1 00:00:03,640 --> 00:00:07,960 Speaker 1: Hello Sunshine, Hey fam listen. We know the holidays can 2 00:00:08,000 --> 00:00:12,960 Speaker 1: be overwhelming. Family obligations, parties, gifts, It can feel like 3 00:00:13,160 --> 00:00:17,000 Speaker 1: a lot. So today we're taking a moment to pause 4 00:00:17,200 --> 00:00:19,400 Speaker 1: and think about how we can take care of ourselves. 5 00:00:19,800 --> 00:00:22,759 Speaker 1: Joining us today is mental health advocate and creator of 6 00:00:22,880 --> 00:00:24,079 Speaker 1: Diary of an Honest Mom. 7 00:00:24,480 --> 00:00:26,279 Speaker 2: You know her from her work on the Internet. It's 8 00:00:26,320 --> 00:00:26,960 Speaker 2: Libby Ward. 9 00:00:27,360 --> 00:00:30,320 Speaker 1: It's Thursday, November twenty First, I'm Simone Boyce. 10 00:00:30,840 --> 00:00:33,319 Speaker 3: I'm Danielle Robe and this is the bright Side from 11 00:00:33,360 --> 00:00:36,239 Speaker 3: Hello Sunshine, a daily show where we come together to 12 00:00:36,240 --> 00:00:40,479 Speaker 3: share women's stories, to laugh, learn and brighten your day. 13 00:00:42,200 --> 00:00:46,920 Speaker 3: We've had a ton of holiday conversations recently, some about 14 00:00:46,960 --> 00:00:50,000 Speaker 3: the spirit and the brightness of the holidays, and some 15 00:00:50,080 --> 00:00:53,159 Speaker 3: about how to stay organized through the chaos, even how 16 00:00:53,159 --> 00:00:55,400 Speaker 3: to throw a great party. But I do think one 17 00:00:55,440 --> 00:00:58,880 Speaker 3: of the hardest parts of the holidays can be to 18 00:00:59,040 --> 00:01:03,400 Speaker 3: find joy all of the planning and potential stress and 19 00:01:03,480 --> 00:01:05,600 Speaker 3: potential chaos that the holidays can bring. 20 00:01:05,880 --> 00:01:08,160 Speaker 1: You know, I know what you're saying is true, Danielle, 21 00:01:08,480 --> 00:01:10,720 Speaker 1: tell me how I mean. I always know what you're 22 00:01:10,720 --> 00:01:13,399 Speaker 1: saying is true, but I can feel it in my body. 23 00:01:13,440 --> 00:01:17,000 Speaker 2: I can feel the stress in my body, you know why. 24 00:01:17,200 --> 00:01:22,000 Speaker 1: Yeah, I had a bit of a traumatizing Christmas last year. 25 00:01:22,480 --> 00:01:24,680 Speaker 1: I think it's one of those ones that will always 26 00:01:24,720 --> 00:01:27,440 Speaker 1: just haunt me for the rest of my life. 27 00:01:27,640 --> 00:01:29,720 Speaker 2: You know. It was a combination of a lot of things. 28 00:01:29,720 --> 00:01:33,480 Speaker 1: When I think about what went wrong, Hosting guests who 29 00:01:33,480 --> 00:01:35,240 Speaker 1: are in from out of town, you know, them staying 30 00:01:35,240 --> 00:01:37,080 Speaker 1: at your place. Number one, that can just be kind 31 00:01:37,120 --> 00:01:38,760 Speaker 1: of stressful because you've got more people in the mix, 32 00:01:39,240 --> 00:01:41,880 Speaker 1: making sure everyone is fed, making sure that Christmas Dinner 33 00:01:41,920 --> 00:01:46,960 Speaker 1: and Christmas Morning are magical, and also just having two 34 00:01:47,000 --> 00:01:50,080 Speaker 1: little kids running around. It was just stressful. But there 35 00:01:50,080 --> 00:01:52,160 Speaker 1: were a couple of moments that really stood out. I mean, 36 00:01:52,800 --> 00:01:54,960 Speaker 1: there is one stressful dinner that comes to mind. We're 37 00:01:55,000 --> 00:01:57,920 Speaker 1: sitting around the table. My oldest son was acting up 38 00:01:57,920 --> 00:01:59,480 Speaker 1: a little bit. He needs to be removed from the 39 00:01:59,480 --> 00:02:02,600 Speaker 1: situation and given some consequences. So my husband kind of 40 00:02:02,640 --> 00:02:05,400 Speaker 1: springs up to get him off of the table and 41 00:02:05,440 --> 00:02:09,040 Speaker 1: take him away. And when he does, Michael's head hits 42 00:02:09,080 --> 00:02:11,600 Speaker 1: the chandelier and hits above the table and it comes 43 00:02:11,639 --> 00:02:16,079 Speaker 1: like crashing down and his Michael's parents are at the 44 00:02:16,120 --> 00:02:18,280 Speaker 1: table with us too. It was like it was so 45 00:02:18,760 --> 00:02:21,760 Speaker 1: embarrassing because we're like parents lit ther best. We clearly 46 00:02:21,760 --> 00:02:23,880 Speaker 1: don't know what we're doing. We're trying to discipline our kid, 47 00:02:24,000 --> 00:02:27,000 Speaker 1: and then we wind up shattering a light that was 48 00:02:28,400 --> 00:02:31,239 Speaker 1: And then Michael and I also get into this huge 49 00:02:31,280 --> 00:02:34,120 Speaker 1: fight about like how much to spend on Christmas gifts 50 00:02:34,120 --> 00:02:37,239 Speaker 1: and you know who's gonna buy the Christmas gifts for 51 00:02:37,280 --> 00:02:42,000 Speaker 1: the kids, And the stress of the holidays eclipsed the 52 00:02:42,160 --> 00:02:45,960 Speaker 1: magic that I wanted to be there, and after last Christmas, 53 00:02:46,040 --> 00:02:48,720 Speaker 1: I vowed to do things differently. So that's why I 54 00:02:48,720 --> 00:02:51,480 Speaker 1: think this conversation with Libby Ward is so important today 55 00:02:51,520 --> 00:02:54,200 Speaker 1: because I just know that she's got so much wisdom 56 00:02:54,360 --> 00:02:56,400 Speaker 1: and knowledge, and she also brings this like sense of 57 00:02:56,480 --> 00:02:59,560 Speaker 1: peace to this conversation too, So I'm really looking forward 58 00:02:59,600 --> 00:03:00,880 Speaker 1: to hearing what she has to say. 59 00:03:01,480 --> 00:03:03,920 Speaker 3: I'm after hearing your story. I'm excited to see what 60 00:03:03,960 --> 00:03:07,880 Speaker 3: her tips are because that does not sound fun. And 61 00:03:08,440 --> 00:03:11,200 Speaker 3: we do have to put the fun back into the 62 00:03:11,200 --> 00:03:13,560 Speaker 3: holidays if it's not there, because that's really what it's 63 00:03:13,560 --> 00:03:19,880 Speaker 3: all about. Family, fun, food, all the fs. You know exactly, Well, 64 00:03:19,919 --> 00:03:22,160 Speaker 3: we're going to get into it with Livy Ward. She's 65 00:03:22,200 --> 00:03:25,360 Speaker 3: a digital creator and mental health advocate and the creator 66 00:03:25,360 --> 00:03:27,919 Speaker 3: of the platform Diary of an Honest Mom. She was 67 00:03:27,960 --> 00:03:30,560 Speaker 3: also part of the inaugural Hello Sunshine collective with me 68 00:03:30,600 --> 00:03:31,240 Speaker 3: and Simone. 69 00:03:31,760 --> 00:03:32,000 Speaker 2: Yeah. 70 00:03:32,000 --> 00:03:34,600 Speaker 1: I felt this instant connection with Libby, and I know 71 00:03:34,680 --> 00:03:37,600 Speaker 1: that everyone listening does too, because her videos are so 72 00:03:38,040 --> 00:03:41,160 Speaker 1: honest and hilarious at the same time. A lot of 73 00:03:41,200 --> 00:03:44,000 Speaker 1: her work centers on changing narratives around gender roles in 74 00:03:44,040 --> 00:03:46,600 Speaker 1: the home, and she's going to be talking about how 75 00:03:46,640 --> 00:03:49,320 Speaker 1: to set boundaries with kids and family members, how we 76 00:03:49,360 --> 00:03:52,360 Speaker 1: can manage our time better, and most importantly, how we 77 00:03:52,360 --> 00:03:55,360 Speaker 1: can actually enjoy ourselves during the holiday season. 78 00:03:55,840 --> 00:03:58,640 Speaker 3: What Simone said, all right, let's bring her in. Livy Ward, 79 00:03:58,800 --> 00:04:00,320 Speaker 3: Welcome to the bright Side. 80 00:04:00,600 --> 00:04:03,240 Speaker 4: Thank you so much. I'm so excited to be here today. 81 00:04:03,480 --> 00:04:06,960 Speaker 3: Okay, so Libby is part of our Hello Sunshine fam 82 00:04:07,000 --> 00:04:10,200 Speaker 3: part of the collective. Yes, so we've all gotten to 83 00:04:10,240 --> 00:04:13,400 Speaker 3: know each other, so it's not like a first meeting. 84 00:04:13,920 --> 00:04:16,000 Speaker 3: I always tell everyone that Hello Sunshine has a great 85 00:04:16,040 --> 00:04:20,960 Speaker 3: picker because yes, you know, yes, everyone they invite to 86 00:04:21,120 --> 00:04:24,279 Speaker 3: join the group or the company is always just smart 87 00:04:24,400 --> 00:04:25,680 Speaker 3: and kind and awesome. 88 00:04:25,920 --> 00:04:27,640 Speaker 4: Yeah, I'm like, I feel like they've got to have 89 00:04:27,640 --> 00:04:30,159 Speaker 4: some type of formula of like do they or what 90 00:04:30,200 --> 00:04:30,480 Speaker 4: are they? 91 00:04:30,640 --> 00:04:30,719 Speaker 5: Like? 92 00:04:31,320 --> 00:04:35,320 Speaker 3: Okay, well, today is actually sort of me asking for 93 00:04:35,360 --> 00:04:40,560 Speaker 3: a friend because I am terrible at saying no, and 94 00:04:40,640 --> 00:04:42,880 Speaker 3: for years I've been telling everyone I'm terrible at it. 95 00:04:42,960 --> 00:04:45,400 Speaker 3: I still can't get better. You are an expert. It's 96 00:04:45,440 --> 00:04:45,760 Speaker 3: saying no. 97 00:04:46,240 --> 00:04:48,359 Speaker 4: Oh, thank you. I don't feel like an expert, but 98 00:04:48,440 --> 00:04:51,520 Speaker 4: I feel like I've had to become one. So just 99 00:04:51,560 --> 00:04:54,320 Speaker 4: do it, scared, is the long and short of it. 100 00:04:54,520 --> 00:04:56,120 Speaker 2: Why do you think you've had to become an expert 101 00:04:56,160 --> 00:04:56,560 Speaker 2: in saying no? 102 00:04:57,240 --> 00:05:02,240 Speaker 4: Because I I'm a recovering people pleaser, and I, for 103 00:05:02,279 --> 00:05:05,040 Speaker 4: a long time was that person who could never say 104 00:05:05,080 --> 00:05:08,000 Speaker 4: no and put my own needs on the back burner 105 00:05:08,120 --> 00:05:10,080 Speaker 4: for so long, to the point that I didn't even 106 00:05:10,200 --> 00:05:12,280 Speaker 4: consciously recognize that I was doing it. It was so 107 00:05:12,480 --> 00:05:15,480 Speaker 4: natural for me to want to make other people happy 108 00:05:15,520 --> 00:05:18,320 Speaker 4: before I made myself happy, that it wasn't even a 109 00:05:18,360 --> 00:05:21,080 Speaker 4: question in my mind. And it wasn't until I burned 110 00:05:21,080 --> 00:05:26,000 Speaker 4: out and resented everyone in my life that I realized 111 00:05:26,360 --> 00:05:29,160 Speaker 4: I need to make a change somewhere. And when I 112 00:05:29,160 --> 00:05:31,080 Speaker 4: say realized, I mean it was like a lot of therapy. 113 00:05:31,640 --> 00:05:34,800 Speaker 1: So you actually wrote a series all about this navigating 114 00:05:34,960 --> 00:05:37,960 Speaker 1: your Nose, which resonated with so many of your followers, 115 00:05:37,960 --> 00:05:39,760 Speaker 1: and so we want to explore that more. 116 00:05:40,600 --> 00:05:42,760 Speaker 2: What exactly set that off? 117 00:05:42,880 --> 00:05:46,080 Speaker 1: Was it a specific incident in your life, a story 118 00:05:46,120 --> 00:05:47,000 Speaker 1: that you can think of. 119 00:05:47,520 --> 00:05:49,800 Speaker 4: I mean, I have countless stories of times in my 120 00:05:49,839 --> 00:05:52,760 Speaker 4: life when I have said yes to everybody and then 121 00:05:52,920 --> 00:05:55,800 Speaker 4: resented them and been burned out. But I would say 122 00:05:55,839 --> 00:06:00,440 Speaker 4: that the highlight of my burnout time is you. During 123 00:06:00,440 --> 00:06:03,600 Speaker 4: the holidays, I want to do fun things, and I 124 00:06:03,640 --> 00:06:07,080 Speaker 4: want to bring the holiday magic, and I want to 125 00:06:07,120 --> 00:06:09,960 Speaker 4: like cultivate nice moments, and I just want to make 126 00:06:10,000 --> 00:06:13,160 Speaker 4: everybody happy. It really is like a reflection of the 127 00:06:13,200 --> 00:06:16,200 Speaker 4: rest of the year. But like on steroids, and so, 128 00:06:16,880 --> 00:06:20,800 Speaker 4: both of my parents they are not working, they don't 129 00:06:21,160 --> 00:06:24,440 Speaker 4: have cars, like my dad was disabled. So even like 130 00:06:24,520 --> 00:06:26,720 Speaker 4: before my kids were born, I was really in a 131 00:06:26,760 --> 00:06:29,120 Speaker 4: supportive role for both of my parents, whether it was 132 00:06:29,440 --> 00:06:33,400 Speaker 4: their health or sometimes their finances or the different practical 133 00:06:33,440 --> 00:06:36,080 Speaker 4: needs for them. And so then that also meant that 134 00:06:36,120 --> 00:06:39,800 Speaker 4: at Christmas time, I had two parents who were divorced, 135 00:06:39,920 --> 00:06:43,680 Speaker 4: and I would host two separate Christmases. So if I 136 00:06:43,720 --> 00:06:49,160 Speaker 4: go back to like twenty seventeen, I have a two 137 00:06:49,279 --> 00:06:54,200 Speaker 4: year old and a baby, and I am hosting Christmas 138 00:06:54,200 --> 00:06:56,960 Speaker 4: for my mom, and then I'm hosting a separate Christmas 139 00:06:56,960 --> 00:06:59,840 Speaker 4: for my dad. And I'm making a full meal, and 140 00:07:00,040 --> 00:07:02,280 Speaker 4: I'm coordinating who's picking them up and taking them home, 141 00:07:02,360 --> 00:07:05,600 Speaker 4: and I'm taking them both Christmas shopping for both of 142 00:07:05,600 --> 00:07:08,360 Speaker 4: my kids and giving them the ideas. And I just 143 00:07:08,480 --> 00:07:10,920 Speaker 4: wanted so much to be that mom who could give 144 00:07:10,960 --> 00:07:14,000 Speaker 4: my kids a really special Christmas but then also felt 145 00:07:14,040 --> 00:07:17,960 Speaker 4: responsible for my parents as well. And I would get 146 00:07:18,200 --> 00:07:22,640 Speaker 4: to like Christmas Day, I wouldn't even have fun, like 147 00:07:22,800 --> 00:07:25,280 Speaker 4: I would be so tired. I couldn't even be present 148 00:07:25,360 --> 00:07:29,000 Speaker 4: watching my kids opening their presence. I was snappy at people, 149 00:07:29,080 --> 00:07:32,320 Speaker 4: I was irritable, I was just falling apart. That's kind 150 00:07:32,400 --> 00:07:34,640 Speaker 4: of how the Holidays always went for me. And that 151 00:07:34,760 --> 00:07:37,440 Speaker 4: was just like my regular life, but on steroids. And 152 00:07:37,480 --> 00:07:42,120 Speaker 4: then in twenty twenty one, I forget what year it was, anyway, 153 00:07:42,200 --> 00:07:45,040 Speaker 4: my dad went into the hospital at the beginning of December, 154 00:07:45,280 --> 00:07:47,680 Speaker 4: and his health had been not good for a long time. 155 00:07:48,200 --> 00:07:50,160 Speaker 4: And I thought about how burnt out I always got 156 00:07:50,200 --> 00:07:52,160 Speaker 4: and how kind of miserable I was, and I just 157 00:07:52,200 --> 00:07:53,600 Speaker 4: had this moment when I was like, I'm not going 158 00:07:53,680 --> 00:07:56,560 Speaker 4: to do that anymore. Like maybe I want to see people, 159 00:07:56,600 --> 00:07:59,560 Speaker 4: but I don't want to cook a big meal. Maybe 160 00:07:59,840 --> 00:08:01,440 Speaker 4: I'm going to see both my parents, but I'm not 161 00:08:01,440 --> 00:08:03,080 Speaker 4: going to host it things like that. So I decided 162 00:08:03,080 --> 00:08:05,920 Speaker 4: I was going to make this change and I wanted 163 00:08:05,960 --> 00:08:07,960 Speaker 4: to spend more time with my dad and have meaningful 164 00:08:08,000 --> 00:08:11,440 Speaker 4: time with him because I hadn't. And then my dad 165 00:08:11,480 --> 00:08:16,040 Speaker 4: died the day after Christmas and I never got to 166 00:08:16,160 --> 00:08:20,080 Speaker 4: do that with him. It's almost like not till it's 167 00:08:20,080 --> 00:08:22,160 Speaker 4: too late that I'm like, why have I been living 168 00:08:22,200 --> 00:08:24,000 Speaker 4: like this? Like why do I just give and give 169 00:08:24,040 --> 00:08:26,000 Speaker 4: and give and give and give and not think about 170 00:08:26,000 --> 00:08:28,000 Speaker 4: it until later? And so that was really like a 171 00:08:28,000 --> 00:08:30,040 Speaker 4: pivotal time for me to be like how do I 172 00:08:30,120 --> 00:08:33,840 Speaker 4: want to live my life? Like how do I want 173 00:08:33,880 --> 00:08:36,800 Speaker 4: to feel when I'm with my people? And is more 174 00:08:36,880 --> 00:08:37,520 Speaker 4: always better? 175 00:08:38,320 --> 00:08:41,400 Speaker 2: No, it sounds like a major turning point in your life. 176 00:08:41,840 --> 00:08:45,880 Speaker 4: Yeah, losing my dad and reflecting back on how I 177 00:08:45,920 --> 00:08:49,840 Speaker 4: had spent so many Decembers was like, I don't want 178 00:08:49,840 --> 00:08:50,600 Speaker 4: to do that anymore. 179 00:08:51,559 --> 00:08:55,320 Speaker 3: How did it change how you celebrate the holidays? Now? 180 00:08:55,559 --> 00:08:56,520 Speaker 3: What do you guys do? 181 00:08:57,760 --> 00:09:01,199 Speaker 4: So I had to sit down and be like, what 182 00:09:01,240 --> 00:09:05,880 Speaker 4: do I actually want? Yes, yes, there's what other people want, 183 00:09:06,000 --> 00:09:09,120 Speaker 4: but what do I actually want what actually brings me joy? 184 00:09:09,640 --> 00:09:12,160 Speaker 4: And I realized that what brings me joy is being 185 00:09:12,200 --> 00:09:15,600 Speaker 4: with my people and like having the energy to do 186 00:09:15,760 --> 00:09:20,400 Speaker 4: those things with my people. And one thing I decided 187 00:09:20,440 --> 00:09:22,880 Speaker 4: is that I'm not going to cook a turkey dinner 188 00:09:22,880 --> 00:09:25,520 Speaker 4: on Christmas Day. Like that's the dumbest idea I've ever 189 00:09:25,559 --> 00:09:29,680 Speaker 4: had in my life. How stupid is so dumb? It's 190 00:09:29,840 --> 00:09:32,679 Speaker 4: me dumbest, Like I had mom friends be like, oh, 191 00:09:32,800 --> 00:09:36,120 Speaker 4: my gosh, tradition. I decided it was going to be 192 00:09:36,160 --> 00:09:38,680 Speaker 4: a stupid tradition. I don't know why, Like it's the 193 00:09:38,720 --> 00:09:41,160 Speaker 4: most complicated. It's not like I was like, Oh, I'm 194 00:09:41,160 --> 00:09:43,080 Speaker 4: going to go to my aunt's house and bring like 195 00:09:43,080 --> 00:09:45,840 Speaker 4: a care at cast role, Like that's a lot of work. No, Like, oh, 196 00:09:45,880 --> 00:09:48,480 Speaker 4: I'm going to make a whole friggin' turkey on like 197 00:09:48,520 --> 00:09:50,719 Speaker 4: the busiest day of the year while I'm supposed to 198 00:09:50,720 --> 00:09:51,720 Speaker 4: be enjoying my kids. 199 00:09:52,480 --> 00:09:54,920 Speaker 1: It's not a tradition, but it's just it's the idea 200 00:09:55,080 --> 00:09:58,840 Speaker 1: of having to prepare this once a year momentous feast 201 00:09:59,200 --> 00:10:02,040 Speaker 1: on the same day when you're supposed to be sitting 202 00:10:02,040 --> 00:10:05,079 Speaker 1: with your kids enjoying watching them playing with their new 203 00:10:05,080 --> 00:10:07,320 Speaker 1: toys and just soaking up all the magic. No, we're 204 00:10:07,360 --> 00:10:11,560 Speaker 1: in the kitchen laboring, trying to ridiculous all these people 205 00:10:11,600 --> 00:10:12,520 Speaker 1: that are staying with us. 206 00:10:13,200 --> 00:10:15,439 Speaker 3: I what's the alternative? Like how do you guys? I 207 00:10:15,640 --> 00:10:17,000 Speaker 3: know it sounds really dumb. 208 00:10:16,760 --> 00:10:20,320 Speaker 5: As it Chinese is the resident jew here? 209 00:10:20,600 --> 00:10:23,640 Speaker 2: Or I'm wondering what you do you order in? 210 00:10:23,720 --> 00:10:25,960 Speaker 4: Okay, So that's what we've started doing. I'm like, Okay, 211 00:10:25,960 --> 00:10:27,800 Speaker 4: what is important to me? People are important to me. 212 00:10:28,000 --> 00:10:29,800 Speaker 4: So that means I don't need to cook a turkey dinner. 213 00:10:30,000 --> 00:10:31,920 Speaker 4: That means that either I'm cooking it days before and 214 00:10:31,920 --> 00:10:35,640 Speaker 4: I'm heating up leftovers, which that I highly recommend if 215 00:10:35,679 --> 00:10:38,680 Speaker 4: you like really want that like Turkey day feeling and 216 00:10:38,720 --> 00:10:41,320 Speaker 4: you don't get it from anywhere else. Because I also, like, 217 00:10:41,360 --> 00:10:43,760 Speaker 4: I don't have lots of family get togethers to go to, 218 00:10:43,920 --> 00:10:45,720 Speaker 4: so if I don't make the turkey dinner, the turkey 219 00:10:45,720 --> 00:10:47,920 Speaker 4: dinner doesn't happen. Yeah, And that's another part of it 220 00:10:47,920 --> 00:10:49,600 Speaker 4: that I'm like, I want this to be a part 221 00:10:49,640 --> 00:10:51,800 Speaker 4: of like the smells and the sounds and the like 222 00:10:52,080 --> 00:10:54,199 Speaker 4: I want that to be a part of my kid's childhood, 223 00:10:54,400 --> 00:10:55,960 Speaker 4: but if I am not the person to do it, 224 00:10:55,960 --> 00:10:56,880 Speaker 4: it's not gonna happen. 225 00:10:57,120 --> 00:10:57,280 Speaker 5: Right. 226 00:10:57,480 --> 00:10:59,600 Speaker 4: So I was like, Okay, either we're going to order 227 00:10:59,640 --> 00:11:03,440 Speaker 4: in or I'm going to mix something ahead and then 228 00:11:03,720 --> 00:11:07,240 Speaker 4: do leftovers, and so finding ways to like still do 229 00:11:07,320 --> 00:11:09,360 Speaker 4: the things that are important to me, but in an 230 00:11:09,600 --> 00:11:10,760 Speaker 4: easier way. 231 00:11:11,280 --> 00:11:15,439 Speaker 3: Do these moments make you both reflect on the labor 232 00:11:15,480 --> 00:11:18,880 Speaker 3: that your mother and or grandmother like whoever was at 233 00:11:18,880 --> 00:11:20,960 Speaker 3: the helm of these traditions. 234 00:11:20,720 --> 00:11:21,520 Speaker 2: A thousand years? 235 00:11:21,559 --> 00:11:23,120 Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, yeah, it does. 236 00:11:23,320 --> 00:11:26,000 Speaker 1: Yeah for me, it did. I mean there's two phases 237 00:11:26,000 --> 00:11:28,000 Speaker 1: of motherhood. You become a mom and then you become 238 00:11:28,080 --> 00:11:30,520 Speaker 1: the matriarch of the family, and like that happens at 239 00:11:30,520 --> 00:11:33,400 Speaker 1: different points, right, But to me, the idea of like 240 00:11:33,440 --> 00:11:36,440 Speaker 1: stepping into that matriarch role is like, you're now the 241 00:11:36,440 --> 00:11:39,319 Speaker 1: one hosting the dinners. You're now the one hosting the holidays, 242 00:11:39,320 --> 00:11:42,000 Speaker 1: and you're the one kind of responsible for generating all 243 00:11:42,000 --> 00:11:44,840 Speaker 1: the magic around the holidays. And as I started to 244 00:11:44,840 --> 00:11:48,200 Speaker 1: step into that role and host more, I was blown 245 00:11:48,240 --> 00:11:50,679 Speaker 1: away by how much work and preparation went into it. 246 00:11:50,800 --> 00:11:53,960 Speaker 1: Like we're talking, you've got to start two weeks before 247 00:11:54,120 --> 00:11:57,840 Speaker 1: getting your ingredient list together a week before cooking. I 248 00:11:57,840 --> 00:11:59,600 Speaker 1: had a conversation with someone the other day. I can't 249 00:11:59,600 --> 00:12:02,040 Speaker 1: remember who it was, but she was telling me the 250 00:12:02,120 --> 00:12:05,200 Speaker 1: Christmases and the holidays that you remember are from when 251 00:12:05,600 --> 00:12:09,120 Speaker 1: you were a bit older. So it's not like you 252 00:12:09,160 --> 00:12:14,160 Speaker 1: don't remember seeing your mom, you know, stressed out, max 253 00:12:14,200 --> 00:12:18,040 Speaker 1: it out with her two toddlers, you know, hanging on 254 00:12:18,120 --> 00:12:21,840 Speaker 1: her ankles. Like, we don't remember that, but that did happen. 255 00:12:22,040 --> 00:12:26,080 Speaker 1: Our moms just were able to like take some time 256 00:12:26,120 --> 00:12:27,839 Speaker 1: to figure out how to master all this, and the 257 00:12:28,200 --> 00:12:30,600 Speaker 1: holidays that we actually remember that were truly magical are 258 00:12:30,640 --> 00:12:33,600 Speaker 1: once our moms had the practice to do it for 259 00:12:33,640 --> 00:12:36,760 Speaker 1: long enough and feel like they could manage it right well. 260 00:12:36,760 --> 00:12:41,160 Speaker 4: And in my scenario, like I didn't have that mom, 261 00:12:41,200 --> 00:12:44,520 Speaker 4: and so we sometimes went to like a larger family 262 00:12:44,559 --> 00:12:47,400 Speaker 4: get together at an ant's house or something like that. Yeah, 263 00:12:47,440 --> 00:12:51,319 Speaker 4: but my mom wasn't the Martha Stewart, and she didn't 264 00:12:51,640 --> 00:12:54,120 Speaker 4: do those things necessarily, Like she loved gift giving and 265 00:12:54,200 --> 00:12:57,320 Speaker 4: she made Christmas Morning magical and things like that. But 266 00:12:57,360 --> 00:12:59,320 Speaker 4: there was a lot of things that I had kind 267 00:12:59,320 --> 00:13:02,480 Speaker 4: of wished for or wanted for in my childhood in 268 00:13:02,600 --> 00:13:05,400 Speaker 4: general and around the holidays and things I saw in 269 00:13:05,480 --> 00:13:07,319 Speaker 4: movies are in my friend's houses. 270 00:13:07,600 --> 00:13:10,000 Speaker 3: Was that some of the pressure you're trying to create this. 271 00:13:10,000 --> 00:13:13,520 Speaker 4: Absolutely absolutely So It's not like I had these traditions 272 00:13:13,559 --> 00:13:15,719 Speaker 4: handed down to me and this like this is how 273 00:13:15,760 --> 00:13:18,160 Speaker 4: you do it, or even a model of like what 274 00:13:18,240 --> 00:13:21,679 Speaker 4: that looks like. I didn't have it, And because I 275 00:13:21,720 --> 00:13:24,319 Speaker 4: wanted to make it magical, I went above and beyond. 276 00:13:24,679 --> 00:13:27,400 Speaker 4: And so rather than having this like average bar of 277 00:13:27,440 --> 00:13:30,199 Speaker 4: good enough, I had this like super high bar of 278 00:13:30,240 --> 00:13:33,840 Speaker 4: like I want to give my kids something that I 279 00:13:33,920 --> 00:13:37,640 Speaker 4: never had. And so I sort of entered that like 280 00:13:37,800 --> 00:13:40,120 Speaker 4: matriarch role. I feel like when I became an adult, 281 00:13:40,120 --> 00:13:42,840 Speaker 4: like before I even became a mom, and I enjoyed 282 00:13:43,000 --> 00:13:46,240 Speaker 4: like making parties special and I enjoyed like making it 283 00:13:46,440 --> 00:13:48,719 Speaker 4: pretty and cooking and having people over and all of that. 284 00:13:48,920 --> 00:13:50,960 Speaker 4: And it wasn't until I became a mom of multiple 285 00:13:51,040 --> 00:13:53,560 Speaker 4: kids that I was like, what the frig, Like this 286 00:13:53,640 --> 00:13:55,880 Speaker 4: is a lot of work, This is so much work. 287 00:13:55,920 --> 00:13:58,840 Speaker 4: Why the frig am I doing this to myself? Like 288 00:13:58,920 --> 00:14:01,840 Speaker 4: why am I doing all of it? And when I 289 00:14:01,920 --> 00:14:05,440 Speaker 4: had this epiphany of like wanting to change. It was like, 290 00:14:06,280 --> 00:14:08,240 Speaker 4: what I really want to give my kids that I 291 00:14:08,320 --> 00:14:13,160 Speaker 4: never had is a mom that is emotionally regulated and 292 00:14:13,280 --> 00:14:17,200 Speaker 4: present and not so stressed out that I'm disassociated staring 293 00:14:17,240 --> 00:14:20,560 Speaker 4: at the ceiling when they're opening a gift that I 294 00:14:20,600 --> 00:14:23,600 Speaker 4: worked really hard to give them, Like I would rather 295 00:14:23,680 --> 00:14:28,480 Speaker 4: them have less gifts and less traditions and less of 296 00:14:28,600 --> 00:14:31,640 Speaker 4: all the stupid crap that everyone says we need to 297 00:14:31,680 --> 00:14:35,680 Speaker 4: do and these like unrealistic expectations. 298 00:14:35,280 --> 00:14:36,320 Speaker 2: And more of a fun mom. 299 00:14:36,480 --> 00:14:38,240 Speaker 4: Yeah, I want to be a fun mom. I want 300 00:14:38,240 --> 00:14:40,600 Speaker 4: to be present and I like having fun with my kids. 301 00:14:40,880 --> 00:14:42,400 Speaker 4: And I just got to a point where I wasn't 302 00:14:42,400 --> 00:14:44,680 Speaker 4: fun with my kids or with myself. I like, I 303 00:14:44,720 --> 00:14:45,920 Speaker 4: want to enjoy this and I'm not. 304 00:14:46,560 --> 00:14:48,760 Speaker 3: I actually feel like I owe my mom a huge 305 00:14:48,760 --> 00:14:54,000 Speaker 3: apology because she was a working mom who did everything, 306 00:14:54,160 --> 00:14:56,360 Speaker 3: and so she was at the helm of so many 307 00:14:56,360 --> 00:14:58,840 Speaker 3: of our traditions. And my brother and my dad and 308 00:14:58,920 --> 00:15:02,640 Speaker 3: I would make fun of my mom because we're like 309 00:15:02,720 --> 00:15:07,280 Speaker 3: at every single holiday or event, she's yelling, she's stressed out, 310 00:15:07,920 --> 00:15:11,680 Speaker 3: and we would just barely get dressed and show up. 311 00:15:12,200 --> 00:15:15,280 Speaker 3: And it's not till I turn thirty two or thirty three. 312 00:15:15,360 --> 00:15:18,520 Speaker 3: Did I realize she's only stressed out because no one 313 00:15:18,600 --> 00:15:19,680 Speaker 3: is helping and. 314 00:15:19,640 --> 00:15:23,400 Speaker 4: Because she's doing it for you. Yes, yeah, that mixture 315 00:15:23,440 --> 00:15:25,720 Speaker 4: of like she's doing it for me and no one 316 00:15:25,720 --> 00:15:27,560 Speaker 4: else is doing anything, and the difference it can make 317 00:15:27,560 --> 00:15:30,920 Speaker 4: to have other people in the house participate and like 318 00:15:31,120 --> 00:15:33,760 Speaker 4: making the magic happen is huge. 319 00:15:35,280 --> 00:15:36,920 Speaker 3: We have to take a quick break, but we'll be 320 00:15:37,000 --> 00:15:50,360 Speaker 3: right back with Libby Ward. And we're back with Libby Ward. 321 00:15:51,560 --> 00:15:54,560 Speaker 1: So you had your epiphany in twenty twenty one, marked 322 00:15:54,560 --> 00:15:58,560 Speaker 1: by tremendous grief. I had a different kind of epiphany 323 00:15:58,760 --> 00:16:02,200 Speaker 1: last year, but similar takeaway, just that like I cannot 324 00:16:02,240 --> 00:16:05,080 Speaker 1: continue to do the holidays a way that I'm doing it. 325 00:16:05,200 --> 00:16:09,160 Speaker 1: Last year truly traumatized me the holidays. Yeah, oh yeah, 326 00:16:09,160 --> 00:16:12,920 Speaker 1: I was traumatizing. My sons were three and two, and again, 327 00:16:12,960 --> 00:16:15,080 Speaker 1: it's everything that you just said. I just resonated with 328 00:16:15,120 --> 00:16:17,600 Speaker 1: everything that you just said, like putting this tremendous pressure 329 00:16:17,600 --> 00:16:20,480 Speaker 1: on myself to look good in front of the relatives 330 00:16:20,480 --> 00:16:23,920 Speaker 1: who are coming in town, to make it feel magical 331 00:16:23,920 --> 00:16:26,680 Speaker 1: for my kids, which just left me completely depleted. And 332 00:16:26,720 --> 00:16:31,040 Speaker 1: I turned to my fellow moms in a group chat 333 00:16:31,080 --> 00:16:34,560 Speaker 1: that we have and turns out everyone was going through 334 00:16:34,560 --> 00:16:35,560 Speaker 1: the exact same thing. 335 00:16:35,680 --> 00:16:37,080 Speaker 2: It's just no one talks about it. 336 00:16:37,600 --> 00:16:39,600 Speaker 1: Like my friend said this, She said, I just yelled 337 00:16:39,640 --> 00:16:41,560 Speaker 1: at everyone and said today I feel like I'm in 338 00:16:41,600 --> 00:16:44,360 Speaker 1: hell and I can't stand them all. Merry Christmas, right, 339 00:16:44,760 --> 00:16:46,200 Speaker 1: you know? And I told her, I said, I don't 340 00:16:46,200 --> 00:16:47,920 Speaker 1: think I'm doing this again next year. I think I'm 341 00:16:47,920 --> 00:16:51,560 Speaker 1: getting it all catered and I'm not hosting. She said, 342 00:16:51,600 --> 00:16:53,680 Speaker 1: I feel like it was the Christmas from Hell, ninety 343 00:16:53,720 --> 00:16:58,000 Speaker 1: percent chaotic, maybe ten percent enjoyable. One last thing, my 344 00:16:58,040 --> 00:17:00,560 Speaker 1: friend said to me, why does everyone else look like 345 00:17:00,600 --> 00:17:03,000 Speaker 1: they had a magical time on social media? 346 00:17:03,040 --> 00:17:05,200 Speaker 2: Like are they different or are they just they're gnaying 347 00:17:05,280 --> 00:17:05,600 Speaker 2: about it. 348 00:17:05,640 --> 00:17:06,359 Speaker 4: They're not different. 349 00:17:06,480 --> 00:17:07,439 Speaker 2: I don't think they're different. 350 00:17:07,560 --> 00:17:10,080 Speaker 4: No, they're not different. Well, okay, I think that some 351 00:17:10,240 --> 00:17:13,520 Speaker 4: people are different, like maybe they have larger support networks, 352 00:17:13,600 --> 00:17:15,240 Speaker 4: and maybe they are showing after their mom's house and 353 00:17:15,280 --> 00:17:16,840 Speaker 4: their mom's doing everything and they get to play with 354 00:17:16,840 --> 00:17:19,280 Speaker 4: the kids because the older generation is doing it. But 355 00:17:19,400 --> 00:17:23,360 Speaker 4: I think for the majority, it's the same for everyone. 356 00:17:23,720 --> 00:17:26,399 Speaker 4: And then there's this other piece of the emotional labor 357 00:17:26,760 --> 00:17:30,800 Speaker 4: of managing people that you're seeing around the holidays. That 358 00:17:30,880 --> 00:17:33,560 Speaker 4: you maybe don't see as often. They don't see each 359 00:17:33,600 --> 00:17:37,960 Speaker 4: other as often. There's drama, there's you know, this aunt 360 00:17:38,080 --> 00:17:40,480 Speaker 4: doesn't want to sit beside this ant, and this kid 361 00:17:40,520 --> 00:17:43,159 Speaker 4: doesn't get along with this kid, and your husband's doing X, 362 00:17:43,240 --> 00:17:45,439 Speaker 4: Y Z, and so you're not only doing all the 363 00:17:45,480 --> 00:17:48,080 Speaker 4: things and thinking about all the things and planning all 364 00:17:48,080 --> 00:17:50,800 Speaker 4: the things, but then you're having to manage people's moods 365 00:17:50,800 --> 00:17:53,440 Speaker 4: and behavior and is everyone okay? And as everyone feeling it, 366 00:17:53,560 --> 00:17:56,399 Speaker 4: and you're left with absolutely no energy, and it does. 367 00:17:56,600 --> 00:17:58,000 Speaker 4: It is like the Christmas from Hell. 368 00:17:58,280 --> 00:18:00,760 Speaker 1: There's so much power in just talk talking about it 369 00:18:01,000 --> 00:18:04,719 Speaker 1: and realizing that we all have shared experiences. I remember 370 00:18:04,760 --> 00:18:06,880 Speaker 1: feeling less alone when I talked about it with my friends. 371 00:18:06,920 --> 00:18:09,119 Speaker 1: I feel less alone now when I'm talking about it 372 00:18:09,160 --> 00:18:12,800 Speaker 1: with you. I know that we want to talk about solutions. 373 00:18:13,400 --> 00:18:15,240 Speaker 1: How have you brought your husband into all this? 374 00:18:15,840 --> 00:18:18,280 Speaker 4: We have been having conversations about how we share the 375 00:18:18,359 --> 00:18:22,760 Speaker 4: labor in our home since we got married fifteen years ago. 376 00:18:23,040 --> 00:18:26,240 Speaker 4: I became a mom ten years ago, and our conversations 377 00:18:26,280 --> 00:18:28,800 Speaker 4: have evolved over time, just like our needs and our 378 00:18:28,880 --> 00:18:32,120 Speaker 4: jobs and our circumstances have evolved over time. And one 379 00:18:32,119 --> 00:18:33,960 Speaker 4: of the things that people always ask me is like, 380 00:18:34,000 --> 00:18:35,720 Speaker 4: how do I have a conversation about the mental load 381 00:18:35,800 --> 00:18:38,560 Speaker 4: with my partner? How do I start this conversation? How 382 00:18:38,560 --> 00:18:40,440 Speaker 4: do I do this? And I think there's like this 383 00:18:40,600 --> 00:18:43,480 Speaker 4: idea that there's going to be one conversation where you're like, 384 00:18:43,920 --> 00:18:46,040 Speaker 4: I've been doing it all and I can't do it 385 00:18:46,080 --> 00:18:48,240 Speaker 4: anymore and I need help, and this is what the 386 00:18:48,240 --> 00:18:50,879 Speaker 4: mental load is, and here's the perfect words to explain it. 387 00:18:51,200 --> 00:18:53,200 Speaker 4: And he or she is going to be like, oh 388 00:18:53,240 --> 00:18:56,920 Speaker 4: my gosh, I didn't realize that's so terrible. I will 389 00:18:56,920 --> 00:18:59,399 Speaker 4: take exactly half of it now and everything is solved. 390 00:19:00,000 --> 00:19:03,480 Speaker 4: They we're all good. But the reality is that it 391 00:19:03,520 --> 00:19:07,600 Speaker 4: takes a lot of conversations and compassion and empathy and 392 00:19:07,720 --> 00:19:11,800 Speaker 4: understanding and just like constantly coming back to it and 393 00:19:11,920 --> 00:19:15,400 Speaker 4: working on that throughout the year and your partnership before 394 00:19:15,440 --> 00:19:18,560 Speaker 4: the holidays. But I would say that if you can 395 00:19:18,640 --> 00:19:21,000 Speaker 4: be like be having these conversations all the time and 396 00:19:21,840 --> 00:19:24,439 Speaker 4: get to a point where the things your husband or 397 00:19:24,440 --> 00:19:27,680 Speaker 4: your partner are doing are not considered help. If your 398 00:19:27,680 --> 00:19:31,119 Speaker 4: partner is cooking or cleaning or looking after your shared children, 399 00:19:31,119 --> 00:19:35,000 Speaker 4: they aren't helping you. They are their children as well, 400 00:19:35,200 --> 00:19:39,359 Speaker 4: and so the language we use is really important. And 401 00:19:39,520 --> 00:19:41,960 Speaker 4: so I would say, if someone's going into the holidays, 402 00:19:41,920 --> 00:19:44,439 Speaker 4: so you're like, I'm stressed the frig out, what do 403 00:19:44,520 --> 00:19:48,440 Speaker 4: I do? Sit down with your partner, talk about what 404 00:19:48,560 --> 00:19:51,639 Speaker 4: is important to you, what is something you actually really 405 00:19:51,680 --> 00:19:54,119 Speaker 4: want to do, what is important to them, So like 406 00:19:54,200 --> 00:19:57,600 Speaker 4: hearing each other's what are your expectations, what are your hopes, 407 00:19:57,600 --> 00:20:01,600 Speaker 4: and then deciding what is sustainable and reasonable and like 408 00:20:01,600 --> 00:20:02,760 Speaker 4: what are you going to do? And then how are 409 00:20:02,760 --> 00:20:06,480 Speaker 4: you going to split that up? So for me, gift 410 00:20:06,560 --> 00:20:10,159 Speaker 4: giving is a lot of work, but I also like it. 411 00:20:10,720 --> 00:20:13,760 Speaker 4: And so having a conversation with my husband to be like, hey, 412 00:20:14,119 --> 00:20:17,680 Speaker 4: I understand that I like gift giving, but also it 413 00:20:17,760 --> 00:20:21,040 Speaker 4: is work and it takes time. What are things that 414 00:20:21,160 --> 00:20:24,119 Speaker 4: you can do in the time that I am doing that, 415 00:20:24,280 --> 00:20:27,200 Speaker 4: whether it's like him taking more responsibility for the kids, 416 00:20:27,400 --> 00:20:30,439 Speaker 4: whether it's him hanging the lights on the house, like 417 00:20:30,560 --> 00:20:33,080 Speaker 4: different things like that, so that it's not always just 418 00:20:33,160 --> 00:20:36,040 Speaker 4: assumed that everything is my responsibility, even if it's a 419 00:20:36,119 --> 00:20:36,879 Speaker 4: value of mine. 420 00:20:37,480 --> 00:20:40,479 Speaker 3: So we just interviewed an expert on boundaries, Nedra Tawab, 421 00:20:40,680 --> 00:20:43,800 Speaker 3: and she shared two terms with us. Poorest boundaries and 422 00:20:43,920 --> 00:20:47,800 Speaker 3: rigid boundaries, and I'm curious how you determine which boundaries 423 00:20:47,840 --> 00:20:50,640 Speaker 3: are right for you over the holidays, because you seem 424 00:20:50,680 --> 00:20:53,119 Speaker 3: to have more rigid boundaries, but the holidays are so 425 00:20:53,320 --> 00:20:58,640 Speaker 3: much about other people's knows and yeses. I'm curious how 426 00:20:58,640 --> 00:21:01,480 Speaker 3: you think about everyone's wants and needs while also thinking 427 00:21:01,480 --> 00:21:03,400 Speaker 3: about yourself more Now, it's a. 428 00:21:03,320 --> 00:21:06,960 Speaker 4: Really good question. I think that it depends on the boundary, 429 00:21:06,960 --> 00:21:09,280 Speaker 4: and it depends on the person. There's people in my 430 00:21:09,359 --> 00:21:11,679 Speaker 4: life that I need to have very rigid boundaries with 431 00:21:11,800 --> 00:21:13,760 Speaker 4: people that I say, this is what I'm able and 432 00:21:13,800 --> 00:21:16,439 Speaker 4: willing to do, kind of take it or leave it, 433 00:21:16,640 --> 00:21:18,720 Speaker 4: and if this boundary is crossed, then this is what's 434 00:21:18,760 --> 00:21:20,240 Speaker 4: going to happen. And I have to follow through on 435 00:21:20,280 --> 00:21:22,919 Speaker 4: that because of their personality type or the relationship or 436 00:21:22,920 --> 00:21:26,560 Speaker 4: something like that. And so I just communicate that clearly 437 00:21:26,680 --> 00:21:28,440 Speaker 4: and then I follow through with what I say I'm 438 00:21:28,440 --> 00:21:31,760 Speaker 4: going to do. There's other people in other scenarios where 439 00:21:31,960 --> 00:21:34,760 Speaker 4: they are more porous, and you know, they can be 440 00:21:34,800 --> 00:21:37,520 Speaker 4: a little bit more flexible, and you have to be 441 00:21:37,520 --> 00:21:40,600 Speaker 4: because it's a busy time and people are human and 442 00:21:40,640 --> 00:21:43,320 Speaker 4: people make mistakes and sometimes things take more work than 443 00:21:43,320 --> 00:21:45,720 Speaker 4: you thought they were going to take. And I think 444 00:21:45,720 --> 00:21:50,000 Speaker 4: it's a lot about being aware of yourself and your 445 00:21:50,040 --> 00:21:53,919 Speaker 4: needs and your capacity and then actually communicating those things. 446 00:21:54,119 --> 00:21:57,359 Speaker 4: And so now I just really try to practice this 447 00:21:57,840 --> 00:22:01,160 Speaker 4: self awareness. I guess of like what is that going 448 00:22:01,200 --> 00:22:03,320 Speaker 4: to take out of me? Like how much is that 449 00:22:03,400 --> 00:22:06,080 Speaker 4: going to take? Something we don't talk about is like 450 00:22:06,119 --> 00:22:10,440 Speaker 4: the labor of boundary setting, yeah, right, like the mental labor. Yeah, 451 00:22:10,480 --> 00:22:13,760 Speaker 4: the mental labor of it, like the energy that it expends. 452 00:22:13,840 --> 00:22:18,240 Speaker 4: And if you have healthy relationships in your life, saying hey, 453 00:22:18,880 --> 00:22:22,159 Speaker 4: I'm not going to be hosting Christmas dinner anymore and 454 00:22:22,200 --> 00:22:24,919 Speaker 4: cooking everything. We still would love to see you, but 455 00:22:24,960 --> 00:22:28,440 Speaker 4: we're actually gonna order in. You can have that conversation 456 00:22:28,520 --> 00:22:30,560 Speaker 4: with someone and they could be like, cool, that's great. 457 00:22:31,080 --> 00:22:32,880 Speaker 4: Like my you know, my brother and his wife are 458 00:22:32,920 --> 00:22:34,720 Speaker 4: like that's great. We joke that I'm like Libby two 459 00:22:34,720 --> 00:22:36,520 Speaker 4: point zero now, like I was Libby one point zero 460 00:22:36,560 --> 00:22:38,600 Speaker 4: and I was like a basket case every Christmas, and 461 00:22:38,600 --> 00:22:40,640 Speaker 4: they're like, we like Libby two point Oh. Libby two 462 00:22:40,680 --> 00:22:43,119 Speaker 4: point zero also then like forgets a lot of stuff 463 00:22:43,240 --> 00:22:45,480 Speaker 4: because she tries to be relaxed, and so we choke 464 00:22:45,560 --> 00:22:48,600 Speaker 4: that it's like a little maybe more chaotic, never like, 465 00:22:51,560 --> 00:22:53,639 Speaker 4: and I'm like, yeah, if you want me to be 466 00:22:53,680 --> 00:22:55,440 Speaker 4: more relaxed, you have to just deal with that. There's 467 00:22:55,480 --> 00:22:57,359 Speaker 4: going to be more chaos and maybe I'm not going 468 00:22:57,400 --> 00:22:59,399 Speaker 4: to have everyone's favorite drink, Like that's just going to 469 00:22:59,480 --> 00:23:02,640 Speaker 4: be how it is. And yet there's other people where 470 00:23:02,640 --> 00:23:05,040 Speaker 4: you could have that exact same conversation, Hey, we're going 471 00:23:05,080 --> 00:23:07,800 Speaker 4: to order in from now on, and like Grandma Bernadette 472 00:23:07,840 --> 00:23:10,960 Speaker 4: is like, well, you can't do that because we've done 473 00:23:11,040 --> 00:23:13,159 Speaker 4: this for this many years and this is what the 474 00:23:13,160 --> 00:23:15,560 Speaker 4: holidays look like and that's what this is. And so 475 00:23:15,680 --> 00:23:20,280 Speaker 4: that takes so much energy, and that is something that 476 00:23:20,320 --> 00:23:22,280 Speaker 4: you want to talk about with your partner as well, Like, 477 00:23:22,320 --> 00:23:24,560 Speaker 4: if you're going to set all these boundaries, why are 478 00:23:24,600 --> 00:23:26,600 Speaker 4: we the ones that have to stay to the mother 479 00:23:26,640 --> 00:23:29,439 Speaker 4: in law? This is not what we're going to do 480 00:23:29,480 --> 00:23:32,040 Speaker 4: this yere? Why can't they have that conversation? Yeah, And 481 00:23:32,080 --> 00:23:35,480 Speaker 4: like recognizing the work it takes to explain to everybody 482 00:23:35,480 --> 00:23:39,760 Speaker 4: else how much energy, recognizing the work it takes to 483 00:23:39,840 --> 00:23:42,359 Speaker 4: set boundaries with people and then sharing that work as well. 484 00:23:43,000 --> 00:23:45,639 Speaker 1: Some of our worst arguments as husband and wife have 485 00:23:45,760 --> 00:23:48,680 Speaker 1: been around boundary setting with family members. 486 00:23:48,800 --> 00:23:51,359 Speaker 2: It's really it's really, really hard. 487 00:23:51,320 --> 00:23:53,240 Speaker 4: And I think sometimes I don't want to put words 488 00:23:53,280 --> 00:23:56,159 Speaker 4: in your mouth, but sometimes like they don't see the 489 00:23:56,280 --> 00:23:58,360 Speaker 4: need to set the boundaries or say the hard thing 490 00:23:58,440 --> 00:24:00,960 Speaker 4: because they aren't the ones that are impact by it, right. 491 00:24:01,440 --> 00:24:04,119 Speaker 4: They maybe are like, oh, we don't want conflict, Like 492 00:24:04,160 --> 00:24:05,680 Speaker 4: we don't really need to say that. It's not really 493 00:24:05,720 --> 00:24:07,040 Speaker 4: a big deal. But at the end of the day, 494 00:24:07,440 --> 00:24:09,200 Speaker 4: who's the one that ends up doing the work and 495 00:24:09,280 --> 00:24:10,200 Speaker 4: ends up being burnt out? 496 00:24:10,800 --> 00:24:11,760 Speaker 2: Yeah, you are. 497 00:24:12,520 --> 00:24:15,600 Speaker 1: When it comes to setting boundaries. Do you have any 498 00:24:15,680 --> 00:24:19,760 Speaker 1: specific examples of effective language that's really been helpful for you. 499 00:24:20,680 --> 00:24:25,040 Speaker 4: I lean away from giving the full explanation of why, 500 00:24:25,720 --> 00:24:28,520 Speaker 4: so as opposed to specific language, I would just say 501 00:24:28,520 --> 00:24:33,159 Speaker 4: that I'm very conscious of being, Hey, this is what 502 00:24:33,200 --> 00:24:35,720 Speaker 4: we're going to do this year, and this is what 503 00:24:35,720 --> 00:24:38,240 Speaker 4: it's going to look like. I'm looking forward to seeing 504 00:24:38,320 --> 00:24:41,800 Speaker 4: you just wanted to set that expectation or we are 505 00:24:41,840 --> 00:24:43,920 Speaker 4: not going to be able to make it to that. Unfortunately, 506 00:24:44,000 --> 00:24:48,240 Speaker 4: I'm sorry, not hey, thanks for inviting me. I'm so sorry, 507 00:24:48,320 --> 00:24:50,600 Speaker 4: but I'm so overwhelmed right now because this person wants this, 508 00:24:50,640 --> 00:24:52,280 Speaker 4: and this person wants this, and I'm burnt out at 509 00:24:52,320 --> 00:24:55,240 Speaker 4: work and I'm going through this thing, and I have 510 00:24:55,640 --> 00:24:58,080 Speaker 4: this appointment, and that appointment like giving them the full 511 00:24:58,119 --> 00:25:03,200 Speaker 4: explanation of why, just saying no, sorry, we're unable to 512 00:25:03,240 --> 00:25:04,720 Speaker 4: make it. You don't need to tell them what else 513 00:25:04,720 --> 00:25:06,960 Speaker 4: you're doing, Like if you are laying down on the 514 00:25:06,960 --> 00:25:10,240 Speaker 4: couch at home eating bonbonds, that is busy. That is busy. 515 00:25:10,720 --> 00:25:14,080 Speaker 4: You don't need to fill every moment. You are not 516 00:25:14,280 --> 00:25:17,240 Speaker 4: free just because you don't have plans, like resting is 517 00:25:17,280 --> 00:25:17,960 Speaker 4: a plan. 518 00:25:18,640 --> 00:25:20,960 Speaker 1: Because you don't really want to open up the door 519 00:25:21,119 --> 00:25:24,639 Speaker 1: to unraveling the boundary, right, And I feel like sometimes 520 00:25:24,640 --> 00:25:27,520 Speaker 1: when we over communicate, that's what can happen. 521 00:25:27,359 --> 00:25:29,640 Speaker 4: Right well, and then people question your decisions more likely, 522 00:25:29,680 --> 00:25:32,200 Speaker 4: Oh well, if the reason you can't come is because 523 00:25:32,200 --> 00:25:35,359 Speaker 4: little Susie has a recital at six, we can just 524 00:25:35,359 --> 00:25:37,119 Speaker 4: have the dinner at eight. And then you're like, oh 525 00:25:37,160 --> 00:25:39,359 Speaker 4: my gosh, no, I just didn't want to go, So 526 00:25:39,600 --> 00:25:41,080 Speaker 4: you don't made point. 527 00:25:41,440 --> 00:25:42,960 Speaker 3: I never thought about that. 528 00:25:43,040 --> 00:25:47,160 Speaker 4: All the reason less is more yes, no details, Yeah, sorry, 529 00:25:47,280 --> 00:25:50,280 Speaker 4: can't make it. 530 00:25:50,280 --> 00:25:51,760 Speaker 2: It's time for another quick break. 531 00:25:51,880 --> 00:26:00,760 Speaker 1: We'll be right back, And we're back with Libby Ward 532 00:26:01,880 --> 00:26:04,439 Speaker 1: there's a book that I feel like anyone who is 533 00:26:04,480 --> 00:26:08,040 Speaker 1: listening to this conversation, who is feeling this and this 534 00:26:08,080 --> 00:26:11,359 Speaker 1: is resonating with you, I would highly recommend that you 535 00:26:11,400 --> 00:26:15,840 Speaker 1: read Pooja Lash means Real self Care. She talks about 536 00:26:15,880 --> 00:26:19,439 Speaker 1: exactly that, how to set boundaries, and what you mentioned 537 00:26:19,480 --> 00:26:23,560 Speaker 1: about being succinct but also authoritative is what she instructs 538 00:26:23,600 --> 00:26:27,120 Speaker 1: us to do. Another thing that she wrote and when 539 00:26:27,119 --> 00:26:30,680 Speaker 1: I read this, I exhaled, My shoulders loosened, my jaw loosened, 540 00:26:30,760 --> 00:26:34,840 Speaker 1: I was able to exhale, accept the identity of the 541 00:26:34,840 --> 00:26:35,680 Speaker 1: good enough mom. 542 00:26:36,359 --> 00:26:38,560 Speaker 4: Oh one hundred percent. I was talking about this morning 543 00:26:38,600 --> 00:26:38,960 Speaker 4: with a friend. 544 00:26:39,119 --> 00:26:44,639 Speaker 1: Yeah, and vocalize that in your inner dialogue, instead of 545 00:26:44,680 --> 00:26:47,879 Speaker 1: striving for perfection, instead of trying to be mini Mouse 546 00:26:47,880 --> 00:26:51,840 Speaker 1: around the holidays and create this magical environment, except that. 547 00:26:52,040 --> 00:26:53,800 Speaker 2: I'm the good enough mom. I'm not always going to 548 00:26:53,840 --> 00:26:55,600 Speaker 2: get it right, but I'm still good enough. 549 00:26:55,760 --> 00:26:59,040 Speaker 4: Absolutely. And also this piece of just because it feels 550 00:26:59,080 --> 00:27:02,080 Speaker 4: wrong doesn't mean it is wrong. And I have really 551 00:27:02,119 --> 00:27:05,560 Speaker 4: had to push through that discomfort of I am going 552 00:27:05,600 --> 00:27:08,399 Speaker 4: to say no because it is in alignment with what 553 00:27:08,440 --> 00:27:11,959 Speaker 4: I want to do, while fully accepting that my insides 554 00:27:12,040 --> 00:27:14,600 Speaker 4: are turning. And just because my insides are turning, it 555 00:27:14,640 --> 00:27:17,280 Speaker 4: doesn't mean I should change my decision exactly. Just because 556 00:27:17,359 --> 00:27:21,879 Speaker 4: I feel like viscerally ill I saying no, that doesn't 557 00:27:21,920 --> 00:27:24,840 Speaker 4: mean that I should be saying yes. So like working 558 00:27:24,880 --> 00:27:28,200 Speaker 4: through that discomfort, and like with anything, with any practice, 559 00:27:28,600 --> 00:27:32,320 Speaker 4: it gets better. I thought that I would always feel 560 00:27:32,320 --> 00:27:33,880 Speaker 4: like that, and the first few times I. 561 00:27:33,840 --> 00:27:35,399 Speaker 2: Was like, oh my god, what are they going to do? 562 00:27:35,440 --> 00:27:37,000 Speaker 4: What are they going to say? And even if they 563 00:27:37,000 --> 00:27:39,360 Speaker 4: did guilt trip me, I would feel terrible. But then 564 00:27:39,400 --> 00:27:40,919 Speaker 4: you do it, and you do it again, and you 565 00:27:40,960 --> 00:27:42,480 Speaker 4: do it again, and then you realize like the world 566 00:27:42,520 --> 00:27:45,879 Speaker 4: is not going to end. And also, if someone is 567 00:27:45,880 --> 00:27:47,720 Speaker 4: throwing a fit because you're setting a boundary, that is 568 00:27:47,760 --> 00:27:51,040 Speaker 4: a very good sign that you required boundaries. 569 00:27:51,119 --> 00:27:52,400 Speaker 2: Yeah, that you're doing the right thing. 570 00:27:53,080 --> 00:27:55,560 Speaker 1: I love what you said about it just being a muscle, 571 00:27:55,600 --> 00:27:59,639 Speaker 1: because it can feel so foreign and uncomfortable, especially if 572 00:27:59,640 --> 00:28:02,560 Speaker 1: you're a covering people pleaser. But the more that we 573 00:28:02,720 --> 00:28:06,480 Speaker 1: practice honoring that internal compass of desire, the easier it's 574 00:28:06,480 --> 00:28:06,880 Speaker 1: going to get. 575 00:28:07,800 --> 00:28:10,560 Speaker 3: Okay, so your kids are eight and ten. There, I'm 576 00:28:10,600 --> 00:28:15,080 Speaker 3: wondering how you navigate having a conversation with them about 577 00:28:15,680 --> 00:28:20,520 Speaker 3: Santa's work versus your work, because you're really doing quite 578 00:28:20,560 --> 00:28:24,959 Speaker 3: a lot and no one is giving Libby credit. Everybody's 579 00:28:25,000 --> 00:28:26,080 Speaker 3: crediting Santa. 580 00:28:26,119 --> 00:28:28,480 Speaker 2: The patriarch stends all the way to the north Pole. 581 00:28:28,560 --> 00:28:32,280 Speaker 4: Oh my goodness, we could do a whole podcast on 582 00:28:33,040 --> 00:28:37,000 Speaker 4: the North Pole Santa, and like missus classes that is 583 00:28:37,040 --> 00:28:40,160 Speaker 4: a representation of the entire patriarchy. 584 00:28:40,320 --> 00:28:43,440 Speaker 5: Someone should do a cartoon movie about that. Oh my goodness, Like, 585 00:28:44,160 --> 00:28:46,479 Speaker 5: let me do a short film. He gets all the credit. 586 00:28:46,600 --> 00:28:50,640 Speaker 5: He shows up one day and gets snacks the whole way. 587 00:28:51,280 --> 00:28:54,640 Speaker 4: Everyone's like, yeah, Santa, clap for him, and he just 588 00:28:54,640 --> 00:28:56,680 Speaker 4: gets snacks and he gets to like be the good guy, 589 00:28:57,040 --> 00:29:01,520 Speaker 4: and she's doing for me and managing all the elves. Wow, 590 00:29:01,560 --> 00:29:04,360 Speaker 4: it's unbelievable. And so I try to be really conscientious 591 00:29:04,480 --> 00:29:07,840 Speaker 4: of doing things with them around and explaining to them, 592 00:29:07,920 --> 00:29:10,840 Speaker 4: like how much work things are. It is a joy. 593 00:29:11,440 --> 00:29:13,760 Speaker 4: I love being able to do it. I love being 594 00:29:13,800 --> 00:29:16,520 Speaker 4: able to shower you with like love and gifts and 595 00:29:16,600 --> 00:29:19,719 Speaker 4: all the things. But it is work and it takes energy. 596 00:29:20,400 --> 00:29:24,080 Speaker 4: So this year my husband and I started doing fair 597 00:29:24,120 --> 00:29:26,240 Speaker 4: play more so. Evrovsky wrote a book called fair play, 598 00:29:26,240 --> 00:29:27,840 Speaker 4: which is all about like the division of labor and 599 00:29:27,880 --> 00:29:29,840 Speaker 4: how you share different tasks. And so we sort of 600 00:29:29,880 --> 00:29:33,280 Speaker 4: set the cards out at the beginning of the school 601 00:29:33,320 --> 00:29:35,240 Speaker 4: year last year and we're like, what are we gonna 602 00:29:35,960 --> 00:29:37,400 Speaker 4: how we're going to change things. And one of the 603 00:29:37,440 --> 00:29:40,680 Speaker 4: biggest changes is that my husband now does the admin 604 00:29:40,920 --> 00:29:44,640 Speaker 4: for our family. So he's signing the kids up for sports, 605 00:29:44,640 --> 00:29:46,760 Speaker 4: he's signing their agendas each night, like he's doing the 606 00:29:46,760 --> 00:29:49,880 Speaker 4: communication back and forth with the school. It is just 607 00:29:50,000 --> 00:29:52,800 Speaker 4: as amazing as it sounds like. It's a lot of work, 608 00:29:53,040 --> 00:29:55,720 Speaker 4: so great, Like I'm just like the dad now, Like 609 00:29:55,800 --> 00:29:57,720 Speaker 4: I show up to soccer practice, I'm like, my husband 610 00:29:57,760 --> 00:30:00,480 Speaker 4: told me it's this field. Like it's like a joke 611 00:30:00,520 --> 00:30:02,680 Speaker 4: that I'm just like the mom that's like out of 612 00:30:02,800 --> 00:30:05,600 Speaker 4: touch with what's happening, and it's exceptional. 613 00:30:05,760 --> 00:30:08,320 Speaker 1: I just love you going into that soccer field and 614 00:30:08,360 --> 00:30:11,080 Speaker 1: like breaking down stereotypes, Like I just love that. 615 00:30:11,320 --> 00:30:13,720 Speaker 4: It's just like and now the moms will be like 616 00:30:13,760 --> 00:30:15,600 Speaker 4: they'll ask me something and they'll be like, oh wait, 617 00:30:15,640 --> 00:30:18,280 Speaker 4: never mind, will ask Greg And I'm like, good you 618 00:30:18,280 --> 00:30:20,960 Speaker 4: you go ask, can't ask. That is how it's gonna be. 619 00:30:21,080 --> 00:30:23,680 Speaker 4: But what's cool is my kids. Well, like let's say 620 00:30:23,680 --> 00:30:26,240 Speaker 4: they're packing their agenda to go to school in the morning, 621 00:30:26,360 --> 00:30:28,480 Speaker 4: They'll be like, oh, Dad, forgot to sign my agenda, 622 00:30:29,320 --> 00:30:33,240 Speaker 4: And it just shows that they see that it's not 623 00:30:33,360 --> 00:30:35,440 Speaker 4: just my job. And so it's like the same with 624 00:30:35,480 --> 00:30:39,480 Speaker 4: the holidays. What's dad's job, what's mom's job, what's your job? Kids? 625 00:30:40,440 --> 00:30:43,240 Speaker 3: Okay, I need to know what are you both excited 626 00:30:43,280 --> 00:30:44,479 Speaker 3: for this holiday season. 627 00:30:45,120 --> 00:30:48,120 Speaker 1: I feel conflicted about this whole conversation because I know 628 00:30:48,200 --> 00:30:51,320 Speaker 1: that it can sound very heavy or like you can 629 00:30:51,320 --> 00:30:53,400 Speaker 1: hear the frustration as we're talking about it. But at 630 00:30:53,400 --> 00:30:56,160 Speaker 1: the same time, like nobody loves the holidays more than 631 00:30:56,200 --> 00:30:56,640 Speaker 1: this girl. 632 00:30:56,760 --> 00:30:58,400 Speaker 2: I love the holidays. 633 00:30:58,520 --> 00:30:59,440 Speaker 4: I know same. 634 00:30:59,600 --> 00:31:02,080 Speaker 1: I I start watching Christmas movies in like the next 635 00:31:02,080 --> 00:31:04,200 Speaker 1: two weeks and I'll be watching them through January. 636 00:31:05,360 --> 00:31:09,240 Speaker 2: I just need to, honestly, I need to honor myself. 637 00:31:09,320 --> 00:31:11,760 Speaker 1: I need to like put my money where my mouth 638 00:31:11,840 --> 00:31:13,800 Speaker 1: is and start doing the things that I've said I'm 639 00:31:13,840 --> 00:31:17,080 Speaker 1: gonna do. So I think when I think about, like, 640 00:31:17,840 --> 00:31:19,720 Speaker 1: what are the things that are going to allow me 641 00:31:19,800 --> 00:31:23,520 Speaker 1: to enjoy the holidays? Setting a two gift limit this 642 00:31:23,560 --> 00:31:26,280 Speaker 1: is something that my friends have talked about, like setting 643 00:31:26,280 --> 00:31:28,640 Speaker 1: a two gift limit for your kids, talked about like 644 00:31:28,800 --> 00:31:32,640 Speaker 1: ordering food, talked about even like setting responsibilities and roles 645 00:31:32,640 --> 00:31:35,680 Speaker 1: for family members. I'm looking forward to the holidays. I 646 00:31:35,760 --> 00:31:37,760 Speaker 1: just need to need to do it right and like 647 00:31:38,320 --> 00:31:39,080 Speaker 1: honor my needs. 648 00:31:39,480 --> 00:31:40,000 Speaker 3: I love it. 649 00:31:40,040 --> 00:31:43,040 Speaker 4: I love that I'm looking forward to food. I love 650 00:31:43,080 --> 00:31:46,720 Speaker 4: food so much. Yeah, And I am becoming more okay 651 00:31:46,720 --> 00:31:49,320 Speaker 4: with like not being in charge of all the food. Right, So, 652 00:31:49,400 --> 00:31:52,360 Speaker 4: whether it's catering or ordering in or being like, hey, 653 00:31:52,360 --> 00:31:55,360 Speaker 4: it's Pollock style, everyone brings something, yeah, and being clear 654 00:31:55,400 --> 00:31:57,080 Speaker 4: about what I want, Like I know in the past 655 00:31:57,120 --> 00:31:58,320 Speaker 4: my sister in law's been like, what do you want 656 00:31:58,320 --> 00:31:59,920 Speaker 4: me to bring? And I'd be like whatever, And now 657 00:32:00,440 --> 00:32:03,840 Speaker 4: I'm like, can you please bring your pe cheese and 658 00:32:03,880 --> 00:32:07,400 Speaker 4: potato castrole, like I desperately need that and an apple pie? Right, 659 00:32:07,480 --> 00:32:10,600 Speaker 4: Like I like just being clear about those things. I yeah, 660 00:32:10,640 --> 00:32:13,160 Speaker 4: like food and people. It's like I want to be 661 00:32:13,240 --> 00:32:15,120 Speaker 4: with my people. And so I am going to the 662 00:32:15,120 --> 00:32:19,680 Speaker 4: holidays with like a less is more yes attitude of Okay, 663 00:32:19,720 --> 00:32:22,160 Speaker 4: maybe we're not going to do the breakfast with Santa, 664 00:32:22,200 --> 00:32:24,640 Speaker 4: and we're not going to do like the cutting down 665 00:32:24,640 --> 00:32:26,680 Speaker 4: the tree together, and we're not going to do this. 666 00:32:27,160 --> 00:32:30,080 Speaker 4: But the things we are going to do, let's do 667 00:32:30,120 --> 00:32:33,440 Speaker 4: them really well, and like, let's enjoy it and let's 668 00:32:33,480 --> 00:32:35,280 Speaker 4: be present and that kind of stuff. 669 00:32:35,560 --> 00:32:38,600 Speaker 3: How about you, Daniel, Well, I have two things. One 670 00:32:38,720 --> 00:32:41,320 Speaker 3: is my grandmother's mots ball soup. I crave it all 671 00:32:41,360 --> 00:32:44,200 Speaker 3: the time, and no DELI can ever make it the 672 00:32:44,240 --> 00:32:45,360 Speaker 3: way my grandma makes it. 673 00:32:45,760 --> 00:32:48,000 Speaker 4: But I want a grandma like your grandma more than 674 00:32:48,040 --> 00:32:48,280 Speaker 4: you know. 675 00:32:48,840 --> 00:32:52,360 Speaker 3: Libby, you were invited any holiday, am I, Oh my god, 676 00:32:52,400 --> 00:32:55,320 Speaker 3: with your kids. She has an open door policy. 677 00:32:55,480 --> 00:32:55,960 Speaker 4: We're coming. 678 00:32:56,040 --> 00:32:58,440 Speaker 3: She has extra seats sometimes that she just leaves open 679 00:32:58,480 --> 00:33:00,800 Speaker 3: in case anyone wants to come. So sweet, So you're 680 00:33:00,840 --> 00:33:03,280 Speaker 3: so welcome. Otherwise I can try and freeze it and 681 00:33:03,600 --> 00:33:06,560 Speaker 3: send it to you. I'm doing something this year. I 682 00:33:06,680 --> 00:33:10,280 Speaker 3: realized that as I've gotten busier and busier in life, 683 00:33:10,800 --> 00:33:14,160 Speaker 3: I am so me centric right now in my life, 684 00:33:14,800 --> 00:33:18,680 Speaker 3: and I am the happiest when I'm like you centric. 685 00:33:19,200 --> 00:33:22,640 Speaker 3: And so I convinced my parents and my brother that 686 00:33:22,680 --> 00:33:24,880 Speaker 3: we're all going to be of service this holiday season 687 00:33:24,920 --> 00:33:28,320 Speaker 3: instead of getting any gifts. And I think it's going 688 00:33:28,400 --> 00:33:29,400 Speaker 3: to feel really nice. 689 00:33:29,720 --> 00:33:30,080 Speaker 2: It is. 690 00:33:30,360 --> 00:33:33,760 Speaker 4: I haven't even mentioned this, but like five years ago. 691 00:33:33,840 --> 00:33:37,880 Speaker 4: One thing my family did so the adults rather than 692 00:33:37,960 --> 00:33:41,080 Speaker 4: buying gifts for each other or even doing a secret Sanna, Yeah, 693 00:33:41,200 --> 00:33:42,160 Speaker 4: we do an experience. 694 00:33:42,760 --> 00:33:44,960 Speaker 2: So we're all. 695 00:33:44,600 --> 00:33:47,080 Speaker 4: Going to go to the theater together, or we're all 696 00:33:47,120 --> 00:33:50,080 Speaker 4: going to do an event together or in activity and 697 00:33:50,120 --> 00:33:52,640 Speaker 4: you remember and then you actually get to be with 698 00:33:52,680 --> 00:33:55,280 Speaker 4: one another and it's less work. 699 00:33:55,600 --> 00:33:56,360 Speaker 2: And less money. 700 00:33:57,160 --> 00:34:00,280 Speaker 1: I'm thinking, I don't need more things at this in 701 00:34:00,280 --> 00:34:03,280 Speaker 1: my life. I don't want more possessions. I say the 702 00:34:03,400 --> 00:34:06,880 Speaker 1: time and the memories are more important. Libya, I wanted 703 00:34:06,920 --> 00:34:11,440 Speaker 1: to ask you about grief during the holidays. I'm thinking 704 00:34:11,440 --> 00:34:13,879 Speaker 1: of all my friends who've also lost parents or people 705 00:34:13,880 --> 00:34:16,680 Speaker 1: are really important to them. What are the things that 706 00:34:16,719 --> 00:34:19,440 Speaker 1: you do to take care of yourself from a grief perspective. 707 00:34:19,680 --> 00:34:22,160 Speaker 1: Are there any rituals that you have that help you 708 00:34:22,600 --> 00:34:24,719 Speaker 1: honor those family members who are no longer with us 709 00:34:24,760 --> 00:34:27,160 Speaker 1: During the holidays, I'm. 710 00:34:27,000 --> 00:34:31,000 Speaker 4: A sad person during the holidays. I feel all the feelings. 711 00:34:31,080 --> 00:34:34,440 Speaker 4: I mean, I'm a deep feeler anyway, but the holidays 712 00:34:34,520 --> 00:34:36,839 Speaker 4: highlights both for me, right Like, I feel the good 713 00:34:36,880 --> 00:34:39,839 Speaker 4: feelings really good, and I feel the hard feelings. And 714 00:34:39,920 --> 00:34:43,600 Speaker 4: so I know you're referencing family members who aren't with us, 715 00:34:43,600 --> 00:34:45,200 Speaker 4: and that is a huge grief, you know, I don't 716 00:34:45,200 --> 00:34:47,759 Speaker 4: have my dad anymore. But there's also a grief that 717 00:34:47,800 --> 00:34:53,120 Speaker 4: a lot of people feel myself included around maybe their 718 00:34:53,160 --> 00:34:55,840 Speaker 4: family in general, like maybe it not looking like what 719 00:34:55,880 --> 00:34:58,560 Speaker 4: they thought it was going to look like, or maybe 720 00:34:58,560 --> 00:35:01,880 Speaker 4: some toxicity in their family, or you know, some estrangement 721 00:35:01,960 --> 00:35:04,359 Speaker 4: and their family with like parents or siblings and things 722 00:35:04,400 --> 00:35:06,840 Speaker 4: like that. And so I can grieve a lot of 723 00:35:06,840 --> 00:35:08,719 Speaker 4: different things during the holidays, and I think that's a 724 00:35:08,760 --> 00:35:10,520 Speaker 4: common thread for a lot of people, whether they have 725 00:35:10,560 --> 00:35:13,440 Speaker 4: a similar scenario to me or not. And what I 726 00:35:13,480 --> 00:35:16,120 Speaker 4: try to do is get ahead of the game. I 727 00:35:16,200 --> 00:35:20,360 Speaker 4: try to build in moments with people who I know 728 00:35:20,640 --> 00:35:25,440 Speaker 4: are going to like fill my heart. So one practical 729 00:35:25,480 --> 00:35:28,160 Speaker 4: thing I do is I stay off of social media 730 00:35:28,160 --> 00:35:31,319 Speaker 4: as much as I can, especially on like Christmas Day, 731 00:35:31,480 --> 00:35:34,080 Speaker 4: like on the days where I know everyone's going to 732 00:35:34,120 --> 00:35:36,040 Speaker 4: be posting with their families, like I won't even look 733 00:35:36,360 --> 00:35:39,520 Speaker 4: because I know it'll just like tear my heart out. 734 00:35:39,920 --> 00:35:42,239 Speaker 4: My journal, so I'm like writing down the things I 735 00:35:42,280 --> 00:35:45,319 Speaker 4: am grateful for, whether it's the traditions that I'm cultivating 736 00:35:45,600 --> 00:35:48,680 Speaker 4: or memories that we're making or things that I enjoy, 737 00:35:49,320 --> 00:35:52,040 Speaker 4: and so I just try to like build things in 738 00:35:52,320 --> 00:35:55,319 Speaker 4: that help me to focus on the good that I 739 00:35:55,360 --> 00:35:58,719 Speaker 4: do have in my life and honor the really hard things. 740 00:35:58,760 --> 00:36:01,640 Speaker 4: With my dad, for example, when I was cleaning out 741 00:36:01,640 --> 00:36:03,759 Speaker 4: his apartment after he died, you know, like there's so 742 00:36:03,880 --> 00:36:05,600 Speaker 4: much stuff, and I'm like, I can't keep all this stuff, 743 00:36:05,600 --> 00:36:07,000 Speaker 4: Like I don't really know what to do. But I 744 00:36:07,040 --> 00:36:09,160 Speaker 4: was really intentional about a few of the things that 745 00:36:09,200 --> 00:36:11,480 Speaker 4: I kept, and they were like dishes in the kitchen. 746 00:36:12,000 --> 00:36:15,160 Speaker 4: There's like a particular I think it was a milk 747 00:36:15,280 --> 00:36:18,520 Speaker 4: jug and it's got this like nineteen seventies pattern on it, 748 00:36:18,600 --> 00:36:20,880 Speaker 4: and so that has become like our gravy boat, and 749 00:36:20,920 --> 00:36:22,560 Speaker 4: I bring that out during the holidays. It's like a 750 00:36:22,600 --> 00:36:24,839 Speaker 4: really specific thing. Like it almost like feels like he's 751 00:36:24,880 --> 00:36:26,799 Speaker 4: like at the table with us a little bit. Yeah, 752 00:36:26,880 --> 00:36:30,200 Speaker 4: And so we can sometimes either just get stuck in 753 00:36:30,239 --> 00:36:32,840 Speaker 4: the hard and like focusing on the hard or just 754 00:36:32,920 --> 00:36:35,359 Speaker 4: try to stay so busy we don't think about it. 755 00:36:36,280 --> 00:36:38,479 Speaker 4: Not feeling the hard things doesn't make them not come. 756 00:36:38,840 --> 00:36:41,320 Speaker 4: Taking time to actually honor that, like to honor the 757 00:36:41,400 --> 00:36:44,399 Speaker 4: difficult feelings while also then like looking to the good 758 00:36:44,440 --> 00:36:47,520 Speaker 4: and knowing that two things can be true at the 759 00:36:47,560 --> 00:36:48,080 Speaker 4: same time. 760 00:36:48,480 --> 00:36:52,839 Speaker 2: That's very powerful. Libby, Thank you so much for coming 761 00:36:52,880 --> 00:36:53,760 Speaker 2: on the right side. 762 00:36:53,840 --> 00:36:55,400 Speaker 4: Thank you for having me. This is such a good 763 00:36:55,440 --> 00:36:57,200 Speaker 4: conversation I could to just go on and on. 764 00:36:57,680 --> 00:37:01,280 Speaker 3: Thanks for joining us today, Libby. 765 00:37:01,760 --> 00:37:05,200 Speaker 1: Libby Ward is a digital creator, speaker, and mental health advocate. 766 00:37:05,360 --> 00:37:07,400 Speaker 1: You can find her on Instagram at Diary of an 767 00:37:07,440 --> 00:37:13,680 Speaker 1: Honest Mom. 768 00:37:13,719 --> 00:37:16,160 Speaker 3: That's it for today's show. Tomorrow, we're popping off with 769 00:37:16,200 --> 00:37:18,960 Speaker 3: comedian and content creator Rachel Samples. 770 00:37:20,040 --> 00:37:23,600 Speaker 1: Join the conversation using hashtag the bright Side and connect 771 00:37:23,600 --> 00:37:26,839 Speaker 1: with us on social media at Hello Sunshine on Instagram 772 00:37:26,880 --> 00:37:30,080 Speaker 1: and at the bright Side Pod on TikTok oh, and 773 00:37:30,080 --> 00:37:32,680 Speaker 1: feel free to tag us at Simone Voice and at 774 00:37:32,800 --> 00:37:33,800 Speaker 1: danielle Robe. 775 00:37:34,360 --> 00:37:37,320 Speaker 3: Listen and follow The bright Side on the iHeartRadio app, 776 00:37:37,360 --> 00:37:40,040 Speaker 3: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. 777 00:37:40,400 --> 00:37:45,120 Speaker 1: See you tomorrow, folks, Keep looking on the bright side.