1 00:00:02,480 --> 00:00:11,879 Speaker 1: Bloomberg Audio Studios, podcasts, radio news. Yes, anyway, it's a 2 00:00:11,920 --> 00:00:14,200 Speaker 1: typical Polish name, and it's a it's a difficult one, 3 00:00:14,200 --> 00:00:15,720 Speaker 1: and there was no English equivalent. 4 00:00:16,040 --> 00:00:19,800 Speaker 2: My mother speaks like nine languages, so and she was 5 00:00:19,840 --> 00:00:22,439 Speaker 2: a linguist, and she said she found Polish to be 6 00:00:22,520 --> 00:00:25,159 Speaker 2: the hardest. And she even like speaks like some like 7 00:00:25,680 --> 00:00:28,240 Speaker 2: she's learned like some Russian and some Malay, and all. 8 00:00:28,120 --> 00:00:29,800 Speaker 3: This questions supposed to be the hardest, she. 9 00:00:29,800 --> 00:00:33,199 Speaker 2: Said, from a pronunciation standpoint, she found Polish to be 10 00:00:33,240 --> 00:00:39,520 Speaker 2: the hardest. Anyway, I did a dead list. 11 00:00:39,600 --> 00:00:40,360 Speaker 4: I'm both the. 12 00:00:40,400 --> 00:00:44,040 Speaker 3: Most popular trader and most successful trader at Citadel. 13 00:00:44,240 --> 00:00:48,640 Speaker 2: That is going viral barches. This isn't after school special, except. 14 00:00:48,240 --> 00:00:50,800 Speaker 3: I've decided I'm going to base my entire personality going 15 00:00:50,800 --> 00:00:53,760 Speaker 3: forward on campaigning for a strategic pork reserve. 16 00:00:53,520 --> 00:00:54,040 Speaker 4: In the US. 17 00:00:54,280 --> 00:00:54,800 Speaker 1: Black goal. 18 00:00:55,120 --> 00:00:56,560 Speaker 2: These are the important question. 19 00:00:56,680 --> 00:00:58,040 Speaker 3: Is that robots taking over the world? 20 00:00:58,160 --> 00:01:01,280 Speaker 2: No, I see the like a couple of years, the 21 00:01:01,360 --> 00:01:03,560 Speaker 2: AI will do a really good job of making the 22 00:01:03,600 --> 00:01:06,640 Speaker 2: odd lotch podcast. One day that person will have the 23 00:01:06,680 --> 00:01:07,560 Speaker 2: mandate of Heaven. 24 00:01:07,760 --> 00:01:09,919 Speaker 3: How do I get more popular and successful? 25 00:01:10,280 --> 00:01:11,480 Speaker 4: We do have the. 26 00:01:13,520 --> 00:01:15,680 Speaker 2: Welcome to lots more where we catch up with friends 27 00:01:15,720 --> 00:01:16,760 Speaker 2: about what's going. 28 00:01:16,520 --> 00:01:19,480 Speaker 3: On right now, because even when odd Lots is over, 29 00:01:19,840 --> 00:01:21,520 Speaker 3: there's always lots more. 30 00:01:21,920 --> 00:01:24,280 Speaker 2: And we really do have the perfect guest. 31 00:01:27,000 --> 00:01:30,440 Speaker 3: One thing we have learned in all our episodes looking 32 00:01:30,440 --> 00:01:33,680 Speaker 3: at the Iranian stock market, and there have been a couple, yes, 33 00:01:33,800 --> 00:01:36,200 Speaker 3: but one thing we've learned is that Iran is actually 34 00:01:36,520 --> 00:01:41,160 Speaker 3: the thirty seventh biggest economy in the world by nominal GDP. 35 00:01:41,720 --> 00:01:45,839 Speaker 3: Can you guess like another economy that is roughly that size? 36 00:01:46,040 --> 00:01:49,480 Speaker 2: Oh that's a really So what is roughly similar to 37 00:01:49,520 --> 00:01:52,760 Speaker 2: the Iranian I don't know, go on. 38 00:01:52,880 --> 00:01:55,800 Speaker 3: Okay, well one of them is Denmark, so you know 39 00:01:56,040 --> 00:01:58,080 Speaker 3: that's pretty big. But then when you start looking at 40 00:01:58,080 --> 00:02:02,200 Speaker 3: things like geographical size, Iran is I think the seventeenth 41 00:02:02,240 --> 00:02:05,560 Speaker 3: biggest country in the world by geographical size. It has 42 00:02:05,680 --> 00:02:08,080 Speaker 3: a lot of people as well, so you know, similar 43 00:02:08,120 --> 00:02:10,120 Speaker 3: to Turkey in terms of post I know you. 44 00:02:10,080 --> 00:02:13,720 Speaker 2: Know, I know the population now, Oh well yeah, because 45 00:02:13,800 --> 00:02:16,040 Speaker 2: Ted Cruz got stumped on it when he went on 46 00:02:16,120 --> 00:02:18,639 Speaker 2: Tucker Carlson Show. So we all know that Iran has 47 00:02:18,639 --> 00:02:22,560 Speaker 2: a population of around ninety million. No one, no one, yeah, 48 00:02:22,600 --> 00:02:23,920 Speaker 2: he should have. No one is ever going to make 49 00:02:23,919 --> 00:02:24,880 Speaker 2: that mistake again. 50 00:02:25,400 --> 00:02:27,560 Speaker 3: That's right. That should have been my first question. 51 00:02:27,639 --> 00:02:31,280 Speaker 2: Can I say something when there's geopolitical events happening in 52 00:02:31,320 --> 00:02:33,680 Speaker 2: the world on a weekend when nothing is treating so 53 00:02:33,800 --> 00:02:35,600 Speaker 2: one that you can look at what crypto is doing. 54 00:02:35,880 --> 00:02:37,520 Speaker 2: But every once in a while, when I'm in true 55 00:02:37,520 --> 00:02:40,440 Speaker 2: market siico mood, like I'll actually check, like, oh, what 56 00:02:40,600 --> 00:02:43,440 Speaker 2: is the Saudi market doing on a Saturday, or what 57 00:02:43,639 --> 00:02:46,120 Speaker 2: is the tel Aviv market doing on a Sunday? 58 00:02:46,440 --> 00:02:49,120 Speaker 3: There are siico mode that's just being international. 59 00:02:49,280 --> 00:02:52,240 Speaker 2: Well, we're supposed to have the weekends to not be 60 00:02:52,280 --> 00:02:54,720 Speaker 2: looking up, but most of the time they're not. Every 61 00:02:54,919 --> 00:02:56,840 Speaker 2: point is everyone's in a while, like I'm gonna check 62 00:02:56,919 --> 00:02:59,160 Speaker 2: in and see how tel Aviv is trading on a 63 00:02:59,240 --> 00:03:01,920 Speaker 2: Sunday or something like that. That's how that's how you 64 00:03:02,000 --> 00:03:03,000 Speaker 2: know something is happening. 65 00:03:03,080 --> 00:03:05,880 Speaker 3: Yeah, But the one market that you can't really look up, 66 00:03:05,919 --> 00:03:09,440 Speaker 3: that's right is Iran stock market and the Tran Stock 67 00:03:09,480 --> 00:03:12,639 Speaker 3: Exchange specifically, which again, as we know from previous episodes, 68 00:03:12,680 --> 00:03:15,800 Speaker 3: has more than six hundred companies and is worth I 69 00:03:15,800 --> 00:03:18,079 Speaker 3: think it was almost one hundred billion dollars. I don't 70 00:03:18,080 --> 00:03:21,519 Speaker 3: know if it's still that much, but I'm always brilliant. 71 00:03:21,600 --> 00:03:23,760 Speaker 4: Around one hundred and fifty billion dollars one. 72 00:03:23,680 --> 00:03:27,920 Speaker 3: Hundred and fifty Oh wow. Okay, we're speaking with Matya Voutal. 73 00:03:28,120 --> 00:03:31,240 Speaker 3: He is CEO and CIO of Antlon Capital, which is 74 00:03:31,280 --> 00:03:35,520 Speaker 3: an Amsterdam based fund manager which specializes in Iranian stocks. 75 00:03:35,760 --> 00:03:38,080 Speaker 3: He's been on the show a couple of times before, 76 00:03:38,200 --> 00:03:39,880 Speaker 3: and we thought we would talk to him again just 77 00:03:39,920 --> 00:03:42,200 Speaker 3: to try to get a sense of what's going on 78 00:03:42,400 --> 00:03:45,400 Speaker 3: in terms of Iran's economy and it's stock market. 79 00:03:45,560 --> 00:03:47,840 Speaker 1: What is going on if I can just comment on 80 00:03:47,840 --> 00:03:50,160 Speaker 1: one thing, because the way you introduced your own is 81 00:03:50,200 --> 00:03:53,200 Speaker 1: the perfect way to show the country. It's the size 82 00:03:53,200 --> 00:03:57,240 Speaker 1: of Turkey in terms of population and actually geographical size 83 00:03:57,240 --> 00:03:57,720 Speaker 1: as well. 84 00:03:58,240 --> 00:03:58,760 Speaker 4: But if you. 85 00:03:58,760 --> 00:04:03,800 Speaker 1: Compare the economy of an Iran, it's around five times smaller. 86 00:04:03,800 --> 00:04:05,840 Speaker 4: So Iran is around five times smaller. 87 00:04:06,120 --> 00:04:09,000 Speaker 1: And if you look at the composition of the economy, 88 00:04:09,200 --> 00:04:12,440 Speaker 1: Turkey has no natural resources, so they have to import 89 00:04:12,440 --> 00:04:15,800 Speaker 1: the whole energy commodities they consume and so on. Iran 90 00:04:16,240 --> 00:04:20,800 Speaker 1: has the similar size of potential non commodity GDP that 91 00:04:20,880 --> 00:04:22,840 Speaker 1: it could grow to. So from the current let's say 92 00:04:22,880 --> 00:04:26,120 Speaker 1: two hundred and fifty billion to one point one trillion 93 00:04:26,160 --> 00:04:29,400 Speaker 1: GDP that Turkey has, but also on top of this 94 00:04:29,880 --> 00:04:33,560 Speaker 1: has resources that are actually if you combine gas and oil, 95 00:04:33,880 --> 00:04:36,839 Speaker 1: they are bigger than Saudi Arabia's and Saudi Arabia is 96 00:04:36,839 --> 00:04:40,560 Speaker 1: another one point, I think three trillion dollar economy. So 97 00:04:40,640 --> 00:04:43,320 Speaker 1: this is a good way to just frame Iran as 98 00:04:43,360 --> 00:04:45,920 Speaker 1: to show Iran, as you know, it's a big country 99 00:04:46,200 --> 00:04:51,200 Speaker 1: that should really be having much bigger economy. Because of sanctions, 100 00:04:51,360 --> 00:04:53,920 Speaker 1: various reasons and so on, it's been underdeveloped. 101 00:04:53,920 --> 00:04:57,479 Speaker 4: But the scale of this underdevelopment is like ten x wow. 102 00:04:57,600 --> 00:05:00,640 Speaker 3: And because of the sanctions, we can't actually go and 103 00:05:00,839 --> 00:05:04,080 Speaker 3: look up what's happening in Tehran's stock market, So why 104 00:05:04,120 --> 00:05:06,440 Speaker 3: don't you give us an overview of what it's been 105 00:05:06,560 --> 00:05:09,320 Speaker 3: like for the past week given geopolitical events. 106 00:05:10,000 --> 00:05:12,400 Speaker 1: So for the past week, it was difficult for everyone 107 00:05:12,720 --> 00:05:15,360 Speaker 1: to check what was going on in Iran because internet 108 00:05:15,560 --> 00:05:18,760 Speaker 1: was shut down basically, so I could communicate with my 109 00:05:18,839 --> 00:05:21,480 Speaker 1: team on the ground in Tehran once a day when 110 00:05:21,520 --> 00:05:24,440 Speaker 1: they had signal, and sometimes it was what's up that 111 00:05:24,560 --> 00:05:27,360 Speaker 1: was working, sometimes telegram, but it was maybe once or 112 00:05:27,400 --> 00:05:30,360 Speaker 1: twice per day. So what was going on in the 113 00:05:30,440 --> 00:05:33,719 Speaker 1: market was simply nothing. So the stock market hasn't opened. 114 00:05:35,080 --> 00:05:38,440 Speaker 1: The shange of fire between Iran and Israel happened on 115 00:05:38,600 --> 00:05:42,280 Speaker 1: a Friday, which is weekend in Iran, and then on 116 00:05:42,320 --> 00:05:46,279 Speaker 1: the following Saturday there was an important religious holiday, so 117 00:05:46,560 --> 00:05:49,080 Speaker 1: the market and actually the whole economy was supposed to 118 00:05:49,320 --> 00:05:53,320 Speaker 1: be closed anyway, the economic activity the market was supposed 119 00:05:53,360 --> 00:05:56,200 Speaker 1: to resume on a Sunday, but they didn't open, so 120 00:05:57,360 --> 00:05:59,880 Speaker 1: the market, the stock market, pretty much most of the 121 00:06:00,040 --> 00:06:03,280 Speaker 1: currency market has been closed for the last two weeks. 122 00:06:03,960 --> 00:06:05,840 Speaker 2: Assuming out for a second. Actually, there are two early 123 00:06:06,400 --> 00:06:10,240 Speaker 2: things that strike me. One, this is true frontier market 124 00:06:10,360 --> 00:06:13,680 Speaker 2: investing when you're in a position in which you literally 125 00:06:13,720 --> 00:06:17,200 Speaker 2: cannot easily communicate with your team on the ground because 126 00:06:17,200 --> 00:06:20,400 Speaker 2: there are a lack of internet or lack of communications. 127 00:06:20,760 --> 00:06:24,240 Speaker 2: But it strikes me that in some sense this is 128 00:06:24,279 --> 00:06:28,320 Speaker 2: what the fund manager gets paid for, because for many reasons, 129 00:06:28,360 --> 00:06:30,120 Speaker 2: including the fact that it's not trivial to look up 130 00:06:30,200 --> 00:06:32,400 Speaker 2: data or even access to these markets, a lot of 131 00:06:32,440 --> 00:06:35,640 Speaker 2: investors are never going to be participating in this market. 132 00:06:35,760 --> 00:06:38,560 Speaker 2: And then you layer in on all these additional complications 133 00:06:38,760 --> 00:06:42,359 Speaker 2: like this is essentially, at least in theory, the deep 134 00:06:42,520 --> 00:06:45,599 Speaker 2: risks that in theory you get compensated. 135 00:06:45,000 --> 00:06:49,440 Speaker 1: For Yeah, you get compensated for actually giving access to 136 00:06:49,440 --> 00:06:52,320 Speaker 1: the market because it's very difficult or impossible to get 137 00:06:52,360 --> 00:06:55,000 Speaker 1: access at this moment as a non resident team run 138 00:06:55,120 --> 00:06:57,799 Speaker 1: to the local stock market. But also you get paid 139 00:06:57,800 --> 00:07:00,719 Speaker 1: for solving all the operational programs. You know, we have 140 00:07:00,880 --> 00:07:03,880 Speaker 1: quite a long track record in Iran and the main 141 00:07:03,960 --> 00:07:06,880 Speaker 1: thing actually that we are really proud of because investing 142 00:07:06,920 --> 00:07:09,680 Speaker 1: when everything is priced for war is fairly easy, right, 143 00:07:09,680 --> 00:07:11,760 Speaker 1: And also you have a market that is very inefficient 144 00:07:11,760 --> 00:07:14,600 Speaker 1: because it's driven by retail investors, Like ninety percent of 145 00:07:14,680 --> 00:07:18,000 Speaker 1: daily flows are coming from retail. So there is a 146 00:07:18,000 --> 00:07:20,880 Speaker 1: lot of alpha, a lot of inefficiencies that you can harvest. 147 00:07:21,120 --> 00:07:25,480 Speaker 1: But the real issue is our operations. One thing is 148 00:07:25,560 --> 00:07:28,280 Speaker 1: due diligence. I mean, you know a lot of sanctioned 149 00:07:28,520 --> 00:07:31,760 Speaker 1: restrictions which are not on the whole country, but we're 150 00:07:32,040 --> 00:07:35,520 Speaker 1: related to many different entities, sectors. 151 00:07:35,000 --> 00:07:35,400 Speaker 4: And so on. 152 00:07:35,480 --> 00:07:38,480 Speaker 1: So you have to do due diligence on every single 153 00:07:39,000 --> 00:07:42,840 Speaker 1: decision you're taking, before every decision you're taking. But also 154 00:07:42,920 --> 00:07:45,600 Speaker 1: you need to solve the problems. For example, the problem 155 00:07:45,640 --> 00:07:49,840 Speaker 1: of changing currency making transfers. Iranian banks are not connected 156 00:07:49,880 --> 00:07:53,720 Speaker 1: to the Swift system there are specialized banks that actually 157 00:07:54,240 --> 00:07:58,920 Speaker 1: do for example, payment for humanitarian trade with Venezuela right 158 00:07:59,040 --> 00:08:01,560 Speaker 1: or Iran, so food medical devices. 159 00:08:01,560 --> 00:08:03,600 Speaker 4: This is never under sanctions and you need to be 160 00:08:03,640 --> 00:08:04,560 Speaker 4: able to pay for it. 161 00:08:04,840 --> 00:08:08,440 Speaker 1: But those transfers take like nine months to execute, right. 162 00:08:09,280 --> 00:08:12,440 Speaker 1: I remember we once had to process a payment for 163 00:08:12,520 --> 00:08:15,360 Speaker 1: it like a very very official way. We had to 164 00:08:15,440 --> 00:08:20,400 Speaker 1: have the signature of the actual minister in Iran approving 165 00:08:20,400 --> 00:08:21,840 Speaker 1: the payment, right, So it took. 166 00:08:21,720 --> 00:08:24,080 Speaker 4: Nine months al together. But there are other ways. 167 00:08:24,120 --> 00:08:27,920 Speaker 1: There are other corridors, payment corridors that across emerging markets 168 00:08:27,960 --> 00:08:30,680 Speaker 1: and including Iran, that make it much more efficient. So 169 00:08:30,760 --> 00:08:33,240 Speaker 1: for example, right now, when you have the stock market, 170 00:08:33,280 --> 00:08:36,000 Speaker 1: the currency market were shut down, but you could track 171 00:08:36,360 --> 00:08:38,960 Speaker 1: the exchange rate, what's going on with the exchange rate 172 00:08:39,200 --> 00:08:43,360 Speaker 1: of the Iranian real versus dollar, either on telegram chats 173 00:08:43,440 --> 00:08:48,120 Speaker 1: but also oncurrency exchanges, so you have you know, liquid 174 00:08:48,320 --> 00:08:52,160 Speaker 1: market on stable coins versus Iranian real inside of Iran, 175 00:08:52,640 --> 00:08:57,120 Speaker 1: where well liquidity was limited during the last period anyway, 176 00:08:57,320 --> 00:08:59,280 Speaker 1: but we could see the changes, so we knew that 177 00:08:59,480 --> 00:09:03,240 Speaker 1: one dollar before the war was at around eight hundred 178 00:09:03,440 --> 00:09:07,520 Speaker 1: thirty thousand reals per one dollar. Then it went up 179 00:09:07,960 --> 00:09:11,440 Speaker 1: roughly fifteen percent to nine hundred fifty thousand, and now 180 00:09:11,920 --> 00:09:15,439 Speaker 1: after the ceasefire it's back down at eight hundred fifty thousand. 181 00:09:15,720 --> 00:09:18,960 Speaker 1: So you can track the market, you can actually make 182 00:09:19,040 --> 00:09:21,880 Speaker 1: transactions depending on on the liquidity. 183 00:09:21,880 --> 00:09:22,760 Speaker 4: But it is possible. 184 00:09:23,000 --> 00:09:24,720 Speaker 1: And to be honest, I mean when I saw those 185 00:09:24,800 --> 00:09:29,400 Speaker 1: exchange rates moves fifteen percent, when you have a war 186 00:09:29,480 --> 00:09:32,560 Speaker 1: where a lot of commentators were saying that this could 187 00:09:32,640 --> 00:09:36,600 Speaker 1: turn into a massive worldwide conflict, that fifteen percent in 188 00:09:36,640 --> 00:09:38,800 Speaker 1: a country like you run, I would say that this is. 189 00:09:38,920 --> 00:09:41,199 Speaker 4: Your usual volatility on the currency market. 190 00:09:42,200 --> 00:09:44,560 Speaker 3: Wait, so when you're talking to your team on the ground, 191 00:09:44,600 --> 00:09:46,480 Speaker 3: when you can get hold of them, what are the 192 00:09:46,559 --> 00:09:49,560 Speaker 3: questions you're asking them exactly? Because the markets are closed, 193 00:09:49,600 --> 00:09:53,360 Speaker 3: so presumably you're not marking your portfolio to market on 194 00:09:53,400 --> 00:09:56,720 Speaker 3: a daily basis, But what information are you trying to get? 195 00:09:57,040 --> 00:09:59,280 Speaker 1: Well, the first few days, the only information I was 196 00:09:59,320 --> 00:10:02,040 Speaker 1: interested in was if they were safe, to be honest, 197 00:10:02,360 --> 00:10:06,320 Speaker 1: because you know, the the what residents of Tehran and 198 00:10:06,320 --> 00:10:10,880 Speaker 1: some other cities experience was they've never experienced just explosions 199 00:10:10,920 --> 00:10:11,560 Speaker 1: in the city. 200 00:10:11,800 --> 00:10:14,520 Speaker 4: It's like the older Iranians compared it to the eighties 201 00:10:14,559 --> 00:10:17,480 Speaker 4: when Iran was fighting Saddam Hussein in Iraq. And this 202 00:10:17,559 --> 00:10:18,439 Speaker 4: is when you know. 203 00:10:18,440 --> 00:10:22,160 Speaker 1: The last last time, when when someone was firing missiles 204 00:10:22,200 --> 00:10:23,280 Speaker 1: at Iranian cities. 205 00:10:23,679 --> 00:10:25,839 Speaker 4: So after a. 206 00:10:25,800 --> 00:10:29,960 Speaker 1: Few explosions that were too close to home, they basically evacuated. 207 00:10:30,040 --> 00:10:32,520 Speaker 1: They moved to smaller cities. And this was a big 208 00:10:32,559 --> 00:10:35,760 Speaker 1: trend in Iran. So in Tehran, a lot of residents 209 00:10:35,760 --> 00:10:39,240 Speaker 1: were just relocating out of Tehran. Tehran is a big city, 210 00:10:39,240 --> 00:10:42,040 Speaker 1: it's like twelve million people and they were moving mainly 211 00:10:42,160 --> 00:10:44,600 Speaker 1: north to some smaller cities by the cast and sea. 212 00:10:45,080 --> 00:10:46,960 Speaker 4: So you had massive congestion. 213 00:10:47,320 --> 00:10:50,400 Speaker 1: People were spending hours in traffic jams trying to get 214 00:10:50,400 --> 00:10:53,599 Speaker 1: out of the Tehran. There was not enough petrol on 215 00:10:54,000 --> 00:10:57,320 Speaker 1: gas stations just because of this peak in demand. You 216 00:10:57,360 --> 00:11:00,440 Speaker 1: had some petrol rationing and then I was as them, okay, 217 00:11:00,520 --> 00:11:01,840 Speaker 1: so is the economy working? 218 00:11:01,920 --> 00:11:06,680 Speaker 4: Not working? So everything that was non essential basically was closed. 219 00:11:06,720 --> 00:11:09,360 Speaker 1: So you couldn't I don't know built by building materials 220 00:11:09,480 --> 00:11:14,840 Speaker 1: or if you make this, but groceries, pharmaceuticals, gas stations, banks, 221 00:11:14,840 --> 00:11:18,439 Speaker 1: This was all open and working properly with some disruptions. 222 00:11:18,440 --> 00:11:20,960 Speaker 1: But those disruptions, for example, if you wanted to buy 223 00:11:20,960 --> 00:11:26,480 Speaker 1: groceries in north of Iran where everyone has just relocated. 224 00:11:26,880 --> 00:11:30,520 Speaker 1: You had some bottlenecks, logistical bottlenecks, so distribution was not 225 00:11:30,600 --> 00:11:33,839 Speaker 1: fast enough. So you had some shortages just for a 226 00:11:33,880 --> 00:11:38,880 Speaker 1: little while with banks when some branches were not operating 227 00:11:38,960 --> 00:11:42,360 Speaker 1: a one hundred percent capacity. But two banks got hacked, so 228 00:11:42,400 --> 00:11:45,679 Speaker 1: you had some cyber attacks on two banks that you ran, 229 00:11:45,960 --> 00:11:49,160 Speaker 1: and one cryptocurrency exchange. The rest of the banking sector 230 00:11:49,320 --> 00:11:50,880 Speaker 1: was working without any disruptions. 231 00:11:50,920 --> 00:11:52,000 Speaker 4: You could get cash. 232 00:11:51,960 --> 00:11:54,840 Speaker 1: From many atm so there was there were no problems 233 00:11:54,880 --> 00:11:57,520 Speaker 1: like this. So these are the questions about everyday life. 234 00:11:57,800 --> 00:12:03,120 Speaker 1: And then, very importantly, had any listed companies reported any damages? 235 00:12:03,280 --> 00:12:08,400 Speaker 1: Right that? Has there been any destruction to civilian infrastructure 236 00:12:08,720 --> 00:12:16,200 Speaker 1: important for the riding economy. 237 00:12:23,880 --> 00:12:26,640 Speaker 2: It's pretty crazy how hard it is apparently to get data. 238 00:12:26,679 --> 00:12:30,120 Speaker 2: I'm actually at the tront stock Exchange Wikipedia page, and 239 00:12:30,320 --> 00:12:33,560 Speaker 2: whoever maintains that page hasn't updated the number of listed 240 00:12:33,600 --> 00:12:35,760 Speaker 2: companies as two thousand and nine, and there's a stock 241 00:12:35,800 --> 00:12:39,400 Speaker 2: market chart here that goes to twenty fourteen, setting aside 242 00:12:39,600 --> 00:12:43,520 Speaker 2: the last couple of weeks. How have Iranian stocks been 243 00:12:43,600 --> 00:12:46,000 Speaker 2: doing the last year or a couple of years. 244 00:12:46,920 --> 00:12:48,760 Speaker 4: Yeah, So Iranian stocks. 245 00:12:48,760 --> 00:12:51,000 Speaker 1: You have to observe it in US dollars or in 246 00:12:51,200 --> 00:12:55,200 Speaker 1: any hard currency, right because in local currency obviously doesn't 247 00:12:55,240 --> 00:12:57,760 Speaker 1: tell you anything. If you looked at the stock market 248 00:12:57,800 --> 00:13:01,240 Speaker 1: in Zimbabwe when Zimbabwe was going bus the stock market 249 00:13:01,280 --> 00:13:05,120 Speaker 1: was performing amazingly in nominal terms in local currency terms, 250 00:13:05,280 --> 00:13:07,800 Speaker 1: but obviously in dollars it was going to zero. And 251 00:13:07,840 --> 00:13:11,800 Speaker 1: it's interesting because, Okay, there is information, very up to date, 252 00:13:12,720 --> 00:13:17,880 Speaker 1: detailed information on Iranian stocks available in Iran, but the 253 00:13:17,920 --> 00:13:21,120 Speaker 1: majority of this information is not accessible if you're trying 254 00:13:21,160 --> 00:13:24,240 Speaker 1: to access it from a computer with your IP address 255 00:13:24,280 --> 00:13:26,600 Speaker 1: outside of your so a lot of this information is 256 00:13:26,640 --> 00:13:31,200 Speaker 1: restricted to Iran IP only, but you cannot find anywhere 257 00:13:31,480 --> 00:13:33,040 Speaker 1: on the whole Internet. 258 00:13:33,120 --> 00:13:35,160 Speaker 4: Right, there is no website that. 259 00:13:35,240 --> 00:13:39,240 Speaker 1: Shows the stock market index in dollars. So when we 260 00:13:39,320 --> 00:13:42,120 Speaker 1: send it out to our investors. 261 00:13:41,559 --> 00:13:43,720 Speaker 4: Or just people who. 262 00:13:43,000 --> 00:13:45,200 Speaker 1: Want to read news about the stock market in Iran, 263 00:13:45,360 --> 00:13:47,040 Speaker 1: we are the only source of this information. 264 00:13:47,080 --> 00:13:47,840 Speaker 4: This is quite amazing. 265 00:13:47,880 --> 00:13:49,880 Speaker 1: I mean, it's a country of nineteen million people and 266 00:13:50,120 --> 00:13:52,440 Speaker 1: you know stock market with seven hundred companies, and there 267 00:13:52,480 --> 00:13:55,440 Speaker 1: is no single place in Internet that would show you 268 00:13:55,480 --> 00:13:57,800 Speaker 1: the only important index. 269 00:13:57,520 --> 00:14:01,240 Speaker 3: Right, Yeah, that's really stunning. Okay, So when I think 270 00:14:01,240 --> 00:14:03,840 Speaker 3: of the Iranian stock market, I think of two things. 271 00:14:03,880 --> 00:14:07,760 Speaker 3: I think oil and then I think geopolitical risk. How 272 00:14:07,800 --> 00:14:12,000 Speaker 3: does the market typically handle or what do those exposures 273 00:14:12,040 --> 00:14:15,680 Speaker 3: actually look like and do when there's a big event 274 00:14:15,840 --> 00:14:17,520 Speaker 3: such as what we saw in the past week. 275 00:14:18,800 --> 00:14:23,200 Speaker 1: So in terms of oil, oil is not really publicly traded. 276 00:14:23,440 --> 00:14:29,280 Speaker 1: There is one Iranian monopoly called National Iranian Oil Corporation 277 00:14:29,440 --> 00:14:32,080 Speaker 1: or company that is responsible for production. 278 00:14:32,680 --> 00:14:35,200 Speaker 4: Yeah, I think this is all centralized in one company, 279 00:14:35,240 --> 00:14:37,080 Speaker 4: and this is held by the government, so it's not 280 00:14:37,160 --> 00:14:37,920 Speaker 4: publicly listed. 281 00:14:38,360 --> 00:14:42,840 Speaker 1: You have some exposure to oil through oil refineries that 282 00:14:42,920 --> 00:14:46,400 Speaker 1: are listed, but refineries don't trade. They're not sensitive to 283 00:14:46,720 --> 00:14:49,400 Speaker 1: the price of oil. They are sensitive to the to 284 00:14:49,440 --> 00:14:52,960 Speaker 1: the crack spread, right, which which defines their margin on 285 00:14:53,200 --> 00:14:56,360 Speaker 1: the refining margin, so they are not really per proxy 286 00:14:56,400 --> 00:14:59,960 Speaker 1: to oil prices. The whole stock market actually is will diversify, 287 00:15:00,200 --> 00:15:04,479 Speaker 1: so you have you know, large sectors such as chemicals. 288 00:15:04,520 --> 00:15:07,560 Speaker 1: Mainly these are like petrochemicals, I don't know companies that 289 00:15:08,200 --> 00:15:11,960 Speaker 1: produce different products different versions. Use natural gas that is 290 00:15:12,360 --> 00:15:16,480 Speaker 1: in large supply as a cheap commodity and produce fertilizers 291 00:15:16,520 --> 00:15:18,560 Speaker 1: or products like this right, so this is probably twenty 292 00:15:18,600 --> 00:15:21,320 Speaker 1: percent of the stock market. Then you have steel companies. 293 00:15:21,400 --> 00:15:24,440 Speaker 1: The largest steel company in the Middle East is in Iran. 294 00:15:24,720 --> 00:15:28,000 Speaker 1: You have car makers that produce around one million cars, 295 00:15:28,480 --> 00:15:31,920 Speaker 1: more than one million cars a year. So with car 296 00:15:32,000 --> 00:15:36,520 Speaker 1: manufacturers you have all the related industries suppliers you know, 297 00:15:36,560 --> 00:15:40,680 Speaker 1: to the car manufacturing businesses. You have banks, financials as 298 00:15:40,680 --> 00:15:45,280 Speaker 1: an important sector, plus some consumer exposures, some building materials, 299 00:15:45,360 --> 00:15:48,120 Speaker 1: some man companies are one of the best performance performance 300 00:15:48,160 --> 00:15:50,920 Speaker 1: over the last few years. Actually, yeah, so it's a 301 00:15:50,920 --> 00:15:53,880 Speaker 1: well diversified stock market like you ran an economy. 302 00:15:54,200 --> 00:15:57,120 Speaker 2: Well, sorry, just to follow up on the question before. 303 00:15:57,880 --> 00:16:02,960 Speaker 2: In usd terms, generally, how has the Tehran stock market 304 00:16:03,120 --> 00:16:05,160 Speaker 2: been performing? Setting aside the fact. 305 00:16:04,920 --> 00:16:08,240 Speaker 1: That sorry I didn't ask the question. Yes, so over 306 00:16:08,280 --> 00:16:10,800 Speaker 1: the last I don't know, eight years, I think. So, 307 00:16:11,120 --> 00:16:14,320 Speaker 1: let's say since the US and you ran signed the 308 00:16:14,400 --> 00:16:18,120 Speaker 1: nuclear deal back in twenty sixteen, so almost a decade ago, 309 00:16:18,600 --> 00:16:22,720 Speaker 1: it should be roughly double that level. 310 00:16:22,640 --> 00:16:25,360 Speaker 4: Right now, So we doubled since then. 311 00:16:25,560 --> 00:16:27,640 Speaker 1: But in the meantime there's been quite a lot of 312 00:16:27,720 --> 00:16:31,320 Speaker 1: roller coster So right in stocks in dollar terms are 313 00:16:31,880 --> 00:16:35,560 Speaker 1: three times lower right now, around three times lower compared 314 00:16:35,560 --> 00:16:38,440 Speaker 1: to the level back in twenty twenty. So if you 315 00:16:38,480 --> 00:16:41,680 Speaker 1: compare to August twenty twenty when there was a peak 316 00:16:41,720 --> 00:16:44,800 Speaker 1: of a local let's say, bull market and a bubble, 317 00:16:45,240 --> 00:16:48,120 Speaker 1: right now stocks are around three times lower than that 318 00:16:48,240 --> 00:16:50,960 Speaker 1: in dollar terms, and that's the main reason for that. 319 00:16:51,280 --> 00:16:56,000 Speaker 4: Over the last two years has been the sentiment. 320 00:16:56,440 --> 00:17:01,520 Speaker 1: Because twenty twenty three started to really well for the region. 321 00:17:01,600 --> 00:17:06,920 Speaker 1: There was this historical breakthrough agreement between Saudi Arabia and Iraq. 322 00:17:07,440 --> 00:17:11,159 Speaker 1: Both countries decided that they don't want conflict. They it 323 00:17:11,200 --> 00:17:15,000 Speaker 1: was basically like a peace treaty. They opened up embassies 324 00:17:15,040 --> 00:17:18,600 Speaker 1: in both countries and that was huge because Saudi finance 325 00:17:18,640 --> 00:17:21,520 Speaker 1: minister was talking about investment opportunities in Iran. 326 00:17:21,840 --> 00:17:23,320 Speaker 4: Iran and exporters were. 327 00:17:23,200 --> 00:17:26,879 Speaker 1: Hoping for new export markets to open up in the 328 00:17:26,920 --> 00:17:30,679 Speaker 1: region from Egypt to Saudi Arabia to whatever, all the 329 00:17:30,680 --> 00:17:31,399 Speaker 1: countries around. 330 00:17:31,840 --> 00:17:34,520 Speaker 4: So there was like a very positive moment. 331 00:17:35,080 --> 00:17:38,359 Speaker 1: At the same time, by the administration was negotiating with 332 00:17:39,040 --> 00:17:43,240 Speaker 1: the former Iranian government, so everything looked really really promising. 333 00:17:43,880 --> 00:17:45,680 Speaker 4: Instead, obviously what happened in. 334 00:17:45,720 --> 00:17:49,720 Speaker 1: October was Hamas was Gaza, and that changed everything, like 335 00:17:49,880 --> 00:17:53,720 Speaker 1: sentiment collapse and no one really wanted to look at 336 00:17:53,720 --> 00:17:56,440 Speaker 1: any risky assets in Iran. So you had a situation 337 00:17:56,520 --> 00:17:59,920 Speaker 1: where profits were going up. When you're looking at Iranians 338 00:18:00,640 --> 00:18:05,600 Speaker 1: enlisted companies, profits continue to grow, but the stock market 339 00:18:05,640 --> 00:18:08,440 Speaker 1: was going down. So obviously evaluations are just cheaper and 340 00:18:08,520 --> 00:18:12,359 Speaker 1: cheaper and cheaper. But everyone was focused basically on the 341 00:18:12,359 --> 00:18:15,480 Speaker 1: potential for the regional escalation rightfully so, and. 342 00:18:15,800 --> 00:18:18,240 Speaker 4: Not on you know, taking risk in their portfolios. 343 00:18:18,400 --> 00:18:21,879 Speaker 2: So just a big picture from your perspective, because thinking 344 00:18:21,920 --> 00:18:24,119 Speaker 2: back to your first answer where you talked about, Okay, 345 00:18:24,160 --> 00:18:26,560 Speaker 2: here's in theory what some comps could be and it 346 00:18:26,560 --> 00:18:30,720 Speaker 2: could look like Turkey, or it has resources potentially unscale 347 00:18:30,760 --> 00:18:34,240 Speaker 2: with Saudi Arabia. How much of the bet so to 348 00:18:34,280 --> 00:18:36,639 Speaker 2: speak from your perspective is what people would say, like 349 00:18:36,920 --> 00:18:42,560 Speaker 2: the option value from something happening, either it's a major 350 00:18:42,640 --> 00:18:47,760 Speaker 2: softening between Iran and the West, perhaps regime change, something 351 00:18:47,800 --> 00:18:51,120 Speaker 2: that triggers the big unlock, Like how much in your 352 00:18:51,200 --> 00:18:54,400 Speaker 2: mind is it about it? At some point something will reset 353 00:18:54,480 --> 00:18:57,879 Speaker 2: and some end that massive opportunity could actually be tapped. 354 00:18:58,720 --> 00:19:01,199 Speaker 4: So you're asking about the potential of this opportunity. 355 00:19:01,280 --> 00:19:04,280 Speaker 2: Yeah, Like basically like they didn't like basically Okay, it's 356 00:19:04,280 --> 00:19:06,520 Speaker 2: going to move around. There's sentiment here and there, but 357 00:19:06,520 --> 00:19:09,560 Speaker 2: that at some point down the future that actual opportunity 358 00:19:09,640 --> 00:19:11,639 Speaker 2: to be an economy and be a market on the 359 00:19:11,680 --> 00:19:15,440 Speaker 2: scale of a Turkey could one day actually realize through 360 00:19:15,480 --> 00:19:17,600 Speaker 2: some some switch that gets flipped. 361 00:19:17,800 --> 00:19:20,720 Speaker 1: Look, this is probably, I mean, from my perspective, the 362 00:19:20,720 --> 00:19:24,679 Speaker 1: biggest optionality in enlisted markets, in public markets that you 363 00:19:24,680 --> 00:19:25,120 Speaker 1: can find. 364 00:19:25,240 --> 00:19:28,160 Speaker 4: Yeah, because one thing is GDP and GDP the. 365 00:19:28,080 --> 00:19:30,679 Speaker 1: Way I look at GDP currently, I mean if you 366 00:19:30,720 --> 00:19:33,320 Speaker 1: google it, it say it's around four hundred billion dollars, 367 00:19:33,600 --> 00:19:36,240 Speaker 1: we think it's more like two hundred and fifty billion dollars. 368 00:19:36,359 --> 00:19:38,480 Speaker 1: It depends on the exchange rate that you used to 369 00:19:39,200 --> 00:19:41,480 Speaker 1: calculate it. So let's say Iran is two hundred and 370 00:19:41,520 --> 00:19:46,119 Speaker 1: fifty billion dollars GDP, and now Iranian non oil economy, 371 00:19:46,480 --> 00:19:50,600 Speaker 1: non commodity economy, if everything goes well, could be as 372 00:19:50,640 --> 00:19:53,920 Speaker 1: big as Turkey, and Turkey is one point one trillion, 373 00:19:54,080 --> 00:19:56,360 Speaker 1: and this is without any commodity. 374 00:19:56,359 --> 00:19:58,000 Speaker 2: But do it need to be do it need to 375 00:19:58,000 --> 00:20:00,480 Speaker 2: be an event like something would need happen? 376 00:20:01,000 --> 00:20:01,200 Speaker 1: Right? 377 00:20:01,320 --> 00:20:07,119 Speaker 4: Is right? Catalyst? Yeah? Absolutely, yeah, the catalyst is clear. Right, Okay, 378 00:20:07,600 --> 00:20:10,160 Speaker 4: I'll get back to the potential for GDP in a moment. 379 00:20:10,160 --> 00:20:12,040 Speaker 4: But the catalyst is absolutely clear. 380 00:20:12,040 --> 00:20:14,359 Speaker 1: It must be the opening up of Iran as a 381 00:20:14,400 --> 00:20:17,199 Speaker 1: country and opening up of the economy and sanctions lifted, 382 00:20:17,359 --> 00:20:20,200 Speaker 1: the US sanctions lifted, right, so there must be an 383 00:20:20,240 --> 00:20:22,600 Speaker 1: agreement between the US and Iran. 384 00:20:22,920 --> 00:20:25,640 Speaker 4: And what needs to happen well some sort. 385 00:20:25,480 --> 00:20:29,679 Speaker 1: Of political change, so political attitude must change on both sides. 386 00:20:29,840 --> 00:20:34,760 Speaker 1: But to be honest, many analysts were expecting some big 387 00:20:34,840 --> 00:20:38,080 Speaker 1: dramatic event that needs to happen in Iran for the 388 00:20:38,119 --> 00:20:41,639 Speaker 1: country to properly open up. And when you look at 389 00:20:41,680 --> 00:20:45,480 Speaker 1: Iran right now and you compare to let's say even 390 00:20:45,520 --> 00:20:48,800 Speaker 1: a few years ago, when you had negotiations with the US, 391 00:20:49,200 --> 00:20:51,119 Speaker 1: what were the biggest problem was? 392 00:20:51,240 --> 00:20:55,680 Speaker 4: It was always about two things. Iran and reaching uranium 393 00:20:55,760 --> 00:20:57,600 Speaker 4: too much basically at the wrong level. 394 00:20:57,920 --> 00:21:03,600 Speaker 1: And the second Iranian region policies right, so financing proxies 395 00:21:03,840 --> 00:21:07,919 Speaker 1: from Hesbolau to Hamas you know those assad in Syria 396 00:21:07,960 --> 00:21:10,960 Speaker 1: and so on, right, So these two things were always 397 00:21:10,960 --> 00:21:13,560 Speaker 1: the problem that they couldn't negotiate over. When you look 398 00:21:13,560 --> 00:21:18,159 Speaker 1: at it right now, well, to an art extent, both 399 00:21:18,200 --> 00:21:22,880 Speaker 1: obstacles are gone. So potentially this opens up a path 400 00:21:22,920 --> 00:21:26,040 Speaker 1: to an agreement, an agreement like a proper agreement, so 401 00:21:26,119 --> 00:21:29,000 Speaker 1: not the type of nuclear agreement that was signed under 402 00:21:29,040 --> 00:21:32,040 Speaker 1: Obama administration, which was never strong enough. And I think 403 00:21:32,160 --> 00:21:36,520 Speaker 1: both Americans and Iranians understand this. I mean, proper agreement 404 00:21:36,760 --> 00:21:40,960 Speaker 1: that lists sanctions US sanctions two and opens up the 405 00:21:41,000 --> 00:21:45,200 Speaker 1: country to everyone, to including like US investors if. 406 00:21:45,040 --> 00:21:47,200 Speaker 4: They want to tap into the opportunity. 407 00:21:47,520 --> 00:21:50,280 Speaker 1: And I think, I mean, it seems that this is 408 00:21:50,280 --> 00:21:52,679 Speaker 1: the thinking in the US that if we do it, 409 00:21:52,720 --> 00:21:55,919 Speaker 1: we do it properly. And I think, I mean not that, 410 00:21:56,000 --> 00:21:58,760 Speaker 1: I think, I mean, what's what we've been hearing from 411 00:21:59,000 --> 00:22:01,320 Speaker 1: on the Iranian side, Like a few weeks ago when 412 00:22:01,320 --> 00:22:04,160 Speaker 1: they were still negotiating, it was the same thing that 413 00:22:04,359 --> 00:22:09,000 Speaker 1: they were showing Iran the whole economy as a big opportunity, 414 00:22:09,080 --> 00:22:12,200 Speaker 1: like a trillion dollar opportunity, right or two trillion dollar opportunity. 415 00:22:12,240 --> 00:22:14,520 Speaker 4: I mean, it's a massive opportunity for all the investors. 416 00:22:14,760 --> 00:22:17,520 Speaker 1: So this is the trigger, this is the catalyst then 417 00:22:17,560 --> 00:22:21,080 Speaker 1: will unlock this optionality, this potential of you run growing 418 00:22:21,080 --> 00:22:23,920 Speaker 1: GDP from the current two hundred and fifty billion two 419 00:22:24,400 --> 00:22:29,159 Speaker 1: in some perfect scenario to two point three trillion dollars, 420 00:22:29,200 --> 00:22:31,639 Speaker 1: which would be a combination of Saudi and Turkey CDP 421 00:22:32,200 --> 00:22:34,040 Speaker 1: obviously if everything went well well. 422 00:22:34,320 --> 00:22:36,320 Speaker 3: But the other thing that's been happening over the past 423 00:22:36,320 --> 00:22:39,560 Speaker 3: week is we've had reports of an internal crackdown in 424 00:22:39,600 --> 00:22:42,760 Speaker 3: Iran and people getting arrested and things like that. And 425 00:22:43,280 --> 00:22:47,879 Speaker 3: when I think internal crackdown, I think hardening of capital controls, 426 00:22:47,920 --> 00:22:51,560 Speaker 3: which Iran already has. What are you hearing on that 427 00:22:51,640 --> 00:22:54,679 Speaker 3: side of things, because presumably that would make your life, 428 00:22:54,880 --> 00:22:56,399 Speaker 3: your job even harder. 429 00:22:57,840 --> 00:23:02,639 Speaker 1: Look, capital controls have been in place for Iranian entities 430 00:23:02,880 --> 00:23:06,640 Speaker 1: for some time. When it comes to foreign investors, it's 431 00:23:06,640 --> 00:23:09,960 Speaker 1: obviously difficult to access, but everyone who is there and 432 00:23:10,000 --> 00:23:13,360 Speaker 1: you have some really really large one of the largest 433 00:23:13,840 --> 00:23:18,800 Speaker 1: Swiss companies, German companies, Japanese, French companies still there, not 434 00:23:19,119 --> 00:23:23,479 Speaker 1: increasing their scale of their operations, but just sustaining what 435 00:23:23,480 --> 00:23:25,240 Speaker 1: they've had for the last twenty. 436 00:23:25,000 --> 00:23:28,639 Speaker 4: Years there, and they are welcome. Same with investors. 437 00:23:28,720 --> 00:23:33,000 Speaker 1: I mean, Iran desperately needs capital in the form of 438 00:23:33,359 --> 00:23:38,600 Speaker 1: Verdi ideally, but portfolio investments as well channel funding through 439 00:23:38,640 --> 00:23:42,440 Speaker 1: the stock market to local private companies. So this is 440 00:23:42,480 --> 00:23:45,040 Speaker 1: badly needed and Iran is aware of that and understands. 441 00:23:45,119 --> 00:23:48,960 Speaker 1: This offers government guarantees. We have the same guarantees as 442 00:23:49,000 --> 00:23:52,520 Speaker 1: all the big European companies that are present there against 443 00:23:52,600 --> 00:23:54,760 Speaker 1: extropriation of assets and so on and so forth. 444 00:23:54,960 --> 00:23:55,880 Speaker 4: So it's not. 445 00:23:55,800 --> 00:23:58,560 Speaker 1: That you're not welcome as a foreign investor. Quite quite 446 00:23:58,600 --> 00:24:03,000 Speaker 1: the contrary. There are programs that are designed to make 447 00:24:03,000 --> 00:24:06,080 Speaker 1: your life easier. You could even actually if you invest 448 00:24:06,119 --> 00:24:09,520 Speaker 1: I don't remember it was around two hundred thousand euro 449 00:24:09,800 --> 00:24:14,400 Speaker 1: dollar equivalent, you get a residency in Iran if you're 450 00:24:14,480 --> 00:24:16,400 Speaker 1: interested in this for five years. 451 00:24:16,200 --> 00:24:16,840 Speaker 4: I think so. 452 00:24:17,080 --> 00:24:20,760 Speaker 1: There are many, many programs designed specifically for foreign investors 453 00:24:20,760 --> 00:24:23,399 Speaker 1: to make the local market more attractive. 454 00:24:23,160 --> 00:24:24,119 Speaker 4: In terms of capital. 455 00:24:24,119 --> 00:24:27,159 Speaker 1: Controls for local residents have been always in place, so 456 00:24:27,640 --> 00:24:32,040 Speaker 1: limits on how much of foreign currency they are able 457 00:24:32,080 --> 00:24:34,679 Speaker 1: to buy and for what purposes. Right, so, if you 458 00:24:34,680 --> 00:24:37,200 Speaker 1: want to send your child to school in the US 459 00:24:37,280 --> 00:24:39,919 Speaker 1: or somewhere and you have to pay for education, this 460 00:24:40,119 --> 00:24:41,520 Speaker 1: has like different quotas. 461 00:24:41,600 --> 00:24:41,840 Speaker 4: Right. 462 00:24:41,880 --> 00:24:44,520 Speaker 1: If you want to travel, this is different, but it's 463 00:24:44,640 --> 00:24:47,320 Speaker 1: very very formalized and bureaucratic. 464 00:24:47,920 --> 00:24:51,200 Speaker 2: Other tech companies that trade on the turn stock market. 465 00:24:51,520 --> 00:24:52,600 Speaker 4: There are tech companies. 466 00:24:52,640 --> 00:24:57,119 Speaker 1: The ones that are that are listed are related to 467 00:24:57,560 --> 00:25:00,160 Speaker 1: enterprise software. 468 00:25:00,600 --> 00:25:04,520 Speaker 4: Or sub German. Yeah, SAP. But you have privately held companies. 469 00:25:04,080 --> 00:25:06,200 Speaker 1: That would like to IPO, but they are just waiting 470 00:25:06,240 --> 00:25:08,400 Speaker 1: for the approval from the regulator. And these are quite 471 00:25:08,480 --> 00:25:11,960 Speaker 1: amazing companies. You have Snap, which is like an Uber, 472 00:25:12,280 --> 00:25:15,800 Speaker 1: but Snap has more rights in Tehran than Uber in 473 00:25:15,920 --> 00:25:17,000 Speaker 1: any city in the world. 474 00:25:17,160 --> 00:25:20,520 Speaker 4: It's a really world class company. You have Dijkala, which 475 00:25:20,560 --> 00:25:21,680 Speaker 4: is like a like. 476 00:25:21,720 --> 00:25:25,040 Speaker 1: Amazon basically also a large company, one of the biggest 477 00:25:25,040 --> 00:25:29,080 Speaker 1: success stories. And many, many, many smaller e commerce companies 478 00:25:29,160 --> 00:25:30,480 Speaker 1: that are in the private market. 479 00:25:30,920 --> 00:25:36,360 Speaker 2: We'll look out for them. 480 00:25:36,560 --> 00:25:39,600 Speaker 3: Lots More is produced by Carmen Rodriguez and dash El Bennett, 481 00:25:39,640 --> 00:25:42,000 Speaker 3: with help from Moses onom and kel Brooks. 482 00:25:42,359 --> 00:25:45,359 Speaker 2: Our sound engineer is Blake Maples. Sage Bauman is the 483 00:25:45,400 --> 00:25:46,840 Speaker 2: head of Bloomberg Podcasts. 484 00:25:47,000 --> 00:25:50,119 Speaker 3: Please rate, review, and subscribe to our lots and lots 485 00:25:50,160 --> 00:25:53,119 Speaker 3: More on your favorite podcast platforms. 486 00:25:52,880 --> 00:25:55,480 Speaker 2: And remember that Bloomberg subscribers can listen to all of 487 00:25:55,520 --> 00:25:59,440 Speaker 2: our podcasts add free by connecting to Apple Podcasts. Thanks 488 00:25:59,440 --> 00:25:59,919 Speaker 2: for listening.