Speaker 1: Of the law and Order franchises. SVU is considered especially watchable.
Speaker 2: We are the amateur detectives who kind of investigate the
Speaker 2: vicious felonies.
Speaker 3: These episodes are based on. These are our stories.
Speaker 4: Done done.
Speaker 1: Hi, Welcome to That's Messed Up, an SVU podcast.
Speaker 3: I am Kara Klank and I'm Liza Traeger.
Speaker 2: We talk SVU, we talk crimes, and then we have
Speaker 2: amazing guests and we're so excited that you are joining us.
Speaker 2: Today we have a jam packed superstar episode. I would
Speaker 2: say so thrilling that you're joining us. Also, I didn't
Speaker 2: tell you I saw Leland, creator of RuPaul Songs.
Speaker 1: Yeah, he was at the Soho House show. So oh
Speaker 1: that's fun. He's such a nice guy. It was thrilling.
Speaker 1: And Barbie Ferrara from Euphoria was there, Oh, excuse me right,
Speaker 1: rubbing elbows.
Speaker 2: It was really thrilling. She was Yeah. I felt like
Speaker 2: a cool kid. And great Cosmos. I think Cosmo's my
Speaker 2: new drink. I had a great one at Elpenguino in
Speaker 2: New York. It needs to be a classy place. You
Speaker 2: don't want like, you don't want a bad Cosmo, but
Speaker 2: I like it to.
Speaker 3: Be light pink like light. It should not be red.
Speaker 1: It should not have so much cranberry juice in it,
Speaker 1: Like it's just that's a tarash baby.
Speaker 3: Should be tart.
Speaker 2: Yeah, pink and amazing and in thick, fucking beautiful glassware.
Speaker 2: And that's what this. I'm not a member of the
Speaker 2: Soho House. I was just performing. I am not that cool.
Speaker 2: She was the hired help. Yeah, there were just celebs
Speaker 2: happened to have been there. But the glass I love
Speaker 2: the Soho House glassware. It feels so special.
Speaker 1: I went there one time and tried to take a
Speaker 1: picture of the view and I got in trouble.
Speaker 3: I did it.
Speaker 1: No one had told me that you're not allowed to
Speaker 1: take photos there, so I was like not taking a
Speaker 1: picture of a celebrity. I was truly like, oh, what
Speaker 1: a nice view, and they were like, no photos, and
Speaker 1: I was like, okay, thank you.
Speaker 5: Now.
Speaker 3: I feel uncomfortable the entire time.
Speaker 1: But I saw a movie in their little screening room
Speaker 1: and it was cool.
Speaker 3: It was cool.
Speaker 1: They have like a deal for young members, like I
Speaker 1: think people that are like under thirty, and I went
Speaker 1: with people that were young, like young and this was
Speaker 1: years ago, but yeah, I think they're trying to like,
Speaker 1: you know, give a deal to young hottie so that
Speaker 1: they can fill the place up with people like that.
Speaker 3: But creatives you have.
Speaker 1: To be yeah, yea, yeah, no, I went with an
Speaker 1: actor and yeah, but I don't even know who Barbi
Speaker 1: Feriri is because I don't watch it. But I'm sorry,
Speaker 1: I don't watch Euphoria, so I don't know her character.
Speaker 1: But I just know who she is from Instagram and
Speaker 1: I'm like intimidated by her.
Speaker 3: She is so so cool.
Speaker 2: I actually did talk to her because I said, you know,
Speaker 2: not to be a creep, but I've been a fan
Speaker 2: of yours for years because years ago for Halloween, she
Speaker 2: dressed up as Isabella Rassollini from Death Becomes Her Oh amazing,
Speaker 2: and she had like the pin top and then partner
Speaker 2: was like, well that's a deep cut, and I'm like,
Speaker 2: I'm not a creep. I just love Halloween. Yeah and
Speaker 2: that movie.
Speaker 1: Did you know her from something before Euphoria at all?
Speaker 2: For being a model? Oh got it. I was like,
Speaker 2: she was a fashion girl model for a long time. Yeah,
Speaker 2: so I just have been following her career. But amazing.
Speaker 2: I'm taking my kids to drag Con this weekend. I
Speaker 2: know this is in the time machine, this will have
Speaker 2: passed by, but I just wanted to let Lisa know that, Yeah,
Speaker 2: bringing both of my children. I was able to score
Speaker 2: free tickets because you know, I still have one or
Speaker 2: two connects over at the old Wow.
Speaker 3: And so I'm really excited. Did you have to get
Speaker 3: tickets for the kids?
Speaker 1: They're free, but you do have to get tickets for them.
Speaker 1: And I just like was like, listen, don't make me pay.
Speaker 1: I'm gonna be in there for an hour and a
Speaker 1: half with two kids that could explode at any moment, Like,
Speaker 1: don't make me pay. Like, so, I got free tickets,
Speaker 1: and I'm excited. I'm gonna go see the queens, see
Speaker 1: the dolls, introduce them to my little nuggets, and we'll
Speaker 1: see who's there.
Speaker 2: I'm really excited for the kids, and I've been telling
Speaker 2: to dress them up. I don't think to tell them.
Speaker 1: I told Rosie, I said, we're gonna go to this
Speaker 1: like special thing and we're gonna see drag Queens. And
Speaker 1: she goes from Drag Race because she knows about the
Speaker 1: show Drag Race, because she's seen me watch it before.
Speaker 1: I don't think she knows what drag queens really are.
Speaker 1: But I do think she's just gonna be wowed by
Speaker 1: like the spectacle of it all. And I think she's
Speaker 1: gonna love if she sees any.
Speaker 2: Guys butts, she'll be like booties, She's gonna love it.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I don't know how kids don't.
Speaker 2: That's why the people that are like, why are drag
Speaker 2: queens reading to kids? And it's like because they're full
Speaker 2: of glitter and color, like what are you talking about?
Speaker 4: Yeah?
Speaker 1: Or they're like no, or they're like no, can't get
Speaker 1: pride because it's a family event. And I'm like, Rosie
Speaker 1: doesn't know. You could like hand Rosie a double sided
Speaker 1: dildo and she'd be like, I'm gonna get you smell
Speaker 1: like you know, she's not.
Speaker 3: It's not. That doesn't bother me, Like it's not. I
Speaker 3: don't know.
Speaker 1: It's wild what people think is hurting their children. I
Speaker 1: think they'll all realize when their kids are addicted to
Speaker 1: oxy because they shame them for their entire lives. Okay, Wow,
Speaker 1: Dark Dark coming out coming out?
Speaker 3: Strong? Hold on? You know what else? We were right?
Speaker 2: We called out the Dirty Shirley before New York Magazine Day,
Speaker 2: So how cool is that?
Speaker 3: And I know people say this, and.
Speaker 2: Then I actually said this to someone in person and
Speaker 2: they're like, yeah, yeah, but I was Espressomartini before the craze,
Speaker 2: and I was Dirty Shirley before the craze, and I
Speaker 2: just know what's up, so sorry.
Speaker 1: It is really funny though, how things come back around.
Speaker 1: Like I had to make espressomartinis all the time in
Speaker 1: two thousand and one when I worked as a bar
Speaker 1: as a waitress in Boston, and then they did totally
Speaker 1: like come back, or like Negronis came back like two
Speaker 1: summers ago.
Speaker 3: Or I'm not a gin girl, no, I mean listen.
Speaker 1: Somebody also wrote to us and was like dirty Shirley's
Speaker 1: all that sugar. I'm not suggesting anyone pound seven dirty
Speaker 1: Shirley's in a night like one or two. You really
Speaker 1: can't drink those all night or you will feel that show.
Speaker 2: But I had a like I was hungover on Monday
Speaker 2: and I had to host that a show, and I
Speaker 2: just had a Shirley Temple to get the night started,
Speaker 2: just to like pump me up, taste delicious, like no
Speaker 2: one's saying it has to be your full even rocktail always.
Speaker 1: And I wish I could drink espresso Martini's with you guys,
Speaker 1: because how fun to like be getting drunk but also
Speaker 1: getting like a little caffeine buzz.
Speaker 3: And that I just don't like the taste.
Speaker 2: But that's specific, like cosmos, Like you don't want it
Speaker 2: to be light and creamy. You want it to be
Speaker 2: super dark with foam on top, like I hate when
Speaker 2: it's if.
Speaker 3: I so now I ask, Now, I go, is it
Speaker 3: light or dark? Before I order?
Speaker 1: Well, we were at Portland having dinner before our show, and.
Speaker 3: They made a weird thing.
Speaker 1: They did bring you basically a nice coffee and a
Speaker 1: martini club.
Speaker 2: But I had like some spices. I mean, I don't know.
Speaker 2: I was excited to get tipsy, I guess.
Speaker 3: So that was all right.
Speaker 1: Yeah, but oh, this is like not that new of
Speaker 1: a story about you know, we have talked about the
Speaker 1: guy who was being charged with murder because of a fitbit.
Speaker 1: His wife's fitbit provided evidence and he lied to authorities
Speaker 1: and they were able to prove it with the fitbit.
Speaker 3: He has been convicted.
Speaker 2: So he has been convicted of murder in Connecticut and
Speaker 2: the case was built on the evidence provided by the
Speaker 2: fitbit exercise.
Speaker 3: I think I knew that that was in Connecticut when
Speaker 3: we first talked about it, vern in Connecticut.
Speaker 1: Vernon, Connecticut. Wow, I'm not even positive where that is.
Speaker 1: That's that's wild. There's like so many random murders happening
Speaker 1: in Connecticut of wives lately. Also because in twenty nineteen,
Speaker 1: this woman with five children disappeared from my town and
Speaker 1: her husband definitely killed her because he tried to take
Speaker 1: his own life like a few weeks later and failed,
Speaker 1: I think.
Speaker 3: And yeah, it's like the Jennifer Doulo's case.
Speaker 1: There was like a huge article about it in Oh Gosh,
Speaker 1: Vanity Fair, I think, And uh oh no, he did die.
Speaker 1: He did die eventually, his suicide attempt didn't work for
Speaker 1: like a while, and then he was in the hospital
Speaker 1: and then he did die.
Speaker 3: So he died too.
Speaker 1: So now these kids have no kids because this man
Speaker 1: and it was like a crazy narcissist who had to
Speaker 1: kill his wife ex wife.
Speaker 3: And yeah, they're from my town.
Speaker 1: But luckily her family's very loaded and so her parents
Speaker 1: are going to take care of these children. And you know,
Speaker 1: small silver lining.
Speaker 2: I think the Connecticut of it all just off basic stereotypes.
Speaker 3: Is repressed living a lie.
Speaker 2: Yeah about appearances, people that are like gay in the city,
Speaker 2: straight in the suburbs, totally like that kind of vibe
Speaker 2: and so I and why and not talking about feelings
Speaker 2: and I think that leads to murder. Yeah, just like
Speaker 2: dickhead finance people. Yeah, totally. It's You're right.
Speaker 1: That is all the ingredients that are in Connecticut. It's
Speaker 1: like the secret family capital of the Northeast.
Speaker 3: For sure. Secret family Capital is hysterical. Yeah.
Speaker 2: I was just talking to someone not so much about lying,
Speaker 2: but like about lying, just like people that are so
Speaker 2: no shame will tree into hiring them even though they
Speaker 2: don't even have the skills, like the arrogant life.
Speaker 5: Like.
Speaker 2: I was just talking with our friend Sydney where sometimes
Speaker 2: she's like, I wish I was psycho like some of
Speaker 2: these people.
Speaker 1: Yeah, sometimes you like look at the faked till you
Speaker 1: make it peap.
Speaker 2: I wish I could just run in there and be like,
Speaker 2: oh yeah, I could do that and not be able
Speaker 2: to do it and be fine with that.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 2: I actually would never want to be like that, but
Speaker 2: we were just talking about people.
Speaker 1: I would think that that would give you an absolute
Speaker 1: ulcer to just know that you're like, well, everybody gets
Speaker 1: a little bit of imposter syndrome here and there, but
Speaker 1: like you truly are not qualified for the job that
Speaker 1: you're doing, and aren't you just so worried every day
Speaker 1: that someone's gonna bust you?
Speaker 3: But I guess not. I guess part of it is
Speaker 3: like you have blinders to that shame.
Speaker 2: But they also teach you that lie on your resume,
Speaker 2: fluff it up, lie in the interview, who gives a shit?
Speaker 2: And then you get the job and it's like, what
Speaker 2: the fuck are you doing here? You're actually affecting people's lives,
Speaker 2: So like, what are you doing? Yeah, you fucking grifter?
Speaker 2: I don't know, well, yeah.
Speaker 1: I mean definitely there's a spectrum between like fluff up
Speaker 1: your res because I've definitely fluffed my resume a little bit,
Speaker 1: and you know, full fake like lying or saying you know,
Speaker 1: like fucking doctor Death, like somehow this man is able
Speaker 1: to do surgeries when he doesn't know how. Like that
Speaker 1: was like the ultimate faked till you make good story
Speaker 1: that I when I listened to a fellow Wondery podcast
Speaker 1: doctor Death about this man like went to medical school,
Speaker 1: did not do enough surgeries, and then it's just doing
Speaker 1: surgeries on people killing them and paralyzing them, and no
Speaker 1: one is stopping him because he's just confident. He was
Speaker 1: like a football player. It's like he learned how to
Speaker 1: be confident on the football field and translated that to
Speaker 1: his medical life.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 2: And you just see people work and maneuver at these
Speaker 2: parties and the way they speak, and suddenly you're like, oh,
Speaker 2: you're like a calculated lunatic. Yeah, look at you work.
Speaker 2: This room, as our friends call it, shark eyes.
Speaker 1: Yes, a bunch of shark eyed fucking freaks. All right, guys.
Speaker 1: In two days, on June ninth, we are going to
Speaker 1: be in San Francisco at Cobbs Comedy Club.
Speaker 3: Help us sell this fucker out.
Speaker 1: It's going to be so fun. We love San Francisco.
Speaker 1: We're really excited to meet you, guys. We have special
Speaker 1: tour merch. We're pumped. Please come. And then later in
Speaker 1: the month of June, on the nineteenth, we're going to
Speaker 1: be at the Minneapolis Comedy Festival.
Speaker 3: Look, that's a four o'clock show.
Speaker 1: Can easily brunch with your dad and then bounce to
Speaker 1: go to our four o'clock show and then be back
Speaker 1: with your dad whatever. I don't know what your dad
Speaker 1: obligations are. I know it's Father's Day, but just come
Speaker 1: see us. And then on the twentieth and the twenty first,
Speaker 1: we're going to be at Zany's Downtown in Chicago. One
Speaker 1: show per night, different shows. By the way, if you
Speaker 1: want to see us cover different episodes, do different games,
Speaker 1: everything like that, buy tickets to both nights.
Speaker 3: I'm not going to stop you. And yeah, that's it, And.
Speaker 2: Now get ready, this episode's about to blow your mind.
Speaker 3: Wow, no pun intended. All right? Are doing Loss?
Speaker 2: Season five, Episode four fifty four is my lucky number?
Speaker 3: No big deal.
Speaker 2: And I would say this is a truly iconic episode
Speaker 2: of television, change dest view forever. I don't know. I
Speaker 2: love this episode and I feel honored to be talking
Speaker 2: about it. So it opens up and it's a woman
Speaker 2: with blonde hair and leopard pants with a neong green
Speaker 2: shirt and blazer and she has a white mini poodle
Speaker 2: on with anna leash with a pink bow in the hair.
Speaker 2: So iconic start. The woman is like the younger version
Speaker 2: of the older woman in Something about Mary.
Speaker 3: Yeah Magda okay?
Speaker 5: So is that?
Speaker 3: So she has that kind of vibe of like she.
Speaker 2: Seems so familiar to me, and I looked her up
Speaker 2: and she's only been in like a couple of episodes
Speaker 2: of Law and Order at NSVU, and I'm like, I
Speaker 2: swear this woman's in movies.
Speaker 3: And no, well it's like a type.
Speaker 2: It's like what leach blonde hair, super tan, just like Cookie,
Speaker 2: you know, like with her dog.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 2: And I also did do a rewatch recently on a
Speaker 2: plane of something about Mary and one of the detectives
Speaker 2: is named Detective Stabler. And but it's hard to research
Speaker 2: like why or maybe someone loved SVU or was this
Speaker 2: before or after.
Speaker 3: Because or like because.
Speaker 2: I was like, maybe there is an old timey detective
Speaker 2: Stabler in like a black and white movie we don't
Speaker 2: know about. But if you look up Stabler on Google,
Speaker 2: it's about Elliott Stabler.
Speaker 3: I just did.
Speaker 1: And I literally have never met a person with the
Speaker 1: last named Stabler in my life.
Speaker 2: Yeah, so I was like, I'm not digging through all
Speaker 2: Elliot Stabler stuff to find if there's an elderly thing.
Speaker 2: But I didn't know if maybe Stabler is some Latin
Speaker 2: word that.
Speaker 3: Means detective, Like who fucking knows.
Speaker 2: I just thought the coincidence of having two detective Stablers
Speaker 2: is kind of wild. So she's doing baby talk with
Speaker 2: the dog and then pulls a bad girl move she
Speaker 2: leaves the dog shit.
Speaker 3: But also who can blame her? No one wants to
Speaker 3: touch dog shit.
Speaker 2: It's honestly like the worst grossest thing ever, but also
Speaker 2: a bitch move. Like dog shit on a cement is
Speaker 2: gross and it's worse than I'm grass. Like dog shit
Speaker 2: in the streets of Brooklyn is it's so unsightly. The
Speaker 2: thing is, I have dog sat and I didn't want
Speaker 2: to pick up the shit, and I've tried to pretend
Speaker 2: to be like, oh, I don't, and then someone caught me,
Speaker 2: like I it is a disgusting choice.
Speaker 1: It's probably one of the main reasons I don't want
Speaker 1: a dog, like I just do not want to.
Speaker 3: Pick up the shit. I know.
Speaker 1: I have kids, but like at three years old, they're
Speaker 1: doing their own shit, you know, not at three you're
Speaker 1: still wiping the butt.
Speaker 2: No, Rosie does. Rosie pretty much does it herself. She's
Speaker 2: wiping her own ass. Yeah, that's pretty wild.
Speaker 1: If she needs help, I'm like, I might do like
Speaker 1: a quick like you know, backup wipe, but it's not
Speaker 1: I'm not touching shit, you know.
Speaker 2: No, I would baby sat people way older than Rosie
Speaker 2: that just like fully bend over and I have to
Speaker 2: wipe their butts, And it's.
Speaker 1: Like, maybe's that's for a five year old? Who goes,
Speaker 1: can you come in and pull it out? And I
Speaker 1: was like, I texted as mom, she goes, you don't
Speaker 1: have to do that. I go, yeah, I mean I
Speaker 1: wasn't going to, but I just he to just see
Speaker 1: like is this normal practice?
Speaker 3: That's disgusting?
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's gross, but anyway, I know I don't like
Speaker 1: the feeling of like putting your hand in the bag
Speaker 1: and touching like warm poop on a dog.
Speaker 3: No, and our friends the choices.
Speaker 2: I've dogs sat their dog Chevy, who has the most
Speaker 2: giant shits I've ever.
Speaker 3: Seen, Like Chevy's a turbo shitter.
Speaker 2: It is like so giant, I don't know, but a
Speaker 2: little dog maybe a little Pomeranian. Anyways, this dog's name
Speaker 2: is Tootsi, so that's cute and TUTSI loves garbage and
Speaker 2: she starts digging in the trash and her owner's like, ew,
Speaker 2: you're better than that, but then goes, oh my god,
Speaker 2: a fur coat. Okay, Tootsy, and she's about to steal
Speaker 2: this fur coat out of the trash, but little does
Speaker 2: she know she's in the opening of an episode of
Speaker 2: svo So sorry, lady, there is a dead woman underneath
Speaker 2: that coat. She screams, oh no and runs off. So
Speaker 2: now we cut to the police and they're on the
Speaker 2: scene and the victim is Olivia taeez. She's twenty three
Speaker 2: years old from Queen's found naked. That's upsetting. Purse with
Speaker 2: money and cards are still in the trash. This is
Speaker 2: not a robbery and just covered in this fur Melinda
Speaker 2: was straightened. Haror tales Benson in her full Golden Bieber
Speaker 2: social studies teacher moment, in a brown sway jacket and
Speaker 2: I think I need well, I don't swayed.
Speaker 3: It seems hard to take care of.
Speaker 2: But I hugged someone yesterday that was in a tan
Speaker 2: swayed jacket and it felt nice. Yeah, it's like a
Speaker 2: nice material for all those swede heads out there. So
Speaker 2: the victim hasn't even been dead for twelve hours. There's
Speaker 2: no stabber gun shot wounds. There's trauma just to the
Speaker 2: left side of the face and torso, which means that
Speaker 2: she was beaten to death, which is fucked up, Like
Speaker 2: how hard. Do you have to beat someone to kill them?
Speaker 2: Like that is the yeah, very sopranos.
Speaker 3: So there are.
Speaker 2: Fluids and she was moved post mortem, so this is
Speaker 2: not the place of the murder. Stabler with his Sonny
Speaker 2: is like halfway down his nose like very they had.
Speaker 2: Like the shape of this unglasses isn't like full American
Speaker 2: flag twitter guy, but not not that like not a
Speaker 2: great shape of glasses.
Speaker 1: It's also like David Caruso in CSI, like he was
Speaker 1: always whipping his glasses off.
Speaker 2: And shit, yeah, it has not a good thing. And
Speaker 2: he like you, he goes dump job, but why here?
Speaker 2: And it's like, just stop using that word. I don't know,
Speaker 2: it's so disrespectful. So while Benson and Stabler pass theories
Speaker 2: back and forth, Melinda is digging something out of the
Speaker 2: victim's mouth. And what we find out is the killer
Speaker 2: cut the tongue out of the mouth, so that's obviously
Speaker 2: a message, and but the tongue is nowhere to be found.
Speaker 2: So Melinda goes, I would check that dog, and then
Speaker 2: it cuts into credit.
Speaker 3: He totally ate that tongue.
Speaker 2: We cut back from the credits to a landlord who
Speaker 2: has all the scoop Olivia is pretty and nice, but
Speaker 2: he didn't really know her. She lived there two years,
Speaker 2: paid on time, and that's it. He thought she was illegal.
Speaker 2: But then he believes that the whole country was founded
Speaker 2: on illegals, so who is he to judge? And you
Speaker 2: can't argue with that. But then he's like, so on it.
Speaker 2: He's just like Puerto Rican Mexican. I can't tell the difference,
Speaker 2: and I just I like, I like this guy's honesty.
Speaker 2: You know, he he brings his opinions out out.
Speaker 3: His opinions are out.
Speaker 2: He loves illegals, but he doesn't know exactly where they're from.
Speaker 2: We get a glimpse of Ice in his full puffy
Speaker 2: ponytail era. So him and Munch get from the apartment
Speaker 2: like she wasn't home very much. The apartment's very empty.
Speaker 2: And then the landlord's like, oh god, I got a
Speaker 2: leaky pipe to fix. And that is the biggest piece
Speaker 2: of fiction I've ever seen on SVU. A landlord running
Speaker 2: to fix the pipe. That's when when when is he
Speaker 2: leaving to rush to actually do a job and not
Speaker 2: going is it your fault? The pipe is leaking? Like
Speaker 2: this is this is a farce. But Ice, you know,
Speaker 2: it reveals how Munch lives like a monk. So he goes,
Speaker 2: can you explain why someone would live a life with
Speaker 2: no knickknacks or photos? And I'm like, I'm with you, Ice,
Speaker 2: you know where are the knickknacks? Yeah, show us the knickknacks,
Speaker 2: and Munch says, well, some people like to live simply,
Speaker 2: but also maybe some people lost all their knickknacks and
Speaker 2: the divorce and I want to know what nickknacks all
Speaker 2: of Munch's ex wives took from him?
Speaker 3: Like what was it? Did he have the bullet from
Speaker 3: the JFK shooting? Like what is Munch collecting?
Speaker 2: But Munch does find something in the drawer and it's
Speaker 2: a plane ticket from Miami the day she died, So that's,
Speaker 2: you know something. Ice also pulls up Benson and is like, damn,
Speaker 2: look at all this designer stuff. This is where she
Speaker 2: spent her money. And then he calls it ho gear,
Speaker 2: which I love. And you know, Ice or Finn loves
Speaker 2: a strip club, so we know that he's well versed
Speaker 2: in ho gear. I think he says ho gear with love.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, I'm not in himselt at all. Yeah, with
Speaker 2: love yes. Oh no, He goes, wow, look at this
Speaker 2: brand name ho Gear. He loved it. He goes, this
Speaker 2: is worth real money. Yeah, he goes, this is where
Speaker 2: she's spending her cash. This is high quality ho Gear.
Speaker 2: But she's not illegal. They find a social Security card
Speaker 2: and so we're back in the squadroom trying to figure
Speaker 2: things out.
Speaker 3: Because things are fishy.
Speaker 2: Sabler says there's no action on that social until two
Speaker 2: thousand and one. The license she has is from two
Speaker 2: thousand and one. She has no relatives. It's like she
Speaker 2: appeared out of thin air and they have already checked
Speaker 2: all the witness protection stuff.
Speaker 3: There's nothing there.
Speaker 2: So Munch goes, listen, I know I'm the resident kook,
Speaker 2: but what if it's a spook? Love the rhyming and
Speaker 2: that means spy for those who don't know, And Craigan
Speaker 2: suggests hitting up the CIA to see what's up. But
Speaker 2: first we got to stop at the morgue and Melinda
Speaker 2: says that the talk screen came back positive of cocaine,
Speaker 2: but there was a necklace caught in her hair and
Speaker 2: it's of what we're gonna find out later. It's not this,
Speaker 2: but it looks like a mother Mary Baby Jesus smoke. Okay,
Speaker 2: it's like a Catholic iconography necklace. Benson makes a little joke.
Speaker 2: She's like, oh, well, Latina, who's a Catholic. That'll narrow
Speaker 2: it down. So I love a joke at the morgue,
Speaker 2: keeping it light as dead bodies surround you. So now
Speaker 2: there are cuts on her legs that were made by us,
Speaker 2: slippers of fiberglass inside it, so that is a clue
Speaker 2: the fiberglass. And the lab said that there was powder
Speaker 2: on the fur coat, and she sprays down the fur
Speaker 2: coat and it turns purple, which means that it was
Speaker 2: covered in cocaine.
Speaker 3: So maybe she was a.
Speaker 2: Dealer, but they don't understand how she could be a
Speaker 2: dealer because it didn't look like she had wealth or drugs,
Speaker 2: so you know, they don't know. So the detectives go
Speaker 2: outside and Staler shows us why he makes the big bucks.
Speaker 2: He notices a Chevy Caprice with two white males that
Speaker 2: has been following them, so the detectives start running towards
Speaker 2: the car as it speeds off.
Speaker 3: So Benson's like, what the hell is this?
Speaker 2: And they're yelling and they're both kind of breathing heavy
Speaker 2: and Stabler is another smart idea. He's like, oh, fuck,
Speaker 2: this is a hooker with a soul that sounds like
Speaker 2: someone's sister Peg would want to say, And so he
Speaker 2: is right on the money.
Speaker 3: They head, you know, towards sister.
Speaker 2: Peg, and she says she's never seen the girl, but
Speaker 2: agrees to ask all her girls if they recognize her.
Speaker 2: And she's unloading boxes and boxes of dental dams, and
Speaker 2: she goes, they're flying off the shelves, and I just like,
Speaker 2: are johns paying to go down on women? Like I
Speaker 2: just like, I just don't understand. I don't I don't
Speaker 2: under I don't believe this. I don't believe that all
Speaker 2: of these johns are just obsessed with dental damn work,
Speaker 2: Like I don't know. I know that is very observant
Speaker 2: and funny. I did not pick up on that anyway.
Speaker 2: Why couldn't have been condoms or birth control or something,
Speaker 2: But like, the dental damn of it all takes me
Speaker 2: out of the realistic nature of what what I assume
Speaker 2: most sex work is about, which is n I don't
Speaker 2: think the johns are like and now it's my turn,
Speaker 2: you know, like, bring the dental damn out. Yeah, I
Speaker 2: just but Sister Peg, you know more than I do.
Speaker 2: They do ask her about the image of the necklace.
Speaker 2: She knows more than me. It is not Mother Mary,
Speaker 2: it is another saint. It's based on a painting and
Speaker 2: it's the Crescent Moon patron saint from Columbia. And she
Speaker 2: knows a place in the Bronx with a giant population
Speaker 2: of Colombians who attend mass. So maybe, you know, maybe
Speaker 2: it's someone that goes to that church. So the main
Speaker 2: guy there, they go rush to talk to him because
Speaker 2: Sister Peg has a connect with him and he actually
Speaker 2: hasn't seen Olivia in two to three months.
Speaker 3: Olivia the victim. Why they name her Olivia? Yeah? Do
Speaker 3: they not know?
Speaker 2: We have a recap podcast, like what is going on here? So,
Speaker 2: but she did come to the church for about two years,
Speaker 2: but was very secretive and he begged her to come
Speaker 2: to confession, but she said after her work was done,
Speaker 2: but didn't say what kind of work, but he got
Speaker 2: the feeling that she was rich. She donated all of
Speaker 2: her furniture once and it was picked up in a
Speaker 2: giant shipping container. So then they're like, wait, wait, wait, wait,
Speaker 2: do you know where the storage tell us all about
Speaker 2: the storage. So they rush off to a shipping place,
Speaker 2: a storage facility that Karen knows much about storage facilities,
Speaker 2: and off Benson and Stabler go to Queen's and this
Speaker 2: lady paid for three years in advance money bags.
Speaker 3: They open it up and there's a ton of stuff.
Speaker 2: So they start rifling through all the stuff and they
Speaker 2: find nineteen ninety nine taxes and photos, but they're all
Speaker 2: filed under a different last name and social Stabler in
Speaker 2: a box label two thousand and one, finds a.
Speaker 3: Badge she was a cop.
Speaker 1: Dunt dun and boom and walks some suit boys and
Speaker 1: Stabler calls them rats, and they're the guys who've been.
Speaker 2: Tailing them, and they are DEA. One is really hot
Speaker 2: and one is less hot. They agree to a sit down.
Speaker 2: The DEA guys walk into Craigan's office and He's like,
Speaker 2: what the fuck, why are you tailing my detectives?
Speaker 3: And they're like and.
Speaker 2: They are being reasonable, like we just needed to make
Speaker 2: sure you weren't the bad guys, like we just had
Speaker 2: to make sure everything was good, and they were. The
Speaker 2: DEA was actually notified when Olivia's Prince went into the system.
Speaker 2: But they didn't realize that she was dead, and the
Speaker 2: hot man does look down and sad at the news
Speaker 2: of the death of their coworker. We don't know yet,
Speaker 2: nobody knows why she was killed, but the tongue was
Speaker 2: cut out, so obviously there's more to it. Craigan is like, boys,
Speaker 2: we need some answers. What was she doing? They say
Speaker 2: that her case intersected with theirs, and the NYPD loaned
Speaker 2: her to us, and Craigan gets pissed, like an NYPD
Speaker 2: officer got raped and killed on your watch. And they say,
Speaker 2: clearly we didn't want that either. But this is a
Speaker 2: two year operation that's cost hundreds of thousands of dollars,
Speaker 2: and there are two more operatives left in the field,
Speaker 2: so you know, and they were introduced by the victim.
Speaker 2: So if it comes out that she's a cop, everyone
Speaker 2: is fucked. But Benson goes, yeah, but we can't do nothing.
Speaker 2: This case was all over the papers, and Craigan says, fine, okay,
Speaker 2: we can playball.
Speaker 3: What we can do is we can investigate the murder
Speaker 3: of a.
Speaker 2: Hooker dating a drug dealer, and nobody needs to hear
Speaker 2: about any undercover job or dea like deal deal. Yes,
Speaker 2: we all want that, and they're like and not a
Speaker 2: word to your ADA, and it's like okay, okay, Like
Speaker 2: I just don't get why these dorks don't realize that
Speaker 2: they're all on the same side, Like I don't Benson
Speaker 2: and Stabler and Craigan aren't trying to protect.
Speaker 3: These bad guys, you know.
Speaker 2: But then the DEA says they're not going to help
Speaker 2: with anything, and they're just like good luck out there,
Speaker 2: and it's like okay, thanks, Like don't what what what
Speaker 2: is this?
Speaker 1: It's just it's so weird how all these different agencies
Speaker 1: are always like fighting against each other, and it's like,
Speaker 1: why can't you all work together?
Speaker 2: I don't, you know, because they all want the credit.
Speaker 2: So Craigan rounds up the main crew, Ice, Benson, Stabler,
Speaker 2: and Munch. Anything happens in that room stays in the room.
Speaker 2: They're going in their own separate room, and they know
Speaker 2: they have to keep the super secret for the safety.
Speaker 3: Of everyone, so they start working.
Speaker 2: But Ice is superne nervous because he knows all about
Speaker 2: the Columbian drug dealers from his days in our so.
Speaker 3: He's like, are we sure? Are we sure? Guys?
Speaker 2: But we get a run down on Olivia and she
Speaker 2: went to Hudson. You an alum, so pretty thrilling. She's
Speaker 2: used to being sexually assaulted.
Speaker 3: I'm sure how you get in.
Speaker 2: They sent Ice to talk to an old pal from narcotics.
Speaker 2: They meet at a cemetery and the guy has flowers
Speaker 2: in hand and is like okay, deep throat vibes, and
Speaker 2: Ice is like, any better ideas and the guy goes, yeah,
Speaker 2: stay away from me, stay away from his case, like
Speaker 2: drop it.
Speaker 3: But he does give some information.
Speaker 2: He says the name of the main like the major players,
Speaker 2: Caesar Villaes, and he supplies ten percent of cocaine that
Speaker 2: comes into the US, and he has a lot of
Speaker 2: cousins that help him do things in New York and
Speaker 2: he's actually in Colombia, but the US is trying to
Speaker 2: extradite his ass right now for killing a judge and
Speaker 2: an informant. So he's a big time criminal. And I
Speaker 2: wonder if this was like a random cemetery that they
Speaker 2: went and put flowers on a random plot, or maybe
Speaker 2: they do have a mutual friend that has died and
Speaker 2: been buried at the cemetery. So I was just curious
Speaker 2: about that. But then Finn's Frind also gives him his informant.
Speaker 2: It's like, you can go talk to this informants of
Speaker 2: mine and he can help. So he's giving him scoop,
Speaker 2: just like Bust his ass for possession. He'll talk and
Speaker 2: then give you stuff. So but this is a clue,
Speaker 2: I think. So basically for the informant, he gives the
Speaker 2: advice just like Bust. The informant's ask on possession and
Speaker 2: he'll talk, so that's fine, and then he says this,
Speaker 2: He goes these people will take down a commercial airliner
Speaker 2: to take out one person. There are no rules. So
Speaker 2: I feel like this is a foreshadow a warning everything,
Speaker 2: like the there are no morals here.
Speaker 3: I doesn't care. Wait, do you watch the Miami Housewives?
Speaker 3: I don't.
Speaker 1: I mean I watched a little bit when it was
Speaker 1: first on, so I kind of know who, like Maris
Speaker 1: saul Is or whatever, but I don't really watch.
Speaker 3: So I don't either.
Speaker 2: But while I was staying with our friend Julia New York,
Speaker 2: it was on and we just been watched some episodes
Speaker 2: and there is so one of the wives is married
Speaker 2: to Martina Narrativalova. I can't even say her last name,
Speaker 2: and she's I feel like she's one of mine from
Speaker 2: the block but cannot even say her last name. But
Speaker 2: so her wife used to be married to a giant,
Speaker 2: huge Russian mob type guy who had their child murdered.
Speaker 3: He like in.
Speaker 1: Plantina, Navratilova's wife was married to a Russian guy who
Speaker 1: had their kid murdered.
Speaker 2: Yeah, he like brought a special opsin nanny who shook
Speaker 2: the baby to death. Why he didn't want to have
Speaker 2: a baby or like to disconnect and she had married
Speaker 2: someone else or it was revenge, Like I have no idea,
Speaker 2: but she has like a murdered child from her husband
Speaker 2: who is in the mob, so in.
Speaker 3: Front of even get out alive Jesus.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and she talks about there's like a lot the
Speaker 2: Miami Housewives are very open and cool about a lot
Speaker 2: of their lives.
Speaker 1: People say it's great, I should watch it. I just
Speaker 1: I haven't gotten into like the peacock of it all.
Speaker 3: So yeah, it's just like scary.
Speaker 2: Mobsters are scary, is what we've learned in all of this.
Speaker 2: Or you've probably know that, but maybe you didn't know
Speaker 2: that the mob goes into the housewives and that's pretty interesting.
Speaker 1: I mean I did from Jersey a little bit because
Speaker 1: I remember like actually talking about all this, like her
Speaker 1: tongue getting cut off, Like I forgot that, Like I
Speaker 1: haven't watched a lot of mob movies, and I forgot
Speaker 1: that like when the mob kills people, like a lot
Speaker 1: of times, there's like a message like so the tongue
Speaker 1: is like you talk to keep your mouth shut or whatever.
Speaker 1: But like I remember, I was at a bar in
Speaker 1: New York once and I met this guy who like
Speaker 1: knew everything about the Manzo's on New Jersey. And you
Speaker 1: know how Caroline Manzo's husband Al or whatever, his father
Speaker 1: was like killed and was in the mob and he
Speaker 1: was killed with his hands cut off. And I was
Speaker 1: and the guy goes, you know what that means, right,
Speaker 1: And I was like I don't. He goes, it means
Speaker 1: he stole from the mob, and I was like, oh
Speaker 1: my god, Like I didn't know all that. So this
Speaker 1: is reminding me of other Housewives drama.
Speaker 2: Well, and I don't want to reveal to my about
Speaker 2: people's lives that are on our own, but we know
Speaker 2: a comedian whose father was found murdered in the Brownstone
Speaker 2: parking lot. So yes, yes, there's a lot of I guess, yeah,
Speaker 2: a lot of mob in the house and crimes.
Speaker 1: It's just interesting to me when you say that that
Speaker 1: this woman was able to a get away from this
Speaker 1: mobster and then also get married to a very high
Speaker 1: profile person and be on.
Speaker 3: A TV show.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, you're you know, and not feel like she
Speaker 1: kind of has like a target on her back. That's like,
Speaker 1: you know, maybe maybe she made a deal with him
Speaker 1: or something whatever.
Speaker 3: Who fucking knows, Maybe she's got something on him.
Speaker 2: So we're back in. So now we're at interrogation. I
Speaker 2: did not listen to the warnings at all. He went
Speaker 2: and got the informant. The informant is Felix and if
Speaker 2: you watch the wire, this is Bubbles from the wire
Speaker 2: and he's in a fake Adida's red jumpsuit.
Speaker 3: There's not three stripes, there is two.
Speaker 5: He is.
Speaker 3: Wait, what was Karen Huger's fake Fendy? Do you remember that?
Speaker 1: I don't remember that one because that was before I
Speaker 1: joined Photomac.
Speaker 2: So they're playing, you know, who has more leverage? What's
Speaker 2: going on? There's a dance and game, there's a generic
Speaker 2: soda can, and finally they show a photo of the victim, Olivia,
Speaker 2: and he calls her a cream puff because that's what
Speaker 2: Rafael calls her, and so what does that mean? And
Speaker 2: Munch is like, who is Rafael, Like, we don't know
Speaker 2: your friend group, and it's Zapata. So it's Rafael Zapata
Speaker 2: and he is a lieutenant for this for Caesar Valaise.
Speaker 2: And Olivia was banging him and she was hot, but
Speaker 2: when she got high, she got mouthy, and he doesn't
Speaker 2: like women that are mouthy. And I guess she always
Speaker 2: talked about how his dick sucked and didn't work in
Speaker 2: front of his friends, so he did smack her a lot.
Speaker 2: But it's like, honestly, you should never get hit by anyone,
Speaker 2: but you do know who you're dealing with, Like you
Speaker 2: can't talk about his like bad dick in front of
Speaker 2: his friends, like he will hit you.
Speaker 3: I don't know.
Speaker 2: It's like I'm blaming the victim. I'm sorry, I don't
Speaker 2: know what to tell you. You can't, you can't do that.
Speaker 1: Also, yeah, it's probably coke dick, like he should just
Speaker 1: stop using his own supply.
Speaker 3: I know.
Speaker 2: But if you're if someone is second command in the mob,
Speaker 2: like oh yeah, you can't. You cannot talk about his
Speaker 2: impotence like you cannot reeah.
Speaker 3: Rule of culture number for.
Speaker 2: Fifty second last culture is so style, do not talk
Speaker 2: about a drug lord's impotent dick in front of his friends,
Speaker 2: Like you will be murdered.
Speaker 3: At all, I would say, even in private.
Speaker 5: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Yeah, so we get picks, we get a group meeting.
Speaker 2: So Zappod has been arrested twice but never indicted because
Speaker 2: someone always came forward and confessed to the crimes, and
Speaker 2: Munch says, yeah, it's probably someone with family back in Columbia.
Speaker 2: So it's like do what you're told or your family
Speaker 2: gets it. And so that really sucks for people. God
Speaker 2: just don't get involved with the mob. Being poor sucks.
Speaker 2: Life is terrible. How do we go on with our world?
Speaker 2: It's like I don't, oh God. And you know what
Speaker 2: keeps replaying is the fucking Barrio episode from this season,
Speaker 2: the burning alive of a woman, Like I don't know
Speaker 2: when that's gonna leave my nightmares, Like I don't think
Speaker 2: the day has gone by since I've seen that episode
Speaker 2: where I do not think about that, like it fucked
Speaker 2: me up. So Benson says that Zapata is very rich
Speaker 2: and has a lot of businesses and oil drilling and
Speaker 2: YadA YadA, just like a lot of money laundering.
Speaker 3: So now we have to tie him to the murder.
Speaker 2: They were both on the same flight from Miami to
Speaker 2: New York, so that might be a clue. And they
Speaker 2: also went to a cafe, so let's go to the
Speaker 2: cafe and see if anyone has remembered them, because they
Speaker 2: spent four thousand dollars that day and a lot of
Speaker 2: it was at that cafe. So they head on over
Speaker 2: and they speak to front of house manager, kind of guy,
Speaker 2: suit and tie, about Zapata and he just looks straight forward,
Speaker 2: no emotion, and goes, I'm sorry, I don't know that person.
Speaker 2: And Stayler's like, well, protect you, like you know, was
Speaker 2: he with this chick? And he goes, no, he wasn't,
Speaker 2: and Benson goes, we will charge you with obstruction and
Speaker 2: he replies, then charge I have a wife and three
Speaker 2: children and I can't help you.
Speaker 3: And he walks away.
Speaker 2: And I respect this motherfucker, like, get the fuck away
Speaker 2: from me. I know what I'm dealing with, and you
Speaker 2: are not put me in jail. So they're gonna leave
Speaker 2: him alone, which is rare. Usually they bully witnesses that
Speaker 2: don't want to help, but they leave him be, which
Speaker 2: is wild, and then they're like deciding. They're like, well,
Speaker 2: we can't tell if he was paid off or scared,
Speaker 2: and it's like he looked very scared to me. Your
Speaker 2: detective senses are off, Like this man is terrified for
Speaker 2: his life. So Agent Donovan the hottie, he calls Benson
Speaker 2: and wants a meeting. Now, where's the meeting taking place?
Speaker 2: At a roof across the street. They're being watched. He's
Speaker 2: in the casual sweaterwear and he's pissed that they talk
Speaker 2: to his informant, Felix. They do a pissing contest where
Speaker 2: Stablers finally like, you know what, dude, you were supposed
Speaker 2: to protect her and you let her die, And he
Speaker 2: of course doesn't take that well, but like he's like,
Speaker 2: I didn't realize she was doing drugs and in that
Speaker 2: deep yes, I should have pulled her, but I thought
Speaker 2: she was doing what she had to do to get
Speaker 2: the job done. She wanted to nail these guys too,
Speaker 2: And he admits it was his fault and his mistake,
Speaker 2: and Benson's like, yeah, well, we don't want to take
Speaker 2: your case, but please tell us something. Help us implicate Zapata,
Speaker 2: we're flying blind here, and he goes, fine, okay, I'll
Speaker 2: help you make this right. And he says that the
Speaker 2: fiberglass Melinda found indicates that he knows where the killing
Speaker 2: took place. Cut to the precinct and it's a photo
Speaker 2: of a yacht being dropped onto a desk, and finally
Speaker 2: we get some Alex Cabot action.
Speaker 3: Thank you, I mean, and we find out about this boat.
Speaker 2: Benson refers to it as a love boat, and it
Speaker 2: is parked in Battery Park. Are there yachts in Battery Park?
Speaker 2: I didn't really go down that far downtown very often.
Speaker 3: I guess I didn't really go.
Speaker 1: I've been down there to like a playground, I guess
Speaker 1: when I babysat, but like not really to the watery part.
Speaker 3: I guess probably. I don't know.
Speaker 2: Yeah, like I've taken the Staten Island Ferry and that's
Speaker 2: pretty low downtown. But like, I don't know if I've
Speaker 2: ever seen like yachts, so.
Speaker 3: Other boats like tied up.
Speaker 1: Yeah, like I only have at the seventy ninth Street
Speaker 1: boat basin, So I don't really know where people keep
Speaker 1: their boat.
Speaker 2: We're like on the other side the west side, there's boats.
Speaker 2: But whatever I mean, if if you have a boat,
Speaker 2: let us know, we'll meet you there. Okay, we'll grab
Speaker 2: dian Neil and we will show up.
Speaker 3: We will be on your boat.
Speaker 2: That's actually a good way to get on a boat.
Speaker 2: Be like, we will bring dian Neil if you let
Speaker 2: us on your boat. So if you're in the New
Speaker 2: York Jersey tri state area and you have a boat,
Speaker 2: this is a deal that can be made.
Speaker 3: Yes, hit us.
Speaker 2: Diane doesn't know about it yet, but we are using
Speaker 2: her as leverage.
Speaker 3: Now back to this Ada.
Speaker 2: It's Cabot and she already starts making jokes about how
Speaker 2: tiny's the pot is dick is because of the size
Speaker 2: of the boat. So this guy's dick can't get a break. Now,
Speaker 2: remember they can't tell Cabot what's up. They promised the
Speaker 2: Dea that they would not tell the Ada. So they're
Speaker 2: just focusing on the murder. And they say that the
Speaker 2: glass comes from a yacht. But Alex is pushing like,
Speaker 2: how do you know? They say an informant. She goes,
Speaker 2: but how do I know it's reliable? They go, it's reliable,
Speaker 2: But yes, I need help, I need my job. This
Speaker 2: is my job on the line, and they're like, we
Speaker 2: can't tell you, and she goes, fine, I'll find a warrant. Anyways,
Speaker 2: I just why are youse guys so annoying? But Stabler goes,
Speaker 2: just trust us, trust us. And Alex, by the way,
Speaker 2: is having her full wispy bang moment and glasses. We
Speaker 2: are living, so you know, Jimmy, I go trust them.
Speaker 2: These are I was about to say they're ethical detectives,
Speaker 2: but that's not always true with one of them, well,
Speaker 2: actually with both of them.
Speaker 3: Okay.
Speaker 2: Anyways, so now bam, they are busting a party on
Speaker 2: the boat.
Speaker 3: Good music, lots of drinks.
Speaker 2: There's flutes, like I'm not flutes, the instrument like flut flutes.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's like flutes.
Speaker 2: Now that Lizzo's brought flutes to the main front.
Speaker 3: It's tough.
Speaker 2: A lot of tube tops, summer skirts, and our duo
Speaker 2: is in bulletproof vests, looking very sexual. Everyone's hands are
Speaker 2: up and Stabler yells for Zapata, who walks down in
Speaker 2: a light colored suit, windy step style, calm as hell,
Speaker 2: and he goes, I am Rafael's Zapata and Ben's I
Speaker 2: honestly didn't even have to rewatch this episode to write
Speaker 2: this line by line, like that is how much I
Speaker 2: fucking love it?
Speaker 5: Yeah?
Speaker 2: Yeah, So Benson serves him a warrant. He says, I
Speaker 2: have nothing to hide. Stabler says, are you sure about that?
Speaker 2: And Zapota responds, law enforcement always look through my shit
Speaker 2: and they never find anything. And then one of my
Speaker 2: favorite lines in the series, Stabler says, well, this time
Speaker 2: you don't know what we're looking for.
Speaker 3: That's good. I think that's good.
Speaker 2: Benson is pulling sheets off a bed and it's like,
Speaker 2: you smell bleach. It's bleach. And it's also like, you're
Speaker 2: rich enough to have a whole fucking yacht. Aren't you
Speaker 2: rich enough to get a new mattress? Like yeah, why
Speaker 2: would you clean a mattress? Like you're a fucking millionaire,
Speaker 2: maybe even billionaire, and if I'm thinking about your assets,
Speaker 2: it's like it's a blood soaked mattress, Like why would
Speaker 2: you clean it? Throw it in the throw it in
Speaker 2: the river? Yeah, like what get a new mattress? So
Speaker 2: Benson starts cutting the mattress and in terms of like
Speaker 2: what is a not avi? What's the thing when like ASMR,
Speaker 2: Like I think cutting of a mattress is asmr to me.
Speaker 3: I like this, Oh you like that? Yeah?
Speaker 2: Or maybe once one of us gets a new mattress,
Speaker 2: we should just like for fun, ripper mattresses apart with knives,
Speaker 2: like I does. I want to know what that feels
Speaker 2: like and if it's as easy as Benson makes it look.
Speaker 2: And so there is blood inside of the mattress. So
Speaker 2: they go to arrest his ass for murder and he
Speaker 2: is shook. He said, you are making a very big mistake.
Speaker 2: And Benson is like, you don't even know how many
Speaker 2: mistakes you've made.
Speaker 3: Oh God.
Speaker 2: So it's time for court, and of course he has
Speaker 2: the slimiest of attorneys, Cindy Lapper's real life husband, David
Speaker 2: Thorton aka Lionel Granger. And I'll never forget when I
Speaker 2: posted a photo of Linel and I was.
Speaker 3: Like, married to Cindy Lauper, Oh my god.
Speaker 2: And someone goes, that is not his name, and I'd
Speaker 2: be like, yeah, no, we know. I just have an
Speaker 2: SVU podcast. And then she deleted all her comments and
Speaker 2: I was like, but I I do love someone being
Speaker 2: such a favorite favorite.
Speaker 3: What is it like fervant?
Speaker 2: Such a fervent David Thornton fan to get so mad
Speaker 2: at me that I called him Lionel Granger but didn't
Speaker 2: know his character name, but like, how dare you? And
Speaker 2: I was like, you're wrong, bitch, Okay, I'm right.
Speaker 3: And it's like if you know his career so well,
Speaker 3: you know he's Lionel Granger.
Speaker 2: I know it was funny, but I love when people
Speaker 2: are aggressive. Then quickly delete. Yeah, but Petrovsky is the
Speaker 2: judge like, are you kidding me?
Speaker 3: Are you kidding me? The Stellar group in court?
Speaker 2: This is if this was a draft pick of what
Speaker 2: I needed in court, this would be all number ones here.
Speaker 2: These are all number one draft picks in terms of
Speaker 2: courtroom scenes and acting skills. So of course Cabot wants
Speaker 2: remand and Lionel is being dramatic and it's like, I'll
Speaker 2: give you his passport. He's a family man and respected
Speaker 2: business guy, and it's like, lol, we can't let him out.
Speaker 2: He has personal airstrips, like he owns private planes and
Speaker 2: airstrips all over the world.
Speaker 3: There's no way we're letting him out. And you know how,
Speaker 3: like with.
Speaker 2: Josh Pays and Nikki Stain and like like with Pip A. Cox,
Speaker 2: we found their life story, Like, we got to learn
Speaker 2: about their backstory. I need an episode with Lionel Granger,
Speaker 2: Like I want to know more about his life. I
Speaker 2: need him back on the show and I need a backstory.
Speaker 3: Well yeah, because you got to assume if he is
Speaker 3: a lawyer, for like.
Speaker 2: The car tells like, that's he doesn't need to be
Speaker 2: defending anyone else.
Speaker 3: He's getting paid a lot.
Speaker 1: We don't need to ever see him defending another rapist,
Speaker 1: do you know what I mean?
Speaker 3: Like, and there's a target on his back.
Speaker 1: For sure, if he fucks up at all, Like that's
Speaker 1: crazy to take on those people as clients.
Speaker 2: Yeah, if you're listening or casting, sweetheart, I just I
Speaker 2: think we need some Granger backstory.
Speaker 3: He goes home and the lawyer's married to Cindy Lauper. Anyway.
Speaker 2: Granger is like, stop hating on the rich just because
Speaker 2: he's rich. He's bad, he has a clean record, and
Speaker 2: Petrovsky goes, Okay, shut up, I'm so. Petrofsky sets bail
Speaker 2: at five million dollars and wants his passport gavel bang bang,
Speaker 2: and Cabot stops Granger and is like, so's the PoTA
Speaker 2: still has you on retainer. I see that explains a
Speaker 2: three thousand dollars suit. How'd you get the blood out?
Speaker 2: And he says, my wife bought me this suit. Okay,
Speaker 2: who is your wife?
Speaker 3: Again? We'd like the backstory.
Speaker 2: Who is your wife? He says, Hey, everyone deserves a defense,
Speaker 2: and Alex responds, I would believe your idealism if you
Speaker 2: weren't enjoying yourself so much. And he says, I'm just
Speaker 2: naturally a happy person. I mean, I love him, I
Speaker 2: love him so much. But he pays a dominatrix for sure.
Speaker 2: He then hands her blue papers and is trying to
Speaker 2: get the search weren't thrown out, and she goes, excuse me,
Speaker 2: and then he goes and I will enjoy this.
Speaker 3: Oh god, this is the best episode.
Speaker 2: And now they're in chambers with Petrowski and Granger is
Speaker 2: arguing that he wants to vet the informant and how
Speaker 2: do we know if it's a credible person, and he's like,
Speaker 2: just produce the informant and prove what you know that
Speaker 2: he's legit and easy psy and Cabot's like, listen, there's
Speaker 2: a Goggins case and it's the if it's like, for
Speaker 2: the safety of the informant or to keep the information flowing,
Speaker 2: we have to keep it a secret. And Line was like, yeah,
Speaker 2: but how do we even know this person exists? And
Speaker 2: Cabot goes, well, he was accurate, and then they argue
Speaker 2: about the fibers. Line is like, I mean all we
Speaker 2: got was location of homicide. What if your informant committed
Speaker 2: the murder? How about that, Alex? And that's like so
Speaker 2: fucking annoying. So Petrowsky does order a dart in hearing though,
Speaker 2: which means like this person meets the judge in secret
Speaker 2: and if she and she gets to decide if it's
Speaker 2: like a.
Speaker 3: Reliable informant or not.
Speaker 2: Alex tries to convince Bennettson and Stabler now at the precinct,
Speaker 2: like we need this guy, and they'll go, no, bitch,
Speaker 2: you're not getting him. No one is going to chambers
Speaker 2: like people can get killed, and Cabot's like, who the
Speaker 2: fuck is this? But they get through, and now they're
Speaker 2: at the DEA offices and Cabot is meeting the hottie
Speaker 2: and he's like, did anyone follow you? And she's like
Speaker 2: I don't know, and he's stressed out. He's looking at
Speaker 2: the blinds. He's like, I'm not doing shit for you.
Speaker 2: The answer is no, and Cabot makes it about her
Speaker 2: and says, if you don't go, I actually will be
Speaker 2: held in contempt and he says that's your problem. She says,
Speaker 2: I'm not going to jail for you, and he's like
Speaker 2: drop it, and she says she can't, and he's like,
Speaker 2: when shit goes down, there will be blood on your hands.
Speaker 2: And she's like, okay, can you calm down? But it's
Speaker 2: also like, can you not sense the danger this deagent
Speaker 2: is looking out the blinds, like like, I just don't
Speaker 2: understand why everyone's ignoring the severity of the threat of
Speaker 2: the Columbian drug cartel.
Speaker 3: Yeah. God.
Speaker 2: So then he goes, you really don't get this, Like
Speaker 2: you don't know anything, do you? And she and so
Speaker 2: now she runs to talk to her mentor, Fred Thompson,
Speaker 2: and he's like, so the detectives put you in this pickle, huh,
Speaker 2: And she defends her detectives and he goes, listen, I
Speaker 2: don't care, I don't need that. We just got to
Speaker 2: find a way out of this, and she's like it'll
Speaker 2: be being bad quick style, don't worry, and it's like
Speaker 2: you can't again, like everyone is pressed, even Fred Thompson.
Speaker 2: Everyone is worried, so like, why can't you just kind
Speaker 2: of get their fear a little bit? And she's like,
Speaker 2: we will make all the efforts to keep it confidential,
Speaker 2: and Petrovsky knows that too, and then Fred with a burn,
Speaker 2: is like, just because you don't see the threat, you
Speaker 2: don't think it's real, and she goes, no, I know
Speaker 2: it's real, and he goes, well, you're not acting like it, honey,
Speaker 2: and he basically is like, cut the guy a deal,
Speaker 2: just cut a deal. So now we're in a little
Speaker 2: conference room and she is offering Zapota and Granger manslaughter
Speaker 2: for eight to ten and he's like pass. And this
Speaker 2: is the calm Olympics. Everyone is trying to be as
Speaker 2: calm as possible, and Alex and Zapata have a calm
Speaker 2: back and forth exchange and he's like, this informant is
Speaker 2: going to keep his mouth shut, and she's like, you
Speaker 2: don't know who it is, how do you know when
Speaker 2: that will be? And he responds, so you say, and
Speaker 2: this is like an eye contact Olympics too. They are calm,
Speaker 2: they are staring at each other and they are true,
Speaker 2: you know, playing big dick games. So Kabithan leans in
Speaker 2: and says, and tell your client if he intimidates our informant,
Speaker 2: I will have his bail revoked and is asked thrown
Speaker 2: back to Rikers. Zapata does not like that one bit
Speaker 2: and he says, you can't threaten me, bitch and badass response,
Speaker 2: she goes, I just did. Granger is like okay, well
Speaker 2: we're out, and Zappada is not okay with what just happened.
Speaker 2: He goes, you're going to allow a woman to act
Speaker 2: like this, and Alex goes, yes, mister, Zapata also, a
Speaker 2: woman can say anything she wants about your performance in
Speaker 2: the bedroom and you don't get to kill her. He
Speaker 2: leaps up to try to attack her. The table flies
Speaker 2: around and is her only protection. Alex leaps back. Granger
Speaker 2: tries to get in the middle and is pushing the
Speaker 2: table back to keep Zapata on the other side of
Speaker 2: the table. His hair pieces slide into the front of
Speaker 2: his terrifying ways. Alex looks scared. People walk in to
Speaker 2: get him out. There is like the stress intention in
Speaker 2: the room is there. You feel it, you see it.
Speaker 2: You are stressed for everybody Lionel says, well, that was fun.
Speaker 2: Let's go Raphael and I would be scared if someone
Speaker 2: looked at me the way Zapata is looking at Alex,
Speaker 2: Like this is one scary motherfucker.
Speaker 3: Yeah, he is scary. And now we're at.
Speaker 2: A walk and talk with Alex and the detectives. See
Speaker 2: this is the thing on alease, Like you went and
Speaker 2: watched forty one Witnesses, doesn't this make you want to
Speaker 2: watch this one? Like I'm like, this is yes, yes,
Speaker 2: this is like so fucking good. And now we're at
Speaker 2: a walk and talk with Alex and the detectives and
Speaker 2: they are discussing all the options and she's like, yes,
Speaker 2: I know, it's all bad options, and we have to
Speaker 2: pick one of the bad options.
Speaker 3: I don't know what to tell you.
Speaker 2: And it's a cool overhead shot and it follows them
Speaker 2: up as they walk up the stairs in the middle
Speaker 2: of the priestinct.
Speaker 3: So it's very great directions.
Speaker 2: So of course I looked it up and it's a
Speaker 2: man named Constantine Macris. He has done twenty six episodes
Speaker 2: of SVU, ten episodes of Orange Is the New Black,
Speaker 2: and a whopping sixty three lawn order. OG's amongst other things.
Speaker 2: So he's had a very great career in television. Great job, Constantine.
Speaker 1: I think one of our actors that we interviewed mentioned
Speaker 1: him as well.
Speaker 2: Yeah, he is talented because all the scenes are very
Speaker 2: hard to direct. I feel like what they did with
Speaker 2: the boat and the fighting around the table, like he
Speaker 2: this is a skilled guy. So Alex Cabot's cell phone
Speaker 2: rings fuck X PARTA meeting is going down in chambers.
Speaker 3: Oh, you know how we love an ex party meeting.
Speaker 3: I know.
Speaker 2: I was just thinking in my head maybe the tattoo
Speaker 2: I get is ex partey, but no one's gonna know
Speaker 2: what that means.
Speaker 3: I can't just get X Parte on my arm, but
Speaker 3: we should do.
Speaker 2: Anyone who has ideas for me that are not basic,
Speaker 2: do not send me. Why don't you get a heart?
Speaker 2: That says Benson. No, that's not what I'm gay. But
Speaker 2: X Party, I think is like people in the legal
Speaker 2: profession might be like, why is why do you want that?
Speaker 2: What's going on? It's kind of like with my who's
Speaker 2: the my chip girl?
Speaker 3: Oh? Oh the uts girl? The uts Yeah.
Speaker 2: Whenever people are like, oh you're from Maryland, I go no,
Speaker 2: They're like, why do you have her, and it's like,
Speaker 2: I like uts, I don't love I like the girl
Speaker 2: I picked. I picked her off a wall. I go,
Speaker 2: oh my god, I do love her. Oh you just
Speaker 2: like the girl. But do you like the chips?
Speaker 3: The chips are good?
Speaker 2: I mean I will, I will get them because she's
Speaker 2: on it, and I love like the barbecue. She has
Speaker 2: an orange bow like I like that. They color code
Speaker 2: her outfit to the bag of chip. But people want
Speaker 2: more meaning behind it. They're like, oh, Maryland, No, not
Speaker 2: at all. I was just lived near a tattoo shop
Speaker 2: and she was cute and in New York. What's awesome
Speaker 2: is you saw the trucks all the time, so I
Speaker 2: would see her like.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, but that was like my go to bag
Speaker 1: of chips at my boudeiga.
Speaker 3: I fucking love uts so much. They're so salty and delicious,
Speaker 3: and that's good to know.
Speaker 2: Maybe I'll get you a big cheese puff thing for
Speaker 2: a birthday.
Speaker 3: Oh, a big bin.
Speaker 2: So But yeah, so I can't just get random eagle,
Speaker 2: Like what do I get? And I love Petrovsky like
Speaker 2: that seems specked up too. Maybe I do just get
Speaker 2: a Petrofsky.
Speaker 1: She'll definitely do the pod then if we send her
Speaker 1: a picture.
Speaker 2: Yeah, so she is or fishing expedition, Like do I
Speaker 2: get a fish and hook?
Speaker 3: That says fishing expedition, Like I don't.
Speaker 1: Think I get like iced tea with a shark body
Speaker 1: or something like that.
Speaker 3: What was that idea? I don't know.
Speaker 2: So she's but Alex is scared about this ex party
Speaker 2: meeting and she knows like this isn't good.
Speaker 3: This is some this isn't good.
Speaker 2: So in the meeting there's the DA and the d
Speaker 2: o J, and it's a lot of you know, whites
Speaker 2: and ties. And so the Department of Justice guy has
Speaker 2: been in four total SVU episodes in all different characters.
Speaker 2: And I think he's the guy that is Miranda Priestley's
Speaker 2: husband or no, he's the head of Vogue Publishing in
Speaker 2: Devilwar's product.
Speaker 3: Yeah, so this guy is Yep, the husband's in a
Speaker 3: differentness for you. Okay.
Speaker 2: So so the DOJ guy he hands Alex a document
Speaker 2: stating that Petrofsky is barred from subpoenaing a federal agent
Speaker 2: because it would fuck with an ongoing investigation and nothing
Speaker 2: can be done.
Speaker 3: The search is out.
Speaker 2: Nobody is happy and Petrofsky's going to take it out
Speaker 2: on mister Riley from the DOJ and says, and I
Speaker 2: never want to see this many lawyers in my chambers again.
Speaker 2: So next time, leave the dog and ponies show at home,
Speaker 2: he says, he understands. Everyone leaves, and now it's a
Speaker 2: states rights issue. And Alex and the detectives are bitching
Speaker 2: in the hallways and the hotty Dea arrives with bad,
Speaker 2: bad news.
Speaker 3: There's a threat.
Speaker 2: They're like, who gives a shit, and no, the threats
Speaker 2: against you, Cabot, and we need to protect Cabot at
Speaker 2: all costs. And so they're now in an office listening
Speaker 2: to a rape recorder. Do you think Google docs just
Speaker 2: changed it? Because I rather like she probably meant yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3: Yeah, that stays in. That stays in for sure, and
Speaker 3: they're yeah.
Speaker 2: So they're listening to a tape recorder and it's inmates
Speaker 2: and they're chatting and this only happened like six hours ago,
Speaker 2: and they confirm Cabot's address. They know where she lives,
Speaker 2: they know when she gets home, they know when she jogs,
Speaker 2: they know her mother's address.
Speaker 3: And she's like, how do they know this? And it's like, we've.
Speaker 2: Been warning you her danger girl, like everyone's been warning
Speaker 2: you all fucking night. And again he's like, have you
Speaker 2: noticed people following you or taping your shit? And Benson's like, well,
Speaker 2: obviously protective detail now armed guards, there's federal marshals on
Speaker 2: her at all times. Security is high, home, office, everywhere.
Speaker 2: But Cabot's pulling up Benson being being like, no, I
Speaker 2: want to go home, now, shut up. So the dea
Speaker 2: Hotty goes out and says, don't worry. We'll find the
Speaker 2: sky and we'll put him away. And they have chemistry. Okay,
Speaker 2: there are fireworks. I say it is, it's hot, and
Speaker 2: he's like, don't worry. If I have to, I will
Speaker 2: testify an open court and then yeah everyone. So basically
Speaker 2: he's like, you're hot. I'll jeopardize my life. I know
Speaker 2: I said I cared, but I'll die for you. And
Speaker 2: it's like, yeah, if this was a rom com, they
Speaker 2: would be making out. So and then I'm like, assuming
Speaker 2: he'd be cheating on his wife. But I don't know
Speaker 2: why I'm assuming he's married, but whatever.
Speaker 1: I think because you've watched the episode and we find
Speaker 1: out later that he is.
Speaker 2: No, I they he only says he has kids at
Speaker 2: the end, Oh that's true, right, No, because I thought
Speaker 2: the same thing, and exactly this is what happened to
Speaker 2: me in Pittsburgh. I kept going, so, you guys have kids,
Speaker 2: and one of them would be like, they're her kids. Ah,
Speaker 2: that kid kids, Like all these people with kids date,
Speaker 2: we forget everyone gets divorced or like aren't with their partners,
Speaker 2: and like, even though we're cool and we know everyone
Speaker 2: living different lives and respect it all, like, it's still
Speaker 2: like senormative in my head because I was like, yeap
Speaker 2: cheating on his wife, and then I heard it later
Speaker 2: and it was like, oh, yeah, he just has kids. Later,
Speaker 2: so well, you know, maybe he wasn't cheating and he
Speaker 2: was looking for a stepmom. And you know, we'll see
Speaker 2: it could have been Cabot, could have been. So after
Speaker 2: this like sexual moment, he goes to the car and
Speaker 2: the three Benson, Stabler, Cabot are chatting and Benson.
Speaker 3: Suggests to sleepover.
Speaker 2: Then boom, dea guy's car fully explodes fire. He's dead.
Speaker 2: Fuck right when we started to like him. Finally they realize, wow,
Speaker 2: this is serious. Yeah, finally, So there's a commercial break.
Speaker 2: Obviously a man just got car exploded, and we're back
Speaker 2: from the break in a bustling crime scene and they
Speaker 2: zoom in on Alex, cut up, stressed out face and
Speaker 2: she's wrapped in a blanket, and you know there's trauma
Speaker 2: when someone's wrapped in a blanket. So Benson is pepping
Speaker 2: her up, like you couldn't have done anything differently, and
Speaker 2: it's like, you could have, you could have, and then
Speaker 2: it's like, oh no, the da the not hot one,
Speaker 2: the best friend. He approaches Alex and he's so pissed
Speaker 2: and he's just like an exasperated how and she says,
Speaker 2: I don't know and this is not a good enough
Speaker 2: answer for him, and he goes.
Speaker 3: Are you kidding me? He had two kids? Did you
Speaker 3: know that? So that's really sad. Benson says, knock it off,
Speaker 3: and he does not knock it off. He goes, you
Speaker 3: were careless, you wouldn't listen. Well, do you get it now?
Speaker 2: And Stabler says enough and Stabler that then turns to
Speaker 2: Alex and says, we're taking you off this case.
Speaker 3: And the DEA guy is like, you have no case.
Speaker 2: It blew up with Donovan and walks away and he's
Speaker 2: obviously grieving like he's pissed. So I excuse all of
Speaker 2: his behavior, and I think Alex Cabbitt deserves being yelled at. Sorry,
Speaker 2: But like, also, if you're Dea and you're working against
Speaker 2: these guys, don't you have to have like a bomb
Speaker 2: sniffing dog check out your car every fucking time you
Speaker 2: get in it or something like that.
Speaker 3: This is their main thing. They love to blow up
Speaker 3: fucking cars.
Speaker 1: Like I would never be able to get in my
Speaker 1: car and turn the key if I was this guy.
Speaker 3: These guys.
Speaker 2: Yeah, Oh, and we know Alex's cabot though, so like
Speaker 2: we know she's not gonna step down.
Speaker 3: She fucking went to the congo, you know what I.
Speaker 2: Mean, Like like we're gonna get this guy's ass. So
Speaker 2: we're back at the precincte and it's all hands on
Speaker 2: deck figuring out how, you know, what are we going
Speaker 2: to do next? Alex says, how do they know Donovan
Speaker 2: was connected? And it's like, well, you were at his office,
Speaker 2: so what are you talking about. Munch says they have
Speaker 2: money and power, that's all you really need to do anything.
Speaker 2: And of course Alex says, she's not backing down and
Speaker 2: has protection and it's chill, and Benson's like, Alex, you
Speaker 2: don't have to die for this case. She goes, No,
Speaker 2: these men live off of other people's fear, and I'm
Speaker 2: sick of it.
Speaker 3: And I noticed this. She had pearl study ear rings. Cute.
Speaker 2: Intimidation is always there, whether it's me or the next
Speaker 2: person in the office. And they agree with her, and
Speaker 2: they go, Okay, let's get to work and let's drag
Speaker 2: everyone from the boat in because someone knows something. And
Speaker 2: Craigan asks to speak to her privately, and in the
Speaker 2: office he's like, I know you wouldn't let this die.
Speaker 2: So he gives her his old gun and got her
Speaker 2: a permit, like rushed for the gun. So then Craigan
Speaker 2: gets a call and he tells Cabot, the boss is
Speaker 2: looking for you. So we go back to Fred's and
Speaker 2: he's drinking a brown liquor. He starts going down memory
Speaker 2: lane about cops being killed daily by Peblo at Pablo
Speaker 2: at Peblo, by Pablo Escobar, and how a bunch of
Speaker 2: former judges, prosecutors, and law enforcement people walking around every
Speaker 2: day with armed guards to this day.
Speaker 3: Is this true?
Speaker 2: We'll find out from Kara, But to imagine, like a
Speaker 2: job you did thirty years ago and you still need
Speaker 2: protection every single day. And how much money and witness
Speaker 2: protection goes into like this drug trade that the American
Speaker 2: government benefits from.
Speaker 3: I'm betting. I don't God, I hate everything.
Speaker 2: Legalize drugs, Legalize all drugs, all of them.
Speaker 3: Like what are we talking about?
Speaker 2: So yeah, so, like the rest of their lives is
Speaker 2: truly on edge forever because they stood up to the
Speaker 2: cartel who only cares about keeping their business afloat. And
Speaker 2: she says, that's why we got to fight them, and
Speaker 2: he's like, girl, we've been fighting them since before you
Speaker 2: were born.
Speaker 3: And we're dropping the case.
Speaker 2: The Feds have a better case against him than we
Speaker 2: would ever have, so give it to them. There's too
Speaker 2: many people who have already died. And she's sad about this,
Speaker 2: but they understand. So they're back at trial and the
Speaker 2: case is dropped. So Granger and Zapata seem very very proud,
Speaker 2: and Zapada slowly walks out of the courtroom as the
Speaker 2: US Marshals come in to arrest him and he is
Speaker 2: being charged with the murder of a federal agent. He
Speaker 2: gives dirty looks to Alex while he's slowly being walked
Speaker 2: away in cuffs. The FBI connected Zapata to the car bomb,
Speaker 2: who then gave up Caesar Vales, which doesn't seem realistic.
Speaker 2: I can't imagine Zapata giving up Vales, Like I what
Speaker 2: you guys work together on.
Speaker 3: How to kill every rat? Ever?
Speaker 2: Like why would you give why would you give up
Speaker 2: the main boss? This seems shocking to me, but I
Speaker 2: guess he does think he has so many assets that
Speaker 2: he could be able to get away.
Speaker 3: But like I, this this is where the show. I don't, uh,
Speaker 3: you're dead if you do that, Like you're dead? You
Speaker 3: do you would give up somebody underneath you?
Speaker 2: Or something like why wouldn't you just stay in prison
Speaker 2: and get idos?
Speaker 3: I don't understand at all.
Speaker 2: So anyways, but if this all goes down the way
Speaker 2: they hope, they can arrest Valais and begin extradition processes.
Speaker 2: And so Alex asks what does Zapata get for his
Speaker 2: troubles reduce sentence in a new identity?
Speaker 3: Finn guesses.
Speaker 2: Munch and Finn leave and then Craigan, on her threesome,
Speaker 2: is left with a pretty full picture of beer.
Speaker 3: So they're at a bar.
Speaker 2: We had a good run Stabler says, and like we
Speaker 2: had to get screwed sometime. It happens, and Benson adds
Speaker 2: Valez can do more damage to Zapota now than the
Speaker 2: justice system ever could. So even Benson's like, don't worry,
Speaker 2: Valz is gonna kill this motherfucker. And you know, Alex
Speaker 2: is getting all existential and she's just like it never
Speaker 2: seems like enough.
Speaker 3: She's sick of what happens with.
Speaker 2: The victims, and even when we win, we don't and
Speaker 2: they all leave the bar and she's like, I'll walk
Speaker 2: and it's like you cannot walk?
Speaker 3: Does the trauma leave this fast?
Speaker 2: And then oh no, a black suv comes and shoots
Speaker 2: cabin bang bang. She's knocked the fuck out out cold.
Speaker 2: Stabler tries to run after the suv. It does not work.
Speaker 2: Benson's like, okay, it's okay, Alex, You'll be okay. And
Speaker 2: blood is rushing out of Alex's cabot. It is not
Speaker 2: looking good. Nobody called a bus though, so that's not
Speaker 2: by the book. Now it's October first, and we're at
Speaker 2: the squad room and they're all so sad.
Speaker 3: Munch is not talking strange.
Speaker 2: Everyone's on the verge of tears, finn Head is in
Speaker 2: his hands, Stabler is staring off and then it pans
Speaker 2: down to what he's looking at and it's the New
Speaker 2: York Ledger and it says no leads on slain Ada,
Speaker 2: and it's a giant pick of cabot. Cragan walks out
Speaker 2: of his office and is just talking straight business about
Speaker 2: other cases and bitching about other Adas sucking at their jobs.
Speaker 2: Craigan says the potter was found dead in a cell,
Speaker 2: but also, yeah, dumb. So there goes Vellez's extradition and
Speaker 2: all of this, like what the fuck? I guess the
Speaker 2: pot is dead and that is justice in some way,
Speaker 2: but this is tough stuff. Then Craigan tells Benson and
Speaker 2: Stabler that DA agent Hannah, the not hot one, wants
Speaker 2: to see them tonight, something about closing out the case.
Speaker 2: So they meet in a marsh like rocky secret area
Speaker 2: and he's like, sorry, it's the only way to do this,
Speaker 2: and Benson's like, do what and the DEA guy responds,
Speaker 2: she wouldn't take no for an answer.
Speaker 3: A real pain in the ass this one.
Speaker 2: And out of the black suv is cabin she's alive
Speaker 2: in a ponytail.
Speaker 3: Oh, it's so good.
Speaker 2: She says, I'm sorry about all of this, and Benson
Speaker 2: starts crying, Oh my god, she's such a good actress.
Speaker 3: And she mutters, your funeral is tomorrow.
Speaker 2: And the DEA guy says yes, and you're both expected
Speaker 2: to be there. And she is going to win and
Speaker 2: to witness protection until Veales is extradited or dealt with
Speaker 2: in some other way, and they don't know for how long,
Speaker 2: and they're just like on the move. She has a
Speaker 2: sling on her arm, and so it was a real
Speaker 2: blood and it was a real shooting that she had survived,
Speaker 2: because I think all along I did think this was
Speaker 2: a fake shooting, and like, how did they plan this
Speaker 2: fake shooting? But I think she was shot. They just
Speaker 2: didn't kill her, and so she could have been dead.
Speaker 2: So that's like, thank god she's alive, but what she's whatever.
Speaker 2: They would have shot her more times, but they saved her.
Speaker 2: She did bleed. She has a sling, and now it
Speaker 2: closes on Benson and Stabler's faces, like as they'd taken
Speaker 2: all the information, and all the SUVs move with Cabot
Speaker 2: going into witness protection.
Speaker 1: Damn, and she goes to fucking Wisconsin. Well, thank you, Lisa.
Speaker 1: That was a recap of a classic, and we will
Speaker 1: be right back with the true crime of it all.
Speaker 2: All right, Cara, I'm so excited. I actually don't know
Speaker 2: anything about Like I know they're bad, but this I've
Speaker 2: seen the movie blow Babously. I gave my first blow
Speaker 2: job during that movie, so on the nose, so on
Speaker 2: the and then his sister walked in on us. But
Speaker 2: I stay away from this genre of filmmaking. A scarface
Speaker 2: maybe I've seen, but like, I stay away from this genre.
Speaker 3: So I'm really thank you for doing the research. I
Speaker 3: really didn't want to. So yeah, no, that's fine. Yeah,
Speaker 3: I definitely am the same.
Speaker 1: Like this episode is, of course, if you haven't figured
Speaker 1: it out, is based on Pablo Escobar and the Colombian cartels,
Speaker 1: and I've, like I said, I've obviously heard of Escobar.
Speaker 1: Who hasn't, but I don't watch narcos, Like I don't
Speaker 1: know the whole story. So I was happy to actually
Speaker 1: kind of dig into this and learn a little bit
Speaker 1: more about him because.
Speaker 3: I didn't even know if he was still alive or not.
Speaker 1: But he was a Colombian drug kingpin known as the
Speaker 1: King of Cocaine, who was the founder and leader of
Speaker 1: the Median Cartel. So Median is a city in Colombia
Speaker 1: and also the subject of a movie that Vinnie Chase
Speaker 1: tries to make and then eventually stars in an Entourage
Speaker 1: that bombs. So if you've heard that before and you're
Speaker 1: like a person that watched Entourage, that's that. So Escobar
Speaker 1: was raised in Mediine, one of seven kids, and started
Speaker 1: his criminal career as a teen. It's conflicting, like some
Speaker 1: people said he used to steal gravestones and then like
Speaker 1: sand down the names and resell them. Others said he
Speaker 1: was selling faked high school diplomas. I think both are
Speaker 1: pretty funny starting gigs for a criminal. He also sold cigarettes,
Speaker 1: fake lottery tickets, et cetera. And he gained some attention
Speaker 1: in quote unquote the Marlborough Wars, which I guess he
Speaker 1: played a high profile role in the control of Columbia's
Speaker 1: smuggled cigarette market. So this was probably future practice for
Speaker 1: his illegal drug enterprises.
Speaker 3: And he eventually became.
Speaker 1: Like a bodyguard and a thief, like he'd kidnap people
Speaker 1: for ransom, and then eventually he got into the drug
Speaker 1: trade and he did become I think still today the
Speaker 1: wealthiest criminal of all time, Like he amassed thirty billion
Speaker 1: dollars and in his time, which is equivalent to sixty
Speaker 1: four billion dollars today, So pretty lucrative work for him.
Speaker 1: So he's described as a drug lord and a narco terrorist,
Speaker 1: And when I looked up narco terrorist, it does have
Speaker 1: its own narco terrorism has its own Wikipedia page. So
Speaker 1: originally that was defined as narcotics traffickers who try to
Speaker 1: influence the policies of a government or a society through
Speaker 1: violence and intimidation, and to hinder the enforcement of anti
Speaker 1: drug laws by the systematic threat or use of such violence.
Speaker 1: But apparently the term is increasingly being used for terrorist
Speaker 1: organizations that engage in like drug traffic activity to fund
Speaker 1: their operations and gain recruits and expertise. So like if
Speaker 1: al Qaeda or you know, any of these organizations run drugs,
Speaker 1: that might not necessarily be their like their main thing,
Speaker 1: because they have other you know what I mean, Like
Speaker 1: they have other pursuits, but drugs is just like a
Speaker 1: a revenue stream for them. But then I was reading
Speaker 1: this article in pro Publica, like very in depth as
Speaker 1: they always are, that talks about how narco terrorism term
Speaker 1: is kind of tricky nowadays because sometimes the DEA uses
Speaker 1: it to like stage threats, like they'll be like, oh,
Speaker 1: this is narco terrorism, and it's like, no, these guys
Speaker 1: were just trying to make some money and like they're
Speaker 1: Muslim or something like that. You know, it's like it's
Speaker 1: not necessarily it's more of the War on drugs shit.
Speaker 1: It's like they're using it to cover up war on
Speaker 1: drug stuff, so they can always call things narco terrorism
Speaker 1: when it's really kind of just narcotics trafficking in a
Speaker 1: lot of ways. So who knows. You can get more
Speaker 1: into that. The pro Public article is linked in our
Speaker 1: show notes. So back to Pablo. The New York Times
Speaker 1: said that Escobar rose from the Colombian slums to become
Speaker 1: this huge drug lord, like this rags to richest story,
Speaker 1: But everywhere else I read that he was kind of
Speaker 1: middle class, like his dad was a farmer, his mom
Speaker 1: was a teacher, like they weren't. He didn't live like
Speaker 1: on the streets, but like he was always wanted more,
Speaker 1: Like he wanted more than what his parents and had.
Speaker 1: So he started his business snuggling cocaine via airplane into
Speaker 1: the US around nineteen seventy five, and then his cartel
Speaker 1: was founded in nineteen seventy six, so he was around
Speaker 1: twenty six or twenty seven, and that same year is
Speaker 1: when he married his wife, a fifteen year old Hello
Speaker 1: SVU named Maria Victoria Hanau, and they eventually had a
Speaker 1: son and a daughter, Juan Pablo and Manuela and Wan.
Speaker 1: Pablo now goes by Sebastian Merrokein and is a motivational speaker,
Speaker 1: which I do love. And so, by the way, I
Speaker 1: do have a friend who married a guy who was
Speaker 1: Colombian whose name was Pablo Escobar when he was born,
Speaker 1: and then later his name was changed so he has
Speaker 1: a different name now. But I just think that's very funny.
Speaker 1: And their wedding was in Colombia and I loved it.
Speaker 3: It was beautiful.
Speaker 1: So in May of nineteen seventy six, Escobar and several
Speaker 1: of his men were arrested and found in possession of
Speaker 1: eighteen kilos of white paste that's about thirty nine pounds,
Speaker 1: and that's a coca paste that was usually purchased in Bolivia,
Speaker 1: Peru or Ecuador and then smuggled into the US. Escobar
Speaker 1: attempted to bribe the judges who were building a case,
Speaker 1: but it didn't work, and then after months of legal
Speaker 1: back and forth, Escobar just got the two arresting officers
Speaker 1: murdered and the case was later dropped. So he's found
Speaker 1: out pretty quickly that this was like an effective way
Speaker 1: of getting business Done's just like killing everyone that has
Speaker 1: to do with prosecuting you, and so yeah, that's sort
Speaker 1: of the start of his pattern of dealing with authorities
Speaker 1: through bribery or murder. So around this time, you know,
Speaker 1: late seventies, early eighties, cocaine demand in the US is skyrocketing,
Speaker 1: like everyone wants it, so he starts organizing more smuggling shipments,
Speaker 1: roots distribution networks in South Florida, California, Puerto Rico, other
Speaker 1: parts of the US. And then eventually him and I
Speaker 1: guess a co founder of the cartel named Carlos later
Speaker 1: worked together to develop this new like shipment point for
Speaker 1: themselves in the Bahamas. And it's an island called Norman's
Speaker 1: k around two hundred and twenty miles southeast of Florida.
Speaker 1: Sometimes I think cy is supposed to be pronounced key,
Speaker 1: but I don't know. And so they had this little
Speaker 1: island in the Bahamas, that had an airstrip, a harbor,
Speaker 1: a hotel, houses boats, aircrafts, and they had a huge
Speaker 1: refrigerated warehouse used to store the cocaine. So pretty big
Speaker 1: operation going on. So from seventy eight to eighty two,
Speaker 1: Norman's k was the central smuggling route for the Mediine cartel,
Speaker 1: and eventually he was able to purchase seven point seven
Speaker 1: square miles of land in in Tiokia, which is where
Speaker 1: Mediine is. It's like the it seems like it's the
Speaker 1: county or something where Mediine is in Colombia, and that
Speaker 1: is where he built Hacienda Napolis, which is basically his
Speaker 1: playboy mansion. It's this huge luxury house with a sculpture
Speaker 1: garden that had like huge life sized dinosaurs in it,
Speaker 1: a private bull ring, an airport, swimming pools, lush lawns,
Speaker 1: man made lakes, and a private zoo that had exotic birds, horses, elephants, rhinos,
Speaker 1: and hippos. And maybe you guys have noticed a story
Speaker 1: from the end of last year about Pablo Escobar's cocaine hippos.
Speaker 1: This is definitely straight out of the Bananas Podcast. Essentially,
Speaker 1: what happened was the hippos were illegally brought in by Escobar.
Speaker 1: Then after he died sorry spoiler alert, he does die,
Speaker 1: the hippos are just left in the zoo to like
Speaker 1: fend for themselves, and they make their way down to
Speaker 1: the Magdalena River Basin, which is a huge waterway that
Speaker 1: cuts through the western part of Columbia, and then they
Speaker 1: just start spreading in population. They just keep reading and
Speaker 1: as the population grows, Columbia claims, oh, this is threatening
Speaker 1: the biodiversity of the area and could lead to dangerous
Speaker 1: encounters with human beings because hippos are actually they seem
Speaker 1: cute and like they're just hungry for pellets in a game,
Speaker 1: but actually they are very, very aggressive, and so Columbia
Speaker 1: was like, well, we want to either kill these hippos
Speaker 1: or sterilize them. So of course, the United States jumps
Speaker 1: in and is like, no, ay, sue for the hippos
Speaker 1: to obtain personhood, and they it is granted.
Speaker 3: So in the United States, these hippos are considered people.
Speaker 1: And what I was reading in the article is like, yeah,
Speaker 1: but Columbia doesn't have to listen to us, Like so
Speaker 1: it's like a gesture that, oh, these animals are people.
Speaker 1: Like in our country. We think they're people, Please don't
Speaker 1: kill them, and Colombia's like, yeah, but it's our country,
Speaker 1: so we're.
Speaker 3: Gonna do whatever we want.
Speaker 1: So I believe that they began that they began to
Speaker 1: start sterilizing the hippos. Hopefully no hippos were killed, but anyway,
Speaker 1: they're called the cocaine hippos. I think people think it's
Speaker 1: like hippos ripping lines of cocaine and flying around town.
Speaker 5: No.
Speaker 2: I definitely thought it was a bunch of hippos that
Speaker 2: were on coke.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah, They're just called the cocain hippos because
Speaker 1: I think that's how they were paid for and like
Speaker 1: they're Escobar's hippos.
Speaker 3: So anyway, hopefully.
Speaker 1: They are just you know, barren and living in Colombia
Speaker 1: having happy lives. But Hacienda Napolis is where Escobar sort
Speaker 1: of stunted on his fortune.
Speaker 3: It's where he showed off all his wealth.
Speaker 1: He had huge classic car collection and bikes, a go kart, racetrack,
Speaker 1: et cetera. But his pride and joy was this replica
Speaker 1: of a Piper Pa eighteen supercub airplane, which was the
Speaker 1: small plane that transported his very first shipment of cocaine
Speaker 1: to the US. So he has a replica of Baby's
Speaker 1: first airplane up there, Baby's.
Speaker 2: First sentimental guy. Yeah, yeah, for sure. So today Wildly.
Speaker 1: Hacienda Napolis is a family friendly theme park with water
Speaker 1: attractions and a wildlife sanctuary, a butterfly farm, museums, so
Speaker 1: go check it out. And many people definitely were brutally
Speaker 1: murdered there. So sounds fun. But back to his crimes.
Speaker 1: It is alleged that Escobar back to the nineteen eighty
Speaker 1: five storming of the Colombian Supreme Court by left wing
Speaker 1: gorillas from the nineteenth of April Movement also known as
Speaker 1: M nineteen. This siege resulted in the murders of half
Speaker 1: the judges on the court and hostages were also taken
Speaker 1: for negotiation. These judges were basically trying to set up
Speaker 1: extradition policies with the US that Colombian you know, drug
Speaker 1: dealers could be extradited to the US for punishment, and
Speaker 1: obviously Escobar noky that idea, So let's just kill a
Speaker 1: bunch of the judges. So a bunch of these guys
Speaker 1: from M nineteen, this M nineteen group were paid to
Speaker 1: break into the palace burn all the papers and files
Speaker 1: involving Los extra Ditables, which is a group of cocaine
Speaker 1: smugglers who were under threat of being extradited to the US.
Speaker 1: So they have like a list of them, and he's like,
Speaker 1: just go in there and burn the list. And obviously, duh,
Speaker 1: Escobar's on the list. So they killed all these judges
Speaker 1: and it's like this huge like event in you know,
Speaker 1: Columbia's history. So at the height of the cartel's operation,
Speaker 1: the cartel was bringing in seventy million dollars a day,
Speaker 1: which today would be one fifty a million a day,
Speaker 1: so crazy, and fifteen tons of coke were being smuggled daily.
Speaker 3: It's just not even that good of a drug like that.
Speaker 5: I know.
Speaker 2: It's shocking to me, Like all other drugs are so fun.
Speaker 2: I don't know, but like coke just sucks to me.
Speaker 2: I've never had fun on coke. I agree, coming I will,
Speaker 2: so I think us. I think it affects people differently
Speaker 2: because I have friends that are like, I'm having the
Speaker 2: best time when they're on coke, and it just does
Speaker 2: not do it for me. I'm like, okay, now at
Speaker 2: seven am and I'm awake and I'm listening to somebody
Speaker 2: randomly go on and on about like Quentin Tarantino.
Speaker 3: This is not fun for me, you know.
Speaker 2: Like and it's just this drip and it doesn't taste.
Speaker 2: It's just yeah, I've never understood.
Speaker 3: And it's like, so how many tons.
Speaker 1: Fifteen tons a day? Like the numbers are wild. But
Speaker 1: his brother Roberto was his accountant and later wrote a
Speaker 1: book chronicling his time in the cartel, and there's some
Speaker 1: fun info in the book, like they also spent one
Speaker 1: thousand dollars a week on rubber bands just to wrap
Speaker 1: the stacks of cash, Like.
Speaker 3: Can you imagine like that much money on rubber bands.
Speaker 1: And then they also had to write off a percentage
Speaker 1: of the cash, like in their books, because the cash
Speaker 1: would be get eaten by rats, Like rats would eat
Speaker 1: some of the money and they'd be like, well, okay,
Speaker 1: ten percent just gone to rat food. So anyway, as
Speaker 1: Escobar's fortune and fame grew, you know, he really wanted
Speaker 1: to be seen as a leader, and so he set
Speaker 1: himself he tried to set himself up as like a
Speaker 1: Robin Hood figure where he was like I'm rags to riches,
Speaker 1: I'm here to help the poor and a lot of
Speaker 1: people bought into it. A lot of the poor people
Speaker 1: of Columbia were like, yeah, he's doing good things. Like
Speaker 1: he you know, he spent money to expand social programs.
Speaker 1: He was very good at pr so he would like
Speaker 1: build football fields and sports courts and like sponsor kids
Speaker 1: teams and stuff. And then he would distribute money throughout
Speaker 1: like housing projects and apparently other civic engagements where he
Speaker 1: would help, you know, the downtrodden. So civilians often would
Speaker 1: help him, like people loved him. Civilians would serve as
Speaker 1: lookouts and hide info from authorities just to help him.
Speaker 1: And it's wild because the violence was kind of destroyed Columbia.
Speaker 3: I mean, the cartels in their fight with the amongst each.
Speaker 1: Other too, because there's another cartel called the Cali Cartel,
Speaker 1: and the cartels are always struggling for who's going to
Speaker 1: be the top dog. It resulted in a lot of
Speaker 1: violence and Colombia quickly becoming the world's murder capital. In
Speaker 1: ninety one, they had more than twenty five thousand violent
Speaker 1: deaths in the country, and in ninety two it was
Speaker 1: over twenty seven thousand. So the increased murder rate was
Speaker 1: also fueled by Escobar just giving money to his hitmen
Speaker 1: to as rewards for killing police officers. So he killed
Speaker 1: apparently he was responsible for the deaths of over one
Speaker 1: hundred I'm sorry, over six hundred police officers. That he
Speaker 1: was just like giving bonuses out to his guys if
Speaker 1: they killed cops.
Speaker 2: Yeah, because also, like I do like that he was
Speaker 2: helping the poor and building all these things. But what
Speaker 2: goes through my head is like, then does he lorded
Speaker 2: over people to do weird favors or it's like, well,
Speaker 2: you took this money and now you have to do
Speaker 2: this for me, right, murder your whole family? Like I
Speaker 2: still don't trust him fully, all right, but maybe he
Speaker 2: is a hero and I just don't know about it. Well.
Speaker 1: But it's also like remember the episode we just did,
Speaker 1: oh well, we just did this on one of our
Speaker 1: live shows in wet where there's like colon now is
Speaker 1: like buying all these gymnasiums, And it's like, yeah, because
Speaker 1: you don't want people to pay attention to the fact
Speaker 1: that you're selling soda. That's like turning kids obese, you know,
Speaker 1: It's like it's pr I don't know if he's doing
Speaker 1: it out of the goodness of his heart, you know,
Speaker 1: maybe he's doing it, so he has like a lot
Speaker 1: of civilian lookouts. Who knows, but you know, this man
Speaker 1: is personally responsible for killing thousands of people, including police, judges,
Speaker 1: et cetera.
Speaker 3: So he's a very very scary person.
Speaker 1: And to pull right from the episode where they say
Speaker 1: that line, these guys, would you know, bomb a jetliner
Speaker 1: just to get rid of one person, One of Escobar's
Speaker 1: main hit men did exactly that. One of his top
Speaker 1: assassins blew up a commercial airliner because he thought two
Speaker 1: informants were on board. It was twenty nine year old
Speaker 1: Don Dani Munos Mosquera, and he was one of the
Speaker 1: top assassins for the cartel. He reputedly killed fifty police officers, judges,
Speaker 1: and other officials in his career, which launched when he
Speaker 1: was twelve years old. He blew up an Avianca jetliner
Speaker 1: over Bogata in nineteen eighty nine. All one hundred and
Speaker 1: seven people on board died, including two US citizens, and
Speaker 1: this is considered one of the worst acts of drug
Speaker 1: trade terrorism. So then later a man named Luis Carlos Galan,
Speaker 1: who was running for president on a pro extradition and
Speaker 1: anti cartel platform, like this is a guy who's running
Speaker 1: for president of Colombia and who's like, I'm going to
Speaker 1: get you, like we will no longer be overrun by cartel.
Speaker 1: He was way ahead in the polls, like probably was
Speaker 1: gonna win. Was assassinated, obviously, and after that happened, the
Speaker 1: government really wanted to go for Escobar in his cartel,
Speaker 1: so he was supposed to surrender and cease all criminal
Speaker 1: activity in exchange for a reduced sentence and preferential treatment
Speaker 1: during his captivity. So he did surrender in nineteen ninety
Speaker 1: one Escobar, and he was combined to his own luxurious
Speaker 1: private prison called La Cote Dral, which was featured a
Speaker 1: football field, a giant dog house I don't know, a bar,
Speaker 1: a jacuzzi, and a waterfall. I don't even understand how
Speaker 1: this is considered a jail but or a prison, but
Speaker 1: that's where he was, where he was housed, and of
Speaker 1: course he fully kept running his business from jail. So
Speaker 1: when the government found out and tried to about like
Speaker 1: the fact that he's living it up even even more
Speaker 1: than like Martha Stewart or some of our white collar criminals,
Speaker 1: the government tries to move him and of course, he
Speaker 1: finds out in advance because he's got everybody on the inside,
Speaker 1: and he escapes jail and then he spends the rest
Speaker 1: of his life avoiding capture, and that turns out to
Speaker 1: be sixteen months. So eventually the United States Joint Special
Speaker 1: Operations Command, which is members of Seal Team six, Delta Force,
Speaker 1: and then Centri Spike. It's like all these people joined
Speaker 1: the manhunt for Escobar. They trained and advised this special
Speaker 1: Columbian task force that was called Search Block that was
Speaker 1: created to find Escobar. And so they were all trained
Speaker 1: to try to find Escobar. And as all this is
Speaker 1: going on, and Escobar's enemies are ganging together and they
Speaker 1: form a group called Los Pepes, and that group is
Speaker 1: financed by his rivals and former associates, including other cartels,
Speaker 1: and those Pepees, fueled by vengeance, goes on a spree
Speaker 1: in which three hundred of Escobar's associates, his lawyer, relatives,
Speaker 1: of his hit men in his cartel. All these people
Speaker 1: are murdered and a bunch of the Median cartel's property
Speaker 1: was destroyed. So you know, things are not looking good
Speaker 1: for him in the early nineties, and then on December second,
Speaker 1: nineteen ninety three, sixteen months after he escaped from his
Speaker 1: fancy prison, Escobar died in a shootout and his actual
Speaker 1: fatal wound was a gunshot through the ear, and his
Speaker 1: brothers maintained that he took his own life and that
Speaker 1: he did not die because no one has taken credit
Speaker 1: for firing the shot that killed him, probably for fear
Speaker 1: of retaliation, but also maybe they just I don't know who.
Speaker 1: Maybe they don't know, but these brothers are like, well,
Speaker 1: no one took credit, so we think he killed himself
Speaker 1: because that's more honorable in their eyes than he got
Speaker 1: killed by the authorities.
Speaker 3: I don't know.
Speaker 1: So after his death, the cocaine market was taken over
Speaker 1: by a rival cartel called the Cali Cartel until the
Speaker 1: nineties mid nineties, when its leaders were either killed or
Speaker 1: captured by the Colombian government. And a lot of people
Speaker 1: do remember the Robinhood thing about Escobar, especially poor people.
Speaker 1: He was deeply mourned by people, and over twenty five
Speaker 1: thousand people went to his funeral.
Speaker 3: That's pretty huge.
Speaker 1: So a lot of these people think that he was
Speaker 1: a saint and they prayed to him for receiving divine help. Meanwhile,
Speaker 1: his wife and his two kids fled Columbia after no
Speaker 1: one would grant them asylum, and after they went to Mozambique,
Speaker 1: then Brazil, they finally settled in Argentina. And then this
Speaker 1: like reminded me of like a reality show that I'd
Speaker 1: love to see. His widow became a successful real estate
Speaker 1: entrepreneur until one of her business associates discovered who she was,
Speaker 1: and so she booked.
Speaker 3: It out of there with all of her money.
Speaker 1: But then eventually she was imprisoned for eighteen months while
Speaker 1: her finances were investigated in Argentina, but they couldn't link
Speaker 1: to anything illegal, so she was let go and she
Speaker 1: continues to live in Buenos Aires with her son and daughter.
Speaker 1: Her son and daughter have also both denounced their father's activities,
Speaker 1: and you know, like the son changed his name the wife.
Speaker 1: It's very interesting because this actually just came to me
Speaker 1: as we were doing the recap, Like you know how
Speaker 1: he says, you're gonna let a woman talk to me
Speaker 1: that way, Like obviously misogyny is rampant in the cartels
Speaker 1: and in this gangster culture. But this wife, Maria of Escobar,
Speaker 1: like she married him when she was fifteen. He had
Speaker 1: countless affairs. He was constantly cheating, She stood by his side,
Speaker 1: she spoke to him with nothing but respect. She was
Speaker 1: like constantly like, and she was considered the model for
Speaker 1: all the cartel.
Speaker 3: Wives, like all of them.
Speaker 1: It was like, look at Maria, Look how she never
Speaker 1: talks back, Look at how she stands by him, blah
Speaker 1: blah blah. So just an interesting you know, look at
Speaker 1: how women are treated in these situations, cause I think
Speaker 1: sometimes we see in these TV shows, you know, the
Speaker 1: women can say, oh, your dick doesn't work, or the
Speaker 1: women can like get away with saying more shit.
Speaker 3: But it seems like her way to stay alive was
Speaker 3: to just.
Speaker 1: Never ever talk back and to be a dutiful wife.
Speaker 1: And so I did read that she stayed in Buenos
Speaker 1: Aires with her son and daughter, and that in June
Speaker 1: of twenty eighteen, a federal judge and Argentina accused her
Speaker 1: and her son, Sebastian marro Ken of money laundering with
Speaker 1: Colombian drug traffickers, which would be wild if they were
Speaker 1: like openly denouncing Pablo's shit, but then they were back
Speaker 1: in bed. But I mean, maybe that's also how they
Speaker 1: needed to survive, because they don't have a skill set
Speaker 1: after living in a cartel life forever. But I looked everywhere.
Speaker 1: This was widely reported in twenty eighteen. There is like
Speaker 1: no update, Like I have to assume that this was
Speaker 1: just dropped because there's no update. I was checking the
Speaker 1: internet everywhere for like what happened with this case with
Speaker 1: Maria and Sebastian, and like nothing is there. So you know,
Speaker 1: I found some articles about how Hollywood is obsessed with
Speaker 1: Pablo Escobar and everything about cartel's and his brother, actually Roberto,
Speaker 1: the one who was the accountant for the family. He
Speaker 1: did contact Netflix to try to become a consultant on
Speaker 1: the show Narcos. I don't think Netflix took him up
Speaker 1: on it. He did feel like season one had a
Speaker 1: lot of mistakes in it. He's also partially blind and
Speaker 1: deaf from a letter bomb exploding in his face, so
Speaker 1: he's lived a life and yeah, so obviously, Pablo Escobar
Speaker 1: died in nineteen ninety three, but many, many movies and
Speaker 1: TV shows have been based on him.
Speaker 3: His influence lives on.
Speaker 1: I think we all remember a few years ago when
Speaker 1: El Chapo was the rage.
Speaker 3: He was a Mexican cocaine kingpin and he.
Speaker 1: Was obsessed with Escobar, like that was his you know,
Speaker 1: Michael Jordans. So you know, people with sort of shark
Speaker 1: no souls can really get behind everything Pablo Escobar was doing.
Speaker 1: But the brutality and the violence, it's like, it's like,
Speaker 1: it's weird that Cabot none of that would have registered
Speaker 1: for her because clearly, like the Valez character is supposed
Speaker 1: to be askebar, you know, and it's like, I don't know,
Speaker 1: you should be scared a little bit more scared because
Speaker 1: they are fully blowing up planes. But I think now,
Speaker 1: I did go to Colombia in twenty and fifteen, and
Speaker 1: it was one of the best trips I've ever been on.
Speaker 1: I remember when I lived in New York, Columbia was
Speaker 1: doing a lot of advertising on the subway. I think
Speaker 1: they're really trying to get away from their image as
Speaker 1: like a cocaine cartel riddled place, because like my friend's
Speaker 1: husband is from Bogata. They go all the time. They
Speaker 1: say it's so beautiful. I went to Cartajna. The Housewives
Speaker 1: went to Cartajna. I mean, you know, it's beautiful. So
Speaker 1: go to Columbia. It's okay now, and definitely go to
Speaker 1: that definitely go to that water park that used to
Speaker 1: be his fucking like murder mansion and tell me how
Speaker 1: it is. Gotta be some listeners that have gone, please
Speaker 1: tag us in your vacation photos of you Yeah, been there, Yeah,
Speaker 1: because it's like when you go to Instagram, like or
Speaker 1: you look it up, there's there's like pictures of it.
Speaker 1: You know people there. So anyway, that's all she wrote
Speaker 1: on Pablo Escobar.
Speaker 2: Thank you for that. Loved that rundown, loved being informed.
Speaker 2: And now we have an iconic guest. You guys are
Speaker 2: gonna lose it.
Speaker 3: Oh my gosh.
Speaker 1: I've been dreaming of the day that I get to
Speaker 1: do this introduction of a guest, and here it is.
Speaker 1: You guys, you know this actor very intimately. You have
Speaker 1: seen her recently on Ava DuVernay's superhero drama Naomi on
Speaker 1: the CW, or maybe you've seen her playing Ivanka Trump
Speaker 1: on a president show documentary, The Fall of Donald Trump.
Speaker 1: But you definitely know her in your heart as one
Speaker 1: of the best adas of all time. Alex Cabot, guys,
Speaker 1: don't I don't know what else to say. We're about
Speaker 1: to talk to Stephanie March.
Speaker 2: You've been on our wish list before we even started.
Speaker 2: Iconic character, iconic role, and one of the best episodes ever.
Speaker 2: But I guess we'll just start with how what's the
Speaker 2: origin story of nailing this part and getting cast on SVO?
Speaker 5: You know, I don't I don't know you ever think
Speaker 5: we nail the part. That's a good question. The other day,
Speaker 5: my friend who her name is Becca Perkins. She's my
Speaker 5: business partner, and she happens to be I met her
Speaker 5: on the set. She's a head makeup artist at FEW
Speaker 5: and now she's running organized crime. But she sent me
Speaker 5: a picture of a mask that a lot of people
Speaker 5: were wearing that she had seen around town, and it
Speaker 5: was kind of iconic Law and Order characters and it
Speaker 5: was you know, Benson and Stabler and Long and Munch
Speaker 5: and then and then Cabot was on there, and I thought,
Speaker 5: oh my god, I made the mask. You know, I'm
Speaker 5: one of the six on the mask. That must be good.
Speaker 5: That's that's I guess that's good. You know. I got
Speaker 5: this part like truly the old fashioned way. I auditioned
Speaker 5: off the street, you know, with the you know, with
Speaker 5: my agent, fresh in New York, and I auditioned in
Speaker 5: front of Dick Wolf, and he said, yep, let's move
Speaker 5: ahead to the studio. And then I don't know how
Speaker 5: well received I was at the studio end, but Dick
Speaker 5: was definitely my champion and he definitely had the power
Speaker 5: to hire me, and he did, and that's how I
Speaker 5: got the job.
Speaker 3: Wow.
Speaker 2: Then you and I see just joining in season two?
Speaker 2: Were you guys buddies as like the newbies? And it
Speaker 2: was so early in the show's history. Did you guys
Speaker 2: know it was going to be this iconic and that
Speaker 2: we'd all be obsessed for years to come?
Speaker 3: I did not.
Speaker 5: You know, at the time, television was very different, of course,
Speaker 5: And the standard contract that you signed was seven years.
Speaker 5: And I told my agent, I said, I cannot find you. Remember,
Speaker 5: I'm fresh out of the theater. I'm fresh out of college.
Speaker 5: You know, I'm going to first I'm going to be
Speaker 5: Lady with Best and I'm going to do this show.
Speaker 5: Then I'm going to do something out and start a
Speaker 5: theater company, and then I'm going to start on this movie.
Speaker 5: And I have all these plans. And I said, I
Speaker 5: can't stay on a television show for seven years. And
Speaker 5: my agent said, there's no show that runs for seven years.
Speaker 5: Don't worry so that that turned out to be the
Speaker 5: one case. But that's not true. And I remember well
Speaker 5: saying to me about iced tea. He said, he is
Speaker 5: the best negotiator we have ever negotiated with, tougher and
Speaker 5: smarter than any agent. Wow, that's cool. He's so great.
Speaker 3: Wow, that's great info.
Speaker 5: Oh, he's so he should have a class. He should
Speaker 5: have a seminar for every senior in college called real
Speaker 5: fucking life, Like that's what it should be called.
Speaker 3: Well, he does on Twitter a little bit.
Speaker 2: You know, he has this ice cold facts.
Speaker 5: I remember him saying in the makeup row I was,
Speaker 5: I was in there and he just was one of
Speaker 5: the times I had come back, and he said, man,
Speaker 5: I don't know what's happened to you, but if you're
Speaker 5: fifty and you haven't gotten over it, now it's your problem.
Speaker 5: I'm like, Okay, I guess that's it. I guess fifty
Speaker 5: is the age which you can't complain about your childhood anymore.
Speaker 5: It's on you.
Speaker 3: But I remembered it, agreed, be smart.
Speaker 2: Wow, And you mentioned makeup and head of makeup, and
Speaker 2: we are constantly like obsessed with the wardrobe and the
Speaker 2: makeup what was your relationship like with the crew, the writer's, makeup, hair,
Speaker 2: any kind of like behind the scenes people, because I'm
Speaker 2: sure you work so closely with a lot of them.
Speaker 5: I loved the crew and I loved the cast. I
Speaker 5: will say we were constantly secretly with hair and makeup
Speaker 5: at OZ with production, because you're always trying to be
Speaker 5: just slightly more glamorous or slightly more fun. And you know,
Speaker 5: I watched the episode Lost last night. I haven't seen it,
Speaker 5: you guys. I cannot watch myself on TV. I haven't
Speaker 5: seen it in probably, I don't know, fifteen years. So
Speaker 5: I kind of gassed when I was watching it. And
Speaker 5: part of me gassed because of the tragic Bangs situation,
Speaker 5: and the other part of me gased because I'm wearing
Speaker 5: like a lavender top, you know, for part of it,
Speaker 5: and that was such a thing. No color. She was
Speaker 5: stressed for work. I always had to wear pantyhose. I
Speaker 5: wasn't allowed to wear pants until well into season three.
Speaker 5: I mean, it was so conservative. And you know, I
Speaker 5: was twenty four to twenty five years old and I
Speaker 5: had the U York and I wanted to I wanted
Speaker 5: to be all fashionable, right, and they just they just
Speaker 5: they were like, Nope, you're an Ada working working for
Speaker 5: the man in New York City. That's not how it's
Speaker 5: going to go. So we tried red lipstick once and
Speaker 5: so I basically completely color corrected it and told us
Speaker 5: never to do it again.
Speaker 3: Yeah, we were wondering about the bangs.
Speaker 1: I was like, I wonder if the bangs was a
Speaker 1: Stephanie call or a hair and makeup call.
Speaker 5: Oh that was that was a Stephanie call. I can't
Speaker 5: put that on hair and makeup. That was one hundred
Speaker 5: percent me. And I looked at it and I just think,
Speaker 5: you know, it's not that bangs are bad, because it
Speaker 5: can be great. But those were past.
Speaker 3: That's very fast.
Speaker 5: And when I met Dan, my husband, he said, yeah,
Speaker 5: I saw some pictures of you and I are you
Speaker 5: going to get banks again? Why you asked? You said
Speaker 5: you look great? Now. I's like, is that your way
Speaker 5: of saying you hate them? But yes, that's my way
Speaker 5: of saying I hate them.
Speaker 3: Hey, that kind of honesty is worth its.
Speaker 5: Way presented correctly.
Speaker 2: Yes, Well, I'm so glad you watched that episode because
Speaker 2: it's incredible the scenes with you, Lionel Granger and Petrovsky.
Speaker 2: The three of you in chambers and talking is like
Speaker 2: a masterclass in acting, and with you and Granger and Zapata, like,
Speaker 2: those scenes.
Speaker 3: Are so good.
Speaker 2: Do you remember shooting those and being like, oh, we're amazing.
Speaker 2: I don't know, and and we love and Petrovsky so
Speaker 2: much exactly.
Speaker 5: First of all, David and Joanna are two of the
Speaker 5: best actors. And I say that because you never see
Speaker 5: them acting, you always think they are that person. And
Speaker 5: she's Judge Petrovsky, no question, I needs Lionel Granger, like,
Speaker 5: no questions. Also, they're two of the most pleasant people
Speaker 5: to work with. They're just very delightful, smart, interesting, intelligent people.
Speaker 5: And I remember David saying to me and we were just,
Speaker 5: you know, waiting for them to set up between scenes,
Speaker 5: and I looked at it him and I said, oh,
Speaker 5: you know, you mentioned earlier and going to show your
Speaker 5: character is married, but you're not wearing a wedding ring.
Speaker 5: Did they forget? And he said, no, I think Lionel
Speaker 5: Granger is that kind of guy. He just is the
Speaker 5: kind of guy who's married but doesn't wear a ring. Yeah,
Speaker 5: he shouldn't have it. And I thought, oh my god,
Speaker 5: that's exactly right. But it's that attention to detail that
Speaker 5: makes it so so fun to play.
Speaker 2: With, right, Yeah, and do you remember being scared? I
Speaker 2: mean Zapota jumping over that table. I was, I mean,
Speaker 2: you just I was like, such a scary scene.
Speaker 5: It's the nicest guy, the nicest actors the world. That
Speaker 5: man moves fast, and so it's great. You don't have
Speaker 5: to do very many takes, right, you know, if you
Speaker 5: get it, if you get it right on the first time,
Speaker 5: it's hard to be surprised over and over. So rather fortunately,
Speaker 5: I think I think we got it.
Speaker 1: Yeah. I was wondering if maybe there was like prov involved,
Speaker 1: because you truly look so terrified when he comes at
Speaker 1: you in that scene that I was like, I wonder
Speaker 1: if he kind of jumped the line and just went
Speaker 1: at her or something, because I don't know, you just
Speaker 1: really look genuinely terrified.
Speaker 3: I don't see the acting there.
Speaker 5: I would say we choreographed it only because you sort
Speaker 5: of have to with moving furniture because you don't want
Speaker 5: to hit you know, we can't. You want to hit
Speaker 5: the crew, you want to hit an actor. You don't
Speaker 5: you know, you don't want to run the take by
Speaker 5: bumping into a light. But it was also really late
Speaker 5: at night, if I recall, and we were all tired,
Speaker 5: and I just you know, those hours were really long,
Speaker 5: and I think he just surprised the hell out of me. Yeah,
Speaker 5: we just got lucky. Also, I'm just a genius.
Speaker 2: Yes, yeah, well outside of David, And you got to
Speaker 2: work with so many defense attorneys, judges. Was there anyone
Speaker 2: on the call sheet you'd see and you'd be like, Oh,
Speaker 2: today is going to be extra fun, or I can't
Speaker 2: wait to show down with them in court?
Speaker 3: We're yeah, any faves.
Speaker 5: So the late Ned Eisenberg, who I adore, I Ned
Speaker 5: so talented and such a nice man. I almost I can't.
Speaker 5: I just can't bear the thought of the fact that
Speaker 5: he is no longer with us, and he was such
Speaker 5: a joy to work with. You know, there's a long
Speaker 5: day because they would shoot the courtroom, they would shoot
Speaker 5: the court room stuff altogether because for location reasons, so
Speaker 5: you would do nothing for a couple of days, and
Speaker 5: then you'd spend you know, forty eight out of seventy
Speaker 5: two hours on that set. And that you have to
Speaker 5: really want to be around the people who are there.
Speaker 5: And he just made every day so fun. He just
Speaker 5: made every day like acting camps. Judith light As another
Speaker 5: one percent of the time. Awesometimes I loved you if
Speaker 5: she's just so cool. Yeah, and oh my gosh, and
Speaker 5: I got really lucky with those kiod But you know,
Speaker 5: everybody's great.
Speaker 1: Yeah, like Ned Eisenberg, Like you know, he I know
Speaker 1: him mostly from the show, and he, you know, is
Speaker 1: kind of a jerk character, but there's still something so
Speaker 1: endearing about him. You know, you really like you like him, right,
Speaker 1: even though yeah, he's so great.
Speaker 5: Yeah, he was the clever guy. He's really smart, he's
Speaker 5: really funny. And he and b D ended up. Of
Speaker 5: course b D. Unfortunately b D and I did not.
Speaker 5: We weren't in the courtroom a lot together. B D
Speaker 5: and I are good friends, and having a day with
Speaker 5: him was really great. And he was in a play
Speaker 5: with Ned a few years ago, and I went to
Speaker 5: see it and I was like, oh, it's all my
Speaker 5: favorite things all at once. It's just not while and work,
Speaker 5: but there it is.
Speaker 1: Yeah, we did have b D on the podcast and
Speaker 1: he did mention that you guys are good friends, so
Speaker 1: we were hoping that he would, you know, give you
Speaker 1: a little nudge to do our podcast.
Speaker 3: You know.
Speaker 5: Unfortunately, were you able to see b D because b
Speaker 5: D has actually not aged at all. We had dinner
Speaker 5: two weeks ago with b D and Dan and his
Speaker 5: husband Micro and Becca, actually the afore mentioned Rebecca Perkins,
Speaker 5: and it was I mean, Becca and I could not
Speaker 5: stop staring at BDV, like, what is he doing, Chris?
Speaker 5: It looks shame, it's crazy.
Speaker 3: We told him that too.
Speaker 1: We were like, there's just no way that you're sixty,
Speaker 1: and he was like, I mean, this is it. I
Speaker 1: just could not believe it. He looks like fully better
Speaker 1: Benjamin Buttoning. But he also mentioned that you were the
Speaker 1: He mentioned to us that you were like a big
Speaker 1: restaurant person and that you're the person to talk to
Speaker 1: for like rexs of the new hot places in New York.
Speaker 5: I mean, I used to be I'm used to be
Speaker 5: My game used to be sharper, especially in a pre
Speaker 5: COVID world. But one of my best friends does hospitality
Speaker 5: pr and so I get to go to all of
Speaker 5: the great places with her. Just fun.
Speaker 3: Oh that's really nice. That's really fun.
Speaker 5: And you can still buy an actor with a free drink.
Speaker 2: I'll be in New York next week. Is there a
Speaker 2: hot news spot I should check out?
Speaker 5: Actually, there are two, and I'm proud to say that
Speaker 5: I had an eight. I am a tiny, a tiny
Speaker 5: bit of an investor. I have a small piece of
Speaker 5: the action. And both of them, and both of them
Speaker 5: are quite popular right now. One is a very chic
Speaker 5: Indian restaurant called Sona, which is on twentieth Street, and
Speaker 5: it's just kind of just written up in Vogue and
Speaker 5: we got a great review in the New York Times.
Speaker 5: And the food is really good and the scene is
Speaker 5: really great, and it's just or just and the cocktails
Speaker 5: are great. And then the other is Temple Bar. And
Speaker 5: I don't know if you remember Temple Bar from before,
Speaker 5: but it's basically where everybody went in the eighties and
Speaker 5: nineties to have an affair or quit their job and
Speaker 5: get a new job. It's on Lafayette, it's on Lafayette
Speaker 5: Street between it's just north of Houston. It's one block
Speaker 5: north on Lafayette, and it's Temple Bar. And we have
Speaker 5: very thoughtfully not we haven't redone it so much as
Speaker 5: restored kept the logo. We've kept the lighting, and we've
Speaker 5: kept the sexy phone booths and so the vibe is
Speaker 5: very similar what it was and when we first experienced it.
Speaker 5: So I cannot recommend either of those masters.
Speaker 3: I wrote them down. I can't wait. But if I
Speaker 3: may say, so love it.
Speaker 5: Well.
Speaker 3: We were talking about we were talking.
Speaker 1: About your relationships with other cast members, and it seems
Speaker 1: like you always have sort of a sweet mentor mentee
Speaker 1: relationship with Fred Thompson as well, the former senator s
Speaker 1: last district attorney.
Speaker 5: You know, somebody I really did really make me. Weap
Speaker 5: me last night watching that scene with him. I loved
Speaker 5: working for us. Yeah, he was such a gentleman and
Speaker 5: and just so just so professional. You know, we, for
Speaker 5: whatever reason, we always ended up shooting late at night.
Speaker 5: You know, I would wait most of the day and
Speaker 5: then I would be called at three o'clock in the afternoon,
Speaker 5: and then I'd work n till two o'clock in the morning.
Speaker 5: And for whatever reason, Fred and I always ended up
Speaker 5: in these scenes late at night. It's not just lit
Speaker 5: that way, it often kind of was that way. And
Speaker 5: here he is, and he just was he always news line.
Speaker 5: He was always the absolute gentleman, holding a door open,
Speaker 5: a lovely conversation. He's a breaking senator. I mean was
Speaker 5: a busy person. He had a lot going on, and
Speaker 5: I'd look at what's happening and politics today, and we
Speaker 5: don't have to get too political, but you know, Fred
Speaker 5: was a Republican senator from tense. He couldn't have been
Speaker 5: a more decent and more wonderful person. And I loved
Speaker 5: working with him, and he was great at his job.
Speaker 2: Josh, he was gonna oh wow, So there's that well
Speaker 2: out outside of the main he worked with so many
Speaker 2: people that were on the cast and recurring. Were there
Speaker 2: any days where you saw the guest star or who
Speaker 2: you were going to grill on the stand and you
Speaker 2: were like, holy shit, this is I can't believe this
Speaker 2: is happening.
Speaker 5: Well, okay, so there wasn't a so for a hot second.
Speaker 5: Diane Weese with Fred Thompson had Fred Thompson's role as
Speaker 5: the da and I worked with Dian Weas in a
Speaker 5: couple of scenes, and she is probably one of my
Speaker 5: favorite actresses of all time, like of all time, And
Speaker 5: I almost couldn't work with her because I was so
Speaker 5: nervous to be working with legend and she really didn't
Speaker 5: care that much about the show. She could have been nicer,
Speaker 5: but she was she really didn't want to be there,
Speaker 5: and she was just kind of out of there. She
Speaker 5: was a little formula for me. But she was very nice,
Speaker 5: and of course she was very good. And then we
Speaker 5: had Lena Olwen on one of our episodes. I don't
Speaker 5: know if you remember it or watched it, but I
Speaker 5: will say, for all of the insanely good looking people
Speaker 5: that had come across the Law and Order stage, no
Speaker 5: one props me to Oland for like natural gorgeousness. I
Speaker 5: mean all of us were falling. I mean, can we
Speaker 5: get some dream? Oh look, oh that's so beautiful on
Speaker 5: you here? Sit here. I mean we couldn't. It's like
Speaker 5: we all collectively, from cameraman to Grip to me, had
Speaker 5: a crush on her, even Chris, who is so professional,
Speaker 5: but Chris, Chris has you have to keep you know,
Speaker 5: most actors have to keep kind of a sort of
Speaker 5: a personal distance just so you can stay a character.
Speaker 5: You know, you can't just be chatting all time because
Speaker 5: you can't concentrate. And even Chris was just kind of like,
Speaker 5: how are you doing to dating? I mean, we just
Speaker 5: we're just obsessed with her.
Speaker 3: Oh my god, I love it. That's awesome.
Speaker 5: Wea.
Speaker 3: I was going to ask you when you were rewatching.
Speaker 1: The episode last night, because Okay, you're talking about some
Speaker 1: beautiful women, but what about when you have to go
Speaker 1: ahead to head with some of these hot guys. Because
Speaker 1: last night, I was real when we were rewatching it,
Speaker 1: I was sensing a lot of chemistry between you and
Speaker 1: the dea guy who got blown before he.
Speaker 5: Got blown kaboom.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 1: I felt like maybe a date was going to happen
Speaker 1: with you. No, but then it turned out he was
Speaker 1: married with kids. But you know, I really felt like
Speaker 1: there was a chemistry with you too.
Speaker 5: Well. You know, it's so funny. You know, Peter Herman
Speaker 5: was brought on. They were toying with the idea of
Speaker 5: making him permanently Cabot's boyfriend. How hilarious is that?
Speaker 3: Oh my god?
Speaker 5: Yeah, I Peter Herman appere on the show in the
Speaker 5: context of being a possible love interest for Cabots, and
Speaker 5: then they decided that they just didn't really want to
Speaker 5: do that with the show, and what was working regular
Speaker 5: Law and Order was the fact that the characters didn't
Speaker 5: really have personal lives and they just didn't want to
Speaker 5: go down that road. And then you know Peter ends
Speaker 5: up marying Mushka.
Speaker 1: Yeah, you were there for that whole romance blossoming huh.
Speaker 5: Yes, no, I watched it. I mean I met him first.
Speaker 2: And then was it obvious like when they started flirting,
Speaker 2: where was everyone like, oh, we know what's going to
Speaker 2: go down.
Speaker 5: Well, Marcia is just so funny and she's so charming,
Speaker 5: So there's rarely a person around her who isn't delighted
Speaker 5: by her company a ton of fun and Peter is
Speaker 5: so they're very complimentary characters. He's incredibly thoughtful, he's incredibly kind,
Speaker 5: he's incredibly decent. He also speaks three languages. He went
Speaker 5: to Yale, he was teaching for America's first volunteer. He
Speaker 5: literally is number one in their register. Yeah, he has
Speaker 5: a lot to recommend him in terms of what kind
Speaker 5: of character he is, and they just it's funny because
Speaker 5: they really did just kind of hit it off from
Speaker 5: the beginning. She was in one of the scenes. I
Speaker 5: can't remember why she was there. I think Benson comes
Speaker 5: to tell Cab it might not have even made it
Speaker 5: into an episode, but I think we're on some kind
Speaker 5: of date or dinner. I can't remember what it is,
Speaker 5: but but Benson shows up and so obviously we're all
Speaker 5: shooting the scene together, and I'm like, what what's going
Speaker 5: on these two? And then you know, cut to three
Speaker 5: kids later. Yeah, there are our house in the hands
Speaker 5: and having each other over. Yeah.
Speaker 2: Wait, do you know that there's a lot of fan
Speaker 2: thick of Cabot and Benson ending up together and you
Speaker 2: guys being each other as romantic love affairs?
Speaker 5: Not, okay, do I know that? But the last time
Speaker 5: I was on the show, Rurushka and I just to
Speaker 5: mess with everybody when we were saying goodbye in a
Speaker 5: scene shot on a city corner downtown by city Hall
Speaker 5: at night, we kissed on camera just to mess with
Speaker 5: the editors. Think. She's like, how are you doing. I
Speaker 5: was like, I'll see you again, you know how it
Speaker 5: is with I mean, it was kind of like one
Speaker 5: of those you will anybody win, justice win, And then
Speaker 5: we just kissed each other spontaneously and then we could
Speaker 5: not stop laughing.
Speaker 3: So that exists somewhere. So that is somewhere on the
Speaker 3: editing room floor.
Speaker 5: So that they tore that up, but nothing with them.
Speaker 5: We could not stop laughing.
Speaker 1: That's so funny, because yeah, there's all you know, there's
Speaker 1: been this decades of Benson Stabler, which we're not really
Speaker 1: a part of. We're not really on that team. And
Speaker 1: then there's a lot of people that are like forget them.
Speaker 1: Then it's got to be Benson in Cabot and I
Speaker 1: don't know, you guys would make a pretty hot couple.
Speaker 1: And now that this kiss is out there, who knows.
Speaker 5: It's out there somewhere? It's so fabulous. Come on, where
Speaker 5: each other's half birthdays? I think that matters somehow astologically.
Speaker 5: I also think what was really important about the show
Speaker 5: is none of us were anybody's girlfriend, and you know
Speaker 5: that's quite my earlier. It was a story about people
Speaker 5: in their jobs, not guys with jobs and the girls
Speaker 5: they date. And I think it was really meaningful for
Speaker 5: people to see two women have a relationship with one
Speaker 5: another rooted in something other than just isn't it fun
Speaker 5: to be here at this party? You know, it was
Speaker 5: rooted in a really deep passion for something and an
Speaker 5: overlapping passion. And I think that probably that friendship and
Speaker 5: that professional integrity. It just seemed two women together on
Speaker 5: camera who can have a strong scene and it's not
Speaker 5: about some dude. I think that's important, and that happened
Speaker 5: very often when we first started.
Speaker 2: Well, and you also like aren't scared of any of
Speaker 2: the dudes, like you were yelling at Stabler to do
Speaker 2: that his fucking.
Speaker 3: Job a lot, like you talk to Craigan.
Speaker 2: I mean, it's also like two really badass characters all
Speaker 2: the way through.
Speaker 3: Such what.
Speaker 5: I watched it last night, So since the episode, of course,
Speaker 5: I've watched every episode of Narcos and Narcos Mexico. So
Speaker 5: I look at Cabot yesterday and I'm thinking, what are
Speaker 5: you doing? Those guys are going to kill you. I mean,
Speaker 5: now I understand back off, I know, I know now.
Speaker 1: That we've seen so much cartel, Like you know, there's
Speaker 1: been a lot of cartel content, Like since that episode
Speaker 1: came out, you're like, oh my god, leave it alone.
Speaker 5: Yeah, but thinking she can go on that guy's yacht,
Speaker 5: I mean, what the hell?
Speaker 2: Yeah, the Dea guys were right, They're like they'll take
Speaker 2: down a whole plane of people, like please stop, and yeah,
Speaker 2: like absolutely not.
Speaker 5: Yeah, it's so positive they're going to exercise him.
Speaker 3: But even I mean that passion.
Speaker 2: Then later when you leave with the episode, witness to
Speaker 2: like go to the congo that character like, she's just
Speaker 2: passionate about her work and justice, and that's what makes
Speaker 2: her so good at her job.
Speaker 5: Well, what I liked is that when she started, and
Speaker 5: this is what I really tried, you know, you always
Speaker 5: trying to come up with things to keep it interesting
Speaker 5: or rich or give that person a full in her life.
Speaker 5: You know, wherever they're whenever they appear on camera, in theory,
Speaker 5: they've just come from somewhere, right, they exist somewhere in
Speaker 5: my imagination. So at first, when Alex started, I decided
Speaker 5: that she was a person who was very, very committed
Speaker 5: to doing her job by the letter of the law.
Speaker 5: Because this is kind of you know, for a lot
Speaker 5: of attorneys, you work for a few years in this
Speaker 5: capacity and then you get hired by some hot ship firm, Right,
Speaker 5: that's what you do. You kind of prove yourself in
Speaker 5: a real litigating capacity, and you know, it's kind of
Speaker 5: like doing theater, so then you can star in a movie. Right.
Speaker 5: So I decided that she really wanted to be a
Speaker 5: kind of a hard ass at work because her goal
Speaker 5: was to get this massive corporate job and really make
Speaker 5: it and then over time, exposure to the people she
Speaker 5: worked with and the cases she was working on, and
Speaker 5: her commitment to her profession changed her personally. And it's
Speaker 5: been so fun to be able to grow that over
Speaker 5: a legitimate period of time. It's played out as I hoped.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, no, it definitely did.
Speaker 1: It definitely comes across that ambition she had at the
Speaker 1: beginning and then transferring it to sort of the greater good.
Speaker 1: But when you left, because this episode lost is when
Speaker 1: you leave for a minute, were you leaving to go
Speaker 1: do other projects? Were you like, did you feel like
Speaker 1: you had to step away so.
Speaker 3: You could come back?
Speaker 1: And did you always know you were going to come
Speaker 1: back at all, like cause you come in and out
Speaker 1: of the series like two or three times.
Speaker 5: Well, it was two things. I didn't like an idiot.
Speaker 5: By that, I mean I had had so much success
Speaker 5: early that what I thought was going to happen was
Speaker 5: I was just going to go from job to jobs,
Speaker 5: and at that point I had done, you know, one
Speaker 5: hundred and something episodes. And the success of the show
Speaker 5: is that it is rooted in a certain rhythm and
Speaker 5: a certain familiarity and a certain pattern that's very true
Speaker 5: to life and as an actor, after a certain point
Speaker 5: in time, you think I've got to be somebody other
Speaker 5: than Elx Cabot. I just I've got to know I
Speaker 5: gotta not wear a suit. And so I was a
Speaker 5: young actor and I wanted to do more things. But
Speaker 5: I truly wish that I had understood at the time.
Speaker 5: And remember everything was changing is reality television was starting
Speaker 5: and that was becoming thus saying, you know, and they
Speaker 5: were about to put Jay Leno on the air every
Speaker 5: night for an hour, and it was all about low
Speaker 5: cost production and you know, reality stars, and you couldn't
Speaker 5: do TV and movies and there wasn't streaming, and like
Speaker 5: the television landscape was very different. And so I thought
Speaker 5: I was going to have to leave the show to
Speaker 5: do something else. And if I'd been more creative, I
Speaker 5: probably would have tried to find a way to do both.
Speaker 5: Because I miss Alex a lot and I love Alex.
Speaker 5: And the reason they didn't kill Alex she went in
Speaker 5: the witness protection is because Dick told me he made
Speaker 5: a huge mistake when he killed Joe Hennessy because he
Speaker 5: always wanted to bring her back back. It's like anybody
Speaker 5: who shows up on and note their lines, we probably
Speaker 5: won't kill That was a terrible idea and I can't
Speaker 5: bring your breath.
Speaker 3: So did you just get a call one day and
Speaker 3: they're like, please come back?
Speaker 5: Or were you like, yeah, okay, big They said you
Speaker 5: want to do half a season and I said, yeah, sure,
Speaker 5: I'd love to do half a season. No, am I
Speaker 5: going to get to do some fun stuff? Can I
Speaker 5: wear pants this time?
Speaker 3: Yeah?
Speaker 5: And you know, and they said yes. And it's so.
Speaker 5: I mean the greatest thing about this job is that
Speaker 5: I live in New York and New York it's a
Speaker 5: character on the show, right, So I get to show
Speaker 5: up in my city, work with these amazing people, really
Speaker 5: explore all of these different corners of Manhattan and brons
Speaker 5: Brooklyn that I never would have and have a great
Speaker 5: time and act my face off sometime. It's such a
Speaker 5: great job.
Speaker 2: So when you came back for season nineteen, is it
Speaker 2: like oh old, like visiting your old high school? Or
Speaker 2: is everyone the same? Is it people and you're like, hey,
Speaker 2: don't you remember me? What is the vibe when you
Speaker 2: come back your most recent episode?
Speaker 5: Well, first of all, like I'm older now, this is
Speaker 5: a while ago, so everybody is totally tattooed. That's the
Speaker 5: first thing I always thought is, oh my god, the
Speaker 5: camera crew is like twenty three and they're totally patted
Speaker 5: up and they're such badasses. Was it like that? Always?
Speaker 5: There are far more women behind the camera than there
Speaker 5: used to be, which is outstanding. The set is just filthy.
Speaker 5: They have got to deep clean that thing. I don't
Speaker 5: care how good it looks on camera. I don't care
Speaker 5: how they've judged it, don't care how they've grew more office.
Speaker 5: Get in there and get to it. I honestly can't
Speaker 5: believe it. There's that, But in terms of Alex and not,
Speaker 5: it feels it's like seeing an old sun and no
Speaker 5: time has passed.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, that's fun. I love it.
Speaker 1: Did you like, I know you were in ninety seven episodes,
Speaker 1: so this might seem like a very you know, broad
Speaker 1: question and you can definitely pass on it. But were
Speaker 1: there any episodes like we always talk about the episodes
Speaker 1: that haunt us, Like we've seen every episode of the show,
Speaker 1: you know, multiple times, but there's a few that I'm like,
Speaker 1: oh my god, this one really like when I used
Speaker 1: my life, Like, yeah, I think about it, you know,
Speaker 1: or like, were there any like that for you or
Speaker 1: any that you like changed your perspective on anything, or
Speaker 1: you know.
Speaker 5: You know, I think what happened. I remember thinking on
Speaker 5: days that I worked, I couldn't read the paper because
Speaker 5: it was too much bad news. It was just too
Speaker 5: like too much. And I don't think it's an accident
Speaker 5: that most of us. I mean, it's certainly works, because
Speaker 5: certainly may certainly be have become involved in organizations that
Speaker 5: address the issues that we talk about on the show.
Speaker 5: Because it's kind of full time immersion in this really
Speaker 5: dark place, you feel like you need to do something
Speaker 5: about it in real life, right, So is it any
Speaker 5: one thing? I mean, there's an episode about an honor
Speaker 5: killing that's basically right. When I first started that, I thought,
Speaker 5: oh my god, I can't believe this happens in the world.
Speaker 5: Happens all the time. It was a shocking amount of
Speaker 5: child sexual abuse that is just it is ripped on
Speaker 5: the headline. I mean the headlines are often worse actually,
Speaker 5: so over time, exposure to this material I think has
Speaker 5: made us really rethink, we think how we want to
Speaker 5: spend our philanthropic efforts, really want to put them. It's
Speaker 5: not easy to walk away from.
Speaker 1: Yeah, And I was reading a little bit about you,
Speaker 1: and I know you've had involvement with Planned Parenthood and
Speaker 1: the organization Safe Horizon. Are you still involved with those
Speaker 1: organizations or is there an organization that you currently work
Speaker 1: with that you very.
Speaker 5: Much so, I don't. I'm not on the board of
Speaker 5: Safe Horizon anymore. But just for another reason, I just
Speaker 5: I just became so busy. But the Safe Horizon phone
Speaker 5: number was actually the number that they flashed at the
Speaker 5: end of every episode of the first season of SCU
Speaker 5: because it was one of the few organizations in the
Speaker 5: United States to address actually violent crimes. And I'm still
Speaker 5: very involved with Plant Parenthood. My great grandmother actually founded
Speaker 5: Planned Parenthood Texas ninety eight, Oh my gosh, Ruby Webster March,
Speaker 5: and that was the West Texas Mother's Health Clinic, I
Speaker 5: think that's what it was called at the time, and
Speaker 5: then it was absorbed in the Planned Parenthood and she
Speaker 5: would be really appalled that was happening today, saying would
Speaker 5: not be happy about it. But anyway, somebody in nineteen
Speaker 5: thirty eight thinks it's a good idea. Let's get on
Speaker 5: board here.
Speaker 3: In twenty twenty, yeah, exactly.
Speaker 1: Well, I proudly donate to Planned Parenthood every month in
Speaker 1: Mike Pence's name. I think my donation is still holding
Speaker 1: over so awesome.
Speaker 2: No, it's really incredible that SVU has been so ahead
Speaker 2: of its time on so many important issues that are
Speaker 2: now still being talked about, and like there're just episodes
Speaker 2: from season four that are still issues today. I think
Speaker 2: about one of my most haunting was the episode with
Speaker 2: Kate Menig and she was trans and they sent her
Speaker 2: to the boyd present and then Benson calls you and
Speaker 2: is like meet me at the hospital, and like that
Speaker 2: scene lives in me all the.
Speaker 3: Time, and it's just like so fucked that it's.
Speaker 5: It's absolutely still an issue. It could be headline news
Speaker 5: right now. It's you know, I will tell you something
Speaker 5: that's sort of scary. When I started the number of
Speaker 5: sex crimes. First of all, who knows how many are
Speaker 5: actually brought to trial or people press charges. But the
Speaker 5: number of times somebody's convicted is the conviction rate is
Speaker 5: four percent for percent, So that's it's better now. I
Speaker 5: would not say it's amazing, but it's significantly better. But
Speaker 5: if that tells you how, it's just it's not a
Speaker 5: subject matter anybody wanted to talk about. Our face and
Speaker 5: I really credit the show making that part of a
Speaker 5: national conversation around something that people have been really afraid
Speaker 5: to talk about.
Speaker 1: Yeah, we definitely have learned so much from I mean,
Speaker 1: like I had to did We covered the episode Witness
Speaker 1: where you have your your amazing relationship with.
Speaker 3: Narda Lee.
Speaker 1: The actress Saiita eric Akalona, who we also talked to
Speaker 1: on our podcast, one of the most powerful on the
Speaker 1: stand performances fantastic.
Speaker 5: She is so good.
Speaker 3: Okay, yeah, no, absolutely, absolutely, No, I wasn't. I wasn't
Speaker 3: trying to interrupt.
Speaker 1: I just yeah, I was just saying, you know, like
Speaker 1: the atrocities in the Congo, what I have known about
Speaker 1: that if I didn't watch SPU, I can't say for sure.
Speaker 1: You know, like there's there's so much that they I
Speaker 1: think that they're constantly reinventing and finding new ways to
Speaker 1: bring issues to the forefront.
Speaker 3: And not as serious of an issue.
Speaker 2: But I love whenever you or any of the DA's
Speaker 2: like go into a giant board meeting and take down
Speaker 2: a huge company And it was like the kid who
Speaker 2: was licking lead off the cars, And so I'll forever
Speaker 2: know what Pika is because of.
Speaker 5: Oh yeah, exactly. You know, it's so funny. I one
Speaker 5: of my goals. It's not really really, it's you set
Speaker 5: small goals for yourself in the middle of the scene.
Speaker 5: And there's always water on the tables in the courtroom
Speaker 5: because he does not they picture water. And I was like,
Speaker 5: one of these times, I'm going to drink water. I'm
Speaker 5: going to drink water and camera. These pictures that I've
Speaker 5: been looking at for four years are not just going
Speaker 5: to and so I would slowly have drinking glass of water. They'
Speaker 5: nota be having sipping my water thoughtfully, and I was like,
Speaker 5: I never made it in there. I was like, I'm
Speaker 5: going to drink water on camera if it kills me.
Speaker 5: It never happened. No, they're not going anybody else on
Speaker 5: the show not Yeah, nope, that's not that's not the deal.
Speaker 3: This more silly.
Speaker 2: But we did talk to Neil bar and we talked
Speaker 2: about Rory Culkin that episode Man and his Wig. Was
Speaker 2: it hard not to laugh at the wig? Were you
Speaker 2: uh distracted by the wig?
Speaker 5: I could not afford to be distracted by anything because mine.
Speaker 5: You know, you've got to learn legal easee right, you
Speaker 5: have to. You need to present this material like like
Speaker 5: you're not memorizing it, like you just know what you're
Speaker 5: talking about, you know, you know what I mean, Like
Speaker 5: artists don't have to come up with the right words
Speaker 5: and the technique of the paint that they're just it's
Speaker 5: your vocabulary, right, your vernacular of your profession. So I
Speaker 5: was always really fixated on my lines, probably more so
Speaker 5: than other people's, you know, costume. But working with Neil
Speaker 5: was one of the most fun things. Neil came up
Speaker 5: with some of the most creative ideas. He loved bringing
Speaker 5: on the most eclectic group of actors. Oh, he's so awesome.
Speaker 1: Yeah, we've talked to him twice and we are obsessed
Speaker 1: with him. Uh and yeah, like Lena Ollen. He brings
Speaker 1: in all these like beautiful actresses from like not like
Speaker 1: older years, but you know like that maybe I haven't
Speaker 1: seen you know that they kind of get like a
Speaker 1: second life.
Speaker 5: Neil Behar is a lover of the lady actress.
Speaker 3: Yes, for sure. He's told us a lot about that.
Speaker 1: Well, speaking of lady love, I am obsessed with Kathy
Speaker 1: Griffin when she comes on the episode PC and is
Speaker 1: immediately obsessed with you, like because you're so beautiful. She
Speaker 1: just like is jaw on the floor? Like did you
Speaker 1: like working with comedians? And like how was working with her?
Speaker 5: I was so intimidated by her because you know, she's
Speaker 5: so bright and she's so sharp, but she's so funny,
Speaker 5: and I was nervous, you know, some dope. She could
Speaker 5: not have been nicer, could not have been nicer. It's funny,
Speaker 5: you know, awesome. The people who play irredeemable assholes are
Speaker 5: actually I think the most pleasant people in real life
Speaker 5: to work with. She's incredible. I don't know that's the
Speaker 5: episode recently. Oh, John Glazer's episode aired recently. John is
Speaker 5: a friend. I've worked with him in the past and
Speaker 5: he's like, my specialty is flineball. But he's the nicest guy.
Speaker 5: He's so good. So you know, anytime somebody comes on
Speaker 5: the little snark, it's probably gonna be a fun day.
Speaker 3: Yeah. Well that we have not asked anyone.
Speaker 2: We've talked to a few cast members and I can't
Speaker 2: believe we haven't. But any insight you can tell us
Speaker 2: on the Christmas party is what are the SVW holiday parties?
Speaker 5: Like? Oh, fascinating, really you hearing about the wrap party
Speaker 5: and the Christmas.
Speaker 3: First either, I mean Christmas.
Speaker 1: We're into the holiday party vibe, but the wrap parties too.
Speaker 3: Sure tell us anything? Yeah, you know.
Speaker 5: What ended up happening with all of this stuff is
Speaker 5: that you would just be so tired at the end
Speaker 5: of the season. You're like, please, my Christmas present to
Speaker 5: me is my day off? Like it's like, if you
Speaker 5: really want to give me a Christmas present, give me
Speaker 5: a jacket that doesn't have the logo of the show
Speaker 5: on us as if I can either wear it without
Speaker 5: being recognized, or we gets it to somebody who will
Speaker 5: enjoy it. Mostly, I'm always trying to get non logo apparel.
Speaker 3: Yeah, you know what I mean.
Speaker 5: I don't want to wear a big SPU sweatshirt.
Speaker 2: So I will wear them for you. Oh, I do
Speaker 2: have an extensive SVU merch.
Speaker 5: That's what I think. They're meaningful gifts. Yeah, don't. I
Speaker 5: don't want the merch. I think that's like wearing a target.
Speaker 3: I can't believe we didn't ask you.
Speaker 2: What has been some of your craziest fan interactions When
Speaker 2: you're recognized on the street.
Speaker 5: You know, mostly people are really really nice. I think
Speaker 5: this show strikes a chord and people that's quite personal
Speaker 5: and they're just so enthusiastic. But I will tell you,
Speaker 5: you know, it used to be, oh my gosh, I
Speaker 5: love your show. I watch it all the time. It's
Speaker 5: so much fun and that, and you know, in the
Speaker 5: last five years it's oh my gosh, my mom loves
Speaker 5: your show. It's her favorite show. And I think that's cool. Uh,
Speaker 5: do you watch it? But people aren't really sweet. People
Speaker 5: are great. The only time I ever anything got weird
Speaker 5: was that I was walking in Times Square once. It
Speaker 5: is almost entirely dependent on whether or not I wear
Speaker 5: my glasses, because I wear glasses in real life. And
Speaker 5: the reason Alex Cabot wears glasses is because that was
Speaker 5: my first on camera job and I didn't think that
Speaker 5: I would be able to see my marks and my life.
Speaker 5: I hadn't worked in television before, and so I said,
Speaker 5: I think she wears glasses because I couldn't see a
Speaker 5: freaking thing. And then it just became kind of a
Speaker 5: hallmark for the character, which is great. But now whenever
Speaker 5: I wear my glasses, I got to be prepared for
Speaker 5: for And now everybody has a phone right with a camera,
Speaker 5: so I've got there's some really crappy pictures of me
Speaker 5: out there like us so.
Speaker 3: Well.
Speaker 1: Speaking of fans of the show, how did you feel
Speaker 1: about Mickey Rourke when he discovered SVU about twenty years
Speaker 1: later and had a passionate declaration of love on Instagram
Speaker 1: for the show.
Speaker 5: I so, I've been kind of keeping myself off social media,
Speaker 5: especially since in the last year, because which made me
Speaker 5: a little like not so. But a friend of mine
Speaker 5: alerted me to what was going on, and I mean
Speaker 5: I pretty much called everybody I knew and I was like, oh,
Speaker 5: I'm on friends of thinking work. That's basically what I said.
Speaker 5: I haven't met him, which I will, will I hang out?
Speaker 3: Yeah, and you know, we.
Speaker 5: Instagram from each other. Hand today.
Speaker 1: I died.
Speaker 5: It was probably one of the greatest compliments I've ever
Speaker 5: seen in my life.
Speaker 1: So funny, it was so sincere and like, hey, have
Speaker 1: you guys seen the show SVU that's been running for
Speaker 1: twenty two seasons at that point, like it made.
Speaker 5: My day and not I'm a huge fan. I prefaced
Speaker 5: this saying I'm a huge fan. But he was like,
Speaker 5: Marvel what SVU is out there? But wow, that is
Speaker 5: that is high praise.
Speaker 2: Oh my god, you tell us about Naomi. We saw
Speaker 2: amazing leather fun outfits. And we've talked to your co
Speaker 2: star Mausam Macar on the show.
Speaker 5: Oh of course you talked to Malam.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, she told us a little bit about the show.
Speaker 3: But what is your role?
Speaker 5: Oh, I'm an intergalactic badass all La. And I say
Speaker 5: this because this is exactly how the character was described
Speaker 5: to me when I was parditioning. She is an intergalactic
Speaker 5: badass a lah Ripley, And I thought, do I want
Speaker 5: to be an intergoactic badass? The superpowers were able to Baroney.
Speaker 5: The answer is a very quick yes, I do. So
Speaker 5: that has been really fun.
Speaker 3: And would you come back to sview?
Speaker 5: Yeah?
Speaker 1: That was my next question. Yeah, we want more.
Speaker 2: You're now like helping people escape terrible situations.
Speaker 3: And are we going to see more of Alex's cabot.
Speaker 5: Here's what I say about squ SVU is the boyfriend
Speaker 5: you can never quit running into. Squ is pretty much
Speaker 5: always a yes. So never say.
Speaker 3: Never before we no.
Speaker 1: I mean we're gonna let you go because we've already
Speaker 1: taken up a lot of your time, but like just
Speaker 1: before you like any last minute super funny, like your
Speaker 1: go to funny story that you like to tell SVU
Speaker 1: fans or anyone that you meet, like of memories.
Speaker 3: Or something funny that happened on the set.
Speaker 5: I wish I could help you out here, and I
Speaker 5: would love to privately, but then the culture in which
Speaker 5: we live in right now, no freaking ways want to
Speaker 5: share that with you. Only Gatlow's humor we'll get you
Speaker 5: through those days. And I shan't be recorded saying it.
Speaker 3: How excited we're all of you for that interview? How
Speaker 3: about that about she was.
Speaker 1: Spilling some tea, we were getting some info.
Speaker 2: And we got, you know, a kissing situation, and yeah,
Speaker 2: she's so cool.
Speaker 3: Though I would like, I'm like, it's like her, Laura Bananti.
Speaker 1: It's like you're not allowed to be like smart, funny,
Speaker 1: hot and cool too, Like I need you to be
Speaker 1: like a jerk er, not interesting, you know.
Speaker 3: But allow.
Speaker 1: I see some people are allowed to all these gifts.
Speaker 2: How sad would it be if Stephanie March sucked? That
Speaker 2: would be devastating to all of us? Of course that
Speaker 2: would have been what would we have done? Will be like, okay,
Speaker 2: roll the tape.
Speaker 1: No, she was amazing, And I don't know if there's
Speaker 1: a ton of takeaway from this episode for our practical
Speaker 1: lives because neither of us are involved in you know,
Speaker 1: transnational drug trade. But I would say, yeah, if the
Speaker 1: Columbian cartels are coming at you, maybe back back off.
Speaker 1: I don't know personally from what I've seen, I wouldn't.
Speaker 2: Be Oh no, I would be the I would be
Speaker 2: the front of house guy at the restaurant.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I would go.
Speaker 2: I don't know that, man. Yeah, no, idea, absolutely not.
Speaker 2: Piece of them put me in jail, bitch. I don't
Speaker 2: give a fuck, are you kidding? Like, yeah, I don't.
Speaker 2: But that's why we're not working in the justice system.
Speaker 1: Because I also probably would not drop my life to
Speaker 1: go to the Congo and fight for women's rights. I mean,
Speaker 1: I'm no Alex Cabot, that's for sure.
Speaker 2: Yeah, but I don't get all of them always. I
Speaker 2: don't need protective I don't want that.
Speaker 3: I don't.
Speaker 1: It's why just take it. I know, live is always
Speaker 1: like I'm fine. It's like there's a serial killer who's
Speaker 1: actually like using your name in the clues, like and
Speaker 1: I can do it.
Speaker 3: I can handle it.
Speaker 1: It's like crazy, but yeah, an amazing episode, Like and
Speaker 1: I was, you know, happy to learn about Pablo Escobar because,
Speaker 1: like I said, I never watched an Arco's I didn't
Speaker 1: really know.
Speaker 3: I just knew the sort of general scariness.
Speaker 2: But well, yeah, and the flight thing is true, like
Speaker 2: they will kill, they don't are, they don't care.
Speaker 3: These are just like business people.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and I really wonder how things would operate if
Speaker 1: drugs were legalized, you know, and these people just were
Speaker 1: running legitimate businesses.
Speaker 3: You know, they know how to do it, they know
Speaker 3: how to move the product.
Speaker 1: Yeah, do they want to pay tax? I can't even
Speaker 1: I'll get into all of that. But it is one
Speaker 1: of my favorite episodes. I feel the acting is so
Speaker 1: like top notch in this episode with Dave Thorton and Petrovsky,
Speaker 1: and just like Zapota, the anger, the boats, like I
Speaker 1: just like, I think this is one of my top
Speaker 1: twenty episodes. I really enjoy it.
Speaker 3: Yeah, no, it is a It is definitely a good one.
Speaker 3: It has everything.
Speaker 2: It has like bureaued conflict and chases and lies and
Speaker 2: secrets and cliffhangers and.
Speaker 3: Like twists for days.
Speaker 1: I mean, like the twist at the end is I
Speaker 1: remember watching it for the first time and being like
Speaker 1: jaw on the floor.
Speaker 3: But I liked it. We had a great time.
Speaker 1: So let's segue right into what would Sister Peg do,
Speaker 1: our weekly segment where we give you guys an organization,
Speaker 1: an article, a book, a documentary, something to help flush
Speaker 1: out more of what we talked about in today's episode.
Speaker 1: And we'd like to highlight this week the organization the
Speaker 1: Washington Office of Latin America, which is WOLA. WOLA dot
Speaker 1: org is the website, and they are the leading research
Speaker 1: and advocacy organization that advances human rights in the Americas
Speaker 1: and they partner with people throughout the Americas to identify
Speaker 1: urgent human rights issues and proposed research based policy changes.
Speaker 1: They specifically have a program on changing drug policy, which
Speaker 1: is in direct relation to today's app. And I'll just
Speaker 1: quote from their website, so you guys don't think that
Speaker 1: I'm just extemporaneously giving a blurb. WOLA believes that the
Speaker 1: US led quote War on drugs has failed to suppress
Speaker 1: the production, trafficking, or consumption of legal drugs while enriching
Speaker 1: and empowering criminal enterprises. The enforcement of harsh drug laws
Speaker 1: has led to human rights abuses, overcrowded prisons, and threats
Speaker 1: to democratic institutions.
Speaker 3: And I think we can all agree.
Speaker 1: Yeah, the war on drugs has been was lost a
Speaker 1: long time ago, and WOLA advocates for reducing the harms
Speaker 1: caused by the drug trade and drug policies themselves. So
Speaker 1: a great organization. You can learn more or donate at
Speaker 1: wolawola dot org. That's WOLA dot org.
Speaker 2: Thank you for that, And next week we keep on
Speaker 2: rolling on old school ep stolen Season three, Episode three,
Speaker 2: pretty fun one. So I'm very excited that you listen
Speaker 2: to us. Honestly, so grateful and I'm so happy I
Speaker 2: get to watch so muches for you.
Speaker 1: Thanks for messaging us, Keep messaging us, to our insta,
Speaker 1: to our email.
Speaker 3: We love you guys, See you next week.
Speaker 2: That's Messed Up is an exactly right production.
Speaker 1: If you have compliments you'd like to give us or
Speaker 1: episodes you'd like us to cover, shoot us an email
Speaker 1: at That's Messed uppod at gmail dot com.
Speaker 2: Follow the podcast on Instagram at That's Messed Up Pod,
Speaker 2: and on Twitter at mess and follow us personally at
Speaker 2: karaklank and.
Speaker 3: At glitter Cheese.
Speaker 1: As always, please see our show notes for sources and
Speaker 1: more information.
Speaker 2: Thank you so much to our producer Annalise Nelson.
Speaker 3: And to our mixer, John Bradley, and.
Speaker 2: To Henry Kaperski for our theme song and Carly gen
Speaker 2: Andrews for our artwork. Thank you to our executive producers
Speaker 2: Georgia Hardstart, Karen Kilgarriff, Daniel Kramer and everybody at Exactly
Speaker 2: Right Media.
Speaker 4: Dun Dun