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Speaker 1: I am all in.

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Speaker 2: I am all in with Scott Patterson, an iHeartRadio podcast.

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Speaker 1: Hey everybody, Scott Patterson, I am all in Podcasts. We

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Speaker 1: have a very very very special guest. Norman Mailer's son Steven,

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Speaker 1: played the interviewer A Norman Baylor for one episode in

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Speaker 1: two thousand and four, and that was Norman Mailer I'm Pregnant,

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Speaker 1: Season five, episode six. Even is a stage actor and

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Speaker 1: a screen actor. His credits include appearances in films like

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Speaker 1: Cry Baby, Baby, Mama and Another Woman, in the television

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Speaker 1: shows Gilmore Girls, Law and Order, Special Victims Unit, and

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Speaker 1: A League of their Own. And he is the son

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Speaker 1: to a very extraordinary uh and iconic literary figure in

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Speaker 1: the history of American letters, the one and only Norman Mailer.

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Speaker 1: And here is his son, Stephen Mayler. Hello, Stephen, thank

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Speaker 1: you for joining us. Do you remember, Stephen, how it

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Speaker 1: came to be that your father agreed to be on

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Speaker 1: this show?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, very well. A dear friend of mine, Jessica Queller,

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Speaker 3: was a writer on the show, and they just wrote

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Speaker 3: an episode. I believe that where you know, the character

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Speaker 3: of Norman Mailer was in the in the restaurant owned

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Speaker 3: by Lauren Graham and that most McCarthy was the was

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Speaker 3: the chef, I believe. And and so she called me

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Speaker 3: and said, hey, your dad is a character in an episode.

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Speaker 3: Do you you know, would he be interested in doing it?

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Speaker 3: So I asked him, and he said, well, I'll do

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Speaker 3: it if if, if they put you in it too.

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Speaker 3: And so that's how it all began. I'm an actor, and.

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Speaker 1: So it didn't take that much convention, not at all.

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Speaker 3: It was great. He was he was all in.

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Speaker 1: Because I you know, he's known to have hated television.

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Speaker 1: Is that true?

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Speaker 3: You know, I guess he. I guess he was opposed

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Speaker 3: to what television could kind of do to the mind,

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Speaker 3: can kind of dull the mind, and you know, like

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Speaker 3: any I mean, television is very addictive. I think it

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Speaker 3: was more of the the not necessarily the content, but

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Speaker 3: the action of just losing oneself television. And I don't

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Speaker 3: know what you would think now in the age of streaming.

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Speaker 3: Oh yes, but he watched, you know, he like near

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Speaker 3: the end of his life, he loved to watch a

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Speaker 3: live poker and he watched love watching football. Baseball not

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Speaker 3: so much. After the Dodgers left Brooklyn, he denounced baseball. Yeah,

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Speaker 3: but I think that's bad. Little basketball and you know,

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Speaker 3: political debates things like that.

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Speaker 1: Right, right, So what do you remember about being on set?

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Speaker 3: I I had the best time. I you know, it

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Speaker 3: was wonderful to be there with Jess and I'm glad

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Speaker 3: that it worked out, you know, for her as well.

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Speaker 3: And and it was lovely. It was you know, it

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Speaker 3: was a wonderful week that I was with my dad

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Speaker 3: and and everyone was was terrific. We had I remember

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Speaker 3: having dinner with the producers I think Amy and Dan. Yeah,

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Speaker 3: and so that was really fun and and the cast

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Speaker 3: and crew was fantastic. And I remember Meliss McCarthy going

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Speaker 3: up to me and saying, see, are you an actor?

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Speaker 3: I was like yeah. He was like, oh god, because

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Speaker 3: you're making it look too easy. Anybody can do this right,

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Speaker 3: right right?

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Speaker 1: Well, so so what what what do you remember about

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Speaker 1: your interactions with the two of those monolists of acting,

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Speaker 1: Melissa and Lauren.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, they were delightful. They were just really charming and

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Speaker 3: sweet and supportive and very respectful of my father. And

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Speaker 3: I remember the director of the episode. You know, I

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Speaker 3: loved my dad's work, and so it was it, Yeah,

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Speaker 3: it was it was just a lovely experience all around.

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Speaker 1: You know, you're so inside baseball because you're his son,

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Speaker 1: you know, you know, and my my father was one

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Speaker 1: of those guys who, after World War Two on the

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Speaker 1: gi bill, uh you know, graduating from one of the ivys,

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Speaker 1: wanted to write the great American novel. And he was

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Speaker 1: inspired by The Naked and the Dead and those legions

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Speaker 1: of men and women that attempted to do this. And

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Speaker 1: how large a figure, how large and how iconic a

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Speaker 1: figure your dad was, even at that time when I

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Speaker 1: was a very small child, because I know the name

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Speaker 1: it in The Dead hit like you know, it hit

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Speaker 1: like a bomb. It was just it was just this

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Speaker 1: amazing experience. Was wasn't it the first uh uh, real

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Speaker 1: war novel, modern war novel that had that kind of

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Speaker 1: an impact.

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Speaker 3: I believe, So, I know, the Naked and It Didn't particularly

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Speaker 3: just really touched that whole generation. That's the other it's

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Speaker 3: kind of similar to The Naked and the Dead. I

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Speaker 3: think Terrence Malick made a film of it.

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Speaker 1: So that was the thin Red Line made.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, And there are elements of it in Platoon as well.

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Speaker 1: I mean, I think Oliver State is very, very influenced

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Speaker 1: by the Naked and the Dead.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I remember my dad talked about like.

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Speaker 1: But I mean, just such such a thrill to know

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Speaker 1: that Norman Mahler was coming to our show to be

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Speaker 1: in a scene was just it was it was hard

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Speaker 1: to wrap your mind around it, but it happened, and

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Speaker 1: there he was in the diner and it was just

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Speaker 1: it was an amazing day.

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Speaker 3: That was the last scene of the episode, right where

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Speaker 3: were like, the guys are in here, they're not ordering anything.

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Speaker 1: Right exactly exactly. Lunch was canceled, So I'm canceling you

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Speaker 1: was that was a great monologue from from USA, taking

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Speaker 1: your lemons away. Oh look, I'm gonna read your book

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Speaker 1: for free. I'm not even gonna pay for it. Just

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Speaker 1: like so Norman, he had a lot of lines to remember.

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Speaker 1: Did he did he rehearse with you? Did he have

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Speaker 1: him down pretty pound or?

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Speaker 3: I think I think for the most part, he and

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Speaker 3: I were just kind of improvising. I played a somebody

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Speaker 3: who was interviewing him for a magazine piece or newspaper piece,

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Speaker 3: and we you know, I asked a lot of political questions,

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Speaker 3: so that part was improvised. He did have some lines,

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Speaker 3: my dad, you know, it was a bit of a

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Speaker 3: ham as an actor. You know, he made those three

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Speaker 3: experimental films at the end of the sixties, and I

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Speaker 3: love them because they're all these old buddies and they

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Speaker 3: were like my aunts and uncles, and they're like home

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Speaker 3: movies to me. But they're they're kind of ridiculous. And

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Speaker 3: and so, you know, I think I think it was

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Speaker 3: the improv was came out, you know, far more organically

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Speaker 3: than a lot of those lines. And and but as

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Speaker 3: far as I'm remembering, I you know, I don't, I

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Speaker 3: don't think it was a lot to memory. I think

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Speaker 3: it was, you know, a couple of a couple of

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Speaker 3: words here, a couple of words there. But I knew

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Speaker 3: he was he really wanted to do a great job

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Speaker 3: and he was trying, you know, giving it is all.

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Speaker 1: And how how old were you? How old were you

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Speaker 1: back then?

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Speaker 3: I was thirty was in two thousand and four, I

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Speaker 3: was thirty eight.

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Speaker 1: You were thirty eight years old? Okay? And he passed

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Speaker 1: just in two thousand and seven.

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Speaker 3: Right seven, Yeah, he was eighty one.

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Speaker 1: And so are fans recognizing you for this role? Gilmore?

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Speaker 1: Fans that they come up to you.

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Speaker 3: My niece was a huge Gilmore Girls fan. She was,

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Speaker 3: you know, in high school at the time when it

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Speaker 3: came out. It was just like crazy to watch her

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Speaker 3: long friends and she and her my sister Danielle kind

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Speaker 3: of you know, thought of themselves as the Gilmore Girls,

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Speaker 3: well because daniel looked very young, and so they just

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Speaker 3: sort of you know, so the show really spoke to

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Speaker 3: them in that way, right.

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Speaker 1: Right, you know, I really want to get into what

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Speaker 1: a terrific debater he was, what a terrific personality he was,

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Speaker 1: what a towering intellect he was, and how he came

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Speaker 1: on the Dick Caviot Show. For people who don't know

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Speaker 1: who Dick, the Dick Cabot was, Dick Cabot had a

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Speaker 1: talk show, a very popular daytime talk show, and he

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Speaker 1: would have all of the leading figures of the day.

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Speaker 1: I mean, when did Dick Cabot show. It was a

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Speaker 1: seventies show. It wasn't eighties or a sixties and seventies, right, okay,

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Speaker 1: all right, so you know it was a different time

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Speaker 1: back then. It was it was politicians, it was it

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Speaker 1: was artists, it was individuals. When people really you know,

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Speaker 1: were imbued with individuality and a lot of a lot

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Speaker 1: of authors came on a lot of writers. And you know,

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Speaker 1: to watch that, uh, that tet tet between your father

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Speaker 1: and Gourvidale, because Gorvidale had been very critical of your father.

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Speaker 1: He was very critical of Naked and the Deady. He said,

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Speaker 1: it's just a John dos Passos rip off, and you know,

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Speaker 1: just trying to label your father as a male chauveness

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Speaker 1: pig because your father dared to make these arguments and

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Speaker 1: analyze the women's movement at the time and wrote a

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Speaker 1: very thoughtful piece about it. Because he was he was

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Speaker 1: also known, as you know, quite a bright light in

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Speaker 1: the field of journalism because he combined the sensibility and

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Speaker 1: the subjectivity and the artistry and the complexity of a

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Speaker 1: novelist with you know, the subjective discipline that is journalism.

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Speaker 1: So what do you remember about those battles with gord Vidal?

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Speaker 1: And I know they were friends, but then when Gore started,

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Speaker 1: you know, painting him with this sort of brush that

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Speaker 1: he was this sort of thick headed, egotistical male chauvinist

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Speaker 1: who was obsessed with murder and you know, violence and

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Speaker 1: this kind of thing. What do you remember about those times?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean I think it was unfortunate because they

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Speaker 3: were really good friends, and then they had a falling out.

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Speaker 3: And I think my dad's whole shtick and even on

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Speaker 3: that is that he's you know, he was really politically incorrect.

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Speaker 3: So he liked to say things to sort of get

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Speaker 3: you know, a conversation started, you know what I'm saying,

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Speaker 3: And so with Gore, I don't, you know, I can't

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Speaker 3: really speak to you know, how that relationship necessarily went

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Speaker 3: south in terms of you know, I think it was just,

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Speaker 3: you know, it was a couple of really powerful egos clashing.

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Speaker 3: Then they did have a physical altercation at a cocktail party. Yeah,

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Speaker 3: and that that was in the in the seventies, I believe,

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Speaker 3: because they didn't talk for a long time and they

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Speaker 3: saw each other and uh, I mean my history, I

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Speaker 3: don't want to my history might not be that accurate,

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Speaker 3: but I know, yeah, there was it was a little

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Speaker 3: something and uh, and then they didn't speak for years

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Speaker 3: after that. But then they ended up doing a reading

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Speaker 3: of Don Juan and Hell in a Cape cod in

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Speaker 3: a province sound or Truro, Massachusetts, and so they you know,

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Speaker 3: they made amends and so that was lovely that they

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Speaker 3: were able to come back together because they both had

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Speaker 3: great minds. And and even those shows are you know,

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Speaker 3: are really fast. I remember I saw the other night

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Speaker 3: my dad on the William F. Buckley Junior Show. That

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Speaker 3: was really intense, you know, And and uh, man, I

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Speaker 3: was just sort of he was a wild figure in

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Speaker 3: those days. And and uh, you know, and he was

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Speaker 3: drinking a lot, and you know, and I don't think

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Speaker 3: he was really doing drugs anymore and be a little pot,

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Speaker 3: but you know, he was. He was out there like

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Speaker 3: a lot of people were in the sixties. It was

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Speaker 3: a wild time. And he did have just such an

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Speaker 3: extraordinary political mind. Yes, I love to sit at the

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Speaker 3: dinner table listening to him. And he predicted everything that's happening,

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Speaker 3: you know, in America right now in terms of democracy.

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Speaker 3: And and my youngest brother John and a gentleman named j.

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Speaker 3: Michael Lennon, who's the authorized biographer of my dad and

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Speaker 3: came out with a book called A Double Life. Several

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Speaker 3: years ago. John and Mike put together a compilation of

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Speaker 3: a lot of my dad's political writings. Yeah, it's called

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Speaker 3: a Mysterious Country, the uh, the Grace and Fragility of

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Speaker 3: American Democracy. And this just came out, and Uh, I've

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Speaker 3: been reading and it's just very profound. And there's excerpt

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Speaker 3: from The Naked and the Dead when the General is

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Speaker 3: going on sort of is really talking about fascism with

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Speaker 3: with intrigue and and uh, you know, and positivity and

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Speaker 3: and making trying to make it sound very good. But

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Speaker 3: then there's this you know, intellectual lieutenant or captain who

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Speaker 3: you know, thinks he's full of sort of challenging him subtly,

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Speaker 3: but the General really loves that he's challenging him. That's

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Speaker 3: why he befriends him so they can have these discussions.

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Speaker 3: And there's a really cool like the sixth Tenets of

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Speaker 3: Democracy that that John and might kind of derived from

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Speaker 3: a lot of my dad's theories.

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Speaker 1: And real quick, which administrations did your father consider to

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Speaker 1: be totalitarian? Because he wrote about that?

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Speaker 3: Was it?

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Speaker 1: Nixon?

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Speaker 3: Yeah? I mean, I mean everyone, you know, I think Reagan? Right, Bush?

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Speaker 3: I mean, he loved Obama. He passed before Obama was elected,

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Speaker 3: but he was you know, saw the beginning of the

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Speaker 3: campaign and just just thought he was amazing. I'm sure

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Speaker 3: he would have been Sociality passed. Let's not see that happen.

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Speaker 3: A great moment in this country.

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Speaker 1: Right the year before Obama was elected right, Yeah, exactly, Yeah, I.

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Speaker 3: Have an air on my phone. I want to read

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Speaker 3: because it's really u it's just great. So one, exercise

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Speaker 3: free speech and encourage civic involvement. Involvement to build left

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Speaker 3: right bridges and dialogue. Three, be wary of corporate power

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Speaker 3: and create equity between worker rewards and corporate corporate profits.

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Speaker 3: For men the wounds of slavery, and eliminate all forms

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Speaker 3: of discrimination. Five distrust flag waving patriots. Six never forget

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Speaker 3: the past. Just that little piece just in terms of

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Speaker 3: you know, as I said, what's happening now? I I

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Speaker 3: love that it's very succinct and beautiful and hopeful, and

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Speaker 3: I think full of love and understanding, and you know,

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Speaker 3: because he really cared, He really loved. He loved this country.

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Speaker 3: He loved you know, democracy, and and loved the art

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Speaker 3: that came out of this country, loved jazz.

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Speaker 1: He ran for mayor, didn't he mayor of New York City?

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Speaker 3: For mayor in nineteen sixty nine?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, how'd that go?

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Speaker 3: But I don't remember. I think he debated William F. Buck.

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Speaker 3: I think he was the no. He was a Republican.

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Speaker 3: I'm pretty sure he.

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Speaker 1: Was at that time, I think, yeah, yeah, yeah, he

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Speaker 1: did not like liberals.

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Speaker 3: Yeah back in the day. Yeah yeah, But I don't know.

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Speaker 3: I don't think he became the mayor though Buckley I could,

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Speaker 3: but having a debate, right, and that talk show was

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Speaker 3: right before I think they ended up. They had that debate.

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Speaker 3: But I mean, he wanted to in New York City

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Speaker 3: into the fifty first state. That was his platform. Yeah,

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Speaker 3: really yeah. But there's some cips of him, you know,

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Speaker 3: you know, going around the city and and talking to

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Speaker 3: the crowds and yeah, and there was a joke. I

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Speaker 3: think he was with Warren Baby and Warren I remember

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Speaker 3: there was some talk back the name of Warren Baby

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Speaker 3: maybe running for president and in my and he called

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Speaker 3: my dad to to discuss some some policies or something.

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Speaker 3: I forget what they want to discuss, but he's like,

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Speaker 3: all right, but I'm going to make a deal with you.

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Speaker 3: And Baby said what He's like, I get I get

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Speaker 3: to be the VP. Baby said, all right, you'll be

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Speaker 3: the VP. And my or my dad wanted something else,

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Speaker 3: but I can't remember. You wanted to be member of

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Speaker 3: the cabinet. Mhm.

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Speaker 1: So Norman does Gilmore girls, you guys fly back. I

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Speaker 1: guess he lived in New York. I'm assuming he lived

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Speaker 1: in Brooklyn.

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Speaker 3: Ye. At that time, he was living in Provincetown, Massachusetts,

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Speaker 3: robinst Okay, Yeah, he and my stepmother, Norris, moved there

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Speaker 3: after my brother John went to college, right, and that

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Speaker 3: nineteen ninety six, twenty years of his life. So it

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Speaker 3: was a big deal. And is you know, he didn't

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Speaker 3: move very well. You know, I met him in Horton, Boston,

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Speaker 3: and and you know, he had to have a wheelchair

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Speaker 3: through the thing, so he was really you know, he

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Speaker 3: was doing a great favorite for me. I had just

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Speaker 3: split from my ex wife and we had two small boys,

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Speaker 3: five and one. So I just moved into my own

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Speaker 3: apartment in Brooklyn and money was a little tight. So

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Speaker 3: this is just just help to get this this gig,

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Speaker 3: and and so that was part of it. It was

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Speaker 3: lovely just to spend time with him and he you know,

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Speaker 3: my stepmother was his six wife and he had nine children,

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Speaker 3: so so he really knew how to commiserate with me.

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Speaker 3: It was a really cool journey and and uh yeah,

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Speaker 3: and we and I loved just helping him and being

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Speaker 3: a part of that. And I remember the loveliest thing

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Speaker 3: that happened there though, was I think there was a

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Speaker 3: break in shooting and he was sitting outside and a

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Speaker 3: lot of the young writers gathered around him, and they

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Speaker 3: had a little sort of forum, you know, and and

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Speaker 3: and he just loved loved holding court, and he just

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Speaker 3: loved loved the art of writing, and and so and

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Speaker 3: Jessica had told her, I never I didn't see this.

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Speaker 3: I don't know where I was, but but jess said

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Speaker 3: that happened, and and and I and that he, you know,

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Speaker 3: was just so giving and and and and open, and

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Speaker 3: that the writers have just loved it.

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Speaker 1: How did he So he goes to Harvard, He graduates

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Speaker 1: with a with a degree in aeronautical engineeering. Yes, if

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Speaker 1: I am not mistaken, Yeah, okay, So one thing leads

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Speaker 1: to another. How does that? Where's that bridge from aeronautical

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Speaker 1: engineering to journalism.

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Speaker 3: Well, he had written a story when he was eight

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Speaker 3: years old and the teacher called my grandmother in and said,

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Speaker 3: you obviously wrote this for him. This is this is

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Speaker 3: a big no no. And my my grandmother was incensed, like,

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Speaker 3: I would never do something thing. You know, my boy

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Speaker 3: is a genius. And so I think that was the

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Speaker 3: first little like, oh you know, he's got some talent here.

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Speaker 3: And then he won a major short story writing contest

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Speaker 3: when he was at Harvard and was on the road

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Speaker 3: to the lampoon.

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Speaker 1: Oh he did, he was, he was one of he was.

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Speaker 3: Okay, yeah, so I think the writing was always there,

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Speaker 3: and then.

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Speaker 1: For for for people listening in if you don't know

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Speaker 1: what the Harvard Lampoon is or what I'm assuming it's

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Speaker 1: still still standing. A lot of the writers from the

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Speaker 1: Harvard Lampoon end up in Hollywood writing films and major

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Speaker 1: TV shows, And there's a real lineage from from Harvard

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Speaker 1: to to Hollywood. So yeah, so so was he ever

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Speaker 1: tempted to follow in the footsteps of so many before

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Speaker 1: him to come to Hollywood and start writing for film

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Speaker 1: and TV.

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Speaker 3: When The Naked and the Dead came out, you know,

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Speaker 3: he became instantly famous. And you know, at that time,

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Speaker 3: when you had the number one best seller, it was

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Speaker 3: a very big deal, and I'm sure it's a big

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Speaker 3: deal now. But just in terms of you know, reading,

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Speaker 3: it was before television, so reading was I think more

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Speaker 3: more of the culture of the day of that day, right.

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Speaker 1: Right, The real the real rock stars of the day

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Speaker 1: were writers. The intellect the intellectuals were bigger than actors.

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Speaker 1: They were bigger than musicians. They were the thing.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, well, jazz musicians are pretty like you know, the

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Speaker 3: Miles Davis and the Charlie Parkers like those like that scene.

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Speaker 3: The writers and you know, jazz musicians. That was it.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it wasn't politicians, It wasn't musicians. It wasn't actors.

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Speaker 1: I mean, even though it was, but it was really

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Speaker 1: like the big writers that everybody. Everybody read them, everybody

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Speaker 1: discussed them.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, and Hemingway was my dad's hero, Steinbeck, you know,

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Speaker 3: all In Fitzgerald. And so he came out to Hollywood

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Speaker 3: because they you know, the film got bought, I mean,

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Speaker 3: the book got bought to be a film. And he

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Speaker 3: lived out here for about a year and was sort

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Speaker 3: of in that scening, but he didn't he really didn't

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Speaker 3: like it to me. To him, it felt like a

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Speaker 3: lazy summer day, you know, every day, and he just

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Speaker 3: couldn't really get any writing done. So it was a

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Speaker 3: brief year.

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Speaker 4: And then since you know, I mean, I think he

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Speaker 4: always when he was at college, he got cast in

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Speaker 4: Awakened sing Hm.

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Speaker 3: So he got that Barney and he learned his lines

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Speaker 3: and then I think, uh, the what did the war race?

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Speaker 3: Somedthing happened where the completed did not go on, so

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Speaker 3: he feels like that had happened. He might have been

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Speaker 3: an actor, but he always yeah, he always loved film

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Speaker 3: and and and made some like I remember some films

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Speaker 3: from like the early fifties and Brooklyn Heights, and then

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Speaker 3: ended up making these you know, sort of three kind

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Speaker 3: of seminal wild improvisational films that you know are part

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Speaker 3: of the Criterion collection. You know, again, a lot of people,

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Speaker 3: I think for friends and family, you know, it's, uh,

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Speaker 3: we we dig them, but you know, they can be

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Speaker 3: a lot leave a lot to be desired for others.

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Speaker 3: And then he ended up directing Tough Guys Don't Dance,

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Speaker 3: one of his novels, and we always you know, yeah,

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Speaker 3: so I think, you know, he I think he loved

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Speaker 3: great filmmaking, but was very impatient, if like, in terms

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Speaker 3: of like watching television with him, that was a nightmare

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Speaker 3: because he literally watched something for a minute and again

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Speaker 3: then move on. It was just like constant you know,

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Speaker 3: channel surfing, right right.

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Speaker 2: Right, So.

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Speaker 1: Tell us a little bit about the aftermath of of

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Speaker 1: when the show actually aired, was Norman approached by people,

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Speaker 1: Oh my god, you were on Gilmore Girls and they

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Speaker 1: didn't know him. They didn't really know him as Norman

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Speaker 1: mail They didn't know who Norman Mailer was or what

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Speaker 1: he'd done in his career, but they knew him from

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Speaker 1: Gilmore Girls.

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Speaker 3: Oh yeah. I think a lot of people instead of

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Speaker 3: knowing Hi from gil Murgirl Absolutely, yeah, yeah, yeah, I

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Speaker 3: can't you know, it's that that part of this I

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Speaker 3: don't remember as well. Scott. I'm so sorry. I think

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Speaker 3: he did get a lot of recognition from doing that show.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it's amazing how many people recognize, like, you know,

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Speaker 1: they'll recognize extras from the show.

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Speaker 3: Yes, yeah, yeah.

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Speaker 1: They pour over every detail of every episode. It's a

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Speaker 1: very dedicated as you well know, they're very dedicated. So

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Speaker 1: what are you working on now? What are you doing

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Speaker 1: now with your career?

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Speaker 3: I made a film. I'm a writer as well. I

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Speaker 3: had to get into a seventeen year men's group based

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Speaker 3: on the work of Carl Jung about identifying the father's

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Speaker 3: dark shadow, processing that and connecting to their golden shadow

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Speaker 3: their creativity. So I was always part to be a writer,

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Speaker 3: but I just couldn't get past the shadow part of it, right,

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Speaker 3: and seventeen years agree by finally after several years, started writing,

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Speaker 3: and I wrote a few plays and a couple of

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Speaker 3: screenplays and a pilot for a sketch comedy show. And

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Speaker 3: I ended up just producing and directing the one of

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Speaker 3: the screenplays I did. It's called Flow Group. It's really wild.

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Speaker 3: It's sort of like mel Brooks on acid. It's out there.

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Speaker 3: And and again, I love very you know, some of

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Speaker 3: my like a lot of my you know, family and friends.

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Speaker 1: That's a lot of acid. I mean, no book.

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Speaker 3: That literally like Young Frankenstein and Blazing Saddle, so you know,

433
00:25:20,520 --> 00:25:22,359
Speaker 3: and I went to when I was eight and nine.

434
00:25:23,480 --> 00:25:30,080
Speaker 3: I know, I know Young Frankenstein I think was my hero. Yeah, yeah,

435
00:25:30,160 --> 00:25:32,199
Speaker 3: so I really so I did that. And it's been

436
00:25:32,200 --> 00:25:34,080
Speaker 3: a really long process, you know. I got an LLC

437
00:25:34,160 --> 00:25:37,040
Speaker 3: in twenty sixteen and then shot it in twenty seventeen

438
00:25:37,119 --> 00:25:39,520
Speaker 3: that I've really been editing it, and I'm even editing

439
00:25:39,560 --> 00:25:41,040
Speaker 3: it right now. I'm just doing the final sort of

440
00:25:41,040 --> 00:25:44,760
Speaker 3: credit sequence and and so I'm gonna have some screenings

441
00:25:44,760 --> 00:25:47,720
Speaker 3: of that and and it was just a little wonderful process.

442
00:25:47,760 --> 00:25:52,560
Speaker 3: I just love it. And yes, that's that's that's what

443
00:25:52,600 --> 00:25:53,320
Speaker 3: I'm doing right now.

444
00:25:53,400 --> 00:26:00,679
Speaker 1: Oh, terrific. Yeah, it's interesting. I produced and financed a

445
00:26:00,720 --> 00:26:04,199
Speaker 1: film in twenty thirteen and I'm still editing it as Well'

446
00:26:04,280 --> 00:26:06,880
Speaker 1: still putting finishing touches on it. May I may never

447
00:26:06,960 --> 00:26:10,400
Speaker 1: release it, but I'm certainly going to get it right

448
00:26:10,520 --> 00:26:11,840
Speaker 1: or else I'll die trying.

449
00:26:12,640 --> 00:26:14,840
Speaker 3: I love editing. It's so much fun, and you.

450
00:26:14,760 --> 00:26:17,320
Speaker 1: Know what I do too. It's the best part of

451
00:26:17,359 --> 00:26:17,800
Speaker 1: it for me.

452
00:26:18,520 --> 00:26:21,560
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean that's really where the film is made. Yes,

453
00:26:21,600 --> 00:26:24,480
Speaker 3: it is. And it really helps to have a great editor.

454
00:26:25,359 --> 00:26:27,200
Speaker 3: We sort of like works with you and it's really

455
00:26:27,200 --> 00:26:28,280
Speaker 3: positive and supportive.

456
00:26:28,440 --> 00:26:32,159
Speaker 1: I've had two and they were both well, yeah, and

457
00:26:32,200 --> 00:26:37,560
Speaker 1: they were both wonderful, and we are really shaping this film. Yeah,

458
00:26:38,440 --> 00:26:40,240
Speaker 1: you know, it's too bad we don't have a cooperative

459
00:26:40,280 --> 00:26:44,160
Speaker 1: director or lead actress. But you know, that's why it's

460
00:26:44,200 --> 00:26:48,040
Speaker 1: taking so long. But you know, people's feelings get hurt

461
00:26:48,080 --> 00:26:50,720
Speaker 1: and their vision get they feel their vision get crushed,

462
00:26:50,720 --> 00:26:53,240
Speaker 1: and it's like, you know, yeah, it's like you know,

463
00:26:53,320 --> 00:26:57,000
Speaker 1: people are either going to watch your film and then

464
00:26:57,000 --> 00:26:59,159
Speaker 1: they're going to go watch paint dry, and they're going

465
00:26:59,200 --> 00:27:01,159
Speaker 1: to have a better time watching the paint try, so

466
00:27:01,200 --> 00:27:08,080
Speaker 1: we've got to save this film somehow. Anyway, what else

467
00:27:08,119 --> 00:27:10,280
Speaker 1: can you tell us about the experience that we haven't

468
00:27:10,320 --> 00:27:16,879
Speaker 1: gone through. Did he enjoy it? Did he really enjoy it?

469
00:27:17,160 --> 00:27:18,399
Speaker 3: Yeah? He did, absolutely.

470
00:27:18,560 --> 00:27:18,760
Speaker 1: Yeah.

471
00:27:18,760 --> 00:27:22,160
Speaker 3: And he had a great friend out here, a guy

472
00:27:22,240 --> 00:27:26,960
Speaker 3: named Mickey Knox, and another friend, Larry Schiller, and we

473
00:27:27,000 --> 00:27:28,840
Speaker 3: all went out to dinner. I think Larry sort of,

474
00:27:29,440 --> 00:27:31,080
Speaker 3: you know, told him how to do the deal, because

475
00:27:31,119 --> 00:27:34,360
Speaker 3: Larry's a producer and writer and photographer and took those

476
00:27:34,359 --> 00:27:38,600
Speaker 3: famous photographs of Marilynroe in the pool years ago. It

477
00:27:38,680 --> 00:27:40,080
Speaker 3: was a real Hollywood you know.

478
00:27:41,040 --> 00:27:45,080
Speaker 1: Tell us about this. What was his relationship with Marilyn Monroe,

479
00:27:45,080 --> 00:27:46,600
Speaker 1: because I know he wrote a book about her.

480
00:27:46,920 --> 00:27:50,199
Speaker 3: Yeah, he just he never met her. He sat behind

481
00:27:50,200 --> 00:27:52,840
Speaker 3: her once at a like a movie premiere or a

482
00:27:52,840 --> 00:27:55,640
Speaker 3: play and I think she was married to Arthur Miller

483
00:27:55,640 --> 00:27:58,280
Speaker 3: at the time, and he almost tapped her on the shoulder,

484
00:27:58,600 --> 00:28:01,240
Speaker 3: but it didn't happen. That it happened that you know,

485
00:28:01,320 --> 00:28:07,199
Speaker 3: who knows, I could be Marilyn Monroe son. But I

486
00:28:07,200 --> 00:28:09,840
Speaker 3: think he just really he really loved He would just

487
00:28:10,080 --> 00:28:15,320
Speaker 3: you know, was really infatuated with her. And as a kid,

488
00:28:15,359 --> 00:28:18,000
Speaker 3: we got to you know. I remember just he would

489
00:28:18,000 --> 00:28:20,040
Speaker 3: get all the copies of the film. We'd watched them

490
00:28:20,080 --> 00:28:22,800
Speaker 3: in the living room, and and I didn't realize that

491
00:28:23,000 --> 00:28:26,240
Speaker 3: he's like what an extraordinary you know actress. She she is,

492
00:28:27,200 --> 00:28:29,919
Speaker 3: you know what I mean, Like he just played this

493
00:28:29,960 --> 00:28:31,119
Speaker 3: ditsy the doun block.

494
00:28:31,680 --> 00:28:33,560
Speaker 1: She was brilliant as.

495
00:28:35,040 --> 00:28:38,120
Speaker 3: The greatest ever And so I think he really he

496
00:28:38,240 --> 00:28:40,920
Speaker 3: really celebrates that in the book. And there's a lot

497
00:28:40,920 --> 00:28:44,480
Speaker 3: of beautiful photos and and Larry actually made deals with

498
00:28:46,680 --> 00:28:51,080
Speaker 3: Tash in this great German Yeah, and so Maryland came

499
00:28:51,120 --> 00:28:54,840
Speaker 3: out Maryland and and the fight before that, and there's

500
00:28:55,200 --> 00:29:01,920
Speaker 3: beautiful photos and yeah, Larry, Larry was great because Larry

501
00:29:01,920 --> 00:29:05,880
Speaker 3: actually brought the Gary Gilmour. He brought the rights to

502
00:29:05,960 --> 00:29:07,760
Speaker 3: that and came to my father, and I believe that's

503
00:29:07,760 --> 00:29:11,960
Speaker 3: how they first met. I want you to well, actually, no,

504
00:29:12,000 --> 00:29:13,960
Speaker 3: I guess he must have known him from Maryland.

505
00:29:13,760 --> 00:29:16,280
Speaker 1: Because he won the pulitzer for the executioner.

506
00:29:16,440 --> 00:29:22,320
Speaker 3: So yeah, so Larry brought that to my father and

507
00:29:22,360 --> 00:29:25,400
Speaker 3: that that and an American dream also on the pulitzer,

508
00:29:25,920 --> 00:29:28,440
Speaker 3: you know, or I think considered his you.

509
00:29:28,400 --> 00:29:31,240
Speaker 1: Know, and not Naked in the dead was the pulitzer

510
00:29:31,320 --> 00:29:32,600
Speaker 1: around back then he.

511
00:29:32,680 --> 00:29:36,440
Speaker 3: Didn't n The Dead win the Pulitzer Everyone Book of

512
00:29:36,480 --> 00:29:38,400
Speaker 3: the Year award, Like I think it won a lot

513
00:29:38,400 --> 00:29:41,800
Speaker 3: of awards, right right, My dad years and sort of

514
00:29:41,800 --> 00:29:43,360
Speaker 3: he would read through and he's like, oh my god,

515
00:29:43,400 --> 00:29:45,440
Speaker 3: I was such a young writer. I made so many mistakes.

516
00:29:45,720 --> 00:29:50,400
Speaker 3: Talking about editing the film. Sure he might have been like,

517
00:29:50,800 --> 00:29:56,320
Speaker 3: be written some of it. I could see him doing that.

518
00:30:01,320 --> 00:30:03,280
Speaker 1: So we're gonna play a little game called rapid Fire.

519
00:30:03,320 --> 00:30:06,920
Speaker 1: You ready, You're ready? Okay, here we go. How do

520
00:30:06,960 --> 00:30:07,920
Speaker 1: you like your coffee?

521
00:30:08,640 --> 00:30:12,080
Speaker 3: I drink a French Press in the morning. I don't

522
00:30:12,080 --> 00:30:16,000
Speaker 3: know what the basic side, one of the traditional size,

523
00:30:16,760 --> 00:30:19,040
Speaker 3: and I do that every morning, so it's probably about

524
00:30:20,400 --> 00:30:21,680
Speaker 3: two very large cups.

525
00:30:21,760 --> 00:30:28,120
Speaker 1: Okay, uh, it's called rapid fire. Rapid fire.

526
00:30:31,120 --> 00:30:32,360
Speaker 3: It's a tangent.

527
00:30:34,200 --> 00:30:36,840
Speaker 1: You team Logan, Team Jess from.

528
00:30:39,080 --> 00:30:40,640
Speaker 3: You're not going to get a quick answer.

529
00:30:40,400 --> 00:30:44,400
Speaker 1: From all right, So we'll rename the we'll rename this.

530
00:30:44,840 --> 00:30:47,640
Speaker 1: Are you Team Logan, Team Jess or Team Dean? If

531
00:30:47,720 --> 00:30:49,600
Speaker 1: you have any idea what that means?

532
00:30:50,480 --> 00:30:54,080
Speaker 3: I don't. Oh, is that is that one of the girls?

533
00:30:54,320 --> 00:30:58,200
Speaker 1: Yes? Yes, okay, so I guess.

534
00:30:58,000 --> 00:30:59,880
Speaker 3: That would be who is the Melissa McCarthy character.

535
00:31:00,680 --> 00:31:05,560
Speaker 1: Uh? So your team Suki? Okay, your team Suki. So

536
00:31:05,720 --> 00:31:09,560
Speaker 1: you think Suki is better suited for Rory as an

537
00:31:09,560 --> 00:31:13,360
Speaker 1: intimate Okay? Great? Uh you're on record now, there's no

538
00:31:13,440 --> 00:31:18,560
Speaker 1: taking it back. I understand we all do. Who is

539
00:31:18,560 --> 00:31:21,720
Speaker 1: your favorite Gilmour Girls couple, Luke and Laurele I or

540
00:31:21,840 --> 00:31:23,080
Speaker 1: Richard and Emily?

541
00:31:24,400 --> 00:31:25,520
Speaker 3: Were you Luke?

542
00:31:25,920 --> 00:31:26,280
Speaker 1: I was?

543
00:31:26,880 --> 00:31:30,080
Speaker 3: Yeah, Luke and Laurel I right?

544
00:31:30,600 --> 00:31:32,720
Speaker 1: I think I still am Luke the last time I checked.

545
00:31:32,720 --> 00:31:35,320
Speaker 1: But I shouldn't refer to as in the past tense,

546
00:31:35,360 --> 00:31:38,160
Speaker 1: but maybe that was the case. What would you order

547
00:31:38,240 --> 00:31:39,120
Speaker 1: at Luke's diner?

548
00:31:40,200 --> 00:31:44,280
Speaker 3: Oh, my gosh, rapid Fire, rapid.

549
00:31:43,960 --> 00:31:51,640
Speaker 1: Fire, Jackson or Taylor for the town selectmen?

550
00:31:53,200 --> 00:31:54,680
Speaker 3: Oh, I gotta refresh.

551
00:31:56,200 --> 00:31:58,440
Speaker 1: You would you would want? You would want Taylor? Just

552
00:31:58,480 --> 00:32:02,080
Speaker 1: say Taylor, Taylor, Taylor? Good good answer, good answer. Would

553
00:32:02,120 --> 00:32:05,400
Speaker 1: you rather listen to hep Alien or the Troubadour's cover

554
00:32:05,520 --> 00:32:11,280
Speaker 1: songs of Troubadour's covers? Good answer? Your nallon Harvard or Yale?

555
00:32:12,360 --> 00:32:13,400
Speaker 3: Harvard?

556
00:32:13,440 --> 00:32:18,360
Speaker 1: Of course? Uh? What's Rory's bigger mistake? Crashing the car

557
00:32:18,480 --> 00:32:22,520
Speaker 1: her boyfriend built for her or sleeping with her ex

558
00:32:22,760 --> 00:32:24,840
Speaker 1: who is married? And by the way, they happen to

559
00:32:24,880 --> 00:32:27,640
Speaker 1: be the same person. So what's the bigger mistake? The

560
00:32:27,680 --> 00:32:34,880
Speaker 1: car crash or the uh the uh? Okay, the sleeping

561
00:32:35,000 --> 00:32:40,240
Speaker 1: with the x Okay, yes you're and you're correct about that. Uh?

562
00:32:40,320 --> 00:32:43,400
Speaker 1: Who from Gilmour? Would you not want to be stuck

563
00:32:43,480 --> 00:32:44,520
Speaker 1: on a desert island?

564
00:32:45,920 --> 00:32:51,440
Speaker 3: Oh? I think all the characters were wonderful. Wasn't the

565
00:32:51,600 --> 00:32:54,360
Speaker 3: father of the lore Lies dad? Wasn't he a little Uh?

566
00:32:55,320 --> 00:32:56,920
Speaker 3: Wasn't he a little cantankerous?

567
00:32:57,040 --> 00:32:57,680
Speaker 1: Yea a little bit?

568
00:32:58,440 --> 00:32:59,400
Speaker 3: Yeah? Maybe him?

569
00:32:59,440 --> 00:33:03,640
Speaker 1: So maybe Shell, the snooty French concierge at the dragonfly In.

570
00:33:04,360 --> 00:33:09,200
Speaker 3: I guess so, yes, Michelle, I don't know. It just

571
00:33:09,200 --> 00:33:09,720
Speaker 3: came to me.

572
00:33:10,160 --> 00:33:12,040
Speaker 1: I'm about to see him, so I wanted to get

573
00:33:12,040 --> 00:33:15,760
Speaker 1: that and so I have something over. I love this game.

574
00:33:16,280 --> 00:33:21,480
Speaker 1: This is awesome. Uh something in your life? You are

575
00:33:21,680 --> 00:33:22,400
Speaker 1: all in.

576
00:33:22,600 --> 00:33:27,600
Speaker 3: On being a father and a husband.

577
00:33:27,640 --> 00:33:30,640
Speaker 1: There you go, all right, Steven, it was a pleasure,

578
00:33:31,880 --> 00:33:34,400
Speaker 1: and uh, we'd love to have you back on. I

579
00:33:34,480 --> 00:33:36,680
Speaker 1: got a million more things I want to talk with

580
00:33:36,760 --> 00:33:41,480
Speaker 1: you about. But anyway, best of luck to you and

581
00:33:42,320 --> 00:33:46,000
Speaker 1: keep on keeping on, brother. Thank you, thank you, thank

582
00:33:46,080 --> 00:33:50,120
Speaker 1: you for apologies for oh no worries, but thank you,

583
00:33:50,160 --> 00:33:54,320
Speaker 1: thank you for sharing uh these these very warm and

584
00:33:54,400 --> 00:33:55,800
Speaker 1: very intimate stories your father.

585
00:33:56,440 --> 00:33:58,320
Speaker 3: Oh, it's my pleasure and he'd be thrilled.

586
00:33:58,880 --> 00:34:24,279
Speaker 1: Thank you so much and enjoy your day, right, take care,

587
00:34:33,280 --> 00:34:36,319
Speaker 1: hey everybody, and don't forget follow us on Instagram at

588
00:34:36,640 --> 00:34:40,759
Speaker 1: I Am all In podcast and email us at Gilmore

589
00:34:40,800 --> 00:34:44,759
Speaker 1: at iHeartRadio dot com. Oh you're Gilmore friends. If you're

590
00:34:44,760 --> 00:34:46,560
Speaker 1: looking for the best cup of coffee in the world,

591
00:34:46,680 --> 00:34:50,600
Speaker 1: go to my website from my company Scottip dot com

592
00:34:50,680 --> 00:34:53,040
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593
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