WEBVTT - Bishop T.D. Jakes on Dual Crises 0:00:00.160 --> 0:00:03.760 This is Bloomberg Business Week with Carol Masser and Jason 0:00:03.840 --> 0:00:08.920 Kelly on Bloomberg Radio. We are so lucky and fortunate 0:00:08.960 --> 0:00:11.239 that we are able to spend some time with our 0:00:11.280 --> 0:00:13.480 next guest. He's back with us. Bishop T. D. Jake's 0:00:13.560 --> 0:00:16.720 chairman of the T. D. Jake's Foundation. He's the pastor 0:00:16.920 --> 0:00:20.960 of the Potter's House. That's a nondenominational American church down 0:00:21.040 --> 0:00:23.840 in Dallas. He's an author, he's an entrepreneur, he's an educator. 0:00:23.920 --> 0:00:25.800 He was nice enough to spend some time with us 0:00:26.160 --> 0:00:29.240 earlier this year. Back then we were talking about education. 0:00:29.720 --> 0:00:32.320 Bishop Jake's. I don't think any of us could have 0:00:32.320 --> 0:00:36.919 anticipated what would happen between us seeing you then and 0:00:36.960 --> 0:00:39.440 talking to you now. First of all, how are you? 0:00:39.520 --> 0:00:41.920 How are you doing him? At all? This I'm doing 0:00:42.000 --> 0:00:44.559 real of course, Lilliam. They're eating a storm down here 0:00:44.560 --> 0:00:47.760 in Texas. But yeah, that's probably been doing pretty well. 0:00:47.800 --> 0:00:50.840 And thanks for having me back when I'm really honored. Well, 0:00:50.880 --> 0:00:52.639 tell us about that a little bit if you, if 0:00:52.640 --> 0:00:55.040 you don't mind. We've been, you know, talking to so 0:00:55.040 --> 0:00:57.400 many guests around the world, around the country, though in 0:00:57.440 --> 0:01:00.280 particular about what they're seeing, especially when it comes to 0:01:00.320 --> 0:01:02.320 the virus. Tell us about the impact that's having on 0:01:02.440 --> 0:01:05.920 the communities that you're so familiar with. Well, I can 0:01:05.920 --> 0:01:07.840 put it this way. In the last two and a 0:01:07.920 --> 0:01:10.120 half weeks, I haven't had a day go by that 0:01:10.200 --> 0:01:15.119 I haven't gotten called it somebody done. Uh So, being 0:01:15.120 --> 0:01:17.400 a pastor, you can get a front row seed at 0:01:17.640 --> 0:01:21.360 at the at the final services. And uh so it 0:01:21.920 --> 0:01:26.399 is disastrous right now. The numbers are really high. The 0:01:26.480 --> 0:01:32.479 death rates are escalating again, lack of brown communities are 0:01:32.560 --> 0:01:38.520 disproportionately hit and so that trauma from that hits very strongly. 0:01:38.520 --> 0:01:40.920 Are my clergy because there are people that we know 0:01:41.160 --> 0:01:44.520 or related to people that we know, And I literally 0:01:44.520 --> 0:01:46.399 haven't had a day go by that I haven't gotten 0:01:46.400 --> 0:01:50.960 a phone call like that. And so I don't I mean, 0:01:51.640 --> 0:01:55.000 this is a tough question to answer, I know, but 0:01:55.200 --> 0:01:57.520 what do you say to people that, Bishop James, I mean, 0:01:57.680 --> 0:02:01.040 you're having these conversations every day. Is what is your 0:02:01.080 --> 0:02:05.200 message to to them, especially given exactly what you said 0:02:05.320 --> 0:02:10.320 that disproportionality here, that this is affecting uh you know, 0:02:10.360 --> 0:02:13.240 black and brown people at a much much higher rate 0:02:13.320 --> 0:02:17.079 that that is just inarguable at this moment. I think 0:02:17.120 --> 0:02:20.079 that we cannot rely on our elected officials to make 0:02:20.120 --> 0:02:23.520 the determinations for our health and well being. Given that 0:02:23.600 --> 0:02:28.000 we're disproportionately affecting, we have to be disproportionately careful. And 0:02:28.040 --> 0:02:31.839 I've been telling people just too distance the sales, uh 0:02:32.080 --> 0:02:36.359 to use common sense to avoid close gatherings and celebrations. 0:02:36.400 --> 0:02:38.079 We have a tendency to think that if we know 0:02:38.240 --> 0:02:40.800 people well, they ought to be safe to be around. 0:02:40.840 --> 0:02:43.280 But that's not true right now, and it's a new normal, 0:02:43.639 --> 0:02:46.120 and it's requiring a discipline that we're not used to, 0:02:46.240 --> 0:02:50.040 but it's necessary in order to keep a well being up. 0:02:50.120 --> 0:02:54.000 And then I've had several people that have contracted and recovered, 0:02:54.360 --> 0:02:56.200 so you know, on the good side of it, we 0:02:56.240 --> 0:02:59.639 are seeing some recoveries and some success stories. But I 0:02:59.720 --> 0:03:02.000 think it is a great deal of apprehension and faces 0:03:02.160 --> 0:03:05.360 right now as it relates to the blondness of the 0:03:05.400 --> 0:03:09.639 follow of this particular pandemic. I do wonder too, how 0:03:09.680 --> 0:03:13.120 you see it Bishop Jake's, especially since you know Jason 0:03:13.120 --> 0:03:15.440 and I talk. You know, we're in eighteen nineteen weeks 0:03:15.440 --> 0:03:18.440 of lockdown. Essentially for the most part, we have been 0:03:18.560 --> 0:03:22.519 at home almost exclusively. Um as our offices have yet 0:03:22.560 --> 0:03:25.799 to really reopen here in New York City. Uh, it's 0:03:25.840 --> 0:03:28.840 a slow move back. But I do wonder are you 0:03:28.880 --> 0:03:31.680 a little angry that you know, if there was a 0:03:31.680 --> 0:03:34.920 lot that we've learned through what happened with the virus 0:03:34.960 --> 0:03:37.760 on the East Coast that we could not or should 0:03:37.840 --> 0:03:41.320 should have been smarter as a nation, especially when we know, 0:03:41.440 --> 0:03:45.600 as you said, those communities that are disproportionately affected. You 0:03:45.600 --> 0:03:49.080 know that we could have been smarter in slowing the impact, 0:03:49.160 --> 0:03:51.680 reducing the impact that we're now seeing play out in 0:03:51.760 --> 0:03:54.280 Texas and other areas, certainly there in the South and 0:03:54.320 --> 0:03:58.520 out in the West. I have survived a lot of 0:03:58.640 --> 0:04:02.680 capacitih exablems to involve with Katrina and and a lot 0:04:02.720 --> 0:04:06.000 of things. It's hard in real time speed to to 0:04:06.160 --> 0:04:09.240 really aim at and who their fault and where the 0:04:09.320 --> 0:04:12.600 place anger? Yes, I'm a little angry. So exactly where 0:04:12.600 --> 0:04:15.560 all the place of anger? I think is another issue. 0:04:16.440 --> 0:04:19.360 We would have loved have had stronger national leadership on 0:04:19.480 --> 0:04:22.280 this issue, and even on the statewide level. I think 0:04:22.320 --> 0:04:24.600 we could have opened up a lot slower than we did. 0:04:25.880 --> 0:04:29.039 But but I couldn't control that. And so in a 0:04:29.160 --> 0:04:33.080 situation where we can't control the outcomes of the political 0:04:33.200 --> 0:04:36.080 terrain that we're tracing right now. We have to leave 0:04:36.120 --> 0:04:38.880 the CEO of us and make the kinds of the 0:04:39.040 --> 0:04:43.320 seasons that are strong and wise for yourself, even as 0:04:43.320 --> 0:04:45.640 it relates to children going back to school, You your 0:04:45.640 --> 0:04:48.440 parents are gonna have to step in and make final 0:04:48.560 --> 0:04:52.120 decisions because right now there's so many mixed messages nobody 0:04:52.160 --> 0:04:56.440 knows exactly what to do. So Bishop Jake's I'm so 0:04:56.520 --> 0:04:58.960 glad we're getting to talk to you, and and it's overdue, 0:04:59.000 --> 0:05:01.440 in part because you were one of the first folks 0:05:01.520 --> 0:05:03.760 I thought of, you know, as we started to go 0:05:03.880 --> 0:05:07.159 through these last couple of months, and when we saw 0:05:07.200 --> 0:05:10.960 what happened in Minneapolis and and we saw what that 0:05:11.000 --> 0:05:14.960 triggered nationally, you were one of the voices that that 0:05:15.000 --> 0:05:18.400 I want to hear from around all this because I 0:05:18.440 --> 0:05:22.320 want to understand how you view what has happened since 0:05:22.360 --> 0:05:26.520 the killing of George Floyd, the reaction within your community 0:05:26.680 --> 0:05:30.520 and also the reaction in the broader community across America. 0:05:30.600 --> 0:05:32.960 You talked to so many people, you know, both in 0:05:33.040 --> 0:05:37.240 your congregation, but also national leaders, corporate leaders as well, 0:05:37.560 --> 0:05:39.800 and I wonder what you make of this time we're 0:05:39.800 --> 0:05:45.960 living in. Uh. It's like reliving a nightmare from the sixties, 0:05:46.040 --> 0:05:49.719 being my all the sixties that NFL this too, and 0:05:49.800 --> 0:05:52.480 so you know, it's it's the movie I don't want 0:05:52.520 --> 0:05:55.279 to see again. But it's happening in real town and speed. 0:05:55.680 --> 0:05:58.000 The good side of it is more and more people 0:05:58.200 --> 0:06:00.960 of that are not of color r king up this issue, 0:06:01.440 --> 0:06:05.479 and that's a very hardening, encouraging thing to see. UH. 0:06:05.560 --> 0:06:08.840 There has been some progress made, I call them cosmetic 0:06:08.920 --> 0:06:12.800 changes in terms of statues being removed. I'm not talking 0:06:12.839 --> 0:06:17.080 about violently so, but legally so. And I'm also hardened 0:06:17.080 --> 0:06:19.960 by the pag that there have been UH CEO that 0:06:20.360 --> 0:06:23.680 incorporations who have worked hard to correct some of the 0:06:23.960 --> 0:06:28.200 situations that existed, UH as it relates to the Confederate 0:06:28.240 --> 0:06:31.800 flag and and and and ge Baba served and things 0:06:31.800 --> 0:06:34.440 like that. But those are all cosmetic changes. Are nice, 0:06:34.720 --> 0:06:38.320 they're important, but they're cosmetic changes. The cancer that we 0:06:38.400 --> 0:06:42.000 still have still exist. UH. And I think that we 0:06:42.040 --> 0:06:45.599 have to work very hard, UH to to witholve some 0:06:45.680 --> 0:06:48.200 of the issues in the criminal justice system. We have 0:06:48.279 --> 0:06:50.760 to work very hard to get a national database set 0:06:50.839 --> 0:06:54.440 up for police officers who have had problem problems and 0:06:54.480 --> 0:06:57.159 other precincts, so that we don't make the mistake of 0:06:57.200 --> 0:07:00.440 the Catholic Church and moved them from precincted re see 0:07:00.720 --> 0:07:03.320 like they moved them from Paris to Paris. If we 0:07:03.440 --> 0:07:06.320 listen in history, we would learn quickly that we have 0:07:06.440 --> 0:07:09.960 to do things differently than what we've done before. Uh, 0:07:10.000 --> 0:07:12.400 and I think that there's a lot to be done 0:07:12.560 --> 0:07:15.600 in terms of the way the laws are as it 0:07:15.640 --> 0:07:19.200 relates to immunity right now for police officers, and how 0:07:19.240 --> 0:07:22.240 we correct that sort of thing that's a deeper cancer 0:07:22.400 --> 0:07:24.640 issue that needs to be corrected. We have to look 0:07:24.640 --> 0:07:28.720 at our communities as well, at job opportunities and training 0:07:28.760 --> 0:07:32.800 and retraining people to create opportunities. Well, that is something 0:07:32.920 --> 0:07:36.440 Jason and I've had a lot of conversations around Bishop 0:07:36.520 --> 0:07:41.160 Jake's about that ultimately, these inequalities they start really early 0:07:41.200 --> 0:07:44.520 on for individuals. It's a poverty issue, you know, and 0:07:44.560 --> 0:07:47.280 that we've got to figure out how to change that 0:07:47.360 --> 0:07:50.960 in our system so that everyone truly has the same 0:07:51.000 --> 0:07:54.480 access to opportunity. And that means you know, from the 0:07:54.520 --> 0:07:58.360 minute you're born, and so how do we how do 0:07:58.400 --> 0:08:01.360 we really change that? We keep talking en up better education. Well, 0:08:01.400 --> 0:08:03.440 we've spent a lot of money on education, yet here 0:08:03.480 --> 0:08:06.160 we are, so how do we really tackle that that 0:08:06.320 --> 0:08:09.360 problem that starts from in many cases, from the minute 0:08:09.400 --> 0:08:11.800 somebody is born, and it depends on where you're born, 0:08:11.840 --> 0:08:15.160 in the color of your skin. We we've spent a 0:08:15.200 --> 0:08:17.680 lot of money on education, and we've made some in 0:08:17.880 --> 0:08:20.280 rows in terms of education, but we've got people that 0:08:20.320 --> 0:08:23.600 are educated flipping Hamburgers right now. We've got to create 0:08:23.640 --> 0:08:27.600 opportunities and we've got to hold our corporations accountable to 0:08:28.120 --> 0:08:32.440 UH diversity and inclusion on every level, not just entry 0:08:32.559 --> 0:08:36.120 level positions. We need people in high ranking positions that 0:08:36.200 --> 0:08:38.920 are as diverse of our country is. We need that 0:08:39.000 --> 0:08:41.840 in our government. We need that everywhere so that when 0:08:41.840 --> 0:08:44.120 we sit down at the table to make decisions and 0:08:44.320 --> 0:08:47.240 the people who are making decisions look like the people 0:08:47.280 --> 0:08:49.400 who are going to have to live with those decisions. 0:08:49.480 --> 0:08:53.000 And that's just a wide way of leadership and government 0:08:53.000 --> 0:08:55.800 and going forward. I think we also have to look 0:08:55.800 --> 0:08:59.000 at how our studies are constructed, because they were not 0:08:59.040 --> 0:09:03.880 constructed in a way to provide commerce into UH. Certain 0:09:03.960 --> 0:09:07.080 areas and certain sectors are designed in such a way 0:09:07.120 --> 0:09:09.640 the highway is constructed in such a way that business 0:09:09.640 --> 0:09:13.280 does it creates down into those that it's been proven statistically, 0:09:13.520 --> 0:09:16.360 the low income housing group together does not work, and 0:09:16.480 --> 0:09:20.439 yet we continue down that path rather than mixed income housing. 0:09:20.720 --> 0:09:23.000 And I think some of it is an economic issues. 0:09:23.160 --> 0:09:25.559 Some of it is an education issue. But you can 0:09:25.600 --> 0:09:28.240 be educated and you can be wealthy, and you can 0:09:28.280 --> 0:09:32.720 still be shot down by uh police brutality. So it's 0:09:32.760 --> 0:09:37.240 not all education and it's not all economics. It's it's 0:09:37.280 --> 0:09:40.360 really a total reform of our system. And I think 0:09:40.400 --> 0:09:43.680 it's starting to happen. Uh, it just needs to continue 0:09:43.679 --> 0:09:46.840 to happen. And I'm worried that the conversation gets sade 0:09:46.920 --> 0:09:50.319 tracked by the vigilantes who take the message into their 0:09:50.320 --> 0:09:53.240 own hands and misrepresent the heart of what we're trying 0:09:53.240 --> 0:09:56.040 to do in our country. Well, and Bishop Jakes, I 0:09:56.120 --> 0:09:57.439 do want to take you back a little bit to 0:09:57.520 --> 0:10:00.680 some of those conversations you're having with corporate leaders, because 0:10:01.400 --> 0:10:06.600 the vast, vast majority of them are clearly white guys, 0:10:06.679 --> 0:10:08.760 and and that does seem to be, you know, part 0:10:08.760 --> 0:10:11.400 of the issue that that you and others, and we've 0:10:11.400 --> 0:10:14.520 had many people in the show talk about that, how 0:10:14.520 --> 0:10:17.920 do we sort of affect change, whether it's in the 0:10:18.040 --> 0:10:21.800 boardroom or at the top executive levels. Are you having 0:10:21.800 --> 0:10:25.320 those conversations, What advice are you giving companies to start 0:10:25.440 --> 0:10:29.520 to make that tangible change in leadership levels. They have 0:10:29.640 --> 0:10:33.000 to be intentional about it. I mean, slavery was intentional, 0:10:33.120 --> 0:10:36.920 Jim Crow was intentional. Inclusion has to be intentional. It 0:10:37.000 --> 0:10:40.640 has to be intentional, it has to be comprehensive, and uh, 0:10:40.800 --> 0:10:43.240 it's not just going to happen organically. We have to 0:10:43.280 --> 0:10:46.760 be intentional and go out and recruit and recognize that 0:10:46.800 --> 0:10:50.560 our companies do not reflect our country. And they have 0:10:50.679 --> 0:10:52.800 to be very, very intentional about that. And I think 0:10:52.880 --> 0:10:56.679 where they are having difficulties working together to find people, 0:10:56.679 --> 0:11:00.080 they have to work with other organizations, churches in a 0:11:00.080 --> 0:11:03.360 CP people who are on ground level zero, with black 0:11:03.360 --> 0:11:06.640 and brown people who do have degrees and qualifications and 0:11:06.679 --> 0:11:09.439 are finding it very difficult to climb the corporate ladder. 0:11:09.880 --> 0:11:12.840 Those things, I think have to happen. But beyond that, 0:11:12.880 --> 0:11:15.480 we have to have something for that blue collar workers 0:11:15.880 --> 0:11:18.960 from the industrial as technology, we lost a lot of 0:11:19.360 --> 0:11:23.240 middle middle income people in our communities and we have 0:11:23.320 --> 0:11:26.800 not rehabilitated that. Let them be fix we need roads, 0:11:26.920 --> 0:11:29.560 we need a new infrastructure in our city. There's so 0:11:29.600 --> 0:11:32.240 many and all over the country, there are so many 0:11:32.400 --> 0:11:34.520 blue collar jobs that need to be done that are 0:11:34.600 --> 0:11:37.680 underfunded that we're not getting taken care of, that we 0:11:37.840 --> 0:11:40.960 really could fix this problem without being intuitious. We have 0:11:41.160 --> 0:11:43.959 legitimate needs that need to be taken care of that 0:11:44.040 --> 0:11:47.720 would create upward mobility for all people who may not 0:11:47.840 --> 0:11:51.640 be degreed but need to be gainfully employed. So where 0:11:51.640 --> 0:11:55.920 would you start, Oh, gosh, I think everybody has to 0:11:55.960 --> 0:11:58.080 start where they are. I think it has to be 0:11:58.120 --> 0:12:02.080 a comprehensive effort. I slove my it is legislation. Some 0:12:02.240 --> 0:12:05.400 of it here is CEO sitting down and talking outside 0:12:05.400 --> 0:12:08.079 of their own circles. For a while, I have been saying, 0:12:08.080 --> 0:12:11.080 and that's why I started our foundation, so that we 0:12:11.120 --> 0:12:14.160 could have conversations and so that we could be a 0:12:14.320 --> 0:12:18.800 conduit to connect corporations with qualified people, whether their entry 0:12:18.880 --> 0:12:23.360 level people returning cittices, or whether they are upwards, upwardly 0:12:23.400 --> 0:12:27.959 mobile into higher aelons and organizations. We have access to 0:12:27.960 --> 0:12:30.199 all of those people out of the thirty million or 0:12:30.280 --> 0:12:32.959 so people that interact with us on a day to 0:12:33.040 --> 0:12:36.600 day basis. Between social media and television. We want to 0:12:36.600 --> 0:12:39.120 be a bridge to help those things to come to pass. 0:12:39.200 --> 0:12:42.240 That's why we just did our Steam program during the summer. 0:12:42.280 --> 0:12:45.160 We had five thousand young people to sign up for 0:12:45.240 --> 0:12:49.440 our Steam program and was wildly to successful. We're going 0:12:49.440 --> 0:12:53.400 to be partnered with Microsoft and Texas Instruments to get 0:12:53.440 --> 0:12:55.920 that done. We're going to go further with that program. 0:12:55.960 --> 0:13:00.000 We're adding a dynamic for UH Police with the Ballas 0:13:00.080 --> 0:13:03.760 Least Department to work with our Steam program. The Ballast 0:13:03.800 --> 0:13:06.319 Ethnony Orchestra is working with us. If this is a 0:13:06.480 --> 0:13:10.520 time for collaboration, where what I'm saying is we need 0:13:10.559 --> 0:13:14.720 to collaborate UH with the multi pronged appoch that includes 0:13:14.800 --> 0:13:18.359 faith leaders because faith leaders are the gateway to our community, 0:13:18.760 --> 0:13:21.880 but they also need to include CEOs, elected officials and 0:13:21.960 --> 0:13:24.840 community leaders. And I think if the four groups sit 0:13:24.920 --> 0:13:27.120 down at the table, we can lift it up to 0:13:27.200 --> 0:13:31.160 the level of plans lard. So, Bishop Jake's before we 0:13:31.280 --> 0:13:33.040 let you go on out about a minute left, what 0:13:33.120 --> 0:13:35.960 do we do as individuals just regular old people, you know, 0:13:36.080 --> 0:13:39.280 just trying to do the right thing and be better 0:13:39.320 --> 0:13:42.520 amid all this. I think we have to have the 0:13:42.559 --> 0:13:45.560 courage to talk to people who are different than us 0:13:45.760 --> 0:13:47.840 and who don't see the world the way we do. 0:13:47.920 --> 0:13:50.200 And I think that's something that everybody can do. I 0:13:50.240 --> 0:13:53.079 think we have to hold our elected officials accountable too, 0:13:53.559 --> 0:13:57.160 that they have an agenda that includes underserved communities and 0:13:57.240 --> 0:13:59.760 we have to make that a priority in this election. 0:13:59.800 --> 0:14:02.520 In anybody who doesn't have a strong agenda and a 0:14:02.679 --> 0:14:05.960 feasible plan in place that addresses this issue, we should 0:14:05.960 --> 0:14:09.240 not consider them an eligible candidate. There are other issues 0:14:09.320 --> 0:14:11.840 to the bits also has to be on the table 0:14:11.880 --> 0:14:15.040 as well. But what we can start doing is not 0:14:15.120 --> 0:14:17.920 allowing the news to tell us about each other, but 0:14:18.200 --> 0:14:21.320 actually have conversations with people from different walks of life 0:14:21.560 --> 0:14:24.800 and become involved on a one on one basis. Well, 0:14:24.840 --> 0:14:27.080 we really appreciate you spending some time with us, a 0:14:27.120 --> 0:14:29.880 real pleasure for us. Thank you so much. Bishop T. D. Jakes, 0:14:29.920 --> 0:14:32.640 Chairman of the T. D. Jake's Foundation. Johnius on the 0:14:32.640 --> 0:14:35.200 phone from Dallas always learned something from him.