Speaker 1: Hey, guys, welcome to another episode of Eating While Broke.
Speaker 1: I'm your host, Coleen Witt, and today we have a
Speaker 1: very special guest. I'm super excited about you, mainly because
Speaker 1: I feel like you are inspiring. You're a woman's woman.
Speaker 1: You're just very open and for me, that vulnerability is
Speaker 1: very beautiful. But without further ado, sex educator, author, podcaster
Speaker 1: lovers by Shan shout out, Shan Boudrum Brady is in
Speaker 1: the building.
Speaker 2: Guys.
Speaker 3: You did it, Thank you.
Speaker 2: Thank you for coming on. Guys. Just a little backstory.
Speaker 1: I was at an event with Nick Cannon and I
Speaker 1: saw her walking Rome and I immediately went to my
Speaker 1: brother like, oh my god, I watch your stuff. I
Speaker 1: listen to your stuff. There's areas in my life that
Speaker 1: I'm not I'm more in the taboo sexist or a
Speaker 1: little bit more taboo on my side. So seeing you,
Speaker 1: kind of seeing you be liberated, allows other people to
Speaker 1: do the same. So definitely a huge fan. But the
Speaker 1: second I saw you walking the room, I saw her
Speaker 1: walking room, I was like, oh my god, and you
Speaker 1: didn't see me.
Speaker 2: You were doing you were just looking amazing, And I
Speaker 2: was like, oh, she's stunning it.
Speaker 1: For yes, I promise you all of the all the
Speaker 1: good girly feelings.
Speaker 2: Was flowing, and I just I couldn't. I didn't care
Speaker 2: about Nick or nothing he had going on.
Speaker 1: I said, Yo, I watched this girl and I'm a
Speaker 1: huge fan and you're a woman's woman, just everything about y'all.
Speaker 1: So I've been bragging all week and I even told
Speaker 1: my team we have a new member on our team,
Speaker 1: and I was like, we can't. You can't even test
Speaker 1: your anything on this episode because I'm very honored to
Speaker 1: have you. Shout outs to my girl that made sure
Speaker 1: it happen, but you being so sweet and being like, yeah,
Speaker 1: I'm gonna do it and doing it well.
Speaker 3: You had this drop dead gorgeous woman approached me afterwards
Speaker 3: and say there's this podcast. You have to go on it.
Speaker 3: She's a really big admirer of your work. I think
Speaker 3: you guys would have an amazing conversation. I think it'll
Speaker 3: be great for you. And you're cooking, so I was like, oh,
Speaker 3: it sounds really fun.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and you're cooking.
Speaker 3: Shout out to you for knowing what you want and
Speaker 3: going after it. And I'm really grateful to be here
Speaker 3: and I love that you showed the love, Like as
Speaker 3: soon as I parked there was a smile on your
Speaker 3: face and said like welcome, Yeah, excited, And I love to.
Speaker 1: Answer the call like yo, yeah, Like I probably shouldn't
Speaker 1: have answered that excited, but you know, I think people
Speaker 1: need to know they're loved and you know, and just celebrated.
Speaker 1: And sometimes you never know the impact you have on
Speaker 1: others or what have you. So, like I said, we're
Speaker 1: like a little bit more opposite, and I think that's
Speaker 1: the more beautiful part about it. It's like you think
Speaker 1: you only attract people like yourself, Yeah, but it's like
Speaker 1: you letting your life shine allows others to do the same.
Speaker 1: But before we get into the goodies of your background,
Speaker 1: which I did study and I try not to do
Speaker 1: too much research, guy, but go ahead and tell us
Speaker 1: what your go to eating while broke dish is my go.
Speaker 3: To eating while broke dish is tomato besk best, which
Speaker 3: we have been debating whether tomato beeesk and tomato soup
Speaker 3: are different or it's just a way of making yourself
Speaker 3: feel more fancy. But it comes into can It's Campbell's
Speaker 3: and I have been eating this pretty much my whole life.
Speaker 3: But it became a huge staple for me while I
Speaker 3: was broke.
Speaker 1: Okay, so go ahead and tell us what are your
Speaker 1: ingredients for your tomato baske me. No, one's can soup,
Speaker 1: but you added something else.
Speaker 3: Yes, so it's a can of soup and then you
Speaker 3: have to do I'm pretty sure the ingredients is one
Speaker 3: dump of soup and then one dump of either water
Speaker 3: or milk. So depending on where I was add financially,
Speaker 3: it would be water or milk I asked for. I
Speaker 3: should have asked you for milk.
Speaker 2: But wait, you're going to heat up the milk, and
Speaker 2: you can heat up milk like that.
Speaker 3: I'm pretty sure I think I used to do that.
Speaker 3: Now that I'm like doubting myself. I had a water
Speaker 3: but you dump it and you add water, then you
Speaker 3: put this, and then you add the cheese to give
Speaker 3: it some texture, so you're tubing.
Speaker 1: I just love that it's a memory because that shows
Speaker 1: how far the road has come.
Speaker 3: Yeah, you're like questioning my milk theory. I'm like, did
Speaker 3: I used to use milk?
Speaker 2: Because if you think about it, you're like boiling the milk.
Speaker 3: Right, but you boil the milk for other things like
Speaker 3: cream of wheat, oatmeal almost another huge eating wall.
Speaker 2: Bro oatmeal, and you put milk in your own.
Speaker 3: One hundred Yes that I do know. I'm very confident.
Speaker 1: Okay, So then you're you should be confident that you
Speaker 1: do it in soup, because I should be.
Speaker 2: I don't do it in either. I'm like, yo, that's
Speaker 2: a little risk gay for me. Yeah.
Speaker 3: My husband makes pancakes with water. I make pancakes with it.
Speaker 2: I make pancakes with water.
Speaker 3: What maybe I just like milk like milk.
Speaker 1: Oh my, you're like my daughter. I don't know where
Speaker 1: that comes from. Bo Okay, so go ahead start cooking
Speaker 1: us the water version of Fortunately.
Speaker 3: We don't have milk version, the cheaper version, the.
Speaker 1: Cheaper version that's the budget friendly version. And while you
Speaker 1: get started on the why don't you take me back
Speaker 1: to the dire days of Super Survival all right?
Speaker 3: Let me just read the instructions first before I because
Speaker 3: I actually haven't made the canned version in a really
Speaker 3: long time. All right, So if we go on the stove,
Speaker 3: we're gonna heat during a occasionally where it's the directions microwavey,
Speaker 3: I think you're just supposed to add the soups and
Speaker 3: one can of water thank you.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you got it.
Speaker 3: Very good milk.
Speaker 2: By the way, guys, I don't know.
Speaker 3: Okay, So I'm gonna pour our soup in there. I'm
Speaker 3: going to put this on high. It's gonna come out
Speaker 3: delicious on the bottom.
Speaker 2: Knop.
Speaker 3: Okay, we want it on power boil mh boom.
Speaker 2: And then you're gonna add your water, okay, and you
Speaker 2: don't add flavors to it.
Speaker 3: You could add a little bit of time or some
Speaker 3: oregano doesn't need it. I like hot foods, hot foods
Speaker 3: or foods that are like very difficult. I mentioned to
Speaker 3: you artichokes another option. Anything that takes a long time
Speaker 3: to eat is good because it makes you feel more full.
Speaker 3: So meals that are like really fast to eat, you're
Speaker 3: gonna feel hungry afterwards. So something that's super hot, like
Speaker 3: a soup, or something super complicated like crab legs.
Speaker 2: Or feel like that's more annoying to eat when I'm starved.
Speaker 3: But now you're going slowly, so you fill up faster.
Speaker 3: You know, I'm a mom.
Speaker 1: So, by the way, I forgot to shout out Shan's
Speaker 1: hardest title is an I'm curious for this followup for this,
Speaker 1: But you're.
Speaker 2: A mom, a mother of two, and it's too harder
Speaker 2: than one.
Speaker 3: In some ways, yes, In some ways no, I think
Speaker 3: it's like kind of evens itself out. They kind of
Speaker 3: distract each other kind of, but you feel less guilty
Speaker 3: for them having alone time because they have each other.
Speaker 3: So if they're playing in their room or you know
Speaker 3: what I mean, like even sleeping in the same bed,
Speaker 3: you're like, Okay, there's another person there to monitor you. Yeah, right,
Speaker 3: Like if I'm not in the room, someone else is
Speaker 3: there to tell me if you're choking on your vomit whatever.
Speaker 3: So I think that in that capacity, I also think
Speaker 3: it was much better for the relation my romantic relationship
Speaker 3: really much, because with one, there's like this one on
Speaker 3: one off thing that happens, and then that leads to
Speaker 3: a lot of like feelings of unfairness because it's like, well,
Speaker 3: I did this last time or you did this this time,
Speaker 3: and you're dipping out a lot. When there's two, it's
Speaker 3: all hands on deck all the time, so nobody has
Speaker 3: the option of like sneaking away or going on their phone.
Speaker 3: It's like everybody at all times, everywhere. So I found
Speaker 3: that once we had two, we just just completely locked
Speaker 3: in and there was just a lot less resentment. Of course,
Speaker 3: we roll some more seasoned as parents, so that helped.
Speaker 1: You're not like worried that Like for me, I always thought, like,
Speaker 1: what happens if something happens to this child, Like do
Speaker 1: will they believe that it was an accident?
Speaker 2: Like well, my first one.
Speaker 1: I was like, if she'd like dies by accident in
Speaker 1: my possession, Like do I go to jail or will
Speaker 1: they believe that?
Speaker 2: Like why would you give someone who has never had
Speaker 2: a kid a kid?
Speaker 3: Like you know, that's so funny.
Speaker 1: When we came home from the hospital with our daughter,
Speaker 1: my husband, I swear to God, was like.
Speaker 2: Okay, get in the car, hurry up, hurry up. I'm like,
Speaker 2: what are we rushing for? Get in the car.
Speaker 1: And I was like, oh, it's because we both realized,
Speaker 1: like why would they give us a kid? And he
Speaker 1: just kept going, hurry up, let's get her in the
Speaker 1: car before they changed their mind. It's like, bruh, I
Speaker 1: don't think they're gonna change their mind.
Speaker 2: We need them. We need to stay as long as possible.
Speaker 1: You know, they give you like three days in the husble,
Speaker 1: like no, let's stay a little bit longer, just make
Speaker 1: sure we worked.
Speaker 3: Out all the kids. Yeah. You know what's so funny
Speaker 3: about that is that having kids made me realize how
Speaker 3: much of an empty fear having your kid kidnapped is,
Speaker 3: because it's like, Ooh, I want this kid.
Speaker 1: That's all the time if you're a background Like. But
Speaker 1: I think sometimes if I was like a kidnapper, I
Speaker 1: would go to a playground.
Speaker 2: But then sometimes I'm like, who on earth would want
Speaker 2: a kid?
Speaker 3: A kid? RESPONSI But I would make a joke that like,
Speaker 3: if they would get to kidnap my kid, they'd take them.
Speaker 3: They'd have them in the car, and my kids to
Speaker 3: start being like, I need snacks, red water, I'm hungry,
Speaker 3: that seatbelts too tight, change the mirror, Zach. And then
Speaker 3: they would just turn right back around and drop them
Speaker 3: off and just push them out. So I think it's
Speaker 3: their own protection. Being very annoying is their way of
Speaker 3: protecting this because they're so cute, but it's so annoying.
Speaker 1: Yeah, the second you realize that, all the level of yeah,
Speaker 1: all that comes with it. But okay, so take me
Speaker 1: back to what was going on during the milk and
Speaker 1: tomato biscare.
Speaker 3: Okay, I'll take you to. I think like my lowest
Speaker 3: point of era because it lasted for a little bit.
Speaker 3: There was two times I went through it. One when
Speaker 3: I first moved out at I moved out at age eighteen,
Speaker 3: and then twenty four, and then I moved to California
Speaker 3: at twenty eight, So twenty four, I it was not
Speaker 3: a bad time. Actually, I used to do background work
Speaker 3: so like people might recognize me from Mean Girls. I
Speaker 3: bumped Lindsay Lohan in the beginning. It's like, unfortunately the
Speaker 3: thing my mom my mom was so proud. She would
Speaker 3: like tell everybody like my daughter's and Mean Girls, like mom,
Speaker 3: I was paid six dollars that day and I ate
Speaker 3: Cheetos like I'm not a star in Mean Girls. But
Speaker 3: that was a moment. So around that time is when
Speaker 3: I really got into the soup. I ate it growing
Speaker 3: up as a comfort food, and then when I didn't
Speaker 3: have a lot of money, you realize you can get
Speaker 3: sometimes you could get two cans for a dollar, yeah,
Speaker 3: and you could get another can of dice tomatoes added
Speaker 3: in there. You can add some cheese for some che
Speaker 3: and it's a slow eat.
Speaker 2: I used to boil.
Speaker 3: Oh, yeah, it's really boiling, and I love it because
Speaker 3: it's kind of like every nice restaurant has tomato bisk
Speaker 3: so it's pretty cheap, even like seven bucks there. So
Speaker 3: when I moved to La for example, I had a
Speaker 3: lot of friends who had money, and I would go
Speaker 3: out for dinner with them. You know, at the end
Speaker 3: of dinner, everyone just throws their credit card down, but
Speaker 3: they had the surf and turf with this big bottle
Speaker 3: of wine, and I had a tomato soup because all
Speaker 3: I could afford. So I kind of learned very quickly
Speaker 3: that I'd always bring ten bucks because that would cover
Speaker 3: my food plus the tips. Like that was my go
Speaker 3: to meal going out.
Speaker 2: I love that.
Speaker 3: But around the time the second time, at twenty eight
Speaker 3: years old, twenty nine maybe no, I was thirty. So
Speaker 3: between twenty eight and thirties when I was eating this
Speaker 3: a lot, or just through my very broke LA phase,
Speaker 3: I was living in my first studio apartment, my first
Speaker 3: place to myself. All the rest of the time of
Speaker 3: my life, I'd had roommates, or I was subleasing, or
Speaker 3: I was renting a room. This is really special because
Speaker 3: it was my first place. But even that it was
Speaker 3: my first place, it wasn't the best building, so I
Speaker 3: had bed bugs. So I had bed bugs. My immigration,
Speaker 3: because immigrated from Canada to America, was on the fritz,
Speaker 3: so I wasn't actually legally allowed to work in America,
Speaker 3: which meant I had to live off of my savings.
Speaker 3: So I had basically nothing left, and I was.
Speaker 1: Your savings were from I just want to backtrack a
Speaker 1: little bit. I know you published a book before you
Speaker 1: came to La, Yes, So I just want to backtrack
Speaker 1: to that. Can we can we start your story on
Speaker 1: the original on you kind of publishing this book or
Speaker 1: after Mean Girls. I'm sure it's after Mean Girls.
Speaker 3: You was after me Girls, Okay, Okay, I.
Speaker 1: Don't want to skip over any of that, Okay, because
Speaker 1: I feel like at the time that you published your book,
Speaker 1: were ready to add our cheese lade right it was late, yes, yes,
Speaker 1: at the time you published Laid, it was still you know,
Speaker 1: sex isn't It wasn't like talked about the way it
Speaker 1: is now.
Speaker 2: So I just want to go back to that experience
Speaker 2: and how you broached that subject and did that with
Speaker 2: your parents knowing, and like the whole awkwardness. I don't
Speaker 2: want to skip over any of this.
Speaker 3: Okay, Great, I love that. We're ready to eat whenever
Speaker 3: you are too.
Speaker 2: Okay, this divine dish is ready to be served. Is
Speaker 2: the cheese like melted in the fall?
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's very melted.
Speaker 2: Okay, Yeah, you can serve us up girl.
Speaker 3: If you want. I can let it sit for a second.
Speaker 3: But we can let it sit in our bowls to
Speaker 3: set in our bowls, so it's not it's not too hot.
Speaker 3: It's also good at the cheese isn't completely melted because
Speaker 3: then you get more chew.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, I like stretch.
Speaker 3: We need the chew. The chew is what tells your
Speaker 3: belly that you're more full.
Speaker 2: Oh, there's little tomato chunks in there. Is there there's
Speaker 2: a little tomato.
Speaker 3: That's the bisk all right.
Speaker 2: Oh okay, don't sleep on campbells on campbellstoes, all right.
Speaker 3: So I grew up running track and field, and my
Speaker 3: parents are Caribbean, so they're both ran track growing up,
Speaker 3: and we're very passionate about sports. And so I just
Speaker 3: thought my whole life I was going to be an Olympian.
Speaker 3: The I was going to do And I got a
Speaker 3: full scholarship to Coppin State University in Baltimore when I
Speaker 3: was eighteen. It was my family's dream. I didn't have anything.
Speaker 3: I didn't have a college fund or anything safe, so
Speaker 3: that was my plan. I went to school for a year,
Speaker 3: realized I was not going to the Olympics, like my
Speaker 3: skill set was not going to take me there. And
Speaker 3: essentially my sister got kicked out at home back in
Speaker 3: Canada and she needed a roommate. So I was like,
Speaker 3: I don't think I'm going to run anymore anyways, So
Speaker 3: I don't know if I want to come back and
Speaker 3: do my scholarship. So I think I'm going to enroll
Speaker 3: in college in Canada and then just try a new
Speaker 3: life path. So I started when I came back, because
Speaker 3: it was probably June by that time. The only school
Speaker 3: still accepting were colleges universities. Of course, you had to
Speaker 3: apply long before. S ended up at Centennial College. Also affordable.
Speaker 3: It was like twelve hundred bucks per semester, right, yeah,
Speaker 3: so a few days on background whatever, So I was
Speaker 3: able to enroll in that school. And when you go
Speaker 3: to journalism school, day one, they'll tell you write what
Speaker 3: you know, and so I always wanted to be an athlete,
Speaker 3: but I also was really good at writing, so I
Speaker 3: was like, Oh, I'll go into you know, school for
Speaker 3: print journalism. And so if someone in the class was
Speaker 3: like I love politics, okay, be a political reporter. Someone
Speaker 3: was like, I love sports, be a sportscaster. I love entertainment,
Speaker 3: be an entertainment reporter. And then I was like, damn,
Speaker 3: they have all those good ones. What do I really love?
Speaker 3: And I was like, I love fucking That's what I'm
Speaker 3: going to write about. And so that's what I centered
Speaker 3: really my whole college experience around writing and talking about
Speaker 3: sex and relationships. And when I graduated from school, I
Speaker 3: went on to University of Toronto and did a c
Speaker 3: E course there to be a sex education counselor, and
Speaker 3: so I worked doing that volunteer and then simultaneously I
Speaker 3: started writing my first book Late, which was an anthology
Speaker 3: of people's sexual experiences that others could learn from.
Speaker 2: Oh okay okay.
Speaker 3: And this was in two thousand and nine. So why
Speaker 3: that's relevant is like, that's kind of around the time
Speaker 3: that social media started, so it was a whole different
Speaker 3: landscape in terms of how people were coming int their
Speaker 3: sexual selves learning about sex. Many people's first sexual experience
Speaker 3: was through AOL or through MSN Messenger or through black Planning.
Speaker 2: I remember all those, right.
Speaker 3: So it was the book was to account for the
Speaker 3: new ways. So it was called Young People's Experiences with
Speaker 3: Sex in an Easy Access Culture, so kind of just
Speaker 3: noting the fact that times have really changed and so
Speaker 3: our education has to change as well. That book came out,
Speaker 3: I got paid ten thousand dollars for it. I spent
Speaker 3: nineteen to twenty four, so five years writing it. As
Speaker 3: you have elluded, did not go well with my family.
Speaker 1: Yeah, because you had to have the goals, because like
Speaker 1: even in class when everyone's like this, this this right,
Speaker 1: and you're a female, Yeah, you're not a man, so
Speaker 1: like you're this is what I'm going like, I'm curious,
Speaker 1: like how did everyone perceive that off jump?
Speaker 2: And how did you? I guess not sway.
Speaker 3: I think that I have a natural disagreeable personality, which
Speaker 3: really worked in my favor as an entrepreneur, didn't work
Speaker 3: in my favor when it came to creating relationships. But
Speaker 3: I didn't address that until my thirties. But my twenties
Speaker 3: was a time to really lean into that like fuck
Speaker 3: you mentality. It really that's what disagreeability is. Everyone's going left,
Speaker 3: and you're like, I think I need to go right.
Speaker 3: But I also just intuitively knew how important it was.
Speaker 3: I had a really negative sex life, and I'd always
Speaker 3: had a really strong passion towards sex from a very
Speaker 3: young age, and that wasn't fueled bisexual assault or anything.
Speaker 3: It was just my natural knowingness. This was a beautiful
Speaker 3: part of the human experience, and I always I feel
Speaker 3: like I had an age appropriate interest in it that
Speaker 3: was really discouraged at every turn, which is natural because
Speaker 3: parents are obviously like trying to protect you, yes, or
Speaker 3: protect your heart too, because remember it's not just physical, right, yeah,
Speaker 3: and trying to protect the reputation or trying to protect
Speaker 3: your safety. There's a million different ways. You know that,
Speaker 3: it was like heavily discouraged. And so when I got
Speaker 3: a little older and I had hormones mixed with that interest,
Speaker 3: with the knowledge that my parents were disappointed in this
Speaker 3: part of.
Speaker 2: Me, it, oh they were voicing it.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I got in the trouble. My barbies were banned
Speaker 3: from being naked. By age seven. I had a sleepover
Speaker 3: with a friend where we had like a very like
Speaker 3: platonic sort of sexual experience with our pillows and I
Speaker 3: enjoyed it, and my friend told her parents like kind
Speaker 3: of like in a oh we did last night. I
Speaker 3: got in so much trouble for that. I was called
Speaker 3: loud a lot growing up because I was just very touchy,
Speaker 3: like stop being lued or so inappropriate your lude. So
Speaker 3: I just kind of knew. Yeah, and I went to
Speaker 3: a Catholic school. Yeah, so all of these things combined,
Speaker 3: I knew that my parents did not appreciate this part
Speaker 3: of me.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I have a twin, just a terrible embarrassing story.
Speaker 1: My twin will kill me as hopefully she doesn't really
Speaker 1: listen to my show, so I'm safe.
Speaker 2: But we're twins. And I remember the Funds. Do you
Speaker 2: remember the Funds from probably yes?
Speaker 1: Yes, Okay, So I used to watch and I used
Speaker 1: to pretend to be like him and I try to
Speaker 1: like Maget to my sister and my mom hurt us up.
Speaker 2: One night, and boy did we get in trouble.
Speaker 1: I was mortified, but my mom like they nailed us
Speaker 1: to cross over that. But that and like playing doctor
Speaker 1: when you're a kid, I remember those ages of curiosity.
Speaker 2: But I also remember the amount of trouble you got
Speaker 2: into if your parents discovered it became instantly a bad thing.
Speaker 3: Right, Yeah, And you learned that really early on, that
Speaker 3: this is a bad thing. And so some people keep
Speaker 3: that lesson and they just substain other people have and
Speaker 3: we just went different paths because I essentially was like, ooh,
Speaker 3: this is bad, so I'll keep it a secret. So
Speaker 3: I watched lots of porn. I read fiction books as
Speaker 3: if they were scientific texts. Coldest Winter Ever, fly Girl,
Speaker 3: Omar Tairi.
Speaker 2: But but at what age are you reading these things?
Speaker 2: Thirteen fourteen, So you were on your path early.
Speaker 3: Oh I guess I got my period at thirteen. So
Speaker 3: you start to get those hormones that make sex less
Speaker 3: of an interest and more of an urge around the
Speaker 3: time that you have your first menstrual cycle. Yeah, because
Speaker 3: I mean that's your body starts to feed you hormones
Speaker 3: to say that your body is ready. Obviously your body
Speaker 3: is not. But'll have the same programming from the Jesus
Speaker 3: era when we used to have kids at fourteen years old.
Speaker 3: So yeah, I was starting to get those messaging. And again,
Speaker 3: I think I always had that natural interest, and so
Speaker 3: that essentially taught me all the wrong things about sex.
Speaker 3: So when I started engaging insects at sixteen, which was
Speaker 3: the time I had my sexual debut, I was just
Speaker 3: going about it the wrong way. By seventeen, I had
Speaker 3: seven sexual partners, zero orgasms, had never really had a
Speaker 3: meaningful relationship, very low self esteem, and I found myself
Speaker 3: at a crossroads of Okay, either your parents and your
Speaker 3: school and your culture was right, this is a really
Speaker 3: dangerous thing you have to put down, or you were
Speaker 3: right when you were five, this is a really beautiful thing.
Speaker 3: But you've just never gotten good information. So I got
Speaker 3: myself a library card, which I always think that version
Speaker 3: of myself for that small act. I was like, let
Speaker 3: me just see for myself. So I started reading all
Speaker 3: of these texts about sex, like scholastic, scholarly text and
Speaker 3: my mind was blow. I was like, Wow, there's such
Speaker 3: good information here. But sex said is bad sex. It's boring,
Speaker 3: it's faceless, it's not missed.
Speaker 2: I know, I remember sex said being good.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's not goodenough too, it's awkward. But even if
Speaker 3: it's good information, Like what makes you know porn really
Speaker 3: great is like you're attracted to the people, You're invested
Speaker 3: in the storyline, Like even movies or TV shows. So
Speaker 3: if you're just providing seventy percent of women orgasm this way,
Speaker 3: ten percent of people with penises do that. This is
Speaker 3: what your follicular stage is, like, this is why you're
Speaker 3: horn during ovulation. You're just like, unless you have the
Speaker 3: extreme interest, you're going to tune that out and go
Speaker 3: for the fiction book. So I just had that aha
Speaker 3: at around you know, eighteen nineteen years old, of oh,
Speaker 3: there's great information here, but sex said needs to be
Speaker 3: sexy and someone needs to do that. So that's kind
Speaker 3: of around the time that I enrolled in my program
Speaker 3: for print journalism. Anyways, I'd already started to have that aha,
Speaker 3: like yeah, like someone should be making this information more accessible,
Speaker 3: more interesting, and then you know, skip to that first
Speaker 3: day of journalism school. It just clicked like, oh that
Speaker 3: someone needs to be me, and it was discouraged every
Speaker 3: step of the way, just like when I was a kid.
Speaker 2: Now, how did you get to the ten thousand dollars endorsement?
Speaker 2: Out of all this.
Speaker 3: Discouragement, I sensually said, I'm going to do what the
Speaker 3: books did. I'm going to write the story of my
Speaker 3: first sexual experience in great detail, but I'm not going
Speaker 3: to skip out on the truth. I didn't orgasm, the
Speaker 3: person didn't call me again. I never saw the person
Speaker 3: I had sex with for the first time until ten
Speaker 3: years later. I felt really shamed. I went to the
Speaker 3: sexual health clinic. Afterwards. I was certain that I had
Speaker 3: contracted HIV. Just that would be my luck. So I
Speaker 3: told the story of like how cool it because it
Speaker 3: was a really cool the book, Oh my gosh, I
Speaker 3: had a really you know, I've come to reframe it.
Speaker 3: But my first time having sex was very sex in
Speaker 3: the city and I got very kind of interesting. I'll
Speaker 3: give you a TLDR of it. I ran track, so
Speaker 3: I made it to the World Youth Games in Hungary.
Speaker 3: So I traveled there and for some reason they were
Speaker 3: like letting us take the train to and from the
Speaker 3: competition area from our hotel by ourselves. So I'm sixteen
Speaker 3: years old, I'm taking the train by myself. And I
Speaker 3: got eliminated really early on in the competition. So I'm like,
Speaker 3: I'm here for like five more days to do nothing.
Speaker 3: I'm like, let me just take pictures of all the
Speaker 3: hot guys around the world. I'm bored.
Speaker 2: I like that.
Speaker 3: And there was one guy from England who was so hot.
Speaker 3: He was one hundred meter runner, and so I approached
Speaker 3: him and I was like, Hi, I'm just taking pictures
Speaker 3: of really beautiful people. You're so gorgeous. Can I take
Speaker 3: your photo? He's like, oh, I can't really do that
Speaker 3: because like, I'm old, sweaty.
Speaker 2: He had an accent too, I'm really sweaty.
Speaker 3: So I can't really do that right now. But late
Speaker 3: to love and then I was just like, well, if
Speaker 3: you're worried about, you know, not being clean, come back
Speaker 3: to my hotel and take a shower there. Why did
Speaker 3: I say that at sixteen?
Speaker 2: Girl? You were focused on in the picture, right?
Speaker 3: I don't know I was. I was not. I was
Speaker 3: a virgin, but I was like, come, it's like a picture.
Speaker 3: And then he was like kind of startled. He was
Speaker 3: like okay. So then he took the train back to
Speaker 3: my place. It was like this silent, sort of weird
Speaker 3: thing that happened. He comes up to my hotel room,
Speaker 3: he takes a shower, and then he pops his head
Speaker 3: out afterwards, and he was like, I need a shit please,
Speaker 3: and so I go to hand in his shirt. He
Speaker 3: grabs it and then I pull him out of the
Speaker 3: bathroom I know.
Speaker 2: Holy shoot, this is like some very visual.
Speaker 3: Well remember the books I was reading, Okay, remember call
Speaker 3: this winterever, remember my influences. But it could take me
Speaker 3: that far. But it didn't know how to tell how
Speaker 3: to teach me how to advocate for protection, so it
Speaker 3: was unprotected. Those books didn't know how to teach me
Speaker 3: about my pleasure, about what I needed to feel safe,
Speaker 3: and what conversations I wanted to have afterwards to make
Speaker 3: sure that I felt good about everything. It didn't even
Speaker 3: teach me how to ask that person for their information
Speaker 3: to stay in touch. So that's where I say that
Speaker 3: the education stopped short. So I told that story in
Speaker 3: great detail on the Internet, and then I said, to people,
Speaker 3: submit your stories. I want to help people learn through
Speaker 3: real life stories because the truth is much more interesting
Speaker 3: than fiction, and there's so many gaps in what you
Speaker 3: know and what you don't know that I want to
Speaker 3: help you fill in. So I waited till my parents
Speaker 3: went away on vacation, and then I sent them the
Speaker 3: link to the website and said, this is what I'm
Speaker 3: doing in my life now. They were so livid, and
Speaker 3: I thought that they would calm down because my parents drove.
Speaker 3: They drove everywhere. They drove to Florida. I thought they'd
Speaker 3: be calmed down by the time they got back. They
Speaker 3: were not. My mom was just came to the front
Speaker 3: door and she was like, there's going to be groups
Speaker 3: of men laughing and masturbating at your story and just
Speaker 3: laughing and masturbating some kind of but that's like her
Speaker 3: extreme fear, right, And so after that point, I stuck
Speaker 3: with it against what their desires were, and they just
Speaker 3: kind of acted like it wasn't happening. And so for
Speaker 3: the next four years I used to DM people fifty
Speaker 3: people a day through Facebook, through black Planet, and through
Speaker 3: some messenger services and just tell them what I was doing,
Speaker 3: sent the link to my site, and I tried to
Speaker 3: get them to submit their stories. Eventually I collected enough
Speaker 3: stories and then I started looking for publishers. I reached
Speaker 3: out to different sex educators within my city, Toronto. One
Speaker 3: lady named Josie Vogels took me under her wing and
Speaker 3: she introduced me to a literary agent who was then
Speaker 3: able to hook me up with a feminist press in
Speaker 3: California called Seal Press, and that's how I got my
Speaker 3: first book deal.
Speaker 2: Holy Cow, and how old were.
Speaker 3: You twenty four when the first book came out.
Speaker 2: That's huge. Yeah. Way. I usually make us eat the
Speaker 2: soup together, but I was scared it was gonna get cold,
Speaker 2: and the story was good.
Speaker 1: But this soup is amazing, amazing, totally do this at home.
Speaker 1: Like I did not know, I get there is a
Speaker 1: difference between tomato soup and tomato bisk.
Speaker 3: I think this is a good soup. It's so good
Speaker 3: water and all.
Speaker 2: I think the water makes it taste great.
Speaker 3: You might be right, because I'm not feeling it's missing anything.
Speaker 2: Yo, this is perfect. And I love the mozzarella that's
Speaker 2: tomato trunks.
Speaker 1: It's if you're at home, you just literally good a
Speaker 1: can of soup and listen to this story. It's really good, okay, So,
Speaker 1: and I love that it's like not too hot, so
Speaker 1: it's like we could really enjoy it now if we
Speaker 1: were starving, I know you would like it hot, so
Speaker 1: you could eat it slow.
Speaker 3: But we're already eating it slow. This is gonna take
Speaker 3: us ten minutes to finish, even if we're focused.
Speaker 1: I'm like the mom that eats over the sink. I
Speaker 1: don't know what kind of mom you want. I eat
Speaker 1: like this, let's do this. Like I my daughter eats
Speaker 1: cereal on the way to school in the car. Oh,
Speaker 1: yesterday we were driving the car. She's like, Mom, where's
Speaker 1: my cyrial?
Speaker 2: And I was like, oh, it was on top of
Speaker 2: the car. And my guardian's on the phone like I
Speaker 2: guess you're having McDonald's for breakfast, Like so right, you
Speaker 2: want McDonalds. But but no, I make her eat soup
Speaker 2: on the go, Like I'm that mom. That's like, we
Speaker 2: gotta go, we gotta go. You what captain crunch or Flintstones?
Speaker 2: Like which one? Let's take it and slurp the milk
Speaker 2: before it gets a ball over your left.
Speaker 3: My husband's more like that. I'm more of a savor
Speaker 3: because I don't mind being late, which is not a
Speaker 3: positive trait, but I don't mind being late places.
Speaker 2: No, if you hung out with me, you would be
Speaker 2: like annoyed, and I watched the clock.
Speaker 3: Everywhere I live with you. My husband is just like that.
Speaker 3: Literally will get so stressed out and he wants to
Speaker 3: arrive places thirty minutes before so he has an opportunity
Speaker 3: to get in his zone.
Speaker 1: I promise you you do live with me, because if
Speaker 1: I'm on time, I consider it late and I plan
Speaker 1: like if you hung out with me, Like my dad's
Speaker 1: like my obsession with the minute. I'm like, by this minute,
Speaker 1: we should be here and here and here and here,
Speaker 1: And he's like, no one does time subtraction like you
Speaker 1: a time everything. So yes, eating in the car is
Speaker 1: a must, okay, because that's thirty minutes.
Speaker 2: Also, what's it? You don't waste it?
Speaker 1: But anyways, back to your story, I personally don't know
Speaker 1: how it survived because I think I love that like
Speaker 1: you're disagreeable. I've never even heard of that versus someone
Speaker 1: that's like, oh, like me or whatever like me. I
Speaker 1: was a whatever I can do to impress the parents
Speaker 1: or whatever you're on this rebel route, so it actually
Speaker 1: added fuel to your fire. But now, how did it
Speaker 1: feel when you got to tell your parents like I
Speaker 1: got a book deal from this.
Speaker 2: Hmm.
Speaker 3: I don't remember them being happy for me. I don't
Speaker 3: mean that in a bad way. I just mean the
Speaker 3: first time that I remember my parents being happy is
Speaker 3: after my book came out. I had a book launch
Speaker 3: in Toronto and I had about fifty people come. They
Speaker 3: came as well. It was an anthology, so i'd other
Speaker 3: people come and read their stories and they got to
Speaker 3: see it. And my mom didn't see anybody laughing and masturbating.
Speaker 3: She saw people coming up to me and saying, thank you.
Speaker 3: Oh my gosh, this is amazing. I feel so seen.
Speaker 3: I learned a lot. I feel not alone, like this
Speaker 3: book has been so healing. So that was the moment
Speaker 3: for them that they turned around of like, okay, this
Speaker 3: is going to be okay. And but after that point,
Speaker 3: you know, that was twenty four years old. They watched
Speaker 3: me really struggle financially from twenty four till twenty nine
Speaker 3: thirty maybe thirty one two. So for them, you know,
Speaker 3: it was still a scary thing to watch your kid
Speaker 3: go through. But I think they had faith that I
Speaker 3: wasn't going to be physically harmed because of my career profession.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and you stuck shots to the path.
Speaker 3: Not really I did. I mean I did for a bit,
Speaker 3: but I will say I've been around twenty six twenty
Speaker 3: seven or so. I ended up switching to wedding photography.
Speaker 3: So in journalism school you learn a bunch of different,
Speaker 3: you know, skills. Photography was one of them, and I
Speaker 3: started to get a lot of job excuse me, doing
Speaker 3: photography and then weddings is kind of the most you
Speaker 3: can make and I love love, so I really enjoyed it.
Speaker 3: So I was basically doing that and I had almost
Speaker 3: like let go of my dream. I ended up in
Speaker 3: a very toxic relationship with my high school crush. So
Speaker 3: when he asked me out, I knew that he was
Speaker 3: not the right fit. I knew his history, he had
Speaker 3: two kids at the time, but I thought, man, I
Speaker 3: had such a crush on this guy. It would be
Speaker 3: a shame if he wasn't my ex. And I had
Speaker 3: that thought going into it. But you get stuck in
Speaker 3: the toxic loop and they belittle you and they make
Speaker 3: you feel like you can't do any better. And so
Speaker 3: we ended up moving in together. The same week I
Speaker 3: found out that he had been seeing this girl who
Speaker 3: he swore was his best friend from the beginning of
Speaker 3: our relationship, and it was an awful scenario. And so
Speaker 3: I was working my sort of settlement job of a
Speaker 3: wedding photographer and this is La or Not Toronto in Toronto,
Speaker 3: and I was paying the bills for both of us
Speaker 3: because typical toxic and I was just We lived in
Speaker 3: a six hundred square foot apartment, and I knew for
Speaker 3: a fact that I had cried at every square inch
Speaker 3: on the floor at some place at some time. And
Speaker 3: I was just like, I guess this is my life.
Speaker 3: And then a freak email came in from b Et
Speaker 3: who was like, we're doing a show. We're looking for
Speaker 3: a woman sex expert. We saw your book. Do you
Speaker 3: want to come down to LA to audition? And I
Speaker 3: was like absolutely, So I flew out there did the audition.
Speaker 2: He sounds like a negative person.
Speaker 3: Tell him no. He actually was supportive of that. It's
Speaker 3: when it happened that he wasn't. But the idea of it,
Speaker 3: I think yes, And so then I went and I
Speaker 3: shot it.
Speaker 2: I got it.
Speaker 3: But it turns out that the show didn't get picked up,
Speaker 3: which we are in Hollywood, that's ninety percent of the shows, right.
Speaker 3: But what it did allow me to do was have
Speaker 3: a work order that I could then apply for an
Speaker 3: immigration visa. Hey, okay, So I started my application process.
Speaker 3: It took me a year because it's expensive to kind
Speaker 3: of save up for it and submit it. It got approved.
Speaker 3: By that time, I had no reason to move down there.
Speaker 3: I was still living with my ex, and so I
Speaker 3: was like I'll just wait until something comes. And then
Speaker 3: I was just incredibly more miserable as the months went on,
Speaker 3: and I was like, you know what, fuck it. So
Speaker 3: I broke our lease, and I broke our lease in
Speaker 3: a way that the landlord was like, I'm going to
Speaker 3: make sure that you never can rent in Toronto ever again.
Speaker 3: I didn't break up with my ex. I just told
Speaker 3: him that we're going to be long distance. I promised him.
Speaker 3: I was only going for two months just to see
Speaker 3: if I could make something work. And it was really tumultuous,
Speaker 3: but I made the move. My dad drove me down
Speaker 3: with my car and whatever I could fit in it.
Speaker 3: I slept on my friend's couch for a couple of
Speaker 3: weeks and I figured it out and ate.
Speaker 2: Lots of tomato.
Speaker 3: Tomato, tomato, MIESK, what a story.
Speaker 2: Yeah, so then you're here.
Speaker 1: You're not getting the bet job, but you got the
Speaker 1: immigration situation out of it, so that's a win win.
Speaker 1: And you didn't I'm guessing you didn't get paid for
Speaker 1: what you did either, for the bet.
Speaker 3: One you did, but like even like it's two thousand bucks, Yeah,
Speaker 3: it's not going to last you a long enough time. Thankfully.
Speaker 3: I had the photography skills. So when I moved to LA,
Speaker 3: I did under the table, which I'm like, can I
Speaker 3: say that in retrospect of what's happening now. I'm a
Speaker 3: sitizen now, so don't try to come for me ice.
Speaker 3: But I worked under the table doing photo boots, Okay,
Speaker 3: So I used to. I worked for this amazing guy
Speaker 3: and I did photo boots and there's always events happening
Speaker 3: in LA. So that's how I made a way for
Speaker 3: myself and paid my bill while I still tried to
Speaker 3: pursue my passion. And I also went back to school
Speaker 3: to get my sexology certification and my associate and sex
Speaker 3: said during this time, so it was a time of
Speaker 3: deep building and of deep faith. And I think about
Speaker 3: that version of myself every day and thank.
Speaker 2: Her really mm hmm. You think her for the strength
Speaker 2: to like.
Speaker 3: The vision, yeah, oh, the vision, the strength, like yeah,
Speaker 3: like the knowingness, the knowing that this is something that
Speaker 3: people needed, that knowing this that one day that things
Speaker 3: would turn over for me. I was so skinny, like
Speaker 3: I would regularly see people who would be like, are
Speaker 3: you okay? Like I was probably one hundred and twenty
Speaker 3: seven pounds for clarification. I'm one hundred and fifty right now.
Speaker 2: Yeah, So well you're tall too, You're like, are you
Speaker 2: five seven?
Speaker 3: Five eight?
Speaker 2: Okay?
Speaker 3: I was close, Yeah, you were close, but.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I realize you're tall. I was like, okay, but yeah,
Speaker 2: that's that's very slim for five eight. Yeah.
Speaker 3: It was very slim, very malnourished, very like I went through,
Speaker 3: I guess, a period of depression where I just would
Speaker 3: and I could sleep for fourteen hours a day sometimes.
Speaker 1: So you were like hustland, paying the bills but still
Speaker 1: pursuing this dream. Went back to school, and your parents
Speaker 1: from Afar like, yikes, but we.
Speaker 3: Support, Yeah, they did.
Speaker 2: They did.
Speaker 3: My dad loaned me some money too, which I thought
Speaker 3: was a gift until I got on my feet again.
Speaker 3: He was like, I'm gonna eat that back.
Speaker 2: So you gave it back? I did.
Speaker 3: I feel like you actually even put some interest on there,
Speaker 3: because I like, I don't remember boring this, not that
Speaker 3: that's hilarious. But my parents are wonderful. They're both immigrants
Speaker 3: as well, so they understood the grind. And I remember
Speaker 3: actually when I called my dad and I was just
Speaker 3: bawling because it's hard, you know, you'd have no credit
Speaker 3: when you move to this country, so you're starting from scratch.
Speaker 3: So you have to not just like get your power turned.
Speaker 2: To learn credit.
Speaker 3: You got to learn credit.
Speaker 2: Credit is a learning thing.
Speaker 3: You have to drive to the main station, give them
Speaker 3: a cash deposit to try to get your electricity turned
Speaker 3: on because there's no trust in you, and you're mine
Speaker 3: to do my license again. So it's just a lot.
Speaker 3: I call my dad one day, She's like that, this
Speaker 3: is like so hard if I can do it, this
Speaker 3: is too hard, And he was like your grandmother who's
Speaker 3: from Guyana. She immigrated by herself when she had three
Speaker 3: children at home to England. She barely spoke the language
Speaker 3: there because Guyanese English as Patsoa's like very broken, didn't
Speaker 3: know anybody, looked extremely different and didn't have the internet.
Speaker 3: If she could do it, I think you're asking do it?
Speaker 2: Yeah, And I love your dad, you okay, parents, right, Okay,
Speaker 2: I like them. I like them.
Speaker 1: So at what point do you start to see some
Speaker 1: glimmers of you know, like when you see a rock
Speaker 1: and it has the little crystals you start at what
Speaker 1: point do you start to see glimmers of hope? Yeah?
Speaker 3: You know what, I think on your path to your
Speaker 3: dream come true? Is it doesn't happen like how it
Speaker 3: does in the movies, like the Overnight Success. One year
Speaker 3: I moved to la Maybe two to three days that
Speaker 3: year I had dream come true.
Speaker 2: Days.
Speaker 3: I would get booked on the Kiki Palmer Show. She
Speaker 3: had a talk show to be a guest expert. I'd
Speaker 3: have an amazing segment with her. It would feel like
Speaker 3: so much kismet happened. People will be applied me and
Speaker 3: then nothing would happen. But I had the feeling of
Speaker 3: what it felt like to be in my power, in
Speaker 3: my truth and in my purpose. And then the next year,
Speaker 3: maybe you'd have a job that was a week that
Speaker 3: you're like, Oh, this is what I really want. This
Speaker 3: is the feeling. The following year, I got booked on
Speaker 3: BET's Wrap It Up Tour, which was an HIV awareness campaign.
Speaker 3: It didn't pay, but I got to travel around the
Speaker 3: country with other experts I admired, making connections, teaching people, educating,
Speaker 3: and so you kind of get these like little hopes
Speaker 3: along the way, and it goes from a few days
Speaker 3: a year to a week a year. Maybe you have
Speaker 3: a good quarter the next year and the next thing.
Speaker 3: You know, you have half of the year where you're
Speaker 3: doing well and then you look up and you're like, oh,
Speaker 3: I made four hundred thousand dollars this year, Like how
Speaker 3: did that happen?
Speaker 2: Yeah? You got to that point though I.
Speaker 3: Make I consistently make one point, tell it, I do.
Speaker 3: I do very well, tell it.
Speaker 2: And doing what you were designed to do. And you
Speaker 2: fought that journey I did.
Speaker 3: Yeah, So it was it was like again, like I said,
Speaker 3: I always sometimes people ask me questions about ambition right now,
Speaker 3: like how do you stay motivated or how do you
Speaker 3: get up and keep going? It's like, at this point,
Speaker 3: it's very easy, right, I'm so incentivized, I'm so motivated.
Speaker 3: I'm so covered by amazing people like yourself, who it's
Speaker 3: not even just making sud that people care about. It's
Speaker 3: making stuff that people that you admire and respect, who
Speaker 3: see value in it. Like that's the real win. So
Speaker 3: I have so many great motivations to keep going right now.
Speaker 3: So I'm more impressed with the version of myself who
Speaker 3: didn't have any of that, no deadlines, no care, no money,
Speaker 3: no interest, no viewership, but did it anyways?
Speaker 1: Yeah, And what I love about your story too, was.
Speaker 1: Of course, I really try not to research people just
Speaker 1: because I feel like it's easy to stay engaged and fascinated.
Speaker 2: It's your story, and couldn't do.
Speaker 1: It, especially because you had it on your site, so
Speaker 1: it was helpful. But what I like about your story
Speaker 1: is almost like the fairy tale in a sense, just
Speaker 1: from an outside because it's like you're working hard, you
Speaker 1: beat the tides. You went against the grain, which I
Speaker 1: think is the hardest part, which I've emphasized before you
Speaker 1: got here, was like going against the grain at that time,
Speaker 1: like mental health ten fifteen years ago, wasn't like this
Speaker 1: cool advocacy thing, like sex education definitely wasn't.
Speaker 2: A woman definitely wasn't, you know. And so now it's
Speaker 2: a little bit more embraced.
Speaker 1: But when I look at your story, I think it's
Speaker 1: even more beautiful even hearing it. We're in a toxic
Speaker 1: relationship because like it seems to like it all came
Speaker 1: together like in this beautiful package where your mom, your
Speaker 1: husband is a partner too, so it's like you find
Speaker 1: this amazing partner that can also it's not intimidated or
Speaker 1: a freight to embrace. I've seen some really cute videos
Speaker 1: you guys did online about like I don't know, like
Speaker 1: spiffs on like how your relationship.
Speaker 2: Is everything about it to me?
Speaker 3: I love like I love it, you know.
Speaker 2: But it's like for for you see the journey song.
Speaker 2: I hope everyone you know gets the idea of.
Speaker 1: The timeline trusting me in an immigrant way harder than
Speaker 1: I even thought it was hearing it up close, but
Speaker 1: like when you see the whole package come together in
Speaker 1: the end, like the alignment of your partner, the timing
Speaker 1: of the kids and being a mom and all that, like.
Speaker 2: Like, how do you I don't know, cause you have
Speaker 2: ever envisioned it to wrap so perfectly in alignment.
Speaker 3: I guess yes, and no, I mean I guess. I
Speaker 3: remember my toxic ex actually telling me when we lived
Speaker 3: together at twenty eight. He was like, you're not going
Speaker 3: to be successful until you're thirty two, and I was
Speaker 3: like so hurt by that and from his lips to
Speaker 3: the universe's years, like I really didn't kind of figure
Speaker 3: things out until thirty two. I got married at thirty three,
Speaker 3: I had my first kid. At thirty five, I had
Speaker 3: my first, like I said, apartment that I lived in
Speaker 3: by myself that I was able to support solo rent
Speaker 3: at thirty. When I turned thirty, I told people that
Speaker 3: was twenty eight because I was like, there's no way
Speaker 3: I'm going to embarrass myself in La, girl, I know.
Speaker 1: Accomplishment, didn't I don't think I moved out a roommate
Speaker 1: out of my house till I was thirty two. That's
Speaker 1: because I used to always have like a roommate in
Speaker 1: my house, like you know, And then I was like,
Speaker 1: thirty two, that's it.
Speaker 2: I just gotta be got to try living a lowe.
Speaker 2: Yeah you know what I'm saying. Yeah, but like in La,
Speaker 2: it's a huge fee.
Speaker 3: It is. It is a huge feet And I honored
Speaker 3: the version of myself who was like deeply embarrassed, but
Speaker 3: then I would also pull her aside and be like
Speaker 3: you were not alone, and.
Speaker 1: You're pursuing your dreams like you're whooping ass. I was
Speaker 1: an entrepreneur. From you being an entrepreneur to like one
Speaker 1: hundred percent. When okay, you gave up your your wedding photography,
Speaker 1: you went one hundred percent. You were doing like the
Speaker 1: little gigs on the road. Yes, little spots.
Speaker 2: I say little because well I was doing I was
Speaker 2: saying little only because you said.
Speaker 3: That, yeah, weeks days in a time while also doing
Speaker 3: full time photo booth.
Speaker 2: Oh you're still doing it.
Speaker 3: Yeah. So that was a really great job because it
Speaker 3: was flexible, but it was really consistent and I would
Speaker 3: have like travel jobs where I would go to like
Speaker 3: the Chicago Wine Tasting Festival, or I went to Coachella
Speaker 3: when I first moved to LA and I did photo
Speaker 3: booths there for a couple of days. So it took
Speaker 3: me to some really amazing places I remember. Or actually
Speaker 3: I did a photo booth for The Essence Woman in
Speaker 3: Hollywood Brunch, and I met so many people that I
Speaker 3: was like, one day, they're gonna look at me in
Speaker 3: the eyes. Because you don't look at the photo booth girl, Right,
Speaker 3: she doesn't exist, She's just the person. You don't make
Speaker 3: it sound sad you don't remember them. If you probably
Speaker 3: had been to a party with a photo booth and
Speaker 3: try to recall the person who operated it. Right, they're
Speaker 3: a little invisible to you. And so you're seeing all
Speaker 3: these people that you want to be peers with or
Speaker 3: that you want to interview one day, and you just
Speaker 3: kind of know that right now they don't see you.
Speaker 3: One day they will, So I had. I think that
Speaker 3: was a really perfect job for me, and I rode
Speaker 3: that until the wheels fell off, Like I really held
Speaker 3: onto that job until it was super logical that I
Speaker 3: didn't need it anymore.
Speaker 2: Let's get into some of the good stuff. I don't
Speaker 2: know why I feel so low.
Speaker 1: Okay, some of the good more recent stuff. I want
Speaker 1: to touch on Lovers by Shan, But before that, I
Speaker 1: want to talk.
Speaker 2: What is the name Katie back? There is going to
Speaker 2: be clamoring right now. She is it Lovers Island or
Speaker 2: lover Which one is?
Speaker 3: Love Island Island?
Speaker 1: Okay, we got to talk a little bit about that.
Speaker 1: How did that whole thing come about? How did that
Speaker 1: impact your career in any way?
Speaker 3: Well, I wasn't on Love Island, but and also that's
Speaker 3: because they're all the same show. I was on Too
Speaker 3: Hot to Handle, which is like Netflix's version of that.
Speaker 3: I was their workshop expert. No, it's the more popular one.
Speaker 3: I wish I was on Love Island.
Speaker 2: Sorry, I was no use that Lover's Island, so I
Speaker 2: just went with it.
Speaker 3: I'm sorry, Right, it would have been nice in the
Speaker 3: branding world. But yeah, I think like kind of as
Speaker 3: my career picked up and like you said, I'm grateful
Speaker 3: that the way that I was able to forge a path.
Speaker 3: I think in the beginning was difficult because people had
Speaker 3: never heard this career before, and now it's so much
Speaker 3: more common. So when I started in the beginning, there
Speaker 3: wasn't really a lot of people I was competing against
Speaker 3: because there wasn't a lot of jobs. But now it's
Speaker 3: very different. Now that's like a huge market, which is incredible.
Speaker 3: And you probably know a sex educator, a relationship educator,
Speaker 3: a dating coach.
Speaker 2: You're like a pioneer, though one of og.
Speaker 3: I'm not like a doctor Ruth og or doctor Joyce
Speaker 3: on Elders, but I'm definitely a millennial og of that.
Speaker 3: So that job came during the pandemic, actually just before it.
Speaker 3: And yeah, I don't have much to say about it.
Speaker 2: I really don't.
Speaker 3: I really do not. I'm really not a fan of
Speaker 3: the dating shows. They're so fake, as somebody who has
Speaker 3: been on the other side of it, and as somebody
Speaker 3: who earnestly wants to teach people, empower people, help people
Speaker 3: figure out this part of their life, which to me,
Speaker 3: I in the fact that I didn't share about the
Speaker 3: tomato soup, is that the year of twenty fifteen, I
Speaker 3: had bed bugs. I was on the fritz to deportation.
Speaker 3: I legally couldn't work. And then I met Jared and
Speaker 3: who is now my husband, and he was just such
Speaker 3: a bright, brilliant, beautiful light in my life. He was
Speaker 3: the one who came and throughout my furniture with me,
Speaker 3: helped me spray down my apartment, and he was just
Speaker 3: my friends with benefits. At the time. He wasn't even
Speaker 3: a serious relationship, yeah, but he was just kind of
Speaker 3: there and he was there through my transition. He came
Speaker 3: with me on some of my jobs to like photo
Speaker 3: boot stuff because he worked for Denny Treyo for Traios Taco,
Speaker 3: so he knew what it looked like when someone was
Speaker 3: just getting started, and so he really empowered that beginning
Speaker 3: transition from worker to entrepreneur for me, and lat love
Speaker 3: just filled up every part of my life, every bit
Speaker 3: of confidence and self assuredness and safety and someone to
Speaker 3: be there with. I remember there was like a really
Speaker 3: big defining moment where because my immigration thing, I had
Speaker 3: to deport my car and then re import it, which
Speaker 3: the easiest way to do that was to drive to Mexico.
Speaker 3: So I drove by myself to Mexico to deport my car,
Speaker 3: and then I didn't do something at the border because
Speaker 3: I don't know if you know this, When you drive
Speaker 3: to Mexico, it's like driving into Costco. There's nobody who's
Speaker 3: like stopping you to ask for paperwork. You just drive
Speaker 3: on through. So I didn't know that. So I had
Speaker 3: to have gotten my car stamped before I left. But
Speaker 3: because I I didn't realize all. I was all of
Speaker 3: a sudden in Mexico. So now the officer was like,
Speaker 3: you didn't legally export this car, so now you cannot
Speaker 3: import it. So I was stuck at the border. I
Speaker 3: was balling my eyes out. I called one guy. He
Speaker 3: didn't come to the rescue. But there was another guy
Speaker 3: that I was dating who was like very well.
Speaker 2: Off, hilarious.
Speaker 3: He was super well off, very connected. I called him
Speaker 3: and I was like bawling. I'm like I'm stuck. I'm
Speaker 3: so scared of this, and he was like, oh, I'm
Speaker 3: in a meeting right now. I gotta like talk to
Speaker 3: you later. And then that was it, and then I
Speaker 3: didn't even hear from him for hours. I called Jared,
Speaker 3: he was at work. He stopped everything was googling with me,
Speaker 3: like walked me through it. We figured it out. I
Speaker 3: came back that guy other guy called me that night
Speaker 3: and I was like, I'm fine now, right, But I
Speaker 3: just need to say, like that love story was such
Speaker 3: a pivotal component, I think, to that transition in my
Speaker 3: life and also giving me the confidence that I needed
Speaker 3: to say, like, I can tell people to pursue love
Speaker 3: with reckless abandon because it's genuinely worth it. It's so
Speaker 3: worth it, and it creates such a beautiful, lived and
Speaker 3: full enrich life and it really did power my why
Speaker 3: So that allowed me to get insert the amendment, start
Speaker 3: building stuff. So when I finally kind of you know,
Speaker 3: got to a place of getting bigger jobs. And the
Speaker 3: whole goal has always been how do I make sex
Speaker 3: sad sexy? So I love the idea of a reality
Speaker 3: show because in theory, it's amazing, great, you're using sexy singles,
Speaker 3: relatable storylines, like beautiful locations, and now you get to
Speaker 3: like hook them in with some really solid good information.
Speaker 3: But they don't.
Speaker 2: It's like because it's like taped in like two weeks
Speaker 2: and it's like a wham maam thank you man.
Speaker 3: No it's just like so fake, so manufactured. They just
Speaker 3: like want a very particular story told over and over again.
Speaker 3: They don't expand beyond that, they don't really challenge people.
Speaker 3: The people who come to those things genuinely don't really
Speaker 3: want love. They want a social media following at this point.
Speaker 3: So even working with them, there's kind of like a
Speaker 3: hollow ness to it, so you're almost talking over them
Speaker 3: rather than directly to them. And then you see the
Speaker 3: edit and they take out all of the hardy parts anyways,
Speaker 3: and it's just very like ick. So that to be said,
Speaker 3: I hope if I ever do work on a reality
Speaker 3: dating show again, but I'm able to actually have more
Speaker 3: influence in infusing it with more of what it's missing,
Speaker 3: which is heart. Which is a strange sentence to say
Speaker 3: for shows that are about.
Speaker 2: Love maybe Lovers by Shan Brandy, because I know that's
Speaker 2: the podcast, But I'm.
Speaker 1: Saying, maybe you never know you have the power you
Speaker 1: Jared the whole fam Bam. I believe that maybe you
Speaker 1: know you have the power to create the show that.
Speaker 2: You want to see.
Speaker 3: That's actually a really important note for me to say,
Speaker 3: because I only branded myself this year. Before that, I
Speaker 3: was just like, I want to be the Walmart greeter
Speaker 3: of sex. That was my thing because we grew up
Speaker 3: in a time where no one talked about it. So
Speaker 3: I was like, people don't know, people don't know, like
Speaker 3: everybody has to know, and so I'm like, I don't
Speaker 3: even care what walk of life you're from, on interest
Speaker 3: level whatever. I want to be that general store person
Speaker 3: that you just come in for toothpaste and you leave
Speaker 3: with a life changing lesson.
Speaker 2: I love that you actually coined the.
Speaker 3: But during the pandemic, let me tell you, people know
Speaker 3: now right, there was an explosion of relationship podcasts and
Speaker 3: sex podcasts and commentators and it kind of became its
Speaker 3: own industry. And then I quickly realized that there's a
Speaker 3: difference between people who talk about sex and love because
Speaker 3: it's trendy and those who do it because they actually
Speaker 3: want to empower and educate.
Speaker 2: And there's definitely an empower and educate, thank you and
Speaker 2: excited about.
Speaker 3: And then I realized that, like, not only from a
Speaker 3: speaker standpoint, but consumers, some people can consume love island,
Speaker 3: Love is blind, every relationship celebrity drama all day long,
Speaker 3: but they're just watching it for sport, Like some people
Speaker 3: watch basketball religiously but never pick up the ball. And
Speaker 3: so I'm like, I actually don't think I'm for that person.
Speaker 3: I want to be for the person who wants to
Speaker 3: pick up that ball and become great. So Lovers became
Speaker 3: a hub not just for people to learn about love,
Speaker 3: but for people who love love and want to achieve
Speaker 3: their intimate potential to learn about it with me. So
Speaker 3: I only really want to work with people who genuinely
Speaker 3: want this, and I have real skin in the game
Speaker 3: and stick in the game and want to see it
Speaker 3: through beyond the viral moments.
Speaker 1: I love that Lovers by Shan Chef. Look, I'm watching
Speaker 1: to clack too. I respect it Lovers by Shan. Let's
Speaker 1: talk about that whole birth of baby in that whole thing.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I was just essentially that of like I'm forty now,
Speaker 3: so like I'm in my new chapter.
Speaker 2: Thank you.
Speaker 3: You could have had me fooled, but thank you for
Speaker 3: the welcome. Heykay, we're very close. So I think like
Speaker 3: my thirties was, you know, the time I moved to
Speaker 3: Los Angeles, and it was like everybody needs to know.
Speaker 3: My twenties was the same thing. And they put this
Speaker 3: book outs people know and then now my forties, it's like, Okay,
Speaker 3: what is my genuine legacy? Who can I really help
Speaker 3: an impact? How do I do that?
Speaker 2: How do I not do that?
Speaker 3: And how do I not get myself lost in the
Speaker 3: sauce of what's trending right now. So it's just a
Speaker 3: time for me to be more mindful and have start
Speaker 3: the kind of career or restart my career in a
Speaker 3: way that is going to allow me to be here
Speaker 3: for ten more years. So that's what the Lovers by
Speaker 3: Shan branding was. And it's a place where you can
Speaker 3: go to get free quizes and worksheets. I write a
Speaker 3: weekly newsletter which is like a love lesson from me
Speaker 3: each week, usually through a lived experience. I still kept
Speaker 3: up with that same formula for my first book. I
Speaker 3: have my podcast, which is free, and then I also
Speaker 3: have a community which is not free as twenty dollars
Speaker 3: per month, but I give one on ones. I teach
Speaker 3: weekly classes there yeah too. Yeah, and then it's just
Speaker 3: a casual place for us to informally like share, like
Speaker 3: we'll talk about that coldplay a fair thing there. I
Speaker 3: talked about why I'm not talking you know, I'm not
Speaker 3: interviewing people from Love Island, you know. On my platforms,
Speaker 3: I get to kind of have the kinds of discussions
Speaker 3: that I want to have about love with my genuine community,
Speaker 3: not with six hundred thousand people who, like some might
Speaker 3: be into it, some are just there because they saw
Speaker 3: that one viral clip. You know, people who are really
Speaker 3: about this life just like I am.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's a safe place for people to be vulnerable.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Yeah, So I love that your whole thing is centered
Speaker 1: around love and then like the whole package of sex,
Speaker 1: like you know, like what you talked about, like the safety,
Speaker 1: Like I didn't even think about that as a part
Speaker 1: of sex, you know, just those little intricate details.
Speaker 2: So I love everything about your girl. I was excited, okay,
Speaker 2: but thank you guys for tuning in and feeding me
Speaker 2: tomato bisc I know.
Speaker 3: I wanted to actually ask you before we go, because
Speaker 3: I love to learn from people. What is one lesson
Speaker 3: about intimacy, love relationships are dating that you have learned
Speaker 3: through lived experience that you can share with me today?
Speaker 2: Yeahn wow, I don't know. My husband has been giving
Speaker 2: me a room for my money. Girl, I tell you something,
Speaker 2: He's like the polar opposite of me. I don't know.
Speaker 2: I was thinking about you, and I do all my
Speaker 2: thinking in the shower, So that's sound that came out funny.
Speaker 1: But for whatever reason, I do my thinking in the shower.
Speaker 1: But I was thinking about you earlier, not in that way. Guys,
Speaker 1: I think sexual.
Speaker 3: Ask the question again, what's something that you have learned
Speaker 3: about intimacy that I can learn from you?
Speaker 2: Right now?
Speaker 3: It can be something to learn from me. I can
Speaker 3: look what my number one educator is people by far,
Speaker 3: but more than any book, more than any class, more
Speaker 3: than any PhD or master's degree has been people.
Speaker 2: I definitely think safety. Feeling safe, I think, at least
Speaker 2: for me personally, even when you touched on it, I okay, So.
Speaker 1: Hell hell a tmi, hell a tmi. So like I
Speaker 1: me and my girlfriend. I thought I liked sex right.
Speaker 1: I thought I was like, oh I love sex right.
Speaker 1: I lost my virginity late. So me and my girlfriend
Speaker 1: we went to a store. We got like a vibrator,
Speaker 1: like a little butterfly whatever, And then I realized.
Speaker 2: That's not the sex that I God was like, whoa girl?
Speaker 1: I had three guy roommates. When I say like I
Speaker 1: could touch the walls of my house. Like I had
Speaker 1: to turn up the TV because I was like, what
Speaker 1: the fuck? I didn't want nobody to know about this
Speaker 1: little thing I had just discovered. But then I was like,
Speaker 1: I don't think sex is ever going to be the same.
Speaker 1: So anyways, fast forward, shout outs to my hubby I
Speaker 1: in the Butterfly and the Butterfly later on it took
Speaker 1: years later. Again, I'm forty one, I would been buried
Speaker 1: like four years so and anyways, long story short. In
Speaker 1: all of that, I think the sex with my husband
Speaker 1: is probably the best. And I think it's only because
Speaker 1: there was a place of maybe safer comfort or whatever.
Speaker 2: I don't know.
Speaker 1: He was supposed to be my friend's, my f buddy
Speaker 1: or whatever, but somehow I got trapped around, so I
Speaker 1: got trapped. But I think that I guess incorporating some
Speaker 1: level of safety. But when the safety was.
Speaker 2: Removed, because it was my husband's a bad boy. When
Speaker 2: the safety was removed, so did the intimacy. So I
Speaker 2: guess the thing I would.
Speaker 1: Share is probably safety, because the second it was removed,
Speaker 1: all that great feelings kind of dissipated with it.
Speaker 3: Did you grab that lesson from the Crese summer episode.
Speaker 3: That was her big thing of how much her safety
Speaker 3: was tied to her sex drive, but for her safety
Speaker 3: meant an knowingness that tomorrow was going to be okay.
Speaker 2: So that's one hundred percent how I feel.
Speaker 3: Yeah, She's like when she had romantic partners in the
Speaker 3: past who would be stressed about finance, or stressed about
Speaker 3: the future, or just so boggled and overwhelmed by life
Speaker 3: that they weren't able to provide that optimism of like
Speaker 3: I got you, I got us. She's like that my
Speaker 3: sex drive would immediately dry up.
Speaker 2: Oh I wasn't thinking that, but she Maybe I was thinking,
Speaker 2: like my husband could be unpredictable sometimes. M h. I'm like, yo,
Speaker 2: your switch up game just makes me uneasy, like I
Speaker 2: can't It's like I don't know if I could trust
Speaker 2: it and puts me in the defense.
Speaker 1: I guess you could say, but I just learning this
Speaker 1: about myself. Yeah, you know what I'm saying. I'm just
Speaker 1: like kind of trying to figure out like my triggers
Speaker 1: or whatever. But I do notice, like, oh, something's changing,
Speaker 1: and sometimes I'm like, man, maybe I'm just getting old,
Speaker 1: you know.
Speaker 2: But I don't think that's it. I think it's just
Speaker 2: something tied to that unpredictability for me kills it.
Speaker 3: That makes complete logical sense from a biological or an
Speaker 3: animalistic perspective. Right, Like mating doesn't happen during drought, it
Speaker 3: doesn't happen during like seasons of migration. It happens when
Speaker 3: the flowers are out and the birds are chirping and
Speaker 3: the grass is green, and now you have the time
Speaker 3: to actually sit and focus and select a mate. So
Speaker 3: I think if you're worried about your safety or on edge,
Speaker 3: or you're in fight or flight mode, it's very difficult
Speaker 3: to get to calm and connects. That makes a lot
Speaker 3: of sense to me.
Speaker 2: You know, it actually makes even more sense what you say,
Speaker 2: because I didn't get married or have a baby till COVID.
Speaker 2: It took the whole world stopping and like all like
Speaker 2: the I'm an entrepreneur, so every day is a gamble
Speaker 2: kind of sort of saying. I mean, it's stable, but
Speaker 2: for the most part, it's still a gamble. But it
Speaker 2: took like the whole world freezing for me to be
Speaker 2: like hmm, me, yeah, you know, but I feel it.
Speaker 1: I feel it coming back, and I still blame my
Speaker 1: husband for most of it. But I'm just saying, after
Speaker 1: talking to you, I did not know that till this conversation.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think it's a helpful thing to be able
Speaker 3: to communicate to your partner too. So it's like, this
Speaker 3: isn't this mysterious elusive thing, right, Like, this is something
Speaker 3: very tangible and also very much within not just my
Speaker 3: control but your control for us to create an environment
Speaker 3: where I feel like we can share the kind of
Speaker 3: intimacy that we'll both enjoy.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and then I saw this, I got other questions.
Speaker 2: I got three minutes left, Thank you guys for soon
Speaker 2: and in did you have any more questions? No?
Speaker 3: This was great?
Speaker 2: Did I help you it anyway? Of course?
Speaker 3: Yeah, that was a great answer, really really helpful.
Speaker 2: Answered it like kind of right, Yeah, Well because.
Speaker 3: It expanded I think off of what Cree said, right,
Speaker 3: because I think for her it was really tied to
Speaker 3: like not necessarily money per se, but about family security
Speaker 3: and the securedness of their future. But I think that
Speaker 3: yours is talking about emotional security, Like I have to
Speaker 3: feel like tomorrow emotionally we're going to be in a
Speaker 3: good place. And if yesterday was good and the day
Speaker 3: before it was kind of weird, and the week before
Speaker 3: that was really off, but the week before that we
Speaker 3: were really on. I just need more consistency before I
Speaker 3: feel like I can get to a space of genuinely
Speaker 3: feeling like, yeah, let's.
Speaker 2: Fuck yeah, let's fucking make it great? Right? I miss
Speaker 2: the great you know? But okay? Cool? Thank you? Thank
Speaker 2: you for asking me that, because it helped me answer
Speaker 2: a question I didn't even know was there or an answer.
Speaker 3: So cool, all right?
Speaker 2: And then how can everybody keep up with it's lovers
Speaker 2: by saying, God, that's it?
Speaker 3: Period, finish your too, we've done everything?
Speaker 2: Podcast? And is there gonna be more books? Yes? I
Speaker 2: hope so.
Speaker 3: I hope so.
Speaker 1: And maybe hopefully there'll be a show really about love
Speaker 1: and all of that encompasses sex.
Speaker 2: Yeah, so too. I hope so too. Thank you for
Speaker 2: giving me your time. All right? Thanks you out. We're
Speaker 2: gonna finish this suit.
Speaker 3: I'm already done.
Speaker 2: I know. I and I eat fast.
Speaker 3: Ye all right, peace out, guys, gotta be faster than that.
Speaker 2: For more eating.
Speaker 1: While broke from iHeartRadio and The Black Effect, visit the
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Speaker 1: favorite shows,