Speaker 1: Best friends, Cordel Hubbard and Ruel Sailor, were small time
Speaker 1: dealers on the East side of Cleveland. On November sixteenth,
Speaker 1: two thousand and two, Cordell's sister Nicole was out partying
Speaker 1: with some friends. She fronted the group twenty bucks for drugs,
Speaker 1: but felt taken advantage of when she only got ten
Speaker 1: dollars back from the group of five. When she spoke up,
Speaker 1: a gun was pulled on her, so she called Cordel.
Speaker 1: While celebrating a birthday at a bar with a large
Speaker 1: group including will Sizemore and Ruelle, Cordell answered the call
Speaker 1: from Nicole and took Sizemore along to confront the two
Speaker 1: men who had done her wrong, Omar Clark and Clark
Speaker 1: Lamar Williams. They pulled up on these men on a
Speaker 1: darkened street, and Sizemore initially got out of the passenger
Speaker 1: side and confronted them about his sister, leading witnesses to
Speaker 1: believe that the passenger was Cordel. Cordell got out of
Speaker 1: the driver's side. Omar Clark pulled a gun and Cordell
Speaker 1: shot him in self defense, while the other man, Williams,
Speaker 1: got caught with a bullet in his buttocks as he
Speaker 1: ran away. Ruel was clearly not involved, but his tight
Speaker 1: friendship with Cordel and his days in the streets would
Speaker 1: come back to haunt him. A corrupt vice detective who
Speaker 1: had once vowed to get Ruel would use this opportunity,
Speaker 1: claiming an informant had told him that Ruel was the
Speaker 1: other man with Cordell while threatening and coercing Ruel's alibi
Speaker 1: witnesses into silence. Even with Cordell taking full responsibility and
Speaker 1: naming Will Sizemore as the other man before sentencing, Ruel
Speaker 1: still spent fifteen years behind bars. This is Wrongful Conviction
Speaker 1: with Jason Flamm. Welcome back to Wrongful Conviction with Jason Flamm.
Speaker 1: That's me. I'm your host, and today, if I was
Speaker 1: going to title this episode, I would call it Web
Speaker 1: of Lies, because this case was built on so many
Speaker 1: different layers of lies, so many different people had to
Speaker 1: tell in order to convict an innocent man named Ruel
Speaker 1: Sailor of murder and other charges. So we'll get right
Speaker 1: into it. First of all, I want to introduce the
Speaker 1: woman who was responsible for Ruel winning his freedom a
Speaker 1: couple of years ago. Jennifer Passion Bergeron, who is the
Speaker 1: deputy director of the Ohio Innocence Project. So, Jennifer, welcome
Speaker 1: to Ronful Conviction. Thank you.
Speaker 2: It's good to be here. I would be remiss if
Speaker 2: I didn't give a shout out to Kim Carral too,
Speaker 2: because she was in private attorney that worked with me
Speaker 2: on this case.
Speaker 1: Thank you for doing that. And without further Ado Ruel Sailor,
Speaker 1: welcome to Ronfuel Conviction.
Speaker 3: Thank you for having me.
Speaker 1: And let's start in the beginning. So did you grow
Speaker 1: up in Cleveland.
Speaker 3: Yes, on the east side, the Saint Clair area in
Speaker 3: the east side of Cleveland. My mother, for as I remember,
Speaker 3: she always was a nurse. Sometimes he worked two three
Speaker 3: shifts a day. My father he was there. Then he
Speaker 3: wasn't there. He was in the streets. But then I
Speaker 3: had started get older, I had to be there to
Speaker 3: help out with my siblings. I have a younger brother
Speaker 3: and sister. So once my dad wasn't there, it was
Speaker 3: just us. And then as a teenager, I took more
Speaker 3: into the streets than school because I felt like I
Speaker 3: had to help my mom with my siblings. So I
Speaker 3: begin like to sell drugs at a young age and
Speaker 3: I drop out of high school in like tenth grade.
Speaker 1: Tell us about Cordell Hubbard, because he really is a
Speaker 1: central figure and this really crazy crime.
Speaker 3: Well black history of Cordell Hubbard. Me and Cordell Hubbard
Speaker 3: met in third grade and for some reason we ended
Speaker 3: up in the same class every grade throughout our whole
Speaker 3: entire school year up until high school. So he was
Speaker 3: always best friends and Jennifer.
Speaker 1: This started from a drug deal gone bad, right, but
Speaker 1: a very minor drug deal at that And this goes
Speaker 1: back to the night of November sixteenth of two thousand
Speaker 1: and two.
Speaker 2: One of the people that we'll be talking about is
Speaker 2: Clark Lamar Williams, and we'll just refer to him as
Speaker 2: Williams just to try to make it simpler. My understanding
Speaker 2: is Nicole Hubbard was with Omar Clark and Williams and
Speaker 2: a couple of her friends that night and they were driving.
Speaker 2: Omar Clark and Williams should buy a wet cigarette, one
Speaker 2: cigarette with PCP and I guess it was twenty bucks
Speaker 2: and Nicole fronted the twenty bucks. So when they stopped,
Speaker 2: I think it was Omar Clark that went in to
Speaker 2: get the money to pay her back. But didn't come
Speaker 2: back with twenty bucks, came back with only ten bucks,
Speaker 2: apparently because everyone had taken turns smoking, so I guess
Speaker 2: he figured he only needed to pay half of it.
Speaker 2: I don't know, but in any case, this did not
Speaker 2: go over well with the Cole Hubbard, and my understanding
Speaker 2: is Omar pulled a gun on her and that's when
Speaker 2: she called her brother and things escalated from there.
Speaker 3: Me and Grardill Hubbard, he was happening to be out
Speaker 3: sun to brain one of our friends' birthdays. He's had
Speaker 3: a bar and Cordell had received a phone call from
Speaker 3: his sister and Nicole Hubbert. Him and William Sizemore left
Speaker 3: the board and he was at and went to go
Speaker 3: confront these guys about his sister to go see about
Speaker 3: her well being, because he thought she was still there,
Speaker 3: and when he got there, she was gone. To my
Speaker 3: understanding from when I was told like Oldmark Clark pulled
Speaker 3: a gun on Cordell Hubbard twice and Cordell Hubbard shot
Speaker 3: Openmark Clark in self defense.
Speaker 1: Omar Clark was shot eleven times and mister Williams was
Speaker 1: running away from the scene and was shot. He was
Speaker 1: lucky to be shot in the butt and therefore not
Speaker 1: badly hurt. And the two men drove off afterwards.
Speaker 3: And so the witnesses that was on the scene had
Speaker 3: confused the driver and the passenger. William Sizemore was the passenger.
Speaker 3: ForDeal Hubbert was the driver, and William Sizemore got out
Speaker 3: and confronted the individuals saying, what do I do to
Speaker 3: my sister? So the witnesses on that street automatically assumed
Speaker 3: that the brother was the passenger, and that's where the
Speaker 3: confusion came at. So they always had put Cordell on
Speaker 3: the passenger side, and they didn't know who the driver was.
Speaker 3: So when they arrested Cordell for this crime, they was
Speaker 3: charging him as an accomplice because the driver was the
Speaker 3: shooter and they didn't have a second person. And going
Speaker 3: back to my history in the streets, there was a
Speaker 3: vice cop from my neighborhood that particularly didn't get along
Speaker 3: with me per se, and he had planned drugs on
Speaker 3: me once before and I didn't go to prison, and
Speaker 3: he felt that I said with the prison. He told
Speaker 3: me that he would get me one day. And so
Speaker 3: when Cordell name came up in his crime, they automatically
Speaker 3: just assumed I was with Cordell because we've always been
Speaker 3: together for so many years, and everyone knew that we
Speaker 3: were best friends. So this cop told the homicide detectives
Speaker 3: that he had a complicitive informant, which was never named,
Speaker 3: never brought up during our trial, just his word. He
Speaker 3: had a complicatory informant told him that I was the
Speaker 3: driver and that I was the shooter, and I was
Speaker 3: arrested based upon that.
Speaker 1: And then we fast forward, of course, to March twenty six,
Speaker 1: two thousand three, and a grand jury indicted you, well,
Speaker 1: right on charges of murder, kidnapping, and assault. But I
Speaker 1: mean the alibi it's pretty strong in this case, right,
Speaker 1: I mean he was miles and miles away across town
Speaker 1: with lots of other people, right.
Speaker 2: Yes, we have several affidavits from different people later on
Speaker 2: who could have potentially testified at the trial, but they
Speaker 2: also said in their appidats that they were threatened by
Speaker 2: the police if they did show up to testify.
Speaker 1: Now, the case went to trial in May of two
Speaker 1: thousand and three, and all three of you were tried together.
Speaker 1: First of all, it seems like a very quick turnaround,
Speaker 1: and I can't leave out the fact that when I
Speaker 1: see the words Cyahoga County, I immediately get the chills,
Speaker 1: because we keep hearing about cases from Cuyahoga County wrongful
Speaker 1: conviction one after the other.
Speaker 3: I was indicted more twenty six. I was arrested April second,
Speaker 3: Whdell Hubbard was already indicted and was out on bond
Speaker 3: and his court date prior to me being arrested. The
Speaker 3: state didn't have any witnesses to come to court, so
Speaker 3: the judge, Nancy MacDonald told were they owe, his lawyers
Speaker 3: and the prosecutors that she was going to reschedule next
Speaker 3: court date for May nineteenth. To my understanding that they
Speaker 3: didn't come May nineteenth with witnesses, that the case would
Speaker 3: be thrown out. In the midst of that, I was
Speaker 3: arrested and they added Cordell and the code to my
Speaker 3: new indictment, but kept they saying court date May nineteenth
Speaker 3: was their original court date to start a trial. Or
Speaker 3: lawyers who I was separate trial, they denied as a
Speaker 3: separate trial, and I had to nearly prepare for a
Speaker 3: murder trial from April second to May nineteen.
Speaker 1: Jennifer, this all sounds pretty irregular, even amongst the crazy
Speaker 1: shit we hear week to week on this podcast.
Speaker 2: Well, I can't imagine as an attorney trying to get
Speaker 2: ready for a murder case in basically a month. So
Speaker 2: that set the whole stage for things to just go
Speaker 2: downhill because there just wasn't time to do the type
Speaker 2: of investigation that would have been necessary to mount the
Speaker 2: proper defense.
Speaker 3: By the time I had put my witness list together,
Speaker 3: the detective on my case, before I can even make
Speaker 3: calls to get to these witnesses, he had already got
Speaker 3: to them. The board that I was at, he got
Speaker 3: to the owner and he told her that if she
Speaker 3: came to court of my defense, he would he would
Speaker 3: get her board raided, like raided for drugs and shut down,
Speaker 3: like he was like playing drugs at her bar. And
Speaker 3: he's known for this throughout our neighborhood, so she didn't
Speaker 3: want to jeopardize her business, which I understand. And then
Speaker 3: my other witnesses neighbors in the street life as well,
Speaker 3: and he went to them and threatened them with planning
Speaker 3: drugs on them and getting those guys cases, so they
Speaker 3: didn't come to court. So when it came time for trial,
Speaker 3: I didn't have any out of out witnesses that was
Speaker 3: on my list to come to court, because this detective
Speaker 3: had when it spoke to all of them and threatened
Speaker 3: them not to come to court.
Speaker 1: So you didn't have a shot in l when it
Speaker 1: really comes down to it. And I don't think the
Speaker 1: best lawyer in the world could have helped you out
Speaker 1: of that situation with what they were willing to do,
Speaker 1: the links they were willing to go to. So the trial,
Speaker 1: did you think, after having seen all the worst of
Speaker 1: what our quote unquote justice system has to offer, did
Speaker 1: you think that you still had a chance to be acquitted.
Speaker 3: I was skeptical because my jury wasn't of my peers.
Speaker 3: Majority of my jury were older, white people from suburban areas.
Speaker 3: And so the biggest thing in this case was identification.
Speaker 3: There was no physical evidence, no scientific evidence, no bullets cases,
Speaker 3: none of that. The witnesses in this case described the
Speaker 3: two individuals as two light skinned males that looked like brothers.
Speaker 3: For they'll hover, it's the same skin complexion as Steph Curry,
Speaker 3: and you would put me as the same complexion as
Speaker 3: maybe Lebron James or Dwayne Wade maybe. And I'm sitting
Speaker 3: there and I'm like, these human beings in this jury
Speaker 3: box has to understand that me and Cordell Hubbard could
Speaker 3: never look alike on no scene, no setting, whatsoever, two
Speaker 3: different shades of color completely. But when you get a
Speaker 3: jury that's not from my culture of my background, they
Speaker 3: just see two African Americans, so it was a different
Speaker 3: I didn't know that, but I know now. I'm just
Speaker 3: thinking that everybody knows about light skin and dark skin,
Speaker 3: and that's just common sense. I wasn't aware that there
Speaker 3: are people that live in this world that don't know that.
Speaker 1: So the jury comes back in what was that moment
Speaker 1: or those moments like for you.
Speaker 3: It was a moment of clarity, because before you go
Speaker 3: through those things, you feel like nobody goes to jail
Speaker 3: that didn't do anything unless you know somebody that's actually innocent.
Speaker 3: So I'm sitting there and I'm like, they just found
Speaker 3: me guilty of something I didn't even see. I wasn't
Speaker 3: even nowhere nearer the scene of the crime, hadn't been
Speaker 3: nowhere near that side of the town or anything. But
Speaker 3: to make it even worse that I'm being convicted of
Speaker 3: a crime that the man standing next to me actually
Speaker 3: committed and here I am being found guilty of a
Speaker 3: crime I never saw.
Speaker 1: This episode is brought to you by Stand Together. Stand
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Speaker 3: People improve their lives.
Speaker 1: For more than twenty years, Stand Together and its partners
Speaker 1: have been on the front lines of criminal justice reform.
Speaker 1: By empowering people to take action, supporting nonprofits, and working
Speaker 1: with businesses, Stand Together tackles the root causes of problems
Speaker 1: in our communities and empowers those closest to the problems
Speaker 1: to drive solutions. Solutions like reducing unjust prison sentences through
Speaker 1: the First Step Act, empowering community based programs and help
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Speaker 1: visit standtogether dot org slash conviction. This episode is underwritten
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Speaker 3: It was an even heavier blow between me being convicted
Speaker 3: and me going to prison, because Creil Hubber comes forward
Speaker 3: and he admits that he killed Omar Clark, and he
Speaker 3: admits that William Sizon World was with him and that
Speaker 3: I was nowhere near that, and that he played on
Speaker 3: my innocence to get free, and now he wants to
Speaker 3: tell the truth. So when we get ready to go
Speaker 3: to Sensing, the plan is he selling his attorney that
Speaker 3: when we go to Senson there were news cameras in
Speaker 3: there and media in there, So he was saying like,
Speaker 3: I'm going to speak the truth in front of the
Speaker 3: cameras and blow this whole thing up. So I don't
Speaker 3: know if his lawyer plays both sides or what. But
Speaker 3: we go to Sencent and are judged. She kicks the
Speaker 3: media out of the courtroom before court starts. Cordial still
Speaker 3: confesses to the crime, and she still convicts me right
Speaker 3: there on the spot, sends me to twenty eight years
Speaker 3: to life.
Speaker 1: He's actually solving the case for them, right, he's identified,
Speaker 1: which took some courage. I mean it was too it
Speaker 1: was too late as it turns out, but it did
Speaker 1: take some courage. Hubbard signed a Swan statement right claiming
Speaker 1: that Rouel was not with him at the crime scene,
Speaker 1: and he said it was quote unquote, it was a
Speaker 1: guy named Will and he meant by that Will size bore.
Speaker 1: And it goes on to say, I didn't think it
Speaker 1: was going to turn out like this. I didn't think
Speaker 1: my best friend would get convicted as a shooter. But
Speaker 1: he wasn't even there.
Speaker 3: So I have to follow a new trial motion based
Speaker 3: on Cordell's affidavit amanting to this crime. We sent subpoenas
Speaker 3: to William Sizemore. So we have this retrial here where
Speaker 3: we present all to the courts. Cordeal takes the stand
Speaker 3: at the retrial here stead he killed Omar Clark, describes
Speaker 3: the whole night in detail, how it happened, how he left,
Speaker 3: everything that happens. Before Cordell can make it back to
Speaker 3: his seats, he denies me a new trial, then sends
Speaker 3: me to prison.
Speaker 1: Jennifer, help us out here. What was going on here
Speaker 1: that they were so actively disinterested in knowing what really happened.
Speaker 2: I don't have an answer for that. I don't know
Speaker 2: how you could hear that testimony and not try to
Speaker 2: fix this wrong.
Speaker 1: So, I mean, years go by and we're all the
Speaker 1: way to twenty thirteen, when you filed another petition asking
Speaker 1: for a new trial based on another sworn AFFI, David, right, right,
Speaker 1: Do you want to walk us through that.
Speaker 3: You Mark Clark, the victim's brother, Omark Clark's brother. He
Speaker 3: was heavily involved in the whole entire investigation. And that's
Speaker 3: how a lot of things worked out on the Cordell
Speaker 3: and the Cole Hubberd side, because you work. Clark would
Speaker 3: go talk to the witnesses, he would go talk to Williams,
Speaker 3: and he would go relay everything he found out in
Speaker 3: the streets to the police, and that's how they found
Speaker 3: out who Cordell and the Cole Hover even was. Fast forward.
Speaker 3: You Mark Clarker's in prison. I write him a letter
Speaker 3: and he writes me back. He tells me that days
Speaker 3: after trial he knew the truth. William Sizemore had came
Speaker 3: forward to him and told him that he was with
Speaker 3: Cordell the night of the shooting, that Cordell killed his brother.
Speaker 3: He said, Man, send a lawyer at me, or send
Speaker 3: an investigator at me. I'll do an affidavit. So I'm
Speaker 3: thinking this was the mother load right here. So I'll
Speaker 3: get the affidavit. I found me a new trial motion again,
Speaker 3: this newly discovered evidence. The same judge, Nancy McDonald.
Speaker 1: I feel like it would be a more objective process
Speaker 1: if it was a different judge. But she denied that
Speaker 1: petition without a hearing. The petition's dismissal was upheld on
Speaker 1: appeal in twenty fourteen. And then how did you end
Speaker 1: up contacting the Ohio Innocence Project.
Speaker 3: I had wrote to the Ohio Interest Project. They never
Speaker 3: denied my case, they just at the times that I
Speaker 3: wrote them. They responded saying they had a heavy case load.
Speaker 3: So I understood that I'm going to keep fighting and
Speaker 3: keep building evidence as I go, so if they do
Speaker 3: come along, I'll have enough. And in the midst of that,
Speaker 3: I had retained the attorney, amazing attorney, Kimberly Curel, my wife,
Speaker 3: Amy Saylor, my family. They was out here and they
Speaker 3: was be down doors having rallies. And then Kyle Swinson
Speaker 3: from the Scene magazine had did an article on me
Speaker 3: and I had like a ten pay spread and the
Speaker 3: Ohio Interest Project and then they had contacted me. They
Speaker 3: had seen the traction I had with my cases was going.
Speaker 3: They looked into it, and Jennifer and this student Andrew
Speaker 3: and Ruby, they came to see me I was in
Speaker 3: Ohio State Penitentiary and went over my case and I
Speaker 3: just I just knew right then and there, like I
Speaker 3: was about to go home.
Speaker 1: So, Jennifer, how did you crack this case?
Speaker 2: There was really nothing to crack. I mean, by the
Speaker 2: time we got the case, we knew exactly what had
Speaker 2: happened because everybody had already explained that Cordell admitted he
Speaker 2: was the shooter. We knew William Sizemore it admitted he
Speaker 2: was the second person there, and so there really wasn't
Speaker 2: anything to solve. We knew from the get go that
Speaker 2: Ruel wasn't there and had nothing to do with it.
Speaker 2: The challenge was to convince the prosecutor in the court
Speaker 2: to let him out of prison since he was innocent,
Speaker 2: and that's what took a long time. So in the
Speaker 2: spring of twenty sixteen, I think his other attorney, Kim,
Speaker 2: we started working cooperatively together to try to figure out
Speaker 2: a plan to get Ruel out and then we were
Speaker 2: kind of working with additional investigation to try to find
Speaker 2: anything else we could, and that's where we got additional
Speaker 2: affidavits from some of the alibi witnesses and from Nicole Hubbard.
Speaker 2: And because he'd already filed as we were talking about,
Speaker 2: before these new trial motions that had been denied, it
Speaker 2: looked like the best path for him was to try
Speaker 2: the conviction Integrity Unit that had opened in Cuyahoga County.
Speaker 3: My whole time at prison, every attorney, every investigator, everybody
Speaker 3: always told me like, if William Sizemore was to ever
Speaker 3: come forward and tell the truth, that's your go to key,
Speaker 3: you walking out of prison. So I'm in Lucasville and
Speaker 3: I get a phone called and Kim is crying. As
Speaker 3: soon as I called, I'm like, why why is she crying?
Speaker 3: She's like, William Sizemore just went to the prosecutor's office
Speaker 3: and told the truth. So in my mind, they about
Speaker 3: to come pop my door in the next five minutes
Speaker 3: and I'm about to walk out of here. It didn't
Speaker 3: happen like that, though, Like I still sat in prison
Speaker 3: for like almost eight nine months. After William Sizemore came
Speaker 3: forward and told the truth and the prosecutors from the CiU,
Speaker 3: Russell tied him and Kim came to see me and
Speaker 3: he's like, well, we gotta do some more investigating. And
Speaker 3: at this point, William Sizemore has admitted that he was
Speaker 3: with Cordial Hubbard and that Cordill Hubbard shot Odmark Clark
Speaker 3: in self defense and said that old Mark Clark had
Speaker 3: a gun. Williams had came forward and recanted and said
Speaker 3: he never saw me a day of his life and
Speaker 3: that they made him say that I was the shooter.
Speaker 3: My witness is body Netto's Anthony McKenzie. They've came forward
Speaker 3: and told the truth that they was threatened. Correll has admitted,
Speaker 3: So I have all this evidence mounted with me saying
Speaker 3: that I'm innocent, and the prosecutor told me that he
Speaker 3: had to go do more investigation and was going to
Speaker 3: leave me in prison. So I had to ask, well,
Speaker 3: where's William sideboard and he told me William Sizemore was
Speaker 3: at home because he didn't see him as a suspect.
Speaker 3: The system is not built right at all.
Speaker 1: Was there a worst moment in that fifteen years, in
Speaker 1: that very very dark place where you almost gave up,
Speaker 1: or where it's just a moment of absolute despair And
Speaker 1: at the same time, what was the happiest moment.
Speaker 3: Well, the happiest moment would be they told me I
Speaker 3: was going home. But just a quick how I went
Speaker 3: from dark to light. I was in Lucasville and it's
Speaker 3: like the worst prison in Ohio, hands down. And I
Speaker 3: was I was on a straight path. I was stayed
Speaker 3: out of trouble, and I was trying to get my
Speaker 3: status dropped so I can go to a lower level prison.
Speaker 3: And right before I went up to get up my
Speaker 3: status dropped for a lower level prison, I was a
Speaker 3: porter and a dust pan had came up missing. Now,
Speaker 3: a dustpan in any other prison or any other times
Speaker 3: is a minor thing. They don't make a big deal
Speaker 3: about it or nothing. But this particular time, they made
Speaker 3: the biggest deal about this dust pan. And they tried
Speaker 3: to give me like a LC which is like sixty
Speaker 3: days in the hole and segregation, and they tried to
Speaker 3: take my status being lowered away from me and all
Speaker 3: these things and my phone privileges and my visit privileges,
Speaker 3: and it was like it just came out of nowhere,
Speaker 3: and it was like I didn't even do nothing. It
Speaker 3: was like this is the story of my life. And
Speaker 3: so they put me in the hole and They wouldn't
Speaker 3: trying to hear me out. They weren't trying to wash
Speaker 3: the camera to see. They have these high tech cameras,
Speaker 3: and I just keep saying, wash the camera. It's just
Speaker 3: something simple. Wash the camera. You would see I didn't
Speaker 3: touch the dust pan. They refused to wash the camera.
Speaker 3: So it was like this is it set up or something?
Speaker 3: And I got to the whole. I just went on
Speaker 3: a hunger strike because I had to fight for my
Speaker 3: way without being violent or being rude or anything like that.
Speaker 3: So I just refused to eat me refusing to eat
Speaker 3: being the person I was in prison, I was had
Speaker 3: a little bit of a mount of respect. A lot
Speaker 3: of other guys follow suit, and they refused they trades
Speaker 3: on account what they was doing to me because everybody
Speaker 3: knew they never did. It's a lot of dust bands.
Speaker 3: So long story short, I went to do like seven eight,
Speaker 3: I think like ten days on hunger strike in solitary confinement,
Speaker 3: not a soul around me. I'm by myself, and it's
Speaker 3: like I'm just feeling like this damn near to eat.
Speaker 3: I'm feeling like I'm about to die in the CeAl.
Speaker 3: I ain't eight. I'm not feeling good and they come
Speaker 3: get me. So I had a lawyer phone call and
Speaker 3: I came got the phone. It was genderfer Kim and
Speaker 3: the Channel five news from my city, Joe Packin Naggas
Speaker 3: all on three way on the phone with me, and
Speaker 3: I'm like, what's going on? What was going on? And
Speaker 3: they was like, that's it, You're coming home. You'd be
Speaker 3: out a couple of days. It went from like the
Speaker 3: worst time in prison to the best time in prison,
Speaker 3: all one cycle, for.
Speaker 1: The literal depths of despair, starving alone in solitary confinement
Speaker 1: for another crime E didn't commitment.
Speaker 3: And then they finally decide to watch the camera and
Speaker 3: another porter head through the dustband in the trash by mistake.
Speaker 1: Ultimately, you obviously were freed. And when I say freed,
Speaker 1: I chose that word carefully because even after all of this,
Speaker 1: they still weren't done messing with you, right, Because what
Speaker 1: I'm referring to is, in March twenty eighteen, the prosecutor
Speaker 1: Andrew Well's team file the joint motion vacating conviction all
Speaker 1: the convictions and dismissing all the charges. But there was
Speaker 1: another little dirty trick, right, which is that the prosecution
Speaker 1: had a caveat, and they said to you, well that
Speaker 1: you had to plead guilty to perjury and obstruction of justice,
Speaker 1: saying that you had falsely testified at trial that Cordell
Speaker 1: was not involved in the shooting, and in exchange for this,
Speaker 1: they were willing to re sentence you to ten years,
Speaker 1: which obviously you had already served a lot longer than that,
Speaker 1: and you could go home.
Speaker 3: I never disclosed at pordial and William Size more than
Speaker 3: left the board, and I stayed. I never really lied.
Speaker 3: We was together all that night, which I didn't find
Speaker 3: out he left the board to after the fact. And
Speaker 3: so they told me that I lied. Understand I committee perjury,
Speaker 3: perjury and obstrusting the justice. They gave me five years
Speaker 3: max on each one equal to ten years. And at
Speaker 3: this point they hold it in front of me like, well,
Speaker 3: you can go home right now. If you agreed it is,
Speaker 3: you can go home. You don't agree it is, you
Speaker 3: know telling how long it might take for us to
Speaker 3: get you a new trial, starty, It might take a year,
Speaker 3: it might take two years, who knows, but you can
Speaker 3: go home right now. Did you say you take these
Speaker 3: ten years time? Serve? So I agreed to it, even
Speaker 3: though I know it wasn't right. I agreed to it
Speaker 3: because I wanted to go home. Who don't want to
Speaker 3: go home after being in jail for fifteen years? What
Speaker 3: primary didn't commit?
Speaker 1: It's an unreal story. And of course, now fast forward
Speaker 1: to March of twenty twenty, you file the federal civil
Speaker 1: rights lawsuit against the Cleveland Police Department and non officers
Speaker 1: seeking damages for your wrongful conviction, and your team also
Speaker 1: filed a separate complaint in the Kuyahoga Court of Climbing
Speaker 1: Polease to have you declared wrongfully in prisoned and therefore
Speaker 1: eligible for state compensation or actually innocent, however you want
Speaker 1: to look at it, So we don't need to get
Speaker 1: into that now. But I just want to say that
Speaker 1: all of us in the family, the roycal conviction family,
Speaker 1: and and it's community are all rooting for you.
Speaker 3: I can't let this platform go without sharing where I'm
Speaker 3: at currently since being released. I married my wife on
Speaker 3: my one year anniversary March twenty eighth. As of recently,
Speaker 3: I just had a daughter, Mayels. She was born on
Speaker 3: the twelfth of October. I started a business when I
Speaker 3: came home from prison. I still a clothing line call
Speaker 3: Comma Club Clothing. The Comma means continuation. The mantra is
Speaker 3: my story is not over. No one's story is ever over.
Speaker 3: As long as you get up and continue to fight
Speaker 3: what you want in life, your story is never over.
Speaker 3: I've done speaking engagements. I go to high schools, colleges
Speaker 3: and tell my story and you can find me on
Speaker 3: Instagram at Comma Underscore Club Underscore Clothing. Thank you.
Speaker 1: That's Comma Underscore Club Underscore Clothing. Follow Ruel. The clothes
Speaker 1: are great. I've seen them and they're comfortable too. So
Speaker 1: I'm giving up. I'm giving my plug. So now this
Speaker 1: is the part of the podcast, which is my favorite part.
Speaker 1: I always say that because this is the part where
Speaker 1: I get to first of all, I think both of
Speaker 1: you for coming and taking your time and sharing your
Speaker 1: story and just for being freedom fighters that you are.
Speaker 1: And so Jennifer Passion Vergeron, thank you again for being
Speaker 1: on the show today.
Speaker 2: It's been my pleasure.
Speaker 1: Thank you, and Ruell you know, once again you're a
Speaker 1: hero to me and so many others. And I'm just
Speaker 1: so thrilled that we got to talk today, and you
Speaker 1: know we're going to be friends for a long time,
Speaker 1: So thanks again for sharing your strength and your spirit
Speaker 1: with the audience. Oh thank you for having me on
Speaker 1: one hundred percent. So now what happens is I turned
Speaker 1: my microphone off, kick back, close my eyes and just
Speaker 1: listen to closing arguments. Jennifer you first, please, and then
Speaker 1: you can just hand it off to ru Well.
Speaker 2: I just want to say thank you to everyone for
Speaker 2: listening and being interested in these issues because they are
Speaker 2: pervasive throughout the country and they need to be heard.
Speaker 2: The stories and the exoneries and just the awareness in general.
Speaker 2: And if you get the chance to work on a jury,
Speaker 2: please do so and just be skeptical and look for
Speaker 2: the truth.
Speaker 3: Jennifer, I love you, Thank you for what you've done.
Speaker 3: And I can't leave this podcast without giving my wife,
Speaker 3: Amy Saylor her roses, as well as Kim Correll and
Speaker 3: Tim Pablished, Andrew and Ruby and work at the OP.
Speaker 3: I wouldn't be seeing her having this conversation. It wouldn't
Speaker 3: for these people because they fought for me on the outside.
Speaker 3: Like Kim Corell was my attorney. She did ten times
Speaker 3: more than what I paid her for. Leave that and
Speaker 3: she's been a friend from their own out and the
Speaker 3: op has tocome a family. They don't just get you
Speaker 3: out of prison, but they stick with you the whole
Speaker 3: time while you're out. I just wanted to just give
Speaker 3: all them their flowers. Now I get a joy out
Speaker 3: of just sharing my story. It's about the awareness of
Speaker 3: what's going on in our world, our country, far as
Speaker 3: our legal system and how our courts, police officers, things
Speaker 3: of that nature. The jury's handle theirselves because I was
Speaker 3: once that person that didn't believe these things happen. So
Speaker 3: the more we share stories like minds and others, we
Speaker 3: wake up more people than know that these things actually happen.
Speaker 3: If you know someone in prison, please contact them, Please
Speaker 3: come and gaze in their cases. Just be there for
Speaker 3: those guys that are in prison. There are a lot
Speaker 3: more guys in prison that are innocent. I say that
Speaker 3: over and over again. There are so many more. I'm
Speaker 3: just one of many that happen to make it out.
Speaker 3: There's so many more in there. So I encourage people
Speaker 3: to be on the jury Listen, be attentive, study these cases.
Speaker 3: If you're in the jury, and just help people that
Speaker 3: you know that's are incarcerated. Write them, send them a letter,
Speaker 3: give them a phone call anything like that because it
Speaker 3: means a lot. It means a lot more than you
Speaker 3: may think.
Speaker 1: Thank you for listening to Wrongful Conviction with Jason Flamm.
Speaker 1: Please support your local innocence projects and go to the
Speaker 1: link in our bio to see how you can help.
Speaker 1: I'd like to thank our production team Connor Hall, Jeff
Speaker 1: Cliburn and Kevin Warnis. The music on the show, as always,
Speaker 1: is by three time OSCAR nominated compe Jay Ralph. Be
Speaker 1: sure to follow us on Instagram at Wrongful Conviction and
Speaker 1: on Facebook at Wrongful Conviction Podcast. Wrongful Conviction with Jason
Speaker 1: Flamm is a production of Lava for Good Podcasts in
Speaker 1: association with Signal Company Number one