger going to end the year ranked in the world rankings.
Speaker 1: That's a great question. Probably close to the top fifty,
Speaker 1: you know, which is you know, I didn't think that
Speaker 1: Tiger would come back with a golf swing like that.
Speaker 1: I didn't think he'd come back with speed like that. So,
Speaker 1: you know, he and I I, you know, I was
Speaker 1: asked about it obviously a lot, and I said, you know,
Speaker 1: I hope I'm wrong, and I'm happy to be wrong.
Speaker 1: You know, he'll still have to get over and find
Speaker 1: a way around his short game woes, because those are
Speaker 1: not gone by any stretch of the imagination. But golf
Speaker 1: swing wise, I think, you know, he's got a good enough,
Speaker 1: good enough golf swing and enough speed to go out
Speaker 1: there and contend.
Speaker 2: Something we were talking about last night with short game
Speaker 2: is how long rough around the greens we were saying,
Speaker 2: compared to short grass around the greens actually is.
Speaker 1: Good for Oh yeah, absolutely. If you've got some wiggle
Speaker 1: room underneath the ball, then you don't have to be
Speaker 1: so precise and it you know, you can move it up,
Speaker 1: you can move it back. You've got wiggle room under
Speaker 1: the ball. But when you've got a tight lie and
Speaker 1: it's sort of a straightforward pitch shot, you know, the
Speaker 1: need to be precise is there. And when you've hit
Speaker 1: as many bad chips as we've seen Tiger Woods hit
Speaker 1: over the last four or five years, you think about it.
Speaker 1: Their foremost in our mind. I promise you, they're foremost
Speaker 1: in his right and he has to chisel through a
Speaker 1: wall of doubt before every single chip shot he hits.
Speaker 1: Everyone and his competitors are walking up to a chip
Speaker 1: shot with you know, blood in their eyes. You know
Speaker 1: they're they're they're trying to hold it and and that's
Speaker 1: that's the difference. And people, you know, every time Tiger
Speaker 1: hits a good chip, I'll get a tweet from somebody saying,
Speaker 1: see he doesn't have the yips, or actually I'll get
Speaker 1: a hundred, you know, or a thousand and uh, you know,
Speaker 1: you idiot, and and and then and then and then
Speaker 1: two three holes later when he chunks one, my Twitter
Speaker 1: feed will go silent. You know, It's like I'm like, yeah,
Speaker 1: you know, where are you chirpers now? Uh? And I
Speaker 1: you know, look, I hope he figures it out, but
Speaker 1: I've never seen anybody figure the chippy yips out. There
Speaker 1: was a player from Australia by the name of Brett
Speaker 1: Ogle who was a hell of a player, won very
Speaker 1: quickly on the PGA Tour Pebble Beach in the early
Speaker 1: nineties and long and straight and just you know at everything.
Speaker 1: You know, he was abrasive in the right ways. You
Speaker 1: know how he got the chippy nips and he was
Speaker 1: off the tour and gone and in a year. I've
Speaker 1: never seen anybody recover from them. So you know, Tiger
Speaker 1: took two chips to get on the green seven times
Speaker 1: at the Hero seven times, it took him two chips
Speaker 1: to green it. If there had been shot link that week,
Speaker 1: he would have been dead last. In the statistic that
Speaker 1: I look at is it's arg it's how close you chip.
Speaker 1: You know, when you hit a chip shot on average,
Speaker 1: how close does it finish next to the hole. That
Speaker 1: is the truest measure of who's the best chipper. And
Speaker 1: every year, you know, I mean very rarely where you
Speaker 1: see somebody get below six feet, that person will lead
Speaker 1: all around. That's that's Steve Stricker, That's that's who does that.
Speaker 1: But the bottom will be around eight feet on average.
Speaker 1: They're going to chip at a feet. A huge percentage
Speaker 1: difference between how many six footers you make and how
Speaker 1: many eight footers you make. And you know, the last
Speaker 1: the last top ten the Tiger had on the tour
Speaker 1: was Wyndham. Was that twenty fifteen and he finished tenth.
Speaker 1: He averaged thirteen feet seven inches on his chip shots
Speaker 1: that week to the whole thirteen feet last on the
Speaker 1: tour is eight feet, so best is six feet, so
Speaker 1: twice as bad as the best, considerably worse than the worst.
Speaker 1: You know that a big difference between putting an a
Speaker 1: footer and a thirteen footer percentage wise.
Speaker 2: So the Aaron Hills last year got maligned by yeah
Speaker 2: because of scoring, but one of the things I loved
Speaker 2: about it was all the short grass around the greens,
Speaker 2: and like I think the round that really showcased that
Speaker 2: was Patrick Reid's third round where he hit I think
Speaker 2: eleven greens and shot sixty five right, and he continually
Speaker 2: fired at flags and he short sighted himself, but he
Speaker 2: relied on what he's best at. Yeah, do you think
Speaker 2: more tour setups should have more short grass around?
Speaker 1: I don't. I don't. You know, Look, we already have
Speaker 1: that major is called Augusta National, and we kind of
Speaker 1: have it at the Open Championship. What I love about
Speaker 1: the Open or the US Open, what I used to
Speaker 1: love about it was the draconian setups, penal, you know, intimidating.
Speaker 1: And I mean this, I don't mean any disrespect. I
Speaker 1: was a player once. I was the person bitching about
Speaker 1: course setups. But it always occurred to me that they
Speaker 1: shouldn't listen to me, that I'm just blowing steam off
Speaker 1: the last people used to be listening to. Of course
Speaker 1: set up the tour players, you know, they're always going
Speaker 1: to argue for graduated, rough, wider fair ways, however they
Speaker 1: want to do it. Someone's going to do to the player.
Speaker 1: They will be arguing about their strength, what they like,
Speaker 1: what they want to see, what they think will bring
Speaker 1: out the best in them. None of them are going
Speaker 1: to argue from an equitable standpoint. They're going to be
Speaker 1: arguing from whatever it is that they think brings out
Speaker 1: the best in them. Now, I've listened to arguments about
Speaker 1: mowing the grass around the green. It gives them more shots,
Speaker 1: it's more interesting. It's not just the flop shot. And
Speaker 1: that's true, but the name of the game, at least
Speaker 1: as I see it. Look, we already have Augusta National,
Speaker 1: and Augusta is meant to bring out the artist in
Speaker 1: a golfer, make them create shots, bring out the ingenuity
Speaker 1: around the greens. It's bold. You're meant to slay the
Speaker 1: dragon there, right, But at the US Open, the dragon
Speaker 1: is supposed to slay you. You know, you're supposed to
Speaker 1: be intimidated by the setup. If you miss the fairway,
Speaker 1: I don't care. If you miss it by a foot,
Speaker 1: you pay a penalty for it. If you miss the green,
Speaker 1: I don't care. You know about fairness. I'm talking about
Speaker 1: if if you miss the green, your target is hitting
Speaker 1: the green. If you miss the green, I'm all for
Speaker 1: nasty rough around the green, all for it. I want
Speaker 1: to see a guy to chip. I want to see
Speaker 1: it because that's what I want to see. At that
Speaker 1: major championship, flare at augusta intimidation at the US Open,
Speaker 1: mother nature at the Open, and then the elements. Unfortunately,
Speaker 1: with the PGA Championship being played in the heat of
Speaker 1: the summer, they're a slave to whatever mother nature will
Speaker 1: allow them to do with a golf course.
Speaker 2: This year is gonna be tough.
Speaker 1: Uh yeah, I mean that's gonna be one hundred and
Speaker 1: one hundred percent humidity. It's just gonna be nasty, and
Speaker 1: so there. You know, I don't necessarily think you should
Speaker 1: be punishing people to the extent that you do at
Speaker 1: the US Open, because you know, the physical nature of
Speaker 1: it is punishing enough. Uh So they have to keep
Speaker 1: the golf course softer and understandably so. But I you
Speaker 1: know who won wing Foot nineteen seventy four, Heller when
Speaker 1: he shot seven over par. Heller, when proved to be
Speaker 1: an extraordinary player. He won the three more you know,
Speaker 1: he won two more Opens, he won three US Open.
Speaker 1: You know, I love to see. You know, we're all
Speaker 1: about strokes gained, right, Strokes gain is a measure of
Speaker 1: how you do against everybody else. Sure, okay, I get
Speaker 1: that metric, I use it, but I always go back
Speaker 1: to did you hit the fairway or did you not?
Speaker 1: Did you hit the green or did you not? Because
Speaker 1: nobody stands on the tee with very few exceptions and goes, eh,
Speaker 1: I'm better off I missed this fairway. Yeah, I mean,
Speaker 1: I'm okay if I missed this fairway. You're aiming for
Speaker 1: the fairway. Did you hit it or did you not?
Speaker 1: Nobody stands in the fairway and goes, I'm okay if
Speaker 1: I missed this green or you're not. You're trying to
Speaker 1: hit the green? Did you hit it or did you not?
Speaker 1: That that you know? People? Will you know this? Whole
Speaker 1: strokes gain obsessive. I'm a big fan of Mark Brody
Speaker 1: and I use it and I look at it and
Speaker 1: it's interesting, but I still look at can you hit
Speaker 1: the fairway? Can you hit the green? And the US
Speaker 1: Open was that? And if it went back to it,
Speaker 1: I would be standing on top of my car applauding
Speaker 1: them because I want to see a tour player agitated, angry,
Speaker 1: pissed off about setup, and then I want to see
Speaker 1: who it is that hits the shots. Did you hit
Speaker 1: them or did you not? Could you hit them? That's
Speaker 1: cool to me, you know, that is the game really
Speaker 1: should be about control. It should be, and if it
Speaker 1: were about control, tour players that week would be forced
Speaker 1: to use a ball that spins more. They'd consider going
Speaker 1: to a driver with less MOI. They would think about
Speaker 1: all these things they'd be forced to because they're like, well,
Speaker 1: wait a minute, I don't want to hit a ball
Speaker 1: that's flying straight up in the air with no spin
Speaker 1: on it. You don't have as much control over it.
Speaker 1: If I miss this fairly, I'm screwed, even if I
Speaker 1: miss it by a foot. So heit I want to
Speaker 1: spin this ball more. I want to cut it more,
Speaker 1: I want to draw it more. So it would make
Speaker 1: them reconsider their bad configuration and their shot selection.
Speaker 3: I would love to see that. I really I want
Speaker 3: to see carnage at the US Open.
Speaker 1: Yes, I do.
Speaker 2: I think it's something you speak of. I'm a big
Speaker 2: proponent of WITH. Yeah, I'm an architecture guy. Oh yeah,
Speaker 2: I'm a nut, But I'm a big proponent of WITH.
Speaker 2: But also like one of the things I love about
Speaker 2: golf courses inside the golf courses, variety. But speaking what
Speaker 2: you talked about was variety among setups. So I had
Speaker 2: Bill Kooran a couple of months ago and he we
Speaker 2: started talking about Trenny Forrest and he said that he
Speaker 2: wanted it. The way he wants to test tour players,
Speaker 2: and he thinks you should test tour players is by
Speaker 2: making courses shorter and wider and forcing them to pick
Speaker 2: a line and hit it at a certain distance. What
Speaker 2: do you think about shorter and wider?
Speaker 1: I love it, you know, I you know this is
Speaker 1: I do love variety, and I love Bill Korkrinshaw golf courses,
Speaker 1: and when I play them, that thought is you can
Speaker 1: feel it. You know, when you play the golf course,
Speaker 1: you know you'll drive it down, be right next to
Speaker 1: a green. But if you don't have the right angle,
Speaker 1: you've got some awkward, inconvenient ridge to get over, and
Speaker 1: you know you could spit on the green and you
Speaker 1: can't chip it on the green because you're in a
Speaker 1: bad spot. So golf is meant to be fun. With
Speaker 1: the exception of the US Open one week of year,
Speaker 1: it's not meant to be fun. Augusta's fun. The Open
Speaker 1: is fun. Okay, the PGA, because you're battling the elements
Speaker 1: may not be so fun. But but golf is meant
Speaker 1: to be fun and Krins, Shaw and Corp get that.
Speaker 1: You know that the the the penal setups. Uh that
Speaker 1: I love at the US Open. I hate everywhere else.
Speaker 1: You know, I don't want to play golf courses that
Speaker 1: are that are you know, you either hit it here
Speaker 1: or you don't, you know, I mean, I like the
Speaker 1: recovery shot, you know. I like the ability to recover,
Speaker 1: and I like the ability to bombs away and get
Speaker 1: down there and realize, well, I did hit the fairway,
Speaker 1: but I'd be way better off I hit it over there.
Speaker 1: That's strategic, it's interesting, it's you know, my favorite course
Speaker 1: in the world is a course in San Antonio by
Speaker 1: the name of Oak Hills Country Club. It was designed
Speaker 1: by Tilling Hast. Its integrity has never really been touched.
Speaker 1: It's been spruced up time or two by Weisskoff and J.
Speaker 1: Morrish and whatnot, but it's the same way. It's only
Speaker 1: seven thousand yards long. But every day I finished it,
Speaker 1: I think, you know, it was such an interesting round.
Speaker 1: You know, I had a bad lie here because I
Speaker 1: drove in the wrong side of the fairway. I had
Speaker 1: a three iron from a hanging lie there and nine
Speaker 1: iron from an uphill side hill, lie little bitty greens
Speaker 1: and it peaks your curiosity. Crenshaw Corps do that. The
Speaker 1: Trinity Fours golf Course in Dallas, by all accounts, is amazing.
Speaker 1: I think the field will be much much better there.
Speaker 1: I think players will be intrigued by that. That course.
Speaker 2: I spent like three days just walking around studying the course.
Speaker 2: There's a couple of spots where I mean there. It's
Speaker 2: going to be very interesting to see the comments that
Speaker 2: come from it. Yeah, it's going to rub some people
Speaker 2: the wrong way.
Speaker 1: Yeah, absolutely. And you know Gil hans redid draw and
Speaker 1: the first hole he made it. You know, it's a
Speaker 1: par five, but if you if you're second shot drifts
Speaker 1: right of center, it'll catch the slope and it'll go
Speaker 1: in the water. And I think JB. Holmes was leading
Speaker 1: there after two rounds and he drove it and he
Speaker 1: had a six iron to the green if memory serves
Speaker 1: me correctly, and his six iron landed from the left
Speaker 1: side of the fairway I believe, hit the sort of
Speaker 1: the right side of the green and it went the water.
Speaker 1: And he was angry and he thinking, I think he
Speaker 1: had some critical things to say. I think it was JB.
Speaker 1: Holmes and Gil Hans was up on the set that night,
Speaker 1: and you know I could tell that it. I could
Speaker 1: tell it bothered him a little bit. You know, he's
Speaker 1: getting and I and I was thinking, well, I mean
Speaker 1: I've been there. I've been the tour player and you think,
Speaker 1: no matter what, when you hit the shot and it
Speaker 1: doesn't turn out the way you want, you were like,
Speaker 1: what idiot designed this golf course? And if you philosophically
Speaker 1: look at it, though it's a it's a par five,
Speaker 1: there has to be some risk reward. You know, if
Speaker 1: you get it going right at thirteen at augusta a
Speaker 1: little bit with your second shot, it goes in the water,
Speaker 1: It come up shore, roll in the water. You know,
Speaker 1: if you don't quite catch it perfect at fifteen, it'll
Speaker 1: hit in the front third and come back in the water.
Speaker 1: Those are all design elements that are intended to intimidate.
Speaker 1: They're intended to make you create and reward great creativity
Speaker 1: and boldness. And you shouldn't get a pass with a
Speaker 1: shot that's just not quite right. With a six iron
Speaker 1: to a par five, you should pay dearly for it. Mentally,
Speaker 1: you know, there should be some stress. I love that
Speaker 1: kind of architecture. And that's one of the things I
Speaker 1: love about Crenshaw Core is that they design with that
Speaker 1: in mind. Fun but also they want you to have fun,
Speaker 1: but they also want you to pay a small price
Speaker 1: for a strategic mistake.
Speaker 2: Yeah. I love death biangle.
Speaker 1: Ah that's great, Great, I'm stealing that death bi angle.
Speaker 1: I'll give you full credit at some point trade market
Speaker 1: death by angle. Yeah yeah.
Speaker 2: And you think you're okay, and then you get up
Speaker 2: there and you say, ah sh.
Speaker 1: Yeah right, death biangle, And then and then and then
Speaker 1: holy grail, you know, is the opposite of that, you know,
Speaker 1: reward by angle, you know, And and that's we spend
Speaker 1: more time talking about angles at Augusta National than any
Speaker 1: other golf course. You know, angles are important. You know,
Speaker 1: you know, you drive it down the left side, and
Speaker 1: you know, you you know, if you find the fairway
Speaker 1: balls above your feet, but you know you you want
Speaker 1: to hit towards the right center of that green. You know,
Speaker 1: you drive it down the left side at thirteen, you know,
Speaker 1: take that risk and then you've got a flatter lie.
Speaker 1: But you want now you want to hit a cut
Speaker 1: into that green. And we talk so much about shot
Speaker 1: shape and angles and where you want to drive it
Speaker 1: and you know, and we don't do that very often.
Speaker 1: That's because the architect those things were important to him. Yeah,
Speaker 1: what's your favorite course?
Speaker 2: Uh, sand Hills, Nebraska.
Speaker 1: Yeah, everybody, I hear that a lot. I've never played it,
Speaker 1: but I hear that a lot. To get out yeah
Speaker 1: I did.
Speaker 2: That's if you leave Sandhills without a grasp at least
Speaker 2: a grasp of strategic what strategic golf? No kidding you are,
Speaker 2: you're pretty a napped if you all right without it?
Speaker 1: All right, but.
Speaker 2: It's I mean, everything's about angles and and you get
Speaker 2: the elements out there in the sand in Nebraska. I mean,
Speaker 2: it'll be blown thirty miles an hour from one direction
Speaker 2: for your front nine, and it'll switch on the back nine.
Speaker 2: These holes play remarkably different day in day out. I mean,
Speaker 2: I mean it is a special place.
Speaker 1: I got to get out there. You know, my wife
Speaker 1: is a heck of a golfer. She loves to play
Speaker 1: and and she's always after me to take a golf
Speaker 1: trip here or there. And I haven't thought about sand Hills,
Speaker 1: but it's got to get out there.
Speaker 2: It's a cool place. It's in the middle of nowhere.
Speaker 1: Though, right, Yeah, well, I think we found out that
Speaker 1: you know that that adage about you know, if you
Speaker 1: build it, they'll come bandon? Do is prove that correct
Speaker 1: pretty much? Area Cabot Links prove that to be correct.
Speaker 1: I mean we went to Cabot Links, my wife and
Speaker 1: I last summer on a break, and you know, it
Speaker 1: was it's like reading a great book. You know, you
Speaker 1: want to read it, but you really want to take
Speaker 1: your time, you know, because you're enjoying it so much.
Speaker 1: So I didn't want to finish. I didn't want to
Speaker 1: stop every day, you know, every hole. I was like,
Speaker 1: I just want to walk slow, you know, I don't
Speaker 1: want to hurry and finish this round. It's too perfect.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean in Abandon Dune's Cabot those things wouldn't
Speaker 2: have happened without sand Hills because that was that first, right,
Speaker 2: the first real minimalist core crunchhaw where it was all
Speaker 2: about the golf. So sand Hills was ninety five. It
Speaker 2: was a little bit after Kapalua and sand Hills. I mean,
Speaker 2: Mike Kaiser's remember it at sand Hills, Like, yeah, I'm
Speaker 2: certain that if sand Hills hadn't have worked, you wouldn't
Speaker 2: have bandon dunes, you wouldn't have how about that cabot
Speaker 2: clips and links?
Speaker 1: So I haven't heard anybody connect the dots like that.
Speaker 2: I like that you to golf swings as meat up.
Speaker 1: Well, now I have a nice source for architecture. I
Speaker 1: appreciate that, Andy.
Speaker 2: So Overrated Underrated is our regular segment of the podcast.
Speaker 2: So we're going to just throw some stuff at you
Speaker 2: and say are these things overrated? Underrated?
Speaker 1: Okay, We're going.
Speaker 2: To start with the city of Orlando.
Speaker 1: Overrated or underrated? Underrated if you're under eighteen overrated. Otherwise,
Speaker 1: the traffic here has leaves a little to be desired.
Speaker 1: The Interstate four will give the four h five in
Speaker 1: LA to a side for chaotic conditions at all hours
Speaker 1: of the day. Yesterday was today today's Tuesday, Sunday. My
Speaker 1: wife and I wanted to go play golf. It's twenty
Speaker 1: minutes to my club, and we hit rush hour traffic
Speaker 1: at eleven o'clock on Sunday and it took me an
Speaker 1: hour to get over there for no reason, no discernible reason.
Speaker 3: So yes, that question was spawned from an explet of
Speaker 3: laden conversation we had actually driving over here today.
Speaker 1: You feel my pain. So don't just think that you're
Speaker 1: here and it's gone. And every day I'm here, those
Speaker 1: expletives are in my head as I drive around this town.
Speaker 1: It's like, where are the city planners? You know? I
Speaker 1: want to you know, yes, I want to have a
Speaker 1: talk with them.
Speaker 2: If your if your job and you know, regular work
Speaker 2: wasn't here, what city would you live in?
Speaker 1: New York City? Probably? You know it's the energy of
Speaker 1: that place. Uh, you know, the talent that people have
Speaker 1: everywhere there. You know, you go to a show, you
Speaker 1: go to a restaurant, you know, you go to a museum.
Speaker 1: You see, my goodness, you know, the the confluence of
Speaker 1: energy of that city is magnetic.
Speaker 3: How about overrated underrated stacking tilt.
Speaker 1: You guys? You guys, I uh over it underrated stack.
Speaker 2: Until because stack until tendencies in this way? Yeah?
Speaker 1: Where these brought about? Because you do you decided that,
Speaker 1: you know, to go down that way purposely or it
Speaker 1: just happened. It just happened.
Speaker 3: And it's funny because like five or six years ago,
Speaker 3: when stack untilt was in right, people were like, oh man,
Speaker 3: love your golf swing. You naturally stack in tilt that's awesome.
Speaker 3: And now it's like, oh god, dude, you're stacking in
Speaker 3: tilting right, fix that.
Speaker 1: Right, you're stacking in tilting. Well, look, I I don't
Speaker 1: believe they had any mal intent these guys at all.
Speaker 1: You know, they they they they had good intentions. I
Speaker 1: don't think they purposely wanted to harm anybody. But I
Speaker 1: don't find any value in it, you know, I I
Speaker 1: see validity for it when somebody can't move, you know,
Speaker 1: if if somebody doesn't have the ability to transfer their weight,
Speaker 1: you know, to the right or to the left, staying
Speaker 1: in the same place gives you some consistency. So as
Speaker 1: a philosophy to help poor players with very limited mobility,
Speaker 1: I see utility in the idea. But for better players,
Speaker 1: you know, it'd be like giving training wheels to Lance Armstrong.
Speaker 1: You know, you're you know, these guys can move. And
Speaker 1: every great player moved off of the ball, every single
Speaker 1: one of them, every single one of them male or female.
Speaker 1: They did not have a stationary head. They moved to
Speaker 1: the right, they moved up, and they transfer their way
Speaker 1: to the right. Every athletic endeavor involves a weight transfer,
Speaker 1: loading and unloading. So you know, those guys. You know,
Speaker 1: I've Plumber and Bennett. I think they're smart guys, you
Speaker 1: know I do. I think they're well intentioned, and clearly
Speaker 1: a lot of people thought there was validity to their ideas.
Speaker 1: I just didn't have an agree with them. I'll just
Speaker 1: say this though again, if they were sitting right here,
Speaker 1: I'm sure we'd have a pleasant conversation. I don't agree
Speaker 1: with the teaching philosophies all the way through of Hank Haney.
Speaker 1: I'm going to play in the member guest with Hank
Speaker 1: Haney at his club. I don't agree with the teaching
Speaker 1: philosophies of Butch Harmon. You know, I don't think you
Speaker 1: should squat into your right leg or restrict or short
Speaker 1: in your back swing. I'd like to think Butch and
Speaker 1: our friends and we talk about golf swing a lot,
Speaker 1: you know, wherever you're at. If I'm doing a panel
Speaker 1: open form tonight with a bunch of teachers, every one
Speaker 1: of those teachers, to the person to the right of
Speaker 1: them and the person who the left with them, they
Speaker 1: do not agree with what they teach, but they're all
Speaker 1: trying to do the right thing. So I'll say this
Speaker 1: about Plumber and Bennett I'm well intentioned. They're smart guys.
Speaker 1: I just don't happen to agree with their philosophies.
Speaker 2: So I really appreciate the time. No, you got to
Speaker 2: get out of here. You gotta get to that panel.
Speaker 1: Thank you. I'm actually going to meet I had arranged
Speaker 1: the lunch meeting with when I was very early in golf,
Speaker 1: professional golf. Uh, you know, trying to qualify for the tour.
Speaker 1: You know, you got all this quallity, a little section
Speaker 1: only reading or whatever. You know, that's life or death
Speaker 1: every shot. And I used to travel with a fellow
Speaker 1: one of the guys that he's traveled with, a fellow,
Speaker 1: n Evan Schiller. Evan now has become a foremost photographer.
Speaker 1: And Evan is in town this week, and he'd asked
Speaker 1: me to lunch. Uh, and we're you know, we're just
Speaker 1: going right across the street here. I haven't seen Evan
Speaker 1: the last time I saw him. You know, we were
Speaker 1: living and dying with every golf shot. And so one
Speaker 1: of the things about social media is you just keep
Speaker 1: track of people's lives. And I see his photography, I'm like,
Speaker 1: good gosh, you've turned into this phenomenal photographer. So I'm
Speaker 1: going to meet Evan for lunch and catch up before
Speaker 1: I dive into the panel tonight. You guys are gonna
Speaker 1: be there.
Speaker 2: We are not We're gonna We're gonna go see it
Speaker 2: up for nine week winter Park. I'm a Chicago Well
Speaker 2: there you go, right.
Speaker 1: Winter Park is my producer at our golf Channel's name
Speaker 1: is Matt Haggerty. Yeah, I know Matt. You know Matt.
Speaker 1: Matt lives in winter Park and he had a lot
Speaker 1: to do with getting the architects. He picked them, found them,
Speaker 1: coerced them into doing that project on a shoe string budget.
Speaker 1: And my wife and I for you know, giggles. You know,
Speaker 1: it cost twelve dollars to go over there and play golf.
Speaker 1: And it's a fabulous golf course and it's right in
Speaker 1: the middle of the city. It's like Scotland. You go
Speaker 1: over there, play play nine holes, go have a drink. Yeah.
Speaker 3: Andy told me to play there like a month or
Speaker 3: a couple of months ago, and I got there and
Speaker 3: I was like, what the hell is this place? And
Speaker 3: then I got done playing, I'm like, God, I gotta
Speaker 3: go play again.
Speaker 1: Oh no, It's terrific. You guys have fun. You guys.
Speaker 1: I'm jealous. I wish I was over there with you guys.
Speaker 1: We'll have to get together and play sometime. Really nice
Speaker 1: to meet you guys. You know put it. You know. Look,
Speaker 1: you get on Twitter and there's a whole lot of
Speaker 1: snark on Twitter, and you guys, you guys don't do that.
Speaker 1: You know, you're all about the betterment of this game,
Speaker 1: and you put out great content. So it's really nice
Speaker 1: to put faces with Twitter handles. So for sure, Well,
Speaker 1: thank you so much again. Yeah, I look forward to
Speaker 1: it anytime. I appreciate that. I appreciate it. Yeah, cheers. Yep,
Speaker 1: you've been listening to the fried Egg podcast. We do
Speaker 1: the digging for you.