1 00:00:00,800 --> 00:00:04,360 Speaker 1: You're listening to the Bloomberg Sound On podcast. Catch us 2 00:00:04,360 --> 00:00:07,560 Speaker 1: live weekdays at one Eastern on Bloomberg dot com, the 3 00:00:07,640 --> 00:00:10,280 Speaker 1: I Heard Radio app, and the Bloomberg Business app. We're 4 00:00:10,320 --> 00:00:14,240 Speaker 1: listening on demand wherever you get your podcast. It's a 5 00:00:14,240 --> 00:00:17,279 Speaker 1: massive crowd outside the courthouse in Lower Manhattan and what's 6 00:00:17,280 --> 00:00:19,280 Speaker 1: turned into a bit of a circus this morning, as 7 00:00:19,280 --> 00:00:21,640 Speaker 1: you might expect. It's a good chance to add a 8 00:00:21,760 --> 00:00:24,920 Speaker 1: voice of reason here. Tara Lee Grove, professor of law 9 00:00:24,960 --> 00:00:28,080 Speaker 1: at the University of Texas, with us now on Bloomberg 10 00:00:28,160 --> 00:00:31,320 Speaker 1: sound On. Tara, what's your expectation today. We understand that 11 00:00:31,320 --> 00:00:34,360 Speaker 1: that we'll finally knowing that we have not seen the 12 00:00:34,440 --> 00:00:36,919 Speaker 1: charges yet, despite a lot of reports, this indictment will 13 00:00:36,960 --> 00:00:41,120 Speaker 1: be unsealed at the time of his arrangement, right, so 14 00:00:41,240 --> 00:00:44,440 Speaker 1: we don't actually know what the former president is charged 15 00:00:44,440 --> 00:00:47,080 Speaker 1: with until we see that indictment. So we'll have a 16 00:00:47,080 --> 00:00:51,360 Speaker 1: lot more clarity on that fairly soon. Your thoughts on 17 00:00:51,360 --> 00:00:54,200 Speaker 1: what you've heard so far and the way that this 18 00:00:54,320 --> 00:00:57,160 Speaker 1: procedure will take place. It's not going to be like 19 00:00:57,280 --> 00:01:01,480 Speaker 1: any other booking obviously, digital fingerprints, we understand, no mug 20 00:01:01,480 --> 00:01:05,200 Speaker 1: shot tera This is something we've never seen before. Right, Well, 21 00:01:05,200 --> 00:01:07,440 Speaker 1: this is a situation we've never seen before as well, 22 00:01:07,680 --> 00:01:11,840 Speaker 1: a former president being indicted by a state court. Is 23 00:01:12,120 --> 00:01:16,160 Speaker 1: we live in extraordinary times and this is unprecedented in 24 00:01:16,200 --> 00:01:19,119 Speaker 1: our history. Well, that's true. And as we set history 25 00:01:19,160 --> 00:01:22,800 Speaker 1: here today, what rites does Donald Trump enjoy, if any, 26 00:01:22,880 --> 00:01:24,919 Speaker 1: that the rest of us do not? As a former 27 00:01:24,959 --> 00:01:27,800 Speaker 1: president going through this process, is he protected from anything 28 00:01:27,840 --> 00:01:31,640 Speaker 1: that you and I would not be. No, So, as 29 00:01:31,640 --> 00:01:35,640 Speaker 1: a formal matter, the former president is just like you 30 00:01:35,800 --> 00:01:37,960 Speaker 1: or me or anyone else living in this country. There 31 00:01:37,959 --> 00:01:42,920 Speaker 1: are constitutional protections for all defendants in criminal cases, and 32 00:01:42,959 --> 00:01:45,880 Speaker 1: those apply to a former president just like anyone else. 33 00:01:46,360 --> 00:01:49,560 Speaker 1: And the key word here is former. Right once someone 34 00:01:49,680 --> 00:01:53,800 Speaker 1: is no longer in office, that person becomes a civilian again, 35 00:01:54,360 --> 00:01:57,960 Speaker 1: just like both of us, and so constitutional protections are 36 00:01:57,960 --> 00:02:01,040 Speaker 1: not different. Now, that's as a formal matter. Obviously, as 37 00:02:01,040 --> 00:02:04,720 Speaker 1: a practical matter, it's a much more complicated situation because 38 00:02:04,760 --> 00:02:07,600 Speaker 1: most criminal defendants are not protected by the Secret Service. 39 00:02:08,000 --> 00:02:13,160 Speaker 1: Most criminal defendants are not former presidents, and so obviously 40 00:02:13,160 --> 00:02:16,239 Speaker 1: there have to be some practical adjustments for that. We've 41 00:02:16,280 --> 00:02:18,399 Speaker 1: got news on another case that I need to ask 42 00:02:18,440 --> 00:02:20,680 Speaker 1: you about here, Tara and that involves the special counsel 43 00:02:21,080 --> 00:02:24,280 Speaker 1: here in Washington, the case that many think would be 44 00:02:24,320 --> 00:02:29,160 Speaker 1: more appropriate for levying first ever charges against a former president. This, 45 00:02:29,240 --> 00:02:32,120 Speaker 1: of course, is the investigation in a January six The 46 00:02:32,200 --> 00:02:36,359 Speaker 1: judge presiding over that case is not allowing journalists, or 47 00:02:36,639 --> 00:02:42,000 Speaker 1: I should say, is is going to allow former White 48 00:02:42,000 --> 00:02:45,280 Speaker 1: House advisors to testify before a federal grand jury. Donald 49 00:02:45,320 --> 00:02:47,760 Speaker 1: Trump was trying to keep that from happening. Has been 50 00:02:47,760 --> 00:02:53,360 Speaker 1: appealing a ruling rejecting his executive privilege challenge. How important 51 00:02:53,480 --> 00:02:56,799 Speaker 1: is this development in the January sixth case being investigated 52 00:02:56,800 --> 00:03:00,720 Speaker 1: by Special Counsel Jack Smith. So it's all the helpful 53 00:03:00,800 --> 00:03:04,280 Speaker 1: to anyone investigating a case to have more information rather 54 00:03:04,320 --> 00:03:08,359 Speaker 1: than less. And so it's it's very important that that 55 00:03:09,280 --> 00:03:13,200 Speaker 1: the Special Master found that executive privilege does not apply here. Now, 56 00:03:13,200 --> 00:03:15,079 Speaker 1: we of course don't know and won't know for some 57 00:03:15,720 --> 00:03:19,800 Speaker 1: time what exactly these individuals might say. Grand jury proceedings 58 00:03:19,800 --> 00:03:24,000 Speaker 1: are are are confidential typically, and so we'll find out 59 00:03:24,040 --> 00:03:27,600 Speaker 1: in a while exactly how interesting this testimony turns out 60 00:03:27,600 --> 00:03:31,000 Speaker 1: to be. Was that inevitable? Or does it tell you 61 00:03:31,040 --> 00:03:37,280 Speaker 1: something about the trajectory of this case? So I so 62 00:03:37,400 --> 00:03:41,480 Speaker 1: much about this litigation involving the former president is unprecedented. 63 00:03:42,600 --> 00:03:45,800 Speaker 1: Is it unusual for people to be able to testify 64 00:03:45,960 --> 00:03:49,880 Speaker 1: against a former boss? No, But when you have an 65 00:03:49,920 --> 00:03:54,880 Speaker 1: overlay of the presidency and executive privilege, it becomes much 66 00:03:54,920 --> 00:03:59,200 Speaker 1: more complicated. So yeah, I think a lot of a 67 00:03:59,200 --> 00:04:03,040 Speaker 1: lot about what we're today in a sortid litigation is 68 00:04:03,040 --> 00:04:08,040 Speaker 1: pretty extraordinary. You know, it's been suggested that Alvin Bragg 69 00:04:08,200 --> 00:04:12,160 Speaker 1: is being motivated by politics here, as critics say that, 70 00:04:12,840 --> 00:04:16,480 Speaker 1: you know, he ran on indicting Donald Trump. His supporters 71 00:04:16,520 --> 00:04:19,200 Speaker 1: say that this Manhattan DA would never have gone here 72 00:04:19,240 --> 00:04:21,440 Speaker 1: to actually go up against a former president unless he 73 00:04:21,480 --> 00:04:25,800 Speaker 1: had a case that was meaningful and very difficult to beat. 74 00:04:26,600 --> 00:04:30,440 Speaker 1: Which side do you fall on? So I think it's 75 00:04:30,560 --> 00:04:33,720 Speaker 1: very hard to know exactly what motivates any individual, and 76 00:04:33,760 --> 00:04:36,800 Speaker 1: I'm not going to claim to have detailed knowledge about this, 77 00:04:37,320 --> 00:04:40,039 Speaker 1: but I think most prosecutors only try to prosecute a 78 00:04:40,080 --> 00:04:43,320 Speaker 1: case if they have one. I think that's the general 79 00:04:43,480 --> 00:04:46,000 Speaker 1: general plan. A prosecutor wants to get a conviction, and 80 00:04:46,040 --> 00:04:49,080 Speaker 1: so most prosecutors in most cases would be careful about that. 81 00:04:49,720 --> 00:04:51,840 Speaker 1: I do think it's important to note there are politics 82 00:04:51,839 --> 00:04:54,200 Speaker 1: on all sides of this. I know some people are 83 00:04:54,200 --> 00:04:58,479 Speaker 1: claiming this is politically motivated, but a failure to bring 84 00:04:58,520 --> 00:05:01,160 Speaker 1: an indictment in a case that warrants it and would 85 00:05:01,200 --> 00:05:04,320 Speaker 1: be brought in a case involving a civilian would also 86 00:05:04,360 --> 00:05:07,719 Speaker 1: be political if just because a person was a former president, 87 00:05:07,960 --> 00:05:13,080 Speaker 1: the prosecutor declined to prosecutes. Falsifying business records is a 88 00:05:13,120 --> 00:05:16,360 Speaker 1: real charge if you get more than thirty counts. Can 89 00:05:16,400 --> 00:05:19,560 Speaker 1: you sort of put this in perspective? This is the 90 00:05:19,600 --> 00:05:21,640 Speaker 1: trouble I think a lot of people are having Tara 91 00:05:21,720 --> 00:05:23,880 Speaker 1: put this in perspective. With the other cases. You've got 92 00:05:23,920 --> 00:05:27,960 Speaker 1: Fulton County, Georgia, an alleged attempt to overturn election results there, 93 00:05:27,960 --> 00:05:30,279 Speaker 1: and you've got the Special Council I mentioned here in Washington, 94 00:05:30,360 --> 00:05:34,080 Speaker 1: d C. How do they stack up? So I think 95 00:05:34,080 --> 00:05:37,400 Speaker 1: it's possible we'll see a lot more litigation going forward, 96 00:05:37,880 --> 00:05:40,760 Speaker 1: and someone's going to be the first mover, right, and 97 00:05:41,160 --> 00:05:43,080 Speaker 1: it happens to be in New York in this instance, 98 00:05:43,120 --> 00:05:46,280 Speaker 1: that does not prevent the other cases, which involved, as 99 00:05:46,279 --> 00:05:49,839 Speaker 1: you pointed out, very different matters. I think it's going 100 00:05:49,880 --> 00:05:51,960 Speaker 1: to be a pretty wild ride for the next several 101 00:05:52,000 --> 00:05:55,279 Speaker 1: months to a year. Sarah, thanks for being with us. 102 00:05:55,279 --> 00:05:57,279 Speaker 1: You should come back once we actually understand a little 103 00:05:57,320 --> 00:05:59,480 Speaker 1: more about these charges. Tara Lee Grove, Professor of Law 104 00:05:59,480 --> 00:06:02,640 Speaker 1: at the Universe, City of Texas. You're listening to The 105 00:06:02,640 --> 00:06:06,800 Speaker 1: Bloomberg Sound on podcast. Catch the program live weekdays at 106 00:06:06,839 --> 00:06:10,359 Speaker 1: one Eastern on Bloomberg Radio, the tune in alf, Bloomberg 107 00:06:10,400 --> 00:06:13,239 Speaker 1: dot Com, and the Bloomberg Business App. You can also 108 00:06:13,279 --> 00:06:16,839 Speaker 1: listen live on Amazon Alexa from our flagship New York station, 109 00:06:17,120 --> 00:06:22,039 Speaker 1: Just Say Alexa play Bloomberg eleven thirty, the fastest show 110 00:06:22,040 --> 00:06:25,080 Speaker 1: in politics, Live from Washington. I'm Joe Matthew with our panel, 111 00:06:25,160 --> 00:06:28,560 Speaker 1: Rick Davis and Gene Schanzano. Apparently Donald Trump's legal team 112 00:06:28,560 --> 00:06:30,960 Speaker 1: doesn't even know what all the charges are here. Joe Tacopina, 113 00:06:31,040 --> 00:06:33,440 Speaker 1: his lawyer, talking about that today on ABC News, just 114 00:06:33,480 --> 00:06:37,479 Speaker 1: about certain procedural things, but nothing substantly regarding the indictment. 115 00:06:37,520 --> 00:06:39,840 Speaker 1: They have not shared it with us, won't share it 116 00:06:39,839 --> 00:06:42,600 Speaker 1: with us until it's unsealed. But we know the basis 117 00:06:42,640 --> 00:06:46,040 Speaker 1: of the indictment and the factual allegations in the indictment. 118 00:06:46,200 --> 00:06:47,880 Speaker 1: Of course, that would be the hush money payments to 119 00:06:47,920 --> 00:06:50,400 Speaker 1: Storey Daniels and reports today say we're looking at thirty 120 00:06:50,480 --> 00:06:54,360 Speaker 1: plus counts of falsifying business records that would go back 121 00:06:54,360 --> 00:06:56,320 Speaker 1: to see an end reporting them. Roughly a week ago. 122 00:06:56,400 --> 00:06:59,280 Speaker 1: John Miller had a very similar number. So we'll get 123 00:06:59,360 --> 00:07:03,240 Speaker 1: actual facts on this. And there's Donald Trump getting out 124 00:07:03,240 --> 00:07:05,159 Speaker 1: of the vehicle right now. He just emerged from the 125 00:07:05,279 --> 00:07:08,960 Speaker 1: suv and gives a wave to presumably some crowd that 126 00:07:09,000 --> 00:07:11,560 Speaker 1: could see him, although there are no large gatherings of 127 00:07:11,560 --> 00:07:15,760 Speaker 1: people right around where he is. He's walking with several 128 00:07:15,760 --> 00:07:20,600 Speaker 1: suited security guards wearing sunglasses heading into the courthouse. That 129 00:07:20,680 --> 00:07:23,920 Speaker 1: may be it here, Rick Davis, as we're watching him 130 00:07:24,040 --> 00:07:27,840 Speaker 1: enter the court and there he goes. That might be 131 00:07:27,920 --> 00:07:31,640 Speaker 1: all we actually see of Donald Trump until this arrangement 132 00:07:31,720 --> 00:07:35,360 Speaker 1: has concluded. Rick Davis and Jeannie Chanzano or with us here, Jeannie, 133 00:07:35,400 --> 00:07:37,200 Speaker 1: you were talking about what this means for the city. 134 00:07:37,240 --> 00:07:39,200 Speaker 1: They sure got through town pretty quick. They're at the 135 00:07:39,200 --> 00:07:43,200 Speaker 1: courthouse now and history is about to be made. And 136 00:07:43,320 --> 00:07:45,280 Speaker 1: I can tell you none of us get through the 137 00:07:45,320 --> 00:07:48,800 Speaker 1: city this time. So you know, it's funny how it works. 138 00:07:49,000 --> 00:07:51,720 Speaker 1: And you know one thing, You're right, we may not 139 00:07:51,800 --> 00:07:54,400 Speaker 1: see him again. Who knows. I know an Ian Marie 140 00:07:54,440 --> 00:07:57,040 Speaker 1: was reporting you were reporting that we've heard he would 141 00:07:57,040 --> 00:07:59,400 Speaker 1: like to speak afterwards, but you know, there are awful 142 00:07:59,440 --> 00:08:02,360 Speaker 1: lot of secure of concerns attached to that, so we 143 00:08:02,400 --> 00:08:04,880 Speaker 1: don't know if we will see him then. But you know, 144 00:08:05,000 --> 00:08:07,960 Speaker 1: somebody we did see and you mentioned, was Marjorie Taylor Green, 145 00:08:08,040 --> 00:08:10,320 Speaker 1: and I have to ask you and rip is thirty 146 00:08:10,360 --> 00:08:13,440 Speaker 1: seconds to a minute really a rally. She went into 147 00:08:13,440 --> 00:08:15,840 Speaker 1: the park, she had her bullhorn and she was out again. 148 00:08:16,560 --> 00:08:19,840 Speaker 1: So you know, between her and George Santos, he is 149 00:08:19,880 --> 00:08:22,040 Speaker 1: really running low. And I think this is a very 150 00:08:22,120 --> 00:08:26,480 Speaker 1: serious issue on supporters of note amongst the Republican Party. 151 00:08:26,480 --> 00:08:29,360 Speaker 1: They have supported in verbally, but a big question when 152 00:08:29,360 --> 00:08:32,640 Speaker 1: he speaks tonight from Mara Lago, does anybody of note 153 00:08:32,720 --> 00:08:36,040 Speaker 1: from the Republican Party come down to support him besides 154 00:08:36,120 --> 00:08:39,200 Speaker 1: the usual suspects. Yes, pretty hard to hear what she said, 155 00:08:39,240 --> 00:08:42,240 Speaker 1: although she seems to be pretty sore about about what 156 00:08:42,400 --> 00:08:45,600 Speaker 1: Mayor Adams said. Eric Adams actually had a message from 157 00:08:45,640 --> 00:08:49,560 Speaker 1: Marjorie Taylor Green yesterday. People like Marjorie Taylor Green, who 158 00:08:49,679 --> 00:08:54,720 Speaker 1: is known to spread misinformation and hate speech of She stated, 159 00:08:54,840 --> 00:08:58,000 Speaker 1: She's come into town while you in town, be on 160 00:08:58,320 --> 00:09:02,480 Speaker 1: your best behavior like that obviously that's what got her 161 00:09:02,520 --> 00:09:10,319 Speaker 1: going today. And he didn't see protesting, but she called 162 00:09:10,360 --> 00:09:13,040 Speaker 1: me out my name, Well, you will out prime in 163 00:09:13,160 --> 00:09:16,959 Speaker 1: your streets and you send down here, Rick Davis, who 164 00:09:16,960 --> 00:09:18,920 Speaker 1: are the henchman that he sent out? I assume that 165 00:09:19,400 --> 00:09:22,760 Speaker 1: I assume they're talking about New York police officers, right, 166 00:09:22,800 --> 00:09:26,120 Speaker 1: I mean, thirty thousand strong, they're keeping the piece, and uh, 167 00:09:26,440 --> 00:09:28,400 Speaker 1: I'm not exactly sure I'd in the middle of a 168 00:09:28,440 --> 00:09:31,680 Speaker 1: crowd like that, I'd be named calling New York cops. 169 00:09:31,720 --> 00:09:35,120 Speaker 1: I mean, that's a life threatening kind of episode. Thirty 170 00:09:35,120 --> 00:09:38,040 Speaker 1: five thousand. This is an all hands situation, although I 171 00:09:38,040 --> 00:09:40,400 Speaker 1: have to admit they're doing a pretty darn good job 172 00:09:40,480 --> 00:09:43,560 Speaker 1: keeping things together here. Rick. We we saw a couple 173 00:09:43,600 --> 00:09:46,280 Speaker 1: of scuffles, as Anne Marie mentioned, some some folks came 174 00:09:46,280 --> 00:09:47,960 Speaker 1: to blows. I guess that's going to happen at an 175 00:09:48,040 --> 00:09:51,120 Speaker 1: event like this, but so far it's actually been very 176 00:09:51,120 --> 00:09:55,400 Speaker 1: carefully controlled. Yeah. I think that the city's shown up well. Right, 177 00:09:55,440 --> 00:09:57,720 Speaker 1: I mean, you can imagine what this is costing them, right, 178 00:09:57,800 --> 00:10:02,080 Speaker 1: all this every cop in uniform warm over time. Uh, 179 00:10:02,240 --> 00:10:04,800 Speaker 1: you know, this is this is really gonna, you know, 180 00:10:05,200 --> 00:10:08,560 Speaker 1: stress the city budgets for this, but I do think 181 00:10:08,600 --> 00:10:11,000 Speaker 1: that they're they're showing up really well today and I 182 00:10:11,000 --> 00:10:13,280 Speaker 1: hope everything goes peacefully. I would say it is an 183 00:10:13,280 --> 00:10:15,840 Speaker 1: interesting point that Genie made earlier about like no real 184 00:10:15,920 --> 00:10:19,880 Speaker 1: senior Republicans out talking in the press today too much 185 00:10:19,920 --> 00:10:22,200 Speaker 1: and or showing up in New York. And I think 186 00:10:22,240 --> 00:10:24,160 Speaker 1: there's a lot of questions inst like what are these 187 00:10:24,200 --> 00:10:27,400 Speaker 1: charges going to be? Uh, there's more and more, you know, 188 00:10:27,480 --> 00:10:30,040 Speaker 1: people scratching their heads, and the Republican establishment I talked 189 00:10:30,040 --> 00:10:32,360 Speaker 1: to that says, look, if this was hush money payments, 190 00:10:32,360 --> 00:10:36,280 Speaker 1: it's outrageous. But like, yeah, if the guy violated tax law, 191 00:10:36,400 --> 00:10:38,280 Speaker 1: I'm not sure how hard we can really lean in 192 00:10:38,320 --> 00:10:41,480 Speaker 1: on this. Yes, right, Kevin McCarthy did not show up 193 00:10:41,559 --> 00:10:46,560 Speaker 1: a Genie as you might expect, but he's got his 194 00:10:47,080 --> 00:10:49,560 Speaker 1: pinned tweet at the top of his feed. Here we 195 00:10:49,640 --> 00:10:53,240 Speaker 1: go again, an outrageous abuse of power by a radical 196 00:10:53,320 --> 00:10:57,040 Speaker 1: DA who lets violent criminals walk as he pursues political 197 00:10:57,120 --> 00:11:02,000 Speaker 1: vengeance against President Trump. It bring us to the next 198 00:11:02,080 --> 00:11:05,959 Speaker 1: phase in this day. Following the arraynment, Genie, we're actually 199 00:11:05,960 --> 00:11:08,160 Speaker 1: going to hear from Alvin Bragg. He's going to hold 200 00:11:08,160 --> 00:11:12,400 Speaker 1: a news conference right around three thirty New York time. 201 00:11:12,600 --> 00:11:16,000 Speaker 1: What's he going to say? You know, I think that 202 00:11:16,080 --> 00:11:18,040 Speaker 1: was one of the biggest pieces of news we got 203 00:11:18,080 --> 00:11:21,080 Speaker 1: today was that he was going to speak after the 204 00:11:21,320 --> 00:11:23,880 Speaker 1: arrayment and after we know what the charges are. So 205 00:11:23,960 --> 00:11:26,440 Speaker 1: I expect what he is going to try to do 206 00:11:27,000 --> 00:11:31,320 Speaker 1: is give the details of this indictment and to flesh 207 00:11:31,360 --> 00:11:34,679 Speaker 1: out the story and to counteract some of the charges 208 00:11:34,720 --> 00:11:37,200 Speaker 1: that have been lobbed against him in his office. As 209 00:11:37,240 --> 00:11:39,880 Speaker 1: I like to watch truth Social for you, Joe all night, 210 00:11:40,440 --> 00:11:43,480 Speaker 1: Donald Trump was at it all night, all day yesterday 211 00:11:43,520 --> 00:11:47,360 Speaker 1: this morning, and he was attacking the judge, he was 212 00:11:47,400 --> 00:11:51,160 Speaker 1: attacking Alvin Bragg, he was attacking Alvin Bragg's wife, amongst 213 00:11:51,200 --> 00:11:53,760 Speaker 1: other people, a lot of rhinos that I know Rick 214 00:11:53,880 --> 00:11:56,480 Speaker 1: knows well and doesn't describe as rhinos. It went on 215 00:11:56,520 --> 00:11:58,640 Speaker 1: and on, and I think what we're going to hear 216 00:11:58,679 --> 00:12:02,080 Speaker 1: from Alvin Bragg isn't it to counteract this narrative that 217 00:12:02,160 --> 00:12:05,320 Speaker 1: this is a political witch hunt, political persecution because they 218 00:12:05,360 --> 00:12:07,440 Speaker 1: don't want him to run for office, that he was 219 00:12:07,480 --> 00:12:09,680 Speaker 1: sent by Joe Biden. So he's going to try to 220 00:12:09,720 --> 00:12:13,400 Speaker 1: flesh out whatever is in these indictments and whatever this 221 00:12:13,480 --> 00:12:16,280 Speaker 1: indictment and whatever these charges are in a way that 222 00:12:16,320 --> 00:12:18,800 Speaker 1: maybe the American public won't get a good sense of 223 00:12:18,880 --> 00:12:21,880 Speaker 1: by simply reading through what could potentially be a long 224 00:12:22,000 --> 00:12:27,120 Speaker 1: legal document. I'm bringing up truth with Genie's permission here. 225 00:12:27,800 --> 00:12:31,360 Speaker 1: He actually posted seven minutes ago Rick, right before he 226 00:12:31,440 --> 00:12:36,120 Speaker 1: left Trump Tower heading to Lower Manhattan the courthouse. Seems 227 00:12:36,160 --> 00:12:41,320 Speaker 1: so surreal. Wow, they're going to arrest me. Can't believe 228 00:12:41,400 --> 00:12:45,679 Speaker 1: this is happening in America. Maga. It's already been liked 229 00:12:45,679 --> 00:12:48,160 Speaker 1: more than five thousand times. Of course if this were 230 00:12:48,200 --> 00:12:51,240 Speaker 1: on Twitter that would be five million. But I do 231 00:12:51,280 --> 00:12:53,160 Speaker 1: wonder how many people read that and say, hey, wait 232 00:12:53,200 --> 00:12:56,160 Speaker 1: a minute, what is going on here? Yeah? I think 233 00:12:56,200 --> 00:12:59,120 Speaker 1: it's really kind of a somber text for him, right, 234 00:12:59,440 --> 00:13:02,559 Speaker 1: no all apps going angry on you know, the prosecutor's 235 00:13:02,600 --> 00:13:05,280 Speaker 1: wife or anything. I mean, like he's been over the 236 00:13:05,360 --> 00:13:08,240 Speaker 1: top on his comments leading up to this, and to 237 00:13:08,240 --> 00:13:10,960 Speaker 1: put that in and to put that in today, and 238 00:13:11,440 --> 00:13:14,080 Speaker 1: it actually sounds like he's a little worried about it. 239 00:13:14,600 --> 00:13:17,600 Speaker 1: It's it's it's the most peaceful thing he's put on 240 00:13:17,679 --> 00:13:19,960 Speaker 1: true social since they launched them, Like, you really can't 241 00:13:19,960 --> 00:13:22,520 Speaker 1: believe what's happening you really can't believe we're really doing this, 242 00:13:22,800 --> 00:13:25,000 Speaker 1: but don't you know who I am? And we learned 243 00:13:25,040 --> 00:13:27,319 Speaker 1: today that there is news you might have heard me 244 00:13:27,320 --> 00:13:31,960 Speaker 1: mentioned about the Special Counsel here in Washington. His efforts 245 00:13:32,000 --> 00:13:36,360 Speaker 1: to block the this Federal Appeals Court from talking to 246 00:13:36,360 --> 00:13:40,320 Speaker 1: his former White House advisors has been rejected. What does 247 00:13:40,360 --> 00:13:42,880 Speaker 1: that tell us, Jennie about where that investigation is going. 248 00:13:42,920 --> 00:13:44,920 Speaker 1: This is the one where Special Council Jack Smith is 249 00:13:44,920 --> 00:13:50,600 Speaker 1: looking into the classified documents and the events of January sixth. Yeah, 250 00:13:50,800 --> 00:13:52,840 Speaker 1: and you know, I'm going to borrow from somebody else 251 00:13:52,840 --> 00:13:55,240 Speaker 1: who said, you know, Manhattan is taking a lot of 252 00:13:55,280 --> 00:13:58,439 Speaker 1: the spotlight here, but the real power resides in Washington 253 00:13:58,559 --> 00:14:01,560 Speaker 1: with Jack Smith. And decisions like that going in the 254 00:14:01,600 --> 00:14:04,480 Speaker 1: favor of the Feds and Jack Smith in particular, are 255 00:14:04,559 --> 00:14:08,840 Speaker 1: critically important because we know that the Manhattan case is 256 00:14:08,960 --> 00:14:12,200 Speaker 1: probably the weakest of all four of the cases that 257 00:14:12,280 --> 00:14:15,400 Speaker 1: are potentially going to be large lodged against the former president. 258 00:14:15,760 --> 00:14:19,640 Speaker 1: And certainly if he gets what we're hearing reported in 259 00:14:19,680 --> 00:14:21,600 Speaker 1: the Post over the weekend, and if any of these 260 00:14:21,600 --> 00:14:24,920 Speaker 1: people who are going to testify, can you testify to 261 00:14:25,120 --> 00:14:28,280 Speaker 1: this that there is evidence of obstruction that Donald Trump 262 00:14:28,320 --> 00:14:30,720 Speaker 1: had those documents, for instance, and knew what he had 263 00:14:30,800 --> 00:14:33,440 Speaker 1: and that he did. You had a big role in 264 00:14:33,480 --> 00:14:37,040 Speaker 1: the January sixth incitement, and they have had conversations documented 265 00:14:37,040 --> 00:14:39,040 Speaker 1: with him. That is going to be big as it 266 00:14:39,080 --> 00:14:43,160 Speaker 1: pertains to both January six and the documents case at Marlago. Yeah. Fourth, 267 00:14:43,240 --> 00:14:45,560 Speaker 1: there's a lot happening all at once here. If you 268 00:14:45,600 --> 00:14:49,160 Speaker 1: go back fourteen hours on Trump's truth feed, Rick speaking 269 00:14:49,200 --> 00:14:53,000 Speaker 1: of leaks, Special prosecutor Jack Smith what did his name 270 00:14:53,120 --> 00:14:58,600 Speaker 1: used to be in parentheses really leaked massive amounts of 271 00:14:58,640 --> 00:15:04,120 Speaker 1: information to the Washington Compost. Get it. This is illegal, 272 00:15:04,160 --> 00:15:06,840 Speaker 1: and I assume this radical left lunatic, much to the 273 00:15:06,880 --> 00:15:10,680 Speaker 1: chagrin of his Trump hating wife and family, will be prosecuted. 274 00:15:10,960 --> 00:15:13,680 Speaker 1: He goes on to call him a totally biased thug. 275 00:15:13,720 --> 00:15:15,480 Speaker 1: This is the type of thing that got people talking 276 00:15:15,560 --> 00:15:19,320 Speaker 1: about a potential gagwer right, and he can't help himself. 277 00:15:19,360 --> 00:15:22,520 Speaker 1: This is just who he is. The grievances just pour out. Um. 278 00:15:22,720 --> 00:15:26,120 Speaker 1: You know, he has the fastest thumbs in true social 279 00:15:26,200 --> 00:15:29,200 Speaker 1: so no one can stop him. I'm highly confident that 280 00:15:29,240 --> 00:15:32,040 Speaker 1: his lawyers would just prefer him not to be attacking 281 00:15:32,480 --> 00:15:39,080 Speaker 1: prosecutors and judges and ultimately probably jury members. The one 282 00:15:39,120 --> 00:15:41,040 Speaker 1: thing we're kind of missing is that you know, there 283 00:15:41,040 --> 00:15:44,320 Speaker 1: were twenty four people on this grand jury who made 284 00:15:44,320 --> 00:15:47,760 Speaker 1: this decision. It wasn't the prosecutor that made the decision. 285 00:15:47,800 --> 00:15:51,160 Speaker 1: The grand jury made the decision. And and and I 286 00:15:51,200 --> 00:15:53,520 Speaker 1: think at some point in time, Donald Trump's got to 287 00:15:53,520 --> 00:15:55,320 Speaker 1: realize he's gonna have a jury of his peers in 288 00:15:55,400 --> 00:15:59,000 Speaker 1: New York who're gonna sit on his trial and watch 289 00:15:59,120 --> 00:16:03,400 Speaker 1: everything he does. It can't be missed. And so you 290 00:16:03,480 --> 00:16:05,840 Speaker 1: wonder if this is our little counterproductive at this hour. 291 00:16:06,720 --> 00:16:10,240 Speaker 1: You're listening to The Bloomberg Sound on podcast. Catch us 292 00:16:10,280 --> 00:16:13,440 Speaker 1: live weekdays at one Eastern on Bloomberg dot com, the 293 00:16:13,520 --> 00:16:16,200 Speaker 1: I Heart Radio app, and the Bloomberg Business App. We're 294 00:16:16,200 --> 00:16:20,640 Speaker 1: listening on demand wherever you get your podcast. Kaylee and 295 00:16:20,800 --> 00:16:23,280 Speaker 1: June are going to stay with us here as we 296 00:16:23,400 --> 00:16:27,280 Speaker 1: bring in Nick Ackerman, the former Watergate prosecutor, as part 297 00:16:27,320 --> 00:16:29,800 Speaker 1: of our conversation for a little more perspective, because we 298 00:16:29,840 --> 00:16:32,080 Speaker 1: really need it now. Nick, thank you for joining us here. 299 00:16:32,920 --> 00:16:35,920 Speaker 1: This is historic, the first indictment of a former president. 300 00:16:35,960 --> 00:16:37,680 Speaker 1: With what you know so far, and we're about to 301 00:16:37,720 --> 00:16:40,560 Speaker 1: learn a lot more about the charges. Does this feel 302 00:16:40,560 --> 00:16:44,480 Speaker 1: like the case that rises to that level to make history, Well, 303 00:16:44,520 --> 00:16:47,240 Speaker 1: it certainly does if you combine it with everything else 304 00:16:47,320 --> 00:16:51,240 Speaker 1: that's being looked at. I mean, the two cases, one 305 00:16:51,320 --> 00:16:54,720 Speaker 1: in DC and one in Georgia relate to Donald Trump 306 00:16:54,760 --> 00:16:57,320 Speaker 1: trying to maintain his hold on power and stay in 307 00:16:57,400 --> 00:17:02,760 Speaker 1: office by using the to the election was rigged. In 308 00:17:02,760 --> 00:17:07,200 Speaker 1: this case, at least part of it relates to two 309 00:17:07,280 --> 00:17:12,000 Speaker 1: Thy sixteen, his first election, when he didn't disclose to 310 00:17:12,119 --> 00:17:15,520 Speaker 1: voters that he was paying off women to keep their 311 00:17:15,520 --> 00:17:20,080 Speaker 1: stories from being reported in the National Inquirer. So, in 312 00:17:20,080 --> 00:17:24,720 Speaker 1: a sense, he was defrauding the public in his first election, 313 00:17:24,840 --> 00:17:27,439 Speaker 1: and then he was defrauding the public and the second 314 00:17:27,440 --> 00:17:30,119 Speaker 1: election when he tried to keep himself in power. So 315 00:17:30,160 --> 00:17:33,840 Speaker 1: in a way they're both related well. And of course, 316 00:17:33,880 --> 00:17:36,679 Speaker 1: in this particular case, as we await the exact charges 317 00:17:36,720 --> 00:17:38,800 Speaker 1: to be unveiled, we know that there is one witness 318 00:17:38,800 --> 00:17:40,879 Speaker 1: in particular, who has already gotten a lot of attention, 319 00:17:40,960 --> 00:17:45,240 Speaker 1: already has done jail time in relation to these payments 320 00:17:45,320 --> 00:17:49,000 Speaker 1: that were allegedly made, Michael Cohen. Is he a reliable 321 00:17:49,040 --> 00:17:51,800 Speaker 1: witness or is he problematic in this case for the 322 00:17:51,840 --> 00:17:56,080 Speaker 1: prosecutors I don't see him being problematic at all. I mean, 323 00:17:56,119 --> 00:18:01,160 Speaker 1: he's a typical accomplice witness. He's played guilty. He's essentially 324 00:18:01,240 --> 00:18:04,600 Speaker 1: was involved in the same crime that Trump is charged with. 325 00:18:05,359 --> 00:18:08,240 Speaker 1: He's got a witness, a prime witness, who's going to 326 00:18:08,320 --> 00:18:11,479 Speaker 1: corroborate him right down the line, which is David Pecker. 327 00:18:12,240 --> 00:18:14,720 Speaker 1: There are going to be documents, lots of check signed 328 00:18:14,720 --> 00:18:18,520 Speaker 1: by Donald Trump. There's a tape between Michael Cohen and 329 00:18:18,600 --> 00:18:24,959 Speaker 1: Donald Trump where the payment to the other person was discussed. 330 00:18:26,000 --> 00:18:28,560 Speaker 1: So there's a lot of corroboration. And I think there's 331 00:18:28,560 --> 00:18:31,840 Speaker 1: a lot of other witnesses they have that also corroborate 332 00:18:31,880 --> 00:18:35,440 Speaker 1: what Michael Cohen and David Pecker say. So it's not 333 00:18:35,480 --> 00:18:39,280 Speaker 1: just a one witness case. It's it's much more than that. 334 00:18:39,440 --> 00:18:43,040 Speaker 1: And with all that corroboration, I think it makes for 335 00:18:43,080 --> 00:18:47,119 Speaker 1: a pretty strong case. So, Nick, we've heard the defense attorney, 336 00:18:47,240 --> 00:18:50,040 Speaker 1: Joe Takapinas say that they are going to be aggressive 337 00:18:50,160 --> 00:18:53,639 Speaker 1: filing motions. What kind of motions do you think they'll 338 00:18:53,760 --> 00:18:57,639 Speaker 1: file right away? And will they be on other separate 339 00:18:57,680 --> 00:18:59,720 Speaker 1: motions If you want to have one motion to dismiss 340 00:18:59,720 --> 00:19:01,639 Speaker 1: based on this, another based on that, or will they 341 00:19:01,680 --> 00:19:06,119 Speaker 1: all be in one giant package. Well, normally it's in 342 00:19:06,160 --> 00:19:10,720 Speaker 1: one giant package with each motion listed off separately. Certainly, 343 00:19:11,119 --> 00:19:12,919 Speaker 1: it sounds like they're going to try and move to 344 00:19:12,960 --> 00:19:17,160 Speaker 1: have it dismissed based on the statute of limitations. They're 345 00:19:17,200 --> 00:19:20,760 Speaker 1: going to you know, it's so hard to tell without 346 00:19:20,800 --> 00:19:26,320 Speaker 1: knowing what the charges are, but they'll be attacks on 347 00:19:26,359 --> 00:19:29,480 Speaker 1: the substantive crimes themselves as to whether or not they're 348 00:19:29,560 --> 00:19:35,240 Speaker 1: legally viable. Possibly they're going to ask for more particulars, 349 00:19:35,280 --> 00:19:38,800 Speaker 1: although I have a feeling that this indictment is going 350 00:19:38,880 --> 00:19:42,600 Speaker 1: to be very specific with lots of details. I mean, 351 00:19:42,720 --> 00:19:47,400 Speaker 1: it's normal practice in cases like this that defense lawyers, 352 00:19:47,800 --> 00:19:51,480 Speaker 1: in fact like myself, make lots of motions. A lot 353 00:19:51,520 --> 00:19:55,440 Speaker 1: of times they're really not much substance to them, and 354 00:19:55,680 --> 00:19:57,399 Speaker 1: there's not going to be any way to really know 355 00:19:57,560 --> 00:20:00,720 Speaker 1: that until we see what the indictments says and what 356 00:20:00,800 --> 00:20:05,280 Speaker 1: their motions are. Nick the judge ruled no cameras allowed 357 00:20:05,320 --> 00:20:09,399 Speaker 1: in the courtroom. Was that the right decision? Normally I 358 00:20:09,440 --> 00:20:12,560 Speaker 1: would say yes, but in this case I think it's 359 00:20:12,600 --> 00:20:16,480 Speaker 1: really important that they did allow a camera in for 360 00:20:16,520 --> 00:20:20,840 Speaker 1: this arrangement. The problem is here that Donald Trump is 361 00:20:20,920 --> 00:20:24,520 Speaker 1: trying to portray this in a completely different way by 362 00:20:24,680 --> 00:20:27,280 Speaker 1: bringing in a whole retinue of people with him and 363 00:20:27,720 --> 00:20:31,800 Speaker 1: flying into the airport and having all these cars follow 364 00:20:31,840 --> 00:20:34,080 Speaker 1: him out to the courthouse and then follow him back. 365 00:20:35,119 --> 00:20:37,680 Speaker 1: I think what the reason he did not want a 366 00:20:37,720 --> 00:20:40,600 Speaker 1: camera in the courtroom was because he would not be 367 00:20:40,640 --> 00:20:45,160 Speaker 1: controlling the situation. The judge would be sitting on the bench, 368 00:20:45,240 --> 00:20:48,919 Speaker 1: which would be above the defendant and the lawyers. I 369 00:20:48,960 --> 00:20:53,120 Speaker 1: would really be controlling the entire situation. Donald Trump would 370 00:20:53,160 --> 00:20:55,919 Speaker 1: not be in his usual position where he can bully 371 00:20:56,040 --> 00:20:59,560 Speaker 1: people or make other statements. The only statement he's going 372 00:20:59,600 --> 00:21:03,000 Speaker 1: to be made is not guilty in response to the 373 00:21:03,080 --> 00:21:06,880 Speaker 1: judge's question. And I think what he was concerned about 374 00:21:07,080 --> 00:21:10,880 Speaker 1: was looking like any other criminal defendant who shows up 375 00:21:10,960 --> 00:21:14,520 Speaker 1: an arrayment, which she's going to look like. And he 376 00:21:14,600 --> 00:21:18,080 Speaker 1: was talking before about actually using the footage of his 377 00:21:18,200 --> 00:21:20,439 Speaker 1: going into the courthouse coming out of the courthouse for 378 00:21:20,520 --> 00:21:23,560 Speaker 1: his campaign, But he certainly wouldn't be able to use 379 00:21:23,600 --> 00:21:27,880 Speaker 1: any footage of what would be taken inside during the arrayment, 380 00:21:28,520 --> 00:21:31,960 Speaker 1: since again, he would be in a completely different situation 381 00:21:32,720 --> 00:21:36,359 Speaker 1: which would not make him look very favorable. Well, you 382 00:21:36,400 --> 00:21:39,400 Speaker 1: mentioned his campaign, Nick, and it just reminds us all 383 00:21:39,400 --> 00:21:42,480 Speaker 1: that there is this kind of looming deadline, if you will, 384 00:21:42,480 --> 00:21:45,080 Speaker 1: of November twenty twenty four, when he would like to 385 00:21:45,119 --> 00:21:48,120 Speaker 1: see himself elected president again. So to your earlier point 386 00:21:48,160 --> 00:21:51,360 Speaker 1: about the motions that could potentially be fired filed, how 387 00:21:51,440 --> 00:21:55,399 Speaker 1: long could this stretch out considering we have an election coming, 388 00:21:55,440 --> 00:21:59,320 Speaker 1: What does the timeline realistically look like. I think somewhere 389 00:21:59,359 --> 00:22:02,720 Speaker 1: within the year. Um, it's not that hard. Um. If 390 00:22:02,720 --> 00:22:06,560 Speaker 1: I were the prosecutor, I would immediately turn over all 391 00:22:06,560 --> 00:22:09,439 Speaker 1: the discovery as to judge for a you know, a 392 00:22:09,480 --> 00:22:12,600 Speaker 1: trial date in two months and try and be as 393 00:22:12,600 --> 00:22:16,680 Speaker 1: aggressive as possible in pushing this to trial. Um. Probably 394 00:22:16,720 --> 00:22:20,440 Speaker 1: wouldn't work, but it certainly would, you know, get everybody 395 00:22:20,480 --> 00:22:23,040 Speaker 1: off the dime and start this thing down the road 396 00:22:23,080 --> 00:22:26,080 Speaker 1: to trial. I mean, there's just not that much to 397 00:22:26,240 --> 00:22:31,280 Speaker 1: do if the defendants. Defendant is forced to work hard 398 00:22:31,359 --> 00:22:34,840 Speaker 1: put in his motions, given thirty days to do that, 399 00:22:35,600 --> 00:22:38,920 Speaker 1: the defend, the district Attorney's office thirty days to respond, 400 00:22:39,960 --> 00:22:42,440 Speaker 1: and then get this ready for trial. I just don't 401 00:22:42,480 --> 00:22:44,800 Speaker 1: think it. I mean, it depends on what the indictment says. 402 00:22:44,840 --> 00:22:47,679 Speaker 1: We'll have to look at that how complicated it is 403 00:22:48,000 --> 00:22:52,920 Speaker 1: and how much the scope is beyond the David Pecker 404 00:22:53,560 --> 00:22:58,679 Speaker 1: Um Donald Trump's scheme to catch and kill um stories 405 00:22:58,720 --> 00:23:02,679 Speaker 1: that were not laddering to Donald Trump from appearing in 406 00:23:02,720 --> 00:23:08,720 Speaker 1: the National Enquirer. So, in addition to the Georgia investigation, 407 00:23:08,800 --> 00:23:10,680 Speaker 1: which we don't know if there'll be an indictment or not, 408 00:23:10,880 --> 00:23:15,240 Speaker 1: and the special counsels to investigations, Donald Trump is going 409 00:23:15,280 --> 00:23:18,080 Speaker 1: to be on trial in a few weeks in Manhattan 410 00:23:18,680 --> 00:23:21,840 Speaker 1: in the case of the ee Gene Carol, the defamation case, 411 00:23:21,920 --> 00:23:26,040 Speaker 1: and then in October the New York Attorney General's case comes. 412 00:23:26,359 --> 00:23:29,359 Speaker 1: And I understand that the defense, one of the defense 413 00:23:29,520 --> 00:23:31,600 Speaker 1: is going to be, well, he can't get a fair 414 00:23:31,640 --> 00:23:35,679 Speaker 1: trial here, and so much will be known by that time. 415 00:23:36,320 --> 00:23:39,199 Speaker 1: Do you think the judge would ever allow them a 416 00:23:39,320 --> 00:23:43,439 Speaker 1: change of venue. I just don't see it, because the 417 00:23:43,520 --> 00:23:46,160 Speaker 1: change of venue would be in New York State. I mean, 418 00:23:46,160 --> 00:23:48,879 Speaker 1: it really wouldn't make any difference. You could always pick 419 00:23:49,480 --> 00:23:54,320 Speaker 1: a impartial jury wherever you are, just by simply asking 420 00:23:54,320 --> 00:23:56,760 Speaker 1: the right questions of the jury and doing the proper 421 00:23:57,600 --> 00:24:00,840 Speaker 1: voidier as it's called to make or that the jury 422 00:24:00,880 --> 00:24:04,399 Speaker 1: panel can be fair and impartial. The case that really 423 00:24:04,480 --> 00:24:08,679 Speaker 1: poses him major problems is this case that's pending right 424 00:24:08,720 --> 00:24:11,280 Speaker 1: down the street at the Southern District of New York, 425 00:24:11,560 --> 00:24:15,919 Speaker 1: where the judge has already ruled that not only can 426 00:24:16,640 --> 00:24:19,280 Speaker 1: Gene Carroll going to testify, but she's allowed to put 427 00:24:19,320 --> 00:24:23,280 Speaker 1: on two other witnesses that were sexually assaulted by Donald Trump. 428 00:24:23,480 --> 00:24:25,919 Speaker 1: So he's going to have to take the witness stand 429 00:24:25,920 --> 00:24:30,880 Speaker 1: there to defend himself if he asserts the Fifth Amendment privilege, 430 00:24:31,040 --> 00:24:34,199 Speaker 1: that'll be used against him. So he's really between a 431 00:24:34,280 --> 00:24:36,359 Speaker 1: rock and a hard place on that case. And we'll 432 00:24:36,400 --> 00:24:40,040 Speaker 1: get a verdict from a jury, you know, probably in 433 00:24:40,119 --> 00:24:43,120 Speaker 1: May on whether or not he defamed her and whether 434 00:24:43,200 --> 00:24:47,560 Speaker 1: or not he raped her. Wow in May. With that said, 435 00:24:47,720 --> 00:24:51,520 Speaker 1: we're spending time with Nick Ackerman, former Watergate prosecutor. Nick. 436 00:24:51,560 --> 00:24:53,119 Speaker 1: As we go a couple months down the road, you 437 00:24:53,160 --> 00:24:55,760 Speaker 1: consider that case, You consider what the special counsel is 438 00:24:55,800 --> 00:24:58,080 Speaker 1: investigating here in Washington, and then of course the Fulton 439 00:24:58,080 --> 00:25:02,919 Speaker 1: County grand jury. If all of those indictments arrive and 440 00:25:03,000 --> 00:25:05,639 Speaker 1: he's facing say three or three of them as a 441 00:25:06,240 --> 00:25:09,560 Speaker 1: former president, do we look back on this day differently? 442 00:25:09,600 --> 00:25:14,040 Speaker 1: Will this seem like it was somehow unjustified considering just 443 00:25:14,080 --> 00:25:17,800 Speaker 1: the scope and the severity of those other cases where 444 00:25:17,800 --> 00:25:22,120 Speaker 1: you're actually talking about an insurrection. Yeah, you are. But 445 00:25:22,200 --> 00:25:26,200 Speaker 1: like I said before, it's really kind of the sort 446 00:25:26,200 --> 00:25:29,119 Speaker 1: of the book end of what he did in both 447 00:25:29,280 --> 00:25:33,680 Speaker 1: presidential elections, the first being lying to the public to 448 00:25:33,760 --> 00:25:37,199 Speaker 1: keep them from learning the truth about Stormy Daniels and 449 00:25:37,280 --> 00:25:40,320 Speaker 1: Carol McDougall, and the fact that he was paying him 450 00:25:40,359 --> 00:25:42,520 Speaker 1: off money to keep their stories out of the National 451 00:25:42,640 --> 00:25:46,840 Speaker 1: Enquirer so he could win election, and then the big 452 00:25:46,920 --> 00:25:52,320 Speaker 1: lie that fueled the insurrection on January sixth. So no, 453 00:25:52,480 --> 00:25:56,080 Speaker 1: I think they all fit together pretty well with respect 454 00:25:56,080 --> 00:26:00,399 Speaker 1: to Donald Trump's actions, character and what he is going 455 00:26:00,440 --> 00:26:03,000 Speaker 1: to be charged with in all of these cases except 456 00:26:03,040 --> 00:26:07,119 Speaker 1: for obviously the one on classified documents. And yet in 457 00:26:07,160 --> 00:26:10,080 Speaker 1: any of these cases, could we actually see him barred 458 00:26:10,160 --> 00:26:13,160 Speaker 1: from running for president again? I mean, is there any 459 00:26:13,240 --> 00:26:17,520 Speaker 1: legal scenario in which he cannot reassume the highest office 460 00:26:17,520 --> 00:26:21,440 Speaker 1: in this country? Now? The only constitutional requirement to run 461 00:26:21,480 --> 00:26:24,320 Speaker 1: for president is that you be thirty five years old 462 00:26:24,400 --> 00:26:26,640 Speaker 1: and that you be born in the United States. Other 463 00:26:26,720 --> 00:26:30,639 Speaker 1: than that, there is nothing else out to prohibit somebody 464 00:26:30,680 --> 00:26:34,040 Speaker 1: from running for president. Now again, I think what we're 465 00:26:34,080 --> 00:26:37,560 Speaker 1: going to see is as these indictments come down, more 466 00:26:37,600 --> 00:26:40,800 Speaker 1: and more of the Republicans who are running for president 467 00:26:40,880 --> 00:26:43,760 Speaker 1: and start announcing for president are going to be a 468 00:26:43,800 --> 00:26:47,280 Speaker 1: bit more embolded in taking Donald Trump on. And keep 469 00:26:47,280 --> 00:26:51,800 Speaker 1: in mind that these indictments are not a positive resume 470 00:26:51,880 --> 00:26:55,399 Speaker 1: builder for someone running for president. It's not going to 471 00:26:55,480 --> 00:26:59,040 Speaker 1: increase his base of support. It's not going to appeal 472 00:26:59,080 --> 00:27:01,760 Speaker 1: to independent it's not going to appeal to people in 473 00:27:01,800 --> 00:27:06,920 Speaker 1: the suburbs. Politics is about expanding your base, reaching out 474 00:27:06,960 --> 00:27:10,040 Speaker 1: to other groups, and this is going to do just 475 00:27:10,080 --> 00:27:16,080 Speaker 1: the opposite. So, Nick, Donald Trump is known for, you know, 476 00:27:16,320 --> 00:27:20,800 Speaker 1: complaining about judges, Supreme Court judges, Ninth Circuit judges. Now 477 00:27:20,880 --> 00:27:25,840 Speaker 1: he's complaining about this judge and saying that he's you know, biased, 478 00:27:25,840 --> 00:27:30,000 Speaker 1: that he hates me. He also has talked about the 479 00:27:30,040 --> 00:27:34,439 Speaker 1: district attorney and the district attorney's wife. What does that 480 00:27:34,560 --> 00:27:38,280 Speaker 1: all do to the atmosphere at trial, or at least 481 00:27:38,280 --> 00:27:41,919 Speaker 1: at this arrayment. Well, it may even wind up as 482 00:27:41,960 --> 00:27:45,439 Speaker 1: a charge in the indictment. I mean, for example, that 483 00:27:45,720 --> 00:27:49,320 Speaker 1: picture he put up with himself holding a baseball bat 484 00:27:49,320 --> 00:27:53,639 Speaker 1: with the district attorney may wind up being the basis 485 00:27:53,720 --> 00:27:56,520 Speaker 1: for a charge of trying to interfere with the administration 486 00:27:56,560 --> 00:28:00,359 Speaker 1: of justice by threatening the district attorney. Out of this 487 00:28:00,440 --> 00:28:03,920 Speaker 1: stuff can basically be turned around on him, and the 488 00:28:03,960 --> 00:28:07,239 Speaker 1: bottom line is it's not real helpful at least in 489 00:28:07,359 --> 00:28:12,080 Speaker 1: terms of defending his case. Did lawyers not have control 490 00:28:12,119 --> 00:28:14,320 Speaker 1: over him at this point to tell him at least 491 00:28:14,359 --> 00:28:18,879 Speaker 1: stop talking about the judge that may eventually be sentencing you. 492 00:28:20,240 --> 00:28:23,640 Speaker 1: They clearly don't. I mean, he has never basically been 493 00:28:23,640 --> 00:28:26,600 Speaker 1: controlled by any of the lawyers that he's hired. He 494 00:28:26,720 --> 00:28:30,119 Speaker 1: has in since the chief lawyer, the chief strategist, and 495 00:28:30,160 --> 00:28:33,760 Speaker 1: it's pretty obvious straight through ever since the Muller probe 496 00:28:33,880 --> 00:28:36,600 Speaker 1: that he is the person who is calling the shots, 497 00:28:36,840 --> 00:28:41,960 Speaker 1: not the lawyers. Nick. I'm looking at Donald Trump's truth 498 00:28:42,120 --> 00:28:45,760 Speaker 1: social page here. Right before he left Trump Tower, he 499 00:28:45,800 --> 00:28:47,960 Speaker 1: sent out a message, he says, heading the Lower Manhattan 500 00:28:47,960 --> 00:28:51,320 Speaker 1: the courthouse seems so surreal. Wow, They're going to arrest me. 501 00:28:51,640 --> 00:28:54,680 Speaker 1: Can't believe this is happening in America. If he actually 502 00:28:54,720 --> 00:28:58,040 Speaker 1: shows remorse, if he shows some concern about his own 503 00:28:58,520 --> 00:29:01,120 Speaker 1: place in the universe, will it help him in this 504 00:29:01,240 --> 00:29:04,520 Speaker 1: trial or no, it's not going to help with the 505 00:29:04,560 --> 00:29:07,320 Speaker 1: facts I mean, it might help him on sentencing, But 506 00:29:07,400 --> 00:29:09,800 Speaker 1: the facts are the facts, and the evidence is what 507 00:29:09,920 --> 00:29:13,280 Speaker 1: it is, and based on what we know just about 508 00:29:13,320 --> 00:29:17,000 Speaker 1: the limited piece that everybody's been talking about, I mean, 509 00:29:17,040 --> 00:29:20,480 Speaker 1: this is pretty much a pretty strong case. I mean, 510 00:29:20,480 --> 00:29:22,880 Speaker 1: you've got a number of witnesses saying the same thing, 511 00:29:22,920 --> 00:29:25,080 Speaker 1: You've got documents backing them up, and you've got a 512 00:29:25,120 --> 00:29:28,480 Speaker 1: tape recording in Donald Trump's own words when they're with 513 00:29:28,760 --> 00:29:32,800 Speaker 1: him and Michael Cohen talking about the payment to Karen McDougall. 514 00:29:32,920 --> 00:29:39,280 Speaker 1: So it's kind of a pretty straightforward case. Nick. We've 515 00:29:39,320 --> 00:29:42,920 Speaker 1: talked at length now about what this case, this indictment, 516 00:29:42,920 --> 00:29:46,120 Speaker 1: these charges will mean for former President Trump's reputation, but 517 00:29:46,160 --> 00:29:50,280 Speaker 1: there's also the question of the broader reputation of American democracy. 518 00:29:50,360 --> 00:29:54,640 Speaker 1: To see a former president arrested, especially given how close 519 00:29:54,720 --> 00:29:58,800 Speaker 1: you were to Watergate, knowing the aftermath of that. How 520 00:29:58,800 --> 00:30:03,040 Speaker 1: do you anticipate this reads around the world. Well, I 521 00:30:03,040 --> 00:30:07,160 Speaker 1: think this reads that we actually stick by our rule 522 00:30:07,240 --> 00:30:09,680 Speaker 1: of law or system that is governed by the rule 523 00:30:09,720 --> 00:30:12,600 Speaker 1: of law, that no one person is above the law. 524 00:30:12,600 --> 00:30:15,040 Speaker 1: If they commit a crime, they're going to be prosecuted 525 00:30:15,080 --> 00:30:18,880 Speaker 1: and made accountable for the crime. That they commit. A 526 00:30:18,920 --> 00:30:21,720 Speaker 1: lot of this hoop law that's surrounding this right now 527 00:30:21,800 --> 00:30:28,000 Speaker 1: wouldn't exist if President Ford hadn't pardoned Richard Nixon, Right, 528 00:30:28,440 --> 00:30:30,920 Speaker 1: Richard Nixon would have been prosecuted for a whole series 529 00:30:30,960 --> 00:30:35,720 Speaker 1: of crimes relating to the Watergate cover up, his taxes 530 00:30:36,720 --> 00:30:40,840 Speaker 1: and other items. Possibly, so this all would have played 531 00:30:40,880 --> 00:30:45,840 Speaker 1: out some fifty years ago, making this not a first 532 00:30:45,880 --> 00:30:50,720 Speaker 1: time event. So I think it's important that you know, we, 533 00:30:50,880 --> 00:30:55,120 Speaker 1: like other democracies who have prosecuted their presidents, like South 534 00:30:55,240 --> 00:30:59,640 Speaker 1: Korea and others, that we stick by the rule of 535 00:30:59,720 --> 00:31:03,320 Speaker 1: law and let this all play out in the proper 536 00:31:03,400 --> 00:31:09,040 Speaker 1: way through our justice system. Nick the Republicans, the leaders 537 00:31:09,120 --> 00:31:12,840 Speaker 1: of three the chairs of three committees, have been on 538 00:31:12,880 --> 00:31:15,880 Speaker 1: the attack against Alvin Bragg, saying this is a politically 539 00:31:15,920 --> 00:31:20,520 Speaker 1: motivated prosecution. I believe today Jim Jordan's said that he 540 00:31:20,600 --> 00:31:24,920 Speaker 1: might serve a subpoena on Bragg. What do you think 541 00:31:24,920 --> 00:31:27,280 Speaker 1: that they'll be doing the same things if there are 542 00:31:27,480 --> 00:31:31,600 Speaker 1: other indictments, let's say, from the Special Council, And where 543 00:31:31,640 --> 00:31:36,640 Speaker 1: will those investigations end up. They'll end up nowhere. Basically, 544 00:31:37,680 --> 00:31:42,400 Speaker 1: there's no way that Congress can interfere in an ongoing investigation, 545 00:31:43,080 --> 00:31:47,000 Speaker 1: criminal matter, a criminal trial. What they're doing is they're 546 00:31:47,040 --> 00:31:49,840 Speaker 1: setting themselves up for their own indictment for obstruction of 547 00:31:49,960 --> 00:31:55,360 Speaker 1: justice and basically interfering in the criminal justice system. This 548 00:31:55,520 --> 00:32:00,400 Speaker 1: is not something that they should take lightly, and they 549 00:32:00,400 --> 00:32:03,240 Speaker 1: could wind up getting themselves in trouble. And June Jordan 550 00:32:03,320 --> 00:32:08,200 Speaker 1: is a lawyer. That may be, but I don't know. 551 00:32:08,240 --> 00:32:10,000 Speaker 1: If he's a lawyer, I think, well, he went to 552 00:32:10,080 --> 00:32:11,680 Speaker 1: law school, let's put it that way. Head of the 553 00:32:11,760 --> 00:32:14,720 Speaker 1: Judiciary Committee, don't you think he would know these things? 554 00:32:15,960 --> 00:32:18,080 Speaker 1: One would think, but you would think you'd know a 555 00:32:18,120 --> 00:32:20,080 Speaker 1: lot of things. So I don't know what to how 556 00:32:20,080 --> 00:32:23,720 Speaker 1: to answer that exactly, but they certainly should know better, 557 00:32:23,880 --> 00:32:27,400 Speaker 1: that's for certain, Nick Ackerman, We appreciate the time in 558 00:32:27,440 --> 00:32:29,880 Speaker 1: the perspective of perfect conversation for this day as we 559 00:32:29,920 --> 00:32:33,000 Speaker 1: wait for details. Here former Watergate prosecutor with us here 560 00:32:33,000 --> 00:32:36,480 Speaker 1: on Bloomberg sound On. I'm Joe Matthew in Washington, along 561 00:32:36,480 --> 00:32:39,640 Speaker 1: with Kaylee Lines and June Grosso of Bloomberg Law Is 562 00:32:39,640 --> 00:32:43,840 Speaker 1: in New York. You're listening to the Bloomberg sound On podcast. 563 00:32:44,240 --> 00:32:47,800 Speaker 1: Catch us live weekdays at one Eastern on Bloomberg dot Com, 564 00:32:47,840 --> 00:32:50,360 Speaker 1: the I Heart Radio app, and the Bloomberg Business app. 565 00:32:50,480 --> 00:32:54,680 Speaker 1: We're listening on demand wherever you get your podcasts. Let's 566 00:32:54,720 --> 00:32:59,000 Speaker 1: add another voice, potentially to this conversation, Joe, as we 567 00:32:59,040 --> 00:33:02,520 Speaker 1: were talking about the legal ramifications here, Jimmy Grula. He 568 00:33:02,600 --> 00:33:05,520 Speaker 1: is former federal prosecutor and current law professor at Notre 569 00:33:05,600 --> 00:33:09,040 Speaker 1: Dame Law School. So, professor, thank you so much for 570 00:33:09,360 --> 00:33:12,640 Speaker 1: being with us as we await the specifics on these charges. 571 00:33:12,680 --> 00:33:16,600 Speaker 1: We were just speaking with Nick Ackerman, a former Watergate prosecutor, 572 00:33:16,640 --> 00:33:20,040 Speaker 1: who he said, from what he believes, this seems like 573 00:33:20,080 --> 00:33:22,720 Speaker 1: a pretty strong case that has been brought. What is 574 00:33:22,760 --> 00:33:25,280 Speaker 1: your assessment at this time? Well, I think it's a 575 00:33:25,320 --> 00:33:29,120 Speaker 1: little premature to start making judgments about the strength of 576 00:33:29,200 --> 00:33:32,640 Speaker 1: the weakness of the case without having even seen or 577 00:33:32,680 --> 00:33:36,480 Speaker 1: having the indictment released, you know, made public. So I 578 00:33:36,480 --> 00:33:38,640 Speaker 1: think it's premature. So I think I think everybody used 579 00:33:38,640 --> 00:33:41,080 Speaker 1: to kind of keep their part their powder dry at 580 00:33:41,120 --> 00:33:44,440 Speaker 1: this point. One concern that I have is this if 581 00:33:44,440 --> 00:33:46,680 Speaker 1: it turns out, well, I have two concerns. So one, 582 00:33:46,680 --> 00:33:49,520 Speaker 1: it's really interesting, you know, there's been discussions about the 583 00:33:49,640 --> 00:33:53,360 Speaker 1: number of counts that this indictment is going to include, 584 00:33:53,720 --> 00:33:56,400 Speaker 1: and if it does include, you know, thirty thirty two, 585 00:33:56,640 --> 00:34:01,080 Speaker 1: you know, plus accounts. As some have stated, it strikes 586 00:34:01,120 --> 00:34:04,320 Speaker 1: me that all of those counts can be related simply 587 00:34:04,360 --> 00:34:07,360 Speaker 1: to Stormy Daniels and the hush money payments and the 588 00:34:08,719 --> 00:34:12,520 Speaker 1: cover up of these payments. And so I wonder if 589 00:34:12,520 --> 00:34:19,600 Speaker 1: their additional additional conduct of criminality beyond Stormy Daniels that's 590 00:34:19,600 --> 00:34:22,920 Speaker 1: included in these thirty plus counts, if it turns out 591 00:34:22,960 --> 00:34:25,880 Speaker 1: to be an indictment, that it is of such length. 592 00:34:26,040 --> 00:34:28,200 Speaker 1: And then the second question that I have is that 593 00:34:28,600 --> 00:34:31,880 Speaker 1: with respect to Stormy Daniels, you know, is the is 594 00:34:31,920 --> 00:34:34,560 Speaker 1: the key witness, is the government's key witness, you know, 595 00:34:34,640 --> 00:34:38,160 Speaker 1: Michael Cohen. I mean, if he's the key witness, and 596 00:34:38,280 --> 00:34:41,200 Speaker 1: I was a prosecutor for nine years, you know, he's 597 00:34:41,280 --> 00:34:44,080 Speaker 1: got a lot of baggage, and he's going to be 598 00:34:44,239 --> 00:34:47,640 Speaker 1: impeached on multiple levels. I mean, first, he's he's a 599 00:34:47,680 --> 00:34:54,600 Speaker 1: convicted felon, and is felony charges involve tax evasion, you know, 600 00:34:54,680 --> 00:34:59,799 Speaker 1: tax fraud, crime of dishonesty, false statements to a bank 601 00:35:00,040 --> 00:35:04,000 Speaker 1: federal bank officials. That's a crime involving you know, dishonesty, 602 00:35:04,080 --> 00:35:08,040 Speaker 1: false statements and bias, or there is going to be 603 00:35:08,040 --> 00:35:11,280 Speaker 1: impeached on bias. I mean, he's made many public statements 604 00:35:11,280 --> 00:35:16,160 Speaker 1: and in the media and during interviews criticizing Trump, and 605 00:35:16,440 --> 00:35:18,839 Speaker 1: it's pretty clear that he has no love lost, you know, 606 00:35:18,920 --> 00:35:22,160 Speaker 1: for former President Trump. And so I'm hoping that if 607 00:35:22,200 --> 00:35:24,560 Speaker 1: he's the central key witness, you know, there better be 608 00:35:24,719 --> 00:35:28,560 Speaker 1: some independent, corroborating evidence in the form of documents and 609 00:35:28,640 --> 00:35:31,480 Speaker 1: other evidence to support what he has to say. If 610 00:35:31,480 --> 00:35:35,440 Speaker 1: there is not, Jimmy, does that inform the other cases? 611 00:35:35,480 --> 00:35:38,759 Speaker 1: Does it water down what the Special Council could potentially 612 00:35:38,760 --> 00:35:41,240 Speaker 1: come out with or the Fulton County grand jury. Well, 613 00:35:41,239 --> 00:35:44,720 Speaker 1: not necessarily, because those those are different, you know, different issues, 614 00:35:44,719 --> 00:35:48,239 Speaker 1: they involve different criminal activity. You know, Fulton County, you 615 00:35:48,320 --> 00:35:52,280 Speaker 1: have President former President Trump's own words in the tape 616 00:35:52,280 --> 00:35:55,839 Speaker 1: recorded telephone conversation, and so they don't rise or fall. 617 00:35:55,920 --> 00:35:57,840 Speaker 1: And I don't know that this case is either, but 618 00:35:58,160 --> 00:36:01,640 Speaker 1: at least it appears at this point that Michael Cohen 619 00:36:01,760 --> 00:36:03,759 Speaker 1: is going to be a key critical witness. He's not 620 00:36:03,800 --> 00:36:05,919 Speaker 1: going to be a key critical witness in the full 621 00:36:06,080 --> 00:36:08,160 Speaker 1: County case. He's not going to be a critical witness 622 00:36:08,239 --> 00:36:11,880 Speaker 1: or probably not a witness at all involving the January sixth, 623 00:36:12,160 --> 00:36:17,520 Speaker 1: you know, insurrection case, the mishandling of classified documents. You know, 624 00:36:17,520 --> 00:36:19,000 Speaker 1: he's not going to be a key witness in any 625 00:36:19,000 --> 00:36:22,440 Speaker 1: of those cases. So those are all very different cases, 626 00:36:22,520 --> 00:36:27,600 Speaker 1: different evidence, different witnesses. This one troubles me if it 627 00:36:27,680 --> 00:36:32,320 Speaker 1: really is going to, you know, center on Michael Cohen. So, Jimmy, 628 00:36:33,000 --> 00:36:36,200 Speaker 1: as you mentioned, there's the Atlanta case, There's the Federal 629 00:36:36,880 --> 00:36:41,560 Speaker 1: Special Council's case. Two cases actually there. So if charge, 630 00:36:41,600 --> 00:36:44,319 Speaker 1: if indictments are brought in both those and then you 631 00:36:44,400 --> 00:36:48,080 Speaker 1: have this case plus some of the civil cases, how 632 00:36:48,120 --> 00:36:52,080 Speaker 1: will it be arranged, How will the various trials and 633 00:36:52,200 --> 00:36:59,320 Speaker 1: timing be arranged? And will electioneering? Would campaigning be a consideration? Well, 634 00:36:59,360 --> 00:37:01,520 Speaker 1: making the mistake about it, I mean, all of this 635 00:37:01,640 --> 00:37:04,719 Speaker 1: is going to you know, if someone is expecting a 636 00:37:04,880 --> 00:37:07,719 Speaker 1: trial soon, you know that that's not going to be 637 00:37:07,719 --> 00:37:10,600 Speaker 1: the reality. I think that that even in this case alone, 638 00:37:10,600 --> 00:37:13,440 Speaker 1: if this was the only case, I suspect that that 639 00:37:13,560 --> 00:37:16,200 Speaker 1: his lawyers are going to file motion after motion after 640 00:37:16,239 --> 00:37:18,880 Speaker 1: pre trial motion to try to delay this case is 641 00:37:19,160 --> 00:37:22,160 Speaker 1: as much as possible and get it to you know, 642 00:37:22,200 --> 00:37:24,400 Speaker 1: get the trial to occur. You know, after the election. 643 00:37:24,400 --> 00:37:26,359 Speaker 1: I mean, it's possible, and it could take that long 644 00:37:26,760 --> 00:37:29,680 Speaker 1: to bring it to it to a full trial. And 645 00:37:29,719 --> 00:37:31,640 Speaker 1: then if you add on top of that, you know, 646 00:37:31,760 --> 00:37:36,080 Speaker 1: other indictments from other cases and different jurisdictions, then those 647 00:37:36,120 --> 00:37:40,000 Speaker 1: cases are going to be delayed because former President Trump 648 00:37:40,080 --> 00:37:41,720 Speaker 1: is just not simply going to be in a position 649 00:37:41,800 --> 00:37:46,840 Speaker 1: to to litigate and defend himself and multiple criminal cases simultaneously, 650 00:37:46,960 --> 00:37:49,239 Speaker 1: and so those cases are going to be delayed. So 651 00:37:49,280 --> 00:37:51,640 Speaker 1: I think we're you know, it could very well be 652 00:37:51,920 --> 00:37:55,640 Speaker 1: that that the entire arc of this, these alleged crim 653 00:37:55,840 --> 00:37:59,680 Speaker 1: criminal counts and criminal conduct is something that is going 654 00:37:59,680 --> 00:38:04,400 Speaker 1: to frandsend literally years if we see any actual verdicts 655 00:38:04,400 --> 00:38:06,960 Speaker 1: in these cases. He Jimmy, if we've got thirty twenty 656 00:38:06,960 --> 00:38:09,560 Speaker 1: thirty counts here, we know the former president went into 657 00:38:09,680 --> 00:38:12,800 Speaker 1: the courtroom less than five minutes ago. How quickly is 658 00:38:12,840 --> 00:38:17,160 Speaker 1: this going to move? Well, it depends. So his attorney 659 00:38:17,160 --> 00:38:20,680 Speaker 1: could certainly wave wave the reading of the indictment. So 660 00:38:20,760 --> 00:38:23,440 Speaker 1: I mean that's up to him. I mean, he certainly, 661 00:38:23,480 --> 00:38:26,800 Speaker 1: you know, Trump has the right to be notified of 662 00:38:26,880 --> 00:38:30,080 Speaker 1: the criminal charges against him, and that could certainly be 663 00:38:30,120 --> 00:38:33,320 Speaker 1: in the form of just reading every count line by line, 664 00:38:33,400 --> 00:38:37,000 Speaker 1: you know, word by word throughout, or his council could 665 00:38:37,120 --> 00:38:40,520 Speaker 1: waive that right, in which case, you know, the proceedings 666 00:38:40,560 --> 00:38:45,160 Speaker 1: could be much much shorter. So as we still are 667 00:38:45,160 --> 00:38:47,680 Speaker 1: awaiting and I am refreshing the page constantly to see 668 00:38:47,719 --> 00:38:52,440 Speaker 1: when these charges may be unveiled, how much room is 669 00:38:52,480 --> 00:38:55,960 Speaker 1: there based on what we know for variation within those 670 00:38:56,200 --> 00:38:59,120 Speaker 1: within those charges, could any be brought that are more serious? 671 00:38:59,680 --> 00:39:01,960 Speaker 1: Watch think so, I mean, that's why I think it's 672 00:39:01,960 --> 00:39:04,640 Speaker 1: a little like I stated, it's premature to start rendering 673 00:39:04,719 --> 00:39:06,719 Speaker 1: judgments on the strength of the weakness of the case 674 00:39:06,760 --> 00:39:09,440 Speaker 1: because we haven't even seen the charging document. And the 675 00:39:09,560 --> 00:39:14,440 Speaker 1: charging document could very well all center on Stormy Daniels 676 00:39:14,440 --> 00:39:16,400 Speaker 1: and the hush money payments. But it's difficult for me 677 00:39:16,480 --> 00:39:19,160 Speaker 1: to imagine that you're going to be able to generate, 678 00:39:19,200 --> 00:39:22,920 Speaker 1: you know, thirty plus counts out of that single course 679 00:39:22,960 --> 00:39:25,719 Speaker 1: of conduct, you know, is it possible. I suspect that 680 00:39:25,760 --> 00:39:29,000 Speaker 1: it's possible, but it's but I'm waiting to see whether 681 00:39:29,040 --> 00:39:32,520 Speaker 1: there's something else, you know, some other criminal conduct. May 682 00:39:32,600 --> 00:39:39,640 Speaker 1: there's maybe some other falsification of business records that the investigation, 683 00:39:41,000 --> 00:39:44,160 Speaker 1: the New York Investigation has uncovered that doesn't involve the 684 00:39:44,200 --> 00:39:47,760 Speaker 1: Stormy Daniels incident. Hey, Jimmy, really appreciate your time today. 685 00:39:47,760 --> 00:39:49,080 Speaker 1: Come back and talk to us when we do have 686 00:39:49,120 --> 00:39:51,920 Speaker 1: the charges. I'm dying to do this with some more information. 687 00:39:52,440 --> 00:39:55,279 Speaker 1: Jimmy Gril, a former federal prosecutor now at Notre Dame 688 00:39:55,360 --> 00:40:01,640 Speaker 1: Law School. Thanks for listening to the Sound On podcast. 689 00:40:01,760 --> 00:40:04,840 Speaker 1: Make sure to subscribe if you haven't already, at Apple, Spotify, 690 00:40:04,920 --> 00:40:07,359 Speaker 1: and anywhere else you get your podcasts. And you can 691 00:40:07,400 --> 00:40:10,399 Speaker 1: find us live every weekday from Washington, DC at one 692 00:40:10,440 --> 00:40:14,480 Speaker 1: pm Eastern Time at Bloomberg dot com