1 00:00:05,880 --> 00:00:17,400 Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Imagine on Christmas Eve, eight 2 00:00:17,640 --> 00:00:22,000 Speaker 1: months pregnant, suddenly a mom to be expecting her first 3 00:00:22,079 --> 00:00:28,080 Speaker 1: child goes missing somehow, and all the hullabaloo the facts 4 00:00:28,120 --> 00:00:33,240 Speaker 1: surrounding the murder of Lacy Peterson and her unborn child, Connor, 5 00:00:33,520 --> 00:00:37,159 Speaker 1: have gotten somehow lost in the sauce. But in a 6 00:00:37,320 --> 00:00:40,960 Speaker 1: stunning development in the last hours, the case is back 7 00:00:41,120 --> 00:00:59,440 Speaker 1: on the hot seat Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Pat 8 00:00:59,480 --> 00:01:03,200 Speaker 1: Harris was involved in Peterson's initial trial and will represent 9 00:01:03,280 --> 00:01:06,280 Speaker 1: him in Stanislaus County. We are satisfied that we're going 10 00:01:06,319 --> 00:01:08,399 Speaker 1: to get our day in court. If they want to 11 00:01:08,400 --> 00:01:11,840 Speaker 1: retry it, we'll be there, and boy well we will 12 00:01:11,880 --> 00:01:14,840 Speaker 1: be there bigger and better than they've ever seen. Harris says. 13 00:01:14,880 --> 00:01:18,679 Speaker 1: The process will require a whole new jury then, because 14 00:01:18,760 --> 00:01:21,240 Speaker 1: they haven't heard the evidence, you basically have to do 15 00:01:21,280 --> 00:01:24,679 Speaker 1: the entire trial again. Also, there's the hearing leader this 16 00:01:24,720 --> 00:01:28,119 Speaker 1: month in San Mateo County Superior Court where it will 17 00:01:28,160 --> 00:01:31,840 Speaker 1: be decided Peterson's conviction should be tossed out. In August, 18 00:01:31,840 --> 00:01:34,520 Speaker 1: the California Supreme Court overturned his two thousand and five 19 00:01:34,560 --> 00:01:38,200 Speaker 1: death sentence, and then in October the same court ordered 20 00:01:38,240 --> 00:01:42,200 Speaker 1: a new hearing because of prejudicial misconduct by a juror. 21 00:01:42,240 --> 00:01:45,800 Speaker 1: That juror failed to reveal that, while pregnant, she'd sought 22 00:01:45,840 --> 00:01:49,440 Speaker 1: a restraining order against her boyfriend's ex girlfriend. You're hearing 23 00:01:49,480 --> 00:01:52,160 Speaker 1: our friends at Fox forty News. If you couldn't make 24 00:01:52,200 --> 00:01:56,360 Speaker 1: sense out of that mouthful of sentences. Here's the bombshell. 25 00:01:56,880 --> 00:02:02,360 Speaker 1: The state there's Stanislaus County has announced it is seeking 26 00:02:02,400 --> 00:02:08,400 Speaker 1: the death penalty yet again on convicted wife killer Scott Peterson. 27 00:02:08,840 --> 00:02:13,440 Speaker 1: This after a series of legal reversals for the state. 28 00:02:13,720 --> 00:02:16,160 Speaker 1: With me and all star panel to break it down 29 00:02:16,160 --> 00:02:18,840 Speaker 1: and put it back together again. First of all, Laura 30 00:02:19,120 --> 00:02:24,160 Speaker 1: Urretzian joining us from LA, member of Scott Peterson's original 31 00:02:24,520 --> 00:02:28,600 Speaker 1: defense team. New York Psychologists joining us from Manhattan. Karen 32 00:02:28,720 --> 00:02:33,079 Speaker 1: Start at Karen Start with ThEC dot Com. Bobby Chicone, 33 00:02:33,360 --> 00:02:38,880 Speaker 1: former special agent FBI, now screenwriter on Criminal Minds, Professor 34 00:02:38,919 --> 00:02:42,760 Speaker 1: Forensics Jacksonville State University, author of Blood Beneath My Feet 35 00:02:42,800 --> 00:02:46,320 Speaker 1: and star of a brand new series, Poisonous Liaisons on 36 00:02:46,320 --> 00:02:49,959 Speaker 1: the True Crime Network. Joseph Scott Morgan, but first to 37 00:02:50,080 --> 00:02:55,320 Speaker 1: Crime Online dot Com investigative reporter Alexis Terres Chuck, Alexis, 38 00:02:55,360 --> 00:02:57,880 Speaker 1: You and I were there every single day of the trial. 39 00:02:58,320 --> 00:03:00,959 Speaker 1: I was not surprised. I will have to say I 40 00:03:01,000 --> 00:03:04,400 Speaker 1: was relieved when Scott Peterson was convicted the first time. 41 00:03:04,919 --> 00:03:07,639 Speaker 1: But now it's all gone to hell in a handbag? 42 00:03:07,720 --> 00:03:14,799 Speaker 1: What happened? So Scott has been wait Waite White right there, Alexis, 43 00:03:15,040 --> 00:03:19,440 Speaker 1: what are y'all friends? Now? Are you expecting him over 44 00:03:19,520 --> 00:03:22,600 Speaker 1: for dinner one night? You're going to introduce him to 45 00:03:22,680 --> 00:03:25,560 Speaker 1: your baby boy? Why are you calling him? Buy's first name? 46 00:03:26,000 --> 00:03:27,800 Speaker 1: I didn't know You're on a first name basis was 47 00:03:27,840 --> 00:03:31,120 Speaker 1: Scott Peterson. We are not on a first name basis him. 48 00:03:31,200 --> 00:03:33,000 Speaker 1: He is good to know. He is not coming to 49 00:03:33,080 --> 00:03:36,040 Speaker 1: my house because he is still in a prison. He 50 00:03:36,120 --> 00:03:39,080 Speaker 1: is still in the San Quentin prison. The news is 51 00:03:39,400 --> 00:03:42,880 Speaker 1: but he is on death row. Still he has been convicted. 52 00:03:42,920 --> 00:03:45,240 Speaker 1: He has been found guilty by a jury of killing 53 00:03:45,320 --> 00:03:49,400 Speaker 1: his wife, Lady Peterson, and their unborn son Connor. Here's 54 00:03:49,400 --> 00:03:53,240 Speaker 1: the thing. The Supreme Court in California has ruled that 55 00:03:53,800 --> 00:03:59,680 Speaker 1: he can get a new death penalty trial. That means 56 00:04:00,080 --> 00:04:04,520 Speaker 1: that the sentence of the death penalty has been overturned. 57 00:04:04,760 --> 00:04:07,280 Speaker 1: And this was a unanimous decision. So what they're saying is, 58 00:04:07,680 --> 00:04:11,400 Speaker 1: right now, you are still convicted, you are still guilty, 59 00:04:11,760 --> 00:04:16,600 Speaker 1: but your sentencing is going to be discussed again. We're 60 00:04:16,600 --> 00:04:20,000 Speaker 1: going to have a new trial, and this has got 61 00:04:20,120 --> 00:04:25,040 Speaker 1: up for argument again. So bottom line, the Scott Peterson 62 00:04:25,160 --> 00:04:30,760 Speaker 1: case was what we call a bifurcated trial. As part one, 63 00:04:31,000 --> 00:04:33,799 Speaker 1: it's the guilt innocent's phase, where it was determined Scott 64 00:04:33,800 --> 00:04:37,159 Speaker 1: Peterson did in fact murderous wife Lacy and throw her 65 00:04:37,200 --> 00:04:41,839 Speaker 1: body and Connor the unborn baby's body into the coal 66 00:04:41,960 --> 00:04:45,480 Speaker 1: choppy waters of the San Francisco Bay where he fished 67 00:04:45,920 --> 00:04:50,200 Speaker 1: that day that she went missing. The second part of 68 00:04:50,240 --> 00:04:55,520 Speaker 1: the buy forcated trial is the penalty phase. The California 69 00:04:55,520 --> 00:04:59,720 Speaker 1: Supreme Court has ruled that the penalty itself only the 70 00:05:00,000 --> 00:05:04,680 Speaker 1: penalty is reversed and has to be retried. Now the state, 71 00:05:04,760 --> 00:05:07,360 Speaker 1: did they not, Alexis tres Check have the ride to 72 00:05:07,480 --> 00:05:09,200 Speaker 1: just say, oh, you know what, we're just going to 73 00:05:09,279 --> 00:05:12,240 Speaker 1: settle for life behind bars. He would then come home 74 00:05:12,320 --> 00:05:14,800 Speaker 1: from San Quentin, come off death row, and go to 75 00:05:14,839 --> 00:05:19,279 Speaker 1: a regular CI correctional institute. But that's not what they decided, 76 00:05:19,400 --> 00:05:21,599 Speaker 1: is it, Alexis. Nope, it is not at all what 77 00:05:21,680 --> 00:05:23,760 Speaker 1: they decided, and they did not waste any time. They 78 00:05:23,880 --> 00:05:27,520 Speaker 1: immediately announced they are going to try the death penalty 79 00:05:27,680 --> 00:05:30,279 Speaker 1: phase again and they are again going to seek the 80 00:05:30,279 --> 00:05:32,279 Speaker 1: death penalty. They're not going to try to get life 81 00:05:32,279 --> 00:05:35,400 Speaker 1: imprisoned without the possibility of girls. They are still going 82 00:05:35,600 --> 00:05:38,279 Speaker 1: to ask a new jury that will be set up 83 00:05:38,320 --> 00:05:40,520 Speaker 1: just for the penalty base to give him the death 84 00:05:40,520 --> 00:05:43,560 Speaker 1: penalty again. Take a listen to our friend Diegit Fitzpatrick 85 00:05:43,720 --> 00:05:48,080 Speaker 1: kc are A three knees and that breaking news is 86 00:05:48,080 --> 00:05:50,920 Speaker 1: on a high profile case out of Modesto. The California 87 00:05:50,960 --> 00:05:53,520 Speaker 1: Supreme Court has now overturned the two thousand and five 88 00:05:53,640 --> 00:05:56,880 Speaker 1: death sentants for Scott Peterson and the slaying of his 89 00:05:57,000 --> 00:06:00,000 Speaker 1: then pregnant wife. The courts still upheld the two thousand 90 00:06:00,080 --> 00:06:02,680 Speaker 1: for murder conviction in the killing of Lacy Peterson, who 91 00:06:02,720 --> 00:06:05,000 Speaker 1: was eight months pregnant with their son at the time. 92 00:06:05,400 --> 00:06:08,160 Speaker 1: The court said that the trial judge made a series 93 00:06:08,200 --> 00:06:12,080 Speaker 1: of clear and significant errors in jury selection that under 94 00:06:12,160 --> 00:06:17,039 Speaker 1: longstanding United States Supreme Court precedent undermined Peterson's right to 95 00:06:17,080 --> 00:06:20,800 Speaker 1: an impartial jury in the penalty phase. Investigators said that 96 00:06:20,880 --> 00:06:23,560 Speaker 1: on Christmas Eve two thousand and two, Peterson dumped the 97 00:06:23,560 --> 00:06:26,400 Speaker 1: bodies from his fishing boat into the San Francisco Bay, 98 00:06:26,600 --> 00:06:29,760 Speaker 1: where they surface months later. Prosecutors have said that they 99 00:06:29,760 --> 00:06:33,640 Speaker 1: may try again for the same penalty sentence if they wish. 100 00:06:33,720 --> 00:06:36,640 Speaker 1: In the high profile case and the follow up to 101 00:06:36,680 --> 00:06:38,440 Speaker 1: that is in the last hours of state has a 102 00:06:38,560 --> 00:06:43,440 Speaker 1: nounced it will seek the death penalty against Scott Peterson. 103 00:06:43,960 --> 00:06:47,600 Speaker 1: Is it mute? Is it for nothing? The governor in California, 104 00:06:47,720 --> 00:06:52,760 Speaker 1: although the DP is constitutional in California, has pronounced a 105 00:06:52,839 --> 00:06:57,240 Speaker 1: moratorium on the DP for now, But clearly it takes 106 00:06:57,279 --> 00:07:00,320 Speaker 1: so long for anyone to be put to death that 107 00:07:00,560 --> 00:07:04,440 Speaker 1: Governor Newson will be long gone by the time Peterson 108 00:07:04,560 --> 00:07:07,599 Speaker 1: is convicted again if he gets the death penalty sentence 109 00:07:07,600 --> 00:07:11,720 Speaker 1: again and ultimately gets the death penalty. Joining me right now, 110 00:07:11,760 --> 00:07:14,880 Speaker 1: special guest Laura GARETTSI and joining me from la renowned 111 00:07:14,880 --> 00:07:18,239 Speaker 1: criminal defense attorney. She was on the original defense team 112 00:07:18,280 --> 00:07:22,040 Speaker 1: for Scott Peterson. Are you surprised at the state is 113 00:07:22,080 --> 00:07:25,080 Speaker 1: again seeking the death penalty on Peterson? No, not really, 114 00:07:25,400 --> 00:07:27,600 Speaker 1: I was expecting him to do that. They'd invested a 115 00:07:27,600 --> 00:07:30,280 Speaker 1: lot of time and energy in getting the conviction and 116 00:07:30,400 --> 00:07:33,480 Speaker 1: of course the death penalty I was just surprised at 117 00:07:33,480 --> 00:07:37,000 Speaker 1: the way they did it. They announced it in the courtroom, 118 00:07:37,200 --> 00:07:39,360 Speaker 1: and the defense had no idea it was coming. As 119 00:07:39,360 --> 00:07:43,920 Speaker 1: far as with the decision itself, it had been maybe 120 00:07:43,920 --> 00:07:47,440 Speaker 1: a month and a half to two months since the 121 00:07:47,480 --> 00:07:54,600 Speaker 1: Supreme Court decision, and they announced their decision to go 122 00:07:54,720 --> 00:07:57,840 Speaker 1: for the death penalty again and retry that in the 123 00:07:57,920 --> 00:08:01,000 Speaker 1: court question, do you, Laura Uretts, why are you not 124 00:08:01,160 --> 00:08:04,320 Speaker 1: surprised at State is seeking the DP on Scott Peterson again? 125 00:08:04,400 --> 00:08:06,720 Speaker 1: And why are you surprised they announced it? They were 126 00:08:06,720 --> 00:08:10,080 Speaker 1: having a hearing, Scott Peterson was there via video link. 127 00:08:10,400 --> 00:08:12,800 Speaker 1: Why not go ahead and let everybody know what's happening. 128 00:08:13,160 --> 00:08:16,280 Speaker 1: The reason that I'm not surprised about the decision is 129 00:08:17,600 --> 00:08:20,080 Speaker 1: that not necessarily because I believe one way or the 130 00:08:20,120 --> 00:08:23,200 Speaker 1: other as far as Scott Peterson is concerned. I mean, 131 00:08:23,240 --> 00:08:25,760 Speaker 1: I clearly my position will has always been in the 132 00:08:25,760 --> 00:08:27,640 Speaker 1: position of the defense team, and I'm sure you could 133 00:08:27,640 --> 00:08:30,600 Speaker 1: hear it when Pat Harris was speaking about in its 134 00:08:30,640 --> 00:08:34,000 Speaker 1: current attorney that the defense team always believed and was 135 00:08:34,120 --> 00:08:37,120 Speaker 1: very supportive of Scott and we believed that he was 136 00:08:37,800 --> 00:08:42,600 Speaker 1: stone called innocent. And as far as the decision, I mean, 137 00:08:42,640 --> 00:08:48,319 Speaker 1: I always knew the prosecution was always out to get it. 138 00:08:48,440 --> 00:08:51,320 Speaker 1: We're going to do everything possible to get Scott, and 139 00:08:51,360 --> 00:08:53,120 Speaker 1: they're just not going to walk away from it. So 140 00:08:53,200 --> 00:08:57,960 Speaker 1: does that surprise you think the state was quote out 141 00:08:58,000 --> 00:09:02,400 Speaker 1: to get Scott your I mean their prosecutors, and their 142 00:09:02,480 --> 00:09:05,000 Speaker 1: job is if they go after somebody, the idea is 143 00:09:05,040 --> 00:09:07,520 Speaker 1: that they would put them in prison. If it's a murder, 144 00:09:07,559 --> 00:09:09,560 Speaker 1: they'd want them to go away for life or get 145 00:09:09,559 --> 00:09:11,839 Speaker 1: the death penalty. I mean, that's what they do. So 146 00:09:11,880 --> 00:09:16,120 Speaker 1: it's not when you say they're get him. When you 147 00:09:16,160 --> 00:09:19,720 Speaker 1: say they're to get him, I mean to Bobby, some 148 00:09:19,760 --> 00:09:24,280 Speaker 1: people call this seek king justice. That's what some people 149 00:09:24,360 --> 00:09:28,160 Speaker 1: would say, Bobby. But a defendant, oh way, deserves justice, 150 00:09:28,480 --> 00:09:31,079 Speaker 1: not just I think Lacey and Connor deserves justice because 151 00:09:31,200 --> 00:09:33,880 Speaker 1: the people who are really perpetrated this crime should be 152 00:09:34,200 --> 00:09:37,760 Speaker 1: arrested and tried, not the wrong person. I would very 153 00:09:37,760 --> 00:09:39,760 Speaker 1: I would very much hope that the prosecutors are out 154 00:09:39,800 --> 00:09:41,360 Speaker 1: to give stop fears, and I would hope that they're 155 00:09:41,360 --> 00:09:43,520 Speaker 1: out to get anybody to commit such an as murder. 156 00:09:43,720 --> 00:09:46,800 Speaker 1: I mean, that's the essential. That's their job. Their job 157 00:09:46,880 --> 00:09:49,319 Speaker 1: is to go out and get the people responsible for 158 00:09:49,400 --> 00:09:51,440 Speaker 1: these changious crimes. But I don't mind the way's being 159 00:09:51,559 --> 00:09:54,040 Speaker 1: said they're out to get him. I don't think they're 160 00:09:54,120 --> 00:09:57,600 Speaker 1: out to get anybody like some kind of vendetta. I 161 00:09:57,640 --> 00:10:01,520 Speaker 1: think they're out to seek justice to convict the person 162 00:10:02,000 --> 00:10:05,240 Speaker 1: that committed a double murder. Absolutely they are, and they 163 00:10:05,559 --> 00:10:08,319 Speaker 1: conducted a proper investigation. I was part of that investigation, 164 00:10:08,640 --> 00:10:11,440 Speaker 1: and they had the evidence. And so now you go 165 00:10:11,520 --> 00:10:15,240 Speaker 1: after the person that you are evidence to supports having 166 00:10:15,240 --> 00:10:17,160 Speaker 1: committed the crime. And they did that, and they went 167 00:10:17,200 --> 00:10:19,240 Speaker 1: to trial, and they presented that evidence to a jury 168 00:10:19,240 --> 00:10:21,920 Speaker 1: and they got a conviction. Exactly what they were supposed 169 00:10:21,960 --> 00:10:24,760 Speaker 1: to do. They upheld their responsibilities that people are saying 170 00:10:24,760 --> 00:10:40,679 Speaker 1: to help Bunting Time stories with Nancy Grace. Guys, we 171 00:10:40,679 --> 00:10:43,800 Speaker 1: are talking about the case of Scott Peterson, convicted in 172 00:10:43,840 --> 00:10:47,160 Speaker 1: the murder of his wife Lacy and their unborn child, Connor. 173 00:10:48,040 --> 00:10:53,280 Speaker 1: She goes missing on Christmas Eve is last person confirmed 174 00:10:53,600 --> 00:10:56,439 Speaker 1: to have seen her alive. Other people have said they 175 00:10:56,520 --> 00:11:00,240 Speaker 1: saw her walking in the part the fault that morning, However, 176 00:11:00,400 --> 00:11:06,240 Speaker 1: those stories have been discredited. He also said that morning 177 00:11:06,760 --> 00:11:09,200 Speaker 1: that he had been out playing golf, but then after 178 00:11:09,280 --> 00:11:13,360 Speaker 1: realizing he was spotted at the San Francisco Marina, changed 179 00:11:13,400 --> 00:11:19,439 Speaker 1: his story to fishing, clearly placing himself at the scene 180 00:11:19,480 --> 00:11:24,120 Speaker 1: where her body washes up. He says he was fishing 181 00:11:24,480 --> 00:11:27,040 Speaker 1: on the San Francisco Bay the morning she goes missing. 182 00:11:27,320 --> 00:11:31,160 Speaker 1: Her body washes up off the San Francisco Bay. Then 183 00:11:31,320 --> 00:11:34,800 Speaker 1: within twenty four hours, the baby has washed up as well. 184 00:11:35,520 --> 00:11:38,960 Speaker 1: To Joseph Scott Morgan, Professor forensics, Jacksonville State University, an 185 00:11:39,000 --> 00:11:42,000 Speaker 1: author of Blood Beneath My Feet on Amazon, what do 186 00:11:42,080 --> 00:11:45,319 Speaker 1: you consider to be the most powerful evidence in the case. 187 00:11:46,440 --> 00:11:48,240 Speaker 1: I think it's probably going to come down to the 188 00:11:48,280 --> 00:11:54,760 Speaker 1: timeline and placing Scott Peterson, you know, in these questionable locations. 189 00:11:54,840 --> 00:11:57,480 Speaker 1: I think that that's really the only thing that the 190 00:11:57,559 --> 00:12:00,040 Speaker 1: defense has to hang I mean, its prosecution has to 191 00:12:00,080 --> 00:12:05,960 Speaker 1: hang their hat on. One of the problems with Lacy 192 00:12:06,000 --> 00:12:10,679 Speaker 1: and Connor's bodies is that there's nothing definitive, and this 193 00:12:10,760 --> 00:12:13,160 Speaker 1: has been stated over and over again that there was 194 00:12:13,200 --> 00:12:16,199 Speaker 1: any kind of man made trauma that you could see 195 00:12:16,559 --> 00:12:18,560 Speaker 1: you to their bodies. Now, the bodies or what we 196 00:12:18,640 --> 00:12:23,840 Speaker 1: refer to in you know, forensic parlance, has being macerated. 197 00:12:23,880 --> 00:12:27,400 Speaker 1: That means they're decomposed they've sustained, and particularly in this 198 00:12:27,480 --> 00:12:31,199 Speaker 1: water borne environment, they sustained tremendous amount of trauma, probably 199 00:12:31,280 --> 00:12:35,320 Speaker 1: post mortem. It's a hostile environment. So that bit of 200 00:12:35,360 --> 00:12:37,800 Speaker 1: evidence has gone. And I gotta tell you, Nancy, one 201 00:12:37,800 --> 00:12:41,280 Speaker 1: of the things that has always struck me. Now, I 202 00:12:41,280 --> 00:12:45,520 Speaker 1: gotta tell you something, Joe Scott Morgan, if Lacy Peters 203 00:12:45,520 --> 00:12:51,480 Speaker 1: in which I believe happened was manually strangled or suffocated, 204 00:12:51,600 --> 00:12:54,600 Speaker 1: just for instance, with a pillow or a soft object. 205 00:12:54,760 --> 00:12:57,559 Speaker 1: Then her body thrown into the cold waters of the 206 00:12:57,600 --> 00:13:01,360 Speaker 1: San Francisco Bay where it stayed there for weeks on end, 207 00:13:02,080 --> 00:13:09,880 Speaker 1: until she started to become not skeletonized, but skeleton like, 208 00:13:10,960 --> 00:13:17,360 Speaker 1: to the point where ultimately her uterus decomposed and opened 209 00:13:17,600 --> 00:13:23,800 Speaker 1: up and Connor floats out off her uterus. And that's 210 00:13:23,840 --> 00:13:30,120 Speaker 1: what happened to her uterus protected by muscle, bone, skin. 211 00:13:30,720 --> 00:13:35,600 Speaker 1: What do you think happened to strangle marks on her neck? 212 00:13:35,920 --> 00:13:38,080 Speaker 1: And if there had been an asphyxiation such as with 213 00:13:38,120 --> 00:13:41,080 Speaker 1: a pillow, there would be no marks except for a 214 00:13:41,160 --> 00:13:45,040 Speaker 1: possible particular hemorrhage and the eyeball. Come on, get real, man, 215 00:13:46,360 --> 00:13:48,480 Speaker 1: I'm trying to keep it as real as possible. Nancy 216 00:13:48,720 --> 00:13:51,480 Speaker 1: doesn't sound like it. Well, I am Nancy with the 217 00:13:51,559 --> 00:13:55,520 Speaker 1: end within a reasonable scientific certainty, And right now you're 218 00:13:55,640 --> 00:13:58,600 Speaker 1: absent one of the biggest things that that is her head. 219 00:13:59,160 --> 00:14:01,480 Speaker 1: And so her head is missing from her body, and 220 00:14:01,520 --> 00:14:04,000 Speaker 1: there's been a lot of speculation about that. She's got 221 00:14:04,000 --> 00:14:06,720 Speaker 1: parts of her limbs that were missing as well. There's 222 00:14:06,760 --> 00:14:09,720 Speaker 1: been any number of people that have stated things like, well, 223 00:14:09,760 --> 00:14:12,240 Speaker 1: you know, maybe she was dismembered before she went into 224 00:14:12,280 --> 00:14:16,440 Speaker 1: the water. Well there's a high likelihood of that, but 225 00:14:16,800 --> 00:14:20,560 Speaker 1: they don't have this, they don't have this, this evidence 226 00:14:20,560 --> 00:14:24,360 Speaker 1: to fall back on. And so you know, look, you've 227 00:14:24,520 --> 00:14:27,320 Speaker 1: hit it right on the head. If we're thinking about 228 00:14:28,080 --> 00:14:30,320 Speaker 1: some kind of harm coming to her that would have 229 00:14:30,360 --> 00:14:32,800 Speaker 1: brought about her death, you're gonna find it in the neck. 230 00:14:33,000 --> 00:14:35,040 Speaker 1: You're gonna find it in the head with a blunt 231 00:14:35,040 --> 00:14:37,840 Speaker 1: force injury or something such as this. But the body 232 00:14:37,920 --> 00:14:40,560 Speaker 1: is too compromised, and you're absent a big piece of 233 00:14:40,600 --> 00:14:44,360 Speaker 1: evidence here. That's what's left people's scratching there is her 234 00:14:44,360 --> 00:14:49,880 Speaker 1: skin had floated off her body. Is that true? Morgan? Yes, yeah, 235 00:14:49,920 --> 00:14:53,760 Speaker 1: as I've stated earlier, maceration. Yeah, well you said maceration. 236 00:14:53,920 --> 00:15:00,400 Speaker 1: I said her skin dic imposed and floated off body. 237 00:15:00,680 --> 00:15:05,720 Speaker 1: Karen Start, psychologist joining Mata Manhattan. Karen, I remember this 238 00:15:06,040 --> 00:15:10,360 Speaker 1: blow by blow in the courtroom. What do you think 239 00:15:10,440 --> 00:15:13,200 Speaker 1: it has Nancy? Yes? What do you think it has 240 00:15:13,280 --> 00:15:17,400 Speaker 1: done to Lacy's mother, Sharon Roacha over all these years, 241 00:15:18,080 --> 00:15:22,200 Speaker 1: not even having her daughter's skull, not having her daughter's skull, 242 00:15:22,320 --> 00:15:26,160 Speaker 1: not having her grandson who would due to be born. 243 00:15:26,720 --> 00:15:29,680 Speaker 1: She wrote a book about it. I mean, it was devastating, 244 00:15:29,760 --> 00:15:32,480 Speaker 1: and this is something and you know you're a mother, Nancy, 245 00:15:32,960 --> 00:15:36,600 Speaker 1: she will never ever get over the loss of her 246 00:15:36,680 --> 00:15:41,040 Speaker 1: child and her grandchild. That's something that will always stay 247 00:15:41,080 --> 00:15:45,120 Speaker 1: with her. And there's nothing you can do to really 248 00:15:45,240 --> 00:15:48,800 Speaker 1: make that be better. It's a permanent hole in her heart. 249 00:15:49,720 --> 00:15:53,960 Speaker 1: Bobby Chicon, what's the reality. You've been through so many investigations. 250 00:15:53,960 --> 00:15:56,280 Speaker 1: So I'm going to circle back to right now. A 251 00:15:56,280 --> 00:15:59,920 Speaker 1: criminal defense attorney who's actually one of the original mary 252 00:16:00,320 --> 00:16:05,120 Speaker 1: of the Scott Peterson defense team, Bobby Chicone retrying a 253 00:16:05,240 --> 00:16:10,160 Speaker 1: case is h e double l Let me tell you something. 254 00:16:10,560 --> 00:16:14,360 Speaker 1: I had been in the DA's office. I just really graduated, 255 00:16:14,360 --> 00:16:19,760 Speaker 1: I guess you could say, to complicated homicides and the DA, 256 00:16:20,000 --> 00:16:23,480 Speaker 1: the elected district attorney called me down and told me 257 00:16:23,520 --> 00:16:27,760 Speaker 1: he wanted me to retry a case. Immirely thought, WHOA, 258 00:16:27,760 --> 00:16:30,520 Speaker 1: WHOA wait, one of my case has been reversed. No, 259 00:16:31,360 --> 00:16:34,240 Speaker 1: it was a case that had been tried fifteen or 260 00:16:34,280 --> 00:16:37,840 Speaker 1: so years before. I was either in undergrad or first 261 00:16:37,920 --> 00:16:40,760 Speaker 1: year of law school when it was tried, much less 262 00:16:40,800 --> 00:16:45,560 Speaker 1: when it happened, Bobby. I got into the evidence room. 263 00:16:45,960 --> 00:16:48,640 Speaker 1: Guess what was left of the evidence. The evidence room 264 00:16:48,640 --> 00:16:54,240 Speaker 1: had moved several times. I had one X ray and 265 00:16:54,400 --> 00:17:00,240 Speaker 1: I had a hat that said kiss my bass. That 266 00:17:00,320 --> 00:17:05,639 Speaker 1: was my physical Bobby gone. You know, crowds are more 267 00:17:05,640 --> 00:17:08,439 Speaker 1: difficult enough, right in a couple of murder trials, the 268 00:17:08,480 --> 00:17:10,399 Speaker 1: hardest to have, and then when you have to do 269 00:17:10,440 --> 00:17:12,959 Speaker 1: it years later, this gate fifteen years later. I had 270 00:17:12,960 --> 00:17:15,040 Speaker 1: a fugitive once that was on the run for eight years, 271 00:17:15,040 --> 00:17:16,840 Speaker 1: and I had to trium after eight years. Luckily he 272 00:17:16,920 --> 00:17:18,720 Speaker 1: played out at the last minute. But you're right, we 273 00:17:18,720 --> 00:17:21,280 Speaker 1: have to go back into these old, dusty evidence bosses 274 00:17:21,320 --> 00:17:25,119 Speaker 1: and revive everything. The one good thing about this particular 275 00:17:25,160 --> 00:17:28,159 Speaker 1: case for the prostitution is that none of the reversible errors, 276 00:17:28,160 --> 00:17:30,439 Speaker 1: if it is reversed on these errors, has to do 277 00:17:30,480 --> 00:17:32,520 Speaker 1: with the evidence presented at trials. These are more like 278 00:17:32,960 --> 00:17:35,920 Speaker 1: process errors. This was a jury selection error, or a 279 00:17:36,040 --> 00:17:38,879 Speaker 1: juror may have been lying or may have been deceitful 280 00:17:39,000 --> 00:17:42,000 Speaker 1: on their vadier when they were selected to the jury. 281 00:17:42,160 --> 00:17:44,520 Speaker 1: So none of the errors cited by the court have 282 00:17:44,640 --> 00:17:46,720 Speaker 1: to do with the evidence presented to the jury and 283 00:17:46,800 --> 00:17:49,640 Speaker 1: what the jury considered. So this is, you know, that's 284 00:17:49,680 --> 00:17:52,880 Speaker 1: at least of one consolation to the prostitutions that these 285 00:17:53,000 --> 00:17:56,760 Speaker 1: errors do not relate to the evidence presented against Stop Peterson. 286 00:17:57,080 --> 00:18:00,440 Speaker 1: They were more what a lay person might consenter pamanities, 287 00:18:00,680 --> 00:18:02,840 Speaker 1: But obviously they would late to whether he was seen 288 00:18:02,840 --> 00:18:05,679 Speaker 1: a fair trial, which is constitution of protective That's a 289 00:18:05,800 --> 00:18:09,840 Speaker 1: very very good point, Bobby Chican, because the California Supreme 290 00:18:09,880 --> 00:18:13,280 Speaker 1: Court was very clear that the evidence was overwhelming of 291 00:18:13,440 --> 00:18:19,520 Speaker 1: Peterson's guilt. It was in fact a gerar error. Also, 292 00:18:20,280 --> 00:18:24,520 Speaker 1: Laura Ratzian, high profile criminal defense attorney, and all started 293 00:18:24,680 --> 00:18:28,760 Speaker 1: when the California Court said there was a handful of 294 00:18:28,840 --> 00:18:30,960 Speaker 1: girars that it said they didn't believe in the death 295 00:18:30,960 --> 00:18:35,199 Speaker 1: penalty on their questionnaire, a very extensive questionnaire, i might add, 296 00:18:35,640 --> 00:18:38,840 Speaker 1: which you may have helped create that questionnaire. It's very 297 00:18:38,840 --> 00:18:44,639 Speaker 1: extensive and well, many girars were questioned about saying they 298 00:18:44,640 --> 00:18:47,080 Speaker 1: didn't believe in the death penalty. There were some jers 299 00:18:47,119 --> 00:18:49,920 Speaker 1: I think it was thirteen in all that were not 300 00:18:50,119 --> 00:18:56,280 Speaker 1: individually voided questioned on that issue, such as, you say 301 00:18:56,280 --> 00:18:59,440 Speaker 1: you don't believe in it, but could you follow the 302 00:18:59,520 --> 00:19:02,480 Speaker 1: law in the right circumstances. They were never really questioned. 303 00:19:02,560 --> 00:19:05,960 Speaker 1: So that was the first problem right there. Then it 304 00:19:06,080 --> 00:19:09,280 Speaker 1: came up about the girar that said she had never 305 00:19:09,280 --> 00:19:12,119 Speaker 1: been a crime victim, when in fact, she had filed 306 00:19:12,160 --> 00:19:15,440 Speaker 1: a t r O restraining order protective order against her 307 00:19:15,440 --> 00:19:20,080 Speaker 1: boyfriend's ex girlfriend who was harassing her during her the 308 00:19:20,160 --> 00:19:26,520 Speaker 1: Girars pregnancy, Laura in fact that not just a juror, 309 00:19:26,560 --> 00:19:30,719 Speaker 1: the ex girlfriend of her boyfriend had done time, had 310 00:19:30,760 --> 00:19:33,960 Speaker 1: also been convicted of a crime because of that, and 311 00:19:34,040 --> 00:19:37,760 Speaker 1: she served time. So this was very important. It was 312 00:19:38,000 --> 00:19:43,560 Speaker 1: material and it was something that should have been disclosed 313 00:19:43,800 --> 00:19:46,400 Speaker 1: to the prosecution, to the defense and in the courtroom 314 00:19:46,440 --> 00:19:51,439 Speaker 1: for all to hear. But this juror obviously decided not 315 00:19:51,520 --> 00:19:56,719 Speaker 1: to do that. And the only thing that's pretty obvious 316 00:19:56,800 --> 00:19:58,840 Speaker 1: to me, at least on its face, and it's evident 317 00:19:59,040 --> 00:20:01,320 Speaker 1: that she wanted to on that jury at any cause, 318 00:20:01,840 --> 00:20:05,600 Speaker 1: including lying and withholding of it as an important information 319 00:20:06,560 --> 00:20:09,960 Speaker 1: from the defense team and the particution in the court. 320 00:20:10,600 --> 00:20:14,840 Speaker 1: And it's I'm glad where where we are because Scott 321 00:20:14,840 --> 00:20:19,600 Speaker 1: Peterson never got a fair trial. He deserved an impartial jury. 322 00:20:20,040 --> 00:20:22,520 Speaker 1: He deserved a fair trial, just like any other defendant. 323 00:20:23,359 --> 00:20:27,440 Speaker 1: We have a criminal justice system that's based on these 324 00:20:27,600 --> 00:20:32,240 Speaker 1: very important rights, constitutional right, and regardless of who the 325 00:20:32,320 --> 00:20:34,359 Speaker 1: person is, and who the defendant is, and what you 326 00:20:34,400 --> 00:20:37,119 Speaker 1: believe and what your visceral reaction is, how much you 327 00:20:37,160 --> 00:20:40,200 Speaker 1: hate this defendant, the one thing that every defendant is 328 00:20:40,359 --> 00:20:43,959 Speaker 1: entitled to is a fair trial and an impartial jury, 329 00:20:44,200 --> 00:20:47,159 Speaker 1: one thing that we all know Scott Peterson did not 330 00:20:47,240 --> 00:20:50,280 Speaker 1: get an Hence we've got the overturning of the death 331 00:20:50,280 --> 00:20:54,000 Speaker 1: penalty and potentially and hopefully the overturning of the conviction. 332 00:20:55,280 --> 00:20:59,240 Speaker 1: I don't believe anyone is suggesting at any point, Laura 333 00:20:59,280 --> 00:21:03,159 Speaker 1: Yure at CNN, that any defendant that exists in the 334 00:21:03,280 --> 00:21:07,280 Speaker 1: US or anywhere does not deserve a fair trial. While 335 00:21:07,320 --> 00:21:11,760 Speaker 1: I appreciate your sermon you just preached at me, I 336 00:21:11,800 --> 00:21:14,280 Speaker 1: actually agree with you. I hate that you waited all 337 00:21:14,320 --> 00:21:18,520 Speaker 1: that wasted all that energy. We all agree even Scott 338 00:21:18,520 --> 00:21:37,840 Speaker 1: Peterson deserves a fair trial. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Guys, 339 00:21:37,920 --> 00:21:42,240 Speaker 1: we are talking about a very surprising twist and the 340 00:21:42,280 --> 00:21:46,560 Speaker 1: Scott Peterson conviction. Take a listen to our friend Anita 341 00:21:46,800 --> 00:21:51,000 Speaker 1: Vogel at Fox News. He was convicted and sentenced to 342 00:21:51,080 --> 00:21:53,879 Speaker 1: die in two thousand and five, and now we're finding 343 00:21:53,920 --> 00:21:58,160 Speaker 1: out some fifteen years later today the California Supreme Court 344 00:21:58,240 --> 00:22:03,000 Speaker 1: has overturned the death Peterson's lawyers had contended all along 345 00:22:03,040 --> 00:22:05,000 Speaker 1: he was not able to get a fair trial because 346 00:22:05,040 --> 00:22:08,080 Speaker 1: of all the pre trial publicity with the case, but 347 00:22:08,240 --> 00:22:11,480 Speaker 1: the court rejected that argument. Yet, it did say that 348 00:22:11,480 --> 00:22:14,720 Speaker 1: the trial judge made a series of clear and significant 349 00:22:14,800 --> 00:22:19,720 Speaker 1: errors in jury selection that undermined Peterson's right to impartial 350 00:22:19,800 --> 00:22:23,600 Speaker 1: jury during the penalty phase, and that potential jurors were 351 00:22:23,600 --> 00:22:27,800 Speaker 1: improperly dismissed from the jury pool after saying they personally 352 00:22:27,880 --> 00:22:30,560 Speaker 1: disagreed with the death penalty, but that they would be 353 00:22:30,600 --> 00:22:34,080 Speaker 1: willing to follow it and impose it. Peterson is now 354 00:22:34,119 --> 00:22:37,320 Speaker 1: forty seven years old. He was convicted of first degree murder. 355 00:22:37,560 --> 00:22:41,680 Speaker 1: From everything we understand, it seems that murder conviction will stand, 356 00:22:42,080 --> 00:22:45,240 Speaker 1: but not the death penalty. Prosecutors will have the right 357 00:22:45,359 --> 00:22:48,600 Speaker 1: to try again for a death penalty conviction. Although keep 358 00:22:48,640 --> 00:22:51,119 Speaker 1: in mind there are more than seven hundred prisoners on 359 00:22:51,200 --> 00:22:54,840 Speaker 1: California's death row and the last time anyone was put 360 00:22:54,880 --> 00:22:59,040 Speaker 1: to death was January of two thousand and six. Alexa's 361 00:22:59,080 --> 00:23:01,760 Speaker 1: Terrest shute with me I'm online dot Com investigative reporter. 362 00:23:02,200 --> 00:23:05,480 Speaker 1: In fact, the state has announced that Stanislaus County will 363 00:23:05,520 --> 00:23:09,399 Speaker 1: seek the death penalty against Scott Peterson, even with the 364 00:23:09,440 --> 00:23:13,640 Speaker 1: California Supreme Court coming down on them regarding a jurr 365 00:23:13,800 --> 00:23:18,119 Speaker 1: selection issue. Alexis Terrestcha. It may be worse than that 366 00:23:18,320 --> 00:23:22,200 Speaker 1: for the state because now there is movement of foot 367 00:23:22,240 --> 00:23:27,280 Speaker 1: for the entire conviction to be overturned, not just the 368 00:23:27,280 --> 00:23:31,320 Speaker 1: death penalty phase the sentencing, but the conviction itself. Yep. 369 00:23:31,680 --> 00:23:36,680 Speaker 1: This they have rule that the original that the case 370 00:23:36,760 --> 00:23:39,359 Speaker 1: can go back to the county and that they can 371 00:23:39,440 --> 00:23:43,720 Speaker 1: reconsider the actual conviction. So there is a chance that 372 00:23:43,760 --> 00:23:47,360 Speaker 1: the conviction itself could be thrown out too. And back 373 00:23:47,400 --> 00:23:50,840 Speaker 1: to Laura Ratzian, high profile criminal defense lawyer who was 374 00:23:50,880 --> 00:23:54,879 Speaker 1: a member of Scott Peterson's original defense team. Why is 375 00:23:54,880 --> 00:23:58,960 Speaker 1: the court now saying that Stanislas County should take another 376 00:23:59,119 --> 00:24:03,960 Speaker 1: look at the con the guilty verdict itself, because one 377 00:24:03,960 --> 00:24:09,120 Speaker 1: of the jurors, it was a juror number seven, did 378 00:24:09,119 --> 00:24:11,520 Speaker 1: not disclose that she was a victim of a crime, 379 00:24:11,640 --> 00:24:15,400 Speaker 1: not just a victim of any crime. She was pregnant 380 00:24:15,440 --> 00:24:17,560 Speaker 1: four and a half months pregnant at the time, and 381 00:24:17,760 --> 00:24:21,159 Speaker 1: was very very much in fear of the safety of 382 00:24:21,240 --> 00:24:26,040 Speaker 1: her unborn child. The ex girlfriend of her boyfriend had 383 00:24:26,080 --> 00:24:29,240 Speaker 1: been threatening. There are certain things that she was alleging 384 00:24:29,280 --> 00:24:30,960 Speaker 1: that she was doing that it was so bad that 385 00:24:31,080 --> 00:24:35,720 Speaker 1: she ended up getting a restraining order against her for 386 00:24:35,840 --> 00:24:39,560 Speaker 1: at least three years, And in fact, that same woman 387 00:24:39,800 --> 00:24:43,240 Speaker 1: was convicted of a crime and ended up serving time. 388 00:24:44,280 --> 00:24:47,320 Speaker 1: So the idea that she kept that to herself was 389 00:24:47,440 --> 00:24:50,840 Speaker 1: extremely highly prejudicial, especially in a case where he had 390 00:24:50,880 --> 00:24:55,280 Speaker 1: a pregnant Lacey was gone missing and an unborn child 391 00:24:55,359 --> 00:24:59,560 Speaker 1: of his gone missing, So it was crucial that exactly. 392 00:25:00,160 --> 00:25:04,439 Speaker 1: So it's the same ground, it's the same allegation, the 393 00:25:04,520 --> 00:25:09,240 Speaker 1: same argument that was made to get the death penalty 394 00:25:09,359 --> 00:25:14,520 Speaker 1: sentence reversed. That's being used for the court to re 395 00:25:14,760 --> 00:25:21,480 Speaker 1: examine whether the conviction itself should stand. Let's get back exactly, 396 00:25:21,600 --> 00:25:23,600 Speaker 1: though not exactly. That's not the way I see it. 397 00:25:23,640 --> 00:25:27,520 Speaker 1: The death penalty was reversed on different grounds, and that 398 00:25:27,600 --> 00:25:30,400 Speaker 1: gives the court the judge made a huge mistake, and 399 00:25:30,440 --> 00:25:34,600 Speaker 1: he basically disqualified anyone who said they do not believe 400 00:25:34,640 --> 00:25:38,120 Speaker 1: in a death penalty, never bothered to allow the defense 401 00:25:38,200 --> 00:25:43,240 Speaker 1: or the prosecutions. The questions on warder for thirteen for 402 00:25:43,359 --> 00:25:48,560 Speaker 1: thirteen jurals out of hundreds of girars. Other girars were 403 00:25:48,760 --> 00:25:53,400 Speaker 1: questioned on that very issue. Those thirteen girars were not. 404 00:25:53,560 --> 00:25:56,200 Speaker 1: So we have that issue. Then we have the jurar 405 00:25:56,359 --> 00:26:00,639 Speaker 1: issue of Gerar number seven, Shell Reese, who did not 406 00:26:00,760 --> 00:26:04,439 Speaker 1: disclose she had a temporary restraining order taken out and 407 00:26:04,520 --> 00:26:09,560 Speaker 1: there was a subsequent conviction of her boyfriend's ex girlfriend 408 00:26:09,840 --> 00:26:14,960 Speaker 1: who was harassing her the JARAR during her pregnancy. Those 409 00:26:14,960 --> 00:26:18,960 Speaker 1: are two claims. Is there a third claim? Laura, You're 410 00:26:19,000 --> 00:26:25,040 Speaker 1: at sin So those two claims are in fact the 411 00:26:25,119 --> 00:26:31,359 Speaker 1: same claims that are being argued and presented for the 412 00:26:31,520 --> 00:26:38,000 Speaker 1: conviction itself to be reversed. Let's get back in touch 413 00:26:38,160 --> 00:26:42,600 Speaker 1: with the facts at issue. Take a listen to ABC's 414 00:26:43,000 --> 00:26:56,080 Speaker 1: twenty twenty Okay, yes, my fellow local all my daughter pregnant. 415 00:26:56,119 --> 00:26:58,560 Speaker 1: You could have done for a walking apart from them, 416 00:26:58,600 --> 00:27:01,520 Speaker 1: the god came home with difficul you sh the dog 417 00:27:01,560 --> 00:27:05,600 Speaker 1: came back about your daughter. Right. I think I got 418 00:27:06,560 --> 00:27:12,680 Speaker 1: your step daughter, thank you, thank you? Right? And you 419 00:27:12,760 --> 00:27:19,320 Speaker 1: why black Asian Portuga? How are okay? She's twenty thick? 420 00:27:19,760 --> 00:27:21,560 Speaker 1: What can you hear me? The halfman and come back 421 00:27:22,119 --> 00:27:24,240 Speaker 1: that we don't know. We just got a call from 422 00:27:24,280 --> 00:27:26,800 Speaker 1: her front in law getting left the point and there 423 00:27:26,920 --> 00:27:31,800 Speaker 1: even play golf about a half hour ago, nowhere around. 424 00:27:32,240 --> 00:27:34,800 Speaker 1: I think he went come up to dog walked it 425 00:27:34,880 --> 00:27:43,120 Speaker 1: in me in that heart than conant, he said Patement. Yeah, okay, 426 00:27:43,160 --> 00:27:49,600 Speaker 1: Well that was Lacy's stepdad, her mom, Sharon Roach's husband, 427 00:27:50,040 --> 00:27:53,800 Speaker 1: Ron Gransky, calling nine one one. Let me understand something. 428 00:27:53,920 --> 00:27:58,080 Speaker 1: Laura Euretzian Uh, the member of Peterson's original defense team. 429 00:27:58,359 --> 00:28:02,399 Speaker 1: I believe I heard her father, Ron Gransky, state that 430 00:28:03,400 --> 00:28:08,280 Speaker 1: Peterson had told him that he went golfing that morning 431 00:28:08,440 --> 00:28:11,639 Speaker 1: at nine thirty and that when he returned, Lacy was 432 00:28:11,760 --> 00:28:15,000 Speaker 1: not home. That's why her two. But the bottom line 433 00:28:15,200 --> 00:28:18,200 Speaker 1: is it's not clear to me what he's talking about. 434 00:28:18,200 --> 00:28:21,400 Speaker 1: If Peterson said it before the day before a couple 435 00:28:21,520 --> 00:28:23,800 Speaker 1: days prior to that that he was finding ongoing. The 436 00:28:23,880 --> 00:28:26,080 Speaker 1: other thing is that what really matters is what Peterson 437 00:28:26,160 --> 00:28:30,240 Speaker 1: told law enforcement. Well, that's not questions true, Laura. What 438 00:28:30,440 --> 00:28:33,520 Speaker 1: matters to say he has an inconsistent statement. He told 439 00:28:33,600 --> 00:28:37,399 Speaker 1: not only Lacy's stepdad that morning he had gone golfing 440 00:28:37,440 --> 00:28:40,240 Speaker 1: at nine thirty. He told somebody else that as well. 441 00:28:40,680 --> 00:28:44,160 Speaker 1: The dad's not the only one. Then later he told 442 00:28:44,240 --> 00:28:47,239 Speaker 1: cops a different story when he realized he had been 443 00:28:47,320 --> 00:28:51,760 Speaker 1: spotted at the marina with his boat where Lacy went missing. 444 00:28:51,800 --> 00:28:54,200 Speaker 1: You know what, Let's play that again so we can 445 00:28:54,240 --> 00:28:57,640 Speaker 1: all be very clear at Jackie about what Peterson said 446 00:28:57,880 --> 00:29:02,160 Speaker 1: he had been doing the morning his why disappeared. Okay, 447 00:29:02,200 --> 00:29:14,080 Speaker 1: I he yes, my photow lowballing my daughter. I'm not 448 00:29:14,240 --> 00:29:17,720 Speaker 1: sure about you, Alexis, but I heard Grant Sky state 449 00:29:18,000 --> 00:29:22,520 Speaker 1: very clearly. My son in law called this morning said 450 00:29:22,560 --> 00:29:26,040 Speaker 1: even playing golf this morning. Yep, that's what I heard too, 451 00:29:26,160 --> 00:29:28,360 Speaker 1: And that's what he said. That's what Lake's dad told 452 00:29:28,400 --> 00:29:32,920 Speaker 1: the police and are called Kobe operator. That is what 453 00:29:33,280 --> 00:29:36,680 Speaker 1: his story was at first. Then there was evidence that 454 00:29:36,760 --> 00:29:39,960 Speaker 1: he was in the marina, so then he changed his story. Also, 455 00:29:40,080 --> 00:29:42,760 Speaker 1: can lamp back to the juror that everybody keeps saying 456 00:29:42,880 --> 00:29:45,880 Speaker 1: has lied the person involved in the cake. Yeah, I 457 00:29:45,960 --> 00:29:48,000 Speaker 1: wanted to taught you about that too. You know, I 458 00:29:48,160 --> 00:29:51,840 Speaker 1: named her Strawberry Shortcake during the coverage because of her 459 00:29:51,920 --> 00:29:56,680 Speaker 1: red hair, and she seemed like such a sweet person. 460 00:29:57,440 --> 00:30:03,040 Speaker 1: I've often wondered she considered herself not to be a 461 00:30:03,120 --> 00:30:06,560 Speaker 1: crime victim. I've wondered if that's why she answered that way, Alexis, 462 00:30:07,040 --> 00:30:10,280 Speaker 1: you are exactly right, she said. When she was feeling 463 00:30:10,560 --> 00:30:13,400 Speaker 1: she said, nothing was the same in these two cases. 464 00:30:13,520 --> 00:30:17,320 Speaker 1: The girlfriend of her ex never threatened to kill me, 465 00:30:17,640 --> 00:30:20,000 Speaker 1: never threatened to kill my unborn child, never threatened to 466 00:30:20,040 --> 00:30:22,200 Speaker 1: beat me up, so she says, when I filled out 467 00:30:22,240 --> 00:30:25,480 Speaker 1: my questionnaire, none of this came to mind because they 468 00:30:25,600 --> 00:30:28,200 Speaker 1: weren't the same thing. And in fact, she dropped the 469 00:30:28,280 --> 00:30:32,040 Speaker 1: restraining order against this woman. They're friends, they have stayed, 470 00:30:32,160 --> 00:30:35,320 Speaker 1: they're friends, and the woman actually just spent a week 471 00:30:35,560 --> 00:30:39,200 Speaker 1: in jail for vandalism. It's very different than spending years 472 00:30:39,360 --> 00:30:42,240 Speaker 1: in jail for killing your wife and your unborn child. 473 00:30:43,000 --> 00:30:45,920 Speaker 1: You know, Alexis, I'm glad you told me that. I 474 00:30:46,080 --> 00:30:51,240 Speaker 1: did not realize that, but I know having been a 475 00:30:51,280 --> 00:30:57,040 Speaker 1: crime victim myself. Very often crime victim's families don't realize 476 00:30:57,240 --> 00:31:00,640 Speaker 1: they're a crime victim too. And I wondered all along, 477 00:31:01,120 --> 00:31:06,600 Speaker 1: if You're our seven didn't really regard herself as a 478 00:31:06,680 --> 00:31:10,959 Speaker 1: crime victim. She was never touched, punched, attacked. I always 479 00:31:11,040 --> 00:31:13,960 Speaker 1: wonder when all this came up, if You're our seven 480 00:31:15,040 --> 00:31:32,440 Speaker 1: did not consider herself a crime victim Crime Stories with 481 00:31:32,640 --> 00:31:38,600 Speaker 1: Nancy Grace. Guys, we're talking about a sudden sudden change 482 00:31:38,880 --> 00:31:44,240 Speaker 1: in the Scott Peterson conviction. And as you'll recall, Karen Start, 483 00:31:44,320 --> 00:31:47,680 Speaker 1: a New York psychologist joining us from Manhattan at Karen 484 00:31:47,800 --> 00:31:52,160 Speaker 1: Stark dot com. Karen, many times I've been asked over 485 00:31:52,200 --> 00:31:54,160 Speaker 1: the years, you don't really think that's going to get 486 00:31:54,200 --> 00:31:57,360 Speaker 1: reversed to you? And I would always say, you know what, 487 00:31:58,080 --> 00:32:01,640 Speaker 1: you never know what an appella court is going to do. 488 00:32:02,640 --> 00:32:06,360 Speaker 1: And there are people that firmly, especially after this, knew 489 00:32:06,480 --> 00:32:09,080 Speaker 1: was that A and E did a special on Peterson, Jackie. 490 00:32:11,320 --> 00:32:13,640 Speaker 1: A and E just came out with a quote special 491 00:32:13,800 --> 00:32:19,520 Speaker 1: on Scott Peterson that suggests he is innocent. That is 492 00:32:19,720 --> 00:32:24,880 Speaker 1: the furthest thing from the truth. Karen Stark, what do 493 00:32:25,040 --> 00:32:29,400 Speaker 1: you make of the sudden decision by the California Supreme Court. 494 00:32:29,800 --> 00:32:33,320 Speaker 1: And what this is doing to the crime victims left behind, 495 00:32:33,560 --> 00:32:37,480 Speaker 1: that is the family of Lacy. It's devastating, Nancy, think 496 00:32:37,520 --> 00:32:41,200 Speaker 1: about it. And so there was so much circumstantial evidence 497 00:32:41,280 --> 00:32:44,480 Speaker 1: which counts. And this is the fact that he was 498 00:32:44,520 --> 00:32:48,000 Speaker 1: able to lie one time, let alone that he told 499 00:32:48,200 --> 00:32:51,840 Speaker 1: his mistress to remember that and be fry that his 500 00:32:52,000 --> 00:32:55,280 Speaker 1: wife was dead, not that they were divorced, not that 501 00:32:55,360 --> 00:32:59,000 Speaker 1: they were separated, but she was dead. And I think 502 00:32:59,080 --> 00:33:02,720 Speaker 1: those life Karen. Karen, Oh my goodness, I feel like 503 00:33:02,800 --> 00:33:04,760 Speaker 1: you and I are at the sushi bar having sushi 504 00:33:04,880 --> 00:33:06,280 Speaker 1: right now that we used to do all the time 505 00:33:06,640 --> 00:33:10,720 Speaker 1: before the twins came. Karen. He didn't just say my 506 00:33:10,840 --> 00:33:14,600 Speaker 1: wife is dead. He said, this will be my first 507 00:33:15,040 --> 00:33:19,680 Speaker 1: Christmas as a widower, my wife. I lost my wife, 508 00:33:20,040 --> 00:33:23,160 Speaker 1: my first Christmas without her. And can you believe it. 509 00:33:23,880 --> 00:33:26,520 Speaker 1: Either he's a killer or he's a clairvoyant, Karen, start 510 00:33:26,800 --> 00:33:30,160 Speaker 1: because it turned out that was his first Christmas without 511 00:33:30,240 --> 00:33:33,680 Speaker 1: his wife, and she was dead, and he seemed to 512 00:33:33,800 --> 00:33:36,720 Speaker 1: predict that just a few days before she went missing. 513 00:33:37,360 --> 00:33:39,960 Speaker 1: And Nancy, when I was listening when you had that 514 00:33:40,080 --> 00:33:45,360 Speaker 1: repeated about her stepfather saying that Scott had called. He 515 00:33:45,560 --> 00:33:49,840 Speaker 1: even said he went goffing around nine thirty. I think 516 00:33:49,880 --> 00:33:52,760 Speaker 1: I heard that. Oh you know what, I hate replaying 517 00:33:52,840 --> 00:33:55,320 Speaker 1: the same sound, but I want to hear it again too, Jackie, 518 00:33:55,320 --> 00:33:58,120 Speaker 1: if you don't mind hearing the beginning of Ryan Grantsky, 519 00:33:58,760 --> 00:34:03,000 Speaker 1: God Rest his soul. Nine one one call. Okay, yeah, 520 00:34:04,360 --> 00:34:09,960 Speaker 1: my fellow low calling golf morning. My daughter has been 521 00:34:10,040 --> 00:34:13,480 Speaker 1: nothing this morning. She pregnancy heard her dog for a 522 00:34:13,520 --> 00:34:18,000 Speaker 1: waffle apart, the dog came home with police. The dog 523 00:34:18,080 --> 00:34:30,759 Speaker 1: came back forgot your daughter. I think, okay, right there, 524 00:34:31,520 --> 00:34:34,520 Speaker 1: What did you hear, Joe Scott Morgan, Yeah, I heard that, 525 00:34:35,360 --> 00:34:38,480 Speaker 1: you know that his uh, he'd been playing golf and 526 00:34:38,680 --> 00:34:42,959 Speaker 1: that he was absent. Uh, he's you know that she's 527 00:34:43,000 --> 00:34:46,680 Speaker 1: absent from the sphere. I think the most most striking 528 00:34:46,800 --> 00:34:49,600 Speaker 1: thing for me is this, uh, this thought that the 529 00:34:50,120 --> 00:34:54,120 Speaker 1: dog comes back with the leash on uh, to me 530 00:34:54,360 --> 00:34:57,200 Speaker 1: is quite striking. What is significant to me is that 531 00:34:57,320 --> 00:35:03,920 Speaker 1: Scott Peterson tells Ron Grantsky that morning he had been 532 00:35:04,000 --> 00:35:08,520 Speaker 1: playing golf. This wasn't two or three days before when 533 00:35:08,560 --> 00:35:12,880 Speaker 1: he said I'm gonna play golf Christmas Eve morning. And 534 00:35:13,400 --> 00:35:16,640 Speaker 1: I just gotta tell you something Alexis, trust Chuck, you're married, 535 00:35:17,160 --> 00:35:19,520 Speaker 1: you have I still call him a baby. I know 536 00:35:19,640 --> 00:35:24,080 Speaker 1: he's not a baby anymore. On Christmas and Christmas Eve, 537 00:35:24,239 --> 00:35:29,359 Speaker 1: those are big family times. People come over, people have dinner, 538 00:35:29,440 --> 00:35:32,960 Speaker 1: and that's exactly what Lacy was planning. Alexis, I've seen 539 00:35:33,000 --> 00:35:36,280 Speaker 1: the inside of her home there on Cavina in Modesto. 540 00:35:36,719 --> 00:35:40,200 Speaker 1: She hid it. It was a small home. She hid 541 00:35:40,280 --> 00:35:43,560 Speaker 1: it decorated. I could tell she did it herself. It 542 00:35:43,760 --> 00:35:47,920 Speaker 1: was beautiful and she had been working on the whole dinner, 543 00:35:48,160 --> 00:35:52,360 Speaker 1: the holiday, the everything. There is no way in h 544 00:35:52,600 --> 00:35:56,400 Speaker 1: double l he was gonna go out and go fishing 545 00:35:56,560 --> 00:35:59,960 Speaker 1: for hours on end when she needed him at home 546 00:36:00,200 --> 00:36:02,759 Speaker 1: to get ready for all the festivities. Exactly. I mean 547 00:36:02,880 --> 00:36:05,520 Speaker 1: you can see you've seen in the pictures the dining 548 00:36:05,600 --> 00:36:08,279 Speaker 1: room table was set already for the dinner that they 549 00:36:08,320 --> 00:36:11,399 Speaker 1: were having the next day. She had planned everything meticulously. 550 00:36:11,719 --> 00:36:14,600 Speaker 1: And she also was out with him the night before. 551 00:36:14,680 --> 00:36:18,879 Speaker 1: On the twenty third, they went to her sister's place 552 00:36:19,040 --> 00:36:23,440 Speaker 1: and Scott got a haircut, like everything was so normal 553 00:36:23,640 --> 00:36:29,440 Speaker 1: and so Christmas Eve, and then she disappeared. Guys, I 554 00:36:29,600 --> 00:36:33,080 Speaker 1: earlier was going to play from ABC twenty twenty because 555 00:36:33,080 --> 00:36:35,719 Speaker 1: I want you to hear Lacy's mom, Sharon Roche. Here's 556 00:36:35,719 --> 00:36:41,000 Speaker 1: another problem for trial Ron Gransky. Lacy's surrogate dad has 557 00:36:41,040 --> 00:36:46,800 Speaker 1: passed away. So whatever Scott Peterson told him that morning 558 00:36:47,360 --> 00:36:52,840 Speaker 1: has been preserved through a court reporter and through this 559 00:36:53,000 --> 00:36:55,880 Speaker 1: nine one one call. That is an issue when you 560 00:36:56,000 --> 00:36:59,880 Speaker 1: have to retry an old case. Witnesses pass away witness 561 00:37:00,080 --> 00:37:02,919 Speaker 1: this movie can't find them, you can't find evidence. It's 562 00:37:02,960 --> 00:37:07,200 Speaker 1: an uphelled task. Is this guy gonna walk free? Now? 563 00:37:07,320 --> 00:37:10,960 Speaker 1: Take a listen to twenty twenty. This is Sharon Rocha speaking. 564 00:37:11,520 --> 00:37:13,400 Speaker 1: The last time I saw Lacy, she and I were 565 00:37:13,400 --> 00:37:15,000 Speaker 1: sitting inside my side and Scott was sitting on the 566 00:37:15,040 --> 00:37:19,120 Speaker 1: floor and we were watching TV, and she said the 567 00:37:19,160 --> 00:37:20,759 Speaker 1: baby was kicking, so I put my hand on her 568 00:37:20,760 --> 00:37:23,680 Speaker 1: stomach because I'd never felt him kick. She leaned over 569 00:37:23,719 --> 00:37:25,240 Speaker 1: to me and she said, Mom, she says Scott doesn't 570 00:37:25,239 --> 00:37:27,120 Speaker 1: like to do this. She said, I'm asked him to 571 00:37:27,719 --> 00:37:31,279 Speaker 1: feel my stomach when when the baby kicks, and he 572 00:37:31,440 --> 00:37:35,880 Speaker 1: never wants to touch my stomach. That really really bothered me, 573 00:37:35,920 --> 00:37:39,040 Speaker 1: And that was the last time I saw her. It 574 00:37:39,239 --> 00:37:42,560 Speaker 1: seems as if Lacy had planned all along to have children, 575 00:37:42,680 --> 00:37:48,560 Speaker 1: and that was understood going into it. But if you 576 00:37:48,840 --> 00:37:54,920 Speaker 1: analyze their marriage, seems that when she got pregnant with Connor, 577 00:37:56,560 --> 00:38:01,239 Speaker 1: things started going sideways. Boy, they really did. Least of 578 00:38:01,360 --> 00:38:05,840 Speaker 1: all the sex relationship he started with an unassuming single woman, 579 00:38:06,320 --> 00:38:11,600 Speaker 1: Amber Fry, not his first affair behind Lacey's back by far, 580 00:38:12,320 --> 00:38:15,160 Speaker 1: but seemingly the one that was the most important, because 581 00:38:15,200 --> 00:38:18,719 Speaker 1: it was during his sex affair with her that his 582 00:38:18,920 --> 00:38:23,520 Speaker 1: wife goes missing found dead. Was as shore there at 583 00:38:23,520 --> 00:38:28,040 Speaker 1: San Francisco Bay. To you, Bobby Chicom, former special agent 584 00:38:28,160 --> 00:38:33,480 Speaker 1: FBI screenwriter Criminal Minds, how significant is that Peterson changed 585 00:38:33,560 --> 00:38:36,440 Speaker 1: his alibi from golfing. He told more than one person 586 00:38:36,560 --> 00:38:38,799 Speaker 1: that that day he had been out golfing that morning 587 00:38:39,200 --> 00:38:43,600 Speaker 1: to fishing at San Francisco Bay. How significant is it 588 00:38:43,719 --> 00:38:47,560 Speaker 1: that her body washes up from the waters where he's 589 00:38:47,600 --> 00:38:52,320 Speaker 1: gone fishing, Bobby, hugely significant. I mean, they lived hours away. 590 00:38:52,400 --> 00:38:54,800 Speaker 1: There was no reason for him to be there on 591 00:38:54,920 --> 00:38:57,600 Speaker 1: that particular day, and he just happens to make the 592 00:38:57,719 --> 00:39:00,320 Speaker 1: excuse or the story that he was there where his 593 00:39:00,360 --> 00:39:04,160 Speaker 1: wife's body ultimately wound up. I spent four weeks searching 594 00:39:04,239 --> 00:39:07,040 Speaker 1: that day for Lacy's head, her hands, and her feet 595 00:39:07,040 --> 00:39:09,359 Speaker 1: which were missing from her body when she washed up, 596 00:39:09,680 --> 00:39:12,800 Speaker 1: And I was involved with the detectives there, and you know, 597 00:39:12,920 --> 00:39:15,440 Speaker 1: it was so puzzling on why he would pick that 598 00:39:15,719 --> 00:39:19,160 Speaker 1: place of all places you could go to fish in 599 00:39:19,320 --> 00:39:22,120 Speaker 1: that whole area, and you live hours away and you 600 00:39:22,360 --> 00:39:26,879 Speaker 1: just buy a new boat. Why that area that's significant? Hey, 601 00:39:27,120 --> 00:39:28,799 Speaker 1: I want you to tell me that one more time. 602 00:39:29,600 --> 00:39:32,759 Speaker 1: Tell me about your involvement. My guide. The FBI Guide 603 00:39:32,760 --> 00:39:34,640 Speaker 1: team was called up to Richmond Bay in the area 604 00:39:34,640 --> 00:39:37,640 Speaker 1: of San Francisco Bay where Lacy's body. Lacy and Kinder 605 00:39:37,680 --> 00:39:41,120 Speaker 1: were found because there were significant portions of her body missing, 606 00:39:41,920 --> 00:39:44,040 Speaker 1: namely her head, her hands, and her feet. They had 607 00:39:44,080 --> 00:39:47,160 Speaker 1: evidence to support a theory that said weights were tied 608 00:39:47,200 --> 00:39:49,439 Speaker 1: around her neck, her wrists, and her ankles, and over 609 00:39:49,520 --> 00:39:51,200 Speaker 1: the course of the months that she was in the water, 610 00:39:51,480 --> 00:39:55,160 Speaker 1: the tide action worked on those loose joints in the wrists, ankle, 611 00:39:55,239 --> 00:39:57,640 Speaker 1: the net and ultimately a storm blue through the night 612 00:39:57,719 --> 00:40:00,640 Speaker 1: before they washed up on the shore and storm book 613 00:40:00,680 --> 00:40:03,800 Speaker 1: are free from those from the bindings, in effect the 614 00:40:03,880 --> 00:40:06,680 Speaker 1: weak points of the body and anatomically, and so we 615 00:40:06,840 --> 00:40:10,080 Speaker 1: were charged with going down and finding the head, hand, 616 00:40:10,160 --> 00:40:13,759 Speaker 1: and seat because there was evidence in scott stories offer 617 00:40:13,880 --> 00:40:16,440 Speaker 1: that he had made homemade weights, and the theory was 618 00:40:16,760 --> 00:40:18,879 Speaker 1: he had tied away to each hand, to each foot, 619 00:40:18,880 --> 00:40:21,799 Speaker 1: and to the neck to keep us submerged, and which 620 00:40:21,880 --> 00:40:24,280 Speaker 1: is something I had found in my work previous and previously, 621 00:40:24,800 --> 00:40:27,560 Speaker 1: and so we were charged with going and finding of 622 00:40:27,719 --> 00:40:31,640 Speaker 1: the remaining pieces of racy and respect for weeks doing it. 623 00:40:32,760 --> 00:40:38,000 Speaker 1: Tell me and all the listeners about the San Francisco 624 00:40:38,120 --> 00:40:40,800 Speaker 1: Bay guys, for those of you just joining us, the 625 00:40:42,200 --> 00:40:45,319 Speaker 1: penalty phase and the Scott payous and murder conventions has 626 00:40:45,640 --> 00:40:50,480 Speaker 1: been reversed. There's a chance the actual conviction itself may 627 00:40:50,560 --> 00:40:53,759 Speaker 1: be reversed. But I just want it very clear. The 628 00:40:53,920 --> 00:40:57,600 Speaker 1: reality is, when you have to retry the penalty phase, 629 00:40:58,320 --> 00:41:01,520 Speaker 1: you might as well put on the entire case because 630 00:41:01,560 --> 00:41:04,800 Speaker 1: you want your jury to hear it all. And that's 631 00:41:05,000 --> 00:41:09,239 Speaker 1: what we're talking about right now, the fact that this 632 00:41:09,480 --> 00:41:15,880 Speaker 1: case may have to be retried in soul to ye, 633 00:41:16,040 --> 00:41:20,400 Speaker 1: Bobby Chico, could you describe those choppy waters of the 634 00:41:20,400 --> 00:41:23,880 Speaker 1: San Francisco Bay where Lacy had been thrown. Yeah, it 635 00:41:24,040 --> 00:41:26,440 Speaker 1: was a it was fairly shallow. It was only six 636 00:41:26,480 --> 00:41:29,000 Speaker 1: and ten feet of water um and there's some evidence 637 00:41:29,200 --> 00:41:31,680 Speaker 1: on the body when it was recovered that there at 638 00:41:31,760 --> 00:41:34,400 Speaker 1: least partially at low tide, the body may have been 639 00:41:34,400 --> 00:41:35,960 Speaker 1: out of parts of her body may have been out 640 00:41:35,960 --> 00:41:38,400 Speaker 1: of the water, suggested to the sun um. And there 641 00:41:38,480 --> 00:41:41,200 Speaker 1: was tidal action. So the tide rose and fell in 642 00:41:41,320 --> 00:41:43,920 Speaker 1: that area, and so it was a common fishing ground. 643 00:41:44,000 --> 00:41:46,399 Speaker 1: It was shallow. People did a lot of fishing there 644 00:41:46,440 --> 00:41:49,640 Speaker 1: and she was in the water several months. And through 645 00:41:49,719 --> 00:41:53,080 Speaker 1: that action of rising and falling with the tide um 646 00:41:53,200 --> 00:41:57,160 Speaker 1: the theory that the the the wrists and ankles ultimately 647 00:41:57,239 --> 00:42:01,719 Speaker 1: weakened from the weights and that storms broke them free. 648 00:42:02,280 --> 00:42:05,400 Speaker 1: Because when m Lacy's undecom moost body, fortunate is the 649 00:42:05,440 --> 00:42:07,919 Speaker 1: most bodies watched up. It was missing the hands, the seat, 650 00:42:07,960 --> 00:42:10,440 Speaker 1: and the head um. And you know, we searched for 651 00:42:10,600 --> 00:42:12,520 Speaker 1: a month with many many divers in the water. We 652 00:42:12,840 --> 00:42:15,400 Speaker 1: would have lunch, often with Leaky's mom and members of 653 00:42:15,440 --> 00:42:18,120 Speaker 1: a family um when we broke for lunch um and 654 00:42:18,680 --> 00:42:22,239 Speaker 1: and you know, we were unfortunately unsuccessful in locating us. 655 00:42:22,960 --> 00:42:26,319 Speaker 1: That is certainly something to keep you awake at night 656 00:42:26,480 --> 00:42:31,560 Speaker 1: thinking of your child body out in the San Francisco 657 00:42:31,640 --> 00:42:36,920 Speaker 1: Bay with all the fishing boats and the unborn baby 658 00:42:37,000 --> 00:42:41,959 Speaker 1: Connor as well. We wait as justice unfalls. Yancy Grace 659 00:42:42,200 --> 00:42:44,399 Speaker 1: rib Story signing off goodbye friend,