WEBVTT - Bonus: Melissa Gilbert goes 'Back to the Prairie' 0:00:03.480 --> 0:00:06.320 Hey all, you cool cats and kittens. It's Katie Curic 0:00:06.559 --> 0:00:10.560 and this is a bonus episode of Next Question. You 0:00:10.680 --> 0:00:14.280 probably know Melissa Gilbert best from her time playing Laura 0:00:14.440 --> 0:00:18.840 Ingalls for nine seasons on the classic NBC show Little 0:00:18.880 --> 0:00:22.439 House on the Prairie. What are you doing up there? 0:00:23.160 --> 0:00:27.360 What does it look like I'm doing? Uh huh. You'll 0:00:27.400 --> 0:00:29.600 come down here this minute and get yourself off your school. 0:00:29.640 --> 0:00:34.840 You can, Laura, I'm coming, I'm coming. Well. Melissa has 0:00:34.960 --> 0:00:38.920 done a lot since then. She's continued to act, tried 0:00:38.920 --> 0:00:41.680 her hand at directing, served as the president of the 0:00:41.720 --> 0:00:46.000 Screen Actors Guilled, and even briefly ran for Congress. But 0:00:46.080 --> 0:00:49.080 in recent years she made a decision to start a 0:00:49.120 --> 0:00:52.960 new phase of her life far away from Hollywood. She 0:00:53.120 --> 0:00:55.440 left her native l A to live with her husband, 0:00:55.760 --> 0:00:59.760 the actor and director Timothy Busfield, in rural Michigan, and 0:01:00.000 --> 0:01:03.280 eventually ended up settling in a rustic fix her upper 0:01:03.360 --> 0:01:07.160 cottage in the Catskill Mountains. It was a pretty radical 0:01:07.200 --> 0:01:10.760 lifestyle change for Melissa, and it sparked a number of 0:01:10.880 --> 0:01:14.559 realizations about her old life and the way she wants 0:01:14.600 --> 0:01:17.880 to live now. She writes all about it in her 0:01:17.920 --> 0:01:20.959 new book Back to the prairie. We had a really 0:01:20.959 --> 0:01:24.280 fun conversation about everything from her decision to lose the 0:01:24.319 --> 0:01:28.200 botox to how she found love later in life. I 0:01:28.240 --> 0:01:30.800 hope you'll enjoy our chat as much as I did. 0:01:33.600 --> 0:01:37.080 So you are keeping busy, you are still writing, You're 0:01:37.120 --> 0:01:40.360 still doing a ton of things. But we're here to 0:01:40.400 --> 0:01:44.200 talk about your book, and I know this one, this 0:01:44.280 --> 0:01:47.680 is not your first, but it concentrates on the last 0:01:47.800 --> 0:01:50.680 dozen years of your life. But first I just want 0:01:50.720 --> 0:01:53.800 to catch people up on some of the things that 0:01:53.880 --> 0:01:59.400 happened earlier in your life, Melissa. Because you were adopted, 0:01:59.560 --> 0:02:03.559 you have such a fascinating life. You've lived such an 0:02:03.600 --> 0:02:06.800 interesting life. You were adopted the day after you're born. 0:02:08.120 --> 0:02:11.160 Your dad was an actor and comedian. Your mom was 0:02:11.200 --> 0:02:16.200 a dancer and actress, was becoming a performer, getting into 0:02:16.240 --> 0:02:19.960 show biz. As they say, kind of a foregone conclusion 0:02:20.040 --> 0:02:25.799 given your background. I think so. I think that my 0:02:25.960 --> 0:02:30.840 family was probably really lucky to have adopted someone with 0:02:30.919 --> 0:02:34.080 the blood line of a Carney. Also, I mean I 0:02:34.160 --> 0:02:36.760 was sort of born I was born with jazz hands, 0:02:37.400 --> 0:02:40.120 so it was in me, and then it was nurse 0:02:40.200 --> 0:02:44.440 purtured even more by this family of incredible entertainers. I 0:02:44.440 --> 0:02:48.840 mean going back to my father in his youth started 0:02:48.840 --> 0:02:51.040 out as an acrobat in the circus as a child 0:02:51.560 --> 0:02:55.480 with Ringling brothers. So that's really how the evolution started. 0:02:55.560 --> 0:02:58.560 So I like to think I landed in exactly the 0:02:58.680 --> 0:03:01.760 right place. I only think that there's something to be 0:03:01.840 --> 0:03:04.800 said for show business being in your blood. I just 0:03:04.919 --> 0:03:09.040 interviewed Jennifer Gray about her book and her grandfather, Joel 0:03:09.120 --> 0:03:12.400 Gray's father was also an entertainer. He was like a 0:03:12.400 --> 0:03:17.520 borsch belt comedian, and um, you know, there is something 0:03:17.560 --> 0:03:21.680 about growing up in that environment, isn't there that just 0:03:21.840 --> 0:03:28.799 infuses you with this god a dance feeling. Right. Yes, 0:03:28.919 --> 0:03:31.679 And in my family, it's also multi generational too. It's 0:03:31.720 --> 0:03:34.360 not just my father and my mother and me my 0:03:34.600 --> 0:03:38.160 father's parents. My father's father was an Irish vaudevillian and 0:03:38.240 --> 0:03:43.560 his mother was a French aerialist, and my mother's mother 0:03:43.840 --> 0:03:46.800 was a beauty queen, and my mother's father was a 0:03:46.800 --> 0:03:49.200 comedy writer, started out as a stand up comic and 0:03:49.560 --> 0:03:54.200 created The Honeymooners. So it's definitely something that was just 0:03:54.280 --> 0:03:56.760 a given. I mean, when I as a teenager announced 0:03:56.800 --> 0:03:58.840 to the family that I wanted to go to medical school, 0:03:58.880 --> 0:04:03.520 everybody went, what a doctor? Can't you just play one 0:04:03.520 --> 0:04:08.480 on television? It's kind of the opposite what a normal 0:04:08.520 --> 0:04:13.520 family would say. Sometimes so a showbiz household. Not always, 0:04:13.600 --> 0:04:16.800 but sometimes it comes with a bit of chaos. You 0:04:16.920 --> 0:04:20.240 write about your mom being married several times, your dad 0:04:20.320 --> 0:04:25.400 was married a believe it or not thirteen times, and 0:04:25.440 --> 0:04:30.440 you have to wonder how that UH informed your view 0:04:31.040 --> 0:04:36.799 of marriage, relationships, et cetera. How did it. I don't 0:04:36.920 --> 0:04:39.520 know that I was very good at relationships for a 0:04:39.560 --> 0:04:44.520 really long time. I think, um, I think that well clearly, 0:04:44.680 --> 0:04:48.440 having been married and divorced, or being divorced twice and 0:04:48.480 --> 0:04:51.479 now married for a third time, same goodness, I'm in 0:04:51.520 --> 0:04:55.520 a much better place now after you know, years of growth, 0:04:55.600 --> 0:04:58.760 years of walking through these horrible things, decades of therapy 0:04:59.400 --> 0:05:02.480 of five ending a way to live a really comfortable 0:05:02.520 --> 0:05:05.720 and peaceful life. But it wasn't always that way. And 0:05:06.720 --> 0:05:11.080 I don't necessarily know that I chose. I know that 0:05:11.120 --> 0:05:14.600 I didn't choose easy relationships or people that I knew 0:05:14.600 --> 0:05:17.440 I would have easy relationships. I definitely chose the more 0:05:17.560 --> 0:05:24.800 challenging uh fellas, and it ended up being a lot 0:05:24.839 --> 0:05:26.720 to deal with and I finally reached a point, you know, 0:05:26.720 --> 0:05:29.080 in my my later years in my late forties, where 0:05:29.080 --> 0:05:32.120 I went, what am I doing? I'm I'm sort of 0:05:32.160 --> 0:05:36.560 bending myself into being someone I'm not for, someone who 0:05:36.600 --> 0:05:39.800 I don't necessarily know that I really should be with. 0:05:40.440 --> 0:05:44.120 And it was It's a hard it's a hard realization, 0:05:44.200 --> 0:05:46.680 but it's a really important one because going into my 0:05:46.720 --> 0:05:49.680 marriage with Tim, more than knowing what I do want, 0:05:49.800 --> 0:05:52.120 I know what I don't want, and that's a really 0:05:52.200 --> 0:06:07.400 big deal. More with Melissa Gilbert right after this, in 0:06:07.440 --> 0:06:12.040 your book, you talk very honestly about the mistakes you've 0:06:12.080 --> 0:06:15.520 made or the marriages that didn't work, and you were 0:06:15.560 --> 0:06:19.600 particularly candid about your second marriage to Bruce brockx Lightner, 0:06:20.080 --> 0:06:25.440 who I remember when Uh he was television star. He 0:06:25.480 --> 0:06:27.960 hasn't done that much lately as far as I know, 0:06:28.080 --> 0:06:31.120 but I could be wrong about that. Is that, Um, 0:06:31.480 --> 0:06:35.080 I think he's he has a series on on on 0:06:35.320 --> 0:06:38.560 I think it's on the Lifetime Palmar channel, one of 0:06:38.640 --> 0:06:41.679 the two. But he's he's one of those constantly working actors, 0:06:41.680 --> 0:06:45.240 which is great. Yeah, And but you you write about him, 0:06:45.360 --> 0:06:49.760 and you go into great detail about sort of this 0:06:49.920 --> 0:06:53.840 aha moment you had. I think many relationships have that 0:06:54.000 --> 0:06:58.599 moment when something clicks or snaps, and it was when 0:06:58.760 --> 0:07:04.960 you had surgery and and back surgery specifically, and he 0:07:05.120 --> 0:07:08.679 suggested that you take a car home that he couldn't 0:07:08.680 --> 0:07:13.120 pick you up from the hospital. And what what clicked 0:07:13.160 --> 0:07:17.720 for you when that happened, You know it is I 0:07:17.760 --> 0:07:22.320 was very accustomed through that entire relationship to taking care 0:07:22.360 --> 0:07:24.560 of everyone, and and and and I've done this my 0:07:24.600 --> 0:07:27.880 whole life before this, but it really it multiplied during 0:07:27.920 --> 0:07:30.680 that marriage to taking care of everyone to the detriment 0:07:30.680 --> 0:07:33.120 of myself. Like if everyone got sick and I got 0:07:33.160 --> 0:07:35.920 sick and I climbed into bed, he gets sick, and 0:07:35.920 --> 0:07:37.240 then I'd have to get out of bed to make 0:07:37.240 --> 0:07:39.840 sure he was taken care of or whatever was going on. 0:07:39.880 --> 0:07:42.880 It just I it was just an autopilot thing for me. 0:07:42.960 --> 0:07:45.080 And it's something I also did, you know, being a 0:07:45.120 --> 0:07:47.800 working child actor too. There's no time to be sick, 0:07:47.800 --> 0:07:49.960 there's no time to have broken bones. I worked through 0:07:49.960 --> 0:07:51.680 all that stuff as a kid, so I was very 0:07:51.720 --> 0:07:54.840 good at the show must go on, therefore, life must 0:07:54.840 --> 0:07:59.800 go on. And after I broke my back and had 0:08:00.040 --> 0:08:02.440 urgery to repair it and was ready to go home, 0:08:02.520 --> 0:08:04.520 was being released. I was being released from the hospital 0:08:04.600 --> 0:08:07.400 and going home to home nurses with a walker and 0:08:07.440 --> 0:08:09.600 all the stuff that I needed. And I called him 0:08:09.640 --> 0:08:11.760 and he said he didn't want to drive all the 0:08:11.760 --> 0:08:14.000 way to the hospital, that he just wanted me to 0:08:14.120 --> 0:08:16.880 call a friend or take a car. I hung up 0:08:16.880 --> 0:08:20.680 the phone and I went, I mean I literally was 0:08:20.760 --> 0:08:23.120 like it was like a lightning bolt. I went that 0:08:23.240 --> 0:08:27.000 that's that's actually wrong. It's not and why is it? 0:08:27.520 --> 0:08:30.880 Why am I in this position right now? What is 0:08:30.920 --> 0:08:34.280 it about me that allowed me to be in a 0:08:34.320 --> 0:08:37.199 marriage where it's given that that I would just say, okay, 0:08:37.440 --> 0:08:40.000 call I'll call a town car to drive me home 0:08:40.160 --> 0:08:43.960 after having my broken back fixed. And I thought, this 0:08:44.040 --> 0:08:48.520 is uh, this is this is this is not what 0:08:48.640 --> 0:08:51.600 marriage is supposed to be. Like I could do this 0:08:51.679 --> 0:08:53.559 on my own. If I didn't have a partner. I 0:08:53.679 --> 0:08:55.400 we would be a given that I would have arranged 0:08:55.400 --> 0:08:56.880 for someone to pick me up. It would be a 0:08:56.880 --> 0:08:58.720 given that I would arrange to have all these people 0:08:58.760 --> 0:09:00.599 take care of me. It would be a given that 0:09:00.640 --> 0:09:02.760 I would have arranged to have food dropped off for 0:09:02.800 --> 0:09:05.679 the family and for me um And the fact that 0:09:05.720 --> 0:09:07.480 I had to do that while having a partner led 0:09:07.520 --> 0:09:10.400 me to pause and go, this is this is not 0:09:10.480 --> 0:09:13.319 the partnership I need at this point in my life. 0:09:13.840 --> 0:09:16.040 I can do this on my own, and I'd rather 0:09:16.120 --> 0:09:17.880 just do it on my own and know that I'm 0:09:17.880 --> 0:09:22.080 relying on myself entirely. And that was sort of the 0:09:22.120 --> 0:09:25.839 beginning of of the end. And the more time went on, 0:09:26.880 --> 0:09:29.760 the more I realized how far apart we really were 0:09:29.800 --> 0:09:32.720 and what we either of us wanted in a marriage 0:09:32.760 --> 0:09:36.240 and in life. And that was sort of the real 0:09:36.760 --> 0:09:39.560 If you'll forgive the pun straw that broke the camel's back, 0:09:40.760 --> 0:09:44.600 you have a great, meat cute story about Tim in 0:09:44.720 --> 0:09:50.600 the book, and how that happened. Tell us that story. Um, 0:09:50.800 --> 0:09:54.559 I was. I was going out with my gay best 0:09:54.600 --> 0:09:58.120 friend and a bunch of his friends. We were going 0:09:58.679 --> 0:10:01.240 uh disco dancing in Los Angeles at the time, I 0:10:01.280 --> 0:10:03.840 was living in Los Angeles. Still. We were going out 0:10:03.840 --> 0:10:06.920 to disco night at a club called oil Can Harry's 0:10:06.960 --> 0:10:10.160 in the San Fernando Valley and the goal was to 0:10:10.320 --> 0:10:12.640 meet up at this one restaurant that had board games. 0:10:12.679 --> 0:10:14.760 We're going to have dinner and play board games and 0:10:14.760 --> 0:10:18.600 then go and the restaurant had closed permanently. So my 0:10:18.640 --> 0:10:21.480 friend Daniel and I were driving around and there was 0:10:21.559 --> 0:10:23.880 this little sort of strip mall that had a bar 0:10:23.960 --> 0:10:25.400 in it that I knew about, and I said, well, 0:10:25.400 --> 0:10:27.720 why don't we go there and just kill some time. 0:10:27.720 --> 0:10:30.720 It's right across the street. Everyone can come there. We 0:10:30.800 --> 0:10:32.679 walked in the place that just opened. There was no 0:10:32.679 --> 0:10:35.520 one there, and as soon as we walked in, my 0:10:35.559 --> 0:10:38.160 friend Danny said, I left my phone at your house, 0:10:38.160 --> 0:10:39.880 which was ten minutes away, and I said, we'll go. 0:10:40.559 --> 0:10:44.199 So now I'm alone in a bar, which never ever 0:10:44.640 --> 0:10:47.800 in in a strip mall, in a strip mall, in 0:10:48.000 --> 0:10:52.199 l a off of bar room, no, sitting there with 0:10:52.240 --> 0:10:57.360 my Cranberry Club soda by myself and I the there's 0:10:57.400 --> 0:11:00.760 a velvet curtain at the door, and the and opens, 0:11:00.800 --> 0:11:03.440 and this guy walks past me in his big sort 0:11:03.480 --> 0:11:05.959 of coat with a baseball cap on, and he has 0:11:06.000 --> 0:11:08.880 a slice of pizza on a paper plate in one 0:11:08.880 --> 0:11:10.640 hand and a backpack and he puts it all down 0:11:10.640 --> 0:11:13.160 and he sits down and he orders a mescal, which 0:11:13.200 --> 0:11:17.040 makes me laugh, and I just mess gal is just 0:11:17.120 --> 0:11:20.719 such a specific thing for someone to drink. And I 0:11:20.840 --> 0:11:22.760 looked and I saw his profile and I thought, oh 0:11:22.800 --> 0:11:25.920 my gosh, that's Tim Busfield. And we had just become 0:11:25.960 --> 0:11:31.080 friends on Facebook, um, which is sort of random. And 0:11:31.640 --> 0:11:34.000 I've met him a couple of times before, but I 0:11:34.120 --> 0:11:36.760 never really had any long conversations. And you have to know, 0:11:36.840 --> 0:11:40.400 I'm really shy. I don't tend to go up to people, 0:11:40.840 --> 0:11:43.520 even if I've known them for years or worked with 0:11:43.600 --> 0:11:46.160 them years and years ago. I'm always afraid someone's going 0:11:46.200 --> 0:11:47.880 to not know who I am, and just kind of, 0:11:48.840 --> 0:11:51.160 you know, I just don't want to do it. And 0:11:51.240 --> 0:11:55.280 I somehow screwed up the courage to say, hey, Tim, 0:11:55.280 --> 0:11:57.000 and he turned and he looked at me, and I said, 0:11:57.240 --> 0:12:00.160 Melissa Gilbert and he went, oh, and I said, we 0:12:00.240 --> 0:12:03.760 just became friends on Facebook. So we stayed way apart 0:12:03.800 --> 0:12:06.200 from each other in this bar, like five stools apart, 0:12:06.360 --> 0:12:10.320 talking and then he moved one closer, and then I 0:12:10.440 --> 0:12:13.280 moved one closer than that continued till we were side 0:12:13.280 --> 0:12:15.840 by side, and I think, I don't know, we must 0:12:15.840 --> 0:12:18.880 have been talking for hours, because they turned around and 0:12:18.960 --> 0:12:21.400 my friend Danny was there and all of his friends 0:12:21.520 --> 0:12:24.000 had been standing there for at least two hours watching 0:12:24.040 --> 0:12:26.720 this whole thing. And I didn't even know that they 0:12:26.760 --> 0:12:30.360 were there, and it was time to go, and UM, 0:12:31.320 --> 0:12:34.040 and I kept looking at them, going what am I doing? 0:12:34.120 --> 0:12:36.800 I've lost my mind? And they're you know, begging me 0:12:36.920 --> 0:12:41.040 on and Tim decided to leave, and he got up 0:12:41.080 --> 0:12:43.040 to go and had his way out. He grabbed my 0:12:43.120 --> 0:12:46.079 ear lobe and we had exchanged phone numbers. He said, 0:12:46.120 --> 0:12:48.320 I'm going to go, and I looked and I said, yes, 0:12:48.440 --> 0:12:51.800 good idea, quit while you're ahead. And he left. He 0:12:51.880 --> 0:12:56.760 grabbed your earlobe. We're not grabbed, I mean like gently 0:12:56.800 --> 0:13:02.160 grabbed your earlobe. He fondled my earlobe. Sounds so gross. 0:13:02.240 --> 0:13:06.640 He tugged my earlobe. There you go, gently tug Yeah, 0:13:06.800 --> 0:13:09.839 kind of like Carol Burnett, Yes, exactly. It was kind 0:13:09.840 --> 0:13:14.560 of just a little like tickle and UM. The next 0:13:14.720 --> 0:13:18.439 morning or late morning, because I went out late dancing 0:13:18.440 --> 0:13:21.320 with my friends. Um, the next morning, I texted him 0:13:21.520 --> 0:13:23.440 do you want to meet for brunch? Right as he 0:13:23.480 --> 0:13:25.360 was texting me saying do you want to meet for brunch? 0:13:26.000 --> 0:13:28.680 So we met for brunch, and I don't think we've 0:13:28.720 --> 0:13:31.920 been apart more than I think the longest we've been 0:13:31.920 --> 0:13:36.240 a part of five days since then, in ten years 0:13:36.840 --> 0:13:41.040 and it sounds like you're really happy. I am. I am. 0:13:41.120 --> 0:13:44.600 It's I had a friend many many years ago, when 0:13:44.640 --> 0:13:48.640 I was going through relationship agony in my twenties, who said, 0:13:48.679 --> 0:13:52.120 you know, there's there's easier relationships out there. And I 0:13:52.240 --> 0:13:55.520 never thought i'd be a person that had an easier relationship. 0:13:55.559 --> 0:13:57.959 And I do. And there's not a day that goes 0:13:57.960 --> 0:14:02.320 by that I'm not grateful that. Um. It's that really 0:14:02.400 --> 0:14:05.120 virtually nothing in my life is a struggle anymore. It's 0:14:05.280 --> 0:14:09.800 very peaceful, it's very calm, it's very soothing, um And 0:14:09.800 --> 0:14:14.680 and most importantly, it's a partnership. We consult each other 0:14:14.840 --> 0:14:18.240 about everything, We share everything, and all major decisions are 0:14:18.280 --> 0:14:23.120 made together with equal um are both opinions are equally 0:14:23.200 --> 0:14:26.720 valued and as important. And that's that's really unusual and 0:14:27.520 --> 0:14:31.680 as such a blessing to have. That's that's good relationship advice. 0:14:31.760 --> 0:14:35.400 I think if the relationship is hard, if it's creating 0:14:36.120 --> 0:14:41.360 what do they call it souris um and a lot 0:14:41.400 --> 0:14:45.600 of unhappiness, you're investing a lot too much time in 0:14:45.680 --> 0:14:48.840 trying to figure out what's wrong. I think that's a 0:14:48.920 --> 0:14:53.440 big flashing sign that it's not right. And I think 0:14:53.560 --> 0:14:58.800 some women, especially try to fix things and they try 0:14:58.920 --> 0:15:03.600 to make it better, and sometimes things just aren't fixable. 0:15:04.080 --> 0:15:09.360 And having an ease that a wonderful partnership and friendship 0:15:09.480 --> 0:15:14.160 can have is so important. And um, that's what I 0:15:14.200 --> 0:15:19.800 have with my husband too, And it's just, um, I 0:15:19.840 --> 0:15:24.520 don't know, it just it just lifts. It's something lifts 0:15:24.560 --> 0:15:28.480 from you when you're not in n And I've been 0:15:28.960 --> 0:15:33.160 in relationships that weren't good, that didn't make me feel 0:15:33.600 --> 0:15:39.280 happy or fulfilled or cared about. And people out there 0:15:39.280 --> 0:15:41.840 listening to this should if they feel like they're in 0:15:41.840 --> 0:15:45.640 a relationship like that that doesn't make them feel good 0:15:46.480 --> 0:15:50.280 or you know, knowing that every relationship takes a modicum 0:15:50.360 --> 0:15:52.880 of work and it's not going to be you know, 0:15:53.000 --> 0:15:59.520 rainbows and unicorns and sunshine all the time. But if 0:15:59.520 --> 0:16:02.120 there's some thing that is just nagging at you and 0:16:02.240 --> 0:16:04.840 if it just doesn't feel right, chances are it's not. 0:16:05.120 --> 0:16:09.440 So I'm really happy that you're happy, you know. Tell 0:16:09.480 --> 0:16:12.480 me why you decided to write this book now, because 0:16:12.560 --> 0:16:17.880 I know in the early pages you say some might 0:16:17.880 --> 0:16:20.480 say this is about a midlife crisis. I call it 0:16:20.520 --> 0:16:24.520 a midlife reassessment of priorities and my realization the real 0:16:24.600 --> 0:16:27.600 satisfaction and meaning for me at fifty six years old 0:16:28.480 --> 0:16:32.240 came from canny tomatoes and cleaning the chicken coop rather 0:16:32.360 --> 0:16:36.080 than implants and hair color and other efforts to stop 0:16:36.120 --> 0:16:41.160 time from marching across my face. UM, tell me about 0:16:41.200 --> 0:16:47.760 that realization, Melissa, And when you decided that that wasn't 0:16:47.920 --> 0:16:53.320 filling your soul and this constant kind of hamster wheel 0:16:53.360 --> 0:16:58.640 of trying to stop the aging process or trying to um, 0:16:58.680 --> 0:17:02.280 you know, fight other time was just not for you. 0:17:04.600 --> 0:17:09.560 I don't think I consciously realized that it wasn't for 0:17:09.600 --> 0:17:12.880 a long time, but it felt wrong. I remember being 0:17:12.920 --> 0:17:15.399 in my forties, and it's sort of being a given 0:17:15.480 --> 0:17:18.320 that now is when we start, you know, nipping and tucking, 0:17:18.400 --> 0:17:20.679 and now is and now in my when I was 0:17:20.680 --> 0:17:24.320 in my forties, we didn't have to do that, um 0:17:24.359 --> 0:17:27.560 because we have fillers and we have botox, and and 0:17:27.680 --> 0:17:29.600 I was living in Los Angeles and it was just 0:17:29.760 --> 0:17:33.119 sort of do regor. It's what we do where in 0:17:33.119 --> 0:17:35.679 this profession, we stay as young as we can for 0:17:35.720 --> 0:17:37.600 as long as we can. Some people take it too 0:17:37.640 --> 0:17:40.080 far and they look different from what they ever looked like. 0:17:40.160 --> 0:17:44.120 But they're the really smart ones go to a doctor 0:17:44.119 --> 0:17:47.960 who keeps them looking exactly the same. All well and good, 0:17:47.960 --> 0:17:50.000 and if that's your choice, that's fine, but there was 0:17:50.040 --> 0:17:53.000 something in me that felt that that was wrong. I 0:17:53.040 --> 0:17:56.720 did it, I followed it. I went through surgeries, I had, 0:17:56.960 --> 0:18:00.240 you know, as I talked about implants, I had you know, 0:18:00.800 --> 0:18:03.919 I did botox, I did fillers, and it started to 0:18:04.000 --> 0:18:06.520 get to the point where I was starting to not 0:18:06.600 --> 0:18:09.920 look like myself. And the penultimate for me was when 0:18:09.960 --> 0:18:13.640 I did Dancing with the Stars. I was at my 0:18:13.880 --> 0:18:17.480 most sort of all about what I look like on 0:18:17.520 --> 0:18:20.280 the outside because that show will also it sort of 0:18:20.320 --> 0:18:23.080 feeds that the spray tan and the glitter and the 0:18:23.080 --> 0:18:25.080 thin and the dancing, and you do have to be 0:18:25.119 --> 0:18:28.200 in shape, and you do get in shape the longer 0:18:28.240 --> 0:18:30.200 you're on the show, because you're dancing. I was dancing 0:18:30.240 --> 0:18:34.320 eight hours a day. It's forty eight years old, which 0:18:34.359 --> 0:18:40.160 is I would not normally to know otherwise, and it just, 0:18:40.440 --> 0:18:43.280 you know, when it, when it was all over, I 0:18:43.320 --> 0:18:47.199 was left thinking, who am This is not me? I 0:18:47.200 --> 0:18:51.280 don't care about this stuff. I don't. And also it's exhausting. 0:18:52.080 --> 0:18:55.640 It is so exhausting fighting something that's inevitable and natural 0:18:55.760 --> 0:19:01.080 and organic. To be someone else's idea of who you 0:19:01.119 --> 0:19:04.479 need to be. It just it rankled me, and I 0:19:04.520 --> 0:19:06.600 remember getting mad at myself and thinking, what are you doing? 0:19:06.640 --> 0:19:10.600 Stop this? Stop this, And I made a decision at 0:19:10.600 --> 0:19:14.200 that point that that's it. I'm not doing this anymore. 0:19:14.280 --> 0:19:17.520 It's too much work. I just want to be me. 0:19:17.720 --> 0:19:19.760 I want to be comfortable in my own skin. I 0:19:19.800 --> 0:19:22.400 want to be happy with who I am. I don't 0:19:22.440 --> 0:19:25.119 want to keep chasing this ideal that other people have 0:19:25.200 --> 0:19:28.080 placed on me that I believed. I don't really believe 0:19:29.000 --> 0:19:31.199 that this, any of this is true. I think that 0:19:31.320 --> 0:19:33.960 there is value in all of us at whatever age 0:19:33.960 --> 0:19:39.000 we're at, and so, you know, gradually, step by step 0:19:39.119 --> 0:19:43.840 it all started to change. The biggest step was permanently 0:19:43.840 --> 0:19:48.960 removing the breast implants, which just had to happen. I 0:19:49.320 --> 0:19:53.480 honestly gay at one point. You know, they don't tell 0:19:53.520 --> 0:19:56.560 you when you get them in that they they have 0:19:56.600 --> 0:19:59.159 a shelf life. You have to get them replaced at 0:19:59.200 --> 0:20:03.400 least everything in years, which makes me to it. Well, 0:20:03.400 --> 0:20:05.359 and then I'm looking at this and I'm thinking down 0:20:05.400 --> 0:20:08.240 the road, I'm eighty five years old. Am I really 0:20:08.240 --> 0:20:11.440 going to go under anesthesia to get new breast implants 0:20:11.480 --> 0:20:16.600 because these have expired. Who does that? So I just thought, no, 0:20:16.680 --> 0:20:19.480 this is no no no, no, no, no no no. 0:20:19.560 --> 0:20:23.679 It seems it seems so counterintuitive to be forcing yourself 0:20:23.720 --> 0:20:26.840 to have more surgeries later in life. So out they came. 0:20:26.880 --> 0:20:30.120 And as soon as that happened, my whole body went, oh, 0:20:30.760 --> 0:20:34.880 thank you. I just I felt better, I felt more 0:20:34.960 --> 0:20:39.080 like myself. I I just it sort of gave me 0:20:39.119 --> 0:20:41.360 that extra push to go, Okay, that's it. Now, I'm 0:20:41.400 --> 0:20:43.920 not going to do anything else in my face. Now 0:20:43.960 --> 0:20:46.120 I'm going to And then I stopped coloring my hair, 0:20:46.840 --> 0:20:50.080 and it just sort of was like a gradual thing. 0:20:50.160 --> 0:20:53.760 And I'm so glad it all happened that way because 0:20:54.160 --> 0:20:59.520 I was, you know, a knitting kind of gray haired ish, 0:20:59.720 --> 0:21:04.280 all most grant or granny when COVID hit and I 0:21:04.320 --> 0:21:07.280 went into lockdown in the cat skills, and if I 0:21:07.359 --> 0:21:10.040 had had to keep maintaining all that stuff, it never 0:21:10.080 --> 0:21:12.520 would have never would have happened. So it was like 0:21:12.600 --> 0:21:16.480 it was almost like I set myself up to be 0:21:16.640 --> 0:21:23.239 ready to have this ultimately simpler, easier life, and and 0:21:23.280 --> 0:21:26.800 it is. I mean, I it's so much easier. Um, 0:21:26.840 --> 0:21:29.800 I don't think about what I look like really that much. 0:21:30.480 --> 0:21:33.760 How can we change the conversation though? You know, I 0:21:33.800 --> 0:21:36.920 think about this and I'm, you know, nine years old 0:21:37.119 --> 0:21:41.760 at your fifty eight, and I'm so I am seven 0:21:41.840 --> 0:21:46.040 years older than you are. And you know, I think 0:21:46.080 --> 0:21:49.280 for people who are in the public eye, it's particularly 0:21:49.320 --> 0:21:55.320 difficult to get older, um, in front of other people. 0:21:55.600 --> 0:21:58.040 And you know, I think about this, and we used 0:21:58.080 --> 0:21:59.920 to cover this when I was at the Today Show 0:22:00.000 --> 0:22:03.320 and I was in my thirties and forties, and it 0:22:03.480 --> 0:22:07.360 just seems like the conversation around aging really never changes 0:22:08.119 --> 0:22:13.760 until people are experiencing getting older. And I just wonder, 0:22:14.200 --> 0:22:17.920 is it possible to change the conversation because you think 0:22:17.920 --> 0:22:21.160 of the word old and it has such a negative 0:22:21.160 --> 0:22:25.399 connotation or older. And I write about this in my book, 0:22:25.440 --> 0:22:28.359 where I might be on an Instagram live or doing 0:22:28.400 --> 0:22:34.960 something and someone will comment, among many other things, wow, 0:22:35.000 --> 0:22:38.440 she looks old, or you know this kind of thing 0:22:38.480 --> 0:22:43.280 where it is it is meant to be insulting, and 0:22:43.359 --> 0:22:47.840 yet it is inevitable, as you said, And I just 0:22:47.960 --> 0:22:53.440 wonder how we can flip a switch somehow or even 0:22:53.480 --> 0:22:59.600 have a gradual, gradually different perception of of what it 0:22:59.680 --> 0:23:03.640 means to get older and to age, and that it's 0:23:03.680 --> 0:23:07.600 not something that we should be full of shame or 0:23:07.800 --> 0:23:11.840 embarrassment or humiliation. But I think that is how the 0:23:11.920 --> 0:23:18.480 culture treats people who have are are over a certain age, 0:23:18.600 --> 0:23:24.040 whether it's forty, fifty, sixty, seventy, whatever it is. And 0:23:24.119 --> 0:23:28.320 I also one of my pet peeves is how people 0:23:28.400 --> 0:23:32.880 infantilize older people Like I used to really hate when 0:23:32.920 --> 0:23:35.920 people would say about my mom or dad when they 0:23:35.920 --> 0:23:39.840 got older, or your parents are so cute, and I 0:23:39.840 --> 0:23:44.840 would be like, honestly, my parents are amazing people. They're 0:23:44.880 --> 0:23:49.600 incredibly smart, They've led these fascinating, interesting lives. They have 0:23:49.680 --> 0:23:53.680 a lot to say. Please don't diminish them. I never 0:23:53.720 --> 0:23:56.760 said this, really, but I thought it. Please don't because 0:23:56.760 --> 0:23:58.960 I don't think people mean it as an insult, but 0:23:59.080 --> 0:24:03.600 please don't diminish them by calling them cute. There's so 0:24:03.680 --> 0:24:06.880 much to unpack in in just what all of what 0:24:06.960 --> 0:24:10.639 you said. Um, it makes me crazy because it's the 0:24:10.840 --> 0:24:16.000 reverse of who we should be. We should be honoring, respecting, 0:24:16.240 --> 0:24:21.199 and going to our elders for advice for leadership. For 0:24:21.800 --> 0:24:24.080 I mean, these are the people who've lived through all 0:24:24.119 --> 0:24:28.160 of this stuff. They know, they know so much more 0:24:28.200 --> 0:24:31.359