1
00:00:03,240 --> 00:00:06,280
Speaker 1: Welcome to stuff Mom never told you. From how Stuff

2
00:00:06,280 --> 00:00:14,200
Speaker 1: Works dot Com. Hello, and welcome to the podcast. I'm

3
00:00:14,280 --> 00:00:17,800
Speaker 1: Christmas and I'm Caroline. And Caroline. We've talked about all

4
00:00:17,920 --> 00:00:22,520
Speaker 1: different types of communication and how gender plays a role

5
00:00:22,720 --> 00:00:24,920
Speaker 1: in that, and we're going to do the same thing

6
00:00:24,960 --> 00:00:29,080
Speaker 1: today talking about one of my favorite forms of communication.

7
00:00:30,040 --> 00:00:34,400
Speaker 1: Emoji's nice and it is emoji's not just like emoji

8
00:00:34,479 --> 00:00:38,960
Speaker 1: and emoji as plural. Yeah, so we are deferring to

9
00:00:39,560 --> 00:00:43,320
Speaker 1: the AP style guide as well. We should exactly because

10
00:00:43,320 --> 00:00:47,199
Speaker 1: I'm also an editor, not not just a podcaster. I

11
00:00:47,200 --> 00:00:49,519
Speaker 1: am at my heart, I am an editor. Yeah, and

12
00:00:49,560 --> 00:00:53,760
Speaker 1: the and the AP decided that because of its clarity,

13
00:00:54,040 --> 00:00:59,400
Speaker 1: the plural of emoji is emoji's okay, So listeners, if

14
00:00:59,440 --> 00:01:02,880
Speaker 1: you are an emoji plural user, which I was before

15
00:01:03,000 --> 00:01:07,440
Speaker 1: I learned about the AP style rule, then now now

16
00:01:07,480 --> 00:01:11,800
Speaker 1: we know it'll save you a letter. Thank god, it's settled. Um.

17
00:01:11,840 --> 00:01:14,560
Speaker 1: But we're going to talk about, obviously emojis, but we're

18
00:01:14,560 --> 00:01:20,559
Speaker 1: going to talk to about emoticons and gender and before

19
00:01:20,600 --> 00:01:24,080
Speaker 1: we get into the meat of this conversation, because there

20
00:01:24,120 --> 00:01:27,200
Speaker 1: actually is some important stuff to discuss, and there are

21
00:01:27,240 --> 00:01:31,240
Speaker 1: emojis for meat, yes, particularly like the chicken ling or

22
00:01:31,240 --> 00:01:34,760
Speaker 1: the drumstick. Thank goodness, so I can describe all of

23
00:01:34,760 --> 00:01:37,039
Speaker 1: my meals. That's all I need because I only eat

24
00:01:37,040 --> 00:01:39,440
Speaker 1: it medieval times. So really all I need is that

25
00:01:39,480 --> 00:01:44,240
Speaker 1: turkey leg emogy, and that's that's a pricey meal plan. Caroline, Oh,

26
00:01:44,280 --> 00:01:46,600
Speaker 1: I know it comes with the entertainment. That meat isn't cheap.

27
00:01:47,760 --> 00:01:50,720
Speaker 1: Tell me about it. Um, But I really like, though,

28
00:01:50,840 --> 00:01:54,120
Speaker 1: if we if we go back to pre emoticon days,

29
00:01:54,720 --> 00:01:58,640
Speaker 1: how Vladimir and Nabokov told The New York Times in

30
00:01:59,040 --> 00:02:02,640
Speaker 1: nineteen sixteen, line, I often think there should exist a

31
00:02:02,760 --> 00:02:07,640
Speaker 1: special typographical sign for a smile, a supine round bracket.

32
00:02:07,920 --> 00:02:11,760
Speaker 1: Of course, Nabokov would say, supine round bracket. You not

33
00:02:11,840 --> 00:02:13,639
Speaker 1: a fan? No, I mean I'm a fan. I like

34
00:02:14,440 --> 00:02:16,480
Speaker 1: it's fine, But you know he did write about a

35
00:02:16,520 --> 00:02:19,080
Speaker 1: young girl in a very not so great fashion. Yeah,

36
00:02:19,160 --> 00:02:21,720
Speaker 1: that's true. So what would be the emoji you would

37
00:02:21,800 --> 00:02:25,160
Speaker 1: use to describe your feelings about Lolita then, Caroline, Oh,

38
00:02:25,720 --> 00:02:30,640
Speaker 1: probably the one that's all straight lines across, you know,

39
00:02:30,760 --> 00:02:33,800
Speaker 1: just like two lines for the eyes and one straight

40
00:02:33,840 --> 00:02:36,400
Speaker 1: line for the mouth. Like I enjoyed it, but I'm

41
00:02:36,400 --> 00:02:42,480
Speaker 1: also like m M yeah. See, and and that communicated

42
00:02:42,520 --> 00:02:45,560
Speaker 1: your sentiment to me so effectively. Yeah. But I guess

43
00:02:45,600 --> 00:02:47,760
Speaker 1: I also have that face like a lot of the

44
00:02:48,440 --> 00:02:52,560
Speaker 1: because I actually didn't read Lolita until after college, and

45
00:02:52,680 --> 00:02:54,360
Speaker 1: so once I did read it, and I mean I

46
00:02:54,400 --> 00:02:56,680
Speaker 1: did enjoy it, you know, I did enjoy the writing

47
00:02:56,680 --> 00:03:03,080
Speaker 1: and everything, but I also had that face at thinking

48
00:03:03,120 --> 00:03:06,320
Speaker 1: back at guys who'd recommended Lolita and like the way

49
00:03:06,360 --> 00:03:09,919
Speaker 1: that they recommended it, and it just kind of excused

50
00:03:09,960 --> 00:03:12,360
Speaker 1: me out a little. Same emoji for those guys. Yeah,

51
00:03:12,480 --> 00:03:16,160
Speaker 1: same emogi. Okay, So that's I'm going to consider that

52
00:03:16,320 --> 00:03:21,560
Speaker 1: emoji face now on my phone, the Nabokov, the Caroline,

53
00:03:21,600 --> 00:03:27,960
Speaker 1: the skeptical and somewhat disapproving Caroline emoji. Yes, yes that. Henceforth, listeners,

54
00:03:28,480 --> 00:03:32,200
Speaker 1: it shall be named UM. I really enjoyed though, this

55
00:03:32,520 --> 00:03:37,760
Speaker 1: swift Key sponsored survey that analyzed the most popular emojis

56
00:03:38,160 --> 00:03:41,720
Speaker 1: by country. Um, Australians. I know there's so many of

57
00:03:41,760 --> 00:03:45,080
Speaker 1: you listening. Uh here's the thing, y'all use the most

58
00:03:45,160 --> 00:03:50,840
Speaker 1: simples indicating alcohol nice twice the worldwide average. Apparently also

59
00:03:50,920 --> 00:03:54,960
Speaker 1: above average juice of drug related emojis se above average

60
00:03:55,120 --> 00:03:58,200
Speaker 1: bt dubs um, as well as holidays and junk foods.

61
00:03:58,240 --> 00:04:00,440
Speaker 1: I mean, it sounds like overall Australian are having a

62
00:04:00,480 --> 00:04:03,000
Speaker 1: good time. Y'all are just having a great time. What

63
00:04:03,080 --> 00:04:05,560
Speaker 1: are the drug emojis besides? And they're a pill? Oh

64
00:04:05,600 --> 00:04:08,280
Speaker 1: there's a there's a syringe, isn't there there's a syringe?

65
00:04:08,400 --> 00:04:10,360
Speaker 1: Oh my god. I hope that there's a needle sharing

66
00:04:10,400 --> 00:04:14,600
Speaker 1: program for that syringe emoji. Well, hopefully those emojis are

67
00:04:14,640 --> 00:04:20,599
Speaker 1: just symbolic of you know, feelings and not actual syringes,

68
00:04:20,680 --> 00:04:22,960
Speaker 1: I hope. So it's like, hey, hey, lady, what are

69
00:04:22,960 --> 00:04:25,320
Speaker 1: you doing later tonight? And it's just like fifteen syringes

70
00:04:25,360 --> 00:04:30,679
Speaker 1: and response you would send back the Caroline skeptical phase

71
00:04:30,760 --> 00:04:36,440
Speaker 1: obviously Americans. Meanwhile, I apparently love the egg plant emoji,

72
00:04:37,240 --> 00:04:41,280
Speaker 1: which I have never used. Really, I've never used it

73
00:04:41,440 --> 00:04:45,200
Speaker 1: because for the longest time I didn't understand this is

74
00:04:45,240 --> 00:04:47,719
Speaker 1: like so typical for me. I'm like fifty years behind

75
00:04:47,800 --> 00:04:51,880
Speaker 1: all popular culture, but like I didn't know what the

76
00:04:52,040 --> 00:04:54,440
Speaker 1: egg planet emogi meant. For the longest time, I was like,

77
00:04:54,440 --> 00:04:57,960
Speaker 1: why are these people using the egg plant? I get

78
00:04:58,000 --> 00:05:01,000
Speaker 1: it now, I assure you. People are is wild about

79
00:05:01,000 --> 00:05:05,919
Speaker 1: eggplant parmesan. God, yeah, I love it. Canadians, though, you

80
00:05:06,000 --> 00:05:09,520
Speaker 1: threw the researchers for a loop with your your use

81
00:05:09,680 --> 00:05:14,720
Speaker 1: of money, violence and sports related emoji. Yeah, Canadians, they

82
00:05:14,760 --> 00:05:19,160
Speaker 1: only seem polite under the surface, they're seething with all

83
00:05:19,200 --> 00:05:24,000
Speaker 1: of those knife and gun emojis. UM, and Russians tend

84
00:05:24,000 --> 00:05:26,960
Speaker 1: to send a lot of cold weather symbols, not surprisingly,

85
00:05:27,360 --> 00:05:33,120
Speaker 1: the French apparently send hearts all the time bljere and

86
00:05:33,120 --> 00:05:36,839
Speaker 1: then the Arabic speakers use flowers and plants the most.

87
00:05:36,960 --> 00:05:39,719
Speaker 1: How pleasant it's pleasant. I think they have the you know,

88
00:05:39,880 --> 00:05:43,880
Speaker 1: the most charming emoji's use. Oh well, yeah, I guess

89
00:05:43,880 --> 00:05:46,400
Speaker 1: that is. Yeah, it's more charming than egg plant. But now,

90
00:05:46,520 --> 00:05:50,000
Speaker 1: of course, this is our uh sort of latent request

91
00:05:50,120 --> 00:05:53,480
Speaker 1: to our international listeners to let us know whether this

92
00:05:53,640 --> 00:05:56,640
Speaker 1: survey is reflective of what you think that your national

93
00:05:56,720 --> 00:06:01,040
Speaker 1: emoji style is. Um, but Caroline, talk about you and me.

94
00:06:01,800 --> 00:06:05,719
Speaker 1: What are what are our favorites? Um? Okay. The ones

95
00:06:05,760 --> 00:06:11,359
Speaker 1: that I used the most are either like smiley happy ones.

96
00:06:11,880 --> 00:06:16,479
Speaker 1: That's nice. Um, probably use those the most. Uh. The

97
00:06:16,560 --> 00:06:19,920
Speaker 1: other one I use is like the the anxiety face,

98
00:06:20,520 --> 00:06:24,080
Speaker 1: which it's got like the almost the lightning bolt looking mouth.

99
00:06:24,160 --> 00:06:26,840
Speaker 1: Do you know what I'm talking about. Yes, it's yeah,

100
00:06:26,839 --> 00:06:30,479
Speaker 1: And it's like looking down and like I would you

101
00:06:30,520 --> 00:06:32,960
Speaker 1: know now, I wish we were on our Facebook live

102
00:06:33,120 --> 00:06:35,920
Speaker 1: thing rather than in this podcast studio. Makes it hard

103
00:06:35,960 --> 00:06:40,080
Speaker 1: to I really enjoy listening to you describe emojis keep going.

104
00:06:40,320 --> 00:06:42,160
Speaker 1: But that's the one I use a lot too, for like,

105
00:06:42,200 --> 00:06:44,840
Speaker 1: oh my god, I can't believe this is happening. Are

106
00:06:44,839 --> 00:06:48,200
Speaker 1: there any objects that you use a lot? Are you

107
00:06:48,279 --> 00:06:51,680
Speaker 1: mostly faces? No? I think I'm I think i'm oh, well,

108
00:06:51,760 --> 00:06:54,920
Speaker 1: heart the heart, But other than that, I think I'm

109
00:06:54,920 --> 00:06:57,679
Speaker 1: mostly faces. Yeah, I'm pretty French as well. I send

110
00:06:57,760 --> 00:07:01,520
Speaker 1: a lot of hearts, especially with tweets and just sending

111
00:07:01,560 --> 00:07:04,360
Speaker 1: hearts all the time to our kind stuff. Mom never

112
00:07:04,400 --> 00:07:08,279
Speaker 1: told you friends online and Caroline. I have my phone

113
00:07:08,360 --> 00:07:10,720
Speaker 1: with me so that I can look at my most

114
00:07:10,800 --> 00:07:14,480
Speaker 1: recently used emojis. Let's see what we've got here. It's

115
00:07:14,520 --> 00:07:18,239
Speaker 1: probably hearts. You used used some flames in a text

116
00:07:18,240 --> 00:07:20,560
Speaker 1: to me the other day. Oh yeah, I like the flames.

117
00:07:20,680 --> 00:07:24,680
Speaker 1: Let's see my most my frequently used are all of

118
00:07:24,720 --> 00:07:29,640
Speaker 1: the hearts, every single heart variety, the laugh crying emoji

119
00:07:29,960 --> 00:07:34,440
Speaker 1: one hundred, the flame, the dancing woman, um, and the taco.

120
00:07:36,080 --> 00:07:39,960
Speaker 1: I mean, that really sums up my life. The taco

121
00:07:40,040 --> 00:07:42,080
Speaker 1: was one of the new editions, right, one of the

122
00:07:42,120 --> 00:07:45,440
Speaker 1: because I haven't updated my iOS in like seventeen years,

123
00:07:45,480 --> 00:07:48,760
Speaker 1: which is impressive considering the iPhone. I wonder you just

124
00:07:48,840 --> 00:07:51,560
Speaker 1: use the faces you got to get the Is there

125
00:07:51,760 --> 00:07:55,680
Speaker 1: is there a unicorn yet? Yes? Oh my god. Okay,

126
00:07:56,000 --> 00:07:58,760
Speaker 1: let me just like do a little like quantum leap

127
00:07:58,880 --> 00:08:01,280
Speaker 1: and come back in time and say that the unicorn

128
00:08:01,720 --> 00:08:03,800
Speaker 1: is and will be my most used one as soon

129
00:08:03,840 --> 00:08:05,800
Speaker 1: as I update my iOS. It's just such a pain,

130
00:08:05,840 --> 00:08:08,600
Speaker 1: and like, my phone is so full of crap and

131
00:08:08,640 --> 00:08:15,480
Speaker 1: you need so much space to update tiny violence for you.

132
00:08:15,720 --> 00:08:19,320
Speaker 1: I'm not I'm not living my best life. Okay. So

133
00:08:19,840 --> 00:08:22,960
Speaker 1: listeners might be wondering, now, though, why on earth would

134
00:08:23,000 --> 00:08:27,080
Speaker 1: we be talking about emojis? How can that possibly be serious?

135
00:08:27,080 --> 00:08:29,080
Speaker 1: How can that possibly relate to stuff I've never told

136
00:08:29,120 --> 00:08:32,320
Speaker 1: you at all? It's so frivolous, right well, I mean yeah,

137
00:08:32,400 --> 00:08:35,960
Speaker 1: it could seem frivolous, but in a way, emoji are

138
00:08:36,000 --> 00:08:38,439
Speaker 1: really changing how we communicate with each other. I mean,

139
00:08:38,880 --> 00:08:44,040
Speaker 1: just look at how the Oxford Dictionary Word of the

140
00:08:44,120 --> 00:08:47,800
Speaker 1: Year was not a word. It was the cry laughing

141
00:08:47,840 --> 00:08:53,440
Speaker 1: emoji and no surprise because people have posted that emoji

142
00:08:53,480 --> 00:08:57,560
Speaker 1: to Twitter alone more than one billion times. Yeah, I

143
00:08:57,559 --> 00:09:01,480
Speaker 1: mean emoji, just like emoticons before of them, help people

144
00:09:01,559 --> 00:09:07,360
Speaker 1: communicate to each other the sense that like the subtext

145
00:09:07,520 --> 00:09:09,439
Speaker 1: to a message or a tweet. I mean, it totally

146
00:09:09,520 --> 00:09:13,800
Speaker 1: makes sense that they are helping kind of bolster our communication. Absolutely,

147
00:09:13,840 --> 00:09:17,520
Speaker 1: because you have so little context for text messages. You

148
00:09:17,520 --> 00:09:21,280
Speaker 1: don't get in tone inflection and oh man, if you

149
00:09:21,320 --> 00:09:24,160
Speaker 1: get a text from someone and it ends in a period,

150
00:09:24,720 --> 00:09:28,880
Speaker 1: does that mean no. I I just yesterday send an

151
00:09:28,920 --> 00:09:31,280
Speaker 1: email to a co worker with a joke in it

152
00:09:31,320 --> 00:09:34,600
Speaker 1: and had a winky face, and when he responded, he

153
00:09:34,760 --> 00:09:38,960
Speaker 1: had no winky face, and so I took his his

154
00:09:39,080 --> 00:09:42,360
Speaker 1: response as serious and answered him as such. And then

155
00:09:42,400 --> 00:09:43,959
Speaker 1: when he replied to me again, he was like, I

156
00:09:44,000 --> 00:09:45,760
Speaker 1: can't believe you didn't get my joke. I can't believe

157
00:09:45,800 --> 00:09:48,960
Speaker 1: you took that seriously. I was like, bro, Bro, You've

158
00:09:48,960 --> 00:09:52,000
Speaker 1: got to have an emoticon. Ya. Sarcasm is challenging for

159
00:09:52,080 --> 00:09:57,640
Speaker 1: me to detect in text only format. Um Also, though,

160
00:09:57,800 --> 00:10:00,520
Speaker 1: when it comes to gender, there's and a lot of

161
00:10:00,559 --> 00:10:04,640
Speaker 1: conversation in the weeks leading up to when we're recording

162
00:10:04,640 --> 00:10:10,839
Speaker 1: this podcast about how emojis seemed to perpetuate gender stereotypes

163
00:10:11,320 --> 00:10:15,559
Speaker 1: and as for why something is seemingly insignificant as these

164
00:10:15,600 --> 00:10:19,400
Speaker 1: old characters on our phone might seem. Uh, Sophie Cleman

165
00:10:19,559 --> 00:10:22,640
Speaker 1: over at Mike says, they are worth talking about quote

166
00:10:22,760 --> 00:10:25,600
Speaker 1: because it's a small, yet clear example of a social

167
00:10:25,720 --> 00:10:30,000
Speaker 1: scheme but still manages to reinforce traditional gender stereotypes at

168
00:10:30,000 --> 00:10:33,840
Speaker 1: every term, even when the issue is as seemingly innocuous

169
00:10:33,920 --> 00:10:37,640
Speaker 1: as a tiny digital face. WHOA. So people are saying

170
00:10:38,600 --> 00:10:41,320
Speaker 1: that emojis are sexist or that they're being used in

171
00:10:41,360 --> 00:10:44,760
Speaker 1: sexist ways. Not well, they might be used in sexist ways,

172
00:10:44,800 --> 00:10:48,760
Speaker 1: that depends on the individual, but more that they Yeah,

173
00:10:48,800 --> 00:10:53,040
Speaker 1: they're kind of subtly sexist by only providing a very

174
00:10:53,160 --> 00:10:58,320
Speaker 1: narrow and stereotypical representation of the girl emojis as like

175
00:10:58,360 --> 00:11:03,760
Speaker 1: the princess and the bride rather than a lady police officer, yeah,

176
00:11:03,960 --> 00:11:08,319
Speaker 1: dancing woman, and most of the active emojis, the sports

177
00:11:08,320 --> 00:11:10,400
Speaker 1: ones like the bike rider and the swimmer, all that

178
00:11:10,880 --> 00:11:14,720
Speaker 1: all dudes, all boy emojis. The basketball player looks like

179
00:11:14,760 --> 00:11:16,959
Speaker 1: it might be a girl, but upun closer inspection it's

180
00:11:17,000 --> 00:11:21,679
Speaker 1: just a guy with shaggy hair, you know, so always.

181
00:11:22,240 --> 00:11:27,920
Speaker 1: The Maxi Pad company did a whole ad campaign around this,

182
00:11:28,200 --> 00:11:31,360
Speaker 1: created by Leo Burnett, which is brilliant. They were the

183
00:11:31,440 --> 00:11:35,880
Speaker 1: ones who started the whole like a girl hashtag campaign

184
00:11:36,120 --> 00:11:38,920
Speaker 1: a little while back that went viral, and now they're

185
00:11:38,960 --> 00:11:41,680
Speaker 1: doing the same thing with emojis. And it's a good

186
00:11:41,760 --> 00:11:44,480
Speaker 1: video and it like gives girls phones and has them

187
00:11:44,480 --> 00:11:46,680
Speaker 1: talking about their emoji use and kind of points out

188
00:11:46,720 --> 00:11:50,040
Speaker 1: how there aren't many girl emojis that are active and

189
00:11:50,080 --> 00:11:52,360
Speaker 1: reflect like what they do on a day to day basis,

190
00:11:52,440 --> 00:11:54,400
Speaker 1: and the you know, the girls getting mad about it,

191
00:11:54,400 --> 00:11:57,280
Speaker 1: they get fired up. Yeah, I love angry women. But

192
00:11:57,400 --> 00:12:00,360
Speaker 1: before we get like even angrier about gender stereo typical

193
00:12:00,440 --> 00:12:03,840
Speaker 1: use of emojis or gender stereotypical emojis at all period,

194
00:12:04,160 --> 00:12:06,560
Speaker 1: we should probably inform the people of where emojis even

195
00:12:06,600 --> 00:12:09,079
Speaker 1: came from. Yeah, that's a good idea. We'd love to

196
00:12:09,080 --> 00:12:12,760
Speaker 1: talk about history, right, we love history, especially smiley face history.

197
00:12:12,840 --> 00:12:17,120
Speaker 1: So the thing is humans have been all about pictorial

198
00:12:17,200 --> 00:12:21,240
Speaker 1: representations of words since pretty much forever. I mean before

199
00:12:21,320 --> 00:12:25,360
Speaker 1: we had like the Phoenician alphabet, we had hieroglyphics, and

200
00:12:25,400 --> 00:12:30,640
Speaker 1: other kinds of images to get our points across um

201
00:12:30,679 --> 00:12:34,400
Speaker 1: and so for that reason, though, emojis are sometimes derisively

202
00:12:34,480 --> 00:12:37,640
Speaker 1: referred to as the new hieroglyphics. Oh, we're taking our

203
00:12:37,679 --> 00:12:44,920
Speaker 1: culture step backward. Oh why not? I like hieroglyphics. Pizza emoji. Yeah,

204
00:12:44,960 --> 00:12:47,560
Speaker 1: the dancing lady and the pizza emoji, just to know

205
00:12:47,640 --> 00:12:50,920
Speaker 1: the set in a night. That's Carol hieroglyphics. What about

206
00:12:50,920 --> 00:12:53,439
Speaker 1: a little wineglass too? Oh yeah, no, bring it all.

207
00:12:53,600 --> 00:12:55,720
Speaker 1: Oh that is another one I use. I do use

208
00:12:55,760 --> 00:12:58,160
Speaker 1: the drinking drink ees, although I do send the drinking

209
00:12:58,240 --> 00:13:02,600
Speaker 1: drinkies to friends sometimes my boyfriend. My boyfriend is sober,

210
00:13:02,640 --> 00:13:05,079
Speaker 1: but he does make a great cocktail for me. So

211
00:13:05,559 --> 00:13:08,440
Speaker 1: but anyway, yeah, sorry, we got off track yet again. Well,

212
00:13:08,440 --> 00:13:12,040
Speaker 1: steering us back on track, we have Adam Sternberg, helpfully

213
00:13:12,120 --> 00:13:18,040
Speaker 1: over at New York Magazine, who dives into that prehistoric

214
00:13:19,160 --> 00:13:23,040
Speaker 1: pictorial representation of our words. So first, as he notes,

215
00:13:23,080 --> 00:13:26,160
Speaker 1: we had something called pictograms, which are essentially pictures of

216
00:13:26,200 --> 00:13:31,040
Speaker 1: actual things, like when you draw a sunshine indicating a sunshine,

217
00:13:31,800 --> 00:13:35,680
Speaker 1: and these go back to ancient Mesopotamia, China, and Egypt.

218
00:13:35,960 --> 00:13:39,600
Speaker 1: And then from there we figure out things called logograms,

219
00:13:39,880 --> 00:13:43,040
Speaker 1: which are pictures to symbolize words, kind of like the

220
00:13:43,120 --> 00:13:47,319
Speaker 1: money symbols, like a dollar sign or you're a signer exactly, Caroline,

221
00:13:48,520 --> 00:13:53,120
Speaker 1: I'm picking up on it. And then finally we have ideograms,

222
00:13:53,160 --> 00:13:58,160
Speaker 1: which are pictures to represent an idea, which might translate

223
00:13:58,240 --> 00:14:03,280
Speaker 1: an emoji speak to say, the nail painting emoji if

224
00:14:03,360 --> 00:14:06,000
Speaker 1: you are meaning I just don't have time to listen

225
00:14:06,080 --> 00:14:09,680
Speaker 1: to you right now. Oh, I used that to symbolize

226
00:14:09,679 --> 00:14:13,240
Speaker 1: an actual manicure the other day. Am I too literal?

227
00:14:15,640 --> 00:14:18,160
Speaker 1: That's the thing, though, that people love about emojis is

228
00:14:18,200 --> 00:14:21,560
Speaker 1: that they're open to interpretation. I like, though, I like

229
00:14:21,640 --> 00:14:23,080
Speaker 1: the idea of using that to me, and I just

230
00:14:23,200 --> 00:14:26,560
Speaker 1: I just ain't got time to listen to you. And

231
00:14:26,640 --> 00:14:30,600
Speaker 1: one bit of emoji prehistory I really enjoyed was from

232
00:14:30,640 --> 00:14:34,120
Speaker 1: a piece that Clive Thompson wrote in Woman's zene Um.

233
00:14:34,160 --> 00:14:38,640
Speaker 1: He notes how in the eighteenth century especially, people really

234
00:14:38,640 --> 00:14:41,680
Speaker 1: love these things called Rebus puzzles, which are kind of

235
00:14:41,720 --> 00:14:45,960
Speaker 1: like proto emoji or is. He describes them deep history

236
00:14:46,080 --> 00:14:51,280
Speaker 1: ancestors of emojis. So the emogi equivalent of a Rebus

237
00:14:51,320 --> 00:14:55,400
Speaker 1: puzzle would be, say, like using emojis only to ask

238
00:14:55,440 --> 00:14:58,880
Speaker 1: someone out for like pizza and wine. So maybe you'd

239
00:14:58,880 --> 00:15:01,920
Speaker 1: send like a emoji of two people and then a car,

240
00:15:02,040 --> 00:15:04,880
Speaker 1: and then a slice of pizza, and then a glass

241
00:15:04,880 --> 00:15:07,680
Speaker 1: of wine and then a question mark. Oh yeah, no,

242
00:15:07,800 --> 00:15:09,680
Speaker 1: I remember those, Okay, I never knew what they were.

243
00:15:09,720 --> 00:15:14,280
Speaker 1: Called Rebus Puzzles. Yeah, my one of my mom's favorite books. Actually,

244
00:15:14,320 --> 00:15:17,200
Speaker 1: if you ever come over to my parents house with it,

245
00:15:17,240 --> 00:15:19,680
Speaker 1: just without you, just to hang out, she may very

246
00:15:19,680 --> 00:15:22,640
Speaker 1: well show you this book called c dB and it's

247
00:15:22,680 --> 00:15:26,360
Speaker 1: a book of Rebus puzzles. And so c dB, you

248
00:15:26,400 --> 00:15:28,520
Speaker 1: have the letter C and then the letter D and

249
00:15:28,560 --> 00:15:31,160
Speaker 1: then a picture of a B and it's this whole

250
00:15:31,200 --> 00:15:35,440
Speaker 1: story told through Rebus puzzles, and she just she loves it. No,

251
00:15:35,520 --> 00:15:37,960
Speaker 1: I remember those as kids. My dad and I used

252
00:15:38,000 --> 00:15:40,800
Speaker 1: to like, you know, quote unquote read them or I

253
00:15:40,800 --> 00:15:43,880
Speaker 1: guess you're literally reading them before bed. And I remember

254
00:15:43,880 --> 00:15:46,520
Speaker 1: getting like super upset if they were too easy to

255
00:15:46,560 --> 00:15:49,440
Speaker 1: figure out. I wanted like every word to be an

256
00:15:49,480 --> 00:15:53,080
Speaker 1: image almost well, and they are fun to figure out,

257
00:15:53,160 --> 00:15:57,120
Speaker 1: and they take some mental prowess to decipher. But the

258
00:15:57,160 --> 00:16:01,040
Speaker 1: thing is, Caroline much like today, back in the eighteenth century,

259
00:16:01,040 --> 00:16:04,000
Speaker 1: and they existed before the eighteenth century. But back then,

260
00:16:05,160 --> 00:16:10,320
Speaker 1: Rebus puzzle snobs considered those picture messages suitable only for

261
00:16:10,400 --> 00:16:15,960
Speaker 1: dullards and children, kind of like people whoop poop poo emoji. Today. Oh,

262
00:16:17,280 --> 00:16:20,080
Speaker 1: I just enjoy emogie so much. Yeah, but I mean

263
00:16:20,080 --> 00:16:22,120
Speaker 1: it's the people who would refer to them as so

264
00:16:22,280 --> 00:16:24,680
Speaker 1: there's just some new hieroglyphics, so kids don't know how

265
00:16:24,720 --> 00:16:28,480
Speaker 1: to write words anymore. Although I think that that's kind

266
00:16:28,520 --> 00:16:31,200
Speaker 1: of a separate issue. Yeah, yeah, that is a separate issue.

267
00:16:31,760 --> 00:16:33,760
Speaker 1: But now I get to leap forward in time to

268
00:16:33,840 --> 00:16:38,040
Speaker 1: everyone's favorite decade right now, the nine nineties, Yes, Kristen,

269
00:16:38,080 --> 00:16:42,000
Speaker 1: that's right, the era of Neon wind suits and Zach

270
00:16:42,120 --> 00:16:45,800
Speaker 1: Morris um. But in the mid nineties in Japan, there

271
00:16:45,840 --> 00:16:48,800
Speaker 1: was this guy named Suga Taka Kurita who's working for

272
00:16:48,880 --> 00:16:53,240
Speaker 1: DoCoMo pagers and he gets this idea. He has the

273
00:16:53,360 --> 00:16:58,560
Speaker 1: idea that users might like little cartoons symbols to communicate

274
00:16:58,600 --> 00:17:01,960
Speaker 1: with each other. And the first that he helps develop

275
00:17:02,080 --> 00:17:05,919
Speaker 1: is a cartoon heart. And this, my friends, is histories

276
00:17:06,160 --> 00:17:10,160
Speaker 1: first emoji. So cute. I imagine it would be so cute.

277
00:17:10,160 --> 00:17:11,520
Speaker 1: I like to imagine a little black and white like

278
00:17:11,560 --> 00:17:14,960
Speaker 1: pixelated heart. My heart is pixelated for you, I mean,

279
00:17:15,000 --> 00:17:17,840
Speaker 1: and surely you would be excited about that, because pagers,

280
00:17:20,359 --> 00:17:24,560
Speaker 1: you know, they're rather unimpressive. Like I can spell hello

281
00:17:24,800 --> 00:17:27,960
Speaker 1: with with numbers only. That's almost as exciting as when

282
00:17:28,000 --> 00:17:30,520
Speaker 1: you were a kid and learned to spell blood on

283
00:17:30,600 --> 00:17:34,240
Speaker 1: your calculator. Anybody remember that? Yeah, I thought you were

284
00:17:34,240 --> 00:17:36,119
Speaker 1: going to talk about spelling blood with your fingers. I

285
00:17:36,200 --> 00:17:38,320
Speaker 1: still can't do that. I learned that in high school

286
00:17:39,520 --> 00:17:43,040
Speaker 1: because I was home schooled, right. And then as DoCoMo

287
00:17:43,119 --> 00:17:46,680
Speaker 1: and others entered the cell phone game, the company expanded

288
00:17:46,680 --> 00:17:50,840
Speaker 1: its emoji roster to one hundred and seventies six that

289
00:17:51,000 --> 00:17:53,040
Speaker 1: they were mostly faces, but you also had things like

290
00:17:53,119 --> 00:17:57,040
Speaker 1: musical notes and stuff like that because kids kids those days,

291
00:17:57,320 --> 00:18:01,359
Speaker 1: kids those days loved to be able to use these

292
00:18:01,400 --> 00:18:05,560
Speaker 1: early emojis to clarify messages and avoid misunderstanding the same

293
00:18:05,600 --> 00:18:09,040
Speaker 1: reason we would use them today. But since those early

294
00:18:09,080 --> 00:18:13,520
Speaker 1: emoji were proprietary to DoCoMo, they showed up as what

295
00:18:13,560 --> 00:18:16,560
Speaker 1: are referred to as garbage characters, which is what I

296
00:18:16,600 --> 00:18:19,639
Speaker 1: also like to refer to rude people as um on

297
00:18:19,880 --> 00:18:24,080
Speaker 1: non DoCoMo devices. And this reminds me actually of one

298
00:18:24,080 --> 00:18:26,560
Speaker 1: of my best guy friends had an old phone for

299
00:18:26,600 --> 00:18:29,639
Speaker 1: so long, and I love texting emoji to him because

300
00:18:29,640 --> 00:18:31,639
Speaker 1: he would just get strings of garbage characters and it

301
00:18:31,640 --> 00:18:37,200
Speaker 1: would frustrate him to no end. Um. But as emoji

302
00:18:37,240 --> 00:18:40,320
Speaker 1: popularity picks up, and also the Japanese cell phone market

303
00:18:40,400 --> 00:18:44,359
Speaker 1: starts booming, you have this group called Unicode standard step

304
00:18:44,400 --> 00:18:48,400
Speaker 1: in and Unicode is a nonprofit volunteer group founded by

305
00:18:48,720 --> 00:18:53,800
Speaker 1: a Google guy named Mark Davis that standardizes digital text

306
00:18:53,880 --> 00:18:57,200
Speaker 1: across different software. So it's kind of like the Rosetta

307
00:18:57,240 --> 00:19:02,000
Speaker 1: Stone for digital text. Um. And essentially they're the ones

308
00:19:02,040 --> 00:19:05,240
Speaker 1: that we can thank for. You know, me sending my

309
00:19:05,400 --> 00:19:07,440
Speaker 1: mom and emoji. She has a different type of cell

310
00:19:07,440 --> 00:19:09,600
Speaker 1: phone and she gets, you know, the emoji and not

311
00:19:09,720 --> 00:19:12,840
Speaker 1: a garbage character. Um. Yeah, I don't don't hurt your

312
00:19:12,840 --> 00:19:15,440
Speaker 1: mom's feelings by sending her a garbage character. I never

313
00:19:15,480 --> 00:19:20,160
Speaker 1: would never would. Um. But Unicode, which I'm only noting

314
00:19:20,160 --> 00:19:22,960
Speaker 1: this because it will be relevant in a moment. Unicode,

315
00:19:22,960 --> 00:19:26,320
Speaker 1: which is overwhelmingly dudes. This is back in the day.

316
00:19:26,320 --> 00:19:30,600
Speaker 1: Still they were aware of DoCoMo and its emojis, but

317
00:19:30,680 --> 00:19:33,880
Speaker 1: they suspected that it was just gonna be a passing fad.

318
00:19:33,960 --> 00:19:37,639
Speaker 1: But of course it wasn't so. Fast forward to the

319
00:19:37,680 --> 00:19:41,280
Speaker 1: two thousands and US telecom vendors really want to start

320
00:19:41,280 --> 00:19:47,600
Speaker 1: working with Japanese characters, but all of the emoji proprietary

321
00:19:47,680 --> 00:19:51,480
Speaker 1: issues and the garbage characters are causing problems. So Unicode

322
00:19:51,480 --> 00:19:54,320
Speaker 1: steps in and they standardize everything in two thousand seven,

323
00:19:54,920 --> 00:19:58,320
Speaker 1: And when Apple releases its iPhone that year, it actually

324
00:19:58,520 --> 00:20:02,199
Speaker 1: buried an emoji keyboard in that phone to appeal to

325
00:20:02,280 --> 00:20:05,919
Speaker 1: Japanese consumers, and they were like, Americans aren't gonna care

326
00:20:05,960 --> 00:20:07,840
Speaker 1: about this or just gonna like bury it, But of

327
00:20:07,880 --> 00:20:11,960
Speaker 1: course we all know that it was unburied in the

328
00:20:12,040 --> 00:20:17,120
Speaker 1: rest's history. Well, so buried along with all of those

329
00:20:17,160 --> 00:20:22,320
Speaker 1: emojis is the smiley poop, which, fun fact, I never

330
00:20:22,400 --> 00:20:26,600
Speaker 1: knew this. It's actually considered good luck because the Japanese

331
00:20:26,640 --> 00:20:29,680
Speaker 1: love buns just as much as we do, and their

332
00:20:29,720 --> 00:20:31,800
Speaker 1: word for poop sounds a lot like the word for luck,

333
00:20:31,840 --> 00:20:35,200
Speaker 1: and so why not have fun and make the poop

334
00:20:35,240 --> 00:20:38,160
Speaker 1: symbol a symbol of good luck. Yeah, so that's why

335
00:20:38,359 --> 00:20:42,520
Speaker 1: the poop symbol exists in our emoji vocabulary. I never

336
00:20:42,640 --> 00:20:46,080
Speaker 1: questioned it. Maybe, yeah, maybe that's just something bad about me,

337
00:20:46,160 --> 00:20:48,640
Speaker 1: but I never questioned it. I just accepted that there

338
00:20:48,720 --> 00:20:52,240
Speaker 1: was a smiley, googly eyed poop pile. Well, apparently the

339
00:20:52,280 --> 00:20:56,840
Speaker 1: googly eyes were an add on from some Apple designers

340
00:20:56,840 --> 00:20:59,959
Speaker 1: somewhere along the way. But um, yeah, there is significant

341
00:21:00,160 --> 00:21:02,240
Speaker 1: to the poop emoji and this changes the whole meaning

342
00:21:02,320 --> 00:21:04,600
Speaker 1: it's the symbol of good luck. Yeah, I was gonna say,

343
00:21:05,119 --> 00:21:06,919
Speaker 1: I was gonna say that the google eyes make it

344
00:21:06,920 --> 00:21:13,879
Speaker 1: more palatable. Yeah, but not so much. Um, But people

345
00:21:14,000 --> 00:21:19,200
Speaker 1: that might still be wondering, like, ladies, ladies, ladies, where

346
00:21:19,320 --> 00:21:21,440
Speaker 1: is the sexism here? Are you saying that the poop

347
00:21:21,440 --> 00:21:23,639
Speaker 1: emoji is sexist or something that it's looking at you

348
00:21:23,680 --> 00:21:26,760
Speaker 1: the wrong way? What could possibly be going on? Why

349
00:21:26,760 --> 00:21:29,480
Speaker 1: am I always getting cat called by piles of crap

350
00:21:29,520 --> 00:21:33,200
Speaker 1: on the street. Well, I mean fast forward to today

351
00:21:33,720 --> 00:21:36,320
Speaker 1: and you have this rampant use of emojis, and it's

352
00:21:36,359 --> 00:21:40,639
Speaker 1: and they're especially popular of course among younger kids, and

353
00:21:40,920 --> 00:21:46,040
Speaker 1: those younger kids are seeing all of these gender stereotypical emoji.

354
00:21:46,119 --> 00:21:48,959
Speaker 1: I mean, what can what can you be when you

355
00:21:49,000 --> 00:21:52,920
Speaker 1: grow up? If you're a girl, according to the emoji alphabet,

356
00:21:53,000 --> 00:21:56,120
Speaker 1: you could be like a dancer, You could be someone

357
00:21:56,160 --> 00:21:58,280
Speaker 1: who looks kind of like a playboy, bunny like the

358
00:21:58,320 --> 00:22:02,040
Speaker 1: Twinsies one. Yeah, one's always been a little curious to me. Um,

359
00:22:02,080 --> 00:22:04,760
Speaker 1: you could work at a salon, or be a princess

360
00:22:04,840 --> 00:22:07,680
Speaker 1: or a bride. Yeah, well, I mean, what more could

361
00:22:07,680 --> 00:22:10,960
Speaker 1: a woman want? Honestly? Well, and there's the hair flip emoji, which,

362
00:22:11,040 --> 00:22:14,439
Speaker 1: as you pointed out, what was it actually? Yeah, so

363
00:22:14,480 --> 00:22:17,160
Speaker 1: the hair flip emoji, which, by the way, the other night,

364
00:22:17,160 --> 00:22:19,800
Speaker 1: when I was looking at the sources, I had to

365
00:22:19,840 --> 00:22:23,480
Speaker 1: text Kristen and I included the hair flip emoji, and

366
00:22:23,520 --> 00:22:26,879
Speaker 1: I said, it is this one, the hair flip emoji.

367
00:22:27,359 --> 00:22:29,440
Speaker 1: I never knew what she was. She's got like her

368
00:22:29,480 --> 00:22:31,800
Speaker 1: hand up by her shoulder like you should be placing

369
00:22:31,840 --> 00:22:34,800
Speaker 1: a tray onto it or something like. She works for

370
00:22:34,840 --> 00:22:39,240
Speaker 1: a catering company. And I was reading something that was

371
00:22:39,320 --> 00:22:42,040
Speaker 1: saying that like, oh, you know, we love our emoji

372
00:22:42,119 --> 00:22:45,720
Speaker 1: so much, but we want them to mean more than

373
00:22:45,760 --> 00:22:49,480
Speaker 1: perhaps they were intended to mean, and so we've renamed

374
00:22:49,520 --> 00:22:52,119
Speaker 1: the service desk woman the hair flip emoji. And I

375
00:22:52,160 --> 00:22:54,440
Speaker 1: was like, what what? What did any of these things

376
00:22:54,480 --> 00:22:56,200
Speaker 1: mean that I just read? And so I went down

377
00:22:56,200 --> 00:22:58,959
Speaker 1: a little internet rabbit hole and discover which I mean,

378
00:22:59,000 --> 00:23:00,760
Speaker 1: I don't know a lot of people already know this.

379
00:23:00,880 --> 00:23:04,199
Speaker 1: I did not know any of this, um but the

380
00:23:04,240 --> 00:23:07,399
Speaker 1: woman that symbolizes the hair flip of like again, I

381
00:23:07,400 --> 00:23:09,040
Speaker 1: don't have time to listen to you, or like I'm

382
00:23:09,040 --> 00:23:12,280
Speaker 1: feeling so hot today. She she was meant to be

383
00:23:12,320 --> 00:23:14,639
Speaker 1: like a helpful lady behind a desk, pointing you in

384
00:23:14,640 --> 00:23:18,120
Speaker 1: the right direction. Who knew and here to me, she's

385
00:23:18,119 --> 00:23:21,639
Speaker 1: just been flipping her hair the whole time. But with

386
00:23:22,800 --> 00:23:27,919
Speaker 1: that always emoji add going viral recently, Caroline, there's been

387
00:23:27,960 --> 00:23:30,359
Speaker 1: a lot of focus on the hair flip emoji and

388
00:23:30,400 --> 00:23:34,840
Speaker 1: all of the other lady emojis, and like the hashtag

389
00:23:34,920 --> 00:23:37,280
Speaker 1: like a girl at it went viral, and so you

390
00:23:37,320 --> 00:23:40,919
Speaker 1: have a lot of media outlets talking about and calling

391
00:23:40,960 --> 00:23:46,320
Speaker 1: for Unicode directly to broaden its gender representation. I mean,

392
00:23:46,359 --> 00:23:47,840
Speaker 1: you have a few years ago, I think it was

393
00:23:47,880 --> 00:23:52,480
Speaker 1: in late when Unicode finally got the memo and added

394
00:23:52,560 --> 00:23:56,040
Speaker 1: skin color options for some of the people, not all

395
00:23:56,080 --> 00:23:58,439
Speaker 1: of the people, but some of the people. And they

396
00:23:58,480 --> 00:24:02,440
Speaker 1: might similarly add gender options at some point down the road,

397
00:24:02,840 --> 00:24:04,600
Speaker 1: but it doesn't really look like that's going to happen,

398
00:24:04,640 --> 00:24:08,199
Speaker 1: at least not in the next round of emojis that

399
00:24:08,200 --> 00:24:11,720
Speaker 1: we're going to get yeah, because it seems like Unicode

400
00:24:11,880 --> 00:24:16,040
Speaker 1: is focusing more on offering male versions of the gender

401
00:24:16,080 --> 00:24:20,679
Speaker 1: stereotypical female emojis, so they would have the counterpoint to

402
00:24:20,720 --> 00:24:23,760
Speaker 1: the princess. So I'll have a prince, a groom, a

403
00:24:23,840 --> 00:24:28,560
Speaker 1: guy dancing, thank god, finally men can dance. Um. And

404
00:24:28,560 --> 00:24:31,399
Speaker 1: then they're going to have new sports emojis, things like

405
00:24:31,440 --> 00:24:34,760
Speaker 1: a wrestler, but watch out. I just heard that like

406
00:24:35,040 --> 00:24:38,640
Speaker 1: some wrestler caught herpies off of a mat recently, so

407
00:24:38,720 --> 00:24:42,720
Speaker 1: like watch out. Um, maybe the wrestler emoji with like

408
00:24:42,720 --> 00:24:47,760
Speaker 1: a caution emoji nexte um, and then maybe a water

409
00:24:47,880 --> 00:24:52,320
Speaker 1: polo because why would we not need that? And handball.

410
00:24:52,600 --> 00:24:55,479
Speaker 1: But these are all gonna be do yeah well, and

411
00:24:55,520 --> 00:24:58,560
Speaker 1: I like them. But looking at the list of the

412
00:24:58,800 --> 00:25:02,239
Speaker 1: possible emojis that they're gonna a vote on, one of

413
00:25:02,280 --> 00:25:05,160
Speaker 1: the few women is a pregnant lady, which I mean,

414
00:25:05,160 --> 00:25:06,880
Speaker 1: I see how that's useful, but I was like, you're

415
00:25:06,920 --> 00:25:10,080
Speaker 1: not helping matters any But the one request I have

416
00:25:10,160 --> 00:25:13,919
Speaker 1: to Unicode is to please not put the terrifying clown

417
00:25:13,960 --> 00:25:18,320
Speaker 1: face emoji that some sick person suggests. Does it like

418
00:25:18,400 --> 00:25:21,240
Speaker 1: the its face or is it just a clown. Listen,

419
00:25:21,240 --> 00:25:24,160
Speaker 1: I'm not a fan of clown, but also an emoji

420
00:25:24,280 --> 00:25:27,200
Speaker 1: version of a clown is it's Yeah, it's something out

421
00:25:27,200 --> 00:25:30,200
Speaker 1: of nightmares. I probably probably don't need it. I could

422
00:25:30,200 --> 00:25:33,200
Speaker 1: probably take a lady firefighter over a clown. I think.

423
00:25:33,240 --> 00:25:35,360
Speaker 1: I think that's what I would choose. There, you go

424
00:25:35,960 --> 00:25:39,880
Speaker 1: right to Unicode. Um, No, they'll just listen to this episode.

425
00:25:40,040 --> 00:25:41,360
Speaker 1: So we're kind of just going to have to put

426
00:25:41,400 --> 00:25:45,400
Speaker 1: a pin in the whole gender stereotyping with emojis because

427
00:25:45,440 --> 00:25:47,200
Speaker 1: it's sort of out of our control. I mean, people

428
00:25:47,320 --> 00:25:51,600
Speaker 1: are directly requesting Unicode do it, and they absolutely listened

429
00:25:51,640 --> 00:25:55,200
Speaker 1: when people said, hey, how about some ethnicity options here.

430
00:25:55,320 --> 00:25:59,280
Speaker 1: I always go with the yellow though, just because you're

431
00:25:59,280 --> 00:26:03,680
Speaker 1: constantly queen Zy that would be green, or maybe that

432
00:26:03,680 --> 00:26:07,240
Speaker 1: would mean I'm a witch. She's a witch. Yeah, I

433
00:26:07,240 --> 00:26:09,480
Speaker 1: stick with the yellow skin tone. Okay, is that your

434
00:26:09,560 --> 00:26:12,760
Speaker 1: Is that your neutral? Yeah? Yeah, that is my neutral.

435
00:26:12,800 --> 00:26:15,399
Speaker 1: I have to wear so much, so much foundation to

436
00:26:15,440 --> 00:26:18,719
Speaker 1: cover that up. Well, one thing I was curious about

437
00:26:19,000 --> 00:26:23,080
Speaker 1: with all this emoji conversation, especially the attention to how

438
00:26:23,160 --> 00:26:27,760
Speaker 1: girls use them and how stereotypical a lot of the

439
00:26:27,880 --> 00:26:32,639
Speaker 1: girl ones are I wondered whether there is a gendered

440
00:26:32,800 --> 00:26:37,960
Speaker 1: use to emojis and also their predecessors, old school emoticons.

441
00:26:38,400 --> 00:26:42,720
Speaker 1: Caught emoticons are already considered old school totally, and we're

442
00:26:42,720 --> 00:26:45,200
Speaker 1: gonna talk about that. We come right back from a

443
00:26:45,280 --> 00:26:51,800
Speaker 1: quick break, Caroline. You know what I'm a fan of

444
00:26:52,480 --> 00:26:56,840
Speaker 1: what the native template from squarespace dot com. It has

445
00:26:56,880 --> 00:27:00,080
Speaker 1: made my personal website look better than ever before. And

446
00:27:00,080 --> 00:27:04,040
Speaker 1: you know how easy it was? Really easy because you

447
00:27:04,080 --> 00:27:06,640
Speaker 1: don't have to know how to code to build your

448
00:27:06,720 --> 00:27:11,280
Speaker 1: website with squar space dot com. Yeah, they have amazing

449
00:27:11,440 --> 00:27:15,359
Speaker 1: and beautiful templates to choose from. Whether you're promoting yourself,

450
00:27:15,560 --> 00:27:19,800
Speaker 1: your yoga studio, your art practice, your podcast, whatever you do.

451
00:27:20,560 --> 00:27:24,200
Speaker 1: Squar space has a template and easy to use tools

452
00:27:24,400 --> 00:27:27,280
Speaker 1: for you and better yet, stuff I never told you listeners.

453
00:27:27,280 --> 00:27:29,200
Speaker 1: You can head on over to squar space and get

454
00:27:29,200 --> 00:27:33,040
Speaker 1: ten off your order and a free domain name by

455
00:27:33,119 --> 00:27:37,480
Speaker 1: using the code mom stuff. So what are you waiting for?

456
00:27:37,680 --> 00:27:41,240
Speaker 1: Build that website? Go to squarespace dot com use code

457
00:27:41,280 --> 00:27:44,119
Speaker 1: mom stuff for ten percent off your order and a

458
00:27:44,200 --> 00:27:53,879
Speaker 1: free domain. And now back to the show. So the

459
00:27:53,920 --> 00:27:57,560
Speaker 1: desire for broader emoji representation, it makes a lot of sense.

460
00:27:57,640 --> 00:28:00,119
Speaker 1: But the question we know want to tackle and can

461
00:28:00,160 --> 00:28:04,000
Speaker 1: to have the podcast is whether emojis are a gendered

462
00:28:04,080 --> 00:28:07,840
Speaker 1: form of communication, Because I gotta say, Caroline, I do

463
00:28:08,040 --> 00:28:12,840
Speaker 1: use emojis all the time in my texting with lady friends. Yeah,

464
00:28:12,920 --> 00:28:17,160
Speaker 1: for sure, I use them. Well, I use them with everybody. Honestly,

465
00:28:17,200 --> 00:28:19,560
Speaker 1: the person I use them with the most is my boyfriend.

466
00:28:20,240 --> 00:28:24,879
Speaker 1: Like we we have communicated strictly in emojis before. Do

467
00:28:24,920 --> 00:28:28,040
Speaker 1: you all have and if this is t M I,

468
00:28:28,119 --> 00:28:29,920
Speaker 1: you don't have to answer, but do you you all

469
00:28:29,960 --> 00:28:33,280
Speaker 1: have a go to emoji? Honestly it's it's a lot

470
00:28:33,320 --> 00:28:36,080
Speaker 1: of smiley faces and hearts, like going back to the

471
00:28:36,080 --> 00:28:40,160
Speaker 1: ones I use most often. Um, But it is to

472
00:28:40,480 --> 00:28:45,200
Speaker 1: indicate like this is sarcasm, or this is I'm saying

473
00:28:45,240 --> 00:28:47,840
Speaker 1: this in an excited way, or I'm really happy about this,

474
00:28:47,920 --> 00:28:51,120
Speaker 1: so that we don't fall into the trap of like, wait,

475
00:28:51,160 --> 00:28:53,720
Speaker 1: there was a period at the end of that. Is

476
00:28:53,720 --> 00:28:55,320
Speaker 1: he mad at me? Is she mad at me? What

477
00:28:55,400 --> 00:28:59,040
Speaker 1: could that mean? Well? And the thing is linguists are

478
00:28:59,080 --> 00:29:02,520
Speaker 1: paying attention to this. I mean, people might be snabs

479
00:29:02,560 --> 00:29:06,960
Speaker 1: about emoji use, but linguists are taking them very seriously.

480
00:29:07,240 --> 00:29:12,280
Speaker 1: And Stanford trained linguists. Tyler Schnabelen is one of those people,

481
00:29:12,360 --> 00:29:15,720
Speaker 1: and he talked to the New Republic about that, and

482
00:29:16,280 --> 00:29:19,040
Speaker 1: he says that we would assume that women use emojis

483
00:29:19,080 --> 00:29:23,880
Speaker 1: more because we're supposedly more emotionally driven communicators. We want

484
00:29:23,920 --> 00:29:26,640
Speaker 1: to really get our point across and as contextual of

485
00:29:26,680 --> 00:29:29,240
Speaker 1: a way as possible. And the thing is that is

486
00:29:29,360 --> 00:29:33,240
Speaker 1: somewhat reflected in our emoticon use. We're still in the

487
00:29:33,280 --> 00:29:39,080
Speaker 1: early days, unfortunately, of emoji linguistic research, but it does

488
00:29:39,120 --> 00:29:41,560
Speaker 1: seem like with our emoticon use, women are a little

489
00:29:41,600 --> 00:29:45,160
Speaker 1: bit likelier to send those winky faces. Yeah, well winky faces,

490
00:29:45,200 --> 00:29:48,920
Speaker 1: but also exclamation points um, which could be a whole

491
00:29:48,960 --> 00:29:51,840
Speaker 1: other episode. But yeah, my boyfriend I also obsessively use

492
00:29:51,920 --> 00:29:54,760
Speaker 1: exclamation points. I don't think there's anything that we say

493
00:29:54,760 --> 00:29:58,320
Speaker 1: to each other that only has a single punctuation mark. Like,

494
00:29:58,400 --> 00:30:00,280
Speaker 1: if it's going to have an exclamation point, it's going

495
00:30:00,320 --> 00:30:02,280
Speaker 1: to have five. If it's gonna have a question mark,

496
00:30:02,280 --> 00:30:04,600
Speaker 1: it's going to have at least two. What about semi

497
00:30:04,640 --> 00:30:08,120
Speaker 1: Colon's Oh lord, well, I tend to stay away from

498
00:30:08,160 --> 00:30:12,880
Speaker 1: writing essays. I'm not writing any Atlantic think pieces to

499
00:30:12,920 --> 00:30:15,520
Speaker 1: my boyfriend so I do stay away from the semicolons.

500
00:30:16,000 --> 00:30:19,320
Speaker 1: But the thing is, when it comes to emoticons, while

501
00:30:20,200 --> 00:30:23,440
Speaker 1: research has shown that women are likelier to use them,

502
00:30:23,480 --> 00:30:26,440
Speaker 1: it's not like we're throwing them out left and right. Um.

503
00:30:26,480 --> 00:30:29,440
Speaker 1: And And the main study that people point to it

504
00:30:29,520 --> 00:30:32,440
Speaker 1: was a tiny, tiny study from two thousand and ten

505
00:30:32,680 --> 00:30:36,000
Speaker 1: that took place at Rice University, and the participant pool

506
00:30:36,040 --> 00:30:40,200
Speaker 1: was only twenty one college students. UM. But they analyze

507
00:30:41,120 --> 00:30:44,240
Speaker 1: thousand texts that this group of college students sent, and

508
00:30:44,280 --> 00:30:48,440
Speaker 1: just four percent of them contained emoticons, and women were

509
00:30:48,480 --> 00:30:51,560
Speaker 1: twice as likely to have sent one of those texts.

510
00:30:51,960 --> 00:30:55,440
Speaker 1: But there is some interesting nuance in this, because when

511
00:30:55,680 --> 00:30:58,800
Speaker 1: guys did use emoticons, they tended to use a wider

512
00:30:58,920 --> 00:31:02,600
Speaker 1: range of them to exp us a wider range of emotions,

513
00:31:02,640 --> 00:31:08,960
Speaker 1: whereas with emojis and emoticons alike, women tend to keep

514
00:31:09,000 --> 00:31:11,800
Speaker 1: it positive. That's good, I mean, I guess you gotta

515
00:31:11,960 --> 00:31:16,760
Speaker 1: stay optimistic. Question mark question mark, question mark question mark. Um.

516
00:31:16,800 --> 00:31:20,680
Speaker 1: But it also seems like generally we've internalized this whole

517
00:31:20,680 --> 00:31:25,440
Speaker 1: idea of the emoticon being a female expression idea UM

518
00:31:25,520 --> 00:31:30,680
Speaker 1: and build an unconscious bias against guys using emoticons. I mean,

519
00:31:30,720 --> 00:31:34,120
Speaker 1: my my boyfriend I know doesn't really use them with

520
00:31:34,560 --> 00:31:37,280
Speaker 1: other dudes he's texting with. Yeah, I meant to ask

521
00:31:37,440 --> 00:31:40,440
Speaker 1: my fiance whether he and his guy friends engage in

522
00:31:40,560 --> 00:31:43,360
Speaker 1: much emoji back and forth. But from what I can tell,

523
00:31:43,760 --> 00:31:46,840
Speaker 1: they tend to just send each other like funny photos

524
00:31:47,320 --> 00:31:49,680
Speaker 1: a lot more often, which I feel like this like

525
00:31:50,040 --> 00:31:52,200
Speaker 1: even cuter, because that's a lot more work to have

526
00:31:52,240 --> 00:31:56,200
Speaker 1: to find find funny photos to send each other, more work.

527
00:31:56,520 --> 00:32:01,720
Speaker 1: But there was this. Zeusk Surveys is a dating site

528
00:32:01,760 --> 00:32:03,800
Speaker 1: for those of you who aren't familiar. The found that

529
00:32:03,880 --> 00:32:08,240
Speaker 1: guys with winky faces in their profiles attracted less attention,

530
00:32:08,880 --> 00:32:12,480
Speaker 1: whereas women with winky faces in their profiles attracted sixty

531
00:32:12,640 --> 00:32:18,080
Speaker 1: percent more interest. And this to me immediately, the first

532
00:32:18,120 --> 00:32:20,640
Speaker 1: thing I thought of was, like, it's because we're always

533
00:32:20,680 --> 00:32:24,040
Speaker 1: expected to smile. It's the whole hey honey, give me

534
00:32:24,080 --> 00:32:28,520
Speaker 1: a smile thing. Why aren't you smiling? Where guys are

535
00:32:28,560 --> 00:32:32,600
Speaker 1: expected to be more stoic? Maybe so, I mean, and

536
00:32:32,640 --> 00:32:35,840
Speaker 1: like emergies are considered kind of like a flirty or

537
00:32:35,840 --> 00:32:38,720
Speaker 1: emergies or emoticons are kind of considered a flirty thing

538
00:32:38,800 --> 00:32:42,680
Speaker 1: that more women are supposed to use, well guys and

539
00:32:42,760 --> 00:32:45,760
Speaker 1: straight guys. This now gets into more like heteronormative context

540
00:32:45,800 --> 00:32:49,600
Speaker 1: because linguists, come on, broaden your study pool please, um.

541
00:32:49,600 --> 00:32:54,160
Speaker 1: But research finds that guys use more emoticons if they're

542
00:32:54,200 --> 00:32:58,200
Speaker 1: talking in either like mixed gender groups or just talking

543
00:32:58,840 --> 00:33:02,040
Speaker 1: to a woman. And and did oh for younger people, Like,

544
00:33:02,120 --> 00:33:04,960
Speaker 1: younger guys are much likelier to use them in a

545
00:33:05,000 --> 00:33:11,480
Speaker 1: flirtatious way with girls insert winky face. Yeah no, boyfriend

546
00:33:11,520 --> 00:33:14,120
Speaker 1: dog way more likely to use them with me than

547
00:33:14,160 --> 00:33:17,800
Speaker 1: anybody else, which that's how it should be. Yeah, I mean,

548
00:33:17,800 --> 00:33:22,480
Speaker 1: and speaking of flirting and emojis, Caroline, I'll go ahead

549
00:33:22,520 --> 00:33:26,840
Speaker 1: and tell you the most embarrassing incident that I can remember.

550
00:33:26,920 --> 00:33:31,200
Speaker 1: I've probably done worse. Um, but a long time ago, now,

551
00:33:31,920 --> 00:33:34,040
Speaker 1: I was kind of sort of starting to see this

552
00:33:34,120 --> 00:33:38,080
Speaker 1: guy and I really liked him, and for some reason,

553
00:33:38,240 --> 00:33:40,600
Speaker 1: I thought it would be funny to send him a

554
00:33:40,640 --> 00:33:44,280
Speaker 1: text saying like, marry me in all caps and then

555
00:33:44,760 --> 00:33:48,600
Speaker 1: with the sunglasses smiley face, because I was like, the

556
00:33:48,640 --> 00:33:51,840
Speaker 1: sunglasses smiley face will definitely let him know that I'm joking.

557
00:33:52,600 --> 00:33:56,080
Speaker 1: Oh no, Yeah, he just didn't really respond to it,

558
00:33:57,360 --> 00:33:59,920
Speaker 1: did you? Guys? Keep dating. Well, he's not my fiance.

559
00:34:01,120 --> 00:34:04,800
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, I know, but like he didn't then ghost

560
00:34:04,920 --> 00:34:08,600
Speaker 1: did he? No? But he put me on ice. Yeah,

561
00:34:08,960 --> 00:34:11,759
Speaker 1: he definitely iced me. Um see that maybe if you

562
00:34:11,800 --> 00:34:14,799
Speaker 1: had tried Kristen c C. You probably didn't have enough

563
00:34:14,840 --> 00:34:19,319
Speaker 1: exclamation point, probably needed fifteen of the sunglasses smiley face.

564
00:34:19,400 --> 00:34:22,200
Speaker 1: Well and at that point to the like one eye

565
00:34:22,200 --> 00:34:25,759
Speaker 1: closed and the tongue out face did not exist yet,

566
00:34:25,800 --> 00:34:28,479
Speaker 1: you know the face that's like, I'm seriously joking, there's

567
00:34:28,520 --> 00:34:31,239
Speaker 1: no way you could possibly interpret this is something you

568
00:34:31,280 --> 00:34:34,759
Speaker 1: should consider to be a fact. Well, you should have

569
00:34:34,800 --> 00:34:38,480
Speaker 1: just then taken a picture of yourself making the the

570
00:34:38,560 --> 00:34:41,759
Speaker 1: winky tongue out face. I'm sure that would have won

571
00:34:41,840 --> 00:34:46,000
Speaker 1: him over, if only I could go back in time, Caroline. So,

572
00:34:46,080 --> 00:34:49,480
Speaker 1: but if we get back into this gendered speech, one

573
00:34:49,480 --> 00:34:52,560
Speaker 1: other thing that was really fascinating to me, And again

574
00:34:52,560 --> 00:34:54,879
Speaker 1: this goes back to a little more dated research because

575
00:34:54,880 --> 00:34:59,200
Speaker 1: it's focusing on emoticons, but linguists also suspect that women

576
00:34:59,320 --> 00:35:05,359
Speaker 1: might be likelier to use them in the same way

577
00:35:05,400 --> 00:35:09,080
Speaker 1: that we apologize in polite ways to kind of restore

578
00:35:09,120 --> 00:35:13,479
Speaker 1: the balance of the conversation. Linguists Debra Tannon calls it. Yeah, Oh,

579
00:35:13,520 --> 00:35:17,800
Speaker 1: absolutely absolutely. I mean beyond just making sure my boyfriend

580
00:35:17,800 --> 00:35:21,320
Speaker 1: knows that I'm like happy or even just neutral about

581
00:35:21,360 --> 00:35:24,200
Speaker 1: something and just not mad. Um, I will totally do

582
00:35:24,239 --> 00:35:26,560
Speaker 1: the same thing when I'm texting with friends, to be like, no,

583
00:35:26,880 --> 00:35:31,040
Speaker 1: you know, everything's fine. It is totally a qualifier and

584
00:35:32,040 --> 00:35:36,319
Speaker 1: a language softening thing. Yeah, especially if you if something

585
00:35:36,360 --> 00:35:40,560
Speaker 1: has been obviously been misinterpreted tone wise. When you respond

586
00:35:40,600 --> 00:35:42,880
Speaker 1: to that text, there's got to be a number of

587
00:35:42,880 --> 00:35:46,120
Speaker 1: like jokey emojis to to let the person know like no, no, no, no,

588
00:35:46,960 --> 00:35:50,080
Speaker 1: did not mean that when I closed tongue out face

589
00:35:51,000 --> 00:35:53,880
Speaker 1: seventeen of them. And the thing is that same body

590
00:35:53,880 --> 00:35:58,200
Speaker 1: of research did find that emoticons, just the basic no

591
00:35:58,360 --> 00:36:03,600
Speaker 1: frills emoticons or very helpful for people detecting the tone

592
00:36:03,640 --> 00:36:07,200
Speaker 1: and context of a text message or an instant message.

593
00:36:07,239 --> 00:36:10,960
Speaker 1: So imagine how more powerful our emojis are. I mean,

594
00:36:10,960 --> 00:36:13,880
Speaker 1: we have hundreds to choose from now, Yeah, and a

595
00:36:14,040 --> 00:36:17,680
Speaker 1: unicorn and a taco exactly, which are so fun And

596
00:36:17,719 --> 00:36:20,880
Speaker 1: I thought it was really fascinating how Another study found

597
00:36:21,200 --> 00:36:26,520
Speaker 1: that emoticons and emojis are especially popular among professional group

598
00:36:26,600 --> 00:36:30,279
Speaker 1: communications to build positive rapport. They lighten the mood in

599
00:36:30,320 --> 00:36:33,680
Speaker 1: that kind of way. Yeah. At my last job, uh,

600
00:36:33,800 --> 00:36:36,680
Speaker 1: when I was working with dude roommate and this other guy,

601
00:36:36,840 --> 00:36:42,880
Speaker 1: they frequently would employ the winky frownie face because, um,

602
00:36:42,920 --> 00:36:45,880
Speaker 1: you know when you end up on those like terribly

603
00:36:45,960 --> 00:36:49,319
Speaker 1: long corporate type of email threads with you know that

604
00:36:49,360 --> 00:36:52,839
Speaker 1: are very like office space style, and you're like, oh

605
00:36:52,880 --> 00:36:55,280
Speaker 1: my god, I'm so sick of these emails. You're leveraging

606
00:36:55,280 --> 00:36:58,439
Speaker 1: assets to tap into the zeitgeist kind of thing. So yeah,

607
00:36:58,560 --> 00:37:02,399
Speaker 1: breaking out of the silo and going deep. Um, dude

608
00:37:02,440 --> 00:37:05,200
Speaker 1: roommate and this other guy would would always send like

609
00:37:05,239 --> 00:37:08,480
Speaker 1: a smaller in group message with the winky frownie to

610
00:37:08,560 --> 00:37:12,720
Speaker 1: be like everything is terrible, Ah, we can't escape it. Ha.

611
00:37:13,400 --> 00:37:15,960
Speaker 1: And it built that rapport between you all, didn't it

612
00:37:16,040 --> 00:37:18,400
Speaker 1: you know or something. It definitely drove us to drink

613
00:37:18,400 --> 00:37:21,040
Speaker 1: at the bar across the street after work. Well and

614
00:37:21,920 --> 00:37:25,440
Speaker 1: speaking of of gender too, one thing that really jumped

615
00:37:25,480 --> 00:37:28,560
Speaker 1: out to me in a piece we read in Horizons magazine,

616
00:37:28,560 --> 00:37:32,080
Speaker 1: and that is Horizons h e Er was how Rights

617
00:37:32,120 --> 00:37:38,720
Speaker 1: Media education officer rose Ella Kabombo argued that putting down

618
00:37:38,880 --> 00:37:41,680
Speaker 1: emoticon and emoji used as some people have. I mean,

619
00:37:41,719 --> 00:37:46,480
Speaker 1: they're and especially with the excessive exclamation points. There's so

620
00:37:46,520 --> 00:37:51,399
Speaker 1: many columns usually written by guys I gotta say insisting

621
00:37:51,520 --> 00:37:56,600
Speaker 1: that we clean up our online speak. She says that

622
00:37:56,719 --> 00:38:02,240
Speaker 1: it's linguistic privilege in action, essentially, like an established group

623
00:38:02,280 --> 00:38:07,760
Speaker 1: trying to police how we lay folks are communicating. No, listen,

624
00:38:07,880 --> 00:38:10,640
Speaker 1: like I you know, literally the other half of my

625
00:38:10,719 --> 00:38:12,880
Speaker 1: job at how Stuff works is being an editor, and

626
00:38:12,960 --> 00:38:17,520
Speaker 1: so I am very strict in that role of making

627
00:38:17,520 --> 00:38:20,839
Speaker 1: sure like no, don't be so frivolous with your punctuation

628
00:38:20,960 --> 00:38:24,400
Speaker 1: use and with exclamation points, and you know, emogis and

629
00:38:24,440 --> 00:38:27,040
Speaker 1: emoticons obviously aren't a factor when you're editing an article.

630
00:38:27,600 --> 00:38:30,160
Speaker 1: But I am absolutely like a keeper of the of

631
00:38:30,200 --> 00:38:32,439
Speaker 1: the language when it comes to that role. But like,

632
00:38:32,920 --> 00:38:35,600
Speaker 1: chill out, like why are you getting upset with people

633
00:38:35,719 --> 00:38:39,680
Speaker 1: on whether it's text speaker, online speaker, whatever, Like why

634
00:38:39,719 --> 00:38:42,040
Speaker 1: are people getting so upset about the use of exclamation

635
00:38:42,080 --> 00:38:45,320
Speaker 1: points and smiley face because it's ruining the English language

636
00:38:45,840 --> 00:38:51,440
Speaker 1: this dern hired glyphs and cert thumbs down emoji. I

637
00:38:51,520 --> 00:38:54,719
Speaker 1: think maybe just the grumpy one, like the mean like

638
00:38:54,760 --> 00:38:57,960
Speaker 1: the devil face. Oh yeah, that's scary. It's kind of

639
00:38:57,960 --> 00:39:04,280
Speaker 1: like a beard. Yeah, gotta goatee, I think, But Caroline,

640
00:39:04,360 --> 00:39:07,439
Speaker 1: my favorite research finding out of all of this came

641
00:39:07,480 --> 00:39:12,719
Speaker 1: from a study called Gender Differences in Text Messaging, and

642
00:39:12,960 --> 00:39:16,759
Speaker 1: it referenced a study which found an age difference in

643
00:39:16,880 --> 00:39:21,960
Speaker 1: emoticon use, with female tweens and teens likelier to use

644
00:39:22,000 --> 00:39:24,799
Speaker 1: them as a way to soften their messages. As we

645
00:39:24,880 --> 00:39:27,359
Speaker 1: talked about, kind of that, you know, the polite i'm

646
00:39:27,360 --> 00:39:31,640
Speaker 1: sorry kind of thing, whereas older women our age did

647
00:39:31,680 --> 00:39:37,040
Speaker 1: not feel as emoticon compelled, but as a way to

648
00:39:37,120 --> 00:39:39,799
Speaker 1: soften their messages. So I thought that that was kind of,

649
00:39:40,080 --> 00:39:45,240
Speaker 1: uh A fascinating. Yeah, that's interesting. I'm definitely I guess

650
00:39:45,280 --> 00:39:48,840
Speaker 1: I fall in line with with the younger kids, but

651
00:39:48,920 --> 00:39:50,760
Speaker 1: they're still Yeah, I mean, I feel like there's something

652
00:39:51,920 --> 00:39:54,880
Speaker 1: a little bit different maybe with what they were looking

653
00:39:54,920 --> 00:39:59,000
Speaker 1: at with emoticons and professional emails, because I feel like

654
00:39:59,040 --> 00:40:02,880
Speaker 1: for women of our narration, we are emoji happy and

655
00:40:02,920 --> 00:40:06,000
Speaker 1: also we love sending each other gifts and fun things

656
00:40:06,040 --> 00:40:11,120
Speaker 1: like that. That I suspect, in my armchair opinion is

657
00:40:11,120 --> 00:40:17,920
Speaker 1: a way too like temper the just constant seven work

658
00:40:18,040 --> 00:40:22,680
Speaker 1: life imbalance that exists today. Yeah, I do. I do.

659
00:40:22,800 --> 00:40:25,000
Speaker 1: I am on like a constant group thread with with

660
00:40:25,080 --> 00:40:27,920
Speaker 1: some former co workers from that job, and we do

661
00:40:28,120 --> 00:40:31,640
Speaker 1: send little checkens via email a couple of times a week,

662
00:40:31,680 --> 00:40:34,280
Speaker 1: and it's just gifts. It's just a conversation and gifts

663
00:40:34,280 --> 00:40:36,319
Speaker 1: like how's your day going. Yeah, I mean, there's a

664
00:40:36,360 --> 00:40:40,000
Speaker 1: relatability factor too, and all about building that rapport that

665
00:40:40,080 --> 00:40:43,759
Speaker 1: I don't think that emoticons, just emoticons would have the

666
00:40:43,800 --> 00:40:47,080
Speaker 1: power to do in the same way that emojis and

667
00:40:47,120 --> 00:40:50,320
Speaker 1: of course gifts do. I'm a firm believer obviously in

668
00:40:50,360 --> 00:40:54,080
Speaker 1: the power of emojis and gifts. Oh god, yeah, oh god.

669
00:40:54,120 --> 00:40:55,839
Speaker 1: I had to go through and clear out so many

670
00:40:55,840 --> 00:40:58,480
Speaker 1: gifts from my phone, my like photo album on my

671
00:40:58,520 --> 00:41:01,520
Speaker 1: phone because I just I do tend to communicate with him.

672
00:41:01,520 --> 00:41:04,719
Speaker 1: It's a lot of head desk gifts, if you know

673
00:41:04,719 --> 00:41:07,920
Speaker 1: what I'm talking about. I really enjoyed though. How In

674
00:41:08,040 --> 00:41:12,640
Speaker 1: this gender Differences in text Messaging UH study, they found

675
00:41:12,640 --> 00:41:16,839
Speaker 1: that digital natives not surprisingly just responded that we use

676
00:41:16,920 --> 00:41:19,920
Speaker 1: emoticons and emojis just to save time. Hello, why are

677
00:41:19,960 --> 00:41:22,839
Speaker 1: we going to type all that stuff out? True? Because

678
00:41:22,840 --> 00:41:25,279
Speaker 1: you're you're certainly not going to have a phone conversation.

679
00:41:25,760 --> 00:41:28,360
Speaker 1: Oh gosh, Now, I mean, who does that? Not me?

680
00:41:28,480 --> 00:41:31,640
Speaker 1: I really don't have many phone conversations anymore. I don't either.

681
00:41:31,719 --> 00:41:35,520
Speaker 1: I was actually on the phone with my father last

682
00:41:35,640 --> 00:41:39,680
Speaker 1: night and my boyfriend beep through and he was calling me,

683
00:41:39,719 --> 00:41:41,879
Speaker 1: and I like, I was like, Dad, hang on, hold on,

684
00:41:41,920 --> 00:41:45,320
Speaker 1: some something's gonna be wrong. And I beeped over. He's like, hey,

685
00:41:45,360 --> 00:41:47,680
Speaker 1: how's it going. I'm like, oh my god, it's what's wrong?

686
00:41:47,680 --> 00:41:49,239
Speaker 1: What would you need to stop at the grocery store?

687
00:41:49,320 --> 00:41:51,640
Speaker 1: Something on fire? What's happening? And he's like, yes, just

688
00:41:51,680 --> 00:41:53,800
Speaker 1: calling to see what time you're going to be here, Like,

689
00:41:53,880 --> 00:41:55,960
Speaker 1: oh my god, someone called me. I wish that he

690
00:41:56,000 --> 00:41:57,560
Speaker 1: was calling to let you know that something at the

691
00:41:57,560 --> 00:42:00,239
Speaker 1: grocery store is on fire. Yeah. I probably am the

692
00:42:00,280 --> 00:42:03,640
Speaker 1: person to check on that. You're right. So, I think

693
00:42:03,719 --> 00:42:08,920
Speaker 1: what is so appealing about emoji is the fact that

694
00:42:09,680 --> 00:42:15,040
Speaker 1: there is this almost infinite range of potential meanings out there,

695
00:42:15,080 --> 00:42:17,480
Speaker 1: and that you can develop with your friends or your

696
00:42:17,520 --> 00:42:22,200
Speaker 1: significant other, even your parents kind of a secret language. Yeah.

697
00:42:22,239 --> 00:42:25,080
Speaker 1: This was something that New York Times tech writer and

698
00:42:25,160 --> 00:42:29,959
Speaker 1: all around rad lady Jenna Wortham has written about many times. Um,

699
00:42:30,000 --> 00:42:34,000
Speaker 1: but we read an essay of hers in Woman's Scene

700
00:42:34,280 --> 00:42:39,840
Speaker 1: where she describes her particular love of the Temporea shrimp emoji,

701
00:42:41,040 --> 00:42:43,520
Speaker 1: which I don't think i'd ever use that emoji before.

702
00:42:43,520 --> 00:42:45,520
Speaker 1: I never even really thought about it. But she loves

703
00:42:45,520 --> 00:42:49,160
Speaker 1: it because she has a few different and very specific

704
00:42:49,440 --> 00:42:52,480
Speaker 1: uses for it, Like she says, for some reason, it

705
00:42:52,520 --> 00:42:56,040
Speaker 1: reminds her of Mariah Carey, so she will use it

706
00:42:56,040 --> 00:42:59,320
Speaker 1: in those contexts. And also if she feels like someone's

707
00:42:59,360 --> 00:43:03,840
Speaker 1: being kind of rispy, she'll she'll send the Tempora shrimp

708
00:43:03,880 --> 00:43:05,719
Speaker 1: as well. I think the only time I've used the

709
00:43:05,760 --> 00:43:08,280
Speaker 1: temper A shrimp is when I'm texting someone how hungry

710
00:43:08,280 --> 00:43:09,759
Speaker 1: I am. And then I go through and I find

711
00:43:09,760 --> 00:43:12,760
Speaker 1: like every food item and do them each seventeen times,

712
00:43:12,840 --> 00:43:15,600
Speaker 1: and so you get like an essay length thing of

713
00:43:15,760 --> 00:43:18,200
Speaker 1: food related emojis from me. And yet you told me

714
00:43:18,239 --> 00:43:22,960
Speaker 1: earlier with the semicolon's you don't send essay text. How

715
00:43:23,000 --> 00:43:25,439
Speaker 1: the tune has changed again? I guess I was being

716
00:43:25,440 --> 00:43:28,240
Speaker 1: too literal, or maybe it's just again the power of emoji.

717
00:43:28,280 --> 00:43:31,040
Speaker 1: I mean, how can you stop at just one Tempora shramp? Yeah,

718
00:43:31,080 --> 00:43:34,439
Speaker 1: look at how hungry I am. Here are seven timpoor shrimps. Well,

719
00:43:34,440 --> 00:43:38,080
Speaker 1: and you know what, once that avocado emoji comes, Oh

720
00:43:38,120 --> 00:43:40,719
Speaker 1: my god, I'm so excited came over. Well, you've got

721
00:43:40,719 --> 00:43:44,040
Speaker 1: to get the you need to update before then, Caroline.

722
00:43:44,360 --> 00:43:46,640
Speaker 1: I mean, I I have an old phone, though I

723
00:43:46,680 --> 00:43:49,000
Speaker 1: don't know, maybe someone wants to write in and tell

724
00:43:49,040 --> 00:43:51,120
Speaker 1: me what to do. I'm just imagine you carry around

725
00:43:51,120 --> 00:43:54,839
Speaker 1: like a rotary telephone. Now I do full circle, I do.

726
00:43:54,920 --> 00:43:57,360
Speaker 1: I just have the Zack Morris cell phone, the brick

727
00:43:57,600 --> 00:43:59,879
Speaker 1: that I hold up to my head. But I want

728
00:43:59,880 --> 00:44:02,240
Speaker 1: to though, Caroline, I want to get your your thoughts

729
00:44:02,239 --> 00:44:07,520
Speaker 1: on this. Even when our emoji keyboards do include more

730
00:44:07,560 --> 00:44:11,799
Speaker 1: active empowered girl emojis, I mean, what will be our

731
00:44:11,960 --> 00:44:15,040
Speaker 1: use for them? I mean, do you think that it

732
00:44:15,080 --> 00:44:18,000
Speaker 1: will change in any way how girls see themselves, or

733
00:44:18,040 --> 00:44:20,719
Speaker 1: how women communicate to each other, or how we represent

734
00:44:20,800 --> 00:44:25,439
Speaker 1: ourselves in text speak at all, because I'll probably still

735
00:44:25,520 --> 00:44:29,120
Speaker 1: use my hair flip emoji all the time. You're helpful

736
00:44:29,120 --> 00:44:32,400
Speaker 1: woman at the service desk emogi. Yes, yes, I don't know.

737
00:44:32,520 --> 00:44:36,720
Speaker 1: I mean I think that that's total correlation causation question

738
00:44:36,800 --> 00:44:41,200
Speaker 1: because I think that, um, it's a lot more in

739
00:44:41,200 --> 00:44:46,160
Speaker 1: in how girls see themselves, and so you know, if

740
00:44:46,200 --> 00:44:49,160
Speaker 1: they do want to represent themselves to their friends in

741
00:44:49,760 --> 00:44:53,360
Speaker 1: emoji text speak as like a powerful lady. You know,

742
00:44:54,400 --> 00:44:58,040
Speaker 1: maybe they will then at some point have that firefighter

743
00:44:58,080 --> 00:45:02,560
Speaker 1: woman to represent themselves. Um, whereas right now they don't

744
00:45:02,560 --> 00:45:05,040
Speaker 1: have as many options. Well, I mean, even just for

745
00:45:05,480 --> 00:45:09,600
Speaker 1: the sports and active emojis, I could see you know,

746
00:45:09,640 --> 00:45:11,760
Speaker 1: girls in middle school and high school who are playing

747
00:45:11,800 --> 00:45:16,400
Speaker 1: sports who wouldn't mind using an emogi that reflects like

748
00:45:16,480 --> 00:45:19,720
Speaker 1: their interests and their athletics too. Yeah, it is weird

749
00:45:19,760 --> 00:45:22,560
Speaker 1: to sort of be left out of that. Well, and

750
00:45:22,600 --> 00:45:29,480
Speaker 1: it reinforces the guy as the default, as the standard. Yeah. Well,

751
00:45:29,560 --> 00:45:32,680
Speaker 1: and that goes back to so many sminthy conversations we've had.

752
00:45:33,280 --> 00:45:36,000
Speaker 1: We've talked about the importance of having a diverse set

753
00:45:36,000 --> 00:45:38,719
Speaker 1: of people in whatever type of company it is, in

754
00:45:38,760 --> 00:45:43,160
Speaker 1: whatever industry it is, um helping brainstorm and make decisions,

755
00:45:43,239 --> 00:45:47,840
Speaker 1: because if you just have dudes, then they're going to

756
00:45:47,920 --> 00:45:50,040
Speaker 1: be the most represented. Yeah, I mean, and that's why

757
00:45:50,080 --> 00:45:52,880
Speaker 1: I mentioned earlier that Unicode and I went and counted

758
00:45:53,000 --> 00:45:57,200
Speaker 1: on their website Unicode is mostly guys. So um, Now,

759
00:45:57,239 --> 00:46:00,279
Speaker 1: someone did have a theory that they might not have

760
00:46:00,360 --> 00:46:05,879
Speaker 1: included more women. Occupation emojis because they didn't want to

761
00:46:06,640 --> 00:46:11,080
Speaker 1: reflect gender stereotypes in that having like teachers and nurses.

762
00:46:11,120 --> 00:46:15,320
Speaker 1: So it's like they almost overcorrected. Possibly. Well okay, so

763
00:46:15,520 --> 00:46:17,680
Speaker 1: how about and then of course you would get into

764
00:46:17,760 --> 00:46:20,720
Speaker 1: questions of again who's the default male or female? Um?

765
00:46:20,719 --> 00:46:22,440
Speaker 1: But you know how you can click on something and

766
00:46:22,520 --> 00:46:25,160
Speaker 1: choose the skin tone for some of them, for some

767
00:46:25,239 --> 00:46:26,719
Speaker 1: of them, maybe you should be able to click on

768
00:46:26,760 --> 00:46:28,880
Speaker 1: them and choose if you want a male dancwer a

769
00:46:28,880 --> 00:46:31,560
Speaker 1: female dancer. Right, And that's I think what it will

770
00:46:31,640 --> 00:46:35,640
Speaker 1: ultimately be. And I mean and worth noting speaking of diversity,

771
00:46:35,960 --> 00:46:39,000
Speaker 1: the issue before that is that we had white as

772
00:46:39,000 --> 00:46:44,000
Speaker 1: the standard. Yea more for me, just yellow, just like

773
00:46:44,040 --> 00:46:47,120
Speaker 1: the Simpsons. I mean again, could that just go back

774
00:46:47,160 --> 00:46:51,000
Speaker 1: to representation in terms of who's creating this stuff? Possibly?

775
00:46:51,040 --> 00:46:55,080
Speaker 1: I mean it might again be just an oversight, you know,

776
00:46:55,280 --> 00:46:59,560
Speaker 1: of people not even really thinking about the need for it. Yeah, well,

777
00:46:59,600 --> 00:47:02,239
Speaker 1: I mean really they thought of tacos. So and it's

778
00:47:02,280 --> 00:47:06,680
Speaker 1: because we asked for tacos, Caroline asking you shall receive

779
00:47:06,680 --> 00:47:08,279
Speaker 1: you just like you gotta ask for that raise, you

780
00:47:08,320 --> 00:47:12,839
Speaker 1: gotta ask for your taco emoji. That's right. The important things, Yes,

781
00:47:12,920 --> 00:47:15,680
Speaker 1: and in this podcast has all been a metaphor on

782
00:47:15,760 --> 00:47:20,279
Speaker 1: negotiation at work. Surprise damn. But before we wrap up,

783
00:47:20,320 --> 00:47:23,160
Speaker 1: I do want to give a shout out to stuff

784
00:47:23,200 --> 00:47:26,520
Speaker 1: Mo've never told you, Bessie of the show over at

785
00:47:26,600 --> 00:47:30,440
Speaker 1: Maker's Amana McCall, who came up with feminist emojis of

786
00:47:30,760 --> 00:47:36,440
Speaker 1: Ruth Bader Ginsburg, Gloria's sign um Shonda rhyme Jamison. Yes, yes,

787
00:47:36,520 --> 00:47:41,480
Speaker 1: oh my god, the Gloria. The Gloria emogi. That's the

788
00:47:41,480 --> 00:47:43,480
Speaker 1: one that I want in my library so that I

789
00:47:43,520 --> 00:47:48,960
Speaker 1: can use that every day. There you go every day. Well, now, listeners,

790
00:47:49,560 --> 00:47:52,919
Speaker 1: we want to know your thoughts on emojis, and if

791
00:47:52,920 --> 00:47:55,960
Speaker 1: you want to just like tweet us your messages in emojis,

792
00:47:56,000 --> 00:47:58,360
Speaker 1: you can do that at Mom's podcast or if you

793
00:47:58,360 --> 00:48:01,719
Speaker 1: want to send us an old school with old school emoticons,

794
00:48:02,000 --> 00:48:04,239
Speaker 1: Mom's subbit house stuffwork dot com is where you can

795
00:48:04,320 --> 00:48:06,680
Speaker 1: do that. And we've got a couple of messages to

796
00:48:06,719 --> 00:48:14,720
Speaker 1: share with you right now. Okay, we have a couple

797
00:48:14,719 --> 00:48:18,040
Speaker 1: of let us here in response to our interview with

798
00:48:18,160 --> 00:48:22,160
Speaker 1: boss stup founder Emily Aries. So this one's from Scharard Uh.

799
00:48:22,280 --> 00:48:24,359
Speaker 1: He says, I just listen to the Bosstep episode, which

800
00:48:24,400 --> 00:48:27,880
Speaker 1: I thoroughly enjoyed. Love your work. I'm so sorry you're busy, Kristen.

801
00:48:28,000 --> 00:48:30,000
Speaker 1: I'm glad you and Caroline take the time to laugh

802
00:48:30,040 --> 00:48:32,279
Speaker 1: and joke around on air. It's infectious and a great

803
00:48:32,280 --> 00:48:35,040
Speaker 1: way to start my day. He goes on to say,

804
00:48:35,320 --> 00:48:37,640
Speaker 1: one thing that really resonated with me was the concept

805
00:48:37,680 --> 00:48:40,480
Speaker 1: of using the dollar as a method of political assertion.

806
00:48:40,840 --> 00:48:42,840
Speaker 1: I moved from the South to New England because I

807
00:48:42,840 --> 00:48:44,879
Speaker 1: did not want to support a state government that did

808
00:48:44,920 --> 00:48:48,680
Speaker 1: not have my quote unquote homosexual agenda at heart. The

809
00:48:48,719 --> 00:48:52,360
Speaker 1: winters are cold, but the equality of soul warming. I

810
00:48:52,400 --> 00:48:54,680
Speaker 1: have since gone back to school for a doctorate degree,

811
00:48:54,680 --> 00:48:57,120
Speaker 1: where the issues both you and Emily Aries point out

812
00:48:57,120 --> 00:49:00,279
Speaker 1: a rampant There are no dividing lines between my class, says,

813
00:49:00,320 --> 00:49:03,040
Speaker 1: the classes I teach, and anything resembling a home life.

814
00:49:03,360 --> 00:49:06,600
Speaker 1: All nighters are day rigor, and the semester sprint melts

815
00:49:06,600 --> 00:49:09,040
Speaker 1: into a thesis that feels like it goes on forever.

816
00:49:09,760 --> 00:49:11,560
Speaker 1: It is just as bad for my boyfriend, who is

817
00:49:11,600 --> 00:49:13,640
Speaker 1: a graduate student in the sciences, where he is at

818
00:49:13,640 --> 00:49:16,839
Speaker 1: the whim of the head of his lab. Principal investigators

819
00:49:16,840 --> 00:49:19,439
Speaker 1: that seems are not often trained to be teachers, making

820
00:49:19,480 --> 00:49:21,400
Speaker 1: it difficult for him to find a good mentor in

821
00:49:21,400 --> 00:49:24,200
Speaker 1: the field. My burnout didn't really come to a head

822
00:49:24,280 --> 00:49:27,480
Speaker 1: until I realized that both breakfast and lunch consisted of

823
00:49:27,480 --> 00:49:30,160
Speaker 1: a cup of coffee, and by dinner, I was positively

824
00:49:30,239 --> 00:49:33,160
Speaker 1: miserable and making a lot of simple mistakes. It wasn't

825
00:49:33,239 --> 00:49:36,440
Speaker 1: until my boyfriend pointed out, hey, coffee is not food

826
00:49:36,840 --> 00:49:38,279
Speaker 1: that I started to look at the way I was

827
00:49:38,280 --> 00:49:41,799
Speaker 1: treating myself. Every day now is an active fight to

828
00:49:41,840 --> 00:49:44,320
Speaker 1: treat my body with the respect it deserves in spite

829
00:49:44,320 --> 00:49:47,399
Speaker 1: of a never shrinking to do list. One more thing,

830
00:49:47,560 --> 00:49:49,480
Speaker 1: I would be remiss if I did not point out

831
00:49:49,520 --> 00:49:53,000
Speaker 1: that busy ness and business were once the same word,

832
00:49:53,120 --> 00:49:56,360
Speaker 1: not a coincidence. Ever since I realized the connection between

833
00:49:56,360 --> 00:49:58,560
Speaker 1: the two, I've pictured people in the business college across

834
00:49:58,600 --> 00:50:02,760
Speaker 1: campus speed walking around was decks of paper doing busyness work,

835
00:50:02,800 --> 00:50:06,239
Speaker 1: which is probably unfair but in some cases not inaccurate. Again,

836
00:50:06,360 --> 00:50:08,839
Speaker 1: love what you do, keep blazing trails. We listen from

837
00:50:08,840 --> 00:50:12,120
Speaker 1: the library and from the lab respectively, and sometimes now

838
00:50:12,160 --> 00:50:16,440
Speaker 1: while making this new thing called breakfast together. I love it.

839
00:50:16,440 --> 00:50:19,359
Speaker 1: Congratulations on breakfast, and thank you. I've got to let

840
00:50:19,360 --> 00:50:21,719
Speaker 1: her hear from Lauren, and she writes, I just wanted

841
00:50:21,719 --> 00:50:24,400
Speaker 1: to thank you for the boss step episode. Yesterday, I

842
00:50:24,440 --> 00:50:27,400
Speaker 1: had two separate conversations about the need to create boundaries

843
00:50:27,440 --> 00:50:30,040
Speaker 1: between work self and personal self so that I can

844
00:50:30,040 --> 00:50:33,480
Speaker 1: perform better in both places. As a social work grad student,

845
00:50:33,560 --> 00:50:35,480
Speaker 1: we talk a lot in class about the importance of

846
00:50:35,480 --> 00:50:38,000
Speaker 1: self care and preventing burnout, but it's not something I've

847
00:50:38,000 --> 00:50:41,239
Speaker 1: seen my fellow students or myself adopt. I've always been

848
00:50:41,280 --> 00:50:43,200
Speaker 1: the one to gain a lot of my self worth

849
00:50:43,320 --> 00:50:46,319
Speaker 1: from my work, which leads me to overworking, pulling the

850
00:50:46,360 --> 00:50:49,960
Speaker 1: I'm so busy card, neglecting personal relationships, and not doing

851
00:50:49,960 --> 00:50:52,400
Speaker 1: things I want to do, always being on the verge

852
00:50:52,400 --> 00:50:55,800
Speaker 1: of burnout. Oh, Lauren, I can so relate. I'm about

853
00:50:55,800 --> 00:50:57,840
Speaker 1: to graduate and start a new full time job, and

854
00:50:57,880 --> 00:50:59,799
Speaker 1: I really want to be intentional about taking care of

855
00:50:59,840 --> 00:51:01,640
Speaker 1: my self and being assertive so that I can be

856
00:51:01,719 --> 00:51:05,719
Speaker 1: a better employee but also a better friend and girlfriend. Anyway,

857
00:51:05,840 --> 00:51:08,560
Speaker 1: third Times a charm in this episode reinforced my desire

858
00:51:08,600 --> 00:51:11,319
Speaker 1: to make changes to better advocate for myself and all

859
00:51:11,360 --> 00:51:14,120
Speaker 1: of my relationships. To start, I finally use my grown

860
00:51:14,160 --> 00:51:16,640
Speaker 1: up coloring book of friends sent me months ago in

861
00:51:16,719 --> 00:51:20,760
Speaker 1: color to picture while listening to the episode. So thank

862
00:51:20,800 --> 00:51:23,160
Speaker 1: you so much Lauren for that letter. And you've got

863
00:51:23,160 --> 00:51:27,000
Speaker 1: to tune into our podcast on coloring books as well,

864
00:51:27,360 --> 00:51:30,200
Speaker 1: and with that listeners, we also want to hear from you,

865
00:51:30,440 --> 00:51:32,920
Speaker 1: mom stuff at house. Stuff works dot Com is our

866
00:51:33,000 --> 00:51:35,520
Speaker 1: email address and for links all of our social media

867
00:51:35,560 --> 00:51:38,120
Speaker 1: as well as all of our blogs, videos and podcasts

868
00:51:38,160 --> 00:51:41,080
Speaker 1: with our sources so you can learn so much more

869
00:51:41,120 --> 00:51:44,439
Speaker 1: about emojis. Head on over to stuff Mom Never Told

870
00:51:44,440 --> 00:51:51,520
Speaker 1: You dot com for moral this, and thousands of other topics.

871
00:51:51,719 --> 00:52:00,880
Speaker 1: Is it how stuff works dot com