WEBVTT - Listener Mail: Dirge for the Assassins

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<v Speaker 1>Welcome to Stuff to Blow Your Mind, a production of iHeartRadio.

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<v Speaker 2>Hey you welcome to Stuff to Blow your Mind. Listener mail.

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<v Speaker 2>My name is Robert Lamb.

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<v Speaker 3>Here we are again, and I'm Joe McCormick, and it's Monday,

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<v Speaker 3>the day of each week that we read back messages

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<v Speaker 3>from the Stuff to Blow Your Mind email address. If

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<v Speaker 3>you have never gotten in touch with the show before,

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<v Speaker 3>you should email us at contact at stuff to Blow

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<v Speaker 3>your Mind dot com. We appreciate any kind of feedback

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<v Speaker 3>to the show, or just anything interesting you'd like to share.

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<v Speaker 3>We especially like it if you have something fascinating to

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<v Speaker 3>add to a topic we've recently covered on the show.

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<v Speaker 3>Let's see Rob, I think I'm going to kick things

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<v Speaker 3>off today with one of these messages. In response to

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<v Speaker 3>our series on dust, Let's do it So. One of

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<v Speaker 3>the things we talked about in part five of that

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<v Speaker 3>series was about dust storms and about the threat dust

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<v Speaker 3>storms to machinery and vehicles. You don't want to drive

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<v Speaker 3>in a dust storm, but you also just don't want

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<v Speaker 3>to get too much dust into your vehicle, engine and stuff.

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<v Speaker 3>And Thatcher writes in on that topic, Thatcher says, Hello,

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<v Speaker 3>he talked about dust damaging vehicles. In your part five episode,

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<v Speaker 3>I wanted to add that dust can clog air intake

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<v Speaker 3>filters very quickly. My friend was a first responder on

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<v Speaker 3>nine to eleven and when he drove his truck home afterward,

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<v Speaker 3>he noticed that it had reduced power and wasn't and

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<v Speaker 3>just wasn't performing the way it usually does. When he

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<v Speaker 3>checked the air intake filter to the engine, it was

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<v Speaker 3>completely clogged with concrete dust from the twin towers. I

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<v Speaker 3>wonder if any other listeners have had similar experiences. Thank

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<v Speaker 3>you for a wonderful show. I've been listening for many,

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<v Speaker 3>many years, and I look forward to each episode every week.

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<v Speaker 2>Thatcher, Oh wow, that's quite a story there.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, obviously for how it connects to nine to eleven,

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<v Speaker 3>but also I I mean, I wonder if different types

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<v Speaker 3>of dust have a different sort of engine clogging or

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<v Speaker 3>machinery wrecking powers, Like if concrete dust is of a

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<v Speaker 3>finer grain than the standard kind of dust you'd get

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<v Speaker 3>blowing in and say a natural dust storm coming off

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<v Speaker 3>of the desert or something. I don't know for sure,

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<v Speaker 3>but yeah, that's interesting either way, and one of many

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<v Speaker 3>reasons not to drive in in clouds of dust.

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<v Speaker 2>All right. This next one comes to us from Jeff,

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<v Speaker 2>and I think this one's kind of dual purpose because

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<v Speaker 2>into a little bit of dust and a little bit

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<v Speaker 2>of weird house cinema. The subject line is dust wind Dude.

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<v Speaker 2>Jeff writes, greeting science humans. Just wanted to thank you

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<v Speaker 2>again for the variety of topics you investigate on your shows.

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<v Speaker 2>It's probably the greatest era of earth history for laundry

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<v Speaker 2>and other chores. My primary interest in horn dust is

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<v Speaker 2>the way it activates cheap mode for sunset photography. You

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<v Speaker 2>don't have to have nice equipment or much skill. You

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<v Speaker 2>don't have to be on the shore or at altitude.

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<v Speaker 2>Just point your phone west at Golden Hour with an

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<v Speaker 2>appealingly shaped something silhouetted in the foreground, and for a

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<v Speaker 2>spectacular photo with a brilliant orange background. Turns a quick

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<v Speaker 2>snap of a telephone pole or a corner convenience store

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<v Speaker 2>into frameable art and other dusty news. I've always thought

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<v Speaker 2>the Sandman was an explanation for the gross sand in

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<v Speaker 2>your eyes when you wake up. I also wanted to

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<v Speaker 2>thank you for opening up old memories of Dragonslayer. Unlike

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<v Speaker 2>some of the other eighties movies, you've featured. I hadn't

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<v Speaker 2>thought much of it since those endless summers of HBO

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<v Speaker 2>couch time. I haven't played YouTube clips of favorite scenes,

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<v Speaker 2>hunted down the soundtrack, imdbat, which actor played the wizard, etc.

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<v Speaker 2>Those memories were all locked away, waiting to be reactivated

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<v Speaker 2>by your show. The moments that immediately jumped into my

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<v Speaker 2>mind were telling the horrible baby dragons devouring the sacrifice,

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<v Speaker 2>the hero levitating the egg, thus proving he actually did

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<v Speaker 2>have access to real magic, the half second of partial

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<v Speaker 2>nudity during the reveal scene at the pond, smashing the

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<v Speaker 2>amulet for the win. What I definitely didn't process back

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<v Speaker 2>then was the parallel between the old Wizards sizing up

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<v Speaker 2>the value of the remainder of his life and the

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<v Speaker 2>dragon doing the same, putting their energy into the generation

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<v Speaker 2>to come. Jeff continues here he says time is a

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<v Speaker 2>relentless B word. This is the longer of the two

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<v Speaker 2>B words. I'll let you figure out the rest, just

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<v Speaker 2>being just out of an abundance of caution. We don't

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<v Speaker 2>even get flagged or labeled with anything on any of

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<v Speaker 2>the podcast publication systems without due reason.

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<v Speaker 3>I think we're getting rated by AI or something.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah. Anyway, Jeff says, as is often highlighted when you're

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<v Speaker 2>doing the connection segment and you note how many of

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<v Speaker 2>the people involved are no longer with us. I'll think

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<v Speaker 2>that can't be right. But forty years to the average

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<v Speaker 2>age of a competent artist, and you're bound to see

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<v Speaker 2>a fair bit of that. On a happier note, thanks

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<v Speaker 2>for featuring Return to Oz on Weird House. I must

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<v Speaker 2>have passed on it when I was a kid, since

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<v Speaker 2>the original somehow never made much of an impression on me.

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<v Speaker 2>I've always been allergic to musicals. However, after watching the

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<v Speaker 2>delightful Ladies movie on your recommendation, I've since read all

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<v Speaker 2>of the original L. Frank Baum Oz books, as well

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<v Speaker 2>as some of his other works. The movie had the

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<v Speaker 2>benefit of being based on the second and third OZ books,

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<v Speaker 2>which I thought were the best. They aren't exactly great literature,

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<v Speaker 2>but they are fun reads, and it's fascinating trying to

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<v Speaker 2>figure out what was going on in BAM's mind as

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<v Speaker 2>he wrote them. He led an interesting life and had

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<v Speaker 2>interesting friends. What was he trying to tell the children?

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<v Speaker 2>The running dialogue he had with his fans, and the

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<v Speaker 2>preface of each book was almost as entertaining as the

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<v Speaker 2>stories themselves. After a while, Bomb got sick of writing

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<v Speaker 2>about Oz. He wrote other sorts of stories, but they

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<v Speaker 2>didn't sell as well. He tried Oz books with different protagonists,

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<v Speaker 2>but the kids constantly bombarded him with letters saying, that's nice,

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<v Speaker 2>but what our Dorothy and Toto up to. He seemed

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<v Speaker 2>increasingly exasperated as the series went on, but kept a

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<v Speaker 2>sense of humor about it. Sometimes he would drop Dorothy

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<v Speaker 2>and other fan favorites into an unrelated story, the same

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<v Speaker 2>way Marvel editors used to try to punch up sales

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<v Speaker 2>by adding Wolverine to a given title. Oh, I mean

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<v Speaker 2>now I'm excited about Wolverine and Oz. So someone's done it.

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<v Speaker 2>Someone's done it, I'm sure, so write in and tell

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<v Speaker 2>us about it. The fan interaction reminded me of old

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<v Speaker 2>school comic book letters pages. Bomb's books actually had a

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<v Speaker 2>lot of shared DNA with comics, including crossovers, shared universes,

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<v Speaker 2>and retcons. The explanation for why Toto didn't speak in

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<v Speaker 2>the first book when other mundane animals gained the ability

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<v Speaker 2>to talk in Oz gave me one of the better

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<v Speaker 2>laughs in the series.

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<v Speaker 3>I love that Jeff alludes to that, but then doesn't

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<v Speaker 3>tell us what the explanation is.

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<v Speaker 2>Was there an explanation? They didn't get into it and

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<v Speaker 2>return to Ozy. I don't recall, I don't even.

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<v Speaker 3>Recall the chicken talks, doesn't it?

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah? Anyway, Jeff continues. He probably also responded to parental

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<v Speaker 2>feed back in that the Tin Woodman and the Cowardly

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<v Speaker 2>Lion become much less murderous as the series continues. They

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<v Speaker 2>have a pretty high kill count in the early books,

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<v Speaker 2>but the stories remain suburbly superbly weird. Once the rules

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<v Speaker 2>established that no one can die in Oz itself, Bomb

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<v Speaker 2>goes full Cronenberg with the possibilities of characters who can

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<v Speaker 2>be carved up without experiencing the sweet release of death.

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<v Speaker 2>The original story of the Tin Woodsmen and his ramifications

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<v Speaker 2>are most horrible in a fun way. One king would

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<v Speaker 2>punish subjects by having two people cut in half lengthwise

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<v Speaker 2>and the mismatched parts sewn together. Both beings retained their

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<v Speaker 2>sense of self and let a miserable existence in control

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<v Speaker 2>of only one half of their body, with the other's

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<v Speaker 2>thoughts intruding upon their own. There are also more beasts

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<v Speaker 2>who fling their own heads at our heroes. Lots of

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<v Speaker 2>monster fact material in those books. Good to know. Thanks

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<v Speaker 2>again for continuing to direct us to new piles of

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<v Speaker 2>weirdness to explore.

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<v Speaker 3>Jeff Man love a beast that throws its own head.

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<v Speaker 2>Absolutely, Oh well, there's a lot of great stuff in

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<v Speaker 2>this uh this feedback, I will say on the connections,

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<v Speaker 2>you know note in older movies, Yeah, it is always

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<v Speaker 2>it can be a little sad, little little sobering, you know,

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<v Speaker 2>to look at up the cast and crew for a

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<v Speaker 2>film and realize that, like everybody's dead. Like sometimes it's

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<v Speaker 2>you know, the cast, it'll be everybody's dead except for

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<v Speaker 2>the child actors or maybe and or maybe one of

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<v Speaker 2>the leading ladies. That sort of thing. I don't know,

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<v Speaker 2>it's just, uh, it's that's how it goes.

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<v Speaker 3>But especially when it doesn't feel like an especially old movie.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, yeah, it's true. I mean, you know, some of

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<v Speaker 2>these these folks that are relatively young. But on the

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<v Speaker 2>other hand, it's also kind of refreshing when we cover

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<v Speaker 2>a movie and I'm going through the connections, I'm like, oh,

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<v Speaker 2>I think everybody's alive. It happens every now and then

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<v Speaker 2>it's like like like winning at Bingo.

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<v Speaker 3>I do think this is funny hearing about Baum getting

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<v Speaker 3>the same kinds of messages that that fans are like

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<v Speaker 3>posting to internet forums and on Twitter today about their

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<v Speaker 3>favorite comic book, movies or whatever. It's that like, I

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<v Speaker 3>didn't like that this character wasn't included. How can it

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<v Speaker 3>be that the animals talk in OZ but this animal

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<v Speaker 3>doesn't talk. Doesn't make any sense, you.

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<v Speaker 2>Know, I don't think I've ever read any of his works,

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<v Speaker 2>so occasionally emails like this recommendations from various folks, it

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<v Speaker 2>makes me want to check it out. It does sound

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<v Speaker 2>fabulously weird.

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<v Speaker 3>Now, as to Jeff's note about wondering if the story

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<v Speaker 3>of the sand Man putting sand in the child's eyes

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<v Speaker 3>to make them sleep, the explanation you gave in the episode,

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<v Speaker 3>Rob made a lot of sense to me, because you know,

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<v Speaker 3>sand would make you rub your eyes, and you rub

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<v Speaker 3>your eyes when you're sleepy. But Steve also agreed with

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<v Speaker 3>this explanation of it basically having to do with eye cruds.

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<v Speaker 3>So Steve wrote in and said, Hi, Robin Joe, it's

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<v Speaker 3>been a while, but in listening to your Sandman discussions

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<v Speaker 3>from the very dust, I remember to question I never

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<v Speaker 3>found an answer to in my childhood. When I was

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<v Speaker 3>a little boy, the first time I woke up with

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<v Speaker 3>eye crust in the corners of my eyes, I asked

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<v Speaker 3>my mom, is this sand Is this why people used

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<v Speaker 3>to talk about the sand Man? She did not know.

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<v Speaker 3>I still wonder if there's a connection to the myth

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<v Speaker 3>or folk tale. Then Steve provides a link and asks

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<v Speaker 3>if we can confirm or dismiss his hypothesis. Steve, I

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<v Speaker 3>doubt we can settle this one for you, But you

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<v Speaker 3>and Jeff are thinking on the same frequency. Okay, Rob,

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<v Speaker 3>do you mind if I read this message from Luisa?

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, let's have it.

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<v Speaker 3>Okay, Luisa says, Hi, Guys, who would have thought that

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<v Speaker 3>something as mundane as dust would be interesting enough for

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<v Speaker 3>five episodes? Only you? I kept putting this email off,

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<v Speaker 3>expecting you to talk about dust in literature, but you

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<v Speaker 3>either still have to release part six or that's it

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<v Speaker 3>for the series. That is it for the series for now?

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<v Speaker 3>We're done for now, Luisa says, Just in case you

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<v Speaker 3>don't get around to it, I would like to remind

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<v Speaker 3>you of the role that dust plays in George Orwell's

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<v Speaker 3>nineteen eighty four In the plot. Dust plays a symbolic

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<v Speaker 3>part and is all pervasive, just as much as Big Brother.

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<v Speaker 3>The main character. Winston begins the book feeling protected by

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<v Speaker 3>it and ends up feeling completely overwhelmed. It is everywhere,

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<v Speaker 3>and it also represents his own unraveling. I cannot find

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<v Speaker 3>a better literary use of dust in a plot. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 3>I do remember a lot of references to dust. In

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<v Speaker 3>nineteen eighty four. I think Winston talks about his neighbor

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<v Speaker 3>in his apartment building, Missus Parsons, having creases in her

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<v Speaker 3>face that always looked as if dust was trapped in

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<v Speaker 3>the creases. And it's like a detail he mentions over

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<v Speaker 3>and over, as if it represents some kind of like

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<v Speaker 3>decay of life itself. You know, there's just kind of

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<v Speaker 3>like ash and grime building up on our bodies. And

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<v Speaker 3>there's one part where Winston thinking about sort of the

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<v Speaker 3>general hopelessness of life under the Party and Big Brother,

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<v Speaker 3>and he describes London as quote vast and ruinous, a

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<v Speaker 3>city of a million dust bins. I think that's a

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<v Speaker 3>really striking image. It's like it selects as the defining

0:12:16.960 --> 0:12:21.160
<v Speaker 3>object of a civilization, the place where waste is discarded,

0:12:22.120 --> 0:12:24.840
<v Speaker 3>and it actually reminds me of those visions of the

0:12:24.920 --> 0:12:27.400
<v Speaker 3>underworld of the dead and the epic of Gilgamesh, you know,

0:12:27.440 --> 0:12:29.880
<v Speaker 3>the house of dust, where dust is their food and

0:12:29.960 --> 0:12:32.680
<v Speaker 3>clay is their bread. But anyway, to come back to

0:12:32.800 --> 0:12:36.280
<v Speaker 3>Luisa's message, Luisa says, I can, however, tell you that

0:12:36.400 --> 0:12:38.600
<v Speaker 3>I used to think dust was the bane of my

0:12:38.679 --> 0:12:43.520
<v Speaker 3>domestic existence until I had German shepherds. Every time the

0:12:43.559 --> 0:12:46.960
<v Speaker 3>female sheds, it's like brushing out another dog from her.

0:12:47.320 --> 0:12:51.080
<v Speaker 3>I'm seriously considering buying a loom and making dog thread.

0:12:52.120 --> 0:12:54.960
<v Speaker 3>Wait didn't In one of our episodes we talked about, like,

0:12:55.400 --> 0:12:57.920
<v Speaker 3>you know, boutique clothing made out of dust bunnies.

0:12:59.360 --> 0:13:01.319
<v Speaker 2>We discussed the possibility.

0:13:01.720 --> 0:13:04.040
<v Speaker 3>Maybe I brought it up and you were you shamed

0:13:04.120 --> 0:13:04.840
<v Speaker 3>me for doing so.

0:13:05.000 --> 0:13:06.199
<v Speaker 2>I don't remember shaming you.

0:13:07.840 --> 0:13:08.800
<v Speaker 3>I deserve to be share.

0:13:08.880 --> 0:13:10.559
<v Speaker 2>I have questions about how it would work, but.

0:13:12.440 --> 0:13:15.400
<v Speaker 3>Let's see. Luisa says, thanks so much, as always for

0:13:15.440 --> 0:13:18.560
<v Speaker 3>your wonderful work. Best regards, Luisa. Oh, and then she

0:13:18.600 --> 0:13:22.559
<v Speaker 3>attaches a picture of the hair from her dog, Alma.

0:13:23.800 --> 0:13:26.800
<v Speaker 3>This is the hair shed in one sitting. That is

0:13:27.840 --> 0:13:31.439
<v Speaker 3>truly wow. That it's a lot of hair. But I

0:13:31.840 --> 0:13:34.880
<v Speaker 3>know a lot about shedding dogs. I've had my share

0:13:34.920 --> 0:13:37.920
<v Speaker 3>of shedding dogs in my life too, and they can whoo,

0:13:38.080 --> 0:13:39.680
<v Speaker 3>they can they can shed a storm.

0:13:40.280 --> 0:13:42.760
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, that's a lot. I have to stay on top

0:13:42.800 --> 0:13:46.920
<v Speaker 2>of our cat with the ferminator, but still not quite

0:13:46.960 --> 0:13:48.439
<v Speaker 2>this much for he comes out.

0:13:48.679 --> 0:13:50.240
<v Speaker 3>Does your cat like the ferminator?

0:13:50.960 --> 0:13:54.079
<v Speaker 2>Well, she loves the brush, and then she'll tolerate the ferminator.

0:13:54.120 --> 0:13:55.800
<v Speaker 2>So I'll use the ferminator in the brush at the

0:13:55.800 --> 0:13:59.040
<v Speaker 2>same time, one in each hand, and it's kind of

0:13:59.040 --> 0:14:02.599
<v Speaker 2>a careful dance. It used to be even more of

0:14:02.640 --> 0:14:04.480
<v Speaker 2>a dance because she gets so riled up that she

0:14:04.520 --> 0:14:07.360
<v Speaker 2>would also try and scratch me. But she's older now

0:14:07.360 --> 0:14:09.200
<v Speaker 2>she's a little slower, so I can usually stay on

0:14:09.200 --> 0:14:13.160
<v Speaker 2>top of her her over excited aggressions. All right. This

0:14:13.240 --> 0:14:20.080
<v Speaker 2>next one comes to us from Mike. Mike says, I

0:14:20.160 --> 0:14:22.720
<v Speaker 2>love the four Dust episodes. In episode four, when you

0:14:22.760 --> 0:14:26.160
<v Speaker 2>were talking about Sandman's Dust, I immediately thought about Neil

0:14:26.160 --> 0:14:29.240
<v Speaker 2>gaman Sandman comic. The comic is about an entity called

0:14:29.320 --> 0:14:32.480
<v Speaker 2>Dream and his realm, the Dreaming. In the early issues,

0:14:32.520 --> 0:14:34.440
<v Speaker 2>he has to track down some of his tools that

0:14:34.480 --> 0:14:38.120
<v Speaker 2>were stolen from him an issue three and also episode

0:14:38.120 --> 0:14:40.760
<v Speaker 2>three of the television adaptation Dreams. Bag of dream dust

0:14:40.840 --> 0:14:43.440
<v Speaker 2>falls into the hands of an innocent woman who becomes

0:14:43.440 --> 0:14:45.960
<v Speaker 2>helplessly addicted to the dreams and fantasies that the dream

0:14:46.040 --> 0:14:48.600
<v Speaker 2>dust gives her. She ends up more or less wasting

0:14:48.640 --> 0:14:51.080
<v Speaker 2>away because she wants to spend more time in the

0:14:51.160 --> 0:14:53.600
<v Speaker 2>dream than in real life. It's an excellent read with

0:14:53.600 --> 0:14:56.000
<v Speaker 2>some pretty disturbing imagery. Thanks for the podcast. Stuff to

0:14:56.000 --> 0:15:01.040
<v Speaker 2>Blow Your Mind is the podcast I recommend to most people. Mike, Yeah,

0:15:01.040 --> 0:15:03.720
<v Speaker 2>the good good note, Mike. You know, we didn't mention

0:15:04.640 --> 0:15:08.040
<v Speaker 2>the Sandman comic or the Netflix adaptation in these episodes,

0:15:08.040 --> 0:15:11.240
<v Speaker 2>but both are excellent. I was. I was a fan

0:15:11.280 --> 0:15:14.680
<v Speaker 2>of the comic back when I read it years ago,

0:15:15.040 --> 0:15:17.520
<v Speaker 2>and I really did enjoy the Netflix adaptation as well.

0:15:17.560 --> 0:15:20.840
<v Speaker 2>I thought I had a great cast, very well put together.

0:15:20.880 --> 0:15:23.680
<v Speaker 2>I seem to recall that David S. Goyer is involved

0:15:23.720 --> 0:15:26.600
<v Speaker 2>in that as well, has a tremendous cast.

0:15:26.360 --> 0:15:28.440
<v Speaker 3>Though I am not familiar with it.

0:15:28.640 --> 0:15:31.640
<v Speaker 2>Oh well, treat yourself. It's good stuff.

0:15:32.120 --> 0:15:35.240
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, may get there someday. Goes on the list with

0:15:35.320 --> 0:15:36.239
<v Speaker 3>everything else.

0:15:36.880 --> 0:15:37.320
<v Speaker 2>All right.

0:15:37.360 --> 0:15:40.000
<v Speaker 3>This next message is in response to the series we

0:15:40.040 --> 0:15:45.640
<v Speaker 3>did on the Egyptian God Osiris. This comes from Constantinos.

0:15:50.720 --> 0:15:55.000
<v Speaker 3>Constantinos says, good day, gentlemen. I enjoyed your episode on

0:15:55.000 --> 0:15:58.400
<v Speaker 3>Osiris and have two comments. These are big topics, but

0:15:58.400 --> 0:16:01.600
<v Speaker 3>I'll try to be assistinct as possible possible. Part one

0:16:01.840 --> 0:16:05.760
<v Speaker 3>a slice of pie that stands for proto Indo European.

0:16:06.200 --> 0:16:09.320
<v Speaker 3>The first is that any Greek attestment to Egyptian origins

0:16:09.320 --> 0:16:11.400
<v Speaker 3>of Greek mythology has to be taken with a grain

0:16:11.480 --> 0:16:14.840
<v Speaker 3>of salt. I think that Greeks like Herodotus, who cited

0:16:14.920 --> 0:16:19.480
<v Speaker 3>Egyptian mythological roots were simply overreaching and letting conjecture get

0:16:19.520 --> 0:16:22.040
<v Speaker 3>the better of them. Oh yeah. This connects to the

0:16:22.080 --> 0:16:24.960
<v Speaker 3>idea that maybe the Greek gods were in some sense

0:16:25.080 --> 0:16:27.920
<v Speaker 3>the same as the Egyptian gods and just different names

0:16:27.960 --> 0:16:30.640
<v Speaker 3>for them, or maybe A later take on a similar

0:16:30.680 --> 0:16:34.160
<v Speaker 3>view is that the idea that the Greek mythology evolved

0:16:34.200 --> 0:16:38.640
<v Speaker 3>from the Egyptian mythology, which some people have proposed, and

0:16:39.040 --> 0:16:43.120
<v Speaker 3>Constantinos here is saying that that is not likely the case.

0:16:44.680 --> 0:16:48.200
<v Speaker 3>So he says, here is a mainstream academic view of

0:16:48.320 --> 0:16:53.800
<v Speaker 3>Greek mythology origins. In summary one, proto Indo Europeans migrated

0:16:53.800 --> 0:16:57.640
<v Speaker 3>from the Russian Steps to Greece. Proto Indo European settlers

0:16:57.680 --> 0:17:02.640
<v Speaker 3>were pastoralists, their economy center around cattle. Meanwhile, the indigenous

0:17:02.680 --> 0:17:06.960
<v Speaker 3>Greeks were in agricultural society. We know precious little about

0:17:07.000 --> 0:17:10.480
<v Speaker 3>the Proto Indo Europeans and indigenous Greeks, but the Proto

0:17:10.560 --> 0:17:15.600
<v Speaker 3>Indo European settlers brought the Greek language to Greece. Proto

0:17:15.640 --> 0:17:19.520
<v Speaker 3>Indo European settlers brought their pastoral gods Zeus at All

0:17:19.840 --> 0:17:24.080
<v Speaker 3>and melded them into the indigenous people's agricultural gods demmeter

0:17:24.240 --> 0:17:28.200
<v Speaker 3>at All, and together they created the Olympian Pantheon. There

0:17:28.200 --> 0:17:31.959
<v Speaker 3>are other non Proto Indo European and non indigenous influences

0:17:32.000 --> 0:17:37.440
<v Speaker 3>on Greek mythology Parentheses, Apollo, question Mark, maybe Dionysus. The

0:17:37.560 --> 0:17:42.320
<v Speaker 3>latter's origin is still controversial, but they seem more Anatolian,

0:17:42.560 --> 0:17:46.359
<v Speaker 3>maybe Cypriot or in Cretan than Egyptian. I tend to

0:17:46.400 --> 0:17:50.720
<v Speaker 3>view Greek mythology as sedimentary rock with layers upon layers

0:17:50.800 --> 0:17:54.440
<v Speaker 3>of development, rather than one single thing. Anyway, there does

0:17:54.480 --> 0:17:56.920
<v Speaker 3>not seem to be a lot of evidence for direct

0:17:56.480 --> 0:18:00.600
<v Speaker 3>imports of Egyptian myths during the early formative phases of

0:18:00.640 --> 0:18:03.000
<v Speaker 3>the Greek mythos. But that is not to say that

0:18:03.080 --> 0:18:05.760
<v Speaker 3>it did not happen. We just have clearer paths to

0:18:05.840 --> 0:18:11.879
<v Speaker 3>other places. Part two, Resurrecting the resurrecting god's debate. This

0:18:11.920 --> 0:18:13.960
<v Speaker 3>is a reference to us bringing up the question of

0:18:14.280 --> 0:18:18.920
<v Speaker 3>whether Osiris and other gods from the ancient world should

0:18:18.960 --> 0:18:22.439
<v Speaker 3>be thought of as gods that die and then rise

0:18:22.480 --> 0:18:25.359
<v Speaker 3>again in the way that say Jesus, or maybe some

0:18:25.440 --> 0:18:29.119
<v Speaker 3>of the figures from other mystery religions would would be

0:18:29.160 --> 0:18:32.800
<v Speaker 3>said to die and rise again. And Constantinos is about

0:18:32.800 --> 0:18:34.639
<v Speaker 3>to bring up one of the gods of one of

0:18:34.680 --> 0:18:38.879
<v Speaker 3>these mystery religions. He says, I'm surprised that your discussion

0:18:39.000 --> 0:18:43.520
<v Speaker 3>on resurrecting gods did not include Dionysus and Orpheus. Again,

0:18:43.560 --> 0:18:45.639
<v Speaker 3>this is a huge subject, but I will try to

0:18:45.720 --> 0:18:49.040
<v Speaker 3>just hit the high points. The god Dionysus was killed

0:18:49.080 --> 0:18:52.159
<v Speaker 3>and torn apart by evil Titans. At the direction of

0:18:52.440 --> 0:18:57.600
<v Speaker 3>the goddess Hera. Athena saved Dionysus's heart, and Zeus resurrects him.

0:18:58.400 --> 0:19:01.399
<v Speaker 3>Orpheus may have been the name of a religious figure

0:19:01.440 --> 0:19:05.280
<v Speaker 3>from northern Greece, regardless of whether he existed. Orpheus is

0:19:05.359 --> 0:19:08.560
<v Speaker 3>credited as being the prophet that founded a mystery cult

0:19:08.880 --> 0:19:13.560
<v Speaker 3>centered around the resurrected Dionysus. Orphists believed that humans are

0:19:13.560 --> 0:19:17.000
<v Speaker 3>born of the original sin parentheses the dust of the

0:19:17.000 --> 0:19:20.920
<v Speaker 3>burnt Titans, but also have a divine spark, the soul.

0:19:21.400 --> 0:19:24.080
<v Speaker 3>Long story short, be good and your soul gets to

0:19:24.160 --> 0:19:28.679
<v Speaker 3>heaven the Elysian Fields. Orphism is old and foundational to

0:19:28.720 --> 0:19:33.200
<v Speaker 3>Western religious traditions. In fact, the oldest surviving European written text,

0:19:33.320 --> 0:19:39.119
<v Speaker 3>the fourth century BC Dirveni Papyrus, is an orphic hymn.

0:19:39.640 --> 0:19:44.119
<v Speaker 3>Many have drawn direct lines from orphism to Neoplatonism and Christianity.

0:19:44.240 --> 0:19:46.080
<v Speaker 3>It is a deep rabbit hole to go down, and

0:19:46.119 --> 0:19:50.520
<v Speaker 3>the case is compelling its links to Christianity. Aside, Dionysus

0:19:50.560 --> 0:19:54.240
<v Speaker 3>is demonstrably one of the earliest resurrecting gods that did

0:19:54.280 --> 0:19:57.760
<v Speaker 3>indeed spawn a religion centered on his resurrection. Hope you

0:19:57.800 --> 0:20:00.640
<v Speaker 3>found that interesting. Thank you all for a love podcast

0:20:00.720 --> 0:20:03.840
<v Speaker 3>that I cannot stop recommending to any that will listen. Cheers.

0:20:04.600 --> 0:20:06.880
<v Speaker 2>Oh that's excellent. You know, I do think we could

0:20:06.920 --> 0:20:10.480
<v Speaker 2>come back in the future and do a proper Orpheus

0:20:10.800 --> 0:20:15.399
<v Speaker 2>or Dionysus podcast series, you know, focus it because you

0:20:15.400 --> 0:20:19.440
<v Speaker 2>know we do love our deep dives into mythology. All right,

0:20:19.480 --> 0:20:21.240
<v Speaker 2>We're gonna go ahead close up the mail bag here.

0:20:21.280 --> 0:20:22.840
<v Speaker 2>We had some that we didn't have time to get

0:20:22.840 --> 0:20:24.720
<v Speaker 2>to today, but we will come back to those in

0:20:24.760 --> 0:20:28.000
<v Speaker 2>a future installment of Listener Mail, so keep them coming.

0:20:28.600 --> 0:20:31.400
<v Speaker 2>We'd love to hear from you on episodes past, episodes

0:20:31.440 --> 0:20:34.639
<v Speaker 2>present or episodes future, your recommendations and so forth. And

0:20:34.680 --> 0:20:36.399
<v Speaker 2>if you're on the fence, if you're like, I'm kind

0:20:36.440 --> 0:20:39.520
<v Speaker 2>of thinking about writing into the show, but I've never

0:20:39.560 --> 0:20:41.840
<v Speaker 2>done it before. I don't know if this is interesting enough,

0:20:42.600 --> 0:20:45.600
<v Speaker 2>go ahead and give it a shot. We'd love to

0:20:45.640 --> 0:20:48.680
<v Speaker 2>hear from you regardless, and we do. We do read everything,

0:20:48.720 --> 0:20:53.159
<v Speaker 2>even if we don't read everything on listener Mail, and

0:20:53.400 --> 0:20:56.399
<v Speaker 2>even though we don't respond to everything via email, we

0:20:56.400 --> 0:20:58.200
<v Speaker 2>do read it. So it's the best way to get

0:20:58.240 --> 0:21:00.800
<v Speaker 2>in touch with us, the best way to share your

0:21:00.880 --> 0:21:04.520
<v Speaker 2>enthusiasm in the best way to share any feedback, constructive

0:21:04.520 --> 0:21:07.520
<v Speaker 2>feedback about the show itself, though, don't be shy about

0:21:07.640 --> 0:21:10.960
<v Speaker 2>throwing some positive reviews and some stars our way. Wherever

0:21:11.040 --> 0:21:13.879
<v Speaker 2>you get the podcast. I will remind you that listener

0:21:13.920 --> 0:21:17.040
<v Speaker 2>mail airs on Mondays. In the Stuff to Blow Your

0:21:17.040 --> 0:21:19.840
<v Speaker 2>Mind podcast, feed core episodes on Tuesdays and Thursdays, short

0:21:19.880 --> 0:21:22.240
<v Speaker 2>form episode on Wednesdays and on Fridays. We set aside

0:21:22.280 --> 0:21:24.080
<v Speaker 2>most series concerns to just talk about a weird film

0:21:24.119 --> 0:21:25.520
<v Speaker 2>on Weird House Cinema.

0:21:25.840 --> 0:21:29.520
<v Speaker 3>Huge thanks as always to our excellent audio producer JJ Posway.

0:21:29.760 --> 0:21:31.400
<v Speaker 3>If you would like to get in touch with us

0:21:31.400 --> 0:21:34.000
<v Speaker 3>with feedback on this episode or any other, to suggest

0:21:34.000 --> 0:21:36.160
<v Speaker 3>a topic for the future, or just to say hi,

0:21:36.200 --> 0:21:38.840
<v Speaker 3>you can email us at contact at stuff to Blow

0:21:38.840 --> 0:21:46.600
<v Speaker 3>your Mind dot com.

0:21:46.680 --> 0:21:49.639
<v Speaker 1>Stuff to Blow Your Mind is production of iHeartRadio. For

0:21:49.720 --> 0:21:52.520
<v Speaker 1>more podcasts from my Heart Radio, visit the iHeartRadio app,

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