1 00:00:00,480 --> 00:00:03,560 Speaker 1: Joel, how's it going, buddy. I'm doing well, my friend, 2 00:00:03,600 --> 00:00:07,720 Speaker 1: But you just told my jobst. On Bestie episodes, I 3 00:00:07,800 --> 00:00:09,920 Speaker 1: like to kick things off, to let folks know that 4 00:00:10,000 --> 00:00:12,680 Speaker 1: you are in for something different during this episode and 5 00:00:12,800 --> 00:00:14,760 Speaker 1: shake things up. I'm all right that So a quick 6 00:00:14,800 --> 00:00:17,479 Speaker 1: question for you before we introduce our Bestie episode for today? 7 00:00:17,480 --> 00:00:20,599 Speaker 1: Are you a fan of eggnoge? Who isn't? Okay, just 8 00:00:20,640 --> 00:00:22,840 Speaker 1: not the crappy stuff. There's a lot of bad eggnog 9 00:00:22,880 --> 00:00:24,880 Speaker 1: out there there. There is some crappy stuff for sure. 10 00:00:25,000 --> 00:00:27,880 Speaker 1: So the reason I ask is because I've discovered a 11 00:00:27,920 --> 00:00:33,080 Speaker 1: new holiday cocktail that has very eggnog like qualities. It's 12 00:00:33,080 --> 00:00:36,480 Speaker 1: called a flip flip cocktail. So particularly I've been making uh, 13 00:00:36,640 --> 00:00:41,680 Speaker 1: rum flips and it's rum sugar, some cream, but then 14 00:00:41,720 --> 00:00:45,760 Speaker 1: an entire egg and you shake it up and it's 15 00:00:45,920 --> 00:00:47,920 Speaker 1: at uh what's it called? What's the spice? And eggnog? 16 00:00:48,600 --> 00:00:51,559 Speaker 1: Not ginger, not meg, a little bit of nutmeg on 17 00:00:51,600 --> 00:00:54,560 Speaker 1: top and make it pretty. It's like a nightcap. Sitting 18 00:00:54,560 --> 00:00:56,480 Speaker 1: there on the fire right, you're picking up on the 19 00:00:56,560 --> 00:00:58,680 Speaker 1: vibes and putting out there right us for craft beer advice. 20 00:00:58,720 --> 00:01:01,000 Speaker 1: But we know cocktails, we know cocktails as well. So 21 00:01:01,160 --> 00:01:03,360 Speaker 1: if you're listening and you don't want you're a fan 22 00:01:03,400 --> 00:01:05,120 Speaker 1: of eggnog and you don't want to make like an 23 00:01:05,240 --> 00:01:08,479 Speaker 1: entire batch of it at home, and also you're thinking, well, 24 00:01:08,480 --> 00:01:10,119 Speaker 1: I don't want to go out and have to buy 25 00:01:10,160 --> 00:01:14,360 Speaker 1: some look up a rum flip cocktail. It's really easy 26 00:01:14,400 --> 00:01:16,040 Speaker 1: to miss put a link to your favorite one in 27 00:01:16,080 --> 00:01:18,399 Speaker 1: the show. It's just I think it's like all recipes 28 00:01:18,520 --> 00:01:21,360 Speaker 1: or or whatever. I don't know, just the standard. It's 29 00:01:21,360 --> 00:01:24,120 Speaker 1: the standard cocktail. But I have been a big fan 30 00:01:24,160 --> 00:01:27,399 Speaker 1: of it. The mentioned that one today before we introduced 31 00:01:27,760 --> 00:01:30,920 Speaker 1: our interview that we are re airing today, and it 32 00:01:31,000 --> 00:01:33,600 Speaker 1: was a conversation that we had with Meg Nordman last 33 00:01:33,680 --> 00:01:38,039 Speaker 1: year about having a minimalist Christmas, and we hope that 34 00:01:38,040 --> 00:01:40,240 Speaker 1: that is the case for your Christmas this year. I 35 00:01:40,240 --> 00:01:42,840 Speaker 1: hope you enjoy this conversation that we had almost basically 36 00:01:42,840 --> 00:01:44,679 Speaker 1: a year ago. Yeah, it's kind of like a I mean, 37 00:01:44,680 --> 00:01:46,840 Speaker 1: I think it's a last minute reminder to folks to 38 00:01:47,440 --> 00:01:50,080 Speaker 1: let them know that you don't have to be scheduled 39 00:01:50,280 --> 00:01:53,120 Speaker 1: to the max, you don't have to overspend in order 40 00:01:53,160 --> 00:01:57,600 Speaker 1: to have a fun, magical, special Christmas. Oftentimes, uh, you 41 00:01:57,600 --> 00:02:00,520 Speaker 1: could borrow from the tenants of minimalism. You don't have 42 00:02:00,560 --> 00:02:03,120 Speaker 1: to go like full stark white everything or everything has 43 00:02:03,160 --> 00:02:05,520 Speaker 1: to be black, because we're not those guys either. No. Yeah, 44 00:02:05,600 --> 00:02:08,600 Speaker 1: we're both wearing plaid flannel shirts today. I always wear plaid, 45 00:02:08,680 --> 00:02:11,800 Speaker 1: Matt I wear plati a decent bit. But Meg published 46 00:02:11,840 --> 00:02:14,000 Speaker 1: a minimalist Christmas book last year, and so I think 47 00:02:14,000 --> 00:02:16,480 Speaker 1: there's a lot of lessons that we need to be 48 00:02:16,520 --> 00:02:19,680 Speaker 1: reminded of today. We'll be back here on Friday with 49 00:02:19,720 --> 00:02:22,079 Speaker 1: a fresh Friday flight for you. We're just taking a 50 00:02:22,160 --> 00:02:24,600 Speaker 1: day off to spend with the family leading up to Christmas. 51 00:02:24,680 --> 00:02:28,000 Speaker 1: Here but without further ado, here's that conversation with Meg. 52 00:02:28,240 --> 00:02:30,960 Speaker 1: Welcome to How the Money. I'm Joel and I'm Matt, 53 00:02:30,960 --> 00:02:54,080 Speaker 1: and today we're talking a very minimalist Christmas with Meg Nordman. Yes, 54 00:02:54,160 --> 00:02:56,560 Speaker 1: today we have the pleasure of speaking with Meg Nordman, 55 00:02:56,639 --> 00:02:59,760 Speaker 1: who is the author of Have Yourself a Minimalist Christmas. 56 00:03:00,280 --> 00:03:01,919 Speaker 1: And you know what, the holiday is quickly approaching. We 57 00:03:01,960 --> 00:03:04,480 Speaker 1: can often find ourselves just wondering where all of our 58 00:03:04,520 --> 00:03:08,360 Speaker 1: time and money is running off to. Right, like Christmas parties, 59 00:03:08,560 --> 00:03:10,720 Speaker 1: you're in school events for the kids, the cost of 60 00:03:10,800 --> 00:03:14,320 Speaker 1: decorating gifts for family members. The list could go on, 61 00:03:14,760 --> 00:03:17,640 Speaker 1: but Meg wants to shift your mindset by walking you 62 00:03:17,680 --> 00:03:20,480 Speaker 1: through some of the tenets of minimalism in her book, 63 00:03:20,840 --> 00:03:22,680 Speaker 1: and she's going to give us some strategies here to 64 00:03:22,680 --> 00:03:26,400 Speaker 1: help us to resist the clever marketing and the cultural 65 00:03:26,480 --> 00:03:30,960 Speaker 1: expectations that this season often brings. So Meg Nordman, thank 66 00:03:31,000 --> 00:03:33,280 Speaker 1: you for joining us today on the podcast. Thank you, 67 00:03:33,400 --> 00:03:36,280 Speaker 1: Matt and Joel. I'm really grateful to be here talking 68 00:03:36,280 --> 00:03:38,760 Speaker 1: with you today. Well, we're glad to have you, Meg, 69 00:03:38,920 --> 00:03:40,480 Speaker 1: and I think it's gonna be a lot of fun. 70 00:03:40,520 --> 00:03:44,880 Speaker 1: And I do think, especially in the culture we find 71 00:03:44,920 --> 00:03:48,400 Speaker 1: ourselves in, this conversation is an important one, hopefully helpful 72 00:03:48,440 --> 00:03:50,920 Speaker 1: for the how to money audience. But before we get 73 00:03:50,960 --> 00:03:54,119 Speaker 1: into all that stuff, I want to ask you, Matt 74 00:03:54,160 --> 00:03:55,960 Speaker 1: and I we like to drink a beer. We're drinking 75 00:03:55,960 --> 00:03:58,360 Speaker 1: a beer right now as we speak, and it's something 76 00:03:58,360 --> 00:04:00,760 Speaker 1: that we spend I would say, a lot of money 77 00:04:00,760 --> 00:04:03,400 Speaker 1: on while we're trying to save and invest well for 78 00:04:03,440 --> 00:04:06,000 Speaker 1: the future. So, yeah, what's that in your life? Do 79 00:04:06,000 --> 00:04:08,160 Speaker 1: you have a craft beer equivalent something you find yourself 80 00:04:08,400 --> 00:04:11,960 Speaker 1: spending more money on than most people would think is reasonable. Yes, 81 00:04:12,120 --> 00:04:17,400 Speaker 1: I definitely do. I'm thirty four and have seen the 82 00:04:17,440 --> 00:04:20,760 Speaker 1: effects of all this sun in Florida, and so I 83 00:04:20,800 --> 00:04:23,680 Speaker 1: have been splurging way you too much on skincare products 84 00:04:24,720 --> 00:04:28,119 Speaker 1: and at the same time I'm hoarding swimsuits. I've gotten 85 00:04:28,160 --> 00:04:31,480 Speaker 1: pretty minimalist in all aspects except for the swimsuit department. 86 00:04:31,640 --> 00:04:34,279 Speaker 1: So I'm just out in the sun in these swimsuits 87 00:04:34,320 --> 00:04:37,560 Speaker 1: and then you know, getting all these UV rays and 88 00:04:37,600 --> 00:04:43,640 Speaker 1: then covering myself and hats as well. Well maybe we'll 89 00:04:43,640 --> 00:04:45,440 Speaker 1: get to this later on in the episode two. But 90 00:04:45,480 --> 00:04:48,039 Speaker 1: you actually live in Florida, like on an island, is 91 00:04:48,040 --> 00:04:50,920 Speaker 1: that right? Yeah, Anastasia Island, So you spent a lot 92 00:04:50,920 --> 00:04:53,520 Speaker 1: of a lot of time on the beach. It's not 93 00:04:53,600 --> 00:04:55,360 Speaker 1: like you live in Nebraska and you just have like 94 00:04:55,400 --> 00:04:59,920 Speaker 1: an infatuation with swimwear. Yeah, I mean the swimwear basic. 95 00:05:00,160 --> 00:05:03,440 Speaker 1: That's that is my my clothes. So my husband's an 96 00:05:03,440 --> 00:05:07,039 Speaker 1: avid surfer and we're a quick bike ride from the beach, 97 00:05:07,520 --> 00:05:11,680 Speaker 1: so yeah, it's it's a free thing. We don't have 98 00:05:11,720 --> 00:05:17,080 Speaker 1: to spend money. We're constantly entertained, especially having kids. I've 99 00:05:17,120 --> 00:05:18,960 Speaker 1: always enjoyed the beach to a certain extent, but the 100 00:05:19,040 --> 00:05:20,760 Speaker 1: ability to go to a beach and then just let 101 00:05:20,760 --> 00:05:23,840 Speaker 1: the kids essentially just run wild. I now see the 102 00:05:23,880 --> 00:05:25,960 Speaker 1: appeal of that, I'm going to the beach when you 103 00:05:26,000 --> 00:05:28,960 Speaker 1: have kids. It's like, oh, wow, you've never been, you know, 104 00:05:29,040 --> 00:05:31,440 Speaker 1: a quarter mile away from you before, but you are. 105 00:05:31,600 --> 00:05:33,919 Speaker 1: And I'm okay with that because the beach it's a 106 00:05:33,920 --> 00:05:35,920 Speaker 1: good place to be. I love to let them have 107 00:05:35,960 --> 00:05:38,120 Speaker 1: that space because they do. They just run like the 108 00:05:38,520 --> 00:05:40,840 Speaker 1: Toddler's little kids, and they just run and run and run, 109 00:05:40,880 --> 00:05:43,600 Speaker 1: and they feel like they're so far away. But I 110 00:05:43,600 --> 00:05:45,720 Speaker 1: mean it's just a wide open space. We can see them. 111 00:05:45,800 --> 00:05:47,400 Speaker 1: We can go jog for him if we need to. 112 00:05:47,520 --> 00:05:49,320 Speaker 1: But it is nice to kind of like let them 113 00:05:49,320 --> 00:05:52,640 Speaker 1: off the leash in a sense, you know. Yeah, I 114 00:05:52,680 --> 00:05:55,960 Speaker 1: love that. Alright, So mag let's talk about minimalism in general, 115 00:05:56,080 --> 00:05:58,479 Speaker 1: kind of like what set you down that path in 116 00:05:58,520 --> 00:06:03,479 Speaker 1: the first place. Yes, So, I used to be I 117 00:06:03,520 --> 00:06:06,520 Speaker 1: guess you could say, like borderline hoarder. I was, you know, 118 00:06:06,600 --> 00:06:08,720 Speaker 1: not hoarder to the level of being on a TV 119 00:06:08,800 --> 00:06:10,840 Speaker 1: show with the dead rats in my house or anything. 120 00:06:11,520 --> 00:06:15,120 Speaker 1: But I've now realized that my parents are a bit 121 00:06:15,160 --> 00:06:18,200 Speaker 1: of hoarders and so I just I never saw anyone 122 00:06:18,320 --> 00:06:21,720 Speaker 1: declutter anything in my life, and so I never did. 123 00:06:21,839 --> 00:06:24,919 Speaker 1: I moved from apartment to apartment, from state to state, 124 00:06:25,240 --> 00:06:28,760 Speaker 1: and just kept boxing up all this stuff and never 125 00:06:28,839 --> 00:06:33,560 Speaker 1: let go of anything. And at some point my boyfriend 126 00:06:33,560 --> 00:06:37,120 Speaker 1: moved in with me, and wait, we have a long 127 00:06:37,320 --> 00:06:40,240 Speaker 1: tangled love story. We had a few years break there, 128 00:06:40,400 --> 00:06:43,640 Speaker 1: and in that break he'd been surfing around the globe 129 00:06:43,640 --> 00:06:46,039 Speaker 1: and became a minimalist and the sense that he just 130 00:06:46,080 --> 00:06:49,120 Speaker 1: had a backpack on surfboard and hitchhiked from country to 131 00:06:49,160 --> 00:06:52,440 Speaker 1: country to find good surf. And so he came back 132 00:06:52,480 --> 00:06:54,480 Speaker 1: and moved in with me and just had like nothing, 133 00:06:54,640 --> 00:06:56,920 Speaker 1: you know, He's like five T shirts and two board 134 00:06:56,960 --> 00:07:02,240 Speaker 1: shorts and surfboard and the guitar, you know. Yeah, and uh. 135 00:07:02,320 --> 00:07:04,240 Speaker 1: And then he had to move into my place, where 136 00:07:04,279 --> 00:07:07,040 Speaker 1: I'd never let go of anything since I was a child, 137 00:07:07,800 --> 00:07:09,760 Speaker 1: So that was probably a shock to his system. And 138 00:07:09,800 --> 00:07:13,000 Speaker 1: so he kind of just led by example, both in 139 00:07:13,120 --> 00:07:18,200 Speaker 1: like the financial independence route and wanting to be debt free. 140 00:07:18,360 --> 00:07:20,400 Speaker 1: Like never even occurred to me that I could be 141 00:07:20,560 --> 00:07:25,040 Speaker 1: debt free or financially independent or not have so much stuff. 142 00:07:25,360 --> 00:07:27,880 Speaker 1: So I really give a lot of credit to him 143 00:07:28,000 --> 00:07:33,120 Speaker 1: for leading the way there. So, um, I had a 144 00:07:33,120 --> 00:07:38,160 Speaker 1: shopoholic problem with clothes and shoes in particular. So I 145 00:07:38,240 --> 00:07:42,440 Speaker 1: was briefly out in Albuquerque, New Mexico, doing digital marketing 146 00:07:42,480 --> 00:07:46,640 Speaker 1: for tech startups, and we moved to Florida after we 147 00:07:46,720 --> 00:07:52,360 Speaker 1: got debt free, and I found Marie Kondo's book The 148 00:07:52,400 --> 00:07:56,040 Speaker 1: Magical Art of Tidying Up and read about decluttering for 149 00:07:56,080 --> 00:08:00,120 Speaker 1: the first time in my life. That that sounds was 150 00:08:00,120 --> 00:08:02,160 Speaker 1: stilly to say that. That That was a lightbulb moment for me. 151 00:08:02,240 --> 00:08:05,840 Speaker 1: Was like, Oh, I don't have to keep everything, and 152 00:08:05,920 --> 00:08:09,280 Speaker 1: you know in her classic doesn't spark joy question And 153 00:08:09,600 --> 00:08:12,680 Speaker 1: so I let go of things and it felt like 154 00:08:12,760 --> 00:08:15,960 Speaker 1: a lot. But I did not become a minimalist overnight 155 00:08:16,320 --> 00:08:19,600 Speaker 1: at all. Um but I felt like because it was 156 00:08:19,640 --> 00:08:21,360 Speaker 1: my first time letting go of things, it felt like 157 00:08:21,400 --> 00:08:23,800 Speaker 1: a lot of things were let go. But my god, 158 00:08:24,200 --> 00:08:28,320 Speaker 1: we had my SUV pact. We had a huge trailer 159 00:08:28,680 --> 00:08:32,120 Speaker 1: just loaded up. It wasn't enough. We had to get 160 00:08:32,120 --> 00:08:33,839 Speaker 1: a U haul truck and get his mother in law 161 00:08:33,840 --> 00:08:36,720 Speaker 1: to drive behind us. And I still literally left things 162 00:08:36,760 --> 00:08:39,400 Speaker 1: on the sidewalk because I couldn't cram it in. That's 163 00:08:39,720 --> 00:08:44,840 Speaker 1: and you know that was like my stuff, and um, 164 00:08:44,880 --> 00:08:47,560 Speaker 1: we moved into a little seven square foot place here 165 00:08:47,720 --> 00:08:51,200 Speaker 1: on the beach and couldn't fit it in. I had, 166 00:08:51,400 --> 00:08:54,760 Speaker 1: you know, probably two thousand square group of stuff, and 167 00:08:55,200 --> 00:08:57,480 Speaker 1: so I had to declutter a little further. And then 168 00:08:57,559 --> 00:09:00,520 Speaker 1: we were living in chaos because I still had crammed 169 00:09:01,320 --> 00:09:03,520 Speaker 1: and we had a kid right away. I was like 170 00:09:03,640 --> 00:09:07,600 Speaker 1: eight months pregnantly moved and once they start walking, the 171 00:09:07,679 --> 00:09:10,280 Speaker 1: toys start moving and they scatter, and I get everywhere 172 00:09:10,280 --> 00:09:13,280 Speaker 1: and there's no way to contain it. So it just 173 00:09:13,480 --> 00:09:15,840 Speaker 1: was bonkers. And I was spending my life in this 174 00:09:16,000 --> 00:09:18,480 Speaker 1: like bent over a position of just picking up and 175 00:09:18,520 --> 00:09:21,320 Speaker 1: picking up and picking up, and all I was doing 176 00:09:21,520 --> 00:09:24,680 Speaker 1: was massive loads of laundry. The couch was just this mountain, 177 00:09:25,200 --> 00:09:27,800 Speaker 1: this never ending mountain to sift through of clothes. You 178 00:09:27,800 --> 00:09:30,520 Speaker 1: couldn't sit on it. The dishes were always piled up. 179 00:09:30,880 --> 00:09:34,280 Speaker 1: And so there was finally this lightbulb moment as as 180 00:09:34,320 --> 00:09:37,360 Speaker 1: I was relearning new shopping habits, because we had this 181 00:09:37,440 --> 00:09:40,840 Speaker 1: goal to hit financial independence at a pretty quick right, 182 00:09:41,480 --> 00:09:45,280 Speaker 1: so I had to stop buying so much stuff in 183 00:09:45,280 --> 00:09:49,240 Speaker 1: the first place. And then that realization of if I 184 00:09:49,280 --> 00:09:53,080 Speaker 1: just have less stuff then I have less things to clean, 185 00:09:53,160 --> 00:09:56,320 Speaker 1: which means I have more time, and that was really 186 00:09:56,360 --> 00:09:58,559 Speaker 1: all I craved. You know, the whole point of financial 187 00:09:58,600 --> 00:10:01,320 Speaker 1: independence was time. But I also need to let go 188 00:10:01,320 --> 00:10:03,280 Speaker 1: of the stuff because I wanted to be present with 189 00:10:03,280 --> 00:10:05,200 Speaker 1: my kid, not cleaning up all day. I wanted to 190 00:10:05,200 --> 00:10:08,520 Speaker 1: play with her, and I wanted to write. I've been 191 00:10:08,520 --> 00:10:10,920 Speaker 1: wanting to write books forever, but I didn't have time 192 00:10:10,920 --> 00:10:12,240 Speaker 1: to sit down and write. And I want to make 193 00:10:12,440 --> 00:10:15,560 Speaker 1: art and I want to make music. And so once 194 00:10:15,840 --> 00:10:20,080 Speaker 1: I finally had that real light bulb moment and figured 195 00:10:20,120 --> 00:10:23,360 Speaker 1: out that asking does it spark joy? It like barely 196 00:10:23,400 --> 00:10:26,439 Speaker 1: scratches the surface of what you need to be asking 197 00:10:26,480 --> 00:10:29,400 Speaker 1: when you let go of things, um and finding those 198 00:10:29,440 --> 00:10:32,240 Speaker 1: deeper questions and really kind of digging into my own 199 00:10:32,280 --> 00:10:35,839 Speaker 1: psychology of why I was clutching to so many things 200 00:10:36,480 --> 00:10:40,520 Speaker 1: I was able to let go, and they all just 201 00:10:40,600 --> 00:10:43,520 Speaker 1: kind of work in tandem, Like the ability to save 202 00:10:43,640 --> 00:10:46,679 Speaker 1: money and the ability to let go items. It just 203 00:10:46,920 --> 00:10:50,400 Speaker 1: really worked together for me, like everything clicked all at 204 00:10:50,440 --> 00:10:55,320 Speaker 1: the same time, and so we definitely became a minimalist household. 205 00:10:55,440 --> 00:10:58,560 Speaker 1: You know, We've got like two bowls for adults and 206 00:10:58,679 --> 00:11:03,319 Speaker 1: two kid bowls and six spoons, you know, and one 207 00:11:03,400 --> 00:11:06,920 Speaker 1: water glass for everyone. Now I do have enough to 208 00:11:07,000 --> 00:11:09,760 Speaker 1: sit about six people if I needed to, if we 209 00:11:09,880 --> 00:11:12,319 Speaker 1: happen to have family over our guests. It's just kind 210 00:11:12,320 --> 00:11:14,800 Speaker 1: of a rare event for us. And all that's tucked 211 00:11:14,800 --> 00:11:17,800 Speaker 1: away at a cabinet that's kind of higher up and 212 00:11:17,880 --> 00:11:20,840 Speaker 1: hard to reach. But you know, I can't possibly have 213 00:11:21,040 --> 00:11:25,720 Speaker 1: an overflowing kitchen when all we have is four bowls 214 00:11:25,800 --> 00:11:28,480 Speaker 1: in four cups, you know, like I don't need to 215 00:11:28,559 --> 00:11:31,679 Speaker 1: run the dishwasher anymore. And so you know, of course 216 00:11:31,679 --> 00:11:35,480 Speaker 1: I applied I applied that to clothes, and UM really 217 00:11:35,520 --> 00:11:38,880 Speaker 1: kind of capsule wardrobed everyone. And that was a big 218 00:11:38,880 --> 00:11:42,280 Speaker 1: deal for me. Um, As you know from my description, 219 00:11:42,320 --> 00:11:44,319 Speaker 1: I used to need like to walk in closets for 220 00:11:44,400 --> 00:11:48,000 Speaker 1: my clothes, and now I can see everything within like 221 00:11:48,040 --> 00:11:49,920 Speaker 1: a small you know, when you just open up a 222 00:11:49,960 --> 00:11:53,240 Speaker 1: closet door, that little window frame, that's it. That's all 223 00:11:53,280 --> 00:11:56,040 Speaker 1: I have hanging. And my husband and I share a 224 00:11:56,080 --> 00:11:58,839 Speaker 1: small chester drawers together, so we each have like two 225 00:11:58,920 --> 00:12:04,000 Speaker 1: drawers for ourselves. And it's just a huge, huge, huge improvement. 226 00:12:04,480 --> 00:12:07,000 Speaker 1: And so you know, there's no way I could fill 227 00:12:07,080 --> 00:12:09,920 Speaker 1: up our couch full of clothes now. So I gained 228 00:12:09,920 --> 00:12:11,319 Speaker 1: my time back and I was able to join in 229 00:12:11,320 --> 00:12:14,560 Speaker 1: the orchestra and make music again, and make art and 230 00:12:14,920 --> 00:12:18,320 Speaker 1: write a book. We go and hang out on the 231 00:12:18,320 --> 00:12:21,040 Speaker 1: beach all the time, and so we were able to 232 00:12:21,080 --> 00:12:25,120 Speaker 1: achieve our goals. My husband retired early this past April, 233 00:12:25,800 --> 00:12:28,600 Speaker 1: you know, cut our spending down to like seven thousand 234 00:12:28,640 --> 00:12:33,240 Speaker 1: dollars a year. It worked. But my problem was, even 235 00:12:33,320 --> 00:12:37,520 Speaker 1: despite really seeing all this improvement with our budget and 236 00:12:37,559 --> 00:12:41,959 Speaker 1: the improvement with decluttering the rest of the house, Christmas 237 00:12:42,000 --> 00:12:44,680 Speaker 1: was a big problem for me. Yeah. So well, let's 238 00:12:44,760 --> 00:12:47,160 Speaker 1: I want to camp out for one second on minimalism. 239 00:12:47,160 --> 00:12:49,679 Speaker 1: And you said that what began is like this forced 240 00:12:49,760 --> 00:12:53,319 Speaker 1: purge kind of turned into a choice and it led 241 00:12:53,360 --> 00:12:57,439 Speaker 1: to this like simplified lifestyle, which sounds like it's been 242 00:12:58,080 --> 00:13:00,920 Speaker 1: awesome for you for your family. Um, I just want 243 00:13:00,960 --> 00:13:02,199 Speaker 1: to know, like you know, before we get into the 244 00:13:02,280 --> 00:13:05,559 Speaker 1: Christmas stuff, what tips do you have for our listeners 245 00:13:05,559 --> 00:13:08,840 Speaker 1: who are who are saying, okay, Meg just said that 246 00:13:08,960 --> 00:13:11,480 Speaker 1: sparking joy that didn't go far enough. You had to 247 00:13:11,520 --> 00:13:14,040 Speaker 1: confront like some deeper demons and it was more than 248 00:13:14,160 --> 00:13:18,560 Speaker 1: just like tossing things out or and giving them to goodwill. Uh, Like, 249 00:13:18,640 --> 00:13:22,200 Speaker 1: how would you suggest people begin this process of minimalism 250 00:13:22,200 --> 00:13:24,360 Speaker 1: if they're kind of like just now getting wapped in 251 00:13:24,400 --> 00:13:26,400 Speaker 1: the face with the potential idea that they that they 252 00:13:26,400 --> 00:13:29,679 Speaker 1: should even consider it. Yeah, I know. One tip I 253 00:13:29,720 --> 00:13:32,200 Speaker 1: would suggest that was kind of a mind hack that 254 00:13:32,240 --> 00:13:35,400 Speaker 1: helped me was to look at things and say, well, 255 00:13:35,440 --> 00:13:38,840 Speaker 1: what is my favorite? Because when I went through my closet, 256 00:13:39,480 --> 00:13:44,200 Speaker 1: I had I'm not kidding, probably fifty little black dresses 257 00:13:44,480 --> 00:13:48,640 Speaker 1: like perfect fit me well, gorgeous little black cocktail dresses 258 00:13:49,360 --> 00:13:52,120 Speaker 1: that I would love to wear. But here I am 259 00:13:52,160 --> 00:13:54,360 Speaker 1: in this new season of life. I don't go to events. 260 00:13:54,480 --> 00:13:57,960 Speaker 1: I don't have a corporate job. You know, I'm a 261 00:13:58,040 --> 00:14:02,560 Speaker 1: mother and we're lucky if we go on two or 262 00:14:02,600 --> 00:14:06,160 Speaker 1: three real date nights, you know, like going out to 263 00:14:06,200 --> 00:14:11,040 Speaker 1: get cocktails a year. So why do I have fifty 264 00:14:11,200 --> 00:14:14,760 Speaker 1: of them? But you know, putting my fingers on them 265 00:14:14,800 --> 00:14:17,719 Speaker 1: to go through the decluttering process and asking does this 266 00:14:17,800 --> 00:14:20,840 Speaker 1: spark joy? Yes? It does? This dress me excited. It 267 00:14:20,840 --> 00:14:22,120 Speaker 1: makes me want to go out and do that thing, 268 00:14:22,120 --> 00:14:25,560 Speaker 1: even if I'm not doing that thing exactly. And it's 269 00:14:25,600 --> 00:14:28,440 Speaker 1: just that you like all of them, but you don't 270 00:14:28,440 --> 00:14:31,520 Speaker 1: need all of them exactly, and we have all these 271 00:14:31,560 --> 00:14:33,880 Speaker 1: ways we can nationalize it. Of well, this one is 272 00:14:33,920 --> 00:14:36,640 Speaker 1: great for a slightly more conservative one, and this one 273 00:14:36,680 --> 00:14:40,920 Speaker 1: costs four hundred dollars. But I go through when I say, okay, 274 00:14:41,160 --> 00:14:43,680 Speaker 1: I only get to day nights a year. What is 275 00:14:43,720 --> 00:14:46,360 Speaker 1: that very first little black dress that I'm going to 276 00:14:46,400 --> 00:14:49,840 Speaker 1: reach for that I know will apply to all situations, 277 00:14:49,880 --> 00:14:52,320 Speaker 1: that will always make me feel good, that will always 278 00:14:52,320 --> 00:14:55,720 Speaker 1: look great on me. Which one is that going to be? 279 00:14:56,120 --> 00:14:59,560 Speaker 1: Most people could do this. You know which dress are 280 00:14:59,680 --> 00:15:01,760 Speaker 1: out it? You know, my free you might be a shirt, 281 00:15:02,160 --> 00:15:05,040 Speaker 1: but you know, you know which one that is so okay? 282 00:15:05,080 --> 00:15:07,560 Speaker 1: That one stays, And then all the rest of those, 283 00:15:07,600 --> 00:15:09,640 Speaker 1: even though they all spark joy and I find them 284 00:15:09,640 --> 00:15:12,520 Speaker 1: all beautiful, it doesn't matter. I need to let it go. 285 00:15:13,280 --> 00:15:15,800 Speaker 1: And so I had to do that to a lot 286 00:15:15,840 --> 00:15:18,720 Speaker 1: of things, I mean, as permeated through all aspects of 287 00:15:18,720 --> 00:15:22,360 Speaker 1: your life. And so you're seeing the benefits of minimalism 288 00:15:22,400 --> 00:15:24,640 Speaker 1: across the board. But you mentioned how it's you know, 289 00:15:24,680 --> 00:15:27,240 Speaker 1: like Christmas in particular, it's still a problem for a 290 00:15:27,240 --> 00:15:29,680 Speaker 1: lot of folks. And I think we can all find ourselves, 291 00:15:29,680 --> 00:15:32,200 Speaker 1: you know, in that whirlwind of holiday gift giving, and 292 00:15:32,200 --> 00:15:34,640 Speaker 1: it's essentially become a part of our culture, you know, 293 00:15:34,720 --> 00:15:36,880 Speaker 1: like it's just ingrained in us, It's ingrained in the 294 00:15:36,960 --> 00:15:39,200 Speaker 1: lives that we live. And so can you talk us 295 00:15:39,200 --> 00:15:42,680 Speaker 1: through the evolution of Christmas and consumerism just becoming more 296 00:15:42,720 --> 00:15:47,440 Speaker 1: and more entwined. Yeah. So my child's first birthday, I 297 00:15:47,440 --> 00:15:50,920 Speaker 1: mean birthday, well that one too, probably, but her first Christmas. 298 00:15:51,040 --> 00:15:54,520 Speaker 1: You know, Santa gave her everything a child could need 299 00:15:54,800 --> 00:15:57,680 Speaker 1: for the first five years of their life. I mean 300 00:15:57,720 --> 00:16:00,720 Speaker 1: I just went overboard. I was just so excited because 301 00:16:00,720 --> 00:16:03,240 Speaker 1: as a parent, you get this role, or I feel it. 302 00:16:03,320 --> 00:16:06,560 Speaker 1: I had this role that I needed to create magic. 303 00:16:07,120 --> 00:16:11,080 Speaker 1: You know, I'm the magic maker, and I remembered, you know, 304 00:16:11,160 --> 00:16:14,160 Speaker 1: Christmas Morning feeling magical as a kid. So I was 305 00:16:14,280 --> 00:16:17,480 Speaker 1: very excited about this role and I just went overboard. 306 00:16:17,560 --> 00:16:20,600 Speaker 1: You know. I got the little stroller pram for the 307 00:16:20,640 --> 00:16:23,520 Speaker 1: baby doll, and I got the toy kitchen, and I 308 00:16:23,560 --> 00:16:27,520 Speaker 1: got the rocking horse, and I mean just everything. I 309 00:16:27,520 --> 00:16:31,880 Speaker 1: mean the picture of Christmas Morning was just ridiculous, and 310 00:16:32,200 --> 00:16:33,880 Speaker 1: you know, I was very proud of it in the moment, 311 00:16:34,040 --> 00:16:37,600 Speaker 1: but um, there was like nothing left to buy my 312 00:16:37,680 --> 00:16:43,120 Speaker 1: kid for the future years and there was no budget set. 313 00:16:43,240 --> 00:16:47,400 Speaker 1: There was no discussion about budget. Um, I just just 314 00:16:47,480 --> 00:16:52,320 Speaker 1: went ape with it. I had that moment after Christmas 315 00:16:52,440 --> 00:16:55,320 Speaker 1: when I kind of realized what I've done, like just 316 00:16:55,400 --> 00:16:58,000 Speaker 1: how out of control I've gotten and how much money 317 00:16:58,040 --> 00:17:02,920 Speaker 1: I'd spent, and then wanting to declutter almost everything I 318 00:17:03,080 --> 00:17:07,760 Speaker 1: just bought, like, oh wow, I just destroyed all of 319 00:17:07,800 --> 00:17:10,400 Speaker 1: my efforts here to keep things righted in. I just 320 00:17:10,440 --> 00:17:13,720 Speaker 1: went that that toy that created like fifteen minutes of 321 00:17:13,800 --> 00:17:16,200 Speaker 1: joy on Christmas morning is now you're like stubbing your 322 00:17:16,200 --> 00:17:19,520 Speaker 1: toel on through. Oh I can see now, I'm just 323 00:17:19,560 --> 00:17:22,000 Speaker 1: gonna be picking up all these little loose parts over 324 00:17:22,080 --> 00:17:23,679 Speaker 1: and over and over again and trying to keep them 325 00:17:23,680 --> 00:17:28,040 Speaker 1: in the basket. And they will never stay in the basket. So, 326 00:17:28,480 --> 00:17:30,280 Speaker 1: you know, over that next year of like kind of 327 00:17:30,320 --> 00:17:34,439 Speaker 1: seeing how much wreckage I had done. Also, I in 328 00:17:34,560 --> 00:17:37,280 Speaker 1: my journey to minimalism, I joined a lot of Facebook groups, 329 00:17:37,359 --> 00:17:41,639 Speaker 1: you know, for support and tips and everything. And I 330 00:17:41,720 --> 00:17:45,640 Speaker 1: started noticing after I came to grips with my own 331 00:17:45,840 --> 00:17:49,320 Speaker 1: problem with wrecking myself on Chris and it wasn't just me, 332 00:17:49,480 --> 00:17:53,480 Speaker 1: it was also the grandparents and the ants, and the friends. 333 00:17:53,680 --> 00:17:55,960 Speaker 1: I mean, I did it and they did it too, 334 00:17:56,040 --> 00:18:00,320 Speaker 1: you know, like it was just ridiculous. So being all 335 00:18:00,359 --> 00:18:02,440 Speaker 1: these questions of like, well, how do I ask my 336 00:18:02,560 --> 00:18:05,439 Speaker 1: mother in law to stop bringing in a truckload of gifts? 337 00:18:05,600 --> 00:18:10,120 Speaker 1: Or how do I now go from going overboard every 338 00:18:10,200 --> 00:18:14,000 Speaker 1: Christmas and creating this epic you know, amount of gifts 339 00:18:14,040 --> 00:18:17,600 Speaker 1: under the tree to a more minimalist approach of justice, 340 00:18:17,680 --> 00:18:20,520 Speaker 1: like four or five gifts? Are my kids going to 341 00:18:20,680 --> 00:18:23,199 Speaker 1: feel deprived? How are they going to deal with that 342 00:18:23,280 --> 00:18:27,000 Speaker 1: big switch? And so everyone's asking these same questions year 343 00:18:27,080 --> 00:18:30,479 Speaker 1: after a year, and I'm noticing that in all of 344 00:18:30,480 --> 00:18:33,360 Speaker 1: the groups. And that's when it occurred to me. Now 345 00:18:33,359 --> 00:18:36,520 Speaker 1: that I've consumed like twenty five books on minimalism and 346 00:18:36,560 --> 00:18:38,879 Speaker 1: audio books and the podcasts and stuff, I'm like, oh, no, 347 00:18:38,920 --> 00:18:43,440 Speaker 1: one's addressed how even as a practicing minimalist, we're still 348 00:18:43,520 --> 00:18:48,000 Speaker 1: falling into this consumerst trap during the holidays. The marketing 349 00:18:48,040 --> 00:18:51,840 Speaker 1: still gets to us too. We're not impermeable, do it. Well, Hey, 350 00:18:51,880 --> 00:18:54,080 Speaker 1: we've got a bunch more questions make to get to, 351 00:18:54,160 --> 00:18:57,840 Speaker 1: including how we actually don't turn off maybe that minimalism 352 00:18:57,840 --> 00:19:00,119 Speaker 1: down what it looks like to have a Christmas is 353 00:19:00,240 --> 00:19:03,280 Speaker 1: that is less influenced by consumerism. So we'll get to 354 00:19:03,359 --> 00:19:06,120 Speaker 1: some more questions about that with you right after this 355 00:19:06,119 --> 00:19:17,320 Speaker 1: break where we're back from the break and we're talking 356 00:19:17,359 --> 00:19:20,800 Speaker 1: with Meg Norman about having a minimalist Christmas and and Meg, 357 00:19:20,920 --> 00:19:23,000 Speaker 1: you know, before the break you're talking about your personal 358 00:19:23,520 --> 00:19:26,359 Speaker 1: history with how you kind of fell into the trap 359 00:19:26,480 --> 00:19:29,040 Speaker 1: of consuming more around the holidays. Can you talk to 360 00:19:29,119 --> 00:19:32,840 Speaker 1: something about the history of just consumerism and commercialism and 361 00:19:33,040 --> 00:19:36,560 Speaker 1: and the waters that we find ourselves swimming in. Yeah. Absolutely, 362 00:19:36,880 --> 00:19:39,639 Speaker 1: So this was a big help for me. So after 363 00:19:39,680 --> 00:19:42,600 Speaker 1: that first year of just going off the deep end, 364 00:19:43,119 --> 00:19:46,400 Speaker 1: the next year I felt it creeping up again. And 365 00:19:46,520 --> 00:19:49,000 Speaker 1: I don't know what it was, but I ended up googling, 366 00:19:49,640 --> 00:19:51,439 Speaker 1: you know, the history of Santa, because I was like, 367 00:19:51,480 --> 00:19:54,000 Speaker 1: what is it with this Santa? Like I'm playing Santa, 368 00:19:54,160 --> 00:19:55,760 Speaker 1: and I feel like I need to bring in the 369 00:19:55,840 --> 00:19:59,920 Speaker 1: whole sleigh full of toys? Um, why, Like what is 370 00:20:00,000 --> 00:20:05,040 Speaker 1: Santa's deal? Because it's almost like treated like a religion 371 00:20:05,080 --> 00:20:09,159 Speaker 1: in itself, you know, and we all play into this narrative, 372 00:20:09,240 --> 00:20:13,040 Speaker 1: the story as a whole society. We all do it together, 373 00:20:13,760 --> 00:20:16,000 Speaker 1: and so you know, I get on there and read 374 00:20:16,040 --> 00:20:19,800 Speaker 1: about the history, and it relieved so much pressure from 375 00:20:19,800 --> 00:20:23,159 Speaker 1: me just to understand this, and I was able to. 376 00:20:24,200 --> 00:20:27,600 Speaker 1: I don't completely opt out of it, but I've taken 377 00:20:28,359 --> 00:20:34,159 Speaker 1: five steps backwards, like homework, backing up into the bushes 378 00:20:34,240 --> 00:20:35,440 Speaker 1: kind of thing. When it comes to the way you 379 00:20:35,520 --> 00:20:39,560 Speaker 1: approached the sime, Yeah, yeah, so yeah. So to give 380 00:20:39,560 --> 00:20:42,040 Speaker 1: you a quick rundown, you know, you have St. Nicholas. 381 00:20:42,080 --> 00:20:44,880 Speaker 1: He's born into a d a d He's a monk 382 00:20:44,960 --> 00:20:47,199 Speaker 1: that gave away a lot of his wealth to the 383 00:20:47,240 --> 00:20:51,760 Speaker 1: poor and the needy. And he reappears in modern history 384 00:20:52,000 --> 00:20:56,000 Speaker 1: in the US anyway in seventeen seventy three because there 385 00:20:56,040 --> 00:20:59,240 Speaker 1: were some Dutch immigrants and they were just honoring the 386 00:20:59,240 --> 00:21:02,720 Speaker 1: anniversary of his death. And for whatever reason, uh New 387 00:21:02,800 --> 00:21:05,760 Speaker 1: York newspaper picks that up and runs a story on it, 388 00:21:06,280 --> 00:21:10,400 Speaker 1: and suddenly there's like a renewed interest in this guy St. Nicholas, 389 00:21:11,040 --> 00:21:14,560 Speaker 1: and about you know, twenty years later in the eighteen hundreds, 390 00:21:14,920 --> 00:21:18,359 Speaker 1: um images of him in little wood cuttings start getting 391 00:21:18,359 --> 00:21:22,720 Speaker 1: passed around of him slipping items into stockings, and then 392 00:21:22,800 --> 00:21:27,119 Speaker 1: about twenty years later, the stores catch onto these woodcuts 393 00:21:27,119 --> 00:21:31,680 Speaker 1: being passed around among families and they start advertising around 394 00:21:31,800 --> 00:21:36,359 Speaker 1: that and somehow work him into Christmas shopping. So, I 395 00:21:36,359 --> 00:21:39,800 Speaker 1: we're talking eighteen twenties, that's very recent history, you know. 396 00:21:40,520 --> 00:21:44,840 Speaker 1: And so twenty years later St. Nicholas starts morphing into 397 00:21:44,880 --> 00:21:49,320 Speaker 1: Santa and that poem towards the night before Christmas. It 398 00:21:49,440 --> 00:21:52,760 Speaker 1: was written by a preacher and he felt very embarrassed 399 00:21:52,760 --> 00:21:54,560 Speaker 1: by it. He just did it for his nieces, just 400 00:21:54,640 --> 00:21:56,879 Speaker 1: for fun, and then it got published and he felt like, 401 00:21:56,880 --> 00:21:59,600 Speaker 1: oh my gosh, I can't believe. But he was really 402 00:21:59,600 --> 00:22:04,200 Speaker 1: embarb and because it wasn't necessarily a religious text, it's 403 00:22:04,240 --> 00:22:08,000 Speaker 1: just a mythic. He yeah, he just dreamed up this 404 00:22:08,080 --> 00:22:10,640 Speaker 1: image of who this random Santa guy is that had 405 00:22:10,800 --> 00:22:13,359 Speaker 1: just started to kind of catch wind in newspapers and 406 00:22:13,520 --> 00:22:16,840 Speaker 1: shopping and advertising, and so he really shaped it with 407 00:22:16,880 --> 00:22:21,280 Speaker 1: that poem. And then the malls started offering live Santa's 408 00:22:21,480 --> 00:22:23,800 Speaker 1: and Macy's, you know, was the first one. And they 409 00:22:23,800 --> 00:22:26,679 Speaker 1: have their Thanksgiving parade that starts um in like the 410 00:22:26,760 --> 00:22:30,000 Speaker 1: nineteen twenties, and they have their Santa in the back 411 00:22:30,119 --> 00:22:34,160 Speaker 1: for the first time. And so Coca Cola and nineteen thirties, 412 00:22:34,200 --> 00:22:37,119 Speaker 1: ten years later catches wind of this and so they 413 00:22:37,160 --> 00:22:41,120 Speaker 1: start adding Santa to their advertising. So whoever the the 414 00:22:41,160 --> 00:22:45,840 Speaker 1: illustrator was for their advertising department really fine tuned what 415 00:22:45,880 --> 00:22:49,080 Speaker 1: he's supposed to look like to us now. So yeah, 416 00:22:49,320 --> 00:22:54,199 Speaker 1: Coca Cola kind of created our jolly red Santa. This 417 00:22:54,280 --> 00:22:57,040 Speaker 1: kind of stuff like really helped me go, oh my gosh, 418 00:22:57,080 --> 00:22:59,639 Speaker 1: this is and it continues. So just to give a 419 00:22:59,760 --> 00:23:02,680 Speaker 1: really quick rundown, the songs that hit the charts in 420 00:23:03,960 --> 00:23:07,760 Speaker 1: four were Santa Claus is Coming to Town, and that 421 00:23:07,840 --> 00:23:10,919 Speaker 1: starts this whole narrative around the good list, you know, 422 00:23:11,080 --> 00:23:15,120 Speaker 1: the good and the naughty, and then n nine is Rudolph, 423 00:23:15,280 --> 00:23:19,200 Speaker 1: nineteen fifty is Frosty, and two thousand five is Elf 424 00:23:19,400 --> 00:23:21,879 Speaker 1: on the Shelf. And so I'm kind of seeing this 425 00:23:22,040 --> 00:23:26,080 Speaker 1: like this very recent history timeline of like how we 426 00:23:26,160 --> 00:23:30,199 Speaker 1: created this story and how it was mostly created for 427 00:23:31,000 --> 00:23:36,240 Speaker 1: malls and products big corporations to have like another way 428 00:23:36,280 --> 00:23:40,560 Speaker 1: to make more sales in the wintertime. And that relieved 429 00:23:40,680 --> 00:23:43,239 Speaker 1: some of that pressure to create this magic. You know, 430 00:23:43,520 --> 00:23:46,800 Speaker 1: it's going to be magical no matter what. So I 431 00:23:46,880 --> 00:23:49,879 Speaker 1: didn't feel that impulse to buy so much of like, 432 00:23:49,920 --> 00:23:54,080 Speaker 1: oh my gosh, this thing is. It's not real. It's 433 00:23:54,080 --> 00:23:57,399 Speaker 1: not a religion as I don't have to participate in 434 00:23:57,440 --> 00:23:59,879 Speaker 1: this so much. So what it did for me was 435 00:24:00,640 --> 00:24:03,560 Speaker 1: I don't ask my kids what do you want for Christmas? 436 00:24:03,680 --> 00:24:06,280 Speaker 1: As much because I did that in the beginning. You know, 437 00:24:06,359 --> 00:24:09,600 Speaker 1: what do you want? What do you want? Here's the 438 00:24:10,080 --> 00:24:13,720 Speaker 1: you know, it's terrible, terrible like approach, having that continual 439 00:24:13,760 --> 00:24:16,639 Speaker 1: conversation about what they're looking to give for Christmas. How 440 00:24:16,720 --> 00:24:20,000 Speaker 1: how have you changed that conversational dynamic. Yes, so if 441 00:24:20,040 --> 00:24:22,520 Speaker 1: you go and meet Santa, don't go sit on his 442 00:24:22,560 --> 00:24:25,119 Speaker 1: knee and tell Santa what you want. Like that's just 443 00:24:25,240 --> 00:24:28,119 Speaker 1: one of those small things that adds to it, because 444 00:24:28,359 --> 00:24:30,760 Speaker 1: all we're asking kids is what do you want? Like 445 00:24:30,800 --> 00:24:34,600 Speaker 1: I just got an Amazon catalog in the mail with 446 00:24:34,800 --> 00:24:38,119 Speaker 1: toys that has one whole page is just stickers that 447 00:24:38,200 --> 00:24:41,760 Speaker 1: say I want this, this one, this one is my favorite. 448 00:24:41,920 --> 00:24:44,200 Speaker 1: You know. It's got little arrows and circles and stuff. 449 00:24:44,200 --> 00:24:47,399 Speaker 1: And I'm like, wow, we're literally handing these two children 450 00:24:47,600 --> 00:24:50,600 Speaker 1: and saying, have at it. Tell me everything you want. 451 00:24:50,920 --> 00:24:54,399 Speaker 1: And that is the message instead of hey, this is 452 00:24:54,440 --> 00:24:57,320 Speaker 1: a beautiful time of year. I love this season. Let's 453 00:24:57,359 --> 00:24:59,840 Speaker 1: go enjoy the snow. Let's go and look at the lights, 454 00:25:00,160 --> 00:25:03,879 Speaker 1: drink warm drinks together, you know, like that coziness, like 455 00:25:03,960 --> 00:25:06,680 Speaker 1: let's look at the twinkle lights and decorate the tree together, 456 00:25:06,800 --> 00:25:09,399 Speaker 1: like that togetherness and that piece and the joy that 457 00:25:09,440 --> 00:25:12,440 Speaker 1: we sing about in our carols. But instead we've kind 458 00:25:12,440 --> 00:25:15,720 Speaker 1: of shifted it all to what the corporations wanted us 459 00:25:16,119 --> 00:25:19,560 Speaker 1: to ask was what do you want? You know? So 460 00:25:19,960 --> 00:25:23,200 Speaker 1: I'm just careful not to talk about toys. They will 461 00:25:23,200 --> 00:25:27,359 Speaker 1: get toys. It will feel magical and exciting, but I 462 00:25:27,480 --> 00:25:32,000 Speaker 1: don't make all of November and December about asking that question. 463 00:25:32,400 --> 00:25:34,640 Speaker 1: So anyway, what are your strategies then when it comes 464 00:25:34,640 --> 00:25:37,159 Speaker 1: to gift giving, because as a minimalist, it can be 465 00:25:37,240 --> 00:25:41,560 Speaker 1: easy to to be like no gifts at all, right, 466 00:25:41,600 --> 00:25:44,640 Speaker 1: like the soup Nazi. But for Christmas gifts maybe nothing 467 00:25:44,680 --> 00:25:48,160 Speaker 1: for you. And so yeah, what like what what would 468 00:25:48,200 --> 00:25:51,000 Speaker 1: you recommend to folks who are saying, yes, you're right, Okay, 469 00:25:51,040 --> 00:25:54,400 Speaker 1: I get it. I see the connection between Christmas and consumerism, 470 00:25:54,440 --> 00:25:57,440 Speaker 1: and I want to make sure that our household isn't 471 00:25:57,480 --> 00:26:00,639 Speaker 1: overdoing it and then my kids aren't becoming like I 472 00:26:00,680 --> 00:26:03,240 Speaker 1: want this, I want that machines, which it's so easy 473 00:26:03,280 --> 00:26:05,320 Speaker 1: to get to this time of year, like how do 474 00:26:05,440 --> 00:26:08,440 Speaker 1: you decide how many gifts gifts you're going to give? 475 00:26:08,480 --> 00:26:12,000 Speaker 1: Like what sort of strategies have you emplemented? Yeah, so 476 00:26:12,800 --> 00:26:14,720 Speaker 1: you know, first of all, would be budget. Don't be 477 00:26:14,800 --> 00:26:17,960 Speaker 1: like me on my first Christmas as a parent and 478 00:26:18,440 --> 00:26:21,920 Speaker 1: not have one. So we have a pretty low one 479 00:26:22,000 --> 00:26:27,000 Speaker 1: now a hundred bucks for event tickets and two hundred 480 00:26:27,000 --> 00:26:32,280 Speaker 1: bucks for both kids combined, and I I get plenty 481 00:26:32,280 --> 00:26:35,160 Speaker 1: of things just with that amount. And then I also 482 00:26:35,280 --> 00:26:38,320 Speaker 1: kind of loosely do the four gift role. Um. You know, 483 00:26:38,359 --> 00:26:41,359 Speaker 1: there's a catchy poem that a lot of minimalists ascribed to, 484 00:26:41,600 --> 00:26:44,600 Speaker 1: and it's something you want, something you need, something to wear, 485 00:26:44,680 --> 00:26:48,080 Speaker 1: something to read. And I do like that, Like if 486 00:26:48,119 --> 00:26:51,480 Speaker 1: you set that up with your kids, that's the expectation, 487 00:26:51,960 --> 00:26:54,639 Speaker 1: you know, like now you do get to pick one 488 00:26:54,720 --> 00:26:58,119 Speaker 1: thing that you want, you know, and then your parents 489 00:26:58,160 --> 00:27:01,640 Speaker 1: probably know best of the thing that you need. And 490 00:27:01,680 --> 00:27:03,720 Speaker 1: then you know, you get to your nice new warm 491 00:27:03,800 --> 00:27:06,640 Speaker 1: clothes and here's some classic books for you to read. 492 00:27:06,720 --> 00:27:10,239 Speaker 1: And so there's these parameters around it, and you know 493 00:27:10,320 --> 00:27:13,359 Speaker 1: that's stuff that's not necessarily going to need to be decluttered. 494 00:27:13,880 --> 00:27:17,080 Speaker 1: Now I haven't quite yet started reciting that poem. To 495 00:27:17,119 --> 00:27:20,639 Speaker 1: my kids. They're still young, but I probably will shift 496 00:27:20,680 --> 00:27:22,040 Speaker 1: to it when they get a little bit older if 497 00:27:22,080 --> 00:27:24,800 Speaker 1: they need some parameters around it. Right now, I just 498 00:27:24,880 --> 00:27:27,280 Speaker 1: kind of keep an ear out to what is that 499 00:27:27,400 --> 00:27:32,360 Speaker 1: one thing that they want, and I try to keep 500 00:27:32,359 --> 00:27:37,240 Speaker 1: it down to about four to five items. And I 501 00:27:37,280 --> 00:27:41,199 Speaker 1: am really mindful and intentional about it, because I'm just 502 00:27:41,240 --> 00:27:44,439 Speaker 1: trying to imagine, will I want to declutter this in 503 00:27:44,480 --> 00:27:46,440 Speaker 1: a month? Like that is kind of a big question. 504 00:27:46,480 --> 00:27:49,719 Speaker 1: I ask myself a lot for birthday presents and Christmas 505 00:27:49,760 --> 00:27:53,879 Speaker 1: presents of will this stick around? What is the length 506 00:27:54,119 --> 00:27:58,240 Speaker 1: on this? The shelf life? Yeah? Yeah, the shelf life, 507 00:27:58,280 --> 00:27:59,920 Speaker 1: because I think how many parts I would think to 508 00:28:00,000 --> 00:28:02,720 Speaker 1: you write like a nerf gun with like add I 509 00:28:02,720 --> 00:28:04,359 Speaker 1: don't know, I don't want that. I mean when it 510 00:28:04,359 --> 00:28:06,480 Speaker 1: comes to our money, I mean, that's oftentimes what we 511 00:28:06,720 --> 00:28:08,800 Speaker 1: should be thinking about. We're not only thinking about the 512 00:28:08,800 --> 00:28:10,240 Speaker 1: feeling that it's going to give us right now what 513 00:28:10,280 --> 00:28:12,679 Speaker 1: we spend. That is certainly something we need to take 514 00:28:12,720 --> 00:28:14,680 Speaker 1: into account, but we also are thinking about those longer 515 00:28:14,760 --> 00:28:17,920 Speaker 1: term goals and thinking through the impact of those items 516 00:28:18,040 --> 00:28:21,480 Speaker 1: on your role as a parent, Like that is something 517 00:28:21,520 --> 00:28:22,840 Speaker 1: you definitely need to think through. How many of these 518 00:28:22,840 --> 00:28:24,199 Speaker 1: little pieces am I going to have to pick up? 519 00:28:24,240 --> 00:28:26,679 Speaker 1: How long with us actually entertain them? And so I 520 00:28:26,760 --> 00:28:28,760 Speaker 1: like that for gift rule though, so it's something you want, 521 00:28:29,000 --> 00:28:33,000 Speaker 1: something you need, something you wear, and then something you read. Okay, 522 00:28:33,000 --> 00:28:35,160 Speaker 1: so a book, okay. I I think about that when 523 00:28:35,160 --> 00:28:37,119 Speaker 1: I think about the fact that, like you've heard of 524 00:28:37,240 --> 00:28:39,400 Speaker 1: the different love languages, I think there's five of them, 525 00:28:39,520 --> 00:28:42,560 Speaker 1: but like gift giving, that is an actual love language. 526 00:28:42,960 --> 00:28:44,719 Speaker 1: And and so I think, well, how do you square 527 00:28:44,760 --> 00:28:46,480 Speaker 1: that with the fact that there's some folks out there 528 00:28:46,680 --> 00:28:49,200 Speaker 1: who really like receiving gifts? But at the same time, 529 00:28:49,640 --> 00:28:52,240 Speaker 1: if you're trying to be minimal, you're at odds with 530 00:28:52,480 --> 00:28:56,160 Speaker 1: that with that behavior. And I feel like quality over 531 00:28:56,240 --> 00:29:00,000 Speaker 1: quantity could be just a good principle to keep in mind. 532 00:29:00,000 --> 00:29:02,000 Speaker 1: And if you have somebody like that in your life, 533 00:29:02,000 --> 00:29:03,880 Speaker 1: is that right? Oh? Yes, I definitely do. I have 534 00:29:03,960 --> 00:29:07,600 Speaker 1: several love language people in my life, and um, it 535 00:29:07,760 --> 00:29:09,520 Speaker 1: is kind of funny to be the author of this 536 00:29:09,560 --> 00:29:14,120 Speaker 1: book and like pass it to them, and and I 537 00:29:14,160 --> 00:29:17,920 Speaker 1: talk about the love languages and how some people truly 538 00:29:17,920 --> 00:29:21,360 Speaker 1: do identify with that of gift giving is their love language. 539 00:29:21,600 --> 00:29:26,560 Speaker 1: If anyone, UM, listens to the minimalists, they will argue 540 00:29:26,640 --> 00:29:30,680 Speaker 1: this point that there is not a fifth love language, 541 00:29:30,960 --> 00:29:34,120 Speaker 1: that gift giving cannot be a love language because love 542 00:29:34,320 --> 00:29:37,880 Speaker 1: is not transactional. And I do like that, but man, 543 00:29:38,040 --> 00:29:40,920 Speaker 1: some people really do feel this way and you can't 544 00:29:41,000 --> 00:29:44,840 Speaker 1: reprogram them. So some of the things that I've learned 545 00:29:45,320 --> 00:29:50,280 Speaker 1: to help with this is one to drop hints, so 546 00:29:50,480 --> 00:29:53,760 Speaker 1: in conversation you don't even have to use fancy words 547 00:29:53,760 --> 00:29:56,680 Speaker 1: like minimalism or decluttering. It kind of scares these people, 548 00:29:57,280 --> 00:30:00,400 Speaker 1: but just to kind of mention, Like I stood this 549 00:30:00,440 --> 00:30:03,800 Speaker 1: the other day um with one of them and said, 550 00:30:03,920 --> 00:30:06,760 Speaker 1: you know, I just went through the kids clothes and 551 00:30:06,920 --> 00:30:09,320 Speaker 1: I wanted to make, you know, see how many winter 552 00:30:09,360 --> 00:30:11,360 Speaker 1: clothes they had and make sure they had everything they 553 00:30:11,400 --> 00:30:15,240 Speaker 1: needed for the winter. And they are set, they have plenty, 554 00:30:15,280 --> 00:30:17,920 Speaker 1: They have more than enough, and we're good for the 555 00:30:17,960 --> 00:30:21,440 Speaker 1: winter because I know this particular person loves to give 556 00:30:21,720 --> 00:30:26,720 Speaker 1: an overabundance of clothes, which is a very you know, generous, wonderful, 557 00:30:26,800 --> 00:30:30,200 Speaker 1: blessed thing to have in your life, but it it 558 00:30:30,400 --> 00:30:33,520 Speaker 1: is um to a level that actually makes my life 559 00:30:33,680 --> 00:30:39,120 Speaker 1: feel overwhelming chaotic. So just dropping hints is a good way, 560 00:30:39,120 --> 00:30:40,680 Speaker 1: and I have a couple of scripts in my book 561 00:30:40,680 --> 00:30:43,280 Speaker 1: where I kind of show examples of what these conversations 562 00:30:43,280 --> 00:30:45,720 Speaker 1: look like and how it can kind of organically flow 563 00:30:45,840 --> 00:30:49,280 Speaker 1: to let them catch your drift. But in case they don't, 564 00:30:49,520 --> 00:30:51,920 Speaker 1: maybe you need to set some limits with your family. 565 00:30:52,360 --> 00:30:54,480 Speaker 1: So we've done this a few times with our extend 566 00:30:54,560 --> 00:30:57,480 Speaker 1: family and it's great. So and it changes every year 567 00:30:57,520 --> 00:31:00,280 Speaker 1: for some reason. You some you think something would dick, 568 00:31:00,480 --> 00:31:05,320 Speaker 1: but sometimes it can look like a financial limit. So 569 00:31:05,400 --> 00:31:08,680 Speaker 1: you can say, okay, we're not spending over per person, 570 00:31:08,920 --> 00:31:11,200 Speaker 1: or fifty dollars or a hundred dollars per person, whatever 571 00:31:11,240 --> 00:31:15,200 Speaker 1: feels right for your family, or it is just one 572 00:31:15,240 --> 00:31:18,680 Speaker 1: item per person within the family, or maybe it's, um, 573 00:31:18,680 --> 00:31:22,600 Speaker 1: we did this one year. We're just exchanging books. Everybody 574 00:31:22,600 --> 00:31:26,000 Speaker 1: pick a book, you know, it can be fiction or nonfiction, 575 00:31:26,200 --> 00:31:30,120 Speaker 1: and that is all we're giving to one another. And yeah, 576 00:31:30,120 --> 00:31:32,880 Speaker 1: that was a really good year. Or I've seen other 577 00:31:32,920 --> 00:31:36,920 Speaker 1: people do okay, only the grand kids and no adults, 578 00:31:37,080 --> 00:31:40,200 Speaker 1: but whatever those parameters are, just get a conversation going 579 00:31:40,240 --> 00:31:43,480 Speaker 1: with your family to start setting some kind of guidelines 580 00:31:43,520 --> 00:31:45,920 Speaker 1: and limits, and you'll probably find that there will be 581 00:31:45,960 --> 00:31:48,840 Speaker 1: relieved for that too, because otherwise they're like, oh my gosh, 582 00:31:48,840 --> 00:31:51,760 Speaker 1: I need to get three things for everybody that you 583 00:31:51,760 --> 00:31:57,600 Speaker 1: know them as well. And you're maybe like that pressure 584 00:31:57,600 --> 00:32:00,480 Speaker 1: release valve by starting that conversation that says, Hey, you 585 00:32:00,520 --> 00:32:02,880 Speaker 1: don't have to live up to these fake expectations that 586 00:32:02,920 --> 00:32:06,200 Speaker 1: nobody actually has of you that the movies make it 587 00:32:06,240 --> 00:32:08,960 Speaker 1: seem like you need to live up to. And so 588 00:32:08,960 --> 00:32:10,600 Speaker 1: so Meg, what do you do, like in the middle 589 00:32:10,760 --> 00:32:14,800 Speaker 1: of a Christmas celebration or a holiday celebration when like 590 00:32:15,480 --> 00:32:19,280 Speaker 1: there there's like a an expectation that hasn't met or 591 00:32:19,560 --> 00:32:22,280 Speaker 1: maybe someone's supersedes that kind of rules that have been 592 00:32:22,320 --> 00:32:25,600 Speaker 1: laid out or in a grandparent like goes over board. 593 00:32:26,200 --> 00:32:28,320 Speaker 1: You say supersed but what you really mean is they 594 00:32:28,360 --> 00:32:31,840 Speaker 1: broke the rule. They broke the ground rules. Yeah, or 595 00:32:31,880 --> 00:32:33,880 Speaker 1: if just like maybe maybe this year it was too 596 00:32:33,960 --> 00:32:36,640 Speaker 1: late and you didn't establish any ground rules and you're like, man, 597 00:32:36,680 --> 00:32:38,960 Speaker 1: they just overdid it. Like how how do you like 598 00:32:39,520 --> 00:32:42,160 Speaker 1: get over having a sour pust liff on your face? Um? 599 00:32:42,720 --> 00:32:45,440 Speaker 1: Because you know what all these additional toys or all 600 00:32:45,480 --> 00:32:48,440 Speaker 1: this additional stuff means for your life and it's not 601 00:32:48,520 --> 00:32:50,920 Speaker 1: something that you're looking to, Like, how do you navigate 602 00:32:50,960 --> 00:32:54,120 Speaker 1: those kind of relational waters. Yeah. I see that a 603 00:32:54,120 --> 00:32:58,800 Speaker 1: lot within the minimalist groups, where people feel like almost 604 00:32:58,800 --> 00:33:01,120 Speaker 1: like the person did it on part purpists, like they 605 00:33:01,160 --> 00:33:03,520 Speaker 1: project that onto them and that it was vicious and 606 00:33:03,560 --> 00:33:06,800 Speaker 1: that they were undermining all of their work. And I 607 00:33:06,880 --> 00:33:08,840 Speaker 1: tell them, they're we're minimalist. I told them not to 608 00:33:08,840 --> 00:33:11,600 Speaker 1: get us anything, and they did it anyway. They're sabotaging me, 609 00:33:11,760 --> 00:33:15,000 Speaker 1: you know. Um, But I have like a whole chapter 610 00:33:15,160 --> 00:33:18,840 Speaker 1: talking about that. You just cannot take this attitude with it. 611 00:33:19,000 --> 00:33:22,360 Speaker 1: No one is trying to sabotage you. It really is 612 00:33:22,400 --> 00:33:26,440 Speaker 1: that you know, love language for them, they feel this way. 613 00:33:26,640 --> 00:33:30,640 Speaker 1: They're not seeing your wish lists, are going by your 614 00:33:30,680 --> 00:33:34,400 Speaker 1: parameters and your guidelines, And you just have to smile 615 00:33:34,640 --> 00:33:37,720 Speaker 1: and give that hug and say thank you and say 616 00:33:37,760 --> 00:33:40,240 Speaker 1: I love you, because that is actually all these people 617 00:33:40,240 --> 00:33:43,560 Speaker 1: are looking for. They're looking for for that validation of 618 00:33:43,680 --> 00:33:48,760 Speaker 1: love and use your manners and but don't let it 619 00:33:48,800 --> 00:33:54,120 Speaker 1: get past the living room. You know, I'm serious. You 620 00:33:54,160 --> 00:33:56,120 Speaker 1: are the person in control, and you just have to 621 00:33:56,160 --> 00:33:59,080 Speaker 1: constantly know that you are in control of what goes 622 00:33:59,120 --> 00:34:01,280 Speaker 1: in your house. You have to be a ruthless editor 623 00:34:01,720 --> 00:34:04,640 Speaker 1: and curator of your literally, don't let those items leave 624 00:34:04,680 --> 00:34:06,000 Speaker 1: the living rooms. What you're saying, I thought you're talking 625 00:34:06,040 --> 00:34:08,320 Speaker 1: about like the emotions, but you're talking about the actual objects. 626 00:34:08,440 --> 00:34:11,680 Speaker 1: I'm talking about the objects because I you know, I 627 00:34:12,239 --> 00:34:14,960 Speaker 1: freaking published a book on this, and I still have 628 00:34:15,160 --> 00:34:20,040 Speaker 1: these people giving me way, way, way too much, giving 629 00:34:20,040 --> 00:34:22,560 Speaker 1: our family and our kids, and it's wonderful. And but 630 00:34:22,719 --> 00:34:26,480 Speaker 1: you know, I get to say, even though this person 631 00:34:26,520 --> 00:34:29,320 Speaker 1: gave me a sweater and as a gift, this sweater 632 00:34:29,400 --> 00:34:33,200 Speaker 1: does not have to go in my closet. You say goodbye, 633 00:34:33,600 --> 00:34:35,799 Speaker 1: you know, Merry Christmas. They go on their way, and 634 00:34:35,840 --> 00:34:39,719 Speaker 1: you just immediately start making decisions. You know, that's when 635 00:34:39,719 --> 00:34:41,839 Speaker 1: you go to your closet and say, okay, is this 636 00:34:41,880 --> 00:34:45,040 Speaker 1: new sweater going to replace an old one? Let's getting 637 00:34:45,040 --> 00:34:47,799 Speaker 1: too worn out if so, pull that other one out 638 00:34:48,120 --> 00:34:52,840 Speaker 1: right now. Don't don't add add two. And I know 639 00:34:52,960 --> 00:34:55,239 Speaker 1: it sounds so horrible and sad to say all loud, 640 00:34:55,280 --> 00:34:57,080 Speaker 1: but man, there are so many things that I don't 641 00:34:57,160 --> 00:35:00,359 Speaker 1: let get past the living room and got it into 642 00:35:00,360 --> 00:35:03,160 Speaker 1: a box, into the trunk and get donated to a 643 00:35:03,200 --> 00:35:05,880 Speaker 1: fabulous thrift shop we have here in town that helps 644 00:35:05,920 --> 00:35:11,560 Speaker 1: women with domestic abuse escaped that and I find someplace 645 00:35:11,600 --> 00:35:15,000 Speaker 1: like that that resonates and makes you feel good so 646 00:35:15,040 --> 00:35:18,279 Speaker 1: that you can let go. Because I know a lot 647 00:35:18,280 --> 00:35:20,759 Speaker 1: of people do have a problem with saying this was 648 00:35:20,800 --> 00:35:22,880 Speaker 1: a gift and therefore I have to keep it. You know, 649 00:35:23,000 --> 00:35:25,239 Speaker 1: I used to be that way. I kept every gift 650 00:35:25,239 --> 00:35:28,000 Speaker 1: ever given to me. Yeah, what's crazy is that at 651 00:35:28,040 --> 00:35:29,799 Speaker 1: the end of a day of exchange of gifts like that. 652 00:35:29,840 --> 00:35:32,160 Speaker 1: I mean, to be honest, that's probably the last thing 653 00:35:32,160 --> 00:35:34,160 Speaker 1: that most folks want to do, right, I mean, they 654 00:35:34,200 --> 00:35:36,239 Speaker 1: just take the item. Folks will leave if you know 655 00:35:36,280 --> 00:35:38,400 Speaker 1: they're leaving the house. And so it's gonna take that 656 00:35:38,480 --> 00:35:41,160 Speaker 1: extra little push, like you said, to make that decision, 657 00:35:41,160 --> 00:35:43,400 Speaker 1: because it's honestly probably gonna be the easiest time to 658 00:35:43,480 --> 00:35:45,759 Speaker 1: make that decision before it ends up sitting in your 659 00:35:45,800 --> 00:35:50,879 Speaker 1: drawer for weeks or months years. Yeah. So you've talked 660 00:35:50,920 --> 00:35:52,560 Speaker 1: about how it is what we can go about buying 661 00:35:52,640 --> 00:35:54,840 Speaker 1: fewer gifts. You talked about how we can communicate with 662 00:35:54,920 --> 00:35:58,480 Speaker 1: family or friends to maybe buy a fewer items for us. 663 00:35:58,760 --> 00:36:01,000 Speaker 1: We're gonna talk next about ways that we can go 664 00:36:01,080 --> 00:36:05,080 Speaker 1: about seeking after a minimalist Christmas at home, and also 665 00:36:05,239 --> 00:36:07,000 Speaker 1: just how we go about doing that with our time, 666 00:36:07,040 --> 00:36:08,760 Speaker 1: with our calendars, and we'll get to both of those 667 00:36:09,040 --> 00:36:20,040 Speaker 1: right after this break. All right, we're back from break 668 00:36:20,160 --> 00:36:23,680 Speaker 1: still talking with Meg Norman about having a minimalist Christmas. 669 00:36:23,960 --> 00:36:26,080 Speaker 1: And Meg, that was just a lot of useful information 670 00:36:26,120 --> 00:36:28,800 Speaker 1: when it comes to navigating the holidays with your kids, 671 00:36:28,840 --> 00:36:31,920 Speaker 1: with your parents, like for yourself. But I want to 672 00:36:32,280 --> 00:36:33,920 Speaker 1: I want to ask you to, like, how does a 673 00:36:33,960 --> 00:36:37,360 Speaker 1: minimalist decorate for Christmas? Because when it comes to putting 674 00:36:37,400 --> 00:36:39,880 Speaker 1: up lights or I'm guessing you don't, how many like 675 00:36:40,239 --> 00:36:42,560 Speaker 1: Christmas blow up decorations in your front yard? Like how 676 00:36:42,600 --> 00:36:45,279 Speaker 1: do you handle the decorating? Yes, we don't have any 677 00:36:45,400 --> 00:36:50,640 Speaker 1: blow up decorations in the yard, but in my life 678 00:36:51,239 --> 00:36:56,000 Speaker 1: in this chapter, it just doesn't work for me. And um, 679 00:36:56,040 --> 00:36:58,799 Speaker 1: it did come down to this realization of I my 680 00:36:58,960 --> 00:37:04,040 Speaker 1: house is a container, you know, and I only have 681 00:37:04,120 --> 00:37:07,279 Speaker 1: so much square footage that I can live in. And 682 00:37:07,360 --> 00:37:10,160 Speaker 1: why is my entire I only have two tiny closets. 683 00:37:10,160 --> 00:37:15,840 Speaker 1: Why is one entire closet basically devoted to Christmas items 684 00:37:15,880 --> 00:37:18,560 Speaker 1: that come out for whopping three or four weeks of 685 00:37:18,600 --> 00:37:21,080 Speaker 1: the year, you know, So how much have you downsized 686 00:37:21,120 --> 00:37:24,400 Speaker 1: then put up? Oh? So we do a small tree 687 00:37:25,000 --> 00:37:29,000 Speaker 1: and I just have to help me with the ornament decluttering. 688 00:37:29,560 --> 00:37:34,320 Speaker 1: I just do red and gold and a little clear icicles. 689 00:37:34,680 --> 00:37:39,160 Speaker 1: So like coming up coming up with some kind of 690 00:37:39,200 --> 00:37:42,520 Speaker 1: color scheme, like some kind of parameter again of like 691 00:37:42,640 --> 00:37:45,560 Speaker 1: this is our color scheme. Yeah, And so it really 692 00:37:45,640 --> 00:37:49,160 Speaker 1: helped me anyway, helped me to let go of because 693 00:37:49,200 --> 00:37:52,200 Speaker 1: I have probably had every trend that has come through 694 00:37:52,200 --> 00:37:54,399 Speaker 1: over the past twenty years, because you know, one year, 695 00:37:54,800 --> 00:37:58,680 Speaker 1: everyone's doing pink Christmas, you know, and so I go 696 00:37:58,760 --> 00:38:02,200 Speaker 1: to hobby lobby and do you know, now it's peppermint Christmas. 697 00:38:02,200 --> 00:38:04,480 Speaker 1: We're all doing candy canes and peppermint stuff. You know, 698 00:38:04,480 --> 00:38:13,440 Speaker 1: I can yeah Christmas. Yeah. Well, let's talk about time 699 00:38:13,480 --> 00:38:15,359 Speaker 1: as well, because I wanted to touch on this because 700 00:38:15,440 --> 00:38:17,400 Speaker 1: last year, right because of COVID, like most of our 701 00:38:17,440 --> 00:38:21,640 Speaker 1: calendars were you know, sparsely populated, like especially around the holidays, 702 00:38:22,040 --> 00:38:25,279 Speaker 1: so like cultivating that manageable pace, it wasn't something we 703 00:38:25,360 --> 00:38:28,799 Speaker 1: had to work towards. But now that's actually changed, you know, 704 00:38:28,840 --> 00:38:30,680 Speaker 1: as many are getting back to normal life, and so 705 00:38:30,719 --> 00:38:33,960 Speaker 1: how do we keep from overwhelming ourselves around the holidays 706 00:38:33,960 --> 00:38:37,120 Speaker 1: with just all the different events exactly. I actually just 707 00:38:37,239 --> 00:38:40,799 Speaker 1: did this, um thirty minutes before our call. I got 708 00:38:40,800 --> 00:38:45,120 Speaker 1: it my calendar, I did. Yeah, And UM I talked 709 00:38:45,120 --> 00:38:47,080 Speaker 1: about in my book, I talked about hard plans and 710 00:38:47,120 --> 00:38:50,799 Speaker 1: loose plans, because again I go back to that like 711 00:38:50,920 --> 00:38:54,600 Speaker 1: first Christmas or two where um, I drug up my 712 00:38:54,640 --> 00:38:58,719 Speaker 1: family around too, probably forty five Christmas events in the 713 00:38:58,760 --> 00:39:02,320 Speaker 1: span of November, and just we live in a very 714 00:39:02,480 --> 00:39:06,120 Speaker 1: arts and cultural kind of place, so there's probably three 715 00:39:06,160 --> 00:39:08,600 Speaker 1: holiday events for every year on the calendar that you 716 00:39:08,640 --> 00:39:11,160 Speaker 1: could go to that are all awesome, you know. And 717 00:39:11,200 --> 00:39:12,520 Speaker 1: I was just like, oh my gosh, we have to 718 00:39:12,560 --> 00:39:13,759 Speaker 1: do this, and now we have to go to the 719 00:39:13,760 --> 00:39:17,240 Speaker 1: farmers market because they have this. And my poor husband 720 00:39:17,320 --> 00:39:21,759 Speaker 1: was just miserable, I mean truly miserable. And I remember 721 00:39:21,800 --> 00:39:26,320 Speaker 1: at one point we were in the freezing cold, um 722 00:39:26,400 --> 00:39:29,560 Speaker 1: launching the sailboat parade because oh my gosh, we live 723 00:39:29,600 --> 00:39:33,120 Speaker 1: on the beach, we have to do this, you know. Yeah, 724 00:39:33,400 --> 00:39:38,279 Speaker 1: And he had a work Christmas party that was more 725 00:39:38,360 --> 00:39:40,719 Speaker 1: important at the time because he was going to work 726 00:39:40,719 --> 00:39:42,560 Speaker 1: and we needed to show face and look good for 727 00:39:42,560 --> 00:39:45,120 Speaker 1: the managers or whatever. But I was like, no, this 728 00:39:45,239 --> 00:39:48,000 Speaker 1: is going to be a family tradition, So we were 729 00:39:48,040 --> 00:39:52,319 Speaker 1: like fighting traffic to do this. Everyone's cold and miserable, 730 00:39:52,600 --> 00:39:54,120 Speaker 1: and we don't even get to see the whole thing 731 00:39:54,160 --> 00:39:55,440 Speaker 1: because now we have to leave and go to that, 732 00:39:55,520 --> 00:39:58,799 Speaker 1: And it made the ride to the Christmas party stressful 733 00:39:58,840 --> 00:40:01,799 Speaker 1: and we're late for the par pretty horrible, and so 734 00:40:01,840 --> 00:40:03,839 Speaker 1: if you can imagine, it kind of felt like that 735 00:40:03,960 --> 00:40:06,360 Speaker 1: like the whole time, and it was just this chaos 736 00:40:06,400 --> 00:40:09,799 Speaker 1: and overwhelmed again when I had all these realizations of like, 737 00:40:09,840 --> 00:40:12,640 Speaker 1: oh my gosh, I need to edit my calendar the 738 00:40:12,680 --> 00:40:16,360 Speaker 1: same way I'm editing my house. So just now I 739 00:40:16,400 --> 00:40:19,120 Speaker 1: got out my calendar and I found my hard plans. 740 00:40:19,239 --> 00:40:22,600 Speaker 1: My hard plans for me are the Nutcracker Ballet, the 741 00:40:22,880 --> 00:40:31,000 Speaker 1: symphony which I'm in, and um, I like to go 742 00:40:31,080 --> 00:40:34,359 Speaker 1: to the Christmas Pride, this one particular one. And then 743 00:40:34,360 --> 00:40:36,280 Speaker 1: there was one other thing. What was oh the meeting 744 00:40:36,320 --> 00:40:38,839 Speaker 1: Santa on the beach. That's a cool thing. So these 745 00:40:38,840 --> 00:40:43,239 Speaker 1: are hard plans because they happened one time, and it 746 00:40:43,320 --> 00:40:46,400 Speaker 1: has a ticket attached to it or a time slot 747 00:40:46,440 --> 00:40:48,799 Speaker 1: attached to it, and so everything has to work around it. 748 00:40:49,040 --> 00:40:52,480 Speaker 1: So I put those in pen on my calendar and 749 00:40:52,520 --> 00:40:55,480 Speaker 1: then I write out my loose plans. So that's more 750 00:40:55,520 --> 00:40:58,000 Speaker 1: like the traditions that I would like ideally like to 751 00:40:58,000 --> 00:41:00,719 Speaker 1: be able to fit in. That would be like a 752 00:41:00,840 --> 00:41:03,440 Speaker 1: night where we bake cookies and do gingerbread man and 753 00:41:03,560 --> 00:41:07,719 Speaker 1: sprinkles and stuff, and maybe watching Charlie Brown Christmas would 754 00:41:07,719 --> 00:41:10,920 Speaker 1: be one. Or actually doing hot Coco with real marshmallows 755 00:41:10,960 --> 00:41:14,320 Speaker 1: on top. These kind of cozy traditions that I would 756 00:41:14,320 --> 00:41:17,439 Speaker 1: like to cultivate in my family. But they don't need 757 00:41:18,040 --> 00:41:22,319 Speaker 1: a hard time to them. And what I'm what I'm 758 00:41:22,320 --> 00:41:25,839 Speaker 1: trying to do is not cram everything into that last 759 00:41:25,920 --> 00:41:29,759 Speaker 1: week so that nothing can be enjoyed. So that way 760 00:41:29,840 --> 00:41:33,000 Speaker 1: I get my hard plans down. I can figure out 761 00:41:33,000 --> 00:41:36,400 Speaker 1: where the discrepancies are and where there's a particular Saturday 762 00:41:36,400 --> 00:41:39,600 Speaker 1: where everything is crammed on that Saturday, and like wo'ldle 763 00:41:39,640 --> 00:41:44,160 Speaker 1: it down again, figuring that out now before the madness, 764 00:41:44,200 --> 00:41:48,240 Speaker 1: before tickets start to sell out and and before people 765 00:41:48,280 --> 00:41:51,240 Speaker 1: start inviting me to things. So that was another big problem. 766 00:41:51,280 --> 00:41:53,440 Speaker 1: I had these things I wanted to go to, but 767 00:41:53,520 --> 00:41:56,920 Speaker 1: then every day another mom friend would text and say, oh, 768 00:41:57,000 --> 00:42:01,320 Speaker 1: so they're doing like pet the Ponies in Elf costumes today, 769 00:42:01,840 --> 00:42:04,200 Speaker 1: you know, And I'm like, oh, that sounds fun. Yeah, 770 00:42:04,280 --> 00:42:06,799 Speaker 1: you know the next thing, you know, I'm but you know, 771 00:42:06,920 --> 00:42:08,640 Speaker 1: now we're exhausted when we can't make it to the 772 00:42:08,719 --> 00:42:11,360 Speaker 1: Nutcracker Ballet because I went pet ponies and elf costumes. 773 00:42:11,680 --> 00:42:14,440 Speaker 1: So you know, I'm just making that up. But but 774 00:42:14,520 --> 00:42:16,320 Speaker 1: you know, I had I have a whole chapter and 775 00:42:16,320 --> 00:42:18,960 Speaker 1: there about how to say no gracefully because that's a 776 00:42:19,000 --> 00:42:22,440 Speaker 1: really hard thing for people, and so editing that calendar 777 00:42:22,760 --> 00:42:25,680 Speaker 1: right now and saying this is what we're doing only 778 00:42:25,719 --> 00:42:29,080 Speaker 1: these five things, these are the five loose things I 779 00:42:29,120 --> 00:42:31,719 Speaker 1: would like to slowly work in, not cram into the 780 00:42:31,800 --> 00:42:34,600 Speaker 1: last week. And that's it. Now I can politely decline 781 00:42:34,600 --> 00:42:37,279 Speaker 1: and say no to the twenty five invitations that I 782 00:42:37,320 --> 00:42:40,759 Speaker 1: get on Facebook in the next two Yeah, Meg, I 783 00:42:40,760 --> 00:42:43,200 Speaker 1: love that. I love that we can, you know, be 784 00:42:43,360 --> 00:42:47,239 Speaker 1: more intentional with our time during the holidays and as 785 00:42:47,280 --> 00:42:49,680 Speaker 1: well as with our gift giving and just kind of 786 00:42:49,719 --> 00:42:52,160 Speaker 1: the barrage of consumerism that hits us in the face 787 00:42:52,200 --> 00:42:54,800 Speaker 1: and we kind of just usually resort to the traditions 788 00:42:54,880 --> 00:42:57,440 Speaker 1: of our families or what we've kind of gotten accustomed 789 00:42:57,480 --> 00:43:00,640 Speaker 1: to doing. If we have our own families now and 790 00:43:00,880 --> 00:43:02,919 Speaker 1: we need to rethink those things because it can lead 791 00:43:02,960 --> 00:43:05,680 Speaker 1: to one a less less of a busted budget, because 792 00:43:05,680 --> 00:43:07,400 Speaker 1: so many people wake up in January and they're like 793 00:43:08,080 --> 00:43:10,120 Speaker 1: they get the credit card bill and they're like, dang it, 794 00:43:10,160 --> 00:43:12,320 Speaker 1: I didn't realize it went that far off the rails. 795 00:43:12,719 --> 00:43:14,400 Speaker 1: And so yeah, I think there's a lot of good 796 00:43:14,440 --> 00:43:17,360 Speaker 1: food for thought in this conversation. We really appreciate you 797 00:43:17,440 --> 00:43:20,560 Speaker 1: joining us. Where can our listeners find out more about you? 798 00:43:21,080 --> 00:43:24,600 Speaker 1: Sure you can find me at Meg Nordman. That's Nordman 799 00:43:24,719 --> 00:43:28,000 Speaker 1: with two ends on the end anywhere online mag Nordman 800 00:43:28,080 --> 00:43:32,480 Speaker 1: dot com, Meg Nordman on Twitter, Instagram. I just love 801 00:43:32,520 --> 00:43:37,480 Speaker 1: to talk about financial independence and freedom from consumerism and 802 00:43:37,640 --> 00:43:42,040 Speaker 1: cultural norms and uh, around the holidays, I focus more 803 00:43:42,080 --> 00:43:45,040 Speaker 1: on on this on how to simplify during the holidays. 804 00:43:45,080 --> 00:43:47,960 Speaker 1: But and you can find my book on Amazon and 805 00:43:48,080 --> 00:43:50,440 Speaker 1: through my website. That's right. Well, And of course this 806 00:43:50,520 --> 00:43:51,879 Speaker 1: is why we wanted to have you on the show, 807 00:43:51,920 --> 00:43:54,000 Speaker 1: because we are all about these things as well. Meg. 808 00:43:54,040 --> 00:43:56,560 Speaker 1: We really appreciate you coming on. Thanks again, Thank you 809 00:43:56,680 --> 00:43:58,960 Speaker 1: so much, Matt and Joel. All right, Joel, that was 810 00:43:59,080 --> 00:44:01,640 Speaker 1: a great conversation we just had with Meg Norman. We 811 00:44:01,680 --> 00:44:05,719 Speaker 1: talked about her book, Have Your Have Yourself Minimalist Christmas. 812 00:44:06,040 --> 00:44:08,680 Speaker 1: Didn't talk about that, the next being crowsby Buddy. The 813 00:44:08,719 --> 00:44:13,160 Speaker 1: fact that minimalist has the same syllables as Mary Little 814 00:44:13,320 --> 00:44:14,840 Speaker 1: or something like that. How does the song about it 815 00:44:15,120 --> 00:44:17,719 Speaker 1: sounds the same? Don't know what I'm talking about. That 816 00:44:17,840 --> 00:44:20,080 Speaker 1: was a smart move on her partner, And everyone demands 817 00:44:20,120 --> 00:44:22,480 Speaker 1: more singing from you on the show, I think not, 818 00:44:22,840 --> 00:44:24,480 Speaker 1: But I think Meg was able to share a lot 819 00:44:24,520 --> 00:44:27,560 Speaker 1: of great takeaways from her book about having a minimal 820 00:44:27,640 --> 00:44:31,239 Speaker 1: minimalist Christmas. What was yours? Okay, So I'll say that 821 00:44:31,280 --> 00:44:32,480 Speaker 1: there were a lot of good things, and I thought 822 00:44:32,520 --> 00:44:35,120 Speaker 1: a lot of the good Christmas specific things were really helpful. 823 00:44:35,560 --> 00:44:38,319 Speaker 1: But I thought, when you take a step back, one 824 00:44:38,360 --> 00:44:41,240 Speaker 1: of the coolest things that she mentioned was that minimalism 825 00:44:41,360 --> 00:44:43,759 Speaker 1: is more than just getting rid of stuff that like 826 00:44:43,840 --> 00:44:46,480 Speaker 1: decluttering is going to impact you in all these other ways. 827 00:44:46,840 --> 00:44:49,759 Speaker 1: So it's it's like you find that as you start 828 00:44:49,800 --> 00:44:52,799 Speaker 1: to purge your house of a bunch of items, you're 829 00:44:52,840 --> 00:44:55,960 Speaker 1: kind of dealing with like some psychological some like mental 830 00:44:56,000 --> 00:44:58,920 Speaker 1: stuff at the same time some part issues. And I 831 00:44:58,960 --> 00:45:01,399 Speaker 1: thought that was like inspiring and it's good to know 832 00:45:01,600 --> 00:45:03,719 Speaker 1: that it's not just throwing stuff in a bin and 833 00:45:03,800 --> 00:45:05,920 Speaker 1: donating it to goodwill. It's like, no, no, no no, no. 834 00:45:06,280 --> 00:45:09,000 Speaker 1: While you're doing this, you're you want to become a 835 00:45:09,040 --> 00:45:13,080 Speaker 1: person who is less attached to things, who is less consumeristic. 836 00:45:13,160 --> 00:45:15,960 Speaker 1: And I think you made a good point earlier in 837 00:45:16,160 --> 00:45:17,840 Speaker 1: our in the conversation with her that it's kind of 838 00:45:17,840 --> 00:45:21,120 Speaker 1: the water we swimming that David Foster Wallace style, Uh, 839 00:45:21,160 --> 00:45:23,880 Speaker 1: you know, water that we swim in. And it's true. 840 00:45:24,000 --> 00:45:26,480 Speaker 1: It's it's hard. You you have to be like incredibly 841 00:45:26,520 --> 00:45:30,560 Speaker 1: purposeful and intentional to to kind of not float the 842 00:45:30,560 --> 00:45:33,520 Speaker 1: mainstream and go in a different direction. But I think 843 00:45:33,640 --> 00:45:36,360 Speaker 1: doing so is going to be a benefit not to 844 00:45:36,440 --> 00:45:38,560 Speaker 1: just like the amount of clutter that's in your house, 845 00:45:38,600 --> 00:45:40,480 Speaker 1: but the kind of person you're becoming, the kind of 846 00:45:40,480 --> 00:45:42,799 Speaker 1: person you're becoming in the amount of money that you 847 00:45:42,840 --> 00:45:44,160 Speaker 1: have at the end of the day as well. And 848 00:45:44,280 --> 00:45:47,040 Speaker 1: she talked about Marie Condo and how okay, the question 849 00:45:47,080 --> 00:45:48,719 Speaker 1: that you know she always has on her show in 850 00:45:48,719 --> 00:45:52,240 Speaker 1: her book, does the spark joy? And they talked about how, well, shoot, 851 00:45:52,280 --> 00:45:53,920 Speaker 1: I've got a lot of things that spark joy in 852 00:45:53,920 --> 00:45:56,839 Speaker 1: my life, and so oftentimes what comes down to is 853 00:45:57,000 --> 00:45:59,719 Speaker 1: determining what your parameters are going to be that are 854 00:45:59,719 --> 00:46:02,640 Speaker 1: going to dictate your future decisions, right, And this specifically 855 00:46:02,640 --> 00:46:06,120 Speaker 1: came out when she was talking about like decorating. She's 856 00:46:06,120 --> 00:46:08,480 Speaker 1: She's like, Okay, it's got to be gold or read 857 00:46:08,680 --> 00:46:11,319 Speaker 1: right when it comes to the holidays, because that's how 858 00:46:11,560 --> 00:46:13,080 Speaker 1: she was like, that's how I'm going to decorate my house. 859 00:46:13,320 --> 00:46:15,000 Speaker 1: And she talked about it as well when it comes 860 00:46:15,040 --> 00:46:19,080 Speaker 1: to her calendar. You know, she had like these hard plans, 861 00:46:19,160 --> 00:46:22,000 Speaker 1: things that she wasn't going to be flexible on. But 862 00:46:22,080 --> 00:46:25,000 Speaker 1: I think it comes down to essentially creating rules and 863 00:46:25,040 --> 00:46:27,680 Speaker 1: determining how many events am I willing to take on 864 00:46:27,719 --> 00:46:29,480 Speaker 1: per weekend, how many events am I going to have 865 00:46:29,640 --> 00:46:32,319 Speaker 1: even in one day, and sticking with those rules, Because 866 00:46:32,320 --> 00:46:34,719 Speaker 1: when we purge things from our lives, that's kind of 867 00:46:34,719 --> 00:46:37,320 Speaker 1: looked taking a reflective look on things that we've almost 868 00:46:37,320 --> 00:46:39,240 Speaker 1: already done, right, Like, these are things that have happened 869 00:46:39,239 --> 00:46:40,759 Speaker 1: in the past, and we do need to do those 870 00:46:40,800 --> 00:46:42,399 Speaker 1: things to kind of get us up to speed where 871 00:46:42,400 --> 00:46:44,440 Speaker 1: we currently are. But then moving forward, how do we 872 00:46:44,520 --> 00:46:47,560 Speaker 1: keep ourselves from having to have these big purges where 873 00:46:47,560 --> 00:46:50,400 Speaker 1: we have to spend all day looking back and determining 874 00:46:50,920 --> 00:46:52,319 Speaker 1: what it is we're gonna keep. What it is we're 875 00:46:52,320 --> 00:46:54,520 Speaker 1: gonna get rid of, Well, it's rules, it's parameters. Is 876 00:46:54,640 --> 00:46:57,480 Speaker 1: having this filter that you run all of your decisions through. 877 00:46:57,520 --> 00:47:00,480 Speaker 1: It's like this little decision make making matrix that you've 878 00:47:00,520 --> 00:47:02,880 Speaker 1: created in your own head, and that's going to determine 879 00:47:03,160 --> 00:47:05,120 Speaker 1: what it is that you you keep around. I feel 880 00:47:05,120 --> 00:47:06,960 Speaker 1: like the example that she gave about receiving like that 881 00:47:07,040 --> 00:47:10,160 Speaker 1: sweater and immediately making the decision is this a keeper 882 00:47:10,480 --> 00:47:12,040 Speaker 1: or is this? Is this a honor? And it's only 883 00:47:12,040 --> 00:47:14,680 Speaker 1: a keeper if it's replacing another. Like, I thought that 884 00:47:14,719 --> 00:47:16,880 Speaker 1: was brilliant because oftentimes what we do is like, Okay, 885 00:47:16,880 --> 00:47:20,000 Speaker 1: I'm gonna say that for later, and we end up 886 00:47:20,680 --> 00:47:23,320 Speaker 1: washing it or putting it in the closet, which doesn't 887 00:47:23,320 --> 00:47:25,239 Speaker 1: need anything else to go into the closet, and then 888 00:47:25,360 --> 00:47:27,560 Speaker 1: it starts getting more hard to navigate. And if you 889 00:47:27,560 --> 00:47:29,839 Speaker 1: don't have the rules rules, If you don't have the rules, 890 00:47:29,880 --> 00:47:32,080 Speaker 1: every decision becomes harder because you have to figure it 891 00:47:32,080 --> 00:47:34,200 Speaker 1: out on a case by case basis. Exactly when you 892 00:47:34,239 --> 00:47:37,600 Speaker 1: have rules, it informs pretty immediately you say, well, obviously 893 00:47:37,600 --> 00:47:39,560 Speaker 1: this is the rule I live by, and so I'm 894 00:47:39,600 --> 00:47:41,719 Speaker 1: not going to violate that, and and you're right, Like, 895 00:47:41,800 --> 00:47:44,520 Speaker 1: I'm I appreciate you saying that because I am like 896 00:47:44,600 --> 00:47:46,560 Speaker 1: the opposite of a rules person, like an out back 897 00:47:46,600 --> 00:47:49,960 Speaker 1: stakhouse very much. No rules, just right is my motto. 898 00:47:50,080 --> 00:47:52,000 Speaker 1: And and so but I need more of those rules 899 00:47:52,080 --> 00:47:54,920 Speaker 1: in my life too, because I do get overwhelmed sometimes 900 00:47:54,960 --> 00:47:57,799 Speaker 1: by the amount of choice. And I like choice, I 901 00:47:57,880 --> 00:48:00,160 Speaker 1: like options, and I like novelty. And I am not 902 00:48:00,239 --> 00:48:03,399 Speaker 1: a minimalist. I will, I will openly confess, but this 903 00:48:03,440 --> 00:48:05,719 Speaker 1: episode talking with Meg does make me want to incorporate 904 00:48:05,960 --> 00:48:09,560 Speaker 1: more of those principles in my life, even if becoming uh, 905 00:48:09,960 --> 00:48:13,040 Speaker 1: you know, one of the supermintalist people is not really um, 906 00:48:13,120 --> 00:48:15,000 Speaker 1: it doesn't sound appealing to me. Yeah, you can still 907 00:48:15,080 --> 00:48:17,879 Speaker 1: use some of those same principles just to inform your 908 00:48:17,960 --> 00:48:19,960 Speaker 1: living and the decisions that you make so that you 909 00:48:20,080 --> 00:48:22,840 Speaker 1: just have a happier life. And again, obviously this is 910 00:48:22,880 --> 00:48:24,520 Speaker 1: how the money and so we want you to implement 911 00:48:24,560 --> 00:48:26,359 Speaker 1: these rules as well because we think that they can 912 00:48:26,400 --> 00:48:28,839 Speaker 1: help you to save more of your money. Yeah, did 913 00:48:28,840 --> 00:48:32,400 Speaker 1: you did you hear about Meg's budget for Christmas? It 914 00:48:32,560 --> 00:48:34,719 Speaker 1: was like what two hund bucks for gifts? And she says, 915 00:48:34,719 --> 00:48:36,000 Speaker 1: I stick. I stick to that, and it was what 916 00:48:36,239 --> 00:48:39,200 Speaker 1: a hundred bucks for kid? Yeah? Yeah, per kid? And 917 00:48:39,320 --> 00:48:42,280 Speaker 1: so those are the kind of rules too. That's another rule, 918 00:48:42,360 --> 00:48:44,480 Speaker 1: and that rule helps you save money, and of course 919 00:48:44,600 --> 00:48:47,239 Speaker 1: that's that's ultimately what we want for you exactly. And 920 00:48:47,280 --> 00:48:49,239 Speaker 1: when it came to her plans, you know, she was 921 00:48:49,239 --> 00:48:50,799 Speaker 1: talking about how those are hard plans, but I feel 922 00:48:50,800 --> 00:48:54,319 Speaker 1: like that those would be hard guidelines that determine how 923 00:48:54,360 --> 00:48:56,680 Speaker 1: she spends her money when it comes to gifts. But yeah, 924 00:48:56,719 --> 00:48:58,160 Speaker 1: I think there's a lot here that you can take 925 00:48:58,200 --> 00:49:00,120 Speaker 1: from this conversation and imply it to your life and 926 00:49:00,280 --> 00:49:02,520 Speaker 1: think about how it is that you can weave some 927 00:49:02,600 --> 00:49:05,080 Speaker 1: of these takeaways into your own life. But Joe, let's 928 00:49:05,080 --> 00:49:07,360 Speaker 1: mention the beer that you and I enjoyed on this episode. 929 00:49:07,760 --> 00:49:09,880 Speaker 1: This was a fantastic beer. By the way, let the 930 00:49:09,920 --> 00:49:11,319 Speaker 1: cart get ahead of the horse a little bit. Let 931 00:49:11,320 --> 00:49:13,200 Speaker 1: me share the name of this beer, which was called 932 00:49:13,280 --> 00:49:18,480 Speaker 1: Empire of Eternal Nothingness, which is a beer by Burial 933 00:49:18,520 --> 00:49:21,160 Speaker 1: out of Asheville, North Carolina. Maybe a metaphor for Christmas 934 00:49:21,200 --> 00:49:25,000 Speaker 1: pen Hey maybe so? Man, this was a really big, 935 00:49:25,120 --> 00:49:27,719 Speaker 1: flavorful stout. What are your thoughts on it? Um? I 936 00:49:27,760 --> 00:49:30,880 Speaker 1: loved it. I really truly loved it. Had some great 937 00:49:31,040 --> 00:49:34,000 Speaker 1: chocolate vibes coming through, some of those dark chocolate notes, 938 00:49:34,320 --> 00:49:35,920 Speaker 1: but at the same time, it was like it was 939 00:49:35,960 --> 00:49:39,080 Speaker 1: just really really dark and beastly. I mean, this was 940 00:49:39,120 --> 00:49:42,719 Speaker 1: a mammoth stout, and I'd like a big stout it's not, 941 00:49:43,200 --> 00:49:45,400 Speaker 1: especially as we're getting into these colder months. I'm like, 942 00:49:45,640 --> 00:49:47,799 Speaker 1: that's perfect. Bring on all the big stouts. So this 943 00:49:47,840 --> 00:49:50,920 Speaker 1: one is was just delicious and burial. I don't think 944 00:49:50,960 --> 00:49:53,600 Speaker 1: I've had a bad beer from them yet, and they 945 00:49:53,640 --> 00:49:56,000 Speaker 1: just seemed to knock it out of the park every time. Yeah, 946 00:49:56,000 --> 00:49:57,880 Speaker 1: so I definitely had some of those coconut notes going on, 947 00:49:58,120 --> 00:49:59,799 Speaker 1: and I still think that we might have a few 948 00:50:00,000 --> 00:50:03,440 Speaker 1: more Almon Joys laying around the house from Halloween as 949 00:50:03,480 --> 00:50:06,160 Speaker 1: far as the Halloween candy. But it totally had some 950 00:50:06,200 --> 00:50:10,359 Speaker 1: of those chocolate e coconutty vibes going on in this beer. Uh. 951 00:50:10,400 --> 00:50:13,120 Speaker 1: It said it was like double DiPT like, which makes 952 00:50:13,120 --> 00:50:16,000 Speaker 1: me just picture like candy barget and maybe yeah yeah, 953 00:50:16,000 --> 00:50:17,920 Speaker 1: and just like I don't know, double the flavor, but 954 00:50:18,200 --> 00:50:20,520 Speaker 1: as well as bourbon vanilla in this beer as well, 955 00:50:20,560 --> 00:50:22,920 Speaker 1: and you could totally taste those warming notes that you 956 00:50:22,920 --> 00:50:25,080 Speaker 1: would get from just kind of a nice pore of 957 00:50:25,560 --> 00:50:28,280 Speaker 1: bourbon neat where it's just kind of nice and warming. 958 00:50:28,560 --> 00:50:30,160 Speaker 1: Those are also the kind of flavors that you you 959 00:50:30,200 --> 00:50:32,359 Speaker 1: want out of a massive stout like this. I'm glad 960 00:50:32,400 --> 00:50:33,600 Speaker 1: you and I got to share this one today on 961 00:50:33,640 --> 00:50:36,600 Speaker 1: the show. Seriously would recommend any of Burials beers, but 962 00:50:36,719 --> 00:50:40,600 Speaker 1: especially some of these crazy off the wall stouts. But Joel, 963 00:50:40,640 --> 00:50:42,759 Speaker 1: that's gonna be it for this episode. Listeners can fund 964 00:50:42,760 --> 00:50:44,680 Speaker 1: our show notes up on our website at how the 965 00:50:44,760 --> 00:50:46,279 Speaker 1: Money dot com and will make sure to link to 966 00:50:46,320 --> 00:50:49,040 Speaker 1: Meg's site as well as her book. That's right, some 967 00:50:49,080 --> 00:50:52,160 Speaker 1: good tips in there for making sure your Christmas is 968 00:50:52,400 --> 00:50:55,319 Speaker 1: just a little more minimalist than it was in years past. 969 00:50:55,360 --> 00:50:57,080 Speaker 1: But that I'll do it for this one. Until next time, 970 00:50:57,440 --> 00:51:10,640 Speaker 1: Best Friends Out, Best Friends Out.