WEBVTT - Bonus: An interview with The Lincoln Project co-founder Steve Schmidt 0:00:00.120 --> 0:00:04.560 I'm Katie Curic, and welcome to Next Question. So I'm 0:00:04.600 --> 0:00:06.920 back in the city for a few days and away 0:00:06.960 --> 0:00:10.920 from my usual recording setups. So I apologize if I 0:00:11.039 --> 0:00:14.239 sound a little bit like I'm underwater, but I just 0:00:14.440 --> 0:00:17.959 had such a fascinating conversation with Steve Schmidt, and I 0:00:18.000 --> 0:00:20.480 wanted to get this episode out into the world as 0:00:20.520 --> 0:00:24.439 quickly as possible. You probably have heard of Steve before. 0:00:24.560 --> 0:00:28.200 He's a longtime Republican strategist, and he was the campaign 0:00:28.280 --> 0:00:32.159 manager for John McCain's two thousand eight presidential bid. In 0:00:32.200 --> 0:00:36.600 other words, he's a real Republicans Republican, but two years 0:00:36.640 --> 0:00:40.280 ago he quit the GOP and now, as co founder 0:00:40.320 --> 0:00:43.680 of the Lincoln Project, he's channeled all of his energy 0:00:44.080 --> 0:00:48.199 into defeating President Trump. We talked about what led him 0:00:48.240 --> 0:00:51.440 to renounce the party he's been loyal to for thirty years, 0:00:51.840 --> 0:00:55.360 what to expect during this final sprint to election day, 0:00:55.600 --> 0:00:58.600 and how he thinks Trump is um will impact our 0:00:58.600 --> 0:01:04.920 political system for many years to come. You renounced your 0:01:04.920 --> 0:01:08.679 membership in the Republican Party in two thousand eighteen, and 0:01:08.760 --> 0:01:11.280 you have said you are going to vote for Joe 0:01:11.319 --> 0:01:16.880 Biden absolutely. What was it that made you say, I 0:01:16.880 --> 0:01:20.800 don't want to be a Republican anymore. Well, the Republican 0:01:20.880 --> 0:01:23.800 Party by two thousand eighteen, and my view had become 0:01:23.880 --> 0:01:27.600 fully the party of Trump, and Trump is um and 0:01:27.720 --> 0:01:31.760 I think that we know more today than we did 0:01:31.840 --> 0:01:34.080 even in two thousand eighteen. The straw that broke the 0:01:34.160 --> 0:01:38.120 commis back for me were the children's detention and family 0:01:38.160 --> 0:01:41.720 breakup policies at the at the Southern border, and I 0:01:41.800 --> 0:01:46.759 just think they were appalling. They were immoral policies. They 0:01:46.800 --> 0:01:51.280 harkened back to the worst abuses in our country's history, 0:01:51.400 --> 0:01:55.600 the separation of families at the slave auction blocks, separation 0:01:55.960 --> 0:01:59.920 of Indian children from their families in the latter night 0:02:00.000 --> 0:02:03.920 teenth century, and that did it for me. What we 0:02:04.000 --> 0:02:08.800 see now, though, right is Trump is um fully formed, rooted. 0:02:09.280 --> 0:02:13.520 It's an ideology, it has meaning, and the Republican Party's 0:02:13.600 --> 0:02:16.720 platform and this is important because it's the third oldest 0:02:16.760 --> 0:02:21.400 political party in the world. It formed in eighteen fifty four. 0:02:21.840 --> 0:02:28.000 Republican Party of two thousand and twenty exists fully as 0:02:28.040 --> 0:02:32.240 an instrument for Donald Trump. It's a cult of personality. 0:02:32.639 --> 0:02:36.360 The evidence of that is the platform. With the platform 0:02:36.440 --> 0:02:41.720 requires is obedience to Donald Trump and loyalty to Donald Trump. 0:02:42.240 --> 0:02:46.920 That's the full meaning of Republicanism now, and that trump 0:02:47.040 --> 0:02:53.320 is ideology is one that is illiberal, anti democratic, bad 0:02:53.440 --> 0:02:57.280 for the country and the party that is the vessel 0:02:57.360 --> 0:03:02.000 for it, that has been the handmaidens to the cantactrophy. 0:03:02.160 --> 0:03:05.840 That's befall in this country. It's the Republican Party. You 0:03:05.960 --> 0:03:08.920 started something called the Lincoln Project. What is the goal 0:03:08.960 --> 0:03:12.040 of the Lincoln Project, Steve, It's to defeat Trump. And 0:03:12.040 --> 0:03:15.440 Trump is um, plain and simple as that plain and 0:03:15.560 --> 0:03:18.680 simple as that um. When when you look at the 0:03:18.720 --> 0:03:26.360 Republican Convention, there were three features to it. There was 0:03:26.560 --> 0:03:32.000 breath taking line of the type that you see in 0:03:32.120 --> 0:03:36.840 no healthy democracy anywhere in the world. One but was 0:03:36.960 --> 0:03:40.360 unprecedented in the political history of the country. From the 0:03:40.520 --> 0:03:45.480 from the gavel coming down right to begin it to 0:03:45.600 --> 0:03:50.240 the gavel coming down to end it, you saw utter lawlessness, 0:03:51.640 --> 0:03:56.240 flat out breaking and violating of dozens of federal laws 0:03:56.280 --> 0:03:59.640 that have to do with preventing the use of taxpayer 0:03:59.760 --> 0:04:05.400 dialars for partisan causes, the use of federal property. And then, lastly, 0:04:05.480 --> 0:04:10.200 and and really ominously, you saw the seizure of important 0:04:10.240 --> 0:04:14.240 symbols of the American Republic, of the of the state. 0:04:15.160 --> 0:04:19.240 You saw Trump take those symbols the White House for 0:04:19.320 --> 0:04:24.360 instants turn it into a partisan totem and an expression 0:04:24.440 --> 0:04:28.160 of his authority. So what does that all mean, Well, 0:04:28.160 --> 0:04:33.600 it means in essence that he's saying, I am the truth, 0:04:34.480 --> 0:04:39.039 I am the law, and I am the state. No 0:04:39.200 --> 0:04:46.880 thank you, and that ideology. He knew how deadly this 0:04:47.080 --> 0:04:54.000 virus was. He knew it. The Republican senators knew that. 0:04:54.120 --> 0:05:00.480 He knew. He lied to the country hundreds of times 0:05:00.560 --> 0:05:06.760 downplayed this. It's the biggest, greatest, deadliest lie in the 0:05:06.960 --> 0:05:11.919 history of the United States. That's the moment we're in, 0:05:12.360 --> 0:05:16.760 and it has decimated the economy, broken a million dreams, 0:05:17.080 --> 0:05:21.160 and has fundamentally ended the American way of life. There 0:05:21.160 --> 0:05:24.120 are many people who follow me on social media and 0:05:24.160 --> 0:05:28.400 they will say Steve Schmidt is biased. They described the 0:05:28.560 --> 0:05:33.440 media as communicating fake news. If that, in fact is 0:05:33.560 --> 0:05:38.000 the case and true, why does President Trump enjoy so 0:05:38.160 --> 0:05:42.040 much support Still? I think that there's two issues, and 0:05:42.080 --> 0:05:44.599 I think people get confused on them. Right, there's a 0:05:44.760 --> 0:05:49.960 there's a political question and there's a sociological question. And 0:05:50.000 --> 0:05:52.800 so let's start with the political question. That The political 0:05:52.880 --> 0:05:55.120 question is is that where you look right now in 0:05:55.240 --> 0:05:59.440 this where this race is, Joe Biden has a bigger 0:05:59.560 --> 0:06:02.960 lead Obama did, has a bigger lead that Bush did 0:06:03.080 --> 0:06:06.560 had as a bigger lead than Bill Clinton did. Here 0:06:06.640 --> 0:06:12.920 is a commanding lead. The majority of this country rejects Trump, 0:06:13.200 --> 0:06:17.680 and Trump is um and wants him gone. You look 0:06:17.720 --> 0:06:20.640 at the swing states right now, Biden is in a 0:06:20.680 --> 0:06:25.880 strong position. Donald Trump is losing the race. The second 0:06:25.920 --> 0:06:31.359 issue is a sociological question, And and at least a 0:06:31.520 --> 0:06:35.440 third of the country is in thrall to a cult 0:06:35.480 --> 0:06:39.800 of personality, and so for fort pent of the country, 0:06:40.120 --> 0:06:43.000 the millions of people who ascribed to Q and on 0:06:43.839 --> 0:06:49.640 who are poisoned by social media, by disinformation that's both 0:06:49.760 --> 0:06:55.160 organic and state sponsored um by a president who's lied 0:06:55.240 --> 0:06:59.520 twenty five thousand times and has let loose hundreds of 0:07:00.040 --> 0:07:06.040 Brascy theories. You have a billion dollar anger industry through 0:07:06.120 --> 0:07:10.680 extreme media in this country, and and all of it 0:07:10.720 --> 0:07:15.520 accounts for a number that's way too big in a 0:07:15.600 --> 0:07:21.080 healthy democracy that hasn't just surrendered their agency to a 0:07:21.120 --> 0:07:26.000 political leader, but have opted out of reality in some 0:07:26.120 --> 0:07:30.280 fundamental ways. And and the truth is, there is such 0:07:30.400 --> 0:07:35.080 thing as objective truth and fact. Then the wholesale rejection 0:07:35.200 --> 0:07:42.320 of it is authoritarian. You don't see that in democratic societies, 0:07:42.360 --> 0:07:46.080 and it should make everybody understand the degree to which 0:07:46.160 --> 0:07:51.080 the system is blinking yellow to red because of it. 0:07:52.720 --> 0:07:57.239 Let's get a little more granular. Steve has shove Biden 0:07:57.360 --> 0:08:01.040 up seven to eight points in national polls, also up 0:08:01.080 --> 0:08:06.600 in Arizona, Pennsylvania, Wisconsin, Michigan, North Carolina. President Trump appears 0:08:06.640 --> 0:08:10.320 to be closing the gap in Florida. So is it 0:08:10.480 --> 0:08:13.119 all going to get down to? As our late friend 0:08:13.160 --> 0:08:17.880 Tim Russert said in two thousand, Florida, Florida, Florida, I 0:08:17.920 --> 0:08:26.520 think Florida is is incredibly important for a couple of reasons. Um. First, 0:08:27.440 --> 0:08:31.640 Trump's made clear in a way that is completely alien 0:08:31.800 --> 0:08:36.160 to every other president, right like democracy requires someone being 0:08:36.200 --> 0:08:41.600 willing to lose, being willing to say we hear the 0:08:41.679 --> 0:08:46.600 voters get you next time. Trump Trump has inferred time 0:08:46.640 --> 0:08:50.880 and time again that unless he wins, the election is illegitimate. 0:08:52.040 --> 0:08:55.839 And there are a thousand bad things that I can 0:08:55.880 --> 0:08:58.920 think of off the top of my head, right that 0:08:59.080 --> 0:09:02.760 that flowed from that from violence in the streets uh 0:09:02.840 --> 0:09:08.000 to chaotic paralyzed government, a constitutional crisis. We should pay 0:09:08.000 --> 0:09:12.880 attention on Roger Stone, clown and criminal though he may 0:09:12.920 --> 0:09:17.800 be communicating to Donald Trump through the television, which is 0:09:17.840 --> 0:09:22.240 how you communicate to Donald Trump about seizing absolute power 0:09:22.280 --> 0:09:26.480 in the country. So Florida, right, Florida makes it very 0:09:26.600 --> 0:09:31.840 hard if Biden wins decisively there for Trump to make 0:09:32.440 --> 0:09:36.520 the legitimacy claim, because it means he's gonna lose big 0:09:36.559 --> 0:09:39.520 all over the country and it could be an early night. 0:09:40.080 --> 0:09:43.640 Nobody wants to see this election go on for weeks 0:09:43.679 --> 0:09:46.680 and months. So when you look at Florida right now, 0:09:47.200 --> 0:09:53.840 Trump is overperforming with Hispanic voters, and he is underperforming 0:09:53.880 --> 0:09:57.800 at a historical level with senior voters. And so Mike 0:09:57.800 --> 0:10:01.240 Bloomberg is gonna spend a hundred million dollar US in Florida. 0:10:01.400 --> 0:10:03.640 I think Donald Trump's in a lot of trouble there. 0:10:04.520 --> 0:10:09.400 If the election were tomorrow, he would lose. But Republican state, 0:10:10.120 --> 0:10:14.640 Republican governor. The COVID crisis has been a disaster there. 0:10:15.320 --> 0:10:21.000 The governor's a D S c has rival Trump's. But um, 0:10:21.080 --> 0:10:23.280 it will it will be a it will be a 0:10:23.280 --> 0:10:26.920 state that bears watching. Um And if Biden wins it. 0:10:26.920 --> 0:10:30.599 It's all over early on election, right. Why are Hispanics 0:10:30.640 --> 0:10:34.760 still trending towards Donald Trump? In Florida you have a 0:10:34.760 --> 0:10:41.719 lot of um human population obviously, but also Venezuelan uh 0:10:41.840 --> 0:10:47.760 South American that is triggered by the socialism message, which 0:10:47.800 --> 0:10:51.720 hasn't been rebutted effectively by the Democrats of the Biden campaign, 0:10:52.559 --> 0:10:55.440 you know, in the in the state now the way 0:10:55.480 --> 0:10:57.920 to go after those voters. I think he's on a 0:10:57.960 --> 0:11:02.040 corruption message, right. You know, they didn't necessarily leave their 0:11:02.120 --> 0:11:06.080 countries to come to America because of the politics of 0:11:06.120 --> 0:11:10.280 the government, whether it was you know, right of center Colombia, 0:11:10.720 --> 0:11:15.559 UM socialist, Venezuela, communist Cuba. Why they left was because 0:11:15.600 --> 0:11:19.839 of the corruption. It's just endemic to all of those systems. 0:11:20.040 --> 0:11:23.280 And you know, the ability to focus on Trump's corruption 0:11:24.120 --> 0:11:27.840 and you know that they see that quality coming to 0:11:27.880 --> 0:11:31.680 American life, right, would would be an effective message there. 0:11:32.160 --> 0:11:36.440 Who else is this socialism message resonating with that has 0:11:36.480 --> 0:11:41.679 not been effectively rebutted by the Biden administration, that somehow 0:11:42.480 --> 0:11:47.640 Biden presidency would be co opted by the extreme left. 0:11:48.400 --> 0:11:52.800 I think that there's a a a broad, a deep 0:11:53.040 --> 0:12:01.840 It extremely sophisticated multi layered propaganda UH network UM that 0:12:01.880 --> 0:12:08.440 includes Fox News, includes talk radio, includes Facebook chat sites, 0:12:09.280 --> 0:12:14.959 includes O. A. N and Alex Jones. And if you 0:12:15.120 --> 0:12:19.800 if you listen to the to the accumulation of it all, UM, 0:12:19.920 --> 0:12:24.199 you think America's cities or burning right now? That New 0:12:24.280 --> 0:12:29.720 York City, UM looks like something from Escape from New York, 0:12:29.800 --> 0:12:33.520 the movie in the late nine seventies. That that America's 0:12:33.520 --> 0:12:43.720 cities are burning, that chaos is at hands, that UM, socialism, Antifa, 0:12:44.040 --> 0:12:48.400 all of these things are about to descend upon America. 0:12:49.160 --> 0:12:53.040 And and there is there is a far too large 0:12:53.160 --> 0:12:57.040 number you know that that buys into it. I mean, look, 0:12:57.080 --> 0:13:00.480 we're we're going to see our first members of Congress 0:13:00.600 --> 0:13:04.360 who are a Cuban on conspiracy theorists, right, this is 0:13:04.400 --> 0:13:08.400 this is a conspiracy theory built around the fact that 0:13:09.200 --> 0:13:13.319 much of the governing class of the country or cannibalistic pedophiles, 0:13:14.000 --> 0:13:17.160 and Donald Trump is working secretly with the military to 0:13:17.280 --> 0:13:23.319 break up the ring and it's a global phenomenon. Is 0:13:23.360 --> 0:13:25.640 the genie out of the bottle, Steve. When it comes 0:13:25.720 --> 0:13:31.320 to that kind of false information getting perpetuated by all 0:13:31.400 --> 0:13:36.160 these people that you cited, it might be. Look, you 0:13:36.280 --> 0:13:40.720 have you have an Oregon you have reports of right 0:13:40.720 --> 0:13:45.840 wing militia setting up roadside checkpoints and just had to 0:13:45.840 --> 0:13:52.000 be rebuked by the sheriff's office. You see these cami, 0:13:52.360 --> 0:13:58.880 these these Hawaiian shirt clad boogaloo boys right storming state capitals. 0:14:00.080 --> 0:14:07.120 We ye. The reality is is that all of that 0:14:07.440 --> 0:14:10.880 is a minority of the country. And I wish those 0:14:10.920 --> 0:14:14.760 people well, I do. I wish them no harm. But 0:14:15.800 --> 0:14:19.520 we can't be ruled over by them, is what the is. 0:14:19.520 --> 0:14:23.240 What the point is is the the country has been 0:14:23.280 --> 0:14:30.320 pitched into a unbelievably precipitous decline over a over a 0:14:30.360 --> 0:14:36.600 short period of time, and it's being propelled by all 0:14:37.040 --> 0:14:44.720 of the pathogens that I just described, the combination of unreasonableness, 0:14:45.760 --> 0:14:51.280 outright insanity, opting out of out of reality, opting out 0:14:51.320 --> 0:14:57.520 of opting out now, and it's it's it's bad. Let's 0:14:57.520 --> 0:15:02.600 talk about another key demographic group that each candidate is 0:15:02.640 --> 0:15:06.240 fighting for. We're talking about white suburban women. Now. Trump 0:15:06.280 --> 0:15:09.760 won white women in two thousand and sixteen against Hillary 0:15:09.840 --> 0:15:15.120 Clinton by nine I mean a lot of trouble now 0:15:15.520 --> 0:15:22.200 with white women. Explain that, Well, what white suburban women 0:15:22.920 --> 0:15:27.400 the the issue more than any other issue that that 0:15:27.480 --> 0:15:30.840 has peeled them off of him is his embrace of 0:15:30.960 --> 0:15:36.200 all of the racial animals and going back to George Floyd, 0:15:36.400 --> 0:15:42.359 to the embrace of the Confederate flag, that that demographic 0:15:42.440 --> 0:15:45.520 in his country is just repelled by it. And so 0:15:46.320 --> 0:15:48.560 he is in a lot of trouble in the in 0:15:48.640 --> 0:15:55.120 the suburbs, and everybody is affected by by COVID. You know, 0:15:55.200 --> 0:15:57.800 I don't I don't say lightly that the American way 0:15:58.160 --> 0:16:01.200 of life has ended, but it but it has right, 0:16:01.200 --> 0:16:04.480 Like I mean, you can't go and be with a 0:16:04.600 --> 0:16:08.440 parent and end of life decision. The grandparents can't go 0:16:08.520 --> 0:16:13.440 to see the birth of their grandkids, weddings, birthdays or 0:16:13.560 --> 0:16:19.520 mitzvah's communions, tailgates, football, and the list goes on all 0:16:20.120 --> 0:16:23.520 over the and and none of it, none of it 0:16:23.600 --> 0:16:28.480 had a big more with political strategists and Lincoln Project 0:16:28.520 --> 0:16:42.600 co founder Steve Schmidt. Right after this, let's talk about 0:16:42.600 --> 0:16:45.880 the law and order message. That is the old chestnut 0:16:45.960 --> 0:16:50.640 that Republicans often return return to in campaigns. The Trump 0:16:50.640 --> 0:16:56.320 administration is using it. It's not very effective, or is it. Well, 0:16:57.080 --> 0:17:01.480 it's it has not been It has not been effective, 0:17:02.280 --> 0:17:07.080 but it doesn't mean that it doesn't have the potential 0:17:07.200 --> 0:17:11.880 to be in in certain places that that message is aimed, 0:17:12.520 --> 0:17:15.160 if you want to break it down demographically at non 0:17:15.240 --> 0:17:19.840 college educated white male voters, particularly in the rust Belt states. 0:17:20.920 --> 0:17:25.159 But each time he delivers that message, he hurts himself 0:17:25.760 --> 0:17:31.119 with college educated, suburban women voters, particularly in the in 0:17:31.119 --> 0:17:35.920 in the sun Belt states, right in Florida, in Arizona. 0:17:36.200 --> 0:17:40.240 So he's in a death spiral, so to speak, because 0:17:40.240 --> 0:17:44.600 the message they've decided to communicate, the fear based message 0:17:45.080 --> 0:17:50.600 on the crime, is pulling share from them with one demographic, 0:17:51.240 --> 0:17:54.360 you know, with slight to marginal gains in a in another. 0:17:54.440 --> 0:18:00.199 But you look, if it is, it is jarring to 0:18:00.359 --> 0:18:07.119 watch some primetime Fox News right the depiction of what's 0:18:07.119 --> 0:18:11.320 happening in the in the in the country is this 0:18:11.520 --> 0:18:21.080 dystopian healthscape positioning Trump as the defender of Western civilization. Um, 0:18:21.119 --> 0:18:26.800 it's remarkable. It doesn't appear to be persuading people. Um. 0:18:26.800 --> 0:18:30.800 But you know for that for that Trump base, you know, 0:18:30.960 --> 0:18:36.199 does it maintain their intensity? Sure it does? Um. You know, 0:18:36.320 --> 0:18:41.760 has Trump effectively been able to use these issues to 0:18:42.080 --> 0:18:46.720 distract from having to answer questions about COVID? He absolutely 0:18:46.720 --> 0:18:51.120 has um. And but that's what it's about, right, It's 0:18:51.160 --> 0:18:56.320 about It's about a failure. It's literally the greatest failure 0:18:56.320 --> 0:19:00.720 in American history, COVID. And he wants to do anything 0:19:00.800 --> 0:19:05.359 he can to try to make the race about something else. 0:19:05.400 --> 0:19:08.440 And and here's the reality of the of the two 0:19:08.520 --> 0:19:15.040 thousand and sixteen elections. The the person who was losing 0:19:15.040 --> 0:19:18.879 that race was the person that the race was about. 0:19:19.800 --> 0:19:25.040 And for of the race, Donald Trump was losing because 0:19:25.080 --> 0:19:28.320 it was about him, and James Comey made it about 0:19:28.400 --> 0:19:31.680 Hillary Clinton in the last week and Donald Trump won 0:19:31.760 --> 0:19:35.879 by seventy eight thousand votes across three states. He's going 0:19:35.920 --> 0:19:39.879 to try to do everything he can to make the 0:19:40.000 --> 0:19:45.439 race about something other than what it is about. And 0:19:45.440 --> 0:19:49.840 what it's about is the biggest failure in American history. 0:19:49.920 --> 0:19:53.800 Sitting behind the Resolute desk, you believe the Democrats have 0:19:53.920 --> 0:19:58.080 not been effective enough in refuting the socialism argument. What 0:19:58.200 --> 0:20:01.919 about the law and order our commits, Steve Half, The 0:20:01.960 --> 0:20:05.080 Democrats have been strong enough saying that most of the 0:20:05.119 --> 0:20:09.040 protests have been peaceful, but they do not tolerate some 0:20:09.200 --> 0:20:16.480 of the crime. I think the stakes are so enormously 0:20:16.560 --> 0:20:21.680 high in the selection, so enormously high. Um, I think 0:20:21.720 --> 0:20:26.680 the country is on the line, and so therefore anything 0:20:27.960 --> 0:20:36.679 that bets Trump's campaign is a bad thing. And so 0:20:37.240 --> 0:20:39.399 when you look at the civil rights leaders of the 0:20:39.520 --> 0:20:47.160 nineteen sixties, John Lewis, Martin, Luther King, they were two things, 0:20:47.200 --> 0:20:49.560 and we only remember the one or talk about the 0:20:49.600 --> 0:20:56.640 one right. They were profoundly important moral figures. They imbued 0:20:56.640 --> 0:21:03.240 this movement with justice and righteousness, and it was fueled 0:21:03.400 --> 0:21:08.439 by the morality of non violence. And what what it 0:21:08.520 --> 0:21:13.840 what had proved is the dignity of the movement and 0:21:13.880 --> 0:21:18.320 the justice right that it was, that it was striving, 0:21:18.400 --> 0:21:20.399 that it was striving to achieve. The second part is 0:21:20.440 --> 0:21:24.840 they were really smart political strategists. They were really smart. 0:21:25.680 --> 0:21:30.000 They moved public opinion to their side. So like, let's 0:21:30.040 --> 0:21:34.720 look at Portland's right. Here's an idea, get away from 0:21:34.720 --> 0:21:44.560 the federal courthouse. Deny oxygen to the federal stormtroopers, unbadged math, 0:21:45.520 --> 0:21:51.280 no ideas, be smart in the tactics there. There there 0:21:51.280 --> 0:22:00.400 should be no tolerance for looting, for disorder, for villions 0:22:00.480 --> 0:22:05.560 in cities. And you see, the mayor of Portland's is 0:22:05.600 --> 0:22:09.360 every bit the incompetent right that the mayor of New 0:22:09.440 --> 0:22:14.040 York is that the governor of Florida is right. We've 0:22:14.040 --> 0:22:19.359 seen some profoundly incompetent political leadership, most of it in 0:22:19.400 --> 0:22:23.879 the Republican Party, but some of it in the Democratic Party. 0:22:24.320 --> 0:22:29.919 And Democratic leaders should absolutely make clear right that the 0:22:29.960 --> 0:22:34.399 burning and looting of a city for any is intolerable. Intolerable, 0:22:35.080 --> 0:22:40.080 let's talk about blue colored voters. Listen to this quote 0:22:40.080 --> 0:22:43.639 by a thirty year old electrician in Ohio from an 0:22:43.720 --> 0:22:47.399 article on the Economists quote, He's done a great job. 0:22:47.680 --> 0:22:52.680 He's got everyone back to work. I'm pretty much for him. 0:22:52.720 --> 0:22:56.280 Another pipe fitter added, he shoots his mouth off, but 0:22:56.359 --> 0:23:00.200 at least that shows he's honest. What's your reaction into 0:23:00.240 --> 0:23:05.840 those statements? Um? I think the Democratic Party has a 0:23:06.160 --> 0:23:09.959 has a cultural problem. I was asked at a dinner 0:23:10.200 --> 0:23:12.600 with a lot of Democrats to what would what would 0:23:12.640 --> 0:23:17.120 my advice be for this for this election, and that 0:23:17.320 --> 0:23:21.040 I answered it like this. I said, imagine that there's 0:23:21.080 --> 0:23:23.880 a building going up in New York City, though there's 0:23:23.880 --> 0:23:28.000 a rural example for this also, and that building is 0:23:28.040 --> 0:23:31.440 eighty stories high and there's hundreds of people working on it. 0:23:31.960 --> 0:23:35.280 First Democratic candidate for president walks by the building and 0:23:35.320 --> 0:23:38.199 they just don't notice anyone there, like the people that 0:23:38.240 --> 0:23:41.359 are working on it are just invisible to them. Um, 0:23:41.400 --> 0:23:45.280 they would fall into the category of what FDR talked 0:23:45.320 --> 0:23:49.080 about is the invisible man, the forgotten man. The second 0:23:49.119 --> 0:23:53.560 Democratic candidate walks by the site and sees the men 0:23:53.600 --> 0:23:57.080 and women working on it, sees tattoos, see cigarette smoking, 0:23:57.119 --> 0:24:00.000 and sees the ploricals it says, none of these people 0:24:00.000 --> 0:24:01.960 will be out in East Hampton this summer, thank god. 0:24:02.880 --> 0:24:07.960 UM just doesn't care for them. Third candidate walks by 0:24:07.960 --> 0:24:10.600 that building site and what they see is the dignity 0:24:10.600 --> 0:24:15.760 of labor. What they what they see are people doing 0:24:15.920 --> 0:24:21.440 hard jobs, dangerous jobs, necessary jobs, doing things whether it's 0:24:21.480 --> 0:24:24.520 wiring and welding eight d feet in the air, that 0:24:24.560 --> 0:24:27.480 they couldn't do themselves in a million years. I mean, 0:24:27.520 --> 0:24:31.200 that's the Democratic Party that Harry Truman and John Kennedy 0:24:31.200 --> 0:24:36.160 and Bobby Kenny and Bill Clinton would have would have recognized, right. 0:24:36.280 --> 0:24:40.959 And and there is a there is elitism right in condescension, 0:24:41.760 --> 0:24:45.680 right that flows from the elites of this country towards 0:24:45.720 --> 0:24:48.320 the working class people in this country. In the eyes 0:24:48.320 --> 0:24:50.919 of a lot of working class people, and one of 0:24:50.960 --> 0:24:54.240 the vessels one of the institutions, right that that does 0:24:54.280 --> 0:24:58.520 that to them or the Democratic parties politicians, you know, 0:24:58.680 --> 0:25:06.359 when people are laz about manufacturing jobs, all of these things. 0:25:06.960 --> 0:25:11.159 You know, Trump speaks in a language um that resonates 0:25:11.200 --> 0:25:14.080 with with some of them. During the campaign in two 0:25:14.160 --> 0:25:17.160 thousand and sixteen, Donald Trumps that he could shoot someone 0:25:17.200 --> 0:25:23.880 on Fifth Avenue and his supporters would still support him. 0:25:23.920 --> 0:25:27.600 In many ways. That's a very few statement, isn't it. 0:25:27.640 --> 0:25:35.320 Look thirty three thirty four of the country wherever, wherever 0:25:35.359 --> 0:25:38.880 you want to peg the number, no problem, I mean, 0:25:40.200 --> 0:25:47.639 you you have. I mean Trump's demagoguery is spectacular. But 0:25:47.760 --> 0:25:52.160 the trend line existed before before Trump and in an 0:25:52.160 --> 0:25:57.280 election has become a type of war, type of battle 0:25:57.359 --> 0:26:01.160 where the vote right is is cast for a lot 0:26:01.160 --> 0:26:04.680 of people in this country to inflict harm on their 0:26:04.720 --> 0:26:10.119 other enemy tribes. And that's what it is now. You 0:26:10.200 --> 0:26:12.280 look at some of the cultural stuff. I mean, look, 0:26:12.320 --> 0:26:14.639 we know when Trump goes out and you know, says 0:26:14.720 --> 0:26:17.800 stand up for the flag, you know, and embraces the 0:26:17.840 --> 0:26:21.280 cops and the and the fireman in the way that 0:26:21.359 --> 0:26:26.760 he does. Now, all of it is demagoguic. In the 0:26:26.880 --> 0:26:33.920 extreme right because he is depicting this civil war literally 0:26:34.520 --> 0:26:37.160 in the country where the cities are burning, where he's 0:26:37.320 --> 0:26:41.640 shown such hostility to the democratic cities, the Democratic States, 0:26:43.000 --> 0:26:45.600 And you know, there there's a market for it, and 0:26:46.119 --> 0:26:48.040 you know one should no one should be naive about 0:26:48.040 --> 0:26:50.680 how that market came to be. I mean, look, we 0:26:50.760 --> 0:26:56.000 got there's a multi billion dollar industry in this country 0:26:56.040 --> 0:26:58.600 that exists to piss people off and to turn them 0:26:58.640 --> 0:27:04.960 against each other. Ask to you about the impact on 0:27:05.320 --> 0:27:10.280 Bob Woodward's book, Jeffrey Goldberg's article in the Atlantic about 0:27:10.359 --> 0:27:14.399 calling people who served in the military suckers and losers, 0:27:15.000 --> 0:27:19.600 Michael Cohen's book, Mary Trump's book. There's a whole industry 0:27:19.680 --> 0:27:24.880 of people who are who are coming out and speaking 0:27:24.920 --> 0:27:29.200 out against President Trump. Will those things move the needle 0:27:29.280 --> 0:27:32.760 at all? Or will they make his supporters dig their 0:27:32.800 --> 0:27:40.160 heels in even more? There are small slices of undecided voters, 0:27:41.040 --> 0:27:48.840 and there are Republican voters who know how badly he's 0:27:48.880 --> 0:27:55.399 failed that that I have to make a decision to 0:27:55.560 --> 0:27:59.120 vote for Joe Biden. Right that they are, and we 0:27:59.119 --> 0:28:02.320 we know this on our targeting and our and our research. 0:28:02.400 --> 0:28:08.160 So when so, the military is the most respected institution 0:28:08.240 --> 0:28:11.400 in the country. Do I think that will hurt him. 0:28:11.440 --> 0:28:15.000 I think that that will hurt him. I think that 0:28:15.400 --> 0:28:19.080 people know. Number one, that he said it. It sounds 0:28:19.119 --> 0:28:22.520 like the type of thing Trump would say. He's basically 0:28:22.560 --> 0:28:26.800 said that type of stuff publicly before. It's a perfect 0:28:27.480 --> 0:28:32.280 annunciation of the Trumpian philosophy. So yeah, and I think 0:28:32.320 --> 0:28:35.560 it's a I think it's a disgrace, right, And I 0:28:35.920 --> 0:28:45.600 do think that hurts it, um the all of it. Right. 0:28:45.680 --> 0:28:50.600 There's been some criticism of of Bob Woodward about how 0:28:50.640 --> 0:28:53.960 could you have this and not let the country no. Look, 0:28:54.000 --> 0:28:59.080 I mean some journalists report on television, some right for magazines, 0:28:59.800 --> 0:29:02.719 so him, right for monthly magazines, and some right books. 0:29:03.400 --> 0:29:06.440 And and what's the argument, right that it wasn't obvious 0:29:06.440 --> 0:29:10.760 that Donald Trump was lying, that he was delusional, that 0:29:10.920 --> 0:29:14.320 in fact, the snake oil cures and the advice to 0:29:14.520 --> 0:29:19.200 Jack lysshol were probably not good ones. Right there, there's 0:29:19.280 --> 0:29:23.280 nothing that we didn't already know right that that Woodward 0:29:23.360 --> 0:29:28.480 has revealed. But four right, the the only open question 0:29:28.760 --> 0:29:32.920 was was it the case that Trump just wouldn't absorb 0:29:33.040 --> 0:29:38.960 information or was it, as we now know, he did 0:29:39.000 --> 0:29:45.360 absorb the information He knew. It's the it's the greatest misjudgment, malfeasance, 0:29:46.520 --> 0:29:48.840 literally in the history of the country. There's there's nothing, 0:29:49.680 --> 0:29:55.800 there's nothing even close. There's nothing even close. Stay tuned 0:29:55.840 --> 0:29:59.360 for more of my conversation with Lincoln Project co founder 0:29:59.600 --> 0:30:13.120 Steve Schmidt. Steve, much of this election will really depend 0:30:13.200 --> 0:30:17.440 on turnout. We saw the highest historic turnout levels for 0:30:17.520 --> 0:30:21.840 the two thousand eighteen mid terms. Are people sufficiently fired up, 0:30:21.880 --> 0:30:25.080 in your view, to actually go out and vote or 0:30:25.200 --> 0:30:29.720 send in their mail in ballots? Um? You look, I 0:30:30.040 --> 0:30:32.440 think all of the polling shows that there's a lot 0:30:32.520 --> 0:30:35.920 of intensity in the race on you know, on on 0:30:36.000 --> 0:30:40.440 both sides. I think that you know, Trump's barkcore supporters, 0:30:41.200 --> 0:30:44.920 UM will be excited to vote for him. And I 0:30:44.960 --> 0:30:54.240 think that there's incredible intensity around the attitude of people 0:30:54.280 --> 0:30:57.880 who want him out, who want to remove from power. UM. Now, 0:30:58.920 --> 0:31:01.280 I think that one thing that's that's just up in 0:31:01.280 --> 0:31:03.880 the air. You know, you look at some of the 0:31:03.880 --> 0:31:06.920 poll numbers and you look, you know, Republicans rely on 0:31:07.040 --> 0:31:16.680 mail and voting, right and Trump has turned off millions 0:31:16.720 --> 0:31:19.760 of people to mail in voting, while the parties are 0:31:19.800 --> 0:31:22.520 spending tens and tens and tens of millions of dollars. 0:31:22.520 --> 0:31:25.000