Speaker 1: Staying in the NBA but moving off the court. Michael
Speaker 1: Jordan's longtime agent, extraordinary mister David Falk, weighed in on
Speaker 1: the goat debate this week. Not surprisingly, Falk back to
Speaker 1: his former client, but he took it a step further.
Speaker 1: Speaking with The Sports Business Journal, Falk had this to say, quote,
Speaker 1: I really really like Lebron, but I think if Jordan
Speaker 1: had cherry picked what teams he wanted to be on
Speaker 1: and two other superstars, he would have won fifteen championships.
Speaker 1: End quote. This prompted a response from none other than
Speaker 1: Lebron James agent himself, mister Rich Paul, take a listen.
Speaker 2: We can't have revisionist history and we all want to
Speaker 2: just determine who's the gold and who's the best, and
Speaker 2: so on and so forth. But I just thought that
Speaker 2: was a little beneath David to say that Michael never
Speaker 2: had to leave they you know, Michael's never been the
Speaker 2: underdog in any finals, not one time. Michael never had
Speaker 2: a twenty four hour three sixty five news cycle, He
Speaker 2: never had shows built strictly to criticize him. People made
Speaker 2: millions of dollars criticizing Lebron James that was their entire job.
Speaker 2: Michael played for Dean Smith, Michael played for Phil Jackson,
Speaker 2: and Michael had Jerry Krause. I'm the biggest Michael Jordan
Speaker 2: fan ever, love Michael Jordan, and I don't think Michael
Speaker 2: Jordan would have used the term cherry picks, So I'm
Speaker 2: not up here to just credit Michael Jordan. I think
Speaker 2: Michael Jordan transcended our game to a level that we
Speaker 2: all benefited from.
Speaker 1: What the hell do you mean, Rich Paul, when you
Speaker 1: say Michael never had a twenty four hour, three hundred
Speaker 1: and sixty five news cycle, He never had shows built
Speaker 1: strictly to criticize them. What shows are built strictly to
Speaker 1: criticize Lebron James? See? This is the BS. This, this
Speaker 1: is the BS Recover the Sport. It's a twenty four
Speaker 1: hours news cycle. There are plenty of positive things that
Speaker 1: are said about Lebron James on every show, every show.
Speaker 1: This is where the wanting and moaning accusations come from
Speaker 1: from him and his camp. What twenty four hour, three
Speaker 1: hundred and sixty five news cycle has shows built strictly
Speaker 1: to criticize them? So, in other words, the shows that
Speaker 1: criticize them never ever ever give him credit. Huh Ever, Look, man,
Speaker 1: I ain't got time. I'm not gonna even waste my
Speaker 1: time with this. I'm gonna get to my next guest.
Speaker 1: I'm gonna get to my next guest right now. I'd
Speaker 1: like to welcome to the show none other than mister
Speaker 1: David Falk himself. Longtime buddy. How you doing, David?
Speaker 3: How's everything you delighted to be with the student?
Speaker 1: You said what you said? You've had an opportunity to
Speaker 1: reflect on what you had to say about Lebron James
Speaker 1: in comparison to Michael Jordan. The floor is yours. What
Speaker 1: would you like to say now?
Speaker 3: I'm saying I thennounced that clearly Lebron James is a
Speaker 3: great player in any era. You'd be foolish to suggest
Speaker 3: on the laws, his longevity is, his stistics are amazing.
Speaker 3: I think what makes Michael to go goes way beyond
Speaker 3: the court. I think on the court, Michael obviated the
Speaker 3: center posision. Prior to Jordan, we needed the Elijah Watson Ewings,
Speaker 3: the Koreem's, the Bobonaiers, and the way Michael played he
Speaker 3: made it unnecessary to have a great center. Look when
Speaker 3: won the champions for Bill Weddington, Dicky Simpkins, Bill cart Right,
Speaker 3: and I think that had a huge impact on the game. Secondly,
Speaker 3: perhaps even more importantly, I think Michael individually broke down
Speaker 3: every barrier that existed for professional basketball players, and in
Speaker 3: particular African American professional basketball players, to become national mark
Speaker 3: getting brand ambassadors. So the whole generation of Rob's and
Speaker 3: Kobe's and Steph Curry's having the run shoes and being
Speaker 3: in commercials did not exist before Michael came in the game.
Speaker 3: Magic didn't have it, Bird didn't have it, Doctor Jaye
Speaker 3: didn't have it, Kareem didn't have it, And I think
Speaker 3: that's a preponderant impact. I think third, I believe he's
Speaker 3: the first NBA player to become a billionaire. I believe
Speaker 3: he's the first NBA player to become a majority owner
Speaker 3: of an NBA team. And finally, he had tremendous hit
Speaker 3: back on fashion. He changed the look of the way
Speaker 3: the players play with the long shorts. He made bald
Speaker 3: and beautiful. And so I think beyond comparing statistics, who
Speaker 3: had more points, who averaged more, even who had more championships,
Speaker 3: I think Michael's impact is extremely broad and deep in
Speaker 3: what he did to change the game. I don't think
Speaker 3: any other player in history will kind of impact.
Speaker 1: What do you make of people who would look and
Speaker 1: I'm gonna I want to get far beyond those two
Speaker 1: individuals that we're talking about for the moment, But I
Speaker 1: got this one question to ask you, what do you
Speaker 1: make of folks and their assertions that the times that
Speaker 1: we're living in now, the advent of social media, did
Speaker 1: the digital stratus fere uh the microscope that is on
Speaker 1: players in today's game like never before. The impression is
Speaker 1: given that even the great Michael Jordan, with his and
Speaker 1: you know, unparalleled popularity, I compare him to know one,
Speaker 1: the only person I've ever compared him to was Michael
Speaker 1: Jackson for crying out loud. That's how popular Michael Jordan was.
Speaker 1: When you listen to people talk today, they talk about
Speaker 1: the climate, the environment, uh, the society that we're living
Speaker 1: in today, and they say it's far more invasive than
Speaker 1: it has ever been, which makes the road tougher for
Speaker 1: a guy like Lebron James compared to what Jordan had
Speaker 1: to endure during his complain his playing career. You've been
Speaker 1: around a long time, you know this business like the
Speaker 1: back of your hand. What do you make of that?
Speaker 3: Of those assertions, clearly social media has brought the fans
Speaker 3: closer to the players. Everyone can express their opinion. You
Speaker 3: don't have to work for a newspaper or a television
Speaker 3: station to have an opinion. But I think that's the
Speaker 3: natural tendency when you're the best at anything, there's a
Speaker 3: human tendency to try to tear people down, and certainly
Speaker 3: Michael have that because of his immense popularity. You know,
Speaker 3: people criticize them, for example, for not being political enough,
Speaker 3: not expressing his desire for certain candidates, and so sure,
Speaker 3: I think that the social media has changed the game.
Speaker 3: I also think if you want to be objective, the
Speaker 3: game has changed itself. I had this discussion about a
Speaker 3: month ago with Ron Thorne, who's a very dear friend
Speaker 3: of mine who drafted Michael Jordan, and he said to me,
Speaker 3: which I didn't know, He said, do you realize today
Speaker 3: that the average NBA team takes one thver more shots
Speaker 3: than they did in Jordan zero? So when Jordan averaged
Speaker 3: thirty eight points a game, if you if you increase
Speaker 3: that by a third, that means he would average fifty two. Now,
Speaker 3: I think Michael could have averaged and Michael took one
Speaker 3: point seven threes per game, that's all they tell. I
Speaker 3: think he could have averaged almost anything he wanted if
Speaker 3: if that was what was required to win. That's all
Speaker 3: he cared about was winning, And I think his record
Speaker 3: of six out of six is the greatest. Master of
Speaker 3: the NBA never lost the.
Speaker 1: Championship well, don't forget. He also never allowed a championship
Speaker 1: series to get to a seventh game. He took you
Speaker 1: out in six or less every single time. That's the
Speaker 1: Michael Jordan that we're talking about here, David, expanding beyond
Speaker 1: Michael Jordan and Lebron James when we think about the
Speaker 1: age that we're living in. One of the discussions your
Speaker 1: comments prompted was player empowerment and the kind of things
Speaker 1: that have taken place in today's and in today's sports world.
Speaker 1: As as an agent, looking at the state of affairs
Speaker 1: that exist not just in the NBA but professional sports
Speaker 1: as it pertains the sovereignty involving players, player empowerment, et cetera,
Speaker 1: et cetera. What are the kind of thoughts that come
Speaker 1: to your mind as to what we're witnessing today, and
Speaker 1: whether or not it's good or it's bad for the
Speaker 1: world of sports in this day and age.
Speaker 3: Great question. So Number one, I believe that players great
Speaker 3: players have only their in power. I think the biggest
Speaker 3: difference between today's generation of players and if you will,
Speaker 3: Jordan's generation, the Magic's generation, is how the players exercise
Speaker 3: the power. Now, if you understand that in nineteen eighty two,
Speaker 3: that's a long time ago, the NBA ushered in a
Speaker 3: solid cap and for the last forty three years, the
Speaker 3: players have essentially owned fifty revenues, so their fifty to
Speaker 3: fifty partners with the league. The only way players can
Speaker 3: make more money is to grow the business of the NBA. Now,
Speaker 3: I believe that when players exercise their power poorly and
Speaker 3: they make statements that detigrate the game, I think that
Speaker 3: they're impeding the ability of themselves to make more money,
Speaker 3: which is foolished. So I'll give you a couple of
Speaker 3: examples you want to talk about player empowerment. In nineteen
Speaker 3: eighty four, in nineteen eighty five, there were two players
Speaker 3: in the history of the game that opted out of
Speaker 3: the group licensing program. What was named Michael Jordan what
Speaker 3: was named Patrick Ewing. They did not allow the league
Speaker 3: to use them in group licensing, and I opted about
Speaker 3: of both of them. Are you not allowed to do
Speaker 3: that today? In nineteen eighty five, Patrick Cownie became the
Speaker 3: first player in history to have an early termination option
Speaker 3: in his contract. He signed a ten year deal three
Speaker 3: times more money than Magic made the year before as
Speaker 3: a veteran, and he had the option to opt out
Speaker 3: after six years if market conditions change. That is empowerment.
Speaker 3: Michael Jordan was the first player to have the love
Speaker 3: of the Game clause that did not require him to
Speaker 3: that allowed him to practice at North Carolina in the summer,
Speaker 3: which came to Bekna's know as the love of the
Speaker 3: Game clause. Darnell Valentine in nineteen eighty became the first
Speaker 3: player to challenge the league's ability under paragraph thirteen B
Speaker 3: to prevent players from doing endorsements or interviews without permission
Speaker 3: of the team. That's in every contract now Valentine versus
Speaker 3: the Portland Trail players. So I can give you one
Speaker 3: hundred examples of player empowerment. Patrick Ewing became the first
Speaker 3: rookie in history to be the highest paid player in
Speaker 3: the league. He made fifty five percent more money than Koreem,
Speaker 3: who was the highest paid veteran of all time. I
Speaker 3: believe that that's empower them. Andy Ferry did the same
Speaker 3: thing in nineteen ninety and he clearly was not one
Speaker 3: of the great players in the history league. So I
Speaker 3: believe that players in every sport have always had tremendous power.
Speaker 3: But I think that today I don't think they use
Speaker 3: it as judiciously as they should. If the goal is
Speaker 3: to make more money and grow the business.
Speaker 1: Well, let me ask you this, David, give me an
Speaker 1: example if you can. If it's compromising, please don't bother.
Speaker 1: But if you can, give me an example of players
Speaker 1: that have exercised influence and exercised power, but you don't
Speaker 1: believe it's necessarily for their good or for the good
Speaker 1: of the game. Could you highlight an example that would
Speaker 1: it be good to illustrate your point?
Speaker 3: Well's of a seference to what I would say is
Speaker 3: is traders? Okay? Now, I personally personally probably made ten
Speaker 3: or fifteen major trades. I made the Patrick Ewing trade
Speaker 3: to see how I didn't want to make it. I
Speaker 3: didn't believe it, but he and the next agreed to
Speaker 3: will be best to have a change of scenery. It
Speaker 3: was a thirteen player trade. I traded stuff on Marlbury,
Speaker 3: New Jersey and the thirteen player trade with Sam Cassell.
Speaker 3: I did that behind the scenes. The minute you announced
Speaker 3: publicly as a player that you're not going to play
Speaker 3: anymore hard as an example, you know, it makes it
Speaker 3: so much harder to make the trade for the exact
Speaker 3: reason that Rich Paul indicated. It's hard for Lebron because
Speaker 3: you're shining the spotlight on the player, and the other
Speaker 3: teams around the league know that the player is demanded
Speaker 3: a trade, he doesn't want to be there. It's going
Speaker 3: to be a problem, and so they're not going to
Speaker 3: offer fair value and so the very goal the player
Speaker 3: has of moving he frustrated. It makes more difficult by,
Speaker 3: you know, by publicly announcing it. Now. The opposite of that,
Speaker 3: interestingly to me, and I'm a big Nico Harrison fan,
Speaker 3: is the fact that Dallas only talked to one team
Speaker 3: to trade Luca. You know, Lucas were on the top
Speaker 3: five players in the league and it wasn't competitive bidding.
Speaker 3: I know they had their reasons for it. I don't
Speaker 3: understand all the dynamics, so I'm not here to criticize it,
Speaker 3: but it surprised me that if you if you're going
Speaker 3: to sell one of the most valuable assets in the league,
Speaker 3: that you wouldn't want to have the highest level of
Speaker 3: competitive bidding. But the trade is the easiest example I
Speaker 3: could give you, Steven, Well, now I'll give you an
Speaker 3: example on the agent side. Okay. I believe that every
Speaker 3: time an agent comes out publicly and says any of
Speaker 3: the following, my player's not getting enough playing time, it's
Speaker 3: not getting enough shots, not making enough money, the team
Speaker 3: is taking advantage of them. They are advertising that they've
Speaker 3: done a really lousy job of being an agent, because
Speaker 3: if they were doing a good job, none of those
Speaker 3: things would be happening. And if they were happening, then
Speaker 3: the answer is to sit down with the owner or
Speaker 3: the general manager behind the seeds and try to figure
Speaker 3: that a way to prove I'm gonna tell you a
Speaker 3: funny story, Okay. In two thousand, I saw my only
Speaker 3: high school player in my fifty year career, a guy
Speaker 3: named Darius Miles. He was the third pick in the draft,
Speaker 3: and yes, I went to a game one night in
Speaker 3: LA to see Elton Brand. Our company at that time
Speaker 3: represented eight of the players on the Clippers eight. I
Speaker 3: didn't represent the ball myself. I only had Elton. I
Speaker 3: walk into the locker room to see Elton and he
Speaker 3: motions beat it talk to Darius. Apparently on the way
Speaker 3: from the locker room from the court into the locker room,
Speaker 3: Darius hadn't played a minute. He cursed out the coach,
Speaker 3: Alvit Gentry, who I've known since he was the assistant
Speaker 3: coach of Very Brown and Kids, squeak guy. So I
Speaker 3: go over to Alvit. I say, Alan, what's the problem.
Speaker 3: He said, David, I love it. I love Darius, but
Speaker 3: he's not working hard enough. Okay. So I told Darius
Speaker 3: to come to my hotel them the next day and
Speaker 3: I said to him, son, if you want to play,
Speaker 3: or do you want to sit on the bench. They said,
Speaker 3: of course I want to mister Faulk, That's why I'm unhappy.
Speaker 3: I said, well, I don't think you want to play,
Speaker 3: and he said, why would you say that? I said,
Speaker 3: because if you want to play, you have to show
Speaker 3: the coach that you want to play, and the way
Speaker 3: you show him is by working harder. He doesn't feel
Speaker 3: your work hard, and I promise you that if you
Speaker 3: want Carter, he will play more. That was on a Thursday.
Speaker 3: The next night they played the Houston Rockets. Darius played
Speaker 3: thirty minutes. I had twenty one or nine. I went
Speaker 3: to congratulate him after the game. Couldn't find him. Where
Speaker 3: do you think he was? He was in the weight room.
Speaker 1: Probably after the games in the weight room.
Speaker 3: Now, I went up to coach Gentry, who I really like,
Speaker 3: and said, album is this complicated? You want him to play?
Speaker 3: You want him to work and he wants to play. Now,
Speaker 3: most coaches in the NBA today are reluctant to tell
Speaker 3: the players that I working hard enough. Now. I'm not
Speaker 3: talking about the Papovitches or the pat Rileys. I'm talking
Speaker 3: about the younger coats because they're afraid they're going to
Speaker 3: lose the relationship with the players. The players are so
Speaker 3: much of them, they don't want to tell the coach
Speaker 3: that is bothering them that they're not playing. They don't
Speaker 3: think that's cool. And I think you need to communicate.
Speaker 3: So my job is to talk to a guy like
Speaker 3: Alvin and tell them that. And it solved the problem.
Speaker 3: And so I think that I think on both sides,
Speaker 3: this is a thing that should be done behind the scenes.
Speaker 3: Pride with my mom, who's a very highly educated woman,
Speaker 3: my life mentor. She taught me when I was very
Speaker 3: never hang your derby logging out publicly. And so I
Speaker 3: think demanding trades, complaining about how much you're making, those
Speaker 3: things are not productive to achieving the results that you
Speaker 3: want to achieve. And on top of it, I think
Speaker 3: it demeans the game. And I think one of the
Speaker 3: great differences between Jordan's era and today is I think
Speaker 3: the players had a much greater as a whole, not
Speaker 3: saying every single player had a much greater respect for
Speaker 3: the game as a as a whole. I'm going to
Speaker 3: tell you a great story, and you've never heard when
Speaker 3: Michael Jordan, please was recruited by Ted Leonsis, the current
Speaker 3: owner of the Washington Wizards, to come to Washington being
Speaker 3: the president. The day he was going to get file
Speaker 3: approval from a Poland West Uncelton's the GM of the
Speaker 3: team and the face of the franchise for many years
Speaker 3: from nineteen sixty seven. This is nineteen ninety nine, he
Speaker 3: called me up and asked me the set up a
Speaker 3: meeting for him with Michael. I didn't attend the meeting,
Speaker 3: but apparently at the meeting, West told Michael who's been
Speaker 3: leading with Michael King, and Michael told him if you
Speaker 3: leave all of dot Com, I respect you. You paid
Speaker 3: the path that young players of the sell. What's the
Speaker 3: problem And Wes said, have nothing to do with you.
Speaker 3: Ab Poland runned around telling everyone else that he's like
Speaker 3: my father and I'm the lowest paid general manager in
Speaker 3: the entire NBA. He's he's disrespecting me, and I'm quitting
Speaker 3: and Michael said to do please, don't quit. I will
Speaker 3: take care of this. So what to Pauland's house And
Speaker 3: Pauland says, Tom, I'm ready to hire. I'm very excited
Speaker 3: to hire you. What should I pay you? And Michael,
Speaker 3: who's a very very intelligent man and a very saddened businessman,
Speaker 3: said pay me what you think is fair. And Pauland
Speaker 3: said to him, well, I understand the range of sellers
Speaker 3: for the president team is between one million and two million,
Speaker 3: so I hope to pay you one million. And I
Speaker 3: think Ted probably had a heart attack when he heard that,
Speaker 3: because he put it all in work, will go over
Speaker 3: and do it and coming to pauland and said, I
Speaker 3: have a suggestion, why don't you pay me two millions,
Speaker 3: give one by two million to West and I'm going
Speaker 3: to give the other million to charity. He worked for
Speaker 3: free and he took care of us. So Michael had
Speaker 3: a tremendous respect for the players that paved the path
Speaker 3: before him. No, one of the things that he's done,
Speaker 3: he's allowed the whole generations that came after him for
Speaker 3: the past four years to enjoy incredible commercial success off
Speaker 3: the board. And again that's one of the reasons I
Speaker 3: think he's the goat. But he always expressed a tremendous
Speaker 3: whatever differences he might have had with Jerry Krause, and
Speaker 3: if you saw the last dance, they were many. Of course,
Speaker 3: of course kept the problem. Now. I was amused with
Speaker 3: Rich Paul, I really liked said that Michael had the
Speaker 3: advantage of having Jerry Crouse. And I don't want to
Speaker 3: say anything angry about Jerry Krouse because he died and
Speaker 3: I'm good friends at ryin Star. But if you asked
Speaker 3: me what I put when I put him in my
Speaker 3: top twenty five gms over the last fifty years, I
Speaker 3: would not I would note if he made a lot
Speaker 3: of great, imprudent decisions. He drafted Charles Oakley over Karl Malone,
Speaker 3: he drafted Brad Sellers over Johnny Dalk as the national
Speaker 3: player there. And he made a lot of terrible decisions.
Speaker 3: But they want and that's all. That's all it matters, David.
Speaker 1: I want to know. I'm very I've always been very
Speaker 1: interested in asking you this question. When Magic Johnson and
Speaker 1: Larry Bird came into the league, obviously they deserve an
Speaker 1: immense credit for building the popularity of the NBA brand.
Speaker 1: Most would argue Jordan took it to another level. But
Speaker 1: he did so because his individual greatness was so supreme,
Speaker 1: so so so awesome that you know, he took the
Speaker 1: game in a different direction, but it also individualized the
Speaker 1: game more and as a result, people view that as
Speaker 1: hurting the game. I look at Lebron and not that
Speaker 1: he decided to depart from Cleveland to Miami, but how
Speaker 1: he handled it, as you talk about respecting the game,
Speaker 1: respecting the league, respecting the owner, etc. And the fact
Speaker 1: that he was willing to be he's so publicly defiant
Speaker 1: or dare I say dismissive of Dan Gilbert at that time.
Speaker 1: I thought it served to compromise player empowerment to some
Speaker 1: degree because collective bargaining negotiations took place thereafter. Remember there
Speaker 1: was a Chris Paul trade to the Lakers that was
Speaker 1: ultimately nixed once Dan Gilbert had raised Holy hell by
Speaker 1: writing a public letter to the league, et cetera. When
Speaker 1: you think about the damage that has been done to
Speaker 1: the league, which obviously is flourishing, and so we got
Speaker 1: to be careful with that word damaging. But if there's
Speaker 1: a negative, is it veering away from team with Bird
Speaker 1: and Magic and Boston and La to the individual greatness
Speaker 1: of a Michael Jordan Or is it along the lines
Speaker 1: of player empowerment and sovereignty exercised by the likes of
Speaker 1: Lebron James that clearly has appeared to have a residual impact.
Speaker 1: What is your thought about that question?
Speaker 3: Well, first of all, well Lebron went to Baiani. He
Speaker 3: was a free ager. He had the right to pick
Speaker 3: any TV of the leg that he thought would best.
Speaker 3: I have no I think the mistake he made, in
Speaker 3: my opinion, it was a few mistate if pr misteak
Speaker 3: was when he did the show the decision with Jim
Speaker 3: Gray and he said, I'm going to win not one,
Speaker 3: not two, not three, but eight titles, which he still
Speaker 3: has at one. I think if I were Lebron's met,
Speaker 3: and I love Maverick Carter, I'm very good friends with
Speaker 3: Marverck Carter, who's Lebron's marketing on, I would have told
Speaker 3: him do the interview and the day you win your
Speaker 3: first ring, the first not a have a show, hold
Speaker 3: up the ring and say this is why I came
Speaker 3: to Miami, this is I couldn't achieve this in Cleveland. Now. Interestingly,
Speaker 3: if I can give you a contrast, and I'm not
Speaker 3: saying one is right one's wrong, it's just personal preference.
Speaker 3: I asked Michael once, would you ever like to play
Speaker 3: with Birdie Magic, sort of like to recreate the Dream
Speaker 3: Team Olympic Barns, And he said, are you nuts? I
Speaker 3: would never want to play with bird Magic. I wanted
Speaker 3: to beat their butts every night on a one on
Speaker 3: one competitive level, and just different personalities. That doesn't make
Speaker 3: Lebron's choice wrong. And I want to be crystal clear,
Speaker 3: I'm great respect for Lebron as a player. I think
Speaker 3: his longevity, his impact, He's a great athlete, you know,
Speaker 3: I think he probably could have played on the sports
Speaker 3: And clearly, you know, when they asked me, do I
Speaker 3: think he's in the top ten, of course I think
Speaker 3: he's the top ten. Now. I had an interesting discussion
Speaker 3: over dinner with President Obama about this very subject, like
Speaker 3: who's number one, who's number two? I would say to
Speaker 3: you publicly, what difference does it make who's number two? Oh?
Speaker 3: Thing that makes the difference is who's number one? You
Speaker 3: know who runded around four years? I say, God, don't
Speaker 3: you think that the team that lost that Super Bowl
Speaker 3: was a great team? No, they didn't win the Super Bowl.
Speaker 3: Either one or you're not. And clearly Lebron will be
Speaker 3: in the pantheon of great players for a lot of
Speaker 3: years now. You could say arguably that the greatest player
Speaker 3: was Bill Russell because he won most championships eleven out
Speaker 3: of thirteen. You could say Oscar Robertson was the greatest
Speaker 3: player because the average of triple double. When Michael was
Speaker 3: asked in Cleveland, when they presented the top seventy five
Speaker 3: players of all time, who do you think is the
Speaker 3: greatest player of all time? Without hesitating, he said Oscar Robertson.
Speaker 3: When they asked Lebron. Who's the greatest player of all time?
Speaker 3: Without hesitating, he said Lebron James. Now, if someone asked me,
Speaker 3: who do you think is the greatest agent ever of
Speaker 3: all time? I say Larry Fleischer. He was the head
Speaker 3: of the Union. He created the rules that allowed free agency,
Speaker 3: all the things he did. Now, if someone thought that
Speaker 3: I was the greatest, I would let them say that.
Speaker 3: I would let you say that. I would never say
Speaker 3: that myself. I just don't think it's a for you
Speaker 3: to have to make that coming. But I want to
Speaker 3: be crystal clear nationally, I would never want to offend
Speaker 3: Lebron James. I like him. I think we have a
Speaker 3: good relationship. I think I have a prety good relationship
Speaker 3: with Rich and Maverick. And I monral Lebron for his
Speaker 3: commitment to the game, his longevity, and I think he's
Speaker 3: a completely different kind of a player than Michael most
Speaker 3: people that I respected basketball, if you were comparing Kobe
Speaker 3: and Lebron, saying Kobe's more like Michael and Lebron's more
Speaker 3: like Magic, and I can make an argument that Magic
Speaker 3: Johnson is one of the greatest players of all time. Now,
Speaker 3: think about this, Dudd Okay. In nineteen seventy nine in
Speaker 3: the NCAA Final, Magic squared afrigainst Burn. At the time,
Speaker 3: it was the highest rated game in the history of
Speaker 3: basketball at any level. Magic won. One year later, the
Speaker 3: Lakers are playing philm and you're home to in the
Speaker 3: NBA Finals, and in the game, Krim gets her Magic
Speaker 3: play center. I remember the exactly. I think he had
Speaker 3: thirty seven and fourteen, had the baby hook to.
Speaker 1: Win the game. Forty two he had, forty two. He
Speaker 1: had forty two.
Speaker 3: Yep, forty two and seventeen right huge rebounds. He won.
Speaker 3: The game was the Finals MVP and Rookie of the Year. Now,
Speaker 3: if he had a one year career, and I'm here
Speaker 3: to give my props to Magic Johnson from the time
Speaker 3: he won the NCAA to the time he'd be in
Speaker 3: the Hall of Fame. Just for that one year, that
Speaker 3: was one of the greatest impacts in basketball, college and
Speaker 3: pro in one year. On top of that, you know,
Speaker 3: as popular as Michael is. I think if Magic had
Speaker 3: the proper representation as were working and we try to
Speaker 3: sign it, we actually thought we're going to represent Magic.
Speaker 3: I think Magic could have done a lot of the
Speaker 3: things that Michael did at eighty four in nineteen seventy nine,
Speaker 3: but he didn't have an agent that had the marketing
Speaker 3: background or savvy right to understand the impact that Magic
Speaker 3: made in the number one media market entertainment market in
Speaker 3: the United States.
Speaker 1: David, before I let you get on out of here,
Speaker 1: i'd be remissing neglecting to ask you this question. You
Speaker 1: and I go back many years, many decades. We've known
Speaker 1: each other since nineteen ninety five for crying out loud
Speaker 1: rough around the edges at the beginning because I was
Speaker 1: ignorant and didn't know any better, and then appreciate your
Speaker 1: brilliance until later on when you took me under your wing.
Speaker 1: It taught me so many things over the years. I
Speaker 1: can't even express my level of gratitude to you, and
Speaker 1: we're friends to this day. I wonder, and I want
Speaker 1: to end this interview by asking you, being I'll say it,
Speaker 1: arguably the greatest agent ever in any sport, considering what
Speaker 1: you know, what you've negotiated, the connections that you have had,
Speaker 1: the inroads you have made along the way to influence
Speaker 1: the game, to influence sports overall. What are your thoughts
Speaker 1: about today's business as it pertains to agents in today's
Speaker 1: business compared to what it was when you were doing it.
Speaker 1: I'll give you the floor. That's my very last question.
Speaker 1: To you take the floor and answer that question.
Speaker 3: Please, it's a great it's a great question, stup. So
Speaker 3: Number one, I think that the preciple role of an
Speaker 3: agent in business, whether you a Hollywood agent or sports agent,
Speaker 3: is to negotiate contracts and something approximately seventy percent of
Speaker 3: all the contracts in the NBA today are not negotiated
Speaker 3: at all. If you're win Bayama and you're coming in
Speaker 3: the league as the number one pick or Cooper Flag,
Speaker 3: there's no negotiations. As a weight scale. If you're a
Speaker 3: great player like Lebron or kerg, Kevin Durant, luc and Donsis,
Speaker 3: there's no negotiations. There's a maximum. If you're an average player,
Speaker 3: most of the teams are pretty well capped. There are
Speaker 3: mid level exceptions, bi annual exceptions, there are minimums, and
Speaker 3: so the roll of an agent has been dramatically curtailed
Speaker 3: by the rules. It's very hard to make an impact.
Speaker 3: If I can give you an example, So in my career,
Speaker 3: as I mentioned, I had two rookies who are the
Speaker 3: highest paid players of all time. I negotiated the first
Speaker 3: ever one hundred million dollar contract Balonza Morning in nineteen
Speaker 3: ninety five for one hundred and sixteen million dollars for
Speaker 3: thirteen years, and I made him turn it down. One
Speaker 3: year later, he signed for one hundred and five for seven.
Speaker 3: He would have played six years for free, and he
Speaker 3: thought I'd lost my mind when I told him to
Speaker 3: turn it down. That was dramatically higher. I negotiated contract
Speaker 3: the same year for Juwan Howard, who was a great
Speaker 3: friend and a great player. He made seventy percent moan
Speaker 3: than Chris Weber on the same team, playing the same position.
Speaker 3: They went to the same college. I couldn't do that today,
Speaker 3: I remember, you can't do it. So the ability to
Speaker 3: separate was like in football, a great receiver separates himself,
Speaker 3: That's how he captures the ball. In today's NBA, an
Speaker 3: agent can't separate himself. And that frustrates me. It takes
Speaker 3: away a lot of your creativity, a lot of the
Speaker 3: things that I did that enabled me. Now I was
Speaker 3: I was. I want to return the favorite of my
Speaker 3: friend Rich Paul. I was disappointed that Rich Paul mistakenly
Speaker 3: compared by comment about cherry picking, which means that you
Speaker 3: are you are picking where you want to go, which
Speaker 3: which your player has every right to do, is a
Speaker 3: free agent. To the fact that three of the greatest
Speaker 3: coaches in the history of college basketball, Dean Smith, John Thompson,
Speaker 3: and Coach pay recommended me to their players. And the
Speaker 3: reason he recommended me wasn't because they liked me. It's
Speaker 3: because our track record with the rookies was so superior
Speaker 3: to anyone else in the business that it was an
Speaker 3: easy decision for them. Now, if I can give you
Speaker 3: and your listeners an analogy to answer your first Pacific question, student,
Speaker 3: I think the greatest investor in the history of the
Speaker 3: United States was Warren Buffett, and he's also one of
Speaker 3: the richest men. Now, if the Securities Exchange Commission, which
Speaker 3: regulates investments, passed a rule and said no investment manager
Speaker 3: can get more than a six percent return, you know
Speaker 3: it's illegal to get more than six percent, he would
Speaker 3: turn Warren Buffett into a first year kid out of
Speaker 3: business school. I'll give you another example. Okay, I use
Speaker 3: this frequently. I'm going to take Lebron back to his
Speaker 3: days in Cleveland. Okay, early days, the NBA passes the
Speaker 3: rule they say no player could score more than twelve
Speaker 3: points a game. It's like fouling out. Once you had twelve,
Speaker 3: you got to sit down. Now, Gollic Lebron James would
Speaker 3: score twelve points in the first three minutes of the game.
Speaker 3: He could literally go to a movie, come back and
Speaker 3: meet with his teammates, you know, after the game. So
Speaker 3: the season ends and he goes out to lunch with
Speaker 3: his teammate Matthew Dalla Vadovo, and he says, Dalli, what
Speaker 3: kind of year did you have? And Dallas says, average
Speaker 3: forty one minutes and twelve points a game, And how'd
Speaker 3: you do Lebron? Lebron say, will average three minutes and
Speaker 3: twelve points a game, and Dallas says, well, I guess
Speaker 3: we both the same kind of players because the rules
Speaker 3: have homogenized Lebron's ability to be Lebron. And that's what
Speaker 3: the agent business, in my opinion, has become. So I
Speaker 3: was intrigued when the current MVP shake Gilgos Alexander decided
Speaker 3: to represent himself. And while I think that there are
Speaker 3: many reasons that shake yogis Alexander needs an agent, he
Speaker 3: may want to get traded, he may be having problems
Speaker 3: with the team. And there's a famous expression, Steven that
Speaker 3: a lawyer who represents himself has a full for a client.
Speaker 3: And so it's very difficult to walk in and say
Speaker 3: I should be you know, I don't want to be here.
Speaker 3: That's why you need third party people. But I think
Speaker 3: that the I think that a lot of great players
Speaker 3: are going to do what Kevin Durant did with Rich
Speaker 3: Climbing a little bit what Lebron did with with Maverick
Speaker 3: Carter and have one person as sort of like their
Speaker 3: business manager, because the role of the negotiations has to climb. Now,
Speaker 3: the other part that's critically important is marketing, and you know,
Speaker 3: I think that, you know, I find of thing with
Speaker 3: Aaron Goodwin. I think Aaron at one point had Lebron,
Speaker 3: Dwight Howard, Kevin Durant, and Horford. He did an amazing
Speaker 3: job for those guys in marketing. He got Lebron a
Speaker 3: one hundred million dollar deal with Nike as a rookie,
Speaker 3: got a big deal for Dwight Howard Royalties. I think,
Speaker 3: you know, I think he's and I think there's a
Speaker 3: very very important role for the star players to have
Speaker 3: someone off the court. But as I said at the conference,
Speaker 3: if I were coming out of law school today, based
Speaker 3: on the state of the Union of the sports world,
Speaker 3: I would definitely want to be in sports, but I
Speaker 3: probably would not want to be an agent. I almost
Speaker 3: definitely would not want to be an agent. And that's
Speaker 3: why this spring, when my last client, Otto Porter Junior, retired,
Speaker 3: I've let it run out. I don't want to sign
Speaker 3: any more players. I love basketball, love what it's done
Speaker 3: for me. I am humbled by the fact that some
Speaker 3: fourteen Hall of Fame players have the trust of their
Speaker 3: careers for me, including the Goat. Everyone knows you know
Speaker 3: how important that relationship has been in my life. I
Speaker 3: would expand that include Patrick coach Thompson, who's the number
Speaker 3: one John Thompson in my books. You know, if you
Speaker 3: read my book The Ball Truth, John Thompson was the
Speaker 3: most influential man in my life. Not the most influential coach,
Speaker 3: not the most influential client, the most influent. I learned
Speaker 3: so much from John that he should have been and
Speaker 3: so I've been privileged to work for the best of
Speaker 3: the brightest, privileged to meet people who are great their profession,
Speaker 3: like you, I admire what you've done in your career
Speaker 3: since we've known each other from the time they were
Speaker 3: cub Report in Philly. And I want to end by
Speaker 3: saying this is not this you know, last thing I
Speaker 3: want to say in the day Magic Isaiah Mark mc
Speaker 3: guire her boy, and so I really like represented by
Speaker 3: a guy and Charlie Talker. He was a fun guy.
Speaker 3: I like Charlie and our guys they were more urban guys.
Speaker 3: Our guys all came, as Rich pointed out, from Carolina, Duke, Georgetown, Kansas,
Speaker 3: you know. And the coaches basically gave us the players.
Speaker 3: They didn't do it to do us a favor. They
Speaker 3: didn't do it because they had any benefit. They did
Speaker 3: it because they wanted their players to make the most
Speaker 3: money that they could. And it was sort of like
Speaker 3: it was like the Bloods and the Crips. They were
Speaker 3: sold a little competition or in the All Star Game
Speaker 3: in eighty five, I would name names some of the
Speaker 3: players from that group try to incruit Michael to leave
Speaker 3: us and can go with Charlie Tucker, and Michael was
Speaker 3: really offended because he's such an incredibly loyal person and
Speaker 3: so It's not a battle between Michael and Lebron. I
Speaker 3: think that two of the greatest players in history, not
Speaker 3: necessarily the two greatest players, two of the greatest players
Speaker 3: in history. Lebron's earned my respect, you know, a long
Speaker 3: time ago, and if I say anything that offended him,
Speaker 3: I would publicly apologize. Not my intent, I think it.
Speaker 3: As Michael correctly points out, maybe it's a good way
Speaker 3: to end the discussion. It is almost impossible to could
Speaker 3: players from different eras. When Bill Russell won eleven titles,
Speaker 3: there are only eight teams in the league. When UCLA
Speaker 3: won all those championships in a row, there was only
Speaker 3: sixteen teams in the In the NCAA tournament, it's a
Speaker 3: lot easier you start out in the sixteen today. Getting
Speaker 3: to the screen sixteen is a pretty good accomplishment for
Speaker 3: a lot of teams. But what I think separates Michael
Speaker 3: from every other player is not how many games you
Speaker 3: want or how many points he scored. It's the impact
Speaker 3: that he made on the game in so many different areas.
Speaker 3: As I mentioned earlier, being the first player to be
Speaker 3: a majority owner, the opportunities that he personally and individually created.
Speaker 3: You know, there was a whole a bunch of people
Speaker 3: Stephen after Jordan came to the league. It's like the
Speaker 3: search for the fountain of youth. They want to know,
Speaker 3: is Harold Miner nicknamed Baby Jordan? Was he going to
Speaker 3: be the next guy? Was Petty Hardaway going to be
Speaker 3: the next guy? At one point it was gonna be
Speaker 3: Ron Harper was going to be the next guy. And
Speaker 3: the truth is, they'll never be another Michael. They just won't.
Speaker 3: He came from an incredible family, two petam family, you know,
Speaker 3: credible coach, and so let's leave it that. You know,
Speaker 3: let's leave it that way.
Speaker 1: Well, listen, we'll leave it that way. I mean, Michael
Speaker 1: Jordan is my goat as well. But that's no disrespect
Speaker 1: to Lebron James. There's no disrespect in being perceived as
Speaker 1: one of the top two players in the history of
Speaker 1: basketball or anything like that. But the bottom line is this,
Speaker 1: no matter how grateful we all are to have seen
Speaker 1: great players and have witnessed the greatness of gods like them,
Speaker 1: I've also been very, very grateful and very lucky to
Speaker 1: witness the greatness of you, my man. We go back
Speaker 1: decades and I appreciate all you've done to edify me
Speaker 1: and help me along the way in my career. And
Speaker 1: I'm honored to have had this conversation with you. David Falk.
Speaker 1: You're one of the best ever, so I really really
Speaker 1: appreciate you taking time out of your busy schedule to
Speaker 1: sit down with me and talk with me about this subject. Right,
Speaker 1: you take care of yourself. Okay, we'll talk, So thank
Speaker 1: you for your time.
Speaker 3: Word jump, are very.
Speaker 1: Grateful, all right, my man, take care The one and
Speaker 1: only David Falk right here when the Stephen A. Smith
Speaker 1: Show of the digital areas of YouTube and of course
Speaker 1: our heart radio.
Speaker 3: Yeah,