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Speaker 1: I miss a green, for example, I'm already upset. When

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Speaker 1: I find my ball in the bunker, I'm really upset.

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Speaker 1: And when I find my ball in a frid Egg

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Speaker 1: Friday Egg, the dreaded Friday Egg, Friday, Frida Frida Egg

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Speaker 1: Bride Egg Lie, I'm about ready to run off the

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Speaker 1: golf course.

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Speaker 2: Ladies and gentlemen, Welcome back to another edition of the

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Speaker 2: Frida Egg Podcast. Today, I'm joined by Kyle Nathan and

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Speaker 2: we'd like to welcome on Golf Channel personality former PGA

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Speaker 2: Tour winner and author of The Anatomy of Greatness, Brandal

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Speaker 2: Chamblie Brandle. How's it going today, I'm fabulous. Nice to

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Speaker 2: join you guys, Kyle Andy. I follow you guys on Twitter.

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Speaker 2: I enjoy your work, So it's nice sit down and

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Speaker 2: talk a little golf with you guys.

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Speaker 3: Absolutely, thanks for stopping by.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, real pleasure. I'm sure you're happy to get out

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Speaker 1: of Chicago and come up here to the PGA Merchandise

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Speaker 1: Show this week. It's like the whole world of golf

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Speaker 1: is descended upon this spot. So it's a it's a

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Speaker 1: it's an entertaining and vibrant week.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it's there's an eclectic group of people out on

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Speaker 2: that floor.

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Speaker 1: Yes, there is everybody from last year when I went.

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Speaker 1: You know, you run into every sort of entrepreneur you

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Speaker 1: you could you could imagine, you know, and they'd all

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Speaker 1: have some gadget that they'd spent ten years on, and

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Speaker 1: you know, you try it and you're like, yeah, there's

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Speaker 1: absolutely validity to this. You know, you know a way

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Speaker 1: to go and you know, next thing, you know, ten

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Speaker 1: of a merchant house, and the next thing ten just like,

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Speaker 1: oh my gosh, I wouldn't have time to try all

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Speaker 1: these things out. But it's there's so much energy there

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Speaker 1: and you realize that, you know, the world of golf,

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Speaker 1: you know, there's so much invested in it, time, resources, money, passion,

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Speaker 1: and everybody with any sort of pass is here this week.

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Speaker 1: It's there's two places where the world of golf really congregates,

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Speaker 1: maybe three here this week, PGA Merchandise Show, Augusta and

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Speaker 1: the Open Championship. Seems like everybody in the world goes

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Speaker 1: to those three events.

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Speaker 2: I think something that is often overlooked with golf, and

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Speaker 2: it is shown here through all like these gadgets, is

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Speaker 2: that golf's unlike any other sport where you have an

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Speaker 2: inverse relationship between like PGA Tour fans. So you figure

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Speaker 2: there's probably like three million, four million people that regularly

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Speaker 2: watch the PGA Tour, but twenty five million golfers. But

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Speaker 2: if you look at the NBA, you have hundreds of

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Speaker 2: millions of fans and there's probably only about a million

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Speaker 2: people that actually play basketball regularly.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, that's a good point. You know, same thing is

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Speaker 1: probably true with football. I mean, who plays football once

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Speaker 1: you get out of high school? And yet you know

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Speaker 1: it's you know, as they said in the movie, that

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Speaker 1: they've got a day of the week. You know, golf

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Speaker 1: is different. You know, to play it is is wonderful

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Speaker 1: because you get to get outdoors and you get to

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Speaker 1: know people, even your own family, in a way you

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Speaker 1: don't befoor. But to watch it on TV, well it's

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Speaker 1: it's not loud, nobody's running into each other, it's not violent.

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Speaker 1: You know, when I've fallen asleep more times than you know,

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Speaker 1: watching golf telecast is what I do not anymore because

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Speaker 1: I have to pay attention to it and to talk

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Speaker 1: specifically about it. But you go home, you put the

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Speaker 1: golf on, you'd fall asleep somewhere in the front nine.

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Speaker 1: You'd wake up when they're on fourteen or fifteen, you

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Speaker 1: go get a play to nachos, and you come back

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Speaker 1: and watch the end of it. It was like, what was

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Speaker 1: better than that? You know, you can't fall asleep to

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Speaker 1: a football game.

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Speaker 2: That's something I always say. It's one of my favorite

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Speaker 2: things is how you can just fall asleep on the

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Speaker 2: couch and wake back up and you're.

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Speaker 1: Like, are they're still make three birdies? Exactly? But now

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Speaker 1: now I can go back and see how they made it.

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Speaker 1: Before I go, I have no idea. I've been asleep

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Speaker 1: for an hour and a half. How the hell that

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Speaker 1: guy make three birdies in a row? Now you know,

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Speaker 1: I have shot link on my computer, So I go back.

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Speaker 1: I'm like, oh god, he did, so where is that shot?

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Speaker 1: I got to see it? Then of course you can

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Speaker 1: go to Twitter and find it because somebody will post it.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. So to kick things off, we had a big

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Speaker 2: week on professional golf with three big name Euros winning

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Speaker 2: and would love to if the Ryder Cup was played today,

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Speaker 2: who would you pick to win?

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Speaker 1: Well, it was played today in Paris, I'd probably pick Europe. Ye.

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Speaker 1: I was driving around the other day and you know,

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Speaker 1: something came on the radio about the US was going

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Speaker 1: to dominate, and look, I mean, they've got an unprecedented

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Speaker 1: number of young players. But you start to think about Europe,

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Speaker 1: John Rahm and Tommy Fleetwood and Roy mackerel and Sergio Garcia,

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Speaker 1: John Peters, mean Rose, justin Rose. It looks like Paul

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Speaker 1: Casey's going to play on that, you know, I mean,

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Speaker 1: nobody would be surprised if Paul Casey made the team.

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Speaker 1: And I mean those are just off the top of

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Speaker 1: our head, you know. If you start to go down

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Speaker 1: a little further, like, oh gosh, she's the hell of

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Speaker 1: a player, and you think they're going to be in Paris,

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Speaker 1: they haven't won there since. They have won on four

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Speaker 1: and solo of the US since nineteen ninety three. So

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Speaker 1: I'd pick Europe, you know, I would, you know, I

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Speaker 1: you know, I don't think it's a borgone conclusion that

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Speaker 1: the competition is over. I don't even know where those

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Speaker 1: thoughts come from. I think they're preposterous.

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Speaker 3: I tend to agree with you. I would think I

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Speaker 3: give him the choice. Personally, I would take Europe today,

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Speaker 3: and you know, one of their leaders is obviously going

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Speaker 3: to be John Rahm, who Andy has been a personal

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Speaker 3: fan favorite of for about a year now. How long

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Speaker 3: until we start talking about John Rahm as the best

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Speaker 3: player in the world.

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Speaker 1: Well, it's it's coming. You know, I can't imagine that

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Speaker 1: he's going to topple Dustin Johnson off at the top

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Speaker 1: spot for a while. But John Rom's in his early twenties.

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Speaker 1: Dustin Johnson is sneaking up to his mid thirties, so

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Speaker 1: you know, he has a sort of a shelf life there.

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Speaker 1: His skills will start to deteriorate soon. You know, within

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Speaker 1: a year or two, he'll he'll lose a little something

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Speaker 1: off his fastball, and you know, it's just happens. And

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Speaker 1: John ram is, you know, he's got another decade in

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Speaker 1: his prime and he's got everything. You know, he really does.

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Speaker 1: He's got everything. He's got the sort of savoy fair

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Speaker 1: he's got the the arrogance which is so important, and

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Speaker 1: the moment doesn't freeze him. You know, he didn't need

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Speaker 1: an apprenticeship in the game of golf, which is so rare.

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Speaker 1: It seems like we're getting more and more of that though.

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Speaker 1: You know, Jordan Speth didn't need an apprenticeship. Roy McRoy

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Speaker 1: didn't need an apprenticeship. Those are you know, that's three

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Speaker 1: in the last seven years that have just come out

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Speaker 1: of nowhere and immediately looked like they were world class players.

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Speaker 1: You know, that's that's rare. Those players don't come along

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Speaker 1: very often. That's why we were blown away at Tiger

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Speaker 1: and Phil. So John Romill be the number one player

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Speaker 1: in the world at some point would surprise nobody.

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Speaker 3: Andy and I talked about yesterday about the level of

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Speaker 3: consistency he's played with, which I mean he's in the

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Speaker 3: top ten fifteen literally every single week, and who the

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Speaker 3: last player to be as consistent as he has been,

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Speaker 3: And the only name we really could come up with

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Speaker 3: was Tiger.

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Speaker 1: Well that's about right. Yeah, I mean if you look

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Speaker 1: at if you look at his ascendency to where he's

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Speaker 1: at in the world rankings. It's of course when you

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Speaker 1: start out, you don't have points falling off because you

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Speaker 1: haven't played any so you're just gaining them in the

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Speaker 1: world rankings. But yeah, you're right, I mean, not like Tiger,

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Speaker 1: nobody like Tiger, but more like Tiger than Justin Thomas,

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Speaker 1: you know, I mean, even just Thomas was a heck

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Speaker 1: of a player, but nobody. You just don't see someone

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Speaker 1: come along like a John Rahm. Yeah, you know. I

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Speaker 1: always look at what intrigues me is where these players

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Speaker 1: come from and how they play. It's not so much

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Speaker 1: what they do, it's how they do it. And so

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Speaker 1: when I look at Saya John Rahm and you think,

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Speaker 1: how did he get here? How did he arrive on

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Speaker 1: the on the scene with such it's not unprecedented. It's

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Speaker 1: precocious really, because you're just not supposed to do those things.

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Speaker 1: We saw it come up with Tiger, but generally you're

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Speaker 1: just not supposed to do those things. There's been thirty

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Speaker 1: one players that have ascended to the number one spot

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Speaker 1: in the world. I am in the rankings, every one

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Speaker 1: of them. You'd look at them and you go wow.

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Speaker 1: You know. I go back and I've read about every

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Speaker 1: one of those players, every single one of them. The

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Speaker 1: very first one was Richie Ramsey back in two thousand

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Speaker 1: and seven. And you go back and you read and there,

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Speaker 1: can't miss, can't miss, He's number one of the world.

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Speaker 1: Can't miss, no way he's going to miss. But of

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Speaker 1: those thirty one, there are only nine that have managed

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Speaker 1: to win PGA Tour events. Roy McRoy, Jordan Speth, Ricky Fowler,

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Speaker 1: Danny Willett, Michael Thompson, Danny Lee, Hadeki Matsiyama, Patrick Cantley,

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Speaker 1: and John Rumm. Now, of those nine, most of them,

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Speaker 1: with the exception of Danny Willett, well, all of them,

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Speaker 1: with the exception of Danny Willett, were either taught themselves

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Speaker 1: to play, or they learned to play with just some

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Speaker 1: local teacher around their area, and they never deviated from that.

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Speaker 1: So and I'm not saying, and here's the fine point

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Speaker 1: of it, I'm not saying that the information that everybody

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Speaker 1: else is getting is bad at all. It's good information.

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Speaker 1: I go back and I look at it, and I

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Speaker 1: read it. It's good information. But we're in an age

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Speaker 1: where there is so much information that it blows the

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Speaker 1: circuits of players. I was involved in the very very

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Speaker 1: same thing. I see it. I see a player, he

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Speaker 1: comes out, he's the best player in the world, and

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Speaker 1: he's got all this information, he got all this access.

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Speaker 1: He changes coaches, he changes coaches, he changes coaches, he

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Speaker 1: changes coaches, and the next thing you know, they're nowhere

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Speaker 1: near the player that they were. So here's John Rohm.

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Speaker 1: No one would teach that golf swing. No one just

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Speaker 1: came out of nowhere, and he doesn't play with the

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Speaker 1: sort of timidity that somebody does who's constantly looking at

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Speaker 1: a screen and feeling like he needs to change something.

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Speaker 1: So there is you know that I pay attention to that.

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Speaker 1: That matters to me because how do you get the

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Speaker 1: best out of an athlete? How do they play their best?

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Speaker 1: Is it with information or is it with freedom? More

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Speaker 1: times than not, it's with freedom.

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Speaker 3: That's really interesting. It sounds like feel and I think

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Speaker 3: maybe the ability to adapt because you know your own

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Speaker 3: swing so well sounds so important.

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Speaker 1: Well that's true, but you know, if you're think about it,

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Speaker 1: it doesn't matter. You pick the player. We go look

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Speaker 1: at a video screen. With the exception of Adam Scott,

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Speaker 1: you can find a fault in their golf swing very quickly.

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Speaker 1: It doesn't matter wherever they're at. You'll find a fault

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Speaker 1: with their grip, their takeaway, some point in their backswing,

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Speaker 1: their transition. I can pick it apart, so can every

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Speaker 1: other teacher. Okay, we can pick it apart. We can

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Speaker 1: find fault with it. Now, if you're looking for perfection, swing, perfection, everything,

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Speaker 1: perf we're gonna get perfect. There's this, there's this, there's this,

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Speaker 1: and you sit there and you're like, well, you're not

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Speaker 1: quite there yet. You're not quite there yet. And every

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Speaker 1: time you look at that video, you're reminded of something

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Speaker 1: that's inadequate about your move. In time, that timidity grows,

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Speaker 1: you lose your confidence and you're seeking, you know, perfection.

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Speaker 1: If when you see perfection, you're literally seeking something that

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Speaker 1: does not exist. You're chasing something that doesn't exist. John

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Speaker 1: Ram is not chasing perfection. He's chasing wins. He's going

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Speaker 1: somewhere with his game. A lot of people are trying

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Speaker 1: to go somewhere with their golf swing. And that's the

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Speaker 1: fine point of it.

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Speaker 3: So in your own golf game, I know you're, you know,

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Speaker 3: about as knowledgeable about the swing as anybody. Did you

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Speaker 3: find yourself trying to perfect the swing too much?

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Speaker 1: I did? You know? I was a great player in college,

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Speaker 1: one of the two or three best players in the country.

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Speaker 1: You know, I was extraordinary. I could hit it far,

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Speaker 1: I could hit it long, high, straight, curve it any direction.

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Speaker 1: I was amazing. But when I, for whatever reason, when

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Speaker 1: I got out onto where, all of a sudden, you're

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Speaker 1: surrounded by people that have great knowledge of the golf swing,

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Speaker 1: and and they're just there, They're around you constantly, and

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Speaker 1: inevitably you start talking to them, and then what they

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Speaker 1: say makes sense. You know, that makes sense, So you

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Speaker 1: try it, and then you try it and it doesn't work,

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Speaker 1: or it does work, and then you try it and

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Speaker 1: the next thing, you know, the golf swing I played

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Speaker 1: on the tour with for a better part of fifteen

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Speaker 1: years looked nothing like the swing I had in college.

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Speaker 1: You know, I didn't even I go back now. I

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Speaker 1: look at my swing in college, and I look at

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Speaker 1: the swing I was playing on the tour with them,

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Speaker 1: like they're not even the same person. I'm I now

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Speaker 1: swing like I did in college, and I swing that

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Speaker 1: way only because I know now that that is the

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Speaker 1: way to swing a golf club. That all the things

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Speaker 1: that I was being taught were wrong. I mean, if

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Speaker 1: they were doctors, they should be sued from malpractice. They

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Speaker 1: were just wrong, out of their minds wrong. So I

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Speaker 1: I you know, I lived it. You know, I went

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Speaker 1: to many of the top one hundred teachers, there's many

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Speaker 1: of them, studied their ideas and then took them out

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Speaker 1: and tried to make them work. And I'm I was

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Speaker 1: an athlete. I could do anything. I could make anything work.

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Speaker 1: And that's what I see. If you get out on tour,

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Speaker 1: if you're good enough to get out on tour, you're extraordinary.

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Speaker 1: You're an extraordinary athlete. You can do anything. You take

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Speaker 1: me to a fair, we walk away with all the

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Speaker 1: big toys, you know, and every tour players that way.

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Speaker 1: They can throw balls, they can catch balls, they can

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Speaker 1: move any So I can make anything work, and so

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Speaker 1: can tour players. So you know, you're convinced through your

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Speaker 1: own athleticism and your ability to do things, that there

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Speaker 1: might be merit to whatever it is you're trying. You know,

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Speaker 1: with me, it was rotate the face, keep the club

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Speaker 1: head outside your hands, resist with the turn, squat down

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Speaker 1: in the right leg, feel the tension in the right leg,

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Speaker 1: you know, snap, drag the club on the way back,

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Speaker 1: and then quickly change direction. All these things. Next thing,

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Speaker 1: you know, I'd go play with my buddies and they'd say, well,

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Speaker 1: you're a change of direction is quick. Your backswing's not

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Speaker 1: as long. Slow it down, And You're like, well, yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: I guess it is because I'm not turning, because I'm

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Speaker 1: being told time and time again that I can hit

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Speaker 1: it further without a turn because I build tension, you

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Speaker 1: know that. And that's why I wrote and continue to

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Speaker 1: write about that topic, is because it still pervades in

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Speaker 1: the game of golf. It's still everywhere in the game

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Speaker 1: of golf. I watched TV and I just see players

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Speaker 1: restricting their turns, and I think it's just at some

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Speaker 1: point they'll figure it out in their lives. It's wrong,

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Speaker 1: but the thought still pervades the game of golf.

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Speaker 2: It's funny. I'm not really I don't think about my

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Speaker 2: golf swing that much. But since I started going to

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Speaker 2: an instructor like eight years ago. He's a young guy,

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Speaker 2: he's a buddy of a buddy, and I go there.

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Speaker 2: I see him like a couple times a year. But

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Speaker 2: we've got just a few things we work on. I

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Speaker 2: never look at my swing on video and I'm playing

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Speaker 2: the best golf of my life.

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Speaker 1: Well that I mean that. That is a great teacher,

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Speaker 1: you know, and they're don't get me wrong. There are

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Speaker 1: a lot of great teachers out there, a lot and

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Speaker 1: the genius of a great teachers that they can take

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Speaker 1: everything they know and boil it down to something very simple,

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Speaker 1: like you go get a lesson. They're not trying to

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Speaker 1: show you how smart they are. They're just trying to

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Speaker 1: help you become a better golfer. And you know, it

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Speaker 1: can be as simple as you know, fill your hands

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Speaker 1: on your right shoulder going back and on your left

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Speaker 1: shoulder going to That could do it. You know, it's

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Speaker 1: just as simple as that. Anything. You know, they don't

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Speaker 1: they don't need to elaborate anymore. And then they certainly

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Speaker 1: don't need to put your golf swing on video. Hank

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Speaker 1: Haney told me the entire time he worked with Tiger Woods,

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Speaker 1: I was had from two thousand and four to six

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Speaker 1: seven years, six years, he only put his golf swing

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Speaker 1: on the video. A handful of times they didn't. They

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Speaker 1: didn't use video as a general rule. They would just

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Speaker 1: talk about shots, you know, and and having a fluency

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Speaker 1: of what Hank calls the nine shots.

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Speaker 2: It's uh, do you think that track man has you know,

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Speaker 2: diminished the naturalness of golf?

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Speaker 1: Well, you know, track Man is is interesting. I have

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Speaker 1: it in the past, called it a toy, and you know,

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Speaker 1: the more accurate word is a luxury. It was a luxury.

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Speaker 1: I would say it came about. You know, it started

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Speaker 1: being pervasive on the PGA Tour in two thousand and six,

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Speaker 1: and it's gone from being a luxury to being a necessity,

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Speaker 1: you know, like your computer and your cell phone in

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Speaker 1: a microwave and a TV. Initially they were luxuries, luxuries

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Speaker 1: and now they're necessities. And I get it. If you're

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Speaker 1: building equipment, there's a need for precision, the precision that

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Speaker 1: you get from track Man, and I get it from

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Speaker 1: a scientific standpoint of trying to understand exactly what's going on.

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Speaker 1: That precision is needed. You need that, okay, and track

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Speaker 1: Man gives you that. But the disconnect starts to happen

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Speaker 1: when what is what a teacher needs it for precision

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Speaker 1: in understanding what's happening in the golf swing, but it's

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Speaker 1: not essential to a player. It has not been demonstrated

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Speaker 1: to me that it has improved play on the PGA

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Speaker 1: Tour if you go back and look in two thousand

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Speaker 1: and six, when track Man first arrived on the PGA

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Speaker 1: Tour twenty seventeen, so over a decade, players are more

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Speaker 1: inaccurate off of the tee. They hit it further away

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Speaker 1: from the hull. You know, scoring average has improved point

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Speaker 1: two percent of a shot, so two tents of a shot.

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Speaker 1: But most of that improvement, almost all of it is

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Speaker 1: from their improvement on the greens. It's not from what

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Speaker 1: the agronomy exactly. You're breeding my mind and better strokes agronomy.

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Speaker 1: But what they're doing tee to green is not better,

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Speaker 1: it's worse. They are hitting it further, no question about that.

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Speaker 1: And maybe that's due to the observation that launch angle,

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Speaker 1: optimizing launch angle and spin rate, and the idea that

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Speaker 1: when you get on track man, people will talk about

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Speaker 1: maximizing your length. Say to maximize your link, you have

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Speaker 1: to hit up on it. Okay, that's in any video

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Speaker 1: you'll watch on track Man, they'll talk to They'll say,

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Speaker 1: in order to maximize your link, you need to hit

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Speaker 1: on it. And I think that's important to amateur golfers,

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Speaker 1: no question about it. You know most of them can

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Speaker 1: hit up on it and pick up ten twenty thirty

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Speaker 1: yards just like that. But in professional golf, you won't

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Speaker 1: hear anybody say to maximize accuracy, you need to hit

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Speaker 1: down on it slightly with your driver. Nobody will say that.

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Speaker 1: They won't go there. But if one is true, shouldn't

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Speaker 1: the opposite hold true. So, and the reason they won't

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Speaker 1: is because there's no doubt on that they don't know.

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Speaker 1: They don't know if hitting one degree down on or

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Speaker 1: two degrees down on it actually does make you hit

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Speaker 1: it straighter. But in my mind it does. So I

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Speaker 1: think across the board you have people trying to hit

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Speaker 1: it as far as they can by hitting it high

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Speaker 1: with little spin. So they're three yards longer over a decade,

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Speaker 1: but they hit it more in the rough, a fair

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Speaker 1: amount rough, and they're further away from the hole, so

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Speaker 1: they're not It's not essential that a player use it

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Speaker 1: to get better because it hasn't made them better. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and we're talking we're not talking about one or two years.

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Speaker 1: Here were over a decade. Four hundred professionals are carrying

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Speaker 1: track man's with them right now. Four hundred carried around

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Speaker 1: with them, and you know, it's not clear that it's

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Speaker 1: made them better.

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Speaker 2: Matt Fitzpatrick was on the No Laying Up podcast last

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Speaker 2: week and he actually talked about how in the middle

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Speaker 2: of last year he was chasing, trying to really get

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Speaker 2: the most out of his distance, and the performance like

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Speaker 2: he had a string of bad, really bad performances and

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Speaker 2: he went back to, you know, hitting fairways. He realized

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Speaker 2: how important it was for him to hit faaraways. And

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Speaker 2: I think that's something that gets overlooked with guys that

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Speaker 2: aren't mega long, is it's so important for them to

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Speaker 2: hit fairaways because that's they get there's such a disadvantage

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Speaker 2: in the rough they missed the fairway.

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Speaker 1: So true, and you know, a fine point there for

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Speaker 1: everybody is that when you get on track man inevitably

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Speaker 1: the video goes, well you could hit it further if

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Speaker 1: you hit it higher, Well, how do you hit it higher?

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Speaker 1: You can just move the ball up a little bit.

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Speaker 1: But inevitably it goes with either leaning your hips towards

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Speaker 1: you know, moving your hips towards the target and changing

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Speaker 1: your acess tilt where your you know, your your upper

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Speaker 1: body leans backwards, or you change your release pattern. Either

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Speaker 1: way you're changing something for a few extra yards. And

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Speaker 1: if you don't have the power to hit it three ten,

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Speaker 1: three twenty, it's very important. And Matthew Fitzpatrick doesn't need

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Speaker 1: you need to find fairways. Again, you don't hear I

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Speaker 1: don't hear many people and I go online and I

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Speaker 1: watch them all. I watch their lessons. All these teachers,

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Speaker 1: I just click on their lessons and I watch them

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Speaker 1: and I listen to them, and I take notes, and

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Speaker 1: I don't hear them talking about maximizing accuracy. I hear

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Speaker 1: them talking a lot about maximizing distance, and then you know,

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Speaker 1: obsessing about path and face angle. And they they will say,

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Speaker 1: you go listen to them. They'll say, these are new

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Speaker 1: ball flight laws. Like nobody knew this stuff before. Paul

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Speaker 1: Runyon was a heck of a player back in the

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Speaker 1: thirties and forties. He wrote a book and in that

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Speaker 1: book he talks about if the club's going down the

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Speaker 1: path is to the right, if the club's going up

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Speaker 1: path is to the left. He knew it eighty years ago.

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Speaker 1: He wrote about it eighty years ago. You know, I

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Speaker 1: don't need to spend twenty five thousand dollars on a

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Speaker 1: machine that's going to tell me that if I'm descending,

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Speaker 1: my path is going to the right. You know what

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Speaker 1: I used to do when I hit punch shots, I

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Speaker 1: aimed left. I aimed left because when I hit punches

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Speaker 1: they would go to the right. I've pretty much figured

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Speaker 1: that because I was steeper hitting a punch shot, the

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Speaker 1: path was to the right, so I aimed left. Do

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Speaker 1: you know why most golfers in the history of the

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Speaker 1: PGA Tour have aimed left off of the t because

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Speaker 1: they're hitting one degree down on it. Generally speaking, a

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Speaker 1: lot of them are hitting it, hitting more up on

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Speaker 1: it now for distance, but they were hitting down on it,

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Speaker 1: and they knew that they were hitting down on it.

427
00:22:09,960 --> 00:22:12,600
Speaker 1: I mean maybe they didn't use those words, but they

428
00:22:12,680 --> 00:22:14,840
Speaker 1: knew that when they tried to aim straight, the ball

429
00:22:14,840 --> 00:22:17,600
Speaker 1: would start right, so they just opened up.

430
00:22:18,400 --> 00:22:22,160
Speaker 2: I remember watching a pregame show where you said most

431
00:22:22,160 --> 00:22:26,919
Speaker 2: of the great ball strikers and golf aimed left off

432
00:22:27,000 --> 00:22:29,480
Speaker 2: the tee especially, and it's always stuck with me. And

433
00:22:29,480 --> 00:22:31,320
Speaker 2: since I started aiming left, I've driven the ball a

434
00:22:31,359 --> 00:22:31,800
Speaker 2: lot better.

435
00:22:32,560 --> 00:22:35,399
Speaker 1: Well. Aim and left is it allows you to do

436
00:22:35,520 --> 00:22:38,359
Speaker 1: so many things. You know, it allows you to build

437
00:22:38,400 --> 00:22:40,480
Speaker 1: a nice brace into your right side going back and

438
00:22:40,560 --> 00:22:43,000
Speaker 1: push off you know, your right leg, but it also

439
00:22:43,040 --> 00:22:46,240
Speaker 1: allows you to clear faster and open up, which which

440
00:22:46,280 --> 00:22:49,120
Speaker 1: holds off your release, and it gives you a more

441
00:22:49,160 --> 00:22:52,360
Speaker 1: stable release through the ball. But all those things tor

442
00:22:52,440 --> 00:22:53,760
Speaker 1: pros used to do instinctively.

443
00:22:54,920 --> 00:22:58,520
Speaker 3: So speaking of technology and track man, obviously technology is

444
00:22:58,560 --> 00:23:00,840
Speaker 3: a hot topic, not only this we in Orlando, but

445
00:23:01,119 --> 00:23:04,320
Speaker 3: all across the PGA Tour. Where do you see the

446
00:23:04,359 --> 00:23:07,320
Speaker 3: game evolving from here and with you know, obviously the

447
00:23:07,320 --> 00:23:10,399
Speaker 3: golf ball and the clubs getting stronger and more powerful.

448
00:23:10,520 --> 00:23:13,800
Speaker 3: Will PGA Tour courses be able to hold up over

449
00:23:13,840 --> 00:23:14,360
Speaker 3: the testimony?

450
00:23:14,400 --> 00:23:17,439
Speaker 1: Well, the line in the sand has been drawn. You know,

451
00:23:17,560 --> 00:23:19,880
Speaker 1: there's something known as the rebound effect in the face.

452
00:23:19,920 --> 00:23:23,480
Speaker 1: The drivers, you guys would know what it's called. Cor

453
00:23:23,240 --> 00:23:27,000
Speaker 1: that line is drawn, you cannot have a face with

454
00:23:27,040 --> 00:23:31,760
Speaker 1: any more rebound in it going forward. The volume of

455
00:23:31,760 --> 00:23:34,679
Speaker 1: a head, the line in the sand is drawn, it

456
00:23:34,680 --> 00:23:37,240
Speaker 1: can't get any bigger than four to sixty ccs. The

457
00:23:37,359 --> 00:23:39,919
Speaker 1: moi then can't get any more. The moment of inertia

458
00:23:39,960 --> 00:23:42,280
Speaker 1: can't get anymore. The length of a driver can't get anymore,

459
00:23:42,320 --> 00:23:45,080
Speaker 1: the speed of a golf ball can't get any more. So,

460
00:23:45,200 --> 00:23:47,240
Speaker 1: for the first time ever in the history of golf,

461
00:23:47,359 --> 00:23:50,040
Speaker 1: the parameters for distance have been set. They're set in

462
00:23:50,119 --> 00:23:52,520
Speaker 1: stone and they're not going to change. So, for the

463
00:23:52,520 --> 00:23:56,440
Speaker 1: first time ever, any improvements in driving distance or accuracy,

464
00:23:56,600 --> 00:24:02,280
Speaker 1: or greens and regulation or score can be rightly attributed

465
00:24:02,320 --> 00:24:05,320
Speaker 1: to the athlete. You know, for the last twenty thirty years,

466
00:24:05,440 --> 00:24:08,000
Speaker 1: every single time someone hit it further or there was

467
00:24:08,040 --> 00:24:11,359
Speaker 1: a better scoring and it was always the equipment. Blame

468
00:24:11,400 --> 00:24:14,439
Speaker 1: the ball, blame the clubs. And now you can actually

469
00:24:14,480 --> 00:24:17,359
Speaker 1: look at the athlete and go wow. You know, I

470
00:24:17,359 --> 00:24:22,080
Speaker 1: think since nineteen eighty to now, tour pros are thirty

471
00:24:22,080 --> 00:24:25,120
Speaker 1: six yards longer thirty six yards, and there's a lot

472
00:24:25,200 --> 00:24:27,320
Speaker 1: that makes up that thirty six yards. It's not just

473
00:24:27,359 --> 00:24:30,840
Speaker 1: the ball. It's the rebound effect in the driver. It's

474
00:24:30,880 --> 00:24:33,080
Speaker 1: the length of the driver, it's the forgiveness in the

475
00:24:33,160 --> 00:24:35,720
Speaker 1: head which encourage you to just swing harder. It's the agronomy.

476
00:24:36,000 --> 00:24:38,400
Speaker 1: And then finally it's the athlete. You know, you look

477
00:24:38,400 --> 00:24:41,200
Speaker 1: at them, I mean they look like you know, Olympic athletes.

478
00:24:41,240 --> 00:24:45,480
Speaker 1: They used to look like plumbers, and you know, they

479
00:24:45,600 --> 00:24:47,159
Speaker 1: hit the ball further because of it. A lot of

480
00:24:47,160 --> 00:24:50,440
Speaker 1: those factors. So now going forward, we're going to see

481
00:24:50,680 --> 00:24:52,400
Speaker 1: cool stuff. They're going to have to figure out how

482
00:24:52,400 --> 00:24:55,359
Speaker 1: to stabilize the face. Taylor mate's got a new driver,

483
00:24:55,520 --> 00:24:58,440
Speaker 1: Calloway's got a new driver. You look at them and

484
00:24:59,640 --> 00:25:03,000
Speaker 1: there's arts for both of them. They're really cool, but

485
00:25:03,040 --> 00:25:07,040
Speaker 1: they're not about speed. They're about strength or about accuracy. More.

486
00:25:08,600 --> 00:25:13,280
Speaker 2: Do you say the PGA tour folded tomorrow and you

487
00:25:13,320 --> 00:25:16,919
Speaker 2: are the commissioner of a brand new tour, what would

488
00:25:17,480 --> 00:25:18,600
Speaker 2: equipment look like?

489
00:25:19,920 --> 00:25:23,080
Speaker 1: Oh, I wouldn't. I wouldn't change equipment. I wouldn't at all.

490
00:25:23,200 --> 00:25:25,680
Speaker 1: I wouldn't roll back the equipment. I wouldn't roll back

491
00:25:25,720 --> 00:25:30,280
Speaker 1: the ball. I'm you know. The the thing that was

492
00:25:30,400 --> 00:25:33,560
Speaker 1: missed in equipment was originally there was supposed to be

493
00:25:33,640 --> 00:25:38,320
Speaker 1: no rebound in the face, but drivers were made in

494
00:25:38,320 --> 00:25:41,399
Speaker 1: the early nineties with rebound and the USGA didn't call

495
00:25:41,520 --> 00:25:44,840
Speaker 1: kings X on the deal, and so the horse literally

496
00:25:44,880 --> 00:25:47,760
Speaker 1: was out of the barn. And because they got a

497
00:25:47,840 --> 00:25:52,080
Speaker 1: nice run, they felt like, for whatever reason, they weren't

498
00:25:52,119 --> 00:25:59,080
Speaker 1: gonna retroactively disallow them. So I'm quite happy. But if

499
00:25:59,119 --> 00:26:00,920
Speaker 1: I were the one thing I would do, if I

500
00:26:00,960 --> 00:26:04,080
Speaker 1: were the commissioner of the PGA tours, I would implore

501
00:26:04,119 --> 00:26:08,199
Speaker 1: the u s GA or rewrite the anchoring rule. You know,

502
00:26:08,320 --> 00:26:14,280
Speaker 1: it's very vague, it is poorly applied, and it's caused

503
00:26:14,280 --> 00:26:19,680
Speaker 1: a lot of acrimony, and you know, it's it's it's

504
00:26:19,760 --> 00:26:23,800
Speaker 1: it's not fun to watch. So I would definitely have

505
00:26:24,400 --> 00:26:27,240
Speaker 1: that I would either allow it or disallow it properly,

506
00:26:27,320 --> 00:26:28,400
Speaker 1: with proper language.

507
00:26:28,640 --> 00:26:30,880
Speaker 2: Yeah, like the I use the arm locked for a while,

508
00:26:30,920 --> 00:26:33,680
Speaker 2: and I know Bryson uses it, Kutre uses it. How

509
00:26:33,720 --> 00:26:35,879
Speaker 2: is that different than using like a belly putter.

510
00:26:36,560 --> 00:26:40,399
Speaker 1: Well, yeah, I mean I hear that, you know. You know,

511
00:26:40,520 --> 00:26:44,119
Speaker 1: my my response to that would be, is that the

512
00:26:44,160 --> 00:26:46,760
Speaker 1: butt end of the club when you when you use

513
00:26:46,760 --> 00:26:49,840
Speaker 1: a belly putter, you've you've created a folk rum when

514
00:26:49,880 --> 00:26:53,359
Speaker 1: you when you lock your putter against your arm. Yeah,

515
00:26:53,400 --> 00:26:55,960
Speaker 1: there is benefits to that, no question about it, but

516
00:26:58,520 --> 00:27:01,160
Speaker 1: you you haven't created a full crumble. What I would

517
00:27:01,280 --> 00:27:03,719
Speaker 1: argue is that and you know, look, I don't know.

518
00:27:03,840 --> 00:27:06,919
Speaker 1: Maybe the answer is is that is that you have

519
00:27:06,960 --> 00:27:08,919
Speaker 1: to have both hands on the club. You know, you

520
00:27:09,000 --> 00:27:12,320
Speaker 1: have to have both hands on the putter. But then again,

521
00:27:12,359 --> 00:27:16,720
Speaker 1: I've seen people put one handed, you know. Have you

522
00:27:16,720 --> 00:27:19,000
Speaker 1: seen all these schnyder Dans do that? Have you seen him,

523
00:27:19,080 --> 00:27:21,080
Speaker 1: I mean takes it back with two hands, hits it

524
00:27:21,119 --> 00:27:25,800
Speaker 1: with one hand. You know, Mike Hulbert putted one handed

525
00:27:25,840 --> 00:27:29,720
Speaker 1: for a while on the PGA tour. So you know,

526
00:27:29,760 --> 00:27:33,320
Speaker 1: I would definitely address and talk to all the governing

527
00:27:33,359 --> 00:27:37,560
Speaker 1: bodies about the clearing up the ambiguity and big Euwey

528
00:27:38,400 --> 00:27:43,399
Speaker 1: ambiguous nature. Excuse me of the ruling on the anchored putter.

529
00:27:43,560 --> 00:27:45,640
Speaker 3: So there's no question in your mind right now that

530
00:27:45,640 --> 00:27:47,360
Speaker 3: there are people that are anchoring.

531
00:27:48,280 --> 00:27:50,520
Speaker 1: Well, there's no question in my mind that they look

532
00:27:50,600 --> 00:27:54,160
Speaker 1: like they're answered. You know, what they're doing is legal

533
00:27:54,640 --> 00:27:58,919
Speaker 1: because you know they've looked quite closely at it, and

534
00:27:59,000 --> 00:28:01,199
Speaker 1: those that are doing it explain it to those that

535
00:28:01,240 --> 00:28:04,199
Speaker 1: are looking closely at it, and those that are in

536
00:28:04,280 --> 00:28:07,159
Speaker 1: charge of making the rules say there is you know,

537
00:28:07,200 --> 00:28:09,919
Speaker 1: there's nothing wrong here. It just looks like there is.

538
00:28:11,880 --> 00:28:15,199
Speaker 1: I would argue, and I do argue, that if it

539
00:28:15,240 --> 00:28:20,400
Speaker 1: touches your shirt, that that provides a soft anchor, it's

540
00:28:20,400 --> 00:28:23,159
Speaker 1: well within the rules. So what they're doing is legal.

541
00:28:23,240 --> 00:28:27,240
Speaker 1: I'm not saying it's not. But in my mind, if

542
00:28:27,280 --> 00:28:30,200
Speaker 1: you touch your shirt, then I have some spatial awareness

543
00:28:30,240 --> 00:28:35,040
Speaker 1: of where the fulcrum is, and I think personally that's

544
00:28:35,040 --> 00:28:37,919
Speaker 1: an advantage. Billy Casper did the same thing. You know,

545
00:28:37,960 --> 00:28:40,400
Speaker 1: he touched his left leg when he putt it. You know,

546
00:28:40,480 --> 00:28:42,880
Speaker 1: it wasn't illegal then nobody even talked about it. It

547
00:28:42,960 --> 00:28:44,840
Speaker 1: was just a stroke that was peculiar to him, and

548
00:28:44,880 --> 00:28:46,440
Speaker 1: he was one of the great putters of all time.

549
00:28:47,080 --> 00:28:49,320
Speaker 1: I'm writing a book right now on short game and putting,

550
00:28:49,880 --> 00:28:52,440
Speaker 1: and Billy Casper will certainly be in it, no question

551
00:28:52,520 --> 00:28:55,560
Speaker 1: about it, you know, because I love the way his

552
00:28:55,560 --> 00:28:59,120
Speaker 1: putter had worked. But you know, at various times he

553
00:28:59,240 --> 00:29:02,000
Speaker 1: touched his left leg with his putter, and to you

554
00:29:02,040 --> 00:29:04,920
Speaker 1: know that that gives you spatial awareness where the full

555
00:29:05,000 --> 00:29:09,440
Speaker 1: crum is. And it's difficult to write a rule that

556
00:29:09,720 --> 00:29:13,640
Speaker 1: disallows somebody touching their clothes because at some point when

557
00:29:13,680 --> 00:29:15,920
Speaker 1: you swing, say, if you've got a jacket on, it's

558
00:29:15,920 --> 00:29:19,600
Speaker 1: going to touch your clothes, right if it's windy. I

559
00:29:19,640 --> 00:29:27,080
Speaker 1: get the difficulty in the language and the ambiguity with

560
00:29:27,120 --> 00:29:30,280
Speaker 1: the language. I get that, but I would make it

561
00:29:30,320 --> 00:29:33,120
Speaker 1: a priority and then try to figure out how to

562
00:29:33,240 --> 00:29:38,400
Speaker 1: because you know, in my mind it does provide a

563
00:29:38,440 --> 00:29:41,560
Speaker 1: soft anchor, and that's what I call it. Again, they're

564
00:29:41,600 --> 00:29:43,320
Speaker 1: well within their rules to do it. I tell the

565
00:29:43,360 --> 00:29:46,840
Speaker 1: players that are doing it, it's clearly it's legal. Keep

566
00:29:46,840 --> 00:29:48,840
Speaker 1: on at it. But if I were the commission of

567
00:29:48,880 --> 00:29:50,000
Speaker 1: the tour, I would change that.

568
00:29:50,320 --> 00:29:54,040
Speaker 3: I've definitely seen more close up of Longer's chest that

569
00:29:54,160 --> 00:29:55,400
Speaker 3: I need to see for a whole.

570
00:29:57,800 --> 00:30:01,240
Speaker 1: Right. It's like, you know, we've got this bizarre right,

571
00:30:01,280 --> 00:30:04,200
Speaker 1: and that's because of the rule. We shouldn't be focusing

572
00:30:04,280 --> 00:30:07,959
Speaker 1: on that. But the whole world of golf is because

573
00:30:08,120 --> 00:30:11,040
Speaker 1: anytime you see you know, there's several players out there,

574
00:30:11,040 --> 00:30:14,000
Speaker 1: it's not just Langer that are doing that. Your attention

575
00:30:14,080 --> 00:30:16,840
Speaker 1: goes right to that spot and it takes away from

576
00:30:17,280 --> 00:30:18,520
Speaker 1: what they're doing otherwise.

577
00:30:19,720 --> 00:30:24,680
Speaker 2: So if you could take any of today's great players

578
00:30:25,040 --> 00:30:28,720
Speaker 2: and pit them against a player of another generation, for

579
00:30:28,920 --> 00:30:32,000
Speaker 2: like in their prime, for a live TV match, who

580
00:30:32,040 --> 00:30:32,920
Speaker 2: what would the match be?

581
00:30:33,200 --> 00:30:34,480
Speaker 1: Well, that's pretty easy.

582
00:30:34,600 --> 00:30:34,800
Speaker 2: You know.

583
00:30:35,480 --> 00:30:40,920
Speaker 1: Tiger two thousand against Jack sixty.

584
00:30:40,520 --> 00:30:43,600
Speaker 2: Five today, player today, Oh.

585
00:30:43,480 --> 00:30:49,360
Speaker 1: Player today right now against somebody? Oh well, Jordan Speaeth

586
00:30:49,480 --> 00:30:52,240
Speaker 1: twenty fifteen against Tiger two thousand.

587
00:30:52,600 --> 00:30:54,680
Speaker 3: You know, do you think that's comparable.

588
00:30:56,240 --> 00:31:00,320
Speaker 1: No, there'll never be another Tiger ever. Tiger was shakes beer.

589
00:31:00,360 --> 00:31:04,760
Speaker 1: You know, five hundred years from now, for the species survives,

590
00:31:05,320 --> 00:31:09,600
Speaker 1: they'll be talking about Tiger Woods. You know, as the

591
00:31:10,640 --> 00:31:12,840
Speaker 1: by far the greatest golfer of all time. You know,

592
00:31:13,640 --> 00:31:16,120
Speaker 1: there's no bigger Jack Nicholas fan in the world than me,

593
00:31:16,800 --> 00:31:20,760
Speaker 1: not only as a father and a the way he

594
00:31:20,840 --> 00:31:22,920
Speaker 1: handled himself in the game and the way he played it.

595
00:31:22,960 --> 00:31:25,960
Speaker 1: I never thought i'd see anything like him. But from

596
00:31:26,040 --> 00:31:29,400
Speaker 1: just a purely golf standpoint, when I'm around people that

597
00:31:29,560 --> 00:31:32,240
Speaker 1: say Jack was the better player, I'm like, well, you

598
00:31:32,320 --> 00:31:36,160
Speaker 1: really haven't looked at it. Then Tiger's win percentage was double,

599
00:31:36,800 --> 00:31:41,280
Speaker 1: his average margin of victory was double. You know, his

600
00:31:41,400 --> 00:31:44,160
Speaker 1: wins five shots or more was a double. You know,

601
00:31:44,240 --> 00:31:47,240
Speaker 1: you start running up against this at double twice as good.

602
00:31:47,440 --> 00:31:50,240
Speaker 1: That's twice as good as Jack. A lot. When you

603
00:31:50,240 --> 00:31:53,520
Speaker 1: start looking at Tiger and Jack twice as good, twice

604
00:31:53,560 --> 00:31:56,200
Speaker 1: as good, twice as good, it pops up over and

605
00:31:56,240 --> 00:31:56,760
Speaker 1: over and over.

606
00:31:56,800 --> 00:31:59,080
Speaker 3: It And what we mentioned the athletes have you know,

607
00:31:59,200 --> 00:32:01,600
Speaker 3: evolved for time to be better?

608
00:32:02,000 --> 00:32:04,400
Speaker 1: Yes, I mean Jack was one hell of an athlete,

609
00:32:04,400 --> 00:32:07,880
Speaker 1: no question about it. And Jack is and that look

610
00:32:07,920 --> 00:32:10,600
Speaker 1: it's you say you can't compare errors. I hear it

611
00:32:10,640 --> 00:32:12,800
Speaker 1: all the time. It's like, no, everybody does. You can.

612
00:32:12,920 --> 00:32:16,800
Speaker 1: It's inconvenient because somebody's general gets demoted to corporal, you know,

613
00:32:16,960 --> 00:32:20,760
Speaker 1: but you know you can. And I think it's important

614
00:32:20,800 --> 00:32:24,200
Speaker 1: to study the best because it's like whatever worked is

615
00:32:24,240 --> 00:32:26,520
Speaker 1: what does work? You know, what did Tiger did? What

616
00:32:26,680 --> 00:32:30,239
Speaker 1: made him so good. I'd love to see that, you know,

617
00:32:30,400 --> 00:32:35,640
Speaker 1: Rory McRoy at his best against Tiger or Jack or Hogan,

618
00:32:35,760 --> 00:32:38,960
Speaker 1: you know, if you know, I'd love to see Tiger

619
00:32:39,400 --> 00:32:42,000
Speaker 1: at his best, you know, Tiger two thousand against Hogan

620
00:32:42,040 --> 00:32:45,320
Speaker 1: fifty three. You know, I'd give anything to see that,

621
00:32:45,880 --> 00:32:48,960
Speaker 1: you know, you know, or the best would be you know,

622
00:32:49,000 --> 00:32:51,959
Speaker 1: Bobby Jones in thirty, Jack sixty five or seventy two.

623
00:32:52,040 --> 00:32:55,040
Speaker 1: Take your pick, Hogan fifty three, Tiger two thousand. You

624
00:32:55,080 --> 00:32:57,320
Speaker 1: get those four, and that's that's the greatest golf that's

625
00:32:57,360 --> 00:33:04,240
Speaker 1: ever been played. You know, there are a lot of

626
00:33:04,240 --> 00:33:07,480
Speaker 1: good players in the game right now, but we were

627
00:33:07,680 --> 00:33:11,240
Speaker 1: blessed to have been able to watch Tiger Woods. Absolutely. Yeah.

628
00:33:11,360 --> 00:33:14,040
Speaker 3: Speaking of some of the you know, great classic swings,

629
00:33:14,040 --> 00:33:18,160
Speaker 3: who's on your mount rushmore of golf swings.

630
00:33:18,080 --> 00:33:22,000
Speaker 1: Well, Sam Snead, you know, there's you know, there are

631
00:33:22,000 --> 00:33:24,760
Speaker 1: a lot of different ways to do that. I'm writing

632
00:33:24,800 --> 00:33:27,920
Speaker 1: a book right now in the short game, but I'm

633
00:33:27,920 --> 00:33:30,760
Speaker 1: halfway through a book that'll come out right after that.

634
00:33:30,920 --> 00:33:33,680
Speaker 1: The third book, all right, is just the one hundred

635
00:33:33,720 --> 00:33:37,000
Speaker 1: greatest swings of all time? Who had it, what they did?

636
00:33:37,800 --> 00:33:40,560
Speaker 1: And so when you discuss that. Is it from an

637
00:33:40,560 --> 00:33:44,120
Speaker 1: aesthetic standpoint? Is it from a success standpoint? You know

638
00:33:44,160 --> 00:33:47,520
Speaker 1: what makes a great golf swing. But Calvin Pete will

639
00:33:47,520 --> 00:33:51,080
Speaker 1: certainly be in there. You know, Calvin Pete is the

640
00:33:51,120 --> 00:33:53,840
Speaker 1: straightest hitters ever played the game. And you know, I

641
00:33:53,960 --> 00:33:55,640
Speaker 1: hear it over and over again when I say Calvin

642
00:33:55,640 --> 00:33:57,560
Speaker 1: Pete's the straightest hitters ever play the game, and people

643
00:33:57,560 --> 00:34:00,840
Speaker 1: are like, yeah because of his broken left arm, Like no, no,

644
00:34:01,200 --> 00:34:03,280
Speaker 1: it is so quick. It doesn't matter. You choose a player,

645
00:34:04,000 --> 00:34:06,680
Speaker 1: and it doesn't matter who it is, John Day, Bubba Watson.

646
00:34:07,880 --> 00:34:11,759
Speaker 1: The way the world dismisses what they do is by

647
00:34:11,760 --> 00:34:14,960
Speaker 1: calling them a freak or attributing their success to some

648
00:34:15,080 --> 00:34:19,360
Speaker 1: idio secrecy, because I don't know why. People are just

649
00:34:19,440 --> 00:34:23,840
Speaker 1: uncomfortable dealing with the move. The move they made is

650
00:34:23,840 --> 00:34:27,359
Speaker 1: what made him a straight hitter. And Calvin Pete's move

651
00:34:28,320 --> 00:34:31,000
Speaker 1: was very similar to Ben Hogan's. Now if we if

652
00:34:31,040 --> 00:34:32,960
Speaker 1: they had statistics back then, I have no doubt that

653
00:34:32,960 --> 00:34:36,880
Speaker 1: Ben Hogan would have hit it. You know, he'd have

654
00:34:36,920 --> 00:34:42,040
Speaker 1: been in Calvin Pete's neighborhood, very very similar body motions.

655
00:34:42,040 --> 00:34:47,080
Speaker 1: Hogan would have been longer because Hogan was a phenomenal athlete,

656
00:34:48,440 --> 00:34:54,719
Speaker 1: so Ben Hogan, Sam's need Tiger Woods two thousand. You know,

657
00:34:55,120 --> 00:34:57,560
Speaker 1: those those are the Mount Rushmore of golf swings.

658
00:34:57,800 --> 00:35:00,560
Speaker 3: We have a golf gambling at game at all. You know,

659
00:35:00,719 --> 00:35:02,520
Speaker 3: the guy in the middle plays the guy on the

660
00:35:02,600 --> 00:35:05,120
Speaker 3: left and the guy on the right, and we call

661
00:35:05,160 --> 00:35:06,200
Speaker 3: it the Calvin Peak game.

662
00:35:06,680 --> 00:35:10,879
Speaker 1: Seriously, no kidding, Yeah, well, I mean, I'm just I'm

663
00:35:10,920 --> 00:35:13,400
Speaker 1: amazed at how little people talk about his golf swing.

664
00:35:13,560 --> 00:35:16,080
Speaker 1: You think about it. I'm around people all the time

665
00:35:16,120 --> 00:35:19,440
Speaker 1: talking about golf swings, and they'll never ever bring up

666
00:35:19,480 --> 00:35:21,680
Speaker 1: Calvin Pete's golf swing. Here's a guy that led driving

667
00:35:21,719 --> 00:35:25,360
Speaker 1: accuracy ten years in a row. Whoever led driving accuracy

668
00:35:25,440 --> 00:35:29,800
Speaker 1: last year, I'm trying to remember who it was. Anyway,

669
00:35:29,840 --> 00:35:32,600
Speaker 1: whoever it was, I wrote it down, I forgot it.

670
00:35:32,640 --> 00:35:35,680
Speaker 1: But they won't lead it this year, you know. And

671
00:35:35,719 --> 00:35:37,520
Speaker 1: whoever let it five years ago didn't lead it the

672
00:35:37,560 --> 00:35:40,400
Speaker 1: next year. You know. You know, Fred Funk had a

673
00:35:40,480 --> 00:35:47,200
Speaker 1: nice run in there, Jerry Kelly, Joe Durant, Mike Read.

674
00:35:48,520 --> 00:35:51,480
Speaker 1: You know, they very straight hitters, no question about it.

675
00:35:51,520 --> 00:35:54,800
Speaker 1: But only one person to ten years in a row,

676
00:35:55,480 --> 00:35:58,200
Speaker 1: ten in a row, and also led greens and regulation.

677
00:35:59,280 --> 00:35:59,880
Speaker 3: That's crazy.

678
00:36:00,080 --> 00:36:01,880
Speaker 1: And you know, you look at his golf swing. If

679
00:36:01,920 --> 00:36:04,439
Speaker 1: I put it face to face right and I put

680
00:36:04,480 --> 00:36:08,120
Speaker 1: Ben Hogan right beside him and they start to make

681
00:36:08,160 --> 00:36:10,279
Speaker 1: their move into the backswing, you will see that they

682
00:36:10,360 --> 00:36:15,000
Speaker 1: both they both move right. They both very early straighten

683
00:36:15,000 --> 00:36:17,640
Speaker 1: the right leg and it's not rigid. It's not locked,

684
00:36:17,680 --> 00:36:20,160
Speaker 1: I'm not saying that, but it straightens. It's straight in

685
00:36:20,280 --> 00:36:21,680
Speaker 1: to where when you're looking at it face on, it

686
00:36:21,719 --> 00:36:24,960
Speaker 1: looks like a ruler straight and then they turn their

687
00:36:25,000 --> 00:36:28,840
Speaker 1: hips against that and then they use that pressure to

688
00:36:28,960 --> 00:36:31,560
Speaker 1: push into their left side and they move latterly and

689
00:36:31,600 --> 00:36:35,880
Speaker 1: then they extend and they rotate, and that move is

690
00:36:36,000 --> 00:36:39,440
Speaker 1: not resisting with the lower body. It's not keeping flexing

691
00:36:39,480 --> 00:36:43,400
Speaker 1: the right leg. But you go out on a range

692
00:36:43,440 --> 00:36:46,239
Speaker 1: right now and there'll be somebody out there teaching keep

693
00:36:46,239 --> 00:36:48,720
Speaker 1: the flexing the right leg and resist lower body. Meanwhile,

694
00:36:48,760 --> 00:36:51,399
Speaker 1: the person who had it straighter and anybody ever has

695
00:36:52,040 --> 00:36:55,120
Speaker 1: ever didn't do that, and nor did Ben Hogan.

696
00:36:55,920 --> 00:36:59,719
Speaker 2: So with today's game, in the last two years, we've

697
00:36:59,719 --> 00:37:03,960
Speaker 2: seen and the a correlation between driving distance and the

698
00:37:04,000 --> 00:37:07,759
Speaker 2: top fifteen twenty players in the world, and players like

699
00:37:07,880 --> 00:37:11,080
Speaker 2: Zach Johnson Jim Furrea, Kluke Donald tumble down in the

700
00:37:11,080 --> 00:37:15,759
Speaker 2: world rankings. Are we in an era where distance is

701
00:37:15,800 --> 00:37:20,280
Speaker 2: becoming almost a prerequisite for greatness?

702
00:37:20,880 --> 00:37:23,560
Speaker 1: No, I don't think so. You know, it's always been

703
00:37:23,600 --> 00:37:25,120
Speaker 1: that way. If you go back and you look at

704
00:37:25,200 --> 00:37:28,759
Speaker 1: the players that have won the Varden Trophy more times

705
00:37:28,800 --> 00:37:31,719
Speaker 1: than not, they were, you know, costly long off the tee.

706
00:37:32,080 --> 00:37:35,600
Speaker 1: Having said that, now, cal Pete did win the Varden Trophy,

707
00:37:35,719 --> 00:37:39,080
Speaker 1: but Byron Nelson. You know, Jack would have won it

708
00:37:39,520 --> 00:37:41,720
Speaker 1: almost every year he played. He just didn't play enough events.

709
00:37:41,760 --> 00:37:48,279
Speaker 1: So I count Jack lowest scoring average, Ben Hogan. You

710
00:37:48,320 --> 00:37:52,520
Speaker 1: know Tiger Woods, you know, you go back, and distance

711
00:37:52,600 --> 00:37:55,399
Speaker 1: had something to do with it. There was an era,

712
00:37:56,239 --> 00:38:01,160
Speaker 1: you know that where we had dominant with short hitters.

713
00:38:01,360 --> 00:38:04,120
Speaker 1: You know, Nick Faldo wasn't a long hitter. He had

714
00:38:04,160 --> 00:38:09,200
Speaker 1: some dominant Certainly, Lee Trevino had some success. He wasn't

715
00:38:09,200 --> 00:38:12,239
Speaker 1: a long hitter. But Tom Watson was long, very very long.

716
00:38:13,320 --> 00:38:17,480
Speaker 1: Jack was long, Miller was long, Wisecoff was long, Palmer

717
00:38:17,600 --> 00:38:22,680
Speaker 1: was long. You know, Gary player was certainly not short,

718
00:38:22,840 --> 00:38:25,759
Speaker 1: you know, and he's still long. He's still long, right,

719
00:38:26,280 --> 00:38:28,560
Speaker 1: guy hits it further than I do, you know, he's uh,

720
00:38:28,840 --> 00:38:30,640
Speaker 1: you know, I watch him and I think, God, you

721
00:38:30,680 --> 00:38:33,799
Speaker 1: know that is you know a lot of people have

722
00:38:33,880 --> 00:38:35,920
Speaker 1: probably rolled their eyes at Gary over the years. You know,

723
00:38:36,040 --> 00:38:41,640
Speaker 1: his his incessant chirping about fitness. But wouldn't you all,

724
00:38:41,800 --> 00:38:43,480
Speaker 1: I mean, we would all love to be him when

725
00:38:43,480 --> 00:38:45,640
Speaker 1: we're eighty some odd years old. The guy just lit

726
00:38:45,719 --> 00:38:50,160
Speaker 1: up like a Roman candle. And when he comes on TV. Yeah,

727
00:38:50,200 --> 00:38:53,719
Speaker 1: I mean, every eighty year old man is entitled to

728
00:38:53,840 --> 00:38:57,719
Speaker 1: just drone on about something ridiculous that is is is

729
00:38:57,760 --> 00:39:00,560
Speaker 1: of interest to them. But but my god, and shouldn't

730
00:39:00,600 --> 00:39:02,680
Speaker 1: we all have that kind of passion at eighty plus

731
00:39:02,760 --> 00:39:04,480
Speaker 1: years of age? And he and his wife they just

732
00:39:04,520 --> 00:39:08,440
Speaker 1: celebrated their sixty first wedding anniversary. They met when they

733
00:39:08,440 --> 00:39:11,200
Speaker 1: were both teenagers. And I mean, the story's amazing. And

734
00:39:11,280 --> 00:39:14,359
Speaker 1: he's a I mean, look, he's eighty seven years old.

735
00:39:14,400 --> 00:39:16,360
Speaker 1: He's a good looking man. I mean, he looks like

736
00:39:16,400 --> 00:39:18,880
Speaker 1: he could be in he could be He's like George

737
00:39:18,920 --> 00:39:21,680
Speaker 1: Clooney of eighty year old men. He's just you know,

738
00:39:21,760 --> 00:39:24,400
Speaker 1: he looks like he could be a movie star. So

739
00:39:24,480 --> 00:39:27,320
Speaker 1: I have my marvel at Gary. Uh, you know, and

740
00:39:27,360 --> 00:39:29,799
Speaker 1: in this era we've had let's see. You know, Matt

741
00:39:29,880 --> 00:39:34,200
Speaker 1: Coocher tremendous success, not a long hitter, Jordan Speed, you know,

742
00:39:34,280 --> 00:39:36,600
Speaker 1: Jeorge Speth is he's.

743
00:39:36,480 --> 00:39:39,080
Speaker 2: Above average though he's in the top half of the

744
00:39:39,120 --> 00:39:41,719
Speaker 2: PGA Tour. What I'm saying is like, yeah, is are

745
00:39:41,719 --> 00:39:43,680
Speaker 2: we going to see a world number one that's not

746
00:39:44,000 --> 00:39:46,560
Speaker 2: in the top half of the PGA Tour and driving?

747
00:39:46,800 --> 00:39:49,920
Speaker 1: It's you know, we're in a I mean, it's gonna

748
00:39:49,920 --> 00:39:52,680
Speaker 1: be tough because there are so many good athletes. Now

749
00:39:52,760 --> 00:39:55,680
Speaker 1: it's it's it's you know, Luke Donald did it. You know,

750
00:39:55,719 --> 00:39:58,200
Speaker 1: he got to be number one, and Luke didn't hit

751
00:39:58,239 --> 00:40:02,400
Speaker 1: it long, and he didn't hit it particularly streight. But Luke, Luke,

752
00:40:02,760 --> 00:40:04,520
Speaker 1: you know, he had a phenomenal year that with a

753
00:40:04,640 --> 00:40:08,399
Speaker 1: year of desirons, No question, his irons were great. But

754
00:40:08,480 --> 00:40:12,520
Speaker 1: Luke is you know, we marveled at Ben Hogan his

755
00:40:12,560 --> 00:40:14,560
Speaker 1: ability to hit a golf ball, But Luke Donald is

756
00:40:14,560 --> 00:40:16,800
Speaker 1: Ben Hogan of the short game. You know, I mean,

757
00:40:17,239 --> 00:40:19,360
Speaker 1: in the same way we marveled Ben, we should be

758
00:40:19,360 --> 00:40:22,840
Speaker 1: marveling at Luke Donald and Steve Stricker. You know, the

759
00:40:22,880 --> 00:40:24,840
Speaker 1: way they chipped the ball, pitch the ball, hit bunker

760
00:40:24,840 --> 00:40:27,799
Speaker 1: shots and putt. You know, Luke Donald was able to

761
00:40:27,960 --> 00:40:32,680
Speaker 1: overcome disadvantages of not being long or straight. For crying

762
00:40:32,680 --> 00:40:34,279
Speaker 1: out loud that I mean, then you can't eve get

763
00:40:34,320 --> 00:40:36,560
Speaker 1: on tour one long or straight and he became a

764
00:40:36,600 --> 00:40:41,160
Speaker 1: number one player. Well, I love watching Luke Donald play

765
00:40:41,239 --> 00:40:41,600
Speaker 1: the game.

766
00:40:41,680 --> 00:40:46,080
Speaker 3: And we so we've talked about Faldo before and I'm curious.

767
00:40:46,120 --> 00:40:49,680
Speaker 3: You know, he's won six majors, six six would he

768
00:40:49,760 --> 00:40:53,120
Speaker 3: be able to win a major in today's Oh?

769
00:40:53,239 --> 00:40:56,280
Speaker 1: Yeah, absolutely. You know the things that made Nick great,

770
00:40:56,480 --> 00:40:59,000
Speaker 1: you know. I mean, look, Nick was playing against longer hitters,

771
00:40:59,000 --> 00:41:02,399
Speaker 1: Greg Norman. You know he schooled Norman. Norman was much

772
00:41:02,480 --> 00:41:06,520
Speaker 1: much longer than him. You know, he played against Nick Price.

773
00:41:06,600 --> 00:41:09,319
Speaker 1: Nick Price was only Ian Woosno, Ian Woos was really long.

774
00:41:09,560 --> 00:41:13,919
Speaker 2: So a question is what about the technology has completely changed?

775
00:41:13,960 --> 00:41:16,600
Speaker 2: The ball doesn't spend as much. Could that have a factor?

776
00:41:18,120 --> 00:41:20,640
Speaker 1: Well, you know, you say it doesn't spend. I mean,

777
00:41:21,000 --> 00:41:23,160
Speaker 1: you know, the average driving distance is two hundred and

778
00:41:23,239 --> 00:41:26,879
Speaker 1: ninety plus yards. You know, guys are not hitting long

779
00:41:26,880 --> 00:41:29,040
Speaker 1: clubs into greens anymore. Doesn't spin as much, but it

780
00:41:29,160 --> 00:41:33,600
Speaker 1: lands at a much steeper angle. You know, distance is

781
00:41:33,640 --> 00:41:35,920
Speaker 1: always going to be a huge advantage. It always has

782
00:41:36,000 --> 00:41:37,520
Speaker 1: been it always. You start to look at the players

783
00:41:37,560 --> 00:41:40,080
Speaker 1: that have dominated, you know, top ten of all time.

784
00:41:40,120 --> 00:41:42,279
Speaker 1: There's not a short hitter in there, you know, I

785
00:41:42,280 --> 00:41:46,960
Speaker 1: mean there's not. I mean Bobby Jones long, Tiger Woods long,

786
00:41:47,120 --> 00:41:50,880
Speaker 1: crazy long, Nicholas crazy long, Byron Nelson, you know, he

787
00:41:51,000 --> 00:41:54,000
Speaker 1: wasn't he wasn't Sam Sneed long, but he was long.

788
00:41:55,200 --> 00:41:57,640
Speaker 1: Walter Hagen. You know, you go down the list and

789
00:41:57,680 --> 00:42:00,479
Speaker 1: you'd get to Gene Saracen. But if you ever watched

790
00:42:00,520 --> 00:42:02,239
Speaker 1: Geene saras and hit a golf well, no, he wasn't

791
00:42:02,239 --> 00:42:07,000
Speaker 1: the longest, but he wasn't short. You know, Palmer long.

792
00:42:07,560 --> 00:42:12,480
Speaker 1: You know, distance has always dominated, and the hardest thing

793
00:42:12,480 --> 00:42:13,799
Speaker 1: to do in golf is hit it long and straight.

794
00:42:13,840 --> 00:42:15,560
Speaker 1: So that's the thing that interests me the most. So

795
00:42:15,840 --> 00:42:19,680
Speaker 1: I'm always on the lookout for any any player, any method,

796
00:42:19,760 --> 00:42:23,879
Speaker 1: any idea that demonstrates an ability to hit the ball

797
00:42:23,960 --> 00:42:26,759
Speaker 1: long and straight. That's what keeps me up at night,

798
00:42:26,880 --> 00:42:29,520
Speaker 1: you know, is who hits it the furthest and who

799
00:42:29,560 --> 00:42:30,440
Speaker 1: hits it the straightest.

800
00:42:30,640 --> 00:42:33,920
Speaker 2: So who's your favorite player or like, who are you

801
00:42:34,040 --> 00:42:37,640
Speaker 2: most bullish on of a player that's outside the top

802
00:42:37,920 --> 00:42:39,880
Speaker 2: fifty in the world rankings right now, if you had

803
00:42:39,920 --> 00:42:42,239
Speaker 2: to pick one, Oh, I don't know.

804
00:42:43,080 --> 00:42:46,520
Speaker 1: Dylan, for Telly is amazing. You know, what he's been

805
00:42:46,560 --> 00:42:49,400
Speaker 1: able to do in the game so quickly certainly gets

806
00:42:49,400 --> 00:42:53,880
Speaker 1: my attention. There's no question about that. You know. He

807
00:42:53,920 --> 00:42:56,239
Speaker 1: pops up and you're like, oh geez, this kid is

808
00:42:56,400 --> 00:43:02,120
Speaker 1: you know, consistently winning. This The kid that's number one

809
00:43:02,160 --> 00:43:05,560
Speaker 1: in the world right now in the amateur rankings, Neeman Newman.

810
00:43:05,800 --> 00:43:08,400
Speaker 2: I think he just ran He's hat sixty three in

811
00:43:08,520 --> 00:43:12,399
Speaker 2: the LA the Latin America right right.

812
00:43:12,480 --> 00:43:17,440
Speaker 1: I mean, you know, he's from Chile. You know, I'm amazed.

813
00:43:17,480 --> 00:43:19,080
Speaker 1: I think one of the most amazing you know, we're

814
00:43:19,120 --> 00:43:21,440
Speaker 1: talking about men's golf, but one of the most amazing

815
00:43:21,480 --> 00:43:24,360
Speaker 1: things in the last fifteen years of golf is the

816
00:43:24,440 --> 00:43:26,880
Speaker 1: number of good players to come from South Korea and

817
00:43:27,000 --> 00:43:29,560
Speaker 1: good good golf swings. I was talking to a coach

818
00:43:29,560 --> 00:43:32,960
Speaker 1: from Korea yesterday and I, you know, I asked him

819
00:43:32,960 --> 00:43:34,560
Speaker 1: that question because I spent a lot of time thinking

820
00:43:34,600 --> 00:43:39,480
Speaker 1: about that question, and there are no teaching academies in Korea.

821
00:43:39,640 --> 00:43:42,200
Speaker 1: There's really no there's no teaching so it's like a

822
00:43:42,280 --> 00:43:45,960
Speaker 1: hold on a second what's going on here. And you know,

823
00:43:46,040 --> 00:43:48,560
Speaker 1: golf is a pastime over there. Kids have clubs in

824
00:43:48,600 --> 00:43:50,840
Speaker 1: their hands by the time they're four, and they're out swinging,

825
00:43:51,320 --> 00:43:54,359
Speaker 1: you know, on the playgrounds, and you know they're they're

826
00:43:54,360 --> 00:43:57,560
Speaker 1: coming to these the game early when your ability to

827
00:43:57,600 --> 00:44:03,440
Speaker 1: imitate is you know, at its peak, and they you know,

828
00:44:03,440 --> 00:44:05,680
Speaker 1: they bring a work ethic to the game. But there's

829
00:44:05,719 --> 00:44:07,879
Speaker 1: not a lot of instruction in South Korea. And yet

830
00:44:07,960 --> 00:44:10,480
Speaker 1: we see great swing after great swing because they're going

831
00:44:10,520 --> 00:44:12,520
Speaker 1: on YouTube, they're watching and they're imitating.

832
00:44:12,960 --> 00:44:16,120
Speaker 3: That's amazing. That speaks to your homegrown you know.

833
00:44:16,400 --> 00:44:18,399
Speaker 1: You know who's the best swing of golf right now?

834
00:44:19,280 --> 00:44:22,400
Speaker 1: Adam Scott. Yeah, okay, you know Adam Scott's teacher is

835
00:44:23,239 --> 00:44:26,960
Speaker 1: Adam Scott. Who's the greatest swing of all time? Sam Sneat.

836
00:44:27,000 --> 00:44:30,240
Speaker 1: You know who Sam Sneed's teacher was, Sam Snead. Ben Hogan.

837
00:44:30,320 --> 00:44:33,759
Speaker 1: You know who Ben Hogan's teacher was, Ben Hogan. So

838
00:44:35,000 --> 00:44:39,800
Speaker 1: you know, now, Tiger and Jack were taught by teachers.

839
00:44:40,000 --> 00:44:43,080
Speaker 1: I'm not saying that teachers don't have their place. They do.

840
00:44:43,200 --> 00:44:46,560
Speaker 1: I I'm not I'm not at all insinuation, and I'm

841
00:44:46,600 --> 00:44:49,600
Speaker 1: just saying that you are quite capable on your own

842
00:44:49,640 --> 00:44:53,799
Speaker 1: of creating a great move, you know, and if you're

843
00:44:53,880 --> 00:45:00,400
Speaker 1: lucky enough to find a good instructor, then well fortunate.

844
00:45:00,840 --> 00:45:06,719
Speaker 1: You're fortunate because there are far more tragedies and instruction

845
00:45:07,560 --> 00:45:10,120
Speaker 1: at the professional rank than there is successes.

846
00:45:11,360 --> 00:45:15,200
Speaker 2: So Tiger recently announced he's, you know, he's splitting with

847
00:45:15,280 --> 00:45:19,560
Speaker 2: Como and he's kind of going with just himself. Where's

848
00:45:19,600 --> 00:45:23,040
Speaker 2: Tiger going to end the year ranked in the world rankings.

849
00:45:23,520 --> 00:45:30,040
Speaker 1: That's a great question. Probably close to the top fifty,

850
00:45:30,440 --> 00:45:34,680
Speaker 1: you know, which is you know, I didn't think that

851
00:45:34,760 --> 00:45:36,839
Speaker 1: Tiger would come back with a golf swing like that.

852
00:45:37,160 --> 00:45:40,920
Speaker 1: I didn't think he'd come back with speed like that. So,

853
00:45:41,280 --> 00:45:44,080
Speaker 1: you know, he and I I, you know, I was

854
00:45:44,080 --> 00:45:46,239
Speaker 1: asked about it obviously a lot, and I said, you know,

855
00:45:46,239 --> 00:45:48,800
Speaker 1: I hope I'm wrong, and I'm happy to be wrong.

856
00:45:49,400 --> 00:45:51,279
Speaker 1: You know, he'll still have to get over and find

857
00:45:51,280 --> 00:45:53,839
Speaker 1: a way around his short game woes, because those are

858
00:45:54,080 --> 00:45:57,160
Speaker 1: not gone by any stretch of the imagination. But golf

859
00:45:57,160 --> 00:46:00,000
Speaker 1: swing wise, I think, you know, he's got a good enough,

860
00:46:01,920 --> 00:46:04,480
Speaker 1: good enough golf swing and enough speed to go out

861
00:46:04,480 --> 00:46:05,240
Speaker 1: there and contend.

862
00:46:05,800 --> 00:46:08,480
Speaker 2: Something we were talking about last night with short game

863
00:46:08,960 --> 00:46:15,480
Speaker 2: is how long rough around the greens we were saying,

864
00:46:15,960 --> 00:46:19,200
Speaker 2: compared to short grass around the greens actually is.

865
00:46:19,120 --> 00:46:22,320
Speaker 1: Good for Oh yeah, absolutely. If you've got some wiggle

866
00:46:22,360 --> 00:46:25,359
Speaker 1: room underneath the ball, then you don't have to be

867
00:46:25,400 --> 00:46:29,839
Speaker 1: so precise and it you know, you can move it up,

868
00:46:29,880 --> 00:46:31,640
Speaker 1: you can move it back. You've got wiggle room under

869
00:46:31,640 --> 00:46:33,319
Speaker 1: the ball. But when you've got a tight lie and

870
00:46:33,360 --> 00:46:36,560
Speaker 1: it's sort of a straightforward pitch shot, you know, the

871
00:46:36,640 --> 00:46:41,719
Speaker 1: need to be precise is there. And when you've hit

872
00:46:41,760 --> 00:46:44,200
Speaker 1: as many bad chips as we've seen Tiger Woods hit

873
00:46:44,200 --> 00:46:46,960
Speaker 1: over the last four or five years, you think about it.

874
00:46:48,280 --> 00:46:51,480
Speaker 1: Their foremost in our mind. I promise you, they're foremost

875
00:46:51,480 --> 00:46:54,160
Speaker 1: in his right and he has to chisel through a

876
00:46:54,200 --> 00:46:57,960
Speaker 1: wall of doubt before every single chip shot he hits.

877
00:46:58,840 --> 00:47:02,799
Speaker 1: Everyone and his competitors are walking up to a chip

878
00:47:02,800 --> 00:47:06,399
Speaker 1: shot with you know, blood in their eyes. You know

879
00:47:06,600 --> 00:47:11,000
Speaker 1: they're they're they're trying to hold it and and that's

880
00:47:11,040 --> 00:47:13,760
Speaker 1: that's the difference. And people, you know, every time Tiger

881
00:47:13,880 --> 00:47:16,359
Speaker 1: hits a good chip, I'll get a tweet from somebody saying,

882
00:47:16,360 --> 00:47:18,640
Speaker 1: see he doesn't have the yips, or actually I'll get

883
00:47:18,640 --> 00:47:22,640
Speaker 1: a hundred, you know, or a thousand and uh, you know,

884
00:47:22,800 --> 00:47:27,120
Speaker 1: you idiot, and and and then and then and then

885
00:47:27,400 --> 00:47:31,240
Speaker 1: two three holes later when he chunks one, my Twitter

886
00:47:31,280 --> 00:47:35,160
Speaker 1: feed will go silent. You know, It's like I'm like, yeah,

887
00:47:35,239 --> 00:47:38,120
Speaker 1: you know, where are you chirpers now? Uh? And I

888
00:47:38,200 --> 00:47:41,680
Speaker 1: you know, look, I hope he figures it out, but

889
00:47:41,960 --> 00:47:44,880
Speaker 1: I've never seen anybody figure the chippy yips out. There

890
00:47:44,880 --> 00:47:46,560
Speaker 1: was a player from Australia by the name of Brett

891
00:47:46,560 --> 00:47:49,560
Speaker 1: Ogle who was a hell of a player, won very

892
00:47:49,640 --> 00:47:51,839
Speaker 1: quickly on the PGA Tour Pebble Beach in the early

893
00:47:51,960 --> 00:47:56,400
Speaker 1: nineties and long and straight and just you know at everything.

894
00:47:56,440 --> 00:47:59,400
Speaker 1: You know, he was abrasive in the right ways. You

895
00:47:59,400 --> 00:48:03,279
Speaker 1: know how he got the chippy nips and he was

896
00:48:03,320 --> 00:48:06,560
Speaker 1: off the tour and gone and in a year. I've

897
00:48:06,600 --> 00:48:11,120
Speaker 1: never seen anybody recover from them. So you know, Tiger

898
00:48:11,200 --> 00:48:14,760
Speaker 1: took two chips to get on the green seven times

899
00:48:14,800 --> 00:48:17,440
Speaker 1: at the Hero seven times, it took him two chips

900
00:48:17,440 --> 00:48:20,640
Speaker 1: to green it. If there had been shot link that week,

901
00:48:20,680 --> 00:48:23,319
Speaker 1: he would have been dead last. In the statistic that

902
00:48:23,400 --> 00:48:27,120
Speaker 1: I look at is it's arg it's how close you chip.

903
00:48:28,040 --> 00:48:30,120
Speaker 1: You know, when you hit a chip shot on average,

904
00:48:30,120 --> 00:48:31,759
Speaker 1: how close does it finish next to the hole. That

905
00:48:31,840 --> 00:48:36,160
Speaker 1: is the truest measure of who's the best chipper. And

906
00:48:36,280 --> 00:48:39,400
Speaker 1: every year, you know, I mean very rarely where you

907
00:48:39,440 --> 00:48:42,799
Speaker 1: see somebody get below six feet, that person will lead

908
00:48:43,040 --> 00:48:47,080
Speaker 1: all around. That's that's Steve Stricker, That's that's who does that.

909
00:48:47,440 --> 00:48:50,280
Speaker 1: But the bottom will be around eight feet on average.

910
00:48:51,239 --> 00:48:53,920
Speaker 1: They're going to chip at a feet. A huge percentage

911
00:48:53,920 --> 00:48:56,239
Speaker 1: difference between how many six footers you make and how

912
00:48:56,239 --> 00:49:00,000
Speaker 1: many eight footers you make. And you know, the last

913
00:49:00,400 --> 00:49:02,000
Speaker 1: the last top ten the Tiger had on the tour

914
00:49:02,120 --> 00:49:06,960
Speaker 1: was Wyndham. Was that twenty fifteen and he finished tenth.

915
00:49:07,600 --> 00:49:11,040
Speaker 1: He averaged thirteen feet seven inches on his chip shots

916
00:49:11,040 --> 00:49:13,560
Speaker 1: that week to the whole thirteen feet last on the

917
00:49:13,600 --> 00:49:18,160
Speaker 1: tour is eight feet, so best is six feet, so

918
00:49:18,800 --> 00:49:21,520
Speaker 1: twice as bad as the best, considerably worse than the worst.

919
00:49:22,560 --> 00:49:25,640
Speaker 1: You know that a big difference between putting an a

920
00:49:25,719 --> 00:49:27,640
Speaker 1: footer and a thirteen footer percentage wise.

921
00:49:28,440 --> 00:49:33,160
Speaker 2: So the Aaron Hills last year got maligned by yeah

922
00:49:33,160 --> 00:49:35,720
Speaker 2: because of scoring, but one of the things I loved

923
00:49:35,760 --> 00:49:37,840
Speaker 2: about it was all the short grass around the greens,

924
00:49:37,920 --> 00:49:41,400
Speaker 2: and like I think the round that really showcased that

925
00:49:41,520 --> 00:49:44,120
Speaker 2: was Patrick Reid's third round where he hit I think

926
00:49:44,120 --> 00:49:48,520
Speaker 2: eleven greens and shot sixty five right, and he continually

927
00:49:48,560 --> 00:49:51,120
Speaker 2: fired at flags and he short sighted himself, but he

928
00:49:52,080 --> 00:49:54,759
Speaker 2: relied on what he's best at. Yeah, do you think

929
00:49:54,880 --> 00:49:58,120
Speaker 2: more tour setups should have more short grass around?

930
00:49:58,320 --> 00:50:00,200
Speaker 1: I don't. I don't. You know, Look, we already have

931
00:50:00,239 --> 00:50:02,880
Speaker 1: that major is called Augusta National, and we kind of

932
00:50:02,880 --> 00:50:06,240
Speaker 1: have it at the Open Championship. What I love about

933
00:50:06,239 --> 00:50:08,440
Speaker 1: the Open or the US Open, what I used to

934
00:50:08,440 --> 00:50:13,520
Speaker 1: love about it was the draconian setups, penal, you know, intimidating.

935
00:50:14,560 --> 00:50:16,799
Speaker 1: And I mean this, I don't mean any disrespect. I

936
00:50:16,840 --> 00:50:19,239
Speaker 1: was a player once. I was the person bitching about

937
00:50:19,280 --> 00:50:22,440
Speaker 1: course setups. But it always occurred to me that they

938
00:50:22,440 --> 00:50:25,879
Speaker 1: shouldn't listen to me, that I'm just blowing steam off

939
00:50:26,360 --> 00:50:28,120
Speaker 1: the last people used to be listening to. Of course

940
00:50:28,160 --> 00:50:32,360
Speaker 1: set up the tour players, you know, they're always going

941
00:50:32,400 --> 00:50:37,120
Speaker 1: to argue for graduated, rough, wider fair ways, however they

942
00:50:37,120 --> 00:50:39,360
Speaker 1: want to do it. Someone's going to do to the player.

943
00:50:39,400 --> 00:50:42,520
Speaker 1: They will be arguing about their strength, what they like,

944
00:50:42,600 --> 00:50:44,759
Speaker 1: what they want to see, what they think will bring

945
00:50:44,800 --> 00:50:46,399
Speaker 1: out the best in them. None of them are going

946
00:50:46,480 --> 00:50:49,440
Speaker 1: to argue from an equitable standpoint. They're going to be

947
00:50:49,560 --> 00:50:52,040
Speaker 1: arguing from whatever it is that they think brings out

948
00:50:52,080 --> 00:50:54,920
Speaker 1: the best in them. Now, I've listened to arguments about

949
00:50:55,239 --> 00:50:57,840
Speaker 1: mowing the grass around the green. It gives them more shots,

950
00:50:57,920 --> 00:51:00,920
Speaker 1: it's more interesting. It's not just the flop shot. And

951
00:51:00,960 --> 00:51:03,359
Speaker 1: that's true, but the name of the game, at least

952
00:51:03,400 --> 00:51:05,840
Speaker 1: as I see it. Look, we already have Augusta National,

953
00:51:05,840 --> 00:51:07,960
Speaker 1: and Augusta is meant to bring out the artist in

954
00:51:08,040 --> 00:51:11,560
Speaker 1: a golfer, make them create shots, bring out the ingenuity

955
00:51:11,600 --> 00:51:15,840
Speaker 1: around the greens. It's bold. You're meant to slay the

956
00:51:15,920 --> 00:51:20,400
Speaker 1: dragon there, right, But at the US Open, the dragon

957
00:51:20,440 --> 00:51:22,800
Speaker 1: is supposed to slay you. You know, you're supposed to

958
00:51:22,840 --> 00:51:25,360
Speaker 1: be intimidated by the setup. If you miss the fairway,

959
00:51:25,360 --> 00:51:26,840
Speaker 1: I don't care. If you miss it by a foot,

960
00:51:27,160 --> 00:51:29,920
Speaker 1: you pay a penalty for it. If you miss the green,

961
00:51:30,480 --> 00:51:33,719
Speaker 1: I don't care. You know about fairness. I'm talking about

962
00:51:33,760 --> 00:51:35,480
Speaker 1: if if you miss the green, your target is hitting

963
00:51:35,520 --> 00:51:38,840
Speaker 1: the green. If you miss the green, I'm all for

964
00:51:39,560 --> 00:51:42,200
Speaker 1: nasty rough around the green, all for it. I want

965
00:51:42,239 --> 00:51:45,040
Speaker 1: to see a guy to chip. I want to see

966
00:51:45,080 --> 00:51:47,600
Speaker 1: it because that's what I want to see. At that

967
00:51:47,600 --> 00:51:52,400
Speaker 1: major championship, flare at augusta intimidation at the US Open,

968
00:51:52,640 --> 00:51:57,480
Speaker 1: mother nature at the Open, and then the elements. Unfortunately,

969
00:51:57,520 --> 00:51:59,759
Speaker 1: with the PGA Championship being played in the heat of

970
00:51:59,800 --> 00:52:03,759
Speaker 1: the summer, they're a slave to whatever mother nature will

971
00:52:03,800 --> 00:52:05,240
Speaker 1: allow them to do with a golf course.

972
00:52:05,320 --> 00:52:06,399
Speaker 2: This year is gonna be tough.

973
00:52:06,760 --> 00:52:10,480
Speaker 1: Uh yeah, I mean that's gonna be one hundred and

974
00:52:10,480 --> 00:52:13,799
Speaker 1: one hundred percent humidity. It's just gonna be nasty, and

975
00:52:13,880 --> 00:52:16,600
Speaker 1: so there. You know, I don't necessarily think you should

976
00:52:16,640 --> 00:52:18,960
Speaker 1: be punishing people to the extent that you do at

977
00:52:19,000 --> 00:52:22,239
Speaker 1: the US Open, because you know, the physical nature of

978
00:52:22,280 --> 00:52:24,799
Speaker 1: it is punishing enough. Uh So they have to keep

979
00:52:24,800 --> 00:52:30,200
Speaker 1: the golf course softer and understandably so. But I you

980
00:52:30,200 --> 00:52:35,000
Speaker 1: know who won wing Foot nineteen seventy four, Heller when

981
00:52:35,120 --> 00:52:37,920
Speaker 1: he shot seven over par. Heller, when proved to be

982
00:52:37,960 --> 00:52:40,680
Speaker 1: an extraordinary player. He won the three more you know,

983
00:52:40,719 --> 00:52:42,640
Speaker 1: he won two more Opens, he won three US Open.

984
00:52:44,160 --> 00:52:46,960
Speaker 1: You know, I love to see. You know, we're all

985
00:52:46,960 --> 00:52:49,440
Speaker 1: about strokes gained, right, Strokes gain is a measure of

986
00:52:49,480 --> 00:52:54,040
Speaker 1: how you do against everybody else. Sure, okay, I get

987
00:52:54,040 --> 00:52:57,479
Speaker 1: that metric, I use it, but I always go back

988
00:52:57,520 --> 00:53:00,200
Speaker 1: to did you hit the fairway or did you not?

989
00:53:00,360 --> 00:53:01,799
Speaker 1: Did you hit the green or did you not? Because

990
00:53:01,880 --> 00:53:05,120
Speaker 1: nobody stands on the tee with very few exceptions and goes, eh,

991
00:53:05,160 --> 00:53:08,640
Speaker 1: I'm better off I missed this fairway. Yeah, I mean,

992
00:53:08,680 --> 00:53:12,560
Speaker 1: I'm okay if I missed this fairway. You're aiming for

993
00:53:12,600 --> 00:53:14,120
Speaker 1: the fairway. Did you hit it or did you not?

994
00:53:14,400 --> 00:53:17,080
Speaker 1: Nobody stands in the fairway and goes, I'm okay if

995
00:53:17,080 --> 00:53:19,560
Speaker 1: I missed this green or you're not. You're trying to

996
00:53:19,600 --> 00:53:21,759
Speaker 1: hit the green? Did you hit it or did you not?

997
00:53:22,960 --> 00:53:26,720
Speaker 1: That that you know? People? Will you know this? Whole

998
00:53:26,800 --> 00:53:29,200
Speaker 1: strokes gain obsessive. I'm a big fan of Mark Brody

999
00:53:29,200 --> 00:53:30,279
Speaker 1: and I use it and I look at it and

1000
00:53:30,280 --> 00:53:34,600
Speaker 1: it's interesting, but I still look at can you hit

1001
00:53:34,640 --> 00:53:37,000
Speaker 1: the fairway? Can you hit the green? And the US

1002
00:53:37,080 --> 00:53:40,439
Speaker 1: Open was that? And if it went back to it,

1003
00:53:41,080 --> 00:53:44,520
Speaker 1: I would be standing on top of my car applauding

1004
00:53:44,560 --> 00:53:51,480
Speaker 1: them because I want to see a tour player agitated, angry,

1005
00:53:51,880 --> 00:53:55,320
Speaker 1: pissed off about setup, and then I want to see

1006
00:53:55,719 --> 00:53:58,440
Speaker 1: who it is that hits the shots. Did you hit

1007
00:53:58,480 --> 00:54:01,160
Speaker 1: them or did you not? Could you hit them? That's

1008
00:54:01,239 --> 00:54:03,840
Speaker 1: cool to me, you know, that is the game really

1009
00:54:03,880 --> 00:54:07,520
Speaker 1: should be about control. It should be, and if it

1010
00:54:07,520 --> 00:54:10,600
Speaker 1: were about control, tour players that week would be forced

1011
00:54:10,640 --> 00:54:13,520
Speaker 1: to use a ball that spins more. They'd consider going

1012
00:54:13,520 --> 00:54:16,480
Speaker 1: to a driver with less MOI. They would think about

1013
00:54:16,480 --> 00:54:18,880
Speaker 1: all these things they'd be forced to because they're like, well,

1014
00:54:18,920 --> 00:54:20,719
Speaker 1: wait a minute, I don't want to hit a ball

1015
00:54:20,719 --> 00:54:23,600
Speaker 1: that's flying straight up in the air with no spin

1016
00:54:23,719 --> 00:54:25,600
Speaker 1: on it. You don't have as much control over it.

1017
00:54:26,640 --> 00:54:29,880
Speaker 1: If I miss this fairly, I'm screwed, even if I

1018
00:54:29,880 --> 00:54:31,480
Speaker 1: miss it by a foot. So heit I want to

1019
00:54:31,480 --> 00:54:33,560
Speaker 1: spin this ball more. I want to cut it more,

1020
00:54:33,560 --> 00:54:36,239
Speaker 1: I want to draw it more. So it would make

1021
00:54:36,280 --> 00:54:40,200
Speaker 1: them reconsider their bad configuration and their shot selection.

1022
00:54:40,600 --> 00:54:42,560
Speaker 3: I would love to see that. I really I want

1023
00:54:42,560 --> 00:54:43,959
Speaker 3: to see carnage at the US Open.

1024
00:54:44,160 --> 00:54:45,080
Speaker 1: Yes, I do.

1025
00:54:45,480 --> 00:54:49,839
Speaker 2: I think it's something you speak of. I'm a big

1026
00:54:49,880 --> 00:54:54,399
Speaker 2: proponent of WITH. Yeah, I'm an architecture guy. Oh yeah,

1027
00:54:54,440 --> 00:54:57,920
Speaker 2: I'm a nut, But I'm a big proponent of WITH.

1028
00:54:58,280 --> 00:55:00,200
Speaker 2: But also like one of the things I love about

1029
00:55:00,239 --> 00:55:05,279
Speaker 2: golf courses inside the golf courses, variety. But speaking what

1030
00:55:05,800 --> 00:55:08,839
Speaker 2: you talked about was variety among setups. So I had

1031
00:55:08,840 --> 00:55:12,399
Speaker 2: Bill Kooran a couple of months ago and he we

1032
00:55:12,640 --> 00:55:15,680
Speaker 2: started talking about Trenny Forrest and he said that he

1033
00:55:15,760 --> 00:55:19,000
Speaker 2: wanted it. The way he wants to test tour players,

1034
00:55:19,040 --> 00:55:21,839
Speaker 2: and he thinks you should test tour players is by

1035
00:55:21,880 --> 00:55:26,000
Speaker 2: making courses shorter and wider and forcing them to pick

1036
00:55:26,040 --> 00:55:29,480
Speaker 2: a line and hit it at a certain distance. What

1037
00:55:29,520 --> 00:55:31,280
Speaker 2: do you think about shorter and wider?

1038
00:55:31,680 --> 00:55:33,880
Speaker 1: I love it, you know, I you know this is

1039
00:55:34,160 --> 00:55:37,280
Speaker 1: I do love variety, and I love Bill Korkrinshaw golf courses,

1040
00:55:37,280 --> 00:55:41,480
Speaker 1: and when I play them, that thought is you can

1041
00:55:41,520 --> 00:55:43,479
Speaker 1: feel it. You know, when you play the golf course,

1042
00:55:43,520 --> 00:55:46,200
Speaker 1: you know you'll drive it down, be right next to

1043
00:55:46,239 --> 00:55:47,960
Speaker 1: a green. But if you don't have the right angle,

1044
00:55:49,080 --> 00:55:52,480
Speaker 1: you've got some awkward, inconvenient ridge to get over, and

1045
00:55:52,880 --> 00:55:54,560
Speaker 1: you know you could spit on the green and you

1046
00:55:54,600 --> 00:55:56,520
Speaker 1: can't chip it on the green because you're in a

1047
00:55:56,520 --> 00:56:00,200
Speaker 1: bad spot. So golf is meant to be fun. With

1048
00:56:00,239 --> 00:56:02,520
Speaker 1: the exception of the US Open one week of year,

1049
00:56:02,560 --> 00:56:06,680
Speaker 1: it's not meant to be fun. Augusta's fun. The Open

1050
00:56:06,800 --> 00:56:09,360
Speaker 1: is fun. Okay, the PGA, because you're battling the elements

1051
00:56:09,360 --> 00:56:11,839
Speaker 1: may not be so fun. But but golf is meant

1052
00:56:11,880 --> 00:56:14,200
Speaker 1: to be fun and Krins, Shaw and Corp get that.

1053
00:56:14,760 --> 00:56:21,759
Speaker 1: You know that the the the penal setups. Uh that

1054
00:56:21,880 --> 00:56:24,239
Speaker 1: I love at the US Open. I hate everywhere else.

1055
00:56:24,840 --> 00:56:26,600
Speaker 1: You know, I don't want to play golf courses that

1056
00:56:26,640 --> 00:56:30,839
Speaker 1: are that are you know, you either hit it here

1057
00:56:30,880 --> 00:56:33,320
Speaker 1: or you don't, you know, I mean, I like the

1058
00:56:33,360 --> 00:56:35,640
Speaker 1: recovery shot, you know. I like the ability to recover,

1059
00:56:36,000 --> 00:56:39,000
Speaker 1: and I like the ability to bombs away and get

1060
00:56:39,040 --> 00:56:41,960
Speaker 1: down there and realize, well, I did hit the fairway,

1061
00:56:42,000 --> 00:56:43,960
Speaker 1: but I'd be way better off I hit it over there.

1062
00:56:44,000 --> 00:56:47,640
Speaker 1: That's strategic, it's interesting, it's you know, my favorite course

1063
00:56:47,680 --> 00:56:49,560
Speaker 1: in the world is a course in San Antonio by

1064
00:56:49,600 --> 00:56:51,600
Speaker 1: the name of Oak Hills Country Club. It was designed

1065
00:56:51,600 --> 00:56:55,000
Speaker 1: by Tilling Hast. Its integrity has never really been touched.

1066
00:56:55,600 --> 00:56:58,040
Speaker 1: It's been spruced up time or two by Weisskoff and J.

1067
00:56:58,239 --> 00:57:02,120
Speaker 1: Morrish and whatnot, but it's the same way. It's only

1068
00:57:02,640 --> 00:57:05,680
Speaker 1: seven thousand yards long. But every day I finished it,

1069
00:57:05,719 --> 00:57:08,920
Speaker 1: I think, you know, it was such an interesting round.

1070
00:57:09,160 --> 00:57:11,120
Speaker 1: You know, I had a bad lie here because I

1071
00:57:11,160 --> 00:57:12,759
Speaker 1: drove in the wrong side of the fairway. I had

1072
00:57:12,800 --> 00:57:14,839
Speaker 1: a three iron from a hanging lie there and nine

1073
00:57:14,880 --> 00:57:18,440
Speaker 1: iron from an uphill side hill, lie little bitty greens

1074
00:57:19,040 --> 00:57:23,320
Speaker 1: and it peaks your curiosity. Crenshaw Corps do that. The

1075
00:57:23,360 --> 00:57:26,400
Speaker 1: Trinity Fours golf Course in Dallas, by all accounts, is amazing.

1076
00:57:26,480 --> 00:57:29,400
Speaker 1: I think the field will be much much better there.

1077
00:57:29,600 --> 00:57:32,480
Speaker 1: I think players will be intrigued by that. That course.

1078
00:57:32,920 --> 00:57:37,480
Speaker 2: I spent like three days just walking around studying the course.

1079
00:57:38,800 --> 00:57:42,280
Speaker 2: There's a couple of spots where I mean there. It's

1080
00:57:42,320 --> 00:57:45,840
Speaker 2: going to be very interesting to see the comments that

1081
00:57:45,920 --> 00:57:49,240
Speaker 2: come from it. Yeah, it's going to rub some people

1082
00:57:49,320 --> 00:57:49,919
Speaker 2: the wrong way.

1083
00:57:50,080 --> 00:57:54,640
Speaker 1: Yeah, absolutely. And you know Gil hans redid draw and

1084
00:57:54,720 --> 00:57:57,440
Speaker 1: the first hole he made it. You know, it's a

1085
00:57:57,480 --> 00:58:01,240
Speaker 1: par five, but if you if you're second shot drifts

1086
00:58:01,440 --> 00:58:04,080
Speaker 1: right of center, it'll catch the slope and it'll go

1087
00:58:04,120 --> 00:58:07,000
Speaker 1: in the water. And I think JB. Holmes was leading

1088
00:58:07,040 --> 00:58:09,920
Speaker 1: there after two rounds and he drove it and he

1089
00:58:09,920 --> 00:58:12,560
Speaker 1: had a six iron to the green if memory serves

1090
00:58:12,560 --> 00:58:15,040
Speaker 1: me correctly, and his six iron landed from the left

1091
00:58:15,040 --> 00:58:17,080
Speaker 1: side of the fairway I believe, hit the sort of

1092
00:58:17,080 --> 00:58:19,000
Speaker 1: the right side of the green and it went the water.

1093
00:58:19,840 --> 00:58:21,800
Speaker 1: And he was angry and he thinking, I think he

1094
00:58:21,840 --> 00:58:23,760
Speaker 1: had some critical things to say. I think it was JB.

1095
00:58:23,840 --> 00:58:26,919
Speaker 1: Holmes and Gil Hans was up on the set that night,

1096
00:58:27,240 --> 00:58:31,600
Speaker 1: and you know I could tell that it. I could

1097
00:58:31,600 --> 00:58:33,320
Speaker 1: tell it bothered him a little bit. You know, he's

1098
00:58:33,360 --> 00:58:36,120
Speaker 1: getting and I and I was thinking, well, I mean

1099
00:58:36,120 --> 00:58:38,000
Speaker 1: I've been there. I've been the tour player and you think,

1100
00:58:38,400 --> 00:58:40,560
Speaker 1: no matter what, when you hit the shot and it

1101
00:58:40,560 --> 00:58:42,080
Speaker 1: doesn't turn out the way you want, you were like,

1102
00:58:42,120 --> 00:58:46,960
Speaker 1: what idiot designed this golf course? And if you philosophically

1103
00:58:47,000 --> 00:58:50,080
Speaker 1: look at it, though it's a it's a par five,

1104
00:58:51,000 --> 00:58:54,160
Speaker 1: there has to be some risk reward. You know, if

1105
00:58:54,200 --> 00:58:57,280
Speaker 1: you get it going right at thirteen at augusta a

1106
00:58:57,320 --> 00:58:59,240
Speaker 1: little bit with your second shot, it goes in the water,

1107
00:58:59,240 --> 00:59:01,640
Speaker 1: It come up shore, roll in the water. You know,

1108
00:59:01,680 --> 00:59:04,160
Speaker 1: if you don't quite catch it perfect at fifteen, it'll

1109
00:59:04,240 --> 00:59:06,000
Speaker 1: hit in the front third and come back in the water.

1110
00:59:06,640 --> 00:59:10,240
Speaker 1: Those are all design elements that are intended to intimidate.

1111
00:59:11,240 --> 00:59:15,640
Speaker 1: They're intended to make you create and reward great creativity

1112
00:59:15,680 --> 00:59:19,360
Speaker 1: and boldness. And you shouldn't get a pass with a

1113
00:59:19,400 --> 00:59:22,720
Speaker 1: shot that's just not quite right. With a six iron

1114
00:59:22,800 --> 00:59:26,760
Speaker 1: to a par five, you should pay dearly for it. Mentally,

1115
00:59:26,960 --> 00:59:29,280
Speaker 1: you know, there should be some stress. I love that

1116
00:59:29,360 --> 00:59:31,600
Speaker 1: kind of architecture. And that's one of the things I

1117
00:59:31,640 --> 00:59:33,840
Speaker 1: love about Crenshaw Core is that they design with that

1118
00:59:33,960 --> 00:59:37,600
Speaker 1: in mind. Fun but also they want you to have fun,

1119
00:59:37,720 --> 00:59:40,400
Speaker 1: but they also want you to pay a small price

1120
00:59:41,000 --> 00:59:42,680
Speaker 1: for a strategic mistake.

1121
00:59:43,400 --> 00:59:45,040
Speaker 2: Yeah. I love death biangle.

1122
00:59:45,760 --> 00:59:48,920
Speaker 1: Ah that's great, Great, I'm stealing that death bi angle.

1123
00:59:49,000 --> 00:59:51,520
Speaker 1: I'll give you full credit at some point trade market

1124
00:59:51,680 --> 00:59:53,600
Speaker 1: death by angle. Yeah yeah.

1125
00:59:54,360 --> 00:59:56,000
Speaker 2: And you think you're okay, and then you get up

1126
00:59:56,000 --> 00:59:58,160
Speaker 2: there and you say, ah sh.

1127
00:59:57,680 --> 01:00:02,680
Speaker 1: Yeah right, death biangle, And then and then and then

1128
01:00:03,840 --> 01:00:06,400
Speaker 1: holy grail, you know, is the opposite of that, you know,

1129
01:00:06,560 --> 01:00:09,240
Speaker 1: reward by angle, you know, And and that's we spend

1130
01:00:09,240 --> 01:00:11,880
Speaker 1: more time talking about angles at Augusta National than any

1131
01:00:11,920 --> 01:00:14,880
Speaker 1: other golf course. You know, angles are important. You know,

1132
01:00:15,360 --> 01:00:17,320
Speaker 1: you know, you drive it down the left side, and

1133
01:00:17,840 --> 01:00:20,520
Speaker 1: you know, you you know, if you find the fairway

1134
01:00:20,640 --> 01:00:24,000
Speaker 1: balls above your feet, but you know you you want

1135
01:00:24,000 --> 01:00:28,120
Speaker 1: to hit towards the right center of that green. You know,

1136
01:00:28,240 --> 01:00:31,560
Speaker 1: you drive it down the left side at thirteen, you know,

1137
01:00:31,640 --> 01:00:33,600
Speaker 1: take that risk and then you've got a flatter lie.

1138
01:00:33,680 --> 01:00:35,959
Speaker 1: But you want now you want to hit a cut

1139
01:00:35,960 --> 01:00:39,040
Speaker 1: into that green. And we talk so much about shot

1140
01:00:39,080 --> 01:00:40,960
Speaker 1: shape and angles and where you want to drive it

1141
01:00:41,000 --> 01:00:44,440
Speaker 1: and you know, and we don't do that very often.

1142
01:00:44,520 --> 01:00:48,120
Speaker 1: That's because the architect those things were important to him. Yeah,

1143
01:00:48,200 --> 01:00:49,240
Speaker 1: what's your favorite course?

1144
01:00:49,720 --> 01:00:51,560
Speaker 2: Uh, sand Hills, Nebraska.

1145
01:00:51,720 --> 01:00:54,400
Speaker 1: Yeah, everybody, I hear that a lot. I've never played it,

1146
01:00:54,440 --> 01:00:56,400
Speaker 1: but I hear that a lot. To get out yeah

1147
01:00:56,400 --> 01:00:56,600
Speaker 1: I did.

1148
01:00:56,640 --> 01:01:01,520
Speaker 2: That's if you leave Sandhills without a grasp at least

1149
01:01:01,560 --> 01:01:05,960
Speaker 2: a grasp of strategic what strategic golf? No kidding you are,

1150
01:01:06,040 --> 01:01:08,200
Speaker 2: you're pretty a napped if you all right without it?

1151
01:01:08,240 --> 01:01:08,919
Speaker 1: All right, but.

1152
01:01:09,000 --> 01:01:12,800
Speaker 2: It's I mean, everything's about angles and and you get

1153
01:01:12,840 --> 01:01:16,440
Speaker 2: the elements out there in the sand in Nebraska. I mean,

1154
01:01:16,880 --> 01:01:19,800
Speaker 2: it'll be blown thirty miles an hour from one direction

1155
01:01:19,920 --> 01:01:21,960
Speaker 2: for your front nine, and it'll switch on the back nine.

1156
01:01:22,000 --> 01:01:25,720
Speaker 2: These holes play remarkably different day in day out. I mean,

1157
01:01:25,760 --> 01:01:27,720
Speaker 2: I mean it is a special place.

1158
01:01:27,840 --> 01:01:29,120
Speaker 1: I got to get out there. You know, my wife

1159
01:01:29,160 --> 01:01:31,600
Speaker 1: is a heck of a golfer. She loves to play

1160
01:01:31,800 --> 01:01:35,760
Speaker 1: and and she's always after me to take a golf

1161
01:01:35,800 --> 01:01:39,200
Speaker 1: trip here or there. And I haven't thought about sand Hills,

1162
01:01:39,240 --> 01:01:41,080
Speaker 1: but it's got to get out there.

1163
01:01:41,120 --> 01:01:43,360
Speaker 2: It's a cool place. It's in the middle of nowhere.

1164
01:01:43,080 --> 01:01:46,000
Speaker 1: Though, right, Yeah, well, I think we found out that

1165
01:01:46,400 --> 01:01:48,640
Speaker 1: you know that that adage about you know, if you

1166
01:01:48,640 --> 01:01:51,960
Speaker 1: build it, they'll come bandon? Do is prove that correct

1167
01:01:52,320 --> 01:01:55,320
Speaker 1: pretty much? Area Cabot Links prove that to be correct.

1168
01:01:55,320 --> 01:01:56,960
Speaker 1: I mean we went to Cabot Links, my wife and

1169
01:01:57,000 --> 01:02:01,280
Speaker 1: I last summer on a break, and you know, it

1170
01:02:01,320 --> 01:02:03,680
Speaker 1: was it's like reading a great book. You know, you

1171
01:02:03,720 --> 01:02:05,720
Speaker 1: want to read it, but you really want to take

1172
01:02:05,760 --> 01:02:09,000
Speaker 1: your time, you know, because you're enjoying it so much.

1173
01:02:09,040 --> 01:02:11,080
Speaker 1: So I didn't want to finish. I didn't want to

1174
01:02:11,200 --> 01:02:13,040
Speaker 1: stop every day, you know, every hole. I was like,

1175
01:02:13,080 --> 01:02:15,280
Speaker 1: I just want to walk slow, you know, I don't

1176
01:02:15,360 --> 01:02:18,560
Speaker 1: want to hurry and finish this round. It's too perfect.

1177
01:02:19,000 --> 01:02:23,240
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean in Abandon Dune's Cabot those things wouldn't

1178
01:02:23,240 --> 01:02:25,919
Speaker 2: have happened without sand Hills because that was that first, right,

1179
01:02:26,120 --> 01:02:30,000
Speaker 2: the first real minimalist core crunchhaw where it was all

1180
01:02:30,040 --> 01:02:32,520
Speaker 2: about the golf. So sand Hills was ninety five. It

1181
01:02:32,600 --> 01:02:35,880
Speaker 2: was a little bit after Kapalua and sand Hills. I mean,

1182
01:02:36,800 --> 01:02:40,800
Speaker 2: Mike Kaiser's remember it at sand Hills, Like, yeah, I'm

1183
01:02:40,880 --> 01:02:43,560
Speaker 2: certain that if sand Hills hadn't have worked, you wouldn't

1184
01:02:43,560 --> 01:02:46,200
Speaker 2: have bandon dunes, you wouldn't have how about that cabot

1185
01:02:46,320 --> 01:02:47,280
Speaker 2: clips and links?

1186
01:02:47,600 --> 01:02:50,400
Speaker 1: So I haven't heard anybody connect the dots like that.

1187
01:02:50,680 --> 01:02:54,640
Speaker 2: I like that you to golf swings as meat up.

1188
01:02:56,240 --> 01:02:58,880
Speaker 1: Well, now I have a nice source for architecture. I

1189
01:02:58,880 --> 01:02:59,880
Speaker 1: appreciate that, Andy.

1190
01:03:00,840 --> 01:03:05,560
Speaker 2: So Overrated Underrated is our regular segment of the podcast.

1191
01:03:05,600 --> 01:03:07,600
Speaker 2: So we're going to just throw some stuff at you

1192
01:03:07,680 --> 01:03:11,160
Speaker 2: and say are these things overrated? Underrated?

1193
01:03:11,280 --> 01:03:12,040
Speaker 1: Okay, We're going.

1194
01:03:12,040 --> 01:03:14,360
Speaker 2: To start with the city of Orlando.

1195
01:03:14,600 --> 01:03:22,439
Speaker 1: Overrated or underrated? Underrated if you're under eighteen overrated. Otherwise,

1196
01:03:23,160 --> 01:03:26,160
Speaker 1: the traffic here has leaves a little to be desired.

1197
01:03:26,240 --> 01:03:30,480
Speaker 1: The Interstate four will give the four h five in

1198
01:03:30,640 --> 01:03:37,160
Speaker 1: LA to a side for chaotic conditions at all hours

1199
01:03:37,160 --> 01:03:41,400
Speaker 1: of the day. Yesterday was today today's Tuesday, Sunday. My

1200
01:03:41,440 --> 01:03:43,680
Speaker 1: wife and I wanted to go play golf. It's twenty

1201
01:03:43,680 --> 01:03:46,160
Speaker 1: minutes to my club, and we hit rush hour traffic

1202
01:03:46,240 --> 01:03:48,280
Speaker 1: at eleven o'clock on Sunday and it took me an

1203
01:03:48,320 --> 01:03:52,120
Speaker 1: hour to get over there for no reason, no discernible reason.

1204
01:03:52,200 --> 01:03:55,320
Speaker 3: So yes, that question was spawned from an explet of

1205
01:03:55,400 --> 01:03:58,800
Speaker 3: laden conversation we had actually driving over here today.

1206
01:03:59,000 --> 01:04:02,120
Speaker 1: You feel my pain. So don't just think that you're

1207
01:04:02,120 --> 01:04:05,520
Speaker 1: here and it's gone. And every day I'm here, those

1208
01:04:05,560 --> 01:04:08,240
Speaker 1: expletives are in my head as I drive around this town.

1209
01:04:08,840 --> 01:04:11,960
Speaker 1: It's like, where are the city planners? You know? I

1210
01:04:11,960 --> 01:04:13,520
Speaker 1: want to you know, yes, I want to have a

1211
01:04:13,560 --> 01:04:14,240
Speaker 1: talk with them.

1212
01:04:14,640 --> 01:04:18,160
Speaker 2: If your if your job and you know, regular work

1213
01:04:18,320 --> 01:04:22,440
Speaker 2: wasn't here, what city would you live in?

1214
01:04:22,480 --> 01:04:27,200
Speaker 1: New York City? Probably? You know it's the energy of

1215
01:04:27,240 --> 01:04:30,800
Speaker 1: that place. Uh, you know, the talent that people have

1216
01:04:30,960 --> 01:04:33,560
Speaker 1: everywhere there. You know, you go to a show, you

1217
01:04:33,640 --> 01:04:36,920
Speaker 1: go to a restaurant, you know, you go to a museum.

1218
01:04:37,040 --> 01:04:42,000
Speaker 1: You see, my goodness, you know, the the confluence of

1219
01:04:42,760 --> 01:04:45,560
Speaker 1: energy of that city is magnetic.

1220
01:04:47,360 --> 01:04:51,919
Speaker 3: How about overrated underrated stacking tilt.

1221
01:04:53,360 --> 01:05:01,440
Speaker 1: You guys? You guys, I uh over it underrated stack.

1222
01:05:01,280 --> 01:05:06,360
Speaker 2: Until because stack until tendencies in this way? Yeah?

1223
01:05:06,560 --> 01:05:09,439
Speaker 1: Where these brought about? Because you do you decided that,

1224
01:05:09,600 --> 01:05:11,480
Speaker 1: you know, to go down that way purposely or it

1225
01:05:11,520 --> 01:05:12,640
Speaker 1: just happened. It just happened.

1226
01:05:12,680 --> 01:05:14,720
Speaker 3: And it's funny because like five or six years ago,

1227
01:05:14,720 --> 01:05:17,439
Speaker 3: when stack untilt was in right, people were like, oh man,

1228
01:05:17,560 --> 01:05:20,080
Speaker 3: love your golf swing. You naturally stack in tilt that's awesome.

1229
01:05:20,400 --> 01:05:22,640
Speaker 3: And now it's like, oh god, dude, you're stacking in

1230
01:05:22,680 --> 01:05:23,800
Speaker 3: tilting right, fix that.

1231
01:05:23,840 --> 01:05:29,840
Speaker 1: Right, you're stacking in tilting. Well, look, I I don't

1232
01:05:29,840 --> 01:05:32,680
Speaker 1: believe they had any mal intent these guys at all.

1233
01:05:32,920 --> 01:05:36,280
Speaker 1: You know, they they they they had good intentions. I

1234
01:05:36,280 --> 01:05:42,640
Speaker 1: don't think they purposely wanted to harm anybody. But I

1235
01:05:42,840 --> 01:05:46,640
Speaker 1: don't find any value in it, you know, I I

1236
01:05:47,160 --> 01:05:50,600
Speaker 1: see validity for it when somebody can't move, you know,

1237
01:05:50,760 --> 01:05:53,640
Speaker 1: if if somebody doesn't have the ability to transfer their weight,

1238
01:05:54,520 --> 01:05:57,400
Speaker 1: you know, to the right or to the left, staying

1239
01:05:57,840 --> 01:06:02,680
Speaker 1: in the same place gives you some consistency. So as

1240
01:06:02,720 --> 01:06:08,200
Speaker 1: a philosophy to help poor players with very limited mobility,

1241
01:06:08,760 --> 01:06:12,600
Speaker 1: I see utility in the idea. But for better players,

1242
01:06:13,520 --> 01:06:16,720
Speaker 1: you know, it'd be like giving training wheels to Lance Armstrong.

1243
01:06:16,880 --> 01:06:20,560
Speaker 1: You know, you're you know, these guys can move. And

1244
01:06:21,560 --> 01:06:25,480
Speaker 1: every great player moved off of the ball, every single

1245
01:06:25,600 --> 01:06:30,200
Speaker 1: one of them, every single one of them male or female.

1246
01:06:30,600 --> 01:06:34,120
Speaker 1: They did not have a stationary head. They moved to

1247
01:06:34,160 --> 01:06:36,600
Speaker 1: the right, they moved up, and they transfer their way

1248
01:06:36,640 --> 01:06:39,760
Speaker 1: to the right. Every athletic endeavor involves a weight transfer,

1249
01:06:40,280 --> 01:06:45,200
Speaker 1: loading and unloading. So you know, those guys. You know,

1250
01:06:45,280 --> 01:06:50,400
Speaker 1: I've Plumber and Bennett. I think they're smart guys, you

1251
01:06:50,440 --> 01:06:54,600
Speaker 1: know I do. I think they're well intentioned, and clearly

1252
01:06:54,680 --> 01:06:57,080
Speaker 1: a lot of people thought there was validity to their ideas.

1253
01:06:57,680 --> 01:06:59,320
Speaker 1: I just didn't have an agree with them. I'll just

1254
01:06:59,400 --> 01:07:01,440
Speaker 1: say this though again, if they were sitting right here,

1255
01:07:01,480 --> 01:07:05,280
Speaker 1: I'm sure we'd have a pleasant conversation. I don't agree

1256
01:07:05,360 --> 01:07:08,280
Speaker 1: with the teaching philosophies all the way through of Hank Haney.

1257
01:07:08,760 --> 01:07:10,280
Speaker 1: I'm going to play in the member guest with Hank

1258
01:07:10,320 --> 01:07:12,160
Speaker 1: Haney at his club. I don't agree with the teaching

1259
01:07:12,160 --> 01:07:14,640
Speaker 1: philosophies of Butch Harmon. You know, I don't think you

1260
01:07:14,680 --> 01:07:17,400
Speaker 1: should squat into your right leg or restrict or short

1261
01:07:17,400 --> 01:07:19,720
Speaker 1: in your back swing. I'd like to think Butch and

1262
01:07:19,800 --> 01:07:22,040
Speaker 1: our friends and we talk about golf swing a lot,

1263
01:07:22,480 --> 01:07:25,080
Speaker 1: you know, wherever you're at. If I'm doing a panel

1264
01:07:25,160 --> 01:07:29,520
Speaker 1: open form tonight with a bunch of teachers, every one

1265
01:07:29,520 --> 01:07:31,000
Speaker 1: of those teachers, to the person to the right of

1266
01:07:31,040 --> 01:07:32,400
Speaker 1: them and the person who the left with them, they

1267
01:07:32,440 --> 01:07:36,240
Speaker 1: do not agree with what they teach, but they're all

1268
01:07:36,280 --> 01:07:38,440
Speaker 1: trying to do the right thing. So I'll say this

1269
01:07:38,480 --> 01:07:41,520
Speaker 1: about Plumber and Bennett I'm well intentioned. They're smart guys.

1270
01:07:41,800 --> 01:07:43,760
Speaker 1: I just don't happen to agree with their philosophies.

1271
01:07:45,160 --> 01:07:49,120
Speaker 2: So I really appreciate the time. No, you got to

1272
01:07:49,120 --> 01:07:50,880
Speaker 2: get out of here. You gotta get to that panel.

1273
01:07:51,520 --> 01:07:54,880
Speaker 1: Thank you. I'm actually going to meet I had arranged

1274
01:07:54,880 --> 01:07:58,080
Speaker 1: the lunch meeting with when I was very early in golf,

1275
01:07:58,680 --> 01:08:02,520
Speaker 1: professional golf. Uh, you know, trying to qualify for the tour.

1276
01:08:02,600 --> 01:08:04,360
Speaker 1: You know, you got all this quallity, a little section

1277
01:08:04,520 --> 01:08:07,320
Speaker 1: only reading or whatever. You know, that's life or death

1278
01:08:07,360 --> 01:08:09,920
Speaker 1: every shot. And I used to travel with a fellow

1279
01:08:09,960 --> 01:08:11,360
Speaker 1: one of the guys that he's traveled with, a fellow,

1280
01:08:11,520 --> 01:08:15,800
Speaker 1: n Evan Schiller. Evan now has become a foremost photographer.

1281
01:08:16,280 --> 01:08:18,679
Speaker 1: And Evan is in town this week, and he'd asked

1282
01:08:18,680 --> 01:08:20,880
Speaker 1: me to lunch. Uh, and we're you know, we're just

1283
01:08:20,920 --> 01:08:23,200
Speaker 1: going right across the street here. I haven't seen Evan

1284
01:08:23,240 --> 01:08:25,320
Speaker 1: the last time I saw him. You know, we were

1285
01:08:25,640 --> 01:08:28,240
Speaker 1: living and dying with every golf shot. And so one

1286
01:08:28,280 --> 01:08:30,639
Speaker 1: of the things about social media is you just keep

1287
01:08:30,680 --> 01:08:32,920
Speaker 1: track of people's lives. And I see his photography, I'm like,

1288
01:08:32,960 --> 01:08:36,280
Speaker 1: good gosh, you've turned into this phenomenal photographer. So I'm

1289
01:08:36,280 --> 01:08:38,519
Speaker 1: going to meet Evan for lunch and catch up before

1290
01:08:38,560 --> 01:08:41,960
Speaker 1: I dive into the panel tonight. You guys are gonna

1291
01:08:41,960 --> 01:08:42,240
Speaker 1: be there.

1292
01:08:42,920 --> 01:08:45,519
Speaker 2: We are not We're gonna We're gonna go see it

1293
01:08:45,600 --> 01:08:48,840
Speaker 2: up for nine week winter Park. I'm a Chicago Well

1294
01:08:48,880 --> 01:08:49,680
Speaker 2: there you go, right.

1295
01:08:50,040 --> 01:08:55,320
Speaker 1: Winter Park is my producer at our golf Channel's name

1296
01:08:55,360 --> 01:08:57,880
Speaker 1: is Matt Haggerty. Yeah, I know Matt. You know Matt.

1297
01:08:58,080 --> 01:09:00,240
Speaker 1: Matt lives in winter Park and he had a lot

1298
01:09:00,320 --> 01:09:04,120
Speaker 1: to do with getting the architects. He picked them, found them,

1299
01:09:04,680 --> 01:09:07,360
Speaker 1: coerced them into doing that project on a shoe string budget.

1300
01:09:07,640 --> 01:09:10,320
Speaker 1: And my wife and I for you know, giggles. You know,

1301
01:09:10,479 --> 01:09:12,760
Speaker 1: it cost twelve dollars to go over there and play golf.

1302
01:09:12,760 --> 01:09:15,000
Speaker 1: And it's a fabulous golf course and it's right in

1303
01:09:15,040 --> 01:09:17,120
Speaker 1: the middle of the city. It's like Scotland. You go

1304
01:09:17,120 --> 01:09:19,519
Speaker 1: over there, play play nine holes, go have a drink. Yeah.

1305
01:09:19,560 --> 01:09:21,240
Speaker 3: Andy told me to play there like a month or

1306
01:09:21,320 --> 01:09:22,840
Speaker 3: a couple of months ago, and I got there and

1307
01:09:22,840 --> 01:09:24,200
Speaker 3: I was like, what the hell is this place? And

1308
01:09:24,200 --> 01:09:25,800
Speaker 3: then I got done playing, I'm like, God, I gotta

1309
01:09:25,800 --> 01:09:26,400
Speaker 3: go play again.

1310
01:09:26,640 --> 01:09:28,920
Speaker 1: Oh no, It's terrific. You guys have fun. You guys.

1311
01:09:29,160 --> 01:09:31,200
Speaker 1: I'm jealous. I wish I was over there with you guys.

1312
01:09:31,200 --> 01:09:33,519
Speaker 1: We'll have to get together and play sometime. Really nice

1313
01:09:33,520 --> 01:09:35,880
Speaker 1: to meet you guys. You know put it. You know. Look,

1314
01:09:36,040 --> 01:09:37,680
Speaker 1: you get on Twitter and there's a whole lot of

1315
01:09:37,720 --> 01:09:40,400
Speaker 1: snark on Twitter, and you guys, you guys don't do that.

1316
01:09:40,560 --> 01:09:42,760
Speaker 1: You know, you're all about the betterment of this game,

1317
01:09:42,800 --> 01:09:45,760
Speaker 1: and you put out great content. So it's really nice

1318
01:09:45,760 --> 01:09:48,320
Speaker 1: to put faces with Twitter handles. So for sure, Well,

1319
01:09:48,520 --> 01:09:50,479
Speaker 1: thank you so much again. Yeah, I look forward to

1320
01:09:50,439 --> 01:09:54,559
Speaker 1: it anytime. I appreciate that. I appreciate it. Yeah, cheers. Yep,

1321
01:09:55,760 --> 01:09:59,080
Speaker 1: you've been listening to the fried Egg podcast. We do

1322
01:09:59,120 --> 01:10:00,320
Speaker 1: the digging for you.