Speaker 1: So you ever read an entire book and not really
Speaker 1: get what it's about. I bring that up for no
Speaker 1: real reason, because this week on Popcorn Book Club we're
Speaker 1: taking in some screen time with the film adaptation of
Speaker 1: Daphne Dumourier's Rebecca. Last week we talked about Alfred Hitchcock's film,
Speaker 1: and now we're moving on to the brand new Netflix version,
Speaker 1: and we have some notes like it turned into a
Speaker 1: caper in the third act and you're like, she just
Speaker 1: oceans eight. Like this entire last half of this movie
Speaker 1: it didn't make I was like, what are you trying
Speaker 1: to do? That is a masterpiece. Welcome back to Popcorn
Speaker 1: Book Club. Danish Swartz here, joined as always by Karamadan Qua,
Speaker 1: Tian Tran, Melissa Hunter, and Jennifer Wright. Today we are
Speaker 1: continuing our Rebecca discourse. I was trying to combine those
Speaker 1: words for a second in my head before I said
Speaker 1: it and then bailed immediately reccaseccase. We're continue our conversation
Speaker 1: about Rebecca and the adaptations there within this time, focusing
Speaker 1: on the Netflix adaptation that was literally just released the
Speaker 1: day before. We're recording this starting really James and Army
Speaker 1: Hammer before no judgment to everyone involved. Because it did
Speaker 1: just release yesterday. Did we all get a chance to
Speaker 1: watch it? Yeah? Baby? Is everyone ready to have a
Speaker 1: party where we slowly chant Rebecca burned subtext in the
Speaker 1: fires of Manderland. Joe, Okay, so first of all, we
Speaker 1: should say that if you worked on this, I'm sure
Speaker 1: you worked really hard and it's really hard to get
Speaker 1: and nothing made. And yes, the costumes were beautiful, and
Speaker 1: you should be proud of yourself. And I get your
Speaker 1: mom is proud of you too, yes, And Kristen Scott Thomas,
Speaker 1: you are hast designer. Julian Day, you killed it. Screenwriter
Speaker 1: Jane Goldman, I've really enjoyed a lot of her work
Speaker 1: before she wrote the screenplay on Stardust. And these guys
Speaker 1: a lot of caveats. So, now that you've said that
Speaker 1: it's really hard to make something good, it's hard to
Speaker 1: get anything, it's incredible that anything is ever good. Honestly,
Speaker 1: that a movie or television show is ever good is
Speaker 1: an actual miracle. That is really real, thinking about all
Speaker 1: the people that have to touch it and that everything,
Speaker 1: all the gatekeepers. That is so real. So we thought
Speaker 1: it was dad, Wow, we really didn't. I laughed the
Speaker 1: whole time I had. I had a great time. It
Speaker 1: was amazing. I did have a Manderley ball with it,
Speaker 1: you know. Yeah, I didn't realize how bad it was
Speaker 1: until the ball. See, I was like this, it's not
Speaker 1: dripping me. I am very bored. But the costumes are
Speaker 1: nice and enjoying, like all of this, you know, English countryside.
Speaker 1: And then they get to the falsey where everybody in
Speaker 1: costume gathers around her for no every reason that I
Speaker 1: can understand. I don't think she's on like a hallucinogen.
Speaker 1: It trip about it feels that way, and they all
Speaker 1: just screamed Rebecca's name. It felt like a non commitment
Speaker 1: to a surreal scene, like they're like dipping, like it's
Speaker 1: someone who tries to do like it almost feels like
Speaker 1: you're at a ball and there's like a circle and
Speaker 1: there's a dance circle, and you go in the middle
Speaker 1: and you start to do like some kind of weird
Speaker 1: dance and then you immediately bail. You know. That's what
Speaker 1: the whole Secrets felt like. It felt to me like
Speaker 1: it was an internal expression of what was what she
Speaker 1: felt was going on at the party because she had
Speaker 1: shown up in the wrong dress, like the wrong dress,
Speaker 1: and she's like everybody's thinking about Rebecca. Everybody wishes I
Speaker 1: was Rebecca. This is what it feels like. But it
Speaker 1: wasn't clear her nightgown but also horrible. Yeah, the worst
Speaker 1: dres But also even if that was her fan, I
Speaker 1: mean it was her fantasy, like her nightmare. You can
Speaker 1: be a little more subtle than just people chanting Rebecca
Speaker 1: could just settled or just go hog wild and have
Speaker 1: that whole sequence be the surreal nightmare like pick a
Speaker 1: side direct. Yeah. My overall review of this movie is
Speaker 1: that it felt like a two hour do your Perfume commercial? Yeah,
Speaker 1: like good with these like gorgeous models and in beautiful
Speaker 1: costumes in this beautiful house and that's it. Yeah. Well,
Speaker 1: I started watching it hear the same age. I kept
Speaker 1: watching the romance between this age of prop couple. This
Speaker 1: is obviously attracted to each other because you know, Karama,
Speaker 1: you had brought up before your ideas with the prologue
Speaker 1: and like how it affects the book. I will say,
Speaker 1: this movie's problem to me, it was like you said yes,
Speaker 1: but for the first the ending is a nightmare. Will
Speaker 1: get to that, but at the beginning we get the prologue,
Speaker 1: but there's no tension there. What's what's scary about the
Speaker 1: prologue And like even the scene of them in the
Speaker 1: hotel is like that's their prison cell, that's their punishment
Speaker 1: for killing this woman and getting away from it. They
Speaker 1: live now in shitty hotels, being boring with each other,
Speaker 1: and there's like a sense of dread. And so you
Speaker 1: go into this fantasy knowing that there's a sense of dread,
Speaker 1: that something's gonna go wrong and they're gonna be trapped together.
Speaker 1: But this we don't get that. And so it's like
Speaker 1: here's a pretty girl and she meets a handsome guy
Speaker 1: who's nice her and they have a really nice romantic
Speaker 1: time on the beach, I mean an Olivier and like
Speaker 1: they make him charming on purpose, and there's no tension,
Speaker 1: and like she's immediately okay standing up to Mrs Danvers
Speaker 1: and like being outspoken, Like there's no dread. It's just
Speaker 1: like you said, like Melissa, like a perfume, Matt, It's
Speaker 1: just like flat. Yeah. I think it's a problem too,
Speaker 1: is that it tried to do too, Like it tried
Speaker 1: to be two different movies. It tried to be like
Speaker 1: a weird rom com because there's like a meat cute,
Speaker 1: she's clumsy, they fall in love at the end, and
Speaker 1: it also tried to be like this thriller and then
Speaker 1: also then a detective movie at the end where she's
Speaker 1: like running through the doctor's office, like it turned into
Speaker 1: a caper in the third act and you're like, she
Speaker 1: just oceans eight like this entire like last half of
Speaker 1: this movie. It didn't make. I was like, what are
Speaker 1: you trying to do? Is a masterpiece? But it is?
Speaker 1: And say all the way through, you know I who
Speaker 1: commits I will say. The thing to me that felt
Speaker 1: wrong is I'm trying to make this movie like feminist
Speaker 1: e girl power Like they were like, oh, she won't
Speaker 1: be such a wallflower, like she'll have agency and the
Speaker 1: thing don't really get rid of the whole book. Ye
Speaker 1: I had the whole book and also made it more sexual.
Speaker 1: How is not? How is the book more feminist eighty
Speaker 1: years ago than this movie is? Melissa? Girl power is
Speaker 1: a girl sneaking into a doctor's office for her man. No,
Speaker 1: girl power is getting to drive your convertible on the cliffs.
Speaker 1: As soon as she got on the driver's seat, he
Speaker 1: I was like this movie is totally different. If Maxim
Speaker 1: is giving her the keys to the car, like, come on,
Speaker 1: he loves her because she's like a child and an
Speaker 1: innocent that hasn't been corrupted by the world. He doesn't
Speaker 1: want her drive in the car. No, No, he wants
Speaker 1: her because he can control her, because she's subdued, like
Speaker 1: Rebecca was untamable. Well, I think so much of the
Speaker 1: book is about whether or not women can maintain their
Speaker 1: identity in marriage, and Rebecca can by floating all the
Speaker 1: rules about marriage. And Mr Winter never even gets a name,
Speaker 1: like she can't. She is completely a prisoner of her marriage.
Speaker 1: I just have to say, I felt like at every
Speaker 1: turn that completely shifted the female characters and made them
Speaker 1: somehow worse, except for Mrs Danvers. I feel like Mrs
Speaker 1: Danver's was the most consistent in terms of from the
Speaker 1: book to this film adaptations. Less gay, annoying, definitely, but
Speaker 1: still the most consistent. Like I felt like Mrs van
Speaker 1: Hopper in the book and even in the nineteen forties movie,
Speaker 1: she was an unpleasant person, but she was unpleasant in
Speaker 1: a normal way. This movie was just like she was
Speaker 1: literally a monster lady, but it was the book was
Speaker 1: The book was funny because she was unpleasant in a
Speaker 1: relatable way. And the book is very funny because like
Speaker 1: people act in ways that people actually act. And this
Speaker 1: was like it was like written as if an alien
Speaker 1: had never heard a joke before. Like, yeah, and Dowd
Speaker 1: in a different movie, I would have loved this performance
Speaker 1: that and Owd gave because she was just eat chewing
Speaker 1: up the furniture. It's like you go go to the
Speaker 1: Leven and Dowd, but then it's like then it's like surprised.
Speaker 1: We we directed a completely different movie outside of you.
Speaker 1: But I will say that I will watch. I would
Speaker 1: watch and Owd have the flu for like an hour
Speaker 1: and a half. She was so funny being sick, just
Speaker 1: like like that that drool that was like really did
Speaker 1: the close up of the drool? I gasped, like be more?
Speaker 1: Going back to Karama, what you were saying about dan Verse,
Speaker 1: I totally agree. She was amazing. What I didn't like
Speaker 1: that they made her do at the end is say
Speaker 1: all of the subtext in a monologue, her momog at
Speaker 1: the end, it was literally the Chanting Rebecca of speeches
Speaker 1: where she's like I had to burn it down it
Speaker 1: was our place, mine and Rebecca's that I care about.
Speaker 1: I couldn't let you have it. It's like, you don't
Speaker 1: have to say a suicide. Seeing suicide don't mean she
Speaker 1: also could you just you could have just seen that
Speaker 1: shot if that was the choice that decaid to make,
Speaker 1: and you could understand, like you don't need to say
Speaker 1: a goddamn word. Yeah. I didn't love the trying to
Speaker 1: convince her not to kill herself when all you've done
Speaker 1: is being odds with each other, like Mrs de Winter
Speaker 1: wants her to die. Like, I just didn't power the
Speaker 1: women helping seem very wrong. Come to me. They were like,
Speaker 1: here's a montage of party planning, and we're on the
Speaker 1: same team. Can you believe my god? That was I
Speaker 1: actually kind of liked the party planning were on the
Speaker 1: same page part because I knew that it was fake
Speaker 1: Mrs Danvers, and I was kind of like, oh, okay,
Speaker 1: this is like when Regina George says, oh my gosh,
Speaker 1: I love that skirt. Where did you get it? And
Speaker 1: I just knew that as soon as she turned her back,
Speaker 1: it was going to be like, that's the ugliest effing
Speaker 1: skirt I've ever seen. Why don't you jump up a balcony.
Speaker 1: I have a question, and I wasn't sure about this,
Speaker 1: and so I'm asking you, as like smart TV writing people,
Speaker 1: they made a choice of changed from the book that
Speaker 1: seems sort of minor, which is that Danvers fed the
Speaker 1: dress idea through the servant and I like that, okay,
Speaker 1: but here's the thing. The difference was, it wasn't a
Speaker 1: servant in the book. Her servant just came to the
Speaker 1: house and she was brand new, and so she wouldn't
Speaker 1: have seen Rebecca at the party, which is why when
Speaker 1: she's the only one who sees her in the dress,
Speaker 1: she's like, great, you look great. Have fun. At the
Speaker 1: party where this maid was there at the beginning, she
Speaker 1: was just like a chambermaid. So she knew that Rebecca
Speaker 1: had worn that dress, and dan Verse told her and
Speaker 1: she was like, oh, I just I thought you would
Speaker 1: like it, And she said that Mr. De Winter would
Speaker 1: be so happy. She should fire hold these people the
Speaker 1: minute that happen. She did try. She was bad at it.
Speaker 1: Oh my god, remember when she tries to fire dan
Speaker 1: Verse and then Max got mad at her because he
Speaker 1: thought that she was having an affair with with Jack
Speaker 1: was so weird, although I will say he was perfectly
Speaker 1: cast favel. I thought that was exactly the right amount
Speaker 1: of like the in between that we've been talking about
Speaker 1: in terms of the actor. Thigh scene was sexy, but
Speaker 1: what didn't make sense in real life she would be
Speaker 1: I think, too embarrassed to have said anything where in
Speaker 1: this she can't be confident enough to fire Mrs Danvers,
Speaker 1: but not conid enough to tell Jack like funk off.
Speaker 1: And then why would Max ever think She's like, Hey,
Speaker 1: a weird guy showed up at our probity today, whoa
Speaker 1: to visit? You know that your question about Mrs Danvers
Speaker 1: in the movie making the choice to like manipulate Mrs
Speaker 1: de Winter through the the Maid, I see what you're
Speaker 1: saying because in the book, to me, I'm like, Mrs
Speaker 1: Danvers would handle her own ship, like she wouldn't like
Speaker 1: delegate that manipulation to other people. Like I liked that
Speaker 1: in the book that like she is the one that
Speaker 1: she's doing, She's the one doing the game manipulation. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and I do, yeah, just from a writing perspective, and uh,
Speaker 1: you know, christ and Scott Thomas perspective. You have this
Speaker 1: great actor and I think The reason why I was like,
Speaker 1: what at the montage was it was such flip as
Speaker 1: opposed to you could have you could see dan Verse
Speaker 1: like warm to Mrs de Winter and say like are
Speaker 1: you having trouble with your costume? But you could see
Speaker 1: the manipulation and just like you see in the book
Speaker 1: and you're like, don't do it. It's like saying like
Speaker 1: don't go into the basement or whatever in a horror movie,
Speaker 1: and you don't get that in this one. It just
Speaker 1: goes from them not liking each other to a montage
Speaker 1: where they're planning a party. Yeah, it's like where someone
Speaker 1: if someone is mean to you, but in like a
Speaker 1: dominant way, there is something sort of like weird and manipulative.
Speaker 1: Then they kind of like give you a tidbit that
Speaker 1: you're like, oh, thank you, that's really helpful. Like I
Speaker 1: wanted to see that relationship laid out with it nance
Speaker 1: health point. But what I said, even in the last
Speaker 1: one um for Rebecca and for the book, why on
Speaker 1: earth would she trust Mrs Danvers when she tells her
Speaker 1: to wear this costume. So for me, the reason it
Speaker 1: made sense for her to have her go through the
Speaker 1: main Clari's was because Clara's has no reason to lie
Speaker 1: or to not be friendly to Mrs de Winter. So
Speaker 1: that's what I liked about that, because it was a tactic.
Speaker 1: She was like, look, she's already tried to fire me.
Speaker 1: She is like very sauce right now. So if I
Speaker 1: do this through Hoosie, what's it? She might actually wear
Speaker 1: this and I can get my revenge for the movie.
Speaker 1: I think that makes sense because in this book, Yeah,
Speaker 1: because in the book, why can keep calling her Rebecca
Speaker 1: Mrs i Am the American audience that is like Rebecca
Speaker 1: because she doesn't try to fire Mrs Danvers at the
Speaker 1: beginning like in the book. I love that Mrs Danvers
Speaker 1: is such a slow burn that there isn't anything, egregiously
Speaker 1: a red flag for Mrs de Winter that it would
Speaker 1: make her feel untrustworthy. But in the I mean, in
Speaker 1: this movie, they're just like, I mean, yeah, because it
Speaker 1: does feel like it could have been a more interesting
Speaker 1: relationship like the book, Like you were saying, crama of
Speaker 1: the Regina George, who is so good at manipulating and
Speaker 1: is so good at like you're terrified of her. But
Speaker 1: then when she's nice to you and suggests you wear
Speaker 1: that top, you wear the top, you know, And I
Speaker 1: feel like that's what was missing in both movies. Frankly,
Speaker 1: that's fair, that's absolutely fair. And both movies were directed
Speaker 1: by men who generally don't find themselves in those similar
Speaker 1: manipulative relationships. True. Do you think that making Clarise does
Speaker 1: it assumes that Clarice is dumb to the point of
Speaker 1: being treacherous. I think if she had any instant word
Speaker 1: self presentation, at least she requestioned whether or not that
Speaker 1: was advice that she should pass along immediately to her employer,
Speaker 1: a person who can fire her immediately. I bought her
Speaker 1: as dumb. I bought her too. I kind of liked
Speaker 1: in the book the way that Danvers planted someone with
Speaker 1: her who had not been in the house before, because
Speaker 1: I think that that also sort of know dan versus
Speaker 1: sort of like spider touch, that she knew like, Okay,
Speaker 1: I'm not going to give her someone experienced you can
Speaker 1: like contradict me in anything, so I'm the only expert
Speaker 1: in the house. Um. But I guess that is also
Speaker 1: very subtle and maybe couldn't have been conveyed as visually.
Speaker 1: But yeah, I think by empowering, I'm putting that in
Speaker 1: quotes like Lily James's character in like the most routine
Speaker 1: like Hollywood notes way, they totally undermine the point of
Speaker 1: the book, like she's not supposed to be confident. This
Speaker 1: is a weird arbitrary space with weird arbitrary rules where
Speaker 1: if you have not been raised in it, it is
Speaker 1: designed to make you feel. And that's why the turn
Speaker 1: in the book is so powerful when she does like
Speaker 1: come into her power, because it's not real. It's her
Speaker 1: feeling like I am now on the team of this man.
Speaker 1: She's now like complicit with this murderer, and that's what
Speaker 1: gives her the power, and that's why it's so fucked
Speaker 1: up and and subversive. You know, she can only be
Speaker 1: she can only get her power, like like Jennifer said,
Speaker 1: by like totally subsuming her identity to her husband. Yeah, yeah, apology,
Speaker 1: you understand that you want to help your husband get
Speaker 1: away with her. No, I'm still not there. I will
Speaker 1: never be there. There is no person on earth that
Speaker 1: would be my partner that I would help get away
Speaker 1: with murder and definitely not a man. Okay, So now
Speaker 1: that that's been put aside, I don't know your apology
Speaker 1: for that you will never apologize for that. What I
Speaker 1: do owe you an apology for is you were like,
Speaker 1: I think it's important that we never see Rebecca, and
Speaker 1: I was like, no, I want a dame named Rebecca,
Speaker 1: and they gave me the exact thing that I wanted, Like,
Speaker 1: I didn't like that for her to be in a
Speaker 1: red dress. It's like, can you be more predictable? Like
Speaker 1: the vibe that I got was like, you know how
Speaker 1: when in the you Belong with Me music video by
Speaker 1: Taylor Swift, the villain like the girl that the boy
Speaker 1: is dating is Taylor Swift, but with brown hair, and
Speaker 1: when in a red dress, it gave me very like
Speaker 1: mid mid career Taylor Swift vibes. You know what was
Speaker 1: more upsetting than seeing Rebecca is to seeing the like
Speaker 1: um swarm of birds representing one of That was one
Speaker 1: of the three notes I had when I watched this.
Speaker 1: I'm like, I wish the birds spelled out an R.
Speaker 1: I'm breaking with the rest of the movie. It might
Speaker 1: hang out on the top half spelled out? Are is
Speaker 1: that like supposed to be an homage to Yeah? Like
Speaker 1: what the hell? Which Daphne did? Mario also as they
Speaker 1: were like what if we just threw two Daphne's in one,
Speaker 1: throw some birds in there, put in a dame named Rebecca.
Speaker 1: We got the whole shebang. No, but I love birds
Speaker 1: more than anyone else in this chat. But I did
Speaker 1: not with the birds were disrespected. Those birds were not
Speaker 1: my least favorite part of the movie. Every time about
Speaker 1: this movie, everybody's least favorite part. I'll go first and
Speaker 1: say my least favorite part was the action movie ten
Speaker 1: minutes or she alone drives to that she's got to
Speaker 1: find the doctor. No, you don't second for Mrs winter h.
Speaker 1: I mean this might be obvious, but my least favorite
Speaker 1: part was the end. Specifically, Can I read the last line?
Speaker 1: Because I posit and rewound it to write it down.
Speaker 1: It made me so mad. I can see the woman
Speaker 1: I am now, and I know that I've made the
Speaker 1: right decision to save the one thing that is worth
Speaker 1: walking through Flames for love. No, that's the opposite of
Speaker 1: the books, because of this marriage, because he got shot
Speaker 1: in the face. Do you see the love? Oh my god,
Speaker 1: question Mark, it's not even an ending for this weird
Speaker 1: movie that I put together. But they didn't set that
Speaker 1: up at all. I have to go real quick walk
Speaker 1: through Flames for love. So let's take a break. Okay,
Speaker 1: we're back with Popcorn Book Club. Armie Hammer as Maxim
Speaker 1: was the most boring thing I've ever seen. He's like
Speaker 1: a nonentity in this movie. Like when he was not
Speaker 1: on screen, I forgot he existed. Yes, I have to
Speaker 1: say a thing that I said about Armie Hammer before
Speaker 1: this movie came out. I told someone I said the
Speaker 1: words I feel as sorry for Armie Hammer as you
Speaker 1: can for a conventionally attractive, wealthy male movie star, because
Speaker 1: Hollywood has been trying to make him a star and
Speaker 1: it just doesn't take. And then I watched this movie
Speaker 1: and I thought, maybe he just doesn't have it. I
Speaker 1: think you would have got a great Jack Alt. He's
Speaker 1: exactly who I amnted when I am ancing Jack developing
Speaker 1: like a little little puffy, Like was like unbelievably attractive
Speaker 1: ten years ago, but now like he's a little bit
Speaker 1: puffy and like maybe he drinks a little bit too much.
Speaker 1: He'd be perfect for that. Did he have a take
Speaker 1: on this character at all? Stiff Man? I mean, I'm
Speaker 1: like Armie Hammer a lot. I think I'm probably a
Speaker 1: bigger fan of Armie hammert than he's great. I think
Speaker 1: he's it seems like a nice guy Onstagram, is very
Speaker 1: funny Sorry to Bother You. I thought he was really
Speaker 1: a movie. A movie just has to use him, right, Yeah,
Speaker 1: this feels like they kind of all the stuff that
Speaker 1: makes interesting this movie. They knew like a normal man
Speaker 1: who didn't seem like maybe he's a sociopath, a prommercial
Speaker 1: Army Hammer take. So, I think that the problem is
Speaker 1: Armie Hammer is too hot and no, no, no, no,
Speaker 1: hear me out. He's too conventionally attractive to quote unquote hot.
Speaker 1: And I think that he has like character actor energy
Speaker 1: in him, because Sorry to Bother You is probably the
Speaker 1: closest he's ever come to like a character acting part.
Speaker 1: And that's where I think he shines the most. And
Speaker 1: all the things I've seen him in John Hammon energy,
Speaker 1: that James Marston, James Mars, Jamie Harrison problem. But he's
Speaker 1: a really good character actor that West World, right. Yeah.
Speaker 1: I love James Marson. I love James Marson, but I
Speaker 1: think that's his problem is that he's so conventionally handsome.
Speaker 1: People don't always see what like a good actor, you
Speaker 1: know what. I am positive that Arnie Hammer will do
Speaker 1: like an amazing HBO show five years from now, and
Speaker 1: he'll have a lovely renaissance and it'll be a great Yeah. Yeah,
Speaker 1: he should be on succession. That would be amazing, That
Speaker 1: would be that would be perfect. Do well in The
Speaker 1: Man from Uncle. I think I heard good things about that,
Speaker 1: but I never because I'm very fun. People supposed to
Speaker 1: stand for something I don't know, confused, and I'm not
Speaker 1: going to see it. He's he's fun in projects that
Speaker 1: like use his energy like in a fun way, and
Speaker 1: this was just like what if we don't I mean
Speaker 1: in the classics of the script, could anybody be used well?
Speaker 1: And that's what I felt like, both him and Lily James,
Speaker 1: who I've seen both do good work. But that's why
Speaker 1: Defwite felt like a perfume mad because they just felt
Speaker 1: like pretty models that were just told to sort of.
Speaker 1: It just all felt very stilted, from the writing to
Speaker 1: the acting to the directing, like it was just it
Speaker 1: felt like people just going through the motions of what
Speaker 1: a movie should be. Like what you were saying about
Speaker 1: the fact that like everything that made Maxim an active
Speaker 1: part of this original story is stripped away from the
Speaker 1: movie and like the worst parts of him is that
Speaker 1: he sleepwalks to the west, like that is supposed to
Speaker 1: be the spookiest part about this man. Another loss I
Speaker 1: feel like in this movie and why I'm so mad
Speaker 1: about the take because it was such a lost opportunity
Speaker 1: to show an interesting modern take on an abusive relationship,
Speaker 1: where like the outbursts that Maxim has in the book
Speaker 1: and the way she describes his face changing. It's like,
Speaker 1: for one moment he's like just Maxim. In the next
Speaker 1: moment he's she's a person. He doesn't she doesn't recognize.
Speaker 1: That feels like such an none of that was there,
Speaker 1: Like none of those Like he was mad at the
Speaker 1: rocks and just walked away and was like piss, pissy,
Speaker 1: but like not scary, and that's what you want. You
Speaker 1: want those moments of her being scared by him and
Speaker 1: then it goes away. I think it also why he's
Speaker 1: attracted to women, Like I don't want a murder daddy myself,
Speaker 1: but people want to recognize that some women want a
Speaker 1: murder daddy, and that is an archetype of man that
Speaker 1: it can be like very attractive in part because they
Speaker 1: have these volatile move swings um and that is godship.
Speaker 1: Was there even a second in the movie where you
Speaker 1: thought that he still loved Rebecca and was mourning her?
Speaker 1: Because he did not play that at all. He's he
Speaker 1: has to play it in a way where like you
Speaker 1: believe that Lily James up until that point thinks that
Speaker 1: he's being cold because he misses his ex wife, and
Speaker 1: this movie totally didn't do that at all, not for
Speaker 1: a split second. I have a question for the panel,
Speaker 1: um that my least favorite moment in this movie also
Speaker 1: connects to that. When they're on the beach and the
Speaker 1: romantic part is him taking little clumps of sand and
Speaker 1: putting it on her shoulder. Did he spell out an
Speaker 1: M because she goes back and looks at it in
Speaker 1: the mirror. Was it a tanned I was very key,
Speaker 1: That's what I'm asking. That's what I didn't watching, is
Speaker 1: that is that fucking M on her shoulder? Because why
Speaker 1: I was I was just like, oh, that's a thing.
Speaker 1: I guess, okay, I know she at it. That's why
Speaker 1: I was like, do that makes sense again? A little
Speaker 1: heavy handed? If that's what that is? Very heavy and
Speaker 1: that's like the idea of a sand brand like that
Speaker 1: sounds like a late night made like a seen on
Speaker 1: TV products sand brand when you want to mark something
Speaker 1: as yours, but you don't want it to be a
Speaker 1: permanent or painful sand But I like that if that
Speaker 1: is what happened, that we didn't get to see the
Speaker 1: full scene. So Maximum is like, okay, just lay right here.
Speaker 1: I'm going to put a clump of m on you.
Speaker 1: And then he's like, don't move. Don't move for an hour.
Speaker 1: At least they didn't for he didn't for a second
Speaker 1: make Rebecca seem cool and like awesome, and they didn't
Speaker 1: for a second make Lily James seemed lame enough. Like
Speaker 1: that contrast is important. And also when he can confesses
Speaker 1: to the murder to me by this point, like he
Speaker 1: doesn't say anything that in any way justifies it at all,
Speaker 1: where at least like in the book, you like got
Speaker 1: his character and like what type of person he is?
Speaker 1: Where in this with this character you're like, what, yeah,
Speaker 1: you murdered a lady. He seems like a very normal man,
Speaker 1: Like he seems like I think the normal human man
Speaker 1: reaction to your wife announcing that she's going to be
Speaker 1: non my opus, It's like, wow, we had a big
Speaker 1: miscommunication divorce. So yeah, it makes no sense that he
Speaker 1: would respond by letting this go off for ars and
Speaker 1: then shooting her and not just getting a divorce. So okay,
Speaker 1: they tried to make it make sense. They didn't make
Speaker 1: it makes sense, but they tried to make it make
Speaker 1: sense in that scene where they're in the car driving
Speaker 1: and he was saying, oh, I have no airs and
Speaker 1: you know, if I die, my estate goes to my sister,
Speaker 1: and you know, I love her kids, but they're not
Speaker 1: de Winters. So the whole thing is that he needs
Speaker 1: to have de Winters at Manderly. Fine, okay, yeah, but
Speaker 1: like I think that's why he shot her because it
Speaker 1: was like, you can't prove that this baby is not
Speaker 1: yours and it's just bang. But it's like he should
Speaker 1: have gotten That's that's why that reason makes sense in
Speaker 1: the reading of the book, where it's like he just
Speaker 1: likes our protagonist because she's like a young, fertile innocence,
Speaker 1: Like he does not care about her really as a person.
Speaker 1: He just wants someone he can kind of manipulate and
Speaker 1: doesn't Rebecca's like spunk getting there where it's like this
Speaker 1: guy and literally James like like a guy so obsessed
Speaker 1: with his family legacy. You're like, all right, if he
Speaker 1: has like a crazy sense of humor, maybe he shot
Speaker 1: a guy, shot a lady and and now is married
Speaker 1: to this like nobody. Fine, But the way they play
Speaker 1: this as like a straight up love story, You're like,
Speaker 1: it doesn't track, it's now, it's just the most important
Speaker 1: thing is love, Okay. And I think the other problem
Speaker 1: with this with the idea of making it like a
Speaker 1: Will met love story where they both seem like very confident,
Speaker 1: beautiful people. He would not marry a woman that confident,
Speaker 1: like his whole goal with his second wife should be
Speaker 1: I need a woman who will never cheat on me.
Speaker 1: I need a woman that I can pop airs out of,
Speaker 1: who will never so much with look at another man
Speaker 1: because she's too timid to do that. And um, Louis
Speaker 1: das a pretty confident from the beginning. I mean, she's
Speaker 1: not cheating with Jack Favell, but like, give up five
Speaker 1: more visits. I don't know if something could happen. Yeah,
Speaker 1: she was not writing. She was not writing side saddle.
Speaker 1: She was writing us ride like they did make Lily James.
Speaker 1: Is that what they teach you at prep school? Karama.
Speaker 1: That is not what they teach us at prep school.
Speaker 1: That's just me projecting onto the nineteen forties. I think
Speaker 1: that's when this was. It also was not clear when
Speaker 1: it was sometime after ninety five and before nineteen anyway. Sorry,
Speaker 1: I was just going to say. They did make Lily
Speaker 1: James's character stronger, but also they made her really weepy
Speaker 1: in ways that didn't feel like her Her naivete from
Speaker 1: the book was never It never felt like that. It
Speaker 1: felt more like her being insecure and more internal, and
Speaker 1: it would like she would have these flights of fancy
Speaker 1: that would never take her to like full on almost
Speaker 1: being in tears at every single like conflicted scene. Like
Speaker 1: I was like, she did not have a boss in
Speaker 1: the book, screaming to a large she was always That's
Speaker 1: what I was saying about Mrs van Hopper because I
Speaker 1: kind of liked Mrs van Hopper from the book and
Speaker 1: from the first she was in a normal way, like
Speaker 1: everything has an aunt. That's kind of that, you know,
Speaker 1: It's like, oh she was she was supposed to be
Speaker 1: attacking American, and they didn't make her American either, which
Speaker 1: is like and dad could have to slam dunk she
Speaker 1: could be attacking American. Yeah, I couldn't tell if she
Speaker 1: wasn't American or if she was doing a like mid
Speaker 1: Atlantic accent. I just like was like, what's happening and
Speaker 1: it was. I think this woman would be more popular
Speaker 1: than this van Hopper in the book is he's a
Speaker 1: crazy polster, extremely interesting. I would love to part this.
Speaker 1: She seems honestly very fun, I mean, deeply brow get
Speaker 1: somebody's face and that every party if it goes well.
Speaker 1: I do love people throwing drinks in people's face. I
Speaker 1: just want to see it happen. Um And I feel
Speaker 1: like if I met my slady on vacation, she would
Speaker 1: make sure it happened. And probably I didn't feel I
Speaker 1: didn't feel like Lily James was like helpless enough, which
Speaker 1: sort of needs to be to need to lead her
Speaker 1: identity onto this guy. And then because they were like, okay,
Speaker 1: let's make this a two handed love story, the character
Speaker 1: like they made every wrong choice because if if Mrs
Speaker 1: van Hopper is that insane, this only James wouldn't work
Speaker 1: for her. No, she's They made her clumsy, like like
Speaker 1: a rob clumsy person, just like dropping stuff. The beginning
Speaker 1: of the scene where you're supposed to that whole monologue
Speaker 1: where she's like, I don't really know much. I haven't
Speaker 1: seen the world, and she like walks in front of
Speaker 1: a group photo. I'm like, yeah, you're drumb for doing that,
Speaker 1: but like you shouldn't better than that. She's and she's
Speaker 1: like having conversation with Maxim where it's like she's very
Speaker 1: outspoken and yeah. I think the part where I was like,
Speaker 1: oh no, and it ever, I knew it was going
Speaker 1: to be bad was when she was like she talks
Speaker 1: about like some plant that she knows about, and it's like, oh,
Speaker 1: you know a lot of things like oh, I read
Speaker 1: a lot about it in books, but I've never seen
Speaker 1: the world. And I'm like, oh no, you just in
Speaker 1: a movie. Can we also say, being delivered a plate
Speaker 1: of bad cold ham and being too embarrassed to say
Speaker 1: anything is way funnier and more relatable than being banned
Speaker 1: from the terrorists or for accidentally ordering oysters in the morning.
Speaker 1: You know, I actually really like I was like that
Speaker 1: I would do that. Did she did she order twelve twelve?
Speaker 1: She ordered because she ordered some oysters? Yeah, I just
Speaker 1: I thought I know she was trying to say some
Speaker 1: eggs right. No, she just was repeating what the fancy
Speaker 1: lady had said with no context and no understanding of
Speaker 1: what the food was, which also is insane to me,
Speaker 1: because like I like to know what I'm putting in
Speaker 1: my body before I asked for it, so like I
Speaker 1: don't know, I would order a food I knew about,
Speaker 1: and I would be attacking American and be like what
Speaker 1: does this mean? She also she also just kind of
Speaker 1: if she's just gotten the same thing that he got.
Speaker 1: Oh no, I can talk absolutely doing that because she
Speaker 1: wants she wants to seem like she's a sophisticated person
Speaker 1: and one order in fresh and it's an order that
Speaker 1: she heard the lady at the next table make yesterday.
Speaker 1: I definitely have done that in France, like just being
Speaker 1: really embarrassed and like looking at what's on the menu
Speaker 1: and then hearing something like lemm shows Minley's paper thing
Speaker 1: is actually very minor. But it bothered me a lot.
Speaker 1: Is that the dog was not as cute as the
Speaker 1: nineteen forties version dog, Like I just didn't I felt
Speaker 1: nothing for this dog. I criticized the casting directors who
Speaker 1: cast that dog. There aren't that many dog guys in
Speaker 1: Hollywood hero. Hopefully I never need a dog for anything,
Speaker 1: because they're gonna hear this and they're just gonna black life.
Speaker 1: I don't know. I think there is really good dog casting.
Speaker 1: I forget what it was recently, but I was watching
Speaker 1: a movie with Jeremy and I was just like, completely
Speaker 1: sincerely said that's a really good dog actor. And he
Speaker 1: looked at me just started laughing and I didn't mean to.
Speaker 1: I meant it. It was a really good dog actor.
Speaker 1: Sometimes dogs do a really good job. I got the
Speaker 1: Jasper in the nineteen forties, Rebecca was killing it. I
Speaker 1: loved that dog. I cared a lot about that dog.
Speaker 1: He was a cute dog, and this dog was cute.
Speaker 1: These dogs were very, you know, like aesthetically pleasing dogs.
Speaker 1: They were good looking dogs. But I was just kind
Speaker 1: of like, you're a plot device and I don't care
Speaker 1: about you at all. Yeah, They're acting was wasn't grounded whatsoever.
Speaker 1: It was a little over the top. They're not nominated
Speaker 1: for an that's the dog dosar Okay, neither neither movie
Speaker 1: did this, and I understand because it might not like
Speaker 1: communicate well visually. But a thing that I realized I
Speaker 1: missed about the book was something that I like. I
Speaker 1: feel like not many has not been portrayed to me
Speaker 1: in book or film or television, and yet it's a
Speaker 1: feeling I find very relatable, the feeling of like being
Speaker 1: in a big house and now it's mourning, and like
Speaker 1: being very bored and like you can't do anything. She
Speaker 1: just like doesn't know where anything is, and her husband
Speaker 1: is gone and Mrs Sandfords is taken care of anything everything,
Speaker 1: and she's just like, what do I do now? Like?
Speaker 1: I like that, and I think that would be difficult
Speaker 1: to convey on screen, but would be good. I love that.
Speaker 1: But that was that anxiety, you know, but you're not
Speaker 1: you're not in your home. You're not in your home,
Speaker 1: you're in you're in some it's like waking up before
Speaker 1: your friend had a sleepover. Yeah, I've never been bothered
Speaker 1: by country house weekends. I find it you've ever said
Speaker 1: country house weekends plural, that's what knows weekends. I was
Speaker 1: about Jen. I was about to say, well, you know,
Speaker 1: I think that you're a little more comfortable around immense
Speaker 1: wealth than some of us. But I think you took
Speaker 1: care of that. Oh my god, country house weekends. I
Speaker 1: love that. Magazine I've been subscribing. Now you're going to
Speaker 1: be e can't be a breakfast when everybody's ready like
Speaker 1: around him? And what do you do? What are you
Speaker 1: doing for graduating? And you could scatch sure you can
Speaker 1: go to the card walk. I'm up. So let's ask
Speaker 1: each other what we thought the best part of the
Speaker 1: movie was. I can't take this anymore, my god, I
Speaker 1: want to have a country house weekend on weekend. I
Speaker 1: am very available for a country house weekends. Jennifer, I
Speaker 1: don't believe in then, so I don't think people should
Speaker 1: own more homes than they can live in it one time.
Speaker 1: But I'm sure, totally totally agreed. But I am open
Speaker 1: to anyone listening to this with a country house. I'm
Speaker 1: okay with it. I'm totally comfortable and have a very
Speaker 1: nice talk. Yeah, and I will bring you a basket
Speaker 1: of Janssenda. Thank you card. Yeah, you guys are writing
Speaker 1: billionaire son right now. Okay, that is the movie. I
Speaker 1: made him a movie. It bottles of homemade vanilla. If
Speaker 1: you invite me to your country home weekend, I'll bring
Speaker 1: you homemade vanilla with a card. I literally cannot make
Speaker 1: this country home weekend conversation. All right, let's favorite part
Speaker 1: of this movie wasn't Bracka's Weird beat Shock. It seemed
Speaker 1: really fun. It seemed like she had some good times here.
Speaker 1: There were like a lot of empty champagne bottles scattered around,
Speaker 1: interesting wee things, nice blankets like it's a weird paintings
Speaker 1: there that I clearly didn't fit in the main house.
Speaker 1: She's a little fun place. I bet you had good
Speaker 1: times there. I liked it. I like the cottage for
Speaker 1: Goblin core Vibebecca's weird little beat shack. Grandma was your
Speaker 1: favorite thing? Grandma? I love. I rated her in the movie.
Speaker 1: She wasn't in nineteen forty, but she was in twenty
Speaker 1: and I kind of liked that they took away the
Speaker 1: sort of it felt like an Alzheimer's moment in the book,
Speaker 1: where like where's Rebecca, Where's Rebecca? But in this she's
Speaker 1: just like, no, you're not married to my grandson. That's silly.
Speaker 1: It wasn't Rebecca is married to him. It's no, you
Speaker 1: definitely aren't. I don't know who you are. I don't
Speaker 1: know what this is. I just I don't buy it.
Speaker 1: I don't believe it. That's not my grandson. You're not
Speaker 1: that bitch, And I love that one quick thing I
Speaker 1: really like. My favorite thing is I liked a lot
Speaker 1: of the costumes. But one note that I had with
Speaker 1: the Caveat is why did he wear that same mustard suit?
Speaker 1: Because he's very rich, do not wear the same ugly suit?
Speaker 1: And also, I imagine that this is a movie. I
Speaker 1: would I mean, it was directed by a man, but
Speaker 1: I would have hoped they realized that, like women would
Speaker 1: like it and want it, and Armie Hammer is a
Speaker 1: really attractive man, and like women might want to look
Speaker 1: at him. Why didn't we get like good shots of
Speaker 1: him and like well cut suits and like Vulture you
Speaker 1: that we all ready They specifically called out the bile
Speaker 1: yellow suit. You know what it makes me think of
Speaker 1: the costuming that I would have loved is um in
Speaker 1: Lovecraft Country. The the Alexander Skarsgard looking guy that is
Speaker 1: actually the girl. The way he dresses, that's good. That's
Speaker 1: for women. Um and came in you know anyone who's
Speaker 1: attracted to men. But I will say my favorite part
Speaker 1: was the casting of all of the the Downstairs The Help.
Speaker 1: I loved christ and Scott Thomas. I loved Firth. I
Speaker 1: loved Um the Maid, that her maid. She was such
Speaker 1: good casting and I love and I loved the downstairs
Speaker 1: party that she goes into the kind of Titanic looking
Speaker 1: like party, and that books fun. I wanted more of
Speaker 1: them and their drama. Yeah, I just wanted down to nappy.
Speaker 1: I kind of want most things that have like service
Speaker 1: people to be down to nabby where it's like, Wow,
Speaker 1: these are fully rounded, three dimensional characters, and I like
Speaker 1: care about Carson, Yeah, I care so much. My favorite
Speaker 1: part of this movie is Kristen Scott Thomas. She absolutely
Speaker 1: made this film for me. Anytime she was on screen,
Speaker 1: I was just like, oh not. She's like a fox
Speaker 1: first of all, and just smoldering the whole time and
Speaker 1: so scary, like so scary. I couldn't. I can picture
Speaker 1: myself being like a a person just like in this
Speaker 1: big house and Mrs dan And if she starts walking
Speaker 1: towards me, I will be scared and turned on at
Speaker 1: the same Yeah. The Purpose movie that I hated the
Speaker 1: most because I did not catch to say my least
Speaker 1: favorite part is when Danvers kills herself. There is nothing
Speaker 1: of part of her character that leads me to believe
Speaker 1: that she would ever do that. She survived the loss
Speaker 1: of her lover slash daughter. She's not gonna jump off
Speaker 1: a cliff because she couldn't drive the second and sister
Speaker 1: Winter to suicide after she just won. She just burnt
Speaker 1: down the house. Good for her, go to France. Yeah, leave.
Speaker 1: I like and like a tone of ambiguity where you
Speaker 1: almost I mean, you know she burns down the house,
Speaker 1: but like you don't know know it like the book
Speaker 1: ends at the perfect moment. Yeah. Um, and I hate
Speaker 1: Lily James having should try to help her at the
Speaker 1: last night. Just first of all, I don't think you
Speaker 1: should have any relationship with someone who tries to crack
Speaker 1: you just suicide. Um, and just like that right out there,
Speaker 1: I think it is insane that you would talk to
Speaker 1: Nanrew's at all, let alone try to pull her back
Speaker 1: from a cliff. I'm gonna go sand brand my partner
Speaker 1: right now with my letters of my name, so I'll
Speaker 1: be right back in a few hours. Actually, all right,
Speaker 1: so let's get back into it. I need to shift
Speaker 1: the conversation before this goes on too long. To the
Speaker 1: climax of the movie. This like Courtroom in Quest of
Speaker 1: I will say A thing that I thought was very
Speaker 1: prescient about the book is how the system is designed
Speaker 1: to make the white rich landowner as comfortable as possible
Speaker 1: throughout the entire thing. And I thought that was very
Speaker 1: funny and like spot on an astute that at every
Speaker 1: turn the magistrate and the corner was like, we are
Speaker 1: so sorry Max, So we don't mean to inconvenience you,
Speaker 1: Mr de Winter, and we just this, we have to
Speaker 1: do it. Oh no, your wife was shot, but oh no,
Speaker 1: it's not like we would ever want to inconvenient too.
Speaker 1: And this they're like, nobody is above the law. But
Speaker 1: I will say I didn't think it was prescient of
Speaker 1: the book. I think it was an accurate depiction of
Speaker 1: always yes, sorry, well well said, well said. But yeah,
Speaker 1: I did like the Lawyer just in terms of like
Speaker 1: liking a legal drama, and like all I do right
Speaker 1: now is watch Law and Order with my mom on
Speaker 1: we TV because they have all of the episodes every
Speaker 1: day cent when we show it on BBC America. Yeah,
Speaker 1: there there's always Law and Order on and that's what
Speaker 1: we watch. But I like the Lawyer for that because
Speaker 1: he did feel kind of like a district attorney Jack McCoy.
Speaker 1: But I didn't like that in terms of that's literally
Speaker 1: not what would happen in this place, in this time
Speaker 1: with this person in this book that was sourced for this,
Speaker 1: like did you read Yeah, And the fact that they
Speaker 1: made it like paparazzi, like the book is they wanted
Speaker 1: it to be discreet for a reason. It's because they
Speaker 1: were trying to protect Maxim and like for them to
Speaker 1: turn it into this whole like circus, turn it into Chicago, Um,
Speaker 1: I was like not digging it whatsoever. And yeah, it
Speaker 1: just felt like every step of it was a real
Speaker 1: misunderstanding of the book, which is so strange because there
Speaker 1: is a movie already that mostly like they got it
Speaker 1: roughly like seventy percent of the way and I'm like, nail, yeah,
Speaker 1: And it's like, oh, the whole point of that back
Speaker 1: sequence is like the tension building and then it gets
Speaker 1: released and then there's a new tension and then it
Speaker 1: gets released and a new tension and released and you
Speaker 1: know it's going to end badly, but you don't know how. Um.
Speaker 1: And so it just feels like dread building on dread
Speaker 1: building on dread, and they just like we're gonna be
Speaker 1: like this is now it's an episode of law and order,
Speaker 1: Like what's happening? It's really subtle and funny to me
Speaker 1: when uh, when Favel and when Favel's at the house
Speaker 1: and keeps demanding more drinks and he's really like uncouth
Speaker 1: and you can tell that even though he is right,
Speaker 1: and the reader knows he's right, you're like, yeah, of
Speaker 1: course the police is, Oh, it's going to be fully
Speaker 1: on maxim side because this is just like and that
Speaker 1: scene that they cut from this movie that was in
Speaker 1: the Hitchcock movie that I think was maybe my favorite
Speaker 1: scene in the book was when it's Favel and de
Speaker 1: Winter and Mrs de Winter and then the cop comes,
Speaker 1: the magistrate comes over, and then Mrs Danvers comes in
Speaker 1: and Frank is there, and it just feels like, wow,
Speaker 1: that is such a fun scene to film because it
Speaker 1: is such a like building and there's so many people
Speaker 1: and they're all just there's like a little furtive glances
Speaker 1: going back and forth. Then it's just like that feels
Speaker 1: fun and cinematic and they're just like who knows what?
Speaker 1: Who's going to reveal what? Yeah. I also owe an
Speaker 1: apology to Alfred Hitchcock because I feel like I now
Speaker 1: appreciate the artistry of Rebecca. It was a much better
Speaker 1: movie than I gave it credit for last week. And
Speaker 1: I retract some of my statements, which ones you can
Speaker 1: guess it's hard to make a good Rebecca adaptation. I
Speaker 1: think we've learned. And good job Alfred Hitchcock. Congratulations picture this.
Speaker 1: This movie did a better job of what we had
Speaker 1: talked about. That was missing from the Hitchcock film was
Speaker 1: just like the little hints of Rebecca in in the
Speaker 1: you know, the handkerchief and in the in the hair brush,
Speaker 1: like those little moments where she's constantly haunted or she's
Speaker 1: just her presence is there, but she's not like running
Speaker 1: away in a red dress. But they like did both,
Speaker 1: which I thought was totally unnecessary, but they did do
Speaker 1: a better job of that, just like how her ghost
Speaker 1: is there in the objects, and like how the house
Speaker 1: is held. And the handwriting was better, Oh my god. Yes, yes,
Speaker 1: the handwriting was what I was after and gorgeous. I
Speaker 1: will say, after this movie, I googled personalized stationary and
Speaker 1: made we want to getty. It was so pretty. Somethings
Speaker 1: on their way to country House weekend, Oh my god,
Speaker 1: and we got, sorry, a glimpse of the flower room
Speaker 1: she ran through. I really like something that I think
Speaker 1: was in the book, also because it was the r um,
Speaker 1: but something I really like about the fact that Rebecca's personalized, stationary,
Speaker 1: and like her pillowcase and all this crap has an
Speaker 1: R and it's never a DW for de Winter, and
Speaker 1: it's very much that like, no man can own Rebecca.
Speaker 1: She is Rebecca, and I really like that. And nobody
Speaker 1: tried to make it an R D W at any point.
Speaker 1: They're like, no, it's an R. We're not going to
Speaker 1: have a dame named Rebecca, except in this version they did.
Speaker 1: But you're gonna see her in that pillow case. It
Speaker 1: does make me really wish, though, that either I or
Speaker 1: my future husband had a last name with a D
Speaker 1: E at the front of it, because I think there's
Speaker 1: something very cool about an R D E lower case W,
Speaker 1: and I would love like an M D E lower
Speaker 1: case something your name, you know, Darcy Cardon, the actress
Speaker 1: from The Good Place, her name didn't have She added
Speaker 1: that apostrophe. Yeah, when she was like fifteen, you know,
Speaker 1: like every every child like changed their name to make
Speaker 1: it more interesting. Some of us started to do that.
Speaker 1: Did you all like the part where she has that
Speaker 1: bad dream and she's walking in the hallway and she
Speaker 1: gets eaten by the flower. I don't like any dream
Speaker 1: sequence almost. Yeah, I will say the best dream sequence
Speaker 1: in cinematic history is the opening scene from Bringing On. Yeah.
Speaker 1: I'm not thinking you're right, Yeah, that is great. I
Speaker 1: think it's open dreams. I don't hate that. Yeah, A
Speaker 1: goofy movie has a cold open dream. That's the person
Speaker 1: only example. These are feel like we need to be covering.
Speaker 1: I'm racking my brain for a cold open dream. I
Speaker 1: can't think of one right now, Jennifer. I did want
Speaker 1: to make very clear. I want to say, even though
Speaker 1: as someone who would say you were right, or die
Speaker 1: for your husband if he eat murders, I will say
Speaker 1: this as someone who knows and loves Daniel. I think
Speaker 1: he's great. I am very very glad you did not
Speaker 1: change your name and remain Jennifer. Right the initial rebecca
Speaker 1: and are not Jennifer. Um it's yeah. Uh. The only
Speaker 1: person who felt strongly about me changing it was my
Speaker 1: dad who really found that I should change it to
Speaker 1: my husband's name. But your name is so much better. Sorry, Daniel.
Speaker 1: I mean we we all loved Daniel very very much.
Speaker 1: But yeah, I had written, I had my second book
Speaker 1: coming out by different I was engaged, Like it just
Speaker 1: didn't really make sense for I could never figure out
Speaker 1: how I was going to have this name that I
Speaker 1: published books under and I did all my writing under,
Speaker 1: but I also had a different name at home, and like,
Speaker 1: what name would I give to people if I was
Speaker 1: out in public? And day just really honestly seemed easier
Speaker 1: to keep my own. And it wasn't like a twenty
Speaker 1: one year old woman getting married when I had an
Speaker 1: accomplished professional things yet I'd written a bunch of books
Speaker 1: under my name. Also, Alt No Shade Kimble Smith is
Speaker 1: a silly sounding name. It is a very silly sounding there.
Speaker 1: It's it's a real choice on Peter's part that they
Speaker 1: wanted to go down that road. We should all add
Speaker 1: the D before our last name. So the end, oh
Speaker 1: the engine, this is the thing. They turned it into
Speaker 1: a grand love adventure where actually manderlike burning down was
Speaker 1: a blessing in disguise because they can travel the world
Speaker 1: together as young age appropriate lovers thoughts, and also they're
Speaker 1: in Cairo, like what was that they're supposed to be
Speaker 1: in Cleveland. He would never he would never be in Cairo.
Speaker 1: Maxim would not go to Cairo when too hot and
Speaker 1: there are too many brown people. Yeah, what I really
Speaker 1: needed for that scene was like if you know, if
Speaker 1: she was reading a book and he grabbed it out
Speaker 1: of her hands and was like, you're seeing the world
Speaker 1: now and like three little crow, Yes, yes, you don't
Speaker 1: need to read to read, and then she was like
Speaker 1: love is real. What they need to do is go
Speaker 1: into a cafe or some like I don't know, something
Speaker 1: that's like Cairo specific, that's culturally specific to where they are,
Speaker 1: and then meet somebody else who is of the West
Speaker 1: and haven't be Judy Greer. And then she becomes best
Speaker 1: friends with Willie James and I love that. I love
Speaker 1: Judy Greer and I wanted to be in every movie.
Speaker 1: It was would always bring your movie up a few notches.
Speaker 1: I agree, what a jarring way to end a movie
Speaker 1: to that at all? No, it was. It was odd.
Speaker 1: It was very odd and very uncomfortable, and I was like, wait,
Speaker 1: did I miss the whole point? Yeah, the point in
Speaker 1: if you're super well your husband and you definitely put
Speaker 1: up at the fact that he shot his last like, hey,
Speaker 1: you play detective for him? Do you get to live
Speaker 1: happily ever after? On a beautiful, all expensive paification around
Speaker 1: the world. The thing about the book Rebecca is the
Speaker 1: husband maximum Gasola actively gaslights her the entire time by
Speaker 1: not having a simple conversation and making her actively think
Speaker 1: for a good reason that he is still tortured by
Speaker 1: the thought of and love for his first wife. He
Speaker 1: is a bad husband and those that cannot be. That
Speaker 1: plot is also not compatible with like and he's a
Speaker 1: Cairo adventured Yeah, it's a it's a unhappy ending. It's
Speaker 1: intentionally like this woman like, yeah, it's gasolt the whole time,
Speaker 1: and then she gets drawn in and then she's quote
Speaker 1: unquote in love. But we're so far along in with
Speaker 1: and we understand who this man is and who she
Speaker 1: is that we know it's not real and that it's
Speaker 1: a trap and that it's bad, and now she's stuck
Speaker 1: with him forever. The other thing that really bothered me
Speaker 1: about it was the choice of the narration in the
Speaker 1: beginning in the end, because it felt like such a cheat. A.
Speaker 1: But B if you're going to do it, then just
Speaker 1: have narration the whole fucking time, because like, then, just
Speaker 1: let's be with her. Let's be with her and understand
Speaker 1: her point of view, instead of it being like so,
Speaker 1: dear reader, like my dear audience, here's how this story ends.
Speaker 1: Like it just felt like a weird fairy tale ending.
Speaker 1: So what you're saying is you wanted a fleabag breaking
Speaker 1: of the fourth wall throughout the entire movie. I would
Speaker 1: love that people who wrote this movie listen to this
Speaker 1: second and take all of our good suggestions like putting
Speaker 1: Judy Greer in there and breaking the fourth wall and
Speaker 1: is redo the whole thing, Rebecca, It would be a
Speaker 1: fun mate wild and let's see what happened, you know, Melissa,
Speaker 1: when you were quoting the very last line. I also
Speaker 1: love that this Mrs de Winter chose like we walked
Speaker 1: through fire. No, that you through the murder. Murder is
Speaker 1: the thing that you are working through. They literally did
Speaker 1: not want to was on fire. The maids walked through fire.
Speaker 1: Her active choices and I'm putting all this in quotes
Speaker 1: as a strong female protagonist. At the end, her frantic
Speaker 1: little drive to the doctors totally pointless because the second
Speaker 1: they opened those folders they know she has cancer. If
Speaker 1: the movie really wanted to commit to that, it would
Speaker 1: be the she opened the things, saw that Rebecca was pregnant,
Speaker 1: and like destroys it. At least that is committing to
Speaker 1: this choice. This is like weird and passive, but that's
Speaker 1: like for a different But they're trying to move, They're
Speaker 1: trying to make it, but have it both ways of
Speaker 1: like having it be oh, yes he did murder her,
Speaker 1: but also we love them for it. Like it's just
Speaker 1: like what are they good or bad? Like what are
Speaker 1: you trying to say? I have a question, Yes, a
Speaker 1: logistical question. All right, So house burns down, sad sad, cry, cry,
Speaker 1: All the maids are out of work? What are they
Speaker 1: going to do? Set that aside for a second. Focus
Speaker 1: on the rich home. You don't care about them, they're
Speaker 1: not people. Focus on the rich, hot protagonists. They have
Speaker 1: now gone to travel the world looking for a new,
Speaker 1: permanent home together, free from the specter of Rebecca. Okay,
Speaker 1: I don't agree with that life choice, but understand it
Speaker 1: in the context of the film. But where is ster
Speaker 1: de Winter getting his money? Because my understanding was that
Speaker 1: he had generational wealth that was invested in the house
Speaker 1: and the estate, and that all of the money came
Speaker 1: from like in downtown Abbey. How they have the estate
Speaker 1: and there are people that rent, and there are farms
Speaker 1: and things like that. Like that's my understanding of estates
Speaker 1: based on doubt Nabbey. How they travel into Cairo where
Speaker 1: they get Cairo money, I will say, based on my
Speaker 1: limited historical research or knowledge, Actually those houses are often
Speaker 1: very very expensive and upkeep and if you all have
Speaker 1: to now yeah, and so that's like why they tore it.
Speaker 1: So actually, if you have generational wealth, it's and you
Speaker 1: want to keep your generational wealth, those houses hemorrhage money
Speaker 1: where like actually it is smarter to like burn it
Speaker 1: down or sell it or get rid of it and
Speaker 1: just have the money. So shoot, did them because starting
Speaker 1: it insurance? They did? They get insurance money? Yeah? Someone
Speaker 1: arson that not them. They weren't even there, yeah for
Speaker 1: them not Yeah, they didn't walk through fire. And then
Speaker 1: they're going to do to Cleveland Beauty. Financially, it's a
Speaker 1: great decision for them. Those houses are huge money sucks
Speaker 1: and and actually like a drain on wealthy family's income.
Speaker 1: Um yeah, yeah, And now they're gonna I guess be
Speaker 1: in Cairo, even though the whole point of Maximum de Winter,
Speaker 1: Sorry I'm rant again is that he is a boring
Speaker 1: bad guy who was provoked to murder his wife, and
Speaker 1: he is boring and wants a wife who will not
Speaker 1: challenge him in any way. And now, good for you second,
Speaker 1: Mrs de Winter, you get to read to him in
Speaker 1: a beige hotel room. M hmm. Yeah, it's like a
Speaker 1: no exit sort of ending. Yeah. Yeah, Rebecca was literally
Speaker 1: killed and now the seconds you're slowly dying for you know,
Speaker 1: foreable feature with her husband who doesn't who doesn't love her?
Speaker 1: You are either literally or metaphorical by the patriarch. Yes, well,
Speaker 1: I like Beatrice. I would say she lost a little
Speaker 1: bit of her bite from the book and from the
Speaker 1: first movie. But she was the only woman helping woman
Speaker 1: that made sense to me. Where she was like, let's
Speaker 1: just get you in a new dress. You're gonna go
Speaker 1: back down there. You are not gonna let somebody trick
Speaker 1: you into leaving your own party that you planned. You're
Speaker 1: a big girl, so put on your big girl nightgown
Speaker 1: and go downstairs. Very ugliest. Let's put you in the
Speaker 1: ugliest we ever seen. It was a costume party. So
Speaker 1: I think that they were like, it's it's ugly costume.
Speaker 1: She's ugly costume. It did feel very um, very like
Speaker 1: a girl's in a bathroom, you know, like one of
Speaker 1: them is crying. It's like, all right, let's get that
Speaker 1: eyeliner effects and then you're just gonna go out and
Speaker 1: funk your ex boyfriend who cares that he's with today
Speaker 1: you you forget about Steve. Steve can go to hell
Speaker 1: and you can have a great time with Meredith, and
Speaker 1: you're gonna have a great time with me. I just
Speaker 1: picked names out of the hat. I don't know. Meredith
Speaker 1: are no the immediate support network of drunk women. Yeah,
Speaker 1: that's the best, and I can. We spent a lot
Speaker 1: of time ragging on the women supporting women of this film,
Speaker 1: and it's because it felt an authentic and out of place,
Speaker 1: not because of that idea is something we are again.
Speaker 1: But I just I think that that was the one instant,
Speaker 1: the most word all women supporting in the montage. If
Speaker 1: it's turned otherwise, get it out of our money, Well
Speaker 1: you don't. If you're friends with every single other woman,
Speaker 1: that's really true, shared experiences and like usually they don't
Speaker 1: try to practice suicide and then be their friends. So yeah,
Speaker 1: if they're cold, imposing monsters bitches to you, you don't
Speaker 1: have to have a fun party montage. Yeah. A part
Speaker 1: of felinism is not having being forced to like every woman. Yes, yes,
Speaker 1: And I think she should have stuck to her guns
Speaker 1: with firing Mrs Danvers. She should be like, you know what,
Speaker 1: it's very nice that you have this remorse. Now take
Speaker 1: that to your new job. Yeah, it's an easy firing too,
Speaker 1: Like I just have my own people, like people I
Speaker 1: have a relationship with, and I really think that they're
Speaker 1: going to be able to run the house away. I
Speaker 1: see it being run. I'm so mad that they had
Speaker 1: her try to fire Mrs Danvers because the whole point
Speaker 1: is that she's too insecure exactly know how to run
Speaker 1: up this massive estate, which is huge, and then to
Speaker 1: know like, oh maybe all like house masters are like this,
Speaker 1: like you know, maybe I'm just being too sensitive, like
Speaker 1: she's a little insecure mouse. Yeah, Mrs she is not
Speaker 1: of her she is no, I mean, she is not
Speaker 1: hashtag girl boss. Yes, grandma, but she's never seen down
Speaker 1: to Abbey, so she doesn't know you, we don't know
Speaker 1: what year this takes place, so we actually do not
Speaker 1: know she's never seen down Navvy End where they were,
Speaker 1: like here, where are I mean? And I'm not saying
Speaker 1: that you have to hit us over the head with
Speaker 1: what year it was. I do know that they did
Speaker 1: have the invitation for the Maskball from Rebecca in so
Speaker 1: I think that was supposed to ground us, but also
Speaker 1: just kind of it felt maybe because I don't know
Speaker 1: enough about fashion and what clothes would have been in
Speaker 1: style in a specific year, including this one, because I'm
Speaker 1: bad at fashion. But eight was the year of the
Speaker 1: mustard suit. But like I kind of wanted to know
Speaker 1: when it's Mrs de Winter's or second Mrs de Winter's outfit,
Speaker 1: and I was like, oh, I just saw that on
Speaker 1: and other stories like that's how I wasted pant and blouse.
Speaker 1: I know that. Look, I know a lot more pants
Speaker 1: than I thought she would. But she's supposed to wear
Speaker 1: only Uly skirts. She's not. Yeah, both literally and metaphorically,
Speaker 1: she wore a lot of pants that we weren't expected. Look,
Speaker 1: I think if they did, the inevitable story from Rebecca's
Speaker 1: perspective that I pretty play surprise doesn't already exist. Lily
Speaker 1: tanks would have been a great person to playback. She
Speaker 1: could have worn lots of pants and written ran about
Speaker 1: horses and strike and a lot of girl power montashas
Speaker 1: with Mrs Stanfords, Jennifer, I feel like you have your
Speaker 1: next book. Oh I mean wow, um talk somebody hasn't
Speaker 1: done up. I think would be a great Rebecca. And
Speaker 1: Rebecca is Rebecca Hall. Oh, Rebecca's Rebecca because she's very tall.
Speaker 1: Got that person explain her to me. I know her
Speaker 1: because in the movie Starter for ten she plays the
Speaker 1: first Jewish British girl I saw in the movie when
Speaker 1: I was a kid. Yeah, she was in thick Christina Barcelona. Okay,
Speaker 1: she sounds lovely. You think she would go, Oh, she's
Speaker 1: in she's very confident that what I know? Yeah, yeah, yeah, okay,
Speaker 1: I got her and she's British. Something something I wrote
Speaker 1: down when I watched the movie is that Maxim was like, Oh,
Speaker 1: you wanted to see the world, so come with me
Speaker 1: to Manderley And I'm like, that's literally just her house. Yeah.
Speaker 1: That is the craziest most straight white man thing I've
Speaker 1: ever heard anyone say you wanted to see the world,
Speaker 1: come to my house? Like can you imagine getting that
Speaker 1: text at two in the morning from a dude named
Speaker 1: like Chad, just like, hey, I know you said you
Speaker 1: wanted to see the world. I got a place for
Speaker 1: you to start drop that stuff. Yeah, mm hmm. It's well.
Speaker 1: I will say I thought he did a pretty good
Speaker 1: British accent sounded. I was not bothered by his British accent.
Speaker 1: It seemed fairly inoffensive to me. Good job, I forgot
Speaker 1: he wasn't British. Yeah, I guess I did too. On
Speaker 1: that note, good job Hammer, You're you're doing your best.
Speaker 1: Jen You're making a face that it wasn't a good
Speaker 1: British accent. But here's what I want to say. Counterpoint,
Speaker 1: Peter Dinklig in all of Game of films, like, there
Speaker 1: are some middling British accents, and Armie Hammers was like,
Speaker 1: not great, he didn't I didn't think he was British.
Speaker 1: I wasn't like, oh yes, British actor Armie Hammer, but
Speaker 1: when he was talking, it wasn't like, yo, that's an Americ.
Speaker 1: See I also a fantasy show. It's like a rich
Speaker 1: I have fucking dragons. Are you going to say? Well,
Speaker 1: I was gonna say I forgive just fine British accent
Speaker 1: from an American because we are constantly bombarded by British
Speaker 1: actors who went to fucking Rada who are like, I
Speaker 1: know how to do a Southern accent, no problem, and
Speaker 1: everyone's like, oh wow, this wonderful British woman can do
Speaker 1: a accent from Georgia. It's perfect and that's never right.
Speaker 1: But it is hard to accents and they're like, how
Speaker 1: dare you touch the RP when they when Americans try
Speaker 1: to do it, like he was fine, you get enough
Speaker 1: to like make make it not a problem. It was
Speaker 1: the least defensive, very offensive movie. Again, thank you for
Speaker 1: listening to Popcorn Book Club from Dana di Schwartz, Karamada,
Speaker 1: Ti de Tran, Jennifer dr Wright, and Melissa D. Hunter
Speaker 1: Like a good sign up. I'm Danis Schwartz and you
Speaker 1: can find me on Twitter at Danis Schwartz with three
Speaker 1: z s. You can follow Jennifer Wright at jen Ashley Wright.
Speaker 1: Karama down Qua is at Karama Drama, Melissa Hunter is
Speaker 1: at Melissa f t w and Tian Tran is smart
Speaker 1: enough to have gotten off Twitter, but she is on
Speaker 1: Insta at Hank Tina Our Executive producer is Christopher Hessiotes
Speaker 1: were produced and edited by Mike John's Special thanks to
Speaker 1: David Wasserman. Next week we are going back to Lovecraft Country.
Speaker 1: We'll get some more screen time to talk about the
Speaker 1: second half of the season of HBO's adaptation. Popcorn book
Speaker 1: Club is a production of I Heart Radio.