1
00:00:00,080 --> 00:00:03,880
Speaker 1: Hello, Avenger listeners, It's Steve Fishman and I'm really glad

2
00:00:03,880 --> 00:00:06,120
Speaker 1: you've tuned in. I hope you love this show as

3
00:00:06,200 --> 00:00:09,200
Speaker 1: much as we do. A quick word on an upcoming

4
00:00:09,280 --> 00:00:14,160
Speaker 1: bonus episode. We're doing a bonus with Miriam, the real Miriam.

5
00:00:14,440 --> 00:00:18,720
Speaker 1: We'll be asking her questions, your questions, and getting answers.

6
00:00:19,040 --> 00:00:21,840
Speaker 1: She'll update us on what's going on in her world

7
00:00:21,880 --> 00:00:26,040
Speaker 1: and a lot has Please email your questions or thoughts

8
00:00:26,200 --> 00:00:32,840
Speaker 1: or comments too. Info at Orbitmedia dot fm. Oh and

9
00:00:33,120 --> 00:00:36,120
Speaker 1: Fisher Stevens can answer your questions too. He's our co

10
00:00:36,240 --> 00:00:39,639
Speaker 1: founder and resident Oscar winner. He's an actor you saw

11
00:00:39,680 --> 00:00:43,520
Speaker 1: him in Succession and director of actors like al Pacino

12
00:00:44,120 --> 00:00:48,760
Speaker 1: and Justin Timberlake. For Avenger, he directed Alexis Bledel, who

13
00:00:48,840 --> 00:00:52,720
Speaker 1: voices Miriam. If We're lucky, Alexis who was the star

14
00:00:52,760 --> 00:00:56,400
Speaker 1: of Gilmore Girls and Handmaid's Tale and is the daughter

15
00:00:56,440 --> 00:01:01,639
Speaker 1: of an Argentine. We'll chip in answers to so let

16
00:01:01,680 --> 00:01:05,600
Speaker 1: us know your thoughts and questions, hopes and prayers. Info

17
00:01:05,800 --> 00:01:14,759
Speaker 1: at Orbitmedia dot FM. Thanks. In this episode, justice happens finally,

18
00:01:15,600 --> 00:01:20,600
Speaker 1: but a question remains, one that brings Miriam to the edge.

19
00:01:20,640 --> 00:01:26,320
Speaker 1: Why did I survive or answer will move you. A

20
00:01:26,400 --> 00:01:30,240
Speaker 1: quick word about subscriptions. If you love ads, listen on.

21
00:01:30,880 --> 00:01:33,560
Speaker 1: If you're not so keen on ads, sign up for

22
00:01:33,640 --> 00:01:38,520
Speaker 1: True Crime Clubhouse on Apple Podcasts. That's our subscription channel.

23
00:01:38,959 --> 00:01:42,280
Speaker 1: You'll get no ads, and also you can binge the

24
00:01:42,560 --> 00:01:46,240
Speaker 1: entire Avengers series. It's just two ninety nine a month.

25
00:01:46,880 --> 00:01:52,160
Speaker 2: Thanks. Before we begin, please note that for this story

26
00:01:52,280 --> 00:01:55,400
Speaker 2: we interviewed Medium and everyone else for dozens of hours

27
00:01:55,440 --> 00:02:07,360
Speaker 2: in Spanish. We hired actors to voice their words in English.

28
00:02:07,720 --> 00:02:11,760
Speaker 2: It's twenty eleven, almost three decades since Medium's released from prison,

29
00:02:12,400 --> 00:02:16,320
Speaker 2: since the fall of the dictatorship and Argentina's returned to democracy.

30
00:02:17,440 --> 00:02:20,320
Speaker 2: By now, a judge has attached the investigation against the

31
00:02:20,320 --> 00:02:23,720
Speaker 2: three pilots to the Big SMA case. It's gearing up

32
00:02:23,760 --> 00:02:28,639
Speaker 2: to be the biggest human rights trial in the country's history.

33
00:02:29,440 --> 00:02:33,200
Speaker 2: Months before the trial begins, a prosecutor investigating the Death

34
00:02:33,200 --> 00:02:35,480
Speaker 2: Flights makes a surprise announcement.

35
00:02:36,080 --> 00:02:39,840
Speaker 3: He said they had identified the pilots of the death Flights,

36
00:02:40,000 --> 00:02:43,200
Speaker 3: who flew the Santa Cruz church group in December nineteen

37
00:02:43,240 --> 00:02:44,040
Speaker 3: seventy seven.

38
00:02:44,600 --> 00:02:47,720
Speaker 2: He doesn't release any names, but once it's in the news,

39
00:02:48,000 --> 00:02:52,079
Speaker 2: the pilots will know it's them. Medium is confused. Why

40
00:02:52,120 --> 00:02:54,919
Speaker 2: should the prosecutor do this before the pilots were arrested.

41
00:02:55,520 --> 00:02:56,720
Speaker 2: It doesn't make sense.

42
00:02:57,480 --> 00:02:59,840
Speaker 3: Was he trying to give the pilots a chance to

43
00:03:00,160 --> 00:03:02,200
Speaker 3: leave the country.

44
00:03:02,240 --> 00:03:03,960
Speaker 2: But things get even weirder.

45
00:03:04,639 --> 00:03:09,320
Speaker 3: Mario Danielle Arub He was sixty two. He had been

46
00:03:09,360 --> 00:03:13,400
Speaker 3: flying for the National Airline. This pilot went to the

47
00:03:13,520 --> 00:03:15,880
Speaker 3: judge's office and turned himself.

48
00:03:15,440 --> 00:03:19,079
Speaker 2: In instead of arresting him, the judge confirms he's being

49
00:03:19,120 --> 00:03:23,120
Speaker 2: accused of flying a death flight in December nineteen seventy seven,

50
00:03:24,040 --> 00:03:27,320
Speaker 2: of piloting the sky van that Medium and Giancarlo had

51
00:03:27,360 --> 00:03:28,280
Speaker 2: found in Florida.

52
00:03:28,840 --> 00:03:32,960
Speaker 3: So the judge tells the pilot not to worry that

53
00:03:33,080 --> 00:03:36,520
Speaker 3: he could go home, that someone would contact him soon.

54
00:03:38,000 --> 00:03:43,840
Speaker 3: I mean, what the risk of the pilot's fleeing vanishing?

55
00:03:44,440 --> 00:03:45,920
Speaker 3: It kept me up all night.

56
00:03:49,840 --> 00:03:54,200
Speaker 2: Several weeks later, Medium wakes up, makes coffee, and then

57
00:03:54,600 --> 00:04:04,200
Speaker 2: she hears breaking news coming from the radiotoria.

58
00:04:04,840 --> 00:04:08,800
Speaker 3: Finally, the judge ordered the arrest of the three pilots

59
00:04:08,800 --> 00:04:11,720
Speaker 3: involved in the flight that killed the Santa Cruz church group.

60
00:04:12,640 --> 00:04:15,840
Speaker 3: Among them were the two French nuns and the mothers

61
00:04:16,000 --> 00:04:18,520
Speaker 3: who were looking for their disappeared.

62
00:04:20,960 --> 00:04:25,200
Speaker 2: From Orbit media. I'm andres caaba schedo. This is Avenger

63
00:04:25,600 --> 00:04:41,680
Speaker 2: the story of Medium Lewin Episode eight.

64
00:04:42,480 --> 00:04:46,480
Speaker 4: Justice.

65
00:04:47,040 --> 00:04:49,680
Speaker 2: When it comes to putting the top generals, the junta

66
00:04:49,760 --> 00:04:53,240
Speaker 2: leaders in prison for life, the path was hardly a

67
00:04:53,279 --> 00:04:54,120
Speaker 2: straight line.

68
00:04:54,560 --> 00:04:58,560
Speaker 3: After the amnesty laws went into effect. There were trials

69
00:04:58,680 --> 00:05:02,400
Speaker 3: that tried to expose the truth, but the accused were

70
00:05:02,440 --> 00:05:06,000
Speaker 3: able to admit they had kidnapped and tortured people, and

71
00:05:06,040 --> 00:05:09,000
Speaker 3: then they were just able to return to their homes

72
00:05:09,080 --> 00:05:12,320
Speaker 3: and their everyday lives with zero consequences.

73
00:05:13,080 --> 00:05:17,000
Speaker 2: Remember, the laws passed by the democratically elected government gave

74
00:05:17,080 --> 00:05:20,960
Speaker 2: amnesty to anyone who claimed to be just following orders.

75
00:05:21,800 --> 00:05:25,280
Speaker 2: The human rights trials against military officials were halted by

76
00:05:25,320 --> 00:05:29,000
Speaker 2: those laws. Then, in two thousand and five, two years

77
00:05:29,000 --> 00:05:32,520
Speaker 2: before Medium and Gen Carlo started their investigation, the Supreme

78
00:05:32,560 --> 00:05:38,240
Speaker 2: Court finally declares the amnesty laws unconstitutional. Now the trials

79
00:05:38,240 --> 00:05:42,160
Speaker 2: are back on, more people are speaking up, more evidence

80
00:05:42,440 --> 00:05:49,920
Speaker 2: is emerging. The Junta leaders, once spared prison sentences, are

81
00:05:50,040 --> 00:05:51,040
Speaker 2: vulnerable again.

82
00:05:51,560 --> 00:05:54,640
Speaker 5: The Supreme Court annulled the amnesty, opening the door for

83
00:05:54,720 --> 00:05:58,080
Speaker 5: Videla to be sentenced again. On thirty one, New counts

84
00:05:58,120 --> 00:05:59,480
Speaker 5: of torture and murder.

85
00:06:00,279 --> 00:06:04,320
Speaker 2: Jorge Rafaele Videla, who orchestrated the military court the.

86
00:06:04,320 --> 00:06:07,400
Speaker 5: Highlight of a week of convictions against violators of human

87
00:06:07,480 --> 00:06:10,479
Speaker 5: rights and life sentence for eighty five year old for

88
00:06:10,600 --> 00:06:11,719
Speaker 5: her Rafaele Videla.

89
00:06:12,520 --> 00:06:15,880
Speaker 2: In twenty twelve, a year after being convicted for torture

90
00:06:16,000 --> 00:06:18,920
Speaker 2: and murder, Videla is facing a new trial.

91
00:06:19,839 --> 00:06:23,120
Speaker 6: Activists were gathered outside the court in a nearby square.

92
00:06:23,600 --> 00:06:26,320
Speaker 6: A television link had been set up to beam the

93
00:06:26,360 --> 00:06:32,599
Speaker 6: court proceedings to the hundreds of people who had assembled outside.

94
00:06:32,640 --> 00:06:36,480
Speaker 2: The charges were horrific. During its rule, the junta stole

95
00:06:36,560 --> 00:06:40,080
Speaker 2: roughly five hundred babies from their mothers and then sold

96
00:06:40,120 --> 00:06:44,160
Speaker 2: those babies or give them to military families deemed politically acceptable.

97
00:06:45,360 --> 00:06:48,920
Speaker 2: Prosecutors believed the baby stealing was so widespread that there

98
00:06:49,000 --> 00:06:51,120
Speaker 2: was no way the orders weren't coming from the top.

99
00:06:52,120 --> 00:06:54,520
Speaker 2: They charged Videla with masterminding it all.

100
00:06:55,160 --> 00:06:59,280
Speaker 1: Vidella has repeatedly justified his regime's brutal tactics.

101
00:07:00,200 --> 00:07:04,800
Speaker 2: Videla's defense, yes, babies were confiscated, but he had nothing

102
00:07:04,800 --> 00:07:07,400
Speaker 2: to do with it. It wasn't some sort of grand

103
00:07:07,480 --> 00:07:11,440
Speaker 2: government plan. Apparently he wanted people to believe it was

104
00:07:11,480 --> 00:07:20,400
Speaker 2: some sort of freelance project by military underlings. The jury disagreed.

105
00:07:21,200 --> 00:07:25,000
Speaker 2: Videla was found guilty and got another fifty years in prison.

106
00:07:25,600 --> 00:07:28,000
Speaker 2: Less than a year later, he was found dead in

107
00:07:28,040 --> 00:07:32,160
Speaker 2: his cell, sitting on a toilet. He had reportedly fallen

108
00:07:32,480 --> 00:07:33,960
Speaker 2: and never got medical attention.

109
00:07:34,440 --> 00:07:37,880
Speaker 5: There are still some eight hundred other alleged rights violators

110
00:07:37,920 --> 00:07:41,320
Speaker 5: awaiting trial, and given their advanced age and the lately

111
00:07:41,400 --> 00:07:52,080
Speaker 5: legal process, they may never face Justice.

112
00:07:55,640 --> 00:07:59,840
Speaker 7: Alfredo Ignacio Attis, Antonio Perniaz.

113
00:08:00,000 --> 00:08:04,119
Speaker 2: It's over twenty eleven. Alfredostis, known as the Blonde Angel

114
00:08:04,160 --> 00:08:08,400
Speaker 2: of death sits in a packed courtroom. It's sentencing day.

115
00:08:09,640 --> 00:08:13,320
Speaker 2: Once Astes used his angelic face to infiltrate a group

116
00:08:13,320 --> 00:08:16,360
Speaker 2: of mothers of the disappeared. He had kissed those he

117
00:08:16,400 --> 00:08:20,119
Speaker 2: wanted kidnapped. Then they were taken to a clandestine center

118
00:08:20,240 --> 00:08:23,280
Speaker 2: and put on death flights. He no longer has that

119
00:08:23,360 --> 00:08:27,920
Speaker 2: baby face. Now he looks disgruntled. His hair's combed to

120
00:08:27,960 --> 00:08:30,400
Speaker 2: the side, and he's wearing a dark gray suit with

121
00:08:30,440 --> 00:08:36,800
Speaker 2: a black tie. A few rows behind him, a glass

122
00:08:36,840 --> 00:08:40,480
Speaker 2: wall has been installed to separate defendants like Astees from

123
00:08:40,520 --> 00:08:44,680
Speaker 2: the justice hungry relatives of the disappeared watching everything unfold.

124
00:08:45,440 --> 00:08:49,959
Speaker 3: I sat just feet away from Astise. At one point

125
00:08:50,040 --> 00:08:55,000
Speaker 3: he looked right at me with resentment, as if I

126
00:08:55,120 --> 00:08:59,439
Speaker 3: owed him some sort of loyalty. It was absurd, as

127
00:08:59,480 --> 00:09:02,319
Speaker 3: if he were telling me, how could you?

128
00:09:03,280 --> 00:09:08,280
Speaker 2: Astis had really believed Medium was an ally twenty years earlier,

129
00:09:08,559 --> 00:09:11,800
Speaker 2: when Medium was still under Junta control. He had written

130
00:09:11,840 --> 00:09:14,760
Speaker 2: his contact information on a napkin in case she needed

131
00:09:14,800 --> 00:09:18,840
Speaker 2: anything after she was released from prison. The same napkin

132
00:09:19,160 --> 00:09:22,240
Speaker 2: Medium had produced in the nineteen eighty five Junta trial

133
00:09:22,640 --> 00:09:24,400
Speaker 2: to implicate Astis.

134
00:09:24,559 --> 00:09:29,640
Speaker 7: In the Ciencia Parsial del Suez. Doctor Ricardo Louis Fardiez.

135
00:09:30,200 --> 00:09:33,360
Speaker 2: Two rows in front of Astis is Jorge Eltira Costa,

136
00:09:33,679 --> 00:09:35,640
Speaker 2: the guy who used to say that Jesus sat on

137
00:09:35,679 --> 00:09:38,120
Speaker 2: his shoulder every night and told him who to put

138
00:09:38,160 --> 00:09:41,160
Speaker 2: on the death flights. Medium knew him well. He had

139
00:09:41,200 --> 00:09:42,719
Speaker 2: taken her and her parents.

140
00:09:42,520 --> 00:09:46,319
Speaker 7: To dinner Bigamoo Condo Ajorge.

141
00:09:51,360 --> 00:09:55,600
Speaker 3: The families and activists were anxiously waiting, so were the

142
00:09:55,640 --> 00:09:58,320
Speaker 3: people who couldn't get in, watching live through a big

143
00:09:58,360 --> 00:10:03,679
Speaker 3: screen outside the court. Gian Carlo was also there, taking pictures,

144
00:10:04,120 --> 00:10:08,120
Speaker 3: but we barely saw each other. There were so many people.

145
00:10:11,600 --> 00:10:15,560
Speaker 2: A Coostaynastis were sentenced to life in prison for crimes

146
00:10:15,600 --> 00:10:19,960
Speaker 2: against humanity. In the years to come, these commanders would

147
00:10:19,960 --> 00:10:23,480
Speaker 2: be tried and sentenced over and over again. But the

148
00:10:23,520 --> 00:10:26,960
Speaker 2: biggest human rights case in Argentina's history is still in

149
00:10:27,000 --> 00:10:27,520
Speaker 2: the making.

150
00:10:28,360 --> 00:10:31,720
Speaker 8: The trial over what happened at the Navy Mechanical School

151
00:10:32,160 --> 00:10:36,000
Speaker 8: is the largest ever human rights trial in Argentina. It

152
00:10:36,040 --> 00:10:39,160
Speaker 8: will be a long process, but one many are hoping

153
00:10:39,360 --> 00:10:43,280
Speaker 8: will bring closure to a painful chapter of Argentine history.

154
00:10:44,800 --> 00:10:48,520
Speaker 2: This trial marked the first time that Argentina's justice system

155
00:10:48,800 --> 00:10:52,240
Speaker 2: acknowledged that the death flights were a systematic plan to

156
00:10:52,360 --> 00:10:58,320
Speaker 2: kill thousands of dissidents, a state sanctioned assassination program. The

157
00:10:58,400 --> 00:11:01,600
Speaker 2: pilots were in the spotlight, especially those who flew the

158
00:11:01,640 --> 00:11:04,839
Speaker 2: planes that killed the mothers and the nuns, the victims

159
00:11:05,000 --> 00:11:08,520
Speaker 2: chosen from the crowd by asties. They'd been loaded on

160
00:11:08,559 --> 00:11:12,400
Speaker 2: a death flight in December nineteen seventy seven, a sky van,

161
00:11:12,920 --> 00:11:15,240
Speaker 2: the same plane that Medium and Giancarlo had tracked down

162
00:11:15,240 --> 00:11:18,760
Speaker 2: in Florida, with the flight lugs and the pilot's names.

163
00:11:19,559 --> 00:11:23,079
Speaker 2: Pilots who for thirty years after flying death machines had

164
00:11:23,120 --> 00:11:27,319
Speaker 2: filtered back into civilian life, leading normal lives as if

165
00:11:27,360 --> 00:11:31,120
Speaker 2: nothing had happened. At the time of the trial, two

166
00:11:31,160 --> 00:11:35,319
Speaker 2: of these pilots were flying regularly to Europe for Atlinias Argentinas,

167
00:11:35,720 --> 00:11:39,760
Speaker 2: the country's national airline. One of them was rue.

168
00:11:40,600 --> 00:11:44,200
Speaker 9: That Arula's name. I heard it before.

169
00:11:44,679 --> 00:11:48,880
Speaker 2: Whenever Giangadlo went to Rome, he would fly with Arolinias Argentinas.

170
00:11:49,679 --> 00:11:51,920
Speaker 9: The thing is that in this flight they tend to

171
00:11:51,960 --> 00:11:54,640
Speaker 9: say the names of the pilots, and the Arula's name

172
00:11:54,800 --> 00:11:57,199
Speaker 9: stuck with me because it was a Sardo last name

173
00:11:57,240 --> 00:12:00,160
Speaker 9: from Sardinia, Italy. So when we looked at the list

174
00:12:00,200 --> 00:12:03,640
Speaker 9: of pilots from the sky, then I immediately recognized the name.

175
00:12:04,240 --> 00:12:07,480
Speaker 9: It was the same Arou I had actually flown with

176
00:12:07,559 --> 00:12:08,200
Speaker 9: a death flight.

177
00:12:08,280 --> 00:12:11,800
Speaker 2: Pilot. Eru and Saint George had asked to leave the

178
00:12:11,800 --> 00:12:15,160
Speaker 2: military around nineteen seventy eight, but not all of the

179
00:12:15,200 --> 00:12:19,960
Speaker 2: pilots did. One pilot, Alejandro Domingo de Agustino, stayed and

180
00:12:20,000 --> 00:12:22,000
Speaker 2: eventually ran airplane maintenance.

181
00:12:22,760 --> 00:12:26,200
Speaker 3: Seventeen days after the flight where the nuns and the

182
00:12:26,240 --> 00:12:31,360
Speaker 3: activists were killed, a military superior wrote a letter praising

183
00:12:31,520 --> 00:12:36,720
Speaker 3: the Agustina for his ability to follow instructions, his ability

184
00:12:36,840 --> 00:12:38,160
Speaker 3: to be level headed.

185
00:12:39,120 --> 00:12:41,480
Speaker 2: Just how deeply they were involved in the death flights

186
00:12:41,840 --> 00:12:45,960
Speaker 2: would determine their punishment. The pilots claimed they only flew

187
00:12:45,960 --> 00:12:49,840
Speaker 2: the planes and didn't know about the executions happening a

188
00:12:49,880 --> 00:12:53,760
Speaker 2: few feet away from the cockpit, while Enrique Mirinto, the

189
00:12:53,800 --> 00:12:56,720
Speaker 2: aviation expert who had helped Medium and gian Carlo understand

190
00:12:56,720 --> 00:13:01,000
Speaker 2: what happened, told the jury no way. The pilots had

191
00:13:01,040 --> 00:13:04,240
Speaker 2: to be an intimate part of the death machine.

192
00:13:04,320 --> 00:13:07,880
Speaker 4: Inside the plane, a person must be assigned as a

193
00:13:07,920 --> 00:13:11,559
Speaker 4: flight technician of sorts. This would have been the actual

194
00:13:11,679 --> 00:13:17,080
Speaker 4: person operating the latches. Those latches enabled the cargo doors

195
00:13:17,120 --> 00:13:20,560
Speaker 4: to be opened during flight, but for this to happen,

196
00:13:20,720 --> 00:13:24,360
Speaker 4: that technician has to inform the pilot about it so

197
00:13:24,400 --> 00:13:25,680
Speaker 4: that it's done safely.

198
00:13:26,679 --> 00:13:29,600
Speaker 2: A pilot must know what's happening inside the plane at

199
00:13:29,679 --> 00:13:33,280
Speaker 2: all times, from the number of passengers to how much

200
00:13:33,360 --> 00:13:37,760
Speaker 2: cargoes on board. Weight is an important safety consideration, So

201
00:13:37,840 --> 00:13:40,640
Speaker 2: when the pilot hears that a technician wants to open

202
00:13:40,640 --> 00:13:43,880
Speaker 2: the hatch mid flight, he has to ask. He has

203
00:13:43,960 --> 00:13:47,679
Speaker 2: to know what's happening. There is no chance they're not aware.

204
00:13:47,880 --> 00:13:54,680
Speaker 2: No possible way. Begnetto's testimony is strong, convincing, but was

205
00:13:54,720 --> 00:14:02,319
Speaker 2: it enough to build a solid case. In twenty twelve,

206
00:14:02,760 --> 00:14:06,680
Speaker 2: Medium finds herself in a unique position, a journalist whose

207
00:14:06,720 --> 00:14:10,000
Speaker 2: investigation led to this trial and is also a witness

208
00:14:10,080 --> 00:14:12,160
Speaker 2: to what happened at the Esthma clandestine center.

209
00:14:12,679 --> 00:14:15,000
Speaker 3: I have to be ready to talk with lawyers and

210
00:14:15,080 --> 00:14:18,959
Speaker 3: public defenders, and then I have to testify over and

211
00:14:19,120 --> 00:14:24,160
Speaker 3: over again, which as long as I'm alive, it's my responsibility.

212
00:14:25,000 --> 00:14:28,320
Speaker 2: At this point, a new prosecutor comes into the picture.

213
00:14:28,920 --> 00:14:32,840
Speaker 2: Mercedes Sosa Riley has the big task of consolidating all

214
00:14:32,880 --> 00:14:36,760
Speaker 2: of the survivor's testimonies people at ESMA with the evidence

215
00:14:36,800 --> 00:14:38,840
Speaker 2: from Medium and gian Carlo's investigation.

216
00:14:39,360 --> 00:14:43,960
Speaker 10: Ila pruea mediam al huisio foe absolute am.

217
00:14:46,320 --> 00:14:49,600
Speaker 2: That's Mercedes. She's explaining how the evidence Medium brought to

218
00:14:49,640 --> 00:14:53,200
Speaker 2: the case is incredibly revealing. The flight logs are the

219
00:14:53,280 --> 00:14:56,080
Speaker 2: missing link we needed to solve the case, she says,

220
00:14:56,800 --> 00:15:00,320
Speaker 2: the names of the pilots, signs of abnormal flights, and

221
00:15:00,400 --> 00:15:02,680
Speaker 2: details about the flight that killed the church group.

222
00:15:03,080 --> 00:15:09,720
Speaker 10: Yes a la Santa Gruz.

223
00:15:10,440 --> 00:15:15,160
Speaker 2: Once all the claims, testimonies and evidence are compiled, Mercedes

224
00:15:15,240 --> 00:15:18,120
Speaker 2: is ready to present a case where the whole isthma

225
00:15:18,200 --> 00:15:21,520
Speaker 2: structure would, for the first time in history, be on trial.

226
00:15:22,480 --> 00:15:28,640
Speaker 2: The kidnappers, the infiltrators, the torturers, the pilots, any superior

227
00:15:28,720 --> 00:15:31,920
Speaker 2: who gave them orders, all would now face.

228
00:15:31,880 --> 00:15:40,120
Speaker 7: Justice Buenodiyas by Mosaicio.

229
00:15:44,560 --> 00:15:49,560
Speaker 2: Finally, on November twenty eight, twenty twelve, the trial begins.

230
00:15:49,800 --> 00:15:56,160
Speaker 3: And there they were, sitting side by side, sixty eight

231
00:15:56,360 --> 00:16:00,880
Speaker 3: people accused, a chain that started with us tie and

232
00:16:01,240 --> 00:16:05,920
Speaker 3: ended with the Pilots Ru, the Saint George and the Agustino,

233
00:16:06,080 --> 00:16:10,840
Speaker 3: and went straight to Altigre Acosta. Every single one of

234
00:16:10,920 --> 00:16:14,480
Speaker 3: those sixty eight had done their part to complete this

235
00:16:14,640 --> 00:16:17,440
Speaker 3: horrifying mission successfully.

236
00:16:18,800 --> 00:16:20,640
Speaker 9: Pedro Santa Maria Antonio Anyek.

237
00:16:21,120 --> 00:16:24,560
Speaker 2: Inside the courtroom, the glass wall divides the accused from

238
00:16:24,600 --> 00:16:28,560
Speaker 2: the crowd, including relatives of the victims. The accused sit

239
00:16:28,640 --> 00:16:31,880
Speaker 2: with their defenders in a row just feet away. The

240
00:16:31,960 --> 00:16:35,760
Speaker 2: three judges take the bench. One speaks into a thin

241
00:16:35,880 --> 00:16:40,720
Speaker 2: black microphone and starts the proceedings, and Rigapinto sits among

242
00:16:40,800 --> 00:16:44,640
Speaker 2: the crowd quietly in a corner. He had been instrumental

243
00:16:44,840 --> 00:16:49,120
Speaker 2: in validating Medium and Gian Carlo's findings, but today. He

244
00:16:49,280 --> 00:16:51,040
Speaker 2: just wants to be there and Seattle.

245
00:16:51,960 --> 00:16:54,160
Speaker 4: As soon as the judges entered the room, I got

246
00:16:54,160 --> 00:16:57,280
Speaker 4: a feeling that this could really lead to something good.

247
00:17:03,200 --> 00:17:07,400
Speaker 2: The hearings go on for months. Then it's Medium's turn

248
00:17:07,560 --> 00:17:12,280
Speaker 2: to testify. She sits near the prosecutors and the judges.

249
00:17:12,840 --> 00:17:14,960
Speaker 2: The lawyers of the pilots are there, but the pilots

250
00:17:15,000 --> 00:17:18,720
Speaker 2: themselves watch from a screen inside prison. They'd been given

251
00:17:18,720 --> 00:17:20,560
Speaker 2: the choice whether or not to be there.

252
00:17:21,440 --> 00:17:25,040
Speaker 3: It was such a shame. I would have loved to

253
00:17:25,160 --> 00:17:30,400
Speaker 3: see their faces, but the pilots were following everything from prison.

254
00:17:31,440 --> 00:17:35,320
Speaker 2: Medium walks up to the stand, sits down and begins

255
00:17:35,359 --> 00:17:39,199
Speaker 2: telling her story. Is Timonio the Medium?

256
00:17:39,280 --> 00:17:39,480
Speaker 11: Yes.

257
00:17:44,119 --> 00:17:48,520
Speaker 2: Mercedes says that Medium's account her investigation were essential to

258
00:17:48,600 --> 00:17:51,480
Speaker 2: the larger argument to bring those who took part in

259
00:17:51,520 --> 00:17:57,080
Speaker 2: the death flights to justice. The hearings go on for

260
00:17:57,119 --> 00:18:01,760
Speaker 2: another two years. The prosecutor has nearly eight hundred testimonies

261
00:18:01,960 --> 00:18:06,360
Speaker 2: against the sixty eight accused, including the three pilots. By

262
00:18:06,400 --> 00:18:10,640
Speaker 2: then many were elderly. Fourteen died of natural causes during

263
00:18:10,680 --> 00:18:14,560
Speaker 2: those two years, so now there are only fifty four

264
00:18:14,600 --> 00:18:19,919
Speaker 2: defendants left. At the end, the prosecution demanded life sentences

265
00:18:19,960 --> 00:18:21,000
Speaker 2: for all the accused.

266
00:18:21,600 --> 00:18:25,760
Speaker 3: The Saint George died mid trial, so that day only

267
00:18:25,800 --> 00:18:29,240
Speaker 3: two of the three identified pilots were there, Aru and

268
00:18:29,359 --> 00:18:30,120
Speaker 3: di Agostino.

269
00:18:30,560 --> 00:18:35,080
Speaker 2: In November twenty seventeen, the judges finally hand down sentences

270
00:18:35,080 --> 00:18:38,280
Speaker 2: for the pilots, along with others who participated in the

271
00:18:38,280 --> 00:18:40,840
Speaker 2: flights and the asthma operations.

272
00:18:45,640 --> 00:18:48,439
Speaker 11: Dozens of people gathered outside this court house in Buenos

273
00:18:48,480 --> 00:18:52,400
Speaker 11: Aires to hear the sentences against fifty four former members

274
00:18:52,440 --> 00:18:57,119
Speaker 11: of security forces, among them Alfredo Atis, known as the

275
00:18:57,160 --> 00:19:01,159
Speaker 11: Angel of Death, who infiltrated human rights and had some

276
00:19:01,240 --> 00:19:02,280
Speaker 11: of their members killed.

277
00:19:03,240 --> 00:19:07,159
Speaker 3: The sentencing could legitimize all the work Giancarlo and I

278
00:19:07,200 --> 00:19:11,439
Speaker 3: put into the investigation. The press was spreading rumors that

279
00:19:11,480 --> 00:19:15,480
Speaker 3: the pilots wouldn't be convicted, that there wasn't enough evidence.

280
00:19:18,960 --> 00:19:24,520
Speaker 7: Tura alberedicto filmato oral.

281
00:19:25,400 --> 00:19:32,119
Speaker 2: In court, everyone is in place, witnesses, lawyers, prosecutors behind

282
00:19:32,200 --> 00:19:35,280
Speaker 2: them in the glass wall, medium and the relatives of

283
00:19:35,320 --> 00:19:39,679
Speaker 2: the victims holding pictures of the disappeared. The defendants are

284
00:19:39,760 --> 00:19:42,760
Speaker 2: huddled together on one side of the room. Many are

285
00:19:42,760 --> 00:19:47,560
Speaker 2: well past their seventies. Alfredostie, the blonde angel, more like

286
00:19:47,760 --> 00:19:50,800
Speaker 2: a gray haired Angel now is sitting wearing a suit

287
00:19:50,880 --> 00:19:55,040
Speaker 2: with an Argentine flagpen. He looks pensive. To his right

288
00:19:55,280 --> 00:20:00,520
Speaker 2: is Altigra Costa. He looks skinny, tired. He's wearing glasses

289
00:20:00,600 --> 00:20:04,439
Speaker 2: in a blue zipped up jacket. To Astis's left is

290
00:20:04,520 --> 00:20:08,680
Speaker 2: Mario Ru, one of the Skyban pilots. He's wearing jeans

291
00:20:08,960 --> 00:20:11,880
Speaker 2: at tucked in shirt. He leans back in his chair

292
00:20:11,920 --> 00:20:14,359
Speaker 2: with his arms crossed, as if he were watching a play.

293
00:20:19,160 --> 00:20:22,719
Speaker 2: The judge sentences Ru to life in prison for the

294
00:20:22,760 --> 00:20:26,280
Speaker 2: death of the nuns and the mothers, and his face

295
00:20:26,560 --> 00:20:32,639
Speaker 2: changes completely. He looks surprised, tense, angry. He shakes his

296
00:20:32,720 --> 00:20:36,360
Speaker 2: head in denial, covers his mouth with his left hand.

297
00:20:37,040 --> 00:20:40,680
Speaker 2: The judge continues, ordering a life sentence for the other

298
00:20:40,720 --> 00:20:49,000
Speaker 2: living pilot, Alejandro Domingo di Austina. Finally, Astis in Acosta,

299
00:20:49,520 --> 00:20:54,480
Speaker 2: the blonde Angel, and Altigre Medium's captors were given additional

300
00:20:54,520 --> 00:21:04,400
Speaker 2: life sentences. Are Astis. He denied wrongdoing until the very

301
00:21:04,520 --> 00:21:11,840
Speaker 2: end was important. In one of his previous closing statements,

302
00:21:12,160 --> 00:21:16,080
Speaker 2: he said, quote, I will never apologize for defending my

303
00:21:16,160 --> 00:21:27,800
Speaker 2: country end quote. A decade had passed since Medium met

304
00:21:27,840 --> 00:21:31,159
Speaker 2: giancadlo at that cafe for the first time when she

305
00:21:31,240 --> 00:21:36,560
Speaker 2: found him bizarre, impudent, but also charming. A decade since

306
00:21:36,600 --> 00:21:40,840
Speaker 2: their first dinners and shared cigarettes, and since Giancarlo convinced

307
00:21:40,840 --> 00:21:45,960
Speaker 2: Medium that this was a story worth pursuing. Now they

308
00:21:46,119 --> 00:21:48,880
Speaker 2: finally helped bring the pilots of the Death Flights and

309
00:21:48,960 --> 00:21:52,400
Speaker 2: some of Argentina's most powerful Junta members to justice.

310
00:21:52,880 --> 00:21:58,080
Speaker 3: I was sad when the sentencing began. Giancarlo couldn't make it.

311
00:21:58,359 --> 00:22:01,680
Speaker 3: He was in Havana for world But when they read

312
00:22:01,760 --> 00:22:05,200
Speaker 3: the sentencing, I was sitting next to the daughters of

313
00:22:05,400 --> 00:22:08,240
Speaker 3: some of the mothers that had been killed on the

314
00:22:08,280 --> 00:22:13,600
Speaker 3: sky van, and being around them in that moment it

315
00:22:13,720 --> 00:22:17,400
Speaker 3: felt special. It was like some form of healing.

316
00:22:18,240 --> 00:22:20,680
Speaker 9: I remember Miriam calling me the day of the sentencing.

317
00:22:21,040 --> 00:22:24,480
Speaker 9: She was ecstatic, she was yelling, And after that I

318
00:22:24,560 --> 00:22:28,000
Speaker 9: went on a long walk. I had decided to be

319
00:22:28,119 --> 00:22:31,440
Speaker 9: here instead of in the court. I didn't want to

320
00:22:31,480 --> 00:22:35,240
Speaker 9: take pictures of caged animals, so to speak. I felt

321
00:22:35,240 --> 00:22:38,560
Speaker 9: happy about the sentence, of course, but I also felt

322
00:22:38,600 --> 00:22:40,720
Speaker 9: happy about my decision to take it all in from

323
00:22:40,760 --> 00:22:48,240
Speaker 9: Afar alone.

324
00:22:48,440 --> 00:22:51,680
Speaker 2: Forty five years have passed since Medium was held captive

325
00:22:51,720 --> 00:22:58,000
Speaker 2: inside ESMA the Mechanics school. It's spring twenty twenty one

326
00:22:58,080 --> 00:23:01,320
Speaker 2: and Medium is invited to ESMA to receive an award

327
00:23:01,600 --> 00:23:06,639
Speaker 2: along with other survivors. Now this former clandestine torture site

328
00:23:06,760 --> 00:23:11,000
Speaker 2: is a place of remembrance, transformed into a museum. The

329
00:23:11,080 --> 00:23:15,000
Speaker 2: hope is that Argentina never forgets this horrific history and

330
00:23:15,119 --> 00:23:17,080
Speaker 2: what went on inside those walls.

331
00:23:18,560 --> 00:23:20,639
Speaker 3: That idea sits well with me.

332
00:23:22,200 --> 00:23:26,639
Speaker 2: The Esthma now opens its doors to cultural events, music shows,

333
00:23:27,240 --> 00:23:30,280
Speaker 2: and they've purposely left the holding cells and the facilities

334
00:23:30,400 --> 00:23:33,560
Speaker 2: intact the way they looked during the dictatorship.

335
00:23:34,560 --> 00:23:40,480
Speaker 3: I always get a very particular horrible energy here. You

336
00:23:40,560 --> 00:23:41,520
Speaker 3: can feel it.

337
00:23:44,160 --> 00:23:46,960
Speaker 2: She walks past the place where officers would spend time.

338
00:23:47,640 --> 00:23:50,760
Speaker 2: She sees the torture rooms, the cells, in the room

339
00:23:50,920 --> 00:23:55,760
Speaker 2: where most new prisoners slept on old mattresses, no ventilation.

340
00:23:56,560 --> 00:24:07,200
Speaker 3: The walls are dilapidated. Can smell the humidity.

341
00:24:08,480 --> 00:24:11,800
Speaker 2: Last year I drove by Esthma. It was my first

342
00:24:11,800 --> 00:24:14,439
Speaker 2: time seeing it as an adult. I was in a

343
00:24:14,480 --> 00:24:16,920
Speaker 2: cab to visit the house where I grew up, where

344
00:24:16,920 --> 00:24:20,160
Speaker 2: my grandfather told me at age nine, how people had

345
00:24:20,200 --> 00:24:23,840
Speaker 2: been thrown from planes into the sea. I'd been reading

346
00:24:23,840 --> 00:24:26,880
Speaker 2: a lot about Medium's survival. I looked at the front

347
00:24:26,880 --> 00:24:30,840
Speaker 2: of the building, at stately white pillars. I could almost

348
00:24:30,920 --> 00:24:33,399
Speaker 2: hear the screams coming through the walls of the torture

349
00:24:33,480 --> 00:24:39,720
Speaker 2: chambers echoing through the hallways. I felt shame, anger, sadness,

350
00:24:40,320 --> 00:24:43,719
Speaker 2: confusion about how humans were capable of doing such things

351
00:24:43,960 --> 00:24:46,719
Speaker 2: in the name of law and order, and how an

352
00:24:46,920 --> 00:24:50,679
Speaker 2: entire country blindly celebrated a World Cup while Medium and

353
00:24:50,760 --> 00:25:00,639
Speaker 2: thousands of others Abaracidos suffered from a mile away massa.

354
00:25:00,720 --> 00:25:05,200
Speaker 2: While researching the Dictatorship, I went through hours of archival footage,

355
00:25:05,359 --> 00:25:08,879
Speaker 2: dozens of speeches by General Videla talking about his religious

356
00:25:09,000 --> 00:25:15,000
Speaker 2: nationalist reorganization process, which he used to justify murder. During

357
00:25:15,040 --> 00:25:18,080
Speaker 2: that research, I also came across a ton of comments

358
00:25:18,119 --> 00:25:23,000
Speaker 2: from regular people Argentines responding to those old videos, praising

359
00:25:23,200 --> 00:25:27,840
Speaker 2: this brutal dictator. Hail to my General Videla. Some would

360
00:25:27,840 --> 00:25:32,000
Speaker 2: say the country needs you, or what a shame there

361
00:25:32,080 --> 00:25:36,720
Speaker 2: isn't another Videla in twenty twenty one. Thank you General.

362
00:25:42,160 --> 00:25:46,280
Speaker 2: The dictatorship ended four decades ago, but who can guarantee

363
00:25:46,359 --> 00:25:50,800
Speaker 2: that this won't happen again. Medium witnessed the decay of

364
00:25:50,920 --> 00:25:56,400
Speaker 2: Argentina's democracy, her survival, her determination to avenge the crimes,

365
00:25:56,800 --> 00:25:59,399
Speaker 2: show me that there can be a path to some

366
00:25:59,760 --> 00:26:07,560
Speaker 2: form of justice. In twenty seventeen, Medium flew to Milan

367
00:26:07,760 --> 00:26:09,280
Speaker 2: for the lunch of gian Carlo's book.

368
00:26:10,160 --> 00:26:13,359
Speaker 3: One afternoon, on the way back to Rome, we stopped

369
00:26:13,400 --> 00:26:16,879
Speaker 3: at a small, medieval looking town. We walked around the

370
00:26:16,920 --> 00:26:20,640
Speaker 3: main square, visited a small church, and then we sat

371
00:26:20,680 --> 00:26:22,359
Speaker 3: somewhere to watch the sunset.

372
00:26:23,200 --> 00:26:26,120
Speaker 9: I asked her if she remembered the conversation we had

373
00:26:26,160 --> 00:26:29,760
Speaker 9: at the bar at the beginning of our investigation about

374
00:26:29,760 --> 00:26:33,240
Speaker 9: the captivity that horrible time. She started crying and asked

375
00:26:33,240 --> 00:26:34,639
Speaker 9: me why am I alive?

376
00:26:35,200 --> 00:26:35,960
Speaker 2: I should have died.

377
00:26:36,560 --> 00:26:40,080
Speaker 9: She couldn't stop crying. It was her guilt for surviving.

378
00:26:40,640 --> 00:26:44,200
Speaker 9: For me, it was my job I had this natural distance,

379
00:26:44,640 --> 00:26:47,439
Speaker 9: But for her it was much more than that. It

380
00:26:47,520 --> 00:26:51,000
Speaker 9: was about finding a reason that justified her being alive.

381
00:26:51,200 --> 00:26:57,600
Speaker 2: Today, Medium stays quiet thinking. She reminds him how during

382
00:26:57,640 --> 00:27:00,359
Speaker 2: that first meeting she thought he was so rude with

383
00:27:00,440 --> 00:27:01,840
Speaker 2: these intrusive questions.

384
00:27:02,359 --> 00:27:06,720
Speaker 3: Without Giancarlo, we would have never started the investigation in

385
00:27:06,760 --> 00:27:07,560
Speaker 3: the first place.

386
00:27:14,480 --> 00:27:18,800
Speaker 2: Today, Medium continues testifying in human rights cases in Argentina.

387
00:27:19,320 --> 00:27:23,120
Speaker 2: She's also still investigating crimes committed by the dictatorship.

388
00:27:23,640 --> 00:27:28,199
Speaker 3: It's my responsibility. This is how things played out for me.

389
00:27:29,080 --> 00:27:32,280
Speaker 3: If they had killed me, there would have been no

390
00:27:32,400 --> 00:27:37,840
Speaker 3: witness to help put these criminals in prison. Later, Sometimes,

391
00:27:38,160 --> 00:27:42,280
Speaker 3: when guilt starts taking hold of me, I still ask myself,

392
00:27:43,119 --> 00:27:47,479
Speaker 3: why did I survive. I'll probably never find out why,

393
00:27:47,480 --> 00:27:51,600
Speaker 3: but if I had to answer, I'd say it was

394
00:27:51,640 --> 00:27:54,639
Speaker 3: to bring at least some of those pilots of the

395
00:27:54,680 --> 00:27:58,800
Speaker 3: death flights to justice. I was able to help ensure

396
00:27:58,840 --> 00:28:03,160
Speaker 3: that these pilots wouldn't die with impunity, and that alone

397
00:28:03,800 --> 00:28:04,679
Speaker 3: gives me peace.

398
00:28:17,600 --> 00:28:21,800
Speaker 2: Nearly fifty years have passed since Argentina's military cup. The

399
00:28:21,960 --> 00:28:24,960
Speaker 2: Argentine junta never kept records of the people they targeted

400
00:28:25,080 --> 00:28:28,640
Speaker 2: or murdered, which makes it difficult to quantify the number

401
00:28:28,640 --> 00:28:33,280
Speaker 2: of disappeared without running the risk of leaving many people out. Today,

402
00:28:33,640 --> 00:28:36,840
Speaker 2: there are still disappearances that haven't even been reported. Some

403
00:28:37,000 --> 00:28:40,280
Speaker 2: human rights groups and media sources estimate that the disappeared

404
00:28:40,400 --> 00:28:44,680
Speaker 2: polarizing topic. What we do know are the countless stories

405
00:28:44,680 --> 00:28:48,800
Speaker 2: and testimonies from witnesses and survivors that the killings were

406
00:28:48,840 --> 00:28:53,920
Speaker 2: systematic and they impacted an entire country. More than one

407
00:28:53,960 --> 00:28:58,280
Speaker 2: thousand people have been sentenced for Junta related crimes. Mario

408
00:28:58,320 --> 00:29:01,760
Speaker 2: Danila Rue, the first convey to pilot, died under house

409
00:29:01,840 --> 00:29:06,160
Speaker 2: arrest in twenty twenty two. Alejandro Domingo di Agustino is

410
00:29:06,200 --> 00:29:11,160
Speaker 2: still serving his sentence, also under house arrest. Alol Fosilingo,

411
00:29:11,480 --> 00:29:14,160
Speaker 2: the guy who confessed about his role in the death flights,

412
00:29:14,520 --> 00:29:17,160
Speaker 2: was sentenced while in Spain to more than a thousand

413
00:29:17,320 --> 00:29:21,640
Speaker 2: years in prison. Navy Admiral Emilia Massera, the top boss

414
00:29:21,720 --> 00:29:24,800
Speaker 2: overseeing ESMA, whom Medium had been forced to work for,

415
00:29:25,280 --> 00:29:28,400
Speaker 2: was considered too ill and see now to be prosecuted

416
00:29:28,440 --> 00:29:31,800
Speaker 2: for his crimes. He died in twenty ten and was

417
00:29:31,840 --> 00:29:39,600
Speaker 2: buried quickly and in secret to avoid protests from Orbit media.

418
00:29:40,040 --> 00:29:45,200
Speaker 2: This is Avenger, the story of Medium Lewin. I'm your

419
00:29:45,240 --> 00:29:49,600
Speaker 2: host and senior producer Andresca Acheedo. The series was produced

420
00:29:49,640 --> 00:29:54,719
Speaker 2: by Essequielrodrie Sandino and edited by Monica Campbell. Original score

421
00:29:54,920 --> 00:29:59,719
Speaker 2: Nicolas Pachella, mixing in mastering Christopher Hoff and Austin Smith.

422
00:30:00,240 --> 00:30:06,560
Speaker 2: Assistant producers Andres Feschtenholz and Eleana Gillespi. FactCheck Alejandro Marinelli

423
00:30:06,600 --> 00:30:11,840
Speaker 2: and leonardos Canone Legal review, Neil Rossini, casting director Paula

424
00:30:11,880 --> 00:30:16,280
Speaker 2: Gammon Wilson. The executive producers from Orbit Media are Steve

425
00:30:16,320 --> 00:30:21,680
Speaker 2: Fishman Fisher, Stevens, Marci Wiseman, and Katie Springer. The voice

426
00:30:21,680 --> 00:30:26,760
Speaker 2: actors in Avenger include Alexis Blodel as Medium, Lewin Fulvio

427
00:30:26,760 --> 00:30:31,360
Speaker 2: de la Volta as Giancarlo Serraudo, Gonzalo Vargas as Enrique Pinedo,

428
00:30:31,840 --> 00:30:36,800
Speaker 2: Edgardo Manono Castro as Bruno Vain, and Tom Schubert as Carlos, Marco,

429
00:30:36,840 --> 00:30:42,520
Speaker 2: Somiliana and Gustavo. This podcast was produced in association with Sonoto.

430
00:30:42,840 --> 00:30:47,760
Speaker 2: The Sonodo executive producers are Camilla Victoriano, Joshua Weinstein, and

431
00:30:47,840 --> 00:30:51,360
Speaker 2: Jasmine Romeo. The rest of the Sonodo production team includes

432
00:30:51,680 --> 00:30:57,800
Speaker 2: Senior producer Carmen Grattol, editor Rodrigo Crespo, Producer Paloma Navarro, Nicoletti,

433
00:30:58,120 --> 00:31:03,280
Speaker 2: Evelyn Uribe, Mariana Corono, el Sara Mota, Manuel Barra, Hannah

434
00:31:03,320 --> 00:31:08,000
Speaker 2: Bottom and Tasha Sandoval. Special thanks to Radio and Casa

435
00:31:08,200 --> 00:31:12,280
Speaker 2: and Pomerak Recording Studios in Buenos Aires, and to Medium

436
00:31:12,360 --> 00:31:15,600
Speaker 2: Lewin and Giancarlo Siraudo for letting us tell their story.

437
00:31:16,040 --> 00:31:16,920
Speaker 2: Thank you for listening.

438
00:31:33,160 --> 00:31:36,760
Speaker 1: A quick word about subscriptions. If you love ads, listen on.

439
00:31:37,400 --> 00:31:39,920
Speaker 1: If you're not so keen on ads, sign up for

440
00:31:40,000 --> 00:31:45,200
Speaker 1: True Crime Clubhouse on Apple Podcasts no ads, and also

441
00:31:45,800 --> 00:31:50,120
Speaker 1: binge Ability. You can hear the entire Avenger series all

442
00:31:50,160 --> 00:31:52,720
Speaker 1: at once. It's just two ninety nine a month.