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Speaker 1: Since we first covered the case of Gary ben Loss

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Speaker 1: back in October of twenty twenty two, there have been

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Speaker 1: some really exciting developments. Together with Gary's legal team and

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Speaker 1: other advocates, we've been able to convince the Brooklyn DA's

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Speaker 1: office to ask a judge to resence him from twenty

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Speaker 1: five to life to twenty two to life, making him

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Speaker 1: immediately eligible for parole. And they did this on the

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Speaker 1: grounds of compassion, his amazing track record in prison, various

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Speaker 1: advanced degrees, you know, being a leader in the Choices Program,

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Speaker 1: Honor Block of literally an absolute star, and they acknowledged

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Speaker 1: that Gary doesn't represent a threat to society. He never did.

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Speaker 1: So the whole team remains committed to clearing his name.

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Speaker 1: But in the meantime, Gary was released yesterday, November twentieth,

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Speaker 1: twenty twenty four, and it was beautiful, well.

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Speaker 2: Damn blind luck.

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Speaker 1: That feeling never gets old. So Gary, best of luck

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Speaker 1: as you continue to fight to clear your name. And

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Speaker 1: now please check out our original coverage of the insane

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Speaker 1: case of Gary ben Loss. On April tenth, two thousand

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Speaker 1: and two, on Linden Boulevard in the Flatbush section of Brooklyn,

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Speaker 1: a man named Victor Vulcan was shot and killed in

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Speaker 1: broad daylight just after school had let out. Fortunately, no

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Speaker 1: one else was heard as people ran to their buildings

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Speaker 1: for cover, including a young father named Gary ben Loss

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Speaker 1: who had had prior run ins with the police. Nine

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Speaker 1: one one callers and eyewitnesses described the shooter with short hair,

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Speaker 1: dark skin, and a similar build to the victim, who

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Speaker 1: was five ten and one hundred and sixty eight pounds. However,

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Speaker 1: one alleged witness, Anthony Holder, who did not give a

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Speaker 1: description of the shooter, set among other falsehoods, that the

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Speaker 1: saleen's nickname was Chucky. Gary Benloss was known as Chucky,

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Speaker 1: but he was over six three and two hundred and

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Speaker 1: fifty pounds with a seven inch high afro. A photo

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Speaker 1: of a much younger and slimmer Gary with short hair

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Speaker 1: was put into a photo array, eliciting identification from Anthony

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Speaker 1: Holder and one other witness. However, once that other witness

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Speaker 1: saw Gary a trial, she too joined all the other

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Speaker 1: witnesses in denying Gary's involvement. Holders pending charges for which

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Speaker 1: it is believed that he received leniency in exchange for cooperation,

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Speaker 1: were hidden by the state, and somehow the jury believed

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Speaker 1: his bizarre testimony that included a non existent second victim,

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Speaker 1: sending Gary away for twenty five to life. This is

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Speaker 1: wrongful conviction. Welcome back to conviction. Today, we have a

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Speaker 1: Brooklyn case dating back to two thousand and two in

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Speaker 1: which several witnesses described a gunman that looked wildly different

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Speaker 1: from our guest today, Gary Benlass, a guy that I

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Speaker 1: came to know through my friendship with a previous guest

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Speaker 1: on our show, John Adrian Velasquez. Now Gary is joining

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Speaker 1: us from sing Sing and I'm glad you're here with us,

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Speaker 1: even though I hate the reason why you're here. But Gary,

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Speaker 1: welcome to the show. Thank you, You're very welcome. And

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Speaker 1: with him is a man whose voice she'll probably recognize

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Speaker 1: from other appearances here with us where he's been advocating

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Speaker 1: for Nelson Cruz, Marcus Wiggins, Vincent Simmons, and so many more.

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Speaker 1: Justin bonus, welcome back.

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Speaker 3: It's great to be back on the show. Appreciate it

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Speaker 3: all right.

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Speaker 1: So, Gary, before we get into the reason why we're

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Speaker 1: here today, can you tell us a little bit about

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Speaker 1: your life growing up.

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Speaker 2: I was born July twenty sixth, nineteen eighty to a

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Speaker 2: proud single mother, who migrated from the rural country area

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Speaker 2: of Jamaica, West Indies, moved to America where she resided

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Speaker 2: in Flatbush, Brooklyn.

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Speaker 1: And your nickname was Chucky, right, how I mean, where

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Speaker 1: does that come from?

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Speaker 2: At the age of nine, I received the nickname Chuckles.

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Speaker 2: Being poor no farther around at school, kids could be

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Speaker 2: very cruel. So as a defense mechanism, I was one

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Speaker 2: of those kids who used to always like to joke

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Speaker 2: and laugh. That's how I got the moniker Chuckles. Always

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Speaker 2: had people laughing, always.

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Speaker 1: Joking, and that nickname ended up playing a part in

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Speaker 1: your wrongful conviction. But before all of that, in the

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Speaker 1: summer of nineteen ninety six, you had your first encounter

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Speaker 1: with one of the detectives on this case, Robert Reedy.

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Speaker 2: He knows me because on my fifteenth birthday I was

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Speaker 2: jump assaulted and hospitalized. He was actually the detective on

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Speaker 2: the case, and he wanted not just for me, you know,

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Speaker 2: to snitch on the guys that hospitalized me, but he

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Speaker 2: wanted me to become a neighborhood snatch. So the case

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Speaker 2: against those who are sawed me never went to court,

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Speaker 2: and I never became this snitch for a detective reading,

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Speaker 2: I said, it's not happening.

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Speaker 1: Right, So you refused to help Ready. And then the

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Speaker 1: following spring you ran into some more trouble, but this

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Speaker 1: time you were the assailant.

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Speaker 2: At the age of sixteen March of nineteen ninety seven,

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Speaker 2: I made a very foolish mistake, but I'm not proud.

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Speaker 2: It was a lesson that I needed to learn. So,

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Speaker 2: because of growing up being poor, I followed a friend

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Speaker 2: of mine into a pizzeria to rob the pizzeria. I

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Speaker 2: took full responsibility, and I cocked out to one to

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Speaker 2: three years right. And I've been haunted by the NYPD

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Speaker 2: ever since.

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Speaker 1: And I'd like the audience to take note here when

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Speaker 1: guilty people usually take plea deals it makes sense. I mean, hell,

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Speaker 1: even innocent people take plea deals if it makes more sense,

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Speaker 1: which it often does than fighting the charges, like our

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Speaker 1: friend Deeter te Hata. So you did a few years

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Speaker 1: as a juvenile in a men's prison, paid your debt

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Speaker 1: to society, and after your release, you moved back in

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Speaker 1: with your mother at two eighteen Linden Boulevard and Flat Push,

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Speaker 1: where you remained on the NYPD's radar leading up to

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Speaker 1: this crime. In two thousand and two. But before we

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Speaker 1: get into all those details, justin we've seen this kind

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Speaker 1: of thing before more than once, where the cops just

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Speaker 1: crab a guy with a record, whether they did a

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Speaker 1: crime or not. And as our listeners will surely recognize, Brooklyn,

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Speaker 1: especially in the eighties, nineties and into the two thousands,

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Speaker 1: was fraught with wrongful conviction cases and issues like I

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Speaker 1: wouldn't submits identification, coerced and incentifized witnesses who made misidentifications,

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Speaker 1: sometimes knowingly by the way, and of course crazily corrupted

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Speaker 1: identification procedures. And in this case we have all the

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Speaker 1: those factors. And at the helm of the investigation we

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Speaker 1: had detectives Robert Reedy and John mcgerrin, as well as

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Speaker 1: King's County assistant DA Kyle Reeves. And I feel like

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Speaker 1: I've heard his name before, Kyle Reeves, right.

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Speaker 3: Yes, absolutely, Jabbar Washington. I believe Jabbar was exonerated in

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Speaker 3: twenty eighteen. Kyle Reeves in that case had withheld Brady evidence,

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Speaker 3: put witnesses on the stand that testified falsely. Then Reeves

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Speaker 3: pushed forward with prosecuting someone for murder. I believe it

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Speaker 3: was a fight of some sort, and it turned out

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Speaker 3: that the mother of the victim actually sued the hospital

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Speaker 3: for medical malpractice, wrongful death, that the hospital caused the death.

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Speaker 3: I know that he had some issues. He left the

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Speaker 3: DA's office in Brooklyn and he went to Staten Island,

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Speaker 3: and I know he had some issues in Staten Island

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Speaker 3: with witnesses and then left. And now he's in private practice.

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Speaker 3: So he has a history of prosecuting cases that he

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Speaker 3: shouldn't and two not turning over exculpatory material.

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Speaker 1: I mean, I'd like to point out prior misconduct just

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Speaker 1: to give the audience an idea of who we were

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Speaker 1: dealing with. But to be fair, Reeves doesn't really sound

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Speaker 1: like an outlier. Knowingly prosecuting innocent people and heidek exculpatory

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Speaker 1: evidence to make it stick. Sounds like the usual playbook.

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Speaker 2: In New York.

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Speaker 3: It's a little different because it's a lot harder to

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Speaker 3: catch them, and he's been caught. New York is different

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Speaker 3: in that there's usually no forensic investigation, no paper right,

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Speaker 3: no paper trail, whereas a lot of other places there's

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Speaker 3: a lot of paper here. These are very short, choppy statements.

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Speaker 3: The police don't write as much down and then prosecutors

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Speaker 3: even when the case falls apart, they are able to

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Speaker 3: hang their hat on somebody like Anthony Holder, who's the

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Speaker 3: only witness that testified at trial, A Garribbin Lost committed

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Speaker 3: this murder.

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Speaker 1: And we're going to talk a lot more about this

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Speaker 1: alleged eyewitness, Anthony Holder. And I say alleged because his

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Speaker 1: description of the crime conflicted with both real and with

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Speaker 1: every other eyewitness. All of them corroborated each other, and

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Speaker 1: none of them described or ultimately identified Gary in person. Now,

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Speaker 1: Anthony Holder was a building super right who were intended

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Speaker 1: on Gary's block, and he's the guy who's credited with

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Speaker 1: throwing Gary's nickname Chucky to the cops right into the

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Speaker 1: mix after the crime. Gary, did you know this guy Holder?

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Speaker 2: So, Anthony Holder is the super of I believe two

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Speaker 2: of the buildings on land them Boulevard across the street

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Speaker 2: from mine. So I didn't live there, but my friends did,

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Speaker 2: so I'm visiting them. Anthony Holder never used to like

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Speaker 2: when my friends and I will hang out on the stool,

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Speaker 2: so in the courtyards of the building, it wasn't like

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Speaker 2: we was causing any disruption being disrespectful.

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Speaker 1: Okay, So he didn't like you, but he didn't have

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Speaker 1: a real beef with you, but maybe he didn't care

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Speaker 1: if he used you to stay at a prison. That's

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Speaker 1: what it seems like to me. As it becomes clear

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Speaker 1: much later, holder had some pending charges for which he

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Speaker 1: likedly received leniency for his testimony in this case, but

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Speaker 1: a trial. That deal was when you've heard this before,

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Speaker 1: that deal was hidden by assistant DA Kyle Reeves. And

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Speaker 1: now here we are, so let's get to the clime itself.

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Speaker 1: This was April tenth, two thousand and two, a sunny

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Speaker 1: spring day, on Linden Boulevard in Flatbush, Brooklyn. Now this

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Speaker 1: is a broad street with an east and westbound side,

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Speaker 1: a turning lane down the middle street, parking on either side,

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Speaker 1: so about five lanes of cars wide if you can

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Speaker 1: picture that. And there are apartment buildings on either side,

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Speaker 1: so tons of people in the area. It's a bustling

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Speaker 1: street scene. And the shooting happened in front of two

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Speaker 1: oh one Linden Boulevard where you lived, across the street

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Speaker 1: and down the block at number two eighteen.

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Speaker 2: So it's about three and afternoon, the weather extremely nice,

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Speaker 2: the blocks are extremely extremely busy, people are out enjoy

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Speaker 2: the weather. School is Latin out. As I am approaching

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Speaker 2: my building, the first blood shot right now, and that's

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Speaker 2: when I started seeing everybody starting to run, and I

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Speaker 2: ran right into my building.

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Speaker 1: And according to corroborating eyewitness accounts, two men, the victim

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Speaker 1: in this case, Victor Vulcan, and the shooter got into

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Speaker 1: an argument. Welcome was shot four or five times, and

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Speaker 1: then a mail carrier woman named Letim and Boten gave

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Speaker 1: police a description, as did another woman named Paula Edgehill,

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Speaker 1: who called nine one one and spoke to a dispatcher.

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Speaker 3: So you had let him in Bolton, who's the mail carrier?

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Speaker 3: And the nine one one callers, who described the shooter

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Speaker 3: as a dark skin five foot eight, short hair let

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Speaker 3: him in. Boden actually, in a statement to police, described

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Speaker 3: the shooter as similarly built to the victim in the case.

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Speaker 1: Now, the victim, Victor Vulcan, was one hundred and sixty

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Speaker 1: eight pounds, so the nine one one caller and Boten's

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Speaker 1: accounts corroborated each other. Now, Gary, what did you look

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Speaker 1: like at this time?

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Speaker 2: I was about six three, two forty years and I

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Speaker 2: had a very large afro and I'm light skinned.

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Speaker 3: No one describes the afro. That's the other major major issue.

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Speaker 1: I mean, was this like a close cropped afro? How

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Speaker 1: much volume are we talking about here?

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Speaker 2: It would have to be roughly sixty seven inches.

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Speaker 1: Okay, so that's a remarkable haird Like, I mean, people

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Speaker 1: aren't going to miss a seven inch i afro. But unfortunately,

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Speaker 1: this giant discrepancy didn't seem to matter to Anthony Holder

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Speaker 1: or the detectives, and later didn't matter either to the

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Speaker 1: prosecutor in the case. So what did Anthony Holder's statement

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Speaker 1: to police say? This alternate version of events.

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Speaker 3: And Anthony Holder says that Chucky is talking to some girls. Uh,

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Speaker 3: they say, get at him, Chucky. Nobody else describes this,

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Speaker 3: by the way. Then he says that Chucky began to

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Speaker 3: argue with this guy and pulls a gun out of

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Speaker 3: a bag and then shoots the guy. And Anthony Holder

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Speaker 3: he doesn't describe Gary at all, and he never gives

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Speaker 3: a description. So all he does, Anthony Holder is drop

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Speaker 3: a nickname. And the police know the nickname because they're

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Speaker 3: familiar with Gary.

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Speaker 1: And we're not even sure who brought up the nickname first.

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Speaker 1: Perhaps Anthony Holder decided to trade information false information. Let's

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Speaker 1: call it what it is, about a neighborhood guy who

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Speaker 1: he didn't really like in exchange for leniency and his

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Speaker 1: pending charges, or the lead detectives who knew Gary from

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Speaker 1: both previous incidents when he was an assault victim who

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Speaker 1: refused to snitch and then the robbery. Now, of course

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Speaker 1: i'm referring to detectives Robert Reedy and John mcgerrin.

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Speaker 2: It was recently going over the DD fives I've come

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Speaker 2: across John mcgurn's DD five. He says that he was

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Speaker 2: at two eighteen Lyndon Boulevard when he receives information that

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Speaker 2: the shooter is a god by the name of Chuckles.

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Speaker 2: Only people that use the name Chuckles is people that

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Speaker 2: went to elementary school with me. Anthony Holden never said Chuckles.

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Speaker 2: Anthony holder says Chucky. So before John mcgarnan we see

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Speaker 2: any information in regards to the shooter, he was already

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Speaker 2: at two eighteen. The shooting happened at two o one

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Speaker 2: lend Him Boulevard. We have nine to one one calls

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Speaker 2: police reports that says the shooter ran into one eighty

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Speaker 2: Lendon Boulevard. It was never a police call to respond

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Speaker 2: to too eighteen. Why are you at two eighteen? Right?

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Speaker 1: The nine one one call said one eighty Linden Boulevard.

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Speaker 1: But McGurn went straight to your building and claimed to

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Speaker 1: hear that the assailant was named Chuckles, your original nickname

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Speaker 1: that had evolved into Chucky over time.

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Speaker 2: Exactly. Mc gurn's already knew who I was the same

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Speaker 2: way detective really already knew who I was.

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Speaker 1: So this isn't definitive proof, but it certainly looks like

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Speaker 1: they were immediately directing the investigation towards you without cause

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Speaker 1: either way. Your nickname was now part of this investigation.

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Speaker 3: And then they take this and they and they run

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Speaker 3: with it, and they put a photo array together very

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Speaker 3: soon after the shooting. And why the photo array was

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Speaker 3: really important is because the picture of Gary is of

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Speaker 3: when he was I believe eighteen years old. By the

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Speaker 3: time he was twenty one, he was much heavier than

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Speaker 3: he was when he was eighteen. He didn't even look

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Speaker 3: like the same person, and he had short hair when

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Speaker 3: he was eighteen.

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Speaker 1: Oh right, So they showed this misleading photo array with

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Speaker 1: an eighteen year old, slimmer looking Gary importantly with no

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Speaker 1: afro but short hair instead. Right, as the witnesses that

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Speaker 1: initially described the assailant, I mean it's so dirty, it's amazing.

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Speaker 1: And the mail carrier let him in boten looking at

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Speaker 1: this old photograph gave a tepid identification, right, and the

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Speaker 1: incentivized alleged witness, Anthony Holder, gave an idea as well. Now,

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Speaker 1: Anthony Holder also allegedly told him that the shooter had

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Speaker 1: a black duffelback. No other witnesses reported seeing this, and

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Speaker 1: in the continued effort to get to Gary, investigators put

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Speaker 1: pressure on a guy from your building, a guy named

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Speaker 1: Roger Isaac, who at about five eight, dark skinned with

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Speaker 1: short hair, better match the description of the shooter, and

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Speaker 1: so he was snatched up shortly after the shooting.

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Speaker 2: Roger Isaac, I feel the phone, I really do. He's

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Speaker 2: oblivious to what's going on. They jump out on him

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Speaker 2: and say he's being arrested with the murder. They bring

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Speaker 2: him down to the stage in his DD five. He

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Speaker 2: saw me come into the building, throw a bag into

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Speaker 2: department and come right back out.

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Speaker 1: So now they have someone corroborating Holder about you and

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Speaker 1: the alleged black bag. And then Roger Isaac allegedly described

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Speaker 1: you as five foot eight two hundred pounds, but again,

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Speaker 1: you're over six foot three and at least two hundred

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Speaker 1: and forty at the time, and he said nothing about

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Speaker 1: your impressive afro, which is very telling because the only

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Speaker 1: picture that detectives McGurrin and Reedy had at that time

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Speaker 1: was from when you were eighteen years old. It looks

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Speaker 1: like they still thought that you were under two hundred

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Speaker 1: pounds was short hair. So they brought Roger Isaac down

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Speaker 1: to the precinct where he allegedly made this statement implicating

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Speaker 1: you carrying this non existent black Duffel bag. And we're

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Speaker 1: getting ahead of ourselves here, but at trial, this alleged

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Speaker 1: statement from the D five unravels for the prosecution exactly.

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Speaker 2: At trial, assistant this attorney, Kyle Reeves, is trying to

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Speaker 2: have Roger Isaac testify that he saw me run into

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Speaker 2: the building go back into the barment, so he gives

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Speaker 2: them the DD five and that's when the cat is

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Speaker 2: that at the bat he did the DD five. He said,

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Speaker 2: I don't recall saying none of this. He says that

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Speaker 2: he was in a cell and that the police roughed

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Speaker 2: them up, assaulted mister Roger Isaac.

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Speaker 1: It sounds like they might have just written that statement

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Speaker 1: up just for him to sign.

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Speaker 2: There was no signature. This is typed up, and then

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Speaker 2: you have the officer's signature. So there's no Roger Isaac

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Speaker 2: right in and saying I dually swear of this being authentic.

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Speaker 2: There's none of that.

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Speaker 1: So this sham statement in Roger Isaacs DD five blew

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Speaker 1: up in Kyle reaves his face at trial. But in

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Speaker 1: the immediate aftermath of the crime, this same DD five

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Speaker 1: corroborated Anthony Holder. They had already tricked led him in

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Speaker 1: voting into making the ID with that phony baloney photo array.

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Speaker 1: So now they're closing in on you, but you didn't

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Speaker 1: even know it. So let's go back to the immediate

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Speaker 1: after youth shots rang out, you got to safety, and

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Speaker 1: after things calmed down, you went out to handle a

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Speaker 1: few errands before your three month old son and his

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Speaker 1: mother arrived later on from Queen's. Now, at that time,

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Speaker 1: you had gone to a friend's in Bushwick when a

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Speaker 1: neighborhood friend paged you to tell you that the police

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Speaker 1: had raided your apartment.

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Speaker 2: He said, Yo, the police just went into your apartment.

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Speaker 2: So I called my mother. When she goes home, the

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Speaker 2: police are still there. They asked her to sign a

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Speaker 2: consent form to search. They already searched her ready, so

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Speaker 2: now they're using her consent to cover their eyes.

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Speaker 1: So the police legally searched your apartment looking for this

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Speaker 1: alleged black double bag, but they came up empty, and

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Speaker 1: they got your mom to give consent to the search

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Speaker 1: after the fact.

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Speaker 2: So at this time, again, I'm not even aware that

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Speaker 2: someone even died. It wasn't until they I speak to

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Speaker 2: my mother, she says. Detective really gave her. Is called

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Speaker 2: for me to call. He said a guy was shot

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Speaker 2: and killed and they're looking to speak to me about it.

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Speaker 2: I have nothing to hide, so I called him. He said,

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Speaker 2: people are saying that you killed this guy. I said

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Speaker 2: it to him, I don't know what you're talking about.

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Speaker 2: I've just had a son. I have no reason to

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Speaker 2: be out killing anybody. He said, well, you know, let's

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Speaker 2: meet up somewhere. I said, that's not happening. I am

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Speaker 2: not comfortable meeting you guys, and you talking about y'are

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Speaker 2: looking for me because somebody got killed.

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Speaker 1: He said, oh, you know, just n cally change in mind,

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Speaker 1: and this is right. After nine to eleven. So the

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Speaker 1: police had all these sweeping new powers from the Patriot Act,

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Speaker 1: and they triangulated your position from the cell signal and

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Speaker 1: found you over at your friends in Bushwick. But what's

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Speaker 1: weird is that they're looking for the old version of you, right,

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Speaker 1: They're looking for the eighteen year old, slimmer, short haired

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Speaker 1: Gary from the photo array, not the fully grown out,

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Speaker 1: much heavier, twenty one year old Gary with a seven

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Speaker 1: inch high afro who looks nothing close to the Eyewinness descriptions.

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Speaker 1: So both you and the police are confused. Now can

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Speaker 1: you describe what happened during your arrest.

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Speaker 2: It's like one of those scenes in almost like a

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Speaker 2: die Hard movie. The whole block is just filled with,

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Speaker 2: you know, squad cars and police officers and police officers

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Speaker 2: on the rules and the helicopters. As they were going

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Speaker 2: in to the building, I was coming out, right, I'm

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Speaker 2: not knowing they're coming for me. All right, I'm going

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Speaker 2: to the store and here all these police officers. I

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Speaker 2: look at them, they look at me. I'll go and

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Speaker 2: I walk to the store, not running. Walking. As I'm

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Speaker 2: in the store, the door opened and then a head

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Speaker 2: pokes in. He said, Hey, did you just come from

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Speaker 2: and he recites to build a number, and I said yes.

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Speaker 2: He asked me what my name is, and I tell

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Speaker 2: him my name is Guy Bella. He said, please put

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Speaker 2: your hands behind your back. So again I ain't say, Oh,

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Speaker 2: my name is George Jeffrey Calvin. So I'm not evading

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Speaker 2: being identified. Does this sound like the actions of a

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Speaker 2: guilty man.

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Speaker 1: Of course not. But it's crazy because you didn't think

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Speaker 1: they were even there for you, and they thought they

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Speaker 1: were looking for a guy who could potentially fit the description.

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Speaker 1: But as we see here in your case, the description

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Speaker 1: really didn't matter to them. They just move forward anyway.

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Speaker 1: So you're arrested. Detective Ready questioned you. You told him

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Speaker 1: what you're telling us here today, that you had absolutely

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Speaker 1: nothing to do with it, and then they put you

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Speaker 1: in a lineup.

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Speaker 3: Then that lineup was was conducted by Robert Reedy, and

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Speaker 3: Robert Reedy at least one time a couple of years

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Speaker 3: after this case admitted to essentially taining a lineup in

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Speaker 3: a photo right, and the case was thrown out on

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Speaker 3: that basis. So Robert Reedy knew who Gary was, and

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Speaker 3: he violated best practices. He shouldn't have been involved with

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Speaker 3: the lineup at all, but he was.

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Speaker 2: So they take me out of the cell and now

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Speaker 2: I'm going to go for this lineup. They took the

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Speaker 2: clothes I was wearing, gave something else to put on,

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Speaker 2: and then they told me to put on a shower

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Speaker 2: cap to hide my ear. And that's when I started O.

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Speaker 2: I said, hell no, I said, oh, what's I doing?

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Speaker 2: And I looked at Ready and I said, Rideo, you

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Speaker 2: ain't right, and he just like held down his head.

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Speaker 2: At that time, I already knew what they was doing,

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Speaker 2: that they was dressing me up to fit the description

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Speaker 2: of this person that they're looking for. They gave me

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Speaker 2: a jacket. I'm not hold on, this is not my clothes. Oh,

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Speaker 2: you gotta put it on. And then if it hiden

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Speaker 2: my here, by what reason would you have to hide

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Speaker 2: my him?

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Speaker 1: This episode is underwritten by AIG, a leading global insurance company.

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Speaker 1: AIG is committed to corporate social responsibility and is making

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Speaker 1: a positive difference in the lives of its employees and

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Speaker 1: in the communities where we work and live. In light

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Speaker 1: of the compelling need for pro bono legal assistance, and

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00:24:34,880 --> 00:24:38,960
Speaker 1: in recognition of AIG's commitment to criminal and social justice reform.

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00:24:39,119 --> 00:24:42,960
Speaker 1: The AIG pro Bono program provides free legal services and

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00:24:43,119 --> 00:24:54,600
Speaker 1: other support to underrepresented communities and individuals. So they corrupted

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Speaker 1: that lineup, and ultimately both Anthony Holder big surprise, and

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Speaker 1: then the mail carrier let him in and identified you.

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Speaker 1: So you spent eighteen long months awaiting trial at Rikers,

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Speaker 1: away from your family and your baby son. Your lawyer,

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Speaker 1: Daniel F. Lynch got discovery and the machinations of that

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Speaker 1: lineup started to become even clearer, confirming what you had feared.

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Speaker 2: And I said, I knew it. I knew this is

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Speaker 2: why they wanted me to change my clothes. They wanted

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Speaker 2: me to hide my head. These witnesses are saying X,

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Speaker 2: Y and Z. If this witness says short here, they

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Speaker 2: cannot put me in the lineup with this large afro,

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Speaker 2: so they have me hide it. But now the particular

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Speaker 2: witness let him in. Broughton, I'm gonna pick her first

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Speaker 2: at the grand jury, and then's questioned and let him

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Speaker 2: in brought and she stops for a second to say

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00:25:52,440 --> 00:25:55,840
Speaker 2: as if she wasn't sure she picked out the right guy.

433
00:25:56,640 --> 00:26:01,600
Speaker 2: So fast forward to two thousand three. While I'm at trial,

434
00:26:01,800 --> 00:26:04,400
Speaker 2: they asked her, did you see the shooter in the courtroom?

435
00:26:04,760 --> 00:26:09,760
Speaker 2: Let Hi mcbiden unequivancies says no. So she says no

436
00:26:09,920 --> 00:26:14,159
Speaker 2: at trial and at the grand jury she wasn't sure.

437
00:26:14,640 --> 00:26:18,000
Speaker 2: But then at the time of when she's viewing the lineup,

438
00:26:18,760 --> 00:26:23,040
Speaker 2: I am presented with the shallow cap that's hid in

439
00:26:23,080 --> 00:26:27,000
Speaker 2: my ear and with some clothing that's close enough to

440
00:26:27,200 --> 00:26:29,639
Speaker 2: what the shooter had on the day of the crime.

441
00:26:30,480 --> 00:26:33,280
Speaker 2: Is there any reason why she wouldn't have picked me out?

442
00:26:33,520 --> 00:26:37,720
Speaker 3: To witnesses identified Gary in a lineup, and of those

443
00:26:37,720 --> 00:26:40,280
Speaker 3: two witnesses only one of them identify in the trial,

444
00:26:40,320 --> 00:26:41,720
Speaker 3: which is Anthony Holder.

445
00:26:41,800 --> 00:26:44,000
Speaker 1: So let him and Boten was supposed to be a

446
00:26:44,040 --> 00:26:47,760
Speaker 1: prosecution witness but ended up working in favor of Gary's defense,

447
00:26:48,000 --> 00:26:51,240
Speaker 1: just like Roger Isaac. So at that point, as this

448
00:26:51,520 --> 00:26:53,840
Speaker 1: case was crumbling in front of their eyes, all they

449
00:26:53,880 --> 00:26:58,160
Speaker 1: had left was Anthony Holder, who ended up being totally unreliable.

450
00:26:58,480 --> 00:27:00,800
Speaker 1: And we're going to get to his testimony. But it

451
00:27:00,840 --> 00:27:03,720
Speaker 1: doesn't seem like your attorney should have had to work

452
00:27:03,800 --> 00:27:06,560
Speaker 1: very hard to discredit hold her with what was available

453
00:27:06,560 --> 00:27:06,920
Speaker 1: to him.

454
00:27:07,560 --> 00:27:11,840
Speaker 2: On assistant disc attorney Kyle Reeve's witness list, they had

455
00:27:12,160 --> 00:27:15,840
Speaker 2: Paula Edschell that was the witness that I wanted my

456
00:27:15,960 --> 00:27:20,639
Speaker 2: attorney to call on my behalf. Her phone call, the

457
00:27:20,720 --> 00:27:24,040
Speaker 2: nine one one call, as well as her DD five

458
00:27:24,720 --> 00:27:28,080
Speaker 2: and her Afford David at the sixty seventh precincts is

459
00:27:28,400 --> 00:27:33,480
Speaker 2: very much as sculpatory and Crue's third party culpability. The

460
00:27:33,600 --> 00:27:39,879
Speaker 2: description that she gave Paula Edgshell states that she looked

461
00:27:39,920 --> 00:27:43,320
Speaker 2: through her window and she saw the shooter and the

462
00:27:43,440 --> 00:27:49,959
Speaker 2: shooter was a medium height, dark skinned male, no afro.

463
00:27:50,920 --> 00:27:54,119
Speaker 2: So that's not me right.

464
00:27:54,040 --> 00:27:56,760
Speaker 1: But neither the prosecution nor your attorney called her as

465
00:27:56,760 --> 00:28:00,719
Speaker 1: a witness. But even without Paula Edgshell, you still had

466
00:28:00,800 --> 00:28:03,320
Speaker 1: let him in Voten and Roger Isaac blow up their

467
00:28:03,400 --> 00:28:06,959
Speaker 1: part of the state's case. So all this left is

468
00:28:07,040 --> 00:28:10,679
Speaker 1: Anthony Holder, who never actually described the shooter. He just

469
00:28:10,800 --> 00:28:14,200
Speaker 1: used your nickname Chucky, saying that some girls were encouraging

470
00:28:14,240 --> 00:28:17,920
Speaker 1: you to get after him, meaning Victor Vulcan. And none

471
00:28:17,920 --> 00:28:20,880
Speaker 1: of those girls ever surfaced, nor did this alleged black

472
00:28:20,920 --> 00:28:24,240
Speaker 1: duffel bag. What other holds should your defense have poked

473
00:28:24,240 --> 00:28:25,280
Speaker 1: in Holder's testimony?

474
00:28:25,440 --> 00:28:30,520
Speaker 3: The inconsistencies are abound with Anthony Holder he says, the

475
00:28:30,560 --> 00:28:33,439
Speaker 3: guys shot with a thirty eight. Guy's not shot with

476
00:28:33,480 --> 00:28:36,119
Speaker 3: the thirty eight. I believe the slugs were consistent with

477
00:28:36,200 --> 00:28:40,400
Speaker 3: the twenty five. Forensically, the description that he gives does

478
00:28:40,440 --> 00:28:43,440
Speaker 3: not match up to the wounds that the man suffers,

479
00:28:43,600 --> 00:28:45,400
Speaker 3: And to be honest with you, I don't really think

480
00:28:45,440 --> 00:28:51,280
Speaker 3: anybody gives a very consistent description of what actually happened

481
00:28:52,000 --> 00:28:55,880
Speaker 3: because of how fast it happened. We don't know if

482
00:28:56,440 --> 00:29:00,800
Speaker 3: Vulcan was standing upright when the first shots rang out right.

483
00:29:01,080 --> 00:29:04,400
Speaker 3: But what we do know is that there was stippling

484
00:29:04,960 --> 00:29:07,360
Speaker 3: on one of the shots on the chest, which would

485
00:29:07,440 --> 00:29:11,840
Speaker 3: indicate that the shooter was very close, within twenty four inches.

486
00:29:12,640 --> 00:29:16,320
Speaker 3: Anthony Holder says that the shooter was four feet away.

487
00:29:17,160 --> 00:29:21,760
Speaker 1: So it would have been helpful if these wild inconsistencies

488
00:29:21,800 --> 00:29:25,400
Speaker 1: were pointed out to impeach the one the only state's

489
00:29:25,400 --> 00:29:29,160
Speaker 1: witness here was in fact their only piece of evidence,

490
00:29:29,680 --> 00:29:32,400
Speaker 1: but your attorney was not prepared to do that. However,

491
00:29:32,640 --> 00:29:37,200
Speaker 1: your attorney did present one very powerful witness, Augustin Hinkson,

492
00:29:37,240 --> 00:29:40,040
Speaker 1: who had called nine to one one and corroborated led

493
00:29:40,120 --> 00:29:43,440
Speaker 1: him in Voten and Paula Edgehill's descriptions and versions of events.

494
00:29:44,040 --> 00:29:49,040
Speaker 2: Augustin Hinkshon states that the shooter and the victim is

495
00:29:49,200 --> 00:29:54,520
Speaker 2: the same height. The medical examiner at trials stated that

496
00:29:55,360 --> 00:29:59,640
Speaker 2: Victor Volcane sustained a gunshot wound to his chest and

497
00:29:59,680 --> 00:30:05,040
Speaker 2: the no vertical for ponderance when asks what can cause

498
00:30:05,080 --> 00:30:08,640
Speaker 2: that is that whoever shot him with the same height

499
00:30:08,960 --> 00:30:13,880
Speaker 2: ass him. So Gustine Hinton is right on that. Now,

500
00:30:14,120 --> 00:30:20,000
Speaker 2: another part of his testimony is he states that when

501
00:30:20,040 --> 00:30:24,480
Speaker 2: the shooting was going on, that he was ushering some

502
00:30:24,600 --> 00:30:29,480
Speaker 2: young children away from the crime. Now, when you get

503
00:30:29,520 --> 00:30:35,520
Speaker 2: to Anthony Holder, Anthony Holder is a legend that he

504
00:30:35,840 --> 00:30:39,640
Speaker 2: was the one that was ushering his young children away

505
00:30:39,720 --> 00:30:43,880
Speaker 2: from the crime. But he goes on to also say

506
00:30:44,680 --> 00:30:50,400
Speaker 2: that the shooter also is responsible for shooting one of

507
00:30:50,440 --> 00:30:51,400
Speaker 2: those young children.

508
00:30:52,360 --> 00:30:55,440
Speaker 3: What I think is important about Holder is there's nothing

509
00:30:55,480 --> 00:30:59,000
Speaker 3: about his testimony that's true. The fact that he says

510
00:30:59,040 --> 00:31:03,920
Speaker 3: a little girl was when there's absolutely no and YPD

511
00:31:04,200 --> 00:31:08,840
Speaker 3: record of a small younger girl being shot at the scene.

512
00:31:09,760 --> 00:31:12,400
Speaker 3: A little girl was not. This is like if a

513
00:31:12,560 --> 00:31:15,720
Speaker 3: child was shot at the scene, Gary been lost to

514
00:31:15,760 --> 00:31:18,360
Speaker 3: be doing a lot more than twenty five the life.

515
00:31:18,200 --> 00:31:24,400
Speaker 2: That testimony had never surfaced at any time prior to trial.

516
00:31:25,240 --> 00:31:32,800
Speaker 2: That false testimony only came about when assisted just the attorney,

517
00:31:33,280 --> 00:31:40,680
Speaker 2: Kyle Reeves elicited that false and inflammatory testimony from Anthony

518
00:31:40,720 --> 00:31:45,000
Speaker 2: Holder and then later turned around and vouched for the

519
00:31:45,120 --> 00:31:50,920
Speaker 2: authenticity of that testimony. He also presented Anthony Holder as

520
00:31:50,960 --> 00:31:53,719
Speaker 2: this super righteous citizen of society.

521
00:31:54,000 --> 00:31:57,120
Speaker 1: I mean, not only should his shaky testimony have been

522
00:31:57,120 --> 00:32:00,600
Speaker 1: seen through, but also they were hiding some thing, which

523
00:32:00,680 --> 00:32:04,680
Speaker 1: was that this guy had a powerful incentive to lie

524
00:32:04,920 --> 00:32:07,680
Speaker 1: or to say what the authorities wanted him to say,

525
00:32:07,680 --> 00:32:11,280
Speaker 1: which is that he was facing pending charges himself. And

526
00:32:11,600 --> 00:32:13,920
Speaker 1: we know that in a lot of these cases where

527
00:32:13,960 --> 00:32:18,440
Speaker 1: these eyewitnesses suddenly are able to make an identification, those

528
00:32:18,560 --> 00:32:21,440
Speaker 1: charges that they're facing magically go away and they're sort

529
00:32:21,440 --> 00:32:23,160
Speaker 1: of making it deal with the devil. Is that what

530
00:32:23,280 --> 00:32:23,800
Speaker 1: happened here?

531
00:32:23,880 --> 00:32:30,760
Speaker 3: Yes, absolutely, absolutely he had pending charges, and from our investigation,

532
00:32:31,000 --> 00:32:33,719
Speaker 3: those charges are sealed, which means at some point they

533
00:32:33,720 --> 00:32:37,760
Speaker 3: were dismissed, but they were pending while he testified. And

534
00:32:38,960 --> 00:32:44,320
Speaker 3: interestingly enough, Kyle Reeves, when asked if the man had

535
00:32:44,320 --> 00:32:47,480
Speaker 3: any pending charges, said that he'd never been arrested before.

536
00:32:47,720 --> 00:32:51,680
Speaker 1: So that sounds carefully worded. And why would any prosecutor

537
00:32:51,760 --> 00:32:54,240
Speaker 1: lie or mislead the jury about a witness's criminal history

538
00:32:54,280 --> 00:32:56,520
Speaker 1: or pending charges if not to hide a potential deal

539
00:32:56,560 --> 00:33:00,480
Speaker 1: for leniency. And when Holder's testimony is he only piece

540
00:33:00,480 --> 00:33:03,160
Speaker 1: of evidence against you, stacked up against all of the

541
00:33:03,160 --> 00:33:06,520
Speaker 1: independent witnesses whose testimony was in favor of Gary's innocence.

542
00:33:06,920 --> 00:33:10,880
Speaker 1: Plus Anthony Holder made an unfounded charge that a little

543
00:33:10,880 --> 00:33:15,400
Speaker 1: girl had been shot as well. If that's true, then

544
00:33:15,400 --> 00:33:18,080
Speaker 1: why wasn't Gary charged with the attempted murder of a child.

545
00:33:18,920 --> 00:33:22,560
Speaker 1: It's just it's just hard to see how the jury

546
00:33:22,560 --> 00:33:25,880
Speaker 1: could get this so wrong. You had Roger Isaac let

547
00:33:25,920 --> 00:33:29,280
Speaker 1: him in voting, and even without Paula Edgehill, you then

548
00:33:29,320 --> 00:33:32,960
Speaker 1: had Augustin Hinkson. I mean, was the prosecution able to

549
00:33:33,000 --> 00:33:36,120
Speaker 1: say that Hinkson was a friend of Gary's or something

550
00:33:36,360 --> 00:33:37,920
Speaker 1: anything to impeach him.

551
00:33:38,080 --> 00:33:42,920
Speaker 3: I think Augustin Hickson was the most reliable person that testified.

552
00:33:43,000 --> 00:33:46,560
Speaker 3: Augustin Hinkson's relations to Gary's is just an acquaintance. Hainkson

553
00:33:46,680 --> 00:33:49,479
Speaker 3: had no dog in the race, I believe. Actually Hankson

554
00:33:49,560 --> 00:33:51,320
Speaker 3: is a nine to one one caller. That's how they

555
00:33:51,320 --> 00:33:54,680
Speaker 3: get to Hankson. Hankson is a real world person that's

556
00:33:54,720 --> 00:33:58,120
Speaker 3: there that they know is there from the gate that

557
00:33:58,200 --> 00:34:02,200
Speaker 3: gives a statement to them. Hinkson is adamant that Gary

558
00:34:02,360 --> 00:34:08,439
Speaker 3: was not there. I don't understand how Gary loses other

559
00:34:08,480 --> 00:34:11,200
Speaker 3: than the fact that maybe the jury believed that he

560
00:34:11,280 --> 00:34:13,600
Speaker 3: shot a little girl. I don't know. I mean that

561
00:34:14,000 --> 00:34:15,800
Speaker 3: a little girl that definitely wasn't a shot.

562
00:34:16,200 --> 00:34:18,480
Speaker 1: There's a miracle that no kids were shot, but the

563
00:34:18,480 --> 00:34:21,799
Speaker 1: fact remains that no kid was shot. But they just

564
00:34:21,880 --> 00:34:24,239
Speaker 1: made up this story, and it seems to me there's

565
00:34:24,239 --> 00:34:26,279
Speaker 1: at least a good chance that they were doing that

566
00:34:26,400 --> 00:34:31,040
Speaker 1: in order to cast this terrible light on Gary, so

567
00:34:31,120 --> 00:34:35,200
Speaker 1: that if the jury saw through the nonsense that they

568
00:34:35,239 --> 00:34:39,520
Speaker 1: were being fed, they would still say, well, this guy's

569
00:34:39,560 --> 00:34:43,799
Speaker 1: a terrible guy because he shot a child. So even

570
00:34:43,840 --> 00:34:46,759
Speaker 1: if the evidence is shaky as hell, we're still gonna

571
00:34:46,800 --> 00:34:48,480
Speaker 1: go ahead and convict him. Am I am I off

572
00:34:48,480 --> 00:34:48,960
Speaker 1: base here?

573
00:34:49,520 --> 00:34:52,520
Speaker 3: No, No, not at all. No. I think you're one

574
00:34:52,560 --> 00:34:56,080
Speaker 3: hundred percent right. Holder was a terrible witness, but he

575
00:34:56,160 --> 00:35:01,560
Speaker 3: was enough, you know, he was enough to sink Gary. Unfortunately,

576
00:35:01,640 --> 00:35:04,600
Speaker 3: and that's the problem with the American justice system is

577
00:35:04,640 --> 00:35:09,799
Speaker 3: that a single witness like this could actually send a

578
00:35:09,840 --> 00:35:11,480
Speaker 3: man in prison for twenty five the life.

579
00:35:11,640 --> 00:35:14,839
Speaker 1: Gary was convicted of second agree murder on November twenty,

580
00:35:14,960 --> 00:35:18,279
Speaker 1: two thousand and three. So Gary, take us inside the

581
00:35:18,360 --> 00:35:20,800
Speaker 1: courtroom and inside your heart and soul.

582
00:35:21,280 --> 00:35:27,839
Speaker 2: At that moment, it was unbelievable. It was heartbreaking, It

583
00:35:27,880 --> 00:35:32,840
Speaker 2: was so shadowing. My life and my world came to

584
00:35:33,200 --> 00:35:38,160
Speaker 2: a halt at that moment. The day I was sentenced,

585
00:35:38,920 --> 00:35:43,799
Speaker 2: my family has also been sentenced to twenty five years

586
00:35:43,800 --> 00:36:02,480
Speaker 2: to life. You're pretty much gift of everything I was given.

587
00:36:03,280 --> 00:36:07,440
Speaker 2: You know, this new identity, the identity that the Department

588
00:36:07,480 --> 00:36:10,680
Speaker 2: of Correction wished to know me by. They don't care

589
00:36:10,800 --> 00:36:14,759
Speaker 2: to know who Gary Benlass is, and if Gary Benlass

590
00:36:14,840 --> 00:36:19,600
Speaker 2: is wrongfully convicted, they don't care about that. I'm known

591
00:36:19,600 --> 00:36:22,719
Speaker 2: to the Department of Corrections at zero three eight six

592
00:36:22,840 --> 00:36:27,600
Speaker 2: four one five. But I'm here to tell everyone that's

593
00:36:27,719 --> 00:36:31,080
Speaker 2: not who I am talking about, a young man who

594
00:36:31,239 --> 00:36:35,440
Speaker 2: was stripped away from his family. There's a void in

595
00:36:35,480 --> 00:36:38,799
Speaker 2: the lives of my mother, for my sister, the mother

596
00:36:38,880 --> 00:36:44,240
Speaker 2: of my son, for my grandmother, my uncles, my aunts,

597
00:36:44,719 --> 00:36:50,480
Speaker 2: my cousins. So I'm not carrying this sentence alone. There's

598
00:36:50,520 --> 00:36:53,960
Speaker 2: a void that's in the life of my son who

599
00:36:54,040 --> 00:36:58,960
Speaker 2: had to grow up without me there, that had dreams

600
00:36:59,640 --> 00:37:03,879
Speaker 2: of his father coming home, but he would never see

601
00:37:03,920 --> 00:37:09,360
Speaker 2: that because he had passed away before it actually happened.

602
00:37:11,719 --> 00:37:17,399
Speaker 1: This tragedy, it's almost hard to even process this right,

603
00:37:17,520 --> 00:37:20,080
Speaker 1: but I know when I was up visiting you, Gary,

604
00:37:20,400 --> 00:37:22,480
Speaker 1: you showed me a letter you had gotten from your son,

605
00:37:22,520 --> 00:37:24,319
Speaker 1: that your son grew up without his dad through no

606
00:37:24,440 --> 00:37:26,520
Speaker 1: fault of yours, a no fault of his own, and

607
00:37:26,640 --> 00:37:30,200
Speaker 1: yet you managed to be a good father, a great

608
00:37:30,239 --> 00:37:32,799
Speaker 1: father from prison, as good as anyone could be, and

609
00:37:32,840 --> 00:37:35,200
Speaker 1: he turned out to be a fantastic kid. I saw

610
00:37:35,200 --> 00:37:39,200
Speaker 1: a letter that he wrote to you, that was a

611
00:37:39,280 --> 00:37:42,040
Speaker 1: letter that any father would love to get from their child,

612
00:37:43,040 --> 00:37:46,399
Speaker 1: where he basically said, I love you and I wish

613
00:37:46,480 --> 00:37:48,000
Speaker 1: things were different, but we're going to make up for

614
00:37:48,120 --> 00:37:50,719
Speaker 1: lost time when you come home. You're my inspiration, You're

615
00:37:50,760 --> 00:37:57,880
Speaker 1: my hero. And that letter, which I could almost not

616
00:37:58,080 --> 00:38:02,520
Speaker 1: read knowing what happened next, was just so beautiful and powerful.

617
00:38:03,280 --> 00:38:07,200
Speaker 1: And the awful truth is that the day after that

618
00:38:07,280 --> 00:38:10,200
Speaker 1: you received that letter, he was killed in a writing

619
00:38:10,239 --> 00:38:12,120
Speaker 1: in an uber, just a passenger in an uber and

620
00:38:12,200 --> 00:38:16,920
Speaker 1: a random hit and run accident. I think we should

621
00:38:16,960 --> 00:38:19,200
Speaker 1: really dedicate this episode to his memory.

622
00:38:19,440 --> 00:38:23,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, talking about a very very very dark moment,

623
00:38:25,000 --> 00:38:31,640
Speaker 2: and I had to find first within me strength.

624
00:38:32,600 --> 00:38:36,080
Speaker 1: It's a tremendous weight that I cannot imagine lifting, considering

625
00:38:36,160 --> 00:38:39,800
Speaker 1: the weight you had already lifted. Perhaps it's the strength

626
00:38:39,880 --> 00:38:42,680
Speaker 1: that you built over all that time leading up to

627
00:38:42,760 --> 00:38:44,240
Speaker 1: this even heavier moment.

628
00:38:44,719 --> 00:38:50,400
Speaker 2: And I had to find that light of redemption first

629
00:38:50,680 --> 00:38:57,600
Speaker 2: within me to guide me through this perilous place so

630
00:38:57,719 --> 00:39:01,560
Speaker 2: I can get to that platau where I can say, listen,

631
00:39:02,560 --> 00:39:06,319
Speaker 2: I'm not going to let my time in here go

632
00:39:06,520 --> 00:39:09,360
Speaker 2: to waste. I'm not going to allow my wrong for

633
00:39:09,600 --> 00:39:12,719
Speaker 2: conviction to stop me from being the man that I'm

634
00:39:12,760 --> 00:39:17,319
Speaker 2: supposed to be. I'm going to fight this, I'm going

635
00:39:17,360 --> 00:39:21,080
Speaker 2: to win, and I'm also going to make sure that

636
00:39:21,160 --> 00:39:23,240
Speaker 2: I'm in position where I can help uppers.

637
00:39:24,160 --> 00:39:26,359
Speaker 1: And I've read a bit about some of the good

638
00:39:26,360 --> 00:39:28,640
Speaker 1: things that you've done with your time on the inside.

639
00:39:28,680 --> 00:39:31,560
Speaker 1: In fact, I've witnessed some of them in person. I mean,

640
00:39:31,600 --> 00:39:35,000
Speaker 1: I've been up there and seen you doing your thing,

641
00:39:36,000 --> 00:39:38,200
Speaker 1: making a difference. Can you tell us a little bit

642
00:39:38,239 --> 00:39:38,920
Speaker 1: about your work?

643
00:39:39,120 --> 00:39:41,000
Speaker 2: So in two thousand and six, I went and I

644
00:39:41,120 --> 00:39:46,440
Speaker 2: actually attained my GED Now I'm helping other individuals to

645
00:39:46,600 --> 00:39:52,240
Speaker 2: achieve their GEDs. I became a facilitator for a cultural

646
00:39:52,239 --> 00:39:57,440
Speaker 2: awareness class due the CAAU organization, which is a Cabbean africmmunity.

647
00:39:58,040 --> 00:40:02,320
Speaker 2: I've partaked in alternative violence program where you help to

648
00:40:02,440 --> 00:40:08,000
Speaker 2: mentor people to find a way to allegate situations without

649
00:40:08,040 --> 00:40:12,520
Speaker 2: the needs of violence. Twenty twelve, I was in the

650
00:40:12,560 --> 00:40:19,200
Speaker 2: Electrical Trade program. I actually advanced and became it which

651
00:40:19,320 --> 00:40:23,600
Speaker 2: is called inmate program assistant, so I was an assistant

652
00:40:23,840 --> 00:40:27,319
Speaker 2: to the teacher. So I became a facilitator and through

653
00:40:27,360 --> 00:40:32,120
Speaker 2: that also allowed me the opportunity to gain my apprenticeship

654
00:40:32,560 --> 00:40:37,600
Speaker 2: through the NCCER course, where I was able to take

655
00:40:37,640 --> 00:40:41,120
Speaker 2: the same type of tests and courses that a person

656
00:40:41,160 --> 00:40:44,439
Speaker 2: on the outside would so they could become electrician. When

657
00:40:44,440 --> 00:40:47,600
Speaker 2: I came to Sincin immediately signed up for the Mercy

658
00:40:47,600 --> 00:40:51,200
Speaker 2: College Hustling program that they have here where I am

659
00:40:51,400 --> 00:40:56,160
Speaker 2: actually going for my bachelor's in behavioral Science. I wasn't

660
00:40:56,360 --> 00:40:59,840
Speaker 2: allowing my state of mind incarcervation to hold me back,

661
00:41:00,320 --> 00:41:02,680
Speaker 2: and I was sitting down the stones for my future

662
00:41:03,239 --> 00:41:04,600
Speaker 2: and I have a little better.

663
00:41:05,120 --> 00:41:08,000
Speaker 1: No you have not, and you've brought that same proactive

664
00:41:08,080 --> 00:41:11,880
Speaker 1: and incredibly positive spirit to the work that you've done

665
00:41:12,560 --> 00:41:15,439
Speaker 1: inside with a group of guys called the AI Team,

666
00:41:15,880 --> 00:41:19,400
Speaker 1: the Actual Innocence Team, good name. Longtime listeners of the

667
00:41:19,400 --> 00:41:22,200
Speaker 1: show will remember other members of this New York based crew,

668
00:41:22,480 --> 00:41:25,520
Speaker 1: two of whom are already out. I'm talking about Derek Hamilton,

669
00:41:26,000 --> 00:41:30,239
Speaker 1: Shabaka Shakur and of course Nelson Cruz, Danny Rinkhon and

670
00:41:30,280 --> 00:41:35,560
Speaker 1: yourself still remain inside. You also were friendly with another

671
00:41:36,000 --> 00:41:39,120
Speaker 1: great friend of the show and great personal friend of mine,

672
00:41:39,239 --> 00:41:42,359
Speaker 1: personal hero. I would say, I'm talking about JJ Velasquez,

673
00:41:42,400 --> 00:41:45,440
Speaker 1: who is another just incredibly inspirational man.

674
00:41:45,760 --> 00:41:51,040
Speaker 2: Being around these individuals also help to give me a

675
00:41:51,120 --> 00:41:56,120
Speaker 2: sense of hope and courage because now you no longer

676
00:41:56,160 --> 00:41:59,440
Speaker 2: feel alone. And we'll go to a law a lotbrries

677
00:41:59,480 --> 00:42:03,520
Speaker 2: will reach cases and we'll see what we can find

678
00:42:03,840 --> 00:42:06,520
Speaker 2: will be able to help us. Oh that right, there

679
00:42:06,600 --> 00:42:10,839
Speaker 2: is a batching issue. Well that's a strictly versus Washington issue. Oh,

680
00:42:10,920 --> 00:42:14,680
Speaker 2: that's the way issue. And that's how I started to

681
00:42:14,800 --> 00:42:18,880
Speaker 2: learn the law. Interestingly, you know it's not supposed to happen,

682
00:42:18,920 --> 00:42:22,359
Speaker 2: but now you can put legal theory to it. Now,

683
00:42:22,760 --> 00:42:26,200
Speaker 2: it's more than just going into a court submitting a

684
00:42:26,200 --> 00:42:29,239
Speaker 2: piece of paper and saying I didn't do it.

685
00:42:29,880 --> 00:42:32,040
Speaker 1: So you fought your case for a while this way,

686
00:42:32,120 --> 00:42:35,640
Speaker 1: and eventually Derek, Shabaka and JJ got out and slowly

687
00:42:35,640 --> 00:42:37,400
Speaker 1: but surely you got your case in front of our

688
00:42:37,440 --> 00:42:40,600
Speaker 1: friend Justin here. So justin, what has happened so far

689
00:42:40,960 --> 00:42:44,080
Speaker 1: in Gary's post conviction fight and where does his case stand? Now?

690
00:42:44,800 --> 00:42:48,480
Speaker 3: Okay? Well, Gary, you know, of course he filed the

691
00:42:48,520 --> 00:42:52,240
Speaker 3: direct appeal. And what's very interesting about Gary's direct appeal

692
00:42:53,040 --> 00:42:55,160
Speaker 3: is that he's we're saying the same thing that we're

693
00:42:55,200 --> 00:42:58,640
Speaker 3: saying now, right, Gary has been consistent since day one.

694
00:42:59,480 --> 00:43:02,400
Speaker 3: He filed a motion to vacate his conviction back in

695
00:43:02,400 --> 00:43:05,279
Speaker 3: two thousand and two. One of the issues was the

696
00:43:05,280 --> 00:43:09,480
Speaker 3: fact that Anthony Holder had a criminal charge that was

697
00:43:09,560 --> 00:43:13,960
Speaker 3: pending during the trial that was never disclosed. Actually, Kyle Reeves,

698
00:43:14,680 --> 00:43:18,160
Speaker 3: as per usual, I should say, Kyle Reeves, failed to

699
00:43:18,200 --> 00:43:21,759
Speaker 3: turn that over and actually indicated that Anthony Holder had

700
00:43:21,800 --> 00:43:24,880
Speaker 3: never been arrested before in his life, which was totally untrue.

701
00:43:25,360 --> 00:43:28,640
Speaker 3: That just goes along with Kyle Reeves's theme. But as

702
00:43:28,680 --> 00:43:32,279
Speaker 3: of right now, you know, we are really reinvestigating the

703
00:43:32,320 --> 00:43:35,080
Speaker 3: forensics at the scene and pulling all the files from

704
00:43:35,120 --> 00:43:39,080
Speaker 3: the NYPD and the District Attorney's office to prepare for

705
00:43:39,520 --> 00:43:43,080
Speaker 3: another four point forty or to go to the conviction

706
00:43:43,200 --> 00:43:46,040
Speaker 3: Review Unit, which I do think would be very interested

707
00:43:46,080 --> 00:43:49,759
Speaker 3: in this case based upon how unreliable the evidence is

708
00:43:49,800 --> 00:43:54,600
Speaker 3: here that convicted Gary and the evidence of innocence. You know, Jason,

709
00:43:54,600 --> 00:43:56,960
Speaker 3: I think the biggest thing is what makes a case

710
00:43:57,040 --> 00:44:01,000
Speaker 3: like Gary's very strong is the evidence that's in the

711
00:44:01,040 --> 00:44:04,799
Speaker 3: possession of the prosecutor. And when you look at that,

712
00:44:05,200 --> 00:44:08,920
Speaker 3: including Augustin Hinkson let him in Bolton and then a

713
00:44:09,000 --> 00:44:12,160
Speaker 3: nine to one one caller, three people all say that

714
00:44:12,239 --> 00:44:15,080
Speaker 3: Gary bin Loss is not the shooter here, He's not

715
00:44:15,160 --> 00:44:18,520
Speaker 3: the person that killed Victor Vulcan. And I think that

716
00:44:18,520 --> 00:44:23,280
Speaker 3: that's overwhelming evidence of innocence in comparison to Anthony Holder.

717
00:44:24,000 --> 00:44:26,600
Speaker 3: And that's what we're working on right now is tying

718
00:44:26,600 --> 00:44:30,239
Speaker 3: that all together, both forensically and through our investigation and

719
00:44:30,280 --> 00:44:32,520
Speaker 3: to see if there's any more Brady evidence out there,

720
00:44:32,800 --> 00:44:35,600
Speaker 3: because there was at least one witness that was interviewed

721
00:44:35,680 --> 00:44:38,799
Speaker 3: that was friends with Victor Vulcan that stated that Victor

722
00:44:38,880 --> 00:44:42,200
Speaker 3: Vulcan had beef with people from his own block. He

723
00:44:42,320 --> 00:44:44,600
Speaker 3: was not from the block where he was found murdered

724
00:44:44,640 --> 00:44:47,440
Speaker 3: at So we know we are investigating all these claims

725
00:44:47,520 --> 00:44:51,080
Speaker 3: before we do anything, but we're evaluating whether we go

726
00:44:51,200 --> 00:44:53,640
Speaker 3: forward with another motion to vacate or go to Brooklyn's

727
00:44:53,640 --> 00:44:54,760
Speaker 3: Conviction Review Unit.

728
00:44:54,880 --> 00:44:57,920
Speaker 1: Justin what can people do? And I'm sure people are listening,

729
00:44:58,000 --> 00:45:01,759
Speaker 1: heartbroken and angry and motivating. So what can people do

730
00:45:02,200 --> 00:45:05,480
Speaker 1: to help bring some semblance of justice for Gary?

731
00:45:06,080 --> 00:45:07,960
Speaker 3: I would say start off by reaching out to Aer

732
00:45:08,000 --> 00:45:12,360
Speaker 3: Gonzales Brooklyn DA's office, and also Gary has a change

733
00:45:12,360 --> 00:45:16,279
Speaker 3: dot org page, and support the petition and continue to

734
00:45:16,400 --> 00:45:20,080
Speaker 3: support people who are like Gary. I think that's the

735
00:45:20,120 --> 00:45:23,239
Speaker 3: biggest problem. There needs to be more support from a

736
00:45:23,400 --> 00:45:27,359
Speaker 3: broader base in the country, right. It has to be

737
00:45:27,400 --> 00:45:29,560
Speaker 3: more than just the people that have been affected by

738
00:45:29,600 --> 00:45:33,560
Speaker 3: wrongful convictions. It has to be people that are just regular,

739
00:45:33,760 --> 00:45:37,359
Speaker 3: average American citizens because they need to understand that this

740
00:45:37,440 --> 00:45:39,480
Speaker 3: could be you, because it could be you, It could

741
00:45:39,480 --> 00:45:41,480
Speaker 3: be your son, it could be your daughter, it could

742
00:45:41,600 --> 00:45:44,240
Speaker 3: it could be anybody. It could be you, and people

743
00:45:44,280 --> 00:45:48,240
Speaker 3: need to stop acting like that that's not a fact.

744
00:45:48,480 --> 00:45:51,960
Speaker 1: We will link in the bio to the petition and

745
00:45:52,000 --> 00:45:54,680
Speaker 1: to other information about the case. Please do click on

746
00:45:54,719 --> 00:45:58,600
Speaker 1: the link in the bio, sign the petition and get

747
00:45:58,640 --> 00:46:02,680
Speaker 1: involved and will hopefully be able to publish an update

748
00:46:02,719 --> 00:46:05,080
Speaker 1: to this episode sometime and then not to just in

749
00:46:05,200 --> 00:46:07,880
Speaker 1: future where we get to speak with Gary from the outside.

750
00:46:07,960 --> 00:46:10,480
Speaker 1: And now, of course it's time to turn to the

751
00:46:10,520 --> 00:46:14,480
Speaker 1: closing of our show, which everyone knows is called closing arguments,

752
00:46:14,560 --> 00:46:18,160
Speaker 1: and this is where I thank you guys again. I'm

753
00:46:18,160 --> 00:46:21,640
Speaker 1: going to turn over to you first justin for your thoughts,

754
00:46:21,719 --> 00:46:23,960
Speaker 1: any other thoughts you want to share, and then of

755
00:46:24,000 --> 00:46:26,719
Speaker 1: course hand off to Gary and he'll take us off

756
00:46:26,760 --> 00:46:27,719
Speaker 1: into the sunset.

757
00:46:28,400 --> 00:46:31,560
Speaker 3: The first thing that we really need to consider in

758
00:46:31,600 --> 00:46:34,799
Speaker 3: this case is because it happens over and over and

759
00:46:34,840 --> 00:46:38,520
Speaker 3: over again in identification cases, is where there's a description

760
00:46:38,600 --> 00:46:43,400
Speaker 3: that does not match the person that they end up arrestling. Obviously,

761
00:46:43,560 --> 00:46:49,000
Speaker 3: common sense says that the suspect should match the description

762
00:46:49,280 --> 00:46:53,720
Speaker 3: that the witnesses say was the perpetrator, and Gary's case

763
00:46:54,160 --> 00:46:57,959
Speaker 3: is very typical, especially in a place like New York City,

764
00:46:58,000 --> 00:47:01,520
Speaker 3: where the police don't care. They just don't care. They

765
00:47:01,520 --> 00:47:04,040
Speaker 3: get a name, they focus on the name. They don't

766
00:47:04,040 --> 00:47:08,240
Speaker 3: care that the person that is this name doesn't match

767
00:47:08,320 --> 00:47:12,040
Speaker 3: the description of the perpetrator given by the witnesses. That

768
00:47:12,239 --> 00:47:14,440
Speaker 3: just goes right out the window. People don't think that

769
00:47:14,440 --> 00:47:17,239
Speaker 3: that's true. But Gary is evident to that. And I

770
00:47:17,239 --> 00:47:19,440
Speaker 3: can tell you as an attorney that practices in New

771
00:47:19,520 --> 00:47:21,959
Speaker 3: York City every day, that that happens all the time,

772
00:47:22,040 --> 00:47:25,160
Speaker 3: and it still happens in twenty twenty two. And Gary

773
00:47:25,280 --> 00:47:28,080
Speaker 3: is a he's a spot on case of where the

774
00:47:28,120 --> 00:47:31,279
Speaker 3: police didn't care. And the police didn't care because they

775
00:47:31,320 --> 00:47:34,160
Speaker 3: knew his name, they knew who he was. They focused

776
00:47:34,160 --> 00:47:37,080
Speaker 3: in on him. They put him in a photo array

777
00:47:37,239 --> 00:47:40,319
Speaker 3: with a photo that didn't match anything that looked like him.

778
00:47:40,719 --> 00:47:44,000
Speaker 3: It matched more the description of what the witnesses said

779
00:47:44,040 --> 00:47:46,000
Speaker 3: the perpetrator looked like. And what I mean by that

780
00:47:46,120 --> 00:47:48,520
Speaker 3: is obviously a photo array. All you really have is

781
00:47:48,560 --> 00:47:52,040
Speaker 3: the head. The person had short hair in the photo ray, right,

782
00:47:52,080 --> 00:47:55,719
Speaker 3: so that at least matched more the description of the perpetrator.

783
00:47:56,040 --> 00:47:58,400
Speaker 3: They went and they arrested Gary. Then they put him

784
00:47:58,400 --> 00:48:01,200
Speaker 3: in a lineup where he looks nothing like he looked

785
00:48:01,239 --> 00:48:03,560
Speaker 3: in the photo, all right, And Robert Reedy is the

786
00:48:03,600 --> 00:48:08,239
Speaker 3: one that handles the identification and the witnesses somehow identify

787
00:48:08,360 --> 00:48:12,480
Speaker 3: him in the lineup. The person that's running these procedures

788
00:48:12,480 --> 00:48:14,960
Speaker 3: should not be involved with the investigation and they should

789
00:48:14,960 --> 00:48:18,040
Speaker 3: not know who the subject is. And Robert Reedy has

790
00:48:18,080 --> 00:48:21,279
Speaker 3: done this before. He's gotten called out, cases have been

791
00:48:21,320 --> 00:48:26,839
Speaker 3: thrown out because he suggested and tainted identification procedures. And

792
00:48:26,880 --> 00:48:29,120
Speaker 3: then who does Robert Reedy hand the case off to

793
00:48:29,960 --> 00:48:36,680
Speaker 3: Kyle Reeves, who's framed numerous men, scumback of the highest order.

794
00:48:37,160 --> 00:48:40,359
Speaker 3: And people need to understand what is the DA's job.

795
00:48:40,719 --> 00:48:44,360
Speaker 3: The DA's job is to vet the police's investigation. Kyle

796
00:48:44,440 --> 00:48:48,279
Speaker 3: Reeves doesn't vet an investigation. He takes the investigation and

797
00:48:48,320 --> 00:48:51,719
Speaker 3: he fixes it. He does the opposite of what you're

798
00:48:51,760 --> 00:48:55,960
Speaker 3: supposed to do. And even in the face of descriptions

799
00:48:56,080 --> 00:49:01,239
Speaker 3: of a perpetrator that are eighty pounds lest yes, and

800
00:49:01,960 --> 00:49:05,600
Speaker 3: half a foot shorter than gary ben Lost and having

801
00:49:05,640 --> 00:49:09,080
Speaker 3: a haircut that doesn't match the afro that gary Ben Loss, says,

802
00:49:09,080 --> 00:49:12,160
Speaker 3: there's nothing about the shooter in this case that matches

803
00:49:12,200 --> 00:49:15,480
Speaker 3: the description of Gary ben Lost. Kyle Reeves still takes

804
00:49:15,480 --> 00:49:18,680
Speaker 3: this to trial. He puts let him in Bolton on

805
00:49:18,719 --> 00:49:22,160
Speaker 3: the stand. She stands up in courtiess and you see

806
00:49:22,200 --> 00:49:26,000
Speaker 3: the guy that shot the victim, Victor Vulcan Here, she

807
00:49:26,160 --> 00:49:31,880
Speaker 3: says no. She says no, her testimony matches her initial

808
00:49:32,200 --> 00:49:35,240
Speaker 3: description of the shoe, which it was not gary Ben Lost.

809
00:49:35,440 --> 00:49:38,640
Speaker 3: That's a non identification. He puts Anthony Holder on the

810
00:49:38,640 --> 00:49:42,480
Speaker 3: witness stand. Anthony Holder gives a ridiculous testimony that is

811
00:49:42,560 --> 00:49:45,000
Speaker 3: not consistent at all with the evidence at the scene,

812
00:49:45,080 --> 00:49:47,720
Speaker 3: not consistent at all with the other witnesses at the scene.

813
00:49:48,040 --> 00:49:50,160
Speaker 3: Says that a little girl was shot at the scene.

814
00:49:50,200 --> 00:49:53,680
Speaker 3: There is no NYPD record of a little girl being shot.

815
00:49:53,719 --> 00:49:55,440
Speaker 3: And let me tell you, if a little if a

816
00:49:55,560 --> 00:49:58,719
Speaker 3: child was shot at the scene, Gary bin Loss to

817
00:49:58,840 --> 00:50:02,320
Speaker 3: be doing a lot more than tw twenty five to life, Okay,

818
00:50:02,880 --> 00:50:06,480
Speaker 3: he would be, and there would be absolutely police reports

819
00:50:06,520 --> 00:50:12,120
Speaker 3: indicating that medical reports indicating there wasn't. Anthony Holder completely lies.

820
00:50:12,560 --> 00:50:18,160
Speaker 3: There's not one shred of his testimony that is true.

821
00:50:18,560 --> 00:50:20,960
Speaker 3: And then another witness comes in and says that it

822
00:50:21,000 --> 00:50:24,200
Speaker 3: wasn't Gary Ben Lost. That the defense calls. But what

823
00:50:24,239 --> 00:50:26,560
Speaker 3: the defense failed to do here, which they often do,

824
00:50:27,560 --> 00:50:30,080
Speaker 3: is they failed to put on the nine to one

825
00:50:30,200 --> 00:50:34,759
Speaker 3: one caller that described the shooter as five foot eight,

826
00:50:34,880 --> 00:50:39,280
Speaker 3: dark skin with short hair. The defense failed to cross

827
00:50:39,280 --> 00:50:41,759
Speaker 3: examine let him in Bolton, even though she said that

828
00:50:41,840 --> 00:50:45,120
Speaker 3: Gary ben Lost wasn't the person that she saw firing

829
00:50:45,160 --> 00:50:49,160
Speaker 3: the weapon that day. The jury never heard the description

830
00:50:49,239 --> 00:50:52,839
Speaker 3: of let him in Bolten that the shooter matched the

831
00:50:52,880 --> 00:50:56,239
Speaker 3: description and body type of the victim, who was five

832
00:50:56,280 --> 00:50:59,480
Speaker 3: foot ten, one hundred and sixty eight pounds. That could

833
00:50:59,480 --> 00:51:03,359
Speaker 3: have defiedly proved to the jury. It would have overridden

834
00:51:03,880 --> 00:51:07,919
Speaker 3: the terrible testimony of Anthony Holder. I don't even really

835
00:51:07,960 --> 00:51:11,640
Speaker 3: need to do a reinvestigation here. It's clear Gary is innocent.

836
00:51:11,800 --> 00:51:14,800
Speaker 3: He's been in jail for over twenty years at this point.

837
00:51:16,080 --> 00:51:20,520
Speaker 3: It's a travesty of justice. But it's all too often

838
00:51:20,600 --> 00:51:23,240
Speaker 3: of a story, especially in a place like New York City.

839
00:51:24,280 --> 00:51:26,919
Speaker 3: Eyewitness identification is a real problem in New York City.

840
00:51:27,360 --> 00:51:29,400
Speaker 3: It's all too often of a story, and it is

841
00:51:29,480 --> 00:51:32,280
Speaker 3: just tragic with Gary because he should have never been arrested,

842
00:51:32,440 --> 00:51:36,239
Speaker 3: should have never been charged, and he was just railroaded.

843
00:51:39,200 --> 00:51:42,919
Speaker 2: The traumatic and irreparable effects of wrongful conviction just don't

844
00:51:42,960 --> 00:51:48,120
Speaker 2: affect those wrongfully convicted. It also impacts the lives of

845
00:51:48,200 --> 00:51:51,480
Speaker 2: their families, their communities, and the fabric of our nation.

846
00:51:52,800 --> 00:51:54,800
Speaker 2: Je Ed explain what I mean. I will let you

847
00:51:54,840 --> 00:51:58,080
Speaker 2: share this letter with you all. It was written by

848
00:51:58,080 --> 00:52:01,120
Speaker 2: my beloved son, Isaiah Bellos, who was seventeen years old

849
00:52:01,400 --> 00:52:07,560
Speaker 2: at the time. It reads, Dear Sir Madam, I'm writing

850
00:52:07,560 --> 00:52:11,279
Speaker 2: on behalf of my father, Gary Benross. When I was

851
00:52:11,320 --> 00:52:13,880
Speaker 2: a baby, I never really got the chance to spend

852
00:52:13,920 --> 00:52:16,640
Speaker 2: time and bond with my father until I got older.

853
00:52:17,640 --> 00:52:20,640
Speaker 2: This situation really got to me while I was growing

854
00:52:20,719 --> 00:52:24,719
Speaker 2: up without him. He wasn't there when I first picked

855
00:52:24,800 --> 00:52:29,160
Speaker 2: up a basketball and when I first rode a bike. Also,

856
00:52:29,360 --> 00:52:33,000
Speaker 2: he wasn't there when I graduated elementary and middle school.

857
00:52:33,880 --> 00:52:36,200
Speaker 2: All I wish is for me and him to go

858
00:52:36,320 --> 00:52:40,440
Speaker 2: out and bond with each other. Even though he wasn't

859
00:52:40,480 --> 00:52:44,040
Speaker 2: there for my elementary and middle school years. I hope

860
00:52:44,040 --> 00:52:46,760
Speaker 2: he can be there when I graduated from high school

861
00:52:46,840 --> 00:52:51,080
Speaker 2: in twenty twenty. I hope whoever is reading this you

862
00:52:51,200 --> 00:52:54,680
Speaker 2: find it in your heart to give my father early parole.

863
00:52:54,760 --> 00:53:00,719
Speaker 2: Please thank you in advance, the Sili Isaiah Benloss. That

864
00:53:00,880 --> 00:53:06,680
Speaker 2: was written in April twenty second of twenty nineteen. And

865
00:53:07,160 --> 00:53:10,040
Speaker 2: as you see, I'm still in prison, so he never

866
00:53:10,120 --> 00:53:13,319
Speaker 2: got that wish for me to be there for his

867
00:53:13,440 --> 00:53:20,680
Speaker 2: graduation in June of twenty twenty. The month following his graduation,

868
00:53:21,880 --> 00:53:25,600
Speaker 2: he sent me a card for my birthday and it reads,

869
00:53:25,640 --> 00:53:29,680
Speaker 2: Happy Birthday to the real OG. I just want to

870
00:53:29,719 --> 00:53:32,840
Speaker 2: say thank you for being real with me, believing in

871
00:53:32,880 --> 00:53:36,640
Speaker 2: me when no one did, still being real and never

872
00:53:36,719 --> 00:53:40,320
Speaker 2: switching up and sticking it through even in these hard times.

873
00:53:41,280 --> 00:53:43,719
Speaker 2: I know you can't be out here with me and

874
00:53:43,800 --> 00:53:47,320
Speaker 2: wishing things could have been different, But I always reminded

875
00:53:47,360 --> 00:53:51,160
Speaker 2: myself and never regret what I have, because then I

876
00:53:51,160 --> 00:53:54,560
Speaker 2: wouldn't have you and my amazing girlfriend and family that

877
00:53:54,640 --> 00:53:58,880
Speaker 2: I love daily. I appreciate and love you that Hopefully

878
00:53:59,239 --> 00:54:02,120
Speaker 2: when you get out we can make up for lost times.

879
00:54:02,480 --> 00:54:06,080
Speaker 2: I love your pops to sell your son, Isaiah ben

880
00:54:06,120 --> 00:54:16,440
Speaker 2: Laws again. Those wishes would never be manifested. But just

881
00:54:16,520 --> 00:54:20,520
Speaker 2: a day after receiving this card from my son, he

882
00:54:20,680 --> 00:54:23,880
Speaker 2: was in a tragic car accident that later claimed his life.

883
00:54:24,719 --> 00:54:28,720
Speaker 2: So as I leave you all here with these final thoughts.

884
00:54:29,680 --> 00:54:34,800
Speaker 2: As I studied before, the state of wrongful conviction doesn't

885
00:54:34,960 --> 00:54:40,080
Speaker 2: just impact those wrongful convicted, it also affects the families.

886
00:54:42,960 --> 00:54:54,479
Speaker 1: Thank you, Thank you for listening to Rafel Conviction. I'd

887
00:54:54,520 --> 00:54:57,680
Speaker 1: like to thank our production team Connor Hall, Jeff Cliburn

888
00:54:57,719 --> 00:55:01,160
Speaker 1: and Kevin Wardis with research by Lilah Robinson. The music

889
00:55:01,160 --> 00:55:03,960
Speaker 1: in this production was supplied by three time OSCAR nominated

890
00:55:03,960 --> 00:55:07,719
Speaker 1: composer Jay Ralph. Be sure to follow us on Instagram

891
00:55:07,760 --> 00:55:12,000
Speaker 1: at Wrongful Conviction, on Facebook at Wrongful Conviction Podcast, and

892
00:55:12,120 --> 00:55:15,200
Speaker 1: on Twitter at wrong Conviction, as well as at Lava

893
00:55:15,280 --> 00:55:18,480
Speaker 1: for Good. On all three platforms, you can also follow

894
00:55:18,520 --> 00:55:22,160
Speaker 1: me on both TikTok and Instagram at it's Jason Flam.

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00:55:22,360 --> 00:55:25,160
Speaker 1: Wrongful Conviction is the production of Lava for Good podcast

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00:55:25,200 --> 00:55:29,560
Speaker 1: and association with Signal Company Number one