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Speaker 1: Hey guys, Steve here, you are listening to one of

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Speaker 1: our original twenty six episodes. If you listen to any

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Speaker 1: of our new episodes, you're gonna notice that we're sounding

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Speaker 1: a little different in these ones. Yeah, there's a reason

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Speaker 1: for that. There is they've been remastered. They have been

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Speaker 1: remastered because they had a really annoying hum. Yeah, I

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Speaker 1: mean a huge thanks to listener James for doing almost

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Speaker 1: all of the legwork on this thing. They'll also notice

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Speaker 1: if you had listened to what we're calling the last

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Speaker 1: twenty six episodes before and you're re listening now, the

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Speaker 1: music and sound effects are gone. Yes, we've we've gone

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Speaker 1: back to straight audio, So be warned. We sound a

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Speaker 1: little different today than we do in what you're about

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Speaker 1: to listen to. Yeah, bye bye, Thinking Sideways. I don't

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Speaker 1: understand you never know what stories of things. We simply

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Speaker 1: don't know the answer too. Well. Hold there, Welcome to

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Speaker 1: another episode of Thinking Sideways. We are the podcast that

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Speaker 1: tackles the unsolved mysteries that baffled people through the ages,

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Speaker 1: and we solved them. My name is, my name is Joe,

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Speaker 1: on my left is Steve, and on my right is

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Speaker 1: and so we're gonna delve into another really cool unsolved mystery.

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Speaker 1: This is the Angel Couni Lake mystery. It's a disappearance

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Speaker 1: of an entire tribe of Escobos. And this story has

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Speaker 1: got everything. It's got mysterious blue blinking lights in the sky,

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Speaker 1: church desecration, Canadian mounted police, grave robbery, and across dressing

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Speaker 1: dog And did I leave anything out? Yeah? Yeah it is,

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Speaker 1: It really is, Okay, So let's get started here. Our

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Speaker 1: story starts in November of nineteen thirty. A fur trapper

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Speaker 1: named Joe Label is in the Northwest Territories of Canada.

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Speaker 1: This is like the area north of Manitoba since been

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Speaker 1: partitioned off, and they've created a new problem. It's called

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Speaker 1: I forget what it's called. It's like Neiva two or

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Speaker 1: something like that. But they created a new province of

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Speaker 1: province for the Innuit Indians that are in Northwest territories. Yeah. So,

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Speaker 1: Lake on Jokani is located about two miles west of

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Speaker 1: Hudson Bay and well north of Manitobah. So anyway, he

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Speaker 1: was trudging along looking for this village where apparently he

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Speaker 1: was familiar with the inhabitants and he'd been by there

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Speaker 1: many times. And had friends there, and he was hoping

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Speaker 1: to spend the night there and maybe get a hot meal.

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Speaker 1: He comes to it in the evening apparently, like I

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Speaker 1: don't know what, like early evening too, and it was

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Speaker 1: not quite dark yet, apparently like around twilight. Yeah, maybe twilight,

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Speaker 1: that's a good word. The village, as the story goes,

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Speaker 1: was huts and some tents, and when he was when

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Speaker 1: he approached it, he noticed that it was unnaturally quiet,

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Speaker 1: and normally you would expect to hear the sounds of

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Speaker 1: people and then the dogs barking in such things, and

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Speaker 1: there were no noises coming from the village, which purpose

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Speaker 1: interest piqued his interest just a little bit. Also, he

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Speaker 1: noted that none of the chimneys had smoke coming out

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Speaker 1: of them, which is unusual. This is late November and

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Speaker 1: so and this is of course, of court kind of

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Speaker 1: towards the Arctic circles, so it's going to be really

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Speaker 1: really cool out. So he did notice a fire some

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Speaker 1: distance away from the village, and so he walked to

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Speaker 1: the fire and when he got there and the fire

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Speaker 1: was embers, but there was nobody there. So he walked

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Speaker 1: back to the village and he started looking in the huts,

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Speaker 1: and what he found is that they all looked like

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Speaker 1: people have been living in them recently. They all were

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Speaker 1: stocked with food and had clothing and other possessions laying around.

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Speaker 1: The rifles all the all the villagers rifles were leading

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Speaker 1: in the usual spot against the wall near the doorway,

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Speaker 1: and but there was nobody there. In any of these huts.

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Speaker 1: He found a pot of stew caribou in one, which

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Speaker 1: was moldy, apparently had been sitting there for a while.

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Speaker 1: He found a half and half mended sealskin coat in

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Speaker 1: another that had still had the needle in it. But

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Speaker 1: there were there was nobody there, and there was no

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Speaker 1: size of violence. Nothing was torn up or anything, but

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Speaker 1: the people were all gone. So his next step was

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Speaker 1: to circle the upside of the village. He was looking

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Speaker 1: for any footprints that would tell him what direction they

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Speaker 1: had gone, and if they had all suddenly made a

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Speaker 1: mass exodus, he was wondering what direction they had gone.

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Speaker 1: He circled the entire perimeter of the village, found nothing,

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Speaker 1: so at this point he was getting kind of creeped out,

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Speaker 1: so he decided to head off too. Apparently there was

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Speaker 1: a telegraph office about twenty five miles away, So he

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Speaker 1: decided to head to this telegraph office and get a

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Speaker 1: message off to the Mounties and get them in there

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Speaker 1: to investigate this mysterious disappearance. Uh and some telling they

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Speaker 1: arrived there several hours later, and some tellings they arrived

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Speaker 1: like the next day. All that sounds a little fantastic

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Speaker 1: to me because this place was hundreds of miles away

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Speaker 1: from anywhere and so but eventually, but eventually, the Mounties arrived.

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Speaker 1: So they meet up with Mr. LaBelle, and then they

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Speaker 1: started heading back to Anticony, and on their way they

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Speaker 1: encounter a trapper named armand Laurent and his two sons

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Speaker 1: who lived in a shanty somewhere in the way of obviously,

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Speaker 1: and they asked them if they had seen anything out

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Speaker 1: of the ordinary. They said that they had seen a

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Speaker 1: gleaming object in the sky a few days before. Laurent

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Speaker 1: said that the object changed its shape and that it

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Speaker 1: was flying in the general direction of Lake Anjocuney. So

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Speaker 1: the Mountains continued to Anjocuny and found it was still empty.

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Speaker 1: They were searching the village and they discovered that the

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Speaker 1: village burial ground had been plundered. All of the graves

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Speaker 1: have been opened and the bodies have been removed um

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Speaker 1: and other accounts only one grave had been opened with

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Speaker 1: the body removed, and some accounts say the marker stones

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Speaker 1: for the graves were stacked into two neat piles on

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Speaker 1: either sides of the graves. They also discovered some sled

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Speaker 1: dogs about three feet from the village. Some accounts say

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Speaker 1: two to three sled dogs and sub stay seven. But

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Speaker 1: they apparently had starved at death, and in one account

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Speaker 1: they were they were tied to some scrubby trees. And

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Speaker 1: I don't know how much how much they having away

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Speaker 1: of scrubby trees up there, because again this is kind

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Speaker 1: of like in the Arctic, and it's up of the

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Speaker 1: tree line, so there might not have been a tree

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Speaker 1: around for miles. And lastly, they reported seeing bluish lights

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Speaker 1: on the horizon in the twilight. There were, and of

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Speaker 1: course obviously these people were used to living in the

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Speaker 1: frozen waste lands of the North, and then you know,

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Speaker 1: they know what the Aurora borealis looks like, So wasn't

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Speaker 1: that Yeah, so it wasn't the Aurora borealis. It was

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Speaker 1: blue blinking lights which eventually disappeared. They found some berries

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Speaker 1: in a cooking pot, and based on the growing season

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Speaker 1: for these berries, et cetera, in the state of deterioration

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Speaker 1: of the berries, they concluded that the Innuits have been

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Speaker 1: gone for two months or longer. So we've got a

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Speaker 1: completely deserted village. Deserted village. We don't know, we don't know,

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Speaker 1: we don't know what happened to these people. Yeah, but

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Speaker 1: they didn't just show up, you know, twenty miles away

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Speaker 1: or anything like that. You just disappeared. They just disappeared.

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Speaker 1: This isn't like that the Roanoke Island story right where

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Speaker 1: it's like, oh, all of these people disappeared, but all

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Speaker 1: of a sudden there's blonde haired, blue eyed Indian. How

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Speaker 1: weird like that, We're saying they've just disappeared on They

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Speaker 1: just they apparently just disappeared. Nobody moving forward. This is uh,

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Speaker 1: we've talked about these sorts of things before. This is

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Speaker 1: a tale that's kind of grown in the telling. Ye.

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Speaker 1: So yeah, it's all it's been around since nineteen thirty

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Speaker 1: when the original story was published. I remember this one

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Speaker 1: has inflated. Oh, it's mass massively inflated. Massively inflated. For example,

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Speaker 1: the part about the Mounties running into that trapper named

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Speaker 1: armand lorent And who purported seeing a Ufo headed towards

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Speaker 1: Lake Antikuti. Apparently that that that part of the story

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Speaker 1: appeared in three somebody wrote a book called The World's

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Speaker 1: Great Ufo Mysteries, and they just sort of tacked on

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Speaker 1: that part of the story the well, not the blue

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Speaker 1: Lights part, but the part about running into this trapper

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Speaker 1: named armand lorent And and damn him saying that he'd

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Speaker 1: seen a Ufo okay into the trap. No, apparently not

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Speaker 1: before three. So so yeah, so they so the other things,

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Speaker 1: the other embellishments have been put in, and and just

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Speaker 1: for for the sake of our listeners, I'm going to

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Speaker 1: go back to the original story, but first I want

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Speaker 1: to go through some of the later stories because they're

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Speaker 1: kind of fun. In another version of the story, there

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Speaker 1: were two thousand people in the village who managed that's

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Speaker 1: that's a big village. Yeah, that's a pretty big city. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: In in this in this retelling, the village had a

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Speaker 1: population of oh this is you got another one had

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Speaker 1: a population of up to It had a Catholic church,

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Speaker 1: a local watering Holy I e. Bar and it had

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Speaker 1: docks with kayaks tied up to them. As in the

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Speaker 1: other versions, most of the has had possessions, including rifles

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Speaker 1: left behind in them. Yeah. The rifles are the interesting part,

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Speaker 1: right because I can kind of explain it away to

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Speaker 1: go to into theories. Yeah, but you can kind of

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Speaker 1: explain stories like this way, like, oh, they just left,

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Speaker 1: and they all left for like some mysterious reason. But

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Speaker 1: if you're going to wander into the Arctic, you wander

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Speaker 1: with your rifles, right, They're kind of are critters out there. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: so that's yeah, I'm glad to see that at least

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Speaker 1: that persists. Yeah. Yeah. So so there's all these rifles

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Speaker 1: left behind, which is inexplicable they left their kayaks behind.

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Speaker 1: So uh So, anyway, our our friend the trapper joe

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Speaker 1: Leabelle went to this watering hole. He came to the

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Speaker 1: village it found it mysteriously empty. So he went to

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Speaker 1: the local watering hole, which was on the outskirts of

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Speaker 1: the village. It's kind of a cafe, or it was

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Speaker 1: kind of a cafe bar and it was called the

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Speaker 1: mac Shack. So this is in the over Zealous This

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Speaker 1: is in later retelling of the story. Yeah, so he

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Speaker 1: goes to the mac Shack, which is named for its owner,

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Speaker 1: fran mackenzie. He found it empty, but mackenzie McKenzie had

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Speaker 1: been had been crippled in while serving in the military,

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Speaker 1: so he used to crutch that He found the place empty,

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Speaker 1: but mc mackenzie's crutch was in pieces on the floor,

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Speaker 1: which he found kind of disconcerting. And then he looks

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Speaker 1: to a window and he notices a bonfire about four

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Speaker 1: yards away, so he heads that way. But when he

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Speaker 1: gets there, there's no one there. There's a stew apparently

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Speaker 1: of seal, a seal stew, seal meat cooking in a pot,

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Speaker 1: and so a few but a few artifacts and possessions

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Speaker 1: were laying about, but there were no people. Um, he

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Speaker 1: left at that time because he was sloroughly creeped out,

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Speaker 1: and went to it to that I went to that

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Speaker 1: same telegraph office twenty five miles away. The Royal Canadian

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Speaker 1: Mounted Police arrived. Some say the next day, and uh,

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Speaker 1: some people say longer. I'm guessing longer really in real life,

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Speaker 1: really in real life, but of course this isn't really

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Speaker 1: real life. So people, yeah, yeah, I think the I

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Speaker 1: think the population of the entire province is about today,

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Speaker 1: about fifteen or twenty thousand people and that thirty I'm

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Speaker 1: sure it was a lot less. Yeah, it's a pretty

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Speaker 1: empty place in this fantasy full version. Well, so anyway,

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Speaker 1: the mystery deepens. When they got there, they found Mackenzie's

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Speaker 1: diary in his bedroom. So in the entry previous to

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Speaker 1: the day that LaBelle arrived, he wrote that strange blue

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Speaker 1: lights had been appearing in the night sky for several

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Speaker 1: days before. So that's true. Then, of course that means

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Speaker 1: he was there just the day before LaBelle arrived in

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Speaker 1: the village. So yeah, a real sudden exodus of these people. Here.

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Speaker 1: Here's a really another really creepy part nearby. Outside, they

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Speaker 1: found Mackenzie's dog, which was a husky, a female husky.

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Speaker 1: The dog was dead. Somebody addressed the dog in women's clothing,

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Speaker 1: including underwear. Some we're actually taking the trouble to put

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Speaker 1: women's underwear on this dog, draped the dress over it

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Speaker 1: and put lipstick on its lips, pierced it's ears, although

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Speaker 1: they didn't apparently get around to putting ear rings, and

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Speaker 1: and forced a wedding ring onto her left paw. Apparently

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Speaker 1: did some damage to the paw while forcing this wedding

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Speaker 1: ring on you are you are pulling my leg. I

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Speaker 1: am not pulling a leg. This is actually out there.

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Speaker 1: This is actually no, that's not like the cheap of Cobra.

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Speaker 1: I'm not making this not just just a messenger here,

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Speaker 1: I'm just passing it along. Okay. So, as I said

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Speaker 1: before this, the village had a Catholic church. Um it

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Speaker 1: was trashed and smashed up and had been heavily graffiti.

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Speaker 1: The graffiti referenced Unitarian Universalist church symbols, which I think

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Speaker 1: is kind of bizarre. We've been grown up in the

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Speaker 1: Unitarian Church, yeah, I tell you, yeah, what y facing

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Speaker 1: other churches is not something that typically happened, especially especially

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Speaker 1: the Unitarians. The Unitarians are all about all about the

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Speaker 1: fact that they don't really believe in anything, and so

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Speaker 1: that's a that's a that's a big centerpiece of the

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Speaker 1: Unitarians believe. They come together in the belief that there

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Speaker 1: might be something, but there might not. But it's good

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Speaker 1: for adults to come together and talk about how to

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Speaker 1: live a good life even if there is a God,

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Speaker 1: but maybe there isn't. But I do think that's one

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Speaker 1: of the intriguing things about this particular part of the

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Speaker 1: story though, is that, you know, yeah, they don't seem

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Speaker 1: to have very much hate for the Catholic Church. I mean,

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Speaker 1: there are definitely some religions you could be like, Okay,

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Speaker 1: I guess I could see there's like a feud there

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Speaker 1: or something. Yeah, yeah, I mean but that typically maybe

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Speaker 1: this is maybe this is not made up at all,

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Speaker 1: because typically if he makes up up, it's Satanic symbols, right, yeah,

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Speaker 1: that would be what you would expect. Yeah, I don't know. So, yeah,

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Speaker 1: maybe the person that that actually made this up, and

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Speaker 1: I'm not saying it's made up, of course, but maybe

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Speaker 1: the person who made this up didn't understand what the

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Speaker 1: Unitarian Church is all about, and they thought they were

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Speaker 1: Satanic or something like that. I don't know. Yeah. Anyway,

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Speaker 1: So at the Catholic church, which of course, as we said,

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Speaker 1: was trashed and covered with the Kramiti, there was also

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Speaker 1: a graveyard. Graves had all been opened and the bodies

254
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Speaker 1: have been removed except for one. This was the grave

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Speaker 1: of a guy named Punkylos Yeah, yeah, something like that.

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Speaker 1: He was He was a tribal leader who had founded

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Speaker 1: the village years back, and his grave was undisturbed, but

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Speaker 1: the Mountie's found that the grave was warm to the

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Speaker 1: touch and no snow on it because the stone melted

260
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Speaker 1: off the grave was warm. The other graves have had

261
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Speaker 1: trash thrown in them. Okay, So anyway, that that is

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Speaker 1: our telling. Those of the story so far, apparently it's

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Speaker 1: been embellished a little bit over the years. Don't like it.

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Speaker 1: It's so far the accounts sound like they vary a lot.

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Speaker 1: So the facts are very soft on this at this point. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: you know. In fact, the you know, I don't know

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Speaker 1: if you guys know this, you probably did, But the

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Speaker 1: Royal Canadian menta Police um as you know, has a

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Speaker 1: website and they've actually got a little page devoted just

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Speaker 1: to this little mystery, basically denying that they had no

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Speaker 1: involvement in it. There's no record whatsoever of any Mountie's

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Speaker 1: ever heading out to this place or ever finding any

273
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Speaker 1: any disappeared eskimos. They say the whole thing is an

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Speaker 1: urban legend. And they say, by the way that given

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Speaker 1: the topography and the weather of the place, they doubt

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Speaker 1: that Lake Anchocuni could in this area could have sustained

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Speaker 1: a community of even people. So that's what the mantis

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Speaker 1: say yeah, the mountis Yeah, the Mattieves denied it very strongly.

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Speaker 1: It stinks of a cover up, doesn't it. Well, I

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Speaker 1: was just gonna say, actually that like this, this is

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Speaker 1: just like exactly the kind of story that like, there's

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Speaker 1: no reason for them to deny any kind of involvement, right,

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Speaker 1: I mean, it's not like there's like some renegade submarine

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Speaker 1: like or maybe there is, I don't know. It doesn't

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Speaker 1: stink of something that you want to cover up. Like

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Speaker 1: a lot of stories we talk about, you can say, Okay,

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Speaker 1: it would make sense that this government is faking knowledge

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Speaker 1: of it, are saying they don't have knowledge of it,

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Speaker 1: because that would be something you'd want to cover up.

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Speaker 1: This doesn't. Yeah, one of the things like like, for example,

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Speaker 1: in this telling of the story where he goes out

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Speaker 1: to the bonfire and there's a stew of seal meat

293
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Speaker 1: in a pot. Well, I'm sorry, everybody thinks of any

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Speaker 1: eats is as eating seals all the time. But the

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Speaker 1: fact of the matter is it's only the ones that

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Speaker 1: live by the ocean get to eat the seals. These

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Speaker 1: guys seals are Yeah, the nearest source of seals for

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Speaker 1: these people was two hundred miles away and Hudson Bay,

299
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Speaker 1: and so it's not too likely they would track two

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Speaker 1: hundred miles to kill a seal and make some some

301
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Speaker 1: stew up. That's that's that's a long way to go

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Speaker 1: for takeout. Yeah, it really is. So where did this

303
00:16:09,680 --> 00:16:12,640
Speaker 1: story originate? I mean, obviously it's been embellished. There are

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Speaker 1: places like the UFO History thing that have talked about it.

305
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Speaker 1: But so so where did it originated? Well, that's a

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00:16:20,040 --> 00:16:23,920
Speaker 1: good question. So the earliest mention of this story was

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Speaker 1: from a reporter named Emmett E. Kelleher. His story was

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00:16:29,280 --> 00:16:32,120
Speaker 1: picked up by a newspaper. This is the only this

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Speaker 1: is the only one that we can find. Supposedly, the

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Speaker 1: story actually circulated all over Canada. In the US, Emmett

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Speaker 1: Callaher worked for a organization called the NIA, which was

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Speaker 1: what stood for the Newspaper Enterprise Association. So the NIA

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Speaker 1: was a news distribution network. It was kind of like

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Speaker 1: the APS today, has strangers all over the place. I've

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Speaker 1: actually done a little research on on Kellagher and I

316
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Speaker 1: can't I don't know if he actually worked for any

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Speaker 1: actual newspaper, if he was just a stringer for the NA.

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Speaker 1: So it's it's hard to say. There's very sketchy information

319
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Speaker 1: on this guy, but we'll talk about him in a

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Speaker 1: little bit. So he published a story soon the na

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Speaker 1: which was picked up by apparently supposedly a lot of newspapers,

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Speaker 1: but the only, the only actual archived version anybody can find,

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Speaker 1: appeared in a Virginia newspaper town of Danville. The paper

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Speaker 1: is called the Danville b and this story was published

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Speaker 1: in November, November seven. That would be a real quick

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Speaker 1: turn around, Yeah, exactly. Yeah, And if you read the story,

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Speaker 1: I'll get him that in a moment or two. Obviously

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Speaker 1: this happened, not, this incident did not happen in November

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Speaker 1: nineteen thirty. That's you know, there's a little confusion there.

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Speaker 1: That happened long before that months at least. So in

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Speaker 1: this version, which I have a copy of, um, he

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Speaker 1: arrived by kayak over the lake instead of walking as

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Speaker 1: in the other stories. There were no docks to tie

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Speaker 1: up to. He just pulled his kayak up on the beach.

335
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Speaker 1: He got there, not in the We're probably about mid

336
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Speaker 1: day or early afternoon. The village had no huts. It

337
00:18:04,119 --> 00:18:07,600
Speaker 1: was six tents made of carib hides. And when he

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00:18:07,640 --> 00:18:09,840
Speaker 1: walked towards the village. He was calling out to them

339
00:18:09,840 --> 00:18:13,000
Speaker 1: because he didn't want to arouse suspicion. Nobody replied, but

340
00:18:13,080 --> 00:18:16,679
Speaker 1: two dogs came out to very almost nearly dead from starvation.

341
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Speaker 1: Dogs came out of the village, and he noticed there

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Speaker 1: were seven other dogs lying nearby who were start to death.

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Speaker 1: Um so he went to the village and the village

344
00:18:28,040 --> 00:18:30,880
Speaker 1: was deserted, and he was at this point a little

345
00:18:30,880 --> 00:18:33,280
Speaker 1: creeped out, and he wants to look at one of

346
00:18:33,320 --> 00:18:34,919
Speaker 1: the tents, and he was afraid he might find a

347
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Speaker 1: corpse in there, but luckily there wasn't one. But he

348
00:18:38,000 --> 00:18:40,879
Speaker 1: looks in there and he pokes around. He sees possessions

349
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Speaker 1: in the tent. There's a parking laying on the on

350
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Speaker 1: the ground, and he picks the tarp up, the park up,

351
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Speaker 1: and he finds a rifle underneath it, and the rifle

352
00:18:48,880 --> 00:18:52,080
Speaker 1: had been rusted from laying there for a while. He

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00:18:52,160 --> 00:18:54,760
Speaker 1: went to the other tents, and in another tent he

354
00:18:54,760 --> 00:18:57,159
Speaker 1: found some fox hides. When he moved those aside, there

355
00:18:57,240 --> 00:19:00,159
Speaker 1: was another rifle, also rusty, and those were the only

356
00:19:00,200 --> 00:19:02,639
Speaker 1: two rifles he found. He had. His guest was that

357
00:19:02,760 --> 00:19:05,800
Speaker 1: there had been more or less twenty five people living there,

358
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Speaker 1: and he estimated that they had been gone for perhaps

359
00:19:09,560 --> 00:19:12,240
Speaker 1: as long as twelve months based on the amount of

360
00:19:12,320 --> 00:19:16,400
Speaker 1: rifle rifle rust. In this story, he didn't know people

361
00:19:16,400 --> 00:19:19,480
Speaker 1: of the village, Yeah, exactly, there's no in this account,

362
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Speaker 1: he had had no relationship with these people. He just

363
00:19:21,600 --> 00:19:23,760
Speaker 1: was paddled along, saw a village, went up to it

364
00:19:24,119 --> 00:19:26,840
Speaker 1: and it found it deserted, and found a couple of

365
00:19:26,920 --> 00:19:29,120
Speaker 1: rusty rifles in there, along with some other odds and ends.

366
00:19:30,400 --> 00:19:33,439
Speaker 1: So he walked down to the lake and discovered what

367
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Speaker 1: he believed was an Eskimo grave. The grave was a karen.

368
00:19:36,960 --> 00:19:38,440
Speaker 1: You know what a karen is, just like a pile

369
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Speaker 1: of stones based on Yeah, and so it had been

370
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Speaker 1: if it had been a grave, and he apparently believed

371
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Speaker 1: that it was a grave, that it had been exsumed.

372
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Speaker 1: Somebody pulled the stones and stacked him on the side

373
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Speaker 1: and on one side, and then the body was gone.

374
00:19:51,920 --> 00:19:55,440
Speaker 1: So he thought that that was kind of puzzling and inexplicable. Yeah,

375
00:19:55,440 --> 00:19:59,480
Speaker 1: that's a little weird. And so in his account, he

376
00:20:00,080 --> 00:20:02,560
Speaker 1: around for a while. He fished, caught some fish and

377
00:20:02,560 --> 00:20:05,639
Speaker 1: gave them to the dogs who obviously needed them, and

378
00:20:05,680 --> 00:20:08,119
Speaker 1: then after that he left because he didn't want to

379
00:20:08,119 --> 00:20:10,400
Speaker 1: be there after dark, because obviously he was a little

380
00:20:10,400 --> 00:20:12,879
Speaker 1: creeped out by the whole thing. But he went on

381
00:20:13,000 --> 00:20:15,240
Speaker 1: his way. He didn't he did not go to a

382
00:20:15,280 --> 00:20:17,960
Speaker 1: telegraph office. And at this point, let me stay there.

383
00:20:18,000 --> 00:20:21,200
Speaker 1: There was no telegraph office within miles of this place.

384
00:20:21,720 --> 00:20:24,120
Speaker 1: I was, I was checking out a map of the area.

385
00:20:24,160 --> 00:20:26,520
Speaker 1: And even today, there were no settlements within a hundred

386
00:20:26,560 --> 00:20:29,000
Speaker 1: two hundred miles of this place. I mean, so there

387
00:20:29,040 --> 00:20:32,600
Speaker 1: wouldn't have been a yah, it's really remote. So there

388
00:20:32,640 --> 00:20:35,000
Speaker 1: would not have been a telegraph office within twenty five

389
00:20:35,040 --> 00:20:37,160
Speaker 1: miles of this place. So he didn't high he didn't

390
00:20:37,200 --> 00:20:39,880
Speaker 1: high tail it to a telegraph office. He just went

391
00:20:39,880 --> 00:20:42,560
Speaker 1: on about his business of being a trapper. According to

392
00:20:42,760 --> 00:20:47,560
Speaker 1: the news article, during the season, quote unquote, he visited

393
00:20:47,760 --> 00:20:50,720
Speaker 1: at least a dozen enemy camps, and in those he

394
00:20:50,800 --> 00:20:53,080
Speaker 1: inquired about the village of the Dams and so I'd

395
00:20:53,080 --> 00:20:56,359
Speaker 1: like to call it. And he told them the story,

396
00:20:56,480 --> 00:20:59,160
Speaker 1: and they were all they all claimed to know nothing

397
00:20:59,200 --> 00:21:04,080
Speaker 1: about it. They assumed that it was Corno Suk. And

398
00:21:04,119 --> 00:21:07,240
Speaker 1: I'm not pronouncing that correctly, I'm sure, but Durnarsuk is

399
00:21:07,280 --> 00:21:10,600
Speaker 1: a is an Eskimo legend. He's an evil sky spirit

400
00:21:10,840 --> 00:21:13,080
Speaker 1: and he actually is a commander of a legion of

401
00:21:13,119 --> 00:21:16,399
Speaker 1: evil spirits, and he's they're very terrified of him, and

402
00:21:16,440 --> 00:21:19,000
Speaker 1: they all wear charms to ward him off, et cetera.

403
00:21:19,119 --> 00:21:21,320
Speaker 1: And so when stuff like this happens, they just assumed

404
00:21:21,320 --> 00:21:25,000
Speaker 1: that it was him. So the article. The article refers

405
00:21:25,119 --> 00:21:28,320
Speaker 1: to an investigation by the Mounties, but it's a little vague,

406
00:21:28,320 --> 00:21:30,760
Speaker 1: and it says that they're puzzled. Here's what it says.

407
00:21:30,840 --> 00:21:33,760
Speaker 1: Officers of the Northwest Mounted Police trying to trace the

408
00:21:33,800 --> 00:21:36,760
Speaker 1: lost tribe are equally puzzled. They say the tribe may

409
00:21:36,760 --> 00:21:39,359
Speaker 1: have perished in as a blizard while off on a

410
00:21:39,359 --> 00:21:42,800
Speaker 1: caribou hunt, although admitting that it is unlikely that all

411
00:21:42,800 --> 00:21:45,639
Speaker 1: the women and children would have gone along pastile ch

412
00:21:45,640 --> 00:21:48,320
Speaker 1: occasionally strikes Eskimo camps, but in that case there would

413
00:21:48,320 --> 00:21:51,720
Speaker 1: have been bodies one and that mentions another another couple

414
00:21:51,720 --> 00:21:54,480
Speaker 1: of interesting clues. Tribe Willing, about a hundred and fifty

415
00:21:54,480 --> 00:21:57,640
Speaker 1: miles to the north of the abandoned camp, has an

416
00:21:57,640 --> 00:22:00,359
Speaker 1: adopted ten year old Eskimo boy who appears to wandered

417
00:22:00,359 --> 00:22:03,000
Speaker 1: into the camp a few months ago and does not

418
00:22:03,080 --> 00:22:06,040
Speaker 1: belong to any of the nearby tribes. So this isn't

419
00:22:06,280 --> 00:22:09,800
Speaker 1: again the news story by the original accounting the original

420
00:22:09,800 --> 00:22:12,040
Speaker 1: account in nineteen thirty other boy in the tribe are

421
00:22:12,080 --> 00:22:14,600
Speaker 1: resisent about things, and nobody has learned anything but from

422
00:22:14,680 --> 00:22:17,919
Speaker 1: them so far. And the other the other interesting clue

423
00:22:18,080 --> 00:22:20,200
Speaker 1: is and this is like a non clue, but it's

424
00:22:20,200 --> 00:22:23,760
Speaker 1: in the article and asking my names. Uh so mac

425
00:22:23,840 --> 00:22:25,960
Speaker 1: I think his house pronounced walked into a hospital on

426
00:22:26,000 --> 00:22:28,679
Speaker 1: the Hudson Bay Railway for treatment for frozen legs. That

427
00:22:28,800 --> 00:22:31,600
Speaker 1: was thought that he might know something about the situation.

428
00:22:31,760 --> 00:22:36,560
Speaker 1: So they found an Eskimo who could speak dialect and

429
00:22:36,720 --> 00:22:39,639
Speaker 1: who began to question him. Salimc refused to talk about it,

430
00:22:40,240 --> 00:22:43,760
Speaker 1: and mentioning torn Ark. He does it, he calls the

431
00:22:43,760 --> 00:22:48,280
Speaker 1: evil spirit, not torna Suk or torn Suk, but torn Ark.

432
00:22:48,359 --> 00:22:51,200
Speaker 1: And this one acally mentioned torn Ark and refused to

433
00:22:51,200 --> 00:22:53,520
Speaker 1: answer any questions they got. They got a bottle of

434
00:22:53,520 --> 00:22:55,679
Speaker 1: whiskey and tried to get him drunk, but he refused it.

435
00:22:55,760 --> 00:23:01,119
Speaker 1: And that's what the articles for. Yeah, I had I

436
00:23:01,200 --> 00:23:03,000
Speaker 1: tried to get him drunk and he wouldn't And so

437
00:23:03,080 --> 00:23:05,480
Speaker 1: that's it. Those are dead ends And obviously both of those.

438
00:23:05,520 --> 00:23:08,560
Speaker 1: I mean something some you know, some random innuit shows

439
00:23:08,600 --> 00:23:09,920
Speaker 1: up and you're thinking, I have been he knows something

440
00:23:09,960 --> 00:23:14,080
Speaker 1: about them disappeared people. So it's like it's like I

441
00:23:14,119 --> 00:23:18,080
Speaker 1: don't really know about this. That's about it for that article, again,

442
00:23:18,119 --> 00:23:21,520
Speaker 1: written by Emity Kelleher, a stringer for the NIA, It

443
00:23:21,520 --> 00:23:24,840
Speaker 1: appeared in a number of newspapers and it pretty much

444
00:23:24,920 --> 00:23:28,720
Speaker 1: died out now. Subsequently, other other websites have sided and

445
00:23:28,760 --> 00:23:30,680
Speaker 1: I found a few of these. They cited an article

446
00:23:30,720 --> 00:23:34,119
Speaker 1: in the Toronto Star of all places, which appeared on

447
00:23:34,200 --> 00:23:37,840
Speaker 1: November twenty three, nineteen thirty. According to this according to

448
00:23:37,840 --> 00:23:40,600
Speaker 1: this article, the Canadian Mounted Police went out to the

449
00:23:40,680 --> 00:23:43,760
Speaker 1: lake and came back on the day of the tent

450
00:23:45,320 --> 00:23:48,840
Speaker 1: and basically said they had no idea what had happened.

451
00:23:48,880 --> 00:23:51,920
Speaker 1: So let me quote from it here. The inspector for

452
00:23:51,920 --> 00:23:54,040
Speaker 1: the Royal Canadian Menta Police returned to day to confirm

453
00:23:54,119 --> 00:23:56,919
Speaker 1: the disappearance of an escopole village in the Northern Lakes region.

454
00:23:57,320 --> 00:23:59,639
Speaker 1: So he returned with the team's funding today confirmed the

455
00:23:59,680 --> 00:24:02,720
Speaker 1: store the village hat was indeed abandoned in the most

456
00:24:02,760 --> 00:24:07,240
Speaker 1: strange circumstances. And so this appeared prior four days prior

457
00:24:07,359 --> 00:24:10,880
Speaker 1: to tell of her story UH in the Toronto Star.

458
00:24:11,640 --> 00:24:14,720
Speaker 1: So I don't know, my I think somebody could very

459
00:24:14,720 --> 00:24:17,880
Speaker 1: easily have just written this out and posted on the website,

460
00:24:17,880 --> 00:24:20,080
Speaker 1: and it's pure bunk. I have no idea. I went

461
00:24:20,119 --> 00:24:23,520
Speaker 1: out to the Toronto Stars website and they actually have

462
00:24:24,480 --> 00:24:27,560
Speaker 1: uh an online archive, and I was hoping to be

463
00:24:27,560 --> 00:24:29,240
Speaker 1: able to get in there and look for this article,

464
00:24:29,280 --> 00:24:33,840
Speaker 1: but unfortunately requires a subscription, and I checked her expense account.

465
00:24:34,080 --> 00:24:37,359
Speaker 1: Unfortunately it's not there. As it turns out, there's nothing

466
00:24:37,400 --> 00:24:39,600
Speaker 1: in there, and I have to keep the pap for myself.

467
00:24:39,800 --> 00:24:41,399
Speaker 1: I would like to say that if any of our

468
00:24:41,440 --> 00:24:43,560
Speaker 1: listeners actually want to pay to go out to their

469
00:24:44,480 --> 00:24:46,639
Speaker 1: go out to their archive and look for this article,

470
00:24:47,560 --> 00:24:48,960
Speaker 1: and the day if you want to search on again

471
00:24:49,080 --> 00:24:53,760
Speaker 1: is November tent I. You know, I'm just guessing that

472
00:24:53,920 --> 00:24:56,440
Speaker 1: somebody just made this up and posted on their website,

473
00:24:56,480 --> 00:24:58,960
Speaker 1: has been copied over the other website since then. It

474
00:24:59,119 --> 00:25:02,560
Speaker 1: follows the thread of a lot of the quote unquote

475
00:25:02,920 --> 00:25:06,320
Speaker 1: facts in details of the stories that they just as

476
00:25:06,520 --> 00:25:09,879
Speaker 1: we said before, tacked on, Oh yeah, definitely, and then

477
00:25:09,920 --> 00:25:12,320
Speaker 1: they gain momentum and then they're tacked on. I don't know,

478
00:25:12,040 --> 00:25:17,640
Speaker 1: I like the story from the Danville b I think

479
00:25:17,720 --> 00:25:20,040
Speaker 1: it's um it makes a lot. I mean, yes, it's

480
00:25:20,080 --> 00:25:24,120
Speaker 1: a mysterious, but it's believable, right, it's believable that these

481
00:25:24,160 --> 00:25:27,760
Speaker 1: things happened. He didn't know these people, you know, he

482
00:25:27,840 --> 00:25:31,680
Speaker 1: wasn't like wandering around. There were some dead dogs, there

483
00:25:31,720 --> 00:25:34,320
Speaker 1: were a couple of rifles left, but it wasn't like

484
00:25:34,920 --> 00:25:39,200
Speaker 1: just everybody had been like teleported or something. The situation, right,

485
00:25:39,680 --> 00:25:44,080
Speaker 1: which I appreciate. Also, you know, it corresponds pretty well

486
00:25:44,119 --> 00:25:47,560
Speaker 1: with what the Mountie's have said where they didn't really investigate. Yeah,

487
00:25:47,600 --> 00:25:50,320
Speaker 1: but but you see the we see a lot of

488
00:25:50,320 --> 00:25:54,640
Speaker 1: the components or you know, the elements of the grandier,

489
00:25:54,760 --> 00:25:56,879
Speaker 1: more grandiose retelling to the story. Okay, if not a

490
00:25:56,920 --> 00:26:01,760
Speaker 1: couple of rusty rifles and they're okay to pay the foundation. Yeah, yeah,

491
00:26:01,800 --> 00:26:04,040
Speaker 1: that that. And and then he found his cairn, which

492
00:26:04,080 --> 00:26:06,359
Speaker 1: he assumed to be a grave and probably was but

493
00:26:06,400 --> 00:26:09,520
Speaker 1: maybe not, which had been taken apart, and the stones

494
00:26:09,640 --> 00:26:12,240
Speaker 1: neatly aside, and that crew of course into an entire

495
00:26:12,320 --> 00:26:16,320
Speaker 1: graveyard being opened up. And so the elements are there

496
00:26:16,600 --> 00:26:19,080
Speaker 1: as far as the rifles go. I mean, it's it's

497
00:26:19,119 --> 00:26:21,879
Speaker 1: possible that if he was telling the truth about finding them,

498
00:26:21,880 --> 00:26:24,120
Speaker 1: they might have been broken rusty rifles that they didn't

499
00:26:24,160 --> 00:26:27,679
Speaker 1: bother taking with them when they left. So let's let's okay.

500
00:26:27,720 --> 00:26:33,359
Speaker 1: So we do have what sounds like a very simplified

501
00:26:33,520 --> 00:26:37,080
Speaker 1: version of a base story, of the base story of

502
00:26:37,160 --> 00:26:41,040
Speaker 1: this group of people disappearing. So do we have anything

503
00:26:41,600 --> 00:26:45,280
Speaker 1: what actually happened to him? Uh? No, But you know,

504
00:26:45,520 --> 00:26:48,800
Speaker 1: the the anyways were kind of a nomadic people. They

505
00:26:48,840 --> 00:26:52,440
Speaker 1: would go around like they were into fishing and hunting,

506
00:26:52,480 --> 00:26:54,160
Speaker 1: and then later on they got a little bit into

507
00:26:54,200 --> 00:26:57,119
Speaker 1: world commerce. They started trapping and trading, but they were

508
00:26:57,119 --> 00:27:01,720
Speaker 1: still nomadic and so they might have just abandoned their camp.

509
00:27:01,960 --> 00:27:03,959
Speaker 1: Well I know that. Well, let me let me go

510
00:27:04,000 --> 00:27:06,040
Speaker 1: through some let me go to some of the other ones.

511
00:27:06,080 --> 00:27:09,320
Speaker 1: Of course, that uh turned our suit the evil spirit

512
00:27:09,840 --> 00:27:13,960
Speaker 1: some people have said proposed aliens trans dimensional traffic travel.

513
00:27:14,280 --> 00:27:16,399
Speaker 1: In my opinion, they might have left just because it

514
00:27:16,480 --> 00:27:18,679
Speaker 1: was an infestation. Maybe they were taken over by fleas,

515
00:27:18,800 --> 00:27:21,879
Speaker 1: you know, like the coastal Indians around here used to,

516
00:27:22,119 --> 00:27:24,439
Speaker 1: and there was a terrible fleet problems that would have

517
00:27:24,480 --> 00:27:26,919
Speaker 1: got bad enough they would just abandon their villages and

518
00:27:26,960 --> 00:27:30,200
Speaker 1: move on to somewhere else. They built another village because

519
00:27:30,320 --> 00:27:32,280
Speaker 1: that's how bad the fleas would get. So there was

520
00:27:32,320 --> 00:27:38,960
Speaker 1: something that was just some local pest and one possibility.

521
00:27:39,000 --> 00:27:42,960
Speaker 1: But but apparently, you know, abandoned any week. Camps are

522
00:27:42,960 --> 00:27:45,240
Speaker 1: not that unusual way up in the frozen North, you know,

523
00:27:45,280 --> 00:27:48,000
Speaker 1: for one reason or another, they just had to move on. Yeah,

524
00:27:48,040 --> 00:27:52,440
Speaker 1: I guess as far as them being nomadic goes, I mean,

525
00:27:52,440 --> 00:27:56,280
Speaker 1: they are, but they usually take their stuff with them,

526
00:27:56,359 --> 00:27:59,240
Speaker 1: Like making a tent out of caribouo hide is not

527
00:28:00,000 --> 00:28:05,560
Speaker 1: particularly easy task, even if you don't take the polls right,

528
00:28:05,680 --> 00:28:08,320
Speaker 1: you take the outside of it, and you leave the

529
00:28:08,320 --> 00:28:10,560
Speaker 1: bare bones of your camp maybe and you know, maybe

530
00:28:10,560 --> 00:28:13,399
Speaker 1: some cast off like your rusty rifle or you know whatever,

531
00:28:14,040 --> 00:28:17,679
Speaker 1: but you know, not fox skins, not Parka's not the

532
00:28:17,800 --> 00:28:22,440
Speaker 1: out food that you're probably gonna want to eat. Yeah. Yeah,

533
00:28:22,640 --> 00:28:25,600
Speaker 1: so it's um a little bit of a head scratcher.

534
00:28:26,160 --> 00:28:28,160
Speaker 1: But let me stop for a second and talk about

535
00:28:28,160 --> 00:28:31,920
Speaker 1: the reporter, Emmy emit Eat kelleher As I said, work

536
00:28:32,000 --> 00:28:35,399
Speaker 1: with the new Newspaper Enterprise Association, and I did a

537
00:28:35,400 --> 00:28:37,520
Speaker 1: little a little digging, and I found some other stories

538
00:28:37,560 --> 00:28:39,880
Speaker 1: that have been written by him because thought I was

539
00:28:39,920 --> 00:28:41,840
Speaker 1: interested in finding out about him, is like, you know,

540
00:28:41,960 --> 00:28:45,680
Speaker 1: is he an actual legitimate reporter or did he just

541
00:28:46,040 --> 00:28:49,880
Speaker 1: write crackpot stories and so and the stories that I found,

542
00:28:49,960 --> 00:28:51,920
Speaker 1: I only found a couple of them, but they were

543
00:28:51,920 --> 00:28:56,200
Speaker 1: actually they've been reprinted in various newspapers and they were

544
00:28:56,240 --> 00:28:58,920
Speaker 1: fairly straight up news stories. One was about there some

545
00:28:58,960 --> 00:29:01,120
Speaker 1: missing airman they're playing crashed and it was this big

546
00:29:01,160 --> 00:29:02,880
Speaker 1: search on for them, and so he wrote a story

547
00:29:02,880 --> 00:29:05,120
Speaker 1: that was picked up by some papers. And another one

548
00:29:05,120 --> 00:29:07,720
Speaker 1: there was a two hundred mile dog sled race in Manitoba,

549
00:29:07,760 --> 00:29:09,760
Speaker 1: and that appeared in several papers that I was able

550
00:29:09,800 --> 00:29:12,040
Speaker 1: to find. And they were straight up news stories, no

551
00:29:12,360 --> 00:29:16,600
Speaker 1: no supernatural stuff at all. So, yeah, he lives in

552
00:29:16,640 --> 00:29:20,320
Speaker 1: Flint Flon, Manitoba, or he lived in Flint Vallon, Manitoba, Manitoba.

553
00:29:20,520 --> 00:29:24,000
Speaker 1: Let me say, obviously he's probably not alive anymore. Flynn

554
00:29:24,000 --> 00:29:26,320
Speaker 1: Flon is right on the border with Saskatchewan. It's like

555
00:29:26,360 --> 00:29:31,640
Speaker 1: five hundred miles south of Andrew Cooney. And apparently this

556
00:29:31,760 --> 00:29:34,920
Speaker 1: story was picked up the Eskima disapparian. Eskima story was

557
00:29:34,960 --> 00:29:39,120
Speaker 1: picked up by many, many papers, but only nobody has

558
00:29:39,160 --> 00:29:41,720
Speaker 1: been able to find any of them except for the

559
00:29:41,800 --> 00:29:47,320
Speaker 1: Bill Dan will be in Virginia. But you know, some

560
00:29:47,400 --> 00:29:50,160
Speaker 1: of the stories were picked up, like the dogsled story

561
00:29:50,200 --> 00:29:52,760
Speaker 1: that was picked up by the Miami Daily News Record

562
00:29:52,880 --> 00:29:57,280
Speaker 1: and Hope, Arkansas Star, the Pittsburgh Sentinel letting his stuff.

563
00:29:57,320 --> 00:29:59,320
Speaker 1: I mean, these guys, this is actually a very successful

564
00:29:59,360 --> 00:30:04,760
Speaker 1: news distribution organization. So his his stories stories whenever. Yeah,

565
00:30:05,120 --> 00:30:07,880
Speaker 1: So there was talk about that, the talk about the

566
00:30:07,920 --> 00:30:11,040
Speaker 1: investigation by the Canadian menta Police. They did say in

567
00:30:11,120 --> 00:30:16,160
Speaker 1: nineteen they got an inquiry from the Australian skeptics, who

568
00:30:16,160 --> 00:30:18,680
Speaker 1: are a bunch of people who look into talk about

569
00:30:18,680 --> 00:30:23,360
Speaker 1: the paranormal, and the reply from the RCMP historian was

570
00:30:23,440 --> 00:30:26,960
Speaker 1: that the people working in that area back in those

571
00:30:27,040 --> 00:30:30,200
Speaker 1: days had since retired, but years before, because his story

572
00:30:30,240 --> 00:30:33,360
Speaker 1: was circulating around, they had been asked about what happened,

573
00:30:33,360 --> 00:30:35,240
Speaker 1: and not one of them could recall anything like this

574
00:30:35,440 --> 00:30:38,880
Speaker 1: ever happening. There's no record anywhere of any sort of

575
00:30:38,920 --> 00:30:42,880
Speaker 1: investigation by the Royal Canadian mount of Police. There was

576
00:30:42,920 --> 00:30:45,520
Speaker 1: never any search expedition and they never went up to

577
00:30:45,560 --> 00:30:49,880
Speaker 1: Leak Couny to see about the disappearing innuits. According to

578
00:30:49,880 --> 00:30:52,840
Speaker 1: this is again according to the RCMP My personal theory

579
00:30:53,000 --> 00:30:56,120
Speaker 1: is this, and you guys can dispute this if you

580
00:30:56,160 --> 00:30:59,560
Speaker 1: want to. But Kelleher was a stringer, which meant he

581
00:30:59,720 --> 00:31:02,560
Speaker 1: probably got paid by the story. In other words, you know,

582
00:31:02,640 --> 00:31:04,880
Speaker 1: he didn't get paid a set salary. He had If

583
00:31:04,880 --> 00:31:06,440
Speaker 1: he did get paid a set salary, then he had

584
00:31:06,440 --> 00:31:10,800
Speaker 1: to produce work. Now, a stringer is basically freelance. Would

585
00:31:10,840 --> 00:31:15,680
Speaker 1: that be correct in a modern phrase? Yeah? And he

586
00:31:15,800 --> 00:31:17,720
Speaker 1: was there guy, He was there guy up in the

587
00:31:17,720 --> 00:31:21,120
Speaker 1: frozen North. So obviously, you know, when something happened like

588
00:31:21,160 --> 00:31:23,880
Speaker 1: this plane crash, well he got to write some stories

589
00:31:23,880 --> 00:31:26,000
Speaker 1: about it and make some money. You know, there's dogs

590
00:31:26,080 --> 00:31:28,480
Speaker 1: led ray, same thing. You know, things are probably up

591
00:31:28,520 --> 00:31:31,120
Speaker 1: there kind of uneventful. So there's probably not a lot

592
00:31:31,120 --> 00:31:32,800
Speaker 1: of not a lot of stories. And my my best

593
00:31:32,840 --> 00:31:35,440
Speaker 1: guests would be that he talked to some guy. Maybe

594
00:31:35,480 --> 00:31:38,160
Speaker 1: there was actually a guy named Joe LaBelle that he

595
00:31:38,200 --> 00:31:40,360
Speaker 1: had a chat with over a beer. And the guy said, yeah,

596
00:31:40,440 --> 00:31:43,720
Speaker 1: you know, was wandering around and lake on Jakuni and

597
00:31:43,760 --> 00:31:47,600
Speaker 1: I came upon this abandoned Eskimo village and I want

598
00:31:47,600 --> 00:31:49,600
Speaker 1: to look at it. It It would just creep me out.

599
00:31:49,960 --> 00:31:52,240
Speaker 1: And so he was saying that probably was like the

600
00:31:52,280 --> 00:31:55,240
Speaker 1: germ of a good idea, because obviously he wants to

601
00:31:55,240 --> 00:31:58,040
Speaker 1: make some money, so he probably took this story and

602
00:31:58,080 --> 00:32:01,400
Speaker 1: embellished it just a little bit. So it's not unusual

603
00:32:01,440 --> 00:32:04,400
Speaker 1: at all to finding at and abandoned any village, but

604
00:32:05,120 --> 00:32:07,440
Speaker 1: one that's got they left behind their rifles and their

605
00:32:07,440 --> 00:32:09,800
Speaker 1: in their possessions and their dogs and all that stuff.

606
00:32:09,840 --> 00:32:12,760
Speaker 1: I mean, that's a little sex here. And you know,

607
00:32:12,880 --> 00:32:15,320
Speaker 1: the odds of that story being picked up by more

608
00:32:15,320 --> 00:32:17,920
Speaker 1: and more papers, which would make him more money, are

609
00:32:18,040 --> 00:32:21,560
Speaker 1: much higher if there's a sexy, sort of mysterious, supernatural

610
00:32:21,560 --> 00:32:23,280
Speaker 1: element to the whole thing. So you're telling me we're

611
00:32:23,280 --> 00:32:29,400
Speaker 1: just discounting aliens. Yeah, I'm sorry. Here's my my question

612
00:32:29,480 --> 00:32:32,600
Speaker 1: for you, Joe, is that do we know from any

613
00:32:32,640 --> 00:32:36,480
Speaker 1: records or have you found anything in the records about

614
00:32:36,520 --> 00:32:40,920
Speaker 1: any kind of turf worce in the area among the natives,

615
00:32:41,840 --> 00:32:46,040
Speaker 1: because this this is something that sounds very similar to

616
00:32:46,080 --> 00:32:49,080
Speaker 1: stories that we've heard, you know, with American Indians, where

617
00:32:49,640 --> 00:32:52,480
Speaker 1: one tribe would go ahead and walk in and kill

618
00:32:52,560 --> 00:32:55,239
Speaker 1: the other tribe, take some of the people away, and

619
00:32:55,280 --> 00:32:58,080
Speaker 1: just leave the tribe. They didn't burn it like you're

620
00:32:58,080 --> 00:33:00,600
Speaker 1: seeing all the Old West movies, they just went ahead

621
00:33:00,600 --> 00:33:02,360
Speaker 1: and took what they wanted, and they left everything behind

622
00:33:02,400 --> 00:33:05,320
Speaker 1: because they didn't care, because they had enough. So I

623
00:33:05,360 --> 00:33:08,440
Speaker 1: wonder if this could be a situation where they just

624
00:33:08,720 --> 00:33:11,560
Speaker 1: came in and grabbed him and took them. You know,

625
00:33:11,880 --> 00:33:15,040
Speaker 1: I could see that possibility, except this area is so

626
00:33:15,080 --> 00:33:18,880
Speaker 1: sparsely populated that I can't see a lot of contention

627
00:33:18,920 --> 00:33:21,160
Speaker 1: for hunting grounds and fishing grounds and stuff like that.

628
00:33:21,440 --> 00:33:24,000
Speaker 1: I also like kind of unlikely. I feel like there

629
00:33:24,000 --> 00:33:26,760
Speaker 1: would be signs of some kind of struggle, would be

630
00:33:26,800 --> 00:33:29,360
Speaker 1: some kind of fight. Well, if it's let's say it's

631
00:33:29,440 --> 00:33:32,160
Speaker 1: just six months to a year later for that time

632
00:33:32,200 --> 00:33:34,240
Speaker 1: to take for a rifle that's sitting in a tent

633
00:33:34,360 --> 00:33:38,400
Speaker 1: to russ. A lot of those signs are footprints in

634
00:33:38,400 --> 00:33:40,680
Speaker 1: the dirt and things being knocked over. But as a

635
00:33:40,760 --> 00:33:44,280
Speaker 1: year's time goes by, they take the bodies and stuff.

636
00:33:44,360 --> 00:33:46,120
Speaker 1: Is that the deal? I mean, like, if they killed

637
00:33:46,160 --> 00:33:48,640
Speaker 1: any of the men in the village, what you're saying, no,

638
00:33:48,760 --> 00:33:50,400
Speaker 1: I I don't know that they even killed them. I

639
00:33:50,400 --> 00:33:53,080
Speaker 1: mean there's all kinds of takeovers where not no blood

640
00:33:53,200 --> 00:33:55,840
Speaker 1: is spilled. I mean I'm thinking of this grave, that

641
00:33:56,160 --> 00:33:59,320
Speaker 1: this care and that he saw that then seemed like

642
00:33:59,360 --> 00:34:02,240
Speaker 1: maybe had been desecreated, and that was kind of their

643
00:34:02,360 --> 00:34:05,120
Speaker 1: their you know, their last act to prove, all right,

644
00:34:05,560 --> 00:34:07,760
Speaker 1: we we own you now and you're part of us,

645
00:34:07,800 --> 00:34:10,400
Speaker 1: and you're trying no longer exist because we just destroyed

646
00:34:10,440 --> 00:34:15,759
Speaker 1: this this altar, whatever it may be to them. Yeah,

647
00:34:15,800 --> 00:34:19,319
Speaker 1: I guess I still say, like, yes, they might have

648
00:34:19,360 --> 00:34:21,600
Speaker 1: a lot, but you can never have too much caribou.

649
00:34:22,719 --> 00:34:27,960
Speaker 1: You have too many caribou skins, rifles which warmth, well, rifles, Okay,

650
00:34:28,000 --> 00:34:30,279
Speaker 1: if they're again, we can just I feel like I

651
00:34:30,440 --> 00:34:33,160
Speaker 1: in my brain like those rifles were just bad rifles.

652
00:34:33,280 --> 00:34:37,640
Speaker 1: The like in my brain, they probably were busted, best

653
00:34:37,640 --> 00:34:43,520
Speaker 1: to repair, unless the tents were like in bad shape.

654
00:34:44,160 --> 00:34:46,880
Speaker 1: All He said that one of them was, according to

655
00:34:46,880 --> 00:34:49,680
Speaker 1: the story, one of them was kind of shredded. Yeah. Yeah,

656
00:34:49,920 --> 00:34:52,560
Speaker 1: and but that's but then again he also estimated again

657
00:34:52,600 --> 00:34:55,239
Speaker 1: that the camp have been abandoned for at least a year,

658
00:34:56,080 --> 00:34:59,200
Speaker 1: so you know, when and everything else, whether conditions are

659
00:34:59,200 --> 00:35:02,320
Speaker 1: harsh up there, it's entirely possible. I you know, I

660
00:35:02,360 --> 00:35:06,120
Speaker 1: guess my theory is the kind of nomadic situation except

661
00:35:06,160 --> 00:35:09,160
Speaker 1: for that it's it's inhospitable to anyone. So you know,

662
00:35:09,200 --> 00:35:12,960
Speaker 1: this tribe of people Ish goes out and it's like, oh,

663
00:35:13,120 --> 00:35:14,920
Speaker 1: there's no one around here, we're gonna just set up

664
00:35:14,960 --> 00:35:18,480
Speaker 1: camp here. And they set up camp and then, you know,

665
00:35:18,520 --> 00:35:21,440
Speaker 1: because they've had to leave their old camp for whatever reason,

666
00:35:22,160 --> 00:35:24,920
Speaker 1: they get there and they realize that they're literally dying,

667
00:35:25,160 --> 00:35:27,799
Speaker 1: so they leave some of their dogs, right, because you

668
00:35:27,840 --> 00:35:30,239
Speaker 1: don't want to have to feed the dogs all the time.

669
00:35:30,400 --> 00:35:34,920
Speaker 1: You take some but not all. You leave some stuff

670
00:35:35,000 --> 00:35:37,279
Speaker 1: because you literally just can't carry it. You know, you

671
00:35:37,280 --> 00:35:39,960
Speaker 1: can carry what's on your backs or whatever, and you

672
00:35:40,040 --> 00:35:43,480
Speaker 1: just walk away from it. But then you would think that,

673
00:35:43,880 --> 00:35:46,239
Speaker 1: you know, if this guy was traveling around meeting with

674
00:35:46,280 --> 00:35:49,200
Speaker 1: other Innuit tribes, they would be like, oh yeah, oh yeah,

675
00:35:49,239 --> 00:35:52,279
Speaker 1: that was us so the other well, and that that

676
00:35:52,320 --> 00:35:54,640
Speaker 1: makes me wonder, okay, well, why would they get Well,

677
00:35:54,680 --> 00:35:58,960
Speaker 1: the infestation is one reason. Um, And if they're nomadic,

678
00:35:59,000 --> 00:36:02,160
Speaker 1: that means they go to different sites during different seasons

679
00:36:02,160 --> 00:36:04,680
Speaker 1: and times of year to take advantage of what's there.

680
00:36:05,440 --> 00:36:11,200
Speaker 1: And I wonder if they either overstayed one time, as in, okay,

681
00:36:11,239 --> 00:36:14,279
Speaker 1: we should we should be leaving it September and then

682
00:36:14,719 --> 00:36:18,000
Speaker 1: everybody drugged their feet and suddenly it's late October. We

683
00:36:18,160 --> 00:36:20,320
Speaker 1: really got to get out of here. The weather is terrible.

684
00:36:21,120 --> 00:36:23,640
Speaker 1: Or if they got there and there was a sudden

685
00:36:23,760 --> 00:36:26,719
Speaker 1: change in the weather and winter came super early, and

686
00:36:26,840 --> 00:36:28,960
Speaker 1: I'm trying to think of things that would force them

687
00:36:28,960 --> 00:36:31,959
Speaker 1: out of the village in a hurry. If suddenly there's

688
00:36:32,000 --> 00:36:34,839
Speaker 1: a blizzard and grab yourself and go. You know, they

689
00:36:34,840 --> 00:36:37,680
Speaker 1: may have died in route wherever they were going, or

690
00:36:37,680 --> 00:36:41,279
Speaker 1: they may have made it and just ignored the story. Well,

691
00:36:41,280 --> 00:36:44,560
Speaker 1: the fact of the matter is is like if if

692
00:36:44,600 --> 00:36:46,840
Speaker 1: they were saying no matter, if they abandoned the village,

693
00:36:46,840 --> 00:36:48,920
Speaker 1: say because I say they had fleas, and then that's

694
00:36:48,960 --> 00:36:51,640
Speaker 1: that's a good reason to abandon your all your caribou

695
00:36:51,760 --> 00:36:57,200
Speaker 1: chance because they and so if they had a band

696
00:36:57,280 --> 00:36:59,160
Speaker 1: in there that and then moved down the road a

697
00:36:59,160 --> 00:37:02,040
Speaker 1: little ways and build another village, how would anybody know?

698
00:37:02,719 --> 00:37:06,760
Speaker 1: It's like, oh, there's another Inuit village and maybe away,

699
00:37:07,040 --> 00:37:09,160
Speaker 1: and how would anybody Now, I mean, it's like that,

700
00:37:09,239 --> 00:37:12,720
Speaker 1: this is nineteen thirty. It's like, you know, so it's

701
00:37:12,840 --> 00:37:15,160
Speaker 1: entirely possible these guys left and just set up shops

702
00:37:15,160 --> 00:37:19,600
Speaker 1: somewhere else, and for just normal, mundane reasons, this one

703
00:37:19,800 --> 00:37:26,640
Speaker 1: is scarily simple. Yeah, very simple answers, but none of

704
00:37:26,640 --> 00:37:31,000
Speaker 1: them seem to match exactly. As in the it's when

705
00:37:31,000 --> 00:37:32,520
Speaker 1: you get two pieces of jigsaw and they look like

706
00:37:32,560 --> 00:37:35,400
Speaker 1: they're going to go and don't. Yeah, I think you know,

707
00:37:35,440 --> 00:37:38,440
Speaker 1: And that's a great argument for why it's made up.

708
00:37:40,360 --> 00:37:42,239
Speaker 1: It's just a made up story. Again. Yeah, you have

709
00:37:42,560 --> 00:37:45,880
Speaker 1: you have a reporter who who maybe had a small

710
00:37:45,920 --> 00:37:48,359
Speaker 1: incentive to jazz of the story just a little bit,

711
00:37:48,920 --> 00:37:50,560
Speaker 1: or just make it up entirely. I mean, you know,

712
00:37:50,600 --> 00:37:53,000
Speaker 1: you could have also made it up entirely if we're

713
00:37:53,000 --> 00:37:55,600
Speaker 1: gonna go with the he made it up theory, you know.

714
00:37:55,640 --> 00:37:58,279
Speaker 1: And he's a reporter, so he knows that it has

715
00:37:58,320 --> 00:38:00,920
Speaker 1: to sound believable. It can't actually sound like, you know,

716
00:38:00,960 --> 00:38:05,680
Speaker 1: there's two thousand disappeared out of nowhere. He knows it

717
00:38:05,719 --> 00:38:08,640
Speaker 1: has to be totally reasonable, and that there can't be

718
00:38:08,920 --> 00:38:11,120
Speaker 1: so many details that somebody could go up and like

719
00:38:11,320 --> 00:38:14,120
Speaker 1: look for this place. Right. That's good, that's that's that's

720
00:38:14,160 --> 00:38:16,560
Speaker 1: that's a very good point. You pick a spot, You

721
00:38:16,640 --> 00:38:19,240
Speaker 1: pick a spot that's like five miles away and literally

722
00:38:19,600 --> 00:38:22,879
Speaker 1: and is five hundred miles away from where this guy lives, right,

723
00:38:22,920 --> 00:38:24,840
Speaker 1: and then you say, you know, like nobody's going to

724
00:38:24,960 --> 00:38:27,040
Speaker 1: contact the mounteas and if they do, there's so many,

725
00:38:27,160 --> 00:38:30,279
Speaker 1: like they're so far dispersed that there's no way. You know,

726
00:38:30,320 --> 00:38:32,960
Speaker 1: it's ni it's all you can just call over, well

727
00:38:33,000 --> 00:38:36,560
Speaker 1: you could, but it's Canada, so it's like the nineteen

728
00:38:36,600 --> 00:38:41,880
Speaker 1: hundreds really, So you know, you call over and you say, oh,

729
00:38:42,160 --> 00:38:43,880
Speaker 1: did you guys go up to this place? You're not

730
00:38:43,880 --> 00:38:46,840
Speaker 1: gonna do that. Nobody cares, you know, maybe that you know,

731
00:38:46,880 --> 00:38:48,879
Speaker 1: they probably somebody else must have done it. I don't

732
00:38:48,880 --> 00:38:51,640
Speaker 1: know where we're coming with it. It's just a head scratcher. Well,

733
00:38:51,920 --> 00:38:53,640
Speaker 1: you know, I you know, I don't think it's even

734
00:38:53,640 --> 00:38:55,440
Speaker 1: a head scratcher. I think I think I think it

735
00:38:55,520 --> 00:38:58,520
Speaker 1: was just a somewhat exaggerated story that grew in the telling.

736
00:38:58,920 --> 00:39:00,879
Speaker 1: So the story actually well let me let me get

737
00:39:00,920 --> 00:39:02,640
Speaker 1: into the history of the story too. So it was

738
00:39:03,280 --> 00:39:06,440
Speaker 1: originally was published in nineteen thirty and then dropped out

739
00:39:06,440 --> 00:39:09,719
Speaker 1: of existence for decades. And in the nineteen sixties a

740
00:39:09,719 --> 00:39:11,880
Speaker 1: guy named Frank Edwards. She wrote a book named Stranger

741
00:39:11,920 --> 00:39:14,200
Speaker 1: than Fiction or Stranger than Science or something like that.

742
00:39:14,760 --> 00:39:16,560
Speaker 1: I remember reading that book when I was a kid. Actually,

743
00:39:16,600 --> 00:39:19,520
Speaker 1: but I don't remember this particular story. So he dredged

744
00:39:19,560 --> 00:39:22,080
Speaker 1: the story up and put it in his book, one

745
00:39:22,120 --> 00:39:24,719
Speaker 1: of those unsolved mysteries kind of thing, and then it

746
00:39:24,920 --> 00:39:27,920
Speaker 1: dropped out of existence again for years, and then in

747
00:39:27,960 --> 00:39:32,080
Speaker 1: the mid seventies, a magazine called Fate published a story

748
00:39:32,120 --> 00:39:35,000
Speaker 1: about it. At that point, that's when things really changed

749
00:39:35,040 --> 00:39:39,000
Speaker 1: a little bit, because somebody read the article and wrote

750
00:39:39,040 --> 00:39:42,160
Speaker 1: in a letter about it to the magazine, and this

751
00:39:42,320 --> 00:39:44,600
Speaker 1: person I can't remember her name, but she claimed to

752
00:39:44,600 --> 00:39:48,640
Speaker 1: have been a UFO abductee, and so she read the

753
00:39:48,680 --> 00:39:52,000
Speaker 1: story and the part and she took great, great exception

754
00:39:52,040 --> 00:39:54,920
Speaker 1: to the story that the Royal Canadian mount of Police

755
00:39:54,920 --> 00:39:58,080
Speaker 1: had not investigated this or denied investigating it, because she

756
00:39:58,160 --> 00:40:00,759
Speaker 1: said that on a ferry ride some years before this,

757
00:40:01,560 --> 00:40:04,000
Speaker 1: she had met a guy who said he worked for

758
00:40:04,040 --> 00:40:07,520
Speaker 1: the Canadian Mounties and that he spent nine years tracking

759
00:40:07,560 --> 00:40:13,600
Speaker 1: this case, and that yeah, yeah, and that was I know,

760
00:40:13,760 --> 00:40:17,680
Speaker 1: I don't know, yeah, yeah, I know. And so at

761
00:40:17,760 --> 00:40:21,480
Speaker 1: that from that point on, of course, now now UFOs

762
00:40:21,560 --> 00:40:25,120
Speaker 1: attached themselves to the story, and so UFOs are all

763
00:40:25,400 --> 00:40:27,279
Speaker 1: an integral part of the story now now anytime, but

764
00:40:27,280 --> 00:40:30,320
Speaker 1: anybody talks about it, it's like, oh what about UFOs

765
00:40:29,840 --> 00:40:32,799
Speaker 1: and and that's and and again six years after that,

766
00:40:32,840 --> 00:40:35,799
Speaker 1: I think it was six seven years after that book

767
00:40:35,880 --> 00:40:39,920
Speaker 1: came out. Actually that actually appended that part about the

768
00:40:39,960 --> 00:40:43,840
Speaker 1: trapper named armand Laurent and he mentioned seeing a UFO

769
00:40:43,920 --> 00:40:48,480
Speaker 1: in the sky. Oh that's yeah, yeah, but the genesis

770
00:40:48,600 --> 00:40:51,320
Speaker 1: was back from this this person's correspondence with this magazine

771
00:40:51,320 --> 00:40:53,239
Speaker 1: who claimed to have talked to a mountee who's spent

772
00:40:53,320 --> 00:40:56,799
Speaker 1: nine years investigating this. But I don't think there's nine

773
00:40:56,840 --> 00:41:00,600
Speaker 1: years of material, and I don't think so is barely

774
00:41:00,680 --> 00:41:06,640
Speaker 1: like what thirty minutes worth of material. Yeah, I fully

775
00:41:06,680 --> 00:41:10,919
Speaker 1: investigated all. Yeah, we've gone through it pretty thoroughly, you know. Yeah,

776
00:41:11,360 --> 00:41:13,560
Speaker 1: I can't imagine the mount he is getting too excited

777
00:41:13,600 --> 00:41:15,520
Speaker 1: about it. Somebody comes and says, oh my god, my god,

778
00:41:15,560 --> 00:41:19,120
Speaker 1: I ad any week camp and they'd say, yeah, why

779
00:41:19,120 --> 00:41:22,560
Speaker 1: do we care? And that's I'm sure there wasn't a

780
00:41:22,640 --> 00:41:26,080
Speaker 1: nine year investigation. Yeah, I'm sure there wasn't any investigation.

781
00:41:27,600 --> 00:41:32,080
Speaker 1: So anyway, this result it was not a mystery at all.

782
00:41:32,160 --> 00:41:35,120
Speaker 1: It's a fake y. Yeah, it's just kind of just

783
00:41:36,120 --> 00:41:38,680
Speaker 1: I don't I don't, I don't I don't follow a fake.

784
00:41:38,719 --> 00:41:41,120
Speaker 1: I think that there's some like we've talked about, there's

785
00:41:41,160 --> 00:41:43,799
Speaker 1: some seed of truths in there, but I just don't

786
00:41:43,880 --> 00:41:47,160
Speaker 1: know where it is. Steve going in for the underdog

787
00:41:47,200 --> 00:41:51,520
Speaker 1: thing again. You just keep being the name there. That's

788
00:41:51,520 --> 00:41:54,640
Speaker 1: crazy Nancy naysayer here. Yeah, well, I'm gonna go with

789
00:41:54,680 --> 00:41:56,440
Speaker 1: I'm gonna go with my theory, which is just this

790
00:41:56,440 --> 00:41:59,160
Speaker 1: guy was drinking. This guy was drinking beers in a

791
00:41:59,200 --> 00:42:01,399
Speaker 1: bar next to this porter and started telling this story

792
00:42:01,440 --> 00:42:03,759
Speaker 1: about how he came across an abandoned Innywit village. He

793
00:42:03,880 --> 00:42:06,000
Speaker 1: was creeped out by it. And then the reported thought,

794
00:42:06,000 --> 00:42:08,239
Speaker 1: we're gonna I'm gonna drag a story out of this

795
00:42:08,320 --> 00:42:10,279
Speaker 1: and I'm gonna jazz it up just a little bit

796
00:42:10,320 --> 00:42:11,719
Speaker 1: so to get picked up by a whole lot more

797
00:42:11,760 --> 00:42:13,760
Speaker 1: papers and all the more money. Have a new theory.

798
00:42:14,320 --> 00:42:18,040
Speaker 1: Let's past on that, right. This explorer dude, he's like

799
00:42:18,520 --> 00:42:20,359
Speaker 1: sitting next to a reporter and the guys like, yeah,

800
00:42:20,400 --> 00:42:23,600
Speaker 1: I'm a reporter, and he goes, oh you are, I

801
00:42:23,680 --> 00:42:32,400
Speaker 1: have a story to him. Let's see, Yeah, there I was.

802
00:42:33,040 --> 00:42:35,760
Speaker 1: I mean, and surely if he's if he sees inuits

803
00:42:35,800 --> 00:42:38,239
Speaker 1: and stuff like that, he sees these abandoned places, he

804
00:42:38,280 --> 00:42:42,600
Speaker 1: knows they exist. You know, it's perfect. It's the perfect

805
00:42:42,600 --> 00:42:45,239
Speaker 1: mix of the theories. Okay, yeah, I like it. I

806
00:42:45,239 --> 00:42:47,720
Speaker 1: think that's a good one. Or actually, a third theory

807
00:42:47,760 --> 00:42:49,440
Speaker 1: is that he wasn't actually a trapper at all. He

808
00:42:49,560 --> 00:42:55,920
Speaker 1: was a troop of cobra all right. Anyway, So that's it.

809
00:42:56,680 --> 00:42:58,680
Speaker 1: If you want to check out links to the story,

810
00:42:58,760 --> 00:43:00,600
Speaker 1: and we'll have plenty of stuff about there for you

811
00:43:00,640 --> 00:43:03,840
Speaker 1: to look at. Check out our website Thinking Sideways podcast

812
00:43:04,080 --> 00:43:07,200
Speaker 1: dot com. And if you would like to send us

813
00:43:07,239 --> 00:43:09,640
Speaker 1: an email with your own particular theories about the case,

814
00:43:10,080 --> 00:43:13,400
Speaker 1: send us an email at Thinking Sideways Podcast at gmail

815
00:43:13,520 --> 00:43:16,680
Speaker 1: dot com, and also check us out on iTunes and

816
00:43:16,760 --> 00:43:20,160
Speaker 1: on Stitcher. I do hope that somebody out there is

817
00:43:20,200 --> 00:43:21,719
Speaker 1: not as cheap as mean. You pull me up the

818
00:43:21,760 --> 00:43:27,560
Speaker 1: cash for the Toronto Stars Archives site. Yeah maybe that too. Uh.

819
00:43:27,600 --> 00:43:29,919
Speaker 1: And if you're an anyway, and I've mispronounced all the names,

820
00:43:29,920 --> 00:43:32,520
Speaker 1: so I'm really sorry, feel a free to call us

821
00:43:32,800 --> 00:43:35,000
Speaker 1: or send us an email and explain how to pronounce

822
00:43:35,000 --> 00:43:39,040
Speaker 1: that stuff. Anyway. That's it for now, see you next week.

823
00:43:39,120 --> 00:43:44,640
Speaker 1: I'm Joe, so long, Bye bye bye,