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Speaker 1: Film Spotting is presented by Regal Unlimited, the all you

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Speaker 2: It's very difficult to keep the line between the past

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Speaker 2: and the press.

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Speaker 3: You believe that someone out of the past can enter

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Speaker 3: and take possession of a living be We may be

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Speaker 3: through with the past, but the past is not through

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Speaker 3: with us.

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Speaker 4: Welcome back to the next Picture Show A movie the

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Speaker 4: Week podcasted to a classic film and the way it

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Speaker 4: shaped our thoughts on a recent release.

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Speaker 5: I'm Keith Phipps here.

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Speaker 6: With Tasha Robinson and Scott Tobias.

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Speaker 5: Our radio co host Genevieukoski. We're sorry.

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Speaker 4: Report is currently suffering from a kryptonite related illness. We're

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Speaker 4: hoping for a speedy recovery. In our last episode, we

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Speaker 4: discussed True Grit, Joel Nathan Cohen's adaptation of Charles Porters's

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Speaker 4: novel about a girl seeking vengeance or justice, and the

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Speaker 4: drunken law man who reluctantly.

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Speaker 5: Helps her in her search.

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Speaker 4: There's a lot of true grit DNA and Supergirl, Woman

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Speaker 4: of Vengeance and comics mini series written by Tom King

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Speaker 4: with art by a book with Evily that's the primary

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Speaker 4: aspiration for the new film Supergirl. In both Superman's cousin

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Speaker 4: carz Orrel, best known as Supergirl and played in the

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Speaker 4: film by Millie Alcock, is roped into aiding a girl

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Speaker 4: named Ruthie played by Eve Ridley after a barbaric outlaw

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Speaker 4: named Krim played by Matthia Shannart kills Ruthie's family tried

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Speaker 4: to make Craig Gillespie. For a script by Anna Nogurerira,

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Speaker 4: the Supergirl turns outer space into a cosmic version of

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Speaker 4: the American West to tell a familiar story in a

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Speaker 4: new way.

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Speaker 5: Does it work? We'll talk it over after the break.

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Speaker 2: Here's the thing. My cousin and I have very different

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Speaker 2: ideas what it means to be a hero. He sees

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Speaker 2: the good, Nevermoe, and I see the truth.

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Speaker 6: The bricks.

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Speaker 2: Brought destruction.

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Speaker 6: To every corner of the universe. The galaxy must be defended.

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Speaker 5: You cannot give up on me, all right, So I'll

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Speaker 5: last again, does it work are a super Girl? I

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Speaker 5: don't think it does that well. I think it's fine.

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Speaker 5: I think it's okay.

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Speaker 4: Actually, I think my my daughter kind of nailed this

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Speaker 4: better than I did. Was like it's it's like an

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Speaker 4: okay later MCU film right where it's like it's fine,

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Speaker 4: you know, but it's almost like, but it's disappointing in

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Speaker 4: relation to how fresh Superman felt and how much like, oh,

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Speaker 4: it's a whole different take on this genre, whereas this

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Speaker 4: try some interesting new things or some new things or

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Speaker 4: newish things, but it doesn't feel in any way like

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Speaker 4: it has like a fresh take on the superhero film.

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Speaker 4: It's sort of my main thing. There's things I like

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Speaker 4: about the film. Ultimately, I gave it like three stars

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Speaker 4: out of five. But all the films we're like, oh,

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Speaker 4: that's pretty good, and then you spend the next few

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Speaker 4: days thinking about all things didn't work about it.

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Speaker 5: That's my experience anyway. What about what about you guys?

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Speaker 6: I mean that pretty much nails it as far as

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Speaker 6: it does it work. I think it works fine as

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Speaker 6: kind of shaggy dog story about a couple of gals

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Speaker 6: in the galaxy, you know, punching some guys and being

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Speaker 6: punched by some guys. As anything else, like maybe as

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Speaker 6: a sort of an origin story for the new DCU

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Speaker 6: version of Supergirl. It works fine as a story about

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Speaker 6: vengeance or justice or superheroism or hero ordinary heroism, or

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Speaker 6: you know, helping people through difficult times or grief, you know,

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Speaker 6: all of these things that specifically King and Everly's version

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Speaker 6: we're doing the movie does the broader, dumber, and often

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Speaker 6: in very self contradictory fashion. So you know, in the end,

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Speaker 6: I the word that I hear people describe it using

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Speaker 6: to describe this movie more than any other is okay,

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Speaker 6: isn't Yeah it was okay? And that was kind of

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Speaker 6: my take too, was yeah it was okay. And then

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Speaker 6: as you say, you start thinking about it and you're like, well, okay,

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Speaker 6: except for this part that doesn't make much sense, or

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Speaker 6: this part that doesn't really land, or this part that

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Speaker 6: kind of comes out of nowhere, or wow, this part

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Speaker 6: that's actually really pretty damn ugly when you think about it.

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Speaker 5: Scott, I think you are on the less than okay

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Speaker 5: side of yes.

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Speaker 3: I I think I mean, I would say maybe on

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Speaker 3: the fence leaning backwards kind of it would be where

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Speaker 3: I go it's fine, it's fine, And I think I

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Speaker 3: think you know, Keith, your daughter great insight there. I

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Speaker 3: think I think kind of in that later you feel

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Speaker 3: but also but I also think more damningly, specifically in

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Speaker 3: the late mode in that and that you worry that

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Speaker 3: James Gunn, who is hired to kind of take DC

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Speaker 3: into a new direction, is kind of injecting that formula

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Speaker 3: into DC rather than kind of take it to somewhere new.

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Speaker 3: This feels very rote to me, this film, this adventure,

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Speaker 3: and nothing just it doesn't, you know. I think one,

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Speaker 3: I think Ruthie does nothing for me as a character.

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Speaker 3: I think that character needs in the performance too, frankly,

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Speaker 3: a lot more juice than it has. I think I

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Speaker 3: think it's a very passive character. And I think that

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Speaker 3: hurts the film because because you need somebody who's going

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Speaker 3: to be for super Girl really ping off, and that

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Speaker 3: doesn't really happen, like really to billi alos Cox credit.

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Speaker 3: She certainly has plenty of charisma and gravitational force, but

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Speaker 3: but I think that the film doesn't have the balance

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Speaker 3: that it needs in that in that regard, and I

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Speaker 3: think there's there's just kind of a missed opportunity there,

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Speaker 3: and I think Manila Darter's review kind of hits on

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Speaker 3: this too is like the Supergirl kind of hits us

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Speaker 3: at a good time tonally, because yeah, we feel superhero fatigue,

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Speaker 3: and that is the defining characteristic of this character, who

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Speaker 3: is just like do I have to do? Do I

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Speaker 3: have to do any of this? Can I just drink

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Speaker 3: and just not just ignore all of this all of

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Speaker 3: this burdensome stuff. And I think I think that there's

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Speaker 3: almost a meta connection that we have with that character,

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Speaker 3: but it's just not exploited as effectively as you as

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Speaker 3: you would want, like all across the board, like they

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Speaker 3: think there's I think her brief appearance in Superman carried

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Speaker 3: more punch than I think is delivered in this movie.

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Speaker 3: I was disappointed that Crypto, who was who was absolutely

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Speaker 3: one of the highlights, if not the highlight of Superman

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Speaker 3: is is uh, you know, gets gets injured, you know,

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Speaker 3: and it is not in the movie for a long

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Speaker 3: stretch of the film.

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Speaker 6: We're not gonna agree on that one. Scott, Sorry you

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Speaker 6: don't like the dog.

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Speaker 5: I love the dog.

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Speaker 6: There was so much Crypto in Superman that I think

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Speaker 6: if he had been nearly as front and center here

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Speaker 6: it would have stopped being the DCU and started being

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Speaker 6: the case. Yeah, exactly, oh case.

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Speaker 5: I thought she said maybe K nine Cinematic Universe.

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Speaker 6: I don't know, it does not start with the K.

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Speaker 4: I think the one thing we're all kind of agreen

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Speaker 4: on those is million Alcock's really good in this.

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Speaker 6: Oh, she's great.

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Speaker 4: She has a better sense of who the character is

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Speaker 4: than the script does, and what consistency there is to

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Speaker 4: that character from seeing the scene comes entirely from that performance.

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Speaker 5: And yeah, I think she's terrific on this, and just you.

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Speaker 6: Know, all of the all of the draw towards the character.

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Speaker 6: You know, there's a kind of like there's a party

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Speaker 6: girl energy and also a weary exhaustion and like layers

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Speaker 6: of of grief and frustration and anger. That kind of

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Speaker 6: getting ahead of myself here a little bit. But one

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Speaker 6: of the things I was talking about with true Grit,

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Speaker 6: with the Cohen's True Grit is a sense that you

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Speaker 6: don't need to know too much about any of the

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Speaker 6: three main characters to know a lot about the history

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Speaker 6: of the three main characters. You know, you can see

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Speaker 6: their histories in the way they interact with the world.

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Speaker 6: And I think she brings in a lot of that

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Speaker 6: as well. So maybe it's a little bit of a

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Speaker 6: shame that we spend quite as much time as we

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Speaker 6: do detailing all of that backstory, But she's the only

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Speaker 6: one that comes with that weight. Like literally everybody else,

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Speaker 6: including the other character whose backstory we see play out,

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Speaker 6: it's just kind of a one note, one element thing,

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Speaker 6: you know, a prop for her to interact with, and

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Speaker 6: watching this three dimensional character interact with a two dimensional

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Speaker 6: world just isn't always very interesting. As Scott says, she

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Speaker 6: needed a better world to ping off of and she

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Speaker 6: doesn't get it here, and.

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Speaker 3: Ultimately too this is again important when you're when you're

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Speaker 3: really trying to assert yourself as a brand, as a

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Speaker 3: personality or something. It's just is to get a director

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Speaker 3: who can give you that. I mean, what is it,

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Speaker 3: Craig Gillespie, film folks, what is it?

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Speaker 5: What are we looking at?

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Speaker 3: I mean, you look at this guy's filmography. You know,

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Speaker 3: it's kind of he's kind of pretty good at doing

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Speaker 3: you know, he does kind of this real life to

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Speaker 3: screen thing with like Ititanyan with Pam and Tommy, which

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Speaker 3: it was was the TV show that our friend Rob

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Speaker 3: wrote that he was directing. Uh so he's going back

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Speaker 3: between the two mediums he did Cruella, you know, mister

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Speaker 3: Woodcock or whatever. He's giving what was he giving you Stylistically,

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Speaker 3: He's giving you a lot of attitude. He's not giving

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Speaker 3: you a whole lot of distinctive style. And again I

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Speaker 3: will say it's fine. I mean, I think it's Corolla

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Speaker 3: is okay. It's all the wall music though, if I recall, But.

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Speaker 4: Krella is part of why I was kind of looking

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Speaker 4: forward to this movie though, because it's far better than

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Speaker 4: I don't think it's a great film, but it's far

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Speaker 4: better than a sort of a what was the word

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Speaker 4: brand a deposit.

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Speaker 5: You know, live action version of a character that.

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Speaker 4: Didn't seem to need her own movie was like, it

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Speaker 4: actually has like a fair amount of depth to that character.

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Speaker 4: I think the biggest flaw is, like I like that Corilla.

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Speaker 4: It's enough that I don't want her to turn into

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Speaker 4: the Karrella from her one telemage. Yeah, but it's kind

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Speaker 4: of interesting to take on on on, you know, trying

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Speaker 4: to how to work with a character like that, and

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Speaker 4: I don't really get that from Supergirl at all.

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Speaker 6: This is also the director of Lars and the Real Girl,

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Speaker 6: and I think it Tanya actually is like a movie

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Speaker 6: with a stylistic point of view. I kind of feel

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Speaker 6: like he got sucked into the Hollywood machine and you

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Speaker 6: know this, this movie to me is just ersatz James Gunn.

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Speaker 6: He uses a lot of same visual tricks, camera tricks,

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Speaker 6: especially the three sixty spin camera during a battle scene

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Speaker 6: which we get a bunch here, which is a big

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Speaker 6: gun signature. So I feel like he's evolved from a

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Speaker 6: much more distinctive filmmaker into you know, somebody who's producing

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Speaker 6: stuff for the machine that the machine wants.

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Speaker 3: It reminds me a little bit of you can't help

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Speaker 3: but think of the Mandalorian and Grogo from earlier this

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Speaker 3: summer in the sense that you have yeah, with James

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Speaker 3: gun does come out.

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Speaker 5: It sure did.

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Speaker 6: I definitely can stop myself from thinking of it. I

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Speaker 6: had already forgotten about that movie Computed.

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Speaker 3: But I mean, I think the idea though, is like

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Speaker 3: both scenarios, you know, with with James Gunn and and

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Speaker 3: kind of these new DC movies coming out, and then

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Speaker 3: and then Dave Filonian and that that gang taking over

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Speaker 3: Star Wars. It's just it's just like we're gonna clean

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Speaker 3: things up. Things have gone astray with these you know,

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Speaker 3: beloved important franchises. We're gonna we're gonna put in a

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Speaker 3: new direction. And it's like you feel no extra life

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Speaker 3: at all with something like the Mandalorian Grogu and here

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Speaker 3: you know that that initial bit of juice she got

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Speaker 3: from James Gunn has just settled into something that feels

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Speaker 3: so familiar and so mediocre and so risk averse, and uh,

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Speaker 3: you know, I think that was that's kind of just

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Speaker 3: ends up being disappointed because it was super goal is

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Speaker 3: what it could have been, because you have this character

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Speaker 3: at at center, and you have an actress who are

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Speaker 3: irreverent and powerful and kind of cool and have an

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Speaker 3: attitude that I think you might be able to kind

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Speaker 3: of engage with that fatigue that of course we're feeling

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Speaker 3: watching these movies. But then the reality is that you're

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Speaker 3: given kind of a mediocre adventure in both this case

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Speaker 3: and in the Mandalorian and gro Goup, and.

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Speaker 6: It's a mediocre adventure with just a lot of the

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Speaker 6: you know it is handa put it with. This mediocre

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Speaker 6: adventure has all the problems of like the mediocre late

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Speaker 6: stage MCU movies, one of which is a really unmemorable

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Speaker 6: villain who just does not have a lot going on

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Speaker 6: except gra gra I, eat babies and rape children.

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Speaker 5: I think that's performance too.

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Speaker 6: I I don't know what he could have done with

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Speaker 6: that little material that would have stood out. Like he's

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Speaker 6: basically an extra for Mad Max and that's that's all

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Speaker 6: the script gives him. You know, he has no philosophy,

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Speaker 6: he has no point of view, he has no there's

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Speaker 6: nothing about him that's interesting. And that's one of the

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Speaker 6: biggest disappointments from adapting King Evily's mini series is just

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Speaker 6: that character was so defined and so different and interesting.

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Speaker 6: His motives were interesting. I truly don't know what KREM's

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Speaker 6: motivations are in this movie beyond burn it all down.

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Speaker 6: He kicks off the action, yeah, exactly. He kicks off

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Speaker 6: the action by showing up at Ruthie's father's place to

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Speaker 6: steal all of his like Universe class super swords, and

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Speaker 6: then they don't even use any of them. They just

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Speaker 6: kind of hang them up. And maybe that's meant to,

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Speaker 6: you know, indicate a certain amount of like, you know,

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Speaker 6: Potlatchian attitude towards towards things like he didn't do this

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Speaker 6: so he could be the best swordsman in the galaxy.

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Speaker 6: He did this because somebody had something he wanted. And

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Speaker 6: then you know, he killed everybody in sight. But that's

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Speaker 6: not interesting, and the Cram of the comics mini series

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Speaker 6: has a point of view and has a reason for

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Speaker 6: what he did and only killed Ruthie's father as opposed

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Speaker 6: to mask herring her entire family and burning down their farm,

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Speaker 6: and it had nothing to do with swords. It's just

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Speaker 6: it's a much more interesting and nuanced take on the

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Speaker 6: story and the character. Here everything is flattened out up

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Speaker 6: to an including Lobo, who is just a character I

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Speaker 6: have never found particularly interesting, and here really only seems

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Speaker 6: to be inserted awkwardly into the middle of this story

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Speaker 6: so we can say, hey, here's this guy. Later, when

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Speaker 6: we have a movie that's just him, you'll know who

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Speaker 6: he is. He's that guy that was in Supergirl.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, and Superman did that much more gracefully, like introduced

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Speaker 4: like a bunch of actors that presumably we'll see in

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Speaker 4: later DC movies. But it felt like it was doing

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Speaker 4: it as part of the story it was being told,

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Speaker 4: where it's like this, he feels so shoveled in and like, yeah,

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Speaker 4: Lobo shows up in the comics for like one issue,

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Speaker 4: is like, oh, that's kind of Lobo's kind of fun.

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Speaker 4: But then you know, Lobo Alstaates is welcome, and that's

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Speaker 4: that's that's that's no good. And basically Alstaates is welcome

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Speaker 4: by being in this movie. I don't really love. I'm

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Speaker 4: kind of a Jason momoas skeptic, I guess in some ways.

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Speaker 4: And I just felt like this was way way too

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Speaker 4: many like beefy dudes who are doing the same thing.

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Speaker 4: We got to dial back back, Yeah, you got to

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Speaker 4: dial back and like yeah, And I was really excited.

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Speaker 4: I know Tom King's a divisive writer, both for what

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Speaker 4: he writes and for his background. No ways, no way

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Speaker 4: to get into that gracefully in this podcast, but I do.

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Speaker 4: I really loved this mini series and part of that

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Speaker 4: was part of why I was excited about this film.

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Speaker 4: And then when you look at the changes made, particularly

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Speaker 4: to the ending of the film, which is basically, hey,

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Speaker 4: Supergirl and pals go off and have his space adventure

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Speaker 4: versus a very interesting bit of moral reckoning and so

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Speaker 4: a lot of ambiguity in the in the end of

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Speaker 4: the Comics mini series. Yeah, it was. It's definitely felt

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Speaker 4: like something that had been reduced. And also the late

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Speaker 4: introduction of this whole like Fury Road, We're going to

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Speaker 4: uh traffic in these women and they must be saved thing.

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Speaker 4: It's like, you know, that's that felt like just sort

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Speaker 4: of like we got to RAISEI stake somehow.

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Speaker 5: I don't know. I don't know. Again, It's fine, but

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Speaker 5: it's also frustrating.

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Speaker 6: It feels like a nineties superhero movie. It feels like

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Speaker 6: we've gone back like several generations of you know, iterations

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Speaker 6: and developments on what superheroes can be. And I don't know,

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Speaker 6: there's a kind of nineties like nihilism too. I mean,

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Speaker 6: first of all, the Lobo, who was created earlier but

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Speaker 6: kind of you know, became a to the degree that

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Speaker 6: he's an iconic figure like that that all came out

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Speaker 6: of his nineties reinvention to you know, Supergirl in the

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Speaker 6: end of this movie consciously choosing murder, which is something

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Speaker 6: that was hugely, hugely controversial when Superman did it in

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Speaker 6: the Zack Snyder verse, to the degree that it took

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Speaker 6: over a lot of the conversation about that movie. And

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Speaker 6: here to me kind of is presented almost as proof

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Speaker 6: that Supergirl is not Superman, which we get a lot

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Speaker 6: of throughout this movie, you know, both in terms of

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Speaker 6: her like partying and getting drunk and puking and seeking

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Speaker 6: out places where she's not Super so she doesn't have

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Speaker 6: to feel any responsibility for being super and also so

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Speaker 6: she can knock herself blotto with alcohol, but also in

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Speaker 6: periodic conversations with Superman, with David Corn Sweat showing up

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Speaker 6: in these little cameos that initially I thought we're going

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Speaker 6: to be just, hey, you liked this guy in this movie,

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Speaker 6: hear some more of him, But I actually I ended

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Speaker 6: up thinking we're One of the more interesting aspects of

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Speaker 6: this movie is just him trying to reckon with this

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Speaker 6: this new thing that's been thrust upon him, and him

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Speaker 6: trying to, you know, extend his goodness and his boy

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Speaker 6: scoutness to somebody who went through something so similar to

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Speaker 6: what he's going through and reacted so differently and has

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Speaker 6: come to the same place that he's come to and

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Speaker 6: has reacted so differently to it. So, you know, I

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Speaker 6: think maybe the conversations between the two of them and

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Speaker 6: her way of seeing Earth versus the way he sees

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Speaker 6: Earth are some of the most interesting things in the movie,

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Speaker 6: and they're just backgrounded for most of the film, so

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Speaker 6: we can have, you know, antic nonsense involving aliens, slimy

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Speaker 6: cg aliens with weird anatomies, and see a whole bunch

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Speaker 6: of very young girls who have been trafficked as sex slaves,

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Speaker 6: running around being helpless and in many cases dying, all.

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Speaker 5: Leading up to they're they're not just for kids anymore, leading.

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Speaker 6: Up to a moment at the very end where one

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Speaker 6: of them does somethings just so you can say girl power.

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Speaker 3: Yes, hear you talk about the movie in detail, because

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Speaker 3: I don't remember any of It's like, oh, that happened,

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Speaker 3: that's interesting. I'm good recall on that. I just to

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Speaker 3: kind of reflect. I do feel I agree with you, Tasha,

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Speaker 3: that that what we do get here with Superman. Those

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Speaker 3: interactions are some of my favorite moments in the movie

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Speaker 3: because they do feel like they're talking about something important,

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Speaker 3: and they do. They do come you know, have these

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Speaker 3: as you say, similar experiences that they've that they've can

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Speaker 3: come to different conclusions about and reshape the lives and

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Speaker 3: different ways around. All that stuff is real dramas and

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00:20:23,845 --> 00:20:26,005
Speaker 3: real things that you can kind of chew on. But

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Speaker 3: I think you know not to harp on Lobo here.

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Speaker 3: But let's just talk about Lobo for a second. Like

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Speaker 3: you all have experience with Lobo. I'm a comics idiot.

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Speaker 3: I don't know who this guy is. So imagine imagine me.

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Speaker 3: Imagine me, this naive fellow who's just going out to

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Speaker 3: have a good time at Supergirl encountering this character.

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Speaker 5: What am I supposed to make it? This guy?

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Speaker 3: You know, you know, it does not matter to me.

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Speaker 3: It doesn't matter to me that he he doesn't have

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Speaker 3: a significant, important role in this movie. It's not the

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Speaker 3: movie could take him or leave him, and you kind

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Speaker 3: of wish that they would leave him. But I have

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Speaker 3: no investment or interest in how this character might you know,

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Speaker 3: this character needing to be established to be in future movies.

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Speaker 5: This is what are we doing here?

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Speaker 3: I mean, I just think I'm so tired of these

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Speaker 3: films throwing out, you know, some basic storytelling responsibility of

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Speaker 3: these in order to extend the franchise, in order to

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Speaker 3: link together one film to the next. It's so exhausting

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Speaker 3: and it's so damaging to the films individually.

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Speaker 5: To make movies that way.

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Speaker 6: When you say he doesn't have a significant role to play, Scott,

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Speaker 6: I think you're forgetting the very important thing at the

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Speaker 6: end where even though he's a bounty hunter and his

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Speaker 6: only job is to get this guy's head and get

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Speaker 6: the bounty, and he does that, and in spite of

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Speaker 6: repeatedly telling us that he doesn't care about anything else,

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Speaker 6: he still comes back to like witness the end of

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Speaker 6: the confrontation and you know, give these girls an approving

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Speaker 6: nod to make sure that it's clear to everybody that

395
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Speaker 6: he likes the way they he likes the cut of

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Speaker 6: their jibs.

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Speaker 5: You know, you almost feel like you can almost read

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Speaker 5: the contract.

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Speaker 4: It was like, mister Momoa must be on the in

400
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Speaker 4: the film for no less than X number of minutes.

401
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Speaker 5: Like, oh crap, how are going to do that?

402
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Speaker 3: Oh?

403
00:22:12,205 --> 00:22:14,325
Speaker 5: Yeah, an approving nod, that'll solve it.

404
00:22:14,445 --> 00:22:16,805
Speaker 3: Yeah, he has a nutritionist to by the way, there

405
00:22:16,845 --> 00:22:18,245
Speaker 3: was that that was in the credits as well. He

406
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Speaker 3: had a nutritionist on set for Jason Cawell.

407
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Speaker 6: That's not surprising. You do not maintain a Jason Momoa

408
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Speaker 6: body without a team of people helping along the way. Yeah,

409
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Speaker 6: I that that little like that'll do pig nod at

410
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Speaker 6: the end. It just kind of chaps me a little bit,

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Speaker 6: I think, because this is the kind of movie that

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Speaker 6: a certain kind of publication is going to call feminist

413
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Speaker 6: because there were women in it, their characters and they

414
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Speaker 6: do stuff for themselves, and him showing up at the

415
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Speaker 6: end rud for that'll do pig to me is a

416
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Speaker 6: bunch of like boy executives saying, well, like the end

417
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Speaker 6: is kind of a bunch of girls shoot and kill

418
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Speaker 6: a bunch of men, Like we we got to make

419
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Speaker 6: sure that everybody knows that, like this isn't an anti

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Speaker 6: men movie, Like where where are the men at the

421
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Speaker 6: end of the movie? Can we bring that back? That

422
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Speaker 6: one guy that's who everybody's going to be interested in.

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Speaker 5: What's that one viral tweet?

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Speaker 4: I am not comfortable unless this is about me, but

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Speaker 4: it's written like bird Speaker.

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Speaker 6: Yeah, the bird Bird Spokesman is a longtime favorite of mine.

427
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Speaker 6: But I am not comfortable unless we are about me.

428
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Speaker 6: Is Yes, the Chef's kiss the perfection of the form.

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Speaker 4: Well, we should probably move on. We're not done with

430
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Speaker 4: super Girl yet. We're gonna Yeah, she can take it, Superpowers.

431
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Speaker 4: We're gonna beat up on Supergirl. Well, the film, not

432
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Speaker 4: the actual character who I like, but when we compare

433
00:23:47,205 --> 00:23:49,685
Speaker 4: it to a true grit. We'll be back after the

434
00:23:49,685 --> 00:23:51,965
Speaker 4: break with Connections.

435
00:23:57,125 --> 00:23:59,725
Speaker 3: The next Picture Show is presented by Regal Unlimited, the

436
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439
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440
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441
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442
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443
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444
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458
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459
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460
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Speaker 3: e xt pic twenty six.

461
00:25:19,765 --> 00:25:20,965
Speaker 2: Do you have any information on the break in?

462
00:25:22,085 --> 00:25:23,725
Speaker 5: That's so the information's gonna cost you.

463
00:25:27,525 --> 00:25:28,365
Speaker 2: I'll tell you when.

464
00:25:31,525 --> 00:25:32,565
Speaker 6: I'll arm rescue for her.

465
00:25:33,765 --> 00:25:37,085
Speaker 2: Seriously, you win and you can have us both. I win,

466
00:25:38,245 --> 00:25:39,805
Speaker 2: and you can tell us where the brigands are.

467
00:25:45,885 --> 00:25:46,165
Speaker 5: Deal.

468
00:25:47,005 --> 00:25:47,285
Speaker 2: Deal.

469
00:25:48,045 --> 00:25:50,045
Speaker 4: Now it's time for connections, where we bring these two

470
00:25:50,085 --> 00:25:52,125
Speaker 4: films together talk about all the things they have in common,

471
00:25:52,125 --> 00:25:54,725
Speaker 4: which is quite a lot, you know. I when I

472
00:25:54,765 --> 00:25:57,085
Speaker 4: first read this comics MAK series like, oh, we gotta

473
00:25:57,165 --> 00:26:00,405
Speaker 4: do true grit when Supergirl comes out, and I stand

474
00:26:00,445 --> 00:26:02,045
Speaker 4: by that, obviously stand by it.

475
00:26:02,085 --> 00:26:02,645
Speaker 5: We're doing it.

476
00:26:02,845 --> 00:26:04,805
Speaker 4: But it seems like some of the connections have been

477
00:26:04,845 --> 00:26:07,165
Speaker 4: severed between the source material.

478
00:26:06,765 --> 00:26:08,325
Speaker 5: And True Grit.

479
00:26:08,325 --> 00:26:10,045
Speaker 4: But there's still plenty to talk about here, starting with

480
00:26:10,645 --> 00:26:14,285
Speaker 4: children who task themselves with adult responsibilities. I guess it's

481
00:26:14,325 --> 00:26:17,725
Speaker 4: sort of Ruthie versus Maddie. I mean, you're right, Ruth's

482
00:26:17,965 --> 00:26:21,965
Speaker 4: pretty passive. She's pretty passive, but she does at least

483
00:26:22,085 --> 00:26:23,925
Speaker 4: she does have the true grit.

484
00:26:24,085 --> 00:26:24,925
Speaker 5: One might say.

485
00:26:26,885 --> 00:26:28,965
Speaker 3: She hangs in there she wants to be. I mean,

486
00:26:29,005 --> 00:26:31,805
Speaker 3: she she has to do a tremendous amount of hounding

487
00:26:32,485 --> 00:26:35,365
Speaker 3: to get Supergirl to to uh, you know, do what

488
00:26:35,405 --> 00:26:37,925
Speaker 3: she wants her to do. So in that sense, there's

489
00:26:38,005 --> 00:26:41,565
Speaker 3: definitely a maddiness to it. Uh, But I think that

490
00:26:41,645 --> 00:26:43,445
Speaker 3: there's this a lack of commitment there. I mean, we

491
00:26:43,525 --> 00:26:47,925
Speaker 3: talked about in True Grit how Maddie is asserted through

492
00:26:47,965 --> 00:26:50,525
Speaker 3: the narration and elsewhere as being you know, at this

493
00:26:50,885 --> 00:26:53,765
Speaker 3: you know, our hero, the person through which the story

494
00:26:53,845 --> 00:26:59,045
Speaker 3: is told. That is definitely not the case with Supergirl.

495
00:26:59,205 --> 00:27:02,365
Speaker 3: You know, Ruthie feels you know, yeah, And it doesn't help,

496
00:27:02,405 --> 00:27:05,485
Speaker 3: but it makes it does contribute to that impression of

497
00:27:06,045 --> 00:27:09,525
Speaker 3: Ruthie as being a more passive character or less engaged

498
00:27:09,725 --> 00:27:12,285
Speaker 3: or in engaging character as she she might have been

499
00:27:13,045 --> 00:27:17,165
Speaker 3: because Ultimately, our focus is on Supergirl and whether or

500
00:27:17,245 --> 00:27:21,125
Speaker 3: not she's gonna, you know, be roused into action, and

501
00:27:21,765 --> 00:27:23,965
Speaker 3: how difficult it is for her to kind of get

502
00:27:23,965 --> 00:27:26,965
Speaker 3: there and and in order for to get there, it

503
00:27:27,085 --> 00:27:28,925
Speaker 3: you know, it makes you know, Ruthi look kind of

504
00:27:28,965 --> 00:27:32,285
Speaker 3: like a you know, a little pest rather than somebody,

505
00:27:32,685 --> 00:27:35,205
Speaker 3: rather than a pest that we really enjoy, like Maddie.

506
00:27:35,365 --> 00:27:38,805
Speaker 3: So I don't know, there's a again that that's that's

507
00:27:38,885 --> 00:27:42,885
Speaker 3: one kind of comparing In contrast, uh, that really doesn't

508
00:27:42,925 --> 00:27:46,645
Speaker 3: work in Supergirl's favorite and almost kind of underlines some

509
00:27:46,765 --> 00:27:50,925
Speaker 3: of the foundational problems with Supergirl that really aren't present

510
00:27:51,005 --> 00:27:53,925
Speaker 3: and true grit in terms of just having that strong

511
00:27:54,285 --> 00:27:58,125
Speaker 3: through line, having that strong presence really pushing the action forward,

512
00:27:58,565 --> 00:28:02,005
Speaker 3: because you know, she has truly lost something important, people

513
00:28:02,085 --> 00:28:04,965
Speaker 3: important to her, and we don't we don't feel it

514
00:28:04,965 --> 00:28:06,285
Speaker 3: in a way in the way that I think.

515
00:28:06,205 --> 00:28:06,645
Speaker 5: We need to.

516
00:28:07,085 --> 00:28:12,005
Speaker 6: I think an interesting contrast here, Specifically, the way Keith

517
00:28:12,045 --> 00:28:15,125
Speaker 6: has framed this point as children who task themselves with

518
00:28:15,165 --> 00:28:19,605
Speaker 6: adult responsibilities is that Ruthi doesn't have a choice because

519
00:28:19,605 --> 00:28:22,645
Speaker 6: she doesn't have a family. Her her entire family has

520
00:28:22,685 --> 00:28:25,885
Speaker 6: been killed and she's the last survivor looking for justice,

521
00:28:26,125 --> 00:28:29,365
Speaker 6: whereas Mattie makes it very clear that you know, her

522
00:28:29,405 --> 00:28:33,005
Speaker 6: mother and siblings are at home, she just doesn't trust

523
00:28:33,005 --> 00:28:37,845
Speaker 6: her mother to pursue anything. She describes her mother in

524
00:28:38,925 --> 00:28:42,565
Speaker 6: probably like loving but contemptuous terms, I guess as a

525
00:28:42,565 --> 00:28:47,965
Speaker 6: teenager might as kind of like ineffectual and indecisive, and

526
00:28:48,365 --> 00:28:51,485
Speaker 6: her other siblings is you know, too young for vengeance.

527
00:28:51,725 --> 00:28:54,885
Speaker 6: So this is something she's consciously taken on herself, but

528
00:28:54,925 --> 00:28:57,245
Speaker 6: there are other people that could have done it, including

529
00:28:57,245 --> 00:29:00,165
Speaker 6: the lawyer that she keeps citing. You know, it doesn't

530
00:29:00,205 --> 00:29:04,125
Speaker 6: occur to her or she doesn't trust her lawyer to

531
00:29:04,205 --> 00:29:07,685
Speaker 6: handle the hiring of a ranger to go out and

532
00:29:07,765 --> 00:29:09,925
Speaker 6: do these things, like she wants to be there herself

533
00:29:10,005 --> 00:29:13,565
Speaker 6: for it, whereas Ruthie kind of has to go do

534
00:29:13,605 --> 00:29:15,525
Speaker 6: it herself if it's going to get done at all,

535
00:29:15,965 --> 00:29:19,645
Speaker 6: and there's you know, and she unlike unlike Mattie, she

536
00:29:19,685 --> 00:29:21,765
Speaker 6: doesn't really have much to offer for you know, she

537
00:29:22,005 --> 00:29:25,765
Speaker 6: has the last of her father's swords, but that doesn't

538
00:29:25,845 --> 00:29:29,885
Speaker 6: really make a difference to Supergirl, who you know, can

539
00:29:30,285 --> 00:29:33,445
Speaker 6: punch holes in the sides of battleships and doesn't use

540
00:29:33,525 --> 00:29:36,925
Speaker 6: or need a Sword, So in terms of the amount

541
00:29:36,965 --> 00:29:41,285
Speaker 6: of choice going on here and the amount of distrust

542
00:29:41,325 --> 00:29:45,565
Speaker 6: of adult authority, I think they're kind of kind of

543
00:29:45,685 --> 00:29:50,525
Speaker 6: notably different characters. But then in execution, I just I

544
00:29:50,605 --> 00:29:55,685
Speaker 6: just feel like the filmmakers didn't trust us to realize

545
00:29:55,685 --> 00:29:59,445
Speaker 6: that Supergirl was the hero of this movie if Ruthie

546
00:29:59,485 --> 00:30:03,165
Speaker 6: was capable at all, you know, because Maddie is pretty

547
00:30:03,205 --> 00:30:05,565
Speaker 6: capable and does a handful of things to prove it.

548
00:30:06,285 --> 00:30:10,605
Speaker 6: Ruthie until the cage sequence towards the end, you know,

549
00:30:10,645 --> 00:30:12,805
Speaker 6: she doesn't have a swimming in the river moment, she

550
00:30:12,845 --> 00:30:15,045
Speaker 6: doesn't have a pulling down on Tom Cheney with a

551
00:30:15,085 --> 00:30:18,685
Speaker 6: gun mid film moment. She just keeps getting rescued over

552
00:30:18,725 --> 00:30:22,365
Speaker 6: and over and over. And she's just as bullheaded, you know.

553
00:30:22,605 --> 00:30:25,365
Speaker 6: So she keeps charging into danger, which means super Girl

554
00:30:25,405 --> 00:30:28,965
Speaker 6: has to rescue her more. And one of the things

555
00:30:29,005 --> 00:30:31,765
Speaker 6: that I found just like a sort of ongoing background

556
00:30:31,805 --> 00:30:35,645
Speaker 6: to irritant in this movie was just the really repetitive

557
00:30:35,685 --> 00:30:39,325
Speaker 6: loop of you know, Ruthy's attitude gets her into trouble,

558
00:30:39,685 --> 00:30:44,125
Speaker 6: super Girl rescuers or repeat, repeat, repeat, repeat, repeat, which is,

559
00:30:44,325 --> 00:30:48,445
Speaker 6: we have Maddie's attitude to contend with in true grit,

560
00:30:48,885 --> 00:30:51,645
Speaker 6: but it takes all sorts of different forms, and she

561
00:30:51,805 --> 00:30:55,685
Speaker 6: isn't in constant need of rescue. She's maybe in biggest

562
00:30:55,765 --> 00:31:00,605
Speaker 6: picture in need of rescue emotionally, but in terms of Okay,

563
00:31:00,605 --> 00:31:03,045
Speaker 6: the bad guys are going to kill her again right now.

564
00:31:03,205 --> 00:31:06,165
Speaker 6: If I don't do something, we don't have to deal

565
00:31:06,205 --> 00:31:08,685
Speaker 6: with that loop a thousand times in true grint.

566
00:31:09,205 --> 00:31:12,365
Speaker 4: Yes, it's only really towards the very end that she's in,

567
00:31:12,765 --> 00:31:16,525
Speaker 4: like you're pronounced peril, and part of that has to

568
00:31:16,565 --> 00:31:18,285
Speaker 4: do with the snake, not the actual bad guys.

569
00:31:18,445 --> 00:31:20,925
Speaker 6: That's true. And you made a point about the emotion

570
00:31:21,325 --> 00:31:25,565
Speaker 6: impact of that sequence, and just like how hard Cogburn

571
00:31:25,765 --> 00:31:29,445
Speaker 6: like works to keep her alive, it's also just it's

572
00:31:29,485 --> 00:31:32,365
Speaker 6: emotionally impactful because we haven't already seen it twelve times

573
00:31:32,405 --> 00:31:33,645
Speaker 6: in the movie so far.

574
00:31:34,205 --> 00:31:37,005
Speaker 3: Yeap, is there something to be said too about the

575
00:31:37,085 --> 00:31:41,725
Speaker 3: fact that Ruthie actually witnesses the loss of all of

576
00:31:41,765 --> 00:31:46,165
Speaker 3: her family members, whereas Mattie is at least disconnected from

577
00:31:46,245 --> 00:31:49,405
Speaker 3: that incident. And you know, because it seems to kind

578
00:31:49,445 --> 00:31:53,245
Speaker 3: of affect the tone of these movies a little differently,

579
00:31:53,605 --> 00:31:55,925
Speaker 3: there's like, I guess a little you know, I mean,

580
00:31:55,925 --> 00:31:59,925
Speaker 3: you would feel more trauma, grief, et cetera if you

581
00:31:59,965 --> 00:32:02,805
Speaker 3: were to have actually been there in a way that

582
00:32:03,085 --> 00:32:06,725
Speaker 3: Ruthie is and where you know, as opposed to Mattie,

583
00:32:06,725 --> 00:32:09,725
Speaker 3: who is responding to a situation that she wasn't actually

584
00:32:09,805 --> 00:32:12,605
Speaker 3: you know, there to I don't know see on her own?

585
00:32:12,605 --> 00:32:12,845
Speaker 5: Did it?

586
00:32:12,845 --> 00:32:14,085
Speaker 3: Did it make a difference to you?

587
00:32:14,125 --> 00:32:16,325
Speaker 5: All those two things before.

588
00:32:16,125 --> 00:32:18,405
Speaker 4: We get into that, you know you're saying that makes

589
00:32:18,445 --> 00:32:22,725
Speaker 4: me think about saying about true grit because we see

590
00:32:22,925 --> 00:32:26,525
Speaker 4: her father's body and the opening scene, right, but is

591
00:32:26,525 --> 00:32:29,485
Speaker 4: that the only moment in the film that's really removed

592
00:32:29,525 --> 00:32:32,965
Speaker 4: from Mattie's point of view, like that memory.

593
00:32:34,965 --> 00:32:38,245
Speaker 3: Too, that, Yeah, that shot of that of the body.

594
00:32:38,085 --> 00:32:39,645
Speaker 5: Because I don't think we leave her side for the

595
00:32:39,685 --> 00:32:40,605
Speaker 5: rest of the movie, do we.

596
00:32:40,845 --> 00:32:43,485
Speaker 6: I'd have to rewatch it with that specifically in mind.

597
00:32:43,525 --> 00:32:46,325
Speaker 6: I wouldn't want to say that we definitively don't and

598
00:32:46,405 --> 00:32:48,125
Speaker 6: then and then be proved wrong.

599
00:32:48,685 --> 00:32:50,445
Speaker 5: Yeah, well not much anyway.

600
00:32:51,005 --> 00:32:53,525
Speaker 6: Yeah, but that's a really good point. It is it

601
00:32:53,605 --> 00:32:57,605
Speaker 6: is stylized. It's a story that she's telling us, and

602
00:32:57,645 --> 00:33:01,765
Speaker 6: it's very clearly a story that lives in her imagination.

603
00:33:01,885 --> 00:33:03,645
Speaker 6: But it has to it has to be part of

604
00:33:03,645 --> 00:33:07,045
Speaker 6: her imagination because she wasn't there. And you know, given

605
00:33:07,085 --> 00:33:11,605
Speaker 6: how capable and headstrong Mattie is and how determined she

606
00:33:11,845 --> 00:33:14,165
Speaker 6: is that the world will it has not yet been

607
00:33:14,205 --> 00:33:16,445
Speaker 6: proven to her definitively that the world does not work

608
00:33:16,485 --> 00:33:19,685
Speaker 6: the way she says it's going to. I have to

609
00:33:19,725 --> 00:33:21,405
Speaker 6: imagine that somewhere in the back of her is the

610
00:33:21,405 --> 00:33:24,725
Speaker 6: feeling that if she'd been there, she could have fixed things,

611
00:33:24,845 --> 00:33:27,245
Speaker 6: she could have made sure that that didn't happen somehow,

612
00:33:27,645 --> 00:33:31,125
Speaker 6: you know, whereas Ruthie was there and was completely helpless,

613
00:33:31,285 --> 00:33:34,725
Speaker 6: and so you know, she's acting out against that helplessness.

614
00:33:35,245 --> 00:33:37,645
Speaker 6: There is also a sense of which, you know, it's

615
00:33:37,645 --> 00:33:42,765
Speaker 6: clear that Ruthie, Ruthie got to see Cram and see

616
00:33:42,805 --> 00:33:46,005
Speaker 6: like how fearsome he is and went on to fight

617
00:33:46,085 --> 00:33:48,885
Speaker 6: him anyway, like, went on to chase him across the galaxy.

618
00:33:49,365 --> 00:33:53,005
Speaker 6: Maddie clearly had met Cheney, but thinks of him as

619
00:33:53,085 --> 00:33:56,845
Speaker 6: kind of adult and says so till the beef and

620
00:33:57,605 --> 00:34:02,845
Speaker 6: one of their their better fencing matches. She clearly does

621
00:34:02,885 --> 00:34:07,045
Speaker 6: not have anywhere near this sort of She's not haunted

622
00:34:07,045 --> 00:34:09,725
Speaker 6: by him, She just you know, needs to see him

623
00:34:09,765 --> 00:34:13,125
Speaker 6: brought in whereas Ruthie is kind of haunted by Cram

624
00:34:13,165 --> 00:34:15,884
Speaker 6: and the Raiders, she knows what they're capable of, so

625
00:34:16,165 --> 00:34:19,725
Speaker 6: in a way, it's it's braver what she's doing, whereas

626
00:34:19,725 --> 00:34:24,965
Speaker 6: Mattie is coming from a place of like ignorance and youth,

627
00:34:25,325 --> 00:34:29,364
Speaker 6: you know, lack of experience with the world covered over

628
00:34:29,405 --> 00:34:32,005
Speaker 6: by a teen arrogance. So I think I think that's

629
00:34:32,045 --> 00:34:34,005
Speaker 6: where it makes a difference for me Scott in terms

630
00:34:34,005 --> 00:34:35,525
Speaker 6: of kind of those two perspectives.

631
00:34:35,685 --> 00:34:38,525
Speaker 4: Yeah, one other thing, like the heart of both of

632
00:34:38,525 --> 00:34:41,605
Speaker 4: these movies is a journey, and in Drew get a

633
00:34:41,725 --> 00:34:44,325
Speaker 4: journey through the American West, who has some very untamed

634
00:34:44,325 --> 00:34:48,005
Speaker 4: corners of the American West. Supergirl's equivalent is I actually

635
00:34:48,005 --> 00:34:49,965
Speaker 4: thought one of the better parts of the film was

636
00:34:50,165 --> 00:34:53,364
Speaker 4: kind of this tour of like bus stations and convenience

637
00:34:53,365 --> 00:34:57,845
Speaker 4: stores and backwaters. We only get like a really proper

638
00:34:58,565 --> 00:35:03,805
Speaker 4: Western style setting once they arrive at the planet where

639
00:35:04,005 --> 00:35:07,085
Speaker 4: the Brigands are are hanging out. What did you think

640
00:35:07,245 --> 00:35:12,485
Speaker 4: of that sort of alternative to the.

641
00:35:11,725 --> 00:35:13,445
Speaker 5: Old West that we get in Supergirl.

642
00:35:13,685 --> 00:35:17,165
Speaker 6: I will say we do get a small snippet of

643
00:35:17,205 --> 00:35:21,444
Speaker 6: it earlier in the scene where Ruthy meets Souper Girl.

644
00:35:22,405 --> 00:35:26,565
Speaker 6: When Supergirl goes after the guy who the alien who

645
00:35:26,925 --> 00:35:30,285
Speaker 6: has just stolen Ruthy's sword and tossed her aside. She

646
00:35:30,405 --> 00:35:32,765
Speaker 6: comes out and there's just it's just a straight up,

647
00:35:32,885 --> 00:35:38,165
Speaker 6: you know, confrontation on main Street at noon, you know,

648
00:35:38,245 --> 00:35:41,525
Speaker 6: gunslinger face off, complete with like the shot of the

649
00:35:41,565 --> 00:35:43,845
Speaker 6: two of them facing each other. Of course it's happening

650
00:35:43,925 --> 00:35:46,645
Speaker 6: at night in the dark, and one of the combatants

651
00:35:46,685 --> 00:35:50,645
Speaker 6: is drunk off of her ass, but there there is

652
00:35:50,845 --> 00:35:53,885
Speaker 6: very much a high noon kind of feeling to the

653
00:35:53,885 --> 00:35:55,725
Speaker 6: way that scene is framed and shot.

654
00:35:55,765 --> 00:35:58,405
Speaker 3: At least I feel like with Supergirl there's kind of

655
00:35:58,725 --> 00:36:03,965
Speaker 3: it's a little guilty of sort of the mosies lefication

656
00:36:04,325 --> 00:36:05,965
Speaker 3: of these types.

657
00:36:05,725 --> 00:36:08,965
Speaker 5: Of movies where we got there Scott.

658
00:36:08,965 --> 00:36:11,165
Speaker 3: Where you get these kind of bar scenes all the time,

659
00:36:11,165 --> 00:36:14,285
Speaker 3: where you're just thrown into these onto these planets, into

660
00:36:14,285 --> 00:36:16,925
Speaker 3: these settings where where there are a bunch of where

661
00:36:16,685 --> 00:36:20,485
Speaker 3: the creature effects go wild, and there's all kinds of

662
00:36:20,605 --> 00:36:24,404
Speaker 3: it's a chance for our reluctant hero to get get

663
00:36:24,525 --> 00:36:26,805
Speaker 3: in a little bit of a bar berall with some

664
00:36:26,845 --> 00:36:31,405
Speaker 3: strange beings. There's a little bit of sameness there, But

665
00:36:31,605 --> 00:36:34,405
Speaker 3: I dost think the kind of sameness of this film

666
00:36:34,485 --> 00:36:36,445
Speaker 3: is sort of the point. I mean, you know, I

667
00:36:36,445 --> 00:36:40,165
Speaker 3: think when you've been drinking as much as Superherol drinks

668
00:36:40,645 --> 00:36:44,885
Speaker 3: in this movie, that that has a way of flattening locations,

669
00:36:44,885 --> 00:36:47,165
Speaker 3: that has a way of making different planets look like

670
00:36:47,165 --> 00:36:49,125
Speaker 3: the same planet, different bars look like the same bar.

671
00:36:50,245 --> 00:36:53,565
Speaker 3: This this kind of habit that she's gotten into, and

672
00:36:53,685 --> 00:36:57,205
Speaker 3: the film kind of reflects that it is not It

673
00:36:57,245 --> 00:37:00,085
Speaker 3: does not have I'm afraid to say the richness of

674
00:37:00,925 --> 00:37:04,884
Speaker 3: the Collin's portrait of the post war American West. I'm

675
00:37:04,885 --> 00:37:09,005
Speaker 3: sorry to say point point True Grit on that one too.

676
00:37:09,245 --> 00:37:10,884
Speaker 3: I don't know, I don't you know. I just think

677
00:37:10,885 --> 00:37:13,685
Speaker 3: there's a lot more to kind of dig into in

678
00:37:13,765 --> 00:37:17,885
Speaker 3: terms of the relationship between the world of the film

679
00:37:18,525 --> 00:37:21,005
Speaker 3: and in True Grit, and the way the character is

680
00:37:21,085 --> 00:37:24,365
Speaker 3: kind of interact with that world morally, you know, the

681
00:37:24,405 --> 00:37:27,125
Speaker 3: way they kind of you know, the question of justice

682
00:37:27,165 --> 00:37:29,884
Speaker 3: and vengeance, and and how that that that is kind

683
00:37:29,925 --> 00:37:34,565
Speaker 3: of seeking justice becomes a much different sort of thing

684
00:37:34,885 --> 00:37:37,805
Speaker 3: in this in this particular environment in a way that's

685
00:37:37,805 --> 00:37:42,405
Speaker 3: so thematically compelling. I'm trying to grasp onto what it

686
00:37:42,485 --> 00:37:47,845
Speaker 3: is about, you know, the backdrops, I suppose in super

687
00:37:47,845 --> 00:37:50,205
Speaker 3: Girl that that feel as textured.

688
00:37:50,965 --> 00:37:53,445
Speaker 4: Maybe I'm missing something very Star Wars. I mean, I

689
00:37:53,445 --> 00:37:56,605
Speaker 4: think you're right with the moss ilification of space. In

690
00:37:56,925 --> 00:37:59,045
Speaker 4: a way, there's parts of me that made me think

691
00:37:59,085 --> 00:38:01,485
Speaker 4: this has kind of had a little bit more Star

692
00:38:01,565 --> 00:38:05,845
Speaker 4: Wars iness to it than the Mandalorian and Grogu. But

693
00:38:05,885 --> 00:38:08,405
Speaker 4: maybe I've just been you know, you know, a little

694
00:38:09,445 --> 00:38:11,404
Speaker 4: a little too short, a little too sharp there.

695
00:38:11,885 --> 00:38:14,085
Speaker 6: I think of it as maybe a little less Star

696
00:38:14,125 --> 00:38:17,885
Speaker 6: Wars afying and a little more Guardians of the Galaxy afying. Sure,

697
00:38:18,165 --> 00:38:22,325
Speaker 6: because I feel like Guns kind of drawn a portrait

698
00:38:22,485 --> 00:38:29,965
Speaker 6: of DC in the space that's this messy, like overlapping

699
00:38:31,045 --> 00:38:35,765
Speaker 6: lots of different aliens with you know, kind of low motivations,

700
00:38:35,845 --> 00:38:39,165
Speaker 6: kind of kind of place something that does feel battered

701
00:38:39,205 --> 00:38:43,285
Speaker 6: and used the way Star Wars settings you know, quote

702
00:38:43,365 --> 00:38:46,485
Speaker 6: unquote current era Star Wars settings as opposed to like

703
00:38:46,605 --> 00:38:50,605
Speaker 6: high Republic era settings. So yeah, I mean, maybe that

704
00:38:50,685 --> 00:38:53,565
Speaker 6: all came out of Star Wars as well, Who knows.

705
00:38:54,045 --> 00:38:57,844
Speaker 6: To some degree it comes from trying to turn the galaxy,

706
00:38:58,085 --> 00:39:01,045
Speaker 6: the DC Galaxy of the comics into something that can

707
00:39:01,125 --> 00:39:04,725
Speaker 6: be like reduced down to a backdrop for single films.

708
00:39:05,245 --> 00:39:08,525
Speaker 6: But here, Keith, to go back to your original question,

709
00:39:09,525 --> 00:39:12,205
Speaker 6: I don't know that I really feel the Old West

710
00:39:12,405 --> 00:39:17,965
Speaker 6: of that final confrontation, you know, the sequence where Supergirl

711
00:39:18,005 --> 00:39:21,245
Speaker 6: is on the planet with the Green Sun, which I

712
00:39:21,285 --> 00:39:23,245
Speaker 6: don't know. This is another part that the comics did,

713
00:39:23,245 --> 00:39:25,925
Speaker 6: and the comics did it better in that there's an

714
00:39:25,965 --> 00:39:31,445
Speaker 6: explanation for the Green Sun, which is an artificial It's

715
00:39:31,445 --> 00:39:35,205
Speaker 6: an artificial planet that was created to trap Superman in

716
00:39:35,245 --> 00:39:38,165
Speaker 6: a previous story arc, which makes a lot more sense

717
00:39:38,205 --> 00:39:44,565
Speaker 6: to me than a Kryptonite Sun somehow. Sure, I don't

718
00:39:44,565 --> 00:39:48,525
Speaker 6: know what that even means. That world though, and the

719
00:39:48,965 --> 00:39:54,405
Speaker 6: kind of like sun blasted barrenness of it does feel

720
00:39:54,445 --> 00:39:57,325
Speaker 6: like a Western setting. But once they catch up with

721
00:39:57,365 --> 00:40:00,245
Speaker 6: the Raiders and start fighting them, you know, we're we're

722
00:40:00,365 --> 00:40:04,445
Speaker 6: much more for me in mad Max Land than we

723
00:40:04,525 --> 00:40:10,645
Speaker 6: are in classic Western land. You see, I prove me wrong, Like.

724
00:40:11,205 --> 00:40:13,165
Speaker 4: Well, actually kind of kind of referra more to the

725
00:40:13,165 --> 00:40:15,245
Speaker 4: town before that. But I do think like the whole

726
00:40:15,645 --> 00:40:18,525
Speaker 4: a Kryptonite Sun thing is, it's very much the man

727
00:40:18,565 --> 00:40:20,405
Speaker 4: with no Name gets beat up and has to like

728
00:40:20,605 --> 00:40:22,245
Speaker 4: you know, himself back to health.

729
00:40:22,125 --> 00:40:23,844
Speaker 5: An inner Barn kind of moment too.

730
00:40:24,005 --> 00:40:27,685
Speaker 4: You know, but yeah, the final fight is definitely We're

731
00:40:27,685 --> 00:40:31,565
Speaker 4: in Mad Max's science fiction territory and we're in slow

732
00:40:31,645 --> 00:40:35,245
Speaker 4: motion and we got a prominent needle drop of a

733
00:40:35,645 --> 00:40:37,365
Speaker 4: not great cover of a great song.

734
00:40:37,805 --> 00:40:41,844
Speaker 6: But oh, that's when we were talking about Craig Gillespie's

735
00:40:41,885 --> 00:40:46,364
Speaker 6: style and I was chaffing him for copycatting James gunn.

736
00:40:46,405 --> 00:40:49,525
Speaker 6: I completely forgot about the needle drops, which are another

737
00:40:49,685 --> 00:40:51,885
Speaker 6: you know, big, big, big James gun signature.

738
00:40:52,165 --> 00:40:54,765
Speaker 4: Yeah, but I mean they're a glossy thing too, but

739
00:40:54,805 --> 00:40:57,364
Speaker 4: with Golspie's it tends to be more like a zomcasy.

740
00:40:57,965 --> 00:40:58,125
Speaker 5: You know.

741
00:40:58,165 --> 00:41:00,845
Speaker 4: These are familiar songs that you know, and this is

742
00:41:00,885 --> 00:41:05,645
Speaker 4: a familiar song, but it's covered by artist named Kilty

743
00:41:05,725 --> 00:41:08,165
Speaker 4: Gray and Kid Motel, which I'm not familiar with. But

744
00:41:08,205 --> 00:41:10,485
Speaker 4: I'm old, so I don't. I don't necessarily know all

745
00:41:10,525 --> 00:41:13,045
Speaker 4: the all the hip new bands. I didn't really care

746
00:41:13,085 --> 00:41:15,685
Speaker 4: for this cover of the Jimmy World song.

747
00:41:15,765 --> 00:41:18,325
Speaker 3: Though it probably is like some sort of like a

748
00:41:18,365 --> 00:41:20,605
Speaker 3: billion views on TikTok or something. It was something we

749
00:41:20,765 --> 00:41:23,125
Speaker 3: was like screaming at us right now.

750
00:41:23,125 --> 00:41:23,525
Speaker 5: I don't know.

751
00:41:23,765 --> 00:41:26,045
Speaker 6: Maybe I'm not sure that the kids are listening to

752
00:41:26,045 --> 00:41:29,404
Speaker 6: this podcast. I think not being on YouTube might hurt

753
00:41:29,445 --> 00:41:30,645
Speaker 6: us with the kids.

754
00:41:30,925 --> 00:41:31,884
Speaker 5: They're they're cool.

755
00:41:31,925 --> 00:41:34,045
Speaker 3: Middle aged parents are listening and they're screaming in the

756
00:41:34,165 --> 00:41:38,285
Speaker 3: in the back seat to make it stop. Other connections here, Keith,

757
00:41:38,445 --> 00:41:41,805
Speaker 3: you have written down is uh the bad guys are

758
00:41:41,885 --> 00:41:46,805
Speaker 3: kind of worth speaking about, really really really bad bad guys,

759
00:41:46,845 --> 00:41:47,125
Speaker 3: as you.

760
00:41:47,125 --> 00:41:50,325
Speaker 5: Put it both in both films. For sure, Yes, so

761
00:41:50,365 --> 00:41:50,765
Speaker 5: I would.

762
00:41:50,765 --> 00:41:53,485
Speaker 3: I will kind of still give the edge to super

763
00:41:53,885 --> 00:41:58,844
Speaker 3: to Krim. I guess it's Supergirl as being I mean,

764
00:41:58,845 --> 00:42:03,205
Speaker 3: they're there, they are they're raiders who who in pirates

765
00:42:03,245 --> 00:42:07,005
Speaker 3: who and thieves and scoundrels who who will kind of

766
00:42:07,005 --> 00:42:10,845
Speaker 3: take advantage of any situation and have no you know,

767
00:42:10,925 --> 00:42:15,885
Speaker 3: no compunction to restrain themselves at all and getting whatever

768
00:42:15,925 --> 00:42:19,285
Speaker 3: it is that they want. I think again, you know,

769
00:42:20,045 --> 00:42:23,285
Speaker 3: I don't. I don't really keep harping on quality here,

770
00:42:23,925 --> 00:42:28,685
Speaker 3: but there's something so specific about James Brolin's depiction of

771
00:42:28,805 --> 00:42:32,285
Speaker 3: Tom Cheney that stands out. I mean, I think you've

772
00:42:32,605 --> 00:42:35,844
Speaker 3: I think you've seen this type of character before. There's

773
00:42:35,885 --> 00:42:40,285
Speaker 3: something there's a fundamental weakness to him. You know, he's

774
00:42:40,325 --> 00:42:43,925
Speaker 3: not he's not imposing in a way that really upsets

775
00:42:44,365 --> 00:42:47,005
Speaker 3: or rattles Maddie. I mean, Maddie has put in a

776
00:42:47,005 --> 00:42:49,565
Speaker 3: spot at a spot where she she has to take action,

777
00:42:49,645 --> 00:42:53,605
Speaker 3: and that's scary for her. But she's not really scared

778
00:42:53,645 --> 00:42:55,485
Speaker 3: of him, and she doesn't really have reason to be

779
00:42:55,525 --> 00:42:58,125
Speaker 3: in the same way that everyone has good reason to

780
00:42:58,125 --> 00:43:02,365
Speaker 3: be afraid of Krim, given given his power and his

781
00:43:02,405 --> 00:43:06,125
Speaker 3: ability and his hench people and his ability to create

782
00:43:06,605 --> 00:43:10,125
Speaker 3: mass chaos. But I think there's something kind of but

783
00:43:10,285 --> 00:43:12,885
Speaker 3: I mean, but still in both cases, you know, you

784
00:43:12,965 --> 00:43:15,565
Speaker 3: have to, you know, grapple with a villain that is

785
00:43:15,605 --> 00:43:18,445
Speaker 3: really truly capable of doing anything, because there's just nothing,

786
00:43:18,725 --> 00:43:21,444
Speaker 3: there's no moral sense, nothing but holding them back from

787
00:43:21,485 --> 00:43:22,085
Speaker 3: getting what they.

788
00:43:22,085 --> 00:43:27,125
Speaker 6: Want, not to not to throw another rock on the

789
00:43:27,445 --> 00:43:31,565
Speaker 6: on the scales on the true grit side. But Tom

790
00:43:31,645 --> 00:43:34,885
Speaker 6: Cheney's another character that we don't really learn a whole

791
00:43:34,965 --> 00:43:38,325
Speaker 6: lot about. And yet the little speech that he gives

792
00:43:38,365 --> 00:43:41,845
Speaker 6: that's basically just a self pitying like everybody's against me.

793
00:43:43,085 --> 00:43:47,885
Speaker 6: To Maddie. His whole backstory seems to ahimount to I

794
00:43:48,645 --> 00:43:51,605
Speaker 6: just don't got the luck like people, I get no respect.

795
00:43:52,405 --> 00:43:56,205
Speaker 6: People are constantly demanding that I, you know, surrender the

796
00:43:56,245 --> 00:43:59,844
Speaker 6: money that I lose at gambling and not kill them

797
00:43:59,885 --> 00:44:03,645
Speaker 6: and take their stuff, and you know, it's the world

798
00:44:03,685 --> 00:44:07,405
Speaker 6: is against me. It's just it's tough on me that

799
00:44:07,485 --> 00:44:09,685
Speaker 6: my luck is so bad now this kid has come

800
00:44:09,685 --> 00:44:13,485
Speaker 6: along and shot me. Oh no, it is the inevitable

801
00:44:13,645 --> 00:44:18,404
Speaker 6: consequences of my actions. Yeah, it's just that it makes

802
00:44:18,445 --> 00:44:20,525
Speaker 6: him a really interesting character. I mean, it means that

803
00:44:20,565 --> 00:44:23,565
Speaker 6: we need Barry Pepper as Ned Pepper to kind of

804
00:44:23,605 --> 00:44:28,605
Speaker 6: like back him up as a scarier villain. Because Tom,

805
00:44:28,805 --> 00:44:32,325
Speaker 6: even after all of this pursuit of him and obsession

806
00:44:32,365 --> 00:44:36,565
Speaker 6: with him, is a pretty pathetic villain. You know, he's

807
00:44:36,685 --> 00:44:41,285
Speaker 6: amoral and monstrous, but he's just not scary to an

808
00:44:41,285 --> 00:44:46,365
Speaker 6: adult viewer's eye. He's pathetic. Cram, on the other hand,

809
00:44:46,645 --> 00:44:52,565
Speaker 6: seems like, I don't know, like somebody was writing what

810
00:44:52,645 --> 00:44:55,925
Speaker 6: they thought would be scary, and it's like, oh, he's

811
00:44:55,965 --> 00:44:58,125
Speaker 6: got red eyes, and he doesn't talk much, and he's

812
00:44:58,125 --> 00:45:01,005
Speaker 6: got scary facial piercings, and he wears battered leather and

813
00:45:01,445 --> 00:45:05,525
Speaker 6: he again cannot say it too many times, kidnaps and

814
00:45:05,565 --> 00:45:10,245
Speaker 6: sexually assaults children in order to maintain his all male

815
00:45:10,565 --> 00:45:14,725
Speaker 6: group of raiders, which I guess they throw away the

816
00:45:14,725 --> 00:45:16,965
Speaker 6: girl babies as well. I mean there's just sort of

817
00:45:16,965 --> 00:45:22,285
Speaker 6: an inherent monstrousness there being throw not a very casual

818
00:45:22,365 --> 00:45:26,805
Speaker 6: way and not actually becoming part of the story in

819
00:45:26,845 --> 00:45:32,125
Speaker 6: any like thoughtful way. Apart from and now we've got

820
00:45:32,165 --> 00:45:36,245
Speaker 6: a bunch of victims running around. It's he's not scary,

821
00:45:36,365 --> 00:45:39,805
Speaker 6: he's he's boring. I mean, you might as well introduce

822
00:45:39,885 --> 00:45:42,765
Speaker 6: him by saying he bites the heads off kittens. He's

823
00:45:42,805 --> 00:45:46,685
Speaker 6: a kitten head bitter. We're not gonna we don't need

824
00:45:46,725 --> 00:45:48,605
Speaker 6: anything more about him or who he is or what

825
00:45:48,685 --> 00:45:54,405
Speaker 6: who believes because kitten biten. Also, it's like a German word,

826
00:45:54,565 --> 00:45:56,045
Speaker 6: now that I say it out loud.

827
00:45:55,965 --> 00:45:56,605
Speaker 3: Kitten biten.

828
00:45:57,845 --> 00:46:00,805
Speaker 4: If you're gonna borrow from Mad Max, you know you

829
00:46:00,965 --> 00:46:03,404
Speaker 4: have to like face up to the fact that Mad

830
00:46:03,445 --> 00:46:06,085
Speaker 4: Max says some of this from film to film. It's

831
00:46:06,125 --> 00:46:10,685
Speaker 4: some of the best villains ever in science fiction movies.

832
00:46:10,765 --> 00:46:12,725
Speaker 4: So you know, you really should put a little more

833
00:46:12,725 --> 00:46:13,605
Speaker 4: investment into.

834
00:46:13,525 --> 00:46:15,525
Speaker 3: This is an important context too that you can really

835
00:46:15,605 --> 00:46:17,885
Speaker 3: grasp onto thematically in those villains too. I mean, you

836
00:46:17,885 --> 00:46:20,445
Speaker 3: think about it more. I think about Morton Joe all

837
00:46:20,485 --> 00:46:23,445
Speaker 3: the time when the Trump administration. I'm sorry, just like

838
00:46:23,845 --> 00:46:29,245
Speaker 3: that that just like right, exactly exactly. I mean, how

839
00:46:29,245 --> 00:46:31,964
Speaker 3: can you not connect to that level of vility because

840
00:46:31,965 --> 00:46:37,045
Speaker 3: that you know, denying and then occasionally parsing out something

841
00:46:37,085 --> 00:46:40,364
Speaker 3: that is so precious and essential for human human life

842
00:46:40,365 --> 00:46:43,444
Speaker 3: and that you need that he needs something other than oh,

843
00:46:43,485 --> 00:46:45,285
Speaker 3: this is just a guy who who is just awful

844
00:46:45,285 --> 00:46:47,725
Speaker 3: and can you know, destroy a whole room full of

845
00:46:47,725 --> 00:46:50,765
Speaker 3: people without giving any thought Like that's not enough. There

846
00:46:50,765 --> 00:46:51,245
Speaker 3: needs to be.

847
00:46:52,005 --> 00:46:53,445
Speaker 5: There needs to be I think a.

848
00:46:53,445 --> 00:46:56,165
Speaker 3: Little bit more thematic purpose to it, and I think

849
00:46:56,245 --> 00:46:58,885
Speaker 3: I think and I think really you can look at

850
00:46:59,205 --> 00:47:02,925
Speaker 3: Cheney as being a product of his time, as being

851
00:47:02,965 --> 00:47:05,844
Speaker 3: the type of person who can you know, like again,

852
00:47:05,885 --> 00:47:08,325
Speaker 3: if we're talking about if I made the Third Band comparison,

853
00:47:08,445 --> 00:47:12,085
Speaker 3: like a like a less elegant Harry Lyme who's kind

854
00:47:12,085 --> 00:47:15,125
Speaker 3: of can operate in this world, in the shadows of

855
00:47:15,165 --> 00:47:17,525
Speaker 3: this world because no one is going to stop him.

856
00:47:17,525 --> 00:47:19,844
Speaker 3: He can kind of he can be a scoundrel because

857
00:47:19,885 --> 00:47:22,125
Speaker 3: this is the world that is created him and in

858
00:47:22,165 --> 00:47:25,725
Speaker 3: his world that sustains him. And you know that's different

859
00:47:25,725 --> 00:47:27,285
Speaker 3: than what I think we get in Supergirl.

860
00:47:29,205 --> 00:47:31,485
Speaker 6: In True Great we've got ned Pepper as a backup

861
00:47:31,565 --> 00:47:34,805
Speaker 6: villain and he's somebody else we don't learn a ton about,

862
00:47:35,605 --> 00:47:39,485
Speaker 6: but when he's very clearly got an ethos. You know,

863
00:47:39,725 --> 00:47:43,925
Speaker 6: he leads this gang of criminals who are devoted to him,

864
00:47:44,645 --> 00:47:46,485
Speaker 6: even though there are a bunch of weirdos, one of

865
00:47:46,525 --> 00:47:50,125
Speaker 6: whom his presence consists entirely of a series of amusing

866
00:47:50,245 --> 00:47:56,645
Speaker 6: animal impressions. But his like the way that he treats Maddie,

867
00:47:56,765 --> 00:48:01,685
Speaker 6: you know, courteously and almost kindly. He does not hesitate

868
00:48:01,725 --> 00:48:04,605
Speaker 6: to literally step on her face and threaten her life

869
00:48:05,045 --> 00:48:07,005
Speaker 6: to get what he wants. But he's a man of

870
00:48:07,005 --> 00:48:10,685
Speaker 6: his word in terms of keeping her safe. When he

871
00:48:10,925 --> 00:48:14,245
Speaker 6: leaves her behind with Tom Cheney, there is sort of

872
00:48:14,245 --> 00:48:17,245
Speaker 6: a question of what exactly his intent is. It seems

873
00:48:17,245 --> 00:48:19,884
Speaker 6: to me like his intent is to like ditch this

874
00:48:20,005 --> 00:48:24,325
Speaker 6: wild card who is with trouble more than necessarily to

875
00:48:24,965 --> 00:48:28,325
Speaker 6: harm either of the two of them, But like leaving

876
00:48:28,365 --> 00:48:31,165
Speaker 6: the two troublesome elements alone with each other and not

877
00:48:31,245 --> 00:48:35,245
Speaker 6: necessarily caring how that falls out. Is certainly a choice.

878
00:48:35,685 --> 00:48:39,245
Speaker 6: But you know, up until then, he has a courtesy

879
00:48:39,325 --> 00:48:43,045
Speaker 6: about him, and again he clearly has an ethos. And

880
00:48:43,085 --> 00:48:47,605
Speaker 6: again what's missing from Krem is any sense of an ethos,

881
00:48:47,645 --> 00:48:51,325
Speaker 6: a purpose, a belief system, something he falls back on

882
00:48:51,445 --> 00:48:53,484
Speaker 6: that isn't just raw raw rare, kill kill.

883
00:48:54,005 --> 00:48:55,885
Speaker 4: We should probably start to wind down, but I think

884
00:48:55,965 --> 00:48:59,285
Speaker 4: we probably should talk about what you know, thematically connects

885
00:48:59,325 --> 00:49:02,485
Speaker 4: these films, which is they're both stories about revenge, justice

886
00:49:02,685 --> 00:49:05,725
Speaker 4: and vengeance. I mean, again, I feel like we're just

887
00:49:05,765 --> 00:49:07,685
Speaker 4: piling on, but I feel like True Grit has a

888
00:49:07,725 --> 00:49:10,365
Speaker 4: sense of that and something to say.

889
00:49:10,725 --> 00:49:13,885
Speaker 5: Or Supergirl. We get a lot of talk of super.

890
00:49:13,645 --> 00:49:17,885
Speaker 4: Girl protecting Ruthie from Committee, an act of a vengeance

891
00:49:17,925 --> 00:49:23,805
Speaker 4: that she'll regret, but it's all talk and and you know,

892
00:49:24,245 --> 00:49:26,645
Speaker 4: ultimately we never get like sort of the counterweight to that,

893
00:49:26,685 --> 00:49:30,365
Speaker 4: which is like Supergirl's own past and her own regrets

894
00:49:30,365 --> 00:49:33,325
Speaker 4: and the way they weigh on her. I guess we're

895
00:49:33,365 --> 00:49:35,085
Speaker 4: kind of supposed to maybe in two of them, by

896
00:49:35,525 --> 00:49:40,285
Speaker 4: the fact that she does this for Ruthie and does

897
00:49:40,405 --> 00:49:43,485
Speaker 4: kill Krem and perhaps not the first time she's done

898
00:49:43,485 --> 00:49:45,485
Speaker 4: such a thing. But I feel like there's a scene

899
00:49:45,525 --> 00:49:49,085
Speaker 4: missing or something that that would really kind of make

900
00:49:49,165 --> 00:49:52,845
Speaker 4: that land. I don't know what was you know, what

901
00:49:52,925 --> 00:49:54,165
Speaker 4: was your experience.

902
00:49:53,725 --> 00:49:57,365
Speaker 6: Watching it exactly that I saw the movie before reading

903
00:49:57,405 --> 00:50:01,205
Speaker 6: the comics, Mini series and the comics mini series. A

904
00:50:01,525 --> 00:50:05,965
Speaker 6: spoiler for this kind of edges right up to that ending,

905
00:50:06,165 --> 00:50:10,565
Speaker 6: and then has Ruthie stop Supergirl from killing him and

906
00:50:10,805 --> 00:50:15,205
Speaker 6: basically say, like, everything, everything you just preached to me about,

907
00:50:15,485 --> 00:50:17,605
Speaker 6: you know, murder leaving a scar on your heart is

908
00:50:17,805 --> 00:50:19,805
Speaker 6: true and I learned it from you, so I don't

909
00:50:19,845 --> 00:50:22,205
Speaker 6: want you to kill him for me, and end up

910
00:50:22,245 --> 00:50:25,485
Speaker 6: sticking him in the phantom zone for hundreds of years

911
00:50:25,925 --> 00:50:29,125
Speaker 6: and then pulling him out once he is repentant as

912
00:50:29,125 --> 00:50:32,365
Speaker 6: a new man. And then there's a weird, weird little

913
00:50:32,405 --> 00:50:36,405
Speaker 6: coda that has been much debated and that I find interesting,

914
00:50:36,525 --> 00:50:40,165
Speaker 6: though it doesn't land perfectly for me, but it's again

915
00:50:40,325 --> 00:50:44,845
Speaker 6: just so much more nuanced then Supergirl in the movie

916
00:50:45,085 --> 00:50:48,845
Speaker 6: kills Krem again to establish that she is not Superman,

917
00:50:49,245 --> 00:50:51,805
Speaker 6: that she is a different character with a different moral code,

918
00:50:52,525 --> 00:50:56,485
Speaker 6: and almost the rest of the story doesn't matter in

919
00:50:56,605 --> 00:50:58,884
Speaker 6: terms of how it leads up to that. I think

920
00:50:58,925 --> 00:51:00,845
Speaker 6: you could make an argument that part of what the

921
00:51:00,845 --> 00:51:06,765
Speaker 6: film is saying is that she thinks she is so damaged,

922
00:51:07,045 --> 00:51:10,085
Speaker 6: so jaded, that it doesn't really matter what happens to

923
00:51:10,125 --> 00:51:13,125
Speaker 6: her heart anymore. It doesn't matter what she does morally,

924
00:51:14,285 --> 00:51:19,405
Speaker 6: she is already so damaged that if she damages herself

925
00:51:19,445 --> 00:51:22,925
Speaker 6: a little bit more, it doesn't matter. Well, that is

926
00:51:22,965 --> 00:51:25,965
Speaker 6: a very sad and cynical thing to say, and it's

927
00:51:26,005 --> 00:51:29,605
Speaker 6: something that the film doesn't really contend with her address

928
00:51:29,645 --> 00:51:32,845
Speaker 6: in any way, and it's something that really doesn't go

929
00:51:33,045 --> 00:51:38,525
Speaker 6: well with her willingness to protect Ruthie or her you know,

930
00:51:38,645 --> 00:51:43,285
Speaker 6: devotion to Crypto as this like last little scrap of home,

931
00:51:43,525 --> 00:51:46,485
Speaker 6: you know, this very sentimental like affection that she has

932
00:51:46,565 --> 00:51:50,445
Speaker 6: for him, which is again the basis of a really

933
00:51:50,485 --> 00:51:53,765
Speaker 6: cool twist in the comics. So it truly just felt

934
00:51:53,805 --> 00:51:56,765
Speaker 6: to me like they took the comics, took every single

935
00:51:56,845 --> 00:51:59,405
Speaker 6: twist in it and untwisted it, ironed it out and

936
00:51:59,485 --> 00:52:05,245
Speaker 6: made it a completely straight line. And they couldn't have

937
00:52:05,365 --> 00:52:08,685
Speaker 6: fit comic the super horse like I'm not even to

938
00:52:08,725 --> 00:52:12,605
Speaker 6: me comic. The super horse in the Woman of Tomorrow

939
00:52:12,765 --> 00:52:16,085
Speaker 6: comic is what Lobo is in the Supergirl movie, just

940
00:52:16,125 --> 00:52:18,485
Speaker 6: like he's he's a I was gonna say a ride

941
00:52:18,565 --> 00:52:21,765
Speaker 6: in a drive in, but I guess a gallop in.

942
00:52:24,085 --> 00:52:28,805
Speaker 6: And the way his story wraps up on unravels requires

943
00:52:29,125 --> 00:52:33,165
Speaker 6: like a knowledge of Supergirl background that this comic is

944
00:52:33,325 --> 00:52:35,885
Speaker 6: not in any way providing, So that whole element was

945
00:52:36,045 --> 00:52:38,965
Speaker 6: weird for me, and I'm glad they didn't try to

946
00:52:39,285 --> 00:52:44,325
Speaker 6: which comet this, you know, the whole like time there

947
00:52:44,365 --> 00:52:49,245
Speaker 6: we go trot on. The whole obsession with with Crypto

948
00:52:49,325 --> 00:52:55,485
Speaker 6: as a symbol of like her remaining humanity or cryptonianity

949
00:52:55,645 --> 00:52:58,445
Speaker 6: or whatever it is, would kind of fall apart if

950
00:52:58,445 --> 00:53:01,005
Speaker 6: there was another super pet that she had also brought

951
00:53:01,045 --> 00:53:03,445
Speaker 6: with her who was also like just run around the

952
00:53:03,445 --> 00:53:04,205
Speaker 6: galaxy with her.

953
00:53:04,365 --> 00:53:04,565
Speaker 5: Yeah.

954
00:53:04,605 --> 00:53:07,965
Speaker 4: My fear is that Crypto is being so prominent in

955
00:53:08,005 --> 00:53:10,444
Speaker 4: these films that we may never get Streaky the super Cat.

956
00:53:10,725 --> 00:53:13,085
Speaker 4: And you know that may be the ultimate, the real

957
00:53:13,085 --> 00:53:15,165
Speaker 4: tragedy of this version of super Girl.

958
00:53:15,165 --> 00:53:16,245
Speaker 6: Be the super Monkey.

959
00:53:16,565 --> 00:53:20,285
Speaker 4: Yeah yeah, or there's there's more. But and I know

960
00:53:20,365 --> 00:53:22,685
Speaker 4: their names. I don't, I can't, I can't. I can't

961
00:53:22,685 --> 00:53:25,765
Speaker 4: reveal it.

962
00:53:24,445 --> 00:53:27,565
Speaker 6: That we we could just sit here like opposite each

963
00:53:27,605 --> 00:53:29,645
Speaker 6: other and throw these things back and forth, like over

964
00:53:29,725 --> 00:53:34,725
Speaker 6: Scott's head, since he's already said he's hopeless and extras.

965
00:53:35,325 --> 00:53:37,045
Speaker 3: You should only just make up. You can just make

966
00:53:37,125 --> 00:53:39,965
Speaker 3: up names and make up Streaky the super Cat.

967
00:53:40,005 --> 00:53:40,925
Speaker 5: Okay, that exists.

968
00:53:41,165 --> 00:53:45,565
Speaker 3: I'll take your word for it, but maybe maybe a

969
00:53:45,605 --> 00:53:46,245
Speaker 3: super Hamster.

970
00:53:46,485 --> 00:53:48,645
Speaker 6: When are we gonna It's like everybody's.

971
00:53:48,965 --> 00:53:52,685
Speaker 3: Some kind of like dissolve quiz type of thing where

972
00:53:52,685 --> 00:53:55,485
Speaker 3: it's like which which of these super pets is real

973
00:53:55,525 --> 00:53:56,645
Speaker 3: and which one we made up.

974
00:53:57,405 --> 00:54:01,445
Speaker 4: Mayer's hope is that Avengers Doomsday provides a window for

975
00:54:01,525 --> 00:54:05,165
Speaker 4: us to talk about and baffle Scott with our discussion

976
00:54:05,165 --> 00:54:09,245
Speaker 4: of frog Thor. This seems like a really good place

977
00:54:09,325 --> 00:54:11,245
Speaker 4: to end when you start talking about frog Thor.

978
00:54:11,765 --> 00:54:15,085
Speaker 6: Did we reach any conclusions about you know, vengeance and

979
00:54:15,325 --> 00:54:17,205
Speaker 6: justice in either one of these movies?

980
00:54:19,565 --> 00:54:24,285
Speaker 4: Not greats available on DVD and Blu Ray, and it's

981
00:54:24,285 --> 00:54:26,844
Speaker 4: also overvent Front on the usual services. You can also

982
00:54:26,885 --> 00:54:29,685
Speaker 4: find it on Paramount plus Canopy, and if you don't

983
00:54:29,725 --> 00:54:35,364
Speaker 4: mind some ads, Pluto Supergirl is currently in theaters. We'll

984
00:54:35,405 --> 00:54:48,685
Speaker 4: be right back with your Next Picture Show. Finally, it's

985
00:54:48,725 --> 00:54:50,805
Speaker 4: kind to recommend a film or film related item that

986
00:54:50,845 --> 00:54:52,844
Speaker 4: compliments this set of episodes. We call it your Next

987
00:54:52,845 --> 00:54:54,805
Speaker 4: Picture Show in the hopes that it'll put some interesting

988
00:54:54,885 --> 00:54:57,285
Speaker 4: choices on your radar. Scott, I believe you have a

989
00:54:57,365 --> 00:54:58,645
Speaker 4: film for us.

990
00:54:59,125 --> 00:55:02,565
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean we were talking about Hailey Steinfeld and

991
00:55:02,605 --> 00:55:04,445
Speaker 3: how great she is in Triggrit and how great she

992
00:55:04,565 --> 00:55:09,445
Speaker 3: is generally. And I cannot possibly let this episode go

993
00:55:09,565 --> 00:55:13,965
Speaker 3: by without giving a shout out to the Edge of Seventeen,

994
00:55:14,125 --> 00:55:18,965
Speaker 3: which is an absolutely fantastic underseen but still quite appreciated

995
00:55:18,965 --> 00:55:22,805
Speaker 3: by critics film from two thousand sixteen that was written

996
00:55:22,885 --> 00:55:26,045
Speaker 3: and directed by Kelly Freeman Craig, who's sort of a

997
00:55:26,165 --> 00:55:26,845
Speaker 3: James L.

998
00:55:27,045 --> 00:55:27,445
Speaker 5: Brooks.

999
00:55:27,885 --> 00:55:29,965
Speaker 3: I don't know discovery is the word, but they've worked

1000
00:55:30,005 --> 00:55:32,845
Speaker 3: together on this. And then also she did a wonderful

1001
00:55:32,885 --> 00:55:36,325
Speaker 3: adaptation of Are You there, God, It's Me Margaret that

1002
00:55:36,445 --> 00:55:38,485
Speaker 3: again didn't get seen as much as it should have,

1003
00:55:38,605 --> 00:55:42,805
Speaker 3: but in both both films are extremely insightful about the

1004
00:55:42,845 --> 00:55:46,245
Speaker 3: interior lives of girls of different ages. Here you have

1005
00:55:46,885 --> 00:55:50,285
Speaker 3: Hailey Steinfeld play someone who is the title suggests. On

1006
00:55:50,325 --> 00:55:52,805
Speaker 3: the Edge of Seventeen is a little bit later in

1007
00:55:52,925 --> 00:55:56,165
Speaker 3: high school. She doesn't have any friends. She has one

1008
00:55:56,205 --> 00:56:01,525
Speaker 3: friend basically, and she in Her main confidant in school

1009
00:56:01,645 --> 00:56:04,405
Speaker 3: is this teacher played by Woody Harrelson, who she likes

1010
00:56:04,405 --> 00:56:07,045
Speaker 3: to grouse to. But the problem with this one friend,

1011
00:56:07,285 --> 00:56:09,645
Speaker 3: she seems perfectly happy to have that one friend, who's

1012
00:56:09,645 --> 00:56:14,805
Speaker 3: played by the always amazing Hailey Lou Richardson is that

1013
00:56:15,365 --> 00:56:18,125
Speaker 3: is that her friend starts to have feelings for her

1014
00:56:18,125 --> 00:56:20,445
Speaker 3: brother and tries to get involved with her brother, and

1015
00:56:20,485 --> 00:56:23,045
Speaker 3: that kind of throws her world up in the air

1016
00:56:23,085 --> 00:56:26,085
Speaker 3: and makes her even more sort of alienated from her

1017
00:56:26,325 --> 00:56:29,245
Speaker 3: school and her you know, feel that much more isolated

1018
00:56:29,245 --> 00:56:29,885
Speaker 3: as a teenager.

1019
00:56:29,925 --> 00:56:30,765
Speaker 5: And it's just such.

1020
00:56:30,605 --> 00:56:35,885
Speaker 3: A warm, funny, insightful movie. Haley Steinfeld is terrific in it.

1021
00:56:35,885 --> 00:56:38,685
Speaker 3: It's just it's just basically, like I think I said

1022
00:56:38,685 --> 00:56:41,005
Speaker 3: at the time, it's like one of those movies that

1023
00:56:41,005 --> 00:56:43,565
Speaker 3: that you can you see it and you know that

1024
00:56:43,805 --> 00:56:46,165
Speaker 3: it didn't perform as well as it did, but then

1025
00:56:46,885 --> 00:56:48,525
Speaker 3: twenty years from now, it's going to be the type

1026
00:56:48,565 --> 00:56:51,205
Speaker 3: of movie that there's gonna be oral histories about. People

1027
00:56:51,205 --> 00:56:53,445
Speaker 3: are gonna remember it as being like this incredibly important

1028
00:56:53,445 --> 00:56:57,485
Speaker 3: movie of its time. I just think it's a wonderful film.

1029
00:56:57,805 --> 00:56:59,805
Speaker 3: So if you haven't seen it, highly recommend the Edges.

1030
00:56:59,885 --> 00:57:02,685
Speaker 3: So do you highly recommend to the director's follow up

1031
00:57:02,685 --> 00:57:05,045
Speaker 3: if you are you their God, it's me, Margaret, because

1032
00:57:05,085 --> 00:57:09,005
Speaker 3: I think that's really on the show Show So so

1033
00:57:09,245 --> 00:57:10,325
Speaker 3: we had a chance to recommend it.

1034
00:57:10,325 --> 00:57:10,605
Speaker 5: Back then.

1035
00:57:10,765 --> 00:57:12,525
Speaker 3: We had a lot of praise for that film.

1036
00:57:12,525 --> 00:57:16,765
Speaker 5: If I recall we're Freeman craigheads, we are.

1037
00:57:23,005 --> 00:57:25,565
Speaker 4: Well, that's it for this edition of the Next Picture Show, Scott,

1038
00:57:25,605 --> 00:57:26,885
Speaker 4: Can you tell us about our next pairing?

1039
00:57:27,445 --> 00:57:31,045
Speaker 3: Obviously we like the Coen Brothers around here. Back in May,

1040
00:57:31,045 --> 00:57:34,445
Speaker 3: we paired the bloody Minnesota set thriller Normal with the

1041
00:57:34,485 --> 00:57:38,205
Speaker 3: Cohen snowy neo noir Fargo, and just this week we

1042
00:57:38,285 --> 00:57:42,085
Speaker 3: paired Supergirl with the Cohen's adaptation of True Grit because

1043
00:57:42,085 --> 00:57:45,365
Speaker 3: their stories mapped onto each other so perfectly. Now, with

1044
00:57:45,445 --> 00:57:48,725
Speaker 3: the new Christopher Nolan adaptation of the Odyssey looking like

1045
00:57:48,725 --> 00:57:51,725
Speaker 3: the movie going event of the summer, please forgive us

1046
00:57:51,805 --> 00:57:54,645
Speaker 3: for dipping into the Cohen well a third time with

1047
00:57:54,845 --> 00:57:57,405
Speaker 3: Oh Brother, Where Art Thou, a low brow Depression era

1048
00:57:57,525 --> 00:58:01,365
Speaker 3: comedy that's loosely based on Homer's epic poem with references

1049
00:58:01,405 --> 00:58:05,085
Speaker 3: to the Blind Sear, the Sirens, and the Cyclops. We

1050
00:58:05,125 --> 00:58:08,325
Speaker 3: cannot guarantee that we'll never do a Coen Brothers movie again,

1051
00:58:08,845 --> 00:58:11,405
Speaker 3: but we can assure you that after The Odyssey and

1052
00:58:11,485 --> 00:58:13,685
Speaker 3: O Brother Where At Thou, we will go back to

1053
00:58:13,725 --> 00:58:17,845
Speaker 3: acknowledging the fact that other filmmakers have also made classic films.

1054
00:58:18,285 --> 00:58:20,765
Speaker 4: For now, we welcome your feedback on true Grit, Supergirl,

1055
00:58:20,805 --> 00:58:22,485
Speaker 4: and anything else. So I'm related you'd like to talk

1056
00:58:22,525 --> 00:58:25,045
Speaker 4: about email us at comments at next pictureshow dot net,

1057
00:58:25,165 --> 00:58:27,045
Speaker 4: or leave us a voicemail at seven to seven three

1058
00:58:27,245 --> 00:58:29,765
Speaker 4: two three four nine seven three zero before we close

1059
00:58:29,765 --> 00:58:33,445
Speaker 4: out this week's podcast work. We find everyone these days, Tasha.

1060
00:58:33,205 --> 00:58:35,725
Speaker 6: You'll find me in a hailstorm right now if you

1061
00:58:35,765 --> 00:58:38,245
Speaker 6: can hear the noise in the background if the mic

1062
00:58:38,325 --> 00:58:40,565
Speaker 6: is picking it up. I am still on Blue Sky

1063
00:58:40,685 --> 00:58:43,645
Speaker 6: at Tasha Robinson. I am still generally at loose ends.

1064
00:58:43,685 --> 00:58:49,525
Speaker 6: I'm over at Vulture recapping dropouts flagship game show Game Changer,

1065
00:58:49,645 --> 00:58:53,365
Speaker 6: and enjoying that a lot. I reviewed Supergirl for polyon

1066
00:58:53,405 --> 00:58:55,765
Speaker 6: dot com, But for the most part, I'm kind of

1067
00:58:55,805 --> 00:58:59,605
Speaker 6: taking a little break from culture writing. I'm pretty burned out.

1068
00:58:59,885 --> 00:59:03,485
Speaker 6: So yeah, you know, just maybe I don't have to

1069
00:59:03,485 --> 00:59:07,045
Speaker 6: have an opinion about everything all of the time. It's

1070
00:59:07,085 --> 00:59:08,525
Speaker 6: it's it's kind of a release, sir.

1071
00:59:08,805 --> 00:59:09,445
Speaker 5: I don't like that.

1072
00:59:09,605 --> 00:59:14,525
Speaker 6: What well, I'll find things to argue with you about Scott,

1073
00:59:14,685 --> 00:59:15,365
Speaker 6: don't you.

1074
00:59:15,485 --> 00:59:15,805
Speaker 5: Guys.

1075
00:59:15,845 --> 00:59:21,005
Speaker 4: We just each hit up Tasha independently for opinion on everything.

1076
00:59:21,165 --> 00:59:22,765
Speaker 5: Tasha, what do you think about this?

1077
00:59:24,205 --> 00:59:26,965
Speaker 6: Dang it. I thought, I thought that I had gotten out,

1078
00:59:27,005 --> 00:59:30,965
Speaker 6: and then they pulled me back in for one last opinion. Scott,

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00:59:31,165 --> 00:59:34,125
Speaker 6: where can we find you writing about things that I

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00:59:34,165 --> 00:59:35,165
Speaker 6: can disagree with you about?

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00:59:36,005 --> 00:59:39,645
Speaker 3: Well? Mostly had the Reveal the newsletter write for Keith.

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00:59:39,645 --> 00:59:43,245
Speaker 3: That's the Reveal dot Film. And you can also find

1083
00:59:43,285 --> 00:59:46,805
Speaker 3: my work at The New York Times, Vulture, Guardian, and

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00:59:46,845 --> 00:59:50,445
Speaker 3: other fine publications. You can also find me on Blue

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00:59:50,445 --> 00:59:53,405
Speaker 3: Sky at Scott Tobias, Keith Phipps.

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00:59:53,685 --> 00:59:55,245
Speaker 5: Well, I am a freelance writer.

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00:59:55,325 --> 00:59:56,885
Speaker 4: You can find me on Blue Sky at KFIPS three

1088
00:59:56,925 --> 01:00:00,765
Speaker 4: thousand and other various social media there. I occasionally write

1089
01:00:00,805 --> 01:00:05,285
Speaker 4: for places like TV Guide and Vulture but right now,

1090
01:00:06,125 --> 01:00:09,565
Speaker 4: but mostly you can find me at the Reveal dot Film,

1091
01:00:09,925 --> 01:00:14,685
Speaker 4: where I write about movies with my pal Scott Tobias.

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01:00:15,605 --> 01:00:18,925
Speaker 4: So yeah, that's the Reveal dot dot film. And our

1093
01:00:18,965 --> 01:00:24,205
Speaker 4: regular co host, Ajaukowski is the TV editor at Vulture,

1094
01:00:24,445 --> 01:00:29,365
Speaker 4: and she is on social media in theory at genevie

1095
01:00:29,405 --> 01:00:33,365
Speaker 4: Kowsky on Blue Sky and but not mostly just kind

1096
01:00:33,365 --> 01:00:33,845
Speaker 4: of lurking.

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01:00:34,085 --> 01:00:36,085
Speaker 5: We're still worried about her whole Christmas place.

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01:00:36,525 --> 01:00:40,325
Speaker 3: Some good stuff about her gardens, usually parts of Instagram,

1099
01:00:40,485 --> 01:00:42,845
Speaker 3: like you get that's in dog stuff.

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01:00:43,285 --> 01:00:45,925
Speaker 4: Gardens and dogs two great things you can say up

1101
01:00:45,925 --> 01:00:47,925
Speaker 4: there on Next Picture Show, at Next Picture Show dot

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01:00:48,005 --> 01:00:50,325
Speaker 4: net and on blue Sky at the Next Picture Show.

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01:00:50,365 --> 01:00:52,925
Speaker 4: You can get bonus content and open discussion at Patreon

1104
01:00:53,285 --> 01:00:55,765
Speaker 4: dot com slash Next Picture Show and as always, really

1105
01:00:55,765 --> 01:00:59,485
Speaker 4: appreciate your rating and reviews on Apple Podcasts or Spotify

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01:00:59,765 --> 01:01:02,245
Speaker 4: or wherever you listen to the show. Thanks to Dan

1107
01:01:02,285 --> 01:01:04,405
Speaker 4: That Makes Jakes for the assistant producing this podcast, The

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01:01:04,445 --> 01:01:05,885
Speaker 4: Next Picture Show is proud to be part of the

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01:01:05,885 --> 01:01:07,445
Speaker 4: Film Spotting family of podcasts.

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Speaker 5: Please tune in next time.

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01:01:21,285 --> 01:01:22,005
Speaker 6: It was a good movie.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, seen here before once