1 00:00:06,519 --> 00:00:09,239 Speaker 1: And there he is the aforementioned to Ken Rosenthal, the 2 00:00:09,280 --> 00:00:11,520 Speaker 1: busiest man in the game. Ken, good to see you, 3 00:00:11,560 --> 00:00:14,600 Speaker 1: thanks as always for being here. A couple of questions. 4 00:00:14,680 --> 00:00:17,720 Speaker 1: We wanted to ask you some topics that we talked 5 00:00:17,760 --> 00:00:20,720 Speaker 1: about a little bit yesterday on fair territory. What is 6 00:00:21,000 --> 00:00:26,200 Speaker 1: next my friend for the Seattle Mariners, and will Seattle 7 00:00:27,040 --> 00:00:29,479 Speaker 1: will a u henne O Suarez signing time soon? 8 00:00:31,760 --> 00:00:33,720 Speaker 2: They are a team that needs a bat. And I 9 00:00:33,800 --> 00:00:38,320 Speaker 2: believe Adam Dude was on FT yesterday explaining that since 10 00:00:38,360 --> 00:00:41,440 Speaker 2: the end of the season, they've lost Suarez, they've lost Polanco, 11 00:00:41,680 --> 00:00:45,519 Speaker 2: and they've resigned Josh Naylor, but they haven't done anything 12 00:00:45,560 --> 00:00:50,080 Speaker 2: else really to address their offense. So where would that 13 00:00:50,080 --> 00:00:52,839 Speaker 2: that be? Most likely in the infield, it seems to me. 14 00:00:53,040 --> 00:00:56,400 Speaker 2: But their concern there is blocking some younger players. So 15 00:00:57,200 --> 00:01:00,840 Speaker 2: this is why they have had such interest in Brendan Donovan, 16 00:01:00,920 --> 00:01:03,800 Speaker 2: because they feel Brendan Donovan is a guy that they 17 00:01:03,880 --> 00:01:06,360 Speaker 2: can use in a variety of ways at a variety 18 00:01:06,360 --> 00:01:10,959 Speaker 2: of positions and therefore enable some of their younger players 19 00:01:10,959 --> 00:01:15,160 Speaker 2: the opportunity to establish themselves. That makes a ton of sense, 20 00:01:15,319 --> 00:01:17,840 Speaker 2: And yet they've been talking about Brendan Donovan with the 21 00:01:17,880 --> 00:01:20,679 Speaker 2: Cardinals all winter, and yet we have not seen a 22 00:01:20,720 --> 00:01:21,680 Speaker 2: deal yet. 23 00:01:22,640 --> 00:01:24,679 Speaker 3: No, Brendan, Donovan might never get traded. He might be 24 00:01:24,680 --> 00:01:26,880 Speaker 3: a free agent before he gets traded. At the pace 25 00:01:26,959 --> 00:01:29,399 Speaker 3: this trade's going, Ken, it's been crazy. We've been talking 26 00:01:29,400 --> 00:01:31,520 Speaker 3: about this guy for three months, about him getting traded. 27 00:01:31,640 --> 00:01:33,760 Speaker 3: He's about to be traded and he's still a Cardinals. 28 00:01:33,720 --> 00:01:35,839 Speaker 3: So we'll see him in Jupiter in March. So, Brendan, 29 00:01:35,880 --> 00:01:38,360 Speaker 3: I expect you to come on the show. Thank you, Ken. 30 00:01:38,440 --> 00:01:40,600 Speaker 3: Why don't we keep hearing about all these prospects, like 31 00:01:40,640 --> 00:01:42,440 Speaker 3: we don't want to block this guy. We don't want 32 00:01:42,480 --> 00:01:45,080 Speaker 3: to block that guy if you can get an established 33 00:01:45,080 --> 00:01:49,760 Speaker 3: major league player. Every team is just so afraid to 34 00:01:49,800 --> 00:01:52,400 Speaker 3: block a guy that they don't even know. Christian Campbell, 35 00:01:52,680 --> 00:01:53,760 Speaker 3: I use Christian Campbell. 36 00:01:53,800 --> 00:01:54,920 Speaker 4: He was not blocked. 37 00:01:54,960 --> 00:01:57,600 Speaker 3: They signed him to an extension, and we spent most of 38 00:01:57,600 --> 00:02:00,240 Speaker 3: the year in TRIPAA and now this year, guess out 39 00:02:00,240 --> 00:02:02,240 Speaker 3: there trying to see if he can even make the 40 00:02:02,320 --> 00:02:05,120 Speaker 3: roster even though he's guaranteed. So why are we so 41 00:02:05,280 --> 00:02:08,840 Speaker 3: scared to trade away our prospects for guaranteed big leagues? 42 00:02:09,800 --> 00:02:13,120 Speaker 2: Well, I don't know about necessarily trading them or are 43 00:02:13,120 --> 00:02:15,880 Speaker 2: you talking more about just creating opportunity for them. 44 00:02:15,919 --> 00:02:19,520 Speaker 4: That's oh, it's just both. It's kind of a bow thing, right, AJ. 45 00:02:19,639 --> 00:02:23,040 Speaker 2: You're right that an established player is more likely to 46 00:02:23,080 --> 00:02:25,640 Speaker 2: help you win than a non established player. But the 47 00:02:25,680 --> 00:02:28,560 Speaker 2: way teams view this, and I'm not telling you guys anything, 48 00:02:28,600 --> 00:02:33,200 Speaker 2: you don't know the prospects. The young players are affordable, 49 00:02:33,360 --> 00:02:36,280 Speaker 2: they're under control for longer than an established guy you 50 00:02:36,360 --> 00:02:40,079 Speaker 2: might sign for two years, and therefore they provide more 51 00:02:40,120 --> 00:02:43,200 Speaker 2: bang for the buck. The flaw in that theory is 52 00:02:43,600 --> 00:02:45,760 Speaker 2: when it doesn't work. Just as you just mentioned with 53 00:02:45,840 --> 00:02:48,640 Speaker 2: Christian Campbell, they give him a big contract right afore 54 00:02:48,639 --> 00:02:51,680 Speaker 2: he starts the season, and yet he wasn't ready for 55 00:02:51,720 --> 00:02:54,320 Speaker 2: the majors. He kind of demonstrated that he wasn't ready 56 00:02:54,320 --> 00:02:57,440 Speaker 2: for the majors. And who knows, they could have maybe 57 00:02:57,440 --> 00:03:01,640 Speaker 2: committed that money to a player of a veteran status 58 00:03:01,680 --> 00:03:05,200 Speaker 2: and waiting to see if Christian Campbell actually can be 59 00:03:05,320 --> 00:03:08,600 Speaker 2: a viable Major leaguer. They obviously got the price they 60 00:03:08,600 --> 00:03:10,800 Speaker 2: wanted in the extension they signed him, and then it 61 00:03:10,880 --> 00:03:14,120 Speaker 2: didn't work out. Now, for every Christian Campbell, there's also 62 00:03:14,160 --> 00:03:16,960 Speaker 2: a Roman Anthony, a top prospect who does work out, 63 00:03:17,520 --> 00:03:20,840 Speaker 2: and the Mariners have a number of these guys Cole Young, 64 00:03:20,960 --> 00:03:25,200 Speaker 2: Colt Emerson, others that are coming, and they have some 65 00:03:25,240 --> 00:03:28,080 Speaker 2: of the more highly regarded young players in the game today. 66 00:03:28,639 --> 00:03:30,919 Speaker 2: That's why they don't want to block them. I understand 67 00:03:31,080 --> 00:03:33,880 Speaker 2: that logic, but they still need one more player at 68 00:03:33,919 --> 00:03:34,880 Speaker 2: the very least. 69 00:03:35,640 --> 00:03:37,960 Speaker 5: The Red Sox are clearly in a win now, you know, 70 00:03:38,080 --> 00:03:41,480 Speaker 5: don't hoard the prospect's mode, but it's a little bit 71 00:03:41,520 --> 00:03:43,920 Speaker 5: different for the Red Sox. You feel like and a 72 00:03:43,920 --> 00:03:45,960 Speaker 5: lot of people feel like they need to fill a 73 00:03:45,960 --> 00:03:48,600 Speaker 5: spot in the infield, whether it is Christian Campbell or not. 74 00:03:48,880 --> 00:03:52,760 Speaker 5: We doubt it that are teams looking at the Red 75 00:03:52,800 --> 00:03:56,760 Speaker 5: Sox pitching, which they have added to this offseason and 76 00:03:56,800 --> 00:04:00,600 Speaker 5: then maybe could diminish from to be able to to 77 00:04:00,680 --> 00:04:03,119 Speaker 5: make sure they fill that role that Bregman left. 78 00:04:04,320 --> 00:04:07,320 Speaker 2: They definitely want to add an infielder, and probably a 79 00:04:07,400 --> 00:04:10,800 Speaker 2: right handed hitting infielder. The preference seems to be second 80 00:04:10,840 --> 00:04:12,960 Speaker 2: base because they want Marcella Meyer at third. 81 00:04:13,680 --> 00:04:13,960 Speaker 4: Now. 82 00:04:14,120 --> 00:04:17,360 Speaker 2: I've heard in recent days that they are willing to 83 00:04:17,400 --> 00:04:21,000 Speaker 2: trade one of their lesser pitchers, and by lesser picture 84 00:04:21,640 --> 00:04:23,720 Speaker 2: not a guy who's a top prospect and not a 85 00:04:23,760 --> 00:04:27,240 Speaker 2: guy who is Garat Crochet or Sonny Gray or Johanno 86 00:04:27,320 --> 00:04:30,839 Speaker 2: Viedo that crowd. Obviously, range of Suarez fits with that 87 00:04:30,960 --> 00:04:34,359 Speaker 2: as well, So who we talked about. Brian Beyo is one, 88 00:04:34,680 --> 00:04:38,080 Speaker 2: Jordan Hicks is another. Maybe Patrick Sandoval coming off Tommy 89 00:04:38,120 --> 00:04:41,680 Speaker 2: John surgery would be another in that kind of category. 90 00:04:42,160 --> 00:04:44,360 Speaker 2: They don't want to trade Peyton totally. They don't want 91 00:04:44,360 --> 00:04:48,320 Speaker 2: to trade Connolly early. I understand that. And if they 92 00:04:48,320 --> 00:04:49,920 Speaker 2: can get the piece they need for one of the 93 00:04:50,000 --> 00:04:52,919 Speaker 2: lesser pictures, or maybe just rearrange it in some fashion, 94 00:04:53,040 --> 00:04:55,840 Speaker 2: make a couple of deals to get that player that infielder, 95 00:04:56,480 --> 00:04:59,160 Speaker 2: more power to them. They need to do that. In 96 00:04:59,160 --> 00:05:02,480 Speaker 2: my opinion, it's kind of like Seattle. They're missing one piece, 97 00:05:02,920 --> 00:05:07,240 Speaker 2: and it's an important piece because offensively they are a 98 00:05:07,279 --> 00:05:10,919 Speaker 2: little bit challenged right now, at least from an outside perspective. 99 00:05:10,960 --> 00:05:14,360 Speaker 2: Now maybe they feel, well, we've got run prevention figured 100 00:05:14,400 --> 00:05:17,679 Speaker 2: out better with the pitching staff we've assembled. They certainly 101 00:05:17,720 --> 00:05:21,359 Speaker 2: have very deep rotation at this point, perhaps even too deep. 102 00:05:21,680 --> 00:05:24,760 Speaker 2: But you got to score runs too, and that's the 103 00:05:24,800 --> 00:05:26,800 Speaker 2: area they still need to address. 104 00:05:28,880 --> 00:05:29,919 Speaker 6: Coming out of Minnesota. 105 00:05:30,080 --> 00:05:33,200 Speaker 1: That the Minnesota twins and Derek Falvee, the president of 106 00:05:33,520 --> 00:05:37,680 Speaker 1: Baseball Operations as well as business Operations, have mutually agreed 107 00:05:37,720 --> 00:05:40,760 Speaker 1: to part ways. The timing seems interesting, but I'd like 108 00:05:40,800 --> 00:05:41,480 Speaker 1: your take on it. 109 00:05:42,480 --> 00:05:45,000 Speaker 2: The timing sure was interesting a lot, and I know 110 00:05:45,080 --> 00:05:46,960 Speaker 2: you just had Dan Hayes on and he of course 111 00:05:47,000 --> 00:05:51,120 Speaker 2: covers that team so well for the athletic Derek falve 112 00:05:52,320 --> 00:05:56,600 Speaker 2: from what I gathered, was frustrated. Frustrated because at the 113 00:05:56,640 --> 00:06:00,359 Speaker 2: deadline he was asked by ownership to go even further 114 00:06:00,440 --> 00:06:02,960 Speaker 2: than he might have gone if just left to his 115 00:06:03,000 --> 00:06:05,760 Speaker 2: own devices. And as Dan mentioned in the previous segment, 116 00:06:05,800 --> 00:06:08,440 Speaker 2: I believe were a couple of segments ago, they tore 117 00:06:08,480 --> 00:06:11,400 Speaker 2: apart their bullpen, the entire bullpen, even some guys who 118 00:06:11,400 --> 00:06:13,960 Speaker 2: were under long term control who were cheap like the 119 00:06:14,040 --> 00:06:17,520 Speaker 2: players we were just talking about with AJ, and it 120 00:06:17,600 --> 00:06:22,520 Speaker 2: left them in a competitively compromised position. So now they 121 00:06:22,560 --> 00:06:27,960 Speaker 2: have effectively a new ownership structure. Tom Pohlad is now 122 00:06:28,000 --> 00:06:30,680 Speaker 2: in charge. He wasn't the guy before. It was Jim Pohlad. 123 00:06:30,960 --> 00:06:34,320 Speaker 2: Then it brought in some minority investors. Things are changing 124 00:06:34,360 --> 00:06:37,920 Speaker 2: there in terms of what ownership sees and what ownership 125 00:06:37,960 --> 00:06:42,719 Speaker 2: looks like so Flauvey, it seemed to me just was 126 00:06:42,800 --> 00:06:48,320 Speaker 2: wary and maybe frustrated and maybe just uncertain about the 127 00:06:48,400 --> 00:06:51,400 Speaker 2: direction of this team. He is the one who fought 128 00:06:51,400 --> 00:06:53,479 Speaker 2: to keep this team together over the winter and not 129 00:06:53,560 --> 00:06:57,480 Speaker 2: trade Joe Ryan, not trade Byron Buxton. Obviously ownership agreed 130 00:06:57,480 --> 00:07:00,359 Speaker 2: with that, and that's the way they're going forward. But 131 00:07:01,520 --> 00:07:03,880 Speaker 2: I don't know how he sees the future, and maybe 132 00:07:03,920 --> 00:07:06,680 Speaker 2: he doesn't see the future quite the same way that 133 00:07:06,800 --> 00:07:10,280 Speaker 2: ownership does. That would be my strong guess here when 134 00:07:10,320 --> 00:07:12,680 Speaker 2: you have a mutual parting. What else could it be? 135 00:07:13,960 --> 00:07:16,640 Speaker 5: Chris Bassett, can you tell us about what his market 136 00:07:16,720 --> 00:07:18,720 Speaker 5: is starting to shape up like? Because this is a 137 00:07:18,760 --> 00:07:21,720 Speaker 5: guy that had a bounce back season, and we've seen 138 00:07:21,760 --> 00:07:24,960 Speaker 5: other guys who have bad seasons right before free agency 139 00:07:25,400 --> 00:07:28,280 Speaker 5: not get jobs. But now Chris Bassett and he was 140 00:07:28,480 --> 00:07:31,560 Speaker 5: very He did really well in the playoffs too. Why 141 00:07:31,640 --> 00:07:33,840 Speaker 5: is it not Materializa? What are you hearing so far? 142 00:07:34,680 --> 00:07:38,440 Speaker 2: Well, the market for starting pitching right now is quite interesting. 143 00:07:38,560 --> 00:07:41,400 Speaker 2: There are a number of teams still that need to 144 00:07:41,440 --> 00:07:44,040 Speaker 2: add a starter, and you can see the pitchers right 145 00:07:44,080 --> 00:07:46,840 Speaker 2: now who are still available, and then beyond from ber 146 00:07:46,960 --> 00:07:50,720 Speaker 2: Valdez and Zach Gallen. You see that list, Lucas Gilio, 147 00:07:50,840 --> 00:07:54,920 Speaker 2: Chris Bassett, Zach Lttel, they're all on the rung below. 148 00:07:55,400 --> 00:07:59,160 Speaker 2: So it seems to me they perhaps and I say perhaps, 149 00:07:59,360 --> 00:08:03,200 Speaker 2: need from Valdez and Zach Gallan to find their spots 150 00:08:03,680 --> 00:08:06,600 Speaker 2: and at that point we would see better definition in 151 00:08:06,640 --> 00:08:09,280 Speaker 2: the markets for the next tier down. And those are 152 00:08:09,280 --> 00:08:13,160 Speaker 2: the pictures I just mentioned. It's Giolito, it's Bassett, it's 153 00:08:13,320 --> 00:08:16,000 Speaker 2: Zach Lttel, Nick Martinez, a couple of others as well. 154 00:08:16,560 --> 00:08:19,600 Speaker 2: So that seems to be what's going on. And you 155 00:08:19,680 --> 00:08:21,200 Speaker 2: might ask, well, what are. 156 00:08:21,080 --> 00:08:21,600 Speaker 4: We doing here? 157 00:08:21,600 --> 00:08:25,000 Speaker 2: It's January thirty, it's spring training camps open in two 158 00:08:25,080 --> 00:08:28,040 Speaker 2: weeks even less in some cases, why are these pictures 159 00:08:28,040 --> 00:08:31,040 Speaker 2: now signed? It seems to me it's pretty obvious the 160 00:08:31,080 --> 00:08:34,199 Speaker 2: teams are squeezing and squeezing and squeezing, hoping for these 161 00:08:34,200 --> 00:08:37,680 Speaker 2: guys to lower their prices, particularly the top two Valdez 162 00:08:37,720 --> 00:08:42,199 Speaker 2: and Gallon, and then they'll have still a high supply 163 00:08:42,480 --> 00:08:44,960 Speaker 2: and still a high demand, but maybe they can get 164 00:08:45,040 --> 00:08:46,600 Speaker 2: prices closer to what they want. 165 00:08:54,080 --> 00:08:54,400 Speaker 6: All right. 166 00:08:54,400 --> 00:08:56,560 Speaker 1: I love doing this because we have two catchers on 167 00:08:56,640 --> 00:08:59,599 Speaker 1: the show. Of course, Aj and Eric both know a 168 00:08:59,600 --> 00:09:02,480 Speaker 1: little bit about pitch framing, if you will. Things have changed, 169 00:09:02,520 --> 00:09:04,959 Speaker 1: of course since they were behind the dish, but by 170 00:09:05,040 --> 00:09:08,880 Speaker 1: stack cast numbers. Let's talk about the best and worst teams, 171 00:09:08,880 --> 00:09:12,520 Speaker 1: you guys, and the three main catching metrics. That's obviously blocking, throwing, 172 00:09:12,640 --> 00:09:13,320 Speaker 1: and framing. 173 00:09:14,440 --> 00:09:15,240 Speaker 6: What do you think about this? 174 00:09:15,280 --> 00:09:18,920 Speaker 1: Blocking twelve runs, throwing nineteen runs, framing forty five runs. 175 00:09:18,960 --> 00:09:21,520 Speaker 1: In terms of what they're talking about, Mike Petriello is 176 00:09:21,559 --> 00:09:24,079 Speaker 1: saying this now he thinks that kind of is underselling. 177 00:09:24,120 --> 00:09:26,040 Speaker 1: It also shows you that the spread has declined as 178 00:09:26,080 --> 00:09:29,840 Speaker 1: teams all value framing. In twenty eighteen, the spread between 179 00:09:29,880 --> 00:09:33,160 Speaker 1: best to worst with sixty four runs twenty twelve. 180 00:09:33,160 --> 00:09:34,880 Speaker 6: That's pre stat cast era. 181 00:09:35,040 --> 00:09:37,680 Speaker 1: It was seventy six runs in two thousand and eight, 182 00:09:38,200 --> 00:09:41,920 Speaker 1: so twenty something years ago it was ninety nine runs. 183 00:09:41,960 --> 00:09:44,240 Speaker 6: What do you make of these numbers? Eric, we'll start 184 00:09:44,240 --> 00:09:44,480 Speaker 6: with you. 185 00:09:45,480 --> 00:09:47,800 Speaker 5: Well, I know for a fact, you can look at 186 00:09:47,840 --> 00:09:50,400 Speaker 5: my batting average in my career. This is what kept 187 00:09:50,440 --> 00:09:53,400 Speaker 5: me around. I didn't know I was a good framer. 188 00:09:53,960 --> 00:09:56,400 Speaker 5: I thought I was good, but I didn't know there 189 00:09:56,440 --> 00:09:59,040 Speaker 5: was a metric for it. I didn't know it was 190 00:09:59,080 --> 00:10:02,880 Speaker 5: a thing. So finished twenty thirteen got traded to the 191 00:10:02,920 --> 00:10:06,079 Speaker 5: Blue Jays, and that was the first time I saw anything, 192 00:10:06,200 --> 00:10:09,400 Speaker 5: first time I saw any kind of numbers. And fast 193 00:10:09,400 --> 00:10:12,920 Speaker 5: forward to twenty twenty kept you know, they kept oh wow, 194 00:10:13,000 --> 00:10:16,120 Speaker 5: your numbers are so amazing. The Yankees were like, oh, 195 00:10:16,200 --> 00:10:20,520 Speaker 5: we were back on your numbers back in like twenty twelve. 196 00:10:21,320 --> 00:10:25,520 Speaker 5: There was a presentation done for the Yankees one of 197 00:10:25,520 --> 00:10:27,280 Speaker 5: the years, and I don't know which one it was, 198 00:10:27,920 --> 00:10:32,440 Speaker 5: that the year that Mike Trout won the MVP, the 199 00:10:32,640 --> 00:10:37,440 Speaker 5: Mike Trout Prime Mike Trout MVP, and the argument was 200 00:10:37,520 --> 00:10:42,720 Speaker 5: framing is so important that Hank Conger, the same Hank 201 00:10:42,760 --> 00:10:47,800 Speaker 5: Conger that everybody remembers, was more valuable based on a 202 00:10:47,920 --> 00:10:51,520 Speaker 5: per run, per pitch basis than Mike Trout. 203 00:10:53,200 --> 00:10:56,680 Speaker 1: That's asinine. I love I love Conger, but that is asenine. 204 00:10:57,160 --> 00:10:59,600 Speaker 1: There's no way that Hank Conger, by the way, the 205 00:10:59,640 --> 00:11:01,240 Speaker 1: Twins also got rid of when they got rid of 206 00:11:01,320 --> 00:11:05,440 Speaker 1: Rockaball Delly. Uh, there's no way that Hank Conger has 207 00:11:05,520 --> 00:11:08,040 Speaker 1: more value. I love the dude, I went to his wedding, 208 00:11:08,080 --> 00:11:10,560 Speaker 1: but there's no way that Hank Conger has more value 209 00:11:10,559 --> 00:11:11,880 Speaker 1: in this game than Mike Trout. 210 00:11:12,080 --> 00:11:12,320 Speaker 6: AJ. 211 00:11:12,480 --> 00:11:15,960 Speaker 3: What say you you see you see my face right now, right. 212 00:11:20,520 --> 00:11:22,199 Speaker 6: So sometimes the metrics are be. 213 00:11:24,080 --> 00:11:24,120 Speaker 4: No. 214 00:11:24,280 --> 00:11:26,360 Speaker 3: I also want to say this, Look, let's look at 215 00:11:26,360 --> 00:11:28,520 Speaker 3: the teams that are at the top. Okay, Giants, Patrick 216 00:11:28,559 --> 00:11:30,640 Speaker 3: Bailey is elite. The Blue Jays have strike throwers. The 217 00:11:30,720 --> 00:11:34,440 Speaker 3: Yankees have veteran pitchers, right, The Tigers have mostly strike throwers. 218 00:11:34,440 --> 00:11:38,160 Speaker 3: The Guardians have really good pitching and strike throwers. Okay, 219 00:11:38,679 --> 00:11:40,600 Speaker 3: guess what, they're going to get more strikes called. Now 220 00:11:40,679 --> 00:11:42,760 Speaker 3: that's not knock on the catchers because Dingler won the 221 00:11:42,760 --> 00:11:46,560 Speaker 3: Gold Glove. Austin Wells, Alejandro Kirk, Patrick Bailey is really good. 222 00:11:46,840 --> 00:11:48,600 Speaker 4: Bow Naylor's gotten so much better. 223 00:11:48,800 --> 00:11:51,480 Speaker 3: Now if you go to those teams at the bottom, Nationals, 224 00:11:51,480 --> 00:11:54,640 Speaker 3: White Sox, raise Angels, guess what, they didn't have a 225 00:11:54,640 --> 00:12:01,480 Speaker 3: whole lot of veteran, great strike throwing pitchers. Okay, so 226 00:12:02,480 --> 00:12:05,480 Speaker 3: in the White Sox had two rookie catchers catch this year, 227 00:12:05,520 --> 00:12:07,439 Speaker 3: so the umpires aren't giving them the benefit of the doubt. 228 00:12:07,679 --> 00:12:10,640 Speaker 3: The Nationals keibert Ruiz isn't known for his catching, and 229 00:12:10,640 --> 00:12:13,199 Speaker 3: then they had to other young guys. Right, So I 230 00:12:14,080 --> 00:12:15,800 Speaker 3: just take this all with the grain of salt, because 231 00:12:15,840 --> 00:12:17,960 Speaker 3: the way I look at is Jonathan Lucroi one year 232 00:12:18,360 --> 00:12:21,480 Speaker 3: was the number one framing catcher in baseball. He didn't 233 00:12:21,559 --> 00:12:23,679 Speaker 3: change a thing. The next year he was the worst. 234 00:12:23,840 --> 00:12:25,640 Speaker 3: So how does it go from one to the other. 235 00:12:26,120 --> 00:12:28,679 Speaker 3: To me, it all goes on who your pitchers are, 236 00:12:28,720 --> 00:12:31,000 Speaker 3: who you line up with umpires. Because let's say you 237 00:12:31,040 --> 00:12:32,439 Speaker 3: get one umpire that calls. 238 00:12:32,200 --> 00:12:32,800 Speaker 4: More you get. 239 00:12:32,920 --> 00:12:34,559 Speaker 3: Listen, I love Doug getting his death. He has a 240 00:12:34,559 --> 00:12:38,160 Speaker 3: bigger strike zone than some other guys do. Okay, so 241 00:12:38,200 --> 00:12:39,720 Speaker 3: you're gonna get more strikes called. 242 00:12:40,320 --> 00:12:40,520 Speaker 5: Right. 243 00:12:40,960 --> 00:12:44,520 Speaker 4: It's just it's so subjective. Who's doing the rating on this, right? 244 00:12:44,840 --> 00:12:46,880 Speaker 4: Who's doing this? To me? 245 00:12:47,000 --> 00:12:49,240 Speaker 3: This is one of those things that is cool, and 246 00:12:49,280 --> 00:12:51,079 Speaker 3: I'm sure it's gotten better over the year since it 247 00:12:51,120 --> 00:12:54,480 Speaker 3: first started. I just don't know until someone can tell 248 00:12:54,520 --> 00:12:58,200 Speaker 3: me how it's quantified. I look at it and say great, 249 00:12:58,480 --> 00:13:01,440 Speaker 3: because for like Krats and some other people had got him, 250 00:13:01,440 --> 00:13:03,360 Speaker 3: made him some money, and it got him in great 251 00:13:03,360 --> 00:13:05,679 Speaker 3: position to have a great career. But then I look 252 00:13:05,760 --> 00:13:09,440 Speaker 3: at it and I go, Okay, well, if my guy 253 00:13:10,040 --> 00:13:13,840 Speaker 3: is getting one two more strikes a game, but they're 254 00:13:13,840 --> 00:13:16,200 Speaker 3: also missing more balls in the dirt and having more 255 00:13:16,200 --> 00:13:18,000 Speaker 3: pass balls because they're trying to frame them. 256 00:13:18,480 --> 00:13:21,160 Speaker 4: Is it really worth it? I don't know. 257 00:13:21,240 --> 00:13:24,800 Speaker 5: And there's hey, kudos to these teams, and there's arguments 258 00:13:24,840 --> 00:13:27,360 Speaker 5: on both sides. The biggest thing if we put that, 259 00:13:27,640 --> 00:13:30,560 Speaker 5: if we put the last if we put the last 260 00:13:30,640 --> 00:13:33,520 Speaker 5: picture up there was the lowest teams. You saw the 261 00:13:33,559 --> 00:13:34,840 Speaker 5: Dodgers and Phillies up there. 262 00:13:34,960 --> 00:13:36,560 Speaker 6: That's what I was just gonna say. 263 00:13:37,080 --> 00:13:40,599 Speaker 5: Nobody would say. Nobody would say Will Smith and J. T. 264 00:13:40,800 --> 00:13:43,800 Speaker 5: Ro Muto, who, by the way, JT. Real Muto had 265 00:13:43,840 --> 00:13:47,600 Speaker 5: been a top ten receiver, or nobody would say they're 266 00:13:47,640 --> 00:13:50,280 Speaker 5: bad receivers. Did the Dodgers get downgray when they got 267 00:13:50,400 --> 00:13:52,480 Speaker 5: rid of Austin Barnes. Austin Barnes was one of the 268 00:13:52,520 --> 00:13:55,520 Speaker 5: best receivers. Just visually. You watch it and you're like 269 00:13:56,200 --> 00:13:58,040 Speaker 5: that dude catches the snot out of the ball. He 270 00:13:58,080 --> 00:14:00,000 Speaker 5: beats the ball to the spot. I don't care if 271 00:14:00,000 --> 00:14:03,440 Speaker 5: you on one knee, two knees. Austin Barnes would catch 272 00:14:03,480 --> 00:14:06,800 Speaker 5: from two feet and the way he moved his hands, 273 00:14:06,840 --> 00:14:10,000 Speaker 5: you can tell he is a good receiver. What is 274 00:14:10,040 --> 00:14:12,360 Speaker 5: the predominant pitch that a lot of the guys on 275 00:14:12,440 --> 00:14:15,480 Speaker 5: the Dodgers and Phillies who are both playoff teams, two 276 00:14:15,480 --> 00:14:17,319 Speaker 5: of the best teams in the National League, if not 277 00:14:17,480 --> 00:14:21,120 Speaker 5: the two best. What pitch did a lot of those 278 00:14:21,120 --> 00:14:25,200 Speaker 5: guys start throwing? We just talked about Roki yesterday, the split. 279 00:14:25,640 --> 00:14:29,120 Speaker 5: I promise you, you try to frame a split, you're 280 00:14:29,160 --> 00:14:31,840 Speaker 5: going to be chasing it to the backstop. You catch 281 00:14:31,880 --> 00:14:34,840 Speaker 5: a splitter because it's a swing and mispitch, and you're 282 00:14:34,880 --> 00:14:38,120 Speaker 5: gonna lose pitches. You're gonna lose balls that are at 283 00:14:38,120 --> 00:14:40,600 Speaker 5: the bottom of the zone, side of the strike zone 284 00:14:40,600 --> 00:14:44,960 Speaker 5: because they are nasty, elite pitches that are tough to 285 00:14:45,040 --> 00:14:47,280 Speaker 5: pick up. So there's different things that go into this, 286 00:14:48,080 --> 00:14:51,480 Speaker 5: and there is value in framing. But Kahi Gashioka said 287 00:14:51,480 --> 00:14:57,240 Speaker 5: it yesterday. If the eye test does not match the numbers, 288 00:14:57,640 --> 00:15:02,360 Speaker 5: it's not sustainable. But also if you're selling out to 289 00:15:02,680 --> 00:15:07,960 Speaker 5: one style of catching. One idea that every pitch that's 290 00:15:08,040 --> 00:15:13,240 Speaker 5: framed is worth point one two runs, and every pass 291 00:15:13,360 --> 00:15:19,080 Speaker 5: ball is only worth point two two runs. But a 292 00:15:19,120 --> 00:15:22,040 Speaker 5: pass ball with a runnerund third is still equal to 293 00:15:22,080 --> 00:15:24,440 Speaker 5: a pass ball with a runner on first going to second. 294 00:15:24,880 --> 00:15:28,080 Speaker 5: Like then then you're only looking at it adds the 295 00:15:28,160 --> 00:15:30,440 Speaker 5: numbers and people will argue it till they're blue in 296 00:15:30,480 --> 00:15:36,160 Speaker 5: the face. The idea is correct, the execution of it 297 00:15:36,200 --> 00:15:39,520 Speaker 5: is too broad stroke and everybody needs to do this, 298 00:15:40,360 --> 00:15:43,880 Speaker 5: and I think that is doing a disservice to some catchers, 299 00:15:44,280 --> 00:15:47,520 Speaker 5: but it's also doing a disservice to the value of 300 00:15:47,680 --> 00:15:52,000 Speaker 5: players and certain plays in the game of baseball. I, 301 00:15:52,080 --> 00:15:54,040 Speaker 5: for one, hope Austin Barnes gets on with the New 302 00:15:54,080 --> 00:15:54,560 Speaker 5: York Mets. 303 00:15:54,600 --> 00:15:56,160 Speaker 6: He is a good receiver, he's a good dude. 304 00:15:56,360 --> 00:16:00,040 Speaker 1: He's caught a lot of very important innings, particularly in 305 00:16:00,120 --> 00:16:01,280 Speaker 1: the post season. 306 00:16:01,440 --> 00:16:03,520 Speaker 6: AJ what does this do if. 307 00:16:03,320 --> 00:16:10,160 Speaker 1: They implement robo umps? How does this whole framing conversation change. 308 00:16:11,080 --> 00:16:12,480 Speaker 3: I don't think it's frames because you're not going to 309 00:16:12,520 --> 00:16:15,000 Speaker 3: get somebody going like this every pitch right and most 310 00:16:15,040 --> 00:16:18,440 Speaker 3: of the time, if anything, it would fool your pitcher sometimes, 311 00:16:18,440 --> 00:16:20,240 Speaker 3: and the umpires are still going to call the strikes 312 00:16:20,240 --> 00:16:24,160 Speaker 3: that they see and if it's close. I don't know 313 00:16:24,200 --> 00:16:26,520 Speaker 3: that it changes that much. Here's the one thing I'll say. 314 00:16:26,960 --> 00:16:28,960 Speaker 3: I talked to umpires and I've told this on this 315 00:16:29,360 --> 00:16:33,640 Speaker 3: on this show that have been in the ABS system 316 00:16:33,640 --> 00:16:36,640 Speaker 3: in Triple A, and they said that the really good 317 00:16:36,680 --> 00:16:39,440 Speaker 3: catchers actually box balls that are strikes to make the 318 00:16:39,520 --> 00:16:43,720 Speaker 3: hitter think it's a ball, they tap, they lose their challenge. 319 00:16:44,160 --> 00:16:46,080 Speaker 4: How much will it change. I don't know. We're gonna 320 00:16:46,080 --> 00:16:46,400 Speaker 4: have to see. 321 00:16:46,400 --> 00:16:48,200 Speaker 3: That's gonna be one of the fascinating things about twenty 322 00:16:48,240 --> 00:16:52,520 Speaker 3: twenty six, starting in spring training into the early season, 323 00:16:52,840 --> 00:16:55,080 Speaker 3: how teams use the ABS and how it affects this, 324 00:16:56,160 --> 00:16:59,280 Speaker 3: you know, pitch framing metric that is so popular right now. 325 00:16:59,320 --> 00:16:59,600 Speaker 4: I love. 326 00:16:59,680 --> 00:17:02,760 Speaker 3: I think it's great. I think catchers have always been undervalue. 327 00:17:03,320 --> 00:17:05,479 Speaker 3: I think that this is a thing that was always 328 00:17:05,480 --> 00:17:07,400 Speaker 3: looked upon. I remember when I first came up there, 329 00:17:07,480 --> 00:17:09,960 Speaker 3: like just be quiet, don't move the ball. Umpires will 330 00:17:10,000 --> 00:17:13,160 Speaker 3: tell you, hey, you snatched that back. That's automatically a ball. 331 00:17:13,560 --> 00:17:15,719 Speaker 3: And now guys are going like catching balls that are 332 00:17:15,800 --> 00:17:17,919 Speaker 3: a pitch out and they're like, oh, you know, well 333 00:17:17,920 --> 00:17:19,919 Speaker 3: it's a strike. You know, every pitch they do it. 334 00:17:20,000 --> 00:17:23,320 Speaker 3: So things have changed on for the change. It's just 335 00:17:23,359 --> 00:17:25,000 Speaker 3: going to be fascinating to see how it moves on 336 00:17:25,040 --> 00:17:25,840 Speaker 3: to abs. 337 00:17:26,240 --> 00:17:28,199 Speaker 1: Eric, how do you think it's changed in terms of 338 00:17:28,240 --> 00:17:30,760 Speaker 1: framing or the style or the thought process of it. 339 00:17:30,800 --> 00:17:33,000 Speaker 1: Because of the way that it seems like guys are 340 00:17:33,040 --> 00:17:35,440 Speaker 1: trying to catch differently now you know, the one leg 341 00:17:35,520 --> 00:17:37,639 Speaker 1: out type of thing. It doesn't matter if there's a 342 00:17:37,680 --> 00:17:39,960 Speaker 1: you know, run around third balls on the dirt, you're screwed. 343 00:17:40,680 --> 00:17:44,240 Speaker 1: This whole thing that started kind of with the Twins 344 00:17:44,280 --> 00:17:47,520 Speaker 1: the Yankees a little bit about just setting up behind 345 00:17:47,560 --> 00:17:50,359 Speaker 1: the plate differently and different style of catching. 346 00:17:50,400 --> 00:17:53,320 Speaker 6: Has that changed the framing at all? 347 00:17:54,040 --> 00:17:54,200 Speaker 4: God? 348 00:17:54,200 --> 00:17:56,520 Speaker 5: I mean, that is all about the framing. And now 349 00:17:56,560 --> 00:17:59,120 Speaker 5: they'll argue because they have a lot of numbers that 350 00:17:59,720 --> 00:18:03,479 Speaker 5: they're able to block more pitches, and the true argument 351 00:18:03,640 --> 00:18:07,640 Speaker 5: is they're able to block the ninety nine mile hour 352 00:18:07,800 --> 00:18:11,359 Speaker 5: yard dart that's in front of them, that's in front 353 00:18:11,359 --> 00:18:14,679 Speaker 5: of home plate, that's directly in front of them, And 354 00:18:14,720 --> 00:18:16,439 Speaker 5: because they're already down there and they just put their 355 00:18:16,480 --> 00:18:19,560 Speaker 5: glove down and they're able to block it, you're not moving. 356 00:18:19,640 --> 00:18:23,280 Speaker 5: You're not moving as well side to side. But so 357 00:18:23,600 --> 00:18:27,520 Speaker 5: you can't necessarily you bring one argument up and somebody 358 00:18:27,560 --> 00:18:32,000 Speaker 5: will argue the other part. That value is there, but 359 00:18:32,119 --> 00:18:36,760 Speaker 5: it's not. It's not as linear as what analytics says 360 00:18:36,840 --> 00:18:39,040 Speaker 5: it is. And not everybody should be on a knee 361 00:18:39,040 --> 00:18:42,880 Speaker 5: because the idea is forty eight percent of the pitches 362 00:18:43,520 --> 00:18:46,280 Speaker 5: are in I'm sorry, fifty two percent of the pitches 363 00:18:46,359 --> 00:18:49,400 Speaker 5: are in the bottom half of the strike zone. Well, 364 00:18:49,440 --> 00:18:51,600 Speaker 5: my argument was, and one of the areas that I 365 00:18:51,680 --> 00:18:55,080 Speaker 5: was the best at for me was the top half 366 00:18:55,119 --> 00:18:57,560 Speaker 5: of the strike zone. I'm like, well, that's forty eight 367 00:18:57,560 --> 00:19:01,200 Speaker 5: percent of the pitches, Like it's fifty fifth And if 368 00:19:01,200 --> 00:19:04,000 Speaker 5: you have a lot of guys that throw high balls 369 00:19:04,000 --> 00:19:07,000 Speaker 5: at the top of the strike zone, shouldn't you be 370 00:19:07,040 --> 00:19:11,000 Speaker 5: getting those two? So it's it's really how you manipulate 371 00:19:11,040 --> 00:19:14,600 Speaker 5: the numbers, But ultimately, at the end of the day, 372 00:19:14,720 --> 00:19:16,040 Speaker 5: you just got to get the job done. 373 00:19:18,080 --> 00:19:22,240 Speaker 1: I think it also depends too on who's evaluating what 374 00:19:22,320 --> 00:19:25,120 Speaker 1: the statistical metrics are that they're evaluating by. I mean, 375 00:19:25,160 --> 00:19:29,320 Speaker 1: can't you manipulate, as you were saying, the numbers, aj 376 00:19:29,960 --> 00:19:33,520 Speaker 1: can't you manipulate it to service any sort of stat 377 00:19:33,560 --> 00:19:34,400 Speaker 1: you're trying to prove? 378 00:19:36,320 --> 00:19:36,639 Speaker 4: Yes? 379 00:19:37,359 --> 00:19:41,159 Speaker 3: Yes, yes, it's like war, right, I mean, I use 380 00:19:41,280 --> 00:19:44,399 Speaker 3: I always laugh at war because there's more than one war, 381 00:19:44,880 --> 00:19:47,040 Speaker 3: and no one can tell you how they figure out war. 382 00:19:47,080 --> 00:19:49,880 Speaker 3: But everyone uses it as an evaluation. 383 00:19:49,400 --> 00:19:50,600 Speaker 4: Tool and this and now. 384 00:19:50,640 --> 00:19:53,479 Speaker 3: But if you can't even agree on how to calculate it, 385 00:19:53,840 --> 00:19:56,240 Speaker 3: then how do you know which who's this or that, 386 00:19:56,280 --> 00:19:59,159 Speaker 3: which one's right? So, yes, you can manipulate anything. I 387 00:19:59,200 --> 00:20:01,399 Speaker 3: know this when I used to watch a guy catch, 388 00:20:01,480 --> 00:20:03,720 Speaker 3: and I still watch guys, you're like, oh, he's pretty good. 389 00:20:03,720 --> 00:20:06,160 Speaker 3: He can steal pitches. Like I watched Patrick Bailey. I'm 390 00:20:06,160 --> 00:20:08,840 Speaker 3: like that dude can steal some pitches, right, and you 391 00:20:08,920 --> 00:20:11,399 Speaker 3: know who's good and who's not good, and the numbers 392 00:20:11,480 --> 00:20:13,919 Speaker 3: usually bear that out. I don't know that we need this, 393 00:20:14,080 --> 00:20:18,399 Speaker 3: but it's another tool to help people evaluate catchers and 394 00:20:18,440 --> 00:20:19,880 Speaker 3: put a value on them. 395 00:20:20,440 --> 00:20:21,879 Speaker 6: All right, Eric, let me ask you this. 396 00:20:21,960 --> 00:20:24,600 Speaker 1: How does this affect guys getting jobs? How does this 397 00:20:24,640 --> 00:20:28,640 Speaker 1: affect guys coming up? You know, when AJ said stealing pitches, 398 00:20:28,680 --> 00:20:30,679 Speaker 1: I swear to god, I thought he said stealing bitches. 399 00:20:30,680 --> 00:20:32,160 Speaker 6: But that's neither here nor there. 400 00:20:32,359 --> 00:20:34,680 Speaker 1: How does this affect guys coming up trying to get 401 00:20:34,760 --> 00:20:37,600 Speaker 1: jobs and maybe coming up in the minor leagues trying 402 00:20:37,640 --> 00:20:41,040 Speaker 1: to manipulate their style of their game to service what 403 00:20:41,200 --> 00:20:42,600 Speaker 1: it is that's going to get him to the big 404 00:20:42,640 --> 00:20:43,200 Speaker 1: league level. 405 00:20:44,520 --> 00:20:48,960 Speaker 5: Yeah, that well, stealing bitches. That's AJ's rap album that's 406 00:20:49,000 --> 00:20:51,720 Speaker 5: coming out soon's it's a single. It's going to be 407 00:20:51,760 --> 00:20:57,159 Speaker 5: on just on cassette, but it is it's so effect 408 00:20:57,200 --> 00:21:00,280 Speaker 5: you see it in college. You see it in college, 409 00:21:00,440 --> 00:21:02,399 Speaker 5: and there is a value to it. There's always been 410 00:21:02,440 --> 00:21:05,200 Speaker 5: a value to it. It is not something that needs 411 00:21:05,240 --> 00:21:08,920 Speaker 5: to be it's not something that needs to be diminished 412 00:21:08,920 --> 00:21:11,359 Speaker 5: in the sense of, oh, don't even worry about it. 413 00:21:11,359 --> 00:21:13,600 Speaker 5: It's something that you always needed to improve. Ernie Went 414 00:21:13,720 --> 00:21:17,080 Speaker 5: was my catching coach. He was always teaching us. You 415 00:21:17,160 --> 00:21:19,600 Speaker 5: have to beat the ball to the spot. You have 416 00:21:19,680 --> 00:21:24,560 Speaker 5: to You can't be late. You can't be like Aj 417 00:21:24,720 --> 00:21:29,000 Speaker 5: had over two thousand career hits and career hits, okay, 418 00:21:29,119 --> 00:21:33,240 Speaker 5: I had like two to one hundred hits in my career. 419 00:21:33,640 --> 00:21:36,400 Speaker 5: The value will always be in the offense. But what 420 00:21:36,480 --> 00:21:40,000 Speaker 5: kind of value do you get for your pitcher in 421 00:21:40,040 --> 00:21:43,800 Speaker 5: the framing metric? And how do you equate that when 422 00:21:44,000 --> 00:21:45,840 Speaker 5: you have a guy in the minor leagues that's doing it. 423 00:21:45,920 --> 00:21:49,679 Speaker 5: That's that's really what's that's what's holding up Ethan Solace 424 00:21:49,800 --> 00:21:53,240 Speaker 5: right now. Ethan Solace ever since he was sixteen the 425 00:21:53,359 --> 00:21:55,680 Speaker 5: videos started coming out of him. You know, the way 426 00:21:55,720 --> 00:21:59,080 Speaker 5: he's able to receive the ball, it's smooth, it's unbelievable. 427 00:21:59,400 --> 00:22:02,040 Speaker 5: If he doesn't hit over one ninety and stay healthy 428 00:22:03,160 --> 00:22:06,160 Speaker 5: he's never gonna make the big leagues. So as much 429 00:22:06,200 --> 00:22:08,880 Speaker 5: as guys work on framing and they do it off 430 00:22:09,000 --> 00:22:13,119 Speaker 5: machines instead of off of live pitchers, which is not 431 00:22:14,160 --> 00:22:19,560 Speaker 5: completely applicable. Like there's just there's more ways to get 432 00:22:19,680 --> 00:22:23,040 Speaker 5: to where they need to go than everybody going to 433 00:22:23,119 --> 00:22:33,240 Speaker 5: knee the Twins on one knee to catch at all times. 434 00:22:34,200 --> 00:22:37,359 Speaker 5: I think that takes away some of the athleticism. I 435 00:22:37,359 --> 00:22:41,120 Speaker 5: think a guy like j t Romuto wasn't in that category. 436 00:22:41,119 --> 00:22:44,320 Speaker 5: He wasn't with the Twins, but he's has been and 437 00:22:44,560 --> 00:22:48,440 Speaker 5: probably may still be the most athletic catcher in the game. 438 00:22:48,560 --> 00:22:50,520 Speaker 5: He could have played short in his prime. He could 439 00:22:50,520 --> 00:22:52,200 Speaker 5: have played short in the big leagues for a weekend. 440 00:22:52,960 --> 00:22:55,200 Speaker 5: And when you put him on a knee, you're putting 441 00:22:55,320 --> 00:22:59,119 Speaker 5: him and my chewed up piece of bubblegum body in 442 00:22:59,200 --> 00:23:03,119 Speaker 5: the same spot. If you're going down to one knee 443 00:23:03,160 --> 00:23:06,000 Speaker 5: all the time when you're receiving, like, it's not one 444 00:23:06,040 --> 00:23:09,280 Speaker 5: size fits all. You have to get the strikes, but 445 00:23:09,480 --> 00:23:12,560 Speaker 5: not everybody needs to get them the same way. 446 00:23:12,800 --> 00:23:16,080 Speaker 1: What do you think about manager calls in terms of 447 00:23:16,160 --> 00:23:17,640 Speaker 1: pitch calling from the dugout. 448 00:23:18,680 --> 00:23:22,240 Speaker 3: No, No, because here's my thing, I have with this, 449 00:23:22,480 --> 00:23:24,040 Speaker 3: and you watch it in college, in high school and 450 00:23:24,080 --> 00:23:29,520 Speaker 3: all this, you're not back there. And unless you're back 451 00:23:29,560 --> 00:23:32,879 Speaker 3: there and you can actually see what is happening, what 452 00:23:32,960 --> 00:23:35,920 Speaker 3: your pitcher has, what movement, hitters make adjustments. 453 00:23:37,160 --> 00:23:40,159 Speaker 4: No, that's a no. But Marlins are gonna do it. 454 00:23:40,280 --> 00:23:41,960 Speaker 3: Marlins are gonna try and if it works, you know 455 00:23:42,000 --> 00:23:43,920 Speaker 3: the Marlins, then other teams will try to. 456 00:23:44,040 --> 00:23:46,520 Speaker 4: But for me, that's a no. But that's just my 457 00:23:46,600 --> 00:23:49,119 Speaker 4: opinion because as. 458 00:23:49,000 --> 00:23:50,800 Speaker 3: A former catcher, I took pride and call on a 459 00:23:50,840 --> 00:23:52,480 Speaker 3: game and getting guys through and not to look over 460 00:23:52,520 --> 00:23:54,879 Speaker 3: to the dugout and say, hey, you know you're not 461 00:23:55,000 --> 00:23:55,400 Speaker 3: back here. 462 00:23:55,440 --> 00:23:58,840 Speaker 4: You don't know what the guy has that day. No, 463 00:23:59,200 --> 00:24:01,240 Speaker 4: it's just a no. But teams are going to do 464 00:24:01,280 --> 00:24:03,239 Speaker 4: it and nothing we can do about it. 465 00:24:03,680 --> 00:24:05,960 Speaker 5: I think it'll I think it'll cap. I think it'll 466 00:24:06,000 --> 00:24:09,760 Speaker 5: cap teams. I think there's some success to it. But 467 00:24:09,880 --> 00:24:13,000 Speaker 5: I think when you're talking about teams that are playoff, 468 00:24:13,040 --> 00:24:15,560 Speaker 5: fringe playoff teams, and we talk about the Marlins because 469 00:24:15,560 --> 00:24:17,520 Speaker 5: they're doing it right now, but I'm sure other organizations 470 00:24:17,520 --> 00:24:19,199 Speaker 5: want to do it. I heard the year when the 471 00:24:19,200 --> 00:24:22,879 Speaker 5: Red Sox won in twenty eighteen, the front office said 472 00:24:23,600 --> 00:24:26,760 Speaker 5: they had I think they had the best RA in baseball. 473 00:24:26,840 --> 00:24:28,640 Speaker 5: And the front office said, if you guys had listened 474 00:24:28,680 --> 00:24:32,399 Speaker 5: to us and really followed the pitch calling plan, you 475 00:24:32,440 --> 00:24:36,040 Speaker 5: would have had a half a run less RA. And 476 00:24:36,080 --> 00:24:39,000 Speaker 5: it's like, Okay, on paper, you can say that. On paper, 477 00:24:39,040 --> 00:24:40,760 Speaker 5: you can say this is what the pitch that needs 478 00:24:40,800 --> 00:24:44,360 Speaker 5: to be called. But when I'm watching today, my guy 479 00:24:44,400 --> 00:24:47,080 Speaker 5: don't have his cutter, my guy doesn't have his curveball. 480 00:24:47,119 --> 00:24:49,520 Speaker 5: He can't land it for a strike. But if you 481 00:24:49,560 --> 00:24:54,800 Speaker 5: go down the paper and you go curveball, you're you're 482 00:24:54,840 --> 00:24:57,080 Speaker 5: going to be cooked in that game. And I think 483 00:24:57,160 --> 00:24:59,720 Speaker 5: those are the games on the fringes. There's so many 484 00:24:59,720 --> 00:25:02,840 Speaker 5: things on the fringes right now in the big leagues, 485 00:25:02,880 --> 00:25:08,960 Speaker 5: from clubhouse personnel, to environment in your clubhouse, to travel 486 00:25:09,119 --> 00:25:13,200 Speaker 5: to sleep, small tiny little things that could help you 487 00:25:13,280 --> 00:25:15,280 Speaker 5: win one extra game. That's where I feel like the 488 00:25:15,320 --> 00:25:19,200 Speaker 5: pitch calling from the dugout gets in the way. At 489 00:25:19,200 --> 00:25:21,919 Speaker 5: my high school team, I would much rather have a 490 00:25:21,960 --> 00:25:25,200 Speaker 5: freshman call the games and we talk about it, learn 491 00:25:25,320 --> 00:25:30,280 Speaker 5: about it, see what's happening in the game, and when 492 00:25:30,359 --> 00:25:32,600 Speaker 5: it comes to a big moment, they already seen it. 493 00:25:32,600 --> 00:25:35,600 Speaker 5: They've seen it in action. I'm super close to the 494 00:25:36,119 --> 00:25:39,080 Speaker 5: home plate when I'm coaching high school, and I don't 495 00:25:39,080 --> 00:25:41,400 Speaker 5: see the same thing. I don't see the ball spinning. 496 00:25:41,440 --> 00:25:44,480 Speaker 5: I don't see I can read swings, but you're just 497 00:25:44,520 --> 00:25:46,439 Speaker 5: not doing that when you're looking at a paper the 498 00:25:46,440 --> 00:25:50,840 Speaker 5: whole time and saying, splitter, that's what we need to throw.