1 00:00:00,120 --> 00:00:04,560 Speaker 1: I'm Katie Curic, and welcome to Next Question. So I'm 2 00:00:04,600 --> 00:00:06,920 Speaker 1: back in the city for a few days and away 3 00:00:06,960 --> 00:00:10,920 Speaker 1: from my usual recording setups. So I apologize if I 4 00:00:11,039 --> 00:00:14,239 Speaker 1: sound a little bit like I'm underwater, but I just 5 00:00:14,440 --> 00:00:17,959 Speaker 1: had such a fascinating conversation with Steve Schmidt, and I 6 00:00:18,000 --> 00:00:20,480 Speaker 1: wanted to get this episode out into the world as 7 00:00:20,520 --> 00:00:24,439 Speaker 1: quickly as possible. You probably have heard of Steve before. 8 00:00:24,560 --> 00:00:28,200 Speaker 1: He's a longtime Republican strategist, and he was the campaign 9 00:00:28,280 --> 00:00:32,159 Speaker 1: manager for John McCain's two thousand eight presidential bid. In 10 00:00:32,200 --> 00:00:36,600 Speaker 1: other words, he's a real Republicans Republican, but two years 11 00:00:36,640 --> 00:00:40,280 Speaker 1: ago he quit the GOP and now, as co founder 12 00:00:40,320 --> 00:00:43,680 Speaker 1: of the Lincoln Project, he's channeled all of his energy 13 00:00:44,080 --> 00:00:48,199 Speaker 1: into defeating President Trump. We talked about what led him 14 00:00:48,240 --> 00:00:51,440 Speaker 1: to renounce the party he's been loyal to for thirty years, 15 00:00:51,840 --> 00:00:55,360 Speaker 1: what to expect during this final sprint to election day, 16 00:00:55,600 --> 00:00:58,600 Speaker 1: and how he thinks Trump is um will impact our 17 00:00:58,600 --> 00:01:04,920 Speaker 1: political system for many years to come. You renounced your 18 00:01:04,920 --> 00:01:08,679 Speaker 1: membership in the Republican Party in two thousand eighteen, and 19 00:01:08,760 --> 00:01:11,280 Speaker 1: you have said you are going to vote for Joe 20 00:01:11,319 --> 00:01:16,880 Speaker 1: Biden absolutely. What was it that made you say, I 21 00:01:16,880 --> 00:01:20,800 Speaker 1: don't want to be a Republican anymore. Well, the Republican 22 00:01:20,880 --> 00:01:23,800 Speaker 1: Party by two thousand eighteen, and my view had become 23 00:01:23,880 --> 00:01:27,600 Speaker 1: fully the party of Trump, and Trump is um and 24 00:01:27,720 --> 00:01:31,760 Speaker 1: I think that we know more today than we did 25 00:01:31,840 --> 00:01:34,080 Speaker 1: even in two thousand eighteen. The straw that broke the 26 00:01:34,160 --> 00:01:38,120 Speaker 1: commis back for me were the children's detention and family 27 00:01:38,160 --> 00:01:41,720 Speaker 1: breakup policies at the at the Southern border, and I 28 00:01:41,800 --> 00:01:46,759 Speaker 1: just think they were appalling. They were immoral policies. They 29 00:01:46,800 --> 00:01:51,280 Speaker 1: harkened back to the worst abuses in our country's history, 30 00:01:51,400 --> 00:01:55,600 Speaker 1: the separation of families at the slave auction blocks, separation 31 00:01:55,960 --> 00:01:59,920 Speaker 1: of Indian children from their families in the latter night 32 00:02:00,000 --> 00:02:03,920 Speaker 1: teenth century, and that did it for me. What we 33 00:02:04,000 --> 00:02:08,800 Speaker 1: see now, though, right is Trump is um fully formed, rooted. 34 00:02:09,280 --> 00:02:13,520 Speaker 1: It's an ideology, it has meaning, and the Republican Party's 35 00:02:13,600 --> 00:02:16,720 Speaker 1: platform and this is important because it's the third oldest 36 00:02:16,760 --> 00:02:21,400 Speaker 1: political party in the world. It formed in eighteen fifty four. 37 00:02:21,840 --> 00:02:28,000 Speaker 1: Republican Party of two thousand and twenty exists fully as 38 00:02:28,040 --> 00:02:32,240 Speaker 1: an instrument for Donald Trump. It's a cult of personality. 39 00:02:32,639 --> 00:02:36,360 Speaker 1: The evidence of that is the platform. With the platform 40 00:02:36,440 --> 00:02:41,720 Speaker 1: requires is obedience to Donald Trump and loyalty to Donald Trump. 41 00:02:42,240 --> 00:02:46,920 Speaker 1: That's the full meaning of Republicanism now, and that trump 42 00:02:47,040 --> 00:02:53,320 Speaker 1: is ideology is one that is illiberal, anti democratic, bad 43 00:02:53,440 --> 00:02:57,280 Speaker 1: for the country and the party that is the vessel 44 00:02:57,360 --> 00:03:02,000 Speaker 1: for it, that has been the handmaidens to the cantactrophy. 45 00:03:02,160 --> 00:03:05,840 Speaker 1: That's befall in this country. It's the Republican Party. You 46 00:03:05,960 --> 00:03:08,920 Speaker 1: started something called the Lincoln Project. What is the goal 47 00:03:08,960 --> 00:03:12,040 Speaker 1: of the Lincoln Project, Steve, It's to defeat Trump. And 48 00:03:12,040 --> 00:03:15,440 Speaker 1: Trump is um, plain and simple as that plain and 49 00:03:15,560 --> 00:03:18,680 Speaker 1: simple as that um. When when you look at the 50 00:03:18,720 --> 00:03:26,360 Speaker 1: Republican Convention, there were three features to it. There was 51 00:03:26,560 --> 00:03:32,000 Speaker 1: breath taking line of the type that you see in 52 00:03:32,120 --> 00:03:36,840 Speaker 1: no healthy democracy anywhere in the world. One but was 53 00:03:36,960 --> 00:03:40,360 Speaker 1: unprecedented in the political history of the country. From the 54 00:03:40,520 --> 00:03:45,480 Speaker 1: from the gavel coming down right to begin it to 55 00:03:45,600 --> 00:03:50,240 Speaker 1: the gavel coming down to end it, you saw utter lawlessness, 56 00:03:51,640 --> 00:03:56,240 Speaker 1: flat out breaking and violating of dozens of federal laws 57 00:03:56,280 --> 00:03:59,640 Speaker 1: that have to do with preventing the use of taxpayer 58 00:03:59,760 --> 00:04:05,400 Speaker 1: dialars for partisan causes, the use of federal property. And then, lastly, 59 00:04:05,480 --> 00:04:10,200 Speaker 1: and and really ominously, you saw the seizure of important 60 00:04:10,240 --> 00:04:14,240 Speaker 1: symbols of the American Republic, of the of the state. 61 00:04:15,160 --> 00:04:19,240 Speaker 1: You saw Trump take those symbols the White House for 62 00:04:19,320 --> 00:04:24,360 Speaker 1: instants turn it into a partisan totem and an expression 63 00:04:24,440 --> 00:04:28,160 Speaker 1: of his authority. So what does that all mean, Well, 64 00:04:28,160 --> 00:04:33,600 Speaker 1: it means in essence that he's saying, I am the truth, 65 00:04:34,480 --> 00:04:39,039 Speaker 1: I am the law, and I am the state. No 66 00:04:39,200 --> 00:04:46,880 Speaker 1: thank you, and that ideology. He knew how deadly this 67 00:04:47,080 --> 00:04:54,000 Speaker 1: virus was. He knew it. The Republican senators knew that. 68 00:04:54,120 --> 00:05:00,480 Speaker 1: He knew. He lied to the country hundreds of times 69 00:05:00,560 --> 00:05:06,760 Speaker 1: downplayed this. It's the biggest, greatest, deadliest lie in the 70 00:05:06,960 --> 00:05:11,919 Speaker 1: history of the United States. That's the moment we're in, 71 00:05:12,360 --> 00:05:16,760 Speaker 1: and it has decimated the economy, broken a million dreams, 72 00:05:17,080 --> 00:05:21,160 Speaker 1: and has fundamentally ended the American way of life. There 73 00:05:21,160 --> 00:05:24,120 Speaker 1: are many people who follow me on social media and 74 00:05:24,160 --> 00:05:28,400 Speaker 1: they will say Steve Schmidt is biased. They described the 75 00:05:28,560 --> 00:05:33,440 Speaker 1: media as communicating fake news. If that, in fact is 76 00:05:33,560 --> 00:05:38,000 Speaker 1: the case and true, why does President Trump enjoy so 77 00:05:38,160 --> 00:05:42,040 Speaker 1: much support Still? I think that there's two issues, and 78 00:05:42,080 --> 00:05:44,599 Speaker 1: I think people get confused on them. Right, there's a 79 00:05:44,760 --> 00:05:49,960 Speaker 1: there's a political question and there's a sociological question. And 80 00:05:50,000 --> 00:05:52,800 Speaker 1: so let's start with the political question. That The political 81 00:05:52,880 --> 00:05:55,120 Speaker 1: question is is that where you look right now in 82 00:05:55,240 --> 00:05:59,440 Speaker 1: this where this race is, Joe Biden has a bigger 83 00:05:59,560 --> 00:06:02,960 Speaker 1: lead Obama did, has a bigger lead that Bush did 84 00:06:03,080 --> 00:06:06,560 Speaker 1: had as a bigger lead than Bill Clinton did. Here 85 00:06:06,640 --> 00:06:12,920 Speaker 1: is a commanding lead. The majority of this country rejects Trump, 86 00:06:13,200 --> 00:06:17,680 Speaker 1: and Trump is um and wants him gone. You look 87 00:06:17,720 --> 00:06:20,640 Speaker 1: at the swing states right now, Biden is in a 88 00:06:20,680 --> 00:06:25,880 Speaker 1: strong position. Donald Trump is losing the race. The second 89 00:06:25,920 --> 00:06:31,359 Speaker 1: issue is a sociological question, And and at least a 90 00:06:31,520 --> 00:06:35,440 Speaker 1: third of the country is in thrall to a cult 91 00:06:35,480 --> 00:06:39,800 Speaker 1: of personality, and so for fort pent of the country, 92 00:06:40,120 --> 00:06:43,000 Speaker 1: the millions of people who ascribed to Q and on 93 00:06:43,839 --> 00:06:49,640 Speaker 1: who are poisoned by social media, by disinformation that's both 94 00:06:49,760 --> 00:06:55,160 Speaker 1: organic and state sponsored um by a president who's lied 95 00:06:55,240 --> 00:06:59,520 Speaker 1: twenty five thousand times and has let loose hundreds of 96 00:07:00,040 --> 00:07:06,040 Speaker 1: Brascy theories. You have a billion dollar anger industry through 97 00:07:06,120 --> 00:07:10,680 Speaker 1: extreme media in this country, and and all of it 98 00:07:10,720 --> 00:07:15,520 Speaker 1: accounts for a number that's way too big in a 99 00:07:15,600 --> 00:07:21,080 Speaker 1: healthy democracy that hasn't just surrendered their agency to a 100 00:07:21,120 --> 00:07:26,000 Speaker 1: political leader, but have opted out of reality in some 101 00:07:26,120 --> 00:07:30,280 Speaker 1: fundamental ways. And and the truth is, there is such 102 00:07:30,400 --> 00:07:35,080 Speaker 1: thing as objective truth and fact. Then the wholesale rejection 103 00:07:35,200 --> 00:07:42,320 Speaker 1: of it is authoritarian. You don't see that in democratic societies, 104 00:07:42,360 --> 00:07:46,080 Speaker 1: and it should make everybody understand the degree to which 105 00:07:46,160 --> 00:07:51,080 Speaker 1: the system is blinking yellow to red because of it. 106 00:07:52,720 --> 00:07:57,239 Speaker 1: Let's get a little more granular. Steve has shove Biden 107 00:07:57,360 --> 00:08:01,040 Speaker 1: up seven to eight points in national polls, also up 108 00:08:01,080 --> 00:08:06,600 Speaker 1: in Arizona, Pennsylvania, Wisconsin, Michigan, North Carolina. President Trump appears 109 00:08:06,640 --> 00:08:10,320 Speaker 1: to be closing the gap in Florida. So is it 110 00:08:10,480 --> 00:08:13,119 Speaker 1: all going to get down to? As our late friend 111 00:08:13,160 --> 00:08:17,880 Speaker 1: Tim Russert said in two thousand, Florida, Florida, Florida, I 112 00:08:17,920 --> 00:08:26,520 Speaker 1: think Florida is is incredibly important for a couple of reasons. Um. First, 113 00:08:27,440 --> 00:08:31,640 Speaker 1: Trump's made clear in a way that is completely alien 114 00:08:31,800 --> 00:08:36,160 Speaker 1: to every other president, right like democracy requires someone being 115 00:08:36,200 --> 00:08:41,600 Speaker 1: willing to lose, being willing to say we hear the 116 00:08:41,679 --> 00:08:46,600 Speaker 1: voters get you next time. Trump Trump has inferred time 117 00:08:46,640 --> 00:08:50,880 Speaker 1: and time again that unless he wins, the election is illegitimate. 118 00:08:52,040 --> 00:08:55,839 Speaker 1: And there are a thousand bad things that I can 119 00:08:55,880 --> 00:08:58,920 Speaker 1: think of off the top of my head, right that 120 00:08:59,080 --> 00:09:02,760 Speaker 1: that flowed from that from violence in the streets uh 121 00:09:02,840 --> 00:09:08,000 Speaker 1: to chaotic paralyzed government, a constitutional crisis. We should pay 122 00:09:08,000 --> 00:09:12,880 Speaker 1: attention on Roger Stone, clown and criminal though he may 123 00:09:12,920 --> 00:09:17,800 Speaker 1: be communicating to Donald Trump through the television, which is 124 00:09:17,840 --> 00:09:22,240 Speaker 1: how you communicate to Donald Trump about seizing absolute power 125 00:09:22,280 --> 00:09:26,480 Speaker 1: in the country. So Florida, right, Florida makes it very 126 00:09:26,600 --> 00:09:31,840 Speaker 1: hard if Biden wins decisively there for Trump to make 127 00:09:32,440 --> 00:09:36,520 Speaker 1: the legitimacy claim, because it means he's gonna lose big 128 00:09:36,559 --> 00:09:39,520 Speaker 1: all over the country and it could be an early night. 129 00:09:40,080 --> 00:09:43,640 Speaker 1: Nobody wants to see this election go on for weeks 130 00:09:43,679 --> 00:09:46,680 Speaker 1: and months. So when you look at Florida right now, 131 00:09:47,200 --> 00:09:53,840 Speaker 1: Trump is overperforming with Hispanic voters, and he is underperforming 132 00:09:53,880 --> 00:09:57,800 Speaker 1: at a historical level with senior voters. And so Mike 133 00:09:57,800 --> 00:10:01,240 Speaker 1: Bloomberg is gonna spend a hundred million dollar US in Florida. 134 00:10:01,400 --> 00:10:03,640 Speaker 1: I think Donald Trump's in a lot of trouble there. 135 00:10:04,520 --> 00:10:09,400 Speaker 1: If the election were tomorrow, he would lose. But Republican state, 136 00:10:10,120 --> 00:10:14,640 Speaker 1: Republican governor. The COVID crisis has been a disaster there. 137 00:10:15,320 --> 00:10:21,000 Speaker 1: The governor's a D S c has rival Trump's. But um, 138 00:10:21,080 --> 00:10:23,280 Speaker 1: it will it will be a it will be a 139 00:10:23,280 --> 00:10:26,920 Speaker 1: state that bears watching. Um And if Biden wins it. 140 00:10:26,920 --> 00:10:30,599 Speaker 1: It's all over early on election, right. Why are Hispanics 141 00:10:30,640 --> 00:10:34,760 Speaker 1: still trending towards Donald Trump? In Florida you have a 142 00:10:34,760 --> 00:10:41,719 Speaker 1: lot of um human population obviously, but also Venezuelan uh 143 00:10:41,840 --> 00:10:47,760 Speaker 1: South American that is triggered by the socialism message, which 144 00:10:47,800 --> 00:10:51,720 Speaker 1: hasn't been rebutted effectively by the Democrats of the Biden campaign, 145 00:10:52,559 --> 00:10:55,440 Speaker 1: you know, in the in the state now the way 146 00:10:55,480 --> 00:10:57,920 Speaker 1: to go after those voters. I think he's on a 147 00:10:57,960 --> 00:11:02,040 Speaker 1: corruption message, right. You know, they didn't necessarily leave their 148 00:11:02,120 --> 00:11:06,080 Speaker 1: countries to come to America because of the politics of 149 00:11:06,120 --> 00:11:10,280 Speaker 1: the government, whether it was you know, right of center Colombia, 150 00:11:10,720 --> 00:11:15,559 Speaker 1: UM socialist, Venezuela, communist Cuba. Why they left was because 151 00:11:15,600 --> 00:11:19,839 Speaker 1: of the corruption. It's just endemic to all of those systems. 152 00:11:20,040 --> 00:11:23,280 Speaker 1: And you know, the ability to focus on Trump's corruption 153 00:11:24,120 --> 00:11:27,840 Speaker 1: and you know that they see that quality coming to 154 00:11:27,880 --> 00:11:31,680 Speaker 1: American life, right, would would be an effective message there. 155 00:11:32,160 --> 00:11:36,440 Speaker 1: Who else is this socialism message resonating with that has 156 00:11:36,480 --> 00:11:41,679 Speaker 1: not been effectively rebutted by the Biden administration, that somehow 157 00:11:42,480 --> 00:11:47,640 Speaker 1: Biden presidency would be co opted by the extreme left. 158 00:11:48,400 --> 00:11:52,800 Speaker 1: I think that there's a a a broad, a deep 159 00:11:53,040 --> 00:12:01,840 Speaker 1: It extremely sophisticated multi layered propaganda UH network UM that 160 00:12:01,880 --> 00:12:08,440 Speaker 1: includes Fox News, includes talk radio, includes Facebook chat sites, 161 00:12:09,280 --> 00:12:14,959 Speaker 1: includes O. A. N and Alex Jones. And if you 162 00:12:15,120 --> 00:12:19,800 Speaker 1: if you listen to the to the accumulation of it all, UM, 163 00:12:19,920 --> 00:12:24,199 Speaker 1: you think America's cities or burning right now? That New 164 00:12:24,280 --> 00:12:29,720 Speaker 1: York City, UM looks like something from Escape from New York, 165 00:12:29,800 --> 00:12:33,520 Speaker 1: the movie in the late nine seventies. That that America's 166 00:12:33,520 --> 00:12:43,720 Speaker 1: cities are burning, that chaos is at hands, that UM, socialism, Antifa, 167 00:12:44,040 --> 00:12:48,400 Speaker 1: all of these things are about to descend upon America. 168 00:12:49,160 --> 00:12:53,040 Speaker 1: And and there is there is a far too large 169 00:12:53,160 --> 00:12:57,040 Speaker 1: number you know that that buys into it. I mean, look, 170 00:12:57,080 --> 00:13:00,480 Speaker 1: we're we're going to see our first members of Congress 171 00:13:00,600 --> 00:13:04,360 Speaker 1: who are a Cuban on conspiracy theorists, right, this is 172 00:13:04,400 --> 00:13:08,400 Speaker 1: this is a conspiracy theory built around the fact that 173 00:13:09,200 --> 00:13:13,319 Speaker 1: much of the governing class of the country or cannibalistic pedophiles, 174 00:13:14,000 --> 00:13:17,160 Speaker 1: and Donald Trump is working secretly with the military to 175 00:13:17,280 --> 00:13:23,319 Speaker 1: break up the ring and it's a global phenomenon. Is 176 00:13:23,360 --> 00:13:25,640 Speaker 1: the genie out of the bottle, Steve. When it comes 177 00:13:25,720 --> 00:13:31,320 Speaker 1: to that kind of false information getting perpetuated by all 178 00:13:31,400 --> 00:13:36,160 Speaker 1: these people that you cited, it might be. Look, you 179 00:13:36,280 --> 00:13:40,720 Speaker 1: have you have an Oregon you have reports of right 180 00:13:40,720 --> 00:13:45,840 Speaker 1: wing militia setting up roadside checkpoints and just had to 181 00:13:45,840 --> 00:13:52,000 Speaker 1: be rebuked by the sheriff's office. You see these cami, 182 00:13:52,360 --> 00:13:58,880 Speaker 1: these these Hawaiian shirt clad boogaloo boys right storming state capitals. 183 00:14:00,080 --> 00:14:07,120 Speaker 1: We ye. The reality is is that all of that 184 00:14:07,440 --> 00:14:10,880 Speaker 1: is a minority of the country. And I wish those 185 00:14:10,920 --> 00:14:14,760 Speaker 1: people well, I do. I wish them no harm. But 186 00:14:15,800 --> 00:14:19,520 Speaker 1: we can't be ruled over by them, is what the is. 187 00:14:19,520 --> 00:14:23,240 Speaker 1: What the point is is the the country has been 188 00:14:23,280 --> 00:14:30,320 Speaker 1: pitched into a unbelievably precipitous decline over a over a 189 00:14:30,360 --> 00:14:36,600 Speaker 1: short period of time, and it's being propelled by all 190 00:14:37,040 --> 00:14:44,720 Speaker 1: of the pathogens that I just described, the combination of unreasonableness, 191 00:14:45,760 --> 00:14:51,280 Speaker 1: outright insanity, opting out of out of reality, opting out 192 00:14:51,320 --> 00:14:57,520 Speaker 1: of opting out now, and it's it's it's bad. Let's 193 00:14:57,520 --> 00:15:02,600 Speaker 1: talk about another key demographic group that each candidate is 194 00:15:02,640 --> 00:15:06,240 Speaker 1: fighting for. We're talking about white suburban women. Now. Trump 195 00:15:06,280 --> 00:15:09,760 Speaker 1: won white women in two thousand and sixteen against Hillary 196 00:15:09,840 --> 00:15:15,120 Speaker 1: Clinton by nine I mean a lot of trouble now 197 00:15:15,520 --> 00:15:22,200 Speaker 1: with white women. Explain that, Well, what white suburban women 198 00:15:22,920 --> 00:15:27,400 Speaker 1: the the issue more than any other issue that that 199 00:15:27,480 --> 00:15:30,840 Speaker 1: has peeled them off of him is his embrace of 200 00:15:30,960 --> 00:15:36,200 Speaker 1: all of the racial animals and going back to George Floyd, 201 00:15:36,400 --> 00:15:42,359 Speaker 1: to the embrace of the Confederate flag, that that demographic 202 00:15:42,440 --> 00:15:45,520 Speaker 1: in his country is just repelled by it. And so 203 00:15:46,320 --> 00:15:48,560 Speaker 1: he is in a lot of trouble in the in 204 00:15:48,640 --> 00:15:55,120 Speaker 1: the suburbs, and everybody is affected by by COVID. You know, 205 00:15:55,200 --> 00:15:57,800 Speaker 1: I don't I don't say lightly that the American way 206 00:15:58,160 --> 00:16:01,200 Speaker 1: of life has ended, but it but it has right, 207 00:16:01,200 --> 00:16:04,480 Speaker 1: Like I mean, you can't go and be with a 208 00:16:04,600 --> 00:16:08,440 Speaker 1: parent and end of life decision. The grandparents can't go 209 00:16:08,520 --> 00:16:13,440 Speaker 1: to see the birth of their grandkids, weddings, birthdays or 210 00:16:13,560 --> 00:16:19,520 Speaker 1: mitzvah's communions, tailgates, football, and the list goes on all 211 00:16:20,120 --> 00:16:23,520 Speaker 1: over the and and none of it, none of it 212 00:16:23,600 --> 00:16:28,480 Speaker 1: had a big more with political strategists and Lincoln Project 213 00:16:28,520 --> 00:16:42,600 Speaker 1: co founder Steve Schmidt. Right after this, let's talk about 214 00:16:42,600 --> 00:16:45,880 Speaker 1: the law and order message. That is the old chestnut 215 00:16:45,960 --> 00:16:50,640 Speaker 1: that Republicans often return return to in campaigns. The Trump 216 00:16:50,640 --> 00:16:56,320 Speaker 1: administration is using it. It's not very effective, or is it. Well, 217 00:16:57,080 --> 00:17:01,480 Speaker 1: it's it has not been It has not been effective, 218 00:17:02,280 --> 00:17:07,080 Speaker 1: but it doesn't mean that it doesn't have the potential 219 00:17:07,200 --> 00:17:11,880 Speaker 1: to be in in certain places that that message is aimed, 220 00:17:12,520 --> 00:17:15,160 Speaker 1: if you want to break it down demographically at non 221 00:17:15,240 --> 00:17:19,840 Speaker 1: college educated white male voters, particularly in the rust Belt states. 222 00:17:20,920 --> 00:17:25,159 Speaker 1: But each time he delivers that message, he hurts himself 223 00:17:25,760 --> 00:17:31,119 Speaker 1: with college educated, suburban women voters, particularly in the in 224 00:17:31,119 --> 00:17:35,920 Speaker 1: in the sun Belt states, right in Florida, in Arizona. 225 00:17:36,200 --> 00:17:40,240 Speaker 1: So he's in a death spiral, so to speak, because 226 00:17:40,240 --> 00:17:44,600 Speaker 1: the message they've decided to communicate, the fear based message 227 00:17:45,080 --> 00:17:50,600 Speaker 1: on the crime, is pulling share from them with one demographic, 228 00:17:51,240 --> 00:17:54,360 Speaker 1: you know, with slight to marginal gains in a in another. 229 00:17:54,440 --> 00:18:00,199 Speaker 1: But you look, if it is, it is jarring to 230 00:18:00,359 --> 00:18:07,119 Speaker 1: watch some primetime Fox News right the depiction of what's 231 00:18:07,119 --> 00:18:11,320 Speaker 1: happening in the in the in the country is this 232 00:18:11,520 --> 00:18:21,080 Speaker 1: dystopian healthscape positioning Trump as the defender of Western civilization. Um, 233 00:18:21,119 --> 00:18:26,800 Speaker 1: it's remarkable. It doesn't appear to be persuading people. Um. 234 00:18:26,800 --> 00:18:30,800 Speaker 1: But you know for that for that Trump base, you know, 235 00:18:30,960 --> 00:18:36,199 Speaker 1: does it maintain their intensity? Sure it does? Um. You know, 236 00:18:36,320 --> 00:18:41,760 Speaker 1: has Trump effectively been able to use these issues to 237 00:18:42,080 --> 00:18:46,720 Speaker 1: distract from having to answer questions about COVID? He absolutely 238 00:18:46,720 --> 00:18:51,120 Speaker 1: has um. And but that's what it's about, right, It's 239 00:18:51,160 --> 00:18:56,320 Speaker 1: about It's about a failure. It's literally the greatest failure 240 00:18:56,320 --> 00:19:00,720 Speaker 1: in American history, COVID. And he wants to do anything 241 00:19:00,800 --> 00:19:05,359 Speaker 1: he can to try to make the race about something else. 242 00:19:05,400 --> 00:19:08,440 Speaker 1: And and here's the reality of the of the two 243 00:19:08,520 --> 00:19:15,040 Speaker 1: thousand and sixteen elections. The the person who was losing 244 00:19:15,040 --> 00:19:18,879 Speaker 1: that race was the person that the race was about. 245 00:19:19,800 --> 00:19:25,040 Speaker 1: And for of the race, Donald Trump was losing because 246 00:19:25,080 --> 00:19:28,320 Speaker 1: it was about him, and James Comey made it about 247 00:19:28,400 --> 00:19:31,680 Speaker 1: Hillary Clinton in the last week and Donald Trump won 248 00:19:31,760 --> 00:19:35,879 Speaker 1: by seventy eight thousand votes across three states. He's going 249 00:19:35,920 --> 00:19:39,879 Speaker 1: to try to do everything he can to make the 250 00:19:40,000 --> 00:19:45,439 Speaker 1: race about something other than what it is about. And 251 00:19:45,440 --> 00:19:49,840 Speaker 1: what it's about is the biggest failure in American history. 252 00:19:49,920 --> 00:19:53,800 Speaker 1: Sitting behind the Resolute desk, you believe the Democrats have 253 00:19:53,920 --> 00:19:58,080 Speaker 1: not been effective enough in refuting the socialism argument. What 254 00:19:58,200 --> 00:20:01,919 Speaker 1: about the law and order our commits, Steve Half, The 255 00:20:01,960 --> 00:20:05,080 Speaker 1: Democrats have been strong enough saying that most of the 256 00:20:05,119 --> 00:20:09,040 Speaker 1: protests have been peaceful, but they do not tolerate some 257 00:20:09,200 --> 00:20:16,480 Speaker 1: of the crime. I think the stakes are so enormously 258 00:20:16,560 --> 00:20:21,680 Speaker 1: high in the selection, so enormously high. Um, I think 259 00:20:21,720 --> 00:20:26,680 Speaker 1: the country is on the line, and so therefore anything 260 00:20:27,960 --> 00:20:36,679 Speaker 1: that bets Trump's campaign is a bad thing. And so 261 00:20:37,240 --> 00:20:39,399 Speaker 1: when you look at the civil rights leaders of the 262 00:20:39,520 --> 00:20:47,160 Speaker 1: nineteen sixties, John Lewis, Martin, Luther King, they were two things, 263 00:20:47,200 --> 00:20:49,560 Speaker 1: and we only remember the one or talk about the 264 00:20:49,600 --> 00:20:56,640 Speaker 1: one right. They were profoundly important moral figures. They imbued 265 00:20:56,640 --> 00:21:03,240 Speaker 1: this movement with justice and righteousness, and it was fueled 266 00:21:03,400 --> 00:21:08,439 Speaker 1: by the morality of non violence. And what what it 267 00:21:08,520 --> 00:21:13,840 Speaker 1: what had proved is the dignity of the movement and 268 00:21:13,880 --> 00:21:18,320 Speaker 1: the justice right that it was, that it was striving, 269 00:21:18,400 --> 00:21:20,399 Speaker 1: that it was striving to achieve. The second part is 270 00:21:20,440 --> 00:21:24,840 Speaker 1: they were really smart political strategists. They were really smart. 271 00:21:25,680 --> 00:21:30,000 Speaker 1: They moved public opinion to their side. So like, let's 272 00:21:30,040 --> 00:21:34,720 Speaker 1: look at Portland's right. Here's an idea, get away from 273 00:21:34,720 --> 00:21:44,560 Speaker 1: the federal courthouse. Deny oxygen to the federal stormtroopers, unbadged math, 274 00:21:45,520 --> 00:21:51,280 Speaker 1: no ideas, be smart in the tactics there. There there 275 00:21:51,280 --> 00:22:00,400 Speaker 1: should be no tolerance for looting, for disorder, for villions 276 00:22:00,480 --> 00:22:05,560 Speaker 1: in cities. And you see, the mayor of Portland's is 277 00:22:05,600 --> 00:22:09,360 Speaker 1: every bit the incompetent right that the mayor of New 278 00:22:09,440 --> 00:22:14,040 Speaker 1: York is that the governor of Florida is right. We've 279 00:22:14,040 --> 00:22:19,359 Speaker 1: seen some profoundly incompetent political leadership, most of it in 280 00:22:19,400 --> 00:22:23,879 Speaker 1: the Republican Party, but some of it in the Democratic Party. 281 00:22:24,320 --> 00:22:29,919 Speaker 1: And Democratic leaders should absolutely make clear right that the 282 00:22:29,960 --> 00:22:34,399 Speaker 1: burning and looting of a city for any is intolerable. Intolerable, 283 00:22:35,080 --> 00:22:40,080 Speaker 1: let's talk about blue colored voters. Listen to this quote 284 00:22:40,080 --> 00:22:43,639 Speaker 1: by a thirty year old electrician in Ohio from an 285 00:22:43,720 --> 00:22:47,399 Speaker 1: article on the Economists quote, He's done a great job. 286 00:22:47,680 --> 00:22:52,680 Speaker 1: He's got everyone back to work. I'm pretty much for him. 287 00:22:52,720 --> 00:22:56,280 Speaker 1: Another pipe fitter added, he shoots his mouth off, but 288 00:22:56,359 --> 00:23:00,200 Speaker 1: at least that shows he's honest. What's your reaction into 289 00:23:00,240 --> 00:23:05,840 Speaker 1: those statements? Um? I think the Democratic Party has a 290 00:23:06,160 --> 00:23:09,959 Speaker 1: has a cultural problem. I was asked at a dinner 291 00:23:10,200 --> 00:23:12,600 Speaker 1: with a lot of Democrats to what would what would 292 00:23:12,640 --> 00:23:17,120 Speaker 1: my advice be for this for this election, and that 293 00:23:17,320 --> 00:23:21,040 Speaker 1: I answered it like this. I said, imagine that there's 294 00:23:21,080 --> 00:23:23,880 Speaker 1: a building going up in New York City, though there's 295 00:23:23,880 --> 00:23:28,000 Speaker 1: a rural example for this also, and that building is 296 00:23:28,040 --> 00:23:31,440 Speaker 1: eighty stories high and there's hundreds of people working on it. 297 00:23:31,960 --> 00:23:35,280 Speaker 1: First Democratic candidate for president walks by the building and 298 00:23:35,320 --> 00:23:38,199 Speaker 1: they just don't notice anyone there, like the people that 299 00:23:38,240 --> 00:23:41,359 Speaker 1: are working on it are just invisible to them. Um, 300 00:23:41,400 --> 00:23:45,280 Speaker 1: they would fall into the category of what FDR talked 301 00:23:45,320 --> 00:23:49,080 Speaker 1: about is the invisible man, the forgotten man. The second 302 00:23:49,119 --> 00:23:53,560 Speaker 1: Democratic candidate walks by the site and sees the men 303 00:23:53,600 --> 00:23:57,080 Speaker 1: and women working on it, sees tattoos, see cigarette smoking, 304 00:23:57,119 --> 00:24:00,000 Speaker 1: and sees the ploricals it says, none of these people 305 00:24:00,000 --> 00:24:01,960 Speaker 1: will be out in East Hampton this summer, thank god. 306 00:24:02,880 --> 00:24:07,960 Speaker 1: UM just doesn't care for them. Third candidate walks by 307 00:24:07,960 --> 00:24:10,600 Speaker 1: that building site and what they see is the dignity 308 00:24:10,600 --> 00:24:15,760 Speaker 1: of labor. What they what they see are people doing 309 00:24:15,920 --> 00:24:21,440 Speaker 1: hard jobs, dangerous jobs, necessary jobs, doing things whether it's 310 00:24:21,480 --> 00:24:24,520 Speaker 1: wiring and welding eight d feet in the air, that 311 00:24:24,560 --> 00:24:27,480 Speaker 1: they couldn't do themselves in a million years. I mean, 312 00:24:27,520 --> 00:24:31,200 Speaker 1: that's the Democratic Party that Harry Truman and John Kennedy 313 00:24:31,200 --> 00:24:36,160 Speaker 1: and Bobby Kenny and Bill Clinton would have would have recognized, right. 314 00:24:36,280 --> 00:24:40,959 Speaker 1: And and there is a there is elitism right in condescension, 315 00:24:41,760 --> 00:24:45,680 Speaker 1: right that flows from the elites of this country towards 316 00:24:45,720 --> 00:24:48,320 Speaker 1: the working class people in this country. In the eyes 317 00:24:48,320 --> 00:24:50,919 Speaker 1: of a lot of working class people, and one of 318 00:24:50,960 --> 00:24:54,240 Speaker 1: the vessels one of the institutions, right that that does 319 00:24:54,280 --> 00:24:58,520 Speaker 1: that to them or the Democratic parties politicians, you know, 320 00:24:58,680 --> 00:25:06,359 Speaker 1: when people are laz about manufacturing jobs, all of these things. 321 00:25:06,960 --> 00:25:11,159 Speaker 1: You know, Trump speaks in a language um that resonates 322 00:25:11,200 --> 00:25:14,080 Speaker 1: with with some of them. During the campaign in two 323 00:25:14,160 --> 00:25:17,160 Speaker 1: thousand and sixteen, Donald Trumps that he could shoot someone 324 00:25:17,200 --> 00:25:23,880 Speaker 1: on Fifth Avenue and his supporters would still support him. 325 00:25:23,920 --> 00:25:27,600 Speaker 1: In many ways. That's a very few statement, isn't it. 326 00:25:27,640 --> 00:25:35,320 Speaker 1: Look thirty three thirty four of the country wherever, wherever 327 00:25:35,359 --> 00:25:38,880 Speaker 1: you want to peg the number, no problem, I mean, 328 00:25:40,200 --> 00:25:47,639 Speaker 1: you you have. I mean Trump's demagoguery is spectacular. But 329 00:25:47,760 --> 00:25:52,160 Speaker 1: the trend line existed before before Trump and in an 330 00:25:52,160 --> 00:25:57,280 Speaker 1: election has become a type of war, type of battle 331 00:25:57,359 --> 00:26:01,160 Speaker 1: where the vote right is is cast for a lot 332 00:26:01,160 --> 00:26:04,680 Speaker 1: of people in this country to inflict harm on their 333 00:26:04,720 --> 00:26:10,119 Speaker 1: other enemy tribes. And that's what it is now. You 334 00:26:10,200 --> 00:26:12,280 Speaker 1: look at some of the cultural stuff. I mean, look, 335 00:26:12,320 --> 00:26:14,639 Speaker 1: we know when Trump goes out and you know, says 336 00:26:14,720 --> 00:26:17,800 Speaker 1: stand up for the flag, you know, and embraces the 337 00:26:17,840 --> 00:26:21,280 Speaker 1: cops and the and the fireman in the way that 338 00:26:21,359 --> 00:26:26,760 Speaker 1: he does. Now, all of it is demagoguic. In the 339 00:26:26,880 --> 00:26:33,920 Speaker 1: extreme right because he is depicting this civil war literally 340 00:26:34,520 --> 00:26:37,160 Speaker 1: in the country where the cities are burning, where he's 341 00:26:37,320 --> 00:26:41,640 Speaker 1: shown such hostility to the democratic cities, the Democratic States, 342 00:26:43,000 --> 00:26:45,600 Speaker 1: And you know, there there's a market for it, and 343 00:26:46,119 --> 00:26:48,040 Speaker 1: you know one should no one should be naive about 344 00:26:48,040 --> 00:26:50,680 Speaker 1: how that market came to be. I mean, look, we 345 00:26:50,760 --> 00:26:56,000 Speaker 1: got there's a multi billion dollar industry in this country 346 00:26:56,040 --> 00:26:58,600 Speaker 1: that exists to piss people off and to turn them 347 00:26:58,640 --> 00:27:04,960 Speaker 1: against each other. Ask to you about the impact on 348 00:27:05,320 --> 00:27:10,280 Speaker 1: Bob Woodward's book, Jeffrey Goldberg's article in the Atlantic about 349 00:27:10,359 --> 00:27:14,399 Speaker 1: calling people who served in the military suckers and losers, 350 00:27:15,000 --> 00:27:19,600 Speaker 1: Michael Cohen's book, Mary Trump's book. There's a whole industry 351 00:27:19,680 --> 00:27:24,880 Speaker 1: of people who are who are coming out and speaking 352 00:27:24,920 --> 00:27:29,200 Speaker 1: out against President Trump. Will those things move the needle 353 00:27:29,280 --> 00:27:32,760 Speaker 1: at all? Or will they make his supporters dig their 354 00:27:32,800 --> 00:27:40,160 Speaker 1: heels in even more? There are small slices of undecided voters, 355 00:27:41,040 --> 00:27:48,840 Speaker 1: and there are Republican voters who know how badly he's 356 00:27:48,880 --> 00:27:55,399 Speaker 1: failed that that I have to make a decision to 357 00:27:55,560 --> 00:27:59,120 Speaker 1: vote for Joe Biden. Right that they are, and we 358 00:27:59,119 --> 00:28:02,320 Speaker 1: we know this on our targeting and our and our research. 359 00:28:02,400 --> 00:28:08,160 Speaker 1: So when so, the military is the most respected institution 360 00:28:08,240 --> 00:28:11,400 Speaker 1: in the country. Do I think that will hurt him. 361 00:28:11,440 --> 00:28:15,000 Speaker 1: I think that that will hurt him. I think that 362 00:28:15,400 --> 00:28:19,080 Speaker 1: people know. Number one, that he said it. It sounds 363 00:28:19,119 --> 00:28:22,520 Speaker 1: like the type of thing Trump would say. He's basically 364 00:28:22,560 --> 00:28:26,800 Speaker 1: said that type of stuff publicly before. It's a perfect 365 00:28:27,480 --> 00:28:32,280 Speaker 1: annunciation of the Trumpian philosophy. So yeah, and I think 366 00:28:32,320 --> 00:28:35,560 Speaker 1: it's a I think it's a disgrace, right, And I 367 00:28:35,920 --> 00:28:45,600 Speaker 1: do think that hurts it, um the all of it. Right. 368 00:28:45,680 --> 00:28:50,600 Speaker 1: There's been some criticism of of Bob Woodward about how 369 00:28:50,640 --> 00:28:53,960 Speaker 1: could you have this and not let the country no. Look, 370 00:28:54,000 --> 00:28:59,080 Speaker 1: I mean some journalists report on television, some right for magazines, 371 00:28:59,800 --> 00:29:02,719 Speaker 1: so him, right for monthly magazines, and some right books. 372 00:29:03,400 --> 00:29:06,440 Speaker 1: And and what's the argument, right that it wasn't obvious 373 00:29:06,440 --> 00:29:10,760 Speaker 1: that Donald Trump was lying, that he was delusional, that 374 00:29:10,920 --> 00:29:14,320 Speaker 1: in fact, the snake oil cures and the advice to 375 00:29:14,520 --> 00:29:19,200 Speaker 1: Jack lysshol were probably not good ones. Right there, there's 376 00:29:19,280 --> 00:29:23,280 Speaker 1: nothing that we didn't already know right that that Woodward 377 00:29:23,360 --> 00:29:28,480 Speaker 1: has revealed. But four right, the the only open question 378 00:29:28,760 --> 00:29:32,920 Speaker 1: was was it the case that Trump just wouldn't absorb 379 00:29:33,040 --> 00:29:38,960 Speaker 1: information or was it, as we now know, he did 380 00:29:39,000 --> 00:29:45,360 Speaker 1: absorb the information He knew. It's the it's the greatest misjudgment, malfeasance, 381 00:29:46,520 --> 00:29:48,840 Speaker 1: literally in the history of the country. There's there's nothing, 382 00:29:49,680 --> 00:29:55,800 Speaker 1: there's nothing even close. There's nothing even close. Stay tuned 383 00:29:55,840 --> 00:29:59,360 Speaker 1: for more of my conversation with Lincoln Project co founder 384 00:29:59,600 --> 00:30:13,120 Speaker 1: Steve Schmidt. Steve, much of this election will really depend 385 00:30:13,200 --> 00:30:17,440 Speaker 1: on turnout. We saw the highest historic turnout levels for 386 00:30:17,520 --> 00:30:21,840 Speaker 1: the two thousand eighteen mid terms. Are people sufficiently fired up, 387 00:30:21,880 --> 00:30:25,080 Speaker 1: in your view, to actually go out and vote or 388 00:30:25,200 --> 00:30:29,720 Speaker 1: send in their mail in ballots? Um? You look, I 389 00:30:30,040 --> 00:30:32,440 Speaker 1: think all of the polling shows that there's a lot 390 00:30:32,520 --> 00:30:35,920 Speaker 1: of intensity in the race on you know, on on 391 00:30:36,000 --> 00:30:40,440 Speaker 1: both sides. I think that you know, Trump's barkcore supporters, 392 00:30:41,200 --> 00:30:44,920 Speaker 1: UM will be excited to vote for him. And I 393 00:30:44,960 --> 00:30:54,240 Speaker 1: think that there's incredible intensity around the attitude of people 394 00:30:54,280 --> 00:30:57,880 Speaker 1: who want him out, who want to remove from power. UM. Now, 395 00:30:58,920 --> 00:31:01,280 Speaker 1: I think that one thing that's that's just up in 396 00:31:01,280 --> 00:31:03,880 Speaker 1: the air. You know, you look at some of the 397 00:31:03,880 --> 00:31:06,920 Speaker 1: poll numbers and you look, you know, Republicans rely on 398 00:31:07,040 --> 00:31:16,680 Speaker 1: mail and voting, right and Trump has turned off millions 399 00:31:16,720 --> 00:31:19,760 Speaker 1: of people to mail in voting, while the parties are 400 00:31:19,800 --> 00:31:22,520 Speaker 1: spending tens and tens and tens of millions of dollars. 401 00:31:22,520 --> 00:31:25,000 Speaker 1: The Republican Party included trying to get people to do 402 00:31:25,080 --> 00:31:28,080 Speaker 1: mail in voting. So I don't know what that looks like, 403 00:31:28,720 --> 00:31:30,920 Speaker 1: right I don't know what the impact that is when 404 00:31:30,920 --> 00:31:33,760 Speaker 1: you when you look at like states for like right now, 405 00:31:34,200 --> 00:31:38,760 Speaker 1: you see Democratic advantages on mail and bat mail in 406 00:31:38,840 --> 00:31:42,000 Speaker 1: balloting returns, absolute ballot requests that are just in the 407 00:31:42,120 --> 00:31:45,840 Speaker 1: numbers or staggered. So what does the COVID election look like? 408 00:31:45,960 --> 00:31:50,480 Speaker 1: I don't know. Um, you know, I I think that 409 00:31:50,720 --> 00:31:57,200 Speaker 1: um you know, I think everybody should take seriously, Um 410 00:31:57,200 --> 00:32:02,120 Speaker 1: you know, the ability of a pathetic Trump, governors, secretaries 411 00:32:02,160 --> 00:32:06,680 Speaker 1: of state, you know, in Trump's name, to interfere on 412 00:32:06,800 --> 00:32:09,880 Speaker 1: election day all over the country. I think this could 413 00:32:09,880 --> 00:32:14,760 Speaker 1: be a very chaotic election. Bred Sicario was saying the 414 00:32:14,800 --> 00:32:19,640 Speaker 1: other day that there's a real divide that exists between 415 00:32:20,040 --> 00:32:23,960 Speaker 1: Democrats and Republicans, that Republicans are going to go more 416 00:32:24,040 --> 00:32:29,000 Speaker 1: likely than not in person voting Democrats mail in ballots. 417 00:32:29,040 --> 00:32:32,240 Speaker 1: So on election night it could appear that Donald Trumps 418 00:32:32,320 --> 00:32:35,160 Speaker 1: won because the mail in ballots had yet have yet 419 00:32:35,240 --> 00:32:38,760 Speaker 1: to be counted. That is a scenario that could that 420 00:32:38,840 --> 00:32:43,240 Speaker 1: could happen and it's not a great scenario. Why well, 421 00:32:43,280 --> 00:32:49,560 Speaker 1: because Trump will claim has signaled that he'll claim that 422 00:32:49,560 --> 00:32:55,240 Speaker 1: that these mail in ballots are fraudulent, and that as 423 00:32:55,320 --> 00:33:02,080 Speaker 1: his lead evaporates, that result is thus illegitimate. And you, 424 00:33:03,440 --> 00:33:06,120 Speaker 1: if you really want to stay up at night quaking 425 00:33:06,200 --> 00:33:10,600 Speaker 1: and fear about American democracy, read up on how much 426 00:33:10,800 --> 00:33:19,360 Speaker 1: license electors have under the Constitution to do as they 427 00:33:19,400 --> 00:33:24,880 Speaker 1: will as as the Electoral College gets ready to meet. Um. 428 00:33:25,000 --> 00:33:29,800 Speaker 1: We we have we have had in this country peaceful 429 00:33:29,840 --> 00:33:38,520 Speaker 1: transition to power since it's never been in question, right, Um. 430 00:33:38,520 --> 00:33:44,880 Speaker 1: George the Third asked what Washington would do, and when 431 00:33:44,920 --> 00:33:48,120 Speaker 1: he was told that Washington intended to go home to 432 00:33:48,280 --> 00:33:52,719 Speaker 1: Virginia in retirement and to give up power, George the 433 00:33:52,720 --> 00:33:55,320 Speaker 1: Third said, and that will make him the greatest man 434 00:33:55,880 --> 00:34:03,480 Speaker 1: of this age. This is the most fundamentally American aspect 435 00:34:04,480 --> 00:34:11,440 Speaker 1: of our democracy is that no person is above the system. 436 00:34:11,480 --> 00:34:17,560 Speaker 1: And so you have for the first time someone who 437 00:34:17,760 --> 00:34:24,360 Speaker 1: is lighting a fire around the idea of the legitimacy 438 00:34:24,400 --> 00:34:29,880 Speaker 1: of an election for president of the United States in 439 00:34:29,960 --> 00:34:35,920 Speaker 1: the United States of America. It's astonishing. And and that 440 00:34:36,120 --> 00:34:38,600 Speaker 1: and that no one, that no one in the Republican 441 00:34:38,680 --> 00:34:42,440 Speaker 1: Party takes to the floor of the Senate and House 442 00:34:43,440 --> 00:34:47,680 Speaker 1: and condemned this. It's outrage. How does it look for 443 00:34:47,760 --> 00:34:54,319 Speaker 1: both Mitch McConnell and Lindsey Graham who have been stalwarts 444 00:34:54,440 --> 00:35:01,279 Speaker 1: supporters of the president, they're both up for reelection. Yeah, 445 00:35:01,360 --> 00:35:04,399 Speaker 1: I mean, look, you know, Mitch McConnell is likely to win. 446 00:35:05,200 --> 00:35:08,160 Speaker 1: You know, Amy McGrath is a is a good candidate 447 00:35:08,239 --> 00:35:11,000 Speaker 1: on paper, but just is not is not caught on 448 00:35:11,160 --> 00:35:16,440 Speaker 1: out there um against McConnell. Lizzy Grahamson is in trouble 449 00:35:16,440 --> 00:35:20,799 Speaker 1: in South Carolina. Um. You know, he is in a 450 00:35:21,120 --> 00:35:26,080 Speaker 1: two point race, but under under fifty Um, I think 451 00:35:26,080 --> 00:35:31,239 Speaker 1: that Jamie Harrison could beat Lindsey Graham. Um. You know, 452 00:35:31,360 --> 00:35:38,640 Speaker 1: I I think that Lindsay is so vulnerable on the 453 00:35:39,239 --> 00:35:44,759 Speaker 1: character questions, the just it's his conduct is disgraceful and 454 00:35:44,840 --> 00:35:48,799 Speaker 1: you know, and and egregiously so and like at a 455 00:35:48,800 --> 00:35:51,440 Speaker 1: at an Olympic gold medal level. And there's there's a 456 00:35:51,440 --> 00:35:55,480 Speaker 1: lot of competition, you know, in the disgrace Olympics, right, 457 00:35:55,560 --> 00:35:58,719 Speaker 1: that surrounds that surrounds the Donald Trump era. But I 458 00:35:58,760 --> 00:36:02,320 Speaker 1: think Republicans are on track to lose the majority um 459 00:36:02,360 --> 00:36:05,920 Speaker 1: in the Senate. And you'll see losses in the House races, 460 00:36:05,960 --> 00:36:08,960 Speaker 1: and the realities is the party from a total number 461 00:36:09,000 --> 00:36:13,360 Speaker 1: of seats state legislatures, everything else has been decimated in 462 00:36:13,360 --> 00:36:15,160 Speaker 1: the Trump erea. And it's important to remember this is 463 00:36:15,200 --> 00:36:18,520 Speaker 1: a redistricting year. So the Republican year is going to 464 00:36:18,640 --> 00:36:22,319 Speaker 1: have implications for Republicans for the next you know, for 465 00:36:22,360 --> 00:36:24,920 Speaker 1: the next ten years. But but I think like one 466 00:36:24,920 --> 00:36:27,759 Speaker 1: thing that people really don't understand so much is that 467 00:36:28,360 --> 00:36:31,040 Speaker 1: you know, what happens when Republicans lose, and they lose 468 00:36:31,320 --> 00:36:34,680 Speaker 1: and they lose power, right, and people say, well Trump 469 00:36:34,719 --> 00:36:38,640 Speaker 1: will be gone and right, things will start snap back 470 00:36:38,680 --> 00:36:44,320 Speaker 1: to normal. That's not what's gonna happen when when a 471 00:36:44,480 --> 00:36:47,000 Speaker 1: political party is not a consumer product. Right, It's not 472 00:36:47,040 --> 00:36:49,959 Speaker 1: like you have a new cola beverage and say, God, 473 00:36:50,000 --> 00:36:52,520 Speaker 1: that sucks, No one likes it, right, so we'll we'll 474 00:36:52,680 --> 00:36:55,560 Speaker 1: get rid of that, put a new one out. Political 475 00:36:55,640 --> 00:36:59,200 Speaker 1: parties are almost like astronomical objects, like a like a 476 00:36:59,239 --> 00:37:04,200 Speaker 1: star apsing. As the star collapses, it shrinks. As it shrinks, 477 00:37:04,200 --> 00:37:06,239 Speaker 1: it gets more dense. As it gets more dense, it 478 00:37:06,280 --> 00:37:10,640 Speaker 1: gets hotter. Right, So the Republican Party is shrinking, right 479 00:37:11,080 --> 00:37:14,680 Speaker 1: as it loses power and Trump isn't gonna go away. 480 00:37:15,200 --> 00:37:18,080 Speaker 1: Trump is Um will be here to stay. You'll have 481 00:37:18,280 --> 00:37:21,840 Speaker 1: a very early start to the next presidential campaign cycle 482 00:37:22,000 --> 00:37:26,719 Speaker 1: right away, right in, in in, and the party is 483 00:37:26,760 --> 00:37:30,640 Speaker 1: just gonna get crazier. It will get crazier, and and 484 00:37:30,719 --> 00:37:35,560 Speaker 1: it will be led by the presidential candidates and by 485 00:37:35,600 --> 00:37:40,760 Speaker 1: the media figures, right who will have the most power 486 00:37:41,840 --> 00:37:45,840 Speaker 1: because they'll be out of power in the government. And Um, 487 00:37:47,080 --> 00:37:50,480 Speaker 1: we're we're we're in for. We're in for years and 488 00:37:50,600 --> 00:37:55,680 Speaker 1: years and years of of an extremism in our in 489 00:37:55,719 --> 00:38:00,319 Speaker 1: our politics, fomented by what will be the rent mint 490 00:38:00,960 --> 00:38:04,160 Speaker 1: of of Trump's support basis as it as it becomes, 491 00:38:04,160 --> 00:38:08,400 Speaker 1: whatever it's going to become in these next years, you'd 492 00:38:08,440 --> 00:38:09,920 Speaker 1: be a little more sp I mean, you're kind of 493 00:38:09,960 --> 00:38:13,040 Speaker 1: talking theoretically. Can you kind of give me examples so 494 00:38:13,120 --> 00:38:17,400 Speaker 1: you're saying that Fox News Trump, I mean, give me, 495 00:38:17,520 --> 00:38:20,600 Speaker 1: give me examples so people can really understand what you're saying. 496 00:38:21,120 --> 00:38:24,120 Speaker 1: You know, the most important figure in the Republican Party, 497 00:38:24,200 --> 00:38:28,480 Speaker 1: right if the Senate loses its majority, Trump loses the 498 00:38:28,480 --> 00:38:32,839 Speaker 1: White House is gonna be Tucker Carlson, Right, it will 499 00:38:32,880 --> 00:38:36,200 Speaker 1: be It would be Tucker Carlston. It will be Laura Ingram, 500 00:38:36,239 --> 00:38:39,920 Speaker 1: it will be Mark Leven Right, they will be the leaders, 501 00:38:40,840 --> 00:38:45,760 Speaker 1: right because they have media platforms right of this noxious movement. 502 00:38:46,239 --> 00:38:52,279 Speaker 1: Tom Cotton, Nicky Haley, the governor of South Dakota will 503 00:38:52,320 --> 00:38:56,040 Speaker 1: all be will all be candidates. Mike Pence will will 504 00:38:56,160 --> 00:39:01,520 Speaker 1: be a candidate. Um and and the more kid, the 505 00:39:01,640 --> 00:39:06,160 Speaker 1: fight is gonna be over, right, who is the biggest 506 00:39:06,360 --> 00:39:09,880 Speaker 1: trump Ist in the in the race, who carries on 507 00:39:10,640 --> 00:39:15,040 Speaker 1: the legacy And and that legacy right will be built 508 00:39:15,040 --> 00:39:19,160 Speaker 1: on the illusion that the election was stored, right, so 509 00:39:19,200 --> 00:39:22,680 Speaker 1: that there will be a mythology right that exists around 510 00:39:22,680 --> 00:39:25,480 Speaker 1: the start of the next election about the stolen election, 511 00:39:25,600 --> 00:39:28,880 Speaker 1: that that Trump is the leader. I mean Trump. Trump's 512 00:39:28,880 --> 00:39:31,440 Speaker 1: not gonna do with George W. Bush and Barack Obama 513 00:39:31,520 --> 00:39:36,279 Speaker 1: did right, he will he will be ever present in 514 00:39:36,600 --> 00:39:40,040 Speaker 1: an American life. He's not. He's not going gently into 515 00:39:40,120 --> 00:39:43,920 Speaker 1: any any retirement. And so you know, all of this 516 00:39:44,040 --> 00:39:47,840 Speaker 1: stuff that that's out there now, right, that's been encouraged, 517 00:39:47,920 --> 00:39:52,560 Speaker 1: the all these white supremacist and white nationalist groups, all 518 00:39:52,600 --> 00:39:55,759 Speaker 1: of the racial animals, the demo, it's it's all stripped there. 519 00:39:56,560 --> 00:40:00,919 Speaker 1: He's just plainly evident to see that there's a there's 520 00:40:00,960 --> 00:40:04,320 Speaker 1: a movement in this there's a political party in this country. 521 00:40:05,600 --> 00:40:09,440 Speaker 1: One of them doesn't doesn't exist to make the union 522 00:40:09,480 --> 00:40:13,839 Speaker 1: more perfect anymore, doesn't exist to advance policies under an 523 00:40:13,840 --> 00:40:20,240 Speaker 1: intellectual framework. It exists to be obedient and loyal to Trump. 524 00:40:21,520 --> 00:40:24,440 Speaker 1: That's what the platform is and what will become of 525 00:40:24,520 --> 00:40:30,040 Speaker 1: Donald Trump himself if in fact he's defeated. I don't 526 00:40:30,560 --> 00:40:33,920 Speaker 1: I have I have no idea. You know, he may 527 00:40:33,960 --> 00:40:40,680 Speaker 1: be prosecuted, um in various jurisdictions. If you read accounts 528 00:40:40,840 --> 00:40:44,200 Speaker 1: of the investigations that are underway, from tax fraud to 529 00:40:44,480 --> 00:40:48,120 Speaker 1: charitable fraud, right to to what have you. But but 530 00:40:48,280 --> 00:40:53,520 Speaker 1: he will. He will be the leader of a faction 531 00:40:54,239 --> 00:40:59,160 Speaker 1: that's about thirty five percent of the of the country. 532 00:40:59,520 --> 00:41:03,280 Speaker 1: Um M. And he will. He will be a huge 533 00:41:03,400 --> 00:41:06,759 Speaker 1: figure in the in the politics and the life of 534 00:41:06,800 --> 00:41:11,600 Speaker 1: the nation. Will be a destabilizing, a date destabilizing force. 535 00:41:12,640 --> 00:41:15,400 Speaker 1: Um he may. He may well decide to set up 536 00:41:15,480 --> 00:41:20,360 Speaker 1: his own Trump media network. Who knows, um, But but 537 00:41:20,360 --> 00:41:26,040 Speaker 1: but he's not going anywhere, that's for sure. Is there 538 00:41:26,080 --> 00:41:31,239 Speaker 1: a chance that the Republican Party will reconstitute itself with 539 00:41:31,360 --> 00:41:35,760 Speaker 1: people whose ideology is more closely aligned with say yours 540 00:41:36,080 --> 00:41:40,840 Speaker 1: or yours was, You can't have a modern political party. 541 00:41:41,800 --> 00:41:46,279 Speaker 1: I don't believe any longer and accommodate within that coalition 542 00:41:47,440 --> 00:41:52,400 Speaker 1: people like me, with people like Mike Pence who believe 543 00:41:52,440 --> 00:41:54,839 Speaker 1: if you have a gay teenager, what you should do 544 00:41:55,040 --> 00:41:58,600 Speaker 1: is take them, torture them, and pray away the game. 545 00:41:59,800 --> 00:42:04,800 Speaker 1: I get some moral it's wrong on on issue after issue, 546 00:42:05,800 --> 00:42:10,560 Speaker 1: the racial animus that we've seen unleash. They can't. There's 547 00:42:10,600 --> 00:42:15,920 Speaker 1: no compromise. Those elements have to have to go, have 548 00:42:16,080 --> 00:42:19,799 Speaker 1: to be have to be defeated, have to be put 549 00:42:19,880 --> 00:42:26,719 Speaker 1: back underground. What it's a political party that's not committed 550 00:42:27,880 --> 00:42:35,920 Speaker 1: to American democracy? Sure, where is the outrage over with 551 00:42:36,040 --> 00:42:41,719 Speaker 1: Donald Trump, the commander in chief of the American military, 552 00:42:42,120 --> 00:42:47,960 Speaker 1: what he said about the men and women, some of 553 00:42:48,000 --> 00:42:51,040 Speaker 1: whom right now are in harm's way? Where is the 554 00:42:51,120 --> 00:42:56,680 Speaker 1: out or are people who died right absolutely like but 555 00:42:56,880 --> 00:43:03,799 Speaker 1: Susan Collins Corey guard there all these people, So let 556 00:43:03,800 --> 00:43:10,120 Speaker 1: me understand this. They they all knew how deadly COVID was, 557 00:43:11,719 --> 00:43:15,919 Speaker 1: and it's clear now they all knew that Trump knew 558 00:43:16,840 --> 00:43:22,640 Speaker 1: how deadly it was, and yet they watched him go 559 00:43:22,760 --> 00:43:26,520 Speaker 1: out day after day after day, lie to the American people, 560 00:43:27,760 --> 00:43:37,680 Speaker 1: politicized common sense preventative measures like mask wearing. They watched 561 00:43:37,680 --> 00:43:42,200 Speaker 1: this insanity play out for months, as the death toll 562 00:43:42,480 --> 00:43:46,720 Speaker 1: rose and rose and rose, and they did nothing nothing. 563 00:43:47,600 --> 00:43:50,360 Speaker 1: What Why didn't one of them march down to the 564 00:43:50,400 --> 00:43:57,920 Speaker 1: Oval office and say stop it? What are you doing? Well? 565 00:43:57,960 --> 00:44:01,120 Speaker 1: Why didn't one person on the White House f hundred 566 00:44:01,160 --> 00:44:08,680 Speaker 1: thousand people dying say what the fun is going on here? Why? Nobody? Nobody? 567 00:44:08,719 --> 00:44:12,719 Speaker 1: And then Susan Collins premise of a reelection bit is 568 00:44:12,760 --> 00:44:15,600 Speaker 1: give me six more years so I can watch your back. 569 00:44:16,640 --> 00:44:22,960 Speaker 1: I'll fight for you. Oh my god, I mean the 570 00:44:22,600 --> 00:44:33,040 Speaker 1: the collapse of this institution into a cesspool of just immorality, indecency, malice. 571 00:44:34,160 --> 00:44:39,840 Speaker 1: But but it's also fundamentally become undemocratic. Trump assault institutions, 572 00:44:39,920 --> 00:44:44,360 Speaker 1: the rule of law. It's a threat to American liberty 573 00:44:44,160 --> 00:44:47,480 Speaker 1: and everybody should wake up to that. You know, It's like, 574 00:44:47,520 --> 00:44:51,200 Speaker 1: what do you say to to a Trump supporter, you know, 575 00:44:51,480 --> 00:44:54,360 Speaker 1: in a in a somewhere in the in the country. 576 00:44:54,360 --> 00:44:58,560 Speaker 1: But I'll say is wake up, wake up? You think 577 00:44:58,560 --> 00:45:02,839 Speaker 1: this man cares about you, your family, about the country. 578 00:45:04,080 --> 00:45:08,560 Speaker 1: We listened to his words, look at his actions. He's 579 00:45:08,640 --> 00:45:11,840 Speaker 1: wrecked the country in four years. If I stood here 580 00:45:13,560 --> 00:45:15,640 Speaker 1: on the day that he was elected, and I was 581 00:45:15,680 --> 00:45:19,080 Speaker 1: pretty pessimistic, and I sat there and I told you 582 00:45:19,120 --> 00:45:21,640 Speaker 1: that as we were coming into about two months out 583 00:45:21,680 --> 00:45:26,040 Speaker 1: from the we'd have two hundred thousand dead people, shattered economy, 584 00:45:27,560 --> 00:45:33,440 Speaker 1: American way of life basically done. Americans can't leave the country. 585 00:45:35,360 --> 00:45:37,560 Speaker 1: Would you would you would have been You would have 586 00:45:37,600 --> 00:45:39,480 Speaker 1: looked at me and thought I should be locked up. 587 00:45:41,480 --> 00:45:46,279 Speaker 1: I mean, the the performance here is so far out 588 00:45:46,280 --> 00:45:50,120 Speaker 1: of bounds of anything that we've ever seen in the 589 00:45:50,480 --> 00:45:53,799 Speaker 1: entire scope of history of this country. It's never been 590 00:45:53,840 --> 00:45:57,640 Speaker 1: an act of incompetence that that's even a remotely close 591 00:45:58,320 --> 00:46:04,200 Speaker 1: to to what Donald Trump has done, not even remotely close. 592 00:46:05,080 --> 00:46:08,280 Speaker 1: Is there any scenario, Steve, where you could see Donald 593 00:46:08,320 --> 00:46:13,640 Speaker 1: Trump getting re elected? Sure, Look, we're living in the 594 00:46:13,680 --> 00:46:18,600 Speaker 1: middle of historic and momentous events, and some of those 595 00:46:18,640 --> 00:46:23,480 Speaker 1: events have not played out yet before the before the election. 596 00:46:23,600 --> 00:46:25,840 Speaker 1: Right now, it looks like Donald Trump is going to 597 00:46:25,880 --> 00:46:30,160 Speaker 1: be defeated. Um, that's the trajectory of the of the election. 598 00:46:31,080 --> 00:46:35,879 Speaker 1: But could that change? Um? It could? I think these 599 00:46:35,880 --> 00:46:40,480 Speaker 1: debates are going to be monumentally important, and you know, 600 00:46:40,600 --> 00:46:42,640 Speaker 1: Joe Biden's gonna have to make the case. He has 601 00:46:42,719 --> 00:46:47,480 Speaker 1: to take the presidency from Trump. He has to lead 602 00:46:48,280 --> 00:46:52,520 Speaker 1: a broad coalition of people in this country, and he 603 00:46:52,600 --> 00:46:56,480 Speaker 1: has to communicate that we can do better than this, 604 00:46:57,560 --> 00:47:01,759 Speaker 1: that this is, that this is an outrageous, an outlandish 605 00:47:02,719 --> 00:47:06,840 Speaker 1: situation that our country is in. Do you have faith 606 00:47:06,880 --> 00:47:11,400 Speaker 1: that Joe Biden is strong enough to do that. I do. 607 00:47:12,160 --> 00:47:15,680 Speaker 1: I've been really encouraged by his performance over the last 608 00:47:15,719 --> 00:47:19,279 Speaker 1: couple of weeks. I think I think he is genuinely 609 00:47:20,239 --> 00:47:26,880 Speaker 1: outraged and offended, first over Trump's desecrations of his duty 610 00:47:26,920 --> 00:47:32,880 Speaker 1: with regard to the military, but also with regard to 611 00:47:34,120 --> 00:47:36,760 Speaker 1: what we're going to hear on all of these Woodward 612 00:47:36,800 --> 00:47:40,239 Speaker 1: tapes as they're as they're released and we get to 613 00:47:40,280 --> 00:47:43,279 Speaker 1: all the revelations. And I think that when he and 614 00:47:43,320 --> 00:47:45,960 Speaker 1: I think that Joe Biden understands from his comments in 615 00:47:46,000 --> 00:47:50,920 Speaker 1: the last couple of weeks, that he has to confront 616 00:47:52,640 --> 00:48:00,400 Speaker 1: Trump's vile character and the lethality of his incompetence in 617 00:48:00,640 --> 00:48:07,759 Speaker 1: unsparing terms, in unsparing terms, and finally, what do you 618 00:48:07,800 --> 00:48:14,600 Speaker 1: see unfolding on November three? Um, just from a strategist 619 00:48:14,680 --> 00:48:19,520 Speaker 1: point of view, and from a turnout and votes being counted, etcetera. 620 00:48:20,239 --> 00:48:22,800 Speaker 1: You know, sometime in early October four years ago, I 621 00:48:22,840 --> 00:48:25,000 Speaker 1: said it looked like Hillary Clinton was on track to 622 00:48:25,040 --> 00:48:30,960 Speaker 1: get four electoral votes, and she was, Um. I think 623 00:48:31,640 --> 00:48:34,920 Speaker 1: if there was one scenario right now that you know, 624 00:48:35,000 --> 00:48:37,319 Speaker 1: I think is the most likely scenario, I think it's 625 00:48:37,360 --> 00:48:42,759 Speaker 1: that Joe Biden will have a decisive victory on election night, 626 00:48:43,600 --> 00:48:47,440 Speaker 1: and that a lot of the scenarios that are the 627 00:48:47,480 --> 00:48:51,000 Speaker 1: worst case scenarios are not going to play out, but 628 00:48:51,080 --> 00:48:55,880 Speaker 1: they have to be prepared for and we have to 629 00:48:55,920 --> 00:49:01,160 Speaker 1: consider the unthinkable when it comes to Donald Trump, right, 630 00:49:01,320 --> 00:49:08,560 Speaker 1: questions about the legitimacy of the election are profoundly important. 631 00:49:09,480 --> 00:49:16,319 Speaker 1: I mean, our our democratic our democratic history is not 632 00:49:16,440 --> 00:49:20,560 Speaker 1: an entitlement to a democratic future. It's not, it's not. 633 00:49:21,719 --> 00:49:23,360 Speaker 1: This is this goes to the heart of the idea 634 00:49:23,400 --> 00:49:26,920 Speaker 1: of the country. We picked the leaders. Government works for us. 635 00:49:28,120 --> 00:49:31,840 Speaker 1: We tell the government what to do. Government of the people, 636 00:49:31,920 --> 00:49:37,200 Speaker 1: by the people, for the people. Right to vote, which 637 00:49:37,239 --> 00:49:41,240 Speaker 1: has been expanded that franchise over the course of our history. 638 00:49:42,480 --> 00:49:48,200 Speaker 1: To everybody, this is this is, this is on the line. 639 00:49:48,880 --> 00:49:51,800 Speaker 1: And when when a president says the things that he says, 640 00:49:52,400 --> 00:49:54,919 Speaker 1: he should be taken at his word. You don't think 641 00:49:54,920 --> 00:49:59,120 Speaker 1: it's the possibility that he will claim victory on election 642 00:49:59,280 --> 00:50:03,040 Speaker 1: night because mail in ballots, the majority of which will 643 00:50:03,080 --> 00:50:08,960 Speaker 1: be then in Democratic voters, won't have been counted. I 644 00:50:09,600 --> 00:50:14,520 Speaker 1: know for sure that he will look out for himself 645 00:50:14,560 --> 00:50:18,400 Speaker 1: and not the country. I don't. I don't know. Is 646 00:50:18,440 --> 00:50:24,160 Speaker 1: it possible that Acting Deputy Secretary Chad Wolf, on a 647 00:50:24,280 --> 00:50:30,680 Speaker 1: report of voter fraud, deploys Homeland Security agents to seize 648 00:50:30,920 --> 00:50:38,240 Speaker 1: ballot boxes? I think that's possible. Do do I think 649 00:50:38,280 --> 00:50:46,280 Speaker 1: that there are a hundred thousand federal forces around polling 650 00:50:46,320 --> 00:50:54,200 Speaker 1: booths with long guns? I think that's possible. Uh? Do 651 00:50:54,239 --> 00:50:58,680 Speaker 1: I do? I think that Donald Trump would try to cheat? Absolutely? 652 00:50:59,320 --> 00:51:04,920 Speaker 1: Would he try to steal the election? Will Will he 653 00:51:05,040 --> 00:51:11,080 Speaker 1: do everything he can to cause as much chaos as 654 00:51:11,120 --> 00:51:15,919 Speaker 1: a hedge against the defeat. Will he acknowledge the will 655 00:51:15,960 --> 00:51:20,520 Speaker 1: of the voters? He will not. Will he do what 656 00:51:20,719 --> 00:51:24,640 Speaker 1: Richard Nixon did in nineteen sixty when he could have 657 00:51:24,760 --> 00:51:29,000 Speaker 1: challenged John Kennedy's victory? He will not. Will he do 658 00:51:29,080 --> 00:51:32,600 Speaker 1: what al Gore did when al Gore told his team 659 00:51:32,640 --> 00:51:39,759 Speaker 1: not to attack the Supreme Court, he will not. And 660 00:51:39,880 --> 00:51:47,480 Speaker 1: so this this election is between two very different men. 661 00:51:48,160 --> 00:51:55,480 Speaker 1: Only one of them believes in the democratic institutions and 662 00:51:55,800 --> 00:51:59,719 Speaker 1: history of the of the country. It's important to understand 663 00:52:07,120 --> 00:52:10,319 Speaker 1: that does it for my conversation with Steve Schmidt, who 664 00:52:10,400 --> 00:52:14,000 Speaker 1: is the co founder of the Lincoln Project, and one 665 00:52:14,040 --> 00:52:17,880 Speaker 1: thing is for sure, he is very passionate and is 666 00:52:18,080 --> 00:52:21,520 Speaker 1: very worried about the future of our country. I hope 667 00:52:21,560 --> 00:52:24,880 Speaker 1: you enjoyed this episode if you can enjoy an episode 668 00:52:24,960 --> 00:52:27,680 Speaker 1: like this of Next Question, and I look forward to 669 00:52:27,680 --> 00:52:32,759 Speaker 1: sharing our new podcast series beginning October one, called Turnout, 670 00:52:33,280 --> 00:52:37,640 Speaker 1: all about Voting in America. Thanks again for listening. Until 671 00:52:37,719 --> 00:52:49,640 Speaker 1: next time, I'm Katie Curic. Next Question with Katie Kuric 672 00:52:49,760 --> 00:52:52,400 Speaker 1: is a production of I Heart Radio and Katie Curic Media. 673 00:52:53,000 --> 00:52:56,480 Speaker 1: The executive producers are Katie Kurk, Courtney Litz, and Tyler Klang. 674 00:52:56,760 --> 00:53:00,560 Speaker 1: The supervising producer is Lauren Hansen. Our show producer is 675 00:53:00,600 --> 00:53:05,600 Speaker 1: Bethan Macaluso. The associate producers are Emily Pinto and Derek Clements. 676 00:53:06,280 --> 00:53:10,880 Speaker 1: Editing by Derrek Clements, Dylan Fagin, and Lowell Berlante, Mixing 677 00:53:10,960 --> 00:53:15,600 Speaker 1: by Dylan Fagan. Our researcher is Gabriel Loser. For more 678 00:53:15,600 --> 00:53:18,719 Speaker 1: information on today's episode, go to Katie Couric dot com 679 00:53:18,880 --> 00:53:21,800 Speaker 1: and follow us on Twitter and Instagram at Katie Currik. 680 00:53:25,560 --> 00:53:27,880 Speaker 1: For more podcasts for my heart Radio, visit the I 681 00:53:27,960 --> 00:53:31,040 Speaker 1: Heart Radio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you listen to 682 00:53:31,080 --> 00:53:31,920 Speaker 1: your favorite shows.