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Speaker 1: Hey, this is Annie and Samantha, and.

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Speaker 2: Welcome to Stefan ever told you protection of iHeartRadio? And

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Speaker 2: welcome to another edition of Monday Many. This is one

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Speaker 2: I have many strong opinions about. I have a lot

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Speaker 2: of experience with, and I'm excited to talk about it

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Speaker 2: because it turns out I am not alone.

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Speaker 1: You are not.

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Speaker 2: No, because today we were talking about trick dates or

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Speaker 2: surprise dates, something that you might not have seen as

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Speaker 2: a date, but it turns out it was a date.

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Speaker 2: This was inspired by and no spoilers, only murders in

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Speaker 2: the building. The most recent season features an arc where

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Speaker 2: Selena Gomes his character is tricked into a date and

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Speaker 2: it was framed as something sort of romantic and ultimately successful,

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Speaker 2: which made me actually shout at the TP. So I

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Speaker 2: wanted to talk FYI.

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Speaker 1: This is a Sex and the City episode. Oh really, yep?

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Speaker 2: Are we close? How long do I have to wait

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Speaker 2: before we?

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Speaker 1: Just wait a minute, I'll remind you.

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Speaker 2: Okay, perfect? I mean I all have thoughts again, yes,

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Speaker 2: and just uh fun aside. I actually really enjoy the show.

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Speaker 2: They're not a sponsor or anything currently, but they have before,

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Speaker 2: right I think, yes, I believe they have and it does.

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Speaker 2: It's like about a podcast, So that's kind of fun.

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Speaker 1: It is funny, is it real? No? No, in a

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Speaker 1: wide open room as if they're doing stand up comedy.

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Speaker 2: Yes, yes, yes, but it's kind of fun to get

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Speaker 2: to critique it in that way. Also, I'm I'm going

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Speaker 2: to say ninety percent sure I know who it is

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Speaker 2: in this season and it's wild and bonkers. But also

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Speaker 2: they have a plat point that's driving me wild. It's

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Speaker 2: so clear to me, as someone with low self esteem

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Speaker 2: what's going on, but no one seems to get it.

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Speaker 1: Oh that's funny. I haven't started the new season. There's

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Speaker 1: so many US domestic shows that I have not watched

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Speaker 1: because I'm still caught up in let me only do

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Speaker 1: Korean dramas hoping that I'm going to learn by osmosis,

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Speaker 1: and it's not working. By the way, it's I am

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Speaker 1: understanding more and I know when that translation is wrong,

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Speaker 1: but it's not working to that effect. But Netflix is

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Speaker 1: real bad about it.

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Speaker 2: Ah.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, their translations are typically always a little off. I

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Speaker 1: will say they do have like Asian people like I

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Speaker 1: think Korean people to actually translate it, but it's still

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Speaker 1: kind of off anyway. Back to I haven't watched any

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Speaker 1: of because I haven't watched The Bear. I've only seen

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Speaker 1: a couple of episodes. I haven't watched only Murders, which

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Speaker 1: I was really into. And we haven't even watched the

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Speaker 1: last season Ted Lasso, I'm behind.

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Speaker 2: I haven't watched that in any there, but that's largely

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Speaker 2: due to what I have subscription wise. Yes, Also, what

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Speaker 2: we do in the Shadow is just ended.

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Speaker 1: Oh yeah, I know I saw that that had a

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Speaker 1: double uh two finalee episode fin Yeah, I need to

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Speaker 1: I need to get so we need to get on

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Speaker 1: that too. There's so many, so many.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, well, I am excited to hear your thoughts about

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Speaker 2: this whenever you finally get God. I do want to

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Speaker 2: say before we go into this there, I do think

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Speaker 2: there is a difference between something that sort of becomes

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Speaker 2: a date that is mutually agreed upon, vocally mutually agreed upon,

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Speaker 2: Like you're like, oh, this, okay, this feels like a date.

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Speaker 2: Maybe that wasn't what you intended. I usually that happens

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Speaker 2: after the fact, where you're in my experience where you're like,

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Speaker 2: oh that was a date and you're like, oh, yeah,

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Speaker 2: that you have that conversation though, like it wasn't.

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Speaker 1: A trick like you get like you hang out accidentally

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Speaker 1: and then that ends up being a date like that's

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Speaker 1: I've never.

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Speaker 2: No no no no no. So you it would be like

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Speaker 2: you go out and you have a really good time,

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Speaker 2: maybe bowling or something like, you have a really good

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Speaker 2: time and afterwards you're like, was that a date, like

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Speaker 2: kind of joking like was that a date? And the

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Speaker 2: other person's like, yeah, I feel like that was a date.

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Speaker 2: Like it's much more like you kind of realize in it, like, oh,

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Speaker 2: this was fun and I think we could date.

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Speaker 1: It's more of a like, okay, so saying that you're

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Speaker 1: mutually attracted, yes, okay.

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Speaker 2: Yes, right, but that I think that's the key is

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Speaker 2: like both people go in not thinking it's a date.

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Speaker 2: Maybe they maybe they think like maybe it could be,

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Speaker 2: but it's not like a, oh, this is definitely a date.

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Speaker 1: So you come into a hang knowing that this person

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Speaker 1: is there, and then the hang is so good and

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Speaker 1: you to connect, well this was our first date type

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Speaker 1: of thing, yes, okay, yes.

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Speaker 2: But vocally talk about it. You vocally agree about that.

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Speaker 1: Verbally, yeah, vocally verbally a lot.

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Speaker 2: Maybe I'm sorry, I don't.

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Speaker 1: Apologize, like she's trying to say verbally, I guess.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, who knows. You know, that's the fun of podcasting,

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Speaker 2: only it's true. That's what I mean though, is like

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Speaker 2: you say it aloud and you agree, yes, yes, I do.

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Speaker 2: I also think there is a difference between a misunderstanding

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Speaker 2: and tricking someone into a date. That's a little bit murkier.

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Speaker 2: But I think that that can't happen too. I think

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Speaker 2: that sometimes you can be like, oh, you think something's

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Speaker 2: a date, another person doesn't. But it's less that you're

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Speaker 2: trying to trick them to get them there and then

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Speaker 2: make it a date. It's more that maybe one person

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Speaker 2: thought it was and the other person thought it wasn't.

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Speaker 2: I think that's different than what we're talking about today.

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Speaker 2: In this episode of Only Murders in the Building, he

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Speaker 2: says allowed, you know. To his credit, he says, alowed,

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Speaker 2: like I tricked you here because I wanted a date.

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Speaker 2: So at least he admitted it. I know. I'm glad

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Speaker 2: you agree, but that was not seemingly the vibe on

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Speaker 2: the show. So trick dates are much more of a

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Speaker 2: purposeful one person, usually the man. Although I did find

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Speaker 2: a lot of hilarious articles about men saying women keep

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Speaker 2: trying to trick me into dating and I'm like, but baby, baby,

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Speaker 2: But usually it's a dude who has like some kind

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Speaker 2: of way, a plan premeditated of like getting a woman

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Speaker 2: to go on a date, and then from there it's

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Speaker 2: supposed to sort of snowball. There's actually kind of a

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Speaker 2: really funny this came up in conversation recently because there's

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Speaker 2: a joke episode in my version of Sex and the

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Speaker 2: City Seinfeld where this guy tricks Elaine into dating him

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Speaker 2: by saying Dustin Hoffin was in Star Wars, which obviously

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Speaker 2: he knew was a lie, and it's like if you know.

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Speaker 2: She was like, no, if you're wrong, and he said, well,

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Speaker 2: if I'm wrong, then we'll go on I have dinner,

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Speaker 2: and he knew he was wrong. But then somebody created

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Speaker 2: a fake video that went wild on Twitter recently where

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Speaker 2: it was like Dustin Hoffmann was in Star Wars. He wasn't,

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Speaker 2: but it was very convincing video. So the conversation came

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Speaker 2: up again. But it's like a very there are tactics

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Speaker 2: involved like that, there's like this way of getting someone

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Speaker 2: to go with you, and then the hope is that

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Speaker 2: it will lead to your dating. And so I actually

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Speaker 2: found some tactics that were from Madame Noir and it

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Speaker 2: was very much like don't do this. This was not

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Speaker 2: some like Men's health, like how to do it. It

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Speaker 2: was like, these are the tactics people use to be clear,

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Speaker 2: and I thought we would just run through them because

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Speaker 2: almost all of them all was like yep, see it,

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Speaker 2: seen it. The first one going from a group to

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Speaker 2: a solo. Hang, yeah, yes, okay, So I had this.

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Speaker 2: I've had this happen more than once. But the most

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Speaker 2: egregious was this guy who told me in college. He

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Speaker 2: was like, it's gonna be We're gonna have a study group.

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Speaker 2: We're going to practice I believe it was German language.

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Speaker 2: And I was like, okay, yeah, cool. And then I

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Speaker 2: get there and not only it, did some everyone else

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Speaker 2: mysteriously cancel. He was like, let's go have dinner, and

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Speaker 2: then he didn't have money or his BuzzFeed card, so

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Speaker 2: I had to pay that. So that was our our

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Speaker 2: buzzcard was so at Georgia Tech, it's called a buzzcard.

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Speaker 1: Okay, not a card, yeslistical thing.

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Speaker 2: It's been a long time. He's my buzz card's good.

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Speaker 1: I'm sorry, so I had to pay for his meal.

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Speaker 2: And then at the end he was like, do you

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Speaker 2: want to go get dinner sometime? And he what he

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Speaker 2: his tactic was he knew I'd never been to this

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Speaker 2: local restaurant that's famous, and I wanted to go. I'd

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Speaker 2: expressed I wanted to go, and he's like, we can

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Speaker 2: go there, which has been used against me more than once.

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Speaker 2: People find out what I want to do and they're like,

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Speaker 2: I'll go.

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Speaker 1: With you, yeah, and then try it happened to you

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Speaker 1: often to the point that I'm like.

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Speaker 2: Don't go anywhere.

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Speaker 1: Why are you doing this? You know what he's doing.

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Speaker 1: He's not trying to just be a friend.

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Speaker 2: Sometimes they are, Oh.

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Speaker 1: Yes, even when you think they're being your friend, they're

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Speaker 1: still just trying to test the waters.

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Speaker 2: Hmmm mm hmmm. Yeah, yeah, but that's it. That's the

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Speaker 2: unfortunate thing is like, this is probably the tactic that

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Speaker 2: works the most on meme is like, here's an event

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Speaker 2: I know you would want to go to, and I

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Speaker 2: want to go to. Let's go together, and I do

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Speaker 2: want to go, so it's like, yeah, I'll go with you.

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Speaker 2: And then the next thing, you know, the next thing,

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Speaker 2: you know, you're dating.

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Speaker 1: Congratulations, you were in a relationship you didn't want to

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Speaker 1: be in.

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Speaker 2: Or didn't know you were in. Yes, that's kind of

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Speaker 2: the key of it is, it's never communicated. It's never

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Speaker 2: ever communicated. I have had people where we've had a

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Speaker 2: conversation at the end and I was like, no, I

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Speaker 2: didn't want this to be a date, and that it

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Speaker 2: worked out. But a lot of times they'll never even

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Speaker 2: bring that up, like it's just like, oh, I told

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Speaker 2: everyone we're dating. I'm like, really, that's news to me.

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Speaker 2: So weird because then now you have to break up,

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Speaker 2: like it's a way of like trapping you in, right, Yeah,

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Speaker 2: because ultimately, and I do get this to some extent,

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Speaker 2: it's like a fear of rejection. So you're sort of,

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Speaker 2: as you said, testing the waters. But that feels so

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Speaker 2: manipulative of like.

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Speaker 1: That's not we're dating. That is controlling mm hmmm. That's

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Speaker 1: a like power play. I'm not giving you a choice.

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Speaker 2: And now you've got to talk to their friends and

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Speaker 2: be like, ah, no, we aren't dating. Like the next

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Speaker 2: one is posing as a career. Ally, this has happened

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Speaker 2: to me, and it sucks a lot of these next

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Speaker 2: few ones are about jobs. So this has happened to me.

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Speaker 2: In acting, especially, a will pose as like, Okay, we're

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Speaker 2: gonna help you, you know, because it's such a competitive field.

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Speaker 2: We'll help you get this or this or this, or

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Speaker 2: I'll introduce you to my contacts or whatever it is.

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Speaker 2: And I had a guy who was supposedly like pretty

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Speaker 2: high up. I have my doubts looking back, but he

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Speaker 2: seemed like he was. And he was telling he was

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Speaker 2: trying to give me a lesson on like kissing, and

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Speaker 2: he shoved me against the wall and kissed me and

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Speaker 2: said like this is, you know, good for you, Like

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Speaker 2: this is you have to learn how to act, and

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Speaker 2: had to be passionate. And I walked home and I

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Speaker 2: cried the whole way because that was when I was like, okay,

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Speaker 2: that guy, because he asked me to dinner, I thought

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Speaker 2: it was a career thing, and it just became clear.

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Speaker 1: Like oh yeah, that happened to me once too.

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Speaker 2: Mm hmm.

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Speaker 1: They asked to have lunch, and he was the dude

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Speaker 1: that was like thirty years older than me. I had

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Speaker 1: a kid, probably close to my age, and I was like,

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Speaker 1: what's going on? I thought you were just telling me

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Speaker 1: how to become a counselor, right, and then he asked

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Speaker 1: me on another date and I was like, we had

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Speaker 1: a date one what?

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Speaker 2: Right? Wait a minute, what, let's back up a second.

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Speaker 1: Mm hmm.

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Speaker 2: That's a really popular one, and it's really unfortunate because.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, a lot of these are like very much border

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Speaker 1: along the lines of the people who are going to

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Speaker 1: kidnap or rape you, especially assault you. Like literally all

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Speaker 1: of these things, right, sound like this borderline like cuter

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Speaker 1: version right right? What people isolate you to do? These

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Speaker 1: things have power over you to like exploit you.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. Well the next one is posing as a career mentor,

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Speaker 2: which was related, and I think that feels a lot

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Speaker 2: more like that's your boss who's like, oh, I'm taking

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Speaker 2: special interest in you. I can help you learn this,

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Speaker 2: this and this, and then that becomes like, well if

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Speaker 2: you stay after, we can go have dinner and do this.

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Speaker 2: But it's much it's not about mentoring you, it's about

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Speaker 2: getting you into a relationship. I have also had that

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Speaker 2: happen in acting. I kind of had it happen early

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Speaker 2: on in my days as an intern, but luckily I

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Speaker 2: was near some people who shut it down really quick,

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Speaker 2: really quick, so always appreciate when you have a good

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Speaker 2: support of friends who are looking out. And then this one,

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Speaker 2: I bet a lot of people can relate to pretending

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Speaker 2: it's about the hobby. So I feel like this one

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Speaker 2: is a bit murky in terms of a lot of

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Speaker 2: times you can meet people over a hobby and you

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Speaker 2: bond over that, and maybe you do decide to date

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Speaker 2: over that. But going back to that trickery aspect, that's

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Speaker 2: sort of the key is like, I just want to like,

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Speaker 2: there's even been kind of a joke, you know that

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Speaker 2: people will pick up hobbies just to date certain people.

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Speaker 1: I still like the recent I don't know what that is,

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Speaker 1: but I'm willing to try it to you, right, and

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Speaker 1: him being so far off of what it was, You're like, Bro,

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Speaker 1: it's so bad that means a be this is gross.

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Speaker 1: I'm just wrong with your thinking it a hobby art kink.

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Speaker 2: Right, Yeah, that's the way off. Oh boy, oh dear,

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Speaker 2: and I have had I've had plenty of examples of this.

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Speaker 2: I think one of the biggest ones I've talked about

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Speaker 2: before is when I if anyone finds out I like

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Speaker 2: Marvel or Star Wars, then I'm like the coolest, not

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Speaker 2: like other girls. Person I can imagine D and D

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Speaker 2: was the same, and in fact, I was in a

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Speaker 2: very ill fated It wasn't a relationship, but it was something,

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Speaker 2: and it was based on D and D, and it

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Speaker 2: was kind of being used to make this relationship happen

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Speaker 2: that I again was like wait what WHOA? And then

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Speaker 2: I had a guy ask me once because I was complaining.

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Speaker 1: So this.

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Speaker 2: I was complaining about how men back when I was

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Speaker 2: running would stop me to talk to me, and I

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Speaker 2: would get so annoyed because I'm like, I'm running, like

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Speaker 2: this is not I'm not looking to have a conversation

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Speaker 2: right now. And one time a guy asked me out,

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Speaker 2: he like stopped me and asked me out, and I'm

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Speaker 2: like no, And the person I was talking to, who

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Speaker 2: was a dude, was like, so there can't be, Like,

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Speaker 2: there's no instance that would work, And we got into

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Speaker 2: an interesting conversation about that where it was like not

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Speaker 2: for me because like that just feels so disruptive. But

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Speaker 2: he was saying like, well, this guy must have been

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Speaker 2: so moved and he had to talk to you right then,

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Speaker 2: and I was like, well all he did was annoy me,

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Speaker 2: so go work.

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Speaker 1: This is when like the language barrier was like very apparent. Again,

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Speaker 1: like between the women's expectations and wants and men's expectations

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Speaker 1: and wants, was like, especially what the heteronormative ideas. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and then you put in queer people and this is

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Speaker 1: a whole different language in itself. You're like, yeah, you

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Speaker 1: don't understand, and this is why this is a problem, right.

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Speaker 2: Well, and that was it was one of the things

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Speaker 2: that I was like, yeah, I guess this guy thought

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Speaker 2: that was romantic. But women, you know, as women we've

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Speaker 2: talked about in a running episodes, you can get bettapped

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Speaker 2: just running around like you're always on edge. So this

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Speaker 2: guy coming up to me, I was immediately like, oh, right.

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Speaker 1: What you think is cute feels very like threatening to us, right.

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Speaker 2: Yes, yes, Like you felt confident enough to make sure

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Speaker 2: I stopped when I had like headphones in and was running,

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Speaker 2: was in the zone to stop me and ask for

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Speaker 2: a date.

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Speaker 1: And then when you don't know me all you see me, yeah,

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Speaker 1: and I you know.

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Speaker 2: Not that it matters, but I didn't look great.

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Speaker 1: Well, there's so many questions to being just instead of

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Speaker 1: like wanting to get to know I guess I guess

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Speaker 1: that's what they say dating is, and my mind dating

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Speaker 1: is a little more official, yeah than that than the

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Speaker 1: getting to know you part. Maybe the whole world of

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Speaker 1: online dating has messed up my uh point of view.

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Speaker 1: But like to come up be like I'm attracted to

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Speaker 1: you from jump Like right, this seems insincere or you

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Speaker 1: seem like you have some other agenda and it's not.

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Speaker 2: Cute right right, because like how much could you know

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Speaker 2: from just somebody running?

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Speaker 1: Right? You know nothing about me. I don't know if

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Speaker 1: I'm in a relationship. And again like you're trying to

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Speaker 1: take a chance, but not the way we like it, no,

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Speaker 1: most of us.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and when it comes to like the tricking of

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Speaker 2: the date. I did have a guy who started running

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Speaker 2: because of me, and he started asking for let's run together,

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Speaker 2: which I hate running together. Yeah, I hate.

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Speaker 1: Running with people. It makes me anxious. And then like

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Speaker 1: they don't keep up with me, I have to stay put.

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Speaker 1: If I can't keep up with them, I feel bad

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Speaker 1: for them.

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Speaker 2: Right. Yes, I've always said to people who like want

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Speaker 2: to run with me, I'm like, well, you can run

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Speaker 2: at the same time, but we're not running together, Like

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Speaker 2: I'm going to do my face.

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Speaker 1: That's it what I get people into doing races with me.

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Speaker 1: I'm like, yeah, we're just gonna go right, We'll wait,

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Speaker 1: I'll find you at the endpoint.

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Speaker 2: Right, yep. I think that's the way to go with

341
00:19:08,840 --> 00:19:14,239
Speaker 2: something at But apparently that is not romantic. I did

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00:19:15,080 --> 00:19:17,119
Speaker 2: if people were laughing at me once when I was

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Speaker 2: I kissed my ex boyfriend before the peach She Road

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Speaker 2: race and then he went way to the back and

345
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Speaker 2: I went way to the front, and people laughed at me,

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Speaker 2: and I was like, no, if I have this front

347
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Speaker 2: starting wave, I'm not going back the hell.

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Speaker 1: Thanks, I earned the spot. All done.

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Speaker 2: It's hot here, jeez. But yeah, I think to their credit,

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Speaker 2: I am surprised they ran as much as they did

351
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Speaker 2: and that they kept up with it. But damn, like

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00:19:43,640 --> 00:19:46,480
Speaker 2: that's kind of it's a lot of effort to put

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Speaker 2: it it is. Another tactic is saying that they need

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Speaker 2: career help. I have gotten this one as well. Luckily

355
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Speaker 2: for me in that case, I was so like oblivious

356
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Speaker 2: to it that I think that person gave up. They

357
00:20:05,960 --> 00:20:12,760
Speaker 2: were like, Okay, this is not gonna work. Another asking

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Speaker 2: for dating advice, and yes, I have gotten this one

359
00:20:15,480 --> 00:20:20,320
Speaker 2: a lot, or how you like sex, or your opinions

360
00:20:20,320 --> 00:20:22,600
Speaker 2: about dating and sex. These are all sort of like,

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Speaker 2: let's come closer, have this conversation, and then let's see

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Speaker 2: if I could make this a date.

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00:20:32,240 --> 00:20:35,520
Speaker 1: I inadvertently flirt with that I don't mean to, I

364
00:20:35,560 --> 00:20:38,680
Speaker 1: apparently have. I've been told by friends who if I'm

365
00:20:38,680 --> 00:20:41,439
Speaker 1: not interested in you, I apparently seem very flirty. And

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Speaker 1: this is for women and men. I've been like, because

367
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Speaker 1: I'm just if I'm comfortable with you, I'm gonna tease you.

368
00:20:48,000 --> 00:20:50,040
Speaker 1: I'm gonna do all these things, and then I'm going

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Speaker 1: to try to help you if you like a person.

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Speaker 1: And I in my mind, I'm just being natural. But

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Speaker 1: that seems flirty. And I did not know that to

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Speaker 1: the point that my partner and I that at that

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Speaker 1: very beginning was our relationship. I was trying to help

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Speaker 1: him out with a girl. He still thinks I was flirting,

375
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Speaker 1: and I'm like, I really wasn't.

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Speaker 2: Right.

377
00:21:08,520 --> 00:21:10,920
Speaker 1: It ended up like we ended up because he took

378
00:21:11,000 --> 00:21:13,919
Speaker 1: that sign of flirting, but I was like, huh, I

379
00:21:14,000 --> 00:21:14,720
Speaker 1: really wasn't.

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00:21:15,200 --> 00:21:17,840
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean that's going back to your like we're

381
00:21:18,240 --> 00:21:21,720
Speaker 2: almost like speaking different, we're on different ways.

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00:21:22,760 --> 00:21:25,879
Speaker 1: I heard it's a libra thing to do. Okay, apparently

383
00:21:25,920 --> 00:21:28,320
Speaker 1: because I if I I'm that person that if I'm

384
00:21:28,640 --> 00:21:31,679
Speaker 1: shy and getting nervous around you, that's how you know

385
00:21:31,720 --> 00:21:35,600
Speaker 1: I like you because I'm trying too hard and I'm

386
00:21:35,680 --> 00:21:37,280
Speaker 1: very nervous and I probably would just stare at you

387
00:21:37,320 --> 00:21:40,560
Speaker 1: and run away. But if I'm very confident in like

388
00:21:40,680 --> 00:21:43,320
Speaker 1: just teasing giggly, yeah, I don't have interest in you,

389
00:21:43,359 --> 00:21:45,199
Speaker 1: and just has gotten me in trouble a lot. I

390
00:21:45,240 --> 00:21:46,199
Speaker 1: did not realize this.

391
00:21:46,520 --> 00:21:50,480
Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, uh, me too. And I feel like there's

392
00:21:50,520 --> 00:21:54,280
Speaker 2: a weird thing that happens where it's sort of going

393
00:21:54,320 --> 00:21:56,119
Speaker 2: back to that testing the waters where dudes will be

394
00:21:56,200 --> 00:21:58,840
Speaker 2: like I had this one guy who just asked me

395
00:21:58,920 --> 00:22:02,560
Speaker 2: randomly like when is your favorite time to have sex? Yeah,

396
00:22:02,560 --> 00:22:05,960
Speaker 2: and I'd be like this time. And there's a weird

397
00:22:05,960 --> 00:22:08,000
Speaker 2: thing that's going on where it's like I'm trying to

398
00:22:08,040 --> 00:22:12,399
Speaker 2: not be a frud. I also am not interested, but

399
00:22:12,440 --> 00:22:16,639
Speaker 2: I feel like it's that like, Okay, she's down, she's

400
00:22:17,119 --> 00:22:23,480
Speaker 2: down to So that is definitely one I've seen. Another

401
00:22:24,119 --> 00:22:26,600
Speaker 2: posing as your friend. This one can also get messy

402
00:22:26,600 --> 00:22:28,239
Speaker 2: because sometimes a lot of times you start out as

403
00:22:28,240 --> 00:22:32,240
Speaker 2: friends and then it becomes a relationship. It's more that

404
00:22:32,440 --> 00:22:35,280
Speaker 2: going in you one person always wanted it to be

405
00:22:35,320 --> 00:22:39,520
Speaker 2: a relationship or realized that they did and then never

406
00:22:39,560 --> 00:22:44,760
Speaker 2: said anything. This is one of the this I've probably

407
00:22:45,000 --> 00:22:50,720
Speaker 2: experienced this one the most, and it frustrates me because

408
00:22:51,119 --> 00:22:53,280
Speaker 2: this episode of Only Murders in the Building had this

409
00:22:53,359 --> 00:22:57,480
Speaker 2: like exact thing where I wanted to go to a

410
00:22:57,480 --> 00:23:01,959
Speaker 2: fancy restaurant and this guy I was like, oh, yeah, yeah,

411
00:23:02,000 --> 00:23:04,120
Speaker 2: I've always wanted to go to let's go. I dress

412
00:23:04,160 --> 00:23:06,640
Speaker 2: up because it's a fancy restaurant. I later found out

413
00:23:06,720 --> 00:23:08,760
Speaker 2: everyone on his side was like, well she wore that

414
00:23:08,840 --> 00:23:11,720
Speaker 2: dress obviously it was a date, Like no, I could

415
00:23:11,800 --> 00:23:14,760
Speaker 2: dress just for me one, but two it has a

416
00:23:14,880 --> 00:23:15,920
Speaker 2: dress code like I.

417
00:23:16,000 --> 00:23:23,840
Speaker 1: Was literally I had to follow the rules, me saying

418
00:23:23,840 --> 00:23:26,880
Speaker 1: we're on a date. Right. There's so many things, and

419
00:23:26,920 --> 00:23:29,679
Speaker 1: this is where the idea that men and women, especially

420
00:23:29,800 --> 00:23:34,679
Speaker 1: in the heteronormative ideas or environment cannot be friends.

421
00:23:35,840 --> 00:23:36,280
Speaker 2: M hmm.

422
00:23:36,359 --> 00:23:37,760
Speaker 1: That's where it comes from.

423
00:23:37,960 --> 00:23:39,680
Speaker 2: It does come from me, and it's.

424
00:23:39,280 --> 00:23:44,000
Speaker 1: Like part part society, part expectations, part hope, like egerness,

425
00:23:44,359 --> 00:23:47,320
Speaker 1: like falling into it like well naturally we should be

426
00:23:47,440 --> 00:23:50,520
Speaker 1: like my good guy friend and I who before he

427
00:23:50,600 --> 00:23:53,320
Speaker 1: got married into a serious relationship, we were always paired

428
00:23:53,359 --> 00:23:56,240
Speaker 1: together and like, why don't y'all date? Why don't y'all date?

429
00:23:56,280 --> 00:23:58,320
Speaker 1: And the explanation is, we love each other, but we

430
00:23:58,320 --> 00:24:01,320
Speaker 1: would kill each other as a real life couple. Like

431
00:24:01,760 --> 00:24:04,800
Speaker 1: the understanding is sure, sure, sure, we are very similar,

432
00:24:04,840 --> 00:24:08,960
Speaker 1: we are fun, we make everything fun, we have great chemistry,

433
00:24:09,080 --> 00:24:11,800
Speaker 1: but we also understand the levels that we have with

434
00:24:11,880 --> 00:24:16,320
Speaker 1: each other, and it wouldn't work. And I think it

435
00:24:16,359 --> 00:24:18,680
Speaker 1: did come to the point that at one point in time,

436
00:24:18,800 --> 00:24:21,520
Speaker 1: at the very beginning of our friendship, one of us

437
00:24:22,480 --> 00:24:24,919
Speaker 1: may have had that failing right, but it never but

438
00:24:24,960 --> 00:24:28,280
Speaker 1: it just passed by. So again that's that level of like, so,

439
00:24:28,320 --> 00:24:31,600
Speaker 1: can you truly be just friends your guy friend?

440
00:24:33,800 --> 00:24:37,359
Speaker 2: Yes? And I've had some very interesting conversations with my

441
00:24:37,359 --> 00:24:38,159
Speaker 2: guy friends about that.

442
00:24:40,600 --> 00:24:42,960
Speaker 1: And again that's the things like when they're in a relationship,

443
00:24:43,000 --> 00:24:45,200
Speaker 1: you think you can yes, but then.

444
00:24:46,680 --> 00:24:49,919
Speaker 2: Yes, more often than not thousand times yes, I'm so

445
00:24:50,040 --> 00:24:53,359
Speaker 2: often like, well, obviously they're in a committed relationship. I

446
00:24:53,400 --> 00:25:07,359
Speaker 2: don't need to worry. Nope, should have been worried. Another

447
00:25:07,400 --> 00:25:10,120
Speaker 2: one of the tactics listed was looking for a shoulder

448
00:25:10,160 --> 00:25:13,639
Speaker 2: to cry on. This could be complaining about their significant

449
00:25:13,680 --> 00:25:18,360
Speaker 2: other partner. I have definitely had this, And then I've

450
00:25:18,359 --> 00:25:20,440
Speaker 2: had the very galling experience of me and trying to

451
00:25:20,480 --> 00:25:23,760
Speaker 2: talk about my feelings and being dismissed. So it's very

452
00:25:23,840 --> 00:25:27,560
Speaker 2: much like, oh, well, you were there for me, so

453
00:25:27,600 --> 00:25:30,399
Speaker 2: it means this to me, you must really care. But

454
00:25:30,440 --> 00:25:35,199
Speaker 2: then when I'm trying to like have a reciprocal friendship, no,

455
00:25:35,480 --> 00:25:39,160
Speaker 2: I don't want to hear about your earish or I'm

456
00:25:39,200 --> 00:25:43,919
Speaker 2: owed because I sat there and listened to you, right, yep, yep.

457
00:25:44,680 --> 00:25:48,399
Speaker 2: Another one asking for shopping advice. I have definitely gotten

458
00:25:48,400 --> 00:25:50,200
Speaker 2: this one. I'm surprised it came up on the list,

459
00:25:50,320 --> 00:25:56,040
Speaker 2: but yeah, yep. It's like I don't know anything about fashion.

460
00:25:56,200 --> 00:26:00,000
Speaker 2: Can you please come help me? Okay, I don't really

461
00:26:00,080 --> 00:26:00,480
Speaker 2: know either.

462
00:26:00,800 --> 00:26:03,160
Speaker 1: Let's go right, I'll tell you what looks good.

463
00:26:03,520 --> 00:26:07,040
Speaker 2: Right. And then it becomes this date that you went

464
00:26:07,119 --> 00:26:12,679
Speaker 2: on the plus one trick, which is, yeah, it's exactly

465
00:26:12,720 --> 00:26:14,000
Speaker 2: what it sounds like. It's you know, I don't want

466
00:26:14,000 --> 00:26:15,480
Speaker 2: to go to the setting alone when you come with me,

467
00:26:16,080 --> 00:26:21,560
Speaker 2: and then yep, you're you're dating now. I guess.

468
00:26:22,880 --> 00:26:25,080
Speaker 1: The twickest with the again, with all of these things

469
00:26:25,080 --> 00:26:27,119
Speaker 1: because I've also done it with just friends. Yeah, and

470
00:26:27,160 --> 00:26:29,399
Speaker 1: it's been fine. So the fine part is we know

471
00:26:29,480 --> 00:26:33,919
Speaker 1: that the line has already been established, so all of

472
00:26:33,920 --> 00:26:37,280
Speaker 1: that is fine. And then but then like, yeah, that's

473
00:26:37,280 --> 00:26:38,920
Speaker 1: that whole level of they're new. That's when you should

474
00:26:38,920 --> 00:26:42,720
Speaker 1: be really like hesitant, like I have only met you

475
00:26:42,760 --> 00:26:45,160
Speaker 1: for two weeks. This is not gonna work, right.

476
00:26:46,920 --> 00:26:53,960
Speaker 2: There's also this one maybe laugh offering to help fix something. Yep, yep, yep.

477
00:26:55,359 --> 00:26:57,280
Speaker 1: I'm not gonna lie all these things I've done with

478
00:26:57,320 --> 00:27:00,800
Speaker 1: my partner at the very beginning of our relationships, like everything.

479
00:27:00,480 --> 00:27:04,280
Speaker 2: Well, see again, it goes back to it is tricky,

480
00:27:04,359 --> 00:27:07,960
Speaker 2: but it is that very specific, like you're going in

481
00:27:08,040 --> 00:27:10,679
Speaker 2: with another intention in mind, as opposed to something that

482
00:27:10,760 --> 00:27:14,840
Speaker 2: just happens naturally, right, or that you discuss. So I

483
00:27:14,880 --> 00:27:17,400
Speaker 2: actually have a really funny story about this. My ex

484
00:27:17,480 --> 00:27:21,840
Speaker 2: boyfriend just ended up staying at my apartment a lot,

485
00:27:21,880 --> 00:27:23,679
Speaker 2: and I wouldn't let him sleep in my bed because

486
00:27:23,800 --> 00:27:27,320
Speaker 2: we weren't dating at the time. He was friends. And

487
00:27:27,400 --> 00:27:30,080
Speaker 2: eventually I was like, I guess I'll get like another

488
00:27:30,280 --> 00:27:33,320
Speaker 2: a futon in case people stay and I'll have a

489
00:27:34,200 --> 00:27:37,320
Speaker 2: and he came over to help me set it up,

490
00:27:38,080 --> 00:27:43,879
Speaker 2: and here I am oblivious Annie not realize he's like

491
00:27:44,000 --> 00:27:48,280
Speaker 2: intending he's helping me set up this futon for him

492
00:27:48,359 --> 00:27:52,040
Speaker 2: to sleep on when that's not what he wanted.

493
00:27:52,280 --> 00:27:55,280
Speaker 1: Right right, But I mean that's a clear sign. We're like, no,

494
00:27:55,359 --> 00:27:59,159
Speaker 1: you sleep here because we're friends. So I feel like

495
00:27:59,200 --> 00:28:02,000
Speaker 1: you should have known. And if he didn't, he was

496
00:28:02,000 --> 00:28:02,560
Speaker 1: too pushy.

497
00:28:03,200 --> 00:28:05,640
Speaker 2: Yeah, well I still have this day.

498
00:28:05,800 --> 00:28:08,320
Speaker 1: Yeah, he just didn't want to accept it.

499
00:28:08,840 --> 00:28:12,440
Speaker 2: Mm hmmm. And again this one, like there's a there's

500
00:28:12,480 --> 00:28:15,240
Speaker 2: that joke in the office about you know, how Jim

501
00:28:15,280 --> 00:28:17,320
Speaker 2: knew how to drive stick but he like pretended he

502
00:28:17,359 --> 00:28:20,479
Speaker 2: didn't so he and Pam could spend more time together.

503
00:28:21,480 --> 00:28:23,520
Speaker 2: I do think that that there is a way to

504
00:28:23,560 --> 00:28:27,760
Speaker 2: do it where it's not so nefarious and tricksy, but yeah,

505
00:28:27,960 --> 00:28:34,200
Speaker 2: it can definitely be a tactic. And another one I

506
00:28:34,280 --> 00:28:39,360
Speaker 2: you'd love my other woman friend. I have seen this one.

507
00:28:40,000 --> 00:28:41,760
Speaker 2: I've seen this one where it's like you would be

508
00:28:41,800 --> 00:28:47,040
Speaker 2: good friends with my friend and it's and the usually

509
00:28:47,120 --> 00:28:49,960
Speaker 2: the woman friend is in on it. She knows that

510
00:28:50,000 --> 00:28:54,720
Speaker 2: this is supposed to be a date, and she's like facilitating.

511
00:28:54,000 --> 00:28:56,680
Speaker 1: She's a wingman. M hm, wing woman.

512
00:28:57,440 --> 00:29:02,200
Speaker 2: Yes, then there's letting you show him the ropes, which

513
00:29:02,200 --> 00:29:05,280
Speaker 2: is sort of like the office thing, golfing.

514
00:29:05,320 --> 00:29:09,280
Speaker 1: Yes, let me show you how to hold the golf club.

515
00:29:12,160 --> 00:29:14,440
Speaker 2: The fitness buddy, which we've already kind of talked about,

516
00:29:14,920 --> 00:29:17,920
Speaker 2: and then the pet play, which is I didn't know this,

517
00:29:17,920 --> 00:29:19,240
Speaker 2: it's called dog fishing.

518
00:29:19,240 --> 00:29:22,560
Speaker 1: But it's like, yes, I've seen that one.

519
00:29:23,360 --> 00:29:29,960
Speaker 2: Yes, yes, So there's a multitude of tactics people employ.

520
00:29:30,480 --> 00:29:32,239
Speaker 1: There's so many things to this because it could be

521
00:29:32,280 --> 00:29:35,240
Speaker 1: like the like, yes, this is the friendly, flirty side,

522
00:29:35,240 --> 00:29:37,400
Speaker 1: and then this could get dark very quickly. It's such

523
00:29:37,400 --> 00:29:41,560
Speaker 1: a wide range and wide scope of usage for these things.

524
00:29:41,840 --> 00:29:45,920
Speaker 2: Yeah. Well, and it made me think about like, because

525
00:29:45,960 --> 00:29:49,560
Speaker 2: I also can be flirty. I enjoy flirting, but for

526
00:29:49,640 --> 00:29:53,760
Speaker 2: me it doesn't necessarily mean anything, and I get that

527
00:29:53,760 --> 00:29:55,680
Speaker 2: that can be confusing. Like I totally do get that,

528
00:29:55,800 --> 00:29:58,200
Speaker 2: And I've even joked about my friends have said they

529
00:29:58,240 --> 00:30:00,840
Speaker 2: would make a business card that's like it's not interested.

530
00:30:01,160 --> 00:30:03,920
Speaker 2: But a part of a part of the problem is

531
00:30:04,640 --> 00:30:07,040
Speaker 2: we've talked about it before. But this idea like we

532
00:30:07,240 --> 00:30:10,720
Speaker 2: can't reject the man outright get mad and this very

533
00:30:10,720 --> 00:30:13,040
Speaker 2: head noormaive sense because you're afraid you feel like you

534
00:30:13,080 --> 00:30:15,400
Speaker 2: have to let them down easy, and so I feel

535
00:30:15,400 --> 00:30:19,240
Speaker 2: like something. There's two things that are largely at play,

536
00:30:19,280 --> 00:30:21,960
Speaker 2: two major forces, which is this like fear of rejection.

537
00:30:23,320 --> 00:30:28,880
Speaker 2: I need a woman, how do I trick her into dating?

538
00:30:29,520 --> 00:30:31,840
Speaker 2: And then on the other side, in very heteronormal of sense,

539
00:30:32,680 --> 00:30:36,360
Speaker 2: the woman feeling like she has to be kind of

540
00:30:36,360 --> 00:30:39,160
Speaker 2: flirty or kind of playful or something like can't let

541
00:30:39,240 --> 00:30:44,000
Speaker 2: him down outright, has to be So it's just coming

542
00:30:44,000 --> 00:30:47,400
Speaker 2: together in a real mess to the real mess and

543
00:30:47,520 --> 00:30:50,200
Speaker 2: kind of being romantic. It's done major TV shows.

544
00:30:50,120 --> 00:30:54,400
Speaker 1: Right, interesting, I mean it's always been a trope this whole. Yeah,

545
00:30:54,440 --> 00:30:58,680
Speaker 1: it is friend lovers uh huh, neighbor delivers, like any

546
00:30:58,760 --> 00:31:01,320
Speaker 1: of these things. I'm a common stations and you know

547
00:31:01,960 --> 00:31:04,760
Speaker 1: women have used some of these things as well, and

548
00:31:04,800 --> 00:31:06,800
Speaker 1: the queer people use these things as well, like come

549
00:31:06,880 --> 00:31:09,080
Speaker 1: fix this for me, Come do this for me? Can

550
00:31:09,120 --> 00:31:11,840
Speaker 1: you do this? Oh I'm helpless again? Not a bad

551
00:31:11,840 --> 00:31:17,280
Speaker 1: thing if it's consensual, yeah, and there's already play but

552
00:31:17,360 --> 00:31:20,800
Speaker 1: like yeah, typically strangers doing this is odd. Yeah, and

553
00:31:20,840 --> 00:31:23,000
Speaker 1: if you've already been rejected once, try to trick them.

554
00:31:23,960 --> 00:31:26,520
Speaker 2: Yes, And it's very much in the like like what

555
00:31:26,520 --> 00:31:27,960
Speaker 2: we've talked about with in cels in kind of the

556
00:31:28,000 --> 00:31:30,760
Speaker 2: con man space, like the pickup artist kind of thing.

557
00:31:31,360 --> 00:31:34,640
Speaker 2: This is much more that and much less like I

558
00:31:34,680 --> 00:31:37,240
Speaker 2: don't know your friend who's kind of you've been friends

559
00:31:37,240 --> 00:31:39,240
Speaker 2: for a while. Maybe one of you is like, maybe

560
00:31:39,280 --> 00:31:42,320
Speaker 2: there's something here, like that's a there. There is nuance

561
00:31:42,320 --> 00:31:44,840
Speaker 2: and differences in this conversation, but this is like the

562
00:31:44,960 --> 00:31:49,520
Speaker 2: deliberate I will I can trick this person to.

563
00:31:49,600 --> 00:31:54,280
Speaker 1: Die, me right saying, try to trick you into dating someone? Yes,

564
00:31:54,400 --> 00:32:00,880
Speaker 1: which has happened to me. Yeah, boyfriend, oh dear, kind

565
00:32:00,920 --> 00:32:05,640
Speaker 1: of funny, kind of poor guy.

566
00:32:07,600 --> 00:32:12,120
Speaker 2: Fo car. Well, clearly we had a lot to say.

567
00:32:12,160 --> 00:32:14,280
Speaker 2: This one went a little longer, but I just when

568
00:32:14,280 --> 00:32:19,920
Speaker 2: I saw that plot point, I was like, but yeah,

569
00:32:19,960 --> 00:32:22,240
Speaker 2: I'm sure listeners a lot of you can relate. If

570
00:32:22,240 --> 00:32:24,840
Speaker 2: there's one we missed, or if you have any stories

571
00:32:24,880 --> 00:32:28,520
Speaker 2: you'd like to share. You can contact us in a

572
00:32:28,600 --> 00:32:31,800
Speaker 2: variety of ways. You can email us at Stephania mom

573
00:32:31,880 --> 00:32:34,000
Speaker 2: Stuff at iHeartMedia dot com. You can find us on

574
00:32:34,040 --> 00:32:36,400
Speaker 2: Twitter at Momstuff podcast, or on Instagram and TikTok at

575
00:32:36,440 --> 00:32:38,480
Speaker 2: stuff I Never told you. We have a tea public

576
00:32:38,520 --> 00:32:41,320
Speaker 2: store and a book that you can get at stuff

577
00:32:41,360 --> 00:32:44,320
Speaker 2: you should read books dot com. Thanks as always to

578
00:32:44,360 --> 00:32:46,800
Speaker 2: our super producer Christina, our executive producer Maya, and our

579
00:32:46,800 --> 00:32:47,560
Speaker 2: contributor Joey.

580
00:32:47,680 --> 00:32:49,640
Speaker 1: Thank you and thanks to you for listening.

581
00:32:49,760 --> 00:32:51,520
Speaker 2: Stefan Never Told You is production of by Heart Radio.

582
00:32:51,520 --> 00:32:53,040
Speaker 2: For more podcasts on my heart Radio, you can check

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