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Speaker 1: Hey, welcome to Weird House Cinema Rewind. This is Rob Lamb,

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Speaker 1: and hey, it's here. Halloween season is here, and it

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Speaker 1: begins today with this Rewind episode from last year. This

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Speaker 1: is going to be our look at the 1977 Mexican

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Speaker 1: cult classic, Alucarda. It is terrific. It is a real

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Speaker 1: favorite of mine. It was a lot of fun to

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Speaker 1: cover it last year. And if you didn't catch it,

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Speaker 1: if you're not familiar with this film, or maybe you're

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Speaker 1: a fan of this film and you just want to

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Speaker 1: hear our take on it, Well, it's a great time

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Speaker 1: to dive into it. So I hope you enjoy it,

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Speaker 1: and I hope you enjoy all of the new Halloween

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Speaker 1: content that is coming straight at you starting tomorrow.

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Speaker 2: Welcome to Stuff to Blow Your Mind, a production of iHeartRadio.

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Speaker 1: Hey, welcome to Weird House Cinema. This is Rob Lamb.

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Speaker 3: And this is Joe McCormick.

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Speaker 1: And in today's episode of Weird House Cinema, we're going

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Speaker 1: to return once more to the wild world of Mexican

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Speaker 1: horror to consider a film and a filmmaker often celebrated

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Speaker 1: as one of its true greats. We'll be discussing the

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Speaker 1: 1977 cult classic Alucarda, also known as Alucarda, the Daughter

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Speaker 1: of Darkness, directed by Juan Lopez Montezuma. While not well

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Speaker 1: received by mainstream Mexican audiences at the time, it has

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Speaker 1: become an obvious cult classic, a midnight movie. It's been

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Speaker 1: championed by the likes of Guillermo del Toro, David J. Scull,

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Speaker 1: Michael Weldon, just to name a few. This is one

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Speaker 1: you poke around online and you can see folks are

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Speaker 1: constantly discovering and rediscovering Alucarda. And everyone seems to be

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Speaker 1: blown away by it when they encounter it.

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Speaker 3: I think it's exactly the kind of film ripe for

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Speaker 3: this sort of rediscovery and, I don't know, late positive

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Speaker 3: reception because of the different textures that it gets into,

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Speaker 3: a part of it feels like an art film, you know,

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Speaker 3: it has some really, uh, interesting writing. That's not a

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Speaker 3: writing and performance that is, uh, you know, not just

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Speaker 3: going through the standard horror tropes, but then there is

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Speaker 3: also a lot of just standard horror exploitation content and

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Speaker 3: the way they blend together is, uh, unusual and interesting.

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Speaker 3: It it's, almost an intellectual film, but then it's also

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Speaker 3: just a, uh, you know, frenzied, uh, get naked with

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Speaker 3: the devil kind of thing.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah. It, this film, it's a lot of things.

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Speaker 1: As we'll discuss, there's definitely a strong European Gothic horror

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Speaker 1: element to it. Um, though to be clear, it is,

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Speaker 1: it is set and filmed in Mexico. Uh, and then

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Speaker 1: there is also a strong avant-garde surrealist element to it. And, uh,

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Speaker 1: all of these things kind of mix together, uh, As

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Speaker 1: the name suggests, Alucarda, which spelled backwards is a Dracula.

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Speaker 1: This is certainly a vampire film.

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Speaker 3: Not just the Dracula, a Dracula.

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Speaker 1: A Dracula, yeah. Or, you know, it's the feminine version

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Speaker 1: of Alucard, I guess. But yeah, so it's certainly a

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Speaker 1: vampire film, or at least a film with a vampire

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Speaker 1: in it. But it's also a lesbian love story. It's

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Speaker 1: a smoldering criticism of organized religion and just a delirious

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Speaker 1: fever dream of blasphemous horror.

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Speaker 3: Certainly blasphemous, uh, is an interesting lesbian love story is

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Speaker 3: I don't, I wonder about the criticism of organized religion.

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Speaker 3: That is one of the weirdest themes, uh, realized in

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Speaker 3: the film because, uh, we were sort of talking about

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Speaker 3: this off mic. I would say the middle stretch of

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Speaker 3: the movie is strongly anti-clerical and it sets up the

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Speaker 3: Catholic authorities, the priests and the, and some of the nuns.

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Speaker 3: as almost the villains of the movie. They're depicted as

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Speaker 3: cruel and sadistic and superstitious in these scenes with self-flagellation

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Speaker 3: and the torture of Justine. But then there's a very

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Speaker 3: strange turn where essentially all of these mad clerics that

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Speaker 3: are being set up as the villains in the middle

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Speaker 3: of the movie are vindicated and proven right.

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Speaker 1: Well, to a certain extent.

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Speaker 3: To a certain extent. And then it's kind of like, wait, what? Like,

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Speaker 3: the character who the doctor character who comes in to

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Speaker 3: criticize what they're doing to these poor girls is ultimately

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Speaker 3: humbled for his naive view of not believing that the

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Speaker 3: devil is real and will turn nuns into zombies.

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Speaker 1: Well, this will be interesting to discuss. I would argue

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Speaker 1: that the clerical side of things, they're never redeemed in

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Speaker 1: this picture, I think. I think they're essentially villains throughout.

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Speaker 1: But I don't know. This is the great thing about

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Speaker 1: this film is there's a lot of room for discussion

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Speaker 1: in I.

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Speaker 3: Don't know if the main clarity, I mean, certainly like

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Speaker 3: Father Lazaro and stuff. I don't know if they're ever

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Speaker 3: made to look nice in the end, but they are

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Speaker 3: sort of proven right. Like their worldview was the correct

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Speaker 3: one in the end.

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Speaker 1: To a certain extent. Well, we'll get back to this.

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Speaker 1: But I think one way to think about the film

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Speaker 1: is to certainly compare it to Ken Russell's 1971 masterpiece,

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Speaker 1: The Devils, which of course starred Vanessa Redgrave and Oliver Reed.

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Speaker 1: Like this film, The Devils is often sometimes thrown under

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Speaker 1: the broad sub-genre categorization of non-sploitation cinema. It's a big tent, non-sploitation.

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Speaker 1: I mean, it's a small tent in some ways, but

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Speaker 1: a big tent in others. So other so-called non-sploitation films

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Speaker 1: often center around explosions of sexuality, madness, and violence in

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Speaker 1: a convent setting. But in other cases... the sleazier exploitation

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Speaker 1: elements are more up front and center. And when nunsploitation

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Speaker 1: is referenced, that's generally the sort of picture we think of, right?

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Speaker 1: You know, something a little more purely scandalous without any

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Speaker 1: kind of serious message wrapped up in the offering. Yeah.

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Speaker 3: I mean, to the extent that there is a serious message,

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Speaker 3: I think these movies are usually concerned mostly with sexual

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Speaker 3: repression and that they will Feature a lot of, you know,

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Speaker 3: habit ripping by the third act. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: And The Devils is certainly that sort of picture. But

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Speaker 1: in The Devils, all of the conflict emerges from this

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Speaker 1: sexual repression. So we end up with, you know, mass hysteria,

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Speaker 1: murder and madness and oppression. And sexual repression is like

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Speaker 1: the root cause of everything. Just to simplify a great film.

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Speaker 1: In this movie, however, as we've already been alluding to, yes,

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Speaker 1: there is sexual repression and just general oppression from the church.

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Speaker 1: But we also come to learn that, oh, yeah, the

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Speaker 1: devil is apparently real. The God, to some extent or another,

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Speaker 1: is also real. All these supernatural forces are in play.

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Speaker 1: And then, therefore, how does that change our interpretation of

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Speaker 1: madness and mass hysteria?

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Speaker 3: Not just God and the devil, but pyrokinesis and zombies

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Speaker 3: and vampirism, like a lot of stuff gets thrown in

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Speaker 3: at the end there.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. And, and also the, the vision of God that

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Speaker 1: we see in this picture is, is at the very

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Speaker 1: least a sterner God, uh, more of an old Testament

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Speaker 1: vengeance God, uh, as opposed to sort of like the, um,

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Speaker 1: benevolent grandfather power that is generally more in play in

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Speaker 1: some of your Gothic horrors, where it's like, oh, the

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Speaker 1: power of God there is here to serve as like

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Speaker 1: a massive battery for the crucifix that you use to

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Speaker 1: ward off the vampires. That's right.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, the power of God in many of these other

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Speaker 3: stories is there to save the protagonists at the end,

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Speaker 3: to help and to save. Here, to the extent that

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Speaker 3: God's power is made manifest, it is, I think, only

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Speaker 3: a punishing power.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. If anything, it's like God is real. The devil

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Speaker 1: is real. These two forces are in opposition. And then

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Speaker 1: humanity is just ground to a pulp between these two

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Speaker 1: opposing forces.

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Speaker 4: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: And that may ultimately be the central message of the movie.

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Speaker 1: But again, this is a film that is going to

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Speaker 1: lend itself well to varying interpretations because it ultimately presents

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Speaker 1: kind of a kaleidoscope image of things, as we'll discuss.

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Speaker 1: All right, I don't have an elevator pitch for this one.

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Speaker 1: I don't know if you have something kindling there, Joe.

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Speaker 3: Well, not one that easily works just as text, but

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Speaker 3: I am imagining a kind of quick cut in a

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Speaker 3: trailer that I would put together for this film. And

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Speaker 3: it would be Alucardus saying the line, do you know

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Speaker 3: how small creatures love each other? I'll show you. And

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Speaker 3: then it just cuts to everything being on fire.

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Speaker 1: That's good, that's good. All right, well, let's go ahead

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Speaker 1: and listen to just a little bit of the trailer

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Speaker 1: audio for this picture. Not the full trailer, I think,

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Speaker 1: and this is, I believe, going to be the Spanish-language trailer.

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Speaker 1: As we'll discuss, though, this movie was filmed in English

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Speaker 1: and then dubbed into Spanish. Alucarda.

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Speaker 4: God the Father commands thee.

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Speaker 1: God the Son commands thee.

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Speaker 4: God the Holy Ghost commands thee.

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Speaker 3: No!

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Speaker 4: Con Claudio Brooke. David Silva. Tina Romero. Susana Camini. Adriana Roel.

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Speaker 4: Tina French. All right.

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Speaker 2: Well, if you would like to watch.

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Speaker 1: Alucarda before proceeding with this episode or rewind, All right. Well,

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Speaker 1: if you would like to watch Alucarda before proceeding with

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Speaker 1: this episode or rewatch it, well, there are at least

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Speaker 1: a couple of main ways to view it. I initially

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Speaker 1: watched it on the Mondo Macabro DVD, which has been

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Speaker 1: out for a while now. They recently put out another

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Speaker 1: one of Montezuma's films, The Mansion of Madness, on Blu-ray.

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Speaker 1: But as far as I know, and I was checking

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Speaker 1: in a little bit throughout the year. There's no word

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Speaker 1: on Alucarda also getting the Blu-ray treatment anytime soon, but

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Speaker 1: obviously there's hope that that would come to pass. The

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Speaker 1: DVD is really solid, though. Film quality is perfectly fine,

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Speaker 1: and it features some nice extras. And as of this recording,

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Speaker 1: you can also stream Alucarda via the Excellent Criterion channel.

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Speaker 1: It's a currently featured as part of their kin film

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Speaker 1: non-sploitation playlist which includes some other great films including the

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Speaker 1: devils and so as i was re-watching parts of the

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Speaker 1: film while working on notes i re-watched it on criterion

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Speaker 1: channel and the film quality is the same as on

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Speaker 1: the dvd.

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Speaker 3: I also watched it on the criterion channel stream uh

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Speaker 3: that that was a good upload uh i will say

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Speaker 3: so you you said you've got the mondo macabro dvd.

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Speaker 1: Yes or i rented it from videodrome here in atlanta

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Speaker 1: I see.

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Speaker 3: I've got one I haven't watched yet, but I've got

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Speaker 3: a Nonsploitation Blu-ray from Mondo Macabro for a different film

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Speaker 3: called Satanico Pandemonium.

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Speaker 1: Oh, that's another one. That's another title you frequently see

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Speaker 1: in discussion of Nonsploitation, but I have not seen it myself.

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Speaker 3: I haven't seen it yet, so I can't vouch for

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Speaker 3: it either way. But yeah, that's by the same producer.

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Speaker 3: So I think they may have put out a number

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Speaker 3: of kind of... Wild Nun films.

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Speaker 1: It's great to see Criterion Collection and Mondo Macabro coming

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Speaker 1: together for the same films. It's not always the case.

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Speaker 1: All right. Well, let's go ahead and jump in to

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Speaker 1: a discussion of the folks involved in this picture, starting

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Speaker 1: at the top with Juan Lopez Montezuma, the director. He

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Speaker 1: also has story and screenplay credit. Producer And I'm not

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Speaker 1: sure which one he is, but he also has a

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Speaker 1: big role as a monk in this. One of the

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Speaker 1: sort of henchmen monks that run around, uh, fetching things,

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Speaker 1: tying people up. That's sort of, you know, typical non-sploitation

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Speaker 1: monk business.

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Speaker 3: Those guys are supposed to be monks. The guys in

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Speaker 3: the black robes with the hoods.

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Speaker 1: I think so.

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Speaker 3: Yeah. Uh, that's so weird because they, Nothing about them

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Speaker 3: seems like they're of a religious order. They are henchmen,

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Speaker 3: as you said. They're like the mechanics of the film.

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Speaker 3: They're the ones who have to lift things and carry

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Speaker 3: them around or tie somebody up.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I would say that, as is often the case,

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Speaker 1: this movie's probably not good as primary research for how

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Speaker 1: monasteries and convents work. It has a lot to say

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Speaker 1: about Catholicism, but it is not a good primary source

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Speaker 1: for information on Catholicism. Montezuma lived 1931 through 1995, Mexican actor, producer, writer,

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Speaker 1: TV and radio personality and director, best known for a

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Speaker 1: trio of 1970s horror films that really challenged just what

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Speaker 1: a Mexican horror film could be. He'd worked as an

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Speaker 1: actor previously, mostly on the stage, but also started a

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Speaker 1: long running Mexico City radio program called Panorama de Jazz.

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Speaker 1: I don't think he stayed on it long, but he

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Speaker 1: started it and it apparently lasted for a very long time.

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Speaker 1: kind of an institution. He also served as a, I

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Speaker 1: couldn't find any clips of this, but he was apparently

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Speaker 1: a sort of horror host on TV as well. Oh, cool.

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Speaker 1: He would present, I think it was like a late

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Speaker 1: night thing, and he would present old silent horror movies.

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Speaker 1: And there's an extra on the Mondo disc where I

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Speaker 1: think it's an interview with Guillermo del Toro from, I

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Speaker 1: want to say like 2002 or something, a good bit younger.

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Speaker 1: But he reflects on this. He reflects fondly on watching

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Speaker 1: Montezuma on this television program, presenting movies like Nosferatu. So

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Speaker 1: Montezuma became involved in avant-garde Mexican theater after this. He

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Speaker 1: became a collaborator with the legendary Alejandro Jodorowsky, serving as

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Speaker 1: producer on his 1968 film Fando en Lis, as well

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Speaker 1: as his famous 1970 metaphysical Western El Copo. And then

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Speaker 1: he set out to make his own horror films, which

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Speaker 1: certainly stand as fine examples of Mexican horror, But they

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Speaker 1: were also Montezuma's rebellion against mainstream film and established horror

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Speaker 1: cinema in Mexico as well. He was not a fan

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Speaker 1: of traditional Mexican horror cinema, stating in one interview, quote,

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Speaker 1: The Mexican tradition for such films is very simplistic and

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Speaker 1: very conformist, in my opinion, in spite of their surface delirium.

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Speaker 1: I don't really like them very much.

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Speaker 3: Surface delirium.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I found this really interesting. And I guess as

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Speaker 1: with most broad statements like this, you can certainly point

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Speaker 1: to counterexamples from Mexican horror cinema and say, well, you know,

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Speaker 1: this is not mere surface delirium. Maybe it goes a

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Speaker 1: bit deeper. But I get what he's saying. Like, if

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Speaker 1: you look at, say, you look at an El Santo

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Speaker 1: monster movie, and yes, there are these delirious elements on

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Speaker 1: the surface of things, but the basic structure is going

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Speaker 1: to be generally formulaic. There's nothing subversive there. There's no

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Speaker 1: surprise in the outcome. And so what he clearly sets

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Speaker 1: out to do in his films, Montezuma that is, is

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Speaker 1: to create a true depth of delirium. So madness from

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Speaker 1: bottom to top.

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Speaker 3: Not shallow depravity, but deep depravity.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah. Yeah.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I guess I can see what he's saying, that

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Speaker 3: a lot of these older Mexican horror films, while they

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Speaker 3: might have very weird sights and sounds or some strange

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Speaker 3: things going on, ultimately the story is going to be

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Speaker 3: somewhat predictable and its values are conventional.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah.

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Speaker 3: I don't know if I agree with that, but I

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Speaker 3: understand what he's saying.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. And again, I think it's a criticism that is

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Speaker 1: going to apply to certain films more than others. But

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Speaker 1: it does seem to be like a motivating principle for him.

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Speaker 1: And when you look at his films, you can see like, yeah,

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Speaker 1: this is a guy that's trying to really make the

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Speaker 1: weirdness and the madness go from bottom to top. So

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Speaker 1: I was reading about this movie and Montezuma in general

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Speaker 1: in a book by Doyle Green called He's a film

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Speaker 1: critic and writer. The book is The Mexican Cinema of Darkness.

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Speaker 1: And he also points out that Mexican horror films, especially

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Speaker 1: lucha horror films, are big on telling rather than showing.

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Speaker 1: I think we can reflect on various examples where like

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Speaker 1: Santo is having a discussion with a scientist and they

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Speaker 1: lay out all the details. And so Montezuma is the opposite.

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Speaker 1: He would rather show you.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, well, I can see that in this film, actually.

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Speaker 3: This leans more on the other side. There's a lot

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Speaker 3: of stuff that does not hold your hand. I don't

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Speaker 3: know what's going on in some parts. I really don't

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Speaker 3: know why something happens sometimes or what it's supposed to mean.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and when there is an explanation, like when Father Lozaro...

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Speaker 1: describes what sort of demon he thinks they're dealing with.

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Speaker 1: It really has no impact on anything. Yeah.

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Speaker 3: Well, that almost seemed like a parody. I've got that

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Speaker 3: line written down from later on when he's like, oh, yeah,

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Speaker 3: it's a type six devil or something like that. Like

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Speaker 3: it almost seems like a parody of just the fussy

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Speaker 3: taxonomy of evil that the clerics are using here.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. So given all of this, it should come as

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Speaker 1: no surprise that Montezuma generally worked outside of the mainstream

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Speaker 1: Mexican film industry, at least in terms of financing and control.

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Speaker 1: He still worked with notable professionals in Mexican filmmaking and

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Speaker 1: apparently fiercely retained his own creative control over his visions.

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Speaker 1: So his first film was 1973's The Mansion of Madness,

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Speaker 1: released in the States and sometimes still referenced, listed in,

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Speaker 1: I think, in IMDb and also sometimes streamable under the

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Speaker 1: title Dr. Tarr's torture dungeon. It's based on Edgar Allen

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Speaker 1: Poe's The System of Dr. Tarr and Professor Feather, and

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Speaker 1: it tells the story of an asylum where the system

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Speaker 1: of soothing has been abandoned in favor of a new

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Speaker 1: system of, well, let's say a system of cruelty. And

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Speaker 1: we quickly come to realize that this is a case where, uh-oh,

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Speaker 1: the inmates are running the asylum now, and they're led

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Speaker 1: by someone going by the name, anyway, of Dr. Millard.

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Speaker 1: And this individual is played in the movie by Claudio Brooke,

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Speaker 1: who we'll be talking about here in a minute. This

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Speaker 1: film is perhaps more of a dark, surrealist comedy than

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Speaker 1: a pure horror picture, though it does have gothic horror elements.

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Speaker 1: I saw this a couple of years ago, rather liked it.

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Speaker 1: And this film, as with Alucardo, was shot in English.

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Speaker 3: This might be it. kind of strange comparison, but I,

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Speaker 3: though I haven't seen the movie, some of the clips

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Speaker 3: I have seen of Claudio Brooke in it, he a

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Speaker 3: bit reminds me of Graham Chapman from Monty Python.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 4: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: There's a lot of absurdity in it. Um, because he's,

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Speaker 1: you know, he ends up presenting himself initially as a,

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Speaker 1: maybe a revolutionary, um, uh doctor who's uh who's running

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Speaker 1: the asylum and then we quickly realize like no this

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Speaker 1: was a this is an inmate of the asylum who's

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Speaker 1: taken over and so there's a lot of toga wearing

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Speaker 1: that ensues uh wild monologues hysterical laughter and so forth

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Speaker 1: and he does have blonde hair which certainly uh in

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Speaker 1: that film which adds to the.

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Speaker 3: Experience kind of yeah shaggy blonde hair yeah We'll get

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Speaker 3: to more about Claudio Brooke in a minute, I'm sure,

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Speaker 3: but I am impressed with the range that he gets

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Speaker 3: to portray in Alucarda.

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Speaker 1: Oh, yes. As we'll discuss, this is a case where

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Speaker 1: he got to do a dual role and clearly had

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Speaker 1: a lot of fun with it.

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Speaker 3: Yeah. Hard to imagine two different parts more different. Yeah, yeah.

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Speaker 1: So Montezuma followed Manchin up with a Hollywood co-production, 1975's Mary, Mary,

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Speaker 1: Bloody Mary. I haven't seen this one, but it is

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Speaker 1: a modern erotic vampire film and also sort of a

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Speaker 1: giallo film starring Christina Ferreira, and featuring John Carradine in

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Speaker 1: a small role. It was also shot in English, and

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Speaker 1: it's also said to be quite good.

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Speaker 3: You know my taste for Jallo. I'm intrigued. I'll have

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Speaker 3: to give this a look up.

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Speaker 1: And then came Alucard, which we're talking about today. Montezuma's

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Speaker 1: best-remembered and most controversial film due to its comparatively racy

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Speaker 1: content and certainly its blasphemous themes. It draws on both

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Speaker 1: avant-garde cinema and European Gothic horror traditions. And I would

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Speaker 1: say just feels absolutely self-assured in its vision. We may

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Speaker 1: ponder and head scratch over what that vision ultimately is

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Speaker 1: and what he's trying to say, but it seems very

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Speaker 1: confident in its delivery. After these three big pictures, Montezuma's

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Speaker 1: output was a bit more limited. He directed a 1983

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Speaker 1: crime thriller titled To Kill a Stranger, which co-starred Dean

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Speaker 1: Stockwell and Donald Pleasence. And after that, his projects saw

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Speaker 1: even smaller audiences. There's 1986's Welcome, Maria, and 1994's The

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Speaker 1: Food of Fear. And at some point, he wanted to

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Speaker 1: do a follow-up to Alucarda, titled Alucarda Rises from the Tomb,

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Speaker 1: but that never came to fruition before his death in 1995.

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Speaker 1: As for other writers, let's see, there's Alexis Antita Uroyo.

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Speaker 1: These are the only screenplay credits on the databases I

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Speaker 1: was looking at. And then there's also Yolanda Lopez Montezuma.

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Speaker 1: also credited with a writer, also with no other credits.

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Speaker 1: I'm not sure if this is a relative or not,

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Speaker 1: just a name without much additional context. And then it's

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Speaker 1: also typically noted that this film is to some degree

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Speaker 1: based on the novel Carmilla by Sheridan Le Fanu, who

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Speaker 1: lived 1814 through 1873, Irish author who wrote 1872's Gothic

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Speaker 1: novella Carmilla, a foundational vampire novel and one that explores

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Speaker 1: a lesbian relationship with, I'm to understand, some amount of nuance.

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Speaker 1: I think I started reading this book, this novella at

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Speaker 1: some point, set it down and didn't pick it back up.

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Speaker 1: That's on me, not on the novella. But I can't

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Speaker 1: speak to it with much doubt because I haven't finished it.

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Speaker 3: But this is worth noting, a vampire novel that predates Dracula.

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Speaker 1: Yes, absolutely.

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Speaker 4: Yeah.

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Speaker 3: So Dracula wasn't the first, wasn't even the first big one.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, as we've discussed on the show before, Dracula as

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Speaker 1: a literary work is not as old as a lot

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Speaker 1: of people think it is, or may sort of casually

393
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Speaker 1: think of it as being. We often may, we just

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Speaker 1: lump Dracula in with Frankenstein when, in fact, Frankenstein is

395
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Speaker 1: an older work.

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Speaker 3: Yeah. One of the weird things we've talked about is

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Speaker 3: how Dracula was only a few decades old when Nosferatu,

398
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Speaker 3: the movie, was made. It's like adapting a movie today

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Speaker 3: from a novel published in the 90s.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, crazy. All right, let's talk about the cast here.

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Speaker 1: I'm going to, as I've done recently, I'm going to

402
00:23:12,109 --> 00:23:14,810
Speaker 1: stick with the idea that if your character is the

403
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Speaker 1: title of the film, even if you don't have top billing,

404
00:23:17,550 --> 00:23:19,870
Speaker 1: we're going to talk about you first. And so that's

405
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Speaker 1: going to be the case here with Alucardah. She is

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Speaker 1: played by Tina Romero, born 1949.

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Speaker 3: What a force of nature she is in this movie.

408
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Speaker 3: She is fantastic, and she is so scary, bringing lead-heavy

409
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Speaker 3: intensity in the eyes. She has this just burning stare

410
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Speaker 3: where you feel like she could literally set you on

411
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Speaker 3: fire with her eyes, and it turns out she can't.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah. It's just such a great performance, and she's

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Speaker 1: able to channel this feeling that, I mean, to a

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Speaker 1: certain extent, it is like she is a saint or

415
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Speaker 1: the inverse of a saint. You know, she has access

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Speaker 1: to different information about reality. Truth is shining through her.

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Speaker 1: And at times that truth may be like gentle and

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Speaker 1: reassuring and innocent. Other times it may be shocking and

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Speaker 1: horrifying and more than you can take. And and so, yeah,

420
00:24:20,470 --> 00:24:21,730
Speaker 1: I mean, you really have to see it, of course,

421
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Speaker 1: to to to really understand everything we're talking about here.

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Speaker 1: But but, yeah, she's not she's not like just a pure,

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Speaker 1: like evil character. It's not like, oh, it's like if

424
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Speaker 1: you think this is a demonic possession film and to

425
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Speaker 1: a certain extent it is. This is not a character

426
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Speaker 1: that is possessed by a demon and is snarling and

427
00:24:39,200 --> 00:24:42,660
Speaker 1: cussing and so forth. Exorcist style the whole time. Yeah.

428
00:24:43,230 --> 00:24:45,510
Speaker 3: You know, another thing I was mentioning to you off

429
00:24:45,550 --> 00:24:48,109
Speaker 3: mic that I think is really interesting about this performance,

430
00:24:48,890 --> 00:24:52,590
Speaker 3: I think Tina Romero was something like 26, 27 when

431
00:24:52,630 --> 00:24:56,470
Speaker 3: she made this film, but she really manages to pull

432
00:24:56,580 --> 00:25:03,160
Speaker 3: off a particular type of scary energy, which is like terrifying,

433
00:25:03,340 --> 00:25:08,700
Speaker 3: unhinged teenager energy. She's not just able to create a

434
00:25:08,880 --> 00:25:11,600
Speaker 3: scary presence with her facial expressions and all that, but

435
00:25:11,740 --> 00:25:16,179
Speaker 3: she she is scary in a particular way in the

436
00:25:16,240 --> 00:25:20,109
Speaker 3: way that like teenagers or young people can be scary

437
00:25:20,170 --> 00:25:22,790
Speaker 3: to old people. Do you know what I'm talking about?

438
00:25:23,070 --> 00:25:27,430
Speaker 1: Oh yeah. I know what you're talking about. Yeah. My

439
00:25:27,470 --> 00:25:30,629
Speaker 1: child is 13 now. So, and all their friends are

440
00:25:30,650 --> 00:25:35,439
Speaker 1: like 12 or 13 or 14. So yeah, I totally

441
00:25:35,480 --> 00:25:39,580
Speaker 1: get this vibe. Who are these creatures? Yeah.

442
00:25:40,470 --> 00:25:44,490
Speaker 3: Yeah, beyond just the direct threat of satanic magic being

443
00:25:44,550 --> 00:25:47,880
Speaker 3: invoked to burn your body or something, there is also

444
00:25:47,920 --> 00:25:50,840
Speaker 3: just this generational mysteriousness.

445
00:25:51,260 --> 00:25:54,880
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah. So we'll have a lot to say about

446
00:25:54,920 --> 00:25:57,320
Speaker 1: Tina Romero's performance. It's a dual role as well. She

447
00:25:57,340 --> 00:26:00,530
Speaker 1: also plays Alucarda's mother in the beginning, and she's just

448
00:26:00,590 --> 00:26:04,669
Speaker 1: terrific throughout. Now, the love interest for Alucarda is the

449
00:26:04,710 --> 00:26:09,700
Speaker 1: character Justine, played by Susanna Camini. I wasn't able to

450
00:26:09,740 --> 00:26:13,290
Speaker 1: find any data on this actress's age when she was

451
00:26:13,330 --> 00:26:16,430
Speaker 1: born and so forth. But she was in all three

452
00:26:16,510 --> 00:26:20,490
Speaker 1: of Montezuma's 1970s horror films, as well as To Kill

453
00:26:20,530 --> 00:26:23,470
Speaker 1: a Stranger. She was active through at least 86 or

454
00:26:23,510 --> 00:26:26,949
Speaker 1: perhaps 2007, depending on which movie database you're looking at.

455
00:26:27,880 --> 00:26:31,580
Speaker 1: And it's difficult to compare her performance to Romero's because

456
00:26:32,300 --> 00:26:36,540
Speaker 1: Alucarda is the title character and is such an intense character.

457
00:26:37,119 --> 00:26:39,960
Speaker 1: But Justine, who is based here, at least to a

458
00:26:39,960 --> 00:26:46,180
Speaker 1: certain extent, on Desaad's Justine, is an intentionally more subdued character. So,

459
00:26:46,240 --> 00:26:49,109
Speaker 1: you know, you can't—it's apples and oranges to a certain extent.

460
00:26:49,160 --> 00:26:52,369
Speaker 1: But I think Kamini does a fine job, and she

461
00:26:52,410 --> 00:26:54,730
Speaker 1: gets to shine in a different way during the final act.

462
00:26:55,130 --> 00:26:59,469
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's right. The character of Justine is more passive

463
00:26:59,550 --> 00:27:02,429
Speaker 3: and being pulled along by the magic of Alucarda.

464
00:27:02,710 --> 00:27:02,860
Speaker 2: Yeah.

465
00:27:03,900 --> 00:27:06,620
Speaker 1: All right, let's come back to Claudio Brooke then. Claudio

466
00:27:06,640 --> 00:27:10,420
Speaker 1: Brooke also has a dual role, a delightfully dual role

467
00:27:10,480 --> 00:27:15,240
Speaker 1: in this picture, playing both the rational Dr. Ozek and

468
00:27:15,270 --> 00:27:19,090
Speaker 1: a Romani hunchback who also may be a satyr and

469
00:27:19,130 --> 00:27:22,350
Speaker 1: may also be an agent of the devil or the

470
00:27:22,369 --> 00:27:24,649
Speaker 1: devil himself. It's unknown.

471
00:27:25,760 --> 00:27:28,940
Speaker 3: Maybe. I mean, he is a goat man in his

472
00:27:29,000 --> 00:27:30,820
Speaker 3: hunchback form. He's just a goat.

473
00:27:31,160 --> 00:27:31,400
Speaker 1: Yes.

474
00:27:31,460 --> 00:27:35,280
Speaker 3: Give him full Billy goat shaped beard. And, uh, yeah,

475
00:27:35,320 --> 00:27:37,220
Speaker 3: they're not, does he have horns almost?

476
00:27:37,960 --> 00:27:40,439
Speaker 1: Um, I, well, we don't really see, and there's hair,

477
00:27:40,690 --> 00:27:42,830
Speaker 1: there's at least hair going on, uh, there.

478
00:27:43,030 --> 00:27:43,149
Speaker 4: Yeah.

479
00:27:43,170 --> 00:27:45,550
Speaker 1: There's a, there's very curly hair. So if there are horns,

480
00:27:45,609 --> 00:27:46,869
Speaker 1: maybe they're underneath the curls.

481
00:27:47,190 --> 00:27:50,910
Speaker 3: The, the goat comparison in his human form is not subtle.

482
00:27:51,310 --> 00:27:55,040
Speaker 1: No. And is not a subtle performance. Um, yeah, for,

483
00:27:55,119 --> 00:27:58,119
Speaker 1: for fans of like mystery science theater and weird films,

484
00:27:58,160 --> 00:28:01,050
Speaker 1: this is kind of like, imagine if Torgo were played

485
00:28:01,109 --> 00:28:05,390
Speaker 1: by an award-winning actor, uh, that has essentially like classically

486
00:28:05,450 --> 00:28:09,520
Speaker 1: trained and, um, and highly regarded. Yeah. So, yeah, we've

487
00:28:09,560 --> 00:28:11,820
Speaker 1: talked about Claudio Brooke, at least in passing on the

488
00:28:11,840 --> 00:28:15,879
Speaker 1: show before fantastic actor of the golden age of Mexican cinema. Um,

489
00:28:17,080 --> 00:28:19,460
Speaker 1: He has a small role in The Devil's Reign, which

490
00:28:19,500 --> 00:28:22,780
Speaker 1: we briefly talked about, which we covered on the show before,

491
00:28:22,800 --> 00:28:24,820
Speaker 1: and we briefly talked about Claudio Brooke, but it's not

492
00:28:24,840 --> 00:28:27,700
Speaker 1: a very big part. But here, yeah, we get to

493
00:28:27,740 --> 00:28:30,440
Speaker 1: see him just do a whole lot more here. He

494
00:28:30,480 --> 00:28:32,980
Speaker 1: gets to play both sides of the gothic horror coin,

495
00:28:33,000 --> 00:28:37,560
Speaker 1: you know, the straight-laced protagonist and also an agent of chaos. Again,

496
00:28:37,680 --> 00:28:40,960
Speaker 1: Claudio Brooke really got to run wild in Montezuma's previous film,

497
00:28:41,030 --> 00:28:44,860
Speaker 1: The Mansion of Madness. And his other horror films, horror

498
00:28:45,020 --> 00:28:47,920
Speaker 1: and or sci-fi, and certainly in some cases lucha films,

499
00:28:48,050 --> 00:28:53,610
Speaker 1: included 62's Neutron, the atomic Superman versus the death robots.

500
00:28:53,890 --> 00:29:00,150
Speaker 1: 63's Neutron versus Dr. Carante. 63's Santo in the wax museum.

501
00:29:00,270 --> 00:29:03,860
Speaker 1: So yes, he did get to lock up with Santo.

502
00:29:03,880 --> 00:29:05,160
Speaker 1: I don't know if they actually lock up in it.

503
00:29:05,300 --> 00:29:06,960
Speaker 1: I haven't seen this one yet, but I'm excited to

504
00:29:07,020 --> 00:29:11,010
Speaker 1: at some point. He's in 1978's The Bees. And he's

505
00:29:11,050 --> 00:29:15,470
Speaker 1: also in Guillermo del Toro's Kronos from 1992. In that film,

506
00:29:16,810 --> 00:29:19,150
Speaker 1: del Toro fans might remember him. He plays the aging

507
00:29:19,550 --> 00:29:23,480
Speaker 1: Dieter de la Guardia, who is seeking the Kronos device

508
00:29:23,860 --> 00:29:25,220
Speaker 1: in order to prolong his life.

509
00:29:25,720 --> 00:29:28,120
Speaker 3: He's the villain, not the protagonist?

510
00:29:28,380 --> 00:29:32,220
Speaker 1: Yeah, he's the villain in that. His henchman slash, I believe,

511
00:29:32,220 --> 00:29:36,320
Speaker 1: son is Ron Perlman's character. And so he's constantly like

512
00:29:36,360 --> 00:29:38,460
Speaker 1: berating him and hitting him with a cane and like,

513
00:29:38,500 --> 00:29:39,700
Speaker 1: give me that cruelness device.

514
00:29:39,980 --> 00:29:40,240
Speaker 3: Yeah.

515
00:29:40,280 --> 00:29:43,020
Speaker 1: Okay. So Del Toro has, has heaped a lot of

516
00:29:43,060 --> 00:29:46,680
Speaker 1: praise on, on Claudio Brooke, um, uh, including that, uh,

517
00:29:46,740 --> 00:29:50,420
Speaker 1: I believe again, 2002 interview on the, the Mondo disc here, uh,

518
00:29:51,120 --> 00:29:53,220
Speaker 1: you know, pointing out that he had an almost mechanical

519
00:29:53,280 --> 00:29:56,550
Speaker 1: perfection in his craft, uh, something that he compared to

520
00:29:56,670 --> 00:29:59,770
Speaker 1: actors of the British school, uh, just a solid professional, uh,

521
00:30:00,340 --> 00:30:03,240
Speaker 1: Outside of a smattering of horror and lucha films, Claudio

522
00:30:03,260 --> 00:30:07,320
Speaker 1: was a collaborator of the avant-garde surrealist director Luis Bunel,

523
00:30:07,920 --> 00:30:11,219
Speaker 1: appearing in the 65 film Simon of the Desert and

524
00:30:11,240 --> 00:30:14,180
Speaker 1: 62's The Exterminating Angel, and I believe some others as

525
00:30:14,240 --> 00:30:18,420
Speaker 1: well from that director. He appeared in a variety of

526
00:30:18,540 --> 00:30:22,860
Speaker 1: major Golden Age Mexican productions, as well as international productions

527
00:30:22,960 --> 00:30:26,220
Speaker 1: like 76's Return of a Man Called Horse, 89's Romero,

528
00:30:26,240 --> 00:30:32,540
Speaker 1: 89's License to Kill, 1990's Revenge, that's a Tony Scott film,

529
00:30:33,040 --> 00:30:37,300
Speaker 1: and 1991's One Man's War. Also, like I say, this

530
00:30:37,340 --> 00:30:39,660
Speaker 1: is a guy who had some big roles. He played

531
00:30:39,700 --> 00:30:43,700
Speaker 1: Jesus Christ in at least one Mexican production. I think

532
00:30:43,720 --> 00:30:45,960
Speaker 1: it was a TV miniseries, that sort of thing. So

533
00:30:46,220 --> 00:30:50,600
Speaker 1: a major name in Mexico. And also, he had certainly

534
00:30:50,620 --> 00:30:52,560
Speaker 1: a fair amount of international prestige as well.

535
00:30:52,940 --> 00:30:55,120
Speaker 3: Wait, was the License to Kill he was in? That

536
00:30:55,160 --> 00:30:56,320
Speaker 3: was the James Bond movie?

537
00:30:56,380 --> 00:30:58,400
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, he's in License to Kill, which I have

538
00:30:58,440 --> 00:31:00,760
Speaker 1: not seen in so long. I don't know who he plays.

539
00:31:00,940 --> 00:31:05,600
Speaker 1: I imagine it's a relatively minor supporting character, but I

540
00:31:06,120 --> 00:31:07,160
Speaker 1: don't remember him in that.

541
00:31:07,520 --> 00:31:10,440
Speaker 3: That's the James Bond revenge movie, where he's not really

542
00:31:10,530 --> 00:31:13,450
Speaker 3: on an official mission, but he's on a revenge quest against,

543
00:31:13,670 --> 00:31:16,790
Speaker 3: I think it's Robert Davi playing a drug kingpin who

544
00:31:16,850 --> 00:31:18,690
Speaker 3: feeds Felix Leiter to a shark.

545
00:31:19,870 --> 00:31:22,270
Speaker 1: Yes, yes, this is the one. The main thing I

546
00:31:22,330 --> 00:31:27,670
Speaker 1: remember is Anthony Zerba is in that as well. Oh, yeah.

547
00:31:27,830 --> 00:31:30,510
Speaker 1: And gets blown up in an air compressor or something,

548
00:31:30,810 --> 00:31:34,230
Speaker 1: which was a pretty horrific scene at the time. Benicio

549
00:31:34,260 --> 00:31:36,300
Speaker 1: Del Toro is in that film as well, and I

550
00:31:36,320 --> 00:31:37,219
Speaker 1: don't remember him at all.

551
00:31:37,580 --> 00:31:41,700
Speaker 3: He's one of the villain's main henchmen. He gets gruesomely

552
00:31:41,780 --> 00:31:45,660
Speaker 3: thrown into a grinder that's like chopping up bricks of cocaine.

553
00:31:45,680 --> 00:31:49,030
Speaker 1: Oh, man. Yeah, it's been so long since I saw that,

554
00:31:49,050 --> 00:31:51,950
Speaker 1: probably a little too young. And I haven't seen it

555
00:31:52,010 --> 00:31:54,090
Speaker 1: since because it's a I remember being pretty gritty.

556
00:31:54,630 --> 00:31:56,290
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's been a while, but I think gritty is

557
00:31:56,310 --> 00:32:00,930
Speaker 3: the right word. It is famously a kind of nastier,

558
00:32:00,990 --> 00:32:03,000
Speaker 3: more down to earth James Bond than a lot of

559
00:32:03,040 --> 00:32:04,560
Speaker 3: other films of that period.

560
00:32:05,260 --> 00:32:08,220
Speaker 1: Oh, and I'll also mention that the character, Dr. Ozek,

561
00:32:08,280 --> 00:32:11,320
Speaker 1: has a daughter named Danelia. And this character is played

562
00:32:11,340 --> 00:32:13,830
Speaker 1: by actress Lily Garza, who would go on to be

563
00:32:13,870 --> 00:32:16,580
Speaker 1: an Ariel Award winning TV director. All right, let's get

564
00:32:16,600 --> 00:32:20,600
Speaker 1: into some of the more supporting characters here. We also

565
00:32:20,680 --> 00:32:24,340
Speaker 1: have the character of Father Lazaro, who we've already mentioned

566
00:32:24,380 --> 00:32:27,640
Speaker 1: a little bit, played by David Silva, who lived 1917

567
00:32:27,640 --> 00:32:33,600
Speaker 1: through 1976, a one-time Ariel Award winner for 1947's Champion

568
00:32:33,640 --> 00:32:36,380
Speaker 1: Without a Crown. And speaking of the Ariel Awards, I

569
00:32:36,400 --> 00:32:40,100
Speaker 1: think I neglected to mention earlier that Tina Romero also

570
00:32:40,700 --> 00:32:43,220
Speaker 1: was at least nominated, I'm sorry, for an Ariel Award

571
00:32:43,280 --> 00:32:48,730
Speaker 1: for 1981's The Great Waters. The aerial awards are essentially

572
00:32:48,770 --> 00:32:53,090
Speaker 1: like the Oscars of Mexican cinema. So anyway, David Silva

573
00:32:54,670 --> 00:32:58,910
Speaker 1: won the award in 1947. And it was nominated three

574
00:32:58,950 --> 00:33:02,060
Speaker 1: more times, including for his role as the colonel in

575
00:33:02,160 --> 00:33:06,040
Speaker 1: 1972's El Topo. I've seen El Topo. It's been so

576
00:33:06,060 --> 00:33:07,880
Speaker 1: many years, I don't remember his character.

577
00:33:07,900 --> 00:33:08,940
Speaker 3: Yeah, I don't either.

578
00:33:09,960 --> 00:33:13,460
Speaker 1: But he was an opera singer, an actor, shows up

579
00:33:13,500 --> 00:33:16,520
Speaker 1: in a number of different bits of weird cinema. He's

580
00:33:16,740 --> 00:33:20,700
Speaker 1: in The Mansion of Madness. He's in Jodorowsky's Holy Mountain

581
00:33:20,740 --> 00:33:24,720
Speaker 1: from 73. He was in 1962's The Brainiac, which we

582
00:33:24,760 --> 00:33:26,240
Speaker 1: previously discussed on the show.

583
00:33:27,830 --> 00:33:28,630
Speaker 3: Who is he?

584
00:33:28,870 --> 00:33:30,850
Speaker 1: He's one of the inspectors. I don't know if he

585
00:33:30,870 --> 00:33:35,210
Speaker 1: wears a flamethrower or not. He's one of the less

586
00:33:35,450 --> 00:33:39,020
Speaker 1: notable characters, or at least in my viewing. And he's

587
00:33:39,060 --> 00:33:42,280
Speaker 1: also in 1968's The Batwoman, which we have not covered

588
00:33:42,320 --> 00:33:44,460
Speaker 1: on the show yet, but I think is maybe kind

589
00:33:44,480 --> 00:33:45,060
Speaker 1: of inevitable.

590
00:33:45,940 --> 00:33:47,240
Speaker 3: We'll end up there sooner or later.

591
00:33:47,740 --> 00:33:50,610
Speaker 1: Now, I don't know for certain, but I heavily suspect

592
00:33:50,640 --> 00:33:54,470
Speaker 1: that while Claudio Brooke and Tina Romero are delivering all

593
00:33:54,490 --> 00:33:59,010
Speaker 1: of their English language lines themselves, Silva feels like he

594
00:33:59,030 --> 00:34:02,410
Speaker 1: might have been dubbed here. Like, his voice feels very

595
00:34:02,570 --> 00:34:06,050
Speaker 1: voice-over-y here. You know, it's like, Lupita, no.

596
00:34:06,570 --> 00:34:11,690
Speaker 3: Exactly, yeah. Strong, yeah. That is what it feels like

597
00:34:11,710 --> 00:34:12,290
Speaker 3: to me also.

598
00:34:12,760 --> 00:34:16,000
Speaker 1: Yeah, well, his physical performance, which is still great, is,

599
00:34:16,120 --> 00:34:18,790
Speaker 1: you know, he's more of a sweating, self-hating lump of

600
00:34:18,989 --> 00:34:22,390
Speaker 1: religious zeal. And I don't know, I just I could

601
00:34:22,430 --> 00:34:25,009
Speaker 1: be completely wrong on this. I'm not familiar enough with

602
00:34:25,070 --> 00:34:28,150
Speaker 1: his work, but it feels like maybe he's dubbed in

603
00:34:28,210 --> 00:34:28,670
Speaker 1: English here.

604
00:34:29,210 --> 00:34:32,180
Speaker 3: I love how they don't really set us up for

605
00:34:32,200 --> 00:34:36,020
Speaker 3: the first flagellation scene. You just don't know that that's coming.

606
00:34:36,100 --> 00:34:38,520
Speaker 3: And suddenly this guy and all the nuns are like

607
00:34:38,600 --> 00:34:42,190
Speaker 3: with their habits and tunics pulled down and just whipping

608
00:34:42,230 --> 00:34:44,149
Speaker 3: themselves or being whipped. Yeah.

609
00:34:44,350 --> 00:34:46,430
Speaker 1: And, and not in a, not in a way that

610
00:34:46,489 --> 00:34:48,060
Speaker 1: feels like it's supposed to be sexy.

611
00:34:48,440 --> 00:34:51,560
Speaker 3: No, no, no, not at all. No, it's like, uh,

612
00:34:51,940 --> 00:34:53,560
Speaker 3: it's gross and pathetic.

613
00:34:53,900 --> 00:34:56,460
Speaker 1: Yeah. Uh, let's talk about some of the other, uh,

614
00:34:56,840 --> 00:35:00,050
Speaker 1: members of the cloth here. Um, and what bloodstained cloth

615
00:35:00,110 --> 00:35:03,210
Speaker 1: it is in this picture. We have a sister Angelica

616
00:35:03,290 --> 00:35:07,870
Speaker 1: who is ultimately in many ways, the, the more relatable, uh,

617
00:35:08,730 --> 00:35:12,950
Speaker 1: member of the convent here. The nicest of the nuns. Yes,

618
00:35:13,050 --> 00:35:16,760
Speaker 1: the nicest of the nuns. She's played by Tina French.

619
00:35:17,140 --> 00:35:20,560
Speaker 1: I couldn't find any information about her birth date. Her

620
00:35:20,600 --> 00:35:25,280
Speaker 1: other credits include 1968's Fando and Liss and 1998's Angel

621
00:35:25,320 --> 00:35:29,920
Speaker 1: of Light. As of 2022, she was still active as

622
00:35:29,980 --> 00:35:34,660
Speaker 1: an actress. But she has some really great scenes in this. Yeah.

623
00:35:34,739 --> 00:35:37,219
Speaker 3: Really great one where she, uh, as a, she's like

624
00:35:37,260 --> 00:35:40,520
Speaker 3: a praying nun and she begins levitating, sweating blood and

625
00:35:40,580 --> 00:35:43,200
Speaker 3: she delivers a lethal curse via prayer.

626
00:35:43,219 --> 00:35:47,630
Speaker 1: That's pretty amazing. It's an, it's an awesome sequence. Now

627
00:35:48,010 --> 00:35:53,029
Speaker 1: there's also mother superior played by Brigitte Segereskog. Uh, this

628
00:35:53,090 --> 00:35:55,029
Speaker 1: is her only credit. So I couldn't find anything about

629
00:35:55,070 --> 00:36:00,020
Speaker 1: this individual. Uh, then we also have sister Germana who, um,

630
00:36:01,130 --> 00:36:04,330
Speaker 1: I don't remember what Sister Germana really gets into. She's,

631
00:36:04,370 --> 00:36:07,010
Speaker 1: I think, involved in some dialogue scenes back and forth.

632
00:36:07,050 --> 00:36:10,280
Speaker 1: And then she has a particular fate that we'll discuss.

633
00:36:11,120 --> 00:36:15,340
Speaker 1: But she is played by Adriana Roel, who lived 1934

634
00:36:15,340 --> 00:36:19,440
Speaker 1: through 2022. We previously mentioned her because she played the

635
00:36:19,480 --> 00:36:24,940
Speaker 1: werewolf's sister in 1965's La Loba. Ah, okay. Yeah. And

636
00:36:24,980 --> 00:36:29,430
Speaker 1: she herself was an Ariel Award-winning actress for that. a

637
00:36:29,450 --> 00:36:35,299
Speaker 1: 1979's Anna Cursa, and she also was in 2014's She

638
00:36:35,340 --> 00:36:38,540
Speaker 1: Doesn't Want to Sleep Alone. And then finally, the composer

639
00:36:38,620 --> 00:36:42,219
Speaker 1: for this film was Anthony Goofin. I wasn't able to

640
00:36:42,280 --> 00:36:46,160
Speaker 1: find information about when he was born, his dates either.

641
00:36:46,620 --> 00:36:49,589
Speaker 1: This was his first credited score, but he'd follow up

642
00:36:49,710 --> 00:36:53,950
Speaker 1: Alucarda with 1982's Deadly Eyes, which, weirdly enough, is a

643
00:36:54,030 --> 00:36:58,710
Speaker 1: Canadian killer rat movie produced by Hong Kong's Golden Harvest.

644
00:36:59,010 --> 00:37:00,030
Speaker 3: That's going on the list.

645
00:37:01,870 --> 00:37:04,299
Speaker 1: And he also did the score for Larry Cohen's The

646
00:37:04,380 --> 00:37:09,879
Speaker 1: Stuff in 1985, which weird film fans are probably rather

647
00:37:09,920 --> 00:37:13,560
Speaker 1: familiar with. And his credits in lesser known films continue

648
00:37:13,600 --> 00:37:17,000
Speaker 1: through about 2012. The score here, I think it has

649
00:37:17,020 --> 00:37:20,100
Speaker 1: some nice electronic weirdness. And of course, a lot of,

650
00:37:20,660 --> 00:37:22,649
Speaker 1: given the religious themes, you've got to have some electric

651
00:37:22,870 --> 00:37:24,270
Speaker 1: organ in there. And so we have a lot of

652
00:37:24,310 --> 00:37:24,890
Speaker 1: that going on.

653
00:37:25,150 --> 00:37:26,830
Speaker 3: Yeah, solid soundscapes throughout.

654
00:37:27,290 --> 00:37:30,569
Speaker 1: Yeah, and of course, numerous other professionals, as is always

655
00:37:30,610 --> 00:37:34,770
Speaker 1: the case, made this film possible. You know, the look

656
00:37:34,810 --> 00:37:39,840
Speaker 1: of it is pretty intense and incredible. And that ranges

657
00:37:39,880 --> 00:37:43,660
Speaker 1: from the costumes to the weird sets to the terrifying

658
00:37:43,820 --> 00:37:48,000
Speaker 1: man-on-fire stunts that you find throughout the last.

659
00:37:47,860 --> 00:37:48,580
Speaker 3: Act of the picture.

660
00:37:48,920 --> 00:37:49,040
Speaker 4: Yeah.

661
00:37:57,770 --> 00:37:59,630
Speaker 3: All right, well, is it time to talk about the plot?

662
00:38:00,050 --> 00:38:00,480
Speaker 1: Let's do it.

663
00:38:01,030 --> 00:38:03,689
Speaker 3: It begins with the prologue, of course, where we see

664
00:38:03,710 --> 00:38:06,260
Speaker 3: the birth of our title character. Or not see the birth,

665
00:38:06,280 --> 00:38:07,680
Speaker 3: we see the aftermath of the birth.

666
00:38:08,360 --> 00:38:10,719
Speaker 1: That's right. And this is a great sequence that really

667
00:38:10,780 --> 00:38:13,839
Speaker 1: sets the tone in many ways. Alucarda is born in

668
00:38:13,860 --> 00:38:16,640
Speaker 1: a crypt that has all the trappings of a manger.

669
00:38:17,540 --> 00:38:21,259
Speaker 1: It's a strange set already, just full of cobwebs, straw,

670
00:38:21,960 --> 00:38:26,110
Speaker 1: green vines. ruin statues. So is this a place of

671
00:38:26,230 --> 00:38:30,600
Speaker 1: death or birth or both? And then eventually we're going

672
00:38:30,620 --> 00:38:34,460
Speaker 1: to see baby Alucard taken away by, I don't know,

673
00:38:34,500 --> 00:38:36,700
Speaker 1: an old Romani woman based on what we see later?

674
00:38:36,820 --> 00:38:39,520
Speaker 1: Or is this supposed to be a witch, some sort

675
00:38:39,540 --> 00:38:44,489
Speaker 1: of supernatural emissary? It's really hard to say at this point.

676
00:38:44,610 --> 00:38:48,250
Speaker 1: And she's sending the child away to keep him from

677
00:38:48,310 --> 00:38:51,880
Speaker 1: getting her. And at first, we might think, well, him,

678
00:38:53,120 --> 00:38:54,140
Speaker 1: who is she afraid of?

679
00:38:54,219 --> 00:38:54,580
Speaker 4: Is it.

680
00:38:56,480 --> 00:39:00,279
Speaker 1: Some sort of terrestrial force? Or no, is it something supernatural?

681
00:39:00,320 --> 00:39:03,140
Speaker 1: And if it is supernatural, is Alucard a threatened by

682
00:39:03,200 --> 00:39:06,900
Speaker 1: the devil? Or is Alucard a threatened by the Christian God?

683
00:39:07,739 --> 00:39:10,680
Speaker 3: Good question. This is a cold open, by the way.

684
00:39:10,739 --> 00:39:12,950
Speaker 3: This is like no credits or anything. We just open

685
00:39:13,030 --> 00:39:17,050
Speaker 3: straight up on this setting that is, as you mentioned,

686
00:39:17,130 --> 00:39:19,570
Speaker 3: weird in a number of ways. Like, one thing is

687
00:39:20,310 --> 00:39:24,319
Speaker 3: It seems to be maybe underground. It's certainly enclosed, but

688
00:39:24,360 --> 00:39:28,850
Speaker 3: it's also overgrown on the inside with all these green plants.

689
00:39:29,140 --> 00:39:34,540
Speaker 3: It's a little unnatural. Um, you notice the, the contrasting

690
00:39:34,880 --> 00:39:39,260
Speaker 3: statues all around. So like it's a mix of cultural symbols.

691
00:39:39,380 --> 00:39:43,280
Speaker 3: Some things look like they could be consistent with Catholic tradition.

692
00:39:43,340 --> 00:39:45,180
Speaker 3: Like I think maybe we see something that could be

693
00:39:45,239 --> 00:39:48,859
Speaker 3: Virgin Mary statues. But then the camera wheels over to

694
00:39:48,900 --> 00:39:51,080
Speaker 3: this statue up in the head of the room, which

695
00:39:51,300 --> 00:39:53,799
Speaker 3: looks to me like the great God pan. It's like

696
00:39:53,860 --> 00:39:57,940
Speaker 3: a youthful shirtless male figure on top with what looks

697
00:39:57,960 --> 00:40:00,299
Speaker 3: like goat legs or something on the bottom. Hard to

698
00:40:00,340 --> 00:40:04,710
Speaker 3: say for sure. Uh, and then, so the figure delivering

699
00:40:04,770 --> 00:40:08,390
Speaker 3: the baby, I thought was a man, um, made to

700
00:40:08,430 --> 00:40:11,670
Speaker 3: look like really feral looking. It is a figure wearing

701
00:40:11,710 --> 00:40:15,609
Speaker 3: a pelt of furs with straw, just fully woven into

702
00:40:15,670 --> 00:40:16,089
Speaker 3: his hair.

703
00:40:16,950 --> 00:40:19,370
Speaker 1: Yeah, I was part of me was wondering if this

704
00:40:19,450 --> 00:40:20,870
Speaker 1: is Claudio Brooke once again.

705
00:40:21,130 --> 00:40:21,410
Speaker 4: Yeah.

706
00:40:21,450 --> 00:40:25,469
Speaker 1: Like the general like body form of the character would

707
00:40:25,530 --> 00:40:28,470
Speaker 1: match Claudio Brooke, you know, sort of tall and slim.

708
00:40:29,430 --> 00:40:31,110
Speaker 1: But I couldn't find a good answer on this and

709
00:40:31,180 --> 00:40:33,439
Speaker 1: could not positively ID him in this role either.

710
00:40:33,800 --> 00:40:34,000
Speaker 4: Yeah.

711
00:40:34,920 --> 00:40:36,960
Speaker 3: Also, this is not the movie's fault, but I just

712
00:40:37,040 --> 00:40:40,800
Speaker 3: had to note an association. Alucard's mother here is wearing

713
00:40:40,860 --> 00:40:43,739
Speaker 3: what looks like a green velvet dress with this white

714
00:40:43,860 --> 00:40:46,680
Speaker 3: neck ruffle. And I'm sorry, but I couldn't help but

715
00:40:46,739 --> 00:40:52,060
Speaker 3: be reminded of the wardrobe from the classic mid-2000s Starburst commercial,

716
00:40:52,120 --> 00:40:54,600
Speaker 3: the berries and cream guy. I'm a little lad who

717
00:40:54,640 --> 00:40:56,880
Speaker 3: loves berries and cream. She's dressed like that guy.

718
00:40:58,340 --> 00:40:59,880
Speaker 1: I was not familiar with this at all. I had

719
00:40:59,900 --> 00:41:01,759
Speaker 1: to look it up. Yeah, apparently this character is called

720
00:41:01,840 --> 00:41:04,900
Speaker 1: Little Lad and was played by a dancer and actor,

721
00:41:04,980 --> 00:41:05,760
Speaker 1: Jack Fervor.

722
00:41:06,800 --> 00:41:11,380
Speaker 3: Anyway, in the scene, Alucarda's mother says, poor little creature,

723
00:41:11,400 --> 00:41:14,810
Speaker 3: I won't be able to see Alucarda grow. but she

724
00:41:14,890 --> 00:41:18,270
Speaker 3: must survive. Take her to the convent. Please promise me

725
00:41:18,310 --> 00:41:21,339
Speaker 3: that you will protect her and don't let him take

726
00:41:21,380 --> 00:41:21,860
Speaker 3: her away.

727
00:41:21,880 --> 00:41:23,320
Speaker 1: That's what you were talking about. Him.

728
00:41:23,489 --> 00:41:28,440
Speaker 3: Who is him? And then the person there swears and

729
00:41:28,500 --> 00:41:31,600
Speaker 3: takes the baby away. And then there is some kind

730
00:41:31,660 --> 00:41:36,880
Speaker 3: of magical confrontation. Alucarda's mother, still like, by the way,

731
00:41:36,960 --> 00:41:40,380
Speaker 3: she's in not just a regular, like we said she

732
00:41:40,420 --> 00:41:42,460
Speaker 3: was in straw, but not just straw on the floor.

733
00:41:42,500 --> 00:41:45,770
Speaker 3: She's in like a sunken, pit in the middle of

734
00:41:45,850 --> 00:41:50,090
Speaker 3: the room on a bed of straw. And she faces

735
00:41:50,350 --> 00:41:52,360
Speaker 3: up to look at the statue at the head of

736
00:41:52,410 --> 00:41:55,200
Speaker 3: the room, uh, which whether it's, you know, the God

737
00:41:55,280 --> 00:42:00,340
Speaker 3: pan or something else. And then we hear other worldly sounds,

738
00:42:00,500 --> 00:42:05,980
Speaker 3: the fluttering of bat wings, a dry rasping groan. And

739
00:42:06,020 --> 00:42:09,160
Speaker 3: then she braces herself against the straw bed and she

740
00:42:09,300 --> 00:42:12,540
Speaker 3: grimaces like she's getting prepared for a psychic battle with

741
00:42:12,820 --> 00:42:16,400
Speaker 3: Her eyes grow wide. She screams and then credits.

742
00:42:17,020 --> 00:42:19,879
Speaker 1: Yeah, and that dry, raspy groan, we're going to hear

743
00:42:19,920 --> 00:42:22,319
Speaker 1: that time and time again throughout the movie. Is this

744
00:42:22,400 --> 00:42:25,360
Speaker 1: the present? It sounds kind of like a zombie sound almost.

745
00:42:25,620 --> 00:42:28,060
Speaker 1: Is it the presence of the infernal? Or is this

746
00:42:28,120 --> 00:42:32,060
Speaker 1: perversely like the presence of the divine? Uncertain.

747
00:42:32,520 --> 00:42:36,229
Speaker 3: It reminds me of the rasping of the witch in Suspiria.

748
00:42:36,270 --> 00:42:39,610
Speaker 1: Yes, yes. Good connection. Yeah, that's what it was reminding

749
00:42:39,630 --> 00:42:42,180
Speaker 1: me of as well. All right. So from here, we

750
00:42:42,219 --> 00:42:45,319
Speaker 1: fast forward 15 years into the future. The year is,

751
00:42:45,340 --> 00:42:49,080
Speaker 1: I believe, 1850. And we have a new character, Justine,

752
00:42:49,260 --> 00:42:51,970
Speaker 1: and she is arriving at a convent in Mexico following

753
00:42:52,010 --> 00:42:52,990
Speaker 1: her parents' death.

754
00:42:53,410 --> 00:42:55,610
Speaker 3: That's right. And there are a mix of feelings, I

755
00:42:55,630 --> 00:42:59,890
Speaker 3: would say, generated by this scene. The visual environment of

756
00:42:59,950 --> 00:43:05,330
Speaker 3: the convent is, I think, quite dingy and depressing. Justine

757
00:43:05,370 --> 00:43:08,890
Speaker 3: is brought by wagon on this bare mud road outside.

758
00:43:09,400 --> 00:43:11,759
Speaker 3: And we can see the outer walls of the convent

759
00:43:11,820 --> 00:43:15,380
Speaker 3: in broad daylight. And they seem to be just infinitely

760
00:43:15,500 --> 00:43:19,540
Speaker 3: smudged with filth and neglect. And then all around the

761
00:43:19,600 --> 00:43:22,920
Speaker 3: outside of the convent, there are just people standing around

762
00:43:22,980 --> 00:43:25,610
Speaker 3: apparently with nothing to do as if they're like waiting

763
00:43:25,690 --> 00:43:29,549
Speaker 3: for something. It just feels bad. But then on the

764
00:43:29,590 --> 00:43:32,950
Speaker 3: other hand, the nun who welcomes Justine when she arrives,

765
00:43:32,989 --> 00:43:34,410
Speaker 3: I think this is Sister Angelica.

766
00:43:34,430 --> 00:43:34,500
Speaker 4: Yes.

767
00:43:35,340 --> 00:43:37,450
Speaker 3: Is very kind and warm. You know, she gives her

768
00:43:37,469 --> 00:43:39,770
Speaker 3: a whole, like, Justine, I'm so glad you've arrived. We've

769
00:43:39,790 --> 00:43:42,370
Speaker 3: been expecting you. There's nothing to be afraid of. This

770
00:43:42,450 --> 00:43:46,050
Speaker 3: is your home now. So she's very kind and helpful.

771
00:43:46,989 --> 00:43:50,640
Speaker 3: But then again, there are more unsettling elements, like the

772
00:43:50,860 --> 00:43:53,379
Speaker 3: interior of the convent and the way all the nuns

773
00:43:53,440 --> 00:43:56,219
Speaker 3: are dressed. You had something about that, didn't you?

774
00:43:56,600 --> 00:43:59,060
Speaker 1: Oh, yeah. I mean, I think everybody who's ever watched

775
00:43:59,100 --> 00:44:02,279
Speaker 1: this movie has something about this because, yeah, the interiors

776
00:44:02,300 --> 00:44:04,410
Speaker 1: of the convent just straight up feel like a tomb.

777
00:44:04,830 --> 00:44:07,250
Speaker 1: In the best of cases, they feel like a nicely,

778
00:44:07,489 --> 00:44:09,670
Speaker 1: like a tomb where somebody's at least opened the window.

779
00:44:10,370 --> 00:44:12,350
Speaker 1: And in their worst, well, we'll get to that in

780
00:44:12,410 --> 00:44:15,010
Speaker 1: a minute. But then, yeah, the way the nuns are dressed,

781
00:44:15,690 --> 00:44:18,110
Speaker 1: if you're expecting or picturing in your mind sort of

782
00:44:18,210 --> 00:44:22,609
Speaker 1: traditional stereotypical nuns habits, that is not what's going on here.

783
00:44:23,070 --> 00:44:28,870
Speaker 1: They are dressed in alarming habits that really resemble mummy

784
00:44:28,950 --> 00:44:32,410
Speaker 1: wrappings more than anything. And these wrappings are like stained

785
00:44:32,450 --> 00:44:36,070
Speaker 1: in places with, what? We're not sure exactly. Blood, it

786
00:44:36,110 --> 00:44:41,880
Speaker 1: would seem, but also maybe perspiration. Are they stained with lust, suffering,

787
00:44:41,900 --> 00:44:47,000
Speaker 1: from intense emotion? Perhaps all of this. So the nuns

788
00:44:47,060 --> 00:44:50,860
Speaker 1: themselves are presented as if entombed alive in a place,

789
00:44:51,440 --> 00:44:54,700
Speaker 1: in this place, while their outfits betray their organic nature

790
00:44:54,800 --> 00:44:56,080
Speaker 1: and their mortal longings.

791
00:44:57,300 --> 00:45:00,860
Speaker 3: The nuns are like bloody, muddy mummies.

792
00:45:01,580 --> 00:45:07,480
Speaker 1: Strange. Yeah, there is a Yeah, a foulness to the

793
00:45:07,540 --> 00:45:11,290
Speaker 1: way they're dressed. And this is something, yeah, that anytime

794
00:45:11,310 --> 00:45:14,509
Speaker 1: you read anything about Alucard, they always bring this up

795
00:45:14,550 --> 00:45:16,440
Speaker 1: because it is one of the most notable aspects of it.

796
00:45:16,489 --> 00:45:18,270
Speaker 1: And one that, you know, ultimately we're just left to

797
00:45:18,290 --> 00:45:19,550
Speaker 1: sort of puzzle and interpret.

798
00:45:20,190 --> 00:45:22,370
Speaker 3: Okay, what the nuns look like is they look like

799
00:45:23,670 --> 00:45:27,410
Speaker 3: mummies who are dressed in wrappings like mummies, but also

800
00:45:27,450 --> 00:45:30,359
Speaker 3: with like a kind of, you know, dress habit thing.

801
00:45:31,010 --> 00:45:33,690
Speaker 3: And they all work in a meat processing plant, and

802
00:45:33,730 --> 00:45:36,060
Speaker 3: they haven't changed their bandages in a month.

803
00:45:36,400 --> 00:45:36,660
Speaker 1: Yes.

804
00:45:37,300 --> 00:45:37,480
Speaker 4: Yeah.

805
00:45:37,800 --> 00:45:40,100
Speaker 1: I guess, as we'll see, part of it may be

806
00:45:40,140 --> 00:45:45,250
Speaker 1: that they routinely have to whip themselves for their mortal longings.

807
00:45:45,850 --> 00:45:48,430
Speaker 1: And that's going to stain through. It's hard to get

808
00:45:48,469 --> 00:45:49,370
Speaker 1: that out of your habits.

809
00:45:49,920 --> 00:45:52,319
Speaker 3: Now, in this sequence, we also meet a few other

810
00:45:52,360 --> 00:45:55,739
Speaker 3: major characters. We mentioned Justine and Sister Angelica. There's also

811
00:45:55,780 --> 00:46:00,839
Speaker 3: the Mother Superior, Sister Germanna, and the Dr. Osek and

812
00:46:00,940 --> 00:46:01,520
Speaker 3: his daughter.

813
00:46:01,620 --> 00:46:02,120
Speaker 1: Again, Dr.

814
00:46:02,219 --> 00:46:07,719
Speaker 3: Osek is played by Claudio Brooke. So he is there

815
00:46:07,890 --> 00:46:11,810
Speaker 3: picking up his daughter, Daniela, who is blind. And we

816
00:46:11,950 --> 00:46:14,009
Speaker 3: learn that she has been spending some time at the

817
00:46:14,050 --> 00:46:16,450
Speaker 3: convent over the summer. I think they've been helping teach

818
00:46:16,489 --> 00:46:19,259
Speaker 3: her how to do some things there. And now she's

819
00:46:19,320 --> 00:46:25,540
Speaker 3: returning home with her father. Sister Angelica shows Justine to

820
00:46:25,600 --> 00:46:28,380
Speaker 3: her room, which is a small cell with a single

821
00:46:28,440 --> 00:46:31,710
Speaker 3: window to the outside. And there are two beds, each

822
00:46:31,750 --> 00:46:33,710
Speaker 3: with a cross on the wall over the head of

823
00:46:33,750 --> 00:46:37,190
Speaker 3: the bed. Sister Angelica tells Justine to get some rest

824
00:46:37,489 --> 00:46:39,830
Speaker 3: and that if she ever feels troubled or needs help,

825
00:46:39,969 --> 00:46:42,870
Speaker 3: just call upon her and she'll be there. So Sister Angelica,

826
00:46:42,890 --> 00:46:46,750
Speaker 3: she's she's sweet. But there's another bed in the room.

827
00:46:46,830 --> 00:46:49,310
Speaker 3: So is Justine going to have a roommate? Oh, yes,

828
00:46:49,350 --> 00:46:53,219
Speaker 3: she is. When she's left alone, Justine spends a moment

829
00:46:53,280 --> 00:46:56,780
Speaker 3: looking at a locket containing photos of her mother and father.

830
00:46:57,600 --> 00:47:00,840
Speaker 3: And then while she's admiring the photos, a figure blurs

831
00:47:00,920 --> 00:47:04,390
Speaker 3: into focus from behind her. It is a young woman

832
00:47:04,489 --> 00:47:08,950
Speaker 3: dressed all in black with pale skin and long, dark hair.

833
00:47:09,650 --> 00:47:15,310
Speaker 3: This is Alucarda. She startles Justine and then introduces herself.

834
00:47:15,940 --> 00:47:23,339
Speaker 3: And there's something notable about the velocity of interaction with Alucarda. Like,

835
00:47:23,390 --> 00:47:30,070
Speaker 3: there's no timidness at the beginning. She just launches into

836
00:47:30,150 --> 00:47:35,410
Speaker 3: relationship with Justine so fast. Like, they briefly bond over

837
00:47:35,450 --> 00:47:39,250
Speaker 3: the fact that they're both orphans. But then Alucarda suddenly says,

838
00:47:39,430 --> 00:47:42,069
Speaker 3: I have something to show you. So she runs to

839
00:47:42,110 --> 00:47:45,020
Speaker 3: retrieve something from under her bed. And she pulls something

840
00:47:45,060 --> 00:47:47,489
Speaker 3: out and says, these are things I never show to anybody.

841
00:47:47,610 --> 00:47:50,510
Speaker 3: They're secrets. And every day I find a new secret.

842
00:47:51,070 --> 00:47:55,330
Speaker 3: What is it? It's stuff. Like Alucarda dumps out onto

843
00:47:55,390 --> 00:47:58,989
Speaker 3: her bed a leather bag full of stuff. It contains

844
00:47:59,050 --> 00:48:03,970
Speaker 3: what look like pebbles, pieces of broken glass, flakes of metal,

845
00:48:04,550 --> 00:48:07,700
Speaker 3: scraps of fabric, and just other little bits of trash.

846
00:48:08,960 --> 00:48:11,440
Speaker 3: And she explains that each one of these objects is

847
00:48:11,480 --> 00:48:14,839
Speaker 3: a secret. She says that these objects come to her.

848
00:48:15,200 --> 00:48:17,900
Speaker 3: She says, it comes to me. And then she picks

849
00:48:18,680 --> 00:48:21,960
Speaker 3: up one piece from this pile and says this, for instance,

850
00:48:22,200 --> 00:48:25,560
Speaker 3: it means I like you. And she puts the object

851
00:48:25,620 --> 00:48:28,890
Speaker 3: in Justine's hand and then closes Justine's fingers around it.

852
00:48:29,120 --> 00:48:34,370
Speaker 3: Justine smiles. Then Alucarda says she'll show her another. So

853
00:48:34,410 --> 00:48:37,489
Speaker 3: she holds out her hand and she empties this, like

854
00:48:37,570 --> 00:48:41,030
Speaker 3: she uncorks a black bottle and empties the black bottle

855
00:48:41,110 --> 00:48:44,210
Speaker 3: onto her palm. And it's something alive. It's full of

856
00:48:44,250 --> 00:48:47,450
Speaker 3: little writhing caterpillars or some other kind of insect.

857
00:48:47,860 --> 00:48:50,100
Speaker 1: Yeah, they're not played for horror here.

858
00:48:50,620 --> 00:48:54,160
Speaker 3: No, no. No, she pours them out on her hand

859
00:48:54,200 --> 00:48:57,520
Speaker 3: and then says this line that you identified, Rob. She says,

860
00:48:57,640 --> 00:49:00,460
Speaker 3: do you know how small creatures love each other? I'll

861
00:49:00,500 --> 00:49:01,839
Speaker 3: show you. Yeah.

862
00:49:01,860 --> 00:49:04,899
Speaker 1: What does that mean? I love this line. And again,

863
00:49:04,940 --> 00:49:07,040
Speaker 1: it's one of those where you just have to sort

864
00:49:07,060 --> 00:49:09,940
Speaker 1: of think about it and interpret it. But for me anyway,

865
00:49:10,580 --> 00:49:13,870
Speaker 1: you know, this feels like, like, Like peak innocence in

866
00:49:13,910 --> 00:49:19,969
Speaker 1: this film. So in this one line, we sense Alucard's enthusiasm.

867
00:49:20,300 --> 00:49:23,660
Speaker 1: you know, for the secrets of nature and wondrous things

868
00:49:23,980 --> 00:49:27,160
Speaker 1: that exist on the small scale. And perhaps, you know,

869
00:49:27,460 --> 00:49:29,799
Speaker 1: reading into this and thinking about what's to come in

870
00:49:29,820 --> 00:49:32,219
Speaker 1: this film, maybe they're on such a small scale that

871
00:49:32,239 --> 00:49:35,160
Speaker 1: they avoid the attention of a larger world, of the

872
00:49:35,219 --> 00:49:40,800
Speaker 1: adult world, and also supernatural forces. Like, maybe it small

873
00:49:40,860 --> 00:49:43,000
Speaker 1: things are allowed to love each other because they're too

874
00:49:43,080 --> 00:49:45,489
Speaker 1: small for the devil or for God to care about them.

875
00:49:45,890 --> 00:49:48,310
Speaker 3: Oh yeah. I like that reading. I think that could

876
00:49:48,330 --> 00:49:49,049
Speaker 3: be what he's meant there.

877
00:49:49,090 --> 00:49:49,270
Speaker 1: Yeah.

878
00:49:49,290 --> 00:49:51,690
Speaker 3: The small things are like, they can, they can avoid

879
00:49:51,790 --> 00:49:54,830
Speaker 3: his gay is, you know, they can, um, that they

880
00:49:54,850 --> 00:49:57,729
Speaker 3: can get away with just living and loving as they want,

881
00:49:57,850 --> 00:50:02,029
Speaker 3: as they want. Um, now Alucard says, I'll show you,

882
00:50:02,070 --> 00:50:04,400
Speaker 3: I'll take you to the garden, to the woods. Everything

883
00:50:04,460 --> 00:50:08,100
Speaker 3: is there. And she's just so intense, so fast, um,

884
00:50:08,540 --> 00:50:12,360
Speaker 3: And then suddenly we're out there in nature. Alucarda and

885
00:50:12,400 --> 00:50:15,259
Speaker 3: Justine are outside and Alucarda has picked up a piece

886
00:50:15,300 --> 00:50:18,420
Speaker 3: of moss and she's holding it up for Justine to see.

887
00:50:18,560 --> 00:50:22,290
Speaker 3: And on the moss are crawling two bright red mites.

888
00:50:22,930 --> 00:50:25,469
Speaker 1: Yeah, I guess these are clover mites. And I like

889
00:50:25,489 --> 00:50:29,089
Speaker 1: their inclusion here because anytime I've ever encountered these little

890
00:50:29,130 --> 00:50:34,370
Speaker 1: guys or some related species in the wild anyway, it

891
00:50:34,430 --> 00:50:37,170
Speaker 1: always does feel like a little special minor miracle.

892
00:50:37,630 --> 00:50:37,770
Speaker 2: Yeah.

893
00:50:38,840 --> 00:50:39,819
Speaker 1: So bright. So red.

894
00:50:40,100 --> 00:50:42,339
Speaker 3: Justine's very, she's, uh, I think she says, I've never

895
00:50:42,400 --> 00:50:46,580
Speaker 3: seen these before. Uh, they're so interesting. And, um, then

896
00:50:46,739 --> 00:50:50,279
Speaker 3: Alucarda says it's one more secret. One is identical to

897
00:50:50,320 --> 00:50:52,819
Speaker 3: the other, like an image in a mirror, like you

898
00:50:52,880 --> 00:50:56,980
Speaker 3: and me. Then suddenly Alucarda is like more, more, more.

899
00:50:57,340 --> 00:50:59,560
Speaker 3: Let's find more secrets. And they start to run around

900
00:50:59,600 --> 00:51:03,739
Speaker 3: in the woods, laughing madly, wrestling and tumbling in the grass. Uh,

901
00:51:04,380 --> 00:51:07,989
Speaker 3: And it seems perhaps their relationship is already something more

902
00:51:08,030 --> 00:51:10,370
Speaker 3: than friendship. It's like moving so fast.

903
00:51:10,770 --> 00:51:13,210
Speaker 1: Right, right. These two are drawn to each other, and

904
00:51:13,290 --> 00:51:18,879
Speaker 1: certainly Alucarda is drawn to Justine. And now their trajectory

905
00:51:19,160 --> 00:51:19,900
Speaker 1: cannot be stopped.

906
00:51:20,219 --> 00:51:24,930
Speaker 3: Yeah. But their happiness is interrupted by the somber clang

907
00:51:25,070 --> 00:51:28,250
Speaker 3: of a funeral bell. They look down into the little

908
00:51:28,390 --> 00:51:31,890
Speaker 3: ravine slightly below them and they see a procession of

909
00:51:32,050 --> 00:51:36,430
Speaker 3: figures in black carrying a coffin. It's a very creepy image,

910
00:51:36,489 --> 00:51:38,730
Speaker 3: by the way, in the way that it's framed, especially

911
00:51:38,770 --> 00:51:43,070
Speaker 3: because it's in broad daylight in this green, lush forest

912
00:51:43,110 --> 00:51:47,050
Speaker 3: full of undergrowth. But these figures clad totally in black.

913
00:51:47,070 --> 00:51:49,009
Speaker 3: I think you can't even see their faces and they're

914
00:51:49,030 --> 00:51:55,239
Speaker 3: carrying this coffin. So it's beautifully framed and unsettling. And

915
00:51:55,380 --> 00:51:59,060
Speaker 3: Alucarda explains to Justine that this funeral is for another

916
00:51:59,100 --> 00:52:01,989
Speaker 3: girl at the convent who died by suicide. And they

917
00:52:02,030 --> 00:52:05,770
Speaker 3: say the nuns will bury her in unhallowed ground. There's

918
00:52:05,790 --> 00:52:10,430
Speaker 3: something sad about that. Justine says that funerals frighten her,

919
00:52:10,830 --> 00:52:15,570
Speaker 3: but Alucarda does not seem afraid. She seems almost a

920
00:52:15,610 --> 00:52:19,530
Speaker 3: little bit defiant, maybe a little bit excited. And she says,

921
00:52:19,670 --> 00:52:22,960
Speaker 3: you have to die. Everyone has to die, but there

922
00:52:22,980 --> 00:52:28,480
Speaker 3: can be happiness beyond death. So Alucarda and Justine continue

923
00:52:28,520 --> 00:52:31,640
Speaker 3: running through the woods until they finally have an encounter

924
00:52:31,739 --> 00:52:35,279
Speaker 3: with the Hunchback. This is the character also played by

925
00:52:35,340 --> 00:52:38,259
Speaker 3: Claudio Brooke, who is very goat-like in appearance.

926
00:52:39,160 --> 00:52:42,890
Speaker 1: Yeah, this is tremendous. Such a contrast to the other character.

927
00:52:43,230 --> 00:52:48,630
Speaker 1: Very broad, jester-like performance at times. Lanky arms, shuffling gait.

928
00:52:49,580 --> 00:52:53,790
Speaker 1: speaking in an over-the-top accent and in multiple languages, goat-like

929
00:52:53,890 --> 00:52:57,490
Speaker 1: facial hair, shaggy pants. Yeah, the works.

930
00:52:58,730 --> 00:53:00,969
Speaker 3: I mean, he should almost say at the beginning, I

931
00:53:01,030 --> 00:53:04,509
Speaker 3: am known by many names. He sort of pops up

932
00:53:04,550 --> 00:53:07,129
Speaker 3: out of nowhere and startles them while they're running around

933
00:53:07,170 --> 00:53:10,450
Speaker 3: in the woods. And yeah, he's very goat-like. He's got

934
00:53:10,489 --> 00:53:14,700
Speaker 3: these things dangling off him that jingle when he walks.

935
00:53:14,800 --> 00:53:18,600
Speaker 3: I like that detail. As you said, he speaks many languages, including,

936
00:53:18,620 --> 00:53:22,720
Speaker 3: I caught, pieces of French and of German and perhaps

937
00:53:22,800 --> 00:53:27,100
Speaker 3: other things too and when they first meet this guy

938
00:53:27,120 --> 00:53:31,279
Speaker 3: they have different reactions Justine is frightened by him and

939
00:53:31,320 --> 00:53:34,379
Speaker 3: she wants to run away but Alucarda is like no

940
00:53:34,420 --> 00:53:37,120
Speaker 3: I like this guy and she returns his smile and

941
00:53:37,180 --> 00:53:40,060
Speaker 3: she convinces Justine that they should follow him she says

942
00:53:40,120 --> 00:53:43,440
Speaker 3: he won't harm us and as they're going along he

943
00:53:43,500 --> 00:53:46,660
Speaker 3: advertises all kinds of services he tells them that he

944
00:53:46,719 --> 00:53:49,370
Speaker 3: can let them know people's secrets and Yeah.

945
00:53:49,410 --> 00:53:49,509
Speaker 2: Yeah.

946
00:54:11,410 --> 00:54:13,969
Speaker 3: So they followed the hunchback to his camp where they

947
00:54:14,010 --> 00:54:17,029
Speaker 3: meet other people from his group, including a woman who

948
00:54:17,150 --> 00:54:20,450
Speaker 3: reads Justine's palm and tells her fortune, or at least

949
00:54:20,489 --> 00:54:23,670
Speaker 3: she tries to. After one look, she says, I see nothing,

950
00:54:23,770 --> 00:54:28,600
Speaker 3: only shadows and darkness. And there's also some feuding between

951
00:54:28,960 --> 00:54:32,040
Speaker 3: the two different main people in the Romani group here.

952
00:54:32,120 --> 00:54:36,660
Speaker 3: The hunchback and the fortune teller insult each other's services.

953
00:54:36,800 --> 00:54:39,390
Speaker 3: Like the fortune teller says, he'll tell you only lies.

954
00:54:40,030 --> 00:54:43,130
Speaker 3: And the hunchback says to the fortune teller, he's like, oh,

955
00:54:43,170 --> 00:54:44,830
Speaker 3: you know, what she sees in your palm is just

956
00:54:44,850 --> 00:54:49,110
Speaker 3: going to be her own dreams backwards. And the hunchback

957
00:54:49,750 --> 00:54:53,390
Speaker 3: tells Alucarda that he knows the secrets of alchemy and

958
00:54:53,430 --> 00:54:57,380
Speaker 3: he can transform dust into precious stones. And then he

959
00:54:57,420 --> 00:55:00,319
Speaker 3: says either stones or souls, I couldn't tell which one,

960
00:55:01,040 --> 00:55:06,520
Speaker 3: transform those into never imagined dreams. And he also offers

961
00:55:06,600 --> 00:55:11,170
Speaker 3: Alucarda a magic knife. and gives this very cryptic speech.

962
00:55:11,190 --> 00:55:13,170
Speaker 3: It was kind of hard for me to understand what

963
00:55:13,210 --> 00:55:15,489
Speaker 3: this connects to in the film, but I like the

964
00:55:15,570 --> 00:55:19,140
Speaker 3: ambiguity there. He says, I see your dream clearly, your

965
00:55:19,180 --> 00:55:22,319
Speaker 3: past and future. You have come from the dew in

966
00:55:22,360 --> 00:55:25,420
Speaker 3: the forest, and there they will be waiting for you.

967
00:55:25,900 --> 00:55:29,469
Speaker 3: Who is they? Strange creatures they are, and you must

968
00:55:29,530 --> 00:55:32,430
Speaker 3: take care. If it obsesses the young lady, and I

969
00:55:32,530 --> 00:55:35,130
Speaker 3: think it must, here I am, and here is my

970
00:55:35,170 --> 00:55:38,410
Speaker 3: box of charms. If the ladyship wishes, I shall make

971
00:55:38,430 --> 00:55:41,669
Speaker 3: her free from such a dream. Then, if the dream

972
00:55:41,690 --> 00:55:44,210
Speaker 3: should come true, I should be expecting her.

973
00:55:44,730 --> 00:55:45,550
Speaker 1: Very cryptic.

974
00:55:46,610 --> 00:55:50,830
Speaker 3: Very, yeah. I mean, very hard to paraphrase what he's

975
00:55:51,050 --> 00:55:53,390
Speaker 3: actually saying there. Though, at the same time, it's almost

976
00:55:53,410 --> 00:55:59,239
Speaker 3: like the subtextual implications are very clear. And those are,

977
00:55:59,280 --> 00:56:02,319
Speaker 3: it's like, he's making her some kind of offer, but

978
00:56:02,420 --> 00:56:04,860
Speaker 3: she's going to owe him something in return.

979
00:56:04,880 --> 00:56:05,260
Speaker 1: Mm-hmm.

980
00:56:05,739 --> 00:56:09,320
Speaker 3: Now Alucarda is shaken by this, but by what? Unclear.

981
00:56:10,080 --> 00:56:13,140
Speaker 3: So she and Justine run away and they dash together

982
00:56:13,180 --> 00:56:17,930
Speaker 3: through the forest until they come to a ruined palace

983
00:56:17,989 --> 00:56:21,730
Speaker 3: or castle of some kind. And once again, Justine, this

984
00:56:21,790 --> 00:56:25,170
Speaker 3: is a common kind of difference here. Justine is frightened

985
00:56:25,210 --> 00:56:27,069
Speaker 3: by this place and she wants to go back home.

986
00:56:27,469 --> 00:56:29,880
Speaker 3: But Alucarda is like, no, no, let's go inside. She

987
00:56:29,910 --> 00:56:32,940
Speaker 3: finds it beautiful and somehow very familiar as if she's

988
00:56:32,980 --> 00:56:33,780
Speaker 3: been here before.

989
00:56:34,530 --> 00:56:38,170
Speaker 1: Yeah, and the exterior here is so tremendous. It's like

990
00:56:38,210 --> 00:56:43,290
Speaker 1: a stone sculpture-encrusted edifice in disrepair, draped all over with

991
00:56:43,350 --> 00:56:51,239
Speaker 1: lengths of blood-stained colored cloths, red almost brown. And inside,

992
00:56:51,280 --> 00:56:55,160
Speaker 1: of course, we're going to find dust, bones, cobwebs, ruins,

993
00:56:55,280 --> 00:56:59,560
Speaker 1: and ultimately, the viewer will recognize the very crypt where

994
00:56:59,600 --> 00:57:00,500
Speaker 1: Elucarda was born.

995
00:57:00,890 --> 00:57:01,089
Speaker 4: Right.

996
00:57:01,130 --> 00:57:04,930
Speaker 3: And this place is radioactive with magic. She says, I

997
00:57:04,969 --> 00:57:07,549
Speaker 3: can hear voices from the past. I feel as if

998
00:57:07,590 --> 00:57:10,989
Speaker 3: I've been here before. One can live eternally instead of

999
00:57:11,070 --> 00:57:14,969
Speaker 3: turning into a pile of dust. Are you afraid of dying? Again,

1000
00:57:15,030 --> 00:57:19,740
Speaker 3: with Alucarda, these just the frantic almost kind of stream

1001
00:57:19,760 --> 00:57:24,280
Speaker 3: of consciousness feed the sudden subject changes one sentence to another.

1002
00:57:24,420 --> 00:57:27,970
Speaker 3: They don't always seem to follow. But she asks Justine,

1003
00:57:28,030 --> 00:57:30,810
Speaker 3: are you afraid of dying? And Justine says, yes, everyone is.

1004
00:57:31,550 --> 00:57:35,050
Speaker 3: But Alucarda says, I mean dying, loving each other, dying

1005
00:57:35,110 --> 00:57:38,680
Speaker 3: together so we may live as one forever. The same

1006
00:57:38,780 --> 00:57:42,600
Speaker 3: blood always flowing through our veins. And then Alucarda caresses

1007
00:57:42,680 --> 00:57:46,780
Speaker 3: Justine's face and it turns more tender, though it's a

1008
00:57:46,800 --> 00:57:50,780
Speaker 3: little threatening and tender at the same time. Alucarda is

1009
00:57:50,930 --> 00:57:55,230
Speaker 3: so much. She says, darling, darling Justine, I live in you.

1010
00:57:55,690 --> 00:57:58,370
Speaker 3: Would you die for me? I love you so. I've

1011
00:57:58,410 --> 00:58:01,630
Speaker 3: never been in love with anyone and never shall unless

1012
00:58:01,690 --> 00:58:06,780
Speaker 3: it's with you. And Justine is, I think she reciprocates

1013
00:58:06,840 --> 00:58:09,720
Speaker 3: the feeling in a way, but she's also overwhelmed and afraid.

1014
00:58:09,740 --> 00:58:12,980
Speaker 3: And Alucardus says, the time is very near when you

1015
00:58:13,000 --> 00:58:15,360
Speaker 3: will love me as much as I love you. You

1016
00:58:15,400 --> 00:58:18,680
Speaker 3: may think me cruel and selfish, but love is always selfish.

1017
00:58:19,040 --> 00:58:21,340
Speaker 3: Don't you know how jealous I am? You must love

1018
00:58:21,390 --> 00:58:22,110
Speaker 3: me to death.

1019
00:58:22,810 --> 00:58:22,990
Speaker 1: Wow.

1020
00:58:25,080 --> 00:58:28,300
Speaker 3: It's great stuff. I mean, Justine is terrified, understandably, but

1021
00:58:28,400 --> 00:58:31,500
Speaker 3: Alucarda is in a state of ecstasy and she's sort

1022
00:58:31,520 --> 00:58:34,270
Speaker 3: of floating around the room almost. I mean, not, not

1023
00:58:34,350 --> 00:58:36,090
Speaker 3: literally though. We'll, there will be some of that in

1024
00:58:36,110 --> 00:58:38,710
Speaker 3: a bit. Uh, but she says she, she remembers a

1025
00:58:38,750 --> 00:58:41,990
Speaker 3: time when she was wounded and nearly died. And then

1026
00:58:42,030 --> 00:58:45,440
Speaker 3: she just pivots right away from that. She says, um, uh,

1027
00:58:45,500 --> 00:58:48,360
Speaker 3: that Justine has to swear a pact with her that

1028
00:58:48,420 --> 00:58:50,640
Speaker 3: if we ever depart from this life, we shall do

1029
00:58:50,680 --> 00:58:54,820
Speaker 3: it together. And Justine agrees, but with passive phrasing. She says,

1030
00:58:54,860 --> 00:58:58,520
Speaker 3: all right, if this makes you happy. And then Alucard

1031
00:58:58,840 --> 00:59:01,979
Speaker 3: pulls out a knife, the magic knife to draw blood with.

1032
00:59:02,680 --> 00:59:04,870
Speaker 3: But then she gets distracted and looks down at their

1033
00:59:04,910 --> 00:59:07,530
Speaker 3: feet and first says, look, look at this coffin. And

1034
00:59:08,050 --> 00:59:09,610
Speaker 3: they see the name on the coffin. It is the

1035
00:59:09,630 --> 00:59:12,940
Speaker 3: name Lucifer. Lucy West Westinra. I think it is. I always,

1036
00:59:13,260 --> 00:59:16,640
Speaker 3: is it Westerner Westinra, whatever it is. Um, that is

1037
00:59:16,700 --> 00:59:21,000
Speaker 3: the name of the character Lucy from the novel Dracula, uh, the,

1038
00:59:21,160 --> 00:59:24,620
Speaker 3: you know, uh, Mina's friend, Lucy, who is, if you're

1039
00:59:24,640 --> 00:59:27,160
Speaker 3: not familiar with the story, She's the first person in

1040
00:59:27,760 --> 00:59:32,160
Speaker 3: England who goes through this gradual transformation into vampire thrall.

1041
00:59:32,460 --> 00:59:37,200
Speaker 3: The Dracula visits her on a series of nights and

1042
00:59:37,240 --> 00:59:41,010
Speaker 3: she gradually dies and then turns into a vampire. But

1043
00:59:41,050 --> 00:59:43,550
Speaker 3: this character, Lucy, we don't get that in this movie

1044
00:59:43,570 --> 00:59:46,410
Speaker 3: at all. The name is the only reference. And so

1045
00:59:46,590 --> 00:59:49,970
Speaker 3: it's this coffin with Lucy Westinra written on it. They

1046
00:59:50,010 --> 00:59:53,470
Speaker 3: say she died years ago. And Alucarda has the idea,

1047
00:59:53,590 --> 00:59:57,990
Speaker 3: let's swear by her. Again, Justine is afraid, but Alucard is,

1048
00:59:58,290 --> 01:00:00,370
Speaker 3: she can't be stopped. She's like a bulldozer. She just

1049
01:00:00,430 --> 01:00:06,100
Speaker 3: throws the coffin open. And then they see this mold mummy, disgusting, sunken,

1050
01:00:06,580 --> 01:00:11,200
Speaker 3: flattened gray mask of rotten death. And the moment the

1051
01:00:11,280 --> 01:00:17,430
Speaker 3: coffin is opened, it unleashes some kind of sonic attack.

1052
01:00:18,390 --> 01:00:23,070
Speaker 3: the otherworldly demonic rasping from the prologue comes back. Remember

1053
01:00:23,110 --> 01:00:27,050
Speaker 3: when Alucarda's mother was laying on the pile of hay

1054
01:00:27,130 --> 01:00:29,990
Speaker 3: and there was the rasping from the statue? Now we

1055
01:00:30,010 --> 01:00:33,250
Speaker 3: hear the rasping again, and it is affecting the characters.

1056
01:00:33,330 --> 01:00:37,980
Speaker 3: It seems to be causing immense, stabbing, psychic pain in

1057
01:00:38,120 --> 01:00:42,780
Speaker 3: Alucarda and Justine, and they scream and they run away. Now, Rob,

1058
01:00:42,800 --> 01:00:45,780
Speaker 3: do you have a take on all this stuff that's

1059
01:00:45,820 --> 01:00:46,420
Speaker 3: just happened?

1060
01:00:46,440 --> 01:00:46,680
Speaker 4: I mean.

1061
01:00:47,880 --> 01:00:51,550
Speaker 1: I don't have what feels like a 100% clear read

1062
01:00:51,700 --> 01:00:53,650
Speaker 1: on it. But, I mean, on one hand, it's like

1063
01:00:54,370 --> 01:00:57,110
Speaker 1: their occult bonding got a little out of hand and

1064
01:00:57,150 --> 01:00:59,050
Speaker 1: they maybe bit off a little more than they could chew.

1065
01:00:59,130 --> 01:01:03,750
Speaker 1: That's one interpretation. Sure. And then one's actually presented with

1066
01:01:03,990 --> 01:01:08,080
Speaker 1: death in the form of this body. It is overwhelming.

1067
01:01:08,600 --> 01:01:13,540
Speaker 1: Or is it, in fact, psychically, spiritually overwhelming? And this

1068
01:01:13,600 --> 01:01:18,120
Speaker 1: is also brought on by the various... magical pacts that

1069
01:01:18,140 --> 01:01:21,200
Speaker 1: they are already dealing with here. But it is certainly

1070
01:01:21,240 --> 01:01:21,910
Speaker 1: a turning point.

1071
01:01:22,350 --> 01:01:25,390
Speaker 3: Yes. So the two of them go back to the convent.

1072
01:01:25,890 --> 01:01:28,330
Speaker 3: And then the next big scene we get with them

1073
01:01:28,490 --> 01:01:30,510
Speaker 3: is a scene where I guess it's Sunday morning and

1074
01:01:30,550 --> 01:01:34,070
Speaker 3: everybody's at chapel. They're sitting in the chapel for a

1075
01:01:34,150 --> 01:01:37,110
Speaker 3: church service that's like the best sermon of all time

1076
01:01:37,250 --> 01:01:39,010
Speaker 3: in the best chapel of all time.

1077
01:01:39,210 --> 01:01:42,980
Speaker 1: Oh, my God. Yes, the crypt-like heart of the convent,

1078
01:01:43,020 --> 01:01:47,960
Speaker 1: I guess, where the death-shrouded nuns gather to hear the tyrannical, threatening,

1079
01:01:48,000 --> 01:01:52,000
Speaker 1: and domineering sermons of Father Lazaro. Here to remind you

1080
01:01:52,020 --> 01:01:55,220
Speaker 1: that God is the one who can send you to hell,

1081
01:01:55,590 --> 01:01:57,340
Speaker 1: that all your sins are going to wind you up

1082
01:01:57,430 --> 01:01:59,450
Speaker 1: in hell, and that the devil wants to possess your

1083
01:01:59,490 --> 01:02:00,189
Speaker 1: body and soul.

1084
01:02:00,450 --> 01:02:02,930
Speaker 3: Yeah, can I read part of the sermon? He says,

1085
01:02:03,270 --> 01:02:05,910
Speaker 3: this is the very first thing we hear, by the way,

1086
01:02:06,030 --> 01:02:09,380
Speaker 3: nothing leading into this. The devil uses the body of

1087
01:02:09,420 --> 01:02:12,720
Speaker 3: the person he wants to master. He uses the organs

1088
01:02:12,800 --> 01:02:15,860
Speaker 3: of that body for his own pleasure. For the performing

1089
01:02:15,880 --> 01:02:19,420
Speaker 3: of such feats far above the capacity, strength, or agility

1090
01:02:19,580 --> 01:02:23,220
Speaker 3: of the person thus possessed. So it's like a very,

1091
01:02:23,240 --> 01:02:26,920
Speaker 3: I don't know, not like wisdom or values oriented. It's

1092
01:02:26,960 --> 01:02:30,060
Speaker 3: just like mechanically discussing the powers of the devil and

1093
01:02:30,120 --> 01:02:31,600
Speaker 3: how he will use your organs.

1094
01:02:31,840 --> 01:02:32,520
Speaker 1: Yes.

1095
01:02:32,760 --> 01:02:35,440
Speaker 3: And then he's describing to them in exquisite detail how

1096
01:02:35,460 --> 01:02:38,110
Speaker 3: they are all going to burn in hell forever. The

1097
01:02:38,170 --> 01:02:41,450
Speaker 3: wrath of Satan has no mercy. Repent. And this does

1098
01:02:41,530 --> 01:02:46,450
Speaker 3: lead to just an outpouring of, you know, crying out

1099
01:02:46,490 --> 01:02:49,990
Speaker 3: for God's mercy. People kind of screaming and jumping up

1100
01:02:50,070 --> 01:02:53,060
Speaker 3: in agony and terror and all that.

1101
01:02:53,720 --> 01:02:56,260
Speaker 1: And we already discussed the state of the nuns and

1102
01:02:56,280 --> 01:02:59,920
Speaker 1: their habits. But the chapel here, too, is just downright

1103
01:02:59,980 --> 01:03:04,060
Speaker 1: oppressive and grotesque. So hundreds of partially melted candles line

1104
01:03:04,100 --> 01:03:07,840
Speaker 1: the altar beneath numerous effigies of the crucified Christ. uh,

1105
01:03:08,010 --> 01:03:11,080
Speaker 1: effigies that Dole Green in the, that book, uh, the Mexican,

1106
01:03:11,180 --> 01:03:14,000
Speaker 1: the Mexican cinema of darkness describes as having the air

1107
01:03:14,020 --> 01:03:17,430
Speaker 1: of an abattoir. I mean, it's like hung meat above the,

1108
01:03:17,580 --> 01:03:20,790
Speaker 1: the altar. Uh, for me, they brought to mind the

1109
01:03:21,170 --> 01:03:24,430
Speaker 1: 16th century Eisenheim altarpiece. Uh, this is the one that

1110
01:03:24,490 --> 01:03:26,810
Speaker 1: has shows like the suffering of Christ as if Christ

1111
01:03:26,890 --> 01:03:30,280
Speaker 1: is diseased, but these just, I mean, this is a

1112
01:03:30,320 --> 01:03:32,740
Speaker 1: different message entirely. It's as like, it's as if the,

1113
01:03:34,090 --> 01:03:36,550
Speaker 1: This is a place where death and torment are worshipped.

1114
01:03:36,660 --> 01:03:39,420
Speaker 1: Just a nightmare image here, and perhaps one of the

1115
01:03:39,460 --> 01:03:42,800
Speaker 1: film's most direct visual messages. A place of the dismal

1116
01:03:42,860 --> 01:03:45,240
Speaker 1: spirit where the flesh dies and rots.

1117
01:03:46,020 --> 01:03:48,380
Speaker 3: I think one of the things to really emphasize, you

1118
01:03:48,420 --> 01:03:52,680
Speaker 3: did mention this, but the multitude of crucifixes. So it's

1119
01:03:52,790 --> 01:03:56,490
Speaker 3: not a chapel with one big crucifix at the top.

1120
01:03:56,910 --> 01:04:01,300
Speaker 3: There are dozens of crucified Christs all just hanging there

1121
01:04:02,000 --> 01:04:05,740
Speaker 3: in rows almost. It's like stadium seating of crucifixes up

1122
01:04:05,760 --> 01:04:09,410
Speaker 3: at the top above the altar. Yeah. Yeah. And this

1123
01:04:09,470 --> 01:04:12,290
Speaker 3: is what you're talking about with that abattoir feeling. It's

1124
01:04:12,330 --> 01:04:15,410
Speaker 3: like just rows and rows of hung meat, but they're

1125
01:04:15,510 --> 01:04:16,990
Speaker 3: all crucified Jesuses.

1126
01:04:17,270 --> 01:04:17,610
Speaker 4: Yeah.

1127
01:04:17,710 --> 01:04:22,360
Speaker 1: As if one sacrifice, one death was not enough. But instead,

1128
01:04:22,490 --> 01:04:28,150
Speaker 1: endless sacrifices, endless deaths are necessary. So just such an

1129
01:04:28,710 --> 01:04:30,410
Speaker 1: overbearing scene. Oh, my goodness.

1130
01:04:30,810 --> 01:04:33,130
Speaker 3: So I mentioned that in the middle of the sermon,

1131
01:04:33,310 --> 01:04:36,730
Speaker 3: it becomes so terrifying and painful that the nuns and

1132
01:04:36,750 --> 01:04:39,350
Speaker 3: the girls of the orphanage are like screaming for mercy.

1133
01:04:39,390 --> 01:04:42,430
Speaker 3: And they're like, no, no, no, I repent. And in

1134
01:04:42,470 --> 01:04:45,530
Speaker 3: the middle of all this frenzy, Justine passes out and

1135
01:04:45,570 --> 01:04:49,340
Speaker 3: falls unconscious on the floor. So she's unconscious and she

1136
01:04:49,420 --> 01:04:52,740
Speaker 3: is taken to her room to recover. Alucarda is left

1137
01:04:52,890 --> 01:04:57,910
Speaker 3: alone with her to watch over her. Good idea. So

1138
01:04:58,270 --> 01:05:04,900
Speaker 3: once the nuns have left the room, Alucarda says to her, Monsters, monsters,

1139
01:05:05,000 --> 01:05:07,280
Speaker 3: they have done this to you, yet you did not

1140
01:05:07,340 --> 01:05:10,580
Speaker 3: tell our secret. I have heard the voices again, Justine.

1141
01:05:11,310 --> 01:05:13,810
Speaker 3: And then she describes how the voices of the past

1142
01:05:13,870 --> 01:05:16,570
Speaker 3: came to her again. It's this evocative description where they're

1143
01:05:16,610 --> 01:05:19,450
Speaker 3: coming out of the woods, they're in the branches high

1144
01:05:19,470 --> 01:05:22,010
Speaker 3: in the tops of the trees, and the voices made

1145
01:05:22,070 --> 01:05:24,910
Speaker 3: everything clear to her. She says, there's no one left

1146
01:05:24,990 --> 01:05:27,530
Speaker 3: but you and me, just you and me, Justine. We

1147
01:05:27,570 --> 01:05:30,310
Speaker 3: will make them pay bit by bit all that has

1148
01:05:30,350 --> 01:05:33,630
Speaker 3: been taken from us. And I'm wondering what this refers

1149
01:05:33,690 --> 01:05:36,570
Speaker 3: to here. I think you can make an argument that

1150
01:05:36,610 --> 01:05:43,280
Speaker 3: they certainly live in a generally oppressive and repressive culture

1151
01:05:43,300 --> 01:05:46,260
Speaker 3: and situation. I mean, we just saw this terrifying sermon.

1152
01:05:46,780 --> 01:05:50,520
Speaker 3: But then again, they haven't, like, narratively, there hasn't been

1153
01:05:50,580 --> 01:05:53,610
Speaker 3: a specific thing that has been taken from them so far,

1154
01:05:53,690 --> 01:05:55,010
Speaker 3: unless there's something I'm forgetting.

1155
01:05:55,030 --> 01:05:57,650
Speaker 1: Yeah, unless they're referring to things that have been taken

1156
01:05:57,710 --> 01:05:59,910
Speaker 1: from them in life, their parents and so forth.

1157
01:06:00,050 --> 01:06:00,690
Speaker 3: Exactly, yeah.

1158
01:06:00,710 --> 01:06:00,790
Speaker 4: Yeah.

1159
01:06:01,490 --> 01:06:03,710
Speaker 1: But for the most part, like as oppressive as that

1160
01:06:03,750 --> 01:06:07,170
Speaker 1: sequence in the chapel is, it's like, oh, Justine passed out.

1161
01:06:07,230 --> 01:06:08,810
Speaker 1: Take her to the room and she can have a

1162
01:06:08,830 --> 01:06:10,570
Speaker 1: little time out. It's not like prop her up and

1163
01:06:10,590 --> 01:06:11,180
Speaker 1: make her watch.

1164
01:06:20,500 --> 01:06:25,340
Speaker 3: Then Alucarda really gets going. She begins calling out these

1165
01:06:25,740 --> 01:06:29,560
Speaker 3: names of what are presumably demons. I didn't recognize a

1166
01:06:29,580 --> 01:06:31,240
Speaker 3: lot of the names and they didn't show up in

1167
01:06:31,260 --> 01:06:33,560
Speaker 3: the subtitles I was watching, but one of the names

1168
01:06:33,600 --> 01:06:36,500
Speaker 3: she says is Astaroth, which I know is a classic,

1169
01:06:37,400 --> 01:06:40,280
Speaker 3: one of the names that appears in these manuals of demonology.

1170
01:06:41,040 --> 01:06:45,090
Speaker 3: So she's calling out Astaroth, you know, Secundus, whatever all

1171
01:06:45,130 --> 01:06:48,490
Speaker 3: the names are. And she ends up spinning around in

1172
01:06:48,530 --> 01:06:53,330
Speaker 3: a dizzy mania, screaming Satan, Satan, Satan. and she knocks

1173
01:06:53,410 --> 01:06:56,950
Speaker 3: Justine to the ground. So here, I guess we could

1174
01:06:56,990 --> 01:07:01,650
Speaker 3: pause and talk a bit about what is happening to

1175
01:07:01,770 --> 01:07:06,950
Speaker 3: Alucarda and different ways you could interpret this film. I

1176
01:07:06,990 --> 01:07:10,590
Speaker 3: guess at the top level, you could ask, is this

1177
01:07:10,730 --> 01:07:14,340
Speaker 3: true demonic possession, or could this be taken as hallucination

1178
01:07:14,410 --> 01:07:16,760
Speaker 3: and delusion? I know that tension is played with in

1179
01:07:16,880 --> 01:07:20,540
Speaker 3: some nunsploitation films or films that you know, have to

1180
01:07:20,580 --> 01:07:24,380
Speaker 3: do with religious mania in a, you know, pre-modern Catholic context.

1181
01:07:24,960 --> 01:07:27,470
Speaker 3: I really don't think that is an option we can

1182
01:07:27,510 --> 01:07:30,790
Speaker 3: debate in this film. It's just clear, especially through later

1183
01:07:30,850 --> 01:07:33,670
Speaker 3: events in the movie, that this is true demonic possession

1184
01:07:33,710 --> 01:07:36,250
Speaker 3: and the devil is real and the demons are getting you.

1185
01:07:36,890 --> 01:07:41,350
Speaker 1: Yeah, or at least, at the very least, the supernatural

1186
01:07:41,430 --> 01:07:42,930
Speaker 1: element is a reality.

1187
01:07:43,250 --> 01:07:43,550
Speaker 3: Yeah.

1188
01:07:43,650 --> 01:07:47,750
Speaker 1: Like, that seems to become clear, as clear as anything is,

1189
01:07:48,490 --> 01:07:49,590
Speaker 1: towards the end of this picture.

1190
01:07:50,070 --> 01:07:52,420
Speaker 3: But there is a second level of questions that we

1191
01:07:52,440 --> 01:07:56,500
Speaker 3: can ask about it. If this is demonic possession, what

1192
01:07:56,700 --> 01:08:01,140
Speaker 3: is causing it? It almost seems overdetermined. There are too

1193
01:08:01,200 --> 01:08:03,490
Speaker 3: many different things you can point to being like, well,

1194
01:08:03,530 --> 01:08:07,130
Speaker 3: that is the cause. There are several things. Was Alucarda

1195
01:08:07,330 --> 01:08:10,550
Speaker 3: born with some kind of demonic curse? That is suggested

1196
01:08:10,610 --> 01:08:14,330
Speaker 3: by the prologue. Something is hunting her the moment she's born.

1197
01:08:15,380 --> 01:08:18,479
Speaker 3: Or did an entity attack her or make her vulnerable

1198
01:08:18,600 --> 01:08:21,520
Speaker 3: at a specific point for a specific reason? We've almost

1199
01:08:21,540 --> 01:08:26,030
Speaker 3: got multiple scenes pointing to that as well. For one thing,

1200
01:08:26,150 --> 01:08:29,889
Speaker 3: the curse seems to be linked to her love for Justine,

1201
01:08:30,910 --> 01:08:34,790
Speaker 3: like that they're being sort of demonically persecuted for their

1202
01:08:34,810 --> 01:08:37,889
Speaker 3: love for each other. That seems like a valid interpretation.

1203
01:08:38,330 --> 01:08:40,939
Speaker 3: The other thing is, like, did she invite this by

1204
01:08:40,979 --> 01:08:44,099
Speaker 3: her interactions with the Goatman and wanting the magic knife

1205
01:08:44,200 --> 01:08:46,740
Speaker 3: and all that? Did they invite this when they opened

1206
01:08:46,800 --> 01:08:50,969
Speaker 3: the coffin of Lucy and let out that rasp? It

1207
01:08:51,120 --> 01:08:53,950
Speaker 3: seems like maybe the answer to all these questions is yes,

1208
01:08:54,030 --> 01:08:55,350
Speaker 3: which is just more confusing.

1209
01:08:55,990 --> 01:08:58,410
Speaker 1: Yeah, the film isn't very it's like this is not

1210
01:08:58,430 --> 01:09:00,610
Speaker 1: one of those films where alucarda is eventually going to

1211
01:09:00,630 --> 01:09:03,650
Speaker 1: be like alucarda is no more there is only zool

1212
01:09:03,710 --> 01:09:06,990
Speaker 1: or something like you're even wondering to what extent she

1213
01:09:07,070 --> 01:09:11,180
Speaker 1: is truly possessed by some other force or is this

1214
01:09:11,240 --> 01:09:14,800
Speaker 1: just pure alucarda um and then and then on top

1215
01:09:14,840 --> 01:09:18,620
Speaker 1: of that questions of hallucination and delusion or supernatural reality

1216
01:09:19,580 --> 01:09:23,900
Speaker 1: The film manages, you know, through its more surreal aspects

1217
01:09:23,939 --> 01:09:27,180
Speaker 1: to kind of have it both ways, which I think

1218
01:09:27,220 --> 01:09:31,099
Speaker 1: is one of its strengths. Doyle Green in his book

1219
01:09:31,500 --> 01:09:35,900
Speaker 1: comments on this. He argues, quote, it's not that the

1220
01:09:35,939 --> 01:09:40,260
Speaker 1: subjective and objective moments are ambiguous and therefore demand clarification,

1221
01:09:40,680 --> 01:09:43,900
Speaker 1: but rather that the scenes become subjective and objective at

1222
01:09:43,939 --> 01:09:48,870
Speaker 1: the same time. And thus any clarification becomes impossible. And

1223
01:09:48,890 --> 01:09:51,550
Speaker 1: so he ultimately argues for like just the pure evocative

1224
01:09:51,610 --> 01:09:54,860
Speaker 1: power of images in this film as being like really

1225
01:09:55,040 --> 01:09:56,259
Speaker 1: like the main feature.

1226
01:09:57,420 --> 01:10:00,080
Speaker 3: If I'm understanding him correctly, I agree with that. Then

1227
01:10:00,260 --> 01:10:03,920
Speaker 3: it's not that it is just one way and the

1228
01:10:03,979 --> 01:10:07,000
Speaker 3: film does a poor job of explaining which way it is.

1229
01:10:07,100 --> 01:10:10,200
Speaker 3: It's more like it is being definitely indicated that it

1230
01:10:10,300 --> 01:10:12,240
Speaker 3: is multiple ways at the same time.

1231
01:10:12,260 --> 01:10:12,580
Speaker 1: Yeah.

1232
01:10:13,400 --> 01:10:15,720
Speaker 3: And to expand on that, let me go back on

1233
01:10:15,780 --> 01:10:17,519
Speaker 3: something I said a minute ago. I think when you

1234
01:10:17,560 --> 01:10:20,150
Speaker 3: sort of contradicted me, you were right that it's not

1235
01:10:20,189 --> 01:10:25,349
Speaker 3: necessarily that it's definitely demon possession, but there are elements

1236
01:10:25,450 --> 01:10:28,429
Speaker 3: of the movie where if you take them at face value,

1237
01:10:28,650 --> 01:10:33,400
Speaker 3: it's definitely magic. But it's not. But like, where is

1238
01:10:33,410 --> 01:10:37,200
Speaker 3: the magic coming from? You suggested there's there's the we

1239
01:10:37,240 --> 01:10:40,740
Speaker 3: have the demon interpretation, but you also suggested pure Alucarda

1240
01:10:40,820 --> 01:10:42,760
Speaker 3: and some things point to pure Alucarda.

1241
01:10:43,280 --> 01:10:45,849
Speaker 1: Yeah, like eventually she's going to make people burst into flames,

1242
01:10:45,910 --> 01:10:49,010
Speaker 1: as we've been alluding to. Is it hellfire working through her?

1243
01:10:49,030 --> 01:10:51,550
Speaker 1: Is she possessed by a demon? Or is it more like,

1244
01:10:52,030 --> 01:10:54,050
Speaker 1: and it's often compared to, you know, Carrie or something.

1245
01:10:54,090 --> 01:10:57,390
Speaker 1: Is this just like psychic powers of Alucarda? Right. You know,

1246
01:10:57,750 --> 01:11:00,190
Speaker 1: what's going on? We can't decide one way or another.

1247
01:11:00,400 --> 01:11:02,760
Speaker 3: Yeah, and that's where I agree. We get indications going

1248
01:11:02,800 --> 01:11:03,860
Speaker 3: in both directions.

1249
01:11:03,939 --> 01:11:04,740
Speaker 1: Yeah.

1250
01:11:04,800 --> 01:11:08,680
Speaker 3: Now, one indication that it is external outside forces is

1251
01:11:08,720 --> 01:11:11,640
Speaker 3: something that's about to happen here, which is the ritual scene.

1252
01:11:12,120 --> 01:11:15,550
Speaker 3: So right after Alucarda first seems possessed or whatever it

1253
01:11:15,630 --> 01:11:18,370
Speaker 3: is and starts calling out the names of demons, we

1254
01:11:19,250 --> 01:11:24,330
Speaker 3: almost like ascend into another realm of reality where it's

1255
01:11:24,470 --> 01:11:27,129
Speaker 3: like you're in a dream. Sort of the lights change

1256
01:11:27,210 --> 01:11:29,450
Speaker 3: on the scene and now some of the walls in

1257
01:11:29,470 --> 01:11:31,689
Speaker 3: the room are gone and the Goatman comes in.

1258
01:11:32,110 --> 01:11:35,030
Speaker 1: Oh God, this moment where the Goatman reappears right out

1259
01:11:35,050 --> 01:11:35,690
Speaker 1: of the shadows.

1260
01:11:35,900 --> 01:11:38,960
Speaker 3: Yes, amazing. So it's like we're as if we're in

1261
01:11:39,000 --> 01:11:42,100
Speaker 3: a dream suddenly going straight out of this room moment

1262
01:11:42,120 --> 01:11:45,559
Speaker 3: of what appeared to be objective reality the hunchback appears

1263
01:11:45,600 --> 01:11:48,689
Speaker 3: he again offers the knife to Alucarda the magic knife

1264
01:11:49,270 --> 01:11:51,689
Speaker 3: and Alucarda says we shall make a pact and we

1265
01:11:51,729 --> 01:11:54,790
Speaker 3: shall make them pay and the hunchback says yes we

1266
01:11:54,830 --> 01:11:58,390
Speaker 3: shall make them pay and the hunchback then calls down

1267
01:11:58,570 --> 01:12:01,670
Speaker 3: rain and thunder from the sky which appear on command

1268
01:12:02,170 --> 01:12:05,150
Speaker 3: while Alucarda calls out again the names of the nine

1269
01:12:05,189 --> 01:12:08,030
Speaker 3: kings of hell and now the thunder and the lightning

1270
01:12:08,070 --> 01:12:11,639
Speaker 3: are cracking there is fog billowing all around And suddenly

1271
01:12:11,760 --> 01:12:17,080
Speaker 3: Alucarda and Justine kneel facing one another, naked and entranced

1272
01:12:17,140 --> 01:12:22,060
Speaker 3: with evil magic. And it's this blood bond they are

1273
01:12:22,120 --> 01:12:26,550
Speaker 3: creating with each other of love and violence, where they

1274
01:12:26,650 --> 01:12:30,190
Speaker 3: cut each other's skin, taste each other's blood, and then

1275
01:12:30,310 --> 01:12:33,490
Speaker 3: kiss with their blood mingled on their lips. And the

1276
01:12:33,530 --> 01:12:36,730
Speaker 3: hunchback is presiding over this whole ritual like a priest

1277
01:12:36,770 --> 01:12:40,420
Speaker 3: of evil. He says, you shall blend into one another

1278
01:12:40,860 --> 01:12:46,410
Speaker 3: and then blend into me. So like infinite love, infinite Satan.

1279
01:12:46,790 --> 01:12:48,850
Speaker 1: Yeah. Satanic marriage ritual, really.

1280
01:12:48,870 --> 01:12:49,110
Speaker 4: Yeah.

1281
01:12:49,130 --> 01:12:52,430
Speaker 3: Yeah. And then from here, the characters have already moved

1282
01:12:52,470 --> 01:12:57,750
Speaker 3: into this weird anti-reality dream state. And they seem to

1283
01:12:57,810 --> 01:13:00,810
Speaker 3: progress even further out of the scene, out of the

1284
01:13:00,890 --> 01:13:04,350
Speaker 3: real basis of the scene into some kind of cosmic

1285
01:13:04,510 --> 01:13:08,610
Speaker 3: meeting or union with With a witch's coven, including the

1286
01:13:08,689 --> 01:13:13,250
Speaker 3: fortune teller from earlier, I believe. And it's her and

1287
01:13:13,330 --> 01:13:15,430
Speaker 3: all of these other people who we don't know who

1288
01:13:15,470 --> 01:13:18,719
Speaker 3: these people are, but they're these people naked in the forest,

1289
01:13:19,220 --> 01:13:22,740
Speaker 3: dancing in a circle with fires all around, praising the

1290
01:13:22,820 --> 01:13:26,330
Speaker 3: demons who give them power and liberty. And then finally,

1291
01:13:26,350 --> 01:13:31,349
Speaker 3: a figure appears between Justine and Alucarda in full goat form. Now,

1292
01:13:31,689 --> 01:13:34,080
Speaker 3: no longer just a man who looks like a goat,

1293
01:13:34,180 --> 01:13:36,559
Speaker 3: but just a goat head, a Baphomet.

1294
01:13:37,040 --> 01:13:43,479
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah. And he moves among them, encourages them to kiss,

1295
01:13:43,840 --> 01:13:48,400
Speaker 1: and also encourages the orgiastic rites that begin to... take

1296
01:13:48,479 --> 01:13:50,640
Speaker 1: place all around him on the grass.

1297
01:13:51,780 --> 01:13:54,270
Speaker 3: Some parts of this are staged in a very funny way,

1298
01:13:54,310 --> 01:13:56,860
Speaker 3: by the way, like all the witches are out there, uh,

1299
01:13:56,970 --> 01:13:59,330
Speaker 3: you know, getting busy and the, and the devil figure

1300
01:13:59,370 --> 01:14:01,549
Speaker 3: is like, no, that here, let me show you how.

1301
01:14:01,570 --> 01:14:04,689
Speaker 1: To have sex. Kind of like nuzzling their hair, like

1302
01:14:04,710 --> 01:14:06,810
Speaker 1: coming up, like messing their hair up a little bit. Yeah.

1303
01:14:06,830 --> 01:14:06,970
Speaker 4: Yeah.

1304
01:14:07,050 --> 01:14:07,630
Speaker 3: Do that there.

1305
01:14:07,670 --> 01:14:07,970
Speaker 2: Yeah.

1306
01:14:08,990 --> 01:14:13,800
Speaker 3: Um, uh, but yeah, it seems to be a celebration of, um,

1307
01:14:14,080 --> 01:14:15,540
Speaker 3: of satanic libertinism.

1308
01:14:16,470 --> 01:14:18,430
Speaker 1: Yeah. And then at the same time, we cut back

1309
01:14:18,470 --> 01:14:20,389
Speaker 1: to Sister Angelica in her room.

1310
01:14:20,850 --> 01:14:23,939
Speaker 3: This was the thing that really like changed because, you know,

1311
01:14:23,979 --> 01:14:26,820
Speaker 3: we've seen movies with devil worship before. We've seen scenes

1312
01:14:26,860 --> 01:14:28,500
Speaker 3: kind of like this. This is the thing where it

1313
01:14:28,520 --> 01:14:29,540
Speaker 3: gets really different.

1314
01:14:30,050 --> 01:14:32,790
Speaker 1: Yeah, because Sister Angelica is back there and she's in

1315
01:14:32,810 --> 01:14:39,200
Speaker 1: her room praying just fervently for Alucard's soul. I believe

1316
01:14:39,220 --> 01:14:42,260
Speaker 1: it's Alicarta she's praying for specifically. Maybe Justine as well.

1317
01:14:42,280 --> 01:14:43,439
Speaker 3: Maybe Justine. I'm not sure.

1318
01:14:43,479 --> 01:14:45,560
Speaker 1: I can't remember which girl or if it's both girls

1319
01:14:45,580 --> 01:14:49,400
Speaker 1: she's praying for. But, oh, she's praying so hard. And

1320
01:14:50,140 --> 01:14:52,920
Speaker 1: also kind of imagining the sort of things that they

1321
01:14:52,960 --> 01:14:56,300
Speaker 1: might be getting up to. You could even interpret it

1322
01:14:56,460 --> 01:14:59,939
Speaker 1: as if she is imagining the Black Mass that we

1323
01:14:59,970 --> 01:15:02,780
Speaker 1: just saw and are seeing in her cut with this scene.

1324
01:15:03,280 --> 01:15:07,059
Speaker 1: And so she prays that God protect them and prays

1325
01:15:07,180 --> 01:15:09,780
Speaker 1: so hard that blood begins to seep, I think, first

1326
01:15:09,820 --> 01:15:12,920
Speaker 1: from her nostril and or her eye. And then it's

1327
01:15:12,960 --> 01:15:16,769
Speaker 1: eventually just blood is coming out through her pores until

1328
01:15:16,890 --> 01:15:20,309
Speaker 1: finally she succeeds in convincing God, so it would seem,

1329
01:15:20,670 --> 01:15:23,110
Speaker 1: to strike one of the witches dead with like a

1330
01:15:23,229 --> 01:15:25,670
Speaker 1: gory smite to the neck. So we don't see the

1331
01:15:25,689 --> 01:15:28,670
Speaker 1: hand of God. We don't see a thunderbolt. She's praying,

1332
01:15:28,729 --> 01:15:31,389
Speaker 1: she's praying. And then one of the witches is just

1333
01:15:31,550 --> 01:15:35,390
Speaker 1: the main witch falls to the ground with this bloody

1334
01:15:35,450 --> 01:15:36,840
Speaker 1: gash in her neck, dead.

1335
01:15:37,300 --> 01:15:40,179
Speaker 3: She invokes a death curse from God.

1336
01:15:40,620 --> 01:15:40,939
Speaker 4: Yes.

1337
01:15:41,180 --> 01:15:43,820
Speaker 1: And then we cut back to her and she's levitating,

1338
01:15:44,720 --> 01:15:47,880
Speaker 1: just exuberant in her room with this like weird light,

1339
01:15:48,740 --> 01:15:51,740
Speaker 1: plane of light coming through the window. It's, oh, it's

1340
01:15:51,820 --> 01:15:55,100
Speaker 1: so weird. And this is what Angelica has up to

1341
01:15:55,120 --> 01:15:58,000
Speaker 1: this point been one of our more, you know, seemingly

1342
01:15:58,040 --> 01:16:01,259
Speaker 1: well-meaning and relatable characters. She's the good nun, remember?

1343
01:16:01,460 --> 01:16:01,880
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah.

1344
01:16:02,560 --> 01:16:07,300
Speaker 1: But here she is prayed with such self-destructive intensity, killing

1345
01:16:07,840 --> 01:16:11,439
Speaker 1: a stranger out in the world, but also blood flowing

1346
01:16:11,540 --> 01:16:16,219
Speaker 1: out of her face to do so. This scene is amazing.

1347
01:16:17,300 --> 01:16:19,479
Speaker 3: And that is the end of part one of the film.

1348
01:16:19,550 --> 01:16:21,590
Speaker 3: I guess you could say the end of the first act.

1349
01:16:22,350 --> 01:16:26,189
Speaker 3: And it transitions after this to the second part. Maybe

1350
01:16:26,229 --> 01:16:28,870
Speaker 3: we'll be a little bit more summary in our discussions

1351
01:16:28,930 --> 01:16:33,370
Speaker 3: from here on. But one of the big inciting incidents

1352
01:16:33,750 --> 01:16:35,689
Speaker 3: uh in the second act here is the scene in

1353
01:16:35,729 --> 01:16:39,389
Speaker 3: the school room where we have justine and alucarda sitting

1354
01:16:39,410 --> 01:16:41,090
Speaker 3: in the back you know they're sitting in the back

1355
01:16:41,110 --> 01:16:43,530
Speaker 3: so they can cut up during class they're being instructed

1356
01:16:43,610 --> 01:16:45,760
Speaker 3: about i don't remember what the lesson is it's something

1357
01:16:45,800 --> 01:16:48,820
Speaker 3: about you know god is good and the girls are

1358
01:16:48,979 --> 01:16:53,259
Speaker 3: whispering to each other acting up and uh the teacher

1359
01:16:53,360 --> 01:16:56,479
Speaker 3: is like hey now is it sister germanna who's teaching

1360
01:16:56,500 --> 01:16:59,100
Speaker 3: i think so yes yeah It's like, hey, now, I

1361
01:16:59,640 --> 01:17:01,660
Speaker 3: see you acting up in class. Could you please stand

1362
01:17:01,740 --> 01:17:04,630
Speaker 3: up and repeat what I was just saying? And so,

1363
01:17:04,650 --> 01:17:07,610
Speaker 3: is it Alucarda or Justine who stands up? Maybe they

1364
01:17:07,650 --> 01:17:12,090
Speaker 3: both do. And they begin to recite what at first

1365
01:17:12,130 --> 01:17:15,530
Speaker 3: sounds like what the teacher was saying, but instead turns

1366
01:17:15,610 --> 01:17:19,630
Speaker 3: into a speech on the virtues of Satan and the

1367
01:17:19,670 --> 01:17:21,070
Speaker 3: deficiencies of Christ.

1368
01:17:21,189 --> 01:17:25,040
Speaker 1: Yes. Things get out of hand fast. Yeah.

1369
01:17:25,160 --> 01:17:28,260
Speaker 3: So the, obviously the nuns are having none of that

1370
01:17:28,340 --> 01:17:30,920
Speaker 3: and they dismiss class and they're like, okay, we got

1371
01:17:30,939 --> 01:17:34,500
Speaker 3: to deal with this problem. Uh, so they call in

1372
01:17:34,620 --> 01:17:38,600
Speaker 3: father Lazaro to set things right. Uh, they're, they're first

1373
01:17:38,660 --> 01:17:42,390
Speaker 3: going to have Alucarda go to confession with father Lazaro. Uh,

1374
01:17:43,430 --> 01:17:46,050
Speaker 3: and he like gets into the confession booth and she

1375
01:17:46,570 --> 01:17:47,830
Speaker 3: violently attacks him.

1376
01:17:48,670 --> 01:17:48,970
Speaker 4: Yeah.

1377
01:17:49,210 --> 01:17:53,340
Speaker 3: And this eventually gives way to the flagellation scene that

1378
01:17:53,360 --> 01:17:56,630
Speaker 3: we were talking about earlier, where Father Lazaro and all

1379
01:17:56,689 --> 01:18:00,070
Speaker 3: the nuns are subjecting themselves to a good hard whipping

1380
01:18:00,150 --> 01:18:02,510
Speaker 3: while they're figuring out how to solve this problem. And

1381
01:18:02,550 --> 01:18:05,350
Speaker 3: this was both horrifying and hilarious.

1382
01:18:05,729 --> 01:18:07,670
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, because we cut right to it. They've been

1383
01:18:07,689 --> 01:18:12,689
Speaker 1: whipping on themselves for like an hour, bloody backs, sweating. Yeah,

1384
01:18:12,950 --> 01:18:14,639
Speaker 1: it's gross and a little hilarious.

1385
01:18:15,479 --> 01:18:17,340
Speaker 3: There's a part in here where one of the nuns

1386
01:18:17,400 --> 01:18:21,269
Speaker 3: explains that when Justine fell ill, because Justine, again, she

1387
01:18:22,050 --> 01:18:25,690
Speaker 3: falls ill and has to take to bed after this

1388
01:18:25,770 --> 01:18:28,530
Speaker 3: outburst in the classroom. One of the nuns says that

1389
01:18:28,550 --> 01:18:31,690
Speaker 3: when Justine fell ill, she was complaining about being bothered

1390
01:18:31,729 --> 01:18:35,530
Speaker 3: by the light. And Father Lazaro says, that's it, a

1391
01:18:35,590 --> 01:18:39,990
Speaker 3: heliophobic demon. That's a sixth category devil who hates light.

1392
01:18:42,250 --> 01:18:45,420
Speaker 1: That was good. So now we have marching orders, apparently. Though, again,

1393
01:18:45,479 --> 01:18:48,220
Speaker 1: this is the line that's also hilarious because this isn't

1394
01:18:48,280 --> 01:18:51,420
Speaker 1: necessarily useful information. No, it's true at all. Not at all.

1395
01:18:51,500 --> 01:18:54,000
Speaker 3: He says it's a nocturnal demon and he says we

1396
01:18:54,020 --> 01:18:56,820
Speaker 3: have to destroy the demon to save the girls. We

1397
01:18:56,900 --> 01:18:59,019
Speaker 3: must prepare an exorcism.

1398
01:19:00,210 --> 01:19:04,430
Speaker 1: Yes. And as you might imagine, the exorcism is basically

1399
01:19:04,470 --> 01:19:09,510
Speaker 1: going to break down to just an awful exercise in torture.

1400
01:19:09,990 --> 01:19:15,290
Speaker 1: where both of the girls are strapped to cross-type forms

1401
01:19:15,450 --> 01:19:19,189
Speaker 1: in the chapel. And during the course of the exorcism,

1402
01:19:19,270 --> 01:19:21,990
Speaker 1: Justine is essentially murdered by the clergy.

1403
01:19:22,410 --> 01:19:25,049
Speaker 3: Right. So they torture her to death in an attempt

1404
01:19:25,189 --> 01:19:28,150
Speaker 3: to get the devil out of her. And I would

1405
01:19:28,189 --> 01:19:30,179
Speaker 3: say it is in this section of the movie where

1406
01:19:30,189 --> 01:19:33,500
Speaker 3: I'm like, oh, okay. So the clerics and the clergy

1407
01:19:33,540 --> 01:19:35,980
Speaker 3: here are the villains of the film. this is sort

1408
01:19:36,020 --> 01:19:40,170
Speaker 3: of an anti-clerical narrative about how whatever happened with Justine and,

1409
01:19:41,100 --> 01:19:45,059
Speaker 3: and Alucarda earlier, this is clearly an overreaction by the

1410
01:19:45,100 --> 01:19:49,660
Speaker 3: clergy where they are, you know, making monsters out of

1411
01:19:49,760 --> 01:19:53,729
Speaker 3: something less than monsters and then creating, you know, monstrous

1412
01:19:53,770 --> 01:19:57,309
Speaker 3: violence of their own. And that is also the opinion

1413
01:19:57,610 --> 01:20:00,589
Speaker 3: of Dr. Otzek when he shows up in the middle

1414
01:20:00,830 --> 01:20:04,780
Speaker 3: of this torture exorcism and and is like, in God's name,

1415
01:20:04,820 --> 01:20:09,599
Speaker 3: what are you doing? This is madness, superstition. And they

1416
01:20:09,620 --> 01:20:14,000
Speaker 3: just kind of tolerate him taking over the scene and

1417
01:20:14,040 --> 01:20:15,740
Speaker 3: being like, we have to put a stop to this

1418
01:20:15,800 --> 01:20:17,890
Speaker 3: at once. They're kind of like, okay.

1419
01:20:18,189 --> 01:20:21,450
Speaker 1: Well, it seems as if some of the members of

1420
01:20:21,490 --> 01:20:24,670
Speaker 1: the clergy realize they've gone too far, which they should.

1421
01:20:24,710 --> 01:20:27,170
Speaker 1: At this point, you have murdered somebody. You've tortured a

1422
01:20:27,189 --> 01:20:31,559
Speaker 1: woman to death. You have gone too far. And they're

1423
01:20:31,580 --> 01:20:34,080
Speaker 1: being called on it. And some of them are accepting

1424
01:20:34,120 --> 01:20:35,000
Speaker 1: that it has gotten out of hand.

1425
01:20:43,880 --> 01:20:47,589
Speaker 3: So Alucarda is still alive. Justine has died. But he

1426
01:20:47,650 --> 01:20:50,690
Speaker 3: takes Alucarda back to his house, taking pity on her,

1427
01:20:51,390 --> 01:20:53,670
Speaker 3: and takes her back to his house and leaves her

1428
01:20:53,750 --> 01:20:56,950
Speaker 3: with his daughter who he met earlier, his blind daughter, Daniela.

1429
01:20:57,570 --> 01:20:59,979
Speaker 1: This is a point, too, where we get the, I think,

1430
01:21:00,000 --> 01:21:03,120
Speaker 1: where we get the Dr. Osik research scene where he

1431
01:21:03,180 --> 01:21:05,420
Speaker 1: sits down in his study and he picks up a

1432
01:21:05,479 --> 01:21:08,620
Speaker 1: single volume, opens it up. We see the title of

1433
01:21:08,660 --> 01:21:11,600
Speaker 1: the book is Satan. This is a book about Satan.

1434
01:21:12,939 --> 01:21:16,520
Speaker 1: And he basically opens it up, turns to one of

1435
01:21:16,600 --> 01:21:19,939
Speaker 1: the illustrations, some sort of satanic woodcut with some sort

1436
01:21:19,979 --> 01:21:24,970
Speaker 1: of outrageous demonic body. And then that's just that's all

1437
01:21:25,010 --> 01:21:28,980
Speaker 1: it takes. He just slams the book and he's like preposterous. Yeah.

1438
01:21:29,780 --> 01:21:32,720
Speaker 3: Bunch of nonsense. And he gives a speech later about

1439
01:21:32,780 --> 01:21:35,320
Speaker 3: how he was educated in Paris to believe that this

1440
01:21:35,380 --> 01:21:38,509
Speaker 3: was all superstition and nonsense. And that, you know, we

1441
01:21:38,550 --> 01:21:41,170
Speaker 3: have we have to understand the world scientifically, not by

1442
01:21:41,210 --> 01:21:44,810
Speaker 3: believing in magic and demons. Right. So he has very

1443
01:21:44,850 --> 01:21:49,180
Speaker 3: little tolerance for demonology. But unfortunately. So while Alucarda and

1444
01:21:49,220 --> 01:21:51,510
Speaker 3: Daniela are sort of getting to know one another, I

1445
01:21:51,520 --> 01:21:53,970
Speaker 3: think Daniela is offering comfort to Alucarda.

1446
01:21:55,330 --> 01:21:55,590
Speaker 1: Dr.

1447
01:21:55,689 --> 01:21:57,790
Speaker 3: Osek is called back to the convent. He has to

1448
01:21:57,830 --> 01:22:02,230
Speaker 3: go there again because Justine's body has disappeared. Uh-oh.

1449
01:22:02,830 --> 01:22:06,650
Speaker 1: That's right. Yeah. What has happened? We have disappearing bodies.

1450
01:22:07,510 --> 01:22:11,710
Speaker 1: And then it is just kind of discovered that Sister

1451
01:22:11,750 --> 01:22:15,979
Speaker 1: Germana has been burned. Yes. And they find her hideously

1452
01:22:16,020 --> 01:22:19,370
Speaker 1: burned body. That's really gross, yeah. Yeah, really gross. They

1453
01:22:19,530 --> 01:22:22,290
Speaker 1: end up bringing that into the chapel, and basically there's

1454
01:22:22,310 --> 01:22:25,740
Speaker 1: this whole situation where Sister Germana's body is going to

1455
01:22:25,820 --> 01:22:29,580
Speaker 1: steadily come back to life as a zombie. They end

1456
01:22:29,700 --> 01:22:32,939
Speaker 1: up beheading it on the altar with a sword.

1457
01:22:33,420 --> 01:22:37,430
Speaker 3: Father Lazaro does. Well, it takes a lot of wax.

1458
01:22:37,530 --> 01:22:40,890
Speaker 3: He's just whacking it over and over and over and over.

1459
01:22:40,910 --> 01:22:43,590
Speaker 3: It's like, remember the episode we did on the guillotine

1460
01:22:43,630 --> 01:22:46,630
Speaker 3: with Jack Ketch, the executioner who could never do it right?

1461
01:22:47,630 --> 01:22:50,430
Speaker 3: So he's whacking the neck again and again and again. Eventually,

1462
01:22:50,490 --> 01:22:52,790
Speaker 3: the zombie's head comes off, and it's still sort of

1463
01:22:52,830 --> 01:22:54,570
Speaker 3: like chomping around on the ground, isn't it?

1464
01:22:54,720 --> 01:22:57,820
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah. And also the arms are still moving. It's

1465
01:22:58,100 --> 01:22:59,660
Speaker 1: like just a grotesque spectacle.

1466
01:23:00,340 --> 01:23:04,040
Speaker 3: And here is the scene, I mentioned this earlier, where Dr.

1467
01:23:04,160 --> 01:23:08,000
Speaker 3: Otzek is like, wow, that was a real-life zombie. I

1468
01:23:08,080 --> 01:23:13,170
Speaker 3: repent of my scientific materialism. I now understand that magic

1469
01:23:13,229 --> 01:23:16,710
Speaker 3: is real and the devil is real, and I am humbled.

1470
01:23:17,020 --> 01:23:20,200
Speaker 1: Yeah, and it's really interesting to try and figure out

1471
01:23:20,270 --> 01:23:23,290
Speaker 1: how to interpret this within the context of this film.

1472
01:23:23,910 --> 01:23:27,229
Speaker 1: Because I don't think this is a situation where Montezuma

1473
01:23:27,270 --> 01:23:32,830
Speaker 1: is ultimately trying to say, see, look, the so-called Renaissance people,

1474
01:23:33,850 --> 01:23:38,060
Speaker 1: the logical scientists and so forth, the philosophers must now

1475
01:23:38,140 --> 01:23:41,670
Speaker 1: realize the religious truth of the universe. But this kind

1476
01:23:41,689 --> 01:23:44,550
Speaker 1: of this feels like a tragedy in many ways, too,

1477
01:23:44,670 --> 01:23:46,970
Speaker 1: because this was our this guy was a rock of

1478
01:23:47,070 --> 01:23:48,269
Speaker 1: logic and reason.

1479
01:23:48,570 --> 01:23:50,610
Speaker 3: He was supposed to be the Sherlock Holmes of the story.

1480
01:23:50,729 --> 01:23:52,770
Speaker 1: Exactly. Yes. He was supposed to be the Sherlock Holmes

1481
01:23:52,790 --> 01:23:55,590
Speaker 1: of the story. And now he's like, actually, I think

1482
01:23:55,650 --> 01:23:59,849
Speaker 1: it's black magic. And and so, you know, he was

1483
01:23:59,870 --> 01:24:02,509
Speaker 1: he was a rock. And now everything is perhaps tumbling

1484
01:24:02,650 --> 01:24:04,889
Speaker 1: into supernatural madness.

1485
01:24:05,420 --> 01:24:08,340
Speaker 3: But in the scene, he is also made aware that, oh, yeah,

1486
01:24:08,439 --> 01:24:11,730
Speaker 3: Alucarda seems to be possessed by the devil. And he's like, oh, no,

1487
01:24:11,740 --> 01:24:12,830
Speaker 3: I left her with my kid.

1488
01:24:13,290 --> 01:24:13,430
Speaker 4: Yes.

1489
01:24:13,650 --> 01:24:13,870
Speaker 1: Yes.

1490
01:24:14,830 --> 01:24:17,170
Speaker 3: So he goes back to his house and they're gone.

1491
01:24:17,330 --> 01:24:21,219
Speaker 3: His daughter, Daniela, is gone. And so I think is

1492
01:24:21,229 --> 01:24:23,380
Speaker 3: there anything in between here before they end up back

1493
01:24:23,420 --> 01:24:27,430
Speaker 3: at the crypt or the abandoned palace where. They had

1494
01:24:27,450 --> 01:24:28,230
Speaker 3: been before.

1495
01:24:28,450 --> 01:24:32,180
Speaker 1: That's our main next destination. Yeah, that's our big set

1496
01:24:32,220 --> 01:24:34,439
Speaker 1: piece because, yeah, we get back to the abandoned palace,

1497
01:24:34,580 --> 01:24:38,260
Speaker 1: back to the casket, and this is when Justine comes

1498
01:24:38,340 --> 01:24:42,020
Speaker 1: back to life, rises from a casket that's full of

1499
01:24:42,080 --> 01:24:43,280
Speaker 1: blood like a bathtub.

1500
01:24:43,560 --> 01:24:44,020
Speaker 3: Amazing.

1501
01:24:44,180 --> 01:24:49,720
Speaker 1: Yeah, naked, covered in blood, now a vampire. This is

1502
01:24:49,780 --> 01:24:53,600
Speaker 1: as close as we, this is a true vampire. Montezuma

1503
01:24:53,640 --> 01:24:56,180
Speaker 1: in interviews is often like, very firm on the fact

1504
01:24:56,220 --> 01:24:59,660
Speaker 1: that Alucarda is not a vampire, but that he often,

1505
01:24:59,840 --> 01:25:03,420
Speaker 1: I've seen him stress that she has the powers that

1506
01:25:03,460 --> 01:25:07,160
Speaker 1: are attributed to Dracula in Bram Stoker's novel, but not

1507
01:25:08,000 --> 01:25:11,990
Speaker 1: blood drinking. So I don't know how to take all

1508
01:25:12,010 --> 01:25:15,170
Speaker 1: of that. But yeah, Justine definitely has come back as

1509
01:25:15,210 --> 01:25:15,650
Speaker 1: a vampire.

1510
01:25:15,850 --> 01:25:19,330
Speaker 3: Well, she's at least got some Bathory energy. She's bathing

1511
01:25:19,390 --> 01:25:22,990
Speaker 3: in blood, and she bites, is it the Mother Superior?

1512
01:25:23,090 --> 01:25:24,350
Speaker 3: One of the nuns, she bites her neck.

1513
01:25:24,370 --> 01:25:25,290
Speaker 1: Or Angelica, I think.

1514
01:25:25,590 --> 01:25:26,269
Speaker 3: Oh, Angelica.

1515
01:25:26,430 --> 01:25:27,480
Speaker 1: Oh, okay.

1516
01:25:27,600 --> 01:25:31,799
Speaker 3: One of the nuns, they're at the coffin, and she attacks,

1517
01:25:31,920 --> 01:25:34,120
Speaker 3: and Justine bites her on the neck. And I don't

1518
01:25:34,140 --> 01:25:36,140
Speaker 3: know if drinks her blood, but bites her on the

1519
01:25:36,180 --> 01:25:36,960
Speaker 3: neck and kills her.

1520
01:25:37,200 --> 01:25:38,940
Speaker 1: Yeah. I mean, she may have got a little in there,

1521
01:25:38,960 --> 01:25:39,700
Speaker 1: but she makes a mess.

1522
01:25:40,160 --> 01:25:43,580
Speaker 3: Now, what ultimately happens to Justine is, I recall this

1523
01:25:43,640 --> 01:25:46,490
Speaker 3: actually being one of the less impressive stagings. He's just

1524
01:25:46,530 --> 01:25:49,190
Speaker 3: kind of sloshing a bottle of holy water on her. Dr.

1525
01:25:49,229 --> 01:25:50,410
Speaker 3: Wozniak is like.

1526
01:25:51,110 --> 01:25:54,630
Speaker 1: Yeah, like, like he has multiple containers of holy water

1527
01:25:54,650 --> 01:25:57,219
Speaker 1: and he's throwing it at her. But and so but

1528
01:25:57,260 --> 01:25:59,700
Speaker 1: then we do see she keeps getting these like big

1529
01:26:00,260 --> 01:26:02,580
Speaker 1: burn marks on her back from where the splashes are

1530
01:26:02,600 --> 01:26:06,200
Speaker 1: hitting her like acid. And so it is also grotesque

1531
01:26:06,260 --> 01:26:09,340
Speaker 1: as well. And eventually this is just going to cause

1532
01:26:09,380 --> 01:26:11,650
Speaker 1: Justine to fall to the ground and disintegrate.

1533
01:26:11,939 --> 01:26:12,590
Speaker 3: She melts.

1534
01:26:12,910 --> 01:26:13,189
Speaker 1: Yeah.

1535
01:26:13,630 --> 01:26:18,250
Speaker 3: But then the final confrontation actually is with Alucarda. And

1536
01:26:18,550 --> 01:26:20,530
Speaker 3: does that happen here or back at the convent? I

1537
01:26:20,550 --> 01:26:22,030
Speaker 3: think maybe they go back to the convent.

1538
01:26:22,050 --> 01:26:25,470
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think, yeah, definitely our main, our final battle,

1539
01:26:25,530 --> 01:26:28,090
Speaker 1: our final showdown takes place in the convent itself with

1540
01:26:28,130 --> 01:26:33,030
Speaker 1: all of those creepy Christ effigies. And yeah, this is

1541
01:26:33,110 --> 01:26:38,549
Speaker 1: where Alucarda goes into full carry mode. you know, shouting

1542
01:26:38,590 --> 01:26:41,030
Speaker 1: the names of various demons. And when she does so,

1543
01:26:41,350 --> 01:26:45,710
Speaker 1: it causes various monks and nuns to just erupt into fire.

1544
01:26:45,790 --> 01:26:49,010
Speaker 1: And we get these terrifying man on fire stunts that

1545
01:26:49,130 --> 01:26:52,639
Speaker 1: I discussed earlier. I have no reason to believe anything

1546
01:26:52,700 --> 01:26:55,700
Speaker 1: here wasn't completely safe, or at least I've never read

1547
01:26:55,780 --> 01:26:58,820
Speaker 1: anything to the counter. But in general, even a very

1548
01:26:58,900 --> 01:27:02,970
Speaker 1: well done man on fire stunt just horrifies me these days.

1549
01:27:03,020 --> 01:27:07,990
Speaker 1: It's It's just terrifying to watch these people on fire

1550
01:27:08,050 --> 01:27:11,269
Speaker 1: running around, falling to the ground, burning and burning. And

1551
01:27:11,310 --> 01:27:13,410
Speaker 1: at times, you know, even kind of throwing me out

1552
01:27:13,430 --> 01:27:16,170
Speaker 1: of the film viewing experience because I'm like, we got

1553
01:27:16,189 --> 01:27:17,990
Speaker 1: to cut away. This scene has to stop. There's a

1554
01:27:17,990 --> 01:27:20,620
Speaker 1: guy on fire. Cut away and then you put him

1555
01:27:20,740 --> 01:27:25,520
Speaker 1: out after the shot is done. So horrifying stuff. Yes.

1556
01:27:25,600 --> 01:27:28,660
Speaker 3: And Alucard, of course, is filled with rage. This is

1557
01:27:28,700 --> 01:27:31,960
Speaker 3: yet another scene where I guess it would be worth

1558
01:27:32,200 --> 01:27:36,960
Speaker 3: asking What power is on display here? What power and

1559
01:27:37,020 --> 01:27:41,660
Speaker 3: what motivation are on display here? Are we seeing Alucarda's

1560
01:27:41,880 --> 01:27:47,260
Speaker 3: personal rage and her personal power, or is she possessed

1561
01:27:47,520 --> 01:27:49,840
Speaker 3: and is, as we heard in the sermon earlier, the

1562
01:27:49,920 --> 01:27:54,540
Speaker 3: devil acting through her against his own enemies and acting

1563
01:27:54,580 --> 01:27:55,759
Speaker 3: with his own power?

1564
01:27:57,439 --> 01:27:59,460
Speaker 1: You know, one way to potentially, I didn't really think

1565
01:27:59,479 --> 01:28:01,330
Speaker 1: about this till now, but one way to think about

1566
01:28:01,350 --> 01:28:03,890
Speaker 1: this film is what if there's only one power and

1567
01:28:03,910 --> 01:28:07,110
Speaker 1: it's working it's both sides are using it you know

1568
01:28:07,180 --> 01:28:10,120
Speaker 1: it's like that you know almost as if the the

1569
01:28:10,160 --> 01:28:13,660
Speaker 1: supernatural force itself is neutral but it only takes on

1570
01:28:13,720 --> 01:28:17,640
Speaker 1: these forms as it's like channeled through human ambitions and

1571
01:28:17,700 --> 01:28:20,360
Speaker 1: human religions and so forth like.

1572
01:28:20,270 --> 01:28:23,350
Speaker 3: A conventional war both sides can equally make use of

1573
01:28:23,390 --> 01:28:26,309
Speaker 3: the laws of physics and here in this religious war

1574
01:28:26,430 --> 01:28:28,870
Speaker 3: both sides can equally make use of magic.

1575
01:28:28,970 --> 01:28:31,750
Speaker 1: Yeah, and the magic that they use to counter her,

1576
01:28:31,770 --> 01:28:34,140
Speaker 1: or attempt to use to counter her, is basically bringing

1577
01:28:34,229 --> 01:28:38,700
Speaker 1: in the dead body of Sister Angelica and holding her

1578
01:28:38,840 --> 01:28:42,430
Speaker 1: up like a cross. which this is, yeah, I don't

1579
01:28:42,450 --> 01:28:45,350
Speaker 1: think I've ever seen this in a film where, you know,

1580
01:28:45,640 --> 01:28:47,530
Speaker 1: we've seen plenty of examples of a cross or a

1581
01:28:47,530 --> 01:28:50,760
Speaker 1: crucifix being utilized or some other holy item being used

1582
01:28:50,800 --> 01:28:54,200
Speaker 1: to shout down the adversary. But here they lift up

1583
01:28:54,479 --> 01:28:56,720
Speaker 1: the dead body of Angelica and hold her up like

1584
01:28:56,760 --> 01:28:57,160
Speaker 1: a cross.

1585
01:28:57,600 --> 01:29:02,349
Speaker 3: Now, another good question is, based on this scene, why

1586
01:29:02,410 --> 01:29:05,650
Speaker 3: do you think, because that is ultimately how Alucarda is defeated.

1587
01:29:06,110 --> 01:29:08,450
Speaker 3: Why do you think it works? Is it like the

1588
01:29:08,550 --> 01:29:13,850
Speaker 3: holy power destroys Alucarda or does that make Alucarda repent

1589
01:29:14,020 --> 01:29:17,259
Speaker 3: of her violence and destroy herself or what?

1590
01:29:17,500 --> 01:29:19,540
Speaker 1: I don't know. It's, it's hard to figure out. I mean,

1591
01:29:19,560 --> 01:29:22,019
Speaker 1: you could, you could certainly make a case that Angelica

1592
01:29:22,220 --> 01:29:24,660
Speaker 1: was one of the people that was, that was nice

1593
01:29:24,700 --> 01:29:26,740
Speaker 1: to her. I mean, she was nicer. We saw more

1594
01:29:26,760 --> 01:29:31,189
Speaker 1: of that between Angelica and Justine. Yes. Uh, So it's

1595
01:29:31,250 --> 01:29:35,320
Speaker 1: not a perfect explanation. Or maybe it's this that, you know,

1596
01:29:35,400 --> 01:29:37,939
Speaker 1: Alicarta has just used up all of her rage, you know?

1597
01:29:38,460 --> 01:29:41,560
Speaker 1: And at that point, like, it has consumed her, literally,

1598
01:29:41,660 --> 01:29:43,000
Speaker 1: and literally turns her to dust.

1599
01:29:44,590 --> 01:29:47,470
Speaker 3: And then, of course, at the end, strangely, I would

1600
01:29:47,510 --> 01:29:50,090
Speaker 3: have thought that Father Lazaro would be one of the

1601
01:29:50,330 --> 01:29:54,200
Speaker 3: people who gets burned by... But he, I think, survives

1602
01:29:54,280 --> 01:29:56,150
Speaker 3: this somehow. And then at the end, we've got kind

1603
01:29:56,189 --> 01:29:58,470
Speaker 3: of the doctor. We've got like science and religion just

1604
01:29:58,510 --> 01:30:01,630
Speaker 3: standing there side by side being like, wow, that was something.

1605
01:30:02,110 --> 01:30:02,410
Speaker 4: Yeah.

1606
01:30:02,650 --> 01:30:06,410
Speaker 1: But but but then the the the chapel is on fire.

1607
01:30:06,630 --> 01:30:10,340
Speaker 1: Everything is just in flames. And, you know, as Doyle

1608
01:30:10,380 --> 01:30:14,700
Speaker 1: Green points out in that in that book, The Mexican

1609
01:30:14,720 --> 01:30:17,360
Speaker 1: Cinema of Darkness, like it doesn't feel like a victory

1610
01:30:17,400 --> 01:30:20,469
Speaker 1: for anyone at the end. Alucard is not victorious. It

1611
01:30:20,510 --> 01:30:22,849
Speaker 1: doesn't really feel like a victory of logic and reason.

1612
01:30:22,890 --> 01:30:26,410
Speaker 1: It doesn't feel like a victory of the church and religion.

1613
01:30:27,729 --> 01:30:30,750
Speaker 1: He points out that in various other films, even films

1614
01:30:30,790 --> 01:30:35,000
Speaker 1: within the Mexican tradition, fire is used to secure victory,

1615
01:30:35,420 --> 01:30:38,520
Speaker 1: victory for science and reason, in many cases, over an

1616
01:30:38,700 --> 01:30:42,440
Speaker 1: obsolete and dangerous past. For instance, we see this in

1617
01:30:42,479 --> 01:30:45,340
Speaker 1: the Brainiac. At the end, how do they defeat the Brainiac,

1618
01:30:45,360 --> 01:30:48,330
Speaker 1: who himself is like an icon of a, of a

1619
01:30:48,350 --> 01:30:52,540
Speaker 1: troubling past in Mexico, they use flamethrowers, using fire against him.

1620
01:30:52,780 --> 01:30:54,260
Speaker 1: And we see that sort of thing in plenty of

1621
01:30:54,300 --> 01:30:58,100
Speaker 1: other horror movies. He writes, in Alucarda, the triumph of

1622
01:30:58,180 --> 01:31:01,360
Speaker 1: science or religion is turned on its head. The world

1623
01:31:01,420 --> 01:31:04,860
Speaker 1: in crisis defined by the unreasonable, the unexplainable, and the

1624
01:31:04,939 --> 01:31:09,730
Speaker 1: unsolvable is not salvaged by reason or faith. It is

1625
01:31:09,830 --> 01:31:14,650
Speaker 1: simply and completely obliterated in flames, the apocalyptic collision of

1626
01:31:14,710 --> 01:31:17,809
Speaker 1: modernity and tradition in a perpetual dark age.

1627
01:31:18,580 --> 01:31:19,260
Speaker 3: Interesting.

1628
01:31:19,300 --> 01:31:19,600
Speaker 1: Yeah.

1629
01:31:19,680 --> 01:31:22,920
Speaker 3: To the extent that any edifice of authority is victorious

1630
01:31:22,979 --> 01:31:27,220
Speaker 3: at the end of this film, it has not earned

1631
01:31:27,320 --> 01:31:30,880
Speaker 3: its victory. It is not victorious because of its virtues.

1632
01:31:31,280 --> 01:31:34,180
Speaker 3: It's more just kind of like, you know, there's this

1633
01:31:34,640 --> 01:31:38,320
Speaker 3: horrible consuming fire and it eventually burns itself out.

1634
01:31:38,650 --> 01:31:41,670
Speaker 1: Yeah. Logic and reason are just kind of standing by

1635
01:31:42,290 --> 01:31:47,400
Speaker 1: mouth agape. And if religion is victorious... It is because

1636
01:31:47,640 --> 01:31:52,939
Speaker 1: it has achieved victory through the glorification of death and suffering,

1637
01:31:53,300 --> 01:31:58,150
Speaker 1: like literally holding up the dead body and using it

1638
01:31:58,189 --> 01:32:03,189
Speaker 1: to channel its energy against the adversary here. Yeah, and

1639
01:32:03,210 --> 01:32:07,330
Speaker 1: then we cut to credits and burning, and that's the

1640
01:32:07,370 --> 01:32:07,930
Speaker 1: end of the movie.

1641
01:32:08,270 --> 01:32:11,160
Speaker 3: That's it. Well, Rob, I think this was a good pick.

1642
01:32:11,240 --> 01:32:13,840
Speaker 3: I greatly enjoyed Alucarda, and I haven't seen anything quite

1643
01:32:13,880 --> 01:32:14,440
Speaker 3: like it before.

1644
01:32:14,820 --> 01:32:18,200
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, it really, really stands out. So, you know,

1645
01:32:18,280 --> 01:32:21,420
Speaker 1: obviously not for everyone, though if you listen to this

1646
01:32:21,460 --> 01:32:23,000
Speaker 1: and it wasn't for you, you know it by now.

1647
01:32:24,920 --> 01:32:27,860
Speaker 1: But yeah, not for everyone, but I think a very

1648
01:32:27,960 --> 01:32:32,940
Speaker 1: fascinating film and one where you're really rewarded by rewatches

1649
01:32:33,040 --> 01:32:35,850
Speaker 1: as well. So we're going to go ahead and close

1650
01:32:35,900 --> 01:32:38,250
Speaker 1: it out here, but we'd love to hear from everyone

1651
01:32:38,290 --> 01:32:42,080
Speaker 1: out there. If you have thoughts on Alucardah, some of

1652
01:32:42,100 --> 01:32:45,019
Speaker 1: the other films we mentioned here, Mexican cinema, Mexican horror

1653
01:32:45,040 --> 01:32:47,580
Speaker 1: cinema in general, write in. We would love to hear

1654
01:32:47,680 --> 01:32:50,139
Speaker 1: from you. A reminder that Stuff to Blow Your Mind

1655
01:32:50,200 --> 01:32:52,720
Speaker 1: is primarily a science and culture podcast with core episodes

1656
01:32:52,979 --> 01:32:55,780
Speaker 1: on Tuesdays and Thursdays. But on Fridays, we set aside

1657
01:32:55,850 --> 01:32:58,030
Speaker 1: most serious concerns to just talk about a weird film

1658
01:32:58,270 --> 01:33:00,990
Speaker 1: on Weird House Cinema. And if you want to see

1659
01:33:01,030 --> 01:33:02,670
Speaker 1: a list of all the movies we've covered over the years,

1660
01:33:02,950 --> 01:33:06,570
Speaker 1: go to Letterboxd.com. Our username there is Weird House, and

1661
01:33:06,590 --> 01:33:08,389
Speaker 1: we've got a nice list going. You can see everything

1662
01:33:08,410 --> 01:33:10,809
Speaker 1: we've covered and sometimes a peek ahead at what's coming next.

1663
01:33:11,340 --> 01:33:13,920
Speaker 1: And as we get into October here, of course, it's

1664
01:33:13,939 --> 01:33:16,550
Speaker 1: going to mean a lot of Halloween-y choices.

1665
01:33:17,030 --> 01:33:21,030
Speaker 3: Huge thanks, as always, to our excellent audio producer, J.J. Posway.

1666
01:33:21,590 --> 01:33:23,170
Speaker 3: If you would like to get in touch with us

1667
01:33:23,229 --> 01:33:25,710
Speaker 3: with feedback on this episode or any other, to suggest

1668
01:33:25,770 --> 01:33:27,880
Speaker 3: a topic for the future, or just to say hello,

1669
01:33:27,939 --> 01:33:31,560
Speaker 3: you can email us at contact at stufftoblowyourmind.com.

1670
01:33:38,810 --> 01:33:41,230
Speaker 2: Stuff to Blow Your Mind is a production of iHeartRadio.

1671
01:33:41,610 --> 01:33:44,950
Speaker 2: For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app. Apple

1672
01:33:44,970 --> 01:33:47,310
Speaker 2: Podcasts are wherever you listen to your favorite shows.