1 00:00:04,360 --> 00:00:06,080 Speaker 1: There are No Girls on the Internet. As a production 2 00:00:06,120 --> 00:00:14,080 Speaker 1: of iHeartRadio and Unbossed Creative, I'm Bridgett and there are 3 00:00:14,080 --> 00:00:19,279 Speaker 1: no girls on the Internet. So right off the bat, 4 00:00:19,440 --> 00:00:21,680 Speaker 1: this is not going to be a typical there are 5 00:00:21,720 --> 00:00:24,320 Speaker 1: no Girls on the Internet episode. I'm trying out something 6 00:00:24,360 --> 00:00:27,360 Speaker 1: a little bit new because honestly, I just wanted to 7 00:00:27,400 --> 00:00:30,840 Speaker 1: come on here and yap about something that I inadvertently 8 00:00:30,840 --> 00:00:34,320 Speaker 1: found myself mixed up in. Recently, we did an episode 9 00:00:34,320 --> 00:00:37,440 Speaker 1: this week about skinny Talk, this corner of TikTok that 10 00:00:37,600 --> 00:00:41,840 Speaker 1: really pushes and glorifies disordered eating and obsession with body 11 00:00:41,840 --> 00:00:44,840 Speaker 1: image and weight. And in this episode we talked about 12 00:00:44,880 --> 00:00:47,800 Speaker 1: how this is not really a new ideology, but the 13 00:00:47,840 --> 00:00:50,519 Speaker 1: way that it is taking off online for women pushes 14 00:00:50,560 --> 00:00:53,840 Speaker 1: this idea that in addition to being thin, women should 15 00:00:53,840 --> 00:00:57,080 Speaker 1: be making themselves as small as possible and as quiet 16 00:00:57,120 --> 00:01:00,400 Speaker 1: as possible. And the entire thing really seems like telling 17 00:01:00,440 --> 00:01:02,840 Speaker 1: women the best way to be a woman is to 18 00:01:02,880 --> 00:01:04,919 Speaker 1: be one that does not take up too much space 19 00:01:04,959 --> 00:01:07,720 Speaker 1: and does not speak too much. And while I was 20 00:01:07,880 --> 00:01:11,240 Speaker 1: editing this episode and putting it together, this TikTok creator 21 00:01:11,319 --> 00:01:15,240 Speaker 1: named Courtney Joel went mega viral for her advice about 22 00:01:15,240 --> 00:01:18,200 Speaker 1: how women to do exactly that, only she called her 23 00:01:18,319 --> 00:01:22,600 Speaker 1: version getting princess treatment from her husband. And the funny 24 00:01:22,600 --> 00:01:25,560 Speaker 1: thing is, is that to me, what we described in 25 00:01:25,600 --> 00:01:29,200 Speaker 1: that episode and what this TikTok creator Courtney Joel described 26 00:01:29,360 --> 00:01:33,040 Speaker 1: how she's treated by her husband sounded exactly identical. They 27 00:01:33,080 --> 00:01:35,360 Speaker 1: sounded like the same thing to me. So if you've 28 00:01:35,400 --> 00:01:38,160 Speaker 1: not listened to that episode yet, here is what journalist 29 00:01:38,240 --> 00:01:40,520 Speaker 1: Cat ten Barge had to say about how the obsession 30 00:01:40,600 --> 00:01:43,800 Speaker 1: with thinness is also related to this dynamic that tells women, 31 00:01:44,000 --> 00:01:46,800 Speaker 1: in addition to being thin, women should also be very 32 00:01:46,880 --> 00:01:49,040 Speaker 1: quiet to be prioritized. 33 00:01:48,600 --> 00:01:51,560 Speaker 2: Because the ultimate goal of these sort of conservative, very 34 00:01:51,600 --> 00:01:55,000 Speaker 2: misogynistic spaces is that they want women to be small. 35 00:01:55,240 --> 00:01:57,320 Speaker 2: They want women to take up less space, they want 36 00:01:57,320 --> 00:01:59,920 Speaker 2: them to be frail, unable to help themselves, and they 37 00:02:00,040 --> 00:02:03,760 Speaker 2: want them to be very preoccupied with their own appearance 38 00:02:04,080 --> 00:02:07,600 Speaker 2: because it becomes an obsession that distracts from you being 39 00:02:07,600 --> 00:02:10,760 Speaker 2: able to participate in democracy to the fullest extent. It's 40 00:02:10,800 --> 00:02:14,240 Speaker 2: a distraction that prevents women from being able to occupy 41 00:02:14,320 --> 00:02:17,000 Speaker 2: the same positions that men do. So this sort of 42 00:02:17,120 --> 00:02:20,440 Speaker 2: pro eating disorder content is part of this larger picture 43 00:02:20,600 --> 00:02:24,040 Speaker 2: of women's oppression, and it's just no coincidence that like 44 00:02:24,360 --> 00:02:27,399 Speaker 2: the influencers in the all right spaces and the influencers 45 00:02:27,400 --> 00:02:29,919 Speaker 2: in the skinny spaces are using the exact same types 46 00:02:29,960 --> 00:02:30,720 Speaker 2: of strategies. 47 00:02:31,160 --> 00:02:33,400 Speaker 1: It got me thinking about what Kat describes as women 48 00:02:33,440 --> 00:02:35,880 Speaker 1: being kind of unable to help themselves and unable to 49 00:02:35,919 --> 00:02:39,040 Speaker 1: do things for themselves, and honestly, this sounded to me 50 00:02:39,400 --> 00:02:43,640 Speaker 1: as exactly what that TikTok creator por Ajoell described. Part 51 00:02:43,639 --> 00:02:47,000 Speaker 1: of her princess treatment is not having to do things 52 00:02:47,000 --> 00:02:50,200 Speaker 1: for herself and rather having her husband do things for her. 53 00:02:50,639 --> 00:02:53,280 Speaker 1: Here's how she describes the princess treatment that she gets 54 00:02:53,280 --> 00:02:55,600 Speaker 1: from her husband when she's out at a restaurant. And 55 00:02:55,639 --> 00:02:57,320 Speaker 1: we did edit this a bit for clarity. 56 00:02:58,080 --> 00:02:59,360 Speaker 3: Let's talk about princess treatment. 57 00:02:59,360 --> 00:03:01,600 Speaker 4: If you're out a rent on how you interact with 58 00:03:01,639 --> 00:03:03,840 Speaker 4: the white staff and the hostess. If I am at 59 00:03:03,840 --> 00:03:05,720 Speaker 4: a restaurant with my husband, I do not talk to 60 00:03:05,760 --> 00:03:07,920 Speaker 4: the hostess, I do not open many doors, and I 61 00:03:07,960 --> 00:03:09,520 Speaker 4: do not order my own food. 62 00:03:09,560 --> 00:03:13,919 Speaker 1: Having to talk to the hostess. Never the princess is 63 00:03:14,040 --> 00:03:15,400 Speaker 1: kept away from others. 64 00:03:15,080 --> 00:03:15,760 Speaker 5: At all time. 65 00:03:16,280 --> 00:03:19,800 Speaker 1: You know, she describes this complicated rigmarole that her and 66 00:03:19,800 --> 00:03:22,960 Speaker 1: her husband will do to avoid her having to manage 67 00:03:23,000 --> 00:03:25,840 Speaker 1: anything directly with a staff member at a restaurant, like 68 00:03:25,880 --> 00:03:28,359 Speaker 1: her husband will drive her up to the restaurant, get 69 00:03:28,400 --> 00:03:31,320 Speaker 1: out of the car, go inside, talk to the staff, 70 00:03:31,680 --> 00:03:34,920 Speaker 1: come out, open the door, walk her into the restaurant, 71 00:03:35,320 --> 00:03:37,000 Speaker 1: and then he goes to park the car while she 72 00:03:37,080 --> 00:03:37,840 Speaker 1: waits inside. 73 00:03:38,040 --> 00:03:41,360 Speaker 4: It comes back, al opens my car door, walks me 74 00:03:41,440 --> 00:03:44,120 Speaker 4: into the restaurant, opens the door, and I stand and wait. 75 00:03:44,200 --> 00:03:46,480 Speaker 4: I did not make eye contact with the hostess. I 76 00:03:46,480 --> 00:03:49,040 Speaker 4: did not talk to her. I waited until my husband 77 00:03:49,040 --> 00:03:51,760 Speaker 4: came back. He comes back, does the exchange with her, 78 00:03:51,800 --> 00:03:54,000 Speaker 4: and then we went and sat down. It's not in 79 00:03:54,040 --> 00:03:56,480 Speaker 4: any sense like you're better than the hostess. You're just 80 00:03:56,560 --> 00:04:01,520 Speaker 4: letting your husband lead and be bascular. He made the reservation, 81 00:04:02,080 --> 00:04:05,640 Speaker 4: he's taking you out, let him do the logistics. You're 82 00:04:05,760 --> 00:04:08,440 Speaker 4: just being a princess. It's not because you're being hoity toity. 83 00:04:08,800 --> 00:04:12,200 Speaker 4: You're just letting your husband lead and letting him take. 84 00:04:12,080 --> 00:04:12,560 Speaker 5: Care of it. 85 00:04:12,800 --> 00:04:14,680 Speaker 1: She says that while her husband is parking in the car, 86 00:04:14,800 --> 00:04:17,440 Speaker 1: she doesn't really make eye contact or speak with the staff. 87 00:04:17,440 --> 00:04:19,839 Speaker 1: While she's waiting in the restaurant because she's just waiting 88 00:04:19,920 --> 00:04:21,360 Speaker 1: for her husband to come back and do all the 89 00:04:21,360 --> 00:04:23,880 Speaker 1: talking and managing everything. You know, the princess does not 90 00:04:24,000 --> 00:04:27,360 Speaker 1: conduct business. The princess does not make decisions. The princess's 91 00:04:27,440 --> 00:04:29,760 Speaker 1: job is to be silent and pretty and basically just 92 00:04:29,800 --> 00:04:30,640 Speaker 1: do what she's told. 93 00:04:31,200 --> 00:04:33,760 Speaker 4: An over need to like talk and feel space, like 94 00:04:34,040 --> 00:04:36,800 Speaker 4: you don't need to talk unless you are spoken to. 95 00:04:36,920 --> 00:04:38,320 Speaker 4: And then if you are spoken to and I asked, 96 00:04:38,360 --> 00:04:40,679 Speaker 4: you could say, oh, I'm just waiting for my husband, 97 00:04:40,680 --> 00:04:42,320 Speaker 4: and then he'll be able to give the reservation. 98 00:04:43,320 --> 00:04:45,080 Speaker 3: Or you say, oh, I'm so sorry, I'm not sure. 99 00:04:45,480 --> 00:04:47,080 Speaker 4: My husband way back, and then you can ask him 100 00:04:47,240 --> 00:04:48,680 Speaker 4: if you can say it in a very soft and 101 00:04:48,680 --> 00:04:52,479 Speaker 4: feminine way. I know this is going to be ripped apart. 102 00:04:52,520 --> 00:04:54,680 Speaker 4: People will just take things seriously such the wrong way. 103 00:04:54,720 --> 00:04:56,760 Speaker 3: But that's why I would handle it. 104 00:04:56,960 --> 00:04:58,960 Speaker 4: And then let's just go further into So if you're 105 00:04:59,000 --> 00:05:02,800 Speaker 4: sitting down your org in New York, for the most part, 106 00:05:02,839 --> 00:05:03,960 Speaker 4: that the waiter would come up. 107 00:05:04,240 --> 00:05:05,719 Speaker 3: They would ask, you know whatever. 108 00:05:05,800 --> 00:05:07,440 Speaker 4: My husband would start to speak and then the waiter 109 00:05:07,440 --> 00:05:09,320 Speaker 4: would address them, and he would kind of the waiter 110 00:05:09,360 --> 00:05:12,240 Speaker 4: would get the hint, and only then interact with my 111 00:05:12,320 --> 00:05:14,640 Speaker 4: husband here, and so like they don't quite get it. 112 00:05:14,720 --> 00:05:19,520 Speaker 4: I think they think that I'm like being you know, oppressed, 113 00:05:19,600 --> 00:05:21,520 Speaker 4: or I don't know. 114 00:05:21,960 --> 00:05:24,039 Speaker 3: They will they'll be like, what can I get you 115 00:05:24,080 --> 00:05:25,800 Speaker 3: to eat? And I will just look at my husband. 116 00:05:25,960 --> 00:05:27,600 Speaker 4: If they address me first, I will just look at 117 00:05:27,600 --> 00:05:30,640 Speaker 4: my husband and let my husband order. He'll say, oh, 118 00:05:30,680 --> 00:05:32,880 Speaker 4: she's da da da da. And then if they have 119 00:05:32,920 --> 00:05:34,880 Speaker 4: a follow up question like oh, do you want to 120 00:05:34,920 --> 00:05:37,720 Speaker 4: like this? Sometimes I will answer let's say I think 121 00:05:37,760 --> 00:05:39,800 Speaker 4: maybe my husband doesn't know what I would want. 122 00:05:39,839 --> 00:05:41,119 Speaker 3: I will then address the waiter. 123 00:05:42,120 --> 00:05:44,599 Speaker 4: But it's almost like they keep trying to like get 124 00:05:44,640 --> 00:05:46,760 Speaker 4: me to speak, and I'm like, no, I want him 125 00:05:46,800 --> 00:05:48,840 Speaker 4: to order for me. I like when he orders for me. 126 00:05:48,839 --> 00:05:51,159 Speaker 4: It's not that I'm not capable of ordering for myself. 127 00:05:51,200 --> 00:05:53,360 Speaker 4: It's just fun. It's just a fun princess treatment thing. 128 00:05:53,680 --> 00:05:56,039 Speaker 4: It makes me feel special. It makes me just feel 129 00:05:56,080 --> 00:05:58,479 Speaker 4: like over the top taking care of So if the 130 00:05:58,520 --> 00:06:01,280 Speaker 4: waiter addresses you first, I will simply just look at 131 00:06:01,279 --> 00:06:04,440 Speaker 4: my husband and then my husband will order again. You 132 00:06:04,480 --> 00:06:10,160 Speaker 4: don't need to overspeak over exert yourself. 133 00:06:10,760 --> 00:06:12,480 Speaker 3: You can be feminine and soft and quiet. 134 00:06:12,720 --> 00:06:16,360 Speaker 1: Tell me, are these not the same things. So people 135 00:06:16,360 --> 00:06:20,400 Speaker 1: on TikTok basically started calling this creator princess treatment lady 136 00:06:20,480 --> 00:06:23,440 Speaker 1: because of how she makes these videos about how you know, 137 00:06:23,520 --> 00:06:25,520 Speaker 1: she gets this princess treatment when she goes out. She 138 00:06:25,560 --> 00:06:27,920 Speaker 1: doesn't speak when she goes to restaurants, she doesn't make 139 00:06:27,960 --> 00:06:30,320 Speaker 1: eye contact with the staff or the hostess, does not 140 00:06:30,440 --> 00:06:32,560 Speaker 1: verbally order because she waits for her husband to do that. 141 00:06:33,040 --> 00:06:35,040 Speaker 1: She has some other videos, which we'll get to in 142 00:06:35,120 --> 00:06:39,360 Speaker 1: a minute, but this one video about how she behaves 143 00:06:39,400 --> 00:06:42,200 Speaker 1: when she goes out to restaurants with her husband really 144 00:06:42,279 --> 00:06:44,719 Speaker 1: hit a nerve with me. But not for the reason 145 00:06:44,800 --> 00:06:48,360 Speaker 1: that you might be thinking, Yes, this video plays into 146 00:06:48,480 --> 00:06:51,119 Speaker 1: all the kinds of gendered tropes that we talk about 147 00:06:51,160 --> 00:06:53,120 Speaker 1: on their no Girls on the Internet, which will absolutely 148 00:06:53,160 --> 00:06:55,520 Speaker 1: get into in a moment. But the reason why I 149 00:06:55,680 --> 00:06:59,880 Speaker 1: was like essentially deeply triggered from this video is something 150 00:07:00,040 --> 00:07:03,080 Speaker 1: different because, probably, like a lot of y'all listening, my 151 00:07:03,320 --> 00:07:06,039 Speaker 1: career trajectory has involved a lot of working in the 152 00:07:06,080 --> 00:07:08,839 Speaker 1: service industry. You know, I was a hostess at a restaurant. 153 00:07:09,480 --> 00:07:13,160 Speaker 1: I worked as a cashier for multiple different retail establishments 154 00:07:13,200 --> 00:07:15,880 Speaker 1: in my life, jobs where you have to interact with 155 00:07:15,920 --> 00:07:19,360 Speaker 1: the public. Now, these jobs are not inherently bad on 156 00:07:19,400 --> 00:07:22,160 Speaker 1: their own. Some of them were like, actually quite good 157 00:07:22,200 --> 00:07:25,440 Speaker 1: for me. But the thing that can make these jobs 158 00:07:25,760 --> 00:07:28,440 Speaker 1: bad is that when you have to interact with people 159 00:07:28,600 --> 00:07:30,760 Speaker 1: who treat you badly. So it's not even like the 160 00:07:30,880 --> 00:07:33,720 Speaker 1: job itself is that bad. It's the customer sometimes who 161 00:07:33,800 --> 00:07:37,240 Speaker 1: make that job bad. And this is not totally unconnected 162 00:07:37,280 --> 00:07:38,800 Speaker 1: to some of the gender stuff that I do want 163 00:07:38,840 --> 00:07:41,640 Speaker 1: to talk about, at least in my opinion, because there 164 00:07:41,720 --> 00:07:44,600 Speaker 1: absolutely is something about being a young woman or a 165 00:07:44,640 --> 00:07:47,320 Speaker 1: young girl who is basically a sitting duck behind a 166 00:07:47,320 --> 00:07:49,880 Speaker 1: cash register or at a hostess booth, just sort of 167 00:07:49,920 --> 00:07:53,000 Speaker 1: waiting for any kind of interaction that anybody wants to 168 00:07:53,040 --> 00:07:57,680 Speaker 1: have with her. Really, like that is definitely a gendered situation. However, 169 00:07:58,240 --> 00:08:02,360 Speaker 1: my experiences personally were mostly fine, Like I don't really 170 00:08:02,440 --> 00:08:06,360 Speaker 1: have any over the top gross or horrible stories of 171 00:08:06,400 --> 00:08:10,040 Speaker 1: customers being horrible to me, luckily, but I have had 172 00:08:10,080 --> 00:08:12,320 Speaker 1: some weird ones, Like one time I was working as 173 00:08:12,360 --> 00:08:14,520 Speaker 1: a hostess for a fancy restaurant sort of in an 174 00:08:14,760 --> 00:08:19,120 Speaker 1: upscale shopping plaza, and a very fancy lady who had 175 00:08:19,120 --> 00:08:21,800 Speaker 1: been out shopping all day at the nearby stores came 176 00:08:21,840 --> 00:08:24,760 Speaker 1: into the restaurant, and she really expected me to come 177 00:08:24,800 --> 00:08:27,640 Speaker 1: outside from behind the hostess booth, go out to the 178 00:08:27,680 --> 00:08:30,679 Speaker 1: parking lot to her car, carry all of her shopping 179 00:08:30,720 --> 00:08:34,079 Speaker 1: bags from her car to the restaurant, and hold them 180 00:08:34,080 --> 00:08:36,840 Speaker 1: at the hostess stand, because she was very worried that 181 00:08:36,880 --> 00:08:39,200 Speaker 1: her car was going to get broken into and all 182 00:08:39,240 --> 00:08:40,599 Speaker 1: the bags that she had just bought were going to 183 00:08:40,640 --> 00:08:43,440 Speaker 1: get stolen while she was inside of our restaurant having lunch. 184 00:08:43,320 --> 00:08:44,119 Speaker 5: With her girlfriends. 185 00:08:44,160 --> 00:08:48,360 Speaker 1: So that was funny, and I think that experience really 186 00:08:48,559 --> 00:08:51,640 Speaker 1: typifies the kind of weird experiences that I had when 187 00:08:51,640 --> 00:08:54,400 Speaker 1: I was working in the service industry. For me, mostly 188 00:08:54,440 --> 00:08:58,120 Speaker 1: it was really entitled or rude behavior from people who 189 00:08:58,120 --> 00:09:00,640 Speaker 1: didn't seem to clock the staff at they were eating 190 00:09:00,760 --> 00:09:03,800 Speaker 1: as like human beings there to do a job. So 191 00:09:03,880 --> 00:09:07,760 Speaker 1: when I saw this TikTok video taking off, I really 192 00:09:07,880 --> 00:09:10,520 Speaker 1: hated the idea that the advice that she was giving 193 00:09:10,559 --> 00:09:13,120 Speaker 1: to women on how to look classy and refined and 194 00:09:13,160 --> 00:09:17,320 Speaker 1: feminine in public was basically boiling down to be a weird, 195 00:09:17,480 --> 00:09:20,120 Speaker 1: rude dick to the wait staff at restaurants for no 196 00:09:20,360 --> 00:09:24,520 Speaker 1: clear reason, staff who is probably likely being treated badly 197 00:09:24,600 --> 00:09:27,800 Speaker 1: in some capacity already. So I hated that she was 198 00:09:27,800 --> 00:09:30,400 Speaker 1: saying that this behavior is what makes a woman seem 199 00:09:30,480 --> 00:09:33,960 Speaker 1: feminine and classy, when real class is showing respect for 200 00:09:34,000 --> 00:09:36,560 Speaker 1: the people who are there to provide you with a service. 201 00:09:36,600 --> 00:09:38,960 Speaker 1: It is looking them in the eye, it is acknowledging 202 00:09:38,960 --> 00:09:41,079 Speaker 1: them when they're speaking, and saying thank you when they 203 00:09:41,120 --> 00:09:44,520 Speaker 1: do their jobs, and listen. I don't even really hate 204 00:09:44,559 --> 00:09:48,520 Speaker 1: the idea of somebody else ordering. I actually love when 205 00:09:48,559 --> 00:09:51,040 Speaker 1: somebody else at the table kind of takes charge and 206 00:09:51,200 --> 00:09:53,480 Speaker 1: orders for me or orders for the table. But you 207 00:09:53,600 --> 00:09:56,240 Speaker 1: don't have to do this in such a weird, rude 208 00:09:56,280 --> 00:09:59,360 Speaker 1: way where you are refusing to make eye contact with 209 00:09:59,440 --> 00:10:03,280 Speaker 1: the staff. Like that is not classy. That is just rude, 210 00:10:03,320 --> 00:10:06,439 Speaker 1: and we need to not rebrand being rude as this 211 00:10:06,800 --> 00:10:09,719 Speaker 1: marker of status or class for women. Stop it. 212 00:10:14,559 --> 00:10:26,560 Speaker 5: Let's take a quick break at her back. 213 00:10:29,559 --> 00:10:31,880 Speaker 1: So Princess Lady does not want to have to deal 214 00:10:31,960 --> 00:10:34,000 Speaker 1: with the staff, and she's out at her restaurant and 215 00:10:34,120 --> 00:10:37,319 Speaker 1: not having to do so is part of her princess treatment. 216 00:10:37,720 --> 00:10:41,000 Speaker 1: And I guess, like, do whatever you want. Do you 217 00:10:41,160 --> 00:10:43,560 Speaker 1: like if you want the entire front of house of 218 00:10:43,600 --> 00:10:46,360 Speaker 1: a restaurant to be in agreement that you're being weird 219 00:10:46,400 --> 00:10:49,239 Speaker 1: and rude. I guess that's fine. I guess that's your prerogative. 220 00:10:49,400 --> 00:10:52,800 Speaker 1: But what I absolutely do resent is getting on TikTok 221 00:10:52,920 --> 00:10:55,360 Speaker 1: and preaching to women and girls that this is what 222 00:10:55,480 --> 00:10:58,120 Speaker 1: makes you feminine and classy, because it's not, And so 223 00:10:58,440 --> 00:11:02,440 Speaker 1: I resent that she's bringing other women into it. TikTok 224 00:11:02,520 --> 00:11:04,440 Speaker 1: is an app that we know is pretty popular with 225 00:11:04,480 --> 00:11:07,959 Speaker 1: younger folks. Young women and girls, I think especially right now, 226 00:11:08,240 --> 00:11:11,080 Speaker 1: are getting a lot of information about how they are 227 00:11:11,120 --> 00:11:13,920 Speaker 1: meant to be in the world, like should they be feminists, 228 00:11:14,000 --> 00:11:16,560 Speaker 1: should they be conservative? What will make them the most happy? 229 00:11:16,640 --> 00:11:18,400 Speaker 1: What should they be a subpiring toward, what kind of 230 00:11:18,440 --> 00:11:20,680 Speaker 1: value do they have? And we know that a lot 231 00:11:20,720 --> 00:11:23,400 Speaker 1: of young women and girls are using social media to 232 00:11:23,440 --> 00:11:26,720 Speaker 1: help them understand all of that. So I really resent 233 00:11:26,760 --> 00:11:29,600 Speaker 1: it when a grown woman gets on an app like 234 00:11:29,640 --> 00:11:32,600 Speaker 1: TikTok that is so popular with young women and girls 235 00:11:32,800 --> 00:11:35,760 Speaker 1: and basically tells them that being a classy woman means 236 00:11:35,800 --> 00:11:38,600 Speaker 1: being kind of rude to people in service industry positions 237 00:11:38,640 --> 00:11:41,000 Speaker 1: at restaurants and not taking up too much space and 238 00:11:41,040 --> 00:11:43,880 Speaker 1: being really quiet all the time and Honestly, it does 239 00:11:43,960 --> 00:11:47,120 Speaker 1: not surprise me that this video struck a nerve with 240 00:11:47,240 --> 00:11:50,199 Speaker 1: so many people on TikTok, because TikTok had a ton 241 00:11:50,280 --> 00:11:52,439 Speaker 1: of opinions about it. I want to talk through the 242 00:11:52,520 --> 00:11:55,360 Speaker 1: sort of different buckets of opinions that I saw about 243 00:11:55,360 --> 00:11:58,520 Speaker 1: this video on TikTok. So the first one that people 244 00:11:58,720 --> 00:12:02,120 Speaker 1: really were sharing is that this was some sort of 245 00:12:02,520 --> 00:12:05,800 Speaker 1: sexual kink behavior between her and her husband, that her 246 00:12:05,880 --> 00:12:10,600 Speaker 1: husband has some sort of a sexual interest in making 247 00:12:10,800 --> 00:12:15,080 Speaker 1: her as his wife, live this very quiet in public life. 248 00:12:15,160 --> 00:12:18,440 Speaker 1: That it's like a sexual gratification kink. That when they 249 00:12:18,480 --> 00:12:20,760 Speaker 1: go out to restaurants, she's not permitted to speak to 250 00:12:20,800 --> 00:12:23,840 Speaker 1: other people, and that he does all the talking. I 251 00:12:24,120 --> 00:12:26,560 Speaker 1: cannot confirm or deny this is true. A lot of 252 00:12:26,559 --> 00:12:29,160 Speaker 1: people in my comments were like, oh, that's absolutely what 253 00:12:29,200 --> 00:12:32,280 Speaker 1: this is. Trust me, and I'll just say this. I 254 00:12:32,559 --> 00:12:35,520 Speaker 1: you know, here at Tangoti we're very kink positive and 255 00:12:35,640 --> 00:12:39,880 Speaker 1: very sex positive. However, if that actually is the case, 256 00:12:40,240 --> 00:12:43,680 Speaker 1: non consensually involving other people in this is like not 257 00:12:43,840 --> 00:12:46,080 Speaker 1: cool to me. Like if you're a hostess or a 258 00:12:46,120 --> 00:12:47,920 Speaker 1: server at a restaurant and you're really just trying to 259 00:12:47,960 --> 00:12:50,120 Speaker 1: do your job. I don't love the idea of somebody 260 00:12:50,240 --> 00:12:54,800 Speaker 1: non consensually engaging you in their you know, power kink 261 00:12:54,920 --> 00:12:57,720 Speaker 1: play while you're just trying to do your job. Again, 262 00:12:57,880 --> 00:13:00,200 Speaker 1: cannot confirm or deny that is the case, but that 263 00:13:00,320 --> 00:13:02,760 Speaker 1: was one of the big buckets of responses that this 264 00:13:02,880 --> 00:13:07,000 Speaker 1: video did elicit. Another is that she was just doing 265 00:13:07,040 --> 00:13:10,360 Speaker 1: the old school trad wife thing that her husband treats 266 00:13:10,400 --> 00:13:13,280 Speaker 1: her in this way that she maybe feels is demeaning 267 00:13:13,400 --> 00:13:17,240 Speaker 1: or disrespectful, and that how she is responding to it 268 00:13:17,280 --> 00:13:21,240 Speaker 1: is coming on to TikTok and trying to honestly convince 269 00:13:21,400 --> 00:13:24,319 Speaker 1: us as the viewer, but maybe even convince herself a 270 00:13:24,360 --> 00:13:27,440 Speaker 1: little bit that this kind of treatment isn't demeaning. It's 271 00:13:27,520 --> 00:13:30,800 Speaker 1: that it's good treatment, that it's princess treatment. That's that's 272 00:13:30,800 --> 00:13:33,200 Speaker 1: how he is showing that she is prized and valued 273 00:13:33,200 --> 00:13:36,480 Speaker 1: as a feminine woman. Again, I can't confirm or deny 274 00:13:36,559 --> 00:13:38,560 Speaker 1: that that is the case, but I thought that was 275 00:13:38,559 --> 00:13:42,360 Speaker 1: a really interesting response. Another sort of bucket of response. 276 00:13:42,440 --> 00:13:44,520 Speaker 1: I want to be careful on how I talk about 277 00:13:44,720 --> 00:13:47,600 Speaker 1: and it honestly did not feel appropriate to include in 278 00:13:47,640 --> 00:13:49,920 Speaker 1: the episode that we did about skinny talk, but I 279 00:13:50,000 --> 00:13:51,960 Speaker 1: did just want to share that a lot of people 280 00:13:52,000 --> 00:13:54,880 Speaker 1: in the eating Disorder of recovery space reached out to 281 00:13:54,920 --> 00:13:57,920 Speaker 1: me and said that her behavior could have something to 282 00:13:57,960 --> 00:14:01,360 Speaker 1: do with body image. You know, the creator presents as 283 00:14:01,480 --> 00:14:04,480 Speaker 1: very thin in the video. She has a very prominent collarbone, 284 00:14:04,480 --> 00:14:06,920 Speaker 1: and viewers even wondered if she was sort of flexing 285 00:14:06,960 --> 00:14:09,360 Speaker 1: her neck and shoulders while she spoke in this video 286 00:14:09,720 --> 00:14:12,440 Speaker 1: to make it more prominent to do what they call 287 00:14:12,679 --> 00:14:15,960 Speaker 1: body checking, which is essentially using social media to demonstrate 288 00:14:16,000 --> 00:14:18,960 Speaker 1: that you're thin or fit, or demonstrate a specific thing 289 00:14:19,000 --> 00:14:22,440 Speaker 1: about your body. Honestly, it is not surprising to me 290 00:14:22,560 --> 00:14:26,040 Speaker 1: that so many people felt this way. So obviously I 291 00:14:26,080 --> 00:14:28,920 Speaker 1: can't speak to whether or not this is explicitly a 292 00:14:28,960 --> 00:14:31,760 Speaker 1: body image thing, but it does seem to be connected 293 00:14:31,800 --> 00:14:35,120 Speaker 1: to the idea of like being small and that smallness 294 00:14:35,120 --> 00:14:38,400 Speaker 1: having virtue for women, like smallness being something to aspire 295 00:14:38,440 --> 00:14:42,000 Speaker 1: to for women. Another kind of bucket of response that 296 00:14:42,080 --> 00:14:44,440 Speaker 1: I saw was that she's sort of trying to cause 297 00:14:44,560 --> 00:14:48,280 Speaker 1: play a certain kind of old money wealth that whether 298 00:14:48,360 --> 00:14:52,760 Speaker 1: she actually is personally wealthy or not, but she definitely is, 299 00:14:52,840 --> 00:14:55,560 Speaker 1: I think, trying to demonstrate like this is how you 300 00:14:55,640 --> 00:15:00,120 Speaker 1: live an aspirational wealthy lifestyle. And I think that is 301 00:15:00,120 --> 00:15:02,400 Speaker 1: sort of another part of this that makes me kind 302 00:15:02,440 --> 00:15:06,720 Speaker 1: of sad in all this that the idea of connecting 303 00:15:07,080 --> 00:15:09,640 Speaker 1: behavior in restaurants and in public spaces that I think 304 00:15:09,720 --> 00:15:12,480 Speaker 1: is like pretty demeaning and pretty sad. Connecting that was 305 00:15:12,480 --> 00:15:14,760 Speaker 1: something to aspire to. That's like, oh, this is how 306 00:15:14,840 --> 00:15:16,880 Speaker 1: wealthy women behave. This is how you can signal to 307 00:15:16,920 --> 00:15:19,200 Speaker 1: people that you are wealthy and moneyed. I really don't 308 00:15:19,240 --> 00:15:21,920 Speaker 1: love that. So I want to talk about my first 309 00:15:21,960 --> 00:15:26,040 Speaker 1: instincts when I saw this video. Initially, I thought, this 310 00:15:26,080 --> 00:15:28,720 Speaker 1: woman is a conflict entrepreneur. If you don't know what 311 00:15:28,720 --> 00:15:31,960 Speaker 1: a conflict entrepreneur is. When I first learned about that concept, 312 00:15:32,000 --> 00:15:35,680 Speaker 1: it blew my mind, and I started seeing them everywhere online. 313 00:15:35,720 --> 00:15:38,960 Speaker 1: I started being able to use that conflict entrepreneur lens 314 00:15:39,240 --> 00:15:42,160 Speaker 1: to clock the kind of content that people were making 315 00:15:42,200 --> 00:15:45,760 Speaker 1: on social media. So, a conflict entrepreneur is somebody who profits, 316 00:15:45,800 --> 00:15:50,080 Speaker 1: whether it's financially, politically, or socially, from creating, fueling, or 317 00:15:50,120 --> 00:15:53,960 Speaker 1: sustaining conflict. The term usually is meant to call out 318 00:15:54,040 --> 00:15:58,600 Speaker 1: people who intentionally inflame division to gain power, attention, or influence, 319 00:15:58,880 --> 00:16:02,760 Speaker 1: or are trying to monitor ties, outrage or polarization, especially 320 00:16:02,760 --> 00:16:06,400 Speaker 1: on social media platforms, or exploit existing tensions for personal 321 00:16:06,480 --> 00:16:11,680 Speaker 1: or institutional gain. Conflict entrepreneurs are everywhere on social media, 322 00:16:11,760 --> 00:16:14,160 Speaker 1: They're everywhere in our political landscape right now. We kind 323 00:16:14,160 --> 00:16:16,960 Speaker 1: of cannot resist it. And I actually went back and 324 00:16:17,000 --> 00:16:20,320 Speaker 1: looked at some of this creator's earlier content, and honestly, 325 00:16:20,360 --> 00:16:22,680 Speaker 1: I don't even want to really make this conversation too 326 00:16:22,800 --> 00:16:25,520 Speaker 1: much about this one specific creator, because it's really not 327 00:16:25,600 --> 00:16:27,840 Speaker 1: about her. It's about a culture that she's stepping into. 328 00:16:28,040 --> 00:16:31,680 Speaker 1: But it did seem to me that initially she wanted 329 00:16:31,680 --> 00:16:34,880 Speaker 1: to be some sort of an influencer, like a fashion influencer, 330 00:16:35,120 --> 00:16:38,160 Speaker 1: and it perhaps did not really take off, and then 331 00:16:38,200 --> 00:16:40,760 Speaker 1: she sort of switched up her content to talking about 332 00:16:40,760 --> 00:16:43,840 Speaker 1: all this weird princess stuff, princess treatment stuff, and I 333 00:16:43,840 --> 00:16:47,600 Speaker 1: think it hit precisely because it is so off putting 334 00:16:47,640 --> 00:16:50,480 Speaker 1: and weird. So I have to say this, I'm kind 335 00:16:50,520 --> 00:16:53,000 Speaker 1: of calling myself out a little bit here. If indeed 336 00:16:53,040 --> 00:16:56,600 Speaker 1: this creator is kind of doing a low level conflict 337 00:16:56,600 --> 00:16:59,560 Speaker 1: in entrepreneur thing, then I am a little bit guilty 338 00:16:59,600 --> 00:17:03,400 Speaker 1: here because I did exactly what you should not do 339 00:17:03,480 --> 00:17:06,560 Speaker 1: when you encounter a conflict entrepreneur in the wild, which 340 00:17:06,600 --> 00:17:09,440 Speaker 1: is that I made a response to her on TikTok, 341 00:17:09,640 --> 00:17:12,840 Speaker 1: which is absolutely the wrong thing to do, because people 342 00:17:12,880 --> 00:17:16,040 Speaker 1: who are conflict entrepreneurs are intentionally trying to get a 343 00:17:16,080 --> 00:17:18,160 Speaker 1: lot of attention and get a lot of engagement from 344 00:17:18,240 --> 00:17:21,000 Speaker 1: what they're saying. So she is a concept entrepreneur. I 345 00:17:21,080 --> 00:17:23,000 Speaker 1: kind of fucked up. And I don't know, this is 346 00:17:23,040 --> 00:17:25,200 Speaker 1: a little bit embarrassing to admit, but in the last 347 00:17:25,240 --> 00:17:27,359 Speaker 1: few months, I've really been trying to step up my 348 00:17:27,440 --> 00:17:31,800 Speaker 1: own social media game. I kind of went dark on 349 00:17:31,880 --> 00:17:33,800 Speaker 1: all platforms for a while, and I'm just sort of 350 00:17:33,800 --> 00:17:35,640 Speaker 1: coming out of that, and so I'm like, oh, yeah, 351 00:17:35,680 --> 00:17:38,280 Speaker 1: I really need to start, you know, being a little 352 00:17:38,280 --> 00:17:40,840 Speaker 1: bit more visible on these platforms. And so I've been 353 00:17:41,200 --> 00:17:46,640 Speaker 1: intentionally trying to make content about the podcast on TikTok, Instagram, YouTube, 354 00:17:46,760 --> 00:17:48,840 Speaker 1: all of that. And what's so funny to me, and 355 00:17:48,880 --> 00:17:50,879 Speaker 1: I think really says a lot about our social media 356 00:17:50,920 --> 00:17:53,960 Speaker 1: climate right now, is that I make these videos where 357 00:17:54,000 --> 00:17:56,280 Speaker 1: I put so much time and effort into them. I'm 358 00:17:56,280 --> 00:17:59,320 Speaker 1: scripting them, I'm researching them, I'm recording them multiple times. 359 00:17:59,359 --> 00:18:01,040 Speaker 1: I don't have to let somebody tell you that making 360 00:18:01,119 --> 00:18:03,679 Speaker 1: videos on social media is easy, because it's absolutely not. 361 00:18:03,800 --> 00:18:06,200 Speaker 1: It's like why I'm a podcaster, it's because making videos 362 00:18:06,280 --> 00:18:09,360 Speaker 1: is actually hard as fuck. And all of those videos 363 00:18:09,359 --> 00:18:12,720 Speaker 1: that I made with so much care and intention and 364 00:18:12,760 --> 00:18:15,359 Speaker 1: research and framing and dah da da da, all of 365 00:18:15,400 --> 00:18:18,040 Speaker 1: them flopped, Like it is so hard to get anything 366 00:18:18,040 --> 00:18:23,399 Speaker 1: to go to do numbers on social media until I, 367 00:18:23,480 --> 00:18:27,480 Speaker 1: like three cocktails deep, just screwing around in my kitchen, 368 00:18:28,000 --> 00:18:31,440 Speaker 1: made this response to Princess Talk Lady. I'll link the 369 00:18:32,640 --> 00:18:35,080 Speaker 1: video that I made on TikTok in the comments, but 370 00:18:35,520 --> 00:18:38,520 Speaker 1: I just turned on my front facing camera and had 371 00:18:38,520 --> 00:18:41,560 Speaker 1: a little fun boom. It gets almost ten million views. 372 00:18:41,880 --> 00:18:44,399 Speaker 1: And again, the reason why I wanted to make this 373 00:18:44,480 --> 00:18:48,320 Speaker 1: video was because I just thought the whole thing was ridiculous, 374 00:18:48,320 --> 00:18:51,600 Speaker 1: like as somebody who worked in restaurants, It just seemed rude, 375 00:18:51,760 --> 00:18:54,320 Speaker 1: and I thought the conversation was about like the gendered 376 00:18:54,320 --> 00:18:57,000 Speaker 1: aspect of it, which I absolutely think is an important conversation, 377 00:18:57,280 --> 00:18:59,760 Speaker 1: but I just wanted to bring things back down and say, like, 378 00:18:59,840 --> 00:19:02,240 Speaker 1: this behavior is just rude and weird. If you saw 379 00:19:02,280 --> 00:19:04,399 Speaker 1: somebody doing this in real life, you would think they 380 00:19:04,400 --> 00:19:07,399 Speaker 1: were a weirdo. You wouldn't think they were refined or moneyed, 381 00:19:07,480 --> 00:19:09,919 Speaker 1: or cultured, or a princess or pampered, or any of 382 00:19:09,920 --> 00:19:12,760 Speaker 1: the things that she's trying to say that this behavior 383 00:19:12,840 --> 00:19:15,119 Speaker 1: is indicative of. You would actually think they were like 384 00:19:15,119 --> 00:19:18,640 Speaker 1: a maladjusted, weird person. And I think it's so easy 385 00:19:18,920 --> 00:19:21,520 Speaker 1: to log on to social media and essentially lied to 386 00:19:21,600 --> 00:19:24,800 Speaker 1: people and sell them really a false bill of goods 387 00:19:24,800 --> 00:19:26,760 Speaker 1: and say, oh, if you behave this way in public, 388 00:19:26,840 --> 00:19:28,760 Speaker 1: people are going to think all this great stuff about you, 389 00:19:28,840 --> 00:19:31,120 Speaker 1: when in reality, you are setting people up to look 390 00:19:31,160 --> 00:19:33,760 Speaker 1: weird as shit. And I just really wanted to bring 391 00:19:33,840 --> 00:19:37,080 Speaker 1: the conversation back down to that. Also, what's funny is 392 00:19:37,119 --> 00:19:39,439 Speaker 1: that once I woke up and saw that video had 393 00:19:39,440 --> 00:19:41,640 Speaker 1: almost ten million views, I was like, oh my god, 394 00:19:41,800 --> 00:19:44,720 Speaker 1: what happens next? You know, I am like, like, what 395 00:19:44,720 --> 00:19:47,760 Speaker 1: should I do? If you're angling to go viral on 396 00:19:47,800 --> 00:19:50,399 Speaker 1: social media? Let me tell you nothing happens next. That's it. 397 00:19:50,800 --> 00:19:53,400 Speaker 1: There's nothing. Nobody sends you a check, nobody does anything. 398 00:19:53,880 --> 00:19:54,920 Speaker 1: Everything is the same. 399 00:20:00,080 --> 00:20:12,879 Speaker 6: More after a quick break, let's get right back into it. 400 00:20:15,680 --> 00:20:19,000 Speaker 1: So I wanted to get into my personal take on 401 00:20:19,080 --> 00:20:21,480 Speaker 1: this video, why she made it, what it says about 402 00:20:21,480 --> 00:20:24,520 Speaker 1: our culture. So I do think that this is about 403 00:20:24,800 --> 00:20:27,919 Speaker 1: womanhood and sort of being a prized version of a woman, 404 00:20:28,520 --> 00:20:31,399 Speaker 1: also meaning being small and quiet, and I really just 405 00:20:31,480 --> 00:20:34,399 Speaker 1: don't like it. It kind of became a visualization for 406 00:20:34,480 --> 00:20:37,600 Speaker 1: me of how regressive some of our conversation around gender 407 00:20:37,800 --> 00:20:40,280 Speaker 1: has become, because if you go to that video, a 408 00:20:40,320 --> 00:20:42,520 Speaker 1: lot of women in her comments were agreeing with her. 409 00:20:42,560 --> 00:20:44,879 Speaker 1: A lot of women in her comments were saying, this 410 00:20:44,960 --> 00:20:47,440 Speaker 1: is how my husband treats me. You know, I love 411 00:20:47,520 --> 00:20:50,200 Speaker 1: being pampered. I love being a princess. I love when 412 00:20:50,200 --> 00:20:52,760 Speaker 1: he lets me turn off my brain and handles everything. 413 00:20:52,760 --> 00:20:55,080 Speaker 1: I don't even know anything about where we are right now. 414 00:20:55,400 --> 00:20:57,840 Speaker 1: I want to be clear. Women should be themselves. Like, 415 00:20:57,880 --> 00:21:00,399 Speaker 1: if you are a quiet person or an anxious person, 416 00:21:00,440 --> 00:21:03,560 Speaker 1: or an introverted person, that's cool. If you want to 417 00:21:03,600 --> 00:21:05,480 Speaker 1: go to restaurants and not have to talk that much, 418 00:21:05,880 --> 00:21:07,840 Speaker 1: you should do you should do you like, do what 419 00:21:07,840 --> 00:21:09,640 Speaker 1: makes you feel comfortable. Do it makes you feel right 420 00:21:09,680 --> 00:21:13,000 Speaker 1: and safe. But I simply do not like the idea 421 00:21:13,040 --> 00:21:15,199 Speaker 1: that why a woman should be doing this is to 422 00:21:15,400 --> 00:21:19,400 Speaker 1: mold themselves into what they think will make men think 423 00:21:19,440 --> 00:21:22,760 Speaker 1: that they're moneyed or pampered or prized or you know, 424 00:21:23,200 --> 00:21:25,720 Speaker 1: the right type of woman, Like we should be doing 425 00:21:25,760 --> 00:21:28,320 Speaker 1: things because they feel right to us, not because we're 426 00:21:28,320 --> 00:21:30,399 Speaker 1: trying to signal to other people about what kind of 427 00:21:30,400 --> 00:21:33,040 Speaker 1: person we actually are. And I also think it's really 428 00:21:33,080 --> 00:21:35,639 Speaker 1: related to this trend that I honestly don't love, and 429 00:21:35,640 --> 00:21:38,359 Speaker 1: I've seen it on social media a lot about babying 430 00:21:38,720 --> 00:21:42,600 Speaker 1: and babifying grown women. You know, she has another video 431 00:21:42,640 --> 00:21:45,600 Speaker 1: where she talks about how her husband ties her shoes, 432 00:21:45,640 --> 00:21:47,480 Speaker 1: Like she doesn't even really tie her own shoes. She 433 00:21:47,520 --> 00:21:48,720 Speaker 1: has her husband do it for her. 434 00:21:49,000 --> 00:21:51,480 Speaker 4: You just let him have control, You let him take 435 00:21:51,520 --> 00:21:54,880 Speaker 4: care of you. So that's baseline. I don't really tie 436 00:21:54,920 --> 00:21:57,440 Speaker 4: my shoes. He does that for me. Like if there's 437 00:21:57,480 --> 00:22:00,439 Speaker 4: any sort of like weather, a predicament, like it's like 438 00:22:00,480 --> 00:22:02,439 Speaker 4: he's gonna, you know, cover me and make sure I 439 00:22:02,480 --> 00:22:03,080 Speaker 4: get in the door. 440 00:22:03,160 --> 00:22:04,800 Speaker 3: First, he's gonna pull. 441 00:22:04,680 --> 00:22:06,280 Speaker 4: Around so that I can hop into the building, and 442 00:22:06,320 --> 00:22:08,880 Speaker 4: then he's gonna go park the car. Like any kind 443 00:22:08,920 --> 00:22:11,520 Speaker 4: of like minor inconvenience he's gonna take care of. Like 444 00:22:11,560 --> 00:22:13,520 Speaker 4: he does certain chories around the house that I don't 445 00:22:13,520 --> 00:22:17,720 Speaker 4: want to do, he does those for me. Basically, you 446 00:22:17,720 --> 00:22:20,360 Speaker 4: can get as silly and ridiculous as you want. He 447 00:22:20,400 --> 00:22:22,320 Speaker 4: brings me lemon tea every single night. That's a part 448 00:22:22,320 --> 00:22:24,199 Speaker 4: of my princess treatment. He like tucks me in and 449 00:22:24,240 --> 00:22:25,920 Speaker 4: make sure that my blankets on the bed and that 450 00:22:26,000 --> 00:22:29,240 Speaker 4: I have all my like little thingies if I need anything. 451 00:22:28,880 --> 00:22:30,679 Speaker 3: In the house. You know, say I'm sitting and watching 452 00:22:30,680 --> 00:22:31,160 Speaker 3: a show. 453 00:22:31,000 --> 00:22:32,800 Speaker 4: And I want I want a cookie or a treat 454 00:22:32,880 --> 00:22:35,240 Speaker 4: or an orange, whatever it is, Like, can you peel 455 00:22:35,240 --> 00:22:35,640 Speaker 4: me an orange? 456 00:22:35,680 --> 00:22:36,760 Speaker 3: She's gonna peel me in orange. 457 00:22:36,760 --> 00:22:38,199 Speaker 4: I think it's fun to be the princess when I'm 458 00:22:38,200 --> 00:22:39,720 Speaker 4: with him and turn my brain up, Like in the airport, 459 00:22:39,760 --> 00:22:41,359 Speaker 4: I turn my brain up more traveling. I turn my 460 00:22:41,400 --> 00:22:42,919 Speaker 4: brain up like I don't know where we are, I 461 00:22:42,920 --> 00:22:44,320 Speaker 4: don't know what time we have to be there. You're 462 00:22:44,359 --> 00:22:46,520 Speaker 4: taking care of that. I'm just here to be pretty. 463 00:22:47,080 --> 00:22:48,760 Speaker 4: And I said, I have another video, and people like 464 00:22:49,080 --> 00:22:50,720 Speaker 4: take it so literally, but you kind of have to 465 00:22:50,720 --> 00:22:54,880 Speaker 4: think of it as like fun and silly to get 466 00:22:54,920 --> 00:22:58,840 Speaker 4: yourself into that princess treatment mode because we've been so 467 00:22:59,119 --> 00:23:01,440 Speaker 4: trained to be like, no, I'm a girl boss, I 468 00:23:01,480 --> 00:23:02,320 Speaker 4: can do everything for myself. 469 00:23:02,320 --> 00:23:04,760 Speaker 3: I can do everything for myself. But really, like remove 470 00:23:04,880 --> 00:23:07,440 Speaker 3: that and let him take care of it. 471 00:23:07,840 --> 00:23:10,840 Speaker 1: And I know that you're probably thinking that sounds very extreme, 472 00:23:11,160 --> 00:23:13,640 Speaker 1: but if you are on TikTok or on social media, 473 00:23:13,720 --> 00:23:17,159 Speaker 1: you've probably seen less extreme offshoots of this that I 474 00:23:17,200 --> 00:23:19,359 Speaker 1: think are kind of the same thing. Right. I saw 475 00:23:19,400 --> 00:23:21,480 Speaker 1: a girl wearing a shirt on TikTok that said I'm 476 00:23:21,480 --> 00:23:23,879 Speaker 1: too hot to work, which I think is the same 477 00:23:24,080 --> 00:23:27,159 Speaker 1: kind of dynamic, or this idea of like, oh, I 478 00:23:27,200 --> 00:23:30,520 Speaker 1: don't dream of labor, which initially I really liked that 479 00:23:30,600 --> 00:23:33,320 Speaker 1: slogan because it kind of seemed like an anti capitalistic, 480 00:23:33,400 --> 00:23:36,639 Speaker 1: anti work slogan, and I liked it. But now I 481 00:23:36,680 --> 00:23:39,080 Speaker 1: think it's sort of being turned into a way to 482 00:23:39,119 --> 00:23:41,720 Speaker 1: not just glorify the idea of women not working, but 483 00:23:41,840 --> 00:23:45,400 Speaker 1: glorify the idea of like women not aspiring to live 484 00:23:45,520 --> 00:23:48,520 Speaker 1: adult lives where they are in control of their lives, 485 00:23:49,040 --> 00:23:52,040 Speaker 1: women saying things like I'm literally just a girl. You're 486 00:23:52,080 --> 00:23:54,919 Speaker 1: not a girl, You're a grown adult woman. And I 487 00:23:54,920 --> 00:23:58,040 Speaker 1: think there's not a coincidence that we're seeing this rebrand 488 00:23:58,160 --> 00:24:00,760 Speaker 1: of women not being in control of their finances or 489 00:24:00,800 --> 00:24:04,360 Speaker 1: their lives being rebranded as cool and fun and sexy 490 00:24:04,680 --> 00:24:07,720 Speaker 1: at a time where our rights are literally being rolled back. 491 00:24:08,000 --> 00:24:11,440 Speaker 1: I know that anti feminists love to say that feminism 492 00:24:11,480 --> 00:24:14,320 Speaker 1: scammed white women into thinking that working and paying taxes 493 00:24:14,320 --> 00:24:17,719 Speaker 1: and paying bills was liberation. I say white women because 494 00:24:18,040 --> 00:24:21,080 Speaker 1: non white women like me were really never included in this, 495 00:24:21,160 --> 00:24:22,720 Speaker 1: Like we had to work outside of the home. This 496 00:24:22,840 --> 00:24:25,320 Speaker 1: is a totally different conversation for us that we were 497 00:24:25,480 --> 00:24:29,040 Speaker 1: not really involved in. And like when anti feminists say this, 498 00:24:29,320 --> 00:24:32,120 Speaker 1: I get it. I truly really do get it, because 499 00:24:32,160 --> 00:24:35,040 Speaker 1: I feel like as women, we literally there is genuinely 500 00:24:35,119 --> 00:24:38,280 Speaker 1: so much on us that I can understand how saying 501 00:24:38,640 --> 00:24:41,040 Speaker 1: wouldn't it feel like liberation to not have all of 502 00:24:41,040 --> 00:24:43,119 Speaker 1: this stress, to not have all of these bills and 503 00:24:43,200 --> 00:24:45,480 Speaker 1: jobs to worry about, but just stay home and not work. 504 00:24:45,720 --> 00:24:48,600 Speaker 1: And staying at home if you are a parent, is 505 00:24:48,760 --> 00:24:51,920 Speaker 1: work and is stress. Ask anybody who stays at home 506 00:24:51,960 --> 00:24:54,200 Speaker 1: to parent their kids. It's not like they're living the high, 507 00:24:54,400 --> 00:24:57,720 Speaker 1: not stressful life, So that's not even really true. I 508 00:24:57,880 --> 00:25:00,720 Speaker 1: truly truly do get that. I also think that we 509 00:25:00,760 --> 00:25:03,800 Speaker 1: are not talking to our mothers, to our grandmothers, to 510 00:25:03,840 --> 00:25:07,000 Speaker 1: our aunties about what life truly looked like and felt 511 00:25:07,040 --> 00:25:10,160 Speaker 1: like when that was the norm for women, Like women 512 00:25:10,200 --> 00:25:12,880 Speaker 1: could only have our own bank accounts without a man 513 00:25:13,320 --> 00:25:16,240 Speaker 1: in nineteen seventy four, after the Equal Credit Opportunity Act 514 00:25:16,320 --> 00:25:18,560 Speaker 1: kicked in, right, And so imagine what that would have 515 00:25:18,640 --> 00:25:21,119 Speaker 1: been like to be so out of control of your 516 00:25:21,160 --> 00:25:23,080 Speaker 1: own finances that you would have to have your husband 517 00:25:23,400 --> 00:25:26,040 Speaker 1: be on your own bank account to have access to money. 518 00:25:26,240 --> 00:25:28,119 Speaker 1: And so I don't think this is something that we 519 00:25:28,160 --> 00:25:30,960 Speaker 1: should be normalizing or glorifying. I don't think we should 520 00:25:31,000 --> 00:25:35,560 Speaker 1: be normalizing or glorifying grown adult women bragging about how 521 00:25:35,640 --> 00:25:38,879 Speaker 1: they are not in control of their own lives. And 522 00:25:38,960 --> 00:25:41,399 Speaker 1: I say all this to say that her video, on 523 00:25:41,480 --> 00:25:44,720 Speaker 1: its face, is about how it's cool to and feminine 524 00:25:44,720 --> 00:25:47,200 Speaker 1: to like not tie your own shoes and not make 525 00:25:47,280 --> 00:25:49,800 Speaker 1: eye contact and order at a restaurant, and how it's 526 00:25:49,840 --> 00:25:52,560 Speaker 1: good for women to be quiet. I think it normalizes 527 00:25:52,920 --> 00:25:55,960 Speaker 1: women not being able to show up on their own 528 00:25:56,119 --> 00:25:59,160 Speaker 1: in public and civic life, which we know is connected 529 00:25:59,160 --> 00:26:01,639 Speaker 1: to women not being able to show up in democratic 530 00:26:01,760 --> 00:26:05,080 Speaker 1: or political life as well. I know it's very trite 531 00:26:05,119 --> 00:26:07,680 Speaker 1: to compare what we're seeing happening today with Handmaid's Tale, 532 00:26:07,720 --> 00:26:11,080 Speaker 1: especially since everything that happened in Handmaid's Tale, while it 533 00:26:11,119 --> 00:26:14,040 Speaker 1: may seem like a dystopian fiction for white women. A 534 00:26:14,040 --> 00:26:16,160 Speaker 1: lot of what happens to the women in Handmaid's Tale 535 00:26:16,240 --> 00:26:19,520 Speaker 1: actually happened to enslaved black women's. It's not like dystopian 536 00:26:19,600 --> 00:26:22,600 Speaker 1: faraway fiction for us. But if you've seen the Hulu 537 00:26:22,760 --> 00:26:25,719 Speaker 1: series The Handmaid's Tale, one of the first clues that 538 00:26:25,800 --> 00:26:28,440 Speaker 1: something is up is how women on their own are 539 00:26:28,480 --> 00:26:31,399 Speaker 1: treated in public, Like a man screams at these two 540 00:26:31,440 --> 00:26:34,000 Speaker 1: women who are jogging in athletic clothing and makes them 541 00:26:34,080 --> 00:26:36,680 Speaker 1: leave a cafe. Does a scene early on where all 542 00:26:36,800 --> 00:26:38,439 Speaker 1: Rad goes to the bank and she finds out that 543 00:26:38,440 --> 00:26:40,679 Speaker 1: her bank account has been closed and her assets has 544 00:26:40,720 --> 00:26:43,560 Speaker 1: been taken because she's on that account by herself and 545 00:26:43,600 --> 00:26:46,920 Speaker 1: not with her husband. Before everything goes straight to hell 546 00:26:47,160 --> 00:26:50,960 Speaker 1: in that universe, it first just becomes normal for women 547 00:26:51,040 --> 00:26:52,959 Speaker 1: not to be able to do any of the errands 548 00:26:53,040 --> 00:26:55,320 Speaker 1: or business in public life that they need to do 549 00:26:55,800 --> 00:26:58,600 Speaker 1: on their own without a man. So I think glamorizing 550 00:26:58,640 --> 00:27:01,120 Speaker 1: all of this and trying to all of this as 551 00:27:01,320 --> 00:27:04,439 Speaker 1: being good for women and a way to live that 552 00:27:04,560 --> 00:27:08,840 Speaker 1: is pampered and safe and protected, is very dangerous. We 553 00:27:08,920 --> 00:27:12,080 Speaker 1: are not children. We can work jobs. If you've got 554 00:27:12,080 --> 00:27:14,679 Speaker 1: to work jobs, We can certainly tie our own shoes, 555 00:27:14,760 --> 00:27:16,560 Speaker 1: we can talk to the staff, we can sort out 556 00:27:16,560 --> 00:27:18,720 Speaker 1: the bill. All of the things that adults have to 557 00:27:18,800 --> 00:27:21,960 Speaker 1: navigate to be part of society, we can do as women. 558 00:27:22,240 --> 00:27:24,359 Speaker 1: And it is not cute to me to act like 559 00:27:24,400 --> 00:27:28,080 Speaker 1: it's desirable to be treated otherwise. And so even if 560 00:27:28,080 --> 00:27:31,040 Speaker 1: this is a skit, or this is a character she's playing, 561 00:27:31,160 --> 00:27:34,240 Speaker 1: or she's trolling, or just a low level conflict entrepreneur, 562 00:27:34,640 --> 00:27:36,639 Speaker 1: I just don't think it's cool to get on an 563 00:27:36,680 --> 00:27:38,680 Speaker 1: app where there are so many young women and girls 564 00:27:38,720 --> 00:27:41,639 Speaker 1: who are very impressionable and facing a lot of different 565 00:27:41,680 --> 00:27:44,560 Speaker 1: conflicting information about how who they should be right now 566 00:27:44,840 --> 00:27:47,240 Speaker 1: and say that all of this is indicative of a 567 00:27:47,240 --> 00:27:50,000 Speaker 1: woman who has a good life. So, after this video 568 00:27:50,119 --> 00:27:54,120 Speaker 1: went super viral, the creator, Courtney Joelle, took her account 569 00:27:54,160 --> 00:27:56,280 Speaker 1: down for a little while. Everybody was like, oh, where'd 570 00:27:56,320 --> 00:27:58,640 Speaker 1: she go? Where she go? Then she popped back up 571 00:27:58,720 --> 00:28:01,760 Speaker 1: with a couple of thousand new followers. When I last check, 572 00:28:01,840 --> 00:28:03,760 Speaker 1: she was at like sitting at like thirty seven k 573 00:28:03,920 --> 00:28:05,960 Speaker 1: new followers, and she was pretty excited about all of this. 574 00:28:06,240 --> 00:28:09,160 Speaker 1: She continued to sort of lean into this. She made 575 00:28:09,200 --> 00:28:12,080 Speaker 1: a video about how to maintain what she calls princess feet. 576 00:28:12,640 --> 00:28:15,960 Speaker 1: I actually kind of weirdly like love that she is, like, Yeah, 577 00:28:16,040 --> 00:28:18,120 Speaker 1: I'm just gonna make the best of this. I'm gonna 578 00:28:18,160 --> 00:28:20,520 Speaker 1: lean into this. This is the kind of content I 579 00:28:20,600 --> 00:28:23,000 Speaker 1: make now. And I think it is a good reminder 580 00:28:23,040 --> 00:28:25,960 Speaker 1: that when one person becomes the internet's main character, as 581 00:28:25,960 --> 00:28:28,720 Speaker 1: they say, for something that is maybe a little bit suspect, 582 00:28:29,040 --> 00:28:31,040 Speaker 1: when we give them a ton of attention. Yes I 583 00:28:31,080 --> 00:28:34,280 Speaker 1: am fully including myself in this, it just allows them 584 00:28:34,280 --> 00:28:36,960 Speaker 1: to grow and like solidifies them as somebody with a 585 00:28:37,040 --> 00:28:39,960 Speaker 1: voice that people should be listening to. And so what 586 00:28:40,080 --> 00:28:42,160 Speaker 1: makes me sort of sad about this whole thing is 587 00:28:42,200 --> 00:28:45,440 Speaker 1: that she's really sort of pivoting into being this kind 588 00:28:45,440 --> 00:28:49,160 Speaker 1: of boring, bland lifestyle influencer. Like I watched the video 589 00:28:49,200 --> 00:28:52,040 Speaker 1: that she made after the Princess Treatment video that was 590 00:28:52,120 --> 00:28:54,320 Speaker 1: just her doing her Trader Joe's hall, and it was like, 591 00:28:54,520 --> 00:28:56,560 Speaker 1: literally the most boring thing, Like, Yeah, you go to 592 00:28:56,600 --> 00:28:58,760 Speaker 1: Trader Joe's just like everybody else. You be, you're shopping 593 00:28:58,760 --> 00:29:01,040 Speaker 1: for the week, just like everybody else. You buy kale 594 00:29:01,080 --> 00:29:02,800 Speaker 1: at Trader Joke, just like everybody else. Like it just 595 00:29:02,840 --> 00:29:05,520 Speaker 1: seemed very very boring. It was the kind of lifestyle 596 00:29:05,600 --> 00:29:08,640 Speaker 1: influencer content that is a dim ad dozen on social media. 597 00:29:08,720 --> 00:29:11,720 Speaker 1: But I want to be clear, there is nothing wrong 598 00:29:11,760 --> 00:29:14,280 Speaker 1: with wanting to be an influencer, But I don't know. 599 00:29:14,320 --> 00:29:18,240 Speaker 1: Women are so vast and interesting and complicated and challenging 600 00:29:18,320 --> 00:29:20,680 Speaker 1: that I was that little disappointed. I have to say 601 00:29:20,680 --> 00:29:22,640 Speaker 1: when I checked back in with her content and it 602 00:29:22,680 --> 00:29:25,480 Speaker 1: was just the same boring influencer stick that is all 603 00:29:25,520 --> 00:29:28,320 Speaker 1: over social media. There doesn't seem to be any joy 604 00:29:28,600 --> 00:29:31,280 Speaker 1: or passion or authenticity to it. It's just a sort 605 00:29:31,280 --> 00:29:36,239 Speaker 1: of muted, boring here's my trader Joe's hall. And it 606 00:29:36,320 --> 00:29:39,000 Speaker 1: reminded me of something else that she said in her 607 00:29:39,040 --> 00:29:42,640 Speaker 1: initial Princess Treatment restaurant video, which is that one of 608 00:29:42,680 --> 00:29:46,560 Speaker 1: the things that she avoids in public space to avoid 609 00:29:46,600 --> 00:29:50,400 Speaker 1: taking up too much space is laughing too loudly when 610 00:29:50,440 --> 00:29:52,560 Speaker 1: she goes out to eat at restaurants, Like she says, 611 00:29:52,800 --> 00:29:55,640 Speaker 1: I don't really laugh, I don't talk too loud. I 612 00:29:55,640 --> 00:29:57,000 Speaker 1: don't want to take up too much space, so I 613 00:29:57,000 --> 00:29:58,080 Speaker 1: don't laugh very loudly. 614 00:29:58,600 --> 00:30:02,040 Speaker 4: The most elegant, lovely women are often soft spoken and 615 00:30:02,160 --> 00:30:06,520 Speaker 4: don't overspeak. They're not loud. Maybe let's also talk about that, 616 00:30:06,720 --> 00:30:10,080 Speaker 4: You're not going to be laughing loudly, speaking loudly, demanding 617 00:30:10,160 --> 00:30:11,840 Speaker 4: the attention of the room. When you're at a restaurant, 618 00:30:11,840 --> 00:30:15,800 Speaker 4: you're with your husband, your boyfriend, whoever fiance, you're speaking 619 00:30:15,840 --> 00:30:19,360 Speaker 4: to him, eye contact with him, the attention is kind. 620 00:30:19,200 --> 00:30:19,800 Speaker 3: Of on him. 621 00:30:19,880 --> 00:30:22,440 Speaker 4: You're not laughing so loudly that everyone in the room 622 00:30:22,480 --> 00:30:25,920 Speaker 4: is looking at you, or speaking so loudly that everyone 623 00:30:25,960 --> 00:30:27,080 Speaker 4: in the room is looking towards you. 624 00:30:27,640 --> 00:30:29,920 Speaker 1: And this is honestly the thing that just made me 625 00:30:30,040 --> 00:30:33,440 Speaker 1: very sad, because if she is indeed cashing in on 626 00:30:33,480 --> 00:30:36,400 Speaker 1: her viral moment to become a lifestyle influencer, which like 627 00:30:36,600 --> 00:30:38,560 Speaker 1: good for her, No shade I would do the same thing. 628 00:30:39,080 --> 00:30:43,000 Speaker 1: Being an influencer is about making your life look aspirational, 629 00:30:43,240 --> 00:30:46,400 Speaker 1: making you seem like someone that other people would want 630 00:30:46,480 --> 00:30:49,080 Speaker 1: to be themselves. Who would want to have a life 631 00:30:49,080 --> 00:30:52,000 Speaker 1: where they're not able to laugh loudly? Who would a 632 00:30:52,000 --> 00:30:56,600 Speaker 1: surpier to that kind of passionless, joyless existence, Because a 633 00:30:56,640 --> 00:31:01,320 Speaker 1: good deep, loud belly laugh over and plates at a 634 00:31:01,400 --> 00:31:03,560 Speaker 1: restaurant with all of your friends and family at the 635 00:31:03,600 --> 00:31:08,000 Speaker 1: table is truly truly one of life's pure joys, All 636 00:31:08,080 --> 00:31:10,280 Speaker 1: of my best memories of being out with my family 637 00:31:10,440 --> 00:31:13,840 Speaker 1: sound like that, Just like my mom sucking at a 638 00:31:13,840 --> 00:31:16,880 Speaker 1: bunch of air and giving us a big, deep, guttural 639 00:31:17,040 --> 00:31:20,680 Speaker 1: belly laugh. Who would deny themselves this in service of 640 00:31:20,720 --> 00:31:24,560 Speaker 1: wanting to seem classy or refined or feminine to others. 641 00:31:24,960 --> 00:31:26,640 Speaker 1: When I think about the kind of life that I 642 00:31:26,680 --> 00:31:28,960 Speaker 1: aspire to have, it is a full life. It is 643 00:31:29,000 --> 00:31:30,680 Speaker 1: a big life. It is a life where I take 644 00:31:30,760 --> 00:31:32,800 Speaker 1: up a lot of space. And you know what, if 645 00:31:32,800 --> 00:31:36,120 Speaker 1: there's one thing this life has in it, it is big, deep, 646 00:31:36,360 --> 00:31:41,040 Speaker 1: loud belly laughs in abundance. Anyway, I just wanted to 647 00:31:41,040 --> 00:31:42,920 Speaker 1: come on here and yap about this for a little bit. 648 00:31:43,160 --> 00:31:45,320 Speaker 1: Let me know what you think. If you're listening on Spotify, 649 00:31:45,360 --> 00:31:47,080 Speaker 1: you can tell me in the comments. I love reading 650 00:31:47,120 --> 00:31:49,640 Speaker 1: the Spotify comments. It's the best thing Spotify ever did 651 00:31:49,720 --> 00:31:51,760 Speaker 1: is turning on those episode comments because I love to 652 00:31:51,800 --> 00:31:54,080 Speaker 1: read them. Yeah, tell me what you think. Did you 653 00:31:54,120 --> 00:31:57,240 Speaker 1: see this video? Can check out my kind of cringe 654 00:31:57,280 --> 00:32:00,720 Speaker 1: embarrassing response to her in the show notes. And if 655 00:32:00,760 --> 00:32:03,760 Speaker 1: you all like this vibe of episode where I'm just 656 00:32:03,840 --> 00:32:06,640 Speaker 1: sort of getting on here and giving you a little 657 00:32:06,800 --> 00:32:11,600 Speaker 1: unstructured bridget takes and opinions about digital culture. Let me know, 658 00:32:11,720 --> 00:32:14,080 Speaker 1: because I have a lot of takes that I currently 659 00:32:14,160 --> 00:32:16,480 Speaker 1: shout at my friends and family, and if you'd rather 660 00:32:16,560 --> 00:32:18,800 Speaker 1: me shout them at you into this microphone, I'll be 661 00:32:18,800 --> 00:32:24,720 Speaker 1: happy to do that. If you're looking for ways to 662 00:32:24,720 --> 00:32:27,360 Speaker 1: support the show, check out our March store at tenggody 663 00:32:27,360 --> 00:32:31,000 Speaker 1: dot com slash store. Got a story about an interesting 664 00:32:31,040 --> 00:32:33,080 Speaker 1: thing in tech, or just want to say hi, You 665 00:32:33,080 --> 00:32:35,360 Speaker 1: can reach us at Hello at tenggody dot com. You 666 00:32:35,360 --> 00:32:38,440 Speaker 1: can also find transcripts for today's episode at tengody dot com. 667 00:32:38,600 --> 00:32:40,280 Speaker 1: There Are No Girls on the Internet was created by 668 00:32:40,280 --> 00:32:43,280 Speaker 1: me Bridget Tod. It's a production of iHeartRadio and Unbossed 669 00:32:43,280 --> 00:32:47,760 Speaker 1: Creative edited by Joey pat Jonathan Strickland is our executive producer. 670 00:32:48,080 --> 00:32:51,320 Speaker 1: Tari Harrison is our producer and sound engineer. Michael Almada 671 00:32:51,400 --> 00:32:54,400 Speaker 1: is our contributing producer. I'm your host, Bridget Todd. If 672 00:32:54,400 --> 00:32:56,120 Speaker 1: you want to help us grow, rate and review us 673 00:32:56,120 --> 00:32:59,760 Speaker 1: on Apple Podcasts. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, check out 674 00:32:59,760 --> 00:33:02,760 Speaker 1: the radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. 675 00:33:08,280 --> 00:33:08,760 Speaker 1: Mm hmm