Speaker 1: Also media.
Speaker 2: Hello and welcome to Better Offline. I'm your host ed
Speaker 2: Zitra and I.
Speaker 3: Have lost the plot. I've lost the plot.
Speaker 2: Anyway, we're bag download a T shirt, log onto the newsletter,
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Speaker 2: way you could get onto the premium. It's cash. But
Speaker 2: today I am joined by two of the powerhouses from
Speaker 2: Kill the Computer. Of course, I've got Juniper and Kleb here.
Speaker 2: How are you doing?
Speaker 1: You do really great? I'm doing wonderful, awesome.
Speaker 2: Yeah. So I was just reading what appears to be
Speaker 2: a school shooter manifesto that was posted on pound.
Speaker 1: Heres AI centrist why data centers built? But really loves
Speaker 1: talking to to a chat GBT about all of his plans.
Speaker 2: But I like the first line of it the most,
Speaker 2: by the way, which is because we get asked a lot, No,
Speaker 2: you don't who is I'm constantly at Palenteer, Hey have
Speaker 2: you come up with like, oh, I don't know? Twenty
Speaker 2: two different points to explain who you are? Because another
Speaker 2: great thing about this is it does still does not
Speaker 2: explain what Palenteer is. Yeah, still don't know. True, it's
Speaker 2: evil salesforce is the best I can get to it. Like,
Speaker 2: it's just like they send forward deployment engineers to your business,
Speaker 2: they charge you a bazillion dollars in some time. I mean,
Speaker 2: it's just Oracle actually now that.
Speaker 1: My understanding is that it's like an app layered on
Speaker 1: top of like databases. Essentially, it's like what it are
Speaker 1: different companies.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, it's just I was gonna say evil Oracle,
Speaker 2: but I think that that's Oracle. That's just Oracle. I
Speaker 2: mean their first client was the CIA. Yeah, yeah, first
Speaker 2: client of Oracle with CIA. Very funny.
Speaker 4: Back in Peter Thiel did a Reddit AMA like ten
Speaker 4: years ago and he called the CIA a front four
Speaker 4: palanteer in that that was very funny.
Speaker 1: Come on, dude, I hate these people. They are like
Speaker 1: they're they're stunting on all of us all the time.
Speaker 1: They think they can just like do this ship and I.
Speaker 2: Mean it was like, come on, literally stunting in the
Speaker 2: to the extent that they're doing stuff with confidence that
Speaker 2: they shouldn't have exactly because it's like they're trading at
Speaker 2: some ridiculous earning. This is exactly the kind of thing
Speaker 2: that goes away. Also, really like the problem with government
Speaker 2: contracts is when you have them, they're awesome. When you
Speaker 2: have them, they're great when you're like to guarantee money.
Speaker 2: But if the government is ever just like, I don't
Speaker 2: know if I want to work with the manifesto brothers
Speaker 2: over here, I don't know if like, like Donald Trump.
Speaker 1: Twenty two points, that's a lot of that's a long manifesto.
Speaker 4: Second, the twenty third point that he only sent to
Speaker 4: a couple of people. If some of you are cool,
Speaker 4: don't come to school.
Speaker 2: I thought point fourteen would be a little more racist though,
Speaker 2: American power, let's actually.
Speaker 1: Go through these showy okay please?
Speaker 2: Number one. Silicon value was a moral debt to the
Speaker 2: country that made its rice possible the engineering elite. Silicon
Speaker 2: value is an affirmative obligation to participate in the defense
Speaker 2: of the nation. So, first bit, I might agree with you,
Speaker 2: do you duo society money? You you owe the most
Speaker 2: debts of gratitude. And then the second part it's like, oh,
Speaker 2: so you just care about war?
Speaker 4: Yeah, so I think it's really uh, just for context here,
Speaker 4: I've been kind of racking my brain for the first
Speaker 4: blog that we're doing over on our Killer Computer Newsporper website.
Speaker 4: I think It's really easy to interpret this as like
Speaker 4: him being cynical and be like Dinging holding his hat
Speaker 4: out money, like like you might think Elon Musk if
Speaker 4: he said this, you know, he's just asking for more
Speaker 4: tax payer money or something. It's important to remember that
Speaker 4: like Alex Cart believe in this, like very sincerely, all
Speaker 4: the stuff that he's saying. Yes, you know, there's probably
Speaker 4: some cynicism too, because he's obviously is you know, his
Speaker 4: whole business is baking money off the federal government in
Speaker 4: some ways, but he does believe every all twenty two
Speaker 4: points or sincere.
Speaker 1: I mean, I think specifically this point fourteen two especially,
Speaker 1: like he does believe these things. Peace for who this
Speaker 1: long piece for who? Sure in the imperial core here
Speaker 1: in the United States in the air quotes west, of
Speaker 1: course it feels peaceful, but we like we just started
Speaker 1: a war in Iran. That's not peace. That's like the
Speaker 1: common thing where it's like, oh yeah Israeli Israeli idea
Speaker 1: of soldiers get killed or by terrorists, but Palestinians they
Speaker 1: just you know, they died. Who knows what happened in killing? Yeah, yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: no source on that one, you know where that came from.
Speaker 4: Is interesting in that, like his entire life, he has,
Speaker 4: you know, he's especially this like a progressive Democrat that
Speaker 4: since October seventh specifically is kind of yes, absolutely, he's uh,
Speaker 4: he's you know, he voted against Trump and he fought
Speaker 4: with Peter Teel about his support of Trump. I was
Speaker 4: as recently as like twenty twenty four, it was, uh, yeah,
Speaker 4: it's actually it was October seventh that really kind of
Speaker 4: and then some like anti book stuff. I still think
Speaker 4: that he does believe in some of these things. He's
Speaker 4: just kind of going into like I don't know, midlife crisis,
Speaker 4: divorced dad, like I don't know what I believe anymore
Speaker 4: mode sort of thing.
Speaker 2: Yeah, but yeah, I he's every interview I watch with him,
Speaker 2: I feel like if I had his number and be like,
Speaker 2: hey man, call me. Yeah dude, doing all right? Man? Yeah?
Speaker 2: A little too much coffee this morning, you know what
Speaker 2: I mean, a little too much espresso.
Speaker 1: Uh.
Speaker 2: It makes you makes your face itch, and it makes
Speaker 2: you feel a little crazy. A little too much express
Speaker 2: on my head because you see a guy like this
Speaker 2: bouncing around on stage and it's like how miserable, How miserable?
Speaker 2: Like being alive must really fucking suck for you. That's
Speaker 2: I know, it's really generic to be like these people
Speaker 2: need their but like these people need friends.
Speaker 1: Yeah, like just wonderfully one guy that's outside of themselves too,
Speaker 1: because there are friends with each other. Of course, they
Speaker 1: all love to each other.
Speaker 2: They dream, fucking they don't care about each other. No
Speaker 2: one's doing a brother check in on the single. I
Speaker 2: don't think Peter.
Speaker 4: Thiel is in any place to give karpa brother check
Speaker 4: in in any case. You know, he's like, hey, man,
Speaker 4: I just interrupted my Antichrist conference to see how you're
Speaker 4: doing SI review.
Speaker 2: Are you all right? Yeah? You do it? Okay? You
Speaker 2: see them a little, you see them a little off
Speaker 2: the rails. Sorry I didn't call you back. It was
Speaker 2: just right. A sixty two thousand word screed about why
Speaker 2: woman must change. But let's continue with the manifesto. Actually
Speaker 2: another thought with zero point one. It's like the moral debt,
Speaker 2: the Silicon Valley owes the country. It's only in its defense,
Speaker 2: not making it better. Yeah, I'm making people happy, but
Speaker 2: just war.
Speaker 4: But just one more quick point. Believes his dissertation. I mean,
Speaker 4: this is all part in parcel his entire worldview he
Speaker 4: genuinely believes, so even when he was still anti Trump,
Speaker 4: he would say stuff like, well, I believe like some
Speaker 4: of his policies in the Middle East are good. His dissertation,
Speaker 4: A big part of it is the idea that aggression
Speaker 4: towards others other is like the great social glue for
Speaker 4: a nation state. So Christ, Yeah, it's very strange for
Speaker 4: like a you know, this supposedly progressive guy who I
Speaker 4: genuinely do believe think he does economically want better things possible,
Speaker 4: and you consider like the where he came from and stuff.
Speaker 4: Intellectually he does believe some of this stuff. But yeah,
Speaker 4: he wrote his old dissertation about how like, uh, you know,
Speaker 4: war and hate towards others is like a societal glue.
Speaker 2: It's also I don't mean to attack people's physical ability,
Speaker 2: but like mo' meant to be scared. What do you mate,
Speaker 2: I don't know, just like.
Speaker 1: It looks like his bone will snap if you just
Speaker 1: like blow at him.
Speaker 2: Also he seems sickly, all right, So number two we
Speaker 2: must rebel against the tyranny of the apps. Is the
Speaker 2: iPhone our greatest creative, if not crowning achievement as a
Speaker 2: civilization fucking out, get an editor, mate, the object has
Speaker 2: changed their lives. It may also now be limiting and
Speaker 2: constraining our sense of the possible. What yeah, I can
Speaker 2: I think what's great? Like, what are you fucking talking about? Like? Yeah,
Speaker 2: the iPhone was a huge deal. Is your argument that
Speaker 2: social networking is scary and bad? Because kind of agree?
Speaker 2: Is your argument that, oh, it's limiting and constraining our
Speaker 2: sense of the possible? I'm guessing this is an AI.
Speaker 4: Thing, right sort of, so he don't. I do not
Speaker 4: recommend doing this. I recently just listened to an interview
Speaker 4: of him the UTX with Barry Weiss, friend of the show.
Speaker 2: Really good, uh mind Master's it was. It was very
Speaker 2: very fun to listen to two genius Yeah, two geniuses
Speaker 2: last in the middle of the science. That awesome.
Speaker 4: But in that he kind of expounds on this idea
Speaker 4: and his his thing is basically, and actually I kind
Speaker 4: of agree with this. We have the best and brightest
Speaker 4: minds in the tech world working on you know, apps
Speaker 4: that where's the nearest sandwich or something? Right, these these
Speaker 4: are people that could be doing something that kind of
Speaker 4: goes back to his original point of like civic duty.
Speaker 4: You know, his interpretation of what civic duty or what
Speaker 4: could better this country is is probably different from minding yours,
Speaker 4: but it is logically congruent. I also think that, you know,
Speaker 4: if you understand like the tradition that he came up intellectually.
Speaker 4: He goes to study under Hobermus uh German philosopher the
Speaker 4: connected to the Frankfort School. He understands these kind of
Speaker 4: like social theories and frameworks that he kind of appropriates
Speaker 4: a little bit. And Hobbarbas's whole thing was he's like
Speaker 4: the first forum guy in history. His whole point was
Speaker 4: we can only reason through the world by arguing, And
Speaker 4: that's the guy who Karp wanted to have mentor his dissertation.
Speaker 2: He didn't.
Speaker 4: Of course that's kind of a misunderstanding, but that's the
Speaker 4: framework through which he's viewing everything. So Hobbamus also would
Speaker 4: say early technology takes people's ability to argue, to go
Speaker 4: to cafes and talk about and participate how society should
Speaker 4: look and work. So that critique of technology is also
Speaker 4: part of what Karp is trying to say here.
Speaker 2: But I'm just gonna say something that's very woke, But wow,
Speaker 2: is that a dude's opinion. Wow, is that just like,
Speaker 2: can you imagine a woman walking around just like arguing
Speaker 2: with people and not being killed within like one week.
Speaker 2: I don't mean this. I mean this just like, based
Speaker 2: on every conversation I've had with a woman, like, it
Speaker 2: appears that like the world that a woman lives in,
Speaker 2: and people of color as well, Like it is a
Speaker 2: very white guy thing to expect. Like if you just
Speaker 2: go around arguing as a woman, you're framed as emotional
Speaker 2: and crazed. If you're a person of color, you're violent
Speaker 2: and argumentative. But a white guy, well you're just it's
Speaker 2: the marketplace of ideas.
Speaker 1: Fucking he just wants to be a great man. It's
Speaker 1: just then, father.
Speaker 4: Was abros father was an advisor to the Nazi Party,
Speaker 4: and he himself was Hitler.
Speaker 1: You he was Alex carp studied under him. Well right, right,
Speaker 1: he goes.
Speaker 4: It's actually very funny. Morat Weigel, who founded a logic
Speaker 4: magazine I believe is what it's called. And she's a
Speaker 4: very brilliant writer. She kind of like dissected his whole
Speaker 4: career because for a lot of long time, a lot
Speaker 4: of people thought, oh he studied her under Hobermus, he's
Speaker 4: like this, he's connected to the Frankfurt School and this
Speaker 4: and that. Well that's like partly true. He did go
Speaker 4: there and he did have many conversations, but he tried
Speaker 4: to write this dissertation about aggression a bunch of other
Speaker 4: things too. That it's very jargony literally, and Hobbs said
Speaker 4: explicitly to him, he faxed him a three page takedown
Speaker 4: of his one of his first drafts with his dissertation
Speaker 4: that says, you are not like interesting enough to ever
Speaker 4: be taken seriously on this, he won't even be able
Speaker 4: to compete with like literary critics. And it's it was
Speaker 4: so bad that Hobbramus said, I will not mentor you
Speaker 4: for your dissertation.
Speaker 2: And that yes, Alex Carr, and that is so funny. Yeah,
Speaker 2: that's so good.
Speaker 4: Yeah shit, And this definitely is a sticking point for him.
Speaker 4: He did eulogize recently and he did talk about that
Speaker 4: how the pain of that like stuck with him. Of
Speaker 4: course it's stung, but he was like, I was actually
Speaker 4: grateful because it was like, you know, this foundational moment
Speaker 4: for me for like realizing that I would never be
Speaker 4: like an academic and I had to become a builder
Speaker 4: or something like that.
Speaker 2: It's just I don't know. I'm like. The other thing is,
Speaker 2: is you hear something like that. Every great autist story
Speaker 2: you hear like that usually ends with them continuing that.
Speaker 2: I like, yeah, I believe in my job.
Speaker 4: Didn't make the team, but he did, you know, go
Speaker 4: to bulls or Brian Wilson got the F in music class,
Speaker 4: but wrote pet sounds He and just then decided to
Speaker 4: make like Hitler Sales Force.
Speaker 2: Just a very specific period of time as well. Gino
Speaker 2: Smith said, they wrote me off. I didn't write back.
Speaker 2: Let's not think about eighteen months. Yeah, let's not think
Speaker 2: about the next part that anyway. Let's move on to
Speaker 2: point number three. Free email is not enough. The decadence
Speaker 2: of a cultural civilization and indeed it's ruling class, will
Speaker 2: be forgiven only if that culture is capable of delivering
Speaker 2: economic growth and security for the public. I was with
Speaker 2: him right up until that word security. Mom When I
Speaker 2: hear the word security, I'm like, Oh, you don't mean
Speaker 2: social services, do you?
Speaker 1: No? No, no, no, no no. I do find this
Speaker 1: when interesting overall, though, because I think you're right up
Speaker 1: until that last moment. But I think it's like a
Speaker 1: sort of admission on some level that he knows that
Speaker 1: there is like some sort of level of revolts against
Speaker 1: the liken like techno billionaire class and that they're like,
Speaker 1: you know, like like we're like. I think it's interesting
Speaker 1: that he is at least aware that something has to
Speaker 1: be done, like a little bit more than just like oh,
Speaker 1: you can talk on chat GPT or whatever. But but again,
Speaker 1: of course, I think, especially as we continue to go
Speaker 1: through this, I think a through line of all of
Speaker 1: this is how military, like, how militaristic minded it is,
Speaker 1: and like heart power and like sort of like I
Speaker 1: would say techno fascist or tech techno feudal or whatever
Speaker 1: you want to like, whatever word you want to use
Speaker 1: for this.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I'm not trying to to like, well, actually, you June,
Speaker 4: A lot of people will say techno fascism, and like,
Speaker 4: if you were to, like, I don't know, useumberto echoes,
Speaker 4: you are a fascism framework for this. It checks boxes
Speaker 4: for sure. I would just say that, like maybe the
Speaker 4: way I think the better way to frame this is
Speaker 4: for for Alex Carp's thinking is like a Cold War
Speaker 4: style liberal.
Speaker 1: Okay, you know what I mean? You expand on it.
Speaker 2: Well, so, yeah, go on, I think I might know
Speaker 2: what you made.
Speaker 4: But because he's essentially saying the tech industry needs to
Speaker 4: become the new defense sector and we.
Speaker 2: Have great enemies, right, you know what I mean? I
Speaker 2: think that there is very serious concerns. I'm not saying
Speaker 2: it's good or better. It's just you know, when you
Speaker 2: think of like what.
Speaker 4: Fascism is and what he's working for, I just think
Speaker 4: that if you're interested in having a clear out understanding
Speaker 4: of what he's saying so you can take it down better,
Speaker 4: it's I think that's maybe a little bit better of
Speaker 4: a framework, is all.
Speaker 1: I mean. I think you're right. I think it's in
Speaker 1: this as well. Later on he talks about explicitly how
Speaker 1: the previous era is ending, the post atomic era is ending,
Speaker 1: and how this is like the new AI era, and
Speaker 1: of course he wants to be on the ground floor
Speaker 1: of that. He wants to have that control on that
Speaker 1: level with him and his buddies.
Speaker 2: All right, So number four, the limits of soft power
Speaker 2: of soaring rhetoric alone have been exposed. The ability of
Speaker 2: free and democratic societies to prevail requires something more than
Speaker 2: moral appeal. It requires hard power. And hard power in
Speaker 2: this century will be built on software. Very self serving. Yeah,
Speaker 2: just like, ah, you know something's not working. But this
Speaker 2: other thing that I make, what do you think what
Speaker 2: that one is? Just like, yeah, that one is built
Speaker 2: to be into that. It reminds me of every college
Speaker 2: philosophy student I've ever made, where they say things that
Speaker 2: are built to kind of tweak your brain and go, damn,
Speaker 2: that guy's smart when you actually think about them. Don't
Speaker 2: mean a single fucking thing. What do you mean soft power?
Speaker 2: Because if the argument was falling into the trap here,
Speaker 2: if the argument was that the korum alone doesn't work, yeah,
Speaker 2: that's true if your thing is just someone will obey
Speaker 2: the rules always. Yeah, Trump has proven that isn't the
Speaker 2: case of just ignore it. I don't think that's what
Speaker 2: he means. I think what he's saying is that saying
Speaker 2: you have guns isn't enough. You need evil salesforce Like
Speaker 2: that's that really doesn't feel to be And yeah, I
Speaker 2: don't know. I just I read this sentence. I'm like,
Speaker 2: this guy's fucking stupid.
Speaker 1: It's like. The interesting thing about this too, is because
Speaker 1: most people generally don't like palant here and they never
Speaker 1: say what the company itself is. If you read this
Speaker 1: and don't quite know what this is, it makes it
Speaker 1: sound like they're like a weapons manufacturer, Like the way
Speaker 1: they're talking about like hard power, this will be the
Speaker 1: hard power that we need to rule the next century.
Speaker 1: And it's like, I mean, obviously they work with the CIA,
Speaker 1: they work with Israel. They do have these connections in
Speaker 1: these very hard power states where they are just very
Speaker 1: fine with triple tapping children's elementary schools in Iran, and
Speaker 1: they're like, eh, I mean ethics, who I don't know
Speaker 1: about that? Like who cares? We shouldn't care about that. That's
Speaker 1: that's weak thinking, that's soft thinking. So I think that's
Speaker 1: like a part of it there too. But it's also
Speaker 1: like no one knows what this is, like no one,
Speaker 1: no one knows this, this isn't I think on a
Speaker 1: level they're sort of drinking their own kool aid in
Speaker 1: a sense of just like how much of this will
Speaker 1: be like the next atomic era. I do think a
Speaker 1: lot of this is dangerous, especially with propaganda, you know,
Speaker 1: like the amount of propaganda you can do just like
Speaker 1: blast out with AI generally or some of this stuff.
Speaker 1: But I think they're I mean he's trying to huff.
Speaker 1: He's trying to get everyone to huff his own glue
Speaker 1: at the same time.
Speaker 2: Well, it's funny you'd mentioned the AI weapons thing, because
Speaker 2: the next one, number five is the question is not
Speaker 2: whether AI weapons will be built, it's who will build
Speaker 2: them and for what purpose. Our adversaries will not pause
Speaker 2: to indulge in theatrical debates about the merits of developing
Speaker 2: technologies with critical military and national security applications. They will proceed.
Speaker 2: So what's great about this is we do know who's
Speaker 2: building them Anderill, we do know how that's going poorly,
Speaker 2: badly enough that ANDREL had to pull out of Ukraine. Sorry,
Speaker 2: I mean they were kicked out.
Speaker 1: I didn't.
Speaker 2: And also, yeah, numerous government agencies water journal support. There's
Speaker 2: also they lose billions of dollars. But that's cool. I
Speaker 2: guess it's just like it's like, it's not a question
Speaker 2: whether AI weapons. Yeah, they're being built already. That happened already,
Speaker 2: And it's nothing to do with generative AI. It's nothing
Speaker 2: to do with large language models. If he had the
Speaker 2: large language model trying and control something, it wouldn't move
Speaker 2: because they can't do it. It would be a fucking
Speaker 2: huge pain in the ass. But let's move on to
Speaker 2: number six. National service should be a universal duty. We
Speaker 2: should as a society seriously consider moving away from an
Speaker 2: all volunteer force and only fight the next war if
Speaker 2: everyone shares in the risk and cost. Dude, what are
Speaker 2: you fucking talking? We do sharing the costs. Also, also
Speaker 2: we do share in the cost we pay taxes.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's even dude, I think it's even sinister. Though,
Speaker 1: I think he's talking about the Israeli IDF conscription system.
Speaker 1: He wants everyone I think that's what he's saying here
Speaker 1: to be involved in the military or or like auxiliary
Speaker 1: to it in the way that Israel is because like
Speaker 1: you know how it is whenever you talk about like
Speaker 1: I keep bringing up Israel because I think I think
Speaker 1: a lot of this At least when I read this,
Speaker 1: I'm like, oh my god, this is like Israeli playbook
Speaker 1: on so many different levels here, especially this one where
Speaker 1: it's like everyone is involved in the war crimes. So like,
Speaker 1: if you talk to any person from Israel, most of
Speaker 1: the time they'll be like, well, my family was on
Speaker 1: the idea. If you can't hate all of the idea,
Speaker 1: if you can't hate all Israelis, but they were all
Speaker 1: in the IDF. It's like, that's sort of I think
Speaker 1: the buy in that he wants the country to have.
Speaker 1: This is the point. I think a lot of this
Speaker 1: was really bad when I was first reading this, but
Speaker 1: I got the point six and I was like, Okay,
Speaker 1: a palanteer is sort of like they should be viewed
Speaker 1: as an enemy of modern society. They want us to
Speaker 1: go to like a wartime economy. They want us to
Speaker 1: like move towards this idea that every like war time
Speaker 1: is normal and it should be good because it benefits
Speaker 1: their bottom line.
Speaker 2: And that's the thing I've read a decent amount of people,
Speaker 2: decent amount of people that's saying that Silicon Valley's trying
Speaker 2: to jump into defense because they're running out of shit
Speaker 2: to sell. Yeah, Google just signed a deal with I
Speaker 2: think some part I think there's some part of the
Speaker 2: government maybe I need to look of at CBP have it.
Speaker 2: But like they just signed a secretive deal and five
Speaker 2: hundred people signed a petition.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's like, we're not in the business of surveillance.
Speaker 1: And it's like, bitch, what do you think this is.
Speaker 2: Other than other than every Google ad product.
Speaker 1: Yeah, they're fine with that. Surveillance, but okay, surveillance.
Speaker 2: Number seven is a classic. If a US marine asks
Speaker 2: for a better rifle, we should build it, Which is
Speaker 2: really funny if you know a single thing about the
Speaker 2: government's relationship with gun companies, considering that, I forget that
Speaker 2: there was a specific gun built for the military that
Speaker 2: just did not work out, Like that's happened many times before. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 2: it's like, but also, we should try as a company. Sorry,
Speaker 2: we should try as a country. We should, as a country,
Speaker 2: Jesus Christ, be capable of continuing a debate about the
Speaker 2: appropriateness of military action abroad while remaining unflinching in our
Speaker 2: commitment to those we have asked a step into harm's way. Sure,
Speaker 2: it's fine.
Speaker 1: I mean, he's so sucking there. He's like, yeah, we'll
Speaker 1: do better. We'll be just like the military.
Speaker 2: Public Number right, Public servants need to need not be
Speaker 2: our priests. Any business that compensated his employees in the
Speaker 2: way that the federal government compensates public service servants would
Speaker 2: struggle to survive.
Speaker 1: All right, what do you mean? My My interpretation here is,
Speaker 1: do you remember when Elon Musk bought Twitter? And it
Speaker 1: was this sort of pandemonium, and he was like, you
Speaker 1: guys have to work for twelve hours, you have to
Speaker 1: sleep here. If you don't do these things, we're laying
Speaker 1: you off. This is like, this is this is going
Speaker 1: to be hard, actual real work. Like no more sitting
Speaker 1: around on bouncy balls anymore. No no bouncing on those
Speaker 1: bounty balls in the office anymore. This is like, this
Speaker 1: is what you do to get Really, it's like basically
Speaker 1: what he's think. I think what he's trying to say
Speaker 1: is that's just going to be the norm. That should
Speaker 1: be the norm, and maybe tech companies, but more broadly
Speaker 1: that that should be like the line of thinking for
Speaker 1: people that own companies at the top. This should be
Speaker 1: the like top down approach to run a company efficiently.
Speaker 2: But I think he might also be saying that public
Speaker 2: servants are on the page, which I kind of agree with.
Speaker 1: I see. I think he's as long.
Speaker 2: As you're not in Congress and have stocks, in which
Speaker 2: case you'll overcome and sate.
Speaker 1: I think he's sort of low key shitting on the
Speaker 1: government as a whole here.
Speaker 2: He's doing that.
Speaker 4: He's also targeting academia. He talks about his since like
Speaker 4: the I think his like schism from a lot of
Speaker 4: things comes from like the campus protests at post October seventh,
Speaker 4: and he has since I mean, if you listen, don't
Speaker 4: but if you do listen to that Barry Wise conversation,
Speaker 4: you know, he talks about, you know, this a lot
Speaker 4: to the you know, a bunch of farm animal sounds
Speaker 4: from the crowd because.
Speaker 2: About how like, you know.
Speaker 4: We can't college He's basically his, oh well, you can't
Speaker 4: have like queer interpretive dance therapy classes if the government
Speaker 4: is going to pay for it. And you know, these
Speaker 4: college professors are trying to you know, if we're giving
Speaker 4: them public funds, we have to kind of hold them
Speaker 4: to a different standard and stuff like that too. So
Speaker 4: I think it definitely applies to bureaucrats. But just it's
Speaker 4: important to remember that he hates he's he hates woke
Speaker 4: college campuses or whatever.
Speaker 1: I knew he was like sort of nominally pro Israel.
Speaker 1: I mean, they've palunteers worked with Israel for so I
Speaker 1: knew that, but dreams I didn't realize he made such
Speaker 1: an explicit turn from like sort of I guess it
Speaker 1: sounds like a liberal Zionism to a very hard line,
Speaker 1: sort of far right type Zionism in the last couple
Speaker 1: of years. I was not aware of that shift of his.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I support Irish Zionism.
Speaker 1: From colnor Melly, I started, Uh, don't worry. I started
Speaker 1: doing my own blanket tours a couple of weeks ago.
Speaker 1: Don't worry.
Speaker 2: Okay, So moving on, non beniine, non benine. We should
Speaker 2: show far more grace towards those who have subjected themselves
Speaker 2: to public life. The eradication of any space for forgiveness,
Speaker 2: a jettisoning of any tolerance for the complexities and contradictions
Speaker 2: of the human psyche, may leave us with the cast
Speaker 2: of characters of the helm we will grow to regret.
Speaker 2: Just to be clear, last year, Alex carp suggested that
Speaker 2: analysts that disagree with Palante should be sprayed with ventanal
Speaker 2: laced urine from drones. It's just the same guys.
Speaker 1: So hard. It's so hard with cancel culture, you know,
Speaker 1: it's really.
Speaker 2: With these big, fucking tough guys who've got some tough
Speaker 2: some strong and big and tough. Don't put my feetlings,
Speaker 2: don't mean to me, Okay, have some forgiveness, you piece
Speaker 2: of fucking shit.
Speaker 1: You know, it's really hard on us when you press
Speaker 1: the button Neckells one hundred and eighty school children. Have
Speaker 1: you thought about us? Have you really just thought about
Speaker 1: that when you criticize us for doing that, how that
Speaker 1: makes us feel?
Speaker 2: Have you thought about the fact that I'm worth so
Speaker 2: much money, and I make money constantly. The things I
Speaker 2: make money for kill people. And I go out and
Speaker 2: I say noxious, horrible things all the time, and the
Speaker 2: people that I powder around with are horrible too, and
Speaker 2: they say equally noxious, if not more noxious things. And
Speaker 2: I'm disgusting and mean and cruel. In everything I do
Speaker 2: and say. I encourage people to act in the same way.
Speaker 2: Have you considered for a second that if you were
Speaker 2: not mean to me, things would be better.
Speaker 1: It drives me crazy how all of these people are
Speaker 1: are simultaneously tough guys but the whiniest, the biggest babies
Speaker 1: of all time. I shot someone online talked about like, yeah, wow.
Speaker 1: Ever since Trump became elected, I've noticed that like all
Speaker 1: of a sudden, all of a sudden, right wingers whine
Speaker 1: a lot, and it's like, motherfucker, They've always been like this,
Speaker 1: like this is their They're they're operating like, this is
Speaker 1: how they operate. This is what they do. They whine.
Speaker 1: They whine until they get what they want. They whine
Speaker 1: about getting what they want.
Speaker 2: I forget was I think it's Caleb Pitts. Maybe he
Speaker 2: has a great stand up comedy thing where he's walking
Speaker 2: around he bold guy, and he has eight shit tattooed
Speaker 2: in his head and he looks like the camera goes,
Speaker 2: guess who just got it kicked out of a cafe
Speaker 2: for beer. Wh Yeah, I love it's just that every day.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I think that this one and into the next
Speaker 4: point to are kind of connected in that kind of
Speaker 4: harbromous sense of like you have to be able to
Speaker 4: like discourse, you have to be able to debate and
Speaker 4: fight on the forms of people that you disagree with,
Speaker 4: and like if you cancel your opponents, you'll have no
Speaker 4: one left to argue with, right, And that argument is
Speaker 4: I'm not I'm joking a little bit, but that is
Speaker 4: like essentral to his like core idological belief.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's it's amazing how many people like get Twitter
Speaker 1: psychosists and bring it out into like everything they do
Speaker 1: in real life. It's it's astounding.
Speaker 2: So point number ten as we've hitted. The psychologization of
Speaker 2: modern politics is leading us astray. Those who look to
Speaker 2: the political arena to nourish their soul and sense of self,
Speaker 2: who rely too heavily on their internal life finding expression
Speaker 2: in people they have never met, will be left disappointed.
Speaker 2: M Well, well, I mean I gave him that one,
Speaker 2: but also I'm not sure he realizes the actual problem.
Speaker 1: When I when I read this, Have you guys seen
Speaker 1: this new phrase that's been that's Elon Musk helped blow
Speaker 1: up in the last year or so, the suicidal empathy thing?
Speaker 1: Have you had? You guys? See? It's basically this concept
Speaker 1: where that if you care too much about other people,
Speaker 1: you will always like like. The way it's traditionally used
Speaker 1: is like, oh, you care about Palestinian people, you think
Speaker 1: that they should have rights, But have you thought about
Speaker 1: white people like You're you're sacrificing white people for like
Speaker 1: thinking about like trans rights. Trans rights are taking so
Speaker 1: much away from like sis people. It's basically the concept
Speaker 1: of if you care so much about other people, you
Speaker 1: will shrink the majority white like rights. Essentially a completely.
Speaker 2: I think not people who have too much and the
Speaker 2: people who have to it or would have similar amounts
Speaker 2: of stuff. Whoa whoa, whoa whoa whoa?
Speaker 1: What if I want adjacent to like white supremacy and
Speaker 1: like the great replacement theory, it's like super adjacent to
Speaker 1: all that type of ship. But I just can't help
Speaker 1: but think of this. It's like, you know, I think, Caleb,
Speaker 1: your one hundred percent right, it's adjacent to number nine
Speaker 1: in that in that same way that you were atligning before.
Speaker 1: But I also think it's it's sort of this thing
Speaker 1: where it's like we can't really care about people too much.
Speaker 1: We really can't care about the consequences that might hurt,
Speaker 1: like I don't know, gay people or whoever. Like that's
Speaker 1: like sort of that's that's missing the forest for the
Speaker 1: trees for them is like what they're thinking.
Speaker 2: Eleven point eleven is our society has grown too eager
Speaker 2: to hasten and is often gleeful at the demise of
Speaker 2: its enemies.
Speaker 1: Exactly all of these are yeah of.
Speaker 2: An opponent is a moment to pause, not rejoice. Well,
Speaker 2: have you talked to your customers about this? You have you?
Speaker 2: Have you done a little bit of customer experience work?
Speaker 2: Alex not sure customers would agree. It's also just like
Speaker 2: very funny, because this is someone who loves his enemy
Speaker 2: is suffering. He loves, he takes glee in the suffering
Speaker 2: of those he disagrees with.
Speaker 4: In that saying Berry Weiss interview, he I think the
Speaker 4: term that he used when I may be wrong, but
Speaker 4: no one's gonna listen is to correct me anyway, sat Safe.
Speaker 4: He said something along the lines of like America should
Speaker 4: take pride when it uses force because we're a just
Speaker 4: nation or something.
Speaker 2: Oh my God, Jesus Christ. Okay, I feel like that
Speaker 2: word pride probably not something that come out of his mouth.
Speaker 1: M it's also just wild, especially this year, as recent
Speaker 1: as of like three months ago. And and I think
Speaker 1: the reason for this is he doesn't view these people
Speaker 1: like as enemies, even though you know the way that ICE.
Speaker 1: I'm talking about the way that ICE uses Pallenteer to
Speaker 1: like find find people to depart, scans regions, and I
Speaker 1: think they use like some face scanning system in their database.
Speaker 1: ICE has as well where it's like people are so
Speaker 1: gleeful whenever people get departed, they're fucking over the moon.
Speaker 1: They post about it. The government accounts on social media
Speaker 1: post like epic Aura gen Z brain rot edits about
Speaker 1: about depicts so embarrassing, but agree, but I think to
Speaker 1: finish this thought, they don't see that as like demise
Speaker 1: of enemies. That is not what I think they think.
Speaker 4: But go on, Sorry, yeah, yeah, you're you're You're totally fine.
Speaker 4: I'm not saying I agree with Kart, but specifically about Ice,
Speaker 4: his point was, you know, if you are somebody who's
Speaker 4: concerned with this, you would want volunteer did to succeed,
Speaker 4: because then that means we only deport people who deserve it,
Speaker 4: who have done cross.
Speaker 1: I mean, fuck it.
Speaker 4: So again, I'm just saying I'm not saying I agree that.
Speaker 4: What I am saying is it matters because he does
Speaker 4: believe he's high on his own supply.
Speaker 1: Yeah, no, I think you're so right. I always go
Speaker 1: back and forth on whether these tech people truly believe
Speaker 1: the things that they say. I think Elon Musk probably
Speaker 1: on most degrees does. I think he bullshits a lot.
Speaker 1: But I think I think you're right. I think just
Speaker 1: in this recording, I think you've completely convinced me that
Speaker 1: Alex Karp absolutely there are.
Speaker 4: Some elements of cynicism to this, but most of this
Speaker 4: I think he does believe, and I would SA, I
Speaker 4: would agree with you on Elon when he's talking about
Speaker 4: how like empathy is a bug or something like that.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 4: I'm not a psychologist and I'm not even trying to
Speaker 4: do that smart. But he has this kind of like
Speaker 4: an attachment style because of his abusive father that I
Speaker 4: think necessitates that he sort of intellectualized or abstracts concepts
Speaker 4: like empathy to such a degree that he would say,
Speaker 4: you know, I have empathy from mankind, but not on
Speaker 4: the individual, and it's a societal bug, right.
Speaker 1: Yeah, so it's a weakness, a sign of weakness, yeah, empathy.
Speaker 4: Correct, because because he can't, he can't negotiate with or
Speaker 4: engage with with empathy like a person who hasn't experienced
Speaker 4: abuse from a terrible father could, right.
Speaker 2: I don't know. I don't feel like Elon believes in anything.
Speaker 2: I genuinely think that he always I think the oh.
Speaker 2: I think he has deep seated racism, I truly, and
Speaker 2: he's a sexist, absolutely, But I don't think he's sitting
Speaker 2: there and is like could explain all sorts of deep
Speaker 2: sincere thoughts. I think it's whatever would get him what
Speaker 2: he wanted. If there was a Democrat and power giving
Speaker 2: him everything he wanted. He would be the word Well
Speaker 2: I mean I said democrat, uh political, Yeah, there we go. No,
Speaker 2: And it's just it's just I've watched this this guy
Speaker 2: for years and just he used to be an epic
Speaker 2: bacon science guy. Yeah, he was an epic bacon science guy.
Speaker 2: And he's he's now just like he sits online with
Speaker 2: too much maybeing like I, well, yes, yes, horses, he
Speaker 2: had fifty two. I agree, there's time for the great cleansing.
Speaker 2: It's just and even with this list, it's like Alex
Speaker 2: carp you run a software company. Mate, You're not president,
Speaker 2: You're not even a politician. You got like you didn't
Speaker 2: get into racism school, Like I like what, like who
Speaker 2: gives a fuck what you think? You make? Evil sales force?
Speaker 2: Like so, okay, numbers.
Speaker 1: Is maybe a better question for the end. But I've
Speaker 1: I've just been thinking why we're only halfway through, but like,
Speaker 1: why did they post this? Like it's a like they're
Speaker 1: trying to make like.
Speaker 2: From the I can actually tell you so from a
Speaker 2: client perspective, this is some ship that you're sent at
Speaker 2: five in the morning on a Sunday or a Saturday,
Speaker 2: like a Sunday morning. You get this and the client's like,
Speaker 2: I'm gonna put this up on Monday. We'll put this,
Speaker 2: We'll put that Soday, April eighteenth. This is posted. Let's
Speaker 2: see what day this was. Okay, oh fuck yeah. This
Speaker 2: is posted on a Saturday surday on a Friday. So yeah,
Speaker 2: some poor PR person got a fuck it an email
Speaker 2: Friday at like seven pm, eight pm and he's at
Speaker 2: he's like with his wife and kids, trying to eat dinner.
Speaker 2: He's like, I'm going to post this tomorrow. I'm going
Speaker 2: to post this. It was posted at eleven forty five am. Okay,
Speaker 2: So so okay, so you're talking like it was like
Speaker 2: eight forty five am Eastern Pacific. Anyway, putting all that aside,
Speaker 2: so this was just I'm going to post this tomorrow.
Speaker 2: And the guy was probably like, well, Alex, it's not
Speaker 2: got any formatting or numbers. It's just a block of text.
Speaker 2: We should at least put it in a numbered list.
Speaker 2: Go well, okay, okay, I need to post this now,
Speaker 2: post it tomorrow. And it was probably the thought was, Okay,
Speaker 2: this guy on a Saturday, I can convince it. Yeah,
Speaker 2: you should post it. Immediately on the Saturday, so everyone
Speaker 2: missed it. Except the problem is is there. Everyone saw
Speaker 2: it because it's the fucking pound to account. But it's
Speaker 2: just no, this is a this is client's gone wild.
Speaker 2: This is client. Client has an idea that they are
Speaker 2: one hundred. You could client sends you something like this,
Speaker 2: You could not talk them away from it. You put
Speaker 2: a gun to their head, they'll they'll say, kill me.
Speaker 1: Isn't this just a summary of the main points of
Speaker 1: Alex Herp's book that came out like a year ago,
Speaker 1: like thee Yeah, this is a summary. This is a
Speaker 1: summary of one of his books. Essentially realized we had
Speaker 1: a fucking book. Oh he did?
Speaker 2: He Power Soft Belief and.
Speaker 1: It's do you know who that guy is? Caleb? Have
Speaker 1: you ever looked into the Nicholas is a misker?
Speaker 4: Yeah, he's he's there like a legal con He's the lawyer.
Speaker 1: Damn fucking lawyer.
Speaker 2: Honestly, if I was if I worked at Palantinero, I
Speaker 2: was thinking who should co write this? I would say
Speaker 2: a lawyer. I'd be like, yeah, yeah, yeah, you should
Speaker 2: have a lawyer read every word, just in case, especially
Speaker 2: every fourteenth word. If you know what I mean, but okay,
Speaker 2: we move on number twelve. The atomic age is ending
Speaker 2: once an age of the Terrance. The atomic age once
Speaker 2: one age of the Terrance Comma. The atomic age Comma
Speaker 2: is ending Comma, and a new era of the Terrance
Speaker 2: built on AI is set to begin. No, it is
Speaker 2: not just no, no, it's not what are you talking about?
Speaker 2: What do you mean?
Speaker 3: Uh?
Speaker 2: The chat bart Because if we're talking about AI powered databases,
Speaker 2: if we're talking about like databases of people pre crime
Speaker 2: and that we have fucking compass since the eighties. We
Speaker 2: have had algorithms for pre crime. Since the eighties, we
Speaker 2: have had the fucking promise software was the underlying thing
Speaker 2: with back nor stories weld like it's a crazy story.
Speaker 2: You should look at the promise software. You're going to
Speaker 2: see it will ruin your life. Are you fucking I
Speaker 2: have a hobby. For the rest of them, it'll fuck
Speaker 2: you up big time. Big up to my girlfriend for
Speaker 2: telling me on that one that what like we have
Speaker 2: had this already, Like, if we're talking about AI pre
Speaker 2: crime surveillance, we've had this already. What are we talking about?
Speaker 2: But because AIS, then you bing bong that everyone must
Speaker 2: jerk off. It's like Okay, yeah, well now it's that
Speaker 2: you know what, that's a classic client point as well.
Speaker 2: That is actually it's like we need to get this
Speaker 2: is really good point. Yeah, we should add AI at
Speaker 2: the end. What do you mean what do you mean AI?
Speaker 2: I'm not really sure how that What does the AI
Speaker 2: deter how does it? What's it deterrigan? Like it is
Speaker 2: the idea that we'll be able to generate more nudes,
Speaker 2: like but the Chinese already.
Speaker 4: Seen about undetectable deep fakes of Kim Jong. What's the
Speaker 4: what are we doing?
Speaker 2: Like this will be generate epic bacon memes of our adversaries.
Speaker 4: Just this, timing wise, was not that far after when
Speaker 4: you remember you guys, remember this. This is a really
Speaker 4: small blip on the radar, but it's stuck with me.
Speaker 4: Was when they when r FK was like, oh, the
Speaker 4: Department of Health or whatever, we're releasing our own like
Speaker 4: health AI, bod do you remember that?
Speaker 2: No?
Speaker 1: I missed that.
Speaker 4: The first thing I did on there, I was like,
Speaker 4: I asked it what kind of rocks are the most
Speaker 4: nutritious to eat?
Speaker 2: Smiley face, and it gave me a list of rock.
Speaker 1: The age of a Come on, No I think I
Speaker 1: think this, Yeah, this gives the game away that they're like, actually,
Speaker 1: can we have the spotlight now please? Like it's like
Speaker 1: if we get the spotlight, we'll survive as companies. Like
Speaker 1: just keep funneling us all of this money. Keep keep
Speaker 1: keep shoving it over, keep price high. Yeah, like we
Speaker 1: need that.
Speaker 2: Yeah, keep keep His next point is the funniest. No
Speaker 2: other country in the history of the world has advanced
Speaker 2: progressive values more than this one. The United States is
Speaker 2: far from perfect, but it is easy to forget how
Speaker 2: much more opportunity exists in this country for those who
Speaker 2: are not hereditary elites than in any other nation on
Speaker 2: the planet.
Speaker 1: God damn dude. I guess if you're maybe talking about
Speaker 1: Russia currently, maybe, like if that's the only other country
Speaker 1: in the world.
Speaker 4: Sure, he defines progressive values in this statement as like
Speaker 4: non hereditary elites becoming CEOs.
Speaker 2: That's not what most people will define.
Speaker 1: As like a progressive value, right, definitely.
Speaker 2: It just that kind of gives away the game all So,
Speaker 2: just like, what does he mean based on like the
Speaker 2: history of America, I wouldn't say, like, I think it
Speaker 2: was more defined as a battle against progressive values in
Speaker 2: some cases history of Portland. For example, look into the
Speaker 2: Portland Police Department. Oh, I don't know, look at the
Speaker 2: current police department of pretty much every city.
Speaker 1: And I mean just the police department. Just the government
Speaker 1: actively currently trying to erase history of like like black history,
Speaker 1: like LGBTQ history, like a racing out off of monuments
Speaker 1: and taking like taking away monuments in some cases, they're
Speaker 1: racing school systems, and like, I don't think it's true,
Speaker 1: Like like I don't, Yeah, it's just not necessarily true.
Speaker 1: Like we are still a lot of people love to
Speaker 1: be like wow, like we like whenever whenever you talk
Speaker 1: about like Palestine, it's like, oh, well you're you're gay
Speaker 1: and you support Palestine, they'd throw you off roofs. False.
Speaker 1: First of all. Second of all, it was illegal you
Speaker 1: could not gay Mary in this country until ten years ago.
Speaker 1: It's like, yeah, like like what are we talking about?
Speaker 1: People were killed for being gay on the streets thirty
Speaker 1: years ago in this country, Like what are we talking
Speaker 1: about here?
Speaker 2: Like police force arresting people of color arbitrarily.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's like we are sure, Like I'll I guess
Speaker 1: I'll hand it to him. We are far from perfect,
Speaker 1: but I think we're further from perfect than we've done progressives.
Speaker 2: But we also seem to be trying to undo those Anyway,
Speaker 2: Don't worry, We've got another really smart port coming up.
Speaker 2: Number fourteen. American power has made possible and extraordinarily long piece,
Speaker 2: so too many have forgotten or perhaps taken for granted.
Speaker 2: And nearly a century if some version of pieces prevailed
Speaker 2: in the world without a great power military conflict, what
Speaker 2: the piece? Peace for who? Peace for who? Yeahs. Billions
Speaker 2: of people and their children and now grandchildren have never
Speaker 2: known a world war.
Speaker 1: Literally, those are the only wars that have happened in
Speaker 1: the last hundred years. There's like a there's a trillion
Speaker 1: of them. We've since we've started. The United States alone
Speaker 1: have started what like ten twelve thirteen wars since World
Speaker 1: War Two. We've killed so many people, a million people,
Speaker 1: like a minimum a million people in Jakarta. Like the
Speaker 1: amount of terror we have reigned on the world. It's like, sure,
Speaker 1: it's not war for us, it's not war on our territory,
Speaker 1: it's not war on our ground, but it is war.
Speaker 1: It is devastation, it is terrorism across It's perpetual.
Speaker 2: There's been war everywhere yeah, if you're a fucking ignorant monster,
Speaker 2: if you want to pretend that like America has been
Speaker 2: in a war the whole time is yeah, anyway, here's
Speaker 2: another great paper.
Speaker 1: There's also different countries also doing wars, like I don't know,
Speaker 1: like there is not long piece.
Speaker 2: Yes, don't man none, you know, what's the little hourist
Speaker 2: over there? And anyway? Number fifteen post war, the post
Speaker 2: war neutering of Germany and Japan must be undone. The
Speaker 2: defanging of Germany was an overcorrection for which Europe is
Speaker 2: now paying a heavy price. A similar and highly theatrical
Speaker 2: commitment to Japanese pacifism will, if maintained, also threatened to
Speaker 2: shift the bounce of par in Asia. What are you
Speaker 2: talking about? What are you talking about? What are you
Speaker 2: talking about?
Speaker 1: I like this idea that if Japan could have a military,
Speaker 1: they're they're problems, they're they're like everything that's going wrong
Speaker 1: in Japan right now would be fine.
Speaker 4: Oh yes, it's a it's a it's a counterbalance to China,
Speaker 4: is what he's getting at.
Speaker 1: I do, I do agree with that, but I just
Speaker 1: don't understand what a military of the size of Japan
Speaker 1: could do to like at this point, especially like even
Speaker 1: just giving him like let's say today they could, you know,
Speaker 1: build up a military. What what are they gonna like,
Speaker 1: how is that going to change the current situation. I
Speaker 1: think it's just like the word over correction to it,
Speaker 1: I think is very telling. It's like, Okay, you don't
Speaker 1: really have It's interesting Germany, it came from a progress yeah, Germany.
Speaker 1: I think it's interesting that you have laid out that
Speaker 1: he's sort of come from like a more left leaning
Speaker 1: sort of history, because this is not something I would
Speaker 1: imagine someone and again he changed more recently, but like
Speaker 1: Germany and Japan especially, it's like I feel like everyone
Speaker 1: knows why they cannot have military. What happened Alex, Yeah,
Speaker 1: what happened in the forties.
Speaker 4: Well, I can't speak to Japan, despite you know, the
Speaker 4: obvious kind of surface level that's a kind of alist
Speaker 4: to China. Think in his you know, his history and
Speaker 4: I don't know if the book, I haven't finished the
Speaker 4: book yet, I'm still reading it. But in his life,
Speaker 4: he did go to Germany, and I think he moved
Speaker 4: for school in is the eighties or early nineties when
Speaker 4: he was studying there, and a lot of his politics
Speaker 4: and his the things that he believed in are a
Speaker 4: sort of direct confrontation of like post war Germany and
Speaker 4: the things that he saw in that society is very
Speaker 4: interesting and just I think that he saw he really
Speaker 4: and this is a Harbromus thing too, of like what
Speaker 4: kind of national identity should Germans have in the wake
Speaker 4: of this, you know, existential death of humanity That informs
Speaker 4: karp thinking quite a bit. And when you think about
Speaker 4: his whole idea is like aggression is social cohesion. It
Speaker 4: starts to make sense when he says, well, maybe Germany
Speaker 4: should be allowed to have a military. It's kind of
Speaker 4: to be clear, I don't He's not a Nazi, He's Jewish,
Speaker 4: but it's still very kind of fucking crazy to think
Speaker 4: about this, and especially when you think about how openly
Speaker 4: he engages with fascist and Nazi ideals, you know, again
Speaker 4: from the point of argument as a reasoning tool.
Speaker 1: But still it's like, I mean, I think we're gonna
Speaker 1: get up to a point fairly soon. Sort of related
Speaker 1: to this in that way, but like, I think it's
Speaker 1: interesting that a lot of tech people in the United
Speaker 1: States and then in like the last couple of years
Speaker 1: have started doing this thing where it's like we unapologetically
Speaker 1: do this, we unapologetically believe this. Like they're like there's
Speaker 1: like this shamed like where they like, you cannot have
Speaker 1: shame for anything you ever do, you cannot be introspective
Speaker 1: like Mark Andresen he was talking about, like, oh, you know,
Speaker 1: it's like it's so it's it's it's a weakness to
Speaker 1: have introspection. I think that sort of linked to that,
Speaker 1: that way where it's like we can't apologize for like
Speaker 1: actions or whatever.
Speaker 2: You know, Yeah, it's isn't that Roger Stone thing as well,
Speaker 2: like never apologize that?
Speaker 1: Yeah, oh my god, Yeah yeah, it probably came from him,
Speaker 1: to be honest.
Speaker 2: Yeah, they don't have ideas, But let's go on to
Speaker 2: one of the other ones they claim to have. Number sixteen.
Speaker 2: We should applaud those who attempt to build where the
Speaker 2: market has failed to act. The culture almost snickers that
Speaker 2: musks interest in grand narrative, as if billionaires or to
Speaker 2: simply stay in their line if enriching themselves. Any curiosity
Speaker 2: or genuine interest in the value of what he has
Speaker 2: created is essentially dismissed. Perhaps looks from beneath then leave
Speaker 2: veiled scorn that would suggest he's created.
Speaker 4: Something now and I'm not an expert in this field.
Speaker 4: Maybe this is a question for you. But wasn't Elon
Speaker 4: Musk forced to purchase Twitter because he made an epic meme?
Speaker 2: Because he made he was epic and based and said
Speaker 2: I will buy this and then when he tried to
Speaker 2: walk out, they were like, no, you agreed to buy
Speaker 2: this fucking website. Shit, give us the money interest, doctor
Speaker 2: carp excuse me. Also, let's talk about some of the
Speaker 2: things the Elon Musk has talked about. Robots doesn't exist,
Speaker 2: Robot taxis doesn't exist. Uh, Tesla Roadstar with rockets on,
Speaker 2: it doesn't exist. Just like the reason people snicker and
Speaker 2: jeer Elon Musk is he says something will happen and
Speaker 2: then it doesn't, and then he's like, well it's it's
Speaker 2: delayed until the year of the base Tiger. It's just
Speaker 2: like and everyone just goes, okay, Well, if we had
Speaker 2: a functioning business tech media, they would stop printing what
Speaker 2: he says.
Speaker 1: My god, but they.
Speaker 2: Would just go like, oh, yeah, this guy is lying.
Speaker 2: But it's funny because this is this only ever comes
Speaker 2: from incurious dullards. It's never people who create a lot
Speaker 2: of stuff who are like, hey, Elon Musks fucking trying Okay,
Speaker 2: he's trying to create something where you sit here from
Speaker 2: the peanut gallery. It's never like artists or writers who
Speaker 2: have written meaningful shit, or like authors. It's always guys
Speaker 2: like this, executives of software companies who could be replaced
Speaker 2: with anyone, like, let's be honest, like what makes Alex
Speaker 2: Copp uniquely the person's run palenteer. There's probably eighteen different
Speaker 2: Lockheed Martin, Dargoyles or fucking former Hanwar executives who could
Speaker 2: be slotted in and we would never know the difference
Speaker 2: other than the fact that we wouldn't have to fucking
Speaker 2: hear from them all the time. Because you notice, we
Speaker 2: don't hear from fucking Lockheed Martin ceo. We don't hear
Speaker 2: from the CEO of Artix, Nay Raytheon. We don't hear
Speaker 2: from these We don't know who they are because they don't.
Speaker 2: They race you, and it's not sitting around being like
Speaker 2: what's us so well? They actually have a social strategy.
Speaker 2: It's very phonny, and they love to post like LGBTQ
Speaker 2: awareness is really fucking crazy.
Speaker 1: But I love when they're like, we're the greatest company
Speaker 1: for gay people out there. We're rated number one and.
Speaker 2: All right, but nevertheless, like you don't have RTX a
Speaker 2: CEO going around being like and here's what I think
Speaker 2: about social justice. They just they're like, we make calls,
Speaker 2: we make proms and the software behind bombs. If you
Speaker 2: need to kill someone, call RTX. We will blow them
Speaker 2: up big time. What's it going to cost? More than
Speaker 2: you think and more than we say.
Speaker 1: It's it's been really interesting Pallenteer, especially in the like
Speaker 1: in the last year sort of make this bigger presence
Speaker 1: of themselves with this manifesto and Alex Karp going on
Speaker 1: these like speaking tours, and I believe it was a
Speaker 1: New York Times page ad where it was a couple
Speaker 1: of weeks ago that was like volunteer supports Israel. They
Speaker 1: are purposey like putting themselves in the limelight and getting
Speaker 1: all of all of this attention and just wanting attention.
Speaker 1: It's it's interesting the attention economy.
Speaker 4: Yeah, it's interesting too because he's been the CEO, I think,
Speaker 4: for for eighteen years and nobody had ever heard of
Speaker 4: him until recently. He's actually been quietly I would say, uh,
Speaker 4: smartly just building relationships with various governments and alphabet agencies
Speaker 4: around the world and such, and.
Speaker 2: Kind of kept to himself.
Speaker 4: And I've often thought that his proximity and relationship to
Speaker 4: academia has been able to sort of ingratiate himself with
Speaker 4: these types of people that are in these positions, and
Speaker 4: that's how he's been so successful. I don't know what
Speaker 4: it is. I'm still kind of trying to to I
Speaker 4: can explain.
Speaker 2: He saw all the attention that Elon Muscott and the
Speaker 2: pay tail Scott by saying like yeah, yeah, christ right,
Speaker 2: or like uh what if we bound woman, like whatever
Speaker 2: that's saying, and he was like, yeah, cool, I want
Speaker 2: to do this, like I want to be popular too.
Speaker 2: And also now's the time because all these people want
Speaker 2: to be statesmen SBF Sam Bank missed the bankman free
Speaker 2: he was kind of early in the He wanted to
Speaker 2: be a statesman. He wanted to be seen as like
Speaker 2: an elder statesman, and you kind of see it with Elon,
Speaker 2: except I said this with no respect to government officials.
Speaker 2: He lacks the decorum, he lacks the grace, He doesn't
Speaker 2: function or talk like a politician, and he doesn't know
Speaker 2: how to do it. They don't know how to dress
Speaker 2: as well. This is such a really small thing. But
Speaker 2: go and find the picture from the dinner with Trump
Speaker 2: and look at Elon Musk's shoes and look at the break.
Speaker 2: Oh he wore a shirt backwards when he was doing
Speaker 2: his little ex jon. But it's just like, go and
Speaker 2: look at their shoes. Look, I'm not even being the
Speaker 2: menswear guy here. Look at the brake on their pants.
Speaker 2: It's really uneven. This is something that you can solve
Speaker 2: when you have a billion dollars. You go to Savile
Speaker 2: Row in London and you go, here is my credit card.
Speaker 2: Don't worry about whatever you put on it. Just give
Speaker 2: me the perfect looking suit and they'll fucking do it.
Speaker 2: You will find Yew anyone. You can find him in
Speaker 2: New York and find him any city everywhere. You have
Speaker 2: enough money, you could probably just have him fly like
Speaker 2: they could do one in a day. They could buy
Speaker 2: the factory. He could do it. But they just don't
Speaker 2: really give a fuck. What they want to do is
Speaker 2: skip all the hard part of you know, learning and
Speaker 2: being a person and growing so they can just be famous.
Speaker 2: And they've realized that that works. You can just go
Speaker 2: out and blah blah blah, racism blah, packs Americana manifest destiny.
Speaker 2: I've learned these terms yesterday from Wikipedia and I forgot
Speaker 2: what they mean. Ah, and it's they will do that
Speaker 2: as enough time. So the problem is, the reason they
Speaker 2: seem so frantic and tired is because there's nothing behind it.
Speaker 2: They will give a shit about this. We're even on
Speaker 2: this fucking list. Oh, here we go, Here we go,
Speaker 2: Er point seventeen. Silicon Valley must play a role in
Speaker 2: addressing violent crime. Many politicians across the United States have
Speaker 2: essentially shrugged when it comes to violent crime, banning any
Speaker 2: serious efforts to address the problem or take on any
Speaker 2: risk with the constituencies or donors in coming up with
Speaker 2: solutions and experiments in what should be a desperate bid
Speaker 2: to save lives. Yes, yeah, and also also this is
Speaker 2: a person that does not believe that social services are
Speaker 2: part of that. Well, the violent crime in San Francisco
Speaker 2: comes from Ronald Reagan emptying the fucking homeless people. People
Speaker 2: that became homeless, I should say, from mental asylunce they
Speaker 2: closed wats deadly class great shot.
Speaker 1: Have you have you ever watched the Southland Tails either, Oh, yes,
Speaker 1: of course. Do you remember, like throughout the movie there's
Speaker 1: just will be points where's some like just different things
Speaker 1: will pop off and there's it'll it'll cut to military
Speaker 1: people on roofs with the machine guns and they'll just
Speaker 1: like shoot people from the roofs. Yes, that's like what
Speaker 1: he wants. He wants the machine guns on the roof
Speaker 1: with just like soldiers always watching. That's like him, That's
Speaker 1: that's that's what this point is is Sadlin Tails.
Speaker 2: That movie. Sarah Michelle Gallers in it as a porn star,
Speaker 2: and the one thing I remember is she has is
Speaker 2: in a movie called cock Chuggers to cock Chuggin. To
Speaker 2: be clear, Sara Michelle Gather amazing actress, but just like
Speaker 2: fucking hilarious. Everyone should watch Southland Tails. By the way,
Speaker 2: it is an insane movie.
Speaker 1: Panned at the time, but I think, especially these days,
Speaker 1: it is very impressient. I think very You'll be like, goddamn,
Speaker 1: people didn't like this back in the day. It's a
Speaker 1: very careful.
Speaker 2: Oh no, I can forget why people didn't like it.
Speaker 2: It is insane.
Speaker 1: It is it is insane.
Speaker 2: Scene between scene and you're like, what is happening anyway,
Speaker 2: if only his worldview was that coherum, because what he
Speaker 2: believed is that he wants to put the homeless people
Speaker 2: in the embrace of God. He wants to shoot them,
Speaker 2: he wants to jail them, which I'm sure will solve
Speaker 2: the prison population issue we have. How he feels about prisons,
Speaker 2: by the way, I don't know. He probably loves them,
Speaker 2: I'm guessing, because the solution is always more software, more jail,
Speaker 2: or more gun. It's never like more home. Because that's
Speaker 2: a really good way of dealing with homeless people. You
Speaker 2: give them a path out of transience because they have
Speaker 2: mental health issues of course, by the fact, they don't
Speaker 2: have a place to sleep or a place to go
Speaker 2: to the bathroom other than their trousers. And these people
Speaker 2: are suffering and they're hurting, and the way that people
Speaker 2: deal with them is to hurt them more versus and
Speaker 2: oh it costs a lot of money, Yeah, it does
Speaker 2: to pull someone out of hell. And if you're someone
Speaker 2: listening to this, by the way, who has a view
Speaker 2: of homeless paper where it's like, well they need to
Speaker 2: be moved away, you're a fucking ass on, a loser
Speaker 2: and a coward. Homeless people are victims of society. They
Speaker 2: are society owes them a debt, not the other way around.
Speaker 2: And the idea that someone needs to work enough for
Speaker 2: social services is a joke. Anyway, that's my little sound
Speaker 2: box there really pisses.
Speaker 1: Oh sorry.
Speaker 4: Yeah, it's hard to say what he believes in since
Speaker 4: his sort of schism, but I do think it's worth
Speaker 4: noting that he has talked about social services and these
Speaker 4: programs pretty extensively in the past. He just thinks that
Speaker 4: volunteers specifically will make them better for whatever.
Speaker 1: That's of course they will.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I think that he does believe because again he
Speaker 4: has over the years described himself as various times, you know,
Speaker 4: a social something Democrat, liberal, this Neil Marxist. Whatever, he
Speaker 4: does believe in these things. I just think that he's
Speaker 4: sort of this eccentric, glamaniacal freak. This, I alone can
Speaker 4: improve these problems, like forest.
Speaker 2: Spoken of the Ninth Gate, I alone am worthy.
Speaker 1: But let's be a point. We'll fix this all right.
Speaker 2: Well, let's got a point eighteen, which is a real banger. Eighteen.
Speaker 2: The ruthless exposure of the private lives the public figures
Speaker 2: drives far too much talent away from government service, the
Speaker 2: public arena, and the shallow and petty assaults against those
Speaker 2: who dared to do something other than enrich themselves has
Speaker 2: become so unforgiving that the republic is left with a
Speaker 2: significant roster of ineffectual empty vessels whose ambition one would
Speaker 2: forgive if there were any genuine belief structure looking within.
Speaker 2: And that is exactly how that's written. He just got
Speaker 2: let that.
Speaker 1: Typo go right through.
Speaker 2: If there were any genuine belief structure. Look, I don't know.
Speaker 2: I this is about a mate of his, but this
Speaker 2: is like, don't look at the files. Yeah, this is
Speaker 2: the way to say to not do that. Yeah, don't
Speaker 2: look at the Epstein files. Don't look look whether Reid Hoffman,
Speaker 2: CEO of LinkedIn, endorsed Jeffrey Epstein, which he did. We
Speaker 2: don't know what for. I've asked. I've got a comment back.
Speaker 2: But anyway, let's move on.
Speaker 1: When I say, really quick, really quick, just that like
Speaker 1: it's so funny to say this, but also be like
Speaker 1: vir in the anti Zora and ma'm donnie. He's like Zara,
Speaker 1: Ma'm donnie. None of this, none of the things he
Speaker 1: want will ever work. He's bad he's evil, he's bad.
Speaker 1: So it's like he already like within just like one
Speaker 1: second of looking at some of his new opinions, even
Speaker 1: like a couple of days later, or like a couple
Speaker 1: of months after this or before this. Sorry, just think
Speaker 1: is hpnoprite? Yeah, kidding much much. It's just it's just
Speaker 1: it just drives me crazy. How all of this none
Speaker 1: none of these people, Like I think he does believe
Speaker 1: this stuff. But he's just so he is not self
Speaker 1: aware in any capacity to where it's like he he
Speaker 1: he says things that can directly contradict some of this manifesto.
Speaker 2: Well nineteen the caution in public life that we unwittingly
Speaker 2: encourage his corrosive. Those who say nothing wrong often say
Speaker 2: nothing much at all. So that's just about racism. That's
Speaker 2: just about saying the arsler. That's like, it's really like this.
Speaker 2: He's going to frame this as, oh, it's a philosophical debate,
Speaker 2: but it's like, no, it's it's not. It's actually it's
Speaker 2: actually just someone said the Arsler, and he wants to
Speaker 2: protect them. But we've got to keep We've let this
Speaker 2: one go a little long, so we're going to move
Speaker 2: on a little faster because number twenty is a real banger.
Speaker 2: The vasive intolerance of religious belief in certain circles must
Speaker 2: be resisted. The elites tolerant intolerance of religious belief is
Speaker 2: perhaps one of the most telling scigns that is a
Speaker 2: political project, that it's political project constitutes a less open
Speaker 2: intellectual movement than many within it would claim. I would
Speaker 2: say that there are definitely ways in which religion is
Speaker 2: pushed out. I don't think those are the ones he's
Speaker 2: talking about, though.
Speaker 1: I've found it so fascinating in the last two issues
Speaker 1: how a lot of these Silicon Valley tech people have
Speaker 1: really whether they are actually really said or not, have
Speaker 1: like outwardly embraced religion as this new thing that everyone
Speaker 1: needs to like. You're you're like a deeper person for
Speaker 1: for re embracing religion, you know, like Peter Tiel, all
Speaker 1: of these people I like. I I think it's one
Speaker 1: of the most fascinating new narratives to come out of
Speaker 1: Silicon Value is how they're all Christian, all of a sudden,
Speaker 1: and all really love God and all really think that
Speaker 1: that's more valuable than like anything else. While they talk
Speaker 1: about how we need more bombs to kill people.
Speaker 4: They've seen the value of appealing to people who already
Speaker 4: have like precluding to dogma baked in right.
Speaker 1: Absolutely, it's it's super beneficial for them. You if, like
Speaker 1: I mean Russell Brand, you sexual assault you. You pick
Speaker 1: up a Bible everyone, you get a lot. By the way,
Speaker 1: just flipping through the Bible.
Speaker 2: Taste one, I think is like gym facing. Like it's
Speaker 2: just and I watched the things and all I could
Speaker 2: think of was, no American would have the balls to
Speaker 2: do this. No American journalist. I don't love Pierce Morgan,
Speaker 2: but like, no American journalists would ever have the balls
Speaker 2: to just sit there in complete silence for two minutes
Speaker 2: as Russell Brand when it is it Isaiah? Is it Isaiah?
Speaker 2: Is this the one with the wall in it? Is
Speaker 2: this the one with the angels that have sex with
Speaker 2: each other? I haven't really I use groc to read
Speaker 2: this to me, and it's just it's like, no, anyone
Speaker 2: who suddenly becomes religious is extremely suspicious, never trust anyone.
Speaker 2: In fact, I know some very spiritual, deeply religious people,
Speaker 2: people with great faith, and the way they talk about
Speaker 2: it is just completely different to anyone else who talks
Speaker 2: about It's never it's it's something for them, not for you.
Speaker 2: And the moment it becomes something outward is when I
Speaker 2: get very fucking suspicious. Absolutely all right, you guys know this,
Speaker 2: You know guys bull When I go to church every Sunday, Right,
Speaker 2: that's cool, do you really?
Speaker 1: Yeah? What kind of journey now that shit?
Speaker 4: I have been going to a universalist Unitarian church, so
Speaker 4: it's like think church, but.
Speaker 2: It's nothing fake about It's what your faith is.
Speaker 3: No.
Speaker 2: I am like a gnostic and I have some spiritual
Speaker 2: I think my writing is quite spiritual the process, but
Speaker 2: it's like nothing with a god or anything. I think
Speaker 2: people are dismissive of religion in some ways. But this
Speaker 2: is referring to school protests. This is this is this
Speaker 2: is this is just college campus protest. This is what
Speaker 2: he's talking about. All right, We've only got two more
Speaker 2: of these fucking things, all right? Twenty one. Some cultures
Speaker 2: have produced vital advances, others remain dysfunctional and regressive. All
Speaker 2: cultures are now equal, criticism and value judgments are forbidden. Yes,
Speaker 2: this new dogma glosses over the fact that certain cultures
Speaker 2: and indeed subcultures, have produced wonders. Others have proven middling
Speaker 2: and worse, regressive and harmful. My what are you fucking talk?
Speaker 2: I assume he means Islam, like.
Speaker 5: I just I assume he's like it's just like, yeah,
Speaker 5: it's like just those brown countries you go a little south,
Speaker 5: the darker than brown, the black countries that there is
Speaker 5: there really any wonders there?
Speaker 1: There's no wonders there.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 4: My challenge to anybody listening to this is, if anybody
Speaker 4: ever says this to you, and I've seen this framing
Speaker 4: come up quite a bit more and more increasingly, if
Speaker 4: somebody says this to you, ask them what they mean, yeah,
Speaker 4: and smile, smile on their faces.
Speaker 2: What do you mean by that? And make them fucking
Speaker 2: say it?
Speaker 1: Yeah. I mean it's so obviously like rooted in that,
Speaker 1: like oh the West, Western values. It's like, yeah, all right.
Speaker 2: Final one twenty two. We must resist the shallow temptation
Speaker 2: of a vacant and horror pluralism. We in America and
Speaker 2: more broadly in the West, have for the past century
Speaker 2: resisted defining national cultures in the name of inclusivity, but
Speaker 2: inclusion into war. We need more racism.
Speaker 1: Racism, We need transphobia, We need a phobia we need
Speaker 1: more bigotry.
Speaker 2: That's the only way will be multicultural.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, no, this yet again is sort of like
Speaker 1: cancel cultural bullshit. This, this is like suicidal empathy because like, oh,
Speaker 1: what like if we're tolerant of everyone, like what like,
Speaker 1: we lose so much the society. That'll lead to societalerantstruction.
Speaker 2: What if someone's intolerant of me being intolerant fucking assholes? Well,
Speaker 2: I will say, and this ends by saying, it's an
Speaker 2: excerpt from the book, so couldn't probably should have known
Speaker 2: that before going into it myself. I will say that
Speaker 2: if I was made to read this book, I would
Speaker 2: I would try and poison myself. I don't I don't
Speaker 2: want to know what these people think. But I think
Speaker 2: that this kind of this kind of proves that this
Speaker 2: is a series of incongruent points written by somebody that
Speaker 2: can't choose whether they want to be a convenient or
Speaker 2: inconvenient fascist, Like they don't want like they aren't really
Speaker 2: sure what they believe in other than the fact that
Speaker 2: someone they like is being oppressed, but the people they
Speaker 2: don't like all being impressed enough, oppressed enough.
Speaker 1: It's also like, give us more contracts, give us more money.
Speaker 1: We want a full wartime economy focused on giving AI
Speaker 1: companies more money. It's like both of those things. It's
Speaker 1: sort of this like techno fascist, sort of like give
Speaker 1: us money please. Also, we agree with you on culture war,
Speaker 1: so please give us more money for that.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Well, now that we've gone through that horrible series
Speaker 2: of points, I want to thank you both for joining.
Speaker 2: Where can we find you?
Speaker 1: You can find us at We do a show called
Speaker 1: Kill the Computer. You can find us at Killthecomputer dot com.
Speaker 1: Or just an amazing website. Yeah, b are our community.
Speaker 1: If the person that sort of like helps with our
Speaker 1: community also made the website, she's amazing she built. I
Speaker 1: think I'm biased. It's a website for our show, but
Speaker 1: I think it's one of the most like if you
Speaker 1: love like what the Internet used to be, what it
Speaker 1: could be. Obviously it's a website for a podcast, but
Speaker 1: I think it just has the spirit of what the
Speaker 1: Internet still could games on it. There's a leader board
Speaker 1: like it's fucking dope. Please. Yeah. It's a show about just,
Speaker 1: uh like how internet and culture and politics sort of
Speaker 1: intertwine and and sort of manifest in the world that
Speaker 1: we live in. Essentially, so we talk about a lot
Speaker 1: of stuff like we talked about today. We talk about
Speaker 1: one of my favorite episodes that we did so a
Speaker 1: little a little bit ago was talking about the like
Speaker 1: death capitalist economy of like uh uh brief tech, Yeah,
Speaker 1: where it's it's like the these tech companies, how they
Speaker 1: sort of prey on people grieving family members dying or
Speaker 1: or like getting to end of life and providing these
Speaker 1: different services that will sort of create fake memories.
Speaker 4: In some cases, the chat bought out of your dead
Speaker 4: grandmother and they're going to update the model and she'll
Speaker 4: start hallucinating and you can't afford it and blah blah blah.
Speaker 1: It's yeah, it's very yeah. No, we we talk about
Speaker 1: all sorts of stuff like that. So please check us out.
Speaker 2: Thanks for listening everyone. There'll be a monologue on Friday.
Speaker 2: You'll love it. I promise. I haven't decided what it
Speaker 2: is yet. Thank you for listening to Better Offline. I'm
Speaker 2: goddamn ed zetron. Thank you for listening to Better Offline.
Speaker 6: The editor and composer of the Better Offline theme song
Speaker 6: is Matasowski. You can check out more of his music
Speaker 6: and audio projects at matasowski dot com. M A T
Speaker 6: T O S O w Ski dot com. You can
Speaker 6: email me at easy at better offline dot com or
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Speaker 2: Thank you so much for listening. Better Offline is a
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