1 00:00:22,320 --> 00:00:28,440 Speaker 1: Take a deep breath in through your nose. Else hold 2 00:00:28,520 --> 00:00:56,560 Speaker 1: it now, release slowly again deep inhale, hold release, repeating 3 00:00:56,760 --> 00:01:04,400 Speaker 1: internally to yourself as you connect my voice. I am deeply, 4 00:01:04,840 --> 00:01:21,840 Speaker 1: deeply well. I am deeply deep well. I am deeply wow. 5 00:01:24,959 --> 00:01:29,680 Speaker 1: I'm Debbie Brown and this is the Deeply Well podcast. 6 00:01:35,920 --> 00:01:39,000 Speaker 1: Welcome to Deeply Well. I'm your host, Debbie Brown, and 7 00:01:39,120 --> 00:01:44,040 Speaker 1: as always, we are diving into the crevices in service 8 00:01:44,120 --> 00:01:49,840 Speaker 1: to expansion this episode. I am so excited to bring 9 00:01:50,160 --> 00:01:54,280 Speaker 1: back to the show one of by far the most 10 00:01:54,360 --> 00:02:00,600 Speaker 1: cult classic favorite episodes. The amount of messages got about 11 00:02:00,600 --> 00:02:03,360 Speaker 1: the episode that I did last season with this amazing 12 00:02:03,440 --> 00:02:04,360 Speaker 1: man was just. 13 00:02:04,360 --> 00:02:04,960 Speaker 2: Through the roof. 14 00:02:05,200 --> 00:02:08,280 Speaker 1: People are asking for part ten, so we'll see what 15 00:02:08,320 --> 00:02:11,040 Speaker 1: we can do. We're definitely on the second. Today I 16 00:02:11,080 --> 00:02:16,360 Speaker 1: am joined by none other than Healer, best selling author, 17 00:02:16,560 --> 00:02:21,880 Speaker 1: master coach, or organizational strategist. Healer again, I have to say, 18 00:02:21,919 --> 00:02:25,000 Speaker 1: a long time therapist and a licensed clinical social worker 19 00:02:25,040 --> 00:02:29,280 Speaker 1: who specializes in the healing of trauma. He's also the 20 00:02:29,320 --> 00:02:34,079 Speaker 1: founder of the Cultural Somatics Institute, a cultural trauma navigator, 21 00:02:34,200 --> 00:02:35,519 Speaker 1: and a communal. 22 00:02:35,080 --> 00:02:37,000 Speaker 2: Provocateur and coach. 23 00:02:37,520 --> 00:02:40,840 Speaker 1: Last time Resmo was here, we spoke about one of 24 00:02:40,840 --> 00:02:44,920 Speaker 1: his best selling books, My Grandmother's Hands, which radically changed 25 00:02:45,040 --> 00:02:48,359 Speaker 1: the world of healing to this approach that he developed 26 00:02:48,360 --> 00:02:52,239 Speaker 1: over many, many decades. He then led the charge really 27 00:02:52,280 --> 00:02:55,160 Speaker 1: speaking to the divide that we've been experiencing in America 28 00:02:55,240 --> 00:02:58,119 Speaker 1: with the Quaking of America. And now he is back 29 00:02:58,160 --> 00:03:00,880 Speaker 1: with another book to fuel us and feed us in 30 00:03:00,919 --> 00:03:05,240 Speaker 1: this very paradigm shifting moment of human history. Monsters in Love, 31 00:03:05,880 --> 00:03:13,160 Speaker 1: Welcome to the show. Resmaminequan having you know, it's so interesting. 32 00:03:13,280 --> 00:03:16,680 Speaker 1: So you're a healer, I'm a healer. Anytime we share space, 33 00:03:17,360 --> 00:03:21,639 Speaker 1: instant regulation, don't have to do anything. The vibrational energy 34 00:03:21,760 --> 00:03:29,920 Speaker 1: is just you've said it. You're centered, grounded. Monsters in Love, 35 00:03:30,720 --> 00:03:34,480 Speaker 1: this is a big book I had the pleasure of 36 00:03:35,160 --> 00:03:37,800 Speaker 1: at the time of recording. Now last night you and 37 00:03:37,840 --> 00:03:41,520 Speaker 1: I were in community and I was able to do 38 00:03:41,560 --> 00:03:43,240 Speaker 1: a Q and A with you on your new book 39 00:03:43,280 --> 00:03:52,080 Speaker 1: with your community, and it was absolutely mind blowing the 40 00:03:52,160 --> 00:03:55,400 Speaker 1: way that you were diving into what feels like a 41 00:03:55,440 --> 00:03:59,360 Speaker 1: completely new approach for so many people and understanding love, 42 00:04:00,080 --> 00:04:05,760 Speaker 1: understanding their role in love and in relationship, and especially 43 00:04:05,840 --> 00:04:12,160 Speaker 1: in speaking to relationship as a tool of healing and transformation. 44 00:04:12,440 --> 00:04:17,000 Speaker 1: It's intended use the way God designed it. What led 45 00:04:17,040 --> 00:04:19,680 Speaker 1: you to say, now is the time to speak to 46 00:04:19,880 --> 00:04:23,120 Speaker 1: this piece of the healing puzzle. 47 00:04:23,440 --> 00:04:29,520 Speaker 3: So so Muster's in Love is actually kind of like 48 00:04:29,600 --> 00:04:35,000 Speaker 3: a remake, right, so I had So my second book 49 00:04:35,080 --> 00:04:38,960 Speaker 3: was a book called Rock the Boat. Rocked the Boat 50 00:04:40,160 --> 00:04:44,440 Speaker 3: was originally with another publisher. My publisher went out of business. 51 00:04:44,600 --> 00:04:49,400 Speaker 3: I got my rights back, right, and between the time 52 00:04:49,480 --> 00:04:54,560 Speaker 3: I first wrote that book and now, I've evolved, I've grown, 53 00:04:54,760 --> 00:04:57,800 Speaker 3: just in just in terms of as a as a therapist, 54 00:04:57,920 --> 00:05:01,279 Speaker 3: as a healer, as somebody who works with other bodies. 55 00:05:01,720 --> 00:05:04,440 Speaker 3: I'm not the same dude I was when I wrote it, right, 56 00:05:04,920 --> 00:05:07,000 Speaker 3: And so when I got the rights back, I just 57 00:05:07,080 --> 00:05:11,760 Speaker 3: put it to the side. And as I started to 58 00:05:11,800 --> 00:05:15,520 Speaker 3: go back and read it again, there were parts that 59 00:05:15,760 --> 00:05:18,680 Speaker 3: now I'm like, oh, I want to change that. I'm 60 00:05:18,720 --> 00:05:22,400 Speaker 3: not the same person. I'm not the same therapist, I'm 61 00:05:22,440 --> 00:05:29,080 Speaker 3: not the same healer. Eye in terms of what happens 62 00:05:29,160 --> 00:05:33,240 Speaker 3: in relationships is different. It's more mature now. And so 63 00:05:33,880 --> 00:05:38,279 Speaker 3: Monsters in Love was really about how I began to 64 00:05:38,400 --> 00:05:41,080 Speaker 3: integrate some of my own learning, some of my own 65 00:05:41,120 --> 00:05:47,600 Speaker 3: emergence and so I think why it's relevant now is 66 00:05:47,800 --> 00:05:51,039 Speaker 3: I actually think because of all of the things that 67 00:05:51,080 --> 00:05:53,720 Speaker 3: I've done before, it led me up to a place 68 00:05:53,760 --> 00:05:55,880 Speaker 3: to where I said, oh, now I can work with 69 00:05:56,880 --> 00:05:59,520 Speaker 3: the couple's work the same way I work with communal work, 70 00:06:00,040 --> 00:06:01,840 Speaker 3: going to do the couple's work the same way I 71 00:06:01,880 --> 00:06:04,719 Speaker 3: do organizational work. I can do the couple's work now. 72 00:06:05,320 --> 00:06:07,360 Speaker 3: And it took me years to get to that place. 73 00:06:07,800 --> 00:06:10,360 Speaker 3: And so that's why I think Masters in Love is 74 00:06:10,400 --> 00:06:18,440 Speaker 3: so important now is because this idea of understanding historical, intergenerational, 75 00:06:19,000 --> 00:06:24,839 Speaker 3: persistent institutional race, sex, sexuality, like all of those pieces, 76 00:06:25,480 --> 00:06:29,080 Speaker 3: I think we're at a place now where we maybe 77 00:06:29,240 --> 00:06:30,479 Speaker 3: possibly can hold it. 78 00:06:30,760 --> 00:06:35,720 Speaker 2: M You know what's so. 79 00:06:37,160 --> 00:06:40,159 Speaker 1: It's just so divine. I think that the placements of 80 00:06:40,200 --> 00:06:44,000 Speaker 1: your books because I even am recognizing how your work 81 00:06:44,279 --> 00:06:46,320 Speaker 1: is building tolerance. 82 00:06:45,920 --> 00:06:51,800 Speaker 3: Yeah everything, Yeah, yeah, it's it's the attempt is to 83 00:06:51,920 --> 00:06:54,320 Speaker 3: get us practiced, right. 84 00:06:54,400 --> 00:06:54,760 Speaker 2: Yes. 85 00:06:54,839 --> 00:06:58,120 Speaker 3: I use this analogy like if if I called you 86 00:06:58,160 --> 00:07:01,320 Speaker 3: one day and I said, hey, Debbie, I'm thinking about 87 00:07:01,400 --> 00:07:03,880 Speaker 3: running a marathon and you've been my sister, you go, 88 00:07:04,000 --> 00:07:06,720 Speaker 3: oh that's cool, Yeah, that's really cool. You know, anything 89 00:07:06,720 --> 00:07:08,800 Speaker 3: I can do to support you? Da da da dah, 90 00:07:09,600 --> 00:07:13,880 Speaker 3: and we would go back and forth, and then you 91 00:07:13,960 --> 00:07:16,240 Speaker 3: might get the bright idea to ask me a question. Right. 92 00:07:16,320 --> 00:07:18,880 Speaker 3: You might say, hey, when do you think do you 93 00:07:18,880 --> 00:07:20,840 Speaker 3: have an idea in your mind when you're thinking about 94 00:07:20,920 --> 00:07:23,200 Speaker 3: running this marathon? And if I looked at you and 95 00:07:23,240 --> 00:07:29,080 Speaker 3: I said I'm thinking about running it tomorrow, right, You'd go, Okay, 96 00:07:29,080 --> 00:07:32,400 Speaker 3: I got to ask another question now, right. And if 97 00:07:32,440 --> 00:07:35,360 Speaker 3: you say, well, have you been running? 98 00:07:35,960 --> 00:07:36,200 Speaker 1: Right? 99 00:07:36,960 --> 00:07:40,840 Speaker 3: Have you been watching what you eat? Have you run 100 00:07:40,880 --> 00:07:42,800 Speaker 3: a block? First? And if I looked at you in 101 00:07:42,840 --> 00:07:45,760 Speaker 3: all seriousness and I said no, but I read a 102 00:07:45,760 --> 00:07:49,520 Speaker 3: book on it, right, No, but I talked to a 103 00:07:49,640 --> 00:07:54,160 Speaker 3: dude who ran, right, you'd get concerned about me now. 104 00:07:54,520 --> 00:07:57,960 Speaker 3: Right now you would have to reality test with me, 105 00:07:58,120 --> 00:08:01,080 Speaker 3: because what you know is is that I'm about to 106 00:08:01,080 --> 00:08:04,000 Speaker 3: put my body through something that I am unprepared to 107 00:08:04,040 --> 00:08:09,160 Speaker 3: contend with. And relationships are the same thing we put 108 00:08:09,280 --> 00:08:14,080 Speaker 3: We are unprepared to deal with the charge of what 109 00:08:14,120 --> 00:08:18,040 Speaker 3: it means when I say I choose you, right, And 110 00:08:18,280 --> 00:08:20,880 Speaker 3: we all think, just because we choose a person, we're 111 00:08:20,960 --> 00:08:24,720 Speaker 3: ready for the charge. We're ready for the weight, we're 112 00:08:24,720 --> 00:08:28,040 Speaker 3: ready for the speed, we're ready for the texture, and 113 00:08:28,080 --> 00:08:31,160 Speaker 3: we are not, and so Musters in Love is really 114 00:08:31,160 --> 00:08:33,520 Speaker 3: my attempt for us to begin to say, slow it down, 115 00:08:34,480 --> 00:08:38,560 Speaker 3: let's start doing the things that get us conditioned so 116 00:08:38,640 --> 00:08:42,160 Speaker 3: we can hold what is about to come from an 117 00:08:42,240 --> 00:08:46,480 Speaker 3: historical place, from an intergenerational place, from a persistent, persistent 118 00:08:46,520 --> 00:08:50,160 Speaker 3: institutional place, and then our own personal lived experiences. 119 00:08:50,320 --> 00:08:54,880 Speaker 2: Yes, yes, yes, Okay, let's start at the top, because 120 00:08:54,920 --> 00:08:56,440 Speaker 2: there this book. 121 00:08:56,600 --> 00:09:01,520 Speaker 1: It's a phenomenal book. And I really my deepest desire 122 00:09:01,679 --> 00:09:05,120 Speaker 1: for anyone tapping into the show today and resonating with 123 00:09:05,160 --> 00:09:09,000 Speaker 1: our voices and hearing us is to help you create 124 00:09:09,080 --> 00:09:13,680 Speaker 1: a new understanding of the way relationship works in your 125 00:09:13,960 --> 00:09:17,920 Speaker 1: unique life, based on who you are and your experiences, 126 00:09:18,280 --> 00:09:20,960 Speaker 1: so that you can alleviate suffering and find more joy 127 00:09:21,000 --> 00:09:23,520 Speaker 1: in them and use them as the tools they're actually 128 00:09:23,520 --> 00:09:25,720 Speaker 1: designed to be. So I want to start at the 129 00:09:25,760 --> 00:09:31,840 Speaker 1: top with you talk to me about the intended evolution 130 00:09:31,960 --> 00:09:35,120 Speaker 1: of relationship, because this is a piece that we have 131 00:09:35,200 --> 00:09:39,400 Speaker 1: all always gotten wrong, and society has really primed us 132 00:09:39,440 --> 00:09:42,559 Speaker 1: for this right, like even back to the Disney movie day. Absolutely, 133 00:09:42,600 --> 00:09:46,160 Speaker 1: when we're wearing those traditional roles of provider and support 134 00:09:46,360 --> 00:09:49,200 Speaker 1: or however, you know, they've showed up for you and 135 00:09:49,240 --> 00:09:51,559 Speaker 1: your life or and your culture. But there is always 136 00:09:51,559 --> 00:09:55,679 Speaker 1: this blueprint that I would say never actually feels authentic 137 00:09:56,080 --> 00:10:00,520 Speaker 1: to anyone. And it's based on timetables that are so 138 00:10:00,600 --> 00:10:05,400 Speaker 1: simple and don't actually have like a sacred weight. Yeah, 139 00:10:05,480 --> 00:10:09,240 Speaker 1: it's like meet, fall in love, have sex somewhere in 140 00:10:09,240 --> 00:10:12,040 Speaker 1: the midst of all that, and get engaged, get married, 141 00:10:12,040 --> 00:10:16,920 Speaker 1: have a child, retire and then you know, and it's like, yeah, okay, 142 00:10:17,040 --> 00:10:19,600 Speaker 1: and what about the individuals doing those things? 143 00:10:20,320 --> 00:10:22,720 Speaker 2: So if you would share with us, what is really. 144 00:10:22,520 --> 00:10:27,199 Speaker 1: The intended evolution and even purpose for intimate relationship? 145 00:10:27,400 --> 00:10:31,720 Speaker 3: Yeah, So one of the things that happens is that 146 00:10:31,800 --> 00:10:35,520 Speaker 3: we have all been conditioned by our understanding of relationship, 147 00:10:35,880 --> 00:10:40,120 Speaker 3: either through our caregivers, through the messages that we receive 148 00:10:40,200 --> 00:10:45,480 Speaker 3: on TV in movies. What would our friends say to 149 00:10:45,559 --> 00:10:48,440 Speaker 3: us about what the correct way is to do things 150 00:10:48,480 --> 00:10:50,880 Speaker 3: and be things right? And ends up happening? Is is 151 00:10:50,920 --> 00:10:57,000 Speaker 3: that we miss what actually we're so conditioned that if 152 00:10:57,080 --> 00:11:00,000 Speaker 3: I meet somebody and I have butterflies in my stomach, 153 00:11:00,960 --> 00:11:03,320 Speaker 3: and if I meet somebody and I have this like 154 00:11:03,880 --> 00:11:07,320 Speaker 3: magical thing that happens between you know, happens between us, 155 00:11:07,360 --> 00:11:10,000 Speaker 3: and I know this is the person. We have been 156 00:11:10,040 --> 00:11:13,600 Speaker 3: conditioned to believe that that is what should be from 157 00:11:13,679 --> 00:11:17,880 Speaker 3: now on. Yes, yes, right, And like I said last night, 158 00:11:18,480 --> 00:11:21,880 Speaker 3: the only purpose of that is to draw you together. 159 00:11:22,760 --> 00:11:26,560 Speaker 3: The only purpose of that of those particular pieces is 160 00:11:26,640 --> 00:11:29,880 Speaker 3: to present like when you're when you're when you first 161 00:11:29,880 --> 00:11:33,960 Speaker 3: get together, you're the only thing you're really sharing is 162 00:11:34,200 --> 00:11:38,560 Speaker 3: commonalities and things that you both agree to. Right, it's 163 00:11:38,640 --> 00:11:43,120 Speaker 3: serving its purpose. But then there's another purpose that happens, 164 00:11:43,600 --> 00:11:47,319 Speaker 3: and that's beginning to highlight and show the things that 165 00:11:47,360 --> 00:11:51,240 Speaker 3: you don't agree with. And that's when we think something 166 00:11:51,360 --> 00:11:55,280 Speaker 3: is going wrong. That's when we think that our partner 167 00:11:55,720 --> 00:11:59,280 Speaker 3: is not the right person for us. That's when we 168 00:11:59,320 --> 00:12:06,280 Speaker 3: start thinking communication and compatibility issues are coming up. And 169 00:12:06,320 --> 00:12:08,840 Speaker 3: what I'm saying is is if we could begin to 170 00:12:08,920 --> 00:12:12,200 Speaker 3: slow it down and see that there is a purpose, 171 00:12:12,320 --> 00:12:18,240 Speaker 3: a function for expressing your differences and how you move 172 00:12:18,400 --> 00:12:22,360 Speaker 3: in the world differently and understand the world, there is 173 00:12:22,400 --> 00:12:25,400 Speaker 3: a function of it. It is not the problem. There 174 00:12:25,480 --> 00:12:29,160 Speaker 3: is a function of it. And we as particularly here 175 00:12:29,440 --> 00:12:34,320 Speaker 3: in America, we haven't inquired or interrogated what the function 176 00:12:34,600 --> 00:12:37,920 Speaker 3: of that is. The function of it is. It is 177 00:12:38,080 --> 00:12:44,760 Speaker 3: designed to make you begin to work with the energy 178 00:12:44,800 --> 00:12:48,719 Speaker 3: around being connected to somebody that's important to you, that 179 00:12:49,000 --> 00:12:53,080 Speaker 3: matters to you, and maintaining a clear sense of yourself 180 00:12:53,120 --> 00:12:55,920 Speaker 3: while you're doing it, and being able to soothe your 181 00:12:55,960 --> 00:12:58,400 Speaker 3: own hurts and your pains while you're doing it. It 182 00:12:58,440 --> 00:13:01,320 Speaker 3: is not either for them to turn themselves over to 183 00:13:01,480 --> 00:13:05,520 Speaker 3: you or for you to turn yourself over to them, right, 184 00:13:06,040 --> 00:13:09,720 Speaker 3: and that and that, that kind of disney conditioning is 185 00:13:09,880 --> 00:13:14,360 Speaker 3: like turn yourself over. Yeah, they kiss you and you 186 00:13:14,400 --> 00:13:18,680 Speaker 3: wake up from a sleep, and now you're the princess, right, 187 00:13:19,080 --> 00:13:22,000 Speaker 3: or now you're the prince and you say right. And 188 00:13:22,080 --> 00:13:25,840 Speaker 3: we all go into relationships with some rem and it 189 00:13:25,880 --> 00:13:31,319 Speaker 3: doesn't matter if I'm talking about heterosexual relationships, homosexual relationships, 190 00:13:31,679 --> 00:13:36,160 Speaker 3: or any other relationship where there's two people, right, it 191 00:13:36,280 --> 00:13:39,800 Speaker 3: doesn't matter. We all have been conditioned by it, and 192 00:13:39,920 --> 00:13:45,040 Speaker 3: we have not interrogated interrogated, So it always shows up 193 00:13:45,120 --> 00:13:49,000 Speaker 3: as a bottleneck, as a gridla and our only conditioning 194 00:13:49,080 --> 00:13:52,240 Speaker 3: in terms of like psychology and marriage therapy and all 195 00:13:52,280 --> 00:13:55,480 Speaker 3: that different type of stuff revolves around well, let's just 196 00:13:55,600 --> 00:13:59,400 Speaker 3: get find out the problem, alleviate the problem, and fix 197 00:13:59,480 --> 00:14:03,280 Speaker 3: the problem. And what's really going on is that there 198 00:14:03,400 --> 00:14:08,080 Speaker 3: is a piece in you that's asking you to grow 199 00:14:08,160 --> 00:14:12,000 Speaker 3: to hell up right, to grow up in ways that 200 00:14:12,760 --> 00:14:15,600 Speaker 3: you have been able because you haven't been with somebody, 201 00:14:15,840 --> 00:14:18,120 Speaker 3: you've been able to get to that line and then 202 00:14:18,200 --> 00:14:21,520 Speaker 3: figure out a way around it. Right. And what that 203 00:14:21,720 --> 00:14:25,640 Speaker 3: sufferings edge does when you choose another person, what the 204 00:14:25,680 --> 00:14:29,680 Speaker 3: sufferings edge does is the suffering. He says, Look, you 205 00:14:29,680 --> 00:14:31,440 Speaker 3: can find a way around it. You can bring another 206 00:14:31,480 --> 00:14:34,200 Speaker 3: person in, you can act like us, all their problem, 207 00:14:34,320 --> 00:14:38,200 Speaker 3: you can do all of that. And this particular time, 208 00:14:38,760 --> 00:14:43,000 Speaker 3: let's not do that. Let's not blow all of this 209 00:14:43,040 --> 00:14:48,120 Speaker 3: through our partner. Let's actually sit with this and not 210 00:14:48,280 --> 00:14:51,560 Speaker 3: take it all on ourselves, but actually work with the 211 00:14:51,720 --> 00:14:55,960 Speaker 3: energy of what is beckoning me. But before I met 212 00:14:56,000 --> 00:15:00,000 Speaker 3: this person, what is the thing, what is the purpose 213 00:15:00,560 --> 00:15:04,560 Speaker 3: that's tied to my integrity? The gnawing that's happening for 214 00:15:04,640 --> 00:15:08,880 Speaker 3: me right now? I always tell people the gnawing is health. 215 00:15:10,400 --> 00:15:13,000 Speaker 3: The gnawing is not health. And what we've been taught 216 00:15:13,280 --> 00:15:15,960 Speaker 3: is to kill the gnawing or get rid of the gnawing, 217 00:15:16,240 --> 00:15:20,480 Speaker 3: and not metabolize the energy that's creating the gnawing. 218 00:15:20,880 --> 00:15:32,440 Speaker 2: Okay, sit there, please, please, please, please please, This gives 219 00:15:32,440 --> 00:15:41,560 Speaker 2: me chills because this is part of the reason I 220 00:15:41,640 --> 00:15:48,000 Speaker 2: believe bodies of culture and those that have experienced complex 221 00:15:48,040 --> 00:15:55,480 Speaker 2: trauma of all backgrounds come on. The fight is to 222 00:15:57,240 --> 00:16:00,560 Speaker 2: come into your body, often for the first time, the 223 00:16:00,560 --> 00:16:00,960 Speaker 2: first time. 224 00:16:01,480 --> 00:16:05,560 Speaker 1: That is the biggest, the hardest, the most important piece 225 00:16:05,560 --> 00:16:08,080 Speaker 1: of the puzzle for healing. You have to be present 226 00:16:08,160 --> 00:16:11,480 Speaker 1: for your life. You have to be present inside this 227 00:16:11,600 --> 00:16:17,200 Speaker 1: vessel that's been designed to hold your soul. So very 228 00:16:17,200 --> 00:16:21,160 Speaker 1: often in some of our communities, there is this charge 229 00:16:21,200 --> 00:16:23,720 Speaker 1: that we don't have language for around all kinds of things. 230 00:16:24,840 --> 00:16:28,000 Speaker 1: When anger comes up, when love comes up, when desire 231 00:16:28,080 --> 00:16:31,480 Speaker 1: comes up. It's a feeling that is so foreign because 232 00:16:31,680 --> 00:16:35,200 Speaker 1: many of us are robbed of the opportunity to feel, 233 00:16:35,280 --> 00:16:38,280 Speaker 1: to know, how to learn how so you are just 234 00:16:38,440 --> 00:16:42,080 Speaker 1: having these experiences inside that you don't know how to 235 00:16:42,080 --> 00:16:44,760 Speaker 1: talk about, You don't know what their intended purpose is, 236 00:16:44,840 --> 00:16:48,160 Speaker 1: and so it's so overwhelming and it makes you completely 237 00:16:48,240 --> 00:16:51,240 Speaker 1: jump out of yourself, very often detached down all the 238 00:16:51,280 --> 00:16:54,760 Speaker 1: things that keep us from ourselves and our end one another. 239 00:16:55,360 --> 00:16:59,840 Speaker 1: That's the baseline, right So as you're speaking to these 240 00:17:00,480 --> 00:17:03,400 Speaker 1: right like even that feeling of desire that can first 241 00:17:03,440 --> 00:17:05,639 Speaker 1: come up and for some it can be the feeling 242 00:17:05,640 --> 00:17:08,200 Speaker 1: of oh my god, this is the one right, and 243 00:17:08,280 --> 00:17:11,800 Speaker 1: b others it's just that lustful feeling, passionate feeling. 244 00:17:11,680 --> 00:17:12,200 Speaker 3: Or terror. 245 00:17:12,720 --> 00:17:18,240 Speaker 1: M Okay, can you talk about this piece and why 246 00:17:18,640 --> 00:17:23,800 Speaker 1: In your first book you really masterfully unpack the understanding 247 00:17:23,880 --> 00:17:28,400 Speaker 1: of needing to build tolerance to receive good things, and 248 00:17:28,480 --> 00:17:31,200 Speaker 1: that exists in our loving relationships too. 249 00:17:31,680 --> 00:17:38,160 Speaker 3: So think about it like this, sibling. Many of us 250 00:17:38,200 --> 00:17:44,640 Speaker 3: come from bodies that were brutalized for hundreds upon hundreds 251 00:17:44,720 --> 00:17:53,199 Speaker 3: upon hundreds of years, like legally brutalized. Right, those nervous 252 00:17:53,240 --> 00:18:00,000 Speaker 3: systems got shaped around the brutalization. Okay, Wow, it is 253 00:18:00,200 --> 00:18:03,600 Speaker 3: relatively new occurrence, right, that me and you could be 254 00:18:03,640 --> 00:18:06,919 Speaker 3: sitting here doing what we're doing and have some sense 255 00:18:06,920 --> 00:18:10,960 Speaker 3: of sovereignty over our own bodies. For most of me 256 00:18:11,040 --> 00:18:16,800 Speaker 3: and your history, the white body had full and unfettered 257 00:18:16,960 --> 00:18:25,360 Speaker 3: access to our bodies. Wow, full and unfettered. I mean 258 00:18:25,600 --> 00:18:36,520 Speaker 3: every idea, every office, there was no protection. So that charge. 259 00:18:37,840 --> 00:18:43,119 Speaker 3: We had to organize our communities around that charge. We 260 00:18:43,160 --> 00:18:47,640 Speaker 3: had to organize our nervous systems around that charge. So 261 00:18:47,840 --> 00:18:52,520 Speaker 3: when we get into a relationship with somebody, that charge 262 00:18:52,640 --> 00:18:56,680 Speaker 3: presents itself, and it can look like terror, It can 263 00:18:56,720 --> 00:19:00,880 Speaker 3: look like horror. It can look like rejection, it can 264 00:19:01,000 --> 00:19:05,639 Speaker 3: look like anxiety, it can look like depression. That's because 265 00:19:05,680 --> 00:19:10,480 Speaker 3: it's been decontextualized, and we internalize it as a personal defect, 266 00:19:10,720 --> 00:19:14,600 Speaker 3: as opposed to as opposed to it being structural and philosophical. 267 00:19:14,760 --> 00:19:18,600 Speaker 3: Oh my god. So when we as black bodies come 268 00:19:18,680 --> 00:19:22,040 Speaker 3: into contact with each other, even if I love you 269 00:19:22,760 --> 00:19:27,080 Speaker 3: the wh the historical charge also floods into the room 270 00:19:27,480 --> 00:19:33,840 Speaker 3: without context and without understanding, and without moorings to navigate it. 271 00:19:34,160 --> 00:19:37,719 Speaker 3: And so part of our work is to slow it 272 00:19:37,880 --> 00:19:46,120 Speaker 3: down enough to allow the energy to condition us. Many times, 273 00:19:46,119 --> 00:19:51,240 Speaker 3: what we do is we gorge on it rather than 274 00:19:51,320 --> 00:19:56,159 Speaker 3: nibble on it. We want it all, but we can't 275 00:19:56,200 --> 00:20:00,119 Speaker 3: tolerate it, so we break apart. So we push away 276 00:20:00,320 --> 00:20:02,960 Speaker 3: at the same time that we're saying, come come closer. 277 00:20:03,200 --> 00:20:07,240 Speaker 3: Yeah right, yeah, that has to be that. That's because 278 00:20:07,280 --> 00:20:11,480 Speaker 3: what happened to us did not happen to us individually. 279 00:20:12,040 --> 00:20:16,320 Speaker 3: It happened to us communally. So only developing a communal 280 00:20:16,400 --> 00:20:20,960 Speaker 3: only developing an individual response to a communal horror is inadequate. 281 00:20:22,119 --> 00:20:25,399 Speaker 3: Part of the reason why many of us can't be 282 00:20:25,640 --> 00:20:28,800 Speaker 3: in relationships or have a very difficult time in relationships. 283 00:20:29,000 --> 00:20:31,800 Speaker 3: Is because we've been seeing this whole process as an 284 00:20:31,840 --> 00:20:36,160 Speaker 3: individual endeavor as opposed to what happened to our peoples 285 00:20:36,440 --> 00:20:40,240 Speaker 3: and how our people's bodies got organized around the brutality 286 00:20:40,520 --> 00:20:44,520 Speaker 3: and the feralness. And so what I try and help 287 00:20:44,560 --> 00:20:51,080 Speaker 3: our people do sys is first, slow it down, orient 288 00:20:51,800 --> 00:20:56,240 Speaker 3: move your bodies, touch your body. Watch. Like one of 289 00:20:57,080 --> 00:21:02,320 Speaker 3: the practices that I have in h in my grandmother's 290 00:21:02,320 --> 00:21:08,639 Speaker 3: hands is just get in front of a mirror. I 291 00:21:08,680 --> 00:21:12,600 Speaker 3: can't tell you how many times people say they skip 292 00:21:12,640 --> 00:21:17,320 Speaker 3: over that practice. Just take your clothes off and stand 293 00:21:17,359 --> 00:21:21,679 Speaker 3: in front of a mirror, and notice how long you 294 00:21:21,720 --> 00:21:24,360 Speaker 3: can stand there. Now, sometimes you could You just look 295 00:21:24,400 --> 00:21:26,800 Speaker 3: and you pack up. There's nothing going wrong, there's too much. 296 00:21:27,040 --> 00:21:30,480 Speaker 3: You notice, there's too much charge, walk away, then come 297 00:21:30,520 --> 00:21:33,560 Speaker 3: back again. This is the conditioning. It'd be the same 298 00:21:33,560 --> 00:21:34,920 Speaker 3: way if I was trying to show you how to 299 00:21:34,960 --> 00:21:37,320 Speaker 3: shoot a jump shot or show you how to throw 300 00:21:37,359 --> 00:21:41,440 Speaker 3: a punch. Right, you can't throw one punch and you're conditioned. 301 00:21:41,520 --> 00:21:45,719 Speaker 3: You don't understand nuance yet, right, And for our people, 302 00:21:45,760 --> 00:21:49,840 Speaker 3: we've been conditioned that if you choose somebody you're already conditioned. 303 00:21:49,920 --> 00:21:53,200 Speaker 3: You're not conditioned. And so when all of this charge 304 00:21:53,240 --> 00:21:56,120 Speaker 3: and waiting texture comes into the room with somebody that 305 00:21:56,200 --> 00:21:59,960 Speaker 3: you love, you don't know what to do with it. 306 00:22:00,160 --> 00:22:02,800 Speaker 3: Even if it's feel even if you have the experience 307 00:22:03,320 --> 00:22:07,000 Speaker 3: that this is a good thing, it's also vulnerable. It's 308 00:22:07,040 --> 00:22:11,560 Speaker 3: a good thing, it's also terrifying. And we haven't interrogated 309 00:22:11,600 --> 00:22:15,560 Speaker 3: that individually in a couple or communality. 310 00:22:20,080 --> 00:22:20,480 Speaker 2: Deeply. 311 00:22:21,200 --> 00:22:29,040 Speaker 1: Wow, can you expand on the terror of vulnerability and 312 00:22:29,119 --> 00:22:34,480 Speaker 1: how that keeps us from love, from our own love, 313 00:22:34,680 --> 00:22:37,639 Speaker 1: and from connection with someone you really want to have 314 00:22:37,840 --> 00:22:38,159 Speaker 1: love with. 315 00:22:38,359 --> 00:22:48,399 Speaker 3: That's right. So, so when you're out here just running 316 00:22:48,440 --> 00:22:51,399 Speaker 3: wild and ripping wild, and you you know, you just 317 00:22:51,800 --> 00:22:58,960 Speaker 3: you know what I mean doing right. When you're out 318 00:22:58,960 --> 00:23:03,000 Speaker 3: here doing that, there's a lot of choices. You got 319 00:23:03,000 --> 00:23:05,280 Speaker 3: a lot of choices, a lot of moves you can make. 320 00:23:05,520 --> 00:23:14,120 Speaker 3: Right the moment you say I choose you, it shifts 321 00:23:15,040 --> 00:23:16,879 Speaker 3: and we all know it. People say it all the 322 00:23:16,920 --> 00:23:21,040 Speaker 3: time before we got married, it was cool. As soon 323 00:23:21,080 --> 00:23:24,200 Speaker 3: as we moved in together, they lost their mind. 324 00:23:24,960 --> 00:23:28,600 Speaker 2: If that ain't the exact phrase that you hear. 325 00:23:29,119 --> 00:23:33,320 Speaker 3: Constantly, constantly, right, And it's because The reason why we 326 00:23:33,359 --> 00:23:37,240 Speaker 3: say that is because we haven't interrogated and slow down 327 00:23:37,359 --> 00:23:40,440 Speaker 3: enough to really unpack what that means. When we say that, 328 00:23:40,520 --> 00:23:44,960 Speaker 3: we make it a particular personal thing, like she lost 329 00:23:45,000 --> 00:23:48,359 Speaker 3: her mind, she lost their mind, they lost their minds. Right, yes, 330 00:23:48,680 --> 00:23:52,800 Speaker 3: but there's actually a function in that. Right the moment, 331 00:23:53,240 --> 00:23:58,160 Speaker 3: when I'm out here wiling and ripping and running and 332 00:23:58,280 --> 00:24:04,399 Speaker 3: by myself, I have infinite choices and moves that I 333 00:24:04,440 --> 00:24:12,200 Speaker 3: can make. There is nobody who is who has more 334 00:24:12,840 --> 00:24:16,760 Speaker 3: say so in control over my life than me. There 335 00:24:16,840 --> 00:24:22,240 Speaker 3: is no influence that I have to negotiate. Right but 336 00:24:22,359 --> 00:24:26,040 Speaker 3: the moment I say, baby, let's move in together, at 337 00:24:26,160 --> 00:24:32,240 Speaker 3: that exact moment, my choices become finite. When my choices 338 00:24:32,280 --> 00:24:35,840 Speaker 3: become finite, I get pushed up against my development in 339 00:24:35,920 --> 00:24:39,840 Speaker 3: that exact moment, because I never had to get pushed 340 00:24:40,119 --> 00:24:43,879 Speaker 3: when I was doing, when I was by myself or 341 00:24:44,160 --> 00:24:49,760 Speaker 3: just dating. The moment I say let's move intogether, my 342 00:24:50,000 --> 00:24:53,120 Speaker 3: choices become finite. More of what I do and don't 343 00:24:53,119 --> 00:24:55,320 Speaker 3: do revolves around what you do and don't want to do. 344 00:24:56,800 --> 00:25:00,919 Speaker 3: My vulner immediately come to my vulnerability at that moment, 345 00:25:03,400 --> 00:25:06,679 Speaker 3: And soon as you come to your vulnerability. At that moment, 346 00:25:07,000 --> 00:25:11,880 Speaker 3: you try and figure out a way to lessen the vulnerability. 347 00:25:12,119 --> 00:25:15,600 Speaker 3: And many times I say this one thing I've said 348 00:25:15,640 --> 00:25:24,040 Speaker 3: a lot many times. People have affairs and relationships not 349 00:25:24,240 --> 00:25:27,919 Speaker 3: because the partner is not important. It is because the 350 00:25:28,000 --> 00:25:32,960 Speaker 3: partner is too important for them to actually show themselves too. Okay, 351 00:25:33,160 --> 00:25:37,000 Speaker 3: it's really easy to go find somebody in the club 352 00:25:38,240 --> 00:25:41,480 Speaker 3: and tell them all of the things I will that 353 00:25:43,400 --> 00:25:46,440 Speaker 3: look like, all of the intimate things and all of 354 00:25:46,480 --> 00:25:48,880 Speaker 3: the secrets and all that stuff. But that person that's 355 00:25:48,920 --> 00:25:53,480 Speaker 3: laying there on the pillow with me, they are too 356 00:25:53,520 --> 00:25:57,159 Speaker 3: important for me to let them see these parts of me. 357 00:25:58,160 --> 00:26:00,879 Speaker 3: So I can. I'll do it with somebody I'll pick 358 00:26:00,960 --> 00:26:02,639 Speaker 3: up in the club or pick up at church, or 359 00:26:02,680 --> 00:26:06,720 Speaker 3: pick up right but this person because it matters to 360 00:26:06,760 --> 00:26:09,720 Speaker 3: me what happens to their eyes when I say, hey, 361 00:26:09,760 --> 00:26:12,960 Speaker 3: I really want to do this thing. If I can't 362 00:26:13,040 --> 00:26:15,399 Speaker 3: maintain a clear sense of myself when I look in 363 00:26:15,440 --> 00:26:20,600 Speaker 3: your eyes, I'll start to shave it and move it 364 00:26:20,640 --> 00:26:25,720 Speaker 3: around and not say it and not express it because 365 00:26:25,840 --> 00:26:29,600 Speaker 3: the look of disgust in your face I can't tolerate. 366 00:26:31,080 --> 00:26:34,280 Speaker 3: And it seems like that's a problem for you. But 367 00:26:34,359 --> 00:26:37,159 Speaker 3: it's actually a problem for me. Am I going to 368 00:26:37,240 --> 00:26:40,760 Speaker 3: grow parts of myself up? Am I going to develop 369 00:26:40,800 --> 00:26:45,520 Speaker 3: the ability to more myself? So even with you, I 370 00:26:45,560 --> 00:26:48,879 Speaker 3: can let you see me behind my eyeballs and hold 371 00:26:48,920 --> 00:26:52,040 Speaker 3: on to myself at the same time. Most people can't 372 00:26:52,080 --> 00:26:55,640 Speaker 3: do that when they say I choose you. I can 373 00:26:55,680 --> 00:26:58,639 Speaker 3: do it with somebody in the club, but not you, 374 00:26:59,080 --> 00:27:03,200 Speaker 3: because it actually matters when I see discussed. It actually 375 00:27:03,280 --> 00:27:07,680 Speaker 3: matters when you say, I ain't doing that's nasty. If 376 00:27:07,680 --> 00:27:10,600 Speaker 3: I can't maintain a clear sense in myself, then I'm 377 00:27:10,600 --> 00:27:13,680 Speaker 3: going to either make you give yourself up in order 378 00:27:13,680 --> 00:27:15,680 Speaker 3: for me to feel better, or I'm going to give 379 00:27:15,760 --> 00:27:22,240 Speaker 3: myself up in order for me to feel better and 380 00:27:22,400 --> 00:27:27,200 Speaker 3: nothing's going wrong when that happens. That's the function it 381 00:27:27,320 --> 00:27:29,840 Speaker 3: forces you up against. Are you going to be clean 382 00:27:29,920 --> 00:27:32,399 Speaker 3: about this? Or are you going to be dirty about this? 383 00:27:32,600 --> 00:27:36,520 Speaker 3: That's it. Adults don't get a choice between pain and 384 00:27:36,560 --> 00:27:40,040 Speaker 3: no pain. The choice. Adults get a choice between am 385 00:27:40,040 --> 00:27:42,040 Speaker 3: I going to do this clean? Am I going to 386 00:27:42,119 --> 00:27:46,600 Speaker 3: do this dirty? The choice the other choice of possibly 387 00:27:46,640 --> 00:27:49,600 Speaker 3: not having as much pain that happens after you make 388 00:27:49,720 --> 00:27:56,680 Speaker 3: this one. M Wow, does that make sense? 389 00:27:56,760 --> 00:27:59,600 Speaker 2: This is c Yeah, it makes deep sense. 390 00:27:59,600 --> 00:28:03,080 Speaker 1: And I think you know anyone listening because that hits 391 00:28:03,119 --> 00:28:05,679 Speaker 1: on a lot for a lot of people. And that piece, 392 00:28:07,800 --> 00:28:09,680 Speaker 1: you know, part of the way we were just speaking 393 00:28:09,760 --> 00:28:12,520 Speaker 1: to it was a little more sexual in nature, But 394 00:28:12,760 --> 00:28:16,479 Speaker 1: that is that vulnerability piece is with everything, with everything, 395 00:28:16,560 --> 00:28:20,720 Speaker 1: with absolutely the function of every kind of relationship, not 396 00:28:20,880 --> 00:28:25,400 Speaker 1: just a coupling or romantic partnership right here. 397 00:28:25,880 --> 00:28:29,680 Speaker 3: So there are particular things in relationships that we say 398 00:28:30,080 --> 00:28:33,120 Speaker 3: we let's just agree to disagree that we actually can't 399 00:28:33,119 --> 00:28:38,480 Speaker 3: agree to disagree about. Oh tell me, right, you can't 400 00:28:38,520 --> 00:28:43,200 Speaker 3: agree to disagree to have half a baby. Like if 401 00:28:43,240 --> 00:28:45,560 Speaker 3: somebody is in a relationship and you're in relationship with 402 00:28:45,600 --> 00:28:47,200 Speaker 3: somebody and you want to have a baby and your 403 00:28:47,200 --> 00:28:51,480 Speaker 3: partner doesn't, there is no agree to disagree with that. Yeah, 404 00:28:51,600 --> 00:28:54,040 Speaker 3: you were going to grind, You are going to fight 405 00:28:54,320 --> 00:28:59,520 Speaker 3: because it is about importance. Is this important to you? 406 00:29:00,040 --> 00:29:00,320 Speaker 1: Read it? 407 00:29:00,400 --> 00:29:05,000 Speaker 3: Disagree is usually a way to get around the most 408 00:29:05,120 --> 00:29:09,600 Speaker 3: ardent issue. That mean that that's about usually people's integrity. 409 00:29:09,880 --> 00:29:13,840 Speaker 3: I am and I want these particular things. You want 410 00:29:13,920 --> 00:29:16,760 Speaker 3: these particular things, and they're juxtaposed to each other. We 411 00:29:16,800 --> 00:29:19,920 Speaker 3: can't agree to disagree about that. Yeah, we're gonna have 412 00:29:19,960 --> 00:29:22,600 Speaker 3: to rub and grind and fight and then see what 413 00:29:22,720 --> 00:29:25,800 Speaker 3: emerges from that. And people don't want to do that. 414 00:29:26,120 --> 00:29:28,920 Speaker 3: They want to come into a therapist and pay the 415 00:29:28,920 --> 00:29:32,520 Speaker 3: therapist all that money for them to figure out a 416 00:29:32,600 --> 00:29:36,880 Speaker 3: figure out the to get a solution for the problem. 417 00:29:36,920 --> 00:29:42,320 Speaker 3: There is no solution. There's only emergence. Grow up, and 418 00:29:42,400 --> 00:29:45,760 Speaker 3: you keep not wanting to grow up. This is a 419 00:29:45,800 --> 00:29:52,160 Speaker 3: conundrum that is not to be fixed. Does that make 420 00:29:52,160 --> 00:29:53,240 Speaker 3: sense deeply? 421 00:29:53,360 --> 00:29:56,960 Speaker 1: What I'm hearing especially is you know part of the 422 00:29:57,000 --> 00:29:59,760 Speaker 1: reason there's no solution and there's nothing to be fixed 423 00:29:59,840 --> 00:30:03,280 Speaker 1: is because there is something that must be created, and 424 00:30:03,320 --> 00:30:07,080 Speaker 1: that creation will either be too deciding that there will 425 00:30:07,120 --> 00:30:10,880 Speaker 1: be a shared interest, a shared desire that they feed 426 00:30:11,360 --> 00:30:15,040 Speaker 1: over time over time, and or we are going into 427 00:30:15,080 --> 00:30:18,920 Speaker 1: separate ways and now it's time to create our individual paths. 428 00:30:19,000 --> 00:30:22,840 Speaker 3: And it becomes clear when you do it cleanly as 429 00:30:22,840 --> 00:30:24,320 Speaker 3: opposed to going around it. 430 00:30:24,840 --> 00:30:27,960 Speaker 2: Can can we speak on the importance of integrity? Can 431 00:30:28,000 --> 00:30:28,400 Speaker 2: you give? 432 00:30:28,560 --> 00:30:30,600 Speaker 1: Because you know, I think something within a lot of 433 00:30:30,600 --> 00:30:35,240 Speaker 1: our communities is we have different definitions than perhaps other people. 434 00:30:35,280 --> 00:30:38,840 Speaker 1: We've learned words, applied uses to words in different ways. Right, 435 00:30:39,440 --> 00:30:42,920 Speaker 1: So if you would share your definition of integrity and 436 00:30:42,960 --> 00:30:45,360 Speaker 1: how that operates in relationship. 437 00:30:45,600 --> 00:30:49,840 Speaker 3: Integrity is that thing that's literally tied to creation and purpose. 438 00:30:50,640 --> 00:30:54,480 Speaker 3: Integrity is that thing that when you're by yourself, that 439 00:30:54,560 --> 00:30:58,200 Speaker 3: gnaws that you, just says, this could be different, and 440 00:30:58,320 --> 00:31:03,280 Speaker 3: you're not yes, in alignment with what could be right. 441 00:31:03,400 --> 00:31:05,920 Speaker 2: Not in alignment with what could. 442 00:31:05,960 --> 00:31:11,440 Speaker 3: Be Integrity is that piece that says, there's something I'm 443 00:31:11,600 --> 00:31:17,240 Speaker 3: tied to, something other than just what I want. I'm 444 00:31:17,360 --> 00:31:21,600 Speaker 3: tied to creation itself. It gnaws that you. It's not 445 00:31:21,720 --> 00:31:26,400 Speaker 3: butterflies on your nose, right, It's not like love and rainbows. 446 00:31:26,760 --> 00:31:30,120 Speaker 3: It is the thing that says, are you going to 447 00:31:30,400 --> 00:31:35,000 Speaker 3: live into the person you want to be and also 448 00:31:35,120 --> 00:31:38,440 Speaker 3: be connected to other human beings that are important to you. 449 00:31:39,000 --> 00:31:43,360 Speaker 3: Now that might not You may get the answer coming 450 00:31:43,360 --> 00:31:45,600 Speaker 3: from the other side, as the other side where the 451 00:31:45,600 --> 00:31:51,880 Speaker 3: person says, I don't want to do this with you anymore. Right, 452 00:31:52,560 --> 00:31:58,040 Speaker 3: But though that decision can come from integrity or fear. 453 00:31:59,240 --> 00:32:02,800 Speaker 3: And many times we haven't been conditioned in hone to 454 00:32:02,960 --> 00:32:06,560 Speaker 3: know what the integrity piece, how that sense it's in 455 00:32:06,640 --> 00:32:10,440 Speaker 3: our body, how we notice it. Yeah, we know the 456 00:32:10,480 --> 00:32:13,600 Speaker 3: fear piece. We know what that terror is like. And 457 00:32:13,640 --> 00:32:15,440 Speaker 3: what I'm trying to get people to understand is that 458 00:32:15,480 --> 00:32:19,520 Speaker 3: there's a resource here. There's another resource that will allow 459 00:32:19,680 --> 00:32:24,280 Speaker 3: us to work with it differently, but it has to 460 00:32:24,320 --> 00:32:25,560 Speaker 3: be cultivated. 461 00:32:26,800 --> 00:32:30,880 Speaker 1: It has to be cultivated the way that I experience integrity. 462 00:32:31,480 --> 00:32:34,360 Speaker 1: It's my north star. So integrity for me is like 463 00:32:34,440 --> 00:32:35,680 Speaker 1: that internal GPS. 464 00:32:35,800 --> 00:32:36,400 Speaker 3: That's exactly. 465 00:32:36,920 --> 00:32:39,960 Speaker 1: I have a deep commitment to my integrity. So it's like, 466 00:32:40,080 --> 00:32:43,280 Speaker 1: even if it's something I really want, that feeling comes in, 467 00:32:43,760 --> 00:32:47,200 Speaker 1: it doesn't matter, have to follow the internal guidance. 468 00:32:47,840 --> 00:32:49,520 Speaker 3: And a lot of people and this is why I 469 00:32:49,520 --> 00:32:52,160 Speaker 3: talk about conditioning and tempering, like the running of the marathon, 470 00:32:52,480 --> 00:32:55,000 Speaker 3: A lot of people think that this is something that 471 00:32:55,080 --> 00:32:58,600 Speaker 3: does not have to be cultivated. Yeah, we think we 472 00:32:58,640 --> 00:33:01,920 Speaker 3: should have it right, and there is a piece that's 473 00:33:01,960 --> 00:33:04,280 Speaker 3: tied to creation that we have, but a lot of 474 00:33:04,360 --> 00:33:09,560 Speaker 3: us haven't cultivated our embodied sense of it. Yes right, yes, 475 00:33:09,720 --> 00:33:13,840 Speaker 3: so so so would look like we look sometimes what 476 00:33:13,920 --> 00:33:21,200 Speaker 3: looks like integ what looks like integrity is really intractability. Right, 477 00:33:21,640 --> 00:33:27,120 Speaker 3: Is that I'm that fast? Right? People mistake those types 478 00:33:27,160 --> 00:33:32,040 Speaker 3: of things sometimes as integrity when it's really another way 479 00:33:32,120 --> 00:33:36,160 Speaker 3: around things sometimes, and that's this is the this is 480 00:33:36,200 --> 00:33:40,440 Speaker 3: the interrogation pieces, right, and so a lot of my 481 00:33:40,520 --> 00:33:43,200 Speaker 3: work is really about slowing down to be to give 482 00:33:43,240 --> 00:33:45,440 Speaker 3: yourself enough time to interrogate things. 483 00:33:45,560 --> 00:33:54,080 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I want to speak about practices. 484 00:33:54,280 --> 00:33:56,520 Speaker 1: One of the things that we talked about last night 485 00:33:57,320 --> 00:34:00,760 Speaker 1: as we were kind of diving into your booking and 486 00:34:00,920 --> 00:34:05,880 Speaker 1: the Q and A was around not when you're when 487 00:34:05,920 --> 00:34:09,640 Speaker 1: you're in a space like this as a couple, perhaps 488 00:34:09,719 --> 00:34:12,600 Speaker 1: right when you are a monster in love, it's not 489 00:34:12,800 --> 00:34:17,680 Speaker 1: about creating more shared experiences as a couple, right, Can 490 00:34:17,719 --> 00:34:19,360 Speaker 1: you please talk about this piece? 491 00:34:19,520 --> 00:34:25,759 Speaker 3: Yea, so so so I think about it like, you know, 492 00:34:27,200 --> 00:34:32,120 Speaker 3: when when we get into a relationship with somebody and 493 00:34:32,440 --> 00:34:35,400 Speaker 3: the quote unquote too shall become one right type of 494 00:34:35,400 --> 00:34:43,680 Speaker 3: thing and we're living our lives right, and you know 495 00:34:43,719 --> 00:34:45,080 Speaker 3: this is this is one of the problems that I 496 00:34:45,120 --> 00:34:48,359 Speaker 3: have when people say my better half, right, as if 497 00:34:48,400 --> 00:34:52,640 Speaker 3: it's as if it's as if you were half and 498 00:34:52,680 --> 00:34:55,640 Speaker 3: the other person made you whole the moment that you have, 499 00:34:56,000 --> 00:34:59,200 Speaker 3: the moment you start working with that concept. If somebody's 500 00:34:59,239 --> 00:35:03,960 Speaker 3: happy you, they get so in everything, right, It is 501 00:35:04,000 --> 00:35:06,560 Speaker 3: a it is it is it is, it is, it is. 502 00:35:07,120 --> 00:35:13,360 Speaker 3: It is a we purposely put ourselves in vulnerable positions, right, 503 00:35:14,840 --> 00:35:17,360 Speaker 3: because we be conditioned to do so. This idea of 504 00:35:18,640 --> 00:35:22,200 Speaker 3: half and this idea of the two shell become one, 505 00:35:22,800 --> 00:35:27,560 Speaker 3: puts us in a position to where our partners are are. 506 00:35:27,920 --> 00:35:30,800 Speaker 3: It's what I call reflected sense of self, right, reflected 507 00:35:30,880 --> 00:35:32,880 Speaker 3: sense of self, And this is from one of my mentors, 508 00:35:32,880 --> 00:35:37,600 Speaker 3: doctor Davis Narsha. Reflected sense of self is that when 509 00:35:37,640 --> 00:35:41,120 Speaker 3: I look at you, my sense of who I am 510 00:35:41,760 --> 00:35:45,080 Speaker 3: is reflected in your eyes back to me. So if 511 00:35:45,120 --> 00:35:50,319 Speaker 3: you love me, I'm lovable. If you're disappointed at me, 512 00:35:50,440 --> 00:35:55,760 Speaker 3: I'm disappointing. Right, And a lot of us have those 513 00:35:55,800 --> 00:35:58,200 Speaker 3: types of relationship with people, and so we don't have 514 00:35:58,320 --> 00:36:04,400 Speaker 3: any sense of our own sense of self. There is 515 00:36:04,440 --> 00:36:08,280 Speaker 3: my sense is of other, a other sense of self 516 00:36:08,360 --> 00:36:13,759 Speaker 3: as opposed to my own sense of self myself. Right, 517 00:36:13,800 --> 00:36:17,040 Speaker 3: it's both right. It matters to me what you think 518 00:36:17,040 --> 00:36:19,759 Speaker 3: about me, but it matters to me what I think 519 00:36:19,760 --> 00:36:24,520 Speaker 3: about me. Right, not letting go of you in order 520 00:36:24,560 --> 00:36:27,000 Speaker 3: to be with me, I can hold both. That's the 521 00:36:27,040 --> 00:36:30,000 Speaker 3: conditioning pieces, right, and so for me a lot of 522 00:36:30,080 --> 00:36:34,440 Speaker 3: times what happens in relationships is these concepts around being 523 00:36:34,680 --> 00:36:40,040 Speaker 3: in or your better half, your partner, being your better 524 00:36:40,080 --> 00:36:45,600 Speaker 3: half pushes us into gridlocks. Right. That could be emergent, 525 00:36:45,640 --> 00:36:48,080 Speaker 3: could help us grow up, but a lot of times 526 00:36:48,160 --> 00:36:51,560 Speaker 3: just keep us at each other's throat, right, because you 527 00:36:51,680 --> 00:36:55,560 Speaker 3: matter too much? Right, And when I say that, I'm 528 00:36:55,560 --> 00:36:59,279 Speaker 3: not saying I'm trying to that you shouldn't matter to me. 529 00:37:00,120 --> 00:37:04,880 Speaker 3: Saying many times you're mattering supersedes MyD mattering. 530 00:37:08,440 --> 00:37:08,880 Speaker 2: Deeply. 531 00:37:09,560 --> 00:37:17,000 Speaker 1: Well, Resma and I are talking really large concepts like 532 00:37:17,080 --> 00:37:19,400 Speaker 1: these are actually the things that we're kind of maybe 533 00:37:19,400 --> 00:37:22,920 Speaker 1: even sound casual about that we are expressing right now 534 00:37:23,560 --> 00:37:31,279 Speaker 1: are the fundamental pieces, the foundational pieces of how we 535 00:37:31,360 --> 00:37:35,160 Speaker 1: know love or don't, how we love or hate ourselves 536 00:37:35,200 --> 00:37:37,719 Speaker 1: throughout our lives, what we're able to have access to. 537 00:37:38,360 --> 00:37:40,840 Speaker 1: So something I really want to center for everyone listening 538 00:37:41,040 --> 00:37:45,600 Speaker 1: is the gravity of this, right, like this piece that 539 00:37:45,640 --> 00:37:52,120 Speaker 1: you just expressed, talking about the inner workings, talking about 540 00:37:52,200 --> 00:37:56,000 Speaker 1: the mechanisms that take place in people of how for instance, 541 00:37:57,840 --> 00:38:00,839 Speaker 1: a lot of language that is in important that we're 542 00:38:00,880 --> 00:38:05,640 Speaker 1: discussing but is sometimes misunderstood or really labeled, is the 543 00:38:05,719 --> 00:38:12,440 Speaker 1: dynamic of like a narcissistic relationship or codependent relationship. And granted, 544 00:38:12,640 --> 00:38:17,640 Speaker 1: if you find yourself with a narcissist, please run run fast. 545 00:38:18,520 --> 00:38:23,680 Speaker 1: And a lot of what Resma just described is what 546 00:38:24,000 --> 00:38:28,000 Speaker 1: is going on inside of that body of the narcissist 547 00:38:28,080 --> 00:38:31,600 Speaker 1: and inside of the body of what is often referred 548 00:38:31,600 --> 00:38:35,040 Speaker 1: to as the empathic person or a codependent person. And 549 00:38:35,120 --> 00:38:42,480 Speaker 1: so it's about really juggling and againstness of self and 550 00:38:42,560 --> 00:38:45,640 Speaker 1: trying to find an outlet forward while also not revealing 551 00:38:45,719 --> 00:38:49,760 Speaker 1: too much about oneself and being committed to not being seen. 552 00:38:50,320 --> 00:38:53,200 Speaker 1: And when you're committed to not being seen, we cause 553 00:38:53,360 --> 00:38:58,399 Speaker 1: a wreckonable harm to one another into our family systems, right, 554 00:38:58,440 --> 00:39:00,960 Speaker 1: and so generation because. 555 00:39:00,800 --> 00:39:03,160 Speaker 2: It's it's such a wide view. 556 00:39:04,040 --> 00:39:06,160 Speaker 1: This is how it happens, and so in the day 557 00:39:06,239 --> 00:39:08,440 Speaker 1: to day programming, it may not seem like that big 558 00:39:08,480 --> 00:39:10,399 Speaker 1: of a difference, right, It may just be like, oh man, 559 00:39:10,400 --> 00:39:14,000 Speaker 1: we don't never get along. Oh yeah, yeah, we're arguous. Okay, 560 00:39:14,040 --> 00:39:16,239 Speaker 1: if the kids here, Dad, you're in the thick of it. 561 00:39:16,239 --> 00:39:19,200 Speaker 1: It seems natural, it seems normal, and it seems on 562 00:39:19,400 --> 00:39:22,360 Speaker 1: par with what you're seeing in the rest of society 563 00:39:22,520 --> 00:39:26,480 Speaker 1: on television, your friends, your family. But those mechanisms that 564 00:39:26,680 --> 00:39:31,040 Speaker 1: seem like the smaller pieces, those are the seeds that 565 00:39:31,160 --> 00:39:35,399 Speaker 1: create generational harm. Generational trauma and keep us from being 566 00:39:35,440 --> 00:39:36,399 Speaker 1: able to love each other. 567 00:39:36,440 --> 00:39:39,680 Speaker 3: Absolutely so. So I want to be clear here just 568 00:39:39,680 --> 00:39:41,640 Speaker 3: as a therapist, that that there are a lot of 569 00:39:41,760 --> 00:39:44,840 Speaker 3: terms that we use that people don't know what the 570 00:39:44,880 --> 00:39:48,160 Speaker 3: hell are talking about. Like a lot of people are using, oh, 571 00:39:48,239 --> 00:39:50,480 Speaker 3: they're a narcissist, they are this, they are that, they're 572 00:39:50,960 --> 00:39:56,080 Speaker 3: and and really that's a diagnosedes like you know what 573 00:39:56,120 --> 00:40:01,319 Speaker 3: I mean, yeah, and and and the idea like like 574 00:40:02,360 --> 00:40:06,280 Speaker 3: I so this this piece around narcissism and being a narcissism, 575 00:40:07,800 --> 00:40:12,200 Speaker 3: the underlying piece like narcissism, you know, borderline, all of 576 00:40:12,239 --> 00:40:14,000 Speaker 3: these different things. You know what the root of all 577 00:40:14,000 --> 00:40:15,760 Speaker 3: of those is trauma. 578 00:40:15,880 --> 00:40:16,280 Speaker 2: Trauma. 579 00:40:18,120 --> 00:40:21,920 Speaker 3: We don't want to talk about that. Somebody who developed 580 00:40:21,920 --> 00:40:27,880 Speaker 3: who has a narcissist person's personality. That's that is really 581 00:40:27,920 --> 00:40:32,200 Speaker 3: if you, if you peel back the edges, most people 582 00:40:32,280 --> 00:40:38,080 Speaker 3: who have a narcissistic personality have demonstrative trauma. Yeah right. 583 00:40:38,719 --> 00:40:41,920 Speaker 3: I'm not even talking about the historical stuff yet. Yeah, 584 00:40:42,320 --> 00:40:46,319 Speaker 3: I'm not even talking about the inner generational stuff. Yeah right. 585 00:40:46,880 --> 00:40:51,480 Speaker 3: I'm not even talking about the persistent institutional stuff yet. Personally, 586 00:40:51,880 --> 00:40:59,839 Speaker 3: many times these people have horrible trauma, Yeah right, immits 587 00:41:00,440 --> 00:41:05,759 Speaker 3: and brutality, right, and so I just really try and 588 00:41:05,920 --> 00:41:10,160 Speaker 3: you know, you know, sometimes you know, when you're when 589 00:41:10,160 --> 00:41:14,799 Speaker 3: you're dealing with somebody that is harming you, sometimes the 590 00:41:14,840 --> 00:41:17,279 Speaker 3: best thing that you can do for you and them 591 00:41:17,400 --> 00:41:19,200 Speaker 3: is not allow them to harm you anything. 592 00:41:19,280 --> 00:41:23,759 Speaker 1: Yes, that's the choice. That's that's the choice. And so 593 00:41:24,040 --> 00:41:26,520 Speaker 1: fixing it's a removing. 594 00:41:26,360 --> 00:41:30,880 Speaker 3: And so so so for me, rather than try and like, Okay, 595 00:41:31,520 --> 00:41:33,879 Speaker 3: you know this person is narcissistic, this person is this, 596 00:41:33,880 --> 00:41:37,440 Speaker 3: this person is you know, borderline and bipolar and all 597 00:41:37,440 --> 00:41:40,680 Speaker 3: that different type of stuff. I think I think, I 598 00:41:40,719 --> 00:41:44,800 Speaker 3: think we would be better served, especially in relationships, especially 599 00:41:44,840 --> 00:41:48,239 Speaker 3: in our communities and communities of culture. I believe that 600 00:41:48,360 --> 00:41:53,319 Speaker 3: we would be better served by really understanding that sometimes 601 00:41:53,360 --> 00:41:56,439 Speaker 3: you get into a relationship with somebody who you need 602 00:41:56,480 --> 00:42:02,279 Speaker 3: to not be in a relationship with, and and and 603 00:42:02,360 --> 00:42:07,480 Speaker 3: that and that usually the things that show up in 604 00:42:07,520 --> 00:42:12,080 Speaker 3: the relationship are teaching you and telling you to make moves, 605 00:42:14,320 --> 00:42:16,359 Speaker 3: and a lot of times you don't make the move. 606 00:42:16,840 --> 00:42:20,400 Speaker 3: That goes back to the integrity pieces, right, is you 607 00:42:20,400 --> 00:42:24,439 Speaker 3: know there there. I've worked with clients sometimes and they'll 608 00:42:24,440 --> 00:42:27,600 Speaker 3: come in and they'll say things like I keep picking 609 00:42:27,600 --> 00:42:32,480 Speaker 3: the wrong person. Help me pick better people. And the 610 00:42:32,520 --> 00:42:37,719 Speaker 3: thing I always say is the common denominator in this 611 00:42:37,760 --> 00:42:44,279 Speaker 3: whole piece is you. What aren't you inquiring into? Right? 612 00:42:44,360 --> 00:42:47,480 Speaker 3: I'm not saying that for you to try and find 613 00:42:47,560 --> 00:42:54,719 Speaker 3: what the defect is. I'm saying there's a particular patterning 614 00:42:54,920 --> 00:42:57,160 Speaker 3: that keeps showing up in terms of the people that 615 00:42:57,200 --> 00:43:02,640 Speaker 3: you're bringing into your life. If you refuse to inquire 616 00:43:02,719 --> 00:43:05,399 Speaker 3: into that, and you keep saying it's them them them 617 00:43:05,520 --> 00:43:09,319 Speaker 3: them them them them, you're going to be doing this 618 00:43:09,400 --> 00:43:12,840 Speaker 3: for the next forty years. Remember what I said yesterday 619 00:43:12,920 --> 00:43:15,879 Speaker 3: about many times one of the reasons why people can't 620 00:43:15,920 --> 00:43:18,839 Speaker 3: unhook from things is because they're coming at it from 621 00:43:18,880 --> 00:43:25,000 Speaker 3: their virtue. Yeah, that virtue piece like I'm a good dude, 622 00:43:25,520 --> 00:43:28,919 Speaker 3: I'm a good person, high, I'm high value. Yah. 623 00:43:29,000 --> 00:43:31,360 Speaker 2: Yeah, that's the new one that want to say. 624 00:43:31,120 --> 00:43:36,040 Speaker 3: Everybody, I'm high value. I'm right. The problem is that 625 00:43:36,160 --> 00:43:40,279 Speaker 3: virtues always have limitations, and the limitations usually show up 626 00:43:40,320 --> 00:43:44,040 Speaker 3: when you choose another person. Limitations don't usually show up 627 00:43:44,040 --> 00:43:44,920 Speaker 3: when you're by yourself. 628 00:43:45,520 --> 00:43:51,000 Speaker 2: Why do limitations show up right when you're with the person. 629 00:43:50,800 --> 00:43:55,320 Speaker 3: Because your choices become finite the moment that you choose 630 00:43:55,360 --> 00:43:59,880 Speaker 3: another person, you become vulnerable, and if you have it 631 00:44:00,480 --> 00:44:04,960 Speaker 3: being able to ma tabolize the energy of vulnerability, you 632 00:44:05,080 --> 00:44:10,359 Speaker 3: begin to make the moves to try and lessen the vulnerability, 633 00:44:10,600 --> 00:44:14,839 Speaker 3: right and so and so I'm a high value. It's 634 00:44:14,960 --> 00:44:20,000 Speaker 3: cool when I'm by myself, yeah, in theory, but when 635 00:44:20,480 --> 00:44:27,640 Speaker 3: when I'm dating another guy and that value and then 636 00:44:27,680 --> 00:44:30,080 Speaker 3: I'm getting reflected sense of self and I'm I'm high 637 00:44:30,160 --> 00:44:33,080 Speaker 3: value and the person's looking at me is like, you're 638 00:44:33,120 --> 00:44:38,200 Speaker 3: a mean person. Yeah, you're mean. I'm high value though 639 00:44:38,520 --> 00:44:42,480 Speaker 3: your mean as hell, Like like I try and come 640 00:44:42,520 --> 00:44:45,319 Speaker 3: and touch you, and you like, you're like you push 641 00:44:45,400 --> 00:44:50,520 Speaker 3: me away, But I'm high value. You're mean. That's the 642 00:44:50,719 --> 00:44:54,280 Speaker 3: that's because because you're coming at it from a virtue. 643 00:44:54,440 --> 00:44:57,120 Speaker 3: And that's not to say you should not have virtue, 644 00:44:57,360 --> 00:45:00,560 Speaker 3: but realize that your virtue always has a limitation attached 645 00:45:00,560 --> 00:45:03,080 Speaker 3: to it, and no matter which way you turn your head, 646 00:45:04,040 --> 00:45:06,440 Speaker 3: you're going you're never going to be able to see it. 647 00:45:06,719 --> 00:45:09,239 Speaker 3: What actually has to happen is that people in your 648 00:45:09,280 --> 00:45:13,200 Speaker 3: life help you take that virtue and help that limitation 649 00:45:13,320 --> 00:45:17,160 Speaker 3: go offline. So you have to contend with it. Right, 650 00:45:17,320 --> 00:45:20,280 Speaker 3: But what normally happens for people, is that the moment 651 00:45:20,280 --> 00:45:22,759 Speaker 3: that it goes offline, they say, you're making me feel 652 00:45:22,800 --> 00:45:26,280 Speaker 3: bad about myself, You're not a good person, you're not supportive, 653 00:45:26,520 --> 00:45:29,200 Speaker 3: you don't love me, right, and then they slowly get 654 00:45:29,239 --> 00:45:30,719 Speaker 3: it right back in the linement and then they can't 655 00:45:30,719 --> 00:45:31,280 Speaker 3: see it again. 656 00:45:31,600 --> 00:45:31,960 Speaker 2: Yeah. 657 00:45:32,080 --> 00:45:34,000 Speaker 1: Yeah, And what I'm hearing and what you're saying, and 658 00:45:34,040 --> 00:45:36,920 Speaker 1: this is what so many people do, and not as 659 00:45:36,960 --> 00:45:41,680 Speaker 1: a judgment, but I share you know, it's creating this 660 00:45:44,920 --> 00:45:47,920 Speaker 1: monument as your identity exactly right, like coming up with 661 00:45:48,080 --> 00:45:48,760 Speaker 1: out side. 662 00:45:49,080 --> 00:45:50,279 Speaker 2: And that's part of the danger of. 663 00:45:50,200 --> 00:45:52,799 Speaker 1: What this kind of last ten years, part of our 664 00:45:52,840 --> 00:45:56,080 Speaker 1: cultural narrative around making an elevator pitch for everything, right, 665 00:45:56,160 --> 00:45:58,239 Speaker 1: like having to come up with on your Instagram the 666 00:45:58,320 --> 00:46:02,200 Speaker 1: quick bio that listen sustain you know sufficiently describes who 667 00:46:02,239 --> 00:46:05,040 Speaker 1: you are and so people can get it. I do this, 668 00:46:05,920 --> 00:46:12,200 Speaker 1: and it's like you're creating this container of limitation. Sure that, really, 669 00:46:12,320 --> 00:46:16,720 Speaker 1: especially in relationship, can tricks any ability to have vulnerability. 670 00:46:17,080 --> 00:46:19,360 Speaker 1: I want to ask you one more question about vulnerability. 671 00:46:21,040 --> 00:46:25,520 Speaker 1: So we talked about the mechanic of the mechanism of 672 00:46:26,800 --> 00:46:31,000 Speaker 1: why you want to withdraw vulnerability in relationship when that 673 00:46:31,280 --> 00:46:36,920 Speaker 1: is catalyzed in someone. What does that look like someone 674 00:46:37,040 --> 00:46:41,480 Speaker 1: looking to withdraw vulnerability from the relationship, from the friendship, 675 00:46:41,520 --> 00:46:43,720 Speaker 1: from whatever the partnership. 676 00:46:43,080 --> 00:46:53,160 Speaker 3: Ishave you ever been with somebody and things are going 677 00:46:53,239 --> 00:46:57,959 Speaker 3: well and then something happens and you don't know what 678 00:46:58,000 --> 00:47:01,480 Speaker 3: the hell it is, but you have sense that sweetness 679 00:47:01,480 --> 00:47:06,480 Speaker 3: has been removed. You don't know what you know what 680 00:47:06,480 --> 00:47:12,120 Speaker 3: I mean? Yeah, that's the piece, it's not. That's when 681 00:47:12,160 --> 00:47:16,160 Speaker 3: you're watching people struggle with their vulnerability. The first thing 682 00:47:16,200 --> 00:47:21,959 Speaker 3: to go is not is not nice things or saying 683 00:47:22,120 --> 00:47:24,759 Speaker 3: nice things. The first thing to go that we don't 684 00:47:24,880 --> 00:47:27,640 Speaker 3: that we haven't been conditioned to pick up on vibratorially, 685 00:47:28,080 --> 00:47:33,920 Speaker 3: is sweetness. Think about what I'm saying. We all know it, 686 00:47:34,040 --> 00:47:36,319 Speaker 3: We all know that piece. The first thing to go 687 00:47:36,600 --> 00:47:42,040 Speaker 3: is the sweetness. Yeah, yeah, they're not the look, not 688 00:47:42,239 --> 00:47:45,359 Speaker 3: the love, not the right, the sweetness. 689 00:47:46,120 --> 00:47:52,320 Speaker 1: There is a layer of that sweet authenticity that gets removed, 690 00:47:52,360 --> 00:47:55,160 Speaker 1: and it's not something that you can fully call out. 691 00:47:55,239 --> 00:47:57,800 Speaker 1: And so the person means, who are not to gaslight 692 00:47:57,840 --> 00:47:58,480 Speaker 1: you about it. 693 00:47:58,719 --> 00:48:02,560 Speaker 3: Because they don't know it. They have not because we 694 00:48:02,719 --> 00:48:08,239 Speaker 3: haven't been conditioned with understanding the vibration of that all 695 00:48:08,280 --> 00:48:12,759 Speaker 3: we know is that something was there that's that's now 696 00:48:12,880 --> 00:48:15,520 Speaker 3: missing and I don't even know what was there. 697 00:48:15,800 --> 00:48:18,640 Speaker 2: Yes, Yes, it's hard to develop the language for. 698 00:48:19,080 --> 00:48:21,600 Speaker 3: And that's why I say the communal pieces right that 699 00:48:21,680 --> 00:48:24,640 Speaker 3: we keep trying to figure this stuff out individually and 700 00:48:24,680 --> 00:48:28,480 Speaker 3: it's really a communal cultivation that we're trying to do. 701 00:48:32,160 --> 00:48:36,240 Speaker 1: This is so good, my brother Resma, as we close 702 00:48:36,360 --> 00:48:40,040 Speaker 1: out this, I know that's why. 703 00:48:40,280 --> 00:48:43,520 Speaker 2: That's why everybody wants to have that apart podcast. 704 00:48:45,040 --> 00:48:48,200 Speaker 1: We can figure it out if you would share with 705 00:48:48,280 --> 00:48:51,799 Speaker 1: the audience a piece of soul work, a practice of 706 00:48:51,920 --> 00:48:59,000 Speaker 1: digesting this conversation and making it a little more exploratory 707 00:48:59,280 --> 00:49:01,480 Speaker 1: in their lives until we need again next week. 708 00:49:01,560 --> 00:49:08,920 Speaker 3: Absolutely. So one of the first things I want to 709 00:49:08,960 --> 00:49:14,960 Speaker 3: tell people is that this culture and this philosophy inherently 710 00:49:17,000 --> 00:49:23,200 Speaker 3: disorients us. There's a constant disorientation, and so one of 711 00:49:23,239 --> 00:49:26,880 Speaker 3: the things I talk about is that. And it's particularly 712 00:49:26,880 --> 00:49:29,040 Speaker 3: for black bodies. I'm talking to black bodies right now. 713 00:49:29,960 --> 00:49:33,239 Speaker 3: We have this sense that we walk around and we 714 00:49:33,280 --> 00:49:35,520 Speaker 3: don't share it with each other. It's we think it's 715 00:49:35,520 --> 00:49:39,759 Speaker 3: an individual piece, but it's actually communal. We have the 716 00:49:39,920 --> 00:49:45,040 Speaker 3: sense that that there's something getting ready to happen. The 717 00:49:45,080 --> 00:49:49,440 Speaker 3: next shoot is about the drop that something is happening, 718 00:49:49,560 --> 00:49:52,120 Speaker 3: is going to happen, right, and I'm gonna have to 719 00:49:52,200 --> 00:49:56,040 Speaker 3: deal with it. Right. That is a prevailing kind of 720 00:49:56,440 --> 00:49:59,560 Speaker 3: embodied sense that we have. And so on. When I'm 721 00:49:59,600 --> 00:50:01,960 Speaker 3: working with bodies of culture in my office, one of 722 00:50:02,040 --> 00:50:04,520 Speaker 3: the first kind of things that I work with them 723 00:50:04,560 --> 00:50:10,279 Speaker 3: on is orienting. Right. So like that couple that I'm 724 00:50:10,320 --> 00:50:12,759 Speaker 3: talking to you about, one of the first things that 725 00:50:12,800 --> 00:50:15,440 Speaker 3: I've done with them is and this is just to 726 00:50:15,640 --> 00:50:19,080 Speaker 3: set the kind of foundation piece is for them to 727 00:50:19,200 --> 00:50:24,960 Speaker 3: start orienting. And what does that mean. That means that 728 00:50:25,080 --> 00:50:28,279 Speaker 3: when you go into someplace or someplace that's familiar or 729 00:50:28,320 --> 00:50:32,880 Speaker 3: someplace that's unfamiliar, it doesn't matter. Literally stop for a 730 00:50:32,960 --> 00:50:40,319 Speaker 3: moment and look around the room, particularly behind you. Right. 731 00:50:40,480 --> 00:50:44,080 Speaker 3: Why is that important? Because there we have been conditioned 732 00:50:44,760 --> 00:50:49,040 Speaker 3: that something is going to happen to us and we 733 00:50:49,360 --> 00:50:55,160 Speaker 3: better not focus on that, just move forward, right. But 734 00:50:55,280 --> 00:50:59,359 Speaker 3: yet that energetic kind of sense is still there, So 735 00:51:00,440 --> 00:51:05,600 Speaker 3: looking behind you can be over time, you can condition 736 00:51:05,760 --> 00:51:08,880 Speaker 3: your body to begin to go, oh, there's nothing behind it. 737 00:51:10,320 --> 00:51:13,359 Speaker 3: I tell black people to do this all the time, right, 738 00:51:13,920 --> 00:51:18,960 Speaker 3: start orienting, right, let your body, because your body is 739 00:51:18,960 --> 00:51:21,759 Speaker 3: going to be like watch it, something's happening, watch it. 740 00:51:21,840 --> 00:51:24,680 Speaker 3: Oh you know, I don't call microaggressions. I just call 741 00:51:24,719 --> 00:51:28,280 Speaker 3: them aggressions. That's an aggression, right, it's coming, be mindful 742 00:51:28,280 --> 00:51:32,360 Speaker 3: of right. And so what I say is look behind you, 743 00:51:32,400 --> 00:51:37,080 Speaker 3: look up, look down, notice colors, notice things, and just 744 00:51:37,920 --> 00:51:43,480 Speaker 3: find the windows, the doors and the exits. Why because 745 00:51:43,640 --> 00:51:47,760 Speaker 3: many we come from nervous systems. Who if we stay, 746 00:51:48,120 --> 00:51:53,720 Speaker 3: we died. If we left, we died. It's the double bind. 747 00:51:54,120 --> 00:52:00,040 Speaker 3: So let your body actually see in this moment and 748 00:52:00,280 --> 00:52:03,080 Speaker 3: this time I can leave. Yes. 749 00:52:03,560 --> 00:52:09,640 Speaker 1: Yeah, And I'd love to suggest for everyone as well, 750 00:52:11,600 --> 00:52:16,520 Speaker 1: some of that beautiful mirror work. Really notice how you 751 00:52:16,560 --> 00:52:19,680 Speaker 1: feel when you see your reflection or how you try 752 00:52:19,719 --> 00:52:24,239 Speaker 1: and avoid it exactly. Yeah, there's there's real learning any 753 00:52:24,400 --> 00:52:26,920 Speaker 1: against That's exactly what come up. You know, if you 754 00:52:27,160 --> 00:52:32,080 Speaker 1: if you find yourself wanting to reject your own reflection, 755 00:52:32,800 --> 00:52:36,160 Speaker 1: don't judge it. Take the time that you need in 756 00:52:36,239 --> 00:52:41,000 Speaker 1: between rooking at yourself, but begin to get curious about it. 757 00:52:41,320 --> 00:52:44,799 Speaker 1: Where did that feeling come from? And how can we 758 00:52:44,880 --> 00:52:50,120 Speaker 1: soften it? How can we dismantle it? Resma meinikan newest 759 00:52:50,160 --> 00:52:53,520 Speaker 1: book Monsters and Love is in stores now, and of 760 00:52:53,560 --> 00:52:56,120 Speaker 1: course you can still pick up My Grandmother's Hands, The 761 00:52:56,200 --> 00:52:57,920 Speaker 1: Quaking of America, my brother. 762 00:52:58,080 --> 00:52:59,480 Speaker 2: Thank you for joining. 763 00:52:59,120 --> 00:53:02,880 Speaker 3: Us, Love you, love you, thanks, thanks. 764 00:53:02,760 --> 00:53:05,400 Speaker 1: Thanks, all right, thank you for joining us for another 765 00:53:05,480 --> 00:53:11,000 Speaker 1: episode of Deeply Well. Take your time really connecting with 766 00:53:11,040 --> 00:53:14,720 Speaker 1: the practice is shared, really connecting with the word shared. 767 00:53:14,800 --> 00:53:16,960 Speaker 1: There are some things that may start to come up, 768 00:53:17,080 --> 00:53:21,759 Speaker 1: and as always, get curious and if it feels overwhelming, 769 00:53:22,120 --> 00:53:25,160 Speaker 1: get connected and get supported in the way that you're 770 00:53:25,160 --> 00:53:28,520 Speaker 1: able to have that show up in your life. Meditate, 771 00:53:28,640 --> 00:53:31,760 Speaker 1: Please connect to your daily practice and we'll be back 772 00:53:31,920 --> 00:53:32,439 Speaker 1: next week. 773 00:53:32,520 --> 00:53:33,040 Speaker 2: Thank you for. 774 00:53:33,040 --> 00:53:38,840 Speaker 1: Joining No mistake. Connect with me on social at Debbie Brown. 775 00:53:39,000 --> 00:53:41,480 Speaker 1: That's Twitter and Instagram, or you can go to my 776 00:53:41,520 --> 00:53:44,759 Speaker 1: website Debbie Brown dot com. And if you're listening to 777 00:53:44,800 --> 00:53:48,920 Speaker 1: the show on Apple Podcasts, don't forget. Please rate, review 778 00:53:49,160 --> 00:53:52,880 Speaker 1: and subscribe and send this episode to a friend. Deeply 779 00:53:52,920 --> 00:53:56,120 Speaker 1: Well is a production of iHeartRadio and The Black Effect Network. 780 00:53:56,360 --> 00:54:01,200 Speaker 1: It's produced by jah Queis Thomas, Samantha Timmins, Me, Debbie Brown. 781 00:54:01,840 --> 00:54:05,879 Speaker 1: The Beautiful Soundbath You Heard That's by Jarrelyn Glass from 782 00:54:05,960 --> 00:54:11,560 Speaker 1: Crystal Cadence. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, 783 00:54:11,800 --> 00:54:15,840 Speaker 1: Apple podcast, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.