1 00:00:03,480 --> 00:00:06,320 Speaker 1: Hey all, you cool cats and kittens. It's Katie Curic 2 00:00:06,559 --> 00:00:10,560 Speaker 1: and this is a bonus episode of Next Question. You 3 00:00:10,680 --> 00:00:14,280 Speaker 1: probably know Melissa Gilbert best from her time playing Laura 4 00:00:14,440 --> 00:00:18,840 Speaker 1: Ingalls for nine seasons on the classic NBC show Little 5 00:00:18,880 --> 00:00:22,439 Speaker 1: House on the Prairie. What are you doing up there? 6 00:00:23,160 --> 00:00:27,360 Speaker 1: What does it look like I'm doing? Uh huh. You'll 7 00:00:27,400 --> 00:00:29,600 Speaker 1: come down here this minute and get yourself off your school. 8 00:00:29,640 --> 00:00:34,840 Speaker 1: You can, Laura, I'm coming, I'm coming. Well. Melissa has 9 00:00:34,960 --> 00:00:38,920 Speaker 1: done a lot since then. She's continued to act, tried 10 00:00:38,920 --> 00:00:41,680 Speaker 1: her hand at directing, served as the president of the 11 00:00:41,720 --> 00:00:46,000 Speaker 1: Screen Actors Guilled, and even briefly ran for Congress. But 12 00:00:46,080 --> 00:00:49,080 Speaker 1: in recent years she made a decision to start a 13 00:00:49,120 --> 00:00:52,960 Speaker 1: new phase of her life far away from Hollywood. She 14 00:00:53,120 --> 00:00:55,440 Speaker 1: left her native l A to live with her husband, 15 00:00:55,760 --> 00:00:59,760 Speaker 1: the actor and director Timothy Busfield, in rural Michigan, and 16 00:01:00,000 --> 00:01:03,280 Speaker 1: eventually ended up settling in a rustic fix her upper 17 00:01:03,360 --> 00:01:07,160 Speaker 1: cottage in the Catskill Mountains. It was a pretty radical 18 00:01:07,200 --> 00:01:10,760 Speaker 1: lifestyle change for Melissa, and it sparked a number of 19 00:01:10,880 --> 00:01:14,559 Speaker 1: realizations about her old life and the way she wants 20 00:01:14,600 --> 00:01:17,880 Speaker 1: to live now. She writes all about it in her 21 00:01:17,920 --> 00:01:20,959 Speaker 1: new book Back to the prairie. We had a really 22 00:01:20,959 --> 00:01:24,280 Speaker 1: fun conversation about everything from her decision to lose the 23 00:01:24,319 --> 00:01:28,200 Speaker 1: botox to how she found love later in life. I 24 00:01:28,240 --> 00:01:30,800 Speaker 1: hope you'll enjoy our chat as much as I did. 25 00:01:33,600 --> 00:01:37,080 Speaker 1: So you are keeping busy, you are still writing, You're 26 00:01:37,120 --> 00:01:40,360 Speaker 1: still doing a ton of things. But we're here to 27 00:01:40,400 --> 00:01:44,200 Speaker 1: talk about your book, and I know this one, this 28 00:01:44,280 --> 00:01:47,680 Speaker 1: is not your first, but it concentrates on the last 29 00:01:47,800 --> 00:01:50,680 Speaker 1: dozen years of your life. But first I just want 30 00:01:50,720 --> 00:01:53,800 Speaker 1: to catch people up on some of the things that 31 00:01:53,880 --> 00:01:59,400 Speaker 1: happened earlier in your life, Melissa. Because you were adopted, 32 00:01:59,560 --> 00:02:03,559 Speaker 1: you have such a fascinating life. You've lived such an 33 00:02:03,600 --> 00:02:06,800 Speaker 1: interesting life. You were adopted the day after you're born. 34 00:02:08,120 --> 00:02:11,160 Speaker 1: Your dad was an actor and comedian. Your mom was 35 00:02:11,200 --> 00:02:16,200 Speaker 1: a dancer and actress, was becoming a performer, getting into 36 00:02:16,240 --> 00:02:19,960 Speaker 1: show biz. As they say, kind of a foregone conclusion 37 00:02:20,040 --> 00:02:25,799 Speaker 1: given your background. I think so. I think that my 38 00:02:25,960 --> 00:02:30,840 Speaker 1: family was probably really lucky to have adopted someone with 39 00:02:30,919 --> 00:02:34,080 Speaker 1: the blood line of a Carney. Also, I mean I 40 00:02:34,160 --> 00:02:36,760 Speaker 1: was sort of born I was born with jazz hands, 41 00:02:37,400 --> 00:02:40,120 Speaker 1: so it was in me, and then it was nurse 42 00:02:40,200 --> 00:02:44,440 Speaker 1: purtured even more by this family of incredible entertainers. I 43 00:02:44,440 --> 00:02:48,840 Speaker 1: mean going back to my father in his youth started 44 00:02:48,840 --> 00:02:51,040 Speaker 1: out as an acrobat in the circus as a child 45 00:02:51,560 --> 00:02:55,480 Speaker 1: with Ringling brothers. So that's really how the evolution started. 46 00:02:55,560 --> 00:02:58,560 Speaker 1: So I like to think I landed in exactly the 47 00:02:58,680 --> 00:03:01,760 Speaker 1: right place. I only think that there's something to be 48 00:03:01,840 --> 00:03:04,800 Speaker 1: said for show business being in your blood. I just 49 00:03:04,919 --> 00:03:09,040 Speaker 1: interviewed Jennifer Gray about her book and her grandfather, Joel 50 00:03:09,120 --> 00:03:12,400 Speaker 1: Gray's father was also an entertainer. He was like a 51 00:03:12,400 --> 00:03:17,520 Speaker 1: borsch belt comedian, and um, you know, there is something 52 00:03:17,560 --> 00:03:21,680 Speaker 1: about growing up in that environment, isn't there that just 53 00:03:21,840 --> 00:03:28,799 Speaker 1: infuses you with this god a dance feeling. Right. Yes, 54 00:03:28,919 --> 00:03:31,679 Speaker 1: And in my family, it's also multi generational too. It's 55 00:03:31,720 --> 00:03:34,360 Speaker 1: not just my father and my mother and me my 56 00:03:34,600 --> 00:03:38,160 Speaker 1: father's parents. My father's father was an Irish vaudevillian and 57 00:03:38,240 --> 00:03:43,560 Speaker 1: his mother was a French aerialist, and my mother's mother 58 00:03:43,840 --> 00:03:46,800 Speaker 1: was a beauty queen, and my mother's father was a 59 00:03:46,800 --> 00:03:49,200 Speaker 1: comedy writer, started out as a stand up comic and 60 00:03:49,560 --> 00:03:54,200 Speaker 1: created The Honeymooners. So it's definitely something that was just 61 00:03:54,280 --> 00:03:56,760 Speaker 1: a given. I mean, when I as a teenager announced 62 00:03:56,800 --> 00:03:58,840 Speaker 1: to the family that I wanted to go to medical school, 63 00:03:58,880 --> 00:04:03,520 Speaker 1: everybody went, what a doctor? Can't you just play one 64 00:04:03,520 --> 00:04:08,480 Speaker 1: on television? It's kind of the opposite what a normal 65 00:04:08,520 --> 00:04:13,520 Speaker 1: family would say. Sometimes so a showbiz household. Not always, 66 00:04:13,600 --> 00:04:16,800 Speaker 1: but sometimes it comes with a bit of chaos. You 67 00:04:16,920 --> 00:04:20,240 Speaker 1: write about your mom being married several times, your dad 68 00:04:20,320 --> 00:04:25,400 Speaker 1: was married a believe it or not thirteen times, and 69 00:04:25,440 --> 00:04:30,440 Speaker 1: you have to wonder how that UH informed your view 70 00:04:31,040 --> 00:04:36,799 Speaker 1: of marriage, relationships, et cetera. How did it. I don't 71 00:04:36,920 --> 00:04:39,520 Speaker 1: know that I was very good at relationships for a 72 00:04:39,560 --> 00:04:44,520 Speaker 1: really long time. I think, um, I think that well clearly, 73 00:04:44,680 --> 00:04:48,440 Speaker 1: having been married and divorced, or being divorced twice and 74 00:04:48,480 --> 00:04:51,479 Speaker 1: now married for a third time, same goodness, I'm in 75 00:04:51,520 --> 00:04:55,520 Speaker 1: a much better place now after you know, years of growth, 76 00:04:55,600 --> 00:04:58,760 Speaker 1: years of walking through these horrible things, decades of therapy 77 00:04:59,400 --> 00:05:02,480 Speaker 1: of five ending a way to live a really comfortable 78 00:05:02,520 --> 00:05:05,720 Speaker 1: and peaceful life. But it wasn't always that way. And 79 00:05:06,720 --> 00:05:11,080 Speaker 1: I don't necessarily know that I chose. I know that 80 00:05:11,120 --> 00:05:14,600 Speaker 1: I didn't choose easy relationships or people that I knew 81 00:05:14,600 --> 00:05:17,440 Speaker 1: I would have easy relationships. I definitely chose the more 82 00:05:17,560 --> 00:05:24,800 Speaker 1: challenging uh fellas, and it ended up being a lot 83 00:05:24,839 --> 00:05:26,720 Speaker 1: to deal with and I finally reached a point, you know, 84 00:05:26,720 --> 00:05:29,080 Speaker 1: in my my later years in my late forties, where 85 00:05:29,080 --> 00:05:32,120 Speaker 1: I went, what am I doing? I'm I'm sort of 86 00:05:32,160 --> 00:05:36,560 Speaker 1: bending myself into being someone I'm not for, someone who 87 00:05:36,600 --> 00:05:39,800 Speaker 1: I don't necessarily know that I really should be with. 88 00:05:40,440 --> 00:05:44,120 Speaker 1: And it was It's a hard it's a hard realization, 89 00:05:44,200 --> 00:05:46,680 Speaker 1: but it's a really important one because going into my 90 00:05:46,720 --> 00:05:49,680 Speaker 1: marriage with Tim, more than knowing what I do want, 91 00:05:49,800 --> 00:05:52,120 Speaker 1: I know what I don't want, and that's a really 92 00:05:52,200 --> 00:06:07,400 Speaker 1: big deal. More with Melissa Gilbert right after this, in 93 00:06:07,440 --> 00:06:12,040 Speaker 1: your book, you talk very honestly about the mistakes you've 94 00:06:12,080 --> 00:06:15,520 Speaker 1: made or the marriages that didn't work, and you were 95 00:06:15,560 --> 00:06:19,600 Speaker 1: particularly candid about your second marriage to Bruce brockx Lightner, 96 00:06:20,080 --> 00:06:25,440 Speaker 1: who I remember when Uh he was television star. He 97 00:06:25,480 --> 00:06:27,960 Speaker 1: hasn't done that much lately as far as I know, 98 00:06:28,080 --> 00:06:31,120 Speaker 1: but I could be wrong about that. Is that, Um, 99 00:06:31,480 --> 00:06:35,080 Speaker 1: I think he's he has a series on on on 100 00:06:35,320 --> 00:06:38,560 Speaker 1: I think it's on the Lifetime Palmar channel, one of 101 00:06:38,640 --> 00:06:41,679 Speaker 1: the two. But he's he's one of those constantly working actors, 102 00:06:41,680 --> 00:06:45,240 Speaker 1: which is great. Yeah, And but you you write about him, 103 00:06:45,360 --> 00:06:49,760 Speaker 1: and you go into great detail about sort of this 104 00:06:49,920 --> 00:06:53,840 Speaker 1: aha moment you had. I think many relationships have that 105 00:06:54,000 --> 00:06:58,599 Speaker 1: moment when something clicks or snaps, and it was when 106 00:06:58,760 --> 00:07:04,960 Speaker 1: you had surgery and and back surgery specifically, and he 107 00:07:05,120 --> 00:07:08,679 Speaker 1: suggested that you take a car home that he couldn't 108 00:07:08,680 --> 00:07:13,120 Speaker 1: pick you up from the hospital. And what what clicked 109 00:07:13,160 --> 00:07:17,720 Speaker 1: for you when that happened, You know it is I 110 00:07:17,760 --> 00:07:22,320 Speaker 1: was very accustomed through that entire relationship to taking care 111 00:07:22,360 --> 00:07:24,560 Speaker 1: of everyone, and and and and I've done this my 112 00:07:24,600 --> 00:07:27,880 Speaker 1: whole life before this, but it really it multiplied during 113 00:07:27,920 --> 00:07:30,680 Speaker 1: that marriage to taking care of everyone to the detriment 114 00:07:30,680 --> 00:07:33,120 Speaker 1: of myself. Like if everyone got sick and I got 115 00:07:33,160 --> 00:07:35,920 Speaker 1: sick and I climbed into bed, he gets sick, and 116 00:07:35,920 --> 00:07:37,240 Speaker 1: then I'd have to get out of bed to make 117 00:07:37,240 --> 00:07:39,840 Speaker 1: sure he was taken care of or whatever was going on. 118 00:07:39,880 --> 00:07:42,880 Speaker 1: It just I it was just an autopilot thing for me. 119 00:07:42,960 --> 00:07:45,080 Speaker 1: And it's something I also did, you know, being a 120 00:07:45,120 --> 00:07:47,800 Speaker 1: working child actor too. There's no time to be sick, 121 00:07:47,800 --> 00:07:49,960 Speaker 1: there's no time to have broken bones. I worked through 122 00:07:49,960 --> 00:07:51,680 Speaker 1: all that stuff as a kid, so I was very 123 00:07:51,720 --> 00:07:54,840 Speaker 1: good at the show must go on, therefore, life must 124 00:07:54,840 --> 00:07:59,800 Speaker 1: go on. And after I broke my back and had 125 00:08:00,040 --> 00:08:02,440 Speaker 1: urgery to repair it and was ready to go home, 126 00:08:02,520 --> 00:08:04,520 Speaker 1: was being released. I was being released from the hospital 127 00:08:04,600 --> 00:08:07,400 Speaker 1: and going home to home nurses with a walker and 128 00:08:07,440 --> 00:08:09,600 Speaker 1: all the stuff that I needed. And I called him 129 00:08:09,640 --> 00:08:11,760 Speaker 1: and he said he didn't want to drive all the 130 00:08:11,760 --> 00:08:14,000 Speaker 1: way to the hospital, that he just wanted me to 131 00:08:14,120 --> 00:08:16,880 Speaker 1: call a friend or take a car. I hung up 132 00:08:16,880 --> 00:08:20,680 Speaker 1: the phone and I went, I mean I literally was 133 00:08:20,760 --> 00:08:23,120 Speaker 1: like it was like a lightning bolt. I went that 134 00:08:23,240 --> 00:08:27,000 Speaker 1: that's that's actually wrong. It's not and why is it? 135 00:08:27,520 --> 00:08:30,880 Speaker 1: Why am I in this position right now? What is 136 00:08:30,920 --> 00:08:34,280 Speaker 1: it about me that allowed me to be in a 137 00:08:34,320 --> 00:08:37,199 Speaker 1: marriage where it's given that that I would just say, okay, 138 00:08:37,440 --> 00:08:40,000 Speaker 1: call I'll call a town car to drive me home 139 00:08:40,160 --> 00:08:43,960 Speaker 1: after having my broken back fixed. And I thought, this 140 00:08:44,040 --> 00:08:48,520 Speaker 1: is uh, this is this is this is not what 141 00:08:48,640 --> 00:08:51,600 Speaker 1: marriage is supposed to be. Like I could do this 142 00:08:51,679 --> 00:08:53,559 Speaker 1: on my own. If I didn't have a partner. I 143 00:08:53,679 --> 00:08:55,400 Speaker 1: we would be a given that I would have arranged 144 00:08:55,400 --> 00:08:56,880 Speaker 1: for someone to pick me up. It would be a 145 00:08:56,880 --> 00:08:58,720 Speaker 1: given that I would arrange to have all these people 146 00:08:58,760 --> 00:09:00,599 Speaker 1: take care of me. It would be a given that 147 00:09:00,640 --> 00:09:02,760 Speaker 1: I would have arranged to have food dropped off for 148 00:09:02,800 --> 00:09:05,679 Speaker 1: the family and for me um And the fact that 149 00:09:05,720 --> 00:09:07,480 Speaker 1: I had to do that while having a partner led 150 00:09:07,520 --> 00:09:10,400 Speaker 1: me to pause and go, this is this is not 151 00:09:10,480 --> 00:09:13,319 Speaker 1: the partnership I need at this point in my life. 152 00:09:13,840 --> 00:09:16,040 Speaker 1: I can do this on my own, and I'd rather 153 00:09:16,120 --> 00:09:17,880 Speaker 1: just do it on my own and know that I'm 154 00:09:17,880 --> 00:09:22,080 Speaker 1: relying on myself entirely. And that was sort of the 155 00:09:22,120 --> 00:09:25,839 Speaker 1: beginning of of the end. And the more time went on, 156 00:09:26,880 --> 00:09:29,760 Speaker 1: the more I realized how far apart we really were 157 00:09:29,800 --> 00:09:32,720 Speaker 1: and what we either of us wanted in a marriage 158 00:09:32,760 --> 00:09:36,240 Speaker 1: and in life. And that was sort of the real 159 00:09:36,760 --> 00:09:39,560 Speaker 1: If you'll forgive the pun straw that broke the camel's back, 160 00:09:40,760 --> 00:09:44,600 Speaker 1: you have a great, meat cute story about Tim in 161 00:09:44,720 --> 00:09:50,600 Speaker 1: the book, and how that happened. Tell us that story. Um, 162 00:09:50,800 --> 00:09:54,559 Speaker 1: I was. I was going out with my gay best 163 00:09:54,600 --> 00:09:58,120 Speaker 1: friend and a bunch of his friends. We were going 164 00:09:58,679 --> 00:10:01,240 Speaker 1: uh disco dancing in Los Angeles at the time, I 165 00:10:01,280 --> 00:10:03,840 Speaker 1: was living in Los Angeles. Still. We were going out 166 00:10:03,840 --> 00:10:06,920 Speaker 1: to disco night at a club called oil Can Harry's 167 00:10:06,960 --> 00:10:10,160 Speaker 1: in the San Fernando Valley and the goal was to 168 00:10:10,320 --> 00:10:12,640 Speaker 1: meet up at this one restaurant that had board games. 169 00:10:12,679 --> 00:10:14,760 Speaker 1: We're going to have dinner and play board games and 170 00:10:14,760 --> 00:10:18,600 Speaker 1: then go and the restaurant had closed permanently. So my 171 00:10:18,640 --> 00:10:21,480 Speaker 1: friend Daniel and I were driving around and there was 172 00:10:21,559 --> 00:10:23,880 Speaker 1: this little sort of strip mall that had a bar 173 00:10:23,960 --> 00:10:25,400 Speaker 1: in it that I knew about, and I said, well, 174 00:10:25,400 --> 00:10:27,720 Speaker 1: why don't we go there and just kill some time. 175 00:10:27,720 --> 00:10:30,720 Speaker 1: It's right across the street. Everyone can come there. We 176 00:10:30,800 --> 00:10:32,679 Speaker 1: walked in the place that just opened. There was no 177 00:10:32,679 --> 00:10:35,520 Speaker 1: one there, and as soon as we walked in, my 178 00:10:35,559 --> 00:10:38,160 Speaker 1: friend Danny said, I left my phone at your house, 179 00:10:38,160 --> 00:10:39,880 Speaker 1: which was ten minutes away, and I said, we'll go. 180 00:10:40,559 --> 00:10:44,199 Speaker 1: So now I'm alone in a bar, which never ever 181 00:10:44,640 --> 00:10:47,800 Speaker 1: in in a strip mall, in a strip mall, in 182 00:10:48,000 --> 00:10:52,199 Speaker 1: l a off of bar room, no, sitting there with 183 00:10:52,240 --> 00:10:57,360 Speaker 1: my Cranberry Club soda by myself and I the there's 184 00:10:57,400 --> 00:11:00,760 Speaker 1: a velvet curtain at the door, and the and opens, 185 00:11:00,800 --> 00:11:03,440 Speaker 1: and this guy walks past me in his big sort 186 00:11:03,480 --> 00:11:05,959 Speaker 1: of coat with a baseball cap on, and he has 187 00:11:06,000 --> 00:11:08,880 Speaker 1: a slice of pizza on a paper plate in one 188 00:11:08,880 --> 00:11:10,640 Speaker 1: hand and a backpack and he puts it all down 189 00:11:10,640 --> 00:11:13,160 Speaker 1: and he sits down and he orders a mescal, which 190 00:11:13,200 --> 00:11:17,040 Speaker 1: makes me laugh, and I just mess gal is just 191 00:11:17,120 --> 00:11:20,719 Speaker 1: such a specific thing for someone to drink. And I 192 00:11:20,840 --> 00:11:22,760 Speaker 1: looked and I saw his profile and I thought, oh 193 00:11:22,800 --> 00:11:25,920 Speaker 1: my gosh, that's Tim Busfield. And we had just become 194 00:11:25,960 --> 00:11:31,080 Speaker 1: friends on Facebook, um, which is sort of random. And 195 00:11:31,640 --> 00:11:34,000 Speaker 1: I've met him a couple of times before, but I 196 00:11:34,120 --> 00:11:36,760 Speaker 1: never really had any long conversations. And you have to know, 197 00:11:36,840 --> 00:11:40,400 Speaker 1: I'm really shy. I don't tend to go up to people, 198 00:11:40,840 --> 00:11:43,520 Speaker 1: even if I've known them for years or worked with 199 00:11:43,600 --> 00:11:46,160 Speaker 1: them years and years ago. I'm always afraid someone's going 200 00:11:46,200 --> 00:11:47,880 Speaker 1: to not know who I am, and just kind of, 201 00:11:48,840 --> 00:11:51,160 Speaker 1: you know, I just don't want to do it. And 202 00:11:51,240 --> 00:11:55,280 Speaker 1: I somehow screwed up the courage to say, hey, Tim, 203 00:11:55,280 --> 00:11:57,000 Speaker 1: and he turned and he looked at me, and I said, 204 00:11:57,240 --> 00:12:00,160 Speaker 1: Melissa Gilbert and he went, oh, and I said, we 205 00:12:00,240 --> 00:12:03,760 Speaker 1: just became friends on Facebook. So we stayed way apart 206 00:12:03,800 --> 00:12:06,200 Speaker 1: from each other in this bar, like five stools apart, 207 00:12:06,360 --> 00:12:10,320 Speaker 1: talking and then he moved one closer, and then I 208 00:12:10,440 --> 00:12:13,280 Speaker 1: moved one closer than that continued till we were side 209 00:12:13,280 --> 00:12:15,840 Speaker 1: by side, and I think, I don't know, we must 210 00:12:15,840 --> 00:12:18,880 Speaker 1: have been talking for hours, because they turned around and 211 00:12:18,960 --> 00:12:21,400 Speaker 1: my friend Danny was there and all of his friends 212 00:12:21,520 --> 00:12:24,000 Speaker 1: had been standing there for at least two hours watching 213 00:12:24,040 --> 00:12:26,720 Speaker 1: this whole thing. And I didn't even know that they 214 00:12:26,760 --> 00:12:30,360 Speaker 1: were there, and it was time to go, and UM, 215 00:12:31,320 --> 00:12:34,040 Speaker 1: and I kept looking at them, going what am I doing? 216 00:12:34,120 --> 00:12:36,800 Speaker 1: I've lost my mind? And they're you know, begging me 217 00:12:36,920 --> 00:12:41,040 Speaker 1: on and Tim decided to leave, and he got up 218 00:12:41,080 --> 00:12:43,040 Speaker 1: to go and had his way out. He grabbed my 219 00:12:43,120 --> 00:12:46,079 Speaker 1: ear lobe and we had exchanged phone numbers. He said, 220 00:12:46,120 --> 00:12:48,320 Speaker 1: I'm going to go, and I looked and I said, yes, 221 00:12:48,440 --> 00:12:51,800 Speaker 1: good idea, quit while you're ahead. And he left. He 222 00:12:51,880 --> 00:12:56,760 Speaker 1: grabbed your earlobe. We're not grabbed, I mean like gently 223 00:12:56,800 --> 00:13:02,160 Speaker 1: grabbed your earlobe. He fondled my earlobe. Sounds so gross. 224 00:13:02,240 --> 00:13:06,640 Speaker 1: He tugged my earlobe. There you go, gently tug Yeah, 225 00:13:06,800 --> 00:13:09,839 Speaker 1: kind of like Carol Burnett, Yes, exactly. It was kind 226 00:13:09,840 --> 00:13:14,560 Speaker 1: of just a little like tickle and UM. The next 227 00:13:14,720 --> 00:13:18,439 Speaker 1: morning or late morning, because I went out late dancing 228 00:13:18,440 --> 00:13:21,320 Speaker 1: with my friends. Um, the next morning, I texted him 229 00:13:21,520 --> 00:13:23,440 Speaker 1: do you want to meet for brunch? Right as he 230 00:13:23,480 --> 00:13:25,360 Speaker 1: was texting me saying do you want to meet for brunch? 231 00:13:26,000 --> 00:13:28,680 Speaker 1: So we met for brunch, and I don't think we've 232 00:13:28,720 --> 00:13:31,920 Speaker 1: been apart more than I think the longest we've been 233 00:13:31,920 --> 00:13:36,240 Speaker 1: a part of five days since then, in ten years 234 00:13:36,840 --> 00:13:41,040 Speaker 1: and it sounds like you're really happy. I am. I am. 235 00:13:41,120 --> 00:13:44,600 Speaker 1: It's I had a friend many many years ago, when 236 00:13:44,640 --> 00:13:48,640 Speaker 1: I was going through relationship agony in my twenties, who said, 237 00:13:48,679 --> 00:13:52,120 Speaker 1: you know, there's there's easier relationships out there. And I 238 00:13:52,240 --> 00:13:55,520 Speaker 1: never thought i'd be a person that had an easier relationship. 239 00:13:55,559 --> 00:13:57,959 Speaker 1: And I do. And there's not a day that goes 240 00:13:57,960 --> 00:14:02,320 Speaker 1: by that I'm not grateful that. Um. It's that really 241 00:14:02,400 --> 00:14:05,120 Speaker 1: virtually nothing in my life is a struggle anymore. It's 242 00:14:05,280 --> 00:14:09,800 Speaker 1: very peaceful, it's very calm, it's very soothing, um And 243 00:14:09,800 --> 00:14:14,680 Speaker 1: and most importantly, it's a partnership. We consult each other 244 00:14:14,840 --> 00:14:18,240 Speaker 1: about everything, We share everything, and all major decisions are 245 00:14:18,280 --> 00:14:23,120 Speaker 1: made together with equal um are both opinions are equally 246 00:14:23,200 --> 00:14:26,720 Speaker 1: valued and as important. And that's that's really unusual and 247 00:14:27,520 --> 00:14:31,680 Speaker 1: as such a blessing to have. That's that's good relationship advice. 248 00:14:31,760 --> 00:14:35,400 Speaker 1: I think if the relationship is hard, if it's creating 249 00:14:36,120 --> 00:14:41,360 Speaker 1: what do they call it souris um and a lot 250 00:14:41,400 --> 00:14:45,600 Speaker 1: of unhappiness, you're investing a lot too much time in 251 00:14:45,680 --> 00:14:48,840 Speaker 1: trying to figure out what's wrong. I think that's a 252 00:14:48,920 --> 00:14:53,440 Speaker 1: big flashing sign that it's not right. And I think 253 00:14:53,560 --> 00:14:58,800 Speaker 1: some women, especially try to fix things and they try 254 00:14:58,920 --> 00:15:03,600 Speaker 1: to make it better, and sometimes things just aren't fixable. 255 00:15:04,080 --> 00:15:09,360 Speaker 1: And having an ease that a wonderful partnership and friendship 256 00:15:09,480 --> 00:15:14,160 Speaker 1: can have is so important. And um, that's what I 257 00:15:14,200 --> 00:15:19,800 Speaker 1: have with my husband too, And it's just, um, I 258 00:15:19,840 --> 00:15:24,520 Speaker 1: don't know, it just it just lifts. It's something lifts 259 00:15:24,560 --> 00:15:28,480 Speaker 1: from you when you're not in n And I've been 260 00:15:28,960 --> 00:15:33,160 Speaker 1: in relationships that weren't good, that didn't make me feel 261 00:15:33,600 --> 00:15:39,280 Speaker 1: happy or fulfilled or cared about. And people out there 262 00:15:39,280 --> 00:15:41,840 Speaker 1: listening to this should if they feel like they're in 263 00:15:41,840 --> 00:15:45,640 Speaker 1: a relationship like that that doesn't make them feel good 264 00:15:46,480 --> 00:15:50,280 Speaker 1: or you know, knowing that every relationship takes a modicum 265 00:15:50,360 --> 00:15:52,880 Speaker 1: of work and it's not going to be you know, 266 00:15:53,000 --> 00:15:59,520 Speaker 1: rainbows and unicorns and sunshine all the time. But if 267 00:15:59,520 --> 00:16:02,120 Speaker 1: there's some thing that is just nagging at you and 268 00:16:02,240 --> 00:16:04,840 Speaker 1: if it just doesn't feel right, chances are it's not. 269 00:16:05,120 --> 00:16:09,440 Speaker 1: So I'm really happy that you're happy, you know. Tell 270 00:16:09,480 --> 00:16:12,480 Speaker 1: me why you decided to write this book now, because 271 00:16:12,560 --> 00:16:17,880 Speaker 1: I know in the early pages you say some might 272 00:16:17,880 --> 00:16:20,480 Speaker 1: say this is about a midlife crisis. I call it 273 00:16:20,520 --> 00:16:24,520 Speaker 1: a midlife reassessment of priorities and my realization the real 274 00:16:24,600 --> 00:16:27,600 Speaker 1: satisfaction and meaning for me at fifty six years old 275 00:16:28,480 --> 00:16:32,240 Speaker 1: came from canny tomatoes and cleaning the chicken coop rather 276 00:16:32,360 --> 00:16:36,080 Speaker 1: than implants and hair color and other efforts to stop 277 00:16:36,120 --> 00:16:41,160 Speaker 1: time from marching across my face. UM, tell me about 278 00:16:41,200 --> 00:16:47,760 Speaker 1: that realization, Melissa, And when you decided that that wasn't 279 00:16:47,920 --> 00:16:53,320 Speaker 1: filling your soul and this constant kind of hamster wheel 280 00:16:53,360 --> 00:16:58,640 Speaker 1: of trying to stop the aging process or trying to um, 281 00:16:58,680 --> 00:17:02,280 Speaker 1: you know, fight other time was just not for you. 282 00:17:04,600 --> 00:17:09,560 Speaker 1: I don't think I consciously realized that it wasn't for 283 00:17:09,600 --> 00:17:12,880 Speaker 1: a long time, but it felt wrong. I remember being 284 00:17:12,920 --> 00:17:15,399 Speaker 1: in my forties, and it's sort of being a given 285 00:17:15,480 --> 00:17:18,320 Speaker 1: that now is when we start, you know, nipping and tucking, 286 00:17:18,400 --> 00:17:20,679 Speaker 1: and now is and now in my when I was 287 00:17:20,680 --> 00:17:24,320 Speaker 1: in my forties, we didn't have to do that, um 288 00:17:24,359 --> 00:17:27,560 Speaker 1: because we have fillers and we have botox, and and 289 00:17:27,680 --> 00:17:29,600 Speaker 1: I was living in Los Angeles and it was just 290 00:17:29,760 --> 00:17:33,119 Speaker 1: sort of do regor. It's what we do where in 291 00:17:33,119 --> 00:17:35,679 Speaker 1: this profession, we stay as young as we can for 292 00:17:35,720 --> 00:17:37,600 Speaker 1: as long as we can. Some people take it too 293 00:17:37,640 --> 00:17:40,080 Speaker 1: far and they look different from what they ever looked like. 294 00:17:40,160 --> 00:17:44,120 Speaker 1: But they're the really smart ones go to a doctor 295 00:17:44,119 --> 00:17:47,960 Speaker 1: who keeps them looking exactly the same. All well and good, 296 00:17:47,960 --> 00:17:50,000 Speaker 1: and if that's your choice, that's fine, but there was 297 00:17:50,040 --> 00:17:53,000 Speaker 1: something in me that felt that that was wrong. I 298 00:17:53,040 --> 00:17:56,720 Speaker 1: did it, I followed it. I went through surgeries, I had, 299 00:17:56,960 --> 00:18:00,240 Speaker 1: you know, as I talked about implants, I had you know, 300 00:18:00,800 --> 00:18:03,919 Speaker 1: I did botox, I did fillers, and it started to 301 00:18:04,000 --> 00:18:06,520 Speaker 1: get to the point where I was starting to not 302 00:18:06,600 --> 00:18:09,920 Speaker 1: look like myself. And the penultimate for me was when 303 00:18:09,960 --> 00:18:13,640 Speaker 1: I did Dancing with the Stars. I was at my 304 00:18:13,880 --> 00:18:17,480 Speaker 1: most sort of all about what I look like on 305 00:18:17,520 --> 00:18:20,280 Speaker 1: the outside because that show will also it sort of 306 00:18:20,320 --> 00:18:23,080 Speaker 1: feeds that the spray tan and the glitter and the 307 00:18:23,080 --> 00:18:25,080 Speaker 1: thin and the dancing, and you do have to be 308 00:18:25,119 --> 00:18:28,200 Speaker 1: in shape, and you do get in shape the longer 309 00:18:28,240 --> 00:18:30,200 Speaker 1: you're on the show, because you're dancing. I was dancing 310 00:18:30,240 --> 00:18:34,320 Speaker 1: eight hours a day. It's forty eight years old, which 311 00:18:34,359 --> 00:18:40,160 Speaker 1: is I would not normally to know otherwise, and it just, 312 00:18:40,440 --> 00:18:43,280 Speaker 1: you know, when it, when it was all over, I 313 00:18:43,320 --> 00:18:47,199 Speaker 1: was left thinking, who am This is not me? I 314 00:18:47,200 --> 00:18:51,280 Speaker 1: don't care about this stuff. I don't. And also it's exhausting. 315 00:18:52,080 --> 00:18:55,640 Speaker 1: It is so exhausting fighting something that's inevitable and natural 316 00:18:55,760 --> 00:19:01,080 Speaker 1: and organic. To be someone else's idea of who you 317 00:19:01,119 --> 00:19:04,479 Speaker 1: need to be. It just it rankled me, and I 318 00:19:04,520 --> 00:19:06,600 Speaker 1: remember getting mad at myself and thinking, what are you doing? 319 00:19:06,640 --> 00:19:10,600 Speaker 1: Stop this? Stop this, And I made a decision at 320 00:19:10,600 --> 00:19:14,200 Speaker 1: that point that that's it. I'm not doing this anymore. 321 00:19:14,280 --> 00:19:17,520 Speaker 1: It's too much work. I just want to be me. 322 00:19:17,720 --> 00:19:19,760 Speaker 1: I want to be comfortable in my own skin. I 323 00:19:19,800 --> 00:19:22,400 Speaker 1: want to be happy with who I am. I don't 324 00:19:22,440 --> 00:19:25,119 Speaker 1: want to keep chasing this ideal that other people have 325 00:19:25,200 --> 00:19:28,080 Speaker 1: placed on me that I believed. I don't really believe 326 00:19:29,000 --> 00:19:31,199 Speaker 1: that this, any of this is true. I think that 327 00:19:31,320 --> 00:19:33,960 Speaker 1: there is value in all of us at whatever age 328 00:19:33,960 --> 00:19:39,000 Speaker 1: we're at, and so, you know, gradually, step by step 329 00:19:39,119 --> 00:19:43,840 Speaker 1: it all started to change. The biggest step was permanently 330 00:19:43,840 --> 00:19:48,960 Speaker 1: removing the breast implants, which just had to happen. I 331 00:19:49,320 --> 00:19:53,480 Speaker 1: honestly gay at one point. You know, they don't tell 332 00:19:53,520 --> 00:19:56,560 Speaker 1: you when you get them in that they they have 333 00:19:56,600 --> 00:19:59,159 Speaker 1: a shelf life. You have to get them replaced at 334 00:19:59,200 --> 00:20:03,400 Speaker 1: least everything in years, which makes me to it. Well, 335 00:20:03,400 --> 00:20:05,359 Speaker 1: and then I'm looking at this and I'm thinking down 336 00:20:05,400 --> 00:20:08,240 Speaker 1: the road, I'm eighty five years old. Am I really 337 00:20:08,240 --> 00:20:11,440 Speaker 1: going to go under anesthesia to get new breast implants 338 00:20:11,480 --> 00:20:16,600 Speaker 1: because these have expired. Who does that? So I just thought, no, 339 00:20:16,680 --> 00:20:19,480 Speaker 1: this is no no no, no, no, no no no. 340 00:20:19,560 --> 00:20:23,679 Speaker 1: It seems it seems so counterintuitive to be forcing yourself 341 00:20:23,720 --> 00:20:26,840 Speaker 1: to have more surgeries later in life. So out they came. 342 00:20:26,880 --> 00:20:30,120 Speaker 1: And as soon as that happened, my whole body went, oh, 343 00:20:30,760 --> 00:20:34,880 Speaker 1: thank you. I just I felt better, I felt more 344 00:20:34,960 --> 00:20:39,080 Speaker 1: like myself. I I just it sort of gave me 345 00:20:39,119 --> 00:20:41,360 Speaker 1: that extra push to go, Okay, that's it. Now, I'm 346 00:20:41,400 --> 00:20:43,920 Speaker 1: not going to do anything else in my face. Now 347 00:20:43,960 --> 00:20:46,120 Speaker 1: I'm going to And then I stopped coloring my hair, 348 00:20:46,840 --> 00:20:50,080 Speaker 1: and it just sort of was like a gradual thing. 349 00:20:50,160 --> 00:20:53,760 Speaker 1: And I'm so glad it all happened that way because 350 00:20:54,160 --> 00:20:59,520 Speaker 1: I was, you know, a knitting kind of gray haired ish, 351 00:20:59,720 --> 00:21:04,280 Speaker 1: all most grant or granny when COVID hit and I 352 00:21:04,320 --> 00:21:07,280 Speaker 1: went into lockdown in the cat skills, and if I 353 00:21:07,359 --> 00:21:10,040 Speaker 1: had had to keep maintaining all that stuff, it never 354 00:21:10,080 --> 00:21:12,520 Speaker 1: would have never would have happened. So it was like 355 00:21:12,600 --> 00:21:16,480 Speaker 1: it was almost like I set myself up to be 356 00:21:16,640 --> 00:21:23,239 Speaker 1: ready to have this ultimately simpler, easier life, and and 357 00:21:23,280 --> 00:21:26,800 Speaker 1: it is. I mean, I it's so much easier. Um, 358 00:21:26,840 --> 00:21:29,800 Speaker 1: I don't think about what I look like really that much. 359 00:21:30,480 --> 00:21:33,760 Speaker 1: How can we change the conversation though? You know, I 360 00:21:33,800 --> 00:21:36,920 Speaker 1: think about this and I'm, you know, nine years old 361 00:21:37,119 --> 00:21:41,760 Speaker 1: at your fifty eight, and I'm so I am seven 362 00:21:41,840 --> 00:21:46,040 Speaker 1: years older than you are. And you know, I think 363 00:21:46,080 --> 00:21:49,280 Speaker 1: for people who are in the public eye, it's particularly 364 00:21:49,320 --> 00:21:55,320 Speaker 1: difficult to get older, um, in front of other people. 365 00:21:55,600 --> 00:21:58,040 Speaker 1: And you know, I think about this, and we used 366 00:21:58,080 --> 00:21:59,920 Speaker 1: to cover this when I was at the Today Show 367 00:22:00,000 --> 00:22:03,320 Speaker 1: and I was in my thirties and forties, and it 368 00:22:03,480 --> 00:22:07,360 Speaker 1: just seems like the conversation around aging really never changes 369 00:22:08,119 --> 00:22:13,760 Speaker 1: until people are experiencing getting older. And I just wonder, 370 00:22:14,200 --> 00:22:17,920 Speaker 1: is it possible to change the conversation because you think 371 00:22:17,920 --> 00:22:21,160 Speaker 1: of the word old and it has such a negative 372 00:22:21,160 --> 00:22:25,399 Speaker 1: connotation or older. And I write about this in my book, 373 00:22:25,440 --> 00:22:28,359 Speaker 1: where I might be on an Instagram live or doing 374 00:22:28,400 --> 00:22:34,960 Speaker 1: something and someone will comment, among many other things, wow, 375 00:22:35,000 --> 00:22:38,440 Speaker 1: she looks old, or you know this kind of thing 376 00:22:38,480 --> 00:22:43,280 Speaker 1: where it is it is meant to be insulting, and 377 00:22:43,359 --> 00:22:47,840 Speaker 1: yet it is inevitable, as you said, And I just 378 00:22:47,960 --> 00:22:53,440 Speaker 1: wonder how we can flip a switch somehow or even 379 00:22:53,480 --> 00:22:59,600 Speaker 1: have a gradual, gradually different perception of of what it 380 00:22:59,680 --> 00:23:03,640 Speaker 1: means to get older and to age, and that it's 381 00:23:03,680 --> 00:23:07,600 Speaker 1: not something that we should be full of shame or 382 00:23:07,800 --> 00:23:11,840 Speaker 1: embarrassment or humiliation. But I think that is how the 383 00:23:11,920 --> 00:23:18,480 Speaker 1: culture treats people who have are are over a certain age, 384 00:23:18,600 --> 00:23:24,040 Speaker 1: whether it's forty, fifty, sixty, seventy, whatever it is. And 385 00:23:24,119 --> 00:23:28,320 Speaker 1: I also one of my pet peeves is how people 386 00:23:28,400 --> 00:23:32,880 Speaker 1: infantilize older people Like I used to really hate when 387 00:23:32,920 --> 00:23:35,920 Speaker 1: people would say about my mom or dad when they 388 00:23:35,920 --> 00:23:39,840 Speaker 1: got older, or your parents are so cute, and I 389 00:23:39,840 --> 00:23:44,840 Speaker 1: would be like, honestly, my parents are amazing people. They're 390 00:23:44,880 --> 00:23:49,600 Speaker 1: incredibly smart, They've led these fascinating, interesting lives. They have 391 00:23:49,680 --> 00:23:53,680 Speaker 1: a lot to say. Please don't diminish them. I never 392 00:23:53,720 --> 00:23:56,760 Speaker 1: said this, really, but I thought it. Please don't because 393 00:23:56,760 --> 00:23:58,960 Speaker 1: I don't think people mean it as an insult, but 394 00:23:59,080 --> 00:24:03,600 Speaker 1: please don't diminish them by calling them cute. There's so 395 00:24:03,680 --> 00:24:06,880 Speaker 1: much to unpack in in just what all of what 396 00:24:06,960 --> 00:24:10,639 Speaker 1: you said. Um, it makes me crazy because it's the 397 00:24:10,840 --> 00:24:16,000 Speaker 1: reverse of who we should be. We should be honoring, respecting, 398 00:24:16,240 --> 00:24:21,199 Speaker 1: and going to our elders for advice for leadership. For 399 00:24:21,800 --> 00:24:24,080 Speaker 1: I mean, these are the people who've lived through all 400 00:24:24,119 --> 00:24:28,160 Speaker 1: of this stuff. They know, they know so much more 401 00:24:28,200 --> 00:24:31,359 Speaker 1: than we do at this point. So and and and 402 00:24:31,400 --> 00:24:34,600 Speaker 1: there are so many other cultures that revere people for 403 00:24:34,760 --> 00:24:39,440 Speaker 1: their age, that you gain status by aging, and it's 404 00:24:39,480 --> 00:24:44,240 Speaker 1: so frustrating. And then the other side of this what 405 00:24:44,320 --> 00:24:45,919 Speaker 1: popped up for me when you were talking about this 406 00:24:46,119 --> 00:24:50,600 Speaker 1: is the physical part of it. And the pressure to 407 00:24:50,880 --> 00:24:54,640 Speaker 1: look externally a certain way is something that is It's 408 00:24:54,720 --> 00:24:58,080 Speaker 1: so huge. Tim and I do a lot of road trips. 409 00:24:58,480 --> 00:25:01,200 Speaker 1: We have a tendency if one of us goes on location, 410 00:25:01,800 --> 00:25:04,040 Speaker 1: um to just drive. So we have a car, and 411 00:25:04,080 --> 00:25:06,760 Speaker 1: we rent a house and instead of staying in hotels 412 00:25:06,840 --> 00:25:09,800 Speaker 1: and so we drive cross country a lot. And I'll 413 00:25:09,800 --> 00:25:13,600 Speaker 1: tell you that you see a lot of billboards along 414 00:25:13,600 --> 00:25:18,320 Speaker 1: those drives. And the billboards generally are McDonald's, Taco Bell, 415 00:25:18,520 --> 00:25:24,920 Speaker 1: Mico suction, Um, do you want a facelift? Breast implants 416 00:25:25,480 --> 00:25:29,000 Speaker 1: in and out burger just and I look at the stuff, 417 00:25:29,040 --> 00:25:31,440 Speaker 1: and I think, what are we saying to people? Eat this? 418 00:25:32,040 --> 00:25:33,600 Speaker 1: Do all of this and then fix it at the 419 00:25:33,640 --> 00:25:35,879 Speaker 1: surgeon's office, because you don't want to look like you 420 00:25:35,960 --> 00:25:39,720 Speaker 1: eat that stuff. But please do I and and I 421 00:25:40,119 --> 00:25:43,440 Speaker 1: you know I have four sons, and so I never 422 00:25:43,480 --> 00:25:45,800 Speaker 1: really worried about a lot of that the impact of 423 00:25:45,800 --> 00:25:48,400 Speaker 1: that on the boys as much, because it is more 424 00:25:48,400 --> 00:25:51,919 Speaker 1: impactful for for girls and women. But now I have 425 00:25:52,119 --> 00:25:58,200 Speaker 1: daughters in law, and I have granddaughters, and the idea 426 00:25:58,400 --> 00:26:02,920 Speaker 1: that these in readibly perfect human beings, at some point, 427 00:26:02,960 --> 00:26:05,520 Speaker 1: because of societal pressure, will think that they are not 428 00:26:05,640 --> 00:26:10,120 Speaker 1: perfect makes me crazy. And if if if there were 429 00:26:10,119 --> 00:26:12,720 Speaker 1: a solution, I would get behind that in a second. 430 00:26:12,760 --> 00:26:16,920 Speaker 1: But I think it's so endemic and it's so pervasive 431 00:26:17,680 --> 00:26:22,440 Speaker 1: that it's going to require a huge cultural shift for 432 00:26:22,480 --> 00:26:25,560 Speaker 1: people to allow people to be who they are and 433 00:26:25,920 --> 00:26:29,479 Speaker 1: look the way they look and respect them regardless. So 434 00:26:29,640 --> 00:26:31,640 Speaker 1: I don't know how we get there, but I'm I'm 435 00:26:31,680 --> 00:26:33,879 Speaker 1: on board to make it happen if there's anything I 436 00:26:33,920 --> 00:26:36,600 Speaker 1: can do. I do feel like there have been some 437 00:26:36,680 --> 00:26:41,600 Speaker 1: positive changes in that we look at I think, I 438 00:26:41,600 --> 00:26:45,840 Speaker 1: mean there. It needs to change much more, but there 439 00:26:45,840 --> 00:26:49,879 Speaker 1: are some signs that beauty, the definition of beauty is 440 00:26:49,920 --> 00:26:56,359 Speaker 1: becoming more inclusive. That um, you know, more diverse, more 441 00:26:56,920 --> 00:27:00,959 Speaker 1: diversity in terms of race and ethnicity, more diversity in 442 00:27:01,119 --> 00:27:05,639 Speaker 1: terms of bodies, um a little, write a little, But 443 00:27:06,040 --> 00:27:11,000 Speaker 1: I think the overwhelming messaging that young women still receive 444 00:27:11,560 --> 00:27:16,800 Speaker 1: is this is this is your goal, and your external 445 00:27:16,920 --> 00:27:25,200 Speaker 1: packaging is more important than your internal um, your internal character. 446 00:27:25,600 --> 00:27:29,000 Speaker 1: But I do think there's some steps in that direction. Well, 447 00:27:29,600 --> 00:27:32,520 Speaker 1: other let's let's talk about some of the other things 448 00:27:32,560 --> 00:27:37,240 Speaker 1: that what what were you trying to to convey in 449 00:27:37,320 --> 00:27:41,000 Speaker 1: this book, because there are so many facets of you 450 00:27:41,160 --> 00:27:45,680 Speaker 1: as a person. You're politically active, you ran for office 451 00:27:46,000 --> 00:27:48,760 Speaker 1: when you temporary lived in Michigan. You've got to know 452 00:27:49,280 --> 00:27:53,080 Speaker 1: Governor Whitmer. How big a role does activism continue to 453 00:27:53,160 --> 00:27:58,040 Speaker 1: play in your life, Melissa, I can't imagine my life 454 00:27:58,040 --> 00:28:02,480 Speaker 1: without being an active at all. I mean, I I've 455 00:28:03,160 --> 00:28:09,720 Speaker 1: my mother UM raised us with a real sense of 456 00:28:09,880 --> 00:28:13,240 Speaker 1: civic responsibility, and my father too, but my mother really 457 00:28:13,400 --> 00:28:15,520 Speaker 1: was the primary because my father died when I was 458 00:28:15,560 --> 00:28:18,600 Speaker 1: so young. My mother was sort of my mother was 459 00:28:18,640 --> 00:28:21,240 Speaker 1: the center of all of our universes. But she raised 460 00:28:21,280 --> 00:28:24,400 Speaker 1: certainly my sister and I to be very socially conscious 461 00:28:24,440 --> 00:28:28,439 Speaker 1: and aware of injustice. And you know, I remember I 462 00:28:28,480 --> 00:28:32,480 Speaker 1: remember being a teeny, tiny, tiny, maybe five six year 463 00:28:32,560 --> 00:28:37,000 Speaker 1: old girl and having parties every year for UM, the 464 00:28:37,080 --> 00:28:41,120 Speaker 1: local head Start program at our house, and being around 465 00:28:41,280 --> 00:28:42,760 Speaker 1: those kids, and I didn't know what it meant. I 466 00:28:42,800 --> 00:28:44,960 Speaker 1: don't know what head start was four. I just knew 467 00:28:45,000 --> 00:28:47,040 Speaker 1: that all these families and kids would come over at 468 00:28:47,080 --> 00:28:49,080 Speaker 1: Christmas time in Santa Claus would come and I'd get 469 00:28:49,080 --> 00:28:51,920 Speaker 1: to play with everybody. But that's the kind of stuff 470 00:28:51,960 --> 00:28:54,000 Speaker 1: that I learned by us. Most is that this is 471 00:28:54,040 --> 00:28:57,240 Speaker 1: what we do. We give back, we support, we speak out, 472 00:28:57,880 --> 00:29:01,880 Speaker 1: we um We try to become passionate and loving and understanding, 473 00:29:01,920 --> 00:29:04,840 Speaker 1: and when someone is being hurt, we speak out on 474 00:29:04,880 --> 00:29:08,760 Speaker 1: their behalf. And so I've always been that way, and 475 00:29:08,800 --> 00:29:11,960 Speaker 1: I cannot imagine a time when I won't be that way. 476 00:29:12,200 --> 00:29:14,320 Speaker 1: I have reached a point, though, at this age, where 477 00:29:14,360 --> 00:29:18,680 Speaker 1: I feel that my my activism and advocacy is much 478 00:29:18,720 --> 00:29:22,880 Speaker 1: better boots on the ground than in office or setting 479 00:29:23,040 --> 00:29:27,000 Speaker 1: and creating policy. UM. I don't really feel like the 480 00:29:27,120 --> 00:29:32,280 Speaker 1: government works in its current form. I have some real problems. 481 00:29:32,520 --> 00:29:35,160 Speaker 1: My biggest problem is the money in politics. I think 482 00:29:35,200 --> 00:29:38,280 Speaker 1: it is the great corruptor of the political process. It 483 00:29:38,360 --> 00:29:40,800 Speaker 1: takes it out of the hands of of being for 484 00:29:40,840 --> 00:29:43,560 Speaker 1: the people by the people and turns it into being 485 00:29:43,640 --> 00:29:47,920 Speaker 1: for the few by a very few. UM. So that 486 00:29:47,960 --> 00:29:51,080 Speaker 1: will I will always rail against that. But for me, 487 00:29:51,280 --> 00:29:53,880 Speaker 1: in a smaller sense, the little things I can do 488 00:29:53,960 --> 00:29:57,240 Speaker 1: to help people to make sure that they have healthcare 489 00:29:57,800 --> 00:30:01,080 Speaker 1: or access to education, or the freedoms that they deserve, 490 00:30:01,960 --> 00:30:06,440 Speaker 1: or even something as small but as large as making 491 00:30:06,520 --> 00:30:10,080 Speaker 1: sure that there's a pediatric hospice center in every city 492 00:30:10,320 --> 00:30:12,280 Speaker 1: is a big deal to me. And that's something I 493 00:30:12,280 --> 00:30:15,880 Speaker 1: can actually affect. Um, So that's the kind of stuff 494 00:30:16,080 --> 00:30:19,640 Speaker 1: that I will continue to get involved in. Your mom 495 00:30:19,840 --> 00:30:22,920 Speaker 1: kept it from you that your dad uh that a 496 00:30:23,040 --> 00:30:28,680 Speaker 1: stroke and and poor quality care at at a v 497 00:30:28,800 --> 00:30:32,840 Speaker 1: A hospital ultimately drove him to take his own life. 498 00:30:32,880 --> 00:30:35,680 Speaker 1: And yet you didn't discover that until you were forty 499 00:30:35,720 --> 00:30:41,920 Speaker 1: five years old. Um, how did that impact your views 500 00:30:42,040 --> 00:30:48,440 Speaker 1: towards the system in general and how it can be changed? 501 00:30:48,480 --> 00:30:51,160 Speaker 1: Because I know that's an issue that helped you connect 502 00:30:51,640 --> 00:30:55,760 Speaker 1: with Michigan voters when you ran for office. How how 503 00:30:55,800 --> 00:31:01,400 Speaker 1: has that changed your thinking about healthcare and about mental 504 00:31:01,400 --> 00:31:05,920 Speaker 1: health care? Yeah? It really it was. It was incredibly 505 00:31:06,040 --> 00:31:10,920 Speaker 1: impactful for me because, Um, when I found out about 506 00:31:11,040 --> 00:31:14,440 Speaker 1: my father's suicide, I still couldn't get the answers I needed. 507 00:31:14,520 --> 00:31:18,800 Speaker 1: So I went and hired someone to pull records for 508 00:31:18,920 --> 00:31:21,600 Speaker 1: me from from the corner and the l A p D. 509 00:31:21,720 --> 00:31:25,640 Speaker 1: But no photographs, obviously, because I wanted to know the circumstances. 510 00:31:25,640 --> 00:31:27,560 Speaker 1: And as he said, I found out that he had 511 00:31:27,560 --> 00:31:33,200 Speaker 1: been in uncontrolled chronic pain and had been threatening suicide 512 00:31:33,240 --> 00:31:35,160 Speaker 1: and begging for help, and was under the care of 513 00:31:35,160 --> 00:31:37,840 Speaker 1: the VIA in Los Angeles, and nobody did anything. And 514 00:31:37,880 --> 00:31:41,240 Speaker 1: I know that when he died that he only had 515 00:31:41,560 --> 00:31:44,080 Speaker 1: tile and all in his system and a little bit 516 00:31:44,120 --> 00:31:47,360 Speaker 1: of dai Lantin for seizures, but nothing for pain, nothing 517 00:31:47,440 --> 00:31:51,480 Speaker 1: for muscle spasms, nothing, I mean nothing. And this is 518 00:31:51,480 --> 00:31:54,200 Speaker 1: a man who served in World War Two, who was 519 00:31:54,240 --> 00:31:58,080 Speaker 1: with the USO and Vietnam, went every right to the 520 00:31:58,120 --> 00:32:02,560 Speaker 1: best possible care as a veteran who defended the United States, 521 00:32:02,600 --> 00:32:06,840 Speaker 1: and wasn't getting it. And I realized, you know, for many, many, 522 00:32:06,840 --> 00:32:10,200 Speaker 1: many years, especially since Vietnam, we hear about the veterans 523 00:32:10,240 --> 00:32:12,040 Speaker 1: who came home who didn't get the right kind of care, 524 00:32:12,120 --> 00:32:14,840 Speaker 1: and and to hear about the tragedies at VA hospitals, 525 00:32:14,840 --> 00:32:17,120 Speaker 1: and certainly what happened during COVID in the in the 526 00:32:17,760 --> 00:32:22,360 Speaker 1: world of the v a UM and how horrible it is. 527 00:32:22,840 --> 00:32:29,240 Speaker 1: But it did not really have a lot of wait 528 00:32:29,360 --> 00:32:32,719 Speaker 1: for me until I realized my father is that statistic, 529 00:32:33,680 --> 00:32:37,120 Speaker 1: and it made me want to fix it. And that's 530 00:32:37,280 --> 00:32:39,800 Speaker 1: part of that's part of the reason why I ran 531 00:32:39,840 --> 00:32:42,360 Speaker 1: for office too, was the opportunity to do something on 532 00:32:42,440 --> 00:32:48,840 Speaker 1: that large scale, and it enabled me to UM also 533 00:32:49,200 --> 00:32:53,360 Speaker 1: to gain something really valuable in in knowing, not only 534 00:32:53,400 --> 00:32:56,200 Speaker 1: am I not alone in being the survivor of a 535 00:32:56,280 --> 00:32:59,480 Speaker 1: parent who has died by suicide, so I can talk 536 00:32:59,480 --> 00:33:02,480 Speaker 1: to other people, but I'm also not alone in being 537 00:33:02,560 --> 00:33:06,560 Speaker 1: the daughter of a veteran who died by suicide UM. 538 00:33:06,600 --> 00:33:11,080 Speaker 1: And I think it's it's really important for people like 539 00:33:11,160 --> 00:33:15,360 Speaker 1: me and everyone around us UM to continue to talk 540 00:33:15,400 --> 00:33:18,560 Speaker 1: about these things because the more we bring them out 541 00:33:18,680 --> 00:33:21,000 Speaker 1: in the open, the more they can be dealt with, 542 00:33:21,120 --> 00:33:24,720 Speaker 1: and the less stigma there is, the less fear there is. 543 00:33:25,360 --> 00:33:28,760 Speaker 1: And you know, there's nothing I've noticed UM over the 544 00:33:28,800 --> 00:33:31,280 Speaker 1: course of my life. There's there's nothing more powerful than 545 00:33:31,320 --> 00:33:34,920 Speaker 1: finding a community and knowing you're not alone in any experience, 546 00:33:35,280 --> 00:33:38,400 Speaker 1: and we never are the only ones to suffer anything 547 00:33:38,520 --> 00:33:41,760 Speaker 1: or walk through anything. There's always someone who's been there, 548 00:33:42,240 --> 00:33:45,240 Speaker 1: and if we can connect on that level, it makes 549 00:33:45,280 --> 00:33:48,080 Speaker 1: it so much easier to deal with and maybe enables 550 00:33:48,160 --> 00:33:50,560 Speaker 1: us to prevent it from happening to the next person. 551 00:33:52,440 --> 00:34:07,200 Speaker 1: We'll be right back, you know. I think that right 552 00:34:07,240 --> 00:34:11,759 Speaker 1: now people are in sort of I think there's a 553 00:34:11,760 --> 00:34:15,280 Speaker 1: lot of despair in the country right now. I think 554 00:34:15,400 --> 00:34:21,080 Speaker 1: people see things like global warming, and they see things 555 00:34:21,480 --> 00:34:28,040 Speaker 1: like the war in Ukraine and the senseless brutal murders 556 00:34:28,080 --> 00:34:30,759 Speaker 1: that are going on there on a daily basis, to 557 00:34:30,800 --> 00:34:33,600 Speaker 1: the point where I think sometimes people can't watch it 558 00:34:33,640 --> 00:34:38,000 Speaker 1: anymore and don't have the bandwidth to even kind of 559 00:34:38,040 --> 00:34:43,440 Speaker 1: absorb it. Now, reproductive rights are being threatened in this country, 560 00:34:44,920 --> 00:34:50,399 Speaker 1: and I think that that people are feeling lost. And 561 00:34:50,480 --> 00:34:53,520 Speaker 1: while you say a community is really important, it's something 562 00:34:53,560 --> 00:34:57,000 Speaker 1: that we try to foster at the company that my 563 00:34:57,080 --> 00:34:59,719 Speaker 1: husband and I have created, trying to have a community 564 00:34:59,760 --> 00:35:03,000 Speaker 1: of people who care about issues and want to be 565 00:35:03,120 --> 00:35:06,360 Speaker 1: informed and better understand them. I think there are a 566 00:35:06,360 --> 00:35:10,680 Speaker 1: lot of people who are just feeling this sense of hopelessness. 567 00:35:11,320 --> 00:35:17,359 Speaker 1: And I just wonder, from your life experiences and as 568 00:35:17,440 --> 00:35:22,640 Speaker 1: you've kind of are embarking on continue to embark on 569 00:35:22,680 --> 00:35:27,440 Speaker 1: a new chapter almost constantly, what do you think people 570 00:35:27,520 --> 00:35:34,040 Speaker 1: can do to feel more connected and more hopeful and 571 00:35:34,200 --> 00:35:40,359 Speaker 1: more engaged and have a voice in the world we're 572 00:35:40,360 --> 00:35:47,840 Speaker 1: living in. That's that's that's very um, that's very difficult. UM, 573 00:35:47,960 --> 00:35:50,600 Speaker 1: it's a very difficult question to answer because we're coming 574 00:35:50,640 --> 00:35:57,120 Speaker 1: out of this very unprecedented time. Um where Initially, and 575 00:35:57,160 --> 00:36:00,680 Speaker 1: this is my opinion, but initially, you know, had the 576 00:36:00,680 --> 00:36:03,719 Speaker 1: politics of of two thousand sixteen and before that and 577 00:36:03,760 --> 00:36:07,760 Speaker 1: that election that sort of pushed people into their political 578 00:36:07,880 --> 00:36:11,160 Speaker 1: silos a bit and enabled also a lot of people 579 00:36:11,200 --> 00:36:13,840 Speaker 1: to say things they normally wouldn't have. And then we 580 00:36:13,960 --> 00:36:17,560 Speaker 1: have social media and the Internet, which is a fantastic 581 00:36:17,840 --> 00:36:21,960 Speaker 1: tool to have, but it also has enabled us to 582 00:36:22,120 --> 00:36:25,960 Speaker 1: say terrible things too, and about one another without repercussions. 583 00:36:26,040 --> 00:36:28,680 Speaker 1: It's much easier to say a horrible thing about someone 584 00:36:28,760 --> 00:36:32,360 Speaker 1: from your living room on the computer than it is 585 00:36:32,400 --> 00:36:35,880 Speaker 1: when you're standing right next to them. So we really 586 00:36:35,920 --> 00:36:38,960 Speaker 1: started to silo then, and then we had to lock down, 587 00:36:39,080 --> 00:36:42,439 Speaker 1: and we siloed even more. And I know everybody talked 588 00:36:42,480 --> 00:36:44,399 Speaker 1: about how lonely they were and how upset they were, 589 00:36:44,440 --> 00:36:48,520 Speaker 1: and I and I understand, I understand that. But now 590 00:36:48,680 --> 00:36:52,600 Speaker 1: is the lockdowns have lifted and we're starting to integrate more. 591 00:36:52,760 --> 00:36:58,440 Speaker 1: I think it would be great if opinion leaders and 592 00:36:58,600 --> 00:37:02,600 Speaker 1: the leadership of the country and the world. UM. And 593 00:37:02,719 --> 00:37:06,600 Speaker 1: if people with degrees that make them much better at 594 00:37:06,600 --> 00:37:09,680 Speaker 1: this than me would tell us and remind us how 595 00:37:09,719 --> 00:37:13,080 Speaker 1: to be human again towards one another and how to 596 00:37:13,080 --> 00:37:17,040 Speaker 1: to approach each other in a loving, compassionate way. UM. 597 00:37:17,080 --> 00:37:19,640 Speaker 1: I actually said to someone recently, you know, when they 598 00:37:19,640 --> 00:37:26,000 Speaker 1: started lifting mask mandates. UM, I will stop squinting and 599 00:37:26,280 --> 00:37:30,240 Speaker 1: making faces at people who don't wear masks if people 600 00:37:30,280 --> 00:37:32,520 Speaker 1: will not squint and make faces at me if I 601 00:37:32,600 --> 00:37:36,279 Speaker 1: choose to wear a mask, So that's a truce. I mean, 602 00:37:36,280 --> 00:37:38,319 Speaker 1: I'm looking for a truth. And I think that's just 603 00:37:38,400 --> 00:37:42,040 Speaker 1: like a tiny little example of the things we need 604 00:37:42,120 --> 00:37:47,560 Speaker 1: to stop doing, all of us, full stop. UM. And 605 00:37:48,520 --> 00:37:54,000 Speaker 1: I would love to see greater access to UM mental 606 00:37:54,239 --> 00:37:56,799 Speaker 1: mental health care and mental health professionals. I think we 607 00:37:56,840 --> 00:37:59,719 Speaker 1: could all do with someone to talk to it this 608 00:38:00,000 --> 00:38:05,960 Speaker 1: and about how to get back into being a loving, compassionate, kind, 609 00:38:07,040 --> 00:38:11,680 Speaker 1: generous human being again, because you know, it was all 610 00:38:11,719 --> 00:38:14,160 Speaker 1: about survival for a long time, and now it's about 611 00:38:14,160 --> 00:38:17,480 Speaker 1: coming back together. And I think we need we need 612 00:38:17,560 --> 00:38:19,680 Speaker 1: leadership to find our way to do that, and we're 613 00:38:19,719 --> 00:38:23,960 Speaker 1: definitely not getting it from our leaders at all. Really, 614 00:38:24,600 --> 00:38:29,399 Speaker 1: it's still so siloed and and so bitter and and 615 00:38:29,400 --> 00:38:33,479 Speaker 1: and um loud, it's just loud. I can't even watch 616 00:38:33,520 --> 00:38:36,520 Speaker 1: the news anymore. I have to read it. I think, 617 00:38:36,560 --> 00:38:40,080 Speaker 1: for whatever reason, it's almost Pavlovian to be angry and 618 00:38:40,160 --> 00:38:45,320 Speaker 1: to channel that anger into a lack of respect for 619 00:38:45,400 --> 00:38:51,160 Speaker 1: someone with whom we disagree, and um, it is sort 620 00:38:51,160 --> 00:38:55,160 Speaker 1: of our default setting now. And you're right, somehow we 621 00:38:55,280 --> 00:38:57,680 Speaker 1: have to get back into and I think it's I 622 00:38:57,760 --> 00:39:04,680 Speaker 1: think that is um nurtured and encouraged by both political 623 00:39:04,800 --> 00:39:09,040 Speaker 1: leaders in some cases the media, and I just hope 624 00:39:09,080 --> 00:39:13,640 Speaker 1: there is a way we can. You know, we're compromised, 625 00:39:14,120 --> 00:39:18,120 Speaker 1: or appreciation for a different point of view or coming 626 00:39:18,200 --> 00:39:24,399 Speaker 1: up with some kind of common goals isn't seen as 627 00:39:24,480 --> 00:39:29,400 Speaker 1: capitulation or isn't seen as a concept that is just 628 00:39:29,600 --> 00:39:35,640 Speaker 1: anathema two our current culture. If that makes sense, Yeah, 629 00:39:35,640 --> 00:39:38,560 Speaker 1: it does make sense, and it will be the undoing 630 00:39:38,640 --> 00:39:41,680 Speaker 1: of our species if we don't find a way. Well, 631 00:39:41,800 --> 00:39:45,000 Speaker 1: let's let's leave things on a bright note. Shall we 632 00:39:45,360 --> 00:39:48,719 Speaker 1: all learn no money? Something happy? Please? Katie? Well, I 633 00:39:48,800 --> 00:39:51,359 Speaker 1: do have a lot of faith in young people. And 634 00:39:51,440 --> 00:39:55,719 Speaker 1: now you're a grandmother and you're seeing you know, this 635 00:39:55,760 --> 00:40:01,319 Speaker 1: new generation of young people who I think here matt 636 00:40:01,360 --> 00:40:06,240 Speaker 1: as hell a little little disappointed to say the least, 637 00:40:06,880 --> 00:40:10,480 Speaker 1: and what their quote unquote elders have done to address 638 00:40:10,560 --> 00:40:16,399 Speaker 1: some of these burning issues. But they are really um 639 00:40:16,440 --> 00:40:19,799 Speaker 1: trying to change change the country, in the world for 640 00:40:19,880 --> 00:40:25,600 Speaker 1: the better. So I do find that to be uh 641 00:40:25,800 --> 00:40:32,600 Speaker 1: inspiring and comforting, I guess in a way. Have you 642 00:40:32,680 --> 00:40:36,480 Speaker 1: seen that in your own experience? Yes, yes, And that 643 00:40:36,680 --> 00:40:38,560 Speaker 1: is absolutely a source of hope. I see it with 644 00:40:38,640 --> 00:40:42,239 Speaker 1: my kids, and I especially I see it with potentially 645 00:40:42,239 --> 00:40:46,600 Speaker 1: with my grandchildren. We are Our oldest grandchild is seven 646 00:40:46,960 --> 00:40:52,160 Speaker 1: now and she um participated in a climate change march 647 00:40:52,960 --> 00:40:55,440 Speaker 1: not too long ago and made her own sign that 648 00:40:55,520 --> 00:40:59,080 Speaker 1: said I stand with Greta, and she knows who she is, 649 00:40:59,120 --> 00:41:01,040 Speaker 1: and she knows who at A is and what she 650 00:41:01,120 --> 00:41:06,359 Speaker 1: stands for, and she has so much UM respect for 651 00:41:06,400 --> 00:41:08,680 Speaker 1: her and this is who she looks up to at 652 00:41:08,719 --> 00:41:11,239 Speaker 1: the age of seven. So I can't help but be 653 00:41:11,320 --> 00:41:18,359 Speaker 1: hopeful when I see that, UM, and I I am. 654 00:41:18,600 --> 00:41:23,799 Speaker 1: I am completely and hopeful that she's not the only one, 655 00:41:24,239 --> 00:41:28,160 Speaker 1: and that these next generations are going to do what's 656 00:41:28,239 --> 00:41:32,200 Speaker 1: right and and try and fix what we unfortunately are 657 00:41:32,280 --> 00:41:34,600 Speaker 1: are leaving them, which is better than what we were given. 658 00:41:34,640 --> 00:41:37,080 Speaker 1: I think in a lot of ways, um, and in 659 00:41:37,120 --> 00:41:40,520 Speaker 1: a lot of ways not so much so. UM. I 660 00:41:40,600 --> 00:41:45,759 Speaker 1: am hopeful and I'm just, you know, trying to live 661 00:41:45,920 --> 00:41:49,480 Speaker 1: my peaceful little existence up in the Catskills more than 662 00:41:49,520 --> 00:41:51,840 Speaker 1: anywhere else, with my chickens and my garden and my 663 00:41:51,920 --> 00:41:55,160 Speaker 1: husband and my dog and my knitting. And I come 664 00:41:55,239 --> 00:41:57,719 Speaker 1: down and speak my piece when I asked you, and 665 00:41:57,760 --> 00:42:00,560 Speaker 1: then I go back home and sit in my recliner 666 00:42:00,640 --> 00:42:04,239 Speaker 1: and knit. That's that's my life right now. But it 667 00:42:04,280 --> 00:42:08,880 Speaker 1: sounds like it's working for you. It's heaven. It's absolutely heavenly. 668 00:42:09,040 --> 00:42:14,120 Speaker 1: I I I, I don't know that I've ever know 669 00:42:14,560 --> 00:42:17,759 Speaker 1: I've I've never been happier or more content in my life, 670 00:42:17,760 --> 00:42:20,080 Speaker 1: which is interesting with all the things going on in 671 00:42:20,120 --> 00:42:23,920 Speaker 1: the world, and it's sad and heartbroken as I can be. 672 00:42:24,080 --> 00:42:26,560 Speaker 1: When I when I watched the footage coming in from 673 00:42:26,680 --> 00:42:31,000 Speaker 1: Ukraine and I read the stories of people who are 674 00:42:31,040 --> 00:42:33,400 Speaker 1: suffering all over the world, and people who don't have 675 00:42:33,440 --> 00:42:37,480 Speaker 1: access to healthcare and don't have access to uh, the 676 00:42:37,600 --> 00:42:41,319 Speaker 1: right kind of education, and it does those are the 677 00:42:41,360 --> 00:42:43,719 Speaker 1: things that break my heart. But the balance for me 678 00:42:43,880 --> 00:42:48,000 Speaker 1: is that I can go back to my retreat up 679 00:42:48,000 --> 00:42:52,160 Speaker 1: in the mountains and I can gather eggs for my 680 00:42:52,280 --> 00:42:55,640 Speaker 1: chickens and donate them to the local food bank and 681 00:42:55,680 --> 00:42:58,160 Speaker 1: at least do something in a small way to help 682 00:42:58,239 --> 00:43:02,480 Speaker 1: my community. I think that's really the key is trying 683 00:43:02,480 --> 00:43:06,239 Speaker 1: to make if you feel frustrated, try to make your 684 00:43:06,320 --> 00:43:10,799 Speaker 1: world better. And that means your community. And I think 685 00:43:10,800 --> 00:43:15,120 Speaker 1: if people focus on doing more at us at a 686 00:43:15,120 --> 00:43:20,319 Speaker 1: at a more local level. Um, that's that's if if 687 00:43:20,360 --> 00:43:24,680 Speaker 1: everyone did that, then it would have that that would 688 00:43:24,760 --> 00:43:29,160 Speaker 1: echo across the land and and maybe and keep people 689 00:43:29,239 --> 00:43:35,640 Speaker 1: from getting too overwhelmed. Right, Yes, it all you know 690 00:43:35,680 --> 00:43:39,839 Speaker 1: they say charity starts at home. It all starts at home. 691 00:43:40,120 --> 00:43:42,600 Speaker 1: So you start in the smallest circle possible. You don't 692 00:43:42,600 --> 00:43:45,840 Speaker 1: We don't all have to run for Congress or the Senate. Um, 693 00:43:45,880 --> 00:43:47,880 Speaker 1: we don't even have to run for office. Just do 694 00:43:48,000 --> 00:43:51,960 Speaker 1: something for someone on your block, by their groceries, bake 695 00:43:52,040 --> 00:43:55,520 Speaker 1: him up high, sit and listen, take them to a 696 00:43:55,560 --> 00:44:01,080 Speaker 1: doctor's appointment, run their errands. It's so bowl, it really is, 697 00:44:01,360 --> 00:44:06,399 Speaker 1: and it means the world, and we'll change your life. Well, 698 00:44:06,440 --> 00:44:09,040 Speaker 1: that's a good note to end on. Melissa, it's so 699 00:44:09,080 --> 00:44:12,880 Speaker 1: good to see you and your new book is called 700 00:44:12,920 --> 00:44:16,239 Speaker 1: Back to the Prairie. Thank you for spending some time 701 00:44:16,280 --> 00:44:19,480 Speaker 1: talking with us about that. There's so much more in 702 00:44:19,520 --> 00:44:23,200 Speaker 1: the book obviously than the things we touched upon, but 703 00:44:23,280 --> 00:44:27,640 Speaker 1: it's just nice to have a conversation with you. Um, 704 00:44:27,680 --> 00:44:30,799 Speaker 1: you know, someone that we've known for so long and 705 00:44:31,200 --> 00:44:36,880 Speaker 1: we've watched grow and change and uh, you know, ultimately 706 00:44:37,000 --> 00:44:40,880 Speaker 1: become the person you were destined to be. So thank you, Melissa. 707 00:44:41,760 --> 00:44:44,880 Speaker 1: Thanks Katie, that's very very sweet and it's always a 708 00:44:44,920 --> 00:44:47,960 Speaker 1: joy to talk to you. A big thank you to 709 00:44:48,000 --> 00:44:56,719 Speaker 1: my guest Melissa Gilbert. Her book was Katie with you 710 00:44:56,840 --> 00:45:01,120 Speaker 1: and Courtney as long as you supervising so is Lauren Hansen. 711 00:45:01,440 --> 00:45:06,040 Speaker 1: Associate producers Derek Clements and Adriana Fasio. The show is 712 00:45:06,160 --> 00:45:09,960 Speaker 1: edited and mixed by Derrick Clements. For more information about 713 00:45:09,960 --> 00:45:12,880 Speaker 1: today's episode, or to sign up for my morning newsletter, 714 00:45:12,960 --> 00:45:15,799 Speaker 1: wake Up Call, go to Katie correct dot com. You 715 00:45:15,840 --> 00:45:18,480 Speaker 1: can also find me at Katie Currect on Instagram and 716 00:45:18,680 --> 00:45:22,040 Speaker 1: all my social media channels. For more podcasts from I 717 00:45:22,160 --> 00:45:26,000 Speaker 1: Heart Radio, visit the i Heart Radio app, Apple Podcast, 718 00:45:26,360 --> 00:45:28,560 Speaker 1: or wherever you listen to your favorite shows,