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Speaker 1: Welcome to the Wired to Hunt podcast, your guide to

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Speaker 1: the Whitetail Woods, presented by First Light, creating proven versatile

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Speaker 1: hunting apparel for the stand, saddle or blind. First Light,

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Speaker 1: Go Farther, Stay Longer, and now your host, Mark Kenyon.

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Speaker 2: Welcome to the Wired to Hunt podcast. This week on

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Speaker 2: the show, we are chatting with the one and only

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Speaker 2: Don Higgins about the habits, personality, traits and behaviors of

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Speaker 2: the biggest oldest bucks he's ever hunted. All right, Welcome

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Speaker 2: to the Wire to Hunt podcast, brought to you by

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Speaker 2: First Light and First Light's Cameell for Conservation initiative in

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Speaker 2: which a portion of every sale of their Spector Camel pattern,

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Speaker 2: which is their whitetail camera pattern, a portion of every

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Speaker 2: one of those sales is going back to the National

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Speaker 2: Dear Association to help them on their mission to make

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Speaker 2: things better for deer and deer hunters, which is pretty

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Speaker 2: darn cool in my opinion, and I think today's podcast

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Speaker 2: is gonna be pretty darn cool. Two folks, we've got

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Speaker 2: Don Higgins on the show. I'm guessing you know Don.

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Speaker 2: He's been on the show a handful of different times

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Speaker 2: over the years, including famously a few years back, he

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Speaker 2: came on this show and called his shot. He said, Hey,

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Speaker 2: this coming season, I'm gonna kill a two hundreds buck

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Speaker 2: from this specific blind and here's how'm gonna do it.

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Speaker 2: And you know what he did. He went ahead and

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Speaker 2: did exactly that. So today he is a perfect guest

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Speaker 2: for our series that we're in the midst of, which

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Speaker 2: is all about big old bucks. It is about those

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Speaker 2: oldest of old deer getting to behind the scenes look

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Speaker 2: into the minds of how these mature, mature deer act,

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Speaker 2: what they do, why they do it, how they do it,

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Speaker 2: and what all that means for us as deer hunters.

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Speaker 2: And I think there's the few other people in the

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Speaker 2: world that have probably had as much experience with really

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Speaker 2: old bucks as Don Higgins. Don has been a very

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Speaker 2: long time outdoor writer. He's written about deer and deer

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Speaker 2: hunting for years and years and years across a bunch

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Speaker 2: of the different popular publications. These days, you can find

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Speaker 2: his work pretty frequently in North American whitetail. He has

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Speaker 2: now developed a whole series of different content offerings of

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Speaker 2: his own. He's got the Chasing Giants podcast, he has

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Speaker 2: the whitetail Master Academy online video course. He's got a

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Speaker 2: website over there on Higgins outdoors dot com. He's got

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Speaker 2: all sorts of stuff that is all framed around sharing

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Speaker 2: his experiences hunting and studying and managing and improving habitat

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Speaker 2: for big old whitetail deer. And that's the game plan

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Speaker 2: today is to kind of get into all of the

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Speaker 2: interesting lessons he's learned from those biggest, oldest bucks. So

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Speaker 2: he's hunted over the years. What kind of habits have

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Speaker 2: they had, what were their behaviors, what were their tendencies,

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Speaker 2: what kind of little personality traits has he noticed? And

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Speaker 2: you know, how can we take advantage of all that?

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Speaker 2: So that's what we're talking about today now. As I

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Speaker 2: have mentioned on our previous podcast in this series, I

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Speaker 2: want to make it abundantly clear that although today we

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Speaker 2: are talking about big old deer and we are celebrating

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Speaker 2: how cool they are and how much fun they are

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Speaker 2: to try to understand and to chase and to hunt,

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Speaker 2: and there's nothing wrong with that. There's also nothing wrong

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Speaker 2: with having different goals. There's nothing wrong with wanting to

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Speaker 2: kill the first dear you see, or shoot a young buck,

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Speaker 2: or shoot a bunch of two or three year olds.

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Speaker 2: Whatever it is that lights your fire, whatever it is

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Speaker 2: that makes this fun for you. Do that. Do not

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Speaker 2: feel any pressure to, you know, chase the same goals

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Speaker 2: that somebody else does. Do not feel any pressure to,

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Speaker 2: you know, kill a big deer because everybody else seems

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Speaker 2: to be doing it. Do your thing, hunt your own hunt,

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Speaker 2: and most important, do what is fun. Make sure it's legal,

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Speaker 2: make sure it's ethical, make sure it's fun. And I'll

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Speaker 2: give an example. I'm actually leaving tonight to go on

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Speaker 2: a hunting trip and I'm gonna be hunting deer in

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Speaker 2: Wisconsin on a brand new property I've never touched foot

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Speaker 2: on before. I don't know what I'm doing out there,

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Speaker 2: and I'm just gonna be focusing on having fun. I'm

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Speaker 2: not gonna try to kill some big, giant buck. I'm

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Speaker 2: not trying to kill a five year old. Hey, if

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Speaker 2: I see a deer like that and I get a chance, awesome.

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Speaker 2: But I am just gonna be going out there to

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Speaker 2: have fun. I want to kill a dough or two

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Speaker 2: to help out the landowner, and otherwise I'm just gonna

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Speaker 2: see what gets me excited. If there's a nice two

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Speaker 2: or three year old buck that comes by, and the

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Speaker 2: hunt has been going in such a way that this

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Speaker 2: is an opportunity that I can't pass up on, then heck, yeah,

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Speaker 2: I'm gonna shoot that deer. I'm gonna be happy. Or

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Speaker 2: maybe I'm gonna see a bunch of deer like that

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Speaker 2: and I'm gonna say, Nope, that's not what I want

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Speaker 2: to shoot right now. Just given where I'm at, what's

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Speaker 2: going on, how I'm feeling, maybe I just want to pass.

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Speaker 2: Maybe I just want to watch those deer. I'm gonna

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Speaker 2: see how the week goes, I'm gonna see how the

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Speaker 2: days go, and we're just gonna feel it out, and

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Speaker 2: when it comes right down to it, I just want

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Speaker 2: this to be an enjoyable experience, getting the deer hunting

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Speaker 2: season kicked off, spending some time with some good friends

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Speaker 2: and enjoying ourselves and the outdoors and our company being

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Speaker 2: out there chasing these critters, learning stuff, and maybe put

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Speaker 2: a little vendis in the freezer along the way. So

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Speaker 2: I just want to make sure that's really clear. Even

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Speaker 2: though we're focusing on these big old bucks, there's a

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Speaker 2: lot bigger things here in the larger scheme of things.

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Speaker 2: So that all said. If you do like Big Old Bucks, though,

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Speaker 2: this is gonna be the podcast for you. Don has

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Speaker 2: got a lot to share. We're gonna get right to

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Speaker 2: that podcast here after a couple very quick updates. Update

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Speaker 2: number one, make sure you're following one week in November

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Speaker 2: over on YouTube. That's our new series on the Meat

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Speaker 2: Eater YouTube channel. I believe episode four came out this week,

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Speaker 2: so you are getting to now see day one, two, three,

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Speaker 2: and four of our seven day rut hunt that we

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Speaker 2: had last year. And it's following my hunt in Nebraska

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Speaker 2: and Ohio and then the hunts of my buddies Tony Peterson,

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Speaker 2: Spencer Newhart, Klay Nukomb and Giannis Putellis. And I feel

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Speaker 2: like day four was like this kind of day of

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Speaker 2: not debauchery, but but debacles, I guess is maybe the

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Speaker 2: right word. So if I remember this day right, we

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Speaker 2: just had to kind of laugh at ourselves. And so

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Speaker 2: be sure to check that one out and all the

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Speaker 2: rest that are come over these next couple of weeks.

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Speaker 2: Another update, if you haven't yet, make sure you're tuning

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Speaker 2: into Reut Fresh Radio, which comes out every Wednesday, in

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Speaker 2: which we are checking in with four or five deer

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Speaker 2: hunters from across different parts of the country to find

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Speaker 2: out what's happening right now, how's the deer activity been,

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Speaker 2: how are current conditions impacting deer movement, what kinds of

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Speaker 2: tactics they're working right now? You know, what are the

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Speaker 2: deer doing, what are they feeding on, how are they

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Speaker 2: relating to this weather or whatever it might be. You

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Speaker 2: can learn a lot of really fresh hot intel that

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Speaker 2: can help you on your upcoming hunts, so make sure

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Speaker 2: you're tuning into that. And then finally, I think this

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Speaker 2: is going to come out just before I head to

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Speaker 2: Missouri or not Missouri, Mississippi for our fifth Working for

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Speaker 2: Wildlife Tour event. So I just want to send out

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Speaker 2: a big thank you to everyone who's signed up for that.

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Speaker 2: I can't wait to see you guys on the twenty

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Speaker 2: third in Mississippi. We're gonna be volunteering down there to

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Speaker 2: plant fruit trees, plant food plots, removing vasive species, and

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Speaker 2: do a handful of other good things on public land

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Speaker 2: down there to make it better for wildlife, to make

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Speaker 2: it better for hunters and all sorts of critters out there.

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Speaker 2: So it's gonna be a good time. It's gonna be

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Speaker 2: good work. I'm pumped about it. Thank you for being

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Speaker 2: a part of it. Down there, all my Southern folks,

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Speaker 2: whether it's Alabama, Mississippi, wherever you're coming from. Let's get

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Speaker 2: to work. And now with that out of the way,

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Speaker 2: we've got to get to something else, which is this

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Speaker 2: really interesting podcast with mister Don Higgins. And I mentioned

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Speaker 2: at the top he predicted a few years ago, he

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Speaker 2: predicted that he would kill a two hundreds buck from

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Speaker 2: a specific stand at a specific time when he was

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Speaker 2: on the show back in seventeen or eighteen. I'm gonna

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Speaker 2: give you a little preview right now. I asked Don

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Speaker 2: to call his shot again, so we do have a prediction.

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Speaker 2: At the end of this podcast, Don will make his

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Speaker 2: prediction for this season. It's very interesting and I'm excited

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Speaker 2: to see whether or not he can prove this one

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Speaker 2: to be true as well. Sure you stay tuned in

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Speaker 2: all the way to the end this great conversation with

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Speaker 2: Don Higgins. Let's get to it all right here with

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Speaker 2: me now on the line back again is mister Don Higgins.

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Speaker 2: Thank you, Don for being here.

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Speaker 3: Well, thanks for having me mark my pleasure.

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Speaker 2: It's been a couple of years since you've been on

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Speaker 2: the show, and it was well past time that we

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Speaker 2: had a reunion here and talk through things. But when

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Speaker 2: I was thinking back to those last conversations we had

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Speaker 2: on here, I realized that we left things on like

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Speaker 2: a really, really high note, because I think the last

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Speaker 2: time we did one of our main shows together was

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Speaker 2: when you were either discussing the outcome or when you

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Speaker 2: were calling your shots on how you were going to say, Hey,

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Speaker 2: I'm gonna kill a two hundred inch buck this year,

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Speaker 2: I'm gonna shoot it from this blind's gonna happen like this,

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Speaker 2: And we might have done one after that when you

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Speaker 2: actually did it. But the long story short of it

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Speaker 2: is that you called it, you actually killed the buck

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Speaker 2: you said you were gonna kill. So with all that

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Speaker 2: being said, I feel there's a lot of pressure on

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Speaker 2: you now today because you're back and we're all gonna

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Speaker 2: be expecting whatever you tell us today to be exactly

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Speaker 2: what happens this season. So are you ready for that

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Speaker 2: kind of pressure? Done?

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Speaker 3: I guess so, you know, I didn't realize it had

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Speaker 3: been that long. That was twenty seventeen, and I absolutely

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Speaker 3: remember the podcast in the summer before that season, and

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Speaker 3: then immediately after I shot the first buck, the two

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Speaker 3: hundred and six inch smoky, we did a podcast and

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Speaker 3: I said, my odds is seeing my second target buck

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Speaker 3: just laying eyes on him. We're about five percent, I think. Well.

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Speaker 3: Then a couple of days later, I went hunting and

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Speaker 3: I shot him. Yeah, and I seen him for the

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Speaker 3: first time ever and got a shot and killed him.

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Speaker 3: So you brought me good luck last time. I hope

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Speaker 3: you can do that again.

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Speaker 2: I'm gonna do my best. I'm gonna do my best.

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Speaker 3: Okay.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it feels like that was just like a year

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Speaker 2: ago or two years ago. But when I started looking

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Speaker 2: into it too, I couldn't believe how fast that time

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Speaker 2: has flown. It's all. I've had two children in the

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Speaker 2: years in between that, so it's all kind of been

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Speaker 2: chaos on my side of least. So well, congratulations, yeah,

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Speaker 2: thank you. You know how that goes pretty wild stuff.

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Speaker 2: But you came to mind this month because we're doing

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Speaker 2: this series all about the biggest oldest bucks, kind of

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Speaker 2: getting behind the scenes and into the minds of those deer,

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Speaker 2: of those super mature deer, of those old, gnarly kind

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Speaker 2: of ghosts, and you're one of those guys who has perfected,

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Speaker 2: I think, as close as you can the art of

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Speaker 2: chasing that kind of deer. You know, those examples you

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Speaker 2: just mentioned being perfect, perfect illustrations of that, you know,

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Speaker 2: killing those two deer back in I guess what was

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Speaker 2: seventeen you said? And it seems like you're back on

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Speaker 2: the same kind of path now again this year. Maybe.

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Speaker 2: So my first question before you're done, before we kind

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Speaker 2: of dive into the meat and potatoes of all this, is, uh,

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Speaker 2: how do you feel about this season coming into it?

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Speaker 2: We're just a couple of weeks away from opening day

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Speaker 2: there in Illinois. I heard your recent Buck Forecast podcast.

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Speaker 2: It sounds like you're a little bit maybe apprehensive, but

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Speaker 2: I want to hear it straight from you. How are

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Speaker 2: you feeling going in this season as far as your

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Speaker 2: situation specifically and maybe the larger you know, your larger

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Speaker 2: take two?

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Speaker 3: Well, you know, I had a really good buck that

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Speaker 3: I passed last year. He's a five year old, and

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Speaker 3: I had his sheds for from the two previous seasons.

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Speaker 3: In this spring, I wasn't able to find either one,

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Speaker 3: but a friend of mine found one side from this spring,

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Speaker 3: and he would have scored in the mid one eighties,

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Speaker 3: and I was hoping he would have a good jump

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Speaker 3: on Antler's score for this year, but he actually went backwards,

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Speaker 3: as did just about every mature buck that I was

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Speaker 3: I had been following, So, you know, I think that

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Speaker 3: was due to the drought. We had an extreme drought

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Speaker 3: in May and June when those bucks, you know, are

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Speaker 3: really set in the stage for that antler growth for

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Speaker 3: the year, and I think that set them all back

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Speaker 3: throughout much of the Midwest, because I've been hearing that

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Speaker 3: from a lot of guys. But for me, individually, this

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Speaker 3: buck that was mid one eighties last year, he's probably

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Speaker 3: right there about the one eighty mark, with give or

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Speaker 3: take an inch or two one hundred and eighty inches.

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Speaker 3: He's six years old. This year, he's We're going to

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Speaker 3: get him shot. And I say we because I've got

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Speaker 3: two young grandsons that are going to hunt in the

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Speaker 3: U season and they'll be able to use a rifle,

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Speaker 3: straight wall cartridge rifle and if one of the if

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Speaker 3: he steps out in front of one of them boys,

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Speaker 3: they're going to get the green light and go ahead

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Speaker 3: and put the hammer down, you know. So what I'm

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Speaker 3: really excited about is that I've got some young bucks.

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Speaker 3: And when I say young, I'm talking four and younger

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Speaker 3: coming up on my property. That show at a world

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Speaker 3: of potential, and I want to get these older bucks

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Speaker 3: off the farm, get them shot, and allow these younger

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Speaker 3: bucks to have the run of the place. Ideally, I

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Speaker 3: would like to get these bucks shot in October. There's

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Speaker 3: two in particular. There's also a big four by four

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Speaker 3: that's probably one hundred and seventy inches. So those two

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Speaker 3: bucks i'd like to get off the farm in October

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Speaker 3: before the rut heats up. And I really don't even

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Speaker 3: care if I'm the one that shoots them. I'll have

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Speaker 3: guests here, my grandsons. I'm going to keep everybody away

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Speaker 3: until that youth season, which I think is about the seventh, eighth, ninth,

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Speaker 3: or somewhere in there that weekend in October. But after

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Speaker 3: that we're gonna be hitting it hard. If I can

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Speaker 3: take a friend or somebody along with me, I will

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Speaker 3: and allow them to shoot those bucks. To be honest,

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Speaker 3: the whole deer management thing on the farm, I just

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Speaker 3: feel like I've taken this farm to a level that

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Speaker 3: I never thought I ever could. And these young bucks

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Speaker 3: that are coming up. I think, in all honesty, I

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Speaker 3: think three of them have the potential to maybe be

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Speaker 3: two hundred inches. Now I'm not saying they will, maybe

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Speaker 3: none of them will, but I think they've got enough

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Speaker 3: going on on their head that they could potentially get

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Speaker 3: there with some age. And I want to do everything

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Speaker 3: I can to keep those bucks alive. And you know,

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Speaker 3: I just turned sixty years old about three weeks ago,

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Speaker 3: and I got a wall full of big deer. I

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Speaker 3: don't need to pile on a bunch more deer on

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Speaker 3: my wall. And if I can, you know, make someone

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Speaker 3: season by allowing them to shoot some of these bucks,

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Speaker 3: I get a big thrill out of that. I've never

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Speaker 3: been a guy that to stack up numbers of deer.

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Speaker 3: It's just not been my thing. And nothing against people

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Speaker 3: that try to all over the country and you know,

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Speaker 3: shoot three or four or five or however many big

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Speaker 3: deer every year. That's great for them, if that's their thing.

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Speaker 3: It's just never been mine. And uh, I think once

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Speaker 3: I shoot a buck, the work starts, and you know,

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Speaker 3: then you gotta process that there, get him out of

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Speaker 3: the woods and everything else. You're putting pressure on your land,

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Speaker 3: and then you gotta you gotta search for your next

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Speaker 3: target buck, and I like find. After I've found that

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Speaker 3: target buck, that's when I really start having fun. Is

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Speaker 3: kind of putting the pieces together, you know, until it's

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Speaker 3: actually time to go after him.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, so do you think I mean, I know you

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Speaker 2: mentioned you want someone to shoot Babe now, but it

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Speaker 2: sounds like he's not your target buck as much anymore.

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Speaker 2: And you mentioned the big eight pointer and a couple

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Speaker 2: others that you know other folks might take a crack

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Speaker 2: at or maybe you. But is there any chance of

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Speaker 2: like you having a real, real target buck that you're

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Speaker 2: obsessing over and chasing after. Is there any possibility there's

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Speaker 2: a deal like that out there still or does it

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Speaker 2: seem like this gonna be a waiting game for these

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Speaker 2: other bucks to get to next year?

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Speaker 3: Well? Now I would after the use season, if I'm

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Speaker 3: sitting by myself and Babe comes along, I'm shooting him. Yeah.

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Speaker 3: I need to get him off the farm before November

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Speaker 3: if I possibly can. And uh, I'm as far as

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Speaker 3: having a giant target buck now that that one hundred

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Speaker 3: and eighty inch Babe is probably my top end for

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Speaker 3: this year. And uh, yeah, if I get him great

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Speaker 3: if someone else does good for them.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, okay, So you mentioned that Babe was a six

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Speaker 2: this year. Is that right?

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Speaker 3: Yes?

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Speaker 2: And and is he the oldest on the farming around

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Speaker 2: there or is that big eight point or older or

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Speaker 2: what's your what's like the age top end of your

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Speaker 2: age structure there right now?

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Speaker 3: No, I've got a couple of bucks that show up.

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Speaker 3: They typically don't show up till after the ut. They

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Speaker 3: show up in the late season for the food when

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Speaker 3: the deer start congregating here for the food sources. I've

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Speaker 3: got one that's probably I bet he's at least eight

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Speaker 3: and a half, if not nine and a half this year,

333
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Speaker 3: I'd have to go back and look at the history.

334
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Speaker 3: He's not a big deer at all. He's probably high

335
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Speaker 3: one thirties one at the top. Just a clean four

336
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Speaker 3: by four. He wasn't when he was younger. He was

337
00:17:20,280 --> 00:17:22,320
Speaker 3: a five by five. But the last two years and

338
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Speaker 3: including that this year, be I guess the third year

339
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Speaker 3: he's lost those G four's on both sides and just

340
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Speaker 3: become a clean four by four. That buck needs shop.

341
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Speaker 3: But he's really not one that's going to put too

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Speaker 3: much pressure on these young bucks during the rut because

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Speaker 3: he just isn't here during the rut. And then there's

344
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Speaker 3: another buck that shows up late and the weather has

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Speaker 3: to be really bad or he doesn't show up. I mean,

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Speaker 3: we need some snow and really cold temperatures, and then

347
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Speaker 3: he'll show up for the food, and again he doesn't

348
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Speaker 3: show up till late. So he's not one I'm real

349
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Speaker 3: really too worried about. He's probably maybe one hundred and

350
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Speaker 3: sixty inches and he's probably six seven years old. But

351
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Speaker 3: the big four by four that I mentioned, it's one

352
00:18:07,040 --> 00:18:09,760
Speaker 3: hundred and seventy inches. He's a five year old. But

353
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Speaker 3: he's just never going to be more than what he

354
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Speaker 3: is right now. Yea, So time for him to go.

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Speaker 2: So when you look at these deer or the course

356
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Speaker 2: of their life as they mature, is there an age

357
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Speaker 2: when you see a big jump not an antler size,

358
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Speaker 2: but in smarts or behavior, Like when is it when

359
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Speaker 2: they switch from being like a young whipper snapper to

360
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Speaker 2: a ghost? What's that age typically like in your experience?

361
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Speaker 3: Well, I think the toughest bucks to kill are the

362
00:18:41,720 --> 00:18:44,880
Speaker 3: four and five year olds. From from three to four,

363
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Speaker 3: they make a huge jump in you know how hard

364
00:18:48,840 --> 00:18:51,440
Speaker 3: they are to kill. They just become a lot more

365
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Speaker 3: wary and a lot more cautious, And once they hit

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Speaker 3: about six, it seems like they become comfortable in whatever

367
00:18:59,800 --> 00:19:02,919
Speaker 3: they're doing and they let their guard down just a

368
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Speaker 3: little bit. I know Bill Wink's wrote about that in

369
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Speaker 3: the past, and I've heard others talk about it, and

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Speaker 3: I agree one hundred percent that now it might not

371
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Speaker 3: happen at six with every buck, but six seven, somewhere

372
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Speaker 3: in there, their home range kind of shrinks down. They

373
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Speaker 3: don't cover as much territory. They found their safe zone,

374
00:19:21,080 --> 00:19:24,240
Speaker 3: their sanctuary, if you will, and they start moving within

375
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Speaker 3: that area during daylight a little more than they did

376
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Speaker 3: the two years before. I think the toughest bucks to

377
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Speaker 3: kill are probably four and five year olds.

378
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Speaker 2: So you mentioned a couple of things, but I'm curious

379
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Speaker 2: what are with those four and five year old bucks.

380
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Speaker 2: I guess what's different about their behavior from the six

381
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Speaker 2: seven eight year olds. With the six seven eight year olds,

382
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Speaker 2: I follow you like they're starting to get comfortable. They

383
00:19:50,000 --> 00:19:52,240
Speaker 2: kind of know where they're safe. They've got their really

384
00:19:52,280 --> 00:19:54,000
Speaker 2: tight core area, and so I can see how that

385
00:19:54,040 --> 00:19:57,120
Speaker 2: could become a predictable. What are you seeing with those

386
00:19:57,160 --> 00:19:59,199
Speaker 2: four and five year olds. That is making them so tricky.

387
00:19:59,320 --> 00:20:01,120
Speaker 2: They they're in that sw spot where they're not dumb

388
00:20:01,160 --> 00:20:03,560
Speaker 2: teenagers anymore, but they're not old farts that just want

389
00:20:03,560 --> 00:20:06,800
Speaker 2: to lay on the couch, right. Yeah.

390
00:20:07,280 --> 00:20:10,280
Speaker 3: The biggest thing is daylight movement. That they just don't

391
00:20:10,320 --> 00:20:14,760
Speaker 3: move in daylight as much. And it doesn't make sense,

392
00:20:14,760 --> 00:20:18,000
Speaker 3: but those older bucks, in my experience, seem to move

393
00:20:18,040 --> 00:20:22,159
Speaker 3: more in daylight. But now their home range is a

394
00:20:22,160 --> 00:20:27,320
Speaker 3: lot smaller, so they're they're holding tight to an area

395
00:20:27,320 --> 00:20:30,320
Speaker 3: they're really familiar with, and I think they just get

396
00:20:30,359 --> 00:20:33,000
Speaker 3: over confident in their survival abilities and their ability to

397
00:20:33,000 --> 00:20:37,200
Speaker 3: detect danger. They're not moving in daylight everywhere, but within

398
00:20:37,320 --> 00:20:40,800
Speaker 3: that small core area, they seem to move more in daylight.

399
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Speaker 2: What's the trick? And I've realized there's not a trick,

400
00:20:46,600 --> 00:20:51,080
Speaker 2: But what's the key to getting a buck like that

401
00:20:52,520 --> 00:20:56,280
Speaker 2: to that age and feeling overconfident in his zone. I've

402
00:20:56,320 --> 00:20:58,840
Speaker 2: got some assumptions, but I'd like to hear from your perspective,

403
00:20:59,480 --> 00:21:03,000
Speaker 2: how do we get a buck to that age and

404
00:21:03,240 --> 00:21:05,680
Speaker 2: feeling like, oh man, this is pretty slick. I've got

405
00:21:05,680 --> 00:21:09,840
Speaker 2: it made. I can feel comfortable here. I'm confident and

406
00:21:09,960 --> 00:21:13,800
Speaker 2: seemingly overconfident in your estimation. What gets us there?

407
00:21:16,480 --> 00:21:19,840
Speaker 3: Well, I think that you know, when when bucks are young,

408
00:21:19,880 --> 00:21:22,080
Speaker 3: I don't think there's one buck that's smarter than the other.

409
00:21:22,160 --> 00:21:25,720
Speaker 3: I think a lot of it. Which ones in most

410
00:21:25,760 --> 00:21:31,840
Speaker 3: of the the white tails range, I think it's pretty

411
00:21:31,880 --> 00:21:34,920
Speaker 3: much luck which bucks make it to the older age classes,

412
00:21:34,960 --> 00:21:40,000
Speaker 3: because as those bucks disperse as yearlings, you know, research

413
00:21:40,080 --> 00:21:43,240
Speaker 3: has shown that depending on the type of terrain they

414
00:21:43,240 --> 00:21:45,440
Speaker 3: live in, the more open the terrain, the farther they're

415
00:21:45,440 --> 00:21:49,040
Speaker 3: going to disperse from their birth area. The more densely

416
00:21:49,160 --> 00:21:52,920
Speaker 3: wooded or the more cover, the shorter the distance they're

417
00:21:52,960 --> 00:21:56,960
Speaker 3: going to disperse from their birth area. But I think

418
00:21:57,000 --> 00:22:00,919
Speaker 3: that when those yearling bucks disperse, some of those bucks

419
00:22:00,920 --> 00:22:04,439
Speaker 3: are just lucky, and they happen to disperse to a

420
00:22:04,680 --> 00:22:09,639
Speaker 3: property or a no hunting area or whatever where the

421
00:22:09,760 --> 00:22:13,159
Speaker 3: hunting pressure is not as much and they survive to

422
00:22:13,240 --> 00:22:18,080
Speaker 3: the next age class one percent on luck. And what

423
00:22:18,160 --> 00:22:20,359
Speaker 3: I've tried to do with the management of my property,

424
00:22:21,640 --> 00:22:23,120
Speaker 3: and we kind of got into a little bit earlier

425
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Speaker 3: when I talked about those young bucks, that I want

426
00:22:24,840 --> 00:22:27,760
Speaker 3: to make it. What I've tried to do is make

427
00:22:27,840 --> 00:22:30,400
Speaker 3: my property a place that attracts a lot of those

428
00:22:30,440 --> 00:22:33,199
Speaker 3: young bucks. I want to give them the security so

429
00:22:33,240 --> 00:22:34,960
Speaker 3: they're safe when they get here, they're not going to

430
00:22:35,000 --> 00:22:37,440
Speaker 3: get shot. I want to give them all the food

431
00:22:37,480 --> 00:22:41,879
Speaker 3: they want, a wide variety of food. Food diversity is huge.

432
00:22:42,800 --> 00:22:46,560
Speaker 3: I want to give them the security of freedom of

433
00:22:46,640 --> 00:22:50,000
Speaker 3: human intrusion. I want to give them large blocks of

434
00:22:50,080 --> 00:22:53,879
Speaker 3: sanctuary cover that's never going to have a human step

435
00:22:53,880 --> 00:22:58,640
Speaker 3: foot in it. And I think once a young buck

436
00:22:58,720 --> 00:23:01,080
Speaker 3: finds a place like that, he's got the food he's

437
00:23:01,119 --> 00:23:03,520
Speaker 3: got to cover, and then obviously there's going to be

438
00:23:03,600 --> 00:23:06,280
Speaker 3: does there. I think you can hold a lot more

439
00:23:06,320 --> 00:23:09,840
Speaker 3: of those young bucks. And then from that point it's

440
00:23:09,920 --> 00:23:13,280
Speaker 3: kind of a matter of managing your buck herd. And

441
00:23:14,800 --> 00:23:17,119
Speaker 3: you know, this is one of the things that one

442
00:23:17,119 --> 00:23:21,040
Speaker 3: of the reasons I like doctor Strickland's doctor Bronson Strickland

443
00:23:21,040 --> 00:23:24,320
Speaker 3: from the MSU Dear Lab his research so well is

444
00:23:24,320 --> 00:23:29,520
Speaker 3: because his research absolutely backs up my approach to management.

445
00:23:30,240 --> 00:23:33,720
Speaker 3: And so when we get these bucks staying here as

446
00:23:33,800 --> 00:23:37,440
Speaker 3: yearlings and two year olds, and then once they hit three,

447
00:23:38,119 --> 00:23:40,399
Speaker 3: you've got a pretty good idea of what that buck's

448
00:23:40,720 --> 00:23:43,920
Speaker 3: going to be later in life. I mean, the best

449
00:23:44,000 --> 00:23:46,000
Speaker 3: yearling bucks as far as racks, are going to be

450
00:23:46,040 --> 00:23:47,760
Speaker 3: the best two year olds. Most of the time they

451
00:23:47,760 --> 00:23:49,920
Speaker 3: are going to be the best three year olds. So

452
00:23:49,960 --> 00:23:52,159
Speaker 3: when they hit three, you got a pretty good idea

453
00:23:52,200 --> 00:23:54,560
Speaker 3: of what that buck is going to be when he matures.

454
00:23:55,359 --> 00:23:58,720
Speaker 3: And what I've tried to do is bring in guests

455
00:23:59,280 --> 00:24:01,959
Speaker 3: and shoot a lot of three year olds that are

456
00:24:02,000 --> 00:24:05,760
Speaker 3: at the lower end of their age class, the best

457
00:24:05,800 --> 00:24:08,000
Speaker 3: bucks in each age class, I want to protect them,

458
00:24:08,680 --> 00:24:12,240
Speaker 3: and starting at three years old. Now there's a lot

459
00:24:12,240 --> 00:24:15,960
Speaker 3: of those bucks that I mean, they're wild deer, and

460
00:24:17,800 --> 00:24:20,000
Speaker 3: we can hunt them as hard as we want. That

461
00:24:20,040 --> 00:24:22,919
Speaker 3: doesn't that's no guarantee we're going to kill them. But

462
00:24:23,240 --> 00:24:25,640
Speaker 3: those bucks that are on the hit list as three

463
00:24:25,720 --> 00:24:29,720
Speaker 3: year olds are the worst three year olds. And then

464
00:24:29,760 --> 00:24:32,320
Speaker 3: we allow the best ones in each age class to

465
00:24:32,400 --> 00:24:36,600
Speaker 3: move on up. And you know, that's been my approach

466
00:24:36,720 --> 00:24:40,440
Speaker 3: to you know, having a farm that produces some top

467
00:24:40,560 --> 00:24:42,240
Speaker 3: end bucks, how.

468
00:24:42,200 --> 00:24:45,879
Speaker 2: Much do you worry about educating your up and comers.

469
00:24:46,200 --> 00:24:48,960
Speaker 2: So I'm imagining like you've got a top tier three

470
00:24:49,000 --> 00:24:50,520
Speaker 2: year old or four year old, the buck that you

471
00:24:50,600 --> 00:24:52,680
Speaker 2: really really want to make it. But at the same time,

472
00:24:52,720 --> 00:24:55,880
Speaker 2: I know, like you want to take out these big

473
00:24:55,920 --> 00:25:00,399
Speaker 2: bully bucks or lower end younger bucks. And I'm assuming

474
00:25:00,400 --> 00:25:04,160
Speaker 2: maybe you're shooting some dough sometimes too. If if you're

475
00:25:04,160 --> 00:25:08,400
Speaker 2: trying to do that, do you worry about educating that

476
00:25:08,560 --> 00:25:10,120
Speaker 2: top end three and a half here, Let's say they're

477
00:25:10,119 --> 00:25:11,639
Speaker 2: out in the food source at the same time and

478
00:25:11,720 --> 00:25:14,199
Speaker 2: you've got a dough and he want to shoot some

479
00:25:14,240 --> 00:25:16,880
Speaker 2: does but also your your high potential three year olds

480
00:25:16,880 --> 00:25:18,800
Speaker 2: out there, your high potential four year olds out there.

481
00:25:18,920 --> 00:25:20,960
Speaker 2: Are you worried about shooting a deer while he's out

482
00:25:20,960 --> 00:25:23,880
Speaker 2: there and spooking him off? Same thing with a big

483
00:25:23,920 --> 00:25:26,040
Speaker 2: bully buck, Like, is that in your mind? Is that

484
00:25:26,359 --> 00:25:29,000
Speaker 2: making your shoot or don't shoot decisions in any way

485
00:25:29,040 --> 00:25:30,280
Speaker 2: more complicated?

486
00:25:32,320 --> 00:25:35,840
Speaker 3: That's definitely something I take into consideration. And you know,

487
00:25:35,920 --> 00:25:38,560
Speaker 3: I've I don't know how many tree stands I got

488
00:25:38,560 --> 00:25:41,680
Speaker 3: on this property. I'm gonna guess about let's just say fifteen,

489
00:25:42,320 --> 00:25:46,360
Speaker 3: give or take. I've got certain stands that I absolutely

490
00:25:46,359 --> 00:25:49,639
Speaker 3: will not shoot anything except a target buck. I'm not

491
00:25:49,640 --> 00:25:53,520
Speaker 3: gonna put any pressure on those stands unless it's a giant.

492
00:25:54,359 --> 00:25:57,639
Speaker 3: And most of those are like they're right on the

493
00:25:57,760 --> 00:25:59,679
Speaker 3: edge of the sanctuary, And I don't have any stands

494
00:25:59,680 --> 00:26:01,960
Speaker 3: within the sanctuary. But I've got some stands on the

495
00:26:02,119 --> 00:26:05,440
Speaker 3: edge of the sanctuary that I hunt with various wind directions,

496
00:26:05,440 --> 00:26:09,000
Speaker 3: and there's various terrain features that pinch those deer up

497
00:26:09,040 --> 00:26:12,800
Speaker 3: closer to the edge as they travel throughout that sanctuary.

498
00:26:12,840 --> 00:26:18,000
Speaker 3: And I won't shoot a call buck if you will,

499
00:26:18,000 --> 00:26:21,000
Speaker 3: And I hate to use that term management buck. I say,

500
00:26:21,000 --> 00:26:26,359
Speaker 3: I won't shoot a management buck within the sanctuary that

501
00:26:26,400 --> 00:26:28,840
Speaker 3: they've got to step out of the sanctuary to get shot.

502
00:26:29,680 --> 00:26:32,639
Speaker 3: The sanctuary remains a sanctuary for the bucks that I

503
00:26:32,680 --> 00:26:37,360
Speaker 3: want to raise or want to move on up. I

504
00:26:37,400 --> 00:26:39,879
Speaker 3: want them to always feel safe there and never feel

505
00:26:40,080 --> 00:26:40,800
Speaker 3: pressure there.

506
00:26:53,480 --> 00:26:55,720
Speaker 2: I think what it sounds like you've tried to do,

507
00:26:55,800 --> 00:26:57,320
Speaker 2: and what I think a lot of people want to do,

508
00:26:57,400 --> 00:27:01,320
Speaker 2: is try to maximize the number of top tier mature

509
00:27:01,359 --> 00:27:04,040
Speaker 2: bucks that will spend a lot of time on their property,

510
00:27:04,119 --> 00:27:06,320
Speaker 2: right And I've heard you talk about different ways that

511
00:27:06,359 --> 00:27:07,879
Speaker 2: you might be able to do that, whether it is

512
00:27:08,240 --> 00:27:10,399
Speaker 2: doing what you're just described there, which is trying to

513
00:27:10,440 --> 00:27:15,159
Speaker 2: remove some of the competition, But what else have you

514
00:27:15,200 --> 00:27:18,280
Speaker 2: found can help you maximize the number of mature bucks

515
00:27:18,359 --> 00:27:20,280
Speaker 2: or really good mature bucks that you can stack on

516
00:27:20,320 --> 00:27:23,199
Speaker 2: your piece. In addition to, you know, taking out some

517
00:27:23,240 --> 00:27:25,640
Speaker 2: management up bucks to open up slots I guess we'll

518
00:27:25,640 --> 00:27:28,320
Speaker 2: call them. Is there anything else with habitat or hunting

519
00:27:28,359 --> 00:27:31,159
Speaker 2: that you're doing that allows that to possibly happen to

520
00:27:31,160 --> 00:27:33,040
Speaker 2: get not just one big mature buck, but maybe you

521
00:27:33,040 --> 00:27:35,639
Speaker 2: can get two or three or what's that max? Have

522
00:27:35,720 --> 00:27:38,240
Speaker 2: you found two per one hundred acres or two hundred acres.

523
00:27:38,320 --> 00:27:43,520
Speaker 2: I'm curious about that whole set of ideas well.

524
00:27:44,960 --> 00:27:47,200
Speaker 3: One thing that I've learned about mature box is that

525
00:27:47,240 --> 00:27:51,320
Speaker 3: they're all different. It would be like putting a group

526
00:27:51,400 --> 00:27:55,199
Speaker 3: of mature men around a table. Now, they're all going

527
00:27:55,280 --> 00:27:59,320
Speaker 3: to have certain tendencies, you know, but they're all going

528
00:27:59,359 --> 00:28:02,359
Speaker 3: to be individual also, And it's the same with these bucks.

529
00:28:02,400 --> 00:28:07,320
Speaker 3: And I think that's one of the things that helps

530
00:28:07,400 --> 00:28:11,399
Speaker 3: me anyway to target specific bucks is that as I

531
00:28:11,520 --> 00:28:13,960
Speaker 3: watch these bucks grow up and I put the pieces

532
00:28:13,960 --> 00:28:16,159
Speaker 3: of the puzzle together as they're growing up, by the

533
00:28:16,200 --> 00:28:19,280
Speaker 3: time they're mature, I know what they're going to do

534
00:28:20,240 --> 00:28:25,520
Speaker 3: and before they do it each fall, and that allows

535
00:28:25,560 --> 00:28:27,320
Speaker 3: me to be a step ahead of that buck instead

536
00:28:27,320 --> 00:28:29,119
Speaker 3: of a step behind him when I go to hunting.

537
00:28:29,640 --> 00:28:32,679
Speaker 3: So it comes down to the individual personalities. There's some

538
00:28:32,840 --> 00:28:36,480
Speaker 3: bucks that absolutely they don't want to be here. I've

539
00:28:36,520 --> 00:28:38,880
Speaker 3: got too many deer, too many bucks on my place,

540
00:28:39,800 --> 00:28:43,040
Speaker 3: and I get bucks that come along that don't like

541
00:28:43,080 --> 00:28:46,480
Speaker 3: it here, and so they will go to outlying areas.

542
00:28:46,480 --> 00:28:49,320
Speaker 3: Now they will visit, they'll come through here and look

543
00:28:49,360 --> 00:28:51,760
Speaker 3: for doze, and in the winter when food's tough to find,

544
00:28:51,800 --> 00:28:54,520
Speaker 3: they'll show up. But they really don't like spending a

545
00:28:54,520 --> 00:28:58,360
Speaker 3: lot of time around all these other deer. But there's

546
00:28:58,400 --> 00:29:00,720
Speaker 3: other individual bucks that don't mind it at all. And

547
00:29:00,800 --> 00:29:03,000
Speaker 3: I'm talking a chair box four or five, six, seven

548
00:29:03,120 --> 00:29:06,440
Speaker 3: years old. They'll walk out and it doesn't matter. It

549
00:29:06,440 --> 00:29:09,640
Speaker 3: could be November and two or three of them will

550
00:29:09,640 --> 00:29:12,320
Speaker 3: walk out together into a food plot to look for dose.

551
00:29:13,200 --> 00:29:16,920
Speaker 3: They don't mind each other's company. And those are the

552
00:29:16,920 --> 00:29:19,680
Speaker 3: ones that I think are a lot easier for me

553
00:29:19,720 --> 00:29:22,960
Speaker 3: because I got a fairly small property. If I had

554
00:29:22,960 --> 00:29:26,560
Speaker 3: several hundred acres, it'd be different. And the other thing

555
00:29:26,600 --> 00:29:33,760
Speaker 3: I've tried to do is, besides diversifying my food sources,

556
00:29:34,320 --> 00:29:39,280
Speaker 3: I've really tried to diversify my bedding cover into you know,

557
00:29:39,320 --> 00:29:43,440
Speaker 3: I've got the switch grass fields, I've got well, i

558
00:29:43,480 --> 00:29:46,120
Speaker 3: got three different getting ready to plant next spring, I'll

559
00:29:46,120 --> 00:29:49,760
Speaker 3: plant my fourth different field and switch grass. So you

560
00:29:49,800 --> 00:29:53,360
Speaker 3: know I've got one place on the farm. It's in

561
00:29:53,480 --> 00:29:56,040
Speaker 3: a Actually there's two that I can think of up

562
00:29:56,040 --> 00:29:58,800
Speaker 3: the top of my head that are within these switch

563
00:29:58,880 --> 00:30:01,720
Speaker 3: grass fields. I've always got a good buck betted there.

564
00:30:01,760 --> 00:30:05,440
Speaker 3: One of them is in a corner where two miscantis

565
00:30:06,200 --> 00:30:11,040
Speaker 3: edges form a corner in the switchgrass, and there always

566
00:30:11,080 --> 00:30:13,760
Speaker 3: seems to be a good buck betted there. Another one

567
00:30:13,840 --> 00:30:16,760
Speaker 3: is there there's a kind of a warsh throughout the

568
00:30:16,800 --> 00:30:20,480
Speaker 3: switchgrass field, and on one hillside there's a spot where

569
00:30:20,480 --> 00:30:24,440
Speaker 3: there always seems to be a good buck bed. And

570
00:30:24,480 --> 00:30:27,200
Speaker 3: by breaking it up like that and really thick cover

571
00:30:27,280 --> 00:30:29,680
Speaker 3: helps too, because you know, a buck is betted in

572
00:30:29,720 --> 00:30:32,960
Speaker 3: that switch grass, he can't see, you know, ten feet

573
00:30:33,000 --> 00:30:36,760
Speaker 3: in front of him, and yeah, he knows what's around him,

574
00:30:36,760 --> 00:30:39,360
Speaker 3: and he can smell other deer and whatever, but he

575
00:30:39,400 --> 00:30:41,880
Speaker 3: doesn't see him like he would in like an open

576
00:30:41,920 --> 00:30:47,680
Speaker 3: wooded type cover. So you know, diversity of betting cover helps,

577
00:30:48,280 --> 00:30:51,960
Speaker 3: and then breaking it up, you know, into different sections

578
00:30:52,120 --> 00:30:55,080
Speaker 3: of betting cover so that you know, one buck is

579
00:30:55,160 --> 00:30:58,360
Speaker 3: betted into this switchgrass patch and then over there's another

580
00:30:58,400 --> 00:31:03,760
Speaker 3: switchgrass patch with another buck. And I've I've learned a

581
00:31:03,760 --> 00:31:06,760
Speaker 3: lot since starting to manage this farm thirty years ago

582
00:31:06,840 --> 00:31:09,640
Speaker 3: or put it together, and it kind of blew out,

583
00:31:09,760 --> 00:31:13,400
Speaker 3: blew away some of the ideas that people have in

584
00:31:13,440 --> 00:31:18,760
Speaker 3: regards to the management of bucks. And and that's one

585
00:31:18,800 --> 00:31:21,920
Speaker 3: of the things is I'm holding way more bucks than

586
00:31:21,920 --> 00:31:22,920
Speaker 3: I ever thought I could.

587
00:31:24,960 --> 00:31:28,040
Speaker 2: What would that well, what is that in your estimation?

588
00:31:28,160 --> 00:31:31,560
Speaker 2: Like how many I mean, I recognize its like a

589
00:31:31,640 --> 00:31:34,040
Speaker 2: rough estimate, but how many bucks are you holding? How

590
00:31:34,040 --> 00:31:36,160
Speaker 2: many mature bucks do you think are on that I'm

591
00:31:36,200 --> 00:31:39,080
Speaker 2: just kind of curious what you have achieved given those

592
00:31:39,320 --> 00:31:40,400
Speaker 2: ideas you just mentioned.

593
00:31:42,000 --> 00:31:44,280
Speaker 3: Well, that varies by the time of the season. In

594
00:31:44,280 --> 00:31:47,400
Speaker 3: the summer, I've got none here really. During the rut,

595
00:31:47,520 --> 00:31:49,840
Speaker 3: you know, I will have let's just say bucks that

596
00:31:49,880 --> 00:31:53,240
Speaker 3: are four and older. Typically, I'll have at least a

597
00:31:53,280 --> 00:31:56,560
Speaker 3: half a dozen well for and older bucks on one

598
00:31:56,640 --> 00:32:00,240
Speaker 3: hundred and twenty acres. Yeah, during the late sea in

599
00:32:00,240 --> 00:32:02,800
Speaker 3: when the rut's over and we get bad weather and

600
00:32:02,840 --> 00:32:07,280
Speaker 3: they're concentrated on the food, you know, I can probably

601
00:32:07,320 --> 00:32:09,640
Speaker 3: up that by at least two or three others showing up.

602
00:32:09,680 --> 00:32:13,160
Speaker 3: So I could actually have up to ten bucks four

603
00:32:13,280 --> 00:32:15,000
Speaker 3: years old and older during the late season.

604
00:32:15,920 --> 00:32:20,120
Speaker 2: Wow. Yeah, that's pretty incredible. So you mentioned that one

605
00:32:20,160 --> 00:32:26,120
Speaker 2: of the truisms of old bucks is that they're usually

606
00:32:26,160 --> 00:32:29,480
Speaker 2: all different. They've got those unique personalis just like mature

607
00:32:29,480 --> 00:32:32,400
Speaker 2: old men, Right, We've all got our personality traits and quirks.

608
00:32:33,960 --> 00:32:38,960
Speaker 2: But is there anything that you found to be a

609
00:32:39,000 --> 00:32:43,160
Speaker 2: trend or pretty true across the board when you do

610
00:32:43,240 --> 00:32:45,520
Speaker 2: get to those five, six, seven, eight year old deer?

611
00:32:45,520 --> 00:32:47,880
Speaker 2: Is there anything that does stand out? Is almost as

612
00:32:47,880 --> 00:32:50,080
Speaker 2: close as you get to a rule. I guess you

613
00:32:50,160 --> 00:32:53,080
Speaker 2: mentioned one being like the tighter core area, But is

614
00:32:53,080 --> 00:32:55,680
Speaker 2: there anything else that does stand out is pretty darn

615
00:32:55,720 --> 00:32:56,760
Speaker 2: consistent with those deer?

616
00:32:58,280 --> 00:33:03,120
Speaker 3: Yeah, without a doubt. You know, any mature black desires

617
00:33:03,160 --> 00:33:07,280
Speaker 3: freedom of human intrusion, and the older they get, the

618
00:33:07,320 --> 00:33:09,880
Speaker 3: more important that becomes to them. And when their home

619
00:33:10,000 --> 00:33:13,800
Speaker 3: range shrinks as they get older, it's shrinking around that

620
00:33:13,960 --> 00:33:17,560
Speaker 3: area that they have found the least amount of human intrusion.

621
00:33:17,880 --> 00:33:19,760
Speaker 3: And that's why I think it's so important how you

622
00:33:19,840 --> 00:33:23,520
Speaker 3: manage a property. And you know, I know, Mark, we've

623
00:33:23,520 --> 00:33:26,400
Speaker 3: talked before we started recording here that you just got

624
00:33:26,440 --> 00:33:30,200
Speaker 3: on the Whitetail Master Academy, and we just released a

625
00:33:30,280 --> 00:33:35,040
Speaker 3: video a day or two ago titled the Four Cornerstones

626
00:33:35,640 --> 00:33:38,480
Speaker 3: of building a world class white tail Property, and that's

627
00:33:38,520 --> 00:33:41,880
Speaker 3: exactly what we're talking about here. And I think one

628
00:33:42,200 --> 00:33:46,240
Speaker 3: huge key is, and it's the number one on the video,

629
00:33:46,360 --> 00:33:49,400
Speaker 3: just to give everybody a preview, is the layout of

630
00:33:49,440 --> 00:33:52,800
Speaker 3: the property. And the layout of the property is something

631
00:33:52,800 --> 00:33:55,200
Speaker 3: that you can do nothing about. It's what you're given,

632
00:33:55,960 --> 00:33:58,800
Speaker 3: its terrain features, it's how it connects to other properties

633
00:33:58,840 --> 00:34:02,960
Speaker 3: around it, and that's huge. Every property has a ceiling.

634
00:34:03,360 --> 00:34:05,240
Speaker 3: You know that the top end box that you're ever

635
00:34:05,280 --> 00:34:10,960
Speaker 3: going to grow there is the ceiling. And some properties

636
00:34:11,000 --> 00:34:14,000
Speaker 3: have a lot higher ceiling than others. And when I started,

637
00:34:14,040 --> 00:34:17,600
Speaker 3: I never realized that my property the ceiling is two

638
00:34:17,640 --> 00:34:21,680
Speaker 3: hundred inches plus. I just didn't see that coming. Other

639
00:34:21,760 --> 00:34:24,040
Speaker 3: properties in other areas of the country the top end

640
00:34:24,040 --> 00:34:27,600
Speaker 3: maybe one hundred and twenty inches. And no matter what

641
00:34:27,680 --> 00:34:29,680
Speaker 3: you do as a land manager, you're never going to

642
00:34:29,719 --> 00:34:33,560
Speaker 3: get past that. And that's often due to the layout

643
00:34:33,600 --> 00:34:36,080
Speaker 3: of the property, how it connects with what's around it.

644
00:34:36,120 --> 00:34:38,879
Speaker 3: I mean, if you've got forty acres and you got

645
00:34:39,200 --> 00:34:43,080
Speaker 3: extreme hunting pressure on all sides of you. Guys that

646
00:34:43,120 --> 00:34:45,600
Speaker 3: are shooting anything that walks, you're going to have a

647
00:34:45,600 --> 00:34:49,279
Speaker 3: hard time, you know, getting box past about two years old.

648
00:34:49,719 --> 00:34:52,439
Speaker 3: And you got to start. When you want to build

649
00:34:52,440 --> 00:34:54,440
Speaker 3: a world class property, you got to start with a

650
00:34:54,480 --> 00:34:55,839
Speaker 3: property that lays out good.

651
00:34:56,800 --> 00:35:01,120
Speaker 2: Yeah. So back to something he said second ago, which

652
00:35:01,320 --> 00:35:06,239
Speaker 2: was these really old deer don't want human pressure, right,

653
00:35:06,480 --> 00:35:09,120
Speaker 2: and they find that they seek out those places based

654
00:35:09,160 --> 00:35:11,080
Speaker 2: on the layout. They can find those pockets where they

655
00:35:11,080 --> 00:35:14,160
Speaker 2: feel safe, and as we talked about earlier, they seem

656
00:35:14,200 --> 00:35:16,680
Speaker 2: to find that zone where they build confidence, where they've

657
00:35:16,719 --> 00:35:22,279
Speaker 2: consistently stayed away from humans, they become comfortable there. I've

658
00:35:22,360 --> 00:35:26,800
Speaker 2: wondered with that kind of deer that demands an absence

659
00:35:26,840 --> 00:35:30,359
Speaker 2: of human pressure once they get to that age six, seven,

660
00:35:30,400 --> 00:35:33,400
Speaker 2: eight years old, I'm curious if you've found them to

661
00:35:33,480 --> 00:35:37,800
Speaker 2: be more or less impacted by pressure at that point,

662
00:35:38,000 --> 00:35:41,239
Speaker 2: because part of me thinks, like, well, if a deer

663
00:35:41,360 --> 00:35:43,760
Speaker 2: seven or eight and he's found his little bedding spot

664
00:35:43,840 --> 00:35:45,719
Speaker 2: and his little sanctuary and he's been safe there over

665
00:35:45,760 --> 00:35:48,239
Speaker 2: the years, it might be pretty hard to push that

666
00:35:48,280 --> 00:35:50,759
Speaker 2: deer out of there because he knows this place works

667
00:35:50,800 --> 00:35:52,760
Speaker 2: for him, like it's worked for him for years and years.

668
00:35:53,320 --> 00:35:56,000
Speaker 2: My assumption might be, like, man, if I did have

669
00:35:56,040 --> 00:35:57,960
Speaker 2: to get aggressive, it'd probably take a lot in a

670
00:35:58,000 --> 00:36:00,600
Speaker 2: consistent amount of pressure to finally push deer out of

671
00:36:00,600 --> 00:36:04,000
Speaker 2: there or to blow them out, because the years have

672
00:36:04,080 --> 00:36:06,120
Speaker 2: proven this to be safe for him. So that's one assumption.

673
00:36:06,200 --> 00:36:08,520
Speaker 2: But maybe the flip side is true, which is man,

674
00:36:09,040 --> 00:36:11,480
Speaker 2: they're so sensitive to it, that's the only reason why

675
00:36:11,520 --> 00:36:15,080
Speaker 2: they survived to this point. They're not going to tolerate anything.

676
00:36:15,719 --> 00:36:19,880
Speaker 2: What's your experience been with how a really mature buck handles,

677
00:36:20,360 --> 00:36:22,839
Speaker 2: you know, some kind of intrusion or an aggressive hunt

678
00:36:22,840 --> 00:36:26,040
Speaker 2: into his sanctuary when he's seven, or you make a

679
00:36:26,080 --> 00:36:28,840
Speaker 2: mistake and he smells you on the edge or something

680
00:36:28,880 --> 00:36:31,960
Speaker 2: like that. What have you seen in those situations.

681
00:36:32,760 --> 00:36:35,640
Speaker 3: Well, that really comes back to the individual buck again.

682
00:36:35,840 --> 00:36:39,000
Speaker 3: Some of them will tolerate almost nothing, and others will

683
00:36:39,520 --> 00:36:42,960
Speaker 3: tolerate a lot. I think the big thing with those

684
00:36:43,040 --> 00:36:49,720
Speaker 3: deer is that when you're doing projects besides hunting, working

685
00:36:49,760 --> 00:36:53,480
Speaker 3: food plots, checking trail cameras or whatever, the last thing

686
00:36:53,520 --> 00:36:55,919
Speaker 3: you want to do is slip up on a buck

687
00:36:55,960 --> 00:37:00,359
Speaker 3: and betting or jumping real close to his bed. If

688
00:37:00,360 --> 00:37:04,680
Speaker 3: he can hear you coming on a you know, a

689
00:37:04,840 --> 00:37:08,440
Speaker 3: tractor or whatever. He has time to decide how he

690
00:37:08,480 --> 00:37:10,279
Speaker 3: wants to react. Is he wanted to just put his

691
00:37:10,280 --> 00:37:12,239
Speaker 3: head down to the ground and let you pass by.

692
00:37:12,880 --> 00:37:16,759
Speaker 3: Does he want to you know, skip away, you know,

693
00:37:16,880 --> 00:37:19,239
Speaker 3: keep his head low to the ground and trot into

694
00:37:19,280 --> 00:37:22,839
Speaker 3: the brush. What's he want to do? And as long

695
00:37:22,880 --> 00:37:28,480
Speaker 3: as he escapes that encounter, he feels confident in his

696
00:37:28,600 --> 00:37:31,720
Speaker 3: method that if he lays tight and lets you pass,

697
00:37:31,800 --> 00:37:36,200
Speaker 3: he feels he just gains confidence in that approach to danger.

698
00:37:36,840 --> 00:37:39,600
Speaker 3: And as time goes on, as the years roll by,

699
00:37:40,400 --> 00:37:43,480
Speaker 3: he becomes more and more likely to lay tight and

700
00:37:43,560 --> 00:37:49,320
Speaker 3: let danger pass. If he flees, then he's ben. He

701
00:37:49,360 --> 00:37:53,240
Speaker 3: lives because he fleed, he becomes more likely to flee.

702
00:37:53,840 --> 00:37:56,640
Speaker 3: And I think it's a lot of times these bucks

703
00:37:56,680 --> 00:38:00,239
Speaker 3: are they've got a memory, you know, they remember where

704
00:38:00,280 --> 00:38:04,280
Speaker 3: they encounter danger. For example, they remember where they smelled

705
00:38:04,280 --> 00:38:06,160
Speaker 3: that guy in his tree stand, or they seen that

706
00:38:06,200 --> 00:38:09,360
Speaker 3: guy climbing a tree or whatever, and they file that

707
00:38:09,480 --> 00:38:13,600
Speaker 3: away for later use. And I think to some degree,

708
00:38:13,600 --> 00:38:17,440
Speaker 3: we can turn that around against them. We can condition

709
00:38:17,560 --> 00:38:22,120
Speaker 3: them to certain human activities on a property. And it's

710
00:38:22,239 --> 00:38:25,960
Speaker 3: actually putting no pressure whatsoever. For example, working food plots,

711
00:38:26,000 --> 00:38:28,359
Speaker 3: they hear the guy coming on the tractor and they

712
00:38:28,400 --> 00:38:30,520
Speaker 3: know he's in this one little area for a while

713
00:38:30,760 --> 00:38:33,799
Speaker 3: and then he leaves. You know, they get used to that.

714
00:38:34,160 --> 00:38:37,960
Speaker 3: So I think we can we condition these bucks as

715
00:38:38,000 --> 00:38:41,680
Speaker 3: they're younger and growing up to react in certain ways

716
00:38:41,719 --> 00:38:43,000
Speaker 3: to different forms of pressure.

717
00:38:44,280 --> 00:38:48,279
Speaker 2: Yep, have you taken advantage of that? Then? From a

718
00:38:48,360 --> 00:38:51,560
Speaker 2: hunting perspective, I imagine there are certain ways you've done that.

719
00:38:51,640 --> 00:38:54,120
Speaker 2: But have you been able to over the years condition

720
00:38:54,239 --> 00:38:56,919
Speaker 2: them to certain things that, then you know, not only

721
00:38:56,960 --> 00:38:58,919
Speaker 2: allow you to get a food plot in without blowing

722
00:38:59,000 --> 00:39:01,520
Speaker 2: up your property, but actually have led to hunting success.

723
00:39:03,640 --> 00:39:06,319
Speaker 3: Well, when I go to hunt, I don't want that

724
00:39:06,360 --> 00:39:08,839
Speaker 3: deer to have any idea I'm anywhere around. I want

725
00:39:08,840 --> 00:39:11,840
Speaker 3: to slip in silent and get in my stand or

726
00:39:11,840 --> 00:39:16,360
Speaker 3: my blind or whatever. And because I think once he

727
00:39:16,520 --> 00:39:19,920
Speaker 3: knows there's human activity in the area, he's not going

728
00:39:20,000 --> 00:39:22,600
Speaker 3: to just freely get up and waltz around for a

729
00:39:22,640 --> 00:39:24,880
Speaker 3: period of time. Now, whether that period of time is

730
00:39:25,400 --> 00:39:29,000
Speaker 3: a couple hours or until it's dark can vary by

731
00:39:29,040 --> 00:39:31,160
Speaker 3: buck to buck. So when I go hunting, I want

732
00:39:31,200 --> 00:39:35,319
Speaker 3: to slip into that stand without spooking any deer whatsoever.

733
00:39:35,560 --> 00:39:37,640
Speaker 3: I want to go in silently. I don't want somebody

734
00:39:37,760 --> 00:39:39,719
Speaker 3: dropping me off on a tract or anything like that.

735
00:39:39,840 --> 00:39:42,759
Speaker 3: I want to get in as silent as possible and

736
00:39:42,880 --> 00:39:46,680
Speaker 3: undisturb or and have undisturbed deer you know around me.

737
00:39:47,320 --> 00:39:51,960
Speaker 2: Yeap makes sense. So let's let's paint a picture here

738
00:39:52,600 --> 00:39:56,480
Speaker 2: of no again, knowing that each dear is unique. So

739
00:39:56,560 --> 00:39:58,719
Speaker 2: you're gonna have to bear with me here and generalize

740
00:39:58,719 --> 00:40:03,000
Speaker 2: a little bit. But if you were, let's say, writing

741
00:40:03,000 --> 00:40:04,680
Speaker 2: a book right now, we're painting a picture of a

742
00:40:04,760 --> 00:40:07,200
Speaker 2: day in the life of this supermature buck. We're going

743
00:40:07,280 --> 00:40:09,160
Speaker 2: to talk one of these six or seven or eight

744
00:40:09,280 --> 00:40:11,799
Speaker 2: year old bucks that's made it to the tippy top

745
00:40:11,840 --> 00:40:14,400
Speaker 2: of the mountain. I want to talk about what that

746
00:40:14,480 --> 00:40:18,720
Speaker 2: buck's life looks like, and how he chooses a bed,

747
00:40:19,040 --> 00:40:21,360
Speaker 2: and when he gets up and moves off to feed,

748
00:40:21,440 --> 00:40:23,600
Speaker 2: and how he travels to a food source, how he

749
00:40:23,719 --> 00:40:25,840
Speaker 2: chooses what food source he wants to go to in

750
00:40:25,880 --> 00:40:28,879
Speaker 2: a given day. Can you walk me through a hypothetical

751
00:40:28,920 --> 00:40:32,959
Speaker 2: of what you've seen or learned about how a deer

752
00:40:33,000 --> 00:40:38,160
Speaker 2: like that might operate in a day like that? And

753
00:40:38,360 --> 00:40:42,840
Speaker 2: I guess and one qualifier sorry don specifically king in

754
00:40:42,960 --> 00:40:45,400
Speaker 2: on like how the choices he makes are things he

755
00:40:45,440 --> 00:40:47,440
Speaker 2: does are different than that three year old or four

756
00:40:47,520 --> 00:40:47,960
Speaker 2: year old buck.

757
00:40:48,040 --> 00:40:54,280
Speaker 3: Right, Yeah, and I think again that changes throughout the season. Yeah,

758
00:40:54,520 --> 00:40:57,200
Speaker 3: but typically, you know, his bed is going to be

759
00:40:57,280 --> 00:41:02,759
Speaker 3: chosen where he can either where he's he feels he's

760
00:41:02,840 --> 00:41:06,040
Speaker 3: not going to encounter danger. That That could be a

761
00:41:06,160 --> 00:41:11,239
Speaker 3: wide open, you know woods where there's just never been

762
00:41:11,280 --> 00:41:15,080
Speaker 3: any human activity that he's encountered, or human sin on

763
00:41:15,120 --> 00:41:18,680
Speaker 3: the ground that he's encountered. It might be the thickest,

764
00:41:18,760 --> 00:41:21,279
Speaker 3: nastiest stuff. It may be a switchgrass field where he

765
00:41:21,320 --> 00:41:23,680
Speaker 3: can't see three feet in front of his face. But

766
00:41:23,760 --> 00:41:28,040
Speaker 3: he wants to be someplace where he knows the likelihood

767
00:41:28,080 --> 00:41:32,520
Speaker 3: of him encountering danger is very low. And the other

768
00:41:32,560 --> 00:41:35,640
Speaker 3: thing he wants is he wants an opportunity of danger

769
00:41:35,760 --> 00:41:38,880
Speaker 3: does come along to be able to escape that danger,

770
00:41:39,200 --> 00:41:42,920
Speaker 3: so he's got a direction he can flee. I know

771
00:41:43,000 --> 00:41:47,799
Speaker 3: a lot of in more heavily wooded areas, bucks like

772
00:41:47,840 --> 00:41:50,399
Speaker 3: to bed out on ridge points and sit and laying

773
00:41:50,480 --> 00:41:53,400
Speaker 3: up on that ridge point. You know, they can survey

774
00:41:53,520 --> 00:41:56,840
Speaker 3: all the terrain around them, and danger comes from one direction,

775
00:41:56,920 --> 00:42:02,200
Speaker 3: they just bail off the ridge the opposite direction. You know,

776
00:42:02,239 --> 00:42:05,920
Speaker 3: he's covering all his bases and that that's the area

777
00:42:05,920 --> 00:42:10,080
Speaker 3: where he wants to bed. He also when it comes

778
00:42:10,080 --> 00:42:13,160
Speaker 3: to getting up from that bed and heading towards food,

779
00:42:14,200 --> 00:42:18,040
Speaker 3: you know, that's where these older bocks become easier to

780
00:42:18,120 --> 00:42:21,440
Speaker 3: kill because I think if they've never encountered danger on

781
00:42:21,480 --> 00:42:25,640
Speaker 3: their route from their bed to their food, they're more

782
00:42:25,760 --> 00:42:29,040
Speaker 3: likely to take a chance with the wind. And not

783
00:42:29,160 --> 00:42:32,000
Speaker 3: that they do it very often, but you know, maybe

784
00:42:32,080 --> 00:42:36,319
Speaker 3: one day out of the month they'll give up the

785
00:42:36,400 --> 00:42:38,720
Speaker 3: wind to hit that food source. Now, if there's pressure,

786
00:42:39,080 --> 00:42:42,960
Speaker 3: they're never going to give it up. Partly, and when

787
00:42:42,960 --> 00:42:48,319
Speaker 3: he goes to that food he either wants a lot

788
00:42:48,360 --> 00:42:50,360
Speaker 3: of times if there's heavy cover on one side of

789
00:42:50,400 --> 00:42:53,920
Speaker 3: that food source, he will run the down wind edge

790
00:42:53,960 --> 00:42:57,080
Speaker 3: of that food source in the cover, send it as

791
00:42:57,080 --> 00:42:59,240
Speaker 3: the scent blows out of the food source back towards

792
00:42:59,280 --> 00:43:02,000
Speaker 3: him to make sure it's safe. And then at some

793
00:43:02,080 --> 00:43:05,680
Speaker 3: point he'll turn and go right into the wind as

794
00:43:05,680 --> 00:43:08,279
Speaker 3: he hits that food source. But he wants to use

795
00:43:09,160 --> 00:43:11,840
Speaker 3: the wind as much as he can. Know, my favorite

796
00:43:11,880 --> 00:43:16,799
Speaker 3: setup for hunting a buck is, you know, I want

797
00:43:16,800 --> 00:43:19,680
Speaker 3: to kill him on purpose. I mean, there's a lot

798
00:43:19,719 --> 00:43:22,040
Speaker 3: of big bucks to get killed by blind luck every year.

799
00:43:22,080 --> 00:43:25,359
Speaker 3: But I want to negate the luck factor as much

800
00:43:25,360 --> 00:43:28,080
Speaker 3: as possible, and I want to I want him to.

801
00:43:28,520 --> 00:43:30,560
Speaker 3: I want to try to figure what he's going to do,

802
00:43:30,600 --> 00:43:33,880
Speaker 3: because that puts the odds in my favor. And if

803
00:43:33,920 --> 00:43:37,480
Speaker 3: you've got a food source, and you've got a known

804
00:43:37,560 --> 00:43:40,680
Speaker 3: food source where you suspect he's going to go that afternoon,

805
00:43:40,680 --> 00:43:42,720
Speaker 3: and you've got a place where you suspect he's bedded

806
00:43:42,800 --> 00:43:45,640
Speaker 3: that day, he's going to move from from point A

807
00:43:45,760 --> 00:43:50,280
Speaker 3: to point B, and he wants to have the wind well,

808
00:43:50,600 --> 00:43:53,000
Speaker 3: instead of giving him the wind straight in his nose

809
00:43:54,000 --> 00:43:56,760
Speaker 3: as he makes that journey from the bed to the food,

810
00:43:57,239 --> 00:44:00,960
Speaker 3: if he's got a quartering wind, so it's not straight

811
00:44:00,960 --> 00:44:04,839
Speaker 3: in his nose, but it's hitting his nose at an angle. Well,

812
00:44:04,840 --> 00:44:08,440
Speaker 3: that allows me to get off to the side just

813
00:44:08,640 --> 00:44:11,480
Speaker 3: enough where my scent is blowing in his direction, but

814
00:44:11,520 --> 00:44:13,719
Speaker 3: it's blowing off to the side of his direction. So

815
00:44:14,200 --> 00:44:17,680
Speaker 3: he's actually doing everything that a big buck should to

816
00:44:17,719 --> 00:44:21,839
Speaker 3: stay alive. But the wind is just enough in your

817
00:44:21,960 --> 00:44:24,600
Speaker 3: favor that you can be on the right side of

818
00:44:24,640 --> 00:44:27,360
Speaker 3: the trail and him not sent you. Now, if you

819
00:44:27,480 --> 00:44:29,439
Speaker 3: was on the other side of the trail, he would

820
00:44:29,480 --> 00:44:33,040
Speaker 3: catch it for sure. Yeah, but that quartering nose wind

821
00:44:33,880 --> 00:44:37,600
Speaker 3: is the ideal situation for killing a mature bog.

822
00:44:38,600 --> 00:44:42,279
Speaker 2: So I have tried to pull off that kind of

823
00:44:42,280 --> 00:44:44,600
Speaker 2: set up plenty of times over the years. And one

824
00:44:44,680 --> 00:44:49,120
Speaker 2: thing that I have found to be challenging is in

825
00:44:49,200 --> 00:44:53,400
Speaker 2: areas with high deer densities, especially a lot of does,

826
00:44:55,360 --> 00:44:59,720
Speaker 2: and having that wind that knows just barely right, start

827
00:44:59,760 --> 00:45:01,920
Speaker 2: doing a little switching on me throughout the hunt and

828
00:45:01,920 --> 00:45:04,040
Speaker 2: it'll kind of curve over and kind of curve back

829
00:45:04,080 --> 00:45:06,560
Speaker 2: and get that slightly shifting wind and then getting busted

830
00:45:06,560 --> 00:45:10,400
Speaker 2: because there's just too many deer around. Have you found

831
00:45:10,640 --> 00:45:13,360
Speaker 2: there to be a certain wind speed that you need

832
00:45:13,560 --> 00:45:15,520
Speaker 2: to make that work? Do you want it to be

833
00:45:15,600 --> 00:45:19,680
Speaker 2: pretty high and consistent? Do you avoid really low winds

834
00:45:19,920 --> 00:45:22,239
Speaker 2: or does any of that matter when choosing a day

835
00:45:22,239 --> 00:45:25,200
Speaker 2: that you're in a hunt like that? And if that's

836
00:45:25,200 --> 00:45:28,080
Speaker 2: not the thing, is there anything else you've done to

837
00:45:28,200 --> 00:45:31,920
Speaker 2: negate the threat? I'm talking about the risk of getting

838
00:45:31,920 --> 00:45:34,279
Speaker 2: buggered by a dell before your big guy comes in.

839
00:45:35,280 --> 00:45:37,800
Speaker 3: Well, it all starts with where is your scent going,

840
00:45:38,480 --> 00:45:40,439
Speaker 3: and you want that scent and going in an area

841
00:45:40,480 --> 00:45:42,879
Speaker 3: where there's low likelihood that there's going to be deer

842
00:45:43,200 --> 00:45:47,200
Speaker 3: to catch your scent. I like a wind of about

843
00:45:47,560 --> 00:45:51,439
Speaker 3: say ten twelve miles an hour. That's steady. I don't

844
00:45:51,440 --> 00:45:54,719
Speaker 3: want to light and variable wind. But you know, you

845
00:45:54,840 --> 00:45:57,360
Speaker 3: check it three times and it's going three different directions,

846
00:45:57,400 --> 00:46:00,920
Speaker 3: it's the worst I want to Yeah, keep it steady.

847
00:46:03,840 --> 00:46:07,040
Speaker 3: The other thing is thermals come in to play big

848
00:46:07,080 --> 00:46:12,200
Speaker 3: time you as you get into the evening. That really

849
00:46:12,239 --> 00:46:16,200
Speaker 3: becomes a factor, you know, because as things start cooling down,

850
00:46:16,719 --> 00:46:19,920
Speaker 3: that your sense starts dropping and makes it you know,

851
00:46:20,160 --> 00:46:22,400
Speaker 3: a lot more likely than anything down wind is going

852
00:46:22,440 --> 00:46:26,000
Speaker 3: to smell you. But having that your scent going into

853
00:46:26,040 --> 00:46:29,040
Speaker 3: an area with a low likelihood of a deer encountering

854
00:46:29,080 --> 00:46:34,319
Speaker 3: it is huge whether it be an open field, and

855
00:46:34,440 --> 00:46:38,000
Speaker 3: deer can come out in open fields. But you know,

856
00:46:38,000 --> 00:46:40,399
Speaker 3: if you've got a prime food source past you, they're

857
00:46:40,440 --> 00:46:42,920
Speaker 3: they're more likely to go hit that prime food source.

858
00:46:42,960 --> 00:46:44,879
Speaker 3: And you got to have an idea where the deer

859
00:46:44,960 --> 00:46:47,560
Speaker 3: coming from and where they're going, a really good idea.

860
00:46:48,239 --> 00:46:53,440
Speaker 3: But as far as sin elimination products, I think they

861
00:46:53,719 --> 00:46:57,880
Speaker 3: probably most of them work to some degree, but I

862
00:46:57,920 --> 00:47:00,920
Speaker 3: don't trust them at all. It's one percent the wind

863
00:47:00,960 --> 00:47:04,000
Speaker 3: for me. If if a deer, if there's a good

864
00:47:04,080 --> 00:47:05,920
Speaker 3: wind and the deer's not down wind to me, he's

865
00:47:05,920 --> 00:47:07,399
Speaker 3: not gonna smell you. I don't care if you worked

866
00:47:07,440 --> 00:47:09,640
Speaker 3: in a hog barn all day, if he just it's

867
00:47:09,680 --> 00:47:10,400
Speaker 3: not gonna happen.

868
00:47:10,760 --> 00:47:14,839
Speaker 2: Yeah. Speaking of wind and how they use wind when

869
00:47:14,880 --> 00:47:18,319
Speaker 2: when going to feed, you mentioned when they're choosing where

870
00:47:18,320 --> 00:47:20,120
Speaker 2: they want to bed, they want safety and they want

871
00:47:20,120 --> 00:47:25,359
Speaker 2: an escape route. But there's also some theories around how

872
00:47:25,360 --> 00:47:28,000
Speaker 2: they might use wind when choosing where they bed. Do

873
00:47:28,080 --> 00:47:30,200
Speaker 2: you see anything like that? Do you think wind impacts

874
00:47:30,200 --> 00:47:33,200
Speaker 2: where they choose to bed? And it's so how Oh?

875
00:47:33,239 --> 00:47:36,560
Speaker 3: Absolutely? And I've got a video out on that as well,

876
00:47:36,600 --> 00:47:40,800
Speaker 3: where I show real life examples of if a buck

877
00:47:40,880 --> 00:47:43,279
Speaker 3: knows he wants to bed at a certain spot, he

878
00:47:43,360 --> 00:47:45,279
Speaker 3: will first. A lot of times they do this in

879
00:47:45,320 --> 00:47:48,080
Speaker 3: the dark, before it's even daylight. They will run the

880
00:47:48,160 --> 00:47:50,360
Speaker 3: down wind edge of that area they're going to bed

881
00:47:51,000 --> 00:47:53,200
Speaker 3: to scince check it first, and then they will jay

882
00:47:53,239 --> 00:47:56,799
Speaker 3: hook right back into it in bed. I've seen that

883
00:47:56,880 --> 00:47:59,520
Speaker 3: many times on morning hunts. It usually happens right at

884
00:47:59,600 --> 00:48:02,040
Speaker 3: daylight with a mature buck, and like I said, a

885
00:48:02,080 --> 00:48:03,920
Speaker 3: lot of times it happens before the sun's even up.

886
00:48:03,920 --> 00:48:06,000
Speaker 3: We don't even see it happen. But yeah, they will

887
00:48:06,040 --> 00:48:09,000
Speaker 3: run the down wind edge that betting cover. And that's

888
00:48:09,000 --> 00:48:11,920
Speaker 3: one of those deals, you know, where I see and

889
00:48:12,040 --> 00:48:16,040
Speaker 3: hear stories or whatever occasionally where a guy says, well,

890
00:48:16,640 --> 00:48:19,640
Speaker 3: I've found where my target buck is betting, So I'm

891
00:48:19,680 --> 00:48:21,920
Speaker 3: going to go in about three in the morning and

892
00:48:21,960 --> 00:48:23,960
Speaker 3: I'm gonna get in my stand about three in the

893
00:48:23,960 --> 00:48:25,719
Speaker 3: morning and beat him to his bed and I'll go

894
00:48:25,719 --> 00:48:28,360
Speaker 3: and be waiting there for him. Well that's fine and

895
00:48:28,480 --> 00:48:31,160
Speaker 3: dandy until he runs the down wind edge in the dark,

896
00:48:31,920 --> 00:48:35,360
Speaker 3: scent checktion finds you and then vacates the area with

897
00:48:35,400 --> 00:48:36,920
Speaker 3: that you ever knowing it even happened.

898
00:48:37,280 --> 00:48:39,759
Speaker 2: Yeah, Yeah, that's one of those easier said than done

899
00:48:39,840 --> 00:48:44,960
Speaker 2: kind of things for sure. Right, So you mentioned that

900
00:48:45,000 --> 00:48:47,120
Speaker 2: there's maybe like a bell curve with his deer as

901
00:48:47,120 --> 00:48:49,640
Speaker 2: far as the ease of hunting them, And maybe ease

902
00:48:49,680 --> 00:48:51,720
Speaker 2: isn't the right word, but if we're looking at those

903
00:48:51,800 --> 00:48:55,120
Speaker 2: one two three year old bucks being relatively easy because

904
00:48:55,120 --> 00:48:56,880
Speaker 2: they're moving a lot, they're making mistakes, and then they

905
00:48:56,960 --> 00:48:59,000
Speaker 2: hit that four and five year old range and now

906
00:48:59,040 --> 00:49:02,160
Speaker 2: they you know, shrink that what they're doing. They're not

907
00:49:02,239 --> 00:49:05,480
Speaker 2: as active, maybe they're a little less daylight active. But

908
00:49:05,480 --> 00:49:07,240
Speaker 2: then when you reach that other side of the curve

909
00:49:07,480 --> 00:49:11,040
Speaker 2: six seven eight, now they've gotten overconfident. They've found their

910
00:49:11,160 --> 00:49:15,960
Speaker 2: safe area. You mentioned that maybe those deer become easier

911
00:49:15,960 --> 00:49:17,839
Speaker 2: to hunt in a certain way because you know them,

912
00:49:17,880 --> 00:49:20,719
Speaker 2: you've got years of history, you've developed an understanding of

913
00:49:20,760 --> 00:49:27,040
Speaker 2: their personality traits. How do you go about keeping track

914
00:49:27,080 --> 00:49:28,680
Speaker 2: of all that stuff with one of these deer? Is

915
00:49:28,680 --> 00:49:31,400
Speaker 2: it all just in your head? Or do you take notes?

916
00:49:31,440 --> 00:49:34,000
Speaker 2: Do you have a journal? Do you track data and

917
00:49:34,080 --> 00:49:37,879
Speaker 2: pictures and observations and a spreadsheet or anything like? How

918
00:49:37,880 --> 00:49:39,560
Speaker 2: do you make sure this stuff isn't just one ear

919
00:49:39,600 --> 00:49:40,439
Speaker 2: and one out the other.

920
00:49:42,480 --> 00:49:46,680
Speaker 3: Well, it's my life's passion, so a lot of it's

921
00:49:46,719 --> 00:49:48,359
Speaker 3: in my head, but a lot of it is also

922
00:49:48,560 --> 00:49:52,360
Speaker 3: trail camera data that I store. Well, you know, we

923
00:49:52,400 --> 00:49:55,400
Speaker 3: should probably back up just a second mark because I

924
00:49:55,400 --> 00:49:58,279
Speaker 3: don't want anybody to get the wrong idea. When that

925
00:49:58,360 --> 00:50:01,200
Speaker 3: box starts becoming easier to hunt as he gets older,

926
00:50:01,880 --> 00:50:04,319
Speaker 3: he's never gonna be as easy as he was at three.

927
00:50:04,440 --> 00:50:06,320
Speaker 3: A three year old buck is still a pretty easy

928
00:50:06,320 --> 00:50:09,759
Speaker 3: buck to kill. And yeah, he's gonna be easier than

929
00:50:09,800 --> 00:50:12,600
Speaker 3: maybe he was at four and five. But that as

930
00:50:12,640 --> 00:50:15,040
Speaker 3: that bell curve starts to slope off on the other side,

931
00:50:15,080 --> 00:50:17,360
Speaker 3: it's gonna it's not gonna be a sharp drop or

932
00:50:17,360 --> 00:50:18,880
Speaker 3: boom all of a sudden he becomes easy.

933
00:50:19,040 --> 00:50:19,439
Speaker 2: Great point.

934
00:50:19,480 --> 00:50:22,360
Speaker 3: It's gonna be a slow, gradual decline where he becomes

935
00:50:22,400 --> 00:50:25,720
Speaker 3: slightly easier, but he's never going to become as easy

936
00:50:25,719 --> 00:50:27,480
Speaker 3: as he was as a three year old. Yea on

937
00:50:27,520 --> 00:50:28,640
Speaker 3: the other side of that curve.

938
00:50:28,880 --> 00:50:33,480
Speaker 2: Yeah, so yeah, thanks for thanks for clarifying that. So,

939
00:50:33,480 --> 00:50:36,200
Speaker 2: so you're you're tracking your photos, it's got a lot

940
00:50:36,239 --> 00:50:40,200
Speaker 2: in your head when you're sitting down leading into a

941
00:50:40,239 --> 00:50:43,840
Speaker 2: season or leading into a hunt. What's that like analysis

942
00:50:44,000 --> 00:50:46,120
Speaker 2: process look like for you when you're trying to choose,

943
00:50:46,120 --> 00:50:47,719
Speaker 2: like how do I figure out how do I kill

944
00:50:47,719 --> 00:50:48,080
Speaker 2: this buck?

945
00:50:48,160 --> 00:50:48,279
Speaker 1: Right?

946
00:50:48,360 --> 00:50:51,440
Speaker 2: Let's say, you know, let's say Babe makes it through

947
00:50:51,480 --> 00:50:54,160
Speaker 2: you season and you're going to try to get out

948
00:50:54,160 --> 00:50:57,160
Speaker 2: there and get him, get him on the ground, you know,

949
00:50:57,280 --> 00:50:59,600
Speaker 2: and you're thinking through all your years of history with him,

950
00:51:00,360 --> 00:51:02,719
Speaker 2: are you looking back on individual I mean, I know

951
00:51:02,719 --> 00:51:04,960
Speaker 2: your big annual patterns, like are you thinking through man?

952
00:51:05,200 --> 00:51:09,120
Speaker 2: Last year? He daylighted on this date and I don't

953
00:51:09,160 --> 00:51:11,400
Speaker 2: have the right win. But it's the annual pattern like

954
00:51:11,640 --> 00:51:14,239
Speaker 2: can you walk me through your evening before hunt or

955
00:51:14,280 --> 00:51:17,200
Speaker 2: whenever it is where you do this whole. I don't

956
00:51:17,200 --> 00:51:18,680
Speaker 2: know what it looks like for you. For me, it's

957
00:51:18,800 --> 00:51:20,680
Speaker 2: kind of like those detective movies or threo's, like a

958
00:51:20,680 --> 00:51:22,759
Speaker 2: thousand pictures on the wall and strings between all the

959
00:51:22,800 --> 00:51:25,520
Speaker 2: pictures and the guy in the back like pulling his

960
00:51:25,600 --> 00:51:27,640
Speaker 2: hair out trying to figure it out. What's that look

961
00:51:27,719 --> 00:51:28,120
Speaker 2: like for you?

962
00:51:29,880 --> 00:51:36,400
Speaker 3: Well, as I'm watching these bucks mature, I'm It's not

963
00:51:36,600 --> 00:51:38,880
Speaker 3: like I one night, I go in and set up

964
00:51:38,920 --> 00:51:40,600
Speaker 3: my computer and I figure out what I want to do.

965
00:51:41,280 --> 00:51:45,440
Speaker 3: It's the pieces are slowly coming together over years before

966
00:51:45,440 --> 00:51:50,080
Speaker 3: I target that buck. And even like a year or

967
00:51:50,120 --> 00:51:52,480
Speaker 3: two before I'm going to target that buck, I know

968
00:51:53,719 --> 00:51:57,239
Speaker 3: where my best chance is to kill himr Like I'll

969
00:51:57,280 --> 00:51:59,359
Speaker 3: know that I've got two or three stands on my

970
00:51:59,400 --> 00:52:01,799
Speaker 3: farm where my very best odds that killing that deer

971
00:52:01,840 --> 00:52:06,080
Speaker 3: are and I will wait for the perfect conditions for

972
00:52:06,200 --> 00:52:09,120
Speaker 3: those stands and slip in and do it, and maybe

973
00:52:10,160 --> 00:52:12,279
Speaker 3: maybe it's a certain time of the year, you know,

974
00:52:12,400 --> 00:52:16,000
Speaker 3: Like I know once the bucks first week in November,

975
00:52:16,120 --> 00:52:19,520
Speaker 3: the bucks are starting to you know, scrape and move

976
00:52:19,560 --> 00:52:21,560
Speaker 3: a little bit more. I know I can count on

977
00:52:21,600 --> 00:52:26,680
Speaker 3: this buck to be at this particular location. And that's

978
00:52:26,680 --> 00:52:28,719
Speaker 3: he goes back to what I was saying earlier about

979
00:52:28,719 --> 00:52:33,680
Speaker 3: their certain stands. I just won't shoot a management buck

980
00:52:33,719 --> 00:52:36,440
Speaker 3: from because I don't want to booger them up for

981
00:52:37,320 --> 00:52:41,840
Speaker 3: you know, a primary target buck, and so I know

982
00:52:42,520 --> 00:52:46,200
Speaker 3: where I'm going to kill him, that's the big thing.

983
00:52:46,760 --> 00:52:49,000
Speaker 3: And then I just wait for the conditions to be

984
00:52:49,080 --> 00:52:52,120
Speaker 3: perfect for that location. And there may be two or

985
00:52:52,160 --> 00:52:57,239
Speaker 3: three of those locations that take totally different conditions to

986
00:52:57,600 --> 00:53:00,920
Speaker 3: be prime. But whatever it is, I wait for the prime,

987
00:53:01,480 --> 00:53:04,080
Speaker 3: the prime opportunity and the prime location, and I get

988
00:53:04,120 --> 00:53:10,640
Speaker 3: in and get it done.

989
00:53:17,560 --> 00:53:19,120
Speaker 2: If you're willing to share this, I don't know if

990
00:53:19,160 --> 00:53:20,960
Speaker 2: you are or not, But if you're willing to share,

991
00:53:21,840 --> 00:53:25,400
Speaker 2: could you detail for us what you think one of

992
00:53:25,400 --> 00:53:28,880
Speaker 2: those hypothetical prime locations might look like for babe, Like

993
00:53:28,920 --> 00:53:31,279
Speaker 2: I'm what I'm getting at. What I'm getting is like

994
00:53:31,320 --> 00:53:33,279
Speaker 2: trying to get a clear picture of like what is

995
00:53:33,360 --> 00:53:35,840
Speaker 2: one of these bulletproof setups where you can kill a

996
00:53:35,880 --> 00:53:38,279
Speaker 2: six year old buck. That's kind of the idea I'm

997
00:53:38,280 --> 00:53:39,839
Speaker 2: going for here. So if you've got an example you're

998
00:53:39,840 --> 00:53:42,120
Speaker 2: willing to share, I'd love to hear, like the very

999
00:53:42,120 --> 00:53:44,600
Speaker 2: specific details like how you're getting in, how you're getting out,

1000
00:53:44,600 --> 00:53:46,520
Speaker 2: what it's set up, why he should come through there,

1001
00:53:46,520 --> 00:53:49,560
Speaker 2: when he should come through there, and what makes that

1002
00:53:49,640 --> 00:53:51,840
Speaker 2: kind of place unique compared to your average run of

1003
00:53:51,840 --> 00:53:52,520
Speaker 2: the mail setup.

1004
00:53:53,680 --> 00:53:58,000
Speaker 3: Yep, I gotta I'll just describe perfectly one of the

1005
00:53:58,040 --> 00:54:00,880
Speaker 3: stands that I think I have actually a blind in

1006
00:54:00,920 --> 00:54:05,359
Speaker 3: this location, a great chance to kill babe, and it's

1007
00:54:05,360 --> 00:54:08,920
Speaker 3: on the edge of the sanctuary. But when I've got

1008
00:54:09,000 --> 00:54:10,879
Speaker 3: these stands on the edge of the sanctuary, I'm doing

1009
00:54:10,920 --> 00:54:16,000
Speaker 3: everything I can to make that stand. I mean, I

1010
00:54:16,080 --> 00:54:17,560
Speaker 3: want to do everything I can to turn a good

1011
00:54:17,560 --> 00:54:22,160
Speaker 3: stand into a great stand. And sometimes that's using a

1012
00:54:22,239 --> 00:54:25,120
Speaker 3: terrain feature or down trees or whatever to push that

1013
00:54:25,160 --> 00:54:28,040
Speaker 3: buck a little bit closer to the edge, you know,

1014
00:54:28,040 --> 00:54:29,759
Speaker 3: where it's going to push him up to the edge

1015
00:54:31,400 --> 00:54:33,560
Speaker 3: where I can slip in and have a stand and

1016
00:54:34,239 --> 00:54:37,880
Speaker 3: slip in undetected and hunt that stand. And there's pretty

1017
00:54:37,960 --> 00:54:40,719
Speaker 3: high odds that he's going to come within range. Well,

1018
00:54:40,760 --> 00:54:45,120
Speaker 3: in this particular location, I've planted a small grove of

1019
00:54:45,160 --> 00:54:49,040
Speaker 3: fruit trees in a little opening. It within the sanctuary,

1020
00:54:49,920 --> 00:54:53,000
Speaker 3: and it's close to the edge and on the edge

1021
00:54:53,040 --> 00:54:57,919
Speaker 3: of the sanctuary. I created a sanctuary twenty five thirty

1022
00:54:58,000 --> 00:55:00,919
Speaker 3: years ago, planted pine trees on the edge. There's two

1023
00:55:01,000 --> 00:55:04,719
Speaker 3: rows of pine trees which screens his view out to

1024
00:55:04,800 --> 00:55:08,480
Speaker 3: the open agfields. And i will walk across the open

1025
00:55:08,520 --> 00:55:13,879
Speaker 3: agfield with the wind right in my face. Just as

1026
00:55:13,920 --> 00:55:15,960
Speaker 3: soon as i get to that first row of pines,

1027
00:55:16,000 --> 00:55:19,520
Speaker 3: I'm going right up the ladder into the blind that's

1028
00:55:19,560 --> 00:55:22,640
Speaker 3: situated between those two rows of pines. And then right

1029
00:55:22,680 --> 00:55:27,480
Speaker 3: in front of that is a handful of pair and

1030
00:55:27,520 --> 00:55:32,560
Speaker 3: apple trees. Probably I'm gonna guess maybe seven or eight trees,

1031
00:55:33,080 --> 00:55:36,520
Speaker 3: but they do produce fruit now they're big enough. And

1032
00:55:36,560 --> 00:55:40,360
Speaker 3: then beyond that, surrounding that little grove of fruit trees

1033
00:55:40,960 --> 00:55:46,279
Speaker 3: is thick prime bedding cover. Well, in previous years, I'll

1034
00:55:46,360 --> 00:55:50,040
Speaker 3: keep a trail camera on that grove of fruit trees.

1035
00:55:50,080 --> 00:55:54,080
Speaker 3: In previous years, Babe has been there in October in

1036
00:55:54,239 --> 00:55:58,840
Speaker 3: daylight quite frequently, eating pairs and apples before he heads

1037
00:55:58,880 --> 00:56:02,200
Speaker 3: out to the other food plots or agfields to feed

1038
00:56:02,239 --> 00:56:06,239
Speaker 3: after dark. So it's just a prime location where I

1039
00:56:06,280 --> 00:56:07,960
Speaker 3: could not I mean, it's a place where you could

1040
00:56:07,960 --> 00:56:10,799
Speaker 3: sit and see eight or ten bucks in one afternoon.

1041
00:56:11,960 --> 00:56:15,040
Speaker 3: But he's shown me that he's not afraid to come

1042
00:56:15,080 --> 00:56:19,480
Speaker 3: in and feed there in daylight an hour before dark,

1043
00:56:20,640 --> 00:56:23,320
Speaker 3: especially the pairs. He seems to really like those pear trees,

1044
00:56:23,400 --> 00:56:26,960
Speaker 3: as do a lot of deer. But those there's two

1045
00:56:27,000 --> 00:56:29,480
Speaker 3: bigger pear trees that are right in front of that blind,

1046
00:56:30,120 --> 00:56:34,200
Speaker 3: probably twenty yards, and there is a great opportunity, and

1047
00:56:34,440 --> 00:56:37,920
Speaker 3: he's already moved into that area. I'm getting his pictures

1048
00:56:38,000 --> 00:56:42,080
Speaker 3: right now around that betting area nice and there's a

1049
00:56:42,320 --> 00:56:44,480
Speaker 3: very very good chance that he could be shot right

1050
00:56:44,520 --> 00:56:46,920
Speaker 3: there out of that mine. But I need a south

1051
00:56:47,040 --> 00:56:52,719
Speaker 3: wind and a fairly steady wind so that if I

1052
00:56:52,800 --> 00:56:54,919
Speaker 3: happen to make a little noise climbing up in that blind,

1053
00:56:54,960 --> 00:56:56,680
Speaker 3: I mean, he's going to be betted within one hundred

1054
00:56:56,760 --> 00:57:01,640
Speaker 3: yards of that blind, in that thick stuff. But a

1055
00:57:01,680 --> 00:57:03,799
Speaker 3: steady south wind will allow me to do that.

1056
00:57:04,640 --> 00:57:08,840
Speaker 2: Is that a spot where is that south wind going

1057
00:57:08,920 --> 00:57:10,680
Speaker 2: to give him the wind a little bit? And he's

1058
00:57:10,680 --> 00:57:12,200
Speaker 2: going to feel comfortable heading in there, or is this

1059
00:57:12,200 --> 00:57:15,239
Speaker 2: a situation where it's so thick, so screened, he's comfortable

1060
00:57:15,360 --> 00:57:17,560
Speaker 2: just moving eighty yards out of his bet or whatever,

1061
00:57:18,000 --> 00:57:19,640
Speaker 2: despite the wind not being good for him.

1062
00:57:21,040 --> 00:57:25,120
Speaker 3: He's typically going to come in with a crosswind, so

1063
00:57:25,560 --> 00:57:27,440
Speaker 3: he's not going to come in with a tail wind

1064
00:57:27,520 --> 00:57:30,640
Speaker 3: coming straight from the south with the wind at his back.

1065
00:57:30,960 --> 00:57:33,920
Speaker 3: But he's going to come in from one end or

1066
00:57:33,960 --> 00:57:37,680
Speaker 3: one side of that that little grove of fruit trees,

1067
00:57:37,920 --> 00:57:40,960
Speaker 3: and he's going to have a crosswind. But at the

1068
00:57:41,000 --> 00:57:43,440
Speaker 3: same time, he feels he's never been pressured in that

1069
00:57:44,680 --> 00:57:48,480
Speaker 3: betting sanctuary. He's never been pressured around those fruit trees.

1070
00:57:48,960 --> 00:57:50,880
Speaker 3: That's one of those spots that I'm never going to

1071
00:57:50,920 --> 00:57:52,080
Speaker 3: shoot a colbuck there.

1072
00:57:53,680 --> 00:57:58,880
Speaker 2: Yeah, sounds dynamite. You mentioned that he was daylight there

1073
00:57:59,160 --> 00:58:00,800
Speaker 2: last October? Is that right?

1074
00:58:02,000 --> 00:58:04,240
Speaker 3: Yeah? And in fact, if you want, I can send

1075
00:58:04,280 --> 00:58:06,520
Speaker 3: you some pictures of him at that par tree for

1076
00:58:07,320 --> 00:58:10,080
Speaker 3: your thumbnail or whatever for this podcast or put on

1077
00:58:10,080 --> 00:58:11,360
Speaker 3: the screen as we're talking here.

1078
00:58:12,040 --> 00:58:15,040
Speaker 2: So that brings to mind one of the things I've

1079
00:58:15,040 --> 00:58:17,800
Speaker 2: always wondered about, which is as these bucks get older

1080
00:58:17,840 --> 00:58:20,800
Speaker 2: and older and their core range kind of shrinks down

1081
00:58:21,680 --> 00:58:24,680
Speaker 2: have you seen that their annual patterns get tighter too, Like,

1082
00:58:25,160 --> 00:58:28,560
Speaker 2: do they become even more locked into a routine or

1083
00:58:28,640 --> 00:58:29,960
Speaker 2: is that or has that not been the case in

1084
00:58:30,040 --> 00:58:30,680
Speaker 2: your experience?

1085
00:58:31,960 --> 00:58:35,480
Speaker 3: And you know, I think once they hit about four

1086
00:58:35,640 --> 00:58:39,200
Speaker 3: years old, they're pretty much locked in. I don't think

1087
00:58:39,200 --> 00:58:44,160
Speaker 3: they lock in anymore. But basically each successive year just

1088
00:58:44,240 --> 00:58:46,600
Speaker 3: kind of reaffirms what their annual pattern is.

1089
00:58:47,640 --> 00:58:52,240
Speaker 2: Okay, so we talked about this years ago. Your theory

1090
00:58:52,280 --> 00:58:54,840
Speaker 2: is around annual patterns, but I guess I'm just curious

1091
00:58:54,560 --> 00:58:59,560
Speaker 2: if that's evolved at all, or how you have how

1092
00:58:59,720 --> 00:59:03,160
Speaker 2: other variables impact your thoughts on annual patterns, because I

1093
00:59:03,560 --> 00:59:07,040
Speaker 2: am constantly studying this now too, and I'm looking back

1094
00:59:07,040 --> 00:59:09,160
Speaker 2: at when a deer did something last year and when

1095
00:59:09,160 --> 00:59:12,520
Speaker 2: he did it the year before. And one of the

1096
00:59:12,520 --> 00:59:16,400
Speaker 2: things I'm debating a lot is trying to understand did

1097
00:59:16,440 --> 00:59:18,280
Speaker 2: he do this because of the date on the calendar,

1098
00:59:18,440 --> 00:59:20,520
Speaker 2: so is this like a time of year thing, or

1099
00:59:20,560 --> 00:59:23,400
Speaker 2: did he do this because of a other variable like

1100
00:59:23,440 --> 00:59:27,520
Speaker 2: a weather condition, wind direction, something like that. And So

1101
00:59:27,840 --> 00:59:30,240
Speaker 2: what I've found sometimes is I'll be looking at a

1102
00:59:30,320 --> 00:59:33,120
Speaker 2: hunt coming up and I'm like, man, this buck daylighted

1103
00:59:33,120 --> 00:59:35,880
Speaker 2: for two days during this first week of December. Let's say,

1104
00:59:36,480 --> 00:59:39,560
Speaker 2: so I see like a possible annual pattern kind of thing.

1105
00:59:39,640 --> 00:59:41,240
Speaker 2: He moved back in this area in December, so there's

1106
00:59:41,240 --> 00:59:45,080
Speaker 2: an opportunity there. But what if the weather doesn't match

1107
00:59:45,160 --> 00:59:47,000
Speaker 2: or is not that good, or what if the wind

1108
00:59:47,360 --> 00:59:49,400
Speaker 2: is very different than what it was last year during

1109
00:59:49,400 --> 00:59:53,760
Speaker 2: that period? Is it worth trying the right time of

1110
00:59:53,840 --> 00:59:56,720
Speaker 2: year to catch the pattern even if the conditions don't

1111
00:59:56,760 --> 00:59:58,960
Speaker 2: match up, or if the conditions are a little bit

1112
00:59:59,080 --> 01:00:01,800
Speaker 2: risky or something like that. That what's your take on that?

1113
01:00:04,000 --> 01:00:07,920
Speaker 3: Well? I think that you know, I've talked a lot

1114
01:00:07,960 --> 01:00:13,040
Speaker 3: about the annual pattern on various podcasts and magazine articles

1115
01:00:13,040 --> 01:00:16,640
Speaker 3: and whatever, and I think I did not do a

1116
01:00:16,720 --> 01:00:19,520
Speaker 3: real good job of explaining. I think people take it

1117
01:00:19,520 --> 01:00:22,320
Speaker 3: a little bit too literal, Like he showed up on

1118
01:00:22,360 --> 01:00:25,000
Speaker 3: November fifth, So next year, on November fifth, I need

1119
01:00:25,040 --> 01:00:27,800
Speaker 3: to be right where that camera was at. And it's

1120
01:00:27,840 --> 01:00:30,480
Speaker 3: a little bit looser than that. I think on November

1121
01:00:30,520 --> 01:00:33,560
Speaker 3: fifth the following year, he's going to be right close.

1122
01:00:33,600 --> 01:00:36,400
Speaker 3: He's going to be in that location. Now, whether he's

1123
01:00:36,440 --> 01:00:39,160
Speaker 3: going to be on his feet, whether you just mentioned

1124
01:00:39,280 --> 01:00:43,080
Speaker 3: may you know cause him to remain betted, but he's

1125
01:00:43,120 --> 01:00:46,880
Speaker 3: going to be close to there, and typically you know,

1126
01:00:47,000 --> 01:00:49,320
Speaker 3: he's not just coming through for a day or two.

1127
01:00:50,000 --> 01:00:53,400
Speaker 3: When he moves into a different part of his range,

1128
01:00:54,400 --> 01:00:58,560
Speaker 3: it's for a period of time. So I know that

1129
01:00:58,600 --> 01:01:01,080
Speaker 3: in the situation I just describe, if he shows up

1130
01:01:01,080 --> 01:01:06,920
Speaker 3: on November fifth, I know that, you know, around November fifth,

1131
01:01:07,000 --> 01:01:10,120
Speaker 3: give or take a few days either side, I've got

1132
01:01:10,120 --> 01:01:13,440
Speaker 3: a really good chance to kill that buck really close

1133
01:01:13,480 --> 01:01:15,680
Speaker 3: to where I got his picture. It doesn't have to

1134
01:01:15,720 --> 01:01:19,800
Speaker 3: be right there at that exact spot, but real close,

1135
01:01:20,480 --> 01:01:22,680
Speaker 3: and the day doesn't have to be the exact day,

1136
01:01:22,800 --> 01:01:24,280
Speaker 3: but real close to that date.

1137
01:01:24,760 --> 01:01:28,360
Speaker 2: Yeah. So how much weight, though, do you put on

1138
01:01:28,400 --> 01:01:34,320
Speaker 2: those outside factors, so that being wind or temperature, anything

1139
01:01:34,400 --> 01:01:36,160
Speaker 2: like that. So knowing that you've got a few days

1140
01:01:36,160 --> 01:01:38,000
Speaker 2: on either side that he's going to be in the zone,

1141
01:01:39,200 --> 01:01:42,200
Speaker 2: does that mean typically, let's say November fifth is the

1142
01:01:42,240 --> 01:01:43,840
Speaker 2: day last year, So now you're looking at a couple

1143
01:01:43,960 --> 01:01:46,240
Speaker 2: days on either side of November fifth, Would it just

1144
01:01:46,240 --> 01:01:48,720
Speaker 2: be that you are now looking for when is the

1145
01:01:48,800 --> 01:01:50,920
Speaker 2: day or the two days within that six day window

1146
01:01:50,960 --> 01:01:53,160
Speaker 2: when I've got the right wind and I've got a

1147
01:01:53,200 --> 01:01:56,080
Speaker 2: slightly more advantageous weather system something like that.

1148
01:01:57,920 --> 01:02:00,720
Speaker 3: The biggest thing that's going to make a change that

1149
01:02:00,800 --> 01:02:07,520
Speaker 3: pattern is human intrusion, hunting pressure. You know, somebody there's

1150
01:02:07,560 --> 01:02:14,000
Speaker 3: some form of human intrusion within that close proximity that's

1151
01:02:14,040 --> 01:02:16,880
Speaker 3: going to cause him to vacate that area. That's the

1152
01:02:16,880 --> 01:02:20,240
Speaker 3: biggest factor that's going to cause him to switch that

1153
01:02:20,320 --> 01:02:21,120
Speaker 3: annual pattern.

1154
01:02:22,680 --> 01:02:28,240
Speaker 2: Another annual pattern. Thought the kenmin I have hunted deer

1155
01:02:29,800 --> 01:02:32,080
Speaker 2: on an annual and thought about their annual patterns, but

1156
01:02:32,200 --> 01:02:35,440
Speaker 2: then thought about what's the impact of the crop rotation

1157
01:02:35,560 --> 01:02:37,880
Speaker 2: on them. So let's say, like I'm hunting, like I'll

1158
01:02:37,880 --> 01:02:39,600
Speaker 2: give you perfect sample. I'm hunting a deer this year.

1159
01:02:39,600 --> 01:02:40,920
Speaker 2: He's a five and a half year old buck. He's

1160
01:02:40,960 --> 01:02:43,040
Speaker 2: the oldest buck in this area that I can hunt,

1161
01:02:44,680 --> 01:02:46,960
Speaker 2: and so I have I have four years of data

1162
01:02:47,000 --> 01:02:49,600
Speaker 2: from this deer. I've noticed when he was two, so

1163
01:02:49,640 --> 01:02:51,280
Speaker 2: I've kept track of him since he was two. He's

1164
01:02:51,280 --> 01:02:53,880
Speaker 2: not five, and I'm looking at what he did last year,

1165
01:02:54,760 --> 01:02:56,160
Speaker 2: and I'm looking at what he did as a three

1166
01:02:56,240 --> 01:02:58,200
Speaker 2: year old. I'm thinking to myself, well, what he did

1167
01:02:58,320 --> 01:03:01,600
Speaker 2: last year is probably value in a lot of ways,

1168
01:03:01,600 --> 01:03:03,479
Speaker 2: because he was four last year. He's five. Now he's

1169
01:03:03,880 --> 01:03:06,000
Speaker 2: you know, was kind of mature last year, so that

1170
01:03:06,120 --> 01:03:09,439
Speaker 2: kind of behavior patterns are probably similar. On the flip side,

1171
01:03:09,480 --> 01:03:11,720
Speaker 2: it's a cornier this year, and it was a corner

1172
01:03:11,760 --> 01:03:13,040
Speaker 2: when he was a three and a half year old.

1173
01:03:13,360 --> 01:03:15,640
Speaker 2: So do I give more weight to what he did

1174
01:03:15,720 --> 01:03:17,600
Speaker 2: as a three year old, even though he was a

1175
01:03:17,600 --> 01:03:19,120
Speaker 2: crazy three year old, but at the same time that

1176
01:03:19,160 --> 01:03:21,760
Speaker 2: was the year I had corn, Or do I pay

1177
01:03:21,760 --> 01:03:24,000
Speaker 2: attention more to what he did last year because he

1178
01:03:24,080 --> 01:03:26,960
Speaker 2: was a four year old. He's smarter, but it was beans.

1179
01:03:27,960 --> 01:03:30,040
Speaker 2: What would you think about that situation?

1180
01:03:32,080 --> 01:03:36,200
Speaker 3: Well, you know, I live in an area where there's

1181
01:03:36,240 --> 01:03:43,240
Speaker 3: agriculture everywhere, so the crop rotation and I've actually tried

1182
01:03:43,280 --> 01:03:48,400
Speaker 3: to note crop rotation on as I'm putting together annual

1183
01:03:48,440 --> 01:03:51,520
Speaker 3: patterns and things to see if that affected at all,

1184
01:03:51,880 --> 01:03:54,200
Speaker 3: and I have not seen it here. Because let's say

1185
01:03:54,200 --> 01:03:56,919
Speaker 3: a buck is key and n on soy beans and

1186
01:03:57,720 --> 01:04:00,680
Speaker 3: this particular field is corn this year instead of beans. Well,

1187
01:04:00,680 --> 01:04:02,640
Speaker 3: there is where I'm at, there's going to be a

1188
01:04:02,680 --> 01:04:05,760
Speaker 3: soybean field in close proximity. There's just so much agg

1189
01:04:05,840 --> 01:04:08,920
Speaker 3: around me. If I was in a different type of terrain,

1190
01:04:11,400 --> 01:04:15,080
Speaker 3: then it would probably have a much bigger impact. And

1191
01:04:15,200 --> 01:04:18,360
Speaker 3: that's one thing I've really noticed about that there's some

1192
01:04:19,080 --> 01:04:22,080
Speaker 3: you know, a lot of deer hunters I really respect,

1193
01:04:23,760 --> 01:04:28,040
Speaker 3: big name deer hunters, that their opinions on certain things

1194
01:04:28,520 --> 01:04:31,800
Speaker 3: differ from my own. And as I've really looked at that,

1195
01:04:31,840 --> 01:04:34,880
Speaker 3: because I know these guys are killing giants too, and

1196
01:04:35,000 --> 01:04:39,600
Speaker 3: they're doing it consistently, and but but yet their opinions

1197
01:04:39,640 --> 01:04:41,760
Speaker 3: on certain things are like one hundred and eighty degrees

1198
01:04:41,840 --> 01:04:45,320
Speaker 3: different than mine. And I think doctor Strickland really opened

1199
01:04:45,320 --> 01:04:47,240
Speaker 3: my eyes on this because he comes from the South.

1200
01:04:47,280 --> 01:04:50,160
Speaker 3: You know, his region is totally different than mine, and

1201
01:04:51,000 --> 01:04:53,960
Speaker 3: he opened my eyes to the I think it's a

1202
01:04:54,040 --> 01:04:59,280
Speaker 3: fact even that deer habits changed from region to region

1203
01:04:59,520 --> 01:05:02,400
Speaker 3: and works for me in the Midwest and the heavy

1204
01:05:02,440 --> 01:05:06,880
Speaker 3: agriculture region, you know, it might not work near as

1205
01:05:06,920 --> 01:05:12,240
Speaker 3: well for say someone like Dan Infault, who's holding who

1206
01:05:12,280 --> 01:05:14,600
Speaker 3: I have a lot of respect for. I read his stuff,

1207
01:05:14,600 --> 01:05:17,680
Speaker 3: and I mean, you can just tell when you get

1208
01:05:17,720 --> 01:05:22,600
Speaker 3: to a certain point and another deer hunter puts something out.

1209
01:05:23,360 --> 01:05:25,439
Speaker 3: There's a certain point where you just know this guy

1210
01:05:25,520 --> 01:05:28,480
Speaker 3: is the real deal. Dan Infault is the real deal,

1211
01:05:28,520 --> 01:05:31,560
Speaker 3: but he hunts a totally different type of terrain than

1212
01:05:31,600 --> 01:05:34,959
Speaker 3: I do, and so while his opinion on in mine

1213
01:05:35,000 --> 01:05:38,480
Speaker 3: on certain things may vary, I think it's regional. I

1214
01:05:38,480 --> 01:05:40,400
Speaker 3: don't think it's one of us is right and one

1215
01:05:40,440 --> 01:05:44,080
Speaker 3: of us is wrong. I think it's the difference, is

1216
01:05:44,120 --> 01:05:46,480
Speaker 3: the difference in regions or the type of terrain that

1217
01:05:46,520 --> 01:05:50,080
Speaker 3: we're hunting. And I just see that with a lot

1218
01:05:50,120 --> 01:05:53,240
Speaker 3: of different guys that I respect that are dropping giants,

1219
01:05:53,720 --> 01:05:56,200
Speaker 3: but yet we don't align one hundred percent on some

1220
01:05:56,240 --> 01:05:59,360
Speaker 3: certain things. And I think it's regional differences. And I

1221
01:05:59,360 --> 01:06:03,280
Speaker 3: think as hunters anybody listen to this podcast, you need

1222
01:06:03,320 --> 01:06:09,400
Speaker 3: to really take that into consideration and not think that

1223
01:06:09,440 --> 01:06:12,240
Speaker 3: this guy is wrong or this guy's right. It's that

1224
01:06:12,800 --> 01:06:14,960
Speaker 3: this guy is right for his region. This guy is

1225
01:06:15,080 --> 01:06:16,040
Speaker 3: right for his region.

1226
01:06:16,640 --> 01:06:19,560
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, that's certainly one thing I've seen too, Like,

1227
01:06:19,600 --> 01:06:21,880
Speaker 2: over the years of doing this podcast, talk to so

1228
01:06:21,960 --> 01:06:26,240
Speaker 2: many different people that are consistently successful on big old bucks,

1229
01:06:26,480 --> 01:06:30,160
Speaker 2: and there are so many differences between them. There's just

1230
01:06:30,400 --> 01:06:32,440
Speaker 2: like you said, there's so many regional differences, and then

1231
01:06:32,480 --> 01:06:35,520
Speaker 2: also just styles, right, Like one thing might work for

1232
01:06:35,560 --> 01:06:38,120
Speaker 2: a person because they're a certain way, or their properties

1233
01:06:38,160 --> 01:06:40,880
Speaker 2: that they hunt are a certain way. You know, there's

1234
01:06:40,920 --> 01:06:44,440
Speaker 2: just so many different circumstantial factors that can make one

1235
01:06:44,480 --> 01:06:45,960
Speaker 2: thing work in a certain spot and not work in

1236
01:06:46,000 --> 01:06:48,760
Speaker 2: the other, or personality traits in the hunter themselves. So

1237
01:06:49,400 --> 01:06:51,320
Speaker 2: that's a great point to bring up that a lot

1238
01:06:51,360 --> 01:06:52,880
Speaker 2: of this has to be kind of passed through a

1239
01:06:52,880 --> 01:06:56,480
Speaker 2: filter of what's right for your area, what's right for you,

1240
01:06:56,600 --> 01:06:59,080
Speaker 2: what's right for your personal goals, what's right for your

1241
01:06:59,120 --> 01:07:01,160
Speaker 2: available time, all that kind of stuff.

1242
01:07:02,600 --> 01:07:05,280
Speaker 3: And another perfect example is Bobby Worthington. You know, he

1243
01:07:05,360 --> 01:07:08,160
Speaker 3: hunts the mountains of East Tennessee totally different than what

1244
01:07:08,240 --> 01:07:13,800
Speaker 3: I'm hunting Central Illinois, and him and I absolutely have

1245
01:07:14,000 --> 01:07:17,680
Speaker 3: opposite approaches to chasing giant box. I mean, he's way

1246
01:07:17,720 --> 01:07:20,600
Speaker 3: more aggressive. He doesn't have a choice. He's going to

1247
01:07:20,640 --> 01:07:23,200
Speaker 3: be in the deep timber because everywhere he goes it's

1248
01:07:23,240 --> 01:07:26,560
Speaker 3: the deep timber. From my perspective, where I'm out on

1249
01:07:26,600 --> 01:07:28,960
Speaker 3: the edges, I'm giving the deer the cover and I'm

1250
01:07:29,000 --> 01:07:31,880
Speaker 3: sitting out on the edge. Bobby's in the cover and

1251
01:07:31,960 --> 01:07:35,360
Speaker 3: you can't argue with his success. So yeah, there's a

1252
01:07:35,400 --> 01:07:39,200
Speaker 3: lot of good hunters approaching things from different angles, but

1253
01:07:39,200 --> 01:07:42,200
Speaker 3: they're they're the big thing is they're hunting different regions

1254
01:07:42,240 --> 01:07:45,000
Speaker 3: of the country. I mean, I think southern Iowa, you know,

1255
01:07:45,280 --> 01:07:49,120
Speaker 3: the hotbed if you will, of giant white tails. The

1256
01:07:49,200 --> 01:07:52,360
Speaker 3: approach that those guys are using there is totally different

1257
01:07:52,440 --> 01:07:55,880
Speaker 3: than my management approach where I'm at in central Illinois,

1258
01:07:55,880 --> 01:07:57,280
Speaker 3: where it's not heavily managed.

1259
01:07:58,400 --> 01:08:02,160
Speaker 2: Yeah. So, speaking of things that hunters like to debate

1260
01:08:02,760 --> 01:08:07,200
Speaker 2: or differ on, maybe there's all sorts of different theories

1261
01:08:07,840 --> 01:08:12,280
Speaker 2: and now even apps and tools that try to predict

1262
01:08:12,520 --> 01:08:15,280
Speaker 2: what kind of conditions will get deer to move more

1263
01:08:15,320 --> 01:08:19,240
Speaker 2: often or get a buck daylight, whatever it is. So

1264
01:08:20,200 --> 01:08:23,240
Speaker 2: I want to remove all the dose out of the equation.

1265
01:08:23,360 --> 01:08:25,559
Speaker 2: I want to remove all our one and a half

1266
01:08:25,600 --> 01:08:26,880
Speaker 2: year olds and two and a half year olds and

1267
01:08:26,920 --> 01:08:28,360
Speaker 2: three and a half year olds and maybe four and

1268
01:08:28,400 --> 01:08:32,000
Speaker 2: a half year olds. When we look at things like temperature,

1269
01:08:32,120 --> 01:08:37,840
Speaker 2: wind speed, barometric pressure, anything related to the moon, cold fronts, precipitation,

1270
01:08:38,040 --> 01:08:40,839
Speaker 2: anything like that, is there any one of those things

1271
01:08:41,080 --> 01:08:44,479
Speaker 2: that stands out to you as really making a difference

1272
01:08:44,520 --> 01:08:47,839
Speaker 2: for those old old bucks? Like, what is there anything

1273
01:08:47,840 --> 01:08:50,760
Speaker 2: that in your mind truly does make a difference when

1274
01:08:50,760 --> 01:08:53,040
Speaker 2: you're hunting a six or seven year old buck that

1275
01:08:53,160 --> 01:08:55,519
Speaker 2: when you see that coming in the forecast or whatever

1276
01:08:55,560 --> 01:08:57,840
Speaker 2: it is, you think to yourself, Okay, yeah, this is

1277
01:08:57,840 --> 01:08:59,520
Speaker 2: one of those special opportunities.

1278
01:09:01,439 --> 01:09:04,800
Speaker 3: Well, I think there's two things. First of all, the rut.

1279
01:09:04,880 --> 01:09:07,519
Speaker 3: The rut's going to have those big bucks moving more

1280
01:09:07,520 --> 01:09:11,040
Speaker 3: than they typically would in daylight. The other thing is

1281
01:09:11,120 --> 01:09:13,880
Speaker 3: really huge, and I think you know, when I wrote

1282
01:09:13,880 --> 01:09:17,880
Speaker 3: my first book, I kind of brushed off the late season.

1283
01:09:17,880 --> 01:09:20,880
Speaker 3: There's the late seasons of time where it's all about

1284
01:09:21,840 --> 01:09:24,559
Speaker 3: luck and the property you have access to and this

1285
01:09:24,640 --> 01:09:27,240
Speaker 3: and that, and the property you have access to is

1286
01:09:27,320 --> 01:09:30,680
Speaker 3: right to some degree. But in the late season, if

1287
01:09:30,720 --> 01:09:36,240
Speaker 3: you can get brutal cold weather conditions, snow helps, but

1288
01:09:36,600 --> 01:09:40,439
Speaker 3: it needs to be cold. There's no such thing as

1289
01:09:40,439 --> 01:09:45,479
Speaker 3: a nocturnal buck. When it gets zero. Those bucks have

1290
01:09:45,560 --> 01:09:49,040
Speaker 3: to consume a lot of calories to stay alive. And

1291
01:09:49,080 --> 01:09:51,719
Speaker 3: they're going to be on their feet in daylight every afternoon.

1292
01:09:51,760 --> 01:09:55,200
Speaker 3: They're getting up and they're headed to food somewhere. And

1293
01:09:55,280 --> 01:09:57,200
Speaker 3: if you happen to be on the right food source,

1294
01:09:57,600 --> 01:10:00,280
Speaker 3: on the right path leading to the food source, you're

1295
01:10:00,320 --> 01:10:02,760
Speaker 3: going to see deer and the mature buck is going

1296
01:10:02,800 --> 01:10:05,439
Speaker 3: to be coming along right with the rest of them. That,

1297
01:10:05,520 --> 01:10:09,360
Speaker 3: in my opinion, the very very best time to kill

1298
01:10:09,360 --> 01:10:12,599
Speaker 3: a mature buck on purpose is during the late season

1299
01:10:12,760 --> 01:10:16,240
Speaker 3: during a brutal cold spell. And if you look at Iowa,

1300
01:10:16,360 --> 01:10:19,040
Speaker 3: look at that late Mussloder season they have at Iowa,

1301
01:10:19,040 --> 01:10:23,080
Speaker 3: and how many giants are killed over soybean fields or

1302
01:10:23,080 --> 01:10:26,600
Speaker 3: whatever in that late Mussloder season. Those bucks are not

1303
01:10:26,800 --> 01:10:29,240
Speaker 3: no longer nocturnal. They have to be on their feet

1304
01:10:29,280 --> 01:10:32,360
Speaker 3: feeding and that's when they become the most vulnerable.

1305
01:10:32,960 --> 01:10:37,880
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, hard to argue with that. Speaking of the

1306
01:10:38,000 --> 01:10:41,800
Speaker 2: rut you mentioned a second ago, what have you seen

1307
01:10:41,840 --> 01:10:44,360
Speaker 2: as far as how these really old deer partaking the rut?

1308
01:10:45,120 --> 01:10:46,920
Speaker 2: I know they're doing a lot of things differently than

1309
01:10:46,920 --> 01:10:49,519
Speaker 2: a three year old. What have you seen unique to that,

1310
01:10:49,640 --> 01:10:53,320
Speaker 2: like top aged class of buck. Are they getting active

1311
01:10:53,560 --> 01:10:56,800
Speaker 2: earlier later, do they locked down for a longer or

1312
01:10:56,800 --> 01:10:59,679
Speaker 2: shorter period? Do they do anything unique in your.

1313
01:11:01,760 --> 01:11:05,360
Speaker 3: So last season, I had a really unique circumstance and

1314
01:11:05,400 --> 01:11:08,719
Speaker 3: something I'd never seen before. And I had a buck

1315
01:11:08,760 --> 01:11:11,400
Speaker 3: on my farm that I know was nine and a

1316
01:11:11,439 --> 01:11:13,800
Speaker 3: half years old. I'd followed him since he was three

1317
01:11:13,840 --> 01:11:19,280
Speaker 3: and a half and this buck has been here every

1318
01:11:19,360 --> 01:11:24,400
Speaker 3: fall during the two falls before when he was seven

1319
01:11:24,479 --> 01:11:28,120
Speaker 3: years old, and eight years old, he forgot the rut.

1320
01:11:28,560 --> 01:11:31,679
Speaker 3: He did not I mean, he did not move until

1321
01:11:31,720 --> 01:11:35,120
Speaker 3: it was dark. He would just go to feed. Never

1322
01:11:35,200 --> 01:11:38,920
Speaker 3: seen him at a scrape anything like that. Seven eight,

1323
01:11:39,120 --> 01:11:41,439
Speaker 3: he forgets about the rut. Last year he's nine and

1324
01:11:41,439 --> 01:11:43,840
Speaker 3: a half years old. And at nine and a half

1325
01:11:43,960 --> 01:11:46,639
Speaker 3: years old, he's running around like a three year old,

1326
01:11:47,280 --> 01:11:52,160
Speaker 3: chasing does grunting, working scrapes. And I could have killed

1327
01:11:52,200 --> 01:11:53,679
Speaker 3: him two or three times, real easy.

1328
01:11:53,760 --> 01:11:53,880
Speaker 2: Now.

1329
01:11:53,920 --> 01:11:56,880
Speaker 3: He actually ended up going off my property and getting

1330
01:11:56,920 --> 01:11:59,120
Speaker 3: and I got a picture of him as he's leaving.

1331
01:12:00,120 --> 01:12:02,720
Speaker 3: Within thirty minutes of him walking off the property, he

1332
01:12:02,760 --> 01:12:07,479
Speaker 3: got shot. He killed. So you know, he came back

1333
01:12:07,560 --> 01:12:10,240
Speaker 3: and I'd never seen anything like it. At nine years old,

1334
01:12:11,240 --> 01:12:14,439
Speaker 3: he started acting like a three year old again. But

1335
01:12:14,560 --> 01:12:17,160
Speaker 3: at seven and eight he didn't hardly participate in the

1336
01:12:17,240 --> 01:12:21,599
Speaker 3: rut that I seen whatsoever, and and almost a zero

1337
01:12:21,840 --> 01:12:27,679
Speaker 3: daylight movement. He became like a nocturnal recluse. He basically

1338
01:12:27,720 --> 01:12:30,000
Speaker 3: avoided the rest of the deer herd. He would bed

1339
01:12:30,080 --> 01:12:33,400
Speaker 3: by himself, he would feed by himself, and then boom,

1340
01:12:33,439 --> 01:12:35,679
Speaker 3: at nine years old, here he comes, you know, acting

1341
01:12:35,720 --> 01:12:39,040
Speaker 3: like a teenager again. And wow, I guess it's like

1342
01:12:39,320 --> 01:12:41,719
Speaker 3: the old men, you know, my age, in their sixties

1343
01:12:41,720 --> 01:12:43,320
Speaker 3: and they go out and they buy a new corvette

1344
01:12:43,320 --> 01:12:46,320
Speaker 3: and they start chasing young girls or something. But yeah,

1345
01:12:46,360 --> 01:12:48,320
Speaker 3: it's a great I've never seen that before.

1346
01:12:48,720 --> 01:12:52,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's a great analogy. So you're so if that's unusual,

1347
01:12:52,120 --> 01:12:55,040
Speaker 2: then would you say the usual behavior seeing from a

1348
01:12:55,080 --> 01:12:56,720
Speaker 2: six or seven or eight year old buck is that

1349
01:12:56,760 --> 01:13:00,960
Speaker 2: they do participate, but at some point they trend down

1350
01:13:01,000 --> 01:13:03,160
Speaker 2: a little bit or or what is it?

1351
01:13:04,120 --> 01:13:06,760
Speaker 3: Well, it comes down to the individual buck. I'd never

1352
01:13:06,800 --> 01:13:10,280
Speaker 3: seen one totally become a recluse like he did at

1353
01:13:10,280 --> 01:13:14,880
Speaker 3: seven and eight. I think it slowly tapers off. But

1354
01:13:15,040 --> 01:13:17,280
Speaker 3: you know, I've got the other buck here that I

1355
01:13:17,360 --> 01:13:21,439
Speaker 3: told you about that comes, you know in the late

1356
01:13:21,520 --> 01:13:24,200
Speaker 3: season that's probably I don't know, eight or nine years old. Now,

1357
01:13:24,240 --> 01:13:26,360
Speaker 3: i'd have to go back and look at some history,

1358
01:13:26,400 --> 01:13:30,439
Speaker 3: but you know he's chasing those when he comes in

1359
01:13:30,479 --> 01:13:34,640
Speaker 3: the late season, he's still chasing those around. And if

1360
01:13:34,720 --> 01:13:36,439
Speaker 3: other buck, if there happens to be a doe fawn

1361
01:13:36,520 --> 01:13:38,519
Speaker 3: coming in heat or whatever and bucks are chasing around,

1362
01:13:38,560 --> 01:13:42,480
Speaker 3: he'll join right in the chase. So I think it's individual.

1363
01:13:44,840 --> 01:13:47,719
Speaker 3: The nine and a half year old I described earlier.

1364
01:13:48,800 --> 01:13:51,360
Speaker 3: That's a very unique situation. I've never seen anything like

1365
01:13:51,400 --> 01:13:53,679
Speaker 3: that before, you know, with an older buck.

1366
01:13:54,120 --> 01:13:59,200
Speaker 2: Yeah, So it seems if there's any theme through a

1367
01:13:59,240 --> 01:14:02,439
Speaker 2: lot of this talking about maybe the very most you

1368
01:14:02,520 --> 01:14:04,439
Speaker 2: correct me if I'm wrong here, but maybe one of

1369
01:14:04,479 --> 01:14:06,599
Speaker 2: the very most important things that we need to keep

1370
01:14:06,600 --> 01:14:09,960
Speaker 2: in mind when it comes to understanding and targeting, Like

1371
01:14:10,000 --> 01:14:13,320
Speaker 2: one of these old old deer is just the number one.

1372
01:14:13,320 --> 01:14:16,960
Speaker 2: They're all different, like at that point especially, they really

1373
01:14:17,000 --> 01:14:20,400
Speaker 2: develop personalities. They all have those unique traits. So probably

1374
01:14:20,439 --> 01:14:22,280
Speaker 2: the best thing we can do if we're at the

1375
01:14:22,280 --> 01:14:23,960
Speaker 2: point where we want to hunt a deer like that

1376
01:14:24,640 --> 01:14:28,599
Speaker 2: is just pay super close to attention to all those

1377
01:14:28,720 --> 01:14:32,240
Speaker 2: unique factors with each unique buck, Like, figure out that personality,

1378
01:14:32,280 --> 01:14:35,519
Speaker 2: do your homework, do your studying, think about it right.

1379
01:14:37,280 --> 01:14:40,760
Speaker 3: Yeah, And that's where trail cameras are huge. I mean,

1380
01:14:41,479 --> 01:14:46,600
Speaker 3: having a lot of trail cameras out helps you to

1381
01:14:47,320 --> 01:14:50,080
Speaker 3: know where that buck is at and what he's doing

1382
01:14:50,160 --> 01:14:53,720
Speaker 3: at various times of the season. And you do that

1383
01:14:53,760 --> 01:14:56,320
Speaker 3: with the same buck for three seasons, you know you've

1384
01:14:56,320 --> 01:14:58,080
Speaker 3: got a pretty good idea what he's going to be

1385
01:14:58,120 --> 01:15:01,240
Speaker 3: doing on the fourth season. That's where I'm sitting with babe.

1386
01:15:01,240 --> 01:15:03,000
Speaker 3: You know, I know he's going to be hitting those

1387
01:15:03,000 --> 01:15:05,840
Speaker 3: fruit trees. And he may not hit him every afternoon

1388
01:15:05,880 --> 01:15:09,160
Speaker 3: before dark. But if I hunt that, if I hunt

1389
01:15:09,160 --> 01:15:12,120
Speaker 3: that blind every time, the conditions are good for me

1390
01:15:12,200 --> 01:15:16,439
Speaker 3: to slip in undetected and slip out undetected. Ah, I'm

1391
01:15:16,439 --> 01:15:17,720
Speaker 3: going to get a crack at him there.

1392
01:15:18,160 --> 01:15:24,360
Speaker 2: Yeah. So, speaking of these these personalities and these old bucks,

1393
01:15:25,320 --> 01:15:27,559
Speaker 2: if you were to think back over all your years,

1394
01:15:27,840 --> 01:15:30,640
Speaker 2: you've hunted a lot of these big old deer. Is

1395
01:15:30,640 --> 01:15:34,760
Speaker 2: there any one super mature buck that stands out in

1396
01:15:34,840 --> 01:15:38,800
Speaker 2: your mind as having taught you the most important lesson?

1397
01:15:38,880 --> 01:15:40,840
Speaker 2: Is there any buck that taught you more than any

1398
01:15:40,840 --> 01:15:43,880
Speaker 2: other or that right now you can think back on say, oh, yeah,

1399
01:15:44,000 --> 01:15:45,760
Speaker 2: either a buck you got or buck you didn't get.

1400
01:15:45,800 --> 01:15:47,200
Speaker 2: I'm not sure which is going to be for you.

1401
01:15:47,280 --> 01:15:49,599
Speaker 2: But is there one that stands out for you as

1402
01:15:49,920 --> 01:15:53,840
Speaker 2: having really drove home something really really important for you?

1403
01:15:54,120 --> 01:15:56,639
Speaker 2: And if so, can you share with us that story

1404
01:15:56,880 --> 01:15:58,120
Speaker 2: and what that lesson was?

1405
01:15:59,439 --> 01:16:02,760
Speaker 3: Yeah? So I don't even have to think twice about this.

1406
01:16:02,960 --> 01:16:06,040
Speaker 3: It would be the second buck I shot back in

1407
01:16:06,080 --> 01:16:10,360
Speaker 3: twenty seventeen. Trump. You know, I came on your podcast

1408
01:16:10,400 --> 01:16:12,320
Speaker 3: in the summer, I said, I'm going to kill Smokey

1409
01:16:13,000 --> 01:16:15,920
Speaker 3: killed him. We got on another podcast a day or

1410
01:16:15,920 --> 01:16:20,400
Speaker 3: so later. I killed Trump. Yep. Trump's personality was so

1411
01:16:20,600 --> 01:16:23,479
Speaker 3: different than any other mature buck I'd ever chased. There

1412
01:16:23,520 --> 01:16:28,800
Speaker 3: was absolutely no pattern whatsoever to that deer. He would

1413
01:16:28,840 --> 01:16:32,200
Speaker 3: show up here, there, and everywhere. And if you got

1414
01:16:32,200 --> 01:16:34,360
Speaker 3: his picture here one day, you was not getting his

1415
01:16:34,400 --> 01:16:37,639
Speaker 3: picture there the next day or the day after. He

1416
01:16:37,720 --> 01:16:40,439
Speaker 3: was here. He was there, He was there, and it

1417
01:16:40,560 --> 01:16:44,760
Speaker 3: was just one hundred percent random. And the year I

1418
01:16:44,760 --> 01:16:46,639
Speaker 3: shot him, he was seven and a half years old.

1419
01:16:47,280 --> 01:16:49,240
Speaker 3: And the day I shot him was the first time

1420
01:16:49,280 --> 01:16:51,800
Speaker 3: I ever laid eyes on that deer. Wow, I'd only

1421
01:16:51,800 --> 01:16:56,360
Speaker 3: seen him in trail camera pictures. And what he taught

1422
01:16:56,400 --> 01:16:59,799
Speaker 3: me was that I totally had to change my approach

1423
01:17:00,280 --> 01:17:05,360
Speaker 3: that deer, because as his rack blew up the year before,

1424
01:17:05,600 --> 01:17:11,120
Speaker 3: so I started really I was trying to shoot him

1425
01:17:11,120 --> 01:17:15,960
Speaker 3: the year before, actually, and I was expanding my range

1426
01:17:15,960 --> 01:17:18,560
Speaker 3: where I could hunt by gaining access or permission to

1427
01:17:18,640 --> 01:17:21,280
Speaker 3: hunt properties where I thought he might be. And I

1428
01:17:21,320 --> 01:17:24,000
Speaker 3: was putting trail cameras in places I'd never had him before.

1429
01:17:24,040 --> 01:17:26,799
Speaker 3: And yeah, I'd get his trail camera on this property

1430
01:17:26,840 --> 01:17:32,000
Speaker 3: and that property and this property, all random and as

1431
01:17:32,040 --> 01:17:34,719
Speaker 3: well as the place where i'd originally got his picture.

1432
01:17:34,760 --> 01:17:38,120
Speaker 3: And boys, I'm sitting there that summer trying to think

1433
01:17:38,160 --> 01:17:39,800
Speaker 3: of how am I going to get Trump. I've never

1434
01:17:39,840 --> 01:17:42,000
Speaker 3: lit eyes on this buck yet, and most of the

1435
01:17:42,000 --> 01:17:44,960
Speaker 3: bucks I shoot, I've seen him before when they were younger,

1436
01:17:44,960 --> 01:17:49,000
Speaker 3: but Trump is one I'd never seen, you know, firsthand before,

1437
01:17:50,840 --> 01:17:54,360
Speaker 3: and typically I had to totally change my approach to

1438
01:17:54,439 --> 01:17:56,519
Speaker 3: hunt that buck. And I think that's the lesson here,

1439
01:17:57,200 --> 01:18:02,160
Speaker 3: is to be open to, you know, throwing everything out

1440
01:18:02,200 --> 01:18:05,800
Speaker 3: the window and doing something that you would never typically do.

1441
01:18:05,880 --> 01:18:08,799
Speaker 3: And that's what I did with him, is I hunted.

1442
01:18:09,280 --> 01:18:12,120
Speaker 3: I looked at all those properties where I had his pictures,

1443
01:18:12,840 --> 01:18:14,680
Speaker 3: and I thought, well, I could hunt him here and

1444
01:18:15,080 --> 01:18:16,960
Speaker 3: I could hunt him there, and I had stands on

1445
01:18:17,000 --> 01:18:21,679
Speaker 3: all those properties, and I thought, if I jump around

1446
01:18:21,680 --> 01:18:25,120
Speaker 3: from one property to the next, I'm just going to

1447
01:18:25,160 --> 01:18:27,560
Speaker 3: be one step behind that bock, because I'm going to

1448
01:18:27,600 --> 01:18:29,760
Speaker 3: be there today and then two days later, I'm going

1449
01:18:29,800 --> 01:18:31,960
Speaker 3: to get his picture there. And I never get his

1450
01:18:32,040 --> 01:18:35,400
Speaker 3: picture anywhere two days in a row. So I thought,

1451
01:18:35,439 --> 01:18:39,040
Speaker 3: my best bet for this buck do something I never do.

1452
01:18:39,640 --> 01:18:42,080
Speaker 3: I'm just going to camp out. I had one property

1453
01:18:42,080 --> 01:18:44,519
Speaker 3: where I had three tree stands. It was a small property.

1454
01:18:45,360 --> 01:18:48,240
Speaker 3: I had three tree stands there for three different wind directions,

1455
01:18:48,880 --> 01:18:50,600
Speaker 3: and I thought, I'm going to camp out on this

1456
01:18:50,720 --> 01:18:54,040
Speaker 3: property until I kill him those three stands based on wind.

1457
01:18:54,680 --> 01:18:57,519
Speaker 3: And that's what I did. And I ended up shooting

1458
01:18:57,560 --> 01:18:59,760
Speaker 3: him on the tenth hunt. And he was the first

1459
01:19:00,240 --> 01:19:02,360
Speaker 3: that I seen. On all ten hunts. The first nine hunts,

1460
01:19:02,400 --> 01:19:04,760
Speaker 3: I did not see a single deer. But I kept

1461
01:19:04,760 --> 01:19:08,280
Speaker 3: at it because I knew he's there, He's coming through here.

1462
01:19:09,120 --> 01:19:11,639
Speaker 3: If I start jumping around, he's gonna show up here.

1463
01:19:11,680 --> 01:19:13,760
Speaker 3: I just need to stay here until he does show

1464
01:19:13,840 --> 01:19:16,920
Speaker 3: up here. Ye, And I've never done that with another buck,

1465
01:19:17,040 --> 01:19:21,480
Speaker 3: but uh, you know, his random personality just being everywhere

1466
01:19:22,040 --> 01:19:25,200
Speaker 3: with no pattern whatsoever, I knew I just better camp

1467
01:19:25,240 --> 01:19:28,479
Speaker 3: in one spot and just wait him out. And like

1468
01:19:28,560 --> 01:19:30,639
Speaker 3: I say, that's the only buck that I've ever hunted

1469
01:19:30,680 --> 01:19:32,719
Speaker 3: that way, and it ended up paying off.

1470
01:19:33,080 --> 01:19:36,559
Speaker 2: And yeah, that's that's such a great example. So to

1471
01:19:36,600 --> 01:19:40,479
Speaker 2: put a bow on this done. If we were to

1472
01:19:41,640 --> 01:19:44,400
Speaker 2: give you an opportunity to like have a stone tablet

1473
01:19:44,560 --> 01:19:48,840
Speaker 2: that you could etch your three commandments for hunting the

1474
01:19:48,920 --> 01:19:52,519
Speaker 2: super old buck. If you could write down those three

1475
01:19:52,640 --> 01:19:55,400
Speaker 2: most important rules that someone leaving today, if they remember

1476
01:19:55,439 --> 01:19:58,960
Speaker 2: nothing else, they have to remember these three things Don

1477
01:19:59,080 --> 01:20:02,800
Speaker 2: Higgins command for hunting old old dear. What would those

1478
01:20:02,840 --> 01:20:04,000
Speaker 2: three things be?

1479
01:20:05,920 --> 01:20:09,080
Speaker 3: Number one, every mature buck has a sanctuary. If you

1480
01:20:09,120 --> 01:20:10,760
Speaker 3: want to kill him, you got to find it. If

1481
01:20:10,800 --> 01:20:13,679
Speaker 3: you own property, you can create a sanctuary and bucks

1482
01:20:13,720 --> 01:20:16,720
Speaker 3: will use it, and that includes the older bucks in

1483
01:20:16,760 --> 01:20:19,880
Speaker 3: your area. Every mature buck has a sanctuary. That'd be

1484
01:20:19,960 --> 01:20:24,760
Speaker 3: number one. Number two, play the wind. Every mature buck

1485
01:20:24,880 --> 01:20:27,400
Speaker 3: uses the wind. They use the wind to the degree

1486
01:20:27,479 --> 01:20:29,719
Speaker 3: that or they use their nose to the same degree

1487
01:20:29,720 --> 01:20:34,000
Speaker 3: that we use our eyes. You got to play the wind.

1488
01:20:34,760 --> 01:20:39,080
Speaker 3: And number three would be that annual pattern. They've got

1489
01:20:39,120 --> 01:20:43,559
Speaker 3: an annual pattern. So find their sanctuary, play the wind,

1490
01:20:44,160 --> 01:20:45,679
Speaker 3: put together that annual pattern.

1491
01:20:46,520 --> 01:20:49,840
Speaker 2: All right, there we go. So here's here's my last

1492
01:20:49,880 --> 01:20:52,680
Speaker 2: thing for it down. I want to give you a

1493
01:20:52,800 --> 01:20:56,639
Speaker 2: chance to call your shot again. Do you feel confident

1494
01:20:56,760 --> 01:21:00,040
Speaker 2: enough in babe or any other scenario it could be

1495
01:21:00,120 --> 01:21:02,600
Speaker 2: with you or when your grandkids or someone else. Do

1496
01:21:02,600 --> 01:21:05,160
Speaker 2: you want to call a shot for us this year

1497
01:21:05,200 --> 01:21:07,800
Speaker 2: and in guarantee. Where as close as guarantee something happened

1498
01:21:07,800 --> 01:21:08,040
Speaker 2: in this.

1499
01:21:08,000 --> 01:21:13,040
Speaker 3: Fall, i'd think. Yeah. I mean, I'm not going to

1500
01:21:13,120 --> 01:21:17,240
Speaker 3: get specific down to the day, but I think Babe

1501
01:21:17,280 --> 01:21:21,320
Speaker 3: will be shot out of one or two stands in October.

1502
01:21:21,800 --> 01:21:24,960
Speaker 3: The fruit tree stand or blind that I described earlier,

1503
01:21:25,920 --> 01:21:29,840
Speaker 3: or there's another stand in a pinch point that I

1504
01:21:29,880 --> 01:21:34,160
Speaker 3: can hunt. It requires an easterly wind, which we rarely get.

1505
01:21:34,479 --> 01:21:37,200
Speaker 3: But he'll be killed on an afternoon hunt in October

1506
01:21:37,760 --> 01:21:40,000
Speaker 3: from either the blind in front of the fruit trees

1507
01:21:40,960 --> 01:21:45,639
Speaker 3: or another pinch point stand about one hundred and fifty

1508
01:21:45,680 --> 01:21:47,320
Speaker 3: yards away from that fruit tree stand.

1509
01:21:48,120 --> 01:21:51,160
Speaker 2: Awesome, Well, I would not want to be Babe this

1510
01:21:51,280 --> 01:21:54,639
Speaker 2: year because he's in trouble. I can tell you that

1511
01:21:54,760 --> 01:21:57,680
Speaker 2: I love it. I appreciate you sharing this down. This

1512
01:21:57,720 --> 01:21:59,200
Speaker 2: is fun. This is the kind of stuff that I

1513
01:21:59,240 --> 01:22:02,000
Speaker 2: geek out about, and you're one of my favorite people

1514
01:22:02,000 --> 01:22:03,719
Speaker 2: to geek out about it with. You've got a whole

1515
01:22:03,800 --> 01:22:05,840
Speaker 2: wealth information share, So thank you for that.

1516
01:22:06,680 --> 01:22:08,680
Speaker 3: Well, I appreciate you having me Mark. You know, you

1517
01:22:08,840 --> 01:22:12,840
Speaker 3: kind of opened the door to hunting podcast years ago.

1518
01:22:12,960 --> 01:22:16,240
Speaker 3: I think you had the very first hunting podcast, and

1519
01:22:16,280 --> 01:22:18,960
Speaker 3: now I think everybody that's ever shot. Two Bucks has

1520
01:22:19,000 --> 01:22:20,000
Speaker 3: got a podcast.

1521
01:22:20,520 --> 01:22:21,080
Speaker 2: That's true.

1522
01:22:21,080 --> 01:22:23,280
Speaker 3: Well, you've kind of been a pioneer in the whole industry,

1523
01:22:23,320 --> 01:22:25,000
Speaker 3: at least the podcast. It's the industry.

1524
01:22:25,320 --> 01:22:27,519
Speaker 2: It's been wild to see that growth and I've been

1525
01:22:27,560 --> 01:22:31,840
Speaker 2: fortunate that's that's worked out for me. But speaking of that, don,

1526
01:22:31,920 --> 01:22:34,519
Speaker 2: I did want to get give you an opportunity to

1527
01:22:34,600 --> 01:22:37,479
Speaker 2: tell folks about the whole slew of different things you've

1528
01:22:37,479 --> 01:22:38,920
Speaker 2: got going on these days. You've got a lot of

1529
01:22:38,960 --> 01:22:42,120
Speaker 2: great resources and content. Can you give people a rundown

1530
01:22:42,120 --> 01:22:43,920
Speaker 2: of what they can find and where they can find it.

1531
01:22:45,600 --> 01:22:49,639
Speaker 3: Yeah, So I've got the website. It's a subscription based

1532
01:22:49,640 --> 01:22:52,400
Speaker 3: website for videos, but there's a lot of free videos

1533
01:22:52,439 --> 01:22:57,240
Speaker 3: on there as well, called the whitetailmaster Academy dot com.

1534
01:22:57,800 --> 01:22:59,439
Speaker 3: You can go there and check out the videos and

1535
01:22:59,439 --> 01:23:01,280
Speaker 3: if you like what you see, you can subscribe. But

1536
01:23:01,320 --> 01:23:04,880
Speaker 3: we do a lot of just everything land management. You know,

1537
01:23:05,080 --> 01:23:08,679
Speaker 3: I'm a consultant, So when I go on these consulting visits,

1538
01:23:08,680 --> 01:23:13,000
Speaker 3: I take my video producer along and we feature different properties.

1539
01:23:13,040 --> 01:23:17,200
Speaker 3: We try to feature one property a month. Tree stand videos,

1540
01:23:17,240 --> 01:23:20,520
Speaker 3: my actual tree stands. We go there with my videographer

1541
01:23:20,560 --> 01:23:23,160
Speaker 3: and we film some videos there, but just a lot

1542
01:23:23,240 --> 01:23:25,920
Speaker 3: of different types of videos on that I got. The

1543
01:23:26,040 --> 01:23:30,559
Speaker 3: Chasing Giants podcasts, it basically is a little bit different

1544
01:23:30,560 --> 01:23:33,000
Speaker 3: than a lot of the other podcasts. Instead of having guests,

1545
01:23:33,600 --> 01:23:37,000
Speaker 3: we have the listeners submit questions and we read those

1546
01:23:37,120 --> 01:23:42,360
Speaker 3: questions and answer them on that podcast. Boy, what else

1547
01:23:42,439 --> 01:23:46,400
Speaker 3: the consulting that I mentioned. If you go to Higginsoutdoors

1548
01:23:46,479 --> 01:23:50,600
Speaker 3: dot com you can find just about everything there that

1549
01:23:50,920 --> 01:23:55,400
Speaker 3: I've got going. So that's probably easier than me sitting

1550
01:23:55,400 --> 01:23:57,639
Speaker 3: here for the next thirty minutes rattling on one thing

1551
01:23:57,680 --> 01:23:58,280
Speaker 3: after another.

1552
01:23:59,160 --> 01:24:02,480
Speaker 2: Yeah, well, I'll give a quick little plug for your masterclass.

1553
01:24:02,479 --> 01:24:04,439
Speaker 2: I subscribe to that and have been checking it out.

1554
01:24:04,479 --> 01:24:07,240
Speaker 2: And something that's really cool for people that listen today

1555
01:24:07,280 --> 01:24:11,120
Speaker 2: and heard you talking about Babe. You've been posting updates

1556
01:24:11,280 --> 01:24:14,599
Speaker 2: all throughout this year as you've tried to put together

1557
01:24:14,640 --> 01:24:16,519
Speaker 2: your plan for Babe and try to find him again

1558
01:24:16,560 --> 01:24:19,000
Speaker 2: and get pictures of him and figure all these different

1559
01:24:19,000 --> 01:24:21,160
Speaker 2: things out. I've really enjoyed that just getting to see

1560
01:24:21,280 --> 01:24:23,720
Speaker 2: these little like three four or five minute updates on Hey,

1561
01:24:23,720 --> 01:24:25,240
Speaker 2: today I'm doing this, or today I'm going to go

1562
01:24:25,240 --> 01:24:26,840
Speaker 2: out and try to get video of Babe or today,

1563
01:24:26,880 --> 01:24:29,679
Speaker 2: I'm setting this thing up or planting this food plot

1564
01:24:29,800 --> 01:24:31,840
Speaker 2: and getting to see that three hundred and sixty five

1565
01:24:32,000 --> 01:24:37,400
Speaker 2: kind of day process leading up to the season has

1566
01:24:37,439 --> 01:24:40,360
Speaker 2: been really fun, and I think it'll be extra fun

1567
01:24:40,760 --> 01:24:43,600
Speaker 2: when you make your prediction come true here in a

1568
01:24:43,640 --> 01:24:46,360
Speaker 2: matter of weeks. So that's definitely something to take a

1569
01:24:46,360 --> 01:24:48,400
Speaker 2: look at. So they're chasing two hundred series on there,

1570
01:24:48,400 --> 01:24:51,120
Speaker 2: I think is what you're calling it, and I got

1571
01:24:51,160 --> 01:24:52,280
Speaker 2: to kick out of that. It's pretty cool.

1572
01:24:53,200 --> 01:24:56,439
Speaker 3: Well, thank you, we'll see you know. I'm not going

1573
01:24:56,520 --> 01:24:59,880
Speaker 3: to chase Babe hard at all until after the use.

1574
01:25:00,240 --> 01:25:02,280
Speaker 3: I want to get my grandsons a first crack at

1575
01:25:02,360 --> 01:25:05,320
Speaker 3: him and hopefully one of them shoots him. But if not,

1576
01:25:06,360 --> 01:25:08,800
Speaker 3: after that U season ends, I'm going to be hitting

1577
01:25:08,840 --> 01:25:10,080
Speaker 3: it hard. Well.

1578
01:25:10,680 --> 01:25:12,280
Speaker 2: I wish you all luck in the world done. I

1579
01:25:12,280 --> 01:25:14,080
Speaker 2: know it doesn't take luck. I know it takes hard

1580
01:25:14,120 --> 01:25:15,759
Speaker 2: work and a good plan, which you know you've got.

1581
01:25:15,800 --> 01:25:18,480
Speaker 2: But I'll be sending luck your way downetheless.

1582
01:25:19,600 --> 01:25:21,320
Speaker 3: I appreciate it, Mark, thank you, and thank you for

1583
01:25:21,320 --> 01:25:22,439
Speaker 3: having me. It's always surprising.

1584
01:25:22,720 --> 01:25:28,559
Speaker 2: Yeah, I really enjoyed it. All right, that's our show today.

1585
01:25:28,880 --> 01:25:31,240
Speaker 2: I hope you enjoyed this one. I certainly did. It's

1586
01:25:31,280 --> 01:25:35,599
Speaker 2: got me fired up for this upcoming season. My Wisconsin hunt,

1587
01:25:35,640 --> 01:25:38,160
Speaker 2: as I just mentioned, is wrapping up, so by the

1588
01:25:38,200 --> 01:25:41,360
Speaker 2: time you're listening to this, that hunt's probably done. But

1589
01:25:41,479 --> 01:25:43,200
Speaker 2: Michigan is going to be taken off here in just

1590
01:25:43,280 --> 01:25:46,720
Speaker 2: about a week, and I'm over the moon for that

1591
01:25:46,760 --> 01:25:50,280
Speaker 2: to get started. So if you're out there already hunting,

1592
01:25:50,680 --> 01:25:52,320
Speaker 2: I'm wishing you all the best of luck. I hope

1593
01:25:52,320 --> 01:25:55,120
Speaker 2: you're having fun. I hope you're being safe. I hope

1594
01:25:55,160 --> 01:25:57,439
Speaker 2: you are taking the lessons you've learned over the years

1595
01:25:57,439 --> 01:26:00,000
Speaker 2: on this podcast and applying them to make your hunt

1596
01:26:00,040 --> 01:26:05,400
Speaker 2: it's more successful and enjoyable. And finally, I hope you

1597
01:26:05,479 --> 01:26:08,240
Speaker 2: will stay wired to hunt.