1 00:00:03,360 --> 00:00:08,039 Speaker 1: Ruby. 2 00:00:09,240 --> 00:00:12,440 Speaker 2: I'm Holly Fry and this is season two of Our Skin, 3 00:00:12,640 --> 00:00:22,599 Speaker 2: a personal discovery podcast. Today we are super thrilled to 4 00:00:22,720 --> 00:00:26,960 Speaker 2: welcome Leanne Hunter to Our Skin. Leanne is a very 5 00:00:27,000 --> 00:00:32,040 Speaker 2: passionate soriasis advocate and the co founder of a particular 6 00:00:32,080 --> 00:00:35,400 Speaker 2: project within the Get Your Skin Out movement, and this 7 00:00:35,479 --> 00:00:40,720 Speaker 2: is dedicated to making ciasis visible but also beautiful. And 8 00:00:40,760 --> 00:00:44,479 Speaker 2: the photographs that are part of this project are so 9 00:00:44,640 --> 00:00:47,360 Speaker 2: spectacularly gorgeous. You don't just get your skin out, you 10 00:00:47,400 --> 00:00:50,280 Speaker 2: blow people away with how beautiful it is. And through 11 00:00:50,320 --> 00:00:52,839 Speaker 2: her work, Leanne has built a community where showing your 12 00:00:52,880 --> 00:00:55,680 Speaker 2: skin is, yes, an act of bravery, but more than that, 13 00:00:55,760 --> 00:00:58,000 Speaker 2: it is an act of connection. And we're going to 14 00:00:58,120 --> 00:01:00,920 Speaker 2: learn more about Leanne first, and then we're going to 15 00:01:00,960 --> 00:01:04,200 Speaker 2: step back into history to discover the story of a 16 00:01:04,200 --> 00:01:07,160 Speaker 2: man named Josh White, who is a blues guitarist who 17 00:01:07,319 --> 00:01:12,080 Speaker 2: siriasis manifested primarily on his hands, which is something that, 18 00:01:12,200 --> 00:01:14,600 Speaker 2: as we'll learn, Leanne can relate to and also, as 19 00:01:14,600 --> 00:01:17,479 Speaker 2: you can imagine, made that a tricky proposition for a career. 20 00:01:18,200 --> 00:01:20,240 Speaker 2: So Leanne, thank you so much for being on Our Skin. 21 00:01:20,280 --> 00:01:21,320 Speaker 2: We're so happy to have you. 22 00:01:21,560 --> 00:01:22,400 Speaker 3: Yeah. Thanks for having me. 23 00:01:22,800 --> 00:01:25,880 Speaker 2: I want to start with your overall experience, because you 24 00:01:25,920 --> 00:01:29,600 Speaker 2: were diagnosed really quite young. When did you, as a 25 00:01:29,680 --> 00:01:32,560 Speaker 2: kid realize, oh, this is my life, like this is 26 00:01:32,600 --> 00:01:35,400 Speaker 2: something I have to manage for a prolonged period of time. 27 00:01:35,880 --> 00:01:38,920 Speaker 1: I was diagnosed when I was five, so I don't 28 00:01:39,000 --> 00:01:42,200 Speaker 1: really remember life without zorasis. Thinking back, I have a 29 00:01:42,240 --> 00:01:44,280 Speaker 1: sister who's a year younger than me, and there was 30 00:01:44,440 --> 00:01:46,440 Speaker 1: kind of points of difference as we were growing up 31 00:01:46,520 --> 00:01:50,440 Speaker 1: in that bedtime. For example, being quite young, I'm running 32 00:01:50,440 --> 00:01:52,080 Speaker 1: around the house trying to find my more, my dad, 33 00:01:52,080 --> 00:01:54,160 Speaker 1: my sister, somebody to put cream on my back so 34 00:01:54,200 --> 00:01:56,040 Speaker 1: I could go to bed, because it was part of 35 00:01:56,080 --> 00:01:59,200 Speaker 1: the kind of daily routine and that didn't have to 36 00:01:59,240 --> 00:02:02,640 Speaker 1: help him for my so obviously we were a little bit. 37 00:02:02,560 --> 00:02:04,360 Speaker 3: Different growing up. 38 00:02:04,480 --> 00:02:08,040 Speaker 1: There was a couple of like comments from younger children 39 00:02:08,160 --> 00:02:11,679 Speaker 1: around you know, why do you have corn flakes which 40 00:02:11,720 --> 00:02:13,280 Speaker 1: is a breakfast cereal whit? You know, I you have 41 00:02:13,320 --> 00:02:16,160 Speaker 1: corn flakes in your hair like I witsor isis and 42 00:02:16,240 --> 00:02:19,720 Speaker 1: kind of seeing that somebody didn't really understand what that was. 43 00:02:20,040 --> 00:02:21,360 Speaker 1: But I think it was probably when we got to 44 00:02:21,400 --> 00:02:24,880 Speaker 1: the teen years and I had more of an understanding 45 00:02:24,919 --> 00:02:26,880 Speaker 1: and more of a kind of grasp on like treatment 46 00:02:26,919 --> 00:02:28,800 Speaker 1: cycles and things like that I was like, Okay, this 47 00:02:28,919 --> 00:02:29,680 Speaker 1: is not going away. 48 00:02:30,120 --> 00:02:31,720 Speaker 3: I need to get under the skin of this and 49 00:02:32,000 --> 00:02:32,600 Speaker 3: figure it out. 50 00:02:33,000 --> 00:02:35,720 Speaker 2: And there was an event that happened to you when 51 00:02:35,760 --> 00:02:37,680 Speaker 2: you were a teen where you were at a swimming 52 00:02:37,720 --> 00:02:40,720 Speaker 2: pool and having a flare and someone asked. 53 00:02:40,520 --> 00:02:41,280 Speaker 3: You to leave. 54 00:02:41,520 --> 00:02:45,440 Speaker 2: Correct, Yeah, that's right because they thought you had something contagious. 55 00:02:45,480 --> 00:02:48,200 Speaker 2: They didn't understand. Yeah, that had to have been so 56 00:02:48,280 --> 00:02:52,160 Speaker 2: incredibly gutting. The teen years have their own traps for 57 00:02:52,240 --> 00:02:56,720 Speaker 2: somebody that has no additional stressors to deal with, how 58 00:02:56,720 --> 00:02:58,800 Speaker 2: did you handle that as a young person and do 59 00:02:58,880 --> 00:03:00,760 Speaker 2: you still run into those of incidence? 60 00:03:01,320 --> 00:03:04,600 Speaker 1: Yeah, So it was actually the lifeguard that pulled me out, 61 00:03:04,680 --> 00:03:08,360 Speaker 1: which was the most frustrating thing about the situation, because 62 00:03:09,200 --> 00:03:12,200 Speaker 1: the particular swim pool that we were in had been 63 00:03:12,200 --> 00:03:15,280 Speaker 1: built for like the Commonwealth Games, and there was the 64 00:03:15,320 --> 00:03:18,760 Speaker 1: whole kind of thing around inclusivity, and so they really 65 00:03:18,760 --> 00:03:21,240 Speaker 1: should have known and yeah, you're right, thirteen, you do 66 00:03:21,360 --> 00:03:22,320 Speaker 1: not want to be stood on a. 67 00:03:22,240 --> 00:03:24,639 Speaker 3: Pool side or for anything. 68 00:03:25,040 --> 00:03:27,120 Speaker 1: I have a really small sister in the water that 69 00:03:27,120 --> 00:03:30,080 Speaker 1: I'm trying to like grapple out with me, and to me, 70 00:03:30,840 --> 00:03:33,799 Speaker 1: I was like, no, I'd never been accused of being 71 00:03:33,800 --> 00:03:35,400 Speaker 1: contagious before as well, so I think I was a 72 00:03:35,440 --> 00:03:37,240 Speaker 1: bit shocked and I was like, no, it's just crisis, 73 00:03:37,720 --> 00:03:40,680 Speaker 1: and like quite innocently saying it's just crisis, and there 74 00:03:40,720 --> 00:03:44,119 Speaker 1: was no recognition what the condition was and a lot 75 00:03:44,120 --> 00:03:47,080 Speaker 1: of resistance. Well regardless they think you contagiously, You've got 76 00:03:47,080 --> 00:03:48,640 Speaker 1: to get out, and by that point I was like, 77 00:03:48,760 --> 00:03:52,840 Speaker 1: I just need to disappear. I think the situation wouldn't 78 00:03:52,880 --> 00:03:54,960 Speaker 1: happen in that way now in this day and age 79 00:03:54,960 --> 00:03:58,080 Speaker 1: because of the awareness. I think it probably if it 80 00:03:58,080 --> 00:04:00,360 Speaker 1: happened now, would stammer around a lot more like I 81 00:04:00,400 --> 00:04:01,160 Speaker 1: am not getting out. 82 00:04:01,800 --> 00:04:03,760 Speaker 3: It was tough, but you know. 83 00:04:04,240 --> 00:04:08,040 Speaker 1: It does still happen now occasionally, not the contagious thing. 84 00:04:08,080 --> 00:04:09,920 Speaker 1: But I have an eight year old boy, and when 85 00:04:09,920 --> 00:04:13,640 Speaker 1: he was born, I was determined to getting the poll 86 00:04:13,680 --> 00:04:17,640 Speaker 1: within regardless of how bad mycerisis was, and he is 87 00:04:17,680 --> 00:04:20,600 Speaker 1: the best distraction on any given day. There's so much 88 00:04:20,680 --> 00:04:24,880 Speaker 1: innocence in children that I have had kind of parents 89 00:04:24,920 --> 00:04:28,960 Speaker 1: pull children away it's particularly bad. And there was a 90 00:04:29,000 --> 00:04:32,000 Speaker 1: particular situation so Oscar kind of he's grown up, just 91 00:04:32,040 --> 00:04:34,039 Speaker 1: really accepting what it is, and like there's a real 92 00:04:34,160 --> 00:04:38,039 Speaker 1: curious nature to the way he approaches it. And he 93 00:04:38,320 --> 00:04:40,520 Speaker 1: I don't think he saw this woman pull away, but 94 00:04:40,880 --> 00:04:42,640 Speaker 1: perfect time, and he's kind of come over and started 95 00:04:42,680 --> 00:04:44,880 Speaker 1: kissing the patches and saying like, oh yeah, oh, she's 96 00:04:44,880 --> 00:04:47,560 Speaker 1: a saw And this woman that had pulled a child 97 00:04:47,600 --> 00:04:50,880 Speaker 1: away was just watching and observing. And then she actually 98 00:04:50,880 --> 00:04:53,359 Speaker 1: came back over and was like, I'm really sorry I 99 00:04:53,480 --> 00:04:54,720 Speaker 1: kind of pulled away with fear. 100 00:04:54,880 --> 00:04:56,960 Speaker 3: Would you mind telling me what that is? A sawy 101 00:04:57,000 --> 00:04:57,920 Speaker 3: little boy kissing it? 102 00:04:58,240 --> 00:05:00,000 Speaker 1: And so that for me was like a really nice 103 00:05:00,320 --> 00:05:04,760 Speaker 1: because I think sometimes with awareness, you don't know, some 104 00:05:04,800 --> 00:05:06,640 Speaker 1: people sometimes need that prompting. 105 00:05:07,160 --> 00:05:10,719 Speaker 3: But the fact that she could backtrack and then, yeah. 106 00:05:10,160 --> 00:05:12,320 Speaker 1: That was a nice teaching for her child as well, 107 00:05:12,400 --> 00:05:14,680 Speaker 1: to kind of demonstrate Okay, well I didn't know. 108 00:05:14,720 --> 00:05:16,960 Speaker 3: Now I'm trying to understand, and we open the conversation. 109 00:05:17,080 --> 00:05:18,080 Speaker 3: So it was nice. 110 00:05:18,240 --> 00:05:20,400 Speaker 2: I like that you have accidentally raised ask her to 111 00:05:20,440 --> 00:05:22,760 Speaker 2: be an advocate for people to understand better. 112 00:05:22,960 --> 00:05:23,159 Speaker 3: Yeah. 113 00:05:23,200 --> 00:05:25,120 Speaker 2: I also want to talk about your experience with the 114 00:05:25,160 --> 00:05:28,200 Speaker 2: medical community, because you were diagnosed when you were very 115 00:05:28,240 --> 00:05:31,559 Speaker 2: very young, but a lot has really changed in terms 116 00:05:31,560 --> 00:05:36,000 Speaker 2: of treatment and education of both doctors and patients. What 117 00:05:36,120 --> 00:05:38,680 Speaker 2: has your experience been, because a lot of guests tell 118 00:05:38,760 --> 00:05:41,480 Speaker 2: us that self advocacy becomes the biggest part of it. 119 00:05:41,680 --> 00:05:43,880 Speaker 2: Sometimes you have to go to many doctors and explain 120 00:05:43,920 --> 00:05:46,160 Speaker 2: it over and over, which puts a lot of burden 121 00:05:46,279 --> 00:05:48,880 Speaker 2: on the patient to be an educator as well as 122 00:05:49,000 --> 00:05:50,920 Speaker 2: someone that needs help. Will you tell us what that 123 00:05:50,960 --> 00:05:52,200 Speaker 2: part of your journey's been like. 124 00:05:52,480 --> 00:05:54,880 Speaker 1: I think you're right, it has really changed over time, 125 00:05:54,920 --> 00:05:58,880 Speaker 1: but it's also really dependent on the individual that you see, 126 00:05:58,880 --> 00:06:00,960 Speaker 1: whether that's a doctor or dem ptologists. And I can 127 00:06:01,000 --> 00:06:03,880 Speaker 1: only speak from the UK because I've grown up through 128 00:06:04,000 --> 00:06:06,839 Speaker 1: that healthcare system. You know, you get seven minutes with 129 00:06:06,880 --> 00:06:11,159 Speaker 1: a doctor to try and explain something that impacts every 130 00:06:11,240 --> 00:06:14,360 Speaker 1: aspect of your life, and they're very much only treating 131 00:06:14,920 --> 00:06:19,080 Speaker 1: the kind of physical condition and it's so much more so. 132 00:06:19,440 --> 00:06:23,000 Speaker 1: I think for a long time I was told it's 133 00:06:23,040 --> 00:06:26,000 Speaker 1: a skin condition, you just need to creamy plaques, and 134 00:06:26,400 --> 00:06:27,960 Speaker 1: you know, here's some treatment that will help with the 135 00:06:28,000 --> 00:06:31,280 Speaker 1: plaque thing, and then it has to get to a 136 00:06:31,279 --> 00:06:33,560 Speaker 1: certain point. There's only some treatments in the new it's 137 00:06:33,600 --> 00:06:36,000 Speaker 1: a real struggle to get referred to the next level, 138 00:06:36,000 --> 00:06:38,200 Speaker 1: which is a dermatologist who hold the keys to a 139 00:06:38,200 --> 00:06:41,520 Speaker 1: lot more information and a lot more treatments. And you 140 00:06:41,560 --> 00:06:44,000 Speaker 1: can wait a year to get to that point, trying 141 00:06:44,120 --> 00:06:47,120 Speaker 1: failing treatments. Then you get to the dermatology, you've got 142 00:06:47,120 --> 00:06:51,719 Speaker 1: fifteen minutes. You'll hit with a lot of very medical questions. 143 00:06:51,720 --> 00:06:53,840 Speaker 1: And I'm not a medical person. I don't really clearly 144 00:06:53,880 --> 00:06:56,400 Speaker 1: don't understand a lot about my condition, which is why 145 00:06:56,400 --> 00:06:59,400 Speaker 1: I've come to you, and it can be quite intimidating, 146 00:06:59,480 --> 00:07:01,080 Speaker 1: so I mean, and I've had it since I was five. 147 00:07:01,160 --> 00:07:02,120 Speaker 3: So once my mum. 148 00:07:02,040 --> 00:07:05,560 Speaker 1: Handed over the reigns of treatment, it was a kind 149 00:07:05,600 --> 00:07:08,719 Speaker 1: of really uphill learning curve as to how to get 150 00:07:08,760 --> 00:07:11,640 Speaker 1: a grip of those appointments to get the right outcome 151 00:07:11,680 --> 00:07:13,560 Speaker 1: for me, Like sharing. 152 00:07:13,320 --> 00:07:16,840 Speaker 3: My journey online and learning. 153 00:07:16,520 --> 00:07:19,560 Speaker 1: From other people the outcomes of their appointments was a 154 00:07:19,600 --> 00:07:22,000 Speaker 1: real turning point for me because there's a whole lot 155 00:07:22,000 --> 00:07:26,000 Speaker 1: of knowledge from other people and that was something that 156 00:07:26,120 --> 00:07:28,680 Speaker 1: I then was felt quite passionately about sharing with other 157 00:07:28,680 --> 00:07:31,200 Speaker 1: people as well, how to empower themselves with those appointments 158 00:07:31,240 --> 00:07:33,000 Speaker 1: to make sure they're getting the best out of it, 159 00:07:33,200 --> 00:07:35,600 Speaker 1: to make sure they're asking the right questions to kind 160 00:07:35,600 --> 00:07:38,400 Speaker 1: of put the other pieces of the puzzle together, so 161 00:07:38,440 --> 00:07:41,360 Speaker 1: we're not just talking about the scabs on the skin. 162 00:07:41,440 --> 00:07:43,800 Speaker 1: What else is impacting you? What else can you put 163 00:07:43,800 --> 00:07:47,600 Speaker 1: on these kind of questionnaires? How else can you take 164 00:07:47,640 --> 00:07:52,160 Speaker 1: hold of your autoimmune disease and treat it as one 165 00:07:52,360 --> 00:07:55,200 Speaker 1: versus just that and put that back to the dermatologist 166 00:07:55,320 --> 00:07:58,360 Speaker 1: and the medical practitioner so they can help guide that 167 00:07:58,400 --> 00:07:58,840 Speaker 1: as well. 168 00:07:59,320 --> 00:08:05,000 Speaker 2: Amazing, you share something in common with our historical figure 169 00:08:05,000 --> 00:08:08,040 Speaker 2: that we're talking about today, which is psoriasis often appearing 170 00:08:08,080 --> 00:08:12,720 Speaker 2: on your hands. That is a place where it's really visible. 171 00:08:12,800 --> 00:08:15,320 Speaker 2: So you have that whole problem of people not understanding, 172 00:08:15,520 --> 00:08:17,800 Speaker 2: but also that has to make your day to day 173 00:08:17,840 --> 00:08:21,200 Speaker 2: just excruciating because there's nothing we're not doing with our 174 00:08:21,240 --> 00:08:23,960 Speaker 2: hands all day long. How do you handle that? And 175 00:08:24,080 --> 00:08:26,840 Speaker 2: is that the hardest place for you to have a 176 00:08:26,880 --> 00:08:29,320 Speaker 2: flare or are there others that are kind of contenders 177 00:08:29,320 --> 00:08:29,960 Speaker 2: for the worst. 178 00:08:30,360 --> 00:08:30,680 Speaker 3: Yeah? 179 00:08:30,680 --> 00:08:34,800 Speaker 1: Definitely the hardest, Yeah, because it's also very unpredictable. So ironically, 180 00:08:35,040 --> 00:08:37,280 Speaker 1: if I can get all of my other services under control, 181 00:08:37,640 --> 00:08:39,880 Speaker 1: my nails will be there to remind me that it 182 00:08:39,920 --> 00:08:42,679 Speaker 1: is still here. I have not had a nail flare 183 00:08:42,760 --> 00:08:44,920 Speaker 1: for a good few years. But you're right, you can't 184 00:08:44,960 --> 00:08:46,600 Speaker 1: hide it. You know, if it's bad on my arm 185 00:08:46,600 --> 00:08:48,360 Speaker 1: and I don't feel confident to show it, I put 186 00:08:48,360 --> 00:08:50,480 Speaker 1: cardigan on. You can't really do anything with you nails. 187 00:08:50,480 --> 00:08:52,680 Speaker 1: You can't put nail varnish on when it's flaring. It 188 00:08:52,760 --> 00:08:56,280 Speaker 1: really disfigures them. I work in a corporate environment. When 189 00:08:56,320 --> 00:08:58,280 Speaker 1: I first started out, there's a lot of handshakes a 190 00:08:58,360 --> 00:09:00,520 Speaker 1: clientstead of like, no, I don't want to share your hand, 191 00:09:01,120 --> 00:09:04,640 Speaker 1: and like really simple things like keyboards never used to 192 00:09:04,640 --> 00:09:07,200 Speaker 1: be so touch sensitive, so you had to really press 193 00:09:07,240 --> 00:09:10,800 Speaker 1: on a keyboard, which was so painful, and you're expected 194 00:09:10,840 --> 00:09:11,160 Speaker 1: to work. 195 00:09:11,080 --> 00:09:12,960 Speaker 3: At speed, and like, I can't dipe it's really sore. 196 00:09:13,720 --> 00:09:16,720 Speaker 1: So there was that, and then I think probably the 197 00:09:16,760 --> 00:09:18,840 Speaker 1: worst time where I was most aware of it was 198 00:09:18,840 --> 00:09:19,800 Speaker 1: when I had my little boy. 199 00:09:19,960 --> 00:09:22,079 Speaker 3: And you don't realize how much you do with your hands. 200 00:09:22,120 --> 00:09:24,800 Speaker 1: And I've got this tiny little baby, we're out and 201 00:09:24,880 --> 00:09:28,959 Speaker 1: about the nails were really disfigured and just hanging off 202 00:09:29,000 --> 00:09:32,480 Speaker 1: the fingers and I'm trying to feed him in public 203 00:09:32,720 --> 00:09:37,239 Speaker 1: or I'm trying to pick him up, and it's just overwhelming. 204 00:09:37,920 --> 00:09:40,800 Speaker 1: On its own without then people kind of staring at 205 00:09:40,800 --> 00:09:43,640 Speaker 1: your fingers and you get funny looks about that. And 206 00:09:43,679 --> 00:09:48,040 Speaker 1: then there's been a few times where shop assistants won't 207 00:09:48,080 --> 00:09:50,520 Speaker 1: take the coins out of your hand because there'll be 208 00:09:50,520 --> 00:09:52,760 Speaker 1: too busy staring at your nails and you're like, can 209 00:09:52,800 --> 00:09:53,960 Speaker 1: I pay for this drink? 210 00:09:54,080 --> 00:09:56,680 Speaker 3: Or and they'll say you put the money on the side. 211 00:09:57,080 --> 00:10:01,240 Speaker 2: Early adopter of Apple Pay, h wear a lot of gloves. 212 00:10:01,600 --> 00:10:04,680 Speaker 2: I also want to talk to you, of course about 213 00:10:04,840 --> 00:10:06,920 Speaker 2: Get your Skin Out, because there are a lot of 214 00:10:06,920 --> 00:10:09,600 Speaker 2: people that experience what you do and they don't then 215 00:10:09,720 --> 00:10:13,400 Speaker 2: get involved in a global effort to educate and raise 216 00:10:13,440 --> 00:10:19,280 Speaker 2: awareness and also improve acceptance. So what made you think like, yeah, 217 00:10:19,280 --> 00:10:20,319 Speaker 2: I need to be part of that. 218 00:10:20,840 --> 00:10:23,640 Speaker 1: Holly Dylan is the founder of Getting Skinned Out. I 219 00:10:23,720 --> 00:10:26,480 Speaker 1: met Holly at the beginning of our kind of online 220 00:10:26,559 --> 00:10:31,000 Speaker 1: sirrisis journeys. We did another campaign together, and I mean, 221 00:10:31,040 --> 00:10:34,880 Speaker 1: she is a complete trailblazer and I had kind of 222 00:10:35,240 --> 00:10:38,880 Speaker 1: started out my journey trying to seek information and look 223 00:10:38,960 --> 00:10:41,040 Speaker 1: for other people that were like me, and I'd met 224 00:10:41,040 --> 00:10:43,080 Speaker 1: Holly online. Then we came together and I was like, Wow, 225 00:10:43,160 --> 00:10:45,640 Speaker 1: you have the same passion as me, but We're very different, 226 00:10:45,760 --> 00:10:48,760 Speaker 1: like she's a total extrovert, but we both had this 227 00:10:48,840 --> 00:10:51,840 Speaker 1: kind of mission where we wanted to demystify the condition. 228 00:10:52,160 --> 00:10:54,720 Speaker 1: We had such a good grip on our condition and 229 00:10:55,000 --> 00:10:59,000 Speaker 1: we were not shy to show you our skin and 230 00:10:59,080 --> 00:10:59,880 Speaker 1: it was all coming. 231 00:11:00,360 --> 00:11:00,959 Speaker 3: We wanted to have. 232 00:11:00,920 --> 00:11:02,720 Speaker 1: Better days with ours crisis, and we wanted to make 233 00:11:02,760 --> 00:11:05,520 Speaker 1: sure that everyone living with it felt comfortable enough to 234 00:11:05,640 --> 00:11:08,240 Speaker 1: just do what they wanted to do. So she had 235 00:11:08,320 --> 00:11:10,959 Speaker 1: just launched the campaign. She is so happy to get 236 00:11:10,960 --> 00:11:12,720 Speaker 1: in front of the camera. I'm more of a behind 237 00:11:12,760 --> 00:11:14,800 Speaker 1: the camera kind of person, like I will sit in 238 00:11:14,840 --> 00:11:17,560 Speaker 1: the DMS and I will offer all of the support 239 00:11:17,600 --> 00:11:19,760 Speaker 1: that I can, which she's happy to strip down and 240 00:11:19,800 --> 00:11:22,679 Speaker 1: get on the billboard. But we also wanted to bring 241 00:11:23,040 --> 00:11:28,400 Speaker 1: people together and kind of have those conversations that we 242 00:11:28,520 --> 00:11:30,440 Speaker 1: needed to have, but people were always too scared to 243 00:11:30,440 --> 00:11:33,679 Speaker 1: have them. So we brought nutritionists and I think at 244 00:11:33,679 --> 00:11:35,559 Speaker 1: one of the events we had like a sex therapist 245 00:11:35,640 --> 00:11:38,960 Speaker 1: and like really have those open, brave conversations that touch 246 00:11:39,040 --> 00:11:41,440 Speaker 1: on every impact of your life that crisis can touch 247 00:11:41,480 --> 00:11:45,000 Speaker 1: and just go here, go like this is everything. 248 00:11:44,640 --> 00:11:47,520 Speaker 3: Like here we are on a billboard. We're doing it today. 249 00:11:47,559 --> 00:11:50,480 Speaker 1: You might not want to do it, but eventually you're 250 00:11:50,480 --> 00:11:52,240 Speaker 1: going to see that you can get involved in this 251 00:11:52,320 --> 00:11:54,040 Speaker 1: and it's okay, and you can go to the beach 252 00:11:54,080 --> 00:11:56,040 Speaker 1: and have a servissa. Someone is going to know what 253 00:11:56,080 --> 00:11:57,880 Speaker 1: it is. So I think that was the driving force 254 00:11:57,920 --> 00:11:59,160 Speaker 1: behind it, and it still is now. 255 00:11:59,559 --> 00:12:02,240 Speaker 2: Yeah, it's so cool. It's like literally a world changing 256 00:12:02,280 --> 00:12:05,600 Speaker 2: movement at this point, which is amazing. So congratulations. You 257 00:12:05,679 --> 00:12:07,160 Speaker 2: kind of touched on this, but I want to talk 258 00:12:07,200 --> 00:12:10,240 Speaker 2: a little bit more about community because of course that 259 00:12:10,320 --> 00:12:12,080 Speaker 2: is a big part of get your Skin out, but 260 00:12:12,600 --> 00:12:16,520 Speaker 2: you have also built your own community online. What has 261 00:12:16,600 --> 00:12:20,000 Speaker 2: having that kind of community meant to you personally? 262 00:12:20,840 --> 00:12:22,920 Speaker 3: It's been such a good support system. 263 00:12:23,160 --> 00:12:26,840 Speaker 1: I think the reason why I started was to share 264 00:12:26,880 --> 00:12:29,520 Speaker 1: what I was learning, but also to find other people 265 00:12:29,559 --> 00:12:31,040 Speaker 1: that kind of were going through it the way that 266 00:12:31,120 --> 00:12:35,560 Speaker 1: I was. And it can be quite an isolating condition, 267 00:12:36,600 --> 00:12:39,400 Speaker 1: and so if I was finding one two other people 268 00:12:39,400 --> 00:12:41,079 Speaker 1: that were living with what I was living with, then 269 00:12:41,240 --> 00:12:43,880 Speaker 1: you know you're not alone. The community built quite quickly, 270 00:12:44,120 --> 00:12:45,800 Speaker 1: so I was like, this is great, and I've got 271 00:12:45,840 --> 00:12:46,440 Speaker 1: loads of friends. 272 00:12:46,440 --> 00:12:46,560 Speaker 3: Now. 273 00:12:47,280 --> 00:12:49,199 Speaker 1: A lot does happen behind the scenes, and a lot 274 00:12:49,240 --> 00:12:51,480 Speaker 1: happens in the DMS, and I think that's a really 275 00:12:51,520 --> 00:12:55,040 Speaker 1: important part because the way that I approached the risis, 276 00:12:55,040 --> 00:12:56,720 Speaker 1: in the way that I put it out into the community. 277 00:12:56,920 --> 00:13:00,000 Speaker 1: I am very comfortable and confident with having it because 278 00:13:00,000 --> 00:13:03,520 Speaker 1: I've had it for thirty five years, so it's. 279 00:13:03,400 --> 00:13:06,160 Speaker 3: Not a new conversation for me. But the community has. 280 00:13:06,080 --> 00:13:08,959 Speaker 1: Like a whole host of people who have either just 281 00:13:09,000 --> 00:13:10,600 Speaker 1: had it or they've always lived with it but been 282 00:13:10,720 --> 00:13:13,000 Speaker 1: too a shame to even talk about it. 283 00:13:13,080 --> 00:13:15,560 Speaker 3: And there's something so special in. 284 00:13:15,559 --> 00:13:19,200 Speaker 1: Creating a place where whether you are two days in 285 00:13:19,600 --> 00:13:22,880 Speaker 1: or thirty five years in, you can breathe and you 286 00:13:22,880 --> 00:13:24,880 Speaker 1: can be like, oh, Okay, you just get it and 287 00:13:25,840 --> 00:13:29,120 Speaker 1: I need particular advice on this area, or I just 288 00:13:29,320 --> 00:13:32,840 Speaker 1: need to share a bad day in this area, and 289 00:13:32,920 --> 00:13:34,319 Speaker 1: it's yeah, it's really special. 290 00:13:34,960 --> 00:13:39,000 Speaker 2: You also had some really impressive foundational support from your family, 291 00:13:39,360 --> 00:13:41,360 Speaker 2: and you've said before that your parents always told you 292 00:13:41,440 --> 00:13:44,560 Speaker 2: be aware of your psoriasis, but don't let it consume you, 293 00:13:44,679 --> 00:13:49,200 Speaker 2: which is pretty incredible advice from a parent. How have 294 00:13:49,320 --> 00:13:51,600 Speaker 2: you put that advice into practice in your own life. 295 00:13:52,360 --> 00:13:55,079 Speaker 1: There's a really famous saying, fake it till you make it, 296 00:13:55,600 --> 00:13:58,319 Speaker 1: And it's a journey right every day is a journey. 297 00:13:59,040 --> 00:14:02,240 Speaker 1: I think there's like a kind of bigger perspective. If 298 00:14:02,280 --> 00:14:04,560 Speaker 1: I didn't have CIRISIS, I would have something else that 299 00:14:04,880 --> 00:14:07,440 Speaker 1: was potentially adding to a list of insecurities that I 300 00:14:07,480 --> 00:14:11,320 Speaker 1: have in my day. So quite early on, after this 301 00:14:11,360 --> 00:14:14,120 Speaker 1: women pool incident, after various other things, you can feel 302 00:14:14,160 --> 00:14:16,599 Speaker 1: yourself pulling back, and then you have to make a 303 00:14:16,640 --> 00:14:19,440 Speaker 1: decision is crisis is going to define me? Or am 304 00:14:19,480 --> 00:14:23,160 Speaker 1: I going to define how I live with cirisis. That 305 00:14:23,320 --> 00:14:26,160 Speaker 1: was kind of the thinking. And then I find the 306 00:14:26,160 --> 00:14:30,960 Speaker 1: community and it's almost once I'd created that and I'd said, look, 307 00:14:31,000 --> 00:14:32,920 Speaker 1: I'm going to live confidently with this condition. 308 00:14:33,040 --> 00:14:34,040 Speaker 3: I have to show up every day. 309 00:14:33,960 --> 00:14:35,960 Speaker 1: And do that now because I can't feel like, oh guys, 310 00:14:36,480 --> 00:14:38,840 Speaker 1: I don't feel that way anymore. So there is, to 311 00:14:38,880 --> 00:14:41,280 Speaker 1: an extent, there's an element of faking soil you make it. 312 00:14:41,400 --> 00:14:42,960 Speaker 1: And I do have bad days, That's what I say. 313 00:14:43,000 --> 00:14:45,960 Speaker 1: I don't, but every bad day there's also been a 314 00:14:46,000 --> 00:14:48,520 Speaker 1: good day, and I wouldn't be sat here without it, 315 00:14:48,920 --> 00:14:50,720 Speaker 1: So there is a lot to be grateful for. I 316 00:14:50,720 --> 00:14:52,800 Speaker 1: wouldn't have connected with Holly and all the other people 317 00:14:52,800 --> 00:14:53,560 Speaker 1: in the community. 318 00:14:53,920 --> 00:14:56,000 Speaker 3: So yeah, I just keep faking. So you make it. 319 00:14:56,080 --> 00:14:58,440 Speaker 2: I love it, and now you are, of course also 320 00:14:58,480 --> 00:15:00,720 Speaker 2: a mom who you talked about your little way earlier. 321 00:15:01,280 --> 00:15:05,000 Speaker 2: What were those conversations like initially, when did he start 322 00:15:05,120 --> 00:15:07,760 Speaker 2: to get the discussion of what it was that you 323 00:15:07,920 --> 00:15:10,480 Speaker 2: had and what it meant, and what was like the 324 00:15:10,520 --> 00:15:12,960 Speaker 2: main thing that you really wanted him to understand about it. 325 00:15:13,840 --> 00:15:15,920 Speaker 1: I don't remember at what point it became like a 326 00:15:15,960 --> 00:15:20,360 Speaker 1: specific discussion. He just kind of grew up aware of it. 327 00:15:20,520 --> 00:15:22,880 Speaker 1: And you know, we've had to give it different names 328 00:15:22,960 --> 00:15:25,320 Speaker 1: until he was old enough to understand it's crisis and 329 00:15:25,320 --> 00:15:27,200 Speaker 1: now I can explain what it is on a top 330 00:15:27,200 --> 00:15:29,280 Speaker 1: line level. But he used to call it out cheese, 331 00:15:29,280 --> 00:15:31,520 Speaker 1: and he understood that some days it would be quite sore, 332 00:15:31,640 --> 00:15:33,360 Speaker 1: but it was nothing to worry about. 333 00:15:33,160 --> 00:15:35,440 Speaker 3: Because if he got a cut, I've got the same ouching. 334 00:15:35,520 --> 00:15:36,880 Speaker 3: I'm like, yeah, kind of a bit different. 335 00:15:38,880 --> 00:15:41,720 Speaker 1: The most important thing was to kind of give him 336 00:15:41,960 --> 00:15:45,200 Speaker 1: the language, whether that was like physical language or like 337 00:15:45,320 --> 00:15:50,880 Speaker 1: verbal language, to approach things like kindly and curiously, because 338 00:15:50,960 --> 00:15:52,800 Speaker 1: when I was younger, like, there was a tendency for 339 00:15:52,880 --> 00:15:57,080 Speaker 1: someone to start the curious conversation by saying, ooh, what's that? 340 00:15:57,200 --> 00:16:00,240 Speaker 1: And I'm so triggered by the word ooh yeah, because 341 00:16:00,240 --> 00:16:03,640 Speaker 1: it's like, well, it's not it's orrisis, it's a natural 342 00:16:03,680 --> 00:16:06,240 Speaker 1: thing if you don't really understand. So I think any 343 00:16:06,920 --> 00:16:11,160 Speaker 1: parenting journey and understanding the innocence of a child's mind 344 00:16:11,240 --> 00:16:14,720 Speaker 1: and you are what you teach them. So it was 345 00:16:15,200 --> 00:16:17,840 Speaker 1: really important to tell him mummy's a little bit different, 346 00:16:17,960 --> 00:16:20,280 Speaker 1: but everybody has something that's different and it's something to 347 00:16:20,280 --> 00:16:23,480 Speaker 1: be celebrated. And he's so accepting of that now that 348 00:16:23,640 --> 00:16:26,520 Speaker 1: it's he will see other people and be like, oh my, 349 00:16:26,560 --> 00:16:28,520 Speaker 1: you know, my mummy has something like this, and it's 350 00:16:28,520 --> 00:16:31,520 Speaker 1: such a smile and such a it's so open and 351 00:16:31,560 --> 00:16:34,080 Speaker 1: it's so innocent, like, you know, let me learn, let 352 00:16:34,120 --> 00:16:36,760 Speaker 1: me make you feel better, and let me relate to you. 353 00:16:36,880 --> 00:16:38,360 Speaker 3: So yeah, that was the main thing. 354 00:16:38,520 --> 00:16:41,080 Speaker 2: That's incredible, Leanne. I know you've said that you're shy 355 00:16:41,120 --> 00:16:42,640 Speaker 2: and you don't really like to be in public, but 356 00:16:42,920 --> 00:16:45,680 Speaker 2: you are an absolute gem and you are a great communicator. 357 00:16:45,840 --> 00:16:48,840 Speaker 2: So thank you so much for sharing your story. We 358 00:16:49,040 --> 00:16:50,880 Speaker 2: are going to take a step back in time and 359 00:16:50,920 --> 00:16:54,680 Speaker 2: we will dive into a really astonishing partnership between a 360 00:16:54,760 --> 00:16:57,520 Speaker 2: musician who needed a solution to save his hands and 361 00:16:57,600 --> 00:17:00,440 Speaker 2: the company that made that solution possible. Do that in 362 00:17:00,480 --> 00:17:16,000 Speaker 2: just a minute, All right, are you ready for some 363 00:17:16,160 --> 00:17:20,439 Speaker 2: history talk? So Josh White, the hero of our story, 364 00:17:20,520 --> 00:17:24,200 Speaker 2: was born on February eleventh, nineteen fourteen, in Greenville, South Carolina, 365 00:17:24,320 --> 00:17:26,920 Speaker 2: and he did not have an easy start in life. 366 00:17:27,520 --> 00:17:30,399 Speaker 2: First of all, this was, of course, firmly in the 367 00:17:30,440 --> 00:17:34,119 Speaker 2: era of Jim Crow racism, and the White family was black. 368 00:17:34,800 --> 00:17:37,879 Speaker 2: His father was institutionalized, and he was still very very young, 369 00:17:38,400 --> 00:17:41,200 Speaker 2: and kind of to help make ends meet, Josh fell 370 00:17:41,240 --> 00:17:45,600 Speaker 2: into this work guiding blind street musicians all across the South. 371 00:17:45,800 --> 00:17:49,080 Speaker 2: And while he was doing this job, he picked up 372 00:17:49,119 --> 00:17:51,440 Speaker 2: some guitar skills on his travels, and it turned out 373 00:17:52,080 --> 00:17:55,439 Speaker 2: that Josh was a really great musician, and so by 374 00:17:55,520 --> 00:17:58,640 Speaker 2: his early teens he was already making music history. He 375 00:17:58,760 --> 00:18:02,600 Speaker 2: worked primarily along side musician that was very well known 376 00:18:02,640 --> 00:18:05,240 Speaker 2: named Blind Joe Taggert, and he became one of the 377 00:18:05,280 --> 00:18:10,439 Speaker 2: youngest black session artists ever recorded in history. At the time, 378 00:18:11,240 --> 00:18:15,119 Speaker 2: Josh was primarily performing things like religious and gospel music, 379 00:18:15,400 --> 00:18:18,919 Speaker 2: along with some very secular blues, but his range was 380 00:18:19,000 --> 00:18:22,280 Speaker 2: really really vast. Later, he ended up on Broadway in 381 00:18:22,320 --> 00:18:25,400 Speaker 2: a nineteen forty production of John Henry with Paul Robison, 382 00:18:25,800 --> 00:18:30,080 Speaker 2: who just ten years before that had broken centuries of 383 00:18:30,119 --> 00:18:34,160 Speaker 2: tradition by becoming the first black performer to play Othello, 384 00:18:34,840 --> 00:18:37,520 Speaker 2: a part written as a black man in London. It 385 00:18:37,600 --> 00:18:40,399 Speaker 2: ran for almost three hundred performances. But all of this 386 00:18:40,560 --> 00:18:43,800 Speaker 2: history making was really just the beginning of Josh's story, 387 00:18:43,880 --> 00:18:47,440 Speaker 2: because in nineteen forty four, when he was thirty, White's 388 00:18:47,480 --> 00:18:51,080 Speaker 2: rendition of a song called One Meatball became a major 389 00:18:51,160 --> 00:18:54,399 Speaker 2: commercial success. It made him one of the first blackmail 390 00:18:54,520 --> 00:18:57,600 Speaker 2: artists to sell more than a million records. And to 391 00:18:57,720 --> 00:19:01,080 Speaker 2: just describe this song, one Meatball, you can listen to it. 392 00:19:01,080 --> 00:19:04,240 Speaker 2: It's so easy to find online, and it's a humorous 393 00:19:04,320 --> 00:19:07,399 Speaker 2: ballad about a very poor man who has fifteen cents 394 00:19:07,720 --> 00:19:09,679 Speaker 2: and he's in a restaurant and all he can afford 395 00:19:09,680 --> 00:19:12,840 Speaker 2: to order is one meatball. There's a great refrain where 396 00:19:12,880 --> 00:19:16,119 Speaker 2: it's like one meatball, no spaghetti, and I love it. 397 00:19:16,119 --> 00:19:19,000 Speaker 2: It's so good, ironically, since pasta is much cheaper than meat. 398 00:19:19,040 --> 00:19:22,840 Speaker 2: But that's a whole nother story. One Meatball, Liam, I 399 00:19:22,880 --> 00:19:24,600 Speaker 2: would sing the blues. I need more than that. 400 00:19:25,160 --> 00:19:26,240 Speaker 3: I would take the spaghetti. 401 00:19:28,480 --> 00:19:30,920 Speaker 2: She's like, I'll take the spaghetti her fifteen cents will 402 00:19:30,960 --> 00:19:33,120 Speaker 2: buy it, so me, it's not good for the risis, right, 403 00:19:34,240 --> 00:19:37,040 Speaker 2: this is good advice. But here's the thing. This wasn't 404 00:19:37,080 --> 00:19:39,360 Speaker 2: just a hit song that's very catchy, although it is that. 405 00:19:39,800 --> 00:19:43,040 Speaker 2: It was also a huge breakthrough because it shattered barriers 406 00:19:43,080 --> 00:19:46,520 Speaker 2: in an industry where that kind of recognition was very 407 00:19:46,640 --> 00:19:49,520 Speaker 2: rarely given to black musicians. So I want to take 408 00:19:49,560 --> 00:19:51,840 Speaker 2: us back for a moment to the music industry in 409 00:19:51,880 --> 00:19:56,080 Speaker 2: nineteen forty four. At this point, recording studios and musicians 410 00:19:56,160 --> 00:20:01,479 Speaker 2: unions are all segregated. Radio is almost entirely white. Black 411 00:20:01,680 --> 00:20:05,399 Speaker 2: artists that did get to record were restricted to selling 412 00:20:05,400 --> 00:20:09,000 Speaker 2: what were called race records. That basically meant that only 413 00:20:09,880 --> 00:20:13,400 Speaker 2: black customers were marketed to. With those, they certainly did 414 00:20:13,400 --> 00:20:16,200 Speaker 2: not get airplay, which of course is the way we 415 00:20:16,240 --> 00:20:19,520 Speaker 2: all know that music gets sold and makes money and 416 00:20:19,520 --> 00:20:22,600 Speaker 2: gets attention. That was your pathway to having a hit song. 417 00:20:22,960 --> 00:20:25,720 Speaker 2: So the question arises of how did Josh manage to 418 00:20:25,760 --> 00:20:28,359 Speaker 2: do this? How did he break through? And this is 419 00:20:28,720 --> 00:20:30,320 Speaker 2: my favorite part of his story, or one of my 420 00:20:30,320 --> 00:20:32,520 Speaker 2: favorite parts of his story. I have a lot It 421 00:20:32,720 --> 00:20:35,359 Speaker 2: was something that was called Cafe Society, and it was 422 00:20:35,400 --> 00:20:39,840 Speaker 2: a nightclub, and Josh shared the stage there with music icons, 423 00:20:39,880 --> 00:20:43,119 Speaker 2: so we're talking Billie Holliday and Lena Horn. Some of 424 00:20:43,119 --> 00:20:46,359 Speaker 2: them sang their most iconic songs there for the first time. 425 00:20:46,840 --> 00:20:49,119 Speaker 2: And this place was really really special because it was 426 00:20:49,200 --> 00:20:52,399 Speaker 2: located in a white neighborhood here in New York Greenwich Village. 427 00:20:52,800 --> 00:20:56,000 Speaker 2: It was actually on Sheridan Square in the West Village. 428 00:20:56,480 --> 00:20:59,880 Speaker 2: It is widely recognized today as the first integrated nightclub, 429 00:21:00,000 --> 00:21:02,320 Speaker 2: and I say that today, but it was purpose built 430 00:21:02,359 --> 00:21:04,840 Speaker 2: to be that at the time as well. So at 431 00:21:04,840 --> 00:21:07,840 Speaker 2: this point, black performers had of course been performing for 432 00:21:08,640 --> 00:21:11,120 Speaker 2: white audiences, but it tended to be either a white 433 00:21:11,160 --> 00:21:14,439 Speaker 2: audience or a black audience. The audience was not mixed 434 00:21:14,480 --> 00:21:18,959 Speaker 2: ever in the US until Cafe Society, and then both 435 00:21:19,080 --> 00:21:22,399 Speaker 2: the lineup of musicians was mixed and the audience was integrated. 436 00:21:22,880 --> 00:21:25,399 Speaker 2: Had you ever heard of Cafe Society before? It sounds 437 00:21:25,440 --> 00:21:27,720 Speaker 2: like a very cool spot, and it really was an 438 00:21:27,760 --> 00:21:31,560 Speaker 2: interesting thing. There's a little bit of a historical jab 439 00:21:31,600 --> 00:21:33,919 Speaker 2: at another person in its setup. So the owner of 440 00:21:33,920 --> 00:21:37,280 Speaker 2: Cafe Society was this man named Barney Josephson. He was 441 00:21:37,320 --> 00:21:39,440 Speaker 2: the youngest of six kids in a lot via the 442 00:21:39,440 --> 00:21:42,520 Speaker 2: American family, and he didn't know anything about restaurants or 443 00:21:42,520 --> 00:21:46,440 Speaker 2: hospitality when he started Cafe Society. His previous experience was 444 00:21:46,480 --> 00:21:53,000 Speaker 2: all in shoe stores. But he loved jazz and he 445 00:21:53,040 --> 00:21:55,119 Speaker 2: would go to jazz clubs all over New York. He 446 00:21:55,160 --> 00:21:57,480 Speaker 2: often went to the Cotton Club, and what he noticed 447 00:21:58,000 --> 00:22:00,399 Speaker 2: was that there was this racial disparity going on and 448 00:22:00,440 --> 00:22:03,160 Speaker 2: that some of the best musicians were not getting seen 449 00:22:03,200 --> 00:22:06,439 Speaker 2: by anybody because even in clubs in Harlem, like the 450 00:22:06,440 --> 00:22:09,320 Speaker 2: Cotton Club, they had to be relegated to like the 451 00:22:09,400 --> 00:22:11,800 Speaker 2: back part of the club. And so he was like, 452 00:22:11,880 --> 00:22:14,080 Speaker 2: I need to bring these people in front of more 453 00:22:14,119 --> 00:22:17,359 Speaker 2: eyes and an integrated audience. But this is the Jab. 454 00:22:17,600 --> 00:22:20,480 Speaker 2: So at the time, Claire Booth, loose well known writer, 455 00:22:20,920 --> 00:22:24,400 Speaker 2: had coined the term cafe society to talk about fancy 456 00:22:24,400 --> 00:22:28,520 Speaker 2: pants people who had a higher esthetic understanding and they 457 00:22:28,560 --> 00:22:31,119 Speaker 2: would go to cafes and that was cafe society. And 458 00:22:31,160 --> 00:22:33,800 Speaker 2: he's like, no, I'm calling my bar cafe Society, and 459 00:22:33,880 --> 00:22:36,920 Speaker 2: anybody can come and it's not about high falutin anything. 460 00:22:37,080 --> 00:22:39,480 Speaker 2: Everybody's welcome, which is pretty amazing. If you're going to 461 00:22:39,560 --> 00:22:42,280 Speaker 2: insult somebody, do it with purpose. And this place was 462 00:22:42,280 --> 00:22:45,560 Speaker 2: a huge hit. Barney's music advisor and his talent scout, 463 00:22:45,560 --> 00:22:48,840 Speaker 2: who is named John Hammond, introduced Josh to Barney and 464 00:22:48,920 --> 00:22:51,240 Speaker 2: they hit it off. This is kind of a cute 465 00:22:51,320 --> 00:22:54,280 Speaker 2: story as well, because Barney had some notes for Josh 466 00:22:54,520 --> 00:22:58,600 Speaker 2: because even though his Cafe Society was open to everyone, 467 00:22:58,920 --> 00:23:02,320 Speaker 2: he recognized that the patrons there had a very sophisticated 468 00:23:02,400 --> 00:23:04,760 Speaker 2: understanding of what was and was not good music. So 469 00:23:05,560 --> 00:23:07,760 Speaker 2: he was like, you have to play to my audience. 470 00:23:07,880 --> 00:23:11,879 Speaker 2: And so that demure nice boy that was doing gospel 471 00:23:11,960 --> 00:23:15,400 Speaker 2: in a press suit gone. Now Josh started wearing this 472 00:23:15,560 --> 00:23:18,360 Speaker 2: black velvet shirt that was unbuttoned all the way down 473 00:23:18,400 --> 00:23:21,600 Speaker 2: to his belly button and silk slacks. He was definitely 474 00:23:21,600 --> 00:23:24,639 Speaker 2: getting his skin out. That is a nightclub outfit, and 475 00:23:24,680 --> 00:23:26,120 Speaker 2: it actually became his signature. 476 00:23:26,160 --> 00:23:26,320 Speaker 3: Look. 477 00:23:26,359 --> 00:23:28,560 Speaker 2: That's what he was known for when he performed at 478 00:23:28,600 --> 00:23:32,000 Speaker 2: Cafe Society for years as a solo act, until of 479 00:23:32,000 --> 00:23:35,040 Speaker 2: course nineteen forty four when the Amazing one Meatball hit 480 00:23:35,680 --> 00:23:40,120 Speaker 2: and then he started transitioning to national and international tours. 481 00:23:40,840 --> 00:23:43,639 Speaker 2: He was just not an entertainer though, because he was 482 00:23:43,680 --> 00:23:46,600 Speaker 2: also a voice for change. He became known as a 483 00:23:46,680 --> 00:23:51,720 Speaker 2: powerful protest singer. He sang songs that addressed labor issues, 484 00:23:52,119 --> 00:23:56,520 Speaker 2: housing inequality, racism. He used his voice for good and 485 00:23:56,560 --> 00:23:57,959 Speaker 2: a lot of these songs were written by a man 486 00:23:58,000 --> 00:24:00,240 Speaker 2: named Bob Miller. If you know a lot about folk 487 00:24:00,320 --> 00:24:02,959 Speaker 2: music and protest music, you know his name. He was 488 00:24:03,200 --> 00:24:06,600 Speaker 2: very outwardly and publicly a leftist, and some of these 489 00:24:06,600 --> 00:24:10,240 Speaker 2: songs were so provocative that white radio stations, particularly in 490 00:24:10,280 --> 00:24:12,920 Speaker 2: the Deep South, refused to play them because they thought 491 00:24:12,920 --> 00:24:15,400 Speaker 2: they were in sandiary. How dare you ask for fair 492 00:24:15,480 --> 00:24:19,040 Speaker 2: labor wages? Then, of course, during the McCarthy era, this 493 00:24:19,119 --> 00:24:22,720 Speaker 2: activism and being associated with leftists came at a price 494 00:24:22,720 --> 00:24:26,080 Speaker 2: for Josh. He was blacklisted and that pretty much put 495 00:24:26,080 --> 00:24:28,320 Speaker 2: an end to his career as far as a performer. 496 00:24:28,400 --> 00:24:31,199 Speaker 2: But he was very smart he found his way around it. 497 00:24:31,280 --> 00:24:34,119 Speaker 2: So even in the face of this sort of public persecution, 498 00:24:34,880 --> 00:24:38,200 Speaker 2: he influenced music through a couple of instructional works. One 499 00:24:38,200 --> 00:24:41,359 Speaker 2: of them was the Josh White Guitar Method. You're a Guitarist, 500 00:24:41,359 --> 00:24:44,199 Speaker 2: You've heard of this before. It's considered the first blues 501 00:24:44,240 --> 00:24:48,000 Speaker 2: guitar instruction book ever. And then his next venture, which 502 00:24:48,040 --> 00:24:50,520 Speaker 2: was the Josh White Songbook, was also a huge hit, 503 00:24:51,080 --> 00:24:54,679 Speaker 2: and these publications helped shape the folk revival both in 504 00:24:54,720 --> 00:24:57,399 Speaker 2: the US and the UK. Do you ever listen to 505 00:24:57,400 --> 00:24:58,000 Speaker 2: folk music? 506 00:24:58,200 --> 00:24:58,280 Speaker 3: No? 507 00:24:58,400 --> 00:25:02,280 Speaker 2: Really, I guarantee they all listen to Josh White. But 508 00:25:02,359 --> 00:25:04,520 Speaker 2: this is where our story kind of takes a dramatic turn, 509 00:25:04,800 --> 00:25:07,080 Speaker 2: because in nineteen sixty one, he was just forty seven 510 00:25:07,160 --> 00:25:10,639 Speaker 2: years old, White's body really started to fail him in 511 00:25:10,680 --> 00:25:14,280 Speaker 2: a variety of ways. So he actually suffered multiple heart attacks, 512 00:25:14,840 --> 00:25:18,400 Speaker 2: he was diagnosed with progressive heart disease, he had chronic emphysema, 513 00:25:18,440 --> 00:25:21,439 Speaker 2: and he had ulcers, the whole bag of stuff. But 514 00:25:21,560 --> 00:25:24,840 Speaker 2: perhaps most devastating for a guitarist was the fact that 515 00:25:24,880 --> 00:25:29,760 Speaker 2: he developed severe psoriasis that attacked his hands. This is 516 00:25:29,800 --> 00:25:32,119 Speaker 2: going to sound so familiar to you because it caused 517 00:25:32,119 --> 00:25:36,600 Speaker 2: painful peeling and devastating nail damage. So trying to do 518 00:25:36,640 --> 00:25:39,959 Speaker 2: anything with nails that are coming off and cracked is 519 00:25:40,359 --> 00:25:43,679 Speaker 2: very painful. Now imagine doing that playing blues guitar and 520 00:25:43,680 --> 00:25:46,720 Speaker 2: trying to get through a concert. So basically just had 521 00:25:46,760 --> 00:25:49,160 Speaker 2: hands that were a bloody mess after every time he performed. 522 00:25:49,480 --> 00:25:51,680 Speaker 2: And this wasn't, of course, just discomfort, as I'm sure 523 00:25:51,680 --> 00:25:54,880 Speaker 2: you know, it was agonizing. Can you imagine what that's 524 00:25:54,920 --> 00:25:56,199 Speaker 2: like as a performer, it. 525 00:25:56,240 --> 00:25:59,439 Speaker 3: Must have been like a cheese great to Yeah, at 526 00:25:59,440 --> 00:25:59,960 Speaker 3: the end of you. 527 00:26:00,280 --> 00:26:02,840 Speaker 2: Is like I feel like every time I've mucked around 528 00:26:02,840 --> 00:26:04,800 Speaker 2: with the guitar, which is not much. I have no skills, 529 00:26:04,840 --> 00:26:07,720 Speaker 2: but like they hurt my little Lily White delicate hand. 530 00:26:07,760 --> 00:26:10,880 Speaker 1: Well it helps me just tell you says, yes, there's 531 00:26:10,920 --> 00:26:13,159 Speaker 1: the physical aspect, but it must have been so frustrating 532 00:26:13,400 --> 00:26:16,359 Speaker 1: because it's then holding back from doing something that he loves, 533 00:26:16,359 --> 00:26:19,879 Speaker 1: which I imagine, you know, if he was stubborn like 534 00:26:19,960 --> 00:26:20,359 Speaker 1: I can be. 535 00:26:20,560 --> 00:26:22,159 Speaker 3: It's like one and this is not going to stop me. 536 00:26:22,480 --> 00:26:23,240 Speaker 3: You make it worse. 537 00:26:23,320 --> 00:26:25,560 Speaker 2: And then it's also your livelihood on the line, so 538 00:26:25,600 --> 00:26:29,600 Speaker 2: that's an added stressor which can cause flairs. White's manager 539 00:26:29,680 --> 00:26:33,600 Speaker 2: Lenn Rosenfeld actually noted in interviews that starting in the 540 00:26:33,640 --> 00:26:38,040 Speaker 2: early nineteen fifties, White's performances increasingly required a lot of 541 00:26:38,080 --> 00:26:42,240 Speaker 2: pain mitigation, and this really underscores how debilitating this condition 542 00:26:42,359 --> 00:26:46,560 Speaker 2: had become foreign artist whose livelihood depended entirely on his fingers. 543 00:26:47,520 --> 00:26:50,480 Speaker 2: In the mid nineteen sixties, White's ability to play guitar 544 00:26:50,600 --> 00:26:54,520 Speaker 2: was seriously deteriorated and looking really dicey. There was this 545 00:26:54,720 --> 00:26:59,160 Speaker 2: incredible collaboration that started with a company called Ovation Guitars 546 00:27:00,560 --> 00:27:03,679 Speaker 2: was a musical venture that spun out of Cayman Aircraft 547 00:27:03,960 --> 00:27:07,080 Speaker 2: that was named for the engineer, Chris Caman. He was 548 00:27:07,200 --> 00:27:11,159 Speaker 2: himself an accomplished guitarist and he also loved music, and 549 00:27:11,280 --> 00:27:14,960 Speaker 2: he started Ovation signature guitar that had a design that 550 00:27:15,000 --> 00:27:18,320 Speaker 2: featured this parabolic round back body that was made from 551 00:27:18,760 --> 00:27:22,720 Speaker 2: ly record, which is a synthetic aerospace derived composite. It's 552 00:27:22,800 --> 00:27:27,560 Speaker 2: engineered for projection and resonance. When an aerospace engineer decides 553 00:27:27,600 --> 00:27:30,719 Speaker 2: to address music, you get really cool things. And so, 554 00:27:30,960 --> 00:27:35,400 Speaker 2: according to both the Ovation original program and Ovation's archival histories, 555 00:27:35,920 --> 00:27:39,840 Speaker 2: White actually sought help from Ovation when his psoriasis made 556 00:27:39,840 --> 00:27:43,919 Speaker 2: it almost impossible to play guitar. So he described what 557 00:27:44,040 --> 00:27:47,320 Speaker 2: he was going through, this potentially career ending pain. A 558 00:27:47,440 --> 00:27:50,159 Speaker 2: unique scenario for someone to have to self advocate, not 559 00:27:50,240 --> 00:27:52,600 Speaker 2: quite like going to a doctor. But this is a 560 00:27:52,600 --> 00:27:55,520 Speaker 2: weird thing because you talk about how people don't hear 561 00:27:55,560 --> 00:27:58,240 Speaker 2: you or understand, and in this case, all of these 562 00:27:58,240 --> 00:28:01,120 Speaker 2: engineers were like, all right, how do we solve this problem? 563 00:28:01,200 --> 00:28:04,240 Speaker 2: Which is pretty impressive, and the solution that emerged was 564 00:28:04,400 --> 00:28:09,360 Speaker 2: seriously ingenious Ovation's subassembly foreman, a man named al Gleambowski, 565 00:28:10,080 --> 00:28:13,240 Speaker 2: made a cast of White's hands and fingers, and he 566 00:28:13,280 --> 00:28:19,040 Speaker 2: produced fiberglass prosthetic nails. So these artificial nails were glued 567 00:28:19,080 --> 00:28:21,560 Speaker 2: on with an adhesive that at the time was known 568 00:28:21,560 --> 00:28:24,919 Speaker 2: as Eastman nine ten. Today we know it as super glue. 569 00:28:25,520 --> 00:28:28,160 Speaker 2: So White actually started going back to this factory once 570 00:28:28,240 --> 00:28:30,399 Speaker 2: every couple of months to get his new nails put on, 571 00:28:30,840 --> 00:28:33,320 Speaker 2: and this really enabled him to continue his career. He 572 00:28:33,359 --> 00:28:36,040 Speaker 2: got to keep touring and recording even though he had 573 00:28:36,080 --> 00:28:40,880 Speaker 2: this condition. And in case you were wondering, commercially available 574 00:28:40,880 --> 00:28:43,320 Speaker 2: press on nails did come out around this same time. 575 00:28:43,960 --> 00:28:48,040 Speaker 2: Although like don't don't use superglue, don't son only under 576 00:28:48,040 --> 00:28:52,440 Speaker 2: an engineer's supervision. You are a manicure gal. I can't 577 00:28:52,480 --> 00:28:54,800 Speaker 2: imagine trying to strumic guitar with nails that were not 578 00:28:54,800 --> 00:28:57,600 Speaker 2: firmly attached to my hand. Thus the super glue has 579 00:28:57,600 --> 00:28:59,720 Speaker 2: that ever helped you to put on nails when your 580 00:28:59,800 --> 00:29:03,120 Speaker 2: nail dicey? Or is it a calculation because I know 581 00:29:03,160 --> 00:29:04,480 Speaker 2: you said it can actually harm them. 582 00:29:05,680 --> 00:29:08,200 Speaker 1: The tricky galance between what I want to look good 583 00:29:08,280 --> 00:29:10,760 Speaker 1: and what I want to feel good, so we'll see. 584 00:29:10,800 --> 00:29:13,200 Speaker 1: I imagine sticking those on and him trying to play 585 00:29:13,200 --> 00:29:15,600 Speaker 1: with a real adjustment as well, though, because you're not 586 00:29:15,640 --> 00:29:16,600 Speaker 1: going to have the same feeling. 587 00:29:16,720 --> 00:29:20,120 Speaker 2: Their collaboration did not stop there, though, because he inspired 588 00:29:20,160 --> 00:29:22,960 Speaker 2: them in turn, and from nineteen sixty six to nineteen 589 00:29:22,960 --> 00:29:26,800 Speaker 2: sixty seven, Ovation created a guitar called the Josh White Model. 590 00:29:27,080 --> 00:29:29,760 Speaker 2: It was their first signature guitar, and it was the 591 00:29:29,760 --> 00:29:33,600 Speaker 2: first ever signature instrument made by a US company for 592 00:29:33,720 --> 00:29:36,840 Speaker 2: a black artist. So think about that. This was nineteen 593 00:29:36,880 --> 00:29:39,520 Speaker 2: sixty six before we got any such thing, and in 594 00:29:39,520 --> 00:29:42,400 Speaker 2: an era when black artists and black musicians were still 595 00:29:42,440 --> 00:29:48,120 Speaker 2: facing enormous barriers of recognition. This collaboration wasn't just cool. 596 00:29:48,160 --> 00:29:51,360 Speaker 2: It carried a lot of profound symbolic weight. And the 597 00:29:51,400 --> 00:29:54,560 Speaker 2: official debut of these guitars was like an event. It 598 00:29:54,600 --> 00:29:58,000 Speaker 2: was spectacular. On November fourteenth, nineteen sixty six, at the 599 00:29:58,040 --> 00:30:02,320 Speaker 2: Hotel America in Hartford, Connecticut, about three hundred press and 600 00:30:02,400 --> 00:30:05,800 Speaker 2: industry representatives all showed up. They gathered to witness history. 601 00:30:06,280 --> 00:30:08,960 Speaker 2: White appeared. He played for thirty minutes, so they got 602 00:30:09,000 --> 00:30:13,320 Speaker 2: like the coolest private concert ever and displayed this instrument's clarity, 603 00:30:13,360 --> 00:30:17,320 Speaker 2: its projection, its sustained, that's resonance. And then he finished 604 00:30:17,360 --> 00:30:20,240 Speaker 2: with a really special performance. His two daughters came and 605 00:30:20,280 --> 00:30:22,440 Speaker 2: joined him and they did a song together which is 606 00:30:22,520 --> 00:30:25,640 Speaker 2: very very sweet. And this partnership between Josh and Ovation 607 00:30:25,760 --> 00:30:29,200 Speaker 2: Guitars was just such a win win. Obviously it benefited Josh, 608 00:30:29,200 --> 00:30:32,840 Speaker 2: but the collaboration also benefited them because to have the 609 00:30:32,840 --> 00:30:36,560 Speaker 2: world's greatest guitarist bring visibility to your roundback design, which 610 00:30:36,600 --> 00:30:39,320 Speaker 2: was an emerging technology, is not a bad way to 611 00:30:39,400 --> 00:30:42,560 Speaker 2: kick off a launch. And with this new guitar, this 612 00:30:42,640 --> 00:30:46,480 Speaker 2: Ovation guitar and his prosthetic fingernails, Josh was back in business. 613 00:30:46,560 --> 00:30:48,920 Speaker 2: His later career was marked by a lot of really 614 00:30:48,960 --> 00:30:52,880 Speaker 2: impressive feats. He made a lot of television appearances that 615 00:30:53,000 --> 00:30:56,640 Speaker 2: really showcased his enduring talent as well as his international appeal. 616 00:30:56,680 --> 00:30:58,840 Speaker 2: He appeared to overseas many times. He was on The 617 00:30:58,920 --> 00:31:02,480 Speaker 2: Murph Griffin Show, on Hugh Hefner's Playboy Penthouse, He was 618 00:31:02,480 --> 00:31:04,120 Speaker 2: on a show called Hooton Nanny that used to be 619 00:31:04,160 --> 00:31:07,080 Speaker 2: really popular, as well as others. He also starred in 620 00:31:07,160 --> 00:31:11,040 Speaker 2: a concert special for national Swedish television in nineteen sixty 621 00:31:11,080 --> 00:31:13,680 Speaker 2: two and then In nineteen sixty five, he starred on 622 00:31:13,720 --> 00:31:17,000 Speaker 2: the ITV network special which was called Heart Song Josh 623 00:31:17,000 --> 00:31:20,280 Speaker 2: White in the United Kingdom with guest artist Julie Felix 624 00:31:20,640 --> 00:31:23,920 Speaker 2: and Alexis Comer. So he was in your home zone 625 00:31:24,320 --> 00:31:26,800 Speaker 2: for a bit. He has a number of things that 626 00:31:26,840 --> 00:31:29,680 Speaker 2: go wrong after this. He had an automobile accident in 627 00:31:29,760 --> 00:31:32,880 Speaker 2: nineteen sixty six, but he did recover and he did 628 00:31:32,920 --> 00:31:35,000 Speaker 2: appear as a guest star in nineteen sixty seven on 629 00:31:35,080 --> 00:31:39,840 Speaker 2: Canada's CBCTV program Let's Sing Out with Oscar Brand. These 630 00:31:39,880 --> 00:31:43,160 Speaker 2: appearances really showed that even though his health was not great, 631 00:31:43,680 --> 00:31:47,120 Speaker 2: his voice, his skill as a performer, and just this 632 00:31:47,200 --> 00:31:50,120 Speaker 2: magnetic presence he had really remained as powerful as ever. 633 00:31:50,960 --> 00:31:53,640 Speaker 2: His final appearance was in May of nineteen sixty nine 634 00:31:53,680 --> 00:31:56,800 Speaker 2: on the Canadian TV show One More Time, and just 635 00:31:56,840 --> 00:31:59,120 Speaker 2: a few months after that last performance, which was on 636 00:31:59,160 --> 00:32:02,840 Speaker 2: September fifth, sixty nine, he died while he was having 637 00:32:02,840 --> 00:32:07,040 Speaker 2: surgery for heart valve replacement in a Manhasset, Long Island hospital. 638 00:32:07,080 --> 00:32:10,720 Speaker 2: He was only fifty four. I'm fifty four. That's troubling, 639 00:32:11,320 --> 00:32:15,760 Speaker 2: But like what he did for music, even if you 640 00:32:15,760 --> 00:32:17,840 Speaker 2: don't know his name, you have enjoyed his legacy in 641 00:32:17,880 --> 00:32:21,320 Speaker 2: a variety of ways. The ripple effects of his life 642 00:32:21,560 --> 00:32:24,160 Speaker 2: they still linger. He had a huge influence in the 643 00:32:24,280 --> 00:32:28,240 Speaker 2: UK and in the US on folk revival. So people 644 00:32:28,320 --> 00:32:32,320 Speaker 2: like Pete Seeger, Joan Bias, Bob Dylan Odetta, Stefan Grossman, 645 00:32:32,640 --> 00:32:36,240 Speaker 2: John Renbourn, all of them have acknowledged Josh White and 646 00:32:36,440 --> 00:32:40,640 Speaker 2: his instructional works and style as being significant influences. And 647 00:32:40,720 --> 00:32:43,920 Speaker 2: he really adapted within the bounds of his psoriasis so 648 00:32:44,000 --> 00:32:46,720 Speaker 2: he could keep doing this thing that he loved. And 649 00:32:46,760 --> 00:32:50,880 Speaker 2: his collaboration with ovation presents us with this really beautiful story, right, 650 00:32:50,920 --> 00:32:56,040 Speaker 2: a celebrated artist confronting a debilitating condition, finding the right 651 00:32:56,080 --> 00:32:59,080 Speaker 2: people who would listen, people who paid attention, and then 652 00:32:59,120 --> 00:33:01,840 Speaker 2: put all of their heart, art and expertise and intellect 653 00:33:02,280 --> 00:33:05,440 Speaker 2: into finding a solution for his siasis, pain and discomfort. 654 00:33:05,880 --> 00:33:08,040 Speaker 2: But here's the thing. This is a very feel good story, 655 00:33:08,360 --> 00:33:11,400 Speaker 2: but Josh assoriasis was not being treated by all of this. 656 00:33:11,760 --> 00:33:14,480 Speaker 2: They had found a way through, but he still really 657 00:33:14,560 --> 00:33:17,680 Speaker 2: was dealing with a lot of rough times in terms 658 00:33:17,680 --> 00:33:21,880 Speaker 2: of what treatment and relief were available in the nineteen sixties. 659 00:33:22,120 --> 00:33:25,360 Speaker 2: The knowledge that sariasis is in fact an autoimmune disorder 660 00:33:25,720 --> 00:33:27,800 Speaker 2: and not just a skin thing that you put cream on. 661 00:33:28,400 --> 00:33:31,280 Speaker 2: Was just coming into focus when Josh died, So it 662 00:33:31,280 --> 00:33:33,120 Speaker 2: would have been a different world for him. If he 663 00:33:33,160 --> 00:33:36,520 Speaker 2: had had access to a lot of the sophisticated medications 664 00:33:36,520 --> 00:33:39,680 Speaker 2: that we have today, like biologics that have been developed since, 665 00:33:40,480 --> 00:33:42,760 Speaker 2: he could have had a completely different career, although it 666 00:33:42,760 --> 00:33:44,920 Speaker 2: wouldn't have worked out for Ovation Guitar maybe as well. 667 00:33:45,280 --> 00:33:47,560 Speaker 2: But on our skin, we know that finding that right 668 00:33:47,600 --> 00:33:50,840 Speaker 2: team to support you, whether that is doctors or your family, 669 00:33:51,440 --> 00:33:54,280 Speaker 2: or a subassembly foreman at a guitar company or an 670 00:33:54,280 --> 00:33:58,440 Speaker 2: online community becomes just incredibly essential. And we need community. 671 00:33:58,520 --> 00:34:01,160 Speaker 2: All of us need community to feel seen, and we 672 00:34:01,160 --> 00:34:03,880 Speaker 2: need to hear each other's stories and to understand that 673 00:34:03,920 --> 00:34:07,160 Speaker 2: we are not alone. That's been something you've talked about 674 00:34:07,200 --> 00:34:10,200 Speaker 2: and literally every single one of our guests has referenced 675 00:34:10,280 --> 00:34:13,160 Speaker 2: that we all need this community. I sure hope Josh 676 00:34:13,160 --> 00:34:17,000 Speaker 2: felt supported. I love this story so much standing Ovation 677 00:34:17,080 --> 00:34:19,920 Speaker 2: to Ovation Guitars. But now we get to pivot back 678 00:34:19,920 --> 00:34:23,239 Speaker 2: to you, Lean because I have two more questions. We 679 00:34:23,280 --> 00:34:25,280 Speaker 2: ask these at the end of all of our shows 680 00:34:25,320 --> 00:34:27,960 Speaker 2: to all of our guests, but it's important and especially 681 00:34:27,960 --> 00:34:31,759 Speaker 2: for people that are new to the siasis community or 682 00:34:31,760 --> 00:34:34,399 Speaker 2: trying to understand it. So the first one is what 683 00:34:34,480 --> 00:34:37,080 Speaker 2: suggestions do you have for people who maybe don't have 684 00:34:37,120 --> 00:34:40,279 Speaker 2: psoriasis themselves, but they love someone who does and they 685 00:34:40,320 --> 00:34:41,640 Speaker 2: want to be helpful and supportive. 686 00:34:42,480 --> 00:34:46,200 Speaker 1: I think stay curious, and there's power in using your 687 00:34:46,280 --> 00:34:48,319 Speaker 1: voice as well. I speak to a lot of people 688 00:34:48,400 --> 00:34:51,279 Speaker 1: that can't always advocate for themselves because they're not at 689 00:34:51,320 --> 00:34:54,200 Speaker 1: that point yet, having a loved one next to them 690 00:34:54,400 --> 00:34:56,239 Speaker 1: or a friend or someone else that can be like, Hey, 691 00:34:56,520 --> 00:34:58,000 Speaker 1: that's crisis, that's what that is. 692 00:34:58,080 --> 00:35:00,280 Speaker 3: That's you know, it's really special to someone. 693 00:35:00,480 --> 00:35:03,239 Speaker 2: I love it. And then, last, but not least, if 694 00:35:03,280 --> 00:35:07,000 Speaker 2: you could send one message to our listeners who may 695 00:35:07,040 --> 00:35:09,920 Speaker 2: be grappling with a new diagnosis of their own, what 696 00:35:09,960 --> 00:35:10,879 Speaker 2: would that message be. 697 00:35:11,400 --> 00:35:14,160 Speaker 1: Well, you're not alone, which was a wonderful thing for 698 00:35:14,200 --> 00:35:16,600 Speaker 1: me to find out. There's a whole community out there 699 00:35:16,760 --> 00:35:19,400 Speaker 1: in whichever way you need it. Wherever you are in 700 00:35:19,440 --> 00:35:22,120 Speaker 1: that journey, there are people ready to put their arms 701 00:35:22,120 --> 00:35:24,920 Speaker 1: around you and tell you it's okay, share information that 702 00:35:24,920 --> 00:35:27,880 Speaker 1: they've learned, share a good day, share a bad day. 703 00:35:28,080 --> 00:35:31,279 Speaker 1: It's whether you want to share your skin or you 704 00:35:31,320 --> 00:35:32,879 Speaker 1: just want to kind of learn about your skin. 705 00:35:33,120 --> 00:35:35,040 Speaker 3: Get online. There's people waiting for you. 706 00:35:35,440 --> 00:35:37,680 Speaker 2: I love it. Le Ane Hunter, you were a delight. 707 00:35:37,840 --> 00:35:40,440 Speaker 2: Thank you again for sharing your story with us today 708 00:35:40,760 --> 00:35:43,400 Speaker 2: and with the world in general in very public ways. 709 00:35:43,520 --> 00:35:45,840 Speaker 2: I know that's not always your comfort zone, but it 710 00:35:45,880 --> 00:35:48,040 Speaker 2: really makes a huge difference, and you are showing everyone 711 00:35:48,080 --> 00:35:50,040 Speaker 2: they are not alone. So thank you, thank you. 712 00:35:50,160 --> 00:35:50,440 Speaker 3: Thanks that. 713 00:35:50,560 --> 00:36:06,239 Speaker 2: All Our Skin is hosted by myself, Holly Frye, and 714 00:36:06,480 --> 00:36:10,800 Speaker 2: executive produced and engineered by Ryan Martz. Our executive producer 715 00:36:10,840 --> 00:36:14,080 Speaker 2: and writer is Meredith Barnes. If you enjoy the show, 716 00:36:14,280 --> 00:36:16,759 Speaker 2: share it with your friends. You can also listen and 717 00:36:16,800 --> 00:36:20,560 Speaker 2: follow on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you 718 00:36:20,600 --> 00:36:21,680 Speaker 2: get your podcasts.