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Speaker 1: Hey, everybody, welcome to another episode of I Saw What

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Speaker 1: You Did. My name is Millie to Cheriko Danielle Henderson,

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Speaker 1: and we are here to talk film again with you. Hey, Danielle, Hi, Hi,

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Speaker 1: how's it going.

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Speaker 2: I'm all right. I'm tired today. I was out last night.

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Speaker 2: I've been going out. I've been trying to make a

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Speaker 2: more of an effort to go into the city a

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Speaker 2: couple times a month, just yea with friends, and I

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Speaker 2: love it. I love it, but it's it's tiring, and

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Speaker 2: I was It made me think, though, like I kind

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Speaker 2: of I've decided to use basically, I just want to

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Speaker 2: talk about language because I decided that I'm gonna stop

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Speaker 2: saying I feel old or I am old. I've been

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Speaker 2: so guilty of this. But I think that it doesn't

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Speaker 2: it doesn't fully explain what's actually happening. Like I think

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Speaker 2: it's just kind of a short, very short way to

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Speaker 2: kind of convey that you're feeling tired or feeling whatever.

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Speaker 2: But I think that it's it's damaging to constantly talk

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Speaker 2: about myself in that way because I'm not old. Like

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Speaker 2: that's the thing. Like, I think that the way you

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Speaker 2: talk about yourself is often the way that people will

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Speaker 2: talk about you. And I'm not old, Like I'm forty

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Speaker 2: six and I love being forty six, and like, chronologically

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Speaker 2: I don't, I'm not old. I hang out with a

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Speaker 2: lot of people who are like eighty and ninety and beyond,

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Speaker 2: and like, I know that I'm not an old person. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: and it bothers the fuck out of me when I

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Speaker 2: hear someone who's like twenty one being like, oh, I'm

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Speaker 2: old now, because when I was in high school a

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Speaker 2: few years ago, this was true and now it's not.

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Speaker 2: And I'm like, oh, but it's not because you're old.

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Speaker 2: It's because you're older and because you've evolved and changed.

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Speaker 2: So I think that like, there's just I don't know.

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Speaker 2: I feel like there's a real cultural problem with how

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Speaker 2: we have this economy of language for everything now and

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Speaker 2: this shorthand for everything that doesn't actually convey what people mean.

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Speaker 2: And so I don't want to participate in that. Like

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Speaker 2: I went out last night and I'm tired. I'm not old.

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Speaker 2: I'm just tired because I was out until midnight and

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Speaker 2: I'm usually in bed by eight. Yeah, I'm just not

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Speaker 2: And I'm also not interested in denigrating myself because I

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Speaker 2: don't want other people to do it to me and

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Speaker 2: to think of me that way. Like if I constantly

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Speaker 2: talk about myself as someone who's old and tired, then

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Speaker 2: people will do that to me. But yeah, I don't know,

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Speaker 2: I'm just I'm kind of like, you know, again, limited

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Speaker 2: time online, but in a social way. But every time

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Speaker 2: I'm on any kind of social thing online, I'm just

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Speaker 2: kind of paying attention to how people are talking. And

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Speaker 2: I know that like a lot of the shorthand is

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Speaker 2: just fun and interesting, you know, like the Roman Empire

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Speaker 2: thing or like, you know, there's things about it that.

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Speaker 1: What's that the Roman Empire thing?

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Speaker 2: I guess a few months ago, maybe even last year,

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Speaker 2: at the end of last year, people were asking if

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Speaker 2: someone had asked or positive this question and asked men,

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Speaker 2: how often do you think about the Roman Empire? And

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Speaker 2: it was really surprising because most men were like, I

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Speaker 2: think about it all the time, and You're like what,

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Speaker 2: And so people started saying, wait, yeah, yeah, like I

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Speaker 2: think about it like at least once a week, twice

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Speaker 2: a day, Like it was great, you should really look

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Speaker 2: it up. It's fascinating.

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Speaker 1: That is the weirdest thing to think about that.

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Speaker 2: No it's totally weird. But that's what I think was

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Speaker 2: astonishing about it is that people found it so weird

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Speaker 2: and fascinating because no one would ever have guessed that

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Speaker 2: was the answer. Like all the time, like I don't

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Speaker 2: think about the romance. So now people are saying constantly like, well,

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Speaker 2: this thing is my Roman empire, and I'm like, but

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Speaker 2: it's not. It's just something you think about a lot.

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Speaker 2: Just say that it's okay. But again, like I understand

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Speaker 2: the comedy of that, but I think it leaks over

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Speaker 2: into so many things, and it's just like I just

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Speaker 2: don't want to participate culturally in that shit anymore. And

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Speaker 2: I'm very guilty of it, but you know, for myself,

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Speaker 2: but I just don't want to do it anymore.

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Speaker 1: Well, It's like, remember like a while back when I

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Speaker 1: was talking about like how for a long time, I

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Speaker 1: was like, I don't have a tattoo, Like that was

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Speaker 1: some kind of distinction that made me better than people,

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Speaker 1: are more interesting than people. I feel like that is

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Speaker 1: what we're talking about, is just the idea of like

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Speaker 1: I'm saying, I'm old to make myself distinct and interesting

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Speaker 1: because my peers are doing all this stuff that I'm

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Speaker 1: not doing. And in order for me to like, I

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Speaker 1: don't know, skirt out of the fact that I don't

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Speaker 1: like going to bed late, I'm just gonna say I'm old,

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Speaker 1: right right, you know. And also, you can go to

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Speaker 1: bed early, like in high school. I feel like I

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Speaker 1: went to better early in high school, so what better

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Speaker 1: you know?

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Speaker 2: You should in high school. I was an intomniac at

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Speaker 2: high school and it was not great. You should go

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Speaker 2: to bed. Everyone should go to bed early all the

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Speaker 2: time as much as you can. If you don't, you're

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Speaker 2: not working like a third shift swing shift situation, Go

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Speaker 2: to fucking bed, Go to sleep.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: It's also, you know, as a a depressive person, like

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Speaker 2: it's it impacts me so negatively to constantly sit with

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Speaker 2: bad thoughts about myself or the world, so I try

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Speaker 2: not to do that. And yeah, again, it's not like

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Speaker 2: the worst thing in the in the world that I get.

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Speaker 1: I know.

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Speaker 2: It's there are people who are much more intelligent and

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Speaker 2: eloquent about this than I am. And I'm sure there's

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Speaker 2: entire college courses being taught about this, you know, like

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Speaker 2: the semantics of of current you know, of modern culture.

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Speaker 2: But it bothers me it's just been bothering me so

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Speaker 2: much more, and so I just decided to not participate

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Speaker 2: in it. And I think, and we've we've talked about this,

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Speaker 2: but part of I guess an example of that would

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Speaker 2: be that I feel bad about myself sometimes because of

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Speaker 2: how people talk about me in relationship to this podcast.

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Speaker 2: So I am a person who laughs ninety percent of

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Speaker 2: the time when we're talking because You're so funny and

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Speaker 2: I love you so you too, You're you're no psychus,

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Speaker 2: like we're just is laughing and you crack me up,

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Speaker 2: and so I laugh all the time. And it has

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Speaker 2: gotten to a point where I get so bothered when

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Speaker 2: we get emails that are like, you're a bit And

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Speaker 2: I know we've talked about this before on past episodes

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Speaker 2: a couple of years ago or whatever, but like when

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Speaker 2: people are like, oh, you're my favorite bitchy assholes or whatever,

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Speaker 2: or like you know, things like that, and I'm like,

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Speaker 2: am I a bitchy asshole to you? Is that what

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Speaker 2: I'm conveying to you? Or is that just you projecting

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Speaker 2: onto me? Or is that just how we use language now?

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Speaker 2: Because I don't want to participate in that. I don't

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Speaker 2: want somebody who does not know me to call me

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Speaker 2: a bitch and think that it's cute. It's not cute

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Speaker 2: to me. And it's also it impacts me personally, so

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Speaker 2: you know, to be told I have a cackle instead

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Speaker 2: of just saying I like your laugh, like I always,

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Speaker 2: and I know there are people that don't, but I

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Speaker 2: think that I equate cackling with it has a very

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Speaker 2: pejorative connotation for me, like it's a which thing, it's

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Speaker 2: a negative thing. It's never no one's ever talked talks

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Speaker 2: about cat goals positively.

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Speaker 1: So yeah, I think of it as I don't have

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Speaker 1: a problem with it, but I totally understand why you would.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and I think it's just you know, it's it's

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Speaker 2: that kind of thing, and it's that's a mild example,

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Speaker 2: the cackling thing, but like for me, it's more getting

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Speaker 2: that shorthand of negativity that because I don't know the

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Speaker 2: person writing or the person contacting me or commenting on

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Speaker 2: my Instagram or whatever. Because I don't know them, it

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Speaker 2: doesn't come across as as friendly as I think they

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Speaker 2: think it comes across. Yes, so it impacts me negatively

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Speaker 2: and it makes me withdraw quite a bit. Like I've

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Speaker 2: noticed that I don't want to be perceived the wrong way,

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Speaker 2: and I have such a problem with, you know, wanting

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Speaker 2: and being able to express myself in a way that

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Speaker 2: feels real and true to me. And that's all I have,

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Speaker 2: Like that's literally my life's work. Like I am a

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Speaker 2: writer because I need to express myself and I need

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Speaker 2: a way to work through what's going on in my head.

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Speaker 2: So I am writing or presenting in a way and

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Speaker 2: people are reading it and saying and kind of twisting it.

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Speaker 2: It makes me feel bad about my life and my

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Speaker 2: abilities as a person to communicate. So I think it

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Speaker 2: all goes back to it doesn't have to be that

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Speaker 2: heavy all the time, But I do think it goes

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Speaker 2: back to, kind of in a broader sense, like this

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Speaker 2: more cultural communication thing that's happening now, where it's just

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Speaker 2: very it's this kind of the cultural connotation of you know,

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Speaker 2: this is how I talk to my friends, is how

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Speaker 2: I can talk to everybody, and like I'm not I'm

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Speaker 2: just not okay with it. And so I don't want

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Speaker 2: to do it to myself because I don't want to

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Speaker 2: open the door for people to do it to me. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: And I think that that matters, and I just want

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Speaker 2: I wish more people would be paying attention to that.

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Speaker 2: But I think that it's it's hard. It's hard to

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Speaker 2: express your emotions, and it's hard to say I feel

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Speaker 2: really tired and depressed instead of saying I feel old.

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Speaker 2: Like I get it, Like I totally get it. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: but I think it's important to try.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I have a lot of thoughts about everything you

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Speaker 1: just said.

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Speaker 2: Lay them on me.

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Speaker 1: Well, I'm going to try to build an outline so

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Speaker 1: that we can cover all of it in real time. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Number one, I definitely agree that you need to communicate

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Speaker 1: how you would like to be treated. Right, So you

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Speaker 1: put up the boundaries and you put up the framework

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Speaker 1: for the way you want to be treated for other

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Speaker 1: people in your life.

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Speaker 2: Right.

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Speaker 1: So that's great. If you don't want to be considered this,

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Speaker 1: then you know, don't say about yourself. I totally believe that,

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Speaker 1: and I think that's great. The thing that I think

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Speaker 1: might be an issue, there's kind of like two issues

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Speaker 1: going on. A we're doing a podcast. There's a lot

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Speaker 1: of people who listen that don't know us at all. Right,

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Speaker 1: I think that, again, this is something we've talked about,

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Speaker 1: but also I think just we're in this universe of

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Speaker 1: the parasocial relationships, right, and I'm guilty of it too sometimes,

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Speaker 1: you know what I mean? Like I listen to certain

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Speaker 1: podcasts and have opinions about the people that host the podcast,

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Speaker 1: even though I have no idea who they are. They

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Speaker 1: don't know who I am. There is like a familiarity.

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Speaker 1: I mean, I don't. The thing that I don't do

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Speaker 1: is I don't reach out to people, don't. I don't

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Speaker 1: comment on social media. I don't send emails. That's just

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Speaker 1: because I have never been that feedback person. I don't

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Speaker 1: think I like to like I think that I grew

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Speaker 1: up without the relationship between like creator and appreciator. So

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Speaker 1: I never thought it was an option that I would

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Speaker 1: watch like Saved by the Bell and be like, you

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Speaker 1: know what, I'm gonna email Mark Paul Gossler and tell

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Speaker 1: them what I think of his his acting in this episode.

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Speaker 1: Like I just was like, Oh, that doesn't happen. I

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Speaker 1: don't And I never have, you know, written a famous

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Speaker 1: people before. I've never asked for like headshots. I'm just

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Speaker 1: not that type of person. So that's where this is

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Speaker 1: coming from, is that I don't believe in the kind

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Speaker 1: of that kind of parasocial relationship. But in my mind,

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Speaker 1: if I listen to a podcast enough, when I listen

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Speaker 1: to The Daily Daily, I listened to it daily, and

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Speaker 1: I'm like, I got a pagance. I'm like, yo, you know,

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Speaker 1: like Michael Bibaro versus Sabrina Taffanny Ce and you know,

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Speaker 1: it's like I am like, I know their names and

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Speaker 1: I and I have thought about them outside of just

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Speaker 1: like the sheer act of listening to them in the moment,

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Speaker 1: right right. I think it gets really hard though, when

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Speaker 1: we're doing something that people like and I think we're friendly.

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Speaker 1: I don't don't know who said that we were bitchy assholes.

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Speaker 2: Like we don't talk.

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Speaker 1: We are always super positive about every movie we talk about,

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Speaker 1: like well except for Boon Knock Saints. Except for Boone

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Speaker 1: Knock Saints. But for the most part.

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Speaker 2: This is where we also tell listeners that for the

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Speaker 2: most part, I tend to like between Casey and I

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Speaker 2: as we monitor the email and Millie does more the

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Speaker 2: social with the accounts on Twitter and Blue Sky and

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Speaker 2: all that, so Millie will only get really the gist

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Speaker 2: of an email if we send it to her. We're

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Speaker 2: going to post it on like a bone, like you're

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Speaker 2: not in the inbox every day. Basically it's not like

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Speaker 2: you're not reading them, but like you're not in there

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Speaker 2: every day. And it's a lot. It's not just one person.

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Speaker 2: It's a lot of people who are like, you're my

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Speaker 2: favorite bitches and I'm like, oh my god, are we

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Speaker 2: bitches or I And again I try to go from

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Speaker 2: it from a simple place of this is just a

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Speaker 2: shorthand for most people, they think of this is a

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Speaker 2: positive thing. We call each other bitch, like I totally understand,

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Speaker 2: and we ask people to write to us, and so

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Speaker 2: I can't be angry if they write to us in

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Speaker 2: the way that they talk like that is welcome. So

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Speaker 2: it's my part to really process. It's not something that

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Speaker 2: I'm trying to make people feel bad about or you know,

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Speaker 2: second guess, but it's just in the processing I've realized, Oh,

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Speaker 2: maybe it's I have to talk about myself differently so

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Speaker 2: that people talk about me differently. Sure, right, And.

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Speaker 1: I, like I said, I think that's great, and I

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Speaker 1: think that that yeah, that is sort of you know,

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Speaker 1: like I said, you sometimes you have to communicate the

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Speaker 1: way that you want to be treated to certain people,

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Speaker 1: and I think you should advocate for yourself and what

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Speaker 1: you want, how you want to be seen. Also, I

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Speaker 1: will say that you are a private person. Yeah, you are,

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Speaker 1: like you, even though you're putting out a public product,

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Speaker 1: you're not necessarily a public in that way where it's

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Speaker 1: kind of like exchange back and forth between you and strangers.

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Speaker 1: You've never been like that, right.

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Speaker 2: No, no, And it's not a free for all. Yeah. All.

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Speaker 1: But I'm also like of the mind too. And this

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Speaker 1: is something that I think we you and I have

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Speaker 1: talked personally about, which is that it's really hard, I think.

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Speaker 1: And I'm not calling myself a creator because honestly, like

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Speaker 1: you know, the things that I do are way smaller

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Speaker 1: in scale than someone like you. I mean, you've written

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Speaker 1: a memoir, you're a showrunner. You know, you have a

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Speaker 1: Wikipedia article online.

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Speaker 2: You know what I mean?

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Speaker 1: You are out there, right, And there is a moment

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Speaker 1: where I do understand for myself that being creative publicly

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Speaker 1: is kind of a pay to play scenario. Right, You're like, well, sure,

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Speaker 1: I could be a writer and just write in my

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Speaker 1: journal and never publish it. It, never let any of

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Speaker 1: these thoughts see the light of day. But I am

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Speaker 1: like writing a substack, I am doing DVD commentaries, I

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Speaker 1: am on a podcast, you know, So in my mind

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Speaker 1: I have to kind of understand that there is like

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Speaker 1: a potential for people to not get me, or they

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Speaker 1: only get one portion of it, or they they take

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Speaker 1: they clip off a very basic understanding of what I'm

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Speaker 1: actually trying to say and then they run with it right.

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Speaker 1: And it's hard because the more visible you are, the

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Speaker 1: less potential there is for people to really understand who

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Speaker 1: you are. So I mean, I'm not saying that I

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Speaker 1: will ever be as famous as say like Scarlet Johansson

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Speaker 1: or something, but you know, at her level of the game,

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Speaker 1: like people don't see that she's doing maybe things that

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Speaker 1: are important to her or maybe she's advocating for things

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Speaker 1: to important to her. They just see her as this

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Speaker 1: like really famous actress and they're not really processing who

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Speaker 1: she is ever. So it's it's tough because I I'm trying.

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Speaker 1: I try to keep that in check, I think for myself,

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Speaker 1: because I can get sensitive about it too. I mean,

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Speaker 1: like I said, I used to run the Twitter account

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Speaker 1: for TCM Underground, which I did for almost well, it

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Speaker 1: was like over fifteen years and as you can imagine,

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Speaker 1: like I was a programmer of like cult movies. In

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Speaker 1: the cult movie world has its you know, cool people,

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Speaker 1: but then there's a lot of like really toxic film

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Speaker 1: bro and they would frequently come at me and it

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Speaker 1: was my work, Like it was my work. I had

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Speaker 1: a commercial that was on the network. It ran for

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Speaker 1: many years. There were people who were screen grabbing things

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Speaker 1: from that commercial and like trying to like fuck with

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Speaker 1: me and like you know, and it was like this

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Speaker 1: moment where I was like, am I tough enough for this?

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Speaker 1: Like I want to program and I want I believe

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Speaker 1: in this franchise and I believe in my work at

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Speaker 1: this network, but like being forward facing is rough and

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Speaker 1: I don't really know how to handle it. But it

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Speaker 1: became this like thing where I had to like consciously

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Speaker 1: talk to myself about it and be like, you know,

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Speaker 1: if I want to do this, sometimes there's gonna be

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Speaker 1: the rough with the smooth, and I don't know, it's

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Speaker 1: not perfect and it's some days it's really bad, but

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Speaker 1: you know, I.

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Speaker 2: Feel like you handle it well. And I think there's

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Speaker 2: also there's a feminist argument to be made for definitely,

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Speaker 2: like my unwillingness to be invisible, yep, just because of

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Speaker 2: how people project onto me like that. There's definitely a

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Speaker 2: feminist argument to be made for that, Like for you

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Speaker 2: to not have done TCM Underground for fifteen years would

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Speaker 2: have been a travesty just because a few people were dicks,

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Speaker 2: you know. But there's also something I think that's easier

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Speaker 2: to swat away and ignore and not engage with when

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Speaker 2: it's just abject cruelty and anger like that I can

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Speaker 2: deal with. I'm like, oh, delete, goodbye, not dealing with that.

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Speaker 2: You got your this is your own shit. Yeah, there's

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Speaker 2: something a little bit more delicate about this balance of

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Speaker 2: people who think that they're being nice to you while

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Speaker 2: actually saying cruel things to you. Wow, are like saying

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Speaker 2: things that are like that's a little bit more difficult

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Speaker 2: for me personally to navigate because I know the intention

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Speaker 2: is not bad, but it's still hurts my feelings, So

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Speaker 2: that that is the part of it that's more difficult,

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Speaker 2: Like the abject anger and just like you know, typical

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Speaker 2: internet bullshit. I'm like, yeah, ignore that, get we don't

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Speaker 2: have to engage with that. But yeah, there's something about

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Speaker 2: the the me needing to check myself and steal myself

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Speaker 2: and be a little bit harder than I want to be,

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Speaker 2: because so much of my own personal work and healing

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Speaker 2: has been actually learning how to be softer and more

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Speaker 2: loving and more peaceful. And I don't want to be

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Speaker 2: that hard bitch, Like I don't want to go back

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Speaker 2: to that kind of mindset. Yeah, that's not how I

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Speaker 2: want to be in the world, that's for sure. So

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Speaker 2: there is a little bit of it's all personal. Like

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Speaker 2: I just again, I don't want anyone to feel bad

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Speaker 2: about how they've emailed or talked to us, or talk

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Speaker 2: about us or anything. Like our listeners are very kind

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Speaker 2: and really lovely people like ninety nine point nine nine

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Speaker 2: nine percent of the time, So I don't want This

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Speaker 2: is not me retroactively trying to make anyone feel bad.

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Speaker 2: I'm just saying that, like I'm considering how that stuff

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Speaker 2: is landing on me because it feels like personal work

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Speaker 2: that I have to do. And I also this is

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Speaker 2: there's a shade to it that I don't talk about

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Speaker 2: very often, which again, also there's a feminist argument to

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Speaker 2: be made for which is that I do not want

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Speaker 2: to be perceived as the angry black woman. And I

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Speaker 2: think a lot of people do not know in their

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Speaker 2: personal lives any black people. So if I'm the only

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Speaker 2: black person you know and you're calling me a bitchy queen,

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Speaker 2: that has a negative racial connotation to it that you

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Speaker 2: might not be aware of, but it definitely does. And

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Speaker 2: I think that that is Again, people much more eloquent

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Speaker 2: and intelligent about this, But that is a facet that

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Speaker 2: I am aware of. When I get messages like that,

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Speaker 2: it's like, Oh, do they think I'm an angry black woman?

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Speaker 2: And is there a problem with that? Because sometimes I am.

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Speaker 2: I'm an angry woman for sure, or things get me

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Speaker 2: upset and I don't. Again, I don't want to be

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Speaker 2: invisible and not talk about that shit, but I also

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Speaker 2: don't want that to be the only thing people think

385
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Speaker 2: about me. I don't want to be seen in facets,

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Speaker 2: you know. If I'm presenting whole things, I want to

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Speaker 2: be seen as a whole person. Yeah, And that's also

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Speaker 2: the hardest part of I think the work that I do,

389
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Speaker 2: because I did not become a writer to be seen.

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Speaker 2: I think that that's a generational difference too, Like I'm

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Speaker 2: not trying to be the prettiest or coolest or most

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Speaker 2: well known or like an influence. I'm a goblin, Like

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Speaker 2: I'm not trying to write in a way that is

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Speaker 2: like at all connected to my face or body or

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Speaker 2: the rest of my life. I essentially would love to

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Speaker 2: get to a point where my work speaks for itself.

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Speaker 2: I think that's what I really am pushing towards. And

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Speaker 2: that's kind of the friction that I feel right now

399
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Speaker 2: is that, you know, I've talked to my publisher about this,

400
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Speaker 2: I've talked to publicists about this on the shows that

401
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Speaker 2: I work on, because I'm like, you know, I don't

402
00:21:12,960 --> 00:21:15,520
Speaker 2: want to personally be tied to the products I'm making.

403
00:21:16,119 --> 00:21:19,800
Speaker 2: I think that if I'm doing something that's personal, like

404
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Speaker 2: a memoir, then of course I will talk about it

405
00:21:22,400 --> 00:21:24,520
Speaker 2: and show up. But I want my work to speak

406
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Speaker 2: for itself. And if I'm working in a fictional realm,

407
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Speaker 2: I personally don't want to have to be the voice

408
00:21:28,960 --> 00:21:31,280
Speaker 2: of that realm, Like the work should speak for itself.

409
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Speaker 2: And I don't want to be doing like interviews and

410
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Speaker 2: all this shit. I just don't want to do any

411
00:21:36,240 --> 00:21:37,679
Speaker 2: of that shit because I don't think that I'm the

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Speaker 2: most important part of anything I do. And I have

413
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Speaker 2: a friend who I admire so much, and I really

414
00:21:46,720 --> 00:21:50,520
Speaker 2: have been kind of watching him and talking to him

415
00:21:50,520 --> 00:21:56,560
Speaker 2: about it. So my friend Christopher Storer created the TV

416
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Speaker 2: show The Bear and he has got Director Skilled awards

417
00:22:01,480 --> 00:22:03,680
Speaker 2: and you know, all this past award season has been

418
00:22:03,720 --> 00:22:07,360
Speaker 2: great for them, and I know, like when I see

419
00:22:07,440 --> 00:22:10,600
Speaker 2: him holding his little awards a like like the DJA

420
00:22:10,840 --> 00:22:12,679
Speaker 2: or whatever, and I email him and I'm like, I

421
00:22:12,720 --> 00:22:14,760
Speaker 2: know you're uncomfortable with all of this, but like I'm

422
00:22:14,840 --> 00:22:17,920
Speaker 2: very proud of you, and he objectly does not. You

423
00:22:17,960 --> 00:22:19,960
Speaker 2: would not even know his name is connected to that

424
00:22:20,280 --> 00:22:23,680
Speaker 2: show and he created it and it's very personal to him,

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Speaker 2: and I love that. I love that his work speaks

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00:22:28,119 --> 00:22:30,520
Speaker 2: for itself and it's all about the actors and it's

427
00:22:30,560 --> 00:22:33,439
Speaker 2: all about the you know, how people engage with it,

428
00:22:33,520 --> 00:22:36,040
Speaker 2: and it has absolutely nothing to do with him. He

429
00:22:36,080 --> 00:22:38,679
Speaker 2: can carry on in his life and keep making what

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Speaker 2: he wants to make and have fun with his friends

431
00:22:40,920 --> 00:22:42,760
Speaker 2: and go out and do everything he wants to do

432
00:22:42,800 --> 00:22:46,399
Speaker 2: as a person and not have to feel comments about

433
00:22:46,440 --> 00:22:48,919
Speaker 2: the show directly. And that is where I would like

434
00:22:48,960 --> 00:22:51,240
Speaker 2: to get in my life, in my work life, Like

435
00:22:51,280 --> 00:22:53,080
Speaker 2: I think I need to get to a place where

436
00:22:53,800 --> 00:22:56,040
Speaker 2: I am disconnected from it enough that you can like

437
00:22:56,119 --> 00:22:58,080
Speaker 2: just enjoy it on its own or not enjoy it

438
00:22:58,119 --> 00:22:58,960
Speaker 2: on its own. Right.

439
00:22:59,000 --> 00:23:03,119
Speaker 1: Well, but yes, and I totally hear you, because I

440
00:23:03,119 --> 00:23:07,720
Speaker 1: think that that's like one of the shittiest things about

441
00:23:07,760 --> 00:23:10,920
Speaker 1: this like era of capitalism that we're in right now

442
00:23:11,040 --> 00:23:14,960
Speaker 1: is this whole like brand thing where like every business

443
00:23:15,240 --> 00:23:17,639
Speaker 1: that you work for wants you to like be a

444
00:23:17,760 --> 00:23:20,480
Speaker 1: brand within the you know what I mean. Like, I

445
00:23:20,520 --> 00:23:23,080
Speaker 1: mean they even did that when I was working for

446
00:23:23,560 --> 00:23:25,960
Speaker 1: a corporation. They wanted you to have like a forward

447
00:23:25,960 --> 00:23:30,719
Speaker 1: facing Twitter account and like claim your role, and you know,

448
00:23:30,800 --> 00:23:34,000
Speaker 1: everybody wants you just have to be like the public

449
00:23:34,040 --> 00:23:38,240
Speaker 1: face of everything that you do now, right, And yeah,

450
00:23:38,320 --> 00:23:41,440
Speaker 1: that is awful for somebody who doesn't want that, who

451
00:23:41,640 --> 00:23:43,560
Speaker 1: like is basically like I just want to make work

452
00:23:43,600 --> 00:23:45,560
Speaker 1: and put it in the world, and I don't want

453
00:23:45,560 --> 00:23:49,200
Speaker 1: to like have to like run a TikTok account where

454
00:23:49,200 --> 00:23:50,880
Speaker 1: I have to like talk about it all the time

455
00:23:50,960 --> 00:23:53,760
Speaker 1: and talk about myself. And you know, I mean, I'm

456
00:23:53,800 --> 00:23:55,159
Speaker 1: going to say too, I'm going to say to the

457
00:23:55,200 --> 00:23:58,080
Speaker 1: point that you just made about Christopher, like he's also

458
00:23:58,160 --> 00:24:01,800
Speaker 1: a man, unfortunately, and he might get that luxury of

459
00:24:01,880 --> 00:24:05,440
Speaker 1: not being forward facing. But then you know, unfortunately for you,

460
00:24:05,760 --> 00:24:10,080
Speaker 1: I think that you know, people are gonna want you

461
00:24:10,160 --> 00:24:13,119
Speaker 1: to be in front of what you're doing because they're like,

462
00:24:13,160 --> 00:24:15,639
Speaker 1: she is a black woman, you know she need visibility

463
00:24:15,720 --> 00:24:18,400
Speaker 1: and this and that. You know, like, exactly, it's good

464
00:24:18,440 --> 00:24:20,919
Speaker 1: for us, you know, it's good for the company.

465
00:24:21,920 --> 00:24:23,600
Speaker 2: No, You're absolutely right, Like I just I don't know

466
00:24:23,600 --> 00:24:26,200
Speaker 2: if you listened to I listened to the this podcast

467
00:24:26,200 --> 00:24:31,040
Speaker 2: that I love called Talk Easy, and it's Sam Fragoso,

468
00:24:31,320 --> 00:24:33,760
Speaker 2: and I think he's He's a better interviewer to me

469
00:24:33,840 --> 00:24:36,440
Speaker 2: than anyone, like more than Fresh Air, Like I enjoy

470
00:24:36,480 --> 00:24:40,600
Speaker 2: that podcast more than any other intervieweestyle podcast I listened to.

471
00:24:41,320 --> 00:24:44,159
Speaker 2: And I would recommend that people go and listen to

472
00:24:45,880 --> 00:24:49,040
Speaker 2: the episode that he did with Ava DuVernay because she

473
00:24:49,119 --> 00:24:51,520
Speaker 2: talks about this like how her last movie was funded

474
00:24:51,560 --> 00:24:53,480
Speaker 2: and everything. But what she talks about that hit me

475
00:24:53,560 --> 00:24:57,680
Speaker 2: the hardest was how how hard she has worked within

476
00:24:57,800 --> 00:25:00,359
Speaker 2: the system of Hollywood you try to change things, and

477
00:25:00,400 --> 00:25:02,359
Speaker 2: how it has not worked and it has burnt her

478
00:25:02,400 --> 00:25:04,840
Speaker 2: out and she is done and she is like, I

479
00:25:04,880 --> 00:25:07,600
Speaker 2: am no longer willing to be the voice of all

480
00:25:07,640 --> 00:25:11,600
Speaker 2: black women. Directors like She doesn't say that expressly, but

481
00:25:11,640 --> 00:25:14,879
Speaker 2: she kind of intimates how hard it has been for

482
00:25:15,000 --> 00:25:17,240
Speaker 2: her to try to work within a system that is

483
00:25:17,280 --> 00:25:20,560
Speaker 2: completely resistant to the idea of change, right, and to

484
00:25:20,680 --> 00:25:23,040
Speaker 2: get work made in that but also to be an

485
00:25:23,160 --> 00:25:26,000
Speaker 2: artist in that field in that way. So it's a

486
00:25:26,040 --> 00:25:29,240
Speaker 2: fascinating interview. Highly recommend listening to it, and it was

487
00:25:29,240 --> 00:25:31,280
Speaker 2: really inspiring. And I think that I'm just kind of

488
00:25:31,280 --> 00:25:33,280
Speaker 2: looking to people like that now, like you know, the

489
00:25:33,359 --> 00:25:36,479
Speaker 2: Christopher's and the Avas and people in the world who

490
00:25:36,560 --> 00:25:40,680
Speaker 2: are artists that I admire, who are taking what seems

491
00:25:40,720 --> 00:25:43,280
Speaker 2: like a bold step to say I'm not engaging in

492
00:25:43,359 --> 00:25:46,320
Speaker 2: this in a way that it will harm me personally

493
00:25:46,480 --> 00:25:49,200
Speaker 2: where I will not be able to create because I'm

494
00:25:49,240 --> 00:25:51,359
Speaker 2: doing so much of this other work, like the emotional

495
00:25:51,400 --> 00:25:54,720
Speaker 2: work or the actual work. Like I can't tell you

496
00:25:54,720 --> 00:25:59,760
Speaker 2: how many people, especially my lovely publisher and editor, who

497
00:26:00,760 --> 00:26:04,280
Speaker 2: I was like, I'm I'm not joining TikTok period. I

498
00:26:04,280 --> 00:26:06,960
Speaker 2: will not do TikTok interviews, i will not take part

499
00:26:07,000 --> 00:26:10,840
Speaker 2: in book talk like I just will. I'm not on

500
00:26:10,920 --> 00:26:13,960
Speaker 2: good Reads. I don't want to do any of that.

501
00:26:14,640 --> 00:26:18,200
Speaker 2: And the reason is that I think it's a very unstable.

502
00:26:18,280 --> 00:26:23,360
Speaker 2: It's a deeply unstable and mostly critical in a way

503
00:26:23,359 --> 00:26:31,000
Speaker 2: that's purely criticism, negative criticism of creators, and I don't

504
00:26:31,080 --> 00:26:33,919
Speaker 2: need to know. Again, I'm rare in this way. I

505
00:26:33,960 --> 00:26:36,680
Speaker 2: know I'm not like most creators now, but I don't

506
00:26:36,720 --> 00:26:39,800
Speaker 2: need to know how you've engaged with my work. That

507
00:26:39,840 --> 00:26:42,359
Speaker 2: you have engaged with it at all is lovely for

508
00:26:42,440 --> 00:26:45,440
Speaker 2: me if you love it and you tell me. Great

509
00:26:45,720 --> 00:26:48,600
Speaker 2: if you hate it and you tell me why, like I,

510
00:26:48,640 --> 00:26:50,159
Speaker 2: and also why if you love it like I. Just

511
00:26:50,240 --> 00:26:53,440
Speaker 2: I don't understand this urge to tell everyone everything all

512
00:26:53,440 --> 00:26:58,400
Speaker 2: the time, like I don't understand it, and so I don't.

513
00:26:58,520 --> 00:27:02,520
Speaker 2: You don't tag an author in a post about their

514
00:27:02,520 --> 00:27:04,480
Speaker 2: work if you hate it, like it's just on its

515
00:27:04,520 --> 00:27:09,119
Speaker 2: face mean, I guess I'm not trying to censor people

516
00:27:09,400 --> 00:27:12,240
Speaker 2: at all. I just think that it's important in my

517
00:27:12,359 --> 00:27:14,480
Speaker 2: life to consider how I'm engaging with the people who

518
00:27:14,480 --> 00:27:16,800
Speaker 2: create the work that I like, and the way that

519
00:27:17,119 --> 00:27:19,479
Speaker 2: the most deference I feel like I can give is

520
00:27:20,000 --> 00:27:22,320
Speaker 2: to enjoy it and leave them alone and let them

521
00:27:22,400 --> 00:27:25,479
Speaker 2: keep creating things that I like. Yeah, so that is right.

522
00:27:25,600 --> 00:27:27,280
Speaker 2: I know that I'm rare in that way, but I'm

523
00:27:27,320 --> 00:27:30,119
Speaker 2: like I loved it. I'm never talking about this to

524
00:27:30,200 --> 00:27:32,320
Speaker 2: you personally. I will talk about it with everyone else

525
00:27:32,400 --> 00:27:34,520
Speaker 2: I know and love, Like you should watch this, you

526
00:27:34,520 --> 00:27:36,880
Speaker 2: should read this. This is great. Yeah, But I don't

527
00:27:36,920 --> 00:27:41,360
Speaker 2: want to engage in negativity for optics. And I think

528
00:27:41,400 --> 00:27:44,720
Speaker 2: that's a lot of what I see happening in the

529
00:27:44,720 --> 00:27:46,879
Speaker 2: book talks and in the good reads and in this,

530
00:27:47,040 --> 00:27:50,320
Speaker 2: Like it's just engaging for optics because we've decided culturally

531
00:27:51,400 --> 00:27:53,920
Speaker 2: that the people who are the most negative will get

532
00:27:54,000 --> 00:27:57,720
Speaker 2: the most views. Yeah, and I saw that coming with

533
00:27:58,040 --> 00:28:00,560
Speaker 2: third wave feminism. A lot of third ways, Like popular

534
00:28:00,640 --> 00:28:04,600
Speaker 2: third wave feminists I think were did a lot of

535
00:28:04,640 --> 00:28:06,560
Speaker 2: important work, but a lot of the work was based

536
00:28:06,640 --> 00:28:10,399
Speaker 2: on negative shit, like kind of ripping down like they

537
00:28:10,600 --> 00:28:12,680
Speaker 2: you know, it was kind of the loudest voice about

538
00:28:12,680 --> 00:28:15,240
Speaker 2: the most negative thing was the person who was the

539
00:28:15,320 --> 00:28:18,560
Speaker 2: kind of star in feminism that month or quarter or whatever.

540
00:28:19,359 --> 00:28:22,960
Speaker 2: And I do think it's important to point out how

541
00:28:23,800 --> 00:28:27,040
Speaker 2: we don't work as a society. I don't want people

542
00:28:27,040 --> 00:28:29,000
Speaker 2: to stop doing that. I don't want people to stop

543
00:28:29,040 --> 00:28:33,520
Speaker 2: engaging critically with things, but the negative portion of that

544
00:28:33,560 --> 00:28:36,600
Speaker 2: can't be the most important thing. Yeah, Like I want

545
00:28:36,600 --> 00:28:40,880
Speaker 2: to see a fuller picture personally, and so when I

546
00:28:40,920 --> 00:28:44,200
Speaker 2: see things trending or I see things like getting a

547
00:28:44,200 --> 00:28:47,000
Speaker 2: lot of attention, and it's like all negative, and I think, well,

548
00:28:47,000 --> 00:28:49,520
Speaker 2: where's the debate, Like, where's the room for debate, where's

549
00:28:49,520 --> 00:28:53,000
Speaker 2: the room for me to think critically about this if

550
00:28:53,040 --> 00:28:56,640
Speaker 2: all you're presenting is like just this purely negative projection

551
00:28:56,720 --> 00:28:59,200
Speaker 2: of something. So I don't this is very convoluted, But

552
00:28:59,240 --> 00:29:02,440
Speaker 2: I basically don't want to censor anybody. I don't want

553
00:29:02,480 --> 00:29:05,320
Speaker 2: to make anybody feel bad. I am personally thinking about

554
00:29:05,360 --> 00:29:09,520
Speaker 2: how I engage with things, and I refuse to continue

555
00:29:10,840 --> 00:29:14,520
Speaker 2: engaging with things in a negative way because it impacts

556
00:29:14,600 --> 00:29:17,040
Speaker 2: me personally in a negative way. Yeah, so that's all

557
00:29:17,040 --> 00:29:19,360
Speaker 2: I'm saying. That's a nice, encabsolute way to say the

558
00:29:19,440 --> 00:29:21,120
Speaker 2: last twenty five minutes of what I've been saying.

559
00:29:21,200 --> 00:29:25,239
Speaker 1: No, no, no, I mean, I'm just I'm glad to

560
00:29:25,240 --> 00:29:27,920
Speaker 1: be having this conversation with you personally, just as your

561
00:29:27,960 --> 00:29:32,880
Speaker 1: friend and I I know that this is a topic

562
00:29:32,920 --> 00:29:35,080
Speaker 1: that's come up between just the two of us having

563
00:29:35,080 --> 00:29:39,000
Speaker 1: a conversation about podcasting and our friendship and the future

564
00:29:39,040 --> 00:29:42,800
Speaker 1: and everything like that. And yeah, I think it's it's

565
00:29:42,960 --> 00:29:45,960
Speaker 1: just It's a lot to think about because I think

566
00:29:46,000 --> 00:29:48,080
Speaker 1: that there's, like, you know, you've said a lot of

567
00:29:48,080 --> 00:29:50,520
Speaker 1: different things obviously in this last like half hour that

568
00:29:50,520 --> 00:29:53,520
Speaker 1: we've been talking, and I and I'm really thoughtfully processing

569
00:29:53,560 --> 00:29:56,120
Speaker 1: all of it, and I'm totally I totally understand like

570
00:29:56,120 --> 00:29:57,960
Speaker 1: where you're coming from, even though it may not be

571
00:29:58,080 --> 00:30:02,560
Speaker 1: like my specific opinion about things, like I personally think

572
00:30:02,600 --> 00:30:07,040
Speaker 1: you're wonderful and I want you to succeed and want

573
00:30:07,240 --> 00:30:09,840
Speaker 1: you to have the most success in the entire universe.

574
00:30:10,240 --> 00:30:12,840
Speaker 1: But I understand that there comes this like dark side

575
00:30:12,880 --> 00:30:15,560
Speaker 1: to it too that you're just like not super comfortable with.

576
00:30:15,600 --> 00:30:17,960
Speaker 1: And I totally respect that, and I totally understand that.

577
00:30:18,040 --> 00:30:21,680
Speaker 1: It's just it's sad ultimately that we're now in this

578
00:30:21,800 --> 00:30:25,600
Speaker 1: like hyper feedback culture where you can't just kind of

579
00:30:25,640 --> 00:30:30,680
Speaker 1: like do your work without there being this like Yelp

580
00:30:30,760 --> 00:30:35,640
Speaker 1: review coming every five minutes about your shit, you know, right,

581
00:30:36,240 --> 00:30:38,240
Speaker 1: And like I said, I think that for I don't

582
00:30:38,280 --> 00:30:40,880
Speaker 1: want to make it about age, but the simple fact

583
00:30:41,120 --> 00:30:45,960
Speaker 1: is that I personally did not grow up in that culture.

584
00:30:46,480 --> 00:30:49,600
Speaker 1: I never thought that. I thought feedback was like maybe

585
00:30:49,640 --> 00:30:52,120
Speaker 1: a comment card that you put in a fucking slotted

586
00:30:52,160 --> 00:30:54,880
Speaker 1: box at the front of the restaurant, and even that

587
00:30:55,000 --> 00:30:58,959
Speaker 1: I did not exercise that option ever exactly, And that

588
00:30:59,120 --> 00:31:01,800
Speaker 1: is like some play that bullshit. Now we're like in

589
00:31:01,840 --> 00:31:06,120
Speaker 1: this absolute hyper you know, like you can say anything

590
00:31:06,160 --> 00:31:09,160
Speaker 1: you want, make people feel bad whenever you want, right,

591
00:31:09,440 --> 00:31:12,640
Speaker 1: you know, and it's rough and it's you know, we

592
00:31:12,640 --> 00:31:14,840
Speaker 1: we both have our own struggles with it for our

593
00:31:14,920 --> 00:31:20,040
Speaker 1: own careers. And like, I don't think that we're what

594
00:31:20,040 --> 00:31:23,400
Speaker 1: what was the term that you said, bitchy queens. I

595
00:31:23,400 --> 00:31:26,800
Speaker 1: don't think I'm a bitchitchy asshole really, Like I'm not.

596
00:31:26,880 --> 00:31:30,000
Speaker 1: I don't see myself that way me either, But also

597
00:31:30,520 --> 00:31:36,320
Speaker 1: to somebody who never interacts with people like us, right,

598
00:31:36,480 --> 00:31:38,240
Speaker 1: maybe we're bitchy queens.

599
00:31:38,080 --> 00:31:42,600
Speaker 2: I don't know. Ah. And that's that again, is like

600
00:31:42,640 --> 00:31:46,240
Speaker 2: I can't remove the importance of race and gender from

601
00:31:46,280 --> 00:31:48,320
Speaker 2: that because there are a lot of people who do

602
00:31:48,360 --> 00:31:51,520
Speaker 2: not meet women like us who just say what's on

603
00:31:51,560 --> 00:31:54,800
Speaker 2: their fucking mind and are able to engage critically with

604
00:31:54,880 --> 00:31:58,800
Speaker 2: their lives, and a lot of people I don't always

605
00:31:58,840 --> 00:32:01,160
Speaker 2: want to relegate everything to gender, but there are some

606
00:32:01,240 --> 00:32:02,560
Speaker 2: things where it's really pointed.

607
00:32:02,920 --> 00:32:07,680
Speaker 1: I totally hear you. I respect everything that you've said,

608
00:32:07,760 --> 00:32:10,000
Speaker 1: and I'm so glad that we're having a conversation about

609
00:32:10,040 --> 00:32:12,880
Speaker 1: it because it's very it's very interesting to me to

610
00:32:12,680 --> 00:32:14,640
Speaker 1: me to hear what you have to say and to

611
00:32:14,720 --> 00:32:19,120
Speaker 1: hear your you know, just the way that you're feeling

612
00:32:19,560 --> 00:32:20,280
Speaker 1: right now, and you do.

613
00:32:20,360 --> 00:32:22,920
Speaker 2: You do always give me that support and space, both

614
00:32:23,040 --> 00:32:26,560
Speaker 2: you know, on and off the podcast in our friendship.

615
00:32:26,600 --> 00:32:27,200
Speaker 2: You always do that.

616
00:32:27,360 --> 00:32:30,200
Speaker 1: Yeah, I hope, So thanks for saying that.

617
00:32:30,320 --> 00:32:33,240
Speaker 2: And also I say this because it makes me feel better,

618
00:32:33,320 --> 00:32:38,640
Speaker 2: like I've been feeling better about myself when I'm able

619
00:32:38,680 --> 00:32:40,760
Speaker 2: to take more time to express myself the way I

620
00:32:40,760 --> 00:32:42,400
Speaker 2: want to express myself. So it just it makes me

621
00:32:42,440 --> 00:32:46,200
Speaker 2: feel better about everything to kind of be more thoughtful

622
00:32:47,400 --> 00:32:51,640
Speaker 2: and to again be a little bit more just a

623
00:32:51,640 --> 00:32:54,720
Speaker 2: little bit more pointed about how I talk about myself.

624
00:32:54,720 --> 00:32:56,280
Speaker 2: And I think it's it's I know we've been going

625
00:32:56,280 --> 00:32:59,560
Speaker 2: on about this forever, but I think it's interesting in

626
00:32:59,720 --> 00:33:02,560
Speaker 2: a very specific way in my life too. So I recently,

627
00:33:03,320 --> 00:33:07,040
Speaker 2: I've been having some friction with a very old friend

628
00:33:07,040 --> 00:33:08,560
Speaker 2: of mine, someone I've known for a very very, very

629
00:33:08,640 --> 00:33:11,720
Speaker 2: very long time. And I don't think she sees it

630
00:33:11,760 --> 00:33:16,480
Speaker 2: as friction, because what's happened is that I've noticed over

631
00:33:16,520 --> 00:33:21,080
Speaker 2: the years that she's very derisive towards me. And it's

632
00:33:21,080 --> 00:33:23,840
Speaker 2: not in that jokey way of like, what's up, be

633
00:33:23,840 --> 00:33:26,200
Speaker 2: a fucking asshole, Like, it's not in that way. It's

634
00:33:26,240 --> 00:33:30,280
Speaker 2: like I will say something like, hey, I'm having a

635
00:33:30,320 --> 00:33:31,880
Speaker 2: bad day or I'm having it like we're in a

636
00:33:31,920 --> 00:33:33,240
Speaker 2: group chat together and I'm like, oh, I'm having a

637
00:33:33,280 --> 00:33:36,320
Speaker 2: bad day or I'm having this experience, and she'll say, well,

638
00:33:36,360 --> 00:33:38,600
Speaker 2: there's nothing I can do about that, you know, miss

639
00:33:38,680 --> 00:33:42,400
Speaker 2: fancy pants writer. But here's how I'm feeling. And she

640
00:33:42,440 --> 00:33:46,040
Speaker 2: always makes it about her, which is a problem in

641
00:33:46,120 --> 00:33:50,160
Speaker 2: general in our friendship that she's not able to engage

642
00:33:50,200 --> 00:33:54,920
Speaker 2: on any topic that is not expressly about her. But

643
00:33:54,960 --> 00:33:57,160
Speaker 2: then the way that she talks to and about me

644
00:33:58,320 --> 00:34:01,920
Speaker 2: makes me feel like, oh, you don't know me anymore.

645
00:34:02,680 --> 00:34:04,800
Speaker 2: You don't know me anymore. And so I was talking

646
00:34:04,800 --> 00:34:08,560
Speaker 2: about it in therapy and Donna said something very interesting.

647
00:34:08,640 --> 00:34:10,799
Speaker 2: She was like, this is just somebody that you have

648
00:34:10,960 --> 00:34:14,880
Speaker 2: known for a long time. This is not a longtime friend. Yes,

649
00:34:15,440 --> 00:34:17,520
Speaker 2: And it really fucked me up to think of it

650
00:34:17,520 --> 00:34:20,120
Speaker 2: that way, like, oh, you're absolutely right, Like this is

651
00:34:20,200 --> 00:34:22,799
Speaker 2: something that has. It's a distance that's been growing between us,

652
00:34:22,960 --> 00:34:24,680
Speaker 2: not because of anything that I have done, which is

653
00:34:24,680 --> 00:34:28,440
Speaker 2: why I think that it's very surprising to me because

654
00:34:28,440 --> 00:34:31,239
Speaker 2: we've been in contact and we've been you know, but

655
00:34:31,320 --> 00:34:34,160
Speaker 2: I've been seeing this happen and actually had it confirmed

656
00:34:34,160 --> 00:34:37,560
Speaker 2: with other friends in this group who are like, yeah,

657
00:34:37,600 --> 00:34:39,719
Speaker 2: we see her doing this. We're not sure what's going on,

658
00:34:41,400 --> 00:34:46,080
Speaker 2: but we see it too. And it's really a lot

659
00:34:46,080 --> 00:34:49,919
Speaker 2: of it is just people's inability to see you evolve, yes,

660
00:34:50,000 --> 00:34:52,120
Speaker 2: and it kind of makes them feel bad about their

661
00:34:52,160 --> 00:34:56,520
Speaker 2: own lack of evolution or whatever it is that she's

662
00:34:56,560 --> 00:35:00,520
Speaker 2: projecting on to me. It's now gotten to point where

663
00:35:00,560 --> 00:35:04,719
Speaker 2: I feel like, well, I can't tell you things because

664
00:35:05,560 --> 00:35:10,320
Speaker 2: when I tell you things, eventually it comes back conversationally

665
00:35:10,400 --> 00:35:13,839
Speaker 2: as something that you use against me and you as

666
00:35:13,840 --> 00:35:17,600
Speaker 2: a way to denigrate me. And I do not put

667
00:35:17,680 --> 00:35:19,160
Speaker 2: up with that shit, Like I do not have people

668
00:35:19,200 --> 00:35:20,640
Speaker 2: in my life that do that, and I don't want

669
00:35:20,640 --> 00:35:21,920
Speaker 2: to have people in my life that do that. So

670
00:35:21,920 --> 00:35:23,440
Speaker 2: the fact of this is somebody that I've known for

671
00:35:23,680 --> 00:35:27,799
Speaker 2: like over thirty years it's doing this and is incapable

672
00:35:27,800 --> 00:35:31,080
Speaker 2: of having a discussion about it because I've tried to say, like, hey,

673
00:35:31,120 --> 00:35:33,200
Speaker 2: what's going on, and like, you know, I've tried to

674
00:35:33,239 --> 00:35:36,839
Speaker 2: have this discussion with her and it's always brushed off as, Oh,

675
00:35:36,880 --> 00:35:38,360
Speaker 2: I'm just kidding her. Oh, that's just the way that

676
00:35:38,400 --> 00:35:41,759
Speaker 2: we talk. And if I, you know, say to her specifically, well,

677
00:35:41,800 --> 00:35:44,440
Speaker 2: this actually hurts my feelings when you say that, and

678
00:35:44,480 --> 00:35:47,120
Speaker 2: then she still keeps doing it. I'm like, all right,

679
00:35:47,200 --> 00:35:50,200
Speaker 2: I'm a punching bag for some reason for you, for

680
00:35:50,280 --> 00:35:52,160
Speaker 2: you to work out your shit, and I don't want

681
00:35:52,200 --> 00:35:53,840
Speaker 2: to be that, and I don't want our friendship to

682
00:35:53,880 --> 00:35:56,640
Speaker 2: be that. But we've known each other for a very

683
00:35:56,760 --> 00:35:58,560
Speaker 2: very long time, so I think I've given her a

684
00:35:58,640 --> 00:36:02,240
Speaker 2: very wide berth in terms of yeah, like how I react,

685
00:36:02,520 --> 00:36:04,560
Speaker 2: but I'm not. So now I'm at a point where

686
00:36:04,560 --> 00:36:08,319
Speaker 2: I'm kind of across the board not accepting that even

687
00:36:08,320 --> 00:36:10,240
Speaker 2: from people I've known for a very long time.

688
00:36:10,280 --> 00:36:12,239
Speaker 1: Just because I've known you for a long time, that

689
00:36:12,239 --> 00:36:16,360
Speaker 1: doesn't mean shit. Sorry, yeah, that doesn't mean shit. Like yeah,

690
00:36:16,600 --> 00:36:19,520
Speaker 1: first of all, old friends do not mean good friends.

691
00:36:19,800 --> 00:36:24,759
Speaker 1: Just as Donna says, I truly believe that. Okay, yes,

692
00:36:24,880 --> 00:36:29,040
Speaker 1: there's a instinct to want to continue with people that

693
00:36:29,080 --> 00:36:30,400
Speaker 1: you've known for a long time, and I've seen you

694
00:36:30,400 --> 00:36:33,040
Speaker 1: through all these phases of life. Theoretically, we're not seeing

695
00:36:33,040 --> 00:36:35,520
Speaker 1: you through the phases of life, right They're keeping you

696
00:36:35,600 --> 00:36:38,799
Speaker 1: in this box of thinking of the way that you

697
00:36:38,880 --> 00:36:42,640
Speaker 1: were a long time ago, and the reality is somebody

698
00:36:42,680 --> 00:36:46,160
Speaker 1: that you knew thirty years ago may not know you

699
00:36:46,200 --> 00:36:51,080
Speaker 1: anymore at all, right period. That really disturbs me. And

700
00:36:51,320 --> 00:36:53,960
Speaker 1: I don't know she's listening right now.

701
00:36:53,880 --> 00:36:57,600
Speaker 2: Probably not because she fucking hates everything I do, apparently listen.

702
00:36:57,640 --> 00:37:01,040
Speaker 1: Maybe she maybe she hate listens. You never know, But

703
00:37:01,400 --> 00:37:03,200
Speaker 1: that to me is just that's like one of my

704
00:37:03,239 --> 00:37:07,400
Speaker 1: pet peeves. Honestly, it's just people who just you know,

705
00:37:08,200 --> 00:37:11,759
Speaker 1: don't want to grow with you and they don't want

706
00:37:11,800 --> 00:37:17,160
Speaker 1: to take the time to evolve. They're thinking of you,

707
00:37:17,160 --> 00:37:20,520
Speaker 1: you know. And first of all, there is definitely some

708
00:37:21,800 --> 00:37:25,799
Speaker 1: fucking like weird shit about the fancy pants writer thing,

709
00:37:25,840 --> 00:37:28,879
Speaker 1: because it's like, I mean, come on, let's see see

710
00:37:28,880 --> 00:37:32,080
Speaker 1: that for what it is. But I'm also like, at

711
00:37:32,120 --> 00:37:34,800
Speaker 1: the end of the day, if I have zero friends,

712
00:37:35,600 --> 00:37:39,239
Speaker 1: because I refuse to like hang on to this like

713
00:37:39,560 --> 00:37:43,040
Speaker 1: nostalgic dream that I'm gonna be like besties with like

714
00:37:43,160 --> 00:37:45,320
Speaker 1: the first person that I ever met in my life,

715
00:37:45,960 --> 00:37:48,880
Speaker 1: then so be it. Because if you're not on the

716
00:37:48,920 --> 00:37:54,080
Speaker 1: same page, if you're not like leveling up emotionally and

717
00:37:54,400 --> 00:37:57,520
Speaker 1: spiritually and things like that, then what are we doing.

718
00:37:57,920 --> 00:38:01,440
Speaker 1: And you don't know me understand that my feelings are

719
00:38:01,480 --> 00:38:03,759
Speaker 1: being hurt when you like say this shit about me,

720
00:38:04,440 --> 00:38:06,600
Speaker 1: and maybe do some fucking work on yourself that you're

721
00:38:06,640 --> 00:38:09,040
Speaker 1: not jealous of your friends like that, Yeah, I know

722
00:38:09,320 --> 00:38:12,239
Speaker 1: where you have to like put their ass down and

723
00:38:12,320 --> 00:38:15,120
Speaker 1: like then we can talk about having a thirty year friendship.

724
00:38:15,280 --> 00:38:15,919
Speaker 1: That's all I'm saying.

725
00:38:16,000 --> 00:38:18,560
Speaker 2: Yeah, no, I feel you feel and I do have

726
00:38:18,600 --> 00:38:20,560
Speaker 2: friends that I've known for a very long time that

727
00:38:20,600 --> 00:38:23,080
Speaker 2: I feel like, oh, yeah, we're probably more acquaintances now

728
00:38:23,120 --> 00:38:26,120
Speaker 2: because of you know, geography or circumstance or whatever. And

729
00:38:26,120 --> 00:38:27,959
Speaker 2: that's fine, Like I still love them just as much,

730
00:38:28,280 --> 00:38:30,279
Speaker 2: but it's just changed in a little bit of a way.

731
00:38:30,280 --> 00:38:32,680
Speaker 2: And that's fine, and it doesn't But what's what's I

732
00:38:32,680 --> 00:38:35,319
Speaker 2: think painful to me about this particular person is I'm like, Oh,

733
00:38:35,440 --> 00:38:38,759
Speaker 2: you don't want to know me. It's more important for

734
00:38:38,800 --> 00:38:40,440
Speaker 2: you to keep me in a place in your mind

735
00:38:40,480 --> 00:38:43,560
Speaker 2: where you can make yourself feel better by being an asshole.

736
00:38:43,600 --> 00:38:47,560
Speaker 2: To me right that I can't abide like at all.

737
00:38:48,040 --> 00:38:52,080
Speaker 1: Well, absolutely, and like the fact that you're coming to

738
00:38:52,239 --> 00:38:55,319
Speaker 1: it with you being a very open person wanting to

739
00:38:55,360 --> 00:38:58,200
Speaker 1: discuss something that's like really important to you, and then

740
00:38:58,200 --> 00:39:01,040
Speaker 1: they're just like shutting it down with some like bullshit.

741
00:39:01,080 --> 00:39:04,240
Speaker 1: But then expecting that you're going to be that person

742
00:39:04,360 --> 00:39:06,359
Speaker 1: for them is bullshit, dude.

743
00:39:06,640 --> 00:39:09,719
Speaker 2: Complete and that's what it is. It's always again like

744
00:39:09,760 --> 00:39:12,160
Speaker 2: the way that she kind of manipulates everything to be

745
00:39:12,239 --> 00:39:14,239
Speaker 2: about her, And I'm like, okay, so you want us

746
00:39:14,320 --> 00:39:16,799
Speaker 2: all to be here for you in a way that

747
00:39:16,880 --> 00:39:20,680
Speaker 2: you refuse to be there for us, like a flat

748
00:39:20,719 --> 00:39:23,719
Speaker 2: out refuse to be there for us. Yeah, it's very

749
00:39:24,000 --> 00:39:26,920
Speaker 2: imbalanced and it makes me feel like shit, and I

750
00:39:26,960 --> 00:39:29,200
Speaker 2: just don't want to do it anymore. So again, just

751
00:39:29,280 --> 00:39:35,040
Speaker 2: reviewing the whole last hour, you got to but I

752
00:39:35,280 --> 00:39:38,920
Speaker 2: just think that I'm starting at home. It starts starts

753
00:39:38,960 --> 00:39:41,719
Speaker 2: in the home of my brain. So I'm going to

754
00:39:41,840 --> 00:39:46,480
Speaker 2: go forward with how I express myself, how I perceive things,

755
00:39:46,800 --> 00:39:48,960
Speaker 2: what I'm willing to take in, what I'm not willing

756
00:39:49,000 --> 00:39:51,879
Speaker 2: to take in, how I engage with things, and how

757
00:39:51,880 --> 00:39:54,040
Speaker 2: people engage with me. Like I just I have to

758
00:39:54,080 --> 00:39:57,759
Speaker 2: start with my own brain and my own abilities in

759
00:39:57,880 --> 00:40:00,120
Speaker 2: order to not feel bad every day.

760
00:40:00,520 --> 00:40:03,520
Speaker 1: And the fact that you are taking that responsibility means

761
00:40:03,520 --> 00:40:06,720
Speaker 1: that you are a well evolved person.

762
00:40:06,920 --> 00:40:07,319
Speaker 2: Trust me.

763
00:40:08,200 --> 00:40:11,120
Speaker 1: The fact that you're not guess everybody else's fault of mine,

764
00:40:12,280 --> 00:40:16,320
Speaker 1: which happens all the rags with a lot of people.

765
00:40:16,760 --> 00:40:18,880
Speaker 1: But the fact that you're like willing to do the

766
00:40:19,000 --> 00:40:21,040
Speaker 1: work of it, making it like a little bit of

767
00:40:21,080 --> 00:40:24,240
Speaker 1: your task to kind of sort out things is healthy.

768
00:40:24,320 --> 00:40:25,640
Speaker 1: That's mental health.

769
00:40:26,520 --> 00:40:28,640
Speaker 2: It is because I want to keep making stuff. I

770
00:40:28,640 --> 00:40:30,160
Speaker 2: want to keep being me. I want to keep putting

771
00:40:30,160 --> 00:40:32,399
Speaker 2: stuff in the world. And also, the thing they don't

772
00:40:32,440 --> 00:40:35,840
Speaker 2: tell you about therapy is there's a lot of healing

773
00:40:36,120 --> 00:40:38,880
Speaker 2: that can happen. The work does not stop there, and

774
00:40:38,920 --> 00:40:42,120
Speaker 2: it's fucking infuriating. Sometimes I'm like, oh, now that I

775
00:40:42,160 --> 00:40:44,399
Speaker 2: feel better about this, I have a lot more work

776
00:40:44,400 --> 00:40:49,200
Speaker 2: to do in my life to sustain it. Or it

777
00:40:49,840 --> 00:40:54,000
Speaker 2: just brings so much more work, welcome work, and eventually

778
00:40:54,080 --> 00:40:58,160
Speaker 2: I'm told it becomes easier and more natural. But you

779
00:40:58,160 --> 00:41:00,719
Speaker 2: could heal all you fucking want, and that does not

780
00:41:01,080 --> 00:41:04,000
Speaker 2: stop the work. Oh.

781
00:41:04,040 --> 00:41:06,040
Speaker 1: I was like the other day I was thinking about that.

782
00:41:06,080 --> 00:41:07,520
Speaker 1: I was like, man, I'm gonna be in this shit

783
00:41:07,600 --> 00:41:12,440
Speaker 1: forever forever, Like I've been in it for like ten years,

784
00:41:12,960 --> 00:41:15,840
Speaker 1: and I'm like, I'm not finished. I'm not even close.

785
00:41:16,760 --> 00:41:20,000
Speaker 1: Who stops me? Like I'm done, pack it up? I

786
00:41:20,280 --> 00:41:22,279
Speaker 1: will what.

787
00:41:23,960 --> 00:41:28,560
Speaker 2: I'm genuinely worried that my therapist will die, which I

788
00:41:28,560 --> 00:41:31,320
Speaker 2: know will happen one day, and it could happen tomorrow.

789
00:41:31,480 --> 00:41:34,600
Speaker 2: Nothing is promised. But she's an older woman and I'm

790
00:41:34,640 --> 00:41:37,239
Speaker 2: afraid she is going to die because I'm like, oh,

791
00:41:37,320 --> 00:41:39,359
Speaker 2: now that I realize this is never going to end,

792
00:41:39,480 --> 00:41:41,680
Speaker 2: you can never leave me. I can't do this with

793
00:41:41,760 --> 00:41:45,080
Speaker 2: somebody else, and I don't want a twenty year old therapist.

794
00:41:45,640 --> 00:41:47,640
Speaker 2: So if you die, what am I gonna do?

795
00:41:49,840 --> 00:41:53,080
Speaker 1: There'd better be a next of kin's situation worked out.

796
00:41:53,320 --> 00:41:57,880
Speaker 2: Oh my god, can this be a family fucking business?

797
00:41:58,239 --> 00:42:01,880
Speaker 1: Yeah? I need you to lead, to assign your successor,

798
00:42:02,080 --> 00:42:04,840
Speaker 1: because there can't be a break in this chain.

799
00:42:05,040 --> 00:42:07,799
Speaker 2: Baby, Absolutely get your grandkids above. And it can't be

800
00:42:07,840 --> 00:42:10,799
Speaker 2: her son because her son is actually a very well

801
00:42:10,800 --> 00:42:11,720
Speaker 2: known Hollywood actor.

802
00:42:12,600 --> 00:42:15,840
Speaker 1: Wow, yeah, let him be your therapist. He seems like

803
00:42:15,960 --> 00:42:16,560
Speaker 1: no kidder.

804
00:42:16,840 --> 00:42:19,480
Speaker 2: No, it can't be him, but maybe his kids. Maybe

805
00:42:19,600 --> 00:42:21,759
Speaker 2: we can keep the line of succession going maybe his

806
00:42:21,800 --> 00:42:24,399
Speaker 2: wife like skip, skip generations, skip however you want. But

807
00:42:24,440 --> 00:42:26,600
Speaker 2: my therapist can never leave me, and it's starting to

808
00:42:26,640 --> 00:42:30,440
Speaker 2: become a new fear as I heal. So thanks for

809
00:42:30,520 --> 00:42:33,160
Speaker 2: the healing, but now I'm attached to you forever.

810
00:42:33,680 --> 00:42:35,439
Speaker 1: That's right, that's right.

811
00:42:35,520 --> 00:42:38,360
Speaker 2: Oh my god. Well I feel like some of this

812
00:42:38,440 --> 00:42:40,400
Speaker 2: probably came up because of our fucking theme this week.

813
00:42:41,160 --> 00:42:51,239
Speaker 3: Oh I bet do you want to tell them what

814
00:42:51,320 --> 00:42:51,920
Speaker 3: our theme is?

815
00:42:51,920 --> 00:42:53,200
Speaker 2: Because this is one of yours.

816
00:42:53,840 --> 00:42:56,759
Speaker 1: It's really oh yes, you.

817
00:42:56,680 --> 00:42:59,239
Speaker 2: Know mine always have like fifteen fucking words in them.

818
00:43:00,160 --> 00:43:02,560
Speaker 2: Mine are always like full fucking sentences.

819
00:43:03,320 --> 00:43:05,400
Speaker 1: You must have named it after me, though, because I

820
00:43:05,680 --> 00:43:08,720
Speaker 1: truly believe that the actual title is your creation.

821
00:43:09,120 --> 00:43:13,960
Speaker 2: Possibly, yeah, but the theme itself is like the yeah, yeah, okay.

822
00:43:14,320 --> 00:43:19,439
Speaker 1: So the theme this week is staunch women, and again

823
00:43:19,440 --> 00:43:22,680
Speaker 1: we're in March. We are kind of doing some episodes about,

824
00:43:22,800 --> 00:43:27,640
Speaker 1: you know, movies involving women that we love, and to

825
00:43:27,719 --> 00:43:30,000
Speaker 1: be honest, like, you know, I think when I was

826
00:43:30,040 --> 00:43:32,040
Speaker 1: thinking about it, I was like, oh, yeah, this would

827
00:43:32,040 --> 00:43:34,760
Speaker 1: be a good theme, and then you dropped your movie

828
00:43:35,040 --> 00:43:36,800
Speaker 1: and was like, dude, perfect.

829
00:43:38,080 --> 00:43:41,160
Speaker 2: Well, because I think my interpretation of it too was

830
00:43:41,800 --> 00:43:45,040
Speaker 2: a look at women who have chosen interesting roles, or

831
00:43:45,080 --> 00:43:49,520
Speaker 2: who consistently choose interesting roles, right, because I appreciate that,

832
00:43:49,600 --> 00:43:52,040
Speaker 2: and it doesn't happen very often anymore where someone has

833
00:43:52,040 --> 00:43:56,399
Speaker 2: a career built on choosing interesting or where you don't

834
00:43:56,400 --> 00:43:58,960
Speaker 2: know what their next step is going to be. So

835
00:43:59,000 --> 00:44:01,399
Speaker 2: I just appreciate that a lot in your movie too,

836
00:44:01,680 --> 00:44:03,160
Speaker 2: Like your movie is Wild.

837
00:44:03,520 --> 00:44:06,600
Speaker 1: Wild, I also snuck in. So I did a thing

838
00:44:06,640 --> 00:44:08,520
Speaker 1: where I was like, you know what I could talk

839
00:44:08,520 --> 00:44:11,799
Speaker 1: about like one woman, but instead I'm gonna talk about two.

840
00:44:12,719 --> 00:44:14,719
Speaker 2: Well, you're gonna first and talk about it. Let's get

841
00:44:14,760 --> 00:44:15,160
Speaker 2: into it.

842
00:44:15,400 --> 00:44:19,240
Speaker 1: Let's go okay. So my movie for the theme staunch

843
00:44:19,360 --> 00:44:23,319
Speaker 1: women is from nineteen sixty seven. It was written by

844
00:44:23,560 --> 00:44:27,719
Speaker 1: Louis John Carlino and Howard Cooke, directed by Mark right Al,

845
00:44:28,160 --> 00:44:29,760
Speaker 1: and it's called The Fawks.

846
00:44:30,080 --> 00:44:33,239
Speaker 4: There's no room here for a married couple. His farm

847
00:44:33,280 --> 00:44:36,799
Speaker 4: doesn't make any money. There's absolutely no chance of you're

848
00:44:36,840 --> 00:44:40,240
Speaker 4: staying on here if you're married, Absolutely no Dan.

849
00:44:40,120 --> 00:44:42,360
Speaker 2: Daren Darre And it's based on a DH Lawrence short

850
00:44:42,360 --> 00:44:43,319
Speaker 2: story which I didn't know.

851
00:44:43,680 --> 00:44:46,200
Speaker 1: Yes, I knew that, but then I never read it.

852
00:44:46,239 --> 00:44:49,040
Speaker 1: So I was like, yeah, you know, maybe it's time

853
00:44:49,080 --> 00:44:51,920
Speaker 1: to go back and read that. Tell the listeners how

854
00:44:52,320 --> 00:44:55,239
Speaker 1: fucking long I've been waiting to drop this shit in

855
00:44:55,320 --> 00:44:56,080
Speaker 1: an episode?

856
00:44:56,200 --> 00:44:59,720
Speaker 2: I would say since the second week we started the podcast.

857
00:44:59,800 --> 00:45:02,680
Speaker 1: Yeah, right, Like I was, like, have we not talked

858
00:45:02,680 --> 00:45:05,560
Speaker 1: about doing this movie since the very beginning?

859
00:45:05,760 --> 00:45:07,080
Speaker 2: Easily three years? Easily?

860
00:45:07,360 --> 00:45:11,160
Speaker 1: It has come off the list multiple times because it's

861
00:45:11,239 --> 00:45:15,080
Speaker 1: not available. It's like one of those like twenty eight

862
00:45:15,160 --> 00:45:19,239
Speaker 1: days later scenarios where it's just like not available. You know,

863
00:45:19,960 --> 00:45:26,360
Speaker 1: there's technically a standard def DVB of it on Amazon

864
00:45:27,280 --> 00:45:30,080
Speaker 1: that is like a Warner Archive release, meaning I think

865
00:45:30,080 --> 00:45:33,359
Speaker 1: it's like a movie on demand, which means basically they

866
00:45:33,719 --> 00:45:37,520
Speaker 1: burn you the movie on a disc if you order it.

867
00:45:37,560 --> 00:45:41,160
Speaker 1: But it's not like out there in that kind of Hey,

868
00:45:41,200 --> 00:45:43,000
Speaker 1: I'm going to run the best Buy and go grab

869
00:45:43,040 --> 00:45:44,600
Speaker 1: me a DVD of The Fox?

870
00:45:45,160 --> 00:45:48,360
Speaker 3: What is this nineteen ninety eight grub the best I

871
00:45:48,360 --> 00:45:51,160
Speaker 3: could have said media play, but I said best Buy.

872
00:45:53,360 --> 00:45:55,919
Speaker 1: I don't. Yeah, I'm sure best Buy doesn't even really

873
00:45:55,920 --> 00:45:58,920
Speaker 1: have DVDs anymore, or they do if they have like ten.

874
00:45:59,000 --> 00:46:01,840
Speaker 2: They definitely do. Because I was there buying an Internet

875
00:46:03,080 --> 00:46:06,640
Speaker 2: an Internet extender a few months ago and I was

876
00:46:06,719 --> 00:46:09,920
Speaker 2: shocked to have happened upon what to me feels like

877
00:46:09,960 --> 00:46:14,920
Speaker 2: the last DVD section outside of independent stores, like the

878
00:46:15,000 --> 00:46:17,840
Speaker 2: last big box DVD section. It was all like towards

879
00:46:17,840 --> 00:46:19,279
Speaker 2: the front, so it was just kind of a couple

880
00:46:19,320 --> 00:46:21,719
Speaker 2: of racks towards the front. But it was I'm like, oh,

881
00:46:21,719 --> 00:46:23,799
Speaker 2: they're still doing this all right, cool, So a couple

882
00:46:23,840 --> 00:46:24,200
Speaker 2: of racks.

883
00:46:24,200 --> 00:46:26,200
Speaker 1: Would you call it an aisle? It wasn't an aisle,

884
00:46:26,440 --> 00:46:27,280
Speaker 1: not even an aisle.

885
00:46:27,320 --> 00:46:29,920
Speaker 2: It was like a couple of like extended end caps,

886
00:46:30,120 --> 00:46:30,920
Speaker 2: is what I would call it.

887
00:46:31,640 --> 00:46:34,200
Speaker 1: Sad, how the Mighty have fallen?

888
00:46:35,120 --> 00:46:35,480
Speaker 2: Bleak?

889
00:46:36,640 --> 00:46:39,920
Speaker 1: Yeah, but like it's not online, which is basically like

890
00:46:40,000 --> 00:46:42,680
Speaker 1: why I was telling people the internet archive is your

891
00:46:42,719 --> 00:46:45,480
Speaker 1: friend on this one again. But then it was on

892
00:46:46,320 --> 00:46:48,080
Speaker 1: the archive for a while and then it was off.

893
00:46:48,280 --> 00:46:51,520
Speaker 1: So we found a window. As of this recording, it's

894
00:46:51,560 --> 00:46:55,880
Speaker 1: on internet archive. Hopefully you'll check it out before it

895
00:46:55,880 --> 00:46:59,319
Speaker 1: disappears again. But we've been wanting to do this for

896
00:46:59,320 --> 00:47:01,680
Speaker 1: a long time. So I want to talk about my

897
00:47:01,719 --> 00:47:04,360
Speaker 1: staunch women up front, I think because I think it

898
00:47:04,360 --> 00:47:07,040
Speaker 1: would be nice to kind of spotlight them. And again

899
00:47:07,600 --> 00:47:09,920
Speaker 1: I did a thing where I was like, well, I

900
00:47:09,920 --> 00:47:12,040
Speaker 1: can't just keep it to one. I want to talk

901
00:47:12,040 --> 00:47:16,400
Speaker 1: about both the stars, the female stars of The Fox,

902
00:47:16,840 --> 00:47:20,800
Speaker 1: Sandy Dennis and Ann Haywood. Now, Sandy Dennis is probably

903
00:47:21,000 --> 00:47:25,960
Speaker 1: better known slightly than Anne Haywood in America, but I

904
00:47:26,000 --> 00:47:29,359
Speaker 1: will say this, I realized something when I was doing

905
00:47:29,400 --> 00:47:33,680
Speaker 1: research for this episode that if you google Sandy Dennis,

906
00:47:33,800 --> 00:47:37,239
Speaker 1: the actress Sandy Dennis, there are a ton of search

907
00:47:37,360 --> 00:47:42,520
Speaker 1: hits where people have confused her with either Sandy Duncan

908
00:47:42,800 --> 00:47:49,719
Speaker 1: from the Hogan Family. Right, everybody remembers that show with Jason.

909
00:47:49,480 --> 00:47:54,160
Speaker 2: Bateman podcast Billionaire Jason Bateman.

910
00:47:54,040 --> 00:47:59,879
Speaker 1: Podcast, Triple Trillionaire Jason Bateman, and also so they could

911
00:48:00,040 --> 00:48:04,960
Speaker 1: they confused Sandy Dennis with Sandy Duncan. And also Sandy Denny,

912
00:48:05,520 --> 00:48:07,960
Speaker 1: who is a British singer songwriter who is in that

913
00:48:08,040 --> 00:48:09,440
Speaker 1: band Fairport Convention.

914
00:48:10,040 --> 00:48:11,960
Speaker 2: Oh my god, these are deep cuts.

915
00:48:12,400 --> 00:48:16,480
Speaker 1: Yes, So, because when I googled Sandy Dennis, some search

916
00:48:16,520 --> 00:48:20,440
Speaker 1: hit came up where it says Sandy Dennis glass eye,

917
00:48:22,320 --> 00:48:25,879
Speaker 1: and I was like, did Sandy Dennis have a glass eye? No,

918
00:48:26,000 --> 00:48:30,399
Speaker 1: that's actually a rumor about Sandy Duncan. And I didn't

919
00:48:30,400 --> 00:48:31,000
Speaker 1: even know that.

920
00:48:31,160 --> 00:48:34,319
Speaker 2: I knew that one. Red Yeah, and you know who

921
00:48:34,360 --> 00:48:38,800
Speaker 2: told me that rumor? My grandma, who's a fucking blabbermouthed.

922
00:48:38,800 --> 00:48:42,080
Speaker 2: When I was a kid, we were watching fucking Hogan Family.

923
00:48:42,120 --> 00:48:45,279
Speaker 2: Probably She's like, oh, yeah, Sandy Duncan. She was in

924
00:48:45,480 --> 00:48:48,719
Speaker 2: she was Peter Pan and some production of Peter Pan

925
00:48:48,800 --> 00:48:51,160
Speaker 2: that's well known and she has a glass eye. And

926
00:48:51,200 --> 00:48:53,360
Speaker 2: I was like for the rest of my fucking life

927
00:48:53,360 --> 00:48:54,880
Speaker 2: trying to figure out if that was true. And I

928
00:48:54,920 --> 00:48:57,719
Speaker 2: haven't hooked it up since the internet has been invented. Yeah,

929
00:48:57,760 --> 00:49:01,680
Speaker 2: my grandmother told me that rumor. Wow, I have literally

930
00:49:01,960 --> 00:49:08,680
Speaker 2: never That's amazing. You blow my mind.

931
00:49:09,120 --> 00:49:12,960
Speaker 1: The glass eye rumor, the Roman Empire thing. I'm like,

932
00:49:13,440 --> 00:49:14,239
Speaker 1: where have I been?

933
00:49:15,320 --> 00:49:18,600
Speaker 2: Shit? And again I have never looked it up. I

934
00:49:18,640 --> 00:49:19,440
Speaker 2: don't know if it's true.

935
00:49:19,760 --> 00:49:23,080
Speaker 1: Yeah, I feel like it's debunked or something. But again

936
00:49:23,120 --> 00:49:26,480
Speaker 1: I don't know. I'd have to look it up. But anyway,

937
00:49:26,600 --> 00:49:28,960
Speaker 1: so there's a lot of confusion about who Sandy Dennis

938
00:49:28,960 --> 00:49:33,360
Speaker 1: actually is. But to me, I think her most famous

939
00:49:33,440 --> 00:49:36,760
Speaker 1: role is in Who's Afraid of Virginia? Wolf and Danielle

940
00:49:36,760 --> 00:49:39,120
Speaker 1: presented that movie a while back and talked about Sandy

941
00:49:39,160 --> 00:49:42,880
Speaker 1: Dennis and if you can imagine her role in that film, right,

942
00:49:43,600 --> 00:49:46,920
Speaker 1: that is sort of her acting style, right, She's played

943
00:49:46,960 --> 00:49:49,960
Speaker 1: a lot of you know, I guess, characters that have

944
00:49:50,000 --> 00:49:52,319
Speaker 1: a lot of emotional energy, I would say, And that's

945
00:49:52,400 --> 00:49:54,239
Speaker 1: kind of the way she is in my movie in

946
00:49:54,280 --> 00:49:57,960
Speaker 1: the Fox. But to me, she's such an interesting person.

947
00:49:58,080 --> 00:50:03,600
Speaker 1: She's made very interesting movies. I mean, she was in

948
00:50:03,920 --> 00:50:08,040
Speaker 1: everything from like That Cold Day in the Park to

949
00:50:08,440 --> 00:50:13,799
Speaker 1: the Larry Cohen film God Told Me To. She was

950
00:50:13,920 --> 00:50:18,040
Speaker 1: primarily a Broadway stage actress and she was very successful there,

951
00:50:18,120 --> 00:50:19,759
Speaker 1: but then she made the jump to movies and then

952
00:50:19,880 --> 00:50:23,000
Speaker 1: just did really interesting movie roles. First of all, she

953
00:50:23,160 --> 00:50:25,640
Speaker 1: died pretty young. I will say. She died in her

954
00:50:25,840 --> 00:50:29,879
Speaker 1: early fifties. She had ovarian cancer. So if she had lived,

955
00:50:29,920 --> 00:50:34,399
Speaker 1: I'm sure her film career would have been a lot

956
00:50:34,440 --> 00:50:39,000
Speaker 1: more interesting than it already was. Right, But she sort

957
00:50:39,000 --> 00:50:43,960
Speaker 1: of had this famous relationship with Eric Roberts, and Eric

958
00:50:44,080 --> 00:50:46,879
Speaker 1: Roberts was like twenty years younger than her. But then

959
00:50:46,960 --> 00:50:50,520
Speaker 1: also there had been rumors circulating about her, like very

960
00:50:50,600 --> 00:50:53,680
Speaker 1: early in her career actually about her being gay. And

961
00:50:53,760 --> 00:50:56,440
Speaker 1: so it was this kind of thing where like she

962
00:50:56,719 --> 00:51:01,400
Speaker 1: had famous partners who were men in her life, but

963
00:51:01,640 --> 00:51:05,680
Speaker 1: then people like she kind of I don't know how

964
00:51:05,719 --> 00:51:09,839
Speaker 1: to describe it, not debunked being married to them, but

965
00:51:09,920 --> 00:51:13,000
Speaker 1: like like she was kind of like, yeah, they were

966
00:51:13,040 --> 00:51:16,359
Speaker 1: my partners, but we weren't like in this marriage. I

967
00:51:16,360 --> 00:51:19,400
Speaker 1: guess I saw her talk of this one interview with

968
00:51:19,440 --> 00:51:22,840
Speaker 1: somebody who they had, I guess, accused her of being

969
00:51:22,880 --> 00:51:26,880
Speaker 1: married to a man, and she was like, that's not true.

970
00:51:27,000 --> 00:51:29,239
Speaker 1: I was never married to him, I know, which I

971
00:51:29,280 --> 00:51:34,799
Speaker 1: was like, amazing, Like that's cool. But she, I mean,

972
00:51:34,840 --> 00:51:37,640
Speaker 1: even Eric Roberts I think at some point had talked

973
00:51:37,680 --> 00:51:42,279
Speaker 1: about how he considered her bisexual. And so it's this,

974
00:51:42,680 --> 00:51:45,920
Speaker 1: you know, she obviously like wasn't you know, playing by

975
00:51:46,120 --> 00:51:50,200
Speaker 1: the kind of gender rules in that era in like

976
00:51:50,560 --> 00:51:55,360
Speaker 1: the sixties, seventies, eighties, right, But she also like rescued

977
00:51:55,400 --> 00:52:00,799
Speaker 1: stray cats from Grand Central Station. So she was a

978
00:52:00,840 --> 00:52:07,320
Speaker 1: beautiful catwoman. She never wanted kids, Like am I painting

979
00:52:07,360 --> 00:52:09,520
Speaker 1: a picture for all of y'all? Do you see why

980
00:52:09,520 --> 00:52:13,160
Speaker 1: I would like her? I think you are really good, right.

981
00:52:13,280 --> 00:52:15,919
Speaker 2: A beautiful catwoman is the only way I ever want

982
00:52:16,000 --> 00:52:16,759
Speaker 2: to be described.

983
00:52:17,280 --> 00:52:22,279
Speaker 1: She's a beautiful cat. But you know what I'm saying.

984
00:52:22,320 --> 00:52:24,720
Speaker 1: So it's like you have this like very interesting woman

985
00:52:25,320 --> 00:52:28,759
Speaker 1: who was actually very interesting in her career. So I

986
00:52:28,800 --> 00:52:30,880
Speaker 1: don't know, to me, she kind of symbolized, like, you know,

987
00:52:30,920 --> 00:52:33,080
Speaker 1: the kind of woman we're talking about on this episode.

988
00:52:33,200 --> 00:52:35,719
Speaker 1: But then you know, you also have Anne Haywood in

989
00:52:35,719 --> 00:52:39,080
Speaker 1: this film. She's a British actress. She has been in

990
00:52:39,160 --> 00:52:42,880
Speaker 1: her share of very interesting films in her career. I

991
00:52:42,960 --> 00:52:46,240
Speaker 1: will say her history is really interesting because she started

992
00:52:46,280 --> 00:52:48,319
Speaker 1: as an actress in Britain and her real name is

993
00:52:48,800 --> 00:52:49,840
Speaker 1: Violet Pretty.

994
00:52:50,800 --> 00:52:52,200
Speaker 2: Ooh, why change that?

995
00:52:52,760 --> 00:52:56,359
Speaker 1: I know, I wondered, I wondered if you know why

996
00:52:56,400 --> 00:53:00,319
Speaker 1: that happened. But hey, Violet Pretty is a great name.

997
00:53:00,680 --> 00:53:03,000
Speaker 1: That's like a Bond name.

998
00:53:03,400 --> 00:53:05,600
Speaker 2: Or like a like a the name and like a

999
00:53:05,719 --> 00:53:08,400
Speaker 2: child BBC drama.

1000
00:53:08,880 --> 00:53:16,520
Speaker 1: Yes, Violet Pretty in The Enchanted Garden or whatever. Yeah,

1001
00:53:16,560 --> 00:53:18,719
Speaker 1: but she was in you know, she was working in

1002
00:53:18,760 --> 00:53:21,560
Speaker 1: Britain like early career, and then at some point she

1003
00:53:21,719 --> 00:53:25,560
Speaker 1: married a producer named Raymond Strass and he was kind

1004
00:53:25,600 --> 00:53:27,440
Speaker 1: of like she started in a lot of his films

1005
00:53:27,440 --> 00:53:30,600
Speaker 1: and he was kind of this interesting He did a

1006
00:53:30,640 --> 00:53:35,719
Speaker 1: lot of LGBTQ themed work and she was in a

1007
00:53:35,760 --> 00:53:39,600
Speaker 1: lot of it. So she did this movie that I mean,

1008
00:53:40,120 --> 00:53:42,040
Speaker 1: it's a very interesting film. I haven't seen it in

1009
00:53:42,080 --> 00:53:43,759
Speaker 1: a very long time, but it's called I Want What

1010
00:53:43,840 --> 00:53:47,359
Speaker 1: I Want, And it was like when I was growing up.

1011
00:53:47,400 --> 00:53:49,760
Speaker 1: It was kind of one of the first like trans

1012
00:53:50,280 --> 00:53:53,400
Speaker 1: films that I'd ever seen about trans themes. Yeah, and

1013
00:53:53,480 --> 00:53:55,840
Speaker 1: it was I can't remember the year. I think it

1014
00:53:55,880 --> 00:54:00,000
Speaker 1: was like nineteen seventy two. Have to look that up. Yeah,

1015
00:54:00,120 --> 00:54:04,600
Speaker 1: is nineteen seventy I guess that, but you know, so

1016
00:54:05,000 --> 00:54:09,400
Speaker 1: she's And then she was also in this very controversial

1017
00:54:09,440 --> 00:54:13,080
Speaker 1: film called good Luck, Miss Wycoff, and it was based

1018
00:54:13,280 --> 00:54:17,719
Speaker 1: on a William Inge novel and Polly Platt wrote the

1019
00:54:17,719 --> 00:54:21,480
Speaker 1: screenplay for that film. Wow, I mean the movie is wild.

1020
00:54:21,840 --> 00:54:26,280
Speaker 1: I've actually programmed it before, like theatrically. I thought about

1021
00:54:26,320 --> 00:54:28,040
Speaker 1: maybe doing it on the podcast, but it needs a

1022
00:54:28,200 --> 00:54:31,600
Speaker 1: lot of context, so you know, it's kind of a

1023
00:54:31,640 --> 00:54:36,480
Speaker 1: shrap the fucking type of thing. But she retired from

1024
00:54:36,560 --> 00:54:39,759
Speaker 1: acting in the nineteen eighties after her husband died, and

1025
00:54:40,560 --> 00:54:42,600
Speaker 1: she as of this recording, she's still alive. She said

1026
00:54:42,640 --> 00:54:44,960
Speaker 1: her nineties. She was in Beverly Hills. You know, I

1027
00:54:45,719 --> 00:54:48,680
Speaker 1: admired her for many many years, and when I was

1028
00:54:48,719 --> 00:54:51,399
Speaker 1: still living in LA she found out that I had

1029
00:54:51,480 --> 00:54:55,600
Speaker 1: said some nice things about her in this book that

1030
00:54:56,040 --> 00:54:58,600
Speaker 1: is still being written about her, I believe by a

1031
00:54:58,600 --> 00:55:02,799
Speaker 1: professor at MTSU, and he noticed that I had programmed

1032
00:55:02,880 --> 00:55:05,600
Speaker 1: good luck, Miss why Coffin was basically like, hey, so

1033
00:55:05,760 --> 00:55:08,359
Speaker 1: I'm writing this book about Ian Heywood, and you know,

1034
00:55:08,400 --> 00:55:10,279
Speaker 1: maybe you would want to contribute a little piece. And

1035
00:55:10,280 --> 00:55:11,759
Speaker 1: I was like, oh my god, I love her. She's

1036
00:55:11,760 --> 00:55:14,720
Speaker 1: so cool and interesting. She's done really cool roles and

1037
00:55:15,040 --> 00:55:17,719
Speaker 1: like the Fox. And I guess she read it and

1038
00:55:17,760 --> 00:55:20,640
Speaker 1: then sent me a letter, like a hand written letter.

1039
00:55:21,760 --> 00:55:24,480
Speaker 1: What I was living in West Hollywood and she sent

1040
00:55:24,560 --> 00:55:26,759
Speaker 1: it from Beverly Hill, so it was just like down

1041
00:55:26,760 --> 00:55:30,400
Speaker 1: the street essentially, and I cherish it like I'm just

1042
00:55:30,400 --> 00:55:34,520
Speaker 1: like it was so sweet. Of course it had this

1043
00:55:34,640 --> 00:55:39,800
Speaker 1: like beautiful old school cursed handwriting. Oh my gosh, the

1044
00:55:39,880 --> 00:55:43,760
Speaker 1: stationary with her name on it. And I truly believe

1045
00:55:43,840 --> 00:55:46,719
Speaker 1: that there was perfume sprayed on it before because it

1046
00:55:46,960 --> 00:55:48,799
Speaker 1: came out of the envelope it smelled very nice.

1047
00:55:49,280 --> 00:55:49,520
Speaker 2: Oh.

1048
00:55:51,520 --> 00:55:53,960
Speaker 1: I was like, this is amazing. I got this like

1049
00:55:54,000 --> 00:55:58,080
Speaker 1: perfume scented beautiful letter from this movie star that I admired.

1050
00:55:58,160 --> 00:56:01,480
Speaker 2: But anyway, that is so cool. How nice of her too.

1051
00:56:01,680 --> 00:56:02,600
Speaker 2: How wonderful.

1052
00:56:03,360 --> 00:56:06,960
Speaker 1: Yeah, she's very sweet. And I had talked to her

1053
00:56:07,000 --> 00:56:09,520
Speaker 1: actually about because I actually called her on the phone

1054
00:56:09,840 --> 00:56:12,200
Speaker 1: at one point and we talked about like having lunch,

1055
00:56:12,280 --> 00:56:16,600
Speaker 1: but then COVID happened, so yeah, and then I moved.

1056
00:56:16,840 --> 00:56:20,279
Speaker 1: So anyway, I'd still love to do that sometime, but

1057
00:56:20,440 --> 00:56:23,560
Speaker 1: you know, we'll see, we'll see if it happens, man.

1058
00:56:23,840 --> 00:56:26,600
Speaker 1: But yeah, So these are the two stars of the Fox.

1059
00:56:27,160 --> 00:56:31,319
Speaker 1: They're my selections for obviously this staunch women theme. And

1060
00:56:31,960 --> 00:56:35,360
Speaker 1: this movie is very interesting to me because it's like

1061
00:56:35,400 --> 00:56:38,879
Speaker 1: a late sixties First of all, it was very very

1062
00:56:38,920 --> 00:56:43,600
Speaker 1: popular in America. It did very well here, and I

1063
00:56:43,640 --> 00:56:46,400
Speaker 1: think it's because, you know, we're sort of at this

1064
00:56:46,480 --> 00:56:49,480
Speaker 1: kind of end of the production code, a lot of

1065
00:56:49,560 --> 00:56:53,200
Speaker 1: like European influence for like the art cinema coming to

1066
00:56:53,280 --> 00:56:57,480
Speaker 1: America with now, you know, like movies are getting more risque.

1067
00:56:57,840 --> 00:57:02,040
Speaker 1: You know, we're talking about a lesbian couple effectively in

1068
00:57:02,080 --> 00:57:05,200
Speaker 1: this film. And I think that when it was released,

1069
00:57:06,239 --> 00:57:09,560
Speaker 1: you know, the studio, who I believe is Warner Brothers,

1070
00:57:09,640 --> 00:57:12,000
Speaker 1: is like, hey, we've got this like kind of steamy,

1071
00:57:12,080 --> 00:57:15,719
Speaker 1: salacious lesbian story for you.

1072
00:57:16,240 --> 00:57:16,640
Speaker 2: Take that.

1073
00:57:17,600 --> 00:57:20,240
Speaker 1: Yeah. But even though the actual movie is way more

1074
00:57:20,320 --> 00:57:23,400
Speaker 1: nuanced than that. I would say, yeah, but you know

1075
00:57:23,600 --> 00:57:26,720
Speaker 1: it definitely like caused a little bit of a stir,

1076
00:57:27,600 --> 00:57:31,280
Speaker 1: like indecency, that kind of stuff right for the time

1077
00:57:31,400 --> 00:57:34,560
Speaker 1: nineteen sixty seven. The fact that there is, you know,

1078
00:57:34,880 --> 00:57:39,400
Speaker 1: kind of these things in the movie, like masturbation and

1079
00:57:39,560 --> 00:57:44,760
Speaker 1: nudity and a lesbian couple living together. You know, it's like, yeah,

1080
00:57:44,800 --> 00:57:46,200
Speaker 1: this would have been a kind of big deal in

1081
00:57:46,200 --> 00:57:49,680
Speaker 1: that era, right, yeah, I have. I didn't write a

1082
00:57:49,720 --> 00:57:50,880
Speaker 1: one sentence synopsis.

1083
00:57:51,120 --> 00:57:52,680
Speaker 2: I didn't either this week. I don't know why I

1084
00:57:52,720 --> 00:57:55,040
Speaker 2: skipped it. Are we just gonna go off the fucking cuff?

1085
00:57:55,040 --> 00:57:57,000
Speaker 1: Should I go off the cuff? I'm scared go off

1086
00:57:57,040 --> 00:57:57,440
Speaker 1: the cuff?

1087
00:57:57,480 --> 00:57:59,040
Speaker 2: Man, try it out.

1088
00:57:59,160 --> 00:58:02,919
Speaker 1: Let's say we're gonna riff on a one sent of synopsis.

1089
00:58:04,160 --> 00:58:12,880
Speaker 1: Two women living together in rural Canada receive a strange

1090
00:58:13,240 --> 00:58:16,880
Speaker 1: visitor who attempts to destroy their lives.

1091
00:58:17,320 --> 00:58:22,920
Speaker 2: Yeah that works, Okay, that works, great job.

1092
00:58:22,920 --> 00:58:25,200
Speaker 1: Thank you. That felt dumb. But you know what, I'm

1093
00:58:25,200 --> 00:58:31,200
Speaker 1: gonna trust you. So, like I mentioned in that completely

1094
00:58:31,240 --> 00:58:35,520
Speaker 1: made up one sense synopsis, this movie stars Sandy Dennis

1095
00:58:35,600 --> 00:58:38,720
Speaker 1: and and Heywood. Sandy Dennis plays a character named jill

1096
00:58:39,560 --> 00:58:44,200
Speaker 1: And and Haywood plays a character named Ellen Marsh and

1097
00:58:44,800 --> 00:58:47,440
Speaker 1: it is suggested, I guess it's the best way to

1098
00:58:47,480 --> 00:58:49,840
Speaker 1: say it at the beginning of the film that they

1099
00:58:49,880 --> 00:58:53,800
Speaker 1: are a lesbian couple. They met in school and have

1100
00:58:54,120 --> 00:58:58,960
Speaker 1: decided to move to a cabin slash farm in the

1101
00:58:59,000 --> 00:59:04,000
Speaker 1: woods in the wilderness, right to kind of live off

1102
00:59:04,000 --> 00:59:06,640
Speaker 1: the grid, you know, maybe a little bit of like

1103
00:59:07,600 --> 00:59:10,560
Speaker 1: we're deciding to you know, be an actual lesbian couple,

1104
00:59:10,680 --> 00:59:13,640
Speaker 1: so we're trying to like live our lives without judgment,

1105
00:59:14,320 --> 00:59:16,560
Speaker 1: but also just to like live a different type of life.

1106
00:59:16,560 --> 00:59:18,680
Speaker 1: They want to raise chickens, and they want to kind

1107
00:59:18,720 --> 00:59:22,320
Speaker 1: of like be you know, kind of like what you're doing, Danielle.

1108
00:59:22,520 --> 00:59:27,320
Speaker 1: They just want to live in stars Hollow at a farm.

1109
00:59:27,520 --> 00:59:31,000
Speaker 1: He just want a little bit of peace. And that's right.

1110
00:59:32,480 --> 00:59:34,800
Speaker 1: Actually thought of you multiple times watching this movie. I

1111
00:59:34,840 --> 00:59:36,959
Speaker 1: was like, oh, yeah, it's like the farm that Danielle has.

1112
00:59:37,160 --> 00:59:43,120
Speaker 5: Oh good, although I'm an animalist farm right now, no

1113
00:59:43,200 --> 00:59:47,120
Speaker 5: animal Yeah, well but listen, I like there's something very

1114
00:59:47,160 --> 00:59:49,800
Speaker 5: attractive about that obviously, and I've told I've talked to

1115
00:59:49,840 --> 00:59:51,720
Speaker 5: you about that when I was at your farm.

1116
00:59:51,840 --> 00:59:52,479
Speaker 2: Oh hell yeah.

1117
00:59:52,600 --> 00:59:54,720
Speaker 1: Yeah. Even the context of this movie, I'm like, yeah,

1118
00:59:54,840 --> 00:59:58,000
Speaker 1: I mean, man, it's so cozy in there. They got

1119
00:59:58,040 --> 01:00:01,600
Speaker 1: like the copper pots hanging off the wall at the fireplace, and.

1120
01:00:01,480 --> 01:00:03,400
Speaker 2: I keep telling you got you got to move north.

1121
01:00:03,840 --> 01:00:06,960
Speaker 2: I know New York, Canada mains something. I feel like

1122
01:00:07,000 --> 01:00:08,040
Speaker 2: your place is north.

1123
01:00:08,560 --> 01:00:10,880
Speaker 1: I know I need like the dark wood and the

1124
01:00:10,960 --> 01:00:14,160
Speaker 1: quilts and the rum, the hot rum in those like

1125
01:00:15,160 --> 01:00:19,080
Speaker 1: what do you call them, the like per Steyn's things. Yeah, man,

1126
01:00:19,400 --> 01:00:22,080
Speaker 1: it's so cozy. But you know, I think it's also

1127
01:00:22,200 --> 01:00:25,200
Speaker 1: established pretty quickly in the in the beginning that you know, Ellen,

1128
01:00:25,680 --> 01:00:28,640
Speaker 1: the Heywood character, is kind of the one that's doing

1129
01:00:28,680 --> 01:00:32,320
Speaker 1: all the physical labor, right, Like she's out there chopping

1130
01:00:32,400 --> 01:00:36,400
Speaker 1: wood and feeding the chickens and fixing the fences, and

1131
01:00:36,560 --> 01:00:39,800
Speaker 1: you know her kind of personality type. She's very stoic,

1132
01:00:39,960 --> 01:00:42,760
Speaker 1: she's contemplative, she's not you know, kind of like she's

1133
01:00:42,840 --> 01:00:45,240
Speaker 1: kind of in her own mind a lot of times.

1134
01:00:45,880 --> 01:00:49,680
Speaker 1: And Jill, on the other hand, is like more of

1135
01:00:49,720 --> 01:00:52,960
Speaker 1: the homemaker. She you know, cooks all the meals and

1136
01:00:53,000 --> 01:00:56,280
Speaker 1: she claims and she's kind of the opposite personality, right,

1137
01:00:56,280 --> 01:01:00,600
Speaker 1: She's got this kind of neurotic chatterbox yb to her

1138
01:01:00,960 --> 01:01:03,600
Speaker 1: sort of a kind of nervous energy if you will,

1139
01:01:04,680 --> 01:01:08,080
Speaker 1: if you remember Who's afraid of Virginia Woolf, You'll understand

1140
01:01:08,160 --> 01:01:11,720
Speaker 1: what I'm talking about, right, And there's also kind of

1141
01:01:11,800 --> 01:01:14,960
Speaker 1: sense that there's something between them. It's kind of strained, right,

1142
01:01:15,080 --> 01:01:18,560
Speaker 1: like besides the fact that they have like way different personalities.

1143
01:01:18,600 --> 01:01:21,080
Speaker 1: But you know, Jill is sort of nagging to Ellen

1144
01:01:21,200 --> 01:01:25,560
Speaker 1: that you know, she's why she being so distant, and

1145
01:01:25,640 --> 01:01:28,400
Speaker 1: you know, I feel like I'm intruding on your piece,

1146
01:01:28,760 --> 01:01:32,000
Speaker 1: and Ellen is like, I'm not going to say it,

1147
01:01:32,040 --> 01:01:34,960
Speaker 1: but I'm you know, yeah, maybe you are a little bit.

1148
01:01:35,040 --> 01:01:38,440
Speaker 1: And really it comes from this resentfulness that I feel

1149
01:01:38,480 --> 01:01:41,360
Speaker 1: that I'm chopping all this fucking wood for you and

1150
01:01:41,440 --> 01:01:42,720
Speaker 1: I'm doing all the chores.

1151
01:01:43,520 --> 01:01:47,080
Speaker 2: There's an imbalanced labor system happening here.

1152
01:01:46,600 --> 01:01:51,120
Speaker 1: Definitely, But also Ellen too, I think she's kind of

1153
01:01:51,200 --> 01:01:55,840
Speaker 1: in this frame of mind. Maybe there's like early scenes

1154
01:01:55,840 --> 01:01:59,280
Speaker 1: of this where Ellen is kind of like contemplating maybe

1155
01:01:59,400 --> 01:02:02,440
Speaker 1: she's got some physical needs that aren't being met in

1156
01:02:02,440 --> 01:02:04,400
Speaker 1: the way that she wants them to be met. Like

1157
01:02:04,440 --> 01:02:06,680
Speaker 1: she's kind of looking at herself in the mirror naked,

1158
01:02:06,720 --> 01:02:10,640
Speaker 1: and she's like, you know, I'm feeling myself like I

1159
01:02:10,760 --> 01:02:13,960
Speaker 1: want to express myself sexually, and I feel like I'm

1160
01:02:14,000 --> 01:02:15,880
Speaker 1: not able to do that right now. Maybe what would

1161
01:02:15,920 --> 01:02:17,480
Speaker 1: it be like to have sex with other people?

1162
01:02:17,600 --> 01:02:18,120
Speaker 2: Who knows?

1163
01:02:18,280 --> 01:02:21,880
Speaker 1: At the same time, the part of what gets established

1164
01:02:21,880 --> 01:02:24,240
Speaker 1: at the beginning that becomes a metaphor for the rest

1165
01:02:24,280 --> 01:02:26,520
Speaker 1: of the film is that there's this fox that's been

1166
01:02:26,560 --> 01:02:29,560
Speaker 1: coming by the farm who's like praying on the chickens.

1167
01:02:30,000 --> 01:02:32,880
Speaker 1: And you know, of course, because it's Ellen's job, she's

1168
01:02:32,920 --> 01:02:35,800
Speaker 1: supposed to go out there and shoot this fox and

1169
01:02:36,440 --> 01:02:39,360
Speaker 1: can't do it for some reason. You know, it's basically

1170
01:02:39,400 --> 01:02:44,320
Speaker 1: this nagging problem that they're having on this farm. Okay,

1171
01:02:45,000 --> 01:02:47,400
Speaker 1: and I will say too, if you want to watch

1172
01:02:47,440 --> 01:02:51,000
Speaker 1: this movie, there's a lot of animal violence in it,

1173
01:02:52,080 --> 01:02:57,280
Speaker 1: which comes primarily from like a survivalist kind of perspective.

1174
01:02:57,720 --> 01:03:01,240
Speaker 1: So it's not like abuse necessarily. So if that's the

1175
01:03:01,320 --> 01:03:04,600
Speaker 1: kind of thing that bothers, you just prepare yourself for that.

1176
01:03:05,120 --> 01:03:09,400
Speaker 1: It's people living on a farm. It's the realities, right absolutely,

1177
01:03:10,560 --> 01:03:17,720
Speaker 1: So one day, okay, you got a stranger that comes

1178
01:03:17,720 --> 01:03:19,840
Speaker 1: to the door. Now, this scared the shit out of

1179
01:03:19,880 --> 01:03:21,640
Speaker 1: me the first time I saw it. I was like,

1180
01:03:21,640 --> 01:03:24,000
Speaker 1: like when they were. They were afraid it was the fox.

1181
01:03:24,040 --> 01:03:26,480
Speaker 1: But then when it was like walking by the doorway,

1182
01:03:26,480 --> 01:03:28,400
Speaker 1: I was like, is it a fucking bear? Like what

1183
01:03:28,640 --> 01:03:29,200
Speaker 1: is out there?

1184
01:03:31,000 --> 01:03:32,880
Speaker 2: Yeah? I was. I was not ready for it to

1185
01:03:32,880 --> 01:03:33,680
Speaker 2: be a human man.

1186
01:03:34,240 --> 01:03:38,080
Speaker 1: Yeah, it was a human man who walks in and

1187
01:03:38,120 --> 01:03:40,400
Speaker 1: he's like just off the boat. He's got his like

1188
01:03:40,440 --> 01:03:44,640
Speaker 1: little sailor bag. He's like, you know, little I call

1189
01:03:44,720 --> 01:03:48,440
Speaker 1: it like Jack Nicholson in the Last Detail Hat that

1190
01:03:48,600 --> 01:03:54,640
Speaker 1: like little little nightcap. Yeah, that nit cap. And it

1191
01:03:54,800 --> 01:03:59,600
Speaker 1: is the actor Kierre Doulay, who we've talked about both

1192
01:04:00,320 --> 01:04:03,640
Speaker 1: on episodes about David and Lisa, but also Black Christmas.

1193
01:04:03,720 --> 01:04:08,120
Speaker 1: Remember he was Olivia Hussey's asshole boyfriend in Black Christmas.

1194
01:04:08,880 --> 01:04:13,640
Speaker 1: And guess what, he's a total asshole in this movie.

1195
01:04:14,080 --> 01:04:15,640
Speaker 2: He's a freak in this movie.

1196
01:04:15,720 --> 01:04:22,480
Speaker 1: An absolute freak. Like this guy comes by and he's like, Hey,

1197
01:04:22,560 --> 01:04:25,000
Speaker 1: what are y'all doing here? This is my grandpa's farm,

1198
01:04:25,040 --> 01:04:26,640
Speaker 1: And they're like, your grandfather died.

1199
01:04:28,360 --> 01:04:29,320
Speaker 2: I don't know where you've been.

1200
01:04:29,800 --> 01:04:34,080
Speaker 1: Yeah, he was like he died. He literally was like

1201
01:04:34,120 --> 01:04:35,000
Speaker 1: I didn't know he died.

1202
01:04:35,240 --> 01:04:36,080
Speaker 2: We weren't clothes.

1203
01:04:37,520 --> 01:04:39,960
Speaker 1: Yeah, So basically he's like, oh, I thought my grandpa

1204
01:04:40,040 --> 01:04:44,640
Speaker 1: lived here. I guess he doesn't, but hey, I'm looking around. Hey,

1205
01:04:44,840 --> 01:04:47,920
Speaker 1: you two ladies trying to tend to this farm. Huh,

1206
01:04:48,080 --> 01:04:50,240
Speaker 1: looks like you need a man around here to help

1207
01:04:50,280 --> 01:04:54,840
Speaker 1: you out. Noticing that leaky fucking pipe and the wood

1208
01:04:54,880 --> 01:04:59,880
Speaker 1: that's not being this so already he comes in way

1209
01:05:00,440 --> 01:05:04,400
Speaker 1: with like the offer to be the man of the house.

1210
01:05:04,640 --> 01:05:06,960
Speaker 2: Now you know why when men come here to deliver

1211
01:05:07,080 --> 01:05:09,080
Speaker 2: things or work on my house, I have to put

1212
01:05:09,080 --> 01:05:11,360
Speaker 2: on the bitch real quick, because there you start making

1213
01:05:11,400 --> 01:05:13,880
Speaker 2: plans for man caves and all kinds of shit.

1214
01:05:14,400 --> 01:05:17,720
Speaker 1: Dude, I thought of you one thousand percent.

1215
01:05:20,080 --> 01:05:24,440
Speaker 2: And this is why I'm like, don't get any ideas.

1216
01:05:25,080 --> 01:05:29,080
Speaker 1: Yeah, Like it is like the first thing that he

1217
01:05:29,480 --> 01:05:32,720
Speaker 1: comes in with is basically like, hey, yeah, I'll come

1218
01:05:32,720 --> 01:05:34,600
Speaker 1: in here and fix all the shit and be the

1219
01:05:34,680 --> 01:05:37,560
Speaker 1: dude because you're not doing a good job. Which here's

1220
01:05:37,600 --> 01:05:41,840
Speaker 1: the thing they say to him, like, look, dude, we're

1221
01:05:41,880 --> 01:05:45,280
Speaker 1: going at our own pace here. Okay, we're trying this

1222
01:05:45,360 --> 01:05:49,080
Speaker 1: new kind of life for us, and I'm sorry if

1223
01:05:49,080 --> 01:05:54,440
Speaker 1: it doesn't meet up to your fucking bullshit patriarchal views

1224
01:05:54,480 --> 01:05:58,080
Speaker 1: of how things should be run. But like, I resent

1225
01:05:58,160 --> 01:06:00,960
Speaker 1: the fuck out of that, especially El, who was like, Yo,

1226
01:06:01,120 --> 01:06:04,520
Speaker 1: I'm actually doing this work, so stop annoying me with

1227
01:06:04,640 --> 01:06:10,160
Speaker 1: this stuff. And then, of course, like what happens. They

1228
01:06:10,160 --> 01:06:13,120
Speaker 1: sit around the fire and then Jill's like, why don't

1229
01:06:13,160 --> 01:06:16,720
Speaker 1: you stay stay with us for a while because you

1230
01:06:16,720 --> 01:06:18,400
Speaker 1: don't want to go back out with snow and we're

1231
01:06:18,440 --> 01:06:20,760
Speaker 1: certainly not giving you a ride back to town because

1232
01:06:20,800 --> 01:06:23,080
Speaker 1: the roads are icy, and he's like, oh you think

1233
01:06:23,120 --> 01:06:24,880
Speaker 1: so you think I should stay? Okay, cool, I'll stay.

1234
01:06:25,560 --> 01:06:27,880
Speaker 2: Yeah, Jill kick that door open too soon.

1235
01:06:28,000 --> 01:06:31,280
Speaker 1: Absolutely on hundred percent. And meanwhile, in this scene, I

1236
01:06:31,320 --> 01:06:33,760
Speaker 1: love how it's filmed because it's basically like a film

1237
01:06:33,760 --> 01:06:35,640
Speaker 1: in the wir where like it's just Ellen in the

1238
01:06:35,640 --> 01:06:39,439
Speaker 1: corner with her eyes been like, don't bring this man

1239
01:06:39,480 --> 01:06:42,080
Speaker 1: in here. I don't know what you're doing right now.

1240
01:06:42,280 --> 01:06:44,800
Speaker 2: Like first and foremost you don't help and the way

1241
01:06:44,800 --> 01:06:47,200
Speaker 2: that I need you to help here, Yes, so I'm

1242
01:06:47,200 --> 01:06:49,920
Speaker 2: already my hackles are up, and now you're inviting this

1243
01:06:50,000 --> 01:06:53,560
Speaker 2: dude into this fucking situation. Yes, m m.

1244
01:06:54,240 --> 01:06:56,720
Speaker 1: So this fucking guy spends the night and then now

1245
01:06:56,760 --> 01:07:00,680
Speaker 1: he's just here right because here's the thing. He is

1246
01:07:00,760 --> 01:07:04,760
Speaker 1: definitely preying upon each of their sort of insecurities about

1247
01:07:04,800 --> 01:07:07,200
Speaker 1: what's happening in this house, right, because you got Jill

1248
01:07:07,560 --> 01:07:10,400
Speaker 1: who is like, I have this partner who is kind

1249
01:07:10,440 --> 01:07:12,760
Speaker 1: of distant and cold, and she doesn't appreciate me, and

1250
01:07:12,760 --> 01:07:14,400
Speaker 1: she doesn't want to like, you know, do the little

1251
01:07:14,440 --> 01:07:17,280
Speaker 1: cute things like giggle together and like you know, and

1252
01:07:17,360 --> 01:07:21,280
Speaker 1: here's this guy who's like giving me some attention. At

1253
01:07:21,280 --> 01:07:24,360
Speaker 1: the same time, as we know now with Ellen, she's

1254
01:07:24,520 --> 01:07:27,640
Speaker 1: kind of like, I don't know, horny, I guess is

1255
01:07:27,760 --> 01:07:30,760
Speaker 1: the term to use. And here's this guy coming around

1256
01:07:30,800 --> 01:07:33,400
Speaker 1: being very intriguing, and it also calls in a question

1257
01:07:33,480 --> 01:07:36,640
Speaker 1: sort of like their relationship, like the way that Ellen

1258
01:07:36,720 --> 01:07:39,360
Speaker 1: and Jill had. You know, there's a lot of kind

1259
01:07:39,400 --> 01:07:44,520
Speaker 1: of open endedness about this particular relationship too in the film,

1260
01:07:44,800 --> 01:07:46,520
Speaker 1: which I think when I first saw it, I was

1261
01:07:46,600 --> 01:07:49,240
Speaker 1: kind of like, that's really weird, But now that I've

1262
01:07:49,280 --> 01:07:52,000
Speaker 1: seen it multiple times, I'm like, I kind of like

1263
01:07:52,080 --> 01:07:55,040
Speaker 1: that it's open ended. I to because it gives a

1264
01:07:55,080 --> 01:07:58,600
Speaker 1: lot of like room for interpretation.

1265
01:07:58,240 --> 01:08:00,480
Speaker 2: Completely, and it also keeps you guessing what's going to

1266
01:08:00,520 --> 01:08:04,400
Speaker 2: happen next or I don't know, there's something really organic

1267
01:08:04,440 --> 01:08:06,320
Speaker 2: and natural about the way it develops that kind of

1268
01:08:06,400 --> 01:08:09,280
Speaker 2: keeps you on your toes, and yeah, I kind of

1269
01:08:09,320 --> 01:08:11,439
Speaker 2: appreciate it. And then I'll just say that.

1270
01:08:11,720 --> 01:08:15,640
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm with you. I feel like to have to

1271
01:08:15,760 --> 01:08:21,120
Speaker 1: find it absolutely was maybe like in this day and age,

1272
01:08:21,160 --> 01:08:24,040
Speaker 1: a better choice because it's more complicated, I think than

1273
01:08:24,080 --> 01:08:27,000
Speaker 1: it was in nineteen sixty seven. I'll just say that, Yeah.

1274
01:08:27,040 --> 01:08:29,080
Speaker 1: But the thing is is that so he's coming around,

1275
01:08:29,160 --> 01:08:32,240
Speaker 1: he's doing all the work. He like you know, basically

1276
01:08:32,680 --> 01:08:35,679
Speaker 1: is bringing in some food for them that he's hunted

1277
01:08:35,720 --> 01:08:39,439
Speaker 1: and killed, and he's like, you know, making, he's chopping logs,

1278
01:08:39,439 --> 01:08:41,439
Speaker 1: and so there's this moment where they're like, you know what,

1279
01:08:42,160 --> 01:08:44,760
Speaker 1: we've been working really hard at trying to exist here,

1280
01:08:44,800 --> 01:08:46,880
Speaker 1: and it's like such a relief sometimes to just have

1281
01:08:46,960 --> 01:08:49,679
Speaker 1: somebody come in and like help out. Like they can't

1282
01:08:49,680 --> 01:08:54,840
Speaker 1: deny that. But it gets really keyed up because here's

1283
01:08:54,840 --> 01:08:58,120
Speaker 1: the thing here. Dew Lay's character right off the bat

1284
01:08:58,240 --> 01:09:03,240
Speaker 1: comes in creepy, you know, he's mansplaining, offering his expertise,

1285
01:09:04,240 --> 01:09:09,840
Speaker 1: but then at a certain point he cannot repress his

1286
01:09:10,800 --> 01:09:14,320
Speaker 1: desire for Ellen, who he's been like, you know, they've

1287
01:09:14,360 --> 01:09:17,200
Speaker 1: been doing a little weird kind of like intrigue dance

1288
01:09:17,800 --> 01:09:19,920
Speaker 1: like in the barn and kind of as they're doing

1289
01:09:20,040 --> 01:09:22,839
Speaker 1: the work around the farm, and one day he literally

1290
01:09:22,920 --> 01:09:25,280
Speaker 1: just like confronts her in the barn and says, I

1291
01:09:25,320 --> 01:09:27,919
Speaker 1: want to marry you. I won't take no for an answer.

1292
01:09:28,680 --> 01:09:30,040
Speaker 1: You know you want to marry me too.

1293
01:09:30,280 --> 01:09:31,559
Speaker 2: I mean, what a swing.

1294
01:09:32,320 --> 01:09:37,400
Speaker 1: I mean it is possibly the least romantic marriage proposal

1295
01:09:37,439 --> 01:09:43,200
Speaker 1: you'll ever see on film, completely, like he's basically verbally

1296
01:09:43,320 --> 01:09:46,160
Speaker 1: clubbing a woman over the head to be like, drag

1297
01:09:46,240 --> 01:09:51,280
Speaker 1: you back to my cave. Like it's really intense. And

1298
01:09:51,320 --> 01:09:55,519
Speaker 1: she's like what what why would you think that? I know?

1299
01:09:56,040 --> 01:09:58,639
Speaker 1: But he's like, no, you're marrying me. You know, I'm

1300
01:09:58,640 --> 01:10:00,479
Speaker 1: going back to the ship for a little but when

1301
01:10:00,479 --> 01:10:02,800
Speaker 1: I come back, I'm taking you away. And she's just like,

1302
01:10:03,479 --> 01:10:06,160
Speaker 1: how dare you? Like, but at the same time, what

1303
01:10:06,200 --> 01:10:06,720
Speaker 1: would that be?

1304
01:10:06,920 --> 01:10:07,000
Speaker 4: Like?

1305
01:10:07,560 --> 01:10:12,000
Speaker 1: You know, I'm curious. Yes, So then you know this

1306
01:10:12,080 --> 01:10:16,120
Speaker 1: is happening. Jill finds out or figures out that there's

1307
01:10:16,160 --> 01:10:20,920
Speaker 1: been a marriage proposal, and she freaks out naturally, right

1308
01:10:21,040 --> 01:10:25,040
Speaker 1: because suddenly this man has come into their house. You know,

1309
01:10:25,280 --> 01:10:27,559
Speaker 1: he's want to help the little ladies with all the

1310
01:10:27,760 --> 01:10:30,840
Speaker 1: hard labor on the farm, and now he's forcing one

1311
01:10:30,880 --> 01:10:31,840
Speaker 1: of them to marry him.

1312
01:10:32,560 --> 01:10:35,280
Speaker 2: But she also is kind of willing, like she's willing,

1313
01:10:35,360 --> 01:10:39,600
Speaker 2: but he's just disrupted the dynamics so much, right that

1314
01:10:39,680 --> 01:10:42,439
Speaker 2: he's basically effectively split them apart while they're still in

1315
01:10:42,479 --> 01:10:43,040
Speaker 2: the same house.

1316
01:10:43,400 --> 01:10:48,479
Speaker 1: Right, And and there's a moment where Ellen says to him, Look,

1317
01:10:48,760 --> 01:10:51,200
Speaker 1: even if I even wanted to like in this like

1318
01:10:51,800 --> 01:10:56,439
Speaker 1: very profound way, even if I was completely down for this,

1319
01:10:57,320 --> 01:10:59,439
Speaker 1: there's the issue that I've been in this relationship with

1320
01:10:59,479 --> 01:11:02,800
Speaker 1: this woman for as her she depends on me. We

1321
01:11:02,840 --> 01:11:05,000
Speaker 1: look out for each other. We've created a home here

1322
01:11:05,280 --> 01:11:08,519
Speaker 1: and that means something. And you can't just like swing

1323
01:11:08,560 --> 01:11:11,400
Speaker 1: your big dick around and fucking ruin all of it, right,

1324
01:11:11,960 --> 01:11:14,480
Speaker 1: And I think I don't have to point this out.

1325
01:11:14,720 --> 01:11:19,400
Speaker 1: The fox metaphor right right, you got a fox that's

1326
01:11:19,560 --> 01:11:23,760
Speaker 1: fucking around trying to disrupt everything that's happening on the farm.

1327
01:11:23,920 --> 01:11:25,160
Speaker 2: Is a fox in the henhouse?

1328
01:11:25,600 --> 01:11:28,240
Speaker 1: Yeah, fox in the henhouse. Also, it helps that kier

1329
01:11:28,360 --> 01:11:32,920
Speaker 1: dou Lay's eyes look like a fox's eyes. I was like,

1330
01:11:33,160 --> 01:11:37,000
Speaker 1: they picked the right guy for this completely. He's got

1331
01:11:37,040 --> 01:11:41,080
Speaker 1: a creepy, creepy eyes. Sorry, sir, He always has in

1332
01:11:41,120 --> 01:11:41,639
Speaker 1: every movie.

1333
01:11:41,640 --> 01:11:44,400
Speaker 2: We talked about those eyes betray everything.

1334
01:11:44,760 --> 01:11:48,880
Speaker 1: So obviously I'm not gonna spoil the rest of the film. Sorry,

1335
01:11:48,920 --> 01:11:51,439
Speaker 1: I'm not gonna do that because it has this very

1336
01:11:51,479 --> 01:11:55,920
Speaker 1: interesting ending, which is also very open ended, right yep.

1337
01:11:56,240 --> 01:12:01,439
Speaker 1: But generally I think that this film is as good

1338
01:12:01,479 --> 01:12:04,360
Speaker 1: as it is because of the two women. I think

1339
01:12:04,400 --> 01:12:08,679
Speaker 1: Anne Haywood in this film is fantastic, Like she's really

1340
01:12:09,360 --> 01:12:13,080
Speaker 1: like she communicates a lot about her kind of interior life,

1341
01:12:13,880 --> 01:12:16,720
Speaker 1: you know, and that's her being a good actress. And

1342
01:12:17,400 --> 01:12:21,040
Speaker 1: Sandy Dennis is fantastic. I've been thinking about this movie

1343
01:12:21,040 --> 01:12:24,479
Speaker 1: ever since I saw it like twenty years ago. It's

1344
01:12:24,479 --> 01:12:28,080
Speaker 1: a shame that it's not as available as it should be. Like,

1345
01:12:28,120 --> 01:12:30,800
Speaker 1: I feel like this movie would be like an incredible,

1346
01:12:31,680 --> 01:12:35,880
Speaker 1: you know, restoration. It needs to be restored. It needs

1347
01:12:35,880 --> 01:12:38,240
Speaker 1: that four K treatment. Maybe we can get like Criterion

1348
01:12:38,320 --> 01:12:42,120
Speaker 1: Collection or somebody to do something nice. But yeah, I

1349
01:12:42,280 --> 01:12:44,200
Speaker 1: just this was something that I've been wanting to do

1350
01:12:44,240 --> 01:12:46,760
Speaker 1: on the podcast, and I'm so glad that we finally

1351
01:12:46,840 --> 01:12:47,360
Speaker 1: got to do it.

1352
01:12:47,400 --> 01:12:49,080
Speaker 2: I'm so glad you chose it. I think it fits

1353
01:12:49,120 --> 01:12:52,240
Speaker 2: well for the theme because these are clearly actresses who

1354
01:12:52,320 --> 01:12:56,679
Speaker 2: had careers where they've chosen interesting roles. Yeah, and Sandy

1355
01:12:56,720 --> 01:12:58,639
Speaker 2: Dennis in particular, I knew more about her than Anne

1356
01:12:58,640 --> 01:13:00,920
Speaker 2: Haywood going into this, but I think that, like you said,

1357
01:13:00,920 --> 01:13:04,679
Speaker 2: and hey, we did an absolutely incredible job. And it's

1358
01:13:04,760 --> 01:13:07,200
Speaker 2: just it's the movie will keep you on your toes,

1359
01:13:07,240 --> 01:13:09,320
Speaker 2: It'll keep you on your toes. And the end is

1360
01:13:09,360 --> 01:13:12,719
Speaker 2: really shocking, yeah to me because this is the person.

1361
01:13:12,760 --> 01:13:14,160
Speaker 2: I watched it and I was like, what, huh, I

1362
01:13:14,200 --> 01:13:17,160
Speaker 2: did not know what was gonna happen. Yeah, but it's

1363
01:13:17,200 --> 01:13:20,080
Speaker 2: also an interesting play on so as innovative as it is,

1364
01:13:20,080 --> 01:13:24,200
Speaker 2: it's an interesting play on something that is kind of common,

1365
01:13:24,280 --> 01:13:26,680
Speaker 2: which is the love triangle or the you know, the

1366
01:13:26,680 --> 01:13:29,920
Speaker 2: person being wooed away. Like it's just it's just great casting,

1367
01:13:30,200 --> 01:13:32,639
Speaker 2: great choice. I'm so glad we got to talk about it.

1368
01:13:32,800 --> 01:13:36,040
Speaker 1: Yeah, oh definitely. And it's and on top of that,

1369
01:13:36,400 --> 01:13:39,960
Speaker 1: it's like and Haywood is is like an ellll Bean

1370
01:13:40,080 --> 01:13:45,479
Speaker 1: fantasy wardrobe at every moment. Sandy Dennis is like I was, like,

1371
01:13:45,520 --> 01:13:51,479
Speaker 1: she's wearing Danielle's cardigans. Like it's like fashion wise, it's

1372
01:13:51,520 --> 01:13:55,920
Speaker 1: a fantastic film. Cozy is all get out. It's wonderfully

1373
01:13:56,120 --> 01:13:59,519
Speaker 1: shot and like, yeah, a lot of like interesting themes

1374
01:13:59,520 --> 01:14:04,120
Speaker 1: about relationships, about you know, kind of the presence of

1375
01:14:04,160 --> 01:14:08,120
Speaker 1: a man in this like female space and what that means.

1376
01:14:08,200 --> 01:14:10,160
Speaker 1: And it's like I don't know, I just I'm glad

1377
01:14:10,200 --> 01:14:13,439
Speaker 1: we got to hit it. And that is my movie

1378
01:14:13,479 --> 01:14:14,080
Speaker 1: for this week.

1379
01:14:14,280 --> 01:14:16,040
Speaker 2: It's wonderful, wonderful.

1380
01:14:21,320 --> 01:14:25,040
Speaker 1: So do you want to start it on your film?

1381
01:14:25,680 --> 01:14:26,440
Speaker 2: Oh?

1382
01:14:26,520 --> 01:14:27,000
Speaker 1: Boy?

1383
01:14:27,040 --> 01:14:31,599
Speaker 2: Do I so? My film was released in two thousand

1384
01:14:31,600 --> 01:14:35,719
Speaker 2: and two. It was written by Aaron Cressita Wilson, based

1385
01:14:35,760 --> 01:14:38,720
Speaker 2: on a short story by Mary Gates Gill, directed by

1386
01:14:38,720 --> 01:14:42,560
Speaker 2: Stephen Shaneberg. My movie is Secretary.

1387
01:14:43,000 --> 01:14:46,519
Speaker 4: I've never had a job before, but I can assure

1388
01:14:46,560 --> 01:14:49,840
Speaker 4: you that I am very excited about this opportunity.

1389
01:14:50,280 --> 01:14:53,640
Speaker 1: Are you the lawyer? I have a huge question, but

1390
01:14:53,680 --> 01:14:55,519
Speaker 1: I don't know if I should ask it now or

1391
01:14:55,600 --> 01:15:00,280
Speaker 1: later go for it? Did Fifty Shades of Gray fucking

1392
01:15:00,400 --> 01:15:01,880
Speaker 1: steal everything from this movie?

1393
01:15:02,160 --> 01:15:02,200
Speaker 5: What?

1394
01:15:04,040 --> 01:15:08,720
Speaker 2: Interestingly, when I was looking up places to stream and

1395
01:15:08,760 --> 01:15:12,960
Speaker 2: watch this film, almost every single descriptor on every single

1396
01:15:13,000 --> 01:15:16,599
Speaker 2: streaming service that it's on calls one of the main

1397
01:15:16,680 --> 01:15:20,960
Speaker 2: characters the original mister Gray and actually references Fifty Shades.

1398
01:15:21,360 --> 01:15:23,720
Speaker 1: His name is mister Gray, Am I wrong about that?

1399
01:15:24,200 --> 01:15:27,519
Speaker 2: You're not wrong about that. I can't imagine how there

1400
01:15:27,720 --> 01:15:33,240
Speaker 2: wasn't a Mary gateskill court case. But if I were her,

1401
01:15:34,479 --> 01:15:36,559
Speaker 2: I think some of the similarities are a little bit

1402
01:15:36,600 --> 01:15:39,400
Speaker 2: too intense to not say that this could have been

1403
01:15:39,920 --> 01:15:45,479
Speaker 2: a direct ripoff and a slight, slightly different interpretation. Oh yeah,

1404
01:15:45,520 --> 01:15:48,000
Speaker 2: because I think well, from what I understand fifty Shades

1405
01:15:48,000 --> 01:15:55,080
Speaker 2: of Gray, the books were fan fiction for Twilight. Okay,

1406
01:15:55,200 --> 01:15:58,080
Speaker 2: that sounds right, So it's possible the person who wrote

1407
01:15:58,080 --> 01:16:01,840
Speaker 2: those books wasn't even aware that this movie existed. But

1408
01:16:01,880 --> 01:16:03,840
Speaker 2: I don't know how that's possible with even just a

1409
01:16:03,880 --> 01:16:06,759
Speaker 2: little bit of research, Like somebody in that camp should

1410
01:16:06,760 --> 01:16:09,000
Speaker 2: have been like, oh no, we got to at least

1411
01:16:09,080 --> 01:16:10,280
Speaker 2: change some names or something.

1412
01:16:10,960 --> 01:16:14,400
Speaker 1: Yeah, listen, if Hollywood, if you need a consultant for

1413
01:16:14,439 --> 01:16:17,240
Speaker 1: that type of thing, why don't you call us, hire us.

1414
01:16:17,320 --> 01:16:19,240
Speaker 1: We'll tell you that there's a movie that was made

1415
01:16:19,240 --> 01:16:22,080
Speaker 1: way before that that has pretty much everything that you're

1416
01:16:22,120 --> 01:16:23,000
Speaker 1: about to do in.

1417
01:16:22,920 --> 01:16:28,000
Speaker 2: It directly based on everything. I'm truly shocked that nobody

1418
01:16:28,000 --> 01:16:28,880
Speaker 2: caught that along the way.

1419
01:16:29,040 --> 01:16:31,360
Speaker 1: Yes, I was totally shocked because I had, First of all,

1420
01:16:31,360 --> 01:16:33,080
Speaker 1: I've been that senior movie since it came out, and

1421
01:16:33,120 --> 01:16:35,200
Speaker 1: I'm so happy I got to see it again. But

1422
01:16:35,720 --> 01:16:38,439
Speaker 1: I had seen all of the fifty shades of gray movies.

1423
01:16:38,479 --> 01:16:42,880
Speaker 1: Don't ask me why, I just have okay, And I

1424
01:16:43,040 --> 01:16:45,240
Speaker 1: just kept thinking about the entire film. I was like,

1425
01:16:45,479 --> 01:16:49,519
Speaker 1: there's no way this is too similar. But you know

1426
01:16:49,560 --> 01:16:51,400
Speaker 1: what I just had to ask. I had to ask you.

1427
01:16:51,560 --> 01:16:54,479
Speaker 2: In my opinion, it is a little too close for comfort.

1428
01:16:54,840 --> 01:16:58,120
Speaker 1: Yes, I bet, I bet so.

1429
01:16:58,280 --> 01:17:01,000
Speaker 2: I'm not sure beyond that, but it's a little Gigglow's

1430
01:17:01,000 --> 01:17:04,000
Speaker 2: work convert. I agree, especially since so my movie, which

1431
01:17:04,040 --> 01:17:05,840
Speaker 2: I also forgot to I just didn't write one sentence

1432
01:17:05,880 --> 01:17:10,280
Speaker 2: synopsis this week, but I'll try. On the fly of

1433
01:17:10,960 --> 01:17:17,160
Speaker 2: a woman freshly released from an institutional arrangement gets hired

1434
01:17:17,520 --> 01:17:22,080
Speaker 2: for a job that she is wildly underqualified for, but

1435
01:17:22,160 --> 01:17:26,880
Speaker 2: it becomes the central focus of her evolution as a woman.

1436
01:17:27,120 --> 01:17:30,320
Speaker 1: Man, that's incredible. That's perfect.

1437
01:17:31,640 --> 01:17:34,479
Speaker 2: I'm like reaching, I'm reaching real deep back in there.

1438
01:17:34,680 --> 01:17:35,799
Speaker 1: You did a great job.

1439
01:17:36,120 --> 01:17:39,559
Speaker 2: Shit, Oh my god. I've also not seen this movie

1440
01:17:39,560 --> 01:17:43,880
Speaker 2: since it came out. Yeah, and was really surprised by

1441
01:17:44,000 --> 01:17:46,280
Speaker 2: my reaction to it this time, because I think we

1442
01:17:46,320 --> 01:17:47,599
Speaker 2: have talked about this a little bit at the top

1443
01:17:47,640 --> 01:17:51,519
Speaker 2: of the show, but everywhere that I looked again to

1444
01:17:51,560 --> 01:17:54,240
Speaker 2: find like where this movie was streaming. And I've read

1445
01:17:54,240 --> 01:17:57,160
Speaker 2: some commentary and you know, some some reviews, and a

1446
01:17:57,200 --> 01:17:59,760
Speaker 2: lot of people refer to it as a comedy, and

1447
01:17:59,800 --> 01:18:02,320
Speaker 2: I I think there are funny moments in here, for sure,

1448
01:18:02,360 --> 01:18:05,920
Speaker 2: but I would never have posited it as a comedy

1449
01:18:06,040 --> 01:18:06,680
Speaker 2: straight up.

1450
01:18:07,080 --> 01:18:10,920
Speaker 1: No, actually wouldn't say that at all. I mean, it's quirky.

1451
01:18:11,120 --> 01:18:13,479
Speaker 1: I don't know if that's what people are trying to like,

1452
01:18:14,000 --> 01:18:16,680
Speaker 1: maybe they're getting that confused. I mean, there's definitely like

1453
01:18:17,240 --> 01:18:20,280
Speaker 1: quirky moments, but I don't think it has I don't

1454
01:18:20,280 --> 01:18:23,120
Speaker 1: think it's funny. I think it's just part of the style.

1455
01:18:23,880 --> 01:18:26,759
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think so too. And again, like the character development,

1456
01:18:26,800 --> 01:18:28,680
Speaker 2: there's some character moments that are really funny, but not

1457
01:18:29,240 --> 01:18:31,720
Speaker 2: the story overall is not a funny one to me.

1458
01:18:32,320 --> 01:18:35,280
Speaker 2: And it starts out, you know, we're kind of starting

1459
01:18:35,280 --> 01:18:39,920
Speaker 2: at a present day scenario where you've got our main cast,

1460
01:18:40,000 --> 01:18:43,320
Speaker 2: which is wonderful. The cast is wonderful, but this is

1461
01:18:43,400 --> 01:18:46,599
Speaker 2: kind of Maggie Jillen Hall's breakout role. And I think

1462
01:18:46,600 --> 01:18:48,439
Speaker 2: the reason I chose this film for our theme is

1463
01:18:48,439 --> 01:18:53,320
Speaker 2: that she is, to me someone who consistently chooses incredibly

1464
01:18:53,360 --> 01:18:57,360
Speaker 2: interesting roles, and her career has run the gamut from

1465
01:18:57,400 --> 01:19:02,960
Speaker 2: like big blockbuster films to small comedies to indie darling

1466
01:19:03,080 --> 01:19:04,840
Speaker 2: kind of movies, Like I think for a while she

1467
01:19:04,960 --> 01:19:07,160
Speaker 2: was really I would have considered her an indie Darling,

1468
01:19:07,200 --> 01:19:09,280
Speaker 2: even though like not at the same level as like

1469
01:19:09,280 --> 01:19:12,639
Speaker 2: a Parker Posey, so to speak. But she definitely chose

1470
01:19:12,680 --> 01:19:15,719
Speaker 2: like a lot of interesting indie movies like Sherry Baby

1471
01:19:15,760 --> 01:19:18,960
Speaker 2: and Cecil b Demented, And she's just kind of had

1472
01:19:19,040 --> 01:19:23,679
Speaker 2: like a history in stage and screen of choosing interesting

1473
01:19:23,760 --> 01:19:27,320
Speaker 2: roles that feature complicated women totally. She started I don't

1474
01:19:27,320 --> 01:19:30,720
Speaker 2: know if anybody saw the TV show The Deuce, but

1475
01:19:30,800 --> 01:19:35,000
Speaker 2: she played an early, early, early like seventies sex worker

1476
01:19:35,000 --> 01:19:38,040
Speaker 2: who becomes a producer and again, like she's just making

1477
01:19:38,040 --> 01:19:41,840
Speaker 2: these really interesting turns. And this film in particular was

1478
01:19:41,840 --> 01:19:44,519
Speaker 2: again like her breakout role. So she'd had small roles

1479
01:19:44,560 --> 01:19:48,360
Speaker 2: prior to doing this movie because she's been acting for

1480
01:19:48,360 --> 01:19:51,440
Speaker 2: a very long time, but this was really the standout

1481
01:19:51,520 --> 01:19:54,240
Speaker 2: role for her that kind of made her a Hollywood

1482
01:19:54,760 --> 01:20:00,160
Speaker 2: name and a star. And it's also a very interesting movie.

1483
01:20:00,360 --> 01:20:05,920
Speaker 2: For kind of your first real starring role to do

1484
01:20:06,160 --> 01:20:10,599
Speaker 2: full frontal nudity. Yeah, agreed, Like, good for you, girl,

1485
01:20:10,600 --> 01:20:13,519
Speaker 2: Like that'd be again staunch women like she is making choices.

1486
01:20:13,640 --> 01:20:15,519
Speaker 2: She's like when I think of her, I think of

1487
01:20:15,560 --> 01:20:17,160
Speaker 2: someone who's like, I will do it for the art.

1488
01:20:17,640 --> 01:20:20,200
Speaker 2: Like with every decision she made, she's like, if it's artistic,

1489
01:20:20,280 --> 01:20:23,400
Speaker 2: I will do it for the art, for the story.

1490
01:20:23,760 --> 01:20:27,840
Speaker 1: I love her. I love her me too, like, and

1491
01:20:27,960 --> 01:20:31,439
Speaker 1: I am totally with you she. I think she makes

1492
01:20:31,520 --> 01:20:37,479
Speaker 1: intentionally interesting choices. It really was The Deuce when I

1493
01:20:37,479 --> 01:20:39,320
Speaker 1: saw her in The Deuce that I was like, man,

1494
01:20:39,800 --> 01:20:40,839
Speaker 1: she's great.

1495
01:20:41,280 --> 01:20:45,000
Speaker 2: I feel like she's also someone who makes interesting choices

1496
01:20:45,120 --> 01:20:48,120
Speaker 2: as she ages. Yes, you know, she did this movie

1497
01:20:48,160 --> 01:20:50,960
Speaker 2: The Lost Daughter and the Kindergarten Teacher, and she kind

1498
01:20:50,960 --> 01:20:53,519
Speaker 2: of just makes interesting choices that are fully in line

1499
01:20:53,560 --> 01:20:57,200
Speaker 2: with her own evolution as a person, so she's not

1500
01:20:57,240 --> 01:20:59,920
Speaker 2: still trying to be like the young Angenu like she's dead,

1501
01:21:01,040 --> 01:21:02,960
Speaker 2: makes these cool chores and I just love that. I

1502
01:21:03,040 --> 01:21:07,120
Speaker 2: love seeing that, And I feel like it's not really

1503
01:21:08,040 --> 01:21:11,080
Speaker 2: common for me to watch an actress and feel like

1504
01:21:11,280 --> 01:21:13,880
Speaker 2: I literally never know what they're gonna do next.

1505
01:21:14,040 --> 01:21:15,920
Speaker 1: Yeah. Absolutely, like, I don't know.

1506
01:21:15,920 --> 01:21:19,880
Speaker 2: If she's gonna do a Marvel movie or she's gonna

1507
01:21:19,920 --> 01:21:23,160
Speaker 2: do like she's already been in Batman. But I don't

1508
01:21:23,160 --> 01:21:24,639
Speaker 2: know if she's gonna do a Marvel movie. I don't

1509
01:21:24,640 --> 01:21:27,799
Speaker 2: know if she's gonna do a weird play that she's producing,

1510
01:21:27,960 --> 01:21:29,880
Speaker 2: like a one woman show. I don't you never know

1511
01:21:29,920 --> 01:21:31,439
Speaker 2: what she's gonna do next. And I love that she

1512
01:21:31,520 --> 01:21:33,479
Speaker 2: keeps us on our toes. I think that's a mark

1513
01:21:33,520 --> 01:21:37,559
Speaker 2: of like a truly creative and artistic person. Yes, agreed, agreed,

1514
01:21:37,920 --> 01:21:40,800
Speaker 2: And the rest of this cast I think really compliments

1515
01:21:40,960 --> 01:21:45,280
Speaker 2: her in this film. So you have Jeremy Davies Leslie

1516
01:21:45,320 --> 01:21:48,200
Speaker 2: and Warren plays her mom. Jeremy Davies plays like her

1517
01:21:48,320 --> 01:21:51,200
Speaker 2: kind of love interest Peter, and the star of the show,

1518
01:21:52,360 --> 01:21:57,519
Speaker 2: mister James Spader, Wow, playing mister Gray.

1519
01:21:57,560 --> 01:22:00,280
Speaker 1: Had you seen him? Because for me, when I saw

1520
01:22:00,280 --> 01:22:06,240
Speaker 1: this movie, it was literally like pretty and pink and

1521
01:22:06,280 --> 01:22:06,840
Speaker 1: then this.

1522
01:22:07,280 --> 01:22:09,240
Speaker 2: Yeah, I feel like I hadn't seen him for ages,

1523
01:22:09,280 --> 01:22:09,960
Speaker 2: and then it was me.

1524
01:22:09,960 --> 01:22:13,479
Speaker 1: Too, and I was like, holy shit, Like he kind

1525
01:22:13,520 --> 01:22:17,080
Speaker 1: of went from like like he played that kind of rich,

1526
01:22:17,479 --> 01:22:22,280
Speaker 1: villainous John Hughes villain like in the most perfect way,

1527
01:22:22,320 --> 01:22:25,680
Speaker 1: he's kind of the archetype right of that character, and

1528
01:22:25,720 --> 01:22:30,720
Speaker 1: then went from that to this guy and I kind

1529
01:22:30,720 --> 01:22:37,679
Speaker 1: of was like, is he like America's foremost current gentleman pervert,

1530
01:22:37,800 --> 01:22:40,720
Speaker 1: Like he's got that distinction.

1531
01:22:41,720 --> 01:22:44,960
Speaker 2: He really did at that point he did for sure. Yeah,

1532
01:22:45,000 --> 01:22:47,360
Speaker 2: for fucking short, And it was kind of again like

1533
01:22:47,400 --> 01:22:50,960
Speaker 2: not jarring, but very interesting to see him take on

1534
01:22:51,040 --> 01:22:53,200
Speaker 2: this kind of role where instead of being that douchey

1535
01:22:53,280 --> 01:22:57,920
Speaker 2: jockey bully asshole, he was a more reserved He plays

1536
01:22:57,960 --> 01:23:02,559
Speaker 2: this very reserved attorney who, as we learn, has a

1537
01:23:02,560 --> 01:23:05,799
Speaker 2: lot of predilections. So at the start of the film,

1538
01:23:05,960 --> 01:23:08,000
Speaker 2: like I think the look and the colors and the

1539
01:23:08,120 --> 01:23:11,519
Speaker 2: music and everything about the film really centers you from

1540
01:23:11,560 --> 01:23:14,360
Speaker 2: the first first scene. And the first scene is again

1541
01:23:14,400 --> 01:23:17,559
Speaker 2: like we're in present day and you're seeing Lee Holloway,

1542
01:23:17,720 --> 01:23:22,800
Speaker 2: the Maggie Jillenhall calendar. Excuse me now, Maggie Jillenhall character, which,

1543
01:23:22,920 --> 01:23:26,120
Speaker 2: by the way, her name is not Margaret jillen Hall.

1544
01:23:26,320 --> 01:23:30,439
Speaker 1: It's Mark Elite, who I didn't know that me either. Show.

1545
01:23:30,439 --> 01:23:31,960
Speaker 2: I looked it up for this show and I love

1546
01:23:31,960 --> 01:23:35,720
Speaker 2: it more to love Mark Elite. So you see marg

1547
01:23:35,760 --> 01:23:41,920
Speaker 2: Elite Chillenhall in a collar, very simple outfit with like,

1548
01:23:41,960 --> 01:23:45,120
Speaker 2: you know, white blouse, black skirt, a collar with like

1549
01:23:45,160 --> 01:23:48,479
Speaker 2: a bar across her back that is holding her hands

1550
01:23:48,479 --> 01:23:50,280
Speaker 2: that are handcuffed to the bar. And I'm sure there's

1551
01:23:50,280 --> 01:23:52,439
Speaker 2: an snem name for that that I'm just not aware of.

1552
01:23:53,760 --> 01:23:55,960
Speaker 2: And she's just going about her day in an office,

1553
01:23:56,120 --> 01:23:59,880
Speaker 2: just fucking picking up a phone and making coffee and

1554
01:24:00,080 --> 01:24:02,000
Speaker 2: grabbing a piece of paper and then she walks into

1555
01:24:02,040 --> 01:24:03,680
Speaker 2: the door and kicks the door shut, and you're like,

1556
01:24:03,760 --> 01:24:07,599
Speaker 2: what the fuck is this? What is happening? And then

1557
01:24:07,640 --> 01:24:11,920
Speaker 2: you go back six months earlier. So Lee Holloway has

1558
01:24:12,040 --> 01:24:15,920
Speaker 2: just been released from this institution, and we soon find

1559
01:24:16,000 --> 01:24:20,280
Speaker 2: out it's because she is a self harmer. So much

1560
01:24:20,320 --> 01:24:22,559
Speaker 2: like Millie's earlier disclaimer, I will give you a disclaimer

1561
01:24:22,560 --> 01:24:25,479
Speaker 2: for this film as well, that it involves cutting. So

1562
01:24:25,560 --> 01:24:27,960
Speaker 2: if that is all triggering, you don't want to watch.

1563
01:24:28,560 --> 01:24:31,760
Speaker 2: But she has been released. Like, so, she's been in

1564
01:24:31,760 --> 01:24:35,559
Speaker 2: this institution and she is released on her sister's wedding day.

1565
01:24:35,920 --> 01:24:37,920
Speaker 2: And her sister's played by Amy Locaine who we all

1566
01:24:37,960 --> 01:24:41,479
Speaker 2: know from Crybaby and other things. And her mom comes

1567
01:24:41,520 --> 01:24:43,080
Speaker 2: to get her and is like we love you so much.

1568
01:24:43,120 --> 01:24:44,920
Speaker 2: Now let's get to this fucking wedding. And you're like,

1569
01:24:44,960 --> 01:24:47,320
Speaker 2: this is weird, but let's go. And they're at her

1570
01:24:47,320 --> 01:24:49,639
Speaker 2: house or having a little party. You know, she's dancing

1571
01:24:49,680 --> 01:24:52,040
Speaker 2: like wild. She sees Peter again for the first time

1572
01:24:52,080 --> 01:24:54,719
Speaker 2: in a long time. And what we eventually learned about

1573
01:24:54,760 --> 01:24:58,360
Speaker 2: Lee is that she kind of has these little kits

1574
01:24:58,600 --> 01:25:02,000
Speaker 2: that she keeps for cutting, so you know, it has

1575
01:25:02,040 --> 01:25:04,840
Speaker 2: iodine and bandages and all of these things. And she's

1576
01:25:04,840 --> 01:25:06,960
Speaker 2: been doing this since the seventh grade, we find out,

1577
01:25:07,479 --> 01:25:09,200
Speaker 2: so it's kind of a lifelong thing. And then we

1578
01:25:09,240 --> 01:25:13,240
Speaker 2: eventually see her parents are fighting later that night, and

1579
01:25:13,280 --> 01:25:17,200
Speaker 2: they're like kind of screaming, and you know, they're violently fighting,

1580
01:25:17,800 --> 01:25:21,560
Speaker 2: and she makes tea. Lee makes a bunch of a

1581
01:25:21,600 --> 01:25:23,320
Speaker 2: cup of tea and just takes the kettle into her

1582
01:25:23,400 --> 01:25:25,680
Speaker 2: room and like singes inside of her thigh with it.

1583
01:25:26,280 --> 01:25:29,880
Speaker 2: So you can, in very short order see that her

1584
01:25:30,040 --> 01:25:33,479
Speaker 2: family problems have contributed to her kind of emotional distress.

1585
01:25:34,680 --> 01:25:37,679
Speaker 2: And she's, by the way, extraordinarily frumpy when she gets

1586
01:25:37,720 --> 01:25:40,799
Speaker 2: out of this school. I mean, it is like sloushy socks,

1587
01:25:41,080 --> 01:25:47,439
Speaker 2: long skirts, shapeless sweaters for rom bae, so she's trying

1588
01:25:47,479 --> 01:25:51,120
Speaker 2: to rebuild her life when we meet her, and she

1589
01:25:51,160 --> 01:25:54,240
Speaker 2: applies after taking this typing course at a community college

1590
01:25:54,439 --> 01:25:57,679
Speaker 2: where she realizes she's fucking awesome at it. She applies

1591
01:25:57,720 --> 01:26:00,960
Speaker 2: for this job in the classified ads, and she's kind

1592
01:26:00,960 --> 01:26:03,800
Speaker 2: of hemming and hawing about throwing out her kit. She

1593
01:26:03,800 --> 01:26:06,400
Speaker 2: doesn't actually do it, but she applies for this job

1594
01:26:06,560 --> 01:26:11,840
Speaker 2: with E. Edward Gray, and that is a funny scene

1595
01:26:11,840 --> 01:26:14,479
Speaker 2: where she goes into apply and like the previous secretary

1596
01:26:14,560 --> 01:26:16,320
Speaker 2: is crying and she's leaving and the office is a

1597
01:26:16,360 --> 01:26:21,400
Speaker 2: fucking mess, and he's asking her the weirdest questions, like

1598
01:26:21,560 --> 01:26:24,080
Speaker 2: he's like, are you pregnant? Do you want to become pregnant?

1599
01:26:24,080 --> 01:26:26,320
Speaker 2: Have you ever won an award? And you're like, you're

1600
01:26:26,320 --> 01:26:28,160
Speaker 2: an attorney, you should know the half of these questions

1601
01:26:28,200 --> 01:26:29,280
Speaker 2: were fully illegal.

1602
01:26:29,680 --> 01:26:33,160
Speaker 1: I know. I was like, uh, yikes, that doesn't.

1603
01:26:32,840 --> 01:26:37,280
Speaker 2: Fly now, mister Gray. But he's very reserved and kind

1604
01:26:37,280 --> 01:26:38,720
Speaker 2: of like, all right, I'll give you a chance. I

1605
01:26:38,760 --> 01:26:41,240
Speaker 2: see something in you. And she's never had a job before,

1606
01:26:41,280 --> 01:26:44,519
Speaker 2: so she doesn't see these major red flags. Yeah, and

1607
01:26:44,680 --> 01:26:46,560
Speaker 2: her mom is kind of hovering in her life. So

1608
01:26:46,680 --> 01:26:49,360
Speaker 2: her mom has locked up all the knives in the

1609
01:26:49,400 --> 01:26:51,960
Speaker 2: house and kind of waits outside for her to finish

1610
01:26:52,040 --> 01:26:57,160
Speaker 2: her entire workday, and you know, she's being coddled like people.

1611
01:26:57,640 --> 01:27:00,679
Speaker 2: Her family's very worried about her. Her dad is drinking

1612
01:27:00,760 --> 01:27:02,639
Speaker 2: again and kind of gets tossed out of the house.

1613
01:27:02,640 --> 01:27:04,519
Speaker 2: But she and her mom are kind of this unit.

1614
01:27:05,280 --> 01:27:09,840
Speaker 2: And she starts this job, and even though it escalates

1615
01:27:10,040 --> 01:27:14,479
Speaker 2: eventually to a wild astonishing degree, it starts out in

1616
01:27:14,520 --> 01:27:17,040
Speaker 2: the weirdest way possible where you're like, what is actually

1617
01:27:17,080 --> 01:27:19,240
Speaker 2: going to happen here? Where Edward Gray says, I threw

1618
01:27:19,280 --> 01:27:24,559
Speaker 2: out some notes accidentally, and Lee very enthusiastically crawls into

1619
01:27:24,600 --> 01:27:28,200
Speaker 2: the garbage bin outside to get the notes, and he

1620
01:27:28,360 --> 01:27:33,719
Speaker 2: is like popping a boner about it one hundred percent,

1621
01:27:34,560 --> 01:27:37,040
Speaker 2: and then he's like making her change mice traps around

1622
01:27:37,080 --> 01:27:40,280
Speaker 2: the office, and you're like, okay, I see what's up.

1623
01:27:42,600 --> 01:27:44,880
Speaker 2: But he is like pop and boner is about all

1624
01:27:45,000 --> 01:27:47,280
Speaker 2: kinds of things that put her in a very submissive position.

1625
01:27:47,360 --> 01:27:50,919
Speaker 2: Let's just say sure. And while this is all happening,

1626
01:27:50,960 --> 01:27:53,519
Speaker 2: like his ex shows up at one point and he's

1627
01:27:53,600 --> 01:27:56,160
Speaker 2: hiding from her, and he kind of catches Lee in

1628
01:27:56,200 --> 01:27:59,040
Speaker 2: the active cutting, and you know she's again still in

1629
01:27:59,080 --> 01:28:02,200
Speaker 2: this kind of mix of with Peter where they're on

1630
01:28:02,240 --> 01:28:05,280
Speaker 2: a date at a laundrymat that's also a bar weirdly,

1631
01:28:06,160 --> 01:28:08,160
Speaker 2: and Peter is kind is telling her that he's had

1632
01:28:08,200 --> 01:28:11,760
Speaker 2: a nervous breakdown. But Edward sees her on this date

1633
01:28:12,040 --> 01:28:14,559
Speaker 2: and he starts getting very punishing to her. So he

1634
01:28:14,600 --> 01:28:17,280
Speaker 2: starts marking all of her errors with this red marker

1635
01:28:17,479 --> 01:28:21,000
Speaker 2: and like really really punishing her and telling her that

1636
01:28:21,040 --> 01:28:24,519
Speaker 2: she dresses disgusting. It's like, you represent my office and

1637
01:28:24,600 --> 01:28:27,840
Speaker 2: you dress disgusting. Like he's trying to find ways to

1638
01:28:28,200 --> 01:28:32,360
Speaker 2: really demean her, and he asks her flat out, like

1639
01:28:32,400 --> 01:28:34,320
Speaker 2: what is going on with the sewing kit and the

1640
01:28:34,360 --> 01:28:37,320
Speaker 2: band aids? He basically asks her why she cuts herself,

1641
01:28:37,720 --> 01:28:39,920
Speaker 2: And you can tell in her face, because I think

1642
01:28:39,960 --> 01:28:42,760
Speaker 2: her acting in this film is so remarkable, and in

1643
01:28:42,840 --> 01:28:44,880
Speaker 2: these small motions that she makes in her face, you

1644
01:28:44,920 --> 01:28:47,320
Speaker 2: can tell that nobody has ever asked her that before,

1645
01:28:47,800 --> 01:28:50,719
Speaker 2: and when somebody finally does, the floodgates kind of open

1646
01:28:50,760 --> 01:28:53,559
Speaker 2: for her and she, you know, he kind of also

1647
01:28:53,640 --> 01:28:57,200
Speaker 2: explains that feeling that she's had before she cuts in

1648
01:28:57,240 --> 01:29:00,519
Speaker 2: a way that she's never been able to. So he

1649
01:29:00,760 --> 01:29:03,400
Speaker 2: ends up telling her in that conversation, You're not going

1650
01:29:03,479 --> 01:29:05,640
Speaker 2: to do that anymore and tell your mom to go

1651
01:29:05,720 --> 01:29:08,679
Speaker 2: home because you're not a little girl, and I'm giving

1652
01:29:08,760 --> 01:29:14,000
Speaker 2: you my permission to not hurt yourself anymore. And his

1653
01:29:14,120 --> 01:29:17,439
Speaker 2: insistence and his kind of the mastery of it, and

1654
01:29:17,479 --> 01:29:19,679
Speaker 2: the way that he's been demeaning to her, it all

1655
01:29:19,760 --> 01:29:22,639
Speaker 2: kind of comes together in this very interesting mix again

1656
01:29:22,720 --> 01:29:25,120
Speaker 2: in her face, because when the movie came out, I

1657
01:29:25,160 --> 01:29:26,800
Speaker 2: remember there are a lot of arguments abou whether or

1658
01:29:26,840 --> 01:29:29,280
Speaker 2: not this is feminist, and you know, Maggie Gillenhall herself

1659
01:29:29,360 --> 01:29:31,400
Speaker 2: kind of had some reserve, was a little bit reserved

1660
01:29:31,400 --> 01:29:33,880
Speaker 2: about it. But I think it's important in this moment.

1661
01:29:33,880 --> 01:29:36,760
Speaker 2: The scene is really important because you can see in

1662
01:29:36,800 --> 01:29:40,840
Speaker 2: that moment that she's never considered another way to get

1663
01:29:40,920 --> 01:29:43,680
Speaker 2: the release that she's been seeking, even though he's the

1664
01:29:43,680 --> 01:29:47,120
Speaker 2: one that introduces this life to her. The decision is hers, yes,

1665
01:29:47,320 --> 01:29:50,280
Speaker 2: and she does make an active choice to kind of

1666
01:29:50,320 --> 01:29:57,080
Speaker 2: engage in this relationship, which eventually becomes a absolute SNM

1667
01:29:57,120 --> 01:30:02,800
Speaker 2: relationship of master and submissive and he, you know, next

1668
01:30:02,800 --> 01:30:04,559
Speaker 2: time she makes a mistake and he brings her under

1669
01:30:04,560 --> 01:30:06,120
Speaker 2: the office and he tells her to bend over the

1670
01:30:06,120 --> 01:30:09,160
Speaker 2: desk and he starts spanking her while she's reading the

1671
01:30:09,240 --> 01:30:12,280
Speaker 2: letter out loud, and she again, like she plays it.

1672
01:30:12,680 --> 01:30:15,040
Speaker 2: I think Maggie Jillenhall plays it so well because she's

1673
01:30:15,120 --> 01:30:18,720
Speaker 2: kind of playing it as this is exciting to her

1674
01:30:18,800 --> 01:30:20,920
Speaker 2: and interesting to her, and she doesn't know if it's

1675
01:30:20,960 --> 01:30:24,080
Speaker 2: okay that it's sexual, but it kind of quickly becomes

1676
01:30:24,160 --> 01:30:26,720
Speaker 2: very sexual, and she tells her mom, you know, you

1677
01:30:26,720 --> 01:30:28,639
Speaker 2: could take the lock off the cabinet, and she throws

1678
01:30:28,640 --> 01:30:32,000
Speaker 2: her kids into the river. And that's when it really

1679
01:30:32,040 --> 01:30:34,000
Speaker 2: starts in earnest, you know, he calls her and tells

1680
01:30:34,000 --> 01:30:35,679
Speaker 2: her like, she's like, what are you having for dinner tonight?

1681
01:30:35,720 --> 01:30:37,920
Speaker 2: And she tells him, well, she's having for dinner and

1682
01:30:37,920 --> 01:30:39,640
Speaker 2: he's like, okay, out of all of that, you can

1683
01:30:39,680 --> 01:30:42,439
Speaker 2: eat four peas and a scoop of potatoes and as much

1684
01:30:42,439 --> 01:30:46,280
Speaker 2: ice cream as you want. Like it becomes this very intense,

1685
01:30:46,600 --> 01:30:50,320
Speaker 2: controlled relationship and it's just again like there are moments

1686
01:30:50,360 --> 01:30:52,719
Speaker 2: of comedy in here. I don't think the movie itself

1687
01:30:52,760 --> 01:30:54,479
Speaker 2: is funny, but there's you know, the scene where he

1688
01:30:54,520 --> 01:30:56,719
Speaker 2: like puts her on a debt, like a quick cut

1689
01:30:56,760 --> 01:30:59,160
Speaker 2: scene where they're showing all the different things they're engaging

1690
01:30:59,200 --> 01:31:01,160
Speaker 2: in where he puts her on a desk with a

1691
01:31:01,200 --> 01:31:03,639
Speaker 2: saddle and a carrot and like makes her crawl around

1692
01:31:03,640 --> 01:31:06,240
Speaker 2: on the ground, but she's like it's consensual and she

1693
01:31:06,439 --> 01:31:12,479
Speaker 2: is really found something that makes her feel better about herself.

1694
01:31:12,720 --> 01:31:15,800
Speaker 1: Yeah, this is like life for her. She loves this like.

1695
01:31:15,920 --> 01:31:18,320
Speaker 2: She loves it. And there's a point where it kind

1696
01:31:18,360 --> 01:31:21,559
Speaker 2: of she starts pulling away and she's looking for ways

1697
01:31:21,600 --> 01:31:25,640
Speaker 2: to kind of bring him back, which is hilarious. But

1698
01:31:26,000 --> 01:31:28,400
Speaker 2: I think that the culmination of the movie ended up

1699
01:31:28,439 --> 01:31:31,200
Speaker 2: being much more emotional than I remembered it being like

1700
01:31:31,280 --> 01:31:35,360
Speaker 2: the way it ended was very emotional because you see

1701
01:31:36,320 --> 01:31:38,479
Speaker 2: how you get to see eventually, I don't want to

1702
01:31:38,479 --> 01:31:40,320
Speaker 2: spoil it, but you get to see how the other

1703
01:31:40,479 --> 01:31:45,640
Speaker 2: side of any kind of relationship that revolves around domination

1704
01:31:45,920 --> 01:31:48,360
Speaker 2: there also has to be an incredible amount of tenderness

1705
01:31:48,360 --> 01:31:51,680
Speaker 2: and care. And so you're there bringing out all these

1706
01:31:51,680 --> 01:31:54,280
Speaker 2: different sides of themselves and she's kind of makes a

1707
01:31:54,360 --> 01:31:58,400
Speaker 2: stand at one point that's very interesting against her family

1708
01:31:58,479 --> 01:32:01,840
Speaker 2: and friends and kind of without telling them the specifics,

1709
01:32:01,880 --> 01:32:03,880
Speaker 2: is kind of letting them know that she will do

1710
01:32:03,920 --> 01:32:07,639
Speaker 2: anything for this guy, and he really takes There's one

1711
01:32:07,640 --> 01:32:10,120
Speaker 2: scene in particular, but he really takes a great amount

1712
01:32:10,200 --> 01:32:14,559
Speaker 2: of care with her and kind of allows himself to

1713
01:32:14,600 --> 01:32:18,160
Speaker 2: be open to the possibility of real love in the

1714
01:32:18,160 --> 01:32:20,400
Speaker 2: way that he can get what he needs and she

1715
01:32:20,439 --> 01:32:22,160
Speaker 2: can get what she needs, which I don't think he's

1716
01:32:22,200 --> 01:32:24,519
Speaker 2: had before, Like based on his ex I think that

1717
01:32:24,920 --> 01:32:26,680
Speaker 2: he neither one of them have ever been able to

1718
01:32:26,680 --> 01:32:28,040
Speaker 2: get what they need in another person.

1719
01:32:28,160 --> 01:32:33,160
Speaker 1: So yeah, And also, Okay, I cried watching this movie

1720
01:32:33,160 --> 01:32:36,280
Speaker 1: this stuff, and I was like, is that right? Should

1721
01:32:36,320 --> 01:32:39,679
Speaker 1: I be crying right now? I'm having big emotions watching

1722
01:32:39,720 --> 01:32:40,320
Speaker 1: this right now?

1723
01:32:40,439 --> 01:32:42,280
Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't think that's weird.

1724
01:32:42,640 --> 01:32:45,360
Speaker 1: Okay, I was like cried during Secretary.

1725
01:32:45,400 --> 01:32:45,760
Speaker 2: I don't know.

1726
01:32:45,800 --> 01:32:48,439
Speaker 1: I was like, this is like to me, I think

1727
01:32:48,479 --> 01:32:51,320
Speaker 1: it felt in the moment when they're kind of negotiating

1728
01:32:51,360 --> 01:32:53,840
Speaker 1: all of this stuff. I mean, he obviously feels a

1729
01:32:53,960 --> 01:32:56,760
Speaker 1: level of responsibility towards her at the end of the day.

1730
01:32:57,320 --> 01:33:00,200
Speaker 1: I also think it's about shame, right, It's like people

1731
01:33:00,200 --> 01:33:05,080
Speaker 1: who are very ashamed of themselves who are discovering each

1732
01:33:05,080 --> 01:33:09,160
Speaker 1: other and realizing that they don't have to be like

1733
01:33:09,240 --> 01:33:15,960
Speaker 1: they can actually like have a connection that's real exactly.

1734
01:33:16,240 --> 01:33:19,040
Speaker 1: There's this moment where I won't spoil it because it's

1735
01:33:19,040 --> 01:33:24,920
Speaker 1: towards the end, but basically, her therapist from the facility

1736
01:33:25,360 --> 01:33:28,519
Speaker 1: right comes to visit her, and he said something that

1737
01:33:28,600 --> 01:33:30,720
Speaker 1: like fucking rock to me. He said something to the

1738
01:33:30,720 --> 01:33:35,759
Speaker 1: effect of, like, it's totally possible for love to begin

1739
01:33:36,080 --> 01:33:39,720
Speaker 1: in this way, even though everybody says it's like disordered

1740
01:33:39,760 --> 01:33:42,320
Speaker 1: and fucking weird and this and that, but this is

1741
01:33:42,360 --> 01:33:47,720
Speaker 1: not like love is not this like perfect linear romance

1742
01:33:47,880 --> 01:33:51,240
Speaker 1: that's out of a story book, right, you can go

1743
01:33:51,360 --> 01:33:55,000
Speaker 1: to a good place, even though this is not the

1744
01:33:55,080 --> 01:33:55,920
Speaker 1: traditional setup.

1745
01:33:55,920 --> 01:34:00,439
Speaker 2: And I was like, oh my god, like well because

1746
01:34:00,439 --> 01:34:02,479
Speaker 2: it honors so much of her own experience. In that

1747
01:34:02,520 --> 01:34:05,280
Speaker 2: moment where he's not he's basically saying, you know, what's

1748
01:34:05,320 --> 01:34:07,920
Speaker 2: happened to you doesn't have to define you forever, but

1749
01:34:08,000 --> 01:34:09,679
Speaker 2: you don't have to ignore it in order to get

1750
01:34:09,680 --> 01:34:11,639
Speaker 2: the kind of love that you you desire.

1751
01:34:12,040 --> 01:34:17,800
Speaker 1: Very powerful, Yeah, dude, I rocked. I was rocked.

1752
01:34:18,040 --> 01:34:20,080
Speaker 2: And then there's I mean, there's there's a moment where

1753
01:34:20,560 --> 01:34:24,720
Speaker 2: you know, the Edward Gray character is trying to resist

1754
01:34:24,760 --> 01:34:28,559
Speaker 2: this urge within himself and he says to Lee, like,

1755
01:34:28,600 --> 01:34:31,200
Speaker 2: we can't do this every day all the time, and

1756
01:34:31,240 --> 01:34:33,960
Speaker 2: she just looks at him and says, why not, Like

1757
01:34:34,000 --> 01:34:37,559
Speaker 2: he'd never considered the possibility because of shame. He'd never

1758
01:34:37,600 --> 01:34:40,519
Speaker 2: considered the possibility that he could actually have what he

1759
01:34:40,600 --> 01:34:42,240
Speaker 2: needs all day every day.

1760
01:34:42,600 --> 01:34:45,439
Speaker 1: Yeah, because he's got somebody that sees him, you know,

1761
01:34:45,800 --> 01:34:48,200
Speaker 1: and he sees her in that very you know, in

1762
01:34:48,200 --> 01:34:50,599
Speaker 1: that scene, like you said, of the what he's telling,

1763
01:34:50,800 --> 01:34:53,400
Speaker 1: giving her that kind of permission to not harm herself.

1764
01:34:53,439 --> 01:34:53,640
Speaker 1: You know.

1765
01:34:53,840 --> 01:34:54,720
Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't know.

1766
01:34:54,960 --> 01:34:56,840
Speaker 1: I was like, this is like when I first saw

1767
01:34:56,840 --> 01:34:59,680
Speaker 1: the movie, obviously, I was very like, Okay, this is

1768
01:34:59,720 --> 01:35:02,200
Speaker 1: gonna be a movie about the S and M world,

1769
01:35:02,280 --> 01:35:07,439
Speaker 1: and you know, there's very sexy moments in it. But

1770
01:35:07,479 --> 01:35:09,439
Speaker 1: then I think I saw it saying it again, I

1771
01:35:09,520 --> 01:35:14,080
Speaker 1: realized it was so much more emotional than I, like you.

1772
01:35:14,000 --> 01:35:17,160
Speaker 2: Said, completely And I think it does a real service too,

1773
01:35:17,200 --> 01:35:19,840
Speaker 2: because I've listened to a lot of podcasts and you know,

1774
01:35:19,960 --> 01:35:22,200
Speaker 2: read a lot of books and stuff about you know,

1775
01:35:22,920 --> 01:35:26,960
Speaker 2: ethical sexual interactions in this world, and I think that

1776
01:35:28,760 --> 01:35:32,080
Speaker 2: the perception is changing and it's becoming more widely known

1777
01:35:32,080 --> 01:35:33,400
Speaker 2: that there does have to be a great amount of

1778
01:35:33,400 --> 01:35:36,280
Speaker 2: consent and care in these relationships. But in two thousand

1779
01:35:36,280 --> 01:35:38,559
Speaker 2: and two. I think that wasn't really like at the

1780
01:35:38,600 --> 01:35:41,600
Speaker 2: forefront of any conversations. So I think they did a

1781
01:35:41,640 --> 01:35:44,719
Speaker 2: remarkable job. And I think it's because of Maggie Jillenhall.

1782
01:35:44,760 --> 01:35:46,360
Speaker 2: They were able to do such a great job with

1783
01:35:47,000 --> 01:35:49,959
Speaker 2: kind of playing out how this world or the introduction

1784
01:35:50,080 --> 01:35:53,040
Speaker 2: of this world would land in someone who's so naive

1785
01:35:53,800 --> 01:35:57,160
Speaker 2: and not making it creepy or weird. Yeah, I think

1786
01:35:57,200 --> 01:35:59,479
Speaker 2: they did a great job. And she's she's amazing. Like

1787
01:35:59,520 --> 01:36:02,640
Speaker 2: I said, I just really I really look forward to

1788
01:36:02,720 --> 01:36:05,439
Speaker 2: whatever she always chooses next. And I think that she's

1789
01:36:06,280 --> 01:36:09,160
Speaker 2: fantastic for the theme of staunch women.

1790
01:36:09,439 --> 01:36:13,360
Speaker 1: Oh my god, absolutely perfect. Like I said when I

1791
01:36:13,600 --> 01:36:16,080
Speaker 1: was at the beginning, when we were talking about coming

1792
01:36:16,120 --> 01:36:19,720
Speaker 1: up with the theme, when you pick this, I was like, perfection,

1793
01:36:20,160 --> 01:36:23,960
Speaker 1: like perfected the theme. Really, this is exactly what I

1794
01:36:24,000 --> 01:36:27,120
Speaker 1: was envisioning. Is this, Like you know, this woman who

1795
01:36:27,320 --> 01:36:31,479
Speaker 1: comes to movies makes really good, interesting art with this

1796
01:36:31,560 --> 01:36:35,240
Speaker 1: like very thought provoking kind of star making role.

1797
01:36:35,560 --> 01:36:36,280
Speaker 2: And it's bold.

1798
01:36:36,720 --> 01:36:39,000
Speaker 1: Yeah, so it's like this big part of the culture now.

1799
01:36:39,439 --> 01:36:42,840
Speaker 1: I totally think that Fifty Shades of Gray ripped this off.

1800
01:36:42,880 --> 01:36:46,400
Speaker 1: And I know that's probably a bold statement, but it's

1801
01:36:46,720 --> 01:36:47,559
Speaker 1: this is my opinion.

1802
01:36:47,760 --> 01:36:50,519
Speaker 2: I don't think so. I think watch both movies and

1803
01:36:51,000 --> 01:36:51,960
Speaker 2: make your own deduction.

1804
01:36:52,439 --> 01:36:58,400
Speaker 1: But also I gotta say, in my opinion, a better

1805
01:36:58,600 --> 01:37:02,519
Speaker 1: story of it. And then those movies, I gotta say, yes,

1806
01:37:02,960 --> 01:37:08,120
Speaker 1: there was something to me my opinion regressive about those

1807
01:37:08,320 --> 01:37:11,920
Speaker 1: films completely which doesn't feel this way in this one.

1808
01:37:12,200 --> 01:37:16,280
Speaker 2: Regressive and unsexy, like comically unsexy.

1809
01:37:17,360 --> 01:37:19,559
Speaker 1: Sex genes need I say, moor.

1810
01:37:20,240 --> 01:37:21,920
Speaker 2: Well, I love this and I'm so glad we got

1811
01:37:21,960 --> 01:37:24,439
Speaker 2: to do it. Me too, and I can't wait till

1812
01:37:24,439 --> 01:37:26,080
Speaker 2: next week. But we have a couple of messages before

1813
01:37:26,080 --> 01:37:26,840
Speaker 2: we tell you the movies.

1814
01:37:27,120 --> 01:37:29,840
Speaker 1: Yes, if you want to email us, please do so.

1815
01:37:30,080 --> 01:37:32,080
Speaker 1: I Saw what you did pot at gmail dot com.

1816
01:37:32,400 --> 01:37:35,919
Speaker 1: We are always accepting you know, emails for bonus episodes

1817
01:37:36,080 --> 01:37:39,760
Speaker 1: but also sometimes mainfeed episodes. And we also have a

1818
01:37:39,760 --> 01:37:42,360
Speaker 1: pobox if you want to send us handwritten mail.

1819
01:37:42,760 --> 01:37:45,400
Speaker 2: And you can find our po box information on link

1820
01:37:45,439 --> 01:37:48,760
Speaker 2: tree on our Instagram which is at I Saw pod

1821
01:37:49,280 --> 01:37:52,280
Speaker 2: on Instagram, Blue Sky, and Twitter, and you can also

1822
01:37:52,400 --> 01:37:54,360
Speaker 2: leave us a voicemail. Now you have to do is

1823
01:37:54,400 --> 01:37:57,920
Speaker 2: record a voice memo on your phone and email it

1824
01:37:57,960 --> 01:38:00,200
Speaker 2: to I Saw what you did pot at gmail dot com.

1825
01:38:00,240 --> 01:38:03,559
Speaker 2: It has to be sixty seconds or less and please

1826
01:38:03,600 --> 01:38:04,679
Speaker 2: record it in acquiet space.

1827
01:38:05,040 --> 01:38:07,920
Speaker 1: And we also have merch Go to exactly right store

1828
01:38:08,160 --> 01:38:10,080
Speaker 1: dot com to buy it.

1829
01:38:10,680 --> 01:38:13,720
Speaker 2: And our new bonus episodes dropped the third Thursday of

1830
01:38:13,920 --> 01:38:18,320
Speaker 2: every month. Millie, next week's movies. You gotta tell him?

1831
01:38:18,560 --> 01:38:19,880
Speaker 1: Oh you want me to tell him?

1832
01:38:20,360 --> 01:38:20,800
Speaker 2: I do.

1833
01:38:22,560 --> 01:38:25,120
Speaker 1: I was gonna give you the honor, but I'll take it.

1834
01:38:25,840 --> 01:38:27,240
Speaker 2: I will not be able to get through it.

1835
01:38:27,920 --> 01:38:31,920
Speaker 1: Okay. Now I use the term barn burner a lot,

1836
01:38:32,080 --> 01:38:34,559
Speaker 1: but I truly believe that the movies for next week

1837
01:38:34,680 --> 01:38:37,880
Speaker 1: are going to burn the barn down and the dirt

1838
01:38:37,920 --> 01:38:43,960
Speaker 1: below it. The movies are Heathers from nineteen eighty eight

1839
01:38:44,320 --> 01:38:48,679
Speaker 1: and on tape Heart from nineteen maybe three.

1840
01:38:48,800 --> 01:38:51,479
Speaker 2: I am already know that I'm going to have a

1841
01:38:51,520 --> 01:38:54,040
Speaker 2: fit during this true I'm going to treat it like

1842
01:38:54,040 --> 01:38:56,000
Speaker 2: a true double feature, and I might not make it.

1843
01:38:56,320 --> 01:38:59,559
Speaker 1: Okay, We've never done a three hour episode before, but

1844
01:38:59,720 --> 01:39:00,559
Speaker 1: this might happen.

1845
01:39:01,200 --> 01:39:03,320
Speaker 2: Just this might be that, this might be the time.

1846
01:39:03,680 --> 01:39:04,280
Speaker 1: It might be.

1847
01:39:04,640 --> 01:39:07,680
Speaker 2: Everyone block out an extra hour for next week's recordings.

1848
01:39:08,760 --> 01:39:13,479
Speaker 1: Clear the space. We need a big landing strip for

1849
01:39:13,560 --> 01:39:16,519
Speaker 1: this one. Oh good, listen as always Danielle, A fucking

1850
01:39:16,520 --> 01:39:18,200
Speaker 1: pleasure to doing this podcast with you. I love you

1851
01:39:18,240 --> 01:39:18,599
Speaker 1: so much.

1852
01:39:18,760 --> 01:39:21,920
Speaker 2: I love you too, and this is so much fun. BEG.

1853
01:39:28,240 --> 01:39:31,320
Speaker 2: This has been an exactly right production. Produced by Casey O'Brien,

1854
01:39:31,600 --> 01:39:35,200
Speaker 2: episode mixing and theme music by Tom Bryfogel, artwork by

1855
01:39:35,200 --> 01:39:39,200
Speaker 2: Garrett Ross. Our executive producers are Georgia Hart, Start caringkil Garriff,

1856
01:39:39,200 --> 01:39:41,920
Speaker 2: and Daniel Kramer. You can follow us on Instagram and

1857
01:39:42,000 --> 01:39:44,840
Speaker 2: Twitter at I Saw Pod, and you can email us

1858
01:39:44,880 --> 01:39:47,000
Speaker 2: at I Saw What You Did Pod at gmail