1 00:00:00,520 --> 00:00:01,280 Speaker 1: Taking a Walk. 2 00:00:01,440 --> 00:00:03,480 Speaker 2: He grew up in Buffalo, New York, and what he 3 00:00:03,560 --> 00:00:08,880 Speaker 2: calls a gregarious Irish Catholic family with music always playing 4 00:00:08,920 --> 00:00:12,680 Speaker 2: in the house, a grandfather who ran an orchestra and 5 00:00:12,720 --> 00:00:17,480 Speaker 2: played vaudeville with Bill bo Jangles Robinson and two older 6 00:00:17,520 --> 00:00:22,320 Speaker 2: brothers on piano. He studied philosophy at the University of Buffalo, 7 00:00:22,600 --> 00:00:26,720 Speaker 2: then packed up and headed to Greenwich Village, determined to 8 00:00:26,800 --> 00:00:31,440 Speaker 2: make his mark as a troubadour, and he did. I'm 9 00:00:31,520 --> 00:00:34,480 Speaker 2: Buzz's Night and Welcome to the Taken a Walk Podcast. 10 00:00:35,040 --> 00:00:39,360 Speaker 2: When Willie Niles' self titled debut dropped in nineteen eighty, 11 00:00:39,640 --> 00:00:42,040 Speaker 2: The New York Times called him one of the most 12 00:00:42,360 --> 00:00:45,960 Speaker 2: gifted singer songwriters to emerge from the New York scene 13 00:00:46,080 --> 00:00:49,400 Speaker 2: in years. The Who invited him on their summer tour. 14 00:00:50,000 --> 00:00:53,640 Speaker 2: The next Bruce Springsteen, people said, the next Bob Dylan. 15 00:00:54,080 --> 00:00:57,640 Speaker 2: Then came a decade of legal battles that silenced him, 16 00:00:57,800 --> 00:01:01,680 Speaker 2: not forever, but long enough to make the comeback that 17 00:01:01,920 --> 00:01:06,520 Speaker 2: much more remarkable. Because Willie Nile didn't just survive the 18 00:01:06,600 --> 00:01:11,679 Speaker 2: music business, he outlasted it. He's now released over twenty albums, 19 00:01:12,000 --> 00:01:16,440 Speaker 2: earned the devotion of Bono Pete Townsend, Lou Reed, Lusend Williams, 20 00:01:16,480 --> 00:01:19,360 Speaker 2: and Little Stephen and The New Yorker has called him 21 00:01:19,680 --> 00:01:22,800 Speaker 2: one of the most brilliant singer songwriters of the past 22 00:01:22,880 --> 00:01:26,520 Speaker 2: thirty years. His latest album, The Great Yellow Light, was 23 00:01:26,560 --> 00:01:30,240 Speaker 2: inspired by the letters of Vincent Van Go. He's a 24 00:01:30,360 --> 00:01:34,720 Speaker 2: New York City original, a rockers rocker, and coming up next, 25 00:01:34,760 --> 00:01:37,040 Speaker 2: we're going to talk with Willie Nile. 26 00:01:40,440 --> 00:01:41,200 Speaker 1: Taking a Walk. 27 00:01:41,360 --> 00:01:43,840 Speaker 2: It's so great to have Willie Nile on the Take 28 00:01:43,880 --> 00:01:45,039 Speaker 2: in a Walk podcast. 29 00:01:45,240 --> 00:01:49,120 Speaker 3: Welcome Willie, Thanks for having me. I'm happy to be here. 30 00:01:50,320 --> 00:01:54,880 Speaker 2: So is it true you studied philosophy at the University 31 00:01:55,160 --> 00:01:59,720 Speaker 2: of Buffalo and how does a philosophy student end up 32 00:01:59,760 --> 00:02:01,920 Speaker 2: as a rock and roller in Greenwich Village. 33 00:02:03,240 --> 00:02:06,840 Speaker 3: Well, I was a philosophy major at the University of Buffalo, 34 00:02:06,880 --> 00:02:10,519 Speaker 3: but that was purely by accident. When I was back 35 00:02:10,639 --> 00:02:13,360 Speaker 3: years ago, when I was going to University of Buffalo, 36 00:02:13,400 --> 00:02:16,079 Speaker 3: I was just taking classes that I liked. I had 37 00:02:16,120 --> 00:02:18,280 Speaker 3: no you know, kids go to school these days, I 38 00:02:18,400 --> 00:02:21,560 Speaker 3: have a plan in mind. I just was taking classes 39 00:02:21,560 --> 00:02:24,320 Speaker 3: that I liked. I figured i'd ended up being an 40 00:02:24,320 --> 00:02:26,200 Speaker 3: English major because I took a lot of and I 41 00:02:26,200 --> 00:02:28,240 Speaker 3: think it was one course short of being an English 42 00:02:28,240 --> 00:02:31,519 Speaker 3: major as well, and it turned out. My senior year 43 00:02:31,520 --> 00:02:34,160 Speaker 3: I went to visit my guidance counselor, who I had 44 00:02:34,200 --> 00:02:36,640 Speaker 3: never seen. I had him in the class once. George Boger, 45 00:02:36,760 --> 00:02:40,320 Speaker 3: great guy, and I said, how am I doing, you know, 46 00:02:40,480 --> 00:02:42,239 Speaker 3: my senior year. He goes, You're doing good. You're a 47 00:02:42,280 --> 00:02:46,280 Speaker 3: philosophy major and I went what, And I asked, I 48 00:02:46,320 --> 00:02:47,760 Speaker 3: do them. Well, that's great. What can you do with 49 00:02:47,800 --> 00:02:50,880 Speaker 3: a philosophy degree? He said, you can go to graduate 50 00:02:50,919 --> 00:02:53,520 Speaker 3: school and I went in, I'm going to New York 51 00:02:53,560 --> 00:02:57,320 Speaker 3: City to make records. He was really nice, and so was. 52 00:02:57,440 --> 00:03:01,080 Speaker 3: I took courses that I liked, Steve Art and beauty. 53 00:03:01,360 --> 00:03:04,000 Speaker 3: I thought that sounds good. It wasn't It sucked, but 54 00:03:04,960 --> 00:03:07,960 Speaker 3: you know, I just took things I liked, and when 55 00:03:07,960 --> 00:03:10,880 Speaker 3: I was got my degree, I moved to New York 56 00:03:10,919 --> 00:03:14,919 Speaker 3: City seventy two and started, for the first time, just 57 00:03:15,000 --> 00:03:18,040 Speaker 3: jumping up on open open mics and started playing songs. 58 00:03:18,120 --> 00:03:21,200 Speaker 3: That's really how it's I was writing songs all through college, 59 00:03:21,320 --> 00:03:24,679 Speaker 3: you know, and I thought they were good enough that 60 00:03:24,720 --> 00:03:26,760 Speaker 3: it was worth giving it a shot, you know, And 61 00:03:27,560 --> 00:03:27,880 Speaker 3: I did. 62 00:03:29,160 --> 00:03:32,160 Speaker 2: So tell me what the village was like when you arrived. 63 00:03:32,200 --> 00:03:37,320 Speaker 2: I recently on an episode of the podcast had Alan Pepper, 64 00:03:37,400 --> 00:03:41,360 Speaker 2: who owned the bottom Line on and that was obviously 65 00:03:41,400 --> 00:03:44,840 Speaker 2: a great hangout. But who were the people and the 66 00:03:44,880 --> 00:03:48,920 Speaker 2: places that shaped you in those early years in the village. 67 00:03:49,520 --> 00:03:53,680 Speaker 3: The early years in the village we're talking seventy two, 68 00:03:53,880 --> 00:03:57,680 Speaker 3: seventy three and the very early beginning, and it was 69 00:03:58,120 --> 00:04:00,640 Speaker 3: there were open lot of a lot of guitar players. 70 00:04:00,680 --> 00:04:03,360 Speaker 3: You'd see walking down the street with guitars on their back. 71 00:04:03,400 --> 00:04:05,640 Speaker 3: You don't see that much anymore. It's you know, things 72 00:04:05,720 --> 00:04:11,800 Speaker 3: change and folks city the bitter End. The Cafe of 73 00:04:11,880 --> 00:04:15,320 Speaker 3: Go Go was still open at the time, and it 74 00:04:15,360 --> 00:04:20,880 Speaker 3: wasn't long after that that CBGB's opened and I actually 75 00:04:20,880 --> 00:04:22,839 Speaker 3: played there before it became the punk mecca. 76 00:04:23,200 --> 00:04:23,359 Speaker 1: You know. 77 00:04:23,400 --> 00:04:26,479 Speaker 3: I just thought I would get the Village Voice and 78 00:04:26,480 --> 00:04:28,280 Speaker 3: look and see what venues there were. And there was 79 00:04:28,320 --> 00:04:31,640 Speaker 3: a cool ad for this place called CBGB and omphug 80 00:04:32,320 --> 00:04:36,840 Speaker 3: other music for underground Gormandisers. I didn't know what Hilly 81 00:04:36,880 --> 00:04:38,680 Speaker 3: Crystal was smoking when he came up with that, but 82 00:04:39,600 --> 00:04:41,640 Speaker 3: and I like the ads. I walked out to my 83 00:04:41,680 --> 00:04:45,360 Speaker 3: guitar and walked down Bleaker Street, you know, and the 84 00:04:45,440 --> 00:04:49,040 Speaker 3: end of Bleaker Streets the Bowery, and right there it 85 00:04:49,200 --> 00:04:53,400 Speaker 3: just runs right into CBGB's, you know, perpendicular, and there's 86 00:04:53,440 --> 00:04:58,720 Speaker 3: a flophouse a men's shelter above it, and so it 87 00:04:58,800 --> 00:05:02,520 Speaker 3: was really cd back then. You know, now it's more 88 00:05:02,640 --> 00:05:07,760 Speaker 3: chic and gentrified, but it's still cool. But back then 89 00:05:07,800 --> 00:05:10,840 Speaker 3: it was really funky. And I remember walking in and 90 00:05:12,440 --> 00:05:14,800 Speaker 3: I asked the bartender who do I talk to for 91 00:05:14,880 --> 00:05:18,839 Speaker 3: playing here? And she said that would be Hilly. He's 92 00:05:18,880 --> 00:05:21,599 Speaker 3: in the back, he'll be out. So I got a beer, 93 00:05:21,640 --> 00:05:24,680 Speaker 3: sat down. After about twenty minutes, nobody know nothing, So 94 00:05:24,720 --> 00:05:27,760 Speaker 3: I went over to the jukebox. They had a CBGB's 95 00:05:27,800 --> 00:05:33,159 Speaker 3: at a great jukebox, really really good. But I noticed 96 00:05:33,200 --> 00:05:35,960 Speaker 3: the last two songs, the last song album, the last 97 00:05:35,960 --> 00:05:37,640 Speaker 3: forty five that was on there was by a guy 98 00:05:37,720 --> 00:05:41,279 Speaker 3: named Hilly Crystal, and I thought, how many Hillies are 99 00:05:41,320 --> 00:05:43,159 Speaker 3: there in the world. So I put about four dollars 100 00:05:43,160 --> 00:05:45,200 Speaker 3: of quarters and I played the same song like ten 101 00:05:45,240 --> 00:05:47,960 Speaker 3: times in a row, and after about seven or eight 102 00:05:48,000 --> 00:05:50,880 Speaker 3: plays six of it, this guy comes out from the back, 103 00:05:50,960 --> 00:05:54,760 Speaker 3: a grizzly bear who clearly woke up looking all pissed off. 104 00:05:54,800 --> 00:05:58,360 Speaker 3: What the hell I walked up to him and said, hey, Hi, 105 00:05:58,440 --> 00:06:01,400 Speaker 3: are you Hilly. He goes, yeah, I like your song 106 00:06:03,040 --> 00:06:04,880 Speaker 3: and I said, how do you get to play here? 107 00:06:05,560 --> 00:06:08,000 Speaker 3: And he said he just looked at me like I 108 00:06:08,080 --> 00:06:09,599 Speaker 3: looked up and down. He goes, We'll just kid on 109 00:06:09,640 --> 00:06:12,000 Speaker 3: the stage and play me something. So I still on 110 00:06:12,000 --> 00:06:14,240 Speaker 3: the stage, put my acoustic guitar out, played a couple 111 00:06:14,240 --> 00:06:17,719 Speaker 3: of songs and he said, you're hired, and I played. 112 00:06:17,760 --> 00:06:21,560 Speaker 3: There was a jazz pianist from City College that was 113 00:06:22,200 --> 00:06:24,240 Speaker 3: doing the music at the time, and he was really 114 00:06:24,320 --> 00:06:27,520 Speaker 3: nice black guy. He set me up on that night 115 00:06:27,680 --> 00:06:30,920 Speaker 3: and whatever nights I played and I would play. And 116 00:06:30,960 --> 00:06:33,760 Speaker 3: then not long after that, Tom Barlane and Richard Lloyd 117 00:06:33,800 --> 00:06:37,120 Speaker 3: from television walked in and asked Hillie if they could 118 00:06:37,360 --> 00:06:39,839 Speaker 3: start playing on Sunday nights, which they did, and that 119 00:06:40,040 --> 00:06:43,640 Speaker 3: started a whole Patty Smith joined him, and it started 120 00:06:43,680 --> 00:06:50,240 Speaker 3: a whole avalanche of outsiders and loaners and kids with 121 00:06:50,360 --> 00:06:54,039 Speaker 3: visions and wannabes and all the above, and it was 122 00:06:54,080 --> 00:06:55,320 Speaker 3: really great. I used to go to there three or 123 00:06:55,320 --> 00:06:58,120 Speaker 3: four times, so CBGB's I had one foot in the 124 00:06:58,160 --> 00:07:01,440 Speaker 3: acoustic world and one foot in the electric world, just 125 00:07:01,480 --> 00:07:04,080 Speaker 3: because I was broke as a church mouse. I couldn't 126 00:07:04,160 --> 00:07:08,120 Speaker 3: afford a band, you know, so I played acoustic. When 127 00:07:08,120 --> 00:07:10,320 Speaker 3: I would get on stage, was just mean an acoustic guitar, 128 00:07:11,560 --> 00:07:13,360 Speaker 3: and if it was a piano, I had played the piano. 129 00:07:13,720 --> 00:07:15,320 Speaker 3: But I was playing rock and roll songs. So I 130 00:07:15,400 --> 00:07:17,760 Speaker 3: had one foot and acoustic in world and one foot 131 00:07:17,760 --> 00:07:20,520 Speaker 3: in the electric and a lot of interesting people back 132 00:07:20,520 --> 00:07:21,800 Speaker 3: then to say the least. 133 00:07:22,280 --> 00:07:27,480 Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, when I think of your song Vagabond Moon, 134 00:07:27,800 --> 00:07:31,800 Speaker 2: which is just so wonderful to this day, it does 135 00:07:32,680 --> 00:07:35,760 Speaker 2: cast an image to me that feels very much like 136 00:07:36,120 --> 00:07:41,080 Speaker 2: sauntering through the village. Is that really a fair assessment? 137 00:07:41,440 --> 00:07:44,840 Speaker 3: Absolutely? I wrote that song one night. It was about 138 00:07:44,880 --> 00:07:46,720 Speaker 3: three in the morning. I was going out every night 139 00:07:47,400 --> 00:07:50,360 Speaker 3: to clubs and you know, hank bars and just hanging out, 140 00:07:50,480 --> 00:07:53,920 Speaker 3: just taking in the whole scene. That first year I 141 00:07:54,000 --> 00:07:59,800 Speaker 3: was there and in my kitchen, I'm on the top floor. 142 00:08:00,400 --> 00:08:03,160 Speaker 3: It was it was three in the morning, and I 143 00:08:03,200 --> 00:08:05,160 Speaker 3: had my acoustic guitar sitting in the kitchen with a 144 00:08:05,240 --> 00:08:09,440 Speaker 3: lights off, and the moon full moon was shining, and 145 00:08:09,480 --> 00:08:11,400 Speaker 3: the light was coming in through the kitchen last and 146 00:08:11,400 --> 00:08:12,920 Speaker 3: the landing on the floor, and I just thought it 147 00:08:12,960 --> 00:08:15,920 Speaker 3: was so beautiful and I wrote that song, but it's 148 00:08:16,000 --> 00:08:20,800 Speaker 3: very much a backstreet, Grench village song. Yeah. 149 00:08:20,880 --> 00:08:24,200 Speaker 2: So I was talking to you before we started the interview. 150 00:08:24,240 --> 00:08:26,920 Speaker 2: We have some history because I was a program on 151 00:08:27,000 --> 00:08:31,480 Speaker 2: a radio station in Fairfield County, Connecticut. Technically it was Brookfield, 152 00:08:31,520 --> 00:08:36,160 Speaker 2: Connecticut called I ninety five, and we were big fans 153 00:08:36,240 --> 00:08:39,480 Speaker 2: of your music as you were hitting the scene and 154 00:08:39,920 --> 00:08:42,800 Speaker 2: you played a place I believe the venue was called 155 00:08:42,840 --> 00:08:47,240 Speaker 2: Stage three, and in the magic of that era, that 156 00:08:47,400 --> 00:08:50,959 Speaker 2: radio era, we were able to not only be the 157 00:08:50,960 --> 00:08:56,280 Speaker 2: co sponsor or whatever, co presenter of that concert, but 158 00:08:56,400 --> 00:09:00,840 Speaker 2: we also broadcasted live as it was happened. I mean, 159 00:09:01,600 --> 00:09:04,760 Speaker 2: I got chills thinking about that show. It was so fantastic. 160 00:09:05,880 --> 00:09:08,840 Speaker 3: I don't remember the recording, but I remember playing shows 161 00:09:08,880 --> 00:09:12,160 Speaker 3: back then with a great band that I had, you know, JD. 162 00:09:12,280 --> 00:09:15,640 Speaker 3: Doherty on drums, Fred Smith on bass. JD. Doherty played 163 00:09:15,640 --> 00:09:18,720 Speaker 3: with Patty Smith still to this day. Fred Smith, who 164 00:09:18,880 --> 00:09:23,160 Speaker 3: just passed last week. I'm broken hearted about. It's a great, 165 00:09:23,200 --> 00:09:26,480 Speaker 3: great guy who was the television television was my favorite 166 00:09:26,480 --> 00:09:31,240 Speaker 3: band by far back then. They were just so enigmatic. 167 00:09:31,360 --> 00:09:35,520 Speaker 3: So mystical was Tumberlane, Richard Lloyd, Fred Smith, you know, 168 00:09:35,840 --> 00:09:40,120 Speaker 3: Billy Figuett and Fred played bass, and Clay Barnes from 169 00:09:40,120 --> 00:09:44,000 Speaker 3: a band called The Criers played lead guitar, and Peter Hoffman, 170 00:09:44,080 --> 00:09:47,319 Speaker 3: a rocker from Boston, also played lead guitar. So I 171 00:09:47,360 --> 00:09:49,440 Speaker 3: had a mighty band. I had two lead guitar players 172 00:09:49,440 --> 00:09:52,800 Speaker 3: in a great rhythm section and we had fun. That 173 00:09:52,880 --> 00:09:54,160 Speaker 3: I do remember. It was. 174 00:09:54,480 --> 00:09:57,680 Speaker 2: It was outstanding. Now, how did you feel about this 175 00:09:57,840 --> 00:10:01,080 Speaker 2: whole thing which a lot of artists of that time 176 00:10:01,400 --> 00:10:05,880 Speaker 2: were subject to, the whole Oh it's the next Dylan? 177 00:10:06,280 --> 00:10:10,320 Speaker 2: You know, that whole pressure that came upon you? What 178 00:10:10,400 --> 00:10:13,600 Speaker 2: was that like? And when you reflect on it, how 179 00:10:13,600 --> 00:10:16,439 Speaker 2: did does it make you feel? Now? When that came up? 180 00:10:16,880 --> 00:10:18,760 Speaker 3: Well, I remember exactly how it felt, you know, and 181 00:10:18,840 --> 00:10:22,040 Speaker 3: I still feel the same. I just thought it didn't 182 00:10:22,160 --> 00:10:24,360 Speaker 3: it didn't throw me, It didn't put any pressure on 183 00:10:24,440 --> 00:10:27,360 Speaker 3: me at all. I just thought it was ridiculous because 184 00:10:27,480 --> 00:10:29,760 Speaker 3: but I knew that they you know, people were just 185 00:10:29,760 --> 00:10:33,360 Speaker 3: looking for something to compare it to, you know, Oh, 186 00:10:33,400 --> 00:10:35,720 Speaker 3: here's the next this, the next, that next Bob Dylan, 187 00:10:35,760 --> 00:10:40,240 Speaker 3: the next whatever, And uh, I knew. I didn't take 188 00:10:40,280 --> 00:10:42,680 Speaker 3: it seriously at all. I just knew it was just 189 00:10:42,720 --> 00:10:44,200 Speaker 3: a reference that was being used. 190 00:10:44,320 --> 00:10:44,839 Speaker 2: I wasn't. 191 00:10:45,160 --> 00:10:48,760 Speaker 3: I didn't get into the music business, so to speak, 192 00:10:49,160 --> 00:10:51,920 Speaker 3: to become some kind of icon, some kind of idol, 193 00:10:52,520 --> 00:10:55,040 Speaker 3: to be famous. That was really never my focus I 194 00:10:56,240 --> 00:10:58,360 Speaker 3: and it really saved me from a lot of stuff 195 00:10:59,040 --> 00:11:03,360 Speaker 3: that that kind of really focused. I was a songwriter. 196 00:11:03,440 --> 00:11:06,360 Speaker 3: I was a poet writing songs that meant something to me. 197 00:11:07,440 --> 00:11:09,720 Speaker 3: And at the outside world had nothing to do with it. 198 00:11:09,760 --> 00:11:12,120 Speaker 3: I mean everything to do with it, because it influenced me. 199 00:11:12,280 --> 00:11:15,960 Speaker 3: But I was writing songs that, you know, I was 200 00:11:15,960 --> 00:11:19,559 Speaker 3: expressing myself. And when I first started writing poetry, I 201 00:11:19,640 --> 00:11:22,640 Speaker 3: was writing stream of consciousness. And there's no writer wrong 202 00:11:22,679 --> 00:11:25,199 Speaker 3: with stream of consciousness writing. It just is what it is, 203 00:11:25,360 --> 00:11:28,440 Speaker 3: you know. And so I for you know, four years 204 00:11:28,480 --> 00:11:30,880 Speaker 3: at the University of Buffalo, I was writing songs and 205 00:11:31,200 --> 00:11:34,120 Speaker 3: with nobody looking over my shoulder, and so I really 206 00:11:34,120 --> 00:11:37,920 Speaker 3: got a strong foundation of self and like what I 207 00:11:38,000 --> 00:11:40,120 Speaker 3: was doing. So when the first record came out and 208 00:11:40,200 --> 00:11:43,760 Speaker 3: all this, I was very grateful. I'm making no mistake 209 00:11:43,800 --> 00:11:45,920 Speaker 3: about it, for the reviews that I got. I got 210 00:11:46,000 --> 00:11:48,600 Speaker 3: rave reviews across the board. It was one bad review, 211 00:11:49,600 --> 00:11:52,880 Speaker 3: the Boston Phoenix I got slammed, and it made me 212 00:11:53,000 --> 00:11:56,280 Speaker 3: laugh because you know, he wasn't buying it, you know, 213 00:11:56,320 --> 00:11:59,360 Speaker 3: he thought this guy's full of shit, you know. And 214 00:11:59,360 --> 00:12:02,360 Speaker 3: it made me like because every single review was like 215 00:12:02,600 --> 00:12:06,360 Speaker 3: just like so strong and so supportive, and this guy's 216 00:12:06,400 --> 00:12:08,440 Speaker 3: amazing and he's going to be the next this, the 217 00:12:08,480 --> 00:12:11,560 Speaker 3: next that. But I didn't take it seriously, so it 218 00:12:11,600 --> 00:12:14,439 Speaker 3: didn't throw me. It really didn't throw me off by balance. 219 00:12:14,480 --> 00:12:17,480 Speaker 3: To this day, it's I've been very fortunate and Pressed 220 00:12:17,480 --> 00:12:20,560 Speaker 3: has been really good to me. And you know, I 221 00:12:20,720 --> 00:12:24,000 Speaker 3: just like to record my songs as well as I 222 00:12:24,040 --> 00:12:27,719 Speaker 3: can and make the songs come to life and that 223 00:12:28,200 --> 00:12:30,520 Speaker 3: so that means something to me and hopefully they'll mean 224 00:12:30,559 --> 00:12:34,160 Speaker 3: something to somebody else. The whole fame circus I never 225 00:12:34,280 --> 00:12:37,040 Speaker 3: was interested in, was never a part of. That's why 226 00:12:37,080 --> 00:12:39,080 Speaker 3: to this day I'm able just to carry on, and 227 00:12:39,960 --> 00:12:42,600 Speaker 3: you know, with ups and downs of the business. It's 228 00:12:42,679 --> 00:12:45,680 Speaker 3: like nons I walked away in nineteen eighty two after 229 00:12:45,760 --> 00:12:50,480 Speaker 3: two albums and like worldwide, you know, celebrated as the 230 00:12:50,520 --> 00:12:53,679 Speaker 3: next big thing. When it became more about business than 231 00:12:53,720 --> 00:12:57,760 Speaker 3: about music. I had problems with the former manager, former lawyer, 232 00:12:58,760 --> 00:13:01,240 Speaker 3: and it just turned me off so much. I thought 233 00:13:01,480 --> 00:13:03,839 Speaker 3: I told my wife to help with this. Let's get 234 00:13:03,840 --> 00:13:07,080 Speaker 3: out of here. I walked away. Maybe not the smartest 235 00:13:07,080 --> 00:13:10,760 Speaker 3: thing to do, but I just it was bullshit. So 236 00:13:11,280 --> 00:13:14,120 Speaker 3: that doesn't you know, I'm fame doesn't interest me, you know, 237 00:13:14,400 --> 00:13:19,000 Speaker 3: stinking rich. I'm sure that i'd be interested in because 238 00:13:19,080 --> 00:13:20,760 Speaker 3: I could. I could do some good things with the money, 239 00:13:20,760 --> 00:13:22,360 Speaker 3: and I could take care of, you know, my family 240 00:13:22,440 --> 00:13:25,080 Speaker 3: and stuff. But like, that's that's what I was about. 241 00:13:25,160 --> 00:13:28,600 Speaker 3: Back then. I had two kids and four kids and 242 00:13:29,280 --> 00:13:32,520 Speaker 3: a wife to feed, So my concerns were very mundane 243 00:13:32,600 --> 00:13:36,400 Speaker 3: and simple. So the whole comparison thing I didn't. I 244 00:13:36,440 --> 00:13:38,960 Speaker 3: knew it was just nonsense. I never I just didn't 245 00:13:38,960 --> 00:13:39,840 Speaker 3: give it a second thought. 246 00:13:40,920 --> 00:13:44,200 Speaker 2: And we never knew back then the deep story that 247 00:13:44,400 --> 00:13:46,840 Speaker 2: was going on in terms of the legal battles that 248 00:13:46,880 --> 00:13:50,320 Speaker 2: you were faced with. I think there was somewhat, you know, 249 00:13:50,360 --> 00:13:53,440 Speaker 2: we sheltered from us during that period. We knew we 250 00:13:53,520 --> 00:13:56,720 Speaker 2: loved your music, and we became fans instantly, and then 251 00:13:56,800 --> 00:13:59,360 Speaker 2: suddenly we're like, well, we want more of this guy. 252 00:13:59,559 --> 00:14:03,400 Speaker 2: So this, this story was not truly told, at least 253 00:14:03,440 --> 00:14:06,520 Speaker 2: in my view at that time, as clearly as it 254 00:14:06,520 --> 00:14:07,120 Speaker 2: should have been. 255 00:14:07,400 --> 00:14:09,959 Speaker 3: It was brutal it was like it just it's not 256 00:14:10,000 --> 00:14:12,400 Speaker 3: what I expected. I mean, you know, you get into 257 00:14:12,480 --> 00:14:15,560 Speaker 3: a you know, a gold mine oil field kind of business, 258 00:14:15,640 --> 00:14:18,440 Speaker 3: like the record business, where people are following money and 259 00:14:18,520 --> 00:14:21,760 Speaker 3: smelling it and wanting it. And that was not where 260 00:14:21,760 --> 00:14:24,320 Speaker 3: I was coming from. And I had problems with the 261 00:14:24,360 --> 00:14:27,800 Speaker 3: former manager, problems with the lawyer. We had the same lawyer, 262 00:14:28,240 --> 00:14:31,440 Speaker 3: which was which was conflict of interest, and I'm going 263 00:14:31,440 --> 00:14:34,560 Speaker 3: to arbitration during the day doing shows at night. And 264 00:14:34,600 --> 00:14:36,680 Speaker 3: it just all these managers coming from out of the 265 00:14:36,680 --> 00:14:39,080 Speaker 3: woodwork wanted to manage me because that was a double 266 00:14:39,120 --> 00:14:43,119 Speaker 3: Paige spread and Billboard magazine, you know, the next big thing. Nonsense. 267 00:14:43,840 --> 00:14:46,240 Speaker 3: I mean, I'm grateful that the record company they probably 268 00:14:46,240 --> 00:14:48,320 Speaker 3: pushed too hard, you know people it was a backlash 269 00:14:48,320 --> 00:14:51,800 Speaker 3: to that, but I had no control over that. But 270 00:14:52,560 --> 00:14:54,320 Speaker 3: it just turned me off. I just thought that that 271 00:14:54,760 --> 00:14:56,800 Speaker 3: killed I said to my wife, they're killing my buzz 272 00:14:56,840 --> 00:15:00,680 Speaker 3: for music. I don't want that to happen. So we 273 00:15:00,760 --> 00:15:04,800 Speaker 3: just left town. From my back it disappeared and it 274 00:15:04,880 --> 00:15:06,960 Speaker 3: took It was ten years later that I put another 275 00:15:06,960 --> 00:15:10,320 Speaker 3: record out. You know, I went to Buffalo. She was pregnant, 276 00:15:10,440 --> 00:15:14,520 Speaker 3: and you know, I continued to write. I'll always write, 277 00:15:14,680 --> 00:15:17,600 Speaker 3: you know. I don't write because somebody says to write. 278 00:15:17,640 --> 00:15:19,920 Speaker 3: I just write because it's my natural way of expressing 279 00:15:19,960 --> 00:15:22,920 Speaker 3: myself and I love it to this day. And then 280 00:15:23,120 --> 00:15:26,560 Speaker 3: I'm still very very lucky that the inspiration's still coming 281 00:15:26,600 --> 00:15:30,040 Speaker 3: out strong, very very lucky. So I went back to Buffalo. 282 00:15:30,040 --> 00:15:32,480 Speaker 3: I was writing and writing, you know, which is what 283 00:15:32,560 --> 00:15:35,240 Speaker 3: I do. And it was really hard times. You know, 284 00:15:36,160 --> 00:15:38,840 Speaker 3: money ran out, I had to borrow money. I was writing. 285 00:15:38,880 --> 00:15:41,120 Speaker 3: And then a couple of years in that was when 286 00:15:41,120 --> 00:15:44,080 Speaker 3: I thought I got songs I want to record and 287 00:15:44,120 --> 00:15:47,160 Speaker 3: I couldn't get arrested, made phone calls, you know, because 288 00:15:47,200 --> 00:15:50,400 Speaker 3: that tapes out of new songs, and nobody was interested. 289 00:15:50,600 --> 00:15:54,160 Speaker 3: They followed in general, people follow the hype, you know. 290 00:15:54,600 --> 00:15:57,200 Speaker 3: And at that time I was I was in Siberia. 291 00:15:57,640 --> 00:15:59,120 Speaker 3: I was up and outside of the Buffalo, but it 292 00:15:59,160 --> 00:16:01,920 Speaker 3: was basically Siberia. Really hard time. We had a great 293 00:16:01,960 --> 00:16:04,960 Speaker 3: you know. This was the one silver lining about those 294 00:16:05,080 --> 00:16:09,200 Speaker 3: years in Buffalo, which was about nine years, was that 295 00:16:09,240 --> 00:16:11,320 Speaker 3: I was able to be home all the time with 296 00:16:11,920 --> 00:16:15,200 Speaker 3: them and my children growing up. So we became very 297 00:16:15,280 --> 00:16:17,800 Speaker 3: very close. It's a very close family to this day. 298 00:16:18,160 --> 00:16:20,800 Speaker 3: So that was the one, but otherwise it was really stressful, 299 00:16:20,800 --> 00:16:22,800 Speaker 3: trying to feed a family with knowing. I mean, I 300 00:16:22,800 --> 00:16:25,680 Speaker 3: got a publishing deal in the middle of that, which 301 00:16:25,800 --> 00:16:30,440 Speaker 3: really saved my ass. But I didn't mind walking away. 302 00:16:30,720 --> 00:16:32,640 Speaker 3: I didn't want him to kill my you know, I 303 00:16:32,640 --> 00:16:35,360 Speaker 3: love music more than ever. And the record companies that 304 00:16:35,440 --> 00:16:38,320 Speaker 3: tried for me aris that totally tried, and I'm very 305 00:16:38,320 --> 00:16:41,840 Speaker 3: grateful Clive Davis and his team there people tried for me. 306 00:16:41,920 --> 00:16:44,800 Speaker 3: I'm grateful for that. And when I signed a Columbia 307 00:16:45,320 --> 00:16:48,960 Speaker 3: and eighty eight. That record came out in ninety one. 308 00:16:49,960 --> 00:16:52,720 Speaker 3: Rick Trdoff signed me, tried for me, and the timing 309 00:16:52,800 --> 00:16:56,360 Speaker 3: was wrong. He was by the time the record got made. 310 00:16:56,520 --> 00:16:58,280 Speaker 3: I was waiting for him to produce it, and he 311 00:16:58,320 --> 00:17:02,360 Speaker 3: was producing Patty's Smythe and the Hooters and Temmy Conwell. 312 00:17:02,840 --> 00:17:04,800 Speaker 3: I had to wait. I wanted him to produce it. 313 00:17:05,680 --> 00:17:08,359 Speaker 3: By then he was in the doghouse and on the 314 00:17:08,359 --> 00:17:10,879 Speaker 3: way out. So my record came out, did you know. 315 00:17:11,720 --> 00:17:13,440 Speaker 3: I was told later that it was dead before it 316 00:17:13,480 --> 00:17:15,400 Speaker 3: came out, But I got to make it. And Richard 317 00:17:15,440 --> 00:17:18,280 Speaker 3: Thompson plays on it, and a lot of White Right 318 00:17:18,320 --> 00:17:22,800 Speaker 3: sings on it, and Wicks Paul Wickens, McCartney's keyboard player, 319 00:17:22,880 --> 00:17:27,440 Speaker 3: and Robbie McIntosh, a great art guitar player from the UK, 320 00:17:27,640 --> 00:17:31,560 Speaker 3: played the Pretenders. And I mean, so I got to make. 321 00:17:31,440 --> 00:17:32,080 Speaker 2: A great record. 322 00:17:32,119 --> 00:17:34,640 Speaker 3: I'm very, very hap happy Richard Thompson for crying out 323 00:17:34,640 --> 00:17:38,359 Speaker 3: loud and his bare feet come on. So I mean, 324 00:17:38,920 --> 00:17:41,280 Speaker 3: it's very naive of me to think that way, you know, 325 00:17:41,400 --> 00:17:43,399 Speaker 3: because you know, I was living and dying on the 326 00:17:43,480 --> 00:17:47,600 Speaker 3: income and it just came out. And someone told me 327 00:17:47,640 --> 00:17:50,399 Speaker 3: later that the president at the time said at one meeting, 328 00:17:50,920 --> 00:17:52,960 Speaker 3: this record has four weeks to happen on its owner. 329 00:17:53,200 --> 00:17:56,520 Speaker 3: It's done. So that's not how it works. You know, 330 00:17:56,520 --> 00:17:58,399 Speaker 3: they got to promote it and stuff, and there's a 331 00:17:58,400 --> 00:18:01,200 Speaker 3: few people at the label really did you know, which 332 00:18:01,200 --> 00:18:04,080 Speaker 3: from which I'm grateful. So, you know, no chip on 333 00:18:04,119 --> 00:18:06,560 Speaker 3: my shoulder. And that was the idea of walking away 334 00:18:06,560 --> 00:18:10,040 Speaker 3: from the record business. When I first moved here, one 335 00:18:10,080 --> 00:18:13,199 Speaker 3: of the really predominant things I saw was a lot 336 00:18:13,240 --> 00:18:16,359 Speaker 3: of musicians with chips on the shoulder. Oh why not me? 337 00:18:16,640 --> 00:18:18,240 Speaker 3: Oh you know, I'm better than this guy. 338 00:18:18,359 --> 00:18:18,760 Speaker 2: Bubbah. 339 00:18:19,240 --> 00:18:22,760 Speaker 3: I want I want no part of that nonsense. So 340 00:18:23,000 --> 00:18:24,240 Speaker 3: you know, I to this day I don't have a 341 00:18:24,280 --> 00:18:27,440 Speaker 3: chip on my shoulder. I'm very grateful for the journey 342 00:18:27,480 --> 00:18:29,320 Speaker 3: has not been easy. You know, it's hard for my 343 00:18:29,480 --> 00:18:32,920 Speaker 3: my wife and my kids, but no one ever complained, 344 00:18:33,000 --> 00:18:35,440 Speaker 3: not once. Deeply grateful for that. 345 00:18:36,400 --> 00:18:38,600 Speaker 1: We'll be right back with more of the Taking a 346 00:18:38,600 --> 00:18:46,840 Speaker 1: Walk Podcast. Welcome back to the Taking a Walk Podcast. 347 00:18:48,080 --> 00:18:51,760 Speaker 2: Lucinda Williams once said, if there was any justice in 348 00:18:51,840 --> 00:18:54,720 Speaker 2: the world, I'd be opening up for him instead of 349 00:18:55,119 --> 00:18:57,760 Speaker 2: him for me. When you hear something like that from 350 00:18:57,840 --> 00:19:01,639 Speaker 2: a peer of that caliber or what goes through your mind. 351 00:19:02,240 --> 00:19:06,000 Speaker 3: Well, I love I love us and that. When she 352 00:19:06,080 --> 00:19:09,280 Speaker 3: said that, we were down in Nashville. I think it 353 00:19:09,359 --> 00:19:12,160 Speaker 3: was the year two thousand something like that. I had 354 00:19:12,160 --> 00:19:14,760 Speaker 3: just put out Beautiful reck of the World on my 355 00:19:14,800 --> 00:19:20,200 Speaker 3: own label, and I met her at after a show 356 00:19:20,200 --> 00:19:23,120 Speaker 3: in New York, and she invited me down to Nashville 357 00:19:23,359 --> 00:19:27,040 Speaker 3: and literally set up a week of weeks worth of gigs, 358 00:19:27,119 --> 00:19:29,800 Speaker 3: put a band together for me. We did I played, 359 00:19:29,960 --> 00:19:32,280 Speaker 3: I think a couple of gigs with a band. I 360 00:19:32,320 --> 00:19:35,639 Speaker 3: did a solo gig. We did a songwriter circle in 361 00:19:35,680 --> 00:19:38,040 Speaker 3: which she was a part of. There were lines down 362 00:19:38,119 --> 00:19:43,640 Speaker 3: the block to see Lucinda and these other wonderful uh songwriters. 363 00:19:44,240 --> 00:19:46,159 Speaker 3: And I'm sitting next to her watching her sing. I'm 364 00:19:46,160 --> 00:19:48,360 Speaker 3: looking she's right next to me. I'm looking at her throat, going, 365 00:19:48,720 --> 00:19:52,000 Speaker 3: where's that voice coming from? You know that that amazing voice. 366 00:19:52,119 --> 00:19:55,800 Speaker 3: Nobody sounds like Lyscinda and I played a song on 367 00:19:55,840 --> 00:19:58,920 Speaker 3: the Road to Calvary and she just looked over when 368 00:19:58,920 --> 00:20:01,560 Speaker 3: I was done, and she goes, that's the most beautiful 369 00:20:01,600 --> 00:20:02,680 Speaker 3: song I've ever heard in my life. 370 00:20:02,800 --> 00:20:03,360 Speaker 1: Something like that. 371 00:20:03,400 --> 00:20:04,240 Speaker 2: And she said. 372 00:20:04,560 --> 00:20:09,280 Speaker 3: That's when she made that quote about opening up for me. No, no, no, 373 00:20:09,359 --> 00:20:13,399 Speaker 3: that's not no. It was later that year she played 374 00:20:13,400 --> 00:20:17,399 Speaker 3: in New York City at Roseland Ballroom, legendary venue. You know, 375 00:20:17,680 --> 00:20:22,960 Speaker 3: Duke Ellington, Louis Armstrong, great bands. So she played the 376 00:20:23,119 --> 00:20:25,639 Speaker 3: Roseland Ballroom and I opened up and opened up the 377 00:20:25,640 --> 00:20:29,720 Speaker 3: show with my band. This was two thousand, had a great, 378 00:20:29,760 --> 00:20:33,360 Speaker 3: great band. I've been lucky with having great bands. We 379 00:20:33,400 --> 00:20:35,320 Speaker 3: opened up the show. It was packed. You couldn't get 380 00:20:35,400 --> 00:20:37,480 Speaker 3: up a toothpick in the room. It was so crowded 381 00:20:37,480 --> 00:20:39,920 Speaker 3: because she had just put out her great album, Carl 382 00:20:39,920 --> 00:20:43,679 Speaker 3: Wheels on a Gravel Road, utter masterpiece. You know, if 383 00:20:43,720 --> 00:20:46,360 Speaker 3: anybody hasn't heard that record, Carl Wheels on a gravel Road. 384 00:20:47,080 --> 00:20:51,239 Speaker 3: I highly recommend it. It's just brilliant. And so we 385 00:20:51,280 --> 00:20:54,040 Speaker 3: did it. We opened up. We got a great response, 386 00:20:54,080 --> 00:20:56,520 Speaker 3: and I'm up in the dressing room taking off my 387 00:20:56,520 --> 00:21:00,600 Speaker 3: wet clothes and somebody came running the telling me what 388 00:21:00,680 --> 00:21:03,560 Speaker 3: she said. She just said to the crowd. You know, 389 00:21:03,640 --> 00:21:06,080 Speaker 3: if it was any justice in this world, I'd be 390 00:21:06,119 --> 00:21:07,760 Speaker 3: open up for Willi and Ale instead of him. I 391 00:21:07,800 --> 00:21:11,240 Speaker 3: want it from me. Well, that just shows you what 392 00:21:11,359 --> 00:21:16,040 Speaker 3: a quality class act Lucinda Williams is. You know, in 393 00:21:16,440 --> 00:21:21,160 Speaker 3: an industry filled with wannabees, pretenders and people with big egos, 394 00:21:21,200 --> 00:21:25,639 Speaker 3: here's Lucinda Williams champion and other artists that she loves 395 00:21:25,640 --> 00:21:28,680 Speaker 3: and respects. And she's done that with many artists. I'm 396 00:21:28,720 --> 00:21:31,920 Speaker 3: not the only one that she's champion, and I think 397 00:21:31,960 --> 00:21:35,399 Speaker 3: the world I love her dearly, you know, and that 398 00:21:35,520 --> 00:21:38,359 Speaker 3: made me feel. I mean, the money can't buy some things, 399 00:21:39,080 --> 00:21:41,840 Speaker 3: you know, if I was stinking rich, I couldn't buy that, 400 00:21:42,359 --> 00:21:44,560 Speaker 3: you know, So God bless her for saying that. 401 00:21:45,800 --> 00:21:52,400 Speaker 2: You've also had some incredible writing collaboration and other collaboration 402 00:21:52,640 --> 00:21:56,080 Speaker 2: with one of my favorites. He's been on the podcast 403 00:21:56,119 --> 00:22:00,560 Speaker 2: Steve Earle talking about your work with Steve and what 404 00:22:00,640 --> 00:22:01,920 Speaker 2: that means to you. 405 00:22:02,320 --> 00:22:06,080 Speaker 3: Oh my god, Steve Url. So, Steve Earl lived like 406 00:22:06,280 --> 00:22:11,119 Speaker 3: literally three doors down from me. I'm in the middle 407 00:22:11,119 --> 00:22:15,520 Speaker 3: of ground fills right now and near the corner mcdouglin Bleaker, 408 00:22:16,440 --> 00:22:18,960 Speaker 3: and he lived a couple of doors over on Bleaker Street, 409 00:22:19,520 --> 00:22:22,000 Speaker 3: and so I would see him all the time, and 410 00:22:22,080 --> 00:22:26,919 Speaker 3: we became friends. He has a nonverbal autistic son, you know, 411 00:22:27,200 --> 00:22:31,240 Speaker 3: a great, great burden, and he doesn't tour anymore for Mike, 412 00:22:31,400 --> 00:22:34,600 Speaker 3: mostly from September and to May, to be a single 413 00:22:34,640 --> 00:22:37,280 Speaker 3: parent taking care of that boy. I'll see him on 414 00:22:37,280 --> 00:22:38,960 Speaker 3: the street coming back from a Yankee game with. 415 00:22:38,920 --> 00:22:40,040 Speaker 2: His son, you know. 416 00:22:40,200 --> 00:22:42,879 Speaker 3: And so I really grew to love Steve. You know, 417 00:22:42,920 --> 00:22:45,199 Speaker 3: I obviously a huge fan of his work. He's one 418 00:22:45,240 --> 00:22:49,560 Speaker 3: of America's great songwriters. I mean, I ain't never satisfied. 419 00:22:49,640 --> 00:22:52,280 Speaker 3: Guitar Town. You can just go down the Revolution starts now, 420 00:22:52,400 --> 00:22:55,040 Speaker 3: you can just go down the list of masterpieces that 421 00:22:55,080 --> 00:22:58,040 Speaker 3: he's written. He's like Johnny Cash to me. I love Steve. 422 00:22:58,840 --> 00:23:01,880 Speaker 3: And so I was making this record called The Day 423 00:23:01,920 --> 00:23:04,520 Speaker 3: the Ear Stood Still, and there's a song on it 424 00:23:04,600 --> 00:23:08,560 Speaker 3: called Blood on Your Hands, which was about COVID politics, 425 00:23:09,440 --> 00:23:12,120 Speaker 3: all about all the people who died out of mismanagement 426 00:23:12,880 --> 00:23:16,520 Speaker 3: and uh, which I consider murder. And I wrote a 427 00:23:16,600 --> 00:23:19,320 Speaker 3: song called Blood on Your Hands and we were mixed 428 00:23:19,359 --> 00:23:22,160 Speaker 3: in it, and I thought, you know, maybe Steve might 429 00:23:22,240 --> 00:23:25,840 Speaker 3: want to sing on this, so I texted him send 430 00:23:25,840 --> 00:23:29,640 Speaker 3: on the song. Five minutes later, I'm in, that's it, 431 00:23:30,200 --> 00:23:33,199 Speaker 3: you know, And there's there's a there's a video of 432 00:23:33,240 --> 00:23:36,440 Speaker 3: it if people go to YouTube and look up blood 433 00:23:36,480 --> 00:23:40,080 Speaker 3: on your Hands with Willie All and Steve Earle. I'm 434 00:23:40,160 --> 00:23:42,280 Speaker 3: so I can't tell you how moved I am. It's 435 00:23:42,320 --> 00:23:45,520 Speaker 3: like Lucinda, you know, there's two giants. And then when 436 00:23:45,560 --> 00:23:48,080 Speaker 3: I think a year later, I wrote a song called 437 00:23:48,080 --> 00:23:51,399 Speaker 3: wake Up America, and I was going to put I 438 00:23:51,440 --> 00:23:53,200 Speaker 3: wanted to put out as a single, which I did 439 00:23:53,359 --> 00:23:56,880 Speaker 3: before the election. Yeah. I love people. I love this country, 440 00:23:56,960 --> 00:23:58,680 Speaker 3: you know, and I think that it's a lot better 441 00:23:58,720 --> 00:24:00,879 Speaker 3: than it only appears to be. 442 00:24:01,200 --> 00:24:01,399 Speaker 2: You know. 443 00:24:01,520 --> 00:24:03,159 Speaker 3: I think there's a lot of good people in this country, 444 00:24:03,200 --> 00:24:07,280 Speaker 3: and people disagreeing on the facts, you know, because there's 445 00:24:07,280 --> 00:24:11,160 Speaker 3: so many news outlets nobody is about to believe and 446 00:24:11,280 --> 00:24:14,240 Speaker 3: people it's so divided. It's so sad. This is out 447 00:24:14,240 --> 00:24:16,040 Speaker 3: of tragedy. I mean, it's not going to last forever, 448 00:24:16,080 --> 00:24:19,240 Speaker 3: but it's pretty bad. And there's a lot of great people, 449 00:24:19,880 --> 00:24:23,639 Speaker 3: you know, in this country, and I think the vision, 450 00:24:23,760 --> 00:24:27,040 Speaker 3: the dream that is this country is still alive. It's 451 00:24:27,280 --> 00:24:30,440 Speaker 3: pretty buried right now. But I don't wake up America. 452 00:24:30,600 --> 00:24:33,320 Speaker 3: Just everybody like, hey, we can do better. Bobby Kennedy 453 00:24:33,440 --> 00:24:35,320 Speaker 3: used to say that we're good people, but we can 454 00:24:35,359 --> 00:24:39,760 Speaker 3: do better. Neighbors being neighbors. Don't be jumping to conclusions, 455 00:24:39,960 --> 00:24:42,439 Speaker 3: you know, let's not be judging so fast. We're all 456 00:24:42,520 --> 00:24:45,760 Speaker 3: immigrants here other than the first nations, people that are 457 00:24:46,160 --> 00:24:48,879 Speaker 3: that were here when the Europeans came over, and all 458 00:24:48,920 --> 00:24:51,480 Speaker 3: the people came from different countries. This is a country 459 00:24:51,480 --> 00:24:56,520 Speaker 3: of immigrants, and shame on this assault on immigrants. It's 460 00:24:56,640 --> 00:24:59,840 Speaker 3: just for show, and it's just for appealing to a base, 461 00:25:00,080 --> 00:25:03,399 Speaker 3: you know, and it's it's a shame. We're better than this. 462 00:25:03,760 --> 00:25:06,359 Speaker 3: And I think if people knew there's a line if 463 00:25:06,840 --> 00:25:10,640 Speaker 3: in blood in your hands, no uncle getting ugly out there. 464 00:25:10,680 --> 00:25:12,600 Speaker 3: If the people ever knew what was really going on, 465 00:25:13,520 --> 00:25:15,760 Speaker 3: there'd be another politician would be dead and gone. I mean, 466 00:25:16,640 --> 00:25:18,560 Speaker 3: I believe in this country and I think that we 467 00:25:18,560 --> 00:25:21,200 Speaker 3: can do better. I think we will. And I wrote 468 00:25:21,200 --> 00:25:24,280 Speaker 3: wake Up America and I same thing. I texted Steve, Hey, Steve, 469 00:25:24,320 --> 00:25:26,320 Speaker 3: you want to sing on this. I get a text 470 00:25:26,359 --> 00:25:30,920 Speaker 3: message back. Five minutes later. I'm in and there's a video. 471 00:25:31,280 --> 00:25:33,120 Speaker 3: It's on the new I put it on the new album. 472 00:25:33,240 --> 00:25:35,680 Speaker 3: My new album is called The Great Yellow Light, which 473 00:25:35,720 --> 00:25:38,760 Speaker 3: I'm so proud of, and it's one of my favorite 474 00:25:38,800 --> 00:25:43,840 Speaker 3: records that I've made and I love them all. And uh, 475 00:25:43,920 --> 00:25:46,280 Speaker 3: wake Up America is on that album, and there's a 476 00:25:46,359 --> 00:25:49,480 Speaker 3: video that's out. We put we reput it out. I 477 00:25:49,480 --> 00:25:51,560 Speaker 3: think we've got three hundred thousand people looking at it 478 00:25:51,640 --> 00:25:55,800 Speaker 3: or whatever. Wake Up America and Steve Earl's in it. 479 00:25:56,240 --> 00:25:58,840 Speaker 3: You know, it's a it's a prayer and a love 480 00:25:58,920 --> 00:26:02,200 Speaker 3: song to this country. You know that we can do better, 481 00:26:02,240 --> 00:26:03,480 Speaker 3: and I believe that we will. 482 00:26:04,280 --> 00:26:07,240 Speaker 2: A new album, The Great yellow Light, is great. Love it. 483 00:26:07,240 --> 00:26:11,119 Speaker 2: It's inspired by Van Goes's letters to his brother. What 484 00:26:11,320 --> 00:26:15,760 Speaker 2: is it about Van go that resonated so deeply with you? 485 00:26:17,240 --> 00:26:20,760 Speaker 3: With Van go Like the Great Yellow Light amidst all 486 00:26:20,840 --> 00:26:24,680 Speaker 3: this darkness and division, Like it's pretty dark out there. 487 00:26:24,960 --> 00:26:29,000 Speaker 3: You know, people's spirits are like down, you know. I 488 00:26:29,000 --> 00:26:31,600 Speaker 3: remember in the early sixties when John Kennedy was president 489 00:26:32,320 --> 00:26:35,040 Speaker 3: and there was a Peace Corps and there was you 490 00:26:35,040 --> 00:26:37,680 Speaker 3: can hear New York City outside of my window anyway, 491 00:26:38,920 --> 00:26:43,520 Speaker 3: the fire and ambulance and it. You'd be amazed. During 492 00:26:43,560 --> 00:26:47,240 Speaker 3: COVID how often you heard that all day long and 493 00:26:48,240 --> 00:26:51,200 Speaker 3: long story shorts. So with Van go So, with all 494 00:26:51,200 --> 00:26:54,640 Speaker 3: this darkness. I remember reading years ago one of Van 495 00:26:54,680 --> 00:26:58,840 Speaker 3: Goes's letters to his brother when he moved ar when 496 00:26:58,880 --> 00:27:00,920 Speaker 3: he moved to the south of France. She was blown 497 00:27:00,920 --> 00:27:03,520 Speaker 3: away by I love a huge fan of his work. 498 00:27:04,480 --> 00:27:09,040 Speaker 3: I love Vango, his story, his letters, his paintings. There's 499 00:27:09,080 --> 00:27:12,560 Speaker 3: something primitive that really resonates with me there, and I 500 00:27:12,600 --> 00:27:15,320 Speaker 3: love his work. And he mentioned to his brother that 501 00:27:16,359 --> 00:27:19,320 Speaker 3: he referred to the Great Yellow Light, how it inspired 502 00:27:19,400 --> 00:27:22,879 Speaker 3: him so in South France, and that stuck with me 503 00:27:23,400 --> 00:27:26,440 Speaker 3: and I wrote a song so a couple of years later, 504 00:27:27,040 --> 00:27:31,240 Speaker 3: not long ago, called the Great Yellow Light. And it's 505 00:27:31,280 --> 00:27:34,480 Speaker 3: not about Bango, it's just about inspiration in this case, 506 00:27:35,119 --> 00:27:38,800 Speaker 3: you know, it's it's about love. And I thought the 507 00:27:39,280 --> 00:27:40,920 Speaker 3: I thought that's the title of this record, the Great 508 00:27:40,960 --> 00:27:42,920 Speaker 3: Yellow Light. I wanted to make a record that would 509 00:27:42,960 --> 00:27:48,400 Speaker 3: inspire people, that a feel good record, that that would inspire, 510 00:27:48,600 --> 00:27:51,000 Speaker 3: you know, I mean, wake Up America's on there. It's 511 00:27:51,080 --> 00:27:53,600 Speaker 3: you know, it doesn't puts his foot around this record, 512 00:27:53,600 --> 00:27:57,160 Speaker 3: but it's inspiring. Anybody listens to it, I think you'll, 513 00:27:57,160 --> 00:28:00,000 Speaker 3: you know, you'll feel better whatever it ends with Washington 514 00:28:00,160 --> 00:28:03,240 Speaker 3: Day the album, the last song was called Washington's Day, 515 00:28:03,240 --> 00:28:05,320 Speaker 3: a song I wrote with two of the Hooters, Rob 516 00:28:05,800 --> 00:28:09,960 Speaker 3: Hymen and Eric Bazilian and also my producer at the time, 517 00:28:10,040 --> 00:28:13,600 Speaker 3: Rick Chertoff, wrote the song years ago in nineteen eighty 518 00:28:13,680 --> 00:28:16,359 Speaker 3: eight eighty seven eighty. I just signed with Airs with 519 00:28:16,760 --> 00:28:20,840 Speaker 3: Columbia Records, and I had just written a song and 520 00:28:21,080 --> 00:28:23,199 Speaker 3: wanted to plant for the producer. He was in the 521 00:28:23,200 --> 00:28:25,840 Speaker 3: studio working on a Hooters record. He was in the 522 00:28:25,840 --> 00:28:28,400 Speaker 3: record plant it's I called him up and he said, 523 00:28:28,440 --> 00:28:30,320 Speaker 3: come the boys, the ad band's out here. It's just 524 00:28:30,359 --> 00:28:32,480 Speaker 3: me and the engineer working on a mix. Come on buy. 525 00:28:33,680 --> 00:28:36,320 Speaker 3: So I went by the studio and was waiting for 526 00:28:36,359 --> 00:28:39,120 Speaker 3: them to work on a mix, and he said that 527 00:28:39,160 --> 00:28:42,440 Speaker 3: he told me the song was called Washington's Day, which 528 00:28:42,520 --> 00:28:46,840 Speaker 3: was a reference to July fourth Independence Day. And so 529 00:28:46,840 --> 00:28:48,480 Speaker 3: I'm sitting in the back of the room listened to 530 00:28:48,640 --> 00:28:51,000 Speaker 3: work on this mix, and it was so beautiful. There 531 00:28:51,040 --> 00:28:54,479 Speaker 3: was no lyrics, not a word, and here they are 532 00:28:54,480 --> 00:28:57,479 Speaker 3: mixing the song without a vocal on it, and it 533 00:28:57,520 --> 00:28:59,920 Speaker 3: was like listening to let it be. It was so beautiful. 534 00:29:00,400 --> 00:29:02,720 Speaker 3: And anybody hears that song Washingtons Day, you'll know what 535 00:29:02,720 --> 00:29:06,200 Speaker 3: I mean. It's stunning. And in the back of the room, 536 00:29:06,200 --> 00:29:08,640 Speaker 3: I just pulled out my pen and started writing. Did 537 00:29:08,640 --> 00:29:11,400 Speaker 3: you think I could ever forget the night by the 538 00:29:11,520 --> 00:29:15,000 Speaker 3: Arlington flame and the silence I heard it through streets 539 00:29:15,000 --> 00:29:18,680 Speaker 3: so deserted you whispered and called me by name? Did 540 00:29:18,680 --> 00:29:21,920 Speaker 3: you think I could ever forget the rockets, red glare 541 00:29:21,960 --> 00:29:24,920 Speaker 3: in your eye where Lincoln stood strong? There you held 542 00:29:24,960 --> 00:29:27,160 Speaker 3: me so long there that night and the fourth of 543 00:29:27,240 --> 00:29:31,840 Speaker 3: July and the chorus, I hope and I pray that 544 00:29:31,920 --> 00:29:34,840 Speaker 3: you'll be here with me when the mountains that rise 545 00:29:35,120 --> 00:29:39,240 Speaker 3: tumble into the sea, when the kingdoms that come set 546 00:29:39,280 --> 00:29:41,959 Speaker 3: us free on our way. Hope you'll be here with 547 00:29:42,040 --> 00:29:45,960 Speaker 3: me home on Washington's Day. I got chills just thinking 548 00:29:45,960 --> 00:29:48,880 Speaker 3: about it. It's it's a it's a Romeo and Juliet 549 00:29:48,960 --> 00:29:52,280 Speaker 3: story that takes place in Arlington National Cemetery and the 550 00:29:52,360 --> 00:29:55,920 Speaker 3: lyrics brought now to encompass war and you know, the 551 00:29:56,000 --> 00:29:59,960 Speaker 3: human condition. But it's a it's a song, it's a 552 00:30:00,040 --> 00:30:03,640 Speaker 3: prayer for better things. It's an optimistic end of this album. 553 00:30:03,960 --> 00:30:06,640 Speaker 3: This album is a firecracker. Starts out with wild Wild 554 00:30:06,680 --> 00:30:09,360 Speaker 3: World because it is a wild wild world, you know, 555 00:30:09,440 --> 00:30:12,160 Speaker 3: and it ends with Washington State. So I'm so, you know, 556 00:30:12,240 --> 00:30:15,960 Speaker 3: to answer your question, Van Goo inspires me to this 557 00:30:16,080 --> 00:30:19,720 Speaker 3: day and his phrase A great yellow light inspired that song, 558 00:30:20,880 --> 00:30:23,520 Speaker 3: and it's the heart of the album. It's one of 559 00:30:23,600 --> 00:30:26,080 Speaker 3: my maybe my favorite album. You know. 560 00:30:26,960 --> 00:30:29,720 Speaker 2: I got chills as you were reciting that. It was 561 00:30:29,760 --> 00:30:31,880 Speaker 2: so wonderful. I know you're going to be doing a 562 00:30:31,880 --> 00:30:35,760 Speaker 2: bunch of dates, aren't you. You're that's you always right, My. 563 00:30:35,720 --> 00:30:38,520 Speaker 3: God, my calendars. I got a lot of a lot 564 00:30:38,520 --> 00:30:42,080 Speaker 3: of shows coming up. I'm leaving town next Wednesday, going 565 00:30:42,120 --> 00:30:46,560 Speaker 3: to Tulsa, Oklahoma. The Bob Dylan Center's there and Woody 566 00:30:46,560 --> 00:30:49,480 Speaker 3: Gouthries Center. I was there in July and October in Tulsa, 567 00:30:50,600 --> 00:30:53,600 Speaker 3: and it's just amazing. Anybody listening, if you're looking for 568 00:30:53,640 --> 00:30:56,920 Speaker 3: an interesting trip and you're any kind of a fan 569 00:30:56,960 --> 00:31:01,520 Speaker 3: of Dylan's or Woody gouthries Man is it interesting. Well, 570 00:31:01,520 --> 00:31:04,920 Speaker 3: they're having a sixtieth anniversary event of Blonde on Blonde 571 00:31:04,960 --> 00:31:08,760 Speaker 3: on the twentieth of February, and they've got all these 572 00:31:08,800 --> 00:31:11,760 Speaker 3: really interesting people singing one song each off at Blonde 573 00:31:11,800 --> 00:31:15,280 Speaker 3: on Blonde. Then they asked me to sing absolutely Sweet Marie, 574 00:31:15,600 --> 00:31:18,080 Speaker 3: which I will, and then later in the evening, I'm 575 00:31:18,080 --> 00:31:20,880 Speaker 3: gonna sing like a rolling Stone, talk about shooting fish 576 00:31:20,960 --> 00:31:23,600 Speaker 3: in a barrel. They've got a great backing band. It's 577 00:31:23,640 --> 00:31:26,520 Speaker 3: going to be so much fun, and takes place at 578 00:31:26,560 --> 00:31:31,280 Speaker 3: Cane's Ballroom, which is a legendary thirties roadhouse. And then 579 00:31:31,320 --> 00:31:34,920 Speaker 3: I'm off to I got a Caribbean cruise legend it's 580 00:31:34,960 --> 00:31:39,320 Speaker 3: called the Rock Legends Cruise, which makes me laugh. I 581 00:31:39,320 --> 00:31:42,840 Speaker 3: don't consider myself a rock legend. I consider myself a 582 00:31:42,840 --> 00:31:46,400 Speaker 3: simple poet with a guitar. But and then I'm going 583 00:31:46,440 --> 00:31:48,120 Speaker 3: to Buffalo, and then I'm off to Spain for a 584 00:31:48,160 --> 00:31:51,280 Speaker 3: couple of weeks, tour in Spain, to Italy for a 585 00:31:51,320 --> 00:31:54,240 Speaker 3: tour in Italy, and I'll crash there for a week, 586 00:31:54,880 --> 00:31:56,880 Speaker 3: come back home. And then I got a Midwest tour 587 00:31:56,960 --> 00:32:00,160 Speaker 3: in the middle of April, which with full band, it's 588 00:32:00,160 --> 00:32:03,000 Speaker 3: going to be great. And then I've got a Spanish 589 00:32:03,000 --> 00:32:05,000 Speaker 3: band that backs me in Spain, a great band. And 590 00:32:05,000 --> 00:32:06,880 Speaker 3: I've had an Italian band that backs me in Italy, 591 00:32:06,960 --> 00:32:10,000 Speaker 3: great band. Because it's expensive to take my American guys. 592 00:32:10,040 --> 00:32:12,480 Speaker 3: You know, I'd love to do it, but it costs 593 00:32:12,480 --> 00:32:14,040 Speaker 3: a lot of money. And I'm not a stinking rich 594 00:32:14,080 --> 00:32:16,880 Speaker 3: guy yet, but I'm working on it. And then in 595 00:32:16,960 --> 00:32:18,800 Speaker 3: May I go to the West Coast. I've got a 596 00:32:18,840 --> 00:32:22,280 Speaker 3: solo solo tour out there, so I've got a full 597 00:32:22,320 --> 00:32:26,360 Speaker 3: spring and I'm happy about that. You know, seventy seven 598 00:32:26,440 --> 00:32:30,120 Speaker 3: year old grandpa who loves what he does, and it's 599 00:32:30,160 --> 00:32:31,600 Speaker 3: still fortunately pretty good shape. 600 00:32:31,640 --> 00:32:31,840 Speaker 1: Knock. 601 00:32:31,880 --> 00:32:33,920 Speaker 3: I would because I live on a sixth floor walk up, 602 00:32:34,480 --> 00:32:37,040 Speaker 3: which I have for fifty three years. And I saw 603 00:32:37,240 --> 00:32:40,400 Speaker 3: somebody sent me an article the other day, somebody saying, 604 00:32:40,440 --> 00:32:43,479 Speaker 3: how walking upstairs a sudden burst of it. You know 605 00:32:43,560 --> 00:32:47,080 Speaker 3: how good that can be for you. Well, I've hated 606 00:32:47,080 --> 00:32:49,960 Speaker 3: those stairs for years, but the last few years as 607 00:32:49,960 --> 00:32:52,200 Speaker 3: I walk up, I'm going, thank you, thank you, thank you, 608 00:32:52,280 --> 00:32:55,560 Speaker 3: think as I go up, because it's kept me somewhat fit. 609 00:32:57,400 --> 00:33:00,280 Speaker 2: That's so great. Well, before I let you go, since 610 00:33:00,280 --> 00:33:04,840 Speaker 2: we do call this podcast taking a Walk Willie. I 611 00:33:04,880 --> 00:33:07,200 Speaker 2: have to ask you, if you could take a walk 612 00:33:07,240 --> 00:33:12,760 Speaker 2: with somebody, just suspend disbelief, living or dead, who would 613 00:33:12,800 --> 00:33:13,720 Speaker 2: you take a walk with? 614 00:33:13,800 --> 00:33:13,920 Speaker 1: Then? 615 00:33:14,360 --> 00:33:18,080 Speaker 2: Where would you take that walk with him? That's a 616 00:33:18,120 --> 00:33:18,560 Speaker 2: good one. 617 00:33:20,320 --> 00:33:22,680 Speaker 3: Two places come to mind right away, because I'll often 618 00:33:22,720 --> 00:33:25,320 Speaker 3: ask people if we had a time machine, what three 619 00:33:25,320 --> 00:33:29,280 Speaker 3: places would you want to go? Where would you go? Well, 620 00:33:30,320 --> 00:33:32,080 Speaker 3: there's a number of I'd go a bunch of places. 621 00:33:32,680 --> 00:33:37,880 Speaker 3: I go to Dallas, Texas, nineteen sixty three and see 622 00:33:37,920 --> 00:33:40,760 Speaker 3: what I can do to stop the same with John Lennon, 623 00:33:40,960 --> 00:33:42,880 Speaker 3: you know, and I was in the recording studio and 624 00:33:42,960 --> 00:33:45,560 Speaker 3: that he was killed and the record play at the 625 00:33:45,560 --> 00:33:47,920 Speaker 3: same studio. He was upstairs, I was downstairs and he 626 00:33:48,000 --> 00:33:52,200 Speaker 3: left five minutes later he was murdered. And I would 627 00:33:52,240 --> 00:33:54,160 Speaker 3: know so two places. But if I could take a walk, 628 00:33:54,240 --> 00:33:56,560 Speaker 3: I would go. I would go to Arl France, south 629 00:33:56,560 --> 00:33:58,920 Speaker 3: of France, take a walk with Van Go and just 630 00:33:58,960 --> 00:34:01,840 Speaker 3: to watch his world. And other than that, I would 631 00:34:01,880 --> 00:34:05,000 Speaker 3: go to Homburg, Germany, and I have to take a 632 00:34:05,000 --> 00:34:08,080 Speaker 3: walk with four guys and go walk around Homburg, Germany 633 00:34:08,080 --> 00:34:11,239 Speaker 3: with the Beatles. And those are two magical places for me, 634 00:34:11,920 --> 00:34:14,600 Speaker 3: you know, the south of France with Van goh and Homburg, 635 00:34:14,640 --> 00:34:16,480 Speaker 3: Germany with the Beatles. I'd love to do. 636 00:34:16,480 --> 00:34:20,240 Speaker 2: That, oh Man, Willie Nile, this has been a joy 637 00:34:20,920 --> 00:34:24,319 Speaker 2: reconnecting with you, the great Willie Nile. See him when 638 00:34:24,320 --> 00:34:27,080 Speaker 2: he's out on the road. Check out the Great Yellow 639 00:34:27,160 --> 00:34:30,200 Speaker 2: Light and his entire catalog. It's an honor to be 640 00:34:30,280 --> 00:34:32,319 Speaker 2: with you, Willie. And thanks for being on the Taking 641 00:34:32,400 --> 00:34:33,960 Speaker 2: a Walk podcast. 642 00:34:33,440 --> 00:34:36,040 Speaker 3: Here well, thanks for taking the time. I've enjoyed it 643 00:34:36,040 --> 00:34:38,960 Speaker 3: and bless your heart. And anyway, if I'm anywhere near 644 00:34:38,960 --> 00:34:41,160 Speaker 3: where you are, let me know, and maybe my guest 645 00:34:41,200 --> 00:34:43,400 Speaker 3: I'd love to see in person. Thank you for taking 646 00:34:43,400 --> 00:34:44,400 Speaker 3: the time, my brother. 647 00:34:45,800 --> 00:34:48,279 Speaker 2: I'm Buzznight and thanks for listening to the Taking a 648 00:34:48,320 --> 00:34:53,200 Speaker 2: Walk podcast. Now, please check out our companion podcasts produced 649 00:34:53,200 --> 00:34:57,280 Speaker 2: by Buzznight Media Productions with your host Lynn Hoffman. Music 650 00:34:57,400 --> 00:35:00,719 Speaker 2: Save Me showcasing the healing power of me music and 651 00:35:00,840 --> 00:35:04,600 Speaker 2: comedy Save Me shining a light on how laughter is 652 00:35:04,640 --> 00:35:09,439 Speaker 2: the best medicine. All shows are available on Apple Podcasts, 653 00:35:09,680 --> 00:35:13,640 Speaker 2: Spotify and are part of the iHeart podcast Network.