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Speaker 1: Hello, and welcome to cool people that did cool stuff.

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Speaker 1: I'm your host, Margaret Giljoy. Sophie has gone through my

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Speaker 1: script and added exclamation points at the end of the sentences.

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Speaker 1: Who am I hided out the wisdom of Sophie today.

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Speaker 1: It's actually something I would In fact, you I love

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Speaker 1: an exclamation point. Don't reserve it for the ends of

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Speaker 1: sentences though beginnings middles everywhere. I once got told I

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Speaker 1: once got told I used too many exclamation points and

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Speaker 1: emails and um that fucked with younger me, and now

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Speaker 1: I'm like, fuck you seven exclamation points. Yeah, I feel

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Speaker 1: like that's like a good, like power move of like

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Speaker 1: doing the thing that you're getting told you shouldn't do

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Speaker 1: because it's feminized, which is like showing excitement and emails

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Speaker 1: is like feminized, and in a business environment you're never

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Speaker 1: supposed to show any kind of weakness or femininity. But

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Speaker 1: nothing says I have fucking power like continuing to do

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Speaker 1: that being like I'm actually it's like it's like sometimes

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Speaker 1: when people are like trying to pick on me, I'm like, oh,

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Speaker 1: here is where I'm vulnerable, and I like show them

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Speaker 1: my belly because I'm like, because I'm not because you

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Speaker 1: can't hurt me. You come from my belly and I'll

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Speaker 1: grab you with my clause. Yeah exactly, So fuck you.

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Speaker 1: This is cool people who did cool stuff and you

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Speaker 1: are kill joy. Yeah, and my guest today is Hugh

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Speaker 1: fucking Ryan. Could be a good joke. Okay anyway, sorry,

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Speaker 1: um what all right? Hi? Hugh? Hi? What are you doing?

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Speaker 1: Glad to be back? Yeay on this totally separate day.

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Speaker 1: It's not still raining, Yeah, no, totally. Sophie is our producer. Hi,

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Speaker 1: Sophie Ian does our audio engineering on woman wrote our

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Speaker 1: theme song. So if you haven't listened to part one,

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Speaker 1: I don't know what to tell you. I spent an

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Speaker 1: entire episode trying to give you the context and here

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Speaker 1: you are just skipping it. It makes me feel like

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Speaker 1: my work isn't appreciated by you a listener. How dare

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Speaker 1: you people? Yeah, you're gonna like really disappoint us. I

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Speaker 1: hope you're pausing right now thinking about what you did

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Speaker 1: and going back to listen to episode one. I really

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Speaker 1: think you should. So. In short, Ireland is being sucked

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Speaker 1: up by colonization, as if it didn't have enough problems

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Speaker 1: on its own, and our hero Grana Nawalia, who we

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Speaker 1: barely got to in the first episode, was born into privilege,

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Speaker 1: into a crime family, and now she's doing some crime.

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Speaker 1: And the English are trying to tell Irish people to

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Speaker 1: stop rocking cool mullets and mustaches, and we'll get back

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Speaker 1: into it. So Granna, no way is They didn't give

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Speaker 1: a ship about England trying to tell Irish people to

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Speaker 1: stop being Irish. The king could say whatever he wanted.

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Speaker 1: They were fucking badass pirates on the West Coast who

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Speaker 1: spoke Irish and Latin and or whatever they wanted to

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Speaker 1: like she wore pants, for example. She grew up to

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Speaker 1: cuss and fight and sale until she was sixty and

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Speaker 1: her dad was like, all right, time to marry you

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Speaker 1: off for politics because you got born into privilege as

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Speaker 1: a girl. And sometimes that sucks, but it seemed to

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Speaker 1: kind of work out for her. People like to conjecture.

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Speaker 1: I like to conjecture about the private lives of the

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Speaker 1: people that we talked about. She was handed off to

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Speaker 1: be married to some guy named Donald O Flairty. Donald

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Speaker 1: of the Battles was his nickname. Sometimes it translated as

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Speaker 1: Donald of the War because he liked to fight. His

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Speaker 1: family motto actually just rules its fortune favors the bold

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Speaker 1: of all cliches, it's one of the best ones. Her

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Speaker 1: family motto was like powerful by sea and land, which

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Speaker 1: also was true. My father always told us that our

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Speaker 1: family motto was suffering silence. But it's very Irish. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: that was yep. Huh. Donald of the Battles had some

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Speaker 1: of his own lands, but he was an heir to

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Speaker 1: even more lands, and he was he was real fighty

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Speaker 1: probably like like some of the historians are like, look,

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Speaker 1: this guy doesn't telling the guests about best guy to

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Speaker 1: be married to when you imagine like this, you know,

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Speaker 1: brood of a man or whatever. But but honestly, I

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Speaker 1: don't know, Like I found nothing that implies he was

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Speaker 1: anything but polite to her, And like maybe they were

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Speaker 1: both just super into it. She's not exactly not fighting,

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Speaker 1: and I mean, it's nice to have your husband go

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Speaker 1: off to war regularly, you know, you go do that.

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Speaker 1: That's a long way to sail. You go fight that war. Yes, totally,

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Speaker 1: And honestly, I think there's a chance they were both

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Speaker 1: super into it though, just like being a weird fighting couple,

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Speaker 1: not like fighting with each other, but like enjoying battle

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Speaker 1: because of what happens next. And so I like to

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Speaker 1: think that they both just like to fight and fucking

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Speaker 1: drinking cuss and Rob, because we have evidence that she

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Speaker 1: liked to fight and fucking drinking Cusso and Rob. And

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Speaker 1: she continued to funk whoever she wanted throughout her entire life,

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Speaker 1: with no reference at any point to any husband being

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Speaker 1: upset by this. Because she's in charge. So she was

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Speaker 1: shipped off to be a good wife. She's quickly in charge.

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Speaker 1: She pops out three babies, one with the best name ever,

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Speaker 1: Margaret or perhaps married, and instead of being a happy

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Speaker 1: homemaker lady or really changing to adopt the a flairty way,

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Speaker 1: she imports her family traditions to her new family. And

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Speaker 1: by family traditions, I mean she gets a bunch of

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Speaker 1: ships and she goes out and she takes other people's stuff,

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Speaker 1: you know, do what you know, yeah, exactly, stick to

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Speaker 1: your strength. Soon her and her new family and their

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Speaker 1: retainers because their nobility, so they've retainers. They're just robbing

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Speaker 1: the ship out of Galway. They just like show up

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Speaker 1: outside of Galway and every boat that comes in and out,

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Speaker 1: they're like, you know, they're like, hey, you want to

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Speaker 1: come in here. Well, we'll let you in. But the

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Speaker 1: problem is there's a lot of like cannonballs going everywhere.

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Speaker 1: Wouldn't it be better if there weren't any cannonballs? We

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Speaker 1: could help with that. I like Galway. It's where my

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Speaker 1: family is from. It's on the west coast, it's in

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Speaker 1: the goal tech to the part of Ireland that stayed

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Speaker 1: less colonized overall, in the Irish stayed alive as a

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Speaker 1: language more successfully. But medieval Galway was was a little

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Speaker 1: boot licky. The English crown had more control their overall

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Speaker 1: compared to most places outside of dub One. They even

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Speaker 1: passed a no mustaches law years before the King of

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Speaker 1: England told everyone else that they had to have a

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Speaker 1: no mustaches law. So, and also, there's two ways of

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Speaker 1: looking at this. There are a bunch of cry baby

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Speaker 1: snitches who ran to Daddy as soon as they started

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Speaker 1: getting attacked by Grania or maybe this like murderer showed

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Speaker 1: up and kept murdering people, and they went and found

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Speaker 1: someone who could try to stop her potato potato exactly.

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Speaker 1: Granna didn't call it piracy and murder. She called it

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Speaker 1: maintenance by sea and land maintenance, meaning um money that's

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Speaker 1: like owed to you, um, and it was a protection racket.

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Speaker 1: You know, you've got that nice boat full of stuff,

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Speaker 1: you want to land in Galway, we can work that

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Speaker 1: out for you. And they actually also did some value

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Speaker 1: added because the whole west coast of Ireland is really

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Speaker 1: treacherous to sale, and they had pilots and stuff who

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Speaker 1: would help people navigate to the waters. And there's like

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Speaker 1: some argument that she didn't really go pirate until a

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Speaker 1: little bit later. I think she was born a pirate

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Speaker 1: and died a pirate, and the whole time she's sucking

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Speaker 1: the people she wants to fuck. I'm sure her husband

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Speaker 1: was too. I really want what's best for both of

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Speaker 1: them and their happy little murder bandit family. Her husband

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Speaker 1: either let her take the reins of the family's power

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Speaker 1: or just couldn't stop her. It seems likely though, because

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Speaker 1: he just liked fighting, and so she organized everything real

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Speaker 1: well where he got to fight a lot, so no problems.

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Speaker 1: And I've rarely encountered an Irish family that wasn't mostly matriarchal. Honestly,

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Speaker 1: when you know, I know, it's kind of funny because

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Speaker 1: like this is actually one of the bigger sources of

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Speaker 1: tension between um actually even like Irish Celts versus Scottish

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Speaker 1: celt is like some stuff about matrilineality and patriolineality, and

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Speaker 1: that Ireland overall was a more patrilineal and like patriarchal

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Speaker 1: place and there's like worse inheritance laws for women in

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Speaker 1: Ireland than even in England at this point. But at

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Speaker 1: the end of the day, that is my experience as well,

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Speaker 1: that is my understanding of Irish culture. Official power to

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Speaker 1: the man so that he has something to hold onto,

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Speaker 1: keep him busy. Yeah, totally. Meanwhile, speaking of girl bosses,

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Speaker 1: Henry the eighth is dead and Mary tudor Queen Mary,

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Speaker 1: she got to be the Queen of England for a while.

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Speaker 1: She's the first Queen Regnant of England, the first queen

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Speaker 1: who's the ruler instead of being queen by being married

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Speaker 1: to the King Regnant, who they probably don't call the

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Speaker 1: King Regnant. She took the throne by military force after

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Speaker 1: being cut out of the line of secession, and she

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Speaker 1: gets called bloody Mary. And if you want to see

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Speaker 1: what she looks like, go into the bathroom, turn off

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Speaker 1: the lights, turn around eight saying bloody marry and look

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Speaker 1: at the mirror, speaking of seeing queer reflections in the mirror.

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Speaker 1: Actually wrote this essay a long time ago about like

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Speaker 1: transmiss and bloody Mary and like seeing the being afraid

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Speaker 1: of the woman in the mirror who it was the

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Speaker 1: first time I've really read about Mary Tudor, And it's like,

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Speaker 1: I don't really like royalty, but there's still like I

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Speaker 1: have a certain simple thief for the way in which

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Speaker 1: her like femininity was portrayed as monstrous, Like specifically there's

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Speaker 1: like essays going around at the time complaining about monstrous

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Speaker 1: regiment like rule by monsters because she's a monster, because

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Speaker 1: she's a Catholic and a woman. And to be fair,

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Speaker 1: she got the name bloody Mary because she had this

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Speaker 1: habit of setting Protestants on fire in public places, but

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Speaker 1: by burning them at the stake, not like personally walking

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Speaker 1: around with a lighter. She's been a little more creative

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Speaker 1: Burnt Mary or fiery Mary. Bloody really does not to

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Speaker 1: me imply you set people on fire, I know, and

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Speaker 1: she asked go ahead. The Brits had real problems with

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Speaker 1: naming things. Aside from not having the word mustache, they

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Speaker 1: clearly did not know how to properly name someone who

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Speaker 1: sets people on fire. I just know, you know that's true.

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Speaker 1: That is a really good point. And she's way less

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Speaker 1: bloody than her fucking murdered dad, Henry the Eighth, who's

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Speaker 1: like just famous for being murder guy, Like that's his

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Speaker 1: fucking claim to fame as that. And didn't he write

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Speaker 1: Green's Leaves? Did he? Really? Because really, all I know

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Speaker 1: are the wives. You know, it's bad when history only

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Speaker 1: remembers you for killing your wives, because usually history forgets

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Speaker 1: that you killed your wife. I know. Yeah. And Mary

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Speaker 1: Tudor she was really good to her husband. Her husband

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Speaker 1: was bisexual and he really liked to funk dudes. And

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Speaker 1: so she revoked and I don't know if this is

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Speaker 1: why or she just did it because it was right.

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Speaker 1: She revokes her dad's anti buggery laws. She legalized homosexuality.

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Speaker 1: Her reign was the last time gay men could legally

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Speaker 1: fuck in England for the next three hundred years. It

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Speaker 1: was a capital asterous step by saying gay and homosexuality,

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Speaker 1: I think our terms that we cannot quite really apply

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Speaker 1: to people living in this time, but certainly acts of sodomy. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it's just you know, identity ideas, all right, this kind

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Speaker 1: that goes back to we're talking about the last episode.

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Speaker 1: Ideas of identity don't really make sense back then. Practice

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Speaker 1: makes sense material culture of what it means to be

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Speaker 1: a fag, if you will, But in terms of like

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Speaker 1: what these laws actually mean in the place that they

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Speaker 1: exist in the world, like I think we're often it's

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Speaker 1: really easy to sort of say, like they were letting

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Speaker 1: gay people live, they were not letting gay people. That

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Speaker 1: it's more space and it's not ever quite that. So

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Speaker 1: just okay, no, no, no, that it's it's quite all right.

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Speaker 1: There's the thing that you are the expert on is

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Speaker 1: a good thing to interject about. And you did mention

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Speaker 1: that historians like to argue, so I feel I have

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Speaker 1: to up to my reputation. Oh well, then I have

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Speaker 1: to not They're totally game and okay, um, anyway, men

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Speaker 1: could suck men for the first time under her reign legally,

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Speaker 1: so her dad was a fucking misogynous monster and she's

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Speaker 1: the one wh gets called bloody Mary. She also sucked

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Speaker 1: with Ireland a little bit, but not that much. She

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Speaker 1: like way let off the foot off the pedal of

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Speaker 1: the colonized Ireland and funk over one over thing at

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Speaker 1: least one history and I read talked about her reign

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Speaker 1: is basically letting off the steam and mustaches for everyone.

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Speaker 1: I guess mustaches and mustache rides, and that's a slogan

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Speaker 1: for a queen. She didn't rule super long. She died

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Speaker 1: from what was probably a very incestor uterine cancer. It

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Speaker 1: was a false pregnancy, is what it was called at

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Speaker 1: the time, which ties into the well a lot of

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Speaker 1: the stuff about how her gender ties into her rein

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Speaker 1: and kind of really negative ways, and she does. Granny

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Speaker 1: is like twenty eight or something. At this point Elizabeth,

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Speaker 1: her half sister, rose to the throne. Immediately everyone's like, hell, yeah,

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Speaker 1: let's go funk up Ireland, because this is the thing

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Speaker 1: that gets left out of like whenever I reached it.

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Speaker 1: That's like, oh, and what are these kings doing over

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Speaker 1: here in England and ship you'll read about them and

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Speaker 1: then they're like, well, and then they turned around and

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Speaker 1: murdered everyone who's just like immediately over somewhere else anyway, whatever.

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Speaker 1: I guess everyone knows that Britain's bad, So I hope,

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Speaker 1: I hope it's certainly something was drilled into me as

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Speaker 1: a child. My parents are so Irish. This is always

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Speaker 1: the story I tell that. On the morning of September eleven,

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Speaker 1: I overslept and so I woke up to my parents

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Speaker 1: calling me to tell me that my dad wasn't in

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Speaker 1: the trade center because some days he worked there, not

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Speaker 1: often occasionally, So pick up the phone. My dad is

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Speaker 1: just screaming on the other end. I wasn't there. I

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Speaker 1: wasn't there. I have no idea what's going on. I'm like,

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Speaker 1: what are you talking about? He sort of like half

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Speaker 1: explains what's happening, and then's like, just turn on any

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Speaker 1: radio or TV. So I do, and I get the

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Speaker 1: kind of picture of what's happening. We're sort of not

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Speaker 1: talking at this point. We're on the phone, and suddenly

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Speaker 1: my mother grabs the phone and the first words she says,

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Speaker 1: to be about nine eleven are this is the British

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Speaker 1: is fault. And then she went on a long and

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Speaker 1: absolutely correct monologue about British colonization of the Middle East

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Speaker 1: and the levant and the effects of the oil trade,

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Speaker 1: and and I was like, Mom, you're not wrong, you are,

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Speaker 1: in fact quite right. I do think there are some

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Speaker 1: more um approximate reasons. You know that we had some

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Speaker 1: involved in and she's like, right, all right, totally yeah, yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: But at the end of the day, this is the

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Speaker 1: British's fault. Yeah, my parents can find the fault in

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Speaker 1: England and basically any global event, and they're very rarely

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Speaker 1: wrong about it. You know, if you if you get

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Speaker 1: an empire that the sun doesn't set on some ship,

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Speaker 1: can get fucking blamed on you. And to be fair,

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Speaker 1: I think anyone who like listens to this knows that

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Speaker 1: I'm not like, man, you know what's great is the

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Speaker 1: United States of America. Like, no, it's a colonial monster, um,

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Speaker 1: but like it's just we like to shot on the

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Speaker 1: colonial monster that came before us. Yeah's exactly. Yeah. So

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Speaker 1: Elizabeth she sets up colonial monster things going on, and

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Speaker 1: she gets back to the surrender and re grants plan,

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Speaker 1: which is the give up your titles and then I'll

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Speaker 1: give you back your titles, but they'll be English titles

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Speaker 1: this time, and you could be an earl or whatever

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Speaker 1: the fuck. So this causes a lot of tension because

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Speaker 1: the clan chiefs the land wasn't really there's to make

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Speaker 1: that decision about. It's the whole clan's land, and they're

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Speaker 1: just in charge of it for a hot minute, but

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Speaker 1: some chiefs go for it because people are people and

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Speaker 1: everyone gets real mad at everyone. And the sixteenth century

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Speaker 1: Ireland is even more fighting and warlike than previous Ireland,

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Speaker 1: which is saying something I think, mostly and like the

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Speaker 1: OLDI storty times like this, it's mostly the richer folks

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Speaker 1: who are doing all the warring. The peasants get to

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Speaker 1: kind of stay out of it. I think mostly in

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Speaker 1: yie oldie sort of times like this, it's mostly the

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Speaker 1: richer folks who do the warring. The peasants kind of

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Speaker 1: stay out of it and just find out who owns

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Speaker 1: the land, swapping around and getting slaughtered on the side.

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Speaker 1: But mostly I think it's mostly the British doing the

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Speaker 1: wholesale slaughter of peasants. I'm not as aware of that

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Speaker 1: as being part of the way that war worked prior

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Speaker 1: to all of that, But Ireland doesn't want to be ruled,

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Speaker 1: so it's busy fighting itself. But it also says about

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Speaker 1: fighting the English. There's this guy shamed O'Neil, or just

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Speaker 1: the O'Neill really, and he raises an army. First, he

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Speaker 1: re irished himself. His dad sold out the family name

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Speaker 1: and swore fealty, dropped the oh in his name, and

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Speaker 1: then the dad mysteriously died and the kid inherits it

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Speaker 1: and no history. I be like, Okay, I've only read

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Speaker 1: one history that talks about this. But the history book

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Speaker 1: that like no point is like because he killed his dad,

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Speaker 1: but like, I don't know, it's because he's well, the

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Speaker 1: book doesn't even make the implication, but it seems so

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Speaker 1: obvious to at least have the implication. So he's now

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Speaker 1: the O'Neil because he has inherited from his father and

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Speaker 1: brings it back into Irish brand law, and he adds

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Speaker 1: the ode to his name, and he gets elected the O'Neill,

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Speaker 1: you know, because he's not trying to just take it

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Speaker 1: because his dad had it. He believes in tannistry and

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Speaker 1: all that ship. He might not have killed his dad,

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Speaker 1: I don't know, but he yeah, well, I don't know

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Speaker 1: what dad sells up. I don't give a shit. Uh.

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Speaker 1: He liked to funk around. He married a whole bunch

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Speaker 1: of different people. He kept sleeping with a bunch of

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Speaker 1: other people. It's probably part of the reason that the

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Speaker 1: brand law worked better for him. You know. It was

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Speaker 1: just funny because the Anglican Church, their whole thing was

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Speaker 1: like divorce, but Irish had fucking divorce. Yeah, but it

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Speaker 1: was a divorce that women could initiate. Nobody wants that. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: So he raised armies against the English. He brought over

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Speaker 1: hundred Scottish red shanks. Those are the actually mercenaries from Scotland.

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Speaker 1: He conscripted as peasants, which is like a big bold

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Speaker 1: innovation in forced labor. Uh. He gave them spears and ship.

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Speaker 1: He fought the hell out of English armies. He was invited, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: he was invited to London to negotiate a truce. This

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Speaker 1: is the first time, one of the only two times

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Speaker 1: that Elizabeth, Queen Elizabeth treats with a rebel personally. The

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Speaker 1: other time is actually Grania. We'll get to that later.

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Speaker 1: And they end up when a truce doesn't last all

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Speaker 1: that long. And when he does, when he goes to London,

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Speaker 1: he shows up with a retinue of Gallo Glass, the Scottish,

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Speaker 1: not mercenaries, who were just like the fight he guys

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Speaker 1: truce Lass. Then it ends there's a whole bunch of

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Speaker 1: clan warfare minitary titles. Everything is really confusing. This is

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Speaker 1: my least favorite part about all ye old these sword

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Speaker 1: time things. It's like hereditary bullshit. Eventually it reaches the

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Speaker 1: west coast. It's a minor noblesh guy near Galway. He

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Speaker 1: surrenders and re grants to become the o Flairty, but

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Speaker 1: there already wasn't a though Flairty. I guess he becomes

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Speaker 1: the Flairty, but there already was an o Flairty. And

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Speaker 1: so the successor to the real one was grands husband,

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Speaker 1: Donald of the Battles, who by this point has his

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Speaker 1: nickname upgraded. He has gone from Donald of the Battles

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Speaker 1: to being the cock. Uh m hmmm, we're what did that?

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Speaker 1: You know? I don't want to make any of something

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Speaker 1: about the meanings of words historically say I'm sure this

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Speaker 1: referred to in Badman. He was very good with thee

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Speaker 1: he was. He was named after the rooster because he

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Speaker 1: was good at fighting, and he was arrogant as hill.

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Speaker 1: He took a castle in some fighting, and it got

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Speaker 1: called Cox Castle. So Granny and her husband lived in

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Speaker 1: Cox Castle. I've been to a place called That's very different, though,

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Speaker 1: I think where I would have gone to where we'll

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Speaker 1: get to what it gets The name changed to, so

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Speaker 1: he didn't get to live there very long. All this feuting,

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Speaker 1: he was out hunting and some people he just fucked

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Speaker 1: with found him killed him. He made a lot of

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Speaker 1: enemies during his time as the Cock, and so these

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Speaker 1: people who have killed him to go and try and

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Speaker 1: take retake Cox Castle. But Granta is like, no, I'm

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Speaker 1: I'm I'm good at this. You can't have my castle.

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Speaker 1: It's also a castle. So her and her warriors drove

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Speaker 1: them off and the castle gets renamed thereafter as Hen's Castle.

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Speaker 1: Y and the English I think they're in league with

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Speaker 1: her enemies. At this point, they tried to take Hen's

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Speaker 1: Castle and Grania is like, no, We've been over this.

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Speaker 1: This is my fucking house. This is my like fourth castle,

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Speaker 1: Like you really you're gonna take it from me? And

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Speaker 1: so it's just like hell no, the British are not

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Speaker 1: taking my castle. Legend has it, but biographer Judith Cook

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Speaker 1: thinks it's actually likely or very possible that this actually happened.

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Speaker 1: That she melted down the lead off the roof to

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Speaker 1: drop that ship on the attackers. That said, most of

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Speaker 1: what I've read suggests that the whole like poor boiling

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Speaker 1: oil and stuff on attackers. Thing about medieval castle warfare

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Speaker 1: is largely a myth. Really yeah, it's like overall, like

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Speaker 1: the like infrastructure involved in transporting like large pots of

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00:20:41,760 --> 00:20:44,640
Speaker 1: boiling oil and stuff is like you might as well

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Speaker 1: just have more people dropping rocks and shooting arrows and stuff.

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Speaker 1: It's really disappointing. I have to tell you that you're

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Speaker 1: ruining history for me. I'm sorry, uh, if it makes

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Speaker 1: you feel any better. I got that from YouTube historians,

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Speaker 1: so probably they sat on a throne while they talked

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Speaker 1: about it. I mean, I got it from the American

390
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Speaker 1: education system, so frankly, yours is probably better. Of course,

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Speaker 1: fair enough so. But but before we get into more

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Speaker 1: of it, I do want to talk about what is

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Speaker 1: effective for siege warfare, which is sponsor of the show

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Speaker 1: tribute sches. If you need to throw a really big

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Speaker 1: rock or just any massive object, like a dead elephant,

396
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Speaker 1: don't kill elephants for this purpose, or I will hunt

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Speaker 1: you down personally. But if you need to move one

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Speaker 1: from one place to another and or interfere with a castle,

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00:21:35,600 --> 00:21:39,520
Speaker 1: nothing really gets the job done like tribute shies. Actually,

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Speaker 1: by the time of this story, it's cannons that are better.

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Speaker 1: But tribute ches or what gave me money to say that, you,

402
00:21:46,640 --> 00:21:50,840
Speaker 1: dear listener, should go by a tribute. Don't make your own.

403
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Speaker 1: That would cut out big tributeche out of the picture.

404
00:21:54,760 --> 00:21:57,040
Speaker 1: Really need the marketing budget because candidates have come in

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Speaker 1: I know exactly, and they need your help. Nothing says

406
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Speaker 1: tradition like a sling that is larger than your house.

407
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Speaker 1: I know so many traditional game and then giant slings,

408
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Speaker 1: and then also whatever other ads are about to happen,

409
00:22:24,320 --> 00:22:28,520
Speaker 1: and we are back. So she's defending her castle. Fortunately

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Speaker 1: they didn't have trebys or cannons. I guess, I don't

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Speaker 1: really entirely no, I mean, I guess it'd be like

412
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Speaker 1: overkill because these castles are basically a house, right, Like, No,

413
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Speaker 1: I wouldn't put it past any government to show up

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Speaker 1: at a house with cannon never mind, but I could

415
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Speaker 1: totally see them being like, hence, castle, we don't need

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Speaker 1: a cannon. Take this handed, yeah, which actually happened a

417
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Speaker 1: bunch of times, just in general, when they try and

418
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Speaker 1: funk with Ireland, they're like, those savages are naked in caves,

419
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Speaker 1: and then they like naked in cave savages who probably

420
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Speaker 1: are not naked in caves are like, oh no, don't

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Speaker 1: come into the swamp. There's only two of us, and

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Speaker 1: then there's more, and then they killed them all. She

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00:23:05,640 --> 00:23:09,000
Speaker 1: probably also sent a follower to swim to shore because

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Speaker 1: their hen's castles on an island to light a beacon

425
00:23:11,960 --> 00:23:14,280
Speaker 1: subbody in support from the fucking writers of Rohan, I

426
00:23:14,280 --> 00:23:17,960
Speaker 1: mean other Irish warriors, and they show up and drive

427
00:23:18,000 --> 00:23:22,119
Speaker 1: off the forces of more Door sorry English. And because

428
00:23:22,280 --> 00:23:25,400
Speaker 1: the English at this point are putting to the sword

429
00:23:25,680 --> 00:23:28,359
Speaker 1: all the rep anyone who rebels against the authority, which

430
00:23:28,920 --> 00:23:31,119
Speaker 1: isn't actually just a Game of Thrones thing. They actually

431
00:23:31,119 --> 00:23:33,879
Speaker 1: just went around and murdered everybody. They just put everyone

432
00:23:33,880 --> 00:23:36,560
Speaker 1: to the sword. Uh. It wasn't just rebels, it was

433
00:23:36,640 --> 00:23:41,480
Speaker 1: like non fighting people, women and children. Yeah, well everyone

434
00:23:42,040 --> 00:23:45,440
Speaker 1: everyone kills monks. Um No, actually I guess specifically the

435
00:23:45,440 --> 00:23:51,480
Speaker 1: English because they could actually wear male or plate armor, yeah,

436
00:23:51,680 --> 00:23:57,640
Speaker 1: or up their deck stot honestly. But yeah, and so

437
00:23:58,560 --> 00:24:01,920
Speaker 1: and everywhere that they've conquered, English have conquered become even

438
00:24:01,960 --> 00:24:04,280
Speaker 1: more corrupt and fucked up than all the weird fifth

439
00:24:05,000 --> 00:24:07,560
Speaker 1: Like Ireland wasn't doing great, right, I mean like it

440
00:24:07,600 --> 00:24:10,440
Speaker 1: was like doing interesting right, They were doing their own thing,

441
00:24:10,920 --> 00:24:13,640
Speaker 1: but the English absolutely make all of it worse by

442
00:24:13,680 --> 00:24:18,000
Speaker 1: an order of magnitude. But a second dark forces at

443
00:24:18,000 --> 00:24:20,440
Speaker 1: work to conspire to keep her from keeping Hen's Castle.

444
00:24:20,480 --> 00:24:22,560
Speaker 1: Even though she's driven away the British, and she's driven

445
00:24:22,600 --> 00:24:25,720
Speaker 1: away the people who probably her husband stole it from Ben.

446
00:24:25,800 --> 00:24:33,679
Speaker 1: She's no close patriarchy hm. Under Irish law, women can

447
00:24:33,800 --> 00:24:38,320
Speaker 1: inherit from their husbands, so it's not her castle. So

448
00:24:38,359 --> 00:24:40,040
Speaker 1: she has to pack her bags and go back to

449
00:24:40,080 --> 00:24:43,520
Speaker 1: her parents, and she's entitled only to the return of

450
00:24:43,520 --> 00:24:45,560
Speaker 1: her dowry that have been paid to Donald the Cock.

451
00:24:46,520 --> 00:24:50,359
Speaker 1: But most of her retinue was like, are you fucking kidding?

452
00:24:50,400 --> 00:24:53,960
Speaker 1: We're sticking with you. You're kicking ass you rule, And

453
00:24:54,040 --> 00:24:56,280
Speaker 1: so most of the Irish warriors in the Scottish gallow

454
00:24:56,320 --> 00:24:59,920
Speaker 1: Glass came with her back to her like moving in back,

455
00:25:00,240 --> 00:25:01,879
Speaker 1: moved back in with her parents. And so if you

456
00:25:01,960 --> 00:25:04,119
Speaker 1: at home, I had to move back to your parents

457
00:25:04,119 --> 00:25:05,720
Speaker 1: after what felt like a high point in your career,

458
00:25:06,080 --> 00:25:08,760
Speaker 1: you are not alone. The pirate Queen of Ireland had

459
00:25:08,760 --> 00:25:11,760
Speaker 1: to move back home. If you've lost your castle, now

460
00:25:11,760 --> 00:25:15,800
Speaker 1: you're living in your dad's castle. Well, fortunately, actually she's

461
00:25:15,840 --> 00:25:21,000
Speaker 1: living in her dad's other castle, vacation castle. Yeah yeah,

462
00:25:21,880 --> 00:25:25,960
Speaker 1: make that joke later in the script. Damn it no great.

463
00:25:27,320 --> 00:25:29,560
Speaker 1: So their parents are fucking rich as hell, and so

464
00:25:29,680 --> 00:25:32,760
Speaker 1: they're living in Belclaire Castle, the parents on the mainland,

465
00:25:32,800 --> 00:25:34,439
Speaker 1: and she's like, all right, well, can I have Claire

466
00:25:34,640 --> 00:25:38,360
Speaker 1: Island Castle and just keep robbing people? And they're like yeah, sure, Haun,

467
00:25:38,480 --> 00:25:42,160
Speaker 1: whatever makes you happy, and you start your little business,

468
00:25:42,400 --> 00:25:47,560
Speaker 1: yeah Etsy store. And within a few years she runs

469
00:25:47,600 --> 00:25:50,920
Speaker 1: shipping on the entire west coast of Ireland. And I

470
00:25:51,080 --> 00:25:53,359
Speaker 1: ran shipping. Of course, we mean tax anyone who wanted

471
00:25:53,359 --> 00:25:55,200
Speaker 1: to sail there and killed them if they refused to

472
00:25:55,240 --> 00:25:59,560
Speaker 1: play that pay that tax, which is capitalism. It's also

473
00:25:59,680 --> 00:26:02,359
Speaker 1: just kind where government comes from. If you think about it,

474
00:26:02,520 --> 00:26:06,560
Speaker 1: like it's we we folk hero this kind of banditry

475
00:26:06,800 --> 00:26:09,280
Speaker 1: until it becomes big enough, and then it's theo radical government.

476
00:26:09,600 --> 00:26:11,240
Speaker 1: Or if you're the opposite kind of person is me,

477
00:26:11,359 --> 00:26:13,560
Speaker 1: you go the other way, decry its banditry until it

478
00:26:13,600 --> 00:26:18,160
Speaker 1: becomes legitimate government. Sometimes it's also religion, though that's true.

479
00:26:18,600 --> 00:26:23,760
Speaker 1: That's true. Power structures almost like power structures have some

480
00:26:23,800 --> 00:26:29,360
Speaker 1: fundamental flaws. What I don't know that I wouldn't now

481
00:26:29,560 --> 00:26:32,119
Speaker 1: probably not, probably not. We just we should just find

482
00:26:32,200 --> 00:26:34,520
Speaker 1: the power structure that we like versus the other power

483
00:26:34,600 --> 00:26:36,399
Speaker 1: structure that we don't like, and then support it and

484
00:26:36,440 --> 00:26:40,199
Speaker 1: then get used as a pawn and then die, which is,

485
00:26:40,240 --> 00:26:41,760
Speaker 1: to be fair, a lot of what's going to happen

486
00:26:41,800 --> 00:26:44,040
Speaker 1: in this story with my restensible heroes, that she's going

487
00:26:44,080 --> 00:26:49,800
Speaker 1: to do that to people. But once again, there's actually

488
00:26:49,840 --> 00:26:52,080
Speaker 1: some value added to her. Running shipping on the west

489
00:26:52,119 --> 00:26:55,920
Speaker 1: coast of Ireland. Local pilots navigating you along the coast

490
00:26:55,960 --> 00:26:58,280
Speaker 1: is pretty valuable on this place where everyone keeps crashing

491
00:26:58,280 --> 00:27:03,040
Speaker 1: and dying, and she's knocking down castles with cannons, she's

492
00:27:03,080 --> 00:27:06,560
Speaker 1: storming islands. She's just conquering land into her family's domain,

493
00:27:06,720 --> 00:27:10,800
Speaker 1: even though like she doesn't legally get it, you know,

494
00:27:11,640 --> 00:27:16,560
Speaker 1: like yeah, it goes to her parents. I think, who

495
00:27:16,560 --> 00:27:19,359
Speaker 1: are the representatives of the clan at this point, And

496
00:27:19,400 --> 00:27:22,240
Speaker 1: this operation involves hundreds of men at her at her command.

497
00:27:22,280 --> 00:27:25,040
Speaker 1: She has thirty ships, and she gets the title of

498
00:27:25,119 --> 00:27:28,679
Speaker 1: pirate queen and she's not even regnant over any area.

499
00:27:28,800 --> 00:27:31,320
Speaker 1: Not only does Irish law prohibit women from official positions

500
00:27:31,320 --> 00:27:33,320
Speaker 1: of power, but her dad and mom are still alive

501
00:27:33,400 --> 00:27:35,439
Speaker 1: and she's still the fucking pirate queen, which is just

502
00:27:36,359 --> 00:27:40,960
Speaker 1: it's impressive. Like again, not a thing that I'm like,

503
00:27:41,000 --> 00:27:43,520
Speaker 1: everyone should do this. This is a good thing, right,

504
00:27:44,119 --> 00:27:49,720
Speaker 1: but it is a fucking impressive feat And then this

505
00:27:49,800 --> 00:27:52,920
Speaker 1: part might be legend, but it who knows. She finds

506
00:27:52,920 --> 00:27:56,600
Speaker 1: a shipwrecked hot dude from a foreign country and she's like, yo,

507
00:27:56,640 --> 00:28:00,800
Speaker 1: what's up? And they become lovers. Is this a romance novel?

508
00:28:01,480 --> 00:28:06,480
Speaker 1: I feel like before Yeah, and she just like kind

509
00:28:06,520 --> 00:28:08,320
Speaker 1: of like takes a break for a little while. I

510
00:28:08,359 --> 00:28:10,240
Speaker 1: think it's like a couple of months or something, and

511
00:28:10,320 --> 00:28:12,560
Speaker 1: just as like kind of honeymoon phase with her, like

512
00:28:12,640 --> 00:28:16,840
Speaker 1: new Boo that washed up there. You're like, I am

513
00:28:16,920 --> 00:28:20,600
Speaker 1: so overwhelmed from invading and conquering. I just need like

514
00:28:21,320 --> 00:28:27,280
Speaker 1: three months to like Netflix and chill in my castle. Yeah, exactly. Unfortunately,

515
00:28:27,280 --> 00:28:29,760
Speaker 1: it's dangerous to be her lover because he's out hunting

516
00:28:29,840 --> 00:28:34,639
Speaker 1: one day and arrival clan the mcmahans kill him. So

517
00:28:34,720 --> 00:28:38,280
Speaker 1: if you're ever fucking grand Wallya, just don't go hunting anymore.

518
00:28:38,520 --> 00:28:41,959
Speaker 1: It's not worth it. Just go with her. She'll protect you.

519
00:28:42,120 --> 00:28:44,200
Speaker 1: That's true. She heard of the ship out of anything,

520
00:28:44,320 --> 00:28:45,720
Speaker 1: but it'd be like really annoying because he'd be like,

521
00:28:45,800 --> 00:28:47,680
Speaker 1: I got this deer and then she'd be like, whoops,

522
00:28:47,680 --> 00:28:51,000
Speaker 1: I killed the deer and all the men who are

523
00:28:51,080 --> 00:28:54,480
Speaker 1: hunting you I know, yeah totally. Or you'd be like,

524
00:28:55,080 --> 00:28:56,880
Speaker 1: doesn't even like tell you that she's killed all the

525
00:28:56,880 --> 00:28:59,360
Speaker 1: people who are like trying to assassinate you, and you're like, look,

526
00:28:59,400 --> 00:29:01,840
Speaker 1: I killed a deer, and you're like, that's nice, honey.

527
00:29:01,960 --> 00:29:05,360
Speaker 1: It's like like three days, let's go home. Just step

528
00:29:05,400 --> 00:29:12,080
Speaker 1: over that dead guy. Yeah. So she doesn't like the

529
00:29:12,760 --> 00:29:14,560
Speaker 1: She doesn't like when her hot ship wreck guys get

530
00:29:14,640 --> 00:29:18,600
Speaker 1: murdered uh and the McMahon's. She waits for them to

531
00:29:18,600 --> 00:29:21,000
Speaker 1: go on pilgrimage to an island. She shows up, she

532
00:29:21,040 --> 00:29:23,160
Speaker 1: captures all their boats, she gets onto the island, she

533
00:29:23,240 --> 00:29:25,640
Speaker 1: kills everyone and killed her hot ship wreck guy. Then

534
00:29:26,000 --> 00:29:28,920
Speaker 1: she sails back to the mainland, storms their castle and

535
00:29:28,960 --> 00:29:33,959
Speaker 1: takes it. Don't funk with the pirate Queen, who now

536
00:29:34,000 --> 00:29:37,240
Speaker 1: gets a new nickname, the Dark Lady of Douna. Douna

537
00:29:37,320 --> 00:29:41,480
Speaker 1: is where this is taking place. The Dark Lady. I

538
00:29:41,560 --> 00:29:44,360
Speaker 1: know that's a share song, isn't it. It's also the

539
00:29:44,440 --> 00:29:46,680
Speaker 1: name of the romance novel that I'm gonna write based

540
00:29:46,720 --> 00:29:51,040
Speaker 1: on all of this. She was also Grana of the

541
00:29:51,080 --> 00:29:54,240
Speaker 1: Gamblers as a new nickname, because she liked to gamble,

542
00:29:54,320 --> 00:29:56,040
Speaker 1: both in terms of playing games and in terms of

543
00:29:56,080 --> 00:29:58,880
Speaker 1: taking big risks and everywhere she would go apparently like

544
00:29:59,360 --> 00:30:01,719
Speaker 1: she also did like legitimate merchant deals. She would like

545
00:30:01,760 --> 00:30:05,920
Speaker 1: a like all over the sort of known world at

546
00:30:05,920 --> 00:30:07,960
Speaker 1: the time, down to the Mediterranean and stuff like that,

547
00:30:08,480 --> 00:30:10,719
Speaker 1: and she would just like bring gamblers with her. I

548
00:30:10,760 --> 00:30:14,400
Speaker 1: think in like an alternate history she ends up as

549
00:30:14,440 --> 00:30:16,760
Speaker 1: Saint the patron Saint of Gambler. It's like you can

550
00:30:16,840 --> 00:30:18,680
Speaker 1: totally see the Catholic Church being like, no, no no, just

551
00:30:18,680 --> 00:30:25,440
Speaker 1: take her totally totally. So she gets married again and

552
00:30:26,760 --> 00:30:30,000
Speaker 1: again all the like weird clan feuding stuff sort of.

553
00:30:30,880 --> 00:30:32,160
Speaker 1: I don't like things where I have to look at

554
00:30:32,200 --> 00:30:34,680
Speaker 1: a family tree to figure everything out. But she marries

555
00:30:34,760 --> 00:30:39,440
Speaker 1: this guy who I think her brother, her sorry, whose

556
00:30:39,480 --> 00:30:42,800
Speaker 1: brother her dead husband had murdered. That's for it makes

557
00:30:42,800 --> 00:30:47,400
Speaker 1: for a complicated family reunion, right, But her and him

558
00:30:47,440 --> 00:30:51,200
Speaker 1: have a lot in common. His name's Iron Richard because

559
00:30:51,200 --> 00:30:54,760
Speaker 1: he never takes off his armor and he loves fighting

560
00:30:54,800 --> 00:31:00,000
Speaker 1: and rebellion. She's got a tight dick, at least for marriage. Yeah,

561
00:31:00,120 --> 00:31:03,200
Speaker 1: here's where cock. I'm just sort of noticing some trends

562
00:31:03,200 --> 00:31:05,880
Speaker 1: to the names of the men she's been with. Iron Dick.

563
00:31:06,360 --> 00:31:09,920
Speaker 1: The cock did the hot like pirate dude have a

564
00:31:10,080 --> 00:31:15,360
Speaker 1: he didn't have Yeah, he didn't have a name. He's

565
00:31:15,400 --> 00:31:18,840
Speaker 1: just a shipwrecked guy who dies right away. Because she's

566
00:31:18,880 --> 00:31:24,240
Speaker 1: going through life plane funck mary Kill and winning. Yeah,

567
00:31:24,400 --> 00:31:27,440
Speaker 1: and she's winning at the game fun mary Kill. That's

568
00:31:27,480 --> 00:31:29,440
Speaker 1: what's impressive. No one else knew that there was a

569
00:31:29,440 --> 00:31:34,080
Speaker 1: win condition. So she marries Iron Richard. He's got a

570
00:31:34,080 --> 00:31:36,560
Speaker 1: claim on some power to he's also an elected air

571
00:31:36,680 --> 00:31:39,520
Speaker 1: he's a Tannis of I think maybe almost all of

572
00:31:39,560 --> 00:31:42,560
Speaker 1: County Mayo. But the ship gets really tangled. And that

573
00:31:42,680 --> 00:31:46,440
Speaker 1: good Catholic country Ireland, which totally obeys the Church's laws

574
00:31:46,440 --> 00:31:50,840
Speaker 1: and stuff. They have a traditional sort of secular marriage

575
00:31:51,560 --> 00:31:53,640
Speaker 1: or trial marriage, which is legal at the time and

576
00:31:53,680 --> 00:31:56,440
Speaker 1: would be for another fifty years, where you can get

577
00:31:56,480 --> 00:31:58,400
Speaker 1: married for a year and a day and if either

578
00:31:58,440 --> 00:32:00,720
Speaker 1: party doesn't like it, you just call the whole thing off.

579
00:32:01,600 --> 00:32:04,760
Speaker 1: So they got secular married. He lives in one of

580
00:32:04,760 --> 00:32:07,280
Speaker 1: his castles and she sets up shopping his his vacation

581
00:32:07,320 --> 00:32:11,080
Speaker 1: castle to continue to run an operation. I just think

582
00:32:11,120 --> 00:32:13,520
Speaker 1: that's so smart. Like, I think we don't have enough

583
00:32:13,600 --> 00:32:16,400
Speaker 1: rituals for like the dissolving of things, the ending of

584
00:32:16,480 --> 00:32:18,560
Speaker 1: things that we all we come up with all these

585
00:32:18,600 --> 00:32:21,040
Speaker 1: rituals for beginnings, you know, and I'm like, a year

586
00:32:21,080 --> 00:32:23,480
Speaker 1: and a day, everybody knows it. And then you know,

587
00:32:23,480 --> 00:32:26,960
Speaker 1: three and sixty six days later, you're like, we changed

588
00:32:26,960 --> 00:32:30,160
Speaker 1: our mind, and everyone's like, okay, cool, yeah they honestly

589
00:32:30,200 --> 00:32:38,080
Speaker 1: marriage should have that built in. Um. Yeah, And now

590
00:32:38,120 --> 00:32:41,360
Speaker 1: I'm just thinking about that. That's like like, yeah, so

591
00:32:42,480 --> 00:32:44,680
Speaker 1: she might have then, Okay. So there's all these legends

592
00:32:44,720 --> 00:32:46,280
Speaker 1: about all of this, right, and so one of the

593
00:32:46,360 --> 00:32:49,760
Speaker 1: legends is that she like her husband's like off at

594
00:32:49,760 --> 00:32:51,360
Speaker 1: war and he like comes home like on like the

595
00:32:52,440 --> 00:32:55,480
Speaker 1: day and she's like, now, you can't come in, it's

596
00:32:55,560 --> 00:32:59,840
Speaker 1: my house now. But if that happened, she then gets

597
00:33:00,000 --> 00:33:02,400
Speaker 1: back with him. And I actually wouldn't put it past

598
00:33:02,440 --> 00:33:04,800
Speaker 1: her to sort of like flex some power and be like,

599
00:33:05,120 --> 00:33:07,239
Speaker 1: you know, I can leave you and I'm the one

600
00:33:07,280 --> 00:33:11,760
Speaker 1: who runs things around here, right, But she does also

601
00:33:11,800 --> 00:33:13,960
Speaker 1: seem to like him, and I think, once again, it's

602
00:33:14,000 --> 00:33:15,680
Speaker 1: just one of these things where she's like, she's gotta

603
00:33:15,720 --> 00:33:20,520
Speaker 1: type he's he likes to fight, and probably fucking she

604
00:33:20,560 --> 00:33:23,800
Speaker 1: has one of his kids. She she might have given

605
00:33:23,840 --> 00:33:27,200
Speaker 1: birth on the ocean. This part not entirely certain, and

606
00:33:27,240 --> 00:33:30,160
Speaker 1: then the legend of her says that while she was

607
00:33:30,200 --> 00:33:33,720
Speaker 1: pregnant during this marriage, she's in her mid thirties, she's

608
00:33:33,800 --> 00:33:36,320
Speaker 1: captains a trading vessel down to the Mediterranean. This part

609
00:33:36,360 --> 00:33:39,920
Speaker 1: almost certainly happened, and they were boarded by you know, pirates,

610
00:33:40,920 --> 00:33:43,160
Speaker 1: and she's like, way the funk pregnant, and she starts off.

611
00:33:43,200 --> 00:33:45,720
Speaker 1: In the legend version, she's like, could you all do

612
00:33:45,760 --> 00:33:48,880
Speaker 1: this one thing without me? And everyone's like no, we're

613
00:33:48,920 --> 00:33:52,000
Speaker 1: being rated, and she's like, I'm so pregnant and they're

614
00:33:52,000 --> 00:33:54,080
Speaker 1: like no, but they're going to kill us all. And

615
00:33:54,160 --> 00:33:56,360
Speaker 1: so she like walks up on deck like eight or

616
00:33:56,400 --> 00:33:59,400
Speaker 1: nine months pregnant with a blunderbuss in each hand and

617
00:33:59,480 --> 00:34:03,800
Speaker 1: just like can like drives off the attackers. Yes, I

618
00:34:03,840 --> 00:34:05,800
Speaker 1: think if you become king of the land, you need

619
00:34:05,840 --> 00:34:08,240
Speaker 1: to funk a horse. Then to become the pirate queen,

620
00:34:08,280 --> 00:34:10,080
Speaker 1: you need to give birth on the ocean. Like that

621
00:34:10,120 --> 00:34:12,880
Speaker 1: should just be established as the ritual. Okay, no that

622
00:34:13,040 --> 00:34:16,560
Speaker 1: that that works for me. And not too later she

623
00:34:16,680 --> 00:34:18,960
Speaker 1: has her fourth and final kid, whose name is Tibbott

624
00:34:19,040 --> 00:34:21,200
Speaker 1: and he has a storied life too, and it's possible

625
00:34:21,239 --> 00:34:24,880
Speaker 1: that she gave birth to him on the ocean. Meanwhile,

626
00:34:25,440 --> 00:34:28,000
Speaker 1: the guy who's above her dad, this again, the whole

627
00:34:28,040 --> 00:34:31,719
Speaker 1: fucking hereditary blah blah blah like kind of if you're

628
00:34:31,719 --> 00:34:34,040
Speaker 1: listening to this, don't use this as you're like a

629
00:34:34,080 --> 00:34:36,799
Speaker 1: little fill out the family tree thing. That's what you

630
00:34:36,840 --> 00:34:38,319
Speaker 1: have when you hire a fiction writer to run a

631
00:34:38,360 --> 00:34:42,200
Speaker 1: podcast about history. I mean, I'm not lying about anything.

632
00:34:42,200 --> 00:34:43,640
Speaker 1: And what I'm not lying about is that I can

633
00:34:43,760 --> 00:34:45,839
Speaker 1: understand some of this fucking ship. I don't care about

634
00:34:46,480 --> 00:34:49,839
Speaker 1: who's in charge of what. Meanwhile, the guy's above her dad,

635
00:34:49,880 --> 00:34:51,920
Speaker 1: he gives into English rule. He goes for the surrender

636
00:34:51,960 --> 00:34:54,640
Speaker 1: and regrant his backs against the wall. It probably wasn't

637
00:34:54,640 --> 00:34:56,759
Speaker 1: an easy decision. And this is the guy her husband is,

638
00:34:56,800 --> 00:34:59,799
Speaker 1: the heir of the English didn't and they would do

639
00:35:00,040 --> 00:35:02,200
Speaker 1: it like basically, they just I mean, this is what

640
00:35:02,239 --> 00:35:04,600
Speaker 1: they did. Later all over the fucking world. They show

641
00:35:04,680 --> 00:35:06,279
Speaker 1: up and they look at County Mayo and they're like, oh,

642
00:35:06,360 --> 00:35:09,680
Speaker 1: let's divide into tens wrong, drunk drunk, drunk, drunk, you know.

643
00:35:10,520 --> 00:35:13,000
Speaker 1: And and this turns all the clans against each other,

644
00:35:13,080 --> 00:35:15,000
Speaker 1: because of course it does, because you're giving people a

645
00:35:15,080 --> 00:35:16,719
Speaker 1: chance at power. But it's all a fucking game, and

646
00:35:16,719 --> 00:35:19,240
Speaker 1: they're just whatever, I'm really mad about all this stuff.

647
00:35:20,360 --> 00:35:23,160
Speaker 1: So the guy gives in surrenders and regrants, and now

648
00:35:23,239 --> 00:35:24,800
Speaker 1: he has to pay tax, and he has to provide

649
00:35:24,840 --> 00:35:27,040
Speaker 1: fighting men to the English fucking queen, and he has

650
00:35:27,080 --> 00:35:30,160
Speaker 1: to expel the Scots from the territory. But the Irish

651
00:35:30,239 --> 00:35:35,239
Speaker 1: like having the Scots around. They're really good at fighting. Yeah,

652
00:35:35,280 --> 00:35:38,160
Speaker 1: the Gala glass, Yeah, Granna. In the meantime, she keeps

653
00:35:38,160 --> 00:35:40,440
Speaker 1: pirating and running the shipping off the west coast of Ireland,

654
00:35:41,680 --> 00:35:46,360
Speaker 1: and then maybe she becomes a spy for the British.

655
00:35:46,800 --> 00:35:52,319
Speaker 1: It's really hard to know. The evidence. Evidence leans towards like, yeah,

656
00:35:52,920 --> 00:35:59,920
Speaker 1: maybe probably if she was, it was a messy arrangement

657
00:36:00,040 --> 00:36:04,600
Speaker 1: because she keeps fighting English people all the time. She's like,

658
00:36:04,600 --> 00:36:06,120
Speaker 1: I gotta keep up my cover story. I have to

659
00:36:06,200 --> 00:36:08,920
Speaker 1: kill at least five of you a year. Yeah, yeah, totally.

660
00:36:09,400 --> 00:36:11,120
Speaker 1: It's possible that she was a double or triple or

661
00:36:11,160 --> 00:36:13,600
Speaker 1: quadruple agent. It's also possible that she was just keeping

662
00:36:13,640 --> 00:36:16,080
Speaker 1: up a cover story by continuing to throw down in rebellions.

663
00:36:16,480 --> 00:36:18,200
Speaker 1: So there's a case that could be made that Grania

664
00:36:18,320 --> 00:36:20,479
Speaker 1: was either a spy for the British, a patriotic Irish

665
00:36:20,520 --> 00:36:23,040
Speaker 1: woman who supported tons of rebels, or just a really

666
00:36:23,040 --> 00:36:25,160
Speaker 1: powerful mom looking out for her family and her crime

667
00:36:25,160 --> 00:36:28,040
Speaker 1: empire through whatever means. We're convenient, And I think that

668
00:36:28,080 --> 00:36:31,000
Speaker 1: actually feels like the truest story I've ever heard about

669
00:36:31,040 --> 00:36:34,160
Speaker 1: an Irish woman. Yeah, I think it was all three,

670
00:36:34,280 --> 00:36:36,239
Speaker 1: but I think it was the last one and the

671
00:36:37,200 --> 00:36:40,360
Speaker 1: other two. I could feel that my mother on the

672
00:36:40,440 --> 00:36:43,400
Speaker 1: day I left home for college, the last words she

673
00:36:43,480 --> 00:36:48,640
Speaker 1: said to me were, don't join any gangs because you're

674
00:36:48,719 --> 00:36:54,479
Speaker 1: already in one, meaning being Irish, being my family. Because

675
00:36:54,480 --> 00:36:58,600
Speaker 1: she then clarified further, she was like, but especially, do

676
00:36:58,840 --> 00:37:02,800
Speaker 1: not join the Catholics, because we got out of that once.

677
00:37:03,960 --> 00:37:08,000
Speaker 1: Do not join the Unitarian Universe less because they don't

678
00:37:08,000 --> 00:37:10,640
Speaker 1: believe in anything. And if you're gonna fall for a cult,

679
00:37:10,760 --> 00:37:15,120
Speaker 1: at least have something. These are my mother's last words

680
00:37:15,120 --> 00:37:16,680
Speaker 1: before I went off to college. I've always thought they

681
00:37:16,680 --> 00:37:20,000
Speaker 1: were pretty helpful. Actually, yeah, no, it's a reasonable advice.

682
00:37:20,520 --> 00:37:23,400
Speaker 1: So the evidence that she's a spy kind of builds

683
00:37:23,440 --> 00:37:25,080
Speaker 1: more later in her life. But the evidence at this

684
00:37:25,120 --> 00:37:27,560
Speaker 1: point is that basically she gets away with running the

685
00:37:27,719 --> 00:37:30,279
Speaker 1: entire shipping on the West coast of Ireland. But I

686
00:37:30,800 --> 00:37:34,680
Speaker 1: actually think, frankly, the other the reason that this is

687
00:37:34,719 --> 00:37:37,040
Speaker 1: presented as to why it might have happened, which is

688
00:37:37,280 --> 00:37:40,560
Speaker 1: she's too fearsome to stop, is just as likely, if

689
00:37:40,560 --> 00:37:43,880
Speaker 1: not more likely. But her and Iron Richard do go

690
00:37:43,960 --> 00:37:49,880
Speaker 1: to London at some point for unknown purposes, well honeymoon. Yeah. Meanwhile,

691
00:37:50,160 --> 00:37:52,680
Speaker 1: the West coast of Ireland, probably all of Ireland didn't

692
00:37:52,680 --> 00:37:54,480
Speaker 1: really want to become England. It's probably the fourth or

693
00:37:54,520 --> 00:37:56,360
Speaker 1: fifth time I've said that, but it continues to be

694
00:37:56,440 --> 00:38:01,360
Speaker 1: true today. And they were fighting again, keep saying, so

695
00:38:01,400 --> 00:38:06,960
Speaker 1: they fought and she she according to reports and rebellions

696
00:38:06,960 --> 00:38:08,839
Speaker 1: at the time, she was for forty years the stay

697
00:38:08,880 --> 00:38:12,360
Speaker 1: of all rebellions in the West, but not yet she

698
00:38:12,440 --> 00:38:16,880
Speaker 1: wants to stay out of it and rob people in

699
00:38:16,880 --> 00:38:19,640
Speaker 1: In her late forties, she finally gets caught for the

700
00:38:19,719 --> 00:38:23,960
Speaker 1: piracy thing. The Earl of Desmond, down in the southern

701
00:38:24,040 --> 00:38:26,000
Speaker 1: part of the country grabs her while she's trying to

702
00:38:26,040 --> 00:38:30,560
Speaker 1: like do a piracy and he was, let's go with

703
00:38:30,680 --> 00:38:34,000
Speaker 1: not incredibly loyal to the throne, and the Queen knows it,

704
00:38:34,360 --> 00:38:37,080
Speaker 1: so he's like, how better to put on a front

705
00:38:37,160 --> 00:38:41,839
Speaker 1: that I am loyal than to capture queen pirate gran

706
00:38:43,400 --> 00:38:46,640
Speaker 1: and Grant spents eighteen months in his jails in Southern

707
00:38:46,719 --> 00:38:48,840
Speaker 1: Ireland and then his transferred to Dublin Castle, which is

708
00:38:48,840 --> 00:38:51,560
Speaker 1: the Irish equivalent of the Tower of London at the time,

709
00:38:52,040 --> 00:38:54,400
Speaker 1: and it's like the place for star prisoners, most of

710
00:38:54,440 --> 00:38:59,680
Speaker 1: whom leave by being hanged. And then suddenly she's released

711
00:38:59,719 --> 00:39:05,560
Speaker 1: without arch and we straight up don't know why that's suspicious.

712
00:39:07,200 --> 00:39:09,760
Speaker 1: It's possible that Queen was like, fuck you, she's my spy,

713
00:39:09,880 --> 00:39:12,600
Speaker 1: let her go. It's also possible that the Earl of Desmond,

714
00:39:12,640 --> 00:39:15,160
Speaker 1: who was trying to do a rebellion, decided that her

715
00:39:15,200 --> 00:39:17,720
Speaker 1: being a pirate who supported rebellions was a better purpose

716
00:39:17,760 --> 00:39:21,120
Speaker 1: for her than like, because she'd already been more useful

717
00:39:21,160 --> 00:39:24,120
Speaker 1: to him. Yeah, she'd already kind of he'd already kind

718
00:39:24,120 --> 00:39:26,799
Speaker 1: of like proven he was loyal by capturing her, so

719
00:39:26,840 --> 00:39:28,520
Speaker 1: now he may be set her free in order to

720
00:39:28,560 --> 00:39:31,120
Speaker 1: like have her be a useful pond and a continued

721
00:39:31,160 --> 00:39:34,399
Speaker 1: rebellion or whatever. I don't know. I mean, it's also

722
00:39:34,520 --> 00:39:37,520
Speaker 1: possible that basically they let her go in order to

723
00:39:37,520 --> 00:39:39,080
Speaker 1: like set her up to look like a spy. I

724
00:39:39,080 --> 00:39:42,480
Speaker 1: don't know, but that's I think the most likely is

725
00:39:42,480 --> 00:39:43,719
Speaker 1: that she was a spy and that's why she was

726
00:39:43,840 --> 00:39:46,520
Speaker 1: let go. But the other one has some something possible.

727
00:39:47,600 --> 00:39:50,640
Speaker 1: But as soon as she gets back, the English tried

728
00:39:50,680 --> 00:39:54,840
Speaker 1: to steal her castle. This has not worked out for anyone,

729
00:39:54,960 --> 00:39:58,759
Speaker 1: have they not learned? I know? Eighteen days later she

730
00:39:58,880 --> 00:40:05,600
Speaker 1: drives them off um and imprisoning Granna turned out to

731
00:40:05,600 --> 00:40:08,000
Speaker 1: be a mistake for the Earl of Desmond, because shortly

732
00:40:08,160 --> 00:40:12,200
Speaker 1: thereafter he's leading a rebellion. Honestly, almost by mistake. I

733
00:40:12,200 --> 00:40:13,880
Speaker 1: think he was just trying to stay out of some

734
00:40:13,920 --> 00:40:17,560
Speaker 1: ship that involved like Spain and Rome, where they were like,

735
00:40:17,600 --> 00:40:19,640
Speaker 1: because Spain this whole time is like, we're gonna fucking

736
00:40:19,640 --> 00:40:22,480
Speaker 1: take England soon, and they're like eyeing Ireland is the

737
00:40:22,520 --> 00:40:24,800
Speaker 1: place to start, and a lot of the Irish rebels

738
00:40:24,800 --> 00:40:29,680
Speaker 1: are like, fucking sure, whatever whatever it takes. Men, have

739
00:40:29,760 --> 00:40:32,399
Speaker 1: you come here and beat up the English? Fucking God

740
00:40:32,400 --> 00:40:37,040
Speaker 1: bless you. We're all Catholics here, and which is why

741
00:40:37,160 --> 00:40:39,200
Speaker 1: Rome was involved. Also the pope was part of all

742
00:40:39,200 --> 00:40:41,560
Speaker 1: this ship. But so like he gets implicated and all

743
00:40:41,600 --> 00:40:43,879
Speaker 1: this plotting and he gets called a trader. So he's like, well,

744
00:40:43,880 --> 00:40:45,719
Speaker 1: I guess I'm a trader now. So he becomes a

745
00:40:45,760 --> 00:40:48,960
Speaker 1: rebel and he rebels, and he asked County Mayo and

746
00:40:49,000 --> 00:40:53,600
Speaker 1: Granny in particular for help. Iron Richard, her husband agrees,

747
00:40:53,640 --> 00:40:56,359
Speaker 1: and he marches off. Granny is like, no, but you're

748
00:40:56,360 --> 00:40:57,719
Speaker 1: on your own on this one. You kept me in

749
00:40:57,719 --> 00:41:01,719
Speaker 1: a fucking cage for two years or I'm loyal to

750
00:41:01,719 --> 00:41:03,799
Speaker 1: the English queen in a spy, but I don't know.

751
00:41:03,920 --> 00:41:07,880
Speaker 1: She just drove off the fucking whatever. She stays out

752
00:41:07,920 --> 00:41:12,920
Speaker 1: of it. I know, I was like, I kind of

753
00:41:13,000 --> 00:41:14,960
Speaker 1: enjoyed these episodes. I start off with this like sort

754
00:41:14,960 --> 00:41:17,239
Speaker 1: of simplistic narrative in my head when I have you know,

755
00:41:17,320 --> 00:41:19,560
Speaker 1: like the Wikipedia version of this, well not literally the

756
00:41:19,560 --> 00:41:21,640
Speaker 1: Wikipedia version of this, the Wikipedia version of this is

757
00:41:21,960 --> 00:41:26,600
Speaker 1: impossibly dense, but the like the like cliffs Notes version

758
00:41:26,640 --> 00:41:29,880
Speaker 1: of all this is like fun Irish pirate lady Ho

759
00:41:29,880 --> 00:41:34,480
Speaker 1: Ho Ho pirates life for me. And then like you're like, na,

760
00:41:34,560 --> 00:41:38,280
Speaker 1: she's just messy. She's like she's on my my podcast.

761
00:41:38,360 --> 00:41:40,880
Speaker 1: Cool people, did cool stuff, but in a less heroic

762
00:41:40,920 --> 00:41:44,960
Speaker 1: way than usual messy people who did messy. Yeah, interesting

763
00:41:44,960 --> 00:41:49,359
Speaker 1: people did interesting stuff. Or we'll get to it. We'll

764
00:41:49,400 --> 00:41:52,080
Speaker 1: get to it. There's some interesting ship. But you know else,

765
00:41:52,120 --> 00:41:59,279
Speaker 1: it's interesting the plethora of types of oreos. There's like

766
00:41:59,320 --> 00:42:01,040
Speaker 1: so many types of oreos, and like if you go

767
00:42:01,080 --> 00:42:03,920
Speaker 1: to the grocery story, of so many options because capitalism

768
00:42:03,920 --> 00:42:08,000
Speaker 1: has provided with us with just so many options, and

769
00:42:08,040 --> 00:42:11,560
Speaker 1: oreos are all vegan. That's true. Actually I hate except

770
00:42:11,600 --> 00:42:15,160
Speaker 1: for like a except for a couple a couple of kinds.

771
00:42:15,640 --> 00:42:21,120
Speaker 1: I'm sure that the meat one. Yeah, Margaret, you're the

772
00:42:21,160 --> 00:42:22,719
Speaker 1: one who told me that, And I was like, that's

773
00:42:22,719 --> 00:42:26,120
Speaker 1: so beautiful. I know it's it's a cookie that won't

774
00:42:26,200 --> 00:42:29,200
Speaker 1: hurt my stomach. I'm not trying to actually turn this

775
00:42:29,239 --> 00:42:31,120
Speaker 1: into any kind of actual ad, but man, now I

776
00:42:31,200 --> 00:42:32,880
Speaker 1: kind of wish I had some oreos and milk. I know,

777
00:42:32,920 --> 00:42:37,640
Speaker 1: it sounds really really relaxing, like today, this is like

778
00:42:39,400 --> 00:42:45,279
Speaker 1: both this podcast well important, like capitalism provides us so

779
00:42:45,400 --> 00:42:48,799
Speaker 1: many options and including the options that you're about to

780
00:42:48,840 --> 00:42:52,839
Speaker 1: listen to. Are you excited here, Ryan for the capitalism

781
00:42:52,920 --> 00:42:57,920
Speaker 1: that is integraly tied into the narrative of telling history

782
00:42:57,920 --> 00:43:01,520
Speaker 1: in the modern world. I'm sorry, visions of oreos are

783
00:43:01,560 --> 00:43:04,120
Speaker 1: just dancing in my head. Now. That's that's it. I

784
00:43:04,160 --> 00:43:06,560
Speaker 1: can't talk anymore about Ireland. I just have to name

785
00:43:06,680 --> 00:43:11,439
Speaker 1: various kinds of over double stuff. Then oreo birthday cake

786
00:43:11,520 --> 00:43:15,680
Speaker 1: and spice bullshit. Oreo birthday cake ones are nasty. The

787
00:43:15,760 --> 00:43:20,000
Speaker 1: dark chocolate ones are incredible. Oh my god, I'm so hungry.

788
00:43:20,480 --> 00:43:24,560
Speaker 1: My day we had oreos and there was one kind

789
00:43:24,600 --> 00:43:29,000
Speaker 1: of Oreo. It's still the attend Yeah, God's Oreo is

790
00:43:29,000 --> 00:43:33,000
Speaker 1: still the best Oreo. The good Catholic spirits of the

791
00:43:33,120 --> 00:43:38,240
Speaker 1: middle Jesus on one side, God on the other. Exactly. Actually,

792
00:43:38,239 --> 00:43:42,000
Speaker 1: every box of Oreos is blessed by someone at at

793
00:43:42,040 --> 00:43:46,600
Speaker 1: least the bishop level, two eucharists, with just like a

794
00:43:46,640 --> 00:43:58,200
Speaker 1: little bit of cream in between. Here's some ads. Hi,

795
00:43:58,320 --> 00:44:01,000
Speaker 1: we're back. We spend the whole break talking about oreos.

796
00:44:01,800 --> 00:44:04,839
Speaker 1: We really did. We learned so much. There's a whole

797
00:44:04,880 --> 00:44:07,759
Speaker 1: podcast worth of information about oreos in that break. You're

798
00:44:07,760 --> 00:44:11,640
Speaker 1: missing out, listen, you really are. And you know who

799
00:44:11,719 --> 00:44:17,240
Speaker 1: else is missing out is the Earl of Desmond, because

800
00:44:17,840 --> 00:44:20,320
Speaker 1: no oreos for him. Yeah, do you think he deserved

801
00:44:20,320 --> 00:44:23,600
Speaker 1: an oreo. I don't well, you know, okay, okay to

802
00:44:23,840 --> 00:44:26,600
Speaker 1: his I was gonna say he like did lock up

803
00:44:26,680 --> 00:44:29,440
Speaker 1: gran but she showed up on a ship with like

804
00:44:29,560 --> 00:44:32,080
Speaker 1: people with swords and ship and was like, yo, fuck

805
00:44:32,160 --> 00:44:35,000
Speaker 1: you give me give me your stuff. And he was like, no,

806
00:44:35,120 --> 00:44:37,560
Speaker 1: I don't want to. You're going to You're going to

807
00:44:37,640 --> 00:44:39,840
Speaker 1: jail instead. And I'm not like a big jail person.

808
00:44:40,320 --> 00:44:43,160
Speaker 1: But if I if I owned a jail and someone

809
00:44:43,239 --> 00:44:44,840
Speaker 1: was like, I'm gonna kill you unless you give me

810
00:44:44,840 --> 00:44:47,080
Speaker 1: your stuff, and I'm able to like be like not

811
00:44:47,200 --> 00:44:49,840
Speaker 1: just kidding in jail. And then he led a rebellion.

812
00:44:50,280 --> 00:44:53,719
Speaker 1: So I don't know. So you're saying you would give

813
00:44:53,800 --> 00:44:58,319
Speaker 1: him an oreo, yes, but not a one oreo. No,

814
00:44:58,400 --> 00:45:00,920
Speaker 1: not a double stuff. There's some double stuff deserving people.

815
00:45:01,840 --> 00:45:05,440
Speaker 1: That sounds negative, but I mean it positively. Coming up.

816
00:45:06,880 --> 00:45:10,799
Speaker 1: I'll stop making oreo jokes now, I'll keep them in

817
00:45:10,880 --> 00:45:16,960
Speaker 1: my head. So the Earl of Desmond, he has a rebellion.

818
00:45:17,200 --> 00:45:20,360
Speaker 1: It's called Desmond's rebellion or whatever. But there's a rebellion

819
00:45:20,400 --> 00:45:23,760
Speaker 1: every like thirty seconds, so it gets real confusing. Like literally,

820
00:45:23,760 --> 00:45:27,400
Speaker 1: there's multiple Burke rebellions, several of which happened during this

821
00:45:27,480 --> 00:45:29,560
Speaker 1: but if you google Burke rebellion, you get like some

822
00:45:29,560 --> 00:45:31,920
Speaker 1: ship that happened two d years earlier is the primary one,

823
00:45:31,960 --> 00:45:34,839
Speaker 1: even though there's like numerous major ones that fundamentally changed

824
00:45:34,840 --> 00:45:39,000
Speaker 1: some of the politics, and anyway, not a stable place

825
00:45:39,040 --> 00:45:41,680
Speaker 1: because it's in the middle of being absolutely destroyed by

826
00:45:41,719 --> 00:45:46,280
Speaker 1: its neighbor Iron. Richard marches off to go help Granny

827
00:45:46,400 --> 00:45:48,200
Speaker 1: is like, fuck you, he locked me in a fucking cage.

828
00:45:48,200 --> 00:45:51,840
Speaker 1: Funk off. And what's really interesting is that all of

829
00:45:51,840 --> 00:45:54,120
Speaker 1: the official papers that talk about these people at this

830
00:45:54,120 --> 00:45:57,239
Speaker 1: point they stop referring to Granny as Richard's wife, and

831
00:45:57,239 --> 00:45:59,560
Speaker 1: then instead they talk when they talk about Richard, they're like,

832
00:45:59,600 --> 00:46:04,640
Speaker 1: you know, Ronnie's husband, Oh, he became the more famous, Yeah,

833
00:46:04,640 --> 00:46:08,160
Speaker 1: even though he's like literally the like royalty, you know.

834
00:46:09,520 --> 00:46:11,560
Speaker 1: And there's a ton of written records about her and

835
00:46:11,680 --> 00:46:13,880
Speaker 1: Richard showing up to big important meetings and people like

836
00:46:14,000 --> 00:46:15,880
Speaker 1: taking five seconds to go from like why is this

837
00:46:15,920 --> 00:46:18,200
Speaker 1: guy's wife here to just talking to her about everything

838
00:46:18,239 --> 00:46:21,359
Speaker 1: and leaving him out of it. Richard doesn't do well

839
00:46:21,400 --> 00:46:24,160
Speaker 1: in this rebellion, and Grania steps in and negotiates his

840
00:46:24,239 --> 00:46:26,480
Speaker 1: surrender so that he doesn't lose everything, like especially as

841
00:46:26,520 --> 00:46:31,920
Speaker 1: life and the English are murdering the ship out of everybody,

842
00:46:32,239 --> 00:46:35,040
Speaker 1: Famine is driving across the country, and there's all these

843
00:46:35,040 --> 00:46:37,440
Speaker 1: reports about poor Irish peasants who have nothing to their

844
00:46:37,520 --> 00:46:40,160
Speaker 1: name but a single cow, and there's like, well fuck it,

845
00:46:40,360 --> 00:46:44,239
Speaker 1: I'd better to die with some dignity in battle and surrendering.

846
00:46:44,280 --> 00:46:47,080
Speaker 1: Irish warriors are being slaughtered in mass often in these

847
00:46:47,120 --> 00:46:50,680
Speaker 1: like come negotiate a surrender and we'll all you'll all

848
00:46:50,719 --> 00:46:53,120
Speaker 1: be taken care of, and by taking care of, we

849
00:46:53,200 --> 00:46:59,400
Speaker 1: mean murdered. And the Earl of Desmond's rebellion fails, Iron Richard.

850
00:46:59,680 --> 00:47:03,080
Speaker 1: He gets a chance to become the mc william, the

851
00:47:03,160 --> 00:47:05,719
Speaker 1: chief of a huge chunk of county Mayo, because the

852
00:47:05,719 --> 00:47:08,920
Speaker 1: guy he's the Tannis Sto goes and dies. But England

853
00:47:09,320 --> 00:47:11,600
Speaker 1: supports the other guy because they don't give a ship

854
00:47:11,640 --> 00:47:18,080
Speaker 1: about elective monarchy. They like their non elective monarchy, hereditary monarchy.

855
00:47:18,520 --> 00:47:22,880
Speaker 1: They like women throwing swords out of Yeah, yeah, I

856
00:47:22,920 --> 00:47:27,040
Speaker 1: mean better than either of these systems. Literally, picking a

857
00:47:27,120 --> 00:47:29,040
Speaker 1: random person who doesn't want to be in charge is

858
00:47:29,040 --> 00:47:36,480
Speaker 1: probably a better system. But anyway, finally, Granny is like, okay,

859
00:47:36,520 --> 00:47:39,479
Speaker 1: I'm fighting the British and I stand by my guy

860
00:47:39,680 --> 00:47:43,319
Speaker 1: and or my chance at greater political power. So all

861
00:47:43,320 --> 00:47:44,960
Speaker 1: of this like, oh she let all these rebellions I

862
00:47:44,960 --> 00:47:46,880
Speaker 1: think she did throw. I mean she's already fought the

863
00:47:46,880 --> 00:47:49,680
Speaker 1: British off numerous times when they try and take away

864
00:47:49,680 --> 00:47:54,520
Speaker 1: her castle. Yeah, all of Ireland instead of getting pacified

865
00:47:54,560 --> 00:47:57,400
Speaker 1: by all this scorched earth policy and famine and murder

866
00:47:57,400 --> 00:48:00,960
Speaker 1: everyone you see thing, they're just fucking mad. So Grandia

867
00:48:01,040 --> 00:48:04,440
Speaker 1: raises an army. All the clans of County Mayo are like, yeah,

868
00:48:04,560 --> 00:48:06,720
Speaker 1: this is the guy we elected, not that fucking boot

869
00:48:06,719 --> 00:48:09,560
Speaker 1: liquor over there. And so England looks at the like

870
00:48:09,640 --> 00:48:13,360
Speaker 1: two thousand fucking armed people in County Mayo, which is

871
00:48:13,360 --> 00:48:16,280
Speaker 1: like a backwater from their point of view, and it's like, whoops,

872
00:48:16,480 --> 00:48:22,280
Speaker 1: are bad. We met Iron Richard. He's a guy whoever

873
00:48:22,320 --> 00:48:27,839
Speaker 1: you want. Iron Richard is now the McWilliam. But he

874
00:48:27,880 --> 00:48:30,600
Speaker 1: does it. It's it's it's within the Irish, within the

875
00:48:30,640 --> 00:48:35,600
Speaker 1: English system. He doesn't really given to the English system

876
00:48:35,680 --> 00:48:38,879
Speaker 1: at any point. But he's like, they're like, you're a guy,

877
00:48:38,880 --> 00:48:42,279
Speaker 1: and he's like, what you know. He gets to be

878
00:48:42,320 --> 00:48:44,560
Speaker 1: that for a few years until fifty six when he

879
00:48:44,600 --> 00:48:48,520
Speaker 1: goes and dies. Uh, I cannot It's not mentioned in

880
00:48:48,560 --> 00:48:50,919
Speaker 1: any of the three places I looked how he dies,

881
00:48:51,040 --> 00:48:53,000
Speaker 1: just that he dies in eighty six. So my money

882
00:48:53,040 --> 00:48:55,719
Speaker 1: is on out hunting, not actually, I assume he just

883
00:48:55,760 --> 00:49:03,760
Speaker 1: died of battle or old age and pooping really hard. Yeah, yeah, whooping, whooping,

884
00:49:03,840 --> 00:49:07,839
Speaker 1: like whooping and hollereen no more like trying to take

885
00:49:07,840 --> 00:49:09,719
Speaker 1: a ship and then a heart attack. I feel like

886
00:49:09,760 --> 00:49:11,920
Speaker 1: that's how you cut that in detail. You cut out

887
00:49:11,920 --> 00:49:14,800
Speaker 1: if you're a king who dies, you know, like nobody,

888
00:49:15,080 --> 00:49:18,560
Speaker 1: nobody if he died hunting or fighting. Everybody like, oh,

889
00:49:18,560 --> 00:49:21,000
Speaker 1: there's a ballad. When they don't talk about it, you know,

890
00:49:21,040 --> 00:49:23,640
Speaker 1: it's like, actually he tripped and shoved his scissor through

891
00:49:23,680 --> 00:49:29,760
Speaker 1: his eye. Know that that tracks. But Gran can't inherit

892
00:49:30,160 --> 00:49:34,319
Speaker 1: because of course she's a girl. So she fox off

893
00:49:34,320 --> 00:49:37,440
Speaker 1: with some of her retinue and she stays involved in everything,

894
00:49:37,680 --> 00:49:40,120
Speaker 1: but her power is starting to wane because she doesn't

895
00:49:40,120 --> 00:49:43,360
Speaker 1: have access to the ostensibly legitimate authority of her husband anymore.

896
00:49:44,280 --> 00:49:47,680
Speaker 1: And England fox with the secession again, and rebellions are everywhere,

897
00:49:47,800 --> 00:49:50,000
Speaker 1: which the English, especially this new guy on the scene,

898
00:49:50,000 --> 00:49:52,200
Speaker 1: and maybe he's not newbody starts being relevant to our story.

899
00:49:52,239 --> 00:49:55,600
Speaker 1: His name is Bingham. He's a behind the bastard's level,

900
00:49:56,680 --> 00:50:02,279
Speaker 1: absolute monster. He is behind the killing everyone who's surrendering.

901
00:50:02,840 --> 00:50:05,080
Speaker 1: He's the one where I got that piece about like

902
00:50:05,160 --> 00:50:08,440
Speaker 1: how they like talked about referring to Irish women and

903
00:50:08,520 --> 00:50:13,799
Speaker 1: children as prey animals, you know. Um and and so

904
00:50:13,920 --> 00:50:16,040
Speaker 1: this time Grant is like in it to win it.

905
00:50:16,320 --> 00:50:19,480
Speaker 1: And it's called the Burke Rebellion. It's against Bingham, and

906
00:50:20,280 --> 00:50:24,200
Speaker 1: she's throwing downside alongside her sons and her son in

907
00:50:24,280 --> 00:50:29,200
Speaker 1: law whose name is the Devil's Hook. And I don't

908
00:50:29,239 --> 00:50:32,080
Speaker 1: know why, I'm going to assume that he had a

909
00:50:32,080 --> 00:50:37,239
Speaker 1: really funny shape penis. Yes, that is uh. And and

910
00:50:37,400 --> 00:50:39,600
Speaker 1: I don't want to shame anyone who happens to have

911
00:50:39,640 --> 00:50:43,120
Speaker 1: a devil's hook. You should be proud. That sounded sarcastic.

912
00:50:43,160 --> 00:50:46,359
Speaker 1: I actually shame. Yeah, yeah, no, no no no, it's

913
00:50:46,440 --> 00:50:48,520
Speaker 1: good enough to get a nickname made out of it, totally,

914
00:50:49,520 --> 00:50:54,080
Speaker 1: the cock Iron Richard, the Devil's Hook. It's clear that

915
00:50:54,200 --> 00:50:56,600
Speaker 1: she's collecting a certain type of man around her, is

916
00:50:56,600 --> 00:50:59,759
Speaker 1: all I'm saying. That's I mean, she just straight up

917
00:51:00,200 --> 00:51:06,759
Speaker 1: she finds these like strong, brave, not specifically ambitious, but

918
00:51:06,840 --> 00:51:09,960
Speaker 1: not not ambitious men, and it is like, yeah, sort

919
00:51:10,000 --> 00:51:13,080
Speaker 1: of like an army of Instagram models. Yeah, they're not

920
00:51:13,120 --> 00:51:15,799
Speaker 1: going to go far. They're kind of replaceable. They all

921
00:51:15,840 --> 00:51:22,040
Speaker 1: have funny nicknames. Exactly. One of her sons, Owen, he

922
00:51:22,080 --> 00:51:25,279
Speaker 1: wasn't even a rebel, and being him captures him and

923
00:51:25,360 --> 00:51:27,560
Speaker 1: kills him pretty cruelly, like they tie him up and

924
00:51:27,600 --> 00:51:31,480
Speaker 1: stab him to death while he's tied up and gran

925
00:51:32,280 --> 00:51:34,439
Speaker 1: During this Burke's rebellion, she does what she does best.

926
00:51:34,520 --> 00:51:37,000
Speaker 1: She runs things and she sails. In this case, it

927
00:51:37,040 --> 00:51:39,200
Speaker 1: seems like her main task is bringing Scott's over to

928
00:51:39,239 --> 00:51:42,720
Speaker 1: fight and just like running, like running soldiers back and forth,

929
00:51:43,000 --> 00:51:47,360
Speaker 1: Glasgows and Red Shanks both. She's negotiating alliances. She's rescuing

930
00:51:47,440 --> 00:51:50,439
Speaker 1: people like you need a boat, and she's somehow they're

931
00:51:50,560 --> 00:51:53,160
Speaker 1: you know, she's just sucking everywhere doing everything. She's in

932
00:51:53,200 --> 00:51:57,120
Speaker 1: her fifties at this point, and she has grandkids. You're

933
00:51:57,120 --> 00:51:59,200
Speaker 1: just staring into the water and say Grayson Melly, Grayson, Mally,

934
00:51:59,200 --> 00:52:01,839
Speaker 1: Grayson Maally in her it just comes and it's like

935
00:52:01,880 --> 00:52:04,920
Speaker 1: I'm going to save you and take all your money

936
00:52:05,520 --> 00:52:12,000
Speaker 1: and any hot guys. Yeah, ah, it's worth it, but barely,

937
00:52:12,040 --> 00:52:16,920
Speaker 1: you know. Yeah, she gets captured. They build a special

938
00:52:16,960 --> 00:52:19,480
Speaker 1: gallows just for her. They kill a bunch of the

939
00:52:19,480 --> 00:52:21,319
Speaker 1: other people she's captured with right off, but they hold

940
00:52:21,360 --> 00:52:22,480
Speaker 1: on to her for a couple of weeks and they

941
00:52:22,480 --> 00:52:25,000
Speaker 1: build a special gallows and she's like, oh, I'm gonna die,

942
00:52:25,040 --> 00:52:27,600
Speaker 1: and she goes about getting ready to die, and then

943
00:52:28,360 --> 00:52:32,280
Speaker 1: at the last minute there's a reprieve and she's not hanged.

944
00:52:32,719 --> 00:52:37,680
Speaker 1: History does not know why. One version that is not

945
00:52:37,840 --> 00:52:39,600
Speaker 1: very likely is that the Devil's hook her son in

946
00:52:39,680 --> 00:52:42,279
Speaker 1: law convinces Being him to let her go. Beingham is

947
00:52:42,280 --> 00:52:45,360
Speaker 1: not to let him go type type guy. He fucking

948
00:52:45,400 --> 00:52:49,239
Speaker 1: hates her. Another version is that a royal reprieve showed

949
00:52:49,280 --> 00:52:51,600
Speaker 1: up while she was walking to the gallows. This is

950
00:52:51,719 --> 00:52:56,600
Speaker 1: generally seen as um more likely, and she was either

951
00:52:56,600 --> 00:52:58,319
Speaker 1: working for the British or Double Agency and or whatever

952
00:52:58,320 --> 00:52:59,920
Speaker 1: because she's in the middle of leading a rebellion and

953
00:53:00,000 --> 00:53:03,319
Speaker 1: it's them and like, I mean my cover story, I

954
00:53:03,360 --> 00:53:05,080
Speaker 1: don't know. I feel like there's a line, right, but

955
00:53:05,120 --> 00:53:08,200
Speaker 1: maybe there isn't for a spy, like can you show

956
00:53:08,280 --> 00:53:12,440
Speaker 1: up with two found like they didn't have that many fighters,

957
00:53:12,440 --> 00:53:14,200
Speaker 1: and she goes and gets two thousand of them and

958
00:53:14,280 --> 00:53:18,440
Speaker 1: brings them, you know. And also like what does the

959
00:53:18,480 --> 00:53:20,960
Speaker 1: British gain out of saving her at that point? Right?

960
00:53:21,120 --> 00:53:24,400
Speaker 1: She is a spy, So the main thing she's theoretically

961
00:53:24,400 --> 00:53:27,040
Speaker 1: a spy about is actually not Oh this kind of

962
00:53:27,080 --> 00:53:29,640
Speaker 1: makes it makes sense. She's not necessarily a spy about

963
00:53:29,640 --> 00:53:32,880
Speaker 1: Irish rebels. She's a spy about what's happening in the

964
00:53:33,000 --> 00:53:37,000
Speaker 1: shipping and specifically like what Spanish ships and ship are doing.

965
00:53:39,320 --> 00:53:41,960
Speaker 1: This is what is conjectured. No one knows that she

966
00:53:42,040 --> 00:53:45,480
Speaker 1: spied anything, right, but that is the lake. But and

967
00:53:45,520 --> 00:53:47,120
Speaker 1: so it would makes sense that she's like, well, I'm

968
00:53:47,160 --> 00:53:48,920
Speaker 1: kind of a spy about this one thing, but like

969
00:53:48,960 --> 00:53:51,400
Speaker 1: I don't want them to kill my fucking kid, you know.

970
00:53:52,000 --> 00:53:56,359
Speaker 1: And the Burke rebellion is crushed. Everyone gets massacred by

971
00:53:56,360 --> 00:53:59,480
Speaker 1: the British. There's a soldier, like a random British soldier

972
00:53:59,760 --> 00:54:02,560
Speaker 1: who wrote this letter that's basically like I'm so tired

973
00:54:02,600 --> 00:54:05,560
Speaker 1: of killing everyone. And he's just after they're putting all

974
00:54:05,560 --> 00:54:07,960
Speaker 1: the men, women and children to the sword. Like there's

975
00:54:08,000 --> 00:54:10,600
Speaker 1: the letters, like they were trying to run away, but

976
00:54:10,680 --> 00:54:12,479
Speaker 1: we had to like chase them into water and watch

977
00:54:12,560 --> 00:54:15,640
Speaker 1: them drown and then stab everyone he survived. I feel

978
00:54:15,680 --> 00:54:19,520
Speaker 1: like that letter could be sent from basically every war. Yep,

979
00:54:21,880 --> 00:54:24,040
Speaker 1: the British, they're not done murdering the ship out of everyone.

980
00:54:24,120 --> 00:54:26,280
Speaker 1: Empires don't get tired of that ship, even if individual

981
00:54:26,280 --> 00:54:31,319
Speaker 1: people do. In the Spanish tried to attack England. They

982
00:54:31,360 --> 00:54:33,480
Speaker 1: hope to use Ireland as kind of a stepping stone,

983
00:54:33,840 --> 00:54:36,839
Speaker 1: but mostly they just go for England, and they get

984
00:54:36,880 --> 00:54:40,279
Speaker 1: this armata of a hundred and thirty ships. England beats

985
00:54:40,320 --> 00:54:42,440
Speaker 1: the ship out of this armata. England is good at

986
00:54:42,520 --> 00:54:47,200
Speaker 1: navy's It's kind of like, don't invade Russia by land,

987
00:54:47,760 --> 00:54:51,600
Speaker 1: have land war, and and don't um don't try to

988
00:54:51,680 --> 00:54:57,760
Speaker 1: fight England. In specifically a naval context, the armada fleds

989
00:54:57,840 --> 00:55:01,359
Speaker 1: flees home after getting wrecked, but it gets caught up

990
00:55:01,360 --> 00:55:04,000
Speaker 1: in the storms, and twenty four ships are wrecked on

991
00:55:04,040 --> 00:55:07,520
Speaker 1: the west coast of Ireland, and hundreds or thousands of

992
00:55:07,560 --> 00:55:10,120
Speaker 1: Spanish sailors wash up alive on the coast of Ireland.

993
00:55:10,920 --> 00:55:14,400
Speaker 1: So the English say, everyone who sees a Spanish person

994
00:55:14,880 --> 00:55:18,280
Speaker 1: is legally obliged to murder the Spanish person. If you don't,

995
00:55:18,880 --> 00:55:21,759
Speaker 1: we will murder you, which is one of the like

996
00:55:23,120 --> 00:55:27,880
Speaker 1: rudest laws I've ever heard, you know, And it worked.

997
00:55:28,400 --> 00:55:32,200
Speaker 1: Spaniards got murdered and mass but some were moved illicitly

998
00:55:32,200 --> 00:55:34,319
Speaker 1: across the island and over to Scotland and made it

999
00:55:34,360 --> 00:55:36,719
Speaker 1: home and they have amazing stories about their time in

1000
00:55:36,760 --> 00:55:39,080
Speaker 1: Ireland being helped by rebels. This is actually where the

1001
00:55:39,120 --> 00:55:41,560
Speaker 1: story I told earlier about the like Spaniard who's like

1002
00:55:42,000 --> 00:55:44,600
Speaker 1: fleeing across Ireland, who like hangs out in a sweat

1003
00:55:44,600 --> 00:55:46,480
Speaker 1: lodge with naked ladies, and it's just like, huh, this

1004
00:55:46,560 --> 00:55:52,120
Speaker 1: is just the thing, um and uh, I don't know,

1005
00:55:52,239 --> 00:55:58,160
Speaker 1: and so Ireland is now like everyone who helps them

1006
00:55:58,200 --> 00:56:01,279
Speaker 1: is now a rebel because not murdering some random guy

1007
00:56:01,280 --> 00:56:03,480
Speaker 1: who's half dead it makes you a rebel At this point,

1008
00:56:04,320 --> 00:56:10,120
Speaker 1: if you see something kills something, keep calm and murder.

1009
00:56:12,200 --> 00:56:20,799
Speaker 1: That actually is colonization's overwhelming urge, right, Bigham, the guy

1010
00:56:20,840 --> 00:56:23,560
Speaker 1: who just put down Burke's rebellion, Uh, he was really

1011
00:56:23,600 --> 00:56:27,080
Speaker 1: in the murdering Spaniards, like extra super into it. As

1012
00:56:27,120 --> 00:56:28,959
Speaker 1: for the Ohaya, as it depends on who you ask,

1013
00:56:29,360 --> 00:56:31,360
Speaker 1: they either did all the murdering too in order to

1014
00:56:31,400 --> 00:56:33,200
Speaker 1: stay safe or they were a big part of helping

1015
00:56:33,200 --> 00:56:36,480
Speaker 1: people and get safely. Scotland kind of depends on whether

1016
00:56:36,520 --> 00:56:40,160
Speaker 1: people want Grant to be a hero or not. My

1017
00:56:40,280 --> 00:56:42,359
Speaker 1: money is actually a little bit on the ladder, partly

1018
00:56:42,360 --> 00:56:44,840
Speaker 1: because I want her to be a hero, but but

1019
00:56:44,920 --> 00:56:49,040
Speaker 1: especially because they fucking hate Bingham and everything he stands for.

1020
00:56:49,239 --> 00:56:53,920
Speaker 1: And they are world class smugglers and sailors, so if

1021
00:56:53,960 --> 00:56:56,040
Speaker 1: anyone could do that, it would be them. If anyone

1022
00:56:56,040 --> 00:56:57,960
Speaker 1: has a motive to do it, it would be them.

1023
00:56:58,000 --> 00:57:00,400
Speaker 1: And if anyone makes their living by walking around and

1024
00:57:00,400 --> 00:57:05,080
Speaker 1: looking for shipwrecks, it's them. So I don't know. And

1025
00:57:05,080 --> 00:57:08,919
Speaker 1: Bingham decided they did it. Go ahead, always I believe

1026
00:57:09,200 --> 00:57:13,640
Speaker 1: you sold me. Bingham also convinced. He decides that they're

1027
00:57:13,640 --> 00:57:16,840
Speaker 1: all trailers. He starts, and so he starts rounding up

1028
00:57:16,840 --> 00:57:19,880
Speaker 1: a bunch of the Awalias and saying your lands are forfeit.

1029
00:57:21,600 --> 00:57:25,680
Speaker 1: So there's another rebellion. You were thinking, I don't know

1030
00:57:25,680 --> 00:57:27,400
Speaker 1: if she's not even too far up. Too many rebellions.

1031
00:57:27,440 --> 00:57:30,760
Speaker 1: But there's more, and this is the largest. It's a

1032
00:57:30,800 --> 00:57:34,400
Speaker 1: new Burke's rebellion. Two three dred Men march on rock Fleet.

1033
00:57:34,600 --> 00:57:38,320
Speaker 1: Bad bad guys, in English whatever. They march on rock Fleet,

1034
00:57:38,360 --> 00:57:40,760
Speaker 1: which is where Grants hold up after the death of

1035
00:57:40,760 --> 00:57:43,800
Speaker 1: her second husband and sort of like you know, retreat castle.

1036
00:57:45,120 --> 00:57:47,200
Speaker 1: And this small army that is marching on her is

1037
00:57:47,280 --> 00:57:50,360
Speaker 1: led by a name, a man with the most unfortunate

1038
00:57:50,440 --> 00:57:57,640
Speaker 1: name for a bad person to have, John Brown. Oh John.

1039
00:57:57,640 --> 00:58:00,360
Speaker 1: Along the way, they murder the ship out of every one, men,

1040
00:58:00,400 --> 00:58:02,440
Speaker 1: women and children. This is where they start referring to

1041
00:58:02,480 --> 00:58:05,240
Speaker 1: them as prey. That's how we don't remember this job. Yeah,

1042
00:58:05,280 --> 00:58:06,640
Speaker 1: he had an e at the end of his name,

1043
00:58:06,920 --> 00:58:13,200
Speaker 1: at the end of Brown n No Brownie that sounded yep.

1044
00:58:14,000 --> 00:58:17,760
Speaker 1: Uh fuck so the people. So the people gathered up

1045
00:58:17,760 --> 00:58:22,040
Speaker 1: their numbers and attacked them and killed them, just fucking

1046
00:58:22,600 --> 00:58:25,160
Speaker 1: That's the end of John Brown. You walk around the

1047
00:58:25,200 --> 00:58:29,160
Speaker 1: countryside murdering people, and people are gonna murder you. The

1048
00:58:29,240 --> 00:58:33,160
Speaker 1: lesson you gotta learn early in life. All the berkxcepts,

1049
00:58:33,240 --> 00:58:35,760
Speaker 1: which include the Owagas they gather their warriors and they

1050
00:58:35,760 --> 00:58:39,000
Speaker 1: head off, they take Galway. They show up at Galway

1051
00:58:39,000 --> 00:58:40,920
Speaker 1: and they're like, hey, you're gonna support our rebellion, right,

1052
00:58:40,960 --> 00:58:48,440
Speaker 1: and always like yes whatever. Uh. Grans pirates do some

1053
00:58:48,600 --> 00:58:51,240
Speaker 1: rating for supplies along the coast. They no longer run

1054
00:58:51,280 --> 00:58:53,000
Speaker 1: the whole West coast at this point, but there's still

1055
00:58:53,000 --> 00:58:55,600
Speaker 1: like nothing to funk with. Granny and her son are

1056
00:58:55,600 --> 00:58:57,920
Speaker 1: off to Scotland to go get some more fighty guys.

1057
00:58:58,560 --> 00:59:01,440
Speaker 1: The English are like sucks, and they try for a

1058
00:59:01,480 --> 00:59:06,040
Speaker 1: truce and the rebels make their demands, get rid of Bingham,

1059
00:59:06,160 --> 00:59:08,160
Speaker 1: let us keep electing our leaders instead of doing your

1060
00:59:08,200 --> 00:59:11,840
Speaker 1: weird British ship. The elected leader gets called the blind Abbot.

1061
00:59:12,200 --> 00:59:16,800
Speaker 1: I don't think he was blind. People had names. He

1062
00:59:16,880 --> 00:59:19,560
Speaker 1: also might not have been an abbot. There weren't a

1063
00:59:19,560 --> 00:59:22,160
Speaker 1: lot of names back then. You got distinguished between the many,

1064
00:59:22,280 --> 00:59:25,400
Speaker 1: you know, Dermots and gran and I have like seven

1065
00:59:25,480 --> 00:59:30,160
Speaker 1: names totally. Queen of England is like, no, that's too much.

1066
00:59:31,240 --> 00:59:34,160
Speaker 1: So I'm gonna just send a thousand soldiers plus two

1067
00:59:34,520 --> 00:59:38,040
Speaker 1: Irish people and go kill you all. And and they're like, oh,

1068
00:59:38,080 --> 00:59:39,640
Speaker 1: and it's gonna be easy to kill you all because

1069
00:59:39,640 --> 00:59:43,600
Speaker 1: you're all like poor and dumb. And so the Irish

1070
00:59:43,640 --> 00:59:46,360
Speaker 1: sucked them up for a while. Um they like lead

1071
00:59:46,360 --> 00:59:48,360
Speaker 1: them into traps, like they put a couple of guys

1072
00:59:48,360 --> 00:59:51,680
Speaker 1: in the road and they're like, oh, no, the English

1073
00:59:51,760 --> 00:59:54,360
Speaker 1: are coming, let's run into the swamps. Hopefully they won't

1074
00:59:54,440 --> 00:59:57,160
Speaker 1: chase us into these swamps, and they like ambush the

1075
00:59:57,160 --> 00:59:59,840
Speaker 1: ship out of him. But unfortunately, and here's one of

1076
00:59:59,880 --> 01:00:02,720
Speaker 1: your problems with hierarchy, the blind Abbot is part of

1077
01:00:02,720 --> 01:00:06,120
Speaker 1: this particular ambush on the swamps and he uh, he

1078
01:00:06,200 --> 01:00:09,520
Speaker 1: loses a foot in the fighting, or he gets it,

1079
01:00:09,560 --> 01:00:12,560
Speaker 1: doesn't get like hacked off, but he he guess wounded

1080
01:00:12,640 --> 01:00:16,120
Speaker 1: and he has to get it amputated. Call him the

1081
01:00:16,120 --> 01:00:19,080
Speaker 1: one know, they call him the guy who disappeared from history,

1082
01:00:19,080 --> 01:00:21,400
Speaker 1: stopped trying to lead a rebellion and like just try

1083
01:00:21,440 --> 01:00:23,520
Speaker 1: to live quietly in peace for the rest of his life.

1084
01:00:24,640 --> 01:00:31,320
Speaker 1: He like most of us, totally he ran up who

1085
01:00:31,360 --> 01:00:37,360
Speaker 1: now identify as tiredly got really in a history, got

1086
01:00:37,360 --> 01:00:39,240
Speaker 1: a couple of swords on his walls. Still though, Yeah,

1087
01:00:39,480 --> 01:00:42,080
Speaker 1: like I used to do that ship. I fucking tell

1088
01:00:42,080 --> 01:00:45,919
Speaker 1: the younger people when they listen, rebel, you can take

1089
01:00:45,920 --> 01:00:51,840
Speaker 1: the name Burke's Rebellion. I did that twice. Yeah, And

1090
01:00:51,880 --> 01:00:55,919
Speaker 1: then even worse than that, one of Granny's sons went

1091
01:00:55,960 --> 01:00:58,960
Speaker 1: traitor and joined the English and Grant is like, fuck

1092
01:00:59,040 --> 01:01:01,000
Speaker 1: you forever, and it's like I'm going to find that

1093
01:01:01,080 --> 01:01:02,640
Speaker 1: kid and teach him a lesson. I don't believe she

1094
01:01:02,680 --> 01:01:07,120
Speaker 1: ever does. Bingham traps Grana on an island and confiscates

1095
01:01:07,120 --> 01:01:10,920
Speaker 1: her fleet, and everything just sucks. The whole country is

1096
01:01:11,040 --> 01:01:14,560
Speaker 1: fucked poor, everyone's dead, England's in charge, she's like sixty

1097
01:01:14,640 --> 01:01:19,000
Speaker 1: years old, She's largely defeated. And here's where the three

1098
01:01:19,120 --> 01:01:21,960
Speaker 1: Hues show up on the scene. I promise you three

1099
01:01:21,960 --> 01:01:24,480
Speaker 1: people named Hugh told you they're all right. One point

1100
01:01:24,600 --> 01:01:29,200
Speaker 1: right at the end. There's Hugh O'Neill, the Earl of Tyrone,

1101
01:01:29,280 --> 01:01:31,880
Speaker 1: and he's this English educated irishman who pretends to be

1102
01:01:31,920 --> 01:01:33,880
Speaker 1: the loyal to clean, loyal to the queen, but he's

1103
01:01:33,880 --> 01:01:39,880
Speaker 1: plotting rebellion. And then yeah, I'm going to rate the Hues. Okay, okay.

1104
01:01:40,640 --> 01:01:43,600
Speaker 1: Then there's this bud red Hugh O'Donnell. He's got a

1105
01:01:43,600 --> 01:01:46,200
Speaker 1: good name, he does, who is also like, we better

1106
01:01:46,240 --> 01:01:47,960
Speaker 1: fucking do something or we're all going to die because

1107
01:01:47,960 --> 01:01:51,160
Speaker 1: he's English or monsters. That's all I got on him.

1108
01:01:51,200 --> 01:01:54,040
Speaker 1: And then there's Hugh McGuire, who just showed up with

1109
01:01:54,080 --> 01:01:57,120
Speaker 1: a thousand fighters to rate some of Bingham's stuff and

1110
01:01:57,360 --> 01:02:01,439
Speaker 1: ends up a rebel. Somehow, I mostly included their names

1111
01:02:01,440 --> 01:02:04,600
Speaker 1: because they're all named Hue. I appreciate that. I'm gonna

1112
01:02:04,680 --> 01:02:08,120
Speaker 1: I'm gonna pick Red Hue as my favorite because you know,

1113
01:02:08,160 --> 01:02:09,560
Speaker 1: he's got a little bit more of a fun name,

1114
01:02:09,600 --> 01:02:10,960
Speaker 1: and you said you don't know much about him, so

1115
01:02:10,960 --> 01:02:13,240
Speaker 1: I'm going to assume that he was the best of them. Yeah,

1116
01:02:13,280 --> 01:02:19,120
Speaker 1: I think so, actually, um. Yeah, And they're mostly tangential

1117
01:02:19,160 --> 01:02:22,360
Speaker 1: except Hugh O'Neill, who's gonna he's not a big part

1118
01:02:22,360 --> 01:02:23,640
Speaker 1: of this story. Is a big part of what happens

1119
01:02:23,640 --> 01:02:25,560
Speaker 1: after this story. There's a nine years war. It's called

1120
01:02:25,560 --> 01:02:27,840
Speaker 1: the nine Years War. Be sad if they called it

1121
01:02:27,880 --> 01:02:30,160
Speaker 1: like the seven Years War, I know, and they were like, really,

1122
01:02:30,160 --> 01:02:35,080
Speaker 1: those two years count for nothing to you. Yeah, one

1123
01:02:35,080 --> 01:02:36,760
Speaker 1: of these rebels, not one of the Hues, but one

1124
01:02:36,760 --> 01:02:39,280
Speaker 1: of the Hues soldiers with the last Hue, Um, Hugh

1125
01:02:39,400 --> 01:02:41,880
Speaker 1: McGuire's soldiers. He gets captured and he snitches out a

1126
01:02:41,920 --> 01:02:44,760
Speaker 1: bunch of Grannie's family and he's basically like, yeah, no,

1127
01:02:44,880 --> 01:02:47,280
Speaker 1: there are the rebels. There are the rebels, right, And

1128
01:02:47,320 --> 01:02:49,200
Speaker 1: the history book I read was like kind of implying

1129
01:02:49,240 --> 01:02:51,280
Speaker 1: that that was actually just completely like made up bullshit

1130
01:02:51,360 --> 01:02:52,840
Speaker 1: because these people are sort of famous and you can

1131
01:02:52,920 --> 01:02:54,400
Speaker 1: kind of point a finger to them and bing him

1132
01:02:54,400 --> 01:02:56,440
Speaker 1: hates them, and it's a good way to get in

1133
01:02:56,440 --> 01:02:57,920
Speaker 1: with someone to be like, yeah, yeah, I swear I

1134
01:02:57,920 --> 01:03:01,840
Speaker 1: was Grania, but it also could have been like, we

1135
01:03:01,960 --> 01:03:04,640
Speaker 1: don't know what she was doing. Is what's so interesting

1136
01:03:04,640 --> 01:03:07,280
Speaker 1: about a lot of this? And so he snitches out

1137
01:03:07,280 --> 01:03:09,680
Speaker 1: her son Tibbott, her son in law the Devil's Hook,

1138
01:03:10,200 --> 01:03:12,640
Speaker 1: and her half brother who hadn't even mattered enough in

1139
01:03:12,680 --> 01:03:15,840
Speaker 1: this story to be included until now, whose name is

1140
01:03:16,160 --> 01:03:19,680
Speaker 1: Donald of the Pipes because he liked played. I know

1141
01:03:19,720 --> 01:03:22,080
Speaker 1: what you're thinking. I know you're thinking everyone's phallic names.

1142
01:03:22,800 --> 01:03:26,400
Speaker 1: I don't know what you are making assumptions actually even

1143
01:03:26,440 --> 01:03:31,480
Speaker 1: know where you get that from this Because I'm gay, yes, yes,

1144
01:03:35,720 --> 01:03:38,240
Speaker 1: well I wouldn't want to call you gay specifically, after all,

1145
01:03:38,240 --> 01:03:40,200
Speaker 1: you would just in a specific time period. And so

1146
01:03:40,200 --> 01:03:42,760
Speaker 1: I'm really more concerned with the acts rather than the

1147
01:03:44,440 --> 01:03:48,600
Speaker 1: concerned with the pipes than anything. Yeah, exactly exactly. So

1148
01:03:48,640 --> 01:03:50,400
Speaker 1: Donald of the Pipes he gets this name to this

1149
01:03:50,480 --> 01:03:53,160
Speaker 1: because he's peaceful guy who plays the flute, and he's

1150
01:03:53,200 --> 01:03:54,760
Speaker 1: like not been part of any of this. He's just

1151
01:03:54,800 --> 01:03:57,760
Speaker 1: like sucking. Like there's a reason that she was the

1152
01:03:57,760 --> 01:03:59,680
Speaker 1: one who took over the family business, and he hung

1153
01:03:59,680 --> 01:04:02,600
Speaker 1: around and he played the flute. He's the hippie who's

1154
01:04:02,640 --> 01:04:07,840
Speaker 1: like wearing a drug rug. Yeah totally, yeah uh, And

1155
01:04:07,880 --> 01:04:11,200
Speaker 1: he gets arrested. Captured is really the word I think

1156
01:04:11,200 --> 01:04:16,120
Speaker 1: when an invading force does the arresting, but probably always so.

1157
01:04:16,640 --> 01:04:18,880
Speaker 1: Bingham grabs a bunch of these people, including two of

1158
01:04:18,880 --> 01:04:21,920
Speaker 1: her sons, and it's just all too much for Grania.

1159
01:04:22,240 --> 01:04:24,720
Speaker 1: Everything keeps happening. She's trying to keep her family alive

1160
01:04:24,760 --> 01:04:26,320
Speaker 1: and together, and now her kids are in prison, and

1161
01:04:26,320 --> 01:04:27,919
Speaker 1: one of her kids are dead. Of course, another one's

1162
01:04:27,920 --> 01:04:31,320
Speaker 1: a traitor. She's poor. She doesn't like being poor, so

1163
01:04:31,360 --> 01:04:36,640
Speaker 1: she writes Queen Elizabeth a letter. She writes a letter

1164
01:04:36,760 --> 01:04:40,120
Speaker 1: and it's like, hey, sorry, I'm a pirate and a rebel.

1165
01:04:40,280 --> 01:04:43,720
Speaker 1: I had to because I'm a woman. I couldn't inherent Land.

1166
01:04:43,800 --> 01:04:47,920
Speaker 1: She's like playing the identity card really hard here. And

1167
01:04:48,000 --> 01:04:49,960
Speaker 1: also the thing they have in common, right, it's like

1168
01:04:50,400 --> 01:04:53,400
Speaker 1: you've had this problem, I think, yeah, totally. And it's

1169
01:04:53,400 --> 01:04:54,960
Speaker 1: actually really interesting because they were born in the same

1170
01:04:55,040 --> 01:04:58,040
Speaker 1: year and died the same year. Probably no one really

1171
01:04:58,080 --> 01:04:59,919
Speaker 1: knows when she was born or died but like most

1172
01:05:00,120 --> 01:05:02,680
Speaker 1: likely she died, was born and died the same year

1173
01:05:02,720 --> 01:05:06,080
Speaker 1: as Queen Elizabeth. But she's like, sorry, I'm a pirate

1174
01:05:06,080 --> 01:05:07,440
Speaker 1: and a rebel. I had to because I wasn't able

1175
01:05:07,480 --> 01:05:09,640
Speaker 1: to inherit any land, and I had to keep up

1176
01:05:10,040 --> 01:05:12,880
Speaker 1: my life with it with my husband Dad. Can you

1177
01:05:12,920 --> 01:05:16,200
Speaker 1: buy any chance, like forgive me, maybe give me some

1178
01:05:16,240 --> 01:05:19,200
Speaker 1: money and then also let my sons out of jail.

1179
01:05:20,240 --> 01:05:22,520
Speaker 1: And the letter actually reaches the queen and this is

1180
01:05:22,560 --> 01:05:26,600
Speaker 1: like she's a spy. Um. People are like, how did

1181
01:05:26,600 --> 01:05:30,000
Speaker 1: it get there? What possible weird chain of how could

1182
01:05:30,040 --> 01:05:33,080
Speaker 1: it have gotten there? And the Queen grants her an audience.

1183
01:05:33,600 --> 01:05:35,880
Speaker 1: She's in her sixties and she captains a ship up

1184
01:05:35,880 --> 01:05:39,320
Speaker 1: the Thames into London. She brings an entourage of people

1185
01:05:39,320 --> 01:05:42,480
Speaker 1: with complaints about Bingham. She'll do anything to help her

1186
01:05:42,520 --> 01:05:45,280
Speaker 1: family and her people, right. She'll fight, should negotiate, she'll rob,

1187
01:05:45,360 --> 01:05:48,760
Speaker 1: she'll beg. She'll probably like make deals and ship you know,

1188
01:05:49,280 --> 01:05:53,040
Speaker 1: possibly spy. Yeah. The legends called this the meeting of

1189
01:05:53,080 --> 01:05:56,320
Speaker 1: two queens. They're almost identical ages, both coming from down

1190
01:05:56,360 --> 01:05:58,840
Speaker 1: from the high points of their careers. Of course, Granny

1191
01:05:58,880 --> 01:06:01,800
Speaker 1: isn't technically a queen, never held any official title, scarcely

1192
01:06:01,800 --> 01:06:05,360
Speaker 1: any lands. Her power was all held together by being clever, successful,

1193
01:06:05,400 --> 01:06:09,520
Speaker 1: and ruthless. And there's no recording of this meeting, which

1194
01:06:09,560 --> 01:06:12,360
Speaker 1: is a shame. There's lots of myths around it, which

1195
01:06:12,400 --> 01:06:15,200
Speaker 1: is fun. They probably, but most of those myths are

1196
01:06:15,320 --> 01:06:18,040
Speaker 1: very like we're kind of written from the sort of

1197
01:06:18,080 --> 01:06:24,439
Speaker 1: like Irish patriot point of view about like her actually

1198
01:06:24,520 --> 01:06:26,440
Speaker 1: is kind of fun. There's like like one version of

1199
01:06:26,480 --> 01:06:29,080
Speaker 1: the story is like she like blows her nose and

1200
01:06:29,320 --> 01:06:31,280
Speaker 1: like she's like coughing, and so the queen gives her

1201
01:06:31,320 --> 01:06:35,760
Speaker 1: a fancy handkerchief and she's just like blows her nose

1202
01:06:35,800 --> 01:06:37,440
Speaker 1: into it and like throws it on the ground and

1203
01:06:37,440 --> 01:06:39,800
Speaker 1: then like and then like how could you act that

1204
01:06:39,840 --> 01:06:42,120
Speaker 1: way in front of your queen? She's like, whatever, we're equals.

1205
01:06:42,160 --> 01:06:46,080
Speaker 1: Fuck you. Yeah. That definitely sounds like the sort of

1206
01:06:46,120 --> 01:06:50,000
Speaker 1: story you want to be true. Not yeah. Yeah, I

1207
01:06:50,000 --> 01:06:52,800
Speaker 1: am almost certain she showed up and was like, please,

1208
01:06:52,840 --> 01:06:54,800
Speaker 1: for the love of God, don't murder me or my kids.

1209
01:06:55,600 --> 01:06:57,240
Speaker 1: And they speak in Latin. I don't know whether she

1210
01:06:57,280 --> 01:07:01,000
Speaker 1: spoke English or not. And after few months she waits

1211
01:07:01,000 --> 01:07:04,320
Speaker 1: around London waiting for official response, and the Queen is like, yeah, okay,

1212
01:07:04,680 --> 01:07:06,640
Speaker 1: and gives her a letter and the letter is to

1213
01:07:06,640 --> 01:07:09,880
Speaker 1: give to Bingham. And she goes and she delivers a letter,

1214
01:07:09,880 --> 01:07:11,520
Speaker 1: and the letter says she has to he has to

1215
01:07:11,600 --> 01:07:14,080
Speaker 1: let her kids go and then also provide her with

1216
01:07:14,120 --> 01:07:17,600
Speaker 1: a maintenance a salary for being alive. Basically, the ostensible

1217
01:07:17,600 --> 01:07:20,080
Speaker 1: reason was because she was cut out of her husband's inheritance,

1218
01:07:20,720 --> 01:07:23,800
Speaker 1: some of the like taxes from the peasants on his

1219
01:07:23,920 --> 01:07:26,920
Speaker 1: land should go to her or whatever you know. Royalty

1220
01:07:27,000 --> 01:07:29,680
Speaker 1: like her to retire from being a pirate by giving

1221
01:07:29,680 --> 01:07:34,160
Speaker 1: her like a steady income. Yeah, totally. Bingham is pissed.

1222
01:07:35,240 --> 01:07:37,520
Speaker 1: He releases her kids, but he makes her life hell.

1223
01:07:38,240 --> 01:07:40,720
Speaker 1: So he quarters all of his troops in her place

1224
01:07:41,440 --> 01:07:43,880
Speaker 1: and tells them to eat and drink anything they want

1225
01:07:44,520 --> 01:07:47,360
Speaker 1: and just like drives her into poverty. So she foks

1226
01:07:47,400 --> 01:07:51,120
Speaker 1: off to a sympathetic earl somewhere else and the rest

1227
01:07:51,160 --> 01:07:54,120
Speaker 1: of her life is pretty much quiet. It seems like

1228
01:07:54,440 --> 01:07:58,200
Speaker 1: this nine year war the Hughes versus Elizabeth, it seems

1229
01:07:58,240 --> 01:08:01,960
Speaker 1: like she sides with the English. She specifically is to

1230
01:08:02,040 --> 01:08:05,480
Speaker 1: like patrol the west coast of Ireland to keep mostly

1231
01:08:05,520 --> 01:08:09,520
Speaker 1: the Spanish at Bay and it's she also encouraged her

1232
01:08:09,560 --> 01:08:13,920
Speaker 1: son to fight for the English too, But there's also

1233
01:08:14,000 --> 01:08:17,080
Speaker 1: reports that say her son met with you O'Neill and

1234
01:08:17,200 --> 01:08:21,559
Speaker 1: was like, look, I'm actually on your side. So it's

1235
01:08:21,640 --> 01:08:25,680
Speaker 1: possible they just fucking kept being double agents, like and

1236
01:08:25,720 --> 01:08:29,880
Speaker 1: they hereditarily became double agents. I mean, honestly, I think

1237
01:08:30,160 --> 01:08:33,759
Speaker 1: at that time like to live a double agent, triple agent.

1238
01:08:34,200 --> 01:08:37,000
Speaker 1: I think that if you were a colonized subject and

1239
01:08:37,080 --> 01:08:40,519
Speaker 1: you have access to some degree of power, you had

1240
01:08:40,600 --> 01:08:43,400
Speaker 1: to do that dance right there was Maybe people didn't

1241
01:08:43,439 --> 01:08:45,360
Speaker 1: know you were doing it, but you were probably every

1242
01:08:45,360 --> 01:08:48,240
Speaker 1: single day of your life asking yourself like how do

1243
01:08:48,320 --> 01:08:50,880
Speaker 1: I get through? How do my children get through? What

1244
01:08:50,920 --> 01:08:52,479
Speaker 1: do I need to do? Who do I need to

1245
01:08:52,520 --> 01:08:54,320
Speaker 1: funk up? And who do I need to cow tow to?

1246
01:08:54,920 --> 01:08:57,960
Speaker 1: And how do I flip those when I can. I

1247
01:08:58,000 --> 01:09:00,439
Speaker 1: wonder what it most like at that end of your

1248
01:09:00,479 --> 01:09:03,760
Speaker 1: life to have gone through all of that and then

1249
01:09:03,800 --> 01:09:08,520
Speaker 1: to just have this moment of like not peace exactly,

1250
01:09:08,640 --> 01:09:10,720
Speaker 1: do you know, but to slip out of history to

1251
01:09:10,880 --> 01:09:14,120
Speaker 1: be what do you how do you make sense of

1252
01:09:14,120 --> 01:09:16,559
Speaker 1: your own life at that point, The compromises you've made,

1253
01:09:16,560 --> 01:09:20,280
Speaker 1: the choices, the I just wish like more than a

1254
01:09:20,320 --> 01:09:23,599
Speaker 1: record of their meeting. I would love like a type

1255
01:09:23,640 --> 01:09:25,439
Speaker 1: document at the end of her life where she's like,

1256
01:09:25,560 --> 01:09:28,920
Speaker 1: does I feel about all of this? I know, like

1257
01:09:30,200 --> 01:09:32,720
Speaker 1: and it and it leads to this thing. So she's like,

1258
01:09:34,120 --> 01:09:37,360
Speaker 1: she's not really written into the official histories of Ireland.

1259
01:09:37,400 --> 01:09:39,599
Speaker 1: And there's a couple of reasons for that. One says,

1260
01:09:39,640 --> 01:09:44,520
Speaker 1: she's not an easy story. Uh, if you're an English patriot,

1261
01:09:44,760 --> 01:09:48,479
Speaker 1: she's not your guy. If you're an Irish patriot, she's

1262
01:09:48,520 --> 01:09:52,479
Speaker 1: not your guy. If you're a Christian monk, she's not

1263
01:09:53,320 --> 01:09:56,880
Speaker 1: a guy. H But legend picks her up as this

1264
01:09:56,960 --> 01:09:59,040
Speaker 1: sort of Robin Hood or Rob Roy, the sort of

1265
01:09:59,040 --> 01:10:02,840
Speaker 1: Scottish Robin Hood. Many ways, she probably wasn't. She was

1266
01:10:02,880 --> 01:10:06,120
Speaker 1: probably just another would be tyrant. But I don't know,

1267
01:10:06,160 --> 01:10:10,840
Speaker 1: Like she's just yeah, I wish I fucking knew and

1268
01:10:10,840 --> 01:10:13,560
Speaker 1: and and I think that the answer is all of

1269
01:10:13,600 --> 01:10:16,280
Speaker 1: these complex things where she was like playing both sides,

1270
01:10:16,840 --> 01:10:22,559
Speaker 1: trying to keep her family alive, and I suspect I

1271
01:10:22,600 --> 01:10:25,240
Speaker 1: don't know. I suspect that because she was so mad

1272
01:10:25,360 --> 01:10:27,880
Speaker 1: at her son for joining the English and yet later

1273
01:10:27,920 --> 01:10:29,920
Speaker 1: she told her other son to join the English which

1274
01:10:29,960 --> 01:10:31,439
Speaker 1: makes me think either she's had a change her heart

1275
01:10:31,479 --> 01:10:34,400
Speaker 1: because she's met Queen Elizabeth and I was like one

1276
01:10:34,479 --> 01:10:36,840
Speaker 1: EIGHTI but she was in her fucking sixties, and I

1277
01:10:36,840 --> 01:10:40,000
Speaker 1: feel like people don't like one eighty there beliefs as

1278
01:10:40,080 --> 01:10:45,640
Speaker 1: much in their sixties. Maybe, but like, I don't know,

1279
01:10:46,479 --> 01:10:49,400
Speaker 1: I mean imagine she also couldn't see the like sweep

1280
01:10:49,400 --> 01:10:51,600
Speaker 1: of history that we see so easily, you know, for

1281
01:10:51,680 --> 01:10:53,720
Speaker 1: all we know, she was looking at it thinking the

1282
01:10:53,760 --> 01:10:57,519
Speaker 1: English monarchy is gonna collapse tomorrow. Yeah, sure, go join

1283
01:10:57,600 --> 01:11:00,080
Speaker 1: them for a moment, you know, or or who the

1284
01:11:00,080 --> 01:11:03,400
Speaker 1: fuck knows. I mean, that's not the difficult thing about

1285
01:11:03,400 --> 01:11:05,320
Speaker 1: so much of this, particularly these folks like you were saying,

1286
01:11:05,360 --> 01:11:11,080
Speaker 1: who we really know mostly through legend more than anything else. Yeah,

1287
01:11:11,120 --> 01:11:15,960
Speaker 1: And she like she was alive during when Breton law,

1288
01:11:16,000 --> 01:11:19,120
Speaker 1: when Irish law fell, you know, because I mean England

1289
01:11:19,120 --> 01:11:22,639
Speaker 1: had been colonizing trying for hundreds of years at that point,

1290
01:11:22,840 --> 01:11:26,479
Speaker 1: but overall Ireland was Ireland or Irish or Breton or

1291
01:11:26,560 --> 01:11:31,519
Speaker 1: whatever the fun for a thousand years. Every everything she

1292
01:11:31,560 --> 01:11:34,120
Speaker 1: could see in the past had always been that. And yeah,

1293
01:11:34,160 --> 01:11:39,360
Speaker 1: like here's this like forty year period where everything is changing,

1294
01:11:39,400 --> 01:11:40,840
Speaker 1: and so it would makes sense for her to just

1295
01:11:40,880 --> 01:11:44,080
Speaker 1: be like, how do I navigate this ship? Yeah, and

1296
01:11:44,120 --> 01:11:46,599
Speaker 1: maybe even to believe that nothing that the English did

1297
01:11:46,640 --> 01:11:49,639
Speaker 1: was gonna work that thousand years of history whatever. They'll

1298
01:11:49,640 --> 01:11:52,000
Speaker 1: throw themselves against this wall and they will fall apart.

1299
01:11:52,000 --> 01:11:53,960
Speaker 1: And so for a moment, maybe I'm gonna pretend I'm

1300
01:11:54,000 --> 01:11:56,000
Speaker 1: with them, because that's going to get me through. But

1301
01:11:56,320 --> 01:11:59,920
Speaker 1: it's never gonna work out, you know. I don't know.

1302
01:12:00,000 --> 01:12:02,160
Speaker 1: Maybe I'm just trying to recoup her because I also

1303
01:12:02,200 --> 01:12:05,960
Speaker 1: want the legend to be true. I want fierce pirate queens,

1304
01:12:06,120 --> 01:12:12,519
Speaker 1: Irish pirate queens resisting the British. Yeah, but never that

1305
01:12:12,680 --> 01:12:18,000
Speaker 1: straight forward. Nope. No, That's the other thing about history.

1306
01:12:18,000 --> 01:12:20,559
Speaker 1: I think if people really dig into it, the easy

1307
01:12:20,640 --> 01:12:23,880
Speaker 1: lessons fall apart so fast. The easy lessons you learned

1308
01:12:23,920 --> 01:12:26,320
Speaker 1: in kindergarten. George Washington couldn't tell a lie I chopped

1309
01:12:26,320 --> 01:12:28,640
Speaker 1: down a cherry tree. Whatever nobody's telling you about his

1310
01:12:28,680 --> 01:12:31,800
Speaker 1: teeth made from the teeth ripped out of slaves heads. Right,

1311
01:12:32,000 --> 01:12:35,680
Speaker 1: The easy history is like almost always wrong. Anytime I

1312
01:12:35,760 --> 01:12:39,160
Speaker 1: encounter something, it seems like a really easy pat narrative,

1313
01:12:39,160 --> 01:12:40,840
Speaker 1: and you can tell who's good and who's bad and

1314
01:12:40,880 --> 01:12:42,760
Speaker 1: it doesn't change over the whole course of it. I'm like,

1315
01:12:42,920 --> 01:12:47,280
Speaker 1: that wasn't written by a historian. Yea, yeah, totally. Well,

1316
01:12:47,400 --> 01:12:50,720
Speaker 1: well thanks for coming and being the you know, we

1317
01:12:50,800 --> 01:12:53,240
Speaker 1: really played dear strengths the whole time and at things

1318
01:12:53,320 --> 01:12:57,920
Speaker 1: based on New York City. And I gotta say, if

1319
01:12:57,960 --> 01:13:01,240
Speaker 1: you're choosing to play like, the only other thing anything

1320
01:13:01,280 --> 01:13:03,320
Speaker 1: in the whole world that I know about other than

1321
01:13:03,400 --> 01:13:07,000
Speaker 1: like your New York City happens to be Irish women,

1322
01:13:07,080 --> 01:13:09,760
Speaker 1: because I come from a giant clan of them. So

1323
01:13:09,840 --> 01:13:13,120
Speaker 1: actually this this worked out well. It was like a

1324
01:13:13,160 --> 01:13:14,880
Speaker 1: little bit of learning and a little bit of like,

1325
01:13:14,920 --> 01:13:17,679
Speaker 1: oh yeah, I've been forced to listen to that story

1326
01:13:17,720 --> 01:13:20,080
Speaker 1: a hundred times, but I can't remember the details. So

1327
01:13:20,600 --> 01:13:25,640
Speaker 1: let's get let's get down. We were so Irish. I

1328
01:13:25,680 --> 01:13:29,040
Speaker 1: grew up going to Irish festivals like every summer of

1329
01:13:29,120 --> 01:13:32,599
Speaker 1: my youth. All of my cousins like did step dancing.

1330
01:13:32,760 --> 01:13:35,880
Speaker 1: And I was the first one like that of my

1331
01:13:36,240 --> 01:13:38,880
Speaker 1: generation and the generations about me who was not sent

1332
01:13:38,960 --> 01:13:41,479
Speaker 1: to the cat Skills in the summers to work in

1333
01:13:41,560 --> 01:13:44,799
Speaker 1: the Irish resorts that were there for like the poor Irish.

1334
01:13:44,840 --> 01:13:45,920
Speaker 1: You know, you go and work in that way you

1335
01:13:46,000 --> 01:13:48,240
Speaker 1: connect with your Irish roots and everything. My brother was

1336
01:13:48,320 --> 01:13:50,960
Speaker 1: the last of them. He was five years older than me.

1337
01:13:51,439 --> 01:13:53,280
Speaker 1: So I just feel like this is like a real

1338
01:13:53,320 --> 01:13:56,599
Speaker 1: homecoming and I feel very welcomed by the podcast. So okay, well,

1339
01:13:56,720 --> 01:13:59,519
Speaker 1: thank you excellent. Yeah. It was funny because I was like,

1340
01:14:00,120 --> 01:14:02,560
Speaker 1: I I didn't I didn't know or whether or not

1341
01:14:02,640 --> 01:14:04,120
Speaker 1: you're Irish. And I was like, I was like, what

1342
01:14:04,280 --> 01:14:06,639
Speaker 1: the name? Probably I was like, I'll be fine either way.

1343
01:14:06,680 --> 01:14:09,719
Speaker 1: It's going to be my whole name is you? Oh

1344
01:14:09,800 --> 01:14:13,639
Speaker 1: to me, Peter Ryan, I am very h okay cool? Yeah,

1345
01:14:13,640 --> 01:14:16,960
Speaker 1: that would have that would have worked. Yeah. Yeah, I

1346
01:14:16,960 --> 01:14:19,040
Speaker 1: don't know. There's like so much I wish I really

1347
01:14:19,120 --> 01:14:20,479
Speaker 1: knew how to say and one day I all know

1348
01:14:20,479 --> 01:14:24,600
Speaker 1: how to say about about how Irish and identity is

1349
01:14:24,640 --> 01:14:27,080
Speaker 1: like represented in American culture and like you're talking about

1350
01:14:27,120 --> 01:14:29,639
Speaker 1: growing up, step dancing and stuff, and and on one level,

1351
01:14:29,760 --> 01:14:34,400
Speaker 1: it's kind of like, you know, okay, well, the things

1352
01:14:34,439 --> 01:14:36,599
Speaker 1: that you know, if my Irish family would talk about

1353
01:14:36,600 --> 01:14:39,479
Speaker 1: all this Irish stuff but wouldn't talk about the Irish language,

1354
01:14:39,600 --> 01:14:42,559
Speaker 1: wouldn't talk about Irish politics, we wouldn't talk about the

1355
01:14:42,560 --> 01:14:44,800
Speaker 1: fact that like my great grand my great great uncle

1356
01:14:44,800 --> 01:14:47,000
Speaker 1: whoe met who fought an Easter Rising. I went to

1357
01:14:47,040 --> 01:14:50,519
Speaker 1: his hunter's birthday party and go away and did not

1358
01:14:50,560 --> 01:14:52,280
Speaker 1: talk about politics. I didn't know that he fought the

1359
01:14:52,280 --> 01:14:55,559
Speaker 1: Easter Rising until I was very much an adult, and like,

1360
01:14:56,200 --> 01:14:58,120
Speaker 1: and so there's all of this stuff that just like,

1361
01:14:58,400 --> 01:15:01,800
Speaker 1: wouldn't you know. It's like like American version of Irishness

1362
01:15:02,040 --> 01:15:05,599
Speaker 1: is often just the cultural elements and not the political elements. Um,

1363
01:15:05,640 --> 01:15:07,760
Speaker 1: certainly because it would be very inconvenient for us as

1364
01:15:08,360 --> 01:15:13,880
Speaker 1: colonizers in North America too, really grapple with what it

1365
01:15:13,920 --> 01:15:17,080
Speaker 1: means to be you know, colonized, and as migrants. I mean,

1366
01:15:17,120 --> 01:15:21,000
Speaker 1: the Irish were probably the biggest European country to be

1367
01:15:21,320 --> 01:15:27,120
Speaker 1: sending out refugees and asylum seekers for generations. And now

1368
01:15:27,160 --> 01:15:30,160
Speaker 1: those same people are sometimes chanting close the borders and

1369
01:15:30,240 --> 01:15:33,280
Speaker 1: saying like offensive ship, like my family came over the

1370
01:15:33,360 --> 01:15:34,880
Speaker 1: right way, and I'm like, when your family came over,

1371
01:15:34,960 --> 01:15:37,559
Speaker 1: my family came over. There were no immigration laws stopping

1372
01:15:37,600 --> 01:15:42,280
Speaker 1: the Irish from cups. So no, no, it is not comparable. Yeah, totally, yeah,

1373
01:15:42,320 --> 01:15:46,439
Speaker 1: And there's just so much and I wish I knew

1374
01:15:46,479 --> 01:15:49,240
Speaker 1: how to, you know, and they were touching on some

1375
01:15:49,320 --> 01:15:52,240
Speaker 1: of it. But one day, one day, I figure out

1376
01:15:52,240 --> 01:15:54,000
Speaker 1: how to talk about all this ship and I think

1377
01:15:54,000 --> 01:15:55,960
Speaker 1: it's true. I think there's something really interesting for me,

1378
01:15:56,000 --> 01:15:59,280
Speaker 1: at least, I really appreciating Irish because Irish history in

1379
01:15:59,320 --> 01:16:06,720
Speaker 1: the US is a history of migration, colonization, and um

1380
01:16:08,439 --> 01:16:12,120
Speaker 1: a tangential or contested relationship to whiteness, and well that's

1381
01:16:12,160 --> 01:16:15,639
Speaker 1: all historical, right. Irish people today they're definitely white. They

1382
01:16:15,680 --> 01:16:19,240
Speaker 1: are not, you know, uh Irish and Americans not a

1383
01:16:19,280 --> 01:16:23,559
Speaker 1: colonized people. And I think that having that experience threaded

1384
01:16:23,600 --> 01:16:25,920
Speaker 1: through my family and the stories that I was told

1385
01:16:26,320 --> 01:16:28,840
Speaker 1: made I mean, I was raised They would never have

1386
01:16:28,840 --> 01:16:31,080
Speaker 1: said this, but I was raised with an anti colonial

1387
01:16:31,160 --> 01:16:35,240
Speaker 1: outlook that was very strong in both my grandmother and

1388
01:16:35,680 --> 01:16:38,880
Speaker 1: my parents. My mother actually ended up when I was

1389
01:16:39,280 --> 01:16:40,960
Speaker 1: a kid, she went back to school to get a

1390
01:16:40,960 --> 01:16:43,679
Speaker 1: PhD in education. She worked with kids who we would

1391
01:16:43,720 --> 01:16:46,200
Speaker 1: today say we're autistic, but they said they had emotional

1392
01:16:46,240 --> 01:16:49,560
Speaker 1: disabilities when she was doing it. And for her PhD

1393
01:16:49,600 --> 01:16:52,759
Speaker 1: dissertation she ended up studying how the Catholic Church ruined

1394
01:16:52,920 --> 01:16:57,080
Speaker 1: education in Ireland. So for her it was like that

1395
01:16:57,280 --> 01:17:01,080
Speaker 1: education about colonization for the generation above her. They had

1396
01:17:01,080 --> 01:17:03,559
Speaker 1: clung to the church right right, and she then takes

1397
01:17:03,560 --> 01:17:07,080
Speaker 1: that angle and turns it on the church that rules. Yeah,

1398
01:17:07,120 --> 01:17:09,120
Speaker 1: And so for me, I feel like I grew up

1399
01:17:09,880 --> 01:17:13,360
Speaker 1: I didn't have words like anti colonial, and these anti

1400
01:17:13,360 --> 01:17:15,600
Speaker 1: colonial struggles that I learned about weren't connected to a

1401
01:17:15,600 --> 01:17:18,719
Speaker 1: broader sense of an anti colonial project. And my grandmother,

1402
01:17:18,760 --> 01:17:20,360
Speaker 1: like I said, who I shared a bedroom with till

1403
01:17:20,360 --> 01:17:24,280
Speaker 1: I was sixteen, she was a Republican. The politics weren't

1404
01:17:24,280 --> 01:17:25,760
Speaker 1: important to her in that sense. She didn't talk about

1405
01:17:25,760 --> 01:17:27,840
Speaker 1: a lot in the same way you're started talking about.

1406
01:17:28,040 --> 01:17:31,160
Speaker 1: But it still meant that when I started to encounter

1407
01:17:31,280 --> 01:17:34,720
Speaker 1: like post colonial and anti colonial thinkers, you know, like

1408
01:17:34,760 --> 01:17:37,519
Speaker 1: when I started reading Edward Said and Friends fin On

1409
01:17:37,680 --> 01:17:40,200
Speaker 1: and all of these folks who I didn't encounter until college,

1410
01:17:40,520 --> 01:17:43,479
Speaker 1: it made so much sense on a certain level, and

1411
01:17:43,520 --> 01:17:45,840
Speaker 1: it also complicated everything else I learned, right, because I

1412
01:17:45,920 --> 01:17:48,200
Speaker 1: learned so much about how, you know, the the Irish

1413
01:17:48,200 --> 01:17:51,200
Speaker 1: became white and the Irish saved civilization and all of

1414
01:17:51,240 --> 01:17:56,599
Speaker 1: these really creepy answers that are not yeah yeah great.

1415
01:17:56,640 --> 01:17:57,920
Speaker 1: I was just being like, man, I don't know how

1416
01:17:57,920 --> 01:18:01,720
Speaker 1: to grapple it. Then you just that's thank you, that's

1417
01:18:01,760 --> 01:18:04,519
Speaker 1: really useful. Well, I'm lucky. I've got a real simple

1418
01:18:04,560 --> 01:18:06,680
Speaker 1: family tree. It's Ireland and than more Ireland, than more

1419
01:18:06,720 --> 01:18:09,160
Speaker 1: Ireland and than Ireland. And then like one Scottish guy,

1420
01:18:09,200 --> 01:18:13,559
Speaker 1: we don't talk about well, you know, because I feel

1421
01:18:13,560 --> 01:18:18,800
Speaker 1: like there's this exploding brain growing level of understanding where

1422
01:18:18,880 --> 01:18:21,200
Speaker 1: like the like the simple small brain one is like

1423
01:18:21,280 --> 01:18:23,400
Speaker 1: Ireland and Scotland are sort of the same. They're just

1424
01:18:23,520 --> 01:18:25,519
Speaker 1: Gaels or whatever, you know, and then you're like, what

1425
01:18:25,520 --> 01:18:27,400
Speaker 1: are you talking about? They're incredibly different countries and blah

1426
01:18:27,400 --> 01:18:29,519
Speaker 1: blah blah blah blah. And then like reading this, I'm

1427
01:18:29,560 --> 01:18:34,400
Speaker 1: like the Glasgows came over for summer break to go

1428
01:18:34,560 --> 01:18:43,639
Speaker 1: fight in Ireland. Half are just Scottish people. The moment

1429
01:18:43,640 --> 01:18:46,040
Speaker 1: where I learned that there were like three Gaelics and

1430
01:18:46,160 --> 01:18:49,320
Speaker 1: what looks like Scotts, and I say like, oh, these

1431
01:18:49,360 --> 01:18:53,639
Speaker 1: countries are actually really closely connected. Yeah, Well, if anyone

1432
01:18:53,680 --> 01:18:56,479
Speaker 1: wants to hear more of you talking about not this

1433
01:18:56,560 --> 01:18:58,479
Speaker 1: at all. Do you have any any books out that

1434
01:18:58,520 --> 01:19:01,320
Speaker 1: people could go and find. I do have, you know,

1435
01:19:01,400 --> 01:19:03,439
Speaker 1: one or two folks were looking if they want to

1436
01:19:03,479 --> 01:19:05,880
Speaker 1: learn about the queer history of Brooklyn when Brooklyn was queer.

1437
01:19:05,920 --> 01:19:08,760
Speaker 1: If they want to learn about abolition and how it

1438
01:19:08,880 --> 01:19:13,120
Speaker 1: is central to our modern queer politics, how queer black

1439
01:19:13,320 --> 01:19:17,920
Speaker 1: women and trans masculine folks helped develop Greenwich Village as

1440
01:19:17,960 --> 01:19:21,680
Speaker 1: we know it today, how in fact, a prison radically

1441
01:19:21,720 --> 01:19:24,519
Speaker 1: transformed queer history in America. They can pick up my

1442
01:19:24,520 --> 01:19:27,439
Speaker 1: new book, The Women's House of Detention, and if anyone

1443
01:19:27,640 --> 01:19:29,479
Speaker 1: just wants to hear me talk about all of this,

1444
01:19:29,520 --> 01:19:31,919
Speaker 1: ship and a million other things, I have a Patreon

1445
01:19:32,280 --> 01:19:35,519
Speaker 1: and I just post there whatever I'm thinking about something.

1446
01:19:35,680 --> 01:19:37,720
Speaker 1: Mostly it's queer history, but you never know, it might

1447
01:19:37,760 --> 01:19:39,280
Speaker 1: be a picture of my cat or the book I'm

1448
01:19:39,280 --> 01:19:42,519
Speaker 1: reading right now. And if you want to see people,

1449
01:19:42,640 --> 01:19:44,679
Speaker 1: if you want to see anti trans people get triggered,

1450
01:19:44,720 --> 01:19:49,439
Speaker 1: they can follow you on Twitter. Oh god, yeah, I

1451
01:19:49,200 --> 01:19:52,160
Speaker 1: I've sort of like, um, I've stepped back a little

1452
01:19:52,200 --> 01:19:55,160
Speaker 1: bit from Twitter because there are only so many like

1453
01:19:55,520 --> 01:19:59,160
Speaker 1: moronic turfs that I can throw myself against on a

1454
01:19:59,240 --> 01:20:01,680
Speaker 1: regular base, says And it's I feel like I take

1455
01:20:01,680 --> 01:20:04,920
Speaker 1: a specific group, like I have decided that the like

1456
01:20:04,960 --> 01:20:08,360
Speaker 1: the white gay men who think they know everything about

1457
01:20:08,439 --> 01:20:11,920
Speaker 1: gay history because once they watched a single movie and

1458
01:20:11,960 --> 01:20:14,360
Speaker 1: are now like going to tell you about like who

1459
01:20:14,520 --> 01:20:17,200
Speaker 1: is and is not a woman and what how like

1460
01:20:17,600 --> 01:20:19,840
Speaker 1: you know gay people, but those are the people and

1461
01:20:20,000 --> 01:20:22,679
Speaker 1: like those are mine. That's my ministry. Let me let

1462
01:20:22,720 --> 01:20:25,240
Speaker 1: me take them, fight with them, destroy them, and show

1463
01:20:25,280 --> 01:20:27,519
Speaker 1: them how they're wrong. But the rest of the rest

1464
01:20:27,560 --> 01:20:29,880
Speaker 1: of turf Island someone else has got to take care of.

1465
01:20:29,920 --> 01:20:32,200
Speaker 1: But those ones, they just really stick in my cross,

1466
01:20:32,240 --> 01:20:34,960
Speaker 1: so I send them my way. As a trans woman,

1467
01:20:35,000 --> 01:20:37,840
Speaker 1: I specifically appreciate you doing that work among like says

1468
01:20:37,880 --> 01:20:40,280
Speaker 1: gay men, So I truly feel it is my work.

1469
01:20:40,320 --> 01:20:43,320
Speaker 1: It is absolutely important and like I can do it,

1470
01:20:43,360 --> 01:20:46,479
Speaker 1: and they're fucking morons. And often all it takes to

1471
01:20:46,600 --> 01:20:49,880
Speaker 1: like really show them how stupid well show everyone else

1472
01:20:49,880 --> 01:20:51,720
Speaker 1: how stupid they are, is to let them talk to

1473
01:20:51,720 --> 01:20:54,160
Speaker 1: me for like six seconds, because inevitably they say something

1474
01:20:54,200 --> 01:20:59,320
Speaker 1: that is so historically stupid. Just absolutely gotto. One of

1475
01:20:59,360 --> 01:21:02,720
Speaker 1: them fight with him on Twitter, and uh he was like,

1476
01:21:02,840 --> 01:21:06,040
Speaker 1: I'm old enough to remember when the shown will right

1477
01:21:06,439 --> 01:21:08,920
Speaker 1: new were new trend people involved, And I was like,

1478
01:21:08,960 --> 01:21:12,800
Speaker 1: I'm going to give you every citation the first book,

1479
01:21:12,880 --> 01:21:16,000
Speaker 1: the first article for any single thing written about Stonewall,

1480
01:21:16,040 --> 01:21:17,479
Speaker 1: and you're going to see that they're trans women in

1481
01:21:17,520 --> 01:21:19,479
Speaker 1: every single one of them. There you go. It took

1482
01:21:19,520 --> 01:21:22,040
Speaker 1: me about three minutes. He still wouldn't back down, but

1483
01:21:22,080 --> 01:21:25,599
Speaker 1: I felt like, that's my role to publicly humiliate these people.

1484
01:21:26,360 --> 01:21:29,320
Speaker 1: I appreciate that, and I mostly do it from my entertainment,

1485
01:21:29,320 --> 01:21:33,360
Speaker 1: but I'm glad that you appreciate it also. Well, thanks

1486
01:21:33,439 --> 01:21:35,160
Speaker 1: everyone so much, Sophie. Do you have anything you want

1487
01:21:35,200 --> 01:21:38,439
Speaker 1: to plug? My really good friend Jimmy Loftus has a

1488
01:21:38,479 --> 01:21:42,559
Speaker 1: book called raw Dog that is a available for preorder

1489
01:21:42,640 --> 01:21:45,840
Speaker 1: right now, so check out our socials and raw Dog

1490
01:21:46,160 --> 01:21:48,680
Speaker 1: comes out in May. It's about hot dogs. And you

1491
01:21:48,720 --> 01:21:51,240
Speaker 1: have a book that's available for preorder too, don't you, Margaret.

1492
01:21:51,600 --> 01:21:54,840
Speaker 1: I do. It's called Escape from Insul Island and it

1493
01:21:55,080 --> 01:21:57,559
Speaker 1: is available from Strangers and the Tangled Wilderness for pre order.

1494
01:21:57,640 --> 01:22:00,559
Speaker 1: It's Tangled Wilderness dot org. And it's very short. If

1495
01:22:00,560 --> 01:22:02,720
Speaker 1: you have a short attention span, it won't take you

1496
01:22:02,800 --> 01:22:05,840
Speaker 1: all that long to read. It's a novella. Just a

1497
01:22:05,880 --> 01:22:11,919
Speaker 1: short book. Yeah, who short books? Long podcast? Yeah exactly.

1498
01:22:13,080 --> 01:22:15,360
Speaker 1: Thank you for having me on. I just want to say, like, look,

1499
01:22:15,680 --> 01:22:18,439
Speaker 1: it is so exciting to get to sit down and

1500
01:22:18,520 --> 01:22:20,759
Speaker 1: chat with someone who just wants to talk about history.

1501
01:22:20,840 --> 01:22:23,880
Speaker 1: I fucking love this ship. It is nerdy and weird

1502
01:22:24,040 --> 01:22:27,400
Speaker 1: and wonderful and also I don't know, this is just

1503
01:22:27,760 --> 01:22:29,880
Speaker 1: maybe you know too much for the podcast. You want

1504
01:22:29,880 --> 01:22:31,800
Speaker 1: to cut it out, go right ahead, but like, it's

1505
01:22:31,840 --> 01:22:34,559
Speaker 1: really nice to reconnect and to feel like someone who

1506
01:22:34,600 --> 01:22:37,320
Speaker 1: I met in my life fifteen years ago in a

1507
01:22:37,360 --> 01:22:40,920
Speaker 1: totally different place, in a different moment, as we were

1508
01:22:40,960 --> 01:22:46,720
Speaker 1: the cranky old people even then, and to be crankier

1509
01:22:46,920 --> 01:22:50,160
Speaker 1: and older and still doing this ship like it just

1510
01:22:50,360 --> 01:22:52,400
Speaker 1: it feels good. So thank you for having me on.

1511
01:22:52,760 --> 01:22:55,639
Speaker 1: Thank you. I met I met you at the first

1512
01:22:56,360 --> 01:22:58,960
Speaker 1: when I first finally admitted that I was queer and

1513
01:22:58,960 --> 01:23:01,400
Speaker 1: I was dating my first boy was before I admitted

1514
01:23:01,400 --> 01:23:04,960
Speaker 1: I was trans. I met Hugh in that context at

1515
01:23:04,960 --> 01:23:09,120
Speaker 1: a conference. That's not the right of virgin virgin black

1516
01:23:09,120 --> 01:23:14,920
Speaker 1: and pink bashed back back. Yeah, oh my god. Yeah,

1517
01:23:15,320 --> 01:23:18,960
Speaker 1: all right, Well we will talk to you all, well,

1518
01:23:19,040 --> 01:23:24,120
Speaker 1: some of us will next Monday. And thanks thanks for listening,

1519
01:23:25,040 --> 01:23:31,280
Speaker 1: by y'all. By Cool People Who Did Cool Stuff is

1520
01:23:31,280 --> 01:23:34,240
Speaker 1: a production of cool Zone Media. For more podcasts and

1521
01:23:34,280 --> 01:23:37,679
Speaker 1: cool Zone Media, visit our website cool zone media dot com,

1522
01:23:37,760 --> 01:23:39,920
Speaker 1: or check us out on the I Heard Radio app,

1523
01:23:39,960 --> 01:23:42,720
Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.