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Speaker 1: Hey guys, Saga and Crystal here.

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Speaker 2: Independent media just played a truly massive role in this election,

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Speaker 2: and we are so excited about what that means for

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Speaker 2: the future of the show.

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Speaker 3: This is the only place where you can find honest

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Speaker 3: perspectives from the left and the right that simply does

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Speaker 3: not exist anywhere else.

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Speaker 2: So if that is something that's important to you, please

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Speaker 2: go to Breakingpoints dot com. Become a member today and

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Speaker 3: We need your help to build the future of independent

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Speaker 3: news media and we hope to see you at Breakingpoints

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Speaker 3: dot com.

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Speaker 4: Good morning, everybody, Happy Monday.

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Speaker 1: Have an amazing show for everybody today. What do we have, Crystal,

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Speaker 1: indeed we do.

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Speaker 2: We're going to have Jeremy Scahill joining us to break

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Speaker 2: down where we are with those Gaza peace talks. A

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Speaker 2: lot of developments over the weekend, so he will certainly

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Speaker 2: bring us the latest. He's also going to update us

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Speaker 2: on the treatment of those seized flotilla participants, including one

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Speaker 2: Drop site journalist, so we'll get the latest from him

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Speaker 2: on that. Also, we've got updates overnight as a Trump

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Speaker 2: judge smacks down Trump's attempt to send California National Guard

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Speaker 2: to Portland, Oregon. A lot of moving parts there and

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Speaker 2: a lot going on Chicago Portland in particular, will break

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Speaker 2: that down for you as well.

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Speaker 4: We're taking a look at the economy.

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Speaker 2: Soybean farmers very upset over the tariffs, over China not

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Speaker 2: buying any soybeans anymore, over the bailout of Argentina. One

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Speaker 2: to speaking out in particular, we wanted to make sure

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Speaker 2: to bring you that. We're going to update you on

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Speaker 2: the ongoing government shutdown in particular.

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Speaker 4: We've got some polls about how.

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Speaker 2: Americans are processing what's going on, how they feel about

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Speaker 2: the positions of the two parties and of the president.

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Speaker 2: And we've got Van Jones having to apologize after a

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Speaker 2: discussing quote unquote joke he made about dead Gaza babies

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Speaker 2: to Bill Maher. So we will show you that and

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Speaker 2: the fallout thereof.

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Speaker 1: Yes, that's right.

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Speaker 3: Thank you to everybody who's been supporting the show. We

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Speaker 3: episode to a friend or rate us five stars. It

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Speaker 3: really helps other people find the show. But as chrysl said,

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Speaker 3: let's go ahead and start with the consequential news here

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Speaker 3: of this Gaza potential cease fire deal which may or

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Speaker 3: may not be coming together. Let's go and put this

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Speaker 3: up here on the screen, so over the weekend, breaking

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Speaker 3: news here. Quote based on the statement just issued by Hamas.

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Speaker 3: This is from Donald Trump. I believe they are ready

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Speaker 3: for a lasting piece. Israel must immediately stop the bombing

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Speaker 3: of Gaza so that we can get the hostages out

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Speaker 3: safely and quickly. Right now, it is far too dangerous

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Speaker 3: to do that. We are already in discussions on details

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Speaker 3: to be worked out. This is not about Gaza alone.

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Speaker 3: This is about a long sought piece in the Middle East.

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Speaker 3: And all of this is amid some serious fights between

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Speaker 3: Trump and BB behind the scenes. Not exactly sure what happened,

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Speaker 3: but Trump seems to have had it at least for

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Speaker 3: now with BB. All that could change, and this could

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Speaker 3: all be a ruse, But let's go ahead and put

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Speaker 3: this up.

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Speaker 1: Here on the screen.

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Speaker 3: We are now back to Barak Reved headlines about how

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Speaker 3: the president is fed up with Bbe. This time though

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Speaker 3: it's Trump and he says, quote exclusive Trump on the

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Speaker 3: Gaza peace deal. I said, BIB, this is your chancefer victory.

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Speaker 3: And in it he said, quote BB, this is your

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Speaker 3: chansfer victory.

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Speaker 1: He was fine with it.

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Speaker 3: Trump told me he's got to be fine with it.

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Speaker 3: He has no choice with me. You've got to be fine.

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Speaker 3: And apparently also made some comment about how why are

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Speaker 3: you so negative all the time? To beb Why negative

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Speaker 3: all the time? That's what he said there to BB.

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Speaker 3: I mean part of the context there, however, is that

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Speaker 3: despite Trump's protestations, they are continuing to bomb Gaza. We

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Speaker 3: have some video of that we can put here on

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Speaker 3: the screen. Keep in mind, all of this is after

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Speaker 3: what happened the Trump quote unquote ultimatum or whatever you

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Speaker 3: want to call it, where he said that the Israel

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Speaker 3: must immediately stop bombing Gaza. But you can see that

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Speaker 3: this is going to be very difficult to finesse. There's

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Speaker 3: already been some movement behind the scenes where I believe

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Speaker 3: bb deleted a tweet where he had seemingly agreed or

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Speaker 3: affirmed the peace deal. There's movement inside of the coalition. Remember,

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Speaker 3: I mean these really cabinet explicitly does not want this.

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Speaker 3: They're parts of the Israeli far right coalition backing up

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Speaker 3: BB netsa Yahu Bezel. Smotrich is already quadronic quote red

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Speaker 3: line in the sand where he said, I will agree

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Speaker 3: to know israelly withdrawal from Gaza. They may be able

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Speaker 3: to get around it because there's some alleged buffer zone here.

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Speaker 3: Even people saying that Hamas agreed to the deal is

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Speaker 3: not exactly correct because they did not agree to the

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Speaker 3: entire deal in principle.

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Speaker 1: They said, we agree to parts of this deal.

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Speaker 3: However, we're going to have to negotiate some finer points,

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Speaker 3: of which there will be talks in Cairo starting today

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Speaker 3: with some representatives of the United States of Hamas, by

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Speaker 3: the way, including one of the people Israel tried to

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Speaker 3: blow up.

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Speaker 1: In Doha guitar.

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Speaker 4: So it's injured, Yeah, who was.

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Speaker 1: Injured in the bombing?

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Speaker 3: Pretty insane if you think about it, And so yeah,

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Speaker 3: I mean, I don't know, I think it could go

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Speaker 3: in any different direct This seems to be the closest

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Speaker 3: we've gotten in a long time. That said, Israel tries

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Speaker 3: to blow up the deal every single time. They have

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Speaker 3: no incentive in their cabinet or their government.

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Speaker 1: I'm pretty sure the people want this.

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Speaker 3: Deal, especially to free the hostage, because that's what part

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Speaker 3: of it is. Hamas, I mean, they've been, at least

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Speaker 3: in the last few peace deals, have agreed in principle

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Speaker 3: to a lot of the US negotiat But you can

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Speaker 3: never count out the fact that this could all just

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Speaker 3: be a ruse. Last time there was a ceasefire talk,

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Speaker 3: they blew them up in Doha.

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Speaker 1: Before that, I mean, they blew them up. And remember

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Speaker 1: they blew them.

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Speaker 3: Up in Iran. They've murdered half of the negotiators. And

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Speaker 3: there's a big question too as to whether these Hamas

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Speaker 3: negotiators have any credibility with the battlefield commanders who are

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Speaker 3: left inside of Gaza, because all of the top echelon

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Speaker 3: have all been killed consistently.

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Speaker 1: So there's still so many things that could fall apart in.

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Speaker 2: This deal, and it really does just all come down

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Speaker 2: to Trump, right Hamas craft. And we'll get more from

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Speaker 2: Jeremy on this Hamas crafted their response to make it

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Speaker 2: to lead with the yes right and basically agree to

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Speaker 2: things that they've agreed to effectively since post October seventh. Yes,

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Speaker 2: we'll give you back the hostages. Recall on the table

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Speaker 2: from the beginning has been an all for all deal.

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Speaker 2: We'll give you back your hostages, you give us back

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Speaker 2: our hostages. So they have long agreed to that. Of

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Speaker 2: course they accept the AID provisions. They do not want

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Speaker 2: to be Hamas does not want to be part of governance.

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Speaker 2: That's easy for them to say yes to all of

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Speaker 2: this wild like Tony Blair is going to run the

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Speaker 2: Gaza strip and you know, effectively you're never going to

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Speaker 2: have any ability to effectuate your Palestinian Palestinian liberation goals.

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Speaker 2: All of that part. They're like, we'll talk about that part.

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Speaker 2: They did not agree to that, but they intentionally crafted

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Speaker 2: their response to lead with the pieces they could say

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Speaker 2: yes to, in hopes that Trump would look at that

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Speaker 2: and say, look, they said, yes, we're getting peace, let's

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Speaker 2: move forward, a sort of play to his ego. Now,

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Speaker 2: that is what he has said publicly. He said, look,

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Speaker 2: Hamas appears like they really want peace. Israel must stop

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Speaker 2: bombing but on the other hand, Israel has no stop bombing.

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Speaker 2: Some seventy at least Palestinians have been killed since Trump

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Speaker 2: said you must stop bombing, and there has been no

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Speaker 2: insistence from Trump that Israel actually respect his wishes and

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Speaker 2: the terms of this nascent peace deal in these negotiations

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Speaker 2: as they move forward. On the Israeli side, yeah, net

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Speaker 2: Nyahu has gone out of his way to poison every

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Speaker 2: negotiation we've seen so far, and what he's broadcasting to

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Speaker 2: the Israeli domestic audience is basically like, don't worry, we're

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Speaker 2: never going to have to withdraw from the Gaza strip.

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Speaker 2: We're going to keep it under control. We're going to

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Speaker 2: get everything that we've ever wanted here. So as everybody

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Speaker 2: heads to Cairo and these negotiating teams come together to

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Speaker 2: see if there's something they can do here, there are

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Speaker 2: a million questions to be answered about whether this is

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Speaker 2: actually going to be able to achieve even a brief ceasefire.

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Speaker 2: So that's where things stand. And the reason I say

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Speaker 2: it really comes down to Trump is because he's the

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Speaker 2: one ultimately who has to pull the pin on Israel

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Speaker 2: saying no, we're done, We're not supplying we're not helping you.

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Speaker 2: You actually have to abide by these terms. He's the

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Speaker 2: one also who has to ignore the voices in his

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Speaker 2: own coalition, like Lindsey Graham, who's out there saying, oh, look,

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Speaker 2: Hama said no to this deal. You know you can't

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Speaker 2: work with them. We've got to go immediately back to

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Speaker 2: the genocide. So a lot of a lot of big

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Speaker 2: questions this morning about how this is all going to

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Speaker 2: or if it's all going to come together.

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Speaker 4: It's very odd.

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Speaker 3: I mean, front page of Haretz right now is quote

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Speaker 3: Trump shifts into high gears, end war, Netta Yah, who

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Speaker 3: knows he can't stop him.

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Speaker 1: I don't really know what that means.

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Speaker 3: I mean, really, what a lot of it is the

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Speaker 3: nets on Yah who playbook is just to basically drag

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Speaker 3: things out as long as possible. As you mentioned, we

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Speaker 3: are meeting apparently in Cairo. Let's go and put that

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Speaker 3: up there on the screen, please. From the Wall Street Journal,

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Speaker 3: the ceasefire talks are set to start today in Egypt,

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Speaker 3: and so delegations from the United States, from Israel, Hamas,

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Speaker 3: and several other Middle Eastern countries are set to meet

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Speaker 3: from Monday for the anticipated talks, but quote, ending the

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Speaker 3: nearly two year old war remains a distant goal. The

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Speaker 3: parties are going to try to come to an agreement

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Speaker 3: over crucial points, including Israelly military withdrawal lines in Gaza,

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Speaker 3: the names of the high profile palest Indian prisoners to

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Speaker 3: be released in exchange for the remaining four D eight hostages,

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Speaker 3: including as many as twenty that Israel believes to be alive.

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Speaker 3: Even if those talks succeed, they would not immediately end

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Speaker 3: the two year old conflict. Trump said ahead of Monday

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Speaker 3: that the first phase could quote be completed this week.

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Speaker 3: I am asking everyone to move fast. However, the Secretary

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Speaker 3: of State, whenever he was asked about this, said, quote, well,

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Speaker 3: not yet. There's some work that remains to be done.

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Speaker 3: And in fact, even the hostage part of the deal

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Speaker 3: seems to be one of the easier parts in some ways,

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Speaker 3: because what they said is that the plan and the

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Speaker 3: sticking points, which, to be fair, has got to be

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Speaker 3: the biggest sticking point is who gets to govern Gaza

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Speaker 3: after all of this, the Coalitional Provisional Authority of Gaza

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Speaker 3: under the auspices of Donald J. Trump and Tony Blair.

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Speaker 3: I mean that is I mean it's it's crazy. It's

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Speaker 3: literally like a callback to the days of the viceroy

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Speaker 3: and the British Empire in the region, or the United

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Speaker 3: States quasi colonial project of two thousand and three in Iraq,

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Speaker 3: which obviously was a massive disaster.

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Speaker 1: That is not something that people are all going to forget.

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Speaker 1: In the Middle East.

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Speaker 3: Many the Middle Eastern negotiators at the table probably had

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Speaker 3: to deal at some point with the Bush administration, with

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Speaker 3: the you know, invasion of Iraq, the fallout, the terrorism

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Speaker 3: and all of that. So in a lot of ways,

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Speaker 3: you know it, the ceasefire and the hostage deal itself

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Speaker 3: seemed to be one of the easier parts of this,

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Speaker 3: and it's potential if you're Hamas, you're in such a

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Speaker 3: sticky situation, and same with the Israelis, where you know,

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Speaker 3: the moment that all those hostages are gone, you have

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Speaker 3: no leverage and so like that's the only thing that

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Speaker 3: the Israelis really care about in terms of their population.

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Speaker 3: That's you know, even forcing some sort of negotiation on this,

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Speaker 3: you because you have all this stuff on the horizon,

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Speaker 3: and if the hostages are gone. Considering the US and

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Speaker 3: Israeli track record of the last eight months, or so,

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Speaker 3: could you really fully trust the guarantee of the United

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Speaker 3: States government that the bombing would not, you know, resume.

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Speaker 1: I don't know.

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Speaker 3: That's part of where I just I keep looking at

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Speaker 3: this and I'm like, look, guys, they tried to kill you.

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Speaker 3: They've literally murdered ninety percent of your top negotiators. Every

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Speaker 3: cease fire has eventually resumed in conflict. To be clear,

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Speaker 3: I'm rooting for a ceasefire. I think that people of

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Speaker 3: Gaza need a break. And that's the only reason Hamas

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Speaker 3: even feels enough pressure is that per Ryan and Jeremy,

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Speaker 3: many of the people inside are like, I don't care

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Speaker 3: what it takes, hands up, just let me live. Who

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Speaker 3: can blame them? Anybody on Twitter, every being go oh

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Speaker 3: this is surrender. Fuck honestly, screw you, like you have

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Speaker 3: no business telling people who have been through two years

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Speaker 3: of bombing and all that how to conduct their affairs.

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Speaker 3: The question for the actual negotiators themselves is can you

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Speaker 3: take that guarantee. That's why I was so upset about

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Speaker 3: the Iran situation, because you could see how are our.

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Speaker 1: Talks going right now with Russia? Anyone want to tell me?

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Speaker 3: You know, they just bomb the shit out of Ukraine

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Speaker 3: because they don't trust US negotiators.

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Speaker 1: Same here with Hamas.

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Speaker 3: Part of the problem with that Ruse is that you

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Speaker 3: set the tone for all time in the future. You

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Speaker 3: cannot trust these people, and they have all taken it

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Speaker 3: at their word, all the serious all the serious adversaries.

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Speaker 3: India they didn't buckle. You have China, they haven't buckled

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Speaker 3: on trade.

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Speaker 1: Russia. Same thing.

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Speaker 3: If you're Hamask obviously in a ten times weaker population

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Speaker 3: or situation, but you're still you know, you have powerful

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Speaker 3: Middle Eastern people and also at your back. I don't know,

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Speaker 3: That's why it seems very difficult for me to see

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Speaker 3: this thing come to a close soon.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I think that that is probably correct, although I

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Speaker 2: mean you have to say, on the other side, what

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Speaker 2: other choice do they have? You know, you're always going

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Speaker 2: to be dealing with the US or untrustworthy Israel who

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Speaker 2: are obviously untrustworthy Ntnyahu who just wants to continue in

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Speaker 2: his coalition and would just want to continue the horror indefinitely.

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Speaker 2: So you know, these are the parties you have to

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Speaker 2: deal with. And one thing that Jeremy always talks about is,

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Speaker 2: you know they really feel like okay, it comes down

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Speaker 2: to Trump. We need to guarantee from Trump that he

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Speaker 2: is going to actually enforce the deal. There is zero

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Speaker 2: track record of that ultimately happening. But the fact that

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Speaker 2: he put himself as like chair of this coalitional, you know,

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Speaker 2: provisional government, was his attempt to be like, oh, I'm

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Speaker 2: going to be the one overseeing it. Don't worry, you

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Speaker 2: can trust me, and I'm going to see this thing through.

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Speaker 2: But the fact that you have Israel continuing to bomb

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Speaker 2: even after Trump told them not to, is one more

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Speaker 2: indication out of I don't know how many at this

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Speaker 2: point that you cannot rely on the US. And of

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Speaker 2: course we can all think back to the original ceasefire

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Speaker 2: that Trump negotiated, which was supposed to move forward. I mean,

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Speaker 2: this was a phased ceasefire agreement. Netyahu said from the

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Speaker 2: very beginning, now we're not going to move forward to

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Speaker 2: the other phases. We're just going to use this to

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Speaker 2: regroup and then we're going to go right back to

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Speaker 2: the genocide. And that's exactly what he did. And Trump

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Speaker 2: did not care about his own achievement in that ceasfire

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Speaker 2: deal to actually enforce it and require the Israelis to

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Speaker 2: abide by the terms of the deal. So you know,

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Speaker 2: if you're Commas, if you're the political leadership, certainly if

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Speaker 2: you're the battlefield commanders, and you know, there may be

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Speaker 2: I think there are very different views from those two

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Speaker 2: separate groups. And you're looking at this situation, Yeah, there's

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Speaker 2: no reason why you should expect that Israel is going

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Speaker 2: to be required to actually abide by the terms of

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Speaker 2: a deal that is also a terrible deal, Like it

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Speaker 2: is not a good deal for the Palestinians in any respect,

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Speaker 2: but it may also be the best that they can get.

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Speaker 2: And there is such horror and desperation that yes, of course,

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Speaker 2: people are just exhausted and like, please just make it stop.

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Speaker 2: Like my kids need to eat, I need to live.

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Speaker 2: I don't want to be displaced anymore. I want to

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Speaker 2: be able to live some sort of life. And if

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Speaker 2: this is the best we can get, we got to

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Speaker 2: do what we got to do.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I think absolutely right.

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Speaker 3: I mean, one of the key things to Jeremy, who

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Speaker 3: is going to I think expound on, is the bitterness

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Speaker 3: for a lot of the people potentially on the ground,

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Speaker 3: because the deal does effectively say an end to all

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Speaker 3: armed resistance, and I mean, if you think about it,

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Speaker 3: how baked in that is to the identity and the

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Speaker 3: political conception of Palestinian not just statehood, but like conception

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Speaker 3: as a people. You know, that's going to be very,

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Speaker 3: very difficult to swallow. Now, It's potential that it may.

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Speaker 3: It may be the most popular thing right now for

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Speaker 3: a lot of people, just because the suffering that they had,

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Speaker 3: they've all had to endure. But who knows, you know,

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Speaker 3: a year, two years, three years effectively from now. So

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Speaker 3: I guess with all of that, we have Jeremy Scales

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Speaker 3: standing by, why don't we get to it joining us now.

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Speaker 3: Jeremy Scale's co founder of drop site News. Great friend

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Speaker 3: of the show. Good to see you, Jeremy, Thanks for

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Speaker 3: joining us, Thanks for having me back. So, Jeremy, there's

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Speaker 3: a lot of developments here. We talked last week about

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Speaker 3: the potential Gaza peace deal. Let's go ahead and put

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Speaker 3: your tweet up on the screen, which is the full

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Speaker 3: response from hamas leadership. Can you break some of this

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Speaker 3: response down? It was sold in the Western Prince as

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Speaker 3: a total agreement. That's not exactly the case, although it

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Speaker 3: is very conciliatory. What are your thoughts here on the

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Speaker 3: statement and what it means for the potential of a ceasefire.

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Speaker 5: You know, I spent much of the last week talking

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Speaker 5: to sources within the Hamas leadership and representatives of Palestinian

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Speaker 5: Islamic Jihad and others who were involved with deliberating exactly

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Speaker 5: how to respond to Donald Trump. And the initial response

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Speaker 5: from Palestinians in all of these factions was that Trump's

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Speaker 5: Gaza plan would be a catastrophic deal for the Palestinians

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Speaker 5: on both the short term level and a long term level.

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Speaker 5: On the short term level, while it did provide for

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Speaker 5: the release of a large number of Palestinian captives in

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Speaker 5: exchange for releasing all of the Israeli captives within a

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Speaker 5: seventy two hour period, it did not have robust guarantees

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Speaker 5: that the war was actually going to end. Yes, Donald

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Speaker 5: Trump said that within seventy two hours, if they're released,

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Speaker 5: there will be an immediate ceasefire. But it didn't have

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Speaker 5: any details that previous agreements had. So the Palestinians looked

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Speaker 5: at that, and then they looked at these sweeping other

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Speaker 5: things about a foreign force being deployed. Donald Trump and

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Speaker 5: Tony Blair essentially dictating the affairs of Gaza major questions

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Speaker 5: that cut to the heart of Palestinian self determination or

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Speaker 5: Palestinian statehood. And so these Palestinian negotiators had to figure

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Speaker 5: out how to thread a needle. And they know that

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Speaker 5: Donald Trump is campaigning for the Nobel Peace Prize. They

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Speaker 5: know that Donald Trump responds well to people saying positive

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Speaker 5: things about him, and so what they tried to do

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Speaker 5: was to give the impression that they were embracing Trump's

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Speaker 5: vision for an end to the war and to affirm

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Speaker 5: that they want to go into an agreement to release

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Speaker 5: all Israeli captives in the context of achieving a ceasefire

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Speaker 5: and the withdrawal of Israeli forces and AID coming back in.

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Speaker 5: But they disagreed with large portions of Trump's plan. So

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Speaker 5: what they ended up on is a document that actually,

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Speaker 5: just on an independent strategic level, is quite brilliant because

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Speaker 5: what they do is they center what they know Trump

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Speaker 5: most wanted was to hear Hamas saying two things, we

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Speaker 5: will release all of the Israeli captives and we will

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Speaker 5: relinquish power in Gaza. Now, we've talked on this show

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Speaker 5: repeatedly about the fact that those are not new positions

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Speaker 5: on the part of Hamas, they've tried to make an

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Speaker 5: all for all deal. They've said that they would step down,

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Speaker 5: but they really they led with that, and they thanked

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Speaker 5: Trump for his efforts along with Arab and Muslim nations,

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Speaker 5: and they said that they're ready to make a deal.

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Speaker 5: But the second part of what they did, and this

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Speaker 5: is why I think a lot of Palestinians felt that

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Speaker 5: they threaded the needle well, is they didn't reject anything

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Speaker 5: that Trump said, but they said, Hamas is not Palestine.

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Speaker 5: Hamas is one actor. We can negotiate issues related to

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Speaker 5: the war because we're holding the captives and we're fighting

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Speaker 5: the war. But if you want to talk about all

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Speaker 5: these other issues, let's do it. But it has to

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Speaker 5: be in the context of a broader Palestinian dialogue. So

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Speaker 5: that's where things stand right now. There are indirect negotiations

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Speaker 5: that are supposed to kick off this week in Egypt.

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Speaker 5: The US and Israel, though said today that they're not

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Speaker 5: going to start doing the negotiations until Hamas first meets

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Speaker 5: with the Egyptians, the Qataris, and the Turks. And what

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Speaker 5: I'm told is that the America and Israelis are basically

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Speaker 5: pushing this idea that the Palestinians first need to agree

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Speaker 5: to release all of those captives, and that it cannot

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Speaker 5: be linked to a permanent Israeli withdrawal. That's going to

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Speaker 5: be a major sticking point. We have to see again

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Speaker 5: what Trump says, because at the end of the day,

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Speaker 5: he's the decisive factor. He's the only one that can

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Speaker 5: get Israel to back off of its maximalist agenda.

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Speaker 2: Guys, let's go ahead and put a six up on

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Speaker 2: the screen. This is Jeremy's analysis and add some additional

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Speaker 2: reporting here. And one of the things the headline is

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Speaker 2: Hamasa's strategic gamble. You say, while President Trump enthusiastically welcomed

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Speaker 2: Hamasa's response to his Gaza plan, the White House and

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Speaker 2: Israel deal in deception. And one of the things that

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Speaker 2: you report on exclusively here is that those Arab countries

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Speaker 2: which were portrayed as being completely on board with this

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Speaker 2: quote unquote deal, they actually the version of the deal

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Speaker 2: that they saw went through some Israeli revisions before it

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Speaker 2: was actually announced. So can you break down some of

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Speaker 2: how all of that went and how those Arab coalition

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Speaker 2: partners are thinking about this?

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Speaker 5: Yeah, I mean, this is sort of an astonishing story, Crystal.

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Speaker 5: So what happened is over the past several weeks leading

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Speaker 5: up to Trump and netnyah Who taking the podium and

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Speaker 5: announcing this twenty point plan, Trump and his administration had

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Speaker 5: a series of meetings with Egypt, with Qatar, with Turkey,

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Speaker 5: with Pakistan, with Indonesia, with Saudi Arabia, with the United

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Speaker 5: Arab Emirates, and they were going over drafts of what

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Speaker 5: was originally going to be a twenty one point plan

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Speaker 5: from Donald Trump. And just to give an example, one

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Speaker 5: of the things that was in an original draft shown

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Speaker 5: to Arab countries was that there was going to be

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Speaker 5: no Israeli annexation of the West Bank. That was removed

437
00:20:35,359 --> 00:20:38,600
Speaker 5: then from the plan that was distributed by the White

438
00:20:38,600 --> 00:20:42,880
Speaker 5: House last Monday when Trump and netnyah Who took the podium.

439
00:20:43,080 --> 00:20:45,800
Speaker 5: But what I understand is that in the forty eight

440
00:20:45,840 --> 00:20:49,760
Speaker 5: hours leading up to Trump and Netnyaho coming out, Steve Whitkoff,

441
00:20:49,880 --> 00:20:53,119
Speaker 5: Trump's special envoy, Jared Kushner, the President's son in law,

442
00:20:53,320 --> 00:20:56,800
Speaker 5: and Ron Dermer, Netnyah, Who's top political advisor and the

443
00:20:56,800 --> 00:21:00,520
Speaker 5: Minister for Strategic Affairs, sat down and they started just

444
00:21:00,640 --> 00:21:04,800
Speaker 5: plucking out various terms or changing the wording that the

445
00:21:04,840 --> 00:21:07,879
Speaker 5: Arab and Muslim nations had signed off on, and then

446
00:21:07,920 --> 00:21:12,160
Speaker 5: they also created a whole new map for Israeli withdrawal

447
00:21:12,240 --> 00:21:16,119
Speaker 5: that would leave Israeli forces deep within Gaza even after

448
00:21:16,160 --> 00:21:20,080
Speaker 5: all of the captives were released. Trump did not inform

449
00:21:20,560 --> 00:21:23,640
Speaker 5: any of those Arab countries ahead of time that these

450
00:21:23,720 --> 00:21:26,520
Speaker 5: changes had been made, and so foreign ministers of all

451
00:21:26,560 --> 00:21:30,880
Speaker 5: of those countries watched Trump and net Yahoo and they said,

452
00:21:30,880 --> 00:21:33,639
Speaker 5: wait a minute, this is not the text that we

453
00:21:33,720 --> 00:21:37,199
Speaker 5: had been shown. But they didn't denounce Trump. They didn't say, oh,

454
00:21:37,240 --> 00:21:39,520
Speaker 5: this was a lie. What they did is they sort

455
00:21:39,560 --> 00:21:42,240
Speaker 5: of sat there and ate it, and they put out

456
00:21:42,240 --> 00:21:46,600
Speaker 5: statements giving general statements of support for Trump's initiative. But privately,

457
00:21:46,640 --> 00:21:50,520
Speaker 5: I'm told Crystal, they told Hamas negotiators, this was not

458
00:21:50,680 --> 00:21:53,280
Speaker 5: what we signed on for, but we can't do anything

459
00:21:53,320 --> 00:21:56,720
Speaker 5: about it right now. So they encouraged Hamas, and I

460
00:21:56,720 --> 00:21:58,760
Speaker 5: think more than encouraged. I think they were saying to them,

461
00:21:58,800 --> 00:22:00,680
Speaker 5: this is really the last chance to make a deal.

462
00:22:01,480 --> 00:22:04,600
Speaker 5: You cannot reject Trump's deal, no matter how disgusted you

463
00:22:04,640 --> 00:22:07,159
Speaker 5: may be with some of the terms. And so I

464
00:22:07,160 --> 00:22:10,080
Speaker 5: think what we see is Trump kind of saying he

465
00:22:10,160 --> 00:22:14,240
Speaker 5: accepts the offer that Hamas didn't exactly make, and Hamas saying,

466
00:22:14,320 --> 00:22:18,439
Speaker 5: we accept your offer that you didn't exactly make. And

467
00:22:18,480 --> 00:22:20,919
Speaker 5: so now it really does boil down to it. You know,

468
00:22:20,960 --> 00:22:22,520
Speaker 5: there was this other thing that happened, which is that

469
00:22:23,320 --> 00:22:27,320
Speaker 5: I think NETANYAHUU and Israel were stunned at how enthusiastic

470
00:22:27,359 --> 00:22:30,720
Speaker 5: Trump was when he you know, something crazy that happened.

471
00:22:30,760 --> 00:22:32,760
Speaker 5: I don't know if you guys caught this, but Trump

472
00:22:32,800 --> 00:22:35,639
Speaker 5: puts out his statement saying, great, you know, Hamas has

473
00:22:35,680 --> 00:22:37,760
Speaker 5: just given us a really good response. And then the

474
00:22:37,800 --> 00:22:43,800
Speaker 5: White House posted a translation of Hamas's entire statement in full,

475
00:22:44,359 --> 00:22:48,880
Speaker 5: including its characterization of what Israel is doing in Gaza

476
00:22:49,400 --> 00:22:53,360
Speaker 5: as a genocide, referring to Israeli forces as occupation troops.

477
00:22:53,480 --> 00:22:55,760
Speaker 5: So the White House posts this thing and they said

478
00:22:55,800 --> 00:22:58,440
Speaker 5: an important statement from Donald Trump. So if they put

479
00:22:58,440 --> 00:23:00,320
Speaker 5: that out and then there's all these accusations, well now

480
00:23:00,320 --> 00:23:02,639
Speaker 5: Trump is Hamas, because of course the Israeli's accused everyone

481
00:23:02,640 --> 00:23:04,840
Speaker 5: of being Hamas the White House then you know, it

482
00:23:05,119 --> 00:23:07,280
Speaker 5: was up for quite a while. They then deleted it.

483
00:23:07,560 --> 00:23:09,800
Speaker 5: But what was happening is that the Israelis are spinning

484
00:23:09,800 --> 00:23:12,280
Speaker 5: this saying there were no surprises here. Everything has been

485
00:23:12,320 --> 00:23:17,679
Speaker 5: fully coordinated. Axios, though Barack Revide reported that when Netnyahu

486
00:23:17,760 --> 00:23:20,040
Speaker 5: did speak to Trump, he said to Trump, you know,

487
00:23:20,160 --> 00:23:22,800
Speaker 5: this is a terrible deal and it's meaningless what Hamas

488
00:23:22,840 --> 00:23:25,520
Speaker 5: has said. And then Trump says to him, why are

489
00:23:25,520 --> 00:23:28,760
Speaker 5: you always so effing negative? That was the quote that

490
00:23:28,880 --> 00:23:32,040
Speaker 5: was in Axios talking to net Yaho. So I think

491
00:23:32,040 --> 00:23:33,920
Speaker 5: what we have here is it's it's something a little

492
00:23:33,960 --> 00:23:36,520
Speaker 5: bit more than these fake stories about oh there's trouble

493
00:23:36,520 --> 00:23:38,919
Speaker 5: between net Yahoo and Trump. I think Trump, for his

494
00:23:38,960 --> 00:23:42,080
Speaker 5: own reasons we've discussed on this show before, actually does

495
00:23:42,160 --> 00:23:47,040
Speaker 5: want this done. He sees profit, you know, motivations in Gaza.

496
00:23:47,400 --> 00:23:50,720
Speaker 5: He wants development there, and he wants to Nobel Peace Prize. So,

497
00:23:51,320 --> 00:23:54,240
Speaker 5: you know, typically what happens is that the US has

498
00:23:54,240 --> 00:23:57,800
Speaker 5: something resembling a kerfuffle between you know, the whether it

499
00:23:57,800 --> 00:23:59,720
Speaker 5: was Biden or Trump and net Yaho, and then they

500
00:23:59,720 --> 00:24:02,959
Speaker 5: get in line and then the genocide resumes. This time,

501
00:24:03,200 --> 00:24:06,359
Speaker 5: there are other dynamics at play, including Trump's relationship with

502
00:24:06,400 --> 00:24:09,199
Speaker 5: these Arab countries. Yes, this could be an elaborate setup.

503
00:24:09,960 --> 00:24:12,760
Speaker 5: It's certainly possible that they're going to try to trick

504
00:24:12,760 --> 00:24:15,399
Speaker 5: Hamas into giving all of the Israeli captives and then

505
00:24:15,440 --> 00:24:18,399
Speaker 5: resume the genocide. But that would cause an earthquake in

506
00:24:18,440 --> 00:24:21,560
Speaker 5: Trump's relationships with these Arab countries, and I think Trump

507
00:24:21,640 --> 00:24:24,320
Speaker 5: genuinely does want he and his cronies to make a

508
00:24:24,320 --> 00:24:26,440
Speaker 5: lot of money off of what he believes will come

509
00:24:26,480 --> 00:24:29,199
Speaker 5: next in Gaza. The wild card, though, is the Palestinians

510
00:24:29,240 --> 00:24:31,320
Speaker 5: are saying, we're not going to give up our weapons.

511
00:24:31,480 --> 00:24:33,679
Speaker 5: We're not going to agree to disarmament. That's not for

512
00:24:33,720 --> 00:24:36,639
Speaker 5: Hamas to decide, that's for the Palestinian people. So that

513
00:24:37,200 --> 00:24:39,479
Speaker 5: I think is going to be the real serious sticking

514
00:24:39,520 --> 00:24:42,240
Speaker 5: point this week to look for is the Israelis don't

515
00:24:42,280 --> 00:24:47,400
Speaker 5: want any conditions given up to retrieve their forty eight captives,

516
00:24:47,400 --> 00:24:51,040
Speaker 5: twenty living, twenty eight deceased, and Hamas is saying, we're

517
00:24:51,040 --> 00:24:54,320
Speaker 5: not going to link demilitarization of the Palestinian people to

518
00:24:54,400 --> 00:24:56,159
Speaker 5: any of this. We need to negotiate an end to

519
00:24:56,200 --> 00:24:57,160
Speaker 5: this war alone.

520
00:24:57,320 --> 00:24:59,399
Speaker 3: Yeah, and see, that is the sticking point where I

521
00:24:59,440 --> 00:25:01,880
Speaker 3: just can't to see resolution. But you seem a lot

522
00:25:01,920 --> 00:25:05,400
Speaker 3: more optimistic than me, Jeremy, because when I look at it,

523
00:25:05,400 --> 00:25:09,000
Speaker 3: it's very possible a hostage deal swaps, some sort of

524
00:25:09,000 --> 00:25:12,960
Speaker 3: temporary ceasefire seems totally within the realm of possibility. Can

525
00:25:13,000 --> 00:25:16,720
Speaker 3: you talk about how you said Hamas wants a Trump guarantee?

526
00:25:17,000 --> 00:25:19,639
Speaker 3: From my eyes, though, why would you want necessarily a

527
00:25:19,640 --> 00:25:21,480
Speaker 3: Trump guarantee when we were about to meet with the

528
00:25:21,480 --> 00:25:24,120
Speaker 3: Iranians and then we bomb them the next day. I mean,

529
00:25:24,119 --> 00:25:26,800
Speaker 3: that just seems sure. I mean, they have no position

530
00:25:26,920 --> 00:25:30,200
Speaker 3: necessarily to negotiate. But they have all those other Middle

531
00:25:30,200 --> 00:25:33,640
Speaker 3: Eastern countries around them, They have all of these disparate forces,

532
00:25:33,840 --> 00:25:35,760
Speaker 3: some which are acting on them saying, hey, as you

533
00:25:35,800 --> 00:25:40,040
Speaker 3: just said, you can't just surrender armed liberation or armed resistance.

534
00:25:39,840 --> 00:25:40,400
Speaker 1: As a cause.

535
00:25:40,440 --> 00:25:42,960
Speaker 3: How does that dynamic come into play here past the hostages?

536
00:25:43,600 --> 00:25:45,600
Speaker 5: I mean, this has been true from the beginning, where

537
00:25:45,640 --> 00:25:49,600
Speaker 5: the Palestatian negotiators understand that Trump doesn't keep his word,

538
00:25:49,640 --> 00:25:52,719
Speaker 5: that he's an erratic guy. So they're not, you know,

539
00:25:53,160 --> 00:25:55,359
Speaker 5: going into this blind. They understand what it is. But

540
00:25:55,359 --> 00:25:56,919
Speaker 5: at the end of the day, they'll say, and I

541
00:25:56,960 --> 00:25:59,760
Speaker 5: talk to them about this, what other choice do we have.

542
00:26:00,040 --> 00:26:02,720
Speaker 5: We have to get as many countries as possible to

543
00:26:03,200 --> 00:26:05,720
Speaker 5: encourage Trump to stay the course on this. We need

544
00:26:05,760 --> 00:26:09,040
Speaker 5: Trump's guarantees and they understand and this is part of

545
00:26:09,080 --> 00:26:10,640
Speaker 5: why they are not going to agree to any sort

546
00:26:10,640 --> 00:26:13,960
Speaker 5: of disarmament that at an instant Trump could shift gears

547
00:26:13,960 --> 00:26:16,920
Speaker 5: and next thing you know, Net Yahoo is massively bombing

548
00:26:16,960 --> 00:26:20,840
Speaker 5: Gaza again. I am not optimistic. I'm just pointing out

549
00:26:21,080 --> 00:26:23,439
Speaker 5: that there are some different dynamics at play. Because of

550
00:26:23,480 --> 00:26:27,000
Speaker 5: Trump's unique posture as the President of the United States

551
00:26:27,000 --> 00:26:29,960
Speaker 5: and the fact that his family has massive business investments

552
00:26:30,160 --> 00:26:33,080
Speaker 5: in Katar, Saudi Arabia, the United Arab Emirates, they have

553
00:26:33,119 --> 00:26:35,399
Speaker 5: a lot to gain from getting Net Nyahu to end

554
00:26:35,440 --> 00:26:39,879
Speaker 5: this war. From the Palestinian perspective, though, the way that

555
00:26:39,920 --> 00:26:42,879
Speaker 5: they approached this was to say, there are only a

556
00:26:42,920 --> 00:26:46,000
Speaker 5: handful of issues that Hamas has a mandate to negotiate.

557
00:26:46,400 --> 00:26:51,000
Speaker 5: Anything else must be negotiated among all Palestinian factions, and

558
00:26:51,040 --> 00:26:53,200
Speaker 5: I think that there's there's going to be a lot

559
00:26:53,240 --> 00:26:57,679
Speaker 5: of behind the scenes maneuvering. The Palestinian authority under Mahmudabas

560
00:26:57,960 --> 00:27:02,000
Speaker 5: is highly unpopular. Trump recently denied a visa to mah

561
00:27:02,119 --> 00:27:04,719
Speaker 5: Mudabas to come into the United States to speak at

562
00:27:04,720 --> 00:27:09,120
Speaker 5: the United Nations. Palestinians don't trust the Palestinian authority European

563
00:27:09,160 --> 00:27:11,760
Speaker 5: countries are trying to bolster it. So the question is

564
00:27:11,800 --> 00:27:14,240
Speaker 5: like what Palestinians are going to be in charge of

565
00:27:14,320 --> 00:27:16,359
Speaker 5: running Gaza and are they actually going to be in

566
00:27:16,480 --> 00:27:18,600
Speaker 5: charge or is it going to be the former Prime

567
00:27:18,640 --> 00:27:22,800
Speaker 5: Minister and unindicted war criminal Tony Blair that's presiding all

568
00:27:22,800 --> 00:27:25,240
Speaker 5: over this. This is going to be a huge boondoggle

569
00:27:25,280 --> 00:27:28,280
Speaker 5: if somehow Trump is able to move forward with these

570
00:27:28,320 --> 00:27:31,080
Speaker 5: so called development plans and a lot of his cronies

571
00:27:31,080 --> 00:27:32,600
Speaker 5: are going to make a lot of money, and those

572
00:27:32,640 --> 00:27:34,439
Speaker 5: Gulf states are going to make a lot of money.

573
00:27:34,560 --> 00:27:38,480
Speaker 5: So I'm saying that in real political terms, it's not

574
00:27:38,640 --> 00:27:41,520
Speaker 5: about the politics of this or the history of it.

575
00:27:42,000 --> 00:27:43,960
Speaker 5: The motivation from Trump, i think, is to try to

576
00:27:43,960 --> 00:27:46,320
Speaker 5: get the Nobel Prize and to try to set up

577
00:27:46,359 --> 00:27:50,040
Speaker 5: a situation where a lot of Westerners and Arab Golf

578
00:27:50,040 --> 00:27:52,320
Speaker 5: states make a lot of money off of Gaza.

579
00:27:52,040 --> 00:27:55,280
Speaker 2: Attempted money grab and Jeremy, what's your sense of is

580
00:27:55,320 --> 00:27:59,000
Speaker 2: there any schism between the political leadership of Hamas and

581
00:27:59,119 --> 00:28:01,880
Speaker 2: the battle field commanders on the ground in Gaza.

582
00:28:03,160 --> 00:28:05,560
Speaker 5: What's interesting is that part of what they had to

583
00:28:05,600 --> 00:28:09,960
Speaker 5: do to deliver this response to Trump is to distribute

584
00:28:10,160 --> 00:28:14,160
Speaker 5: drafts of this statement, and they did that among Palestinian factions,

585
00:28:14,400 --> 00:28:16,720
Speaker 5: and then they had to get it to the commanders

586
00:28:16,760 --> 00:28:19,640
Speaker 5: of the Casam brigades and Saya l kulds, the armed

587
00:28:19,640 --> 00:28:22,480
Speaker 5: forces that are holding the Israeli captives, and the political

588
00:28:22,560 --> 00:28:25,919
Speaker 5: leadership of Hamas on the ground. And my understanding was

589
00:28:25,920 --> 00:28:29,520
Speaker 5: that it went very quickly, that there were minor discussions

590
00:28:29,520 --> 00:28:32,840
Speaker 5: about language and questions that were asked, but that they

591
00:28:32,920 --> 00:28:35,320
Speaker 5: came to an agreement very swiftly. You know, the New

592
00:28:35,400 --> 00:28:39,440
Speaker 5: York Times, BBC other news outlets in recent days had reported, oh,

593
00:28:39,520 --> 00:28:42,000
Speaker 5: you know, the ground commanders are going to reject this thing.

594
00:28:42,040 --> 00:28:46,239
Speaker 5: They're hardliners. My sources, I think would tell me if

595
00:28:46,240 --> 00:28:49,600
Speaker 5: there were such divisions and the speed with which they

596
00:28:49,680 --> 00:28:52,200
Speaker 5: did this. Trump gave them an ultimatum on Friday, saying

597
00:28:52,200 --> 00:28:55,440
Speaker 5: they had until Sunday at six pm. They delivered their

598
00:28:55,480 --> 00:28:59,640
Speaker 5: response within hours of Trump making that three day window

599
00:28:59,680 --> 00:29:02,320
Speaker 5: for them. So no, I think there was debate of

600
00:29:02,360 --> 00:29:06,000
Speaker 5: a different nature within Hamas and Islamic Jihad, which was

601
00:29:06,920 --> 00:29:10,000
Speaker 5: do we reject this deal or do we try to

602
00:29:10,040 --> 00:29:12,200
Speaker 5: thread the needle. That was the real debate because a

603
00:29:12,240 --> 00:29:15,400
Speaker 5: lot of Palestinians read this document and say there's nothing

604
00:29:15,400 --> 00:29:18,720
Speaker 5: good in here for us, and a lot of suspicion.

605
00:29:18,720 --> 00:29:21,600
Speaker 5: It was a trap. The camp of people that prevailed

606
00:29:21,600 --> 00:29:23,880
Speaker 5: were the ones that said, we have to try to

607
00:29:23,920 --> 00:29:26,960
Speaker 5: think strategically, to go into it with an open mind,

608
00:29:27,040 --> 00:29:29,520
Speaker 5: to make ourselves appear to be the flexible party and

609
00:29:29,600 --> 00:29:32,960
Speaker 5: NETANYAHUU the obstructionists, and to appeal to Trump's ego and

610
00:29:33,000 --> 00:29:35,720
Speaker 5: to embrace the idea that we recognize and it's legitimate.

611
00:29:35,880 --> 00:29:37,600
Speaker 5: He's the only one that can end this war. And

612
00:29:38,000 --> 00:29:39,520
Speaker 5: that's what they did. I think they feel that they

613
00:29:39,560 --> 00:29:42,240
Speaker 5: gave the best response they could have, and now their

614
00:29:42,280 --> 00:29:45,880
Speaker 5: negotiators have arrived in Egypt. Khalil al Haya, the political

615
00:29:45,960 --> 00:29:48,960
Speaker 5: leader of Hamas. He made his first public appearance since

616
00:29:49,360 --> 00:29:53,200
Speaker 5: Israel tried to assassinate him in Doha, Qatar, on September ninth.

617
00:29:53,520 --> 00:29:56,320
Speaker 5: He gave a brief interview to an Arab TV network.

618
00:29:56,480 --> 00:29:59,000
Speaker 5: He didn't talk about the ceasefire processor of the agreement.

619
00:29:59,200 --> 00:30:01,960
Speaker 5: He talked about the the fact that Israel assassinated his

620
00:30:02,080 --> 00:30:04,920
Speaker 5: son in that bombing, and he said, you know, we're

621
00:30:04,920 --> 00:30:08,200
Speaker 5: not made of iron and stone. We grieve like everyone else,

622
00:30:08,640 --> 00:30:11,320
Speaker 5: but I see their lives as worth no more than

623
00:30:11,360 --> 00:30:13,640
Speaker 5: the lives of the other Palestinians who have died during

624
00:30:13,640 --> 00:30:17,040
Speaker 5: this genocide. So that's the tone that Khalil al Haya

625
00:30:17,200 --> 00:30:19,600
Speaker 5: is going into this with, having just lost his son,

626
00:30:19,960 --> 00:30:22,120
Speaker 5: having his wife injured in the bombing, his daughter in

627
00:30:22,160 --> 00:30:24,800
Speaker 5: law injured in the bombing, his grandchildren injured in the bombing.

628
00:30:25,000 --> 00:30:28,680
Speaker 5: That's the guy who's leading the negotiatingdirect negotiations now and

629
00:30:28,800 --> 00:30:31,440
Speaker 5: is going to be sitting effectively in a room next

630
00:30:31,440 --> 00:30:33,880
Speaker 5: to the Israeli negotiators who were going to do their

631
00:30:33,920 --> 00:30:36,320
Speaker 5: best to try to make sure the Palestinians get nothing

632
00:30:36,400 --> 00:30:40,080
Speaker 5: in return except their own prisoners freed from Israeli prisons

633
00:30:40,520 --> 00:30:43,360
Speaker 5: in return for all of their leverage, which is forty

634
00:30:43,400 --> 00:30:46,160
Speaker 5: eight Israeli captives, twenty living, twenty eight deceased.

635
00:30:48,760 --> 00:30:50,520
Speaker 3: Jeremy, while we have you, we did want to get

636
00:30:50,520 --> 00:30:54,120
Speaker 3: an update on the sod flotilla. We do have here

637
00:30:54,320 --> 00:30:57,560
Speaker 3: a video of an Italian journalist who was on board,

638
00:30:57,760 --> 00:31:00,560
Speaker 3: who talked about the treatment that many of the captives,

639
00:31:00,560 --> 00:31:05,880
Speaker 3: including Greta Thunberg, suffered after they were taken captive by

640
00:31:05,920 --> 00:31:06,560
Speaker 3: the Israelis.

641
00:31:06,760 --> 00:31:08,480
Speaker 1: Let's take a listen to that. We'll get your reaction.

642
00:31:08,800 --> 00:31:11,120
Speaker 6: Greta to Umberg, a brave woman was only twenty two

643
00:31:11,200 --> 00:31:14,280
Speaker 6: years old. She was umiated and wrapped in an Israeli

644
00:31:14,320 --> 00:31:17,960
Speaker 6: flag and exhibited like a trophy. I had a feeling

645
00:31:18,000 --> 00:31:20,720
Speaker 6: of being in a really barbaric place, and I really

646
00:31:20,760 --> 00:31:25,120
Speaker 6: hope that this barbarism might be over soon.

647
00:31:25,640 --> 00:31:28,440
Speaker 3: So that was an update there from the Italian journalist.

648
00:31:28,520 --> 00:31:30,760
Speaker 3: I know, Jeremy as well, that one of your own

649
00:31:30,880 --> 00:31:35,200
Speaker 3: journalists actually remains or was missing. I don't I believe

650
00:31:35,240 --> 00:31:37,160
Speaker 3: you don't have any update or status on it, So

651
00:31:37,240 --> 00:31:38,560
Speaker 3: can you just give us your reaction, as you know,

652
00:31:38,640 --> 00:31:41,360
Speaker 3: literally somebody with a direct connection here to the flotilla.

653
00:31:41,480 --> 00:31:43,960
Speaker 5: Yeah, I mean one of our editors, Alex Colston, was

654
00:31:44,000 --> 00:31:47,640
Speaker 5: on one of the ships and he was snatched along

655
00:31:47,680 --> 00:31:51,920
Speaker 5: with the others by Israeli forces. Days ago. We got

656
00:31:51,920 --> 00:31:55,080
Speaker 5: an initial update confirming that he had been taken to

657
00:31:55,120 --> 00:31:58,760
Speaker 5: the port of Ashtad in Israel, and then he was

658
00:31:59,400 --> 00:32:01,760
Speaker 5: were told he was moved to this prison where they're

659
00:32:01,760 --> 00:32:05,800
Speaker 5: also holding figures from the Hamas resistance that have been

660
00:32:05,840 --> 00:32:09,040
Speaker 5: taken by Israel. But the Israeli government has given us

661
00:32:09,080 --> 00:32:13,200
Speaker 5: no updates whatsoever on Alex's status and there are also

662
00:32:13,280 --> 00:32:15,840
Speaker 5: no updates on the status of a lot of others. Yes,

663
00:32:16,040 --> 00:32:18,680
Speaker 5: many of them have been released. They're coming out and

664
00:32:18,760 --> 00:32:24,400
Speaker 5: they're describing bedbug infested cells, forms of abuse and mistreatment.

665
00:32:24,920 --> 00:32:29,360
Speaker 5: They were also subjected to a visit by Itamar Ben Gavier,

666
00:32:29,440 --> 00:32:33,400
Speaker 5: the Interior Security Minister of Israel, who ran around saying

667
00:32:33,480 --> 00:32:36,400
Speaker 5: that they're all going to be treated like terrorists. The

668
00:32:36,400 --> 00:32:39,400
Speaker 5: way that Israel treats Palestinians who it puts in its

669
00:32:39,400 --> 00:32:43,080
Speaker 5: prisons is to beat them, degrade them, torture them, subject

670
00:32:43,080 --> 00:32:46,120
Speaker 5: them to other forms of abuse. We've heard some very

671
00:32:46,200 --> 00:32:50,440
Speaker 5: disturbing reports about how these flotilla activists were treated, but

672
00:32:50,480 --> 00:32:54,120
Speaker 5: we remain deeply concerned about the fate of one of

673
00:32:54,120 --> 00:32:56,800
Speaker 5: our editors, Alex Colston, and I just want to say

674
00:32:56,800 --> 00:32:58,520
Speaker 5: at the end of the day that while all of

675
00:32:58,640 --> 00:33:00,640
Speaker 5: us should be paying attention to how are treating these

676
00:33:00,640 --> 00:33:03,600
Speaker 5: international activists, the fact is that there are as many

677
00:33:03,600 --> 00:33:08,000
Speaker 5: as fifteen thousand Palestinians, including women and children, that remain

678
00:33:08,360 --> 00:33:12,640
Speaker 5: in these Israeli facilities, and Israel is an entity that

679
00:33:12,800 --> 00:33:17,880
Speaker 5: subjects children to military tribunal systems and denies them access

680
00:33:17,920 --> 00:33:22,520
Speaker 5: to lawyers. We've seen prisoners being killed extra judicially inside

681
00:33:22,520 --> 00:33:25,760
Speaker 5: of Israeli prisons. So while we should focus on the

682
00:33:25,800 --> 00:33:29,960
Speaker 5: fact that our colleague Alex his status is unknown and

683
00:33:30,040 --> 00:33:32,280
Speaker 5: many of these people seem to be subjected to abuse,

684
00:33:32,760 --> 00:33:37,080
Speaker 5: what Palestinians have endured and these Israeli facilities is unconscionable

685
00:33:37,680 --> 00:33:40,840
Speaker 5: and the world really should be focusing on that as

686
00:33:40,880 --> 00:33:42,280
Speaker 5: an issue as well. And I know many of the

687
00:33:42,280 --> 00:33:45,000
Speaker 5: flotilla activists have made that point themselves.

688
00:33:45,120 --> 00:33:47,840
Speaker 2: Yeah, of course. And you know, to your point there,

689
00:33:47,960 --> 00:33:51,280
Speaker 2: the peace deal from Trump actually contains a number of admissions,

690
00:33:51,320 --> 00:33:54,960
Speaker 2: including in the hostage exchange deal they talk about and

691
00:33:55,000 --> 00:33:57,080
Speaker 2: all of the women and children are going to be released,

692
00:33:57,320 --> 00:33:59,440
Speaker 2: which is you know, an admission that Israel is in

693
00:33:59,480 --> 00:34:03,840
Speaker 2: fact holding children hostage in their prison system, and then

694
00:34:03,960 --> 00:34:06,520
Speaker 2: also allowing the free flow of aid, which is another

695
00:34:06,560 --> 00:34:10,080
Speaker 2: admission that Israel is not allowing the free flow of aid,

696
00:34:10,120 --> 00:34:12,480
Speaker 2: which is something that they have denied vociferously.

697
00:34:12,920 --> 00:34:15,600
Speaker 5: Yeah, I mean those are very important points, Crystal. And

698
00:34:16,000 --> 00:34:18,520
Speaker 5: another thing in there is the formula is for each

699
00:34:18,719 --> 00:34:21,799
Speaker 5: body of a deceased Israeli they're going to hand over

700
00:34:22,080 --> 00:34:26,360
Speaker 5: fifteen bodies of Palestinians. Remember how Trump's been focusing on

701
00:34:26,400 --> 00:34:29,000
Speaker 5: who holds dead bodies? Why do they have dead bodies there?

702
00:34:29,600 --> 00:34:33,600
Speaker 5: Israel for decades has had a practice of holding the

703
00:34:33,640 --> 00:34:38,240
Speaker 5: corpses of dead Palestinians in freezers or in graves marked

704
00:34:38,239 --> 00:34:41,600
Speaker 5: only by numbers. They have hundreds of bodies of Palestinians,

705
00:34:41,600 --> 00:34:44,200
Speaker 5: some that have been there for decades without returning them

706
00:34:44,200 --> 00:34:47,239
Speaker 5: to their families. This is a matter of national policy

707
00:34:47,760 --> 00:34:52,040
Speaker 5: in Israel. So what we see happening is that every

708
00:34:52,080 --> 00:34:57,080
Speaker 5: allegation that is made by Israel against Palestinians, Israel is

709
00:34:57,120 --> 00:35:00,359
Speaker 5: doing that on an industrial scale. And and there are

710
00:35:00,400 --> 00:35:05,560
Speaker 5: some rather interesting assertions in Trump's plan that if you

711
00:35:06,239 --> 00:35:08,680
Speaker 5: just peel the layer back a little bit, you recognize

712
00:35:08,960 --> 00:35:13,960
Speaker 5: that even Trump realizes that what Israel is doing very

713
00:35:14,040 --> 00:35:18,440
Speaker 5: much can be categorized as genocide. And you know, in

714
00:35:18,480 --> 00:35:22,440
Speaker 5: some cases extra judicial torture. You're talking about children being

715
00:35:22,520 --> 00:35:26,080
Speaker 5: in prison, and it references that in this it's an admission,

716
00:35:26,160 --> 00:35:28,480
Speaker 5: even though it's just a technical detail, the fact that

717
00:35:28,520 --> 00:35:30,840
Speaker 5: they put it in there it means they have to

718
00:35:30,840 --> 00:35:33,040
Speaker 5: be accountable for having that knowledge.

719
00:35:33,239 --> 00:35:35,719
Speaker 2: And Jeremy, we also had some reporting here and people

720
00:35:35,760 --> 00:35:38,680
Speaker 2: are calling it the Barry Weiss buzzer beater from CBS

721
00:35:38,719 --> 00:35:42,960
Speaker 2: News about those initial attacks on the flotilla. Not that

722
00:35:43,000 --> 00:35:44,799
Speaker 2: this will come as any sort of a surprise, but

723
00:35:44,840 --> 00:35:46,520
Speaker 2: this is a ten guys, we can put this up

724
00:35:46,560 --> 00:35:51,160
Speaker 2: on the screen. They did learn that Netnyahu himself directly

725
00:35:51,200 --> 00:35:56,000
Speaker 2: approved those military operations against two of the flotilla vessels

726
00:35:56,080 --> 00:35:59,759
Speaker 2: early last month. The two American intelligence officials briefed on

727
00:35:59,800 --> 00:36:02,600
Speaker 2: the mat told CBS News Israeli forces on September eighth

728
00:36:02,600 --> 00:36:06,399
Speaker 2: and ninth launched drones from a submarine dropped incendiary devices

729
00:36:06,440 --> 00:36:10,480
Speaker 2: onto those boats that were moored outside a Tunisian port.

730
00:36:11,440 --> 00:36:14,239
Speaker 2: You know, I know with Israel, we just like these

731
00:36:14,239 --> 00:36:16,120
Speaker 2: things happen and it's just like, ah, it's just what

732
00:36:16,160 --> 00:36:17,840
Speaker 2: they do, sort of like you know, all sorts of

733
00:36:17,840 --> 00:36:20,120
Speaker 2: insanity that Trump does that just you know, no other

734
00:36:20,160 --> 00:36:22,640
Speaker 2: present could get away with. But just speak a little

735
00:36:22,640 --> 00:36:25,560
Speaker 2: bit to how extraordinary this is, how wild it is,

736
00:36:25,640 --> 00:36:28,879
Speaker 2: what rogue kind of lawless behavior this is from our

737
00:36:29,000 --> 00:36:30,120
Speaker 2: great ally Israel.

738
00:36:30,440 --> 00:36:33,640
Speaker 5: Yeah, and remember that Israel also has a history of

739
00:36:33,719 --> 00:36:37,279
Speaker 5: killing people on these flotillas. And this isn't new. I mean,

740
00:36:37,280 --> 00:36:40,279
Speaker 5: this goes back in twenty ten. You had the Mavi

741
00:36:40,440 --> 00:36:43,759
Speaker 5: Marmara where Israeli special forces raided and they killed a

742
00:36:43,880 --> 00:36:48,400
Speaker 5: number of international activists on a flotilla. And it's important

743
00:36:48,440 --> 00:36:51,240
Speaker 5: to remember the context of this. Who are the people

744
00:36:51,239 --> 00:36:53,200
Speaker 5: on the flotilla and what are they doing. It includes

745
00:36:53,480 --> 00:36:56,400
Speaker 5: you know, lawmakers from countries around the world, you know

746
00:36:56,480 --> 00:37:01,680
Speaker 5: former ministers and governments, journalists, medical workers, activists, and they're

747
00:37:01,719 --> 00:37:05,600
Speaker 5: trying to break an illegal blockade, to bring infant formula,

748
00:37:05,880 --> 00:37:09,080
Speaker 5: to bring food, to bring other humanitarian goods. And Israel

749
00:37:09,239 --> 00:37:13,600
Speaker 5: uses high tech submarines to penetrate the waters of Tunisia,

750
00:37:13,640 --> 00:37:16,200
Speaker 5: to launch a drone to try to set the ships

751
00:37:16,239 --> 00:37:19,319
Speaker 5: on fire, to try to prevent these people from going

752
00:37:19,360 --> 00:37:22,160
Speaker 5: and breaking their illegal blockade so that their forced starvation

753
00:37:22,280 --> 00:37:25,240
Speaker 5: campaign can continue on. This is the kind of entity

754
00:37:25,280 --> 00:37:27,880
Speaker 5: that the world is dealing with. Most people's eyes are

755
00:37:27,920 --> 00:37:31,799
Speaker 5: open right now and they see clearly what Israel is,

756
00:37:32,000 --> 00:37:36,280
Speaker 5: especially under Benjamin NETANYAHUO. And the question is whether Trump's

757
00:37:36,280 --> 00:37:40,279
Speaker 5: interests are going to align with this massive shift in

758
00:37:40,360 --> 00:37:44,360
Speaker 5: public perception of what Israel is. The real question is

759
00:37:44,400 --> 00:37:47,719
Speaker 5: if Donald Trump's business and ego interests are going to

760
00:37:47,800 --> 00:37:50,680
Speaker 5: align with what clearly is a world that wants Israel

761
00:37:50,760 --> 00:37:54,720
Speaker 5: to stop committing genocide and stop acting as a pariah

762
00:37:54,840 --> 00:37:56,760
Speaker 5: state on the world stage.

763
00:37:57,120 --> 00:37:57,680
Speaker 1: Very possible.

764
00:37:57,719 --> 00:37:59,360
Speaker 3: We do have a bit of information here, maybe we

765
00:37:59,400 --> 00:38:01,960
Speaker 3: can have this post production these Reelly Foreign Ministry has

766
00:38:02,000 --> 00:38:04,879
Speaker 3: just released this one hundred and seventy one additional provocateurs

767
00:38:04,880 --> 00:38:08,479
Speaker 3: from the Hamas flotilla, including Greta Tunberg, were deported today

768
00:38:08,520 --> 00:38:12,320
Speaker 3: from Israel to Greece and Slovakia. Deporties are citizens and

769
00:38:12,360 --> 00:38:15,360
Speaker 3: they list the various countries. They say quote all the

770
00:38:15,440 --> 00:38:18,120
Speaker 3: legal rights of the participants in this pr stunt were

771
00:38:18,200 --> 00:38:21,080
Speaker 3: and will continue to be fully upheld. The lies they

772
00:38:21,080 --> 00:38:24,480
Speaker 3: are spreading are part of their pre planned fake news campaign,

773
00:38:24,600 --> 00:38:27,520
Speaker 3: so that fits largely what we've seen. Jeremy I did

774
00:38:27,560 --> 00:38:30,400
Speaker 3: note that they call it the Hamas Sumud flotilla, but

775
00:38:30,400 --> 00:38:32,200
Speaker 3: that's kind of what they've been saying from the beginning.

776
00:38:33,360 --> 00:38:36,520
Speaker 5: Yeah, and again remember that this is accusation number one

777
00:38:36,560 --> 00:38:39,640
Speaker 5: that Israel always makes against anyone that dares to be

778
00:38:39,800 --> 00:38:43,680
Speaker 5: a doctor or a or a medical worker, or an

779
00:38:43,760 --> 00:38:47,560
Speaker 5: activist or a journalists. It's their Hamas. So you know,

780
00:38:47,920 --> 00:38:50,319
Speaker 5: Israel has used that so much that it just is

781
00:38:50,480 --> 00:38:54,240
Speaker 5: void of any meaning. But the fact is that Israel

782
00:38:55,000 --> 00:38:57,799
Speaker 5: violently took custody of activists who were trying to break

783
00:38:57,840 --> 00:39:00,400
Speaker 5: their illegal siege and is trying to cover it up

784
00:39:00,440 --> 00:39:03,120
Speaker 5: by just bombarding the space with its own lies. It's

785
00:39:03,120 --> 00:39:05,080
Speaker 5: a pattern we've seen for the past two years, in

786
00:39:05,080 --> 00:39:06,160
Speaker 5: fact for many decades.

787
00:39:06,280 --> 00:39:09,839
Speaker 3: All right, well, we will continue to monitor the drop site,

788
00:39:09,880 --> 00:39:12,239
Speaker 3: reporter Alex, and we hope for a safe return.

789
00:39:12,320 --> 00:39:13,799
Speaker 1: So thank you very much for joining us, Jeremy. We

790
00:39:13,800 --> 00:39:14,879
Speaker 1: appreciate you analysis.

791
00:39:15,040 --> 00:39:15,360
Speaker 5: Thank you.

792
00:39:18,520 --> 00:39:21,200
Speaker 2: So, we got a bunch of legal updates for you.

793
00:39:21,239 --> 00:39:24,040
Speaker 2: These were late breaking last night with regard to Trump's

794
00:39:24,040 --> 00:39:27,920
Speaker 2: attempt to send the National Guard into Portland, Oregon. In particular,

795
00:39:27,960 --> 00:39:30,439
Speaker 2: he is also trying to federalize National Guard to send

796
00:39:30,520 --> 00:39:32,600
Speaker 2: into Chicago, Illinois'll get.

797
00:39:32,440 --> 00:39:33,520
Speaker 4: To that in a moment.

798
00:39:33,680 --> 00:39:36,560
Speaker 2: So the TLDR here is that you had a Trump

799
00:39:36,560 --> 00:39:40,320
Speaker 2: appointed judge who said, no, you can't federalize Oregon's National

800
00:39:40,360 --> 00:39:42,279
Speaker 2: Guard over their objections and send them in.

801
00:39:42,280 --> 00:39:44,279
Speaker 4: I'm issuing a temporary restraining order.

802
00:39:44,960 --> 00:39:47,200
Speaker 2: Then Trump said, okay, well, since we can't send in

803
00:39:47,280 --> 00:39:50,960
Speaker 2: the Oregon National Guard, We've already federalized the California National Guard.

804
00:39:51,040 --> 00:39:54,120
Speaker 2: We'll just send some of them in. So this judge

805
00:39:54,120 --> 00:39:57,120
Speaker 2: had an emergency hearing last night and said no, you

806
00:39:57,160 --> 00:40:00,360
Speaker 2: cannot send any National Guard, whether it's from organ Alfornia.

807
00:40:00,480 --> 00:40:03,920
Speaker 2: Texas has also been floated, you cannot send the National

808
00:40:03,960 --> 00:40:08,359
Speaker 2: Guard into this state. I'm issuing a temporary restraining order

809
00:40:08,400 --> 00:40:11,120
Speaker 2: while the process plays out and the case is decided

810
00:40:11,120 --> 00:40:14,600
Speaker 2: on the merits. California's Attorney General waded and sort of

811
00:40:14,640 --> 00:40:17,799
Speaker 2: explained the legal process yesterday evening, let's go ahead and

812
00:40:17,800 --> 00:40:18,440
Speaker 2: take a listen to that.

813
00:40:18,840 --> 00:40:22,160
Speaker 7: Hey, judge had already said yesterday that the conditions on

814
00:40:22,200 --> 00:40:26,680
Speaker 7: the ground absolutely do not justify the federalization of National Guard.

815
00:40:26,719 --> 00:40:30,359
Speaker 7: They don't justify the federalization of Oregon National Guard. And

816
00:40:30,880 --> 00:40:38,560
Speaker 7: so the federal government, in its ingenious thinking, said, well,

817
00:40:39,320 --> 00:40:41,960
Speaker 7: her order though it said there were no conditions to

818
00:40:42,040 --> 00:40:46,280
Speaker 7: bring the National Guard, federalized National Guard to Oregon, applied

819
00:40:46,280 --> 00:40:49,600
Speaker 7: to the Oregon National Guard how about we bring in

820
00:40:49,840 --> 00:40:55,360
Speaker 7: California National Guard work? And she was completely miffed. I

821
00:40:55,600 --> 00:40:58,759
Speaker 7: just listened in on entire hearing. First of all, thank

822
00:40:58,760 --> 00:41:01,200
Speaker 7: you to my incredible team Dole teams in Oregon and Portland.

823
00:41:01,239 --> 00:41:04,160
Speaker 7: There's a team effort, folks working overtime. Obviously, today's a

824
00:41:04,200 --> 00:41:07,480
Speaker 7: Sunday and Marchest needs to be protected every day, and

825
00:41:07,480 --> 00:41:08,680
Speaker 7: the rule of law does as well.

826
00:41:09,640 --> 00:41:11,640
Speaker 5: And she was really miffed.

827
00:41:11,640 --> 00:41:13,960
Speaker 7: Her first set of questions of the federal government, where

828
00:41:14,160 --> 00:41:19,360
Speaker 7: how does this not violate my order from yesterday? And

829
00:41:19,400 --> 00:41:22,040
Speaker 7: I think she's right, you know that this sort of

830
00:41:22,400 --> 00:41:25,160
Speaker 7: super technical approach to try to bring national guard in

831
00:41:25,200 --> 00:41:32,400
Speaker 7: that's from another state. And just minutes before the hearing commenced,

832
00:41:32,480 --> 00:41:35,600
Speaker 7: we got word through a memorandum from the Secretary of

833
00:41:35,600 --> 00:41:40,120
Speaker 7: Hegseth that the Texas National Guard has been federalized, two

834
00:41:40,160 --> 00:41:42,440
Speaker 7: thousand of them, with four hundred of them being deployed

835
00:41:42,480 --> 00:41:47,920
Speaker 7: to both Portland and in Chicago. So it is clear

836
00:41:48,120 --> 00:41:51,920
Speaker 7: that it's a sort of whack a mole approach from

837
00:41:51,920 --> 00:41:53,879
Speaker 7: the federal government. You stop the Oregon National Guard from

838
00:41:53,880 --> 00:41:56,000
Speaker 7: being federalized, We'll bring up the California National Guard. You

839
00:41:56,000 --> 00:41:58,040
Speaker 7: stop the California National Guard for being brought up north.

840
00:41:58,040 --> 00:42:00,319
Speaker 7: We'll bring in the Texas National Guard. You stop them,

841
00:42:00,640 --> 00:42:03,319
Speaker 7: we got you know who's got next? You know, we

842
00:42:03,400 --> 00:42:04,799
Speaker 7: got a bunch of others we can bring in. And

843
00:42:04,840 --> 00:42:09,000
Speaker 7: so we asked her, the judge to issue a broad

844
00:42:09,280 --> 00:42:14,040
Speaker 7: order that says that applies to every national Guard in

845
00:42:14,080 --> 00:42:16,680
Speaker 7: every state and the District of Columbia, and that none

846
00:42:16,719 --> 00:42:22,240
Speaker 7: of them can be deployed community federalized and deployed to Oregon.

847
00:42:22,440 --> 00:42:25,799
Speaker 7: And she issued that order from the bench. She's going

848
00:42:25,840 --> 00:42:27,239
Speaker 7: to back it up with a written order as well.

849
00:42:27,280 --> 00:42:29,840
Speaker 7: But she was concerned based on the behavior of the

850
00:42:29,840 --> 00:42:32,520
Speaker 7: federal government about what the scope of her order should

851
00:42:32,520 --> 00:42:37,080
Speaker 7: be and believed and I agree that a broad order

852
00:42:37,880 --> 00:42:39,440
Speaker 7: that is broad in scope is appropriate.

853
00:42:39,840 --> 00:42:42,280
Speaker 2: So that's the nuts and bolts of what happened here.

854
00:42:42,960 --> 00:42:45,040
Speaker 2: I did go and look at the judge's original orders

855
00:42:45,080 --> 00:42:47,200
Speaker 2: are because you know, there's a lot of talk about Portland,

856
00:42:47,360 --> 00:42:49,759
Speaker 2: this insurrection, blah blah blah, and so okay, what's the

857
00:42:49,800 --> 00:42:51,520
Speaker 2: reality of what's been going on here? And this is

858
00:42:51,520 --> 00:42:54,320
Speaker 2: all focused around this one ice facility in the city

859
00:42:54,360 --> 00:42:59,040
Speaker 2: of Portland, and even what the government claimed in order

860
00:42:59,080 --> 00:43:03,000
Speaker 2: to justify federalizing the National Guard, which is an extraordinary

861
00:43:03,040 --> 00:43:05,239
Speaker 2: action which requires something on the level of like a

862
00:43:05,280 --> 00:43:08,239
Speaker 2: rebellion or an insurrection, the most they could point to

863
00:43:08,640 --> 00:43:11,799
Speaker 2: were a few incidents from like June and July where

864
00:43:11,800 --> 00:43:15,440
Speaker 2: he had protesters shining lights in people's eyes, those sorts

865
00:43:15,440 --> 00:43:19,239
Speaker 2: of things, And in recent weeks leading up to the

866
00:43:19,280 --> 00:43:22,600
Speaker 2: federalization of the National Guard, they said that the typical

867
00:43:22,719 --> 00:43:27,279
Speaker 2: nightlife in downtown Portland required more law enforcement resources than

868
00:43:27,280 --> 00:43:29,359
Speaker 2: what was happening outside of this ice facility you were

869
00:43:29,360 --> 00:43:32,640
Speaker 2: talking about, you know, eight to twenty protesters who would

870
00:43:32,640 --> 00:43:34,960
Speaker 2: be there just sort of like sitting around in lawn chairs.

871
00:43:35,280 --> 00:43:38,160
Speaker 2: And so that's why she said that this, you know,

872
00:43:38,280 --> 00:43:42,040
Speaker 2: even with granting a lot of latitude to the federal government,

873
00:43:42,400 --> 00:43:45,840
Speaker 2: that they were likely the Oregon was likely to succeed

874
00:43:46,080 --> 00:43:49,840
Speaker 2: in their case because there was nothing approaching insurrection or

875
00:43:49,880 --> 00:43:52,239
Speaker 2: rebellion that even the government could point to that was

876
00:43:52,239 --> 00:43:52,960
Speaker 2: happening here.

877
00:43:52,800 --> 00:43:55,880
Speaker 3: The interesting line one of my friends come through the decision.

878
00:43:55,920 --> 00:43:57,799
Speaker 3: He's a legal analyst, and he flagged this line from

879
00:43:57,840 --> 00:43:58,560
Speaker 3: the judges ruling.

880
00:43:58,600 --> 00:43:58,880
Speaker 1: Quote.

881
00:43:58,920 --> 00:44:01,960
Speaker 3: On the night September twenty, twenty twenty five, national Guard

882
00:44:02,040 --> 00:44:05,799
Speaker 3: or mobilization was announced, the size of protests increased substantially,

883
00:44:05,840 --> 00:44:08,480
Speaker 3: ballooning to around two hundred, with a second protest at

884
00:44:08,520 --> 00:44:11,480
Speaker 3: a different location, including a quote few hundred. Moreover, this

885
00:44:11,600 --> 00:44:14,440
Speaker 3: quote notes that in Los Angeles, the National Guard mobilizations

886
00:44:14,520 --> 00:44:18,120
Speaker 3: quote inflame protests spawned unrest at new locations and required

887
00:44:18,160 --> 00:44:21,520
Speaker 3: additional resources from California Highway Patrol. I thought that was

888
00:44:21,560 --> 00:44:24,840
Speaker 3: actually kind of an interesting flag from the judges ruling

889
00:44:24,880 --> 00:44:28,760
Speaker 3: about the practicality about what they're claiming to their claiming

890
00:44:28,800 --> 00:44:32,520
Speaker 3: to quash. And yes, I also have been honestly mystified

891
00:44:32,520 --> 00:44:36,360
Speaker 3: at where Portland came from, because I mean, Chicago made

892
00:44:36,400 --> 00:44:39,520
Speaker 3: sense in the Trump narrative right about prime. I mean, look,

893
00:44:39,520 --> 00:44:41,439
Speaker 3: no one's going to deny that Chicago has a huge

894
00:44:41,440 --> 00:44:45,839
Speaker 3: crime problem, or even in respect to Washington, DC, they'd

895
00:44:45,840 --> 00:44:49,320
Speaker 3: also talked about Memphis. But Portland honestly came out of nowhere,

896
00:44:49,560 --> 00:44:51,520
Speaker 3: and so I had to do some digging.

897
00:44:51,680 --> 00:44:52,879
Speaker 1: It seems to me that.

898
00:44:52,880 --> 00:44:56,239
Speaker 3: Quite a lot of this is retcon revenge for twenty

899
00:44:56,320 --> 00:45:00,400
Speaker 3: seventeen twenty twenty, which I mean to be fair, Portland

900
00:45:00,480 --> 00:45:03,719
Speaker 3: was genuinely out of control under the first Trump administration.

901
00:45:03,800 --> 00:45:07,160
Speaker 3: There were huge ice protests. You'll remember there was there

902
00:45:07,239 --> 00:45:10,680
Speaker 3: was like some conflict or my memory is escaping me,

903
00:45:10,719 --> 00:45:13,319
Speaker 3: and I forget exactly who the mayor was. This was

904
00:45:13,360 --> 00:45:16,160
Speaker 3: like a big thing with Antifa and there were nightly

905
00:45:16,640 --> 00:45:19,680
Speaker 3: protests and then their BLM with Portland was insane. And

906
00:45:19,719 --> 00:45:22,440
Speaker 3: so anyway, from what I have been able to tell,

907
00:45:22,640 --> 00:45:27,600
Speaker 3: most of this is revenge on Portland for twenty seventeen

908
00:45:27,640 --> 00:45:30,560
Speaker 3: to two years and twenty. Yeah, and so I think

909
00:45:30,560 --> 00:45:33,000
Speaker 3: that's kind of the context through which I have been

910
00:45:33,040 --> 00:45:34,920
Speaker 3: able to see this, because it's like you said, I

911
00:45:34,960 --> 00:45:36,839
Speaker 3: looked at the protest, I was like, okay, I mean

912
00:45:37,040 --> 00:45:41,320
Speaker 3: is protests. The administration's argument is that the Portland police

913
00:45:41,640 --> 00:45:45,160
Speaker 3: are refusing to do any backup of ICE, which I mean,

914
00:45:45,200 --> 00:45:47,400
Speaker 3: I guess is technically within their rights, right, I mean,

915
00:45:47,440 --> 00:45:49,440
Speaker 3: if you have a city and a police department. I

916
00:45:49,440 --> 00:45:50,959
Speaker 3: don't know, I don't really know how it all works

917
00:45:51,040 --> 00:45:53,400
Speaker 3: in terms of whether you have like an obligation to

918
00:45:53,440 --> 00:45:56,480
Speaker 3: back up federal law enforcement if that's what the police

919
00:45:56,560 --> 00:45:58,800
Speaker 3: chief and the mayor are telling you not to do. Whatever,

920
00:45:58,800 --> 00:46:02,520
Speaker 3: there's civilian control, but that seems to be the justification

921
00:46:02,800 --> 00:46:05,799
Speaker 3: for some three hundred National guardsmen. All of it is

922
00:46:05,840 --> 00:46:08,840
Speaker 3: really centered, like you said, around this ICE facility. But

923
00:46:08,920 --> 00:46:10,880
Speaker 3: from what I could see, there was not a big

924
00:46:10,960 --> 00:46:13,480
Speaker 3: protest around this, And if you look at it in

925
00:46:13,520 --> 00:46:16,520
Speaker 3: the context of twenty seventeen to twenty twenty, it starts

926
00:46:16,520 --> 00:46:17,399
Speaker 3: to make a lot more sense.

927
00:46:17,480 --> 00:46:19,920
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, I just looked at it as Portland

928
00:46:19,960 --> 00:46:22,759
Speaker 2: as kind of Portland and Seattle were most strongly associated

929
00:46:22,760 --> 00:46:24,800
Speaker 2: with quote unquote Antifa and since.

930
00:46:24,640 --> 00:46:27,160
Speaker 3: They're doing this, it's a lair point. I mean, it

931
00:46:27,280 --> 00:46:29,640
Speaker 3: was like it was crazy. Remember Seattle had chopped or

932
00:46:29,680 --> 00:46:30,080
Speaker 3: what but not.

933
00:46:30,600 --> 00:46:32,399
Speaker 2: But that's what I'm saying, Like, in terms of where

934
00:46:32,440 --> 00:46:35,520
Speaker 2: this came from, none of it has to make sense, right,

935
00:46:35,560 --> 00:46:38,800
Speaker 2: They'll just use any excuse. And so since they're making

936
00:46:38,840 --> 00:46:43,280
Speaker 2: this big Antifa push and there's this association with Portland

937
00:46:43,280 --> 00:46:45,920
Speaker 2: and Antifa, I think that's where it came from. But

938
00:46:46,000 --> 00:46:49,600
Speaker 2: I actually have the piece from the judge's decision, which

939
00:46:49,600 --> 00:46:52,319
Speaker 2: again this is a temporary restraining order. What they had

940
00:46:52,360 --> 00:46:55,440
Speaker 2: to find is that Oregon is likely to succeed on

941
00:46:55,520 --> 00:46:57,799
Speaker 2: the merits. But this will, you know, continue through the

942
00:46:57,800 --> 00:46:59,879
Speaker 2: court system. There will be a final decision here. Again

943
00:47:00,040 --> 00:47:01,960
Speaker 2: worth noting, this is a Trump judge, This isn't some

944
00:47:02,160 --> 00:47:05,640
Speaker 2: lib And in California, what happened is the initial federal

945
00:47:05,680 --> 00:47:08,520
Speaker 2: district judge ruled on newsom side, and then when it

946
00:47:08,600 --> 00:47:11,320
Speaker 2: went to the appeals court, they ruled against Newsom.

947
00:47:11,560 --> 00:47:12,360
Speaker 4: This judge went.

948
00:47:12,239 --> 00:47:14,880
Speaker 2: Out of her way to separate this case from what

949
00:47:14,920 --> 00:47:17,600
Speaker 2: was happening in California, and I think that is fair, Liza.

950
00:47:17,640 --> 00:47:20,799
Speaker 2: I disagree with the appeals court decision there, but there

951
00:47:20,840 --> 00:47:23,120
Speaker 2: were genuine like there was stuff happening. We saw the

952
00:47:23,120 --> 00:47:26,560
Speaker 2: cars on fire, like there were protests, there were arrests

953
00:47:26,600 --> 00:47:28,880
Speaker 2: being made, there were violent incidents, et cetera. Do I

954
00:47:28,920 --> 00:47:31,640
Speaker 2: think any of that came in close to justifying federalizing

955
00:47:31,680 --> 00:47:35,120
Speaker 2: the National Guard. No, but that was a different, a

956
00:47:35,200 --> 00:47:38,720
Speaker 2: different beast entirely than these like eight to twenty people

957
00:47:39,040 --> 00:47:41,680
Speaker 2: who were sitting in lawn chairs outside of an ice facility.

958
00:47:41,719 --> 00:47:43,400
Speaker 2: Well within their rights, by the way, you're allowed to

959
00:47:43,400 --> 00:47:47,640
Speaker 2: protest the federal government, and so I within this ruling

960
00:47:47,719 --> 00:47:50,919
Speaker 2: from the judge, she cites what the government was even

961
00:47:51,080 --> 00:47:54,799
Speaker 2: using to claim the power to federalize the National Guard.

962
00:47:54,880 --> 00:47:57,400
Speaker 2: And two of the things were just like, well, things

963
00:47:57,440 --> 00:47:59,399
Speaker 2: happen in other parts of the country, and they could

964
00:47:59,400 --> 00:48:02,399
Speaker 2: happen here, or you know, we have yes it's small now,

965
00:48:02,440 --> 00:48:04,560
Speaker 2: but maybe in the future something that could happen. So

966
00:48:04,600 --> 00:48:05,640
Speaker 2: we got to be there just a case.

967
00:48:05,680 --> 00:48:06,600
Speaker 4: And she's like, you can't.

968
00:48:06,840 --> 00:48:09,120
Speaker 2: You can't do this just based on like your idea

969
00:48:09,160 --> 00:48:11,880
Speaker 2: of something that might happen in the future. The specific

970
00:48:11,920 --> 00:48:15,959
Speaker 2: incidents they point to, she says. Defendants Declarence describe only

971
00:48:16,000 --> 00:48:18,920
Speaker 2: four incidents. A protesters clashing with federal officers in the

972
00:48:18,920 --> 00:48:23,160
Speaker 2: month of September, preceding the federalization order on September first, ninth, twelfth,

973
00:48:23,160 --> 00:48:26,680
Speaker 2: and without further specification. The second week of September. First

974
00:48:26,760 --> 00:48:31,120
Speaker 2: involved protesters setting up a makeshift guillotine to intimidate federal officials.

975
00:48:31,239 --> 00:48:33,960
Speaker 2: That seems legal to me anyway. The second involved four

976
00:48:34,000 --> 00:48:37,520
Speaker 2: people shining overpowered flashlights in the eyes of drivers, third

977
00:48:37,560 --> 00:48:40,920
Speaker 2: involves someone posting a photograph of an unmarked ice vehicle online,

978
00:48:40,920 --> 00:48:44,040
Speaker 2: and the last involved additional drivers having flashlights shown in

979
00:48:44,080 --> 00:48:47,359
Speaker 2: their eyes. So that's the month of That's the only

980
00:48:47,400 --> 00:48:49,719
Speaker 2: thing that could even point to happening in the month

981
00:48:49,760 --> 00:48:52,120
Speaker 2: of September. I think any reasonable person would look at

982
00:48:52,120 --> 00:48:54,759
Speaker 2: that and be like, you probably don't need the National.

983
00:48:54,440 --> 00:48:55,239
Speaker 4: Guard to deal with that.

984
00:48:55,600 --> 00:48:57,160
Speaker 2: But all of that being said, let's go ahead and

985
00:48:57,200 --> 00:49:00,520
Speaker 2: take a listen to how Trump is characterizing what is

986
00:49:00,560 --> 00:49:03,840
Speaker 2: going on in Portland, which apparently bears no relation to

987
00:49:04,000 --> 00:49:08,879
Speaker 2: what reality was prior to, you know, to their extraordinary

988
00:49:09,640 --> 00:49:13,160
Speaker 2: sort of uptick in federal presence there. This is the

989
00:49:13,200 --> 00:49:14,319
Speaker 2: first element in this block eye.

990
00:49:14,560 --> 00:49:15,319
Speaker 4: Let's go and play it.

991
00:49:15,680 --> 00:49:18,400
Speaker 5: We're going to look at that. It was amazing Portland

992
00:49:18,480 --> 00:49:22,240
Speaker 5: is burning to the ground. It's insurrection to so all.

993
00:49:22,160 --> 00:49:25,839
Speaker 8: Over the place it's Antifa, and yet the politicians who

994
00:49:25,840 --> 00:49:26,600
Speaker 8: are petrified.

995
00:49:26,760 --> 00:49:29,400
Speaker 2: Look, the politicians are freak for their lives.

996
00:49:29,400 --> 00:49:30,959
Speaker 6: That's the only reason that.

997
00:49:30,880 --> 00:49:32,680
Speaker 2: They say like there's nothing happening.

998
00:49:33,000 --> 00:49:33,839
Speaker 5: And you've seen it.

999
00:49:34,320 --> 00:49:37,160
Speaker 2: The place is burning down, and they pretend like there's

1000
00:49:37,160 --> 00:49:38,000
Speaker 2: nothing happening.

1001
00:49:38,280 --> 00:49:40,000
Speaker 5: So we'll take a look at the order. We haven't

1002
00:49:40,000 --> 00:49:41,600
Speaker 5: seen the order yet.

1003
00:49:41,480 --> 00:49:43,200
Speaker 2: So I don't know what he saw in Fox News

1004
00:49:43,239 --> 00:49:46,120
Speaker 2: or whatever or just invented or was told by Stephen Miller,

1005
00:49:46,160 --> 00:49:48,200
Speaker 2: but in his view, the place is burning to the ground.

1006
00:49:48,200 --> 00:49:53,160
Speaker 2: He called it war ravaged Portland, completely absurd. And so anyway,

1007
00:49:53,200 --> 00:49:56,040
Speaker 2: that's where we are in terms of the legal system.

1008
00:49:56,280 --> 00:49:57,719
Speaker 4: We can also go ahead and play that.

1009
00:49:57,920 --> 00:50:02,160
Speaker 2: In Chicago separately, there is has been a major escalation

1010
00:50:02,400 --> 00:50:05,279
Speaker 2: in terms of federal agents. On Friday, we showed you

1011
00:50:05,360 --> 00:50:09,840
Speaker 2: that absolutely horrific apartment rate, kids, adults pulled out of

1012
00:50:09,840 --> 00:50:12,800
Speaker 2: their beds middle of the night, American citizen not American citizen,

1013
00:50:12,840 --> 00:50:17,680
Speaker 2: freaking black hawk helicopters, people repelling onto the roof, little kids,

1014
00:50:17,960 --> 00:50:20,920
Speaker 2: zip tied, naked, thrown into U haul van. So that's

1015
00:50:20,960 --> 00:50:25,480
Speaker 2: all happening in Chicago, and according to Governor Pritzker, and also,

1016
00:50:25,520 --> 00:50:28,560
Speaker 2: according to independent reporting, Trump is now planning to try

1017
00:50:28,600 --> 00:50:32,800
Speaker 2: to federalize the Illinois National Guard to send into Chicago

1018
00:50:32,960 --> 00:50:35,520
Speaker 2: as well. Let's go ahead and play B two. This

1019
00:50:35,680 --> 00:50:40,120
Speaker 2: is Governor J. B. Pritzker responding to the Trump administration escalation.

1020
00:50:40,200 --> 00:50:40,399
Speaker 4: There.

1021
00:50:40,640 --> 00:50:43,040
Speaker 8: Let me just say that the secretary doesn't know what

1022
00:50:43,040 --> 00:50:47,080
Speaker 8: she's talking about. She frankly says that people are clapping.

1023
00:50:47,160 --> 00:50:49,799
Speaker 8: They're not. They're booing her on the street, and they're

1024
00:50:49,800 --> 00:50:55,000
Speaker 8: booing ICE and CBP. They're marching, the CBP marching on

1025
00:50:55,040 --> 00:51:01,520
Speaker 8: a beautiful Sunday in Michigan Avenue in Downtownshire. They're raiding

1026
00:51:01,760 --> 00:51:05,879
Speaker 8: neighborhoods where instead of going after the bad guys, they're

1027
00:51:05,920 --> 00:51:08,400
Speaker 8: just picking up people who are brown and black and

1028
00:51:08,440 --> 00:51:11,200
Speaker 8: then checking their credentials. Are you a US citizen? I

1029
00:51:11,200 --> 00:51:13,680
Speaker 8: don't know about you, but I don't carry around papers

1030
00:51:13,719 --> 00:51:16,600
Speaker 8: that say I'm a US citizen. So you can imagine

1031
00:51:16,600 --> 00:51:19,799
Speaker 8: people are getting detained, they're getting arrested US citizens. And

1032
00:51:19,840 --> 00:51:22,000
Speaker 8: they did this, of course, when they raided a building

1033
00:51:22,000 --> 00:51:24,319
Speaker 8: in the middle of the night in South Shore. One

1034
00:51:24,400 --> 00:51:27,040
Speaker 8: hundred and thirty people that were emptied out of this building.

1035
00:51:27,520 --> 00:51:30,960
Speaker 8: They were going after a few gang members, and instead

1036
00:51:31,200 --> 00:51:35,200
Speaker 8: they broke windows, they broke down doors, they ransacked the place,

1037
00:51:35,360 --> 00:51:37,320
Speaker 8: and there were people that were held, I mean elderly

1038
00:51:37,360 --> 00:51:41,400
Speaker 8: people and children, ZIP tied, elderly people held for three

1039
00:51:41,440 --> 00:51:44,200
Speaker 8: hours at a time. They are the ones that are

1040
00:51:44,239 --> 00:51:47,120
Speaker 8: making it a war zone. They need to get out

1041
00:51:47,200 --> 00:51:49,520
Speaker 8: of Chicago. If they're not going to focus on the

1042
00:51:49,520 --> 00:51:51,680
Speaker 8: worst of the worst, which is what the President said

1043
00:51:51,680 --> 00:51:53,520
Speaker 8: they were going to do, they need to get the

1044
00:51:53,560 --> 00:51:54,040
Speaker 8: heck out.

1045
00:51:54,360 --> 00:51:56,800
Speaker 2: And so that's all before the National Guard is brought

1046
00:51:56,840 --> 00:52:00,640
Speaker 2: in in Chicago. And you know, Pritz gurm is planning

1047
00:52:00,640 --> 00:52:04,279
Speaker 2: a lawsuit also to prevent the federal government from federalizing

1048
00:52:04,320 --> 00:52:06,759
Speaker 2: the National Guard in his state. So we'll see what

1049
00:52:06,840 --> 00:52:09,520
Speaker 2: happens there. Stephen Miller can put B five up on

1050
00:52:09,520 --> 00:52:13,279
Speaker 2: the screen, posting just some absolutely wild stuff, especially in

1051
00:52:13,280 --> 00:52:17,240
Speaker 2: the wake of the initial decision from the again Trump

1052
00:52:17,239 --> 00:52:20,520
Speaker 2: appointed judge who said you cannot federalize the National Guard

1053
00:52:20,560 --> 00:52:22,719
Speaker 2: and send them into Portland at this time. So he

1054
00:52:22,840 --> 00:52:26,000
Speaker 2: says in these separate posts, number one, our system is

1055
00:52:26,120 --> 00:52:29,160
Speaker 2: under attack from within. A Democrat federal judge is showing

1056
00:52:29,239 --> 00:52:32,600
Speaker 2: extreme leniency during the monster who tried to assassinate justice

1057
00:52:32,600 --> 00:52:34,480
Speaker 2: in the highest court in our land. Consider the message

1058
00:52:34,520 --> 00:52:36,879
Speaker 2: that sense to left wing terrorists, understand what is happening here.

1059
00:52:36,920 --> 00:52:40,560
Speaker 2: So that is about the person who death threats attempted

1060
00:52:40,600 --> 00:52:42,840
Speaker 2: to I think kill Brett Kavanaugh. And then in this

1061
00:52:42,880 --> 00:52:45,360
Speaker 2: other one he says legal insurrection. The president is the

1062
00:52:45,360 --> 00:52:47,239
Speaker 2: commander in chief of the armed force, is not an

1063
00:52:47,239 --> 00:52:49,799
Speaker 2: Oregon judge. Portland and Oregon law enforcement, the direction of

1064
00:52:49,800 --> 00:52:53,520
Speaker 2: local leaders have refused to aid ice officers facing relentless terrors,

1065
00:52:53,560 --> 00:52:55,719
Speaker 2: assault and threats to life. There are more local law

1066
00:52:55,760 --> 00:52:58,240
Speaker 2: enforcement officers in Oregon than there are guns and madges

1067
00:52:58,280 --> 00:53:02,000
Speaker 2: in the FBI nationwide. This is an organized terrorist attack

1068
00:53:02,400 --> 00:53:05,160
Speaker 2: on the federal government and its officers, and the deployment

1069
00:53:05,200 --> 00:53:09,040
Speaker 2: of troops is an absolute necessity to defend our personnel,

1070
00:53:09,120 --> 00:53:13,000
Speaker 2: our laws, our government, public order, and the republic itself.

1071
00:53:13,080 --> 00:53:15,040
Speaker 2: And you know, there have been a number of other

1072
00:53:15,080 --> 00:53:19,240
Speaker 2: posts from Steven Miller, just painting, you know, the country

1073
00:53:19,320 --> 00:53:22,279
Speaker 2: as already in a civil war, as Democrats being this

1074
00:53:22,360 --> 00:53:27,280
Speaker 2: well organized terrorist network, as Portland being you know, war ravaged,

1075
00:53:27,320 --> 00:53:30,240
Speaker 2: in the words of the president of this Trump appointed judge,

1076
00:53:30,280 --> 00:53:34,320
Speaker 2: as this you know, this temporary restraining order constituting legal insurrection.

1077
00:53:34,880 --> 00:53:38,680
Speaker 2: So and Steven Miller, you know, and with regard to

1078
00:53:38,719 --> 00:53:41,160
Speaker 2: these deployments, seems to be running the show. So this

1079
00:53:41,200 --> 00:53:43,719
Speaker 2: isn't just some random Trump official. This is a very

1080
00:53:43,760 --> 00:53:45,680
Speaker 2: powerful guy who's wielding a lot of power in the

1081
00:53:45,719 --> 00:53:47,600
Speaker 2: administration right now, and a lot of this plan seems

1082
00:53:47,600 --> 00:53:48,399
Speaker 2: to come directly from him.

1083
00:53:48,440 --> 00:53:50,160
Speaker 3: It does seem to come directly from him. And I've

1084
00:53:50,160 --> 00:53:52,400
Speaker 3: been actually thinking quite about it. I've been talking about

1085
00:53:52,680 --> 00:53:55,400
Speaker 3: with some friends. I'm like, what is this strategy here?

1086
00:53:55,719 --> 00:53:56,680
Speaker 1: I'll give you the cope.

1087
00:53:56,719 --> 00:53:59,000
Speaker 3: The cope is basically that there are not that many

1088
00:53:59,040 --> 00:54:02,800
Speaker 3: people who are actually in federal protective service whose job

1089
00:54:02,920 --> 00:54:07,320
Speaker 3: it is to quote unquote protect people who are federal employees,

1090
00:54:07,360 --> 00:54:10,440
Speaker 3: if that makes sense, as in most DHS quote cops

1091
00:54:10,480 --> 00:54:12,080
Speaker 3: are not cops in the traditional sense.

1092
00:54:12,080 --> 00:54:13,680
Speaker 1: That's why I note the Portland thing.

1093
00:54:13,680 --> 00:54:15,759
Speaker 3: They're like, that's why we need three hundred people to

1094
00:54:15,840 --> 00:54:18,279
Speaker 3: from the National Guard, because we don't actually have that

1095
00:54:18,360 --> 00:54:21,360
Speaker 3: many people to protect our personnel. And if they're you know,

1096
00:54:21,400 --> 00:54:23,479
Speaker 3: our personnel are not going to have any assistance from

1097
00:54:23,600 --> 00:54:26,640
Speaker 3: law enforcement, then that So that's the official explanation.

1098
00:54:26,960 --> 00:54:29,040
Speaker 4: I'd you talking about the personnel at the Ice building, Ice.

1099
00:54:28,960 --> 00:54:31,120
Speaker 3: The Ice building exactly well out on a raid. If

1100
00:54:31,160 --> 00:54:33,799
Speaker 3: they're saying, like, for example, there's videos of people like

1101
00:54:33,840 --> 00:54:35,520
Speaker 3: Ice who are in a raid or whatever and they're

1102
00:54:35,520 --> 00:54:37,440
Speaker 3: getting run off by people around them, and it's like, well,

1103
00:54:37,480 --> 00:54:38,960
Speaker 3: if the cops aren't going to do anything about that,

1104
00:54:39,000 --> 00:54:40,719
Speaker 3: then you need somebody to do something. If it's going

1105
00:54:40,760 --> 00:54:44,080
Speaker 3: to be a federal person. So that's their justification for

1106
00:54:44,200 --> 00:54:46,200
Speaker 3: why they're doing it. I also think a lot of

1107
00:54:46,200 --> 00:54:48,840
Speaker 3: it is to actually invite some of these fights with

1108
00:54:48,880 --> 00:54:51,800
Speaker 3: the Blue States over federal authority and to force a

1109
00:54:51,800 --> 00:54:54,319
Speaker 3: lot of this to the Supreme Court. This term of

1110
00:54:54,360 --> 00:54:57,360
Speaker 3: the Supreme Court is one of the most extraordinary for

1111
00:54:57,480 --> 00:55:01,080
Speaker 3: executive power. The Supreme Court actually returnally to rule on

1112
00:55:01,120 --> 00:55:03,879
Speaker 3: a lot of these shadow docket decisions to official real

1113
00:55:03,960 --> 00:55:06,719
Speaker 3: rulings as to for example, the Federal Trade Commission Lisa Cook.

1114
00:55:06,760 --> 00:55:10,160
Speaker 3: There's so many executive power decisions that are coming up there,

1115
00:55:10,200 --> 00:55:13,000
Speaker 3: and that's part of the decision there. I also think

1116
00:55:13,320 --> 00:55:17,240
Speaker 3: broadly they seem to think this is a winning political position.

1117
00:55:17,320 --> 00:55:20,640
Speaker 3: So you can disagree legal and trust me, I'm Blackhawk

1118
00:55:20,640 --> 00:55:22,880
Speaker 3: helicopters in downtown Chicago. I don't know.

1119
00:55:22,920 --> 00:55:23,720
Speaker 1: I think it's crazy.

1120
00:55:24,239 --> 00:55:26,879
Speaker 3: However, what they seem to believe is that some sort

1121
00:55:26,920 --> 00:55:31,080
Speaker 3: of like shockunawe approach on immigration seems to be like

1122
00:55:31,280 --> 00:55:33,040
Speaker 3: their winning message.

1123
00:55:33,040 --> 00:55:34,239
Speaker 1: And this is one.

1124
00:55:34,160 --> 00:55:36,239
Speaker 3: Where I think they're really off the mark, because what

1125
00:55:36,280 --> 00:55:40,719
Speaker 3: they don't seem to understand is that why did to

1126
00:55:40,760 --> 00:55:42,520
Speaker 3: the extent I think would say immigration was a number

1127
00:55:42,520 --> 00:55:44,719
Speaker 3: two issue in the twenty twenty four election. Number one

1128
00:55:44,800 --> 00:55:48,080
Speaker 3: was Biden's age, so okay, that's most important, But number two,

1129
00:55:48,120 --> 00:55:49,200
Speaker 3: I think it was the border. I think it was

1130
00:55:49,200 --> 00:55:51,640
Speaker 3: a ten to fifteen million people who came here illegally.

1131
00:55:51,920 --> 00:55:54,839
Speaker 3: What were people outraged about in that situation? They were

1132
00:55:54,880 --> 00:55:58,360
Speaker 3: outraged at lawlessness and at chaos. And so the problem

1133
00:55:58,480 --> 00:56:00,880
Speaker 3: I think for them is that it seems to me

1134
00:56:01,120 --> 00:56:03,760
Speaker 3: as if they are leaning instead in the opposite direction,

1135
00:56:03,960 --> 00:56:05,600
Speaker 3: where look, they shut the border on which I think

1136
00:56:05,680 --> 00:56:06,000
Speaker 3: is great.

1137
00:56:06,000 --> 00:56:06,800
Speaker 1: I think it's amazing.

1138
00:56:07,080 --> 00:56:10,640
Speaker 3: However, as the more they appear as the chaos agent,

1139
00:56:10,960 --> 00:56:12,279
Speaker 3: then they're the ones who are going to get to

1140
00:56:12,280 --> 00:56:14,400
Speaker 3: get to blame for all of the media stories. Right,

1141
00:56:14,440 --> 00:56:16,560
Speaker 3: so Biden owned the chaos of the border and the

1142
00:56:16,600 --> 00:56:18,879
Speaker 3: attendant surge, let's say, crime.

1143
00:56:18,920 --> 00:56:19,800
Speaker 1: Chaos, whatever.

1144
00:56:19,880 --> 00:56:22,200
Speaker 3: Right, all of that, rightfully, I think was put on

1145
00:56:22,200 --> 00:56:24,160
Speaker 3: Biden and on Komma because they said, hey, look, some

1146
00:56:24,200 --> 00:56:26,080
Speaker 3: of these people will not here rape and murdering people

1147
00:56:26,080 --> 00:56:26,920
Speaker 3: if you'd never let them in.

1148
00:56:26,960 --> 00:56:28,120
Speaker 1: You had a chaotic system.

1149
00:56:28,120 --> 00:56:30,359
Speaker 3: The Democrats don't have an answer other than legalizing them,

1150
00:56:30,360 --> 00:56:31,680
Speaker 3: and so we have to shut the border down. We

1151
00:56:31,680 --> 00:56:33,600
Speaker 3: need to do something about it. Most people actually were

1152
00:56:33,600 --> 00:56:35,800
Speaker 3: broadly on top of that message. When you start to

1153
00:56:35,800 --> 00:56:38,400
Speaker 3: see the Blackhawk and you see the federalization of troops,

1154
00:56:38,480 --> 00:56:40,359
Speaker 3: I think rightfully people start to go, hey, you know,

1155
00:56:40,440 --> 00:56:42,440
Speaker 3: this is a little weird here. If we start to

1156
00:56:42,480 --> 00:56:44,480
Speaker 3: see it all over the place, and they start to

1157
00:56:44,480 --> 00:56:48,279
Speaker 3: get very squeamish at that idea as it extends. So

1158
00:56:48,719 --> 00:56:50,959
Speaker 3: I don't know, I mean, it's a very it's bad.

1159
00:56:51,160 --> 00:56:53,200
Speaker 3: I have no other word for it. It's crazy. I don't

1160
00:56:53,239 --> 00:56:56,880
Speaker 3: think that in a reality that most people who voted

1161
00:56:56,880 --> 00:56:59,200
Speaker 3: for Trump is specifically on the issue of immigration, thought

1162
00:56:59,239 --> 00:57:01,440
Speaker 3: that this is what they were I really don't. I mean,

1163
00:57:01,440 --> 00:57:04,080
Speaker 3: and I people can go back and look, it's fine.

1164
00:57:04,120 --> 00:57:06,640
Speaker 3: I mean, we talked about alien in the Alien Enemies Act.

1165
00:57:06,800 --> 00:57:09,040
Speaker 3: We knew something like that was coming on MS thirteen.

1166
00:57:09,400 --> 00:57:12,240
Speaker 3: We knew that deportation itself, ice, et cetera.

1167
00:57:12,400 --> 00:57:13,799
Speaker 1: But I don't quite.

1168
00:57:13,520 --> 00:57:17,320
Speaker 3: Think people understood or I mean, it was never floated ever.

1169
00:57:17,400 --> 00:57:19,120
Speaker 3: And I read a lot of the documents, even Project

1170
00:57:19,160 --> 00:57:21,360
Speaker 3: twenty twive or anything like straight.

1171
00:57:21,120 --> 00:57:22,680
Speaker 1: Up Blackhawk helicopters.

1172
00:57:23,080 --> 00:57:26,000
Speaker 3: And also there's just this weird there's almost a twenty

1173
00:57:26,040 --> 00:57:29,840
Speaker 3: twenty five aisization. You sent this about all these cameras,

1174
00:57:29,880 --> 00:57:32,160
Speaker 3: like why are all of these films and put out

1175
00:57:32,160 --> 00:57:35,520
Speaker 3: like a Michael bay video right so to me, I mean,

1176
00:57:35,600 --> 00:57:38,800
Speaker 3: it just is weird, like you have the theovonn video

1177
00:57:38,920 --> 00:57:42,440
Speaker 3: right where we're like playing around with Theovonne videos and

1178
00:57:42,480 --> 00:57:43,400
Speaker 3: tweeting them out from.

1179
00:57:43,280 --> 00:57:44,800
Speaker 1: The official DHS account.

1180
00:57:44,800 --> 00:57:46,880
Speaker 3: It is like, hey, this is not a meme, man,

1181
00:57:47,200 --> 00:57:49,840
Speaker 3: you know, it's like, it's not it's not funny per se.

1182
00:57:49,960 --> 00:57:51,800
Speaker 3: You can support law and order, which I do. You

1183
00:57:51,800 --> 00:57:55,640
Speaker 3: can suppedit to reportation, which I do. To revel in

1184
00:57:55,680 --> 00:57:58,240
Speaker 3: the mem ification of it seems to me like you're

1185
00:57:58,280 --> 00:58:03,000
Speaker 3: stepping things and over reading a mandate in very different ways. However, look,

1186
00:58:03,720 --> 00:58:05,440
Speaker 3: I hit this with them and they hit it back

1187
00:58:05,480 --> 00:58:07,640
Speaker 3: to me. Trump's got still got a highproval on immigration

1188
00:58:07,760 --> 00:58:08,720
Speaker 3: is number one issue.

1189
00:58:08,800 --> 00:58:11,280
Speaker 2: If we look, it's like dramatically underwe he's high.

1190
00:58:12,600 --> 00:58:16,240
Speaker 3: Everybody else his disapproved rating. Crystal is exactly the same

1191
00:58:16,280 --> 00:58:18,720
Speaker 3: as it was three months ago. Hasn't budged a single issue, right, So,

1192
00:58:18,840 --> 00:58:21,360
Speaker 3: like most people, if you talk to the Republican faithful,

1193
00:58:21,400 --> 00:58:23,000
Speaker 3: by the way, if we're talking about base, you're saying

1194
00:58:23,000 --> 00:58:24,120
Speaker 3: the base hates ice.

1195
00:58:24,440 --> 00:58:24,640
Speaker 8: Yeah.

1196
00:58:24,800 --> 00:58:27,120
Speaker 1: Let me tell you something. This is like pornography for boomers.

1197
00:58:27,160 --> 00:58:28,880
Speaker 3: Yeah, for a lot of these ice you know, these

1198
00:58:28,880 --> 00:58:30,320
Speaker 3: ice videos and stuff.

1199
00:58:30,360 --> 00:58:31,480
Speaker 1: So I don't know.

1200
00:58:31,640 --> 00:58:34,040
Speaker 3: I mean, if I look at it generally, it seems

1201
00:58:34,040 --> 00:58:38,640
Speaker 3: more irreconcilable than ever, just purely on terms of the

1202
00:58:38,640 --> 00:58:41,400
Speaker 3: politics and where things are going. A lot of it

1203
00:58:41,440 --> 00:58:44,120
Speaker 3: also is shock and awe because they want self deportation,

1204
00:58:44,240 --> 00:58:45,880
Speaker 3: which I mean, you do have to say it did

1205
00:58:45,920 --> 00:58:47,840
Speaker 3: work if some one point two million people left the

1206
00:58:47,840 --> 00:58:50,680
Speaker 3: country in the last I think in the last eight months,

1207
00:58:50,720 --> 00:58:52,760
Speaker 3: So that's part of the strategy.

1208
00:58:52,600 --> 00:58:56,080
Speaker 2: My fear is that they don't actually care about the politics,

1209
00:58:56,160 --> 00:58:58,440
Speaker 2: that it's all just about power, and that this is

1210
00:58:58,520 --> 00:59:01,000
Speaker 2: about this is about a war.

1211
00:59:00,960 --> 00:59:01,680
Speaker 4: Truly a war.

1212
00:59:01,880 --> 00:59:03,480
Speaker 2: I mean you have to call it that when you're

1213
00:59:03,560 --> 00:59:07,240
Speaker 2: talking about sending Texas National Guard into Oregon or into

1214
00:59:07,280 --> 00:59:09,680
Speaker 2: California or into Chicago or whatever.

1215
00:59:10,120 --> 00:59:11,160
Speaker 4: Truly a war.

1216
00:59:11,040 --> 00:59:14,880
Speaker 2: On Blue states, blue cities Democrats in general, and not

1217
00:59:14,960 --> 00:59:16,920
Speaker 2: just like ANTIF and the left, but they consider like

1218
00:59:17,000 --> 00:59:20,840
Speaker 2: Gavin Newsome to be some wild radical terrorist insider, et cetera.

1219
00:59:21,320 --> 00:59:26,360
Speaker 2: And so when you put together this crackdown, I think

1220
00:59:26,400 --> 00:59:29,480
Speaker 2: these some of the things they have done could genuinely

1221
00:59:29,520 --> 00:59:32,320
Speaker 2: be characterize as like terrorist attacks, like what they did

1222
00:59:32,360 --> 00:59:36,760
Speaker 2: to that apartment building, absolutely insane, terrorizing these cities, you know,

1223
00:59:36,800 --> 00:59:39,160
Speaker 2: crushing descent on the media front, crushing descent with the

1224
00:59:39,240 --> 00:59:41,800
Speaker 2: law firms, with the universities, with any sort of pro

1225
00:59:41,880 --> 00:59:47,439
Speaker 2: Palestine speech across the board. It is a consolidation of power.

1226
00:59:47,480 --> 00:59:49,560
Speaker 2: Even the terriffs or that you know, fining Lisa Cook,

1227
00:59:49,640 --> 00:59:52,560
Speaker 2: all of these things, the indictment of Comy I don't

1228
00:59:52,600 --> 00:59:55,560
Speaker 2: like Homie, but you know, clearly weaponization of the DOJ.

1229
00:59:55,720 --> 00:59:57,560
Speaker 2: There was reporting that came out they wanted a whole

1230
00:59:57,600 --> 01:00:00,600
Speaker 2: purp walk with like Burley FBI, pull.

1231
01:00:00,360 --> 01:00:01,200
Speaker 4: Them mount, et cetera.

1232
01:00:01,760 --> 01:00:04,640
Speaker 2: This is all a theater and a show and a

1233
01:00:04,720 --> 01:00:08,960
Speaker 2: reality of a consolidation of power so that people are afraid.

1234
01:00:09,000 --> 01:00:11,360
Speaker 2: They're afraid to speak out, they're afraid to fight back.

1235
01:00:11,520 --> 01:00:13,960
Speaker 2: They're afraid that you know, if they're the governor or

1236
01:00:14,000 --> 01:00:17,000
Speaker 2: the mayor who says something bad about Trump that next

1237
01:00:17,120 --> 01:00:19,080
Speaker 2: is going to be troops invading their town, et cetera.

1238
01:00:19,600 --> 01:00:21,960
Speaker 2: That's what I really think that this is ultimately about

1239
01:00:22,360 --> 01:00:24,800
Speaker 2: on the immigration front. You know, I think you're right

1240
01:00:24,840 --> 01:00:27,360
Speaker 2: about the sense that people get of like, first of all,

1241
01:00:27,400 --> 01:00:30,200
Speaker 2: this is just you're just like delighting and cruelty, which

1242
01:00:30,240 --> 01:00:35,320
Speaker 2: is horrible. Second of all, the blowback to American citizens

1243
01:00:35,400 --> 01:00:37,400
Speaker 2: is so apparent at this point. You gatt in that

1244
01:00:37,440 --> 01:00:40,280
Speaker 2: apartment build like that was you know, there were some

1245
01:00:40,400 --> 01:00:43,320
Speaker 2: undocumented immigrants there according to the government. I'm sure there

1246
01:00:43,320 --> 01:00:46,240
Speaker 2: were apparently there were some venezuela and migrants there. It

1247
01:00:46,280 --> 01:00:49,640
Speaker 2: was mostly you know, black Americans who were in that

1248
01:00:49,720 --> 01:00:52,439
Speaker 2: apartment building, who who did nothing wrong, who were pulled

1249
01:00:52,480 --> 01:00:54,560
Speaker 2: out in the middle of the night, their kids traumatize.

1250
01:00:54,600 --> 01:00:56,600
Speaker 4: All of these things you can go through.

1251
01:00:56,640 --> 01:00:58,560
Speaker 2: You can watch you know, there's a video of an

1252
01:00:58,560 --> 01:01:01,479
Speaker 2: American business owner in Calfour, he seventy nine years old,

1253
01:01:01,760 --> 01:01:04,160
Speaker 2: who was trying to show the Ice agents his papers

1254
01:01:04,160 --> 01:01:06,400
Speaker 2: for his workers. They throw them to the ground, they

1255
01:01:06,520 --> 01:01:09,040
Speaker 2: jump on him, they break his ribs. He had trauma.

1256
01:01:09,360 --> 01:01:12,400
Speaker 2: There was the woman you know who bereft, woman whose

1257
01:01:12,600 --> 01:01:16,160
Speaker 2: husband was being taken by Ice for deportation at the

1258
01:01:16,160 --> 01:01:20,120
Speaker 2: courthouse in New York. She's grabbed by the hair, thrown

1259
01:01:20,160 --> 01:01:23,320
Speaker 2: to the ground again, had trauma. Initially they come out, oh,

1260
01:01:23,400 --> 01:01:26,000
Speaker 2: this was unacceptable. A week later, the agent who did

1261
01:01:26,000 --> 01:01:28,400
Speaker 2: that is right back on the job. There was a

1262
01:01:28,760 --> 01:01:31,600
Speaker 2: US Army veteran. New York Times wrote up a story

1263
01:01:31,640 --> 01:01:34,520
Speaker 2: of a number of American citizens who have been brought

1264
01:01:34,520 --> 01:01:36,560
Speaker 2: in by ice and detained by Ice in these really

1265
01:01:36,600 --> 01:01:39,800
Speaker 2: aggressive ways. US Army veteran in California is trying to

1266
01:01:39,840 --> 01:01:41,959
Speaker 2: get to his job at a farm where he served

1267
01:01:42,000 --> 01:01:45,120
Speaker 2: as security, and there was some sort of protest the

1268
01:01:45,200 --> 01:01:47,240
Speaker 2: Ice age. He told them, I'm just trying to get

1269
01:01:47,240 --> 01:01:50,040
Speaker 2: to work here. They broke in the windshield of his car,

1270
01:01:50,600 --> 01:01:53,920
Speaker 2: shot pepper spray in his face, and detained him with

1271
01:01:54,000 --> 01:01:57,640
Speaker 2: no lawyer, no call, no rights, no due process, no nothing,

1272
01:01:58,000 --> 01:02:01,720
Speaker 2: for three days. So those are the sorts of things

1273
01:02:01,760 --> 01:02:04,960
Speaker 2: that people are increasingly seeing where. You know, for me,

1274
01:02:05,080 --> 01:02:06,560
Speaker 2: I don't think you should be comfortable with these things

1275
01:02:06,600 --> 01:02:09,120
Speaker 2: happening to immigrants either. But there is a large segment

1276
01:02:09,120 --> 01:02:11,120
Speaker 2: of society it's like, well, they came here illegal, what

1277
01:02:11,160 --> 01:02:14,080
Speaker 2: are you going to do now? It is undeniable, the

1278
01:02:14,120 --> 01:02:17,240
Speaker 2: way that American citizens are having their lives turned upside

1279
01:02:17,280 --> 01:02:19,640
Speaker 2: down by this federal government. And like you said, I

1280
01:02:19,640 --> 01:02:22,520
Speaker 2: don't think they have like a plausible case that they're

1281
01:02:22,520 --> 01:02:25,160
Speaker 2: coming in to correct the chaos. When they come in,

1282
01:02:25,600 --> 01:02:28,280
Speaker 2: it is stoking chaos. And then with the presence of

1283
01:02:28,360 --> 01:02:30,720
Speaker 2: the cameras in this it's also very clear the way

1284
01:02:30,760 --> 01:02:33,400
Speaker 2: that it is all for. It is a reality, but

1285
01:02:33,400 --> 01:02:36,360
Speaker 2: it's also for a show that they want to put

1286
01:02:36,400 --> 01:02:37,439
Speaker 2: on to intimidate people.

1287
01:02:37,480 --> 01:02:39,640
Speaker 1: For me, it's just about being you're totally out of control.

1288
01:02:39,760 --> 01:02:41,520
Speaker 3: Like in many of these places, you're like, dude, what

1289
01:02:41,600 --> 01:02:42,520
Speaker 3: are you guys doing.

1290
01:02:42,520 --> 01:02:44,160
Speaker 1: I don't know about everybody else. I grew up in

1291
01:02:44,160 --> 01:02:44,760
Speaker 1: a small town.

1292
01:02:44,880 --> 01:02:47,320
Speaker 3: A lot of these guys remind me of small town cops, right,

1293
01:02:47,560 --> 01:02:50,680
Speaker 3: who when they just stop somebody for weed, they're like,

1294
01:02:50,720 --> 01:02:52,640
Speaker 3: oh man, this is the biggest day of my life,

1295
01:02:52,640 --> 01:02:54,480
Speaker 3: although you know it's stopping self where we may be

1296
01:02:54,520 --> 01:02:55,600
Speaker 3: a good thing but actually.

1297
01:02:55,360 --> 01:02:56,800
Speaker 4: Have no experience with my small town.

1298
01:02:57,600 --> 01:02:59,720
Speaker 1: Are they good? Yeah, well they.

1299
01:02:59,440 --> 01:03:00,920
Speaker 4: Rescue my life or when she has lost in the

1300
01:03:00,920 --> 01:03:01,520
Speaker 4: wis oh okay?

1301
01:03:01,560 --> 01:03:01,920
Speaker 5: All right?

1302
01:03:02,000 --> 01:03:03,960
Speaker 4: Well, and some of them, first, here's my thing.

1303
01:03:04,160 --> 01:03:05,720
Speaker 1: We're not saying they're all bad.

1304
01:03:05,960 --> 01:03:08,840
Speaker 3: We're just saying like there is a specific archetype of

1305
01:03:08,880 --> 01:03:11,360
Speaker 3: the small town cop who wants to be a hero

1306
01:03:11,520 --> 01:03:13,320
Speaker 3: and wants to not even just to be a hero

1307
01:03:14,360 --> 01:03:17,440
Speaker 3: on a power trip. It works out a planet fitness

1308
01:03:17,520 --> 01:03:19,640
Speaker 3: and he has been waiting for the day of his

1309
01:03:19,720 --> 01:03:22,200
Speaker 3: life to practice a YouTube jiu jitsu video and we

1310
01:03:22,240 --> 01:03:24,840
Speaker 3: all know it. And that seems to be some of

1311
01:03:24,920 --> 01:03:27,720
Speaker 3: the energy. I you know, again, I struggle with this

1312
01:03:27,760 --> 01:03:30,360
Speaker 3: because look, I know this is part of like how

1313
01:03:30,440 --> 01:03:32,440
Speaker 3: did we all get here again?

1314
01:03:32,680 --> 01:03:34,880
Speaker 1: Chaos, lawlessness at the border.

1315
01:03:35,120 --> 01:03:38,680
Speaker 3: There was no legitimate solution, democratic solution that was accepted

1316
01:03:38,720 --> 01:03:41,840
Speaker 3: by the American people for the democratic view of illegal immigration.

1317
01:03:42,000 --> 01:03:45,479
Speaker 3: Under the Biden administration, people agreed with deportation. I still

1318
01:03:45,480 --> 01:03:48,960
Speaker 3: think people agree with deportation. The question has to be

1319
01:03:49,320 --> 01:03:52,200
Speaker 3: about law and order. And this is also where I mean,

1320
01:03:52,240 --> 01:03:55,040
Speaker 3: I don't know, I'm curious where you think things are going, because,

1321
01:03:55,280 --> 01:03:58,360
Speaker 3: let's be honest, abolish ice in twenty eighteen was a

1322
01:03:58,480 --> 01:04:02,800
Speaker 3: political disaster. A disaster. I think it's actually very interesting.

1323
01:04:03,080 --> 01:04:05,800
Speaker 3: I have not seen that sort of rhetoric re emerge

1324
01:04:05,880 --> 01:04:08,080
Speaker 3: even in the midst of where we're to be honest,

1325
01:04:08,080 --> 01:04:09,720
Speaker 3: you're probably more legitimate saying it today.

1326
01:04:09,520 --> 01:04:11,600
Speaker 4: That I have seen it and I support it.

1327
01:04:11,920 --> 01:04:14,560
Speaker 1: Okay, yeah, but let's all sit with that.

1328
01:04:14,560 --> 01:04:16,920
Speaker 3: That all seemed like the hot, you know, thing to

1329
01:04:17,000 --> 01:04:20,160
Speaker 3: do in twenty eighteen, and so what happened, Oh, ICE

1330
01:04:20,240 --> 01:04:22,920
Speaker 3: is fascist deportation, etc. So now we let's flood the

1331
01:04:22,920 --> 01:04:25,760
Speaker 3: country with ten to fifteen million illegals and you're gonna

1332
01:04:25,760 --> 01:04:28,520
Speaker 3: lose the election. So that's my question here is about like,

1333
01:04:28,600 --> 01:04:32,080
Speaker 3: what are legitimate law and order solutions to this, Because

1334
01:04:32,120 --> 01:04:34,840
Speaker 3: at the same time, let's be honest here, a huge

1335
01:04:34,880 --> 01:04:38,320
Speaker 3: amount of the left supports like actual violence against ICE.

1336
01:04:38,480 --> 01:04:40,920
Speaker 3: That doesn't mean that they should be wearing masks or

1337
01:04:41,000 --> 01:04:43,360
Speaker 3: acting totally out of You don't become the enemy in

1338
01:04:43,400 --> 01:04:46,040
Speaker 3: my enemy, you know, you don't become the mirror image of.

1339
01:04:46,000 --> 01:04:47,680
Speaker 1: What we support should criticize.

1340
01:04:47,800 --> 01:04:50,760
Speaker 3: But this kind of leaves everybody to dig in and say, hey,

1341
01:04:51,000 --> 01:04:55,760
Speaker 3: let's be real. Twenty seventeen to twenty twenty was fucking crazy.

1342
01:04:56,080 --> 01:05:00,480
Speaker 3: BLM is burning shit down, you have ICE antifelulis throwing

1343
01:05:00,560 --> 01:05:02,680
Speaker 3: rocks and shit at ICE agents, which.

1344
01:05:02,600 --> 01:05:04,320
Speaker 1: Again, let's be real people.

1345
01:05:04,440 --> 01:05:06,640
Speaker 3: Actually, I would say, by and large, just like a

1346
01:05:07,000 --> 01:05:10,240
Speaker 3: leftist coalition that supports that how do we get ourselves

1347
01:05:10,240 --> 01:05:13,000
Speaker 3: out of this? I mean, because what's the inverse abolish ice,

1348
01:05:13,120 --> 01:05:14,160
Speaker 3: like okay, good luck.

1349
01:05:14,240 --> 01:05:15,400
Speaker 1: I mean, I don't see it.

1350
01:05:15,600 --> 01:05:18,320
Speaker 3: You know, kids and crazes, kids in cages, crocodile tears.

1351
01:05:18,520 --> 01:05:20,840
Speaker 3: Whenever Obama was doing the same thing, like it all

1352
01:05:20,880 --> 01:05:23,400
Speaker 3: reeks me of the same kind of pushback narrative.

1353
01:05:23,400 --> 01:05:24,800
Speaker 1: And then we're just going to come right back here,

1354
01:05:27,480 --> 01:05:28,320
Speaker 1: because that's what I would say.

1355
01:05:28,320 --> 01:05:30,640
Speaker 3: I would say, we're here today because of the failures

1356
01:05:30,640 --> 01:05:33,040
Speaker 3: of the center but largely the center left and of

1357
01:05:33,080 --> 01:05:36,200
Speaker 3: the far left overreach on immigration. They are largely to

1358
01:05:36,200 --> 01:05:38,760
Speaker 3: blame for American public opinion shifting this far. Now. Of

1359
01:05:38,800 --> 01:05:41,480
Speaker 3: course there's agency in the Trump administration, et cetera. But

1360
01:05:41,680 --> 01:05:43,240
Speaker 3: as you just said, you need to grapple with the

1361
01:05:43,240 --> 01:05:45,360
Speaker 3: fact that a huge portion of the public is like, no,

1362
01:05:45,600 --> 01:05:48,360
Speaker 3: we're fucking done. All this empathy and all that got

1363
01:05:48,400 --> 01:05:50,600
Speaker 3: what mass illegals here in the country.

1364
01:05:50,640 --> 01:05:51,320
Speaker 1: We can't have that.

1365
01:05:51,680 --> 01:05:54,520
Speaker 3: Most people agree with that, I would say broadly in

1366
01:05:54,560 --> 01:05:57,480
Speaker 3: saying like it was a totally out of control situation,

1367
01:05:57,840 --> 01:05:59,240
Speaker 3: like how do we dig ourselves out of it?

1368
01:05:59,240 --> 01:06:01,680
Speaker 2: It's wild up for grabs on immigration and.

1369
01:06:01,640 --> 01:06:03,960
Speaker 4: The swinging underbid.

1370
01:06:04,320 --> 01:06:07,600
Speaker 2: The swings that we've seen just since Trump was elected

1371
01:06:07,720 --> 01:06:12,160
Speaker 2: are truly wild. I mean, he is dramatically underwater on immigration. Now,

1372
01:06:12,240 --> 01:06:14,640
Speaker 2: you're right, it was one of his strongest issues coming in.

1373
01:06:15,440 --> 01:06:18,400
Speaker 2: You know, my perspective is different in terms of how

1374
01:06:18,400 --> 01:06:22,200
Speaker 2: we got here. I mean, I see it zooming out.

1375
01:06:22,480 --> 01:06:25,120
Speaker 2: I see it more broadly as a failure of the

1376
01:06:25,160 --> 01:06:29,040
Speaker 2: center left to offer an alternative view of the world

1377
01:06:29,320 --> 01:06:32,200
Speaker 2: that is not about your problems are because of immigrants,

1378
01:06:32,720 --> 01:06:33,080
Speaker 2: that is.

1379
01:06:33,400 --> 01:06:34,800
Speaker 4: But that is the truth.

1380
01:06:34,960 --> 01:06:38,560
Speaker 2: It is the reality because the whole reason that this

1381
01:06:38,640 --> 01:06:42,000
Speaker 2: narrative has purchased is because you have people who feel

1382
01:06:42,040 --> 01:06:44,360
Speaker 2: like they are struggling in their lives. They feel like

1383
01:06:44,480 --> 01:06:46,200
Speaker 2: the world has passed them. They feel like they're not

1384
01:06:46,280 --> 01:06:48,480
Speaker 2: able to get ahead. They feel like you know, inflation is,

1385
01:06:48,840 --> 01:06:51,200
Speaker 2: they're struggling to pay their bills, the grocery bills are

1386
01:06:51,200 --> 01:06:53,440
Speaker 2: a healthcare is expensive, Like, I don't know that my

1387
01:06:53,520 --> 01:06:54,760
Speaker 2: kids are going to be able to even have the

1388
01:06:54,800 --> 01:06:55,480
Speaker 2: life that I have.

1389
01:06:55,600 --> 01:06:58,880
Speaker 4: What is coming to and they're looking for what went wrong?

1390
01:06:59,280 --> 01:07:02,800
Speaker 2: And has a very clear and the right broadly but specifically,

1391
01:07:02,840 --> 01:07:05,920
Speaker 2: Trump has this very clear narrative. It's and immigrants are

1392
01:07:05,920 --> 01:07:08,320
Speaker 2: central to the not the only scapegog, but that's central

1393
01:07:08,360 --> 01:07:11,480
Speaker 2: to it. And if you don't offer an alternative explanation,

1394
01:07:11,560 --> 01:07:14,720
Speaker 2: that people are going to gravitate towards that solution. But

1395
01:07:15,520 --> 01:07:18,840
Speaker 2: you know, when you say mass deportation, right, when I

1396
01:07:18,920 --> 01:07:21,560
Speaker 2: heard that, I'm not sure that I saw black Hawk

1397
01:07:21,640 --> 01:07:25,200
Speaker 2: helicopters repelling onto apartment buildings in Chicago, but I knew

1398
01:07:25,240 --> 01:07:29,120
Speaker 2: it would entail mass, yes, chaos. I knew it would

1399
01:07:29,240 --> 01:07:32,000
Speaker 2: entail infringement not just on immigrants rights, but on American

1400
01:07:32,000 --> 01:07:34,640
Speaker 2: citizens rights because it has to because if you're going

1401
01:07:34,640 --> 01:07:37,080
Speaker 2: to sort the immigrant from the non immigrant, it is

1402
01:07:37,120 --> 01:07:40,040
Speaker 2: going to require surveillance, and you know it's going to

1403
01:07:40,080 --> 01:07:42,560
Speaker 2: require a heavy hand from the paragarment.

1404
01:07:42,560 --> 01:07:43,640
Speaker 4: I think you would acknowledge that.

1405
01:07:43,960 --> 01:07:47,479
Speaker 2: So, like I said, I didn't envision kids naked, zip

1406
01:07:47,480 --> 01:07:48,320
Speaker 2: tied together.

1407
01:07:48,080 --> 01:07:50,320
Speaker 4: In new haul vans, but I knew it would be brutal.

1408
01:07:50,360 --> 01:07:52,040
Speaker 2: But I think for a lot of people, when they

1409
01:07:52,080 --> 01:07:55,360
Speaker 2: saw mass deportation, they thought like the criminals, right, And

1410
01:07:55,560 --> 01:08:00,040
Speaker 2: Trump consistently in this campaign more than previously portray the

1411
01:08:00,160 --> 01:08:03,120
Speaker 2: undocumented immigrants, as Kermey talked about, Oh, they're emptying out

1412
01:08:03,200 --> 01:08:05,960
Speaker 2: the insane asylums and so there was this image of

1413
01:08:06,000 --> 01:08:10,920
Speaker 2: the undocumented immigrant in general as being this criminal character

1414
01:08:11,000 --> 01:08:12,600
Speaker 2: and we got to find them, we got to lock

1415
01:08:12,640 --> 01:08:14,360
Speaker 2: them up, we got them, get them out of the country.

1416
01:08:14,480 --> 01:08:16,320
Speaker 4: And yes, people are on board with I'm on board

1417
01:08:16,320 --> 01:08:16,599
Speaker 4: with that.

1418
01:08:16,680 --> 01:08:18,800
Speaker 2: If you've got, you know, someone who's violent, criminal, I

1419
01:08:18,840 --> 01:08:20,800
Speaker 2: don't want them in the country, you know, even in

1420
01:08:20,800 --> 01:08:25,880
Speaker 2: my most expansive immigration view. But as the rubber has

1421
01:08:26,000 --> 01:08:28,439
Speaker 2: met the road and people see what it actually means,

1422
01:08:28,800 --> 01:08:32,000
Speaker 2: and you see, actually Stephen Miller doesn't prioritize criminals. He

1423
01:08:32,040 --> 01:08:35,840
Speaker 2: prioritizes random dudes at home depot. He prioritizes random, you know,

1424
01:08:35,960 --> 01:08:38,479
Speaker 2: migrants in an apartment building that, like some slumlord is

1425
01:08:38,560 --> 01:08:43,160
Speaker 2: trying to get evicted. He is overtly told his law enforcement,

1426
01:08:43,160 --> 01:08:46,160
Speaker 2: you know, whether it's Iceer or others, that they need

1427
01:08:46,200 --> 01:08:50,080
Speaker 2: to stop wasting their time doing these complicated gang cases

1428
01:08:50,120 --> 01:08:52,920
Speaker 2: because that takes time to develop and that's more difficult

1429
01:08:52,960 --> 01:08:56,760
Speaker 2: case work, and just go for the numbers. So you

1430
01:08:56,840 --> 01:08:59,559
Speaker 2: have many fewer of the much smaller percentage of the

1431
01:08:59,560 --> 01:09:02,280
Speaker 2: immigrants or in federal custody actually have any sort of

1432
01:09:02,280 --> 01:09:06,360
Speaker 2: criminal indictment then under prior administration. So in any case,

1433
01:09:06,439 --> 01:09:09,320
Speaker 2: it's a long way of saying that. You know, I

1434
01:09:09,360 --> 01:09:12,360
Speaker 2: think you're right that when people actually see these images

1435
01:09:12,479 --> 01:09:15,919
Speaker 2: and grapple with what is being done in their cities

1436
01:09:16,240 --> 01:09:18,559
Speaker 2: and they put it together with the other you know,

1437
01:09:18,640 --> 01:09:21,800
Speaker 2: crackdowns that are coming on speech and weaponization of the

1438
01:09:21,840 --> 01:09:26,760
Speaker 2: government and war on elected officials and democratic elected officials

1439
01:09:27,040 --> 01:09:29,920
Speaker 2: in states and cities across the country, that they are

1440
01:09:30,240 --> 01:09:34,480
Speaker 2: broadly repulsed. Now, you're right his approval rating basically.

1441
01:09:34,040 --> 01:09:36,360
Speaker 1: Where it's because.

1442
01:09:35,479 --> 01:09:38,439
Speaker 2: People are so it's not good. It's like forty forty

1443
01:09:38,479 --> 01:09:41,360
Speaker 2: two percent something like that. People are very locked in

1444
01:09:41,840 --> 01:09:44,000
Speaker 2: with their with their views of Trump. But I do

1445
01:09:44,040 --> 01:09:45,759
Speaker 2: want to get to we have some of those images

1446
01:09:45,800 --> 01:09:47,680
Speaker 2: just so people can see for themselves, you know, some

1447
01:09:47,720 --> 01:09:49,960
Speaker 2: of the things that are unfolding. These are all from

1448
01:09:50,120 --> 01:09:53,639
Speaker 2: Chicago and Portland. So this is a sniper in an

1449
01:09:53,800 --> 01:09:57,880
Speaker 2: armored vehicle. I'm I think that's a pepper ball, Okay,

1450
01:09:58,320 --> 01:10:00,920
Speaker 2: that was in broad view outside of this is also

1451
01:10:01,720 --> 01:10:04,519
Speaker 2: this is actually Portland, and this is really important. I

1452
01:10:04,520 --> 01:10:06,800
Speaker 2: want you to notice not only this, like you know,

1453
01:10:06,960 --> 01:10:08,960
Speaker 2: mass Show of Forever is all hit it up and

1454
01:10:08,960 --> 01:10:11,439
Speaker 2: look like stormtroopers and then you got these camera guys,

1455
01:10:12,160 --> 01:10:15,600
Speaker 2: but camera. You know you got the iPhone, dude, you

1456
01:10:15,640 --> 01:10:19,360
Speaker 2: had a couple of camera guys. This is Chicago PD

1457
01:10:20,000 --> 01:10:22,439
Speaker 2: that was actually tear gased by Ice.

1458
01:10:22,640 --> 01:10:23,719
Speaker 4: So the local law.

1459
01:10:23,720 --> 01:10:28,080
Speaker 2: Enforcement Chicago PAD here struggling after they were tear gased

1460
01:10:28,080 --> 01:10:31,920
Speaker 2: by Ice. There was another incident where Ice tear gas.

1461
01:10:32,439 --> 01:10:35,840
Speaker 2: You're an elementary school. The elementary school had to you know,

1462
01:10:36,240 --> 01:10:40,680
Speaker 2: cancel recess, keep everybody inside because of the random like

1463
01:10:40,760 --> 01:10:43,960
Speaker 2: ice tear gasing in their neighborhoods. So it was incredibly

1464
01:10:44,000 --> 01:10:49,040
Speaker 2: heavy handed tactics, even impacting elementary schools and police officials

1465
01:10:49,080 --> 01:10:51,800
Speaker 2: as well. And we have more images here. This is

1466
01:10:51,840 --> 01:10:56,160
Speaker 2: still more Chicago Police Department recovering from being tear gas

1467
01:10:56,240 --> 01:10:59,120
Speaker 2: which is just an insane situation. Actually, the Broadview Illinois

1468
01:10:59,160 --> 01:11:03,840
Speaker 2: Police chief says that they're getting fake nine to one

1469
01:11:03,960 --> 01:11:07,600
Speaker 2: one calls from Ice agents as well, and it's incredibly

1470
01:11:07,640 --> 01:11:09,240
Speaker 2: taxing to their resources.

1471
01:11:10,000 --> 01:11:11,320
Speaker 4: Here you have, you know.

1472
01:11:11,280 --> 01:11:17,280
Speaker 2: A confrontation from Ice and protesters. I believe this is

1473
01:11:17,320 --> 01:11:19,720
Speaker 2: in Chicago. I had double check that I believe this

1474
01:11:19,760 --> 01:11:22,320
Speaker 2: is in Chicago. These scenes that are occurring again, this

1475
01:11:22,360 --> 01:11:23,880
Speaker 2: is before the National Guard comes in.

1476
01:11:24,000 --> 01:11:25,280
Speaker 4: This is for sure Portland.

1477
01:11:25,600 --> 01:11:29,920
Speaker 2: Those are sniper's stationed on the rooftop, you know, overlooking

1478
01:11:29,960 --> 01:11:33,200
Speaker 2: this area outside the ice building where these protests were occurring.

1479
01:11:33,280 --> 01:11:35,559
Speaker 2: So this is some of what's you know, being done

1480
01:11:35,720 --> 01:11:36,959
Speaker 2: on city streets.

1481
01:11:36,960 --> 01:11:39,800
Speaker 3: My thing is, I don't think this was inherent mass deportation.

1482
01:11:40,000 --> 01:11:42,880
Speaker 3: I think this is genuinely a Trump thing. Like I

1483
01:11:42,880 --> 01:11:44,840
Speaker 3: don't think that this is necessarily how.

1484
01:11:44,760 --> 01:11:46,200
Speaker 4: Its like a Stephen Miller thing.

1485
01:11:46,640 --> 01:11:50,599
Speaker 3: It is genuinely a vision for them about division, which

1486
01:11:50,880 --> 01:11:53,880
Speaker 3: let's again let's be very real here, it has worked

1487
01:11:53,920 --> 01:11:56,160
Speaker 3: to their political benefit. We can read a pull all

1488
01:11:56,200 --> 01:11:58,519
Speaker 3: we want. Who knows, I mean, New Jersey's looking kind

1489
01:11:58,560 --> 01:12:00,280
Speaker 3: of close to me if you have been looking that

1490
01:12:00,520 --> 01:12:00,960
Speaker 3: the New.

1491
01:12:00,840 --> 01:12:02,479
Speaker 1: Jersey race republic can could win in the state.

1492
01:12:02,520 --> 01:12:04,640
Speaker 3: And again listen roll the tape, make fun of me

1493
01:12:04,720 --> 01:12:07,759
Speaker 3: if if he loses, it could be Gavin Newsome.

1494
01:12:07,760 --> 01:12:08,599
Speaker 1: Recall cope that.

1495
01:12:08,560 --> 01:12:10,799
Speaker 4: I'm muffing right now, But it's possible.

1496
01:12:11,080 --> 01:12:11,759
Speaker 1: It's possible.

1497
01:12:11,840 --> 01:12:14,640
Speaker 3: So like, let's be honest, you know, also about the

1498
01:12:14,680 --> 01:12:17,360
Speaker 3: political dynamics. But to return to kind of something you

1499
01:12:17,400 --> 01:12:19,080
Speaker 3: were saying earlier, and this is where I see it,

1500
01:12:19,200 --> 01:12:21,960
Speaker 3: Grand Platner going viral for people are being lied to.

1501
01:12:22,280 --> 01:12:24,880
Speaker 1: Guys. We live in a country with finite amount of resources.

1502
01:12:24,960 --> 01:12:27,799
Speaker 3: To say it's a lie that massive amounts of illegals

1503
01:12:27,880 --> 01:12:31,320
Speaker 3: are not going to tax the system is ridiculous. It's

1504
01:12:31,600 --> 01:12:33,880
Speaker 3: ridiculous to say you can allow ten to fifteen million

1505
01:12:33,880 --> 01:12:36,080
Speaker 3: people into a country over a four year period and

1506
01:12:36,120 --> 01:12:38,240
Speaker 3: it's not gonna have some crazy effect, especially when the

1507
01:12:38,280 --> 01:12:41,120
Speaker 3: absolute vast majority of them are non skilled, don't speak

1508
01:12:41,120 --> 01:12:43,360
Speaker 3: any English, and are not going to integrate into our

1509
01:12:43,360 --> 01:12:46,040
Speaker 3: society on a very easy basis. If we just grant

1510
01:12:46,040 --> 01:12:48,000
Speaker 3: them all citizenship, every single one of them is going

1511
01:12:48,040 --> 01:12:50,320
Speaker 3: to be on welfare. And so the point is, it's like,

1512
01:12:50,560 --> 01:12:53,240
Speaker 3: you can't just live in a world crystal. If twenty

1513
01:12:53,240 --> 01:12:55,040
Speaker 3: three percent of the people, If twenty three percent of

1514
01:12:55,080 --> 01:12:57,640
Speaker 3: the people enter the country illegally, don't speak English and

1515
01:12:57,640 --> 01:12:59,400
Speaker 3: don't have a high school diploma, what's gonna happen.

1516
01:12:59,400 --> 01:13:00,559
Speaker 1: They're gonna endup on welfare.

1517
01:13:00,600 --> 01:13:02,720
Speaker 3: Look at the statistics of our own population in that

1518
01:13:02,760 --> 01:13:04,040
Speaker 3: group who end up on welfare.

1519
01:13:04,120 --> 01:13:04,679
Speaker 1: It's huge.

1520
01:13:04,920 --> 01:13:07,160
Speaker 3: That's listen, not saying they're bad people. We got to

1521
01:13:07,160 --> 01:13:09,240
Speaker 3: take care of our own first. It is actually a

1522
01:13:09,240 --> 01:13:11,600
Speaker 3: world of finite resources. I mean, I know there was

1523
01:13:11,640 --> 01:13:14,800
Speaker 3: this whole discussion about e RS. Yeah, it's crazy that

1524
01:13:14,880 --> 01:13:17,400
Speaker 3: you allow all these people here illegally and they get

1525
01:13:17,479 --> 01:13:19,800
Speaker 3: hit by a car by the way, with no insurance,

1526
01:13:20,040 --> 01:13:22,719
Speaker 3: and then who's all footing the bill in these r rooms.

1527
01:13:22,920 --> 01:13:26,720
Speaker 3: It's all of us. They don't deserve my healthcare dollars.

1528
01:13:27,080 --> 01:13:31,920
Speaker 2: Sorry, that's the reason why you need an actual system.

1529
01:13:31,800 --> 01:13:35,840
Speaker 3: That works system these people to have citizenship.

1530
01:13:35,920 --> 01:13:41,639
Speaker 1: And I say no because a million But exactly this.

1531
01:13:41,640 --> 01:13:45,519
Speaker 2: Is the fundamental question strength of our country. They they

1532
01:13:45,560 --> 01:13:51,719
Speaker 2: are liberty people like these people the Statue of liberty.

1533
01:13:51,800 --> 01:13:55,599
Speaker 2: Quote by the way, again, by the way, the American

1534
01:13:55,600 --> 01:13:56,680
Speaker 2: people agree with me.

1535
01:13:57,200 --> 01:13:57,759
Speaker 4: Ask them.

1536
01:13:57,800 --> 01:14:02,080
Speaker 2: Even at the even at the peak of anti immigrant hysteria,

1537
01:14:02,680 --> 01:14:05,280
Speaker 2: people still said that immigrants are a.

1538
01:14:05,320 --> 01:14:10,200
Speaker 4: Net benefits these people in together. Is there a limit,

1539
01:14:10,400 --> 01:14:12,120
Speaker 4: yes to you know the numbers exactly?

1540
01:14:12,160 --> 01:14:12,679
Speaker 1: So what's coming?

1541
01:14:12,760 --> 01:14:14,519
Speaker 4: Of course do I know. I don't know what the

1542
01:14:14,520 --> 01:14:15,000
Speaker 4: limit is.

1543
01:14:15,080 --> 01:14:17,680
Speaker 2: But I can tell you that we have the capacity

1544
01:14:17,960 --> 01:14:21,719
Speaker 2: to absorb a large number of people into this country.

1545
01:14:21,960 --> 01:14:24,160
Speaker 2: And if you have people out of the shadows, they're

1546
01:14:24,160 --> 01:14:27,000
Speaker 2: not having their labor rights abused and violated, they're not

1547
01:14:27,040 --> 01:14:28,839
Speaker 2: being undercut in terms of their wages.

1548
01:14:29,080 --> 01:14:30,280
Speaker 4: They're able to pay.

1549
01:14:30,360 --> 01:14:33,400
Speaker 2: And by the way, most undocumented immigrants at least until

1550
01:14:33,439 --> 01:14:35,400
Speaker 2: now we're paying taxes. Now they're afraid that they're going

1551
01:14:35,439 --> 01:14:37,880
Speaker 2: to be like swept up in a deportation rate because.

1552
01:14:37,880 --> 01:14:40,920
Speaker 3: Is it enough for the government services that they cannume.

1553
01:14:40,520 --> 01:14:44,280
Speaker 2: It is, yes, soccer again, go look at the studies.

1554
01:14:44,320 --> 01:14:47,599
Speaker 4: Don't just make stuff up. I'm not. I mean, it's true,

1555
01:14:47,640 --> 01:14:49,280
Speaker 4: they can much more.

1556
01:14:49,520 --> 01:14:51,600
Speaker 1: Endless society.

1557
01:14:52,800 --> 01:14:55,280
Speaker 3: US studies to support many of these, there are also

1558
01:14:55,400 --> 01:14:56,360
Speaker 3: endless numbers and.

1559
01:14:56,560 --> 01:14:58,400
Speaker 4: Studies that show just dismiss out of.

1560
01:14:58,479 --> 01:15:00,640
Speaker 3: I mean, same with you. No, I'm but this is

1561
01:15:00,680 --> 01:15:03,400
Speaker 3: the frustration. This is again how we got here. If

1562
01:15:03,400 --> 01:15:06,599
Speaker 3: the only option is mass citizenship, a lot of people

1563
01:15:06,600 --> 01:15:07,639
Speaker 3: are going to say, fuck.

1564
01:15:07,400 --> 01:15:09,599
Speaker 4: It, then let's go with the Blackhawk helicopters because we're

1565
01:15:09,600 --> 01:15:12,720
Speaker 4: just gonna and they get to.

1566
01:15:12,800 --> 01:15:16,200
Speaker 2: Vote at the absence of an alternative vision where you're saying,

1567
01:15:16,200 --> 01:15:18,640
Speaker 2: you know what, the problem isn't the immigrant, it's the billionaire.

1568
01:15:18,800 --> 01:15:21,679
Speaker 2: It's the people who are robbing you blind and rigging

1569
01:15:21,720 --> 01:15:23,680
Speaker 2: the system and stealing your electricity and.

1570
01:15:23,720 --> 01:15:24,920
Speaker 4: Hiking up your electricity both.

1571
01:15:26,120 --> 01:15:29,080
Speaker 2: If you think that alternative vision, then yes you're right,

1572
01:15:29,240 --> 01:15:31,000
Speaker 2: But then you do have a lot of large number

1573
01:15:31,000 --> 01:15:33,760
Speaker 2: of people say the problem is you know, the Venezuelan

1574
01:15:33,880 --> 01:15:36,880
Speaker 2: migrant who came in and they're you know, they're stealing

1575
01:15:36,920 --> 01:15:38,720
Speaker 2: the housing or whatever, or they're eating the cats and

1576
01:15:38,760 --> 01:15:41,799
Speaker 2: the dogs. Yes, they will be open to that message,

1577
01:15:41,920 --> 01:15:44,000
Speaker 2: but it is not a correct message. And so if

1578
01:15:44,080 --> 01:15:46,519
Speaker 2: you actually have a vision on the other side that

1579
01:15:46,680 --> 01:15:49,280
Speaker 2: is compelling to people, that is the only way that

1580
01:15:49,360 --> 01:15:51,200
Speaker 2: you fight back against this. That's why I say that

1581
01:15:51,280 --> 01:15:54,240
Speaker 2: it is a center left failure. Yes, that led to

1582
01:15:54,360 --> 01:15:58,600
Speaker 2: this by offering no other explanation and broadly caving to

1583
01:15:58,840 --> 01:16:01,720
Speaker 2: the worldview of the Trumps. So that's how you end

1584
01:16:01,840 --> 01:16:06,240
Speaker 2: up with Steven Miller and Trump and this truly fascist

1585
01:16:06,320 --> 01:16:11,400
Speaker 2: assault on cities and states and in communities and lawless

1586
01:16:11,560 --> 01:16:14,599
Speaker 2: chaos that is vastly more dangerous and more violent than

1587
01:16:14,680 --> 01:16:16,559
Speaker 2: anything that I've seen from any undocumented I.

1588
01:16:16,680 --> 01:16:19,280
Speaker 3: Just think that it very much absolves much of the

1589
01:16:19,360 --> 01:16:22,280
Speaker 3: far left who's forced every candidate to raise their hand

1590
01:16:22,320 --> 01:16:24,720
Speaker 3: and say we should have health care for all illegals.

1591
01:16:25,040 --> 01:16:27,080
Speaker 4: That health care for everyone.

1592
01:16:27,280 --> 01:16:30,160
Speaker 2: I mean, that's so you think that the other thing

1593
01:16:30,400 --> 01:16:33,120
Speaker 2: is soccer that No, that's the other thing is that

1594
01:16:33,760 --> 01:16:37,320
Speaker 2: when you have a neoliberal system where yes, not everybody

1595
01:16:37,360 --> 01:16:39,240
Speaker 2: has health care, that is also going to make people

1596
01:16:39,320 --> 01:16:42,320
Speaker 2: much more receptive to like, see that person who's showing

1597
01:16:42,360 --> 01:16:43,400
Speaker 2: up in the emergency room.

1598
01:16:43,479 --> 01:16:44,640
Speaker 4: They're getting healthcare.

1599
01:16:44,360 --> 01:16:47,080
Speaker 2: And you're not, which is why I yeah, but that's

1600
01:16:47,200 --> 01:16:50,559
Speaker 2: why I support universal health care. That's why I support

1601
01:16:50,680 --> 01:16:53,960
Speaker 2: higher wages. That's why I support union rights, That's why

1602
01:16:54,000 --> 01:16:57,400
Speaker 2: I support universal pre K, That's why I support affordable daycare.

1603
01:16:57,840 --> 01:17:01,479
Speaker 2: So that people don't feel this sense of we're all

1604
01:17:01,720 --> 01:17:04,000
Speaker 2: you know, it's every man for himself and we're all

1605
01:17:04,040 --> 01:17:05,400
Speaker 2: scrapping against each other.

1606
01:17:05,720 --> 01:17:08,519
Speaker 4: Where people are doing fine and have.

1607
01:17:08,640 --> 01:17:11,519
Speaker 2: The right to those resources themselves, then they are much

1608
01:17:11,640 --> 01:17:15,240
Speaker 2: more much less likely to find the message of immigrant

1609
01:17:15,280 --> 01:17:16,519
Speaker 2: scapegoating to be appealing.

1610
01:17:16,760 --> 01:17:19,000
Speaker 3: Again, there is not a single social welfare state in

1611
01:17:19,040 --> 01:17:21,519
Speaker 3: the world that exists with a massive open border in

1612
01:17:21,560 --> 01:17:25,240
Speaker 3: illegalized population. All of the welfare systems that you're describing

1613
01:17:25,560 --> 01:17:30,240
Speaker 3: have very tight borders. Norway, Scandinavia, Denmark they have natural

1614
01:17:30,400 --> 01:17:34,439
Speaker 3: and massive assimilation assimilative programs for example, and den I mean,

1615
01:17:34,600 --> 01:17:36,519
Speaker 3: if that's the type of society you want, fine, Like

1616
01:17:36,800 --> 01:17:39,240
Speaker 3: in Denmark they literally ban you, I believe as children

1617
01:17:39,280 --> 01:17:41,240
Speaker 3: from wearing a hijab because they're like, hey, that's not

1618
01:17:41,320 --> 01:17:42,680
Speaker 3: who you are. If you're gonna come here and you're

1619
01:17:42,680 --> 01:17:44,200
Speaker 3: gonna get our services and you're gonna be a citizen,

1620
01:17:44,320 --> 01:17:47,200
Speaker 3: then that's going to come with a huge number of responsibilities.

1621
01:17:47,280 --> 01:17:49,160
Speaker 3: I don't think most people want to sign up for that.

1622
01:17:49,520 --> 01:17:51,559
Speaker 3: And so we live in a world of finite resources.

1623
01:17:51,600 --> 01:17:54,120
Speaker 3: You can't just have a system where everybody gets healthcare,

1624
01:17:54,160 --> 01:17:57,920
Speaker 3: including vast numbers of illegals like this is again I

1625
01:17:58,439 --> 01:18:01,040
Speaker 3: think that this message is deep damaging. I see the

1626
01:18:01,080 --> 01:18:03,679
Speaker 3: grand Platners of the world going for it. Maybe it'll

1627
01:18:03,720 --> 01:18:06,640
Speaker 3: work in main I have no idea, but at the

1628
01:18:06,760 --> 01:18:08,679
Speaker 3: end of the day, the rubber will meet the road

1629
01:18:08,760 --> 01:18:10,760
Speaker 3: with the actual proposal. And if you're just going to

1630
01:18:10,840 --> 01:18:14,599
Speaker 3: mass legalize and grant mass numbers of social services to people,

1631
01:18:14,960 --> 01:18:17,080
Speaker 3: I mean, first of all, I mean in an un

1632
01:18:17,160 --> 01:18:19,400
Speaker 3: ironic way, somebody does have to pay for it, like

1633
01:18:19,520 --> 01:18:22,639
Speaker 3: for real, it can't just be quote tax billionaires or whatever,

1634
01:18:23,040 --> 01:18:26,160
Speaker 3: because I mean, with the way that our taxation structure works,

1635
01:18:26,400 --> 01:18:29,240
Speaker 3: it will have to ultimately come from some middle, upper

1636
01:18:29,280 --> 01:18:31,360
Speaker 3: middle class and others like it quite.

1637
01:18:31,200 --> 01:18:32,960
Speaker 4: Literally could actually tax the risk.

1638
01:18:33,120 --> 01:18:35,479
Speaker 1: It's not gonna happen in oursel. But that's under sixty

1639
01:18:35,600 --> 01:18:37,360
Speaker 1: people in the United states, And what's the.

1640
01:18:37,400 --> 01:18:41,120
Speaker 2: Practicality of what is wildly Listen, you're in terms of

1641
01:18:41,160 --> 01:18:44,720
Speaker 2: the politics is difficult, of course, of course, But is

1642
01:18:44,760 --> 01:18:46,640
Speaker 2: it wildly pop of course yes, if you.

1643
01:18:46,640 --> 01:18:47,880
Speaker 4: Ask people, should we cut that offense?

1644
01:18:48,160 --> 01:18:53,120
Speaker 2: Yeah, money, that's free money, that's cutting the defense department budget.

1645
01:18:53,439 --> 01:18:56,720
Speaker 2: And then yes, we just had a massive tax cut

1646
01:18:56,880 --> 01:18:59,840
Speaker 2: for the rich. Just give that back as a starter.

1647
01:19:00,280 --> 01:19:02,599
Speaker 2: You know, you can't tell me that every other develop

1648
01:19:02,680 --> 01:19:05,320
Speaker 2: nation around the world can afford universal healthcare and we can't.

1649
01:19:05,360 --> 01:19:05,880
Speaker 4: For some reason.

1650
01:19:05,960 --> 01:19:08,400
Speaker 1: We absolutely can, right we can? Could I say?

1651
01:19:08,920 --> 01:19:11,599
Speaker 2: My vision for that society, the way that things are

1652
01:19:11,640 --> 01:19:15,120
Speaker 2: distributed is so wildly unequal. Even if we just did

1653
01:19:15,240 --> 01:19:18,599
Speaker 2: a little bit, we would be in such a better place.

1654
01:19:19,000 --> 01:19:21,880
Speaker 2: So in any case, to get back to the core

1655
01:19:22,080 --> 01:19:25,559
Speaker 2: of this thing, I mean, I think there is Listen,

1656
01:19:25,800 --> 01:19:27,600
Speaker 2: do I know what the political fallout will be?

1657
01:19:28,040 --> 01:19:28,479
Speaker 4: I don't.

1658
01:19:28,680 --> 01:19:31,360
Speaker 2: But the thing that scares me the most is you

1659
01:19:31,520 --> 01:19:33,680
Speaker 2: think that they believe this is political win. I think

1660
01:19:33,720 --> 01:19:36,160
Speaker 2: they don't care because I think they feel like they

1661
01:19:36,240 --> 01:19:39,040
Speaker 2: are really going They are going for it right now,

1662
01:19:39,240 --> 01:19:43,120
Speaker 2: like they are going for labeling Democrats as domestic terrorists,

1663
01:19:43,160 --> 01:19:46,200
Speaker 2: crushing descent, surveiling social media there's a story about how

1664
01:19:46,200 --> 01:19:50,120
Speaker 2: they're putting together social media surveillance team using palenteer, you know,

1665
01:19:50,280 --> 01:19:53,639
Speaker 2: scaring any sort of like comedian and installing Barry Weiss's

1666
01:19:53,800 --> 01:19:55,160
Speaker 2: editor in chief at CBS.

1667
01:19:55,200 --> 01:19:57,040
Speaker 4: I mean they are going for it.

1668
01:19:57,520 --> 01:20:01,000
Speaker 2: And so in a sense like obvious, what's happening with

1669
01:20:01,240 --> 01:20:03,840
Speaker 2: ice in these cities and with federal agents in these cities.

1670
01:20:03,920 --> 01:20:05,120
Speaker 4: Obviously that is about.

1671
01:20:04,920 --> 01:20:07,519
Speaker 2: Immigration, but I also don't think it is mostly about

1672
01:20:07,680 --> 01:20:10,360
Speaker 2: Is it is about more than immigration as well? I

1673
01:20:10,400 --> 01:20:13,320
Speaker 2: don't because it's it really is a sort of all

1674
01:20:13,479 --> 01:20:17,320
Speaker 2: out assault on our rights, on our First Amendment rights,

1675
01:20:17,360 --> 01:20:20,960
Speaker 2: on our ability to protest, freedom of association, freedom from

1676
01:20:21,040 --> 01:20:23,800
Speaker 2: unreasonable searchencies. You're like, all of those things are under

1677
01:20:23,840 --> 01:20:25,320
Speaker 2: attack right now, and it's by design.

1678
01:20:25,400 --> 01:20:27,040
Speaker 3: I know the producers are going, We're going to be

1679
01:20:27,080 --> 01:20:28,600
Speaker 3: mad because I'm dragging this on. But I think this

1680
01:20:28,720 --> 01:20:32,360
Speaker 3: is the fundamental sect question of our day. If you

1681
01:20:32,439 --> 01:20:34,000
Speaker 3: were the left, how are you going to handle if

1682
01:20:34,040 --> 01:20:36,280
Speaker 3: the Democrats come in power? Wouldn't you do the same thing?

1683
01:20:36,680 --> 01:20:37,240
Speaker 1: At this point?

1684
01:20:37,360 --> 01:20:37,800
Speaker 4: What do you mean?

1685
01:20:38,000 --> 01:20:40,600
Speaker 3: So, I mean what I send in the National Guards? No,

1686
01:20:40,800 --> 01:20:43,040
Speaker 3: I mean, well, not not that, but I mean, isn't

1687
01:20:43,040 --> 01:20:44,400
Speaker 3: Stephen Miller going to be prosecuted.

1688
01:20:44,439 --> 01:20:45,040
Speaker 4: Well he should be.

1689
01:20:45,160 --> 01:20:46,200
Speaker 1: But see this is my point.

1690
01:20:46,520 --> 01:20:47,400
Speaker 4: He's for them.

1691
01:20:47,760 --> 01:20:50,240
Speaker 3: But yeah, but now we're feeding into the same culture

1692
01:20:50,320 --> 01:20:53,479
Speaker 3: of of this is now the same, it's going to

1693
01:20:53,479 --> 01:20:54,639
Speaker 3: be the same law fare.

1694
01:20:54,880 --> 01:20:57,800
Speaker 2: If you are living people's rights, yeah, and you are

1695
01:20:57,840 --> 01:20:58,559
Speaker 2: breaking the law.

1696
01:20:58,760 --> 01:21:00,280
Speaker 4: Do I think you should go to people how.

1697
01:21:00,200 --> 01:21:00,960
Speaker 1: They saw it on the truck?

1698
01:21:01,080 --> 01:21:01,200
Speaker 3: Right?

1699
01:21:01,320 --> 01:21:03,040
Speaker 1: Is you have January sixth prisoners or all?

1700
01:21:03,320 --> 01:21:06,439
Speaker 3: Listen, I'm not I'm representing a worldview where you have

1701
01:21:06,560 --> 01:21:09,639
Speaker 3: liberal institutions which are assaulting us. You're trying to plug

1702
01:21:09,720 --> 01:21:12,400
Speaker 3: our children full of hormones. You are have an all

1703
01:21:12,479 --> 01:21:15,880
Speaker 3: out takeover our institutions. You flooded our country with ten

1704
01:21:15,920 --> 01:21:18,880
Speaker 3: to fifteen million illegals. So fuck it, let's go for it.

1705
01:21:18,960 --> 01:21:22,360
Speaker 3: I mean, isn't that what the next democratic administration? Aren't

1706
01:21:22,360 --> 01:21:23,559
Speaker 3: you going to do the exact same thing.

1707
01:21:23,880 --> 01:21:26,320
Speaker 1: That's that's my view. Trump, JD and all of them,

1708
01:21:26,720 --> 01:21:28,240
Speaker 1: all of their staff. Good luck.

1709
01:21:28,280 --> 01:21:30,040
Speaker 3: You're going to be buried in the legal paperwork and

1710
01:21:30,120 --> 01:21:32,160
Speaker 3: probably much more because the Libs are actually good at it.

1711
01:21:32,640 --> 01:21:34,240
Speaker 3: You know you're going to if you're a red state,

1712
01:21:34,240 --> 01:21:36,559
Speaker 3: you're probably gonna have your shit cut, right, this new

1713
01:21:36,600 --> 01:21:38,720
Speaker 3: popularization of I think so.

1714
01:21:38,760 --> 01:21:41,360
Speaker 2: I mean, I mean, if they haven't gets elected, for sure,

1715
01:21:42,040 --> 01:21:44,479
Speaker 2: I wish that I had the faith that you do

1716
01:21:44,760 --> 01:21:47,519
Speaker 2: that Democrats are going to have the backbone to actually

1717
01:21:47,840 --> 01:21:51,240
Speaker 2: lock up the criminals that exist in this administration. I mean,

1718
01:21:51,320 --> 01:21:54,599
Speaker 2: these people who are pulling naked children onto their beds

1719
01:21:54,600 --> 01:21:56,000
Speaker 2: and being zipped. Yes, I think they should be in

1720
01:21:56,040 --> 01:21:58,320
Speaker 2: the present works on the republic.

1721
01:21:59,240 --> 01:22:01,160
Speaker 1: Let rape this into the country. You should be elite.

1722
01:22:02,680 --> 01:22:03,519
Speaker 1: That's the same.

1723
01:22:03,760 --> 01:22:07,800
Speaker 2: Image had the Biden administration procedure. You may not have

1724
01:22:08,000 --> 01:22:11,679
Speaker 2: liked it, but it was done. But these were legal

1725
01:22:12,000 --> 01:22:16,599
Speaker 2: provisions that allowed undocummars. Most many of the immigrants who

1726
01:22:16,640 --> 01:22:18,640
Speaker 2: came in were through Temporary Protective Stact and.

1727
01:22:20,560 --> 01:22:22,320
Speaker 1: Come up with any way.

1728
01:22:22,880 --> 01:22:25,640
Speaker 2: People have a right to apply for asylum that is

1729
01:22:25,760 --> 01:22:27,400
Speaker 2: consistent with the law.

1730
01:22:27,920 --> 01:22:29,600
Speaker 4: You do not have a right to.

1731
01:22:29,800 --> 01:22:34,080
Speaker 2: Violate Americans, let alone immigrants, but Americans do process rights.

1732
01:22:34,120 --> 01:22:35,920
Speaker 2: You do not have a right to pull children with

1733
01:22:36,040 --> 01:22:37,920
Speaker 2: no warrn out of their beds in the middle of

1734
01:22:37,960 --> 01:22:39,559
Speaker 2: the night and zip tied them together and throw them

1735
01:22:39,600 --> 01:22:41,280
Speaker 2: in your hall band. You do not have a right

1736
01:22:41,520 --> 01:22:44,439
Speaker 2: to hold American citizens three days, no lawyer, no warrant,

1737
01:22:44,640 --> 01:22:46,120
Speaker 2: no phone call, no nothing.

1738
01:22:46,360 --> 01:22:47,240
Speaker 4: You do not have a right.

1739
01:22:47,240 --> 01:22:49,560
Speaker 2: I mean many of the like you know, some of

1740
01:22:49,600 --> 01:22:52,200
Speaker 2: the things that happen under Doge continue to have been

1741
01:22:52,240 --> 01:22:53,040
Speaker 2: deemed illegal.

1742
01:22:53,120 --> 01:22:54,160
Speaker 4: So yes, where.

1743
01:22:54,000 --> 01:22:57,920
Speaker 2: Criminal acts occurred, there should absolutely be accountability. There should

1744
01:22:58,000 --> 01:23:00,760
Speaker 2: absolutely be accountability. And I'm not going to buy this,

1745
01:23:00,960 --> 01:23:03,280
Speaker 2: like what about ism? Oh well, the you know Democrats

1746
01:23:03,320 --> 01:23:06,400
Speaker 2: did thing Republicans didn't like. Yes, if they were criminal, yes,

1747
01:23:06,479 --> 01:23:08,360
Speaker 2: prosecute fine prosecuting.

1748
01:23:08,040 --> 01:23:08,760
Speaker 1: Well, you could come up with.

1749
01:23:08,880 --> 01:23:10,479
Speaker 3: Look, I mean, isn't that one of the lessons this

1750
01:23:10,560 --> 01:23:11,839
Speaker 3: admin is that the government company?

1751
01:23:11,880 --> 01:23:12,400
Speaker 4: Will you agree?

1752
01:23:12,479 --> 01:23:14,800
Speaker 2: But let me ask you this, Do you really think

1753
01:23:15,280 --> 01:23:20,360
Speaker 2: there was anything that was equivalent two black Hawk helicopters

1754
01:23:20,760 --> 01:23:22,920
Speaker 2: raiding an apartment building in the middle of the night

1755
01:23:23,040 --> 01:23:25,680
Speaker 2: and pulling out people. And I mean just the like

1756
01:23:25,960 --> 01:23:27,720
Speaker 2: lawlessness of this is a disagreement.

1757
01:23:27,840 --> 01:23:30,320
Speaker 3: I think that their border was actually just as lawless.

1758
01:23:30,439 --> 01:23:33,080
Speaker 3: They impeached my orcis over it. It was a genuine

1759
01:23:33,160 --> 01:23:35,599
Speaker 3: criminal act at a political level where I mean, look,

1760
01:23:35,640 --> 01:23:36,439
Speaker 3: I could hit it back.

1761
01:23:36,560 --> 01:23:38,640
Speaker 1: Kavanaugh stops are legal now unto the Supreme Court. I

1762
01:23:38,680 --> 01:23:39,760
Speaker 1: don't agree with it, but it is.

1763
01:23:40,160 --> 01:23:43,280
Speaker 3: Kavanaugh stop means that you can briefly detain a US

1764
01:23:43,280 --> 01:23:45,840
Speaker 3: citizen for whatever period of Yeah, but it's legal. It's

1765
01:23:45,880 --> 01:23:48,040
Speaker 3: under the US Supreme Court. So is it illegal, Well,

1766
01:23:48,200 --> 01:23:50,240
Speaker 3: it was on the show. You can say it's an ad.

1767
01:23:50,600 --> 01:23:50,800
Speaker 6: It was.

1768
01:23:50,920 --> 01:23:52,160
Speaker 4: I mean it was on the Shadow Dog.

1769
01:23:52,200 --> 01:23:54,160
Speaker 2: It hasn't officially been ruled on the merits, but yes,

1770
01:23:54,280 --> 01:23:57,240
Speaker 2: it allowed them to proceed with overt racial profiling, which

1771
01:23:57,439 --> 01:23:58,560
Speaker 2: is part of autos.

1772
01:23:58,680 --> 01:23:59,360
Speaker 1: Right, that's my point.

1773
01:23:59,400 --> 01:24:02,000
Speaker 3: And so they don't come up with a justification for anything, right,

1774
01:24:02,280 --> 01:24:03,400
Speaker 3: oh's all asylum.

1775
01:24:03,479 --> 01:24:04,879
Speaker 1: It's like, well, you know, I don't.

1776
01:24:04,680 --> 01:24:05,479
Speaker 4: Say not really.

1777
01:24:05,600 --> 01:24:08,160
Speaker 3: I'm only pointing out though that if that is going

1778
01:24:08,240 --> 01:24:11,040
Speaker 3: to be the posture of the Democratic base and probably

1779
01:24:11,200 --> 01:24:14,479
Speaker 3: the next Democratic administration, then it is kind of a

1780
01:24:14,600 --> 01:24:15,680
Speaker 3: mirror image of each other.

1781
01:24:16,040 --> 01:24:17,960
Speaker 1: And so for them, I mean, they're not dumb. They

1782
01:24:18,000 --> 01:24:19,760
Speaker 1: can see all of this in their mind. It was

1783
01:24:19,840 --> 01:24:20,679
Speaker 1: go time anyways.

1784
01:24:21,000 --> 01:24:23,880
Speaker 3: But if you're a Democrat, why wouldn't you now believe

1785
01:24:23,960 --> 01:24:25,720
Speaker 3: the same thing. So it seems to me like an

1786
01:24:25,760 --> 01:24:28,040
Speaker 3: analyst race to the bottle, Like if Gavin Newsom gets elected,

1787
01:24:28,160 --> 01:24:29,639
Speaker 3: wouldn't you deny funding to Texas?

1788
01:24:29,640 --> 01:24:32,599
Speaker 4: And a hurricane you came out? I think you will

1789
01:24:32,640 --> 01:24:33,360
Speaker 4: see this society.

1790
01:24:33,439 --> 01:24:37,400
Speaker 2: I totally disagree with this, as much as I despise

1791
01:24:37,640 --> 01:24:40,360
Speaker 2: the Trump regime, as much as I despise Stephen Miller,

1792
01:24:40,400 --> 01:24:43,960
Speaker 2: as much as I disagree with people individual people who

1793
01:24:44,120 --> 01:24:46,720
Speaker 2: voted for Trump this time around. I want them to

1794
01:24:46,880 --> 01:24:48,760
Speaker 2: have health care. I want them to have preschool. No,

1795
01:24:49,080 --> 01:24:50,960
Speaker 2: I want them to have you know, And this is

1796
01:24:51,560 --> 01:24:54,360
Speaker 2: the view of the left broadly, right.

1797
01:24:54,520 --> 01:24:54,960
Speaker 4: I don't.

1798
01:24:55,080 --> 01:24:57,519
Speaker 2: Now do I see, like you know, it being an issue. Yes,

1799
01:24:57,560 --> 01:24:59,559
Speaker 2: Steven Miller should be locked that sort of stuff. Yes,

1800
01:25:00,240 --> 01:25:02,640
Speaker 2: the we're going to go to war with Texas and

1801
01:25:02,720 --> 01:25:05,400
Speaker 2: deny people healthcare? No, I don't. I don't see that

1802
01:25:05,520 --> 01:25:08,160
Speaker 2: at all. I thoroughly reject that. I think that is

1803
01:25:08,200 --> 01:25:11,920
Speaker 2: anathema to any sort of politics that I would believe

1804
01:25:11,960 --> 01:25:12,840
Speaker 2: in whatsoever.

1805
01:25:13,280 --> 01:25:15,960
Speaker 4: And that is genuinely a race to the bottom, now,

1806
01:25:16,240 --> 01:25:17,960
Speaker 4: you know is No, I don't.

1807
01:25:17,840 --> 01:25:20,400
Speaker 3: Question your sincerity at all. I mean, listen, I don't

1808
01:25:20,439 --> 01:25:22,720
Speaker 3: disagree with half of this stuff. But the level of

1809
01:25:22,800 --> 01:25:27,040
Speaker 3: vindictiveness I'm watching bubble about truth and reconciliation post Trump,

1810
01:25:27,520 --> 01:25:31,200
Speaker 3: it almost makes me understand the Trump behavior more because

1811
01:25:31,280 --> 01:25:33,639
Speaker 3: for them, they're like, if this, if we were already here,

1812
01:25:34,080 --> 01:25:35,679
Speaker 3: they have to go because to them.

1813
01:25:35,680 --> 01:25:38,479
Speaker 2: I think it's like ac I think, I genuinely think

1814
01:25:38,560 --> 01:25:41,840
Speaker 2: that is projection of like the way that this administration

1815
01:25:42,040 --> 01:25:46,480
Speaker 2: operates on you know, the Democratic base and Democratic lawmakers.

1816
01:25:46,600 --> 01:25:49,000
Speaker 4: And I mean, so you think I like that to

1817
01:25:49,320 --> 01:25:49,800
Speaker 4: their bible.

1818
01:25:50,160 --> 01:25:53,080
Speaker 2: They didn't even get their acts together to charge Trump

1819
01:25:53,479 --> 01:25:56,519
Speaker 2: with a coup in time for the thing to go

1820
01:25:56,640 --> 01:25:58,800
Speaker 2: to court. Right, that's who we're talking about here.

1821
01:25:58,880 --> 01:26:03,040
Speaker 1: Yeah, but aren't you mad about that? They wanted him

1822
01:26:03,040 --> 01:26:03,679
Speaker 1: to be prosecuted.

1823
01:26:03,760 --> 01:26:06,880
Speaker 4: Yes, and he should have been, But that's a different thing.

1824
01:26:08,600 --> 01:26:11,439
Speaker 2: That Texas shouldn't get hurricane funding or they should, you know,

1825
01:26:11,560 --> 01:26:14,639
Speaker 2: the people of Oklahoma or wherever should be like screwed

1826
01:26:14,680 --> 01:26:17,840
Speaker 2: and you know, uh, and there should be retribution against

1827
01:26:17,880 --> 01:26:19,880
Speaker 2: them and their funding pulled, which is things that this

1828
01:26:20,040 --> 01:26:23,120
Speaker 2: administration has done. Because for example, Janet Mills and Maine

1829
01:26:23,120 --> 01:26:26,000
Speaker 2: said something he didn't like about trans gender kids and sports.

1830
01:26:26,400 --> 01:26:27,600
Speaker 4: No, I see, I do.

1831
01:26:27,880 --> 01:26:29,720
Speaker 2: I can't say I see zero appetite for that. But

1832
01:26:29,800 --> 01:26:32,320
Speaker 2: that is not a widely held view whatsoever. And like

1833
01:26:32,360 --> 01:26:35,120
Speaker 2: I said, it's anathema to any sort of actual left

1834
01:26:35,360 --> 01:26:36,040
Speaker 2: kind of apology.

1835
01:26:36,080 --> 01:26:37,800
Speaker 3: I agree, but you're talking about the left and not

1836
01:26:37,920 --> 01:26:41,200
Speaker 3: the Democrats, because see, I don't know I think people

1837
01:26:41,240 --> 01:26:43,799
Speaker 3: are mad, and I see with the base with Gavin,

1838
01:26:43,880 --> 01:26:46,240
Speaker 3: the way that people are quote fighting back. I think

1839
01:26:46,320 --> 01:26:49,080
Speaker 3: a lot of vindictiveness is coming back. I mean, look, Trump,

1840
01:26:49,280 --> 01:26:50,960
Speaker 3: for all of his faults, he broke the glass on

1841
01:26:51,040 --> 01:26:53,720
Speaker 3: a lot of long standing norms in politics. I still

1842
01:26:53,760 --> 01:26:56,880
Speaker 3: think this is the central question because it informs so

1843
01:26:57,080 --> 01:26:59,479
Speaker 3: much of the way that our current government is behaving.

1844
01:26:59,560 --> 01:27:02,280
Speaker 3: To them, they thought that the glass was broken in

1845
01:27:02,520 --> 01:27:05,679
Speaker 3: under Biden, where yes, they incompetently indicted Trump or whatever,

1846
01:27:05,720 --> 01:27:06,719
Speaker 3: but they still indicted Trump.

1847
01:27:06,800 --> 01:27:08,920
Speaker 1: To them, that's like Banana republic shit. So they're like,

1848
01:27:08,960 --> 01:27:09,360
Speaker 1: if we're.

1849
01:27:09,240 --> 01:27:11,920
Speaker 3: Going to open the door, then let's let's be Banana Republic, right,

1850
01:27:12,080 --> 01:27:14,360
Speaker 3: And so that is all starting to that's all.

1851
01:27:14,280 --> 01:27:15,320
Speaker 1: Starting to become the feedback.

1852
01:27:15,360 --> 01:27:19,080
Speaker 4: I'm sure I'm not even justifying, but I just actual reality.

1853
01:27:19,280 --> 01:27:21,560
Speaker 2: Like Trump tried to cool the government she should have

1854
01:27:21,600 --> 01:27:23,160
Speaker 2: been in for they should have been banned from running

1855
01:27:23,160 --> 01:27:26,040
Speaker 2: for election again. And so to equate that with like

1856
01:27:26,400 --> 01:27:29,640
Speaker 2: I didn't like Biden's asylum policy, we.

1857
01:27:29,720 --> 01:27:32,360
Speaker 3: Are minimizing it because you don't disagree with the policy, right,

1858
01:27:32,479 --> 01:27:34,080
Speaker 3: I could flip it around. I mean, look, at the

1859
01:27:34,160 --> 01:27:36,320
Speaker 3: end of the day, like I oppose the impeachment or

1860
01:27:36,360 --> 01:27:38,000
Speaker 3: whatever of Donald Trump. I said, you should leave it

1861
01:27:38,080 --> 01:27:40,800
Speaker 3: up to the democratic process, And I mean it's more

1862
01:27:40,840 --> 01:27:44,519
Speaker 3: of an indictment of the Democrats for being unable to

1863
01:27:44,600 --> 01:27:47,479
Speaker 3: beat him in the election. It's just a question to

1864
01:27:47,560 --> 01:27:51,560
Speaker 3: me about where, once things are here, how can it

1865
01:27:51,680 --> 01:27:53,720
Speaker 3: possibly ever go back to normal, because that's kind of

1866
01:27:53,720 --> 01:27:56,599
Speaker 3: what you're saying, don't I don't know if it can. Well,

1867
01:27:56,720 --> 01:27:59,880
Speaker 3: that's part of the reason I feel so desponded. Once

1868
01:28:00,720 --> 01:28:02,439
Speaker 3: we are not going back to the days of Biden,

1869
01:28:02,640 --> 01:28:05,160
Speaker 3: like red state, blue state. I'm not saying we're gonna

1870
01:28:05,160 --> 01:28:06,920
Speaker 3: have a civil war, but we're definitely gonna have a

1871
01:28:07,000 --> 01:28:09,599
Speaker 3: lot more like authoritarian power in the federal government.

1872
01:28:09,720 --> 01:28:12,719
Speaker 2: I mean, we're already at when you're talking about Trump

1873
01:28:12,760 --> 01:28:16,280
Speaker 2: trying to send Texas National Guard into California, Oregon, Chicago.

1874
01:28:16,360 --> 01:28:18,040
Speaker 2: I mean, the only reason is that's not a civil

1875
01:28:18,080 --> 01:28:20,120
Speaker 2: war is because the other side doesn't fight back. Yeah,

1876
01:28:20,160 --> 01:28:21,400
Speaker 2: that's how close to the edge we are.

1877
01:28:21,760 --> 01:28:23,400
Speaker 4: That's where we are, right, So.

1878
01:28:23,439 --> 01:28:25,120
Speaker 3: Why wouldn't that That's what I mean is in the

1879
01:28:25,200 --> 01:28:27,000
Speaker 3: logical conclusion, it's like, oh, well, people are going to

1880
01:28:27,040 --> 01:28:27,640
Speaker 3: start fighting back.

1881
01:28:27,680 --> 01:28:29,200
Speaker 1: I'm like, that's that scares the shit out of me.

1882
01:28:29,280 --> 01:28:31,320
Speaker 1: That's part of what I'm afraid of with.

1883
01:28:31,439 --> 01:28:35,640
Speaker 3: All of this, because everything is just getting all the

1884
01:28:35,720 --> 01:28:38,479
Speaker 3: way up and I don't I don't possibly see an escape.

1885
01:28:38,479 --> 01:28:40,200
Speaker 3: Like if Steven Miller thinks he's going to get indiceted

1886
01:28:40,360 --> 01:28:43,240
Speaker 3: under a future administration, I mean, do you even want

1887
01:28:43,280 --> 01:28:44,640
Speaker 3: there to be a future administration? Now?

1888
01:28:44,680 --> 01:28:47,160
Speaker 2: But that really was that's already what they're going I mean,

1889
01:28:47,200 --> 01:28:49,000
Speaker 2: I think that's already what they're going for. And that's

1890
01:28:49,040 --> 01:28:51,080
Speaker 2: why I look at the you know, I mean, I

1891
01:28:51,479 --> 01:28:54,240
Speaker 2: hope there's something approaching, free and fair elections, et cetera.

1892
01:28:54,360 --> 01:28:57,120
Speaker 2: But I have no confidence that these people have any

1893
01:28:57,160 --> 01:29:00,200
Speaker 2: intention of giving up power. Yeah, Like, there's there's no

1894
01:29:00,280 --> 01:29:02,240
Speaker 2: reason why we should think that. We've already had Trump

1895
01:29:02,360 --> 01:29:04,560
Speaker 2: losing and trying to not give up power, so we

1896
01:29:04,640 --> 01:29:05,320
Speaker 2: have a track record.

1897
01:29:05,360 --> 01:29:07,240
Speaker 1: I could see how you would get there. I don't.

1898
01:29:07,360 --> 01:29:09,160
Speaker 3: I'm not there just because I mean, at the end

1899
01:29:09,160 --> 01:29:10,640
Speaker 3: of the day did leave right, And most of it

1900
01:29:10,760 --> 01:29:12,760
Speaker 3: was a larp Like ninety eight That's another thing that

1901
01:29:12,840 --> 01:29:16,240
Speaker 3: people vastly underestimate. Ninety eight percent of this is quote LARPing,

1902
01:29:16,720 --> 01:29:20,040
Speaker 3: despite the fact that, look, that's curious ramifications obviously for

1903
01:29:20,200 --> 01:29:22,120
Speaker 3: norms and all of that, et cetera. But I do

1904
01:29:22,200 --> 01:29:24,720
Speaker 3: think we should stick with this kind of debate and

1905
01:29:24,960 --> 01:29:27,479
Speaker 3: story because it's it's.

1906
01:29:27,400 --> 01:29:28,439
Speaker 1: All I've been thinking about.

1907
01:29:28,520 --> 01:29:31,439
Speaker 3: I go, once we're here, can you possibly come back?

1908
01:29:31,880 --> 01:29:34,599
Speaker 3: I actually don't know, Like, can we come back from

1909
01:29:34,640 --> 01:29:37,920
Speaker 3: a world of like blue on red warfare? Like literally

1910
01:29:37,960 --> 01:29:41,040
Speaker 3: in terms of states and state power and indicting your

1911
01:29:41,080 --> 01:29:44,000
Speaker 3: other political opponents, you can everyone get debate endlessly about

1912
01:29:44,160 --> 01:29:46,400
Speaker 3: who started it or whatever. Every side is going to

1913
01:29:46,439 --> 01:29:49,920
Speaker 3: see theirs as entirely legitimate, even if you disagree. And

1914
01:29:50,000 --> 01:29:52,280
Speaker 3: it's honestly what scares me the most about where we are.

1915
01:29:52,479 --> 01:29:55,519
Speaker 2: Like with warm and managed to put the pieces back together.

1916
01:29:55,680 --> 01:29:56,960
Speaker 1: It's a long time, a lot.

1917
01:29:56,840 --> 01:29:57,360
Speaker 4: Of long time.

1918
01:29:57,520 --> 01:29:58,519
Speaker 1: Okay, so it's not.

1919
01:29:58,760 --> 01:29:59,000
Speaker 6: It was.

1920
01:29:59,560 --> 01:30:01,200
Speaker 3: The more you read about that, the more you should

1921
01:30:01,200 --> 01:30:04,800
Speaker 3: be afraid of ever possibly getting there in the first place.

1922
01:30:04,880 --> 01:30:06,599
Speaker 1: Okay, should we get to the economy? Are we done?

1923
01:30:06,760 --> 01:30:06,920
Speaker 4: Yes?

1924
01:30:06,960 --> 01:30:07,240
Speaker 1: All right?

1925
01:30:07,320 --> 01:30:08,719
Speaker 4: Well, to be continued