Speaker 1: Best friends, Cordel Hubbard and Ruelle Sailor, were small time
Speaker 1: dealers on the East side of Cleveland. On November sixteenth,
Speaker 1: two thousand two, Cordell's sister Nicole was out partying with
Speaker 1: some friends. She fronted the group twenty bucks for drugs,
Speaker 1: but felt taken advantage of when she only got ten
Speaker 1: dollars back from the group of five. When she spoke up,
Speaker 1: a gun was pulled on her, so she called Cordel.
Speaker 1: While celebrating a birthday at a bar with a large
Speaker 1: group including will Sizemore and Rulle, Cordell answered the call
Speaker 1: from Nicole and took Sizemore along to confront the two
Speaker 1: men who had done her wrong, Omar Clark and Clark
Speaker 1: Lamar Williams. They pulled up on these men on a
Speaker 1: darkened street, and Sizemore initially got out of the pastures
Speaker 1: side and confronted them about his sister, leading witnesses to
Speaker 1: believe that the passenger was Cordell. Cordell got out of
Speaker 1: the driver's side. Omar Clark pulled a gun and Cordell
Speaker 1: shot him in self defense, while the other man, will
Speaker 1: Him's got caught with a bullet in his buttocks as
Speaker 1: he ran away. Ruell was clearly not involved, but his
Speaker 1: tight friendship with Cordell and his days in the streets
Speaker 1: would come back to haunt him. A corrupt vice detective
Speaker 1: who had once vowed to get Ruell would use this opportunity,
Speaker 1: claiming an informant had told him that Ruell was the
Speaker 1: other man with Cordell while threatening and coercing Ruelle's alibi
Speaker 1: witnesses into silence. Even with Cordell taking full responsibility and
Speaker 1: naming Will Sizemore as the other man before sentencing, Ruell
Speaker 1: still spent fifteen years behind bars. This is Wrongful Conviction
Speaker 1: with Jason Flom. Welcome back to Wrongful Conviction with Jason Flam.
Speaker 1: That's me. I'm your host, and today, if I was
Speaker 1: going to title this episode, I would call it Web
Speaker 1: of Lies, because this case was built on so many
Speaker 1: different layers of lies, so many different people had to
Speaker 1: tell in order to convict an innocent man named Ruel
Speaker 1: Sailor of murder and other charges. So we'll get right
Speaker 1: into it. First of all, I want to introduce the
Speaker 1: woman who was responsible for Ruele winning his freedom a
Speaker 1: couple of years ago. Jennifer Passion Bergeron, who is the
Speaker 1: deputy director of the Ohio Innocence Project. So, Jennifer, welcome
Speaker 1: to Ronfa Conviction. Thank you, it's good to be here.
Speaker 1: I would pretty remiss if I didn't give a shout
Speaker 1: out to to Kim Carral too, because she was in
Speaker 1: private attorney that worked with me on this case. Thank
Speaker 1: you for doing that. And without further Ado Ruel Sailor,
Speaker 1: welcome to ron Conviction. Thank you for having me. And
Speaker 1: let's start in the beginning. So did you grow up
Speaker 1: in Cleveland on the east side, the sank Clear area
Speaker 1: in east side of Cleveland. My mother, for as I remember,
Speaker 1: she always was a nurse. Sometimes you worked to three
Speaker 1: ships to day. My father was he was there, then
Speaker 1: he wasn't there. He was um in the streets. But
Speaker 1: then I had started get older, I had to be
Speaker 1: there to help out with my siblings. I have a
Speaker 1: younger brother and sister. So once my dad wasn't there,
Speaker 1: it was just us. And then as a teenager, I
Speaker 1: took more into the streets than school because I felt
Speaker 1: like I had to help my mom with my siblings.
Speaker 1: So I begin like to sell drugs at a young age,
Speaker 1: and I talked out of high school like temporary. Tell
Speaker 1: us about Cordel Hubbard because he really is a central
Speaker 1: figure and this really crazy crime. Well back history of
Speaker 1: Cordell Hubbard. Me and Cordell Hubbard met him third grade
Speaker 1: and for some reason we ended up in the same
Speaker 1: class every grade throughout our whole entire school year up
Speaker 1: to high school. So he was always best friends and Jennifer.
Speaker 1: This started from a drug deal gone bad, right, but
Speaker 1: a very minor drug deal at that And this goes
Speaker 1: back to the night of November sixteenth of two thousand two.
Speaker 1: One of the people that will be talking about is
Speaker 1: Clark Lamar Williams, and we'll just refer to him as
Speaker 1: Williams just to try to make it simpler. My understanding
Speaker 1: is Nicole Hubbard was with Omar Clark and Williams and
Speaker 1: a couple of her friends that night and they were driving.
Speaker 1: Omar Clark and Williams stood buy a wet cigarette, one
Speaker 1: cigarette with PCP and I guess it was twenty bucks
Speaker 1: and Nicole front of the twenty bucks. So when they stopped,
Speaker 1: I think it was Omar Clark that went in to
Speaker 1: get the money to pay her back, but didn't come
Speaker 1: back with twenty bucks, came back with only ten bucks,
Speaker 1: apparently because everyone had taken turned smoking, so I guess
Speaker 1: he figured he only needed to pay half of it.
Speaker 1: I don't know, but in any case, this did not
Speaker 1: go over well into Cole Hubbard. And my understanding is
Speaker 1: Omar pulled a gun on her and that's when she
Speaker 1: called her brother and things escalated from there. Me and
Speaker 1: Rdio Hubbard he was happy to be out son of
Speaker 1: branding one of our friend's birthdays west of board and
Speaker 1: Cordell had received a phone call from his sister, the
Speaker 1: cod Hubbert, him and William Sizemore left the board if
Speaker 1: he was at and went to go to confront these
Speaker 1: guys about his sister, to go see about her well being,
Speaker 1: because he thought she was still there, and when he
Speaker 1: got there, she was gone. To my understanding from when
Speaker 1: I was told like old Mark Clark put a gun
Speaker 1: on Cordell Hubert twice and Cordell Hubbard shot open work
Speaker 1: Clark and self defense. Omar Clark was shot eleven times
Speaker 1: and Mr Williams was running away from the scene and
Speaker 1: was shot. He was lucky to be shot in the
Speaker 1: butt and and therefore not badly hurt. And the two
Speaker 1: men drove off afterwards, and so the witnesses that was
Speaker 1: on the scene had confused the driver and the passenger.
Speaker 1: William Sizemore was the passenger, Cordelle Hubbard was the driver,
Speaker 1: and William Sizemore got out and confronted the individuals saying,
Speaker 1: what y'all do to my sister? So the witnesses on
Speaker 1: that street automatically assumed that the brother was the passenger,
Speaker 1: and that's where the confusion came at. So they always
Speaker 1: had put Cordell on the passenger side, and they didn't
Speaker 1: know who the driver was. So when they arrested Cordell
Speaker 1: for this crime, they were charging him as accomplice because
Speaker 1: the driver was the shoot it and they didn't have
Speaker 1: a second person. And going back to my history in
Speaker 1: the streets, there was a vice cop from my neighborhood
Speaker 1: that particularly didn't get along with me per se, and
Speaker 1: he had planned drugs on me once before and I
Speaker 1: didn't go to prison, and he felt that I said
Speaker 1: went to prison. He told me that he would get
Speaker 1: me one day. And so when Cordell name came up
Speaker 1: in his crime, they automatically just assumed I was with
Speaker 1: Cordell because we've always been together for so many years
Speaker 1: and everyone knew that we was best friends. So this
Speaker 1: cop told the homicide detective that he had a complidicte
Speaker 1: your informant, which was never named, never brought up during
Speaker 1: our trial, just his word. He had to compldict. Your
Speaker 1: informant told him that I was the driver and that
Speaker 1: I was the shooter, and I was arrested based upon that,
Speaker 1: and then then went fast forward. Of course, the March
Speaker 1: twenty six, two thousand three, and a grand jury indicted
Speaker 1: you were well right on charges of murder, kidnapping, and assault.
Speaker 1: But I mean the alibi it's pretty strong in this case, right,
Speaker 1: I mean he was miles and miles away across town
Speaker 1: with lots of other people, right. Yes, we have several
Speaker 1: affidavits from different people later on who could have potentially
Speaker 1: testified at the trial, but they also said in their
Speaker 1: affidavits that they were threatened by the police if they
Speaker 1: did show up to testify. Now, the case went to
Speaker 1: trial in May of two thousand three, and all three
Speaker 1: of you were tried together. First of all, it seems
Speaker 1: like a very quick turnaround. And I can't leave out
Speaker 1: the fact that when I see that the words Cuyahoga County,
Speaker 1: I immediately get the chills because we keep hearing about
Speaker 1: cases from Cuyahoga County wrongful conviction one after the other.
Speaker 1: I was indicted more twenty six. I was arrested April Seco,
Speaker 1: where the Hubbard was already indicted and was out on
Speaker 1: bond and his court day prior to me being arrested.
Speaker 1: The state didn't have any witnesses to come to court.
Speaker 1: So the judge Nancy McDonald told were they all his
Speaker 1: lawyers and the prosecutors, That seems going to reschedule next
Speaker 1: court date for May nineteen. So my understanding that they
Speaker 1: didn't come May nineteenth with witnesses, that the capes would
Speaker 1: be thrown out. In the midst of that, I was
Speaker 1: arrested and they added Cordell in the code to my
Speaker 1: new indictment, but kept they saying court day May nineteenth
Speaker 1: was their original court date to start a trial or
Speaker 1: lawyers four separate trial. They denied it's a separate trial,
Speaker 1: and I had to nearly prepare for a murder trial
Speaker 1: from April second to May nineteenth. Jennifer, this is all
Speaker 1: sounds pretty irregular, even amongst the crazy ship we here
Speaker 1: a week to week on this podcast. Well, I can't
Speaker 1: imagine as an attorney trying to get ready for a
Speaker 1: murder case in basically a month. So I mean that
Speaker 1: set the whole stage for things to just go downhill,
Speaker 1: because there just wasn't time to do the type of
Speaker 1: investigation that would have been necessary to mount the proper defense.
Speaker 1: By the time I had put my witness list together,
Speaker 1: the detective on my case, before I can even make
Speaker 1: calls to get to these witnesses, he had already got
Speaker 1: to him. The board that I was at, he got
Speaker 1: to the owner and he told her that if she
Speaker 1: came to court in my defense, he would he would
Speaker 1: get her board rated, like raided for drugs and shut
Speaker 1: down like he would like planning drugs and her board,
Speaker 1: And he's known for this throughout our neighborhood, so she
Speaker 1: didn't want to jeopardize her business, which I understand. And
Speaker 1: then my other witnesses neighbors in the street life as well,
Speaker 1: and he went to them and threatened them with planning
Speaker 1: drugs on them and getting those guys cases, so they
Speaker 1: didn't come to court. So when it came time for trial,
Speaker 1: I didn't have any out about witnesses that was on
Speaker 1: my list to come to court because this detective had
Speaker 1: winness spoke to all of them and threatened them not
Speaker 1: to come to court. So you didn't have a shot
Speaker 1: hel when it really comes down to it, And I
Speaker 1: don't think the best lawyer in the world could have
Speaker 1: helped you out of that situation with what they were
Speaker 1: willing to do, the links they were willing to go to.
Speaker 1: So the trial, did you think, after having seen all
Speaker 1: the worst of what our quote unquote justice system has
Speaker 1: to offer, did you think that you still have a
Speaker 1: chance to be acquitted. I was skeptical because my jury
Speaker 1: wasn't of my peers. The majority of my jury were older,
Speaker 1: white people from suburban areas. And so the biggest thing
Speaker 1: in this case was identification. There was no physical evidence,
Speaker 1: no scientific evidence, no village casing is none of that.
Speaker 1: The witnesses in this case described the two individuals as
Speaker 1: to light skinned males that looked like brothers. Fordel Hubbard
Speaker 1: is the same skin complexion is Steph Curry, And you
Speaker 1: would put me it's the same complexion. Is maybe Lebron
Speaker 1: James were Dwyane Wade maybe And I'm sitting there and
Speaker 1: I'm like, these human beings in this jury box has
Speaker 1: to understand that me and Cordell Hubbard could never look alike,
Speaker 1: no scene, no setting, whatsoever, two different shades of color completely.
Speaker 1: But when you get a jury that's not from my
Speaker 1: culture and my background, they just see two African Americans,
Speaker 1: so it was a different I didn't I didn't know that,
Speaker 1: but I know now. I'm just thinking everybody knows about
Speaker 1: light skining and dark skin, and that's just common sense.
Speaker 1: I wasn't aware that there are people that live in
Speaker 1: this world that don't know that. So the jury comes
Speaker 1: back in what was that moment or those moments like
Speaker 1: for you, it was a moment of clarity, because before
Speaker 1: you go through those things, you feel like nobody goes
Speaker 1: to jail that didn't do anything unless you know somebody
Speaker 1: that's actually innocent. So I'm sitting there and I'm like,
Speaker 1: they just found me guilty of something I didn't even see.
Speaker 1: I wasn't even nowhere near the scene of the crame,
Speaker 1: hadn't been owhere near that side of town or anything.
Speaker 1: But to make it even worse that I'm being convicted
Speaker 1: of a crime that the man standing next to meet
Speaker 1: actually committed and here I am being found guilty of
Speaker 1: a crime I never saw. This episode is brought to
Speaker 1: you by Stand Together. Stand Together is a philanthropic community
Speaker 1: dedicated to helping people improve their lives. For more than
Speaker 1: twenty years, Stand Together and its partners have been on
Speaker 1: the front lines of criminal justice reform. By empowering people
Speaker 1: to take action, supporting nonprofits, and working with businesses, Stand
Speaker 1: Together tackles the root causes of problems in our communities
Speaker 1: and empowers those closest to the problems to drive solutions.
Speaker 1: Solutions like reducing unjust prison sentences through the First Step Act,
Speaker 1: empowering community based programs that help people re enter society,
Speaker 1: and now working to bridge divides in our communities. To
Speaker 1: learn how you may get involved, visit stand together dot
Speaker 1: org slash conviction. This episode is underwritten by the ai
Speaker 1: G pro Bono Program. A i G is a leading
Speaker 1: global ensure its company, and for over a decade, the
Speaker 1: a i G pro Bono Program has provided thousands of
Speaker 1: hours of free legal services and other support to nonprofit
Speaker 1: organizations and individuals most in need. More recently, the program
Speaker 1: added criminal and social justice reform as a key pillar
Speaker 1: of its mission. It was a even heavier blow between
Speaker 1: me being convicted and me going to prison, because Corel
Speaker 1: Hoeberd comes forward and he admits that he killed o'mar Clark,
Speaker 1: and he admitsed that William sizing World was with him
Speaker 1: and that I was nowhere near that, and that he
Speaker 1: played on my innocence to get free, and now he
Speaker 1: went to tell the truth. So when we get ready
Speaker 1: to go to Senson, the plan is he said his
Speaker 1: attorney that when we go to Censon, there were news
Speaker 1: cameras in their media and there, so he was saying, like,
Speaker 1: I'm going to speak the truth in front of the
Speaker 1: cameras and blow this whole thing up. So I don't
Speaker 1: know if he's a lawyer play both sides or what.
Speaker 1: But we go to since It and our judge she
Speaker 1: keeps the media out of the courtroom before court starts.
Speaker 1: Codill Steal confesses to the crime, and she still convicts
Speaker 1: me right here on the spot, sends me to twenty
Speaker 1: years to life. He's actually solving the case for them,
Speaker 1: right he's identified, which took some courage. I mean it
Speaker 1: was too it was too late as it turns out,
Speaker 1: but it did take some courage. Hubbard signed a swan
Speaker 1: statement right claiming that Roule was not with him at
Speaker 1: the crime scene, and he said it was quote unquote,
Speaker 1: it was a guy named Will and he meant by
Speaker 1: that Will size more. And it goes on to say,
Speaker 1: I didn't think it was gonna turn out like this.
Speaker 1: I didn't think my best friend would get convicted as
Speaker 1: a shooter. But he wasn't even there. So I had
Speaker 1: to follow a new trial motion based on cordials. After
Speaker 1: David meant to this crime, we sent subpoenas to William Sizemore.
Speaker 1: So we have this retrial here where we present order
Speaker 1: to the courts. Cordell takes the stand at the retrial
Speaker 1: here me steady killed Omark. Clark described the whole night
Speaker 1: in detail, how it happened, how we left, everything that happens.
Speaker 1: Before Cordell can make it back to his seat, she
Speaker 1: denies me a new trial. The sence be the prison. Jennifer,
Speaker 1: help us out here. What was going on here that
Speaker 1: they were so actively disinterested in knowing what really happened.
Speaker 1: I don't have an answer for that. I don't know
Speaker 1: how you could hear that testimony and not try to
Speaker 1: fix this wrong. So I mean years go by, and
Speaker 1: we're all the way to two thousand and thirteen when
Speaker 1: you filed another petition asking for a new trial based
Speaker 1: on another sworn AFFI, David, right, do you want to
Speaker 1: walk us through that you weren't Clark the victim's brother.
Speaker 1: Omark Clark's brother. He was heavily involved in the whole
Speaker 1: entire investigation. And that's how a lot of things worked
Speaker 1: out on the Cordell and the Cold Hobbs side, because
Speaker 1: you work. Clark would go talk to the witnesses, he
Speaker 1: would go talk to Williams, and he go relay everything
Speaker 1: he found out in the streets to the police, and
Speaker 1: that's how they called out Cordill and the co Herbert
Speaker 1: even was fast forward. You Mark Carker's in prison. I
Speaker 1: write him a letter and he writes me back. He
Speaker 1: tells me that days after trial he knew the truth.
Speaker 1: William size Moore had came forward to him and told
Speaker 1: him that he was with Cordell the nighted to shoot
Speaker 1: in that Cordill killed his brother. He said, Man, send
Speaker 1: a lawyer at me, or send an investigator at me.
Speaker 1: I'll do it after David. So I'm thinking this was
Speaker 1: the mother load right here, so I'll get the After
Speaker 1: David and I found me a new trial motion again
Speaker 1: this newly discovered evidence. The same judge, Nancy McDonald. I
Speaker 1: feel like it would be a more objective process if
Speaker 1: it was a different judge, but she denied that petition
Speaker 1: without a hearing. The petitions dispenso was up held on
Speaker 1: a pel in two thousand and fourteen. And then how
Speaker 1: did you end up contacting the Ohio Innocence Project. I
Speaker 1: had wrote to the Ohio Instance Project. They never to
Speaker 1: now in my case, they just at the times that
Speaker 1: I wrote them, they responded and they had a heavy caseload.
Speaker 1: So I understood that I'm gonna keep fighting to keep
Speaker 1: building evidence as I go, so they do come along,
Speaker 1: I'll have enough. And in the midst of that, I
Speaker 1: had retained attorney, amazing attorney Kimberly Cruel, my wife, Amy Sailor,
Speaker 1: my family. They was out here and it was be
Speaker 1: Downdoors having rallies. And then Kyle Swinton from the same
Speaker 1: magazine had did an article on me and I had
Speaker 1: like a tempay spread and the Ohio Entesce Project and
Speaker 1: then they had contacted me because they had seemed the
Speaker 1: traction I have with my case. It was going they
Speaker 1: looked into it, and Jennifer and just student Andrew and Ruby,
Speaker 1: they came to see me. I was in Ohio State
Speaker 1: Penitentiary and we went over my case, and I just
Speaker 1: I just knew right then and there, like I was
Speaker 1: about to go home. So, Jennifer, how did you crack
Speaker 1: this case? There was really nothing to crack. I mean,
Speaker 1: by the time we got the case, we knew exactly
Speaker 1: what had happened because everybody had already explained that Cordell
Speaker 1: admitted he was the shooter, knew William Sizemore had admitted
Speaker 1: he was the second person there, and so there really
Speaker 1: wasn't anything to solve. We knew from the get go
Speaker 1: that Ruelle wasn't there and had nothing to do with it.
Speaker 1: The challenge was to convince the prosecutor in the court
Speaker 1: to let him out of prison since he was innocent,
Speaker 1: and that's what took a long time. So in the
Speaker 1: spring of sen I think his other attorney, Kim, we
Speaker 1: started working cooperatively together to try to figure out a
Speaker 1: plan to get Roulet out and then we were kind
Speaker 1: of working with the additional investigation to try to find
Speaker 1: anything else we could, and that's where we got additional
Speaker 1: affidavits from some of the alibi witnesses and from Nicole Hubbard.
Speaker 1: And because he had already filed as we were talking about,
Speaker 1: before these new trial motions that had been denied, it
Speaker 1: looked like the best path for him was to try
Speaker 1: the conviction Integrity Unit that had opened in Cuyahoga County.
Speaker 1: My whole time at prison, every attorney, every investigator, everybody
Speaker 1: always told me, like, if William Sizemore was to ever
Speaker 1: come forward until the truth, that should go to keep
Speaker 1: you walking out of prison. So I'm in Lucasville and
Speaker 1: I get a phone called and Kim is crying, who's
Speaker 1: our called? Well, why why? Why is she crying? And
Speaker 1: She's like, William Sizemore just went to the prosecutor's office
Speaker 1: and told the truth. So in my mind, they're about
Speaker 1: to come pop my door the next five minutes and
Speaker 1: I'm about to walk out of here. It didn't happen
Speaker 1: like that, though, Like I still sat in prison for
Speaker 1: like almost eight nine months after William Sizemore caming forward
Speaker 1: and told the truth, and the prosecutors from the c
Speaker 1: i U. Russell tied him and Kim came to see
Speaker 1: me and he's like, well, we gotta do some more investigating.
Speaker 1: And at this point, William Sizemore has admitted that he
Speaker 1: was with Cordial Hubbard and that Cordial Hubbard shot old
Speaker 1: Mark Clark in self defense and said that old Mark
Speaker 1: Clark had a good Williams had came forward and recan
Speaker 1: it and said he never saw me a day of
Speaker 1: this life, and that they made him say that I
Speaker 1: was the shooter. My witnesses, Body Nettles, Anthony Mackenzie, they've
Speaker 1: came forward and told the truth that they was threatened.
Speaker 1: Korell has admitted, So I have all this evidence mountain
Speaker 1: with me saying that I'm innocent, and the prosecutor told
Speaker 1: me that he had to go do more investigation. It
Speaker 1: was gonna leave me in prison. So I had to ask,
Speaker 1: but where is the William size board And he told
Speaker 1: me William Sizemore was at home because he didn't see
Speaker 1: him as a suspect. The system is not built right
Speaker 1: at all. Was there a worst moment in that fifteen years,
Speaker 1: in that very very dark place where you almost gave up,
Speaker 1: or where it's just a moment of absolute despair and
Speaker 1: and at the same time, what was the happiest moment
Speaker 1: were the happiest moment would be They told me I
Speaker 1: was going home, but just a quick how I went
Speaker 1: from Dirk to light. I was in Lucasville and it's
Speaker 1: like the worst prison in Ohio, hands down. And I
Speaker 1: was I was on a straight path, I'll stay out
Speaker 1: of trouble. And I was trying to get my status
Speaker 1: dropped so I can go to a lower level prison.
Speaker 1: And right before I went up for to get up
Speaker 1: my status dropped for a lower level prison, I was
Speaker 1: a porter and a dust pan had came up missing.
Speaker 1: Now a dust pan any other prison or any other times,
Speaker 1: it's a minor, minor thing, they don't make a big
Speaker 1: deal about it and that. But this particular time they
Speaker 1: made the biggest deal about this dust pan. And they
Speaker 1: tried to give me like ALC which is like CT
Speaker 1: days in the hole segregation, and they tried to take
Speaker 1: my my status being lord away from me and all
Speaker 1: these things and my phone privileges and my visit privileges,
Speaker 1: and it was like it just came out of nowhere,
Speaker 1: and it was like I didn't even do nothing. It
Speaker 1: was like this is the story of my life. And
Speaker 1: so they put me in the hole and they weren't
Speaker 1: trying to hear me out. They weren't trying to watch
Speaker 1: the camera to see. They have these high tech cameras,
Speaker 1: and I just keep saying, watch the camera. It's just
Speaker 1: something simple. Watch the camera. You will see I didn't
Speaker 1: touch the dust pan. They refused to watch the camera.
Speaker 1: So it was like, this is it set up for something?
Speaker 1: And I got to the whole. I just went on
Speaker 1: a hunger strike because I had to fight for my
Speaker 1: my way without being violent or being rude or anything
Speaker 1: like that. So I just refused to eat me refusing
Speaker 1: to eat being the person I was in prison, I
Speaker 1: was had a little bit about of respect. A lot
Speaker 1: of other guys follow suit, and they refused their trades
Speaker 1: on the counter what they was doing to me because
Speaker 1: everybody knew they never did it. A lot of dust
Speaker 1: spans so long, stretty short. I went to do like
Speaker 1: seven eight I think like ten days on hunger strike
Speaker 1: in solitary confinement, not a soul around me and about myself,
Speaker 1: and it's like I'm just feeling like this, damn you're eat.
Speaker 1: I'm feeling like I'm about to die. In the seal.
Speaker 1: I ain't eight, I'm not feeling good, and they come
Speaker 1: give me. So I had a lowyeral phone call and
Speaker 1: I came got the phone. It was Jennifer Kim and
Speaker 1: the Channel five news from my city, Joe paging Nagger
Speaker 1: is all on three way on the phone with me,
Speaker 1: and I'm like, what's going on? What's going on? And
Speaker 1: they was like this sick like you're coming home. You'll
Speaker 1: be all a couple of days, he went from like
Speaker 1: the worst time in prison, two the best time in prison,
Speaker 1: one site for the literal depths of despair, starving alone
Speaker 1: in solitary confinement for another crime you didn't commit, and
Speaker 1: they finally decided to watch the camera and another quarterhead
Speaker 1: through the dustband in the trash by mistake. Ultimately, you
Speaker 1: obviously were freed. And when I say freed, I chose
Speaker 1: that word carefully because even after all of this, they
Speaker 1: still weren't done messing with you, right, Because what I'm
Speaker 1: referring to is in March two thousand and eighteen, the
Speaker 1: prosecutor Andrew Wells team filed the joint motion vacating conviction
Speaker 1: all the convictions and dismissing all the charges But there
Speaker 1: was another little dirty trick, right, which is that the
Speaker 1: prosecution and had a caveat, and they said to you,
Speaker 1: well that you had to plead guilty to perjury and
Speaker 1: obstruction of justice, saying that you had falsely testified at
Speaker 1: trial that Cordell was not involved in the shooting, and
Speaker 1: in exchange for this, they were willing to re sentence
Speaker 1: you to ten years, which obviously you had already served
Speaker 1: a lot longer than that, and you could go home.
Speaker 1: I never disclosed that Portill and William Size worn up
Speaker 1: the board and I stayed. I never really lied, just
Speaker 1: we were together all that night, which I didn't find
Speaker 1: out he left the board so after the fact, and
Speaker 1: so they told me that I I understand I committed perjury, perjury,
Speaker 1: and I'm streuss in the justice. They gave me five
Speaker 1: years maximum, each one equal to ten years. And at
Speaker 1: this point they hold it in front of me like,
Speaker 1: you can go home right now. If you agree it is,
Speaker 1: you can go home. You don't agree it is, you
Speaker 1: know telling how long it might take us to get
Speaker 1: you a new trial story. It might take a year,
Speaker 1: it might take two years, who knows, But you can
Speaker 1: go home right now. You said you take these teen
Speaker 1: years time, sir, so I agreed to it, even though
Speaker 1: I know it wasn't right. I agreed to it because
Speaker 1: I wanted to go home. Don't want to go home
Speaker 1: after being in jail f eighteen years. What primary didn't commit.
Speaker 1: It's an unreal story. And of course, now fast forward
Speaker 1: to March of you file the federal civil rights lawsuit
Speaker 1: against the Cleveland Police Department and nine officers seeking damages
Speaker 1: for the wrongful conviction, and your team also filed a
Speaker 1: separate complaint in the Kuyahoga Court of Climate Police to
Speaker 1: have you declared wrongfully in prison and therefore eligible for
Speaker 1: state compensation or actually innocent, however you want to look
Speaker 1: at it. So we don't need to get into that now.
Speaker 1: But I just want to say that all of us
Speaker 1: in the family, the wrong conviction family, and in this
Speaker 1: community are all rotten for you. I can't let this
Speaker 1: platform go without share where I met currently since being released,
Speaker 1: I married my wife on my one year anniversary, Mark Squinty.
Speaker 1: As recently, I just had a daughter, my Yale's later.
Speaker 1: She was born on the twelfth of October. I started
Speaker 1: a business when I came home from prison. I still
Speaker 1: a clothing line or a comic club clothing. The Comma
Speaker 1: means continuation. The Montrose, My story is not over. No
Speaker 1: one's story is ever over. As long as you get
Speaker 1: up and continue to fight which you want in life,
Speaker 1: your story is never over. I've done speaking of gazements.
Speaker 1: I go to high schools, colleges and tell my story
Speaker 1: and you can find me on Instagram at Comma Underscore
Speaker 1: Club Understore Clothing. Thank you. That's Comma Underscore Club Underscore Clothing.
Speaker 1: Followed well, the clothes are great. I've seen them and
Speaker 1: they're comfortable too. So I'm giving up. I'm giving my plug.
Speaker 1: So now this is the part of the podcast, which
Speaker 1: is my favorite part. I always say that because this
Speaker 1: is the part where I get to First of all,
Speaker 1: I thank both of you for coming and taking your
Speaker 1: time and sharing your story and just for being freedom
Speaker 1: fighters that you are. And so Jennifer Passion Vergeuron, thank
Speaker 1: you again for being on the show today. It's been
Speaker 1: my pleasure. Thank you, and Rull you know, once again
Speaker 1: you're a hero to to me and so many others.
Speaker 1: And I'm just so thrilled that we got to talk today.
Speaker 1: And you know we're going to be friends for a
Speaker 1: long time. So thanks again for sharing your your strength
Speaker 1: and your spirit with the audience. Thank you for having me.
Speaker 1: So now what happens is I turned my microphone off,
Speaker 1: kick back, close my eyes and just listen to closing arguments.
Speaker 1: Jennifer you first, please, and then you can just hand
Speaker 1: it off to Reuel. I just want to say thank
Speaker 1: you to everyone for listening and being interested in these
Speaker 1: issues because they are pervasive throughout the country and they
Speaker 1: need to be heard. The stories and the exonorees and
Speaker 1: just the awareness in general. And if you get the
Speaker 1: chance to work on a jury, please do so and
Speaker 1: just be skeptical and look for the truth. Jennifer, I
Speaker 1: love you, Thank you for all you've done. And I
Speaker 1: can't leave this podcast without giving my wife, Andy Sailor
Speaker 1: her roses, as well as Kim Carrell and Time pablished
Speaker 1: Andrew and Ruby and work at the o I P.
Speaker 1: I wouldn't be seeing her having this conversation. It went
Speaker 1: for these people because they fought for me on the outside.
Speaker 1: Like Kim Carrell was my attorney. She did ten times
Speaker 1: more than what I paid her for. Leave that and
Speaker 1: she's been a friend from their own out and the
Speaker 1: O I P has become a family. They don't just
Speaker 1: get you out of prison, but they're stick with you
Speaker 1: the whole time while you're out. I just want to
Speaker 1: just giving all of them their flowers. Now I get
Speaker 1: a joy just sharing my story. It's about the awareness
Speaker 1: of what's going on in our world, our country for us,
Speaker 1: our legal system, and how our courts, police officers, things
Speaker 1: of that nature and juries handled themselves. Because I was
Speaker 1: once that person that didn't believe these things happened. So
Speaker 1: the more we share stories like mines and others, we
Speaker 1: wake up more people than know that these things actually happen.
Speaker 1: If you know someone in prison, please contact them, Please
Speaker 1: be coming gays in your cases. Just just be there
Speaker 1: for those guys that are in prison. There are a
Speaker 1: lot more guys in prison that are innocent. I say
Speaker 1: that over and over again. There are so many more.
Speaker 1: I'm just I'm just one of many that happen to
Speaker 1: make it out. There's so many more in there. Or
Speaker 1: encourage people to be on the jury listen, be attentive,
Speaker 1: studies cases to do in the jury, and just help
Speaker 1: people that you know us already carcerated. Write them, send
Speaker 1: them a letter, give him a phone call or anything
Speaker 1: like that, because it means a lot. It means a
Speaker 1: lot more than you may think. Thank you for listening
Speaker 1: to Wrong for Conviction with Jason Flam. Please support your
Speaker 1: local innocence projects and go to the link in our
Speaker 1: bio to see how you can help. I'd like to
Speaker 1: thank our production team Connor Hall, Jeff Clyburne and Kevin
Speaker 1: warnas the music on the show. As always, it's by
Speaker 1: three time OSCAR nominated compos Thozer j Ralph. Be sure
Speaker 1: to follow us on Instagram at Wrongful Conviction and on
Speaker 1: Facebook at Wrongful Conviction Podcast. Wrongful Conviction with Jason Flam
Speaker 1: is a production of Lava for Good Podcasts in association
Speaker 1: with Signal Company Number one