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Speaker 1: Ah beat Force. If it doesn't work, you're just not

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Speaker 1: using enough. You're listening to software a gradio special operations,

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Speaker 1: military news and straight talk with the guys and the community.

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Speaker 1: YEA soft prep radio on Time on Target, Back on

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Speaker 1: with Us is a favorite out of the site, and

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Speaker 1: he's also back with this site. Jamie Reed a k

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Speaker 1: a J. Who I referred to as J from the

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Speaker 1: UK on the podcast before British Army reconnaissance specialists who

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Speaker 1: went on to work in close protection or I should

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Speaker 1: say as a close protection officer and surveillance specialist in

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Speaker 1: the UK. And from what I've seen, men, a lot

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Speaker 1: of people are glad to have you back on board

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Speaker 1: and writing new articles. I have to site your favorite

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Speaker 1: that We've had Jamie reporting with us from a number

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Speaker 1: of different countries, Ukraine, Somalia, Um, We've he's talked about

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Speaker 1: his time in Iraq, in Syria, so I mean it's

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Speaker 1: definitely gotten around and you know it has a pretty

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Speaker 1: unique perspective on some of these issues. Yeah, I mean,

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Speaker 1: what can I said? Drop him a busy I'm a

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Speaker 1: busy mom, as soon would say, I'd be like to

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Speaker 1: travel to all these wonderful places. Yeah, I mean I've

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Speaker 1: been I've been around around now for a long time

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Speaker 1: since twenty four scenes. So it's been good ride so far. Well,

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Speaker 1: I'll give Ja credit because if it wasn't for him,

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Speaker 1: I would be kind of lazy. As you're hearing this

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Speaker 1: the day after Christmas, and I was originally saying to Jack,

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Speaker 1: I'll make the best devil put that out. And Jay

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Speaker 1: has been on me that, you know, He's like, I

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Speaker 1: want to do a show talking about Ukraine what's going

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Speaker 1: on because you've been writing a lot about it. So yeah,

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Speaker 1: I mean, we have so many, um people who would

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Speaker 1: like to come on the podcasts, and there's so much

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Speaker 1: happening in the world that I mean, there's just no

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Speaker 1: shortage of um content is so to speak. Um, you know,

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Speaker 1: so we might as well just put a few on

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Speaker 1: tap and you know, so that people have an original

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Speaker 1: new episode to listen to over the holidays. So even

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Speaker 1: though um this is you know, being recorded before Christmas,

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Speaker 1: you're hearing it after. So I hope you guys all

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Speaker 1: enjoyed your howadays in general, and they're all over now, um,

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Speaker 1: and why we because we can't say Merry Christmas Ian No, Well,

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Speaker 1: Hanak has been over exactingly. I don't know about Quansa,

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Speaker 1: what they I don't know which days are Quansa or

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Speaker 1: how many people in the audience even celebrate. You heard

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Speaker 1: it here first, folks. Ian's trying to take the Christ

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Speaker 1: out of Christmas. Um. But yeah, and I hope you

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Speaker 1: guys all enjoyed your Christmas or whatever you're celebrating. I

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Speaker 1: personally I don't care, but I hope you enjoyed it.

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Speaker 1: And thanks to Jay, absolutely you're getting a live episode,

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Speaker 1: you know, and especially I do try to point out

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Speaker 1: you guys who are overseas, who are down range, who

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Speaker 1: don't get to experience Christmas, Christmas with your families. I

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Speaker 1: don't know what that's like. I'm sure you do know

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Speaker 1: what that's like. I mean, I I was very, very

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Speaker 1: lucky when I think about it, my entire time in

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Speaker 1: the military. I think I only missed one Christmas away

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Speaker 1: from my family, which is incredible. I mean consider and

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Speaker 1: I was in you know, just about eight years um.

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Speaker 1: So I mean I guess I was. I was privileged.

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Speaker 1: I was lucky in that sense that you know, I

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Speaker 1: almost always got to go home for Christmas. UM. So

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Speaker 1: many other soldiers out there, they are deployed over Christmas,

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Speaker 1: over Thanksgiving. They missed the birth of their children, They

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Speaker 1: miss their children's birthdays. I mean, yeah, it just books

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Speaker 1: been deployed at Christmas aspen last Christmas, even though it's contracting.

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Speaker 1: But I was stuck out in the rock last Christmas. Um,

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Speaker 1: you know, you do miss a lot of few miss

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Speaker 1: your kids, for those of those of kids anyways, you know,

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Speaker 1: you miss a lot of time with your kids. And

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Speaker 1: for me personally, this year, I'm getting deployed the day

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Speaker 1: after Christmas and I'll be missing my little girl going

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Speaker 1: to school for the first time, which is not something

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Speaker 1: that any dad would like to miss. But it's plating

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Speaker 1: parcel with the job. Yeah. Um, it's rough. And there's

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Speaker 1: got to be something about being in southern Iraq where

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Speaker 1: there's not quite the pine trees and the snow that

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Speaker 1: you associate with Christmas. Yeah, no, it definitely it is.

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Speaker 1: I mean I've seen some bloods up in the north there.

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Speaker 1: They bug dug seems to do better at least the

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Speaker 1: hotels and majority the basis and comes up at ly,

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Speaker 1: seems to decorate down in southern Buzz. You know, it's

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Speaker 1: just it's just a whole desert Yeah, it's somebody Christmas,

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Speaker 1: you know, and it's just life just goes. I'm down there,

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Speaker 1: you know, before you know the day is over. Nobody

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Speaker 1: really does too well to celebrate it down in Southern buzz.

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Speaker 1: So that means as people are hearing this, JA is uh,

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Speaker 1: you know, working hard out there, and uh, that's when

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Speaker 1: this will be up. But we want to get into basically,

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Speaker 1: you've been doing a lot of coverage on Ukraine. The

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Speaker 1: latest article up on news Rep, which once again for people,

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Speaker 1: is the news rep dot com that's our current news site,

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Speaker 1: is titled Ukraine Timeline of Events and what Russia has

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Speaker 1: been really been up to since. And if you look

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Speaker 1: through the article which I'll post in the article up

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Speaker 1: on Software radio dot com for this episode, it gives

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Speaker 1: a full timeline of of things that happened each year

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Speaker 1: since and I think it does a really good job.

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Speaker 1: So let's get into that latest article. I mean, so

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Speaker 1: the timeline, it's not like to say I haven't I

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Speaker 1: haven't gone into the back end of what happened prior

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Speaker 1: to you know, there is reports out there that suggest

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Speaker 1: that even as early as Russia was medling with the

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Speaker 1: don Bus region, having guys go over trained with their

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Speaker 1: parliam military units and then send them back to the

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Speaker 1: don bus and if you, if you would like, have

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Speaker 1: a sleeper cell weight in there upon its call. But

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Speaker 1: I just thought, in light of what's happened, in light

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Speaker 1: of all these recent events, people need to go back

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Speaker 1: to its roots. And ideally, I think that's what the

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Speaker 1: whole community, the international community could do, were just going

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Speaker 1: back to its roots and identifying the issues did we miss,

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Speaker 1: you know, some things back in because that's ultimately what

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Speaker 1: set this whole conflict off was the people themselves and

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Speaker 1: the government itself at the time wanted to align itself

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Speaker 1: with Russia, but the population felt as they wanted to

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Speaker 1: align themselves with the EU. Now I think we've got

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Speaker 1: that whole scenario or wrong. Um. I think we completely

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Speaker 1: mismisunderstood their relationship between Ukraine and Russia. I think we

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Speaker 1: misunderstood how Russia would actually take this this outstand of

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Speaker 1: the old and in with the new, if you like.

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Speaker 1: And and I think that's where we need to go back.

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Speaker 1: And I think we still need to go back and

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Speaker 1: have a look at those deeper issues and those deeper connections,

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Speaker 1: and that might shed some light on the current situation,

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Speaker 1: or at least how to fix the could on conflict. Yeah, Jamie,

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Speaker 1: I'd really like you to, you know, go into dive

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Speaker 1: into that subject. As far as what some of the

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Speaker 1: drivers were for the conflict kicking off in UM, I

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Speaker 1: would only add that one element that precipitated all of

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Speaker 1: this was UM are well, not just US, but the American,

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Speaker 1: French and Italian overthrow of Colonel Cadafi in Libya, in

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Speaker 1: which we assured President Putin of Russia that we were

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Speaker 1: not going to affect some sort of regime change there,

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Speaker 1: and then when we went into Libya, that's basically what

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Speaker 1: the game plan was from day one. UM and the

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Speaker 1: Russians were reportedly furious about this, and I think that

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Speaker 1: kind of at least played a part um in as

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Speaker 1: far as what happened in Ukraine a few years later, No, definitely,

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Speaker 1: I mean, like I said, one of the things that

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Speaker 1: I that I believe the West, I mean the West

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Speaker 1: has a part to play in this. We would kind

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Speaker 1: of influence in Midland, if you like, in hav in Ukraine.

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Speaker 1: Come over to the European Union. I believe the EU

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Speaker 1: was a lot too answerful. I don't think it really

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Speaker 1: understood just how close of a relationship the Ukrainian and

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Speaker 1: Russian government had. And I don't think the EU fully

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Speaker 1: understood the implications by having a Ukrainian government align themselves

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Speaker 1: with the West. What were the implications, Well, I would

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Speaker 1: say the implications what we've seen, you know, this escalation

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Speaker 1: of events from from the moment the House, the old

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Speaker 1: government that aligned itself with Russia. Russia simply set off

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Speaker 1: its proxies in Dombats, the annexation of Crimea, this latest

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Speaker 1: incident from the ass of sea Um. You know, the

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Speaker 1: whole escalation of events can be put down to I

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Speaker 1: think the EU medland in Ukraine long before. You know,

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Speaker 1: I don't think they fully understood by taking Ukraine away

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Speaker 1: from from Russia and disconnecting that government, having them aligned

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Speaker 1: themselves with the West. I don't think they understood that.

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Speaker 1: Russia said that as a major threat and a major

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Speaker 1: kick and a major kick in the chief, as I

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Speaker 1: would like to say. And due to that, it's just

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Speaker 1: set of this escalation of events and this NonStop war

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Speaker 1: or this frozen war, however you want to address it.

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Speaker 1: And that is one of the that is one of

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Speaker 1: the main factors Russia was happy to have Ukraine as

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Speaker 1: a partner as long as it aligned itself with them,

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Speaker 1: It was happy with the government. It might not have

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Speaker 1: been the most progressive country in the world, but that's

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Speaker 1: how they like it. And then by taking its neighbor away,

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Speaker 1: if you like, let's just set off this escalation of

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Speaker 1: events that started with the Maiden Revolution, that went onto

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Speaker 1: the Donbass Wars, that went onto the annexation of Crimea,

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Speaker 1: that will that has gone on to the capture of

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Speaker 1: these latest naval naval ships. They're gonna the van Acts

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Speaker 1: pretty much. And actually, as I've se off by now, um,

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Speaker 1: that will no doubt lead to future problems in Mariopool,

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Speaker 1: as that part can no longer run a function, a

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Speaker 1: complete destabilization of the east of that country. I mean,

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Speaker 1: it's you can kind of go on forever if you yeah,

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Speaker 1: I mean I think that I don't know what the

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Speaker 1: British perspective is, because you guys are a little bit closer,

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Speaker 1: of course. Um, But in America, I feel like there's

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Speaker 1: really we have a really difficult time understanding the conflict

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Speaker 1: in Ukraine, and um, the notion that the United States

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Speaker 1: would ever like invade Russia is something that to US

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Speaker 1: is absurd. I mean, it's just something that would never happen.

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Speaker 1: But from the Russian perspective, they see the United States

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Speaker 1: via NATO U encircling their country. I mean that the

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Speaker 1: comparison would be if Russia UM was occupying or otherwise

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Speaker 1: forming some sort of strategic alliance with Canada, Mexico, a

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Speaker 1: bunch of states down the Caribbean. I mean that would

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Speaker 1: make us nervous as hell. No, absolutely, And I remember

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Speaker 1: I remember reading this report the majority of the population

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Speaker 1: with inside of Risia do see the United States of

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Speaker 1: a dialect threat. And I mean obviously we can see

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Speaker 1: he didn't think you know, why do they think are UM?

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Speaker 1: I guess that's what happens in these state controlled state

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Speaker 1: round You know, countries obviously fed a lot of disinformation

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Speaker 1: about the United States. They fed a lot of disinformation

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Speaker 1: about NATO and the West. And then also where the

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Speaker 1: same in terms of the Ukrainian conflict. I mean you're

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Speaker 1: writing what you say, the UK has no better understanding

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Speaker 1: of what's happening in Ukraine from what the United States.

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Speaker 1: Because I was recently involved in advising some committees in

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Speaker 1: the House of Lads here in the UK on their

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Speaker 1: assessments of the Ukrainian conflict, and to be honest with you,

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Speaker 1: shocking how much and how little information they actually know

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Speaker 1: about about the country, about the conflict, and about what

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Speaker 1: this hybrid war actually looks like the Russian and what

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Speaker 1: it really entails. So I think really were disinformed on

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Speaker 1: both sides. The Russians are disinformed about is somewhere disinformed

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Speaker 1: about them? Yeah, I think one of the Um, there's

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Speaker 1: been like a simplification of the narrative I think by

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Speaker 1: a lot of people about Ukraine where they portray the

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Speaker 1: conflict as being about Nazis versus Communists. Um, it's just

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Speaker 1: kind of hilarious in a way. Um, but I was

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Speaker 1: wondering if you could expand on, you know, what this

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Speaker 1: conflict is really about. Who are the main players in

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Speaker 1: East Ukraine and West Ukraine? What what's really going on

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Speaker 1: over there? Well, I mean, so obviously the man opposing

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Speaker 1: factor is Russia, and then you'll hear the press talk

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Speaker 1: about the the data and the Lena these are meant

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Speaker 1: to be the proxies of Russia, these separatists. But I

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Speaker 1: think I think I'd like to move beyond that statement

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Speaker 1: of saying that the separatists and much just call them

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Speaker 1: Russians and unlet's just call the DNA military and the

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Speaker 1: Elena military. I just call them the Russian military because

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Speaker 1: that's what they are. You know, people keep using this

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Speaker 1: term separatists or proxies, and to be honest with you,

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Speaker 1: it's no longer lack that maybe was back in the day. Absolutely,

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Speaker 1: I think what your hard was elements of the Russian

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Speaker 1: military support and if you like militias. But I would

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Speaker 1: say at this stage the conflict has been going on

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Speaker 1: for four years. There are to the teeth that well trained,

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Speaker 1: they've got financing funding. You know, it doesn't take a

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Speaker 1: genius to work out where it comes from. So down

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Speaker 1: in the down in institute training, it's as simple as this,

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Speaker 1: to cut all the bullshit out the way you have

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Speaker 1: the Russian military sitting you know, fifteen twenty kilometers that's

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Speaker 1: meant to be at kilometers buffer zone between Ukrainian positions.

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Speaker 1: That's not the reality of the reality is that to

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Speaker 1: get as close as three between Ukrainian positions and Russian positions,

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Speaker 1: and that's what you have. I believe, if I'm honest,

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Speaker 1: nobody's really no one's seen a conflict like this before.

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Speaker 1: Because it's such it's such a close proximity, people make

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Speaker 1: it out like this. It's yet it's the bash stretch

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Speaker 1: of land. But the actual conflict itself, like I said,

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Speaker 1: it can be as close as a hundreds in some places.

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Speaker 1: You know, you've got Russian troops in one trench, Ukrainian

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Speaker 1: troops in another trench the less than a hundred meters apart.

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Speaker 1: That's your two, your two main people that are involved

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Speaker 1: in this conflict. There's no need to talk about all

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Speaker 1: these other little entities that kicking about. It is literally

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Speaker 1: Ukrainians and the Russian army. That's it. And what's the

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Speaker 1: I mean the prognosis then, I mean, how how is

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Speaker 1: this thing going to evolve in the future. Is it

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Speaker 1: just going to be like you said, uh, you know

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Speaker 1: a quote unquote frozen conflict is so like one of

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Speaker 1: the political science type terms that gets thrown around. I mean,

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Speaker 1: is this thing just gonna go on forever? Well? I

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Speaker 1: mean there's two there's few real theories behind how the

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Speaker 1: Ukrainian conflict can go. One is they eventually retake the Dombats,

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Speaker 1: which is how you unlikely as it's not that they

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Speaker 1: don't lack they have the right capabilities, to have the

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Speaker 1: right equipment, to have the right man power. But unless

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Speaker 1: you can put something on the Ukraine that the actual

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Speaker 1: Ukrainian was regarded by the way that you can actually

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Speaker 1: peace keepers on the natalk what sorry un force to

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Speaker 1: stop the Russians coming over and re supplying our intervening,

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Speaker 1: that's never really want to happen. You could end up

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Speaker 1: with a transnistor in Ukraine, which is the other highly

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Speaker 1: possible that it's a high possibility that this will go on,

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Speaker 1: as you have said, forever, and eventually the Ukrainian government

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Speaker 1: and the Ukrainian population will just lose taste with it.

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Speaker 1: There'll be no more shooting, et cetera, and exchange of

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Speaker 1: artillery fire and all that kind of good stuff. It

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Speaker 1: will just be a a state within a sovereign state

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Speaker 1: that's just allowed to exist and people would just lose

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Speaker 1: taste it. And that's the only two options, and its

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Speaker 1: options I really see is to have a have this

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Speaker 1: all out war for the Dombas again and you put

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Speaker 1: peacekeepers on the border, or it just turns into a

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Speaker 1: failed failed state. I mean, do you think there's any

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Speaker 1: realistic possibility that Ukraine is gonna mount some sort of

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Speaker 1: counterattack against really what amounts to you know, the Russian military,

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Speaker 1: and you know wherever it is done, Bossard for me

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Speaker 1: wherever I mean once once again I would say no.

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Speaker 1: I would say I think even the Ukraine and the

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Speaker 1: military know themselves, but they couldn't keep an offensive of

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Speaker 1: that size of secret and we like the support from

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Speaker 1: you and troops of peacekeeping troops, You're not it's not

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Speaker 1: going to be effective. They're not going to be able

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Speaker 1: to do anything. You know. It's not like they can

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Speaker 1: march themselves in there without the spot from the west.

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Speaker 1: And I believe that's the Parashenko's latest attempted at all,

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Speaker 1: this you know, martial law, which was just a complete joke.

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Speaker 1: When I heard it, I was just laughing. You know,

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Speaker 1: you've been a warking for you. That's why I declared it. Now,

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Speaker 1: these latest screams from Parashenko ridiculous from honest, Well why

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Speaker 1: is he declaring martial I'm nothing to you. From honest,

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Speaker 1: it's just a drum up a bit of interest in

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Speaker 1: his campaign. He wants to people his presidence, he wants

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Speaker 1: to try and make it out like he's doing something,

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Speaker 1: but it's too little too late, and that's the reality.

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Speaker 1: He's not he's not fit for you, and he is

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Speaker 1: one of the he has been and if not is

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Speaker 1: one of the most important parts. You need to get

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Speaker 1: rid of him if you want to move forward. Well,

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Speaker 1: that's been one of the main questions about Ukraine moving forward.

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Speaker 1: Isn't it that there's this sort of endemic corruption throughout

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Speaker 1: the Ukrainian government itself? M absolutely absolutely. I mean your

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Speaker 1: plans incredibly corrupt. I don't know the set of the

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Speaker 1: Anti corruption Bureau, and it's doing it's best to deal

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Speaker 1: with some, but the reality is it's a heavily, heavily

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Speaker 1: corrupted place. You know, probably one of the most croup

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Speaker 1: punters in the world. So you can only imagine what

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Speaker 1: politics is like that. Jeez. So again I'm just trying

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Speaker 1: to probe your thoughts a little bit on you know,

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Speaker 1: how this is going to play out of the next

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Speaker 1: couple of years. I mean, what what do you see

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Speaker 1: happening there? Like I said, I I have too serious

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Speaker 1: to what's really going to go down there. If we

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Speaker 1: can indeed get rid of say Parashenkosko, they get a

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Speaker 1: government in but because ultimately we can't go toward Pressia.

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Speaker 1: You just can't. That's not going to end on for

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Speaker 1: anybody that's involved. But ultimately, you plan as a sovereign

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Speaker 1: country and it should be allowed to retake the don

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Speaker 1: Bass region. But that's the only way this can read,

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Speaker 1: this can really work. I think Russia has to understand, look, okay,

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Speaker 1: you've got Crimea, and this is gonna sound very drastic

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Speaker 1: and very harsh. Let them have Primeia for now, Let

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Speaker 1: the Ukraine and people take to don Match, let them

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Speaker 1: heal that area, and then I's focus on creating some

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Speaker 1: sort of dialogue with the Moscow government and maybe we

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Speaker 1: can go forward from that. I don't believe military actions

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Speaker 1: to way forward here, absolutely not one of dealing with

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Speaker 1: you know, a small terrorist group or a small organization,

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Speaker 1: with dealing with with Russia, which is indeed a powerful

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Speaker 1: enemy you And there's huge political risk for any Western

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Speaker 1: country to try and weigh into this mess because once again,

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Speaker 1: you're not dealing with a group, You're dealing with a

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Speaker 1: very powerful, very large country. So I think there has

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Speaker 1: to be a win and the loss on both sides.

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Speaker 1: Somebody has to win something and somebody has to lose something.

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Speaker 1: It's the only way these two countries are ever gonna,

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Speaker 1: I would say, connect again is if somebody wins something

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Speaker 1: and somebody loses something, do you see the OSC is

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Speaker 1: playing any role in that? Absolutely not. I mean I

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Speaker 1: think it's pretty clear on myself from and I understand

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Speaker 1: with all the right intentions, but that they are there.

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Speaker 1: But once again, the OSSE is a complete monumental way

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Speaker 1: of the time. You know, if you can only monitor

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Speaker 1: one side of a conflict, then I fail to see

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Speaker 1: what information and to gether them and to be bringing it.

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Speaker 1: If all you can comment on is what the U

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Speaker 1: trainings are doing, how does that help the U trainings?

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Speaker 1: Can you guys give some moment to what the Russians

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Speaker 1: to do and it's it's backwards. Could could you guys

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Speaker 1: give some background on on what the OSC is there

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Speaker 1: ces Basically, it's an organization. The unit exists within It's

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Speaker 1: literally the unit exists within the EU. And the idea

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Speaker 1: is that these people go and monitor of conflict and

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Speaker 1: are meant to be there. I say, buffer slash and

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Speaker 1: how can I put it? My mind's gone mind now

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Speaker 1: Mentally that is like a deterrent and they comment on

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Speaker 1: the conflict and let the EU and U and no,

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Speaker 1: and let let basically let the rest of the world

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Speaker 1: know what's happened in the disconflict, and they try to

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Speaker 1: de escalate the situation. The report and I think they

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Speaker 1: believe they fall underneath the Minsk Agreement as well, you know,

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Speaker 1: so that they can help political headsheds make the right

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Speaker 1: decisions and what's really happen in any stew print. But

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Speaker 1: like I said, you don't get one off of the story,

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Speaker 1: so I failed to see who that advising. You know, essentially,

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Speaker 1: they're just forward observers in a non military room reporting

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Speaker 1: back on how many artilleries likes there have been, how

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Speaker 1: many small arms engagements has been, what's the movement of

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Speaker 1: heavy weapons in the area, you know, etcetera, etcetera, etcetera.

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Speaker 1: But they can only wanted to the Ukrainians. It's just

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Speaker 1: a it's just a monumental waste of time. Like like

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Speaker 1: I said, I really don't see why that. It's incredible

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Speaker 1: to me um that there are it appears to be

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Speaker 1: two separate standards being applied in the sense that you know, say,

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Speaker 1: when the United States invaded Iraq in two thousand and three,

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Speaker 1: you had, you know, protests, you know, this is illegal

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Speaker 1: under international law, the condemnations, etcetera, etcetera. But then when

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Speaker 1: you have Russia engaging in this aggressive territory expansion. It's

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Speaker 1: not to say that no one says anything about it,

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Speaker 1: but it seems like the international community kind of shrugs

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Speaker 1: at it and doesn't really care in a way that

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Speaker 1: they get quite animated when the United States UM does

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Speaker 1: something like that that they don't like. I guess that's out,

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Speaker 1: you know, that's I will look on it, and our

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Speaker 1: perspective on it is that we only see in for instance,

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Speaker 1: the American invasion of Iraq, we as western as Western

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Speaker 1: is in the Western media outlets come into the apartments

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Speaker 1: to say it from an East point point of view,

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Speaker 1: how they viewed Rush's annexation of Crimea. I know that

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Speaker 1: there are quite a few pins check Republic, Poland and

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Speaker 1: Stony of Finland. They do quite They do report on

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Speaker 1: the Ukrainian conflict quite a bit, as it's close to them. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: you know, once again, Western outlets, you're right, didn't really

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Speaker 1: kick up with us about it. It was a little

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Speaker 1: bit in twenty four then beyond that it just sort

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Speaker 1: of disappeared for you know, for a very long time.

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Speaker 1: We just chose to forget about it. And I agree

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Speaker 1: with you. It's like the Western the Western world just

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Speaker 1: when we're not really interested in that. But like you say,

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Speaker 1: and when they invaded the Rock, everybody kicks at the fuss.

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Speaker 1: I don't know if if when Russia invaded Trimer and

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Speaker 1: Alex Premier, if inside Russia there was a big force

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Speaker 1: and a big kick up about it across US a month,

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Speaker 1: probably not due to the next the country in the

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Speaker 1: words run and but I agree with it. It just

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Speaker 1: seems just seems to me it's been relatively annoyed. I

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Speaker 1: think there's also an aspect of it that you know,

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Speaker 1: the American public, the Western world really we've been propagandized

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Speaker 1: pretty heavily since nine eleven um about the gee hottest threat,

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Speaker 1: the Islamic terrorist threats. So I think we understand, um,

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Speaker 1: you know, fighting je hottests in Afghanistan or the Taliban,

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Speaker 1: or even fighting groups like ISIS. I think we can

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Speaker 1: kind of wrap our minds around that. But then when

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Speaker 1: it comes to these um to the young your generation today, um,

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Speaker 1: you know people who are saying my age are younger. Um,

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Speaker 1: they start looking at a conflict in Ukraine where you

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Speaker 1: have state powers fighting one another, or you look at

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Speaker 1: what's happening in the South China see with the Chinese

428
00:25:13,680 --> 00:25:18,960
Speaker 1: government again engaging in an aggressive territory expansion against sovereign

429
00:25:19,000 --> 00:25:23,040
Speaker 1: states like the Philippines. And I think like psychologically, like

430
00:25:23,119 --> 00:25:26,160
Speaker 1: we don't quite know what to do with that um

431
00:25:26,200 --> 00:25:31,199
Speaker 1: in a way that Islamic terrorism is a readily identifiable threat,

432
00:25:31,280 --> 00:25:34,800
Speaker 1: but threats emanating from Russia or China or something that

433
00:25:35,000 --> 00:25:39,080
Speaker 1: I just feel like psychologically we have some difficulty wrapping

434
00:25:39,119 --> 00:25:44,040
Speaker 1: our minds around what's happening there. Absolutely, you know, I

435
00:25:44,080 --> 00:25:46,720
Speaker 1: agree with you. It's it's one of those things we've

436
00:25:46,760 --> 00:25:50,160
Speaker 1: been so heavily focused on fighting is counter insurgency camp ins,

437
00:25:50,680 --> 00:25:53,359
Speaker 1: and like it's been so it's been in the media

438
00:25:53,520 --> 00:25:57,520
Speaker 1: from from the adults even til now. You know, Islamic terrorism,

439
00:25:57,560 --> 00:25:59,479
Speaker 1: Islamic terrorism, Islam and you know, and we feel as

440
00:25:59,480 --> 00:26:01,119
Speaker 1: that we can deal with that threat, but when we

441
00:26:01,160 --> 00:26:02,920
Speaker 1: look at something like this stiually we don't want really

442
00:26:02,920 --> 00:26:05,159
Speaker 1: how to deal with that because you have you have

443
00:26:05,280 --> 00:26:08,879
Speaker 1: never really dealt with it before, you know, in modern times.

444
00:26:09,400 --> 00:26:11,560
Speaker 1: And this is this is another thing that people, you know,

445
00:26:11,640 --> 00:26:15,760
Speaker 1: really misunderstand, is just how complex the situation there's a

446
00:26:15,800 --> 00:26:19,080
Speaker 1: new plane. From a military aspect, I mean, we've always

447
00:26:19,080 --> 00:26:21,880
Speaker 1: thought laws in which we dominated the airspace. That's just one.

448
00:26:22,640 --> 00:26:25,800
Speaker 1: We wouldn't dominate the air space there, so you know,

449
00:26:26,040 --> 00:26:29,600
Speaker 1: forget your patches taken out, you know, little groups and

450
00:26:29,720 --> 00:26:32,320
Speaker 1: miles like that's it's not going to happen. And then

451
00:26:32,359 --> 00:26:35,480
Speaker 1: the electronical measures as well, electronic measures and counter measures

452
00:26:35,520 --> 00:26:38,159
Speaker 1: that are in place down there. You know, that's something

453
00:26:38,240 --> 00:26:41,960
Speaker 1: that we've not really came up against that sophisticated, you know,

454
00:26:42,600 --> 00:26:45,159
Speaker 1: and we haven't came up against this, let's say a

455
00:26:45,240 --> 00:26:49,840
Speaker 1: conventional fight that are equally trained men on the other side,

456
00:26:50,760 --> 00:26:53,720
Speaker 1: you know, that have access to equally the same amounts

457
00:26:53,840 --> 00:26:55,720
Speaker 1: kid that we have. You know, your name, a piece

458
00:26:55,720 --> 00:26:59,120
Speaker 1: of kids. They've got it, m g vs. Thermals, drones,

459
00:27:00,000 --> 00:27:04,000
Speaker 1: the artillery firepower alone is something that we've never had

460
00:27:04,040 --> 00:27:06,440
Speaker 1: to deal with. So you've got all these things that

461
00:27:06,480 --> 00:27:08,840
Speaker 1: we've never dealt with and we know are very very lethal,

462
00:27:10,600 --> 00:27:12,920
Speaker 1: and we have no experience of how to deal with it.

463
00:27:13,480 --> 00:27:15,199
Speaker 1: And this is why I laugh when we always when

464
00:27:15,240 --> 00:27:17,399
Speaker 1: you see in mainstream media what the UK send an

465
00:27:17,440 --> 00:27:20,680
Speaker 1: advisors to Ukraine or the US and an advisor to Ukraine.

466
00:27:21,440 --> 00:27:25,639
Speaker 1: I mean, what are the advisors on because our definitely

467
00:27:25,680 --> 00:27:28,880
Speaker 1: it's and our manuals so far at all about counting insurgency.

468
00:27:30,240 --> 00:27:33,399
Speaker 1: You know, we're coming up against an entirely new threat

469
00:27:34,160 --> 00:27:35,639
Speaker 1: and especially but like you said, with the gage of

470
00:27:35,680 --> 00:27:37,120
Speaker 1: some of these guys, I mean some of these younger

471
00:27:37,119 --> 00:27:39,879
Speaker 1: guys that have been sent there as advisors. You know

472
00:27:39,880 --> 00:27:41,640
Speaker 1: that I've maybe done one two of Afghan or two

473
00:27:41,640 --> 00:27:44,639
Speaker 1: twos of Afghan and then that was towards the back

474
00:27:44,720 --> 00:27:46,159
Speaker 1: end of the day because all the senior had to

475
00:27:46,160 --> 00:27:48,720
Speaker 1: getting out. Now as well, now you're allder lots of

476
00:27:48,720 --> 00:27:50,920
Speaker 1: between sergeant sergeant Mergers, I mean, that will leave them.

477
00:27:51,000 --> 00:27:53,359
Speaker 1: They've all reached that twenty two and done. So what

478
00:27:53,440 --> 00:27:56,840
Speaker 1: do these guys more about fighting a conventional war? They're

479
00:27:56,840 --> 00:28:00,680
Speaker 1: not relatively little, so you know, I fail to see

480
00:28:00,680 --> 00:28:02,119
Speaker 1: what our advices are going to do that as well.

481
00:28:02,160 --> 00:28:03,719
Speaker 1: If anything, we should be going there and learning from

482
00:28:03,720 --> 00:28:07,000
Speaker 1: the Ukrainians. That's what I think we should be doing,

483
00:28:08,720 --> 00:28:13,359
Speaker 1: taking lessons learned from from the conflict and starting and

484
00:28:13,400 --> 00:28:18,000
Speaker 1: applying that to see how we can adapt to that. Well.

485
00:28:18,160 --> 00:28:20,080
Speaker 1: You know, for instance, I know one of the one

486
00:28:20,080 --> 00:28:22,360
Speaker 1: of the last pieces was about sending British advisors down

487
00:28:22,400 --> 00:28:27,520
Speaker 1: there to teach Ukrainians about trench warfare. I mean, as

488
00:28:27,560 --> 00:28:30,680
Speaker 1: a former member of the British Army we did afford

489
00:28:30,720 --> 00:28:35,119
Speaker 1: it exercising which we spent a trench. These Ukrainians have

490
00:28:35,359 --> 00:28:38,840
Speaker 1: lived in trenches pretty much for four years. We should

491
00:28:38,840 --> 00:28:41,040
Speaker 1: be coming down there and asking then how you deal

492
00:28:41,120 --> 00:28:44,280
Speaker 1: with living in trench because it's grim and all times

493
00:28:44,680 --> 00:28:46,840
Speaker 1: it's grim, whether it's the winter, whether it's the summer,

494
00:28:47,120 --> 00:28:49,080
Speaker 1: it's just grim. So what what do we really know

495
00:28:49,120 --> 00:28:51,440
Speaker 1: about trench warfare? I mean they're the ones that are

496
00:28:51,440 --> 00:28:54,320
Speaker 1: the other ones have experienced it, have a team amount

497
00:28:54,320 --> 00:28:58,040
Speaker 1: of experience in not four days spent in breckon our

498
00:28:58,120 --> 00:29:00,200
Speaker 1: saltary plans here in the UK, just children by it

499
00:29:00,280 --> 00:29:02,959
Speaker 1: and blanks. These guys have been getting shelter pieces before us,

500
00:29:03,440 --> 00:29:06,000
Speaker 1: you know, inside the trenches. If anything we should be

501
00:29:06,000 --> 00:29:09,280
Speaker 1: going down then I'm asking them what's it link? I

502
00:29:09,400 --> 00:29:14,720
Speaker 1: totally agree, um it's it's an important point because we

503
00:29:14,880 --> 00:29:18,560
Speaker 1: send our Special Forces soldiers all over the world and

504
00:29:18,600 --> 00:29:20,719
Speaker 1: what we do is we try to train the local

505
00:29:20,760 --> 00:29:25,280
Speaker 1: forces in accordance with UM, you know, our Army Infantry

506
00:29:25,320 --> 00:29:29,400
Speaker 1: field manuals or the Ranger Handbook, and our doctrine is

507
00:29:29,480 --> 00:29:34,479
Speaker 1: written for the American military. It's um. It's written with

508
00:29:34,520 --> 00:29:38,680
Speaker 1: the idea of doing combined arms attacks where you have

509
00:29:39,160 --> 00:29:41,800
Speaker 1: air support, where you have artillery, where you have this

510
00:29:41,920 --> 00:29:46,280
Speaker 1: logistics train behind you. And when Special Forces goes into

511
00:29:46,760 --> 00:29:48,880
Speaker 1: you know, a place in Africa or in the Middle

512
00:29:48,880 --> 00:29:53,560
Speaker 1: East or wherever, you're training locals who don't have access

513
00:29:53,560 --> 00:29:57,080
Speaker 1: to all of that. So our tactics need to adapt

514
00:29:57,160 --> 00:30:00,680
Speaker 1: to the local situation. Like, if you want to learn

515
00:30:00,720 --> 00:30:04,600
Speaker 1: about guerilla warfare, Um, really, what's the point of talking

516
00:30:04,640 --> 00:30:08,640
Speaker 1: to an American Special Forces soldier. They today's SF guys

517
00:30:08,680 --> 00:30:11,320
Speaker 1: really know very little about guerilla warfare. I mean, yes,

518
00:30:11,360 --> 00:30:14,680
Speaker 1: they go through the Robin Sage exercise, but the average

519
00:30:14,720 --> 00:30:18,360
Speaker 1: Special Forces soldier, the vast majority of them are have

520
00:30:18,480 --> 00:30:21,800
Speaker 1: been living on American forward operating bases where they have

521
00:30:22,480 --> 00:30:24,760
Speaker 1: you know, the gym and the chow hall and all

522
00:30:24,760 --> 00:30:27,200
Speaker 1: this stuff. Where they have you know, they can call

523
00:30:27,240 --> 00:30:30,120
Speaker 1: on Apache gun ships whenever they're get into trouble. So

524
00:30:30,160 --> 00:30:32,160
Speaker 1: if you want to learn about guerilla warfare, you know,

525
00:30:32,440 --> 00:30:34,840
Speaker 1: go talk to the Kurds. Uh, they know how to

526
00:30:34,840 --> 00:30:40,000
Speaker 1: wage guerilla warfare. Americans don't really do that. No, absolutely,

527
00:30:40,000 --> 00:30:42,080
Speaker 1: and I think that's one of the I mean, that

528
00:30:42,120 --> 00:30:44,560
Speaker 1: was one of the Green brist main mission, wasn't it

529
00:30:44,600 --> 00:30:49,240
Speaker 1: back in the day, was themselves in camp and then damage.

530
00:30:49,240 --> 00:30:50,680
Speaker 1: And I thought that's what they could do. But then

531
00:30:50,720 --> 00:30:55,280
Speaker 1: once again, they haven't been doing. You know, for the

532
00:30:55,320 --> 00:30:57,360
Speaker 1: best of my language, they haven't been embedding themselves in

533
00:30:57,400 --> 00:31:01,200
Speaker 1: missuge training from conflict and you know, living and breathing

534
00:31:01,200 --> 00:31:04,280
Speaker 1: with these guys to see the realities of this conflict

535
00:31:04,320 --> 00:31:07,000
Speaker 1: and how complex of a situation is, and then coming

536
00:31:07,000 --> 00:31:08,840
Speaker 1: back and saying, right, we need to have a specialized

537
00:31:08,880 --> 00:31:11,520
Speaker 1: department focusing on this. That's not what they're doing, because

538
00:31:11,560 --> 00:31:16,360
Speaker 1: once again we're still so heavily focused on terrorism and

539
00:31:16,440 --> 00:31:21,440
Speaker 1: the insurgency only small groups. And you know, I mean

540
00:31:21,440 --> 00:31:24,400
Speaker 1: about sending advisors to Ukraine. I just think from almost

541
00:31:24,400 --> 00:31:29,680
Speaker 1: every aspects useless because no matter what you implement, no

542
00:31:29,720 --> 00:31:31,880
Speaker 1: matter how good your yes, you can you can have

543
00:31:31,920 --> 00:31:35,720
Speaker 1: the standardization of the training. You know, so shooting tactics,

544
00:31:36,120 --> 00:31:38,000
Speaker 1: teach them all to these wonderful things, but then when

545
00:31:38,000 --> 00:31:39,840
Speaker 1: they get down to the front line, and you didn't

546
00:31:39,840 --> 00:31:42,680
Speaker 1: one of the most heavily mined areas in the world

547
00:31:43,280 --> 00:31:46,880
Speaker 1: in close proximity of hundreds of three meters, with all

548
00:31:46,920 --> 00:31:49,560
Speaker 1: of the threats that have just mentioned, the artillery, night vision,

549
00:31:49,760 --> 00:31:52,160
Speaker 1: equal forces, all that kind of good stuff, and the

550
00:31:52,160 --> 00:31:53,800
Speaker 1: only thing you can really do is trouts down in

551
00:31:53,840 --> 00:31:56,920
Speaker 1: a trench. All about training and all that wonderful, flashy

552
00:31:56,920 --> 00:32:01,280
Speaker 1: stuff that we see, it's completely useless. No, that's why

553
00:32:01,320 --> 00:32:03,880
Speaker 1: the training needs to be tailored to the partner force

554
00:32:04,200 --> 00:32:08,640
Speaker 1: UM and the tactical situation that they find themselves and UM.

555
00:32:08,680 --> 00:32:11,040
Speaker 1: But on that note, I wanted to ask you about

556
00:32:11,080 --> 00:32:14,520
Speaker 1: the news that's coming out and UM we can well

557
00:32:14,560 --> 00:32:16,040
Speaker 1: I take it with a little bit of a grain

558
00:32:16,080 --> 00:32:18,560
Speaker 1: of salt, because this is about the third time it's

559
00:32:18,560 --> 00:32:23,160
Speaker 1: been announced. But supposedly the Department of Defense, UM, under

560
00:32:23,320 --> 00:32:27,000
Speaker 1: you know, the President Trump's orders, is announcing the rapid

561
00:32:27,040 --> 00:32:31,440
Speaker 1: withdrawal of all American forces from Syria. And uh. And

562
00:32:31,560 --> 00:32:34,480
Speaker 1: you and I actually met in Syria, UM fairly early

563
00:32:34,520 --> 00:32:36,440
Speaker 1: on in the ward, Jamie, So I was wondering if

564
00:32:36,440 --> 00:32:40,440
Speaker 1: I could kind of get your take on that. Um.

565
00:32:40,840 --> 00:32:44,400
Speaker 1: Once again, we're gonna we're gonna be Are we pulling

566
00:32:44,440 --> 00:32:49,680
Speaker 1: out too soon? Absolutely? Are the bigger powers that be there?

567
00:32:49,720 --> 00:32:53,760
Speaker 1: Absolutely could city attending to an Afghanistan or even a

568
00:32:53,880 --> 00:32:59,800
Speaker 1: recollapse like erupted. Absolutely, I think pulling all forces on

569
00:33:00,640 --> 00:33:03,200
Speaker 1: what was it? Was it by next year or no? No,

570
00:33:03,320 --> 00:33:09,560
Speaker 1: they're saying now like it like it is Mr. Yeah,

571
00:33:09,600 --> 00:33:11,720
Speaker 1: well then yeah, you're just leaving yourselves for a disaster.

572
00:33:11,760 --> 00:33:13,440
Speaker 1: I mean, once again, we keep doing this to ourselves,

573
00:33:13,440 --> 00:33:16,080
Speaker 1: don't we. You know, it's just history repeating itself in

574
00:33:16,120 --> 00:33:18,720
Speaker 1: all aspects. You know, we pull out of Afghanistan and

575
00:33:18,840 --> 00:33:20,600
Speaker 1: leave faster pieces. We pull out of your rack. We

576
00:33:20,640 --> 00:33:22,760
Speaker 1: stopped combat operations in the rack. I believe the British did.

577
00:33:22,800 --> 00:33:27,200
Speaker 1: We stopped combat erations, you know, and place it fell

578
00:33:27,240 --> 00:33:30,479
Speaker 1: apartn was over run by I S. So you go

579
00:33:30,520 --> 00:33:32,800
Speaker 1: ahead and pull all your forces out, I mean probably

580
00:33:32,920 --> 00:33:38,320
Speaker 1: most like the Brittle Leaf without you guys as well. Um, yeah,

581
00:33:38,520 --> 00:33:40,400
Speaker 1: he just left us in for a disaster and all

582
00:33:40,480 --> 00:33:43,400
Speaker 1: over again. And we just failed to learn, you know,

583
00:33:43,520 --> 00:33:47,640
Speaker 1: we failed to learn from these little put my large

584
00:33:47,680 --> 00:33:49,600
Speaker 1: and stakes at the same time, you know, by him

585
00:33:49,600 --> 00:33:52,760
Speaker 1: saying we're going to pull out, is that already If

586
00:33:52,920 --> 00:33:54,920
Speaker 1: if I HiT's then ainstream media it's getting around and

587
00:33:54,920 --> 00:33:56,560
Speaker 1: it goes on the channels. Is that going to give

588
00:33:56,640 --> 00:33:59,200
Speaker 1: I s you know, I just trying to do what

589
00:33:59,240 --> 00:34:02,160
Speaker 1: the Taliban did and just dig in with out for

590
00:34:02,200 --> 00:34:05,560
Speaker 1: everyone to leave, and then you just see a resurgence again.

591
00:34:05,600 --> 00:34:08,120
Speaker 1: It's I don't know why we keep doing this complete appointless.

592
00:34:08,520 --> 00:34:10,880
Speaker 1: What I mean I would point out is that you know,

593
00:34:11,040 --> 00:34:15,560
Speaker 1: we left withdrew from Iraq UM during the Obama administration,

594
00:34:16,280 --> 00:34:18,680
Speaker 1: and UM, we we really pulled up stakes. I mean,

595
00:34:18,719 --> 00:34:21,000
Speaker 1: we pulled up everything. We shut down all of our

596
00:34:21,040 --> 00:34:23,880
Speaker 1: intelligence networks over there. I mean it was a complete

597
00:34:23,920 --> 00:34:27,920
Speaker 1: withdraw uh. And then what like two years later, we

598
00:34:28,000 --> 00:34:30,320
Speaker 1: had to go back into Iraq to deal with ISIS

599
00:34:31,040 --> 00:34:36,759
Speaker 1: UM so I UM. And then now in Syria UM,

600
00:34:37,080 --> 00:34:40,120
Speaker 1: in Rejava and Kurdish Syria. You get into the issue

601
00:34:40,160 --> 00:34:44,360
Speaker 1: also that America provides a sort of a buffer for

602
00:34:44,800 --> 00:34:49,000
Speaker 1: a strategic deterrent against Turkey. The country of Turkey to

603
00:34:49,040 --> 00:34:51,520
Speaker 1: the north of Syria is never ever going to accept

604
00:34:51,560 --> 00:34:55,360
Speaker 1: a Kurdish state UM on their southern border because of

605
00:34:55,400 --> 00:34:57,920
Speaker 1: their long running fight with the p k K and

606
00:34:58,000 --> 00:35:04,759
Speaker 1: other Kurdish insurgent groups UM. So much like American American

607
00:35:04,800 --> 00:35:08,880
Speaker 1: forces UM we have stationed in the Baltics states. Let's

608
00:35:09,000 --> 00:35:11,440
Speaker 1: the in that case, let's the Russians. No, Look, if

609
00:35:11,440 --> 00:35:14,200
Speaker 1: you invade this country, you're going to be fighting America.

610
00:35:14,800 --> 00:35:17,760
Speaker 1: The fact that we have Americans in Syria, in northern

611
00:35:17,800 --> 00:35:21,239
Speaker 1: Syria tells the Turks listen, if you invade, you're going

612
00:35:21,280 --> 00:35:25,640
Speaker 1: to be fighting America. UM, so don't fucking around. Um,

613
00:35:25,920 --> 00:35:27,840
Speaker 1: I think it's not it's not just it's not just

614
00:35:27,880 --> 00:35:29,400
Speaker 1: the Turks in that Eddy, But Jack, and you have

615
00:35:29,440 --> 00:35:31,960
Speaker 1: to read about the Iranian influence as well, you know,

616
00:35:32,440 --> 00:35:34,920
Speaker 1: and on what part that will have to play, particularly

617
00:35:34,960 --> 00:35:39,400
Speaker 1: within the Iraqi path. Such an influence on the region.

618
00:35:39,440 --> 00:35:42,480
Speaker 1: I mean, even as far as possible, it has an influence.

619
00:35:43,440 --> 00:35:47,720
Speaker 1: And I'll be really worried if I was the Kurds. Yeah.

620
00:35:47,239 --> 00:35:50,239
Speaker 1: All this really tells me is something in't for a

621
00:35:50,360 --> 00:35:55,160
Speaker 1: really really hard trying And you said, no, I'm never

622
00:35:55,280 --> 00:35:57,640
Speaker 1: going to accept the sovereignstead. They're just not. I don't

623
00:35:57,640 --> 00:35:59,160
Speaker 1: think the iraqis worm. I don't think the city and

624
00:35:59,239 --> 00:36:02,200
Speaker 1: regime mill along the terms will and the only peace

625
00:36:02,200 --> 00:36:11,399
Speaker 1: of mind becaudes cover right now goes just econoge again. Well,

626
00:36:11,440 --> 00:36:15,040
Speaker 1: I think you, um, you definitely hit on the ulterior

627
00:36:15,160 --> 00:36:18,520
Speaker 1: motive for the United States UM sticking around, which is

628
00:36:18,560 --> 00:36:21,399
Speaker 1: Iran and I think that's like almost yes, it has

629
00:36:21,440 --> 00:36:24,000
Speaker 1: been you know, publicly announced like we're going to stay

630
00:36:24,040 --> 00:36:27,759
Speaker 1: in Syria until the Iranians get out of Syria. UM.

631
00:36:28,880 --> 00:36:31,960
Speaker 1: So I mean we're we're oscillating between these two positions.

632
00:36:32,000 --> 00:36:33,759
Speaker 1: Like I said, it's this is probably like the third

633
00:36:33,800 --> 00:36:38,319
Speaker 1: time we've announced that we're withdrawing from Syria. UM. If

634
00:36:38,400 --> 00:36:41,040
Speaker 1: I just give my my personal opinion about you know,

635
00:36:41,120 --> 00:36:44,160
Speaker 1: our presence there, I think that we have about two

636
00:36:44,160 --> 00:36:48,080
Speaker 1: thousand people in Syria right now, two thousand soldiers uh.

637
00:36:48,239 --> 00:36:51,040
Speaker 1: For to my mind, that's too many. I don't think

638
00:36:51,040 --> 00:36:53,719
Speaker 1: that we should be um over there trying to establish

639
00:36:53,800 --> 00:36:56,919
Speaker 1: like mega fobs like we we've done previously. I don't

640
00:36:56,920 --> 00:37:00,839
Speaker 1: think we need a large footprint. I would look at

641
00:37:01,040 --> 00:37:05,000
Speaker 1: keeping a Special Forces Company UM in Syria. So six

642
00:37:05,040 --> 00:37:07,440
Speaker 1: O d A s uh those are that would be

643
00:37:07,520 --> 00:37:11,480
Speaker 1: six twelve man special Forces teams distributed across the area

644
00:37:11,800 --> 00:37:14,680
Speaker 1: UM working with the Kurds, and I would keep them

645
00:37:14,680 --> 00:37:17,960
Speaker 1: there until the Kurds um the p y d UM

646
00:37:18,200 --> 00:37:21,400
Speaker 1: and then you know they're the SDF. The whole apparatus

647
00:37:21,800 --> 00:37:27,719
Speaker 1: negotiates their reentry into the Sovereign Nation of Syria, which

648
00:37:27,760 --> 00:37:30,200
Speaker 1: is going to take a while for the Syrian government

649
00:37:30,239 --> 00:37:33,000
Speaker 1: to put that puzzle back together. Um, if it can

650
00:37:33,040 --> 00:37:36,279
Speaker 1: ever even do it. But I think that that would

651
00:37:36,280 --> 00:37:37,600
Speaker 1: be if it were up to me, that would be

652
00:37:37,640 --> 00:37:40,840
Speaker 1: our strategic long game. There would be Okay, we're sticking

653
00:37:40,880 --> 00:37:44,080
Speaker 1: around until the Kurds negotiate their re entry into the

654
00:37:44,080 --> 00:37:47,560
Speaker 1: Syrian country, into the Syrian state, and then we're gonna

655
00:37:47,640 --> 00:37:51,480
Speaker 1: withdraw out of the country. Um, I think the rapid

656
00:37:51,560 --> 00:37:56,200
Speaker 1: withdraw no go ahead. Jamie Also, I wasna absolutely agree.

657
00:37:56,239 --> 00:37:58,120
Speaker 1: I would believe I would. I would actually I'm going

658
00:37:58,200 --> 00:37:59,719
Speaker 1: to put a bit more than a company in. And

659
00:38:00,160 --> 00:38:03,040
Speaker 1: how you feel about special operations, I think I think

660
00:38:03,760 --> 00:38:07,719
Speaker 1: I've lost the heritage of conducting or small little operations

661
00:38:07,719 --> 00:38:10,719
Speaker 1: that they absolutely have, you know, six teams. I don't

662
00:38:10,760 --> 00:38:13,080
Speaker 1: know if it would be something that'll be quite up

663
00:38:13,080 --> 00:38:14,840
Speaker 1: to right now. So I'd believe the likes of a

664
00:38:14,960 --> 00:38:17,120
Speaker 1: range of battalion or at least have them close by,

665
00:38:17,160 --> 00:38:19,560
Speaker 1: or at least a company ranges with them, just to

666
00:38:19,560 --> 00:38:21,480
Speaker 1: support them in the event ship does hit the fan.

667
00:38:22,000 --> 00:38:25,000
Speaker 1: We've seen how small teams, particularly that incident in Nija,

668
00:38:26,080 --> 00:38:29,000
Speaker 1: you know, things can and rather pretty quickly. I believe

669
00:38:29,040 --> 00:38:31,920
Speaker 1: they would need a bit more support than absolutely. I

670
00:38:31,960 --> 00:38:35,520
Speaker 1: would definitely some SR elements in there, you know, so

671
00:38:35,600 --> 00:38:39,400
Speaker 1: we can just keep a situation of those Special Operations

672
00:38:39,400 --> 00:38:42,480
Speaker 1: teams there, but I'll have them pretty close together, and

673
00:38:42,560 --> 00:38:46,319
Speaker 1: I definitely have at least a light reaction such as

674
00:38:46,360 --> 00:38:49,680
Speaker 1: the ranges close by, just so we didn't have any

675
00:38:50,719 --> 00:38:55,239
Speaker 1: incidence like that of NIJA. Yeah, some sort of q

676
00:38:55,440 --> 00:38:58,799
Speaker 1: RF to have, you know, some ass behind it to

677
00:38:59,080 --> 00:39:03,480
Speaker 1: back things up. Um. I don't Rangers don't necessarily go

678
00:39:03,600 --> 00:39:05,799
Speaker 1: for the long term deployments, but I mean they have

679
00:39:05,920 --> 00:39:08,960
Speaker 1: been over there so um, rotating in and out, just

680
00:39:09,040 --> 00:39:12,279
Speaker 1: small groups of them. Um. But yeah, I mean some

681
00:39:12,360 --> 00:39:14,560
Speaker 1: sort of you know, small footprint. I mean, you're you're

682
00:39:14,640 --> 00:39:18,000
Speaker 1: right that Special Forces has kind of lost the heritage

683
00:39:18,000 --> 00:39:19,719
Speaker 1: of that, you know, the whole idea of you know,

684
00:39:19,760 --> 00:39:22,760
Speaker 1: we're going to parachute a twelve man team behind enemy

685
00:39:22,800 --> 00:39:25,480
Speaker 1: lines and you're gonna link up with partisan forces and

686
00:39:25,840 --> 00:39:28,839
Speaker 1: wage on conventional warfare. I mean, that's like I think

687
00:39:28,840 --> 00:39:31,080
Speaker 1: of the past. Now, I don't. I don't think people

688
00:39:31,120 --> 00:39:34,960
Speaker 1: really it's in the doctrine, it's it's part of the mission,

689
00:39:35,040 --> 00:39:37,040
Speaker 1: But as far as actually going and doing that, I

690
00:39:37,120 --> 00:39:41,200
Speaker 1: just don't see it happening today. That's that's what's the

691
00:39:41,200 --> 00:39:44,879
Speaker 1: reality of the apple of the heritage of this. There's

692
00:39:44,880 --> 00:39:48,200
Speaker 1: no coreal I don't think in sailment and due to

693
00:39:48,560 --> 00:39:50,640
Speaker 1: due to the nature in which they have been used

694
00:39:50,680 --> 00:39:54,000
Speaker 1: on you know, ten fifteen years. So I think leaving

695
00:39:54,040 --> 00:39:56,359
Speaker 1: them on their own kind of wing supported with this

696
00:39:56,960 --> 00:40:00,279
Speaker 1: indigenous force, I think paulsy is a huge risk to

697
00:40:00,480 --> 00:40:04,160
Speaker 1: those lot of that, but at some points it has

698
00:40:04,200 --> 00:40:05,520
Speaker 1: to be done as well and all the forces to

699
00:40:05,560 --> 00:40:08,240
Speaker 1: gain that experience. Yeah, you know, you can't keep shining

700
00:40:08,320 --> 00:40:09,759
Speaker 1: we from the fun that we want to protect. Our

701
00:40:09,760 --> 00:40:14,359
Speaker 1: guys are deployed and absolutely they should. It's a it's

702
00:40:14,400 --> 00:40:17,920
Speaker 1: definitely a cultural issue. UM. It's how things have changed

703
00:40:17,960 --> 00:40:21,920
Speaker 1: over the course of the Global War on Terror. UM. Also,

704
00:40:22,400 --> 00:40:25,239
Speaker 1: I mean we've tried to mass produce special forces. We

705
00:40:25,320 --> 00:40:29,200
Speaker 1: have pretty poor retention rates UM, which results in a

706
00:40:29,320 --> 00:40:32,400
Speaker 1: very young force. So you have teams that are composed

707
00:40:32,440 --> 00:40:35,440
Speaker 1: mostly of you know, twenty two year old guys. UM.

708
00:40:35,480 --> 00:40:38,520
Speaker 1: And that kind of is what it is, UM. But

709
00:40:38,600 --> 00:40:40,319
Speaker 1: it's a it's a far cry from back in the

710
00:40:40,360 --> 00:40:42,680
Speaker 1: old days where you could deploy an No d A

711
00:40:42,880 --> 00:40:45,839
Speaker 1: to the Congo or to Pakistan and it would remain

712
00:40:45,920 --> 00:40:48,520
Speaker 1: clandestine in secret, and no one would ever know about

713
00:40:48,560 --> 00:40:52,040
Speaker 1: it because we didn't have the Internet and smartphones and

714
00:40:52,080 --> 00:40:56,719
Speaker 1: everything else. Um. You know, back in the day, um

715
00:40:56,840 --> 00:41:00,200
Speaker 1: we had you know, like Special Forces Detachment A was

716
00:41:00,239 --> 00:41:04,279
Speaker 1: in Berlin and they were conducting espionage, um or are

717
00:41:04,400 --> 00:41:11,720
Speaker 1: preparing the conduct acts of sabotage against Soviet occupied Berlin,

718
00:41:12,880 --> 00:41:16,279
Speaker 1: West Berlin or East Berlin. I'm sorry, it's not it's

719
00:41:16,320 --> 00:41:18,360
Speaker 1: not just a Special Forces on mean, even our you

720
00:41:18,400 --> 00:41:22,320
Speaker 1: know intelligence apperatsis lost its ability to conduct human operations.

721
00:41:22,360 --> 00:41:25,080
Speaker 1: That's another thing. You know, if we look at the

722
00:41:25,080 --> 00:41:29,600
Speaker 1: Cold Warden, it was all spy games, you know. Now

723
00:41:30,840 --> 00:41:35,000
Speaker 1: you know it's just analysts. You know, we're getting you know,

724
00:41:35,080 --> 00:41:38,240
Speaker 1: people from the likes of Afghanistan and you know, collecting

725
00:41:38,280 --> 00:41:40,840
Speaker 1: sources as such, in developing sources which are just local

726
00:41:40,880 --> 00:41:44,560
Speaker 1: civilians and then relying on that information and analyzing it

727
00:41:44,880 --> 00:41:47,200
Speaker 1: and given our best speel on it. No one's really

728
00:41:47,200 --> 00:41:49,960
Speaker 1: out there on the ground keeping an eye on things

729
00:41:50,000 --> 00:41:51,920
Speaker 1: like what was done back in the day. Not nearly

730
00:41:52,000 --> 00:41:56,680
Speaker 1: enough special Forces, you know, it's no where need enough. Um.

731
00:41:56,760 --> 00:41:58,360
Speaker 1: So there's quite there's quite a lot of things that

732
00:41:58,440 --> 00:42:04,680
Speaker 1: would need to change overall, military wise, intelligence wise, you know,

733
00:42:04,920 --> 00:42:07,440
Speaker 1: like I said, the list goes on. As we move

734
00:42:07,520 --> 00:42:09,920
Speaker 1: away from I would say I would't even say we're

735
00:42:09,960 --> 00:42:11,840
Speaker 1: moving away from it. But as we go into this

736
00:42:12,120 --> 00:42:16,120
Speaker 1: next ten of fifteen years, this is where I see

737
00:42:16,120 --> 00:42:19,960
Speaker 1: it being interesting. How do we deal with this Russian conflict?

738
00:42:20,000 --> 00:42:25,239
Speaker 1: How do we deal with these terrorist organizations? And I

739
00:42:25,239 --> 00:42:28,160
Speaker 1: don't think we can solely rely on the you know,

740
00:42:28,560 --> 00:42:31,120
Speaker 1: the US Special operations to deal with all of that.

741
00:42:31,480 --> 00:42:34,400
Speaker 1: I don't think we can rely on the UK Special operator.

742
00:42:34,400 --> 00:42:39,120
Speaker 1: We don't have nowhere near enough manpower two to do anything.

743
00:42:39,160 --> 00:42:41,240
Speaker 1: So we have to start thinking outside of this old

744
00:42:41,280 --> 00:42:43,319
Speaker 1: box that we've been in of relying on the US,

745
00:42:43,360 --> 00:42:47,600
Speaker 1: relying on the UK, relying on France and you know countries.

746
00:42:47,760 --> 00:42:52,000
Speaker 1: I'm honest, they need to start looking after themselves, which

747
00:42:52,880 --> 00:42:54,520
Speaker 1: is hard given that we've put so much money in

748
00:42:54,520 --> 00:42:57,399
Speaker 1: Afghanistan and those forces and then and they're not doing

749
00:42:57,440 --> 00:43:01,040
Speaker 1: too great at the moment. Let's be honest, And it's

750
00:43:01,080 --> 00:43:03,280
Speaker 1: hard to see how these next time or fifteen years

751
00:43:03,320 --> 00:43:06,600
Speaker 1: are really going to share and how how it's going

752
00:43:06,640 --> 00:43:08,480
Speaker 1: to work out for somebody's countries that are suffer them

753
00:43:08,480 --> 00:43:12,920
Speaker 1: like you pray, like Nigeria, like Afghanistan, and like Citia

754
00:43:13,000 --> 00:43:17,880
Speaker 1: will doubtably do. Yeah, it's interesting to see how you know,

755
00:43:17,960 --> 00:43:20,319
Speaker 1: the the election of Donald Trump I felt felt like

756
00:43:20,360 --> 00:43:22,040
Speaker 1: it was kind of like a shock to the world

757
00:43:22,200 --> 00:43:24,040
Speaker 1: system in a way that all of a sudden, all

758
00:43:24,120 --> 00:43:26,439
Speaker 1: these countries start looking and they're like, oh my god,

759
00:43:26,560 --> 00:43:29,839
Speaker 1: America might not be there for us. And it's like, well,

760
00:43:29,880 --> 00:43:32,360
Speaker 1: and not in all cases, but in a lot of cases,

761
00:43:32,400 --> 00:43:35,279
Speaker 1: you know, people took America for granted. A lot of

762
00:43:35,280 --> 00:43:40,480
Speaker 1: European countries were allowed to prosper under an American security

763
00:43:40,600 --> 00:43:43,760
Speaker 1: umbrella that was guaranteed to them by NATO. They didn't

764
00:43:43,760 --> 00:43:45,719
Speaker 1: have to spend money on defense, so they were able

765
00:43:45,760 --> 00:43:49,000
Speaker 1: to you know, invest it in other places. Uh. And

766
00:43:49,040 --> 00:43:51,759
Speaker 1: then suddenly there's this moment where they're like, oh my god,

767
00:43:51,800 --> 00:43:56,319
Speaker 1: they might not be there anymore. Well, absolutely, and you know,

768
00:43:56,520 --> 00:44:00,120
Speaker 1: not should America you know, have to continue we with

769
00:44:00,200 --> 00:44:02,200
Speaker 1: that strain. And that's not me Spike enough for the

770
00:44:02,040 --> 00:44:05,040
Speaker 1: for the answers I call them, but you know, we shouldn't.

771
00:44:06,040 --> 00:44:07,759
Speaker 1: You know, the rest of the world can't sit there

772
00:44:07,760 --> 00:44:12,080
Speaker 1: and rely on America's help every time just because that's

773
00:44:12,080 --> 00:44:15,160
Speaker 1: how it was. You know, things change time change social Jews.

774
00:44:15,520 --> 00:44:18,280
Speaker 1: One of the ethicals I write today was about Nigerian

775
00:44:18,480 --> 00:44:21,080
Speaker 1: with their latest book or Ameters and literally just finished

776
00:44:21,080 --> 00:44:25,000
Speaker 1: it off before speaking to use. And you know, for

777
00:44:25,040 --> 00:44:28,640
Speaker 1: the love of God, I can't understand why they can't

778
00:44:28,640 --> 00:44:31,879
Speaker 1: deal with this book or Ameter. You know, they had

779
00:44:31,920 --> 00:44:34,920
Speaker 1: steps internationally, they were doing really well, they made progressive

780
00:44:34,920 --> 00:44:38,040
Speaker 1: steps that in the region they seem to hinder, if

781
00:44:38,080 --> 00:44:40,359
Speaker 1: not put a stop to book or ram at one point,

782
00:44:41,080 --> 00:44:44,479
Speaker 1: only for the new presidency to come in and go, well,

783
00:44:44,560 --> 00:44:48,360
Speaker 1: we don't need you guys anymore, the South Americans. Yeah,

784
00:44:48,440 --> 00:44:51,560
Speaker 1: and the reality behind bodies because the American America came

785
00:44:51,560 --> 00:44:54,560
Speaker 1: in and says, look, will will train is you'll get

786
00:44:54,560 --> 00:44:57,040
Speaker 1: it free. You're not having to pay any money. So

787
00:44:57,560 --> 00:45:00,560
Speaker 1: that's exactly what happened. Well, it's exactly clear what it was.

788
00:45:01,160 --> 00:45:04,640
Speaker 1: And the reality is America doesn't have the man power

789
00:45:04,719 --> 00:45:07,239
Speaker 1: to to do what Steps did and knock can they

790
00:45:07,239 --> 00:45:10,600
Speaker 1: afford to you kind of thought to have, you know,

791
00:45:10,719 --> 00:45:15,439
Speaker 1: special forces orders dying in Northern Nigeria. Again, you bring

792
00:45:15,440 --> 00:45:18,200
Speaker 1: in Americans and they want to wage the American way

793
00:45:18,200 --> 00:45:20,440
Speaker 1: of war. The South Africans they know how to wage

794
00:45:20,440 --> 00:45:24,799
Speaker 1: an African bush war. They get it African. It's African

795
00:45:24,880 --> 00:45:28,200
Speaker 1: solutions to African problems. I mean, you know, STEPS were

796
00:45:28,200 --> 00:45:30,680
Speaker 1: probably one of the you know, one of the organizations

797
00:45:30,680 --> 00:45:32,719
Speaker 1: that you can honestly put your hand up and say

798
00:45:33,440 --> 00:45:36,480
Speaker 1: they had it right. You know they got something right

799
00:45:36,520 --> 00:45:40,320
Speaker 1: because they did indeed hinder books around capabilities to operate

800
00:45:40,320 --> 00:45:43,880
Speaker 1: in northern Nigeria. But once again, you know, the U

801
00:45:43,960 --> 00:45:47,440
Speaker 1: S stepped in, no, we can handle this, will do this.

802
00:45:48,200 --> 00:45:50,320
Speaker 1: And then you have a team of you know, twelve

803
00:45:50,360 --> 00:45:53,520
Speaker 1: Special Operations soldiers there and you know, maybe a couple

804
00:45:53,600 --> 00:45:56,200
Speaker 1: of others kicking about. Britain put some troops in there

805
00:45:56,200 --> 00:45:59,360
Speaker 1: that believe we've got three dred troops there at the moment.

806
00:45:59,400 --> 00:46:01,760
Speaker 1: I believe we've got elements of the some of the

807
00:46:01,840 --> 00:46:05,680
Speaker 1: intel core, the some engineers and some actility guys provided

808
00:46:05,800 --> 00:46:10,400
Speaker 1: these training courses if you like our best, and then

809
00:46:11,520 --> 00:46:14,040
Speaker 1: you know, we kick them out into the wild West,

810
00:46:14,719 --> 00:46:18,000
Speaker 1: no mentor in fears whatsoever. Just you guys are hund training.

811
00:46:18,080 --> 00:46:20,840
Speaker 1: You know what you're gonna be now, No, they don't

812
00:46:21,680 --> 00:46:25,720
Speaker 1: go and get themselves killed, and Acorama just once again

813
00:46:26,080 --> 00:46:28,760
Speaker 1: back to the world with you know, the more active

814
00:46:28,840 --> 00:46:32,240
Speaker 1: now than probably what they've ever been. Yeah, it's very uh,

815
00:46:32,280 --> 00:46:35,200
Speaker 1: it's very I know Evan Barlow is quite frustrated by

816
00:46:35,200 --> 00:46:39,520
Speaker 1: the situation because he's uh, as he's he said on

817
00:46:39,680 --> 00:46:42,440
Speaker 1: this podcast before. I mean, he's open to working with

818
00:46:42,480 --> 00:46:45,120
Speaker 1: the United States and would like to, you know, form

819
00:46:45,239 --> 00:46:47,680
Speaker 1: some sort of like partnership and you know, they can

820
00:46:47,719 --> 00:46:50,400
Speaker 1: fight some really bad actors in the region. I believe

821
00:46:50,480 --> 00:46:55,960
Speaker 1: that he was also um stymied in Uganda when as

822
00:46:55,960 --> 00:46:59,719
Speaker 1: far as going after Joe Coney and um we put

823
00:46:59,800 --> 00:47:03,479
Speaker 1: him Americans in the Uganda and Joe Coney is still

824
00:47:03,480 --> 00:47:08,759
Speaker 1: out there, so I mean a lot can be said

825
00:47:08,800 --> 00:47:11,120
Speaker 1: for that as well. You know, all these particular training schools,

826
00:47:11,440 --> 00:47:14,239
Speaker 1: you know, bringing us back to Ukraine. I've seen it

827
00:47:14,440 --> 00:47:19,319
Speaker 1: a number, you know, so many times. It's frustrating in

828
00:47:19,360 --> 00:47:23,200
Speaker 1: which these young Ukrainian lad school go to an American

829
00:47:23,239 --> 00:47:26,920
Speaker 1: school or a British military school that's been set up

830
00:47:26,960 --> 00:47:29,239
Speaker 1: there and they get rushed through the six eight week

831
00:47:29,320 --> 00:47:32,239
Speaker 1: courses sent back down to the front line. And you

832
00:47:32,320 --> 00:47:35,400
Speaker 1: have some twenty two year old captain that's just stuck

833
00:47:35,440 --> 00:47:39,319
Speaker 1: in a trench and I mean, what is he meant

834
00:47:39,320 --> 00:47:41,399
Speaker 1: to do? You know, on his own he just did

835
00:47:41,440 --> 00:47:43,920
Speaker 1: a six week eight week course at best, and he's

836
00:47:43,960 --> 00:47:46,840
Speaker 1: just left to it. There's there's nothing productive about that,

837
00:47:46,880 --> 00:47:50,160
Speaker 1: you know. And that's when the likes of my team

838
00:47:50,239 --> 00:47:52,200
Speaker 1: used to be called in and we would come in

839
00:47:52,280 --> 00:47:54,720
Speaker 1: and we would clear land minds out the way leading

840
00:47:54,719 --> 00:47:57,839
Speaker 1: to another trench. I would bust the trench. I would

841
00:47:57,880 --> 00:48:00,440
Speaker 1: just cause mayhem there wherever it was. But we were

842
00:48:00,440 --> 00:48:02,200
Speaker 1: there to support them, and they loved it, you know.

843
00:48:02,280 --> 00:48:05,600
Speaker 1: And the morale of just having us there these guys

844
00:48:05,600 --> 00:48:09,360
Speaker 1: are the extra knowledge and the extrawn, you know, it

845
00:48:09,480 --> 00:48:11,920
Speaker 1: just it inspired them to do better as well. And

846
00:48:11,960 --> 00:48:14,280
Speaker 1: that's coming back to like this mentor in phase that

847
00:48:14,280 --> 00:48:17,080
Speaker 1: that that we just lack as military units. You know,

848
00:48:17,120 --> 00:48:19,440
Speaker 1: we just lack this mentoring days. Embedding ourselves in with

849
00:48:19,480 --> 00:48:21,800
Speaker 1: these guys and staying with them during the fight. It

850
00:48:21,880 --> 00:48:23,960
Speaker 1: could make so much of a difference. And that's the

851
00:48:23,960 --> 00:48:27,920
Speaker 1: other problem that we have. You know, we can put

852
00:48:27,920 --> 00:48:30,680
Speaker 1: training schools up all around the world, it doesn't really

853
00:48:30,719 --> 00:48:33,680
Speaker 1: matter when it gets down to it, when the rounds

854
00:48:33,680 --> 00:48:35,279
Speaker 1: are coming down and things like that, that's when people

855
00:48:35,280 --> 00:48:37,440
Speaker 1: get scared. That's when you need someone there as we

856
00:48:37,480 --> 00:48:40,920
Speaker 1: all wanted, as you as your private sort of young

857
00:48:41,000 --> 00:48:42,879
Speaker 1: lunch jacks. Someone was at to take your hand and said,

858
00:48:42,880 --> 00:48:46,839
Speaker 1: don't worry about it. It's normal. But we're not doing

859
00:48:46,840 --> 00:48:50,759
Speaker 1: that now. But pushing guys to little schools tell them

860
00:48:50,800 --> 00:48:52,759
Speaker 1: to go the DIF front line and deal with it.

861
00:48:54,000 --> 00:48:56,640
Speaker 1: I failed to see how that's a that's going to

862
00:48:56,680 --> 00:48:59,160
Speaker 1: make any difference. It's just a waste of time. Yeah,

863
00:49:00,120 --> 00:49:02,640
Speaker 1: if the military can't do it, hand it over the

864
00:49:02,680 --> 00:49:05,879
Speaker 1: private entities that can. And I know that once again,

865
00:49:05,880 --> 00:49:09,719
Speaker 1: it's a very very sticky topic. You know, you know

866
00:49:09,800 --> 00:49:13,560
Speaker 1: that I'm adamant about it because I do believe, like

867
00:49:14,080 --> 00:49:17,600
Speaker 1: you know, the organizations like STEPS that just have a

868
00:49:17,680 --> 00:49:22,120
Speaker 1: proven background that can do it. You know they can't

869
00:49:22,120 --> 00:49:24,440
Speaker 1: and they connect the difference. So why can't we sort

870
00:49:24,440 --> 00:49:28,200
Speaker 1: out some partnership why we saw against US and private entities.

871
00:49:28,239 --> 00:49:30,879
Speaker 1: Now on the oppos end of that, there's that prince

872
00:49:31,160 --> 00:49:34,400
Speaker 1: just because of his nearme Alan people just detest anything

873
00:49:34,400 --> 00:49:37,239
Speaker 1: the guy says. Or you can refer back to our

874
00:49:37,320 --> 00:49:42,560
Speaker 1: podcast about the mercenary option in operation in Yemen Um

875
00:49:42,680 --> 00:49:46,640
Speaker 1: which didn't go so well. I mean that's true. That

876
00:49:46,719 --> 00:49:48,800
Speaker 1: was just shocked, you know, when I'm lefting it, but

877
00:49:49,320 --> 00:49:52,560
Speaker 1: I mean looking back at that footage, I mean obviously

878
00:49:52,560 --> 00:49:54,520
Speaker 1: I was tagged in it on the writers chatnel. You know,

879
00:49:54,560 --> 00:49:56,880
Speaker 1: I'm looking at it and I'm thinking, so, what's this

880
00:49:56,960 --> 00:49:58,520
Speaker 1: because I didn't actually, you know, me being me, I

881
00:49:58,520 --> 00:50:01,120
Speaker 1: didn't read what it was about. Click don't pick to

882
00:50:01,120 --> 00:50:03,440
Speaker 1: have a look at it, and I'm just thinking, what

883
00:50:03,520 --> 00:50:06,560
Speaker 1: are these fucking hatches doing? Only to find out that

884
00:50:06,600 --> 00:50:09,799
Speaker 1: it's actually former US Special Operations And you know, I

885
00:50:09,840 --> 00:50:13,320
Speaker 1: think I went straight on to just out curse these people.

886
00:50:13,360 --> 00:50:15,239
Speaker 1: And then I was like looking at the background of

887
00:50:15,239 --> 00:50:19,200
Speaker 1: the individuals that were involved, and I'm sitting here, I mean,

888
00:50:19,239 --> 00:50:21,439
Speaker 1: I was never Special Operations. When I'm sitting here thinking

889
00:50:21,480 --> 00:50:25,480
Speaker 1: to myself, did you get that so wrong? Because it

890
00:50:25,520 --> 00:50:29,239
Speaker 1: went so wrong? I mean, it was so wrong. Like

891
00:50:29,280 --> 00:50:31,480
Speaker 1: I said, it was laughable. Yeah, it was a mess.

892
00:50:31,680 --> 00:50:33,960
Speaker 1: When we talked to Dale, he told us about you know,

893
00:50:34,000 --> 00:50:36,400
Speaker 1: like one of the guys just shooting at nothing, another

894
00:50:36,440 --> 00:50:39,719
Speaker 1: guy just turning and running away. It just sounded like

895
00:50:39,760 --> 00:50:43,840
Speaker 1: a pandemonium out there. Um. But then going back to

896
00:50:43,880 --> 00:50:47,680
Speaker 1: the lost heritage of Special Operations that out there on

897
00:50:47,719 --> 00:50:49,799
Speaker 1: their own, and this is one of the clear you know,

898
00:50:50,280 --> 00:50:52,600
Speaker 1: it's one of the advantages. I guess the likes of

899
00:50:52,640 --> 00:50:56,680
Speaker 1: myself as as as volunteers or as these people that

900
00:50:56,719 --> 00:50:59,640
Speaker 1: hang around in these countries for long enough, you know,

901
00:51:00,440 --> 00:51:03,280
Speaker 1: you get used to more opera and with that support,

902
00:51:04,080 --> 00:51:06,760
Speaker 1: you know, you have no patchies, you have no decent medics,

903
00:51:06,800 --> 00:51:09,920
Speaker 1: have nothing. And I think that's the element that these

904
00:51:10,239 --> 00:51:13,879
Speaker 1: formal special operations guys have lost. So when they are

905
00:51:13,920 --> 00:51:16,600
Speaker 1: indeed out there on their own, which is quite evident

906
00:51:16,600 --> 00:51:18,799
Speaker 1: in this book and video, when they're out there on

907
00:51:18,800 --> 00:51:21,160
Speaker 1: their own, they just lost. They just lost the head.

908
00:51:21,600 --> 00:51:23,120
Speaker 1: I have no idea what went on to Honestly, I

909
00:51:23,160 --> 00:51:25,000
Speaker 1: still look at the video cluarly looking at it against you,

910
00:51:25,080 --> 00:51:27,160
Speaker 1: and I don't know what the folk's going on. Well,

911
00:51:27,160 --> 00:51:30,120
Speaker 1: that's what I love about Evan and his group is,

912
00:51:30,360 --> 00:51:34,320
Speaker 1: uh they have a pretty good track record uh fighting

913
00:51:34,600 --> 00:51:37,640
Speaker 1: you know, the r UF and cr al Leone. They're

914
00:51:37,680 --> 00:51:42,400
Speaker 1: fighting Unita in Angola and uh in fighting Boco haran

915
00:51:42,640 --> 00:51:45,680
Speaker 1: Um and then there's some smaller operations that they did

916
00:51:45,840 --> 00:51:48,200
Speaker 1: here and there that you know, people are probably less

917
00:51:48,200 --> 00:51:52,839
Speaker 1: familiar with. But um, unlike the United States military, they

918
00:51:52,840 --> 00:51:56,200
Speaker 1: have a pretty good track record with these things exactly.

919
00:51:56,280 --> 00:51:58,560
Speaker 1: And you know, we're just for whatever reason, were so

920
00:51:59,520 --> 00:52:04,680
Speaker 1: again using these solutions. I mean, you have to, we

921
00:52:04,760 --> 00:52:07,520
Speaker 1: have to at some points take the shuttles off this

922
00:52:07,560 --> 00:52:11,520
Speaker 1: whole mercenary, the word itself. Actually, you know, it really

923
00:52:11,560 --> 00:52:14,560
Speaker 1: pisses me off. From honesty. Well, I mean I don't

924
00:52:14,600 --> 00:52:16,560
Speaker 1: I don't think you really used I don't think it

925
00:52:16,560 --> 00:52:20,520
Speaker 1: really matters if you use private contractors or you use um,

926
00:52:20,560 --> 00:52:24,560
Speaker 1: you know, government service people, service men and women. I mean,

927
00:52:24,600 --> 00:52:27,160
Speaker 1: if your tactics and your strategy are just fucked up

928
00:52:27,200 --> 00:52:29,720
Speaker 1: from the floor up, I mean, it doesn't really matter

929
00:52:29,760 --> 00:52:33,000
Speaker 1: what force you know. No, no, I can I can

930
00:52:33,120 --> 00:52:36,200
Speaker 1: agree with that, But I do think that, you know,

931
00:52:37,160 --> 00:52:41,279
Speaker 1: going forward in the future, I do believe there is

932
00:52:42,960 --> 00:52:47,440
Speaker 1: there should be, you know, the use of these companies

933
00:52:47,480 --> 00:52:51,280
Speaker 1: like Steps, maybe Steps is. Maybe Steps is the pinnacle

934
00:52:51,520 --> 00:52:53,560
Speaker 1: in which we should all try and expire it. Those

935
00:52:53,560 --> 00:52:55,520
Speaker 1: private entities, you know, maybe we should. Maybe we could

936
00:52:55,600 --> 00:52:58,319
Speaker 1: land a few things, read these books and learn from

937
00:52:58,360 --> 00:53:01,759
Speaker 1: the guy and then try and implement those you know,

938
00:53:02,600 --> 00:53:05,040
Speaker 1: because he gets it right. He's he's one of the organizations,

939
00:53:05,080 --> 00:53:07,920
Speaker 1: as we've just said, that got it right, that gets

940
00:53:07,920 --> 00:53:12,040
Speaker 1: it right. So you know, maybe we could learn from that. Yeah,

941
00:53:12,239 --> 00:53:14,600
Speaker 1: I think so, and at least try that out. But

942
00:53:14,600 --> 00:53:17,160
Speaker 1: if you're not trying it out. Then we're not learning,

943
00:53:17,640 --> 00:53:19,839
Speaker 1: you know, if we're sticking to how we've done things

944
00:53:19,840 --> 00:53:23,319
Speaker 1: the last fifteen years. I mean, I just think, I

945
00:53:23,360 --> 00:53:25,799
Speaker 1: just think it's madness because all that keeps happen is

946
00:53:25,800 --> 00:53:28,640
Speaker 1: history just repeats itself, you know, and we keep going

947
00:53:28,640 --> 00:53:31,359
Speaker 1: from one failed campaign to another faild campaign, pulling out

948
00:53:31,360 --> 00:53:33,759
Speaker 1: too early, not enough troops, not enough support, not enough this,

949
00:53:33,920 --> 00:53:36,960
Speaker 1: not enough of that, you know, not enough knowledge, not

950
00:53:37,080 --> 00:53:40,440
Speaker 1: enough information, you know, all of these things just you know,

951
00:53:40,600 --> 00:53:42,200
Speaker 1: it can easily set a lot of control. I guess

952
00:53:42,239 --> 00:53:44,759
Speaker 1: is where I'm going with it. You know, we just

953
00:53:44,840 --> 00:53:47,600
Speaker 1: don't have all the answers. We need to accept that

954
00:53:47,640 --> 00:53:50,280
Speaker 1: as well. But the United States, the UK, France, whoever,

955
00:53:50,760 --> 00:53:53,000
Speaker 1: we don't have all the answers, you know what I mean.

956
00:53:53,120 --> 00:53:55,600
Speaker 1: We need to tend to people up probably do have

957
00:53:55,640 --> 00:53:57,919
Speaker 1: the answers. Or if you don't have the answers, let's

958
00:53:57,920 --> 00:54:01,040
Speaker 1: try something new, you know what I mean. I'm trying

959
00:54:01,040 --> 00:54:03,120
Speaker 1: to think outside this conventional box that will been so

960
00:54:03,200 --> 00:54:08,200
Speaker 1: confined to and give things to go best can happanies

961
00:54:08,440 --> 00:54:10,879
Speaker 1: the intercase a failed campaigner, the faield, you know, something

962
00:54:10,920 --> 00:54:13,319
Speaker 1: that's filmed, it's nothing worse than what we're doing now

963
00:54:13,840 --> 00:54:17,200
Speaker 1: exactly do you we can't get we can't get anyone. Well,

964
00:54:17,280 --> 00:54:20,560
Speaker 1: so we're gonna I think leave it at that for today, Jamie.

965
00:54:20,760 --> 00:54:22,799
Speaker 1: And uh, I mean, is there anything else you want

966
00:54:22,800 --> 00:54:25,560
Speaker 1: to bring up before before we get going here? Um?

967
00:54:25,640 --> 00:54:28,080
Speaker 1: And what we can have you on again? Uh, you know,

968
00:54:28,239 --> 00:54:31,399
Speaker 1: shortly to discuss some of these topics more and when

969
00:54:31,560 --> 00:54:35,480
Speaker 1: we update things in Ukraine. Yeah, I mean, just one

970
00:54:35,560 --> 00:54:39,360
Speaker 1: last thing on the the Ukrainian situation. I wanted to

971
00:54:39,400 --> 00:54:40,960
Speaker 1: get this point at this point across a little bit

972
00:54:41,000 --> 00:54:44,040
Speaker 1: of a prediction of how it could potentially go in

973
00:54:44,080 --> 00:54:47,080
Speaker 1: the next couple of months. So in light of all

974
00:54:47,120 --> 00:54:49,879
Speaker 1: at tensions within the as in as I've seen, which

975
00:54:49,920 --> 00:54:54,920
Speaker 1: has deeply affected the Mario Pool pot and the infrastructure there.

976
00:54:55,920 --> 00:54:59,480
Speaker 1: So I believe that to play by Russia to strangle

977
00:55:00,440 --> 00:55:04,000
Speaker 1: you know that that that region of Ukraine, and I

978
00:55:04,040 --> 00:55:05,719
Speaker 1: believe by doing so it could cause a lot of

979
00:55:05,760 --> 00:55:09,520
Speaker 1: civil unrest. And if they can do that, then they

980
00:55:09,560 --> 00:55:13,600
Speaker 1: could potentially make a place to take Mariable from the

981
00:55:13,719 --> 00:55:18,719
Speaker 1: Ukrainian government. Because even when I was working down there

982
00:55:18,719 --> 00:55:21,880
Speaker 1: with the military, it was always on the agenda to

983
00:55:21,920 --> 00:55:27,160
Speaker 1: take Mariable. So I believe they were unable to obtain

984
00:55:27,200 --> 00:55:29,960
Speaker 1: it through sort of military provocation if you like, on

985
00:55:30,080 --> 00:55:33,600
Speaker 1: military aggression. So maybe now they're going to hit Mana

986
00:55:33,920 --> 00:55:38,719
Speaker 1: economically and cause some diversions down there, if you like,

987
00:55:38,840 --> 00:55:41,200
Speaker 1: between the people of the people, do a lot of

988
00:55:41,239 --> 00:55:44,960
Speaker 1: the work, and then have their separatist force come up

989
00:55:45,000 --> 00:55:49,719
Speaker 1: through from Saka and into Mariable possibly take it and

990
00:55:49,760 --> 00:55:52,520
Speaker 1: then see the entire as I've see themselves. That's something

991
00:55:52,560 --> 00:55:55,880
Speaker 1: that I do believe is highly likely. Well, if you

992
00:55:55,920 --> 00:55:58,359
Speaker 1: guys want to read more about this in depth, check

993
00:55:58,360 --> 00:56:01,200
Speaker 1: out the news Rep dot com. J has written you know,

994
00:56:01,360 --> 00:56:04,239
Speaker 1: at length about Ukraine, but the latest article is we're

995
00:56:04,239 --> 00:56:08,120
Speaker 1: recording this is Ukraine timeline of events and what Russia

996
00:56:08,160 --> 00:56:11,600
Speaker 1: has really been up to since. As I said, check

997
00:56:11,640 --> 00:56:13,680
Speaker 1: that out now at the news Rep dot com. You

998
00:56:13,719 --> 00:56:17,839
Speaker 1: could follow Jamie on Instagram at j Reid one for one.

999
00:56:18,320 --> 00:56:21,680
Speaker 1: That's g A A Y R E A D one

1000
00:56:21,760 --> 00:56:25,120
Speaker 1: for one j Reid one for one on Instagram. And

1001
00:56:25,160 --> 00:56:26,560
Speaker 1: I know a lot of people are glad to have

1002
00:56:26,600 --> 00:56:28,480
Speaker 1: you back on board. You're one of those writers who's

1003
00:56:28,480 --> 00:56:30,759
Speaker 1: been missed and now people are seeing new stuff from

1004
00:56:30,760 --> 00:56:33,960
Speaker 1: you every day. Thank you very much, thanking all for

1005
00:56:34,000 --> 00:56:36,360
Speaker 1: the kind words and yeah, keep keeping out on the

1006
00:56:36,360 --> 00:56:38,480
Speaker 1: Instagram was always some cool picks that end upon there.

1007
00:56:38,640 --> 00:56:41,719
Speaker 1: You do have some cool pictures he's got like very badass,

1008
00:56:42,280 --> 00:56:45,760
Speaker 1: you know, just like pictures from overseas and and actually

1009
00:56:45,800 --> 00:56:49,480
Speaker 1: like really well shot and uh yeah no even if

1010
00:56:49,520 --> 00:56:51,239
Speaker 1: you see I I remember what it looks like the

1011
00:56:51,400 --> 00:56:53,680
Speaker 1: batter for this episode as a photo that Jay has

1012
00:56:53,719 --> 00:56:56,320
Speaker 1: of himself, and like they're all just really cool pictures.

1013
00:56:56,360 --> 00:56:59,879
Speaker 1: So Jay's Instagram is worth checking out. Yeah, I mean

1014
00:57:00,000 --> 00:57:03,719
Speaker 1: someone has to be the cool guy who takes all

1015
00:57:03,760 --> 00:57:06,560
Speaker 1: these They look like they're from like a professional photo shoot.

1016
00:57:07,520 --> 00:57:12,160
Speaker 1: I mean, what can I say? Sometimes sometimes when a

1017
00:57:12,200 --> 00:57:14,440
Speaker 1: guy looks good, you know there's another guy there and

1018
00:57:14,440 --> 00:57:19,280
Speaker 1: he said, and yeah, it's one of those ones that

1019
00:57:19,360 --> 00:57:20,880
Speaker 1: ends up on Instagram. But like I said, I believe

1020
00:57:20,880 --> 00:57:22,480
Speaker 1: it was Jack that did want to tell me, if

1021
00:57:22,480 --> 00:57:25,200
Speaker 1: you don't know what you're doing doing at least look cool,

1022
00:57:27,520 --> 00:57:30,520
Speaker 1: always take that away. I might look ali as some

1023
00:57:30,600 --> 00:57:32,640
Speaker 1: of these photos and people are going to go, wow,

1024
00:57:32,680 --> 00:57:35,520
Speaker 1: he's awesome. It's the idea what I'm doing. It's the

1025
00:57:35,560 --> 00:57:40,080
Speaker 1: first rule of SF is always a core Yeah, exactly exactly.

1026
00:57:40,120 --> 00:57:41,800
Speaker 1: You know. I took that with me on every bench

1027
00:57:41,880 --> 00:57:43,080
Speaker 1: I've been and if I don't know what I'm doing,

1028
00:57:43,120 --> 00:57:45,520
Speaker 1: at least if I look cool, people are not going

1029
00:57:45,560 --> 00:57:50,280
Speaker 1: to people want message that you see, so they guys

1030
00:57:50,760 --> 00:57:54,240
Speaker 1: everybody else out there. As you say, I'd have to

1031
00:57:54,280 --> 00:57:57,000
Speaker 1: dig it up what number episode it was, But from

1032
00:57:57,040 --> 00:57:58,720
Speaker 1: a couple of years ago, if you guys want to

1033
00:57:58,760 --> 00:58:00,880
Speaker 1: dig back in the archives, we a great story of

1034
00:58:00,920 --> 00:58:03,440
Speaker 1: when Jay was on about him waking up all of

1035
00:58:03,520 --> 00:58:06,600
Speaker 1: Jack Murphy's neighbors as he tried to get back into

1036
00:58:06,640 --> 00:58:10,480
Speaker 1: your apartment after a drunken night out. Oh you're really

1037
00:58:10,520 --> 00:58:12,440
Speaker 1: not gonna We're really not going to let this gol guy.

1038
00:58:12,640 --> 00:58:15,680
Speaker 1: I mean, I wasn't going to bring it up. I'm

1039
00:58:15,720 --> 00:58:18,840
Speaker 1: bringing up it's in the archives. I mean, it's on

1040
00:58:18,960 --> 00:58:21,919
Speaker 1: record people, because it's it's on the internet forever, long

1041
00:58:21,960 --> 00:58:25,720
Speaker 1: after all of us are here. I was getting angry

1042
00:58:25,720 --> 00:58:28,880
Speaker 1: text messages from the woman that lives on the ground

1043
00:58:28,920 --> 00:58:31,320
Speaker 1: for it, like three in the morning, and I'm like

1044
00:58:31,440 --> 00:58:34,720
Speaker 1: rolling over in bed, I'm like, what the fuck this

1045
00:58:34,880 --> 00:58:38,600
Speaker 1: military looking dude with neck tattoos is trying to get

1046
00:58:38,600 --> 00:58:42,439
Speaker 1: into your apartment. I mean yeah, I mean once again,

1047
00:58:42,520 --> 00:58:45,160
Speaker 1: I mean, you know, just for everyone, Els, I came

1048
00:58:45,200 --> 00:58:47,880
Speaker 1: to New York recently. I had a peaceful time. I

1049
00:58:47,920 --> 00:58:52,240
Speaker 1: didn't wake any nig It was piece. You know, it's

1050
00:58:52,280 --> 00:58:54,480
Speaker 1: because you're your old lady was with you and you're

1051
00:58:54,480 --> 00:58:59,080
Speaker 1: a different man keeping you in line. Don't trust me, absolutely, boys,

1052
00:58:59,120 --> 00:59:03,400
Speaker 1: because I probably would have called chaos whatever whatever I

1053
00:59:03,480 --> 00:59:06,280
Speaker 1: touched down in this world, I have to leave some

1054
00:59:06,320 --> 00:59:09,080
Speaker 1: form accounts behind. It's only right given the nature and

1055
00:59:09,120 --> 00:59:13,720
Speaker 1: given the background. Awesome man, well, great avenue on as always. Well,

1056
00:59:13,720 --> 00:59:16,200
Speaker 1: we'll definitely do this again. And personally, I'm sorry I

1057
00:59:16,240 --> 00:59:17,840
Speaker 1: missed you the last time you were in New York.

1058
00:59:17,880 --> 00:59:20,760
Speaker 1: I know you hit me up and originally told me

1059
00:59:20,760 --> 00:59:22,880
Speaker 1: you're going to be here closer to like this time.

1060
00:59:22,920 --> 00:59:24,680
Speaker 1: So I was like, all right, we'll make something happen,

1061
00:59:24,760 --> 00:59:27,160
Speaker 1: and then you ended up coming earlier than I expected.

1062
00:59:27,200 --> 00:59:29,560
Speaker 1: But next time you're here, we'll definitely meet up. Man,

1063
00:59:30,600 --> 00:59:32,160
Speaker 1: not to not to what do you know, I'm not

1064
00:59:32,160 --> 00:59:38,280
Speaker 1: important enough. It's fine as when when you can feelings, Honestly,

1065
00:59:38,920 --> 00:59:44,600
Speaker 1: I promise I doesn't know how feelings here. Just disappointed that. Well,

1066
00:59:44,720 --> 00:59:47,480
Speaker 1: next time we'll make that. But no, thanks, J appreciate it. Man,

1067
00:59:48,480 --> 00:59:50,120
Speaker 1: right snow by the rights ticket these and guys and

1068
00:59:50,160 --> 00:59:55,560
Speaker 1: I'll speak he's also thanks Jamie. Good Chop chop. Great

1069
00:59:55,640 --> 00:59:58,280
Speaker 1: update from Jay, I know he's you know, wanted to

1070
00:59:58,280 --> 01:00:00,240
Speaker 1: do that for a while. An update on you training

1071
01:00:00,280 --> 01:00:02,439
Speaker 1: and we'll do it again at some point. Um. Yeah,

1072
01:00:02,520 --> 01:00:05,800
Speaker 1: definitely wrapping things up here. Be sure to check out

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Speaker 1: Create Club. We have a lot of great stuff on

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Speaker 1: You can check that all out of Create Club dot Us.

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Speaker 1: Once again, that's great Club dot us. And as a

1080
01:00:31,160 --> 01:00:34,080
Speaker 1: reminder for those listening, for a limited time, you can

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Speaker 1: receive a fifty percent discounted membership to the spec Ops Channel,

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Speaker 1: our channel that offers the most exclusive shows, documentaries, and

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Speaker 1: interviews covering the most exciting military content today. The spec

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Speaker 1: Ops channel premier show Training Cell follows former Special Operations

1085
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Speaker 1: Forces as they participate in the most advanced training in

1086
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Speaker 1: the country, everything from shooting schools, defensive driving, Joe Uncle

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Speaker 1: and winter warfare, climbing and much more. Again, you can

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Speaker 1: watch that content by subscribing to the spec Ops channel

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Speaker 1: at spec ops channel dot com and take advantage of

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Speaker 1: a limited time offer of fifty off your membership only

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Speaker 1: four nine a month spec ops channel dot com. Once again,

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Speaker 1: we hope all of you listening had a great Christmas,

1093
01:01:21,840 --> 01:01:24,920
Speaker 1: UH and a lot of appreciation from us to you

1094
01:01:24,960 --> 01:01:28,600
Speaker 1: guys overseas who are missing out on Christmas with your

1095
01:01:28,640 --> 01:01:32,800
Speaker 1: families to protect us, and it's something that we always appreciate. UH.

1096
01:01:33,000 --> 01:01:37,640
Speaker 1: Next episode from this one, we have Jared von Jared

1097
01:01:37,720 --> 01:01:41,160
Speaker 1: van Dress coming on or Dryce Jared Van Drace hopefully

1098
01:01:41,160 --> 01:01:44,280
Speaker 1: and pronouncing correctly. UM, who is a friend of one

1099
01:01:44,320 --> 01:01:46,800
Speaker 1: of our guys the site, Nick Betts, who seems to

1100
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Speaker 1: have a pretty interesting background in UH private security. He

1101
01:01:49,920 --> 01:01:52,680
Speaker 1: has a new book out co authored with three other guys.

1102
01:01:52,720 --> 01:01:56,680
Speaker 1: It's called Public Figures, Private Lives and Introduction to Protective

1103
01:01:56,840 --> 01:02:01,280
Speaker 1: Security for high net worth individuals and family offices. So

1104
01:02:01,360 --> 01:02:06,000
Speaker 1: I'm looking forward to that one. All right, man, good episode.

1105
01:02:06,680 --> 01:02:10,160
Speaker 1: I hope everyone had a great Christmas and we'll talk

1106
01:02:10,160 --> 01:02:17,800
Speaker 1: against soon. You've been listening to self Red Radio. New

1107
01:02:17,880 --> 01:02:21,840
Speaker 1: episodes up every Wednesday and Friday. Follow the show on

1108
01:02:21,960 --> 01:02:24,800
Speaker 1: Instagram and Twitter at self rep Radio.