1 00:00:00,120 --> 00:00:02,279 Speaker 1: I read somewhere that I think it was Sammy Davis 2 00:00:02,320 --> 00:00:06,240 Speaker 1: Junior who had a UFO experience. He did Bill were 3 00:00:06,280 --> 00:00:07,280 Speaker 1: talking with Bill about that? 4 00:00:07,440 --> 00:00:09,320 Speaker 2: Or yeah he did, because we were talking about the 5 00:00:09,400 --> 00:00:11,600 Speaker 2: twenty seventh Day and he goes, yeah, well, you know, 6 00:00:11,840 --> 00:00:14,680 Speaker 2: Sammy saw one, and I was like, what tell me 7 00:00:14,760 --> 00:00:18,000 Speaker 2: about it? And that image of Sammy Davis Junior seeing 8 00:00:18,000 --> 00:00:21,799 Speaker 2: a UFO is really quite amusing. He told Bill about it, 9 00:00:21,840 --> 00:00:24,160 Speaker 2: but he told many other people. He said he had 10 00:00:24,200 --> 00:00:26,920 Speaker 2: seen a group of small silver discs, and this was 11 00:00:26,960 --> 00:00:30,080 Speaker 2: the early fifties, not a single light, but multiple lights, 12 00:00:30,400 --> 00:00:33,600 Speaker 2: multiple objects, and he described them as hovering and darting 13 00:00:33,640 --> 00:00:36,440 Speaker 2: and doing things that aircraft don't do. And then this 14 00:00:36,520 --> 00:00:39,080 Speaker 2: is the word that Bill used, and then poof, they 15 00:00:39,080 --> 00:00:41,479 Speaker 2: were gone. But that sounds pretty familiar to a lot 16 00:00:41,520 --> 00:01:04,760 Speaker 2: of the testimony we get these days. I'm Brice Sable. 17 00:01:04,840 --> 00:01:07,679 Speaker 2: Have you ever wondered if there's a secret connection between 18 00:01:07,680 --> 00:01:08,959 Speaker 2: Hollywood and UFOs? 19 00:01:09,280 --> 00:01:12,199 Speaker 1: And I'm Brent Friedman. You are listening to sound, light 20 00:01:12,400 --> 00:01:13,280 Speaker 1: and frequency. 21 00:01:13,640 --> 00:01:15,800 Speaker 2: In this episode, we'll be taking a visit to the 22 00:01:15,800 --> 00:01:19,280 Speaker 2: Magic Kingdom and finding flying saucers. 23 00:01:19,000 --> 00:01:21,000 Speaker 1: And we're going to tell you a story about the 24 00:01:21,040 --> 00:01:24,720 Speaker 1: American TV network that cut the mic on a live 25 00:01:24,800 --> 00:01:30,759 Speaker 1: broadcast about UFO investigations. 26 00:01:34,280 --> 00:01:37,080 Speaker 2: So anyway, last week, I'm taking a peloton class with 27 00:01:37,160 --> 00:01:40,320 Speaker 2: Cody Rigsby, and now the guy is usually entertaining enough 28 00:01:40,360 --> 00:01:43,160 Speaker 2: to get me through forty five minutes on a stationary bike, 29 00:01:43,240 --> 00:01:45,520 Speaker 2: but I kind of realize I'm not listening to a 30 00:01:45,520 --> 00:01:48,000 Speaker 2: word the man is saying because my mind's already locked 31 00:01:48,040 --> 00:01:50,240 Speaker 2: in on this episode we're doing. But I couldn't get 32 00:01:50,240 --> 00:01:54,120 Speaker 2: out of my head was this Disney and UFOs last 33 00:01:54,160 --> 00:01:56,960 Speaker 2: episode we got up to nineteen fifty three when the 34 00:01:57,080 --> 00:02:01,480 Speaker 2: CIA's Robertson panel actually recommended the UFO subject be made less, 35 00:02:01,800 --> 00:02:04,680 Speaker 2: i don't know, respectable, and they even floated the idea 36 00:02:04,720 --> 00:02:09,359 Speaker 2: of recruiting mass media, specifically including Disney, to help do it. 37 00:02:09,480 --> 00:02:12,360 Speaker 2: And that was seventy three years ago. But here's the 38 00:02:12,440 --> 00:02:15,720 Speaker 2: thing that hit me while I was peddling away. Disney 39 00:02:16,040 --> 00:02:20,279 Speaker 2: isn't just a historical footnote. Disney is the current epicenter 40 00:02:20,320 --> 00:02:24,080 Speaker 2: of this because today Disney doesn't merely touch alien life, 41 00:02:24,120 --> 00:02:28,760 Speaker 2: they industrialize it. Besides Disney branded content, they also own Marvel, 42 00:02:29,000 --> 00:02:32,520 Speaker 2: where the cosmos is packed with non human intelligences. They 43 00:02:32,560 --> 00:02:35,720 Speaker 2: own Star Wars with a canteena full of aliens in 44 00:02:35,760 --> 00:02:39,080 Speaker 2: every era, and with the Fox Library folded in, They've 45 00:02:39,120 --> 00:02:43,240 Speaker 2: got Avatar, they've got Alien Planet of the Apes and 46 00:02:43,480 --> 00:02:46,400 Speaker 2: X Files. That's a lot of franchises in the broader orbits. 47 00:02:46,440 --> 00:02:49,040 Speaker 2: So Brent, maybe it was just a case of surging 48 00:02:49,080 --> 00:02:51,480 Speaker 2: and dorphins. I don't know, but I've never really looked 49 00:02:51,480 --> 00:02:53,240 Speaker 2: at it this way. But if you go to your 50 00:02:53,240 --> 00:02:55,280 Speaker 2: Disney Plus app, you're going to find a lot of 51 00:02:55,320 --> 00:02:58,400 Speaker 2: options that deal with non human intelligence. What do you 52 00:02:58,400 --> 00:02:59,320 Speaker 2: think we should make of that? 53 00:02:59,520 --> 00:03:03,440 Speaker 1: Well, I think there's a lot of circumstantial evidence that 54 00:03:03,600 --> 00:03:07,359 Speaker 1: says that's not a coincidence, and there's even more actual, 55 00:03:07,680 --> 00:03:12,919 Speaker 1: hard evidence that says there was conversations and possibly some 56 00:03:13,240 --> 00:03:18,399 Speaker 1: type of deal made between the Robertson panel and Disney 57 00:03:18,800 --> 00:03:22,720 Speaker 1: way back when. And you could say, well, that was then, 58 00:03:22,919 --> 00:03:26,600 Speaker 1: this is now. The obviously Walt Disney is no longer around, 59 00:03:27,160 --> 00:03:31,280 Speaker 1: so whatever deal was made back in the fifties, but institutionally, 60 00:03:31,639 --> 00:03:36,040 Speaker 1: I think there's a reason to believe that maybe whatever 61 00:03:36,200 --> 00:03:40,720 Speaker 1: was agreed upon is still in force. It's fascinating because 62 00:03:40,760 --> 00:03:43,440 Speaker 1: as we've done the research for this episode, you keep 63 00:03:43,440 --> 00:03:47,440 Speaker 1: turning up things post Robertson panel, and just to rewind 64 00:03:47,480 --> 00:03:50,600 Speaker 1: to the Robertson panel, and remember the CIA sponsored it. 65 00:03:50,600 --> 00:03:53,560 Speaker 1: It's nineteen fifty three, and they start talking in their 66 00:03:53,600 --> 00:03:57,720 Speaker 1: four day I guess get together about an educational program 67 00:03:57,760 --> 00:03:59,720 Speaker 1: which is going to have two aims training and they 68 00:03:59,760 --> 00:04:02,080 Speaker 1: act actually use the word debunking. I think it's the 69 00:04:02,080 --> 00:04:05,800 Speaker 1: first time debunking has really shown up. And they say 70 00:04:05,800 --> 00:04:10,160 Speaker 1: we should use television and motion pictures and they list 71 00:04:10,240 --> 00:04:14,840 Speaker 1: potential partners and it specifically lists Disney Walt Disney Inc. 72 00:04:14,960 --> 00:04:19,760 Speaker 1: Animated Cartoons, O thing. It mentions his Jam Handy Company, 73 00:04:20,160 --> 00:04:22,760 Speaker 1: and I didn't even know what that was, but they 74 00:04:22,800 --> 00:04:26,359 Speaker 1: were famous for World War II training films. So the 75 00:04:26,480 --> 00:04:28,599 Speaker 1: Robertson panel, you know, it was kind of looking back 76 00:04:28,640 --> 00:04:31,880 Speaker 1: on World War Two, but also looking ahead to Disney. 77 00:04:32,080 --> 00:04:35,520 Speaker 1: Remember Disneyland doesn't open for two more years, so Disney 78 00:04:35,520 --> 00:04:39,279 Speaker 1: at this point is just a content provider. So what 79 00:04:39,480 --> 00:04:44,120 Speaker 1: happened is in the aftermath of the panel, there's a 80 00:04:44,279 --> 00:04:48,760 Speaker 1: guy at Disney top animator Ward Kimball, and he starts 81 00:04:48,839 --> 00:04:52,400 Speaker 1: talking or other. They try to put together a documentary 82 00:04:52,960 --> 00:04:57,800 Speaker 1: that'll be mentioning the whole UFO area. And we don't 83 00:04:57,839 --> 00:05:01,320 Speaker 1: hear about this till nineteen seventy nine. Stanton Friedman actually 84 00:05:01,360 --> 00:05:05,719 Speaker 1: heard and testified that Ward Kimbolt started talking about this 85 00:05:05,839 --> 00:05:08,839 Speaker 1: and at the time he was saying that Disney was 86 00:05:08,880 --> 00:05:12,480 Speaker 1: going to get real UFO footage from the government. And 87 00:05:12,600 --> 00:05:15,480 Speaker 1: what happened to that? Can you even imagine? I can't. 88 00:05:15,720 --> 00:05:18,960 Speaker 2: And they didn't get it. That's all you need to imagine. 89 00:05:18,680 --> 00:05:21,599 Speaker 1: No footage, Yeah, because I feel like if they had 90 00:05:21,600 --> 00:05:24,840 Speaker 1: gotten footage, we might be in a completely different place 91 00:05:24,880 --> 00:05:27,680 Speaker 1: at this point in time. But I think step back 92 00:05:27,720 --> 00:05:31,520 Speaker 1: for a second and consider what was the motivation of 93 00:05:31,640 --> 00:05:34,760 Speaker 1: the Robertson panel to talk to Disney if it was 94 00:05:34,839 --> 00:05:40,080 Speaker 1: not to either a start a disclosure program, right to 95 00:05:40,200 --> 00:05:46,120 Speaker 1: soften up the general public, or some type of disinformation meaning, Hey, 96 00:05:46,160 --> 00:05:49,880 Speaker 1: wait a minute, this whole UFO flying saucer story is 97 00:05:50,000 --> 00:05:53,640 Speaker 1: getting out of our control. Let's take back control by 98 00:05:53,720 --> 00:05:58,440 Speaker 1: changing the narrative. And let's do that with agreements from 99 00:05:58,520 --> 00:06:02,280 Speaker 1: the people who are making stories that are shaping people's minds. 100 00:06:06,080 --> 00:06:09,000 Speaker 2: Well, just for clarity on that whole thing, Kimball, Ward 101 00:06:09,080 --> 00:06:12,200 Speaker 2: Kimball said he was approached by people who were tied 102 00:06:12,200 --> 00:06:15,720 Speaker 2: into Douglas aircraft kind of interesting and you'll love this 103 00:06:15,760 --> 00:06:19,400 Speaker 2: one the Office of Naval Research. So there's then they 104 00:06:19,440 --> 00:06:22,919 Speaker 2: made again reaching out to say, hey, we need to 105 00:06:22,960 --> 00:06:26,039 Speaker 2: control this narrative, and they were going to have him 106 00:06:26,040 --> 00:06:29,719 Speaker 2: do a UFO picture. Now, admittedly that one didn't come 107 00:06:29,760 --> 00:06:31,640 Speaker 2: together in the way that they wanted to do it. 108 00:06:31,680 --> 00:06:35,000 Speaker 2: They wanted to end with actual footage. They didn't get it, 109 00:06:35,160 --> 00:06:38,919 Speaker 2: but they did have a Disney Tomorrowland series on I 110 00:06:38,920 --> 00:06:42,279 Speaker 2: think one of the mini documentaries they did that had 111 00:06:42,400 --> 00:06:45,640 Speaker 2: this great animation that Kimball had done. Also ended with 112 00:06:45,680 --> 00:06:48,440 Speaker 2: a bunch of flying saucers at the end, so they 113 00:06:48,440 --> 00:06:52,280 Speaker 2: were in the mode. But they were dismissive of that. 114 00:06:52,760 --> 00:06:54,760 Speaker 2: But I got to tell you it may be harder 115 00:06:54,800 --> 00:06:57,360 Speaker 2: for us to get into what they did or did 116 00:06:57,400 --> 00:07:00,760 Speaker 2: not do in the fifties. But man, in the nineties, 117 00:07:00,880 --> 00:07:04,240 Speaker 2: there are two whopper events that kind of blow your mind. Right. 118 00:07:04,360 --> 00:07:08,679 Speaker 1: So we've got the Disney UFO conference in nineteen ninety five, 119 00:07:08,960 --> 00:07:12,600 Speaker 1: and then we've got the Alien Encounters experience in the 120 00:07:12,640 --> 00:07:17,240 Speaker 1: New Tomorrowland, also from nineteen ninety five. And interestingly, as 121 00:07:17,280 --> 00:07:20,560 Speaker 1: we said, by this point, Walt Disney rest his soul 122 00:07:20,760 --> 00:07:24,120 Speaker 1: had passed away and there was a completely new chairman 123 00:07:24,240 --> 00:07:26,800 Speaker 1: of Disney, Michael Eisner, who will come back to in 124 00:07:26,840 --> 00:07:28,920 Speaker 1: a moment in terms of how he may play a 125 00:07:28,960 --> 00:07:30,360 Speaker 1: part in all of this arrangement. 126 00:07:30,480 --> 00:07:33,000 Speaker 2: We'll do the conference. Last, Let's do what was called 127 00:07:33,080 --> 00:07:37,160 Speaker 2: Alien Encounters from New Tomorrowland. This is nineteen ninety five, folks, 128 00:07:37,240 --> 00:07:42,240 Speaker 2: and this was a documentary that was commissioned by Disney 129 00:07:42,920 --> 00:07:45,440 Speaker 2: on the idea that they were opening up a new 130 00:07:45,520 --> 00:07:48,880 Speaker 2: ride in Orlando. And it was called The Extra terror 131 00:07:49,120 --> 00:07:55,040 Speaker 2: Restrial Alien Encounter Terror spelled ter in all caps, okay, 132 00:07:55,640 --> 00:07:59,000 Speaker 2: And it's a forty minute runtime and as I understand it, 133 00:07:59,040 --> 00:08:01,320 Speaker 2: just so you know, this wasn't documentary that was going 134 00:08:01,360 --> 00:08:03,840 Speaker 2: to be put out over the airwaves or anything. It 135 00:08:03,880 --> 00:08:06,320 Speaker 2: was for the ride. And yet I got to tell 136 00:08:06,360 --> 00:08:09,160 Speaker 2: you I got a couple of quotes from Brent. This 137 00:08:09,200 --> 00:08:13,000 Speaker 2: is mind blowing because, Okay, Robert Urich, who maybe not 138 00:08:13,080 --> 00:08:16,040 Speaker 2: everybody knows today, but he was a big deal back then, 139 00:08:16,560 --> 00:08:19,200 Speaker 2: and he is the host of it, and he says 140 00:08:19,640 --> 00:08:23,240 Speaker 2: in this documentary that would again meet all the people 141 00:08:23,360 --> 00:08:26,400 Speaker 2: as they got in line to go see this new ride, 142 00:08:26,400 --> 00:08:29,400 Speaker 2: and beyond it, Robert Eurex says, I guess this is 143 00:08:29,440 --> 00:08:31,360 Speaker 2: what they would play, why they were holding. 144 00:08:31,000 --> 00:08:33,319 Speaker 1: People before they went on exactly at it. 145 00:08:33,640 --> 00:08:36,720 Speaker 2: So here's what Urik says. He says quote. For nearly 146 00:08:36,760 --> 00:08:40,959 Speaker 2: fifty years, officials have been documenting routine alien encounters here 147 00:08:41,000 --> 00:08:44,160 Speaker 2: on Earth. More than one alien craft crashed and was 148 00:08:44,240 --> 00:08:48,440 Speaker 2: recovered for secret US military research. The most famous case 149 00:08:48,480 --> 00:08:51,679 Speaker 2: took place in July of nineteen forty seven, just outside 150 00:08:51,720 --> 00:08:55,560 Speaker 2: the community of Roswell, New Mexico. Indications are the government, 151 00:08:55,679 --> 00:08:59,520 Speaker 2: military and scientific leaders will soon release nearly a half 152 00:08:59,559 --> 00:09:05,439 Speaker 2: century of official documentation of ongoing alien encounters on Earth. Okay, 153 00:09:05,920 --> 00:09:09,280 Speaker 2: admittedly it's the Gin people up for the ride, but 154 00:09:09,400 --> 00:09:11,560 Speaker 2: that's pretty dramatic stuff and it kind of fits in 155 00:09:11,600 --> 00:09:12,680 Speaker 2: with what we think today. 156 00:09:13,440 --> 00:09:16,680 Speaker 1: And who approved that text that feels like they're reading 157 00:09:16,679 --> 00:09:20,040 Speaker 1: a news briefing, Well, I think Eisner approved it. 158 00:09:20,080 --> 00:09:22,160 Speaker 2: And the reason I say that is I got one 159 00:09:22,200 --> 00:09:25,760 Speaker 2: more great quote for you. Eisner insisted on doing the 160 00:09:25,800 --> 00:09:29,200 Speaker 2: intro to this thing. Okay, so before this quote that 161 00:09:29,240 --> 00:09:31,800 Speaker 2: I just read you from Robert Urich, this is what 162 00:09:31,960 --> 00:09:35,760 Speaker 2: Michael Eisner, who is running Disney, has to say. He 163 00:09:35,840 --> 00:09:37,160 Speaker 2: says this quote and. 164 00:09:37,120 --> 00:09:39,520 Speaker 1: Wait, let me just give you some context for everything. Okay, 165 00:09:39,760 --> 00:09:43,560 Speaker 1: in the nineties, Disney was arguably the most powerful and 166 00:09:43,640 --> 00:09:48,400 Speaker 1: successful movie studio. So this is the chairman or the 167 00:09:48,400 --> 00:09:52,160 Speaker 1: CEO president of Disney, the person running the show at Disney, 168 00:09:52,640 --> 00:09:56,920 Speaker 1: the most powerful person in Hollywood. Now go ahead, Okay, Well, 169 00:09:57,120 --> 00:09:59,160 Speaker 1: we'd also know Eisner had a bit of an ego. 170 00:09:59,200 --> 00:10:01,520 Speaker 1: I mean he liked to on camera and be interviewed 171 00:10:01,559 --> 00:10:03,360 Speaker 1: and things like that. That's not a knock on him 172 00:10:03,400 --> 00:10:05,920 Speaker 1: as a human being, but it might explain what he said, Hey, 173 00:10:05,960 --> 00:10:08,520 Speaker 1: I'd like to do the intro because he figured millions 174 00:10:08,520 --> 00:10:10,439 Speaker 1: of people every year were going to be getting on 175 00:10:10,480 --> 00:10:12,440 Speaker 1: this thing. It's what he said, though. 176 00:10:12,200 --> 00:10:15,719 Speaker 2: Because he participated in this, and clearly nobody asked to 177 00:10:15,760 --> 00:10:18,000 Speaker 2: say anything they don't want to say. I mean, if 178 00:10:18,040 --> 00:10:20,440 Speaker 2: you put dialogue in front of an actor, they don't 179 00:10:20,440 --> 00:10:22,160 Speaker 2: have to say it unless they want to. This is 180 00:10:22,160 --> 00:10:26,240 Speaker 2: what Eisener said. Quote at a military installation somewhere in 181 00:10:26,280 --> 00:10:28,840 Speaker 2: the United States. There are those who believe that the 182 00:10:28,880 --> 00:10:32,520 Speaker 2: government is hiding the remains of an alien spacecraft that 183 00:10:32,640 --> 00:10:36,760 Speaker 2: mysteriously crashed to Earth. With more and more scientific evidence 184 00:10:36,800 --> 00:10:41,120 Speaker 2: of alien encounters and UFO sidings, the idea of creatures 185 00:10:41,160 --> 00:10:45,600 Speaker 2: from another planet be as far fetched as we once thought. 186 00:10:46,000 --> 00:10:50,120 Speaker 1: Wow, yeah, that's pretty staggering. And I think so, now, 187 00:10:50,200 --> 00:10:55,560 Speaker 1: let's examine what this ride, this experience actually was. It was, 188 00:10:55,679 --> 00:10:59,560 Speaker 1: by all accounts, not Disney at all. It was, as 189 00:10:59,840 --> 00:11:04,679 Speaker 1: you mentioned, it was a terror, an extra terrestrial experience 190 00:11:05,080 --> 00:11:08,400 Speaker 1: that many parents felt was way too intense for kids. 191 00:11:08,960 --> 00:11:12,720 Speaker 1: It was all about trying to transport to the leader 192 00:11:12,760 --> 00:11:16,240 Speaker 1: of some alien race down to Earth. Something goes wrong 193 00:11:16,320 --> 00:11:19,400 Speaker 1: and a terrible monster comes. An alien monster comes in 194 00:11:19,400 --> 00:11:22,520 Speaker 1: to the theater and starts wreaking havoc, and people are 195 00:11:22,559 --> 00:11:26,120 Speaker 1: experiencing it behind them, They're feeling it breathing down their necks, 196 00:11:26,120 --> 00:11:30,160 Speaker 1: and kids were crying. So again, if we think about 197 00:11:30,360 --> 00:11:36,120 Speaker 1: the possibility that there was some direction to embrace alien 198 00:11:36,200 --> 00:11:40,120 Speaker 1: storytelling back in the fifties, this was the end result 199 00:11:40,200 --> 00:11:44,040 Speaker 1: of it, all those years later, something that felt very 200 00:11:44,120 --> 00:11:48,280 Speaker 1: real and very terrifying for the audience done at Disney, 201 00:11:48,320 --> 00:11:51,560 Speaker 1: which feels just complete counter programming to everything else that 202 00:11:51,559 --> 00:11:52,679 Speaker 1: they had there at the park. 203 00:11:52,800 --> 00:11:56,079 Speaker 2: And let's remember this is forty two years later after 204 00:11:56,120 --> 00:11:58,959 Speaker 2: the Robertson panel. So I don't know what that means, 205 00:11:59,000 --> 00:12:01,480 Speaker 2: because it could easily mean that they if they were 206 00:12:01,480 --> 00:12:03,520 Speaker 2: doing it then they'd been doing it all along, But 207 00:12:03,600 --> 00:12:05,880 Speaker 2: we don't have a lot of cases about that. Or 208 00:12:05,880 --> 00:12:08,680 Speaker 2: it could be nobody really did what that Robertson panel 209 00:12:08,760 --> 00:12:11,600 Speaker 2: wanted because they wanted it. They just did it because 210 00:12:11,840 --> 00:12:15,840 Speaker 2: they thought aliens were good box office or something. I suppose. 211 00:12:16,360 --> 00:12:19,600 Speaker 2: But it is kind of fishy about that because that 212 00:12:19,760 --> 00:12:23,719 Speaker 2: documentary only mentions the ride for five minutes at the end, 213 00:12:23,800 --> 00:12:27,200 Speaker 2: So it's thirty five minutes of UFO stuff and five 214 00:12:27,240 --> 00:12:29,640 Speaker 2: minutes about the ride. Kind of interesting, but maybe they 215 00:12:29,640 --> 00:12:32,720 Speaker 2: were hiding the monster anyway. It only aired in a 216 00:12:32,760 --> 00:12:36,280 Speaker 2: handful of US cities because they did air it at 217 00:12:36,360 --> 00:12:39,600 Speaker 2: random times on a few selected dates in February March 218 00:12:39,600 --> 00:12:43,000 Speaker 2: of ninety five, and it had no advanced notice. Okay, 219 00:12:43,280 --> 00:12:46,120 Speaker 2: so if you think about it, who does that? Right? 220 00:12:46,160 --> 00:12:50,319 Speaker 2: Who does that? And I believe it's the director of it? 221 00:12:50,559 --> 00:12:55,360 Speaker 2: He said quote an incredibly odd marketing strategy, considering its 222 00:12:55,360 --> 00:12:58,480 Speaker 2: purpose was to promote a major theme park ride for families. 223 00:12:58,600 --> 00:13:01,160 Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean their approach was let's bury the film 224 00:13:01,400 --> 00:13:03,760 Speaker 1: right essentially, But well, then why did they make it 225 00:13:03,760 --> 00:13:04,439 Speaker 1: in the first place? 226 00:13:04,559 --> 00:13:04,840 Speaker 2: Right? Like? 227 00:13:04,880 --> 00:13:07,480 Speaker 1: It raises a lot of questions. 228 00:13:07,280 --> 00:13:10,200 Speaker 2: It sure does. But we've got another example though of 229 00:13:10,240 --> 00:13:15,440 Speaker 2: where Disney has done something absolutely insane or at least unexplainable. 230 00:13:15,920 --> 00:13:18,800 Speaker 2: And that's right after this or right around the time 231 00:13:18,840 --> 00:13:22,600 Speaker 2: of this. Also in nineteen ninety five, they decide to 232 00:13:22,640 --> 00:13:26,640 Speaker 2: have a UFO conference in Orlando. It's January of ninety five, 233 00:13:27,240 --> 00:13:30,800 Speaker 2: and this was a two week long conference. Now, you've 234 00:13:30,840 --> 00:13:33,439 Speaker 2: been to conferences for UFOs. I've been to them too. 235 00:13:33,440 --> 00:13:36,600 Speaker 2: They're usually three or four days at best, and there 236 00:13:36,600 --> 00:13:39,120 Speaker 2: are people that speak, but there's usually a whole lot 237 00:13:39,120 --> 00:13:41,840 Speaker 2: of people there to listen to them, right, That's how 238 00:13:41,880 --> 00:13:44,840 Speaker 2: it goes down. Not this time. They had a huge 239 00:13:44,920 --> 00:13:47,840 Speaker 2: lineup of people that they brought in there, and a 240 00:13:47,880 --> 00:13:50,840 Speaker 2: guy named I believe Don Ecker was the organizer. He 241 00:13:50,880 --> 00:13:53,200 Speaker 2: had been asked by Disney to do it. Ecker was 242 00:13:53,320 --> 00:13:56,480 Speaker 2: very involved in the UFO topic. They brought in guys 243 00:13:56,520 --> 00:14:01,439 Speaker 2: like Bud Hopkins, George Knapp, Don Schmidt, than Randall Sitchen. 244 00:14:01,520 --> 00:14:05,000 Speaker 2: They brought in, Okay, two weeks, all these folks there. 245 00:14:05,120 --> 00:14:08,800 Speaker 2: There's basically two conferences. Week one conference, week two conference. 246 00:14:09,040 --> 00:14:12,280 Speaker 2: They did not advertise it, right, there was no advertising. Now, 247 00:14:12,360 --> 00:14:14,760 Speaker 2: I don't know of any conference that I've ever been 248 00:14:14,800 --> 00:14:17,040 Speaker 2: to that didn't say and by the way, send me 249 00:14:17,120 --> 00:14:20,480 Speaker 2: your bio and send me your URLs because we got 250 00:14:20,480 --> 00:14:22,960 Speaker 2: a promo the hell out of this, because we won't 251 00:14:22,960 --> 00:14:26,080 Speaker 2: make any money, all right. So Disney spent a ton 252 00:14:26,120 --> 00:14:29,320 Speaker 2: of money because they had to provide airfare, room and 253 00:14:29,360 --> 00:14:32,000 Speaker 2: board and meals for all these people for two weeks, 254 00:14:32,200 --> 00:14:35,960 Speaker 2: all right, according to Ecker, And this just blows my mind. 255 00:14:36,000 --> 00:14:39,360 Speaker 2: But Disney never gave it an ounce of promotion, and 256 00:14:39,960 --> 00:14:43,600 Speaker 2: at best, the number of people in the audience was 257 00:14:43,680 --> 00:14:47,600 Speaker 2: never more than ten or twelve people. Wow, it's kind 258 00:14:47,600 --> 00:14:51,360 Speaker 2: of crazy. And the only thing I'm not even sure 259 00:14:51,680 --> 00:14:53,360 Speaker 2: I'm gonna let you take a crack at that. What 260 00:14:53,400 --> 00:14:55,240 Speaker 2: would explain that in your view? 261 00:14:55,520 --> 00:15:00,360 Speaker 1: Either A, they had an intention that then somebody forced 262 00:15:00,400 --> 00:15:02,920 Speaker 1: their hand and said kill that thing, and it was 263 00:15:02,960 --> 00:15:05,560 Speaker 1: too late, so they kept it alive, but they did 264 00:15:05,600 --> 00:15:09,240 Speaker 1: not support it in any way, which is one viable explanation. 265 00:15:09,480 --> 00:15:13,680 Speaker 1: The other explanation is they were actually trying to make 266 00:15:13,920 --> 00:15:17,800 Speaker 1: these people that were very interested in the topic feel stupid, right. 267 00:15:18,360 --> 00:15:20,840 Speaker 1: They were trying to send a very subtle message that 268 00:15:20,880 --> 00:15:22,360 Speaker 1: you're going to come all the way here for this 269 00:15:22,440 --> 00:15:24,920 Speaker 1: big conference and nothing's going to happen because there is 270 00:15:25,000 --> 00:15:28,360 Speaker 1: nothing about the UFO phenomenon, I'm worth talking about. 271 00:15:28,680 --> 00:15:32,320 Speaker 2: That's a fascinating and good guess. By the way, the 272 00:15:32,360 --> 00:15:35,200 Speaker 2: laid author Robbie Graham, who wrote the really terrific book 273 00:15:35,240 --> 00:15:38,400 Speaker 2: Silver Screen Saucers, when he was talking about this incident, 274 00:15:38,520 --> 00:15:40,760 Speaker 2: he also was kind of a guest that like, well, 275 00:15:40,800 --> 00:15:43,680 Speaker 2: I don't what would truly explain this. All he could 276 00:15:43,680 --> 00:15:46,320 Speaker 2: do was speculate, which is what we're doing here. But 277 00:15:46,400 --> 00:15:49,360 Speaker 2: he thought it might be an orchestrated chance for intelligence 278 00:15:49,480 --> 00:15:53,440 Speaker 2: agencies to assemble the leading UFO figures under one roof, 279 00:15:53,480 --> 00:15:56,160 Speaker 2: because this is pre internet right, yes, to take the 280 00:15:56,200 --> 00:15:59,320 Speaker 2: current pulse of the field. And there is a certain 281 00:15:59,440 --> 00:16:02,680 Speaker 2: validity in that guess, I think, because obviously, if you 282 00:16:02,680 --> 00:16:04,680 Speaker 2: want to take a pulse of the field right now, 283 00:16:05,000 --> 00:16:09,040 Speaker 2: just go on x go on Reddit. The field not 284 00:16:09,120 --> 00:16:12,040 Speaker 2: only can have its pulse taken, it's demanding to have 285 00:16:12,120 --> 00:16:14,440 Speaker 2: its pulse taken right So you didn't need to you 286 00:16:14,440 --> 00:16:16,560 Speaker 2: don't need to do that today. So I guess I 287 00:16:16,600 --> 00:16:20,160 Speaker 2: could understand that it would be one way to find 288 00:16:20,160 --> 00:16:23,400 Speaker 2: out what they're thinking or hear their best shot. But 289 00:16:23,720 --> 00:16:26,240 Speaker 2: several people went home early. They were just like, what 290 00:16:26,400 --> 00:16:29,520 Speaker 2: is going on here? And so we have two instances. 291 00:16:29,560 --> 00:16:33,640 Speaker 2: Then okay, Disney puts the documentary out but does nothing 292 00:16:33,680 --> 00:16:37,280 Speaker 2: to promote it at all. Then Disney right near the 293 00:16:37,320 --> 00:16:40,480 Speaker 2: same time holds a two week conference of UFO people 294 00:16:40,880 --> 00:16:42,560 Speaker 2: and doesn't tell anybody about it. 295 00:16:42,680 --> 00:16:46,440 Speaker 1: Yeah, it's mind boggling. And obviously there's many different ways 296 00:16:46,480 --> 00:16:49,360 Speaker 1: to interpret it, as we've just discussed, and I think 297 00:16:49,560 --> 00:16:52,000 Speaker 1: at this point it's probably a good moment to step 298 00:16:52,040 --> 00:16:54,480 Speaker 1: back open the aperture a little bit and say, it 299 00:16:54,560 --> 00:16:58,920 Speaker 1: wasn't just Disney that was doing interesting things in the 300 00:16:58,920 --> 00:17:02,360 Speaker 1: wake of the Robertson panel. The wider view of Hollywood 301 00:17:02,360 --> 00:17:06,080 Speaker 1: at that time was that they were making some pretty 302 00:17:06,240 --> 00:17:10,280 Speaker 1: crazy UFO alien movies, a lot of them. I mean 303 00:17:10,440 --> 00:17:13,160 Speaker 1: was that was a real kind of golden era for 304 00:17:13,400 --> 00:17:16,600 Speaker 1: alien and UFO movies. But you know, when I look 305 00:17:16,640 --> 00:17:18,199 Speaker 1: at them, when I look at all these titles and 306 00:17:18,240 --> 00:17:19,800 Speaker 1: I look at what they were about, because I haven't 307 00:17:19,840 --> 00:17:23,160 Speaker 1: seen a lot of them, there is no real commonalities 308 00:17:23,200 --> 00:17:26,399 Speaker 1: in the narrative messaging. So it wasn't like there was 309 00:17:26,440 --> 00:17:29,760 Speaker 1: a mandate given and everyone just adopted it. And the 310 00:17:29,800 --> 00:17:32,560 Speaker 1: stories are the storylines are really all over the place. 311 00:17:32,800 --> 00:17:36,040 Speaker 1: But what you really get is that UFOs and aliens 312 00:17:36,040 --> 00:17:38,920 Speaker 1: are being used more as a metaphor for other fears 313 00:17:39,240 --> 00:17:41,840 Speaker 1: at the times, So you've got movies that are really 314 00:17:41,880 --> 00:17:46,040 Speaker 1: representing nuclear fears, like Killers from Space in nineteen fifty four, 315 00:17:46,359 --> 00:17:48,480 Speaker 1: which is a low budget sci fi film about a 316 00:17:48,520 --> 00:17:52,479 Speaker 1: scientist who survives a mysterious plane crash only to discover 317 00:17:52,600 --> 00:17:56,239 Speaker 1: aliens have resurrected him to steal atomic secrets for an 318 00:17:56,240 --> 00:18:00,480 Speaker 1: Earth invasion using giant insects and reptiles grown with the 319 00:18:00,600 --> 00:18:05,120 Speaker 1: radiation absorbed from our own atomic bomb tests. Right, it's 320 00:18:05,119 --> 00:18:08,040 Speaker 1: just a huge cautionary tale. But then there was the 321 00:18:08,119 --> 00:18:10,520 Speaker 1: communism fear as we were feeling at that time with 322 00:18:10,560 --> 00:18:13,520 Speaker 1: the Red Scare invasion of the Body Snatchers in nineteen 323 00:18:13,600 --> 00:18:17,520 Speaker 1: fifty six about the extraterrestrial invasion where the alien spores 324 00:18:17,560 --> 00:18:22,000 Speaker 1: from space grow into large seed pods, each one capable 325 00:18:22,000 --> 00:18:25,679 Speaker 1: of producing a visually identical copy of a human. And 326 00:18:25,720 --> 00:18:29,560 Speaker 1: these duplicates, however, are devoid of all human emotion. A 327 00:18:29,600 --> 00:18:33,919 Speaker 1: local doctor uncovers this quiet invasion and attempts to stop it. 328 00:18:34,359 --> 00:18:36,640 Speaker 1: This is of course, where the term pod people comes 329 00:18:36,680 --> 00:18:40,720 Speaker 1: from in pop culture to refer to these emotionless humans. 330 00:18:41,040 --> 00:18:44,600 Speaker 1: But then you also Again, it gets even crazier when 331 00:18:44,640 --> 00:18:46,880 Speaker 1: you look at some of the other movies that were 332 00:18:46,880 --> 00:18:49,840 Speaker 1: coming out at that time. Nineteen fifty six, Planeted of 333 00:18:49,880 --> 00:18:53,960 Speaker 1: the Vampires, which is basically zombies in space. It conquered 334 00:18:53,960 --> 00:18:58,520 Speaker 1: the world. This is great. It concerns a bat winged 335 00:18:58,680 --> 00:19:04,000 Speaker 1: triangular alien named Ballulah or Beulah from the planet Venus 336 00:19:04,040 --> 00:19:06,960 Speaker 1: that uses a mind controlling device to turn people into 337 00:19:06,960 --> 00:19:09,920 Speaker 1: a motionless slaves so it can take control of the Earth. 338 00:19:15,480 --> 00:19:18,760 Speaker 2: That sounds like a documentary. Now. You know what's interesting though, people, 339 00:19:19,000 --> 00:19:21,240 Speaker 2: First of all, the whole idea of Venus, which we 340 00:19:21,320 --> 00:19:24,240 Speaker 2: know basically next to Hell is one of the hottest 341 00:19:24,240 --> 00:19:27,719 Speaker 2: places around then probably doesn't support much life. And it 342 00:19:27,800 --> 00:19:31,920 Speaker 2: is interesting that even in the fifties into the sixties, 343 00:19:31,920 --> 00:19:34,400 Speaker 2: when the contact e movement was going on, that's where 344 00:19:34,400 --> 00:19:38,359 Speaker 2: people like Georgia Damski were claiming that they were taken 345 00:19:38,400 --> 00:19:41,800 Speaker 2: on board craft and flowing around the universe. Where did 346 00:19:41,800 --> 00:19:45,280 Speaker 2: he say they were from Venus? Yes, these were comely 347 00:19:45,400 --> 00:19:49,879 Speaker 2: Venusian women that were flying him around the universe. So yeah, 348 00:19:49,960 --> 00:19:52,720 Speaker 2: a lot of crazy was going on in some of 349 00:19:52,720 --> 00:19:55,080 Speaker 2: those films, and you're right, they did take a turn 350 00:19:55,200 --> 00:19:57,199 Speaker 2: for the weird in the middle of it. But at 351 00:19:57,200 --> 00:19:59,399 Speaker 2: the same time, I have to say, if you assume 352 00:19:59,440 --> 00:20:02,000 Speaker 2: the Robertson panel is fifty three, than anything that they 353 00:20:02,080 --> 00:20:04,920 Speaker 2: might have had any impact on would be fifty four 354 00:20:05,160 --> 00:20:09,200 Speaker 2: or fifty five, probably knowing how long movies generally take. Well, 355 00:20:09,200 --> 00:20:12,119 Speaker 2: there was some pretty stupid things before the Robertson panel. 356 00:20:12,440 --> 00:20:16,760 Speaker 2: They were Zombies of the Stratosphere. Okay, that's interesting they 357 00:20:16,760 --> 00:20:20,520 Speaker 2: had in fifty three when the Robinson panel was meeting 358 00:20:20,560 --> 00:20:24,679 Speaker 2: and having their grave meetings about the UFO issue. Catwomen 359 00:20:24,760 --> 00:20:27,600 Speaker 2: of the Moon was in the theaters, and so was 360 00:20:27,640 --> 00:20:30,280 Speaker 2: Abbott and Costello. Go to Mars, and of course you 361 00:20:30,359 --> 00:20:34,080 Speaker 2: got Commander Cody and the Rocket Rangers and Devil Girl 362 00:20:34,160 --> 00:20:38,600 Speaker 2: from Mars, Stranger from Venus, there's Venus again, Beast with 363 00:20:38,640 --> 00:20:42,040 Speaker 2: a Million Eyes. There's just the fifties were a golden 364 00:20:42,080 --> 00:20:45,040 Speaker 2: period for bad movies about flying saucers. 365 00:20:45,280 --> 00:20:47,280 Speaker 1: Well, and I think that's the whole point is we 366 00:20:47,359 --> 00:20:49,080 Speaker 1: know what the Robertson panel was doing, and we know 367 00:20:49,119 --> 00:20:52,320 Speaker 1: that Hollywood was, even before the Robertson panel, making its 368 00:20:52,320 --> 00:20:55,520 Speaker 1: own crazy movies. Switch over to the side of the audience. 369 00:20:55,920 --> 00:20:59,359 Speaker 1: What was the audience supposed to take away from this 370 00:20:59,480 --> 00:21:04,000 Speaker 1: prolifer of movies. The general sentiment was this is all 371 00:21:04,080 --> 00:21:08,000 Speaker 1: silly and fun and crazy, right, And so I think 372 00:21:08,040 --> 00:21:09,840 Speaker 1: one movie that we do want to kind of drill 373 00:21:09,920 --> 00:21:12,720 Speaker 1: down into is something that you actually have a very 374 00:21:12,720 --> 00:21:15,760 Speaker 1: personal experience with, which was a movie called The Twenty 375 00:21:15,800 --> 00:21:18,200 Speaker 1: Seventh Day in nineteen fifty seven. 376 00:21:18,520 --> 00:21:21,280 Speaker 2: I do actually have that the director of The Twenty 377 00:21:21,280 --> 00:21:24,760 Speaker 2: Seventh Day was Bill Lasher, and Bill Lasher, if I 378 00:21:24,760 --> 00:21:27,480 Speaker 2: can divert for just a second, was my mentor. The 379 00:21:27,640 --> 00:21:31,760 Speaker 2: very last television show Bill Lasher ever did was k Obrian, 380 00:21:31,800 --> 00:21:34,760 Speaker 2: a show I created and was my very first television series. 381 00:21:35,280 --> 00:21:37,840 Speaker 2: So he took me under his wing and said, hey, kid, 382 00:21:37,840 --> 00:21:39,719 Speaker 2: I'm going to teach you how TV works and that 383 00:21:39,800 --> 00:21:41,760 Speaker 2: kind of thing. Well, Bill would be the guy that 384 00:21:41,800 --> 00:21:44,520 Speaker 2: would know, because he directed most of the first two 385 00:21:44,520 --> 00:21:47,879 Speaker 2: seasons of I Love Lucy, He put the Nose Twitch 386 00:21:47,880 --> 00:21:51,800 Speaker 2: into Bewitched, and married Elizabeth Montgomery. He directed a Beach 387 00:21:51,840 --> 00:21:55,359 Speaker 2: Blanket Bingo and movies like that. But what was strange 388 00:21:55,840 --> 00:21:58,720 Speaker 2: is that Bill, a guy who was a comedy guy 389 00:21:59,119 --> 00:22:03,639 Speaker 2: in nineteen fifty ends up making this movie The twenty 390 00:22:03,680 --> 00:22:07,360 Speaker 2: seventh Day, which is clearly not the day the Earth 391 00:22:07,359 --> 00:22:10,000 Speaker 2: stood Still or anything, which is the one that people 392 00:22:10,119 --> 00:22:12,640 Speaker 2: tend to think, Oh, if you're gonna watch one fifties movie, 393 00:22:12,680 --> 00:22:15,840 Speaker 2: that probably is it. He didn't make that movie. Well, 394 00:22:15,920 --> 00:22:17,679 Speaker 2: let me tell you a little bit about The twenty 395 00:22:17,720 --> 00:22:20,920 Speaker 2: Seventh Day. It's a short film, seventy five minutes. It's 396 00:22:20,960 --> 00:22:25,400 Speaker 2: black and white. It's a Cold war science fiction kind 397 00:22:25,400 --> 00:22:31,160 Speaker 2: of thing. It's built to talk about the Russia US conflict, 398 00:22:31,440 --> 00:22:35,679 Speaker 2: but to do it using flying saucers. Here's the premise. 399 00:22:35,720 --> 00:22:38,200 Speaker 2: It's actually one of the first movies to do abductions. 400 00:22:38,359 --> 00:22:41,560 Speaker 2: Five people are abducted in the Twenty seventh Day. They're 401 00:22:41,640 --> 00:22:44,639 Speaker 2: ordinary people from five different nations. So let's get a 402 00:22:44,680 --> 00:22:48,120 Speaker 2: little of everything. They got an American reporter, an English actress, 403 00:22:48,160 --> 00:22:51,679 Speaker 2: a German scientist, a Soviet soldier, and a Chinese peasant 404 00:22:51,720 --> 00:22:54,120 Speaker 2: woman who could ask for anything more in a list 405 00:22:54,119 --> 00:22:58,439 Speaker 2: of abductees. And then comes this alien after he's abducted 406 00:22:58,720 --> 00:23:02,800 Speaker 2: these people kind of looks like an intergalactic airline attendant 407 00:23:02,880 --> 00:23:07,080 Speaker 2: or something. I mean, he's very calm, and he addresses 408 00:23:07,160 --> 00:23:08,840 Speaker 2: them about what he's about to do, and he gives 409 00:23:08,880 --> 00:23:12,200 Speaker 2: each a small box containing three capsules. Each capsule can 410 00:23:12,240 --> 00:23:15,560 Speaker 2: be activated to kill all human life in a huge radius, 411 00:23:15,760 --> 00:23:18,840 Speaker 2: and it doesn't damage buildings, So it's like a neutron bomb, 412 00:23:18,920 --> 00:23:21,919 Speaker 2: I guess in a little tiny capsule, and then the 413 00:23:21,960 --> 00:23:24,920 Speaker 2: boxes only respond to thought patterns of the person who 414 00:23:24,960 --> 00:23:28,440 Speaker 2: received them, and the capsules go dead after twenty seven days. 415 00:23:28,680 --> 00:23:32,320 Speaker 2: So what happens is it's this thing that is about 416 00:23:32,400 --> 00:23:35,560 Speaker 2: human nature, but also about if you think the other 417 00:23:35,680 --> 00:23:38,480 Speaker 2: side might push the button, do you push first? Right? 418 00:23:38,800 --> 00:23:41,480 Speaker 2: That's the essence of this movie. But it's also the 419 00:23:41,560 --> 00:23:44,000 Speaker 2: essence of the Cold War. It was very strange for 420 00:23:44,040 --> 00:23:46,639 Speaker 2: Bill who have done that. I did talk to Bill 421 00:23:46,840 --> 00:23:49,560 Speaker 2: a little bit about the UFO angle of the whole thing, 422 00:23:49,840 --> 00:23:52,159 Speaker 2: but you know, I was doing a television series and 423 00:23:52,760 --> 00:23:55,120 Speaker 2: trying to learn it is knee there and I don't 424 00:23:55,160 --> 00:23:56,400 Speaker 2: have a lot of time to talk to you. Thus, 425 00:23:56,480 --> 00:23:56,800 Speaker 2: but some. 426 00:23:57,160 --> 00:24:01,320 Speaker 1: Well, it is interesting why somebody has accomplished, as Bill 427 00:24:01,359 --> 00:24:04,439 Speaker 1: Asher right in what sounded like more like the drama 428 00:24:04,480 --> 00:24:07,760 Speaker 1: and comedy Vein would take on a project like this. 429 00:24:08,240 --> 00:24:10,080 Speaker 1: Do you have any special insight into that? 430 00:24:10,119 --> 00:24:12,960 Speaker 2: I don't know if I have insight. I have a theory. Okay, 431 00:24:13,040 --> 00:24:16,040 Speaker 2: let's hear the theory, okay, because what Bill said, Bill 432 00:24:16,080 --> 00:24:19,040 Speaker 2: always would sort of minimize. So I said, I said 433 00:24:19,040 --> 00:24:22,720 Speaker 2: to Bill, you were doing beach blanket bingo and stuff 434 00:24:22,760 --> 00:24:25,440 Speaker 2: like that, why would you do the twenty seventh today? 435 00:24:25,440 --> 00:24:28,000 Speaker 2: And he said, well, I have a large family and 436 00:24:28,040 --> 00:24:31,359 Speaker 2: I needed a paycheck, is what he said. And of 437 00:24:31,359 --> 00:24:34,280 Speaker 2: course Bill was one of those Hollywood guys that was 438 00:24:34,400 --> 00:24:38,920 Speaker 2: married many times and saw his fortune being halved over 439 00:24:39,000 --> 00:24:41,080 Speaker 2: and over, so maybe he did need the money. But 440 00:24:41,280 --> 00:24:43,520 Speaker 2: my theory is that that was part of it, but 441 00:24:43,640 --> 00:24:46,639 Speaker 2: not all of it. Because here's the thing. Bill was 442 00:24:46,720 --> 00:24:49,120 Speaker 2: also a guy that hung out with the rat Pack, 443 00:24:49,600 --> 00:24:52,760 Speaker 2: which I always found so fascinating about him. I mean, 444 00:24:53,240 --> 00:24:56,679 Speaker 2: he is a guy that hung out with Sinatra, Dean Martin, 445 00:24:56,800 --> 00:25:00,720 Speaker 2: Sammy Davis Junior, Joey Bishop, Peter Lawford, and he was 446 00:25:00,760 --> 00:25:04,120 Speaker 2: sort of the guy off screen, right. He hung out 447 00:25:04,160 --> 00:25:06,880 Speaker 2: with them, he partied with them. He knew him very 448 00:25:07,080 --> 00:25:11,080 Speaker 2: very well, but he was not the public persona of 449 00:25:11,119 --> 00:25:14,640 Speaker 2: the rat Pack. But these guys, you know, they were 450 00:25:14,720 --> 00:25:17,280 Speaker 2: part of that time period where you would get together 451 00:25:17,320 --> 00:25:19,560 Speaker 2: at night and you'd get very drunk, so you could 452 00:25:19,560 --> 00:25:21,760 Speaker 2: say things that you could claim you didn't say the 453 00:25:21,800 --> 00:25:24,359 Speaker 2: next day or you didn't remember. And I'm sure there 454 00:25:24,359 --> 00:25:27,240 Speaker 2: are a lot of these parties that Bill was at 455 00:25:27,440 --> 00:25:31,400 Speaker 2: by nineteen fifty seven. He wanted to show his friends 456 00:25:31,760 --> 00:25:35,919 Speaker 2: that he wasn't just a comedy guy, that he also 457 00:25:36,000 --> 00:25:38,879 Speaker 2: had important things that he was doing well. The Twenty 458 00:25:38,920 --> 00:25:42,000 Speaker 2: Seventh Day is not a film that I recommend everyone 459 00:25:42,080 --> 00:25:44,600 Speaker 2: run out and watch. I mean, it was interesting for 460 00:25:44,640 --> 00:25:46,879 Speaker 2: me to see it because of my personal connection. It 461 00:25:47,000 --> 00:25:50,480 Speaker 2: is a movie that feels important because it is more 462 00:25:50,520 --> 00:25:53,240 Speaker 2: than even most of the other ones. It is clearly 463 00:25:53,560 --> 00:25:55,399 Speaker 2: about the Cold War. I mean, it's got a Russian, 464 00:25:55,440 --> 00:25:58,560 Speaker 2: it's got American. We can destroy them, they can destroy us, 465 00:25:59,080 --> 00:26:01,359 Speaker 2: and if they do, then the whole world's gone. Because 466 00:26:01,359 --> 00:26:04,040 Speaker 2: the aliens have said, we really need the earth, but 467 00:26:04,320 --> 00:26:07,520 Speaker 2: our culture prevents us from attacking you and taking it 468 00:26:07,560 --> 00:26:10,240 Speaker 2: from you. So we're going to give you these capsules 469 00:26:10,240 --> 00:26:12,600 Speaker 2: and then you'll when you destroy yourselves, then we'll move 470 00:26:12,600 --> 00:26:15,119 Speaker 2: in and take it over as if we're not worthy 471 00:26:15,200 --> 00:26:19,399 Speaker 2: or whatever. So yeah, so well, not the greatest movie, 472 00:26:19,440 --> 00:26:20,359 Speaker 2: but interesting. 473 00:26:20,680 --> 00:26:22,880 Speaker 1: So let's go back to the rat Pack for a second, 474 00:26:22,920 --> 00:26:25,479 Speaker 1: because that's fascinating. I read somewhere that I think it 475 00:26:25,520 --> 00:26:29,280 Speaker 1: was Sammy Davis Junior who had a UFO experience. He 476 00:26:29,359 --> 00:26:32,120 Speaker 1: did Bill, were talking with Bill about that, or yeah. 477 00:26:31,960 --> 00:26:34,360 Speaker 2: He did, because we were talking about the twenty seventh Day, 478 00:26:34,359 --> 00:26:37,000 Speaker 2: and he goes, yeah, well, you know, Sammy saw one, 479 00:26:37,119 --> 00:26:39,240 Speaker 2: and I was like, what tell me about it? 480 00:26:39,640 --> 00:26:42,639 Speaker 1: And that image of Sammy Davis Junior seeing a UFO 481 00:26:42,920 --> 00:26:44,520 Speaker 1: is really quite amusing. 482 00:26:44,760 --> 00:26:47,359 Speaker 2: He told Bill about it, but he told many other people. 483 00:26:47,400 --> 00:26:50,480 Speaker 2: He said he had seen a group of small silver discs, 484 00:26:50,520 --> 00:26:53,160 Speaker 2: and this was the early fifties, not a single light, 485 00:26:53,200 --> 00:26:56,480 Speaker 2: but multiple lights, multiple objects, and he described them as 486 00:26:56,520 --> 00:26:59,480 Speaker 2: hovering and darting and doing things that aircraft don't do. 487 00:27:00,040 --> 00:27:01,879 Speaker 2: And then this is the word that Bill used, and 488 00:27:01,920 --> 00:27:05,200 Speaker 2: then poof, they were gone. But that sounds pretty familiar 489 00:27:05,200 --> 00:27:07,680 Speaker 2: to a lot of the testimony we get these days. 490 00:27:07,960 --> 00:27:11,280 Speaker 1: Very much, which I think is much more a modern 491 00:27:11,920 --> 00:27:14,600 Speaker 1: depiction of UFOs than it was at that time. 492 00:27:14,880 --> 00:27:18,720 Speaker 2: Yeah, and it's kind of incomprehensible to me that if 493 00:27:18,720 --> 00:27:21,639 Speaker 2: Bill was making this movie and hanging out with people 494 00:27:21,680 --> 00:27:24,600 Speaker 2: that they wouldn't have talked about UFOs a lot. Well. 495 00:27:24,640 --> 00:27:26,680 Speaker 2: And by the way, when I say ex officio member, 496 00:27:26,800 --> 00:27:30,080 Speaker 2: just a small sidebar. But in his later days Bill 497 00:27:30,119 --> 00:27:32,879 Speaker 2: has passed on. There's a picture I believe it was 498 00:27:32,920 --> 00:27:37,080 Speaker 2: in life magazine that shows Marilyn Monroe, who is sort 499 00:27:37,080 --> 00:27:39,639 Speaker 2: of she's been sewing into a tight dress on the 500 00:27:39,720 --> 00:27:43,639 Speaker 2: night that she sang Happy Birthday, mister President, so controversially, 501 00:27:43,880 --> 00:27:48,840 Speaker 2: and Bill directed that. He directed, oh really that night, 502 00:27:49,160 --> 00:27:53,080 Speaker 2: and Bill had a picture in his office where yes, 503 00:27:53,200 --> 00:27:56,480 Speaker 2: it had the Kennedy brothers and it had Marilyn, but 504 00:27:57,160 --> 00:27:59,840 Speaker 2: that had been cropped, and the full picture shows Bill 505 00:28:00,400 --> 00:28:03,960 Speaker 2: off to the side kind of looking down Maryland's cleavage 506 00:28:04,040 --> 00:28:06,199 Speaker 2: and all that, which I thought was pretty funny. 507 00:28:06,280 --> 00:28:10,440 Speaker 1: So let's circle back to your theory about Bill's motivation 508 00:28:10,600 --> 00:28:13,080 Speaker 1: for taking on the twenty seventh day. I think I 509 00:28:13,119 --> 00:28:16,639 Speaker 1: agree that certainly the practical reason makes a lot of sense. 510 00:28:17,000 --> 00:28:19,760 Speaker 1: The idea that he has friends in the rat pack 511 00:28:19,840 --> 00:28:23,280 Speaker 1: that he wants to impress with doing something more serious 512 00:28:23,359 --> 00:28:26,399 Speaker 1: minded also makes sense. The fact that they're even talking 513 00:28:26,440 --> 00:28:29,719 Speaker 1: about UFOs casually in a friendly way that could give 514 00:28:29,800 --> 00:28:32,480 Speaker 1: him extra motivation. But I also know too that he 515 00:28:32,600 --> 00:28:34,800 Speaker 1: was in the military, so he might have had also 516 00:28:34,840 --> 00:28:36,919 Speaker 1: a unique point of view on the topic. Did he 517 00:28:36,960 --> 00:28:39,040 Speaker 1: ever mention anything like that to you. 518 00:28:38,800 --> 00:28:41,920 Speaker 2: On that one time when we dived into the UFO topic, 519 00:28:41,960 --> 00:28:45,160 Speaker 2: He did. Bill had been in the US Army Signal 520 00:28:45,160 --> 00:28:47,800 Speaker 2: Corps in World War Two, and one of the things 521 00:28:47,800 --> 00:28:50,600 Speaker 2: he said, now, this is a triple negative, which it's 522 00:28:50,600 --> 00:28:54,840 Speaker 2: almost Yogi bearra ish in its triple negative. But he said, 523 00:28:54,960 --> 00:28:57,080 Speaker 2: I wrote this down because I thought I'd get it wrong. 524 00:28:57,560 --> 00:29:00,840 Speaker 2: Just because somebody in the military tells you something isn't 525 00:29:00,880 --> 00:29:03,440 Speaker 2: true doesn't mean that it's not wow. And I'm not 526 00:29:03,480 --> 00:29:06,719 Speaker 2: sure how to parse that exactly, Brent he was saying. 527 00:29:06,760 --> 00:29:09,800 Speaker 2: And how he explained that quote later was he put 528 00:29:09,840 --> 00:29:12,960 Speaker 2: nothing past the military because he figured if there was 529 00:29:13,000 --> 00:29:17,320 Speaker 2: something truly as important as the fact that flying saucers 530 00:29:17,400 --> 00:29:20,800 Speaker 2: or UFOs were real, the government would classify it and 531 00:29:20,880 --> 00:29:23,360 Speaker 2: lie about it. I never got the sense that Bill 532 00:29:23,480 --> 00:29:27,360 Speaker 2: himself saw a UFO. He made his movie that probably 533 00:29:27,400 --> 00:29:29,520 Speaker 2: there's not too much to be done with that. But 534 00:29:29,600 --> 00:29:32,680 Speaker 2: I will say this, in addition to the rat Pack, 535 00:29:33,280 --> 00:29:36,440 Speaker 2: he hung out with JFK, something that's kind of important 536 00:29:36,480 --> 00:29:39,040 Speaker 2: to our whole Dark Sky's chronology. 537 00:29:39,360 --> 00:29:41,960 Speaker 1: Yet, and didn't he have a great kind of behind 538 00:29:41,960 --> 00:29:43,400 Speaker 1: the scenes story about JFK. 539 00:29:43,800 --> 00:29:47,480 Speaker 2: Listen, I tell this story at dinner parties. I don't 540 00:29:47,520 --> 00:29:49,480 Speaker 2: think I've told it on the air. I think this 541 00:29:49,560 --> 00:29:53,160 Speaker 2: is a first. It's tangential to the UFO topic. But 542 00:29:53,240 --> 00:29:55,719 Speaker 2: maybe you can find a UFO connection after I tell it. 543 00:29:55,880 --> 00:29:58,920 Speaker 2: Here's what happened, and Bill told me this, And the 544 00:29:59,000 --> 00:30:01,800 Speaker 2: thing is about Bill. First of all, he liked me, 545 00:30:01,880 --> 00:30:04,920 Speaker 2: so I appreciate that, and he wasn't about to bullshit me. 546 00:30:05,120 --> 00:30:07,320 Speaker 2: In fact, if anything, what I liked about him is 547 00:30:07,360 --> 00:30:10,120 Speaker 2: he didn't bullshit. He told you what he thought about 548 00:30:10,160 --> 00:30:13,560 Speaker 2: anything and everything. So anyway, this is what Bill told me. 549 00:30:13,840 --> 00:30:17,280 Speaker 2: He said that in the summer of nineteen sixty, when 550 00:30:17,360 --> 00:30:21,640 Speaker 2: JFK was nominated by the Democratic Party to run for president, 551 00:30:21,840 --> 00:30:25,320 Speaker 2: there was a party at Peter Lawford's house, either the 552 00:30:25,400 --> 00:30:27,400 Speaker 2: day before or the day after. I don't think this 553 00:30:27,640 --> 00:30:29,960 Speaker 2: was the night of the actual nomination, because I think 554 00:30:30,000 --> 00:30:32,400 Speaker 2: JFK had other things to do. And this party's going 555 00:30:32,440 --> 00:30:36,080 Speaker 2: on at Peter Lawford's house. Bill's there partying. We know 556 00:30:36,120 --> 00:30:38,440 Speaker 2: who the rat pack is, we've discussed him. But in 557 00:30:38,480 --> 00:30:42,160 Speaker 2: addition to the rat Pack, Marilyn is there and JFK 558 00:30:42,400 --> 00:30:45,760 Speaker 2: is there. This is July of nineteen sixty. And Bill 559 00:30:45,840 --> 00:30:50,320 Speaker 2: said that during the party, JFK and Marilyn went out 560 00:30:50,360 --> 00:30:52,560 Speaker 2: to the backpool house and they were gone a couple 561 00:30:52,640 --> 00:30:56,360 Speaker 2: hours and when they came back, Marilyn was wearing JFK's shirt. 562 00:30:56,640 --> 00:30:58,760 Speaker 2: He had a white dress shirt and she was wearing 563 00:30:58,800 --> 00:31:01,640 Speaker 2: it now And that's not the story though, That's just 564 00:31:02,120 --> 00:31:04,840 Speaker 2: he just told me that and said, yeah, of course, Maryland. 565 00:31:04,880 --> 00:31:08,000 Speaker 2: Oh yeah. So from the point of view of was 566 00:31:08,040 --> 00:31:12,240 Speaker 2: Maryland and JFK involved, I think we pretty much all 567 00:31:12,600 --> 00:31:15,240 Speaker 2: think that they were now, but people will still argue 568 00:31:15,240 --> 00:31:17,640 Speaker 2: about it. We certainly said they were in dark skies 569 00:31:18,080 --> 00:31:21,160 Speaker 2: in one of our episodes. Anyway, So the party goes on, 570 00:31:21,480 --> 00:31:23,760 Speaker 2: a lot of drinking is going on, because that's what 571 00:31:23,880 --> 00:31:27,640 Speaker 2: happens at these parties, and at some point in this party, JFK, 572 00:31:27,920 --> 00:31:30,920 Speaker 2: who's as drunk as everybody else in the party, goes 573 00:31:30,960 --> 00:31:35,680 Speaker 2: out onto PCH, which is in Malibu where Peter Lawford's 574 00:31:35,680 --> 00:31:39,960 Speaker 2: house was, and he's stopping traffic on PCH. So JFK 575 00:31:40,160 --> 00:31:44,640 Speaker 2: is out there on PCH stopping traffic and screaming, I'm 576 00:31:44,760 --> 00:31:47,880 Speaker 2: going to be the fucking president of the United States, 577 00:31:48,200 --> 00:31:52,080 Speaker 2: and this seemed like it could undermine his candidacy. So 578 00:31:52,440 --> 00:31:56,040 Speaker 2: the group dispatched Bill, and I believe Lawford, but it 579 00:31:56,080 --> 00:31:58,160 Speaker 2: was Bill and somebody else to go get him. So 580 00:31:58,280 --> 00:32:01,680 Speaker 2: Bill literally wrestled the future President of the United States 581 00:32:01,960 --> 00:32:05,239 Speaker 2: off pch back into the house so he would not 582 00:32:05,280 --> 00:32:07,560 Speaker 2: be in the newspapers the next morning. And all I 583 00:32:07,560 --> 00:32:10,080 Speaker 2: can say, just like you know with the UFO story, 584 00:32:10,120 --> 00:32:13,240 Speaker 2: people go, God, it happened, but no one will believe me. 585 00:32:13,680 --> 00:32:16,160 Speaker 2: Imagine a couple of those people that were stopped in 586 00:32:16,240 --> 00:32:20,280 Speaker 2: traffic probably said JFK was out there and he was yelling, 587 00:32:20,600 --> 00:32:23,239 Speaker 2: and nobody would believe them. Yeah, they're still telling that 588 00:32:23,320 --> 00:32:26,960 Speaker 2: story to this day. Maybe that's our UFO connection. Although 589 00:32:27,200 --> 00:32:29,080 Speaker 2: and we don't have to get it into in this episode. 590 00:32:29,120 --> 00:32:31,920 Speaker 2: You and I have talked at length about JFK and UFOs, 591 00:32:32,080 --> 00:32:34,000 Speaker 2: and so he made a TV series about it. 592 00:32:39,040 --> 00:32:43,000 Speaker 1: Well, look, I think so fascinating. Bill sounds like a 593 00:32:43,240 --> 00:32:45,800 Speaker 1: very interesting man. I'm envious that you've got to spend 594 00:32:45,800 --> 00:32:48,520 Speaker 1: so much time with him, I think, again, bringing this 595 00:32:48,680 --> 00:32:51,880 Speaker 1: back to the big picture, the fifties were a time 596 00:32:52,160 --> 00:32:55,160 Speaker 1: of when you look at it and aggregate, The general 597 00:32:55,280 --> 00:32:59,520 Speaker 1: sentiment coming out of Hollywood about UFOs and aliens was 598 00:32:59,720 --> 00:33:03,040 Speaker 1: that that it was all largely ridiculous and that there 599 00:33:03,160 --> 00:33:08,760 Speaker 1: was no consistent narrative about UFOs except one real overriding message, 600 00:33:08,800 --> 00:33:12,920 Speaker 1: which was don't take any of this seriously. Now, whether 601 00:33:13,000 --> 00:33:17,320 Speaker 1: that was a mandated message in general from the Robertson panel, 602 00:33:17,400 --> 00:33:19,560 Speaker 1: we cannot say. But I think if you look at 603 00:33:19,560 --> 00:33:23,360 Speaker 1: all of the movies, it raises the question, okay, was 604 00:33:23,400 --> 00:33:26,920 Speaker 1: that what the audience was meant to take away from 605 00:33:27,280 --> 00:33:30,600 Speaker 1: all of these movies? Meanwhile, well, the audience is being 606 00:33:30,640 --> 00:33:33,720 Speaker 1: told not to take it seriously. The government is still 607 00:33:33,760 --> 00:33:37,959 Speaker 1: taking the subject very seriously, as the story of Donald 608 00:33:38,000 --> 00:33:39,600 Speaker 1: Keho will demonstrate. 609 00:33:39,880 --> 00:33:42,320 Speaker 2: You know, I love this story. It's hard to beat 610 00:33:42,480 --> 00:33:46,360 Speaker 2: JFK stopping traffic on PCH, but this one may do 611 00:33:46,440 --> 00:33:50,880 Speaker 2: it because it's so right on about any potential government 612 00:33:50,960 --> 00:33:55,840 Speaker 2: involvement in media. Because this is a classic. It's nineteen 613 00:33:55,960 --> 00:33:59,640 Speaker 2: fifty eight. It is January twenty second of nineteen fifty eight. 614 00:34:00,080 --> 00:34:04,240 Speaker 2: There's a TV show on CBS called Armstrong Circle Theater 615 00:34:04,480 --> 00:34:07,960 Speaker 2: and they have a program that is called quote UFO 616 00:34:08,680 --> 00:34:12,319 Speaker 2: Enigma of the Skies, and Keiho is on it, and 617 00:34:12,400 --> 00:34:14,640 Speaker 2: so or a bunch of other people. It was Major 618 00:34:14,760 --> 00:34:19,799 Speaker 2: Donald Keho. He had been a marine. So again Brent Navy, Right, 619 00:34:19,880 --> 00:34:22,840 Speaker 2: there goes the Navy thing. Again. Kio had been a marine, 620 00:34:23,360 --> 00:34:27,239 Speaker 2: and he felt that the military was lying about this 621 00:34:27,320 --> 00:34:30,080 Speaker 2: flying saucer thing, and he wrote a number of books 622 00:34:30,120 --> 00:34:34,040 Speaker 2: and he became the face of UFO disclosure in the 623 00:34:34,080 --> 00:34:37,400 Speaker 2: fifties into the sixties, into the early sixties. Think about 624 00:34:37,440 --> 00:34:41,319 Speaker 2: Major Keiho as kind of a Louel Azondo type or 625 00:34:41,320 --> 00:34:43,920 Speaker 2: maybe even a David Grush type. It wasn't exactly a 626 00:34:43,920 --> 00:34:46,520 Speaker 2: whistleblower because he was on the outside looking in. He 627 00:34:46,640 --> 00:34:49,400 Speaker 2: was banging on the door saying, tell us what you know, 628 00:34:49,480 --> 00:34:52,040 Speaker 2: and nobody would tell him. Ended up on that show, 629 00:34:52,560 --> 00:34:56,640 Speaker 2: and it was heavily scripted, and a number of people, 630 00:34:56,680 --> 00:34:59,000 Speaker 2: for example, who were asked to be on the show, 631 00:34:59,080 --> 00:35:01,320 Speaker 2: said I'm not going to be on that show. I 632 00:35:01,400 --> 00:35:04,239 Speaker 2: think one of them was even Jacques Valat is that yes, 633 00:35:04,280 --> 00:35:06,080 Speaker 2: you know those nerves in front of you. Is that true? 634 00:35:06,520 --> 00:35:07,280 Speaker 1: That is true? 635 00:35:07,400 --> 00:35:08,799 Speaker 2: And who said I'm not going to be on it 636 00:35:08,840 --> 00:35:11,960 Speaker 2: because they wanted to script it so tight that you 637 00:35:12,040 --> 00:35:15,520 Speaker 2: could only talk about what had already been decided. 638 00:35:15,880 --> 00:35:18,719 Speaker 1: Yes. Well, And the thing that strikes me about this 639 00:35:19,000 --> 00:35:21,719 Speaker 1: was again, this was all scripted. Like you said, it 640 00:35:21,760 --> 00:35:25,759 Speaker 1: was meant to be a performative demonstration by higher ups 641 00:35:25,800 --> 00:35:28,560 Speaker 1: within the government and the military again to promote a 642 00:35:28,600 --> 00:35:31,400 Speaker 1: certain message that there's nothing to see here, folks. But 643 00:35:31,480 --> 00:35:35,799 Speaker 1: you have this one man in Keiho who decides I'm 644 00:35:35,800 --> 00:35:38,640 Speaker 1: not going to read the teleprompter anymore, and in the 645 00:35:38,680 --> 00:35:43,719 Speaker 1: midst of this live televised broadcast, decided to say that 646 00:35:43,800 --> 00:35:46,960 Speaker 1: the Air Force was deliberately hiding the truth from the 647 00:35:47,000 --> 00:35:52,320 Speaker 1: public about UFOs. Now, obviously this completely contradicted the official statement, 648 00:35:52,640 --> 00:35:55,880 Speaker 1: and that set into motion a whole chain of events 649 00:35:56,080 --> 00:35:59,719 Speaker 1: during that lives where he was then censored by the 650 00:35:59,760 --> 00:36:00,640 Speaker 1: show producer. 651 00:36:00,880 --> 00:36:04,440 Speaker 2: They killed his mic. He said on the program and 652 00:36:04,480 --> 00:36:08,040 Speaker 2: now I'm going to reveal something that's never been disclosed before, 653 00:36:08,080 --> 00:36:12,080 Speaker 2: and then bam, Mike cut. Imagine this, you're watching this TV. 654 00:36:12,120 --> 00:36:15,040 Speaker 2: There's only three networks back in nineteen fifty eight, and 655 00:36:15,480 --> 00:36:18,120 Speaker 2: so he's got a pretty large audience, and most people 656 00:36:18,160 --> 00:36:20,359 Speaker 2: are at home, and a lot of people saw it, 657 00:36:20,680 --> 00:36:24,040 Speaker 2: and they're watching this guy talk about UFOs and he says, 658 00:36:24,280 --> 00:36:27,240 Speaker 2: I'm going to reveal something that's never been disclosed before, 659 00:36:27,440 --> 00:36:30,120 Speaker 2: used the word disclosed, and then they cut his mic, 660 00:36:30,200 --> 00:36:33,480 Speaker 2: and yet they continued to show him on camera. So 661 00:36:33,520 --> 00:36:37,479 Speaker 2: you see this guy moving his mouth but not saying anything, right, 662 00:36:38,040 --> 00:36:42,440 Speaker 2: and apparently some people his mic was cut, but you 663 00:36:42,440 --> 00:36:45,280 Speaker 2: could almost hear him on Douglas Edwards Mic a little 664 00:36:45,320 --> 00:36:49,359 Speaker 2: bit for a few people. But after this happened, he 665 00:36:49,480 --> 00:36:52,879 Speaker 2: released what he was going to say. So the censorship, 666 00:36:53,160 --> 00:36:55,759 Speaker 2: such as it worked in nineteen fifty eight, is not 667 00:36:55,920 --> 00:36:58,319 Speaker 2: valid today because this is what he was going to say. 668 00:36:58,480 --> 00:37:01,080 Speaker 2: For the last six months, we have been working with 669 00:37:01,120 --> 00:37:06,120 Speaker 2: a congressional committee investigating official secrecy about UFOs. If all 670 00:37:06,160 --> 00:37:09,320 Speaker 2: the evidence we have given this committee is made public 671 00:37:09,360 --> 00:37:13,839 Speaker 2: and open hearings, it will absolutely prove that UFOs are 672 00:37:13,880 --> 00:37:18,680 Speaker 2: real and machines under intelligent control. That's what got censored. 673 00:37:18,880 --> 00:37:21,799 Speaker 1: Amazing and that was and so, as you said, some 674 00:37:21,920 --> 00:37:25,360 Speaker 1: people actually did hear this, And in the wake of 675 00:37:25,400 --> 00:37:28,880 Speaker 1: that broadcast, when that segment was done, the show was 676 00:37:28,960 --> 00:37:32,200 Speaker 1: inundated with people calling in and saying, what happened? What 677 00:37:32,400 --> 00:37:35,520 Speaker 1: did I miss? I heard something? What's going on? So 678 00:37:35,600 --> 00:37:38,920 Speaker 1: again we're back to some small scattering of people that 679 00:37:39,120 --> 00:37:42,400 Speaker 1: heard that live at the time are probably out there saying, no, 680 00:37:42,480 --> 00:37:45,160 Speaker 1: but I heard a government official come on air and 681 00:37:45,320 --> 00:37:46,480 Speaker 1: disclose the truth. 682 00:37:47,040 --> 00:37:50,399 Speaker 2: But alsobody, most silly is it that it all has 683 00:37:50,480 --> 00:37:54,719 Speaker 2: to be scripted because in today's cable news world and 684 00:37:54,880 --> 00:37:59,960 Speaker 2: social media It's almost demanded that anybody covering this topic 685 00:38:00,080 --> 00:38:02,800 Speaker 2: would bring in someone who's a skeptic and someone who's 686 00:38:02,840 --> 00:38:06,200 Speaker 2: a believer and let them fight about it, but not 687 00:38:06,360 --> 00:38:08,839 Speaker 2: back then. And I find I have one more quote, 688 00:38:08,840 --> 00:38:10,680 Speaker 2: and I'll be done for the day on this. But 689 00:38:10,760 --> 00:38:14,200 Speaker 2: this one, I just found it to be so incredible 690 00:38:14,239 --> 00:38:18,480 Speaker 2: because this is what CBS said when people wrote them 691 00:38:18,800 --> 00:38:21,479 Speaker 2: about this and said why did you cut his mic? 692 00:38:21,719 --> 00:38:27,640 Speaker 2: They said, this program had been carefully cleared for security reasons. Therefore, 693 00:38:27,920 --> 00:38:31,799 Speaker 2: it was the responsibility of this network to ensure performance 694 00:38:32,200 --> 00:38:37,200 Speaker 2: in accordance with predetermined security standards. Any indication there would 695 00:38:37,239 --> 00:38:40,839 Speaker 2: be a deviation might lead the statements that neither this 696 00:38:40,960 --> 00:38:45,080 Speaker 2: network nor the individuals on the program were authorized to 697 00:38:45,280 --> 00:38:49,000 Speaker 2: release that about sums it up right there, cover your 698 00:38:49,160 --> 00:38:51,920 Speaker 2: ass as what as I call that quote? I mean, well, 699 00:38:51,960 --> 00:38:53,080 Speaker 2: and here's an interesting thing. 700 00:38:53,200 --> 00:38:59,280 Speaker 1: So of course Keiho tries to disclose, right, very brave man. Ultimately, 701 00:38:59,520 --> 00:39:03,400 Speaker 1: his assistant accusations over the years of a conspiracy against 702 00:39:03,400 --> 00:39:07,480 Speaker 1: the government led to his effective marginalization and the suppression 703 00:39:07,680 --> 00:39:10,360 Speaker 1: of his message. He was able to write some books, 704 00:39:10,360 --> 00:39:14,200 Speaker 1: but he was being debunked by the government and the 705 00:39:14,200 --> 00:39:18,440 Speaker 1: military that he served, So that's an early lesson, right 706 00:39:18,560 --> 00:39:21,360 Speaker 1: for anyone else in the military. Look what happened to 707 00:39:21,400 --> 00:39:23,560 Speaker 1: Donald Keo when you tried to tell the truth? 708 00:39:23,600 --> 00:39:26,360 Speaker 2: I think Donald Keijo in the same way Louel Azando 709 00:39:26,640 --> 00:39:29,480 Speaker 2: by many is considered kind of a hero of the movement. 710 00:39:29,520 --> 00:39:34,120 Speaker 2: Now I realize Elzando's very controversial. Keiho was never that controversial. 711 00:39:34,560 --> 00:39:37,359 Speaker 2: I own like five of Keyho's books, which maybe all 712 00:39:37,400 --> 00:39:40,000 Speaker 2: of them, I don't know, it's some amount of them, 713 00:39:40,400 --> 00:39:43,080 Speaker 2: and I've read three of them cover to cover, and 714 00:39:43,160 --> 00:39:44,880 Speaker 2: I have to say he has a style. It's a 715 00:39:44,960 --> 00:39:48,480 Speaker 2: very personal kind of style. It's kind of personal journalism 716 00:39:48,600 --> 00:39:51,400 Speaker 2: before that became a thing. Right. He's not Hunter Thompson 717 00:39:51,480 --> 00:39:54,600 Speaker 2: or anything, but he is talking about his investigation and 718 00:39:54,880 --> 00:39:59,640 Speaker 2: they're very good. In particular, he's going through case after case. 719 00:40:00,000 --> 00:40:02,160 Speaker 2: Any one of his books is full of cases where 720 00:40:02,160 --> 00:40:04,560 Speaker 2: if you read it, you'd say, good grief. I mean that, 721 00:40:05,040 --> 00:40:08,879 Speaker 2: what's the explanation for that? There's just no explanation other 722 00:40:09,000 --> 00:40:12,160 Speaker 2: than an omalus. So I think he did the world 723 00:40:12,440 --> 00:40:15,560 Speaker 2: a whole lot of good with his work. And I 724 00:40:15,560 --> 00:40:18,480 Speaker 2: think the other thing is, yes, he was getting debunked, 725 00:40:18,800 --> 00:40:22,400 Speaker 2: no problem, No question about it. But he had a 726 00:40:22,400 --> 00:40:25,520 Speaker 2: lot of fans. And why was that he had fans 727 00:40:26,000 --> 00:40:29,520 Speaker 2: because a lot of people knew something was not right. 728 00:40:29,960 --> 00:40:33,960 Speaker 2: The government wasn't coming completely clean on this. Now at 729 00:40:33,960 --> 00:40:37,720 Speaker 2: the time, he was really the receptacle of their suspicions 730 00:40:37,760 --> 00:40:40,919 Speaker 2: because most of the government stuff that they weren't being 731 00:40:41,000 --> 00:40:44,279 Speaker 2: honest about would come out later in memos that were 732 00:40:44,320 --> 00:40:48,399 Speaker 2: released almost decades later during the Freedom of Information Act. 733 00:40:48,520 --> 00:40:50,719 Speaker 2: But he was a great guy, just a great guy, 734 00:40:50,960 --> 00:40:52,720 Speaker 2: and we own a lot well. 735 00:40:52,920 --> 00:40:55,640 Speaker 1: And I think this is a great segue now into 736 00:40:55,880 --> 00:40:58,600 Speaker 1: what does it all mean and where does this take 737 00:40:58,680 --> 00:41:02,760 Speaker 1: us on our journey of exploring kind of that unholy 738 00:41:02,800 --> 00:41:06,160 Speaker 1: alliance between Hollywood and the government. You know, as we've 739 00:41:06,160 --> 00:41:11,440 Speaker 1: seen the fifties was this really strange decade where the 740 00:41:11,560 --> 00:41:15,800 Speaker 1: narrative of the UFO phenomenon kind of shifted from Sirius 741 00:41:16,280 --> 00:41:18,759 Speaker 1: in the wake of Roswell and what's going on to 742 00:41:19,400 --> 00:41:22,919 Speaker 1: very silly in aggregate. One of the things that accomplished though, 743 00:41:23,000 --> 00:41:26,080 Speaker 1: was it started to open the door to mock and 744 00:41:26,239 --> 00:41:30,359 Speaker 1: stigmatize anyone who dared believe that aliens might be real. 745 00:41:30,719 --> 00:41:34,080 Speaker 1: And while some of the stench of that has worn off, 746 00:41:34,120 --> 00:41:38,120 Speaker 1: in the intervening years. I still meet people today who 747 00:41:38,239 --> 00:41:42,480 Speaker 1: confide in me their personal stories knowing what my mindset 748 00:41:42,520 --> 00:41:45,960 Speaker 1: is on this. So I hear these incredible UFO encounters 749 00:41:46,200 --> 00:41:49,200 Speaker 1: that they have never told anyone else out of fear 750 00:41:49,200 --> 00:41:53,200 Speaker 1: of being ostracized, not unlike our friend Donald Keiho, and 751 00:41:53,640 --> 00:41:56,280 Speaker 1: by the way, to me personally, not unlike my daughter. 752 00:41:56,360 --> 00:41:59,240 Speaker 1: I told you the story that my daughter saw UFOs 753 00:41:59,280 --> 00:42:01,880 Speaker 1: with a friend of her. They were scared that it 754 00:42:01,960 --> 00:42:03,800 Speaker 1: happened at three in the morning when they were supposed 755 00:42:03,800 --> 00:42:05,919 Speaker 1: to be asleep in this sleepover, and so they didn't 756 00:42:05,920 --> 00:42:08,120 Speaker 1: want to tell the parents then. But as they got older, 757 00:42:08,440 --> 00:42:11,520 Speaker 1: they decided they didn't want to say anything because they 758 00:42:11,719 --> 00:42:15,280 Speaker 1: thought people would consider them crazy. And it wasn't until 759 00:42:15,560 --> 00:42:18,760 Speaker 1: my daughter was in her late teens and she knew 760 00:42:18,760 --> 00:42:22,040 Speaker 1: that I was involved in dark skies and she started 761 00:42:22,040 --> 00:42:24,440 Speaker 1: to understand what my past and my belief system was. 762 00:42:24,800 --> 00:42:27,239 Speaker 1: That she confessed this to me, and she felt that 763 00:42:27,280 --> 00:42:29,440 Speaker 1: I was a safe harbor at that point. But again, 764 00:42:30,080 --> 00:42:33,560 Speaker 1: was that the intention of the Robertson panel was to 765 00:42:33,600 --> 00:42:37,520 Speaker 1: start just moving the conversation far enough that it would 766 00:42:37,600 --> 00:42:43,280 Speaker 1: open the door to start stigmatizing anyone who dared come forward, 767 00:42:43,320 --> 00:42:46,759 Speaker 1: whether it was Donald Keho or a teenage girl and 768 00:42:46,840 --> 00:42:51,920 Speaker 1: anyone in between, from telling their story without fearing the 769 00:42:51,960 --> 00:42:53,759 Speaker 1: stigmatization or the ostratization. 770 00:42:53,840 --> 00:42:56,680 Speaker 2: That would come great Pointsaul. If you think back to 771 00:42:56,760 --> 00:42:59,880 Speaker 2: the Robertson panel, you really do have to ask yourself 772 00:43:00,239 --> 00:43:03,400 Speaker 2: what they're trying to tell us in their statements and 773 00:43:03,440 --> 00:43:07,239 Speaker 2: in their recommendations. Is UFOs aren't real? But just to 774 00:43:07,280 --> 00:43:10,239 Speaker 2: save the public from all this anxiety over it, we 775 00:43:10,360 --> 00:43:13,560 Speaker 2: need to debunk them and make people think they're silly. Okay. 776 00:43:13,840 --> 00:43:18,480 Speaker 2: Another explanation could be UFOs are very real, and they're saying, 777 00:43:18,680 --> 00:43:21,520 Speaker 2: we're not ready to talk about this yet. So what 778 00:43:21,800 --> 00:43:24,400 Speaker 2: arrows do we have in our quiver? And one of 779 00:43:24,440 --> 00:43:29,680 Speaker 2: them is the media and movies and television being the 780 00:43:29,719 --> 00:43:32,759 Speaker 2: biggest part of that. If I just hailed back to 781 00:43:32,840 --> 00:43:36,520 Speaker 2: the Disney thing that we started the show with, whatever 782 00:43:36,560 --> 00:43:40,799 Speaker 2: the Robertson panel envisioned and imagined back in nineteen fifty three, 783 00:43:41,440 --> 00:43:45,320 Speaker 2: Disney really didn't just touch this topic lightly. Across seventy 784 00:43:45,360 --> 00:43:49,640 Speaker 2: plus years, Disney's built a family facing pipeline for things 785 00:43:49,680 --> 00:43:55,320 Speaker 2: like space travel, aliens, artificial life, other intelligences, non human intelligences. 786 00:43:55,640 --> 00:43:58,279 Speaker 2: If there is a message. It eludes me because the 787 00:43:58,480 --> 00:44:01,279 Speaker 2: message seems to be let's throw a whole bunch of 788 00:44:01,360 --> 00:44:04,200 Speaker 2: stuff against the wall and see what sticks. I don't know, 789 00:44:04,320 --> 00:44:05,879 Speaker 2: is that how you see it, or what's your take? 790 00:44:06,160 --> 00:44:08,160 Speaker 1: You know what that is? Exactly? My take is when 791 00:44:08,200 --> 00:44:11,360 Speaker 1: there is a lack of coherence to the message, then 792 00:44:11,800 --> 00:44:14,520 Speaker 1: you stop looking for meaning and you just treat it 793 00:44:14,560 --> 00:44:18,520 Speaker 1: as entertainment. If I were to theorize what the whole 794 00:44:18,560 --> 00:44:22,040 Speaker 1: point of potentially the Robertson panel is, let's turn down 795 00:44:22,080 --> 00:44:25,600 Speaker 1: the volume on this and if it's out there in 796 00:44:25,840 --> 00:44:29,560 Speaker 1: the public consciousness as just entertainment, then maybe no one 797 00:44:29,600 --> 00:44:32,040 Speaker 1: will bother thinking about it and wasting any time on 798 00:44:32,080 --> 00:44:34,719 Speaker 1: it as a serious topic. It was funny the other 799 00:44:34,800 --> 00:44:37,160 Speaker 1: day I started thinking, what I feel like is I 800 00:44:37,320 --> 00:44:39,920 Speaker 1: feel like I'm a district attorney trying to prove a 801 00:44:40,000 --> 00:44:43,600 Speaker 1: case and looking at all the evidence and saying, what 802 00:44:43,800 --> 00:44:46,920 Speaker 1: was really going on here? Was their motive? Right? Was 803 00:44:46,960 --> 00:44:50,480 Speaker 1: their criminal activity? Was their coercion? All of these things? 804 00:44:50,560 --> 00:44:53,440 Speaker 1: We can't answer that yet definitively, but I feel like 805 00:44:53,719 --> 00:44:56,000 Speaker 1: that's what we're starting to bring to the surface. 806 00:44:56,200 --> 00:44:59,240 Speaker 2: Well, another fun time with you talking about this stuff, 807 00:44:59,280 --> 00:45:01,919 Speaker 2: and for those of you over at Disney, please don't 808 00:45:01,920 --> 00:45:10,280 Speaker 2: hate us. Sound Light and Frequency is an iHeart podcast 809 00:45:10,320 --> 00:45:14,200 Speaker 2: produced by Stellar Productions. It's executive produced by Nick Johnson 810 00:45:14,440 --> 00:45:17,640 Speaker 2: and for Stellar Jackie's Abel. Our show's music was written 811 00:45:17,680 --> 00:45:20,840 Speaker 2: by Anna Stumf and Hamilton Lighthauser and Your hosts and 812 00:45:20,920 --> 00:45:24,560 Speaker 2: executive producers are Bryce Abel, That's Me and Brent Friedman. 813 00:45:24,880 --> 00:45:25,720 Speaker 2: Watch the GUIs