Speaker 1: And now Move the Sticks with Daniel Jeremiah and Bucky Brooks.
Speaker 2: Welcome to Move the Sticks. I am Bucky Brooks and
Speaker 2: my man Mike Yam, who is sitting in for DJ.
Speaker 2: We just hosted how many hours of coverage, like almost
Speaker 2: five hours of coverage, wars of coverage, and we saw
Speaker 2: the first round and we're gonna get into everything that
Speaker 2: we saw in the first round. We're gonna talk about
Speaker 2: the quarterback sh Dr Sanders, who is on the outside
Speaker 2: looking in. Uh, but let's get into it. It's time
Speaker 2: for Hot or Not brought to you by Saby Hot
Speaker 2: Cloud Storage Yam or overall thoughts on the first round.
Speaker 2: I just got to get your take on.
Speaker 1: Okay, So can we just rewind for a second. First
Speaker 1: of all, I'm sitting in for DJ, so there's automatically
Speaker 1: I'm like, what are we doing right now? Then I
Speaker 1: find out I'm working with you, so obviously I'm excited
Speaker 1: because I get to yeah, but then it's taking another level.
Speaker 1: I'm I'm used to running point yeah, I just get
Speaker 1: out of the off the wall. We put the headsets
Speaker 1: on Bucks like, Yo, I got you. I said, oh, okay, okay,
Speaker 1: I'll step back here. This is awesome. Look, you and
Speaker 1: I were doing mock draft live on NFL Network for
Speaker 1: a few weeks. So the fact that we get this
Speaker 1: first round and we get to actually see how it
Speaker 1: plays out and unfold, there wasn't a huge surprise. I
Speaker 1: think clearly the trades. I thought it was gonna be
Speaker 1: relatively quiet. I didn't think you could be a ton
Speaker 1: of splashes, and I do think in the scope when
Speaker 1: you compare it to previous years, like there weren't really
Speaker 1: a ton of trades. But we saw aggressive moves, which
Speaker 1: I like the teams that decided to go and move up,
Speaker 1: like the Jacks, a team that you know really well
Speaker 1: because you're part of that radio broadcast. They said, look,
Speaker 1: we're gonna take a swing. We're gonna go and get
Speaker 1: Travis Hunter, and I know you love him. But then
Speaker 1: on top of that, the Giants and the Falcons ATL
Speaker 1: was a little bit of a surprise. But I love
Speaker 1: what they did because they took two big swings on
Speaker 1: the defensive side and when they've had some issues, I
Speaker 1: love that try to get some dudes that can get
Speaker 1: after the quarterback. And then the Giants, you know, I yeah,
Speaker 1: you rock.
Speaker 2: With the Giants. So let's talk about all the trades,
Speaker 2: like right off the top, the Jacksonman Jaguars moving from
Speaker 2: five to two to get Travis Hunter. The thing about
Speaker 2: the Travis Hunter pick is and talking to people in
Speaker 2: the building, they say, like the three Jews that were
Speaker 2: on their board that were really covenant, it was Travis Hunter,
Speaker 2: it was Asking Gent and then it was Ted McMillan.
Speaker 2: That was the way that they saw, like offensively, they
Speaker 2: wanted to add somebody with some splash, some bizazz to
Speaker 2: that offense for them to make the move to get
Speaker 2: Travis Hunter. One, it tells me that Liam Coin and
Speaker 2: James glaston are all in on trying to make this
Speaker 2: team better in a hurry. Two. They talked about James
Speaker 2: glastone and talked about having the intangible qualities if you
Speaker 2: get the players that the rite intangible to the culture
Speaker 2: in the locker room changes organically because you're bringing the
Speaker 2: right people in and whatever. Well, we know Travis Hunter.
Speaker 2: He is about football, he's about fishing. He is all ball,
Speaker 2: all the time, terrific player and then a unique talent
Speaker 2: as a two way player. So I'm just curious on
Speaker 2: how that's going to work for them in terms of
Speaker 2: what is the plan? But then the trades and the
Speaker 2: reason I'm gonna go to the Giants before we go
Speaker 2: to the Falcons is I'm looking at Abdull Carter at
Speaker 2: three and when they made the move to get Abdul
Speaker 2: cart I'm like, okay, well, that play to their identity
Speaker 2: when they've been at their best. The D line kind
Speaker 2: of sets the tone. We saw them knock off the
Speaker 2: Patriots twice because their D line was so dominant, like
Speaker 2: it worked. But then the question is why they can
Speaker 2: get a quarterback. If they do get a quarterback, who's
Speaker 2: going to be the quarterback? So they trade back in
Speaker 2: they get into twenty five, they get Jackson Dart and look,
Speaker 2: Jackson Dart's name has been popping up as been a
Speaker 2: first round that debt was not a question, but Jackson
Speaker 2: dark going Overshowder Sanders as the preferred pick for the Giants.
Speaker 2: That is the conversation that we'll have over the next
Speaker 2: few years.
Speaker 1: Okay, So there's a lot to unpack on what you
Speaker 1: just said. I want to circle back on the Giants
Speaker 1: for a moment, but I think you have this experience
Speaker 1: that I think needs to be shared here. Obviously as
Speaker 1: a scout. You've been in a lot of these draft rooms,
Speaker 1: You've done the talent evaluation. You know what these conversations are. Like,
Speaker 1: I talk to a lot of fans and they'll say, oh,
Speaker 1: first round guy, Not every team has a first round
Speaker 1: grade on all thirty two players. And I think what
Speaker 1: you just said about the Jacks is fascinating because you said,
Speaker 1: who's on the board that they really like, Like Travis
Speaker 1: Hunter was one of those guys to Max and then
Speaker 1: jenty right and whoever whatever that order is. I don't
Speaker 1: know if there's I don't know thirty one other teams
Speaker 1: that would have had it necessarily lay out like that.
Speaker 1: And the reality is, like, I just think it's really
Speaker 1: important to have and set that distinction because Teed McMillan's
Speaker 1: a great example. I hadn't heard his name as one
Speaker 1: of these eleaite players, and yet you're telling me the
Speaker 1: Jags had him.
Speaker 2: The Jacks had him right there. So it's funny, right
Speaker 2: because when it played out, and this kind of tells
Speaker 2: you about the entire process, because the way that the
Speaker 2: process started, Ted McMillan was the name that we had
Speaker 2: talked about up in the top five. Sure, the entire
Speaker 2: time when those mock drafts came out early, Ted McMillan's
Speaker 2: name was always dotted in the top ten. Then it
Speaker 2: kind of fell out, and then it was a conversation like, hey,
Speaker 2: he might not be wide receiver one because I wasn't
Speaker 2: including Travis Hunter's wide receiver one, so oh, maybe you
Speaker 2: know somebody else is there. And then law and behold,
Speaker 2: the Jaguars get their guy in Travis Hunter, asking jend
Speaker 2: comes off the board at six, and then Tied McMillan
Speaker 2: comes off the board at eight. And so when we
Speaker 2: talk about the Jaguars having their board rank like that, look,
Speaker 2: I can't say they're wrong based on the way those
Speaker 2: guys came off the board.
Speaker 1: Okay, So from a strategy standpoint, though, if you're Jacksonville
Speaker 1: and it was Travis Hunter, Gent and t mac why
Speaker 1: make the move then to go to two because presumably
Speaker 1: you would have been able to get one of those
Speaker 1: guys at five.
Speaker 2: Because they felt that strongly that Travis Hunter it was
Speaker 2: that so when I rated off those names, it would
Speaker 2: be Travis Hunter. Long pause, asked Gent, then Ted McMillan.
Speaker 2: So they felt that strongly about what Travis Hunter brings
Speaker 2: as a dynamic two way player that they wanted to
Speaker 2: get him, and it had not only had to be
Speaker 2: the talent that we saw. We saw the talent for
Speaker 2: two years of Colorado and we also saw it at
Speaker 2: Jackson State. But it's more the kid, the person, what
Speaker 2: he's bringing, how much he loves the game, all of
Speaker 2: those other things that really stood out to them. So
Speaker 2: we're doing the change over the transformation of the team.
Speaker 2: That is why they wanted him to spear hit the charge.
Speaker 2: I want to ask you, as a resident Giants fan,
Speaker 2: Abdul Carter, like, that's one thing I think you get
Speaker 2: excited about that He had posted a week or so
Speaker 2: ago the pitcher of Lawrence Taylor, So everyone kind of knew, like, oh, okay,
Speaker 2: that's cool, But I gotta get your take, man. The
Speaker 2: Giants have kind of been in the desert looking for
Speaker 2: a franchise quarterback. Jackson Dart. What's the first thing that
Speaker 2: came to mind when you heard the name associated with
Speaker 2: the Giants.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I was surprised. I wasn't surprised that the Giants
Speaker 1: moved back into the first round. I was surprised that
Speaker 1: it was Jackson Dart that was the name for a
Speaker 1: couple reasons. Number one, just the buzz around Shador Sanders.
Speaker 1: I do flash back to neighbors and Sanders in the streets,
Speaker 1: you know, a couple months ago, kind of playing catch,
Speaker 1: clearly being linked there, and we spent and buck you
Speaker 1: know this man, Like I spent a lot of time
Speaker 1: covering college football, and it did feel like cam Warden
Speaker 1: Shador Sanders. This was the conversation who was going to
Speaker 1: be the first overall pick? And as the draft process unfolded,
Speaker 1: I said, oh, you know, maybe we're not talking about him.
Speaker 2: You and I were.
Speaker 1: We did a couple of mock draft lives. I'm like, damn,
Speaker 1: like you guys really don't think Shador's going all this high,
Speaker 1: and yet clearly that didn't happen. The Jackson Dart angle
Speaker 1: is intriguing to me because the first thing I think
Speaker 1: about is when I used to watch Jackson Dart at
Speaker 1: USC and then you transition to Ole Miss and he's
Speaker 1: playing for Lane Kiff him and I don't always know
Speaker 1: what to make of a quarterback that's played for Lane
Speaker 1: because the reality is like it's just and I don't
Speaker 1: mean this in a disrespectful way, but it's inflated numbers,
Speaker 1: you know, Like Lane's an offensive dude, and he figures
Speaker 1: out brilliantly how to get the ball into his playmaker's hands.
Speaker 1: What I love about Jackson Dart. I remember watching a
Speaker 1: lot of games this year where he's got a little
Speaker 1: oomph too, right, Like we use the term swag on
Speaker 1: our show on Draft Night, and I think that's appropriate.
Speaker 1: But there's a little moxie attitude leadership thing. And I
Speaker 1: think back to Brian Dable and more specifically, and I'm
Speaker 1: going to relate this to Giants fans or just fans
Speaker 1: in general of the NFL when you watch Hard Knocks
Speaker 1: and you see how Brian Dable is peppering the quarterbacks
Speaker 1: where they're considering who to draft, and Bron's got a
Speaker 1: little bit of that tude, a little bit of that attitude,
Speaker 1: and in a good way, right, like you can try
Speaker 1: to coach up his guys. I think Jackson Dart's going
Speaker 1: to respond really well to that. But I don't. I
Speaker 1: candidly thought there was a world that existed where the
Speaker 1: Giants and Jalen mil Row was going to be that marriage.
Speaker 1: I watched Jalen. I see those traits physically, and I
Speaker 1: see so much damn upside. And if you're telling me
Speaker 1: that Russ is going to be your week one starter,
Speaker 1: jamis is in the fold of security. There's a part
Speaker 1: of me that thinks that that Jalen mill Roll might
Speaker 1: have been a better fit. Now, once again, that wasn't
Speaker 1: the case for the Giants and Jackson Darts their guy,
Speaker 1: but they have been able to now check the box
Speaker 1: and say, we got arguably the best player in this
Speaker 1: draft in an Abdul Carter, which is going to help
Speaker 1: that defense, and we have the quarterback of the future.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's so funny to kind of hear the conversation
Speaker 2: and how they finally went about it. They wanted to
Speaker 2: make sure that they got their quarterback of the future.
Speaker 2: And Jackson Dart to me was interesting because I felt
Speaker 2: like early in the process he was underrated, and then
Speaker 2: I worried about him being a little overrated. And I'm
Speaker 2: looking at this piece that I wrote. Not it didn't
Speaker 2: appear on NFL dot com, but look, I wrote about
Speaker 2: athletic gunslinger developing one or more efficient explosive playmakers of
Speaker 2: college football on a three year run at Old Miss,
Speaker 2: big play mentality, spartaner offense lit up scoreboys back to
Speaker 2: back seasons with ten wins six two, two thirty three,
Speaker 2: two twenty three all the traits that you look for
Speaker 2: quarterback deep ball proficiency, hits the strike zone, works the
Speaker 2: entire feel, and then the scheme produces easy completions. But
Speaker 2: his arm talent squeezes ball in the tight windows, velocity, touch, timing,
Speaker 2: anticipation gets it done. Has enough athleticism to pick up
Speaker 2: first downs on designed quarterback runs and scrambles. NFL coaches
Speaker 2: can feature a wide variety of schemes to maximize its
Speaker 2: talents as a QB one and at the bottom of
Speaker 2: it are approximated round value. Oh, bottom of.
Speaker 1: The first Okay, so you nailed it.
Speaker 2: So I mean, like, that's that's what I had. And
Speaker 2: so it's it's funny to see that play out. But
Speaker 2: when you read the report and then you look at
Speaker 2: the round value, he went exactly where he was supposed
Speaker 2: to go on the board.
Speaker 1: Okay, let me ask you this then, because I'm off
Speaker 1: the top of the dome, I don't think there's another
Speaker 1: team where there's as much. I hate using the term
Speaker 1: hot seat because I think, you know, these are families,
Speaker 1: people who have family, you know, and it's not just
Speaker 1: the coach, like, there's support staff, the whole thing. So
Speaker 1: you don't ever want to see anyone lose their job.
Speaker 1: The reality of the situation is franchises make changes. The
Speaker 1: thought was the Giants were going to make a move
Speaker 1: with Joe Shane or Brian Daball. That didn't happen. But
Speaker 1: Marrack comes out and says, we need to win right now.
Speaker 1: I don't know if there's another team in the NFL
Speaker 1: in this situation right like the teams that struggle, they
Speaker 1: already have their new head coaches. I don't know if
Speaker 1: there's another organization right now that says their general manager
Speaker 1: and head coach are on the hot seat like the
Speaker 1: Giants are. That's not the best way to approach the
Speaker 1: draft because you're thinking, I'm not worried about two seasons
Speaker 1: from now, and most people will tell you that's probably
Speaker 1: the case for every team, But it does feel different
Speaker 1: for this squad. Was there a different move to be
Speaker 1: made at trading in at twenty five instead and just
Speaker 1: maybe sitting tight or just going in a different direction
Speaker 1: because of the thought process that comes with having to
Speaker 1: win the season.
Speaker 2: No, you know, it's funny because I would give this
Speaker 2: heaving work with Joe Shane. We worked together in Carolina,
Speaker 2: and I know that Joe's wired the right way when
Speaker 2: it comes to building a team. And what they did
Speaker 2: in the offseason is they set themselves up where they
Speaker 2: didn't have to make a rash move at three to
Speaker 2: fit a need because they went out and signed Russell
Speaker 2: Wilson and Jameis Winston. They felt like if they had
Speaker 2: to put the ball down today, they could play with
Speaker 2: the starting quarterback and have enough talent in the quarterback
Speaker 2: room to win. That freed them up to take the
Speaker 2: best player available at three and Abdual Carter. And then
Speaker 2: when they made that move at three, I am sure
Speaker 2: as soon as they handed it in the cord, they
Speaker 2: started making sure they worked the phones to see when
Speaker 2: could we potentially get back in and if we are
Speaker 2: getting back in, what are the names that we would
Speaker 2: get back into the first round with? Because it couldn't
Speaker 2: just be Jackson Dart as the only quarterback that they
Speaker 2: would move in, because look, he could have been gone
Speaker 2: at any spot. Were they multiple names and what were those?
Speaker 2: Was it Jackson Dart, Shoulder Sanders An Tyler shut was
Speaker 2: a Jackson dor Tyler Shut. They had to be comfortable
Speaker 2: with multiple quarterbacks to be able to get back in
Speaker 2: the first round to say, hey, we're good. We gonna
Speaker 2: get our quarterback of the future at the bottom of
Speaker 2: round one.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's it's wild to me when I think about
Speaker 1: the direction of this organization over the next couple of years.
Speaker 1: And I hate to play in the world of hypotheticals,
Speaker 1: but had some games not necessarily gone their way late
Speaker 1: in the season, they might not have picking at number three.
Speaker 2: I think.
Speaker 1: I hate to say it this way, but like, even
Speaker 1: if they were picking at two, I don't know. I
Speaker 1: think Abdul Carter might still have been the selection for him.
Speaker 2: Look, I think you can make a reasonable assessment or
Speaker 2: prediction that that would have been the pick. Like, Abdul
Speaker 2: Carter is a dominant player. And when I look at
Speaker 2: the ward and I look at the players that were
Speaker 2: available in this JEFT, Travis Hunderd was one for me,
Speaker 2: abduall Carter was two. They were comfortable taking either one
Speaker 2: of those guys, and they would have been fine. Abdul
Speaker 2: Carter works if it's the brand, and so like I
Speaker 2: love it now. Ultimately, both the guys have to play
Speaker 2: really well. So after Carter is the one who has
Speaker 2: the i'll say the most pressure because he's the top
Speaker 2: five pick. He has to play like that right away.
Speaker 2: You think about Cavon Tippeau, who's number five overall pick.
Speaker 2: He hasn't necessarily played like that. They need both of
Speaker 2: their top five picks to play like that because you
Speaker 2: have a level of expectation. And Jackson Dart fans will
Speaker 2: have an expectation of what the quarterback should be. But
Speaker 2: he was taking at the bottom of the first round.
Speaker 2: There should be time given and grace given to him
Speaker 2: before he becomes a starting quarterback. And look, Russell Wilson,
Speaker 2: Jameis Winston, they're there to really kind of hold it
Speaker 2: down until Jackson Dart is ready to be able to
Speaker 2: do it.
Speaker 1: Yeah, you say that. And yet off air, while we
Speaker 1: were having conversations about the city of New York, you know,
Speaker 1: every city's not treated the same way.
Speaker 2: I did not go treat it like no man, no,
Speaker 2: like when Jackson Dart was drafted in the first round.
Speaker 2: Away we go, poor Tommy Cutlets.
Speaker 3: It's like he anywhere, But like Jackson Dart, the clock
Speaker 3: is on, like now, all the kind conversation through our
Speaker 3: training camp is gonna be when Jackson are gonna be
Speaker 3: ready to play, And so Russell and Jameis Winston have
Speaker 3: to give the coaching staff and the fans enough to
Speaker 3: kind of stay them off, like, no, we have a plan,
Speaker 3: we have a plan for him.
Speaker 2: But here's the tricky thing, Cam Brian day Ball and
Speaker 2: Joe Shane win enough to get to the other side
Speaker 2: where they can see Jackson dark next year as the
Speaker 2: starting quarterback. They have to win enough games to kind
Speaker 2: of keep everyone at bay to be able to do
Speaker 2: it unless the ownership is saying no, no, no, you good
Speaker 2: you got this year regards of the record, then we
Speaker 2: get it next year. But I don't know of New
Speaker 2: York having enough patience to sit through another disappointing year
Speaker 2: from the Giants. No.
Speaker 1: I mean, you think about all that media and the
Speaker 1: lens that's there, and look, that's home for me. I
Speaker 1: grew up there. So you're talking about two all sports stations,
Speaker 1: two regional sports television networks. It is all eyes on
Speaker 1: this squad. And taking a step further here, the Jets
Speaker 1: don't have Aaron Rodgers anymore, so that story is now gone.
Speaker 1: They're punting on that the Justin Field could be.
Speaker 2: A great doesn't have as much noise as the Giant Little.
Speaker 2: Let's be honest, the Giants. The Giants owned the Apple
Speaker 2: like they're the stable the franchise there. I mean, they're
Speaker 2: a squad. So everyone is going to look to them now,
Speaker 2: just like everyone looks to the Giants. I'm looking at
Speaker 2: the rest of the top ten. Will Cambell goes forward
Speaker 2: to the Patriots, Mason Graham Cleveland at five, asking genty
Speaker 2: to the Raiders at six. I'm on Membo to the
Speaker 2: Justin seven, Ted McMillan at eight, Kelvin Banks Junior to
Speaker 2: the Saints at nine, and then Coaston Loveland at ten.
Speaker 2: Of the picks, and I'll let you go after me. Sure,
Speaker 2: number six asking genty to the Raiders was the one
Speaker 2: that stood out. And to sit out because we know
Speaker 2: Pete Carroll. You were on the West Coast and Peek
Speaker 2: Carroll was doing his thing. He's always had running backs
Speaker 2: when his programs have operated at their best. And go
Speaker 2: back to like sc Lindelle White and Reggie Bush, Seattle
Speaker 2: Sea Yawks. It was about Marshawn Lynch. You just had
Speaker 2: to know that the Raiders under Pete Carroll. They're going
Speaker 2: to have a blue chip running back, so I knew
Speaker 2: that was coming, but it still stood out that they
Speaker 2: were able to get them totally.
Speaker 1: And I say this because you know how excited I was.
Speaker 1: This is my first year having a vote Genty. It
Speaker 1: was hard for me not to pick Ashon Genty as
Speaker 1: the leader. And when you do the rankings, it's one, two,
Speaker 1: and three, and you know, for me, it ended up
Speaker 1: being obviously Travis Hunter because of the special nature. But Genty,
Speaker 1: the numbers alone speak for themselves the impact that he had.
Speaker 1: We were doing our draft show with Lancer Aline, who
Speaker 1: talked about a week offensive line and yet still you know,
Speaker 1: historic type numbers from Genty. You know, for me, Carolina
Speaker 1: at eight, I talked to a buddy of mine who's
Speaker 1: around that team a whole lot, and I said, hey,
Speaker 1: what direction do they go? Because I felt like there
Speaker 1: was going to be a team that looked at the
Speaker 1: eighth position and said, that's the trade spot. I want
Speaker 1: to get ahead of it. I want to get ahead
Speaker 1: of what the New Orleans Saints might do at number nine,
Speaker 1: which clearly wasn't the case because they took Kelvin Banks.
Speaker 1: I thought maybe the Steelers might be one of those
Speaker 1: teams that didn't happen, And I asked him to say, hey,
Speaker 1: what direction he goes. Look, there's some needs that are here,
Speaker 1: but I would be if there's not another piece around
Speaker 1: Bryce Young because the reclamation process that we saw even
Speaker 1: in one year for Bryce was pretty pretty spectacular. And look,
Speaker 1: they drafted Lagette that's been okay for them. I don't know.
Speaker 1: I think it became abundantly clear it was going to
Speaker 1: be wide receiver. We just didn't know which one it was.
Speaker 1: And the fact that it was an explosive guy like
Speaker 1: t Mac who once again was terrific playing at Arizona
Speaker 1: not a huge surprise for me.
Speaker 2: Picks eleven to twenty Mikhael Williams to San Francisco forty
Speaker 2: nine Ers, Tyler Booker Dallas Cowboys, Kenneth Grant Miami Dolphins,
Speaker 2: Tyler Warren Indianapolis goes, Jalen Walker Atlanta Falcons, walked to
Speaker 2: Nolan Arizona Cardon, Shamar Stewart Cincinnati Bengals, Great Zabels, Seattle Seahawks,
Speaker 2: A Mecca Abuka nineteen to the Den Bay Buccaneers, and
Speaker 2: then Jedi Baron going to the Denver Broncos. When I
Speaker 2: look at that list, the one that stands out to
Speaker 2: me in terms of the best pick, best fit Tyler
Speaker 2: Booker going to the Dallas Cowboys. The Dallas Cowboys the
Speaker 2: offensive line. They lose Zach Martin last couple of years.
Speaker 2: They're trying to kind of piecemeal this offensive line, kind
Speaker 2: of get it back and going. They've really invested in that,
Speaker 2: and to me, Taler Booker is the final piece of
Speaker 2: the puzzle on the offensive line. Replacing a legend in
Speaker 2: Zach Martin is going to be tough. But when we
Speaker 2: think about what this team wants to be under Brian Schottenheimer,
Speaker 2: a rough and rugged, a physical team that can run
Speaker 2: the football, Tyler Booker fits the bill. I mean he
Speaker 2: moves people off the ball. He is physical, he's nasty,
Speaker 2: he's a tempo center, and I just think he fits
Speaker 2: in with how they want to play. I would expect
Speaker 2: them to be a very physical team at the point
Speaker 2: of attack, and that's going to not only help them
Speaker 2: find their running game, it's going to take a lot
Speaker 2: of pressure off Dak Prescott.
Speaker 1: No more excuses for the Dallas Cowboys. Three concut Like,
Speaker 1: look at this offensive line, man we every single year, Buck,
Speaker 1: and you and I do enough shows together on NFL
Speaker 1: Network where I go what's going on with this Dallas
Speaker 1: Cowboys team? And we both know when they were rocking
Speaker 1: in the nineties, it wasn't just because of Emmett Smith
Speaker 1: and IRV and Troy Aikman. You look at those bad
Speaker 1: boys up front and allowing a guy like eMTA to
Speaker 1: do the damage that he's done. We have talked about
Speaker 1: the issues that they've had on offensive line for a
Speaker 1: few seasons now, Tyler Geiton, Tyler Smith, now Tyler Booker.
Speaker 1: It's three consecutive years of three first round offensive linemen.
Speaker 1: No more excuses. This has got to be the year
Speaker 1: for this team to thrive. And I wasn't surprised that
Speaker 1: they went there. I thought it could be running back.
Speaker 1: In fact, I thought Hampton could be the guy, the
Speaker 1: player that I know you kept close eyes on because
Speaker 1: of your North Carolina ties. There the only other team
Speaker 1: that I would throw and maybe Sandwich this year. Jaalen Walker,
Speaker 1: who would land of Falcons at fifteen. I thought was
Speaker 1: a spectacular pick because it's a really good player and
Speaker 1: a position of need for it. And they obviously double down,
Speaker 1: which we can talk about coming up in just a
Speaker 1: couple minutes. But Tampa Bay, I loved your assessment of
Speaker 1: Abuka because I don't know what you do in that
Speaker 1: wide receiver room, but you highlight this, you know pretty well.
Speaker 1: Got another year for Mike Evans and then who kind
Speaker 1: of knows what happens, But it's an embarrassment of riches
Speaker 1: in that wide receiver room.
Speaker 2: Embarrassment of riches. And this is Jason Light and Toy
Speaker 2: Bowles making sure that Baker Mayfield has what he needs
Speaker 2: to be successful. A Mecca Buka coming in being the
Speaker 2: number three receiver alongside Chris Godwin and Mike Evans. I mean,
Speaker 2: just a big, physical wide receiver room and for an
Speaker 2: undersized quarterback, it expands the strike zone. It makes it easy,
Speaker 2: but it also creates a succession plan in case Mike
Speaker 2: Evan moves on after this year and if he stays man,
Speaker 2: who I mean, who better to learn from than a
Speaker 2: guy who's been a perennial pro bowler, another guy who's
Speaker 2: an outstanding playmaker and Chris gott I just think it
Speaker 2: makes so much sense. And when I look at him,
Speaker 2: Mecca book, he's a pro man. He is a pro
Speaker 2: you see it. He is polished, he's seasoned, he has it.
Speaker 2: To me, it's just a nice fit for what they
Speaker 2: want offensively to do and how they want to do it.
Speaker 2: And then twentieth pig Ver Bronco's taking Jedi Baron. We
Speaker 2: talked about running back, I mean, Sean Bayton talked about
Speaker 2: running backs that we all were kind of waiting for
Speaker 2: the running back to go, but them taking look Man
Speaker 2: one of the best defensive players that we've seen in
Speaker 2: the class and arguably, like people say, like the best
Speaker 2: corner because he can do so much jim Thorpe, w Wardwick,
Speaker 2: versatile instincts, awareness, toughness. I just like putting him beside
Speaker 2: Pat Sortan and being able to do so many things
Speaker 2: in a secondary.
Speaker 1: On your way, Yeah, I'd love to know how scouts
Speaker 1: front offices look at FCS players on the offensive line.
Speaker 1: And I bring this up because Gray is Able goes
Speaker 1: to Seattle at eighteen North Dakota State kid, you and
Speaker 1: I were getting together for the East West Shrine. Bul
Speaker 1: I told the story Timpolasek, who's got that offensive line mentality?
Speaker 1: I mean, the guy must have dropped more fbombs in
Speaker 1: a Fifthe conversation when I was when I was asking
Speaker 1: him about his quarterback than anything, but he wanted to
Speaker 1: talk about oh Li. Told me a lot about Zabel
Speaker 1: and why he was going to be a next level player.
Speaker 1: I do think a little bit about Trevor Penning as
Speaker 1: another one that maybe hasn't lived up to the hype.
Speaker 1: How do you go to the mat on a guy
Speaker 1: that you've scouted when it's not power for football, it's
Speaker 1: not the SEC. And yet clearly that didn't scare Seattle.
Speaker 2: It didn't. And it's funny because John Snyder, look, he
Speaker 2: learned under Ron Wolf. Ron Wolf, Hall of fame executive
Speaker 2: Green Bay Packers longtime general manager, and Ron Wolf was
Speaker 2: not a small school fan. He wanted to see guys
Speaker 2: come from big schools because guys with big schools and
Speaker 2: winning predigrees understand what it's like and they're more likely
Speaker 2: to transition very quickly into the National Football League. But
Speaker 2: when you do take a small school standard And I
Speaker 2: remember having this conversation with Ron I called him and
Speaker 2: it was when I was scouting Vincent Jackson who was
Speaker 2: at Northern Colorado, and I asked him what did he
Speaker 2: see from Terall Lawns when Tera Lawns was at UT Chattanooga,
Speaker 2: he said, when you're looking at small school standouts, do
Speaker 2: they dominate their level of competition? And when they have
Speaker 2: opportunities to play or level up, how do they perform?
Speaker 2: The thing that probably convinced the Seattle Seahawks on Gray
Speaker 2: Zabel his performance at the Seniu Bowl. On top of
Speaker 2: his tape at North Dakota State, he held his own and
Speaker 2: dominated the time in the singable, which gave them confidence
Speaker 2: that it may take some time, but he has the
Speaker 2: stuff to be able to be a successful pro at
Speaker 2: the level.
Speaker 1: Is there a position group that you guys would consider
Speaker 1: at an FCS level that was maybe stronger because once
Speaker 1: again it's a big boy up front versus and you
Speaker 1: just name name checked a couple wide receivers.
Speaker 2: Yeah. No, I mean look, I think it comes down
Speaker 2: to the same thing, like how do they play when
Speaker 2: they have to play against the competition that they will
Speaker 2: see at the NFL level? Can you see him at
Speaker 2: an All Star game? When they are at an All
Speaker 2: Star game, do they hold it on? Do they look
Speaker 2: out of place? If they don't look out of place, well, man,
Speaker 2: how competitive are they with some of the best of
Speaker 2: the best and the thing that you saw in the
Speaker 2: tape on Gray Zabel at the game, he not only
Speaker 2: held his own but he won plenty of reps against
Speaker 2: top competition, which made it a figure. When you take someone
Speaker 2: in the middle of the first round for almost small school,
Speaker 2: you're saying, oh, no, no, this guy's gonna come in and
Speaker 2: play play right well, play well right away, and his
Speaker 2: position flexibility gives you a few options in terms of
Speaker 2: trying to put him in a place where he can
Speaker 2: be most successful that should help him succeed.
Speaker 1: Yeah, no, I'm with you there. And once again, I
Speaker 1: just think it's fascinating a remade Seattle team when you
Speaker 1: consider Sam Darnold is now in the fold a wide
Speaker 1: receiver room that looks like a shellman nothing, it's essentially
Speaker 1: brand new, and yet with their first pick in round
Speaker 1: number one, it's an FCS player.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Look, it's very interesting. But you know what also
Speaker 2: was interesting The Pittsburgh stale is at twenty one, taking
Speaker 2: Derek Harmon, Amario Hampton going twenty two to the La Charges,
Speaker 2: Matthew Golden going to the Packers at twenty three, Donovan
Speaker 2: Jackson to the Minnesota Vikings Giants, taking Jackson Dart Atlanta
Speaker 2: Falcon has taken James Fears Junior at twenty six, Malachi
Speaker 2: Stark's going twenty seven to the Ravens, Tyler Williams coming
Speaker 2: off the board at twenty eight to the Detroit Lions,
Speaker 2: Josh Connelly twenty nine to the Commander's, max Or Harriston
Speaker 2: going to the Buffalo Bills at thirty and then we're
Speaker 2: finished off. John Campbell going to the Eagles at thirty one,
Speaker 2: and Josh Simmons at thirty two to the Kansite Chiefs.
Speaker 2: And I'm gonna say this because I had a little
Speaker 2: egg on my face. Matthew Gold and breaking the streak.
Speaker 2: The Green Bay Packers took a wide receiver twenty three overall,
Speaker 2: first time since two thousand and two that they have
Speaker 2: taken a wide receiver in the first round. You already
Speaker 2: had the end deal, you baiting me into it, so
Speaker 2: right there and look he goes. I am surprised, but
Speaker 2: then I'm not only because when you paid Jordan Love
Speaker 2: the kind of money that they paid him, you want
Speaker 2: to make sure that he has success. Josh Jacobs said, man,
Speaker 2: we need a number one receiver. We need a guy,
Speaker 2: and for your starting running back. We ran for over
Speaker 2: thirteen hundred yards to say that we need a number
Speaker 2: one receiver. It means that he feels the impact of
Speaker 2: not having that. Either the box is clouded, the offense
Speaker 2: doesn't go. It's just a little different. He needs more
Speaker 2: room and he know what and number one receiver would
Speaker 2: do for him. And so him calling out for a
Speaker 2: number one receiver maybe the front off his listen. And
Speaker 2: they decided that Matthew Golden was going to be a guy.
Speaker 1: Kind of weird man. They listening to him, but it
Speaker 1: wasn't Rogers kind of jumping up and down for a
Speaker 1: couple of seasons hoping to get one of these players.
Speaker 1: One observation here, and I'm gonna steal with something that
Speaker 1: David Carr had told me because at the end of
Speaker 1: the season, DC and I were talking. I said, hey, man,
Speaker 1: Green Bay is a really good team that's so close.
Speaker 1: This is a young receiver room. Last year was first
Speaker 1: and second year of players that were their contributors. They
Speaker 1: go again in round number one and they take a wide,
Speaker 1: but not again. They do it for the first time
Speaker 1: to two thousand and two, but they double down in
Speaker 1: terms of trying to add some weapons there. I said, DC, like,
Speaker 1: what do they need? And he said, the one thing
Speaker 1: that I would point to is is a guy that
Speaker 1: could take it over the top, Like who's that speedzer,
Speaker 1: who can stretch the defenses, who can get you really
Speaker 1: those big explosive plays. And Matthew Golden seems to be
Speaker 1: able to check that box just based off of the
Speaker 1: speed level. And I know, obviously you got to watch
Speaker 1: a ton of him at Texas. It did feel like
Speaker 1: when they needed a big play, he was the obvious
Speaker 1: target and.
Speaker 2: That was really apparent when he watched it in the playoff,
Speaker 2: when they needed a play, they went to him, and look,
Speaker 2: there was another decorated player opposite of Isaiah Bond, But
Speaker 2: when it came down to it, the ball went to
Speaker 2: Matthew Golden. And the fact that he went from Houston
Speaker 2: to Texas and kind of swiped the number one role
Speaker 2: from others that look, this speaks volumes about his play.
Speaker 2: Now someone else. And we were talking about the Atlanta
Speaker 2: Falcons trading. They got Jalen Walker at fifteen, but James
Speaker 2: Pierce at twenty six. You talked about the Falcons liking
Speaker 2: their moves. What was it about these power moves?
Speaker 1: That you love the fact that this has been a
Speaker 1: team so deficient at creating pressure on quarterbacks. I was
Speaker 1: fortunate enough to be down in Atlanta in August for
Speaker 1: training camp, and you talk to the fans down there,
Speaker 1: you talk to their coaching staff. Terry Fotteau was one
Speaker 1: of our guests, and it was abundantly clear, Hey, like,
Speaker 1: we need to be better on the defensive side. They
Speaker 1: were thirty first in the NFL in sacks a season ago.
Speaker 1: I don't think it was much better two seasons ago,
Speaker 1: and yet it didn't get better last season. And I
Speaker 1: think what's fascinating is they took a page out of
Speaker 1: what the Eagles did a year ago and say, hey,
Speaker 1: we got some questions on that secondary. We're gonna double dip.
Speaker 1: We're going to take two guys in round number one.
Speaker 1: I think the Falcons were ridiculously aggressive. I love that
Speaker 1: they were aggressive last year in a different regard by
Speaker 1: taking Michael Pennix when they did, and then this year
Speaker 1: they said, you know what, We're not going to have
Speaker 1: that excuse and in division that is gettable. Right now.
Speaker 1: They gotta feel Pennix can ball. We feel good about
Speaker 1: him being a missing piece and if we're remotely better
Speaker 1: on the defensive side. Maybe that's enough to really push
Speaker 1: a Tampa Bay squad.
Speaker 2: Dude, they are all in. They made an aggressive move
Speaker 2: a year ago when they got Michael Penix while they
Speaker 2: had Kirk Cousins already in the building. The incadn't even
Speaker 2: drive it on this contract, and they go and get
Speaker 2: a number one pick. And then this year, Terry final
Speaker 2: goes doubles down very aggressive to go and get James
Speaker 2: Pennis to pair him with Jalen Walker. And we can
Speaker 2: say a lot of things about what they have, but
Speaker 2: now they have two guys that can get after the passer,
Speaker 2: albeit in different ways. Jalen Walker, being a hybrid linebacker,
Speaker 2: can play inside off ball but then down and come
Speaker 2: off the edge, which should make him a really intriguing
Speaker 2: and impressive blitzer. And then James Spears, who can line up,
Speaker 2: come off the edge and win with speed and just explosiveness.
Speaker 2: It is gon'na be fun to watch this Atlanta Falcon
Speaker 2: team kind of get it together. And one thing that
Speaker 2: you have to understand when you're a team builder, you're
Speaker 2: building your team to also play in your stadium. So
Speaker 2: these two fast guys playing on a turf, it's the
Speaker 2: Mercedes Benz Dome, whatever we call it. But being able
Speaker 2: to get off that that should certainly helped them. And
Speaker 2: I want to go to pick right after Pierce comes
Speaker 2: off the boards, Malachot starts going to the Baltimore Ravens.
Speaker 2: The Ravens for years have traditionally drafted just really good
Speaker 2: footballs at football players at all levels of the draft,
Speaker 2: and Starts been a high IQ player, a guy that's
Speaker 2: a combo safety mining he can play in the box
Speaker 2: and play in the deep middle, a guy who really
Speaker 2: compliments Kyle Hamilton will and man, look, I know they
Speaker 2: had gotten good player from a Darius Washington, but for
Speaker 2: two first round safeties, that secondary is going to get
Speaker 2: back to playing the way that they played when they
Speaker 2: played really good defense in the past.
Speaker 1: Where did you have Starks going? Was is this the
Speaker 1: right range? I only asked because a couple of years ago,
Speaker 1: Kyle Hamilton we didn't talk about. I don't remember the exact.
Speaker 2: Number, fourteen, four and fourteen, but he was Look, he
Speaker 2: was rated as a top five player in the draft.
Speaker 2: Class goes to the combine, doesn't run faster. Then, as
Speaker 2: we're prone to do, we overthink it and very similar
Speaker 2: to Malachos Starks. He was the number one safety heading
Speaker 2: into the combine. Nick emin Warrior had a great combine
Speaker 2: and kind of stole Starks his thunder because he was
Speaker 2: so impressive as a six to four athlete and those things.
Speaker 2: But the Ravens, because I know this, they put their
Speaker 2: pencils down before they get to the combine. Their grades
Speaker 2: and stuff are all in. They're done with the process
Speaker 2: before they get to the combine, so they're not swayed
Speaker 2: by the workouts. Their grades and their things are done
Speaker 2: off the tape and off the tape. Malachis Starks was
Speaker 2: an impressive player, not only last season, but a season before.
Speaker 2: You saw a ton of plays, a ton of reactions
Speaker 2: and instincts and big plays. And that's why at twenty
Speaker 2: seven he was the right fit for them.
Speaker 1: Yeah, the rich get richer. I've been saying this for
Speaker 1: two seasons now that the Baltimore Ravens have the best
Speaker 1: roster in the NFL that hasn't culminated into a Super
Speaker 1: Bowl championship. A couple of years ago obviously got close.
Speaker 1: It was the Kansas City Chiefs beating them in Baltimore
Speaker 1: and even being in Baltimore in August. You could feel
Speaker 1: that in the conversations with the players they were referencing that.
Speaker 1: And then they got better somehow, and Derek Henry comes
Speaker 1: aboard and they're they're rolling. Save Flowers has a breakout
Speaker 1: season and yet once again falling just short. I just
Speaker 1: wonder if a piece like this gets them this much closer,
Speaker 1: because I still think it comes down to how do
Speaker 1: you learn from some of your losses because you can't
Speaker 1: even can't point at the roster buck like.
Speaker 2: They gonna make plays like they're gonna make plays, cause
Speaker 2: their thing has little to do with the talent and
Speaker 2: more to do with the execution. The effort is there,
Speaker 2: the execution has to be better in the those key moments.
Speaker 2: Last pick that I want to talk about, John Campbell
Speaker 2: going to the field of Eagles. Another example of Howie
Speaker 2: Roseman doing what Howie Roseman does. He's not a grade
Speaker 2: to He's not afraid to move up, even though it
Speaker 2: was just flipping a spot to go and get a linebacker.
Speaker 2: And you gotta remember, the Eagles never go after the linebackers.
Speaker 2: It was a position that they didn't value in their model,
Speaker 2: whether it's their analytics or just a philosophical standpoint, they
Speaker 2: didn't really see a lot of value in getting linebackers high.
Speaker 2: But lo and behold, joh Campbell is the pick. And
Speaker 2: maybe I'll say this. He was the pick for them
Speaker 2: because not only is the off ball linebacker, but because
Speaker 2: he's so effective coming off the edge. That is the
Speaker 2: only way they could have said Vic Fangio had to
Speaker 2: be And Howie Roseman's saying no, no, I'm telling you, if
Speaker 2: we get him in we can do these things with him.
Speaker 2: He can be effective, really intriguing, anticing pick for the philadelp.
Speaker 1: Hgles all Right, I go throw something in your way
Speaker 1: on day two. Okay, here we got I'm not going
Speaker 1: to ask you when should Dor Sanders gets drafted. I'm
Speaker 1: going to ask you, does Tyler, Schucker, Jell and Milroll
Speaker 1: go ahead head of Shador?
Speaker 2: They shouldn't. But now I'm nervous. I didn't think Jackson
Speaker 2: Dart would go. When I look at the board, I'm saying,
Speaker 2: you got the Browns right away at thirty three, and
Speaker 2: then I think you have the Raiders at thirty six
Speaker 2: or thirty seven. To me, Shadure Sanders to the Raiders
Speaker 2: would be the best pick and the reason why is
Speaker 2: the comparison for me, Wish's Jewer Sanders would be either
Speaker 2: Jerry Goff or Gino Smith. And so if you get
Speaker 2: him and you put him behind it, and look, I
Speaker 2: know people were like, well they got a backup quarterback,
Speaker 2: and ain't O'Connell in those things. I hear that, But
Speaker 2: I just think the relationship tom Brady looking look, it's
Speaker 2: overblown a little bit, even if Shaduer told me that,
Speaker 2: but Tom Brady being there, tom Brady kind of knowing
Speaker 2: what he's about, being able to learn that, to me,
Speaker 2: it would fit. I'm not saying that Cleveland wouldn't be fit,
Speaker 2: but man, if I could pick it for him, I
Speaker 2: would pick the Raiders.
Speaker 1: It's gonna be wild here because I think there's got
Speaker 1: to be some concerns injury wise. For Tyler Shuck, I
Speaker 1: made this reference before I got to see him a
Speaker 1: ton when he was at Oregon. It feels like he's
Speaker 1: a step away from collecting Social Security. He's been around
Speaker 1: for so long. But I know all the reports coming
Speaker 1: out of the Senior Bowl as he's impressive. I look
Speaker 1: at those traits though. For Jalen Milroll, I remember the
Speaker 1: first time I watched him in a game. I'm like, damn, Like,
Speaker 1: this dude is just he's so different out there. And
Speaker 1: that's where I start to hedge a little bit and go, Hey,
Speaker 1: which guy, which quarterback is it going to be? That's
Speaker 1: gonna hear his name called next, and maybe it's Sanders
Speaker 1: or maybe it's one of those other players.
Speaker 2: Look, it should be fascinating to watch. That was this
Speaker 2: week's Hot or Not segment, brought to you by with
Speaker 2: Sabi how cloud storage, store more and do more with
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Speaker 2: Yeah this was fun.
Speaker 1: Yeah, man, I appreciate the we spent We.
Speaker 2: Spent four hours doing the drafting, and we spent a
Speaker 2: little extra time doing a podcast. We gotta get you
Speaker 2: on the podcast again.
Speaker 1: Yeah, man, we went over time on this one. And
Speaker 1: then it's me and you the rest of the way.
Speaker 1: On Day two and day three, Day three on Saturday,
Speaker 1: you're gonna be ready to kill. I promise.
Speaker 4: Maybe maybe I got your coffee because I know I
Speaker 4: know this, we're gonna have to have some runners or whatever.
Speaker 4: We went to the whole first round without having runners
Speaker 4: bringing coffee and treats and all that. When we go
Speaker 4: rounds four through seven, some people gonna have to get
Speaker 4: on the move. We're gonna have to get.
Speaker 2: A Starbucks to kind of I shouldn't even drop that,
Speaker 2: but the coffee plays with the little green and signy,
Speaker 2: and so we're gonna need them to kind of drop
Speaker 2: some coffee.
Speaker 1: Can I just look for people who don't know Buck
Speaker 1: and I love our caffee. We've traveled down the road before.
Speaker 1: He says that I'm picky. I drink cole Brew black.
Speaker 1: This dude comes in. I'll never forget this and you'll
Speaker 1: never be able to say anything to me. Your your
Speaker 1: Starbucks cup.
Speaker 2: Said, They already, they already are made. Those are pre
Speaker 2: made comments on those things. But look, this was a
Speaker 2: lot of fun. Thanks thanks for coming on. Move to
Speaker 2: sticks yammer guys, make sure you tune in tomorrow night.
Speaker 2: We have another podcast at the rounds two and three,
Speaker 2: Day two of the Draft. Until then, we'll talk to
Speaker 2: him