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Speaker 1: Hey, this is Annie and Samantha and welcome to Stephane.

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Speaker 1: Never told your protection of I Heart Radio. Today it

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Speaker 1: is time for another female first, which means we are

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Speaker 1: once again joined by our friend and co worker Eves. Hello. Eve, Hello, Yeah, Eves.

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Speaker 1: What's that's up? Mm hmm, what's up? We just had

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Speaker 1: a very rousing conversation about Urban Lessons the movie and

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Speaker 1: now I yes, the movie you and now I'm very,

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Speaker 1: very determined to see it. It took ease to convince you,

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Speaker 1: because when I was saying it, I was like, uh,

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Speaker 1: it's bad. Yeah, yeah, I don't think. I said, uh,

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Speaker 1: you might, you can do without it. I think that

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Speaker 1: it was a fair point about it being like, uh,

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Speaker 1: they tried to be screamed, but it didn't. They all brands.

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Speaker 1: When I was watching it, I was also thinking that

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Speaker 1: it was a very very uninspiring version of seven just

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Speaker 1: because of the theme. I mean, it wasn't the topic,

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Speaker 1: the plot or anything like that, just just the basis

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Speaker 1: of like having the killer be a person who followed

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Speaker 1: this very specific um thing that was urban legends. And

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Speaker 1: I think that's fun already because urban legends are like

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Speaker 1: just like a fascinating thing that I mean because they

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Speaker 1: are urban legends, that's what they are. There, men spread

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Speaker 1: and nobody knows whether they happen or not. Um. But yeah,

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Speaker 1: it's a fun time. Like I would recommend watching it

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Speaker 1: once and never again. Such a specific review. I was

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Speaker 1: gonna say, the female lead and that one, and she's

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Speaker 1: actually in Supernatural. She's the woman who avenges her daughter.

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Speaker 1: Oh kills all the angels trying to avenge. It's her

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Speaker 1: And and I couldn't remember where I had new yor firm.

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Speaker 1: This is my things. I connect people from different movies

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Speaker 1: to different shows. I love that. Yeah I did that.

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Speaker 1: I did that with I did that with like three

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Speaker 1: people in that movie. I was like, oh my gosh,

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Speaker 1: that person looked so familiar, so familiar. Because I'm already

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Speaker 1: bad at I'm really bad at remembering faces and putting

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Speaker 1: faces with names. I can't. I'm not that great remembering names,

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Speaker 1: so I'm the same way. Obviously, I don't know her name.

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Speaker 1: I just know what she was in. I can tell

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Speaker 1: you what other stuff she has been and that's about it.

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Speaker 1: But yeah, I was doing that. I was like, that

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Speaker 1: person is on that, oh, and that person is on that.

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Speaker 1: But I was doing that again with Urban Legends, because

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Speaker 1: we said Naxima girl, that's my reference for the if

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Speaker 1: you don't know, uh, the villain. Yeah, oh wait, I knew.

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Speaker 1: I was about to say, like, I've never seen this movie,

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Speaker 1: but I remember the cover in the description because I

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Speaker 1: was just telling Eaves there was like a point, a

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Speaker 1: turning point in my life where I tried to buy

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Speaker 1: Urban Legends when I was nine years old. My mom

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Speaker 1: made me turn it back in, so I never got

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Speaker 1: to see it. Um and I remember thinking it was

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Speaker 1: her just from that briefly, you know, I bet she did. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it's a good laugh. It's a good laugh. It's not

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Speaker 1: that scary, sir. If you're looking for an actual scare,

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Speaker 1: there's some gory stuff I guess right air, but it's

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Speaker 1: not truly scary. It's just mostly funny. I feel like

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Speaker 1: those are all those little slash reflex though. Yeah, really scary.

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Speaker 1: They just kind of they chase each other. Yeah, pretty

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Speaker 1: much them. Yeah, some of them can be pretty scary.

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Speaker 1: But I I love this. I feel like Sminty reviews

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Speaker 1: bad Horror Movie. It should be a new segment. Definitely.

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Speaker 1: I am here that I was gonna say it easy

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Speaker 1: will be a part of that as well. So every

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Speaker 1: female first from now on starts with the mini review.

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Speaker 1: I have a bad horror movie, but yes, we are

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Speaker 1: here to talk about female first. Who did you bring

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Speaker 1: for us Today's Today we're talking about Kna Yasui. Sokna

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Speaker 1: Yasui is the first Japanese woman to earn a doctorate

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Speaker 1: in science. UM. So that is also like, as we

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Speaker 1: always put disclaimers at the top of it, um, something

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Speaker 1: that is like the history of education and women's education

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Speaker 1: in Japan is very long and detailed, and of course

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Speaker 1: we won't be able to get into all of that today,

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Speaker 1: but just like I think there are a lot of

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Speaker 1: first that I've come across that are kind of like

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Speaker 1: the first person to get a PhD. And the first

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Speaker 1: person to get a doctorate in this thing, or the

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Speaker 1: first person to get a bachelor's degree. And obviously a

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Speaker 1: lot of that is centered around Western education, and a

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Speaker 1: lot of these things happened after Western education evolved in

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Speaker 1: Eastern countries, and this is one of those cases when,

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Speaker 1: as a lot of sources will put it, um, Japan

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Speaker 1: was quote unquote modernizing. I don't technically like, I don't

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Speaker 1: really like that phrasing. But just as you know, western

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Speaker 1: um education was coming to Japan. UM. This is one

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Speaker 1: of those cases as well. And so Kno Yahsui was

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Speaker 1: the first woman to earn a doctorate in science, and

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Speaker 1: she put in a lot of work. Um, she wrote

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Speaker 1: a lot of papers, and she did a lot research

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Speaker 1: and UM there were other people who had gotten bachelor's

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Speaker 1: degrees and then there were people after her um to

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Speaker 1: continue to get doctorate degrees in science. But there were barriers,

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Speaker 1: there were cultural changes happening at the time. And that's

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Speaker 1: the story. Yeah, that's that's the story that we're going

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Speaker 1: to get into today. Yes, And you know, one of

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Speaker 1: my favorite things about this story is, and I mean

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Speaker 1: this as the highest compliment I truly do, but I

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Speaker 1: love when people specialize in things that are so specific

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Speaker 1: you've never really thought about, Like, oh, I'm writing a

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Speaker 1: a d page essay on the mold that grows on

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Speaker 1: the turtle shell if you leave it in a cave

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Speaker 1: ninety days or whatever. I'm like, this is the best.

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Speaker 1: I'm so glad that someone is passionate about this. I mean,

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Speaker 1: with her specially discovered so many things, so going. But yeah,

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Speaker 1: it definitely reminded me of coming into science class and

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Speaker 1: talking about photosynthesis, and I'm like, what, what's what's happening? Who?

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Speaker 1: Who did this? What? I was thinking back to all

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Speaker 1: of those times, um in the past where they would

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Speaker 1: have science fairs in school and you would have a

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Speaker 1: little trifle boards and try to an experiment, and I

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Speaker 1: remember kind of being I don't know if force is

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Speaker 1: the right word, but like really feeling obligated to do

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Speaker 1: those science fairs, even though science wasn't a thing that

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Speaker 1: I really, you know, was that into or cared that

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Speaker 1: much about experimentation in But I guess you know, you're

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Speaker 1: experimenting yourself when you're in those years and trying different

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Speaker 1: topics and and feels that you might want to go into.

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Speaker 1: But all of us to say to that, I mean,

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Speaker 1: I don't I don't really understand what Kono Yasui was doing.

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Speaker 1: Like a lot of that that's all foreign to me.

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Speaker 1: Um So, I mean all of those research papers, all

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Speaker 1: of that is a lot more detail than I actually understand.

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Speaker 1: Oh no, you're telling me, you're not going to explain

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Speaker 1: I have so many doctorate papers out there. You're not

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Speaker 1: going to read the mountain cell. It's like dissected one

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Speaker 1: of the things. I am absolutely not. You just have

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Speaker 1: the You just gave me a moment where I had

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Speaker 1: a flashback to one of my science fars projects where

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Speaker 1: I didn't know what to do. So my teacher gave

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Speaker 1: me these pe shoot plants and I'll talk about radiation

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Speaker 1: and UV lights and I cannot remember to this day

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Speaker 1: what it was. But I won. I don't want and

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Speaker 1: then the plants died. You're welcome. That's the whole story.

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Speaker 1: I can't remember what it was. I don't know what

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Speaker 1: I did. I just remember they were like, this is

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Speaker 1: a kid, do it? Hey? You won. That was a

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Speaker 1: real roller coaster emotion. You're You're welcome because I still

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Speaker 1: like I just had a flashback up and two I

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Speaker 1: was like, what was that? Yeah, but this is what

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Speaker 1: this flinds me of. See. I loved science and I

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Speaker 1: love science fairs and I was really competitive, but I

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Speaker 1: no joke. On more than one occasion I went to

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Speaker 1: two projects instead of one because I would get so

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Speaker 1: enthusiastic and I would get disqualified because and then one

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Speaker 1: of them would win, and they'd be like, if only

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Speaker 1: you hadn't been disqualified, this would have been the winner.

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Speaker 1: Like I have some memories. So wait, you were because

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Speaker 1: you did too, and put both of those things in

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Speaker 1: a fair like you couldn't have more than one? Yeah,

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Speaker 1: only why is that? Everybody? Yeah, everyone else could have

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Speaker 1: done too. I was stopping him as a person who

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Speaker 1: did when but barely did her own project. Oh wow,

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Speaker 1: I love that you're coming at me with this project.

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Speaker 1: You can't remember because you one? All right, anyway, results

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Speaker 1: two blows. Let's get into Let's get into the story here, okay,

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Speaker 1: So we'll take it all the way back to when

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Speaker 1: Yasui was born, which was in eighteen eighty and sambo Matsu,

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Speaker 1: which was a port tongue in Kagawa Prefecture. She was

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Speaker 1: one of nine children, and she grew up in the

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Speaker 1: Meiji Era, which was the period in Japanese history from

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Speaker 1: eighteen sixty eight to nineteen twelve. And like I said earlier,

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Speaker 1: this was a time where there was a lot of political, economic,

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Speaker 1: and social chain happening, a lot of upheaval, a lot

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Speaker 1: of reform was happening um that was influenced by the West,

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Speaker 1: and education was made compulsory, and the feudal system of

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Speaker 1: government was abolished, and there were all of these big

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Speaker 1: major changes happening, that was affecting the way that people

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Speaker 1: were operating in their day to day lives, that was

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Speaker 1: affecting the hierarchies that were in place, and was affecting

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Speaker 1: the way that people were interacting with each other as well.

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Speaker 1: And education was a big part of this in those changes.

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Speaker 1: And from a young age, kon Yasi herself was really

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Speaker 1: interested in academic study and her parents would encourage that

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Speaker 1: as well, and early on her father gave her this

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Speaker 1: book called An Encouragement of Learning, which was a book

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Speaker 1: by Yukichi Fukuzawa, and Fukuzawa was an influential thought leader

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Speaker 1: at the time. He wrote a bunch of stuff. People

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Speaker 1: followed his writings in nineteenth century Japan, and he wrote

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Speaker 1: about things like education, like equality, and other social and

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Speaker 1: political topics, and he was an advocate of reform and

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Speaker 1: he brought Western ideas to Japan. Um he found at

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Speaker 1: Kao University in Tokyo, and in the eighteen sixties he

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Speaker 1: reorganized the school to really focus on Western studies, and

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Speaker 1: so An Encouragement of Learning is the seventeen volume series

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Speaker 1: that in which he emphasized the importance of education and

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Speaker 1: put in there some sort of rejections of the contemporary

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Speaker 1: social hierarchies that were in place. And he also and

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Speaker 1: it argued that education was key to gaining personal independence

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Speaker 1: and international independence. So uh very indicative of the thought

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Speaker 1: patterns and the changes that were happening in the society

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Speaker 1: at the time. And Yester he was also interested in

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Speaker 1: Japanese and Chinese history. So she did well in school overall,

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Speaker 1: but some of her favorite topics were mass in science.

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Speaker 1: In she enrolled at the Tokyo Women's Higher Normal School.

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Speaker 1: That that school changed names a few times over the

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Speaker 1: course of his existence, but she was a science major,

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Speaker 1: and she graduated in nineteen o two and began teaching

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Speaker 1: at a girls school. So a few years later she

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Speaker 1: became the only science research student UM when the new

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Speaker 1: research department was established at the Women's Higher Normal School,

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Speaker 1: and she was this is this is when you start

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Speaker 1: getting the stuff that I understand. I am not well

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Speaker 1: versed in um animal anatomy or a or biology already

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Speaker 1: in those things. But she was encouraged to study the

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Speaker 1: carp's Waberian apparatus. So the Liberian apparatus is a group

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Speaker 1: of small bones that's in the fish that helps with

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Speaker 1: his hearing. She published her findings in that first paper.

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Speaker 1: Any Um, looking at watching you right now, you're like, yeah,

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Speaker 1: that sounds about right. So thank you for that approval.

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Speaker 1: I'm like, I can't deny. I mean, if you tell

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Speaker 1: me that's what it is, then I believe you. Is

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Speaker 1: it sounds right to me. She published her findings in

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Speaker 1: her first paper, Webber's organ of Carpet Fish, in the

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Speaker 1: Once she completed that program in nineteen o seven, she

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Speaker 1: in terms of getting really specific here, Like when you

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Speaker 1: think that's pretty admirable, Like because we don't all find

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Speaker 1: But she definitely UM seems like the type of person

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Speaker 1: I love it. I love it so much. Legitimately, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: that I don't understand it all, and I'm like, wow, cool, yeah,

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Speaker 1: about like I have. I have a friend who she

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Speaker 1: has been in her doctorate program for a biology thing.

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Speaker 1: You told me four times what it was. It kind

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Speaker 1: of tried to tell me what she's working on, and

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Speaker 1: Can you read it to be a good because I'm

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Speaker 1: so confused about what is happening. Yeah, yeah, and I

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Speaker 1: don't require so much detailed research, where you're just like,

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Speaker 1: not gonna understand it. I'm going to forget everything you

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Speaker 1: over um. But those are the joys of like having

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Speaker 1: in this lifetime. Yeah, we have a little bit more

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Speaker 1: for you listeners, but first we have a quick break

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Speaker 1: for a word from responsor. I back, thank you sponsor.

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Speaker 1: So she decided you want to do this independent research,

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Speaker 1: and she began documenting the anatomy of the aquatic fern

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Speaker 1: Salvenia natons, which is really pretty I feel like I

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Speaker 1: Salvenia naton's, yeah, should be a D and D character,

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Speaker 1: Like there you go in aquatic you have done that's

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Speaker 1: sparkly plant that hills something so yeah okay yeah, or

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Speaker 1: something right, yeah, it's not as pretty so in her research,

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Speaker 1: her research on Somebody in Natons was published in a

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Speaker 1: a bachelor's degree was Sute matsu Yamakawa, who graduated from

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Speaker 1: Vassar College in the US in eighteen eighty two. And

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Speaker 1: percentage who majored in science. And while teaching at the

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Speaker 1: to study overseas. So the Ministry of Education rejected her requests,

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Speaker 1: But regardless, Kenjia Fuji, who was a professor at the

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Speaker 1: and apparently she also had to agree to not marry

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Speaker 1: just so like you wouldn't be out more, too many

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Speaker 1: people wouldn't be out at the same time. Um. But yeah,

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Speaker 1: that's okay, Yeah, yeah, yeah. I saw one bob saying

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Speaker 1: that they did this because she didn't They didn't want

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Speaker 1: And I'm thinking, what what, like none of them that

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Speaker 1: It's odd too that they're like, well, you know, at

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Speaker 1: least according to to these suggestions that they would say,

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Speaker 1: marry or have children. Yeah, there's some kind of disconnect there. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: there's a cognit disiness. Yeah. And it also is I

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Speaker 1: think there's a disconnect to and just kind of wanting

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Speaker 1: and like having this person who you can you can

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Speaker 1: see a little bit of potential win already, but not

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Speaker 1: wanting them to be the person who represented that excellence

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Speaker 1: And in terms of representing the work that she did

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Speaker 1: and that she was a Japanese woman. But it wasn't

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Speaker 1: my decision. Um, it wasn't. It wasn't. Shocker. Yeah, the

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Speaker 1: Ministry of Education eventually did approved the request. Um. But yeah,

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Speaker 1: So in nineteen fourteen she arrived in the US and

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Speaker 1: she continued to research titology in the US at the

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Speaker 1: University of Chicago, and she had planned on study in Germany,

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Speaker 1: and instead she went to Ratcliffe College in Cambridge, where

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Speaker 1: she studied plant tissue under Professor Edward see Jeffrey. So

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Speaker 1: Jeffrey had developed a method for cutting thin slices from

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Speaker 1: heart materials like cold. She kind of followed his that route,

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Speaker 1: and he encouraged her to do research on coal and

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Speaker 1: she pursued those studies, and in nineteen sixteen she went

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Speaker 1: back to Japan and she began teaching at the Women's

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Speaker 1: Higher Normal School and continued her research at Tokyo Imperial University.

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Speaker 1: And at the university she also oversaw the experiments that

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Speaker 1: students were doing for genetics course and she herself went

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Speaker 1: around Japan collecting coal. Um there are accounts of her

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Speaker 1: be able to collect the coal. And at the same

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Speaker 1: time she was still doing psychology and genetics research on plants,

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Speaker 1: and yeah, digging deeper into that research. So over the

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Speaker 1: course of that she classified a bunch of plant fossils

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Speaker 1: and discovered at least six ancient species of plants. Oh

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Speaker 1: that's so cool. Yeah, that's the thing that you're like,

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Speaker 1: I would love to be a part of something that

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Speaker 1: you discovered something, you made these findings and you're attached

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Speaker 1: to I was so dedicated to something that I found

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Speaker 1: something new that you didn't know, which is a whole

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Speaker 1: other thing. But yeah, that was so cool to read

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Speaker 1: about that. And also like just how kind of UH

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Speaker 1: transformed uh and and made changes for about coal and stuff.

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Speaker 1: You're like, whoa, that's like huge proponent to you know,

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Speaker 1: our resources. Mm hm m m hm. Yeah. And I

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Speaker 1: think to also to have things named after you, which

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Speaker 1: yes we did, is really cool. Like, I don't know,

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Speaker 1: I see that. But she's she published her doctoral thesis

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Speaker 1: in that was called Studies on the Structure of Lignite,

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Speaker 1: brown Coal and Potuminous Coal in Japan. It was a

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Speaker 1: collection of nine papers, and she earned her doctoral degree

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Speaker 1: from in science from the Tokyo Imperial University. Right was

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Speaker 1: this their backtracking and being like, oh, of course we've

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Speaker 1: always encouraged her to be a scientist. We knew she

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Speaker 1: was going to be genius, so look how cool we are. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: she she earned it, so that made her the first

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Speaker 1: Japanese woman to earn a doctorate in science. And yeah,

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Speaker 1: she she helped elucidate the car organization process by which

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Speaker 1: plants turned into coal. We do have some more for

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Speaker 1: you listeners, but first we have one more quick break

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Speaker 1: for word from responsor and we're back. So yeah, she

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Speaker 1: did a lot of research papers and had a lot

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Speaker 1: of influence in that field. She was also involved in editing, accounting,

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Speaker 1: and production at the journal Sutologia, and after the atomic

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Speaker 1: bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki, she researched plants that were

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Speaker 1: exposed to radioactive material and after World War Two she

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Speaker 1: also advocated for the establishment of a national research university

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Speaker 1: for women. She and took haw Curoda, who was the

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Speaker 1: first woman in Japan to earn a bachelor science and

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Speaker 1: the second woman to earn a doctorate in science. They

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Speaker 1: established a scholarships to support women who worked in the

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Speaker 1: natural sciences. But at the same time, Yessus kind of

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Speaker 1: described as not being a fan of putting women's work

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Speaker 1: in the category of its own, because in her view,

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Speaker 1: that would just reinforce the inequality and it would mean

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Speaker 1: that their work was not being held to the same standard,

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Speaker 1: and that's not really how she wanted, in her her

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Speaker 1: view and her purview things to work in the people

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Speaker 1: that she was teaching to think about their work. And

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Speaker 1: she also valued the longevity of her work over recognition.

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Speaker 1: So she wasn't that hot on the fame. She wasn't

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Speaker 1: that hot on she well, I guess it wasn't the

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Speaker 1: most important thing to her to be recognized for the

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Speaker 1: work that she was doing. But even so, she definitely

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Speaker 1: had an impact. In the nineteen the Tokyo Women's Highed

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Speaker 1: Normal School became Omiso University, and yeah, so we became

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Speaker 1: a professor of science at the university. But not long after,

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Speaker 1: around nineteen fifty two, she retired and she became a

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Speaker 1: professor emeritus at the university. But even so she continued

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Speaker 1: her research and her editing for the journal, and over

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Speaker 1: the course of her life she published more than ninety papers,

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Speaker 1: with the last appearing in nineteen fifty seven. So yeah,

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Speaker 1: very prolific in terms of the work that she did. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: ninety papers and then it lasted. Like wow, she's still

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Speaker 1: like a lasting impact with her research. That's amazing. Mm

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Speaker 1: hmmm mm hmm. So cool. I really do. I'm like, God,

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Speaker 1: I'm never gonna look at ferns the same way again.

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Speaker 1: I can't can't wait to hear about your character Salvidian

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Speaker 1: A times. Oh, I'm already I got the image in

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Speaker 1: my head. It's she's going to be like an enigma

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Speaker 1: for sure, of course, is yeah, I mean, don't you

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Speaker 1: feel like she would be an enigma? I think so

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Speaker 1: got it all planned out, planning it out right, one

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Speaker 1: with nature, rightly, one with nature like that that could

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Speaker 1: not be anything else, Like she has to be one

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Speaker 1: with nature. She somehow controls some of it. Come on, yeah,

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Speaker 1: you know, you know the funny thing, I mean, actually

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Speaker 1: sad thing. But my D and D campaign is kind

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Speaker 1: of about climate change and like the world coming into

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Speaker 1: an in so she could be like a real you know,

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Speaker 1: emotionally tied to the planet and what it's suffering. And yeah,

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Speaker 1: you cannot planned out. Maybe you should, you know, read

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Speaker 1: that research paper and get some get some background, some

427
00:25:51,119 --> 00:25:53,720
Speaker 1: background you have to for a little bit more inspiration.

428
00:25:54,640 --> 00:25:57,560
Speaker 1: I feel like I totally will, but it's one of

429
00:25:57,680 --> 00:25:59,560
Speaker 1: those things where I'm going to have to read every sentence,

430
00:25:59,640 --> 00:26:02,160
Speaker 1: like I'll to look up definitions for like every other word,

431
00:26:02,200 --> 00:26:06,520
Speaker 1: you know what I mean. Those papers are so draining

432
00:26:06,560 --> 00:26:08,840
Speaker 1: to read, but worthwhile if you put in the time.

433
00:26:09,520 --> 00:26:11,440
Speaker 1: I was gonna say, as you're like explaining the things

434
00:26:11,440 --> 00:26:14,159
Speaker 1: she's done and how she's getting there or what she accomplished,

435
00:26:14,160 --> 00:26:16,439
Speaker 1: I have to sit back and through like okay, okay,

436
00:26:16,520 --> 00:26:20,040
Speaker 1: yeah yeah, and then comment the pauses us trying to

437
00:26:20,080 --> 00:26:22,600
Speaker 1: take everything yet that she's doing or the experiments she's

438
00:26:22,640 --> 00:26:25,399
Speaker 1: trying to do. All of that. You're like, oh yeah, yeah, cool,

439
00:26:25,800 --> 00:26:33,000
Speaker 1: cool yeah cool yeah. Uh different definitely different life path,

440
00:26:34,720 --> 00:26:39,960
Speaker 1: but um, one worth you know, studying and looking back on. Nonetheless,

441
00:26:40,040 --> 00:26:41,480
Speaker 1: she did get a lot of honors for the word

442
00:26:41,480 --> 00:26:44,480
Speaker 1: that she did. She received the Medal with the Purple Ribbon,

443
00:26:44,560 --> 00:26:47,400
Speaker 1: which was a medal that is awarded to people who

444
00:26:47,400 --> 00:26:51,480
Speaker 1: have made outstanding academic and artistic achievements. And she also

445
00:26:51,520 --> 00:26:54,000
Speaker 1: received the Order of the Precious Crown, third Class, which

446
00:26:54,000 --> 00:26:58,040
Speaker 1: is a Japanese order. And she died in one at

447
00:26:58,080 --> 00:27:03,119
Speaker 1: age one. So um, she lived a pretty long life

448
00:27:03,119 --> 00:27:06,960
Speaker 1: and one that she that was pretty full of her

449
00:27:07,000 --> 00:27:11,240
Speaker 1: dedication to research and and traveling through that research as well.

450
00:27:11,280 --> 00:27:15,160
Speaker 1: And m yeah, I think one that's good to look

451
00:27:15,200 --> 00:27:17,199
Speaker 1: back on in terms of all the other people that

452
00:27:17,280 --> 00:27:20,360
Speaker 1: came after her, who who studied science, and not just

453
00:27:20,480 --> 00:27:22,960
Speaker 1: because they got a doctorate in it, you know, like,

454
00:27:23,119 --> 00:27:25,600
Speaker 1: of course that's her first, and that's the thing that

455
00:27:25,720 --> 00:27:28,440
Speaker 1: is a notable achievement, an accomplishment in her lifetime. But

456
00:27:30,160 --> 00:27:33,159
Speaker 1: like when it comes down to it, like what mattered

457
00:27:33,240 --> 00:27:34,840
Speaker 1: and what got her there was the work that she

458
00:27:34,880 --> 00:27:38,600
Speaker 1: did in her dedication to it, and that is what

459
00:27:38,760 --> 00:27:42,400
Speaker 1: she was so consumed with in a seemingly healthy way

460
00:27:42,400 --> 00:27:47,640
Speaker 1: and one that helped contribute to the entire field of

461
00:27:47,680 --> 00:27:51,399
Speaker 1: science all throughout the world. M h. Yeah. And I

462
00:27:51,440 --> 00:27:53,840
Speaker 1: think it's it's really worthwhile to talk about this because

463
00:27:54,680 --> 00:27:56,840
Speaker 1: this kind of stuff is still going on of like

464
00:27:57,040 --> 00:27:59,560
Speaker 1: women in science is still a big conversation in the

465
00:27:59,560 --> 00:28:03,479
Speaker 1: barriers and obstacles there in and getting more women involved

466
00:28:03,480 --> 00:28:05,679
Speaker 1: in science. I know, I've told the story multiple times

467
00:28:05,720 --> 00:28:08,040
Speaker 1: of when I was in high school, my favorite subject

468
00:28:08,040 --> 00:28:10,080
Speaker 1: was physics, and then I was told like it's not

469
00:28:10,160 --> 00:28:12,639
Speaker 1: cool for girls to like math and science, so I

470
00:28:12,800 --> 00:28:16,639
Speaker 1: changed my path um and then and right now with

471
00:28:16,680 --> 00:28:19,000
Speaker 1: COVID and the pandemic, we're seeing those studies come out

472
00:28:19,040 --> 00:28:22,399
Speaker 1: of how many women are being penalized like their papers

473
00:28:22,400 --> 00:28:26,679
Speaker 1: aren't getting submitted or read UM because of all of

474
00:28:26,760 --> 00:28:30,480
Speaker 1: the things that they're having to do UM with children

475
00:28:30,640 --> 00:28:33,440
Speaker 1: or our other jobs or being caretakers in general. So

476
00:28:34,520 --> 00:28:37,600
Speaker 1: I think this is a good UM. This is a

477
00:28:37,680 --> 00:28:44,080
Speaker 1: good first to talk about UM and still ongoing conversation

478
00:28:44,160 --> 00:28:46,560
Speaker 1: we're having, right, And I also think like one of

479
00:28:46,560 --> 00:28:48,320
Speaker 1: the things that you were talking about how she didn't

480
00:28:48,360 --> 00:28:51,760
Speaker 1: want to have just the one women's categories because it

481
00:28:51,840 --> 00:28:54,880
Speaker 1: was such a binding category, and how it can limit

482
00:28:54,880 --> 00:28:57,400
Speaker 1: women in itself, like the fact that we haven't even

483
00:28:57,440 --> 00:28:59,840
Speaker 1: gotten past that, like we still have to categorize in

484
00:29:00,120 --> 00:29:02,960
Speaker 1: or to be able to equalize the playing field because

485
00:29:03,000 --> 00:29:07,560
Speaker 1: people are so willing to dismiss those dismissed women in

486
00:29:07,600 --> 00:29:10,600
Speaker 1: general in the field and unless we have categories like

487
00:29:10,640 --> 00:29:13,280
Speaker 1: that are not allowed to give it, not even given

488
00:29:13,320 --> 00:29:15,840
Speaker 1: the chance. So the fact that from you know, her

489
00:29:16,480 --> 00:29:19,240
Speaker 1: time to to this time and that hasn't changed, it's

490
00:29:19,280 --> 00:29:25,080
Speaker 1: really sad. Yeah, there there are still so many fields

491
00:29:25,120 --> 00:29:28,440
Speaker 1: so that have that that create that distinction. And I

492
00:29:28,440 --> 00:29:31,160
Speaker 1: think there have been calls over the last couple of years,

493
00:29:31,200 --> 00:29:33,520
Speaker 1: like when it came to what the Academy awards. I

494
00:29:33,560 --> 00:29:38,480
Speaker 1: think like having having gender separations there, um, like when

495
00:29:38,520 --> 00:29:44,080
Speaker 1: it comes to musicians, um, in terms of like, oh,

496
00:29:44,120 --> 00:29:47,520
Speaker 1: like women hip hop artists or women rappers have to

497
00:29:47,520 --> 00:29:50,120
Speaker 1: be in this category and they can't be compared to

498
00:29:50,480 --> 00:29:53,360
Speaker 1: or they can't be put in the same the same field.

499
00:29:53,640 --> 00:29:56,280
Speaker 1: Are they they don't necessarily deserve to be, you know,

500
00:29:56,280 --> 00:29:58,680
Speaker 1: putting the same categories as these men. I think that always,

501
00:29:58,720 --> 00:30:02,280
Speaker 1: even if we say it's because of gender, like, there's

502
00:30:02,280 --> 00:30:07,280
Speaker 1: always the background where it's because we still hold the

503
00:30:07,320 --> 00:30:11,960
Speaker 1: assumptions around them not being as good lyricists or m

504
00:30:12,040 --> 00:30:16,080
Speaker 1: c s as so just so many yeah, so many

505
00:30:16,080 --> 00:30:20,640
Speaker 1: different places. And I think that, um, I think that

506
00:30:20,680 --> 00:30:25,040
Speaker 1: we can always have a debate about that because they're

507
00:30:25,040 --> 00:30:29,440
Speaker 1: gonna be people who understand that. And then but then

508
00:30:29,440 --> 00:30:33,680
Speaker 1: there's also the side of it, like, well, we were

509
00:30:33,800 --> 00:30:37,840
Speaker 1: so marginalized for so long that it's necessary for us

510
00:30:37,880 --> 00:30:41,720
Speaker 1: to uplift women in a certain way, um, to be

511
00:30:41,880 --> 00:30:47,239
Speaker 1: able to you know, kind of do course correction in

512
00:30:47,320 --> 00:30:49,000
Speaker 1: terms of that. So it's like, Okay, we need this

513
00:30:49,320 --> 00:30:51,560
Speaker 1: women's category because it was so long we were left

514
00:30:51,560 --> 00:30:53,840
Speaker 1: out and this this is the easiest way for us

515
00:30:53,880 --> 00:30:58,200
Speaker 1: to to get that sort of highlighting. But um, yeah,

516
00:30:58,320 --> 00:31:00,920
Speaker 1: it's it's definitely a thing that continue in science and

517
00:31:01,240 --> 00:31:05,520
Speaker 1: in so many other fields. Yeah, I have to say, like,

518
00:31:05,520 --> 00:31:08,040
Speaker 1: when people find out I'm on a feminist podcast, it's

519
00:31:08,040 --> 00:31:10,440
Speaker 1: surprising how many times it's like one of the first

520
00:31:10,480 --> 00:31:12,080
Speaker 1: questions they asked me is like, what do you think

521
00:31:12,080 --> 00:31:15,160
Speaker 1: about the Academy Awards? Should there be two categories? That's

522
00:31:15,160 --> 00:31:21,200
Speaker 1: the first question I get that question. Yet, well, I

523
00:31:21,200 --> 00:31:24,560
Speaker 1: think it's because I'm also an actor, Like there's the

524
00:31:24,760 --> 00:31:27,120
Speaker 1: intersection of it. But yeah, it is funny to me

525
00:31:27,160 --> 00:31:29,280
Speaker 1: how many people have asked me that. I'm like, huh, okay,

526
00:31:29,440 --> 00:31:32,360
Speaker 1: and yeah, I can definitely understand the frustrations. When we

527
00:31:32,440 --> 00:31:34,880
Speaker 1: had um s Cho that's one of the things that

528
00:31:34,920 --> 00:31:37,760
Speaker 1: she talked about, being really frustrated that she has to

529
00:31:38,000 --> 00:31:41,080
Speaker 1: be qualified as being the best female chef or be

530
00:31:41,200 --> 00:31:42,920
Speaker 1: you know, in these categories instead of just being like,

531
00:31:42,920 --> 00:31:45,560
Speaker 1: why can't I just be a good chef? And I'm like, yeah,

532
00:31:45,600 --> 00:31:47,840
Speaker 1: that would be ideal. And I know that's some of

533
00:31:47,840 --> 00:31:50,000
Speaker 1: the arguments of like women don't need their own categories,

534
00:31:50,120 --> 00:31:52,320
Speaker 1: or you know, people of color don't need their own categories.

535
00:31:52,480 --> 00:31:56,760
Speaker 1: But the issue is is the marginalization and slash erature

536
00:31:57,040 --> 00:31:58,720
Speaker 1: of people who are doing these good awards, as well

537
00:31:58,760 --> 00:32:00,720
Speaker 1: as the fact that a lot of time people doing

538
00:32:00,720 --> 00:32:04,080
Speaker 1: these good words get their ideals stolen from them and

539
00:32:04,120 --> 00:32:06,720
Speaker 1: then credited to white people or people that are not

540
00:32:06,840 --> 00:32:10,240
Speaker 1: of that marginalized community. And that's part of like why

541
00:32:10,360 --> 00:32:12,160
Speaker 1: like the back and forth. It's like, yeah, I get it,

542
00:32:12,600 --> 00:32:14,280
Speaker 1: this is not great, and we wish you didn't have

543
00:32:14,320 --> 00:32:16,480
Speaker 1: to be separate this out. At the same time, if

544
00:32:16,520 --> 00:32:19,360
Speaker 1: we don't, you don't ever see and you don't ever

545
00:32:19,400 --> 00:32:22,240
Speaker 1: talk about the underlying Hey, this is actually what happened.

546
00:32:22,320 --> 00:32:24,240
Speaker 1: This is actually what you know. It's the truth of

547
00:32:24,240 --> 00:32:27,040
Speaker 1: it all, and you ignored it until we highlighted it.

548
00:32:27,160 --> 00:32:29,360
Speaker 1: Like it's just it's so upsetting because you're like, it

549
00:32:29,440 --> 00:32:31,440
Speaker 1: is this balance of one or the other, and we

550
00:32:31,680 --> 00:32:37,080
Speaker 1: are trying to equalize the playing field. Yeah, and they

551
00:32:37,080 --> 00:32:39,440
Speaker 1: were and there oh sorry any no, I was just

552
00:32:39,480 --> 00:32:45,840
Speaker 1: gonna say heavy side, but yeah, there's there's also recently,

553
00:32:45,920 --> 00:32:48,120
Speaker 1: I think over the past year, have been news popping

554
00:32:48,160 --> 00:32:54,360
Speaker 1: up about the gender disparities in Tokyo University still and

555
00:32:54,920 --> 00:32:59,200
Speaker 1: so that's still a thing that happens in so many

556
00:33:00,160 --> 00:33:02,760
Speaker 1: and and a lot of higher education around around the world.

557
00:33:03,920 --> 00:33:11,520
Speaker 1: Right yep, ah, well, you know We started at Urban

558
00:33:11,600 --> 00:33:15,080
Speaker 1: Legends and we end on heavy size about gender disparity.

559
00:33:15,120 --> 00:33:18,440
Speaker 1: That sounds about right. Um, is there anything else do

560
00:33:18,480 --> 00:33:26,760
Speaker 1: you want to ask about? Right? Very morbid? But no, um, no,

561
00:33:26,920 --> 00:33:30,600
Speaker 1: there is nothing else? All right, Well, thank you so

562
00:33:30,680 --> 00:33:34,120
Speaker 1: much for joining us. Is there where we can the

563
00:33:34,120 --> 00:33:36,800
Speaker 1: good listeners find you? Um? You can find me on

564
00:33:36,840 --> 00:33:40,200
Speaker 1: the internet. I'm Att Eves jeffco on Twitter at not Apologizing.

565
00:33:40,200 --> 00:33:44,040
Speaker 1: On Instagram. You can also find me on the Show's Unpopular,

566
00:33:44,120 --> 00:33:46,000
Speaker 1: which is a show about people in history who really

567
00:33:46,000 --> 00:33:48,400
Speaker 1: broke down barriers and were persecuted for the things that

568
00:33:48,440 --> 00:33:51,160
Speaker 1: they did. And you can also find me on the

569
00:33:51,160 --> 00:33:53,960
Speaker 1: show This Day in History Class, which is about people

570
00:33:54,000 --> 00:33:57,560
Speaker 1: in history who are well not just people in histories,

571
00:33:57,560 --> 00:34:00,720
Speaker 1: about people and history and of it's in history. Um.

572
00:34:00,760 --> 00:34:06,080
Speaker 1: And those are short daily doses of new things and

573
00:34:06,120 --> 00:34:11,160
Speaker 1: hopefully interesting things that you can learn about. Definitely interesting things,

574
00:34:11,160 --> 00:34:14,719
Speaker 1: That's what I'll say. And yeah, you definitely need to

575
00:34:14,800 --> 00:34:20,200
Speaker 1: go see her instrugram because she doesn't buy stories. Her

576
00:34:20,320 --> 00:34:24,759
Speaker 1: Instagram is a little bit and if you would like

577
00:34:24,760 --> 00:34:27,080
Speaker 1: to contact us, you can or email the Stuff Media

578
00:34:27,160 --> 00:34:29,040
Speaker 1: Mom Stuff at i heeart media dot com. You can

579
00:34:29,080 --> 00:34:31,040
Speaker 1: also find it's on Twitter at mom Stuff podcast or

580
00:34:31,080 --> 00:34:33,120
Speaker 1: on Instagram and Stuff I've Never Told You, Thanks as

581
00:34:33,120 --> 00:34:36,799
Speaker 1: always to our super producer Andrew Howard. Thanks Andrew, and

582
00:34:36,840 --> 00:34:39,080
Speaker 1: thanks to you for listening Stuff I've Never Told You

583
00:34:39,080 --> 00:34:40,960
Speaker 1: the protection of I Heeart Radio For more podcast from

584
00:34:41,000 --> 00:34:43,280
Speaker 1: I Heart Radio because it's I Heart Radio, app, Apple Podcast,

585
00:34:43,400 --> 00:34:44,960
Speaker 1: or wherever you listen to your favorite shows