Speaker 1: Welcome to you stuff you should know from house stuff
Speaker 1: Works dot com. Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm
Speaker 1: Josh Clark, There's Charles W. Chuck Bryant. You're under arrest.
Speaker 1: I didn't do anything. Yeah, I saw it with my
Speaker 1: own two eyes. You're coming with me. You didn't see
Speaker 1: jack ant scene? Is that anthene or anthyne? How many
Speaker 1: times you get to say that? Yeah? So that was
Speaker 1: my rendition of how the citizens arrests could go. We've
Speaker 1: been asked to do this for a while. Yeah, we
Speaker 1: finally did. Yeah, we're doing it now. Did you know
Speaker 1: that on June nine a man in Australia died while
Speaker 1: being citizens arrested? Uh? No, he was being detained by
Speaker 1: like five or six guys and held down for eight
Speaker 1: minutes and zip tied and he died. You know, I
Speaker 1: feel like we talked about once when um, some people
Speaker 1: said don a guy to detain him, that we did
Speaker 1: in London or something and he died. It happens, it
Speaker 1: does have. I totally remember that. Yeah. It was guy's
Speaker 1: busted in on a diamond shop. One got away, one
Speaker 1: got sat on until he died. Yes, that was scary,
Speaker 1: even though people were going to get off of me.
Speaker 1: He's dying so um that that reveals one of the many, many,
Speaker 1: many things that can go wrong during a citizen's arrest,
Speaker 1: which is why we wanted to say at the top
Speaker 1: of this and probably well many times, you should not
Speaker 1: perform citizens arrest, even though it is conceivably your right
Speaker 1: if you're here in America to do so, um and
Speaker 1: all over the world you not necessarily mean almost every
Speaker 1: single country has a citizen's arrest law, even ones that
Speaker 1: are not touched by the long arm of the British Empire,
Speaker 1: all over the place. I got the impression that was
Speaker 1: basically an English common law concept. Maybe it's been co
Speaker 1: opted then because I saw like Turkey, Hong Kong, all
Speaker 1: over the world. Okay, wherever you are, you probably should
Speaker 1: not try to performance since the arrest. There's all sorts
Speaker 1: of other stuff you can do, especially in the day
Speaker 1: of like a smartphone call the cops, take video, take video,
Speaker 1: take pictures. Um. The one the one time when a
Speaker 1: lot of citizens arrest laws do say you probably should
Speaker 1: do something is when you see somebody being hurt, injured,
Speaker 1: or their their life is in danger. For the most part, though,
Speaker 1: especially if no one is being hurt. You should not
Speaker 1: perform as citizens arrest. That's your advice to the general public. Yes,
Speaker 1: do you not agree? I don't know. It depends. I
Speaker 1: think it's situational, Okay, depends on who they are, who
Speaker 1: you are, and what's going down. Well, the problem is
Speaker 1: a lot of people say citizens arrest, you do that
Speaker 1: for like if somebody if it won't turn down their
Speaker 1: their stereo at night, stuff like that easily turns into
Speaker 1: like a fight. Yeah, that's not his address. That you
Speaker 1: should just have a little dummy, fine book and if
Speaker 1: it makes you feel better to write somebody a citation,
Speaker 1: do it. And as a result, a lot of states,
Speaker 1: I think recognize the fact that if you just say yeah,
Speaker 1: you can do citizens the rest for anything, it will
Speaker 1: start out as somebody was trying to arrestue for playing
Speaker 1: your stereo too loud, too late, and then turn into
Speaker 1: a fight and then somebody dies that kind of thing.
Speaker 1: So a lot of case, a lot of states say
Speaker 1: you it has to be a felony. And there's all
Speaker 1: sorts of other stipulations in details, But the whole thing,
Speaker 1: like I said, Chuck, is rooted at least in the
Speaker 1: United States and English common law, specifically the posse komitatas. Yeah,
Speaker 1: dating back to medieval England. That was a time when, uh,
Speaker 1: they needed that and the sheriff of the land counted
Speaker 1: on citizens because they didn't have a police force of
Speaker 1: hundreds of dudes, uh, and they needed citizens to help
Speaker 1: them out. Basically, yeah, and possecomitatis is Latin for force
Speaker 1: of the county or force of the community. And it
Speaker 1: basically in English common law was the ability of the
Speaker 1: sheriff to say, you, fifteen year old boy, and up,
Speaker 1: you're able bodied. I need help arresting this guy. You
Speaker 1: were obligated to help me to sit on him, to
Speaker 1: sit on him, but get off and when I tell
Speaker 1: you to. Yeah. And in the United States it was
Speaker 1: I think, in which is not that long ago. I
Speaker 1: mean just the turn of the nineteen hundreds, Philadelphia, big city,
Speaker 1: only had fifteen detectives, so they counted on people to
Speaker 1: help out. Um In the infamous mass murderer H. H.
Speaker 1: Holmes was tracked and caught by a private citizen. Oh
Speaker 1: was that right? Yeah, he was a private detective. But
Speaker 1: it's not a cop, okay, because I was trying to
Speaker 1: find like famous, have there ever been any like noteworthy
Speaker 1: citizens arrest. That's pretty noteworthy. That was the only one
Speaker 1: I could find, h Holmes. But it's because first serial
Speaker 1: killer was brought down by citizens arrest. It was tough
Speaker 1: to Uh, it's it's tough to get good information on
Speaker 1: this though, because, as you'll see, the every state has
Speaker 1: their own law, and within states, each municipality has different
Speaker 1: versions of the law, right, so it's all over the place.
Speaker 1: The rule of film that I ran across in researching
Speaker 1: this is if the site or the text from a
Speaker 1: site seemed huffy and indignant and just fed up, then
Speaker 1: you should really take that stuff with a grain AsSalt. Yeah.
Speaker 1: And I also found a lot of cases to these
Speaker 1: days where it's become kind of a tool for activism,
Speaker 1: where somebody like an environmentalist will try to arrest the
Speaker 1: mayor in front of everyone at a town meeting. There's
Speaker 1: a site called arrest Blair dot org, I believe, and
Speaker 1: the it's a site dedicated to placing Tony Blair, the
Speaker 1: Prime Minister, under arrest for war crimes, and like five
Speaker 1: or six people have done it so far, and it's
Speaker 1: all just totally symbolic. Yeah, exactly. But and there's a
Speaker 1: lot of like steps that they suggest you follow and like,
Speaker 1: don't make it seem like you're trying to carry out
Speaker 1: any violent act or anything like that. It's all symbolic. Yeah,
Speaker 1: but if you could get Tony Blair to come with
Speaker 1: you to to I don't know, um jail. Sure, they're like,
Speaker 1: go for it, but he's not going to know. I've
Speaker 1: also seen people try to arrest like oil company executives
Speaker 1: and stuff like that. Again just a statement. Uh, so
Speaker 1: let's talk about let's break it down into a federal
Speaker 1: law and state law. Um, federal law and you this
Speaker 1: is a blog post of yours, right, and this where
Speaker 1: this came from. How about that? How about it? It's
Speaker 1: our first one based on a blog post which is
Speaker 1: sort of just a version of an article no we did.
Speaker 1: Um oh yeah, that's right. Good point. So if you're
Speaker 1: talking federal law, um, it has to be interpreted as such.
Speaker 1: It's not. It doesn't clearly say in federal law like
Speaker 1: you can do this. No, there's some real fancy footwork
Speaker 1: in interpreting this. And there's a group called um oh
Speaker 1: what are they called time fighters? Yeah? I looked when
Speaker 1: I wrote this blog post originally, Um, there's no website
Speaker 1: for crime fighters. They have a newsletter should say a lot,
Speaker 1: but there's this long document and you can find it
Speaker 1: on the post for this episode on our website that
Speaker 1: has like I mean, just every detail you could possibly
Speaker 1: think of. Some of it good advice, some of it
Speaker 1: contradictory advice, some advice not good, like for example, um,
Speaker 1: there's uh sentences like when in doubt, check first, Like
Speaker 1: if if you're not sure if a crime that you're
Speaker 1: arresting somebody for is a misdemeanor or felony, check first.
Speaker 1: So apparently when in doubt you should have already checked
Speaker 1: beforehand is their guy or zip ties make handy handcuffs.
Speaker 1: You should not be using handcuffs. Cops even use zip
Speaker 1: ties cops do. Here's a there's a this is a
Speaker 1: theme we're gonna keep running into chuck cops who are
Speaker 1: sworn law enforcement officers. That's their career. And there's plenty
Speaker 1: of cops that are like bad apples that I'm not
Speaker 1: talking about that at this point. What I'm saying is
Speaker 1: is if you're a citizens arrest person and you're carrying
Speaker 1: around zip ties to use his handcuffs, you are going
Speaker 1: to get in trouble because the same the same protections
Speaker 1: that are afforded to cops who use zip ties are
Speaker 1: not afforded to you necessarily. No, it's a different deal.
Speaker 1: So if you look at a Title eight teen, Section
Speaker 1: two two three six UM, when talking federal law, we
Speaker 1: should probably just read this because the wording is important. Whoever,
Speaker 1: being an officer, agent, or employee of the the United States
Speaker 1: or any department of agency thereof, engaged in the enforcement
Speaker 1: of any law of the United States, searches any private
Speaker 1: dwelling used and occupied as such dwelling without a warrant
Speaker 1: directing such search, or maliciously and without reasonable cause searches
Speaker 1: any other building or property without a search warrant. Shall
Speaker 1: be fined under this Title for a first offense, and
Speaker 1: for a subsequent offense, shall be fined under this title,
Speaker 1: and in prison not more than one year or both. Right. So, basically,
Speaker 1: what's that that's saying is the the federal government is
Speaker 1: aware that there's bad apples who are sworn officers of
Speaker 1: the law UM, and they anybody who conducts a search
Speaker 1: without a warrant or without probable cause is in trouble. Yes,
Speaker 1: here's the thing. They're like there's a couple of exceptions,
Speaker 1: and we want to make plain right. And they say
Speaker 1: that this section shall not apply to any person, which
Speaker 1: as huge as we'll see in a second, A serving
Speaker 1: a warrant of arrest be arresting or attempting to arrest
Speaker 1: a person committing or attempting to commit an offense in
Speaker 1: his presence, or who is committed or is suspected on
Speaker 1: reasonable grounds of having committed a felony, or making a
Speaker 1: search at the request or invitation or with the consent
Speaker 1: of the occupant of the premises. So they're saying, if
Speaker 1: you're a law enforcement officer, you don't have to have
Speaker 1: a warrant if one of those three A, B or
Speaker 1: C is fulfilled. But the thing that crime stoppers UM,
Speaker 1: crime fighters, The thing that crime fighters UH says is well, wait,
Speaker 1: they switch language. The first part has to do with
Speaker 1: the law enforcement officer. In the second part they use
Speaker 1: the word person. Yeah, any person and any person as
Speaker 1: a citizen. Right, that's right. So technically, UM, under federal law,
Speaker 1: if you interpret it this way, you have the right
Speaker 1: to UM take to commit I guess, commit to carry
Speaker 1: out a citizens or ask if you if there is
Speaker 1: a felony, right, so yeah, or if you could get
Speaker 1: your hand on a warrant, which you can't unless you're
Speaker 1: like a bounty hunter or a private detective, which, by
Speaker 1: the way, bounty hunters, UM February Okay, if you want
Speaker 1: to go listen to that one. Yep, it's a good one. Yeah,
Speaker 1: we did that one in bail. Right, Bail and bounty
Speaker 1: hunters is like a duel, that's right. Uh. And then
Speaker 1: since most people, most citizens can't get their hands on
Speaker 1: a warrant, that part b kicks in where if you
Speaker 1: see somebody committing a felony, um, you're you can arrest them,
Speaker 1: that's right. So that's what crime fighters and a lot
Speaker 1: of other people say. This is federal justification for citizens arrest.
Speaker 1: That's right. But the states, the states love citizens arrest, yes,
Speaker 1: and we'll talk about those states laws right after this. So, Josh,
Speaker 1: you mentioned that states love citizens arrest, love them. Not
Speaker 1: exactly the case, but they definitely opened ings up quite
Speaker 1: a bit. Uh. Depending on what state and what municipality
Speaker 1: you live in. UM, you may be able to perform
Speaker 1: citizens arrests on misdemeanors that you actually witness, felonies you
Speaker 1: don't even witness, um, anything that could cause a breach
Speaker 1: of peace, whether you witness it or not. And this
Speaker 1: all depends on the state and or in the case
Speaker 1: of Kentucky, you are called upon to do so. So
Speaker 1: there's they say you must do so. Right, there's a
Speaker 1: case in the thirties that has been interpreted in Kentucky
Speaker 1: to mean that you if you see a crime in action,
Speaker 1: like you have to do something. Yeah, the quote is
Speaker 1: you must take affirmative steps, is what it says in
Speaker 1: the law. I don't think you know, obviously they're not
Speaker 1: going to charge someone with not doing something, although you
Speaker 1: never know, but they do charge you in Kentucky with like, hey,
Speaker 1: this is your obligation and going to do something. I mean,
Speaker 1: you've seen the last episode of Seinfeld. It's basically the
Speaker 1: same thing. They saw a man being harassed on the
Speaker 1: street and laughed instead of helping him, and so they
Speaker 1: were prosecuted under the Good Samaritan law. That's right. So
Speaker 1: instead of see something, say something, it's see something, sit
Speaker 1: on them. It's exactly right, that's the law. So, um,
Speaker 1: that's Kentucky. There are other states that say you have
Speaker 1: to see a felony in progress to make a citizen's arrest, right, um.
Speaker 1: And then other states are saying you better know what
Speaker 1: you're talking about. A few arrest isism because if a
Speaker 1: conviction doesn't happen, that guy can turn around and sue you.
Speaker 1: You can be charged with all sorts of things. Um,
Speaker 1: so you better you better get that conviction, Like, you
Speaker 1: better know what you're talking about. It better be a
Speaker 1: cut and dried case if you're gonna make a citizen's arrest. Yeah.
Speaker 1: And then there are all manner of um rules and
Speaker 1: regulations depending on your state, like um. For instance, in Utah,
Speaker 1: they will let you arrest somebody for a misdemeanor or felony,
Speaker 1: but you're not allowed to use deadly force. Other states
Speaker 1: say you can use what they call reasonable force, but
Speaker 1: they you know, that's highly subjective and I guess would
Speaker 1: be determined in a court. Uh. Some states say you
Speaker 1: should not are not allowed to question or search your
Speaker 1: The only thing you can do is detain them. And
Speaker 1: this is in different countries too. They have similar laws
Speaker 1: I looked at, like Canada and England and Finland and Norway.
Speaker 1: I mean, it's all over the place and they're all
Speaker 1: kind of similar. Um. Although in some states they will
Speaker 1: let you see as a weapon or evidence if it
Speaker 1: is in plain view, or if you're under an immediate threat,
Speaker 1: like you can take a gun from a guy um
Speaker 1: or sees if you know the key low cocaine spills
Speaker 1: out onto the street, you can like brush that aside
Speaker 1: and say, dear, would you put that in the car
Speaker 1: until the cops get here. That'd be funny if you
Speaker 1: don't realize that you're in a state where you're not
Speaker 1: allowed to take a gun. So you take a guy's
Speaker 1: gun and he's like, he's citizens arrest you back for
Speaker 1: taking his gun, and he just keeps going back and
Speaker 1: forth like that exactly. Uh. And then there's something also
Speaker 1: called some states allow merchant searchers searches, Oh, like a
Speaker 1: security guard at a department store or something. Yeah, or
Speaker 1: even just a shop owner, like I saw you put
Speaker 1: that thing in your pocket, Um, then go digging through
Speaker 1: the pockets. Um. So yeah, if you're a shopkeeper, you
Speaker 1: have certain rights as well. So if you are um
Speaker 1: one of those people who likes to do citizens arrestaurants
Speaker 1: interested by that kind of thing, um, which means he
Speaker 1: couldn't make it as a cop crime crime fighters, um,
Speaker 1: do you remember that one King of the Hill where uh,
Speaker 1: the security guard like I think he drops Bobby off
Speaker 1: or something like that, and um, the security guard tells
Speaker 1: Hanky issues of them a warning that he's parked more
Speaker 1: than three feet away from the curb, and Hank goes,
Speaker 1: you're not a cop, and the guy goes, that's why
Speaker 1: it's only a warning. Pretty great stuff. I heard a
Speaker 1: interview a great interview with Mike Judge recently. Um, he's awesome,
Speaker 1: he is and super super smart Idiocracy like he was
Speaker 1: a physicist and engineer before before he got into the
Speaker 1: animation game before he did be this and butt head wow,
Speaker 1: which is really kind of funny. Nice. Yeah, I didn't
Speaker 1: know that. Yeah, he's not a big fan of Idiocracy himself. Actually, man,
Speaker 1: what is wrong with him? He basically was like, you know,
Speaker 1: he's his I think general take was it was okay,
Speaker 1: but it was sort of a which was kind of
Speaker 1: my problem with like a one joke thing that ultimately
Speaker 1: didn't play out over and over again. I loved it
Speaker 1: all right, Um, he'll appreciate here in that I think
Speaker 1: loved it. Mike Judge, So, uh, if you are going
Speaker 1: to do this kind of stuff, you better know your
Speaker 1: state laws in and out. Yeah. First of all, you
Speaker 1: better know whether it has to be a felony for
Speaker 1: you to to carry out a citizen's arrest, in which
Speaker 1: case you better know the different between a misdemeter and
Speaker 1: a felony, and different classes of felonies, so you know
Speaker 1: when to intervene and when not to. You also need
Speaker 1: to know whether you can use handcuffs or try to
Speaker 1: restrain somebody right, what force you can use right at?
Speaker 1: What escalation of force means, which typically um is, if
Speaker 1: the guy is coming at you with a baseball bat,
Speaker 1: you could conceivably come at him back with your own
Speaker 1: blunt object. But if the guy's got a he brought
Speaker 1: a baseball bat to a make fight, right yeah, which
Speaker 1: I mean, that's they're both blunt objects, right. I would
Speaker 1: take a spiked ball over a baseball bat. But if
Speaker 1: that guy comes at you with like just as fists
Speaker 1: and you knife them a bunch of times, you've escalated
Speaker 1: the violence and you're probably going to be in trouble
Speaker 1: across the board though, no matter what state you're in,
Speaker 1: if it allows for citizens arrest, which I didn't see
Speaker 1: a state that didn't have some sort of provision are there.
Speaker 1: Did you run across any I think pretty much everywhere
Speaker 1: you can eat. I mean, if you can arrest someone
Speaker 1: in Massachusetts, right, then you can arrest someone anywhere. Um,
Speaker 1: you do not have to read a suspect his or
Speaker 1: her rights. Yeah, that makes sense though that I think
Speaker 1: about it, because you're not an officer of the law, right,
Speaker 1: and the Miranda Rights specifically give the right to remain
Speaker 1: silent around officers of the law. Yeah, but if that
Speaker 1: person sings like a canary, I think you can go
Speaker 1: and testify later if you if you want. You are
Speaker 1: a witness. You're not an officer of the law, and
Speaker 1: therefore that person has no right to remain silent. I mean,
Speaker 1: they cannot talk to you. But the stuff that they
Speaker 1: that right against self incrimination, that that the Miranda Rights
Speaker 1: give them does not apply to somebody telling a citizen
Speaker 1: that kind of thing if the citizen wants to be
Speaker 1: a state witness, which you probably do if you're you know,
Speaker 1: you're probably like double waghmy citizens arrest and state witness
Speaker 1: and now I have to go into witness identity protection
Speaker 1: for the rest of my life. We we did an
Speaker 1: episode on that too. Yeah, this is all part of
Speaker 1: our crime and Punishment series, I guess. Um. The other
Speaker 1: thing that I saw almost across the board, I think
Speaker 1: is that if you commit, or if you keep saying commit,
Speaker 1: it sounds like a crime. If you take part in
Speaker 1: the citizen's arrest, you have to make your intention known
Speaker 1: and tell them what you're doing, all right. You can't
Speaker 1: just jump on someone and smash their face in the ground.
Speaker 1: You have to like advertise I am making a citizen's arrest. Now,
Speaker 1: according to crime fighters, there are some exceptions to that rule.
Speaker 1: If the person if this is the commission of the crime,
Speaker 1: like if that guy is like sitting there and has
Speaker 1: the shop owner and it's like robbing somebody, you can
Speaker 1: jump on them then without saying that. If they're fleeing
Speaker 1: the commission of the crime, supposedly you can jump on
Speaker 1: them without saying you're under arrest. And then apparently before
Speaker 1: um arrest was considered part and parcel to detainment. So
Speaker 1: again according to crime fighters, which again I suspect is
Speaker 1: dubious in a lot of cases, Um that before you
Speaker 1: had to at least lightly touched the person while telling
Speaker 1: them that they you were performing a citizen's arrest and
Speaker 1: then apparently it was later uninterpreted to not be the case.
Speaker 1: You could just inform somebody, so Josh, we mentioned, um,
Speaker 1: the one thing you have to do in almost all cases,
Speaker 1: unless it's unless you're literally breaking up, you know, a crime,
Speaker 1: that you have to tell them what you're doing. The
Speaker 1: other thing across the board is as quickly as possible
Speaker 1: you have to try and get the real police there.
Speaker 1: Very important, Chuck. You know, you can't just uh go
Speaker 1: like your eyes examined, or hold someone for questioning, Like,
Speaker 1: don't start playing cop because you're not one. You you
Speaker 1: need to immediately get a cop on the scene as
Speaker 1: fast as possible and they wreck come in Like, don't
Speaker 1: do that by putting them in your car and driving
Speaker 1: them down to the station. No, there's a couple of
Speaker 1: reasons for that. One is that your car is your
Speaker 1: own property, and you could conceivably be considered um to
Speaker 1: be imprisoning those people in your car, like you're kidnapping,
Speaker 1: whereas with like a taxi, that's a public vehicle and
Speaker 1: that kind of I would guess you could argue that
Speaker 1: that was a public vehicle that these people got into
Speaker 1: you with. And then secondly, the other reason why you
Speaker 1: want to use the taxis because if you're driving your
Speaker 1: own car, it's just the two of you and you're driving,
Speaker 1: whereas with the taxi you're being given around by somebody.
Speaker 1: But I wouldn't recommend a taxi either in today's cell
Speaker 1: phone land, just get a cop there or just call
Speaker 1: uber which is funny. There's a guy who uh in Sydney, Australia,
Speaker 1: I think where we're huge um. He has been calling
Speaker 1: uber cars, hiring uber cars and then citizens arresting the
Speaker 1: drivers because they're breaking the law by not being licensed
Speaker 1: taxi drivers. When you don like he's a lot of
Speaker 1: fun at heart. When you google citizens arrest and click
Speaker 1: on news, that was the first thing that comes up,
Speaker 1: it's like some Australian uber vigilanti. Wow. Alright, so your
Speaker 1: contention bad idea always here and there's just because there's
Speaker 1: too many X factors. I mean, when when pro cops
Speaker 1: are on the scene bystanders get shot. You know we're
Speaker 1: talking about people who are, for all intents and purposes,
Speaker 1: active vigilantes. I would guess that that would tace the
Speaker 1: not necessarily. I mean an active vigilanti as someone who
Speaker 1: prowlsed the streets praying, playing crime fighter. I would guess
Speaker 1: that most of the citizens arrests carried out in this
Speaker 1: country are by people like that. You think people who
Speaker 1: are the head of neighborhood patrols, people who are um, yes,
Speaker 1: prowling the streets. Well, there are a lot of George
Speaker 1: Zimmerman's out there for exactly. But I would be curious
Speaker 1: about statistics on people who are witnessing a crime and
Speaker 1: jump in and help. Okay, So um to me, it's
Speaker 1: it's just is uh, it's there's just too many X factors, um,
Speaker 1: And there's a lot of things that can go wrong. Right.
Speaker 1: So for example, UM, when you walk up to somebody
Speaker 1: and say I am performing as citzens of arrest, touch
Speaker 1: them lightly, right, or you don't have to do that anymore, um,
Speaker 1: because you I am charging you with snatching that purse.
Speaker 1: I just saw you do it. That person is probably
Speaker 1: going to be like, you're not a cop. Yeah, I
Speaker 1: doubt if they would say, well you got me, you
Speaker 1: got me. Here's where you got zip ties on you,
Speaker 1: because I've got some. If you don't write exactly, go ahead, Um,
Speaker 1: that is probably not gonna happen right now. If that
Speaker 1: doesn't happen, and you say, I want to warn you,
Speaker 1: you're not coming with me can lead to charges of
Speaker 1: resisting arrest, even though it's citizens arrested, which is true
Speaker 1: in a lot of cases. Um, that person say well,
Speaker 1: why don't you grab me and see what happens? And
Speaker 1: when you do that, because you're a literalist, you grab
Speaker 1: them to see what happens, and they stab you, which happens.
Speaker 1: It actually happened to four Guardian Angels. You know those guys, right,
Speaker 1: they're the professional citizens arrestors exactly. They really are. For
Speaker 1: as as close as you can come to being a
Speaker 1: pro that is the Guardian Angels. Yea. And if it
Speaker 1: can go south on them, it can go south on you. Yeah.
Speaker 1: I read this really interesting article about them. They were
Speaker 1: formed in nineteen seventy nine in New York. Right, Yeah,
Speaker 1: we should do with a show on them. That'd be great, Okay,
Speaker 1: But in the meantime everybody should go read the Twilight
Speaker 1: of the Guardian Angels and I think narratively on that site,
Speaker 1: but it was really interesting. Started out as a McDonald's
Speaker 1: manager who was sick of crime and his neighborhood and
Speaker 1: recruited some of his other employees, and remember that guy,
Speaker 1: Like I can still picture the main dude in my head.
Speaker 1: He's still around. Yeah, because it was when we were kids.
Speaker 1: It was a big deal, Guardian Angels. You heard about
Speaker 1: it a lot there on talk show circuits. Uh, it
Speaker 1: was a necessary thing in New York City. Yeah, they
Speaker 1: were on Sally, they were on Donahue. Yea, yeah, they're
Speaker 1: on all of them. Um, but as recently as two
Speaker 1: thousand twelve in Chicago, four of them got stabbed when
Speaker 1: they were trying to arrest a Personnatcher. Another guy came
Speaker 1: up and just started stabbing him. One of the Guardian
Speaker 1: Angels got stabbed in the head, another one in the ribs,
Speaker 1: and both suspects got away. So if the Guardian Angels
Speaker 1: as a group are getting stabbed, what do you think
Speaker 1: is gonna happen to you? Yeah, when you walk up
Speaker 1: and say I'm placing you under arrest, come with me. Yeah,
Speaker 1: that's a good point. Okay, So there's point one is
Speaker 1: a bad idea. Uh well point two was kind of
Speaker 1: included in there. This person you have no idea what
Speaker 1: kind of weapon they might have. You know, you might
Speaker 1: see the weapon and if it's like someone holding up
Speaker 1: a store or something like fast Times at Ridgemont High,
Speaker 1: which case you uh, distract them, throw coffee on them.
Speaker 1: Oh gnarly yeah, and then you get away, you know,
Speaker 1: scott free. I think you hire Van Halen to play
Speaker 1: your birthday party? Was it? Van um? But all getting
Speaker 1: aside very dangerous. Even if you don't see a weapon
Speaker 1: doesn't mean that you're scott free. And if you're one
Speaker 1: of those people who's like, I'm Dabney Coleman, I have
Speaker 1: like twenty four hours to live, so I don't care
Speaker 1: if I die, Well, what about bystanders, innocent bystanders on you?
Speaker 1: What if it's not a knight, But if it's a gun, sure, um.
Speaker 1: So there's a lot of a lot of moving parts
Speaker 1: that you have to take into account. And even crime
Speaker 1: fighter says, if if you are thinking of performing a
Speaker 1: citizen's arrest and there's a lot of people around, don't
Speaker 1: because you have no idea how south it can go.
Speaker 1: You don't know if the person has a gun, and
Speaker 1: if so, if they're willing to shoot at you or
Speaker 1: anybody else who gets in their way, it's yeah, I mean,
Speaker 1: and again, unless you're seeing somebody in trouble, like in
Speaker 1: real physical danger. Even crime fighters is like, you know,
Speaker 1: maybe drop back and write their license plate number down
Speaker 1: or just call the cops. This is even crime fighters
Speaker 1: saying this, I know. And they're like those real life
Speaker 1: superheroes that the streets at night with capes and masks.
Speaker 1: They're coming up in a minute. So um. Another great
Speaker 1: reason to not do so is a little something we
Speaker 1: touched on earlier, which is you open yourself up to
Speaker 1: all manner of lawsuits if you are mistaken, if things
Speaker 1: don't go well, if you end up injuring this person
Speaker 1: and they are innocent, falls, imprisonment charges, kidnapping, like you
Speaker 1: name it. Man, you can be in big, big trouble,
Speaker 1: pat down somebody the wrong way, sexual assault, um, even
Speaker 1: salt and battery. Um yeah, if you like, even verbal
Speaker 1: threats can lead to charges of assault and battery. That's right,
Speaker 1: civil suits. You could be not only arrested, but you
Speaker 1: could have the pants suit off of you exactly so
Speaker 1: that that would be reason enough for me, aside from
Speaker 1: the fact that I'm a pennywise pacifist. And then lastly, Chuck, yes,
Speaker 1: the the the whole thing opens you up to a
Speaker 1: possibility that is way more possible than the average time
Speaker 1: when you're just walking around the street mining your own business,
Speaker 1: of actually killing somebody. Yeah, George Zimmerman. Yes, and it's
Speaker 1: not just George Zimmerman. It happens like it happens with
Speaker 1: with citizens arrests. Where um, there's a guy in San
Speaker 1: Jose and two thirteen, Ricardo Hernandez. He was um trying
Speaker 1: to citizens arrest a burglar named or suspected burglar named
Speaker 1: Christopher Soriano. They got into a fight over a gun
Speaker 1: um that Hernandez had on him, and Soriano died. So
Speaker 1: now Hernandez is going to prison for four years and
Speaker 1: has a head on him, has a one on him. Ahead,
Speaker 1: he killed somebody. Oh, I've never heard that term. So
Speaker 1: that's a great point. Might end up killing someone. Do
Speaker 1: you really want to do that right? Exactly? You gotta
Speaker 1: think these things through. Yeah, there are very few people
Speaker 1: that I would in trust to perform a citizen's arrest
Speaker 1: in a in the right way. How about Phoenix Jones
Speaker 1: and his sidekicking wife Purple Rain Seattle real life superheroes.
Speaker 1: Oh well, that's always a bad idea. They dress up
Speaker 1: and patrol the streets. He has his own YouTube channel. Yeah,
Speaker 1: there's Dark Guardian in New York City who hangs around
Speaker 1: Washington Square Park at night where we did a live podcast. Yeah,
Speaker 1: there's a great documentary on the real life superheroes Razor
Speaker 1: Hawk in Minneapolis. Yeah, they're all over and they um,
Speaker 1: they can be a problem. Sometimes it's just for fun.
Speaker 1: But it's not like the movie kick Ass. It doesn't
Speaker 1: go down that way. Well. Yeah, and even cops are like,
Speaker 1: do not do this, Like that's not a good idea. Yeah,
Speaker 1: we don't need your help, that is what they're saying.
Speaker 1: So crazy. Yeah, I wonder what happens when you try
Speaker 1: to perform as citizens arrest on a cop um. I
Speaker 1: imagine that doesn't go well these days. I would guess
Speaker 1: that doesn't go well either. Yeah. I wouldn't advise that. No. Finally,
Speaker 1: we come to his type of citizens arrest that you
Speaker 1: advise not to do. No, no, no, no no, I don't
Speaker 1: advise anyone to do it. Like I said, they were
Speaker 1: very like my brother in law. I would entrust him
Speaker 1: to do a citizen's arrest. Oh yeah, I've met him. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I can see him doing the citizens arrest following the books,
Speaker 1: or when it goes south like putting you like twisting
Speaker 1: your arm behind your back or you're screaming uncle. Uh. Yeah,
Speaker 1: but even in his case, it can go south, you know. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I can go south in anybody. So he's got a gun,
Speaker 1: he didn't see it, and then it's like it's all
Speaker 1: over for him. That's no good. No one wants that.
Speaker 1: That's right. See something, say something, not see something. Sit
Speaker 1: on them. Man. This episode is so fraught it's crazy.
Speaker 1: I think the message is clear. Okay, if you want
Speaker 1: to know more about Citizens Arrest, you can go read
Speaker 1: the blog post on it on Stuff you Should Know
Speaker 1: dot com. Um. You can also just search citizens Arrest
Speaker 1: and have hours of entertainment about and learn why you
Speaker 1: shouldn't do this kind of thing. Uh. And since I
Speaker 1: said you shouldn't do this, it's time for listener mail.
Speaker 1: I'm gonna call this the film Vault. Our buddy Brian
Speaker 1: Bishop of The Adam Corolla Show, and I emailed him
Speaker 1: back from this and said, this is just the worst
Speaker 1: kind of buzz marketing. Well, I'm gonna take him to
Speaker 1: task on air. Brian is um. He works on The
Speaker 1: Adam Corolla Show and he also has a podcast, The
Speaker 1: Zone called The Film Vault, which is great, and uh,
Speaker 1: we'll get him a little plug too. He also wrote
Speaker 1: a great book called Shrinkage, Manhood, Marriage, and the Tumor
Speaker 1: That Tried to Kill Me about his battle with cancer.
Speaker 1: Great book. So Brian took us to task and he said, hey, guys,
Speaker 1: I was listening to a recent episode and the subject
Speaker 1: of Hollywood remakes came up. You guys are correcting this
Speaker 1: because we bagged on pretty much all remakes or you did. Yes,
Speaker 1: you guys are correct in the sense that the vast
Speaker 1: majority are terrible. There are a few good, dare I
Speaker 1: say great ones. However, we did an entire film Vault
Speaker 1: episode on top five remakes, and here's my list with
Speaker 1: some honorable mentions. And I told him we will just
Speaker 1: take him to task right here. So number one on
Speaker 1: his list is when I have a problem with Vanilla Sky. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I didn't think that was a very good movie. What
Speaker 1: when did they make that? Originally it was a Spanish
Speaker 1: language movie, just like the year before. Um, I can't
Speaker 1: remember the name of it, Dreams Open Your Eyes, I
Speaker 1: think in Spanish whatever that is, so that um Cameron
Speaker 1: Crow Remakes is Vanilla s guy, And I didn't think
Speaker 1: it was a good That was his number one. Have
Speaker 1: you seen his uh, Cameron Crow's latest movie. No, No,
Speaker 1: I don't. I don't want to either. I used to
Speaker 1: love that day, like he was my hero, my filmmaking hero.
Speaker 1: I read this article. Um it was a poll of
Speaker 1: just like a straw poll of critics movie critics around
Speaker 1: the um the internet, like what director has let you
Speaker 1: down the most? Yeah, and he was one of them
Speaker 1: that was listed because he was so great and it's
Speaker 1: just gone so downhill, far and away. The guy with
Speaker 1: the most votes was m Night Sha Milan one good movie,
Speaker 1: which like they still love him in Philadelphia. We found
Speaker 1: out that's right alright. Number two, The Departed. I'm gonna
Speaker 1: say yes for that for sure. That was I think
Speaker 1: a Japanese movie called Infernal Affairs that Scorcese read a
Speaker 1: Little Shop of Horrors. I honestly, I've never seen it,
Speaker 1: so I have no opinion. I didn't know they remade
Speaker 1: it Casino Royale. That's technically I guess you could call
Speaker 1: that a remake. Yeah, but not so really, But no,
Speaker 1: I guess it was. I mean it was the same plot,
Speaker 1: all right. It was the same plot. Yeah, for the
Speaker 1: most part. Ocean's Eleven. I'll hand it to him there.
Speaker 1: I thought Ocean's Eleven was a really good movie and
Speaker 1: a great remake. Okay, yeah, and then his honorable mention
Speaker 1: the Italian Job. I never saw it. You never saw
Speaker 1: the remake? Nope, I didn't either. No, I saw the remake.
Speaker 1: I never saw the original. It was not great, and
Speaker 1: he was stretching with that one. The Fly. I didn't
Speaker 1: know the Fly. I had an original. So I'm gonna
Speaker 1: go ahead and say great then, because cronenbergs the Fly,
Speaker 1: it's awesome. Yeah, man, the the original fly. It has
Speaker 1: Vincent Price in it and it ends with um they
Speaker 1: like they switch. That's the thing, right, So like there's
Speaker 1: a there's a human with a fly head freaky, and
Speaker 1: then there's a fly with the human head and that
Speaker 1: fly gets trapped in the spider's web at the end,
Speaker 1: get the most unsettling sound where it's like, wow, it's
Speaker 1: really disconcerted. I just got like chill bumps. Very well done.
Speaker 1: I feel like we done that before. And people wrote
Speaker 1: in We're like, don't do the fly impression. It's really unsettling.
Speaker 1: The brindle fly. No, the original, the original fly. Uh.
Speaker 1: He has the Ring, of course, the original Japanese version Ringo.
Speaker 1: I believe I wasn't a big fan of the Ring.
Speaker 1: It was fine. Three ten to Yuma, pretty good Western,
Speaker 1: pretty good remake. I'll give him that. Did you ever
Speaker 1: see the original for the Grudge? I think it's called
Speaker 1: like You You ju On Dude good. Probably the best
Speaker 1: Japanese horror film of all time, which is saying something
Speaker 1: it was so good, prove me wrong, people. I'm always
Speaker 1: looking for a good horror movie, and if you have
Speaker 1: one that really top you on, not a different one,
Speaker 1: but one that is actually better than you want, I
Speaker 1: want to know about it, all right. And then he
Speaker 1: finishes up the honorable mention list with Scarface, which just
Speaker 1: put that instead of Vanilla Sky, and you've got a
Speaker 1: pretty decent top five. His Scarface is great, Brian to
Speaker 1: palms re of I think that had been done a
Speaker 1: couple of times, if I'm not mistaken. What was it?
Speaker 1: Jimmy Cagney was the first one, right, I think, so, uh,
Speaker 1: Jimmy Cagney, and then Jimmy Stewart. Oh yeah, Fred McMurray.
Speaker 1: So so, Brian goes to say this was back in
Speaker 1: two thousand tens, so it may have been some good
Speaker 1: ones since then, actually, but just so you don't lose
Speaker 1: all hope that a remake can't be anything but awful.
Speaker 1: That from our buddy Thanks, who just recently throughout the
Speaker 1: first pitch a professional baseball and so did our friend
Speaker 1: Nick Thune, And I'm like, what do you gotta do?
Speaker 1: I want to throw out our first pitch? What what team?
Speaker 1: The Giants? It wasn't the Giants did it in Seattle
Speaker 1: where he's from. So he got to the field and
Speaker 1: he like wore a full uniform and did the full
Speaker 1: wind up and like, look good. Brian did it at
Speaker 1: a Padres game even though he's a Giants fan, and um,
Speaker 1: I think he said it went pretty well as as well.
Speaker 1: He tells a story on the Adam Coral Show that
Speaker 1: is awesome. Man, I want to do that. Yes, I
Speaker 1: wonder if they'd let us do it together. Just yeah,
Speaker 1: like the thing with two heads. Now they do that.
Speaker 1: They ended up like the Stanley Cup winners, like five
Speaker 1: or six of those guys, and they all did it
Speaker 1: like they through at once, or they all took turnstoring,
Speaker 1: or they they had five catchers and five hockey players
Speaker 1: and they all threw it out at once. All right,
Speaker 1: so there's hope for us. Yeah, just don't look like
Speaker 1: fifty cent or Carl Lewis and you're all set. What
Speaker 1: do you mean those are two of the worst first
Speaker 1: pitches ever? Really happy? Well, I mean I would like
Speaker 1: we would probably practice for a while. I would practice
Speaker 1: a lot. Okay, Well, if you want to get in
Speaker 1: touch with us to have us throughout the first pitch
Speaker 1: of your professional MLB team's game, yeah not minor league,
Speaker 1: not interested? No, uh, we are happy to do so.
Speaker 1: You can tweet to us at s y s K podcast.
Speaker 1: You can join us on Facebook dot com, slash stuff
Speaker 1: you Should Know. You can send us an email to
Speaker 1: stuff Podcast at how stuff Works dot com and has
Speaker 1: always joined us at our home on the whiz ub
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Speaker 1: and thousands of other topics, visit how stuff Works dot com.