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Speaker 1: Welcome to Daily Variety, your daily dose of news and

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Speaker 1: analysis for entertainment industry insiders. It's Tuesday, January thirteenth, twenty

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Speaker 1: twenty six. I'm your host, Cynthia Littleton. I am co

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Speaker 1: editor and chief of Variety alongside Ramin Setuda. I'm in

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Speaker 1: LA He's in New York, and Variety has reporters around

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Speaker 1: the world covering the business of entertainment. In today's episode,

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Speaker 1: we'll hear from Variety's Todd Spangler on the latest wrinkle

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Speaker 1: in the Paramount Warner Brothers Discovery Netflix Saga. Paramount has

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Speaker 1: gone to court in Delaware as it keeps up the

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Speaker 1: fight to buy WBD and Joe Otterson takes the pulse

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Speaker 1: of WWE one year after the grappling franchise moved to Netflix.

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Speaker 1: But before we get to that, here are a few

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Speaker 1: headlines just in this morning that you need to know.

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Speaker 1: Congratulations Zoe Saldanya, you are the highest grossing actor of

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Speaker 1: all time. Avatar Fire and Ash tipped Tree over the top.

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Speaker 1: She's been in all three Avatar movies to date. Plus

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Speaker 1: she's been on the Marvel train with the Avengers, and

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Speaker 1: to top it off, she earned an Oscar last year.

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Speaker 1: For her work in Amelia Perez. It's Good to be Zoe,

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Speaker 1: its last call for Trevoroa at the Grammy Awards. The

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Speaker 1: comedian says he'll be back on February first for his

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Speaker 1: sixth and final outing as host of Music's Big Night

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Speaker 1: as it airs live on CBS. Two big European production

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Speaker 1: outfits are in talks to merge some of their assets.

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Speaker 1: Banaje and All Three Media are discussing the possibility of

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Speaker 1: combining in some areas to create a larger overall entity

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Speaker 1: to sell shows around the world. All of these stories

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Speaker 1: and so much more can be found on Variety dot

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Speaker 1: com right now, Toad Spangler, thanks for joining me. Hello, Hello,

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Speaker 1: I don't think we've had a week in probably about

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Speaker 1: eight weeks where we haven't gone without some big development

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Speaker 1: in the Warner Brothers Discovery Paramount Netflix three way tango

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Speaker 1: that is going on despite Warner Brothers Discovery of Netflix

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Speaker 1: reaching a deal in early December. So today here as

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Speaker 1: we speak, it's gone now to a Delaware court room

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Speaker 1: where Paramount's guidance has gone to court to seeking to

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Speaker 1: compel Warner Brothers to release more financial details and more

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Speaker 1: granular detail about its sale. Agreement to Netflix. They're saying,

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Speaker 1: as they have been, that the Warner Brothers Discovery Board

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Speaker 1: is breaching its fiduciary duty by not engaging with paramounts

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Speaker 1: guidance on their deal. Todd, what do you think is

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Speaker 1: going on here?

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Speaker 2: Well, first of all, it's a shareholder rights issue, and

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Speaker 2: so the Delaware Chancery Court is the venue that adjudicates

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Speaker 2: these sorts of shareholder disputes. I think there's two ways

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Speaker 2: to look at this. One is David Ellison is in.

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Speaker 2: He's not going to let this go. He wants to

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Speaker 2: see this through this part of the process to make

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Speaker 2: his case to Warner Brothers Discovery shareholders that he believes

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Speaker 2: that he really has the better offer that will result

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Speaker 2: in greater value to each individual shareholder. The other way

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Speaker 2: to look at it, right is that the David Ellison

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Speaker 2: just wants to save face and he's trying to exhaust

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Speaker 2: all of his options here before he goes away.

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Speaker 1: Reading this complaint, this sixty page complaint, so much of

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Speaker 1: it does hinge on how you define engagement. They're saying

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Speaker 1: over and over in this suit that Warner Brothers Discovery

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Speaker 1: board members simply have been too quick to dismiss Paramount's offers,

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Speaker 1: and the implication there is that they just prefer to

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Speaker 1: be in business with Netflix. And I've talked to some

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Speaker 1: legal types about what leeway does the board have if

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Speaker 1: they just simply are convinced that Netflix is a better

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Speaker 1: steward for these assets. And from what I understand, the

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Speaker 1: financials are most important in terms of those two words

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Speaker 1: fiduciary duty.

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Speaker 2: I'm not a lawyer, first of all, but Warner Brothers

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Speaker 2: Discovery has been responsive in their filings responding to the

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Speaker 2: Paramount revised offers. They were very detailed. They were trying

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Speaker 2: to show that they were thoughtful and meticulous about vetting

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Speaker 2: each and every aspect of the different offers, including from Paramount.

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Speaker 1: The other big component of this that has been a

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Speaker 1: consistent theme from Paramount is the valuation of the entire company.

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Speaker 1: Paramount is saying that Warner Brothers Discovery has put way

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Speaker 1: too high of a price tag of a value the

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Speaker 1: collection of linear cable channels that as of now are

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Speaker 1: scheduled to be spun off from the larger Warner Brothers

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Speaker 1: Discovery sometime next year. And the Netflix offer, which is

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Speaker 1: around eighty three billion dollars, does not include those channels.

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Speaker 1: The paramount offer, which is valuated the little over one

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Speaker 1: hundred billion dollars, does include those channels, and that channel

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Speaker 1: group is everything from CNN and TNT and Cartoon Network

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Speaker 1: to Food Network, HGTV, Discovery Channel, and that matters in

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Speaker 1: terms of taking the measure of the total value of

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Speaker 1: what's at stake. Here, tell me if that interpretation is correct.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, this is not a new argument from the paramount side.

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Speaker 2: They said, if you look at it all in, we

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Speaker 2: are higher than what shareholders will get from the Netflix deal.

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Speaker 2: If the physician of Warner Brothers Discovery is that, look Netflix,

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Speaker 2: that's the superior financial offer, then you have to impute

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Speaker 2: what is the value of the remnant Discovery Global piece

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Speaker 2: of it. So the pairman is saying, look all in,

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Speaker 2: we're at thirty bucks a share. Netflix is less than that,

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Speaker 2: and by the way, with the decline of a stock,

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Speaker 2: it's even less than they advertise before. And on top

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Speaker 2: of all of that amount, currently, says hey, based on

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Speaker 2: our comparison to the Verson Group, which is the NBCUniversal

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Speaker 2: Comcast spin off, which the market has driven at stock down.

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Speaker 2: Given these comparisons, Discovery Global is worth zero dollars per share,

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Speaker 2: So you're getting even a worse deal from Netflix because

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Speaker 2: basically you're getting no value from that piece of the business,

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Speaker 2: which Netflix, again is not acquirant.

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Speaker 1: And that matters for Warner Brothers Discovery shareholders in the

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Speaker 1: Netflix scenario because once that spinoff is completed, Warner Brothers

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Speaker 1: Discovery shareholders will have stock in the new company, and

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Speaker 1: Paramount is saying that stock is going to be worthless,

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Speaker 1: and so you're better off taking our bigger number and

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Speaker 1: will take the whole thing off your hands and everybody

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Speaker 1: will be better off.

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Speaker 2: So that's the heart of the shareholder lawsuit that they filed.

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Speaker 2: It says, look, how how are you valuing this stub

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Speaker 2: as they call it, in the context of the Netflix steal,

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Speaker 2: And so they want to compel them to show their homework,

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Speaker 2: if you will.

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Speaker 1: Right and Versant Media, which as you said, is the

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Speaker 1: spin off of USA Network, Sci Fi, CNBC, MS Now

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Speaker 1: and a handful of other channels that started trading shortly

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Speaker 1: after the first of the year on its own, and

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Speaker 1: it has not performed very well in the marketplace. Now

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Speaker 1: that you hear from the Comcast people that there are

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Speaker 1: some institutional reasons for that and it may level out.

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Speaker 1: But my thought reading the lawsuit and how many times

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Speaker 1: they refer to versant, is that there are more channels

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Speaker 1: in the bundle that will be spun off from Warner Brothers.

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Speaker 1: This isn't an apples to apples comparison, because the Warner

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Speaker 1: Brothers group include CNN and TNT and HGTV and Food

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Speaker 1: Network channels that have very different business profiles than some

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Speaker 1: of the NBC universal channels. Food and HGTV are those

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Speaker 1: type of destination channels that have bucked the linear down

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Speaker 1: trend a little better than some than more the general

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Speaker 1: entertainment like the sci fi and USA. So there's a

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Speaker 1: lot of different ways to interpret this. I suppose what

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Speaker 1: matters is shareholders and perhaps a delaware judge, how do

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Speaker 1: you think the differences in those two channel groups are

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Speaker 1: going to play into However this may be adjudicated in

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Speaker 1: the long run.

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Speaker 2: I think as a legal matter, the question of how

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Speaker 2: are you valuing this and what are you using to

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Speaker 2: make your decision that's separate from what is discovered level

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Speaker 2: worth relative diversion. I think those are actually separate questions.

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Speaker 2: The argument after that is that Warner Brother's discovery is

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Speaker 2: overvalue and discovery level relative to an industry peer. So

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Speaker 2: Warner Brothers Discovery has not actually said specifically how much

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Speaker 2: that they're going to assign with the spinoff before the

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Speaker 2: Netflix sale happens. Is it's hard to you have to

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Speaker 2: make some assumptions on what this is all about. But

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Speaker 2: basically what paramoun wants to do now is like, hey,

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Speaker 2: show us your work, show us what your assumptions are,

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Speaker 2: so that shareholders can make an informed decision here on

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Speaker 2: who really does have the better offer.

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Speaker 1: There's so much to watch here and there. I think

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Speaker 1: the other big date on the calendar that we know

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Speaker 1: of is January first, which is the deadline for Paramounts

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Speaker 1: guidances tender offer to Warner Brothers Discovery shareholders. They're going

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Speaker 1: through a different door to try to just buy up

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Speaker 1: as many shares as they can so that they can

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Speaker 1: also have sway over the company. And I think this

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Speaker 1: is one of the things that just makes this also

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Speaker 1: fraught with what if. And I know that is definitely

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Speaker 1: weighing on folks at the studio and HBO I picked

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Speaker 1: certainly picked up a little bit of that in my

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Speaker 1: travels over the weekend for Golden globes.

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Speaker 2: And Paramount also signaled that they're going to wait a

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Speaker 2: proxy fight to add their own nominees to the board

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Speaker 2: of directors of Warner Brother's Discovery at the annual shareholder meetings.

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Speaker 2: So this is not going to be over anytime soon.

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Speaker 1: Todd, correct me if I'm wrong. They can't wage that

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Speaker 1: proxy fight unless they get a significant number of shares.

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Speaker 1: They can't just say we're concerned citizens here and we're

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Speaker 1: nominating a slate of directors that we think would do

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Speaker 1: a whole lot of better job at Warner Brothers.

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Speaker 2: They would need a certain number of shares backing that

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Speaker 2: proposal to get it on the ballot for the general

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Speaker 2: annual shareholders election.

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Speaker 1: They've got to have some skin in the games. Well,

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Speaker 1: as we've said before, you haven't seen this messy of

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Speaker 1: an M and A fight.

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Speaker 2: It is shipping up to be a pretty long fight.

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Speaker 1: Yes, Todd, thank you for always rising early to follow

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Speaker 1: all the developments and helping the unpack it. Deeply appreciated.

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Speaker 2: Yep, never a dull moment.

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Speaker 1: And now we turn to Joe Otterson, Variety's TV news editor.

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Speaker 1: He walks us through the viewership stats that Netflix assembled

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Speaker 1: to mark one year since the WWE brought its traveling

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Speaker 1: wrestling circus to the streamers platform. It was a test

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Speaker 1: for both entities and it looks like they passed. Joe

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Speaker 1: Watterson just back from a very long trip. We're glad

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Speaker 1: to see you back in the satellite Weiss.

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Speaker 3: It is good to be back.

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Speaker 1: Right out of the gate, you filed a story that

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Speaker 1: caught my eye. One of the big media stories of

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Speaker 1: twenty twenty five was the WWE moving its very big

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Speaker 1: live franchise to Netflix, and that was a real test

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Speaker 1: of whether Netflix could sustain a live franchise. Would people

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Speaker 1: be trained to go to them for something live at

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Speaker 1: a certain time, And I think by all accounts, the

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Speaker 1: answer is yes. Netflix totaled up a lot of stats

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Speaker 1: and numbers for the first year. As a longtime WWE fan,

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Speaker 1: What do you think is significant about the stats?

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Speaker 4: According to Netflix, about one year since Monday Night Raw

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Speaker 4: launched a the weekly live show on Netflix, they drew

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Speaker 4: the accumulatively three hundred and forty million viewing hours across Netflix.

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Speaker 4: Netflix also has rights to WWE premium live events and

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Speaker 4: their other weekly show, SmackDown outside the United State, which

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Speaker 4: was another a one hundred and eighty five million, So

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Speaker 4: that's I would say very successful for Netflix, especially considered

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Speaker 4: this was their first attempt at a consistent weekly live show. Netflix,

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Speaker 4: it's no secret has ambitions in the live event you know,

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Speaker 4: programming space, and this I think is definitely a success

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Speaker 4: story for them.

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Speaker 3: In terms of the viewership.

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Speaker 4: It's hard to make an apples to Apple's comparison because

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Speaker 4: obviously linear networks like Fox or USA Network or WAWE

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Speaker 4: programming has aired measured their viewership differently than Netflix does.

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Speaker 4: But according to Netflix, Monday Night raws averaging about three

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Speaker 4: million views per week, which is pretty well in line

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Speaker 4: with what you were seeing when say like SmackDown was

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Speaker 4: airing on Fox a couple of years ago now, so

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Speaker 4: I think it's it's definitely a success for both Netflix

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Speaker 4: and WWE. They just announced that WWE Library Programming, which

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Speaker 4: they have a ridiculous content library going back forty fifty years,

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Speaker 4: will be available up to subscribers on Netflix as well

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Speaker 4: in the United States for the first time. I'll be

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Speaker 4: very curious to see what kind of viewership that drives

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Speaker 4: here in the coming weeks and months.

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Speaker 1: You and Bella Bijaria too at Netflix. You anticipated my

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Speaker 1: question which was it's hard to make an apples to apples.

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Speaker 1: This is really apples to oranges in terms of viewership.

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Speaker 1: But I do think having all of their having their content,

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Speaker 1: which had previously been spread among USA and Fox, and

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Speaker 1: there's still a little bit on CW, but most of

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Speaker 1: its heavy hitting programming now is on Netflix. Even for

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Speaker 1: a franchise that well established, has got to be compelling

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Speaker 1: from a pure marketing standpoint.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, because a really consistent criticism from fans since the

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Speaker 4: start of the streaming era, if you will, has been

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Speaker 4: how fractured WWE's programming has been amongst these different platforms.

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Speaker 4: Because you have to remember, you there was the WWE

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Speaker 4: network for a time, then that was integrated into Peacock,

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Speaker 4: and then obviously they've made other deals since then, and

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Speaker 4: stuff moves around, and you could get the library stuff

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Speaker 4: on Peacock or the live events, but that if you

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Speaker 4: wanted to watch raw or smacked at live every week,

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Speaker 4: it was a question of having different networks or different

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Speaker 4: streaming services. So just the fact that there is one

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Speaker 4: place for a big portion of their content now, including

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Speaker 4: the weekly live.

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Speaker 3: Shows, it's a really big deal for fans for sure.

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Speaker 1: Do you feel like WWE is as ubiquitous as ever.

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Speaker 1: Any time you move from a platform, even a ginormous

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Speaker 1: platform like Netflix, there's a sense of are you going

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Speaker 1: to potentially break something? What is your perspective as a fan?

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Speaker 4: Yeah, it's interesting because WWE is one of those things

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Speaker 4: where it's such a consistent presence in the pop culture

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Speaker 4: landscape and has been for so long. Like anything else,

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Speaker 4: it really ebbs and flows, but it's always there, Like definitely.

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Speaker 3: There is this.

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Speaker 4: Period a couple of years ago where you had this

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Speaker 4: incredible like crossover appeal of stars like Roman Reigns and

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Speaker 4: Cody Rhoads and Raya Ripley and all these people were

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Speaker 4: all still active wrestlers today, but just when they were

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Speaker 4: really entering their prime period and you were seeing them

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Speaker 4: pop up across different media and pop up in movies

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Speaker 4: and on different TV shows, and just their names were

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Speaker 4: being spoken outside of kind of those traditional wrestling circles.

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Speaker 3: That was really really cool to see. And that was

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Speaker 3: a new era for the company.

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Speaker 4: And now they entered this Netflix era and they're again

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Speaker 4: still figuring out things in the streaming age and this

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Speaker 4: new platform they're on. It's a very very well oiled machine.

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Speaker 4: That's the last of the great traveling circuses, And it's

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Speaker 4: just a question of identifying those up and coming stars

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Speaker 4: and in that new generation and just keeping things moving

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Speaker 4: that way and work getting them to work with the

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Speaker 4: more established talent, and constantly building up people and building

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Speaker 4: up these programs in these storylines.

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Speaker 1: So have you seen any embellishments or augmentation of the

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Speaker 1: content that has impressed you.

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Speaker 4: They're not as confined like by time restrictions as they

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Speaker 4: were obviously, because you know, with a cable network, a

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Speaker 4: linear network here you have like your block of time,

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Speaker 4: and you really can't move too far like outside of that,

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Speaker 4: Like if you're programming for three hours, you have to

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Speaker 4: give them three hours and if you can't really go over,

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Speaker 4: but you also can't really go under. And I think

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Speaker 4: what they've very smartly done is they've been able to

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Speaker 4: scale things back a little bit and say, tonight's going

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Speaker 4: to be a two and a half hour show or

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Speaker 4: two hour and fifteen minute show. But then sometimes if

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Speaker 4: you need to go a little longer because a match

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Speaker 4: is going really well and he obviously really into it,

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Speaker 4: or it's flowing in a certain way, you're not as

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Speaker 4: confined in that sense, So it's given them a greater

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Speaker 4: sense of freedom in that sense. In terms of the

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Speaker 4: technology and integrations. They'd already been experimenting with some things

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Speaker 4: in terms of like the way they use their cameras

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Speaker 4: and like integrated drone shots and things within the stadium

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Speaker 4: or the arenas, which has.

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Speaker 3: Been really cool.

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Speaker 4: Under the leadership of Paul Levec aka Triple h aka

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Speaker 4: the Game, they've really been trying out some new things

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Speaker 4: and kind of trying to break the mold from what

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Speaker 4: they've been doing for a long time. Some of it's worked,

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Speaker 4: some of it hasn't, but the stuff that has worked

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Speaker 4: has been really cool, and it's good to see them

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Speaker 4: integrating that more and changing the way the product is presented.

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Speaker 1: Are there any big events anything you're looking forward to

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Speaker 1: this year for WWE?

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Speaker 3: It all depends on the storyline.

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Speaker 4: Some of the storylines like are gonna play out much differently,

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Speaker 4: depends on how things happen during the year. But the

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Speaker 4: person I'm keeping an eye on right now is a

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Speaker 4: Gunther aka der Ring Gameral for those who don't know,

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Speaker 4: he's an Austrian wrestler, very very impressive guy. He's the

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Speaker 4: one who wrestled John Cena in his retirement match in December,

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Speaker 4: and they've just really positioned him as this monster heel

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Speaker 4: or bad guy in wrestling terms. Off of that fact

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Speaker 4: that he was the one who got to work with

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Speaker 4: Sena in his final match and retired John Cena made

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Speaker 4: him tap out was a huge deal for him and

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Speaker 4: I'm very, very curious what they're going to do with

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Speaker 4: him here out because he's currently positioned as pretty much

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Speaker 4: the top bad guy in the company.

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Speaker 1: Javo is the German word that comes to mind. Joe,

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Speaker 1: thank you so much for being our resident WWE expert.

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Speaker 1: I really appreciate it.

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Speaker 3: Thank you very much.

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Speaker 1: As we close out today's episode, here's a few things

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Speaker 1: we're watching for. It's hard to believe, but Q four

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Speaker 1: earning season is just about upon us. Netflix will kick

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Speaker 1: off the reporting a week from today on January twentieth,

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Speaker 1: with its numbers for the last quarter of last year.

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Speaker 1: Of course, we'll be listening for any news on its

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Speaker 1: Warner Brothers Discovery acquisition deal. Also hard to believe, but

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Speaker 1: the Sundance Film Festival is barely a week away. This

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Speaker 1: will be the last event in Park City, Utah before

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Speaker 1: the festival moves to Boulder, Colorado, in twenty twenty seven.

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Speaker 1: It will also surely be a time for tributes to

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Speaker 1: the Sundance Institute's late founder, Robert Redford before we go.

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Speaker 1: Congrats to Katie Anderson, the Sony Pictures alum, has joined

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Speaker 1: Black Bear Pictures as Executive vice President of Acquisitions. This

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Speaker 1: appointment is also coming just in time for Sundance. Thanks

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Speaker 1: for listening. This episode was written and reported by me

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Speaker 1: Cynthia Littleton, with contributions from Todd Spangler and Joe Otterson

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Speaker 1: styx Nick's Hickpicks. Please leave us a review at the

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Speaker 1: podcast platform of your choice, and please tune in tomorrow

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Speaker 1: for another episode of Daily Variety, and don't forget to

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Speaker 1: tell us what you think at podcasts at Variety dot com.

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Speaker 1: Thanks